Messages in S-Trains group. Page 1 of 1.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16281 From: Gary Chidester Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Please help.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16282 From: notcoldenough Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Resistance soldering
Group: S-Trains Message: 16283 From: kempfam@aol.com Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Paint
Group: S-Trains Message: 16284 From: crustyfour Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Newbie with a few questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 16285 From: crustyfour Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Newbie questions - dooh!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16286 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: AF Caboose
Group: S-Trains Message: 16287 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: Turntables & Wiring
Group: S-Trains Message: 16288 From: David Dewey Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: Loose AF tender truck rivet bushings
Group: S-Trains Message: 16289 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: Paint
Group: S-Trains Message: 16290 From: David Dewey Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: Paint & touching up
Group: S-Trains Message: 16291 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1262
Group: S-Trains Message: 16292 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: train enamel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16293 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: train enamel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16294 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: train enamel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16295 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: paint
Group: S-Trains Message: 16296 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: train enamel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16297 From: crustyfour Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Newbie question
Group: S-Trains Message: 16298 From: Alex Sibbald Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: 293 tender trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 16299 From: DoUg Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: Newbie question
Group: S-Trains Message: 16300 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1262
Group: S-Trains Message: 16301 From: Steve Blancard Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: Newbie question -summary of responses
Group: S-Trains Message: 16302 From: TCS Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Folks with AOL
Group: S-Trains Message: 16303 From: TWesthelle@aol.com Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Paint Question
Group: S-Trains Message: 16304 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: paint
Group: S-Trains Message: 16305 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: newbie Q
Group: S-Trains Message: 16306 From: Paul Yorke Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: running 'long stored' trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 16307 From: Paul Yorke Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: Newbie question
Group: S-Trains Message: 16308 From: Doug Peck Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: Paint
Group: S-Trains Message: 16309 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Paint Matches
Group: S-Trains Message: 16310 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: E-Unit drum repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 16311 From: Gary Chidester Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: e-Bay anonymous
Group: S-Trains Message: 16312 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: strrrrrange noise
Group: S-Trains Message: 16313 From: David Dewey Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: e-Bay anon--join now!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16314 From: David Dewey Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: It Lives!!! (not trains, Linda's car) & New Digs
Group: S-Trains Message: 16315 From: af21115 Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: Paint Question
Group: S-Trains Message: 16316 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: E-Unit drum repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 16317 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: e-Bay anonymous
Group: S-Trains Message: 16318 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Paint
Group: S-Trains Message: 16319 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: paint
Group: S-Trains Message: 16320 From: bpx29@aol.com Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Speaking of Ebay....
Group: S-Trains Message: 16321 From: David Dewey Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: Speaking of Ebay....
Group: S-Trains Message: 16322 From: Rhett T. George Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Tires
Group: S-Trains Message: 16323 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Ebay auction
Group: S-Trains Message: 16324 From: royhoffman Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: A Beachead
Group: S-Trains Message: 16325 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: Paint
Group: S-Trains Message: 16326 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: Speaking of Ebay....
Group: S-Trains Message: 16327 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: Tires
Group: S-Trains Message: 16328 From: crustyfour Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Franklin questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 16329 From: Horn, David Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Franklin front end
Group: S-Trains Message: 16330 From: Mark Preman Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 16331 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: paint
Group: S-Trains Message: 16332 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] A Beachead!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16333 From: Daniel Neumayer Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Wonderful products and service from S-Helper
Group: S-Trains Message: 16334 From: Robert Jackson Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] A Beachead!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16335 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1265
Group: S-Trains Message: 16336 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] A Beachead!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16337 From: rodgers_carl Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1265
Group: S-Trains Message: 16338 From: Robert Jackson Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] A Beachead!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16339 From: milorod@aol.com Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: running 'long stored' trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 16340 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: New Orleans Follow-Up
Group: S-Trains Message: 16341 From: bassflyer Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Speaking of the Franklin......
Group: S-Trains Message: 16342 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: FLOODLIGHT CAR
Group: S-Trains Message: 16343 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: FLOODLIGHT CAR
Group: S-Trains Message: 16344 From: Horn, David Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Re: Nawlin's Pix
Group: S-Trains Message: 16345 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: SHS 2001 Christmas Car
Group: S-Trains Message: 16346 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] New Orleans Follow-Up
Group: S-Trains Message: 16347 From: Alex Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Re: New Orleans Follow-Up
Group: S-Trains Message: 16348 From: Scott Brown Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] A Beachead!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16349 From: hsjobbins Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: The Big-E Train Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 16350 From: royhoffman Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] A Beachead!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16351 From: Horn, David Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Trains on TV
Group: S-Trains Message: 16352 From: david_garber2000 Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Big E train Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 16353 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1266
Group: S-Trains Message: 16354 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Seaboard Coaler by Lionel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16355 From: Paul Yorke Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: stored loco 'updated'
Group: S-Trains Message: 16356 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1266
Group: S-Trains Message: 16357 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: reverse unit drum repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 16358 From: Steve Blancard Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: 336 Loco in a local antique shop
Group: S-Trains Message: 16359 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1266
Group: S-Trains Message: 16360 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1266
Group: S-Trains Message: 16361 From: Gary Chidester Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Broken resolution
Group: S-Trains Message: 16362 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: Re: Scale wheel sets and Hi-rail turnouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 16363 From: Horn, David Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: 336 and other engines
Group: S-Trains Message: 16364 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: Re: 336 and other engines
Group: S-Trains Message: 16365 From: David Dewey Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: Fw: 1959 Frontiersman Box
Group: S-Trains Message: 16366 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: BOXES
Group: S-Trains Message: 16367 From: Horn, David Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: FW: Running long stored trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 16368 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: WHEELS
Group: S-Trains Message: 16369 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1267
Group: S-Trains Message: 16370 From: bilfrazier Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: Parts wanted
Group: S-Trains Message: 16371 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: Christmas tree operators
Group: S-Trains Message: 16372 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: Re: Christmas tree operators
Group: S-Trains Message: 16373 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: Re: Christmas tree operators HERE HERE
Group: S-Trains Message: 16374 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: Thanks, Don
Group: S-Trains Message: 16375 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1267
Group: S-Trains Message: 16376 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1267
Group: S-Trains Message: 16377 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: FLYER WHISTLES AND HORNS TUTORIAL NEEDED
Group: S-Trains Message: 16378 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Re: FLYER WHISTLES AND HORNS TUTORIAL NEEDED
Group: S-Trains Message: 16379 From: Neil Trump Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Re: FLYER WHISTLES AND HORNS
Group: S-Trains Message: 16380 From: Robert E. Yablonski Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Seaboard Coaler by Lionel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16381 From: Robert E. Yablonski Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Empire State Express
Group: S-Trains Message: 16382 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Re: FLYER WHISTLES AND HORNS
Group: S-Trains Message: 16383 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Tom Barkers book
Group: S-Trains Message: 16384 From: Neil Trump Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Fw: FLYER WHISTLES AND HORNS
Group: S-Trains Message: 16385 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Re: FLYER WHISTLES AND HORNS
Group: S-Trains Message: 16386 From: Alan C Udy Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Solder Blobs for Tender Axle Wipers
Group: S-Trains Message: 16387 From: Neil Trump Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Re: FLYER WHISTLES AND HORNS
Group: S-Trains Message: 16388 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Looking for AF website
Group: S-Trains Message: 16389 From: mlmarmer Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Vintage American Flyer Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 16390 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Re: Looking for AF website
Group: S-Trains Message: 16391 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Re: Looking for AF website
Group: S-Trains Message: 16392 From: ron inscho Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Re: Solder Blobs for Tender Axle Wipers
Group: S-Trains Message: 16393 From: Knight, Gene Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Help with wiring
Group: S-Trains Message: 16394 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Re: FLYER WHISTLES AND HORNS
Group: S-Trains Message: 16395 From: Neil Trump Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Rivets and bushings
Group: S-Trains Message: 16396 From: trzp1800 Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Re: Looking for AF website
Group: S-Trains Message: 16397 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: 720 controllers
Group: S-Trains Message: 16398 From: Paul Yorke Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Re: Tom Barkers book
Group: S-Trains Message: 16399 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Re: 720 controllers
Group: S-Trains Message: 16400 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: test
Group: S-Trains Message: 16401 From: David Dewey Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Re: 720 controllers
Group: S-Trains Message: 16402 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Re: 720 controllers
Group: S-Trains Message: 16403 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Re: New Orleans Follow-Up
Group: S-Trains Message: 16404 From: TED R LARSON Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Fw: Re: vehicles
Group: S-Trains Message: 16405 From: David Dewey Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Re: 720 controllers
Group: S-Trains Message: 16406 From: Dale Smith Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Toy Train Exhibit in Palo Alto, CA
Group: S-Trains Message: 16407 From: Horn, David Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Operating caboose "silencer"
Group: S-Trains Message: 16408 From: trzp1800 Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Has anyone reviewed these Service Manuals?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16409 From: David Dewey Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: More on early 720 switches and later 720s.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16410 From: jahoozdumm Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Re: FLYER WHISTLES AND HORNS
Group: S-Trains Message: 16411 From: lawrence Jackman Date: 1/7/2002
Subject: Re: Thanks, Don
Group: S-Trains Message: 16412 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/7/2002
Subject: Re: Operating caboose "silencer"
Group: S-Trains Message: 16413 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/7/2002
Subject: Disney Monorail
Group: S-Trains Message: 16414 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/7/2002
Subject: Parts needed
Group: S-Trains Message: 16415 From: bassflyer Date: 1/7/2002
Subject: 682 members in S-Trains......
Group: S-Trains Message: 16416 From: srgriggs Date: 1/7/2002
Subject: Re: FLYER WHISTLES AND HORNS
Group: S-Trains Message: 16417 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/7/2002
Subject: operating caboose "silencer"
Group: S-Trains Message: 16418 From: garydmccullah Date: 1/7/2002
Subject: 21158
Group: S-Trains Message: 16419 From: jahoozdumm Date: 1/7/2002
Subject: Re: FLYER WHISTLES AND HORNS
Group: S-Trains Message: 16420 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 1/8/2002
Subject: CHRISTMAS LAYOUTS
Group: S-Trains Message: 16421 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/8/2002
Subject: Electronic Whistle control
Group: S-Trains Message: 16422 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/8/2002
Subject: All good things . . .
Group: S-Trains Message: 16423 From: garydmccullah Date: 1/8/2002
Subject: 21158
Group: S-Trains Message: 16424 From: Neimanis,V. [NCR] Date: 1/8/2002
Subject: Help with wiring a semaphore
Group: S-Trains Message: 16425 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/8/2002
Subject: Cow on track
Group: S-Trains Message: 16426 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 1/8/2002
Subject: Stud/steam drive wheel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16427 From: David Dewey Date: 1/8/2002
Subject: Re: Stud/steam drive wheel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16428 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/8/2002
Subject: stud/steam drive wheel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16429 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: Re: Stud/steam drive wheel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16430 From: joe messinger Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: 336 Whistle
Group: S-Trains Message: 16431 From: crustyfour Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: 336 whistle
Group: S-Trains Message: 16432 From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: Trip Troubles
Group: S-Trains Message: 16433 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: Re: Cow on track
Group: S-Trains Message: 16434 From: TWesthelle@aol.com Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: Canadian Pacific Flat Trees/Repo/ for AF 24558
Group: S-Trains Message: 16435 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] 336 Whistle
Group: S-Trains Message: 16436 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: Re: Trip Troubles
Group: S-Trains Message: 16437 From: mythunder2000 Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: Helix design
Group: S-Trains Message: 16438 From: Doug Peck Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: Re: Stud/steam drive wheel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16439 From: Horn, David Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: Re: semaphore
Group: S-Trains Message: 16440 From: Paul Yorke Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: archive - Helix
Group: S-Trains Message: 16441 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: Re: Helix design
Group: S-Trains Message: 16442 From: The Reis's Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: SD-60 and Lionel Flyer accessories
Group: S-Trains Message: 16443 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] SD-60 and Lionel Flyer accessories
Group: S-Trains Message: 16444 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: Re: Homemade choo choo cam Sale Ends Today... NOT AN ADVERTISEMENT!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16445 From: David Dewey Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] SD-60 and Lionel Flyer accessories
Group: S-Trains Message: 16446 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 16447 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: Fwd: HELIX
Group: S-Trains Message: 16448 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: Re: Fwd: HELIX
Group: S-Trains Message: 16449 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: Helix
Group: S-Trains Message: 16450 From: Paul Yorke Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: Atlantic Loco Cam
Group: S-Trains Message: 16451 From: Lance McCold Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: stud/steam drive wheel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16452 From: Dan Brindell Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: Re: Fwd: HELIX
Group: S-Trains Message: 16453 From: John Harvey Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: Repair of SIT Hudson
Group: S-Trains Message: 16454 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1275
Group: S-Trains Message: 16455 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: Apologies
Group: S-Trains Message: 16456 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: Helix
Group: S-Trains Message: 16457 From: THOMAS E HILLERY Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1275
Group: S-Trains Message: 16458 From: Alan C Udy Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Christmas Trees in S
Group: S-Trains Message: 16459 From: Ted Larson Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: sprues and runners
Group: S-Trains Message: 16460 From: Horn, David Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: ACG Diesel to can motor conversion
Group: S-Trains Message: 16461 From: mythunder2000 Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: Helix
Group: S-Trains Message: 16462 From: david.avedesian@clarkconstruction.com Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Helix design
Group: S-Trains Message: 16463 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: S gauge tinplate track in new radii
Group: S-Trains Message: 16464 From: royhoffman Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Opportunity for an S club layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 16465 From: crustyfour Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Dick Kuepper's articulated project
Group: S-Trains Message: 16466 From: Horn, David Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: ACG Diesel to can motor conversion
Group: S-Trains Message: 16467 From: Dick Kuepper Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: Dick Kuepper's articulated project
Group: S-Trains Message: 16468 From: David Dewey Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: ACG Diesel to can motor conversion
Group: S-Trains Message: 16469 From: jtrain485 Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: lionel gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 16470 From: TCS Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Try, try again
Group: S-Trains Message: 16471 From: Doug Peck Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Flyonel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16472 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Flyonel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16473 From: ron inscho Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Flyonel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16474 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: 2002 Flyonel -AAhhh! They're after me again!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16475 From: ron inscho Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Here's a news flash Re: [S-Trains] 2002 Flyonel -AAhhh!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16476 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: 290 smoke unit
Group: S-Trains Message: 16477 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Flyonel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16478 From: David Dewey Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: 290 smoke unit
Group: S-Trains Message: 16479 From: jahoozdumm Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Flyonel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16480 From: Paul Yorke Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Helix - Deluxe Online Grade Calculator
Group: S-Trains Message: 16481 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: Helix - Deluxe Online Grade Calculator
Group: S-Trains Message: 16482 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Flyonel- Rock Island
Group: S-Trains Message: 16483 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Flyonel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16484 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Flyonel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16485 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: Helix - Deluxe Online Grade Calculator
Group: S-Trains Message: 16486 From: erierailroad@aol.com Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: 2002 Chionel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16487 From: Steve Blancard Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: 4x8 layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 16488 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: China Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 16489 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: WAY OFF TOPIC
Group: S-Trains Message: 16490 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 4x8 layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 16491 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Chionel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16492 From: milorod@aol.com Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: Deluxe Online Grade Calculator
Group: S-Trains Message: 16493 From: TED R LARSON Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: NASG Project
Group: S-Trains Message: 16494 From: erierailroad@aol.com Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: 2002 Chionel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16495 From: Euell Johnson Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Chionel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16496 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Chionel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16497 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Chionel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16498 From: Wayne and Alice Beachy Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: 1/64 Fire Trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 16499 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Dreeeaeam, dream, dream, dream, dream.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16500 From: Scott Brown Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 1/64 Fire Trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 16501 From: David Dewey Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Chionel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16502 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Chionel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16503 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: China Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 16504 From: Robert Jackson Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Gates, runners, and sprue
Group: S-Trains Message: 16505 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: eBay listings
Group: S-Trains Message: 16506 From: Donald P. Abrams Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Pulling 66x aluminum passenger cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 16507 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Chionel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16508 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Chionel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16509 From: Wayne and Alice Beachy Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 1/64 Fire Trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 16510 From: TCS Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Here we go again
Group: S-Trains Message: 16511 From: Gregg Mummert Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Fwd: Hallmark motorcycle
Group: S-Trains Message: 16512 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Ron Plyler
Group: S-Trains Message: 16513 From: David Dewey Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 1/64 Fire Trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 16514 From: jahoozdumm Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Chionel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16515 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Chionel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16516 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: China, Mexico & memory
Group: S-Trains Message: 16517 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16518 From: Knight, Gene Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Running Flyer with a ZW
Group: S-Trains Message: 16519 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: China Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 16520 From: David Dewey Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: Running Flyer with a ZW
Group: S-Trains Message: 16521 From: Alan Bataille Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: China
Group: S-Trains Message: 16522 From: Tom Young Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Led's
Group: S-Trains Message: 16523 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Opinion
Group: S-Trains Message: 16524 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: Running Flyer with a ZW
Group: S-Trains Message: 16525 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: goop
Group: S-Trains Message: 16526 From: Tom Young Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: goop
Group: S-Trains Message: 16527 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16528 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: Led's
Group: S-Trains Message: 16529 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16530 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16531 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: 474 chassis bushings
Group: S-Trains Message: 16532 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16533 From: richgaj Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16534 From: Gregg Mummert Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: Running Flyer with a ZW
Group: S-Trains Message: 16535 From: Gregg Mummert Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: goop
Group: S-Trains Message: 16536 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16537 From: SSabino39@aol.com Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16538 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: Running Flyer with a ZW
Group: S-Trains Message: 16539 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16540 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Running Flyer with a ZW
Group: S-Trains Message: 16541 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16542 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16543 From: TWesthelle@aol.com Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Truscott Set Cowboy and Indian Figures
Group: S-Trains Message: 16544 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: MTH 787 Log Loader
Group: S-Trains Message: 16545 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: MTH 787 Log Loader
Group: S-Trains Message: 16546 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16547 From: Horn, David Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: ZW with AF trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 16548 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16549 From: Tom Young Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Led's
Group: S-Trains Message: 16550 From: David Dewey Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16551 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: WHERE TO FIND AF AND KITS
Group: S-Trains Message: 16552 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16553 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Gabe the Lamplighter
Group: S-Trains Message: 16554 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: "S" and other Hobby Shops in Fort Worth/Arlington/Dallas Area?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16555 From: lawrence Jackman Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: [FC] sprues and runners
Group: S-Trains Message: 16556 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: New Flyonel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16557 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Flyonel correction
Group: S-Trains Message: 16558 From: Scott Brown Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Flyer Smoke Fluid
Group: S-Trains Message: 16559 From: John L. Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer Smoke Fluid
Group: S-Trains Message: 16560 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer Smoke Fluid
Group: S-Trains Message: 16561 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: 914 coil
Group: S-Trains Message: 16562 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Vulcanized PULLMOR
Group: S-Trains Message: 16563 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: 914 coil
Group: S-Trains Message: 16564 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: 914 coil
Group: S-Trains Message: 16565 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: 914 coil
Group: S-Trains Message: 16566 From: Lance McCold Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Speeding up MTH coal loader
Group: S-Trains Message: 16567 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: 914 coil
Group: S-Trains Message: 16568 From: Steve Blancard Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: 914 coil
Group: S-Trains Message: 16569 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: 914 coil
Group: S-Trains Message: 16570 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: MAGNET WIRE
Group: S-Trains Message: 16571 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer Smoke Fluid
Group: S-Trains Message: 16572 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: 914 coil
Group: S-Trains Message: 16573 From: jahoozdumm Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16574 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16575 From: crustyfour Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: 914 coil / magnet wire
Group: S-Trains Message: 16576 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer Smoke Fluid
Group: S-Trains Message: 16577 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: New Flyonel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16578 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer Smoke Fluid
Group: S-Trains Message: 16579 From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Smoke Fluid Formula
Group: S-Trains Message: 16580 From: crustyfour Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Hiawatha conversion
Group: S-Trains Message: 16581 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: SMOKE FLUID
Group: S-Trains Message: 16582 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: ONE OTHER THING/ Smoke fluid/ BLATANT AD
Group: S-Trains Message: 16583 From: Linda & Ted Weiler Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Modelng Farm Areas
Group: S-Trains Message: 16584 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16585 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: BLATANT AD CORRECTION
Group: S-Trains Message: 16586 From: David Dewey Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: New Flyonel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16587 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: MODELING FARMS
Group: S-Trains Message: 16588 From: John McCarthy Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: new guy with track question.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16589 From: Hannon Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: 914 Magnet Wire and Academic Titles
Group: S-Trains Message: 16590 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: 914 Magnet Wire and Academic Titles
Group: S-Trains Message: 16591 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: academic titles
Group: S-Trains Message: 16592 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: new old accessories
Group: S-Trains Message: 16593 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: academic titles
Group: S-Trains Message: 16594 From: Hannon Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: 914 Magnet Wire and Academic Titles
Group: S-Trains Message: 16595 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: Modelng Farm Areas
Group: S-Trains Message: 16596 From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: academic titles
Group: S-Trains Message: 16597 From: Tom Young Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: LED's follow up
Group: S-Trains Message: 16598 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: new old accessories
Group: S-Trains Message: 16599 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: new guy with track question.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16600 From: cliffgarz@aol.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: Smoke Fluid
Group: S-Trains Message: 16601 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Fwd: smoke fluid, JUST A QUICK REVIEW
Group: S-Trains Message: 16602 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: What DO we want?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16603 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: # 914 LIKE MINT CONDITION
Group: S-Trains Message: 16604 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: new old accessories
Group: S-Trains Message: 16605 From: mlmarmer Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Help on value on AF trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 16606 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: # 914 LIKE MINT CONDITION
Group: S-Trains Message: 16607 From: David Dewey Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: Help on value on AF trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 16608 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: re :914
Group: S-Trains Message: 16609 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: 914
Group: S-Trains Message: 16610 From: David Dewey Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: # 914 LIKE MINT CONDITION
Group: S-Trains Message: 16611 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: help on value of AF trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 16612 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: Help on value on AF trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 16613 From: Mark Kiner Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: # 914 LIKE MINT CONDITION
Group: S-Trains Message: 16614 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16615 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Columbus, OH & Lexington, KY
Group: S-Trains Message: 16616 From: rpd3@att.net Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: New e-mail address for Roger Delthony
Group: S-Trains Message: 16617 From: rpd3@att.net Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: New e-mail address for Roger Delthony
Group: S-Trains Message: 16618 From: Gary Chidester Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: help on value of AF trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 16619 From: Mike Vana Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Smoke
Group: S-Trains Message: 16620 From: Mark Kiner Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: 914 coil
Group: S-Trains Message: 16621 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: What DO we want?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16622 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: Hiawatha conversion
Group: S-Trains Message: 16623 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: new guy with track question.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16624 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Saddel Back Tanker
Group: S-Trains Message: 16625 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: new guy with track question.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16626 From: bilfrazier@aol.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: Ballston Camelback
Group: S-Trains Message: 16627 From: David Dewey Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Pics of the 20002 AF line are out!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16628 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Pics of the 20002 AF line are out!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16629 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Ballston Camelback
Group: S-Trains Message: 16630 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Hiawatha conversion
Group: S-Trains Message: 16631 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Atlanta Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 16632 From: crustyfour Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: 914 coil
Group: S-Trains Message: 16633 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Hiawatha conversion
Group: S-Trains Message: 16634 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Hiawatha conversion
Group: S-Trains Message: 16635 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Camelbacks (was Saddel Back Tanker)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16636 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: New Flyer Catalog Links
Group: S-Trains Message: 16637 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Smoke
Group: S-Trains Message: 16638 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: new guy with track question.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16639 From: Horn, David Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: SHS car uncoupling
Group: S-Trains Message: 16640 From: Hannon Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: PhDs
Group: S-Trains Message: 16641 From: Hannon Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Degree Poll Results
Group: S-Trains Message: 16642 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: couplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 16643 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: POLL
Group: S-Trains Message: 16644 From: dwightlehnhoff Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: degrees?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16645 From: Linda & Ted Weiler Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Modelng Farm Areas
Group: S-Trains Message: 16646 From: Gene Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Modelng Farm Areas
Group: S-Trains Message: 16647 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16648 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: couplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 16649 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: PhDs
Group: S-Trains Message: 16650 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: couplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 16651 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Saddel Back Tanker
Group: S-Trains Message: 16652 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Saddel Back Tanker /Camel Back
Group: S-Trains Message: 16653 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Saddel Back Tanker /Camel Back
Group: S-Trains Message: 16654 From: David Dewey Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: PhDs
Group: S-Trains Message: 16655 From: David Dewey Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Farm Scenes
Group: S-Trains Message: 16656 From: Ken Kinyon - W7TS Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: PhDs
Group: S-Trains Message: 16657 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: PhDs
Group: S-Trains Message: 16658 From: joelgerlach Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: degrees
Group: S-Trains Message: 16659 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Fwd: smoke fluid, JUST A QUICK REVIEW
Group: S-Trains Message: 16660 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Degrees on list
Group: S-Trains Message: 16661 From: Victor Bereskin Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Pics of the 20002 AF line are out!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16662 From: garydmccullah Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: degrees
Group: S-Trains Message: 16663 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] Re: Pics of the 20002 AF line are out!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16664 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Shops selling "S"
Group: S-Trains Message: 16665 From: David Dewey Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: degrees
Group: S-Trains Message: 16666 From: Lance McCold Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: About smoke fluid
Group: S-Trains Message: 16667 From: mlmarmer Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Pics of the 20002 AF line are out!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16668 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: degrees
Group: S-Trains Message: 16669 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Degrees on list
Group: S-Trains Message: 16670 From: Donald P. Abrams Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Huh?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16671 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: degrees
Group: S-Trains Message: 16672 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: huh
Group: S-Trains Message: 16673 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: degrees
Group: S-Trains Message: 16674 From: Dan Brindell Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: couplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 16675 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Camelbacks (was Saddel Back Tanker)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16676 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Camelbacks (was Saddel Back Tanker)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16677 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: degrees
Group: S-Trains Message: 16678 From: jahoozdumm Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Pics of the 20002 AF line are out!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16679 From: Mike Vana Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: College Degrees and new Lionel AF
Group: S-Trains Message: 16680 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Bucking Bronco
Group: S-Trains Message: 16681 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Flyionel with O Gauge touch
Group: S-Trains Message: 16682 From: THOMAS E HILLERY Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1286
Group: S-Trains Message: 16683 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Visit
Group: S-Trains Message: 16684 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: plaster cloth
Group: S-Trains Message: 16685 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: Huh?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16686 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: degrees
Group: S-Trains Message: 16687 From: Linda & Ted Weiler Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: "S" and other Hobby Shops in Fort Worth/Arlington/Dallas Area?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16688 From: af21115 Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: plaster cloth
Group: S-Trains Message: 16689 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: Bucking Bronco
Group: S-Trains Message: 16690 From: mlmarmer Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: Huh?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16691 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: GREENBERG VALUES
Group: S-Trains Message: 16692 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: The Flyonel Conundrum
Group: S-Trains Message: 16693 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: The Flyonel Conundrum
Group: S-Trains Message: 16694 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: 583 Magnetic Crane Magnet rewire
Group: S-Trains Message: 16695 From: Mark Preman Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: 20% Off Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 16696 From: David Dewey Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: degrees
Group: S-Trains Message: 16697 From: David Dewey Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: The Flyonel Conundrum
Group: S-Trains Message: 16698 From: roy inman Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: LAF
Group: S-Trains Message: 16699 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: LAF
Group: S-Trains Message: 16700 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: LAF PART II
Group: S-Trains Message: 16701 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: FAMILY HERITAGE TRAIN SHOW
Group: S-Trains Message: 16702 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: The Flyonel Conundrum
Group: S-Trains Message: 16703 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Reverse Unit
Group: S-Trains Message: 16704 From: erierailroad@aol.com Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Chionel Again
Group: S-Trains Message: 16705 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: The Flyonel Conundrum
Group: S-Trains Message: 16706 From: IronHorse Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: plaster cloth
Group: S-Trains Message: 16707 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: The Flyonel Conundrum
Group: S-Trains Message: 16708 From: Robert Wight Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Need help Making switches Automatic
Group: S-Trains Message: 16709 From: richgaj Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: LAF
Group: S-Trains Message: 16710 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1288
Group: S-Trains Message: 16711 From: roberte613@aol.com Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: plaster cloth
Group: S-Trains Message: 16712 From: John L. Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: plaster cloth
Group: S-Trains Message: 16713 From: Mike Vana Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: What Lionel should do with AF
Group: S-Trains Message: 16714 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: degrees
Group: S-Trains Message: 16715 From: Tom Young Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Plaster cloth
Group: S-Trains Message: 16716 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: plaster cloth
Group: S-Trains Message: 16717 From: Scott Brown Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: degrees
Group: S-Trains Message: 16718 From: TWesthelle@aol.com Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Degree Survey??
Group: S-Trains Message: 16719 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: degree survey explanation
Group: S-Trains Message: 16720 From: erierailroad@aol.com Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Check Ebay AF Monsanto Tank Car
Group: S-Trains Message: 16721 From: The Reis's Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: Check Ebay AF Monsanto Tank Car
Group: S-Trains Message: 16722 From: David Dewey Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: degree survey explanation & AF learning value
Group: S-Trains Message: 16723 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: degree survey explanation
Group: S-Trains Message: 16724 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: Degrees
Group: S-Trains Message: 16725 From: af21115 Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: degree survey explanation
Group: S-Trains Message: 16726 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: Degrees
Group: S-Trains Message: 16727 From: crustyfour Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: degree survey explanation
Group: S-Trains Message: 16728 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: degree survey explanation & AF learning value
Group: S-Trains Message: 16729 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: degree survey explanation
Group: S-Trains Message: 16730 From: mlmarmer Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: Check Ebay AF Monsanto Tank Car
Group: S-Trains Message: 16731 From: Neimanis,V. [NCR] Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Subject: 583 Magnetic Crane Magnet rewire
Group: S-Trains Message: 16732 From: Horn, David Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: The way it works.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16733 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: The Myth of Toy Trains (was Re: degree survey explanation)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16734 From: Roy E. Plotnick Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: S-fest
Group: S-Trains Message: 16735 From: Roy E. Plotnick Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Dave Sengenberger
Group: S-Trains Message: 16736 From: Roy E. Plotnick Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: On PhDs etc
Group: S-Trains Message: 16737 From: dwightlehnhoff Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Fathers & Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 16738 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Time Sensitive Post -read now
Group: S-Trains Message: 16739 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: More on Time Sensitive
Group: S-Trains Message: 16740 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: Subject: 583 Magnetic Crane Magnet rewire
Group: S-Trains Message: 16741 From: Hannon Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Poll Origins
Group: S-Trains Message: 16742 From: David Dewey Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: On PhDs , Fathers & Sons,etc posts & this group
Group: S-Trains Message: 16743 From: mlmarmer Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: eBay item 1692418717 (Ends Jan-25-02 084327 PST ) - AMERICAN FLYER
Group: S-Trains Message: 16744 From: cliffgarz@aol.com Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Train Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 16745 From: David Dewey Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: eBay item 1692418717 (Ends Jan-25-02 084327 PST ) - AMERICAN FL
Group: S-Trains Message: 16746 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: eBay item 1692418717 (Ends Jan-25-02 084327 PST ) - AMERICAN FL
Group: S-Trains Message: 16747 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: Chionel Again
Group: S-Trains Message: 16748 From: jfrr54 Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: eBay item 1692418717 (Ends Jan-25-02 084327 PST ) - AMERICAN FL
Group: S-Trains Message: 16749 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Paint
Group: S-Trains Message: 16750 From: Alex Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: The Myth of Toy Trains (was Re: degree survey explanation)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16751 From: Doug Peck Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: Monsanto
Group: S-Trains Message: 16752 From: max meise Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: degrees
Group: S-Trains Message: 16753 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Fathers, Sons, Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 16754 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: degrees
Group: S-Trains Message: 16755 From: LeonhardtEuler@netscape.net Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: A bunch of stuff.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16756 From: John Foley Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: New Manufact
Group: S-Trains Message: 16757 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Testing
Group: S-Trains Message: 16758 From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S. Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Russ Mobley's Collection for Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 16759 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: 2002 Flyonel
Group: S-Trains Message: 16760 From: John Harvey Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: AF Display Down Under
Group: S-Trains Message: 16761 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: 583/583 wiring
Group: S-Trains Message: 16762 From: ljack70117@adelphia.net Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Re: The Flyonel Conundrum
Group: S-Trains Message: 16763 From: ljack70117@adelphia.net Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Re: The Flyonel Conundrum
Group: S-Trains Message: 16764 From: ljack70117@adelphia.net Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Re: LAF
Group: S-Trains Message: 16765 From: mvandiver2@aol.com Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1291
Group: S-Trains Message: 16766 From: bobkat531 Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: 322 S.I.T. question
Group: S-Trains Message: 16767 From: bobkat531 Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Automating controled blocks
Group: S-Trains Message: 16768 From: David Dewey Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: LAF & the Flyonel Conundrum
Group: S-Trains Message: 16769 From: seg60133 Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Flyer in the movies
Group: S-Trains Message: 16770 From: TED R LARSON Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Corgi
Group: S-Trains Message: 16771 From: Steve Blancard Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: On-line track planner ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16772 From: Paul Yorke Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Re: On-line track planner ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16773 From: Gerry Evans Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer in the movies
Group: S-Trains Message: 16774 From: hornickw Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Tops for 720A Switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 16775 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] The Myth of Toy Trains (was Re: degree survey expla
Group: S-Trains Message: 16776 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Re: Fwd:The Myth of Toy Trains (was Re: degree survey explanation)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16777 From: joe messinger Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Influences?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16778 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 16779 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 16780 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Polling responses
Group: S-Trains Message: 16781 From: Alex Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Re: Influences?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16782 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Lack of degree
Group: S-Trains Message: 16783 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Influences?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16784 From: Tom Rolfsmeyer Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: My Story
Group: S-Trains Message: 16785 From: chucky5741 Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Hi! I am new here.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16786 From: ron inscho Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Re: Influences?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16787 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Poll results (so far)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16788 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: SHS Switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 16789 From: David A. Highfield Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Re: Influences?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16790 From: ron inscho Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: http--www.trainweb.org-s-trains-track-dropndrag.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 16791 From: ron inscho Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Re: Influences?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16792 From: gino restivo Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Re: baldwin grinder ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16793 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Chris: Your simplistic view
Group: S-Trains Message: 16794 From: jahoozdumm Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Re: Influences?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16795 From: Steve Blancard Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: How I got into S gauge..
Group: S-Trains Message: 16796 From: Alan Evans Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: ESE and SF E-8 for Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 16797 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: SMOKE FLUID
Group: S-Trains Message: 16798 From: roy inman Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: trainstart
Group: S-Trains Message: 16799 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Flyer Liquidation
Group: S-Trains Message: 16800 From: ironhors@swbell.net Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Re: academic titles
Group: S-Trains Message: 16801 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Set contents (was Re: Influences?)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16802 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Re: Choices
Group: S-Trains Message: 16803 From: rfgiardina Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Smoke Fluid
Group: S-Trains Message: 16804 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Smoke Fluid
Group: S-Trains Message: 16805 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Smoke Fluid
Group: S-Trains Message: 16806 From: fkopetz2000 Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: My Story....
Group: S-Trains Message: 16807 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] re: Choices
Group: S-Trains Message: 16808 From: ron inscho Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Re: Choices
Group: S-Trains Message: 16809 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] The Flyonel Conundrum
Group: S-Trains Message: 16810 From: frilen2 Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Train Start and Restart
Group: S-Trains Message: 16811 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: Another poll
Group: S-Trains Message: 16812 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: How it all got started
Group: S-Trains Message: 16813 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: Re: Choices
Group: S-Trains Message: 16814 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: 2 choices
Group: S-Trains Message: 16815 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: Re: Choices
Group: S-Trains Message: 16816 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: More surveys
Group: S-Trains Message: 16817 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: Help! with S-Trains poll
Group: S-Trains Message: 16818 From: jfrr54 Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: How it all got started.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16819 From: reefman@voicenet.com Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: Re: Influences?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16820 From: Euell Johnson Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: poll
Group: S-Trains Message: 16821 From: David Dewey Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: Re: Choices
Group: S-Trains Message: 16822 From: David Dewey Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: Re: 2 choices--marketing
Group: S-Trains Message: 16823 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: don't give up!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16824 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: SETS/AD?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16825 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: Choices
Group: S-Trains Message: 16826 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: Re: don't give up!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16827 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: WP observation car
Group: S-Trains Message: 16828 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: grade elevations/trestles
Group: S-Trains Message: 16829 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] Choices
Group: S-Trains Message: 16830 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: how it started
Group: S-Trains Message: 16831 From: Al Paolozzi Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: Box car door
Group: S-Trains Message: 16832 From: David Dewey Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: the MTH 787 Log Loader--problems??
Group: S-Trains Message: 16833 From: ron inscho Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: Re: the MTH 787 Log Loader--problems??
Group: S-Trains Message: 16834 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Re: Corgi
Group: S-Trains Message: 16835 From: Thomas Davis Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Re: Corgi
Group: S-Trains Message: 16836 From: dougwyatt Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Scenery Unlimited Bridge
Group: S-Trains Message: 16837 From: roberte613@aol.com Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Flyer Christmas Car Photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 16838 From: ljack70117@adelphia.net Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Re: Hi! I am new here.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16839 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Lionel Catalog
Group: S-Trains Message: 16840 From: mlmarmer Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Ebay description
Group: S-Trains Message: 16841 From: Lance McCold Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 16842 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: lamp covers for switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 16843 From: Al Paolozzi Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Re: Speeding up MTH coal loader
Group: S-Trains Message: 16844 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel Catalog
Group: S-Trains Message: 16845 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 16846 From: Dennis Conway Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 16847 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: unanswered questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 16848 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 16849 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 16850 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 16851 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 16852 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: 770 Trestle Set
Group: S-Trains Message: 16853 From: Jim Carnes Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: unanswered questions - trestles
Group: S-Trains Message: 16854 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel Catalog
Group: S-Trains Message: 16855 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel Catalog
Group: S-Trains Message: 16856 From: Linda & Ted Weiler Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 16857 From: David Dewey Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 16858 From: Robert Wight Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Trestle Grade/Thanks
Group: S-Trains Message: 16859 From: bpx29@aol.com Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: NP Reefer #24409--Need Pricing Help Please !
Group: S-Trains Message: 16860 From: jahoozdumm Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: how it started
Group: S-Trains Message: 16861 From: Paul Yorke Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Chat Room Move
Group: S-Trains Message: 16862 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 16863 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 16864 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 16865 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: Trestle Grade/Thanks
Group: S-Trains Message: 16866 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: 813 switcher
Group: S-Trains Message: 16867 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 16868 From: tomsmitty2001 Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Influences and how it all got started
Group: S-Trains Message: 16869 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 16870 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16871 From: Roger Delthony Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Soft Winross Tires
Group: S-Trains Message: 16872 From: David Dewey Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: Influences and how it all got started
Group: S-Trains Message: 16873 From: David Dewey Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 16874 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Answers
Group: S-Trains Message: 16875 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Show Schedule
Group: S-Trains Message: 16876 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Re: This Weekend
Group: S-Trains Message: 16877 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] 770 Trestle Set
Group: S-Trains Message: 16878 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Flyer for Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 16879 From: Horn, David Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: AF Switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 16880 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: 2 choices
Group: S-Trains Message: 16881 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Corgi vehicles
Group: S-Trains Message: 16882 From: david_garber2000 Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Jan. is a good month
Group: S-Trains Message: 16883 From: David Dewey Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Re: Jan. is a good month
Group: S-Trains Message: 16884 From: Rhett T. George Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1298
Group: S-Trains Message: 16885 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: BK switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 16886 From: royhoffman Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Re: Jan. is a good month
Group: S-Trains Message: 16887 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Re: Jan. is a good month
Group: S-Trains Message: 16888 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: 720A two train switch
Group: S-Trains Message: 16889 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Indianapolis GATS
Group: S-Trains Message: 16890 From: royhoffman Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Re: Jan. is a good month
Group: S-Trains Message: 16891 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Oveltine ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16892 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Need your help on 770 paper trestle Bridge sections
Group: S-Trains Message: 16893 From: yazfacts Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Lionel/A.F.752.......
Group: S-Trains Message: 16894 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Re: BK switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 16895 From: Steve Blancard Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Timonium ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16896 From: TED R LARSON Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Racing Champions
Group: S-Trains Message: 16897 From: Steve Blancard Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Old time locomotives
Group: S-Trains Message: 16898 From: Paul Yorke Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Group Polls
Group: S-Trains Message: 16899 From: Doug Peck Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Coaler
Group: S-Trains Message: 16900 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 16901 From: John L. Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Track Cleaning Car
Group: S-Trains Message: 16902 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Industrial Rail Tank car
Group: S-Trains Message: 16903 From: David Dewey Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 16904 From: David Dewey Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Sacramento GATS
Group: S-Trains Message: 16905 From: David Dewey Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Re: Need your help on 770 paper trestle Bridge sections
Group: S-Trains Message: 16906 From: srgriggs Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: AF 305 Atlantic on eBay
Group: S-Trains Message: 16907 From: trzp1800 Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Old Turnouts and newbie discoveries
Group: S-Trains Message: 16908 From: ron inscho Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Re: Track Cleaning Car
Group: S-Trains Message: 16909 From: David Dewey Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Old Turnouts and newbie discoveries
Group: S-Trains Message: 16910 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Track Cleaning Car
Group: S-Trains Message: 16911 From: af21115 Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: AF 305 Atlantic on eBay
Group: S-Trains Message: 16912 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: 305
Group: S-Trains Message: 16913 From: Gill W. Lott Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Timonium Train Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 16914 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Ovaltine (was Oveltine ?)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16915 From: Neimanis,V. [NCR] Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Switches and Power
Group: S-Trains Message: 16916 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Great Idea (was Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rai
Group: S-Trains Message: 16917 From: Tom Pennington Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Timonium Train Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 16918 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Track Cleaning Car
Group: S-Trains Message: 16919 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Track "Humping" Problem
Group: S-Trains Message: 16920 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Incantations Etc.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16921 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: car warpage
Group: S-Trains Message: 16922 From: David Dewey Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Great Idea (was Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high
Group: S-Trains Message: 16923 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Great Idea (was Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high
Group: S-Trains Message: 16924 From: David Dewey Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Great Idea (was Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high
Group: S-Trains Message: 16925 From: David Dewey Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: 720A two train switch
Group: S-Trains Message: 16926 From: Horn, David Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Timonium show this weekend
Group: S-Trains Message: 16927 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Funny Ebay auctions
Group: S-Trains Message: 16928 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Funny Ebay auctions
Group: S-Trains Message: 16929 From: Horn, David Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: 720A AF switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 16930 From: srgriggs Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: AF 305 Atlantic on eBay
Group: S-Trains Message: 16931 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Old time locomotives
Group: S-Trains Message: 16932 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 16933 From: DSapadin Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Laying Homabed and Gargraves Track
Group: S-Trains Message: 16934 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Old time locomotives
Group: S-Trains Message: 16935 From: DSapadin Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Help with laying track with Homabed!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16936 From: af21115 Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: AF 305 Atlantic on eBay
Group: S-Trains Message: 16937 From: Neimanis,V. [NCR] Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: More on 720A AF switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 16938 From: TED R LARSON Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: roofwalk adhesive
Group: S-Trains Message: 16939 From: David Dewey Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: AF 305 Atlantic on eBay
Group: S-Trains Message: 16940 From: Dennis Conway Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] roofwalk adhesive
Group: S-Trains Message: 16941 From: Mark Preman Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Florida GATS
Group: S-Trains Message: 16942 From: John L. Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Japanese S Guage
Group: S-Trains Message: 16943 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Paper Trestle Set
Group: S-Trains Message: 16944 From: srgriggs Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Help with laying track with Homabed!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16945 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Night S-Trains Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 16946 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: WP observation car
Group: S-Trains Message: 16947 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: japanese s gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 16948 From: ron inscho Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: japanese s gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 16949 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: 720-A switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 16950 From: John L. Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Transformer and Deisel Horn Queestions
Group: S-Trains Message: 16951 From: af21115 Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Re: Japanese S Guage
Group: S-Trains Message: 16952 From: yazfacts Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Controller Box Question......
Group: S-Trains Message: 16953 From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Re: Japanese S scale
Group: S-Trains Message: 16954 From: Alex Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Horn Questions and Hams
Group: S-Trains Message: 16955 From: IronHorse Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Re: Japanese S scale
Group: S-Trains Message: 16956 From: Alan C Udy Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: A Sensible Size
Group: S-Trains Message: 16957 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Re: Transformer and Deisel Horn Queestions
Group: S-Trains Message: 16958 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Re: Need your help on 770 paper trestle Bridge sections
Group: S-Trains Message: 16959 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1303
Group: S-Trains Message: 16960 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Night S-Trains Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 16961 From: Tom Young Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: 770 paper trestle Bridge sections
Group: S-Trains Message: 16962 From: Scott Brown Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Horn Questions and Hams
Group: S-Trains Message: 16963 From: Scott Brown Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: 302 prices
Group: S-Trains Message: 16964 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Re: 302 prices
Group: S-Trains Message: 16965 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Die Cast?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16966 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Re: Die Cast?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16967 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Engine bearings / motor noise
Group: S-Trains Message: 16968 From: mlmarmer Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Ebay Heading
Group: S-Trains Message: 16969 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Mel's Diner
Group: S-Trains Message: 16970 From: jahoozdumm Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Re: Japanese S scale
Group: S-Trains Message: 16971 From: yazfacts Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Bulb info.......
Group: S-Trains Message: 16972 From: Don or Marsha Munsey, Jr Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Potential S Convert
Group: S-Trains Message: 16973 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Timonium Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 16974 From: Victor Bereskin Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1299
Group: S-Trains Message: 16975 From: erielackawanna76 Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Train detector
Group: S-Trains Message: 16976 From: Steve Blancard Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Timonium - after action report
Group: S-Trains Message: 16977 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Re: Bulb info.......
Group: S-Trains Message: 16978 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Animation
Group: S-Trains Message: 16979 From: plotnick Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Japanese S-Gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 16980 From: pdng@aol.com Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1303
Group: S-Trains Message: 16981 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: japanese s gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 16982 From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Re: Japanese S-Gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 16983 From: trzp1800 Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Re: Timonium - after action report
Group: S-Trains Message: 16984 From: Neimanis,V. [NCR] Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Controller Box Question
Group: S-Trains Message: 16985 From: Donald P. Abrams Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: spike in Atlantics' prices
Group: S-Trains Message: 16986 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 16987 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Fwd: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16988 From: plotnick Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: 24 Gauge wire
Group: S-Trains Message: 16989 From: TED R LARSON Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Divco
Group: S-Trains Message: 16990 From: dwightlehnhoff Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: engine/motor noise
Group: S-Trains Message: 16991 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Re: Controller Box Question......
Group: S-Trains Message: 16992 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Chassis, drive gear installation
Group: S-Trains Message: 16993 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: 770 Paper Trestles - Success!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16994 From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: [AD] Newest B.T.S. Kits Now Shipping
Group: S-Trains Message: 16995 From: Horn, David Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: 283 performance and noise
Group: S-Trains Message: 16996 From: David Dewey Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Re: Die Cast?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16997 From: Horn, David Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: 302's
Group: S-Trains Message: 16998 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Indy Train Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 16999 From: joelgerlach Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: re 24 gauge magnet wire
Group: S-Trains Message: 17000 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Re: SHS Warehouse Warming?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17001 From: tomsmitty2001 Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: motor noises
Group: S-Trains Message: 17002 From: richgajnak Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: "S" in March CTT
Group: S-Trains Message: 17003 From: Ken Kinyon - W7TS Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1303
Group: S-Trains Message: 17004 From: Paul Yorke Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Chat Problems - Back to the Club
Group: S-Trains Message: 17005 From: gino restivo Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: re; rectiformer tube cages ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17006 From: Linda & Ted Weiler Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Fw: VIRUS ALERT: New Virus called "WORM_MYPARTY.A"
Group: S-Trains Message: 17007 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17008 From: yazfacts Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Thanks.........
Group: S-Trains Message: 17009 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1303
Group: S-Trains Message: 17010 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Re: Die Cast?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17011 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Lightning (was "no subject")
Group: S-Trains Message: 17012 From: bob_massie Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Testing...and a few questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 17013 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Re: Mel's Diner
Group: S-Trains Message: 17014 From: train1010 Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Testing
Group: S-Trains Message: 17015 From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re: Mel's Diner
Group: S-Trains Message: 17016 From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: SD60 Hi-Rail with KDs
Group: S-Trains Message: 17017 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re: 24 Gauge wire
Group: S-Trains Message: 17018 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: True Tinplate in S (Was Japanese S-Gauge)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17019 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re: Testing...and a few questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 17020 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re: Testing...and a few questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 17021 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re: Testing...and a few questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 17022 From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: How it started
Group: S-Trains Message: 17023 From: bob_massie Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: My questions--some clarification
Group: S-Trains Message: 17024 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17025 From: Alex Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: S Gauge and Amateur Radio operators
Group: S-Trains Message: 17026 From: Alex Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: S Gauge and Amateur Radio operators (II)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17027 From: Alex Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: S Gauge and Amateur Radio operators (III)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17028 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17029 From: dougwyatt Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: S Gauge and Amateur Radio operators
Group: S-Trains Message: 17030 From: bob_massie Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Still more questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 17031 From: Alex Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: S Gauge and Amateur Radio operators (IV)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17032 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re: Testing...and a few questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 17033 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: more questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 17034 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re: Still more questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 17035 From: John L. Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge and Amateur Radio operators
Group: S-Trains Message: 17036 From: Lance McCold Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re: ...and a few questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 17037 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re: ...and a few questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 17038 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re: Testing...and a few questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 17039 From: bob_massie Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Thanks for your help thus far
Group: S-Trains Message: 17040 From: The Reis's Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: S Helper trains for sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 17041 From: jahoozdumm Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re; Still more questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 17042 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: Re: Mel's Diner
Group: S-Trains Message: 17043 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: To scale or not to scale
Group: S-Trains Message: 17044 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: 1:64 trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 17045 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: More Cow!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17046 From: royhoffman Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: Re: To scale or not to scale
Group: S-Trains Message: 17047 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1307
Group: S-Trains Message: 17048 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: DIVCO 1/64 Scale Trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 17049 From: Mr V Kosobiecki Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: K775
Group: S-Trains Message: 17050 From: ljack70117@adelphia.net Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: Re: Die Cast?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17051 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: Re: More on 720A AF switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 17052 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: Monty
Group: S-Trains Message: 17053 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: Re: Tinplate and 4-4-4 locomotives.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17054 From: yazfacts Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: American Models Trouble......
Group: S-Trains Message: 17055 From: Gerry Evans Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: Re: American Models Trouble......
Group: S-Trains Message: 17056 From: ron inscho Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: Re: American Models Trouble......
Group: S-Trains Message: 17057 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: West Springfield "BIG E" Train Show.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17058 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: GATS in Louisville
Group: S-Trains Message: 17059 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: Re: American Models Trouble......
Group: S-Trains Message: 17060 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: American Models trouble
Group: S-Trains Message: 17061 From: jahoozdumm Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: RE; 1:64 trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 17062 From: Robert Wight Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: Sam the Semaphore Man
Group: S-Trains Message: 17063 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: MTH Phone #
Group: S-Trains Message: 17064 From: Horn, David Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: MTH transformers and SHS trains, or not.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17065 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: Re: Sam the Semaphore Man
Group: S-Trains Message: 17066 From: jfrr54 Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: Re: American Models Trouble......
Group: S-Trains Message: 17067 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: Bridge Rectifier Question
Group: S-Trains Message: 17068 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: MAGNET WIRE
Group: S-Trains Message: 17069 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: Re: SCIPLUS
Group: S-Trains Message: 17070 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: vacuum packed collectibles
Group: S-Trains Message: 17071 From: dcourliss Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: S-scale figures
Group: S-Trains Message: 17072 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 17073 From: Steve Blancard Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: Re: MAGNET WIRE
Group: S-Trains Message: 17074 From: Steve Blancard Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: Re: MAGNET WIRE
Group: S-Trains Message: 17075 From: Scott Brown Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: AM SD-60
Group: S-Trains Message: 17076 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: Re: Big E trains Show this weekend for SHS!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17077 From: gino restivo Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: Re: Bridge Rectifier Question
Group: S-Trains Message: 17078 From: Tom Pennington Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: 1950's AF Santa Fe "F3"!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17079 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 17080 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: Re: Bridge Rectifier Question
Group: S-Trains Message: 17081 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: Bridge Rectifiers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17082 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: Rectifiers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17083 From: Gary Chidester Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: Problem with Polls?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17084 From: Gary Chidester Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: Never mind the help with Polls!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17085 From: Alex Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: Re: Breaking Lionel News?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17086 From: Horn, David Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: so much for a bargain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17087 From: Horn, David Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: ACG AF 360 PA to LTI can motor conversion completed
Group: S-Trains Message: 17088 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17089 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Night S-Trains Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 17090 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 17091 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Night S-Trains Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 17092 From: Steve Blancard Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Night S-Trains Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 17093 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: Track tip
Group: S-Trains Message: 17094 From: David Dewey Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: The Sacramento GATS show & AF running
Group: S-Trains Message: 17095 From: Paul Yorke Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Sunday Chat Session
Group: S-Trains Message: 17096 From: Paul Yorke Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Night S-Trains Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 17097 From: Scott Holm Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Fwd: Wednesday's Joke-Gram
Group: S-Trains Message: 17098 From: Scott Holm Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: hints
Group: S-Trains Message: 17099 From: Paul Yorke Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Poll - 'It's your duty!'
Group: S-Trains Message: 17100 From: Scott Holm Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: My apologies
Group: S-Trains Message: 17101 From: roberte613@aol.com Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: 2001 Christmas Layout Photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 17102 From: Steve Blancard Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Night S-Trains Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 17103 From: David Dewey Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Night S-Trains Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 17104 From: David Dewey Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Re: hints (quick joke-non train)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17105 From: Wayne and Alice Beachy Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Web Page update
Group: S-Trains Message: 17106 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: DC Trolleys
Group: S-Trains Message: 17107 From: Rogerw53@aol.com Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1311
Group: S-Trains Message: 17108 From: Michael Christensen Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Night S-Trains Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 17109 From: Michael Christensen Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: GABE THE LAMPLIGHTER A+ Lionel!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17110 From: DoUg Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: GABE THE LAMPLIGHTER A+ Lionel!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17111 From: Jim Carnes Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Re: GABE THE LAMPLIGHTER A+ Lionel!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17112 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Re: DC Trolleys
Group: S-Trains Message: 17113 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Re: DC Trolleys
Group: S-Trains Message: 17114 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1311
Group: S-Trains Message: 17115 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: 21155 docksider
Group: S-Trains Message: 17116 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Poll
Group: S-Trains Message: 17117 From: ron inscho Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Re: 21155 docksider
Group: S-Trains Message: 17118 From: Al Paolozzi Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1311
Group: S-Trains Message: 17119 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Yahoo Clubs
Group: S-Trains Message: 17120 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Scott Holm
Group: S-Trains Message: 17121 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: N&W colors
Group: S-Trains Message: 17122 From: Paul Yorke Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: yahoo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17123 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: Re: Yahoo Clubs
Group: S-Trains Message: 17124 From: Alex Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: Yahoo is the pits
Group: S-Trains Message: 17125 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: Re: Yahoo Clubs
Group: S-Trains Message: 17126 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: Good News
Group: S-Trains Message: 17127 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: last week's chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 17128 From: Neimanis,V. [NCR] Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: Trouble with Poll Access
Group: S-Trains Message: 17129 From: richgajnak Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: Speaking of Yahoo....
Group: S-Trains Message: 17130 From: Donald P. Abrams Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: ACG AF 360 PA to LTI can motor conversion completed
Group: S-Trains Message: 17131 From: Gary Chidester Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: Long or short trucks?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17132 From: David Dewey Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: Re: Long or short trucks?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17133 From: Paul Yorke Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: This 'IS' S Scale
Group: S-Trains Message: 17134 From: Lance McCold Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: Striping Paint from AF Plastic shells
Group: S-Trains Message: 17136 From: Michael Christensen Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: FLYER SALES LIST
Group: S-Trains Message: 17137 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: removing paint from plastic
Group: S-Trains Message: 17138 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: Stripping paint
Group: S-Trains Message: 17139 From: Alex Sibbald Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: accessories
Group: S-Trains Message: 17140 From: jahoozdumm Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: Re: Stripping paint
Group: S-Trains Message: 17141 From: Michael Christensen Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Re: accessories
Group: S-Trains Message: 17142 From: Horn, David Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: LTI SP Geep on eBay
Group: S-Trains Message: 17143 From: Horn, David Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: short or long trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 17144 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Re: accessories
Group: S-Trains Message: 17145 From: Horn, David Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: 360 PA can conversion
Group: S-Trains Message: 17146 From: David Dewey Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Re: accessories
Group: S-Trains Message: 17147 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Re: DC Trolleys
Group: S-Trains Message: 17148 From: David Dewey Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Re: 360 PA can conversion
Group: S-Trains Message: 17149 From: David Dewey Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Re: DC Trolleys
Group: S-Trains Message: 17150 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Charlie can be helped
Group: S-Trains Message: 17151 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Louisville GATS
Group: S-Trains Message: 17152 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Portable Layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 17153 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Re: Portable Layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 17154 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Paint Removal
Group: S-Trains Message: 17155 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Dishwashere to remove paint
Group: S-Trains Message: 17156 From: honkelrs Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: AC Value S-Gauge Track
Group: S-Trains Message: 17157 From: Don Thompson Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Re: Did I miss something?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17158 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Accesories
Group: S-Trains Message: 17159 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Re: DISHWASHER Paint Removal
Group: S-Trains Message: 17160 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Winston-Salem GATS
Group: S-Trains Message: 17161 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Question/help request
Group: S-Trains Message: 17162 From: ron inscho Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Re: Question/help request
Group: S-Trains Message: 17163 From: David Dewey Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Re: Question/help request
Group: S-Trains Message: 17164 From: Scott Holm Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Adding Smoke to a Docksider
Group: S-Trains Message: 17165 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Get the word out.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17166 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Re: Get the word out.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17167 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Sorry about my previous post.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17168 From: af21115 Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Information Underload
Group: S-Trains Message: 17169 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Re: Question/help request
Group: S-Trains Message: 17170 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: joining white metal (was Question/help request)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17171 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Re: Information Underload
Group: S-Trains Message: 17172 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Re: Information Underload
Group: S-Trains Message: 17173 From: david_s_garber Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Re: information underload
Group: S-Trains Message: 17174 From: jmessinger@hotmail.com Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#1700193673: Gilbert American
Group: S-Trains Message: 17175 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Re: Question/help request
Group: S-Trains Message: 17176 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Re: Get the word out
Group: S-Trains Message: 17177 From: royhoffman Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Re: Sorry about my previous post.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17178 From: joeawood@aol.com Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Circus Set
Group: S-Trains Message: 17179 From: Knight, Gene Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Circus Set
Group: S-Trains Message: 17180 From: David Dewey Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Re: Circus Set - YOICKS!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17181 From: Roy E. Plotnick Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Japanese S-gauge set on Ebay
Group: S-Trains Message: 17182 From: Doug Peck Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Re: Uncouplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17183 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Japanese S-gauge set on Ebay
Group: S-Trains Message: 17184 From: Roy E. Plotnick Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Japanese S-gauge set on Ebay
Group: S-Trains Message: 17185 From: aglorince Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: train shows cleveland and pittsburgh
Group: S-Trains Message: 17186 From: Mike Vana Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Joining Pot Metal
Group: S-Trains Message: 17187 From: jerryfish@worldnet.att.net Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Re: Japanese S-gauge set on Ebay
Group: S-Trains Message: 17188 From: Mark Preman Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 17189 From: TED R LARSON Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Fw: clear coat for decals and windows
Group: S-Trains Message: 17190 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Re: FARM SET ALSO!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17191 From: The Reis's Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Best of both worlds engine project.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17192 From: Don Thompson Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Re: Best of both worlds engine project.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17193 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Re: Japanese S-gauge set on Ebay
Group: S-Trains Message: 17194 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: train shows cleveland and pittsburgh
Group: S-Trains Message: 17195 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Commerical Announcement-The Next 2 Corgi PCCs
Group: S-Trains Message: 17196 From: Horn, David Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: "old" LTI, new LTI time line
Group: S-Trains Message: 17197 From: joe messinger Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Whistle signals?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17198 From: Horn, David Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Joining boiler shells
Group: S-Trains Message: 17199 From: David Dewey Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: "old" LTI, new LTI time line
Group: S-Trains Message: 17200 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Check out Rules and Regulations - Operating Department - 8/1/1904
Group: S-Trains Message: 17201 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: Joining boiler shells
Group: S-Trains Message: 17202 From: David Dewey Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: Whistle signals?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17203 From: David Dewey Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Pretty custom paint job on 320 Loco
Group: S-Trains Message: 17204 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: Whistle signals?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17205 From: af21115 Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: Whistle signals?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17206 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: new old stuff
Group: S-Trains Message: 17207 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: FARM SET ALSO!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17208 From: Michael Christensen Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: Whistle signals?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17209 From: ron inscho Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: Whistle signals?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17210 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: S gauge models and supplies.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17211 From: Scott Holm Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: new old stuff
Group: S-Trains Message: 17212 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: Get the word out
Group: S-Trains Message: 17213 From: Paul Yorke Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Jax Pictures
Group: S-Trains Message: 17215 From: erierailroad@aol.com Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: Jax Pictures
Group: S-Trains Message: 17216 From: Steve Blancard Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: Jax Pictures
Group: S-Trains Message: 17217 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: whitewalls
Group: S-Trains Message: 17218 From: David Dewey Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Chris Z's note on: Get the word out
Group: S-Trains Message: 17219 From: David Dewey Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: whitewalls
Group: S-Trains Message: 17220 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: whitewalls
Group: S-Trains Message: 17221 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1317
Group: S-Trains Message: 17222 From: ron inscho Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Fostoria Live!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17223 From: David Dewey Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: whitewalls
Group: S-Trains Message: 17224 From: joe messinger Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Signals-Thanks!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17225 From: Wayne Grinnell Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Hobby Stores
Group: S-Trains Message: 17226 From: joeawood@aol.com Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Fwd: Question for seller -- Item #1699090290 Circus set
Group: S-Trains Message: 17227 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Re: Joining boiler shells
Group: S-Trains Message: 17228 From: drgw489 Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: FS: SHS CB&Q F-3's with sound in both units
Group: S-Trains Message: 17229 From: David Dewey Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: A clue as to why CTT doesn't do S stuff much
Group: S-Trains Message: 17230 From: David Dewey Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: I goofed!! was: A clue as to why CTT doesn't do S stuff much
Group: S-Trains Message: 17231 From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: [Ad] Latest B.T.S. Products
Group: S-Trains Message: 17232 From: Horn, David Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: whitewalls
Group: S-Trains Message: 17233 From: pieter_roos Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Re: A clue as to why CTT doesn't do S stuff much
Group: S-Trains Message: 17234 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Long Island Train Meets
Group: S-Trains Message: 17235 From: bilfrazier Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Reversing unit troubles
Group: S-Trains Message: 17236 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Re: Reversing unit troubles
Group: S-Trains Message: 17237 From: David Dewey Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Re: Fwd: Question for seller -- Item #1699090290 Circus set
Group: S-Trains Message: 17238 From: TED R LARSON Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Vehicles
Group: S-Trains Message: 17239 From: John Foley Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Details for Building
Group: S-Trains Message: 17240 From: Gerry Evans Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Details for Building
Group: S-Trains Message: 17241 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 17242 From: Alex Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Re: Long Island Train Meets
Group: S-Trains Message: 17243 From: yazfacts Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Thanks For The Help.......
Group: S-Trains Message: 17244 From: yazfacts Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Little crank.......
Group: S-Trains Message: 17245 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Re: Little crank.......
Group: S-Trains Message: 17246 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: whitewalls
Group: S-Trains Message: 17247 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Re: Chris Zizzo's note
Group: S-Trains Message: 17248 From: John L. Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Re: whitewalls
Group: S-Trains Message: 17249 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Fostoria Live!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17250 From: jahoozdumm Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Re: Japanese S-gauge set on Ebay
Group: S-Trains Message: 17251 From: ron inscho Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Re: Japanese S-gauge set on Ebay
Group: S-Trains Message: 17252 From: David Dewey Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Re: Little crank.......
Group: S-Trains Message: 17253 From: David Dewey Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Track trips, was RE:whitewalls
Group: S-Trains Message: 17254 From: ljack70117@adelphia.net Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: whitewalls
Group: S-Trains Message: 17255 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: whitewalls
Group: S-Trains Message: 17256 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: more on decal message
Group: S-Trains Message: 17257 From: Alex Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] Long Island Train Meets
Group: S-Trains Message: 17258 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: test tracks (was A clue as to why CTT...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17259 From: Dick Kuepper Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Gilbert HO
Group: S-Trains Message: 17260 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: test tracks
Group: S-Trains Message: 17261 From: TCS Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scale
Group: S-Trains Message: 17262 From: TED R LARSON Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: RC
Group: S-Trains Message: 17263 From: joelgerlach Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: 336 Troubles
Group: S-Trains Message: 17264 From: Donald P. Abrams Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Reversing unit troubles
Group: S-Trains Message: 17265 From: David Dewey Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: 336 Troubles
Group: S-Trains Message: 17266 From: David Dewey Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: Reversing unit troubles
Group: S-Trains Message: 17267 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: test tracks
Group: S-Trains Message: 17268 From: ron inscho Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: 336 Troubles
Group: S-Trains Message: 17269 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: Electronic Track Trip
Group: S-Trains Message: 17270 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: Electronic Track Trip
Group: S-Trains Message: 17271 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17272 From: bassflyer Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: S-Trains list @ becoming a pain in the ...........
Group: S-Trains Message: 17273 From: gunrjoe@aol.com Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: boys railroad club video-track radius
Group: S-Trains Message: 17274 From: David Dewey Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: Electronic Track Trip
Group: S-Trains Message: 17275 From: srgriggs Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: 336 Troubles
Group: S-Trains Message: 17276 From: jahoozdumm Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: S-Trains list @ becoming a pain in the ...........
Group: S-Trains Message: 17277 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: No place else to go
Group: S-Trains Message: 17278 From: David Dewey Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: No place else to go
Group: S-Trains Message: 17279 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Portable Layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 17280 From: Clifford Manning Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: Electronic Track Trip
Group: S-Trains Message: 17281 From: Paul Yorke Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Gilbert Display Layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 17282 From: Paul Yorke Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: S-Trains list @ becoming a pain in the ...........
Group: S-Trains Message: 17283 From: notcoldenough Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: Electronic Track Trip
Group: S-Trains Message: 17284 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: Electronic Track Trip
Group: S-Trains Message: 17285 From: fjg1870 Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: boys railroad club video-track radius
Group: S-Trains Message: 17286 From: notcoldenough Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: Electronic Track Trip / photo added
Group: S-Trains Message: 17287 From: Steve Blancard Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Dealing with long URL links
Group: S-Trains Message: 17288 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: boys railroad club video-track radius
Group: S-Trains Message: 17289 From: notcoldenough Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Blocking ads / S-Trains list @ becoming a pain in the ...........
Group: S-Trains Message: 17290 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Electronic track trip
Group: S-Trains Message: 17291 From: Scott Holm Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: Dealing with long URL links
Group: S-Trains Message: 17292 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Tookus (was: S-Trains list @ becoming a pain in the ...........)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17293 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: No place else to go
Group: S-Trains Message: 17294 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Trainweb
Group: S-Trains Message: 17295 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Layout lighting
Group: S-Trains Message: 17296 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: Electronic Track Trip / photo added
Group: S-Trains Message: 17297 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 17298 From: af21115 Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: S-Trains list @ becoming a pain in the ...........
Group: S-Trains Message: 17299 From: notcoldenough Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: Electronic track trip
Group: S-Trains Message: 17300 From: david_s_garber Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: list and pain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17301 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: Tookus (was: S-Trains list @ becoming a pain in the ...........)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17302 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17303 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Ebay auction item 1703839145
Group: S-Trains Message: 17304 From: Tom Pennington Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay auction item 1703839145
Group: S-Trains Message: 17305 From: Scott Holm Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay auction item 1703839145
Group: S-Trains Message: 17306 From: Steve Roche Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: E unit wiring
Group: S-Trains Message: 17307 From: tomsmitty2001 Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: ebay item # 1703839145
Group: S-Trains Message: 17308 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: SPRINT
Group: S-Trains Message: 17309 From: Alan Evans Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Where is AFP, alias Greg Craft
Group: S-Trains Message: 17310 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: 336 wheel troubles
Group: S-Trains Message: 17311 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: ebay item # 1703839145
Group: S-Trains Message: 17312 From: bassflyer Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Regarding the list @ Yahoo.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 17313 From: jnr59 Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: American Models 6-wheel truck 80' Pullman cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 17314 From: ron inscho Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: Where is AFP, alias Greg Craft
Group: S-Trains Message: 17315 From: Don Thompson Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: American Models 6-wheel truck 80' Pullman cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 17316 From: MARVD6848@aol.com Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: 572 CRUMBLER
Group: S-Trains Message: 17317 From: Horn, David Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: 336
Group: S-Trains Message: 17318 From: Horn, David Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Lionel detector
Group: S-Trains Message: 17319 From: aag_rlg Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Regarding the list @ Yahoo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17320 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: American Models 6-wheel truck 80' Pullman cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 17321 From: Horn, David Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: MIB SHS #00300 SF TOFC
Group: S-Trains Message: 17322 From: David Dewey Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: American Models 6-wheel truck 80' Pullman cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 17323 From: David Dewey Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: KIX Cereal BoxTrain buildings (1947?)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17324 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: AM Pullmans
Group: S-Trains Message: 17325 From: Becker, Neil A Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Magnetic Cranes
Group: S-Trains Message: 17326 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: I WANT . . .
Group: S-Trains Message: 17327 From: Don Thompson Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: AM Pullmans
Group: S-Trains Message: 17328 From: riecherg Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: S-Trains list @ becoming a pain in the ...........
Group: S-Trains Message: 17329 From: Dennis Back Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: S-Trains list NOT a pain if you....
Group: S-Trains Message: 17330 From: Doug Peck Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: Pullmor drivers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17331 From: Doug Peck Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: AFP
Group: S-Trains Message: 17332 From: Robert Wight Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: pull more tires
Group: S-Trains Message: 17333 From: jnr59@aol.com Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: American Models 6-wheel truck 80' Pullman cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 17334 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Pop-Up Ads
Group: S-Trains Message: 17335 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: POP UP ADS
Group: S-Trains Message: 17336 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: pressed wood question
Group: S-Trains Message: 17337 From: Dan Brindell Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Helix pix
Group: S-Trains Message: 17338 From: bassflyer Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: Cable modems vs. 56k modems....
Group: S-Trains Message: 17339 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Yahoo-UP merger
Group: S-Trains Message: 17340 From: bassflyer Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: pressed wood question
Group: S-Trains Message: 17341 From: Euell Johnson Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: Yahoo-UP merger
Group: S-Trains Message: 17342 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Lost clubs and people
Group: S-Trains Message: 17343 From: notcoldenough Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel detector
Group: S-Trains Message: 17344 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: pressed wood question
Group: S-Trains Message: 17345 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: junker shells
Group: S-Trains Message: 17346 From: notcoldenough Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: 740 Handcar sluggish
Group: S-Trains Message: 17347 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: R.Y. 42597
Group: S-Trains Message: 17348 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: R.Y. 42597
Group: S-Trains Message: 17349 From: David Dewey Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Another Beautiful repaint
Group: S-Trains Message: 17350 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: pressed wood question
Group: S-Trains Message: 17351 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Long passenger cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 17352 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Czech this out
Group: S-Trains Message: 17353 From: srgriggs Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: Long passenger cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 17354 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Funny E-Bay Listing of the Day
Group: S-Trains Message: 17355 From: Horn, David Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: sluggish 740
Group: S-Trains Message: 17356 From: royhoffman Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: Long passenger cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 17357 From: plotnick Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Tips Wanted on Rewinding Steamer Field; Model Railoader
Group: S-Trains Message: 17358 From: David Dewey Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: Funny E-Bay Listing of the Day
Group: S-Trains Message: 17359 From: Linda & Ted Weiler Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: Long passenger cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 17360 From: John Foley Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: RE; Lost clubs and people
Group: S-Trains Message: 17361 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: Funny E-Bay Listing of the Day
Group: S-Trains Message: 17362 From: Gary Chidester Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Old S-Gaugian
Group: S-Trains Message: 17363 From: Gary Chidester Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Mail-Order Only!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17364 From: MARVD6848@aol.com Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: nickel plated body
Group: S-Trains Message: 17365 From: royhoffman Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: NASG Project Announcement
Group: S-Trains Message: 17366 From: crustyfour Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Camelback
Group: S-Trains Message: 17367 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: NASG Project Announcement
Group: S-Trains Message: 17368 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: Camelback
Group: S-Trains Message: 17369 From: bob_massie Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: Long passenger cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 17370 From: bob_massie Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: NASG Project Announcement
Group: S-Trains Message: 17371 From: David Dewey Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: Funny E-Bay Listing of the Day
Group: S-Trains Message: 17372 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Short Passenger Cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 17373 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: Tips Wanted on Rewinding Steamer Field; Model Railoader
Group: S-Trains Message: 17374 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: This week end show
Group: S-Trains Message: 17375 From: Frederick Raab Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Shelburne Museum AF layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 17376 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Tie-Ejector ties
Group: S-Trains Message: 17377 From: srgriggs Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Silver Flash paint mask on eBay
Group: S-Trains Message: 17378 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Re: Tie-Ejector ties
Group: S-Trains Message: 17379 From: af21115 Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Re: Silver Flash paint mask on eBay
Group: S-Trains Message: 17380 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Re: Silver Flash paint mask on eBay
Group: S-Trains Message: 17381 From: Knight, Gene Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: layout question
Group: S-Trains Message: 17382 From: rodgers_carl Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Re: Silver Flash paint mask on eBay
Group: S-Trains Message: 17383 From: rodgers_carl Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Re: Tie-Ejector ties
Group: S-Trains Message: 17384 From: Neil Trump Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: paint masks
Group: S-Trains Message: 17385 From: richgajnak Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Re: Long passenger cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 17386 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Re: Tie-Ejector ties
Group: S-Trains Message: 17387 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Re: Silver Flash paint mask on eBay
Group: S-Trains Message: 17388 From: Don Thompson Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Re: Silver Flash paint mask on eBay
Group: S-Trains Message: 17389 From: rodgers_carl Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Re: Silver Flash paint mask on eBay
Group: S-Trains Message: 17390 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: IC Smooth Sides
Group: S-Trains Message: 17391 From: Thomas Stoltz Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: location
Group: S-Trains Message: 17392 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Alco PA armature testing
Group: S-Trains Message: 17393 From: David Dewey Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: location
Group: S-Trains Message: 17394 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Most interestin' development
Group: S-Trains Message: 17395 From: royhoffman Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: Most interestin' development
Group: S-Trains Message: 17396 From: Don Thompson Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: Most interestin' development
Group: S-Trains Message: 17397 From: Horn, David Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: yeah right.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17398 From: af21115 Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: yeah right.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17399 From: Doug Peck Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: Peck's parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 17400 From: David Dewey Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: yeah right.--OOH! OOOH! I gotta have it!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17401 From: David Dewey Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: yeah right.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17402 From: rodgers_carl Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: Peck's parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 17403 From: ironhors@swbell.net Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: IC Smooth Sides
Group: S-Trains Message: 17404 From: Bruce Papky Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Tie-Ejector ties.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17405 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Peck's parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 17406 From: Robert Wight Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: Peck's parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 17407 From: Doug Peck Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 17408 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: yeah right.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17409 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: Tie-Ejector ties.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17410 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Model Train Parts Reproductions Accessories Sets Tracks Cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 17411 From: Steve Blancard Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: yeah right.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17412 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: Most interestin' development
Group: S-Trains Message: 17413 From: David Dewey Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: Most interestin' development
Group: S-Trains Message: 17414 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: 80 foot SHS/AM Heavyweights
Group: S-Trains Message: 17415 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: 80' Smooth sider
Group: S-Trains Message: 17416 From: Doug Peck Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: Vacation!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17417 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Hall of Science
Group: S-Trains Message: 17418 From: jahoozdumm Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: Vacation!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17419 From: David Dewey Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Die-cast cars ,was "most interesting developement
Group: S-Trains Message: 17420 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Most interestin' development
Group: S-Trains Message: 17421 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Tie-Ejector ties.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17422 From: ljack70117@adelphia.net Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Silver Flash paint mask on eBay
Group: S-Trains Message: 17423 From: ljack70117@adelphia.net Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Silver Flash paint mask on eBay
Group: S-Trains Message: 17424 From: ljack70117@adelphia.net Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Silver Flash paint mask on eBay
Group: S-Trains Message: 17425 From: ljack70117@adelphia.net Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Peck's parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 17426 From: rfgiardina Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Tie-Ejector ties.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17427 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Location
Group: S-Trains Message: 17428 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Peck's parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 17429 From: rfgiardina Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 17430 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Crazy E-Bay stuff
Group: S-Trains Message: 17431 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Miller Power Trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 17432 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Hall of Science
Group: S-Trains Message: 17433 From: Thomas Stoltz Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Doug Peck
Group: S-Trains Message: 17434 From: Knight, Gene Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Reminiscing
Group: S-Trains Message: 17435 From: samusvulgaris Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: bells and Whistles
Group: S-Trains Message: 17436 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Promoting S-Gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 17437 From: jfrr54 Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: bells and Whistles
Group: S-Trains Message: 17438 From: crustyfour Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Bachmann ON30 conversion to S
Group: S-Trains Message: 17439 From: bob_massie Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: IC Smooth Sides
Group: S-Trains Message: 17440 From: Scott Holm Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Lionel's Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17441 From: yazfacts Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Bill board trouble......
Group: S-Trains Message: 17442 From: reefman@voicenet.com Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel's Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17443 From: gino restivo Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Bill board trouble......
Group: S-Trains Message: 17444 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Crazy E-Bay stuff
Group: S-Trains Message: 17445 From: gino restivo Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: [ bells and Whistles
Group: S-Trains Message: 17446 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Lionel/MTH Gabe's
Group: S-Trains Message: 17447 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel's Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17448 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Young Flyer fans
Group: S-Trains Message: 17449 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Model Train Parts Reproductions Accessories Sets Tracks Cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 17450 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 17451 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Bachmann ON30 conversion to S
Group: S-Trains Message: 17452 From: Mike Vana Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Gilbert Hall of Science Colors
Group: S-Trains Message: 17453 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Bill board trouble......
Group: S-Trains Message: 17454 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: TrainMaster Comand Control in AF Steam Locos
Group: S-Trains Message: 17455 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: WP,CZ observation car
Group: S-Trains Message: 17456 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Pre Ebay offer
Group: S-Trains Message: 17457 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17458 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: PREVIOUS POST
Group: S-Trains Message: 17460 From: bilfrazier@aol.com Date: 2/16/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1331
Group: S-Trains Message: 17461 From: erierailroad@aol.com Date: 2/16/2002
Subject: TrainMaster Comand Control in AF Steam Locos
Group: S-Trains Message: 17462 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 2/16/2002
Subject: Re: TrainMaster Comand Control in AF Steam Locos
Group: S-Trains Message: 17463 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/16/2002
Subject: Re: Indy Show pic
Group: S-Trains Message: 17464 From: Gale Hall Date: 2/16/2002
Subject: trades
Group: S-Trains Message: 17465 From: Gale Hall Date: 2/16/2002
Subject: trade status
Group: S-Trains Message: 17466 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 2/16/2002
Subject: Re: Question about TrainMaster Command Control
Group: S-Trains Message: 17467 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/16/2002
Subject: eBay item 1073478126 (Ends Feb-18-02 171145 PST ) - Missiouri Pacif
Group: S-Trains Message: 17468 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/16/2002
Subject: PRE EBAY update.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17469 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 2/16/2002
Subject: Russell MOBI-MODELS S-31 Rolling lift bridge
Group: S-Trains Message: 17470 From: Robert Wight Date: 2/17/2002
Subject: Coal Messes
Group: S-Trains Message: 17471 From: plotnick Date: 2/17/2002
Subject: Brush holders
Group: S-Trains Message: 17472 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/17/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 17473 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 2/17/2002
Subject: Re: S-Trains list NOT a pain if you....
Group: S-Trains Message: 17474 From: mfjdunn@bellsouth.net Date: 2/17/2002
Subject: AF roadbed
Group: S-Trains Message: 17475 From: bassflyer Date: 2/17/2002
Subject: To all Chatters....
Group: S-Trains Message: 17476 From: bassflyer Date: 2/17/2002
Subject: To all Chatters....
Group: S-Trains Message: 17477 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/17/2002
Subject: Lost Club
Group: S-Trains Message: 17478 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/17/2002
Subject: Chat last night
Group: S-Trains Message: 17479 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 2/17/2002
Subject: AF 4-6-6-4 Challenger project
Group: S-Trains Message: 17480 From: The Reis's Date: 2/17/2002
Subject: Microsoft Train Simulator on sale (warning off topic)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17481 From: Clifford Manning Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: smoke
Group: S-Trains Message: 17482 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: smoke
Group: S-Trains Message: 17483 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: "L" Parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 17484 From: Frederick Raab Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Shelburne Museum AF layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 17485 From: Horn, David Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Customized AF Steamers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17486 From: Steve Blancard Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: AF 4-6-6-4 Challenger project
Group: S-Trains Message: 17487 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: "L" Parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 17488 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: Ambassador Montezuma
Group: S-Trains Message: 17489 From: lou342ac Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: bells and Whistles
Group: S-Trains Message: 17490 From: David Dewey Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: smoke
Group: S-Trains Message: 17491 From: Fire Wood Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Flyer newbie
Group: S-Trains Message: 17492 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer newbie
Group: S-Trains Message: 17493 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: AF 4-6-6-4 Challenger project
Group: S-Trains Message: 17494 From: David Dewey Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer newbie
Group: S-Trains Message: 17495 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Way off topic...B-17
Group: S-Trains Message: 17496 From: jahoozdumm Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: Indy Show pic
Group: S-Trains Message: 17497 From: rfgiardina Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: smoke
Group: S-Trains Message: 17498 From: DoUg Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: A. Flyer road bed
Group: S-Trains Message: 17499 From: Dennis Conway Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] This 'IS' S Scale
Group: S-Trains Message: 17500 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: AF 4-6-6-4 project Q&A
Group: S-Trains Message: 17501 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer newbie
Group: S-Trains Message: 17502 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: B-17 Way off S-track
Group: S-Trains Message: 17503 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Chat, Ooooh, what you missed!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17504 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Northern Tenders
Group: S-Trains Message: 17505 From: David Dewey Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Ebay bidding--Is this the record for manual final bid?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17506 From: David Dewey Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Repro 4-wheel trailing trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 17507 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Northern Tenders
Group: S-Trains Message: 17508 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Thanks
Group: S-Trains Message: 17509 From: David Dewey Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: Northern Tenders
Group: S-Trains Message: 17510 From: ctbigboy Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: American "S" Gauge Nor-Cal Track Display
Group: S-Trains Message: 17511 From: Scott Holm Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: B-17 not so off S-track
Group: S-Trains Message: 17512 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Scherzer Rolling Bridge
Group: S-Trains Message: 17513 From: David Dewey Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: L cat revisions
Group: S-Trains Message: 17514 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Clover House NYC Dry Transfers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17515 From: ron inscho Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: Northern Tenders
Group: S-Trains Message: 17516 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Northern tenders
Group: S-Trains Message: 17517 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Clover House
Group: S-Trains Message: 17518 From: srgriggs Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: L cat revisions
Group: S-Trains Message: 17519 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: AF Northern tender available NEW
Group: S-Trains Message: 17520 From: p_rsl Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: B-17 not so off S-track
Group: S-Trains Message: 17521 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Poll results for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 17522 From: Horn, David Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: AM models releases
Group: S-Trains Message: 17523 From: yazfacts Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: I might be wrong but........
Group: S-Trains Message: 17524 From: frogfender Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: 740 headache
Group: S-Trains Message: 17525 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: 740 headache
Group: S-Trains Message: 17526 From: THOMAS E HILLERY Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1333
Group: S-Trains Message: 17527 From: David Dewey Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: GP 7/9 was: L cat revisions
Group: S-Trains Message: 17528 From: Fire Wood Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Thanks! /Scherzer bridge
Group: S-Trains Message: 17529 From: tomsmitty2001 Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: engine bearings
Group: S-Trains Message: 17530 From: Steve Blancard Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: engine bearings
Group: S-Trains Message: 17531 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1335
Group: S-Trains Message: 17532 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1333
Group: S-Trains Message: 17533 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 17534 From: Michael Greene Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: AM models releases
Group: S-Trains Message: 17535 From: Dan Brindell Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: L catalog
Group: S-Trains Message: 17536 From: theheadliner@adoption.com Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: smoke
Group: S-Trains Message: 17537 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: smoke
Group: S-Trains Message: 17538 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: All this B-17 stuff
Group: S-Trains Message: 17539 From: tomsmitty2001 Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: oil-lite bushing material
Group: S-Trains Message: 17540 From: gino restivo Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: re , smoke and poll use ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17541 From: David Dewey Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: engine bearings
Group: S-Trains Message: 17542 From: David Dewey Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: smoke
Group: S-Trains Message: 17543 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: Thanks! /Scherzer bridge
Group: S-Trains Message: 17544 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: mail car stands
Group: S-Trains Message: 17545 From: tomsmitty2001 Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: engine bearings
Group: S-Trains Message: 17546 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: mail car stands
Group: S-Trains Message: 17547 From: Mike Vana Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Rock Island, dynamic brakes and Geeps
Group: S-Trains Message: 17548 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: COAL TRAY
Group: S-Trains Message: 17549 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: smoke
Group: S-Trains Message: 17550 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Polls
Group: S-Trains Message: 17551 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: WP Flyonel
Group: S-Trains Message: 17552 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Ideas
Group: S-Trains Message: 17553 From: jahoozdumm Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: L cat revisions
Group: S-Trains Message: 17554 From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Subject: Northern tenders
Group: S-Trains Message: 17555 From: crustyfour Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: engine bearings
Group: S-Trains Message: 17556 From: crustyfour Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: oil-lite bushing material
Group: S-Trains Message: 17557 From: Horn, David Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: 740
Group: S-Trains Message: 17558 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: I might be wrong but........
Group: S-Trains Message: 17559 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Ebay Seller ending auction
Group: S-Trains Message: 17560 From: Horn, David Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: smoke units and Vaseline
Group: S-Trains Message: 17561 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1336
Group: S-Trains Message: 17562 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: aircraft and airports(and B-17's)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17563 From: hcopter52 Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Help with flyer layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 17564 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: 13irishfan13
Group: S-Trains Message: 17565 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: smoke units and Vaseline
Group: S-Trains Message: 17566 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: 13irishfan13
Group: S-Trains Message: 17567 From: rodgers_carl Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
Group: S-Trains Message: 17568 From: rodgers_carl Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
Group: S-Trains Message: 17569 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
Group: S-Trains Message: 17570 From: rodgers_carl Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
Group: S-Trains Message: 17571 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
Group: S-Trains Message: 17572 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
Group: S-Trains Message: 17573 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: 13irishfan13
Group: S-Trains Message: 17574 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
Group: S-Trains Message: 17575 From: Thomas Stoltz Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: MTH number
Group: S-Trains Message: 17576 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: AM models releases
Group: S-Trains Message: 17577 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: MORE COAL TRAYS
Group: S-Trains Message: 17578 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay Seller ending auction
Group: S-Trains Message: 17579 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: lightning
Group: S-Trains Message: 17580 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: lightning
Group: S-Trains Message: 17581 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: Rock Island, dynamic brakes and Geeps
Group: S-Trains Message: 17582 From: Thomas Stoltz Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: SHS
Group: S-Trains Message: 17583 From: Fire Wood Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: John Allen trackplan/ B17?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17584 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Domes
Group: S-Trains Message: 17585 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: E-Bay Blues
Group: S-Trains Message: 17586 From: David Dewey Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: AM models releases
Group: S-Trains Message: 17587 From: jahoozdumm Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: SHS
Group: S-Trains Message: 17588 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay Blues
Group: S-Trains Message: 17589 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: SHS
Group: S-Trains Message: 17590 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Weekend Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 17591 From: srgriggs Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: Rock Island, dynamic brakes and Geeps
Group: S-Trains Message: 17592 From: Mark Preman Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: ebay Angst
Group: S-Trains Message: 17593 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: ebay Angst
Group: S-Trains Message: 17594 From: ron inscho Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: Domes
Group: S-Trains Message: 17595 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: Thanks! /Scherzer bridge
Group: S-Trains Message: 17596 From: David Dewey Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: Thanks! /Scherzer bridge
Group: S-Trains Message: 17597 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: Thanks! /Scherzer bridge
Group: S-Trains Message: 17598 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: Thanks! /Scherzer bridge
Group: S-Trains Message: 17599 From: hcopter52 Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Pictures in the files
Group: S-Trains Message: 17600 From: Horn, David Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: isn't that interesting....factory NOS, huh?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17601 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Columbus Ohio GATS
Group: S-Trains Message: 17602 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: Domes
Group: S-Trains Message: 17603 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: 314AW tender on ebay 1705953699
Group: S-Trains Message: 17604 From: gino restivo Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: re; Factory NOS ,
Group: S-Trains Message: 17605 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: AM models releases
Group: S-Trains Message: 17606 From: rodgers_carl Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
Group: S-Trains Message: 17607 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
Group: S-Trains Message: 17608 From: aglorince Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: Weekend Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 17609 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
Group: S-Trains Message: 17610 From: ron inscho Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: isn't that interesting....factory NOS, huh?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17611 From: erielackawanna76 Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: E-units
Group: S-Trains Message: 17612 From: notcoldenough Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: E-units
Group: S-Trains Message: 17613 From: rodgers_carl Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
Group: S-Trains Message: 17614 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: OK, I'll go along with the fantasy idea
Group: S-Trains Message: 17615 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: E-units
Group: S-Trains Message: 17616 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
Group: S-Trains Message: 17617 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: VIBRATORS
Group: S-Trains Message: 17618 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: Rock Island, dynamic brakes and Geeps
Group: S-Trains Message: 17619 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: VIBRATORS
Group: S-Trains Message: 17620 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: OK, I'll go along with the fantasy idea
Group: S-Trains Message: 17621 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
Group: S-Trains Message: 17622 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: E-units
Group: S-Trains Message: 17623 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Recent Flyer auction
Group: S-Trains Message: 17624 From: af21115 Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: Recent Flyer auction
Group: S-Trains Message: 17625 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: Recent Flyer auction
Group: S-Trains Message: 17626 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: S-Video Volume IV
Group: S-Trains Message: 17627 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: Vibrators
Group: S-Trains Message: 17628 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Locating person
Group: S-Trains Message: 17629 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: LOCATING PERSON
Group: S-Trains Message: 17630 From: bassflyer Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: cleaning up the text....
Group: S-Trains Message: 17631 From: Paul Yorke Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Stories of 'How I got Started' from the list
Group: S-Trains Message: 17632 From: Alex Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: Vibrators
Group: S-Trains Message: 17633 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Vibrators
Group: S-Trains Message: 17634 From: Alex Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: Vibrators
Group: S-Trains Message: 17635 From: hcopter52 Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: factory N.O.S, Eh?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17636 From: Robert Wight Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Actuator
Group: S-Trains Message: 17637 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1338
Group: S-Trains Message: 17638 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1341
Group: S-Trains Message: 17639 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 17640 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: A.C. Gilbert factory tidbit
Group: S-Trains Message: 17641 From: Lance McCold Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Steam Depot 44-tonner
Group: S-Trains Message: 17642 From: David Dewey Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: Vibrators
Group: S-Trains Message: 17643 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: Actuator
Group: S-Trains Message: 17644 From: erielackawanna76 Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Reverse Units
Group: S-Trains Message: 17645 From: Fire Wood Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Why do I need two wires to the track?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17646 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: Actuator
Group: S-Trains Message: 17647 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: S-Video Vol. IV follow up
Group: S-Trains Message: 17648 From: David Dewey Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Incredible bidding on a 952G.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17649 From: Alex Sibbald Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: ebay #1708285043
Group: S-Trains Message: 17650 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Incredible bidding on a 952G.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17651 From: af21115 Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: E-Bay Dreamer Of The Week
Group: S-Trains Message: 17652 From: srgriggs Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Incredible bidding on a 952G.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17653 From: David Dewey Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Incredible bidding on a 952G.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17654 From: john4flyer Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: E-Unit Help
Group: S-Trains Message: 17655 From: Scott Brown Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay Angst
Group: S-Trains Message: 17656 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: E-Unit Help
Group: S-Trains Message: 17657 From: Robert Wight Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: making a mail bag standard
Group: S-Trains Message: 17658 From: Neil Trump Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Incredible bidding on a 952G.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17659 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1341
Group: S-Trains Message: 17660 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1338
Group: S-Trains Message: 17661 From: Lance McCold Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Steam Depot 44-tonner
Group: S-Trains Message: 17662 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Incredible bidding on a 952G.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17663 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: E-Unit Help
Group: S-Trains Message: 17664 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: New Hope, PA
Group: S-Trains Message: 17665 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1341
Group: S-Trains Message: 17666 From: ron inscho Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: VIBRATORS
Group: S-Trains Message: 17667 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Vibrators & 8 volt battery
Group: S-Trains Message: 17668 From: Fire Wood Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: ebay 1706960876
Group: S-Trains Message: 17669 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: New Hope, PA
Group: S-Trains Message: 17670 From: Dan Brindell Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1341
Group: S-Trains Message: 17671 From: TED R LARSON Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: web pages
Group: S-Trains Message: 17672 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Columbus GATS
Group: S-Trains Message: 17673 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Ebay Story
Group: S-Trains Message: 17674 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 17675 From: srgriggs Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Incredible bidding on a 952G.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17676 From: jahoozdumm Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Incredible bidding on a 952G.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17677 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: ebay 1706960876
Group: S-Trains Message: 17678 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Life (was Re: New Hope, PA)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17679 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Mel's Diner
Group: S-Trains Message: 17680 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay Dreamer Of The Week
Group: S-Trains Message: 17681 From: erielackawanna76 Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: American Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 17682 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Fw: Question for seller -- Item #1708251937
Group: S-Trains Message: 17683 From: Tom Rolfsmeyer Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 17684 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay Dreamer Of The Week
Group: S-Trains Message: 17685 From: Paul Yorke Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: op's in Cleveland
Group: S-Trains Message: 17686 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: incredible bidding on a 952G
Group: S-Trains Message: 17687 From: David Dewey Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Question for seller -- Item #1708251937
Group: S-Trains Message: 17688 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay dreamer of the day
Group: S-Trains Message: 17689 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Question for seller -- Item #1708251937
Group: S-Trains Message: 17690 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay dreamer of the day
Group: S-Trains Message: 17691 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 17692 From: David Dewey Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 17693 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay dreamer of the day
Group: S-Trains Message: 17694 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay dreamer of the day
Group: S-Trains Message: 17695 From: af21115 Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay dreamer of the day
Group: S-Trains Message: 17696 From: Robert Wight Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: 495 "O" AF passenger car
Group: S-Trains Message: 17697 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay dreamer of the day
Group: S-Trains Message: 17698 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Fw: Question for seller -- Item #1708251937
Group: S-Trains Message: 17699 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay dreamer of the day
Group: S-Trains Message: 17700 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: DO IT YOURSELF DECALS
Group: S-Trains Message: 17701 From: Dan Brindell Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 17702 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay dreamer of the day
Group: S-Trains Message: 17703 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 17704 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay dreamer of the day
Group: S-Trains Message: 17705 From: Mike Vana Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: E-Bay dreamer of the day
Group: S-Trains Message: 17706 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Welcome to uComics -- The Best Comic Site In The Universe!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17707 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Welcome to uComics Web Site featuring Tom the Dancing Bug -- The Be
Group: S-Trains Message: 17708 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: rockets and sticky action doors
Group: S-Trains Message: 17709 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Final Notification: 2002 Flyonel Items
Group: S-Trains Message: 17710 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: AF Estate Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 17711 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: BAR Car Doors
Group: S-Trains Message: 17712 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: 4-6-6-4 Challenger UPDATE
Group: S-Trains Message: 17713 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: rockets and sticky action doors
Group: S-Trains Message: 17714 From: THOMAS E HILLERY Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1346
Group: S-Trains Message: 17715 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: rockets and sticky action doors
Group: S-Trains Message: 17716 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: A/F Tranformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17717 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Funnies and Chatters
Group: S-Trains Message: 17718 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: The infamous 712
Group: S-Trains Message: 17719 From: Scott Holm Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: rockets and sticky action doors
Group: S-Trains Message: 17720 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: The infamous 712
Group: S-Trains Message: 17721 From: crustyfour Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: A/F Tranformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17722 From: crustyfour Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: 4-6-6-4 Challenger UPDATE
Group: S-Trains Message: 17723 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Gilbert decals
Group: S-Trains Message: 17724 From: ron inscho Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: A/F Tranformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17725 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: A/F Tranformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17726 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: 4-6-6-4 Road name & numbers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17727 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: A/F Tranformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17728 From: TWesthelle@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Repo Decals
Group: S-Trains Message: 17729 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Repo Decals
Group: S-Trains Message: 17730 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: A/F Tranformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17731 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: A/F Tranformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17732 From: Thomas Stoltz Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: noisy K5
Group: S-Trains Message: 17733 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: A/F Tranformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17734 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Troublesome Guilford
Group: S-Trains Message: 17735 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: noisy K5
Group: S-Trains Message: 17736 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: A/F Tranformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17737 From: Horn, David Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: the future prices of classic toy trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 17738 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: A/F Tranformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17739 From: Horn, David Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: 652 and heavyweights
Group: S-Trains Message: 17740 From: ron inscho Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: noisy K5
Group: S-Trains Message: 17741 From: ron inscho Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Troublesome Guilford
Group: S-Trains Message: 17742 From: Horn, David Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Guilford station
Group: S-Trains Message: 17743 From: Neimanis,V. [NCR] Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Troublesome Guilford
Group: S-Trains Message: 17744 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: A/F Tranformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17745 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1348
Group: S-Trains Message: 17746 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Junker AM Streamliner desired
Group: S-Trains Message: 17747 From: gino restivo Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: re , noisy k-5 ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17748 From: Horn, David Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Guilford station
Group: S-Trains Message: 17749 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1348
Group: S-Trains Message: 17750 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: k-line
Group: S-Trains Message: 17751 From: hcopter52 Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Guilford Station
Group: S-Trains Message: 17752 From: Fire Wood Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Weekend digest thoughts
Group: S-Trains Message: 17753 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1348
Group: S-Trains Message: 17754 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Guilford station
Group: S-Trains Message: 17755 From: Scott Holm Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: rockets and sticky action doors
Group: S-Trains Message: 17756 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay dreamer of the day
Group: S-Trains Message: 17757 From: Douglass Allen Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: wrinkle paint
Group: S-Trains Message: 17758 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1348
Group: S-Trains Message: 17759 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: wrinkle paint
Group: S-Trains Message: 17760 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1348
Group: S-Trains Message: 17761 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Troublesome Guilford
Group: S-Trains Message: 17762 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: 4-6-6-4 Road name & numbers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17763 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Ebay Puzzle
Group: S-Trains Message: 17764 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: 4-6-6-4 Road name & numbers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17765 From: SSabino39@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 17766 From: john5513211 Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Insurance for Trains.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17767 From: David A. Highfield Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Insurance for Trains.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17768 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay Puzzle
Group: S-Trains Message: 17769 From: Don Thompson Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: k-line
Group: S-Trains Message: 17770 From: notcoldenough Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Replacement Mohair for cattle / people
Group: S-Trains Message: 17771 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay Puzzle
Group: S-Trains Message: 17772 From: Roger Hinds Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: engine bearings
Group: S-Trains Message: 17773 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: rockets and sticky action doors
Group: S-Trains Message: 17774 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: THROTTLE HANDLES
Group: S-Trains Message: 17775 From: Mike Vana Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Gilbert decals
Group: S-Trains Message: 17776 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Guilford station
Group: S-Trains Message: 17777 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 17778 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: 4-6-6-4 Road name & numbers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17779 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: E-BAY PUZZLE
Group: S-Trains Message: 17780 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Guilford Station
Group: S-Trains Message: 17781 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: E-BAY Puzzle
Group: S-Trains Message: 17782 From: Peter Ervin Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Train oriented family resort
Group: S-Trains Message: 17783 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: 4-6-6-4 Road name & numbers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17784 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Road numbers for Challenger project
Group: S-Trains Message: 17785 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: 4-6-6-4 Road name & numbers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17786 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Silly Wabbit!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17787 From: ironhors@swbell.net Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: 652 and heavyweights
Group: S-Trains Message: 17788 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: E-Bay Puzzle
Group: S-Trains Message: 17789 From: Wayne Zebron Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: 474 PA
Group: S-Trains Message: 17790 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: 4-6-6-4 Road name & numbers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17791 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: 4-6-6-4 Road name & numbers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17792 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Replacement Mohair for cattle / people
Group: S-Trains Message: 17793 From: Dan Brindell Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Train oriented family resort
Group: S-Trains Message: 17794 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Train oriented family resort
Group: S-Trains Message: 17795 From: Peter Ervin Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Chuck's fool quote
Group: S-Trains Message: 17796 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay Puzzle
Group: S-Trains Message: 17797 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Train oriented family resort
Group: S-Trains Message: 17798 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Another one of those dumb questions...
Group: S-Trains Message: 17799 From: Peter Ervin Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: When did ACG buy AF?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17800 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Another one of those dumb questions...
Group: S-Trains Message: 17801 From: jahoozdumm Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Another one of those dumb questions..
Group: S-Trains Message: 17802 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: numbering a 4-6-6-4
Group: S-Trains Message: 17803 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Train Insurance
Group: S-Trains Message: 17804 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: The Dewey House
Group: S-Trains Message: 17805 From: Horn, David Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: Spring 2003 Family outing
Group: S-Trains Message: 17806 From: Hannon Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Ebay Featured Auctions Categories
Group: S-Trains Message: 17807 From: Michael Greene Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: Insurance for Trains.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17808 From: David Dewey Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay Featured Auctions Categories
Group: S-Trains Message: 17809 From: David Dewey Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: Insurance for Trains.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17810 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: TCA qusetion
Group: S-Trains Message: 17811 From: hcopter52 Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA Question
Group: S-Trains Message: 17812 From: Michael Greene Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA qusetion
Group: S-Trains Message: 17813 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA question
Group: S-Trains Message: 17814 From: Rhett T. George Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: PANIC
Group: S-Trains Message: 17815 From: Gill W. Lott Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA qusetion
Group: S-Trains Message: 17816 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA question
Group: S-Trains Message: 17817 From: hcopter52 Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA question.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17818 From: ron inscho Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA question. & NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 17819 From: hcopter52 Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: TCA & NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 17820 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: PANIC
Group: S-Trains Message: 17821 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA question.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17822 From: ron inscho Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA & NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 17823 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA question.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17824 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA & NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 17825 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA question.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17826 From: hcopter52 Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: TCA & NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 17827 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: COLORING SMOKE FLUID
Group: S-Trains Message: 17828 From: Gary Chidester Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Spare Jan/Feb. S-Gaugian?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17829 From: David Dewey Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID
Group: S-Trains Message: 17830 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay Puzzle
Group: S-Trains Message: 17831 From: David Dewey Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA & NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 17832 From: Dan Brindell Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA & NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 17833 From: David Dewey Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay Puzzle
Group: S-Trains Message: 17834 From: David Dewey Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Help! ACG Blueprint copies anyone?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17835 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay Puzzle
Group: S-Trains Message: 17836 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA & NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 17837 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID/ AC GILBERT STUFF
Group: S-Trains Message: 17838 From: Michael Greene Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID
Group: S-Trains Message: 17839 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID
Group: S-Trains Message: 17840 From: Don Thompson Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: Tinplate
Group: S-Trains Message: 17841 From: Al Paolozzi Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA question.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17842 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Spring family outing.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17843 From: Doug Peck Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: 474 PA
Group: S-Trains Message: 17844 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1352
Group: S-Trains Message: 17845 From: Douglass Allen Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: wrinkle paint
Group: S-Trains Message: 17846 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: "tinplate" and "hirail"
Group: S-Trains Message: 17847 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: Tinplate
Group: S-Trains Message: 17848 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1352
Group: S-Trains Message: 17849 From: David Dewey Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: wrinkle paint
Group: S-Trains Message: 17850 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID
Group: S-Trains Message: 17851 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Wrinkle Finish
Group: S-Trains Message: 17852 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Tinplate question
Group: S-Trains Message: 17853 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17854 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17855 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID
Group: S-Trains Message: 17856 From: crustyfour Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID
Group: S-Trains Message: 17857 From: jmsdraw Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: NASG 2002 Convention Information
Group: S-Trains Message: 17858 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17859 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Colored Smoke
Group: S-Trains Message: 17860 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Making Scents of Smoke
Group: S-Trains Message: 17861 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17862 From: Alex Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID
Group: S-Trains Message: 17863 From: hcopter52 Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: GABE
Group: S-Trains Message: 17864 From: David Dewey Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: GABE
Group: S-Trains Message: 17865 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: "tinplate" and "hirail"
Group: S-Trains Message: 17866 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Colored Smoke
Group: S-Trains Message: 17867 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17868 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: "tinplate" and "hirail"
Group: S-Trains Message: 17869 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Gabe Vs Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17870 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1352
Group: S-Trains Message: 17871 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: S-gauge Video Vol. IV
Group: S-Trains Message: 17872 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1352
Group: S-Trains Message: 17873 From: ron inscho Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Fw: "FREE" LIONEL CALENDER
Group: S-Trains Message: 17874 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1352
Group: S-Trains Message: 17875 From: ron inscho Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID & snakes
Group: S-Trains Message: 17876 From: ron inscho Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: TCA
Group: S-Trains Message: 17877 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: stripping paint from aluminum
Group: S-Trains Message: 17878 From: jfrr54 Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID & snakes
Group: S-Trains Message: 17879 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: BLACK SMOKE FLUID
Group: S-Trains Message: 17880 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Erratic K-5?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17881 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Special Rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 17882 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Check out eBay item 1707774372 (Ends Feb-27-02 18:49:37 PST ) - AF
Group: S-Trains Message: 17883 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Auctioneers lack of knowledge!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17884 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID & snakes
Group: S-Trains Message: 17885 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Auctioneers lack of knowledge!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17886 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Snoqualmie
Group: S-Trains Message: 17887 From: af21115 Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Special Rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 17888 From: Dan Brindell Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Train oriented family resort
Group: S-Trains Message: 17889 From: notcoldenough Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17890 From: Dan Brindell Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID
Group: S-Trains Message: 17891 From: Bill Lane Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Pennsy S Models X-29 Update
Group: S-Trains Message: 17892 From: Dan Brindell Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Tinplate definition
Group: S-Trains Message: 17893 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: S-gauge Video Vol. IV
Group: S-Trains Message: 17894 From: The Reis's Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Snoqualmie
Group: S-Trains Message: 17895 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17896 From: drgw489@aol.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: John Huster
Group: S-Trains Message: 17897 From: ron inscho Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Tinplate definition
Group: S-Trains Message: 17898 From: David Dewey Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Tinplate definition
Group: S-Trains Message: 17899 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Highrail for sure
Group: S-Trains Message: 17900 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: REPLY
Group: S-Trains Message: 17901 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Tinplate definition
Group: S-Trains Message: 17902 From: aztecfan Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Great clinic.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17903 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17904 From: notcoldenough Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17905 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: REPLY
Group: S-Trains Message: 17906 From: af21115 Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: E-Bay In Your Face O/T
Group: S-Trains Message: 17907 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17908 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: stripping paint from aluminum
Group: S-Trains Message: 17909 From: Gene Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID
Group: S-Trains Message: 17910 From: Gene Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: BLACK SMOKE FLUID
Group: S-Trains Message: 17911 From: hcopter52 Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Excessive Sparking
Group: S-Trains Message: 17912 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17913 From: John A. Conant Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID (snakes)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17914 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
Group: S-Trains Message: 17915 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: BLACK SMOKE FLUID
Group: S-Trains Message: 17916 From: Horn, David Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: black smoke snakes
Group: S-Trains Message: 17917 From: Horn, David Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: coal, steam and other LVTS scented smoke fluids
Group: S-Trains Message: 17918 From: Horn, David Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17919 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Tinplate
Group: S-Trains Message: 17920 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID (snakes)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17921 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: BLACK SMOKE FLUID
Group: S-Trains Message: 17922 From: hcopter52 Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: Tinplate
Group: S-Trains Message: 17923 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: stripping paint from aluminum
Group: S-Trains Message: 17924 From: ljack70117@adelphia.net Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1352
Group: S-Trains Message: 17925 From: tallcornac@aol.com Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: LTI American Flyer boxed sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 17926 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Coal Loader
Group: S-Trains Message: 17927 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17928 From: Horn, David Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17929 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Learning electronics
Group: S-Trains Message: 17930 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Gilbert HO Signal
Group: S-Trains Message: 17931 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: Learning electronics
Group: S-Trains Message: 17932 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: AF and Bachman ON3
Group: S-Trains Message: 17933 From: Jerry Hiett Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID (snakes)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17934 From: srgriggs Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: Coal Loader
Group: S-Trains Message: 17935 From: Jerry Hiett Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: Learning electronics
Group: S-Trains Message: 17936 From: TED R LARSON Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Divco
Group: S-Trains Message: 17937 From: Mark Preman Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 17938 From: Horn, David Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17939 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: The virtual growth of our hobby
Group: S-Trains Message: 17940 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17941 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17942 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17943 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17944 From: notcoldenough Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Gabe - I just had to take it apart!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17945 From: Alex Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Re: Learning electronics
Group: S-Trains Message: 17946 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Lionel and MTH Gabe's
Group: S-Trains Message: 17947 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Learning Electronics
Group: S-Trains Message: 17948 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel and MTH Gabe's
Group: S-Trains Message: 17949 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 17950 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: ALERT
Group: S-Trains Message: 17951 From: mlmarmer Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Re: ALERT
Group: S-Trains Message: 17952 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: MTH Sawmill Fix
Group: S-Trains Message: 17953 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: U K group.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17954 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel and MTH Gabe's
Group: S-Trains Message: 17955 From: ironhors@swbell.net Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Re: ALERT
Group: S-Trains Message: 17956 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Lionel Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17957 From: Clifford Manning Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: track trip
Group: S-Trains Message: 17958 From: Jim Carnes Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17959 From: Horn, David Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17960 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: More Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17961 From: TED R LARSON Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Runaway
Group: S-Trains Message: 17962 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Re: Learning Electronics
Group: S-Trains Message: 17963 From: ac312 Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Re: coal loaders
Group: S-Trains Message: 17964 From: ac312 Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Funny Thing!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17965 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 17966 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Maunal Switch Fix
Group: S-Trains Message: 17967 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
Group: S-Trains Message: 17968 From: WNHOLCOMB@aol.com Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Painting Men
Group: S-Trains Message: 17969 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
Group: S-Trains Message: 17970 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Re: sparking
Group: S-Trains Message: 17971 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: SPARKING
Group: S-Trains Message: 17972 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: Cleaning Old Track
Group: S-Trains Message: 17973 From: Paul Yorke Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning Old Track
Group: S-Trains Message: 17974 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: cleaning old track
Group: S-Trains Message: 17975 From: David Dewey Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning Old Track
Group: S-Trains Message: 17976 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: Re: Runaway (thread)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17977 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning Old Track
Group: S-Trains Message: 17978 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: train trip
Group: S-Trains Message: 17979 From: jfred436@yahoo.com Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#1708235662: 944 American Fly
Group: S-Trains Message: 17980 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 17981 From: lou342ac Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: Conversion
Group: S-Trains Message: 17982 From: Robert Wight Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: Conversion
Group: S-Trains Message: 17983 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: rocket freight
Group: S-Trains Message: 17984 From: bassflyer Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: Got my Lionel-Flyer Gabe today......
Group: S-Trains Message: 17985 From: Clifford Manning Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: replacement or repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 17986 From: ded1939 Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: Sunday chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 17987 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
Group: S-Trains Message: 17988 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: TRACK CLEANING
Group: S-Trains Message: 17989 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: TRACK CLEANING
Group: S-Trains Message: 17990 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: HANDLES
Group: S-Trains Message: 17991 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Cleaning old cruddy Flyer track
Group: S-Trains Message: 17992 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: $$$
Group: S-Trains Message: 17993 From: TED R LARSON Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Steam Engine
Group: S-Trains Message: 17994 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: TRACK CLEANING
Group: S-Trains Message: 17995 From: Horn, David Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: sparking
Group: S-Trains Message: 17996 From: Doug Peck Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: Cailube
Group: S-Trains Message: 17997 From: jfrr54 Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: We're back online
Group: S-Trains Message: 17998 From: Horn, David Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: Caig products
Group: S-Trains Message: 17999 From: Fire Wood Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: 0-6-0T switcher on Ebay?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18000 From: Ms. Judy Messinger Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Fw:New Dockside Switcher
Group: S-Trains Message: 18001 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
Group: S-Trains Message: 18002 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: testing - delete this
Group: S-Trains Message: 18003 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: TRACK CLEANING
Group: S-Trains Message: 18004 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
Group: S-Trains Message: 18005 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
Group: S-Trains Message: 18006 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
Group: S-Trains Message: 18007 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Bachman On30
Group: S-Trains Message: 18008 From: ron inscho Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: 0-6-0T switcher on Ebay?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18009 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: 0-6-0T switcher on Ebay?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18010 From: Horn, David Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] RE:sparking
Group: S-Trains Message: 18011 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: sparking
Group: S-Trains Message: 18012 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
Group: S-Trains Message: 18013 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: TRACK CLEANING? Oil
Group: S-Trains Message: 18014 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: TRACK CLEANING
Group: S-Trains Message: 18015 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: track
Group: S-Trains Message: 18016 From: mlmarmer Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: 0-6-0T switcher on Ebay?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18017 From: SMASTER636@aol.com Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Track Cleaning
Group: S-Trains Message: 18018 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Excessive Sparking
Group: S-Trains Message: 18019 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: track
Group: S-Trains Message: 18020 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
Group: S-Trains Message: 18021 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Yahoooooooooooo!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18022 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: 5 digit reverse units
Group: S-Trains Message: 18023 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Speaker insulation
Group: S-Trains Message: 18024 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: sparking(once more)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18025 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: 5digit reverse units
Group: S-Trains Message: 18026 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: Cailube
Group: S-Trains Message: 18027 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
Group: S-Trains Message: 18028 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
Group: S-Trains Message: 18029 From: bassflyer Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: I uploaded some pics at S-Trains.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18030 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: Caig products
Group: S-Trains Message: 18031 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
Group: S-Trains Message: 18032 From: af21115 Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: 0-6-0T switcher on Ebay?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18033 From: Don Thompson Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: 0-6-0T switcher on Ebay?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18034 From: bassflyer Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: I uploaded some pics at S-Trains.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18035 From: mlmarmer Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: 0-6-0T switcher on Ebay?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18036 From: royhoffman Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: I uploaded some pics at S-Trains.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18037 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Caig Labs (was: Excessive Sparking)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18038 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Caig Labs
Group: S-Trains Message: 18039 From: Scott Brown Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: S Gauge Beanie Babies
Group: S-Trains Message: 18040 From: Roy E. Plotnick Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Track Cleaning
Group: S-Trains Message: 18041 From: Alex Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: I uploaded some pics at S-Trains.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18042 From: David Dewey Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: SP 4449, the Daylight to be in American Freedom Train Colors again.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18043 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Real or Repro?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18044 From: Don Thompson Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: Bachman On30
Group: S-Trains Message: 18045 From: Roger Delthony Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Track Cleaning
Group: S-Trains Message: 18046 From: Clay Buckage Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: York Primer
Group: S-Trains Message: 18047 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: The Caig List
Group: S-Trains Message: 18048 From: crustyfour Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: Track Cleaning
Group: S-Trains Message: 18049 From: roy inman Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: S Fest car
Group: S-Trains Message: 18050 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: Caig List
Group: S-Trains Message: 18051 From: Scott Brown Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: track
Group: S-Trains Message: 18052 From: The Reis's Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Blatant sale of cheap SHS stuff
Group: S-Trains Message: 18053 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: 0-6-0T switcher on Ebay?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18054 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: I uploaded some pics at S-Trains.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18055 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: New pics
Group: S-Trains Message: 18056 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Video questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 18057 From: royhoffman Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: TCA Website
Group: S-Trains Message: 18058 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Calendar
Group: S-Trains Message: 18059 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Caig List
Group: S-Trains Message: 18060 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge Beanie Babies
Group: S-Trains Message: 18061 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: 4449 AFT
Group: S-Trains Message: 18062 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: 0-6-0T switcher on Ebay?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18063 From: David Dewey Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: 0-6-0T switcher on Ebay?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18064 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Lost messages???
Group: S-Trains Message: 18065 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Repost: 6 wheel tender question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18066 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: 6 axle tender question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18067 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Repost: 6 wheel tender question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18068 From: pieter_roos Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: Bachman On30
Group: S-Trains Message: 18069 From: yazfacts Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: 302-New Pulmor Tires......
Group: S-Trains Message: 18070 From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: Bachman On30
Group: S-Trains Message: 18071 From: royhoffman Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: Lost messages???
Group: S-Trains Message: 18072 From: crustyfour Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: Bachman On30
Group: S-Trains Message: 18073 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Reply- Track Cleaning
Group: S-Trains Message: 18074 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: 6 axle tender question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18075 From: David Dewey Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: 302-New Pulmor Tires......
Group: S-Trains Message: 18076 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: 6 wheel tender question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18077 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: Caig List
Group: S-Trains Message: 18078 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: AF Track Cleaning
Group: S-Trains Message: 18079 From: gino restivo Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: re ; spaarking , oiling track
Group: S-Trains Message: 18080 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Small spaces
Group: S-Trains Message: 18081 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Oddball GG-1
Group: S-Trains Message: 18082 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Whitewall repairs
Group: S-Trains Message: 18083 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Boring American Flyer layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18084 From: ron inscho Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: Oddball GG-1
Group: S-Trains Message: 18085 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: Boring American Flyer layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18086 From: aag_rlg Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Loading Platform
Group: S-Trains Message: 18087 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: Reply- Track Cleaning
Group: S-Trains Message: 18088 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: Boring American Flyer layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18089 From: David Dewey Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: Whitewall repairs
Group: S-Trains Message: 18090 From: Euell Johnson Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: Boring American Flyer layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18091 From: af21115 Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Boring American Flyer layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18092 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Loading Platform
Group: S-Trains Message: 18093 From: royhoffman Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Boring American Flyer layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18094 From: rodgers_carl Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Whitewall repairs
Group: S-Trains Message: 18095 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Loading Platform
Group: S-Trains Message: 18096 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Calendar
Group: S-Trains Message: 18097 From: royhoffman Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Calendar
Group: S-Trains Message: 18098 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Whitewall repairs
Group: S-Trains Message: 18099 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Boring American Flyer layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18100 From: jfrr54 Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Boring American Flyer layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18101 From: David Dewey Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: 302-New Pulmor Tires.--A clarification
Group: S-Trains Message: 18102 From: Neil Trump Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: 302-New Pulmor Tires......
Group: S-Trains Message: 18103 From: rodgers_carl Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Whitewall repairs
Group: S-Trains Message: 18104 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Whitewall repairs
Group: S-Trains Message: 18105 From: David Dewey Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Whitewall repairs
Group: S-Trains Message: 18106 From: David Dewey Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Boring American Flyer layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18107 From: srgriggs Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Oddball GG-1
Group: S-Trains Message: 18108 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Small spaces
Group: S-Trains Message: 18109 From: crustyfour Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Laying Homosote
Group: S-Trains Message: 18110 From: Gene Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Laying Homosote
Group: S-Trains Message: 18111 From: ron inscho Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Oddball GG-1
Group: S-Trains Message: 18112 From: nasglibrary Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Russell M. Mobley Memorial Library
Group: S-Trains Message: 18113 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1363
Group: S-Trains Message: 18114 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: AF Trestle set
Group: S-Trains Message: 18115 From: Alan C Udy Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Current Meter
Group: S-Trains Message: 18116 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18117 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Laying Homosote
Group: S-Trains Message: 18118 From: bassflyer Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: I uploaded some more pics..........
Group: S-Trains Message: 18119 From: bassflyer Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Test!! Delete.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18120 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Caig Update
Group: S-Trains Message: 18121 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Laying Homosote
Group: S-Trains Message: 18122 From: imsscott Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Caig products
Group: S-Trains Message: 18123 From: Lance McCold Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Boring American Flyer layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18124 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Small spaces
Group: S-Trains Message: 18125 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Small spaces
Group: S-Trains Message: 18126 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: AF Trestle set
Group: S-Trains Message: 18127 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: whitewall repairs
Group: S-Trains Message: 18128 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Hams for Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 18129 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: whitewall repairs
Group: S-Trains Message: 18130 From: Steve Blancard Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: installing Homasote
Group: S-Trains Message: 18131 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Boring American Flyer layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18132 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 18133 From: notcoldenough Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Replacement Mohair for cattle / people
Group: S-Trains Message: 18134 From: M.McConnell Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Current Meter
Group: S-Trains Message: 18135 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: My layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 18136 From: notcoldenough Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Loading Platform
Group: S-Trains Message: 18137 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Boring American Flyer layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18138 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Reply- Track Cleaning
Group: S-Trains Message: 18139 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Loading Platform
Group: S-Trains Message: 18140 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: R5 Power booster and reversing handcar
Group: S-Trains Message: 18141 From: Lance McCold Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: SHS flex track
Group: S-Trains Message: 18142 From: jnr59@aol.com Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Laying Homosote
Group: S-Trains Message: 18143 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Loading Platform
Group: S-Trains Message: 18144 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Laying Homosote
Group: S-Trains Message: 18145 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: S scale airplanes
Group: S-Trains Message: 18146 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1368
Group: S-Trains Message: 18147 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Loading Platform
Group: S-Trains Message: 18148 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Re: My layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 18149 From: trzp1800 Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Truck Repairs
Group: S-Trains Message: 18150 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Re: My layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 18151 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Re: Truck Repairs
Group: S-Trains Message: 18152 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Imfeld GG1 on E-Bay (was Oddball GG1)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18153 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Re: Loading Platform
Group: S-Trains Message: 18154 From: David Dewey Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Re: Truck Repairs
Group: S-Trains Message: 18155 From: David Dewey Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Boring layouts, Flyer Chat & a train show!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18156 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: power & putts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18157 From: ron inscho Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: GG 1 's
Group: S-Trains Message: 18158 From: Roger Delthony Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Re: Reply- Track Cleaning
Group: S-Trains Message: 18159 From: Don Thompson Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Re: SHS flex track
Group: S-Trains Message: 18160 From: John Foley Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: BL-2s and other things
Group: S-Trains Message: 18161 From: TED R LARSON Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: vehicle source
Group: S-Trains Message: 18162 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Re: power & putts/Dick Karnes too.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18163 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: junker shells
Group: S-Trains Message: 18164 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Re: Reply- Track Cleaning
Group: S-Trains Message: 18165 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Note to all
Group: S-Trains Message: 18166 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Re: power & putts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18167 From: Arden Goehring Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [S-Trains] power & putts/Dick Karnes too.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18168 From: Dennis Conway Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [S-Trains] power & putts/Dick Karnes too.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18169 From: Ross Roberts Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Aircraft Display
Group: S-Trains Message: 18170 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 3/10/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [S-Trains] power & putts/Dick Karnes too.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18171 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 3/10/2002
Subject: Tender Shell
Group: S-Trains Message: 18172 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/10/2002
Subject: Personal web pages
Group: S-Trains Message: 18173 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 3/10/2002
Subject: Lookout Junction
Group: S-Trains Message: 18174 From: gunrjoe@aol.com Date: 3/10/2002
Subject: Talking Station Record-How Long do they last??
Group: S-Trains Message: 18175 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/10/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 18176 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 3/10/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 18177 From: Alex Date: 3/10/2002
Subject: Current Meter notes
Group: S-Trains Message: 18178 From: Bill Lane Date: 3/10/2002
Subject: Gus has a truck for sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 18179 From: Roger Delthony Date: 3/10/2002
Subject: Track Cleaning
Group: S-Trains Message: 18180 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 3/10/2002
Subject: interesting item on ebay
Group: S-Trains Message: 18181 From: Jerry Hiett Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 18182 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Re: Track Cleaning and paint
Group: S-Trains Message: 18183 From: Fire Wood Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Current Meter notes
Group: S-Trains Message: 18184 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Re: Current Meter notes
Group: S-Trains Message: 18185 From: John DeFelice Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: milling machine
Group: S-Trains Message: 18186 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 18187 From: rblubaugh01 Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18188 From: Ted Larson Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Steam Depot
Group: S-Trains Message: 18189 From: rblubaugh01 Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: control board
Group: S-Trains Message: 18190 From: rblubaugh01 Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: circuit boards
Group: S-Trains Message: 18191 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: American Flyer Repair Video
Group: S-Trains Message: 18192 From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Re: 3/16
Group: S-Trains Message: 18193 From: crustyfour Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Re: Milling machine..was Boring layouts...
Group: S-Trains Message: 18194 From: Fire Wood Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Mad Scientist meter notes.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18195 From: Don Thompson Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Re: circuit boards
Group: S-Trains Message: 18196 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer Repair Video
Group: S-Trains Message: 18197 From: Roger Delthony Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Track Cleaning
Group: S-Trains Message: 18198 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Manheim Machine & Tool Company Status
Group: S-Trains Message: 18199 From: Lance McCold Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Radio Shack current meter comments
Group: S-Trains Message: 18200 From: TCS Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Fw: Yahoo! Groups Downtime Fri 03/15/01 9PM PST (GMT-8)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18201 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Freedom Train
Group: S-Trains Message: 18202 From: Gill W. Lott Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Yahoo! Groups Downtime Fri 03/15/01 9PM PST (GMT-8)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18203 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: International S-Gauge Day
Group: S-Trains Message: 18204 From: Robert Wight Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: #40 Nichrome Wire
Group: S-Trains Message: 18205 From: Robert Wight Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: nichrome followup
Group: S-Trains Message: 18206 From: imsscott Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Re: nichrome followup
Group: S-Trains Message: 18207 From: imsscott Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Re: control board
Group: S-Trains Message: 18208 From: Rhett T. George Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: St. Gilbert's Day
Group: S-Trains Message: 18209 From: Thomas Stoltz Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: relocating
Group: S-Trains Message: 18210 From: Robert Wight Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Nichrome question explained
Group: S-Trains Message: 18211 From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: K Line track
Group: S-Trains Message: 18212 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Re: International S-Gauge Day
Group: S-Trains Message: 18213 From: gino restivo Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: k-line curve track
Group: S-Trains Message: 18214 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Re: K Line track
Group: S-Trains Message: 18215 From: Jim Carnes Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Searching for SHS boxcars
Group: S-Trains Message: 18216 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: MISSING PERSON
Group: S-Trains Message: 18217 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Denis Conway ou said it all
Group: S-Trains Message: 18218 From: lraymer42420 Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Help me Please !
Group: S-Trains Message: 18219 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Tender Shell
Group: S-Trains Message: 18220 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Re: Help me Please !
Group: S-Trains Message: 18221 From: John L. Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Diesel Horn Activation
Group: S-Trains Message: 18222 From: judgeatkck Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: L&N Boxcar 24066
Group: S-Trains Message: 18223 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Yahoo! Groups Downtime Fri 03/15/01 9PM PST
Group: S-Trains Message: 18224 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Re: Diesel Horn Activation
Group: S-Trains Message: 18225 From: ron inscho Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Re: L&N Boxcar 24066
Group: S-Trains Message: 18226 From: ron inscho Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Re: K Line track other radius track
Group: S-Trains Message: 18227 From: ron inscho Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Fw:
Group: S-Trains Message: 18229 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Caig list
Group: S-Trains Message: 18230 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Yahooooooooooooo!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18231 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Re: K Line track
Group: S-Trains Message: 18232 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: interesting item on ebay 375???
Group: S-Trains Message: 18233 From: roy inman Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: K Line track
Group: S-Trains Message: 18234 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: St. Gilbert's Day
Group: S-Trains Message: 18235 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Nichrome question explained
Group: S-Trains Message: 18236 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Lionel won't service Flyer?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18237 From: David Dewey Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Nichrome question explained
Group: S-Trains Message: 18238 From: David Dewey Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: St. Gilbert's Day
Group: S-Trains Message: 18239 From: ron inscho Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel won't service Flyer?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18240 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: St. Gilbert's Day
Group: S-Trains Message: 18241 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Nice car on e-Bay
Group: S-Trains Message: 18242 From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: K Line track
Group: S-Trains Message: 18243 From: bassflyer Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Yahoo! Groups ....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18244 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel won't service Flyer?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18245 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Diesel Horn Activation
Group: S-Trains Message: 18246 From: Horn, David Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: vibrating people/cattle pad
Group: S-Trains Message: 18247 From: imsscott Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Diesel Horn Activation
Group: S-Trains Message: 18248 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Diesel Horn Activation
Group: S-Trains Message: 18249 From: Horn, David Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: B&O Museum 175th Anniversary events
Group: S-Trains Message: 18250 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Nice car on e-Bay
Group: S-Trains Message: 18251 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: St. Gilbert's Day
Group: S-Trains Message: 18252 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Nice car on e-Bay
Group: S-Trains Message: 18253 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: interesting item on ebay 375???
Group: S-Trains Message: 18254 From: Rick Evans Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Yahoo! Groups ....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18255 From: Rick Evans Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Yahoo! Groups ....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18256 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel won't service Flyer?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18257 From: Lance McCold Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: track bending / unbending jig for flyer track
Group: S-Trains Message: 18258 From: Wayne and Alice Beachy Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: S gauge Southern PA set
Group: S-Trains Message: 18259 From: judgeatkck Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Klean n Shine
Group: S-Trains Message: 18260 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: K Line track
Group: S-Trains Message: 18261 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Yahoo! Groups ....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18262 From: mfjdunn@bellsouth.net Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: needed items
Group: S-Trains Message: 18263 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Identifying locomotives
Group: S-Trains Message: 18264 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Identifying locomotives
Group: S-Trains Message: 18265 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Identifying locomotives
Group: S-Trains Message: 18266 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Virginian parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18267 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: tender shell
Group: S-Trains Message: 18268 From: David Dewey Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Identifying locomotives
Group: S-Trains Message: 18269 From: John DeFelice Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: 303 wirin harness
Group: S-Trains Message: 18270 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Turntables
Group: S-Trains Message: 18271 From: crustyfour Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Turntables
Group: S-Trains Message: 18272 From: Michael Greene Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Cast your vote today!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18273 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Can motors & video update
Group: S-Trains Message: 18274 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Turntables
Group: S-Trains Message: 18275 From: AF336 Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: 303 wirin harness
Group: S-Trains Message: 18276 From: Robert Wight Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Hobo's
Group: S-Trains Message: 18277 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Turntables
Group: S-Trains Message: 18278 From: crustyfour Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Can motors & video update
Group: S-Trains Message: 18279 From: crustyfour Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: 25515 Motorized Rocket Sled
Group: S-Trains Message: 18280 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Jacksonville area
Group: S-Trains Message: 18281 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: 25515 Motorized Rocket Sled
Group: S-Trains Message: 18282 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Hobo's
Group: S-Trains Message: 18283 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1375
Group: S-Trains Message: 18284 From: richgajnak Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Identifying locomotives
Group: S-Trains Message: 18285 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: New Gear Reduction DC Can Motor Conversion Kit
Group: S-Trains Message: 18286 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1376
Group: S-Trains Message: 18287 From: ironhors@swbell.net Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: 25515 Motorized Rocket Sled
Group: S-Trains Message: 18288 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Caig List -- Again!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18289 From: Gale Hall Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Amp probe
Group: S-Trains Message: 18290 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Amp probe
Group: S-Trains Message: 18291 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Amp probe
Group: S-Trains Message: 18292 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Amp probe
Group: S-Trains Message: 18293 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Hydrocal vs Plaster?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18294 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: 303 wire harness
Group: S-Trains Message: 18295 From: Jerry Hiett Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Yahoo! Groups ....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18296 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Amp probe
Group: S-Trains Message: 18297 From: notcoldenough Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Hydrocal vs Plaster?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18298 From: Robert Wight Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Poor Photos of my small layout in progress
Group: S-Trains Message: 18299 From: af21115 Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Yahoo! Groups ....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18300 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Hydrocal vs Plaster?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18301 From: jfrr54 Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Hydrocal vs Plaster?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18302 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Flyer in Pittsburgh?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18303 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer in Pittsburgh?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18304 From: John DeFelice Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: 303 wiring
Group: S-Trains Message: 18305 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Poor Photos of my small layout in progress
Group: S-Trains Message: 18306 From: hgetrain Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: OGR Forum Discusses S
Group: S-Trains Message: 18307 From: AF336 Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: OGR Forum Discusses S
Group: S-Trains Message: 18308 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: AMMETERS
Group: S-Trains Message: 18309 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Gilbert rocket sled prototype?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18310 From: aglorince Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer in Pittsburgh?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18311 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1377
Group: S-Trains Message: 18312 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: 1946 322 Hudson
Group: S-Trains Message: 18313 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: AMMETERS
Group: S-Trains Message: 18314 From: Alan C Udy Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Car Interior Temperatures - Potential for Damage to our Trains?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18315 From: srgriggs Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: 1946 322 Hudson
Group: S-Trains Message: 18316 From: Knight, Gene Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer in Pittsburgh?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18317 From: AF336 Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Gulp!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18318 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 18319 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: rocket sled prototype
Group: S-Trains Message: 18320 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Gulp!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18321 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Gulp!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18322 From: Paul Yorke Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Rocket Sled Prototype
Group: S-Trains Message: 18323 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Gulp!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18324 From: Tom Pennington Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Gulp!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18325 From: M.McConnell Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: AMMETERS
Group: S-Trains Message: 18326 From: Don Thompson Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: AMMETERS
Group: S-Trains Message: 18327 From: roberte613@aol.com Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Re: Hydrocal vs. Plaster
Group: S-Trains Message: 18328 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Re: Identifying locomotives
Group: S-Trains Message: 18329 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: the purpose of old s gaugians
Group: S-Trains Message: 18330 From: M.McConnell Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Re: AMMETERS
Group: S-Trains Message: 18331 From: ron inscho Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Re: rocket sled prototype
Group: S-Trains Message: 18332 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Water Putty ???
Group: S-Trains Message: 18333 From: roy inman Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Unsubscribe
Group: S-Trains Message: 18334 From: Tom Young Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] RE: AMMETERS]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18335 From: David Dewey Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 18336 From: Paul Yorke Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Current Sensor - 'The Detective'
Group: S-Trains Message: 18337 From: David Dewey Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Re: AMMETERS
Group: S-Trains Message: 18338 From: Robert Wight Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Yahoo trouble?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18339 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: S-trains chat room working at 5 pm est..
Group: S-Trains Message: 18340 From: Dick Kuepper Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 18341 From: Dale Smith Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Re: 1946 322 Hudson
Group: S-Trains Message: 18342 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: S-trains Chat Room working at 5 pm est...
Group: S-Trains Message: 18343 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: #769 Aircraft Beacon
Group: S-Trains Message: 18344 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Rail King Operating Station
Group: S-Trains Message: 18345 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Re: 769 Beacon
Group: S-Trains Message: 18346 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 18347 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: 769 Beacon
Group: S-Trains Message: 18348 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: Rail King Operating Station
Group: S-Trains Message: 18349 From: rfgiardina Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: New Part Suggestions
Group: S-Trains Message: 18350 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1379
Group: S-Trains Message: 18351 From: crustyfour Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: Rail King Operating Station
Group: S-Trains Message: 18352 From: crustyfour Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: New Part Suggestions
Group: S-Trains Message: 18353 From: Horn, David Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: I'm a Rocket (sled) Man.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18354 From: Horn, David Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: what a ride
Group: S-Trains Message: 18355 From: Gill W. Lott Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: I'm a Rocket (sled) Man.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18356 From: af21115 Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: AH... Truth In Advertising. E-Bay Funny
Group: S-Trains Message: 18357 From: bassflyer Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: "Torpedo Jones"---by Hot Wheels
Group: S-Trains Message: 18358 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: New Part Suggestions
Group: S-Trains Message: 18359 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: plastic structural shapes
Group: S-Trains Message: 18360 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: New Part Suggestions
Group: S-Trains Message: 18361 From: Tom Pennington Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: New Part Suggestions
Group: S-Trains Message: 18362 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Structural parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18363 From: af21115 Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: New Part Suggestions
Group: S-Trains Message: 18364 From: Rhett T. George Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: DC motors
Group: S-Trains Message: 18365 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: Rail King Operating Station
Group: S-Trains Message: 18366 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: what a ride
Group: S-Trains Message: 18367 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: Rail King Operating Station
Group: S-Trains Message: 18368 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: Rail King Operating Station
Group: S-Trains Message: 18369 From: gino restivo Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: part suggestions ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18370 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Anyone got an email address for Steve Amatto?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18371 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Ammeter
Group: S-Trains Message: 18372 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Lead Sled (was Re: I'm a Rocket (sled) Man.....)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18373 From: rj4010d Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: repro parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18374 From: Mike Vana Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: New Part Suggestions
Group: S-Trains Message: 18375 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: New Part Suggestions
Group: S-Trains Message: 18376 From: Mike Vana Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Doubleheading AF Steam
Group: S-Trains Message: 18377 From: Steve Blancard Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Bachmann ON30 Gondola conversion
Group: S-Trains Message: 18378 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Second Generation Can Motors
Group: S-Trains Message: 18379 From: fahrwud Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Cloth-covered wire
Group: S-Trains Message: 18380 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: New part suggestions
Group: S-Trains Message: 18381 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: Rail King Operating Station
Group: S-Trains Message: 18382 From: Hannon Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: R.F.G.: New Parts Suggestions
Group: S-Trains Message: 18383 From: Doug Peck Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: (S-Trains) MTH Stations, and wire
Group: S-Trains Message: 18384 From: rfgiardina Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: New part suggestions
Group: S-Trains Message: 18386 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: Re: Can motors & video update
Group: S-Trains Message: 18387 From: Horn, David Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: replacement part
Group: S-Trains Message: 18388 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: 654 doors
Group: S-Trains Message: 18389 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: Re: New Part Suggestions
Group: S-Trains Message: 18390 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: 654 doors
Group: S-Trains Message: 18391 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: New people, new trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 18392 From: crustyfour Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: Re: New Part Suggestions
Group: S-Trains Message: 18393 From: gino restivo Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: re ; franklin stlye boiler frt
Group: S-Trains Message: 18394 From: gino restivo Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: re ; unavailable parts ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18395 From: Al Paolozzi Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: Re: New Part Suggestions
Group: S-Trains Message: 18396 From: dougwyatt Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: S-Scale Hobby Shops
Group: S-Trains Message: 18397 From: jfrr54 Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: Re: re ; unavailable parts ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18398 From: Michael Greene Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: NASG Web site links
Group: S-Trains Message: 18399 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: New part
Group: S-Trains Message: 18400 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1380
Group: S-Trains Message: 18401 From: John Foley Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: MM&T
Group: S-Trains Message: 18402 From: crustyfour Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1380
Group: S-Trains Message: 18403 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: Re: New part
Group: S-Trains Message: 18404 From: gino restivo Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: re ; mail returned from d.garber
Group: S-Trains Message: 18405 From: bassflyer Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: Crossovers & Franklin shells.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18406 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: layouts to look at
Group: S-Trains Message: 18407 From: bassflyer Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: Re: Bachmann ON30 Gondola conversion
Group: S-Trains Message: 18408 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: Re: layouts to look at
Group: S-Trains Message: 18409 From: David Dewey Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Cloth-covered wire
Group: S-Trains Message: 18410 From: David Dewey Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: replacement part
Group: S-Trains Message: 18411 From: royhoffman Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: layouts to look at
Group: S-Trains Message: 18412 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: New part
Group: S-Trains Message: 18413 From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: replacement parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18414 From: Horn, David Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: replacement part
Group: S-Trains Message: 18415 From: John DeFelice Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: ball bearings (was replacement parts)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18416 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Cloth-covered wire
Group: S-Trains Message: 18417 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: ball bearings (was replacement parts)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18418 From: John DeFelice Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Cloth covered wire
Group: S-Trains Message: 18419 From: Jim Carnes Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Hydrocal vs Plaster?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18420 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: ball bearings (was replacement parts)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18421 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Cloth covered wire
Group: S-Trains Message: 18422 From: Donald Abrams Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Clamshell--how low will it go?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18423 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: super flex wire
Group: S-Trains Message: 18424 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Crossovers & Franklin shells.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18425 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Project
Group: S-Trains Message: 18426 From: Clifford Manning Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: replacement part
Group: S-Trains Message: 18427 From: Clifford Manning Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: soldering
Group: S-Trains Message: 18428 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Clamshell--how low will it go?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18429 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Project
Group: S-Trains Message: 18430 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: soldering
Group: S-Trains Message: 18431 From: crustyfour Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: soldering
Group: S-Trains Message: 18432 From: Paul Yorke Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: S-Gauge Model Railroading Volume IV
Group: S-Trains Message: 18433 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: soldering
Group: S-Trains Message: 18434 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: super flex wire
Group: S-Trains Message: 18435 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: soldering
Group: S-Trains Message: 18436 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Project
Group: S-Trains Message: 18437 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: soldering
Group: S-Trains Message: 18438 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Project
Group: S-Trains Message: 18439 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: New Part Suggestions - Franklin headlights
Group: S-Trains Message: 18440 From: gino restivo Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: re, mail failure ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18441 From: Doug Peck Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Franklin boiler fronts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18442 From: David Dewey Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Project
Group: S-Trains Message: 18443 From: Doug Peck Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Wire, Rubber stamps, & clamshells
Group: S-Trains Message: 18444 From: David Dewey Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: ball bearings (was replacement parts)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18445 From: Steve Blancard Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Franklin headlights
Group: S-Trains Message: 18446 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: S-Scale Hobby Shops
Group: S-Trains Message: 18447 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1383
Group: S-Trains Message: 18448 From: gino restivo Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: re ; franklin headlites
Group: S-Trains Message: 18449 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Route 66 trip
Group: S-Trains Message: 18450 From: Lance McCold Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: New repro item
Group: S-Trains Message: 18451 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Route 66 trip
Group: S-Trains Message: 18452 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Bachmann ON30 Gondola conversion
Group: S-Trains Message: 18453 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Train Show Display
Group: S-Trains Message: 18454 From: Peter Ervin Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Rail and track gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 18455 From: Steve Blancard Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: re ; franklin headlites
Group: S-Trains Message: 18456 From: THOMAS E HILLERY Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1382
Group: S-Trains Message: 18457 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: replacement part
Group: S-Trains Message: 18458 From: Horn, David Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Re: replacement/ball bearings
Group: S-Trains Message: 18459 From: David Dewey Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Axle bushings: was RE:replacement part
Group: S-Trains Message: 18460 From: rfgiardina Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Re: Axle bushings: was RE:replacement part
Group: S-Trains Message: 18461 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Driving for "S"
Group: S-Trains Message: 18462 From: Robert Wight Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: My beginning layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 18463 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: 30B meters
Group: S-Trains Message: 18464 From: crustyfour Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Re: 30B meters & smoke fluid
Group: S-Trains Message: 18465 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Re: 30B meters & smoke fluid
Group: S-Trains Message: 18466 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1384
Group: S-Trains Message: 18467 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Axle bushings: was RE:replacement part
Group: S-Trains Message: 18468 From: Steve Blancard Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Re: 30B meters & smoke fluid
Group: S-Trains Message: 18469 From: david.avedesian@clarkconstruction.com Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: 30-60 Degree Crossovers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18470 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Replacement parts and question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18471 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Re: 30-60 Degree Crossovers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18472 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Re: 30-60 Degree Crossovers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18473 From: Bill Lane Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: brake wheel
Group: S-Trains Message: 18474 From: rj4010d Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Arcing in bushings
Group: S-Trains Message: 18475 From: Don Thompson Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Re: brake wheel
Group: S-Trains Message: 18476 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: The great coupler experiment (work in progress)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18477 From: Gary - Manti Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Want to trade?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18479 From: Don Thompson Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: Photos from SHS Warehouse Warming
Group: S-Trains Message: 18480 From: Don Thompson Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: Overweight SHS pulpwood cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 18481 From: kempfam@aol.com Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Route 66
Group: S-Trains Message: 18482 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: The great coupler experiment (work in progress)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18483 From: finerty, paul Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: LTI PA chassis
Group: S-Trains Message: 18484 From: royhoffman Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: The great coupler experiment (work in progress)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18485 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Ebay item
Group: S-Trains Message: 18486 From: ron inscho Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay item
Group: S-Trains Message: 18487 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Can Motors
Group: S-Trains Message: 18488 From: Rick Evans Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: On30 caboose conversion....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18489 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: 18B & 30B TRANSFORMERS
Group: S-Trains Message: 18490 From: Peter Ervin Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Timonium this weekend?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18491 From: Steve Blancard Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: On30 caboose conversion....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18492 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: Timonium this weekend?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18493 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: 18B & 30B TRANSFORMERS
Group: S-Trains Message: 18494 From: gino restivo Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: re ; MD. area shows
Group: S-Trains Message: 18495 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: re ; MD. area shows
Group: S-Trains Message: 18496 From: Horn, David Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Lionel Gabe operation tips
Group: S-Trains Message: 18497 From: crustyfour Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Bachmann ON30 conversion to S photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 18498 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 18499 From: crustyfour Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Steamer front coupler drawing
Group: S-Trains Message: 18500 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: Steamer front coupler drawing
Group: S-Trains Message: 18501 From: Don Thompson Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: On30 caboose conversion....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18502 From: Steve Blancard Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: Steamer front coupler drawing
Group: S-Trains Message: 18503 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: On30 caboose conversion....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18504 From: gino restivo Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: re, parts n pc's
Group: S-Trains Message: 18505 From: robbyking13 Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: Rail And Track Gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 18506 From: robbyking13 Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: Rail And Track Gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 18507 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: [Fwd: [S-Trains] Train Show Display]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18508 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Train Show layout.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18509 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: replacement/ball bearings
Group: S-Trains Message: 18510 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Hack, Hack, Cough, Cough (was: Re: 30B meters & smoke fluid)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18511 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: SHS Warehouse Warming
Group: S-Trains Message: 18512 From: Bill Lane Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Pennsy S Models Website
Group: S-Trains Message: 18513 From: gawilson Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: AuctionGator.com is back online...collectors service for ebay
Group: S-Trains Message: 18514 From: erielackawanna76 Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Crossing signal flasher circuit
Group: S-Trains Message: 18515 From: Victor Bereskin Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1387
Group: S-Trains Message: 18516 From: Peter Ervin Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Vintage AF code minimum
Group: S-Trains Message: 18517 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Broken Hand Car Nub
Group: S-Trains Message: 18518 From: David Dewey Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: Crossing signal flasher circuit
Group: S-Trains Message: 18519 From: Robert Wight Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: 736 operating car
Group: S-Trains Message: 18520 From: gino restivo Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: re,broken nubs , flasher circuit
Group: S-Trains Message: 18521 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: Vintage AF code minimum
Group: S-Trains Message: 18522 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: crossing signal flasher circuit.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18523 From: Alex Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: Crossing signal flasher circuit
Group: S-Trains Message: 18524 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: Crossing signal flasher circuit
Group: S-Trains Message: 18525 From: bassflyer Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: On30 caboose conversion....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18526 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: On30 caboose conversion....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18527 From: robbyking13 Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: Vintage AF Code Minimum
Group: S-Trains Message: 18528 From: bassflyer Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Mix and match....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18529 From: wsor6045 Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Fwd: The Toy Train Barn
Group: S-Trains Message: 18530 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Show this weekend.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18531 From: Steve Blancard Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: On30 caboose conversion....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18533 From: joe messinger Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: What happened?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18534 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: What happened?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18535 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18536 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18537 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: E-BAY ITEM
Group: S-Trains Message: 18538 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: On30 caboose conversion....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18539 From: kempfam@aol.com Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Fwd: Route 66
Group: S-Trains Message: 18540 From: Robert Wight Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Wow, Im very Sorry
Group: S-Trains Message: 18541 From: af21115 Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: What happened?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18542 From: Paul Yorke Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Links Links and more Links
Group: S-Trains Message: 18543 From: David Dewey Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: Wow, Im very Sorry
Group: S-Trains Message: 18544 From: HOGHEADHAT@AOL.COM Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: hoghead hatwear update
Group: S-Trains Message: 18545 From: Bill Lane Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: A few photos for you
Group: S-Trains Message: 18546 From: roy inman Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Kansas City S Gaugers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18547 From: David Dewey Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: Crossing signal flasher circuit
Group: S-Trains Message: 18548 From: ironhors@swbell.net Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: What happened?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18549 From: David Dewey Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: What happened?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18550 From: af21115 Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: What happened?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18551 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: What happened? ANSWER: E-Bay happened
Group: S-Trains Message: 18552 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: What happened?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18553 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: SELLERS NEGS
Group: S-Trains Message: 18554 From: Victor Bereskin Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1389
Group: S-Trains Message: 18555 From: ironhors@swbell.net Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: Vintage AF Code Minimum
Group: S-Trains Message: 18556 From: David Dewey Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: Vintage AF Code Minimum
Group: S-Trains Message: 18557 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 18558 From: mfjdunn@bellsouth.net Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18559 From: mfjdunn@bellsouth.net Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Atlantic metal tender shell
Group: S-Trains Message: 18560 From: Jim Armstrong Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Pikemaster Truck Replacement
Group: S-Trains Message: 18561 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: Vintage AF Code Minimum
Group: S-Trains Message: 18562 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Sunday Chat - Club site does not exist - it is BEING migrated....!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18563 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: Sunday Chat - Club site does not exist - it is BEI NG migrated.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18564 From: Paul Yorke Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: Sunday Chat - Club site does not exist - it is BEING migrated..
Group: S-Trains Message: 18565 From: Dick Kuepper Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 18566 From: Horn, David Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Axle bushing wear
Group: S-Trains Message: 18567 From: hsjobbins Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Where's this chat room??
Group: S-Trains Message: 18568 From: John L. Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: American Flyer Coach 495
Group: S-Trains Message: 18569 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: The great coupler experiment completed
Group: S-Trains Message: 18570 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer Coach 495
Group: S-Trains Message: 18571 From: Scott Brown Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Lionel Gabe operation tips
Group: S-Trains Message: 18572 From: Alex Sibbald Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: what happened
Group: S-Trains Message: 18573 From: bassflyer Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Chat room....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18574 From: robbyking13 Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Follow Up Re: Vintage AF Code Minimum
Group: S-Trains Message: 18575 From: Scott Brown Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: What Happened
Group: S-Trains Message: 18576 From: Horn, David Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Lionel Gabe operation tips
Group: S-Trains Message: 18577 From: Horn, David Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: best axle bushing lubricant to counter wear
Group: S-Trains Message: 18578 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Re: Cancelling Bids
Group: S-Trains Message: 18579 From: David Dewey Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Re: Follow Up Re: Vintage AF Code Minimum
Group: S-Trains Message: 18580 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: arcing at the rails
Group: S-Trains Message: 18581 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Re: Follow Up Re: Vintage AF Code Minimum
Group: S-Trains Message: 18582 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Re: arcing at the rails
Group: S-Trains Message: 18583 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Vintage AF Code Minimum
Group: S-Trains Message: 18584 From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Crossing signal flasher circuit
Group: S-Trains Message: 18585 From: ironhors@swbell.net Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Re: Vintage AF Code Minimum
Group: S-Trains Message: 18586 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer Coach 495
Group: S-Trains Message: 18587 From: bassflyer Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Chat room....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18588 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Re: Wow, Im very Sorry
Group: S-Trains Message: 18589 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: PLASTICVILLE
Group: S-Trains Message: 18590 From: af21115 Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Re: E-BAY ITEM
Group: S-Trains Message: 18591 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Older and Fatter
Group: S-Trains Message: 18592 From: erielackawanna76 Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18593 From: John Hornick Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Test/Haven't been able to post
Group: S-Trains Message: 18594 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Vintage AF Code Minimum
Group: S-Trains Message: 18595 From: erielackawanna76 Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: new website
Group: S-Trains Message: 18596 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re: PLASTICVILLE
Group: S-Trains Message: 18597 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re: PLASTICVILLE
Group: S-Trains Message: 18598 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Flood of Flyonel cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 18599 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Steam Engines
Group: S-Trains Message: 18600 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re: Flood of Flyonel cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 18601 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Northen tender parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18602 From: John L. Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re: Flood of Flyonel cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 18603 From: David Dewey Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re: Northen tender parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18604 From: nasglibrary Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Mobley Library Videos
Group: S-Trains Message: 18605 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re northern tender parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18606 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re northern tender parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18607 From: Dennis Conway Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Steam Engines
Group: S-Trains Message: 18608 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Steam Engines
Group: S-Trains Message: 18609 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Steam Engines
Group: S-Trains Message: 18610 From: hornickw Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Rejuvenating Rubber Roadbed
Group: S-Trains Message: 18611 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: rubber roadbed
Group: S-Trains Message: 18612 From: roy inman Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: re-up
Group: S-Trains Message: 18613 From: hornickw Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re: Rubber Roadbed
Group: S-Trains Message: 18614 From: dadaw56 Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Chat room access?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18615 From: dadaw56 Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: roadbed rejuvenation
Group: S-Trains Message: 18616 From: fahrwud Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re: Steam Engines
Group: S-Trains Message: 18617 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re: Steam Engines
Group: S-Trains Message: 18618 From: Gary Chidester Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Armorall?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18620 From: David Dewey Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re: Armorall? YECH!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18621 From: dadaw56 Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Another chatroom try
Group: S-Trains Message: 18622 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Steam Engines
Group: S-Trains Message: 18623 From: ron inscho Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Rubber Roadbed
Group: S-Trains Message: 18624 From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: Re northern tender parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18625 From: Gill W. Lott Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: Steam Engines
Group: S-Trains Message: 18626 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: ebay funny of the day
Group: S-Trains Message: 18627 From: crustyfour Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: MTH smoke unit
Group: S-Trains Message: 18628 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Steam Engines
Group: S-Trains Message: 18629 From: mlmarmer Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: ebay funny of the day
Group: S-Trains Message: 18630 From: David Dewey Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: Another chatroom try
Group: S-Trains Message: 18631 From: Roger Delthony Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Hard Rubber Roadbed
Group: S-Trains Message: 18632 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: Steam Engines
Group: S-Trains Message: 18633 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: Steam Engines
Group: S-Trains Message: 18634 From: crustyfour Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: More MTH smoke unit
Group: S-Trains Message: 18635 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: ebay funny of the day
Group: S-Trains Message: 18636 From: David Dewey Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: Steam Engines
Group: S-Trains Message: 18637 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re Chat problems
Group: S-Trains Message: 18638 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Speaking of Roadbed
Group: S-Trains Message: 18639 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: 12b Transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18640 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: 12b Transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18641 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: 12b Transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18642 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: Speaking of Roadbed
Group: S-Trains Message: 18643 From: dadaw56 Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Durn chatroom.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18644 From: dadaw56 Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Chatroom headway!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18645 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: Speaking of Roadbed
Group: S-Trains Message: 18646 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: 12b Transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18647 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: turret transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18648 From: Steve Blancard Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18649 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: 12b Transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18650 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18651 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18652 From: Steve Blancard Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18653 From: Steve Blancard Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Switches and controllers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18654 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18655 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: Switches and controllers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18656 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18657 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: Switches and controllers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18658 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18659 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Manoil Coupe on Ebay
Group: S-Trains Message: 18661 From: David Dewey Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: Switches and controllers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18662 From: David Dewey Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18663 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: Switches and controllers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18664 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18665 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18666 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18667 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Chat attempts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18668 From: THOMAS E HILLERY Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1395
Group: S-Trains Message: 18669 From: aag_rlg Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18670 From: David Dewey Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18671 From: David Dewey Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: Switches and controllers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18672 From: David Dewey Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18673 From: Horn, David Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: transformers and switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 18674 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: Steam Engines
Group: S-Trains Message: 18675 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: full power button
Group: S-Trains Message: 18676 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18677 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Ohm's Law
Group: S-Trains Message: 18678 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: transformers and switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 18679 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: transformers and switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 18680 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Reversing Handcars
Group: S-Trains Message: 18681 From: trzp1800 Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18682 From: crustyfour Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: Reversing Handcars
Group: S-Trains Message: 18683 From: special_treasures_4sale Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: Reversing Handcars
Group: S-Trains Message: 18684 From: special_treasures_4sale Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: Reversing Handcars
Group: S-Trains Message: 18685 From: crustyfour Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: Reversing Handcars
Group: S-Trains Message: 18686 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: turret transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18687 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18688 From: Rhett T. George Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: David D's pushbuttons
Group: S-Trains Message: 18689 From: David Dewey Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: David D's pushbuttons
Group: S-Trains Message: 18690 From: hornickw Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Test; I can't get through
Group: S-Trains Message: 18691 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: American Flyer Coach 495
Group: S-Trains Message: 18692 From: hornickw Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Test...can't post
Group: S-Trains Message: 18693 From: TCS Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Fw: Yahooed!! :(
Group: S-Trains Message: 18694 From: softmoods@vcn.com Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Steam Excursion
Group: S-Trains Message: 18695 From: robbyking13 Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: S Scale Track Info:
Group: S-Trains Message: 18696 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: Test...can't post
Group: S-Trains Message: 18697 From: joshseltzer Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: NASG National Convention
Group: S-Trains Message: 18698 From: bassflyer Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: Pikemaster Truck Replacement
Group: S-Trains Message: 18699 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: boy on bike
Group: S-Trains Message: 18700 From: robbyking13 Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: S Scale Track Info:
Group: S-Trains Message: 18701 From: hornickw Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Help Resurrecting Rubber Roadbed [2d try today]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18702 From: hornickw Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Trying to get through
Group: S-Trains Message: 18703 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: Test/Haven't been able to post
Group: S-Trains Message: 18704 From: robbyking13 Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: S Scale Track Info:
Group: S-Trains Message: 18705 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: transformers and switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 18706 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Yahooed!! :(
Group: S-Trains Message: 18707 From: dadaw56 Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Chat - Success!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18708 From: Horn, David Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: reversing handcar
Group: S-Trains Message: 18709 From: bassflyer Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: Chat and my coupler post.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18710 From: bassflyer Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: Chat and my coupler post.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18711 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Sunday chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 18712 From: royhoffman Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: Test/Haven't been able to post
Group: S-Trains Message: 18713 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: transformers and switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 18714 From: nyc17819@aol.com Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Rail codes, weights, etc.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18715 From: richgajnak Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: Test...can't post
Group: S-Trains Message: 18716 From: TCS Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Fw: [drgw] Re: Fw: Yahooed!! :(
Group: S-Trains Message: 18717 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: Test...can't post
Group: S-Trains Message: 18718 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18719 From: erielackawanna76 Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: New Website
Group: S-Trains Message: 18720 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: Follow Up Re: Vintage AF Code Minimum
Group: S-Trains Message: 18721 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 18724 From: Knight, Gene Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: 774 Floodlight Tower
Group: S-Trains Message: 18725 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: Transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18726 From: Gary Chidester Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: First Flyer Fix!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18727 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Re: Transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18728 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Vintage AF Code Minimum question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18729 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: OPPS - Rail codes, weights, etc.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18730 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Re: Vintage AF Code Minimum question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18731 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18732 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Re: transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18733 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Re: transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18734 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Saturday Chat Confusion
Group: S-Trains Message: 18735 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Re: First Flyer Fix!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18736 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: "How to" Video
Group: S-Trains Message: 18737 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Re: Rubber Roadbed
Group: S-Trains Message: 18738 From: Knight, Gene Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: 774 Floodlight Tower
Group: S-Trains Message: 18739 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: What I sent to the seller
Group: S-Trains Message: 18740 From: david_s_garber Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: manoil 707 roadster
Group: S-Trains Message: 18741 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Re: manoil 707 roadster/ADDED CORN
Group: S-Trains Message: 18742 From: ron inscho Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Re: What I sent to the seller
Group: S-Trains Message: 18743 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Here's what the seller wrote back
Group: S-Trains Message: 18744 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Re: What I sent to the seller
Group: S-Trains Message: 18745 From: roy inman Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: resubscribe
Group: S-Trains Message: 18746 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Re: transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18747 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18748 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: Here's what the seller wrote back
Group: S-Trains Message: 18749 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18750 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Can motor
Group: S-Trains Message: 18751 From: bassflyer Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: To the chat group........
Group: S-Trains Message: 18752 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Ebay seller bashing, enough already!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18753 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay seller bashing, enough already!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18754 From: Tom Pennington Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay seller bashing, enough already!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18755 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay seller bashing, enough already!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18756 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: TEST
Group: S-Trains Message: 18757 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18758 From: David Dewey Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: manoil 707 roadster/ADDED CORN
Group: S-Trains Message: 18759 From: Robert E. Yablonski Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18760 From: Victor Bereskin Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1397
Group: S-Trains Message: 18761 From: Steve Blancard Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: 30B internal wiring - help!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18762 From: Rick Evans Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: My little Fall/Sring layout....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18763 From: Paul Yorke Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Off Topic - Yahoo Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 18764 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18765 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 18766 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18767 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: Can motor
Group: S-Trains Message: 18768 From: Gary Chidester Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Source of Angel Hair?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18769 From: Gary Chidester Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Las Vegas and trains?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18770 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: I'm a bad boy!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18771 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18772 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: I'm a bad boy!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18773 From: mlmarmer Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: eBay item 1717113076 (Ends Apr-02-02 134421 PST ) - 1940's Manoil #
Group: S-Trains Message: 18774 From: Robert Wight Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: I'm a bad boy!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18775 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: eBay item 1717113076 (Ends Apr-02-02 134421 PST ) - 1940's Mano
Group: S-Trains Message: 18776 From: mlmarmer Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: eBay item 1717113076 (Ends Apr-02-02 134421 PST ) - 1940's Mano
Group: S-Trains Message: 18777 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: THE season
Group: S-Trains Message: 18778 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Wanted to chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 18779 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: No chat for me tonight!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18780 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: 1940's Manoil # no.707 road
Group: S-Trains Message: 18781 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: 30Bs
Group: S-Trains Message: 18782 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: eBay item 1717113076 (Ends Apr-02-02 134421 PST ) - 1940's Manoil #
Group: S-Trains Message: 18783 From: bilfrazier@aol.com Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: UL approval
Group: S-Trains Message: 18784 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: Source of Angel Hair?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18785 From: af21115 Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: Here's what the seller wrote back
Group: S-Trains Message: 18786 From: Paul Yorke Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: one request, one suggestion
Group: S-Trains Message: 18787 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: The silliness continues
Group: S-Trains Message: 18788 From: Steve Blancard Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay- The silliness continues
Group: S-Trains Message: 18789 From: mlmarmer Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: eBay item 1718609257 (Ends Apr-10-02 203925 PDT ) - AMERICAN FLYER
Group: S-Trains Message: 18790 From: af21115 Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: The silliness continues
Group: S-Trains Message: 18791 From: joshseltzer Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: NASG 2002 Convention Update - Schedule on website
Group: S-Trains Message: 18792 From: Roger J. Dumas Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: The silliness continues
Group: S-Trains Message: 18793 From: Robert Wight Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay The silliness continues
Group: S-Trains Message: 18794 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1402
Group: S-Trains Message: 18795 From: Ted Larson Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: moderator (Yahoo problems)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18796 From: David Dewey Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: eBay: Random thoughts and experiences, some funny
Group: S-Trains Message: 18797 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: POST OFFICE INS.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18798 From: dasha469 Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: N.Y.C. American Models Steam Passenger Set
Group: S-Trains Message: 18799 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Off Topic--Copyright
Group: S-Trains Message: 18800 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: Off Topic--Copyright
Group: S-Trains Message: 18801 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: For What It's Worth
Group: S-Trains Message: 18802 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: E-BAY FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH
Group: S-Trains Message: 18803 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: AF in Pittsburgh, Wheeling, Columbus
Group: S-Trains Message: 18804 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: American Flyer Oddity
Group: S-Trains Message: 18805 From: Scott Holm Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: POST OFFICE INS.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18806 From: TCS Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scale
Group: S-Trains Message: 18807 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Comments
Group: S-Trains Message: 18808 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Ebay funnies
Group: S-Trains Message: 18809 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: E-BAY POLICY
Group: S-Trains Message: 18810 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: E-bay coupe again
Group: S-Trains Message: 18811 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Off Topic--Copyright
Group: S-Trains Message: 18812 From: TCS Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scale
Group: S-Trains Message: 18813 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: POST OFFICE INS.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18814 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: E-bay question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18815 From: mlmarmer Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: E-bay coupe again
Group: S-Trains Message: 18816 From: Don Thompson Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: Trona PS-2 covered hopper
Group: S-Trains Message: 18817 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: electronic parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18818 From: Don Thompson Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: Trona PS-2 covered hopper part 2
Group: S-Trains Message: 18819 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1402
Group: S-Trains Message: 18820 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: electronic parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18821 From: Paul Yorke Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: 10 guys in the raw ... (yes, on topic)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18822 From: jgestar Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Postal insurance claims
Group: S-Trains Message: 18823 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Enough of your nonsense.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18824 From: TWesthelle@aol.com Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: EBay Postings
Group: S-Trains Message: 18825 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Get a life, Chris
Group: S-Trains Message: 18826 From: Robert Wight Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Web Page Update
Group: S-Trains Message: 18827 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Caig Update
Group: S-Trains Message: 18828 From: David Dewey Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: An important note to all on s-trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 18829 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Re Web Page Update
Group: S-Trains Message: 18830 From: roy inman Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Ebay
Group: S-Trains Message: 18831 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: eBay Reason Number 4
Group: S-Trains Message: 18832 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: eBay, eBay, eBay, eBay, eBay, eBay, eBay
Group: S-Trains Message: 18833 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Re: eBay Reason Number 4
Group: S-Trains Message: 18834 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: eBay, religion and politics just to controversial to discuss?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18835 From: Donald Abrams Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Re: Post Office Insurance (oxymoron)?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18836 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Re: Post Office Insurance (oxymoron)?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18837 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Re: Post Office Insurance (oxymoron)?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18838 From: Paul Yorke Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Cincinnati in Motion
Group: S-Trains Message: 18839 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Re: eBay, religion and politics just to controversial to discuss?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18840 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: PO INS (non E-Bay)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18841 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Re: eBay, religion and politics just to controversial to discuss?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18842 From: af21115 Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Re: Post Office Insurance (oxymoron)?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18843 From: af21115 Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Re: Post Office Insurance (oxymoron)?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18844 From: mlmarmer Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Famous Toy Car (EBAY!!!)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18845 From: Scott Holm Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Re: eBay humor
Group: S-Trains Message: 18846 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Re: Famous Toy Car (EBAY!!!)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18847 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: POST OFFICE CLAIMS
Group: S-Trains Message: 18848 From: Don Thompson Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Re: eBay, religion and politics just to controversial to discuss?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18849 From: dadaw56 Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 18850 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Get a life, Chris
Group: S-Trains Message: 18851 From: Paul Yorke Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Back to trains - Trainmaster
Group: S-Trains Message: 18852 From: M.McConnell Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Pictures of the Spiral Hill RR
Group: S-Trains Message: 18853 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: WARNING "eBay"? Scam
Group: S-Trains Message: 18854 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: WARNING "eBay"? Scam
Group: S-Trains Message: 18855 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Don Thompson
Group: S-Trains Message: 18856 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Get a life, Chris
Group: S-Trains Message: 18857 From: markdkoenig Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Off Topic - My perspective
Group: S-Trains Message: 18858 From: David Dewey Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: good WARNING "eBay"? Scam, Thanks!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18859 From: af21115 Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: eBay humor
Group: S-Trains Message: 18860 From: af21115 Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Off Topic - My perspective
Group: S-Trains Message: 18861 From: afstrains@aol.com Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1406
Group: S-Trains Message: 18862 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Just the facts please!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18863 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Post Office Insurance
Group: S-Trains Message: 18864 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Attack of the Can people
Group: S-Trains Message: 18865 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Off Topic - My perspective
Group: S-Trains Message: 18866 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Attack of the Can people
Group: S-Trains Message: 18867 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: 322 Hudson question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18868 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: 322 Hudson question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18869 From: nasglibrary Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Mobley Library vacation
Group: S-Trains Message: 18870 From: hcopter52 Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Roadbed-Revisited
Group: S-Trains Message: 18871 From: Knight, Gene Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: more roadbed
Group: S-Trains Message: 18872 From: Robert H Meyer Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: New member, transformer question Penn 310 loco
Group: S-Trains Message: 18873 From: kathy/tom Gerbasi Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: 356 Question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18874 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: New member, transformer question Penn 310 loco
Group: S-Trains Message: 18875 From: David Dewey Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: 322 Hudson question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18876 From: David Dewey Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: 356 Question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18877 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: 356 Question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18878 From: Kimball, Bob (CH) Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1406
Group: S-Trains Message: 18879 From: Chuck Smith Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: New member, transformer question Penn 310 loco
Group: S-Trains Message: 18880 From: Chuck Smith Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: New member, transformer question Penn 310 loco
Group: S-Trains Message: 18881 From: Chuck Smith Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Roadbed-Revisited
Group: S-Trains Message: 18882 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: 356 rods
Group: S-Trains Message: 18883 From: Scott Holm Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: 356 Question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18884 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: 322 question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18885 From: Gale Hall Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Insurance
Group: S-Trains Message: 18886 From: Victor Bereskin Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Cincinnati in Motion
Group: S-Trains Message: 18887 From: lou342ac Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Off Topic - My perspective
Group: S-Trains Message: 18888 From: Rick Evans Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: The subject of subjects of posts....
Group: S-Trains Message: 18889 From: dmsapadin Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Flyer by Lionel with Railsounds Question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18890 From: Gale Hall Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: trades
Group: S-Trains Message: 18891 From: Chuck Smith Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer by Lionel with Railsounds Question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18892 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer by Lionel with Railsounds Question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18893 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer by Lionel with Railsounds Question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18894 From: joe messinger Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Bellows Repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 18895 From: Gale Hall Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: trades SIT-REP
Group: S-Trains Message: 18896 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Re: Bellows Repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 18897 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Re: Bellows Repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 18898 From: Gale Hall Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: trades SITREP
Group: S-Trains Message: 18899 From: splitdorf@1bigred.com Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Re: Bellows Repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 18900 From: markdkoenig Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Thanks
Group: S-Trains Message: 18901 From: joelgerlach Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: With Regards To Ebay
Group: S-Trains Message: 18902 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Bellows Material - SIT/Player Pianos
Group: S-Trains Message: 18903 From: rodgers_carl Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Bellows Repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 18904 From: David Dewey Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Re: Bellows Material - SIT/Player Pianos
Group: S-Trains Message: 18905 From: Robert Wight Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Please help with a Lionel question.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18906 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Flyer operation question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18907 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: SIT repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 18908 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer operation question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18909 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Off topic player piano was "bellows repair"
Group: S-Trains Message: 18910 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer operation question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18911 From: hcopter52 Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer operation question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18912 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: 2 train oper (was Flyer operation question)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18913 From: Bruce Papky Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Softening lichen...
Group: S-Trains Message: 18914 From: Steve Blancard Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Re: 2 train oper (was Flyer operation question)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18915 From: Roger Delthony Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Roadbed Revisited
Group: S-Trains Message: 18916 From: Chuck Smith Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Re: Softening lichen...
Group: S-Trains Message: 18917 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Re: 2 train oper (was Flyer operation question)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18918 From: Lee Johnson Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Re: Softening lichen...
Group: S-Trains Message: 18919 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: 2 train oper
Group: S-Trains Message: 18920 From: Jerry Riechert Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: [Fwd: RE: ToyTrains.info Feedback Form]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18921 From: David Dewey Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Re: SIT repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 18922 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: SIT repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 18923 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 4/5/2002
Subject: Getting old
Group: S-Trains Message: 18924 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 4/5/2002
Subject: New service from S-'n-S Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 18925 From: Michael Christensen Date: 4/5/2002
Subject: New electronic " Talking Station" device
Group: S-Trains Message: 18926 From: dmsapadin Date: 4/5/2002
Subject: Looking for Flyer Ladders
Group: S-Trains Message: 18927 From: tsbikes Date: 4/5/2002
Subject: Tom Jarcho-thanks!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18928 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/5/2002
Subject: ANGEL HAIR
Group: S-Trains Message: 18929 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/5/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 18930 From: af21115 Date: 4/5/2002
Subject: Re: ANGEL HAIR
Group: S-Trains Message: 18931 From: gunrjoe@aol.com Date: 4/5/2002
Subject: Coils Burning Out
Group: S-Trains Message: 18932 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/5/2002
Subject: Re: Coils Burning Out
Group: S-Trains Message: 18933 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/6/2002
Subject: Re: New electronic " Talking Station" device
Group: S-Trains Message: 18934 From: TED R LARSON Date: 4/6/2002
Subject: GN
Group: S-Trains Message: 18935 From: TED R LARSON Date: 4/6/2002
Subject: GN
Group: S-Trains Message: 18936 From: TED R LARSON Date: 4/6/2002
Subject: GN
Group: S-Trains Message: 18937 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 4/6/2002
Subject: Re: GN
Group: S-Trains Message: 18938 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/6/2002
Subject: GN
Group: S-Trains Message: 18939 From: TED R LARSON Date: 4/6/2002
Subject: Flagstop at Slapout
Group: S-Trains Message: 18940 From: Don Thompson Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Re: More SHS Blatant advertising
Group: S-Trains Message: 18941 From: erierailroad@aol.com Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Art Griffen S Scale Decals
Group: S-Trains Message: 18942 From: mktslsf Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Conversion From O Gauge to S Gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 18943 From: Jim Schiele Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18944 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Re: Conversion From O Gauge to S Gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 18945 From: WNHOLCOMB@aol.com Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Manoil 707 Colors
Group: S-Trains Message: 18946 From: Steve Blancard Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: SIT and SIB ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18947 From: max meise Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: reverse unit
Group: S-Trains Message: 18948 From: David Dewey Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Re: SIT and SIB ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18949 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 18950 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Backs of Buildings
Group: S-Trains Message: 18951 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: S kits
Group: S-Trains Message: 18952 From: Gale Hall Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: needs
Group: S-Trains Message: 18953 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Armor All
Group: S-Trains Message: 18954 From: Steve Blancard Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Re: SIT and SIB ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18955 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Re: reverse unit
Group: S-Trains Message: 18956 From: David Dewey Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Re: SIT and SIB ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18957 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Where is Keith Kuzma?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18958 From: Wayne Zebron Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: can motors--reverse unit
Group: S-Trains Message: 18959 From: David Dewey Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Re: reverse unit
Group: S-Trains Message: 18960 From: Doug Peck Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Re: reverse unit
Group: S-Trains Message: 18961 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Re: SIT and SIB ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18962 From: David Dewey Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: computer help needed!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18963 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: Re: computer help needed!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18964 From: David Dewey Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: Computer help!! a PS
Group: S-Trains Message: 18965 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: leaky smoke unit
Group: S-Trains Message: 18966 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: Re: leaky smoke unit
Group: S-Trains Message: 18967 From: Doug Peck Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: Re: EMAIL change
Group: S-Trains Message: 18968 From: David Dewey Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: Re: leaky smoke unit
Group: S-Trains Message: 18969 From: crustyfour Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: Load for an old time gondola/flat car ??
Group: S-Trains Message: 18970 From: John DeFelice Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: leaky smoke unit
Group: S-Trains Message: 18971 From: rodgers_carl Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: leaky smoke unit
Group: S-Trains Message: 18972 From: bassflyer Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: Re: Load for an old time gondola/flat car ??
Group: S-Trains Message: 18973 From: bassflyer Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: On30 caboose.......
Group: S-Trains Message: 18974 From: Scott Holm Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: Re: Load for an old time gondola/flat car ??
Group: S-Trains Message: 18975 From: Robert Wight Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: Load for an old time gondola/flat car ??
Group: S-Trains Message: 18976 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: Armor All
Group: S-Trains Message: 18977 From: Alex Sibbald Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: standout headlamps
Group: S-Trains Message: 18978 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: standout headlamps
Group: S-Trains Message: 18979 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: building links
Group: S-Trains Message: 18980 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Website train links?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18981 From: yazfacts Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: 21168 Casey.......
Group: S-Trains Message: 18982 From: bassflyer Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Stagecoach loads......
Group: S-Trains Message: 18983 From: trzp1800 Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: Armor All
Group: S-Trains Message: 18984 From: bassflyer Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: Armor All
Group: S-Trains Message: 18985 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: Armor All
Group: S-Trains Message: 18986 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Cleaning Cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 18987 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: AC/DC question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18988 From: trzp1800 Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning Cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 18989 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: how shiny were they??
Group: S-Trains Message: 18990 From: Roger Delthony Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: AC/DC question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18991 From: Wes Parker Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: unsubscribe
Group: S-Trains Message: 18992 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1414
Group: S-Trains Message: 18993 From: Wes Parker Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: unsubscribe
Group: S-Trains Message: 18994 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Cheap Electronic E-unit for DC Can Motor Conversions Follow up.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18995 From: Michael Greene Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: River Raisin Models Web site Updates
Group: S-Trains Message: 18996 From: joeawood@aol.com Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Modular Layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18997 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: Cheap Electronic E-unit for DC Can Motor Conversions Follow up.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18998 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: AC/DC question
Group: S-Trains Message: 18999 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Duck!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19000 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: leaky smoke unit
Group: S-Trains Message: 19001 From: Don Thompson Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: Modular Layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 19002 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: Cheap Electronic E-unit for DC Can Motor Conversio ns Follow up.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19003 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: Duck!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19004 From: David Dewey Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: Duck!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19005 From: Euell Johnson Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: Duck!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19006 From: redline_jc Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Need some help
Group: S-Trains Message: 19007 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Re: Duck!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19008 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Re: Duck!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19009 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Re: Need some help
Group: S-Trains Message: 19010 From: rfgiardina Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Re: Duck!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19011 From: Rhett T. George Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1415
Group: S-Trains Message: 19012 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Duck
Group: S-Trains Message: 19013 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: What's this got to do with?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19014 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Re: Duck!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19015 From: David Dewey Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Re: Duck! --my computer problems and S gauge--sorry!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19016 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: OT: Re: Duck! --my computer problems and S gauge--sorry!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19017 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Re: Duck! --my computer problems and S gauge--sorry!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19018 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Re: Duck! --my computer problems and S gauge--sorry!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19019 From: Steve Blancard Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Loads for an old time gondola
Group: S-Trains Message: 19020 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: DUCK COMPLAINT
Group: S-Trains Message: 19021 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: "Duck" & Computer Problems
Group: S-Trains Message: 19022 From: theheadliner Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Re: Duck!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19023 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Re: "Duck" & Computer Problems
Group: S-Trains Message: 19024 From: aglorince Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: train show north west pa sunday april 14.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19025 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: ROOM AT YORK?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19026 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: ON30 FLAT
Group: S-Trains Message: 19027 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Re: ON30 FLAT
Group: S-Trains Message: 19028 From: Gale Hall Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: needs
Group: S-Trains Message: 19029 From: Tom Pennington Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: ultrasonic cleaning?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19030 From: David Dewey Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: ultrasonic cleaning?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19031 From: bassflyer Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: On30 Xmas coaches I spoke of.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 19032 From: bassflyer Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: ultrasonic cleaning?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19033 From: bassflyer Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: ultrasonic cleaning?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19034 From: yazfacts Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: 21168 troubles...
Group: S-Trains Message: 19035 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1417
Group: S-Trains Message: 19036 From: Scott Holm Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: 21168 troubles...
Group: S-Trains Message: 19037 From: David Dewey Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: 21168 troubles...
Group: S-Trains Message: 19038 From: John A. Conant Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: my computer problems and S gauge--sorry! (not)
Group: S-Trains Message: 19039 From: Ted Larson Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Prototype Data
Group: S-Trains Message: 19040 From: Ted Larson Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Fwd: Updated ATHS web site
Group: S-Trains Message: 19041 From: Rhett T. George Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: AC and DC outa the same transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19042 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC outa the same transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19043 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC outa the same transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19044 From: Chuck Smith Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC outa the same transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19045 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC outa the same transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19046 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC outa the same transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19047 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Ultrasonic
Group: S-Trains Message: 19048 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: It's here!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19049 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: my computer problems and S gauge--sorry! (not)
Group: S-Trains Message: 19050 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC outa the same transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19051 From: Chuck Smith Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC outa the same transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19052 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC outa the same transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19053 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: ac/dc
Group: S-Trains Message: 19054 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Akron and Dayton S-spree
Group: S-Trains Message: 19055 From: joe messinger Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Volt meters & reverse units
Group: S-Trains Message: 19056 From: Bruce Crosby Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: Volt meters & reverse units
Group: S-Trains Message: 19057 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: AC and DC ---& rewinding
Group: S-Trains Message: 19058 From: David Dewey Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: Volt meters & reverse units
Group: S-Trains Message: 19059 From: David Dewey Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC ---& rewinding
Group: S-Trains Message: 19060 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC ---& rewinding
Group: S-Trains Message: 19061 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Re: Volt meters & reverse units
Group: S-Trains Message: 19062 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC ---& rewinding
Group: S-Trains Message: 19063 From: joshseltzer Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: NASG 2002 Convention Hotel room information. Rooms are still open
Group: S-Trains Message: 19064 From: David Dewey Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC ---& rewinding
Group: S-Trains Message: 19065 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC ---& rewinding
Group: S-Trains Message: 19066 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC ---& rewinding
Group: S-Trains Message: 19067 From: Scott Holm Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: WD-40 armature damage
Group: S-Trains Message: 19068 From: af21115 Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Re: Duck! PC Clean-up
Group: S-Trains Message: 19069 From: Rhett T. George Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: That thingy
Group: S-Trains Message: 19070 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Loco armature wire sizes
Group: S-Trains Message: 19071 From: Doug Peck Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Re: Hannon book
Group: S-Trains Message: 19072 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC ---& rewinding
Group: S-Trains Message: 19073 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC ---& rewinding
Group: S-Trains Message: 19074 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19075 From: Steve Blancard Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: 759 Danger light and bell - a sticky situation
Group: S-Trains Message: 19076 From: bm957 Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Lionel Rock Island
Group: S-Trains Message: 19077 From: s6g2p Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: GRAB IRONS FOR AMERICAN MODEL SD60
Group: S-Trains Message: 19078 From: jahoozdumm Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC ---& rewinding
Group: S-Trains Message: 19079 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: AC and DC ---& rewinding
Group: S-Trains Message: 19080 From: joe messinger Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: "Reverser Armature"
Group: S-Trains Message: 19081 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC ---& rewinding
Group: S-Trains Message: 19082 From: David Dewey Date: 4/13/2002
Subject: Re: "Reverser Armature"
Group: S-Trains Message: 19083 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 4/13/2002
Subject: TCA Location
Group: S-Trains Message: 19084 From: Chuck Smith Date: 4/13/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel Rock Island
Group: S-Trains Message: 19085 From: Lance McCold Date: 4/13/2002
Subject: Re: Anybody else know about this (Bob Hannon's) book?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19086 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/13/2002
Subject: Bridge Girders
Group: S-Trains Message: 19087 From: gino restivo Date: 4/13/2002
Subject: re , new parts notice
Group: S-Trains Message: 19088 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/13/2002
Subject: Re: re , new parts notice
Group: S-Trains Message: 19089 From: bassflyer Date: 4/13/2002
Subject: Re: Bridge Girders
Group: S-Trains Message: 19090 From: rodgers_carl Date: 4/13/2002
Subject: Re: re , new parts notice
Group: S-Trains Message: 19091 From: gino restivo Date: 4/13/2002
Subject: Re: re , new parts notice
Group: S-Trains Message: 19092 From: gino restivo Date: 4/13/2002
Subject: Re: re , new parts notice
Group: S-Trains Message: 19093 From: rodgers_carl Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Re: re , new parts notice
Group: S-Trains Message: 19094 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Desert Island
Group: S-Trains Message: 19095 From: lou342ac Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Weight
Group: S-Trains Message: 19096 From: michael prell Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Just Wondering
Group: S-Trains Message: 19097 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Re: Weight
Group: S-Trains Message: 19098 From: richgajnak Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Goodby...
Group: S-Trains Message: 19099 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Re: Weight
Group: S-Trains Message: 19100 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Re: Weight
Group: S-Trains Message: 19101 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Re: Goodby...
Group: S-Trains Message: 19102 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: AF Geep converted to TrainMaster Comand Control.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19103 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19104 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1416
Group: S-Trains Message: 19105 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: S Gauge computer problem
Group: S-Trains Message: 19106 From: paintyliz Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Hi - Free Train Cards
Group: S-Trains Message: 19107 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: York
Group: S-Trains Message: 19108 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1422
Group: S-Trains Message: 19109 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Re: Goodby...
Group: S-Trains Message: 19110 From: Ted Larson Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: YAHOO Moderator question
Group: S-Trains Message: 19111 From: Rhett T. George Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: 759 Danger light and bell - a sticky situation
Group: S-Trains Message: 19112 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: Re: YAHOO Moderator question
Group: S-Trains Message: 19113 From: Michael Christensen Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel Rock Island
Group: S-Trains Message: 19114 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: YAHOO Moderator question
Group: S-Trains Message: 19115 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: Boise Depot Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 19116 From: The Reis's Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: Re: YAHOO Moderator question
Group: S-Trains Message: 19117 From: gunrjoe@aol.com Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: YAHOO
Group: S-Trains Message: 19118 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: Re: re , new parts notice
Group: S-Trains Message: 19119 From: fahrwud Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: PBS Flyer/Radio Shack rectifier
Group: S-Trains Message: 19120 From: gino restivo Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: show + parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 19121 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: Re: PBS Flyer/Radio Shack rectifier
Group: S-Trains Message: 19122 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: Re: PBS Flyer/Radio Shack rectifier
Group: S-Trains Message: 19123 From: david_s_garber Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: york
Group: S-Trains Message: 19124 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] PBS Flyer/Radio Shack rectifier
Group: S-Trains Message: 19125 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: Scenery
Group: S-Trains Message: 19126 From: David Dewey Date: 4/16/2002
Subject: Re: 759 Danger light and bell - a sticky situation
Group: S-Trains Message: 19127 From: Liz Armon Date: 4/16/2002
Subject: Where to get envelopes for the free cards
Group: S-Trains Message: 19128 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/16/2002
Subject: 759 bell
Group: S-Trains Message: 19129 From: fahrwud Date: 4/16/2002
Subject: Thanks much Carl & Tim!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19130 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 4/16/2002
Subject: Clapper/Bell Danger Signal
Group: S-Trains Message: 19131 From: royhoffman Date: 4/17/2002
Subject: Re: Scenery
Group: S-Trains Message: 19132 From: notcoldenough Date: 4/17/2002
Subject: Re: 759 bell
Group: S-Trains Message: 19133 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 4/17/2002
Subject: Russ Downs at York
Group: S-Trains Message: 19134 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 4/17/2002
Subject: Re: My e-mail address has changed
Group: S-Trains Message: 19135 From: royhoffman Date: 4/17/2002
Subject: Re: Russ Downs at York
Group: S-Trains Message: 19136 From: Robert Jackson Date: 4/17/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Scenery
Group: S-Trains Message: 19137 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 4/17/2002
Subject: Re: ultrasonic cleaning?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19138 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/17/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Scenery
Group: S-Trains Message: 19139 From: Robert Jackson Date: 4/17/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Scenery
Group: S-Trains Message: 19140 From: kathy/tom Gerbasi Date: 4/17/2002
Subject: 1920's Figures
Group: S-Trains Message: 19141 From: downtowndeco Date: 4/17/2002
Subject: Long lost S Scale Fallberg Station kits found....
Group: S-Trains Message: 19143 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/18/2002
Subject: HO & GILBERT ???
Group: S-Trains Message: 19145 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 4/19/2002
Subject: My e-mail address has changed
Group: S-Trains Message: 19147 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 4/19/2002
Subject: Burma Shave
Group: S-Trains Message: 19148 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 4/19/2002
Subject: Slower speed can motors
Group: S-Trains Message: 19149 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/19/2002
Subject: Re: Burma Shave .... ANOTHER
Group: S-Trains Message: 19150 From: John Foley Date: 4/19/2002
Subject: MM&T News
Group: S-Trains Message: 19151 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/19/2002
Subject: YORK
Group: S-Trains Message: 19152 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/19/2002
Subject: BURMA SHAVE - SIGNS
Group: S-Trains Message: 19153 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/19/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19154 From: gino restivo Date: 4/19/2002
Subject: Raul Catta your e-mail returned , sent again
Group: S-Trains Message: 19155 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/19/2002
Subject: Re: YORK
Group: S-Trains Message: 19156 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/19/2002
Subject: Re: YORK
Group: S-Trains Message: 19157 From: rodgers_carl Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Quality vs. a fast buck
Group: S-Trains Message: 19158 From: lou342ac Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: YORK
Group: S-Trains Message: 19159 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: silly engine question
Group: S-Trains Message: 19160 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: silly engine question
Group: S-Trains Message: 19161 From: bassflyer Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: On30 Caboose pic....
Group: S-Trains Message: 19162 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: Quality vs. a fast buck
Group: S-Trains Message: 19163 From: bassflyer Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Repro decals...
Group: S-Trains Message: 19164 From: rodgers_carl Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: Repro decals...
Group: S-Trains Message: 19165 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: YORK
Group: S-Trains Message: 19166 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: YORK
Group: S-Trains Message: 19167 From: joeawood@aol.com Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: York
Group: S-Trains Message: 19168 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: AF item wanted
Group: S-Trains Message: 19169 From: gino restivo Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: parts question answered , carl
Group: S-Trains Message: 19170 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: York
Group: S-Trains Message: 19171 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: YORK
Group: S-Trains Message: 19172 From: Scott Holm Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: Quality vs. a fast buck
Group: S-Trains Message: 19173 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Passenger car project
Group: S-Trains Message: 19174 From: Scott Holm Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: American Models SD-60
Group: S-Trains Message: 19175 From: Scott Holm Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Heavyweight repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 19176 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: Heavyweight repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 19177 From: rodgers_carl Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: parts question answered , carl
Group: S-Trains Message: 19178 From: jahoozdumm Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: Quality vs. a fast buck
Group: S-Trains Message: 19179 From: jahoozdumm Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: American Models SD-60
Group: S-Trains Message: 19180 From: af21115 Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: Re: YORK
Group: S-Trains Message: 19181 From: Don Thompson Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: Re: Quality vs. a fast buck
Group: S-Trains Message: 19182 From: Michael Christensen Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: Re: Burma Shave .... ANOTHER
Group: S-Trains Message: 19183 From: Steve Blancard Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: Re: parts question answered , carl
Group: S-Trains Message: 19184 From: Rick Evans Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: To the chat group.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 19185 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: 1. Significant TCA development 2. York
Group: S-Trains Message: 19186 From: knockbill Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: hewavy weight repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 19187 From: Mike Vana Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: Train Prices and TCA
Group: S-Trains Message: 19188 From: max meise Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: Re: 1. Significant TCA development 2. York
Group: S-Trains Message: 19189 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19190 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: Re: Significant TCA development 2. York / TCA Membership Drop - NO
Group: S-Trains Message: 19191 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: TCA membership drop
Group: S-Trains Message: 19192 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: setting preferences
Group: S-Trains Message: 19193 From: Gary Chidester Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: balast or other smal rock needs
Group: S-Trains Message: 19194 From: jahoozdumm Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: Re: Train Prices and TCA
Group: S-Trains Message: 19195 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: Re: Train Prices and TCA/ TTOS
Group: S-Trains Message: 19196 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: Re: Train Prices and TCA/TTOS
Group: S-Trains Message: 19197 From: David Dewey Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: TTOS--was Re: Train Prices and TCA
Group: S-Trains Message: 19198 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: TCA Directory
Group: S-Trains Message: 19200 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: Re: TCA Directory
Group: S-Trains Message: 19201 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: Cowboy fun stuff
Group: S-Trains Message: 19202 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: Signs for your buildings
Group: S-Trains Message: 19203 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: American Flyer signs
Group: S-Trains Message: 19204 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: Faster then a locomotive
Group: S-Trains Message: 19205 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: setting preferences
Group: S-Trains Message: 19206 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: Re: ballast or other smal rock needs
Group: S-Trains Message: 19207 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: California, here I come!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19208 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: Re: California, here I come!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19209 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: 2002 TCA Directory Reply
Group: S-Trains Message: 19210 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: Re: Transformers including updated summary
Group: S-Trains Message: 19211 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: Re: Transformers including updated summary
Group: S-Trains Message: 19212 From: Dan Brindell Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: Nice work if you can get it
Group: S-Trains Message: 19213 From: Don Thompson Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: Re: Nice work if you can get it
Group: S-Trains Message: 19214 From: Ron Inscho Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: Re: Nice work if you can get it
Group: S-Trains Message: 19215 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: TCA and TTOS
Group: S-Trains Message: 19216 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: York -- April, 2002
Group: S-Trains Message: 19217 From: nasglibrary Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: 1:64 instruction sheets uploaded
Group: S-Trains Message: 19218 From: jahoozdumm Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: Re: York -- April, 2002
Group: S-Trains Message: 19219 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: Re: York -- April, 2002
Group: S-Trains Message: 19220 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 19221 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 19222 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 19223 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: BLANTANT AD
Group: S-Trains Message: 19224 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: 30B
Group: S-Trains Message: 19225 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: 4-6-6-4 update
Group: S-Trains Message: 19226 From: Donald Abrams Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: Belated -- Products I'd like to see
Group: S-Trains Message: 19227 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: Caig . . . again.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19228 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: unsubscribe
Group: S-Trains Message: 19229 From: jahoozdumm Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: Re: York -- April, 2002
Group: S-Trains Message: 19230 From: roy inman Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: Re: York -- April, 2002
Group: S-Trains Message: 19232 From: jahoozdumm Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: Re: York -- April, 2002
Group: S-Trains Message: 19233 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Lionel and AF
Group: S-Trains Message: 19234 From: Paul Yorke Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Off Topic - Virus (maybe)
Group: S-Trains Message: 19235 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: no respect
Group: S-Trains Message: 19236 From: mlmarmer Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: eBay item 1724050885 (Ends Apr-24-02 074952 PDT ) - American Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19237 From: mlmarmer Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] eBay item 1724050885 (Ends Apr-24-02 074952 PDT ) -
Group: S-Trains Message: 19238 From: David Dewey Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Re: eBay item 1724050885 (Ends Apr-24-02 074952 PDT ) - American Fl
Group: S-Trains Message: 19239 From: mlmarmer Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Re: eBay item 1724050885 (Ends Apr-24-02 074952 PDT ) - American Fl
Group: S-Trains Message: 19240 From: trzp1800 Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Gray Paint for Depressed Center Searchlight Cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 19241 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Re: eBay item 1724050885 (Ends Apr-24-02 074952 PDT ) - American Fl
Group: S-Trains Message: 19242 From: Doug Peck Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] Latest VIRUS alert
Group: S-Trains Message: 19243 From: mlmarmer Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Re: eBay item 1724050885 (Ends Apr-24-02 074952 PDT ) - American Fl
Group: S-Trains Message: 19244 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Re: York -- April, 2002 - Lionel
Group: S-Trains Message: 19245 From: erierailroad@aol.com Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Re: eBay item 1724050885 (Ends Apr-24-02 074952 PDT ) - American F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19246 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Re: York -- April, 2002 - Lionel
Group: S-Trains Message: 19247 From: mlmarmer Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Re: eBay item 1724050885 (Ends Apr-24-02 074952 PDT ) - American F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19248 From: yazfacts Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: 5 digit M.K.T. Boxcar......
Group: S-Trains Message: 19249 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Gray Paint
Group: S-Trains Message: 19250 From: Dale Smith Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Re: California, here I come!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19251 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: BLANTANT AD
Group: S-Trains Message: 19252 From: jahoozdumm Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Re: York -- April, 2002 - Lionel
Group: S-Trains Message: 19253 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Flyer in Ohio????
Group: S-Trains Message: 19254 From: mlmarmer Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer in Ohio????
Group: S-Trains Message: 19255 From: mlmarmer Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] Latest VIRUS alert
Group: S-Trains Message: 19256 From: Richard J. Nicholls Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Question about Drop Wires for DCC
Group: S-Trains Message: 19257 From: joshseltzer Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: NASG 2002 Tour information & signup
Group: S-Trains Message: 19258 From: Robert Jackson Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Question about Drop Wires for DCC
Group: S-Trains Message: 19259 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer in Ohio????
Group: S-Trains Message: 19260 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Hopelessly off topic -- Want an old watch
Group: S-Trains Message: 19261 From: mlmarmer Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer in Ohio????
Group: S-Trains Message: 19262 From: wintermutedm Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Garden S
Group: S-Trains Message: 19263 From: bassflyer Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Flyer Dead....??
Group: S-Trains Message: 19264 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: IN SEARCH OF
Group: S-Trains Message: 19265 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Repro split knuckle couplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 19266 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: DC & SMOKE UNIT
Group: S-Trains Message: 19267 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: IN SEARCH OF
Group: S-Trains Message: 19268 From: Wayne and Alice Beachy Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Gilbert Display layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 19269 From: mlmarmer Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: viruses
Group: S-Trains Message: 19270 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: RECHROMED 405
Group: S-Trains Message: 19271 From: Joe Haughney Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Gilbert Hall of Science
Group: S-Trains Message: 19272 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: uncataloged set 20188 question
Group: S-Trains Message: 19273 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert Hall of Science
Group: S-Trains Message: 19275 From: jahoozdumm Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Re: Repro split knuckle couplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 19276 From: af21115 Date: 4/26/2002
Subject: Re: uncataloged set 20188 question
Group: S-Trains Message: 19277 From: Alex Date: 4/26/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert Hall of Science
Group: S-Trains Message: 19278 From: Ted Larson Date: 4/26/2002
Subject: virus?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19279 From: yorke@gate.net Date: 4/26/2002
Subject: Virus Update
Group: S-Trains Message: 19280 From: Don Thompson Date: 4/26/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] virus?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19281 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/26/2002
Subject: CRANE & COAL LOADER
Group: S-Trains Message: 19282 From: Scott Holm Date: 4/26/2002
Subject: Re: Virus Update
Group: S-Trains Message: 19283 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 4/26/2002
Subject: New SP engine
Group: S-Trains Message: 19284 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/26/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19285 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/26/2002
Subject: Sound Button#6-5906 for sale & 5005wt set for sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 19286 From: jackress Date: 4/26/2002
Subject: Re: 759 Bell substitute replacement
Group: S-Trains Message: 19287 From: Don Thompson Date: 4/27/2002
Subject: Re: DSL Sears house
Group: S-Trains Message: 19288 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 4/27/2002
Subject: more uncataloged 20188 questions.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19289 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 4/27/2002
Subject: L-Flyer/KC trucks for car hauler
Group: S-Trains Message: 19290 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/27/2002
Subject: Re: more uncataloged 20188 questions.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19291 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 4/27/2002
Subject: Re: more uncataloged 20188 questions.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19292 From: WNHOLCOMB@aol.com Date: 4/27/2002
Subject: Manoil 707 Colors
Group: S-Trains Message: 19293 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/27/2002
Subject: Computer Lockups Revisited
Group: S-Trains Message: 19294 From: Robert Wight Date: 4/27/2002
Subject: Lionel sawmill repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 19295 From: John L. Date: 4/27/2002
Subject: Knuckle Coupler Problems.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19296 From: bassflyer Date: 4/27/2002
Subject: Re: New SP engine
Group: S-Trains Message: 19297 From: Scott Holm Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Re: Knuckle Coupler Problems.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19298 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Re: New SP engine
Group: S-Trains Message: 19299 From: lou342ac Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: AM/S-Helper Switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 19300 From: Damian Brindell Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Re: Knuckle Coupler Problems.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19301 From: bassflyer Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Re: New SP engine
Group: S-Trains Message: 19302 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel sawmill repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 19303 From: Robert E. Yablonski Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1432, Handcar
Group: S-Trains Message: 19304 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: handcars
Group: S-Trains Message: 19305 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Aircraft Beacon Revisited
Group: S-Trains Message: 19306 From: kathy/tom Gerbasi Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: ?s re:budd cars and SHS "house cars"
Group: S-Trains Message: 19307 From: Dick Kuepper Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Ertl Collectibles 1/64 Semi & Tractors
Group: S-Trains Message: 19308 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19309 From: Lance McCold Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Garden S
Group: S-Trains Message: 19310 From: TED R LARSON Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: S Quality !
Group: S-Trains Message: 19311 From: Don Thompson Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: ?s re:budd cars and SHS "house cars"
Group: S-Trains Message: 19312 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Circus Car #2
Group: S-Trains Message: 19313 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Address Correction
Group: S-Trains Message: 19314 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Re: AM/S-Helper Switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 19315 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Correct Address
Group: S-Trains Message: 19316 From: David Dewey Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Re: New SP engine--The SHIRT! & Flyer Fest West
Group: S-Trains Message: 19317 From: David Dewey Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel sawmill repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 19318 From: The Reis's Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: American Models GG 1! for sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 19319 From: Alex Date: 4/29/2002
Subject: Re: handcars
Group: S-Trains Message: 19320 From: Scott Holm Date: 4/29/2002
Subject: Lionel 182 crane armature update
Group: S-Trains Message: 19321 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 4/29/2002
Subject: Sawmill gear
Group: S-Trains Message: 19322 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/29/2002
Subject: SMOKE FLUID
Group: S-Trains Message: 19323 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 4/29/2002
Subject: Correct URL
Group: S-Trains Message: 19324 From: markdkoenig Date: 4/29/2002
Subject: BNSF Prototype pics
Group: S-Trains Message: 19325 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/29/2002
Subject: DAYLIGHT SET
Group: S-Trains Message: 19326 From: hcopter52 Date: 4/30/2002
Subject: AF Circus animals
Group: S-Trains Message: 19327 From: Rick Evans Date: 4/30/2002
Subject: "Golly!! That rubber road bed is swell!"
Group: S-Trains Message: 19328 From: joshseltzer Date: 4/30/2002
Subject: Last Day for NASG 2002 Convention Early Bird Rate
Group: S-Trains Message: 19329 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/30/2002
Subject: Doug Peck's email address
Group: S-Trains Message: 19330 From: erielackawanna76 Date: 4/30/2002
Subject: New Products
Group: S-Trains Message: 19331 From: erierailroad@aol.com Date: 4/30/2002
Subject: New Products .....The Big Shot
Group: S-Trains Message: 19332 From: af21115 Date: 4/30/2002
Subject: Re: AF Circus animals
Group: S-Trains Message: 19333 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/30/2002
Subject: AF Circus Animals
Group: S-Trains Message: 19334 From: ironhors@swbell.net Date: 4/30/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer in Ohio????
Group: S-Trains Message: 19335 From: jahoozdumm Date: 4/30/2002
Subject: Re: BNSF Prototype pics
Group: S-Trains Message: 19336 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 5/1/2002
Subject: Re: AF Circus Animals
Group: S-Trains Message: 19337 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/1/2002
Subject: Re: AF Circus Animals
Group: S-Trains Message: 19338 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/1/2002
Subject: EBAY Items
Group: S-Trains Message: 19339 From: trzp1800 Date: 5/1/2002
Subject: Air Chime Whistle tube?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19340 From: The Reis's Date: 5/1/2002
Subject: virus emails ???
Group: S-Trains Message: 19341 From: Don Thompson Date: 5/1/2002
Subject: Re: virus emails ???
Group: S-Trains Message: 19342 From: Don Thompson Date: 5/1/2002
Subject: Re: SHS Blatant Commercialism
Group: S-Trains Message: 19343 From: Chuck Smith Date: 5/1/2002
Subject: Re: virus emails ???
Group: S-Trains Message: 19344 From: The Reis's Date: 5/1/2002
Subject: virus emails ??? Update
Group: S-Trains Message: 19345 From: notcoldenough Date: 5/1/2002
Subject: Cats & trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 19346 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Re: Cats & trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 19347 From: Tom Pennington Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Re: Cats & trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 19348 From: Donald Abrams Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Cats & Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 19349 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1440
Group: S-Trains Message: 19350 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Re: Cats & trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 19351 From: Ted Larson Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: GREAT photo and website
Group: S-Trains Message: 19352 From: John A. Conant Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Re: Cats and Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 19353 From: Bruce Papky Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Cats, (Rats), and Trains.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19354 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Cat story
Group: S-Trains Message: 19355 From: Paul Yorke Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Motor Tester
Group: S-Trains Message: 19356 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Re: Motor Tester
Group: S-Trains Message: 19357 From: af21115 Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Re: Motor Tester
Group: S-Trains Message: 19358 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: dogs and trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 19359 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: motor tester
Group: S-Trains Message: 19360 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Paul Yorke's Web Site
Group: S-Trains Message: 19361 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Dave Dewey's address
Group: S-Trains Message: 19362 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Re: Paul Yorke's Web Site
Group: S-Trains Message: 19363 From: tomsmitty2001 Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: cats and trains don't mix
Group: S-Trains Message: 19364 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: animals and trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 19365 From: fahrwud Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Cats'n'Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 19366 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Re: (no subject)THE DUCK
Group: S-Trains Message: 19367 From: Roy E. Plotnick Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: More cats
Group: S-Trains Message: 19368 From: royhoffman Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Re: More cats
Group: S-Trains Message: 19369 From: af21115 Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Re: motor tester
Group: S-Trains Message: 19370 From: Mark Preman Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: American Flyer Trains For sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 19371 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Ctt product review and 100 issue of ctt
Group: S-Trains Message: 19372 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Re: Ctt product review and 100 issue of ctt
Group: S-Trains Message: 19373 From: Doug Peck Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Re: cats and trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 19374 From: pygar2 Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: True S Gauge Figures?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19375 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: dogs and trains, rabbits and trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 19376 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Re: motor tester
Group: S-Trains Message: 19377 From: pygar2 Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Guitar Strings?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19378 From: stan sharon amanda koci Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Fw: This ones for you...]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19379 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Re: motor tester
Group: S-Trains Message: 19380 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: S-Scale figures needed?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19381 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19382 From: Chuck Smith Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Re: S-Scale figures needed?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19383 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Preiser
Group: S-Trains Message: 19384 From: Wayne and Alice Beachy Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: ACSG update
Group: S-Trains Message: 19385 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Catz
Group: S-Trains Message: 19386 From: Steve Blancard Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Re: Catz
Group: S-Trains Message: 19387 From: Ms. Judy Messinger Date: 5/4/2002
Subject: Cats & Flyers
Group: S-Trains Message: 19388 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/4/2002
Subject: Lionel ZW Transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19389 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/4/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel ZW Transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19390 From: Thomas Curley Date: 5/4/2002
Subject: Re: BNSF Prototype pics
Group: S-Trains Message: 19391 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/4/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel ZW Transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19392 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/4/2002
Subject: ZW
Group: S-Trains Message: 19393 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 5/4/2002
Subject: ZW transfformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 19394 From: Don Abrams Date: 5/4/2002
Subject: ZWs
Group: S-Trains Message: 19395 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 5/4/2002
Subject: E-mail to Classic Toy Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 19396 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/4/2002
Subject: smoke unit part numbers
Group: S-Trains Message: 19397 From: pygar2 Date: 5/5/2002
Subject: Re: S-Scale figures needed?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19398 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/5/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel ZW Transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19399 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/5/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19400 From: John Foley Date: 5/5/2002
Subject: Berkshire Junction
Group: S-Trains Message: 19401 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 5/5/2002
Subject: ZW Transformer - 4 trains??
Group: S-Trains Message: 19402 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/5/2002
Subject: Re: S-Scale figures needed?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19403 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 5/5/2002
Subject: Remote Electromagnetic couplers for American Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19404 From: Paul Yorke Date: 5/5/2002
Subject: X10 Cameras
Group: S-Trains Message: 19405 From: Gale Hall Date: 5/5/2002
Subject: Re: ZW Transformer - 4 trains??
Group: S-Trains Message: 19406 From: bassflyer Date: 5/5/2002
Subject: Re: Classic Toy Train magazine
Group: S-Trains Message: 19407 From: Neil Trump Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Warning for ebay item # 1727981284
Group: S-Trains Message: 19408 From: Knight, Gene Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: FW: American Flyer and S-Gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 19409 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Here's the Challenge!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19410 From: David Dewey Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: American Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19411 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: To: Classtrain.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19412 From: Michael Christensen Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Re: S-Scale figures needed?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19413 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Re: Classic Toy Train magazine
Group: S-Trains Message: 19414 From: Knight, Gene Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: layout question
Group: S-Trains Message: 19415 From: Chuck Smith Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Re: layout question
Group: S-Trains Message: 19416 From: Rhett T. George Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Sawmill
Group: S-Trains Message: 19417 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Re: Cats & trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 19418 From: Robert Wight Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: CTT Letter Sent
Group: S-Trains Message: 19419 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Re: Cats & trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 19420 From: Ted Walton Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: ZW, VW transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 19421 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: ZW transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 19422 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: ZW,VW
Group: S-Trains Message: 19423 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Classtrains
Group: S-Trains Message: 19424 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Re: Classtrains
Group: S-Trains Message: 19425 From: Tom Rolfsmeyer Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: [Fwd: S gauge trains]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19426 From: Tom Rolfsmeyer Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Re: S gauge trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 19427 From: Al Muncy Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: [Fwd: REQUEST MORE S GUAGE]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19428 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: ZW,VW
Group: S-Trains Message: 19429 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Blueboard usage
Group: S-Trains Message: 19430 From: Robert Wight Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Lionel Sawmill
Group: S-Trains Message: 19431 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Another e-mail from Roger at CTT
Group: S-Trains Message: 19432 From: Neil Becker Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: Re: CTT
Group: S-Trains Message: 19433 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: Caig . . . for the final time
Group: S-Trains Message: 19434 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: Re: X-10 Camera
Group: S-Trains Message: 19435 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: Check out S-Trains badge
Group: S-Trains Message: 19436 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: Re: CTT
Group: S-Trains Message: 19437 From: Rick Evans Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: CTT magazine.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 19438 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: Re: Classtrains
Group: S-Trains Message: 19439 From: jfrr54 Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: Re: Blueboard usage
Group: S-Trains Message: 19440 From: jfrr54 Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: Re: Blueboard usage
Group: S-Trains Message: 19441 From: david_s_garber Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: S- Trains show badge
Group: S-Trains Message: 19442 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1445
Group: S-Trains Message: 19443 From: Knight, Gene Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: thank you!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19444 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: ZW Transformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 19445 From: David Dewey Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: Re: Blueboard usage
Group: S-Trains Message: 19446 From: Alex Sibbald Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: track pins
Group: S-Trains Message: 19447 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: Re: LIONEL V W Transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19448 From: noramz@webtv.net Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: S-Trains 1446
Group: S-Trains Message: 19449 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: Blueboard holes
Group: S-Trains Message: 19450 From: Gill W. Lott Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Re: thank you!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19451 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Re: track pins
Group: S-Trains Message: 19452 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: track pins
Group: S-Trains Message: 19453 From: Knight, Gene Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Jim G
Group: S-Trains Message: 19454 From: David Dewey Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Re: PVC supports
Group: S-Trains Message: 19455 From: David Dewey Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Re: track pins
Group: S-Trains Message: 19456 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Roadbed Revisited
Group: S-Trains Message: 19457 From: Doug Peck Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Coal-Loader pulleys
Group: S-Trains Message: 19458 From: Roger Delthony Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Roger Carp and CTT
Group: S-Trains Message: 19459 From: David Dewey Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Re: Roadbed Revisited
Group: S-Trains Message: 19460 From: nasglibrary Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Articles in Magazines
Group: S-Trains Message: 19461 From: Steve Blancard Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Old time gondola cargo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19462 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1446
Group: S-Trains Message: 19463 From: David Dewey Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Goldberg a slur??
Group: S-Trains Message: 19464 From: Ted Walton Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: LIONEL V W Transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19465 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Lionel power plugs
Group: S-Trains Message: 19466 From: Ron Inscho Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Re: Goldberg a slur??
Group: S-Trains Message: 19467 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Spring Spree
Group: S-Trains Message: 19468 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: New Replacement MTH Coal loader Pulley
Group: S-Trains Message: 19469 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Yahoo again
Group: S-Trains Message: 19470 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: SLUR
Group: S-Trains Message: 19471 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: SLUR PS
Group: S-Trains Message: 19472 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Securing track
Group: S-Trains Message: 19473 From: Don Thompson Date: 5/9/2002
Subject: Re: Spring Spree
Group: S-Trains Message: 19474 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 5/9/2002
Subject: Re: New Replacement MTH Coal loader Pulley
Group: S-Trains Message: 19475 From: hellonc99 Date: 5/9/2002
Subject: Re: Roger Carp and CTT
Group: S-Trains Message: 19476 From: michael prell Date: 5/9/2002
Subject: Re: Goldberg a slur??
Group: S-Trains Message: 19477 From: roberte613@aol.com Date: 5/9/2002
Subject: Re: New Replacement MTH Coal loader Pulley
Group: S-Trains Message: 19478 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/9/2002
Subject: BNSF in the news
Group: S-Trains Message: 19479 From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) Date: 5/9/2002
Subject: Bristol club exclusive boxcar is now available
Group: S-Trains Message: 19480 From: Mike Vana Date: 5/9/2002
Subject: Getting that "accessory roof" finish
Group: S-Trains Message: 19481 From: M.McConnell Date: 5/9/2002
Subject: View from above
Group: S-Trains Message: 19482 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/9/2002
Subject: Re: BNSF in the news
Group: S-Trains Message: 19483 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 5/9/2002
Subject: CAN MOTOR FOR DIESELS
Group: S-Trains Message: 19484 From: alsflyer Date: 5/9/2002
Subject: Turbine Engine X-18
Group: S-Trains Message: 19485 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Re: View from above
Group: S-Trains Message: 19486 From: Michael Greene Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Re: Turbine Engine X-18
Group: S-Trains Message: 19487 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Roger Carp and CTT
Group: S-Trains Message: 19488 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: DOBBS do-it
Group: S-Trains Message: 19489 From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Timko's vs SnS Conv Motors ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19490 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Video question
Group: S-Trains Message: 19491 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: responsibility
Group: S-Trains Message: 19492 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Rube Goldberg
Group: S-Trains Message: 19493 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Re: Rube Goldberg
Group: S-Trains Message: 19494 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Re: responsibility
Group: S-Trains Message: 19495 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Clouds
Group: S-Trains Message: 19496 From: Doug Peck Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Re: MTH pulleys
Group: S-Trains Message: 19497 From: srgriggs Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Re: View from above
Group: S-Trains Message: 19498 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19499 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Re: Timko's vs SnS Conv Motors ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19500 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 19501 From: Bill Lane Date: 5/11/2002
Subject: S Scale at the PRR T & HS convention
Group: S-Trains Message: 19502 From: Steve Blancard Date: 5/11/2002
Subject: ON30 caboose converted to S
Group: S-Trains Message: 19503 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/11/2002
Subject: Re: ON30 caboose converted to S
Group: S-Trains Message: 19504 From: bassflyer Date: 5/11/2002
Subject: Re: "Modern Guy" On30 conversion....
Group: S-Trains Message: 19505 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 5/11/2002
Subject: 15%
Group: S-Trains Message: 19506 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 5/12/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] brass 70 tonner
Group: S-Trains Message: 19507 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 5/12/2002
Subject: Apology
Group: S-Trains Message: 19508 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 5/12/2002
Subject: Re: Rube Goldberg
Group: S-Trains Message: 19509 From: Steve Blancard Date: 5/12/2002
Subject: Re: ON30 caboose converted to S
Group: S-Trains Message: 19510 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/12/2002
Subject: "T" word
Group: S-Trains Message: 19511 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/12/2002
Subject: Re: Rube Goldberg
Group: S-Trains Message: 19512 From: John Foley Date: 5/12/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] brass 70 tonner
Group: S-Trains Message: 19513 From: David Dewey Date: 5/12/2002
Subject: Re: Rube Goldberg
Group: S-Trains Message: 19514 From: John Foley Date: 5/12/2002
Subject: GE 70 Tonner
Group: S-Trains Message: 19515 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/12/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19516 From: Wayne and Alice Beachy Date: 5/12/2002
Subject: RapidRail update
Group: S-Trains Message: 19517 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/12/2002
Subject: Re: ON30 caboose converted to S
Group: S-Trains Message: 19518 From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR Date: 5/13/2002
Subject: Articles in Magazines
Group: S-Trains Message: 19519 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 5/13/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] S 70 tonner
Group: S-Trains Message: 19520 From: bassflyer Date: 5/13/2002
Subject: Tony Koester's "S" article in MR
Group: S-Trains Message: 19521 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/13/2002
Subject: articles in magazines
Group: S-Trains Message: 19522 From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR Date: 5/13/2002
Subject: Hoquat PCC
Group: S-Trains Message: 19523 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 5/13/2002
Subject: CTT
Group: S-Trains Message: 19524 From: The Reis's Date: 5/13/2002
Subject: AF LTI PA1 ABA set on ebay
Group: S-Trains Message: 19525 From: Robert Jackson Date: 5/13/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] S 70 tonner
Group: S-Trains Message: 19526 From: Clifford Manning Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 19527 From: Clifford Manning Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 19528 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Spree car
Group: S-Trains Message: 19529 From: nasglibrary Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: TRom Jarcho on CTT articles
Group: S-Trains Message: 19530 From: bassflyer Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Re: Tom Jarcho on CTT articles
Group: S-Trains Message: 19531 From: Clifford Manning Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: train set
Group: S-Trains Message: 19532 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Re: train set
Group: S-Trains Message: 19533 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Re: articles in magazines
Group: S-Trains Message: 19534 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: AF Switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 19535 From: David Dewey Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Re: articles in magazines
Group: S-Trains Message: 19536 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Re: articles in magazines
Group: S-Trains Message: 19537 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 19538 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Re: AF Switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 19539 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 19540 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Re: articles in magazines
Group: S-Trains Message: 19541 From: David Dewey Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Re: AF Switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 19542 From: roy inman Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Re: Tom Jarcho on CTT articles
Group: S-Trains Message: 19543 From: nyc17819@aol.com Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: BNSF Genetic Testing
Group: S-Trains Message: 19544 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Re: AF Switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 19545 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Need some help
Group: S-Trains Message: 19546 From: David Dewey Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Re: AF Switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 19547 From: frilen2 Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Lamont Heppe
Group: S-Trains Message: 19548 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Spree car
Group: S-Trains Message: 19549 From: David Dewey Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: Viruses from Yahoo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19550 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: Re: Viruses from Yahoo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19552 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: Spam & Viruses from ???
Group: S-Trains Message: 19553 From: Rick Evans Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: Articles, writers, trains,....
Group: S-Trains Message: 19554 From: rfgiardina Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: Virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 19555 From: af21115 Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: Re: Viruses from Yahoo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19556 From: af21115 Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: Re: Virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 19557 From: David Dewey Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: Re: Spam & Viruses from ???
Group: S-Trains Message: 19558 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: Re: Viruses from Yahoo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19559 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: Re: AF Switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 19560 From: Ted Walton Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: LIONEL V W Transformer and plug repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 19561 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: Lost message
Group: S-Trains Message: 19562 From: Clifford Manning Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: Pike Master
Group: S-Trains Message: 19563 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/16/2002
Subject: LIONEL V W Transformer and plug repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 19564 From: Scott Holm Date: 5/16/2002
Subject: Re: Virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 19565 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/16/2002
Subject: Re: Virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 19566 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/16/2002
Subject: Re: Viruses from Yahoo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19567 From: af21115 Date: 5/16/2002
Subject: Re: Viruses from Yahoo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19568 From: John Foley Date: 5/16/2002
Subject: MM&T
Group: S-Trains Message: 19569 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 5/16/2002
Subject: S attention getter-100% sure fire
Group: S-Trains Message: 19570 From: John Foley Date: 5/16/2002
Subject: Cincinnati Union Station S Layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 19571 From: Don Abrams Date: 5/16/2002
Subject: Pikemaster
Group: S-Trains Message: 19572 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/16/2002
Subject: Photos Glitch
Group: S-Trains Message: 19573 From: bassflyer Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: Re: Photos Glitch
Group: S-Trains Message: 19574 From: rfgiardina Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 19575 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: Dyeing Lichen
Group: S-Trains Message: 19576 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: Re: virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 19577 From: John Foley Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: Great Northern Sand & Gravel
Group: S-Trains Message: 19578 From: TCS Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: Fw: [alpsdecal] Yahoo returns pay groups to the table?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19579 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: 283 Pacific chassis
Group: S-Trains Message: 19580 From: af21115 Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: [alpsdecal] Yahoo returns pay groups to the table?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19581 From: af21115 Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: Re: 283 Pacific chassis
Group: S-Trains Message: 19582 From: Scott Holm Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: Who's infected?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19583 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: BUDD CAR SETS
Group: S-Trains Message: 19584 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19585 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: Re: S attention getter-100% sure fire
Group: S-Trains Message: 19586 From: David Dewey Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: Re: 283 Pacific chassis
Group: S-Trains Message: 19587 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: Re: Photos Glitch
Group: S-Trains Message: 19588 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: [alpsdecal] Yahoo returns pay groups to the table?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19589 From: Michael Christensen Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: DIRECTIONAL CONTROL BUTTON???
Group: S-Trains Message: 19590 From: af21115 Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: Re: 283 Pacific chassis
Group: S-Trains Message: 19591 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: Re: DIRECTIONAL CONTROL BUTTON???
Group: S-Trains Message: 19592 From: rfgiardina Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: Re: DIRECTIONAL CONTROL BUTTON???
Group: S-Trains Message: 19593 From: rfgiardina Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: Re: 283 Pacific chassis
Group: S-Trains Message: 19594 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: 293 chassis
Group: S-Trains Message: 19595 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: Re: DIRECTIONAL CONTROL BUTTON???
Group: S-Trains Message: 19596 From: Neil Trump Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: Re: early K-5 chassis and pul-mors
Group: S-Trains Message: 19597 From: David Dewey Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: Re: early K-5 chassis and pul-mors
Group: S-Trains Message: 19598 From: dmsapadin Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: Talking Station
Group: S-Trains Message: 19599 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: BUDD SETS
Group: S-Trains Message: 19600 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Magnetic glueing jigs
Group: S-Trains Message: 19601 From: Thomas Curley Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: TCA Museum
Group: S-Trains Message: 19602 From: Don Thompson Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Re: TCA Museum
Group: S-Trains Message: 19603 From: HOGHEADHAT@AOL.COM Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: New hoghead hatwear items announcement
Group: S-Trains Message: 19604 From: David Dewey Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Re: TCA Museum--presentation time avail?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19605 From: Bill Lane Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Pennsy S Models X-29 project update
Group: S-Trains Message: 19606 From: fjg1870 Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Fwd: S Scale CAT Vehiles
Group: S-Trains Message: 19607 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: strrrrrange emails
Group: S-Trains Message: 19608 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Re: strrrrrange emails
Group: S-Trains Message: 19609 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19610 From: Paul Yorke Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: more paper buildings
Group: S-Trains Message: 19611 From: mlmarmer Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Re: strrrrrange emails
Group: S-Trains Message: 19612 From: Robert E. Yablonski Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1458
Group: S-Trains Message: 19613 From: Tom Doherty Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Re: Fwd: S Scale CAT Vehiles
Group: S-Trains Message: 19614 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: All alone!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19615 From: noramz@webtv.net Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Extra stack, what is it?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19616 From: bassflyer Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: I sent out an email w/an attachment....
Group: S-Trains Message: 19617 From: Ron Inscho Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Re: Extra stack, what is it?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19618 From: bassflyer Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Re: strrrrrange emails
Group: S-Trains Message: 19619 From: David Dewey Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Re: strrrrrange emails
Group: S-Trains Message: 19620 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Re: strrrrrange emails
Group: S-Trains Message: 19621 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: More ROOM!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19622 From: Neil Becker Date: 5/20/2002
Subject: Another AF transformer question.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19623 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 5/20/2002
Subject: CLASSIC TOY TRAINS DOES CARE
Group: S-Trains Message: 19624 From: Doug Peck Date: 5/20/2002
Subject: Re: viruses
Group: S-Trains Message: 19625 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/20/2002
Subject: Re: Extra stack, what is it?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19626 From: Roger Delthony Date: 5/20/2002
Subject: Klez virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 19627 From: Dennis A Troini Date: 5/20/2002
Subject: Re: viruses
Group: S-Trains Message: 19628 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/20/2002
Subject: Sluggish Frogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 19629 From: Ron Inscho Date: 5/20/2002
Subject: Re: Extra stack, what is it?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19630 From: notcoldenough Date: 5/20/2002
Subject: Re: Another AF transformer question.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19631 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/20/2002
Subject: Re: Extra stack, what is it?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19632 From: Ron Inscho Date: 5/20/2002
Subject: Re: Extra stack, what is it?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19633 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/20/2002
Subject: transformer wattage ratings
Group: S-Trains Message: 19634 From: Paul Yorke Date: 5/21/2002
Subject: thefatearl@aol.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19635 From: Bill Clark Date: 5/21/2002
Subject: Bristol Club Pictures, BL-2!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19636 From: Ted Larson Date: 5/21/2002
Subject: Yahoo FREE???????
Group: S-Trains Message: 19637 From: joshseltzer Date: 5/21/2002
Subject: NASG 2002 Convention Car Alert!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19638 From: Ron Inscho Date: 5/21/2002
Subject: Fw: STACKS& BOOSTERS
Group: S-Trains Message: 19639 From: Neimanis,V. [NCR] Date: 5/21/2002
Subject: Re: Sluggish Frogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 19640 From: knockbill Date: 5/21/2002
Subject: sluggish frogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 19641 From: Knight, Gene Date: 5/21/2002
Subject: sluggish frogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 19642 From: nhterpsfan Date: 5/21/2002
Subject: Fyi, a fun contest to win a free S-scale car
Group: S-Trains Message: 19643 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/22/2002
Subject: Re: sluggish frogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 19644 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 5/22/2002
Subject: Walthers catalog
Group: S-Trains Message: 19645 From: Paul Yorke Date: 5/22/2002
Subject: PSL Train Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 19646 From: Alex Date: 5/22/2002
Subject: Re: sluggish frogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 19647 From: David Dewey Date: 5/22/2002
Subject: Re: sluggish frogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 19648 From: notcoldenough Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: Dual billboard whistle
Group: S-Trains Message: 19649 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: Re: sluggish frogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 19650 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: WD 40 oil
Group: S-Trains Message: 19651 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: Uses for the 761 semaphore
Group: S-Trains Message: 19652 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: Back to Oil
Group: S-Trains Message: 19653 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: Re: Back to Oil
Group: S-Trains Message: 19654 From: bassflyer Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: 0il....
Group: S-Trains Message: 19655 From: Rick Evans Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: The "Tehachapi Loop"....
Group: S-Trains Message: 19656 From: Robert Wight Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: Oil
Group: S-Trains Message: 19657 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1462
Group: S-Trains Message: 19658 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: oil
Group: S-Trains Message: 19659 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: Re: Back to Oil
Group: S-Trains Message: 19660 From: dmsapadin Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: Thanks to Everyone!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19661 From: dmsapadin Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: WD-40 vs. Oil
Group: S-Trains Message: 19662 From: notcoldenough Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: Re: WD 40 oil
Group: S-Trains Message: 19663 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: lithium grease
Group: S-Trains Message: 19664 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: Uses for the 761 semaphore
Group: S-Trains Message: 19665 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: Re: lithium grease
Group: S-Trains Message: 19666 From: mark.p.baker@bt.com Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: CANCELLED! - Spring 2002 King's Cross Railway Book Fair
Group: S-Trains Message: 19669 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: Re: Tom's P.S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19670 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: LED'S
Group: S-Trains Message: 19671 From: Chuck Smith Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: Re: LED'S
Group: S-Trains Message: 19672 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19673 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: Re: LED'S
Group: S-Trains Message: 19674 From: Ron Inscho Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: Re: LED'S
Group: S-Trains Message: 19675 From: Dennis A Troini Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: Re: Back to Oil
Group: S-Trains Message: 19676 From: Dennis A Troini Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: Re: oil
Group: S-Trains Message: 19677 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: LEDS
Group: S-Trains Message: 19678 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: Re: Back to Oil
Group: S-Trains Message: 19679 From: bassflyer Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: Re: Back to Oil
Group: S-Trains Message: 19680 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: BACK TO OIL
Group: S-Trains Message: 19681 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: TEST ONLY
Group: S-Trains Message: 19682 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/25/2002
Subject: Re: Back to Oil
Group: S-Trains Message: 19683 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 5/25/2002
Subject: Clipper Oil Sources
Group: S-Trains Message: 19684 From: David Dewey Date: 5/25/2002
Subject: Re: Clipper Oil Sources
Group: S-Trains Message: 19685 From: lou342ac Date: 5/25/2002
Subject: Re: Clipper Oil Sources
Group: S-Trains Message: 19686 From: Robert E. Yablonski Date: 5/25/2002
Subject: LED
Group: S-Trains Message: 19687 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/25/2002
Subject: LED
Group: S-Trains Message: 19688 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/25/2002
Subject: LED vs Light bulbs
Group: S-Trains Message: 19689 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/25/2002
Subject: Ah-HAH!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19690 From: notcoldenough Date: 5/25/2002
Subject: Re: Back to Oil
Group: S-Trains Message: 19691 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 5/25/2002
Subject: Re: Ah-HAH!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19692 From: Paul Yorke Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Yahoo - Pay as you go - Off Topic
Group: S-Trains Message: 19693 From: Don Thompson Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Re: FGEX reefer and still more blatant merchandising
Group: S-Trains Message: 19694 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Re: Ah-HAH!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19695 From: Don Thompson Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Re: Ah-HAH!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19696 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Re: Back to Oil
Group: S-Trains Message: 19697 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Re: Ah-HAH!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19698 From: Michael Greene Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Re: Ah-HAH!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19699 From: Tom Pennington Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Re: Ah-HAH!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19700 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Ah-HAH!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19701 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Oil & longevity
Group: S-Trains Message: 19702 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Re: Ah-HAH!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19703 From: Chuck Smith Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Re: Oil & longevity
Group: S-Trains Message: 19704 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19705 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Contact
Group: S-Trains Message: 19706 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: OT:Re: Ah-HAH!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19707 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Re: Ah-HAH!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19708 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Re: Ah-HAH!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19709 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: AHA! and What do I do to chat??
Group: S-Trains Message: 19710 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: The Saga Continues...
Group: S-Trains Message: 19711 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: Bachmann kit bashed reefer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19712 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: an S manufacturer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19713 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: Paper Buildings
Group: S-Trains Message: 19714 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: signs
Group: S-Trains Message: 19715 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: signs
Group: S-Trains Message: 19716 From: Paul Yorke Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: Number Fun or S-Trains Traffic Trends
Group: S-Trains Message: 19717 From: eldub44 Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: Getting Started AGain-Building a Layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 19718 From: eldub44 Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: Getting Started AGain-Building a Layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 19719 From: srgriggs Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: OT:Re: Ah-HAH!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19720 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: Re: OT:Re: Ah-HAH!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19721 From: Rick Evans Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: I'm confused...!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19722 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: Re: I'm confused...!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19723 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: To Yahoo, or Not to Yahoo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19724 From: tom_rolfsmeyer Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: Museum pictures
Group: S-Trains Message: 19725 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: Re: AH-HAH
Group: S-Trains Message: 19726 From: David Dewey Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: Re: I'm confused...!! and other things.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19727 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: OT:Re: Ah-HAH!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19728 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: My poor ole finger
Group: S-Trains Message: 19729 From: Michael Greene Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Re: OT:Re: Ah-HAH!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19730 From: David Dewey Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Virus irony!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19731 From: David Dewey Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Re: My poor ole finger
Group: S-Trains Message: 19732 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: California here I came!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19733 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: spam and popups
Group: S-Trains Message: 19734 From: Jerry Riechert Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1467
Group: S-Trains Message: 19735 From: yazfacts Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: People for layouts........
Group: S-Trains Message: 19736 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Re: My poor ole finger a gittin bigger.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19737 From: notcoldenough Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Fix for Lionels Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 19738 From: zane323 Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Erie Fix
Group: S-Trains Message: 19739 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Enough Yahoo!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19740 From: Peter Ervin Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Grand Canyon Railway
Group: S-Trains Message: 19741 From: Tom Rolfsmeyer Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Re: Museum pictures
Group: S-Trains Message: 19742 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Re: Erie Fix
Group: S-Trains Message: 19743 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Enough Yahoo-SIT K-5
Group: S-Trains Message: 19744 From: William Porter Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: No Virus Problems
Group: S-Trains Message: 19745 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Re: No Virus Problems
Group: S-Trains Message: 19746 From: TED R LARSON Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Fw: road signs
Group: S-Trains Message: 19747 From: ironhors@swbell.net Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Re: Enough Yahoo-SIT K-5
Group: S-Trains Message: 19748 From: bassflyer Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Post content & reading posts & the Loop...
Group: S-Trains Message: 19749 From: lou342ac Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Old Thread
Group: S-Trains Message: 19750 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: S-Video Quiz
Group: S-Trains Message: 19751 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: QUIZ
Group: S-Trains Message: 19752 From: frilen2 Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Video Quiz
Group: S-Trains Message: 19753 From: bassflyer Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Re: Video Quiz
Group: S-Trains Message: 19754 From: frilen2 Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Video Quiz
Group: S-Trains Message: 19755 From: Gary Chidester Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Video Quiz
Group: S-Trains Message: 19756 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Re-stringing my 944
Group: S-Trains Message: 19757 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] California here I came!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19758 From: af21115 Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Re: QUIZ
Group: S-Trains Message: 19759 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: 944 string
Group: S-Trains Message: 19760 From: Ted Larson Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Bar Mills Kit
Group: S-Trains Message: 19763 From: dmsapadin Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Slipping on New Gargraves Track
Group: S-Trains Message: 19764 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: More Visitors, Publishing, & WGH campaign....
Group: S-Trains Message: 19765 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Re: Bar Mills Kit
Group: S-Trains Message: 19766 From: yazfacts Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Red 649.....?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19767 From: Chuck Smith Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Re: Slipping on New Gargraves Track
Group: S-Trains Message: 19768 From: John Foley Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: S Signals
Group: S-Trains Message: 19769 From: bassflyer Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Red 649?? Yeppers!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19770 From: Dennis A Troini Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Re: Re-stringing my 944
Group: S-Trains Message: 19771 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Re: Red 649.....?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19772 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Re: Red 649.....?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19773 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Re: Red 649.....?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19774 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: American Flyer quiz
Group: S-Trains Message: 19775 From: bassflyer Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Red 649..Yeppers? Nopers??
Group: S-Trains Message: 19776 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Book wrong ???
Group: S-Trains Message: 19777 From: Gary Chidester Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Quiz
Group: S-Trains Message: 19778 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Ghost towns
Group: S-Trains Message: 19779 From: frilen2 Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Quiz
Group: S-Trains Message: 19780 From: fjg1870 Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: Re: Red 649?? Yeppers!! (Yes but)
Group: S-Trains Message: 19781 From: Wayne Zebron Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: Grand Canyon Railway
Group: S-Trains Message: 19782 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: Re: Red 649 and more
Group: S-Trains Message: 19783 From: sportlands Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: Source for Decals
Group: S-Trains Message: 19784 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: Re: Red 649.....?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19785 From: David Dewey Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: Re: Red 649?? Yeppers!! (Yes but)
Group: S-Trains Message: 19786 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: "American Flyer" quiz result
Group: S-Trains Message: 19787 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: Hannons book
Group: S-Trains Message: 19788 From: Don Thompson Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: Re: Source for Decals
Group: S-Trains Message: 19789 From: John Foley Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: NASG Convention Clinic.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19790 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: Re: NASG Convention Clinic.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19791 From: bassflyer Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: Re: Hannons book
Group: S-Trains Message: 19792 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: #20425 set with 21005
Group: S-Trains Message: 19793 From: kempfam@aol.com Date: 5/31/2002
Subject: Grand Canyon Ry
Group: S-Trains Message: 19794 From: kempfam@aol.com Date: 5/31/2002
Subject: Grand Canyon Ry
Group: S-Trains Message: 19795 From: clarklumbe@aol.com Date: 5/31/2002
Subject: Source for Decals
Group: S-Trains Message: 19796 From: Hannon Date: 5/31/2002
Subject: Wire Gauges :(- and other things :-)
Group: S-Trains Message: 19797 From: John Foley Date: 5/31/2002
Subject: Re: NASG Convention Clinic.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19798 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/31/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19799 From: Rick Evans Date: 6/1/2002
Subject: Traction tires for AF?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19800 From: Rick Evans Date: 6/1/2002
Subject: CTT,..again!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19801 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 6/1/2002
Subject: Re: CTT
Group: S-Trains Message: 19802 From: Robert Wight Date: 6/1/2002
Subject: Re: Traction tires for AF?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19803 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 6/1/2002
Subject: CTT
Group: S-Trains Message: 19804 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/1/2002
Subject: Re: CTT
Group: S-Trains Message: 19805 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/1/2002
Subject: Re: CTT
Group: S-Trains Message: 19806 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: Re: Traction tires for AF?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19807 From: Roger Hinds Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: CTT & other train mags.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19808 From: joeawood@aol.com Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: CTT
Group: S-Trains Message: 19809 From: bassflyer Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: Re: CTT
Group: S-Trains Message: 19810 From: Bill Lane Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: S Scale H30A
Group: S-Trains Message: 19811 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: Re: CTT,..again!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19812 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19813 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: Re: S Scale H30A
Group: S-Trains Message: 19814 From: Roger Hinds Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: Re: CTT & other train mags.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19815 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: what the heck is going on?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19816 From: Gerry Evans Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: More worms
Group: S-Trains Message: 19817 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: Cleveland Design on E-Bay
Group: S-Trains Message: 19818 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: Lightning restrike!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19819 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19820 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: S 'n S Can Motor
Group: S-Trains Message: 19821 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: Re: S 'n S Can Motor
Group: S-Trains Message: 19822 From: louis glumac Date: 6/3/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19823 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 6/3/2002
Subject: Viral E-mail??? gabbysuz?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19824 From: Scott Holm Date: 6/3/2002
Subject: New infections
Group: S-Trains Message: 19825 From: Roger Hinds Date: 6/3/2002
Subject: Train virus ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19826 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/3/2002
Subject: Virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 19827 From: rcon7@bellsouth.net Date: 6/3/2002
Subject: Re: Virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 19828 From: louis glumac Date: 6/3/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19829 From: Damian Brindell Date: 6/3/2002
Subject: Re: Viral E-mail??? gabbysuz?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19830 From: Roger Hinds Date: 6/3/2002
Subject: Re: Virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 19831 From: Roger Hinds Date: 6/3/2002
Subject: Trains and viruses
Group: S-Trains Message: 19832 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: small lay outs
Group: S-Trains Message: 19833 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: small lay outs
Group: S-Trains Message: 19834 From: Wayne Zebron Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 19835 From: Scott Holm Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Re: Virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 19836 From: John Foley Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Railroad Model Craftsman
Group: S-Trains Message: 19837 From: Tim Brown Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 19838 From: af21115 Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: [S-Trains] virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 19839 From: Paul Yorke Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: New 'S' Website!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19840 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: SPAM and Viruses
Group: S-Trains Message: 19841 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: OK
Group: S-Trains Message: 19842 From: Don Thompson Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Re: Blatant Commerce from SHS
Group: S-Trains Message: 19843 From: Robert Wight Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Re: New 'S' Website!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19844 From: Tim Brown Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: [S-Trains] virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 19845 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: viruses and Tim Brown
Group: S-Trains Message: 19846 From: AF336 Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: [S-Trains] virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 19847 From: roy inman Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Virie, etc.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19848 From: Tom Pennington Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Re: viruses and Tim Brown
Group: S-Trains Message: 19849 From: Knight, Gene Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: more virus stuff
Group: S-Trains Message: 19850 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Re: New 'S' Website!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19851 From: Gary Chidester Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Inspector Nail?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19852 From: David Dewey Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Re: Inspector Nail?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19853 From: Tim Brown Date: 6/5/2002
Subject: Virus & me
Group: S-Trains Message: 19854 From: bassflyer Date: 6/5/2002
Subject: Virus protection and new site....
Group: S-Trains Message: 19855 From: Roger Hinds Date: 6/5/2002
Subject: Virus protection product
Group: S-Trains Message: 19856 From: Mark Preman Date: 6/5/2002
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 19857 From: cliffgarz@aol.com Date: 6/5/2002
Subject: Re: Virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 19858 From: bassflyer Date: 6/5/2002
Subject: PC/Mac.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 19859 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 6/5/2002
Subject: Re: PC/Mac..... and Risky behavior
Group: S-Trains Message: 19860 From: The Reis's Date: 6/5/2002
Subject: Passenger car project and a product question
Group: S-Trains Message: 19861 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 6/5/2002
Subject: UP Steam tour
Group: S-Trains Message: 19862 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 6/5/2002
Subject: eBay, Virus, etc
Group: S-Trains Message: 19863 From: Tim Brown Date: 6/6/2002
Subject: Re: eBay, Virus, etc
Group: S-Trains Message: 19864 From: Clifford Manning Date: 6/6/2002
Subject: web site problems
Group: S-Trains Message: 19865 From: Tim Brown Date: 6/6/2002
Subject: Re: web site problems
Group: S-Trains Message: 19866 From: hcopter52 Date: 6/6/2002
Subject: Greenberg Guide to American Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19867 From: Linda & Ted Weiler Date: 6/6/2002
Subject: Fall 'S' Fest
Group: S-Trains Message: 19868 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 19869 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1478
Group: S-Trains Message: 19870 From: Paul Yorke Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: more virus - sorry guys
Group: S-Trains Message: 19871 From: robert allen conner Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1478
Group: S-Trains Message: 19872 From: plotnick Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Fall S-Fest
Group: S-Trains Message: 19873 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Paul Yorke
Group: S-Trains Message: 19874 From: bassflyer Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Re: Greenberg Guide to American Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19875 From: Paul Yorke Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Trying to clear the confusion
Group: S-Trains Message: 19876 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Re: New 'S' Website!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19877 From: Mike Vana Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Boxed AF 906 crane car
Group: S-Trains Message: 19878 From: Ron Inscho Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] Boxed AF 906 crane car
Group: S-Trains Message: 19879 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19880 From: af21115 Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1478
Group: S-Trains Message: 19881 From: Joseph Haughney Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Where do you find this stuff??
Group: S-Trains Message: 19882 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: 906 crane car
Group: S-Trains Message: 19883 From: David Dewey Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Re: Where do you find this stuff??
Group: S-Trains Message: 19884 From: Chuck Smith Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Re: Where do you find this stuff??
Group: S-Trains Message: 19885 From: Roger Delthony Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Deger Volume I - Motive Power
Group: S-Trains Message: 19886 From: The Reis's Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Re: Where do you find this stuff??
Group: S-Trains Message: 19887 From: Clifford Manning Date: 6/8/2002
Subject: 322 power
Group: S-Trains Message: 19888 From: Tim Brown Date: 6/8/2002
Subject: Re: Where do you find this stuff??
Group: S-Trains Message: 19889 From: David Dewey Date: 6/8/2002
Subject: Re: 322 power
Group: S-Trains Message: 19890 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 6/8/2002
Subject: Garage Sales & AF
Group: S-Trains Message: 19891 From: Tim Brown Date: 6/8/2002
Subject: Re: Garage Sales & AF
Group: S-Trains Message: 19892 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/8/2002
Subject: Re: Where do you find this stuff??
Group: S-Trains Message: 19893 From: robert allen conner Date: 6/8/2002
Subject: WHERE I FOUND IT......
Group: S-Trains Message: 19894 From: Robert Wight Date: 6/8/2002
Subject: garage sale find
Group: S-Trains Message: 19895 From: David Dewey Date: 6/8/2002
Subject: Re: 322 power--one more thing!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19896 From: David Dewey Date: 6/8/2002
Subject: Re: Garage Sales & AF
Group: S-Trains Message: 19897 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 6/8/2002
Subject: turret transformer rollers
Group: S-Trains Message: 19898 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/9/2002
Subject: Re: 322 power--one more thing!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19899 From: Rick Evans Date: 6/9/2002
Subject: Swap meets/yard sales....
Group: S-Trains Message: 19900 From: louis glumac Date: 6/9/2002
Subject: Re: Swap meets/yard sales....
Group: S-Trains Message: 19901 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 6/9/2002
Subject: 1/64 Vehicles
Group: S-Trains Message: 19902 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 6/9/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19903 From: mhrywest Date: 6/9/2002
Subject: MHry Weekend Report
Group: S-Trains Message: 19904 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/9/2002
Subject: FROSTED PASS CAR WINDOWS
Group: S-Trains Message: 19905 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/9/2002
Subject: Re: 322 power--one more thing!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19906 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 6/9/2002
Subject: Window material
Group: S-Trains Message: 19907 From: aolh2oman Date: 6/9/2002
Subject: Hi Rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 19908 From: Linda & Ted Weiler Date: 6/10/2002
Subject: Chicago Area 'S' Fest
Group: S-Trains Message: 19909 From: Roy E. Plotnick Date: 6/10/2002
Subject: Re: Garage sales etc.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19910 From: rodgers_carl Date: 6/10/2002
Subject: Re: Window material
Group: S-Trains Message: 19911 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/10/2002
Subject: Re: Window material
Group: S-Trains Message: 19912 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/10/2002
Subject: Re: Window material
Group: S-Trains Message: 19913 From: hcopter52 Date: 6/10/2002
Subject: Re: Garage Sales & AF
Group: S-Trains Message: 19914 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 6/10/2002
Subject: Where do you buy RMC?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19915 From: Steve Blancard Date: 6/10/2002
Subject: Using grain of wheat bulbs
Group: S-Trains Message: 19916 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/10/2002
Subject: TRYING TO SEE IF MY MAIL IS WORKING
Group: S-Trains Message: 19917 From: Lance McCold Date: 6/10/2002
Subject: Walthers Sale catalog S-scale building kit
Group: S-Trains Message: 19918 From: Don Thompson Date: 6/11/2002
Subject: Re: Walthers Sale catalog S-scale building kit
Group: S-Trains Message: 19919 From: Paul Yorke Date: 6/11/2002
Subject: Re: Trying to clear the confusion
Group: S-Trains Message: 19920 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 6/11/2002
Subject: Re: Trying to clear the confusion
Group: S-Trains Message: 19921 From: crustyfour Date: 6/11/2002
Subject: Re: Using grain of wheat bulbs
Group: S-Trains Message: 19922 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 6/11/2002
Subject: Building a Kit
Group: S-Trains Message: 19923 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 6/11/2002
Subject: Re: Walthers
Group: S-Trains Message: 19924 From: Don Thompson Date: 6/11/2002
Subject: Re: The Today Show & S Gauge?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19925 From: knockbill Date: 6/11/2002
Subject: 342 tender
Group: S-Trains Message: 19926 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 6/11/2002
Subject: Building kit
Group: S-Trains Message: 19927 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 6/11/2002
Subject: more viruses
Group: S-Trains Message: 19928 From: Linda & Ted Weiler Date: 6/11/2002
Subject: San Diego
Group: S-Trains Message: 19929 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 6/12/2002
Subject: Re: Building kit
Group: S-Trains Message: 19930 From: royhoffman Date: 6/12/2002
Subject: Re: Building kit
Group: S-Trains Message: 19931 From: crustyfour Date: 6/12/2002
Subject: LEDs for Franklin headlight ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19932 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 6/12/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1476
Group: S-Trains Message: 19933 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 6/12/2002
Subject: 343 PIC
Group: S-Trains Message: 19934 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 6/12/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1476
Group: S-Trains Message: 19935 From: af21115 Date: 6/12/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1476
Group: S-Trains Message: 19936 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 6/12/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1476
Group: S-Trains Message: 19937 From: David Dewey Date: 6/12/2002
Subject: Date Nails
Group: S-Trains Message: 19938 From: TED R LARSON Date: 6/12/2002
Subject: ABS adhesive
Group: S-Trains Message: 19939 From: Alan Evans Date: 6/12/2002
Subject: For Sale: CN 5-car Set
Group: S-Trains Message: 19940 From: IronHorse Date: 6/12/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1476
Group: S-Trains Message: 19941 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1484
Group: S-Trains Message: 19942 From: royhoffman Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Re: The Today Show & S Gauge?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19943 From: robert allen conner Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Re: The Today Show & S Gauge?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19944 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Today Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 19945 From: royhoffman Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Re: Today Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 19946 From: IronHorse Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1484
Group: S-Trains Message: 19947 From: IronHorse Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Re: Today Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 19948 From: royhoffman Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Re: Today Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 19949 From: SCrabTiger@aol.com Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Idaho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19950 From: Wayne and Alice Beachy Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Web page updates
Group: S-Trains Message: 19951 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: All-Aboard set packing
Group: S-Trains Message: 19952 From: nasglibrary Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Date Nails
Group: S-Trains Message: 19953 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: alaska train people
Group: S-Trains Message: 19954 From: IronHorse Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Re: Today Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 19955 From: IronHorse Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Re: Today Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 19956 From: joe messinger Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Today Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 19957 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Today Show trivia / WGH observation
Group: S-Trains Message: 19958 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Today Show trivia / WGH observation
Group: S-Trains Message: 19959 From: joe messinger Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Today/J.L.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19960 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Fw: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1476
Group: S-Trains Message: 19961 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: TODAY SHOW & TRAINS
Group: S-Trains Message: 19962 From: royhoffman Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Re: TODAY SHOW & TRAINS
Group: S-Trains Message: 19963 From: joe messinger Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: J.L.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19964 From: nasglibrary Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Today Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 19965 From: Gary Chidester Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: S-Helper......WOW!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19966 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: TODAY SHOW
Group: S-Trains Message: 19967 From: David Dewey Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Re: S-Helper......WOW!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19968 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Wanted: mail order hobby shop
Group: S-Trains Message: 19969 From: Neil Trump Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Circus set on Ebay
Group: S-Trains Message: 19970 From: eric reis Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Re: Wanted: mail order hobby shop
Group: S-Trains Message: 19971 From: Steve Jones Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Change of eMail address
Group: S-Trains Message: 19972 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Train paintings and Today show original host.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19973 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19974 From: John Foley Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: NASG Steel Structure
Group: S-Trains Message: 19975 From: Wayne and Alice Beachy Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Opps
Group: S-Trains Message: 19976 From: bassflyer Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Re: S-Helper......WOW!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19977 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: 336 tender
Group: S-Trains Message: 19978 From: Rick Evans Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Fw: Download billboard ads for your layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 19979 From: Rick Evans Date: 6/15/2002
Subject: SHS trucks on Flyer.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19980 From: Paul Yorke Date: 6/16/2002
Subject: Links on New site - your chance to help
Group: S-Trains Message: 19981 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 6/16/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19982 From: Bill Lane Date: 6/16/2002
Subject: Photo track
Group: S-Trains Message: 19983 From: rxman46321 Date: 6/16/2002
Subject: 343 pictures
Group: S-Trains Message: 19984 From: nhterpsfan Date: 6/16/2002
Subject: Any S Cadrail users ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19985 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 6/16/2002
Subject: UP 4-6-6-4 Challenger #3985 tour.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19986 From: Clifford Manning Date: 6/16/2002
Subject: trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 19987 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 6/17/2002
Subject: Using SHS trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 19988 From: Hannon Date: 6/17/2002
Subject: S-Gauge Reference Manual Update Available
Group: S-Trains Message: 19989 From: Paul Yorke Date: 6/17/2002
Subject: old links plus trivia
Group: S-Trains Message: 19990 From: Rick Evans Date: 6/17/2002
Subject: SHS Trucks on Flyer....
Group: S-Trains Message: 19991 From: Paul Yorke Date: 6/17/2002
Subject: Keeps getting better
Group: S-Trains Message: 19992 From: Ted Larson Date: 6/18/2002
Subject: Re: 1/64 or 1/61 Scale
Group: S-Trains Message: 19993 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 6/18/2002
Subject: Re: 1/64 or 1/61 Scale
Group: S-Trains Message: 19994 From: IronHorse Date: 6/18/2002
Subject: Train Site crashed my computer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19995 From: af21115 Date: 6/18/2002
Subject: Re: Train Site crashed my computer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19996 From: Ted Larson Date: 6/18/2002
Subject: Re: 1/64 or 1/61 Scale
Group: S-Trains Message: 19997 From: Chuck Smith Date: 6/18/2002
Subject: Re: Using SHS trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 19998 From: Don Thompson Date: 6/18/2002
Subject: Re: Using SHS trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 19999 From: Bill Lane Date: 6/18/2002
Subject: FD-2 Queen Mary Flat photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 20000 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/18/2002
Subject: Re: Using SHS trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 20001 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/18/2002
Subject: Re: FD-2 Queen Mary Flat photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 20002 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 6/19/2002
Subject: Re: FD-2 Queen Mary Flat photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 20003 From: Clifford Manning Date: 6/19/2002
Subject: 785-A
Group: S-Trains Message: 20004 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/19/2002
Subject: FD-2 Queen Mary Flat photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 20005 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 6/19/2002
Subject: Re: FD-2 Queen Mary Flat photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 20006 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/19/2002
Subject: Re: FD-2 Queen Mary Flat photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 20007 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 6/19/2002
Subject: PRR K-5
Group: S-Trains Message: 20008 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 6/19/2002
Subject: 758A Sam the Sem
Group: S-Trains Message: 20009 From: srgriggs Date: 6/19/2002
Subject: Re: PRR K-5
Group: S-Trains Message: 20010 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 6/19/2002
Subject: Re: PRR K-5
Group: S-Trains Message: 20011 From: Rick Evans Date: 6/19/2002
Subject: SHS trucks/couplers....again!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20012 From: dougwyatt Date: 6/20/2002
Subject: AF Switches and DCC
Group: S-Trains Message: 20013 From: John Foley Date: 6/20/2002
Subject: Test
Group: S-Trains Message: 20014 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/20/2002
Subject: More toys for the 0 boys.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20015 From: Damian Brindell Date: 6/20/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20016 From: Michael Westphal Date: 6/20/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20017 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 6/20/2002
Subject: 302 Christmas Engine
Group: S-Trains Message: 20018 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/20/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Group: S-Trains Message: 20019 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/20/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Group: S-Trains Message: 20020 From: David Dewey Date: 6/20/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Group: S-Trains Message: 20021 From: Tim Brown Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20022 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Group: S-Trains Message: 20023 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Amazing
Group: S-Trains Message: 20024 From: David Dewey Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20025 From: plotnick Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Franklin Smoke Repair Advice
Group: S-Trains Message: 20026 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Group: S-Trains Message: 20027 From: David Dewey Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Group: S-Trains Message: 20028 From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Group: S-Trains Message: 20029 From: Mike Vana Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Lionel 4-12-2
Group: S-Trains Message: 20030 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Group: S-Trains Message: 20031 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Group: S-Trains Message: 20032 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Group: S-Trains Message: 20033 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel 4-12-2
Group: S-Trains Message: 20034 From: Steve Blancard Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: Franklin Smoke Repair Advice
Group: S-Trains Message: 20035 From: John L. Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: Amazing
Group: S-Trains Message: 20036 From: nasglibrary Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: New Mobley Library Service
Group: S-Trains Message: 20037 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20038 From: Tom Rolfsmeyer Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: 314 AW only goes forward
Group: S-Trains Message: 20039 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: 314
Group: S-Trains Message: 20040 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: 314
Group: S-Trains Message: 20041 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: New operating car
Group: S-Trains Message: 20042 From: bassflyer Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: New pics....
Group: S-Trains Message: 20043 From: Gary Chidester Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: 312 SIT stuck in neutral
Group: S-Trains Message: 20044 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: Amazing
Group: S-Trains Message: 20045 From: Don Thompson Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: Amazing
Group: S-Trains Message: 20046 From: Rick Evans Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Another couple of pics.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 20047 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20048 From: Mike Vana Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: S Gauge Big Steam
Group: S-Trains Message: 20049 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Group: S-Trains Message: 20050 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Group: S-Trains Message: 20051 From: Tom Doherty Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Group: S-Trains Message: 20052 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: Amazing
Group: S-Trains Message: 20053 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Group: S-Trains Message: 20054 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: New Mobley Library Service
Group: S-Trains Message: 20055 From: roy inman Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Big steam
Group: S-Trains Message: 20056 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Group: S-Trains Message: 20057 From: srgriggs Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Group: S-Trains Message: 20058 From: bassflyer Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Greenberg's Guide..AM, SHS, Etc.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20059 From: srgriggs Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge Big Steam
Group: S-Trains Message: 20060 From: srgriggs Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20061 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Group: S-Trains Message: 20062 From: Bill Lane Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: More FD-2 photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 20063 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Group: S-Trains Message: 20064 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1493
Group: S-Trains Message: 20065 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge Big Steam
Group: S-Trains Message: 20066 From: IronHorse Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge Big Steam
Group: S-Trains Message: 20067 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge Big Steam--OOPS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20068 From: Mike Vana Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Homemade S gauge Mallet picture
Group: S-Trains Message: 20070 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Group: S-Trains Message: 20071 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Big Steam
Group: S-Trains Message: 20072 From: Don Thompson Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Re: Why a 2-8-0
Group: S-Trains Message: 20073 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Re: Why a 2-8-0
Group: S-Trains Message: 20074 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Group: S-Trains Message: 20075 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Group: S-Trains Message: 20076 From: jfred436 Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: More photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 20077 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 20078 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20079 From: David Dewey Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Regarding the New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 20080 From: Steve Blancard Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: New S loco, a 2-6-0 Mogul
Group: S-Trains Message: 20081 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Re: Regarding the New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 20082 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: new locos
Group: S-Trains Message: 20083 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Re: Why a 2-8-0
Group: S-Trains Message: 20084 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Re new locos
Group: S-Trains Message: 20085 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Trains for sell
Group: S-Trains Message: 20086 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Re: ...Now. I want my damned UP wide vision caboose.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20087 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 6/24/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Group: S-Trains Message: 20088 From: pieter_roos Date: 6/24/2002
Subject: Re: Why a 2-8-0
Group: S-Trains Message: 20089 From: roy inman Date: 6/24/2002
Subject: Consumer gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 20090 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 6/24/2002
Subject: Re: Why a 2-8-0
Group: S-Trains Message: 20091 From: David Dewey Date: 6/24/2002
Subject: Re: Why a 2-8-0
Group: S-Trains Message: 20092 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/24/2002
Subject: Re: Why a 2-8-0
Group: S-Trains Message: 20093 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 6/24/2002
Subject: Re: Why a 2-8-0 (WPs)
Group: S-Trains Message: 20094 From: Don Thompson Date: 6/24/2002
Subject: Re: Sears House
Group: S-Trains Message: 20095 From: Paul Yorke Date: 6/24/2002
Subject: Interactive Website
Group: S-Trains Message: 20096 From: Paul Yorke Date: 6/24/2002
Subject: Cleveland NASG Convention -Pizza Night?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20097 From: aglorince Date: 6/24/2002
Subject: magazine backissue over stock sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 20098 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 6/24/2002
Subject: TCA Convention
Group: S-Trains Message: 20099 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 6/25/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20100 From: Paul Yorke Date: 6/25/2002
Subject: Yahoo Facts
Group: S-Trains Message: 20101 From: Steve Blancard Date: 6/25/2002
Subject: Custom Franklin loco project
Group: S-Trains Message: 20102 From: john isn't eddie anymore Date: 6/26/2002
Subject: Fwd: Unable to deliver your message
Group: S-Trains Message: 20103 From: Gerry Evans Date: 6/26/2002
Subject: NASCAR
Group: S-Trains Message: 20104 From: David A. Highfield Date: 6/26/2002
Subject: Re: NASCAR
Group: S-Trains Message: 20105 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/26/2002
Subject: WP F3s
Group: S-Trains Message: 20106 From: joshseltzer Date: 6/26/2002
Subject: NASG Convention 2002 NOTICE: Red tour expanded.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20107 From: joshseltzer Date: 6/26/2002
Subject: NASG 2002 Convention car notice: Prototype number cars sold out!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20108 From: s6g2p Date: 6/26/2002
Subject: STEAM ENGINES WHY NOT LIKE THEY HAVE IN O GAUGE
Group: S-Trains Message: 20109 From: john isn't eddie anymore Date: 6/26/2002
Subject: Re: STEAM ENGINES WHY NOT LIKE THEY HAVE IN O GAUGE
Group: S-Trains Message: 20110 From: Bill Lane Date: 6/26/2002
Subject: Pennsy S Models X-29 update
Group: S-Trains Message: 20111 From: Don Thompson Date: 6/26/2002
Subject: Re: STEAM ENGINES WHY NOT LIKE THEY HAVE IN O GAUGE
Group: S-Trains Message: 20112 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 6/26/2002
Subject: S-VIDEO PROJECT
Group: S-Trains Message: 20113 From: jfred436 Date: 6/26/2002
Subject: 4 x 8 layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 20114 From: Clifford Manning Date: 6/27/2002
Subject: DCS vs TMCC
Group: S-Trains Message: 20115 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/27/2002
Subject: Re: STEAM ENGINES WHY NOT LIKE THEY HAVE IN O GAUGE
Group: S-Trains Message: 20116 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 6/27/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Rich Yoder's Trial Balloon
Group: S-Trains Message: 20117 From: Jerry Riechert Date: 6/27/2002
Subject: Re: 4 x 8 layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 20118 From: IronHorse Date: 6/27/2002
Subject: USA RR MAP, state maps
Group: S-Trains Message: 20119 From: frilen2 Date: 6/27/2002
Subject: Flyer Display layout?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20120 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 6/27/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Marketing Ineptitude
Group: S-Trains Message: 20121 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/28/2002
Subject: Re: STEAM ENGINES WHY NOT LIKE THEY HAVE IN O GAUGE
Group: S-Trains Message: 20122 From: Don Thompson Date: 6/28/2002
Subject: Re: Marketing Ineptitude
Group: S-Trains Message: 20123 From: Mark Preman Date: 6/28/2002
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 20124 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/28/2002
Subject: Sound retrofits for F-3s
Group: S-Trains Message: 20125 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/28/2002
Subject: Re: New Mobley Library Service
Group: S-Trains Message: 20126 From: s6g2p Date: 6/28/2002
Subject: BIG STEAMS LIKE O GAUGE
Group: S-Trains Message: 20127 From: Michael Greene Date: 6/28/2002
Subject: Model Railroader's Readers' Choice Awards
Group: S-Trains Message: 20128 From: Robert Wight Date: 6/28/2002
Subject: My web site. For whom it may concern
Group: S-Trains Message: 20129 From: Don Thompson Date: 6/28/2002
Subject: Re: Sound retrofits for F-3s
Group: S-Trains Message: 20130 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/28/2002
Subject: Re: My web site. For whom it may concern
Group: S-Trains Message: 20131 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 6/28/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20132 From: Clifford Manning Date: 6/29/2002
Subject: 719 & 919
Group: S-Trains Message: 20133 From: Paul Yorke Date: 6/29/2002
Subject: test message - please ignore
Group: S-Trains Message: 20134 From: John Foley Date: 6/29/2002
Subject: Fwd: Re: Super Ad deal again
Group: S-Trains Message: 20135 From: Clifford Manning Date: 6/29/2002
Subject: www.ssstrains.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20136 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/29/2002
Subject: #20315 Keystone Rocket Set
Group: S-Trains Message: 20137 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/29/2002
Subject: 21004 set & more
Group: S-Trains Message: 20138 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/29/2002
Subject: Silver Rocket Or Royal Blue Tender Chasis
Group: S-Trains Message: 20139 From: Mike Vana Date: 6/29/2002
Subject: 719 and 919 controls
Group: S-Trains Message: 20140 From: David Dewey Date: 6/29/2002
Subject: Re: 719 and 919 controls
Group: S-Trains Message: 20141 From: nasglibrary Date: 6/29/2002
Subject: Mobley Library's MR 1:64 plan list
Group: S-Trains Message: 20142 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 6/30/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20143 From: crustyfour Date: 7/1/2002
Subject: Custom Franklin progress
Group: S-Trains Message: 20144 From: Clifford Manning Date: 7/1/2002
Subject: track trips
Group: S-Trains Message: 20145 From: splitdorf@1bigred.com Date: 7/1/2002
Subject: Franky photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 20146 From: rodgers_carl Date: 7/1/2002
Subject: ssstrains
Group: S-Trains Message: 20147 From: trzp1800 Date: 7/1/2002
Subject: Re: track trips
Group: S-Trains Message: 20148 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 7/1/2002
Subject: worm again
Group: S-Trains Message: 20149 From: bassflyer Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: Re: worm again
Group: S-Trains Message: 20150 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: AF passenger cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 20151 From: Frederick Kopetz Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: Re: Worm Again.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 20152 From: d.garber Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: track trips
Group: S-Trains Message: 20153 From: royhoffman Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: Open House
Group: S-Trains Message: 20154 From: Doug Peck Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: Re: track trips
Group: S-Trains Message: 20155 From: Tim Brown Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: #697 Track Trips
Group: S-Trains Message: 20156 From: hcopter52 Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: Layout elevation
Group: S-Trains Message: 20157 From: Don Thompson Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: Re: Layout elevation
Group: S-Trains Message: 20158 From: Crpntr12449@aol.com Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1503 Message 5
Group: S-Trains Message: 20159 From: David Dewey Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: Re: Layout elevation
Group: S-Trains Message: 20160 From: bilfrazier Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: 30B part
Group: S-Trains Message: 20161 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: SSSTRAINS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20162 From: Roger Petrella Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: Re: Layout elevation
Group: S-Trains Message: 20163 From: David Dewey Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: Re: Layout elevation
Group: S-Trains Message: 20164 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 7/3/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Marketing Ineptitude
Group: S-Trains Message: 20165 From: Don Thompson Date: 7/3/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Marketing Ineptitude
Group: S-Trains Message: 20166 From: MrDryBones Date: 7/3/2002
Subject: photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 20167 From: IronHorse Date: 7/3/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Marketing Ineptitude
Group: S-Trains Message: 20168 From: IronHorse Date: 7/3/2002
Subject: Marketing Ineptitude, stupid subject lines
Group: S-Trains Message: 20169 From: David Dewey Date: 7/3/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Marketing Ineptitude
Group: S-Trains Message: 20170 From: bassflyer Date: 7/3/2002
Subject: Re: photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 20171 From: Tim Brown Date: 7/3/2002
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] #697 Track Trips
Group: S-Trains Message: 20172 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 7/3/2002
Subject: Disney Train Items
Group: S-Trains Message: 20173 From: bassflyer Date: 7/3/2002
Subject: Fwd: Re: NASG DISPATCH missing pages...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20174 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 7/4/2002
Subject: 70 Ton
Group: S-Trains Message: 20176 From: jahoozdumm Date: 7/4/2002
Subject: Re: photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 20177 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 7/4/2002
Subject: stand/narrow gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 20178 From: HOGHEADHAT@AOL.COM Date: 7/4/2002
Subject: Marketing
Group: S-Trains Message: 20179 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 7/4/2002
Subject: Kris Car Lot Up For Sale...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20180 From: bassflyer Date: 7/4/2002
Subject: Fwd: Re: NASG Dispatch June 2002
Group: S-Trains Message: 20181 From: wdlane Date: 7/4/2002
Subject: Pennsy S Models Update
Group: S-Trains Message: 20182 From: MrDryBones Date: 7/5/2002
Subject: new track, long pins
Group: S-Trains Message: 20183 From: David Dewey Date: 7/5/2002
Subject: Re: new track, long pins
Group: S-Trains Message: 20184 From: af21115 Date: 7/5/2002
Subject: As seen on E-Bay
Group: S-Trains Message: 20185 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/5/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20186 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 7/6/2002
Subject: Re: As seen on E-Bay
Group: S-Trains Message: 20187 From: Clifford Manning Date: 7/6/2002
Subject: Triple S Trains????
Group: S-Trains Message: 20188 From: Doug Peck Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: Re: ssstrains
Group: S-Trains Message: 20189 From: Paul Yorke Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: New List Proposal - Please Read
Group: S-Trains Message: 20190 From: Paul Yorke Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: New Lists:Answers to feedback
Group: S-Trains Message: 20191 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20192 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: Re: As seen on E-Bay
Group: S-Trains Message: 20193 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: Re: As seen on E-Bay
Group: S-Trains Message: 20194 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: as seen on ebay
Group: S-Trains Message: 20195 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: as seen on Ebay
Group: S-Trains Message: 20196 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: as seen on oi vey
Group: S-Trains Message: 20197 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: AS SEEN
Group: S-Trains Message: 20198 From: aglorince Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: greenberg train show , pittsburgh
Group: S-Trains Message: 20199 From: robert allen conner Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: PA SHOWS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20200 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: GATS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20201 From: roy inman Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] PA SHOWS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20202 From: Al Reibel Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: Re: PA SHOWS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20203 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: S=Dead
Group: S-Trains Message: 20204 From: David Dewey Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: Re: PA SHOWS & Niagara Hobbies--Let's swamp 'em!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20205 From: Don Thompson Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: S is Dead?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20206 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1509
Group: S-Trains Message: 20207 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: DIDGEST 1509
Group: S-Trains Message: 20208 From: Doug Peck Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: Convention
Group: S-Trains Message: 20209 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Big steam
Group: S-Trains Message: 20210 From: robert allen conner Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1509
Group: S-Trains Message: 20211 From: Mark Preman Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 20212 From: seahawkdan@aol.com Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: track layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 20213 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: New S Scale track cleaning car -- MNP
Group: S-Trains Message: 20214 From: Robert Jackson Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Big steam
Group: S-Trains Message: 20215 From: Tom Doherty Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: New products
Group: S-Trains Message: 20216 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: SSS TRAINS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20217 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: SSS TRAINS :PS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20218 From: John Foley Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: S Kit #78
Group: S-Trains Message: 20219 From: bob werre Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: S Kit #78
Group: S-Trains Message: 20220 From: Don Abrams Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: SSStrains link
Group: S-Trains Message: 20221 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: SSStrains link
Group: S-Trains Message: 20222 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: SSStrains link
Group: S-Trains Message: 20223 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: track layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 20224 From: IronHorse Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: S is Dead?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20225 From: Paul Yorke Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: track layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 20226 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Woodland Scenics Inclines
Group: S-Trains Message: 20227 From: Don Thompson Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Woodland Scenics Inclines
Group: S-Trains Message: 20228 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: track layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 20229 From: pieter_roos Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: S is Dead?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20230 From: robert allen conner Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: Woodland Scenics Inclines
Group: S-Trains Message: 20231 From: nhterpsfan Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: New 'win an S car' contest running on RSSVP website
Group: S-Trains Message: 20232 From: roy inman Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Dead S
Group: S-Trains Message: 20233 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: trolleys are running! and VW news
Group: S-Trains Message: 20234 From: roy inman Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: 1/64th cars-RC!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20235 From: David Dewey Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Oh boy, Herk, TRAIN TOOLS!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20236 From: David Dewey Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: track layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 20237 From: splitdorf@1bigred.com Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Re: Oh boy, Herk, TRAIN TOOLS!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20238 From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Thanks!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20239 From: Jay Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Re: Layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 20240 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Re: S is Dead
Group: S-Trains Message: 20241 From: Doug Peck Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Re: AF track plans
Group: S-Trains Message: 20242 From: David Dewey Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Sad news, Ward Kimball passed away.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20243 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Re: AM Smoothside Passenger Cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 20244 From: David Dewey Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Re: Oh boy, Herk, TRAIN TOOLS!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20245 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Re: S is Dead?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20246 From: TCS Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: New Decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S and O scale
Group: S-Trains Message: 20247 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Chicago
Group: S-Trains Message: 20248 From: IronHorse Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Re: Dead S
Group: S-Trains Message: 20249 From: IronHorse Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Dead S
Group: S-Trains Message: 20250 From: IronHorse Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: trolleys are running ???
Group: S-Trains Message: 20251 From: IronHorse Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: S is Dead
Group: S-Trains Message: 20252 From: Gary Chidester Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: All aboard the California Zephyr!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20253 From: splitdorf@1bigred.com Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Re: All aboard the California Zephyr!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20254 From: Knight, Gene Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: more trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 20255 From: Clifford Manning Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: thortrains.net
Group: S-Trains Message: 20256 From: Don Thompson Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Re: All aboard the California Zephyr!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20257 From: Don Thompson Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Re: AM Smoothside Passenger Cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 20258 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Chicago & Rochelle Illinois
Group: S-Trains Message: 20259 From: Bill Lane Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 20260 From: Steve Blancard Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Custom Franklin-stein project - it lives!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20261 From: thortrains Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: New S Gauge Layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 20262 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 7/10/2002
Subject: Re: S IS NOT DEAD
Group: S-Trains Message: 20263 From: IronHorse Date: 7/10/2002
Subject: NASG made a bad decision
Group: S-Trains Message: 20264 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/10/2002
Subject: Re: NASG made a bad decision
Group: S-Trains Message: 20265 From: trzp1800 Date: 7/10/2002
Subject: ACSG layout at Charlotte, NC Metrolina Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 20266 From: Tom Date: 7/10/2002
Subject: Silliness
Group: S-Trains Message: 20267 From: wintermutedm Date: 7/10/2002
Subject: Re: Chicago
Group: S-Trains Message: 20269 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 7/10/2002
Subject: Re: S IS NOT DEAD
Group: S-Trains Message: 20270 From: David Dewey Date: 7/10/2002
Subject: Re: Silliness
Group: S-Trains Message: 20271 From: Steve Blancard Date: 7/10/2002
Subject: Custom Franky test file
Group: S-Trains Message: 20272 From: Gale Hall Date: 7/10/2002
Subject: NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 20273 From: IronHorse Date: 7/10/2002
Subject: Re: NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 20274 From: IronHorse Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Re: NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 20275 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Be AWARE
Group: S-Trains Message: 20276 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Re: NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 20277 From: IronHorse Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: NASG & more
Group: S-Trains Message: 20278 From: Bill Lane Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: The REAL real Pennsy S Models Update
Group: S-Trains Message: 20279 From: Don Thompson Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Re: NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 20280 From: joshseltzer Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Re: NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 20281 From: IronHorse Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Re: NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 20282 From: nasglibrary Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Re: Roger Hinds and Mike S's comments about NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 20283 From: IronHorse Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 20284 From: IronHorse Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Comments on NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 20285 From: IronHorse Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Ack !!! I'm sorry, I'm sorry
Group: S-Trains Message: 20286 From: joshseltzer Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Re: NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 20287 From: IronHorse Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Re: NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 20288 From: pieter_roos Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Re: NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 20289 From: rkuepper Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Marx Crossing Bell
Group: S-Trains Message: 20290 From: Rick Evans Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Walthers Catalog....
Group: S-Trains Message: 20291 From: The Reis's Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Re: trolleys are running! and VW news
Group: S-Trains Message: 20292 From: Mike Vana Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Joining NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 20293 From: David Dewey Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: NASG and NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 20294 From: Don Thompson Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Re: NASG and NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 20295 From: IronHorse Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: NASG AWwww Mannnn!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20296 From: IronHorse Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Old membership list
Group: S-Trains Message: 20297 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: NASG etc.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20298 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Re: NASG etc.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20299 From: IronHorse Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Why On a Public forum?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20300 From: Gary Chidester Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Please help one of the ignorant.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20301 From: joshseltzer Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Re: NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 20302 From: IronHorse Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Re: NASG etc.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20303 From: IronHorse Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Thank you.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20304 From: splitdorf@1bigred.com Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Re: Why On a Public forum?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20305 From: David Dewey Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Please help one of the ignorant.--and the rest of us!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20306 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: AMERICAN MODELS TRAIN FOR SALE "CORP"
Group: S-Trains Message: 20307 From: royhoffman Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Re: NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 20308 From: Roger Petrella Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Culverts
Group: S-Trains Message: 20309 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Culverts
Group: S-Trains Message: 20310 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Re: Culverts
Group: S-Trains Message: 20311 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Re: Culverts
Group: S-Trains Message: 20312 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20313 From: David Dewey Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Re: Culverts
Group: S-Trains Message: 20314 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Re: Culverts
Group: S-Trains Message: 20315 From: Bill Lane Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: The NASG - Love it or leave it!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20316 From: bassflyer Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: NASG Members--S-Train members?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20317 From: Don Thompson Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Re: F-7 blatant promotion
Group: S-Trains Message: 20318 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: [Fwd: Your subscription to S-Trains has been changed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20319 From: Lawrence Jackman Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: Re: Homemade S gauge Mallet picture
Group: S-Trains Message: 20320 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: Re: Culverts
Group: S-Trains Message: 20321 From: thecrpntr2002 Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: old train acc.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20322 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: New F-7's
Group: S-Trains Message: 20323 From: iradiate1967 Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: New to S, need some scale models..
Group: S-Trains Message: 20324 From: David Dewey Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: Re: old train acc.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20325 From: Robert E. Yablonski Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: Track Insulators
Group: S-Trains Message: 20326 From: louis glumac Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: help
Group: S-Trains Message: 20327 From: Chuck Smith Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: Re: Track Insulators
Group: S-Trains Message: 20328 From: af21115 Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: Re: Please help one of the ignorant.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20329 From: notcoldenough Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: Re: crossing signal flasher circuit.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20330 From: bassflyer Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: Re: the "Hard to find 913"....
Group: S-Trains Message: 20331 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: Re: the "Hard to find 913"....
Group: S-Trains Message: 20332 From: Don Abrams Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: NASG Members--S-Train members?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20333 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: Re: NASG Members--S-Train members?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20334 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 20335 From: robert allen conner Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 20336 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 20337 From: Alex Sibbald Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: new poll for s-trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 20338 From: thortrains Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: More Track Plans Posted
Group: S-Trains Message: 20339 From: trainnut2us Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: On30 conversion
Group: S-Trains Message: 20340 From: Paul Yorke Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: Logging into Yahoo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20341 From: Steve Blancard Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: Re: On30 conversion
Group: S-Trains Message: 20342 From: srgriggs Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: Re: Track Insulators
Group: S-Trains Message: 20343 From: Steve Blancard Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: Rebuilding a SIT unit
Group: S-Trains Message: 20344 From: Robert Wight Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: Re: More Track Plans Posted
Group: S-Trains Message: 20345 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20346 From: bassflyer Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: Re: On30 conversion
Group: S-Trains Message: 20347 From: aglorince Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: Re: Track Insulators
Group: S-Trains Message: 20348 From: Paul Yorke Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: reading notes on the web
Group: S-Trains Message: 20349 From: Vince Brunette Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: Trade wanted SHS SW9 shell EL for undec
Group: S-Trains Message: 20350 From: Dayna Warner Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: PACKAGING ERROR
Group: S-Trains Message: 20351 From: IronHorse Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Flying Yankee
Group: S-Trains Message: 20352 From: Doug Peck Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Re: Rebuilding SIT units
Group: S-Trains Message: 20353 From: crustyfour Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Re: reading notes on the web
Group: S-Trains Message: 20354 From: David Dewey Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Re: Rebuilding a SIT unit
Group: S-Trains Message: 20355 From: David Dewey Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Big L AF 2002, vol 2 cat out.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20356 From: Clifford Manning Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: diagram and parts list
Group: S-Trains Message: 20357 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Re: Big L AF 2002, vol 2 cat out.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20358 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: NASG Dispatch
Group: S-Trains Message: 20359 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Steeplecabs in the Dispatch
Group: S-Trains Message: 20360 From: frilen2 Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Big L AF 2002, vol 2 cat out.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20361 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1518
Group: S-Trains Message: 20362 From: tigge55@bellsouth.net Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: TheMilwaukeeChannel.com - Freight Train Derails In Fiery Crash
Group: S-Trains Message: 20363 From: John Harvey Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: cleaning plastic whells
Group: S-Trains Message: 20364 From: Ted Walton Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: HO Model rr museum
Group: S-Trains Message: 20365 From: afstrains@aol.com Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1519
Group: S-Trains Message: 20366 From: dwightlehnhoff Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Cleaning Plastic Wheels
Group: S-Trains Message: 20367 From: bassflyer Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning Plastic Wheels
Group: S-Trains Message: 20368 From: Roger Delthony Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Cleaning Plastic Wheels
Group: S-Trains Message: 20369 From: thortrains Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Shelf Layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 20370 From: William Porter Date: 7/16/2002
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 20371 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 7/16/2002
Subject: Re: NASG Dispatch
Group: S-Trains Message: 20372 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 7/16/2002
Subject: Re: NASG Dispatch
Group: S-Trains Message: 20373 From: aglorince Date: 7/16/2002
Subject: Re: HO Model rr museum
Group: S-Trains Message: 20374 From: rodgers_carl Date: 7/16/2002
Subject: What happened to TRAINS?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20375 From: af21115 Date: 7/16/2002
Subject: Another one for the watch list...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20376 From: The Reis's Date: 7/16/2002
Subject: FW: [showcaseline] Hello , new list member: Also want to find Undec
Group: S-Trains Message: 20377 From: iradiate1967 Date: 7/16/2002
Subject: Well, let's clarify that post regarding F3 diesels... :)
Group: S-Trains Message: 20378 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 7/16/2002
Subject: Piston rod/main rod from a 21168
Group: S-Trains Message: 20380 From: jahoozdumm Date: 7/16/2002
Subject: Re: Big L AF 2002, vol 2 cat out
Group: S-Trains Message: 20381 From: af21115 Date: 7/17/2002
Subject: Re: Another one for the watch list...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20382 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 7/17/2002
Subject: Bathtub gon
Group: S-Trains Message: 20383 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 7/17/2002
Subject: Re: Chicago
Group: S-Trains Message: 20384 From: iradiate1967 Date: 7/17/2002
Subject: I found undec. SHS F3's, anyone want an undec B?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20385 From: bassflyer Date: 7/17/2002
Subject: Re: Another one for the watch list...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20386 From: Gerry Evans Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Bathtub gon
Group: S-Trains Message: 20387 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: NASG Modern Building Kit
Group: S-Trains Message: 20388 From: Lee Johnson Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] NASG Modern Building Kit
Group: S-Trains Message: 20389 From: Raul Catta Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: Painting Celotex
Group: S-Trains Message: 20390 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: Re: Painting Celotex
Group: S-Trains Message: 20391 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: Re: Painting Celotex/SOUND DEADING
Group: S-Trains Message: 20392 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: Fwd: AMERICAM MODELS GP9
Group: S-Trains Message: 20393 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: Fwd: SAWMILL FOR SALE
Group: S-Trains Message: 20394 From: Paul Yorke Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: Todays NMRA Event Photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 20395 From: John Harvey Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: Cleaning Plastic Wheels
Group: S-Trains Message: 20396 From: pieter_roos Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: Re: NASG Modern Building Kit
Group: S-Trains Message: 20397 From: iradiate1967 Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: Downs tank car models still being made???? ( MMT )
Group: S-Trains Message: 20398 From: jahoozdumm Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: Re: Todays NMRA Event Photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 20399 From: John Harvey Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: rail joiners for AF size rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 20400 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 7/19/2002
Subject: Re: Todays NMRA Event Photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 20401 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 7/19/2002
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] Downs tank car models still being made???? ( MMT )
Group: S-Trains Message: 20402 From: Chuck Smith Date: 7/19/2002
Subject: Re: rail joiners for AF size rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 20403 From: IronHorse Date: 7/19/2002
Subject: Train museum warning
Group: S-Trains Message: 20404 From: IronHorse Date: 7/19/2002
Subject: Cleaning Plastic
Group: S-Trains Message: 20405 From: Paul Yorke Date: 7/19/2002
Subject: Re: Todays NMRA Event Photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 20406 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/19/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20407 From: Steve Blancard Date: 7/19/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning Plastic
Group: S-Trains Message: 20408 From: nasglibrary Date: 7/19/2002
Subject: Mobley Library Vacation
Group: S-Trains Message: 20409 From: TCS Date: 7/19/2002
Subject: New Decals from Oddballs Decal - N, HO, S and O scales
Group: S-Trains Message: 20410 From: notcoldenough Date: 7/20/2002
Subject: Re: Painting Celotex
Group: S-Trains Message: 20411 From: Michael Christensen Date: 7/20/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning Plastic
Group: S-Trains Message: 20412 From: Doug Peck Date: 7/20/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning plastic
Group: S-Trains Message: 20413 From: IronHorse Date: 7/20/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning Plastic
Group: S-Trains Message: 20414 From: Paul Yorke Date: 7/20/2002
Subject: NMRA - Day 2 (last day for me)
Group: S-Trains Message: 20415 From: David Dewey Date: 7/20/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning Plastic
Group: S-Trains Message: 20416 From: nasglibrary Date: 7/20/2002
Subject: Mobley Library Vacation
Group: S-Trains Message: 20417 From: IronHorse Date: 7/21/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning Plastic
Group: S-Trains Message: 20418 From: IronHorse Date: 7/21/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning plastic
Group: S-Trains Message: 20419 From: plotnick Date: 7/21/2002
Subject: Fall S-fest
Group: S-Trains Message: 20420 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/21/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20421 From: Roger Walton Date: 7/21/2002
Subject: poll
Group: S-Trains Message: 20422 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 7/21/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning plastic
Group: S-Trains Message: 20423 From: Robert E. Yablonski Date: 7/21/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1524
Group: S-Trains Message: 20424 From: david.avedesian@clarkconstruction.com Date: 7/21/2002
Subject: David Avedesian/Clark is out of the office.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20425 From: David Dewey Date: 7/21/2002
Subject: Re: David Avedesian/Clark is out of the office.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20426 From: David Dewey Date: 7/22/2002
Subject: Cleaning Plastic
Group: S-Trains Message: 20427 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 7/22/2002
Subject: Dust
Group: S-Trains Message: 20428 From: Neimanis,V. [NCR] Date: 7/22/2002
Subject: Re: Poll
Group: S-Trains Message: 20429 From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca Date: 7/22/2002
Subject: service interruption
Group: S-Trains Message: 20430 From: rodgers_carl Date: 7/22/2002
Subject: Plastic Cleaning
Group: S-Trains Message: 20431 From: yazfacts Date: 7/22/2002
Subject: North Carloina way...........
Group: S-Trains Message: 20432 From: Al Galli Date: 7/22/2002
Subject: HO sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20433 From: Steve Blancard Date: 7/22/2002
Subject: American Flyer compatable couplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 20434 From: IronHorse Date: 7/22/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning Plastic
Group: S-Trains Message: 20435 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 7/22/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer compatable couplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 20436 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 7/23/2002
Subject: North Carolina
Group: S-Trains Message: 20437 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 7/23/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning Plastic
Group: S-Trains Message: 20438 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 7/23/2002
Subject: NASG convention / Video
Group: S-Trains Message: 20439 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 7/23/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1526
Group: S-Trains Message: 20440 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/23/2002
Subject: SAWMILL
Group: S-Trains Message: 20441 From: afjeff_56 Date: 7/23/2002
Subject: S gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 20442 From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade Date: 7/23/2002
Subject: Russ Mobley's Collection for Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 20443 From: fjg1870 Date: 7/23/2002
Subject: Re: S gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 20444 From: frilen2 Date: 7/23/2002
Subject: Re: "S" Gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 20445 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 7/24/2002
Subject: Flyer for sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 20446 From: John Foley Date: 7/24/2002
Subject: Will Holt
Group: S-Trains Message: 20447 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 7/25/2002
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] SHS Track
Group: S-Trains Message: 20448 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 7/25/2002
Subject: Yahoo Groups
Group: S-Trains Message: 20449 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 7/25/2002
Subject: Re: Will Holt
Group: S-Trains Message: 20450 From: TED R LARSON Date: 7/25/2002
Subject: cross bucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 20451 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 7/25/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer- S Gauge/Scale Collection For Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 20452 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/25/2002
Subject: AFSGSLA ???
Group: S-Trains Message: 20453 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/25/2002
Subject: TANK CAR
Group: S-Trains Message: 20454 From: milayman@aol.com Date: 7/25/2002
Subject: Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 20455 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/25/2002
Subject: Re: AFSGSLA ???
Group: S-Trains Message: 20456 From: amerflyr@aol.com Date: 7/26/2002
Subject: 752 Coal Loader
Group: S-Trains Message: 20457 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 7/26/2002
Subject: Re: North Carolina way...........
Group: S-Trains Message: 20458 From: David Dewey Date: 7/26/2002
Subject: Some pics added to S-trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 20459 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/26/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20460 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 7/26/2002
Subject: Transformer circuit breaker
Group: S-Trains Message: 20461 From: Al Reibel Date: 7/27/2002
Subject: Floodlight car help!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20462 From: TED R LARSON Date: 7/27/2002
Subject: HELP
Group: S-Trains Message: 20463 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 7/27/2002
Subject: AFSGSLA
Group: S-Trains Message: 20464 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/27/2002
Subject: Re: AFSGSLA
Group: S-Trains Message: 20465 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 7/27/2002
Subject: floodlight car help
Group: S-Trains Message: 20466 From: David Dewey Date: 7/27/2002
Subject: HELP--not trains, but computer (PC)
Group: S-Trains Message: 20467 From: Victor Bereskin Date: 7/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1531
Group: S-Trains Message: 20468 From: Peter Ervin Date: 7/27/2002
Subject: Viruses
Group: S-Trains Message: 20469 From: Chuck Smith Date: 7/27/2002
Subject: Re: Viruses
Group: S-Trains Message: 20470 From: David Dewey Date: 7/27/2002
Subject: Thanks for the computer help!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20471 From: Jerry Riechert Date: 7/28/2002
Subject: Trainz and Flyer?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20472 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/28/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20473 From: Tom Rolfsmeyer Date: 7/28/2002
Subject: Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20474 From: The Reis's Date: 7/28/2002
Subject: Blatant Sale of underpriced S helper cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 20475 From: The Reis's Date: 7/28/2002
Subject: SECOND TRY : Blatant Sale of underpriced S helper cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 20476 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 7/29/2002
Subject: Found: Gilbert Non-Train Item - Erector set - Help?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20477 From: royhoffman Date: 7/29/2002
Subject: PA layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 20478 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 7/29/2002
Subject: Test the waters
Group: S-Trains Message: 20479 From: TED R LARSON Date: 7/29/2002
Subject: Convention
Group: S-Trains Message: 20480 From: IronHorse Date: 7/30/2002
Subject: NH train stations.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20481 From: knockbill Date: 7/30/2002
Subject: floodlighty car
Group: S-Trains Message: 20482 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 7/30/2002
Subject: NH train stations
Group: S-Trains Message: 20483 From: iradiate1967 Date: 7/30/2002
Subject: SHS Southern Pacific F3 shell #302, trade for undec.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20484 From: af21115 Date: 7/30/2002
Subject: Auction Fraud OT
Group: S-Trains Message: 20485 From: Pierre Paradis Date: 7/30/2002
Subject: AF NEW HAVEN 494-495 need information.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 20486 From: TCS Date: 7/30/2002
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scales
Group: S-Trains Message: 20487 From: Rhett T. George Date: 7/31/2002
Subject: North Conway station
Group: S-Trains Message: 20488 From: TCS Date: 7/31/2002
Subject: Re: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scales
Group: S-Trains Message: 20489 From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) Date: 7/31/2002
Subject: Finally posted, how to build closed frog switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 20490 From: Raynald Asselin Date: 7/31/2002
Subject: Re: AF NEW HAVEN 494-495 need information.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 20491 From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) Date: 7/31/2002
Subject: Re: Finally posted, how to build closed frog switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 20492 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 7/31/2002
Subject: AF Semaphore Question
Group: S-Trains Message: 20493 From: Chuck Smith Date: 7/31/2002
Subject: Re: AF Semaphore Question
Group: S-Trains Message: 20494 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 8/1/2002
Subject: AF Semaphore question
Group: S-Trains Message: 20495 From: dwightlehnhoff Date: 8/1/2002
Subject: Semaphore
Group: S-Trains Message: 20496 From: sjkafjrae276 Date: 8/1/2002
Subject: check this site out!…
Group: S-Trains Message: 20497 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 8/1/2002
Subject: Re: check this site out! - PORN SITE - DON"T GO THERE!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20498 From: Dennis Back Date: 8/1/2002
Subject: Re: check this site out! - PORN SITE - DON"T GO THERE!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20499 From: theheadliner Date: 8/1/2002
Subject: Re: Auction Fraud OT
Group: S-Trains Message: 20500 From: theheadliner Date: 8/1/2002
Subject: Re: Viruses
Group: S-Trains Message: 20501 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/2/2002
Subject: Re: check this site out! - PORN SITE - DON"T GO THERE!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20502 From: af21115 Date: 8/2/2002
Subject: Re: Auction Fraud OT
Group: S-Trains Message: 20503 From: David Dewey Date: 8/2/2002
Subject: Yahoo, anit-spamming filters??? An oxymoron!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20504 From: Clay Date: 8/2/2002
Subject: TCA 2006 S car ideas
Group: S-Trains Message: 20505 From: Mark Preman Date: 8/2/2002
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 20506 From: pieter_roos Date: 8/2/2002
Subject: Re: check this site out! - PORN SITE - DON"T GO THERE!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20507 From: trllentes776 Date: 8/2/2002
Subject: just found new website…
Group: S-Trains Message: 20508 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/2/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20509 From: Dayna Warner Date: 8/2/2002
Subject: looking for decals
Group: S-Trains Message: 20510 From: Tim Brown Date: 8/3/2002
Subject: NASG Convention
Group: S-Trains Message: 20511 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 8/3/2002
Subject: Re: NASG Convention
Group: S-Trains Message: 20512 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 8/3/2002
Subject: Dover, NJ Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 20513 From: Tim Brown Date: 8/3/2002
Subject: Many thanks
Group: S-Trains Message: 20514 From: Mike Vana Date: 8/3/2002
Subject: NH Trainmaster Decals
Group: S-Trains Message: 20515 From: Alex Sibbald Date: 8/3/2002
Subject: rocket launcher
Group: S-Trains Message: 20516 From: fjg1870 Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: Re: NH Trainmaster Decals
Group: S-Trains Message: 20517 From: notcoldenough Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: Steamer stalling on switch frogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 20518 From: Chuck Smith Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: Re: Steamer stalling on switch frogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 20519 From: Tim Brown Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: Re: Steamer stalling on switch frogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 20520 From: notcoldenough Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: Re: Steamer stalling on switch frogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 20521 From: Pierre Paradis Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: About the 494 & 495 AF new haven....
Group: S-Trains Message: 20522 From: David Dewey Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: Re: Steamer stalling on switch frogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 20523 From: Pierre Paradis Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: 494 & 495 AF new haven news about it need help now...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20525 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20526 From: rodgers_carl Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: Re: AF Semaphore Question
Group: S-Trains Message: 20527 From: Doug Peck Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: Re: 494-495 wiring
Group: S-Trains Message: 20528 From: John Foley Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: American Model Builders
Group: S-Trains Message: 20529 From: afstrains@aol.com Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: Re: Congratulations to Paul York
Group: S-Trains Message: 20530 From: David Dewey Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: Congratulations to Paul York for winning the Bernie Thomas Award!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20531 From: TCS Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S and O scale
Group: S-Trains Message: 20532 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: AF Semaphore Question
Group: S-Trains Message: 20533 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Re: Back and new link
Group: S-Trains Message: 20534 From: Doug Peck Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Re: NASG awards?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20535 From: John Foley Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Fwd: American Model Builders
Group: S-Trains Message: 20536 From: rodgers_carl Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Re: AF Semaphore Question
Group: S-Trains Message: 20537 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: AF Semaphore Question
Group: S-Trains Message: 20538 From: Roger Delthony Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Re: Steamer Stalling on Switch Frogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 20539 From: rkuepper Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Paul Yorke award
Group: S-Trains Message: 20540 From: Tom Pennington Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Re: Paul Yorke award
Group: S-Trains Message: 20541 From: trzp1800 Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Re: AF Semaphore Question
Group: S-Trains Message: 20542 From: gino restivo Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: THANKS , Paul York
Group: S-Trains Message: 20543 From: notcoldenough Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Re: Steamer stalling on switch frogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 20544 From: lawrence Jackman Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Back and new link
Group: S-Trains Message: 20545 From: Paul Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Couple things
Group: S-Trains Message: 20546 From: Roger Delthony Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Re: Steamer Stalling on Switch Frogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 20547 From: mvandiver2@aol.com Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 20548 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Congratulations
Group: S-Trains Message: 20549 From: knockbill Date: 8/6/2002
Subject: Paul's award
Group: S-Trains Message: 20550 From: joshseltzer Date: 8/6/2002
Subject: NASG 2002 Convention: Thanks to all who came
Group: S-Trains Message: 20551 From: Paul Date: 8/6/2002
Subject: convention photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 20552 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 8/7/2002
Subject: Paul's Award
Group: S-Trains Message: 20553 From: Gill W. Lott Date: 8/7/2002
Subject: Re: convention photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 20554 From: Clifford Manning Date: 8/7/2002
Subject: American Flyer wheels
Group: S-Trains Message: 20555 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/7/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer wheels
Group: S-Trains Message: 20556 From: crustyfour Date: 8/8/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer wheels
Group: S-Trains Message: 20557 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/8/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer wheels
Group: S-Trains Message: 20558 From: bassflyer Date: 8/9/2002
Subject: Mr. Yorke's major award....
Group: S-Trains Message: 20559 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/9/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20560 From: louis glumac Date: 8/9/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20561 From: robert allen conner Date: 8/9/2002
Subject: PIKEMASTER CROSSOVER PANEL
Group: S-Trains Message: 20562 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 8/9/2002
Subject: Re: PIKEMASTER CROSSOVER PANEL
Group: S-Trains Message: 20563 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/9/2002
Subject: Steam Engines
Group: S-Trains Message: 20564 From: robert allen conner Date: 8/9/2002
Subject: Re: Steam Engines
Group: S-Trains Message: 20565 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/9/2002
Subject: SENSORS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20566 From: rkuepper Date: 8/10/2002
Subject: NASG Convention Photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 20567 From: Pierre Paradis Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: Need info on AF diesel horn generator....
Group: S-Trains Message: 20568 From: rkuepper Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] NASG Convention Photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 20569 From: David Dewey Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: Re: Need info on AF diesel horn generator....
Group: S-Trains Message: 20570 From: TWesthelle@aol.com Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: AF Collection/PBS Tracks Ahead
Group: S-Trains Message: 20571 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20572 From: Steve Blancard Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: Bachmann old time passenger cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 20573 From: John Foley Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: NASG Literature
Group: S-Trains Message: 20574 From: crustyfour Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: what's wrong with chat?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20575 From: Roger Hinds Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: test
Group: S-Trains Message: 20576 From: chasman340 Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: new member
Group: S-Trains Message: 20577 From: David Dewey Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: Re: what's wrong with chat?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20578 From: David Dewey Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: Re: new member
Group: S-Trains Message: 20579 From: Gale Hall Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: Military Movers
Group: S-Trains Message: 20580 From: chasman340 Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: my dad's trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 20581 From: Gill W. Lott Date: 8/12/2002
Subject: Re: Bachmann old time passenger cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 20582 From: robert allen conner Date: 8/12/2002
Subject: Re: Military Movers
Group: S-Trains Message: 20583 From: John Foley Date: 8/12/2002
Subject: Fwd: parts list
Group: S-Trains Message: 20584 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 8/12/2002
Subject: Re: AF COLLECTION/PBS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20585 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/12/2002
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 20586 From: John Foley Date: 8/12/2002
Subject: Cats
Group: S-Trains Message: 20587 From: Bill Lane Date: 8/12/2002
Subject: Bill's CHEAP car sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 20588 From: VB Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Atlanta Hobby shops carrying S .....?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20589 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Need Lou's Tattoo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20590 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Need Lou's Tattoo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20591 From: Scott Connery Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Train for sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 20592 From: af21115 Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Wonder if this is to scale??
Group: S-Trains Message: 20593 From: David Dewey Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Wonder if this is to scale?? I dunno, anyone dying to find out?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20594 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Re: Wonder if this is to scale??
Group: S-Trains Message: 20595 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: To Scale
Group: S-Trains Message: 20596 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Trains for sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 20597 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Re: Wonder if this is to scale?? I dunno, anyone dying to find out?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20598 From: TWesthelle@aol.com Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Aluminum 600 Series Pass Cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 20599 From: robert allen conner Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Re: Wonder if this is to scale?? I dunno, anyone dying to find out?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20600 From: Pierre Paradis Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: AF horn generator question...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20601 From: Paul Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Cincinnati Museum S Layout Pictures
Group: S-Trains Message: 20602 From: afstrains@aol.com Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: New Haven Train Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 20603 From: TCS Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: An email from one of my customers
Group: S-Trains Message: 20604 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Buried AC Gilbert Treasure?!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20605 From: TCS Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Re: [RM-forum] Re: An email from one of my customers
Group: S-Trains Message: 20606 From: chasman340 Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Repaint or not?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20607 From: chasman340 Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Parts needed
Group: S-Trains Message: 20608 From: trainspeak Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Need an original 372 UP Numberboard
Group: S-Trains Message: 20609 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 8/14/2002
Subject: Re: AF horn generator question...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20610 From: Chuck Smith Date: 8/14/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Everyone respond
Group: S-Trains Message: 20611 From: Roger Hinds Date: 8/14/2002
Subject: Everyone respond
Group: S-Trains Message: 20612 From: rkuepper Date: 8/14/2002
Subject: Re: Everyone respond
Group: S-Trains Message: 20613 From: trainspeak Date: 8/14/2002
Subject: Selling a few Flyer/Plasticville items
Group: S-Trains Message: 20614 From: mrb006@aol.com Date: 8/14/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1544
Group: S-Trains Message: 20615 From: David Dewey Date: 8/14/2002
Subject: Re: Selling a few Flyer/Plasticville items
Group: S-Trains Message: 20616 From: Neil Trump Date: 8/15/2002
Subject: S gauge advertising in the CTT
Group: S-Trains Message: 20617 From: TCS Date: 8/15/2002
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scale
Group: S-Trains Message: 20618 From: Pierre Paradis Date: 8/15/2002
Subject: New haven AF diesel 494 & 495 update...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20619 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 8/15/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 20620 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 8/15/2002
Subject: 2002 AF Christmas Boxcar
Group: S-Trains Message: 20621 From: Al Reibel Date: 8/15/2002
Subject: Hudson help?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20622 From: Al Reibel Date: 8/15/2002
Subject: Re: Hudson help?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20624 From: Al Reibel Date: 8/15/2002
Subject: Re: Hudson Help!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20625 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/15/2002
Subject: Yet another poll
Group: S-Trains Message: 20626 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/15/2002
Subject: Re: Yet another poll
Group: S-Trains Message: 20627 From: Lee Johnson Date: 8/15/2002
Subject: S-West IV
Group: S-Trains Message: 20628 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 8/16/2002
Subject: Re: Yet another poll
Group: S-Trains Message: 20629 From: robert allen conner Date: 8/16/2002
Subject: WAY OFF TOPIC
Group: S-Trains Message: 20630 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 8/16/2002
Subject: polls
Group: S-Trains Message: 20631 From: aolh2oman Date: 8/16/2002
Subject: S-West IV clinics
Group: S-Trains Message: 20632 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/16/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20633 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/16/2002
Subject: Re: WAY OFF TOPIC
Group: S-Trains Message: 20634 From: kc6ktj Date: 8/16/2002
Subject: Caboose, (48712) Happy New Year B/W "0101" Lionel / A.F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20635 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 8/16/2002
Subject: S-West IV
Group: S-Trains Message: 20636 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 8/17/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] NASG's "S Trains Buyer's Guide"
Group: S-Trains Message: 20637 From: milorod@aol.com Date: 8/17/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] NASG's "S Trains Buyer's Guide"
Group: S-Trains Message: 20638 From: Tim Brown Date: 8/17/2002
Subject: Great Scal Model Train Show @ Gettysburg
Group: S-Trains Message: 20639 From: Chuck Smith Date: 8/17/2002
Subject: Scale and hirail.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20640 From: Gerry Evans Date: 8/17/2002
Subject: Convention Door Prize
Group: S-Trains Message: 20641 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/17/2002
Subject: CURVED PANEL
Group: S-Trains Message: 20642 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/17/2002
Subject: CURVED PANEL UPDATE
Group: S-Trains Message: 20643 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/18/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20644 From: Jim Armstrong Date: 8/18/2002
Subject: Curve Landscape Panels
Group: S-Trains Message: 20645 From: Jim Armstrong Date: 8/18/2002
Subject: Re: Curve Landscape Panels
Group: S-Trains Message: 20646 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/18/2002
Subject: Re: Great Scal Model Train Show @ Gettysburg
Group: S-Trains Message: 20647 From: Tim Brown Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: Re: Great Scal Model Train Show @ Gettysburg
Group: S-Trains Message: 20648 From: pushpinss Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: New member
Group: S-Trains Message: 20649 From: Dayna Warner Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: introductions at last
Group: S-Trains Message: 20650 From: David Dewey Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: Re: New member
Group: S-Trains Message: 20651 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: CLASSIC EXAMPLE
Group: S-Trains Message: 20652 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: Re: Cincinnati S Scale Layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 20653 From: yazfacts Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: T.C.A. / Hersey Park.......
Group: S-Trains Message: 20654 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: Re: CJSS Fall-Get-Together
Group: S-Trains Message: 20655 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: "S" Fest cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 20656 From: robert allen conner Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: Re: T.C.A. / Hersey Park.......
Group: S-Trains Message: 20657 From: Bob Lester Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: Re: T.C.A. / Hersey Park.......
Group: S-Trains Message: 20658 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: ATSF #3751
Group: S-Trains Message: 20659 From: robert allen conner Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: Re: T.C.A. / Hersey Park.......
Group: S-Trains Message: 20660 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: Re: T.C.A. / Hershey Park.......
Group: S-Trains Message: 20661 From: Roy E. Plotnick Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: 343 Tender
Group: S-Trains Message: 20662 From: af21115 Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: Re: T.C.A. / Hersey Park.......
Group: S-Trains Message: 20663 From: robert allen conner Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: TCA...INDIGESTION
Group: S-Trains Message: 20664 From: David Dewey Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: Re: TCA...INDIGESTION
Group: S-Trains Message: 20665 From: don652@webtv.net Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: New URL
Group: S-Trains Message: 20666 From: Roy E. Plotnick Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: S-fest update
Group: S-Trains Message: 20667 From: John Harvey Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: Royal Blue Tender
Group: S-Trains Message: 20668 From: William Porter Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: Link Coupler Help
Group: S-Trains Message: 20669 From: C. E. Smith Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: Re: Link Coupler Help
Group: S-Trains Message: 20670 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: link coupler help
Group: S-Trains Message: 20671 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: S-Fest Box
Group: S-Trains Message: 20672 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: Re: T.C.A. / Hersey Park.......
Group: S-Trains Message: 20673 From: rodgers_carl Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: Re: link coupler help
Group: S-Trains Message: 20674 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: Re: link coupler help NO WD40!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20675 From: David Dewey Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: Re: link coupler help
Group: S-Trains Message: 20676 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: Re: link coupler help
Group: S-Trains Message: 20677 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: Re: WAY OFF TOPIC
Group: S-Trains Message: 20678 From: yazfacts Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: A.F. Track.......
Group: S-Trains Message: 20679 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: links and WD-40
Group: S-Trains Message: 20680 From: Robert Wight Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: WD and Link Couplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 20681 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: Re: WD and Link Couplers/ SYRINGES
Group: S-Trains Message: 20682 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: LTI SP 6-4800
Group: S-Trains Message: 20683 From: kc6ktj Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: Message #20682
Group: S-Trains Message: 20684 From: Chuck Smith Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: Re: Message #20682
Group: S-Trains Message: 20685 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: Message #20682
Group: S-Trains Message: 20686 From: Roger Delthony Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: Link Couplers (Not) Uncoupling
Group: S-Trains Message: 20687 From: Robert Wight Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: Re: Link Couplers (Not) Uncoupling
Group: S-Trains Message: 20688 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: Last Call
Group: S-Trains Message: 20689 From: wintermutedm Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: 312- SIT tender tipping on curves... what to do?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20690 From: David Dewey Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Re: 312- SIT tender tipping on curves... what to do?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20691 From: trzp1800 Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: TV Land
Group: S-Trains Message: 20692 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Re: 312- SIT tender tipping on curves... what to do?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20693 From: David Dewey Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Re: 312- SIT tender tipping on curves... what to do?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20694 From: pushpinss Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: activating trip for hay car
Group: S-Trains Message: 20695 From: wintermutedm Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Re: 312- SIT tender tipping on curves... what to
Group: S-Trains Message: 20696 From: Ted Larson Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Vintage Tractors
Group: S-Trains Message: 20697 From: David Dewey Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Re: 312- SIT tender tipping on curves... what to
Group: S-Trains Message: 20698 From: The Reis's Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Blatant Sale of S stuff- final
Group: S-Trains Message: 20699 From: Bob Lester Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: ON30 ? and also Greenberg books
Group: S-Trains Message: 20700 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: AMERICAN MODELS HOPPERS FOR SALE
Group: S-Trains Message: 20701 From: Steve Blancard Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Re: ON30 ? and also Greenberg books
Group: S-Trains Message: 20702 From: mlmarmer Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: New Train Shoppe
Group: S-Trains Message: 20703 From: Tim Brown Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Re: 312- SIT tender tipping on curves... what to do?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20704 From: gino restivo Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Re: New Train Shoppe
Group: S-Trains Message: 20705 From: robert allen conner Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Re: New Train Shoppe
Group: S-Trains Message: 20706 From: David Dewey Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Re: New Train Shoppe
Group: S-Trains Message: 20707 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Hay-jector, Tie-jector, etc. track trip
Group: S-Trains Message: 20708 From: David A. Highfield Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Re: New Train Shoppe
Group: S-Trains Message: 20709 From: Bob Lester Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Re: ON30 ? and also Greenberg books
Group: S-Trains Message: 20710 From: TCS Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Oddballs Decals web page back up an running - New sets added.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20711 From: gino restivo Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: what happened to charlie pullman is
Group: S-Trains Message: 20712 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: Re: TV LAND-TRAINS ON TV
Group: S-Trains Message: 20713 From: mlmarmer Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: Re: New Train Shoppe
Group: S-Trains Message: 20714 From: robert allen conner Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: Re: New Train Shoppe
Group: S-Trains Message: 20715 From: Jay Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: New Haven RR
Group: S-Trains Message: 20716 From: Roy E. Plotnick Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: Re: Subject: Link Couplers (Not) Uncoupling
Group: S-Trains Message: 20717 From: wd511 Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: AF Track
Group: S-Trains Message: 20718 From: Bruce Papky Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: Activating trip for hay car.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20719 From: pushpinss Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: activating trip for hay car
Group: S-Trains Message: 20720 From: Tim Brown Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: Re: New Train Shoppe
Group: S-Trains Message: 20721 From: mlmarmer Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: Re: New Train Shoppe
Group: S-Trains Message: 20722 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20723 From: rj4010d Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: Link couplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 20724 From: Tim Brown Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: Re: New Train Shoppe
Group: S-Trains Message: 20725 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: 312-SIT tender tipping on curves
Group: S-Trains Message: 20726 From: Don Abrams Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: Re: 312- SIT tender tipping on curves... what to do?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20727 From: Roger Hinds Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: My train poll results.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20728 From: mlmarmer Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: Re: New Train Shoppe
Group: S-Trains Message: 20729 From: David Dewey Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: Re: New Train Shoppe
Group: S-Trains Message: 20730 From: mlmarmer Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: Re: New Train Shoppe
Group: S-Trains Message: 20732 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: Starter Set in S Gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 20733 From: Paul Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: New 'Roomy' Chat Room
Group: S-Trains Message: 20734 From: royhoffman Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Set in S Gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 20735 From: TWesthelle@aol.com Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: Smoke Units
Group: S-Trains Message: 20736 From: David Dewey Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20737 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Set in S Gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 20738 From: flyerfreak1986 Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: Train Whistle
Group: S-Trains Message: 20739 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: Poll
Group: S-Trains Message: 20740 From: jahoozdumm Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Set in S Gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 20741 From: David Dewey Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20742 From: yazfacts Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Thanks......
Group: S-Trains Message: 20743 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: CLASSIC TOY TRAINS & NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 20744 From: Bob Lester Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Set in S Gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 20745 From: rodgers_carl Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: MTH accessories
Group: S-Trains Message: 20746 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20747 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: MTH accessories
Group: S-Trains Message: 20748 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Set in S Gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 20749 From: notcoldenough Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: Smoke Units
Group: S-Trains Message: 20750 From: flyerfreak1986 Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: American Flyer Catalogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 20751 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: THANKS DON & RON!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20752 From: royhoffman Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Set in S Gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 20753 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20754 From: David Dewey Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer Catalogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 20755 From: flyerfreak1986 Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Flyer Catalogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 20756 From: The Reis's Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer Catalogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 20757 From: trzp1800 Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Set in S Gauge, Way to go Joe!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20758 From: rodgers_carl Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: MTH accessories
Group: S-Trains Message: 20759 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Mewzeeum
Group: S-Trains Message: 20760 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: THANKS DON & RON!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20761 From: The Reis's Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Flyer Catalogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 20762 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Starter set
Group: S-Trains Message: 20763 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: MTH accessories
Group: S-Trains Message: 20764 From: Chuck Smith Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] MHRy Weekend Report
Group: S-Trains Message: 20765 From: jahoozdumm Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: Starter set
Group: S-Trains Message: 20766 From: royhoffman Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: Starter set
Group: S-Trains Message: 20767 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: LTI AF GPs under TMCC
Group: S-Trains Message: 20768 From: mlmarmer Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer Catalogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 20769 From: David Dewey Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer Catalogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 20770 From: rapidrail1 Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: New Photos on Web Page
Group: S-Trains Message: 20771 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Reply from Nick Ladd
Group: S-Trains Message: 20772 From: David Dewey Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: Reply from Nick Ladd
Group: S-Trains Message: 20773 From: David Dewey Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Marketing question-vintage die-cast cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 20774 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: Reply from Nick Ladd
Group: S-Trains Message: 20775 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Attaching Track
Group: S-Trains Message: 20776 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: Reply from Nick Ladd
Group: S-Trains Message: 20777 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer Catalogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 20778 From: John Foley Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Marketing question-vintage die-cast cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 20779 From: Chuck Smith Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: Reply from Nick Ladd
Group: S-Trains Message: 20780 From: rapidrail1 Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: ACSG web page correction
Group: S-Trains Message: 20781 From: Roger Hinds Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: Train Whistle
Group: S-Trains Message: 20782 From: Gerry Evans Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Track Nailing Tool
Group: S-Trains Message: 20783 From: lou342ac Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Train Land Rumor
Group: S-Trains Message: 20784 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: STARTER SET
Group: S-Trains Message: 20785 From: David Dewey Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: Train Land Rumor
Group: S-Trains Message: 20786 From: William Porter Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Link Coupler Help and The Seasons
Group: S-Trains Message: 20787 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: LTI AF GPs under TMCC
Group: S-Trains Message: 20788 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: LTI AF GPs under TMCC
Group: S-Trains Message: 20789 From: flyerfreak1986 Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Are you out there?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20790 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: LTI AF GPs under TMCC
Group: S-Trains Message: 20791 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: K-Line?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20792 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: tool
Group: S-Trains Message: 20793 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Starter set
Group: S-Trains Message: 20794 From: David Dewey Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20795 From: jahoozdumm Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: Reply from Nick Ladd
Group: S-Trains Message: 20796 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 20797 From: The Reis's Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20798 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: Starter set - Last Words
Group: S-Trains Message: 20799 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20800 From: royhoffman Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Starter Sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20801 From: robert allen conner Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20802 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: SETS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20803 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Link and Pin action car trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 20804 From: Rick Evans Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Whimsical?? Rivet counters..??
Group: S-Trains Message: 20805 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Verify Hoquat's Address
Group: S-Trains Message: 20806 From: Mark Preman Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20807 From: TWesthelle@aol.com Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20808 From: wintermutedm Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Thomas and starter sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20809 From: Mark Preman Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge Thomas the Tank Engine
Group: S-Trains Message: 20810 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 20811 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: Thomas and starter sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20812 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: Thomas and starter sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20813 From: David Dewey Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge Thomas the Tank Engine
Group: S-Trains Message: 20814 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: SETS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20815 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge Thomas the Tank Engine
Group: S-Trains Message: 20816 From: wintermutedm Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: quick question on selling S in Chicago....
Group: S-Trains Message: 20817 From: Jay E. Mellon Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Starter Sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20818 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Thomas and other stuff
Group: S-Trains Message: 20819 From: Paul Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: More Good News
Group: S-Trains Message: 20820 From: William Porter Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Putt Trains 0-4-0
Group: S-Trains Message: 20821 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: 21st Fall Get-Together web site
Group: S-Trains Message: 20822 From: David Dewey Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge Thomas the Tank Engine
Group: S-Trains Message: 20823 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge Thomas the Tank Engine
Group: S-Trains Message: 20824 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge Thomas the Tank Engine
Group: S-Trains Message: 20825 From: jahoozdumm Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: Starter set - Last Words
Group: S-Trains Message: 20826 From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20827 From: ljaneski@bellsouth.net Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20828 From: jfrr54 Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Starter Sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20829 From: rfgiardina Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Starter Sets?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20830 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Starter Sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20831 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: GMWTS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20832 From: Jay E. Mellon Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20833 From: roy inman Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Starter sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20834 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Fwd: THOMAS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20835 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Re: Fwd: THOMAS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20836 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Thomas
Group: S-Trains Message: 20837 From: THOMAS E HILLERY Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1560
Group: S-Trains Message: 20838 From: pieter_roos Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Putt trains was Re: Fwd: THOMAS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20839 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: ATLANTICS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20841 From: Richard Snook Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: warning...long winded
Group: S-Trains Message: 20842 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Starter Sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20843 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: High endstuff
Group: S-Trains Message: 20844 From: Richard Snook Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: its all in the timing!! da da..boom boom
Group: S-Trains Message: 20845 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20846 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: More Comments About Starter Sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20847 From: roy inman Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: S starter sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20848 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: More Comments About Starter Sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20849 From: jahoozdumm Date: 8/29/2002
Subject: Re: More Comments About Starter Sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20851 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/29/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Sets - Penultimate comment
Group: S-Trains Message: 20852 From: Mark Preman Date: 8/29/2002
Subject: Reproduction Reproducer Production!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20853 From: Richard Snook Date: 8/29/2002
Subject: Chuck's words on Mattel
Group: S-Trains Message: 20854 From: Richard Snook Date: 8/29/2002
Subject: sorry..another thought
Group: S-Trains Message: 20855 From: Michael Greene Date: 8/29/2002
Subject: Re: sorry..another thought
Group: S-Trains Message: 20856 From: Richard Snook Date: 8/29/2002
Subject: Ertl-ing along
Group: S-Trains Message: 20857 From: Alan Evans Date: 8/29/2002
Subject: Items on Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 20858 From: Alex Sibbald Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Starter Sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20859 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Re: sorry. a Flyer question
Group: S-Trains Message: 20860 From: rfgiardina Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Starter Sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20861 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20862 From: Rick Evans Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Fall/Halloween layout time.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 20863 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Still Timing
Group: S-Trains Message: 20864 From: Jay E. Mellon Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: S Catalogs
Group: S-Trains Message: 20865 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1564
Group: S-Trains Message: 20866 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: SETS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20867 From: The Reis's Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: F-7 American models engine wanted
Group: S-Trains Message: 20868 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20869 From: flyerfreak1986 Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Royal Blue, Circus and silver bullet engines
Group: S-Trains Message: 20870 From: crosley19 Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: MY S GAUGE LAYOUT WEBSITE
Group: S-Trains Message: 20871 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Mattel Hot Wheels Trainset as Big Lots
Group: S-Trains Message: 20872 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Re: sorry. a Flyer question
Group: S-Trains Message: 20873 From: Joe Visintine Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Starter sets, my $.02
Group: S-Trains Message: 20874 From: bilfrazier@aol.com Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Re: Ertl set
Group: S-Trains Message: 20875 From: Chuck Smith Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Scale Or Hi-Rail?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20876 From: David Dewey Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: sorry. a Flyer question--A WHAT???!!! Here??
Group: S-Trains Message: 20877 From: David Dewey Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Scale Or Hi-Rail?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20878 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Starter Philosophy
Group: S-Trains Message: 20879 From: Rick Evans Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Speaking of BBQ,..and chat...!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20880 From: Tim Brown Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: MY S GAUGE LAYOUT WEBSITE
Group: S-Trains Message: 20881 From: crosley19 Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: My S gauge layout website
Group: S-Trains Message: 20882 From: Peter Ervin Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1564
Group: S-Trains Message: 20883 From: trzp1800 Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: MY S GAUGE LAYOUT WEBSITE
Group: S-Trains Message: 20884 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Scale Or Hi-Rail?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20885 From: trzp1800 Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: SETS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20886 From: David Dewey Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Philosophy
Group: S-Trains Message: 20887 From: David Dewey Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: Speaking of BBQ,..and chat...!!OOPS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20888 From: David Dewey Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Scale Or Hi-Rail?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20889 From: David Dewey Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: SETS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20890 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Philosophy
Group: S-Trains Message: 20891 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Philosophy
Group: S-Trains Message: 20892 From: af21115 Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Show Date
Group: S-Trains Message: 20893 From: richard Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Dark chasm....lol
Group: S-Trains Message: 20894 From: robert allen conner Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: STARTER SETS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20895 From: Rick Evans Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: "S" is for seeds....
Group: S-Trains Message: 20896 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Scale Or Hi-Rail?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20897 From: trzp1800 Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Scale Or Hi-Rail?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20898 From: TED R LARSON Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: RC
Group: S-Trains Message: 20899 From: Tim Brown Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: Show Date
Group: S-Trains Message: 20900 From: richard Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: on the money ???
Group: S-Trains Message: 20901 From: David Dewey Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: "S" is for seeds....
Group: S-Trains Message: 20902 From: David Dewey Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: RC
Group: S-Trains Message: 20903 From: David Dewey Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Philosophy
Group: S-Trains Message: 20904 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Philosophy
Group: S-Trains Message: 20905 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Philosophy
Group: S-Trains Message: 20906 From: David Dewey Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Philosophy
Group: S-Trains Message: 20907 From: yazfacts Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: J.C.Penny's Set......
Group: S-Trains Message: 20908 From: IronHorse Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: Starter sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20909 From: richard Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: iron-ically
Group: S-Trains Message: 20910 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Philosophy
Group: S-Trains Message: 20911 From: michael prell Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Philosophy
Group: S-Trains Message: 20912 From: David Dewey Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Philosophy
Group: S-Trains Message: 20913 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: Re: J.C.Penny's Set......
Group: S-Trains Message: 20914 From: TED R LARSON Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: GN Motor Freight
Group: S-Trains Message: 20915 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20916 From: robbyking13 Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: Ebay Auction For 4-8-4
Group: S-Trains Message: 20917 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: Re: Show Date
Group: S-Trains Message: 20918 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20919 From: Tim Brown Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: Re: Show Date
Group: S-Trains Message: 20920 From: Don Thompson Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Scale Or Hi-Rail?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20921 From: Don Thompson Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: Re: Starter sets, my $.02
Group: S-Trains Message: 20922 From: Don Thompson Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: Re: Still Timing
Group: S-Trains Message: 20923 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: Re: Starter sets, my $.02
Group: S-Trains Message: 20924 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: Lemax Haunted House.......
Group: S-Trains Message: 20925 From: Don Thompson Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: Re: Starter sets, my $.02
Group: S-Trains Message: 20926 From: David Dewey Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: Re: Starter sets, my $.02
Group: S-Trains Message: 20927 From: David Dewey Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: Re: Starter sets, my $.02
Group: S-Trains Message: 20928 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: Timing
Group: S-Trains Message: 20929 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: 3n shows in 3 weeks
Group: S-Trains Message: 20930 From: crosley19 Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: Re: starter sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20931 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: starter set story
Group: S-Trains Message: 20932 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: Starter sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20933 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: Layaway at train stores....
Group: S-Trains Message: 20934 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: F-3's
Group: S-Trains Message: 20935 From: Kimball, Bob (CH) Date: 9/3/2002
Subject: A new Generation
Group: S-Trains Message: 20936 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 9/3/2002
Subject: Re: sorry. a Flyer question
Group: S-Trains Message: 20937 From: stargate7@cox.net Date: 9/3/2002
Subject: Help -- American Flyer pricing?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20938 From: Mark Preman Date: 9/3/2002
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 20939 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 9/3/2002
Subject: Ertl' 'starter' set
Group: S-Trains Message: 20940 From: notcoldenough Date: 9/3/2002
Subject: Steam tender electrical pickup shoe
Group: S-Trains Message: 20941 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 9/3/2002
Subject: Re: Show Date, Correction
Group: S-Trains Message: 20942 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 9/3/2002
Subject: Repair questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 20943 From: Richard Snook Date: 9/3/2002
Subject: genesis - revelations!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20944 From: Richard Snook Date: 9/3/2002
Subject: ambiguity clarified
Group: S-Trains Message: 20945 From: David Dewey Date: 9/3/2002
Subject: Re: Ertl' 'starter' set
Group: S-Trains Message: 20946 From: David Dewey Date: 9/3/2002
Subject: Re: Steam tender electrical pickup shoe
Group: S-Trains Message: 20947 From: Don Thompson Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Re: Chicago
Group: S-Trains Message: 20948 From: Peter Ervin Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Haunted House - Where can you order it?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20949 From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Re: Haunted House - Where can you order it?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20950 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1570
Group: S-Trains Message: 20951 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Ertl' 'starter' set questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 20952 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Haunted House - Where can you order it?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20953 From: TCS Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - All scales
Group: S-Trains Message: 20954 From: John McCarthy Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Reverse Loop question
Group: S-Trains Message: 20955 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Re: Reverse Loop question
Group: S-Trains Message: 20956 From: TCS Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Re: [RM-forum] Re: New decals from Oddballs Decals - All scales
Group: S-Trains Message: 20957 From: Tim Brown Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1570
Group: S-Trains Message: 20958 From: crustyfour Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Spookytown buildings
Group: S-Trains Message: 20959 From: crustyfour Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Incredible operating layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 20960 From: David A. Highfield Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Re: Incredible operating layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 20961 From: Tim Brown Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 20962 From: Rhett T. George Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Repair questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 20963 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: PRICE OF SETS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20964 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: LE MAX
Group: S-Trains Message: 20965 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: repair question - window cement
Group: S-Trains Message: 20966 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Some scoop on Lemax's Spooky Town stuff!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20967 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Re: LE MAX
Group: S-Trains Message: 20968 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Positively My Last Post on Starter Sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20969 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1570
Group: S-Trains Message: 20970 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Re: PRICE OF SETS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20971 From: Al Galli Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Auction
Group: S-Trains Message: 20972 From: Richard Snook Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: just curiouS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20973 From: Richard Snook Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: An Oponion !!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20974 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Repair Questions-2
Group: S-Trains Message: 20975 From: jahoozdumm Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Re: Positively My Last Post on Starter Sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 20976 From: jack nichol Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Prices reduced!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20977 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: Re: just curiouS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20978 From: David Dewey Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: Re: just curiouS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20979 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: "Old 1940's Trainset"
Group: S-Trains Message: 20980 From: stargate7@cox.net Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: Re: Help -- American Flyer pricing?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20981 From: stargate7@cox.net Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer equip. 4Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 20982 From: Tim Brown Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: My Toy Train Layout Revisited
Group: S-Trains Message: 20983 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: Re: just curiouS
Group: S-Trains Message: 20984 From: stargate7@cox.net Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer items
Group: S-Trains Message: 20985 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1571
Group: S-Trains Message: 20986 From: kc6ktj Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: Digest #20623
Group: S-Trains Message: 20987 From: kc6ktj Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: A. F. Christmas Car, LTI, Pt. #48341 "1999"
Group: S-Trains Message: 20988 From: kc6ktj Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: A.F. Mystik talking Station Pc. # 755
Group: S-Trains Message: 20989 From: Tim Brown Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: Re: My Toy Train Layout Revisited
Group: S-Trains Message: 20990 From: hgetrain Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: 0-6-0T Docksider
Group: S-Trains Message: 20991 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: Re: "Old 1940's Trainset"
Group: S-Trains Message: 20992 From: Richard Snook Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: Thanks all :-)
Group: S-Trains Message: 20993 From: Dale Smith Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: America's Railroads on Parade
Group: S-Trains Message: 20994 From: Ron Inscho Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] 0-6-0T Docksider
Group: S-Trains Message: 20995 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: Re: "Old 1940's Trainset"
Group: S-Trains Message: 20996 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: Re: Some scoop on Lemax's Spooky Town stuff!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20997 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: Re: A. F. Christmas Car, LTI, Pt. #48341 "1999"
Group: S-Trains Message: 20998 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: AF Coach colors.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 20999 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: TRUCKLOCO
Group: S-Trains Message: 21000 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: Re: A. F. Christmas Car, LTI, Pt. #48341 "1999"
Group: S-Trains Message: 21001 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: Re: A. F. Christmas Car, LTI, Pt. #48341 "1999"
Group: S-Trains Message: 21002 From: Rhett T. George Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: Repair Questions-2
Group: S-Trains Message: 21003 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21004 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21005 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: Repair Questions -3
Group: S-Trains Message: 21006 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: Re: AF Coach colors.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 21007 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21008 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21009 From: keith kuzma Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: 750 bridge house
Group: S-Trains Message: 21010 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/7/2002
Subject: Re: AF Coach colors.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 21011 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/7/2002
Subject: Re: "Old 1940's Trainset"
Group: S-Trains Message: 21012 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/7/2002
Subject: Re: America's Railroads on Parade
Group: S-Trains Message: 21013 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 9/7/2002
Subject: Re: "Old 1940's Trainset"
Group: S-Trains Message: 21014 From: Paul Date: 9/8/2002
Subject: Photo Gallery and other stuff
Group: S-Trains Message: 21015 From: Paul Date: 9/8/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Photo Gallery and other stuff
Group: S-Trains Message: 21016 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 9/8/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21017 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 9/8/2002
Subject: Where were you?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21018 From: crustyfour Date: 9/9/2002
Subject: Russia Iron
Group: S-Trains Message: 21019 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 9/9/2002
Subject: Re: PHOTO GALLERY
Group: S-Trains Message: 21020 From: The Reis's Date: 9/9/2002
Subject: Sale of extra stuff
Group: S-Trains Message: 21021 From: Dayna Warner Date: 9/10/2002
Subject: 1:64 vehicles
Group: S-Trains Message: 21022 From: TCS Date: 9/10/2002
Subject: yahoo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21023 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 9/10/2002
Subject: Need UP Observation car
Group: S-Trains Message: 21024 From: trzp1800 Date: 9/11/2002
Subject: What happened to website www.amerflyer.com?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21025 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/11/2002
Subject: Re: What happened to website www.amerflyer.com?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21026 From: John Foley Date: 9/11/2002
Subject: Timesaver
Group: S-Trains Message: 21027 From: jahoozdumm Date: 9/11/2002
Subject: Re: What happened to website www.amerflyer.com?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21028 From: jahoozdumm Date: 9/11/2002
Subject: Re: yahoo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21029 From: trzp1800 Date: 9/11/2002
Subject: Re: What happened to website www.amerflyer.com?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21030 From: pushpinss Date: 9/11/2002
Subject: Re: What happened to website www.amerflyer.com?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21031 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 9/11/2002
Subject: OGR site AF topics.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21032 From: hgetrain Date: 9/11/2002
Subject: Re: OGR site AF topics.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21033 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 9/11/2002
Subject: 751 Log Loader
Group: S-Trains Message: 21034 From: John M McAlonan Date: 9/12/2002
Subject: Re: New Thread
Group: S-Trains Message: 21035 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 9/12/2002
Subject: Blue Angel Smoke Shop
Group: S-Trains Message: 21036 From: Mark Preman Date: 9/12/2002
Subject: Reproducer Reproduction Production
Group: S-Trains Message: 21037 From: David Date: 9/12/2002
Subject: Re: Reproducer Reproduction Production
Group: S-Trains Message: 21038 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 9/12/2002
Subject: Re: More Good News
Group: S-Trains Message: 21039 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 9/13/2002
Subject: Re: A. F. Christmas Car, LTI, Pt. #48341 "1999"
Group: S-Trains Message: 21040 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 9/13/2002
Subject: Re: A. F. Christmas Car, LTI, Pt. #48341 "1999"
Group: S-Trains Message: 21041 From: Ted Walton Date: 9/13/2002
Subject: Reproducer Reproduction Production
Group: S-Trains Message: 21042 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 9/13/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21043 From: Jim C Date: 9/13/2002
Subject: Re: 1:64 vehicles
Group: S-Trains Message: 21044 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 9/13/2002
Subject: Noma Talking Station
Group: S-Trains Message: 21045 From: jetjok212@aol.com Date: 9/13/2002
Subject: address change
Group: S-Trains Message: 21046 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 9/14/2002
Subject: Re: Reproducer Reproduction Production
Group: S-Trains Message: 21047 From: Paul Date: 9/14/2002
Subject: Gallery Help Pages
Group: S-Trains Message: 21048 From: aglorince Date: 9/14/2002
Subject: train show pittsburgh, pa
Group: S-Trains Message: 21049 From: Don Thompson Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: Re: Photo of Christmas Car and PS-2s for 2002
Group: S-Trains Message: 21050 From: richard Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: final proof
Group: S-Trains Message: 21051 From: Don Thompson Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: Re: Photo of Christmas Car and PS-2s for 2002
Group: S-Trains Message: 21052 From: Dayna Warner Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: painting question
Group: S-Trains Message: 21053 From: Paul Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: Adding Photo Comments
Group: S-Trains Message: 21054 From: Steve Blancard Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: Fixing the "Buzz"
Group: S-Trains Message: 21055 From: Tom Rolfsmeyer Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: Going to York
Group: S-Trains Message: 21056 From: Paul Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: Who owns this site?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21057 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21058 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: 751 log loader
Group: S-Trains Message: 21059 From: David Dewey Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: Re: painting question
Group: S-Trains Message: 21060 From: David Dewey Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: Re: Fixing the "Buzz"
Group: S-Trains Message: 21061 From: Chuck Smith Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: Re: Fixing the "Buzz"
Group: S-Trains Message: 21062 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: Water Tank
Group: S-Trains Message: 21063 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: Re: Going to York
Group: S-Trains Message: 21064 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/16/2002
Subject: Yahooooooooo!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21065 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/16/2002
Subject: Re: YORK MOTELS
Group: S-Trains Message: 21066 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 9/16/2002
Subject: Idaho Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 21067 From: Bill Lane Date: 9/16/2002
Subject: Pennsy S Models Update
Group: S-Trains Message: 21068 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/16/2002
Subject: YORK....UPDATE
Group: S-Trains Message: 21069 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 9/16/2002
Subject: Re: YORK....UPDATE
Group: S-Trains Message: 21070 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 9/16/2002
Subject: Re: YORK....UPDATE
Group: S-Trains Message: 21071 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: The Life of the Hobby
Group: S-Trains Message: 21072 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: Re: The Life of the Hobby
Group: S-Trains Message: 21073 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: Attach gear to small shaft
Group: S-Trains Message: 21074 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: Re: The Life of the Hobby
Group: S-Trains Message: 21075 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: Re: The Life of the Hobby
Group: S-Trains Message: 21076 From: David Dewey Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: Re: The Life of the Hobby
Group: S-Trains Message: 21077 From: Yaakov Kirschen Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: #600 Crossing Gate wiring
Group: S-Trains Message: 21078 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: Re: The Life of the Hobby
Group: S-Trains Message: 21079 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: S Groups
Group: S-Trains Message: 21080 From: David Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: Re: The Life of the Hobby
Group: S-Trains Message: 21081 From: Mark Preman Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: Blatant AD - Sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 21082 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: Open House @ York
Group: S-Trains Message: 21083 From: pushpinss Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: new group
Group: S-Trains Message: 21084 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: Re: YORK MOTELS
Group: S-Trains Message: 21085 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/18/2002
Subject: Re: new group
Group: S-Trains Message: 21086 From: Roy Hoffman Date: 9/18/2002
Subject: Re: The Life of the Hobby
Group: S-Trains Message: 21087 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/18/2002
Subject: Re: new group
Group: S-Trains Message: 21088 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/18/2002
Subject: Re: YORK MOTELS
Group: S-Trains Message: 21089 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 9/18/2002
Subject: Re: new group
Group: S-Trains Message: 21090 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/18/2002
Subject: Re: new group
Group: S-Trains Message: 21091 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 9/18/2002
Subject: Attach gear to small shaft: RESOLVED!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21092 From: Neil Trump Date: 9/18/2002
Subject: November CTT
Group: S-Trains Message: 21093 From: gino restivo Date: 9/18/2002
Subject: york update , to ron borsella"s new store
Group: S-Trains Message: 21094 From: Tim Brown Date: 9/18/2002
Subject: Re: york update , to ron borsella"s new store
Group: S-Trains Message: 21095 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 9/18/2002
Subject: 751 Log Loader
Group: S-Trains Message: 21096 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 9/18/2002
Subject: Re: york update , to ron borsella"s new store
Group: S-Trains Message: 21097 From: gino restivo Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: Re: york update , to ron borsella"s new store
Group: S-Trains Message: 21098 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: Re: Attach gear to small shaft: RESOLVED!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21099 From: Dayna Warner Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: New Release making it's debut
Group: S-Trains Message: 21100 From: Mark Preman Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: Gilbert Get-together at York
Group: S-Trains Message: 21101 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: Re: Axle problem
Group: S-Trains Message: 21102 From: knockbill Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: 293
Group: S-Trains Message: 21103 From: David Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: Re: Attach gear to small shaft: RESOLVED!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21104 From: David Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert Get-together at York
Group: S-Trains Message: 21105 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: "Toy Train Memories" by CTT
Group: S-Trains Message: 21106 From: gino restivo Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: help with York Train Shows Please
Group: S-Trains Message: 21107 From: Clay Buckage Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: Re: help with York Train Shows Please
Group: S-Trains Message: 21108 From: Michael Greene Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: River Raisin Troop Sleepers - Pilot Model Construction Photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 21109 From: Don Thompson Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: Re: Fall Get-Together
Group: S-Trains Message: 21110 From: Ted Larson Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: Fwd: [switchers] Digest Number 19
Group: S-Trains Message: 21111 From: Bill Lane Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: Calling John Armstrong
Group: S-Trains Message: 21112 From: knockbill Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: 293
Group: S-Trains Message: 21113 From: Ted Larson Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: Fwd: Re: Tires
Group: S-Trains Message: 21114 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: 293
Group: S-Trains Message: 21115 From: Paul Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: New Book
Group: S-Trains Message: 21116 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1587
Group: S-Trains Message: 21117 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21118 From: gino restivo Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1587
Group: S-Trains Message: 21119 From: gino restivo Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1587
Group: S-Trains Message: 21120 From: Tim Brown Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: Virus again
Group: S-Trains Message: 21121 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: Re: Virus again
Group: S-Trains Message: 21122 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: New book,
Group: S-Trains Message: 21123 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: York shows
Group: S-Trains Message: 21124 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: Re: New Book
Group: S-Trains Message: 21125 From: TCS Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals
Group: S-Trains Message: 21126 From: knockbill Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: 293
Group: S-Trains Message: 21127 From: Mark Preman Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: Great American Train Show - Orlando
Group: S-Trains Message: 21128 From: Dayna Warner Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: detailing tip
Group: S-Trains Message: 21129 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: York - Too Many Rooms Available!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21130 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21131 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: Re: York - Too Many Rooms Available!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21132 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: Re: York - Too Many Rooms Available!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21133 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: Re: York - REASONABLE PRICES?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21134 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: Re: York - Too Many Rooms Available!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21135 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: Re: York - Too Many Rooms Available!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21136 From: Robert Jackson Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: Tractors
Group: S-Trains Message: 21137 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: ALL ORIGINAL AMERICAN FLYER SMOKE FLUID Item # 1769783426
Group: S-Trains Message: 21138 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: lower prices (was reasonable prices)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21139 From: Tim Brown Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Re: York - REASONABLE PRICES?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21140 From: SMASTER636@aol.com Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Philadelphia American Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 21141 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Fwd: Ron Borslla's Open House
Group: S-Trains Message: 21142 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Re: Too Many Rooms!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21143 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Re: York - REASONABLE PRICES?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21144 From: Tim Brown Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Re: York - REASONABLE PRICES?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21145 From: Don Thompson Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Re: Philadelphia American Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 21146 From: mlmarmer Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Re: Philadelphia American Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 21147 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Rooms, rooms, rooms
Group: S-Trains Message: 21148 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21149 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: More on rooms
Group: S-Trains Message: 21150 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Re: Tractors
Group: S-Trains Message: 21151 From: TED R LARSON Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: 1953 tractors
Group: S-Trains Message: 21152 From: Roy Hoffman Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Re: Philadelphia American Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 21153 From: Dayna Warner Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: The Siegel Building
Group: S-Trains Message: 21154 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Re: More on rooms
Group: S-Trains Message: 21155 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: more on rooms
Group: S-Trains Message: 21156 From: John Harvey Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Smoke In Tender Repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 21157 From: Karl Raab Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Boston Area - American Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 21158 From: mlmarmer Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: Re: More on rooms
Group: S-Trains Message: 21159 From: Tim Brown Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: Re: More on rooms
Group: S-Trains Message: 21160 From: Roy Hoffman Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: Re: Boston Area - American Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 21161 From: mlmarmer Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: Re: Boston Area - American Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 21162 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: More Shows
Group: S-Trains Message: 21163 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: Re: More on rooms
Group: S-Trains Message: 21164 From: David Dewey Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: Re: More on rooms
Group: S-Trains Message: 21165 From: David Dewey Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: Re: More on rooms
Group: S-Trains Message: 21166 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: rooms
Group: S-Trains Message: 21167 From: Michael T Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: Royal Blue Loco
Group: S-Trains Message: 21168 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: royal blue
Group: S-Trains Message: 21169 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: Re: Royal Blue Loco
Group: S-Trains Message: 21170 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1590
Group: S-Trains Message: 21171 From: Karl Raab Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: Boston Area -American Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 21172 From: Neil Trump Date: 9/24/2002
Subject: What actually is the definition of 'Pull-Mor'?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21173 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/24/2002
Subject: Re: What actually is the definition of 'Pull-Mor'?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21174 From: Neil Trump Date: 9/24/2002
Subject: Re: What actually is the definition of 'Pull-Mor'?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21175 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 9/24/2002
Subject: Re: What actually is the definition of 'Pull-Mor'?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21176 From: Chuck Smith Date: 9/24/2002
Subject: Re: What actually is the definition of 'Pull-Mor'?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21177 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 9/24/2002
Subject: Re: What actually is the definition of 'Pull-Mor'?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21178 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 9/24/2002
Subject: Parts wanted
Group: S-Trains Message: 21179 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 9/24/2002
Subject: Re: What actually is the definition of 'Pull-Mor'?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21180 From: David Dewey Date: 9/24/2002
Subject: Re: What actually is the definition of 'Pull-Mor'?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21181 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 9/24/2002
Subject: S-West IV
Group: S-Trains Message: 21182 From: Roger Delthony Date: 9/24/2002
Subject: Boston area AF dealers
Group: S-Trains Message: 21183 From: Joseph Haughney Date: 9/24/2002
Subject: Re: Boston area AF dealers
Group: S-Trains Message: 21184 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 9/25/2002
Subject: Re: What actually is the definition of 'Pull-Mor'?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21185 From: mlmarmer Date: 9/25/2002
Subject: Re: Boston area AF dealers
Group: S-Trains Message: 21186 From: TED R LARSON Date: 9/25/2002
Subject: Phun GN info
Group: S-Trains Message: 21187 From: joeawood@aol.com Date: 9/25/2002
Subject: 3RD Annual Scalefest
Group: S-Trains Message: 21188 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 9/25/2002
Subject: Re Pulmor definition.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21189 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 9/25/2002
Subject: Train stuff
Group: S-Trains Message: 21190 From: Ted Larson Date: 9/26/2002
Subject: Vintage Tractors
Group: S-Trains Message: 21191 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/26/2002
Subject: Pull-Mor
Group: S-Trains Message: 21192 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Re: ALL ORIGINAL AMERICAN FLYER SMOKE FLUID Item # 1769783426
Group: S-Trains Message: 21193 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Re: ALL ORIGINAL AMERICAN FLYER SMOKE FLUID Item # 1769783426
Group: S-Trains Message: 21194 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Re: ALL ORIGINAL AMERICAN FLYER SMOKE FLUID Item # 1769783426
Group: S-Trains Message: 21195 From: rfgiardina Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Will the Real Original Formula Smoke Fluid Please Stand Up!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21196 From: David Dewey Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Kerosene: WAS< ALL ORIGINAL AMERICAN FLYER SMOKE FLUID Item # 1769
Group: S-Trains Message: 21197 From: rfgiardina Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Re: Kerosene: WAS< ALL ORIGINAL AMERICAN FLYER SMOKE FLUID Item #
Group: S-Trains Message: 21198 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Smoke Fluids
Group: S-Trains Message: 21199 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Smoke Fluid PS
Group: S-Trains Message: 21200 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Re: Smoke Fluid PS
Group: S-Trains Message: 21201 From: john isn't eddie anymore Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Kerosene??-NOT!!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21202 From: rfgiardina Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Re: Kerosene??-NOT!!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21203 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Smoke fluid...
Group: S-Trains Message: 21204 From: Paul Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Photo Gallery Moved
Group: S-Trains Message: 21205 From: Rhett T. George Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: double helix worm
Group: S-Trains Message: 21206 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21207 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Flyer flat car bodies wanted
Group: S-Trains Message: 21208 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Converting lionel trilevel racks to flyer compatable
Group: S-Trains Message: 21209 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Re: Smoke Fluid PS
Group: S-Trains Message: 21210 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Re: Smoke Fluid PS
Group: S-Trains Message: 21211 From: jahoozdumm Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Re: Smoke Fluid PS
Group: S-Trains Message: 21212 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Super-Smoke
Group: S-Trains Message: 21213 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 9/28/2002
Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#1771754893: MTH-AM FLYER 785
Group: S-Trains Message: 21214 From: frankphi Date: 9/28/2002
Subject: Old TV promo film
Group: S-Trains Message: 21215 From: TED R LARSON Date: 9/28/2002
Subject: Vehicles
Group: S-Trains Message: 21216 From: Steve Blancard Date: 9/28/2002
Subject: Re: Smoke Fluid PS
Group: S-Trains Message: 21217 From: Jim Schiele Date: 9/29/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1596
Group: S-Trains Message: 21218 From: Mark Preman Date: 9/29/2002
Subject: 1950's American Flyer TV Shows
Group: S-Trains Message: 21219 From: Tom Rolfsmeyer Date: 9/29/2002
Subject: Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21220 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 9/29/2002
Subject: MTH Coal Loader Pulley
Group: S-Trains Message: 21221 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 9/29/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21222 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 9/30/2002
Subject: Need Steve's last name
Group: S-Trains Message: 21223 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 9/30/2002
Subject: Re: Need Steve's last name
Group: S-Trains Message: 21224 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 9/30/2002
Subject: New Hope (PA) Train Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 21225 From: eric.reis Date: 9/30/2002
Subject: Rolling stock for sale.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21226 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 10/1/2002
Subject: Re: NEW HOPE (PA) TRAIN SHOW
Group: S-Trains Message: 21227 From: Ted Larson Date: 10/1/2002
Subject: HELP
Group: S-Trains Message: 21228 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/1/2002
Subject: Re: HELP
Group: S-Trains Message: 21229 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 10/1/2002
Subject: Wheel spacing
Group: S-Trains Message: 21230 From: David Dewey Date: 10/1/2002
Subject: Re: Wheel spacing
Group: S-Trains Message: 21231 From: jahoozdumm Date: 10/1/2002
Subject: Wheel spacing
Group: S-Trains Message: 21232 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/2/2002
Subject: virii
Group: S-Trains Message: 21233 From: Scott Holm Date: 10/2/2002
Subject: Re: virii
Group: S-Trains Message: 21234 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 10/2/2002
Subject: AF 3/16" O cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 21235 From: jack nichol Date: 10/2/2002
Subject: 24933 Set?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21236 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 10/2/2002
Subject: 751-house
Group: S-Trains Message: 21238 From: jahoozdumm Date: 10/2/2002
Subject: Re: AF 3/16" O cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 21239 From: Ted Larson Date: 10/3/2002
Subject: module legs
Group: S-Trains Message: 21240 From: joeawood@aol.com Date: 10/3/2002
Subject: Layouts&show
Group: S-Trains Message: 21241 From: Tom Pennington Date: 10/3/2002
Subject: 5107W SF DIESEL FREIGHT SET
Group: S-Trains Message: 21242 From: David Date: 10/3/2002
Subject: Re: 5107W SF DIESEL FREIGHT SET
Group: S-Trains Message: 21243 From: garydmccullah Date: 10/3/2002
Subject: For Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 21244 From: jack nichol Date: 10/3/2002
Subject: Re: 24933 Set?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21245 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/3/2002
Subject: Re: AF 3/16" O cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 21246 From: aglorince Date: 10/3/2002
Subject: train show cleveland, oh
Group: S-Trains Message: 21247 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 10/3/2002
Subject: Truck rivets and eyelets question for L-Flyer trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 21248 From: Ted Larson Date: 10/4/2002
Subject: tractor steering wheels
Group: S-Trains Message: 21249 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 10/4/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21250 From: Walt Danylak Date: 10/5/2002
Subject: Re: AF 3/16" O cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 21251 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 10/5/2002
Subject: New products from S-'n-S
Group: S-Trains Message: 21252 From: Gerry Evans Date: 10/5/2002
Subject: Cleaning House
Group: S-Trains Message: 21253 From: Tom Pennington Date: 10/5/2002
Subject: Single motor Alco diesels
Group: S-Trains Message: 21254 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 10/5/2002
Subject: Re: New products from S-'n-S
Group: S-Trains Message: 21255 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/5/2002
Subject: Re: Single motor Alco diesels
Group: S-Trains Message: 21256 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/5/2002
Subject: single motor Alco diesels
Group: S-Trains Message: 21257 From: Al Reibel Date: 10/5/2002
Subject: Diesel number boards
Group: S-Trains Message: 21258 From: Doug Peck Date: 10/6/2002
Subject: Re: Number boards
Group: S-Trains Message: 21259 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 10/6/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1603
Group: S-Trains Message: 21260 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 10/6/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21261 From: Paul Date: 10/6/2002
Subject: [Fwd: NASG Elections]From Jamie Bothwell
Group: S-Trains Message: 21262 From: Paul Date: 10/6/2002
Subject: NASG Elections from Jamie Bothwell
Group: S-Trains Message: 21263 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 10/6/2002
Subject: New products photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 21264 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 10/6/2002
Subject: LOG CAR???
Group: S-Trains Message: 21265 From: gino restivo Date: 10/6/2002
Subject: Re: LOG CAR???
Group: S-Trains Message: 21266 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 10/6/2002
Subject: 717 Thank You
Group: S-Trains Message: 21267 From: Don Thompson Date: 10/7/2002
Subject: Re: Test
Group: S-Trains Message: 21268 From: Roy Hoffman Date: 10/7/2002
Subject: New website features
Group: S-Trains Message: 21269 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/7/2002
Subject: Another Server Move
Group: S-Trains Message: 21270 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/7/2002
Subject: Re: New products photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 21271 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 10/7/2002
Subject: AF thread on the OGR Forum
Group: S-Trains Message: 21272 From: robert allen conner Date: 10/8/2002
Subject: ROOM AT YORK
Group: S-Trains Message: 21273 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 10/9/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21274 From: joe messinger Date: 10/9/2002
Subject: Number Boards?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21275 From: louis glumac Date: 10/9/2002
Subject: Re:
Group: S-Trains Message: 21276 From: John Foley Date: 10/9/2002
Subject: S-Fest
Group: S-Trains Message: 21277 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/9/2002
Subject: Re: Number Boards?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21278 From: Lee Johnson Date: 10/9/2002
Subject: S-West IV Convention Schedule
Group: S-Trains Message: 21279 From: robert allen conner Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Re:
Group: S-Trains Message: 21280 From: robert allen conner Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: rare left handed curves
Group: S-Trains Message: 21281 From: Rick Evans Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Re: rare left handed curves
Group: S-Trains Message: 21282 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: S-trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 21283 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Re: S-trains Low Vol Of Posts
Group: S-Trains Message: 21284 From: louis glumac Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Re: S-trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 21285 From: nasglibrary Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Virus Warning
Group: S-Trains Message: 21286 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: virus warning
Group: S-Trains Message: 21287 From: Jay E. Mellon Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Virus Alert!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21288 From: Arden Goehring Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Virus Alert!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21289 From: robert allen conner Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Re: rare left handed curves
Group: S-Trains Message: 21290 From: robert allen conner Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 21291 From: nhterpsfan Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: jdbgmgr.exe Virus is hoax
Group: S-Trains Message: 21292 From: nasglibrary Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Virus -- continued
Group: S-Trains Message: 21293 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Re: S-trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 21294 From: clifma19 Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Chicago
Group: S-Trains Message: 21295 From: michael prell Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Re: rare left handed curves
Group: S-Trains Message: 21296 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: S-trains Low Vol Of Posts
Group: S-Trains Message: 21297 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Virus Alert!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21298 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: LH curves vs. RH curves
Group: S-Trains Message: 21299 From: splitdorf@1bigred.com Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: S-trains Low Vol Of Posts
Group: S-Trains Message: 21300 From: keith kuzma Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 21301 From: Alex Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: S-trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 21302 From: David Dewey Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: LH curves vs. RH curves
Group: S-Trains Message: 21303 From: David Dewey Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Quality of repro parts: was S-trains Low Vol Of Posts
Group: S-Trains Message: 21304 From: David Dewey Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: S-trains Low Vol Of Posts--not really Trains related, but fun.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21305 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: LH curves vs. RH curves
Group: S-Trains Message: 21306 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: S-trains Low Vol Of Posts
Group: S-Trains Message: 21307 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Left or Right Handed
Group: S-Trains Message: 21308 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Rare left hand curves
Group: S-Trains Message: 21309 From: Scott Holm Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: S-trains Low Vol Of Posts--not really Trains related, but fun.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21310 From: Arden Goehring Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Virus Alert!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21311 From: trzp1800 Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Revenge quote
Group: S-Trains Message: 21312 From: Rick Evans Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re-pro Moe & Joe......
Group: S-Trains Message: 21313 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: repro parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 21314 From: Robert Jackson Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Virus Alert!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21315 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: repro parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 21316 From: rfgiardina Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: repro parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 21318 From: rfgiardina Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: repro parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 21319 From: rfgiardina Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: Re-pro Moe & Joe......
Group: S-Trains Message: 21320 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: repro parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 21321 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21322 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Left and right handed curves.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21323 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Hoax?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21324 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: More Hoax
Group: S-Trains Message: 21325 From: John G Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Occupied block
Group: S-Trains Message: 21326 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: occupied block
Group: S-Trains Message: 21327 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: Occupied block
Group: S-Trains Message: 21328 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: Re-pro Moe & Joe......
Group: S-Trains Message: 21329 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/12/2002
Subject: Re: Re-pro Moe & Joe......
Group: S-Trains Message: 21330 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/12/2002
Subject: Virus Alerts - Last Word
Group: S-Trains Message: 21331 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/12/2002
Subject: Circus Car 3-Pack
Group: S-Trains Message: 21332 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 10/12/2002
Subject: Indianapolis GATS
Group: S-Trains Message: 21333 From: jahoozdumm Date: 10/12/2002
Subject: Re: Indianapolis GATS
Group: S-Trains Message: 21334 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/12/2002
Subject: My Big Annual Trip
Group: S-Trains Message: 21335 From: Ted Larson Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: JL
Group: S-Trains Message: 21336 From: lou342ac Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: Interesting Items
Group: S-Trains Message: 21337 From: Gerry Evans Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1611
Group: S-Trains Message: 21338 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: GATS
Group: S-Trains Message: 21339 From: Hilary Smith Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: Great Modeling in the Sept/Oct S Gaugian
Group: S-Trains Message: 21340 From: Hilary Smith Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: And Rusty Westermeier too
Group: S-Trains Message: 21341 From: Rick Evans Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: "Toy Train Memories" book....
Group: S-Trains Message: 21342 From: Dayna Warner Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: A funny thing happened at the show
Group: S-Trains Message: 21343 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21344 From: john4flyer Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: LTI TTUX Container Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 21345 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: RFG
Group: S-Trains Message: 21346 From: rfgiardina Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: Re: RFG
Group: S-Trains Message: 21347 From: jahoozdumm Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: Re: LTI TTUX Container Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 21348 From: Don Thompson Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: Re: S-trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 21349 From: lou342ac Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: Re: LTI TTUX Container Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 21350 From: Scott Holm Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: Re: LTI TTUX Container Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 21351 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: Fall S-Fest: Friday evening report
Group: S-Trains Message: 21352 From: Roy Plotnick Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: S-Fest feedback
Group: S-Trains Message: 21353 From: aag_rlg Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: Barrel Loader
Group: S-Trains Message: 21354 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: Lite Bulbs
Group: S-Trains Message: 21355 From: David Dewey Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: Re: Lite Bulbs
Group: S-Trains Message: 21356 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: barrel loader
Group: S-Trains Message: 21357 From: Don Thompson Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Fall S-Fest: Friday evening report
Group: S-Trains Message: 21358 From: John Foley Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Fall S-Fest: Friday evening report
Group: S-Trains Message: 21359 From: Roy Plotnick Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: SIT unit questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 21360 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: SIT questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 21361 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: Re: Lite Bulbs
Group: S-Trains Message: 21362 From: Roy Hoffman Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: NASG Building idea
Group: S-Trains Message: 21363 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: Re: Interesting Items
Group: S-Trains Message: 21364 From: garydmccullah Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: For Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 21365 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: American Flyer LTI Drawings and Parts lists
Group: S-Trains Message: 21366 From: David Dewey Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: Re: Interesting Items
Group: S-Trains Message: 21367 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Fall S-Fest: Friday evening report
Group: S-Trains Message: 21368 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 10/15/2002
Subject: Re: Lite Bulbs
Group: S-Trains Message: 21369 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/15/2002
Subject: Re: Fall S-Fest: Friday evening report
Group: S-Trains Message: 21370 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/15/2002
Subject: York meets
Group: S-Trains Message: 21371 From: gino restivo Date: 10/15/2002
Subject: Re: York , no rain inside meets
Group: S-Trains Message: 21372 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 10/15/2002
Subject: New Jet Train
Group: S-Trains Message: 21373 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 10/16/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1613
Group: S-Trains Message: 21374 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/16/2002
Subject: Re: York meets
Group: S-Trains Message: 21375 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/16/2002
Subject: Re: York meets
Group: S-Trains Message: 21376 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 10/16/2002
Subject: Paul Yorke's Site
Group: S-Trains Message: 21377 From: Gerry Evans Date: 10/16/2002
Subject: Fw: Cleaning House
Group: S-Trains Message: 21378 From: Uncle Thor Date: 10/16/2002
Subject: HO Shelf Layout Plans Posted
Group: S-Trains Message: 21379 From: Uncle Thor Date: 10/16/2002
Subject: Wrong heading - should be Holiday Display Layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 21380 From: keith kuzma Date: 10/17/2002
Subject: SAM BULB
Group: S-Trains Message: 21381 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 10/17/2002
Subject: My comments on S-Fest
Group: S-Trains Message: 21382 From: John Foley Date: 10/17/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] My comments on S-Fest
Group: S-Trains Message: 21383 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/17/2002
Subject: More York
Group: S-Trains Message: 21384 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/17/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] My comments on S-Fest
Group: S-Trains Message: 21385 From: John Foley Date: 10/17/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] My comments on S-Fest
Group: S-Trains Message: 21386 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/17/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] My comments on S-Fest
Group: S-Trains Message: 21387 From: Doug Peck Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Re: Hall hours
Group: S-Trains Message: 21388 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: If nominated I will not run...
Group: S-Trains Message: 21389 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Semaphore Ladder
Group: S-Trains Message: 21390 From: David Dewey Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Re: Semaphore Ladder
Group: S-Trains Message: 21391 From: downtowndeco Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Out of production kits.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21392 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1616
Group: S-Trains Message: 21393 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Two Sides
Group: S-Trains Message: 21394 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Re: Semaphore Ladder
Group: S-Trains Message: 21395 From: rfgiardina Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Re: Semaphore Ladder
Group: S-Trains Message: 21396 From: rfgiardina Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1616
Group: S-Trains Message: 21397 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Sad news
Group: S-Trains Message: 21398 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Digest Number 1398
Group: S-Trains Message: 21399 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Hudson Pilot Coupler Conversion
Group: S-Trains Message: 21400 From: Rick Evans Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Sad news
Group: S-Trains Message: 21401 From: wintermutedm Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: S-Fest
Group: S-Trains Message: 21402 From: Lee Johnson Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: S-west IV Convention Car Order Form
Group: S-Trains Message: 21403 From: Jay E. Mellon Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Fall S Fest - View From The Hinterlands
Group: S-Trains Message: 21404 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21405 From: keith kuzma Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: American Models steamer
Group: S-Trains Message: 21406 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/19/2002
Subject: Re: American Models steamer
Group: S-Trains Message: 21407 From: Doug Peck Date: 10/19/2002
Subject: Re: SAM bulbs
Group: S-Trains Message: 21408 From: eric.reis Date: 10/19/2002
Subject: Trains for Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 21409 From: rcon7@bellsouth.net Date: 10/19/2002
Subject: Re: "s" trains ??????
Group: S-Trains Message: 21410 From: trzp1800 Date: 10/20/2002
Subject: Re: Hudson Pilot Coupler Conversion
Group: S-Trains Message: 21411 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 10/20/2002
Subject: couple of things
Group: S-Trains Message: 21412 From: Steve Blancard Date: 10/20/2002
Subject: Halloween - American Flyer style
Group: S-Trains Message: 21413 From: joecraig60514 Date: 10/20/2002
Subject: Fall S-Fest
Group: S-Trains Message: 21414 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/20/2002
Subject: Re: Halloween - American Flyer style
Group: S-Trains Message: 21415 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 10/20/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21416 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/20/2002
Subject: Chat Room Address
Group: S-Trains Message: 21417 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/20/2002
Subject: oops Chat room address
Group: S-Trains Message: 21418 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/20/2002
Subject: Re: "s" trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 21419 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 10/21/2002
Subject: NASG Membership
Group: S-Trains Message: 21420 From: knockbill Date: 10/21/2002
Subject: 12B
Group: S-Trains Message: 21421 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 10/21/2002
Subject: Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21422 From: ljaneski@bellsouth.net Date: 10/21/2002
Subject: Re: Fall S Fest - View From The Hinterlands
Group: S-Trains Message: 21423 From: jfrr54 Date: 10/21/2002
Subject: Re: "s" trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 21424 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 10/21/2002
Subject: E-Bay STRIKES AGAIN
Group: S-Trains Message: 21425 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/21/2002
Subject: York shows
Group: S-Trains Message: 21426 From: Bill Lane Date: 10/21/2002
Subject: Southwind Models S Scale B & O I-5 caboose
Group: S-Trains Message: 21427 From: Michael Greene Date: 10/21/2002
Subject: [Annoucement] New Yahoo Group & Discussion List for NASG Members
Group: S-Trains Message: 21428 From: jnr59@aol.com Date: 10/21/2002
Subject: American Models/SHS 80' Pullman Heavyweights
Group: S-Trains Message: 21429 From: jnr59@aol.com Date: 10/21/2002
Subject: American Models/SHS 80' Pullman Heavyweights
Group: S-Trains Message: 21430 From: jahoozdumm Date: 10/21/2002
Subject: Re: "s" trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 21431 From: David Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: Re: York shows
Group: S-Trains Message: 21432 From: Michael Greene Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: [Announcement] CORRECTED URL: nasgmembers Yahoo Group
Group: S-Trains Message: 21433 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay STRIKES AGAIN
Group: S-Trains Message: 21434 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: Re: eBay Strikes Again
Group: S-Trains Message: 21435 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: Re: York shows
Group: S-Trains Message: 21436 From: John Foley Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Southwind Models S Scale B & O I-5 caboose
Group: S-Trains Message: 21437 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Southwind Models S Scale B & O I-5 c aboose
Group: S-Trains Message: 21438 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: NASG chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21439 From: David Dewey Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: Re: eBay Strikes Again
Group: S-Trains Message: 21440 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: York shows
Group: S-Trains Message: 21441 From: Michael Greene Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: Re: NASG chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21442 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: Re: York
Group: S-Trains Message: 21443 From: Bill Lane Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: Southwind Models S Scale B & O I-5 c aboose
Group: S-Trains Message: 21444 From: jahoozdumm Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: Re: York shows
Group: S-Trains Message: 21445 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/23/2002
Subject: Hirail ( was York)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21446 From: Roy Hoffman Date: 10/23/2002
Subject: Toronto 2002
Group: S-Trains Message: 21447 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 10/23/2002
Subject: Starter Sets and K-Line
Group: S-Trains Message: 21448 From: tomp4884 Date: 10/23/2002
Subject: 3 digit vs 5 digit Santa Fe Freight PA
Group: S-Trains Message: 21449 From: Neil Trump Date: 10/23/2002
Subject: K-Line Big Boy
Group: S-Trains Message: 21450 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 10/23/2002
Subject: NASG Newsgroup
Group: S-Trains Message: 21451 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 10/23/2002
Subject: Re: 3 digit vs 5 digit Santa Fe Freight PA
Group: S-Trains Message: 21452 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/23/2002
Subject: Re: 3 digit vs 5 digit Santa Fe Freight PA
Group: S-Trains Message: 21453 From: Euell Johnson Date: 10/23/2002
Subject: Re: Southwind Models S Scale B & O I-5 c aboose
Group: S-Trains Message: 21454 From: Bill Lane Date: 10/23/2002
Subject: Southwind Models S Scale B & O I-5 caboose
Group: S-Trains Message: 21455 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/23/2002
Subject: 3 digit vs 5 digit Freight PA
Group: S-Trains Message: 21456 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 10/23/2002
Subject: Re: 3 digit vs 5 digit Freight PA
Group: S-Trains Message: 21457 From: Dan Brindell Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Questions about DC vs. AC
Group: S-Trains Message: 21458 From: Don Thompson Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Re: Questions about DC vs. AC
Group: S-Trains Message: 21459 From: David A. Highfield Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Re: Questions about DC vs. AC
Group: S-Trains Message: 21460 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21461 From: David Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Help electronics experts....
Group: S-Trains Message: 21462 From: Steve Blancard Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Re: Questions about DC vs. AC
Group: S-Trains Message: 21463 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: DC common rail system
Group: S-Trains Message: 21464 From: Steve Blancard Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Re: Questions about DC vs. AC
Group: S-Trains Message: 21465 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: CASEY JONES
Group: S-Trains Message: 21466 From: splitdorf@1bigred.com Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Re: CASEY JONES
Group: S-Trains Message: 21467 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Re: Help electronics experts....
Group: S-Trains Message: 21468 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1620
Group: S-Trains Message: 21469 From: Don Abrams Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Re: 3 digit vs. 5 digit Santa Fe Freight PA
Group: S-Trains Message: 21470 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: watts
Group: S-Trains Message: 21471 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Re: watts
Group: S-Trains Message: 21472 From: John Foley Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Test
Group: S-Trains Message: 21473 From: Dan Brindell Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: AC vs. DC followup
Group: S-Trains Message: 21474 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: DC common rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 21475 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Re: DC common rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 21476 From: roy inman Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: K-line and S
Group: S-Trains Message: 21477 From: Ron Inscho Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Fw: FBI issues warning for railroads
Group: S-Trains Message: 21478 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: DC common rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 21479 From: roy inman Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: FW: K-line and S
Group: S-Trains Message: 21480 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: DC Common rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 21481 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: New Items
Group: S-Trains Message: 21482 From: Rick Evans Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Re: CASEY JONES
Group: S-Trains Message: 21483 From: Steve Blancard Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re: CASEY JONES
Group: S-Trains Message: 21484 From: Alex Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re: watts
Group: S-Trains Message: 21485 From: David Dewey Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: My computer is past-tense!! AAUGH!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21486 From: splitdorf@1bigred.com Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: FBI issues warning for railroads
Group: S-Trains Message: 21487 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Double Header Hudson Fun.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21488 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: another DC common r ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21489 From: John Foley Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re: [nasgmembers] Double Header Hudson Fun.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21490 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re: another DC common r ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21491 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: More E-Bay Shenanigans
Group: S-Trains Message: 21492 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: K-Line
Group: S-Trains Message: 21493 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re: another DC common r ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21494 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re: More E-Bay Shenanigans
Group: S-Trains Message: 21495 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: AC/DC
Group: S-Trains Message: 21496 From: John L. Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re: More E-Bay Shenanigans
Group: S-Trains Message: 21497 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: DC common rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 21498 From: eric.reis Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: AM GP35 shell swap or engines for sale.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21499 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21500 From: Dan Brindell Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re: More E-Bay Shenanigans
Group: S-Trains Message: 21501 From: Dan Brindell Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re: More E-Bay Shenanigans (correction)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21502 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: TCA S-Gauge offerings
Group: S-Trains Message: 21503 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: DC footnote
Group: S-Trains Message: 21504 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re: AC/DC
Group: S-Trains Message: 21505 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re: DC common rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 21506 From: Lance McCold Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re AC v.DC
Group: S-Trains Message: 21507 From: jahoozdumm Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re AC v.DC
Group: S-Trains Message: 21508 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/26/2002
Subject: Re: AC/DC
Group: S-Trains Message: 21509 From: bilfrazier@aol.com Date: 10/26/2002
Subject: Re: DCC
Group: S-Trains Message: 21510 From: robert allen conner Date: 10/26/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line Big Boy
Group: S-Trains Message: 21511 From: robert allen conner Date: 10/26/2002
Subject: Re: K line
Group: S-Trains Message: 21512 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/26/2002
Subject: Re: Re AC v.DC
Group: S-Trains Message: 21513 From: robert allen conner Date: 10/26/2002
Subject: Re: York
Group: S-Trains Message: 21514 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 10/26/2002
Subject: Flyer Videos
Group: S-Trains Message: 21515 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 10/26/2002
Subject: Re: AC/DC (and DCC)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21516 From: Mark Preman Date: 10/26/2002
Subject: Thomas the Tank Engine in S Gauge-Blatant Ad
Group: S-Trains Message: 21517 From: Neil Trump Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: K Line offerings
Group: S-Trains Message: 21518 From: robert allen conner Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: Re: K Line offerings
Group: S-Trains Message: 21519 From: Don Thompson Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: Re: AF widths
Group: S-Trains Message: 21520 From: Neil Trump Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: Re: K Line offerings and width
Group: S-Trains Message: 21521 From: Walt Danylak Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: Re: AF width
Group: S-Trains Message: 21522 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: Af width
Group: S-Trains Message: 21523 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: Bridge rectifier to dpdt switch
Group: S-Trains Message: 21524 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: Re: DCC
Group: S-Trains Message: 21525 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: Re: Bridge rectifier to dpdt switch
Group: S-Trains Message: 21526 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21527 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: ROBINSON'S (TRACKS AHEAD) LAYOUT
Group: S-Trains Message: 21528 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: AF 0-8-0 Conversion to TMCC and Elecrocouplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 21529 From: Don Thompson Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: Re: AF 0-8-0 Conversion to TMCC and Elecrocouplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 21530 From: colleenandrob Date: 10/28/2002
Subject: Step by step instructions for CD Conv?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21531 From: AF336 Date: 10/28/2002
Subject: Re: TCA S-Gauge offerings
Group: S-Trains Message: 21532 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/28/2002
Subject: Re: Step by step instructions for CD Conv?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21533 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 10/28/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1627
Group: S-Trains Message: 21534 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/28/2002
Subject: Re: Step by step instructions for CD Conv?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21535 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/28/2002
Subject: Change of Address
Group: S-Trains Message: 21536 From: Jim Armstrong Date: 10/28/2002
Subject: Docksider part
Group: S-Trains Message: 21537 From: joecraig60514 Date: 10/28/2002
Subject: Need Advice RE: Rubber Roadbed
Group: S-Trains Message: 21538 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 10/29/2002
Subject: New Line of Cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 21539 From: Gerry Evans Date: 10/29/2002
Subject: S West
Group: S-Trains Message: 21540 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 10/29/2002
Subject: Rubber rejuvenator
Group: S-Trains Message: 21541 From: Rick Evans Date: 10/29/2002
Subject: Re: S West
Group: S-Trains Message: 21542 From: David Dewey Date: 10/29/2002
Subject: Re: S West
Group: S-Trains Message: 21543 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 10/29/2002
Subject: reverse unit drums
Group: S-Trains Message: 21544 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 10/29/2002
Subject: a nudder' ting
Group: S-Trains Message: 21545 From: eric.reis Date: 10/29/2002
Subject: Re: reverse unit drums
Group: S-Trains Message: 21546 From: Wayne Zebron Date: 10/29/2002
Subject: "walking Brakeman"
Group: S-Trains Message: 21547 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/29/2002
Subject: Help! Wiring late style 2 step reverse units
Group: S-Trains Message: 21548 From: jahoozdumm Date: 10/29/2002
Subject: Re: "walking Brakeman"
Group: S-Trains Message: 21549 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: 2 step reverse units
Group: S-Trains Message: 21550 From: David Dewey Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: ACG's story on TV!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21554 From: David Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: Joke of the week....
Group: S-Trains Message: 21555 From: Ted Larson Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: Sound Station 312
Group: S-Trains Message: 21556 From: Ted Larson Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: club layout electronics
Group: S-Trains Message: 21557 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: Block control question
Group: S-Trains Message: 21558 From: Don Thompson Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: Re: SHS Container leaves LA...Hooray
Group: S-Trains Message: 21559 From: John G Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: MTH operating flag
Group: S-Trains Message: 21560 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: What was the question?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21561 From: John G Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: Flyer Whistle review
Group: S-Trains Message: 21562 From: Bill Lane Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: Southwind B & O EM-1
Group: S-Trains Message: 21563 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: Re: What was the question?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21564 From: Kelvin White Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: Out of Production SHS Freight Cars for sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 21565 From: robert allen conner Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: Re: Best "S" Prices
Group: S-Trains Message: 21566 From: eric.reis Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: Re: Best "S" Prices
Group: S-Trains Message: 21567 From: David Dewey Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: Re: What was the question?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21568 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Flag
Group: S-Trains Message: 21569 From: Don Thompson Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Christmas Car
Group: S-Trains Message: 21570 From: Rhett T. George Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Block control question
Group: S-Trains Message: 21571 From: Steve Blancard Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: ACG's story on TV!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21572 From: Rhett T. George Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: What was the question?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21573 From: mlmarmer Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: ACG's story on TV!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21574 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: what was the question?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21575 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: Block control question
Group: S-Trains Message: 21576 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: ACG's story on TV!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21577 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: Block control question
Group: S-Trains Message: 21578 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: Block control question
Group: S-Trains Message: 21579 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: Block control question
Group: S-Trains Message: 21580 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: Block control question
Group: S-Trains Message: 21581 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: Block control question
Group: S-Trains Message: 21582 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: Block control question
Group: S-Trains Message: 21583 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: base post (was block control question)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21584 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: base post (was block control question)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21585 From: theheadliner Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: Need Advice RE: Rubber Roadbed
Group: S-Trains Message: 21586 From: splitdorf@1bigred.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: ACG's story on TV!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21587 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: Block control question
Group: S-Trains Message: 21588 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: (faster in reverse mill.) was "what was the quest"ion?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21589 From: knockbill Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: base post
Group: S-Trains Message: 21590 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: ACG's story on TV!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21591 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: AC Gilbert Movie
Group: S-Trains Message: 21592 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Control blocks
Group: S-Trains Message: 21593 From: Scott Holm Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: S-fest photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 21594 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: base post (was control blocks)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21595 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Electricity 101
Group: S-Trains Message: 21596 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Block control
Group: S-Trains Message: 21597 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Electrical versions of Sam & base posts
Group: S-Trains Message: 21598 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: Block control (w/polarity reverse)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21599 From: John G Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: Block control
Group: S-Trains Message: 21600 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: electricity 101
Group: S-Trains Message: 21601 From: Roy Inman Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: AC movie
Group: S-Trains Message: 21602 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: York Report
Group: S-Trains Message: 21603 From: Bruce Papky Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Who is the hero? Jason or ACG?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21604 From: TCS Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: 20% off decal sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 21605 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: Block control
Group: S-Trains Message: 21606 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: What was the question?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21607 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Gilbert wiring instructions
Group: S-Trains Message: 21608 From: Don Thompson Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: Re: York Report
Group: S-Trains Message: 21609 From: Don Thompson Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: Re: Who is the hero? Jason or ACG?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21610 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert wiring instructions
Group: S-Trains Message: 21611 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: Correction
Group: S-Trains Message: 21612 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: Re: York Report
Group: S-Trains Message: 21613 From: Jerry Riechert Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1632
Group: S-Trains Message: 21614 From: Don Thompson Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: Re: Layout photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 21615 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21616 From: Bill Lane Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: S Scale J-1
Group: S-Trains Message: 21617 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1632
Group: S-Trains Message: 21618 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: Re: AC movie
Group: S-Trains Message: 21619 From: John Foley Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] S Scale J-1
Group: S-Trains Message: 21620 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1632
Group: S-Trains Message: 21621 From: Gary Chidester Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: TM Price Guide
Group: S-Trains Message: 21622 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: New American Flyer Discussion on OGR forum
Group: S-Trains Message: 21623 From: Dayna Warner Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: New Release
Group: S-Trains Message: 21624 From: Ted Larson Date: 11/2/2002
Subject: critters
Group: S-Trains Message: 21625 From: mlmarmer Date: 11/2/2002
Subject: Re: TM Price Guide
Group: S-Trains Message: 21626 From: Clay Date: 11/2/2002
Subject: Re: TM Price Guide
Group: S-Trains Message: 21627 From: Steve Blancard Date: 11/2/2002
Subject: Re: critters
Group: S-Trains Message: 21628 From: Dayna Warner Date: 11/2/2002
Subject: Next new release coming shortly
Group: S-Trains Message: 21629 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 11/2/2002
Subject: S- Video Volume VI
Group: S-Trains Message: 21630 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/3/2002
Subject: More Flyer Books
Group: S-Trains Message: 21631 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 11/3/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21632 From: David Date: 11/3/2002
Subject: Re: TM Price Guide
Group: S-Trains Message: 21633 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/3/2002
Subject: Re: TM Price Guide
Group: S-Trains Message: 21634 From: Gary Chidester Date: 11/3/2002
Subject: Re: TM Price Guide
Group: S-Trains Message: 21635 From: David Date: 11/4/2002
Subject: Re: TM Price Guide
Group: S-Trains Message: 21636 From: mlmarmer Date: 11/4/2002
Subject: Re: TM Price Guide
Group: S-Trains Message: 21637 From: roberte613@aol.com Date: 11/4/2002
Subject: American Models 4-6-2 Wheel Install Help
Group: S-Trains Message: 21638 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/4/2002
Subject: TM vs. Greenberg.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 21639 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/4/2002
Subject: Re: TM vs. Greenberg.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 21640 From: hgetrain Date: 11/4/2002
Subject: Re: American Models 4-6-2 Wheel Install Help
Group: S-Trains Message: 21641 From: eric.reis Date: 11/4/2002
Subject: disconnect reconnect test
Group: S-Trains Message: 21642 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/4/2002
Subject: Re: TM Price Guide
Group: S-Trains Message: 21643 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/4/2002
Subject: Re: American Models 4-6-2 Wheel Install Help
Group: S-Trains Message: 21644 From: Alex Sibbald Date: 11/4/2002
Subject: ebay cancelation
Group: S-Trains Message: 21645 From: David Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: ebay cancelation
Group: S-Trains Message: 21646 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Gilbert special
Group: S-Trains Message: 21647 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Ebay ethics
Group: S-Trains Message: 21648 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: disconnect reconnect test - YUP!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21649 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay Cancellation
Group: S-Trains Message: 21650 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: eBay Cancellation
Group: S-Trains Message: 21651 From: Roy Plotnick Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: S-fest; Uncataloged set
Group: S-Trains Message: 21652 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: Cancelling auctions and a new site
Group: S-Trains Message: 21653 From: AF336 Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: Cancelling auctions and a new site
Group: S-Trains Message: 21654 From: rkuepper Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: ebay cancelation
Group: S-Trains Message: 21655 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Gabe Instructions
Group: S-Trains Message: 21656 From: Al Reibel Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: Cancelling auctions and a new site
Group: S-Trains Message: 21657 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] RE: Cancelling auctions and a new site
Group: S-Trains Message: 21658 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: No doubt about it
Group: S-Trains Message: 21659 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: [S-Trains] RE: Cancelling auctions and a new site
Group: S-Trains Message: 21660 From: Tom Pennington Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: Cancelling auctions
Group: S-Trains Message: 21661 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: Cancelling auctions and a new site
Group: S-Trains Message: 21662 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: Cancelling auctions
Group: S-Trains Message: 21663 From: rkuepper Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: Cancelling auctions
Group: S-Trains Message: 21664 From: rkuepper Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: Cancelling auctions
Group: S-Trains Message: 21665 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: S-fest; Uncataloged set
Group: S-Trains Message: 21666 From: Wayne Zebron Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: brakeman
Group: S-Trains Message: 21667 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: Cancelling auctions
Group: S-Trains Message: 21668 From: Al Reibel Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Flyer Plastic?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21669 From: Michael T Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: eBay auctions
Group: S-Trains Message: 21670 From: Dan Brindell Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Modest suggestion to eBay
Group: S-Trains Message: 21671 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer Plastic?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21672 From: keith kuzma Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Fwd: geep shell
Group: S-Trains Message: 21673 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 21674 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: #3336 completed (was 4-6-6-4 Challenger Project)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21675 From: David Dewey Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: #3336 completed (was 4-6-6-4 Challenger Project)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21676 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: eBay auctions
Group: S-Trains Message: 21677 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Modest suggestion to eBay
Group: S-Trains Message: 21678 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: blank attachments
Group: S-Trains Message: 21679 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Sniping and Shilling
Group: S-Trains Message: 21680 From: splitdorf@1bigred.com Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: #3336 completed (was 4-6-6-4 Challenger Project)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21681 From: David Dewey Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: Sniping and Shilling
Group: S-Trains Message: 21682 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: roar vibrator part
Group: S-Trains Message: 21683 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: Sniping and Shilling
Group: S-Trains Message: 21684 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: Sniping and Shilling
Group: S-Trains Message: 21685 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: Sniping and Shilling
Group: S-Trains Message: 21686 From: David Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: roar vibrator part
Group: S-Trains Message: 21687 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: EBAY Sniping and Shilling
Group: S-Trains Message: 21688 From: Gary Chidester Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Trains in New Mexico?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21689 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: Sniping and Shilling
Group: S-Trains Message: 21690 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: Trains in New Mexico?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21691 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: Trains in New Mexico?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21692 From: Ron Inscho Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 21693 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Ebay bidding....
Group: S-Trains Message: 21694 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Modest suggestion to eBay
Group: S-Trains Message: 21695 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: roar vibrator part
Group: S-Trains Message: 21696 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Ebay extended auctions
Group: S-Trains Message: 21697 From: David Engle Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: #3336 completed (was 4-6-6-4 Challenger Project)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21698 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: #3336 completed (was 4-6-6-4 Challenger Project)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21699 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Snipped again!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21700 From: John G Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: American Models K4 Pacific
Group: S-Trains Message: 21701 From: lb drummer3 Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: #3336 completed (was 4-6-6-4 Challenger Project)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21702 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: #3336 completed (was 4-6-6-4 Challenger Project)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21703 From: Mike Vana Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Area 51 and Ebay auctions
Group: S-Trains Message: 21704 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: American Models K4 Pacific
Group: S-Trains Message: 21705 From: eric.reis Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: Area 51 and Ebay auctions
Group: S-Trains Message: 21706 From: Don Thompson Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: SHS blatant advertising.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21707 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: AF in TTRevue
Group: S-Trains Message: 21708 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: eBAy Area 51 and Ebay auctions
Group: S-Trains Message: 21709 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: American Models K4 Pacific
Group: S-Trains Message: 21710 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: Area 51 and Ebay auctions
Group: S-Trains Message: 21711 From: Lance McCold Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Putt Thomas the Tank Engine
Group: S-Trains Message: 21712 From: Michael T Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: eBAy Area 51 and Ebay auctions
Group: S-Trains Message: 21713 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: American Models K4 Pacific
Group: S-Trains Message: 21714 From: jahoozdumm Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: AF in TTRevue
Group: S-Trains Message: 21715 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: EBAY Sniping and Shilling
Group: S-Trains Message: 21716 From: David Dewey Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: roar vibrator part
Group: S-Trains Message: 21717 From: David Dewey Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Repro'd, Was eBay shilling, etc.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21718 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: The Lemax "Spooky Town"....on sale.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21719 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: EBAY Sniping and Shilling
Group: S-Trains Message: 21720 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: Repro'd, Was eBay shilling, etc.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21721 From: David Dewey Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: Repro'd, should have been Repo'd--AAUGH!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21722 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: roar vibrator part
Group: S-Trains Message: 21723 From: splitdorf@1bigred.com Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: Putt Thomas the Tank Engine
Group: S-Trains Message: 21724 From: Mark Preman Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: American Flyer Trains and Other Stuff For Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 21725 From: aglorince Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: train show pittsburgh
Group: S-Trains Message: 21726 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: AF in TTRevue
Group: S-Trains Message: 21727 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1638
Group: S-Trains Message: 21728 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Thanks for the help
Group: S-Trains Message: 21729 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: 2 step reverse units
Group: S-Trains Message: 21730 From: Scott Holm Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1638
Group: S-Trains Message: 21731 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: roar vibrator part
Group: S-Trains Message: 21732 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: GATS show in Pomona Ca
Group: S-Trains Message: 21733 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: GATS show in Pomona Ca/ CAL STEWART
Group: S-Trains Message: 21734 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Photos in album
Group: S-Trains Message: 21735 From: Gerry Evans Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: More House Cleaning
Group: S-Trains Message: 21736 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: CAL STEWART
Group: S-Trains Message: 21737 From: Steven Salaway Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: GATS show in Pomona Ca
Group: S-Trains Message: 21738 From: JConn444@aol.com Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: eBay vs. S gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 21739 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: roar vibrator part
Group: S-Trains Message: 21740 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Fact or Urban legend?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21741 From: Tom Pennington Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: What is this? (on eBay)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21742 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: GATS in Cincinnati
Group: S-Trains Message: 21743 From: hgetrain Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: Fact or Urban legend?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21744 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: What is this? (on eBay)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21745 From: David Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Re: What is this? (on eBay)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21746 From: Gerry Evans Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Fw: [S-Scale] More House Cleaning
Group: S-Trains Message: 21747 From: Rhett T. George Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Oversize S
Group: S-Trains Message: 21748 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Complaints
Group: S-Trains Message: 21749 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Oversized S
Group: S-Trains Message: 21750 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Complaints
Group: S-Trains Message: 21751 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Oversized S
Group: S-Trains Message: 21752 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Complaints
Group: S-Trains Message: 21753 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Oversized S
Group: S-Trains Message: 21754 From: colleenandrob Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Whistle fo AF 326 Hudson?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21755 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Re: Whistle fo AF 326 Hudson?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21756 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Re complaints
Group: S-Trains Message: 21757 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Oversized S
Group: S-Trains Message: 21758 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Complaints
Group: S-Trains Message: 21759 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21760 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Faulty Keyboard
Group: S-Trains Message: 21761 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Re: Complaints
Group: S-Trains Message: 21762 From: Steve Blancard Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Connecting a highway flasher
Group: S-Trains Message: 21763 From: Dan Brindell Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Re: What is this? (on eBay)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21764 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] Complaints
Group: S-Trains Message: 21765 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: On30 North Pole Express...
Group: S-Trains Message: 21766 From: John G Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: Re: Connecting a highway flasher
Group: S-Trains Message: 21767 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: 1/64 vehicles on sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 21768 From: Jim Armstrong Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: Docksider again
Group: S-Trains Message: 21769 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: 3-trains around the tree?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21770 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: Re: Docksider again
Group: S-Trains Message: 21771 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: PUTT/Rex 0-4-0 docksider
Group: S-Trains Message: 21772 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: Paul....Heres what I got at the meet
Group: S-Trains Message: 21773 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: Hallmark's Harley 1958 FL-Duo-Glide
Group: S-Trains Message: 21774 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: Re: Hallmark's Harley 1958 FL-Duo-Glide
Group: S-Trains Message: 21775 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: Allentown PA meet
Group: S-Trains Message: 21776 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: Not much AF on ebay...
Group: S-Trains Message: 21777 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: Yep! There is a lot of AF on ebay!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21778 From: John Bandstra Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: Faster on AC than DC
Group: S-Trains Message: 21779 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: Speaking of a 322
Group: S-Trains Message: 21780 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: GILBRT /FLYER HO SET
Group: S-Trains Message: 21781 From: Gerry Evans Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: WORM
Group: S-Trains Message: 21782 From: eric.reis Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: Re: WORM
Group: S-Trains Message: 21783 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: worm
Group: S-Trains Message: 21784 From: srgriggs Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: Re: Fact or Urban legend?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21785 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21786 From: Tom Pennington Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: Re: worm
Group: S-Trains Message: 21787 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: Re: WORM
Group: S-Trains Message: 21788 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: Re: worm
Group: S-Trains Message: 21789 From: SSabino39@aol.com Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: Wood for train board
Group: S-Trains Message: 21790 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: Train show pictures
Group: S-Trains Message: 21791 From: David Dewey Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: Re: Wood for train board
Group: S-Trains Message: 21792 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: My On30 Christmas set....bummer!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21793 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: Re: Wood for train board
Group: S-Trains Message: 21794 From: Walt Danylak Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Re: My On30 Christmas set....bummer!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21795 From: knockbill Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: potential virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 21796 From: knockbill Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: potential virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 21797 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Re: potential virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 21798 From: knockbill Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: 322
Group: S-Trains Message: 21799 From: knockbill Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: potential virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 21800 From: Roy Plotnick Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Fast Docksiders
Group: S-Trains Message: 21801 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: PA Engine
Group: S-Trains Message: 21802 From: SSabino39@aol.com Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Wood for train board
Group: S-Trains Message: 21803 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Retrofitting an AF 4-8-4
Group: S-Trains Message: 21804 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Re: My On30 Christmas set....bummer!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21805 From: Jim Armstrong Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Re: Timboy (Tim Brown)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21806 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Re: Timboy (Tim Brown)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21807 From: Ted Larson Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: moderator
Group: S-Trains Message: 21808 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Re: Wood for train board
Group: S-Trains Message: 21809 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Re: Wood for train board
Group: S-Trains Message: 21810 From: louis glumac Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Re: Timboy (Tim Brown)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21811 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Re: Wood for train board
Group: S-Trains Message: 21812 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Re: Wood for train board
Group: S-Trains Message: 21813 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: 4713 Chrome SET 470/471/473/ & 4 pass cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 21814 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1641
Group: S-Trains Message: 21815 From: Mark Preman Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: New Accessory Sale For S-Trains List
Group: S-Trains Message: 21816 From: afchoochoo Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: AF Parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 21817 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: North Shore 234 is IATR 33
Group: S-Trains Message: 21818 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: North Shore 234 is IATR 33
Group: S-Trains Message: 21819 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Faster on AC than DC
Group: S-Trains Message: 21820 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] RE: North Shore 234 is IATR 33
Group: S-Trains Message: 21821 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Faster on AC than DC question
Group: S-Trains Message: 21822 From: Mark Koenig Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Sets and boxes
Group: S-Trains Message: 21823 From: aag_rlg Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Wood for Train Board
Group: S-Trains Message: 21824 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Sets and boxes
Group: S-Trains Message: 21825 From: Ted Larson Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Headers
Group: S-Trains Message: 21826 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Wood for Train Board
Group: S-Trains Message: 21827 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Sets and boxes
Group: S-Trains Message: 21828 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Wood for Train Board
Group: S-Trains Message: 21829 From: Alex Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Faster on AC than DC question
Group: S-Trains Message: 21830 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Revolving Beacons
Group: S-Trains Message: 21831 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Revolving Beacons
Group: S-Trains Message: 21832 From: Bruce Papky Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Lionel Sawmill.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21833 From: Gary Chidester Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Back from Roswell.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21834 From: Gary Chidester Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Display shelves?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21835 From: Gary Chidester Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Display shelves?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21836 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Display shelves?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21837 From: Sam and Judy Williamson Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Revolving Beacons
Group: S-Trains Message: 21838 From: mlmarmer Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Display shelves?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21839 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Display shelves?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21840 From: JConn444@aol.com Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Display Shelves
Group: S-Trains Message: 21841 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Dept. Store 1950's AF layout for sale.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21842 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Revolving Beacons
Group: S-Trains Message: 21843 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Revolving Beacons
Group: S-Trains Message: 21844 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Rail Rax & Chalk trays....
Group: S-Trains Message: 21845 From: Victor Bereskin Date: 11/13/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1644
Group: S-Trains Message: 21846 From: Doug Peck Date: 11/13/2002
Subject: -stes and boxes
Group: S-Trains Message: 21847 From: David Date: 11/13/2002
Subject: Re: Sets and boxes
Group: S-Trains Message: 21848 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/13/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1644
Group: S-Trains Message: 21849 From: Don Thompson Date: 11/13/2002
Subject: Re: Train Fest report
Group: S-Trains Message: 21850 From: trzp1800 Date: 11/13/2002
Subject: ACSG Layout @ Neuse River Show - Raleigh
Group: S-Trains Message: 21851 From: Dayna Warner Date: 11/13/2002
Subject: Coming soon to your corner
Group: S-Trains Message: 21852 From: TCS Date: 11/13/2002
Subject: Info About A Hoax Within YahooGroups
Group: S-Trains Message: 21853 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/13/2002
Subject: Re: Info About A Hoax Within YahooGroups
Group: S-Trains Message: 21854 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/13/2002
Subject: Re: Faster on AC than DC question
Group: S-Trains Message: 21855 From: Gary Chidester Date: 11/13/2002
Subject: Thanks
Group: S-Trains Message: 21856 From: Spots350SL@aol.com Date: 11/13/2002
Subject: Train Display Case
Group: S-Trains Message: 21857 From: Dayna Warner Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: window project
Group: S-Trains Message: 21858 From: Don Thompson Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: Train Display Case
Group: S-Trains Message: 21859 From: mlmarmer Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: A.C. Gilbert
Group: S-Trains Message: 21860 From: mlmarmer Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: The Erector Set's Inventor, Working Hard at Play (washingtonpost.co
Group: S-Trains Message: 21861 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: Train Display Case
Group: S-Trains Message: 21862 From: David Dewey Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: A.C. Gilbert
Group: S-Trains Message: 21863 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: The Erector Set's Inventor, Working Hard at Play (washingtonpo.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21864 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Non train toys
Group: S-Trains Message: 21865 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: A.C. Gilbert
Group: S-Trains Message: 21866 From: Mark Koenig Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: 938 Caboose Trucks/Couplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 21867 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys
Group: S-Trains Message: 21868 From: jack nichol Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Original shipping box?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21869 From: Don Thompson Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] SHS Composite Hoppers
Group: S-Trains Message: 21870 From: Paul Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Train Shelf
Group: S-Trains Message: 21871 From: Steve Blancard Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: MTH Semaphore
Group: S-Trains Message: 21872 From: Paul Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Train Shelf - new link (oops)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21873 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys
Group: S-Trains Message: 21874 From: jack nichol Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: Original shipping box?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21875 From: JConn444@aol.com Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys American Bricks
Group: S-Trains Message: 21876 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: Train Shelf
Group: S-Trains Message: 21877 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys
Group: S-Trains Message: 21878 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Semaphore
Group: S-Trains Message: 21879 From: David Dewey Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: 938 Caboose Trucks/Couplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 21880 From: David Dewey Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys
Group: S-Trains Message: 21881 From: Bill Lane Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Southwind B & O EM-1
Group: S-Trains Message: 21882 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Semaphore
Group: S-Trains Message: 21883 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: "Portable" Layout Questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 21884 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Northerns
Group: S-Trains Message: 21885 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: "Portable" Layout Questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 21886 From: David Dewey Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: "Portable" Layout Questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 21887 From: stargate7@cox.net Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys American Bricks
Group: S-Trains Message: 21888 From: David Dewey Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys American Bricks
Group: S-Trains Message: 21889 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: Plastic toy bricks....
Group: S-Trains Message: 21890 From: David Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys American Bricks
Group: S-Trains Message: 21891 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Bob's Shelf was Re: [S-Trains] Train Shelf
Group: S-Trains Message: 21892 From: Knight, Gene Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys
Group: S-Trains Message: 21893 From: John G Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Semaphore
Group: S-Trains Message: 21894 From: theodore weiler Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: Plastic toy bricks....
Group: S-Trains Message: 21895 From: David Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys
Group: S-Trains Message: 21896 From: Ron Inscho Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: Plastic toy bricks....& other stuff Where they went ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21897 From: mark.p.baker@bt.com Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: KING'S CROSS RAILWAY BOOK FAIR
Group: S-Trains Message: 21898 From: Gregg Mummert Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: American Hi Rail Doodlebug
Group: S-Trains Message: 21899 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: CTT's Give-a-way...
Group: S-Trains Message: 21900 From: Ron Inscho Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: American Hi Rail Doodlebug
Group: S-Trains Message: 21901 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: American Hi Rail Doodlebug
Group: S-Trains Message: 21902 From: V KOSOBIECKI Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Non trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 21903 From: John G Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Semaphore
Group: S-Trains Message: 21904 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21905 From: mlmarmer Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Wronged Side of the Tracks (washingtonpost.com)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21906 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: Wronged Side of the Tracks (washingtonpost.com)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21907 From: David Dewey Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: Plastic toy bricks....& other stuff Where they went ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21908 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: Plastic toy bricks....& other stuff Where they went ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21909 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: Plastic toy bricks....& other stuff Where they went ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21910 From: Doug Peck Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: for Chris the Train-nut
Group: S-Trains Message: 21911 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Gearing Down the LTI?AF power truck.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21912 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys American Bricks
Group: S-Trains Message: 21913 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: plastic toy bricks
Group: S-Trains Message: 21914 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/16/2002
Subject: Talk about AF Trains....??
Group: S-Trains Message: 21915 From: Gregg Mummert Date: 11/16/2002
Subject: Re: American Hi Rail Doodlebug
Group: S-Trains Message: 21916 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/16/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys American Bricks
Group: S-Trains Message: 21917 From: becks@ia4u.net Date: 11/16/2002
Subject: American Hi Rail Doodlebug
Group: S-Trains Message: 21918 From: Al Paolozzi Date: 11/16/2002
Subject: Re: plastic toy bricks
Group: S-Trains Message: 21919 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/16/2002
Subject: bricks, logs, & Flyer...
Group: S-Trains Message: 21920 From: Bill Sandrus Date: 11/16/2002
Subject: remove me temporarily
Group: S-Trains Message: 21921 From: THOMAS E HILLERY Date: 11/16/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1648
Group: S-Trains Message: 21922 From: Ron Inscho Date: 11/16/2002
Subject: Hodgson List
Group: S-Trains Message: 21923 From: waldootten Date: 11/16/2002
Subject: Howdy from a newbie
Group: S-Trains Message: 21924 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/16/2002
Subject: Re: Howdy from a newbie
Group: S-Trains Message: 21925 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: For Doug Peck Hope this works
Group: S-Trains Message: 21926 From: David Dewey Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: Banned recipients--Was: For Doug Peck Hope this works
Group: S-Trains Message: 21927 From: Bob Tufts Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: Re: Original shipping box?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21928 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 21929 From: William Porter Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: Meters
Group: S-Trains Message: 21930 From: rkuepper Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: Re: Meters
Group: S-Trains Message: 21931 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: "Looking for a reason to switch to "S" gauge"..
Group: S-Trains Message: 21932 From: lou342ac Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: AM Switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 21933 From: Gregg Mummert Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: Re: American Hi Rail Doodlebug
Group: S-Trains Message: 21934 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: Re: AM Switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 21935 From: mlmarmer Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: Bob Board Layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 21936 From: Michael T Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: Atlantic shells
Group: S-Trains Message: 21937 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: Plastic Atlantic shells
Group: S-Trains Message: 21938 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: K-Line S Gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 21939 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: Re: "Looking for a reason to switch to "S" gauge"..
Group: S-Trains Message: 21940 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Re: AM Switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 21941 From: wintermutedm Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Re: "Looking for a reason to switch to "S" gauge"..
Group: S-Trains Message: 21942 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Re: "Looking for a reason to switch to "S" gauge"..
Group: S-Trains Message: 21943 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Re: Original shipping box?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21944 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line S Gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 21945 From: Knight, Gene Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Availabilty of American Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 21946 From: mark.p.baker@bt.com Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: KING'S CROSS RAILWAY BOOK FAIR
Group: S-Trains Message: 21947 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Re: Availabilty of American Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 21948 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1650
Group: S-Trains Message: 21949 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: More on K-Line S Gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 21950 From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Re: More on K-Line S Gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 21951 From: AF336 Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Fw: Check out the Christmas Express link
Group: S-Trains Message: 21952 From: david.avedesian@limbachinc.com Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Thanksgiving in Jackson, MI
Group: S-Trains Message: 21953 From: AF336 Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Check out the Christmas Express link
Group: S-Trains Message: 21954 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Re: Howdy from a newbie
Group: S-Trains Message: 21955 From: Steve Blancard Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Dead switch
Group: S-Trains Message: 21956 From: David Dewey Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line S Gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 21957 From: schnoodely_odiliy_o Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: I'm in Atlanta
Group: S-Trains Message: 21958 From: Dan Brindell Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Re: Availabilty of American Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 21959 From: eric.reis Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: 2 extra cars for sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 21960 From: jack nichol Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: 586 station
Group: S-Trains Message: 21961 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line S Gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 21962 From: Victor Bereskin Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1650
Group: S-Trains Message: 21963 From: SMASTER636@aol.com Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: 293/21099 Steam Locomotive
Group: S-Trains Message: 21964 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: Re: 293/21099 Steam Locomotive
Group: S-Trains Message: 21965 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: Re: 293/21099 Steam Locomotive
Group: S-Trains Message: 21966 From: Alex Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: Re: Dead switch
Group: S-Trains Message: 21967 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1651
Group: S-Trains Message: 21968 From: knockbill Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: dead switch
Group: S-Trains Message: 21969 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: 283/21099
Group: S-Trains Message: 21970 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: Re: dead switch
Group: S-Trains Message: 21971 From: Jay E. Mellon Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: For Sale - On30 Set
Group: S-Trains Message: 21972 From: Steve Blancard Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: Dead switch? It's alive!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21973 From: Steve Blancard Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: Magnet wire source
Group: S-Trains Message: 21974 From: THOMAS E HILLERY Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1651
Group: S-Trains Message: 21975 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: Backdrop scenes
Group: S-Trains Message: 21976 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 21977 From: HOWARD WESLEYIII Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: Gargraves S Gauge Switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 21978 From: Gary Chidester Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: This has got to be rare?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21979 From: Doug Peck Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] MicroMark
Group: S-Trains Message: 21980 From: JConn444@aol.com Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: 1/64 Scale Cars at K-Mart
Group: S-Trains Message: 21981 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: Re: This has got to be rare?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21982 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: Gabe
Group: S-Trains Message: 21983 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: Re: Gargraves S Gauge Switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 21984 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: Re: This has got to be rare?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21985 From: Wayne and Alice Beachy Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: Train Contest
Group: S-Trains Message: 21986 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: A. F. Rarity
Group: S-Trains Message: 21987 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: 755 Talking Station
Group: S-Trains Message: 21988 From: TCS Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals
Group: S-Trains Message: 21989 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: Can motors for American Flyer Diesel Locos
Group: S-Trains Message: 21990 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Re: This has got to be rare?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21991 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: I want my smoke back
Group: S-Trains Message: 21992 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Re: I want my smoke back
Group: S-Trains Message: 21993 From: IronHorse Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Modeling tools
Group: S-Trains Message: 21994 From: dwightlehnhoff Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: DC smoke
Group: S-Trains Message: 21995 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Re: I want my smoke back
Group: S-Trains Message: 21996 From: Rhett T. George Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Dead switch
Group: S-Trains Message: 21997 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys American Bricks
Group: S-Trains Message: 21998 From: schnoodely_odiliy_o Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Thick as a Brick
Group: S-Trains Message: 21999 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Getting more smoke
Group: S-Trains Message: 22000 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Re: Getting more smoke
Group: S-Trains Message: 22001 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: DC & Smoke
Group: S-Trains Message: 22002 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Re: Getting more smoke
Group: S-Trains Message: 22003 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Re: Thick as a Brick
Group: S-Trains Message: 22004 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: diode bridge questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 22005 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: GETTING MORE SMOKE BLANTANT AD
Group: S-Trains Message: 22006 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Re: This has got to be rare?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22007 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] diode bridge questions]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22008 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Tim Browns comments on Smoke
Group: S-Trains Message: 22009 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: AC/DC/DPDT/AC common
Group: S-Trains Message: 22010 From: Don Abrams Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Warning -- ebay post -- Delete, Delete, Delete!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22011 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Re: Warning -- ebay post -- Delete OR READ
Group: S-Trains Message: 22012 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Re: warning ebay post
Group: S-Trains Message: 22013 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: tool car
Group: S-Trains Message: 22014 From: mlmarmer Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Girder & Panel and Bridge & Turnpike Heaven - Photo Gallery
Group: S-Trains Message: 22015 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: AD FOR LIONEL BRIDGE
Group: S-Trains Message: 22016 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: center tap
Group: S-Trains Message: 22017 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Re: center tap
Group: S-Trains Message: 22018 From: Michael T Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Custom Locos
Group: S-Trains Message: 22019 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Re: tool car
Group: S-Trains Message: 22020 From: jahoozdumm Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: Can motors for American Flyer Diesel Locos
Group: S-Trains Message: 22021 From: mark.p.baker@bt.com Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: King's Cross Railway Book Fair
Group: S-Trains Message: 22022 From: castironv8@aol.com Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Bob Board Layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 22023 From: castironv8@aol.com Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Magnet wire source
Group: S-Trains Message: 22024 From: Mark Preman Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: S Gauge Thomas the Tank Engine
Group: S-Trains Message: 22025 From: castironv8@aol.com Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Bob Board Layout II
Group: S-Trains Message: 22026 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: Outdoor Model Railroading in the North Country
Group: S-Trains Message: 22027 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: 293/21099 Steam Locomotive
Group: S-Trains Message: 22028 From: david.avedesian@limbachinc.com Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Desperately Seeking Layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 22029 From: Lori Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: tinkering
Group: S-Trains Message: 22030 From: Alan C Udy Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1654
Group: S-Trains Message: 22031 From: mlmarmer Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: Bob Board Layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 22032 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Smoke & AC/DC
Group: S-Trains Message: 22033 From: mark.p.baker@bt.com Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: King's Cross Railway Book Fair
Group: S-Trains Message: 22034 From: Alex Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: Magnet wire source
Group: S-Trains Message: 22035 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: IATR 53 and TTC 2
Group: S-Trains Message: 22036 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: 1/64 Scale Cars at K-Mart
Group: S-Trains Message: 22037 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: Smoke & AC/DC
Group: S-Trains Message: 22038 From: Don Abrams Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: Warning -- ebay post -- Delete, Delete, Delete!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22039 From: schnoodely_odiliy_o Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: DC Polarity
Group: S-Trains Message: 22040 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Tool Car
Group: S-Trains Message: 22041 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 22042 From: Walt Danylak Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: Tool Car
Group: S-Trains Message: 22043 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: Tool car
Group: S-Trains Message: 22044 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: DC Polarity
Group: S-Trains Message: 22045 From: David Dewey Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: Magnet wire source
Group: S-Trains Message: 22046 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: DC Polarity
Group: S-Trains Message: 22047 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: DC Polarity
Group: S-Trains Message: 22048 From: Alex Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: Magnet wire source
Group: S-Trains Message: 22049 From: Spots350SL@aol.com Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: Magnet wire source
Group: S-Trains Message: 22050 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: S-Video Volume VI
Group: S-Trains Message: 22051 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/23/2002
Subject: Turnouts & Switches (asking for your input)
Group: S-Trains Message: 22052 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 11/23/2002
Subject: Diesel can motor follow up
Group: S-Trains Message: 22053 From: Bill Lane Date: 11/23/2002
Subject: Waiting for the Southwind EM-1
Group: S-Trains Message: 22054 From: David Dewey Date: 11/23/2002
Subject: Re: Smoke & AC/DC--doin' it ACG's way
Group: S-Trains Message: 22055 From: Tom Pennington Date: 11/23/2002
Subject: Re: Girder & Panel and Bridge & Turnpike Heaven - Photo Gallery
Group: S-Trains Message: 22056 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 11/23/2002
Subject: FREDERICK HOME TRAIN SHOW
Group: S-Trains Message: 22057 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/23/2002
Subject: replacement circuit breakers
Group: S-Trains Message: 22058 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 11/24/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1657
Group: S-Trains Message: 22059 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 11/24/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 22060 From: tomsmitty2001 Date: 11/24/2002
Subject: test
Group: S-Trains Message: 22061 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/24/2002
Subject: turnout and switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 22062 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/24/2002
Subject: Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 22063 From: Rhett T. George Date: 11/25/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1656
Group: S-Trains Message: 22064 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 11/25/2002
Subject: LVM Poultry Car - HELP!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22065 From: Gary Chidester Date: 11/25/2002
Subject: Running two locos?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22066 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/25/2002
Subject: Re: Running two locos?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22067 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 11/25/2002
Subject: IATR 53
Group: S-Trains Message: 22068 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/25/2002
Subject: The secrit of Sam the Semaphore
Group: S-Trains Message: 22069 From: Charles Messinger Date: 11/25/2002
Subject: 751 log loader
Group: S-Trains Message: 22070 From: John G Date: 11/25/2002
Subject: Re: The secret of Sam the Semaphore
Group: S-Trains Message: 22071 From: Uncle Thor Date: 11/26/2002
Subject: New Fun Layouts for Kids Posted
Group: S-Trains Message: 22072 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/26/2002
Subject: Was Gilbert pure?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22073 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/26/2002
Subject: purity
Group: S-Trains Message: 22074 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/26/2002
Subject: Re: New Fun Layouts for Kids Posted
Group: S-Trains Message: 22075 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/26/2002
Subject: Re: purity
Group: S-Trains Message: 22076 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/26/2002
Subject: Clarification on Gilbert pure
Group: S-Trains Message: 22077 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/26/2002
Subject: Re: purity
Group: S-Trains Message: 22078 From: trainman634 Date: 11/26/2002
Subject: Windows for caboose
Group: S-Trains Message: 22079 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 11/26/2002
Subject: Oil Depot Photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 22080 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/26/2002
Subject: Re: Oil Depot Photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 22081 From: theheadliner Date: 11/26/2002
Subject: Re: 1/64 Scale Cars at K-Mart
Group: S-Trains Message: 22082 From: Knight, Gene Date: 11/26/2002
Subject: boilerplate problem on a 312
Group: S-Trains Message: 22083 From: David Dewey Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Re: Windows for caboose
Group: S-Trains Message: 22084 From: Don Thompson Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Re: SHS China Report
Group: S-Trains Message: 22085 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Re: SHS China Report
Group: S-Trains Message: 22086 From: Don Abrams Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Purity?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22087 From: Steve Blancard Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Any train shops in Hawaii ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22088 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1660
Group: S-Trains Message: 22089 From: Steve Blancard Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: LED Headlamp...again
Group: S-Trains Message: 22090 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: best wishes to all
Group: S-Trains Message: 22091 From: knockbill Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: best wishes to all
Group: S-Trains Message: 22092 From: knockbill Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: best wishes to all
Group: S-Trains Message: 22093 From: waldootten Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: LWT12 in Frederick layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 22094 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Re: FREDERICK HOME TRAIN SHOW
Group: S-Trains Message: 22095 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1660
Group: S-Trains Message: 22096 From: Steve Blancard Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: The Tioga Lumber Co. gets a new teakettle
Group: S-Trains Message: 22097 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1660
Group: S-Trains Message: 22098 From: Bill Lane Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Southwind S Scale B & O EM-1
Group: S-Trains Message: 22099 From: Tom Pennington Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Pikemaster Adaptor Pins
Group: S-Trains Message: 22100 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1660
Group: S-Trains Message: 22101 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Re: Pikemaster Adaptor Pins
Group: S-Trains Message: 22102 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Re: The Tioga Lumber Co. gets a new teakettle
Group: S-Trains Message: 22103 From: TCS Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: YAHOO GROUPS - Sorry off topic post - Please read - Don't delete
Group: S-Trains Message: 22104 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Thanksgiving wishes
Group: S-Trains Message: 22105 From: TCS Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Re: [freightcarworld] YAHOO GROUPS - Sorry off topic post - Please
Group: S-Trains Message: 22106 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Re: The Tioga Lumber Co. gets a new teakettle
Group: S-Trains Message: 22107 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 11/28/2002
Subject: Height
Group: S-Trains Message: 22108 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/28/2002
Subject: Re: Height
Group: S-Trains Message: 22109 From: Doug Peck Date: 11/28/2002
Subject: Re: PM adaptor pins, & cork roadbed
Group: S-Trains Message: 22110 From: David Dewey Date: 11/28/2002
Subject: Happy T-Day !
Group: S-Trains Message: 22111 From: mlmarmer Date: 11/28/2002
Subject: Re: Height
Group: S-Trains Message: 22112 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/28/2002
Subject: Re: Happy T-Day !
Group: S-Trains Message: 22113 From: Ted Larson Date: 11/28/2002
Subject: Mainline Modeler
Group: S-Trains Message: 22114 From: afjeff_56 Date: 11/28/2002
Subject: Turkey Day!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22115 From: Mark Preman Date: 11/29/2002
Subject: Reproduction Reproducers Are In!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22116 From: William Porter Date: 11/29/2002
Subject: Test Message
Group: S-Trains Message: 22117 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 11/29/2002
Subject: Stocking Stuffer
Group: S-Trains Message: 22118 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 11/29/2002
Subject: S-Video Vol. VI...OOPS
Group: S-Trains Message: 22119 From: Mark Preman Date: 11/29/2002
Subject: American Flyer trains For sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 22120 From: Peter Ervin Date: 11/29/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1662
Group: S-Trains Message: 22121 From: Roy Inman Date: 11/29/2002
Subject: CTT layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 22122 From: Jim Armstrong Date: 11/29/2002
Subject: Set box packing scheme for 4904T set
Group: S-Trains Message: 22123 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/29/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1662
Group: S-Trains Message: 22124 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 11/29/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 22125 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: K-Line RTR
Group: S-Trains Message: 22126 From: castironv8@aol.com Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Height
Group: S-Trains Message: 22127 From: John Swinderman Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Buying New Track
Group: S-Trains Message: 22128 From: John Swinderman Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Buying New Track
Group: S-Trains Message: 22129 From: Walt Danylak Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: K-Line Big Boy
Group: S-Trains Message: 22130 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Re: Height
Group: S-Trains Message: 22131 From: seg60133 Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Leventon
Group: S-Trains Message: 22132 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Anther "S" Discussion on the OGR forum
Group: S-Trains Message: 22133 From: eric.reis Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Re: Leventon
Group: S-Trains Message: 22134 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Re: Buying New Track
Group: S-Trains Message: 22135 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Re: Buying New Track
Group: S-Trains Message: 22136 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line Big Boy
Group: S-Trains Message: 22137 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Train Table Height
Group: S-Trains Message: 22138 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Caig
Group: S-Trains Message: 22139 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Re: Train Table Height
Group: S-Trains Message: 22140 From: Ted Larson Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: FLAT
Group: S-Trains Message: 22141 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Re: Caig
Group: S-Trains Message: 22142 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Caig bonus
Group: S-Trains Message: 22143 From: trzp1800 Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Re: Buying New Track
Group: S-Trains Message: 22144 From: Neimanis,V. [NCR] Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Re: Bench Height
Group: S-Trains Message: 22145 From: David Dewey Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Re: FLAT
Group: S-Trains Message: 22146 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Re: Caig
Group: S-Trains Message: 22147 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Microfiber Cloths
Group: S-Trains Message: 22148 From: David Dewey Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Re: Caig--A Testemonial
Group: S-Trains Message: 22149 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Re: Caig--A Testemonial
Group: S-Trains Message: 22150 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 22151 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Re: Caig--A Testemonial
Group: S-Trains Message: 22152 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: MMT/Rusti/Downs Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 22153 From: David Dewey Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Re: Caig--A Testemonial--and a question!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22154 From: Robert Jackson Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] FLAT
Group: S-Trains Message: 22155 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1664
Group: S-Trains Message: 22156 From: jahoozdumm Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: That time again...
Group: S-Trains Message: 22157 From: Walt Danylak Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line Big Boy
Group: S-Trains Message: 22158 From: Pat O'Sullivan Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: American Flyer Items for Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 22159 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: New link to LVM Oil Depot Photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 22160 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: Caig Follow-Up
Group: S-Trains Message: 22161 From: Ted Larson Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: loco amps
Group: S-Trains Message: 22162 From: Peter Ervin Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: Recommended switches for scale and hi-rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 22163 From: Lance McCold Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: S-scale car layout?!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22164 From: Ted Larson Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: Re: loco amps
Group: S-Trains Message: 22165 From: jnr59@aol.com Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: American Models 80' Streamline U.P. Coach Wanted buy/trade
Group: S-Trains Message: 22166 From: Doug Peck Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: Re: MTH unpainted figure sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 22167 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: Re: Recommended switches for scale and hi-rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 22168 From: Roy Inman Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: Re: S-scale car layout?!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22169 From: Don Thompson Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: Re HallMark 1958 FL Duo-Glide Harley-Davidson Motorcyle
Group: S-Trains Message: 22170 From: eric.reis Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: Re: Re HallMark 1958 FL Duo-Glide Harley-Davidson Motorcyle
Group: S-Trains Message: 22171 From: Dayna Warner Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: Hallmark/ 1954 Ford Pickup/ Pennsy
Group: S-Trains Message: 22172 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/3/2002
Subject: Re: S-scale car layout?!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22173 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/3/2002
Subject: Re: Re HallMark 1958 FL Duo-Glide Harley-Davidson Motorcyle
Group: S-Trains Message: 22174 From: Ingram-James4 Date: 12/3/2002
Subject: AF Atlantic Pnt-to-Pnt Display
Group: S-Trains Message: 22175 From: Dayna Warner Date: 12/3/2002
Subject: Releases at show this weekend
Group: S-Trains Message: 22176 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/3/2002
Subject: Photos of a new module
Group: S-Trains Message: 22177 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/3/2002
Subject: Photos of a new module
Group: S-Trains Message: 22178 From: Mike Vana Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Pull mor tire bands
Group: S-Trains Message: 22179 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Front pilot trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 22180 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Re: Front pilot trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 22181 From: David Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Re: Front pilot trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 22182 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Re: Front pilot trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 22183 From: David Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Re: Front pilot trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 22184 From: rfgiardina Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Re: Pull mor tire bands
Group: S-Trains Message: 22185 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Re: Front pilot trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 22186 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Layout height
Group: S-Trains Message: 22187 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Hallmark Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 22188 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Caig Follow-Up
Group: S-Trains Message: 22189 From: IronHorse Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Plaster HAAaalp
Group: S-Trains Message: 22190 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Re: Plaster HAAaalp
Group: S-Trains Message: 22191 From: Knight, Gene Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: plaster help
Group: S-Trains Message: 22192 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Tonka S gauge Vehicles???
Group: S-Trains Message: 22193 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Layout height
Group: S-Trains Message: 22194 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Steam Loco Tester
Group: S-Trains Message: 22195 From: jahoozdumm Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Re: Plaster HAAaalp
Group: S-Trains Message: 22196 From: Spots350SL@aol.com Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Re: Plaster HAAaalp
Group: S-Trains Message: 22197 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/5/2002
Subject: Please get back to trains...
Group: S-Trains Message: 22198 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/5/2002
Subject: Website is Down (again ?!%#*&@#)
Group: S-Trains Message: 22199 From: IronHorse Date: 12/5/2002
Subject: Re: Plaster HAAaalp
Group: S-Trains Message: 22200 From: Robert Jackson Date: 12/5/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Plaster HAAaalp
Group: S-Trains Message: 22201 From: lou342ac Date: 12/5/2002
Subject: Re: Plaster HAAaalp
Group: S-Trains Message: 22202 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 12/5/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1667
Group: S-Trains Message: 22203 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 12/5/2002
Subject: Plaster drying question
Group: S-Trains Message: 22204 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/5/2002
Subject: Plaster
Group: S-Trains Message: 22205 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/6/2002
Subject: Caig
Group: S-Trains Message: 22206 From: Ted Larson Date: 12/6/2002
Subject: General "plaster" info
Group: S-Trains Message: 22207 From: castironv8@aol.com Date: 12/6/2002
Subject: Plaster HAAaalp
Group: S-Trains Message: 22208 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/6/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 22209 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/6/2002
Subject: Caig Follow-up
Group: S-Trains Message: 22210 From: IronHorse Date: 12/7/2002
Subject: Trestle
Group: S-Trains Message: 22211 From: Ted Larson Date: 12/7/2002
Subject: module gotchas
Group: S-Trains Message: 22212 From: Paul Date: 12/7/2002
Subject: Chat Room Relocated
Group: S-Trains Message: 22213 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/7/2002
Subject: Caig - Closing the list
Group: S-Trains Message: 22214 From: Ted Larson Date: 12/7/2002
Subject: Module Planning Question
Group: S-Trains Message: 22215 From: Steve Roche Date: 12/7/2002
Subject: 752 Seaboard Coal Loader
Group: S-Trains Message: 22216 From: srgriggs Date: 12/8/2002
Subject: Re: module gotchas
Group: S-Trains Message: 22217 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/8/2002
Subject: Re: module gotchas (noise)
Group: S-Trains Message: 22218 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/8/2002
Subject: 752 seaboard coaler field wiring
Group: S-Trains Message: 22219 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/8/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 22220 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 12/8/2002
Subject: Parts help
Group: S-Trains Message: 22221 From: elinashusband Date: 12/9/2002
Subject: Replacement transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 22222 From: splitdorf@1bigred.com Date: 12/9/2002
Subject: Re: Replacement transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 22223 From: John Foley Date: 12/9/2002
Subject: SHS E-7's
Group: S-Trains Message: 22224 From: John Foley Date: 12/9/2002
Subject: Fwd: [S-Scale] SHS E-7's
Group: S-Trains Message: 22225 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/9/2002
Subject: Caig - finalizing
Group: S-Trains Message: 22226 From: ljack70117@adelphia.net Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] AM Alco FA2 to FA1 conversion
Group: S-Trains Message: 22227 From: Ted Larson Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: forwarded scenery note
Group: S-Trains Message: 22228 From: Roy Inman Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: Amtrak
Group: S-Trains Message: 22229 From: John Foley Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: Virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 22230 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: The Man who Saved Christams
Group: S-Trains Message: 22231 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: Loader Noise
Group: S-Trains Message: 22232 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: loader noise
Group: S-Trains Message: 22233 From: David Engle Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 22234 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 22235 From: mythunder2000 Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: "DC" loco question
Group: S-Trains Message: 22236 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: Re: "DC" loco question
Group: S-Trains Message: 22237 From: Dan Brindell Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: Re: Replacement transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 22238 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: replacement transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 22239 From: Don Thompson Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: Re: replacement transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 22240 From: Thomas Stoltz Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: digest
Group: S-Trains Message: 22241 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: Re: replacement transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 22242 From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: Re: replacement transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 22243 From: elinashusband Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: Re: replacement transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 22244 From: Dan Brindell Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: Re: replacement transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 22245 From: John Foley Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: Virus
Group: S-Trains Message: 22246 From: lampert5@earthlink.net Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: A Storey about A.C. Gilbert
Group: S-Trains Message: 22247 From: allan V EISENHAUR Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: Digest
Group: S-Trains Message: 22248 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: Re: A Storey about A.C. Gilbert
Group: S-Trains Message: 22249 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: Re: replacement transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 22250 From: roberte613@aol.com Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: Re: Replacement Transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 22251 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert film
Group: S-Trains Message: 22252 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: link coupler device
Group: S-Trains Message: 22253 From: Robert E. Yablonski Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1671
Group: S-Trains Message: 22254 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: Re: replacement transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 22255 From: aglorince Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: train show pittsburgh, pa
Group: S-Trains Message: 22256 From: William Lange Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: 2 Trains on 1 loop
Group: S-Trains Message: 22257 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Train Show Saturday
Group: S-Trains Message: 22258 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Baggage loader
Group: S-Trains Message: 22259 From: louis glumac Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Re: train show pittsburgh, pa
Group: S-Trains Message: 22260 From: afsgauge@aol.com Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: AC Gilbert Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 22261 From: Roy Plotnick Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Re: link coupler device
Group: S-Trains Message: 22262 From: Jim Armstrong Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: "Device" for Keepin link couplers hooked together
Group: S-Trains Message: 22263 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Re: "Device" for Keepin link couplers hooked together
Group: S-Trains Message: 22264 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Caig Final
Group: S-Trains Message: 22265 From: Neil A Becker Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Replacement Transformer & CBS Movie
Group: S-Trains Message: 22266 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Caig Communications
Group: S-Trains Message: 22267 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: link couplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 22268 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Re: Baggage loader
Group: S-Trains Message: 22269 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Re: link couplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 22270 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: 770 loading platform
Group: S-Trains Message: 22271 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Re: 770 loading platform
Group: S-Trains Message: 22272 From: Jim Armstrong Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: 501T set dilemma
Group: S-Trains Message: 22273 From: rpd5@aol.com Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Connector for Link Couplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 22274 From: pushpinss Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop
Group: S-Trains Message: 22275 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Re: 501T set dilemma
Group: S-Trains Message: 22276 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Re: 770 loading platform
Group: S-Trains Message: 22277 From: John G Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Melting Plastic from engine's headlight light bulbs
Group: S-Trains Message: 22278 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Re: Melting Plastic from engine's headlight light bulbs
Group: S-Trains Message: 22279 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: melting plastic from engine's headlight bulb
Group: S-Trains Message: 22280 From: Jim Armstrong Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: 302 loco followon question
Group: S-Trains Message: 22281 From: David Dewey Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert film
Group: S-Trains Message: 22282 From: David Dewey Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Re: 770 loading platform
Group: S-Trains Message: 22283 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Christmas car Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1672
Group: S-Trains Message: 22284 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Sawmill Lumber
Group: S-Trains Message: 22285 From: David Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: Melting Plastic from engine's headlight light bulbs
Group: S-Trains Message: 22286 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Train America Studios
Group: S-Trains Message: 22287 From: rodgers_carl Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop
Group: S-Trains Message: 22288 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop
Group: S-Trains Message: 22289 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: Transformer phasing
Group: S-Trains Message: 22290 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Black Power
Group: S-Trains Message: 22291 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: 770 loading platform
Group: S-Trains Message: 22292 From: rodgers_carl Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop
Group: S-Trains Message: 22293 From: rodgers_carl Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: Sawmill Lumber
Group: S-Trains Message: 22294 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: TA Studios
Group: S-Trains Message: 22295 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: NY Times article, Today's issue
Group: S-Trains Message: 22296 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop
Group: S-Trains Message: 22297 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: TA Studios
Group: S-Trains Message: 22298 From: wintermutedm Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge Thomas the Tank Engine
Group: S-Trains Message: 22299 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop
Group: S-Trains Message: 22300 From: tomsmitty2001 Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: 770 baggage loader
Group: S-Trains Message: 22301 From: rodgers_carl Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop
Group: S-Trains Message: 22302 From: rkuepper Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: Train America Studios
Group: S-Trains Message: 22303 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: 2 trains on one loop
Group: S-Trains Message: 22304 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: American Flyer with TMCC
Group: S-Trains Message: 22305 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Crossing gate
Group: S-Trains Message: 22306 From: William Lange Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: 2 Trains on 1 loop
Group: S-Trains Message: 22307 From: Bill Lane Date: 12/14/2002
Subject: Southwind Models update
Group: S-Trains Message: 22308 From: rfgiardina Date: 12/14/2002
Subject: Re: 2 trains on one loop
Group: S-Trains Message: 22309 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 12/14/2002
Subject: New page added dedicated to S-Gauge TMCC
Group: S-Trains Message: 22310 From: BARRY SEEL Date: 12/14/2002
Subject: S gauge layout on ebay
Group: S-Trains Message: 22311 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/14/2002
Subject: Re: S gauge layout on ebay
Group: S-Trains Message: 22312 From: Michael T Date: 12/14/2002
Subject: Corvette transporter 24578
Group: S-Trains Message: 22313 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 12/14/2002
Subject: 770 Loader "Packages"
Group: S-Trains Message: 22314 From: Alan Bennett Date: 12/15/2002
Subject: S gauge trains at the Oregon State Capitol
Group: S-Trains Message: 22315 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 12/15/2002
Subject: Gilbert 1951 Catalog Online
Group: S-Trains Message: 22316 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/15/2002
Subject: Gilbert special
Group: S-Trains Message: 22317 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 12/15/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert 1951 Catalog Online
Group: S-Trains Message: 22318 From: Dennis Back Date: 12/15/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert 1951 Catalog Online QUESTION
Group: S-Trains Message: 22319 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/15/2002
Subject: Good News
Group: S-Trains Message: 22320 From: louis glumac Date: 12/15/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert special
Group: S-Trains Message: 22321 From: trainman634 Date: 12/15/2002
Subject: American Flyer Reproduction Boxes
Group: S-Trains Message: 22322 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/15/2002
Subject: Gilbert Special
Group: S-Trains Message: 22323 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 12/15/2002
Subject: Gilbert Special
Group: S-Trains Message: 22324 From: David Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert special
Group: S-Trains Message: 22325 From: Steve Blancard Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert special
Group: S-Trains Message: 22326 From: Doug Peck Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer Reproduction Boxes
Group: S-Trains Message: 22327 From: JConn444@aol.com Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Sunday Night Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 22328 From: Mike Vana Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: 1951 catalog?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22329 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Chat room
Group: S-Trains Message: 22330 From: Roy Inman Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert special
Group: S-Trains Message: 22331 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: Chat room
Group: S-Trains Message: 22332 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: 1951 catalog?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22333 From: stanley Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: Chat room
Group: S-Trains Message: 22334 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Track trips, electronic
Group: S-Trains Message: 22335 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: 1951 catalog?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22336 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: 1951 catalog? NO 1952!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22337 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: Track trips, electronic
Group: S-Trains Message: 22338 From: Jim Armstrong Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: partial boxes
Group: S-Trains Message: 22339 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: AOL8 and PHP Chat Room
Group: S-Trains Message: 22340 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Oil Depot Photos Posted to the S-Trains Gallery
Group: S-Trains Message: 22341 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: 2 trains on one loop
Group: S-Trains Message: 22342 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop
Group: S-Trains Message: 22343 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: Oil Depot Photos Posted to the S-Trains Gallery
Group: S-Trains Message: 22344 From: rodgers_carl Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Real or Repro?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22345 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: 761 Semaphore
Group: S-Trains Message: 22346 From: Bull Gator Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: Oil Depot Photos Posted to the S-Trains Gallery
Group: S-Trains Message: 22347 From: Paul Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Cry for Help!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22348 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Gilbert movie
Group: S-Trains Message: 22349 From: William Lange Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop
Group: S-Trains Message: 22350 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert movie
Group: S-Trains Message: 22351 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert Movie
Group: S-Trains Message: 22352 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1678
Group: S-Trains Message: 22353 From: David Dewey Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert Movie
Group: S-Trains Message: 22354 From: John Gibson Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: What is this stuff & how to attach bulbs (X-post)
Group: S-Trains Message: 22355 From: David Dewey Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert Movie
Group: S-Trains Message: 22356 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop
Group: S-Trains Message: 22357 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: MODEL RAILROAD POWER
Group: S-Trains Message: 22358 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1678
Group: S-Trains Message: 22359 From: Bull Gator Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Re: Oil Depot Photos Posted to the S-Trains Gallery
Group: S-Trains Message: 22360 From: jnr59@aol.com Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: '37 Ford Convertible in 1/64?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22361 From: theodore weiler Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] '37 Ford Convertible in 1/64?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22362 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop
Group: S-Trains Message: 22363 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Re: Oil Depot Photos Posted to the S-Trains Gallery
Group: S-Trains Message: 22364 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Re: 770 loading platform
Group: S-Trains Message: 22365 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: chain link fence
Group: S-Trains Message: 22366 From: fleskovitz@aol.com Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Gilbert movie
Group: S-Trains Message: 22367 From: Knight, Gene Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: plastic repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 22368 From: Gerry Siegel Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Re: plastic repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 22369 From: knockbill Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: plastic repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 22370 From: Knight, Gene Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: thanks!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22371 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1679
Group: S-Trains Message: 22372 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Columbus, OH Area
Group: S-Trains Message: 22373 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert Movie
Group: S-Trains Message: 22374 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: F-7 Offer
Group: S-Trains Message: 22375 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Water Tower
Group: S-Trains Message: 22376 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 22377 From: IronHorse Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: chain link fence
Group: S-Trains Message: 22378 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Gilbert 1949 Catalog now online...
Group: S-Trains Message: 22379 From: WNHOLCOMB@aol.com Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Florida Train Shows
Group: S-Trains Message: 22380 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: Florida Train Shows
Group: S-Trains Message: 22381 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert 1949 Catalog now online...
Group: S-Trains Message: 22382 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert 1949 Catalog now online...
Group: S-Trains Message: 22383 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: AF catalogs on line
Group: S-Trains Message: 22384 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Real or Repro?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22385 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: Real or Repro?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22386 From: John G Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: MODEL RAILROAD POWER
Group: S-Trains Message: 22387 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: Real or Repro?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22388 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: AF catalogs on line
Group: S-Trains Message: 22389 From: eric.reis Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: S stuff I have for sale on ebay
Group: S-Trains Message: 22390 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: MTH Checkerboard Tower
Group: S-Trains Message: 22391 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Checkerboard Tower
Group: S-Trains Message: 22392 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Checkerboard Tower
Group: S-Trains Message: 22393 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Checkerboard Tower
Group: S-Trains Message: 22394 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Checkerboard Tower
Group: S-Trains Message: 22395 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Checkerboard Tower
Group: S-Trains Message: 22396 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Checkerboard Tower
Group: S-Trains Message: 22397 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Christmas Trains are finally running!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22398 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: HEY.....BIG SALE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22399 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: By Popular demain, another year's catalog posted...
Group: S-Trains Message: 22400 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Re: By Popular demain, another year's catalog posted...
Group: S-Trains Message: 22401 From: Thomas Stoltz Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: detectors
Group: S-Trains Message: 22402 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Loop wiring
Group: S-Trains Message: 22403 From: Rhett T. George Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Control the volts
Group: S-Trains Message: 22404 From: keith kuzma Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: plastic buildings
Group: S-Trains Message: 22405 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Re: plastic buildings
Group: S-Trains Message: 22406 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Re: Real or Repro?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22407 From: eric reis Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Re: HEY.....BIG SALE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22408 From: eric reis Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Re: HEY.....BIG SALE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22409 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: holiday layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 22410 From: pushpinss Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Re: Real or Repro?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22411 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Re: HEY.....BIG SALE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22412 From: Paul Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Email Address Change - final notice
Group: S-Trains Message: 22413 From: John G Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Re: detectors
Group: S-Trains Message: 22414 From: Ted Larson Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: AF and S-MOD
Group: S-Trains Message: 22415 From: Dan Brindell Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Checkerboard Tower
Group: S-Trains Message: 22416 From: colleenandrob Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Question about AF 326 Hudson
Group: S-Trains Message: 22417 From: waldootten Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: AM track and insulated blocks
Group: S-Trains Message: 22418 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: AF scale wheel conversion parts???
Group: S-Trains Message: 22419 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: AF and S-MOD
Group: S-Trains Message: 22420 From: Mike Vana Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: AF Steam Loco Axles
Group: S-Trains Message: 22421 From: tomsmitty2001 Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: slipped drivers
Group: S-Trains Message: 22422 From: Rhett T. George Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Accessory power
Group: S-Trains Message: 22423 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: AF Steam Loco Axles
Group: S-Trains Message: 22424 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: AF Steam Loco Axles
Group: S-Trains Message: 22425 From: retiredradiodj Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: AF Smoke Oil
Group: S-Trains Message: 22426 From: Ron Inscho Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: AF Steam Loco Axles
Group: S-Trains Message: 22427 From: Roy Hoffman Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: AF and S-MOD
Group: S-Trains Message: 22428 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: loose drive wheels
Group: S-Trains Message: 22429 From: joe messinger Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Steamer axels
Group: S-Trains Message: 22430 From: trainman634 Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: American Flyer Uncouplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 22431 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer Uncouplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 22432 From: pushpinss Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: loose drive wheels
Group: S-Trains Message: 22433 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: New AF NP Boxcar...
Group: S-Trains Message: 22434 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer Uncouplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 22435 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: AF UNcouplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 22436 From: bilfrazier@aol.com Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: Rail joiners
Group: S-Trains Message: 22437 From: HOWARD WESLEYIII Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] AF UNcouplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 22438 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Royal Blue
Group: S-Trains Message: 22439 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: Pregnant Ducks
Group: S-Trains Message: 22440 From: lou342ac Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: Rail joiners
Group: S-Trains Message: 22441 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: In Search of Chicks!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22442 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: In Search of Chicks!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22443 From: starr4274 Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: K-Line 0 Guage 1/64 scale 4-8-8-4 Big Boy
Group: S-Trains Message: 22444 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: multiple transformers(was transformer phasing)
Group: S-Trains Message: 22445 From: David Dewey Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: AF UNcouplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 22446 From: David Dewey Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: loose drive wheels
Group: S-Trains Message: 22447 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: In Search of Chicks!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22448 From: waldootten Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: Rail joiners
Group: S-Trains Message: 22449 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] Digest Number 459 and switch radii
Group: S-Trains Message: 22450 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line 0 Guage 1/64 scale 4-8-8-4 Big Boy
Group: S-Trains Message: 22451 From: Walt Danylak Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line 0 Guage 1/64 scale 4-8-8-4 Big Boy
Group: S-Trains Message: 22452 From: srgriggs Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line 0 Guage 1/64 scale 4-8-8-4 Big Boy
Group: S-Trains Message: 22453 From: Bill Lane Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Pennsy S Models Update
Group: S-Trains Message: 22454 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: American Flyer Uncouplers Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1683
Group: S-Trains Message: 22455 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: AF Steam Loco Axles Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1683
Group: S-Trains Message: 22456 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: 6 Gilbert / AF Catalogs online now
Group: S-Trains Message: 22457 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer Uncouplers Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1683
Group: S-Trains Message: 22458 From: David Dewey Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Complete S layout on eBay
Group: S-Trains Message: 22459 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: Complete S layout on eBay
Group: S-Trains Message: 22460 From: Kielek Family Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: AF steam loco information(21139 and 21105)
Group: S-Trains Message: 22461 From: Tom Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Fw: Q & A Feb 2003 Issue
Group: S-Trains Message: 22462 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Q & A Feb 2003 Issue
Group: S-Trains Message: 22463 From: William Lange Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Favorite D.I.Y. Tools and materials
Group: S-Trains Message: 22464 From: pushpinss Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: Favorite D.I.Y. Tools and materials
Group: S-Trains Message: 22465 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Q & A Feb 2003 Issue
Group: S-Trains Message: 22466 From: John G Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Electromagnetic Crane loads
Group: S-Trains Message: 22467 From: Roy Inman Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: CTT S layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 22468 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Q & A Feb 2003 Issue
Group: S-Trains Message: 22469 From: Don Abrams Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: Loose driver wheel on axle
Group: S-Trains Message: 22470 From: Don Abrams Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: A matter of degree
Group: S-Trains Message: 22471 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: Electromagnetic Crane loads
Group: S-Trains Message: 22472 From: MARVD6848@aol.com Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: Favorite D.I.Y. Tools and materials
Group: S-Trains Message: 22473 From: David Dewey Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: Favorite D.I.Y. Tools and materials
Group: S-Trains Message: 22474 From: David Dewey Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Q & A Feb 2003 Issue
Group: S-Trains Message: 22475 From: David Dewey Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: A matter of degree
Group: S-Trains Message: 22476 From: David Dewey Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: AF steam loco information(21139 and 21105)
Group: S-Trains Message: 22477 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: degree of quarter
Group: S-Trains Message: 22478 From: eineke2001 Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Fwd: The Toy Train Barn's First Anniversary !
Group: S-Trains Message: 22479 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: K-LINE & S MODEL RAILROADING
Group: S-Trains Message: 22480 From: srgriggs Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: K-Line Big Boy Dimensions
Group: S-Trains Message: 22482 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Q & A Feb 2003 Issue
Group: S-Trains Message: 22483 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Houston A.F.?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22484 From: pushpinss Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: Loose driver wheel on axle
Group: S-Trains Message: 22485 From: pushpinss Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Q & A Feb 2003 Issue
Group: S-Trains Message: 22486 From: rkuepper Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: Electromagnetic Crane loads
Group: S-Trains Message: 22487 From: tomsmitty2001 Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: matter of degrees
Group: S-Trains Message: 22488 From: Don Abrams Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Electromagnetic Crane loads
Group: S-Trains Message: 22489 From: Don Abrams Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: A matter of degree
Group: S-Trains Message: 22490 From: Don Abrams Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: K-LINE & S MODEL RAILROADING
Group: S-Trains Message: 22491 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1685
Group: S-Trains Message: 22492 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1683
Group: S-Trains Message: 22493 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: matter of degrees
Group: S-Trains Message: 22494 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: 289 loco
Group: S-Trains Message: 22495 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: 289 loco
Group: S-Trains Message: 22496 From: Kielek Family Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: 5 digit steamer info
Group: S-Trains Message: 22497 From: nyc17819@aol.com Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: D.I.Y. tools
Group: S-Trains Message: 22498 From: nyc17819@aol.com Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: K-Line 3/16" 0 gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 22499 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: looking for GPs for kitbashing
Group: S-Trains Message: 22500 From: Kielek Family Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: 5 digit steamer info
Group: S-Trains Message: 22501 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: Quartering
Group: S-Trains Message: 22502 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: 289
Group: S-Trains Message: 22503 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line Big Boy Dimensions
Group: S-Trains Message: 22504 From: Chris Foden Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Interested in contacting 'S' gauge modelers in Ontario, Canada...
Group: S-Trains Message: 22505 From: William Lange Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Favorite D.I.Y. Tools and materials
Group: S-Trains Message: 22506 From: bilfrazier@aol.com Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: Couplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 22507 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: DIY TOOLS
Group: S-Trains Message: 22508 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: Favorite D.I.Y. Tools and materials
Group: S-Trains Message: 22509 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: Couplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 22510 From: Marty Lindower Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Milk car repair (newbie!)
Group: S-Trains Message: 22511 From: MARVD6848@aol.com Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: Houston A.F.?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22512 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: Re: Milk car repair (newbie!)
Group: S-Trains Message: 22513 From: david.avedesian@limbachinc.com Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: K-Line Big Boy
Group: S-Trains Message: 22514 From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: contacting 'S' modelers in Canada...
Group: S-Trains Message: 22515 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: Re: Milk car repair (newbie!)
Group: S-Trains Message: 22516 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Checkerboard Tower
Group: S-Trains Message: 22517 From: Steve Blancard Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: "burnt wood" scent smoke fluid
Group: S-Trains Message: 22518 From: elinashusband Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: Compiled Transformer Suggestions
Group: S-Trains Message: 22519 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1688
Group: S-Trains Message: 22520 From: Mark Preman Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: Great American Train Show - This Weekend - Tampa
Group: S-Trains Message: 22521 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: Re: my (3) pre-1953 AF sets(w/link couplers)
Group: S-Trains Message: 22522 From: trainman634 Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: Rating A.F. 722 Manual Switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 22523 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: Re: Rating A.F. 722 Manual Switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 22524 From: Kielek Family Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: AF 2 step reverse units
Group: S-Trains Message: 22525 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: Tools & Methods
Group: S-Trains Message: 22526 From: William Lange Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] DIY TOOLS
Group: S-Trains Message: 22527 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: Re: DIY TOOLS
Group: S-Trains Message: 22528 From: John G Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: electromagnetic crane loads - summary of responses
Group: S-Trains Message: 22529 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: CRANE LOADS
Group: S-Trains Message: 22530 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: CRANE LOADS/ & BLANTANT AD
Group: S-Trains Message: 22531 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: Transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 22532 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: Re: electromagnetic crane loads - summary of responses
Group: S-Trains Message: 22533 From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Tom) Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: Happy Holidays
Group: S-Trains Message: 22534 From: Bill Porter Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: Fixin' Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 22535 From: MARVD6848@aol.com Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 22536 From: trainman634 Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: First Train Set
Group: S-Trains Message: 22537 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: 1:64 scale toy is the hotest Chrismas Present
Group: S-Trains Message: 22538 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: Re: First Train Set
Group: S-Trains Message: 22539 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: WHISTLE CONTROL
Group: S-Trains Message: 22540 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: Re: WHISTLE CONTROL
Group: S-Trains Message: 22541 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: First set
Group: S-Trains Message: 22542 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: Merry Christmas
Group: S-Trains Message: 22543 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: Reminder - Merry Christmas - Test Event
Group: S-Trains Message: 22544 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Merry Christmas - Test Event
Group: S-Trains Message: 22545 From: Walt Danylak Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: Re: WHISTLE CONTROL
Group: S-Trains Message: 22546 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: Re: WHISTLE CONTROL
Group: S-Trains Message: 22547 From: John G Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: Out of round traction tire
Group: S-Trains Message: 22548 From: John Swinderman Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: My First Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 22549 From: John Foley Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: Merry Christmas
Group: S-Trains Message: 22550 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: Re: My First Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 22551 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: what d'ya get?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22552 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: Re: what d'ya get?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22553 From: theheadliner Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: Merry Christmas to All
Group: S-Trains Message: 22554 From: Roy Inman Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: Re: WHISTLE CONTROL
Group: S-Trains Message: 22555 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: Re: WHISTLE CONTROL
Group: S-Trains Message: 22556 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: Ertl geep for kitbashing project...
Group: S-Trains Message: 22557 From: Steve Blancard Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: Re: Out of round traction tire
Group: S-Trains Message: 22558 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: out of round pulmor wheel
Group: S-Trains Message: 22559 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: Re: what d'ya get?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22560 From: MARVD6848@aol.com Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 22561 From: waldootten Date: 12/26/2002
Subject: Re: My First Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 22562 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 12/26/2002
Subject: Merry Christmas to all!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22563 From: Knight, Gene Date: 12/26/2002
Subject: What did I get?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22564 From: Bill Lane Date: 12/26/2002
Subject: interior kits for sale/trade
Group: S-Trains Message: 22565 From: Doug Peck Date: 12/26/2002
Subject: Re: PULLMOR WHEELS
Group: S-Trains Message: 22566 From: srgriggs Date: 12/26/2002
Subject: Re: Ertl geep for kitbashing project...
Group: S-Trains Message: 22567 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 12/26/2002
Subject: THE "S" TRAINS I GOT!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22568 From: trainman634 Date: 12/26/2002
Subject: AF/LTI Pennsylvania Boxcars
Group: S-Trains Message: 22569 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 12/26/2002
Subject: Re: what d'ya get?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22570 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 12/26/2002
Subject: What did'ya get?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22571 From: jahoozdumm Date: 12/26/2002
Subject: Re; What did'ya get?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22572 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: 727 is back at Emery
Group: S-Trains Message: 22573 From: Steve Blancard Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: Re; What did'ya get?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22574 From: X3C12@aol.com Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: (2) Questions about my pre-1953 AF's
Group: S-Trains Message: 22575 From: johnbraker@webtv.net Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1685
Group: S-Trains Message: 22576 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: My first American Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 22577 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1692
Group: S-Trains Message: 22578 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: My first Flyer...2
Group: S-Trains Message: 22579 From: William Lange Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Let's make them really run well!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22580 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: (2) Questions about my pre-1953 AF's
Group: S-Trains Message: 22581 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1692
Group: S-Trains Message: 22582 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: RC CARS & OTHER USES
Group: S-Trains Message: 22583 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: What did You get?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22584 From: Gale Hall Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: trades
Group: S-Trains Message: 22585 From: Dan Brindell Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: 1/64 RC cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 22586 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: 1/64 RC cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 22587 From: Gale Hall Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: trades additional items wanted
Group: S-Trains Message: 22588 From: Dan Brindell Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: 1/64 RC cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 22589 From: Don Thompson Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: SHS today's shipment
Group: S-Trains Message: 22590 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: PM Rims and 785 Pulley
Group: S-Trains Message: 22591 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Christmas
Group: S-Trains Message: 22592 From: Steve Blancard Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: 1/64 RC cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 22593 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: Christmas
Group: S-Trains Message: 22594 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: Best looking locomotives
Group: S-Trains Message: 22595 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Best look?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22596 From: john swinderman Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Best looking locomotive
Group: S-Trains Message: 22597 From: Spots350SL@aol.com Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: 1/64 RC cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 22598 From: Don Thompson Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: Best look?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22599 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: BEST LOOK
Group: S-Trains Message: 22600 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: PULLMORE & 343's
Group: S-Trains Message: 22601 From: Spots350SL@aol.com Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: BEST LOOK
Group: S-Trains Message: 22602 From: Gary Chidester Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: What I got...Then and now.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22603 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Side Rod question.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22604 From: jahoozdumm Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: Re; What did'ya get?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22605 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Re: Re; What did'ya get?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22606 From: Roy Hoffman Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Re: Best looking locomotive
Group: S-Trains Message: 22607 From: Roy Inman Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] Re: Best looking locomotive
Group: S-Trains Message: 22608 From: keefer1_us Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Rerailers
Group: S-Trains Message: 22609 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Christmas goodies....
Group: S-Trains Message: 22610 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Re: Best looking locomotive
Group: S-Trains Message: 22611 From: keith kuzma Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: test
Group: S-Trains Message: 22612 From: David A. Highfield Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Re: Re; What did'ya get?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22613 From: keith kuzma Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Ebay item
Group: S-Trains Message: 22614 From: Mark Kiner Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Reverse unit in dual motor diesel
Group: S-Trains Message: 22615 From: Steve Blancard Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: "wood stove" smoke fluid
Group: S-Trains Message: 22616 From: keith kuzma Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: rerailers and best looking
Group: S-Trains Message: 22617 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Re: FW: [S-Trains] Re: Best looking locomotive
Group: S-Trains Message: 22618 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Best looking
Group: S-Trains Message: 22619 From: Steve Roche Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Dallas train layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 22620 From: Steve Roche Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Layout suggestions
Group: S-Trains Message: 22621 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: GATS show
Group: S-Trains Message: 22622 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Stock yard cattle
Group: S-Trains Message: 22623 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Rare American Flyer S Gauge #728 Rerailer ??????????????
Group: S-Trains Message: 22624 From: mlmarmer Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Re: Stock yard cattle
Group: S-Trains Message: 22625 From: mlmarmer Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Re: Rare American Flyer S Gauge #728 Rerailer ??????????????
Group: S-Trains Message: 22626 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Can motor for diesels project
Group: S-Trains Message: 22627 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: 316 4-6-2 Pacific
Group: S-Trains Message: 22628 From: waldootten Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: On "rare" rerailers -- and a few other things.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 22629 From: waldootten Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Sorry...
Group: S-Trains Message: 22630 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: Re; What did'ya get?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22631 From: David Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: 316 4-6-2 Pacific
Group: S-Trains Message: 22632 From: Doug Peck Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: ReRailers
Group: S-Trains Message: 22633 From: John M McAlonan Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1693
Group: S-Trains Message: 22634 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: On "rare" rerailers -- and a few other things.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 22635 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: Rare American Flyer S Gauge #728 Rerailer ??????????????
Group: S-Trains Message: 22636 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1693
Group: S-Trains Message: 22637 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: Best Loco Vote
Group: S-Trains Message: 22638 From: rj4010d Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 22639 From: Don Thompson Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 22640 From: John L. Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: GATS SHOWS SCHEDULE & LOCATIONS
Group: S-Trains Message: 22641 From: eric.reis Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: GATS SHOWS SCHEDULE & LOCATIONS
Group: S-Trains Message: 22642 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Train Shows.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 22643 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 22644 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 22645 From: Roy Inman Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Best looking
Group: S-Trains Message: 22646 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 22647 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: Train Shows.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 22648 From: trzp1800 Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 22649 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: YAHOO SIGN IN
Group: S-Trains Message: 22650 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: YAHOO SIGN IN
Group: S-Trains Message: 22651 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 22652 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Book
Group: S-Trains Message: 22653 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Tonight's chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 22654 From: David Dewey Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 22655 From: David Dewey Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: Train Shows.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 22656 From: stanley Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 22657 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1693
Group: S-Trains Message: 22658 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 22659 From: Roger Hinds Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 22660 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: NMRA SITE
Group: S-Trains Message: 22661 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: Train Shows.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 22662 From: John G Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: Train Shows.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 22663 From: David Dewey Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Finding Trains- Cousins.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22664 From: jahoozdumm Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: NMRA SITE
Group: S-Trains Message: 22665 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Painting Article
Group: S-Trains Message: 22666 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: long long ago.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22667 From: rkuepper Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Accessory Labels
Group: S-Trains Message: 22668 From: AF336 Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Re: Accessory Labels
Group: S-Trains Message: 22669 From: John L. Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Train Shows
Group: S-Trains Message: 22670 From: keith kuzma Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: rerailer track
Group: S-Trains Message: 22671 From: dicklong14052 Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Rare rerailer?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22672 From: MARVD6848@aol.com Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: yuppie servivle
Group: S-Trains Message: 22673 From: G C Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Long Long Time Ago
Group: S-Trains Message: 22674 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Re: Train Shows
Group: S-Trains Message: 22675 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Q & A Feb 2003 Issue
Group: S-Trains Message: 22676 From: keith kuzma Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: RE-RAILER
Group: S-Trains Message: 22677 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] Re: Best looking locomotive
Group: S-Trains Message: 22678 From: ctbigboy Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Classic Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 22679 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Re: Choo choo problem?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22680 From: Mark Kiner Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: 20 Mule team borax
Group: S-Trains Message: 22681 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: looking
Group: S-Trains Message: 22682 From: colleenandrob Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Question about AF 283
Group: S-Trains Message: 22683 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Re: looking
Group: S-Trains Message: 22684 From: G C Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: The Stars Behind The Counter
Group: S-Trains Message: 22685 From: Bill Porter Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Reference Request
Group: S-Trains Message: 22686 From: Gary Chidester Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Finally getting close!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22687 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Re: Reference Request
Group: S-Trains Message: 22688 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Re: Question about AF 283
Group: S-Trains Message: 22689 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: AF mail bag blues
Group: S-Trains Message: 22690 From: eric.reis Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Re: Reference Request
Group: S-Trains Message: 22691 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Re: Question about AF 283
Group: S-Trains Message: 22692 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Re: Reference Request
Group: S-Trains Message: 22693 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Re: Layout suggestions
Group: S-Trains Message: 22694 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Mail Bags
Group: S-Trains Message: 22695 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Blue for mailbags?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22696 From: keith kuzma Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: blue mailbags ,daylight lti set
Group: S-Trains Message: 22697 From: David Dewey Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Re: Question about AF 283
Group: S-Trains Message: 22698 From: waldootten Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: Superb Flyer loco reference
Group: S-Trains Message: 22699 From: Doug Peck Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: Re: Refernce request (Gilbert HO)
Group: S-Trains Message: 22700 From: Roger Hinds Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: 20 Mule team borax model
Group: S-Trains Message: 22701 From: IronHorse Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: AC Gilbert
Group: S-Trains Message: 22702 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: 282/283
Group: S-Trains Message: 22703 From: MARVD6848@aol.com Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 22704 From: Ron Inscho Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 22705 From: dfg30087 Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: Identification help
Group: S-Trains Message: 22706 From: David Dewey Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: Happy New Year
Group: S-Trains Message: 22707 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: More photos added tp S-Scale albums - Thanks guys
Group: S-Trains Message: 22708 From: Richard Alexander Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: switch specs needed
Group: S-Trains Message: 22709 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: Blue "Babe"...
Group: S-Trains Message: 22710 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: Re: 282/283
Group: S-Trains Message: 22711 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: No gig tonight,...but trains!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22712 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: bubbling tubes


Group: S-Trains Message: 16281 From: Gary Chidester Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Please help.
I need your help to accomplish my new years resolution. I have made a goal
to not buy anything related to american flyer on e-bay! If you would not
list anything for the next 31 days it will help. It certainly won't
guarantee anything, but it will help!

gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 16282 From: notcoldenough Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Resistance soldering
Tim wrote:
>
> What is a resistance soldering unit and how did you build yours?
>

Check these sites out:

http://www.modelwarship.com/hintsntips/showtip.cfm?questionID=33

http://www.cox-internet.com/drspiff/electronics/resistance.htm

John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 16283 From: kempfam@aol.com Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Paint
Painting his a highly personal thing when it comes to trains, especially
since many think that by painting the collectability of the piece is
compromised. A couple of things that I have done that have had good results
from my perspective, is to touch up steam locomotive scratches and scrapes
with permanent marker. If you don't like the results you can wipe it off
right away. You can probably find nailpolish at home to match nicks in red
paints. You can use the nailpolish brush if it is good quality. I touched
up an SF red in this way and you really have to look closely to spot the
touch ups.
Hope I havn't offended any purists, not that we have any on this list.
Ron Kemp
Group: S-Trains Message: 16284 From: crustyfour Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Newbie with a few questions
Hi Group,

My name is Steve Blancard. After about 15 years I decided to pull
out my American Flyer trains and have some good old fashion fun. I
have a 322 Hudson Loco with 3 green New Haven passenger cars, a
Franklin 4-4-0 with 2 yellow coaches and a 21165 loco with 3 freight
cars and caboose.

The 322 was serviced about 16 years ago and runs very well.

The Franklin runs rough and probably needs a good cleaning and
lubrication.

The 21165 runs well but is noisy, kind of a like a gear sound. This
is one of the cheaper Pikemaster locos, is this sound normal for this
loco?

Is there an online cleaning and lube article anywhere? Or can someone
give me some pointers on how to do it? I realize the wheels, track
and pickups need to be cleaned but what about lubrication?, cleaning
the motor etc.?

The remote control unit for my switches are missing the bulbs (and
lenses?) Are these the same as flashlight bulbs? Can they be
purchased locally or do I need to get these from an AF dealer? I also
need a red lense for my 8B transformer.

The rubber tires on all the locos are pretty dried out. Can I get new
new tires somewhere?

Lastly, can you recommend some reputable dealers to get these parts
from and others as the need arises?

I realize these are real newbie questions and apologize to you
longtime AF runners who probably answered these questions in the
past. I looked back over the last month's posts but didn't see these
items discussed.

Thanks,
Steve in Virginia
Group: S-Trains Message: 16285 From: crustyfour Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Newbie questions - dooh!
I just found the S-Trains FAQ that answers some of my questions.
However I would still appreciate your input and experience. I really
look forward to learning from you guys!

Thanks,
steve
Group: S-Trains Message: 16286 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: AF Caboose
I have good luck prying them up a little bit with a sturdy knife blade.
When you've gotten them started then a good gripping pair of pliers
should complete the removal.

SMASTER636@... wrote:
>
> I have an AF 977 Caboose that I am looking to take apart and service. I
> cannot get the four corner rivets out to get into the caboose. Any
> suggestions?
>
> Joe Fariello
> Cooper City, FL.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 16287 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: Turntables & Wiring
I have an old Wilson turntable also, and likewise need a wiring diagram. From the
info I've been able to gather so far, the wiring includes the motor, a plate type
rectifier, and two DPST switches, and interconnecting red, green, white, black and
yellow wires.
Any scrapes of additional info to piece this puzzle together would be appreciated.
Gene

"Neimanis,V. [NCR]" wrote:

> Since turntables are a recent topic of conversation and our list of S
> members has increased, I will again repose my asked question. I lost my
> wiring diagram when moving my layout and turntable years ago and have been
> unable to figure out the connections. It is probably a retrofit HO
> turntable with a 15 1/2 in diameter metal base. It is powered by a #5-100
> Wilson's of Cleveland multi-geared motor and has 2 slider switches and a
> Bradley 926 gizmo (whatever that is). There are 4 wires coming from the
> turntable but the permutations and combinations with the switches (one was
> direction of movement and the other was polarity) along with this Bradley
> gizmo makes the job somewhat daunting.
>
> Again,any advice or leads to a diagram would be much appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> V. Neimanis
> Ottawa, Canada
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16288 From: David Dewey Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: Loose AF tender truck rivet bushings
I've been thinking over the complaints about the repro bushings giving the
trucks too much clearance, or "play". AF trucks have a ring, which serves as
the side bearings (real trains have side bearings on the trucks and car to
limit rocking, as the car bodies only sit on the trucks over a pin and a
bearing cup). the mounting hole is in the center of this ring in dished
recess (when viewed from the top of the truck--you have to have the truck
off to see it from the top!). When removing the old rivet, many just drive
it out, which will flatten that dish. The truck will still rivet together,
but now it will have more side clearance, and will rock more! I didn't think
about this, but I usually will inspect trucks here for damage, and often
have to put them on a small anvil so I can hammer them flat again (the hole
is oftentimes distorted from the rivet removal process). Then I have to
place the truck over a handy socket that is the size of the "ring" and use a
flat-ended round punch to put the "dish" back in. While I use the old hammer
method, a small press would be ideal for this! If you put too much dish in,
the truck won't even turn after re-riveting!
As to not being able to rivet as tight with a hammer Vs a press, Hmm, I
know I've tightened up factory rivet jobs with my hammer and rivet punch!
Loose truck rivets on passenger cars will drive you nuts with flickering
bulbs! I did an experiment once, and added a wire to the uninsulated truck
on a NH car, it seemed to help, but that's not a scientific result, just my
prejudiced observation!
HAPPY NEW YEAR!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16289 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: Paint
Hi Ron,

I agree with you about keeping the original paint job intact if possible. I can understand stripping and repainting if a piece is a total wreck anyway. May as well breathe some new life into it.

The paint on this handcar is okay except for some serious corrosion/lifting around the base of the two guys. Maybe I could try just touching up those areas first. I'll still have to match the color up, though. I have to replace the guys too, as they are brittle and the hands are broken off the handles. Also, the decals are chipped badly and need replaced. It's a tough call. Is it more valuable 'as is', or respectfully restored? The struggle is how far to go with it. If that's all us Flyer guys have to worry about this year, should be a good 'un.

Happy New Year,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: <kempfam@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 10:56 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Paint


> Painting his a highly personal thing when it comes to trains, especially
> since many think that by painting the collectability of the piece is
> compromised. A couple of things that I have done that have had good results
> from my perspective, is to touch up steam locomotive scratches and scrapes
> with permanent marker. If you don't like the results you can wipe it off
> right away. You can probably find nailpolish at home to match nicks in red
> paints. You can use the nailpolish brush if it is good quality. I touched
> up an SF red in this way and you really have to look closely to spot the
> touch ups.
> Hope I havn't offended any purists, not that we have any on this list.
> Ron Kemp
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16290 From: David Dewey Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: Paint & touching up
Alright, who's letting out the secrets of a conservation restoration
here!!??? My 314AW was in good condition except for some "pimples" on one
side. I took a trick from auto restoration and used a broomstraw to apply a
mix of black and flat that dried very, very, close to the ACG paint and
filled in the spots. Hard to see now! Wish I could remember what I used, but
it's been too long ago!
There's one guy out here (I don't remember who he is, sorry!) who claims
to be able to turn any VG+ to and E- with his bag of tricks, but he won't
tell what he does! I've only heard of his work second-hand. Anyone who has
had him upgrade his stuff doesn't talk about it! I guess only the Shadow
knows! ;-) I am amazed at how much some careful cleaning will improve the
appearance of a piece. Now if I could just match the white on my very
chipped Gilbert Milk car. . . .
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16291 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1262
PAINT

Leventon Hobby Supply They have paint for all A.F... 2 oz. & 12
oz. spray cans.

Jerry 77-11644
________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16292 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: train enamel
I have had extremely poor results with at least four different colors of
train enamel, both spray and jar. It takes many and/or thick coats to get
depth of color, which obscures detail. The colors are not close matches to
the originals -- the Royal Blue is expecially bad. It dries slowly and not
well. And it is much glossier than Flyer finishes. My friends have had
similar results with and opinions of it.

It is not a good idea to use this stuff on American Flyer S gauge trains.

Tom Jarcho



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16293 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: train enamel
I guess after all this I can throw in
my thoughts. I use Krylon or Testors
model spray paints that come close to Flyer.
I have also had poor results with
"Train Enamel". Check out my
356 Circus Engine repaint at
http://www.geocities.com/glenn_ritter
"My Model Railroad" using Testors.

Glenn

jarcho@... wrote:

I have had extremely poor results
with at least four different colors of
train enamel, both spray and jar. It
takes many and/or thick coats to get
depth of color, which obscures detail.
The colors are not close matches to
the originals -- the Royal Blue is
expecially bad. It dries slowly and not
well. And it is much glossier than
Flyer finishes. My friends have had
similar results with and opinions of it.

It is not a good idea to use this stuff
on American Flyer S gauge trains.

Tom Jarcho


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16294 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: train enamel
Re: Train Enamel.

I have only used one color of Train Enamel, the 762 Accessory Green. My
experience was similar to Tom Jarcho's. Lots of coats, because it has a
tendency to run. You need to apply a bunch of thin coats to avoid running
and to get coverage. The match is not good when comparing the Train Enamel
repaint to an original Flyer piece. If you know anything about Flyer, you
don't even have to hold the repaint and an original Gilbert piece side by
side to tell the difference. It's just not right. You'll know that it is
not right before your even finished.

I followed all of the instructions on the can precisely, including the primer
color on separate pieces at different times. It is a let down. I would be
willing to pay $10 a can plus S&H if the stuff matched better. Maybe I'm
doing something wrong? Anyone got an Accessory Green out there???

Regards,
Curtis Dorwart


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Group: S-Trains Message: 16295 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: paint
I have tried to repost three old posts from the last time we
discused this topic. Hope it works. Hope it helps.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 16296 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: train enamel
In a message dated 1/1/02 4:00:09 PM, jarcho@... writes:

<< Re: Train Enamel.

I have only used one color of Train Enamel, the 762 Accessory Green. My
experience was similar to Tom Jarcho's. Lots of coats, because it has a
tendency to run. You need to apply a bunch of thin coats to avoid running
and to get coverage. The match is not good when comparing the Train Enamel
repaint to an original Flyer piece. >>

I agree with Tom's and Curtis's comments. Oddly enough, I have had a good
experience with Train Enamel AF accessory green. I once repaired a Guilford
station base with a good color match. I wet sanded the offending side and
carefully applied by spray a thin (not overly thick) coat. One of the tricks
for using the stuff is that one MUST bake the paint after application. In
this instance, it was a warm, calm, sunny summer's day and I left the piece
in a box with an open top in the sun to cure for a few hours. Presto! :-)

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 16297 From: crustyfour Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Newbie question
Wow! Thanks for all the responses. Its great to know there are so
many helpful folks here. I think I'm gonna like this list :-)

You-all have given me a lot of great links and plenty of reading to do
but no doubt I will have plenty of other questions that I'll be asking
in the future.

Scott - I live in Fredericksburg Virginia, so I appear to be right
between your group and the Richmond group. Do you know of anyone in
the Fredericksburg area?

Thanks,
Steve
Group: S-Trains Message: 16298 From: Alex Sibbald Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: 293 tender trucks
Hi all,
I would like to thank all who sent advice on how to reattach my 293
tender sidepiece to the truck assembly. I had to rule out the drilling
since my 293 unlike the 303 does use the drawbar and the hole is not
available for drilling.
I went with Tom Barkers method and used J-B Weld, a two-part adhesive
and used needle-nose vice grips along with "C" clamps to hold the
assembly in place during curing. The 293 is now back happily
transversing the layout.
Thanks alot,
Alex(innotron)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16299 From: DoUg Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: Newbie question
How about sharing some of those responses with the rest of the list.
Especially where you found the FAQ on s trains
Thanks,
DOug
----- Original Message -----
From: "crustyfour" <splitdorf@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 2:01 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Newbie question


> Wow! Thanks for all the responses. Its great to know there are so
> many helpful folks here. I think I'm gonna like this list :-)
>
> You-all have given me a lot of great links and plenty of reading to do
> but no doubt I will have plenty of other questions that I'll be asking
> in the future.
>
> Scott - I live in Fredericksburg Virginia, so I appear to be right
> between your group and the Richmond group. Do you know of anyone in
> the Fredericksburg area?
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16300 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1262
Hi Jerry,

Thanks for your suggestion. I've been to their web site. They don't seem to have paint for a #740 Handcar. And if they do, it isn't evident what color to order, which is my point exactly. Of course, I could just call them.

Anyone out there wishing to visit the above-mentioned web site, it is:
http://www.amerflyer.com/leventon/
Or, just do a search on 'Leventon Hobby' off Yahoo.

Thanks,
Tim


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald R Dobbs" <grdobbs@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1262


>
>
> PAINT
>
> Leventon Hobby Supply They have paint for all A.F... 2 oz. & 12
> oz. spray cans.
>
> Jerry 77-11644
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
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> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
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>
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>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16301 From: Steve Blancard Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: Newbie question -summary of responses
DoUg wrote:

> How about sharing some of those responses with the rest of the list.
> Especially where you found the FAQ on s trains
> Thanks,
> DOug

Doug,

I thought they did go to the list but I guess not. Here is a summary (ediited
for brevity and names deleted), hope folks don't mind me putting these on the
list:

S-train FAQ - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm

___________
Other responses:


Try both Joe's Train repair at Joestrainrepair.com and Portlines Hobbies.
These are
two of the best dealers for parts. Both also repair engines when the problems
are
greater than my ability. Also look at Paul Yorkes S Gauge home page..a sorce of

much
knowledge and some repair info. Check out his links page. Have fun! regards


______
National Association of S Gaugers at:
http://www.nasg.org
North Penn S Gaugers (local Club) at:
http://npsg3.homestead.com/files/npsgi.htm
Paul Yorke's links:
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/
Roy Hoffman's (NASG President) website:
http://www.s-scaletrains.com/
Atlantic Coast S Gaugers on Homestead:
http://www.homestead.com/waynestrains/acsg.html
Badgerland S Gaugers on Trainweb
http://www.trainweb.org/bsg/
Bristol S Gaugers at Trainweb
http://www.trainweb.org/bristol-s-gauge/index.html
A lot more ideas can be found at:
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/links/links.htm
American Flyer Trains at:
http://www.s-scaletrains.com/saf.htm
Crossroads of America RR museum:
http://www.travel.to/cofa
John & Robin Vanacore:
http://www.afstrains.com/index.html
Southeastern Michigan S Gaugers http://www.southeastmichigansgaugers.org

_________________________

Steve look for a guy named Doug Peck on this list ....He has everything.....I
don't have
his address right at this time.....He may contact you after reading your
post....He is very
honest....Has all the parts you listed.....I just got up if hre doesn't get
in touch or
someone else give you his address write me back & i'll get it for you

___________

If you aren't plugged into it already you should go to
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ which is Paul Yorke's excellent
website on S gauge. I could give you other sites but they're probably
all linkable to from Paul's site. See also a couple comments below.

___________
> The 21165 runs well but is noisy, kind of a like a gear sound. This
> is one of the cheaper Pikemaster locos, is this sound normal for this
> loco?
It is very normal for a Pikemaster loco to be very noisy. In spite of
that they usually run very well.
>
> Is there an online cleaning and lube article anywhere? Or can someone
> give me some pointers on how to do it? I realize the wheels, track
> and pickups need to be cleaned but what about lubrication?, cleaning
> the motor etc.?
>
> The remote control unit for my switches are missing the bulbs (and
> lenses?) Are these the same as flashlight bulbs? Can they be
> purchased locally or do I need to get these from an AF dealer? I also
> need a red lense for my 8B transformer.
The switch controllers don't have lenses- they use red and green bulbs.
The bulbs are not flashlight bulbs, they should be in the 16-18 Volt
range.
For the bulbs and transformer lens see Doug Peck's parts at
http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
>
> The rubber tires on all the locos are pretty dried out. Can I get new
> new tires somewhere?
>
> Lastly, can you recommend some reputable dealers to get these parts
> from and others as the need arises?
Again, Doug Peck.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16302 From: TCS Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Folks with AOL
Seems like some folks that have AOL are having trouble with my web page.
Forget using AOL browser and use IE instead. Here is the link to
download IE, yes it will work with AOL. I use to have AOL, but will
never go back to it. AOL stands for American OFF Line. <g>

http://microsoft.com/windows/ie/default.asp
---
---
Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals
N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals
26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054
Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@...
Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/
Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/
NMRA Member #121756
Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 16303 From: TWesthelle@aol.com Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Paint Question
Well, it seems I have created way more inputs about all of our state of
confusion over paint and trying to get close to AF colors.
I in now way wish to alter any of my truly collectible pieces with touch up
paint. I think best to replace a piece of a collection with a better example
than to in anyway destroy its collectability thru alteration.
I am concerned primarily with the rollingstock and engines that I use on my
track as runners. Would be nice to touchup those gunched corners and
scratches that glare either black or white molding thru the various road
colors.
Im looking for close color match, but unfortunately the only way I have even
attempted to match is to buy a jar of paint, and attempt the repair in hopes
of a "close" color match.
Seems that I am not alone in this quest. Again, everyones input,
suggestions, and reference is most truly appreciated by myself, and Im sure
countless others.
Again, thanks for this forum to voice opinion and gain knowledge, great bunch
of folks, we SGauge people!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tom Westhelle
Group: S-Trains Message: 16304 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: paint
I totally and completely reject the notion long promulgated by the TCA that
trains with touchups or other minor cosmetic repair are not collectible.
In my view that is total cow manure. Utter nonsense. Many many people
out there agree with me on this.

I have gone into the motivation behind this rule in previous posts.

Do you think that the Mona Lisa doesn't have touchups? Or has never been
cleaned?

Trains cannot be subjected to any kind of cleaning process without small
amounts of paint coming off. It must be replaced by touchups. Does this
mean that we shouldn't clean dirty trains? Does the dirt on them have to
be original dirt? Do we have to collect the dirt too to follow the "rules"
of the "game"?

Touchups, repair of mechanical / electrical flaws, replacement of broken
parts, and replacement of easily decayed materials such as cloth, paper,
cardboard, rubber, etc., are simply part of the responsible ownership of
trains.

Keeping a train in "totally original" condition as it slowly decays into a
junkpile, just to follow the rules of a game promulgated by the TCA, is
ridiculous.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 16305 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: newbie Q
Steve: you should also consider a subscription to S Gaugian magazine. It
has features and photos on Flyer and other types of S, and regular columns
on operating and collecting Flyer. It is published by Don Heimburger and
2002 is it's 40th year!!!

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 16306 From: Paul Yorke Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: running 'long stored' trains
I started working on a page to help people get old
trains running after extended storage.
Please take a look and send me your comments off-line.
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/lube/stored.html
I never claimed to be an expert, so David & Tom and
some of you other 'experts' please help me out.
Also remember, 'kiss' , thanks.



=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 16307 From: Paul Yorke Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: Newbie question
The Frequently Asked Questions is found at..
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm

I am always looking for new material.


=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 16308 From: Doug Peck Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: Paint
Just a caution regarding the TrainEnamel paints (which we do carry).....
they are NOT intended for touchup purposes!!!! RARELY will you get a perfect
match, partly because your original colors have experienced some fading over
the years, and partly because some of the colors simply aren't "exact
matches" !! Even the manufacturer cautions against them for touch-up
purposes.
For total repaints, most of the colors are adequate......3 or 4 of them are
even excellent.....but not satisfactory for touchup.

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supplies
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please).
http://www.portlines.com
portlines@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 16309 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Paint Matches
Here are some "matches" that I have had good results with:
Tank Car "Silver", Humbrol #27001, Flat Aluminum, overcoated with a
combination of Glosscote/Dullcote to produce the desired sheen.

Flatcar Grey, Model Master RLMM 66 Schwarzgrau, Mix with a drop(s) of
gloss or flat white to shade and overcoat if necessary to adjust sheen.

Handcar Orange, This is a mix, Model Master Gelb RLM04 and Boyd Sunburst
#52708, mixed at 5 or 6 Gelb to 1 Sunburst. Overcoat, if necessary, with a
combination of Glooscote/Dullcote to match sheen.

Engine Black, 7 or 8 drops of Testors Flat Black to 1 drop of Gloss
Black. Plastic usually goes at 8/1, cast at 7/1.

Accessory Green, using C.Wood Paint, 10 drops of Acc. Green, 4 drops of
Testors Gloss Yellow and 1 drop of Testors Gloss Blue. This is not an exact
match but as close as I could get. A second attempt, again close, 8 drops
of Model Master Pale Green #34227 to 1 drop of Testors Gloss yellow and
overcoat with Glosscote. This last "mix" is also a good starting place for
the log loader deck.

Girder, Polyscale #404094 Utility Orange, not an excat match but a good
out-of the bottle match.

Need a starting place for the Great Northern Boxcar, chipped catwalk and
replacement door.

Good luck with the above...each one I do requires an adjustment in
combinations but they have been good starting points.

Happy New Year to all! Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 16310 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: E-Unit drum repair
Greetings, just started working on a 290, E-Unit. "Fingers" not contacting
drum. Removed fingers to adjust and discovered that soldering had been done
with "fingers" in contact with drum leaving two indentions in the plastic.
The drum is, otherwise, is in great shape. Is there a way to repair the
"indentions"? I thought I would start with a drop of Epoxy in each
indention, some careful filing then sanding and buffing in the drill? Any
thoughts or suggestions would be really be appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 16311 From: Gary Chidester Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: e-Bay anonymous
It looks like I'm not the only one to have an addiction!

Hi. My name is Gary and I am addicted to e-Bay. Yes, it's easy to get
burned by sellers. Yes, there are better deals from train shows and even
from my friendly, not so close, train store owner, but......... I live in
the boondocks, can't get to train shows very often if at all, my local shop
owner is great and I buy when I can, but he can't get EVERYTHING I want!

If anyone else needs support, e-mail me the e-bay auction # and I'll talk
you out of it. wait, this may be too much temptation........ You're on
your own! ;-)


Happy new year all and thank you for all of your great advice!

gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 16312 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: strrrrrange noise
One of my electric switches, located behind some furniture, was making a
totally bizarre rattling noise every time I switched it to the straight
position.

Turned out that there was an alligator clip lying on the floor next to it,
and the magnetism of the switch solenoid was making it jump up and dance
all over the solenoid housing!

TJ
Group: S-Trains Message: 16313 From: David Dewey Date: 1/1/2002
Subject: Re: e-Bay anon--join now!
JOIN NOW!! Ebay-anon will help you with your addiction. As we all know, the
only way to prevent addiction is to remove yourself from the object of
addiction. We are here to help you, just box up your trains and send them to
our world headquarters at: EBay-anon, 3435 Myers St. Oroville, CA. By
removing them from your sight, the temptation will be gone! We will take
good care of them and insure that they do not appear on any eBay auctions
ever again! This is a terrible responsibility, but we do it willingly, for
the good of all humanity.
If you can't send your trains, you can at least donate to the Orphan's
Fund!
Your ever-faithful Servant,
Train Monk
Group: S-Trains Message: 16314 From: David Dewey Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: It Lives!!! (not trains, Linda's car) & New Digs
I apologize to those who were expecting something about trains, but this is
the easiest way to let all my S-trains friends (family!) know that Linda's
car again runs. Final verdict is not out, but I can (I hope!) drive it to MY
work this week until I'm sure it's "good to goe" for Linda's work (she
travels many more miles than I!).
Also had a get-together with the current owner, and my folks, at the hopeful
new Digs, went very well, looking more positive than before. Dad & I got
lost in the southwest corner (not really lost, but couldn't find our trail
back and kept running into more bushes, etc.---and avoiding the poison oak!)
for about 20 minutes, but we enjoyed the walk, and Dad found some mushrooms
(no, we didn't eat them!). Only time will tell now!
I return you now to the regular program: run 'em if ya got 'em!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16315 From: af21115 Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: Paint Question
I've been restoring and repairing trains for 30 years now, more so
Lionels than AF. I find that Train Enamel is the best paint available
out there. The only time I go to other manufacturers is when I can
get a color match and a better price. Those instances would be with
black die cast locos, there I use Krylon semi-flat black or on Lionel
tinplate frames Krylon gloss black. I also use their light grey for
the 589 and 758 bases and such. All I can say is that the Train
Enamel paint is specifically designed to require several light coats
between specified drying times. This is especially true with lighter
colors such as cream, and white etc. Baking the finish does give a
better looking sheen and a more desireable hardness. Proper surface
preparation is critical as the paint is not forgiving to defects
and/or dirt/dust. It is very forgiving however as far as runs are
concerned. The paint is specifically designed to make those dissapear
when dry unless they are excessive. A factory looking run on Lionel
pieces can be duplicated by hanging the item as Lionel did during
painting and over spraying with heavy coats. Environment is also
important. Your work area must be warm and dry for the paint to dry
correctly and within the specified times indicated on the can. If its
taking over night or a day or days to dry, your working environment
is too cold and/or too damp. Baking will get around this if you
cannot change locations or change conditions. Lionel colors are what
got the company in business as thats what they set out to produce.
Its seems that more care was given in matching those colors more
accurately. I've not had a Lionel color not match very well. The AF
colors do need some work. The Accessory Green is definitely off. If
you need to get that green, order Lionel 45 Gateman Green its almost
dead on. I've not used the circus loco red or other AF colors offered
so I cannot say if they are a decent match or not. For home
restorations, no matter how well you prepare, and no matter how close
the color match is, you need to remember that you'll never get an
exact factory match of color and texture. There will always be a
slightly lighter tint, or a slightly darker tint, or one area that
will come out with a slightly grainier texture. You can come really
close by using factory techniques, but sometimes this is not possible
or practical.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16316 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: E-Unit drum repair
Hi Charlie,

I believe you're on the right track (sorry). I would double-check the epoxy for electrical non-conductivity first. I know Duco cement is a non-conductor. Many use that to coat a rewound armature.

Good luck,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie&Edith" <Chancock@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 12:15 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] E-Unit drum repair


> Greetings, just started working on a 290, E-Unit. "Fingers" not contacting
> drum. Removed fingers to adjust and discovered that soldering had been done
> with "fingers" in contact with drum leaving two indentions in the plastic.
> The drum is, otherwise, is in great shape. Is there a way to repair the
> "indentions"? I thought I would start with a drop of Epoxy in each
> indention, some careful filing then sanding and buffing in the drill? Any
> thoughts or suggestions would be really be appreciated. Thanks in advance!
> Charlie
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16317 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: e-Bay anonymous
Hi,

My name is Tim and I haven't bought anything off eBay in 27 days.

Now that my Flyer collection is adequate to run and have fun with, I would rather collect working pieces at train meets. I want to see it better, pick it up, ask questions about it, etc. before I make the purchase. Besides, it's a chance to get out of the basement and actually meet people. What a concept!

Hey, did you see the bargain on that challenger? The auction is set to end in 20 minutes. Gotta run...


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Chidester" <garychidester@...>
To: "S-trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 12:27 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] e-Bay anonymous


> It looks like I'm not the only one to have an addiction!
>
> Hi. My name is Gary and I am addicted to e-Bay. Yes, it's easy to get
> burned by sellers. Yes, there are better deals from train shows and even
> from my friendly, not so close, train store owner, but......... I live in
> the boondocks, can't get to train shows very often if at all, my local shop
> owner is great and I buy when I can, but he can't get EVERYTHING I want!
>
> If anyone else needs support, e-mail me the e-bay auction # and I'll talk
> you out of it. wait, this may be too much temptation........ You're on
> your own! ;-)
>
>
> Happy new year all and thank you for all of your great advice!
>
> gary
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16318 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Paint
I believe that Ron Leventon's paints are the dreaded "Train Enamel". I
had painted a couple of aluminum coaches using Train Enamel. They
didn't dry for over a year, until I finally brought them out of the
basement into the hottest room of the house for a couple of weeks. Tom
Jarcho had suggested adding cobalt drier to this paint, which I used
with Train Enamel circus red and yellow and it really made a difference
in drying time. I got a big bottle from an internet art supply. A few
drops in each jar was enough. You can't do this with the spray cans,
however. You can use this paint with a brush and it dries so slowly
that the brush marks disappear. It does require several coats on
details because it tends to run off.

I'd still recommend not using this stuff. Doug Peck once announced he
was working on a new line of paints. How's that effort going, Doug?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 16319 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: paint
In a message dated 1/1/02 8:43:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, jarcho@...
writes:

<< I totally and completely reject the notion long promulgated by the TCA that
trains with touchups or other minor cosmetic repair are not collectible. >>

As a point of clarification, the TCA (as an organization) does not take the
position that a touched up toy train is not collectible; however, touch ups,
repaints, and so forth do change the grading of a piece -- a position taken
in some form by the TCA, TTOS, LCCA, etc. A truly all original piece is
usually considered more desirable by most than one that is less so from the
standpoint of history and relative collectibility. This practice originated
from the norm previously established in the toy collecting field as a whole.
The standards associated with toy collecting are tougher than those within
the field of toy train collecting, in which there is a greater toleration of
touch ups, repairs, repaints, etc. (An original box is a really big deal with
toys!).

There is nothing wrong with fixing up one's trains to look and run better --
what is not acceptable is doing so and then not representing the piece
correctly when one resells or trades it. Those interested in operating a
piece may not care, but it may matter greatly with collectors -- it depends
on the purposes and expectations behind the purchase or trade.

Hope this helps.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 16320 From: bpx29@aol.com Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Speaking of Ebay....
Folks,
I couldn't help but notice the mention of Ebay on an earlier posting. I finally began selling off a few HO items over there, after thinking about it for a couple of years. But now I thought I might ask a bit of advise from the S gauge fraternity. I'm fairly well-versed in HO scale, but am at something of a loss regarding Flyer stuff.Anyway, I have several boxes of Flyer stuff tucked away in the basement. This Christmas I finally got an old Atlantic running again after close to 40 years in storage, and plan on keeping a "Christmas tree" set of equipment for seasonal use. The rest of the old equipment though, I think I should perhaps sell off, what with tuition and other irksome expenses closing in on me. I'm not talking about any collector's dream here, but there is considerable stuff down there in the catacombs. (It's needless to add that in my pre-teen years I decided to improve some of this stuff with my own paint jobs using Pactra type paints, etc). There's perhaps 75 freight cars, quite a few link coupler versions, several Atlantics including a metal one, a pacific or two, 0-6-0t, Baldwin switcher, PA, some passenger cars, a couple of transformers, lots and lots of track and switchs, some Flyer buildings and odds and ends from Gilbert. Also, there's some manuals, catalogs, a trestle set and a video tape about the American Flyer Boy'
s Club layout which I picked up a few years ago.Oh, and a Marx train set whose origin I can't recall at all. But it's an oldie, all metal, no plastic at all.
What I'm wondering is, should I assemble a rumage-sale package out of this and post it to Ebay, or am I better off going bits and pieces? I'm in no urgent hurry after all these years, but then again I am interested in clearing this out.There's a good number of local swap meets in my area, but I don't know Flyer all that well, and after considerable HO exposure to these meets I'm not sure I'd want to trust some of the 'friendly local collectors'. Having seen some of these guys operate against unknowing widows in the past, I cringe at the idea of this happening to my family someday. (I did pick up a price guide, but I gather these are subject to considerable skepticism)
What do you gents think a guy should do? Any advise would be appreciated.
Regards,
Barry Peltier
Group: S-Trains Message: 16321 From: David Dewey Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: Speaking of Ebay....
Barry,
Tough call! It takes time to prep and service an auction, so that is one
consideration. While you can perhaps get more selling each piece individualy
(if you watch eBay, you will note some people even split Alco A and B units
up instead of selling as a set), you can get rid of more at once selling as
a group. I have also noted some pretty plain stuff go for more than I'd
think when sold as a group "AF Collection!".
Also, when you sell as a group you can git rid of stuff that is hard to
sell (like, say 638 cabooses). Tough call, and it depends on what kind of
time you want to spend selling the stuff. As you already noted, the
"customizing" you did years ago will probably reduce the value too.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16322 From: Rhett T. George Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Tires
- Greeting`S' and Happy New Year -

At a Christmas party about two weeks ago, I put a good-looking 293 on
the track with a modest freight train. it did as it has always done;
it gets to a left-hand curve and heads for the ties. A day or two later
I put it on a straight and level track and found it rocked down on the
left rear or right front driver just as it had always done. Out came the
cradle and the inexpensive vernier calipers. The two front drivers and
the right rear measured about 30.7 mm. The right rear has a rubber tire.
The left rear w/o rubber tire measured 29.8 mm. Hmmmm. A dead bicycle
inner tube with way too many patches, size 26" x 1.75" seemed about the
right size. Sharp shop scissors soon gave me a band of rubber about 0.5
mm in thickness. The fit was snug, happily. Walther's Goo affixed the
band to the driver rim which seemed to have a bit larger flange than usual.
No doubt a traction band was supposed to be there.

Overnight drying enabled a test the next morning. No rock! At the head
end of the freight, it stayed on the track all the way around!

How long will this repair last? Don't know, but replacing the band every
year or so will not bother me. It looks as tho one inner tube is a lifetime
supply for all but the switching steam locomotives. The good wife has
donated a used fabric cutting wheel (a circular X-acto). Next on this
matter is to contrive a mount to hold the cutter firmly against a wood
dowel of about 30 mm diameter so that band sections with neat edges will
be rendered.

Cheer`S'
Rhett
Group: S-Trains Message: 16323 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Ebay auction
Here's a fine example of how not to auction something off on Ebay. This
completed auction was for a set with a 312 engine, passenger car,
searchlight car, and a caboose, with track, transformer, ..etc.

There were no pictures, and the description contains these gems: "This
set has no original boxes and is about 50%-70% considering the amount
of corrosion and broken parts." and "Pictures not included since most
R/R experts know what these items are and how they would look being
this old."

The minimum bid was $100 and it went for $102.50.

I would love to know what shape it was really in. Somebody either got a
bargain or zonked.

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1679339306

__________________________________________________
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Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16324 From: royhoffman Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: A Beachead
When I lived in South Jersey, I frequently went to a small old-
fashioned hobby shop in Westmont, NJ called "Sattlers". They have
exclusively sold HO and some N for years and we S Gaugers have never
convinced them to sell some S. They do sell AF on consignment, but up
till now haven't handled the new stuff. Well, I was in town for my
son's wedding and visited the shop. My eye went right to, lo and
behold, a bunch of SHS cars for sale. They said that sales were
"pretty good" and I did my part by buying 3 cars and telling them
about SHS catalogs and sets, etc.

This may not seem like much, but to me it's a big step for us.
Getting into the hobby shops is important. Anyway, if anyone is in
the area, please stop in and buy something. They are applying a small
discount to them for post-Christmas, too. With all the new products,
we still have a fighting chance to grow if we continue to work
together.

Happy New Year,
Roy
Group: S-Trains Message: 16325 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: Paint
Hi Scott,

That drier you added is, I think, a good idea. I have used 'Japan' paint drier mixed into oil-based paints in the past with good success. Haven't tried it on any rolling stock. It also would only take a drop or two into a small jar.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...>
To: "s-trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 10:10 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Paint


> I believe that Ron Leventon's paints are the dreaded "Train Enamel". I
> had painted a couple of aluminum coaches using Train Enamel. They
> didn't dry for over a year, until I finally brought them out of the
> basement into the hottest room of the house for a couple of weeks. Tom
> Jarcho had suggested adding cobalt drier to this paint, which I used
> with Train Enamel circus red and yellow and it really made a difference
> in drying time. I got a big bottle from an internet art supply. A few
> drops in each jar was enough. You can't do this with the spray cans,
> however. You can use this paint with a brush and it dries so slowly
> that the brush marks disappear. It does require several coats on
> details because it tends to run off.
>
> I'd still recommend not using this stuff. Doug Peck once announced he
> was working on a new line of paints. How's that effort going, Doug?
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
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> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
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>
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>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16326 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: Speaking of Ebay....
Hi Barry,

IMHO, unless you're talking about selling some complete sets with set box included, I believe you would get the most at auction (eBay, for example) by listing items separately. This is a more pain-staking process for the seller, however. I believe most buyers figure a sale 'lot' would have the items at a slight bargain to what they would sell individually for. It's the 'volume discount' concept most of us have. If you just want to unload it all and get what you can for it 'quick and easy', then use a Greenberg price guide to value it all, set a reasonable reserve and let it rip. I've seen plenty of estate lots for sale on eBay. Most have a reserve set as a protection to the seller so they don't go for a ridiculous amount for some odd reason.

Another approach would be to sub-divide your collection into multiple lots. You could feature a high-end item or two with the more common stuff in each lot. This concept would be a compromise between one huge lot and piece-meal. I have sometimes bought a lot to get a piece or two I wanted, then resold the rest back on eBay to get what I could for it. I think it's unavoidable for a collector to not get unwanted things in the process of collecting.

My attitude with my response to you is not to drive up prices on eBay, but to give you information to best serve you while accepting reasonable offers.

[Of course, you could donate everything to me. I'll even pay the postage if it's not too much.]

Good Luck,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: <bpx29@...>
To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 10:54 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Speaking of Ebay....


> Folks,
> I couldn't help but notice the mention of Ebay on an earlier posting. I finally began selling off a few HO items over there, after thinking about it for a couple of years. But now I thought I might ask a bit of advise from the S gauge fraternity. I'm fairly well-versed in HO scale, but am at something of a loss regarding Flyer stuff.Anyway, I have several boxes of Flyer stuff tucked away in the basement. This Christmas I finally got an old Atlantic running again after close to 40 years in storage, and plan on keeping a "Christmas tree" set of equipment for seasonal use. The rest of the old equipment though, I think I should perhaps sell off, what with tuition and other irksome expenses closing in on me. I'm not talking about any collector's dream here, but there is considerable stuff down there in the catacombs. (It's needless to add that in my pre-teen years I decided to improve some of this stuff with my own paint jobs using Pactra type paints, etc). There's perhaps 75 freight cars, quite a few link coupler versions, several Atlantics including a metal one, a pacific or two, 0-6-0t, Baldwin switcher, PA, some passenger cars, a couple of transformers, lots and lots of track and switchs, some Flyer buildings and odds and ends from Gilbert. Also, there's some manuals, catalogs, a trestle set and a video tape about the American Flyer Boy'
> s Club layout which I picked up a few years ago.Oh, and a Marx train set whose origin I can't recall at all. But it's an oldie, all metal, no plastic at all.
> What I'm wondering is, should I assemble a rumage-sale package out of this and post it to Ebay, or am I better off going bits and pieces? I'm in no urgent hurry after all these years, but then again I am interested in clearing this out.There's a good number of local swap meets in my area, but I don't know Flyer all that well, and after considerable HO exposure to these meets I'm not sure I'd want to trust some of the 'friendly local collectors'. Having seen some of these guys operate against unknowing widows in the past, I cringe at the idea of this happening to my family someday. (I did pick up a price guide, but I gather these are subject to considerable skepticism)
> What do you gents think a guy should do? Any advise would be appreciated.
> Regards,
> Barry Peltier
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16327 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: Tires
Hi Rhett,

If I understand your thinking about fixing the cutter against the dowel, maybe you could try making a wooden jig. Insert the dowel into the jig through an appropriately sized hole and have a slot for the cutter. Rotate the jig and cut the rubber. Sight unseen, this is just purely a 'WAG'.

Good luck,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rhett T. George" <rtg@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 11:42 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Tires


> - Greeting`S' and Happy New Year -
>
> At a Christmas party about two weeks ago, I put a good-looking 293 on
> the track with a modest freight train. it did as it has always done;
> it gets to a left-hand curve and heads for the ties. A day or two later
> I put it on a straight and level track and found it rocked down on the
> left rear or right front driver just as it had always done. Out came the
> cradle and the inexpensive vernier calipers. The two front drivers and
> the right rear measured about 30.7 mm. The right rear has a rubber tire.
> The left rear w/o rubber tire measured 29.8 mm. Hmmmm. A dead bicycle
> inner tube with way too many patches, size 26" x 1.75" seemed about the
> right size. Sharp shop scissors soon gave me a band of rubber about 0.5
> mm in thickness. The fit was snug, happily. Walther's Goo affixed the
> band to the driver rim which seemed to have a bit larger flange than usual.
> No doubt a traction band was supposed to be there.
>
> Overnight drying enabled a test the next morning. No rock! At the head
> end of the freight, it stayed on the track all the way around!
>
> How long will this repair last? Don't know, but replacing the band every
> year or so will not bother me. It looks as tho one inner tube is a lifetime
> supply for all but the switching steam locomotives. The good wife has
> donated a used fabric cutting wheel (a circular X-acto). Next on this
> matter is to contrive a mount to hold the cutter firmly against a wood
> dowel of about 30 mm diameter so that band sections with neat edges will
> be rendered.
>
> Cheer`S'
> Rhett
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16328 From: crustyfour Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Franklin questions
The front truck of my Franklin loco has a bad habit of coming off the
track when going around a curve. I searched the archives and found a
number of messages refering to adding weight under the pilot and
adding a spring to the front truck pivot rivet. It seems there is a
lot of slop on the front truck pivot, is there suppose to be a bushing
or spacer or something on it?

Will making the weight and spring mods keep me on track?

I also saw a comment about the first 50 Franklins being different.
How do you recognize these early ones? Are there other
changes/differences in the Franklin series? How about the matching
coaches, baggage and combine cars. Are there running diffeences in
these?

Despite its imperfect scaling, I really like the Franklin. I wish
there were more early type S trains available.

Steve
Group: S-Trains Message: 16329 From: Horn, David Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Franklin front end
I glued together a stack of progressively smaller diameter washers (starting
with one about 3/4"-1" diameter on the bottom) and then mounted them up
inside the cow catcher with a piece of aluminized duct tape across the
bottom of the catcher (It trims nicely along the edges so no one ever
notices unless you turn the engine over). That and the addition of a cone
shaped pilot spring (thread it on the long rivet by gently turning the
spring) added a lot of front end stability to my Franklin. To make the
smoke unit belches smoke I added a fifth wire. Franklins are also fussy (as
are most tenders without pick up feet) about having clean the metal wheels
on the tender. Use some ScotchBrite green non-abrasive (won't remove metal)
cleaning pad on the wheels to make them shiny, then some 91% pure isopropyl
alcohol on a Q-tip to remove any oil, and vazoom, watch that wacky
wood-burner go! Dave
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
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of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16330 From: Mark Preman Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Happy New Year! The new list is posted at:
http://www.americanflyertrains.com

Thanks to all my customers who took the sales figures
for 2001 to record heights. Vintage American Flyer
trains are alive and well and growing in the
marketplace!


=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

__________________________________________________
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Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16331 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: paint
Tom Jarcho said:
>In my view that is total cow manure. Utter nonsense.

Sorry, misspelling. Can't allow.
You meant "total cow manure. Udder nonsense."


Got trains?


Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16332 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] A Beachead!
Dear Roy,
Thank you for mentioning one of our hobby shop dealers and our product
line. I am sure you know what a struggle it is for any S gauge company to
get their products into hobby shops. I remember another NASG president
giving me some great advice on the art of selling when we were trying to
convince Walthers to start to distribute "S" again. He told me the secret
of sales is breaking the barrier of reasons to say NO. With that in mind,
we approached Walthers with the same standard HO terms as they expected from
their other manufacturers. After all, one cannot expect them to be our
distributor if it would take 137% more space in their warehouse to store our
items and then to make less per item sold.
We have found that one of the major problems with getting hobby shops to
stock S scale items, is many times the terms are not the same as for HO and
N scale. I think this has become a big problem with hobby shops stocking
brass in all scale.
Thank you again and Happy New Year!
Don Thompson

royhoffman wrote:

> When I lived in South Jersey, I frequently went to a small old-
> fashioned hobby shop in Westmont, NJ called "Sattlers". They have
> exclusively sold HO and some N for years and we S Scalers have never
> convinced them to sell some S. They do sell AF on consignment, but up
> till now haven't handled the new stuff. Well, I was in town for my
> son's wedding and visited the shop. My eye went right to, lo and
> behold, a bunch of SHS cars for sale. They said that sales were
> "pretty good" and I did my part by buying 3 cars and telling them
> about SHS catalogs and sets, etc.
>
> This may not seem like much, but to me it's a big step for us.
> Getting into the hobby shops is important. Anyway, if anyone is in
> the area, please stop in and buy something. They are applying a small
> discount to them for post-Christmas, too. With all the new products,
> we still have a fighting chance to grow if we continue to work
> together.
>
> Happy New Year,
> Roy

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 16333 From: Daniel Neumayer Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Wonderful products and service from S-Helper
I'm sure my subject line is not news to most readers of this list,
but still, when people go the extra mile to satisfy a customer they
deserve recognition. My story is long and involved, but the short
version is that the folks at S-Helper converted the new F3 units I
got from one of their dealers to DCC for me at no charge except for
shopping. But when I got them back, they didn't function and it was
only days before I had 15 people coming over to see my trains. Don
and Robyn not only fixed the units (at no charge for service OR
shipping) they even Fedexed them back to me overnight so I would have
them for my train party. They also did several little thinks to make
up for any mistakes they had made. Thank you!

As for the F3 A&B units: They are gorgeous!!! This is my first
experience with DCC sound and it is great fun. There are many options
for sound and lights. My B&O units are beautiful to behold and work
flawlessly. I couldn't ask for more. S-Helper is providing products
that rival brass at a fraction the price. And now that they provide
pre-installed DCC, I'll be forced to buy everything they make :-)

Thanks again, Don and Robyn

-Daniel
--
Group: S-Trains Message: 16334 From: Robert Jackson Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] A Beachead!
Don Thompson wrote:

> We have found that one of the major problems with getting hobby shops to
> stock S scale items, is many times the terms are not the same as for HO and
> N scale.

This point is often (usually!) lost during the discussions of how to promote S
scale. I can affirm what Don states concerning dealer discounts (markups) for
most S scale products is less than for most HO or N scale products. That was
our experience in nearly nine years of hobby retailing. Because we were S
scalers we stocked it anyway, but you can hardly expect that of the typical
hobby store owner. Now what is that old saying, I can't remember it exactly.
Something about shoveling stuff against the tide.
Bob Jackson
Group: S-Trains Message: 16335 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1265
Repainting trains, cleanup touch up, their are plenty of trains to
enjoy, the way you want. I paint a lot of common cars in to new road
names. Being retired from the COORS Brewing Co. I have painted a fleet
of COORS Refrigator cars.
Also being a TCA member (Honorary Member) every car I paint, touch, fix,
change parts or add new parts I place a TCA " ALTERED TINPLATE "
sticker on the bottom of the car. TCA will ban a member from the TCA
for selling altered trains ( not marked as such) at a TCA meet. For
those of you not familiar with buying use ( collectable trains ), their
are numerous antique dealers, toy dealers, toy train dealers, etc,etc,
that will sell you " the original in the box special " just wafting for a
sucker to come along, it's blatant on E-Bay. Only buy rare and
collectable expensive pieces from a reputable dealer. You can buy a lot
of things off E-bay, at a good price (?), depends on what you want and
how much you want to spend. To many articles in THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
about investing in old toys have changed our hobby. Everyone has his/her
way to enjoy trains. it's a shame that greed has crept in to our hobby.


Happy railroading, modeling , collecting. It will be good in the future
with all of the new manufactures producing new items.

Jerry 77-11644
________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16336 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] A Beachead!
While your points about shoveling whatchamacallit against the tide are correct
in relation to the discounting, there is more to it than just discounting.
As a sales manager for a major company in a prior life, I learned a few other
reasons for why dealers will carry your products.
Other than discounting, a dealer will decide based on their ROI or return on
investment. If the product turns fast enough due to demand, dealers will stock
it even with smaller margins. Look at the grocery business that turns product
with less than 5
% margins in some areas--volume counts. Other factors will enter such as whether
or not they like S guage as we all do or even if they like the person offering
S for sale. Personalities will make a lot of deals fly or die. I have often
said, people will buy for their reasons, not yours.
If dealers see people purchasing enough of a product, they will want it on their
shelf to keep buyers from going somewhere else. They will also want to be on
the latest trend if people show a migration to a product. Showing it at every
opportunity counts, so do those shows guys. If you go into dealers without
S let them know what you and your friends have been buying so they will see
lost sales.
Maybe we cannot change the tides, but we can build breakwaters to help control
the flow.
Howard Sheffiel
Howard' S Trains

>Don Thompson wrote:
>
>> We have found that one of the major problems with getting hobby shops
to
>> stock S scale items, is many times the terms are not the same as for HO and

>> N scale.
>
>This point is often (usually!) lost during the discussions of how to promote
S
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16337 From: rodgers_carl Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1265
Good point! I hear the Fine Art World has a similar problem. It's too
bad they don't have a TCA ( what ever that is), to print and
distribute little stickers that say, "FORGED WORK of ART". Then they
could expel any forger for failing to put stickers on the backs of
their MONA LISAS!


--- In S-Trains@y..., Gerald R Dobbs <grdobbs@j...> wrote:
>
>
> Repainting trains, cleanup touch up, their are plenty of
trains to
> enjoy, the way you want. I paint a lot of common cars in to new
road
> names. Being retired from the COORS Brewing Co. I have painted a
fleet
> of COORS Refrigator cars.
> Also being a TCA member (Honorary Member) every car I paint, touch,
fix,
> change parts or add new parts I place a TCA " ALTERED TINPLATE "
> sticker on the bottom of the car. TCA will ban a member from the
TCA
> for selling altered trains ( not marked as such) at a TCA meet. For
> those of you not familiar with buying use ( collectable trains ),
their
> are numerous antique dealers, toy dealers, toy train dealers,
etc,etc,
> that will sell you " the original in the box special " just wafting
for a
> sucker to come along, it's blatant on E-Bay. Only buy rare and
> collectable expensive pieces from a reputable dealer. You can buy a
lot
> of things off E-bay, at a good price (?), depends on what you want
and
> how much you want to spend. To many articles in THE WALL STREET
JOURNAL
> about investing in old toys have changed our hobby. Everyone has
his/her
> way to enjoy trains. it's a shame that greed has crept in to our
hobby.
>
>
> Happy railroading, modeling , collecting. It will be good in the
future
> with all of the new manufactures producing new items.
>
> Jerry 77-11644
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16338 From: Robert Jackson Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] A Beachead!
Howard Sheffield wrote:

> <snip> If the product turns fast enough due to demand, dealers will stock
> it even with smaller margins. <cut>

Howard,
Your quite right in your observations. The above is the key and it is very
difficult to compare the hobby business with others. For one thing it is highly
seasonal, and the successful so-called full service shop will necessarily stock not
only model trains, but a number of other hobby interests in an effort to fill in the
dry spells of one interest with the peaks of another. For another, and this is
particulary true of model railroading, the prices of most of the product are well
known and usually printed right on the box. That means the shop owner can only lower
the price to induce volume. He however can't lower his cost except in a limited
fashion. Hobby business, particularly as it relates to model railroading, works for
the most part with the retailer buying the product at 60 percent of the retail
price. A product that turns only 3 times in a year is essentially a break even
product. It requires 4 turns (the jargon for replacement of a like item after the
first sale) to begin to show a profit. The ability of the shop owner to stimulate
demand in the hobby business is quite limited except during the Christmas selling
season which often contributes as much as half of the stores yearly intake. One of
the ways to stimulate demand is seen almost every day in the fashion clothing
business where a new product is advertised at perhaps 200 percent of its cost. A few
sales at that level offsets a big part of the cost of product. Then follows a series
of sales with ever decreasing cost until "CLEARANCE" at which time the items are
often selling at near cost to the dealer. He/she has already made his/her profit and
wants space for the next assault. This is not a tactic that is commonly available to
the hobby dealer, especially in the smaller markets, which is where the majority of
the dealers are. I will stop here because this list is about S scale and not about
hobby retailing, but it would behoove us to learn something about retailing if only
to give pause to the exhortations to pressure your local dealer. That has only a
very low probability of being helpful.
Bob Jackson
Group: S-Trains Message: 16339 From: milorod@aol.com Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Re: running 'long stored' trains
In a message dated 1/2/02 1:34:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:

<< running 'long stored' trains >>
Paul, great instructions keep up the good work

Milo
J&M Custom Model Train Layouts
http://members.aol.com/milorod/jm.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 16340 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: New Orleans Follow-Up
My wife and I had a great time in New Orleans last November, due in no small
part to the members of the TCA and S-Trains lists who profferred lots of
NOLA info and some who even invited me into their homes while I was there.

There are a number of pictures and a bunch of text and I thought it would be
too cumbersome for the files sections on these lists so I posted them on a
free web page. Take a look at http://www.boomspeed.com/busyboy/index.html .

Let me know what you think.
Thanks,
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16341 From: bassflyer Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: Speaking of the Franklin......
My six year old daughter and I were wandering around K-MART the
other day, and was in the electrical dept. looking at extension cords
when something caught my eye on the top shelf. I had to do a double-
take,...couldn't believe what I saw!! Two boxes of green flood light
fixtures with long cords! Pretty exciting huh?? But wait,...there's
more! On each box was a picture of an American Flyer Franklin sitting
on four pieces of curved AF track, under a Christmas tree!! I will be
going back to see If I can get one of those boxes.


Regarding the first 50 Franklins,...didn't they have FIFTY or
somethin' in the tender??

Happy New Year to all!!

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16342 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: FLOODLIGHT CAR
Anyone have a #24549 Erie floodlight car in E or better cond?? That they
would like to Sell.... With the box would be a plus Thank You Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16343 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: FLOODLIGHT CAR
I forgot NO PIKEMASTER.... Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16344 From: Horn, David Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Re: Nawlin's Pix
Chris,

Terrific pics. Thanks. I was there in early December, but only had an hour
and a half free time one afternoon. I wandered over from my hotel to the
Riverside area. I saw the trolleys, a long freight (mostly canister cars,
but still cool because you're so close to the train) getting shuttled about
by a double-headed switcher, an aircraft carrier getting gently put into
port by tugs, and a great paddle-wheel powered riverboat complete with a
real steam calliope atop (what a great sound, the organist was playing
'working on the railroad' as I walked into the district, dreamy). I'm not
sure the riverboat is actually steam powered or not, but the paddle-wheel
appeared to make it move. Neat. Not bad for a last minute stroll before
jetting out. Maybe next time I'll have the privilege of meeting up with
some of the S-gaugers you did. Happy New Year!

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Zizzo [mailto:Busyboy@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 9:11 AM
To: crescentcitys; ljaneski@...; Norman Maunz; Allen Evans;
mmbushnell@...; Jay E. Mellon; Russell E. Trahan, Jr.
Cc: AFSGAUGE@...; David_Horn@...; Bill McKie;
Boss31@...; JPCNOTAX@...; ARANDALLW@...; mmbushnell@...;
callall@...; choomeyer@...; busyboy@...;
garymccullah@...
Subject: Nawlin's Pix


Hi:
If you go to http://www.boomspeed.com/busyboy/index.html
you can see my wrap up of my trip to New Orleans in November, including the
Lone Star TCA show.

Let me know what you think and if you want copies of any pix I will set you
up for that.

Thanx again to all of you who made my trip so much fun!

Chris Zizzo
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16345 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: SHS 2001 Christmas Car
If someone has one for sale, please contact me off-list.

Thorin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16346 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] New Orleans Follow-Up
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Brown
To: Chris Zizzo
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] New Orleans Follow-Up


Hi Chris,

Nice job setting up the web page. I stole your background picture and it is now wallpaper on my PC! I may color it in a little to suit my formatting. Looks like you had a great time and milked the most from that one. Even though I've been in 49 states myself, I'm still envious.

Best regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
To: "TCA" <toytrains@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 10:52 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] New Orleans Follow-Up


> My wife and I had a great time in New Orleans last November, due in no small
> part to the members of the TCA and S-Trains lists who profferred lots of
> NOLA info and some who even invited me into their homes while I was there.
>
> There are a number of pictures and a bunch of text and I thought it would be
> too cumbersome for the files sections on these lists so I posted them on a
> free web page. Take a look at http://www.boomspeed.com/busyboy/index.html .
>
> Let me know what you think.
> Thanks,
> Chris Zizzo
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16347 From: Alex Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Re: New Orleans Follow-Up
Thanks for great photos Chris! Judging by your experience and enthusiasm, I
think you'd enjoy a visit to the Seashore Trolley Museum here in southern
Maine (Arundel/Kennebunkport) too!

-- Alex .-.-.

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Zizzo [mailto:busyboy@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 10:53 PM
To: TCA
Cc: slist
Subject: [S-Trains] New Orleans Follow-Up


My wife and I had a great time in New Orleans last November, due in no small
part to the members of the TCA and S-Trains lists who profferred lots of
NOLA info and some who even invited me into their homes while I was there.

There are a number of pictures and a bunch of text and I thought it would be
too cumbersome for the files sections on these lists so I posted them on a
free web page. Take a look at http://www.boomspeed.com/busyboy/index.html .

Let me know what you think.
Thanks,
Chris Zizzo



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16348 From: Scott Brown Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] A Beachead!
Just a comment about retailing of S gauge products. Our club sponsor, Train
Depot of Manassas, Va. told me that the newer S gauge items such as S
helper, do not sell, but that original American Flyer items sell rather
quickly. He had stocked several of the S helper items a few years ago and he
was right that they sat for well over a year on his shelves taking up space
and no one bought them until he had 20 % discount sale. And even then it
took a couple of months at that price to clear it all out.The same held true
for several LTI engines and cars he had. They sat for several years until
the sale last year. Now, he will order anything we want from S helper or
American Models, but he won't stock it. He still has several large boxes of
K Line AF track sitting in the store that no one has purchased for at least
2 years. On the other side of the story, Grandad's Hobbies in Alexandria,
Va. has recently begun to stock S helper cars and track. He is selling
everything at list price, so I will be interested to see if it moves or just
sits. But at least he is stocking a good amount of it.

Scott Brown
Atlantic Coast S Gaugers
Washington & Old Dominion Division

----- Original Message -----
From: "Howard Sheffield" <hjinrosvle@...>
To: "Robert Jackson" <rwjaxon@...>; "Don Thompson"
<robin@...>; "royhoffman" <rhoffman@...>; "S Scale
group" <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com>; "S-Train" <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>;
"Showcaselin e_group" <showcaseline@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: [S-Scale] A Beachead!


> While your points about shoveling whatchamacallit against the tide are
correct
> in relation to the discounting, there is more to it than just discounting.
> As a sales manager for a major company in a prior life, I learned a few
other
> reasons for why dealers will carry your products.
> Other than discounting, a dealer will decide based on their ROI or return
on
> investment. If the product turns fast enough due to demand, dealers will
stock
> it even with smaller margins. Look at the grocery business that turns
product
> with less than 5
> % margins in some areas--volume counts. Other factors will enter such as
whether
> or not they like S guage as we all do or even if they like the person
offering
> S for sale. Personalities will make a lot of deals fly or die. I have
often
> said, people will buy for their reasons, not yours.
> If dealers see people purchasing enough of a product, they will want it on
their
> shelf to keep buyers from going somewhere else. They will also want to be
on
> the latest trend if people show a migration to a product. Showing it at
every
> opportunity counts, so do those shows guys. If you go into dealers
without
> S let them know what you and your friends have been buying so they will
see
> lost sales.
> Maybe we cannot change the tides, but we can build breakwaters to help
control
> the flow.
> Howard Sheffiel
> Howard' S Trains
>
> >Don Thompson wrote:
> >
> >> We have found that one of the major problems with getting hobby
shops
> to
> >> stock S scale items, is many times the terms are not the same as for HO
and
>
> >> N scale.
> >
> >This point is often (usually!) lost during the discussions of how to
promote
> S
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Free Domain Name Registration with Web Hosting at Lanset Communications.
> 56k Dialup, Web Design, and Colocation at http://www.lanset.net
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16349 From: hsjobbins Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: The Big-E Train Show
Happy New Year All,
Was looking to confirm dates for the February Big E train show in
West Springfield MA. Thks Steve J.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16350 From: royhoffman Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] A Beachead!
I was talking about hobby shops in NJ, but the same scenario can be
played out in any other part of the country. The local hobby shops in
Southern NJ are aware of a competitor in Gibbstown, NJ: Chick's
Hobbies. Chick sells racing equipment and HO and N like most shops,
but with one big exception. He specializes in S. He stocks mainly
highrail, but gladly converts the non-SHS equipment to scale if
desired. He's also an important part of the SJSG club. The thing is
that he is proof that it can work. In the end it's up to us as
consumers to buy the S whenever a hobby shop stocks it. I passed the
word about Sattler's on the train lists and I hope that we all can
tip each other off whenever we see S in a store. I'm going to try to
get up to Granddad's Hobbies from Richmond when I can. Like Don T.
said: "Kill all the excuses!"

Roy

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Scott Brown" <sbrown56@e...> wrote:
> Just a comment about retailing of S gauge products. Our club
sponsor, Train
> Depot of Manassas, Va. told me that the newer S gauge items such as
S
> helper, do not sell, but that original American Flyer items sell
rather
> quickly. He had stocked several of the S helper items a few years
ago and he
> was right that they sat for well over a year on his shelves taking
up space
> and no one bought them until he had 20 % discount sale. And even
then it
> took a couple of months at that price to clear it all out.The same
held true
> for several LTI engines and cars he had. They sat for several years
until
> the sale last year. Now, he will order anything we want from S
helper or
> American Models, but he won't stock it. He still has several large
boxes of
> K Line AF track sitting in the store that no one has purchased for
at least
> 2 years. On the other side of the story, Grandad's Hobbies in
Alexandria,
> Va. has recently begun to stock S helper cars and track. He is
selling
> everything at list price, so I will be interested to see if it
moves or just
> sits. But at least he is stocking a good amount of it.
>
> Scott Brown
> Atlantic Coast S Gaugers
> Washington & Old Dominion Division
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Howard Sheffield" <hjinrosvle@l...>
> To: "Robert Jackson" <rwjaxon@e...>; "Don Thompson"
> <robin@s...>; "royhoffman" <rhoffman@i...>; "S Scale
> group" <S-Scale@y...>; "S-Train" <S-trains@y...>;
> "Showcaselin e_group" <showcaseline@y...>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 8:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: [S-Scale] A Beachead!
>
>
> > While your points about shoveling whatchamacallit against the
tide are
> correct
> > in relation to the discounting, there is more to it than just
discounting.
> > As a sales manager for a major company in a prior life, I learned
a few
> other
> > reasons for why dealers will carry your products.
> > Other than discounting, a dealer will decide based on their ROI
or return
> on
> > investment. If the product turns fast enough due to demand,
dealers will
> stock
> > it even with smaller margins. Look at the grocery business that
turns
> product
> > with less than 5
> > % margins in some areas--volume counts. Other factors will enter
such as
> whether
> > or not they like S guage as we all do or even if they like the
person
> offering
> > S for sale. Personalities will make a lot of deals fly or die. I
have
> often
> > said, people will buy for their reasons, not yours.
> > If dealers see people purchasing enough of a product, they will
want it on
> their
> > shelf to keep buyers from going somewhere else. They will also
want to be
> on
> > the latest trend if people show a migration to a product.
Showing it at
> every
> > opportunity counts, so do those shows guys. If you go into
dealers
> without
> > S let them know what you and your friends have been buying so
they will
> see
> > lost sales.
> > Maybe we cannot change the tides, but we can build breakwaters to
help
> control
> > the flow.
> > Howard Sheffiel
> > Howard' S Trains
> >
> > >Don Thompson wrote:
> > >
> > >> We have found that one of the major problems with getting
hobby
> shops
> > to
> > >> stock S scale items, is many times the terms are not the same
as for HO
> and
> >
> > >> N scale.
> > >
> > >This point is often (usually!) lost during the discussions of
how to
> promote
> > S
> >
______________________________________________________________________
_
> > Free Domain Name Registration with Web Hosting at Lanset
Communications.
> > 56k Dialup, Web Design, and Colocation at http://www.lanset.net
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
Group: S-Trains Message: 16351 From: Horn, David Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Trains on TV
FYI, I saw briefly lastnight that The Learning Channel (TLC) will be running
a special on great train wrecks (if there is such a thing) Sunday 8:00 p.m.
EST January 6.
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16352 From: david_garber2000 Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Big E train Show
Feb. 2&3 this is a BIG SHOW and is always good
. Over 20000 sq ft with a lot of layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 16353 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1266
Carl Rodgers: TCA is the Train Collectors Association, A fine
group of people, Incorporated in 1954, To preserve an important segment
of history - toy trains - through research, establishment of
collection standards, education, community outreach, fellowship and to
promote the growth and enjoyment of the hobby. 5 color magazines, plus
the national headquarters news, 6 per year ( 40 pages of trains for sale
+ free listing of trains you want to sell), + entrance to all of TCA
shows, a convention in a different state each year, train collecting and
touring, including the BIG one at York Pennsylvania Fair grounds ( 6 huge
buildings fill of trains ). York also has 4 days of train trading at 4
big shows open to the public (FREE) before the TCA show. York PA is the
place to be, April & Oct if you like trains. UNBELIEVABLE !!!

TCA may not be for every one, easy to join, easier to be ban.
misrepresenting, bad cheques, not being honest with your fellow
collector, etc,etc. I love it.

TCA National Headquarters
PO Box 248, 300 Paradise Lane
Strasberg, Pa. 17579

Jerry member #77-11644
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16354 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Seaboard Coaler by Lionel
Hi everyone,

Could some of you who received the new Lionel Seaboard Coaler please
give us a review of how you like it and how it compares to the original.


Thank you,

Wayne Broadhead
Group: S-Trains Message: 16355 From: Paul Yorke Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: stored loco 'updated'
I re-worked the 'stored loco' pages
I put the lube stuff on it's own page.
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/lube/stored.html
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/lube/lube.html
Thanks to Tom Jarcho and several other I was able to add some
improvements.

Please let me know if I missed something.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16356 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1266
Hi Carl,

I've wanted to join TCA for about a year now, but there just isn't anyone near me to sponsor me. Does anyone out there know what I should do (about joining TCA)?

Thanks,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald R Dobbs" <grdobbs@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1266


>
> Carl Rodgers: TCA is the Train Collectors Association, A fine
> group of people, Incorporated in 1954, To preserve an important segment
> of history - toy trains - through research, establishment of
> collection standards, education, community outreach, fellowship and to
> promote the growth and enjoyment of the hobby. 5 color magazines, plus
> the national headquarters news, 6 per year ( 40 pages of trains for sale
> + free listing of trains you want to sell), + entrance to all of TCA
> shows, a convention in a different state each year, train collecting and
> touring, including the BIG one at York Pennsylvania Fair grounds ( 6 huge
> buildings fill of trains ). York also has 4 days of train trading at 4
> big shows open to the public (FREE) before the TCA show. York PA is the
> place to be, April & Oct if you like trains. UNBELIEVABLE !!!
>
> TCA may not be for every one, easy to join, easier to be ban.
> misrepresenting, bad cheques, not being honest with your fellow
> collector, etc,etc. I love it.
>
> TCA National Headquarters
> PO Box 248, 300 Paradise Lane
> Strasberg, Pa. 17579
>
> Jerry member #77-11644
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16357 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: reverse unit drum repair
It is not a good idea to repair the pits in a reverse unit drum with epoxy.
Epoxy is soft and will soon be pulverized by the contact fingers and
spread all over the drum, interfering with all finger-drum contact.

The most practical solution is to buy another drum. They are readily
available. Remove both top and bottom finger boards, spread the unit's
sides slightly, remove the old drum, and snap in the new one.

Another solution would be to add plastic to the pits, attaching it with
heat or cement., and then sand it to shape. This might work if the plastic
you used was hard enough.

Let this be a reminder to all that when soldering to a finger contact that
is already in place on the unit, the heat can easily damage the drum. To
prevent this, place a small piece of thin card stock between the drum and
the fingers before soldering. This will block the soldering heat from
being transmitted through the finger to the drum.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 16358 From: Steve Blancard Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: 336 Loco in a local antique shop
I happned to be browsing a local antique shop the other day and to my
surprise the proprieter had six AF locos for sale. Most prominent was a
nice looking 336 Northern. I imagine just about everyone would like to
have one of these big fellas in their collection, I'm no exception. I'd
like to ask your opinion of this engine and what is the expected price
range. It looked to be in nice shape but I didn't look real close. I
may go back on Saturday and take another look. What should I look for
? His prices for all the engines seem on the steep side to me but I'd
appreciate your thoughts.

In addition to the 336 he has a 282, a 325AC, a 326, a 293 and a 312.
Comments on these engines are also welcome.

Thanks,
Steve
Group: S-Trains Message: 16359 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1266
TIM...WHERE ARE YOU?...LET US KNOW THE AREA AND SOMEONE CAN LET YOU KNOW
ABOUT THE NEXT TCA MEET ....GO THERE AND THEY WILL HELP YOU JOIN UP....BOB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "Gerald R Dobbs" <grdobbs@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1266


> Hi Carl,
>
> I've wanted to join TCA for about a year now, but there just isn't anyone
near me to sponsor me. Does anyone out there know what I should do (about
joining TCA)?
>
> Thanks,
> Tim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gerald R Dobbs" <grdobbs@...>
> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 6:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1266
>
>
> >
> > Carl Rodgers: TCA is the Train Collectors Association, A fine
> > group of people, Incorporated in 1954, To preserve an important
segment
> > of history - toy trains - through research, establishment of
> > collection standards, education, community outreach, fellowship and to
> > promote the growth and enjoyment of the hobby. 5 color magazines, plus
> > the national headquarters news, 6 per year ( 40 pages of trains for sale
> > + free listing of trains you want to sell), + entrance to all of TCA
> > shows, a convention in a different state each year, train collecting and
> > touring, including the BIG one at York Pennsylvania Fair grounds ( 6
huge
> > buildings fill of trains ). York also has 4 days of train trading at 4
> > big shows open to the public (FREE) before the TCA show. York PA is the
> > place to be, April & Oct if you like trains. UNBELIEVABLE !!!
> >
> > TCA may not be for every one, easy to join, easier to be ban.
> > misrepresenting, bad cheques, not being honest with your fellow
> > collector, etc,etc. I love it.
> >
> > TCA National Headquarters
> > PO Box 248, 300 Paradise Lane
> > Strasberg, Pa. 17579
> >
> > Jerry member #77-11644
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
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> > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
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> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16360 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1266
In a message dated 1/3/02 8:13:44 PM, Timboy@... writes:

<< I've wanted to join TCA for about a year now, but there just isn't anyone
near me to sponsor me. Does anyone out there know what I should do (about
joining TCA)?
Thanks, Tim >>

Tim:

Please contact the TCA business office --

TCA National Headquarters
PO Box 248, 300 Paradise Lane
Strasburg, Pa. 17579
717-687-8623

Ask them to send a membership form and application information to you. It may
take a couple of short phone conversations, but I believe that you can easily
find two members of the S-Trains board to supply the sponsoring signitures
for your application.

Hope this helps.

RB

Member# 94-38531
Group: S-Trains Message: 16361 From: Gary Chidester Date: 1/3/2002
Subject: Broken resolution
I didn't last very long on my new years resolution! I have to bid on this,
or maybe not chance the bid and use the buy it now option.

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1683293365


I forgot, you can't see my lips move as I type this. I am being as
sarcastic as this person is optimistic!

gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 16362 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: Re: Scale wheel sets and Hi-rail turnouts
Dear Tom,
I am sorry to report, that once switches are retrofitted, they will not
accept AF comp. wheels. It is either one or the other, the same for all open
frog switches. I will admit, that we did not consider the code 110 wheel when
we designed the #3 switch as I had never seen one in use in any scale layout
(HO included) as the angle is very sharp and would not be able to handle cars
longer than 40' with KD body mounted couplers.
Don

Thomas Davis wrote:

> Don, Glad to here that the new #3 and #5 switches will handle both scale and
> Hi-rail wheel sets. But for those of us who have already bought #3's, I
> have 2LH and 1RH, will we be able to retrofit them to take scale wheels?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Tom Davis, Brevard,NC
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 16363 From: Horn, David Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: 336 and other engines
"In addition to the 336 he has a 282, a 325AC, a 326, a 293 and a 312.
Comments on these engines are also welcome."

The 336 is a great engine. When in good tune you can count on it being
fast, strong, smooth, and smokey. Gotta love it. Even on ACG 20" radius
turns with no straights added in mine runs fine. Price varies a lot on
condition (no duh), but plan on somewhere in the $385-$500 range, more if
you want pristine with wrapper, etc. If you don't know how to assess the
condition, especially its running gear, I'd recommend you have someone go
with you who can. Repairs on these monsters can be expensive if, for
example, driver wheels are loose/ruined and no longer useable since they're
different than those on other ACG steam engines). In any case, have a
transformer (even small one's OK, e.g. 1-1/2B) and leads to test the engine
before buying.

The 28X and 29X engines are some of my favorite runners. They're generally
reliable, well balanced, and easy to work on. Depending on the model and
condition (there I go again) the price will vary, but the ball-park is
typically $85-$145 for VG+ to E.

A large motor (3/4" winding) 326 Hudson will pull the wallpaper off your
house. But as with 336 it has some of the most complex running gear and
should be carefully scrutinized before purchase. Prices are about $275 on
average.

312 - - very nice looking and lots of fun to run. Two of my favorite
engines to run are my large motor 313 and smoke in tender 312. The early
K-5's and Hudsons with SIT can be some of the smoothest runners because they
had bushings in the chassis for the axles whereas later ACG dropped that and
axles simply run in the softer parent metal of the chassis :( Price depends
on SIB or SIT, condition, etc., but $150 is about right for a nice 312.

Have fun,
Let us know how they run.

Dave
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16364 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: Re: 336 and other engines
Check to make sure that the 336 has the large motor and a working
whistle. The absence of either would decrease it's value.

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Group: S-Trains Message: 16365 From: David Dewey Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: Fw: 1959 Frontiersman Box
Anyone help this guy out?
S'
David D.
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Green Family" <msgreen@...>
To: <S-Trains-owner@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 5:46 AM
Subject: 1959 Frontiersman Box


To: S-Trains-owners,

I am looking to buy a nice 20550 Frontiersman Box. I own two sets and would
like to store one in a box. So far I haven't any luck so far. I found this
web site so I could get my message out. Any help for me to find a box would
greatly be appreciated.

Thank you,

Mike Green
Group: S-Trains Message: 16366 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: BOXES
Here is an address & phone # for a guy that "Deals" boxes

patb@... (707) 8230399 7134 Raymond Rd

Sebasttopol, Ca 95472

I looked on his list of boxes but the # you are looking for was not there
but the list is 2yrs old He deals mainly in boxes Prices for set boxes
seemed reas. $25.00 up All depends on what you think is reas.
Mike S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16367 From: Horn, David Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: FW: Running long stored trains
Meant to include "the list" on this. Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Horn, David
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 10:45 AM
To: 'yorke@...'
Subject: re: long stored trains


Thanks Paul for keeping so much great information organized and easily
available. If you would please, delete the section in my lubrication notes
on using Wahl's oil on track. Since then I've learned a much better set of
steps to follow. The oil was a problem with some steel-wheeled AM and SHS
engines without Pulmor or Gription. I've found it better to keep the rails
clean with green pad and/or alcohol instead of out anything oily or abrasive
(including erasers with their pumice/grit). That in conjunction with clean
pick-up wheels makes up for any advantages of using clipper oil.

Please replace my Wahl's clipper oil comments with the following:
"If your rails have any black gunky build-up or minor rust, first clean them
with a green Scotch Brite pad (at grocery stores or the paint department of
Home Depot) then wipe them down with a rag moistened with 91% isopropyl
alcohol. As often as possible before you run your trains, wipe the rails
down with 91% alcohol. It helps to keep them shiny silver and your trains
running great."

Also, please allow me to suggest that you add some comments about removing
old congealed Vaseline/grease before applying any new lubrication, and to
clean pick up wheels (diesel drivers, tender metal wheels) as well. Here
are a couple of suggestions:

"Before running an engine that's been stored for awhile, remove the pan
cover from the bottom (if it is a steam engine or remove the side frames in
the case of a Gilbert diesel) and look for old, hardened/congealed Vaseline
or grease on the drive gears. Remove as much of this with a toothpick as
possible before applying any new grease or oils. Old lubricants may have
changed into a nearly putty-like material which will now act against the
motor rather than help it."

"Key to having a long-stored engine run well is good power pick-up from the
rails. Clean all the wheels (except any rubber pulmor wheels) on your
engine (and tender in the case of a steam engine) with 91% isopropyl on a
cotton Q-tip swab. This is easiest to do on diesels while the side frames
are off. If at first you notice a lot of old black dried up gunk on a
wheel, hold a small flathead screwdriver against the wheel's rim while your
turn the wheel set. That will "lathe" off that nasty layer of crust. Then
follow up with the alcohol on a Q-tip. To get a nice shine on metal wheels,
first use a bit of green Scotch Brite pad, then wipe clean with alcohol on a
Q-tip. Engines with clean wheels, especially clean metal pick-up wheels,
run much better than those with dirty ones."

The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16368 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: WHEELS
Hi,
I have noticed that some "Pick-up" wheels are brass or bronze more
on the engines and some are steel more on the pass cars and cabooses Was
this a war time thing or just a cost saving thing

Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16369 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1267
Steve; the 336 is a beautiful locomotive, the largest AF ever built.
But as far as running it has a lot to be desired. It would be more
comfortable on 80" radius curves, it has a large motor so under a hard
load it has a tendency to clime switches and curves, it has a wide swing
and will hit most anything near the track as it goes around the curves,
if you don't have one, you need at least one.

Jerry 77-11644
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16370 From: bilfrazier Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: Parts wanted
I'm looking for some tough to find parts.

PA10549 Magnet Cover, for the DC field used on the DC steam locos.

Wire cage that fits over the vacuum tube on a #14 or #16 rectiformer.

As as I know, no one reproduces these items, and I have not been able
to find any used ones. Any ideas guys?

Thanks,

Bill Frazier
Group: S-Trains Message: 16371 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: Christmas tree operators
For those of you that only get to put trains up at Christmas(like me).When
you start taking them down to pack up for another year,remember it is not
too early to start thinking about Mr.Hildebrand's trains for kids program.If
you have a few pieces of track , a small transformer,a piece of rolling
stock or even a loco that you dont use much,or just don't think you will
miss much if you didn't have it ,DONATE IT!!You can contact me off list for
the address to send it to.

p.s.He accepts repairable stuff

Thanks,



Keith


_________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16372 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: Re: Christmas tree operators
Kieth: I am a christmas tree operator. Must say I don't care much for that
term -- my operating is just as good and interesting as any permanent
layout.

If/when I am struck by an(other) urge to change the world, I generally slip
some of my friends among the honeless and working poor people in my
neighborhood a few bucks and keep my Atlantics. They can't afford
electricity anyway, let alone decent housing and a stable family situation
to enjoy electric trains in.

Tom Jarcho.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16373 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: Re: Christmas tree operators HERE HERE
Hi Tom & all,,
I have to comment on your post Tom. I don't want
to start an argument here but, having worked with Keith & Joe's Train Repair
in a round about way. The donating of Atlantic's to the homeless is a
joke...What I believe the trains, track, transformers & smoke Fluid(to be
sold to buy parts with the $) is to put broken (then repaired) unused trains
into the hands of children that may not have had the chance to receive one...
Rather than a toy truck or doll a train set is given to a child who may not
otherwise ever own one.. This list has in the past wondered how to introduce
trains (of our scale hopefully) to children and spark an interest in trains
again> Keith can better tell you how many children (&their familles)
received a train this last year.... I can say without being to far off that
out of the 600 or so members on this list there may be a car or two that has
sat for years without the wheels,trucks or couplers gatering more dust than
value...the ones with the broken steps, even the caboose's are turned into
ore cars to make up a string of cars...even the parts that are saved & never
used because not many of us feel right about throwing away any part of a
train no matter how twisted , bent or "useless" it is....It might be used to
repair a car or engine for a child that has those not so "In mint or E cond
Eyes"..... Enough from me Also this was not directed at you Tom but all of
us...You just got me to open my big mouth.... Mike S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16374 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: Thanks, Don
It's no secret that I'm a proud member of the S-Helper Service fan club, and I feel compelled to relate my most recent positive experience with Don Thompson.

I have pulled my Union Pacific F-3 locomotive set out of its box so many times to show it off that I recently broke off one of the windshield wipers. I e-mailed Don to ask about a replacement, and he told me to check under the controller unit in the set box. Sure enough, there were two small bags containing replacement wipers*four each for both right and left windows.

It's attention to this type of detail and consideration for the model owner that have earned Don and SHS a sterling reputation. Please don't ever leave us, Don. You really are a tremendous asset, and your little company continues to bring us a lot of joy. You newbies out there can't go wrong by starting to build your SHS collection.

By the way, here's my tip for the day. The broken windshield wiper still had its mounting post imbedded in the body of my F-3, and I had to get it out before I could put in the replacement. I used the smallest (#10) drill in my set of dentist's finger drills, the ones they use to make the hole in your tooth during a root canal. The drills come in various sizes, and are perfect for making teensy holes in plastic. Ask your dentist for an old used set. If you're like me, and have put his kids through college, he ought to be happy to give you a set.

John Eichmann
Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers
Boise, Idaho
Group: S-Trains Message: 16375 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1267
In a message dated 01/04/2002 1:33:57 AM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> Let this be a reminder to all that when soldering to a finger contact that
> is already in place on the unit, the heat can easily damage the drum. To
> prevent this, place a small piece of thin card stock between the drum and
> the fingers before soldering. This will block the soldering heat from
> being transmitted through the finger to the drum.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
>
> Another option is to make sure all four fingers are on the metal part of
> the drum and don't use over a 25 watt soldering iron. Totally unnecessary.
....Steve

>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16376 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/4/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1267
>> Another option is to make sure all four fingers are on the metal part of
>> the drum and don't use over a 25 watt soldering iron. Totally unnecessary.
>....Steve


Unfortunately, soldering wires to the fingers while they are over the
metal parts of the drum can cause these metal parts to sink into the drum
as the plastic underneath them melts. I have repaired quite a few that had
had this happen.

Not recommended.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 16377 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: FLYER WHISTLES AND HORNS TUTORIAL NEEDED
I need some info on Flyer Horns and Whistles that were
on board flyer engines.

1)314AW vrs other steam engines: I added one of
these to my collection as I was told it was the only
flyer whistle that sounded anything like a train
whistle. I was told that other flyer Air Chime
Whistles actually sounded only like buzzers rather
than a whistle. Is this true?

2)I have finally added a Diesel to my all steam fleet.
I could not resist the T & P GP7 when I saw it in
person at a resent GATS show. It has an onboard horn.
To operate it I need a horn contol . Is this the same
control as an Air Chime Whistle? I know my whistle
control for my 314AW will not operate it. I have
purchased an RFG controller for Air Chime Whistles,
but I notice they list another for diesel horns.

Any info you can provide on the above questions will
be most appreciated.



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Group: S-Trains Message: 16378 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Re: FLYER WHISTLES AND HORNS TUTORIAL NEEDED
In a message dated 1/5/02 10:46:05 AM, semaphoresam@... writes:

<< I was told that other flyer Air Chime Whistles actually sounded only like
buzzers rather than a whistle. Is this true? >>

Well, yes, kinda, but the result does vary with speaker type and condition,
and the condition of the vibrator in the Air Chime whistle/diesel horn
controllers. Some dislike the sounds of the Gilbert whistles and horns, but I
rather like some of them (nostalgia at work?), particularly in many of the
Alcos -- the PA body is an effective resonating cavity of reasonable size. I
do have the whistle/horn stuff operable on my Flyer layout and enjoy it -- a
neat feature because a lot of folks skip doing this.

Regrettably, none of the Gilbert whistles match a good-working Lionel air
whistle for a tinplate sonic experience. And, the Railsounds 4.0 whistles in
the better new Lionel O gauge engines are the leading edge, if simulating
realism is your desire. The whistles in my Lionel Century Club 773 Hudson,
NYC Niagara, and PRR T-1 Duplex are all different, really something, and
leagues ahead of what is available in S gauge in the engine-born noise maker
department (the Gilbert 'choo-choo' excepted, of course!). Pity.

<<2) I have finally added a Diesel to my all steam fleet. I could not resist
the T&P GP7 when I saw it in person at a resent GATS show. It has an onboard
horn. To operate it I need a horn contol. >>

Yeah, I love the T&Ps, too! Yes, you will need a No. 708 vibrator style
controller to actuate the horn in your T&P. Getting a controller with a good
vibrator will be key -- be sure to get some assurance from your seller about
whether or not it works. The vibrators can be pulled apart, cleaned, and
regapped, but having one that works to start with is preferable. BTW, please
be attentive to the condition of your speaker -- the speakers are more prone
to failure in the 474/475, in my experience.

Hope this helps.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 16379 From: Neil Trump Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Re: FLYER WHISTLES AND HORNS
I am still running my 326 around the Christmas tree track ( except that the
tree has now gone) and decided to connect up the whistle controller just to
see if it still worked OK. What I noticed and now remember after many years
of not using it, is that when running the loco at a slow speed and sounding
the horn, the speed of the loco stays near enough the same. But I did
notice that the lights in the h/weights were brighter. Am I right in
thinking that the whistle controller, while increasing the frequncy for the
horn to operate, also increases the voltage as well? Also, if I run the
loco at a higher speed and operate the controller, the loco drops in speed
but the lights in the cars still glow a bit brighter. Again, if the
controller does increase the voltage, is the trade off having less current
getting to the loco which causes it to go slower at the higher transformer
setting?

Neil T.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16380 From: Robert E. Yablonski Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Seaboard Coaler by Lionel
I received my Coaler yesterday. I set it up on the carpet next to the Xmas
train. I did not run any coal thru it, but the action is nice and smooth.
The CAN motor has to be better than the old AF style motor. The bucket did
hang up inside the tower if it was run against the stop. It would then have
to be helped out of the tower. I do not have an older unit to compare it
to.

I also purchased the MTH Coaling Tower. It runs way too slow as many of you
have noted.

I am still upset about my Lionel Sawmill. My first unit destroyed the
gears. The second unit is not adjusted correctly and hangs up as it is
pushing the plank out. I think a bit of string streching is in order.

Robert E. Yablonski
Group: S-Trains Message: 16381 From: Robert E. Yablonski Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Empire State Express
I wish to thank Ron Bashista at American Models for his efforts in shipping
my Empire State Express before Christmas. My wife had ordered the set a bit
late. Ron made sure it arrived here for my enjoyment.

I set it up under the black Grand Piano in my living room. What a contrast,
all that shiny chrome and the big black ebony piano.

The set is one of the finest running unit I have. I hooked it up to my old
12B transformer. It ran smoothly from the transformer start voltage of
8.4Vrms to the maximum of 17.4Vrms. At all speeds it was in control of the
AM track. Wonderful clicks could be heard as the wheels passed over the
track sections. I did not pump out any smoke because this is forbidden on
the white carpet.

Ron be proud you have done a fine model for us to enjoy.

Robert E. Yablonski
Group: S-Trains Message: 16382 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Re: FLYER WHISTLES AND HORNS
Neil Trump says:
>when running the loco at a slow speed and sounding
>the horn, the speed of the loco stays near enough the same. But I did
>notice that the lights in the h/weights were brighter.
> if I run the
>loco at a higher speed and operate the controller, the loco drops in speed
>but the lights in the cars still glow a bit brighter.

The reason for this is that lights like added DC and the mototr doesn't
respond as well to having AC and DC at the same time.

The Flyer horns work by impressing a DC voltage over the AC running voltage.
The DC locks up the horn relay, thus the horn blows. Adding DC to a motor
running on AC will slow it down, but the extra voltage brightens the lights.
If you blow the horn while the train is standing still, the lights will
light from the DC. If the train is going exceptionally slowly, the DC burst
may actually speed it up.

That's it.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16383 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Tom Barkers book
Does any know if this has been released again? Not the cd,the paperback.



Keith


_________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16384 From: Neil Trump Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Fw: FLYER WHISTLES AND HORNS
> I thought that the horns worked on a 600+/- cycle frequency and that the
> capacitor and resistor acted as a filter to block the 60 cycle frequency.
> I don't see how the vibrator creates any DC voltage, can someone explain
> this for me please (confused).
>
> I understand how the 314AW functions, because this does have to apply a DC
> voltage to hold in the relay, I also understand that the 'Lionel'
railsounds
> also needs a small DC voltage to trigger the sounds.
>
> Neil T.
>
> >
> > The Flyer horns work by impressing a DC voltage over the AC running
> voltage.
> > The DC locks up the horn relay, thus the horn blows. Adding DC to a
motor
> > running on AC will slow it down, but the extra voltage brightens the
> lights.
> > If you blow the horn while the train is standing still, the lights will
> > light from the DC. If the train is going exceptionally slowly, the DC
> burst
> > may actually speed it up.
> >
> > That's it.
> >
> > Chris Zizzo
> >
> >
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16385 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Re: FLYER WHISTLES AND HORNS
--- Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...> wrote:
> The Flyer horns work by impressing a DC voltage over the AC running
> voltage. The DC locks up the horn relay, thus the horn blows. Adding
> DC to a motor running on AC will slow it down, but the extra voltage
> brightens the lights. If you blow the horn while the train is
> standing still, the lights will light from the DC. If the train is
> going exceptionally slowly, the DC burst may actually speed it up.

Only the 314AW whistle works by imposing a DC signal onto the AC power.
All the others, including the one in a 326, work by superimposing an AC
vibration, noise, or buzzing onto the ac power. This signal is
basically reproduced by the speaker.

Since the power used to supply this signal comes from the fixed post it
will usually cause everything to get a little more power when the
variable power is at low. I'm not sure what principle is involved when
the transformer is on high to make the engine slow down.

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Group: S-Trains Message: 16386 From: Alan C Udy Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Solder Blobs for Tender Axle Wipers
An antique mall had a 287 Pacific with a Reading (yes, that's right,
from an Atlantic) tender. It's home now, $54 + tax. And it runs right
from the box, so to speak. No need for internet buying, the fun is in
the finding. You never know where American Flyer will show up.

The tender axle wipers have a blop of solder for the axle to rub. I have
never seen or heard of this before. The solder being softer (and
replenishable) than the phosphor bronze wiper and the steel axle does
make a little sense, minimizing wear on the original parts. Are there
any other solder blobs out there in Flyerland trying to aid the
conduction of power for American Flyer engines? It would seem that with
wear, a little lead from the solder is going to be left behind in the
ballast.

By the way, the traction tires are on the front drivers, and one side rod
is installed backward.

Alan Udy
Idaho Falls, ID
________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16387 From: Neil Trump Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Re: FLYER WHISTLES AND HORNS
I thought that the horns worked on a 600+/- cycle frequency and that the
capacitor and resistor acted as a filter to block the 60 cycle frequency.
I don't see how the vibrator creates any DC voltage, can someone explain
this for me please (confused).

I understand how the 314AW functions, because this does have to apply a DC
voltage to hold in the relay, I also understand that the 'Lionel' railsounds
also needs a small DC voltage to trigger the sounds.

Neil T.

>
> The Flyer horns work by impressing a DC voltage over the AC running
voltage.
> The DC locks up the horn relay, thus the horn blows. Adding DC to a motor
> running on AC will slow it down, but the extra voltage brightens the
lights.
> If you blow the horn while the train is standing still, the lights will
> light from the DC. If the train is going exceptionally slowly, the DC
burst
> may actually speed it up.
>
> That's it.
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16388 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Looking for AF website
Several months ago I was using a couple of search engines to check
out various AF websites. I stumbled upon one that had photos for
each AF engine type. The photos had legends that listed the various
engine numbers (with years produced, options and rarity) for each
type engine. The site also had similar information for AF rolling
stock and accessories. Unfortunately I did not record the name of
the website and haven't been able to find it since.

Do any of you recall seeing this website and do you have the name? I
think all AF fans would enjoy this site.

Thanks for your help!

BG1
Group: S-Trains Message: 16389 From: mlmarmer Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Vintage American Flyer Trains
http://hometown.aol.com/cliffgarz/AmericanFlyer.html

This may be the site with the locomotive pictures and other things BG 1 is looking for.

I hope this helps you.

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16390 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Re: Looking for AF website
BG1

This is another site that could be the one you found, it has photos and
legends

Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "bull_gator_1" <bull_gator_1@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 7:08 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Looking for AF website


> Several months ago I was using a couple of search engines to check
> out various AF websites. I stumbled upon one that had photos for
> each AF engine type. The photos had legends that listed the various
> engine numbers (with years produced, options and rarity) for each
> type engine. The site also had similar information for AF rolling
> stock and accessories. Unfortunately I did not record the name of
> the website and haven't been able to find it since.
>
> Do any of you recall seeing this website and do you have the name? I
> think all AF fans would enjoy this site.
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> BG1
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16391 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Re: Looking for AF website
I'm Getting quick with the send button the site is
http://www.geocities.com/bastards_retreat/index.htm

Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "bull_gator_1" <bull_gator_1@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 7:08 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Looking for AF website


> Several months ago I was using a couple of search engines to check
> out various AF websites. I stumbled upon one that had photos for
> each AF engine type. The photos had legends that listed the various
> engine numbers (with years produced, options and rarity) for each
> type engine. The site also had similar information for AF rolling
> stock and accessories. Unfortunately I did not record the name of
> the website and haven't been able to find it since.
>
> Do any of you recall seeing this website and do you have the name? I
> think all AF fans would enjoy this site.
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> BG1
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16392 From: ron inscho Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Re: Solder Blobs for Tender Axle Wipers
It sounds to me like this engine was built from an accumulated pile of parts
by some amature & solder blobs on the wipers are just the first indication.
You will need to install the rod in the right direction & then check for any
other improper repairs or modifications. Good luck. Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan C Udy" <nsupbnsf@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 6:19 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Solder Blobs for Tender Axle Wipers


> An antique mall had a 287 Pacific with a Reading (yes, that's right,
> from an Atlantic) tender. It's home now, $54 + tax. And it runs right
> from the box, so to speak. No need for internet buying, the fun is in
> the finding. You never know where American Flyer will show up.
>
> The tender axle wipers have a blop of solder for the axle to rub. I have
> never seen or heard of this before. The solder being softer (and
> replenishable) than the phosphor bronze wiper and the steel axle does
> make a little sense, minimizing wear on the original parts. Are there
> any other solder blobs out there in Flyerland trying to aid the
> conduction of power for American Flyer engines? It would seem that with
> wear, a little lead from the solder is going to be left behind in the
> ballast.
>
> By the way, the traction tires are on the front drivers, and one side rod
> is installed backward.
>
> Alan Udy
> Idaho Falls, ID
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16393 From: Knight, Gene Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Help with wiring
Can someone explain how to wire the semaphore? I had one given to me
with no instructions or trips etc. It does work....I know that much.

Thanks

Gene
Group: S-Trains Message: 16394 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/5/2002
Subject: Re: FLYER WHISTLES AND HORNS
Sorry, I misspoke.
I don't know the frequency exactly of the oscillator/vibrator in Flyer
horns, but yes, it imposes a higher frequency signal, with the same results
as I described. Lionel used DC and still does, thus the modern Flyer makes
use of DC for this purpose. The 314AW was essentially a Lionel designed
whistle. I can't say for sure, but I'd bet it would respond to the whistle
button on a Lionel transformer.

BTW, for those in the know, do diesel horns blow constantly under DC
operation or not?
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16395 From: Neil Trump Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Rivets and bushings
A few days ago there was talk about the new replacement plastic bushings melting when soldering on the wires to the rivet.
A solution to this could be to pre-solder the rivet head prior to installation. Once the rivet is installed it will not require excessive amounts of time with the soldering iron heating up the rivet and bushing. The wire(s) can be soldered onto fresh solder in a matter of a couple of seconds.

Neil T.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16396 From: trzp1800 Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Re: Looking for AF website
I have found this website to be fairly comprehensive. Got it from
Paul's S-Trains site.
Regards,
Ted

http://www.amerflyer.com/


--- In S-Trains@y..., "bull_gator_1" <bull_gator_1@y...> wrote:
> Several months ago I was using a couple of search engines to check
> out various AF websites. I stumbled upon one that had photos for
> each AF engine type. The photos had legends that listed the
various
> engine numbers (with years produced, options and rarity) for each
> type engine. The site also had similar information for AF rolling
> stock and accessories. Unfortunately I did not record the name of
> the website and haven't been able to find it since.
>
> Do any of you recall seeing this website and do you have the name?
I
> think all AF fans would enjoy this site.
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> BG1
Group: S-Trains Message: 16397 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: 720 controllers
I have a pair of 720 switches. They came with a pair
of 720A controllers which I understand are NOT to be
used with them. My question is, can I use a 697 or
670 track trip to automatically throw these switches
the way I have some 720A's hooked up? THANKS!

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16398 From: Paul Yorke Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Re: Tom Barkers book
--- Keith Kuzma <keithkuzma@...> wrote:
> Does any know if this has been released again? Not
> the cd,the paperback.

In my contacts with Tom, he has indicated no plans to
republish the book in paper form.

=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

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Group: S-Trains Message: 16399 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Re: 720 controllers
There is no reason why you can't use the 720A controllers with them.
It's the opposite configuration (720 controllers with a 720A switch)
that shouldn't be used. The 720 controller stays closed when switched,
but the matching 720 switch cuts off the power to the solenoid when it
switches. The problem with this was that if the 720 didn't completely
switch there was no power now to the solenoid and the big hand from the
sky had to intervene to complete the throw. The redesigned 720A switch
does not cut power to the solenoid so that as long as the controller
was activated, the solenoid was active and this would ensure that the
switch got switched. The 720A controller only activated when the handle
was held all the way at the end of its travel and once the switch had
switched, the operator lets go the handle, which retreats and breaks
power to the switch coil. Using the 720a controller with a 720 switch
is ok since both the controller and the switch break the power after
the throw, but the 720 controller can't be used with the 720A switch
since neither one breaks the power to the solenoid and it will burn
out.

You could use the track trips to power 720 switches, but I wouldn't
recommend it for the same reason; an incomplete throw is possible and a
train wreck is likely. I'd recommend using the 720A controllers to
operate them and be on the lookout for incomplete throws.

--- Michael Christensen <semaphoresam@...> wrote:
> I have a pair of 720 switches. They came with a pair
> of 720A controllers which I understand are NOT to be
> used with them. My question is, can I use a 697 or
> 670 track trip to automatically throw these switches
> the way I have some 720A's hooked up? THANKS!
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
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>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
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>
>


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Group: S-Trains Message: 16400 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: test
This is a test only.
Rance
Group: S-Trains Message: 16401 From: David Dewey Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Re: 720 controllers
Early 720 switch controllers CANNOT be used with later switches (both later
720s and 720As).These controllers are easily identified, as the control
levers do not rest at center, but are always thrown one direction or the
other. They provide constant power to the switch coil, and will burn out the
later switches. The early switches have a built in disconnect switch in
them, which can be a real pain (if the switch stalls half-way through, then
both coils are disconnected and you have to manually finish throwing the
switch).
The later, self-centering controllers can be use with early or late
switches. As a matter of practicality, I would not use the early switches on
a layout, unless you put them in a very hand place to manually work them.
I'll have to dig through my switch piles and see if I can note an easily
seen external difference for identification of the early switches. "Film at
eleven" (Ie: I'll look later today--if I remember!)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16402 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Re: 720 controllers
Hi David,

Okay, Are you talking about the unlighted controllers vs. the lighted ones? Are the unlighted ones the 'early' controllers? I've never noticed any problems using the unlighted controllers. In fact, I like them better 'cuz there are no hot bulbs to burn out and melt the plastic (there is a fix for that, tho').

Thanks,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "Michael Christensen" <semaphoresam@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] 720 controllers


> Early 720 switch controllers CANNOT be used with later switches (both later
> 720s and 720As).These controllers are easily identified, as the control
> levers do not rest at center, but are always thrown one direction or the
> other. They provide constant power to the switch coil, and will burn out the
> later switches. The early switches have a built in disconnect switch in
> them, which can be a real pain (if the switch stalls half-way through, then
> both coils are disconnected and you have to manually finish throwing the
> switch).
> The later, self-centering controllers can be use with early or late
> switches. As a matter of practicality, I would not use the early switches on
> a layout, unless you put them in a very hand place to manually work them.
> I'll have to dig through my switch piles and see if I can note an easily
> seen external difference for identification of the early switches. "Film at
> eleven" (Ie: I'll look later today--if I remember!)
> S'
> David D.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16403 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Re: New Orleans Follow-Up
Chris:
Enjoyed the show! Tx for taking time to set it up and show the rest of us! Anyone
know of anything in the Northern Virginia-southern MD area happening between Feb 10
and 20th? I will be visiting and staying in Arlington, VA for that time. I will
also be "working" a few days at NIST, but that will be determined depending on what
is happening. I know most of the hobby stores (Mt Airy, around the beltway, etc.)
as I used to live in Gaithersburg, MD, but I am not too familiar with Northern VA
area.
Tx for info.
Rance Velapoldi

Note to Mike Mr, I will try to get up to Germantown for a visit one day after work at
NIST, and will contact you off line.

Chris Zizzo wrote:

> My wife and I had a great time in New Orleans last November, due in no small
> part to the members of the TCA and S-Trains lists who profferred lots of
> NOLA info and some who even invited me into their homes while I was there.
>
> There are a number of pictures and a bunch of text and I thought it would be
> too cumbersome for the files sections on these lists so I posted them on a
> free web page. Take a look at http://www.boomspeed.com/busyboy/index.html .
>
> Let me know what you think.
> Thanks,
> Chris Zizzo
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16404 From: TED R LARSON Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Fw: Re: vehicles
I've inserted come comments, see below. Ted Larson

________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 21:08:11 -0500
> From: Ken Garber <kgarber@...>
> Subject: Vehicle Summary
>
> Package label Cat. Num. Vehicle Underside
> Description
> ------------------- -------------
> ------------------------ ---------------------
> Maisto MotorWorks 15080-1600 #8 Ford Interceptor Police Car
> Hwy. Ptrl. K-9 (2 car set) Chevy
> Caprice Police Car - Springfield

The Maisto website shows a modern police car and several other modern
vehicles that appear to be fairly realistic looking, similar to the
better Matchbox cars.
http://www.maisto.com/products/products.asp?search=Five%20Star%20Series#

http://www.maisto.com/
The website also shows 1/72 nd scale airplanes. Since we're not
airplane modelers, a bit of selective compression here might suit our
needs quite well.



>
> Jeep
> Grand Cherokee
> Imported by " Welly 2044
> Ford 1998 Expedition
> ToysRUs, Canada
>

The Welly website
http://www.wellydiecast.com/sitemap.htm
lists several modern vehicles in 1/60th scale. The photos look very
good.


I did not yet find website info for any of the other items that Ken
reported on.

=====
Ted Larson

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Group: S-Trains Message: 16405 From: David Dewey Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Re: 720 controllers
Tim,
The unlighted controllers (with the plastic handles) are the late,
five-diget controllers. The early 720 controllers look just like the 720A
controllers, except in the manner in which the handles are at rest, the
don't center, but stay to one side or the other.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16406 From: Dale Smith Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Toy Train Exhibit in Palo Alto, CA
For those of you in the San Francisco Bay Area, I found the following announcement in the San Mateo Times.

Museum
Lionel, American Flyer, Marx and lves - remember those wonderful trains that fascinated you as a child? The Museum of American Heritage features the childhood favorite in their latest exhibit, "Toy Trains." Interactive exhibits include the operation of trains and accessories to demonstrate the evolution of toy trains. Displays include wood, paper, plastic or metal trains: some are hand-powered and others are operated by springs or electricity. Hours are 11 a.m. to 4 p.m. Fridays through Sundays at 351 Homer Ave., Palo Alto. Admission Is free. For more information, call (650) 321-1004 or visit http://www.moah.org .

Dale Smith
Pacifica, CA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16407 From: Horn, David Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Operating caboose "silencer"
Is the best way to reduce/eliminate ACG operating caboose buzzing (all the
time with power) and chattering (as when going over switches for example) to
install a bridge rectifier as I think shown somewhere on Paul Yorke's web
site? Thanks for your help.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16408 From: trzp1800 Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Has anyone reviewed these Service Manuals?
Hi:
Have any of you looked at the TRP "Original Gilbert American Flyer
Trains Exploded Views and Parts Lists" or the "A.C. Gilbert's Postwar
American Flyer S-Gauge Reference Manual", by R.A. Hannon? I have the
K-Line "Complete Service Manual" black book, Jeff Faust's little book
and Greenberg's "Repair and Operating Manual", and of course, all you
folks. Will these other two books add essential information to my
"keep 'em running" library?

Thanks in advance.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16409 From: David Dewey Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: More on early 720 switches and later 720s.
HI all,
OK, I've been doing more research. Based on what I have on hand here,
Black rail track 720 switches have the internal disconnect switch and use
the early controller that doesn't have levers that spring back to center.
Silver rail switch so far are all the later style without the internal
switch. This doesn't mean that there aren't any vice-versa! There is an easy
way to check too! turn switch over, directly under the direction lamp are
two insulated rivets, these hold the lamp socket in place. On the early
switches with the built in disconnect, there is a wire soldered to the rivet
next to the edge of the switch base. This wire disappears under the overlaid
cover panel. The later switches have no such wire!
Now, If you want to use your early 720 switches and don't like the "suddenly
no power" feature, you can disassemble the switch, solder a wire from the
lamp base rivet (on top of the existing wire) and solder it to the two wires
going to the switch from the coil. Now the coil is constantly connected to
the base wire, and you must use the later momentary-contact type controller.
Is this clear as mud????
It is a tribute to the ACG engineers that they reworked this cumbersome,
complicated design to make the 720A switch within the constraints of the
original housing parts. The later design is MUCH better--now if they had
just kept the narrow roadbed design of the earlier switch housing!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16410 From: jahoozdumm Date: 1/6/2002
Subject: Re: FLYER WHISTLES AND HORNS
Chris Zizzo <busyboy@o...> wrote:

>I don't know the frequency exactly of the oscillator/vibrator in
>Flyer horns, but yes, it imposes a higher frequency signal,


Well, kinda. It's a bit more complex than that. When the control
button is pressed, the vibrator literally switches the "hot" rail
back-and-forth between the transformer's variable and full voltage
terminals. It does this at a rate that is locked into the 60 cycle
AC, because the full output terminal is also where the voltage to
drive the vibrator reed coil comes from. If the reed contacts are
adjusted "properly" (and that can be an elusive window), there will
be a small dead spot between the two contact extremes when neither
contact is closed, causing an open circuit (zero voltage) "gap" in
each half of the sine wave. (Hopefully, the loss of power resulting
from this gap will be compensated for during the cycle when the full
voltage terminal is in play. Certainly that was Gilbert's hope. It
actually depends on the throttle setting, assumming proper contact
adjustment.)

Anyway, the result of chopping this gap into the smooth sine wave is
to insert into the track voltage a complex series of higher
frequencies called "harmonics", so-called because they are multiples
of the 60 cycle frequency that generated them. These harmonics are
what get through the "low-cut" filter comprised of that capacitor
connected to the speaker. So you hear that good old "HONK!",
or "HANK!", or "GZZZZWRRRP!" depending on how the vibrator contacts
are adjusted.

For a short time, Gilbert did make an electronic whistle control that
used a bona-fide electron tube oscillator, which put out a signal of
about 600 hertz, independent of wall current frequency. It's a whole
different animal than the usual vibrator control. It needed its own
120V connection to the wall, and mixed its signal to the track
voltage by putting both through an internal coupling transformer.


>BTW, for those in the know, do diesel horns blow constantly under DC
>operation or not?

The vibrator/oscillator-operated horns don't.

Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16411 From: lawrence Jackman Date: 1/7/2002
Subject: Re: Thanks, Don
I do not think you are talking about a drill. It is a grinding burr.
Thank you Larry Jackman

JOHN EICHMANN wrote:
wiper still had its mounting post imbedded in the body of my F-3, and I
had to get it out before I could put in the replacement. I used the
smallest (#10) drill in my set of dentist's finger drills, the ones they
use to make the hole in your tooth during a root canal. The drills come
in various
Group: S-Trains Message: 16412 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/7/2002
Subject: Re: Operating caboose "silencer"
David Horn asks:
> Is the best way to reduce/eliminate ACG operating caboose buzzing to
>install a bridge rectifier?

David:
In the recent lengthy AC/DC discussions, this issue came up and mention was
made that the caboose heats up excessively running on full DC. It would
need to be "rested" on an unpowered side track. One alternative offered was
to use a half wave bridge diode rectifier without a capacitor. A resistor
may also be needed to reduce the voltage a little. After you experiment with
this and come up with a solution, perhaps you will post the better way for
the rest of us.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16413 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/7/2002
Subject: Disney Monorail
A while back we discussed the 1/64th. scale Disney Monorail. I got this
from a carnival ride aficionado's site. There is a picture there too,
showing the monorail set up under the Christmas tree! Go to:
http://members.aol.com/surfdancec/models.htm for the full experience.

This toy monorail is a replica of the Mark VI monorails that exisit at Walt
Disney World. A set comes with an oval track and one momorial train.
Additional track pieces can be purchased. New in late 2000 are replicas of
Spaceship Earth at EPCOT and Disney's Contemporary Resort, near Magic
Kingdom. Monorails travel through these pieces. The original toy monorail
had a red strip, the ones currently being sold having a black stripe. Each
toy has a light in front, and plays parts of the monorail narration. It can
run forward or backward and is battery operated.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16414 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/7/2002
Subject: Parts needed
Anyone have a spare tender chassis with drawbar for a SIB 312 that they
wish to part with? Also could use an original 312 trailing truck.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO
Group: S-Trains Message: 16415 From: bassflyer Date: 1/7/2002
Subject: 682 members in S-Trains......
I haven't been checking the group's numbers lately,...and was
surprized to see that we are up to 682 members now!!

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16416 From: srgriggs Date: 1/7/2002
Subject: Re: FLYER WHISTLES AND HORNS
--- In S-Trains@y..., "jahoozdumm" <eighthmile@m...> wrote:
>
> For a short time, Gilbert did make an electronic whistle control
that
> used a bona-fide electron tube oscillator, which put out a signal of
> about 600 hertz, independent of wall current frequency. It's a whole
> different animal than the usual vibrator control. It needed its own
> 120V connection to the wall, and mixed its signal to the track
> voltage by putting both through an internal coupling transformer.
>
>
> >BTW, for those in the know, do diesel horns blow constantly under
DC
> >operation or not?
>
> The vibrator/oscillator-operated horns don't.
>
> Chuck F.


Chuck,

Do you have any experience with the 1950 "electronic whistle"? Does
it produce a more realistic whistle sound compared to the later (and
simpler) 708 and 710 controls? I've never heard one.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16417 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/7/2002
Subject: operating caboose "silencer"
David : I have silenced 2 or 3 of my own action cabooses with diode
bridges and have not seen any signs of an overheating problem in them
since. I don't run my trains around and around so much, more often from
place to place, and hardly ever run one continuously for more than 10
minutes , unless I'm testing something. Also, my track plans tend to have
a lot of curves, so the train speed usually doesn't get too high. Perhaps
if a silenced caboose were run for a long time and/or at high speed, the
overheating would be more likely to occur.

One of the diode bridges failed, and had to be replaced. This was the
Radio Shack #726-1161 1 amp bridge mentioned by Barker in his book. This
model is no longer made. 4 or 5 amp bridge does a better job. None of
those have failed on me yet.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 16418 From: garydmccullah Date: 1/7/2002
Subject: 21158
I have a 21158 0-6-0 that is cosmetically in good condition. It
runs a little rough. It was part of a grab-bag of S stuff I bought
sometime back.
Would anyone out there be interested in it? The 2002 Greenberg
Pocket Price Guide suggests a range of $40(good) to $135(excellent).
Is this a fair price range? If not, what would be a fair price?
Gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 16419 From: jahoozdumm Date: 1/7/2002
Subject: Re: FLYER WHISTLES AND HORNS
srgriggs asked:

>Chuck,

>Do you have any experience with the 1950 "electronic whistle"?

Other than coming across the unit from time-to-time at train meets,
no.

>Does it produce a more realistic whistle sound compared to the later
>(and simpler) 708 and 710 controls?

Judging from the schematic I've seen of it, the oscillator should
produce something fairly close to a sine wave at about 6oo hertz.
That would sound like a pure tone, a little like a single-chambered
whistle without the rushing steam sound. It would definitely sound
more whistle-like than the vibrator controller, which seems to mimic
an air horn.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16420 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 1/8/2002
Subject: CHRISTMAS LAYOUTS
Thanks to Bob Paul, our club Christmas
layouts are shown on the club page under
"MEMBERS MODULES".
North Penn S Gaugers website at:
http://npsg3.homestead.com/files/npsgi.htm

Family Heritage Restaurant, Franconia, PA,
is offering us the center of their banquet room
again this year for our 16' x 24' modular layout.
Friday, January 25 5:00pm to 9:00pm
Saturday, January 26 9:00am to 1:00pm.

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn
Group: S-Trains Message: 16421 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/8/2002
Subject: Electronic Whistle control
I've got one of these, but I can't get it to do anything. Does anybody
have any experience or advice for repairing them?

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Group: S-Trains Message: 16422 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/8/2002
Subject: All good things . . .
All good things come to those who wait!

I am finally clearing out a pile of magazines and junk and I have found
items thought long lost.

In earlier discussions, members of these two lists (this is a cross-post to
S-Trains and TCA ToyTrains) had indicated a desire to examine:

1.) The LIRR, NY&ARR freight division transition materials, including route
maps and other details acquired by me during the filming of Woody Allen's
"Sweet & Lowdown" at the Fresh Pond yards.

2.) The NMRA DCC basics manual for S-Scale acquired by me during a seminar
at NASG in 2001.

I don't remember who wanted these things. Both items have a lot of pages
and I would gladly fax you every one. However, if you contact me off list,
perhaps we can discuss what you really want and then I'll send that along.

Thanks for waiting. Now all you have to do is remember that you were the
one who wanted them. Hurry up, before I lose them again!

Two to go,
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16423 From: garydmccullah Date: 1/8/2002
Subject: 21158
My thanks to the seven people who have responded to my posting.
I have received several good offers, money as well as trade.
Let me give it some thought and I'll notify everyone as to who gets
it and you can get mad at him, not me.
Gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 16424 From: Neimanis,V. [NCR] Date: 1/8/2002
Subject: Help with wiring a semaphore
Message: 12
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 00:12:26 -0500
From: "Knight, Gene" <knight@...>
Subject: Help with wiring

Can someone explain how to wire the semaphore? I had one given to me
with no instructions or trips etc. It does work....I know that much.

Thanks

Gene
_____________________________________________________________________
I checked my publications and can offer the following advice:

1) Isolate the section of track by fibre pins on the "base" side of the
rail.
2) Use a 707 track clip (or alternative method) to connect the white wire
from the semaphore to the insulated section of the base rail.
3) The red wire goes to the control box (under red button)
4) The green wire goes to the control box (under the green wire)
5) Yellow from both the control box and semaphore go the post (15 or 17V) of
transformer
6) The black wire from the semaphore goes to base post of transformer

Then push the buttons and all should go!

If you have more questions, maybe contact me off line.

V. Neimanis
Group: S-Trains Message: 16425 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/8/2002
Subject: Cow on track
I need a little help on estimating the value of a Cow on track. It
looks really nice, but has one of the screw bosses for the solonoid
mount plate broken and there is a little scuffing on the cow that is
visible in pic cowb

Pictures are at:

http://www.perryisp.net/~mkiner/cowbottom.jpg
http://www.perryisp.net/~mkiner/cowa.jpg
http://www.perryisp.net/~mkiner/cowb.jpeg

There is a yellow arrow in pic cowbottom pointing to the broken boss.

I bought this on e-bay and just got it today. I e-mailed the seller
and he seems very cooperative and wants me to let him know what I
think it is worth and if he thinks it is a fair price he will refund
the difference of the auction amount.

I don't honestly believe he was aware of the broken boss and
described it in the auction as "better than excellent condition"

Thanks for you help,

MK
Group: S-Trains Message: 16426 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 1/8/2002
Subject: Stud/steam drive wheel
Greetings, working on a 290 ... both of the studs (round top) have stripped
screw holes. The wheels are in good shape otherwise ... does anyone have a
couple of studs they would be willing to part with or a suggestion for
repair?
Thanks, Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 16427 From: David Dewey Date: 1/8/2002
Subject: Re: Stud/steam drive wheel
Charlie,
Lok-tite has a product, "thread restorer" that I think would work fine
here. The stress on the siderod screw is light, and this would be much
easier than wheel or stud replacement. Should be found in any full-service
auto parts dealer.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16428 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/8/2002
Subject: stud/steam drive wheel
Those studs are press fits and can be pried and/or yanked out and replaced.
jTom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 16429 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: Re: Stud/steam drive wheel
Hi David,

I sometimes used white Teflon tape, found in the plumbing section of any home-improvement store.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "Charlie&Edith" <Chancock@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 1:39 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Stud/steam drive wheel


> Charlie,
> Lok-tite has a product, "thread restorer" that I think would work fine
> here. The stress on the siderod screw is light, and this would be much
> easier than wheel or stud replacement. Should be found in any full-service
> auto parts dealer.
> S'
> David D.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16430 From: joe messinger Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: 336 Whistle
A friend of mine recently brought over his 336 for a tune up and mentioned
that the whistle didn't work. I discovered that the whistle was missing
from the tender. Seems, some time ago, my friend had work done on his
engine at a train shop and the repairman removed the whistle?? Anyway, we
now have the whistle and I'll replace it but being that I've never worked
on one of these things (whistle) I'm knda'in the dark on what to expect.
I'm not sure if we have all of the components. I haven't been able to find
much information on Flyer whistles in the repair manuals that I have. I
think I know the basic principal of it's operation but any advice someone
might offer would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Joe Messinger


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16431 From: crustyfour Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: 336 whistle
Joe,

Were you able to get a new speaker for the 336? I had the tender of
my newly acquired 336 apart the other day and noticed the speaker was
damaged. I could use a new one. Mine seems to have all the parts but
I don't know enough about how it works to offer any advice. I'm sure
others can help out with that. I'd like to learn about it too.
Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 16432 From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: Trip Troubles
Hi All

I am asking this question for a friend, He has a American Flyer layout
and is using crossing gates wired per the Flyer Instruction Booklet. He
is not using a 697 but has it wired like Sam and the Talking station. It
is setup using a isolation track section etc. Everything operates fine
with any of his Gilbert engines but his new SW9 will not trip the gates
? I emailed Don Thompson he emailed me back to say the SW9 probably
doesn't draw enough current to operate the trip. Doug Peck also agreed
about the current draw but had no solution. Has anyone had this problem
or have any ideas on what he can do to get the SW9 to operate the gates.


Thanks AL
________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16433 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: Re: Cow on track
Well the feeback to this point is that this item is essentially
worthless and I should send it back to it is worth $75.00 to $80.00.


Thanks, and does anyone else have any input?


MK

--- In S-Trains@y..., "robbe_wan" <Negative_Pitch@h...> wrote:
> I need a little help on estimating the value of a Cow on track. It
> looks really nice, but has one of the screw bosses for the solonoid
> mount plate broken and there is a little scuffing on the cow that
is
> visible in pic cowb
>
> Pictures are at:
>
> http://www.perryisp.net/~mkiner/cowbottom.jpg
> http://www.perryisp.net/~mkiner/cowa.jpg
> http://www.perryisp.net/~mkiner/cowb.jpeg
>
> There is a yellow arrow in pic cowbottom pointing to the broken
boss.
>
> I bought this on e-bay and just got it today. I e-mailed the seller
> and he seems very cooperative and wants me to let him know what I
> think it is worth and if he thinks it is a fair price he will
refund
> the difference of the auction amount.
>
> I don't honestly believe he was aware of the broken boss and
> described it in the auction as "better than excellent condition"
>
> Thanks for you help,
>
> MK
Group: S-Trains Message: 16434 From: TWesthelle@aol.com Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: Canadian Pacific Flat Trees/Repo/ for AF 24558
Wonder if anyone out there knows of repo evergreen trees for the AF CP Flat.
I know that there were two types of trees that came with this car, one being
plastic other a synthetic branch type thing.
I have never seen repo trees in catalogs but a friend suggested try here, he
thinks he has seen them offered.
So, with that, if anyone has a direction to send me, Im all ears!!!
Thanks again,
Tom Westhelle
Oviedo, FL
Group: S-Trains Message: 16435 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] 336 Whistle
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16436 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: Re: Trip Troubles
--- ALLAN V EISENHAUR <aleisen@...> wrote:
> He is not using a 697 but has it wired like Sam and the Talking
station. It is setup using a isolation track section etc. Everything
operates fine with any of his Gilbert engines but his new SW9 will not
trip the gates?

I'm assuming he is using a 670 or similar electronic trip? Yes, the
SW-9 does not draw enough current to create enough of a voltage drop
across the coil in the trip to operate it. I assume he has adjusted the
screw on the trip to no avail? Some things you could try would be to
add powered cars (operating boxcar, searchlight, ...etc) to the train,
close enough to the engine to all be in the isolated section together.
Another is to alter the current draw of the SW-9 by putting in a high
wattage, low ohm resistor wired across the track pickup connections.
The heat buildup could very well damage the shell. You could also make
a car that you always pull behind the SW-9 that has power pickups and
draws enough current to operate the trip.

Another solution is to wire a variable resistor (potentiometer,
rheostat) between the rails in the isolated section of track and adjust
it so that it is just short of drawing enough current to operate the
trip. Then when the sw-9 goes through it adds just enough to operate
the trip. You'd turn the resistor all the way up (max resistance) when
running other engines and you would have to readjust each time you
changed the transformer speed setting while running the sw-9.

I've got a bunch of rheostats, 670 trips, and an SW-9. I'll try them
out and let you know. This could come in handy when using any of the
can motor equipped engines.



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Group: S-Trains Message: 16437 From: mythunder2000 Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: Helix design
Happy new year to everyone.
Newbie to your group, so I apologize in advance if this issue has
been answered in the past. Unfortunately, Yahoo groups pages are not
searchable by keyword.

Anyway, to the task at hand...
I have some so-called permanent layouts. Actually, I change things
around quite often. My kids are now getting into the challenge of
modeling, and we do play with my sets, rather than display them as
museum pieces.

I experience a problem like many modelers...so many grand designs,
and too few sq. ft. One solution is to incoporate a helix at one
corner to get some rail on an upper level.

Questions: does anyone have a helix design they can share?
Failing that, does anyone know the grade that should be used? I have
a variety of engines in mind. My "strongest" is the Alco built by
Lionel. Next, my 0-8-0 switcher (I don't know if could handle the
curve); followed by the #316 K-5. The other engines I have likely
wouldn't be up to the task (notably my #336 challenger...that I do
keep on the side yard, and not using it. Besdies, it doesn't
negotiate tight turns).

Any help is greatly appreciated!
Glenn
Group: S-Trains Message: 16438 From: Doug Peck Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: Re: Stud/steam drive wheel
Charlie....we have those replacement studs, if you need them. As Tom noted,
they are just pushed in, so they are not difficult to remove or replace.

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supplies
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please).
http://www.portlines.com/
portlines@...
VISA --MC--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted.
NEW ! View our entire AF Parts Catalog, as well as Equipment Sales
Inventories On-Line !!!!

-----Original Message-----
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 22:42:27 -0500
From: Charlie&Edith <Chancock@...>
Subject: Stud/steam drive wheel

Greetings, working on a 290 ... both of the studs (round top) have stripped
screw holes. The wheels are in good shape otherwise ... does anyone have a
couple of studs they would be willing to part with or a suggestion for
repair?
Thanks, Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 16439 From: Horn, David Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: Re: semaphore
Use an AF 709 lockout eliminator or 10 ohm ceramic resistor from Radio Shack
in conjunction with your semaphore to keep a trickle of power to that
section of track.

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Group: S-Trains Message: 16440 From: Paul Yorke Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: archive - Helix
I did a search on the archive and found...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/message/14399
Group: S-Trains Message: 16441 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: Re: Helix design
At the 2000 S-fest in Waukesha, Wisonconsin there was a layout by the
St. Louis S-gaugers (AFSGSLA) which was two helixes connected by
bridges at the top and bottom and was very simply constructed of
vertical threaded rods screwed through horizontal supports which the
Flyer track rested on. Maybe somebody on the list can supply more info?

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Group: S-Trains Message: 16442 From: The Reis's Date: 1/9/2002
Subject: SD-60 and Lionel Flyer accessories
Someone was asking so here is a quick report on some of the new S stuff:

I received and opened my SD60 today from ER/RA (Blatant plug for a decent
mail order dealer) The packaging, box and everything enclosing the engine
was exceptional. There are foam pieces supporting the handrails all around
and everything else. The overall look and finish is also exceptional.(BNSF
green and orange) I of course put it directly on the track and ran it
around a bit. After a few quick tests I hooked it to a string of 7 AM
weighted streamliner cars I have been pulling with 2 AM Amtrack engines. The
2 Amtrack engines slow down badly on the back hill of my layout and barely
make it up the grade. One engine will easily stall out. The SD-60 barely
slowed down and easily cruised up the back hill. Non-scientific but great
test for me. The clear led light is like the E-9’s and is very bright. All
in all a very nice looking and performing engine.



Scalers Hit DELETE Here..……………….


Lionel Gabe and Seaboard Coaler (Searboard?) I bought one of each for the
early prices (I think it was a March signup) at my local Lionel store where
they do have some AM and SHS stuff along with Flyer. One thing they have
learned is how to package this stuff. Everything is wrapped in foam wrap
and or set in blocks of foam. After extensive removal time I set both up on
the table and hooked up the power. Both worked out of the box flawlessly.

The Gabe takes about 40 punches of the button to get to the top of the
ladder and turn on the lights. This is not a separate function to turn on
the lights. Holding in the other button and he slides to the bottom. A
second run up and the lights go off. A note here…If you don’t let him go
all the way down you don’t have to all the way up the next time. 40 or so
steps seems like a bit much but….ok. All the parts look very close to
original flyer as well as I can tell. The switch mechanism at the top may
be different. All the painting is excellent. They even used a Gilbert
sticker on it with a very small Lionel,llc at the bottom. The problem I
found was that they prewired the whole thing. Nice, but how do I put it on
the layout and run the wire under. I either have to cut the wire or drill a
big hole under it big enough for the button to go through. They are probably
worried about cross wiring blowing out the circuitry.

The Seaboard (says Searboard on outer box) was equally impressive in
operation. It takes about 15 seconds in each direction and the clamshell
works great. One button to clamp the clamshell and raise, other button
lowers it back down. Third center button opens the shute in the back. This
thing really looks original with only the clamshell looking different. They
didn’t follow along on the button problem as they put terminals on the side
of the coaler. They should mark the terminals with a color to match the
wires as you have to find the sealed up paperwork for the wiring diagram. A
minor inconvenience all in all.

For someone that has not been at all happy with the Lionel quality (I got
rind of all my Lionel flyer stuff over the last 4 years) these may be a
turnaround at least for the Flyer part. Maybe an endurance test is needed
now to see how well they hold up.

I didn’t get the Sawmill or MTH coaling station as I have original ones of
these but if you want to send me one for free I will check them out side by
side and get back to you.

Eric Reis

Heading out across the mud that was my lawn to the train room.
No global warming here……57 degrees in January and my trees and plants are
sprouting.
Kenmore, Washington.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16443 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] SD-60 and Lionel Flyer accessories
Dear Eric,
The packaging should be no surprise, the same company that makes our stuff
and a year later started to make AM is now making all of the Lionel American
Flyer.
Don

The Reis's wrote:

> Someone was asking so here is a quick report on some of the new S stuff:
>
> I received and opened my SD60 today from ER/RA (Blatant plug for a decent
> mail order dealer) The packaging, box and everything enclosing the engine
> was exceptional. There are foam pieces supporting the handrails all around
> and everything else.
>
> Lionel Gabe and Seaboard Coaler (Searboard?) I bought one of each for the
> early prices (I think it was a March signup) at my local Lionel store where
> they do have some AM and SHS stuff along with Flyer. One thing they have
> learned is how to package this stuff. Everything is wrapped in foam wrap
> and or set in blocks of foam. After extensive removal time I set both up on
> the table and hooked up the power. Both worked out of the box flawlessly.
>
> For someone that has not been at all happy with the Lionel quality (I got
> rind of all my Lionel flyer stuff over the last 4 years) these may be a
> turnaround at least for the Flyer part. Maybe an endurance test is needed
> now to see how well they hold up.
>
> I didn’t get the Sawmill or MTH coaling station as I have original ones of
> these but if you want to send me one for free I will check them out side by
> side and get back to you.
>
> Eric Reis

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 16444 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: Re: Homemade choo choo cam Sale Ends Today... NOT AN ADVERTISEMENT!
Does anyone have any additional info on adapting this unit ?
Two questions come to mind immediately.
1. What circuitry is used to convert the variable AC track voltage to constant 12
VDC other than a bridge and capacitor?
2. Has anyone removed the outer packaging to reduce the overall size to fit inside a
car? What problems were encountered?
Any additional information would be appreciated.
Gene

Chuck Harrington wrote:

> Hello Folks,
>
> After on live S Chat last night, and the enjoyment from Carl's home made
> choo choo cam, I went to the x10 camera site and found that they have a
> pretty good sale going on that ends tonight at midnight.
>
> This is the link to Carl's web site that shows the installation of the
> camera on a flatcar
> http://list.wsbt.com/af/traincam/train_cam.htm
>
> This is the link to see and purchase the camera. It is $15 off. Sale
> ends midnight New Years Eve, it says...
> http://www.x10.com/products/x10_vk45a_av.htm
>
> I have mine on order, my wife is making it a present for our upcoming
> anniversary...
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16445 From: David Dewey Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] SD-60 and Lionel Flyer accessories
Don,
hmm, are they also making the MTH stuff too? Interesting. . . .
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16446 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains
group.

File : /helix.jpg
Uploaded by : imsscott <imsscott@...>
Description : Double Helix

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/helix.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

imsscott <imsscott@...>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16447 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: Fwd: HELIX
This picture of a three level double helix sent by Bruce Crosby was put
in the s-trains file section. This one looks like it uses a similar
system as the St. Louis club's ten level helix.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/helix.jpg

--- Bruce Crosby <abcrosby@...> wrote:
> From: "Bruce Crosby" <abcrosby@...>
> To: "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...>
> Subject: HELIX
> Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 20:48:02 -0600
>
> Scott:
>
> Only got in on part of conversation.............here's a picture of a
> double helix with flyer track that was used as a display in Marshal
> Fields window display in Chicago. It was manufactured NOT by AF but
> by someone else. We saw this on display at one guys house at the
> Beloit "S" Fest in November of 2001.
>
> Hope you enjoy this..........see that it gets to the right people
> your conversing with..............
>
> Bruce Crosby
> Hutchinson, MN (65 mi West of Twin Cities)
> abcrosby@...
> NMRA# 114573
>


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Group: S-Trains Message: 16448 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: Re: Fwd: HELIX
Anyone know what the diameter of the helix is on the set-up in the picture?

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


Scott Holm wrote:

> This picture of a three level double helix sent by Bruce Crosby was put
> in the s-trains file section. This one looks like it uses a similar
> system as the St. Louis club's ten level helix.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/helix.jpg
>
> --- Bruce Crosby <abcrosby@...> wrote:
> > From: "Bruce Crosby" <abcrosby@...>
> > To: "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...>
> > Subject: HELIX
> > Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 20:48:02 -0600
> >
> > Scott:
> >
> > Only got in on part of conversation.............here's a picture of a
> > double helix with flyer track that was used as a display in Marshal
> > Fields window display in Chicago. It was manufactured NOT by AF but
> > by someone else. We saw this on display at one guys house at the
> > Beloit "S" Fest in November of 2001.
> >
> > Hope you enjoy this..........see that it gets to the right people
> > your conversing with..............
> >
> > Bruce Crosby
> > Hutchinson, MN (65 mi West of Twin Cities)
> > abcrosby@...
> > NMRA# 114573
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
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>
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> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
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>
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16449 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: Helix
Does anyone know what is under the track? Says it was made with AF
track?? Is it nothing, thin board, etc. Also, I would think the
crosspieces could be made thinner (something like a piece of metal and
just use washers and hexnut on the "screw poles" so that the grade could
be lessened. Would appreciate any additional info on the materials
used.
Tx
Rance Velapoldi
Group: S-Trains Message: 16450 From: Paul Yorke Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: Atlantic Loco Cam
Thanks to Bruce Crosby, I have some Atlantic loco cam pictures to add to
the site.

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/loco_cam/atlantic/atlantic_cam.html

I am not sure about the best way to power the camera using the AC
power. Any of you electronic guys have the answer. I was thinking of
using two Sony batteries, got plenty of them.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16451 From: Lance McCold Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: stud/steam drive wheel
Can Tom or someone explain a little more about how the studs are put in and
taken out. Do you need to epoxy them in place? Can you press them into a
plastic wheel that has a broken plastic stud?

Thanks,

Lance

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 02:16:55 -0500
From: jarcho@...
Subject: stud/steam drive wheel
Those studs are press fits and can be pried and/or yanked out and replaced.
Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 16452 From: Dan Brindell Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: Re: Fwd: HELIX
The helix pictures are neat and it is a terrific feat of model railroad
engineering....but, man, is it ever high above the platform and floor. If
you ever had a derailment.....ouch!
Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...>
To: "s-trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:58 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Fwd: HELIX


> This picture of a three level double helix sent by Bruce Crosby was put
> in the s-trains file section. This one looks like it uses a similar
> system as the St. Louis club's ten level helix.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/helix.jpg
>
> --- Bruce Crosby <abcrosby@...> wrote:
> > From: "Bruce Crosby" <abcrosby@...>
> > To: "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...>
> > Subject: HELIX
> > Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 20:48:02 -0600
> >
> > Scott:
> >
> > Only got in on part of conversation.............here's a picture of a
> > double helix with flyer track that was used as a display in Marshal
> > Fields window display in Chicago. It was manufactured NOT by AF but
> > by someone else. We saw this on display at one guys house at the
> > Beloit "S" Fest in November of 2001.
> >
> > Hope you enjoy this..........see that it gets to the right people
> > your conversing with..............
> >
> > Bruce Crosby
> > Hutchinson, MN (65 mi West of Twin Cities)
> > abcrosby@...
> > NMRA# 114573
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
> http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16453 From: John Harvey Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: Repair of SIT Hudson
I have two Smoke in Tender Hudsons which are badly in need of restoration. Many years ago their previous owner epoxied some of the driving wheels on. Clear epoxy was not only put on the axles but was also thinly spread over the center of the wheels. How do I remove the epoxy without damaging the wheels?

Also very thin fiber board was inserted between the driving wheels and the chassis. I assume this was to prevent the wheels from shorting against the chassis. Has anyone encountered this before?

Kind Regards,

John Harvey
brigadie@...


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Group: S-Trains Message: 16454 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1275
Chris Zizzo
----- Original Message -----
From: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:07 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1275


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 10 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: [S-Scale] SD-60 and Lionel Flyer accessories
From: Don Thompson <robin@...>
2. Re: Homemade choo choo cam Sale Ends Today... NOT AN ADVERTISEMENT!
From: Eugene Steffan <stefengineer@...>
3. Re: Re: [S-Scale] SD-60 and Lionel Flyer accessories
From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
4. New file uploaded to S-Trains
From: S-Trains
5. Fwd: HELIX
From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...>
6. Re: Fwd: HELIX
From: "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@...>
7. Helix
From: "Bente Velapoldi" <velapoldi@...>
8. Atlantic Loco Cam
From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...>
9. stud/steam drive wheel
From: Lance McCold <lancemccold@...>
10. Re: Fwd: HELIX
From: "Dan Brindell" <dbrindell@...>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 06:30:54 -0500
From: Don Thompson <robin@...>
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] SD-60 and Lionel Flyer accessories

Dear Eric,
The packaging should be no surprise, the same company that makes our
stuff
and a year later started to make AM is now making all of the Lionel American
Flyer.
Don

The Reis's wrote:

> Someone was asking so here is a quick report on some of the new S stuff:
>
> I received and opened my SD60 today from ER/RA (Blatant plug for a decent
> mail order dealer) The packaging, box and everything enclosing the engine
> was exceptional. There are foam pieces supporting the handrails all around
> and everything else.
>
> Lionel Gabe and Seaboard Coaler (Searboard?) I bought one of each for the
> early prices (I think it was a March signup) at my local Lionel store
where
> they do have some AM and SHS stuff along with Flyer. One thing they have
> learned is how to package this stuff. Everything is wrapped in foam wrap
> and or set in blocks of foam. After extensive removal time I set both up
on
> the table and hooked up the power. Both worked out of the box flawlessly.
>
> For someone that has not been at all happy with the Lionel quality (I got
> rind of all my Lionel flyer stuff over the last 4 years) these may be a
> turnaround at least for the Flyer part. Maybe an endurance test is needed
> now to see how well they hold up.
>
> I didn't get the Sawmill or MTH coaling station as I have original ones of
> these but if you want to send me one for free I will check them out side
by
> side and get back to you.
>
> Eric Reis

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:20:44 -0500
From: Eugene Steffan <stefengineer@...>
Subject: Re: Homemade choo choo cam Sale Ends Today... NOT AN ADVERTISEMENT!

Does anyone have any additional info on adapting this unit ?
Two questions come to mind immediately.
1. What circuitry is used to convert the variable AC track voltage to
constant 12
VDC other than a bridge and capacitor?
2. Has anyone removed the outer packaging to reduce the overall size to fit
inside a
car? What problems were encountered?
Any additional information would be appreciated.
Gene

Chuck Harrington wrote:

> Hello Folks,
>
> After on live S Chat last night, and the enjoyment from Carl's home made
> choo choo cam, I went to the x10 camera site and found that they have a
> pretty good sale going on that ends tonight at midnight.
>
> This is the link to Carl's web site that shows the installation of the
> camera on a flatcar
> http://list.wsbt.com/af/traincam/train_cam.htm
>
> This is the link to see and purchase the camera. It is $15 off. Sale
> ends midnight New Years Eve, it says...
> http://www.x10.com/products/x10_vk45a_av.htm
>
> I have mine on order, my wife is making it a present for our upcoming
> anniversary...
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 08:16:30 -0800
From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
Subject: Re: Re: [S-Scale] SD-60 and Lionel Flyer accessories

Don,
hmm, are they also making the MTH stuff too? Interesting. . . .
S'
David D.



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
Date: 10 Jan 2002 16:46:23 -0000
From: S-Trains
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains


Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains
group.

File : /helix.jpg
Uploaded by : imsscott <imsscott@...>
Description : Double Helix

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/helix.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

imsscott <imsscott@...>







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 08:58:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...>
Subject: Fwd: HELIX

This picture of a three level double helix sent by Bruce Crosby was put
in the s-trains file section. This one looks like it uses a similar
system as the St. Louis club's ten level helix.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/helix.jpg

--- Bruce Crosby <abcrosby@...> wrote:
> From: "Bruce Crosby" <abcrosby@...>
> To: "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...>
> Subject: HELIX
> Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 20:48:02 -0600
>
> Scott:
>
> Only got in on part of conversation.............here's a picture of a
> double helix with flyer track that was used as a display in Marshal
> Fields window display in Chicago. It was manufactured NOT by AF but
> by someone else. We saw this on display at one guys house at the
> Beloit "S" Fest in November of 2001.
>
> Hope you enjoy this..........see that it gets to the right people
> your conversing with..............
>
> Bruce Crosby
> Hutchinson, MN (65 mi West of Twin Cities)
> abcrosby@...
> NMRA# 114573
>


__________________________________________________
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Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:54:09 -0700
From: "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@...>
Subject: Re: Fwd: HELIX

Anyone know what the diameter of the helix is on the set-up in the picture?

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


Scott Holm wrote:

> This picture of a three level double helix sent by Bruce Crosby was put
> in the s-trains file section. This one looks like it uses a similar
> system as the St. Louis club's ten level helix.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/helix.jpg
>
> --- Bruce Crosby <abcrosby@...> wrote:
> > From: "Bruce Crosby" <abcrosby@...>
> > To: "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...>
> > Subject: HELIX
> > Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 20:48:02 -0600
> >
> > Scott:
> >
> > Only got in on part of conversation.............here's a picture of a
> > double helix with flyer track that was used as a display in Marshal
> > Fields window display in Chicago. It was manufactured NOT by AF but
> > by someone else. We saw this on display at one guys house at the
> > Beloit "S" Fest in November of 2001.
> >
> > Hope you enjoy this..........see that it gets to the right people
> > your conversing with..............
> >
> > Bruce Crosby
> > Hutchinson, MN (65 mi West of Twin Cities)
> > abcrosby@...
> > NMRA# 114573
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
> http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 23:15:57 +0100
From: "Bente Velapoldi" <velapoldi@...>
Subject: Helix

Does anyone know what is under the track? Says it was made with AF
track?? Is it nothing, thin board, etc. Also, I would think the
crosspieces could be made thinner (something like a piece of metal and
just use washers and hexnut on the "screw poles" so that the grade could
be lessened. Would appreciate any additional info on the materials
used.
Tx
Rance Velapoldi



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 19:23:00 -0500
From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...>
Subject: Atlantic Loco Cam

Thanks to Bruce Crosby, I have some Atlantic loco cam pictures to add to
the site.

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/loco_cam/atlantic/atlantic_cam.html

I am not sure about the best way to power the camera using the AC
power. Any of you electronic guys have the answer. I was thinking of
using two Sony batteries, got plenty of them.



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 20:13:39 -0500
From: Lance McCold <lancemccold@...>
Subject: stud/steam drive wheel

Can Tom or someone explain a little more about how the studs are put in and
taken out. Do you need to epoxy them in place? Can you press them into a
plastic wheel that has a broken plastic stud?

Thanks,

Lance

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 02:16:55 -0500
From: jarcho@...
Subject: stud/steam drive wheel
Those studs are press fits and can be pried and/or yanked out and replaced.
Tom Jarcho



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:37:26 -0500
From: "Dan Brindell" <dbrindell@...>
Subject: Re: Fwd: HELIX

The helix pictures are neat and it is a terrific feat of model railroad
engineering....but, man, is it ever high above the platform and floor. If
you ever had a derailment.....ouch!
Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...>
To: "s-trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:58 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Fwd: HELIX


> This picture of a three level double helix sent by Bruce Crosby was put
> in the s-trains file section. This one looks like it uses a similar
> system as the St. Louis club's ten level helix.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/helix.jpg
>
> --- Bruce Crosby <abcrosby@...> wrote:
> > From: "Bruce Crosby" <abcrosby@...>
> > To: "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...>
> > Subject: HELIX
> > Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 20:48:02 -0600
> >
> > Scott:
> >
> > Only got in on part of conversation.............here's a picture of a
> > double helix with flyer track that was used as a display in Marshal
> > Fields window display in Chicago. It was manufactured NOT by AF but
> > by someone else. We saw this on display at one guys house at the
> > Beloit "S" Fest in November of 2001.
> >
> > Hope you enjoy this..........see that it gets to the right people
> > your conversing with..............
> >
> > Bruce Crosby
> > Hutchinson, MN (65 mi West of Twin Cities)
> > abcrosby@...
> > NMRA# 114573
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
> http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16455 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/10/2002
Subject: Apologies
My apologies to all on the list. Somehow I managed to hit send and give you
all a copy of today's digest. I was having a problem with my spacebar and
was checking it out and Oops.

Sorry.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16456 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: Helix
Is there any limit to the height of these helixes (heli?) as far as AF locos
just running out of juice or getting beat to death climbing? I wanted to
use a helix to make a wall shelf display an active storage yard so that
trains on the wall can be called down to the layout and be replaced by other
trains "in transit" to far cities. It beats a hidden storage yard. It only
requires a switch track installed at each level.

I just know that a fully loaded down Gilbert Flyer PA pulling 2 dummies and
five lit passenger cars around an endless uphill curve is pretty likely to
hit a stall point and spin it's wheels. What is some of the anecdotal
experience with these things?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16457 From: THOMAS E HILLERY Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1275
Re: The homemade cameracar
Looks interesting; I would like to try it on a #946 floodlight car-
the round assembly could be sidemounted like a reel and the lens mounted
on the floodlight swivel. What are the dim. of the parts--Tom Hillery
Group: S-Trains Message: 16458 From: Alan C Udy Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Christmas Trees in S
The question was asked,

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 13:45:13 EST
From: TWesthelle@...
Subject: Canadian Pacific Flat Trees/Repo/ for AF 24558

Wonder if anyone out there knows of repo evergreen trees for the AF CP
Flat.
I know that there were two types of trees that came with this car, one
being
plastic other a synthetic branch type thing.
I have never seen repo trees in catalogs but a friend suggested try here,
he
thinks he has seen them offered.
So, with that, if anyone has a direction to send me, Im all ears!!!
Thanks again,
Tom Westhelle
Oviedo, FL

Try a cake decorating shop. Sometimes they are found listed under
weddings, parties, etc.

The shop here carries plastic and wire armature trees that would be
suitable.

Alan Udy
Idaho Falls, ID

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16459 From: Ted Larson Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: sprues and runners
I found some webpages that will help illustrate the difference between
a sprue and a runner.

http://www.keungsing.com.hk/
shows a phantom view of an injection mold. The bright green ring at
the top of the mold is where the plastic is injected into the mold.
The two RED objects are molded plastic parts.

There is a vertical channel that brings the melted plastic from the
opening down to the level of the parts. This is the sprue.
This can be seen at Figure 1;
http://www.meltflipper.com/fivestep/background.html
it is the tapered red component in the center of the drawing.

In Figure 1, there are a number of objects labeled "flow 1" or "flow
2". These represent the molded plastic parts. The round channel
connecting the vertical sprue to the molded parts is the runner.
Usually the sprue is removed at the molding plant, so that the modeler
only sees the parts attached to the runner. In a few cases, the sprue
runs directly to the molded plastic parts, but it will still look like
the sprue in Figure 1, it will not look like a runner.

Hope this helps.




=====
Ted Larson

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Group: S-Trains Message: 16460 From: Horn, David Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: ACG Diesel to can motor conversion
I'm throwing in the towel on my all-chrome AF 360 PA and converting it to
dual cans. Do you have a dual-can LTI PA, or a complete LTI PA chassis,
that you would like to sell? Otherwise, I'm going to buy all the necessary
components and convert this one over piece meal. Thanks.

PS The 360 looks great pulling polished aluminum passenger cars, and I want
to keep using it that way, but doing so has prevailed hard work enough that
it eats up axle bushings too fast for comfort. I've tried rebushing the
original chassis, and LTI chassis. In every case the engine has initially
had enough power and speed, but after a few club outings of pulling those
66X cars, signs of axle bushing play starts to creep in. And once it does,
less than optimal mesh between the worms and drive gears develops, and with
that comes more heat, and with that more bushing wear, on and on. On the
other hand, my LTI NP 48114 PA can pull three dummy units and seven cars for
an hour without the chassis even getting warm. In those engines, the axle
bushings are spared the heat, and therefore much wear, since the cans are
more removed than with the open frame ACG motors and the nylon gears help to
further insulate the drive train from motor heat. And yes, both the 360 and
48114 have been clean and properly lubricated.
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16461 From: mythunder2000 Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: Helix
Thanks to everyone that has responded to my query on helicies.
As I suspected, there's more to it than simply building a spiral
staircase.

The photo of the double helix revealed a novel design, but the
particulars were absent. Namely, as others have pointed out (either
in the achive file of Mr. Avedesian) or the recent postings by
resident experts Paul Yorke et. al,) there are critical factors of
radius, grade, and building materials.

My major concern is the grade. I have a variety of good pullers, and
how far, how quickly they can run, can either be determined by trial
and error, or if anyone has some experience, then actual measurements
are welcome. You can expect that a tighter radius will be able to
reach heights faster; while a tight near bottom, wide at top design
might help the overall performance of the enigine.

Some measurements depend on what your planning to run through the
helix. An observation car or crane caboose is relatively tall. I
think that a 6"clearance between overlaping loops should be
sufficient.


Another thought, was the design architecture. I've been sketching
and doodling and playing with some materials. I'm leaning toward
the "artifical Christmas tree": a center pole with braces radiating
from it. The short braces would support some kind of "flooring" to
which I would mount the rails. I'm concerned that a wood flooring
would be too heavy; I'm looking into acryllic or other plastic, and
then covering with a homosote to absorb sound.

Anyway,
Thanks all! Keep the suggestions flowing.
Glenn õ¿õ
Group: S-Trains Message: 16462 From: david.avedesian@clarkconstruction.com Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Helix design
I would be more than happy to help anyone who is considering a helix for
their layout. When I did my search, the information on helixs was "thin".
I am an engineer so I approached the lack of information as an engineering
problem. I spent time developing an easy to use look up table for
determining grade/radius and clearance. I will look to see if I have it in
an E-format. I know that I have a paper format copy in my "train book".

If my notes that are on Yahoo files is not enough info, please feel free to
e-mail of call me for more information.

I have been very pleased with my design, its operation and the thrill that
it gets from visitors.

David Avedesian
Baltimore Area American Flyer Club
Rockville, MD
301 272 8384 w
301 929 9000 h
EST
Group: S-Trains Message: 16463 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: S gauge tinplate track in new radii
Hey Chris:
Its been several months. You never told us if you know any more!!!
Thorin

Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 14:23:56 -0500
From: Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...>
Subject: S gauge tinplate track in new radii

Did the rest of you guys get this e-mail?
I put in a call to find out more and Marshall Douglas, who sent it, is to
get back to me.
The concept is certainly intriguing, though S-Helper super flex obviates the
necessity for this on permanent layouts. Under the tree and other seasonal
set-ups might benefit. I'll post again when I know more.

Flyer operators:
S gauge tinplate track
in new radii
options like the scale guys enjoy!
22.0" radius
25.1" radius
28.2" radius
31.3" radius
34.4" radius
37.5" radius
46.7" radius
49.8" radius
59.0" radius
62.1" radius
reusing the original rails, pins, ties & insulators
ultra-cleaned and rebent to new curvatures
call Track Fun toll-free for details
866 233 3840 at prompt 5840
phone inquiry preferable to email

Chris Zizzo



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16464 From: royhoffman Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Opportunity for an S club layout
A large model railroad club, "The Cumberland Valley MR Club" of
Chambersburg, PA contacted me recently. I live in the area and when
they heard about my connection to the NASG, they made an offer of
space in their new layout room in a converted warehouse. They have
operating layouts in HO and N and some small O layouts. They are
willing to give me a space of 4' by 80' along one wall for an S gauge
layout. It's obviously too much for one person, so I'm wondering if
there is anybody in the South Central PA, Western MD, or WVA
panhandle region who might be interested in helping out. The club has
a month-long open house in December that draws 350 or more each
Sunday. This area is a hotbed for model railroading and has some of
the biggest hobby shops on the East coast nearby (one of the reasons
I like living there). However, there's an S club in North Central PA
and Lehigh Valley, PA and Altoona, etc. but nothing near the
Cumberland Valley or Susquehanna West Shore areas. Please let me know
if you want to help out or even form a club.

Roy
Group: S-Trains Message: 16465 From: crustyfour Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Dick Kuepper's articulated project
Does anyone know how Dick Kuepper's articulated project shown in the
file section turned out? Is Dick on the list? I've thought about
that something like that for a while. I'd like to see more photos if
it was finished.
Steve
Group: S-Trains Message: 16466 From: Horn, David Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: ACG Diesel to can motor conversion
Maybe, except I swapped out the original side frames for ones that
accommodate pick-up shoes, and added a pick up shoe with a tiger-tail (i.e.
flexi-wire soldered to the shoe box then to the top of the yoke just like
LTI does) to both trucks since day 1. Great continuity and smooth operation
when you do this.

-----Original Message-----
From: David Dewey [mailto:djdewey@...]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 3:49 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com; Horn, David
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] ACG Diesel to can motor conversion


David,
What you are experiencing is not wear, but electrical arcing causing
oversized holes. The 360 has no slider shoes so all the electrical pickup
comes through the axle bearings. Changing to can motors MAY reduce the
electrical load, and therefore the arcing.
You could add phosphor bronze wipers to the chassis to pick up the power
from the back side of the wheels, or even the wheel tread. I've been wanting
to try this trick for some time now, but haven't gotten around to it yet.
Lots of convenient screws on the chassis for mounting them, could even
solder them to the bearing strap (off the engine, of course!) if you don't
want to put anything under the screws.
There has been much debate about the cause of this bearing wear, but I
have seen far too many single wheel pullmore chassis (with the pullmor on
the "live" side of the chassis) that show nearly no wear on the pullmor axle
bearings, but needing rebushing on the "live" axle. Have one in the shop
right now!
S'
David D.
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16467 From: Dick Kuepper Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: Dick Kuepper's articulated project
Hi Steve -

Unfortunately, too many other things took priority. I have the two frames,
and have smoothed out the joint between the two cut bodies. Next I need to
epoxy? them together and trim the frames to fit. I think I'm going to try
can motor(s). I'll post new pictures when I make some progress.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "crustyfour" <splitdorf@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 2:56 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Dick Kuepper's articulated project


> Does anyone know how Dick Kuepper's articulated project shown in the
> file section turned out? Is Dick on the list? I've thought about
> that something like that for a while. I'd like to see more photos if
> it was finished.
> Steve
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16468 From: David Dewey Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: ACG Diesel to can motor conversion
David,
What you are experiencing is not wear, but electrical arcing causing
oversized holes. The 360 has no slider shoes so all the electrical pickup
comes through the axle bearings. Changing to can motors MAY reduce the
electrical load, and therefore the arcing.
You could add phosphor bronze wipers to the chassis to pick up the power
from the back side of the wheels, or even the wheel tread. I've been wanting
to try this trick for some time now, but haven't gotten around to it yet.
Lots of convenient screws on the chassis for mounting them, could even
solder them to the bearing strap (off the engine, of course!) if you don't
want to put anything under the screws.
There has been much debate about the cause of this bearing wear, but I
have seen far too many single wheel pullmore chassis (with the pullmor on
the "live" side of the chassis) that show nearly no wear on the pullmor axle
bearings, but needing rebushing on the "live" axle. Have one in the shop
right now!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16469 From: jtrain485 Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: lionel gabe
Just a couple of words on the Lionel gabe.... I looked it over, put
it next to the MTH gabe. The first thing I notice was that gabe on
the lionel unit was bigger(o gauge size??). MTH gabe looks flyer
scale. The connection between the tower and controller (lionel) was a
solid wire, no connector like the mth unit. (I think the original
gabe did have a solid wire from tower to controller, but like other
flyer accessories, I think you are able to disconnect it) will have a
hard time feeding the wires under the table. Operation, MTH Gabe
works like the original, Lionel does not. I feel like I have to
operate the up botton alot more on the lionel unit.(probably do to
the larger size of gabe, he keeps sliding down) I have herd in the
last couple of weeks problems with the lionel gabe string breaking.
No problems on MTH unit. Time to go, keep up the good work lionel.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16470 From: TCS Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Try, try again
Subject: Try, try again


> Folks,
>
> I'm going to try to get my foot into the door again with Walthers, so
if
> you all would, please give them a reason to why they should carry
> Oddballs Decals. Please send all emails to me and not the list. This
> time they are going to get a full color catalog from me, plus some
> samples.
>
> When emailing me please change the subject to something else, instead
of
> replying to this email. I'll give you all a week or so to email me
back,
> as I still have to print the catalog.
>
> Thanks in advance.
> ---
> ---
> Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals
> N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals
> 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054
> Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@...
> Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/
> Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/
> NMRA Member #121756
> Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16471 From: Doug Peck Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Flyonel
Here's the word on the 2002 Lionel AF catalog----

First----NO steam engine, contrary to all those rumors that I didn't believe
anyway!

(1) NYC PA A-A passenger set, with 4 cars. (Possible extra car as
well....need to verify that).
(2) Rock Island GP9
(3) Rock Island bay-window caboose
(4) Checkerboard Tower (When it rains, it pours!)
(5) SFe flatcar with jet canister loads
(6) Gilbert Chemical tankcar, in white.
(7) Reading gondola with pipeload
(8) 3-Bay hopper (forgot the roadname)
(9) C&O boxcar
(10) NP boxcar

We'll be accepting advance orders immediately....minimum 10% discount.

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supplies
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please).
http://www.portlines.com/
portlines@...
VISA --MC--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted.
NEW ! View our entire AF Parts Catalog, as well as Equipment Sales
Inventories On-Line !!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16472 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Flyonel
That's a lot, Doug. I am truly amazed. They're making another run at it.
Steam will take another year . . . too much R&D. Sales on this stuff will
determine it's fate. Mike's spies win again. That's why there are 2
checker towers. MTH always gets it out first.
GP-9's and PA's. How novel.

Chris Zizzo

> Here's the word on the 2002 Lionel AF catalog----
>
> First----NO steam engine, contrary to all those rumors that I didn't
believe
> anyway!
>
> (1) NYC PA A-A passenger set, with 4 cars. (Possible extra car as
> well....need to verify that).
> (2) Rock Island GP9
> (3) Rock Island bay-window caboose
> (4) Checkerboard Tower (When it rains, it pours!)
> (5) SFe flatcar with jet canister loads
> (6) Gilbert Chemical tankcar, in white.
> (7) Reading gondola with pipeload
> (8) 3-Bay hopper (forgot the roadname)
> (9) C&O boxcar
> (10) NP boxcar




Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16473 From: ron inscho Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Flyonel
Here again we see how much Lionel is interested in S . AM models & S helper
need not worry about any compition from them as long as the offerings are
just more warmed over & repainted Gilbert items.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
To: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 10:33 PM
Subject: RE: [S-Trains] 2002 Flyonel


> That's a lot, Doug. I am truly amazed. They're making another run at it.
> Steam will take another year . . . too much R&D. Sales on this stuff will
> determine it's fate. Mike's spies win again. That's why there are 2
> checker towers. MTH always gets it out first.
> GP-9's and PA's. How novel.
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
> > Here's the word on the 2002 Lionel AF catalog----
> >
> > First----NO steam engine, contrary to all those rumors that I didn't
> believe
> > anyway!
> >
> > (1) NYC PA A-A passenger set, with 4 cars. (Possible extra car as
> > well....need to verify that).
> > (2) Rock Island GP9
> > (3) Rock Island bay-window caboose
> > (4) Checkerboard Tower (When it rains, it pours!)
> > (5) SFe flatcar with jet canister loads
> > (6) Gilbert Chemical tankcar, in white.
> > (7) Reading gondola with pipeload
> > (8) 3-Bay hopper (forgot the roadname)
> > (9) C&O boxcar
> > (10) NP boxcar
>
>
>
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16474 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: 2002 Flyonel -AAhhh! They're after me again!
AAhhh they're after me again. I already HAVE a NYC PA A-B-A. Painted with
Polly-scale NYC dark grey. The Microscale S gauge decals have the lighter
gray stripe in them. Simple project. But I'm tired of being ahead of my
time. Oh well, wonder what the passenger cars will look like. A grey
center stripe this time???

It all started when I converted a Lionel 0-27 Alco FPA diesel to S. As
soon as I got that finished good, American Models came out with their FA.
I put brass wire handrails and tiger striped pilots on my remotored
Baldwin, and SHS came out with their SW-9. I made a piggyback train from
cut down Lionel flatcar bodies, and SHS came out with their TOFC cars. I
made some F units from Wabash valley shells and Flyer Baldwin mechanisms,
and SHS came out with the F-3.

Now I have the dubious honor of being copied by Chinese Lionel American
Flyer (there's a mouthful!) its own self. What's next? PRR Alco PA's?
Maybe they would put the same lovely gold striping on them that Papa Cowen
applied to the GG-1"s?

By the way, Lionel ought to change their catalog format to honor their new
oriental circumstances. No more train sets per se. Just "Pick two from
column A and one from column B", etc.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 16475 From: ron inscho Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Here's a news flash Re: [S-Trains] 2002 Flyonel -AAhhh!
American Models and S helper win again
----- Original Message -----
From: <jarcho@...>
To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 11:25 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] 2002 Flyonel -AAhhh! They're after me again!


> AAhhh they're after me again. I already HAVE a NYC PA A-B-A. Painted
with
> Polly-scale NYC dark grey. The Microscale S gauge decals have the lighter
> gray stripe in them. Simple project. But I'm tired of being ahead of my
> time. Oh well, wonder what the passenger cars will look like. A grey
> center stripe this time???
>
> It all started when I converted a Lionel 0-27 Alco FPA diesel to S. As
> soon as I got that finished good, American Models came out with their FA.
> I put brass wire handrails and tiger striped pilots on my remotored
> Baldwin, and SHS came out with their SW-9. I made a piggyback train from
> cut down Lionel flatcar bodies, and SHS came out with their TOFC cars. I
> made some F units from Wabash valley shells and Flyer Baldwin mechanisms,
> and SHS came out with the F-3.
>
> Now I have the dubious honor of being copied by Chinese Lionel American
> Flyer (there's a mouthful!) its own self. What's next? PRR Alco PA's?
> Maybe they would put the same lovely gold striping on them that Papa Cowen
> applied to the GG-1"s?
>
> By the way, Lionel ought to change their catalog format to honor their new
> oriental circumstances. No more train sets per se. Just "Pick two from
> column A and one from column B", etc.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16476 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: 290 smoke unit
Thanks to all for your suggestions regarding the "stripped stud" on the
steam drive wheel, hoping to be back on track soon! Today's question is on
the smoke unit...the top of the unit is covered with a fiberboard material
held in place with masking tape. Was this for insulating purposes and an
original application? Should it be removed and another adjustment made? I
will have to remove it to replace the wick and heat element so need to know
how it should "go back". Thanks in advance, Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 16477 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Flyonel
I am still waiting for my Railsounds B unit and a combine car for my '97
SF set, when the folks in charge at China Flyer start supporting their
prior customers then I may consider supporting them again. Until then
I'll pass. Even tho the NYC was good looking, unless it was offered
complete right from the start I wouldn't consider it. The SF set sure
looks good but without a baggage car it seems about as phony as a third
rail. Oh! I'm being bitter.
Oh Boy! Trains................Herky 1950

Obie Bell
Group: S-Trains Message: 16478 From: David Dewey Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: 290 smoke unit
Charlie,
I've seen some with this and many without. I would guess that it's an
"insurance policy" for diecast boilered engines. Easy enough to replace when
you're done fixing it. A few hints: 1)Get a magnifier to work with! 2)
unsolder the wires first, then wick off excess solder on the lugs. Now,
using the magnifiers, you should be able to see the nichrome wire that is
wrapped around the lugs. Use a pointed tool to loosen it up and unwrap it.
3) remove the screws that hold the cover on, and you should be able to lift
it off, with the nichrome wires staying with the unit body.
By taking the top off this way, you don't disturb the innards, which allows
you to inspect and figure out what is really wrong inside (burnt wick,
broken nichrome wire, heating area too high or too low in its chamber,
etc.).
Reassembly is just the reverse; after positioning the old or new wick
heating area correctly, feed each nichrome wire through the lug holes, screw
the top on, then wrap the wire ends around the lugs and tuck them in so you
can feed the power wires through the lug holes. Solder will never stick to
the nichrome wire, so don't fret, you just imbed it in the solder and that
makes a good enough connection. Don't forget to fill the entry hole, but not
too much or it falls inside and clogs things.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16479 From: jahoozdumm Date: 1/11/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Flyonel
I would like to take this opportunity to thank Lionel publicly for
NOT tempting me to blow any money on Lionel/AF.

Like most of you, I have only so much $ in the train budget. I need
all of it to acquire an American Models SD60 asap. Lionel's 2002 line-
up in no way threatens modernization on the C+D System.

Thank you, Lionel.

Regarding the "long" list of promised items from Lionel, well, just
remember the SD40.

Chuck F. (who continues to breath normally between yawns.)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16480 From: Paul Yorke Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Helix - Deluxe Online Grade Calculator
I am happy (and proud) to announce the latest S-Trains
web page, the Deluxe Online Helix Grade Calculator.
Please check it out.

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/helix/percent_grade.htm

If you have played with these numbers please check my
figures.

And always remember to 'have fun'.

=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16481 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: Helix - Deluxe Online Grade Calculator
I got the same answer in my calculation using these variables

Structural Support 0.25
Road Bed 0.25
Rail & Tie 0.25
Train Clearance  3
Track Radius 19
pitch 3.75
equivalent linear run per pitch 119.38042
effective grade 3.14%


MK

--- In S-Trains@y..., Paul Yorke <s_trains@y...> wrote:
> I am happy (and proud) to announce the latest S-Trains
> web page, the Deluxe Online Helix Grade Calculator.
> Please check it out.
>
> http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/helix/percent_grade.htm
>
> If you have played with these numbers please check my
> figures.
>
> And always remember to 'have fun'.
>
> =====
> Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
> Photography - Computers - Trains
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
> http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16482 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Flyonel- Rock Island
OK, which Rock Island paint scheme? I only spent a month repainting a
L-Flyer GP-9 Blue and White last spring:)



At 09:29 PM 1/11/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Here's the word on the 2002 Lionel AF catalog----
>
>First----NO steam engine, contrary to all those rumors that I didn't believe
>anyway!
>
>(1) NYC PA A-A passenger set, with 4 cars. (Possible extra car as
>well....need to verify that).
>(2) Rock Island GP9
>(3) Rock Island bay-window caboose
>(4) Checkerboard Tower (When it rains, it pours!)
>(5) SFe flatcar with jet canister loads
>(6) Gilbert Chemical tankcar, in white.
>(7) Reading gondola with pipeload
>(8) 3-Bay hopper (forgot the roadname)
>(9) C&O boxcar
>(10) NP boxcar
>
>We'll be accepting advance orders immediately....minimum 10% discount.
>
>Doug Peck
>Port Lines Hobby Supplies
>6 Storeybrooke Drive
>Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
>Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST
>978-465-8798
>1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please).
>http://www.portlines.com/
>portlines@...
>VISA --MC--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted.
>NEW ! View our entire AF Parts Catalog, as well as Equipment Sales
>Inventories On-Line !!!!
>
>
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16483 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Flyonel
Tell me that this PA AA set will come with
Railsounds...should not be too hard to accomplish even
for Lionel. What about those passenger cars...will
they be silver lettered for NYC or the gray "century"
style. Tell me that even though they will using the
existing body types these passenger cars will come
with interiors rather than silhouettes...tell me a
four car set would be an obs, coach,diner, and
combine...and no un-prototypical dome car which NYC
never had...tell me that a diner with interior would
have a "walking waiter" similar to the walking
brakeman or baggage smasher but inside the car....tell
me to KEEP DREAMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


--- Doug Peck <portlines@...> wrote:
> Here's the word on the 2002 Lionel AF catalog----
>
> First----NO steam engine, contrary to all those
> rumors that I didn't believe
> anyway!
>
> (1) NYC PA A-A passenger set, with 4 cars.
> (Possible extra car as
> well....need to verify that).
> (2) Rock Island GP9
> (3) Rock Island bay-window caboose
> (4) Checkerboard Tower (When it rains, it pours!)
> (5) SFe flatcar with jet canister loads
> (6) Gilbert Chemical tankcar, in white.
> (7) Reading gondola with pipeload
> (8) 3-Bay hopper (forgot the roadname)
> (9) C&O boxcar
> (10) NP boxcar
>
> We'll be accepting advance orders
> immediately....minimum 10% discount.
>
> Doug Peck
> Port Lines Hobby Supplies
> 6 Storeybrooke Drive
> Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
> Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST
> 978-465-8798
> 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please).
> http://www.portlines.com/
> portlines@...
> VISA --MC--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted.
> NEW ! View our entire AF Parts Catalog, as well
> as Equipment Sales
> Inventories On-Line !!!!
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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Group: S-Trains Message: 16484 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Flyonel
I'm a Flyer Junkie and will have to have them all no mater :-)

Carl

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Christensen [mailto:semaphoresam@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 10:19 AM
To: portlines@...; S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [S-Trains] 2002 Flyonel


Tell me that this PA AA set will come with
Railsounds...should not be too hard to accomplish even
for Lionel. What about those passenger cars...will
they be silver lettered for NYC or the gray "century"
style. Tell me that even though they will using the
existing body types these passenger cars will come
with interiors rather than silhouettes...tell me a
four car set would be an obs, coach,diner, and
combine...and no un-prototypical dome car which NYC
never had...tell me that a diner with interior would
have a "walking waiter" similar to the walking
brakeman or baggage smasher but inside the car....tell
me to KEEP DREAMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


--- Doug Peck <portlines@...> wrote:
> Here's the word on the 2002 Lionel AF catalog----
>
> First----NO steam engine, contrary to all those
> rumors that I didn't believe
> anyway!
>
> (1) NYC PA A-A passenger set, with 4 cars.
> (Possible extra car as
> well....need to verify that).
> (2) Rock Island GP9
> (3) Rock Island bay-window caboose
> (4) Checkerboard Tower (When it rains, it pours!)
> (5) SFe flatcar with jet canister loads
> (6) Gilbert Chemical tankcar, in white.
> (7) Reading gondola with pipeload
> (8) 3-Bay hopper (forgot the roadname)
> (9) C&O boxcar
> (10) NP boxcar
>
> We'll be accepting advance orders
> immediately....minimum 10% discount.
>
> Doug Peck
> Port Lines Hobby Supplies
> 6 Storeybrooke Drive
> Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
> Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST
> 978-465-8798
> 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please).
> http://www.portlines.com/
> portlines@...
> VISA --MC--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted.
> NEW ! View our entire AF Parts Catalog, as well
> as Equipment Sales
> Inventories On-Line !!!!
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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Group: S-Trains Message: 16485 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: Helix - Deluxe Online Grade Calculator
neeeeeet.....bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Yorke" <s_trains@...>
To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 9:39 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Helix - Deluxe Online Grade Calculator


> I am happy (and proud) to announce the latest S-Trains
> web page, the Deluxe Online Helix Grade Calculator.
> Please check it out.
>
> http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/helix/percent_grade.htm
>
> If you have played with these numbers please check my
> figures.
>
> And always remember to 'have fun'.
>
> =====
> Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
> Photography - Computers - Trains
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
> http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
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>
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>
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>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16486 From: erierailroad@aol.com Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: 2002 Chionel
I don't know about you guys, but I'm not to happy with my American Flyer
trains being made in China now.

Jack
Group: S-Trains Message: 16487 From: Steve Blancard Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: 4x8 layout
My son and I have decided to build a 4x8 layout using original AF track
and accessories. I would appreciate the groups recommendation for the
best materials, i.e., type of plywood, thickness, etc. Also should the
plywood be covered with some other material before laying track? We are
thinking of making a large oval with a figure-8 in the middle connected
by 2 switches. Maybe a siding or too as well. But we are still open to
ideas if anyone cares to pass them along.

BTW, The 336 loco I recently bought is now running great and is quite a
sight to see. Thanks to everyone who helped out with the
troubleshooting and maintenace tips.

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 16488 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: China Trains
Jack wrote"I don't know about you guys, but I'm not to happy with my American
Flyer
trains being made in China now."

Jack I know about how you feel and probably some others to. Problem here is,
the China made trains have a Quality you couldn't get with Flionel trains.
Adn if you could see my 336 running with the new can motor with flywheel I
think you might agree it's even better than the Gilbert stuff. That is, if
you like to RUN your trains and not constantly have to tinker with them just
to go forwards and backwards. I'm now able to pull over 25 cars with my 336
at such a slow speed you cant hear it choo choo. BUT, I always run it fast so
it will smoke and choo choo.
If the new Flyer trains from China are even close to what S-Helper has, then
I think we have benefitted from this move. I feel that a lot of your HO and N
people won't change scales, when space and monet permit, because they like to
operate the trains. Now they might be able to do this in S-Scale.
Just my humble opinion.


THE TRAINNUT
CHRIS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16489 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: WAY OFF TOPIC
If I REMEMBER CORRECTLY....Quite a few years ago ( EARLY 80'S?) Lionel
decided to close their USA plants and make all their trains in
Mexico....Seems that so many people went with the idea of "IF YOU MAKE THEM
IN MEXICO....LET THEM BUY THEM!!!!" Sales crashed and Lionel moved back to
the good old USA!!!
I guess that maybe patriotism for our country has gone away with wanting
cheap stuff, along with so many new people moving here from other lands...I
myself, am tired of only finding out of the country stuff...I know we have a
couple of "s" mfrs. here.....But where does their stuff come from??? I do
buy...But the majority of my purchases are AAAAA FFFFF....Made in New Haven,
Conn...So Quickly We FORGET!!!! BOB


----- Original Message -----
From: <erierailroad@...>
To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 2:12 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] 2002 Chionel


> I don't know about you guys, but I'm not to happy with my American Flyer
> trains being made in China now.
>
> Jack
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16490 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 4x8 layout
STEVE....I BUILT MY LAYOUT 4'-4" X 8'-0"...THIS ALLOWS TWO OVALS OF TRACK
WITH SWITCHES TO CONNECT THEM TOGETHER...BOB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Blancard" <splitdorf@...>
To: "S- Trains list" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 3:39 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] 4x8 layout


> My son and I have decided to build a 4x8 layout using original AF track
> and accessories. I would appreciate the groups recommendation for the
> best materials, i.e., type of plywood, thickness, etc. Also should the
> plywood be covered with some other material before laying track? We are
> thinking of making a large oval with a figure-8 in the middle connected
> by 2 switches. Maybe a siding or too as well. But we are still open to
> ideas if anyone cares to pass them along.
>
> BTW, The 336 loco I recently bought is now running great and is quite a
> sight to see. Thanks to everyone who helped out with the
> troubleshooting and maintenace tips.
>
> Steve Blancard
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16491 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Chionel
Dear Jack,
I bet you were not aware that the A.C. Gilbert Co, made some of their HO
American Flyer track in Japan.
Don

erierailroad@... wrote:

> I don't know about you guys, but I'm not to happy with my American Flyer
> trains being made in China now.
>
> Jack
Group: S-Trains Message: 16492 From: milorod@aol.com Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: Deluxe Online Grade Calculator
In a message dated 1/12/02 4:12:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:

<< Deluxe Online Grade Calculator >>
Paul this truely is a nice tool fro calculating helix data.
THanks a bunch

Milo
J&M Custom Model Train Layouts
http://members.aol.com/milorod/jm.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 16493 From: TED R LARSON Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: NASG Project
Occasionally there is discussion regarding projects that NASG might do
for the benefit of the members, and S scale in general. A while back, a
Canadian company was taking orders for train station train order boards.
Since these were so common, and useful to any flavor of S modeling, I
expected that there would be plenty of orders. For whatever reason, this
project did not happen. Therefore, I suggest it to the NASG project
committee. Seems like this might be best done in cooperation with a
company already making similar product in another scale, especially if
that company is interested in S scale products.

Ted Larson
ADULT: A person who has stopped growing at
both ends and is now growing in the middle.

________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16494 From: erierailroad@aol.com Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: 2002 Chionel
In a message dated 1/12/2002 4:33:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
robin@... writes:


> <Dear Jack,
> < I bet you were not aware that the A.C. Gilbert Co, made some of their
> HO
> <American Flyer track in Japan.
> <Don
>

Dear Don,
I don't have a problem with products being made in China, and I do purchase
SHS, but what I can't stand is when a 100 year old American company,(Lionel)
closes its US plant, fires off union workers, and imports all production,
then charges higher prices for its products. Sure the labor rate is cheaper
in China, so why doesn't Lionel lower its prices by 50 percent for the US
consumer? It won't because of Maddox and Youngs greed. By the way Maddox did
the same thing to Bachmann, years ago. He fired all union employees and sent
production to China.

I for one will continue to purchase SHS, AM and MTH but will boycott Lionel
forever.

Jack



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16495 From: Euell Johnson Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Chionel
One would think that the American Flyer brand name and possibly the tooling
would be available for sale to a conscientious American manufacturer.

Having spent over 40 years in American manufacturing, I fail to see the
advantages to companies going off shore. Mexicao maybe, but not off shore.
American companies are now averaging about 8% of the sales price as the cost
of direct labor. In lowering the labor cost, there is a substantial increase
in transportation and storage costs. And there is a delay in getting the
product to market.

Seems to me that the necessity of going offshore is a result of poor
management decisions at the very top of the business in the first place.

EJ

----- Original Message -----
From: <erierailroad@...>
To: <robin@...>
Cc: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 4:06 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] 2002 Chionel


> In a message dated 1/12/2002 4:33:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> robin@... writes:
>
>
> > <Dear Jack,
> > < I bet you were not aware that the A.C. Gilbert Co, made some of
their
> > HO
> > <American Flyer track in Japan.
> > <Don
> >
>
> Dear Don,
> I don't have a problem with products being made in China, and I do
purchase
> SHS, but what I can't stand is when a 100 year old American
company,(Lionel)
> closes its US plant, fires off union workers, and imports all production,
> then charges higher prices for its products. Sure the labor rate is
cheaper
> in China, so why doesn't Lionel lower its prices by 50 percent for the US
> consumer? It won't because of Maddox and Youngs greed. By the way Maddox
did
> the same thing to Bachmann, years ago. He fired all union employees and
sent
> production to China.
>
> I for one will continue to purchase SHS, AM and MTH but will boycott
Lionel
> forever.
>
> Jack
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16496 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Chionel
Dear Euell,
If you have any of SHS freight cars,, look at the end lettering. To make the
end lettering takes one "hit" of a pad printer. When we were having them printed
here is cost us $0.25 per hit, in China it cost 0.05. If you look further, you will
see metal formed hand grabs. To have one of them inserted here, it cost 0.35, in
China it is 0.06 for this op. Paint masks are usually 0.60 here and 0.12 over
there. As you multiply all of the hits, ops and mask operations and then calculate
cost, the cars we market here for $39.95, would cost well over a $100 if we had them
made here. Shipping cost from there to here are very small when you consider how
many cars you are sending over and it only takes 21 to 27 days to get here so the
"S" market will wait.
These are the reasons why just about ALL model trains are now made in China.
Don
PS Re: Maddox and Bachmann - I believe that Bachmann is owned by a Hong Kong company

Euell Johnson wrote:

> One would think that the American Flyer brand name and possibly the tooling
> would be available for sale to a conscientious American manufacturer.
>
> Having spent over 40 years in American manufacturing, I fail to see the
> advantages to companies going off shore. Mexicao maybe, but not off shore.
> American companies are now averaging about 8% of the sales price as the cost
> of direct labor. In lowering the labor cost, there is a substantial increase
> in transportation and storage costs. And there is a delay in getting the
> product to market.
>
> Seems to me that the necessity of going offshore is a result of poor
> management decisions at the very top of the business in the first place.
>
> EJ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <erierailroad@...>
> To: <robin@...>
> Cc: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 4:06 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] 2002 Chionel
>
> > In a message dated 1/12/2002 4:33:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > robin@... writes:
> >
> >
> > > <Dear Jack,
> > > < I bet you were not aware that the A.C. Gilbert Co, made some of
> their
> > > HO
> > > <American Flyer track in Japan.
> > > <Don
> > >
> >
> > Dear Don,
> > I don't have a problem with products being made in China, and I do
> purchase
> > SHS, but what I can't stand is when a 100 year old American
> company,(Lionel)
> > closes its US plant, fires off union workers, and imports all production,
> > then charges higher prices for its products. Sure the labor rate is
> cheaper
> > in China, so why doesn't Lionel lower its prices by 50 percent for the US
> > consumer? It won't because of Maddox and Youngs greed. By the way Maddox
> did
> > the same thing to Bachmann, years ago. He fired all union employees and
> sent
> > production to China.
> >
> > I for one will continue to purchase SHS, AM and MTH but will boycott
> Lionel
> > forever.
> >
> > Jack
Group: S-Trains Message: 16497 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Chionel
So someone please tell me which famous American Brand
is not made in China or elsewhere were you can get
child labor for pennies a day??? Next time you are in
a store look at all toys, and electronics, clothing,
etc....how much says Made in the USA???? Even many
components of "American" autos are made overseas.
Price and quality is what drives the consumer. True
Lionel had a bad experience in moving their production
to Mexico early on...they could not deliver the
quality. Look at MTH who has captured over 50% of the
O gauge market. MTH deliver the quality at a great
price and none of it is made in the USA, but the
consumer loves it!

As for American Flyer, I remember my rocket sled had a
motor Made in Japan way back in the late 50's ( or was
it 1960?)

If you want quality trains made in the USA, buy
Pridelines. It is O gauge but they make em like they
used to where they used to!! Otherwise pray we never
go to war with China as model railroading will be
stopped dead in its own tracks!

--- Euell Johnson <bigfoot@...> wrote:
> One would think that the American Flyer brand name
> and possibly the tooling
> would be available for sale to a conscientious
> American manufacturer.
>
> Having spent over 40 years in American
> manufacturing, I fail to see the
> advantages to companies going off shore. Mexicao
> maybe, but not off shore.
> American companies are now averaging about 8% of the
> sales price as the cost
> of direct labor. In lowering the labor cost, there
> is a substantial increase
> in transportation and storage costs. And there is a
> delay in getting the
> product to market.
>
> Seems to me that the necessity of going offshore is
> a result of poor
> management decisions at the very top of the business
> in the first place.
>
> EJ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <erierailroad@...>
> To: <robin@...>
> Cc: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 4:06 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] 2002 Chionel
>
>
> > In a message dated 1/12/2002 4:33:44 PM Eastern
> Standard Time,
> > robin@... writes:
> >
> >
> > > <Dear Jack,
> > > < I bet you were not aware that the A.C.
> Gilbert Co, made some of
> their
> > > HO
> > > <American Flyer track in Japan.
> > > <Don
> > >
> >
> > Dear Don,
> > I don't have a problem with products being made in
> China, and I do
> purchase
> > SHS, but what I can't stand is when a 100 year old
> American
> company,(Lionel)
> > closes its US plant, fires off union workers, and
> imports all production,
> > then charges higher prices for its products. Sure
> the labor rate is
> cheaper
> > in China, so why doesn't Lionel lower its prices
> by 50 percent for the US
> > consumer? It won't because of Maddox and Youngs
> greed. By the way Maddox
> did
> > the same thing to Bachmann, years ago. He fired
> all union employees and
> sent
> > production to China.
> >
> > I for one will continue to purchase SHS, AM and
> MTH but will boycott
> Lionel
> > forever.
> >
> > Jack
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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Group: S-Trains Message: 16498 From: Wayne and Alice Beachy Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: 1/64 Fire Trucks
Hi S Gaugers,

Corgi has issued a new line of 1/64 vehicles. I ordered some of the fire trucks from Die Cast Direct. The American LaFrance and Seagrave Pumper are perfect. They are both early 1950s models. The detail is not the same as Code 3 or the larger Corgi, but they are excellent for a layout scene and best of all, they only cost $5, not $30 - $50. The other two fire trucks are a Mack B open cab and GMC conventional cab.

Be aware, They also advertise the Chevrolet fire chief's car as 1/64th but it is definitely O scale.

Click on Die Cast Directs web page http://www.diecastdirect.com/Default.asp and check it out. Do a search by scale and check out their other 1/64 stuff. You may be able to find these in local stores, or you may look forever.

Wayne Beachy
Atlantic Coast S Gaugers
Virginia Central Division
http://sgauge.homestead.com/acsgindex.html
http://rapidrail.homestead.com/welcome.html



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16499 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Dreeeaeam, dream, dream, dream, dream.
>Tell me that this PA AA set will come with
>Railsounds. . . What about those passenger cars...will
>they be silver lettered for NYC or the gray "century"
>style. Tell me that even though they will using the
>existing body types these passenger cars will come
>with interiors rather than silhouettes...tell me a
>four car set would be an obs, coach,diner, and
>combine...and no un-prototypical dome car .

I have not seen it but here is what I think.
Fluted stainless cars with grey paint.
Sillouhettes (of course)
Dome car, absolutely. Dome diner offered later.
Walking brakeman style waiter . . . !!!!!!
Ha ha hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhaahhahaahhahaahh
I am ROTFLASTC!
(Rolling On The Floor And Scaring The Cat)

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16500 From: Scott Brown Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 1/64 Fire Trucks
Guys, if you search by scale you will only get the code 3 items. You need to
search by manufacturer and chose Corgi Showcase to see the items Wayne is
talking about. They look pretty good.

Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne and Alice Beachy" <abeachy@...>
To: "Jack Early" <earlyarthurj@...>; "Warren Jagodnik"
<jagodnikwl@...>; "John Mclaren" <johnkathym@...>; "George Scutt"
<gscutt1@...>; "John Rodgers" <jfrodgers@...>; "Bill Novak"
<wjnovak99@...>; "Bob Tufts" <puffntoot@...>; "Bruce Tibbetts"
<bruce_tibbetts@...>; "David Horn" <dsme_horn@...>; "Jon
Bollinger" <jon.bollinger@...>; "Scott Brown"
<sbrown56@...>; "Mike Kendel" <mksk1@...>; "Barry Keiser"
<barry.keiser@...>; "Phil Leibensperger" <flyerman@...>; "Wayne
Beachy" <wbeachy@...>; "Jim Hodges" <jhodges@...>;
"William Armstrong" <army1@...>; "Tommy Agee" <flyertrains@...>;
"Terry Tyson" <tyson5va@...>; "Stuart Gordon" <rmgsbg@...>; "Sam
C. Williamson" <scwilliamson@...>; "Nick Colleran"
<Colleran@...>; "Mike Ranelli" <mike@...>; "Mike
Lockatell" <CMarti8855@...>; "Les Skeans" <lskeans@...>; "Joe
Haenn" <joestrainrepair@...>; "Jim Schiele" <jschiele@...>;
"Jeffrey Hill" <jshmqqn@...>; "Jack Wise" <unit875@...>; "Gerald
D. Burks" <JDBurks@...>; "George Hoffer" <gehoffer@...>; "Fess
Conyers" <DDConyers2@...>; "Ernie Stinson" <clairernie@...>; "Don
Retzer" <dretzer@...>; "David Anderson" <wrgdave@...>;
"Chesterfield Hobbies" <chsthobb@...>; "Bill Oertly"
<bphoertly@...>; "Bill McAdams" <bpcc@...>; "Tom Robinson"
<tomrsgauge@...>; "Wayne Colleran" <billmar@...>; "Ken McNelly"
<kennymac2@...>; "David Smith" <kd4pkl@...>; "Dan DeSantis"
<pufferbelly@...>; "Bob Stall" <rolands@...>; "Lee
Shaal" <shaal_lj@...>; "David Bulkin" <dsbulkin@...>; "Ted Zanders"
<trzp1800@...>; "Calvin and Debbie Azarowicz" <av8@...>; "Vance
Kinlaw" <kinlawyer@...>; "Tom Kennedy"
<zpkennedyt@...>; "Tom Davis" <tomdavis12@...>; "Ron
Wilson" <rewilson@...>; "Rhett George" <rtg@...>; "Pete
Hildenbrand" <djandpete@...>; "Kevin Smith"
<moylesmith@...>; "Ken Holloway" <ken@...>; "Jim
Ranck" <ranckjr@...>; "Harold Henion" <hchenion@...>; "Gene
Sankowski" <geneandpat@...>; "Don Craft" <rteng@...>; "Dave
Ewing" <bryce@...>; "Cliff Brown" <cliffbrown@...>; "Charlie
Walker" <walkece@...>; "Butch Erickson"
<butchandiane@...>; "Brian Wong" <wong@...>; "Andrew Angyal"
<angyal@...>; "Al Sabella" <f105al@...>; "David Garber"
<dngarb@...>; "Maurice Wooden" <mwooden@...>; "Steve Price"
<sprice7025@...>; "BAAFC Walt Westerfield" <marygw2@...>; "BAAFC
Ron Kolb" <rontrains@...>; "BAAFC Dave Blum" <david.blum@...>;
"BAAFC David Avedesian" <David_Avedesian@...>; "BAAFC Lloyd E.
Lippert" <lelippert@...>; "Mike Coles" <mecoles@...>; "Train
Depot" <traindepot@...>; "Tony Demasi" <tony07@...>; "Mac
McGrath" <macster1@...>; "John Foley" <foley164@...>; "Glenn
Ritter" <gartrain@...>; "Ed Stetzenbach" <estetzenba@...>;
"Jeff Madden" <nasgdispatch@...>; "Don Heimburger"
<heimbrgrhouse@...>; "S Gaugian Charley Taylor" <bluesT66@...>;
"S-Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "Showcase"
<showcaseline@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 7:01 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] 1/64 Fire Trucks


> Hi S Gaugers,
>
> Corgi has issued a new line of 1/64 vehicles. I ordered some of the fire
trucks from Die Cast Direct. The American LaFrance and Seagrave Pumper are
perfect. They are both early 1950s models. The detail is not the same as
Code 3 or the larger Corgi, but they are excellent for a layout scene and
best of all, they only cost $5, not $30 - $50. The other two fire trucks
are a Mack B open cab and GMC conventional cab.
>
> Be aware, They also advertise the Chevrolet fire chief's car as 1/64th but
it is definitely O scale.
>
> Click on Die Cast Directs web page
http://www.diecastdirect.com/Default.asp and check it out. Do a search by
scale and check out their other 1/64 stuff. You may be able to find these
in local stores, or you may look forever.
>
> Wayne Beachy
> Atlantic Coast S Gaugers
> Virginia Central Division
> http://sgauge.homestead.com/acsgindex.html
> http://rapidrail.homestead.com/welcome.html
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16501 From: David Dewey Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Chionel
Besides the HO track, my ACG Track Maintenance car has "JAPAN" clearly
stamped on it's motor!
Mexico problem wasn't costs, but quality. Piano Manufacturers had the same
problems when they tried Mexico. Seems that the culture is VERY family
oriented, so after training Juan to do some complex assembly work, one day
you walk by the production line and there is Jose, his brother, trying to do
the same work because Juan was sick that day! The piano company finally gave
up and moved back stateside too. Don't know if they still are, though!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16502 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Chionel
Dear Michael,
I have visited the factory that makes our products three times over the last 7
years. I can assure you, that I did not see any assembling ours or American Models
trains. I cannot talk about every factory in China, but I can about the ones I
visited where our products are produced.
Don
PS What "children" made your computer? Think about it!

Michael Christensen wrote:

> So someone please tell me which famous American Brand
> is not made in China or elsewhere were you can get
> child labor for pennies a day??? Next time you are in
> a store look at all toys, and electronics, clothing,
> etc....how much says Made in the USA???? Even many
> components of "American" autos are made overseas.
> Price and quality is what drives the consumer. True
> Lionel had a bad experience in moving their production
> to Mexico early on...they could not deliver the
> quality. Look at MTH who has captured over 50% of the
> O gauge market. MTH deliver the quality at a great
> price and none of it is made in the USA, but the
> consumer loves it!
>
> As for American Flyer, I remember my rocket sled had a
> motor Made in Japan way back in the late 50's ( or was
> it 1960?)
>
> If you want quality trains made in the USA, buy
> Pridelines. It is O gauge but they make em like they
> used to where they used to!! Otherwise pray we never
> go to war with China as model railroading will be
> stopped dead in its own tracks!

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 16503 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: China Flyer
Some of you guys out there crack me up. Almost EVERYTHING else is made in
China. They have the factories and the tooling. I bet you same guys would
complain if they hung you with a NEW rope. What is, is! Flyonel will do what
they want to do and all the grumbling in the world isn't going to change
anything. We either buy it, or we don't. I buy all their nicely decorated box
cars because they are pretty. The plain Jane stuff I don't. I run S-Helper
cars because they are better made and more prototypical looking. I don't like
Winter much because it's cold, but it ain't going away because I don't like
it.....Smile y'all and get on with it...Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16504 From: Robert Jackson Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Gates, runners, and sprue
Gate describes how the horse moves its legs, runner is something that occurs
too frequently in my wife's hosiery, and sprue is an infectious disease.
Now, can we just leave this alone?
Bob Jackson
Group: S-Trains Message: 16505 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: eBay listings
Hi guys,

Is it my imagination, or has the ending auction prices on eBay for repainted vintage Flyer locos risen a lot lately?

Just an observation on my part, I could be wrong. Can anyone verify or contradict?

Thanks,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16506 From: Donald P. Abrams Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Pulling 66x aluminum passenger cars
Thinking outside the box -- what about making the cars free rolling?
Would the truck sideframe inserts made for freight car trucks fit in these
passenger car trucks. Maybe with some modification? Also my hobby shop
carries R/C cars. These utilize tiny ball bearings that may fit this
application with some 'tinkering.'
Just a thought.
Parts to convert the original motor truck frames to Flyonel DC motors would
be:
640-8007-120 $11.10 Motor & Gear Assy.
640-8009-110 $ 1.40 Motor Mount.
640-8251-109 $ 7.00 Shaft and Gear Assy.
640-8112-116 $36.30 Electronic E-unit.
640-8153-184 $ 0.75 Worm Whl. (nylon gear for axle)
This is from the 2001 service parts price list.
Take care,
Don
P.S. Of course the 360 uses a smaller motor that the 470. Maybe even with
rebushed chassis they still aren't up to the task.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16507 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Chionel
Don: Your point is well taken...the line about "made
by children" is a bit over the top. I am sure that it
would not apply to your fine products! My point should
have been it is made overseas as it is so much
cheaper. Some products are allegedly made by children
to futher reduce the cost. I agree that children did
not make my computer, but in my house they can operate
it better than the adults! Michael



Don Thompson <robin@...> wrote:
> Dear Michael,
> I have visited the factory that makes our
> products three times over the last 7
> years. I can assure you, that I did not see any
> assembling ours or American Models
> trains. I cannot talk about every factory in China,
> but I can about the ones I
> visited where our products are produced.
> Don
> PS What "children" made your computer? Think about
> it!
>
> Michael Christensen wrote:
>
> > So someone please tell me which famous American
> Brand
> > is not made in China or elsewhere were you can get
> > child labor for pennies a day??? Next time you are
> in
> > a store look at all toys, and electronics,
> clothing,
> > etc....how much says Made in the USA???? Even many
> > components of "American" autos are made overseas.
> > Price and quality is what drives the consumer.
> True
> > Lionel had a bad experience in moving their
> production
> > to Mexico early on...they could not deliver the
> > quality. Look at MTH who has captured over 50% of
> the
> > O gauge market. MTH deliver the quality at a great
> > price and none of it is made in the USA, but the
> > consumer loves it!
> >
> > As for American Flyer, I remember my rocket sled
> had a
> > motor Made in Japan way back in the late 50's ( or
> was
> > it 1960?)
> >
> > If you want quality trains made in the USA, buy
> > Pridelines. It is O gauge but they make em like
> they
> > used to where they used to!! Otherwise pray we
> never
> > go to war with China as model railroading will be
> > stopped dead in its own tracks!
>
> -- -- Don Thompson
> S Helper Service Inc.
> http://www.showcaseline.com
> 1.800.465.0303
> New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars
> are now shipping!
>
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
>
>


__________________________________________________
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Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16508 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Chionel
We will never go to war with China, because they will not ship us the guns
and ammo.
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16509 From: Wayne and Alice Beachy Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 1/64 Fire Trucks
Hey all,

On the right side of the home screen, click on "Search by Scale". The next
page gives you pull downs, click on S scale and leave the lower pull down at
all categories. The first page is all Code 3. Click on next at the bottom
of the page and you will get to the Corgi stuff. There is other 1/64 stuff
there besides fire trucks. I was only interested in fire trucks, however.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Brown" <sbrown56@...>
To: "Jack Early" <earlyarthurj@...>; "Warren Jagodnik"
<jagodnikwl@...>; "John Mclaren" <johnkathym@...>; "George Scutt"
<gscutt1@...>; "John Rodgers" <jfrodgers@...>; "Bill Novak"
<wjnovak99@...>; "Bob Tufts" <puffntoot@...>; "Bruce Tibbetts"
<bruce_tibbetts@...>; "David Horn" <dsme_horn@...>; "Jon
Bollinger" <jon.bollinger@...>; "Mike Kendel" <mksk1@...>;
"Barry Keiser" <barry.keiser@...>; "Phil Leibensperger"
<flyerman@...>; "Wayne Beachy" <wbeachy@...>; "Jim
Hodges" <jhodges@...>; "William Armstrong" <army1@...>;
"Tommy Agee" <flyertrains@...>; "Terry Tyson" <tyson5va@...>; "Stuart
Gordon" <rmgsbg@...>; "Sam C. Williamson"
<scwilliamson@...>; "Nick Colleran" <Colleran@...>;
"Mike Ranelli" <mike@...>; "Mike Lockatell"
<CMarti8855@...>; "Les Skeans" <lskeans@...>; "Joe Haenn"
<joestrainrepair@...>; "Jim Schiele" <jschiele@...>; "Jeffrey
Hill" <jshmqqn@...>; "Jack Wise" <unit875@...>; "Gerald D. Burks"
<JDBurks@...>; "George Hoffer" <gehoffer@...>; "Fess Conyers"
<DDConyers2@...>; "Ernie Stinson" <clairernie@...>; "Don Retzer"
<dretzer@...>; "David Anderson" <wrgdave@...>;
"Chesterfield Hobbies" <chsthobb@...>; "Bill Oertly"
<bphoertly@...>; "Bill McAdams" <bpcc@...>; "Tom Robinson"
<tomrsgauge@...>; "Wayne Colleran" <billmar@...>; "Ken McNelly"
<kennymac2@...>; "David Smith" <kd4pkl@...>; "Dan DeSantis"
<pufferbelly@...>; "Bob Stall" <rolands@...>; "Lee
Shaal" <shaal_lj@...>; "David Bulkin" <dsbulkin@...>; "Ted Zanders"
<trzp1800@...>; "Calvin and Debbie Azarowicz" <av8@...>; "Vance
Kinlaw" <kinlawyer@...>; "Tom Kennedy"
<zpkennedyt@...>; "Tom Davis" <tomdavis12@...>; "Ron
Wilson" <rewilson@...>; "Rhett George" <rtg@...>; "Pete
Hildenbrand" <djandpete@...>; "Kevin Smith"
<moylesmith@...>; "Ken Holloway" <ken@...>; "Jim
Ranck" <ranckjr@...>; "Harold Henion" <hchenion@...>; "Gene
Sankowski" <geneandpat@...>; "Don Craft" <rteng@...>; "Dave
Ewing" <bryce@...>; "Cliff Brown" <cliffbrown@...>; "Charlie
Walker" <walkece@...>; "Butch Erickson"
<butchandiane@...>; "Brian Wong" <wong@...>; "Andrew Angyal"
<angyal@...>; "Al Sabella" <f105al@...>; "David Garber"
<dngarb@...>; "Maurice Wooden" <mwooden@...>; "Steve Price"
<sprice7025@...>; "BAAFC Walt Westerfield" <marygw2@...>; "BAAFC
Ron Kolb" <rontrains@...>; "BAAFC Dave Blum" <david.blum@...>;
"BAAFC David Avedesian" <David_Avedesian@...>; "BAAFC Lloyd E.
Lippert" <lelippert@...>; "Mike Coles" <mecoles@...>; "Train
Depot" <traindepot@...>; "Tony Demasi" <tony07@...>; "Mac
McGrath" <macster1@...>; "John Foley" <foley164@...>; "Glenn
Ritter" <gartrain@...>; "Ed Stetzenbach" <estetzenba@...>;
"Jeff Madden" <nasgdispatch@...>; "Don Heimburger"
<heimbrgrhouse@...>; "S Gaugian Charley Taylor" <bluesT66@...>;
"S-Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "Showcase"
<showcaseline@yahoogroups.com>; "Wayne and Alice Beachy" <abeachy@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 7:37 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] 1/64 Fire Trucks


> Guys, if you search by scale you will only get the code 3 items. You need
to
> search by manufacturer and chose Corgi Showcase to see the items Wayne is
> talking about. They look pretty good.
>
> Scott
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wayne and Alice Beachy" <abeachy@...>
> To: "Jack Early" <earlyarthurj@...>; "Warren Jagodnik"
> <jagodnikwl@...>; "John Mclaren" <johnkathym@...>; "George Scutt"
> <gscutt1@...>; "John Rodgers" <jfrodgers@...>; "Bill Novak"
> <wjnovak99@...>; "Bob Tufts" <puffntoot@...>; "Bruce Tibbetts"
> <bruce_tibbetts@...>; "David Horn" <dsme_horn@...>; "Jon
> Bollinger" <jon.bollinger@...>; "Scott Brown"
> <sbrown56@...>; "Mike Kendel" <mksk1@...>; "Barry
Keiser"
> <barry.keiser@...>; "Phil Leibensperger" <flyerman@...>; "Wayne
> Beachy" <wbeachy@...>; "Jim Hodges" <jhodges@...>;
> "William Armstrong" <army1@...>; "Tommy Agee" <flyertrains@...>;
> "Terry Tyson" <tyson5va@...>; "Stuart Gordon" <rmgsbg@...>;
"Sam
> C. Williamson" <scwilliamson@...>; "Nick Colleran"
> <Colleran@...>; "Mike Ranelli" <mike@...>; "Mike
> Lockatell" <CMarti8855@...>; "Les Skeans" <lskeans@...>;
"Joe
> Haenn" <joestrainrepair@...>; "Jim Schiele" <jschiele@...>;
> "Jeffrey Hill" <jshmqqn@...>; "Jack Wise" <unit875@...>;
"Gerald
> D. Burks" <JDBurks@...>; "George Hoffer" <gehoffer@...>; "Fess
> Conyers" <DDConyers2@...>; "Ernie Stinson" <clairernie@...>; "Don
> Retzer" <dretzer@...>; "David Anderson"
<wrgdave@...>;
> "Chesterfield Hobbies" <chsthobb@...>; "Bill Oertly"
> <bphoertly@...>; "Bill McAdams" <bpcc@...>; "Tom
Robinson"
> <tomrsgauge@...>; "Wayne Colleran" <billmar@...>; "Ken
McNelly"
> <kennymac2@...>; "David Smith" <kd4pkl@...>; "Dan DeSantis"
> <pufferbelly@...>; "Bob Stall" <rolands@...>; "Lee
> Shaal" <shaal_lj@...>; "David Bulkin" <dsbulkin@...>; "Ted
Zanders"
> <trzp1800@...>; "Calvin and Debbie Azarowicz" <av8@...>;
"Vance
> Kinlaw" <kinlawyer@...>; "Tom Kennedy"
> <zpkennedyt@...>; "Tom Davis" <tomdavis12@...>; "Ron
> Wilson" <rewilson@...>; "Rhett George" <rtg@...>; "Pete
> Hildenbrand" <djandpete@...>; "Kevin Smith"
> <moylesmith@...>; "Ken Holloway" <ken@...>; "Jim
> Ranck" <ranckjr@...>; "Harold Henion" <hchenion@...>; "Gene
> Sankowski" <geneandpat@...>; "Don Craft" <rteng@...>; "Dave
> Ewing" <bryce@...>; "Cliff Brown" <cliffbrown@...>; "Charlie
> Walker" <walkece@...>; "Butch Erickson"
> <butchandiane@...>; "Brian Wong" <wong@...>; "Andrew
Angyal"
> <angyal@...>; "Al Sabella" <f105al@...>; "David Garber"
> <dngarb@...>; "Maurice Wooden" <mwooden@...>; "Steve
Price"
> <sprice7025@...>; "BAAFC Walt Westerfield" <marygw2@...>; "BAAFC
> Ron Kolb" <rontrains@...>; "BAAFC Dave Blum" <david.blum@...>;
> "BAAFC David Avedesian" <David_Avedesian@...>; "BAAFC Lloyd E.
> Lippert" <lelippert@...>; "Mike Coles" <mecoles@...>; "Train
> Depot" <traindepot@...>; "Tony Demasi" <tony07@...>;
"Mac
> McGrath" <macster1@...>; "John Foley" <foley164@...>; "Glenn
> Ritter" <gartrain@...>; "Ed Stetzenbach" <estetzenba@...>;
> "Jeff Madden" <nasgdispatch@...>; "Don Heimburger"
> <heimbrgrhouse@...>; "S Gaugian Charley Taylor" <bluesT66@...>;
> "S-Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "Showcase"
> <showcaseline@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 7:01 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] 1/64 Fire Trucks
>
>
> > Hi S Gaugers,
> >
> > Corgi has issued a new line of 1/64 vehicles. I ordered some of the
fire
> trucks from Die Cast Direct. The American LaFrance and Seagrave Pumper
are
> perfect. They are both early 1950s models. The detail is not the same as
> Code 3 or the larger Corgi, but they are excellent for a layout scene and
> best of all, they only cost $5, not $30 - $50. The other two fire trucks
> are a Mack B open cab and GMC conventional cab.
> >
> > Be aware, They also advertise the Chevrolet fire chief's car as 1/64th
but
> it is definitely O scale.
> >
> > Click on Die Cast Directs web page
> http://www.diecastdirect.com/Default.asp and check it out. Do a search by
> scale and check out their other 1/64 stuff. You may be able to find these
> in local stores, or you may look forever.
> >
> > Wayne Beachy
> > Atlantic Coast S Gaugers
> > Virginia Central Division
> > http://sgauge.homestead.com/acsgindex.html
> > http://rapidrail.homestead.com/welcome.html
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16510 From: TCS Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Here we go again
Sorry for the off topic post all, but...............

Seems like some folks misunderstood my question about Walthers.

What I'm trying to do is get another wholesaler like Walthers to stock
my decals and sell them to other hobby shops, like Western Star & Train
Center. I will still be doing my mail orders from everybody.

All you need to do is email me, not Walthers, saying why they should
stock my decals. Somehow describe why my decals are so much different
from the others. Just change the SUBJECT to something else, PLEASE do
not reply to this email, with the subject, Re: Here we go again.

I'm going to send a package to them within the next two weeks with
samples, full color catalog, (almost like my web page). A list of other
hobby shops that sell my decals.

It does not hurt to have another wholesaler selling my line of decals.

Some hobby shops rather deal with Walthers as they get all their
bills/invoices from one wholesaler. They would stock my decals if
Walthers would sell them, but they will not buy from Western Star or
Train Center or me.

Thanks in advance
---
---
Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals
N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals
26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054
Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@...
Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/
Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/
NMRA Member #121756
Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 16511 From: Gregg Mummert Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Fwd: Hallmark motorcycle
>If you haven't picked one up yet or want to get another, alot of the stores
>are selling the leftover ornaments at half off. My daughter picked one up
>for me, know I just need a donut shop!
>
>For those of you haven't seen these, the Hallmark miniature
>Harley-Davidsons are very close if not S scale. This year's (#3) is a
>three-wheeler like the police used to use.
>
>Gregg Mummert
>




Gregg Mummert
gmummert@...
S Gauge - the only way to Fly(er)!


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Group: S-Trains Message: 16512 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Ron Plyler
Anyone out there have a current e-mail address for Ron
Plyler from Franklin, PA? His old address of
tallyho@... is no longer valid.

Thanks,
Joe

=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

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Group: S-Trains Message: 16513 From: David Dewey Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 1/64 Fire Trucks
Gee, what a lot of stuff! Note that they have some period airliners too. Too
Cool!! Now for an airport!
Thanks for pointing it out.
For those w/modern stuff there's even a UPS truck!
S
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16514 From: jahoozdumm Date: 1/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Chionel
I'm aware that it's pretty much inevitable that many products today
are going to be made overseas, labor costs here being what they are.

I've also heard the arguments for free trade with dictatorships, that
it leads eventually to more freedom for the people making the
products. (Although it doesn't seem to be playing out that way in
China.)

I have to confess that I'd be more comfortable buying products made
in, say, South Korea, or Taiwan than China. The Chinese gummint has a
penchant for pointing nuclear ICBMs our way, and I can't help but
wonder if I'm shoveling more plutonium on the fire whenever I buy
something made in China.

But, as many have pointed out, it's hard to buy anything these days
without part of the money going to the Chinese. Oy...

Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16515 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Chionel
What's so different from those made in Mexico in the 80's

erierailroad@... wrote:

> I don't know about you guys, but I'm not to happy with my American Flyer
> trains being made in China now.
>
> Jack
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16516 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: China, Mexico & memory
There has been some discussion on quality vs country. I would like
to offer what I hope is a related observation.

I got a Fender guitar for Christmas, made in Mexico. It cost the same
as the model made in the USA (by Mexicans) in the early 1960's. My
son bought one made in China. The Mexican guitar is about as good
as it gets. The Chinese version is gone!

Quality does not follow race or region but training and competence. I
remember lots of questionable quality in both trains and guitars in the
1960's. This usually came after corporate buy-outs and the absence
of the founder / owner whose name was on the company / product.

BTW - It is logical that Mexico, a Spanish speaking country, might
have the edge over some others in making a "Spanish" guitar.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16517 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Men of S-Gauge:
Every time a manufacturer announces some new toy in production, we get the
"I ain't gonna buy it nohow" contingent writing that the producer is doing
something unethical, immoral, greedy, or just plain anti-railroadin'.
Multiply by a factor of ten when it's Flyonel.

When Lionel produced no Flyer for a couple of years, this list grumbled that
maybe we could convince them to try this and try that. The realists said
"Forget Flyer. Lionel doesn't see an economic advantage in making it."
But lo and behold, Lionel put out a batch of stuff in 2001 and a bigger
batch in 2002. If it sells, they just might make that steam engine yet.

I'm impressed that somehow we got through to these guys. I'm amazed they
are taking such a flyer on Flyer. Sure, I've got enough PA's to last me and
I don't need anymore plastic Budd repaints. These guys are a little out of
touch with the market. Haven't they seen and handled the AM Budd cars? And
then, more of those all plastic freight cars; who needs 'em? But that's
what they make. That's what they have molds of. New paint masks they will
invest in, but new tooling?

Classic management thinking is, "let's test out this market without spending
too much. If it pans out, we'll build new stuff." It's not good clear
thinking, though, because we all already own 10 of everything they can
build. We've been buying it since 1982. In fact, this is '82 Deja Vu. 4-5
freight cars and a couple accessories, next year an expansion to a set plus
more freight cars and accessories, every year building more. Only in 1982,
we were hungry for those sets. They were the classics we never got to buy
as kids and which were now priced out of reach. They were the only
ready-to-run new rolling stock in S-gauge. We're not all that hungry
anymore. Well, we gotta eat, but not just any crust of bread. We have
choices.

Who is going to buy the new Flyonel? Here's a question that would have been
best asked a year or two ago at company headquarters. Guys who are NY
Central fans. Guys who will only buy Flyer. Guys who have one-of-everything
collections. Guys who never bought all the other stuff, maybe are just
getting in. If they included a transformer and track they could widen the
field a little. What a nice start-up package! That's about it. Never mind
all the Chinese objections. Everything is made there. The US is a service
industry. We don't manufacture anymore. I'm a staunch union supporter, but
I know when I'm beaten. Don explained the numbers to me some time ago. You
can't beat those.

The real objection to the new Flyer is that it is not new at all. It is the
same recycled product that we used to love but have had enough of already.
Here's your choice. If you buy it, if we buy it, we encourage Lionel to
make more. They have money and resources and if they find they can sell us
product, they can make us anything. Look at what they spend on 0 gauge
tooling. For every one of you who has moaned and complained about the
dearth of new Flyer production, here is your chance to re-invest in this
company and possibly in a further re-birth of the gauge.

If you believe that Flyer is done, and you just don't care for what Lionel
is selling, don't buy it. SHS and AM and our other suppliers will continue
to service our community with some really nice train stuff. But know this.
If this stuff Lionel just made does not sell out, there will be no more. No
steamer, no nuthin'. It's over, so no more wailing, either.

Failure of this line will be further proof to all parties that the S
community is a small potatoes vestige of a dead gauge. Forget Ross making
those cool crossovers. Forget MTH making any rolling stock. It might shake
things up in China too, affecting production, as big L puts a lot of 0 gauge
money up against our boys.

Me, I'm gonna buy all this crap. I can squeeze another PA set in somewhere.
I can always use a few more freight cars. Here's why I'm rolling the dice.
S-gauge really can use a big company like Lionel building trains for us.
New tooling will change everything. When Mike Wolf gets wind of it, he'll
race big L to market with some of his own. That's what he does. When other
manufacturers see that Big L and MTH are in an S race, they'll start
supporting the gauge, too. Wouldn't you like an AEM-7 in S? Soon, you
might just see a starter set or two. The growth of S as a viable gauge will
pull the lurkers and wannabes out of the woodwork. Little businesses look
to the big guys as indicators. They follow not lead. The customer base
will expand. People who would prefer S for a variety of reasons aren't in
it for lack of a variety of product. More S customers will make it better
for all our manufacturers. Maybe DesPlaines will make more Thrall cars than
a once-a-year short run. Maybe Mannheim Machine will finally make whalebody
tankers. If they don't, Atlas will! They make 'em now in 0.

Competition. It's good for the industry, good for the gauge and good for
us. And it all starts with a little support, right now. I think Lionel has
reached a seminal moment. We can't carp over the details right now. We
have to act in our own best interests and the best interests of S-gauge.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16518 From: Knight, Gene Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Running Flyer with a ZW
Are there any problems running Flyer trains with a Lionel ZW?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16519 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: China Flyer
I agree that sourcing is not the problem. IT IS THE DIRECTION AND CONTROL
OF PRODUCTS AND THEIR DEVELOPEMENT. Fylionel couldn't do a good job with
the production at hand, they won't do better, probably worst at out
sourcing. The SHS and American Models developement done here is far
superior, and is how to assure great finished product as it is created.
There hasn't been anything new in AF since AC Gilbert!!

On Sat, 12 Jan 2002 20:11:43 EST boss31@... writes:
> Some of you guys out there crack me up. Almost EVERYTHING else is
> made in
> China. They have the factories and the tooling. I bet you same guys
> would
> complain if they hung you with a NEW rope. What is, is! Flyonel will
> do what
> they want to do and all the grumbling in the world isn't going to
> change
> anything. We either buy it, or we don't. I buy all their nicely
> decorated box
> cars because they are pretty. The plain Jane stuff I don't. I run
> S-Helper
> cars because they are better made and more prototypical looking. I
> don't like
> Winter much because it's cold, but it ain't going away because I
> don't like
> it.....Smile y'all and get on with it...Steve
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16520 From: David Dewey Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: Running Flyer with a ZW
Bad Karma!
;-)
S
David
PS, none that I can think of right away, but someone on this list will know
of some!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16521 From: Alan Bataille Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: China
When you are talking about model trains made in China, are you referring
to Communist China or Taiwan?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16522 From: Tom Young Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Led's
Can anyone give me a briefing on using led's? I'd like to use them on my
layout and know nothing about how they can be powered. Are there some
that can be used with our AF transformers putting out 15 to 18 volts or
do you need a separate power supply?
I see them being used often in our hobby like on the S-Trax switch
controller's and on Carl Tuveson's great looking layout.
Carl, or someone, can ya give me a little advice?
Also, anyone know the the name of the temporary goop you can use to
keep figures in place. My MTH people keep falling over, they're always
laying down on the station platform, looks more like Penn Station on a
cold night.
Thanks, Tom Young
Group: S-Trains Message: 16523 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Opinion
CZ Writes "Men of S-GAUGE:
Every time a manufacturer announces some new toy in production, we get the
"I ain't gonna buy it nohow" contingent writing that the producer is doing
something unethical, immoral, greedy, or just plain anti-railroadin'.
Multiply by a factor of ten when it's Flyonel."

Can't agree with you anymore on this issue Chris!!! I'm one of the S-Gaugers
that is just now able to start putting some extra money into the hobby. I am
also one that doesn't have a PA set! So, Guess who will try to get one of
these sets? But, I also will be anxiously awaiting the new Consolidation from
SHS. And the new stuff still says American Flyer which will let a bunch of
people see they still make it.
It's kind of like a guy with a 1960's Corvette. The new one's have parts
from all over the world, new technologies and a bigger price tag. You may
hear things like, " they don't make them like that anymore," but in my
experiences, that's not always a bad thing!!!!
Take for example, the house I am rehabbing built in 1885, Built today with
today's technology would have it's advantages and disadvantages. Just like
our trains of today.
So my point? Heck, I don't know!! I guess just buy them and run them. Get
more people buying them and running them. Just don't let S-GAUGE go back to
the black hole days of the 70's where you couldn't find it anywhere.
We need more people out at the shows running layouts. Even 4X8 layouts can
get great attention versus a large club layout of HO and N scale.
Enough for now. Back to the layout.



THE TRAINNUT
CHRIS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16524 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: Running Flyer with a ZW
None with AC Gilbert. Don't suspect any with Lionel Flyer. American
Models advises against it with their electronics. SHS?

"Knight, Gene" wrote:
>
> Are there any problems running Flyer trains with a Lionel ZW?
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 16525 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: goop
Hi Tom,
Dept 56 makes a wax type goop, it's called sticky tack. Abiut 3.00 dollars a
package and lasts a long time. When you take the figure up, you can rub the
wax up with your finger. It won't stain anything either. You could probably
order this through their website at www.dept56.com or buy it at a craft store
under another name. Any Christmas store or Hallmark that carries Dept 56
should aslo carry it.

THE TRAINNUT
CHRIS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16526 From: Tom Young Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: goop
Perfect, that's what I'm looking for. Thanks Chris.
Tom

Hi Tom,
Dept 56 makes a wax type goop, it's called sticky tack. Abiut 3.00
dollars a package and lasts a long time. When you take the figure
up, you can rub the wax up with your finger. It won't stain anything
either. You could probably order this through their website at
www.dept56.com or buy it at a craft store under another name. Any
Christmas store or Hallmark that carries Dept 56 should aslo carry
it.

THE TRAINNUT
CHRIS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16527 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
In a message dated 1/13/02 10:43:28 AM, busyboy@... writes:

<< Me, I'm gonna buy all this crap. I can squeeze another PA set in
somewhere. >>

I won't.

Why?

1. I am sick of looking at PA sets with coffee grinder motors repainted ten
ways to Sunday that do not run as smoothly as my 50 year old 5108W. In clear
and friendly terms, I've suggested on multiple occasions to Dick Maddox and
Todd Wagner what I am primed to buy if they offer it. Until then (aside from
the occasional well-done society car), forget it! As for those who are just
entering the hobby, there are many M/OBs or LN/OBs LTI PA sets out there at
fire sale prices, which should indicate something to the discerning.

2. I REALLY like steam engines!!! -- This does include near scale,
prototypical, detailed steam engines with up-to-date sounds with four chuffs
and puffs to the revolution, command control, electro-couplers, cruise
control, die cast tenders, and all of the other nifty features that the Zero
gauge folk enjoy in unbelievable abundance. The current offerings in S gauge
do not measure up. Period.

3. And most importantly, there is still a fair amount of original New Haven
Gilbert that I would like to own -- some of it not too cheap. It's great
that some of the accesories are being redone. Regardless of national origin,
however, Flyonel train purchases are usually unnecessary and undesirable
diversions of capital until that day comes when they finally pony up the real
goods.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 16528 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: Led's
Tom here is a web site that has a lot of good info on LEDs.
http://www.theledlight.com/technical.html

If you do a www.google.com search I'm sure that you will find tons more of
info on LEDs. I will put some on my site also.

Here is also a link to Paul Yorks page on track powered LEDs

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/diagram/led2.htm

Carl



-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Young [mailto:tyoung5@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 1:17 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Led's


Can anyone give me a briefing on using led's? I'd like to use them on my
layout and know nothing about how they can be powered. Are there some
that can be used with our AF transformers putting out 15 to 18 volts or
do you need a separate power supply?
I see them being used often in our hobby like on the S-Trax switch
controller's and on Carl Tuveson's great looking layout.
Carl, or someone, can ya give me a little advice?
Also, anyone know the the name of the temporary goop you can use to
keep figures in place. My MTH people keep falling over, they're always
laying down on the station platform, looks more like Penn Station on a
cold night.
Thanks, Tom Young





S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16529 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
In answer to your thre paragraphs, I would say, 1) You're right, 2) You're
right, and 3) You're right.

But we need a large, well capitalized firm, making S trains, in our camp. I
am willing to gamble that with a good sellout and some prodding from all of
us in black and white, we may be able to get some of those 0 goodies in our
size. If it fails to do well, they will fall back on that same old buzz,
"S-gauge can't support product offerings..It's too small." That's where
they went when they started up the SD-60 (?) project and offered it in
lovely Conrail Blue. No pre-sales, and it was all our fault. They never
saw how they were building something almost no one wanted. "S-gauge can't
support new tooling."

But they are on the verge. I feel it. I think that they are ready to take
the plunge. They probably don't believe what they see happening with AM &
SHS. They either don't know the numbers or don't trust the sales figures
they've gleaned. And they don't have a good feel for the market. I think we
gotta help the blind man walk.

Chris Zizzo


----- Original Message -----
From: <RBubeck327@...>
To: <busyboy@...>; <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)


>
> In a message dated 1/13/02 10:43:28 AM, busyboy@... writes:
>
> << Me, I'm gonna buy all this crap. I can squeeze another PA set in
> somewhere. >>
>
> I won't.
>
> Why?
>
> 1. I am sick of looking at PA sets with coffee grinder motors repainted
ten
> ways to Sunday that do not run as smoothly as my 50 year old 5108W. In
clear
> and friendly terms, I've suggested on multiple occasions to Dick Maddox
and
> Todd Wagner what I am primed to buy if they offer it. Until then (aside
from
> the occasional well-done society car), forget it! As for those who are
just
> entering the hobby, there are many M/OBs or LN/OBs LTI PA sets out there
at
> fire sale prices, which should indicate something to the discerning.
>
> 2. I REALLY like steam engines!!! -- This does include near scale,
> prototypical, detailed steam engines with up-to-date sounds with four
chuffs
> and puffs to the revolution, command control, electro-couplers, cruise
> control, die cast tenders, and all of the other nifty features that the
Zero
> gauge folk enjoy in unbelievable abundance. The current offerings in S
gauge
> do not measure up. Period.
>
> 3. And most importantly, there is still a fair amount of original New
Haven
> Gilbert that I would like to own -- some of it not too cheap. It's great
> that some of the accesories are being redone. Regardless of national
origin,
> however, Flyonel train purchases are usually unnecessary and undesirable
> diversions of capital until that day comes when they finally pony up the
real
> goods.
>
> RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 16530 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Well would someone let me in on where these fire sale priced LTI sets
are? If any of you have something let me know. I live in the boonies
and the stuff I see selling on e-bay is not what I would call fire
sale. Maybe I am not discerning, but I am pretty pleased with the
operation of the LTI stuff I have. I notice that some of this runs
better than others. I have some that are very smooth.

> 1. I am sick of looking at PA sets with coffee grinder motors
repainted ten
> ways to Sunday that do not run as smoothly as my 50 year old
5108W. In clear
> and friendly terms, I've suggested on multiple occasions to Dick
Maddox and
> Todd Wagner what I am primed to buy if they offer it. Until then
(aside from
> the occasional well-done society car), forget it! As for those who
are just
> entering the hobby, there are many M/OBs or LN/OBs LTI PA sets out
there at
> fire sale prices, which should indicate something to the discerning.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16531 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: 474 chassis bushings
I have read on this list about people re-bushing the chassis on AF
diesels. I am doing a little tune up on my 474 and noticed that there
is a little excess axle slop that is probably loading the worm drive
and reducing efficiency. I pulled the wheels off and noticed that
there appears to already be bushings in my chassis. The exploded
parts view in my manual does not show bushings or a bushing part
number.

So the question is:

Did AF actually bush some chassis and my parts book is not complet?

Are their multiple suppliers of bushings and will I have to actually
pull mine and mic. them to get the dimensions or is there only one
source? (I would like to put the unit back in commission while
waiting on parts)

Did I just imagine the bushings?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16532 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Chris,
IF Lionel/Flyonel survives the next corporate sellout/buyout. Don't you
think that is where they are headed with the latest management change.
Production is now at its theoretical lowest cost, therefore raising the
probable return on investment. Maddox achieved that. Maximize the return on
the available resources. Perfect reason for some one else with no hobby
interest or experience to buy them.
Jim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16533 From: richgaj Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Chris Zizzo wrote:
The real objection to the new Flyer is that it is not new at all. It
is the same recycled product that we used to love but have had enough
of already.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, yes and no. Lionel's decorations on Flyer over the past years
has been pretty good for the most part. I love my Flyonel Sliver
Flash, Wabash, C&O and NKP sets, plus the EP-5's.

My biggest complaint about the current Flyer is how poor the stuff
runs. I know most folks like to blame the can motors, but I see the
problem as the whole power truck. The world's best motor can't
overcome off-center gears, bent shafts or axles, wobbly wheels and
sloppy tolerances. The sets I've listed above are the best running
of my Flyonel collection, but they don't come anywhere near the
running qualities of my S Helper and American Models stuff. The
current Flyer drive needs to be redesigned to be competitive with the
other guys, Period.

My second complaint is about the cost. Earlier, Don Thompson
outlined some of the costs involved in an S Helper box car. A Flyer
box car is nowhere near as complex in assembly or decoration as an S
Helper box car, yet retails out for 5 bucks more. (I know, I know.
Buy from a discounter for about 35 bucks. Let's leave the
discounters out of the equation for now.) Why do you think the
NASG's still sitting on Flyer Great Northern cabooses? My theory is
the (far superior) S Helper and American Models GN cabeese are out
there for less.

Now, I stopped buying Flyer several years ago primarily because of
the erratic mechanical quality and higher cost. But, I still believe
that there is still a place for in the market "Classic Flyer," if you
will. There is indeed a certain something about Flyer, but it's past
due time to come out with some totally new stuff. And not clones of
mediocre O-27 or Flyer trucks on O-27 stuff either.

Notice that Lionel has risen to the challenge of their O Gauge
competition. Even the some of the older stuff has received
mechanical and electronic upgrades. If Lionel would have continued
with tired "same old" F-3's and mis-proportioned SD's, they would
have not survived MTH's and K-Line's onslaught.

Now, Lionel's not gonna go under if they were to kill the Flyer line,
but if Flyer is to survive, it will have to change and be upgraded to
meet it's S Gauge competition, regardless of who were to manufacture
it. Just the "American Flyer" brand name alone means little to a
person that does not have a childhood history with Flyer.

It's not going to matter where Flyer is made if it operates poorly
and costs the consumer too much.

Rich G.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16534 From: Gregg Mummert Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: Running Flyer with a ZW
>Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 11:08:49 -0500
> From: "Knight, Gene" <knight@...>
>Subject: Running Flyer with a ZW
>
>Are there any problems running Flyer trains with a Lionel ZW?
>
>

I use one on my Christmas layout for the main reason that it starts at 0
volts and the new engines (LTI, SHS, AM) start smoother than with a Flyer
transformer that start at 7 volts. You need to watch the "top end" of a ZW
since it puts out 20 volts.

Gregg Mummert

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 16535 From: Gregg Mummert Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: goop
This is available at hobby shops, too.

There is also "fun tack" available at office supply and discount stores.

Gregg Mummert

>Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 13:49:37 EST
> From: Cbtrainnut1@...
>Subject: Re:goop
>
>Hi Tom,
> Dept 56 makes a wax type goop, it's called sticky tack. Abiut 3.00
>dollars a
>package and lasts a long time. When you take the figure up, you can rub the
>wax up with your finger. It won't stain anything either. You could probably
>order this through their website at www.dept56.com or buy it at a craft
>store
>under another name. Any Christmas store or Hallmark that carries Dept 56
>should aslo carry it.
>
>THE TRAINNUT
>CHRIS
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 11
> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 14:38:49 -0500
> From: Tom Young <tyoung5@...>
>Subject: goop
>
>Perfect, that's what I'm looking for. Thanks Chris.
> Tom
>
>Hi Tom,
>Dept 56 makes a wax type goop, it's called sticky tack. Abiut 3.00
>dollars a package and lasts a long time. When you take the figure
>up, you can rub the wax up with your finger. It won't stain anything
>either. You could probably order this through their website at
>www.dept56.com or buy it at a craft store under another name. Any
>Christmas store or Hallmark that carries Dept 56 should aslo carry
>it.
>
>THE TRAINNUT
>CHRIS
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 16536 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
All,
I STILL don't see why we have to have Flyonel in the picture at all.
American Models, S-Helper and myriad smaller concerns have brought the
S-Gauge portion of the hobby to this point in time, not Flyonel. WHY NOT
support the people who mortgaged their homes and everything else imaginable
to support us. Flyonel reuses a mould or die from 1946 and everyone is so
pleased and yet distraught at the same time. The detail is lacking, the
wheels barely turn and we go YIPPEE!! It goes with-out saying we get to pay
more for this too.
I'm do not understand the desire to see the big "O" guys involved, if you
recall, that is at least part of the reason we lost our "beloved" Flyer to
begin with.
General Motors, a company that does not understand its market either is
torpedoing the oldest car line in America, Oldsmobile. Us "Olds" diehards
will lament, we will not walk.
I firmly believe "S" Gauge wil survive and thrive without Flyonel. It
already has, I believe. My money is on American Models, S-Helper and and the
other folks who supported us, to get us here, with quality, detail, price and
service.
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16537 From: SSabino39@aol.com Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Well Said.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16538 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: Running Flyer with a ZW
Dear Gene,
I have been told that the early KW transformers could output as much as 24 volts
AC. Even my 19B I have measured 19.8 volts AC output. When we first had the SW-9
AC/DC reverse unit, Dallas Gutacker of Dallee Electronics was kind enough and alerted
us to the higher voltage transformers. We used 50 volt min. components in our reverse
units. So, it should not be a problem.
Don T.
PS Also, our Locomatic Sound units in the F-3 does not have a problem with Lionel or
AC Gilbert transformers.

Chuck Smith wrote:

> None with AC Gilbert. Don't suspect any with Lionel Flyer. American
> Models advises against it with their electronics. SHS?
>
> "Knight, Gene" wrote:
> >
> > Are there any problems running Flyer trains with a Lionel ZW?

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 16539 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Jim:
The guys who are currently our biggest suppliers are doing so part time.
They all have day jobs. There is no corporation with deep pockets behind
S-gauge. If Lionel commits to us, many others will follow. If they don't,
then where we are is where we are.

I thought I was clear in expressing that thought before. Most companies are
followers. Lionel is an industry leader. They start making substantial
S-gauge and lots of other companies will tool up too.

Now do you see why Flyonel should be in the picture?

Chris Zizzo

----- Original Message -----
From: <WJJIM@...>
To: <busyboy@...>; <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)


> All,
> I STILL don't see why we have to have Flyonel in the picture at all.
> American Models, S-Helper and myriad smaller concerns have brought the
> S-Gauge portion of the hobby to this point in time, not Flyonel. WHY NOT
> support the people who mortgaged their homes and everything else
imaginable
> to support us. Flyonel reuses a mould or die from 1946 and everyone is so
> pleased and yet distraught at the same time. The detail is lacking, the
> wheels barely turn and we go YIPPEE!! It goes with-out saying we get to
pay
> more for this too.
> I'm do not understand the desire to see the big "O" guys involved, if
you
> recall, that is at least part of the reason we lost our "beloved" Flyer to
> begin with.
> General Motors, a company that does not understand its market either is
> torpedoing the oldest car line in America, Oldsmobile. Us "Olds" diehards
> will lament, we will not walk.
> I firmly believe "S" Gauge wil survive and thrive without Flyonel. It
> already has, I believe. My money is on American Models, S-Helper and and
the
> other folks who supported us, to get us here, with quality, detail, price
and
> service.
> Jim Lyle
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16540 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Running Flyer with a ZW
ZW's put out a higher voltage. Period Flyer will just go faster. New Flyer
might handle it. American Models warns against overvoltage on locomotive
electronics. That may also apply to SHS. Of course, they'd be flying off
the track before you ever applied that much, so it's probably not a problem.

It's good to watch your volts!
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16541 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
In a message dated 1/13/02 6:34:32 PM, Negative_Pitch@... writes:

<< Well would someone let me in on where these fire sale priced LTI sets are?
If any of you have something let me know. I live in the boonies and the stuff
I see selling on e-bay is not what I would call fire sale. >>

Seriously, please keep an eye out at auctions and in listings in the TCA
National Headquarters News, among other places beyond the world of eBay.
Several sealed boxes of the WP sets went for under $400 during the recent
Kughn auction activities and I have observed these sets go for as low as $350
on other occasions. In the latest TCA Interchange Point there are three mint
49601 MP sets listed for $500.00, another with two extra cars for $595.00,
and a mint UP set for $595. Except for the UP, all of the other sets (new)
are less than original retail. A not dissimilar selection of LTI PA sets were
offered for sale in the previous Headquarters news. If you are not insistent
on mint, opened and mildly run sets go for significantly less. When he has
had them in the past few years, John Heck has been selling the versions of
the LTI NP, UP, and MP sets with all of the extra cars in the $750 range.
So, there are plenty to be had at prices significantly below original cost.
Sincerely hope this helps.

As for running, I acknowledge that the new sets (post Eries) do pull well,
but properly serviced original Gilbert diesels run more smoothly and quietly
with the transitional feel of the momentum of a real train. Although I have
and still do own and operate some Flyonel stuff, I invariably find myself
replacing them on the layout with originals to my great relief and greater
enjoyment. The new SHS F-3s I own are also a (much) better operating
experience than LTI PAs, IMHO.

Unfortunately, I have to also report that my Lionel RS-11 with Odyssey cruise
control, extremely quiet operation, command control, electro-couplers, two
can motors with fly wheels and traction tires, diesel smoke, superb graphics,
and Railsounds 4.0 at a street price of $294 eclipses what is available in S.
A two engine (4 motors) lash up using TMCC is duck soup to set up and
provides locomotion capable of pulling down walls. If something like this
appeared in S at this price, it would be the sensation of the decade, which
gets us back to my original complaint in this string of postings -- Lionel
has the technology on the self to easily do much better by us -- and they
should.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 16542 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/13/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Dear Chirs,
I think that Karen Bashista of AM still is a nurse full time and you know I work
at the medical school (and my partner Mike is a CPA). But, Ron B, my wife Robin and
both companies now have other full time employees. So no, not all of the key
personnel do this part time.
Best regards,
Don T.

Chris Zizzo wrote:

> Jim:
> The guys who are currently our biggest suppliers are doing so part time.
> They all have day jobs. There is no corporation with deep pockets behind
> S-gauge. If Lionel commits to us, many others will follow. If they don't,
> then where we are is where we are.
>
> I thought I was clear in expressing that thought before. Most companies are
> followers. Lionel is an industry leader. They start making substantial
> S-gauge and lots of other companies will tool up too.
>
> Now do you see why Flyonel should be in the picture?
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <WJJIM@...>
> To: <busyboy@...>; <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 10:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
>
> > All,
> > I STILL don't see why we have to have Flyonel in the picture at all.
> > American Models, S-Helper and myriad smaller concerns have brought the
> > S-Gauge portion of the hobby to this point in time, not Flyonel. WHY NOT
> > support the people who mortgaged their homes and everything else
> imaginable
> > to support us. Flyonel reuses a mould or die from 1946 and everyone is so
> > pleased and yet distraught at the same time. The detail is lacking, the
> > wheels barely turn and we go YIPPEE!! It goes with-out saying we get to
> pay
> > more for this too.
> > I'm do not understand the desire to see the big "O" guys involved, if
> you
> > recall, that is at least part of the reason we lost our "beloved" Flyer to
> > begin with.
> > General Motors, a company that does not understand its market either is
> > torpedoing the oldest car line in America, Oldsmobile. Us "Olds" diehards
> > will lament, we will not walk.
> > I firmly believe "S" Gauge wil survive and thrive without Flyonel. It
> > already has, I believe. My money is on American Models, S-Helper and and
> the
> > other folks who supported us, to get us here, with quality, detail, price
> and
> > service.
> > Jim Lyle
> >
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 16543 From: TWesthelle@aol.com Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Truscott Set Cowboy and Indian Figures
I recently acquired a Frontier Truscott Set. I had included a bag of approx.
20-30 small, appears sgauge size cowboys and Indians.
Never having seen the originals, I wondered if anyone out there either has or
has seen this set and can give me details to determine if these figurines are
not original.
My suspicions are that they are a replacement, they are very nice, but just
curious to determine what the original set appeared like.
Thanks again for the knowledge base here, great bunch of guys.
Tom Westhelle
Oviedo, FL
Group: S-Trains Message: 16544 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: MTH 787 Log Loader
Good morning. My log loader arrived on Friday. Here is the entry for it
from my database.

Car type | Acc
Manufacturer | Mike's Train House (MTH)
Car number | 30-9119 (787)
RR name | Log Loader
Greenburg 1992 Volume | -
Greenburg 1992 Page | -
Greenburg 1992 Var. | -
Value | $199.95
Date of Value | October 28, 2000
Source of Value | Price asked
Greenburg 1984 Page | -
Greenburg 1984 Var. | -
Year manufactured | 2001
Original price | $199.95
Date Purchased/Recv'd | Deposit of $75.00 given to Scenery Unlimited on
October 28, 2000
| Expected approximately September of 2001.
| Balance paid on March 24, 2001. I just decided
to.
| Arrived January 11, 2002.
Price paid | $199.95
Last Owner | Scenery Unlimited
Received New/Used | New
Condition | EX
Unique | -
Original Box | Yes
Instructions | Yes, on a sheet of shirt cardboard.
| Warranty card too.
Entry created date | October 30, 2000
Comments |

October 28, 2000. While at the 2000 Fall S-Fest, I placed a deposit on
Mike's Train House's Log Loader with Scenery Unlimited. This is a
reproduction of the AF 787, the quiet log loader. After this, I will own
originals or copies of all three of the American Flyer quiet accessories:
the Oil Drum Loader, the Sawmill, and the 787 Log Loader.
This will replace the log loader I purchased in 1989. That one is
basically parts and will be sold after the new one arrives.
While I was at the S-Fest I saw vintage 'Flyer 787s going for $250.00
to $350.00. I will be getting a NEW one for less money!

March 24, 2001. Today I decided to just pay this off. I wrote a check for
$132.70 and mailed it.
$199.99 + $7.95 S/H - $75.00 deposit = $132.70.

August 4, 2001. A while back (probably April) I received a notice from
Scenery Unlimited that it is paid in full and will be shipped as soon as it
is available. At the NASG convention in Scranton, PA, Mike of MTH was asked
about it. It is still scheduled to be produced.

December 18, 2001. I called Don today and was informed they are in Boston.
Don should be receiving it just before or after Christmas. I should have it
by mid January.
After hanging up I sent an e-mail to the s-trains list stating this.

January 13, 2002. It arrived on Friday, January 11, 2002. The printing on
the outside carton's side reads
MIKE'S TRAIN HOUSE, INC.
P.P. NO.2001-30-9119
MODEL: 787 LOG LOADER
MADE IN CHINA
C/NO 175 <- The 175 is in black magic marker. (Both sides.)

One side also has a sticker attached:
RailKing Accessories
No. 787 Log Loader
Item No. 30-9119
QTY PER CASE
1
There are also two bar codes on this sticker. The first is "6 58081 2854
7". The second is "1"
The printing on the end reads
ITEM NO.30-9119
QTY.: 1 PCS.
G.W.: 2.5 KGS.
N.W. 1.9 KGS.
MEAS.:37X25X33CM
4301 <- The number is on one end only and is rubber
stamped.

My daughters, Jessica (2) and Samantha (9) assisted open it. There is a
nice, inner display box which holds a large, clear, two piece clam shell.
Within the clam shell is the 787. There are two additional compartments
within the clamshell. One is for the pushbutton. The other is for the five
logs.
Under the clam shell is a sheet of shirt cardboard. This cardboard
has the instructions printed on it.
The pushbutton is pre-wired. It has a black/red wire pair to
connect to the transformer and a black wire pair to connect to the log
loader. Each of these pairs look like the cord to a two-wire appliance.
Only with 12 volt insulation on the silver, stranded, 18 gauge wires. The
pushbutton case is looks like an American Flyer button but the finish is
different. An AF button is smooth and glossy. This has a slight roughness
to it and is semi-gloss at best.
The five logs are five lengths of dowel with stain on the sides.
The ends are stain-free to give the look of bark and trunk.
We removed it from the packaging. Then I went and fetched a 22030
(4B) transformer. We attached it according to the instructions and away it
went! We dropped all five logs onto the dining room table. Then we rotated
it 90 degrees and did it again until I saw it run from all sides. Jessica
kept taking the roof off of the shed, which contains the motor and gears.
The motor looks like a DC motor and probably is; but with a bridge
rectifier within. Or the bridge rectifier is hidden within the pushbutton.
When I get it out again I will fire it up and see if there is AC or DC on
the motor terminals.
Samantha noticed the ladder away from the building and the walkway
to the building. She wanted to know if this is where the people walked to
get into the building. She wanted to open the door into the shed. The shed
has an open doorway. What she was seeing was the side of the gearbox within
the shed.
The original I have (a junker, I will add) has an induction motor.
This slow motor requires no gearing down, just the linkage needed. The MTH
version has a normal looking DC motor. This runs a worm onto a larger gear.
I need to investigate as it grinds on every revolution of this gear. After
that, it has the original style linkage.
It looks like a 787, it acts like 787. I will call it a 2002-787 in
honor of the year and this model's master.

Maintenance Log |


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16545 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: MTH 787 Log Loader
"Marty.Thorin" wrote:

> Samantha noticed the ladder away from the building and the walkway
> to the building. She wanted to know if this is where the people walked to
> get into the building. She wanted to open the door into the shed. The shed
> has an open doorway. What she was seeing was the side of the gearbox within
> the shed.

Funny, my 3 year old grandson was over on Saturday and I hooked up my new MTH 787
log loader, which I received from Port Lines last week, and one of the first things
he asked was if the man goes in the door of the house. I had to explain that it was
a pretend door and the man didn't go in there. Then he wanted to know "how does the
man go to the bathroom?". Guess Art Linkletter was right about kids saying the
darndest things. And, like most of the action accessories where he can push or turn
the button to operate, he had a great time and gave it more use in one day than I
would in a year.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO
Group: S-Trains Message: 16546 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Chris, you are a dreamer !!!! Not a realist !!!

On Sun, 13 Jan 2002 23:29:36 -0500 Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...>
writes:
> Jim:
> The guys who are currently our biggest suppliers are doing so part
> time.
> They all have day jobs. There is no corporation with deep pockets
> behind
> S-gauge. If Lionel commits to us, many others will follow. If they
> don't,
> then where we are is where we are.
>
> I thought I was clear in expressing that thought before. Most
> companies are
> followers. Lionel is an industry leader. They start making
> substantial
> S-gauge and lots of other companies will tool up too.
>
> Now do you see why Flyonel should be in the picture?
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <WJJIM@...>
> To: <busyboy@...>; <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 10:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002
> Chionel)
>
>
> > All,
> > I STILL don't see why we have to have Flyonel in the picture at
> all.
> > American Models, S-Helper and myriad smaller concerns have brought
> the
> > S-Gauge portion of the hobby to this point in time, not Flyonel.
> WHY NOT
> > support the people who mortgaged their homes and everything else
> imaginable
> > to support us. Flyonel reuses a mould or die from 1946 and
> everyone is so
> > pleased and yet distraught at the same time. The detail is
> lacking, the
> > wheels barely turn and we go YIPPEE!! It goes with-out saying we
> get to
> pay
> > more for this too.
> > I'm do not understand the desire to see the big "O" guys
> involved, if
> you
> > recall, that is at least part of the reason we lost our "beloved"
> Flyer to
> > begin with.
> > General Motors, a company that does not understand its market
> either is
> > torpedoing the oldest car line in America, Oldsmobile. Us "Olds"
> diehards
> > will lament, we will not walk.
> > I firmly believe "S" Gauge wil survive and thrive without
> Flyonel. It
> > already has, I believe. My money is on American Models, S-Helper
> and and
> the
> > other folks who supported us, to get us here, with quality,
> detail, price
> and
> > service.
> > Jim Lyle
> >
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16547 From: Horn, David Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: ZW with AF trains
I've done this before. Be careful of the the extra kick it provides. I
think top end is nearly 24 volts (not rated, but measured with VOM on
posts). It can be a thrill, create some spills, but also more juice than
necessary. Be especially careful with that much punch and modern motive
power with their electronics. I recommend an 18 volt rated (~19.5 volt
actual) ACG AF 30B as the highest output transformer to run with safely. If
you have a small layout, then the 15v B's work fine too. Once when I ran
with a Z on a very large (40'x45') layout my 312 SIT was hauling, belching
smoke, living well up to its name of American FLYER (what a sight), but then
it decided to suck in both its brushes and lathe away its commutators. Oh
well, back to the work shop. Guess even for me, there can be a point of too
much speed. Dave
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16548 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Howell S. Jobbins sez:
>Chris, you are a dreamer !!!! Not a realist !!!

I've been called worse! Many say that the S in S-gauge stood for
scratchbuilding because in the bad old days, you could have any train you
want, as long as you were prepared to build it yourself.

I've felt that recently the O in O-gauge stands for "O boy, another toy!"

Maybe S should be changed to "D" gauge. We all dream, of big steam, modern
freight, super diesels, and a big variety. When it all becomes reality, we
can become "R" gauge.

If we don't grow much bigger, very soon, we'll go back to the days of "S".

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16549 From: Tom Young Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Led's
Thanks to all for your advice on led's, and the names of the sticky
stuff I called goop.
Now on with my project.
Thanks again, Tom
Group: S-Trains Message: 16550 From: David Dewey Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
I think Chris is right in many respects. I do think that SHS and AM's
successes do have the "big boys" looking at S. MTH has been very savvy in
producing mostly stuff that has gotten expensive, or adapts well to the O
market. Big L has been copying MTH, and also producing products with
existing tooling. BUT, big L really doesn't understand the S market, which
is strange, because they are in the Toy Train market, which isn't that much
different from the S market. I suspect they are like Edison, who thought he
was the only one with a phonograph. Along comes Columbia with their version,
and pretty soon Edison is out of the picture (Sony made the same mistake
with Beta some decades later).
I thought the move to China was to reduce production costs, therefore
list prices, but the new AF prices look the same to me! Also so many of us
are getting burned by pre-order prices to find street prices much lower
later that we are NOT pre-ordering, even if we want the stuff (for me that's
the checkerboard tower--I really can't use another Alco streamliner, I have
too much originals, LTIs, and original projects to consider another one).
Gotta get to work (I have one and a half days of secure work this week),
these are early morning musings, so feel free to shoot them down!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16551 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: WHERE TO FIND AF AND KITS
Clear Day
LEAVING AROUND WED FOR A WEEK AND A HALF TO TAKE OUR NEW " SMALL, CARBON
BASED, METHANE PRODUCING, FEMALE CREATURE " ( IE 4 MONTH OLD GRANDAUGHTER WHO THE COURTS
HAVE GIVEN US TEMPORARY CUSTODY) TO SEE HER DISTANT RELATIVES IN CHARLESTON,
W. VA AND RICHMOND, VA AREAS....KNOW OF ANY GOOD PLACES TO LOCATE AF AND
MODEL AIRPLANE KITS ALONG THIS ROUTE...JAX TO CHS...TO RICH...TO JAX...BOB




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16552 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
I hate to admit it, but put me in this category......


>Also so many of us
>are getting burned by pre-order prices to find street prices much
>lower
>later that we are NOT pre-ordering, even if we want the stuff
Group: S-Trains Message: 16553 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Gabe the Lamplighter
I have an extra MTH Gabe still sealed in the shipping box. Does anyone
want to trade me for one of the Flyonel ones in NIB condition?

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO
Group: S-Trains Message: 16554 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: "S" and other Hobby Shops in Fort Worth/Arlington/Dallas Area?
Greetings,

Could anyone send me information on hobby shops in the
Dallas/Arlington/Fort Worth, Texas area? Preferrably that have some
American Flyer, but I do dabble in some other gauges. (The wife likes
"N".) We'll be down there for a few days at the end of January and hope
to have some "shopping" time.

Thanks!

Bill
________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16555 From: lawrence Jackman Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: [FC] sprues and runners
Do you want me to throw a monkey wrench in to it????? All that is said
on that web page is true. BUT!!!!!!!!
The runner very seldom conects to the part. It is connected by a gate.
The runner is also the sprue on molds that are injected on the parting
line. It is like, an apple is a fruit but not all fruits are apples. Fun
is it not.
Thank you
Larry Jackman


Ted Larson wrote:
>
> I found some webpages that will help illustrate the v
Group: S-Trains Message: 16556 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: New Flyonel
Last time I tried to say this, Chris Zizzo completely misunderstood what I
said and flamed me. But I will try again.

I think the new accessories are sad , wretched, pathetic.

Why? Because they could be so much more and so much better than they are!

Wouldn't it be nice if the new sawmill had some kind of cartridge loading
system so it could hold more than 10 planks at a time? And maybe a few
sparks flashing from the blade as the log passes? Wouldn't it be nice if
the arm didn't bob up and down when the string tightened? Wouldn't it be
nice if a man DID walk in and out of the log loader house? And so forth
and so on. Any of these accessories could have been improved in limitless
imaginative ways. And what about a rotary coal dumper? What about a
rotary coal loader, that can actually load cars full of coal in a
reasonable time? What about some accessories that actually work ALL the
time???

Instead, we are offered cheap reproductions, that capture the appearance of
the originals, do have some play value I admit, but do not have mechanisms
that will last the way the originals have done.

I agree with Bob Bubeck. We have to find a way to get better product out
of LTI, and do so without driving them out of the S market.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 16557 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Flyonel correction
Sorry guys the language in my last posting was way too strong. In place of

"...sad , wretched, pathetic", let's just say

"very disappointing".
Group: S-Trains Message: 16558 From: Scott Brown Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Flyer Smoke Fluid
Has anyone purchased the ORIGINAL FORMULA American Flyer Smoke Fluid sold by RFGCO ? I see it is for auction on ebay ( http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1687660522 ) and I'm sure you can just buy it from RFGCO direct. They claim it's "not an imitation or smell alike". Anyone know if it really is the original ?

Scott Brown


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16559 From: John L. Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer Smoke Fluid
It cant be that hard to make - anybody know how its done? Someone suggested to me its only mineral oil.

Scott Brown wrote:

> Has anyone purchased the ORIGINAL FORMULA American Flyer Smoke Fluid sold by RFGCO ? I see it is for auction on ebay ( http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1687660522 ) and I'm sure you can just buy it from RFGCO direct. They claim it's "not an imitation or smell alike". Anyone know if it really is the original ?
>
> Scott Brown
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16560 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer Smoke Fluid
The stuff Doug Peck sells smells pretty good to me.


--- In S-Trains@y..., "John L." <larry.asp@s...> wrote:
> It cant be that hard to make - anybody know how its done? Someone
suggested to me its only mineral oil.
>
> Scott Brown wrote:
>
> > Has anyone purchased the ORIGINAL FORMULA American Flyer Smoke
Fluid sold by RFGCO ? I see it is for auction on ebay (
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1687660522 )
and I'm sure you can just buy it from RFGCO direct. They claim
it's "not an imitation or smell alike". Anyone know if it really is
the original ?
> >
> > Scott Brown
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-
unsubscribe@Y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16561 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: 914 coil
The xa11465 Coil asm in my 914 log dump car is shorted. I looked on
Doug Peck's site and didn't find one. I went to SSS trains and they
list it for $25.00....anyway this gave me the bright idea that I
should re-wind it myself.

Has anyone done this? I was hopin to get an estimate of the number of
windings (without counting myself) or pehaps any things I should look
out for if I try.

There is not much to lose at this point the resistance shows a direct
short. My 919 coal dump car checks out at 1 ohm.

Any suggestions, etc.

Mark
Group: S-Trains Message: 16562 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Vulcanized PULLMOR
I just ordered another pair of the pullmor tires that Portlines has.
I put some of these on my 303 Atlantic and I may have spoiled myself
for any other tire.

These things are dead nuts on run-out. I have yet to see an original
AF pullmor that is really true. I have only checked about 10 or so,
but they all have enough run-out to make a visible wobble. (some have
about 20thou.)

The rubber on the vulcanized pullmor tires is a little softer than
the original and is really grippy (is that a word) Anyway my 303
really runs smooth now and I may have to do every steamer I have.

I used to really be sold on the non-pullmor tires because they are
generally more true, but now I can have traction and trueness at the
same time.

Mark
Group: S-Trains Message: 16563 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: 914 coil
According to Robert Hannon's "A.C.Gilbert's Postwar Reference Manual"
it is:

245 turns
25 gauge
1.3-1.4 ohms.

Wind ON baby,

Carl

-----Original Message-----
From: robbe_wan [mailto:Negative_Pitch@...]
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 10:10 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] 914 coil


The xa11465 Coil asm in my 914 log dump car is shorted. I looked on
Doug Peck's site and didn't find one. I went to SSS trains and they
list it for $25.00....anyway this gave me the bright idea that I
should re-wind it myself.

Has anyone done this? I was hopin to get an estimate of the number of
windings (without counting myself) or pehaps any things I should look
out for if I try.

There is not much to lose at this point the resistance shows a direct
short. My 919 coal dump car checks out at 1 ohm.

Any suggestions, etc.

Mark


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Group: S-Trains Message: 16564 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: 914 coil
Thanks, Carl that is just what I needed....

So do you have a good source for 25 gauge shellacked wire?

I suppose Radio Shack might have it....but I haven't seen it on the
shelf.

--- In S-Trains@y..., Carl Tuveson <carl@w...> wrote:
> According to Robert Hannon's "A.C.Gilbert's Postwar Reference
Manual"
> it is:
>
> 245 turns
> 25 gauge
> 1.3-1.4 ohms.
>
> Wind ON baby,
>
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: robbe_wan [mailto:Negative_Pitch@h...]
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 10:10 PM
> To: S-Trains@y...
> Subject: [S-Trains] 914 coil
>
>
> The xa11465 Coil asm in my 914 log dump car is shorted. I looked on
> Doug Peck's site and didn't find one. I went to SSS trains and they
> list it for $25.00....anyway this gave me the bright idea that I
> should re-wind it myself.
>
> Has anyone done this? I was hopin to get an estimate of the number
of
> windings (without counting myself) or pehaps any things I should
look
> out for if I try.
>
> There is not much to lose at this point the resistance shows a
direct
> short. My 919 coal dump car checks out at 1 ohm.
>
> Any suggestions, etc.
>
> Mark
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16565 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: 914 coil
Radio Shack lists 26 gauge which in this application would probably work.
It would be a few milliohms higher in resistance.

Carl

-----Original Message-----
From: robbe_wan [mailto:Negative_Pitch@...]
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 10:24 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: 914 coil


Thanks, Carl that is just what I needed....

So do you have a good source for 25 gauge shellacked wire?

I suppose Radio Shack might have it....but I haven't seen it on the
shelf.

--- In S-Trains@y..., Carl Tuveson <carl@w...> wrote:
> According to Robert Hannon's "A.C.Gilbert's Postwar Reference
Manual"
> it is:
>
> 245 turns
> 25 gauge
> 1.3-1.4 ohms.
>
> Wind ON baby,
>
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: robbe_wan [mailto:Negative_Pitch@h...]
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 10:10 PM
> To: S-Trains@y...
> Subject: [S-Trains] 914 coil
>
>
> The xa11465 Coil asm in my 914 log dump car is shorted. I looked on
> Doug Peck's site and didn't find one. I went to SSS trains and they
> list it for $25.00....anyway this gave me the bright idea that I
> should re-wind it myself.
>
> Has anyone done this? I was hopin to get an estimate of the number
of
> windings (without counting myself) or pehaps any things I should
look
> out for if I try.
>
> There is not much to lose at this point the resistance shows a
direct
> short. My 919 coal dump car checks out at 1 ohm.
>
> Any suggestions, etc.
>
> Mark
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


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All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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Group: S-Trains Message: 16566 From: Lance McCold Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Speeding up MTH coal loader
I tried John Gasal's technique with good success. It speeds up the bucket
movement as reported. It is also not difficult to do. The biggest chore was
finding the tubing. The first store I went to was out of one size of
tubing. The tubing is very common vinyl tubing--they just happened to be
out. The two 1-foot pieces of tubing cost less than 30 cents including
sales tax. Taking the loader apart and putting it back together was the
next biggest chore, but it is not difficult if you are patient. (It is
apparent why the device costs what it does when you see all the pieces.)

If you have hesitated to buy an MTH loader or to speed it up, don't
hesitate any more. Thanks to John Gasal for sharing his idea.

By the way, if you want to increase the appeal of the loader with the women
folks and kids, use mini M&Ms instead of coal. The mini M&Ms work great!

Lance McCold

*************
From: NotColdEnough@h...
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2001 10:21 am
Subject: Speed up MTH coal loader


Back in October, a member submitted a message on how to
replace the motor pulley to speed up the MTH coal loader. I took
mine apart and found I could not easily remove the old pulley without
cutting it off with a dremel tool.

After some thought, I left the old pulley on, and constructed a new
pulley over it. How - I built a new pulley made of flexible plastic
tubing that was slid over the existing brass pulley. See
photo "MTHcoalspeedup.jpg" in the files section.

The pulley was made of two diameters of clear flexible plastic tubing
that most hardware stores carry. The sizes I used were:

3/16 ID x 5/16 OD
5/16 ID x 7/16 OD

The smaller size is cut to the length of the brass pulley and becomes
the new driving surface for the belt. It did not need to be glued on
as it had a friction fit over the existing pulley.

The larger size was used to make flanges to create the sides of the
pulley. I cut two peices about the thickness of a penny and used
wathers goo to glue it on each end of the smaller tubing.

The new pulley has reduced the lift time from 20 seconds to about 10
seconds. And I can always slip off the new pulley if I want to
restore the loader back to original condition.

John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 16567 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: 914 coil
Thanks, I was looking at that on their web site too.

By the way.

This 914 is another one of those e-bay stories.

It is auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1686238496

I sent the seller an e-mail telling him the coil was burned out and
got this response.....


Mark
I know nothing about AF , I bought a collection from some older
folks, so I am selling it, as far as the coil, well sorry but I had
no idea on how it work or what, I never said it worked and I believe
that you never ask that, I try to be honest on every item, all you
have to do is check my feedback and you will see that, I really don't
want you to return it, but I really don't want to dish out $25, but I
will split the difference with you $12.50, if you were to return it I
would refund your money minus Ebays fees which would be app. $3 & $6
s&h and you would have to pay to ship it here. Other than this coil
the car is super cond. So can I send you a check for $13 ?
Once again sorry
Greg

As they say....Caveat Emptor

Mark
Group: S-Trains Message: 16568 From: Steve Blancard Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: 914 coil
I have a considerable stash of magnet wire of various size - except it seems 25
gauge. I have plenty of 24 gauge if you want to try some of that. I'll need to know
how many feet you need (one wrap around your coil x 245).

Steve Blancard



robbe_wan wrote:

> Thanks, Carl that is just what I needed....
>
> So do you have a good source for 25 gauge shellacked wire?
>
> I suppose Radio Shack might have it....but I haven't seen it on the
> shelf.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16569 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: 914 coil
The average diameter of the coil is approximately .6 inches.

.6 * 3.1416 * 245 / 12 = 38.48 Feet.

So what would you charge for 40 feet of wire?

Man this adds up in a hurry!




--- In S-Trains@y..., Steve Blancard <splitdorf@1...> wrote:
> I have a considerable stash of magnet wire of various size - except
it seems 25
> gauge. I have plenty of 24 gauge if you want to try some of that.
I'll need to know
> how many feet you need (one wrap around your coil x 245).
>
> Steve Blancard
>
>
>
> robbe_wan wrote:
>
> > Thanks, Carl that is just what I needed....
> >
> > So do you have a good source for 25 gauge shellacked wire?
> >
> > I suppose Radio Shack might have it....but I haven't seen it on
the
> > shelf.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16570 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: MAGNET WIRE
Hi Guys try www.sciplus.com there latest cat shows mag wire for $2.00
per 100 ft for 20 - 24 ga. Their order phone is 847 982-0870 Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16571 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer Smoke Fluid
Larry,
I use unscented Lamp Oil from your hardware store. And dispense it
through an old Lionel Smoke Fluid bottle. This is all plastic and has a
snap up pouring spout. Bottle ref. 6-2909.
Don't use eye dropper bottle with a rubber squeeze top, as the oil will
dissolve the rubber.Smoke units with direct wires to the two power leads
at the tender will double the smoke output. Hope this helps.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16572 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: 914 coil
Mark: The 914 action car solenoid does not have to be too precisely
copied. It is not like an armature, which has to be balanced with a field
and other considerations. When you push the button, it is the only thing
on/in its little circuit. As long as you end up with approximately the
same resistance in a winding that will fit in that restricted space, you
should be ok.

I would just hop over to Radio Shack and pick up their #26 magnet wire,
although you could also use the 24 gauge Steve offered. According to
Professor Hannon, the resistance of a healthy 914 coil is 1.3 to 1.4 ohms.
Here is the resistance per foot of the three wire gauges, to help you in
your calculations:

24 gauge: 38.96 feet per ohm
25 gauge: 30.90 feet per ohm
26 gauge: 24.50 feet per ohm.

or to put it another way:

24 gauge: 25.67 ohms per 1000 ft
25 gauge: 32.37 ohms per 1000 ft
26 gauge: 40.81 ohms per 1000 ft.

Now this rewinding does not have to be pretty to work. It will not be
spinning around on an armature. So as long as you get the requisite amount
of wire wound and tucked into the requisite amount of space with no nicks
cuts scrapes or breaks, it ought to be ok.

You have to start off neatly and try to get neat layers of windings, but
that will probably break down after a few layers.

You can push errant windings into place with soft wood implements such as
popsickle sticks, orangewood cuticle sticks,etc. My favorite is the little
wooden thing they give you with the little cups of vanilla and chocolate
ice cream.

When you get it finished, tested, and working, you can put a little 5
minute epoxy on part of the outside of the windings to keep them in place.

Don't forget that this is enamel coated wire, and to make a connection to
it you must first scrape off the insulation with an xacto knife , emery
board, or whatever.

A 914 solenoid makes an excellent first rewinding project. You will learn
as you go. Good luck!

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 16573 From: jahoozdumm Date: 1/14/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Leave it to Chris Zizzo to start up a lively discussion! :^)
Guess I'll have to jump in...
BTW, this isn't intended to be a flame on Chris. (It's more of
a "vent" on Lionel.)

Chris Zizzo wrote:

>When Lionel produced no Flyer for a couple of years,...<snip>...The
>realists said "Forget Flyer. Lionel doesn't see an economic
>advantage in making it." But lo and behold, Lionel put out a batch
>of stuff in 2001 and a bigger batch in 2002. If it sells, they just
>might make that steam engine yet.

That is exactly what Lionel wants us to think. They bank on that
false hope to sell more of the same old thing. That's the ruse. I,
for one, refuse to play their game.

>I'm impressed that somehow we got through to these guys.

We haven't. They're still using the same bait.

>I'm amazed they are taking such a flyer on Flyer.

They made a few accessories that were sure to appeal to Zero gaugers,
and a few token repaints to keep up the "Maybe someday!" ruse. No big
deal.

>These guys are a little out of touch with the market.

These guys are clueless.

>Haven't they seen and handled the AM Budd cars? And then, more of
>those all plastic freight cars; who needs 'em?

Like I said, they're clueless.

>But that's what they make.

That's what they CHOOSE to make.

>Here's your choice. If you buy it, if we buy it, we encourage Lionel
>to make more.

No, all we do is encourage Lionel that we are still suckers, and will
buy whatever they make.

>They have money and resources and if they find they can sell us
>product, they can make us anything.

If we buy whatever they make, they will find that they don't NEED to
make us anything new.

>Look at what they spend on 0 gauge tooling.

But, you see, they HAD to do major retooling in O gauge. Not because
everybody was buying whatever they made already, but because MTH, K-
Line, and others were cleaning their O gauge clock. It was sheer
survival that demanded a major effort. O gaugers don't seem to be so
ready to bite on the "Just buy this, and we might make what you
REALLY want!" lure.

>For every one of you who has moaned and complained about the
>dearth of new Flyer production, here is your chance to re-invest in
>this company and possibly in a further re-birth of the gauge.

The gauge is doing better than it has for a long time, thanks to AM
and SHS (among others.) I prefer to invest in those companies, not in
one that insults my intelligence.

>If you believe that Flyer is done, and you just don't care for what
>Lionel is selling, don't buy it.

Um...okay. Wait, that's what I'm already doing...

>But know this. If this stuff Lionel just made does not sell out,
>there will be no more. No steamer, no nuthin'.

There never will be any steamer anyway. There will, however, be
plenty of "nuthin'".

>It's over, so no more wailing, either.

AF is over, not S gauge, and who's wailing? Only Lionel, over us
apathetic S guys. (Lionel cares, y'know.)

>Failure of this line will be further proof to all parties that the S
>community is a small potatoes vestige of a dead gauge.

Not at all. The growth of SHS and AM will be LEGITIMATE proof that S
is here IN SPITE of Lionel's mishandling of AF. That will show "all
parties" that S is a PRODUCT driven market that doesn't depend on the
AF heritage to make the product sell. That will make the S gauge
market more attractive, not less. At least it will to everyone but
Lionel.

>Me, I'm gonna buy all this crap.

Luuuuuke... don't give in to the dark side...

>I can squeeze another PA set in somewhere. I can always use a few
>more freight cars.

And the good guys (SHS, AM, etc.) can put your investment to better
use.

>S-gauge really can use a big company like Lionel building trains for
>us.

S gauge needs companies with a straightforward approach, who care
about more than making some old S gauge tooling pay its way while
they funnel their real effort into surviving in the O gauge market.

>New tooling will change everything.

But they refuse to do that! :^)

>Little businesses look to the big guys as indicators. They follow
>not lead.

Right now, the big guys in S are AM and SHS. They may be small
compared to Lionel's overall operation, but they stomp all over
Lionel in S. And by the way, for "little businesses", AM and SHS are
doing a valiant job of leading.

>Competition. It's good for the industry, good for the gauge and good
>for us. And it all starts with a little support, right now.

TRUE competition is not based in a "Just-buy-this-crap-now-and-we-
might-make-something-decent-later" ruse. A company must compete with
what it makes NOW.

>I think Lionel has reached a seminal moment.

Don't bet the farm on it. They never will reach a seminal moment if
people keep buying "crap" from them.

We must show Lionel that the S gauge market is not populated by
suckers. We must show them that S gauge does not need them, that in
fact, the reverse is true. Only then will they reach that "seminal
moment" and face the truth.

Now, if y'all will 'scuse me, I must write a check for an SD60...


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16574 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: American-Orient Express (was Re: 2002 Chionel)
Chuck,
Right on!!
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16575 From: crustyfour Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: 914 coil / magnet wire
Tom's post with the magneto wire calculations are right on as are his
comments on rewinding coils. I am no expert but as another hobby I
rebuild old motorcycle generators from the 1920s and have made many
field coils. The modern magnet wire is far superior to that used in
the '50s. Coils made from new wire should last a lifetime.

I looked at the magnet wire on http://www.sciplus.com/. They have
some good deals for sure. But be aware there are many types of
magneto wire with different coatings designed for various uses. Most
of them will work for simple coils but some may have much thicker
coatings (designed to carry very high voltage). These may not allow
the same number of turns of wire in the same amount of space

I'm a AF newbie for sure, but I'll be glad to help out anyone who
needs some magnet wire for one of these rewind projects, if I have the
right size.

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 16576 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer Smoke Fluid
This is somewhat of a blatant plug, but I receive nothing for this. I somewhat helped out someone with some confirmation analysis of original Gilbert smoke fluid that he is now producing. This is very good and it smokes a lot and smells like the original. Although he lists it on ebay (competing with RFGs), you can obtain it direct
from:

Michael Strickland
6834 Quinton Lane
Tujunga, CA 91042

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


Scott Brown wrote:

> Has anyone purchased the ORIGINAL FORMULA American Flyer Smoke Fluid sold by RFGCO ? I see it is for auction on ebay ( http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1687660522 ) and I'm sure you can just buy it from RFGCO direct. They claim it's "not an imitation or smell alike". Anyone know if it really is the original ?
>
> Scott Brown
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16577 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: New Flyonel
Hi,

There are a few things (kitbashing stuff) one could do to a repro accessory, such as the sawmill:
a.. Repaint and weather it
b.. Replace the plastic sawdust pile with real sawdust, bound up with mastic
c.. Adjust the blade or log so they are closer
d.. Illuminate the interior and/or exterior with low-wattage bulbs or the 'grain of wheat' bulbs
e.. Add sounds
f.. Scenic it into the layout with lumber, boards, people, vehicles, shrubs all around it
g.. Add adjacent functioning structures of your own design
These are just some things even I can think of. I'm sure someone with a little imagination could devise more - maybe even adding additional animation. Look what that gentleman who operated the Branford and Western on the #2 video did with Erector Set parts. While it may be controversial to doctor-up original Flyer accessories, I believe repros are fair game, and could get the creative juices flowing on a whole series of projects (just what we need).

Thanks,
Tim


----- Original Message -----
From: <jarcho@...>
To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 7:04 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] New Flyonel


> Last time I tried to say this, Chris Zizzo completely misunderstood what I
> said and flamed me. But I will try again.
>
> I think the new accessories are sad , wretched, pathetic.
>
> Why? Because they could be so much more and so much better than they are!
>
> Wouldn't it be nice if the new sawmill had some kind of cartridge loading
> system so it could hold more than 10 planks at a time? And maybe a few
> sparks flashing from the blade as the log passes? Wouldn't it be nice if
> the arm didn't bob up and down when the string tightened? Wouldn't it be
> nice if a man DID walk in and out of the log loader house? And so forth
> and so on. Any of these accessories could have been improved in limitless
> imaginative ways. And what about a rotary coal dumper? What about a
> rotary coal loader, that can actually load cars full of coal in a
> reasonable time? What about some accessories that actually work ALL the
> time???
>
> Instead, we are offered cheap reproductions, that capture the appearance of
> the originals, do have some play value I admit, but do not have mechanisms
> that will last the way the originals have done.
>
> I agree with Bob Bubeck. We have to find a way to get better product out
> of LTI, and do so without driving them out of the S market.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16578 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer Smoke Fluid
I have used the RFG "original formula" smoke fluid and
I am pleased with it. It smokes pretty well and it
smells like the orginal. Michael
--- Scott Brown <sbrown56@...> wrote:
> Has anyone purchased the ORIGINAL FORMULA American
> Flyer Smoke Fluid sold by RFGCO ? I see it is for
> auction on ebay (
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1687660522
> ) and I'm sure you can just buy it from RFGCO
> direct. They claim it's "not an imitation or smell
> alike". Anyone know if it really is the original ?
>
> Scott Brown
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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Group: S-Trains Message: 16579 From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Smoke Fluid Formula
Hi All

I sent this message to the list last year. The formula is very simple
and should be cheap to make. Compared to going price for a small bottle.
Mike anormal1@... made a few batches and sent it to some of us to
test. Mike may want to comment on his experiences with making smoke
fluid.

AL

Sent 1/24/01

In S Gagian Jan/Feb 00 ( I think ) , Bob Tufts's " Did you know " part
of his American Flyer Collector's Column was the formula for American
Flyer Smoke Fuild . 1 Part Cedarwood Oil ( Oil from the wood of
Juniperus Virginiana ) and 16 parts Shell Dispersol ( Kerosene Code 8233
).

His email is pufftoots@... .

I went on the internet and found this site and they sell Cedar Wood Oil.


8 oz can = $15 , 32 oz can = $35 , Shipping Included

Giles & Kendall 3470 Maysville Road Huntsville AL 35811

Attn Todd Moss Product Manager

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16580 From: crustyfour Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Hiawatha conversion
I have always admired the streamlined Hiawathas used by the Milwaukee
Road in the 1930s. Thanks to Paul Yorke's site I found information
on Mel Leilson's Hiawatha conversions:

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/info/mel.htm

Has anyone seen these first hand?
How do they look/run?
Are there matching passenger cars available anywhere?


Thanks,
Steve
Group: S-Trains Message: 16581 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: SMOKE FLUID
The org formula of the 16 to one is for the first smoke fluid Gilbert put
out. I contains kerosene You WILL NOT LIKE IT I have now a product that I
have had great reviews on. Contact me off list It is very reason priced
compared to the others.... Mike S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16582 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: ONE OTHER THING/ Smoke fluid/ BLATANT AD
Just one other thing about my Fluid.. I used to send out samples.. But
that turned out to be very expensive.. That is part of the reason plus I
know that it will be liked So if you order a bottle for $.00 for 2oz has a
cap but comes with an eyedropper. My thing is if you DO NOT LIKE IT for ANY
REASON Contact me and your $$ will be refunded... No one else will do this
you get the whole amt back inc postage. Thank You .... Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16583 From: Linda & Ted Weiler Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Modelng Farm Areas
Does anyone have any helpful hints on modeling farm areas?

Thanks in advance

Ted
Group: S-Trains Message: 16584 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: (no subject)
I also use Mike Strickland's smoke fluid.The #4 really smokes well,and
smells like original.I have had good comments on performance from many of my
friends that visited at Christmas.He can also be contacted at
anormal1@... easy to deal with.Ussually has pretty reasonable Buy
it Now prices on the trains he sells on ebay also.


Keith


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 16585 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: BLATANT AD CORRECTION
SORRY for the error in last post the 2oz bottle is $8.00 not $.00 As a
guide to the reviews I had to order another gross of bottles & droppers .....
Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16586 From: David Dewey Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: New Flyonel
Hi all,
Hmm, Tim has some interesting ideas. However "e.. Add sounds " um, gee
the original makes a real "sawmill" kind of sound when it runs! When I first
ran it, I remember being a bit upset with the loud noise, then decided it
was correct for a sawmill (at the time there were several real ones
operating near me, so I knew how noisy they really are).
I was daydreaming the other day about my future "real" layout (as
opposed to my "on the floor" one now) and was wondering if you could adapt
the sawmill to take lumber from underneath. If so, you could make a
"cartridge" that could contain a LOT of lumber and only need refilling once
in a while.
Now how to do the barrel loader??? Hmm, something like the bowling ball
delivery system???
At least all the log loaders lend themselves to auto refilling.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16587 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: MODELING FARMS
What ever you do on your farms do not forget the FOR SALE signs on the farm
and equip.... Mike S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16588 From: John McCarthy Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: new guy with track question.
Hello to all,

I have an important question perhaps someone has
an answer.

I want to run Flyer, Lionel Flyer, SHS, and American
models engines and rolling stock (all high rail) and use the
track and remote switches that will work with all the above
with the i.e. fewest derailments etc. I see there are several manufacturers but which stuff seems to work best
considering track, switches and the above type of
equipment?

Any opinions? Your input is appreciated.

john



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16589 From: Hannon Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: 914 Magnet Wire and Academic Titles
Tom, Carl & Mark:


At $2 per 100 ft, I think I will quit writing manuals
and become a wire reseller! I know I've got
some extra spools around here somewhere!

Professor ... professor ... hmmmm ... got a nice
ring to it. Tom, if I send you $2.50, can you
run off a virtual diploma for me? The degree
I am seeking is in Toy Train Technology. Please
let me know if a PhD is more expensive than
a BS. If there's no appreciable difference,
I'll definitely go with the PhD.

Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 16590 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: 914 Magnet Wire and Academic Titles
But BOB wouldn't BS really fit better Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16591 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: academic titles
Hey Bob: how does MMFE sound? That stands for Master of Microferroequinology.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 16592 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: new old accessories
There's another aspect to this that hasn't been mentioned yet. Animation
and action accessories are one of the potentially biggest attractions of S
relative to HO and N. You can do a lot more of that stuff within our
larger size.

But instead of cutting edge stuff we get globaleconomied remakes of 50's stuff.

Very disappointing.

But hey this is S gauge, and we can roll our own.

To name just one example, there has got to be a way to take the
loading/unloading mechanism out of a junker VCR and make an action
accessory of some kind out of it!

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 16593 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: academic titles
I thought PhD only meant piled higher and deeper.


jarcho@... wrote:

> Hey Bob: how does MMFE sound? That stands for Master of Microferroequinology.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16594 From: Hannon Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: 914 Magnet Wire and Academic Titles
Carl/Mike:

I can see that you're not taking me seriously here ... so ...ok ...


Anormal1@... wrote:

< But BOB wouldn't BS really fit better Mike S.

Already got one of those, and look where it got me. Writing
books on toy trains! No, this time I'm going all the way ...
reaching for the proverbial brass (or is it nickel plated) ring!
If Tom can run off a reasonable facsimile, I'm home free. Ah ...
the fame! The Recognition! The RESPECT! I'll hang it right
next to the Letter of Commendation I got, signed by A.C. Gilbert
himself, for my design of the #355 Baldwin power truck!


Carl Tuveson wrote:

< PhD?

<Isn't that the sound a coil makes when it burns up?

<Carl

No. That's the sound of 3 logs ripping through your
talking station when you rewind the #914 coil with
50 turns of #24 wire and apply a full 18V DC to the
pickup.

Tom, you better hurry up with diploma.

Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 16595 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: Modelng Farm Areas
Hi,

While visiting the National Toy Train Museum in Strasburg recently, I noticed they used the exposed inside of a piece of cardboard to create the furrows of a garden or farm. Just peel off a layer of cardboard to expose the corrugated inner layer - instant furrows.

I have used sawdust sifted through a screen for that dormant long grass look. I also have used tan bark sifted through a screen for dirt (not too far of a stretch).

Hope this gets the right part of the brain working.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Linda & Ted Weiler" <tjweiler@...>
To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 1:11 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Modelng Farm Areas


> Does anyone have any helpful hints on modeling farm areas?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Ted
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16596 From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: academic titles
Jarcho, you're still living under the Hoover administration. Synthetic
Latin is out. The degree that guarantees job security these days is
DGGTS.
That's a doctorate in guided-ground-transportation systemology.
Please specify whether right- or left-hand curves.
Joe Pereira

email: sigma@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 16597 From: Tom Young Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: LED's follow up
Thanks for getting back to me. Actually I already tried the 100 ohm and
it worked fine, at least on the two different led's I'm experimenting
with. But I'll pick up the 1000's tonight anyway. Also found that
Radioshack sells some with a built in resistor, and it worked fine all
the way up to 19 volts.
Thank you for your help, Tom

Boss31@... wrote:

> Can anyone give me a briefing on using led's? I'd like to use them on
> my
> layout and know nothing about how they can be powered. Are there some
> that can be used with our AF transformers putting out 15 to 18 volts
> or
> do you need a separate power supply?
>
> Tom, I mistyped on the note below. You need a 1000 ohm resister, not
> 100
> Sorry.....Steve
>
> Tom, they work fine on AC transformers at 15-18v. You just have to put
> a resister of 100 ohms on one of the leads to cut the voltage down. We
> use jilllions of them on our layout and even use them to replace the
> bulb/headlights in Locos. Boy they really light up the track.
>
> Regards....Steve & Sam


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16598 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: new old accessories
I just received my L 752A repro and the MTH Coal loader. I haven't
hooked up the coal loader yet, but it looks very nice. The only thing I
see different from the original, is the can motor mechanism, which is to
be expected I guess. The wiring attaches a little different, with screw
terminals on the back, maybe not like the original ( ? ), but it could
have been made that way... The 752A came with a button that looks much
like an original, though black (I think my 752A as a kid had a white
button). It also came with a bag of coal, which I was happy to see.

The MTH Gabe was super, the the MTH coaler was slow, but there is a
simple fix for that. I understand the MTH saw mill works better than the
original Gilbert, though I have not hooked mine up yet. All of these
accessories are quite nice, so what's the big deal. I have to wonder if
the people complaining about them, have even bought / seen / used them.


Yes, new accessories could be designed and built that take advantage of
21st century technology, but many of us are into these trains because of
childhood memories, more than anything. I am happy. I got a brand new
shining 752A reproduction (rust free) for around $150, and it is going
to look great on the layout. For an operator, these accessories are
great. I would have never sprung for an original Gabe! But now, I got one...
Group: S-Trains Message: 16599 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: new guy with track question.
You have several choices.
AM track and switches, add roadbed if you wish. See the AM website.

SHS track and switches. Sectional track comes w/roadbed, flex without.
See SHS website.

Gargraves, which is OK but a little too oversize for my taste. Blends
in well with existing AF, looks better than AF, costs less than AM or
SHS, and you can use either AF or Gargraves switches.
There is also a relatively new code 172 Hirail track that is very
rugged. Look on Craig O'Connel's website for track options.

John McCarthy wrote:
>
> Hello to all,
>
> I have an important question perhaps someone has
> an answer.
>
> I want to run Flyer, Lionel Flyer, SHS, and American
> models engines and rolling stock (all high rail) and use the
> track and remote switches that will work with all the above
> with the i.e. fewest derailments etc. I see there are several manufacturers but which stuff seems to work best
> considering track, switches and the above type of
> equipment?
>
> Any opinions? Your input is appreciated.
>
> john
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 16600 From: cliffgarz@aol.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: Smoke Fluid
I have used RFG Smoke fluid and it is very good the only thing I was not
happy about is it sat in my cabinet for about 6 month and it started leaking
through the plastic bottle that it was shipped in I had to move it to a glass
bottle.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16601 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Fwd: smoke fluid, JUST A QUICK REVIEW
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16602 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: What DO we want?
Last spring at the Spree in Columbus Ohio, the then new MTH Gabe was the talk. People were all making plans as to how to rig it so he would turn the light on and off rather doing that yourself.

Now the one from the "L" people does that, and everyone seems to talk against the idea.

I'd trade my MTH unit for one of those. Even if I had to go to a parts dealer and buy a repo of "Gabe" and replace the "L" man. My point is that that was ask for, and when it comes, the people put them down for it. Are we the type to complain when they hang us with a new rope?

Sure there's a lot that can be done new. Look at the MTH Station with the changing of what's on the platform. At least, as well as rehash the old, they do try to offer something new that was never out before.

jfred





---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16603 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: # 914 LIKE MINT CONDITION
FYI here is a seller I think should be on the ?????? list.

I bought this item (see link below)

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1686238496

This is the car that had the shorted coil.


I e-mailed the seller telling him that the coil was shorted. At that
time the only one I found was at SSS trains and was 25.00 bucks.

Below is the reply I got:
_____________________________________________________________________
I know nothing about AF , I bought a collection from some older
folks, so I am selling it, as far as the coil, well sorry but I had
no idea on how it work or what, I never said it worked and I believe
that you never ask that, I try to be honest on every item, all you
have to do is check my feedback and you will see that, I really don't
want you to return it, but I really don't want to dish out $25, but I
will split the difference with you $12.50, if you were to return it I
would refund your money minus Ebays fees which would be app. $3 & $6
s&h and you would have to pay to ship it here. Other than this coil
the car is super cond. So can I send you a check for $13 ?
______________________________________________________________________


So do most sellers expect you to pay their auction fees and shipping
both ways if they have an item that has something wrong they didn't
know about?

Does this seem like a fair gesture on his part?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16604 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: new old accessories
Hi Chuck,

Your note expresses my sentiments exactly. I guess us baby-boomers want our Flyer repros to be as close to the original as possible, without having to pay the big bucks that the cherry originals are now selling for. Hey, if money were absolutely no consideration - but chrimey, it just IS.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Harrington" <myflyertrains@...>
Cc: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] new old accessories


> I just received my L 752A repro and the MTH Coal loader. I haven't
> hooked up the coal loader yet, but it looks very nice. The only thing I
> see different from the original, is the can motor mechanism, which is to
> be expected I guess. The wiring attaches a little different, with screw
> terminals on the back, maybe not like the original ( ? ), but it could
> have been made that way... The 752A came with a button that looks much
> like an original, though black (I think my 752A as a kid had a white
> button). It also came with a bag of coal, which I was happy to see.
>
> The MTH Gabe was super, the the MTH coaler was slow, but there is a
> simple fix for that. I understand the MTH saw mill works better than the
> original Gilbert, though I have not hooked mine up yet. All of these
> accessories are quite nice, so what's the big deal. I have to wonder if
> the people complaining about them, have even bought / seen / used them.
>
>
> Yes, new accessories could be designed and built that take advantage of
> 21st century technology, but many of us are into these trains because of
> childhood memories, more than anything. I am happy. I got a brand new
> shining 752A reproduction (rust free) for around $150, and it is going
> to look great on the layout. For an operator, these accessories are
> great. I would have never sprung for an original Gabe! But now, I got one...
>
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16605 From: mlmarmer Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Help on value on AF trains
I would like some input from the group on how a broken pin or nib (I think that is the correct term) on a box car that holds the door shut, a missing brake wheel, or missing step will lower the value of that item, meaning what percentage on the listed price in the guide books should be deducted, for each separate broken item or missing item, especially if the item is in E or E plus. Chipped Catwalk, also.

I am in the process of going over the value of my collection, since I haven't done anything since 1996 and will update the insurance. I am using the TM book, since I understand that is a more realistic guide to use vs. the Greenberg guides. However, I see Greenberg puts out a new book each year and I wonder how often the TM book will be updated and I understand many things don't change from year to year. I still see the 5 digit Southern Gondola in that book is still under valued just like in the Greenberg guide!

Thanks for any help anybody gives me. I am sure I will have more questions later, as I go along, in this process.

One more quick one, a bent coupler (the arm part that holds the plastic coupler) and the tip of the coupler is re-glued on a E plus 25419 PA flat. Eplus could be LN, but I am having a hard time with the definition of LN in general. How will this effect the value?

Too bad trains couldn't get professional grading like BB cards or coins with a certification. Maybe something for TCA to work on in the future?

Mike Marmer


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16606 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: # 914 LIKE MINT CONDITION
I know how you may feel about the car not working, I would feel the same. But that
is the rarer version, as you probably know and from the pictures, it looks in pretty
good shape. Looks like you got it for a decent price, I've seen them for much more.
TCA grading standards say nothing about the operability of the piece, only
appearance. I think the guy was being honest in his not knowing and also for you not
asking if that was important. Anymore, I make the assumption that nothing operates
and will need some repair when I bid. And yes, virtually every seller I've had to
negotiate wants their ebay fees and you to pay shipping both ways. I've managed to
negotiate repair or hidden damage costs in all but one case. The coil is easy to fix
or rewind and if you can get him to to pay part of the repair I think he is being
more than fair. If you haven't already bought the coil, I may have one around in the
parts bins I could sell you a little cheaper.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


robbe_wan wrote:

> FYI here is a seller I think should be on the ?????? list.
>
> I bought this item (see link below)
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1686238496
>
> This is the car that had the shorted coil.
>
> I e-mailed the seller telling him that the coil was shorted. At that
> time the only one I found was at SSS trains and was 25.00 bucks.
>
> Below is the reply I got:
> _____________________________________________________________________
> I know nothing about AF , I bought a collection from some older
> folks, so I am selling it, as far as the coil, well sorry but I had
> no idea on how it work or what, I never said it worked and I believe
> that you never ask that, I try to be honest on every item, all you
> have to do is check my feedback and you will see that, I really don't
> want you to return it, but I really don't want to dish out $25, but I
> will split the difference with you $12.50, if you were to return it I
> would refund your money minus Ebays fees which would be app. $3 & $6
> s&h and you would have to pay to ship it here. Other than this coil
> the car is super cond. So can I send you a check for $13 ?
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> So do most sellers expect you to pay their auction fees and shipping
> both ways if they have an item that has something wrong they didn't
> know about?
>
> Does this seem like a fair gesture on his part?
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16607 From: David Dewey Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: Help on value on AF trains
Mike,
I've had some conversations with SERIOUS AF collectors (While I'm mainly
an operator, the museum curator in me comes out and I do pay attention to
collecting, and even have a few pieces I won't run because of their mint
condition). ANYTHING, like a broken nib, chipped catwalk, etc. eliminates
the LN condition, and usually the E+ condition, if not E entirely. HOWEVER!
This ain't necessarily so. . .depending on the rarity of the item--or
perhaps I should say, the grading stays the same, but the value loss is much
less. A good example is the first L AF boxcar. The box was too small, and
most of them lost the door latch nib. One with the nib is much more valuable
than one without, even though it was a factory goof. (or maybe because it
was??). Another common factory problem is the corner steps on many cars,
they often didn't survive the production process, and you can tell because
the broken area is covered with factory paint. Is it still a broken step? Or
should there be a catagory for missing steps?
Now if you have an IC reefer (most any number version) that has a chipped
catwalk, that pretty much drops it to "layout" status, because they are so
common--but the same chip on a, say CN reefer, would merely lower the value
some. The amount would be debatable and really is in the eye of the
purchaser!
You mention cars with repairs. Uh, sorry, I don't think that qualifies as
an E anymore (unless the repair is invisible, such as replacing a truck with
factory-appearing rivet job). A bent metal coupler arm can be straightened,
with no one the wiser! One could even replace a missing brakewheel (with a
genuine ACG wheel). However, is it scrupulous to sell the car without
mentioning the repair? That can start a whole 'nother discussion.
I'm not here to make cases either way, just trying to report what I've
gleaned from a variety of collectors, I hope it's useful. I have repaired
cars running on my layout, and yes, if you look, you can see the repairs.
But, running around the track, GEE! that's a nice-looking car, David! BTW,
if you can see the repair, it ain't invisible! (Did I need to say that?)
Time to go eat, I'm rambling!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16608 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: re :914
I think the seller is being very fair.The term like mint to describe it
tipped me he wasn't an experienced train guy.His offer to let you pay the
ebay fees rather than ask for a refund from ebay is not unusual.The shipping
policy he has is not uncommon.Like it says in Greenbergs "great deal of
concern with exterior appearance...if operation is important to you, you
should ask".

Even with fixing the coil,it looks like you got a great car at a decent
price.
Keith


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16609 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: 914
Hi,

Now would be a wonderful time to learn how to rewind a coil (if you don't know already). Use the partial refund to buy the wire and get winding! You can become a more knowledgeable Flyer repairman and a wiser eBayer in the process.

Good luck,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16610 From: David Dewey Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: # 914 LIKE MINT CONDITION
IF the car is as nice as the pics, and you have the box, you got a good
deal--maybe not a GREAT deal, but a good one. Oddly enough, train
collectable value has little to do with operational value, so the shorted
coil, while making the car worth less to us operators, barely fazes the
serious collector, especially if there is no visible damage. I would be very
surprised to find a coil shorted on a car as clean as this one. have you
checked everything, looking for a stray bit of solder, or bad insulation?
There's even a chance ACG missed an insulating washer on the power truck!
The guy's response sounds genuine to me, however I would inquire as to
operationability (is that a real word?) on anything he's selling from now
on. I once bought a repainted streamliner car that was listed as
"professionally repainted" -- well, I wouldn't call it that, it's thick,
runny and dirt specs in it, but it looks OK on the layout, and well, gee, I
run it with LTI CZ cars, and the finishes sorta match! (That was one of
LTI's poorer finish jobs, very orange-peely.). I'm satisfied with the
purchase (not overjoyed, but OK), but I do notice the same guy selling other
"professional" jobs. I think he does them in his garage with a brush! (no,
not airbrush, brush, cheap ones at that.)
Time to go to a Community Concert, something about Broadway Hits, should be
good.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16611 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: help on value of AF trains
The value of a toy train is exactly what you can get for it, no more and no
less. Unfortunately, you won't find out what that is until you sell it!

Prices and values that are arbitrarily set are just so much smoke. They
don't really exist. They are pretend, just another game that can be played
with toy trains.

There are factors that affect the price, such as condition, rarity, etc,
but they are just possibilities and probabilities that the item is going to
be more or less desirable. Although they are factors that will affect the
price, they are not matters of fact that lead to factual values and prices.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 16612 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: Help on value on AF trains
In a message dated 1/15/02 9:05:06 PM, mlmarmer@... writes:

<< I still see the 5 digit Southern Gondola in that book is still under
valued just like in the Greenberg guide!

Thanks for any help anybody gives me. >>

Included in the revisions included in the TrainTracker 4.0 version of the TM
AF Guide, the 24116 has been updated to a rarity of (3) and a price of $130
in excellent condition - no box. Hope this helps.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 16613 From: Mark Kiner Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: # 914 LIKE MINT CONDITION
Thanks to everyone for giving me their perspective on this situation. I
didn't realize that function was of little importance when you are talking
about value. Sounds like everyone thinks that the sellers response was
appropriate.

I do agree that I don't think he knew that it didn't function.

The car is very nice. The wheels don't look like they have spent hardly any
time on track. I did look for the missing insulator on the truck. Since I am
keeping the car I will unsolder the leads from the center of the truck and
check the coil just to make sure there is not a short I have missed
somewhere.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16614 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Bente Velapoldi <velapoldi@...> wrote:

<Subject: Re: academic titles
<
<I thought PhD only meant piled higher and deeper.

Careful, I resemble that remark!!!!

Joe Haenn, Ph.D.




=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
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Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16615 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Columbus, OH & Lexington, KY
Headed out of town next week. Any good train stores,
preferably with S, in either Columbus, Ohio or
Lexington, Kentucky?

TIA,
Joe

=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16616 From: rpd3@att.net Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: New e-mail address for Roger Delthony
Group: S-Trains Message: 16617 From: rpd3@att.net Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: New e-mail address for Roger Delthony
My appologies if you received a blank copy of this
message.

Effective immediately my new e-mail address will be:
rpd5@.... Please make this change to your
records.

Regards,

Roger Delthony
Group: S-Trains Message: 16618 From: Gary Chidester Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: help on value of AF trains
At the risk of being scoffed at for my input, I would like to also say that
the prices for items change as often as the wind. I watch e-Bay a lot
because I am curious about the prices of the Flyer pieces I own. Prices for
what appears to be identical pieces (as identical as they can be) can be
extremely high one day and then low the next and vice versa. I think the
main factor of price, especially on e-Bay is if someone wants it bad enough!
The real key is having more than one person wanting something very bad!

Gary (Still e-Bay purchase free since December 27th)



on 1/15/02 8:06 PM, jarcho@... at jarcho@... wrote:

> The value of a toy train is exactly what you can get for it, no more and no
> less. Unfortunately, you won't find out what that is until you sell it!
>
> Prices and values that are arbitrarily set are just so much smoke. They
> don't really exist. They are pretend, just another game that can be played
> with toy trains.
>
> There are factors that affect the price, such as condition, rarity, etc,
> but they are just possibilities and probabilities that the item is going to
> be more or less desirable. Although they are factors that will affect the
> price, they are not matters of fact that lead to factual values and prices.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16619 From: Mike Vana Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Smoke
Has anyone tried Lionel or Bachman smoke fluid in AF smoke units?
If so, what were the results like? My Dad read somewhere to try
sewing machine oil. It works, but doesn't smell the greatest.
There was an S Gaugian many years ago with a smoke formula. My
Dad make up a batch, and uses it in his three rail O gauge trains.
It definitely smells unique - not real good, but not bad either.
One of the ingredients is a scent. I forget what he used.

Regarding the use of a Lionel ZW transformer, we had an old Z
transformer that would go up to 26 volts. It burned out a few
smoke units while we used it, along with some diesel motors, too.
You sure could run multiple diesels, though. Those steam locos
pour out the thick smoke like real ones in the half minute or
so when that smoke unit fries inside!

I'm back to using AF 30B transformers now.

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16620 From: Mark Kiner Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: 914 coil
Ok, so I pulled the wire of the coil and there were 243 wraps. Sounds like
the 245 number someone gave me is on the money as I could have missed two
pretty easy. (not like a couple wraps makes any difference anyway.) I will
measure the linear feet of wire when I get someone to give me a hand.

The diameter of the wire is .016", but I haven't checked a reference to see
what EWG that is. The insulation was definately melted on the coil and there
were signs of high temps all the way to the core.

So I was wondering if the easy way (being a lazy sort) to wind this back up
would be to get the correct linear feet of wire staged and ready. chuck up a
wood dowel in the drill that fits the inner bore of the coil spool, and then
proceed to wind up the whole thing and kind of forget about counting wraps.


Any comments?

MK
Group: S-Trains Message: 16621 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: What DO we want?
Just received my Gabe by China Flyer this afternoon. All of my Flyer is
boxed up, as my Train room is not yet finished so I dug around and came
up with a transformer and hooked it up. It worked very well and I am
happy with it. Yes you press the button down 40 some times to get Gabe
to the top, but he is supposed to be climbing the ladder rung by rung so
this is not too far off as the ladder has about 36 rungs. There is no
seperate button for the light but thats what your sending Gabe to the
top for anyway so let him turn it on. I have only operated one original
Gabe a few yeas ago at an openhouse at Heimburger House Publishing and I
can't recall that much of a difference in the number of strokes to get
him to the top or the operation in general, except of course the extra
button on the Gilbert model. I even think that Gabe's size is pretty
much the same as the original { hope to get a feedback on this from any
member that
can actually compare the two] All in all I am pleased with this item and
I think it will look at home next to my original Flyer when I am able to
get my layout going. My train dollars are limited and I would never have
considered buying an original at the prices they go for.
Oh Boy! Trains!.................Herky 1950
Obie Bell
Group: S-Trains Message: 16622 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: Hiawatha conversion
Steve asks about Mel Leilson's Hiawatha conversions:

Mel (Ballston Locomotive Works) has a full set of cars for the Hiawatha.
They are scale length and very plain looking, but Mel will quickly point out
that the prototype was plain also. It is an early Hiawatha and has the
squared boat-tail observation. I don't know anyone who makes a Skyview
Lounge or the one with the big tail-fin in S.

The whole line was originally made by Tom Hodgson (American Hi-Rail) who
makes the Dreyfuss shell and the Aerotrain. Tom does nice work but is
notoriously unreliable as far as schedules, production dates or
answerability to his public in this arena. He works as a pilot. Mel has
his own production people and has paint contractors to do his models. That
is fraught with problems too. Too bad. There are a lot of nice things to
be had here, including modern diesels and cars Flyer never made but should
have. I believe he also did the Trainmaster and RDC shells for PHM.

Tom has also done some interesting motor experiments and was one of the
first to come out with a can motor conversion kit for Flyer steamers. This
was the one where you had to cut the worm gear off an original motor. He
had a 1.5 volt can that would run an Atlantic around the track all day at a
crawl using a single AA penlight battery.

Don't bother writing Tom. Your letter will go into a mile high stack, and
not necessarily at the top! Mel will do nice customer service, though, and
will sell you a set of Hiawatha cars if he has them in stock.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16623 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: new guy with track question.
My American Models S-12 does not like my SHS switches. I would love
to hear from someone who has made this work. I have come real close
to taking a lathe to the wheels. I have done quite a bit of comparing
of the flange cross-section to my SHS SW-9 and I think that it will
take some machining to make them work. (There is a definite
difference)

The drive coupling on the S-12 is a spring. This spring tries to
force the truck chassis to straight. This slight amount of centering
force on the chassis causes the flange of the wheels to collide with
the point of the switch.

BTW this is with hi-rail wheels.

Don't expect great performance with LTI diesels either. I posted this
on the showcase list after purchasing the switches and I had several
members e-mail me in private make fun of my LTI "toy" trains. You can
set the LTI stuff at narrower than spec gauge and make them work
better, but I think wheel machining is required here also.

Lastly on the LTI many of the pickup shoes set at a wide enough track
that they will slip down along the side of the narrower code rail
used with the SHS S-Trax. (rather than running on top) This makes for
an ugly quick stop when you get to a switch.

All the SHS stuff runs through them like a swiss watch.

MK



> Hello to all,
>
> I have an important question perhaps someone has
> an answer.
>
> I want to run Flyer, Lionel Flyer, SHS, and American
> models engines and rolling stock (all high rail) and use the
> track and remote switches that will work with all the above
> with the i.e. fewest derailments etc. I see there are several
manufacturers but which stuff seems to work best
> considering track, switches and the above type of
> equipment?
>
> Any opinions? Your input is appreciated.
>
> john
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16624 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Saddel Back Tanker
Has anyone used the saddle back shell from Ballston Loco Works for the AF
Atlantic?
I think that was what it was called. I have their cat. here somewhere..
Thanks Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16625 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: new guy with track question.
Hello.

You could use Flyer track. It is cheap, readily available, and you can do
a lot with it.

After all, all that stuff you want to run is "Flyer compatible"!

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 16626 From: bilfrazier@aol.com Date: 1/15/2002
Subject: Re: Ballston Camelback
In a message dated 1/16/02 1:58:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:36:45 EST
> From: anormal1@...
> Subject: Saddel Back Tanker
>
> Has anyone used the saddle back shell from Ballston Loco Works for the
> AF
> Atlantic?
> I think that was what it was called. I have their cat. here somewhere..
> Thanks Mike S.

Yes, I've got one and am quite pleased with it. I added extra details to a
regular tender shell to go with it.

Bill Frazier




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16627 From: David Dewey Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Pics of the 20002 AF line are out!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16628 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Pics of the 20002 AF line are out!
Hi David:
Tx for the url's. quite easy to see what is available. Assume that is the "bubbling"
checked tower???
Rance

David Dewey wrote:

> Hi all,
> Just found pics of the L catalog, here's the URLS;
>
> http://www.train-station.com/cgi-local/shop.pl/page=6-20021-0072.html/SID=29
> 28827829
>
> http://www.train-station.com/cgi-local/shop.pl/page=6-20021-0073.html/SID=29
> 28827829
>
> http://www.train-station.com/cgi-local/shop.pl/page=6-20021-0074.html/SID=29
> 28827829
>
> http://www.train-station.com/cgi-local/shop.pl/page=6-20021-0075.html/SID=29
> 28827829
>
> S'
> David D.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16629 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Ballston Camelback
CamelbacK!
Tom D.

----- Original Message -----
From: <bilfrazier@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 2:20 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Ballston Camelback


> In a message dated 1/16/02 1:58:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
>
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:36:45 EST
> > From: anormal1@...
> > Subject: Saddel Back Tanker
> >
> > Has anyone used the saddle back shell from Ballston Loco Works for
the
> > AF
> > Atlantic?
> > I think that was what it was called. I have their cat. here somewhere..
> > Thanks Mike S.
>
> Yes, I've got one and am quite pleased with it. I added extra details to a
> regular tender shell to go with it.
>
> Bill Frazier
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16630 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Hiawatha conversion
Tom H. only did the prototype of the Trainmaster. The production units are a
reworked version of this output.

Tom had nothing to do the with the RDC shell. This was an output of our
protomilled brass technology, and the first units were flat sided kits cast
by Banta Model Works. A one piece shell casting came later from a local
contractor.

Tom D.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
To: <splitdorf@...>
Cc: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 1:05 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] re: Hiawatha conversion


> Steve asks about Mel Leilson's Hiawatha conversions:
>
> Mel (Ballston Locomotive Works) has a full set of cars for the Hiawatha.
> They are scale length and very plain looking, but Mel will quickly point
out
> that the prototype was plain also. It is an early Hiawatha and has the
> squared boat-tail observation. I don't know anyone who makes a Skyview
> Lounge or the one with the big tail-fin in S.
>
> The whole line was originally made by Tom Hodgson (American Hi-Rail) who
> makes the Dreyfuss shell and the Aerotrain. Tom does nice work but is
> notoriously unreliable as far as schedules, production dates or
> answerability to his public in this arena. He works as a pilot. Mel has
> his own production people and has paint contractors to do his models.
That
> is fraught with problems too. Too bad. There are a lot of nice things to
> be had here, including modern diesels and cars Flyer never made but should
> have. I believe he also did the Trainmaster and RDC shells for PHM.
>
> Tom has also done some interesting motor experiments and was one of the
> first to come out with a can motor conversion kit for Flyer steamers.
This
> was the one where you had to cut the worm gear off an original motor. He
> had a 1.5 volt can that would run an Atlantic around the track all day at
a
> crawl using a single AA penlight battery.
>
> Don't bother writing Tom. Your letter will go into a mile high stack, and
> not necessarily at the top! Mel will do nice customer service, though,
and
> will sell you a set of Hiawatha cars if he has them in stock.
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16631 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Atlanta Show
Gentlemen,
We are going to be present at the GATS show in Atlanta this weekend. See our web site for details. If your are in the area, stop by and see us. We have some new products available in both S and O which have not found their way to the web site yet.

We love to hear from you folks and get some ideas for more new products.
Tom D.

Tom Doherty
Pennsylvania Heritage Models, Ltd.
http://www.paheritagemodels.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16632 From: crustyfour Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: 914 coil
Mark,

Winding a coil is pretty easy and will work as you describe, just be
sure the wire doesn't get kinked and wind it s-l-o-w-l-e-y. Nominal
diameter of 25 gauge is 0.018", nominal diamter of 24 gauge is .020".
If you use the 24 gauge wire you may find that you can't get quite as
many turns in the same amount of space. On the other hand,
manufactures are always looking to reduce costs. As such they will
use just enough wire to accomplish the job. In my coil winding
experience I've found that there is usually enough extra room to get
at least 10% more turns of wire than original which improves
performance.

Steve Blancard

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Mark Kiner" <Negative_Pitch@h...> wrote:
> Ok, so I pulled the wire of the coil and there were 243 wraps.
Sounds like
> the 245 number someone gave me is on the money as I could have
missed two
> pretty easy. (not like a couple wraps makes any difference anyway.)
I will
> measure the linear feet of wire when I get someone to give me a
hand.
>
> The diameter of the wire is .016", but I haven't checked a reference
to see
> what EWG that is. The insulation was definately melted on the coil
and there
> were signs of high temps all the way to the core.
>
> So I was wondering if the easy way (being a lazy sort) to wind this
back up
> would be to get the correct linear feet of wire staged and ready.
chuck up a
> wood dowel in the drill that fits the inner bore of the coil spool,
and then
> proceed to wind up the whole thing and kind of forget about counting
wraps.
>
>
> Any comments?
>
> MK
Group: S-Trains Message: 16633 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Hiawatha conversion
Thomas Doherty, who IS PHM, offers a correction:
> Tom (Hodgson) only did the prototype of the Trainmaster. The production
units are a
> reworked version of this output. Tom had nothing to do the with the RDC
shell.

I stand corrected.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16634 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Hiawatha conversion
Nice idea. I don't think they have. It's right up his alley, but then,
there is a different logic afoot here. You might have a number of Atlantics
and Pacifics you'd be willing to cut up to make Hiawathas and Camelbacks,
but who's going to have a spare Northern around? Then there is the matter
of the tender for such a monster. It would need to be built from the ground
up.

Here's an idea. How about a Pennsy T-1 made from two Atlantics? Hmmm?
Chris Zizzo


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jarcho" <jarcho@...>
To: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 1:10 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] re: Hiawatha conversion


> Chris: has anybody such as these guys made a Niagara body to go over a
> Flyer Challenger chassis?
>
> Thanks. Tom
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16635 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Camelbacks (was Saddel Back Tanker)
Mike asks:
>Has anyone used the saddle back shell from Ballston Loco Works for the AF
Atlantic?
>I think that was what it was called. I have their cat. here somewhere..

First off, give them back their cat. The kid has been crying her eyes out
all night.
Second, it's a Camelback. A saddle tank locomotive stores water in tanks
fitted around the boiler in saddle bag fashion. A camelback is a locomotive
that places the cab squarely over the drivers, mid-boiler. The fireman
works alone at the backhead, the engineer squeezes into a small compartment
with even worse visibility than the rear cab, since his view to his left is
a hot, black, steel wall. The fireman's side remains largely unoccupied.

These engines ran principally in the Northeast, most notably on the LIRR,
the Jersey Central, and the PA. There were others also. One of the saddest
stories about lost engines involved a Jersey Central engine, saved in her
prime from the torch, totally refurbished by the shops while they were still
viable, and then cut apart and scrapped a few years later by an unconcerned
management who wanted her out of the way. Fine Art Models made a Gauge 1
version of this engine and recounted the story in their catalog. (Oh, cat.
is catalog!, I see.) Want to see pictures of what it's supposed to look
like? Go here: http://www.fineartmodels.com/camelback_thumbs.htm and click
on the thumbnail pix to see the details.

I have the model from Ballston, but I have not built it yet. I just
acquired a nice, complete Atlantic chassis at York, so it will be one of my
first projects once this house remodeling has settled down and I can devote
some time to important things.
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16636 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: New Flyer Catalog Links
Group: S-Trains Message: 16637 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Smoke
In a message dated 1/15/02 11:59:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
amflyer@... writes:

<< Has anyone tried Lionel or Bachman smoke fluid in AF smoke units? >>

I found that LGB smoke fluid works well in Gilbert and AM steamers.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 16638 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: new guy with track question.
In a message dated 1/16/02 1:44:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, jarcho@...
writes:

<< Hello.

You could use Flyer track. >>

Ah, I was waiting for Tom J. to say so. <grin>

Have to agree. I use a combination of Gilbert Flyer track and switches, the
K-Line broad curves and the Rick Johnson (and original) rubber road bed to
good operational and visual effect. This is still the only S gauge track
system which is fully and directly compatible with all of the accessory
trips, uncouplers, and power rails required for the various Flyer accessories
(without having to splice in sections of Gilbert's original). If you like the
somewhat nostalgic tinplate look that goes with the "package", you're set.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 16639 From: Horn, David Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: SHS car uncoupling
I tried wedging a piece of 1/4"x1/4" balsa with rounded-ends (I actually
used basswood) in between the runners of an ACG AF remote uncoupler and
everything worked as advertised except for one thing. While the uncoupling
of AF and SHS cars was enabled by this simple modification, the extra height
of the uncoupler was too high for my SHS SW-1's trucks. The engine would
hit the wood, lift, and with enough speed clear the uncoupler. However, it
looked funny doing so, and if it was going more slowly would bottom out on
the wood and get hung there. So if you run that engine, you might want to
tweak the insert some. I eventually found that if the block is just
slightly less than 7/32" (~5.8 mm) high instead of 1/4" then SW-1 trucks
just clear the uncoupler, yet cars of all origins still dependably uncouple.
Thanks again to whomever came up with this tip in the first place. I can
now put my trains away the way I like to - - keep 'em running around the
outer loop while peeling off one car at a time as the train crosses the
uncoupler closest to the shelves. Funny how little conveniences/habits can
make so much difference :>
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16640 From: Hannon Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: PhDs
Ok. Just how many PhD(s) do we have lurking on this list?

For that matter, how about any kind of higher education degrees
(Bachelors or Masters, single or multiple)?

How about a poll?

NAW! Maybe not. Wouldn't want it to get around that
A.C.Gilbert's "Engineering/Science" pitch really did have
an effect on the baby-boomer generation (where: "baby-boomer"
would include anyone born 1937 and later).

Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 16641 From: Hannon Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Degree Poll Results
Keep those replies coming!

So far we have 2 PhD(s) and 1 Poll (maternal side, but
that counts too) on this list.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16642 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: couplers
I have several cars that have knuckle couplers that randomly open. I've
looked at all the normal causes for the couplers to open, but haven't
found any issues concerning height, switches, or other track problems.
They just seem to randomly open (anywhere along the track) like they
just got tired and let go. It gets to be a little hassle and costly
just replacing a coupler, especially when the replacement turns out to
have problems also. I've had this happen both with original Gilbert
couplers and even more so with Flyonel couplers which I know are crappy
quality in comparison. Does anyone have a bunch of tips, etc. on
tweaking AF knuckle couplers to get them operating properly?

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO
Group: S-Trains Message: 16643 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: POLL
Hi,
I had a # after my name or was that instead of. Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16644 From: dwightlehnhoff Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: degrees?
BA, MDiv

Dwight
Group: S-Trains Message: 16645 From: Linda & Ted Weiler Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Modelng Farm Areas
Great idea! I used caulking out of a tube for the furrows. I was looking for ideas to simulate the vegetables. I found a sort of tubular bead in Hobby Lobby which is being painted green to simulate watermelon and map pins for pumpkins (painted orange). This is a truck farm scene with a farm stand.

Ted



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16646 From: Gene Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Modelng Farm Areas
I've seen Berber carpet and artificial grass carpet used. Every other row of tufting is removed. It looked very good.

Linda & Ted Weiler wrote:

> Great idea! I used caulking out of a tube for the furrows. I was looking for ideas to simulate the vegetables. I found a sort of tubular bead in Hobby Lobby which is being painted green to simulate watermelon and map pins for pumpkins (painted orange). This is a truck farm scene with a farm stand.
>
> Ted
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16647 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Dear Tom:
Each of the Indians I have are made from multiple pieces of
different colored plastic. (I haven't looked at them for years.) But I
remember the heads had molded, flesh colored plastic faces. The hair is a
removable piece of plastic in brown. Bright green sprews (or runners or
whatever) held peace pipes, head bands (which fit nicely under the hair),
tomahawks, guns, and other 'trinkets' appropriate to Disney's vision of the
Indians in the late 1950s. Nothing is painted but the colors are so rich,
no paint is needed.
I had at least three bags. (Two of Indians and one of cowboys.) I
know this because at least one bag of Indians and one bag of cowboys were
opened and scattered. The remaining bag of Indians is still intact. The
plastic bag was once clear. The top of the bag is folded over and stapled
shut. Mine is dying and developing great wrents: the Indians are trying to
escape. When the bag finishes its self-destruction, I will have to find the
Indians a new home. I would guess there are 50 or more Indians in this bag.
Many of the cowboys and many of Indians were given away by my
father. Dr. Marty, the skin doctor, gave them to children who were visiting
his office. I wonder if any of these still exist and if the owner has any
idea what they really are? (They are still pliable and are valuable toys
even today -- even if hopelessly stereotyped.)

The Indians are way oversized so they would look very bad on a scale layout.
Because of their extreme size I would normally have gotten rid of them.
However, they are part of the Truscott set so they live with the set.
(Along with the Brownie camera and original boxes.) This set was my first
'Flyer, given to a four-year old on Christmas in 1964. My father purchased
it at Osco Drug in Mason City, Iowa.
The Franklin herself (and the cars) not only live on the layout,
they see occasional duty providing railfan trips on my modern (2002
railroad.

Thorin


-- Original Message --
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 07:18:18 EST
From: TWesthelle@...
Subject: Truscott Set Cowboy and Indian Figures

I recently acquired a Frontier Truscott Set. I had included a bag of
approx.
20-30 small, appears sgauge size cowboys and Indians.
Never having seen the originals, I wondered if anyone out there either has
or
has seen this set and can give me details to determine if these figurines
are
not original.
My suspicions are that they are a replacement, they are very nice, but just
curious to determine what the original set appeared like.
Thanks again for the knowledge base here, great bunch of guys.
Tom Westhelle
Oviedo, FL



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16648 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: couplers
There are a lot of things that can make a Flyer car uncouple:
wheels the wrong width apart, bent axle, crooked sideframes, loose truck
rivet, warped car floor, to name a few. If the axle holes in the truck are
too worn, it can cause uncoupling too. All of these defects cause
excessive motionand vibration by the truck which in turn causes the
uncoupling. I just this week fixed a 960 that was uncoupling by inserting
Ace 4050 bushings into its worn axle holes. I fixed an uncoupling tank car
by replacing the truck rivets.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 16649 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: PhDs
MY LICENSE REQUIRES 6 YEARS OF COLLEGE AND 4 YEARS OF WORK EXPERIENCE BEFORE
YOU CAN EVEN SET FOR THE EXAMS. YOU CAN THEN, WITH ADDITIONAL EXPERIENCE,
APPLY FOR YOUR NATIONAL STANDING, WHICH ENABLES YOU TO OBTAIN ADDITIONAL
STATE LICENSES. AT PRESENT I AM LICENSED IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA AND I ALSO
HAVE 8 INACTIVE LICENSES IN OTHER STATES. SO WHAT IS THIS EQUAL TOO IN
DEGREES??????

ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT

BTW...I STILL HAVE AND RUN MY 1948 AND 1950 FLYER SETS, ALONG WITH THE COAL
LOADER WHICH I PAID MY LUNCH MONEY ON AS A CHILD...LAY A WAY....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hannon" <hannon@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 11:03 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] PhDs


>
> Ok. Just how many PhD(s) do we have lurking on this list?
>
> For that matter, how about any kind of higher education degrees
> (Bachelors or Masters, single or multiple)?
>
> How about a poll?
>
> NAW! Maybe not. Wouldn't want it to get around that
> A.C.Gilbert's "Engineering/Science" pitch really did have
> an effect on the baby-boomer generation (where: "baby-boomer"
> would include anyone born 1937 and later).
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16650 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: couplers
--- "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@...> wrote:
> I have several cars that have knuckle couplers that randomly open.

As Tom said, it's the vibration of the truck and not the fault of the
coupler itself. The vibration makes the weight ride up until it
uncouples. One thing that's easy to check is whether everything is
lined up straight by placing the car on a flat surface and see if all
the wheels are touching the surface. Also check if the coupler arm is
straight by looking at it from the end. David Dewey had an article on
this in the Dispatch a while back.

I once had a car that just kept opening and I finally banged it against
the table a couple of times and I haven't had a problem since! I must
have changed the vibration pattern. I also have two that I just gave up
on and ended up supergluing the coupler closed. I'll have to try some
of the other things that Tom mentioned one of these days. Also came
across another method for keeping the coupler closed if it's a hopeless
case, which is to wrap a short length of thick wire around the arm of
the weight. This keeps the weight from riding up. Of course you can't use

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Group: S-Trains Message: 16651 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Saddel Back Tanker
You're referring to a "camel back", or, rarely, a "mother hubbard".

anormal1@... wrote:
>
> Has anyone used the saddle back shell from Ballston Loco Works for the AF
> Atlantic?
> I think that was what it was called. I have their cat. here somewhere..
> Thanks Mike S.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 16652 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Saddel Back Tanker /Camel Back
Thank You My error I just couldn't think of the correct name at the time


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16653 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Saddel Back Tanker /Camel Back
Thank You My error I just couldn't think of the correct name at the time
Mike S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16654 From: David Dewey Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: PhDs
Robert,
Sounds like about 360 degrees to me!
I Couldn't resist!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16655 From: David Dewey Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Farm Scenes
Hmm, someone mentioned "For Sale" signs on the tractors. Hmm, well, then
you'll need signs by the road, "Development Property Available NOW! 300
Acres, PRIME SITE! CALL 800-NO FOOD now!" Then a bit of the ways down the
road, "FARM AUCTION SATURDAY 9 AM!"
This was supposed to be funny, but I think it's too close to the truth.
Fortunately for me, my RR is stuck in the 50's.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16656 From: Ken Kinyon - W7TS Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: PhDs
What on earth is all this about and what does it have to do with trains.
Ken

-------------------
Kenneth E. Kinyon
34 Princeton Circle
Longmont, CO 80503-2106
Voice/fax (303) 684-0037
E-mail: W7TS@...
W7TS@...
W7TS@...
ALPCA #8339
ARRL-LM
-------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT [mailto:rcon7@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 13:15
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com; Hannon
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] PhDs


MY LICENSE REQUIRES 6 YEARS OF COLLEGE AND 4 YEARS OF WORK EXPERIENCE BEFORE
YOU CAN EVEN SET FOR THE EXAMS. YOU CAN THEN, WITH ADDITIONAL EXPERIENCE,
APPLY FOR YOUR NATIONAL STANDING, WHICH ENABLES YOU TO OBTAIN ADDITIONAL
STATE LICENSES. AT PRESENT I AM LICENSED IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA AND I ALSO
HAVE 8 INACTIVE LICENSES IN OTHER STATES. SO WHAT IS THIS EQUAL TOO IN
DEGREES??????

ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT

BTW...I STILL HAVE AND RUN MY 1948 AND 1950 FLYER SETS, ALONG WITH THE COAL
LOADER WHICH I PAID MY LUNCH MONEY ON AS A CHILD...LAY A WAY....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hannon" <hannon@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 11:03 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] PhDs


>
> Ok. Just how many PhD(s) do we have lurking on this list?
>
> For that matter, how about any kind of higher education degrees
> (Bachelors or Masters, single or multiple)?
>
> How about a poll?
>
> NAW! Maybe not. Wouldn't want it to get around that
> A.C.Gilbert's "Engineering/Science" pitch really did have
> an effect on the baby-boomer generation (where: "baby-boomer"
> would include anyone born 1937 and later).
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16657 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: PhDs
ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT said:
>MY LICENSE REQUIRES 6 YEARS OF COLLEGE AND 4 YEARS OF WORK >EXPERIENCE . .
. AT PRESENT I AM LICENSED IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA AND I >ALSO HAVE 8
INACTIVE LICENSES IN OTHER STATES.

Capital idea, Bob, but even PhD drops in the middle to lower case.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16658 From: joelgerlach Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: degrees
You have one more member with a BS and working on a masters.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16659 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Fwd: smoke fluid, JUST A QUICK REVIEW
Someone requested this letter. Mike S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16660 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Degrees on list
I have a Ph.D. in Fishing and hunting and a Masters in lying......I fish,
therefore I lie. That's a requirement for any level of degree in fishing.
....{8>0 ....Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16661 From: Victor Bereskin Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Pics of the 20002 AF line are out!
I especially like the way Lionel has illustrated their offerings sitting on
shiny new K-line track.


Vic Bereskin


> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 00:08:11 -0800
> From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
> Subject: Pics of the 20002 AF line are out!
>
> Hi all,
> Just found pics of the L catalog, here's the URLS;
>
>
http://www.train-station.com/cgi-local/shop.pl/page=6-20021-0072.html/SID=29
> 28827829
>
>
http://www.train-station.com/cgi-local/shop.pl/page=6-20021-0073.html/SID=29
> 28827829
>
>
http://www.train-station.com/cgi-local/shop.pl/page=6-20021-0074.html/SID=29
> 28827829
>
>
http://www.train-station.com/cgi-local/shop.pl/page=6-20021-0075.html/SID=29
> 28827829
>
> S'
> David D.
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16662 From: garydmccullah Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: degrees
I have a B.S. in General Business from SUNY through their Regents
External Degree program. Throw in the Navy schools I went to and I
guess I am pretty well educated.
Gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 16663 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] Re: Pics of the 20002 AF line are out!
Folks,
Looks like the man is RIGHT---does appear to be K-Line track under the
Flyonel remakes of that classic 1946 boxcar and 1950 Geep. Wouldn't you have
loved to ride an NYC dome through ANY of their tunnels or into Grand Central.
They just keep on keepin' on at Flyonel. Surely the boxcar will cost more
than an SHS does.
Guess you pay more for the lack of detail.
And they thought Dan Quale was clueless.
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16664 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Shops selling "S"
Any good train stores,
preferably with S, in ....
Lexington, Kentucky?

TIA,
Joe


Not any that I know of in Lexington, KY. I sure wish there were.

jfred





---------------------------------
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Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16665 From: David Dewey Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: degrees
Joel,
GET THE THESIS DONE! Just friendly advise from someone who didn't--also,
don't make it a huge project, mine would have probably worked as a Doctoral,
if I'd done it.
So, put me down as someone with a BA and a Certificate (That's what I was
able to convert all my grad classtime too--at least it wasn't a total
waste--and it looks pretty good up on the wall too!).
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16666 From: Lance McCold Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: About smoke fluid
The Lionel smoke fluid works fine, but some bottles are not as full as
others. The LGB fluid is a much better value.

Lance

>Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:43:50 EST
> From: rbubeck327@...
>Subject: Re: Smoke
>
>
>In a message dated 1/15/02 11:59:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>amflyer@... writes:
>
>
><< Has anyone tried Lionel or Bachman smoke fluid in AF smoke units? >>
>
>
>I found that LGB smoke fluid works well in Gilbert and AM steamers.
>
>
>RB
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16667 From: mlmarmer Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Pics of the 20002 AF line are out!
They are using K-Line track, a competitor, because they are missing the
"add-on" sales to their product line by not making any track. Any good
sales organization knows to sell, along with the main goods, profitable
add-ons to complete the sale and the order. And to make more money (profits
dollars) for the sales department and company. No dis-respect to those with
advance degrees, me- a University of MD, B.S., Marketing, but sales is what
make the economy and world go on! Just teasing, don't fry me!

Maybe re-pro Gilbert track is next?

Fear the Turtle!

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD
----- Original Message -----
From: <WJJIM@...>
To: <glavinus@...>; <RoyAidlot@...>; <THESMITH67@...>;
<honeynsir@...>; <CAMPER279@...>; <Lanccotrainsrus@...>;
<JWBrown929@...>; <rdgfp7@...>; <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 8:11 PM
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] Re: Pics of the 20002 AF line are out!


> Folks,
> Looks like the man is RIGHT---does appear to be K-Line track under the
> Flyonel remakes of that classic 1946 boxcar and 1950 Geep. Wouldn't you
have
> loved to ride an NYC dome through ANY of their tunnels or into Grand
Central.
> They just keep on keepin' on at Flyonel. Surely the boxcar will cost
more
> than an SHS does.
> Guess you pay more for the lack of detail.
> And they thought Dan Quale was clueless.
> Jim Lyle
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16668 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: degrees
Not a Ph.D., but a BSME and almost a Masters, Registered PE in IL, CA, & FL., Cert.
Product Safety Eng., licensed USCG 50 ton Capt. w/ towing endorsement, certified
diver, and others I've forgotten. Now I'm working on my kiddy degree; "KD in A/F".
Gene
PS: Does this mean I'm now qualified to plug in the transformer and throw the switch?

Egads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16669 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Degrees on list
Oooooooops!; I forgot I'm a mechanical engineer! I guess I'll have to call in an
electrical engineer to plug in the transformer and throw the switch! Hope he's
registered in FL.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16670 From: Donald P. Abrams Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Huh?
$7,600 and there's still an hour to go? Am I missing something?

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1688549156
Group: S-Trains Message: 16671 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: degrees
Another University of MD, B.S.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Eugene Steffan" <stefengineer@...>
To: "garydmccullah" <garymccullah@...>
Cc: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] degrees


> Not a Ph.D., but a BSME and almost a Masters, Registered PE in IL, CA, &
FL., Cert.
> Product Safety Eng., licensed USCG 50 ton Capt. w/ towing endorsement,
certified
> diver, and others I've forgotten. Now I'm working on my kiddy degree; "KD
in A/F".
> Gene
> PS: Does this mean I'm now qualified to plug in the transformer and throw
the switch?
>
> Egads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16672 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: huh
Gotta be the trees

TJ
Group: S-Trains Message: 16673 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: degrees
No degrees here,but my wife has 2 b.s. degrees, an M.B.A.,A Masters In
Education and a Masters in Computer Info. Systems.I'm not as smart as her so
I have to stay home with my 2 year old grandaughter and play
choo-choos,While she gets to go to work,boy I wish I was smarter.Keith

>From: "Jim Hannawald" <jhannawa@...>
>To: "S-Trains" <>
>Subject: Re: [S-Trains] degrees
>Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:22:03 -0500
>
>Another University of MD, B.S.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Eugene Steffan" <stefengineer@...>
>To: "garydmccullah" <garymccullah@...>
>Cc: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:31 PM
>Subject: Re: [S-Trains] degrees
>
>
> > Not a Ph.D., but a BSME and almost a Masters, Registered PE in IL, CA, &
>FL., Cert.
> > Product Safety Eng., licensed USCG 50 ton Capt. w/ towing endorsement,
>certified
> > diver, and others I've forgotten. Now I'm working on my kiddy degree;
>"KD
>in A/F".
> > Gene
> > PS: Does this mean I'm now qualified to plug in the transformer and
>throw
>the switch?
> >
> > Egads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
>s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
>s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




Keith


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16674 From: Dan Brindell Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: couplers
I think this has been mentioned on the list before, but just in case......if
you have Flyer re-railers, sometimes the center section is high enough to
nudge the coupler weight as it passes.

Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@...>
To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 12:20 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] couplers


> I have several cars that have knuckle couplers that randomly open. I've
> looked at all the normal causes for the couplers to open, but haven't
> found any issues concerning height, switches, or other track problems.
> They just seem to randomly open (anywhere along the track) like they
> just got tired and let go. It gets to be a little hassle and costly
> just replacing a coupler, especially when the replacement turns out to
> have problems also. I've had this happen both with original Gilbert
> couplers and even more so with Flyonel couplers which I know are crappy
> quality in comparison. Does anyone have a bunch of tips, etc. on
> tweaking AF knuckle couplers to get them operating properly?
>
> Roger Petrella
> Franktown, CO
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16675 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Camelbacks (was Saddel Back Tanker)
If anyone would like to see one of these, it is in the St. Louis Museum.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
To: <anormal1@...>
Cc: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:17 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Camelbacks (was Saddel Back Tanker)


> Mike asks:
> >Has anyone used the saddle back shell from Ballston Loco Works for the
AF
> Atlantic?
> >I think that was what it was called. I have their cat. here somewhere..
>
> First off, give them back their cat. The kid has been crying her eyes out
> all night.
> Second, it's a Camelback. A saddle tank locomotive stores water in tanks
> fitted around the boiler in saddle bag fashion. A camelback is a
locomotive
> that places the cab squarely over the drivers, mid-boiler. The fireman
> works alone at the backhead, the engineer squeezes into a small
compartment
> with even worse visibility than the rear cab, since his view to his left
is
> a hot, black, steel wall. The fireman's side remains largely unoccupied.
>
> These engines ran principally in the Northeast, most notably on the LIRR,
> the Jersey Central, and the PA. There were others also. One of the
saddest
> stories about lost engines involved a Jersey Central engine, saved in her
> prime from the torch, totally refurbished by the shops while they were
still
> viable, and then cut apart and scrapped a few years later by an
unconcerned
> management who wanted her out of the way. Fine Art Models made a Gauge 1
> version of this engine and recounted the story in their catalog. (Oh,
cat.
> is catalog!, I see.) Want to see pictures of what it's supposed to look
> like? Go here: http://www.fineartmodels.com/camelback_thumbs.htm and
click
> on the thumbnail pix to see the details.
>
> I have the model from Ballston, but I have not built it yet. I just
> acquired a nice, complete Atlantic chassis at York, so it will be one of
my
> first projects once this house remodeling has settled down and I can devot
e
> some time to important things.
> Chris Zizzo
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16676 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Camelbacks (was Saddel Back Tanker)
Dear Tom,
CNJ #592 Atlantic is much closer in Baltimore and in the roundhouse of the B&O
museum.
Don T.

Thomas@... wrote:

> If anyone would like to see one of these, it is in the St. Louis Museum.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
> To: <anormal1@...>
> Cc: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:17 AM
> Subject: [S-Trains] Camelbacks (was Saddel Back Tanker)
>
> > Mike asks:
> > >Has anyone used the saddle back shell from Ballston Loco Works for the
> AF
> > Atlantic?
> > >I think that was what it was called. I have their cat. here somewhere..
> >
> > First off, give them back their cat. The kid has been crying her eyes out
> > all night.
> > Second, it's a Camelback. A saddle tank locomotive stores water in tanks
> > fitted around the boiler in saddle bag fashion. A camelback is a
> locomotive
> > that places the cab squarely over the drivers, mid-boiler. The fireman
> > works alone at the backhead, the engineer squeezes into a small
> compartment
> > with even worse visibility than the rear cab, since his view to his left
> is
> > a hot, black, steel wall. The fireman's side remains largely unoccupied.
> >
> > These engines ran principally in the Northeast, most notably on the LIRR,
> > the Jersey Central, and the PA. There were others also. One of the
> saddest
> > stories about lost engines involved a Jersey Central engine, saved in her
> > prime from the torch, totally refurbished by the shops while they were
> still
> > viable, and then cut apart and scrapped a few years later by an
> unconcerned
> > management who wanted her out of the way. Fine Art Models made a Gauge 1
> > version of this engine and recounted the story in their catalog. (Oh,
> cat.
> > is catalog!, I see.) Want to see pictures of what it's supposed to look
> > like? Go here: http://www.fineartmodels.com/camelback_thumbs.htm and
> click
> > on the thumbnail pix to see the details.
> >
> > I have the model from Ballston, but I have not built it yet. I just
> > acquired a nice, complete Atlantic chassis at York, so it will be one of
> my
> > first projects once this house remodeling has settled down and I can devot
> e
> > some time to important things.
> > Chris Zizzo
> >
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 16677 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: degrees
Question: If an electrical engineer doesn't know which way the lectrons flow in a
wire (except by man-made convention), how does he know if the trains are going
forward or reverse?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16678 From: jahoozdumm Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Re: Pics of the 20002 AF line are out!
Jim Lyle wrote:

>Wouldn't you have loved to ride an NYC dome through ANY of their
>tunnels or into Grand Central.


I understand that in the 2003 catalogue, Lionel will offer tiny signs
to mount over each tunnel portal for dome occupants to read that say:

If you can see this sign, DUCK!!!!


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16679 From: Mike Vana Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: College Degrees and new Lionel AF
Since you are taking a poll, I have a bachelors degree
in business from Marquette University in Milwaukee,
Wisconsin, 1978.

After seeing the Lionel 2002 listings, I think that
they are only making toy trains intended for collectors,
without regard to prototypical accuracy. In the 1950's
American Flyer and other manufacturers weren't faulted
for that - there never were real NP PA's for example.
But now people are more knowledgeable about the prototype.
If people want to buy Lionel's new products, that's fine
with me, but I think that S scale is well enough
established that nobody should feel they have to buy
everything just to keep the new products coming.

Aside from the nonexistent NYC dome car, the Rock
Island never had dynamic brakes on any diesel locomotives
they bought new, including GP7's. While Lionel calls
their Geep a GP9, it's a GP7 with dynamic brakes.
(Any GP model could be bought with or without
dynamic brakes.) Rock Island had GP9's, too, but they
were delivered in maroon. Technically, RI did have
dynamic brake equipped GP7's, acquired in the 1970's
from the Rio Grande. RI renumbered them to 4200's,
added RI emblems and ran them in Rio Grande paint until
they were rebuilt, and repainted in the blue and white
scheme. At that time they were rebuilt without dynamic
brakes. That's probably more than you wanted to know,
but my point is that if I buy any more S gauge, I want
it to be reasonably accurate. I'll accept Gilbert Flyer
for what it is, but that's all.

Lionel can do a really good job. I just bought an NYC
bay window caboose in O gauge, and converted it for
two rail operation. It is a new mold, very close to scale,
if not exact, and very well painted (except I rubbed off
the "Built in 2001 by Lionel"). I don't want to sound
like I'm griping here, but I think that when other people
say Lionel isn't serious about S gauge, they are right.
They are definitely right.

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16680 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Bucking Bronco
Hey Gang,
Need learned wisdom?
My SW-9 began acting strange a month ago. It bucked and skipped along and at
times wouldn't run without a prod or 2--thought I had dirty track or wheel
pickup. Come to find that a wire is loose on one truck. I found that out
after removing one truck frame and probing in there with a toothpick (I
thought I had a bad wiper or something). Is this an average repair job--for
soldering? I hesitate to take more of this finely made machine apart
especially when it appears as tight as Fort Knox? The wire probably got
severed in one of those brief sizzlings you hear when it derails--I just
didn't cut the power soon enough? Please lend any support. I am not about
to take up a warranty issue when I have to pay shipping at my expense along
with the other hassles of packaging.

John R
Group: S-Trains Message: 16681 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 1/16/2002
Subject: Flyionel with O Gauge touch
My contribution on the subject:

Future Ebay S gauge listing someday------

"Unique and very collectible O Gauge stock car (Stable of Champions) with
American Flyer trucks mounted. Rare Flyer addition to your layout" ???????

JOHN R
Group: S-Trains Message: 16682 From: THOMAS E HILLERY Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1286
To Keith
.... While you stay home and play trains she goes out and works.. who is
the smart one? T.H.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16683 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Visit
Hi all:
Any good stores in the Northern Virginia area? Know about those near
Frederick MD, beltway in MD, etc. Seem to remember one or two being
mentioned in VA?
Tx for info.
Rance Velapoldi
Group: S-Trains Message: 16684 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: plaster cloth
I note that a recent article in MR included the use of plaster cloth and
rock molds to make mountains. Any comments, experience etc. on where
one can get plaster cloth, how it worked, words of wisdom, etc.
Appreciate it before I try to buy some.
Tx in Advance
Rance Velapoldi
Group: S-Trains Message: 16685 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: Huh?
Greenberg's guide Vol III published in 1992 has it as $3700 for exc.
Rance

"Donald P. Abrams" wrote:

> $7,600 and there's still an hour to go? Am I missing something?
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1688549156
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16686 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: degrees
Is this affected by the parity rule?
Rance

Eugene Steffan wrote:

> Question: If an electrical engineer doesn't know which way the lectrons flow in a
> wire (except by man-made convention), how does he know if the trains are going
> forward or reverse?
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16687 From: Linda & Ted Weiler Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: "S" and other Hobby Shops in Fort Worth/Arlington/Dallas Area?
Bill,

Too bad you are not coming this weekend. The greater Dallas Area Train
Clubs are putting on a show in Plano (J.R's home??) this weekend. There
will be a Sn3, an American Flyer and a scale layout on display.

I know of three main shops that carry either American Flyer or 'S'.

Collectable Trains & Toys @ 109 Medallion Center Dallas has Lionel, K-Line
and Flyer including used. Also next door is Lone Star Toys which is
probably affiliated. From their ad, I would assume they have used stuff.

Discount Model Trains in Addison has a good stock of 'S' Helper.

Wild Bill's in Irving has Lionel and some Flyer. Also a great assortment of
die cast in 1:64th.

Hobby Maker in Bedford has Lionel.

Iron Horse Hobbies in Lewisville has a very limited supply of "S', but is
willing to order whatever you want.

I live just south of Denton, which is north of Dallas and tend to stay
around here if possible. I'll check for others at the show. Contact me off
line for directions if interested.

Ted
Group: S-Trains Message: 16688 From: af21115 Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: plaster cloth
You should be able to get it at any good crafts and art store. Its
not worth the price actually, but does work quite well. You can save
a bundle and get similar results by using old news papers.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16689 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: Bucking Bronco
Dear John,
Like all of our products, this incident is covered by the warranty. Just put it
in the original box and return with a note. We will repair and send back to you. I
purchased about $10,000.00 of repair parts for the SW-9 (I think we have used about
$100 worth and Mike still reminds me of that fact). I guess the one thing I would
have changed on this model is made the rear wire about 1/16" longer. We have had a
few (less than a dozen) SW-9s with the same symptoms.
Don

JRKRrdd@... wrote:

> Hey Gang,
> Need learned wisdom?
> My SW-9 began acting strange a month ago. It bucked and skipped along and at
> times wouldn't run without a prod or 2--thought I had dirty track or wheel
> pickup. Come to find that a wire is loose on one truck. I found that out
> after removing one truck frame and probing in there with a toothpick (I
> thought I had a bad wiper or something). Is this an average repair job--for
> soldering? I hesitate to take more of this finely made machine apart
> especially when it appears as tight as Fort Knox? The wire probably got
> severed in one of those brief sizzlings you hear when it derails--I just
> didn't cut the power soon enough? Please lend any support. I am not about
> to take up a warranty issue when I have to pay shipping at my expense along
> with the other hassles of packaging.
>
> John R

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 16690 From: mlmarmer Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: Huh?
Hi Don and all,

That is a very hard set to find, especially in that condition. One set was
sold a few years ago in the state of Washington for $10,000. I couldn't be
happier for that person who won it, because he loves AF so much and has
great knowledge of American Flyer.

I am very lucky to have that set that my father purchased in 1958 and still
have it.

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald P. Abrams" <donabrams@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:55 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Huh?


> $7,600 and there's still an hour to go? Am I missing something?
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1688549156
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16691 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: GREENBERG VALUES
Have you checked out the values for AF in the 2002
edition of Greenbergs guide? Seems a little on the low
end to me. Items seem to decrease in value year over
year. I only wish I could buy at some of the pricing
shown! Any of you train traders with an opinion on how
these prices vrs reality? We have a GATS show here
in this weekend. I know there will be some who come to
my table with book in hand demanding they pay no more
than the Greenbergs listed price.

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16692 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: The Flyonel Conundrum
Dear Track Gang:
I haven't made any friends here with my position on the new Flyer offerings.
If anyone doesn't remember, I was the one urging that we buy the new stuff
in order to stimulate big L into getting into S gauge in a big way. It has
been repeatedly pointed out to me that Lionel management has made empty
promises before. They promise dessert if we'll eat our spinach, but the pie
never comes.

Mike Vana, most recently, said, "I think that S scale is well enough
established that nobody should feel they have to buy everything just to keep
the new products coming." It's a good and valid point. At any other time,
I would agree with it and with all the others who have told me "that every
poor AF enthusiast that keeps on buying the 'Same old Stuff' is his own
worst enemy when it come to convincing 'L' to make truly new and exciting
AF", and "If they can sell everything they can make (like they did a few
years back with UP, NP & MP PA sets) using
ancient tooling, there is no incentive to make things with new tooling" and
"We have all supported them over the years and the best years they had was
making collectable repros of 50 year old trains." All valid points. There
were a lot more thoughtful replies as well, taken off-list, so I have not
attributed the authors here.

Here is where I was coming from. I have been on the tallest soap box for
the longest time preaching against putting any eggs at all in the Flyonel
basket. I wrote the treatise against the Conrail SD-60. I'm the one who
repeats the mantra, "Gilbert is dead, Flyer is dead". I have been
repeatedly taken to task for it by all the Flyer addicts who don't believe
in SHS or AM or any of the other manufacturers, guys who seem to believe
that one day their Moshiac, A.C. Gilbert will return and start making trains
for them again and all will be well. I have preached reality. Forget
Flyer, support the guys who support us. Better you put $100 into a Ballston
Locomotive shell than into Lionel's pocket, because all they care about is 0
gauge. So why did I do an about-face?

I see something here. I'm not even really sure what. Maybe it's what Dick
Maddox and his new successor, William L. Bracy, have said in public. The
talk of developing S gauge, of investing in Flyer seemed different, more
genuine. I think they finally want to expand their customer base and stop
ignoring a viable income center. I think they may have tapped out much of
what is new in 0. They seem to be making more buildings and accessories
than new trains. MTH is in the same boat. They've built all the steam
monsters and all the big name trains. Now they are making obscure stuff,
rail inspection cars, oddball turbines, roadnames nobody knows, boxcars with
graffitti and show through new paint with fallen flags underneath. They've
built freelance ghost trains and things that have never rolled on rails in
prototype. Now they are concentrating on electronics, refining and
polishing a new TMCC. They have accomplished what was never achieved during
the original golden era of trains. They have reached the end of the line.

Sure, there is always more stuff to make, but all the biggest, baddest and
most desirable stuff is sitting on shelves waiting to be bought. It's a
glutted market. Even well heeled 0 gauge boomers can only afford one
fifteen hundred dollar engine at a time. And the customers for all this
stuff are already members of the choir. No mom's and dad's are out there
buying these mastodons for Johnny-boy. It's all the same old men they've
been selling to for years. Lionel needs a new market, and we're it.

This is the moment. All the B.S. of the past notwithstanding, I believe
that we are about to see an inrush of goodies into the S gauge world that
will exist without parallel for all time. I believe that when Lionel
focuses on S, Mike Wolf will greenlight stuff he has in development. That
will be all the impetus needed to bring the smaller outfits on board. It
may not last long, but it will be great.

I've been told that I'm not a realist, I'm a dreamer. Guilty as charged.
But with an explanation. When I was a kid I had these American Flyer
catalogs and they promoted dreaming. Sorry. Well, not really sorry. I see
the possibilities and allow myself to envision the results. I could be
wrong. If I am, you have another Geep, with a very pretty paint job, on
your layout and you're out a few bucks that could have bought you a better
detailed, more prototypically correct something or other. If I'm right
though, then this is the moment to seize the day.

There is a lot of stuff I want that's already out or coming soon. Notable
among these is the SHS steamer due out this year. I am already stretched
financially and can hardly afford more trains. I could just say "Enough,
I'm happy with what I've got in this market. SHS and AM and all the others
already make more than I could use." But where's the growth in that?
Where's the excitement of something new and wonderful? By extension, I
could say, "I've got enough trains, I don't need to buy any more at all." I
do have a lot of trains. I could just quit buying and play with what I
have. My wife would like that. What would that attitude do for the future
of the gauge, or for the S-manufacturers and suppliers we know and love.

I think that this is our moment. I think that no matter how disillusioned
we have become with Lionel from their past actions, we are about to see a
flurry of activity that will benefit us all. If we do nothing else, let's
at least let it happen. Let's stop slamming big L in print. They listen.
Let's be supportive. Let's talk about what we'd like to see them produce
and let's let them know we want them producing. Ron Bashista was quoted as
saying that he killed the full length California Zephyr project because guys
in this and the scale list took pot shots at it for their own entertainment
and said they would not buy it. I know that many of you quarrel with that
notion, but, clearly, verbal and written criticism can be the weight that
topples the shaky structure. Good plays close at the critic's bad notice,
all the time.

So I'm holding my tongue. I will definitely buy the checkerboard tower and
the diesel, even though Rock Island never had dynamic brakes and it's really
a GP-7 being called a GP-9. I'll give the PA set a once over, no promises.
I love the boxcars, so I will get those. Here's a big smiley face :0) to
show I'm happy for all the wonderful stuff being made by everybody, and I'll
look to the future with optimism and enthusiasm.

Don't carp . . . Carpe diem!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16693 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: The Flyonel Conundrum
To attract growth in the market inexpensive starter
train sets are needed! I know these sets must be loss
leaders, but they can "hook" a customer. Lionel knows
that as well as MTH. I am sure their profit margin on
a starter set must be very low if no 0! I can find an
MTH GS4 Daylight set with Proto Sound 2, remote
control, track, and power for less than $300.00. This
is less than the cost of most of the individual Rail
King engines you can buy, but if you have a good time
with an impressive starter set, you will buy more! (
Both Lionel and MTH have starter sets that retail for
less than $200, and have an operating horn or whistle)

Take a look at the MTH Starter sets catalog. The first
two pages are on why this is a great learning toy
offering hands on experience for the young ( or old)
railroader rather than a "virtual" experience on a
computer. This develops interest for Dad or Mom into
purchase of a train set. This is the type of stuff
which can make the hobby grow. Broaden your target
audience past the boomer market that was fortunate
enough to have American Flyer as a kid. Lionel and MTH
are big companies. Both are in business to make money.
Positive encouragement that tells them if they build
it we will purchase and promote is needed. Send an
email today to Lionel and MTH and ask them to focus on
S gauge, market some starter sets and cars. Michael



--- Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...> wrote:
> Dear Track Gang:
> I haven't made any friends here with my position on
> the new Flyer offerings.
> If anyone doesn't remember, I was the one urging
> that we buy the new stuff
> in order to stimulate big L into getting into S
> gauge in a big way. It has
> been repeatedly pointed out to me that Lionel
> management has made empty
> promises before. They promise dessert if we'll eat
> our spinach, but the pie
> never comes.
>
> Mike Vana, most recently, said, "I think that S
> scale is well enough
> established that nobody should feel they have to buy
> everything just to keep
> the new products coming." It's a good and valid
> point. At any other time,
> I would agree with it and with all the others who
> have told me "that every
> poor AF enthusiast that keeps on buying the 'Same
> old Stuff' is his own
> worst enemy when it come to convincing 'L' to make
> truly new and exciting
> AF", and "If they can sell everything they can make
> (like they did a few
> years back with UP, NP & MP PA sets) using
> ancient tooling, there is no incentive to make
> things with new tooling" and
> "We have all supported them over the years and the
> best years they had was
> making collectable repros of 50 year old trains."
> All valid points. There
> were a lot more thoughtful replies as well, taken
> off-list, so I have not
> attributed the authors here.
>
> Here is where I was coming from. I have been on the
> tallest soap box for
> the longest time preaching against putting any eggs
> at all in the Flyonel
> basket. I wrote the treatise against the Conrail
> SD-60. I'm the one who
> repeats the mantra, "Gilbert is dead, Flyer is
> dead". I have been
> repeatedly taken to task for it by all the Flyer
> addicts who don't believe
> in SHS or AM or any of the other manufacturers, guys
> who seem to believe
> that one day their Moshiac, A.C. Gilbert will return
> and start making trains
> for them again and all will be well. I have
> preached reality. Forget
> Flyer, support the guys who support us. Better you
> put $100 into a Ballston
> Locomotive shell than into Lionel's pocket, because
> all they care about is 0
> gauge. So why did I do an about-face?
>
> I see something here. I'm not even really sure
> what. Maybe it's what Dick
> Maddox and his new successor, William L. Bracy, have
> said in public. The
> talk of developing S gauge, of investing in Flyer
> seemed different, more
> genuine. I think they finally want to expand their
> customer base and stop
> ignoring a viable income center. I think they may
> have tapped out much of
> what is new in 0. They seem to be making more
> buildings and accessories
> than new trains. MTH is in the same boat. They've
> built all the steam
> monsters and all the big name trains. Now they are
> making obscure stuff,
> rail inspection cars, oddball turbines, roadnames
> nobody knows, boxcars with
> graffitti and show through new paint with fallen
> flags underneath. They've
> built freelance ghost trains and things that have
> never rolled on rails in
> prototype. Now they are concentrating on
> electronics, refining and
> polishing a new TMCC. They have accomplished what
> was never achieved during
> the original golden era of trains. They have
> reached the end of the line.
>
> Sure, there is always more stuff to make, but all
> the biggest, baddest and
> most desirable stuff is sitting on shelves waiting
> to be bought. It's a
> glutted market. Even well heeled 0 gauge boomers
> can only afford one
> fifteen hundred dollar engine at a time. And the
> customers for all this
> stuff are already members of the choir. No mom's
> and dad's are out there
> buying these mastodons for Johnny-boy. It's all the
> same old men they've
> been selling to for years. Lionel needs a new
> market, and we're it.
>
> This is the moment. All the B.S. of the past
> notwithstanding, I believe
> that we are about to see an inrush of goodies into
> the S gauge world that
> will exist without parallel for all time. I believe
> that when Lionel
> focuses on S, Mike Wolf will greenlight stuff he has
> in development. That
> will be all the impetus needed to bring the smaller
> outfits on board. It
> may not last long, but it will be great.
>
> I've been told that I'm not a realist, I'm a
> dreamer. Guilty as charged.
> But with an explanation. When I was a kid I had
> these American Flyer
> catalogs and they promoted dreaming. Sorry. Well,
> not really sorry. I see
> the possibilities and allow myself to envision the
> results. I could be
> wrong. If I am, you have another Geep, with a very
> pretty paint job, on
> your layout and you're out a few bucks that could
> have bought you a better
> detailed, more prototypically correct something or
> other. If I'm right
> though, then this is the moment to seize the day.
>
> There is a lot of stuff I want that's already out or
> coming soon. Notable
> among these is the SHS steamer due out this year. I
> am already stretched
> financially and can hardly afford more trains. I
> could just say "Enough,
> I'm happy with what I've got in this market. SHS
> and AM and all the others
> already make more than I could use." But where's
> the growth in that?
> Where's the excitement of something new and
> wonderful? By extension, I
> could say, "I've got enough trains, I don't need to
> buy any more at all." I
> do have a lot of trains. I could just quit buying
> and play with what I
> have. My wife would like that. What would that
> attitude do for the future
> of the gauge, or for the S-manufacturers and
> suppliers we know and love.
>
> I think that this is our moment. I think that no
> matter how disillusioned
> we have become with Lionel from their past actions,
> we are about to see a
> flurry of activity that will benefit us all. If we
> do nothing else, let's
> at least let it happen. Let's stop slamming big L
> in print. They listen.
> Let's be supportive. Let's talk about what we'd
> like to see them produce
> and let's let them know we want them producing. Ron
> Bashista was quoted as
> saying that he killed the full length California
> Zephyr project because guys
> in this and the scale list took pot shots at it for
> their own entertainment
> and said they would not buy it. I know that many of
> you quarrel with that
> notion, but, clearly, verbal and written criticism
> can be the weight that
> topples the shaky structure. Good plays close at
> the critic's bad notice,
> all the time.
>
> So I'm holding my tongue. I will definitely buy the
> checkerboard tower and
> the diesel, even though Rock Island never had
> dynamic brakes and it's really
> a GP-7 being called a GP-9. I'll give the PA set a
> once over, no promises.
> I love the boxcars, so I will get those. Here's a
> big smiley face :0) to
> show I'm happy for all the wonderful stuff being
> made by everybody, and I'll
> look to the future with optimism and enthusiasm.
>
> Don't carp . . . Carpe diem!
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
=== message truncated ===


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Group: S-Trains Message: 16694 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: 583 Magnetic Crane Magnet rewire
I have looked in GReenbergs and K-lines Flyer repair
manual, and in the FAQ page but can't find a diagram
for attachment of the wires in the magnet of the
magnetic crane. Can anyone tell me where I might find
such a diagram? I have all the pieces, just the wires
have been pulled from the magnet. Thanks!

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Group: S-Trains Message: 16695 From: Mark Preman Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: 20% Off Sale
Your faithful list sponsor here.........

After a great holiday season, it is time to clean out
some of the dead wood in the inventory. Take 20% off
of anything on the "FOR SALE" list between now and the
end of January. FOR LIST MEMBERS ONLY! Ask for the
discount when we talk so I know you are from the list!

Happy New Year to all! Mark

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

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Group: S-Trains Message: 16696 From: David Dewey Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: degrees
This reminds me of a statement made by an old tracker,
"You can tell a train by its tracks, but you can't tell which way it went."
;-)
S'
David
Group: S-Trains Message: 16697 From: David Dewey Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: The Flyonel Conundrum
I too, am a Dreamer. I believe that S is the most ideal scale for both
newbies and "old hats." I believe it has the greatest potential for being a
toy and being a scale model. Why S and not O or HO, or other stuff? Because
of the size. HO is just too small for small hands and old eyes, O is too big
for most people's space considerations.
Now before I make the next statement, I want to be clear that I don't care
who does it, I am not putting any of our wonderful, or even frustrating,
manufactures down, nor pointing at any one of them. S NEEDS a Discount
Retailer presence--a RTR-in-one-box train set that has appeal to the young
kids and is affordable for the parents to consider. We missed a great
opportunity this Christmas, the Harry Potter Express. It doesn't matter what
you think of the books, the demand was there, and someone filled it, as I
saw them in HO at Wal-Mart for some $60. Yes, that's probably too cheap for
a QUALITY S product, but I believe in the consumer's ability to recognize
quality, and I think a well-detailed (not super-detailed w/ wire rails,
etc.) S set for under $150 would have stood a good chance at beating out
that HO one.
The main point there was the rapid response that large-production
companies can make to a changing market. Until S can get some of that
ability, it will, sadly, remain a minor player in both the toytrain and
Model Railroad field. Not as minor as it has been, but not a major. I just
heard about someone who got into model railroading and went O because HO was
too small, and no one ever showed him S. I KNOW he would have gone with S if
he'd seen the new stuff that is out there, as he thinks O is a bit too
big--but the $$$ commitment has been made already!
Now for a pointed thought. Big L has the tooling for rugged toy trains in
S. They also have the marketing contacts for major discounters. They also
(sorry, it's true) have the national name recognition. They, more than
anyone, have the potential ability to put that starter set out and in
Toy-r-Us and similar "Big Hitters." Maybe with MTH and the other guys
nailing them in O, they might look at their former "Competition Elimination"
purchase as their new major market. Sadly, their past performance doesn't
bode well for that dream.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16698 From: roy inman Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: LAF
An open question to the list:
Just exactly what would those of you who have complained about the Lionel
Flyer offerings want Lionel to do?
I mean this as a serious question (well, as serious as we can get over toy
trains).
I did not have Flyer as kid, so the only up close and personal experience I
have with it is the stuff I see/sometimes buy now. And for the most part it
is either priced high or operates poorly or both. Same can be said for old
Lionel and Marx.
I have only three LAF passenger sets, one GP-9NP duo and a bunch of cars. In
every case IN MY EXPERIENCE, the new LAF works better with less tinkering
than my 40-50 year old equipment. The experience of others, as noted on this
list, may differ.
But those bad experiences are not limited to LAF.
I partner with a local train shop, wherein he provides the O gauge
equipment, (because that is all he sells) and I set up and run a layout for
corporate events and suchlike. We sometimes have six or so gigs a year; not
much but helps support my train habit.
And I can tell you I have a multitude of problems with MTH (especially the
previous generation of track, ProtoSound and transformers). Sometimes no
matter what, the darn cars won't stay coupled-brand new right out of the
box. For instance, the $700 MTH Veranda Turbines came from the factory with
a bent undercarriage and wouldn't even run around the track. All were
recalled and fixed, but it was frustrating the night of the rather large
event I tell you. (I know, I know-test it first Roy.) Other types of
problems with Lionel O, but generally not to the extent of MTH. 3rd Rail
high end steam engines, in my experience, require at least some tweaking to
get them to work.
IMHO, Lionel is not giving short shrift to Flyer in terms of quality: All
their equipment has the occasional problem.
About the only equipment we have found to be virtually hassle-free is the
Atlas O gauge stuff. Beautifully detailed and it works right out of the box.
So, back to my question at the top of the show:
What do you want?
Should Lionel continue to try and "recreate an era," to give us baby boomers
something to reminisce about? Should L try and "reinvent the line," and give
us an SHS/AF version in Flyer skin? Should they maybe do stuff that ACG
never did, but put the AF name on it? And is that heresy?
Should L maybe produce a scale version of Flyer to try and bridge the gap
(chasm?) between high rail and scale?
What???
Respectfully :)
Roy Inman
Group: S-Trains Message: 16699 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: LAF
I thought LAF meant laugh. Well the truth
is that original American Flyer included
steam engines that still run great for most
of us. What was lacking was scale like F3
and GP9 and on. Flyonel is just repainting
the ALCO repros. Flyonel did come out
with some later GP series engines.

What is missing is starter sets with steam
or diesel power, track, transformers at
starter prices. Flyonel does not want to
undermine their "O" starter sets and build
up American Flyer 2 rail S gauge track.

Most prices for their American Flyer line is
higher than "O" so as to keep the kids
and dads buying "O". They complain when
Flyer doesn't sell well because they are
only pitching to the old Flyer operators
and collectors. Most new S Gaugers are
buying AM, SHS or going to scale.
Check out the great AM & SHS starter sets.
Still waiting for new low cost steam.

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn
NASG Secretary
http://www.jesusiscoming.com
><///> ><///> ><///> ><///> ><///>




roy inman wrote:

> An open question to the list:
> Just exactly what would those of you who have complained about the Lionel
> Flyer offerings want Lionel to do?
> I mean this as a serious question (well, as serious as we can get over toy
> trains).
> I did not have Flyer as kid, so the only up close and personal experience I
> have with it is the stuff I see/sometimes buy now. And for the most part it
> is either priced high or operates poorly or both. Same can be said for old
> Lionel and Marx.
> I have only three LAF passenger sets, one GP-9NP duo and a bunch of cars. In
> every case IN MY EXPERIENCE, the new LAF works better with less tinkering
> than my 40-50 year old equipment. The experience of others, as noted on this
> list, may differ.
> But those bad experiences are not limited to LAF.
> I partner with a local train shop, wherein he provides the O gauge
> equipment, (because that is all he sells) and I set up and run a layout for
> corporate events and suchlike. We sometimes have six or so gigs a year; not
> much but helps support my train habit.
> And I can tell you I have a multitude of problems with MTH (especially the
> previous generation of track, ProtoSound and transformers). Sometimes no
> matter what, the darn cars won't stay coupled-brand new right out of the
> box. For instance, the $700 MTH Veranda Turbines came from the factory with
> a bent undercarriage and wouldn't even run around the track. All were
> recalled and fixed, but it was frustrating the night of the rather large
> event I tell you. (I know, I know-test it first Roy.) Other types of
> problems with Lionel O, but generally not to the extent of MTH. 3rd Rail
> high end steam engines, in my experience, require at least some tweaking to
> get them to work.
> IMHO, Lionel is not giving short shrift to Flyer in terms of quality: All
> their equipment has the occasional problem.
> About the only equipment we have found to be virtually hassle-free is the
> Atlas O gauge stuff. Beautifully detailed and it works right out of the box.
> So, back to my question at the top of the show:
> What do you want?
> Should Lionel continue to try and "recreate an era," to give us baby boomers
> something to reminisce about? Should L try and "reinvent the line," and give
> us an SHS/AF version in Flyer skin? Should they maybe do stuff that ACG
> never did, but put the AF name on it? And is that heresy?
> Should L maybe produce a scale version of Flyer to try and bridge the gap
> (chasm?) between high rail and scale?
> What???
> Respectfully :)
> Roy Inman
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16700 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: LAF PART II
We have asked Flyonel to produce
modern era Genesis, high speed
Amtrak or European trains in
S. How about SD 60s or Dash 8?
First they would have to create a
new breed of S Gaugers since most
of us model the 40s, 50s and 60s.
I put the Disney Monorail on my
prototypical 50s layout and it just
doesn't have the right look. If I build a
21st century layout what do I run with
the monorail?

That's the real issue. Can we develop
a new generation of S Gaugers if anybody
makes starter sets with modern era
rolling stock? Most young people I know
have no interest in railroads only cars
and computers.

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn
NASG Secretary
http://www.jesusiscoming.com
><///> ><///> ><///> ><///> ><///>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16701 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: FAMILY HERITAGE TRAIN SHOW
The North Penn S Gaugers will be operating
their S gauge modular layout at the Family
Heritage Restaurant in Franconia, PA on
Friday, 1/25/02 from 5:00pm to 9:00pm
and Saturday, 1/26/02 from 9:00am to 1:00pm.
Admission is free. Family Heritage is
located on Route 113 at Allentown Road
just Northwest of Philadelphia. Easy access
from the Lansdale Interchange of the
Northeast extension of the PA turnpike.

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn
http://www.jesusiscoming.com
><///> ><///> ><///> ><///> ><///>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16702 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: The Flyonel Conundrum
In response to David,

We thrassed this out 3 or 4 years ago.
We need a sugar daddy with several
hundred thousand dollars to underwrite
the drawings, mold and production of
a starter set in the quantity of 100,000
units for under $150. First the scale guys
will argue for a scale detailed engine
that they can kitbash. The hi-railers
won't agree on what engine. Yes we
have to get an S starter in front of the
public but our NASG doesn't have that
kind of money. Would we support
SHS or AM doing a modern era train
set? I would buy one and so would 50
or 100 of you so forget it. The public
wants battery operated toys to break
and throw away. Watch for the next
public issue like the Dale Ernhart
collectors train, etc.

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn
NASG Secretary
http://www.jesusiscoming.com
><///> ><///> ><///> ><///> ><///>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16703 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Reverse Unit
A few weeks ago I remember someone talking about removing reversing
units.

I need a reverse unit for a 342 and was hoping that someone had one I
could buy or trade for.

It doesn't have to be a perfect one I am willing to do some contact
finger replacement or repair work.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16704 From: erierailroad@aol.com Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Chionel Again
Originally I said I was not too happy with my AF being made in China, but
when I saw the 2002 line up I may have to eat my words and buy the Northern
Pacific boxcar and C&O boxcar! They are looking real good.

Jack
Group: S-Trains Message: 16705 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: The Flyonel Conundrum
This pretty much sums up my position. I agree with Chris'
perspective, and my actions will be much like those below.

Mark

__________________________________________________________________

So I'm holding my tongue. I will definitely buy the checkerboard
tower and
the diesel, even though Rock Island never had dynamic brakes and it's
really
a GP-7 being called a GP-9. I'll give the PA set a once over, no
promises.
I love the boxcars, so I will get those. Here's a big smiley face :0)
to
show I'm happy for all the wonderful stuff being made by everybody,
and I'll
look to the future with optimism and enthusiasm.

__________________________________________________________________
Group: S-Trains Message: 16706 From: IronHorse Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: plaster cloth
Actually you could make your own.
Get a bag of dry plaster and some scrap cloth. (worn out sheets?)
Force the plaster into the fabric by rubbing and scraping it in.
Make a frame to hold the form for your scenery. I use wire window screen
where the shape is fussy. Put the cloth on the form.
Use thinned latex paint. Flat colors. Green and browns and gray for rocky areas.
Spray it on the plaster cloth. The colors will blend into the plaster getting rid of
the white.
If the plaster ever cracks, no white will show because of the paint colors .
No paint sprayer? No problem. Paint the cloth with the flat colors. Use
a flour sifter to sift the plaster on while the paint is still wet.
Before the mix dries sprinkle on the various turf powdered items. Grass sand and
the like. It will stick on forever.
About the cloth I am sure another fabric may hold the plaster better than sheet
material.
If you are fussy experiment with different fabrics. Felt might work well.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 16707 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: The Flyonel Conundrum
Larry Jackman responds:
> How can Flyonel do any thing for "S" with 1940 tooling? You can make a
> million dollars worth of models off the old tooling and all you have is
> 1940 stuff. If they were really interested they would make new 2002
> tooling and produce new models.

That's been the whole point of all this discussion, Larry. Lionel has
promised new tooling, particularly in steam. This current offering is their
return to the gauge with a substantial number of items. Basically they have
a passenger set, a freight set ala carte, and an accessory. My point is
that they are once again gauging the market with an eye to expansion.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16708 From: Robert Wight Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Need help Making switches Automatic
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:01:04 -0800 (PST)

From: "robert wight" <bobgaylord@...>

Subject: Need help Making Switches Automatic

To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com



Does a dumm irishman with a PHD in hard knocks count
towards the poll?
Seriously, I need some advice. I checked the
archives and no luck. Doesnt mean it isnt there, just
means i didnt hit the right words. On my new layout I
have a elevated track. I want to make the switches
automatic. They sense when a train is coming one way
and stop the other. Am I as clear as mud? Any Ideas
the best way to go? Thanks. Happy Railroading?
Bob Wight

__________________________________________________



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Group: S-Trains Message: 16709 From: richgaj Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: LAF
Roy Inmann wrote:
An open question to the list:
Just exactly what would those of you who have complained about the
Lionel Flyer offerings want Lionel to do?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, as long as Roy is asking, I posted the following way back on
July 23 of last year. I still think it's appropriate.
===================================================================

With all the brouhaha-hah that's gone back and forth about what
Lionel should, shouldn't, did, didn't, might, might not do with the
American Flyer product line, I would like to offer some thoughts on
what would make me consider purchasing new American Flyer products by
Lionel again.

Let me reiterate that I am not a "true" American Flyer collector,
(matter of fact, I'm a scale guy) but in the past have purchased both
Gilbert and Lionel production that have struck my fancy, and now
confine my HiRail purchases to products from the "other" manufactures
that provide Flyer-compatible trains.

Note that I am not asking for specific products at this time. I
would expect the following from ANY manufacturer making a product
bearing the American Flyer brand before opening my wallet.

1) Get rid of that gawd-awful diesel power truck. Move the motor to
the center of the locomotive. I want to be able to accesss the gears
easily and remove wheelsets by removing a cover plate for servicing.
Dissect an American Models or S Helper Service diesel to see what I
mean.
2) The above would also hold true for any potential steam locomotive
drive mechanism. See how the American Models 4-6-2's are put
together for an example.
3) Bring that GP truck down to the correct wheelbase.
3A) I want a contemporary Flyer engine to run smooth and quiet, right
out of the box, no tinkering required.
3B) Think beyond the PA/PB, GP7/9/20 and EP5. (That's about as
specific as I'll get today.)
4) Forget putting Flyer trucks on Lionel's 0-27 cars.
5) Any potential new rolling stock should be at MINIMUM to the detail
level of "Classic" 50's Flyer. Lionel's "S" clone of the 0-27
caboose is a perfect example of how NOT to do it.
5A) In reality, at this point in time, I would expect to see some
greater detail on rolling stock without sacrificing durability. It
can be done, S Helper Service is doing it. Note: I'm not really
asking for fine scale models here, while "Classic" Flyer was well
done in it's day, it's time for American Flyer to evolve.
6) Less bulky freight truck sideframes.
7) For the most part, Lionel has been doing a decent job in
decoration, with a couple of exceptions. About the only thing I
would want here is to ensure the car or locomotive carries it's
prototype's number.
8) Exceptions in the above would be considered for bona-
fide "Classic" Flyer reproductions.

Now, I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for this to happen. If I
want Flyer-compatible HiRail today, American Models, S Helper, S
Scale America and Pacific Rail Shops can and do easily supply me. If
Lionel or "whomever" wants me to buy American Flyer products, "warmed
over Flyer" ain't gonna do it anymore.

Rich Gajnak
Group: S-Trains Message: 16710 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1288
In a message dated 1/17/02 12:51:59 PM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> I note that a recent article in MR included the use of plaster cloth and
> rock molds to make mountains. Any comments, experience etc. on where
> one can get plaster cloth, how it worked, words of wisdom, etc.
> Appreciate it before I try to buy some.
>

Rance, it is second to none in convenience and moldability BUT it is
expensive compared to other methods of creating scenery. You just roll off
the size piece you need for any particular spot and dip it in warm water and
drape it over your molding. You can push and pull it, wrinkle it etc. It
dries very hard and solid. you can then go over it with other plaster like
materials to build up, add, etc. (a good one is dry wall mud).

I use it (plaster cloth) almost exclusively, but then I guess I have more
money than brains....Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16711 From: roberte613@aol.com Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: plaster cloth
In a message dated 1/17/2002 2:52:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:
> Re: plaster cloth
>
I put a mountain on my layout this past Christmas using styrofoam and water
putty. Easy, cheap, quick, light weight, sturdy, paints well, easy to
landscape, and my trees punch right in. Plus...it looks really cool.

Robert E.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16712 From: John L. Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: plaster cloth
Perhaps you could get it from medical supply houses - they use something like that to
make casts.

af21115 wrote:

> You should be able to get it at any good crafts and art store. Its
> not worth the price actually, but does work quite well. You can save
> a bundle and get similar results by using old news papers.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16713 From: Mike Vana Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: What Lionel should do with AF
It was a very good question to ask:
What should Lionel do with American Flyer?

First off, they aren't selling to kids, so
upgrade the trains to be more scale and
accurate. If I never see another Geep with
those long wheelbase trucks, or freight cars
with those sintered iron wannabe trucks, I'll
be happy. Make several roadnames at once, not
just one or two a year. Do some homework -
there are plenty of books and magazines that
have the histories of locomotives and cars.
Conversely, that means not to make PA's and
dome cars for railroads that never had them.
Put accurate numbers on them, not catalog
numbers. (They may do that sometimes now.)
Make scale and hi-rail versions, AC and DC.
Make equipment with body mounted couplers,
not truck mounted ones. The more realistic
they make the trains, the more likely they
will sell, and make S gauge stronger. I
don't think Lionel thinks like a model
railroad company, as much as a collectibles
company, even in O gauge, and even with
the cheap stuff.

Second, if they do want to sell to kids,
they should make something like Franklins
and Frontiersman sets, or even make the
old "Casey Jones" 4-4-0's and cheap cars.
Remember, this is for kids, not adults or
collectors. Casey Jones engines are pretty
durable. They look like something for kids.

Third, Lionel should make S gauge track,
too, and realistic track at that!

Fourth, do something besides use the same
old molds or adapt O gauge cars to S gauge.
It was an SD40-2 that they were going to make.
If that was made, I may have bought it, as long
as it wasn't toy-like, such as no center wheels
or pilots that swiveled with the trucks, like
their O gauge. I'm an adult now. I expect trains
now to be better than what I had when I was a kid.

When scale modelers look at what Lionel produces
and say they want some, then Lionel will be on the
right track for S gauge.

For the record, I have equipment made by Lionel,
including four freight cars (Union Oil and orange
Shell tank cars, a Chessie System caboose, and a
recent Christmas boxcar), SP, UP, MP, and Erie
passenger sets, B&O PA1's, and a Silver Flash B
unit. The Shell tank car has been converted to link
couplers and trucks. (Surely I'm not the only
one who has done that.) All the PA's were converted
to DC. The B&O and SP powered A's have newer can
motors. The B&O broke down the first day I had it,
and the SP not long after. I prefer DC, and without
reverse units, operation is more trouble-free. I
had several more freight cars and an NP B unit,
but those were traded off. I have been collecting
Gilbert Flyer, but own other S scale trains, plus
O, HO, and a little bit of G and HOn3. I started
out with S, and it is still my favorite scale.

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16714 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: degrees
Let's see: Grad country high school (we had concrete floors, not dirt),
National Oil Fuel Institute Graduate Service Technician, Licensed Master
Plumber, U S Navy
Desalinization "C" Schools grad, and the NTTM shops, guess that makes me at
least a Master of Flushology, with dual minors in Comfort Control and
ThreeRailRepairology (Two rail stuff ran forever)
Jim Lyle



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16715 From: Tom Young Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Plaster cloth
A relatively expensive way to do scenery compared to plaster soaked
paper towels or newspaper, I use it for touch only now after going thru
many rolls, the extra cost is for the convenience, just dip it in water
and apply, it does work well. You can buy it at Woodland Scenics
http://www.woodlandscenics.com/ or at http://scenicexpress.com/ who you
would probably have to call, they have a limited web site. 1 800
234-9995, ask for their catalogue.
Have fun, Tom
Group: S-Trains Message: 16716 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: plaster cloth
I use the foam method just about exclusively now. It works especially
well for scenery on modules, which you want lightweight and gets a
little wear and tear in setups amd teardowns. Easy to repair any dings
with a little plaster, spot of paint and some new Woodland Scenics
grass.

roberte613@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 1/17/2002 2:52:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:
> > Re: plaster cloth
> >
> I put a mountain on my layout this past Christmas using styrofoam and water
> putty. Easy, cheap, quick, light weight, sturdy, paints well, easy to
> landscape, and my trees punch right in. Plus...it looks really cool.
>
> Robert E.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 16717 From: Scott Brown Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: degrees
I think we need some balance here. So I will have to stand up for the blue
collar members on our list.
After earning a music scholarship and graduating from Valley Forge Military
Academy (high school), I decided to move back to sunny California and become
a rich rock star. Failing that venture and several others, I find myself 25
years farther down the road (45 years old now) working as a paramedic in
Washington DC. I hold a paramedic licenses Nationaly as well as DC,
Maryland, and Virginia. I also hold the title of "husband" to the same woman
for 17 years and "father" of 2 boys and 1 girl. I do not hold any college
degree.

Scott Brown
Atlantic Coast S Gaugers
Washington & Old Dominion Division



----- Original Message -----
From: <WJJIM@...>
To: <djdewey@...>; <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] degrees


> Let's see: Grad country high school (we had concrete floors, not dirt),
> National Oil Fuel Institute Graduate Service Technician, Licensed Master
> Plumber, U S Navy
> Desalinization "C" Schools grad, and the NTTM shops, guess that makes me
at
> least a Master of Flushology, with dual minors in Comfort Control and
> ThreeRailRepairology (Two rail stuff ran forever)
> Jim Lyle
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16718 From: TWesthelle@aol.com Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Degree Survey??
I for one, and maybe only myself, have no IDEA why this survey of degrees was
started or what relevance it has on our list in any way.
I learned a long time ago, a degree means that one has had the opportunity to
attend further education, which many don't, and by no means does it make one
better than another.
I find the latter to be way to prevalent amongst those who wish to profess
there degrees, which makes one wonder, what they in fact, learned at this
institute of higher learning.
I for one value the knowledge here, and the graciousness with which it is
shared.
That alone to me is the mark of a gentleman, not by which letter may follow
there name or title.
I, for one, feel this is a lot of BS, and Im not referring to a Bachelor of
Science.
Sorry for the negativity, but was my real feelings.
Thanks again for this FANTASTIC SGAUGE FORUM, and the many wonderful people
that subscribe to it.
Tom Westhelle
Oviedo, FL 32765
Group: S-Trains Message: 16719 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: degree survey explanation
What is the relevance of this survey to American Flyer trains???

For those who missed it, the thing started in a tongue in cheek way as a
test of whether Flyer trains, which were supposed to be scientificlearning
toys, had actually had any success in leading their users on into advanced
degrees.

The result seems to me to explode any myth that these trains led to
advanced academic achievement. Another bromide bites dirt!

In my case, I learned enough so that I can wire my apartment's phone lines.
I haven't invented a new kind of telephone yet though. Couldn't get the
right kind of string.

Tom Jarcho

P.S.: If the educational value of Flyer trains is a myth, is the idea
that toy trains promote closeness between fathers and sons a myth too???
Group: S-Trains Message: 16720 From: erierailroad@aol.com Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Check Ebay AF Monsanto Tank Car
This 48496 AF tank car sold for $835.00 on Ebay. Does anyone know why it is
so rare and sold for such a high price?

Heres the Ebay link;

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1687493671

Jack
Group: S-Trains Message: 16721 From: The Reis's Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: Check Ebay AF Monsanto Tank Car
The montsanto car was a special for the St. Louis S Spree in 95 according to
Greenbergs 2001. The white version said $85 and the orange version $425. I
assume this is a special color small run sold at the convention auction or
only for the banquet or as rewards for the people who worked on the
convention or something. In TCA conventions they have special versions
(different color, different labeling, something) of about 50 of the
convention cars they give some away as prizes at the banquet and auction off
some. These go for extremely high prices. I assume this orange version is
one of these special cars and it is supposedly from Richard Keugn collection
which may add to value if documented. So much for collector specials, I
gotta go run trains.

Eric Reis
Kenmore, Washington

-----Original Message-----
From: erierailroad@... [mailto:erierailroad@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 8:36 PM
To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Check Ebay AF Monsanto Tank Car

This 48496 AF tank car sold for $835.00 on Ebay. Does anyone know why it is
so rare and sold for such a high price?

Heres the Ebay link;

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1687493671

Jack

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16722 From: David Dewey Date: 1/17/2002
Subject: Re: degree survey explanation & AF learning value
Tom,
As someone so graciously pointed out, a degree does not indicate a
level of knowledge, just that one had an opportunity to go to advanced
schooling. My Grandfather didn't even have a high school diploma, but he was
well-read, could speak a few languages, including enough Chinese to be able
to order in SF China town when it wasn't a tourist thing, and ran his own
business. I think he was a learned man.
So, getting back to AF being a scientific learning toy, I would have to
say, emphatically, YES! I learned a lot of basic electricity playing with
mine, as well as a lot of other problem-solving skills. Designing a layout
requires learning stuff!
I don't know about the Bonding thing though, my Dad help guide me in a
few things, but the trains were mostly "my thing." However, we are
well-bonded with (I think) much mutual respect, and I know I get lots of
support from him (and Mom). Did AF help with that?? Too many variables!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16723 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: degree survey explanation
Hi Tom:
Agree with you comment on degrees, it was tongue in cheek. Society as we practice it
is humanity in all its glorious forms. As to second question, only if the father
lets the kids "play" with it (which leads to the need for some starter sets, etc.)
Lacking starter sets, it probably shouldn't matter, "it's only money" ho ho!
Rance

jarcho@... wrote:

> What is the relevance of this survey to American Flyer trains???
>
> For those who missed it, the thing started in a tongue in cheek way as a
> test of whether Flyer trains, which were supposed to be scientificlearning
> toys, had actually had any success in leading their users on into advanced
> degrees.
>
> The result seems to me to explode any myth that these trains led to
> advanced academic achievement. Another bromide bites dirt!
>
> In my case, I learned enough so that I can wire my apartment's phone lines.
> I haven't invented a new kind of telephone yet though. Couldn't get the
> right kind of string.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> P.S.: If the educational value of Flyer trains is a myth, is the idea
> that toy trains promote closeness between fathers and sons a myth too???
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16724 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: Degrees
I am not sure if this can be seen with our Yahoo S Train List.


qtxmojxyqa@... wrote:

>
>
> University Degree Program
>


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1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16725 From: af21115 Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: degree survey explanation
To answer the basic questions as they are explained here I'd say
absolutely, American Flyer trains were educational, at least to me.
So were Erector sets and many other great Gilbert toys. Put into
perspective, they did a hell of a lot for me than todays videos games
are doing for todays kids. The video games teach them nothing more
than hand eye coordination. The older toys taught a basic useful
skill in some way, many of todays toys do nothing of the sort. I
definitely feel that I am better off today because my parents picked
toys with a purpose for us when we were smaller. Tool kits, AF
Trains, Erector sets, Lincoln Logs. Toys that made me think! These
basic skills of reasoning that I learned from actually sitting and
thinking about how to assemble a car from that erector set, or how to
lay a track plan out so it worked and made sense helped me to use my
head in school. So I'd say yes these toys did help me then and in
later years.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16726 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: Degrees
I ain't got to show no stinking badges!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16727 From: crustyfour Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: degree survey explanation
--- In S-Trains@y..., jarcho@r... wrote:

> P.S.: If the educational value of Flyer trains is a myth, is the
idea that toy trains promote closeness between fathers and sons a myth
too???

I for one see a closeness with by sons. It had been over 35 years
since I enjoyed my AF trains. Now that I have brought them out again,
my sons - age 13 & 16 are really enjoying them (much more than their
HO set). We have decided to build a 4x8 layout together. This is
the first thing my 16 year old and I have had in common in a long
time. So yes, they do promote closeness.

As for the degree discussion. My only comment is that all types of
people and backgrounds add perspective and flavor to every discussion.
My "degree" came by more than 20 years in the US Navy. Earned by long
family seperations, 24 hour work days, no sleep, more conflicts, peace
keeping missions and wars than I can remember. The letters that
follow my name mean more to me than anything that could possibly be
earned in a classroom.

Steve Blancard, USN (Ret).
Group: S-Trains Message: 16728 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: degree survey explanation & AF learning value
David Dewey said:
>My Grandfather didn't even have a high school diploma, but he was
>well-read, could speak a few languages, including enough Chinese to be able
>to order in SF China town when it wasn't a tourist thing, and ran his own
>business. I think he was a learned man.

Very wealthy, too, if I remember right. I read about him when I was a kid.
By the way, what ever became of the Beagle boys?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16729 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: degree survey explanation
I wondered what that was all about
and if anybody was taking a tally
to see how many brains ran trains.
As a boy I liked the scale detail
of AF. I was drawing house plans
and building scale model houses
while running my AF through the
villages I created. Today after many
years of college but no degree I have
been licensed to practice architecture
for 30 years. Now I don't have time
to build scenery for my layout but that
day may yet come. About the Father-Son
thing my father died when I was 15.
He was more into Boy Scouts than trains
for bonding.

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn

jarcho@... wrote:
What is the relevance of this survey
to American Flyer trains???

For those who missed it, the thing
started in a tongue in cheek way as a
test of whether Flyer trains, which
were supposed to be scientific learning
toys, had actually had any success
in leading their users on into advanced
degrees.

The result seems to me to explode
any myth that these trains led to
advanced academic achievement.
Another bromide bites dirt!

In my case, I learned enough so that
I can wire my apartment's phone lines.
I haven't invented a new kind of
telephone yet though. Couldn't get the
right kind of string.

Tom Jarcho

P.S.: If the educational value of Flyer
trains is a myth, is the idea
that toy trains promote closeness
between fathers and sons a myth too???
Group: S-Trains Message: 16730 From: mlmarmer Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: Check Ebay AF Monsanto Tank Car
Jack,

The TM guide book list that piece as very rare and in excellent it is listed
at $725 plus 60% or MORE for Mint in Box which is $1160 or More. So at
$835, I would say that person got a good value for a highly desirable piece
of Lionel/American Flyer.

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD
----- Original Message -----
From: <erierailroad@...>
To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 11:35 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Check Ebay AF Monsanto Tank Car


> This 48496 AF tank car sold for $835.00 on Ebay. Does anyone know why it
is
> so rare and sold for such a high price?
>
> Heres the Ebay link;
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1687493671
>
> Jack
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16731 From: Neimanis,V. [NCR] Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Subject: 583 Magnetic Crane Magnet rewire
Checked all my half dozen manual without any success or reference about that
internal wiring.

Maybe someone has taken one apart before.

Maybe describe the pieces on the inside and that will provide a clue. Its
got to be simple.


V. Neimanis

_____________________________________________


Message: 13
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 07:56:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Christensen <semaphoresam@...>
Subject: 583 Magnetic Crane Magnet rewire

I have looked in GReenbergs and K-lines Flyer repair
manual, and in the FAQ page but can't find a diagram
for attachment of the wires in the magnet of the
magnetic crane. Can anyone tell me where I might find
such a diagram? I have all the pieces, just the wires
have been pulled from the magnet. Thanks!

__________________________________________________
Group: S-Trains Message: 16732 From: Horn, David Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: The way it works.
If you think buying products that you don't really want from Lionel will
pave the way for them to build the stuff you dream of you're nuts. After 20
years in American business, I can tell you that's not how it works. Money
talks, the rest walk. And don't give me any ginned up supply-and-demand
hoo-hah either, because in the long run you can not fake out or maneuver a
company, especially one the size of Lionel. In the end what prevails are
two simple principles of capitalism. The first is competition - - people
buy what best suits their fancy, needs, and/or budget. The rest sits on the
shelf for someone else or never gets purchased. The second is that
expanding markets drive competition. If you really want your beloved
American Flyer brand buoyed up to new heights some day, then 1) buy all the
S-gauge products you like and can afford, but do not buy anything you don't
really desire to own or operate, 2) get more people to do the same (i.e. do
your part to grow this hobby and the total dollar value of it as a segment
in the market).

Assuming Lionel is feeding us outdated junk that you don't really want to
buy, and you follow the above guidelines, here's what will happen. You
won't buy Flyonel, but you will buy SHS, PA Heritage, AM, etc. Now if that
were to be the end of it, yes, maybe Lionel will hang up its AF robe for
good. However, if you also do your part with guideline #2 and this hobby
grows in collective dollar value at the same time Lionel's product sales are
going to pot, but other manufacturers' cash registers are ringing. Bingo,
some bright Product Manager (been one) or Veep (am one) will notice that and
say, "Bag that old mold stuff, we're not selling squat. We need to give
this growing group that spends more money on their hobby every year
something they like." Trust me, no one likes to be left out of from their
share of a growing opportunity without a fight.

On the other hand, let's assume you buy Lionel products that you don't
really like or want, and none of us do anything about getting this hobby to
grow, here's what'll happen. Lionel Veep - - "Hey look at that, this
stagnant bunch of Flyer fanatics continues to buy virtually anything we sell
them including repainted stuff from 10, 15, even 50 years ago. You gotta
love the gross margin and operating income that die-hard niche contributes
to our P&L so we can invest in other opportunities." It's called, becoming
the company's cash cow. Not to mention, the cash flow your "clever" Lionel
purchases take away from other companies like SHS, or AM in the meantime.

Now, if you like the new Flyonel, buy the new Flyonel - - guideline #1 is
brand neutral. But if not, don't kid yourself that buying it will somehow
steer Lionel to "see the light."

Shovel all the coal in,
Gotta keep 'em rollin'

Dave
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16733 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: The Myth of Toy Trains (was Re: degree survey explanation)
Tom Jarcho, in one deft move, turns this degree thing on it's ear and poses
this puzzler:
> If the educational value of Flyer trains is a myth, is the idea
> that toy trains promote closeness between fathers and sons a myth too???

The educational value of trains proposed by Joshua Cowen was the concept of
learning to be in command of an empire. Lionel was proposing that a
three-rail pike taught leadership skills and provided a forum for learning
how to become a captain of industry. Cowen also hit the father/son bonding
thing pretty hard. I guess it was Dad who was supposed to take advantage of
the opportunity to relate the microcosm of the layout to the macrocosm of
the real world and be your tutor using trains as the learning aid. Heady
stuff, but aimed perfectly at our parent's generation, who were busy trying
to patch up the world following the war and to raise their kids to have a
better life than they did. Lots of theories on child-rearing were being
tested at a time that featured the emergence of Dr. Spock, whose powerful
influence is still felt. Our parents were "young moderns" who were looking
for new ways to relate to their kids and "make a future for them."

A.C. Gilbert had a more practical view than Josh Cowen. Gilbert toys were
meant to expose kids to the sciences and to industry. Erector sets,
chemistry sets and other learning tools complemented the trains in a broader
gestalt approach that let children learn about the world around them.
While Cowen never really specified what wonders a train layout would do
except teach valuable lessons, Gilbert specified that planning and
executing a train layout was a challenge to creativity and problem solving,
with results that could be seen immediately as the trains made their way
around. Gilbert sold pike planning tools intended to help a kid draw out a
blueprint of what he wanted before he built it. Sounds simple enough now,
but it's a big step for a kid who's used to taking a toy out of the box,
playing with it immediately and then leaving it for Mom to pick up. Trains
gave immediate gratification out of the box but long term gratification as
the foundation for a glorious artistic and technical production planned for
the future. Obviously, to carry all this out, you'd need some help from
Dad. All the kid targeted train literature of the period, whether it
featured Lionel or Flyer, stressed the family involvement aspects of layout
building. A train layout was to be a household feature, like a TV set. It
was there for everybody, but especially for the boys and their pipe-smoking
Dad.

My father was mostly interested in music; especially opera. He had little
interest in my stuff. When I was in my thirties, my father apologized for
being such an a**hole while I was growing up. (His words). Too little, too
late. But, as a young modern, he was absorbed in his interests and his own
development. For him, my interest in trains was a kid thing and beneath his
level. My father did not know how to hold a hammer. For years, I used to
give him tools for father's day, in the hopes he might be able to fix a
faucet or stop a leak. No chance. But he was the one who made the choice
for Flyer over Lionel. His reason: real railroads don't use three rails!
Now, we lived in Brooklyn. The subway system gets it's power from the third
rail. Everyone, even the most technically challenged artiste, knows this.
The Long Island Railroad, which we would take to visit friends on the
island, used a third rail. In our world, real trains DID have a third rail!
Go figure. Nonetheless, my trains were my private world, which I inhabited
alone. By edict, they only came out on Christmas eve and were put back in
their boxes and stored by about January 15 or so; Feb 1 at the latest.

I was always a college bound kid. There was to be no question about this.
I was not allowed to take any shop courses in high school. The closest I
came to industrial arts was "Mechanical Drafting". I got a degree (BA in
Communications/Filmmaking) from Hofstra after much tribulation and near
misses. But, what I learned best was electricity. I wish I had followed an
electrical engineering path, because it suits me. Somehow, with all the
white collar training, I find myself working, sporadically, in a blue collar
world of film electrics and technicians. And I keep reaching back to those
trains, as if there were an answer there.

Life has two choices. That's all, just two. Coke or Pepsi. White Collar
or Blue. Democrat or Republican. Schwinn or Columbia. Regular or Decaf.
Avis or Hertz. Lionel or American Flyer. Yes, there are a gazillion
choices, so don't flame me. But somehow, it always seems to come down to
two. Moreover, there seems to be a correlation between items chosen. I'm
Coke, Blue, Democrat, Columbia, Decaf, Avis, American Flyer. It's not about
being #1 or #2. Well, sometimes it is. Really, though, I think it's
whether you go with the flow, or go the alternate path. Everybody had a
Schwinn. Schwinn parts fit no other bikes. You even needed special
wrenches because they were not SAE standardized. They were #1, the
autocracy. Not my path. I guess that kind of thinking, passed down to me
by my father, is why I was a Flyer kid and am an S-gauger now. I'm just
true to my path. I share that much with the old man.


Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16734 From: Roy E. Plotnick Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: S-fest
COMING FALL S FEST IS LARGEST EVER!

The 2002 Fall S Fest, first sponsored by the Chicagoland Assn. of S Gaugers
in 1976 and held in Northlake, Illinois, will be held October 11-12, 2002
at the brand-new Tinley Park Convention Center, 18501 S. Harlem, Tinley
Park, Illinois 60477 (Phone 708-444-1100). The location is at Harlem Avenue
and Route 80. The club will have 17,688 square feet of exhibit space for
conventioneers, plus about 5,000 square feet of space for operating layouts
and displays. This has to be the largest area ever offered for the show in
the history of the event. A Holiday Inn (708-444-1100) with a restaurant
and parking for 8,000 cars is located next to the convention center. There
will be many amenities available to guests. Room rates are $110 a night
plus tax. Call for your rooms now and mention the convention!

For more information, bookmark the web site at:
http://www.trainweb.org/casg/sfest.html

-Roy Plotnick
Group: S-Trains Message: 16735 From: Roy E. Plotnick Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Dave Sengenberger
The Chicagoland Association of S-gaugers mourns the passing of long-time
club member and former secretary Dave Sengenberger. Dave passed away from
cancer on Saturday, Jan. 5. Condolences can be sent to his wife Margot
Sengenberger at 2736 E. Bonnie Brook Lane, Waukegan, IL. 60087.

Dave was a retired professor of geography.

-Roy
Group: S-Trains Message: 16736 From: Roy E. Plotnick Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: On PhDs etc
An 1999 article in the magazine American Scientist by the engineer Harry
Petroski specifically identified toy trains and Erector sets as
being crucial in training of a generation of engineers. They taught how
to take things apart and put them together, to see how they worked.
"These were the toys that built engineers." He also mentions that he had
S-gauge trains!

Ref: Petroski, Henry. Work and play. American Scientist, May-June 1999.

The current crop of engineering students lack this background, so some
university engineering departments have instituted. "remedial play" classes.

-Roy Plotnick (professor and thus a PhD, but relishes his time with train
guys who are not academics!)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16737 From: dwightlehnhoff Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Fathers & Trains
AF trains kept my father and I interacting through the years even
though during the teen years we disagreed on most anything else. I
did have an early interest in chemistry sets and microscopes. AF
trains still push me into a learning curve as I incorporate more
electronics. I have not evolved regarding the spagetti like
appearance of my wiring under neath the layout. My resolve to do
ultra clean right-hand cornered wire bundles lasts the first hour.
Aligator clips are of great benefit!\

Dwight
Group: S-Trains Message: 16738 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Time Sensitive Post -read now
By the time digest subscribers get this it will be over.

I just turned on the TV in time to hear a female announcer say:

" . . . can Flyer train set today on HGTV."

WHAT???

HGTV is the home and garden channel. Start your longest tapes at the
slowest speed. I don't know what or when.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16739 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: More on Time Sensitive
Okay, it's a show called Appraisal Fair.
The featured item is an American Flyer train set.
It airs at noon EST today (Friday). 11 CST, 10 MST, 9 PST.
It is probably going to be a tinplate, prewar Chicago/Coleman job, but, what
the hey,
how often do you turn on the TV set and hear someone talking about American
Flyer?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16740 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: Subject: 583 Magnetic Crane Magnet rewire
I think I may have a diagram for a 583. I have both the 583 and 583A (both needing
repairs) sitting on my temporary layout right now too, so I'll check them also. I'll
check when I get home tonight and let you know.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO



"Neimanis,V. [NCR]" wrote:

> Checked all my half dozen manual without any success or reference about that
> internal wiring.
>
> Maybe someone has taken one apart before.
>
> Maybe describe the pieces on the inside and that will provide a clue. Its
> got to be simple.
>
> V. Neimanis
>
> _____________________________________________
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 07:56:36 -0800 (PST)
> From: Michael Christensen <semaphoresam@...>
> Subject: 583 Magnetic Crane Magnet rewire
>
> I have looked in GReenbergs and K-lines Flyer repair
> manual, and in the FAQ page but can't find a diagram
> for attachment of the wires in the magnet of the
> magnetic crane. Can anyone tell me where I might find
> such a diagram? I have all the pieces, just the wires
> have been pulled from the magnet. Thanks!
>
> __________________________________________________
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16741 From: Hannon Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Poll Origins
Dear S-List:

Like Tom Jarcho said, it started off tongue in cheek. In one
of his posts, he referred to me as "Professor Hannon". To
many who have had the opportunity to go to college (and
that's all it is ... an opportunity ... it doesn't necessarily
make you better; or anyone who didn't ... less) that's
about as DEROGATORY as you can get! For those
of us who served in the armed forces in the enlisted
ranks, it's the equivalent of being called "Sir".

STOP!

No offense to ex-officers on the list!
Some of my best friends were officers!
My brother-in-law was an officer!
I think my wife was one in a previous life!
No retorts expected or desired!
Address all complaints OFF-LIST to:
Tom Jarcho (jarcho@...); or,
Dave Dewey (djdewey@...)


None of the individuals who replied to the "poll"
ever mentioned their educational background
before on this list. None did so in an offensive
or overbearing manner.

Trains, like college or any other area of
interest, can either limit you or open
your mind to other possibilities. A.C.Gilbert's
pitch and the whole point of education
(no matter how it's obtained) is that there's
alway something new to be explored,
learned, solved, done, enjoyed, and yes ...
acquired! "You're only done when you're
dead!"

The point is, a large number of people responded
both on and off-list. Many of them (both with
degrees and without degrees) have asked
to be informed of the results. So, I'll do that.
Not by name of course, but by count.

And I guarantee that no one will be offended!

Standing up bravely to be counted for the future
of the hobby, I am,

Sincerely Yours,

Anonymous
Group: S-Trains Message: 16742 From: David Dewey Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: On PhDs , Fathers & Sons,etc posts & this group
HI all, especially those of you who haven't been "here" very long.
Some may be wondering what all these almost "off subject" posts are about,
since this is an S-trains list. This list consists of members all over the
world who share one commanality--the love of S-sized trains and all that's
about them. Some of us have been on this list so long, we recognize by name
various people, who have become, in many ways, extended family members. So
we do get a bit off-topic now and again, and share a bit of our lives here.
We also bicker once in a while, and even sometimes accidentally insult or
upset each other. We usually work it out too! So, if you think "what's this
about??" when you read some of these posts, just hang around a while, and
participate--pretty soon you'll also be making similar posts as you become
more comfortable with this family. And if you don't watch it, you'll get
stuck with a nickname like The Duck. ;-)

Train on!

S'iincrerly,
David Dewey; AKA " The Duck," AKA "Flyerguy"--faster than a stiking reverse
unit, able to leap over small trestles, and looking for a handy trackside
tool shed to change in-- BTW who shrunk my tights?

PPS, AUGH spell check just crashed, you'll have to live with my spelling
errors!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16743 From: mlmarmer Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: eBay item 1692418717 (Ends Jan-25-02 084327 PST ) - AMERICAN FLYER
These are in excellent condition? I don't think so!

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1692418717

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16744 From: cliffgarz@aol.com Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Train Show
Does anyone have info about the show this weekend in Savanah GA

Cliff
Group: S-Trains Message: 16745 From: David Dewey Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: eBay item 1692418717 (Ends Jan-25-02 084327 PST ) - AMERICAN FL
The acution seller's website claims, "I only sell investement grade
locomotives with tenders"
Hmm.
And I thought these were toys!
:-)
S'
David
Gee, I wonder if I can get a 370 with its tender?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16746 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: eBay item 1692418717 (Ends Jan-25-02 084327 PST ) - AMERICAN FL
Dave,

I have an investment grade, almost MIB, 370 tender I will sell you. Has been bead
blasted to correct satin silver color, decals still intact, missing the knuckle
coupler. Contact me soon as I'm sure it will go fast.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


David Dewey wrote:

> The acution seller's website claims, "I only sell investement grade
> locomotives with tenders"
> Hmm.
> And I thought these were toys!
> :-)
> S'
> David
> Gee, I wonder if I can get a 370 with its tender?
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16747 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: Chionel Again
I am a few days behind so I didn't chime in on the Chinese vs. American
built.

I had an acquaintance who came here from South Africa because she was
convinced being white made her superior. (It didn't. It made her a racist
but that is not the point here... read on.)

One day she commented that she was amazed at how few people do work in the
United States.
I asked her what she meant.
She noticed that to dig a hole in the United States you use a
backhoe on a tractor. One person runs the backhoe and one person has a
shovel and is in the hole. The backhoe does almost all of the work.
I asked why this struck her as odd. (It's normal to me.)
She replied that in South Africa there would be an army of men to
dig the hole.
I asked if the workers would be Afrikaners (whites)?
She was shocked and replied that she would never work for those
wages!

Why did I post this little morality play?

If ALL the men in South Africa were paid at a reasonable minimum wage, South
Africa would see the backhoes too. They didn't then. They had at least two
levels of pay.

If you were to enforce even our inadequate minimum wage on all workers
around the globe, Lionel would run home as fast as they could from China and
once again set up manufacturing in Michigan. Everyone else would run home
too.
After WWII Japan started making brass locomotives. The first were
junk. They learned. Japan became too expensive as their practical minimum
wage went up.
Then the Koreans started making brass locomotives. The first were
junk. They learned. Korea is becoming to expensive as their practical
minimum wage goes up.
Now the Chinese are getting their hands wet making brass and the
cycle repeats... Who's next? India? Bangladesh?

My point is price has always controlled where something is made, how it is
done, how far it can be shipped. In manufacturing, the smaller the
difference in the labor cost, the more the transportation costs becomes an
issue. Raise the wages of the world and the transportation costs will wipe
out the difference. Then all the work will come back home.

Pipe dreams, all of this.

Excuse me while I go unwrap my Chinese made, 2001 SHS Christmas car which
arrived yesterday.
Thorin

Message: 23
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:27:54 EST
From: erierailroad@...
Subject: Chionel Again

Originally I said I was not too happy with my AF being made in China, but
when I saw the 2002 line up I may have to eat my words and buy the Northern
Pacific boxcar and C&O boxcar! They are looking real good.

Jack




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16748 From: jfrr54 Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: eBay item 1692418717 (Ends Jan-25-02 084327 PST ) - AMERICAN FL
I've got some "investment grade" track, too. Its a little dented, but
will straighten out with a blow torch and some pliers. Look at his
inventory, almost everything is in excellent or better condition. He
must really discriminate in what he buys.

John Rodgers
Alexandria, Va.


--- In S-Trains@y..., "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@i...> wrote:
> Dave,
>
> I have an investment grade, almost MIB, 370 tender I will sell you.
Has been bead
> blasted to correct satin silver color, decals still intact, missing
the knuckle
> coupler. Contact me soon as I'm sure it will go fast.
>
> Roger Petrella
> Franktown, CO
>
>
> David Dewey wrote:
>
> > The acution seller's website claims, "I only sell investement
grade
> > locomotives with tenders"
> > Hmm.
> > And I thought these were toys!
> > :-)
> > S'
> > David
> > Gee, I wonder if I can get a 370 with its tender?
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16749 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Paint
Anyone have a close match to 767 diner yellow?


Keith


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 16750 From: Alex Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: The Myth of Toy Trains (was Re: degree survey explanation)
One thing I might add is that the carefully crafted e-mail notes from you
folks are a joy to read. In many e-mail lists, the notes appear to be
written by illiterates. Keep it going, and thank you.

== Alex in Maine



-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Zizzo [mailto:busyboy@...]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:54 AM
To: slist
Cc: Jarcho
Subject: [S-Trains] The Myth of Toy Trains (was Re: degree survey
explanation)


Tom Jarcho, in one deft move, turns this degree thing on it's ear and poses
this puzzler:
> If the educational value of Flyer trains is a myth, is the idea
> that toy trains promote closeness between fathers and sons a myth too???

The educational value of trains proposed by Joshua Cowen was the concept of
learning to be in command of an empire. Lionel was proposing that a
three-rail pike taught leadership skills and provided a forum for learning
how to become a captain of industry. Cowen also hit the father/son bonding
thing pretty hard. I guess it was Dad who was supposed to take advantage of
the opportunity to relate the microcosm of the layout to the macrocosm of
the real world and be your tutor using trains as the learning aid. Heady
stuff, but aimed perfectly at our parent's generation, who were busy trying
to patch up the world following the war and to raise their kids to have a
better life than they did. Lots of theories on child-rearing were being
tested at a time that featured the emergence of Dr. Spock, whose powerful
influence is still felt. Our parents were "young moderns" who were looking
for new ways to relate to their kids and "make a future for them."

A.C. Gilbert had a more practical view than Josh Cowen. Gilbert toys were
meant to expose kids to the sciences and to industry. Erector sets,
chemistry sets and other learning tools complemented the trains in a broader
gestalt approach that let children learn about the world around them.
While Cowen never really specified what wonders a train layout would do
except teach valuable lessons, Gilbert specified that planning and
executing a train layout was a challenge to creativity and problem solving,
with results that could be seen immediately as the trains made their way
around. Gilbert sold pike planning tools intended to help a kid draw out a
blueprint of what he wanted before he built it. Sounds simple enough now,
but it's a big step for a kid who's used to taking a toy out of the box,
playing with it immediately and then leaving it for Mom to pick up. Trains
gave immediate gratification out of the box but long term gratification as
the foundation for a glorious artistic and technical production planned for
the future. Obviously, to carry all this out, you'd need some help from
Dad. All the kid targeted train literature of the period, whether it
featured Lionel or Flyer, stressed the family involvement aspects of layout
building. A train layout was to be a household feature, like a TV set. It
was there for everybody, but especially for the boys and their pipe-smoking
Dad.

My father was mostly interested in music; especially opera. He had little
interest in my stuff. When I was in my thirties, my father apologized for
being such an a**hole while I was growing up. (His words). Too little, too
late. But, as a young modern, he was absorbed in his interests and his own
development. For him, my interest in trains was a kid thing and beneath his
level. My father did not know how to hold a hammer. For years, I used to
give him tools for father's day, in the hopes he might be able to fix a
faucet or stop a leak. No chance. But he was the one who made the choice
for Flyer over Lionel. His reason: real railroads don't use three rails!
Now, we lived in Brooklyn. The subway system gets it's power from the third
rail. Everyone, even the most technically challenged artiste, knows this.
The Long Island Railroad, which we would take to visit friends on the
island, used a third rail. In our world, real trains DID have a third rail!
Go figure. Nonetheless, my trains were my private world, which I inhabited
alone. By edict, they only came out on Christmas eve and were put back in
their boxes and stored by about January 15 or so; Feb 1 at the latest.

I was always a college bound kid. There was to be no question about this.
I was not allowed to take any shop courses in high school. The closest I
came to industrial arts was "Mechanical Drafting". I got a degree (BA in
Communications/Filmmaking) from Hofstra after much tribulation and near
misses. But, what I learned best was electricity. I wish I had followed an
electrical engineering path, because it suits me. Somehow, with all the
white collar training, I find myself working, sporadically, in a blue collar
world of film electrics and technicians. And I keep reaching back to those
trains, as if there were an answer there.

Life has two choices. That's all, just two. Coke or Pepsi. White Collar
or Blue. Democrat or Republican. Schwinn or Columbia. Regular or Decaf.
Avis or Hertz. Lionel or American Flyer. Yes, there are a gazillion
choices, so don't flame me. But somehow, it always seems to come down to
two. Moreover, there seems to be a correlation between items chosen. I'm
Coke, Blue, Democrat, Columbia, Decaf, Avis, American Flyer. It's not about
being #1 or #2. Well, sometimes it is. Really, though, I think it's
whether you go with the flow, or go the alternate path. Everybody had a
Schwinn. Schwinn parts fit no other bikes. You even needed special
wrenches because they were not SAE standardized. They were #1, the
autocracy. Not my path. I guess that kind of thinking, passed down to me
by my father, is why I was a Flyer kid and am an S-gauger now. I'm just
true to my path. I share that much with the old man.


Chris Zizzo



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16751 From: Doug Peck Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: Monsanto
<<Subject: Check Ebay AF Monsanto Tank Car

This 48496 AF tank car sold for $835.00 on Ebay. Does anyone know why it is
so rare and sold for such a high price?

Heres the Ebay link;

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1687493671

>>

As another member reported, this was a SPECIAL car for the SFest. The
regular car was white....this car was orange. There were probably less than
50 produced, making it the rarest Flyonel car ever.
Too bad the bidder didn't see the one on my website for $695 first!

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supplies
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please).
http://www.portlines.com/
portlines@...
VISA --MC--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted.
NEW ! View our entire AF Parts Catalog, as well as Equipment Sales
Inventories On-Line !!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16752 From: max meise Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: degrees
I have a B.S. in Biology with a minor in English, a M.S. in Education, and a
M.A.T. in Earth Science. Max Meise
-----Original Message-----
From: garydmccullah <garymccullah@...>
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 8:06 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] degrees


>I have a B.S. in General Business from SUNY through their Regents
>External Degree program. Throw in the Navy schools I went to and I
>guess I am pretty well educated.
> Gary
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16753 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Fathers, Sons, Trains
My Dad didn't share my love of toy trains, but then he was a depression era,
W.W.II vet that only understood hard work and supporting the family.> But I
> was able to share my love of trains with my two best friends that also had
> trains. They had the "good stuff" and I had the cheap stuff but my love was
> greater than theirs because I never gave them up. When my son who was born
> in 1970 was 3 I set up my Flyer trains on a floor layout that encompassed
> the entire basement family room wall to wall. There was just a path down
> one side to access a book case at the South end. I never knew it but in his
> later years, lets say age 6, he would go down there and run it without my
> knowing because I was at work. I finally had to take it up in 1987 when we
> moved to a new home. He told me when he was about 25 that he had nearly run
> the wheels of my 293 and had crashed it more times than you can count.
> Luckily it was on a carpet on the floor and I never knew the difference. To
> make a long story short his son who is now 3 comes through my front door on
> a run and heads straight down the hall to the train room shouting "choo
> choo Grampa, choo choo." I can say that toy trains do create bonds between
> fathers and sons if they want them too. Kind of nice bonds between Grandpas
> and grandsons too.


Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16754 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Re: degrees
No PHD for me....but besides my BA, I was promoted on
March 21, 1971 to Locomotive Engineer on the Illinois
Central Railroad. (At that time I believe I was the
youngest fully promoted engineer in the USA!) Flyer
influence..YOU BET!
--- max meise <mmeise@...> wrote:
> I have a B.S. in Biology with a minor in English, a
> M.S. in Education, and a
> M.A.T. in Earth Science. Max Meise
> -----Original Message-----
> From: garydmccullah <garymccullah@...>
> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
> <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 8:06 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] degrees
>
>
> >I have a B.S. in General Business from SUNY through
> their Regents
> >External Degree program. Throw in the Navy schools
> I went to and I
> >guess I am pretty well educated.
> > Gary
> >
> >
> >S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> too!
> >
> >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
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> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16755 From: LeonhardtEuler@netscape.net Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: A bunch of stuff.
First, regarding the camelback locomotives, the configuration originated with the Philadelphia and Reading Railroad in the 1870s when Superintendent of Motive Power John E. Wooten invented the Wooten firebox. Since the Philadelphia and Reading Railroad was only a division of the Philadelphia and Reading Coal and Iron Company it was one of the very early dreams of the powers that were in the railroad to find some configuration to allow the locomotives to butn anthracite coal.
The P&RC&I owned most of the mines in the southern anthracite region. James Milholland was the Superintendent of Motive Power in the 1850s, and his "Gunboats" were early attempts to burn anthracite. The locomotives were somewhat successful, but the most successful were the Ross Winans built and inspired "Camels." These has the cab mounted high over the boiler, and were rather high up above the tracks. One of these, a pusher named "Pennsylvania," was built as an 0-12-0. It was one of the biggest locomotives at the time it was built, in the early 1860s. It had no couplers, and basically just pushed trains up the steep grades of the anthracite region.
Wooten's wide firebox necessitated the centrally mounted cabs of camelback locomotives, or so the P&R thought. The fireman stood on a platform at the rear of the locomotive and had simply a roof over his head, but he was exposed to the elements otherwise.
Most of the railroads that served the anthracite region used camelbacks, especially the Central Railroad of New Jersey (CNJ), Lehigh Valley, Lehigh and New England, and the Erie. There were other lines that used them, but those given above had substantial fleets of camelbacks.

The discussion about the different 'S' gauge manufacturers and suppliers really does not affect me. With the amount of Gilbert AF stuff I have I probably will not consider Lionel Flyer. I basically model the steam era in what I consider to be the "transitional" years. One might see an occasional PA1 or Geep, but more modern diesel locomotives or rolling stock will not fit into my operational scheme.
I have one Lionel three-rail 'O' gauge locomotive, a Pennsylvania S1 6-8-6 steam turbine that I bought simply because a close friend (now departed) gave me some freight cars that he thought were 'S' gauge. I discovered after the fact that they were Lionel 'O.' The next train meet I attended I looked for a locomotive to match these cars. I found the S1 and gladly shelled out the $35 he was asking for it.
If I were to invest in any present day 'S' gauge stuff it would be the GG1 in high rail configuration or a steam locomotive. I already top heavy with PA1s and GP7s and would much rather buy used Gilbert Atlantics, since they are based on the Reading's class P7sb 4-4-2 than new. This is true because my railroad is based on the Reading.
But if you want to have 'S' gauge trains readily available, then I suggest that you constructively critize those presently attempting to supply your appetites. If you fail to do this, then 'S' gauge may very well expire the same way as Gilbert AF did.
Me, I have pretty much of the 'S' gauge stuff that I need.

Degrees are pretty much an indicator not necessarily of what you know as just stating the fact that you took so many credits in your major and minor and passed all the necessary courses. The proof is what you accomplish after the degree.
My father, Luther Boussum, never finished school. His younger brother was supposed to be the one from the family to go to college. My dad went to work picking coal at one of the local colleries as a teenager. Later he worked for Budd (yes, the manufacturer of the California Zephyr coaches), as a truck driver for Reading Transportation (the bus and trucking division of the P&R railroad), and the P&R and later Reading Locomotive Shop. One of his bosses at the Locomotive Shop figured my dad would make a good air brake man.
That was the closest he came to a degree. He studied air brake through the International Correspondence School and was competent with both locomotive and train brakes. In 1948 after World War II he left the railroad and purchased Haven Cab Co. in Schuylkill Haven, PA. He continued operating the cab company until he retired in 1965 when he sold the company to someone else.
But his labor made it possible for his son to go to college where I studied mathematics and physics. In addition to these subjects I also am an amateur astronomer and have worked with modern physics.
By way of contrast I have seen people with advanced degrees sit at a desk for 25-30 years and apparently have never picked up any information beyond their degrees, whatever the level.
The proof lies in how you use what you have learned.
W. Thomas Boussum


"If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch you must start by creating the universe." Carl Sagan in "Cosmos."
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16756 From: John Foley Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: New Manufact
Hi Folks
Ted Larson directed me to this new S manufacturers website.
http://www.cccrow.com/main-pages/s-list.html#s-list-top
Take a look at the structures and building panels they produce
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 16757 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Testing
Testing - the info on the message list is acting strange!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16758 From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S. Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: Russ Mobley's Collection for Sale
Howdy Friends

I received the following message from Pete and a copy of the collection
list. I have placed the list and order form in the S-Trains files area;
they are Excel documents under Russ Mobley Collection.

I have some knowledge of the collection, but not as much as Pete. So any
heavy questions should be directed to Pete as he stipulates below.

Please print and pass the list to others who are not online, as we wish
to sell the collection as soon as possible.

Take care, and read on!

Thanks
Bill



Fellow "S" model railroaders

Russ Mobley died August 2001 in Thomson, Ga. He was a "S" Gauger for a
long time and an active NASG person, as written in the recent magazines.
His collection goes back to the early days and models up to this year.

I have inventoried his collection, as best as I could, and have it
available either through the Internet or by mail, it is 10 pages. Send a
large self-addressed envelope with 3 ozs. of postage to Mrs. Mobley. I
still am organizing the tools, track, vehicles and memorabilia etc.,
which should be ready in late January 2002? This is a weekend project a
100 miles from my home.

I assigned Inventory numbers to each, gave a description, and Russ Index
Card opinion of its condition and value when available, the rest is an
estimate made by several "S" friends of mine and Russ.

There is an order form to list your requests. Send with a money order or
bank check to Mae Mobley, 5642 Wood Valley Road, Thomsom, Ga. 30824.
Personal check orders will be held until the check clears. I will go to
Thomson twice a month to fill orders.

Shipping costs vary as to the weight and distance via UPS or USPS light
packages $5 to $10 each, Heavy locomotives etc $10 to $20 each. Large
orders we will have to talk, so give a telephone number with your order.

Mae supported Russ in his hobby, but does not have a working knowledge
of the collection. So call me with your questions at HOME 770-420-3960
and leave a message or call my Cell Phone 904-607-3222.

Please do not send E-mail to my Company Computer Address and I do not
have a personal computer.

Pete Silcox Kennesaw,Ga. NASG # 83R0054E


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Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 16759 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: 2002 Flyonel
Joe's Train Repair will be offering the "new" American
Flyer trains recently announced in the latest Lionel
catalog. Prices are as follows:

Boxcars, Chemical Car, and Caboose ($47)
AF C&O Boxcar(blue and yellow)
AF C&O Boxcar (Share in Freedom)
AF Gilbert Chemicals Chemical car (white/yellow)
AF Rock Island Caboose

Hopper, Flat and Gondola ($43)
AF B&O 3-bay Hopper
AF Reading Gondola with 6 Pipes
AF ATSF Flatcar with 2 Jet Canisters

New York Central double PA with 4 passenger cars
($495)

Rock Island GP-9 ($230)

Checkerboard Bubbling Water Tower ($72)

Shipping, handling, and insurance are extra.

For photographs, see the most recent Lionel catalog or
go to
www.train-station.com/cgi-local/shop.pl/page=6-20021-007x.html/SID=29
(where x is a value from 72-75 to see the four
different pages).

Joe

=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

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Group: S-Trains Message: 16760 From: John Harvey Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: AF Display Down Under
Advance Notice:

I shall be displaying some of my AF collection at the Beechworth Memorial
Hall Collectables Fair on the 4th and 5th of May. There will be a small
portable layout and some static exhibits.

If any one happens to be in Australia at that time, Beechworth is an
historic gold mining town, an easy three hour's drive north of Melbourne -
www.beechworth.com.

Please feel free to contact me for exact details.

Kind Regards,

John Harvey
brigadie@...



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Group: S-Trains Message: 16761 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/18/2002
Subject: 583/583 wiring
Here is a description of the wiring for the cranes. Wish I could send
the drawing, but my daughter has my scanner. If this isn't clear, let
me know and I will try to get the pictures.

(Tom Jarcho - please correct me if these are wrong)

583 Crane (single button controller)(uses reversing unit like in locos)

Looking down on assembly as if it was mounted in a loco & tender,
1. wire from right side of field goes to right contact of lower e-unit
fingers
2. wire from right brush goes to left contact of lower e-unit fingers
3. wire from left side of field goes to left contact of upper e-unit
fingers
4. wire from left brush goes to right contact of coil lead plate and
also to yellow wire that is connected to transformer. One magnet lead
connects to left brush also.
5. wire from right contact of upper e-unit fingers goes to left contact
of coil lead plate and also to black wire that goes to control button.
The other magnet lead connects to the same black wire (or coil plate
contact)


583A Crane (two button controller)

Field assembly is dual wound, each connection contains 2 wires.

1. a red wire is connected to one of the two wires on one side of the
motor field, to one of the brush clips and to one of the wires from the
electromagnet
2. a green wire is connected to the other wire on the same side of the
field as the red wire
3. a black wire is connected to the other brush clip, a wire from the
electromagnet and the other field wires

Hope these help.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO
Group: S-Trains Message: 16762 From: ljack70117@adelphia.net Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Re: The Flyonel Conundrum
How can Flyonel do any thing for "S" with 1940 tooling? You can make a
million dollars worth of models off the old tooling and all you have is
1940 stuff. If they were really interested they would make new 2002
tooling and produce new models. Isn't that what SHS, AM, BTS and others
are doing????????
Thank you
Larry Jackman

Chris Zizzo wrote:
>
> Dear Track Gang:
> I haven't made any friends here with my position on the new l
Group: S-Trains Message: 16763 From: ljack70117@adelphia.net Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Re: The Flyonel Conundrum
I do not think so.
HOW can they "gauge the market" with models produced from 60 year old
tooling. Most people do not want them. If they made just one new model
from 2002 tooling then they would find out what the market wants. Flyer
collectors do not want the stuff because it is not flyer but Flyonel "Reproduction".
Flyonel must step up along side of SHS, AM, BTS and others if they want
to be in the S scale market. Either the hi-rail or scale.
The sad point Gilbert died and so did AF. The American Flyer name will
not sell reproduction models.
It is a sad day at Dodge, partner.
Thank you
Larry Jackman


Chris Zizzo wrote:
>
> Larry Jackman responds:
> > tooling and produce new models.
>
> That's been the whole point of all this discussion, Larry. Lionel has
> promised new tooling, particularly in steam. This current offering is their
> return to the gauge with a substantial number of items. Basically they have
> a passenger set, a freight set ala carte, and an accessory. My point is
> that they are once again gauging the market with an eye to expansion.
>
> Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16764 From: ljack70117@adelphia.net Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Re: LAF
MAKE NEW MOLDS OF TODAYS EQUIPMENT. The old Flyer is over 60 years old.
Thank you
Larry Jackman

roy inman wrote:
>
> An open question to the list:
> Just exactly what would those of you who have complained ab
Group: S-Trains Message: 16765 From: mvandiver2@aol.com Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1291
I have read nearly all the stories that have come from the discussion about
degrees and AF trains. The thing that has really appealed to me are the
stories behind the "degree" discussion. The stories have been so wonderful
that I have developed an interest in collecting them. I really would
appreciate it if those of you who would not mind doing so would edit your
stories to not so much concentrate on the "degree" part but on how you got
into trains. At present, I have no desire to do anything beyond collecting
them. However, if someone could come up with a unique way of doing so, I
think it would be good to share them with others. This might be a good way
of getting some younger kids involved in the hobby. Would there be any
offense if I collected them, then made them available to our online group and
then discuss with all of you any further use? If anyone has any objection to
having their story printed in any form, you could just tell me so and I would
be happy to honor that request.
Now for my story. I have a Dr. of Ministry degree and a Master of Theology
Degree from Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, D. C. That's as far
as the association between degrees and trains goes with me.
I got my first AF when I was five. I'm 59 now. I still have the 322 and all
the origional cars. My dad was an auto mechanic and when he would buy tools,
he would get "points" for his purchases. The points could be traded for
merchandise. My dad gave Santa the points, and Santa got the AF. The next
year, I asked for another train and my dad gave Santa some more points and I
got a Lionel. When I got into my teens, the trains were no longer put under
the tree at Christmas and they were not brought out again until about 10 or
12 years ago when my wife insisted that I once again put them under our tree.
As a United Methodist minister, I move rather frequently and the homes
(furnished by the churches I have served) have unsually not had adequate
space for me to leave the trains up year round. However, after that
Christmas a few years ago when I got them back out, I have started devising
ways of hanging them from ceilings in the house. We recently moved to a
house in Spartanburg, S. C., where it was obviouis I was not going to be able
to hand the trains from the ceiling in the house because it was "too nice" so
I have put up my most elaborate display yet in our garage. I'm going to send
a picture of this year's layout to Paul Yorke as soon as I finish this email.
This Christmas, we had over 500 people come see the trains. Some of my most
treasured memories of most recent Christmas seasons have been standing and
watching little children, mezmorized by the running of the trains. By the
way, my lay out this year included a G, an O (my origional Lionel), and S (my
origional AF), a HO, a N, and a Z gague train. I have a portable unit I
carry to nursing homes and hospitals. What a wonderful gift model trains
have been to me. By the way, most times, when I go into a restaurant and
carry all my diplomas with me, they still charge me the regualr price of a
cup of coffee.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16766 From: bobkat531 Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: 322 S.I.T. question
My 322 SIT smokes great at the station at a idile. When it is running
down the track nothing. Help please.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16767 From: bobkat531 Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Automating controled blocks
Anyone have any ideas to make blocks automatic? I have Barkers book.
Has anyone built his light activated one? Is there any other ideas?
thanks.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16768 From: David Dewey Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: LAF & the Flyonel Conundrum
Gee guys (non-gender slang for "y'alls")
I think AF people (like myself) would buy NEW AF from new molds, IF it
was quality--not like that awful caboose from a few years ago. I recently
bought the SHS WP F units because I have wanted to do a WP CZ train, and WP
never owned Alco PAs. The lever of detail almost overwhelms the AF stuff,
and I do have to be far more careful handling it (allthough, if one is not
careful with AF alcos, you lose the horns and the antena). I also LOVE the
sound effects and the mars light, along with the ability to turn them on and
off, AND by pushing a button, she glides into the station, with all the
lights fully on. Another button push, and the air brakes release, and she
glides back up to speed. TOO MUCH -- this is remote control the way ACG
would have done it! However, don't ask me to repair it--and I don't know
what I'll do when the elctronics finally fry either.
So far no one has complained about the combination of equipment. The
combination of LTI CZ cars, and my own ACG custom CZ cars look great behind
it--especially the dome-observation car at the rear! Now if those SHS
couplers were as compatible with the AF ones (I have yet been successful at
remote coupling the cars to the engines, but once coupled, I haven't had any
un-planned uncouplings), I'd be in seventh heaven--or at least on cloud
nine.
Another thought just came to me; if Big L really wanted to "stand the S
crowd on its ear" they'd put out a heavyweight set at an affordable price!
Of course, this might require a steamer to pull them. . . . (But in reality
not, as I, as well as most of you, have one ready and waiting already.)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16769 From: seg60133 Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Flyer in the movies
I was watching a 1998 or 99 movie called "Murder of Crows" with Cuba
Gooding. All of a sudden there's a scene with a Gilbert AF S gauge
layout with trains operating! There was a very long string of
chestnut striped passenger cars, and another with a Hudson pulling
freight cars including a Penn Western Electric flat. There were also
at least 3 oil derricks and a cluster of oil depots. It was about a 5
sec shot about half to two thirds into the movie. The movie was set in
New Orleans. Did anyone else notice this scene or know of any details
about who consulted on the setup?

Steve Gruninger
Group: S-Trains Message: 16770 From: TED R LARSON Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Corgi
Somebody recently posted information about an on-line dealer selling
Corgi 1/64th vehicles.
The website cautions that the vehicles might vary from actual 1/64th
scale.
I have some of the Corgi (ex - Lledo) vehicles.

Check this URL for a photo of them with Hartoy and Mint Editions trucks.
http://www.trainweb.org/mhrr/mhrreast/corgi.html


Ted Larson
ADULT: A person who has stopped growing at
both ends and is now growing in the middle.


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Group: S-Trains Message: 16771 From: Steve Blancard Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: On-line track planner ?
Can anyone tell me how to use this online track planner:

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/track/dropndrag.htm

I can move a single piece of track but can't figure out how to "copy" a
pice of track so it can be used multiple times. Am I a dunce and just
missing something obvious or does this only allow you to use a piece of
track once? It doesn't seem very useful if you can only use a piece of
track once.

Thanks,
Steve Blancard
Track Engineer Apprentice
Group: S-Trains Message: 16772 From: Paul Yorke Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Re: On-line track planner ?
it's not you, it is just a 'toy' web page.
to do serious track planning I suggest you learn a
drafting program, or get some track planning software.
There are some free drafting programs available for
download on znet.com
Maybe someday I will be smart enough to write a true
online track planner, with copy and other features.
--- Steve Blancard <splitdorf@...> wrote:
> Can anyone tell me how to use this online track
> planner:
>
> http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/track/dropndrag.htm
>
> I can move a single piece of track but can't figure
> out how to "copy" a
> pice of track so it can be used multiple times. Am
> I a dunce and just
> missing something obvious or does this only allow
> you to use a piece of
> track once? It doesn't seem very useful if you can
> only use a piece of
> track once.
>
> Thanks,
> Steve Blancard
> Track Engineer Apprentice
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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Group: S-Trains Message: 16773 From: Gerry Evans Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer in the movies
STEVE:

Did you ever notice the Jack in the Box TV ad that ran immediately
before Christmas that was shot in a quasi-8mm mode? The train (which is only
on for about two seconds) surely looked like an AF or AM steam.

Gerry Evans
In Flagstaff, where the snow flies in Arizona
Group: S-Trains Message: 16774 From: hornickw Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Tops for 720A Switches
Friends,
I've recently acquired a bunch of AF 720A Switches that need
repairs. Many of them are missing the cast metal covers to the
mechanism housing, the part that covers over the light bulb.

Does anyone know of a source for these covers, used or repro makes no
difference.
John Hornick
Group: S-Trains Message: 16775 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] The Myth of Toy Trains (was Re: degree survey expla
I joined this list in '98 and left it in '99 when I retired and moved.
I re-joined last year and in all the time that I have been part of this
list I have made a few submissions, but have read with interest each and
all submitted by others and made no comment. Somehow I feel that a
response is necessary to this message.

This message started out as possibly one of the most well-versed
descriptions of the differences in the philosophies of A.C. Gilbert
versus J. L. Cowen that I have read. I think while reading this I may
have whispered a few hallelujahs and a couple of Amen Brothers. When I
came to the line about the pipe-smoking Dad I had visions of my VHS copy
of "Roar of the Rails", then suddenly I got to descriptions of life's
choices and how they correlate and my vision of the pipe-smoking Dad
turned into the little girl with her head spinning around spitting out
pea soup in the Exorcist....WHAT'S UP WITH THAT?

Now my choices: Coke, Blue Collar, Neither Democrat nor Republican as I
try to select the candidate best qualified, I don't go with the flow and
follow party lines, I have voted for both parties more so Republican.

Schwinn, I had a Schwinn Black Phanton, not because it was supposed to
be #1, but because it had a springer front end, a big real leather seat,
nice paint job and I thought it was cool. I rode the bike about 6 years
and abused it as well as any kid could. I took it apart at various
times fully aware that you shouldn't damage the nuts or screwheads and
used common tools from the basement to do this, with one exception when
I had to take the front wheel in to Western Auto to change a broken
axle, if that required any special tool I don't see any big deal as my
total charge was 75 cents.

Coffee..regular. Those of us who drink coffee regular tend to think of
it as coffee real.

Avis or Hertz.. I could care less I go by availabilty and price, I'm not
buying the car I just want to borrow it for awhile.

American Flyer....NO QUESTION!

So after reading my choices you must agree we don't really have a whole
lot in common except for the only thing that really matters on this list
and that's the FLYER.

I do like your writing style tho and my wife gets a kick out of your
messages most of the time since, as she says, you do have a way of
spicing things up on here.

Oh Boy! Trains!................Herky 1950

Obie Bell



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16776 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Re: Fwd:The Myth of Toy Trains (was Re: degree survey explanation)
Obie Bell wrote:
>I got to descriptions of life's
>choices and how they correlate and my vision of the pipe-smoking Dad
>turned into the little girl with her head spinning around spitting out
>pea soup in the Exorcist.

Yikes!

I knew someone was going to take me to task for the choices, but I stand by
it. And I left out:
Yankees or Dodgers; Burger King or McDonald's; Chocolate or Vanilla; PC or
Mac; VHS or Beta; The Beatles or Elvis; Nestle's Quik or Bosco; Life or
Death. There really are only two choices.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16777 From: joe messinger Date: 1/19/2002
Subject: Influences?
The recent accounts of the genesis of our involvement in model trains by
members of the S List have been very interesting and enjoyable. Since we
have just taken a (tongue in cheek) poll of our educational background, I
wonder if a poll of our ages might be relevant to our interest? The reason
I pose this question is that I am curious to know how many of us were around
during the latter part of the railroad steam age and if we were, could that
have had an influence on our choice of hobbies?

I will be 58 in about a week (Jan. 27th) and I have many fond memories of
the sight and sounds of the steam engines of years past. Here in West
Virginia coal has been a major part of our economy and railroads were, and
perhaps still are, a primary means of transporting coal. My father was born
and grew up in the Eastern Panhandle of WV in the late 1800's and early
1900's. Steam engines and the loads they pulled were a great source of
entertainment and conversation for many folks of that era and location. The
Mallets that hauled enormous loads over the mountains near Dad's home were
his favorites.

I remember going to the train station with Dad in the early 1950's and
watching the steamers as they pulled into and away from the depot. I was
both thrilled and frightened by their size and sound. I still think that no
other machine on Earth exemplifies power and brute force as vividly as a
steam locomotive.

I can recall listening to distant steam whistles as I lay in bed at night
and thinking about the far away places those trains might be going.

In 1951 when I was 7, my mother and I traveled by rail to California to
visit with my sister. The trip took 3 days and 3 nights. On that trip,
diesel locomotives were used about 50% of the time to pull our train. I
didn't care much for the diesels then. I'm still not crazy about them.
They just loomed out there in front of the train as we moved along. Not very
interesting. On the other hand, the steam locomotives were far more
animated and entertaining. I was fascinated by the way they belched smoke
and steam from their stacks. I could watch the valve linkage and side rods
work and see the big driver wheels turning. It was a good lesson in the
mechanics of a machine. Even for a boy of 7.

Being that Dad and I both were imprinted by steam engines at an early age,
naturally he got an electric train for himself when he thought I was old
enough to have one... A new American Flyer 290 passenger set was delivered
by Santa on Christmas morning, 1950. We set it up around the Christmas tree
and played with it the rest of the day and throughout the Holiday Season.
The 290 set became as much a part of Christmas traditions as a Christmas
tree.

The last steam engine I saw in service was in 1959. I was 15 then. A
Norfolk & Western class J steamed past us as we waited at a crossing near
Roanoke, VA. I waved at the engineer and he replied with a blast of the
whistle and a smile. I guess that was a good one to end it with. What a
beautiful machine that was.

Of course the days of steam engines hauling long lines of freight, coal and
passenger cars are long gone but the memory of them will always remain with
me. So will the old Flyer 290 set. It will always hold a place of honor
under our Christmas tree. I have added quite a few more S gauge locomotives
to the collection over the years. They're all steam engines. I still like
watching the valve linkage, side rods and big drivers move. By the way,
does anyone make an S gauge Mallet? Dad just might be looking down.

I guess the above rambling is the best I can do at explaining what
influenced my interests in toy trains.

Regards,

Joe Messinger
Morgantown,WV



_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 16778 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: New poll for S-Trains
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
S-Trains group:

What are the demographics of our list-
members regarding age, period and
equipment modeled?

Check any statement that is true for
you.



o Age less than 19
o Age 20 to 30
o Age 30 to 40
o Age 40 to 50
o Age 50 to 60
o Age 60 to 70
o Age greater than 70
o I model steam only
o I own steam engines only
o I own diesel locomotives only
o I own both diesel and steam locomotives
o I model modern area only
o I own only original Flyer items
o I own Flyer and Flionel
o I own Flyer Flionel, SHS, AM and others.


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/polls

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16779 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
I made some corrections in the Poll....it really looks like the one
below.

Please go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/polls to respond.


What are the demographics of our list- members regarding age, period
and equipment modeled? Check any statement that is true for you.

o Age less than 19
o Age 20 to 30
o Age 30 to 40
o Age 40 to 50
o Age 50 to 60
o Age 60 to 70
o Age greater than 70
o I model "S" only
o I own steam engines only
o I own diesel locomotives only
o I own both diesel and steam locomotives
o I model modern area only
o I own only original Flyer items
o I own Flyer and Flionel
o I own Flyer Flionel, SHS, AM or other.




--- In S-Trains@y..., S-Trains@y... wrote:
>
> Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> S-Trains group:
>
> What are the demographics of our list-
> members regarding age, period and
> equipment modeled?
>
> Check any statement that is true for
> you.
>
>
>
> o Age less than 19
> o Age 20 to 30
> o Age 30 to 40
> o Age 40 to 50
> o Age 50 to 60
> o Age 60 to 70
> o Age greater than 70
> o I model steam only
> o I own steam engines only
> o I own diesel locomotives only
> o I own both diesel and steam locomotives
> o I model modern area only
> o I own only original Flyer items
> o I own Flyer and Flionel
> o I own Flyer Flionel, SHS, AM and others.
>
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/polls
>
> Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
> web site listed above.
>
> Thanks!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16780 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Polling responses
Hi All,

BS in management
Associates Degree in Data Processing
Age 53 (retired)
Steamers only (except for one #355 Baldwin)
American Flyer exclusively

I became involved with American Flyer trains vis a vis my brother. Our Dad brought home a Flying Freighter set one year (Baldwin loco). He probably bought it at Murphy's 5 & 10 cent store or Sears. They immediately put up a 4X8 layout. I watched and was hooked. Later, my brother got a Royal Blue and some other steamer that smoked and a seemingly endless supply of track. Our house was a flat and you could walk a circuitous route around the whole inside. We had track all around. It ran under the couch, around an endtable, under a chair or two, through 'tunnels' made from couch cushions, branched, crossed-over, trestled, etc. It made stops at all our Plasticville buildings. Our parents were very tolerant of the track everywhere! The fun was setting it up, then watching it disappear through-out the house. We set up ambushes for the dog. We would set up track in the morning and take it down at night - what fun! I have a Royal Blue now and it is magic to me, still. When I run one of the steamers I have, the smell of the smoke takes me back to an earlier, innocent time.

That's my story.
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16781 From: Alex Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Re: Influences?
Joe, your description evokes strong memories of a lost era. Once,
accompanied by my dad, I saw a New York Central steam locomotive express
roar through the Peekskill, New York station. I must have been five years
old or so, and was also frightened by the awesome smell, vibration, and
thunderous noise. Now, more than fifty years later, I still vividly recall
that day. As I write this, I remember the approaching train, and how my
father's excitement mounted as it got closer.

Many thanks for writing of your experiences. Your description of the Norfolk
& Western loco passing you at the grade crossing near Roanoke, and how that
engineer blew the whistle for you, evokes images right out of O. Winston
Link's wonderful collection of N&W photographs. Every now and then, if I'm
waiting at a grade crossing, I'll get out of the car to wave to the
engineer. Most wave back, but the last time I did this the seemingly bored
engineer was too busy stuffing potato chips into his gizzard to pay me any
mind. Oh well. Times change. I feel so lucky to have experienced the Real
Thing.

By the way, I'm also a telegrapher. I've been a ham radio operator almost
all my life, and use Morse Code extensively on the air. I use an old McElroy
telegraph key, or "bug," to send, and enjoy every minute of it. Most other
operators now send and receive using electronically controlled keys, and
they sound like robots. The old Mac key also reminds me of that earlier era.

== Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-.

-----Original Message-----
From: joe messinger [mailto:jmessinger@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 12:43 AM
To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Influences?



The recent accounts of the genesis of our involvement in model trains by
members of the S List have been very interesting and enjoyable. Since we
have just taken a (tongue in cheek) poll of our educational background, I
wonder if a poll of our ages might be relevant to our interest? The reason
I pose this question is that I am curious to know how many of us were around
during the latter part of the railroad steam age and if we were, could that
have had an influence on our choice of hobbies?

I will be 58 in about a week (Jan. 27th) and I have many fond memories of
the sight and sounds of the steam engines of years past. Here in West
Virginia coal has been a major part of our economy and railroads were, and
perhaps still are, a primary means of transporting coal. My father was born
and grew up in the Eastern Panhandle of WV in the late 1800's and early
1900's. Steam engines and the loads they pulled were a great source of
entertainment and conversation for many folks of that era and location. The
Mallets that hauled enormous loads over the mountains near Dad's home were
his favorites.

I remember going to the train station with Dad in the early 1950's and
watching the steamers as they pulled into and away from the depot. I was
both thrilled and frightened by their size and sound. I still think that no
other machine on Earth exemplifies power and brute force as vividly as a
steam locomotive.

I can recall listening to distant steam whistles as I lay in bed at night
and thinking about the far away places those trains might be going.

In 1951 when I was 7, my mother and I traveled by rail to California to
visit with my sister. The trip took 3 days and 3 nights. On that trip,
diesel locomotives were used about 50% of the time to pull our train. I
didn't care much for the diesels then. I'm still not crazy about them.
They just loomed out there in front of the train as we moved along. Not very
interesting. On the other hand, the steam locomotives were far more
animated and entertaining. I was fascinated by the way they belched smoke
and steam from their stacks. I could watch the valve linkage and side rods
work and see the big driver wheels turning. It was a good lesson in the
mechanics of a machine. Even for a boy of 7.

Being that Dad and I both were imprinted by steam engines at an early age,
naturally he got an electric train for himself when he thought I was old
enough to have one... A new American Flyer 290 passenger set was delivered
by Santa on Christmas morning, 1950. We set it up around the Christmas tree
and played with it the rest of the day and throughout the Holiday Season.
The 290 set became as much a part of Christmas traditions as a Christmas
tree.

The last steam engine I saw in service was in 1959. I was 15 then. A
Norfolk & Western class J steamed past us as we waited at a crossing near
Roanoke, VA. I waved at the engineer and he replied with a blast of the
whistle and a smile. I guess that was a good one to end it with. What a
beautiful machine that was.

Of course the days of steam engines hauling long lines of freight, coal and
passenger cars are long gone but the memory of them will always remain with
me. So will the old Flyer 290 set. It will always hold a place of honor
under our Christmas tree. I have added quite a few more S gauge locomotives
to the collection over the years. They're all steam engines. I still like
watching the valve linkage, side rods and big drivers move. By the way,
does anyone make an S gauge Mallet? Dad just might be looking down.

I guess the above rambling is the best I can do at explaining what
influenced my interests in toy trains.

Regards,

Joe Messinger
Morgantown,WV



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Group: S-Trains Message: 16782 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Lack of degree
OK,
Here's mine, At age 20 I became a licensed Class 1 water treatment plant
operator. Lots of schooling, no degree. At age 22 I became a Firefighter and
EMT for 10 and 6 years respectively. At age 30, started college for an
associate degree in respiratory therapy. Also started a divorce. Almost lost
the childhood trains, but the courts wouldn't let her have those. 1 for me 20
for her (That's another story.) Missed the degree by 13 credit hours do to
illness brought on by stress of School and work full time on top of divorce.
2 yr. wait to get back into program. Said the heck with it and moved to FLA.
for a year and worked at H&R trains in St. Petersburg. A year later, moved to
Dayton Ohio to marry high school sweetie. Now work at Delphi Harrison Thermal
until next layoff in march. The plan is to finish the degree in respiratory
therapy until I can get a hobby shop/Christmas store opened.
As far as closeness with the father; my Dad and I are pretty close
considering he always worked a lot of hours. Spent time together in Boy
Scouts camping, but he didn't like messing with the trains much. Would tell
me to go play with them and he would help if I got stuck. He does come to the
house when the trains are up and will stand for hours watching them run. I
think he is proud that he got me involved with the trains. He still doesn't
talk a lot.
Well, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it!
Never take life seriously.
Nobody gets out alive anyway.

THE TRAINNUT
CHRIS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16783 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Influences?
I just have to add a little about the NYC. My grandfather lived in Mt.
Kisco, and his house was right next to the tracks/station. We used to
visit him during the 40's and early 50's (I was 5-12 years old during
this time). The only thing separating the small house from the tracks
was about 15' of yard, and some hedges about 10' high. You could really
hear and feel those 4-6-4's come barrelling through (if they had them on
freights?), and when the passenger 4-6-4's stopped at the station the
steam sounds were fantastic. The whole house shook for a few minutes
before, to a few minutes afterwards. Really an awesome experience.
Rance Velapoldi
Group: S-Trains Message: 16784 From: Tom Rolfsmeyer Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: My Story
Well with all of you fessing up to your love of trains and telling us
what effect is has had on your career I find myself feeling the need to
add my two cents. So here we go.

I will be 52 in April of this year. I Also have a BA in Business but
current job is a Sr. Plastics Process Engineer. I am also a certified
Plastics technologist. Don't even ask what that means. Received my first
AF train in 58, a Yard King you know the one with 13 cars and the figure
eight that causes the switch engine to just miss the caboose even at
full throttle. I like fishing hope to go to Canada this spring and fish
for Walleyes, Pike and lake Trout and have a weeks worth of shore fries
and great fishing. I am also a amateur Astronomer, wood worker,
photographer, stamp collector, etc., etc. Happily married for 31 years
she still thinks I am the man, and she even plays with the trains with
me. I think that using your imagination when playing with the trains as
a child has helped me start the long road to learning how and why things
work the way they do. I fixed my old Flyer stuff quiet often and learned
from that experience how to often make do with what was available to fix
things and at least get them running again. It also gave me a head start
on diagnostic skills I would need in the job I have now. Most of my
Flyer stuff is Steam and as a boy we had a coal trian rummble pass our
house just a few blocks away. I can remember picking up large pieces of
coal to mark on the side walk with and the noise and smell of the switch
engine that delivered the coal to the factories in our neighborhood.
Lost my first AF set when the parents didn't see eye to eye any more and
went there seperate ways. So I found all the pieces and rebuilt the set
I had as a kid and it still just misses the caboose when I put the
figure eight up and run them around. I enjoy this forum and mostly just
read the memos and learn about the who, what where, when, and how of AF
toy trains. And yes I play with my trains and share them any time I get
a chance. I have so far put together 4 AF sets all frieght sets to give
to childern less fortunate than I was usually around Christmas. All of
these kids just love the smoke and choo-choo sounds even if it is just a
small loop with 3 frieght pieces and a caboose. I would like to be
retired but my advisor tells me I have to work at least 6 more years so
playing with the trains helps me get through the times when the stress
levels are out of sight. I am a high rail guy and run all kinds of
stuff, including the L stuff. Have a lot of the accesories and most have
been repaired or fixed one way or another but I still get a kick out of
watching the kids operate the sawmill, log loader, semaphores, whistles,
danger signals etc. Have more fun showing the kids how these things work
and letting them run the trains than just about anything else I do.

Well enough from me.

Tom Rolfsmeyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 16785 From: chucky5741 Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Hi! I am new here.
My name is Chuck and I have been a American Flyer collector and
operator since my Father bought my first engine in 1941, a few months
before I was even born.
I have just purchased a #21801 Baldwin Switcher and had to change
brushes and brush holder. Also the new brushes I bought had the brush
holders just a little too long so I adjusted them so that the brushes
sit properly. Now my problem is the locomotive sounds like a coffee
grinder as soon as I reinstall the wheels. When the motor is running
free it is very smooth and quiet. I have checked the gears for burrs,
and possible missing teeth and they are fine. Can anyone help???
Thanks,
Chuck
moochie@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 16786 From: ron inscho Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Re: Influences?
MY case is about the same only it was in Galion OH. & My grandfather was an
Engineer the BIG FOUR as was all of his brothers & sons except for My father
he was a barber may be he was the smart one. But because the Gilbert J3
Hudson was just like the real ones that Granpa ran & American Flyer was so
life like I knew I had to be an engineer. By the time I was old enough to be
hired Steam engs. & the Real NEW YORK CENTRAL were gone. To day I am an
engineer with CSX & thanks to MR. GILBERT & American Flyer the NEW YORK
CENTRAL still survives in My basement. With the help S HELPER & American
Models& just a little FLYONEL not much.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16787 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Poll results (so far)
So far there have been 41 respondents


11 in the 40 to 50 age group
21 in the 50 to 60 (more than 50% of sample so far)
9 in the 60 to 70


Of these 41:

28 model other gauges
7 own steam only
34 own both steam and diesel
9 own flyer only
3 own flyer and flionel
28 own something of Flyer, Flionel, SHS, AM or Other. (this makes me
wish I had asked about SHS and AM by themselves...)

I really just wanted to play with the poll feature...<G>

Are the people who are answering via e-mail also using the poll
program link?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16788 From: robbe_wan Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: SHS Switches
There have been some questions about SHS switches. I had one that was
acting very temperamental, and I was able to get it resolved. Please
click on the link below for details.

http://www.perryisp.net/~mkiner/SHS%20Switch.htm


The first pic. is around 240k so it will take a little while to load.
The others are very small.

Thanks,

Mark
Group: S-Trains Message: 16789 From: David A. Highfield Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Re: Influences?
Sharing Flyer stories is very interesting and therapeutic.

Mt father bought me Flyer when I was about 5 years old, c. 1950. First it
was a 332 DC and the aluminum passenger cars. He had a train table in the
basement of our home in Wilmington, Delaware that was attached to the wall
in such a way that it could be raised and lowered. The lowering took place
around Christmas time. So the green paper, track, and switches stayed
attached at all times. I too loved the smell of the smoke, squeezed from the
amber plastic nipple into a small funnel. I also loved the sound of the
whistle.

For a time, the original trains were packed away and soon the table was
dismantled. When my parents retired and moved to New Jersey, the trains were
divided between my brother and I. Eventually, my bother indicated that he
had little interest in American Flyer and returned his part of the
collection to me. Since the early 1974, except for one period of 3 1/2
years, the trains have been set up in my basement or in a fourth bedroom in
three different houses. When I searched for my present house, the main
criteria was a full, dry basement for the trains. I've added to the
collection over the years and just received the 2001 Christmas car (3 weeks
after Christmas) and Gabe (Flyonel). My layout, of course, is never
complete.

One sad note. My sons , age 27 and 31, are not interested in my trains. When
they visited at Christmas, they never asked to see the trains in the
basement. Instead, they were more interested in driving my new PT Cruiser. I
get the feeling that this may be typical, so I'm working on my grandson.
Everytime he visits we go to the basement to play with the trains. He is 18
months old!

Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 16790 From: ron inscho Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: http--www.trainweb.org-s-trains-track-dropndrag.htm
any one know how to make this work ?

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/track/dropndrag.htm


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16791 From: ron inscho Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Re: Influences?
So far all of these influence storys show one thing in common. That is that
the 30 yr. old & under crowd seem to have little or no interest in train of
any kind let any interest in S . This is something that the entire hobby not
just S must over come.And yet it is not the fault of the younger crowd as
trains were /are not a part of their daily life as it was for us . If you
were to ask most of 30 & under what trains are about they will tell all
that they know about trains is that they are something that impeeds their
travels when they have got to stop for one at a crossing . I see this every
day at work as they try to beat me and my train on the crossings.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David A. Highfield" <davidh@...>
To: "S-trains yahoo" <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>; "ron inscho"
<ronnat@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Influences?


> Sharing Flyer stories is very interesting and therapeutic.
>
> Mt father bought me Flyer when I was about 5 years old, c. 1950. First it
> was a 332 DC and the aluminum passenger cars. He had a train table in the
> basement of our home in Wilmington, Delaware that was attached to the wall
> in such a way that it could be raised and lowered. The lowering took place
> around Christmas time. So the green paper, track, and switches stayed
> attached at all times. I too loved the smell of the smoke, squeezed from
the
> amber plastic nipple into a small funnel. I also loved the sound of the
> whistle.
>
> For a time, the original trains were packed away and soon the table was
> dismantled. When my parents retired and moved to New Jersey, the trains
were
> divided between my brother and I. Eventually, my bother indicated that he
> had little interest in American Flyer and returned his part of the
> collection to me. Since the early 1974, except for one period of 3 1/2
> years, the trains have been set up in my basement or in a fourth bedroom
in
> three different houses. When I searched for my present house, the main
> criteria was a full, dry basement for the trains. I've added to the
> collection over the years and just received the 2001 Christmas car (3
weeks
> after Christmas) and Gabe (Flyonel). My layout, of course, is never
> complete.
>
> One sad note. My sons , age 27 and 31, are not interested in my trains.
When
> they visited at Christmas, they never asked to see the trains in the
> basement. Instead, they were more interested in driving my new PT Cruiser.
I
> get the feeling that this may be typical, so I'm working on my grandson.
> Everytime he visits we go to the basement to play with the trains. He is
18
> months old!
>
> Dave
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16792 From: gino restivo Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Re: baldwin grinder ?
hi chuck ,did it run before the repairs ?

i suggest you recheck you work ...
and check the brushs ,they have a cup that
fits to the barrel of the comutator, O)< this
is the brush ... you might have a brush on
an angle to the comutator ,look at it from
the the motor shaft end ....

remove the sideframe and wheels , see
how it runs , is something in the gears ?

ck to see if armature is hitting field ?
look at armature / field wiring to see if
it may have been fried

most baldwin do have some noise but
not that bad unless theirs a problem

hope this will help , gino

-----Original Message-----
From: chucky5741 <moochie@...>
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, January 20, 2002 3:45 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Hi! I am new here.


>My name is Chuck and I have been a American Flyer collector and
>operator since my Father bought my first engine in 1941, a few months
>before I was even born.
>I have just purchased a #21801 Baldwin Switcher and had to change
>brushes and brush holder. Also the new brushes I bought had the brush
>holders just a little too long so I adjusted them so that the brushes
>sit properly. Now my problem is the locomotive sounds like a coffee
>grinder as soon as I reinstall the wheels. When the motor is running
>free it is very smooth and quiet. I have checked the gears for burrs,
>and possible missing teeth and they are fine. Can anyone help???
>Thanks,
>Chuck
>moochie@...
>
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

----------------------------------------------------
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16793 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Chris: Your simplistic view
Hi,

Chris, it just dawned on me that your penchant for reducing everything to Boolean logic is correct. We really do only have two choices, whatever one wants to call them, yes/no; on/off; ying/yang; life/death.

It's a binary world,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16794 From: jahoozdumm Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Re: Influences?
My model railroading experience began at 2 years of age. My earliest
memory is that of being hoisted out of bed at some late hour to
witness my Dad and his Dad playing with what I would later find out
was "my" trainset. It was an AF 303 Atlantic set, not the most
expensive, but Grandad had added a few extra cars and some straight
track. Gramps was a consultant in the steel industry, and selected AF
S gauge for its realism. They had it set up in a big oval like one of
the pictures on the cardboard trestle boxtop. I arrived at the scene
just in time to see the 303 leap from a high curve to the floor as
Gramps got heavy-handed with the throttle. That's probably when the
metal whistle was broken off of the loco.

Until I was 6 or so, the trains came out only at Christmas. Hence,
toy trains are still very closely associated with that holiday in my
psyche (a fact that would be pivotal at a later date.) Once reaching
that age, my parents let me set the train up whenever I felt like it.
In an effort to teach me about "taking care of things", I was always
cautioned that I'd better treat the trains well, because they were
expensive (relative to other toys I had, anyway), and if they were
broken, there would be no replacements. It didn't take much to
trigger my cautious, perfectionist nature. I still have that very
set. The admonition toward extra care had a downside, though. It made
me a little nervous about actually playing with the things. Also,
the "too expensive" aura that my trains took on discouraged me from
seeking new items, even from "Santa". Plus, all my train-loving
friends had Lionel, so there was no encouragement from that camp.
Then there was the encroaching Jet Age (my Dad worked for a company
that made jet engine parts), Space Age (I hoped that "The Jetsons"
accurately previewed The Future), and numerous other distractions.
And then, railroads themselves became much less visible in everyday
life. All that led to an extended hiatus in my railroading interests.

But, the trainset stayed with me as a keepsake, a memento of Gramps.
Then, in 1981, I got married, and that pivotal moment arrived. Just
before our first Christmas together, my new wife found out I had an
old "electric train." "WHAT? Set it up around the tree! NOW!!" As I
already knew how to keep peace in the family, I complied. (Truth be
told, it didn't take anything in the way of threats to get me to set
up my old train. I was looking forward to it. But it always helps
when the wife-unit thinks what you want to do is her idea.)

We continued the "Christmas Train" custom until 1985 when we had, and
lost, our 1st and only baby. The whole ordeal was devastating, as I'm
sure any of you can imagine. My wife and I are both Christians, and
so, we sought our Lord for healing. He began the process in a way we
never expected.

My wife had been asking the Lord to get us involved in
some "recreational activity" we could enjoy together. One day, we
were gazing in the window of a hobby shop that dealt in used toy
trains, and we noticed some AF stuff. "Hey, y'know what we should do?
We should start a Christmas tradition of buying a new train car for
our train each year!" chimed the wife. So we bought a 937 Katy
boxcar, our new acquisition for 1985.

About six months later, we had some 40 cars and two more locomotives.
So much for "tradition". We'd found our recreational therapy.

In 1987 we built a permanent Christmas layout that we add to each
year (features, not track), and we also have a 14 section modular
layout that we set up publicly when circumstances allow. We keep part
of it set up in a loft over our garage.

I don't know (personally) about trains helping to form a bond between
fathers and sons, but it certainly has played a part with my wife and
me. Our marriage wouldn't fall apart without them by any means, but
our trains definitely serve to reinforce our relationship.

We both enjoy trainwatching, and occasionally find time to sit at
Fullerton Station watching BNSF freights charge by at 50+ mph, or
peoplewatching as passengers unload from the Surfliner, the Southwest
Chief, or Metrolink.

Our personal interest in model railroading is closely tied to real
trains, especially as they are now. If railroading ceased as an
active, viable industry in the real world, I'm not sure model
railroading would continue to hold our interest. That's one reason
why we tend to model the present time. Nostalgia is nice, but it gets
old (sorry) after a while. We tried collecting AF up to about the
early '90s, but most of what we don't already have is too expensive
for us. Also, the maintenance-intensive side of Gilbert locos has not
left me with an overriding urge to add any more to our Gilbert
roster. All that has led us to buy AM and SHS almost exclusively for
the last ten years, God bless 'em. Collecting Gilbert has slowed to a
virtual stop, and as for Flyonel, don't get me started on THAT!

As to the "Budding scientist/engineer/whatever" aspect of toy train
exposure, having an electric train did spark (sorry again) an early
interest in electrical and mechanical things. More importantly, I
have found that getting back into trains has stirred several latent
interests in me that have been dormant for decades, such as in
vehicles of all kinds, architecture, art, even American history.
Would a Playstation do that for its youthful operator in 30 years? I
dunno...


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16795 From: Steve Blancard Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: How I got into S gauge..
Here's my story for what its worth:

My mother died when I was 4 and I had no siblings, just my dad and I.
As a result I spent a lot of time home alone in the summers and after
school. We didn't have much money so I never got a new train set. But
one day when I was about 8 (about 1966) my dad brought home a box of
used American Flyer trains. As I recall there was a Hudson and a silver
GP-7, some freight cars, a Brownhoist crane, an assortment of track, 2
manual switches and a big transformer with dead man's handle. I spent
many endless hours playing with that set making various layouts on our
apartment floor. I remember laying with my face on the floor, eye as
close as possible to the track with the big Hudson roaring past,
imagining that I was on the edge of a real track as the great behemoth
thundered by (OK, I admit I still do this!) I especially liked the
crane. I would spend hours picking up and moving an assortment of
things with it. I used to lure the cat onto the tracks with a few bits
of hard cat food and then, at just the right moment throw the throttle
full on and try to run the cat over. I never did succeed but I did get
him to jump high in the air a few times. I loved that old train set, it
was my favorite toy for many years.

Now that I have brought my trains back out 30 some odd years later my 13
& 16 year old boys have taken them over and play endlessly with them.
Their HO set is gathering dust. I have been buying more used track (and
other goodies) lately. I won't let them use the used track until I get
it cleaned up so they are constantly sending orders to the maintenance
shop for "more track". The maintenance superintendent has been swamped
with track orders the last week and while outwardly grumbling about the
endless workload, is secretly thrilled that they are having as much fun
as he did 35 years ago.

I am having wonderful time re-living my childhood through the trains and
am especially happy that I've found something that we all can do
together.

Steve Blancard
Fredericksburg, Virginia
Group: S-Trains Message: 16796 From: Alan Evans Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: ESE and SF E-8 for Sale
List members:

Have two (2) AC 4-car Empire State Express sets and one (1) chrome
AC SF E-8 for sale.

Contact me off list if interested.

- Alan Evans
Group: S-Trains Message: 16797 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: SMOKE FLUID
Thanks to all that have ordered smoke fluid from me. The response was far
more than I expected. As such I will be sending it out in Glass bottles
instead of Plastic . Anyone that would prefer plastic it will be about a week
longer, the plastic bottles are on their way.

Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16798 From: roy inman Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: trainstart
Hi all;
My first train came at Christmas, 1947.
We lived in Kansas City, MO at the time.
Then my dad went into business with an Army buddy who had started a boat
manufacturing company on a lake near Three Rivers, MI.
After only a few months, the whole thing went belly-up (fitting for a boat
company, no?).
All the time, that train survived moves, being hauled around on the roof of
my dad's old '42 Chevy, and even for almost a year when we lived in the old
car. Dad finally got back to work about October and we moved into an
apartment that fall of '49.
Have to tell you that train running around the tree was sort of like a
symbol that things were back to what we then called "normal." One of the few
times I ever saw dad cry.
The train, however, was NOT an American Flyer. It was the three rail
variety.
While I was overjoyed with the L set, I really wanted a Flyer.
So, lo those many years later when I could buy my own toys, I started a
modest AF collection; first the vintage Gilbert, then the LAF, and shortly
thereafter, added SHS and AM.
Sixty years old, BS Advertising, MA Photojournalism.
Boy, that doesn't take much space, does it?
Kind regards to all.
Roy Inman
Group: S-Trains Message: 16799 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Flyer Liquidation
Check out this list of Flyer. According to the seller's copy, he is
liquidating a hobby shop in Pittsburgh. Some interesting stuff.

http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=ho.trainman
&include=0&since=-1&sort=2&rows=25

This is a long URL. You may have to cut and paste it into your browser's
address window.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16800 From: ironhors@swbell.net Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Re: academic titles
Bente Velapoldi wrote:

> I thought PhD only meant piled higher and deeper.
>
> jarcho@... wrote:
>
> > Hey Bob: how does MMFE sound? That stands for Master of Microferroequinology.
> >
> > Tom Jarcho
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

and MS means More of the Same on the way to PhD.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16801 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Set contents (was Re: Influences?)
In his reminiscence, David said:
>it was a 332 DC and the aluminum passenger cars.

Did the 332 DC come with the aluminum cars as a set? If so, which cars and
how many?
I have a 332 DC and run it with these cars. It pulls 9 of them with ease.
(On AC with a full wave bridge and a capacitor in the tender.) I would like
to put the exact catalog consist together some time, if for no other reason
than to say I did.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16802 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Re: Choices
White Meat or Dark, P.F. Flyers or Keds, Cat or Dog, Liberal or
Conservative, the list is long.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16803 From: rfgiardina Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Smoke Fluid
There were actually 2 different formulas. We use the original one. It
was designed specifically for the Flyer style unit. The reason is
that the later formula was made up of mostly mineral oil. While it
may be easier to make, mineral oil tends to gum up and eventually
clog and burn out the smoke units. The original formula can even
clean, to some extent, smoke units that mineral oil has been used in.
Lionel fluid is mineral oil and so are several others.

RFG
Group: S-Trains Message: 16804 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Smoke Fluid
RFG Is correct in his posting that there were two different formulas The
first having Shell Deserol type 20 Kerosene as an ingredient With the ratio
of 17:1 kero to cedar The second statement of the mineral oil is also
correct. The use of the First is very toxic as I had the first analyzed. Any
use of this type is not a safe way to go. I use a different vehicle to
deliver the cedar (which must be the correct type not just any type) I do not
use mineral oil. If any have tried the first trials #1 #2 & #3 you will all
remember the results #4 is the correct combo of ingredients which produce the
correct scent and will not gum up any wick, but in fact will tend to soften
them... Mike S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16805 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Smoke Fluid
RFG Is correct in his posting that there were two different formulas The
first having Shell Deserol type 20 Kerosene as an ingredient With the ratio
of 17:1 kero to cedar The second statement of the mineral oil is also
correct. The use of the First is very toxic as I had the first analyzed. Any
use of this type is not a safe way to go. I use a different vehicle to
deliver the cedar (which must be the correct type not just any type) I do not
use mineral oil. If any have tried the first trials #1 #2 & #3 you will all
remember the results #4 is the correct combo of ingredients which produce the
correct scent and will not gum up any wick, but in fact will tend to soften
them... Mike S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16806 From: fkopetz2000 Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: My Story....
Here's my tale, for everyone.

I'm going to turn 40 in 13 days from now. I have a BA in
Sociology/Pre-Law, and a JD (Juris Doctor)degree earned after that.
Took the bar once, failed same, but am in no big hurry to take it
again since I have a well-paying non-legal job and the bar and review
course is a big expense. Still, hope to get admitted to the legal
profession before I hit 50. Also did some work towards an MA in
History.

I have an interesting Train History. I got my first train set (a
Flyer set) from an uncle at two. I barely remember it, but know it
was a common five-digit discount set with a 21160 Atlantic, Pennsy
gondola, Gulf tanker & red caboose. I have a duplicate of it now.

I got my second and third sets together the next Christmas; the more
expensive one being a Flyer Champion 800 All-Aboard set that I'm
still looking to pick up at some point. (Nearly had one last summer,
but a car accident and car rental wiped out the money I had set aside
to buy a mint, unopened set on eBay. AARRGHHH!) Well, I have a
Pioneer 600 now. :-) The third set I was given was a Lionel
uncatalogued set, five cars with a 1062 steam engine, and trestle
set.

I also remember seeing quite a few trains when I was young.
Allentown, PA, where I grew up, was Lehigh Valley, Reading Company,
and Central of New Jersey territory in the 60's and 70's. We also had
relatives in Philadelphia, (where I got to ride Reading Blueliners
and Silverliners a lot on the commuter rail system), and up in
Hazelton in the anthracite coal regions, which means I saw a lot of
Reading coal drags with green and yellow c630's and SD's on the
front, and a lot of local Lehigh Valley runs in Hazleton with 2 to
three of the dirtiest SW-8's imaginable on the point. My uncle's
house was right near the LV tracks in Hazleton, so of course a ritual
was to run out on the portch, wave at the engineer, and watch the
train go by whenever I heard the crossing signal going off. I also
got exposed to steam by visits to the WK & S tourist line in western
Lehigh County and a few trips to the East Broad Top. Of course, I was
exposed to electrics on the Philly commuter lines and also was
exposed to GG-1's on Amtrak when going up to see my half-brother in
Boston in the early 70's leaving from 30th Street Station where the
high point was seeing the big black GG-1 come blasting in and being
terrified by it. So, I learned to like steam, diesel, and electric
all at an early age.

During the 70's both the Lionel and Flyer collections were added to
bit by bit by Christmas gifts (for the new MPC Lionel in vogue then)
and by me spending my allowance and work earnings on Flyer and
postwar Lionel. Had a combined Flyer and Lionel layout for a while.
Sold the trains in the early 80's around the time my mother passed
on. Got into one marriage where the wife never encouraged collecting.
After a divorce, I met an old friend and remarried. My current wife
is more tolerant of trains than my former spouse, and a nice Sunday
excusrion for us is looking at both trains at a hobby shop in
Feasterville (and getting something, either L or Flyer, as the budget
permits) and then going around the corner to a comic shop to look at
and buy comic books or anime-related books or toys as the budget
permits. We both appreciate and like each other's hobbies...trains,
comics, history, science fiction, and the Beatles.

All in all, Gail and I have fun together, and she likes my Flyer and
L action cars. What more can one ask?

Regards,

F.P. Kopetz

PS-we're also cat people. I mean, we have one playful cat, an orange
tabby cat named Felix. He likes to play with my trains, too.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16807 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] re: Choices
I say Chevy over Ford. Please tell me that you picked cat and liberal
that will make my day.

Oh Boy! Trains!...................Herky 1950
Obie Bell



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16808 From: ron inscho Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Re: Choices
We always had Hudsons & Nashes no pets & voted independent
----- Original Message -----
From: <bellokdaka@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 12:43 AM
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] re: Choices


> I say Chevy over Ford. Please tell me that you picked cat and liberal
> that will make my day.
>
> Oh Boy! Trains!...................Herky 1950
> Obie Bell
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16809 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] The Flyonel Conundrum
Then again maybe the object is not to guage the market, but to produce a
broad line to make sure that all the little Chinese children can turn
them out.

Oh Boy! Trains!.................Herky 1950
Obie Bell




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16810 From: frilen2 Date: 1/20/2002
Subject: Train Start and Restart
My story is a familiar one. I became involve with American Flyer at
the ripe old age of 3 months, Christmas 1948. There is still an
old 8-mm movie of me propped up under the tree, while being circled
by a 312.

My Mom actually bought the set (4607 I think) for my Dad. He never
had an electric train as a child, only a wind-up. (I gave him a
wind-up AF #15 locomotive, train set as a Christmas present the year
before he past away, but that's another story.)

Dad and I had a great time with that old set. It soon circled a 4x8
Railroad empire in the basement; complete with painted lake and a
requisite Plasticville town and picket fence. (I still have a small
scare under my eye where I became impaled on that fence by falling
off a chair trying to get a better look.)
A 370 diesel was added later. Mom got a new wash machine and Polk
Bros. here in Chicago included a 5112T set as a giveaway promotion.

The American Flyer was always well played with until slot car racing
came into vogue. Then it was packed away for some 20 odd years.
Coming out only occasionally at Christmas for my children in the
80's. Parts and maintenance were needed, and I didn't know where to
look for information. So again the AF was packed away.

About 4 years ago my wife and I picked up a copy of Classic Toy
Trains for my brother-in-law, he collects Lionel. Even though that
magazine is heavy on "O" gauge, the glimmer of AMERICAN FLYER
shown thru. I don't think that I ever gave him the copy of that
magazine, I wore the print off the pages. Here were ads for Hobby
Surplus Sale, S-Helper, Portlines, R.F. Giardina, Ron Leventon's and
American Models.
Within short order, I located S-Gaugian. Here, finally, was the
storehouse of information I was looking for. That was all I needed to
rekindle my interest. My quest for more information, and more
American Flyer, began.

Since then I've been pleasantly hooked again on American Flyer,
joining both the NASG and the old American Flyer Collectors Club.

It's been great fun.
I've met some really great friends all because of this hobby.
How do you put a value on that?
Enjoy...Karl Raab
Group: S-Trains Message: 16811 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: Another poll
In a message dated 01/20/2002 9:08:55 PM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> , I
> wonder if a poll of our ages might be relevant to our interest? The reason
>
> I pose this question is that I am curious to know how many of us were
> around
> during the latter part of the railroad steam age and if we were, could that
>
> have had an influence on our choice of hobbies?
>
>

I'm 63 and used to walk the tracks picking up coal that fell off
tenders....Love the smell of burning coal. Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16812 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: How it all got started
It's kind of cool hearing all you other folks out there's stories. Mine is a
little different from most in that my parents NEVER bought me an American
Flyer train set. My two best pals in the little town of Rigby Idaho where I
grew up had a whole basement full of Lionel. Their Dad owned the 5c & 10c
store in town and was the local Lionel dealer. I played with their stuff
almost every day. On Christmas Day of 1947 when I was 9 yr. old we went to my
cousins house which was the custom in those days. Actually spent the entire
day visiting all the Aunts and Uncles and Grandparents. When I got to my
cousin Jacks house in Idaho Falls he had an American Flyer set running around
the tree. My first comment was to ask him why it only had two rails. He
proudly spoke up that "this is American Flyer and it uses real two rail
track." I was hooked. I spent the next 3 Christmas's begging my parents for
American Flyer. They just didn't have the money to do so and it never
happened. I did get a real cheesy Marx set for my 12th birthday and promptly
ran it to death. We had moved to California by that time and my Dad was a
little better off financially. My younger brother got a Marx set too a couple
of years later and I helped him run that. I joined the Air Force when I was
17 and spent the years 1955-1959 in the service. I had only been home about a
week and was walking in our neighborhood when I saw a bunch of junk setting
out on some peoples front lawn. They were having a "yard sale." First time I
ever heard that term. In a huge box was a Flyer near-miss set from 1957 with
a 293 and 13 cars. Also a barrel loader and about a mile of track and
switches and light towers etc. I bought it all for $20. Still have every
piece to this day except the track. That was in Sept 1959 and I have never
looked back. Guess railroading is in the blood. My Grandfather and 3 of his
brothers all worked on the UP. My Uncle was the section chief on the line
from Rigby to the Montana border. The wife and I go somewhere every summer
and ride a steam train. Can't get that smell of burning coal out of my
system....Steve>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16813 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: Re: Choices
I think our Hudson ownership was soured with a 1938 model! It had the distributor
somewhat low (on the engine??? - I seem to remember it had something to do with the
rear of the car - oh well, I was only 4-5 at the time). Unfortunately, everytime we
drove it in the rain, the distributor got wet and the car "died" until the
distributor was dried (or something). We never owned another Hudson, but switched to
Pontiacs, Buicks, etc. after that!

One comment - everything isn't always at the extremes of the two choices - the
"maybes" and the shades between black and white open whole new possibilities for
choices - and who knows, there may be other options outside of the extremes that we
don't even know about as yet!! (Note: I really am not an optimist!)
Rance

ron inscho wrote:

> We always had Hudsons & Nashes no pets & voted independent
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <bellokdaka@...>
> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 12:43 AM
> Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] re: Choices
>
> > I say Chevy over Ford. Please tell me that you picked cat and liberal
> > that will make my day.
> >
> > Oh Boy! Trains!...................Herky 1950
> > Obie Bell
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16814 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: 2 choices
Chris: I think you crossed decades. Shouldn't it have been
Elvis or Pat Boone; Beatles or Stones? Your logic seems to
follow "Positioning" (Al Ries & Jack Trout) which promotes the
two choices: Coke or Pepsi = Linonel or Flyer. I guess Marx
was the Royal Crown cola of trains. In retrospect, Positioning
explains why Lionel could not match the sucess of Erector
with their construction sets : Lionel meant trains, American Flyer
meant trains, Erector meant construction toy, Lionel could not
also mean construction toy anymore than Xerox can mean
computer. Also, everyone probably knows that Gilbert's change
to S Gauge allowed him to be number 1 in the "S" category
rather than #2 in "0". Nobody remembers who was the second
person to fly solo across the Atlantic but they all know #3
because she was the first (#1) woman. Gilbert was ahead of
the marketing books. Now it's time to go off to work and do
real marketing. --- Nick
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 22:05:23 -0500
> From: Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...>
>Subject: re: Fwd:The Myth of Toy Trains (was Re: degree survey explanation)
>
>Obie Bell wrote:
>>I got to descriptions of life's
>>choices and how they correlate and my vision of the pipe-smoking Dad
>>turned into the little girl with her head spinning around spitting out
>>pea soup in the Exorcist.
>
>Yikes!
>
>I knew someone was going to take me to task for the choices, but I stand by
>it. And I left out:
>Yankees or Dodgers; Burger King or McDonald's; Chocolate or Vanilla; PC or
>Mac; VHS or Beta; The Beatles or Elvis; Nestle's Quik or Bosco; Life or
>Death. There really are only two choices.
>
>Chris Zizzo
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16815 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: Re: Choices
Chris,

Howdy Doody or Mickey Mouse; Bonanza or Gunsmoke; Popcorn or peanuts; inside or outside; school or play; friends or alone; trains or - hey wait a minute - the alternative is unthinkable!

Keeping the dreams alive,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
To: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 11:38 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] re: Choices


> White Meat or Dark, P.F. Flyers or Keds, Cat or Dog, Liberal or
> Conservative, the list is long.
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16816 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: More surveys
If we are going to have more surveys, why not agree on
what additional questions would be of interest..such
as

Many of us packed our flyer trains away after our
youth, or moved on to HO , N, etc. What event caused
you to pick up the interest in your flyer trains again?

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Group: S-Trains Message: 16817 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: Help! with S-Trains poll
Greetings,

I tried to get into the S-Train poll but wound up with a windo stating
"Oops, you are not a member of the S-Trains group." I think I am. I've
been receiving the digest form of the list since about issue 60 or so.
I've been at chat, alone, but there. I've found things on the files
list. Help! (I might have forgotten my password, but I think is would
have told me something like that.)

Thanks,

Bill Trefts
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16818 From: jfrr54 Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: How it all got started.
For me the usual way. Christmas 1958. I came out and saw a Silver
Flash set running around the tree. Later my dad would buy extra
track, switches, accessories for birthdays, tonsils taken out and the
like. In 1960 we moved to a bigger house. My dad built a train table
and we put my train on it as well as his old Lionel standard gauge tin
plate. I think the trains were as much fun for him as they were for
me. We added trestles and action cars. I learned how to wire things
and about electricity. We never did figure out how to solve the short
we got when we added a cross track to the layout. When I was about
13, we put the trains away. Too many other activities, and Gilbert was
going out of business. Two years ago, we took the trains down from the
attic at the suggestion of my wife. I took over the garage and well
I've been busy with them ever since. Now I've even read how to deal
with the crossover track situation, although my layout has no need for
a crossover track. It's fun.
John Rodgers
Group: S-Trains Message: 16819 From: reefman@voicenet.com Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: Re: Influences?
I've made a conserted effort to expose my 7 year old and 4 year old grandsons to my
trains. I take them to at least two or three shows a year. The seven year old has become
quite knowledgeable, and will correct people when they make mistakes on a locos name. He
loves high speed trains, so my layout has a Thalys, and a TGV in HO, running next to my
American Flyer, to keep his interest.
The four year old is learning, and he loves to push the button on the AF airchime. He
also likes to run the trains, but hasn't yet learned that trains don't prototypically go
forward and reverse every 15 seconds, but he's learning. I only let him do that with the
HO's. 8^)
We also have a Granddaughter, born Sept. 14th.
I had my eye on that pink three rail I saw in the catalog recently....hhmmmmm....maybe I
could repaint an old Atlantic in pink.
Doug

> So far all of these influence storys show one thing in common. That is that
> the 30 yr. old & under crowd seem to have little or no interest in train of
> any kind let any interest in S . This is something that the entire hobby not
> just S must over come.And yet it is not the
>



---------------------------------------------
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16820 From: Euell Johnson Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: poll
Dad had a Studebaker (no Nashes or Hudsons here!).

Got the first AF at Christmas 1947, with the link coupling. Every Christmas we added cars, track, switches, etc. While the AF stuff was smaller than L, it looked much more real. One day we were going to put it on a permanent layout in the basement. Never happened! But we did fill the living room with train. Had tunnels under the Christmas tree. What a memory!!

Euell


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16821 From: David Dewey Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: Re: Choices
I'm a Stanley man myself, just can afford the whole car, so I have an engine
from a '16 out in the storage shed! I'd be Doble guy, but they're more
expensive than Rolls Royces--and their upkeep's about as expensive!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16822 From: David Dewey Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: Re: 2 choices--marketing
Speaking of marketing, I think it was Murray Roamer who mentioned that ACG
recognized early on that it was Mom who did a lot of the toy purchasing, so
much of their marketing was subliminally aimed at her. Too bad the
cleverness didn't seem to trickle down to his son. In some ways his
leadership was similar to Henry Ford's. Very innovative in the early years,
but antiquated in the later years. Hmm.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16823 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: don't give up!
Hey guys before we knock the youngins', we need to give them a chance. My
panel set again returned to my 5th grade classroom for the holidays. Four
classrooms of kids played with them including kids staying in at lunch and
after school. Just an oval with a 303 smoker and some pikemaster cars. I
had the first major casualty, a shell tanker was knocked off the table and
broke a coupler. I'm still waiting for you guys to send me all that
pikemaster stuff you hate so much ; )

Last year I bought some junkers at a TCA show and asked if any of my students
wanted to help me rebuild them at lunch. I could have done it myself, but
why not. I had up to 15 kids staying in at lunch, and 5 of them continued
for a month. A Silver Bullet and a 302 Atlantic were returned from the dead.
We also repaired one student's father's 322. I asked my current class if
they would be interested in the same thing. I got a definate, "YES!"

The kids are interested and with a little encouragement, I think that many
Flyer fans could be produced. My 7 year old has a Franklin set and an
Atlantic freight set. My 5 year old got his first Casey Jones set. It's
hard to see the trains leave my collection to theirs, but if they get hooked,
the trains will run a lot longer than I will.

Jacques the Junkman's Home for Unwanted Pikemaster and Parts Boxes.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16824 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: SETS/AD?
Many ( A few) of you had asked about AF or S sets there is a guy who has
bought about 50 Atlantics. He is going to make up sets to sell. He will also
custom paint them to any road name you would like.. If interested contact him
at Thefatearl@... Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16825 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: Choices
In a message dated 01/21/2002 12:24:17 PM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> I say Chevy over Ford. Please tell me that you picked cat and liberal
> that will make my day.
>
> Oh Boy! Trains!...................Herky 1950
> Obie Bell
>
>
> Well, you got one of the three right, IMHO..Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16826 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: Re: don't give up!
In a message dated 1/21/02 1:39:18 PM, Jollivier4@... writes:

<< Hey guys before we knock the youngins', we need to give them a chance. >>

I've noticed that there is a small (non-scientific estimate of ~10% of the
greater total) but quite distinct group of folks in their early 30's who are
serious about collecting and operating original Gilbert and Lionel-built
Flyer. Interesting -- in that the "guys" in this age group were not around
for the first pass and the glory days of Gilbert S gauge.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 16827 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: WP observation car
Greetings, was unsuccessful searching the "net' for a WP, California Zephyr
Observation Car. Anyone in the group know where I might be able to locate
one of these? Thanks in advance for any help you can provide! Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 16828 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: grade elevations/trestles
I can't seem to find a reference I know I've seen on making grades and
using AF trestles. Can someone tell me how far from a switch (turnout)
does the first AF trestle need to be placed? How high can I
realistically raise the track (just going up and stopping) over a
distance of 30" on a dead end siding?

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO
Group: S-Trains Message: 16829 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] Choices
I only made one pick Chevy, the balance was just a catty response to
Chris's previous letter. My picks would have been dog and conservative
and it would please me to know we're complete opposites....which either
way is immaterial to the reason that we're all on this list and that is,
of course FLYER.

Oh Boy! Trains!................Herky 1950
Obie Bell



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16830 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: how it started
In The Begining: I wanted a trainset REALLY badly-and
we had a family friend who(GASP!)worked at Gilbert.So
for Christmas in 1955, I got my first trainset-a 293
pulling a Gulf tanker, MoPac cattle, CNJ hopper, and
caboose. Wish i still had the box-that set SHOULD have
had a Meteor boxcar, right? It came from the Gilbert
factory store, but I do not remember the packaging.(I
picked up a variant of the Keystone defender set
awhile back ,box labeled for "Richie Premium Co." with
3 800 freights, an Atlantic smoker, Gulf tanker, and
missile launcher flat-transformer, decoupler, and
cardboard tressel set.Anyone know anything about THAT
set?) Anyway, was I thrilled. Mom helped to
make(allright, SHE made it)a tunnel out of a V8 can
and papier mache',
and I ran that baby every Christmas-in my Father's
house, the trains were seasonal. In 1961, my Mom's
Godson got married and gave me his Lionel-1950, the
year I waws born-2023 UP(yellow and grey), 2046 4-6-4,
and track, switches, tranny, freight cars, a baby
Madison set, and a pre-war 200 series passenger set
with knuckle trucks-a very neat conversion, maybe
Madison hardware.The trains ran yearly til 69, and
didn't re-emerge til 1986.That's when I decided I'd
get more Flyer,and stop there, cuz L was too pricey.10
years later, I had pretty much all the Flyer i
wanted-a 334 is about all i need now, tho' I'm
waiting for some new Flyonel to catch my eye(last was
the Silver Flash set)(and no, I'm not holding my
breath)>Then I discovered Tinplate 0-and then Standard
gauge.Hoo boy. Today I have around 100 engines, say 60
AF S, the rest Flyer by Coleman-Metzler and Gilbert,
L, MTH, Marx, Ives in 0 and Standard, with plenty of
rolling stock for all. My favorite is Flyer- next fave
is Ives. I am also an avid model builder, WW1 and
Golden Age aircraft being my favorites, but WW2 and a
few of those strange propless things are plentiful, as
well as cars and ships. I have a BA in history, 12
credits toward an MA, am "father" to 5 dogs, 2
rabbits, 2 parrots, and live with the former lil' girl
next door (only knew each other for 40 years, not
ready to commit yet).If I ever finish my layout, it'll
have S and 0 -two loops of each on a 15'x15' table(one
loop 0 and 2 S already installed). Standard is so far
the Christmas tree layout-but that may change as i get
such a kick out of those Giant Toy Trains From
Hell-and so does Jeanne-she hates anything
non-tinplate.Oh yes-conservative, gun owning fisherman
environmentalist Catholic longhair rocknroller is as
close to a description of me you'll come up with.keep
'em rolling, guys-if ya were supposed to keep 'em in
boxes, the wheels wouldn't be round-john marganski

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Group: S-Trains Message: 16831 From: Al Paolozzi Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: Box car door
Does anyone have a junker operating box car (734) with the operating door (tuscan). I am looking for one (door) to restore a piece that i have without the door. If anyone has one that they would like to sell contact me off list. Thanks AL Paolozzi
amflyral@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16832 From: David Dewey Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: the MTH 787 Log Loader--problems??
Hi all,
I have two of these puppies sitting in my living room (long story about
why two, but it's irrelevant to this posting). One has a bind on every
revolution of the main gear--the one the can motor worm engages. It is such
a bind that the motor stalls there at under about 8 volts. Even at 15 volts
the motor slows way down there, giving the loader a kind of lurching
movement, and making a loud grinding noise. The other one runs much better,
although it does slow down a little bit at one spot in each revolution of
the drive gear. It will run at the lowest transformer (1-1/2) setting. This
one does have a less loud gear noise, that varies a little bit at that slow
spot.
So, anyone else having problems? And anyone had any luck communicating
with MTH?
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16833 From: ron inscho Date: 1/21/2002
Subject: Re: the MTH 787 Log Loader--problems??
Look for any bent shafts or any binding points in the gear train & any where
else things get close mine runs good so far ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 1:24 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] the MTH 787 Log Loader--problems??


> Hi all,
> I have two of these puppies sitting in my living room (long story
about
> why two, but it's irrelevant to this posting). One has a bind on every
> revolution of the main gear--the one the can motor worm engages. It is
such
> a bind that the motor stalls there at under about 8 volts. Even at 15
volts
> the motor slows way down there, giving the loader a kind of lurching
> movement, and making a loud grinding noise. The other one runs much
better,
> although it does slow down a little bit at one spot in each revolution of
> the drive gear. It will run at the lowest transformer (1-1/2) setting.
This
> one does have a less loud gear noise, that varies a little bit at that
slow
> spot.
> So, anyone else having problems? And anyone had any luck communicating
> with MTH?
> S'
> David D.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
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>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16834 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Re: Corgi
We are a Corgi dealer for their PCC offerings. I had an inquiry about the
fire trucks recently. The area rep exolaained these are "box Models" which
means they are made to fit the packaging. Some might be 1/64 and others may
not.
Tom D.
----- Original Message -----
From: "TED R LARSON" <mhrreast@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 2:44 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Corgi


> Somebody recently posted information about an on-line dealer selling
> Corgi 1/64th vehicles.
> The website cautions that the vehicles might vary from actual 1/64th
> scale.
> I have some of the Corgi (ex - Lledo) vehicles.
>
> Check this URL for a photo of them with Hartoy and Mint Editions trucks.
> http://www.trainweb.org/mhrr/mhrreast/corgi.html
>
>
> Ted Larson
> ADULT: A person who has stopped growing at
> both ends and is now growing in the middle.
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16835 From: Thomas Davis Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Re: Corgi
Just recently I bought three of the Corgi fire trucks at a diecast car shop
in Hendersonville, NC. They are nicely done, and look good with my K-Line
fire house.

Tom Davis, Brevard, NC



>From: Thomas@...
>To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>, <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com>, "TED R LARSON"
><mhrreast@...>
>Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Corgi
>Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 05:48:22 -0500
>
>We are a Corgi dealer for their PCC offerings. I had an inquiry about the
>fire trucks recently. The area rep exolaained these are "box Models" which
>means they are made to fit the packaging. Some might be 1/64 and others may
>not.
>Tom D.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "TED R LARSON" <mhrreast@...>
>To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 2:44 PM
>Subject: [S-Trains] Corgi
>
>
> > Somebody recently posted information about an on-line dealer selling
> > Corgi 1/64th vehicles.
> > The website cautions that the vehicles might vary from actual 1/64th
> > scale.
> > I have some of the Corgi (ex - Lledo) vehicles.
> >
> > Check this URL for a photo of them with Hartoy and Mint Editions trucks.
> > http://www.trainweb.org/mhrr/mhrreast/corgi.html
> >
> >
> > Ted Larson
> > ADULT: A person who has stopped growing at
> > both ends and is now growing in the middle.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
>s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
>s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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Group: S-Trains Message: 16836 From: dougwyatt Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Scenery Unlimited Bridge
Does anyone have the measurements of Scenery Unlimited's Reversible
Deck(#106) and Flat Top Thru Trestle(#109) Bridges?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16837 From: roberte613@aol.com Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Flyer Christmas Car Photos
Hi,

Does anyone know where I can find pictures of each year's AF Christmas cars
on the web?

Thanks,

Robert E.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16838 From: ljack70117@adelphia.net Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Re: Hi! I am new here.
Was you 41 flyer S scale???
Mine was a steam engine in O scale.
Thank you
Larry Jackman

chucky5741 wrote:
>
> My name is Chuck and I have been a American Flyer collector and
> operator since my Father bought my first engine in 1941, a fe
Group: S-Trains Message: 16839 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Lionel Catalog
This was posted on the TTML (TCA List).
I present it here without comment.
Chris Zizzo


Message: 20
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:34:08 EST
From: rgeorge942@...
Subject: Re: Lionel Catalog 2002v1

Has anyone noticed that many of the b&w background photos, depicting a toy
train right-of-way, are actually shots of an s-gauge track that Lionel
doesn't even make!
Bob George
Group: S-Trains Message: 16840 From: mlmarmer Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Ebay description
Below is a Ebay description of a 647 NP Reefer that went for $13. At least this person added some humor at the end, "like new" and the roof doesn't leak! It looked awful!

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD

Except for the silver paint spots, rub marks, tiny chip out of one corner, one end walk bent a bit and discolored base, this car is like new. The good news is, both replacement knuckle couplers work and the roof doesn't leak. Kinda looks like a real car sitting on a siding that has been around a while. Lucky buyer pays an additional $4.00 S&H with check or money order.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16841 From: Lance McCold Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
My S-buddy and I have been trying to decide what kind of S-scale modules we
want to make. We both want to make the layout and the equipment as close to
scale as possible. But we would also like to be able to run our AF
equipment and let other people do the same. Lots of study has led us to the
conclusion that code 125 track is the best available compromise, but then
you have problems with the switches. If we limit Flyer equipment to running
only on the main line not switching, perhaps we can choose switches that
work with scale wheels, but also allow Flyer wheels to work as long as it
stays on the straight route.

In puzzling over this problem, I decided to measure some wheels. This is
what I found:

Plastic Flyer wheels are about 0.22 in. thick. The flanges are 0.09 in.
high and 0.085 in. thick where they meet the tread. The flanges on diesel
and steam locomotives is about the same size.

Ace and S-helper high-rail wheels are 0.17 in thick. Both have flanges that
are 0.060 in. high and a tad over 0.060in thick.

Scale wheels from Ace, SHS and a Pacific Rail Shops kit have wheels that
are between 0.111 and 0.125 in. thick. The flanges are all close to 0.030
in. high and 0.030 in. thick.

The high-rail wheels work flawlessly on Flyer track. Because they have
flanges that are only 0.060 inches high, high-rail wheels should also do
fine on code 100 or even code 83 track. (Flyer rail is 0.220 in. high, code
220!)

S is small and it is further divided by the scale-vs.-American Flyer
division. Most scale guys would be happy running on code 100 or code 83
rail. What we need are wheels for the Flyer and high-rail crowds that have
flanges 0.060 in. high and 0.030 in. thick. The 0.030 in. thick flanges
would seem to allow the wheels to work with scale switches. Then the
under-the-Christmas-tree folks would continue to have reliable operation
with poor track, but they could also run on (most of) the same track as the
scale guys. (OK, probably not on code 70 rail and definitely not on smaller
rail.) The biggest hurdle is the millions of Flyer wheels already out
there. Lionel is the only maker of S-gauge equipment that continues to use
0.090 in. flanges.

Could NASG develop a standard high-rail wheel the has a 0.060 in high,
0.030 in thick flange? Could NASG convince Lionel to adopt it? If retrofit
high-rail wheels were available for old Flyer equipment would I be the only
one to make the conversion?

I am probably forgetting some obvious problems. Let the other thoughts begin.

Lance McCold
Knoxville, TN
Group: S-Trains Message: 16842 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: lamp covers for switches
If you were looking for some swich covers please contact me .K


Keith


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Group: S-Trains Message: 16843 From: Al Paolozzi Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Re: Speeding up MTH coal loader
Would the s-member that provided the info on speeding up the MTH coal loader
be so kind as to provide it again. I now have a loader that i want to speed
up. Thanks, AL amflyral@...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lance McCold" <lancemccold@...>
To: "S-Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 7:32 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Speeding up MTH coal loader


> I tried John Gasal's technique with good success. It speeds up the bucket
> movement as reported. It is also not difficult to do. The biggest chore
was
> finding the tubing. The first store I went to was out of one size of
> tubing. The tubing is very common vinyl tubing--they just happened to be
> out. The two 1-foot pieces of tubing cost less than 30 cents including
> sales tax. Taking the loader apart and putting it back together was the
> next biggest chore, but it is not difficult if you are patient. (It is
> apparent why the device costs what it does when you see all the pieces.)
>
> If you have hesitated to buy an MTH loader or to speed it up, don't
> hesitate any more. Thanks to John Gasal for sharing his idea.
>
> By the way, if you want to increase the appeal of the loader with the
women
> folks and kids, use mini M&Ms instead of coal. The mini M&Ms work great!
>
> Lance McCold
>
> *************
> From: NotColdEnough@h...
> Date: Sun Nov 25, 2001 10:21 am
> Subject: Speed up MTH coal loader
>
>
> Back in October, a member submitted a message on how to
> replace the motor pulley to speed up the MTH coal loader. I took
> mine apart and found I could not easily remove the old pulley without
> cutting it off with a dremel tool.
>
> After some thought, I left the old pulley on, and constructed a new
> pulley over it. How - I built a new pulley made of flexible plastic
> tubing that was slid over the existing brass pulley. See
> photo "MTHcoalspeedup.jpg" in the files section.
>
> The pulley was made of two diameters of clear flexible plastic tubing
> that most hardware stores carry. The sizes I used were:
>
> 3/16 ID x 5/16 OD
> 5/16 ID x 7/16 OD
>
> The smaller size is cut to the length of the brass pulley and becomes
> the new driving surface for the belt. It did not need to be glued on
> as it had a friction fit over the existing pulley.
>
> The larger size was used to make flanges to create the sides of the
> pulley. I cut two peices about the thickness of a penny and used
> wathers goo to glue it on each end of the smaller tubing.
>
> The new pulley has reduced the lift time from 20 seconds to about 10
> seconds. And I can always slip off the new pulley if I want to
> restore the loader back to original condition.
>
> John Gasal
>
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
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>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16844 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel Catalog
In a message dated 1/22/02 7:38:58 PM, busyboy@... writes:

<< Has anyone noticed that many of the b&w background photos, depicting a toy
train right-of-way, are actually shots of an s-gauge track that Lionel
doesn't even make! >>

Yes, I did Chris. <grin> The Flyonel New Haven caboose can also be seen in
some of the background shots. The Flyer is photographed on K-Line track --
they have been doing this off and on for a decade.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 16845 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
You can do what we did on our club modules. Compromise to code 148 rail
(American Models) and run scale, flyer and hirail on the same track.
For switches use BK Industries closing frog switches which handle both
scale and Flyer. The switches are a bit of a pain to lay but not
impossible. You can also use AM switches if you limit the scale to the
straight route. To take the curved route you need a shim on the gaurd
rail toward the running rail.

Not a perfect solution but we've been running this way for years with a
minimum of trouble and the track looks pretty darned good when laid on
roadbed and ballasted.

Code 125 would look a little better but I think the inability to use the
same switch for both scale and hirail is a major problem that's solved
by using the closing frog design which BK makes in code 148.
Lance McCold wrote:
>
> My S-buddy and I have been trying to decide what kind of S-scale modules we
> want to make. We both want to make the layout and the equipment as close to
> scale as possible. But we would also like to be able to run our AF
> equipment and let other people do the same. Lots of study has led us to the
> conclusion that code 125 track is the best available compromise, but then
> you have problems with the switches. If we limit Flyer equipment to running
> only on the main line not switching, perhaps we can choose switches that
> work with scale wheels, but also allow Flyer wheels to work as long as it
> stays on the straight route.
>
> In puzzling over this problem, I decided to measure some wheels. This is
> what I found:
>
> Plastic Flyer wheels are about 0.22 in. thick. The flanges are 0.09 in.
> high and 0.085 in. thick where they meet the tread. The flanges on diesel
> and steam locomotives is about the same size.
>
> Ace and S-helper high-rail wheels are 0.17 in thick. Both have flanges that
> are 0.060 in. high and a tad over 0.060in thick.
>
> Scale wheels from Ace, SHS and a Pacific Rail Shops kit have wheels that
> are between 0.111 and 0.125 in. thick. The flanges are all close to 0.030
> in. high and 0.030 in. thick.
>
> The high-rail wheels work flawlessly on Flyer track. Because they have
> flanges that are only 0.060 inches high, high-rail wheels should also do
> fine on code 100 or even code 83 track. (Flyer rail is 0.220 in. high, code
> 220!)
>
> S is small and it is further divided by the scale-vs.-American Flyer
> division. Most scale guys would be happy running on code 100 or code 83
> rail. What we need are wheels for the Flyer and high-rail crowds that have
> flanges 0.060 in. high and 0.030 in. thick. The 0.030 in. thick flanges
> would seem to allow the wheels to work with scale switches. Then the
> under-the-Christmas-tree folks would continue to have reliable operation
> with poor track, but they could also run on (most of) the same track as the
> scale guys. (OK, probably not on code 70 rail and definitely not on smaller
> rail.) The biggest hurdle is the millions of Flyer wheels already out
> there. Lionel is the only maker of S-gauge equipment that continues to use
> 0.090 in. flanges.
>
> Could NASG develop a standard high-rail wheel the has a 0.060 in high,
> 0.030 in thick flange? Could NASG convince Lionel to adopt it? If retrofit
> high-rail wheels were available for old Flyer equipment would I be the only
> one to make the conversion?
>
> I am probably forgetting some obvious problems. Let the other thoughts begin.
>
> Lance McCold
> Knoxville, TN
>
> To see or post Photos visit
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
> or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
> To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 16846 From: Dennis Conway Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Lance,

BK will make you whatever kind of turnouts you want.
Whatever rail size, closed or open frog, curved, wyes
or whatever.

It just takes money.

For the best "scale" looking compromise on rail, go with
hand-laid code .125 and get BK to make your closed
frog turnouts. Then you'll be able to run scale or hi-rail
or AF in any direction or way you want.

Dennis Conway
Los Angeles
Group: S-Trains Message: 16847 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: unanswered questions
Well guys, it certainly was interesting to read about your notorious pasts.
It was also nice to hear from some members who are usually silent. Keep
it up.

However, mixed in with the excellent reminiscences were a few questions
about Flyer that never got answered.

Someone had a 322 SIT which smokerd at idle, but not while running. This
is an interesting problem. My guess is that either a kink or bend forms in
the smoke hose when the loco is moving , or else there is some electrical
flaw in the motor that draws too much current, so the smoke element is
under powered. Anyone have another idea on this?

They also asked how to make automatic blocks . There are several ways.
One is to use the AF semaphore. Instructions for this are found in the
Gilbert instructions for the #697 and #671 track trips. This block system
is not completely reliable but can be fun.

Another way is to use relays. This is a Lionel system that can be adapted
to Flyer. One rail serves as a detection rail. it is broken into
sections, each of which is powered through a detection circuit such as the
671, which isn't really sensitive enough, or Dallee detection devices. The
other rail contains stopping sections, short segments that are powered
through a relay. They are all arranged so that if a train is in a zone,
the detection circuit detects it and powers the relay, which cuts off power
to the stopping section in the zone behind thezone the train is in. hus a
train will never be rear ended by another train IF THE SYSTEM IS WORKING!
If you want to run two trains around a loop, you should have three sectons
or blocks. If you want to run three trains around a loop, you need at
least four sections. Each section must be at least one train length long.

No doubt there are other ways that I haven't learned yet.

Someone else asked how to make switches automatic. Well, with the use of
two track trips, you can make the switchautomatically throw to meet a
train that is approaching it, just as Lionel non derailing switches do.
Instructions for this are also found among the Gilbert instructions for the
671 and 697.

Roger asked about Flyer trestles. I don't remember offhand what the
increments in the trestle are, but it has been talked about here and can be
found in the archives. Roger, I have found it best to allow two sections
of track between a switch and the first trestle. That way, there is an
entire piece of flat ground level track to guide the train into the switch.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 16848 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/22/2002
Subject: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
I thought Flyer wheels required code 148 rail to avoid flanges striking
the tie spikes, not code 125. I could be wrong, but that's what I remember
hearing and reading.

I only use Gilbert Flyer track and Gilbert rolling stock or homebuilt stuff
with Flyer wheels and mechanisms. I have never been able to get cars with
"hirail" flanges such as found on the AM and SHS cars and Ace trucks, to
stay on my tracks. This is true especially when backing up trains. Very
often it's not the hirail car that derails but a Flyer car coupled to it.

I would really like some of the new stuff to come equipped with Flyer size
flanges and cast side un sprung un equalized trucks. I really need the
redundancy factor and the added weight low down, which lowers the center of
gravity of the car. The only way I could get my beautiful PRS boxcars to
stay on the rails was to gorilla out the car floors with a dremel to clear
the flanges of the wheels on Flyer KC trucks.

Guess I'm in the minority on this; a few list members have reported similar
problems; most of us seem happy with hirail flanges.

This probably goes in the opposite direction from what you are trying to
do. Sorry.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 16849 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Dear Chuck,
BK makes both code 125 and code 148 closed frog switches.
Don

Chuck Smith wrote:

> You can do what we did on our club modules. Compromise to code 148 rail
> (American Models) and run scale, flyer and hirail on the same track.
> For switches use BK Industries closing frog switches which handle both
> scale and Flyer. The switches are a bit of a pain to lay but not
> impossible. You can also use AM switches if you limit the scale to the
> straight route. To take the curved route you need a shim on the gaurd
> rail toward the running rail.
>
> Not a perfect solution but we've been running this way for years with a
> minimum of trouble and the track looks pretty darned good when laid on
> roadbed and ballasted.
>
> Code 125 would look a little better but I think the inability to use the
> same switch for both scale and hirail is a major problem that's solved
> by using the closing frog design which BK makes in code 148.
> Lance McCold wrote:
> >
> > My S-buddy and I have been trying to decide what kind of S-scale modules we
> > want to make. We both want to make the layout and the equipment as close to
> > scale as possible. But we would also like to be able to run our AF
> > equipment and let other people do the same. Lots of study has led us to the
> > conclusion that code 125 track is the best available compromise, but then
> > you have problems with the switches. If we limit Flyer equipment to running
> > only on the main line not switching, perhaps we can choose switches that
> > work with scale wheels, but also allow Flyer wheels to work as long as it
> > stays on the straight route.
> >
> > In puzzling over this problem, I decided to measure some wheels. This is
> > what I found:
> >
> > Plastic Flyer wheels are about 0.22 in. thick. The flanges are 0.09 in.
> > high and 0.085 in. thick where they meet the tread. The flanges on diesel
> > and steam locomotives is about the same size.
> >
> > Ace and S-helper high-rail wheels are 0.17 in thick. Both have flanges that
> > are 0.060 in. high and a tad over 0.060in thick.
> >
> > Scale wheels from Ace, SHS and a Pacific Rail Shops kit have wheels that
> > are between 0.111 and 0.125 in. thick. The flanges are all close to 0.030
> > in. high and 0.030 in. thick.
> >
> > The high-rail wheels work flawlessly on Flyer track. Because they have
> > flanges that are only 0.060 inches high, high-rail wheels should also do
> > fine on code 100 or even code 83 track. (Flyer rail is 0.220 in. high, code
> > 220!)
> >
> > S is small and it is further divided by the scale-vs.-American Flyer
> > division. Most scale guys would be happy running on code 100 or code 83
> > rail. What we need are wheels for the Flyer and high-rail crowds that have
> > flanges 0.060 in. high and 0.030 in. thick. The 0.030 in. thick flanges
> > would seem to allow the wheels to work with scale switches. Then the
> > under-the-Christmas-tree folks would continue to have reliable operation
> > with poor track, but they could also run on (most of) the same track as the
> > scale guys. (OK, probably not on code 70 rail and definitely not on smaller
> > rail.) The biggest hurdle is the millions of Flyer wheels already out
> > there. Lionel is the only maker of S-gauge equipment that continues to use
> > 0.090 in. flanges.
> >
> > Could NASG develop a standard high-rail wheel the has a 0.060 in high,
> > 0.030 in thick flange? Could NASG convince Lionel to adopt it? If retrofit
> > high-rail wheels were available for old Flyer equipment would I be the only
> > one to make the conversion?
> >
> > I am probably forgetting some obvious problems. Let the other thoughts begin.
> >
> > Lance McCold
> > Knoxville, TN
> >
> > To see or post Photos visit
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
> > or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> --
> Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
> and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 16850 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Hi Chuck:
BK also makes the switch in code 125. I just bought 12 of same and am going to lay
them - any suggestions on how to avoid the problems I am expecting??? (I am a
pessimist and these are my first "hand-laid" switches!).
Regards,
Rance

Chuck Smith wrote:
........Code 125 would look a little better but I think the inability to use the
same switch for both scale and hirail is a major problem that's solved
by using the closing frog design which BK makes in code 148.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 16851 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
SHS and A-M cars and engines have been running at the National Toy Train
Museum flawlessly for years. The track was less than perfect quite often,
but they rolled easily and stayed on the track. In fact, I removed as much
of the A/F and Flyonel rolling stock as possible (displayed it instead) to
reduce the strain on the motive power. The old Flyer track is now finally
up, being replaced by S-Helper Service track. Fantastic support, as usual,
from SHS.
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16852 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: 770 Trestle Set
I am looking for a 770 Trestle Set. This paper trestle
set is very hard to find. I have a plastic set of AF
trestles on my layout, but I want to buy a 770 set in
order that I can utilize the "bridge" sides and the
long trestles that go with them. If you have such a
set for sale, please contact me off list. If you own a
set but don't wish to sell, perhaps you can help me
fabricate my own set. I need the following:
1)Dimensions of the long and short sides of the
bridge.

2)Dimensions of the 6 long bridge cross ties.I think
that these cross ties were banked.

3)If possible a photo of both the bridge sides and the
long cross ties.

Thanks for helping me. I will post a photo of the
results when I complete this product.

Michael

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16853 From: Jim Carnes Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: unanswered questions - trestles
I measured some trestles this morning. Height increase is 0.34 inch each trestle.
Jim

jarcho@... wrote:

> Well guys, it certainly was interesting to read about your notorious pasts.
> It was also nice to hear from some members who are usually silent. Keep
> it up.

<clip>

>
> Roger asked about Flyer trestles. I don't remember offhand what the
> increments in the trestle are, but it has been talked about here and can be
> found in the archives. Roger, I have found it best to allow two sections
> of track between a switch and the first trestle. That way, there is an
> entire piece of flat ground level track to guide the train into the switch.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16854 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel Catalog
I believe that what they have been talking about is the background to the 0
gauge shots!
Chris Zizzo

----- Original Message -----
From: <RBubeck327@...>
To: <busyboy@...>; <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Lionel Catalog


>
> In a message dated 1/22/02 7:38:58 PM, busyboy@... writes:
>
> << Has anyone noticed that many of the b&w background photos, depicting a
toy
> train right-of-way, are actually shots of an s-gauge track that Lionel
> doesn't even make! >>
>
> Yes, I did Chris. <grin> The Flyonel New Haven caboose can also be seen in
> some of the background shots. The Flyer is photographed on K-Line track --
> they have been doing this off and on for a decade.
>
> RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 16855 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel Catalog
In a message dated 1/23/02 8:52:57 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Busyboy@... writes:

<< I believe that what they have been talking about is the background to the 0
gauge shots!
Chris Zizzo >>

Yes. I believe that they shots of the upper most level of the Visitors'
Center layout. If I remember correctly, much of this was done with K-Line
extended straights.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 16856 From: Linda & Ted Weiler Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
I've run my Christmas cars from Lionel and 'S' Helper together with no
problems on the new code 125 track. Usually the newer cars are in the
front, but I do not have the switches. The flanges are very close, but no
problems in two years.

Ted
Group: S-Trains Message: 16857 From: David Dewey Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Jim,
While I can appreciate the endorsement for the new products, the display
is in a TOY TRAIN MUSEUM (my emphasis). If the display is to show historic
toy trains, how can it be a valid display using equipment that is visibly
different from the original artifacts?? (Most notably the track.)
This is just the Curator in me coming out--probably because I was once taken
to task for using replica bone playing pieces in a Native American display
(even though we had created them from original materials).
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16858 From: Robert Wight Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Trestle Grade/Thanks
This is what my notes have. All my engines work great on this grade. This is
not carved in stone,just works the best for me.
5/16" per track. 1/3" to a foot.
Bob Wight
Thanks to Tom Jarcho for taking the time to answer the missed questions.


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 16859 From: bpx29@aol.com Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: NP Reefer #24409--Need Pricing Help Please !
Flyer folks,
I wonder if someone might help me out here? I'm a long time modeler but
haven't been involved in American Flyer for many years. After 40 years I've
hauled out my old S gauge and have begun selling most of it off, but keeping
items that are particularly sentimental to me. I've been consulting both the
Greenburg and TM price guides, as well as observing at local swap meets, but
have run into a ticklish question.

I have a pretty decent Norther Pacific reefer, five-digit number 24409, which
I can gather is one of the scarcer cars listed. There's a gentleman I've been
communicating with who's pretty interested in buying it and I'm trying to
establish a fair price. There's a considerable value span between the two
price guides, and I'm no judge of condition levels. It doesn't have the
original box, but the condition is not bad. Ive had very veteran collectors
tell me they've never even seen one of these, and it's obviously not
something I'd see at most swap meets.
My request is that perhaps someone might be willing to give me an estimate?
I've scanned several views and would like to offer them for evaluation, if
anyone would like to help out a relative Flyer novice?
Any help is much appreciated, as I'd like to move this car out of the yard,
so to speak, if I can get this together. Thanks, and regards,
Barry Peltier
Group: S-Trains Message: 16860 From: jahoozdumm Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: how it started
john marganski wrote:

>Standard is so far the Christmas tree layout-but that may change as
>i get such a kick out of those Giant Toy Trains From Hell-and so
>does Jeanne-she hates anything non-tinplate.


Interesting, the wife-unit here also goes for sheet metal in a big
way. My way of keeping her happy and our home 3rd rail-free is a bit
labor intensive, but it works: I take old junk Marx and prewar
Gilbert chassis, cut them as needed, repaint and convert them to S.
The result is hyper-tinplate (enough to get me lynched if I ever
posted pix of them to the S Scale list file), but compatible with our
layout.

Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16861 From: Paul Yorke Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Chat Room Move
Hello S-Listers,
This note is directed to the Sunday night chatters , (and potential
chatters)
With the combining of the 'Yahoo Clubs' and the 'Yahoo Groups', our need
to have an S-Trains club and and S-Trains Group have disappeared.
In the Past the 'Club' had a better Chat room, but now both sites are
the same. Having one Club/Group should make it easier for newcomers to
get acclimated.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Please visit this room. If you see one of our chat buddies 'online'
please call in and check out the room.
Unless I hear otherwise, we will be chatting there on Sunday night.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16862 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Thanks for the update. Didn't realize BK had code 125 also. For new
construction for mixed scale and hirail that's definitely the way to
go. BTW, virtually all Fyer runs on code 125 rail. Someone told me
some of the larger flanged engines won't. Anybody know more about this?

Bente Velapoldi wrote:
>
> Hi Chuck:
> BK also makes the switch in code 125. I just bought 12 of same and am going to lay
> them - any suggestions on how to avoid the problems I am expecting??? (I am a
> pessimist and these are my first "hand-laid" switches!).
> Regards,
> Rance
>
> Chuck Smith wrote:
> ........Code 125 would look a little better but I think the inability to use the
> same switch for both scale and hirail is a major problem that's solved
> by using the closing frog design which BK makes in code 148.....

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 16863 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Okay, can one of you tell me who is BK? Is there a web site?

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


Chuck Smith wrote:

> Thanks for the update. Didn't realize BK had code 125 also. For new
> construction for mixed scale and hirail that's definitely the way to
> go. BTW, virtually all Fyer runs on code 125 rail. Someone told me
> some of the larger flanged engines won't. Anybody know more about this?
>
> Bente Velapoldi wrote:
> >
> > Hi Chuck:
> > BK also makes the switch in code 125. I just bought 12 of same and am going to lay
> > them - any suggestions on how to avoid the problems I am expecting??? (I am a
> > pessimist and these are my first "hand-laid" switches!).
> > Regards,
> > Rance
> >
> > Chuck Smith wrote:
> > ........Code 125 would look a little better but I think the inability to use the
> > same switch for both scale and hirail is a major problem that's solved
> > by using the closing frog design which BK makes in code 148.....
>
> --
> Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
> and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
>
> "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
> than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16864 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
1)Lay the outer straight rail first.
2)Then lay the point of the frog where you want it, gauging from the
straight rail.
3)Position the moving frog center so the frog is against the point of
the frog and the straight route is in gauge. During this step you can
hold the gauge with a couple of temporary spikes to fix the position of
the moving frog.
4)Now mount the moving frog with a pivot screw.
5)Now throw the frog to the curved position. Remove any spikes you had
to hold the frog.
6)Start gauging the curved rail to the portion of turnout side that is
on the point of the frog and spike it as you go.
I think I remembered everything. Now comes the fun part. If both ends
of the frog don't fit securely against the rails when the switch is
thrown you get into the tinkering mode. We have actually had to
repposition the pivot hole on some switches to get equal throw at both
ends. Newer BKs may avoid this problem. Stay with it and you'll like
the finished product and they look good.
Be really careful about gauge. You ought to have a template for a #X
switch where X is the switch number, like say a #6. You'll need switch
ties.

Bente Velapoldi wrote:
>
> Hi Chuck:
> BK also makes the switch in code 125. I just bought 12 of same and am going to lay
> them - any suggestions on how to avoid the problems I am expecting??? (I am a
> pessimist and these are my first "hand-laid" switches!).
> Regards,
> Rance
>
> Chuck Smith wrote:
> ........Code 125 would look a little better but I think the inability to use the
> same switch for both scale and hirail is a major problem that's solved
> by using the closing frog design which BK makes in code 148.....

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 16865 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: Trestle Grade/Thanks
Grade is 5/16" = .312" in 10" (one track). Thus the grade is 3.12%
which is very reasonable for most layouts. I have actually run in the 4
- 6% range in the past. The max recommend is probably about 4%. Not
fixed in concrete- just something I remember as recommended grades from
many years ago.

Robert Wight wrote:
>
> This is what my notes have. All my engines work great on this grade. This is
> not carved in stone,just works the best for me.
> 5/16" per track. 1/3" to a foot.
> Bob Wight
> Thanks to Tom Jarcho for taking the time to answer the missed questions.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
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>
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--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 16866 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: 813 switcher
Does any one have a high resolution scan of the side of one that they could
email me?Thanks



Keith


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Group: S-Trains Message: 16867 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Go to: http://www.troutcreekeng.com/bk_s.html

TRU-SCALE HI-SPEED S SCALE TURNOUTS FOR HI-RAIL
These are closed frog turnouts for use on layouts where both scale and
American Flyer equipment are operated together.

Code 125 Code 148
No. Price No. Price
#3 RH 2431 23.00 2231 25.00
LH 2432 23.00 2232 25.00
#4 RH 2441 25.00 2241 27.00
LH 2442 25.00 2242 27.00
#6 RH 2461 27.00 2261 29.00
LH 2462 27.00 2262 29.00
#8 RH 2481 29.00 2281 31.00
LH 2482 29.00 2282 31.00
WYE 2491 24.00 2291 26.00



"Roger V. Petrella Jr." wrote:
>
> Okay, can one of you tell me who is BK? Is there a web site?
>
> Roger Petrella
> Franktown, CO
>
> Chuck Smith wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the update. Didn't realize BK had code 125 also. For new
> > construction for mixed scale and hirail that's definitely the way to
> > go. BTW, virtually all Fyer runs on code 125 rail. Someone told me
> > some of the larger flanged engines won't. Anybody know more about this?
> >
> > Bente Velapoldi wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Chuck:
> > > BK also makes the switch in code 125. I just bought 12 of same and am going to lay
> > > them - any suggestions on how to avoid the problems I am expecting??? (I am a
> > > pessimist and these are my first "hand-laid" switches!).
> > > Regards,
> > > Rance
> > >
> > > Chuck Smith wrote:
> > > ........Code 125 would look a little better but I think the inability to use the
> > > same switch for both scale and hirail is a major problem that's solved
> > > by using the closing frog design which BK makes in code 148.....
> >
> > --
> > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
> > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
> >
> > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
> > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 16868 From: tomsmitty2001 Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Influences and how it all got started
It started with an Erector set in 1962. One of the really small
ones, but inside the back cover of the "How To Make 'Em Book" was a
picture that was also used ( I think ) on a '58 AF catalogue
cover.....it showed a Hudson climbing a trestled grade with smoke
pouring out of the stack and those whitewall drivers ! Made my
Lionel General and my second-hand Marx set look anemic. Never did
end up with AF as a kid. Fast forward to about 1980 and seeing a 290
in a train store.... I remarked to my girlfriend that I'd always
wanted one of those engines with whitewalls and smoke......and lo and
behold, it appeared wrapped in a box for Christmas that year along
with a 630 caboose and a box of track. The post-college re-discovery
of model trains was just starting.....and so was the lure of the real
thing. They both went hand in hand. Visits to train stores showed
flyers posted for steam fan trips, in this area it was N&W 611 and
later on their 1218. The sound the exhaust from that northern at 70
mph and the mournful sound of it's low-toned whistle instantly got
into my blood. The N&W trips came to town just once a year, the
craving for steam, grease and coal smoke was enough that I commenced
weekend trips to Owosso, a mid-Michigan town about 75 miles from home
to work on the 1225, a Pere Marquette 2-8-4 Berkshire. A few months
of that and I was pretty well hooked. During all this time I was
completing a second college degree, and shortly after graduating with
a BSME, saw an advertisement for a helper needed in the railroad shop
at Henry Ford Museum & Greenfield Village. On a whim, I applied
figuring it might be a fun thing to do until a real job presented
itself. 13 years later the "real job" still hasn't presented itself
and I daily work with or on or repair or maintain one of our steam
locomotives, sometimes using machine tools that were built around the
WWI era. I was fortunate enough to be part of a group that
documented an 1880's roundhouse originally located in Marshall,
Michigan. It was later recreated on the Greenfield Village grounds
and again I was part of the group that worked closely with the
architects and construction firm during the planning and construction
phases, the building is now my home base of operations. All of this
due to acquiring that first little 290.
My main job for this project though, was the restoration of a number
of large, specialized machine tools designed specifically for
railroad use ~ a driving wheel lathe, a draw-cut shaper, a 400 ton
capacity wheel press, an axle truing lathe and a radial arm drill
press, the arm of which is 6 feet in length and it stands some 14'
tall. Yes, the ME degree helped some, but more than any other
training I might have had or picked up over the years, I have to
credit my ability for dismantling, assessing and then rebuilding
those machine tools ( and the locomotives too ! ) to the hours and
hours spent with the Erector set that showed up Christmas morning in
1962 ( along with a subsequent set that came a couple years later ).
Learing how parts inter-relate, how gears mesh ( and to keep fingers
clear of same ), how levers and cams do their thing, so much of the
basis of that understanding came from freelancing projects with those
Erector sets. Once you get into it, there really aren't that many
principles of mechanics to learn, it's more how they inter-relate and
being able to break larger assemblies into smaller ones or realizing
that some of these things are just bigger versions that require some
ingenuity in handling. So in my world, AC Gilbert and his toys
really shaped how the boy turned out !
And a standing invitation to any on this list that happen through the
Detroit / Dearborn area to stop in and visit the roundhouse......it
was created with the visitor in mind and the public can tour the
building daily, April 1st. through the end of the year.

Regard"S",

Smitty
Group: S-Trains Message: 16869 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Dear David,
Who appointed you the toy GOD ((my emphasis)? I am not sure when you joined the
TCA, but I did in 1974. I feel honored that the TCA operates our equipment on MY
CLUB'S MUSEUM LAYOUT. Lots of Mom, Dads, Uncle, Aunts and Grandparents have
purchased our trains sets for their children and grandchildren so I think the TCA
should have no problems operating our products.
What exactly are "historic toy trains"? I think our two bay PS-2 covered
hoppers are historic as they are the first mass produced R-T-R freight cars from new
tooling made to operate on AF track over 40 years! Are they scale proportioned
models that operate on two rail track? Sure they are...but so was my American Flyer
trains set I received in 1956. This is the reason why many of us (who were blessed
with parents who were not perpetual impaired) ended up with AF and not "L" or Marx.
Don
PS I think the last thing "S" needs is to see an entire displays of items that you
cannot easily purchase. It gives "S" that dead aroma many of us are trying to
change.

David Dewey wrote:

> Jim,
> While I can appreciate the endorsement for the new products, the display
> is in a TOY TRAIN MUSEUM (my emphasis). If the display is to show historic
> toy trains, how can it be a valid display using equipment that is visibly
> different from the original artifacts?? (Most notably the track.)
> This is just the Curator in me coming out--probably because I was once taken
> to task for using replica bone playing pieces in a Native American display
> (even though we had created them from original materials).
> S'
> David D.

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 16870 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Paul writes:

"Hello S-Listers,
This note is directed to the Sunday night chatters , (and potential
chatters)
With the combining of the 'Yahoo Clubs' and the 'Yahoo Groups', our
need
to have an S-Trains club and and S-Trains Group have disappeared.
In the Past the 'Club' had a better Chat room, but now both sites are
the same. Having one Club/Group should make it easier for newcomers to
get acclimated.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Please visit this room. If you see one of our chat buddies 'online'
please call in and check out the room.
Unless I hear otherwise, we will be chatting there on Sunday night."

I wonder, is it just on my computer? When I go to the "Group" Chat room, it looks smaller to me. I see fewer lines for chat, sure they just scroll on above the view, but any distraction and I may miss something. The space for the list of chatters is a lot smaller, will have to scroll most any time to see who is on. Also, no Voice Chat, true we don't use voice when many are on, but there are the slow times that it could be used.

Yes, it should work, but will be an adjustment to go there. Paul may need to check in "Clubs" now and then to see that people are not lost over there.

Well, that's my 1/2 cent worth for now. See you Sunday night!








---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Auctions Great stuff seeking new owners! Bid now!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16871 From: Roger Delthony Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Soft Winross Tires
In Winross' early days (the 1960's) they used a soft rubber for their
tires. This can be a helpful way to gauge the age of a Winross truck. I
have some of these early trucks with soft tires, but have not noticed
the flatening that you saw.

Roger Delthony
Group: S-Trains Message: 16872 From: David Dewey Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: Influences and how it all got started
Ahh, Smitty,
You have my DREAM job!! Even went to college to try and get a Masters in
Museumology so I could qualify somewhere. Never got the thesis done, so now
it's a Certificate. Now working part-time as the assistant curator for the
local History museum, but my real love is early industrial machinery. Ah
well, I'll keep tinkering w/ the 15 T and the 30 A and the Stanley engine
when I'm not playing with AF.
I'M JEALOUS! And you bet, if'n I'm ever in the 'hood, I'm a gonna drop in
for the 25¢ tour!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16873 From: David Dewey Date: 1/23/2002
Subject: Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
OK, OK My apologies, I wasn't clear about my concern or comment. YES, the
new stuff is historic, in it's own way right now. Given time, it will
probably be historic in the same sense that old AF is too--I hope I'm around
then too, to enjoy them. I gladly run my SHS WP Fs in front of my CZ train
made from LTI CZ cars and some junker ACG cars converted to match. And, yep,
I'm running the wheels off of some cars that were NIB--the LTI ones.
Conserving the old stuff is a great idea too; don't forget, I'm a
Curator and we tend to hoard and hide everything we think is an artifact!
No, my comment was only a thought that IF the display's intent was to show
1950s S gauge, then the modern track is inappropriate. I would hope though,
that the display would compare "then & now" much as the Howard'S trainS
layout does (we have all three "major" track types on the layout). As much
as I love ACG stuff, the new stuff is pretty neat too. I love to push the
control button and watch my CZ apply brakes and coast to a stop, with all
the car lights staying lit. Another push, and the brakes release, the "prime
mover" revs up, and she pulls out of the station. TOO COOL. (Just don't ask
the Train Dr. to fix 'em, I don't have a clue, YET.)
And Don, way out here in Northern California, there isn't much advantage
to joining TCA, let alone finding two other members to sign my application!
Though I'd love to see the museum sometime, if I ever get back that way.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16874 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Answers
Wow, you all are fast with the answers! By the time I get the e-mails,
especially questions that I can answer, they have already been answered
by several people. Must be the slow electrons to overseas! And that
goes for several topics. Great!
Rance Velapoldi
Group: S-Trains Message: 16875 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Show Schedule
Hi Folks,
We will be at the Timonium show this weekend. Then the big E at West Springfield next weekend. Stop by and see us.
Tom D.

Tom Doherty
Pennsylvania Heritage Models, Ltd.
http://www.paheritagemodels.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16876 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Re: This Weekend
This weekend, we will be exhibiting and selling our products at the
Train Show in Timonium, Maryland. We will have engineering samples of
the F-7 A&B units as well as the two bay composite hopper on display.
It should be a great show with several "S" layouts and mfgs. in
attendance.

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 16877 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] 770 Trestle Set
Note: forwarded message attached.


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Group: S-Trains Message: 16878 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Flyer for Sale
I have just listed 10 items on E-bay (Woodlands
Flyer). These include mainly project cars and
accessorites for restoration. There are such gems as a
21107 PRR Atlantic in good condition except it only
runs in reverse, a 734 Red Plastic operating box with
a large chip in one end. Now I am getting ready to
list some "good stuff", and I thought I would give
members of this list first opportunitie. Here is what
is coming:
K325 Locomotive
742 Reversing handcar with box.
585 Tool shed
577 Ringling Bros Circus Billboard
Mystic Station
293 Locomotive
Various Flyer catalogs.

Contact me off list at Kite1@... if you would
like details or photos!
Michael


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Group: S-Trains Message: 16879 From: Horn, David Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: AF Switches
You may already know these things about ACG AF right and left hand 720A
switches, but while I was researching a question from Wayne Beachy, the
founder of our ACSG club, I discovered the following.

For the purposes of this summary, concerning right or left hand switches,
think of the entry point as A, the straight through exit point as A', and
the turnout exit point as B. I tested with a digital VOM and a 1-1/2B 16V
rated AF transformer with a black lead from the base post to the outer rail
and a red lead from the variable voltage post to the inner rail. Switches
were isolated from each other or other tracks. "Full power" means power
corresponding to the power setting of the transformer, "no power" means
negligible (only mV) power reading on the VOM.

With a right hand switch:
- the Regular/2-Train mode switch connects or disconnects the outer rails of
A' and B.
- In Regular mode: Set straight, A-A' gets full power, A-B get full power as
well. Set to turn out, however, A-A' gets no power, A-B gets full power.
- In 2-train mode: Set straight, A-A' gets full power, A-B gets 0.9-1.9
volts (across the voltage range on the transformer). Set to turn out, A-A'
gets no power, A-B full power.

With a left hand switch:
- the Regular/2-Train mode switch connects or disconnects the inner rails of
A' and B.
- In Regular mode: Set straight, A-A' gets full power, A-B gets 0.8-1.6v.
Set to turn out, A-A' gets full power, A-B gets full power.
- In 2-train mode: Set straight, A-A' gets full power, A-B gets 0.8-1.6v.
Set to turn out, A-A' gets no power, A-B full power.

Dave
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16880 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: 2 choices
Dear Nick:
Did you know Lionel had an erector set? (Before you jump all over
me, note I used 'lower case' rather than 'Erector Set' which is ACG.)

This was/is a nice toy. It was/is easier to build with and models go
together faster. But they can not be powered and run forever the way an
Erector Set can be.
Why? ACG (A. C. Gilbert) used screws and nuts. (2-56. Buy them by
the pound at the hardware store.)
Lionel used rivets for the screws and rubber washers as the 'nuts'.
The rivets have round heads and smooth shafts. (Think of a 2-56 screw
without threads or screwdriver slot.) The rubber washers are black, about
an 1/8 of an inch thick, and the hole is a little smaller than the rivet's
shaft.
So after a while the pounding of the motor works the rubber 'nuts'
work off the rivets. The results can be dramatic!
I had many hours of enjoyment from this set as a youth. I even
built a working lathe that I reshaped Styrofoam balls on.

I think my mother still has this set. I have never had it and an ACG set
out at the same time so I don't know if they could work together.

Thorin

--- Original Message ---
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 07:59:14 -0500
From: Nick and Becky Colleran <colleran@...>
Subject: 2 choices

Chris: I think you crossed decades. Shouldn't it have been
Elvis or Pat Boone; Beatles or Stones? Your logic seems to
follow "Positioning" (Al Ries & Jack Trout) which promotes the
two choices: Coke or Pepsi = Linonel or Flyer. I guess Marx
was the Royal Crown cola of trains. In retrospect, Positioning
explains why Lionel could not match the sucess of Erector
with their construction sets : Lionel meant trains, American Flyer
meant trains, Erector meant construction toy, Lionel could not
also mean construction toy anymore than Xerox can mean
computer. Also, everyone probably knows that Gilbert's change
to S Gauge allowed him to be number 1 in the "S" category
rather than #2 in "0". Nobody remembers who was the second
person to fly solo across the Atlantic but they all know #3
because she was the first (#1) woman. Gilbert was ahead of
the marketing books. Now it's time to go off to work and do
real marketing. --- Nick
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 22:05:23 -0500
> From: Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...>
>Subject: re: Fwd:The Myth of Toy Trains (was Re: degree survey explanation)
>
>Obie Bell wrote:
>>I got to descriptions of life's
>>choices and how they correlate and my vision of the pipe-smoking Dad
>>turned into the little girl with her head spinning around spitting out
>>pea soup in the Exorcist.
>
>Yikes!
>
>I knew someone was going to take me to task for the choices, but I stand by
>it. And I left out:
>Yankees or Dodgers; Burger King or McDonald's; Chocolate or Vanilla; PC or
>Mac; VHS or Beta; The Beatles or Elvis; Nestle's Quik or Bosco; Life or
>Death. There really are only two choices.
>
>Chris Zizzo
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16881 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Corgi vehicles
I got all the Corgi vehicles (fire and Texaco) at diecastdirect that
were 4.95 and listed as 1/64th scale. They are all about 3-1/2" to 4"
long, which comes out to be around 18-22 scale feet. This is too big
for the automobiles and too small for the large fire engines, but the
smaller trucks are about right.

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16882 From: david_garber2000 Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Jan. is a good month
Looks like we went over 600 for the 2nd.Jan. in a row. this looks
good for the future and I hope the change in chat will add to the #
of chatters. New people bring new ideas and views. Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 16883 From: David Dewey Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Re: Jan. is a good month
I wonder how these numbers compare with the "O size" internet groups. 600
seems like a fair-sized group, considering that , as a rough guess, only 10%
of all S gaugers are here. How much overlap is there with the S-scale
group, there's some more numbers!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16884 From: Rhett T. George Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1298
- Dave -

You have certainly made a careful and well-documented study of two 720A
turnouts. Thanks.

Two comments regarding your results. Some digital VOM's have very high
input impedances in the megohm range. This allows capacitive coupling
between turnout parts to introduce a volt or two into the unpowered exit
track. A 50k ohm resistor connected from one voltmeter probe to the
other may reduce the measured voltage down to millivolts.

Regarding your remarks about the right-hand turnout and the Regular/
2-Train mode switch, you note that the switch connects or disconnects
the outer rails of A' and B. I think of the outer rail or stock rail
for A' as the one which runs straight thru from A and which has no
provision for being disconnected. I think I need to understand your
description better. I'll work on that.

Thanks and cheer"S" Rhett
Group: S-Trains Message: 16885 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: BK switches
I have one switch with a separate movable frog. The track resembles
Gargraves with wood ties that are spiked on. The points of the switch are
controlled by a moving wood bar. The frog is a long, tapered piece of
aluminum set between two guardrails that are the extensions of the running
rails.

Under the switch, a long linkage connects the point bar and the frog. When
the points move, the frog moves. It is a very clever design. The turnout
is somewhere around a #8, LH. I wish I had more of them. I never saw them
before nor since I acquired this one at a train show some years ago for a
few dollars. There is no name on it.

Is this the BK switch?
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16886 From: royhoffman Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Re: Jan. is a good month
I did a quick search of the Yahoo groups and came up with an
unscientific comparison:

S-Trains Vs. Lionel:
S-Trains = 701
Lionel Layouts = 127
Lionel Collecting = 207
Lionel Post War = 223

S-Scale vs. O & HO
S-Scale = 363
O-2 rail = 209
HO railroading = 792

SN3 Vs. ON3
SN3 = 498
ON3 = 461

Sure, there's overlapping, but we're doing great, at least on Yahoo!


--- In S-Trains@y..., "David Dewey" <djdewey@c...> wrote:
> I wonder how these numbers compare with the "O size" internet
groups. 600
> seems like a fair-sized group, considering that , as a rough guess,
only 10%
> of all S gaugers are here. How much overlap is there with the S-
scale
> group, there's some more numbers!
> S'
> David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16887 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Re: Jan. is a good month
Dear Roy,
Maybe this is due to those owning AF as children grew up more astute and tend to
own computers?
Don

royhoffman wrote:

> I did a quick search of the Yahoo groups and came up with an
> unscientific comparison:
>
> S-Trains Vs. Lionel:
> S-Trains = 701
> Lionel Layouts = 127
> Lionel Collecting = 207
> Lionel Post War = 223
>
> S-Scale vs. O & HO
> S-Scale = 363
> O-2 rail = 209
> HO railroading = 792
>
> SN3 Vs. ON3
> SN3 = 498
> ON3 = 461

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 16888 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: 720A two train switch
--- "Rhett T. George" <rtg@...> wrote:
> ... you note that the switch connects or disconnects
> the outer rails of A' and B. I think of the outer rail or stock rail
> for A' as the one which runs straight thru from A and which has no
> provision for being disconnected.

The outer straight rail is always powered; The two train switch
controls whether the curved outer rail is connected or disconnected to
the always powered outer straight rail when the switch is switched to
straight. When Dave said that the switch connects or disconnects the
outer rails of A' and B he meant to each other.

What is interesting in Dave's tests is that the two-train switch
operates differently depending on whether it's a right or left handed
switch. One controlling the inner rail connections and the other the
outer rail connections. Do all unmodified 720As follow this pattern?
And if so, what would be the reason for this?



__________________________________________________
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Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16889 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Indianapolis GATS
Hi all,
If anyone is going to the Great American Train Show in Indy this weekend,
stop by and say hi to me and the misses. We will have our portable S-Helper
Christmas layout at the show. You can't miss it.
Never take life seriously.
Nobody gets out alive anyway.

THE TRAINNUT
CHRIS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16890 From: royhoffman Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Re: Jan. is a good month
Yep, we owe it all to the Gilbert Hall of Science. Maybe Bill Gates
started with an Erector Set.

--- In S-Trains@y..., Don Thompson <robin@s...> wrote:
> Dear Roy,
> Maybe this is due to those owning AF as children grew up more
astute and tend to
> own computers?
> Don
Group: S-Trains Message: 16891 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Oveltine ?
; Nestle's Quik or Bosco;

What about Oveltine? They were big, sponsored radio shows, had premiems, and are still around bragging about being better for you .



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions Great stuff seeking new owners! Bid now!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16892 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Need your help on 770 paper trestle Bridge sections
I am looking for a 770 Trestle Set. This paper trestle
set is very hard to find. I have a plastic set of AF
trestles on my layout, but I want to buy a 770 set in
order that I can utilize the "bridge" sides and the
long trestles that go with them. If you have such a
set for sale, please contact me off list. If you own a
set but don't wish to sell, perhaps you can help me
fabricate my own set. I need the following:
1)Dimensions of the long and short sides of the
bridge.

2)Dimensions of the 6 long bridge cross ties.I think
that these cross ties were banked.

3)If possible a photo of both the bridge sides and the
long cross ties.

Thanks for helping me. I will post a photo of the
results when I complete this product.

Michael




__________________________________________________
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Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 16893 From: yazfacts Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Lionel/A.F.752.......
Dear Group,
Since the orginal Gilbert accessiores cost an arm and a
leg,buying the "new" repro's make a lot of sense for the average "Joe"
who wants one.This is about the only way of these accessories making
it on our layout tables.Otherwise you could never afford them. I'm
interested in purchasing the new Lionel/A.F. 752 CoalLoader. I have
recieved e-mails explaining the cosmetic look of this unit.But no one
has posted any comments reguarding the perfomance of the accessery
itself. If any one has run this accessory please e-mail me or post any
comments about how well, or how bad ,the unit runs .Thank you in
advance as always.....Bob S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16894 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Re: BK switches
Doesn't sound like one. BKs have a one piece point and "frog" formed of
rails with connecting plates. This assembly pivots as one piece around a
hole at the midpoint. The "wing" rails bend outard from the assembly at
the frog end and close against the point of the grog, creating a
continuous running surface through the frog with no gap.

Chris Zizzo wrote:
>
> I have one switch with a separate movable frog. The track resembles
> Gargraves with wood ties that are spiked on. The points of the switch are
> controlled by a moving wood bar. The frog is a long, tapered piece of
> aluminum set between two guardrails that are the extensions of the running
> rails.
>
> Under the switch, a long linkage connects the point bar and the frog. When
> the points move, the frog moves. It is a very clever design. The turnout
> is somewhere around a #8, LH. I wish I had more of them. I never saw them
> before nor since I acquired this one at a train show some years ago for a
> few dollars. There is no name on it.
>
> Is this the BK switch?
> Chris Zizzo
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 16895 From: Steve Blancard Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Timonium ?
Is there a web site that has more information on the Timonium show. I
may drive up from Fredericksburg with my boys to see all the goodies.

Thanks,
Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 16896 From: TED R LARSON Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Racing Champions
Whoaaaaaaaa, I stopped by Target to check for new vehicles from Racing
Champions. I looked all over but saw no familiar Racing Champions
packaging, even though Target has lately been far better than K-mart or
Walmart in stocking RC. I started checking other blister packs to see if
anybody else had anything of interest. And there I found some Racing
Champions in totally unfamiliar packaging, similar to Hot Wheels. Some
of the cars I found are re-runs of previous offerings, such as the 1964
Ford Fairlane "Thunderbolt". Others I don't recall seeing previously.
From the back of the package, here's the list of offerings. I saw about
half of these in stock, none of which appeared to be over or undersize.

1967 Plymouth Fury II
Plymouth Prowler
1964 Ford Thunderbolt
1970 Camaro
1999 Porsche Boxster
1969 Camaro
1969 Boss Mustang 302
1953 Packard Carribean
1951 Hudson Hornet
1929 Ford Roadster Pickup
Razor Concept Car
M80 Concept Car

Regarding other manufacturers, here's some items that I spotted.
Johnny Lightning 1957 Chev Cameo pickup
Matchbox Post Office van - modern
Matchbox horse trailer (looks like a rerun of the mid-60's trailer that
came with the Studebaker station wagon)
Hot Wheels collectible 1957 Chev sedan (looks a bit small in comparison
to their 1957 Ford convertible)
Group: S-Trains Message: 16897 From: Steve Blancard Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Old time locomotives
Besides the Frankin/Washington series, has there ever been any other
1860-1890 style locomotives made in S-scale? ACG or other
manufacturers? This is my hands down favorite era but I have found
nothing to fill this void other than my Franklin. While I like the
Franklin, it lacks a lot.

I have toyed with the idea of taking a Franklin junker and building a
more detailed version using its boiler and chassis. Thought I could
scratch build a wooden cab, reomve the steam and sand dome and replace
them with brass items. Also remove the dummy headlight and make a
working headlight. Also make a new stack with a different shape and
screened at the top. Perhaps add more realistic wheels and maybe make
the valve gear more realistic too.

I realize the Franklin is a bit out of scale but i need to start
somewhere. Anyone have ideas for a project like this? I'd enjoy
hearing your comments.

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 16898 From: Paul Yorke Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Group Polls
I encourage all members to think about creating Polls,
I think they are fun and anybody can start one.
Just remember we are here to have fun.
And please try and keep it S train related.
Have Fun!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/polls

PS We may only be allowed on Poll at a time, so let
others have a turn too.

=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 16899 From: Doug Peck Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Coaler
For those who want to speed up their MTH 785, we expect to soon release a
brass pulley to replace the existing pulley. It will do the trick for you!
Will announce it's availability as soon as it's in hand!

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supplies
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please).
http://www.portlines.com/
portlines@...
VISA --MC--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted.
NEW ! View our entire AF Parts Catalog, as well as Equipment Sales
Inventories On-Line !!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16900 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
David,
I appreciate your curator's position and the age old question you raise.
During my involvement, the problem was to keep four (4) tracks and trains
operating for up to seven (7) hours per day seven (7) days per week. The
S-Gauge layout was for a time and may still be the most popular because it
was the most interactive. Patrons large and small could press twelve (12)
buttons to start the four trains, run the sawmill, the barrel loader, light
the mountain beacon, light the yard floodlights, run the cattle yard,
sound the whistle, sound the diesel horn and activate the "burning factory"
and the approaching fire trucks. Can't tell you what I called the factory,
could have started with an "L".
I first requested new track in the fall of 1995, when it became apparent
that the 10"
sections were humping in the middle. No one had an answer. There was a
definite
hump in the middle of many sections. Still no answer that I am aware of. As
long as several of us were there to adjust it, nothing was done. NOW the
people who kept it going are gone or almost gone, SO the track is being
replaced as a part of the operating mission of the layout. Agree that the
new stuff may not be totally accurate, in the perspective of 1946, but, it
works far better. Have to make a trade off somewhere. Have the layout
operate or make it a 10' X 16' static display. Hate to see that. We have a
nice wall display for that. Not big enough, but nice.
As you are surely aware most A/f sets only had 3, 4 or 5 cars, at least in
part, the old heads told me, to lessen the strain on the loco. NOW we have
free wheeling cars from SHS and A-M and others, I'm sure that are far less
likely to wear out the loco's.
Easy way to check this, set up parallel tracks ten feet (or whatever) long
and put a
Flyer or Flyonel on one and ANYBODY ELSE'S CAR on the other. Give them a
shove. Bet the Flyer or Flyonel don't travel nearly as far.
In order for the layout to be interesting, the trains had to be too.
IF you ever make it to the right coast, let us know, we'll get some
S-Gaugers together at NTTM, I'm only minutes away.
Jim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16901 From: John L. Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Track Cleaning Car
Recently picked up a 648 track cleaning car for the AF set. Is there a trick or two
to use it properly? It came with felt pads, and I wet them with a track cleaner fluid
- then hooked it to a diecast 302. The car did go round the track, but slowed the
engine right down, made it spin wheels etc., came off the track, and uncoupled etc.
Can you do something with the spring, is there a proper type of fluid to use etc., or
should one get new pads etc.?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16902 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Industrial Rail Tank car
Has anyone else looked at the 6000 series Industrial Rail tank car for
conversion to S?

The tank measures about 9' in diameter. The frame is way too wide but
bolsters might be built for the ends like mre tankers that don't have a frame
the entire lenght of the car.

John Griffin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16903 From: David Dewey Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Jim,
Thanks for the thoughtful note. Humping? Hmm, in straight sections too?
Since I'm hoping to start on my first "real" layout this fall (IF we get to
move, and IF the space isn't all taken up by existing stuff, etc. etc) I'd
sure like to know about this, as I have LOTS of AF track I was planning to
use (not that I wouldn't want to use the new stuff, but this is in hand, and
the budget is tight). Anyone else have any ideas?
Rolling abilities of the new stuff is amazing, track that seems level
will have a new car roll down a ways, then roll back to apparently , the low
spot! An AF car cab hang tight on a 3% grade! I don't know if the small
number of cars was because of load, I think it was because of expense--after
all, my '57 Yard King Special has 13 cars!
I sure do prefer an operating layout to a static display, as I am
certain the visitors do also. It's just that part of the "charm" of the old
stuff is also that tinplate track. As to regular operations, I'm sure larger
curves than AF's usual are helpful too! I imagine there will be some on my
future layout too! Bear in mind that I also "like" reverse units, so my
reference point is, um, shall we say, "odd?"
The museum is one of my "must sees" if I ever get back that way.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16904 From: David Dewey Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Sacramento GATS
Heads up! Howard'S trainS and the "demo" layout will be at the Sacramento
Show, to be held at Cal Expo 11 AM to 5 PM, $7 admission, Kids under 12
FREE. They claim over 400 tables, and 9 operating layouts! I think you can
get a dollar-off coupon from gats.com.
Of course "The Train Dr." will be there running the layout. ;-)
Gotta go pack, later!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16905 From: David Dewey Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Re: Need your help on 770 paper trestle Bridge sections
While I haven't heard about all the variations on these, I don't think the
bridge itself uses banked cross pieces. I believe these were used on a set
that used something like 9 or 10 trestles to do the ramp up, instead of the
usual--I believe it was intended for a figure 8, so the banks were on
curves. Must have been a pretty steep grade!
We only had the paper ones when I was growing up. They disappeared when
we moved across the driveway to the new house, along with the original
instructions for painting the panels on my Scene-a-Rama set. I'm still
looking for a replacement for those instructions (a Four-color, large
fold-out).
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16906 From: srgriggs Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: AF 305 Atlantic on eBay
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1692188788

This caught my eye. I requested better photos from the seller and
posted them in the files section under the "Gilbert 305" folder
heading. My bid was overtaken at $66. I don't think it is authentic,
but it is a pretty good approximation of what I would expect a real AF
305 to look like. Since it has the tip of a screw and nut in the
proper location on the tender bottom, it appears to have an airchime
whistle speaker inside (although this is just speculation--no photos
with the tender shell removed). It could very well be a 285 or 295
tender frame installed into a renumbered Atlantic. Interesting that
there are no sliding pickup shoes on the tender trucks (which I would
expect if this tender frame came from a 285 or 295). The "305" cab
font looks the same as that of a 302AC, produced around the same time
as this engine would have been made if it is an engineering prototype.
It's also curious that this engine has a four piece die-cast boiler
when (circa 1950-1951) the company was switching Atlantics to one
piece with integral handrails to reduce cost.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16907 From: trzp1800 Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Old Turnouts and newbie discoveries
Hi:
This post is for those of us new to taking our vintage equipment
apart. I had not seen this informtion in any of my books.

Just wanted to share my latest discovery re: AF turnouts. I have
several old XA-9927 units, these are the early manual ones that have
the "square", flat sided rails. The track pins set into the rail ends
on these units have the last 1/8-inch of their length bent down,
inside the rail, so you cannot pull the pins out. These ends fit into
a gap in the plastic base over which the rail is formed, and so will
not pull out. If you try and just pull these pins out you will either
break off the base plastic, which several of my turnouts show
evidence of, or, as happened to me tonight, the rail will pull free
of the base. NOW i know how those other units were broken by the
previous owners.

To remove the pins, turn the unit over and straighten out the metal
rail tabs inserted through the base. Then you can lift up the matal
rail and lift and remove the track pin. Installation is the reverse.

Discovered this while trying to install some insulating pins using
the "brute strength" approach to old rusted equipment. There's a nice
symetry to this, extinct equipment being operated by a neanderthal.

Regards
Group: S-Trains Message: 16908 From: ron inscho Date: 1/24/2002
Subject: Re: Track Cleaning Car
I got one new on 1956 and that's just about the way it worked. When it will
stay on the track it just moves the dirt around any way. The best one I have
found is the one made by centerline it really works
----- Original Message -----
From: "John L." <larry.asp@...>
Cc: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 9:24 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Track Cleaning Car


> Recently picked up a 648 track cleaning car for the AF set. Is there a
trick or two
> to use it properly? It came with felt pads, and I wet them with a track
cleaner fluid
> - then hooked it to a diecast 302. The car did go round the track, but
slowed the
> engine right down, made it spin wheels etc., came off the track, and
uncoupled etc.
> Can you do something with the spring, is there a proper type of fluid to
use etc., or
> should one get new pads etc.?
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16909 From: David Dewey Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Old Turnouts and newbie discoveries
Good point, one that I will include in my Dispatch article on switch
servicing. Part 1 is about ready to send to Jeff. I do mention the
proceedure for replacing these, didn't think about removal for insulated
pins!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16910 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Track Cleaning Car
Have your tried the Aztec car with the "bright boy" roller? We use these at
shows and like them a lot.
Don

ron inscho wrote:

> I got one new on 1956 and that's just about the way it worked. When it will
> stay on the track it just moves the dirt around any way. The best one I have
> found is the one made by centerline it really works

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 16911 From: af21115 Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: AF 305 Atlantic on eBay
An original and correct 305 would be lettered American Flyer Lines
not American Flyer. As observed there are no pick up shoes on the
tender trucks, and to me the number under the cab is obviously faked.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16912 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: 305
Since a 305 is supposed to be a 1951 model,why wouldn't American Flyer be
the correct tender lettering?

Keith


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Group: S-Trains Message: 16913 From: Gill W. Lott Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Timonium Train Show
Go to this site & you'll find the info about the show.

http://entertainment.sunspot.net/top/1,1419,p-artslife-searchresults-CalendarSearch!EventDetail-2939,00.html

TSNSITM
Group: S-Trains Message: 16914 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Ovaltine (was Oveltine ?)
J. Fred sed:
>What about Oveltine? They were big, sponsored radio shows, had premiems,
and are still >around bragging about being better for you .

Not in my neighborhood! No Halsey Bop from Ridgewood ever drank Ovaltine,
sheesh!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16915 From: Neimanis,V. [NCR] Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Switches and Power
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:43:44 -0500 (EST)
From: "Rhett T. George" <rtg@...>
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1298

- Dave -

You have certainly made a careful and well-documented study of two 720A
turnouts. Thanks.

Two comments regarding your results. Some digital VOM's have very high
input impedances in the megohm range. This allows capacitive coupling
between turnout parts to introduce a volt or two into the unpowered exit
track. A 50k ohm resistor connected from one voltmeter probe to the
other may reduce the measured voltage down to millivolts.

Regarding your remarks about the right-hand turnout and the Regular/
2-Train mode switch, you note that the switch connects or disconnects
the outer rails of A' and B. I think of the outer rail or stock rail
for A' as the one which runs straight thru from A and which has no
provision for being disconnected. I think I need to understand your
description better. I'll work on that.

Thanks and cheer"S" Rhett


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Thanks for all the wiring comments/advice /discussion on switches. My
layout has an intermittent short and it might be because of the pattern by
which the switches are arranged.

I have read somewhere in the literature that AF said to always us the
switches in pairs - that is a LH and a RH. I didn't think I did that out in
my layout and am starting to maybe appreciate the significance of their
instructions. The powering of the rails helps solve part of that riddle.

Thanks for the insights and discussion. Any further insights on why to pair
the switches would be valuable.

V. Neimanis
Group: S-Trains Message: 16916 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Great Idea (was Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rai
Jim wrote to David (Duck) Dewey:
> IF you ever make it to the right coast, let us know, we'll get some
> S-Gaugers together at NTTM, I'm only minutes away.

David:
Now here's a great idea.
Why don't you plan on coming to York?
If you and some of your Alternate Coast affiliates out there care to make
the pilgrimage together, we could put together a delegation on this end and:

1.) Guarantee guest entry for all non-TCA members,
2.) Sign your applications if you want to join,
3.) Arrange for a cool party with food and beer (MMMmmmmm, Beer!),
4.) Have a generally great time introducing you to the mother of all train
shows.
5.) Introduce you to Don Thompson and his crew, Doug Peck, the Vanacores
and a bunch of S-Gauge notables who show up there,
6.) See the TT Museum, the PA museum, the Caboose Motel, and ride the
Strasburg Steam Train (all in a stone's throw distance from each
other.)
7.) Find out why we continue to live here in spite of the weather!

This might take a little advance planning, but, there is a show in April and
again in October. Think this thing through. Put a group together and we
can have a little East meets West driving of the S-Gauge Brass Spike.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16917 From: Tom Pennington Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Timonium Train Show
Below is the actual site for the show sponsors.
http://www.gsmts.com/index_save.htm


At 08:39 AM 1/25/2002 -0500, Gill W. Lott wrote:
>Go to this site & you'll find the info about the show.
>
>http://entertainment.sunspot.net/top/1,1419,p-artslife-searchresults-CalendarSearch!EventDetail-2939,00.html
>
>TSNSITM
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16918 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Track Cleaning Car
John says:
>Recently picked up a 648 track cleaning car for the AF set. Is there a
trick or two
>to use it properly? It came with felt pads, and I wet them with a track
cleaner fluid
>- then hooked it to a diecast 302. The car did go round the track, but
slowed the
>engine right down, made it spin wheels etc., came off the track, and
uncoupled etc.
>Can you do something with the spring, is there a proper type of fluid to
use etc., or
>should one get new pads etc.?

Wow, John. If your cleaning car is putting down that much force, it must be
cleaning! Best bet - Walther's catalog has track cleaning fluid.
Windshield washer fluid can work. A combination of clear ammonia, isopropyl
alcohol and water will also do the trick. Stay away from flammable
benzene/kerosene based cleaners and NEVER USE GASOLINE, NEVER! The fumes
these generate will hang low in your basement and maybe cause a fire when
your water heater comes on.

Only the lead wipers get wet. The trailing wipers dry the track. Put a
bigger engine on the job, preferably one with traction tires. If you are
getting slowdowns on the far side, you need booster jumpers hooked up to
even out the current flow. Your tracks may be losing too much electrically
in their physical section to section connections.

This car provides a lot of resistance, so run it without a train. I run two
of them for a double wipe-down. (Front wipers on each car are wet, rear on
each are dry). An Atlantic with traction tires takes them both around with
no trouble. My only complaint is that the outer wipers pop off. I keep a
lit caboose on the back so I can quickly see that the train is complete,
even in subdued light.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16919 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Track "Humping" Problem
By the way, to see what that "humping" problem was with the track, go to
http://www.top-greetings.com/art/404/ for a picture of it. It will give
you an insight into why the replacement was necessary.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16920 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Incantations Etc.
Less Incalescence, More Incandescence.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 16921 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: car warpage
I was doing some work the other day near one of the large rail yards
near Denver and was (of course) watching the trains instead. I noticed
a LOT of the tank cars had the typical sagging in the center like we see
on the early Gilbert cars. Fortunately, the real cars didn't have the
trucks lifting up off the tracks. Almost makes you think that AC may
have intentionally had the cars warp with time.

Has anyone tried to reshape warping tank and box cars, maybe with heat,
with any success?

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO
Group: S-Trains Message: 16922 From: David Dewey Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Great Idea (was Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high
Great idea, but not in the foreseable future budget! There are two west
coast people I know who do make the trek, however. Their reports leave me
drooling--and not just for Funnel Cake!
The invite is greatly appreciated! Anyone want to donate to the Dewey to
York Fund??
;-)
S
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16923 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Great Idea (was Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high
Who are you kidding? Didn't any of that Disney money filter down? What
about Unca Scrooge's fortune? You must be in line for some of that.

Put some nickles and dimes away in a jar and plan for October.

Chris Zizzo




> Great idea, but not in the foreseable future budget! There are two west
> coast people I know who do make the trek, however. Their reports leave me
> drooling--and not just for Funnel Cake!
> The invite is greatly appreciated! Anyone want to donate to the Dewey to
> York Fund??
> ;-)
> S
> David D.
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16924 From: David Dewey Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Great Idea (was Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high
Nickels and Dimes???
WOW!! The deals at York must be even better than I've heard!!!
;-)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16925 From: David Dewey Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: 720A two train switch
VEEDRY INTERSTINK!!
Here I am in the midst of writing my "Fixin' Flyer" column for the
Dispatch (blatant PLUG here, if you didn't notice) on switches, and someone
brings up something I never noticed before--or if I had, I'd forgotten.
It seems all the switches are wired this way, 720 (type 1 and 2) and 720As.
I suspect the folks at ACG thought we would only use them in pairs of left
and right, so they saved money on the two-train switch by having it a
single-pole switch. I have checked my numerous samples of each, and they are
all the same. Gee, for once ACG was extremely consistent!
THANK YOU ALL who posted on this!! Part 2 of my column will mention this
quirk.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16926 From: Horn, David Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Timonium show this weekend
http://www.gsmts.com/a_vendors.html

I found a link with more info. Apparently it is associated with Great Scale
Trains Shows and non-scale is getting folded into this event.

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Thompson [mailto:robin@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 10:02 PM
To: special_treasures_4sale
Subject: Re: Timonium show this weekend


Dear Dave,
It is an non-affiliated meet. I do not have the hours, but 9-5 or
maybe 9-4 seems about right.
Don

special_treasures_4sale wrote:

> Who is the sponsoring organization? Is it GATS, Greenberg, or some
> one else? What are the hours Sat and Sun? Thank you. Dave

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
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contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
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views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16927 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Funny Ebay auctions
This seller has a number of S gadge (?) items up for auction. This one
is minty!

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1692588179

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Group: S-Trains Message: 16928 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Funny Ebay auctions
Do you know if they are peppermint or spearmint? I'm not very partial to spearmint.
I wonder where these guys make up these terms? I've seen several lately where a car
was described as "crisp, in the original box". Are these supposed to be eaten like
crackers?

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO



Scott Holm wrote:

> This seller has a number of S gadge (?) items up for auction. This one
> is minty!
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1692588179
>
> __________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16929 From: Horn, David Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: 720A AF switches
Sorry I wasn't more clear about the outer rail. But yes, I was referring to
the straight-through uninterrupted piece on either switch. Such that a
right hand switch next to a left hand switch looks like this |/ \| and the
vertical lines represent the "outer rail".

I'm glad some of you found my post interesting. I haven't even had the time
yet to think through what all it means (or doesn't mean for that matter) or
what it might help to explain, but I wanted to post it as information (I
sort of figured some of you would take the data and run with it a bit like
you did, one of the best parts of this list).

I've always thought that when in "Regular" mode both exits got complete
power, but they don't. In fact L and R switches complement each other so
that when used in pairs it looks that way, but solo that's not the case.
They're mode switches are even wired differently.

Also, Wayne was having trouble with some modern engines on a siding only
running in one direction (possibly not toggling their rev unit). I was
wondering if any one else might have had observed that and perhaps the odd
trickle of ~2 volts I found may have had something to do with it. I thought
the data might click with others who read it. If I get the chance to
analyze that apparent voltage "leak" further I'll let you know, but that's
what my auto-ranging digital VOM produced. In the cases where I said "no
power" it was actually bouncing around between zero to very low level mV
(i.e <25mv, or basically noise), but in the cases of .X to 1.X volts that
was steady and only increased or decreased as I moved the throttle control.

Dave
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
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of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16930 From: srgriggs Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: AF 305 Atlantic on eBay
--- In S-Trains@y..., "af21115" <Dave0616@A...> wrote:
> An original and correct 305 would be lettered American Flyer Lines
> not American Flyer. As observed there are no pick up shoes on the
> tender trucks, and to me the number under the cab is obviously
faked.

I agree with you on pickup shoes and probably cab lettering, but why
do you think tender would be lettered "American Flyer Lines" and not
just American Flyer (sans-serif) as on 285, 295, 315, etc?
Group: S-Trains Message: 16931 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Old time locomotives
Dear Steve:
The Franklin and Washington are good looking locomotives. But they
are really On3 on an S scale chassis.
If you are really interested in this era and size, find a copy of
the February issue of Model Railroader. There is an article about modeling
1900 in HO but all of the size issues (1900 vs. 1940 vs. 2002) are here and
valid.

Thorin

--- Original Message ---
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 19:36:56 -0500
From: Steve Blancard <splitdorf@...>
Subject: Old time locomotives

Besides the Franklin/Washington series, has there ever been any other
1860-1890 style locomotives made in S-scale? ACG or other
manufacturers? This is my hands down favorite era but I have found
nothing to fill this void other than my Franklin. While I like the
Franklin, it lacks a lot.

I have toyed with the idea of taking a Franklin junker and building a
more detailed version using its boiler and chassis. Thought I could
scratch build a wooden cab, remove the steam and sand dome and replace
them with brass items. Also remove the dummy headlight and make a
working headlight. Also make a new stack with a different shape and
screened at the top. Perhaps add more realistic wheels and maybe make
the valve gear more realistic too.

I realize the Franklin is a bit out of scale but I need to start
somewhere. Anyone have ideas for a project like this? I'd enjoy
hearing your comments.

Steve Blancard



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16932 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail
Dear Jim:
Before I rebuilt this area, my Grain Elevator module was at a
horrible slope. To keep the SHS PS-2 covered hoppers from rolling away, I
used to mix AF covered hoppers with them. One AF to each SHS. The AF would
keep both from rolling away.
The American Flyer cars roll with all the freedom normally
associated with bricks.

I love 'em and run 'em.
Thorin

--- Original Message --
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 21:17:41 EST
From: WJJIM@...
Subject: Re: Musings on wheels and track, scale and high-rail

David,
<Snip>
Easy way to check this, set up parallel tracks ten feet (or whatever) long

and put a Flyer or Flyonel on one and ANYBODY ELSE'S CAR on the other. Give
them a shove. Bet the Flyer or Flyonel don't travel nearly as far.
Jim



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16933 From: DSapadin Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Laying Homabed and Gargraves Track
Hello:

I have been all sorts of differing opinions on this one so I am
looking for consensus before I start hammering and making holes. I
have S-Homabed, and I have Gargraves flex track. I need to make some
curves the orig AF radius which is about 19-20" because of space
issues.

What's the best way to go about this installation? Should I put the
Homabed down 1st (Its going on top of 3/4" plywood) and if so should
I use nails or screws? Or, do I have to put the Track and the
Homabed down at the same time - again, using nails or screws through
the wood ties? If the latter, how do you get this stuff down without
it "springing back" while you are trying to do all this?

Any help would be most appreciated!!!

Thank you!

David Sapadin
david@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 16934 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Old time locomotives
Ack! I just double checked and the issue is January 2002 Model Railroader.
(It is the issue I am currently reading.)

Enjoy the reading!

Thorin

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Blancard [mailto:splitdorf@...]
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 2:16 PM
To: Marty.Thorin
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: Old time locomotives

Thanks, I will look for a copy tomorrow at Timonium.

Steve

"Marty.Thorin" wrote:

> Dear Steve:
> The Franklin and Washington are good looking locomotives. But
they
> are really On3 on an S scale chassis.
> If you are really interested in this era and size, find a copy of
> the February issue of Model Railroader. There is an article about
modeling
> 1900 in HO but all of the size issues (1900 vs. 1940 vs. 2002) are here
and
> valid.
>
> Thorin
>
> --- Original Message ---
> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 19:36:56 -0500
> From: Steve Blancard <splitdorf@...>
> Subject: Old time locomotives
>
> Besides the Franklin/Washington series, has there ever been any other
> 1860-1890 style locomotives made in S-scale? ACG or other
> manufacturers? This is my hands down favorite era but I have found
> nothing to fill this void other than my Franklin. While I like the
> Franklin, it lacks a lot.
>
> I have toyed with the idea of taking a Franklin junker and building a
> more detailed version using its boiler and chassis. Thought I could
> scratch build a wooden cab, remove the steam and sand dome and replace
> them with brass items. Also remove the dummy headlight and make a
> working headlight. Also make a new stack with a different shape and
> screened at the top. Perhaps add more realistic wheels and maybe make
> the valve gear more realistic too.
>
> I realize the Franklin is a bit out of scale but I need to start
> somewhere. Anyone have ideas for a project like this? I'd enjoy
> hearing your comments.
>
> Steve Blancard
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16935 From: DSapadin Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Help with laying track with Homabed!
Hello:

I have received all sorts of conflicting advice on this one, so I am
looking for more input to try and see if I can find a trend! I have
S-Homabed, and I have Gargraves S flex track. The Homabed will go on
top of 3/4" plywood. I am trying to decide how best to lay the
homabed and then track onto the homabed. Some have told me to do both
at once which seems like it would be very difficult to do, esp. with
the flex-track curves springing around as they do. Any input would be
appreciated!

Thanks,

David Sapadin
david@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 16936 From: af21115 Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: AF 305 Atlantic on eBay
Several people have asked why American Flyer Lines instead of
American Flyer on the tender. Of the small amount of literature I was
able to find, thats what was given. Granted, it should not be AFL if
it truly was a 1951 loco, but if any of these were actually made, who
knows what they used to piece a sample together....or when. They
could have had the idea in 1951, attempted to catalog it, and then
shelved it until 1953 then using a sheet metal AFL tender at that
time. This is NOT likely however, and this loco is very questionable,
and is most probably a hoax. I'll explain. One thing I can tell you
given that the tender on a 1951 loco was supposed to be AF and not
AFL. The tender shell on this loco has no holes in the side to
prevent the chassis from arching up into the body. This was a late
1948 feature, and was definitely in place by 1951, so the tender
shell is wrong, making lettering questions moot anyway. The biggest
thing I see is that if we assume the loco was supposed to be a 1951
loco, because thats when Gilbert tried to catalog it then backed out,
is the fact that this loco is a 4 piece cast loco, and they had not
been made since 1949 when Gilbert went to the 1 piece cast boiler.
So.... either the boys at Gilbert put this pup together from parts in
1947 or possibly early 1948 when the tenders had no holes in the
sides, and the lettering should have been AFL not AF, and the 4 piece
cast boiler was still being used, or this loco is a poor fake put
together out of various parts. The lettering looks real and original
enough. But if it was a 1951 loco it should be a 305AC not a 305. So
thats another problem that makes me think this loco if it was made at
all was made earlier around 1947. If this were true, did Gilbert have
the electronics for the ACW available that early? 3 years before they
were going to be introduced, and 1 year before they even knew Lionel
was going to be a problem with the 314AW type mechanical whistle?
Could it be possible that Gilbert was making the 314 set up for
steamers, and at the same time making an Air Chime for diesels? Then
after the 314AW got blasted in court by Lionel in 1949 they put the
Air Chime in both loco types? Thats interesting theroy to ponder. But
I would say they did not have the Air Chime components in 1947, or if
they did, would have no reason to try them in an Atlantic in 1947 if
they were thinking of going mechanical whistles for steam. With so
many inconsistencies with this loco, and based on this info I
concluded it was an old fake. A true 305 if it were made in limited
sample numbers in 1951 at all would have 305AC under the cab, tender
lettered American Flyer with holes in the side, trucks with pick up
shoes, and a 1 piece cast boiler.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16937 From: Neimanis,V. [NCR] Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: More on 720A AF switches
Interesting commentary.

"I've always thought that when in "Regular" mode both exits got complete
power, but they don't. In fact L and R switches complement each other so
that when used in pairs it looks that way, but solo that's not the case.
They're mode switches are even wired differently."

More questions to ponder :

How (physically in the wiring) and why did AF do this "pairing"?
What do you mean by " They're mode switches are even wired differently"?
If not paired, it is possible to create inadvertent "shorts" depending on
how the suite of "un-paired" switches are switched?

A most valuable observation -- glad this group gets into such specialty
topics!

V.Neimanis

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 20
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:16:20 -0500
From: "Horn, David" <david.horn@...>
Subject:

Sorry I wasn't more clear about the outer rail. But yes, I was referring to
the straight-through uninterrupted piece on either switch. Such that a
right hand switch next to a left hand switch looks like this |/ \| and the
vertical lines represent the "outer rail".

I'm glad some of you found my post interesting. I haven't even had the time
yet to think through what all it means (or doesn't mean for that matter) or
what it might help to explain, but I wanted to post it as information (I
sort of figured some of you would take the data and run with it a bit like
you did, one of the best parts of this list).

I've always thought that when in "Regular" mode both exits got complete
power, but they don't. In fact L and R switches complement each other so
that when used in pairs it looks that way, but solo that's not the case.
They're mode switches are even wired differently.

Also, Wayne was having trouble with some modern engines on a siding only
running in one direction (possibly not toggling their rev unit). I was
wondering if any one else might have had observed that and perhaps the odd
trickle of ~2 volts I found may have had something to do with it. I thought
the data might click with others who read it. If I get the chance to
analyze that apparent voltage "leak" further I'll let you know, but that's
what my auto-ranging digital VOM produced. In the cases where I said "no
power" it was actually bouncing around between zero to very low level mV
(i.e <25mv, or basically noise), but in the cases of .X to 1.X volts that
was steady and only increased or decreased as I moved the throttle control.

Dave
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Group: S-Trains Message: 16938 From: TED R LARSON Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: roofwalk adhesive
I have used brass or stainless steel roofwalks (running boards) on
injection molded
boxcars. I've had trouble with them coming loose. Therefore this
exchange on STMFC@yahoogroups.com caught my eye.

Ted Larson

--------- Forwarded message ----------

Ian sez:
>I have just received some Kadee Apex running boards and Brake wheels.
>WOW they are georgous !
>Now how do I attach them to my non-kadee boxcars ?
>I have drilled holes for the attachment posts, however I need to able
to fix them in position.

Ian,

You can use just about any ACC type cement, but I would reccommend a
new one called "cyanopoxy" that I got through Mike Rose (an active
participant on the prototype modelers list, aka RM Forum). Mike has a
home/internet hobby business and is an Overland dealer. He has a web
page on cyanopoxy at: http://www.mrhobby.com/Cyantips.html
(unfortunately the web site seems to be down this am)

I recently used it to attach some Plano running boards to IM reefers,
and once the paint was removed from the running board supports, it
stuck very well! I applied the cyanopoxy to the supports, spritzed the
running board with a small amount of accelerator (which can be allowed
to dry!) and put the two together - locked down in about 2 seconds!
Because the accelerator works when dry, I glued the running boards down
one or two supports at a time to make sure they were properly aligned.

Happy Rails
Bruce

============

You can use just about any ACC type cement, but I would reccommend a
new one called "cyanopoxy" that I got through Mike Rose.
I recently used it to attach some Plano running boards to IM reefers,
and once the paint was removed from the running board supports, it
stuck very well!

Bruce, does this product have more "give" than other ACC products?
My experience at RPI with photoetched running boards was that ACC
does not have enough "give" to deal with the wide range of climate
changes experienced throughout the year in the Northeast, as well as
more dramatic changes moving rolling stock outside the basement to a
show during the winter - the metal contracts far faster than plastic,
and in the immortal words of Tim O'Connor, "SPROING!" In this case,
a contact cement used sparingly such as Pliobond works better for the
Plano running boards.

That being said, the ACC should work fine on the Kadee boards; being
plastic, they wont be as subject to the problems described above.

Ben Hom

==========

Actually, the stuff has no give at all, and you make a good point about
the running boards...the good news is that they usually don't go SPROING!

with cyanopoxy, they just get wavy, and when the temp gets back to
normal, they flatten back out.

Happy Rails
Bruce

==========

I have lived in a couple of very different climates
(CT and CA) and have never experienced the 'sproing'
effect. One thing that I do (and I highly recommend
it) is to etch the running boards using a mini grit
blaster. On the visible areas, it helps the paint to
bite and on the undersurface, I think that the added
"roughness" gives the ACC something to grab on to. By
the way. if you install the Kadee running boards (and
probably the Plano) without etching or sanding the
part that glues to the saddle, you are asking for
trouble. The engineering plastic in the Kadees (and
possibly the smooth metal surface of the Plano metal)
may provide too smooth a surface for the ACC to bond
to, in the same way that paint flakes right off
engineering plastic trucks.

Ted

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Group: S-Trains Message: 16939 From: David Dewey Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: AF 305 Atlantic on eBay
Lots of interesting speculation here, so I may as well jump in. I can't put
my fingers on the catalog I have somewhere listing the 305, BUT any loco
with a whistling tender would be more expensive than any contemporaries (One
reason I've heard that the 305 didn't make into production--it was the
bottom-line loco.). Given that ACG probably had left-over parts from
previous production laying about, they may have considered using the
multi-cast Atlantic boiler pieces to make a "top-of-the-line" Atlantic with
the new whistle in it too. If this is a pre-production piece, it could be
made out of stuff that was laying about, so it got the earlier tender shell.
I did notice that it appears that the shell tabs have not been tampered
with.
I also noticed the rear pick-up wheel on the rear truck is a pot-metal one,
usually used only on cars, not locos.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16940 From: Dennis Conway Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] roofwalk adhesive
Terrific info, Ted!

Thanks for finding and sharing it.

Dennis Conway
Los Angeles
Group: S-Trains Message: 16941 From: Mark Preman Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Florida GATS
Big train show Feb 2 and 3 in Jacksonville if anyone
is travelling. Mark

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16942 From: John L. Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Japanese S Guage
Was there such a thing as Japanese S gauge trains? I found two cars
today, both tin plate, a bit smaller that AF cars, and they both have a
slightly smaller version of an AF knuckle coupler - but they dont fit
the AF coupler.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16943 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Paper Trestle Set
hey gang-sorry, the cardboard trestle set i have is a
747, the instruction sheet says 747A. No way are there
any banked (superelevated) sections. Amusing side
note-the 2 photos on the box show a kid playing with a
figure 8 track plan, and an oval. The setup is running
an Atlantic with some plug-door reefer, a gon, and a
caboose. Right next to it is a typically dramatic
Gilbert drawing of a Hudson at full throttle hauling a
heavyweight set.A highway flasher with ringing bell
cowers benaeth, waiting for the whole shebang to come
crashing down on it-j. marganski

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Group: S-Trains Message: 16944 From: srgriggs Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: Help with laying track with Homabed!
--- In S-Trains@y..., "DSapadin" <david@d...> wrote:
> Hello:
>
> I have received all sorts of conflicting advice on this one, so I am
> looking for more input to try and see if I can find a trend! I have
> S-Homabed, and I have Gargraves S flex track. The Homabed will go
on
> top of 3/4" plywood. I am trying to decide how best to lay the
> homabed and then track onto the homabed. Some have told me to do
both
> at once which seems like it would be very difficult to do, esp. with
> the flex-track curves springing around as they do. Any input would
be
> appreciated!
>
> Thanks,
>
> David Sapadin
> david@d...

I have used Homabed and American Models' flex track on my layout in
progress. To date, I have put down about 50' of combined Homabed and
AM track and another 48 feet of Homabed by itself (haven't put the
track down on it yet).

I have been very satisfied with the results of both products and as I
said, I put the Homabed down first, then track (not both at the same
time). I designed my layout with wide radius mainline curves (84"
diameter on the loop I have completed) and even with such gentle
curves, bending the Homabed requires a substantial amount of
force. I can't imagine trying to lay track and roadbed simultaneously
(especially with tighter radius curves). The Homabed is split down
the middle--how do you hold all of this assembly together while you
position and bend it?

Putting the Homabed down first, one side at a time, allows you to
follow a marked centerline very closely. I glued the Homabed down
with carpenter's glue, using tacks to hold it in place until the glue
dried. I then pulled out the tacks and sealed the homasote with latex
paint. Unfortunately, I think the paint degrades the noise absorption
properties of the homasote, but I was concerned about humidity effects
and wanted to play it safe. If you're more comfortable with
unpainted homasote, you will probably have a quieter running layout.

The split in the Homabed gives you a perfect centerline to lay your
track, too. I made up several little square blocks of high grade 3/4"
plywood cut to fit just snugly between the railheads of the track.
Next, I drove a sharp nail into center of each block. When bending
the track around curves, I drove the nail in each block into the
centerline seam between Homabed sections. When the block was pushed
down between the railheads, it forced the track into near perfect
alignment with the curve centerline for fastening. My goal was to
have no metal to conduct sound between the track ties and plywood
subroadbed, so I used 1/4" #0 brass wood screws to hold the track to
the Homabed. They are long enough to get a good bite into the
homasote, but not so long that they protrude all the way to the
plywood. I use a small countersunk hole in the AM track ties to
accept the screws on about 3" centers. The screws are hardly
noticeable and the track is very secure. If you use track with
thicker ties (like Gargraves), you would need different (longer)
screws.

Sorry for the long post. If you have any more questions, you can send
me an email.

Scott
Group: S-Trains Message: 16945 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Night S-Trains Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Night S-Trains Chat

Date: Saturday, January 26, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:00PM EST (GMT-05:00)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat - Join Us in the
'Group' Chat room!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16946 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: WP observation car
Greetings, still unsuccessful in my search for a Lionel/AF, WP, California
Zephyr Observation Car. Anyone in the group know where I might be able to
locate one of these? Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!
Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 16947 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: japanese s gauge
There were some cheap battery powered lithographed tinplate S gauge trains
made in Japan. They were actually quite attractive. The batteries went
inside the locomotives. Those were the first electric trains I ever owned.
Mine were Baltimore and Ohio. They did not have anything like knuckle
couplers though. Perhaps you have something else there.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 16948 From: ron inscho Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: Re: japanese s gauge
I have seen these with both kinds of couplers & a B&O & NYC f unit sort of
eng. don't know the mfr. but they were made of cheap jap. tin & appear to be
somewhat fragile as I have not seen a complete set
----- Original Message -----
From: <jarcho@...>
To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 11:30 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] japanese s gauge


> There were some cheap battery powered lithographed tinplate S gauge trains
> made in Japan. They were actually quite attractive. The batteries went
> inside the locomotives. Those were the first electric trains I ever
owned.
> Mine were Baltimore and Ohio. They did not have anything like knuckle
> couplers though. Perhaps you have something else there.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16949 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/25/2002
Subject: 720-A switches
These switches have two rails at the point end and four rails at the frog end.

The switches cut off power to whichever of the two inner short rails on the
four rail end the switch is thrown against. One of these is straight and
one is curved. This assumes that power is fed to the track from the two
rail or point end of the switch.

The little "2 train oper" buttons override this feature.

The button on the right handed switch overrides the cutoff of power to its
short curved rail when the switch is in the straight position.

The button on the left handed switch overrides the cutoff of power to its
short straight rail when the switch is in the curved position.

his can be useful to know when the rail involved is the base post rail and
you want to operate action cars on a siding.

The track power switching capability of Flyer switches makes it much easier
to stop some trains while others run

Tom Jarcho.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16950 From: John L. Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Transformer and Deisel Horn Queestions
Two Questions - First - I picked up a 15B transformer, working, but does
not shut off completely at the 0 or end stop postion. However it has a
dead man control handle which will shut off it off when lifted. Is this
the proper way for it to operate, or should I be looking inside to
adjust a wiper etc.

Second - I aquired a deisel horn controller. There is a black tubular
item that plugs into a 4 prong socket on the button control that looks
for all the world like a vibrator from a 1950s car radio. Is this what
it is, if so, I have a couple more in my Ham Radio parts junk box.

Yes - Im a fool twice over - two hobbies spilling over into my 60th
year from my childhood.

My compliments and thanks to this group - for the help and advice youve
given me.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16951 From: af21115 Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Re: Japanese S Guage
Yes, I saw two such sets at a small shop in Lakeland Florida. The
owner there has come across quite a few oddities. I don't know who
made them, or where they might have been sold here if at all. But
they do exist.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16952 From: yazfacts Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Controller Box Question......
Dear Group,
I recently bought the K775 Loader and it came with the 974
Operating Box Car.The controller for the operaring box car has four
wires that are solder to it.All my other American Flyer controllers
just use two wires.Does anyone out ther know how to wire this
controller up so that I can activate the operating 974 box car ??
Please post any and all answers , or e-mail me directly
yazfacts@... Thanks as always.......Bob S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16953 From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Re: Japanese S scale
I never saw an example, but Japanese-made S-scale sets were listed in the
Sears Canada catalogues of the early 1960s. I believe the brand name
was Sakai. The sets were available only in Canada but included no cars
with Canadian road names! So much for Japanese marketing know-how.
I have a steam generator which was originally a more-or-less-S tinplate
car made by a Japanese company called Modern Toy.
Doubtless there are others.
Joe Pereira

email: sigma@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 16954 From: Alex Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Horn Questions and Hams
Hi John:

The tubular plug-in is indeed a vibrator, although it's dedicated to the
Flyer whistle/horn application. There were actually two such plug-ins; one
for the whistle and one for the horn.

The call here is AI2Q, and have been on the air continuously since 1959.
Maybe we can meet on the air and discuss American flyer and S gauge. I
wonder if there are any other Radio Amateurs (hams) that are S gauge
enthusiasts?

Vy 73, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-.



-----Original Message-----
From: John L. [mailto:larry.asp@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 9:07 AM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Transformer and Deisel Horn Queestions


Two Questions - First - I picked up a 15B transformer, working, but does
not shut off completely at the 0 or end stop postion. However it has a
dead man control handle which will shut off it off when lifted. Is this
the proper way for it to operate, or should I be looking inside to
adjust a wiper etc.

Second - I aquired a deisel horn controller. There is a black tubular
item that plugs into a 4 prong socket on the button control that looks
for all the world like a vibrator from a 1950s car radio. Is this what
it is, if so, I have a couple more in my Ham Radio parts junk box.

Yes - Im a fool twice over - two hobbies spilling over into my 60th
year from my childhood.

My compliments and thanks to this group - for the help and advice youve
given me.


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 16955 From: IronHorse Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Re: Japanese S scale
I have a train called "Continental Flyer" I think it may be one of those
Japanese trains. " Now where did I put that darn thing"?
I found it. It was in a cubby in my train room.
Anyway, --- Yup, Made in Japan, Tin. Tis an inch between the rails.
So it is a bit larger than "S". It is just an all out toy for little kids, but
in good shape.
Once upon a time there was a person trying to start a company called
"Continental Flyer" In "S".
This was to replace the void left by the Gilbert plant closing down.
The company never came to be. But I picked up this train, made in Japan
so I could say. "Continental Flyer Was made. See, -- I have one?" ;o}

Roger



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16956 From: Alan C Udy Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: A Sensible Size
That is the title of Tony Koester's Trains of Thought comentary in the
February 2002 Model Railroader. Yes, is is complimentary about S, and
reports on theSteamtown NASG Convention.

Alan Udy, RMHRS
Idaho Falls, ID
________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 16957 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Re: Transformer and Deisel Horn Queestions
See below:

"John L." wrote:
>
> Two Questions - First - I picked up a 15B transformer, working, but does
> not shut off completely at the 0 or end stop postion. However it has a
> dead man control handle which will shut off it off when lifted. Is this
> the proper way for it to operate, or should I be looking inside to
> adjust a wiper etc.
It's doing what it's supposed to. In my mind much less convenient than
the plain wiper transformers.
>
> Second - I aquired a deisel horn controller. There is a black tubular
> item that plugs into a 4 prong socket on the button control that looks
> for all the world like a vibrator from a 1950s car radio. Is this what
> it is, if so, I have a couple more in my Ham Radio parts junk box.

That's what it is.
>
> Yes - Im a fool twice over - two hobbies spilling over into my 60th
> year from my childhood.
Thank God we don't outgrow this stuff!
>
> My compliments and thanks to this group - for the help and advice youve
> given me.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 16958 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Re: Need your help on 770 paper trestle Bridge sections
Thank you to all on this list who have searched for a
770 trestle set for me. Still no luck in finding it.
For those who have the K-Line Complete Service Manual
for American Flyer trains, you can see the banked
trestles on page 272, and the bridge sections which I
am searching for on page 273. Both the Greenberg 2002
price guide and the 2000 TM price guide list the item
at fairly low value. I guess it is illusive because it
is a paper product. Thanks again for all who
responded to me. If anyone does find one, please keep
me in mind. regards Michael
--- Michael Christensen <semaphoresam@...>
wrote:
>
>
> I am looking for a 770 Trestle Set. This paper
> trestle
> set is very hard to find. I have a plastic set of AF
> trestles on my layout, but I want to buy a 770 set
> in
> order that I can utilize the "bridge" sides and the
> long trestles that go with them. If you have such a
> set for sale, please contact me off list. If you own
> a
> set but don't wish to sell, perhaps you can help me
> fabricate my own set. I need the following:
> 1)Dimensions of the long and short sides of the
> bridge.
>
> 2)Dimensions of the 6 long bridge cross ties.I think
> that these cross ties were banked.
>
> 3)If possible a photo of both the bridge sides and
> the
> long cross ties.
>
> Thanks for helping me. I will post a photo of the
> results when I complete this product.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
> http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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Group: S-Trains Message: 16959 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1303
In a message dated 01/26/2002 3:10:25 PM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> The call here is AI2Q, and have been on the air continuously since 1959.
> Maybe we can meet on the air and discuss American flyer and S gauge. I
> wonder if there are any other Radio Amateurs (hams) that are S gauge
> enthusiasts?
>
> Vy 73, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-.
>
>
>
>

There's me....WB7NSE in Idaho.....Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16960 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Night S-Trains Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Night S-Trains Chat

Date: Saturday, January 26, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:00PM EST (GMT-05:00)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat - Join Us in the
'Group' Chat room!
Group: S-Trains Message: 16961 From: Tom Young Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: 770 paper trestle Bridge sections
Michael,
Saw the 770 trestle for sale at http://martystrains.com/, he has only
one. It's listed as VG+ and he wants $20.00.
Good L:uck, Tom Young
Group: S-Trains Message: 16962 From: Scott Brown Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Horn Questions and Hams
Alex and John,

I have met several American Flyer men that are also Hams. Well, some of us think we are funny anyways. LOL.

Scott Brown
KC6UPX (now in Virginia)
Also look for David Bollinger WC4J (fellow AF club member)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16963 From: Scott Brown Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: 302 prices
Everbody start digging out your old Atlantic 302s. They are apparently THE engine to sell right now. I'm watching them go for between $120 and $140 and that is for the used with some rub marks type, NOT the LN with original wrapper type. I'm puzzled as heck, but it seems they are in demand right now and can get the price. Each engine seems to be popular for a season and the price shoots up, then falls back down to realistic pricing again when the next engine takes it's place. From hobby stores to ebay( http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1694269082 I'm seeing 302's getting big bucks. SELL SELL SELL !!!

Scott Brown


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16964 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Re: 302 prices
In a message dated 1/26/02 10:36:07 PM, sbrown56@... writes:

<< Everybody start digging out your old Atlantic 302s. They are apparently
THE engine to sell right now. >>

Yeah, they have caught on. Die-cast 302s and 302ACs are nice engines. They
smoke and choo-choo, are handsome, fun to collect and to operate. ..... and,
they won't be repro'd!

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 16965 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Die Cast?
Does die cast mean Metal or that it was cast in a Die Sorry was always
confused about this term. Thank You Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16966 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Re: Die Cast?
Mreans metal that was cast in a die.

anormal1@... wrote:
>
> Does die cast mean Metal or that it was cast in a Die Sorry was always
> confused about this term. Thank You Mike S.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 16967 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Engine bearings / motor noise
I have two groups of questions, and hope that our more technical types
might have some answers.

i have got a 283 that just does not run right despite being completely
overhauled. Now that's ok, every once in a while a loco like this comes
along. It took me more than 10 years to get my childhood 0-8-0 to run
perfectly, and i had a battle with a large motor Hudson that lasted about 7
years, ending in perfection. This 283 is still too noisy and not as fast
as it should be. I'm ready to keep at it until its action becomes sweet
again, but this time I feel like I want more information.

I wonder how much it would help our Flyer steam locos' performance if we
had NEW replacement armature bearings to pop into them. The front bearing
slips into the chassis and the rear one into the brush mount. I almost
never encounter these bearings without they show signs of serious wear,
most commonly an oval hole. The I.D. appears to be roughly 5/32" which is
not a standard bearing size to my knowledge, at least not a common one. I
have many times replaced a bearing with a less worn one, but unused ones
are not available to my knowledge.

has anyone ever tried this? I imagine it would be difficult to duplicate
the four little ridges on the outside of the bearings that keep them from
spinning, in a home workshop. Perhaps it would be necessary to do without
them and simply glue the new bearings in place.

But I would like to know what kind of motor improvement we would get from
new bearings with round true holes. I also wonder if anyone has ever
replaced the front bearing with a ball bearing.

Are there any Lionel bearings that are useable in Flyer steamers?

I also wonder about motor noise. What causes motor noise? what part of
the motor generates it, and how is it amplified and transmitted? I know
that loose bearings can cause "chatter" but this cannot be the only cause.
I have had Baldwin power trucks with new armature bearings that were still
loud.

So what goes on to cause these effects, and how can motor noise be
combatted? Why is the sawmill so loud? Why is a Casey Jones louder than
an an Atlantic? Why is an "F-9" so loud? Why is a Baldwin so loud? Why
is this damn 283 so loud?

What if I pulled out the armature bearings and glued them back in with
silicone, adding a bead of silicone around the bearing flanges where
present. Would the silicone absorb vibration and make for a quieter motor?
Are there any other useful ways to quiet a small electric motor?

Thanks in advance.

Tom Jarcho

Incidentally, the next two things I'm going to try on the 283 are a
different armature and a different brush bracket. The armature shaft might
have a slight bend in it that cannot be detected w the naked eye, and the
old brush bracket may be warped.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16968 From: mlmarmer Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Ebay Heading
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1695592302

This for all of you who like make fun for Lionel, Here is a new term for you in future emails.

I see that 305 "announced, but never released" went for big bucks, $99. Right. Fake in my book.

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16969 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Mel's Diner
Has anyone in this group purchased an MTH Mel's Diner? I tried to wire it
up tonight & it is very confusing. Maybe I was just tired, but does not
make sense to me & does not work correctly. Any help would be
appreciated.

Thanks!

Mike Leahy
Group: S-Trains Message: 16970 From: jahoozdumm Date: 1/26/2002
Subject: Re: Japanese S scale
sigma@e wrote...

>I never saw an example, but Japanese-made S-scale sets were listed
>in the Sears Canada catalogues of the early 1960s. I believe the
>brand name was Sakai.

I see Sakai trains turn up every now and then at TTOS meets, and it's
a safe bet TCA guys run across them from time to time as well.

Sakai trains were not S gauge, but were pretty much S scale, at least
in the sense that Marx and prewar AF 3/16" scale trains were. They
were made for running on 3-rail zero gauge track. At a distance, they
are often mistaken for Marx 3/16" scale O, and the rolling stock
converts to S gauge just as easily. I have a Sakai "Pegasus" tank car
that runs on Gilbert link trucks. Naturally, it looks much better now
than it did on its original trucks.

Sakai kinda fudged American corporate logos in interesting ways. The
tank car shows a red winged horse (a-la Mobil) on a yellow tank (a-la
Shell Oil). Their boxcar is litho'ed red and grey, with the
name "Hudson Central" in a spot you'd expect to read "New York
Central". Pretty slick...

Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16971 From: yazfacts Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Bulb info.......
Dear Group,
I have the R.B. & B.B.Circus Billboard that lights up.The
two bulbs in there blew out. They were 14V bulbs.I replaced them with
two 18V bulbs.Does anyone out ther think this will cause any damage
to my billboard ?? Please post any all answers, or e-mail me directly
at yazfacts@... Thanks....Bob S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16972 From: Don or Marsha Munsey, Jr Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Potential S Convert
Came across this msg on the layout design list. Anyone out there with a
little more construction experience than I able to help David?


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Frederick" <defrede@...>
To: <ldsig@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 8:29 PM
Subject: [ldsig] Re: Coalport Layout & Docksider Follow-up


>
>
> Appreciate the responses to my questions. Still looking for testimonial
> on how the available Docksiders run.
>
> Some folks mentioned moving up scale, which I have actually considered,
> but "DESIGNING TO COST" is the challenge with that.
> I also don't think that the B&O had narrow gauge Docksiders, so On30 is
> out for me.
> S Scale is very tempting since I have kids that like to operate the
> layout with me (have a small switching layout right now).
> HOWEVER, I have a challenge for the S Scalers out there - - could I get
> the following completed with $500?
> -benchwork, using plywood box construction (ala Dave Barrow's Dominos)
> or possibly a commercial wall shell track system as a base.
> -Lay track and wiring for an operationally interesting layout
> -Purchase enough rolling stock to get me started, to include one loco
> (two would be better!)
> -Layout theme could be:
> ---modern Texas New Mexico RR (GP-7/16s/38, hauling aggregates/chemicals
> for oil drilling industries)
> ---B&O pier/wharf operations in 1940s
> ---urban switching, any prototype
> ---small staging, cassete or sector table is fine
> Maximum space will be around 10 x 12, but I don't necessarily WANT to
> use all of the space. Scenery and buildings would come later.
> My web surfing didn't indicate that this was feasible in S Scale.....
>
> Finally, Ed Brommer of the B&ORRHS graciously provided photos of the
> sole B&O 0-6-0 saddle tanker, which operated in the NY area. I'm
> thinking real hard about "transferring" her down to Md for this layout
> and do some basic kitbashing on the cab to match the prototype.
> (Unless I hear some good news about the 0-4-0s.)
>
> Respectfully,
> Dave Frederick
> Seoul, Korea
>
> Unsubscribe: ldsig-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Moderator: ldsig-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16973 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Timonium Show
This morning I caught part of the Baltimore News on station WJZ. They were at the Timonium Show and talking about the up and coming 1/64th scale trains while the camera was on the sharp looking S-Helper Service Trains.

Their next segment was on HO.


Jim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16974 From: Victor Bereskin Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1299
Actually, the screws in Erector were 6-32. 2-56 screws are so small that
you almost need a magifying glass to see them and are definitely undersized
for young children.

Vic Bereskin

----- Original Message -----
From: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 11:27 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1299


>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:59:24 -0600
> From: "Marty.Thorin" <Thorin.Marty@...>
> Subject: 2 choices
>
> Dear Nick:
> Did you know Lionel had an erector set? (Before you jump all over
> me, note I used 'lower case' rather than 'Erector Set' which is ACG.)
>
> This was/is a nice toy. It was/is easier to build with and models go
> together faster. But they can not be powered and run forever the way an
> Erector Set can be.
> Why? ACG (A. C. Gilbert) used screws and nuts. (2-56. Buy them by
> the pound at the hardware store.)
> Lionel used rivets for the screws and rubber washers as the 'nuts'.
> The rivets have round heads and smooth shafts. (Think of a 2-56 screw
> without threads or screwdriver slot.) The rubber washers are black, about
> an 1/8 of an inch thick, and the hole is a little smaller than the rivet's
> shaft.
> So after a while the pounding of the motor works the rubber 'nuts'
> work off the rivets. The results can be dramatic!
> I had many hours of enjoyment from this set as a youth. I even
> built a working lathe that I reshaped Styrofoam balls on.
>
> I think my mother still has this set. I have never had it and an ACG set
> out at the same time so I don't know if they could work together.
>
> Thorin
Group: S-Trains Message: 16975 From: erielackawanna76 Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Train detector
I've just designed a new current detector that can be used with
American Flyer trains. (It can be used with AC, DC or DCC control).
I make them at home for $19.95 plus postage. If anyone is interested,
e-mail me at mariancat@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 16976 From: Steve Blancard Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Timonium - after action report
I took my sons and their friend to Timonium yesterday, this was our
first real train show. Wow, what a great show. It was really
overhelming. We of course went to the tin plate side right away to see
what we could find for S gauge and Flyer. There were 4 or 5 vendors set
up selling a nice assortment of Flyer goodies. Since we are building
our first train table with ACG equipment we needed a lot of little
things, most of which we found. I also found a nice girder bridge on
the white elephant table for a bargain price. S-Helper had a great
display too. They really have some nice stuff. Although I didn't get
their names, we also met several other very nice Flyer people who gave
us advice and encouragement. The only thing we had hoped to see but
didn't, was a running ACG layout with working accessories. I had hoped
to show my boys some of the working accessories and give them ideas for
our layout. Perhaps at another show.

One other thing we enjoyed was a showing of a Buster Keaton silent film
about the great Civil War train chase (the General and the Texas). This
was really a treat, we laughed until our sides hurt. The narrator said
that they used the actual, original locomotives in the film. This era
is my favorite and it was wonderful to see this beautiful old iron in
action. The only unsettling part was when another loco (not the General
or Texas) crashed through a burning bridge into a river. This was real,
no scale models used in the film :-(

Sorry I didn't get names of the nice folks I talked to, but if you
talked to a big guy with a beard with 1-3 teenagers in tow, that was
probably me.

Steve Blancard
Fredericksburg, Virginia
Group: S-Trains Message: 16977 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Re: Bulb info.......
Actually the 18V bulbs will run cooler than 14V at the same voltage.
You should notice they're dimmer and "redder" in color at the same
voltage. If that is a Flyer billboard there is nothing to worry about.

yazfacts wrote:
>
> Dear Group,
> I have the R.B. & B.B.Circus Billboard that lights up.The
> two bulbs in there blew out. They were 14V bulbs.I replaced them with
> two 18V bulbs.Does anyone out ther think this will cause any damage
> to my billboard ?? Please post any all answers, or e-mail me directly
> at yazfacts@... Thanks....Bob S.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 16978 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Animation
Hi all,

I am interested in adding some animations to my layout. Do any of
you know any suppliers of the various motors, gears, shafts, etc.
that are required for building animated scenes? Are there any good
books you would recommend?

If you want to see some nice O gauge animations, check out
www.spikesland.com. The site has over 140 pictures of a large
layout. Most of the pictures have automatic links to mpeg movies of
the animations. Each mpeg is about 1.5 meg, so if you're not on a
high speed connection it can take a while to view them. They load
almost instantly on my cable connection.

Thanks for any help!

BG1
Group: S-Trains Message: 16979 From: plotnick Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Japanese S-Gauge
I have two different battery owered Japanese "S-gauge" sets:
1. one is the Continental Flyer steam set. It apperently smoked if you put
"sewing machine oil in." I have seen several versions of this set on e-bay.
2. The other is a tinplate set, pulled by a B&O diesel. Cars include a tank
car, log carrier, box car, hopper and caboose. The box is red, with a greatr
graphic on the front. No manufacturer is indicated, and it says it is
"standard gauge." There was a bridge and a semaphore. I have a complete set,
and a number of extra items. This set appears on e-bay fairly often. There
was also a passenger set, which I've only seen once on e-bay (Im was outbid),
which I recall was in UP yellow. I can dig up some images if folks want them.
-Roy Plotnick

Roy E. Plotnick
Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences
University of Illinois at Chicago
845 W. Taylor St.
Chicago, Il .60607
phone: 312-996-2111 630-252-6377(May-August)
e-mail: plotnick@...
homepage: http://www.uic.edu/depts/geos/people/faculty/plotnick.html

"Those who do not know the literature are condemned to repeat it."
Group: S-Trains Message: 16980 From: pdng@aol.com Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1303
Hi guys, I also am a Flyer fan and Ham radio op.

DE Paul N3PP
Group: S-Trains Message: 16981 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: japanese s gauge
These sets included two rail S gauge track. They ran wonderfully on Flyer
track.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 16982 From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Re: Japanese S-Gauge
I think the second set Roy PLotnick describes (B&O diesel, tank car, log
carrier, red box car, hopper and caboose, described as standard gauge, no
manufacturer indicated) is the Sakai set carried by Sears Canada.
Joe Pereira

email: sigma@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 16983 From: trzp1800 Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Re: Timonium - after action report
--- In S-Trains@y..., Steve Blancard <splitdorf@1...> wrote:
> I took my sons and their friend to Timonium yesterday, this was our
> first real train show. Wow, what a great show. It was really....

> Steve Blancard
> Fredericksburg, Virginia

Dear Steve:
Contact the Atlantic Coast S-Gaugers. There's chapters in Richmond,
Tidewater and the DC area. They just had a display at the January
GATS show in Va. Beach. If they're like our chapter here in the
carolinas they will be at 4-6 events this year. You can hit the
website at http://sgauge.homestead.com/ACSGindex.html.

Have fun with the trains. My son and i are taking my modules up to
Winston-Salem for the 2/9 GATS show there.

Regards,
Ted
Group: S-Trains Message: 16984 From: Neimanis,V. [NCR] Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Controller Box Question
What is the accessory in question - my literature does not have a #K775
loader. Is it a box loader?

A few accessories do use 4 wires such as semaphores. The animated station
dispenses with 2 wires if it is used on a layout.

A bit more information please. May as well post on the list so all will be
informed.

V.Neimanis

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 15:49:05 -0000
From: "yazfacts" <YAZFACTS@...>
Subject: Controller Box Question......

Dear Group,
I recently bought the K775 Loader and it came with the 974
Operating Box Car.The controller for the operaring box car has four
wires that are solder to it.All my other American Flyer controllers
just use two wires.Does anyone out ther know how to wire this
controller up so that I can activate the operating 974 box car ??
Please post any and all answers , or e-mail me directly
yazfacts@... Thanks as always.......Bob S.



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Group: S-Trains Message: 16985 From: Donald P. Abrams Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: spike in Atlantics' prices
I really liked the bent in pilot as well. Wish all my 4 pc. Atlantics had
that! NOT!
Don

>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 22:39:04 -0500
> From: "Scott Brown" <sbrown56@...>
> Subject: 302 prices
>
> Everbody start digging out your old Atlantic 302s. They are apparently THE
engine to sell right now. I'm watching them go for between $120 and $140 and
that is for the used with some rub marks type, NOT the LN with original
wrapper type. I'm puzzled as heck, but it seems they are in demand right now
and can get the price. Each engine seems to be popular for a season and the
price shoots up, then falls back down to realistic pricing again when the
next engine takes it's place. From hobby stores to ebay(
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1694269082 I'm
seeing 302's getting big bucks. SELL SELL SELL !!!
>
> Scott Brown
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 16986 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: chat
I may not be on chat tonight -- my son crashed his computer big time.
Maybe I can try from another one. Last week I was in Boston. Sorry - I'd
really like to be there to try the new venue.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 16987 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Fwd: (no subject)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16988 From: plotnick Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: 24 Gauge wire
I'm sure this has posted before, but what are some sources of 24 gauge magnet
wire for rewinding fields? The Radio Shack near me sells a set of 3 wires,
but none are 24 gauge.

BTW - despite the appearance of the last post, I can indeed spell. I just get
lazy and don't proofread! -Roy Plotnick

Roy E. Plotnick
Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences
University of Illinois at Chicago
845 W. Taylor St.
Chicago, Il .60607
phone: 312-996-2111 630-252-6377(May-August)
e-mail: plotnick@...
homepage: http://www.uic.edu/depts/geos/people/faculty/plotnick.html

"Those who do not know the literature are condemned to repeat it."
Group: S-Trains Message: 16989 From: TED R LARSON Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Divco
Ron Inscho sent me info about a Divco truck.
Unfortunately, the website calls it a 1:64 "O" scale truck.
Has anybody bought this one? What scale is it really, S or O?

> http://www.divco.org/Diecast1.htm
> Road Champs�: 1:64 1950 Divco Snub Nose Model 13.
> "O" Scale delivery truck.

Ted Larson
When climbing the ladder of success,
make sure you know which building it is leaning on!

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16990 From: dwightlehnhoff Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: engine/motor noise
Or is the gear on the axel or the smoke gear adding to the noise. Is
it normal for the smoke piston gear to ride loose on the pin?

Dwight
Group: S-Trains Message: 16991 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Re: Controller Box Question......
Yaz: what you may have there is a control button that was made so it could
be used with DC track power such as an AF rectiformer. Are there two
yellow wires and two black wires? You can connect the two yellow wires
together and connect the two black wires together. Then connect one pair
to the fixed voltage post and the other to the action car rail.

You actually only need 2 of the wires. If they are not black and yellow,
just figure out by trial and error which 2 work.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 16992 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 1/27/2002
Subject: Chassis, drive gear installation
Greetings, reinstalling the wheels and gear after a chassis rebushing of my
360. Remembered to make notes on everything except the location of the gear
on the shaft and which side of the gear goes which way - there seems to be a
"square" hole on one side of the gear and a round hole on the other side.
Thanks for the help!
Best wishes, Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 16993 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: 770 Paper Trestles - Success!!
Thanks to all of you on this list who have assisted me
with my search for the illusive 770 Paper Trestle set.
I have found one! As soon as I complete the
installation on my layout, I will post photos.
regards Michael Christensen

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 16994 From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: [AD] Newest B.T.S. Kits Now Shipping
Howdy Friends

In addition to all the freight car upgrade parts recently released
(listed at http://www.btsrr.com/btsdet01.htm), we have started shipping
the following new S scale kits.

------------------------------------------------------

NKP Green Springs Depot

West of Bellevue, Ohio stands Green Springs Junction. Until around 1972,
the NKP used this station. Over the years, the original depot was
modified with large doors in the baggage room. The one on the front of
the depot provided covered storage for a handcar.

This new kit consists of laser-cut basswood, plywood, and cardstock,
self-adhesive shingles, detail castings, and loads of character. It was
based upon a Nickel Plate Road prototype. The doors are positionable,
and floor and interior partitions are included. The tabbed,
well-engineered construction provides fast and easy assembly. The
footprint is about 26' x 52'.

S Scale #07162 $89.95 http://www.btsrr.com/bts7162.htm

------------------------------------------------------

McCabe Sawdust Shed

At the Coon Gap Sawmill, fine sawdust is created by the bandsaw blade,
and lots of sawdust is created by the planers and other tools in the
planing shed. That sawdust is stored in this shed until it is sold.

This new kit consists of laser-cut basswood, plywood, and cardstock,
tarpaper roofing, detail castings, and loads of character. The tabbed,
well-engineered construction provides fast and easy assembly. The
footprint is about 23' x 28'. HO model is shown on the web page; some
minor details may vary between scales.

S Scale #08220 $79.95 http://www.btsrr.com/bts8220.htm

-----------------------------------------------------

Next one to be shipped will be the New River Yard Two-Stall Enginehouse.
This beast will house two locos up to 95 scale feet long. Included is
the interior floor, roof trusses, columns and beam, positionable doors
and windows, removable roof, detailed clerestory venting, workbenches,
and scribing on the interior walls. Shipping is scheduled for March.

This will be a very limited edition.

S Scale #07115 $189.95 Photos will be posted in the very near
future.



Thanks for your support!

Bill
--
============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================
Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer
Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-643-1105 FAX: 813-681-7326
B.T.S. http://www.btsrr.com
S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com
Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 16995 From: Horn, David Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: 283 performance and noise
Tom,

The thing I've found most effective to get a stubborn AF steam engine (small
or super, flat or barrel commutator) running it's best when all else has
failed is a new old-stock (never run before) armature, fresh brushes and
brush springs. Those in combination with the cleaning, etc. assumed to have
already been tried usually light one up like new. I'm convinced the key is
the interface between the brushes and commutators, and to some degree worm
gear wear. However, mostly the brush-comm interface. One measure that
helps with some engines before going to a NOS armature is to mess with
"refacing" the comms and different spring brush combinations. Some respond
well for awhile, others are too far gone (although you can't really see
anything wrong). By the way, I've found a general rule of thumb on play to
be use the right combination of thrust washers until you can move the
armature backward and forward just shy of one field plate thickness. For
some it takes one .020" washer up front, others it's that plus a .010"
washer, but in any case always start with .050" washer on the back end.

The bushing wear is a great question. I've wondered how do you tell it's
time to replace the fwd or aft armature bearing?

Better yet, your question about ball bearings! Why haven't we any ball
bearings for our ACG AF diesel and/or steamer engines? Is it because of the
serrated axle ends - - you'd have to buy a bb with an ID large enough to
accept the serrations, but then it'd be too sloppy to run (on the plain
sections of each axle)? When I raced slot cars, there was a time when
nothing beat a Pittman Ball Bearing can motor in a car with ball bearing
axle-holes. I can't help but think all our ACG gear would run better and
last longer with bb's.

Noise is a tough one. The mesh of the gears, the wear of bushings
everywhere, and the fundamental design of the motor and power train
contribute to this. Obviously having all that clean, well, lubed and to
factory tolerances helps, but one other contributor is the interface between
the chassis and the shell. With Franklins and some of the late super
barrel-comm motored Hudson/Northerns, I've noticed you can significantly
reduce their noise by how you insulate the shell from the chassis. On a
Franklin, for example, a relatively thin soft rubbery ring between the motor
mount and the cab roof, can dampen a lot of noise otherwise conveyed by the
shell. I remember reading somewhere that it might work best to mount a
sound system's speaker up against the shell of a box car or b-unit rather
than simply inside it, because if done properly the whole shell can be used
to emanate sound outward. By keeping that in mind, but working from the
opposite perspective, I've had some success in reducing engine noise.

As always, let us know what you discover. Thanks.

Dave
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
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contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16996 From: David Dewey Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Re: Die Cast?
Yes to both questions Mike. The casting is metal, and the die is too. Of
course, if the casting metal doesn't melt at a temperature lower than the
die, you only get one casting out of it! ;-)
Die casting allows very fine detailing and tight tolerances compared to
sand casting. Sometimes the die can be adapted to plastic injection molding,
which I think is what happened to the Atlantic body shell.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16997 From: Horn, David Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: 302's
302's and 302AC's are great little engines, but shouldn't cost you $100. If
I remember correctly there are several variations of the 302 - - one piece
die cast metal shell, one piece plastic shell, 4-piece die cast shell with a
screw on the end of the valve gear guides to hold that securely to the
shell, and 4-piece die cast without that handy little screw. From my
experience, the one piece die cast, and 4-piece die cast with screw are the
most desirable. All 302's lack pulmor, but frankly I like having and
running some engines with only steel rims. They may not pull as much, but
they run very smoothly and have some great steamer wheel-spin. Anyway, the
weight from a metal die cast body helps with traction. The 4-piece die cast
units look super (handrails, more detailed linkage, etc.), but the version
with the "extra" screw to hold the valve gear in place is more reliable than
without it. The 4-piece unit on eBay was clean and had the screw. I would
have said $75 tops for the unit that was auctioned, but you can find them at
meets (York) for $50, at least you used to.

PS One other variation can be a plastic or sheet metal tender shell. As
was many times the case, ACG apparently used either depending on which was
lying around with an order to be filled. I have one with a plastic tender
and LC. At first I wasn't sure I liked it, but grew to prefer over sheet
metal because it goes well with the additional realism of the handrails,
etc. on the engine.
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 16998 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Indy Train Show
Hi all,
Just a quick report on the Indy GATS. We had the only S-Gauge display there
this weekend. It was an extremely big show from most that I have been to.
Held in 2 buildings. A total of 10 running displays.Mostly O-scale and
Lionel. 2 N-gauge and 1 HO gauge. Our layout came in 3rd place in the
contest. I ended up selling a couple of my personal S-Helper cars right off
the layout.
I also met a couple of guys on the list. That is always a treat. My wife was
very sick this weekend and I was a little worried about her. She hung right
in there with me though.
Met quite a few closet S-gaugers. Hopefully seeing an 4X8 layout with
everything we have on it, they will be getting those trains out .
also a lot of interest shown in the S-Spree in May. Hopefully everyone will
be sending in there reservations and orders for the club car. The Beautiful
Kahn's car made By S-Helper Service.To see a picture go to
http://www.mvsg.freehomepage.com/ or <A HREF="http://www.mvsg.freehomepage.com/">Click here: Miami Valley S Gaugers</A> .
You can also see the picture at http://www.showcaseline.com/ listed under the
heading of Special cars. There is ordering info at both sites. If you go to
the Miami Valley S-Gaugers website, there are some pop up adds, I apologize
in advance for those. But you can download a registration form right off that
site.
We are doing the Louiville show this coming weekend. Hope to see some list
members there too!!!
Never take life seriously.
Nobody gets out alive anyway.

THE TRAINNUT
CHRIS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 16999 From: joelgerlach Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: re 24 gauge magnet wire
one source for the wire is http://www.elexp.com/cbl_mg30.htm they sell it in 800' rolls for $10.00 There is a $20 minimum order however.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17000 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Re: SHS Warehouse Warming?
Craig O'Connell wrote:

> Hi Don,
> George Leidinger, a member of my club, told me that SHS is having a
> "open house" in early March. Can you provide any details for the CSG
> newsletter please?
> Thanks,
> Craig

Dear Craig,
I guess Robin thinks of it more as a house (maybe warehouse) warming
for our new facility that we moved into this fall. She has set it for
the first weekend in March. We will have our layout running,
refreshments and of course her famous "scratch and dent" sale. It is
also a chance to purchase parts that are now at ground level. The dates
and times are:

Friday March 1st, 11 AM to 7 PM
Saturday March 2nd 10 AM to 5 PM
Sunday March 3rd 11 AM to 4 PM.

I will be asking Jon our webmaster to post this on our web site.
Thank you for asking and looking forward to seeing you this weekend, at
Springfield,
Don


Craig O'Connell wrote:

> Hi Don,
>
> George Leidinger, a member of my club, told me that SHS is having a
> "open house" in early March. Can you provide any details for the
> CSG newsletter please?
>
> Thanks,
> Craig

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 17001 From: tomsmitty2001 Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: motor noises
The question was posed how one determines that motor bearings are
worn. I had a 290 that was noisy, and disassembly showed that the
armature wiggled all over. I removed the old bearings and turned out
new ones on a small lathe. The four projections don't need to be
reproduced if you use a Loc-Tite or equivalent bearing retaining
compound ( and other than making them as original, sintered, I don't
know how you'd include the projections ). You are very correct in
stating that a lot of the noise is due to worn and out of true
comutator segments. There was a lengthy thread about two months ago
on truing the face of the segments, and otherwise worn armatures can
often be resurrected by a very light cut across the face followed by
a polishing with something like a 280 or 320 grit sandpaper. But to
get back to your original question, remove the brush-holder / cap and
leave the armature in the forward bearing hole. If you can detect
much more than about 0.010" or 0.015" ( a human hair is around
0.005" ) at the aft end, you could probably benefit in replacing your
bearings, both of them. My theory is that if there's "wiggle room"
for the armature shaft, the whole thing can jump around during
operation, and if it moves, it's making unwanted noise.

As far as ball-bearings, I doubt if you'd be able to find a bearing
that has both the proper i.d and o.d., and you'd end up having to
bore out the motor's frame and the end cap. I've had very good
success with using the Oil-Lite bronze bearing stock, and that
combined with facing the commutator leaves a super-quiet running
motor.

If you wanted to install ball-bearings on the axles, you might have
better success finding the appropriate size, I would venture to guess
that taking the axles completely out of the locomotive and turning
them down to remove the splines would allow you to use the ball
bearings. Again, the use of a Loc-Tite type product to hold the
drive wheels in place, I think, would work just fine.

As far as noise be contributed by the drive gear for the smoke unit,
I would think the load is so light as to be pretty negligible, and
yes, the ones I can remember seeing the gear is loose on the stud.

Regard"S",

Smitty
Group: S-Trains Message: 17002 From: richgajnak Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: "S" in March CTT
The March 2002 Classic Toy Trains is out.

Big article on the "Cincinnati in Motion" layout at the Cincinnati
Museum Center.

Also, a favorable review of the American Models Budd cars.

Be seeing you,
Rich G.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17003 From: Ken Kinyon - W7TS Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1303
And me,
I have had AF trains since 1950 and been a Ham since 1958.
Maybe we should start a American Flyer net.
73,
Ken W7TS

-------------------
Kenneth E. Kinyon
34 Princeton Circle
Longmont, CO 80503-2106
Voice/fax (303) 684-0037
E-mail: W7TS@...
W7TS@...
W7TS@...
ALPCA #8339
ARRL-LM
-------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: pdng@... [mailto:pdng@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 11:04
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1303


Hi guys, I also am a Flyer fan and Ham radio op.

DE Paul N3PP

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Group: S-Trains Message: 17004 From: Paul Yorke Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Chat Problems - Back to the Club
Sorry about the trouble with chat last night.

We will be returning to our usual chat room next week.
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Please bookmark it, visit it, try it out.

Thanks to all the regular 'Chatters', and welcome to our new folks.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17005 From: gino restivo Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: re; rectiformer tube cages ?
hi all , hope your holidays were good

their was a few inquires about the tube
guards for the rectiformer 's some time
back if anyone is interested in some
repro's please e-mail me off list , i will
make a limited amout of them to cover
the need .....no dealers please

thank you , GSR


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17006 From: Linda & Ted Weiler Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Fw: VIRUS ALERT: New Virus called "WORM_MYPARTY.A"
This was forwarded to me from my brother who works at Chase Bank.

Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: <George.Weiler@...>
To: <tjweiler@...>; <ted.weiler>; <bigguy11763@...>
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 9:49 AM
Subject: VIRUS ALERT: New Virus called "WORM_MYPARTY.A"


> VIRUS ALERT
> A New Virus called "WORM_MYPARTY.A" has been identified
>
> It is delivered by e-mail, with various subject field texts. To date
> "Hallo" and "New Photos from my Party" have been seen. The e-mail
> attachment is called "www.myparty.yahoo.com" - IMPORTANT, this is a file
> name, not an internet address
>
> The attachment must not be detached or launched.
>
> If you receive an e-mail with any of the above characteristics, please
> delete it immediately.
>
> If you feel that your system may have been infected, please contact your
> local Help Desk.
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17007 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Am brand new to the list, but have had Flyer since 1950. I purchased a
toolcar from Central NY S Gaugers many years ago and have never seen another
even at York. It's basically a boxcar body with two small windows on each
side. Painted a dark gray with black lettering. Was wondering if anyone could
shed more light on this car. Also does anyone have a source for re-creating
lightening? Where I live in Fla we are known as the thunderstorm capitol of
the US, so why not have it on the layout. Thanks in advance. Ed
Group: S-Trains Message: 17008 From: yazfacts Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Thanks.........
Dear Group,
I thank you very much for the info on my bulb and
controller questions.Everytime I have a problem there is always,
ALWAYS someone there to help me.What a great group of people.Thanks
again........Bob S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17009 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1303
Chuck Harrington - WA8LBH here

Ken Kinyon - W7TS wrote:

>And me,
>I have had AF trains since 1950 and been a Ham since 1958.
>Maybe we should start a American Flyer net.
>73,
>Ken W7TS
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17010 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Re: Die Cast?
David Dewey, da Die-cast Duck, declares:
>Sometimes the die can be adapted to plastic injection molding,
>which I think is what happened to the Atlantic body shell.

I don't think so! The two aren't even close. I think the plastic shell is
a complete retooling.
Is there anybody out there with any substantive information, keeping old Mar
twain's axiom in mind? :<0
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17011 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Lightning (was "no subject")
There is a company that makes lightning units for movies. These are
essentially long tube strobes with a controller that allows repeated
discharges in a lightning-like random effect. Units come small and large
for use in smaller, intimate sets or out on the street hanging from cranes.
You should be able to get by with one small lighthead. It might cost a few
bucks more than you want to spend, but check it out anyway.

The company is called "Lightning Strikes". Reach them at 1(800) 321-3644.

http://www.lightningstrikes.com/

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17012 From: bob_massie Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Testing...and a few questions
Hello:

I've just joined this group. I have some experience with S scale,
but haven't been involved in it for a while--maybe a good ten years
or so.

I am considering re-entering S, but wanted to know a few basic things
before I decide which way to go.

First, I have the AF MOPAC set from 1991 with the Railsounds PB and
extra dome and coach (I don't have the dining car), and wanted to
know if it would be better for me to get a dining car and then use
this never-run, new-in-box (plus two minor non-cosmetic, easily un-
doable modifications) set or sell it to a collector and use the
proceeds to purchase AM and/or SHS equipment. I don't really like
the AF dome cars--they really need the dome window frames painted
silver and an interior in the dome. I can live with the fact that
the car sides are still "standard coach" sides. I would also like to
put diaphragms on the passenger cars if I were to keep it and use it
as my primary train, but, again, I don't want to ruin a collectible
that someone else might cherish when I'd be equally satisfied to run
AM or SHS equipment. So--sell it or go with it?

Next, I have still got some old Code .100 track. I am strongly
considering hi-rail this time, and know that this won't work
with .100 rail. It may become the basis for a small, separate
switching section or model of some abandoned trackage. I do have
some unused AM .148 track and switches left over from when I thought
I'd be adding the MOPAC set to my old layout. Here's the question:
what track should I use this time around for a hi-rail layout?
GarGraves? AM .148? SHS .125? A mixture for visible and invisible
trackage?

Lastly--at least for the moment--should I go with AC or DC? If I
stick with the Flyer, AC will be the way to go so the sound system
works, but what if I go with AM or SHS? Ron Bashista (hope I got
that right) was kind enough to e-mail me that the sound systems in
the AM E-8 or F-7B work with AC, so AC's still a possibility even if
I sell the AF set and go with AM or SHS. I used DC last time, but
sold all of it--well, at least I gave it to someone to sell...I still
haven't seen a dime from it. I'll work that issue later.

I'd sure appreciate any help you can give me. I can be reached at
Robert.Massie@... or bob_massie@... .

Thanks!
Bob M.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17013 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Re: Mel's Diner
Thanks to those of you that helped me with the wiring, but the carhops
still hang up. The unit sounds like it is going to explode when it
catches. Has anyone had problems with this accessory & found a solution?

Mike Leahy (Boulder, CO.)

P.S. I have tried emailing MTH, but have not heard back from them. Do
they have any service techs you can actually talk to?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17014 From: train1010 Date: 1/28/2002
Subject: Testing
Just got an update from Classic Trains new track. AMERICAN S GAUGE
waiting for the new switches. view the product at
http://trainweb.com/crocon/strack.html ASG Code 172. this is the
best I've ever used. Reggie Lamanda Park Santa Fe Torrance, Ca
Group: S-Trains Message: 17015 From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re: Mel's Diner
I noticed this problem also. I changed out power supplies, the one I
originally used (American Flyer) didn't have enough power.

-----Original Message-----
From: LEAHY RUTH A [mailto:ruth.leahy@...]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 11:04 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Mel's Diner


Thanks to those of you that helped me with the wiring, but the carhops
still hang up. The unit sounds like it is going to explode when it
catches. Has anyone had problems with this accessory & found a solution?

Mike Leahy (Boulder, CO.)

P.S. I have tried emailing MTH, but have not heard back from them. Do
they have any service techs you can actually talk to?




S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17016 From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: SD60 Hi-Rail with KDs
YO;

I purchased a pair of AM SD60s (hi-rail). I run hi-rail with KDs. When I
installed the KDs on the SD60 and MUed them together the couplers had the
engines too close together and could not make the curves.

Anyone experience this?

Any suggestions?

Do the Scale guys have the same problem?

Tommy
Group: S-Trains Message: 17017 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re: 24 Gauge wire
--- plotnick <plotnick@...> wrote:
> I'm sure this has posted before, but what are some sources of 24
> gauge magnet wire for rewinding fields? The Radio Shack near me
sells a set of 3 wires, but none are 24 gauge.

Antique Electronic Supply has small spools of magnet wire, including 24
gauge. They even have nichrome wire.

http://www.tubesandmore.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17018 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: True Tinplate in S (Was Japanese S-Gauge)
Dear Joe and Tom:
True tinplate in S... Maybe an NYC electric?

I have seen the American Flyer "President's Special" in standard gauge. I
have always wanted the loco in S. Did the Japanese produce such?

------ Technical details ----
This is the classic O gauge and standard gauge electric from the 1920s. My
memory of the "President's Special" has four wheel lead and trailing trucks
and the four wheels of the 4-4-2 steamer in the middle, sans side rods.
Thus it is a 4-4-4 (or 2-B-2). It has an interesting metal coupler that, on
a gross level, resembles the AF link coupler. It has two bare bulbs
sticking out of sockets shaped like headlights.
If I had the time and the skills, I would use an AF Atlantic
mechanism as the starting point.

Thorin


--- Original Message ---
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 12:35:46 -0700 (MST)
From: sigma@...
Subject: Re: Japanese S-Gauge

I think the second set Roy PLotnick describes (B&O diesel, tank car, log
carrier, red box car, hopper and caboose, described as standard gauge, no
manufacturer indicated) is the Sakai set carried by Sears Canada.
Joe Pereira

email: sigma@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17019 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re: Testing...and a few questions
Bob Massie put forth a few good, and tough, questions:
>I am considering re-entering S, but wanted to know a few basic things
>before I decide which way to go. First, I have the AF MOPAC set . . .
>sell it or go with it? What track should I use this time around for a
hi-rail layout?
>GarGraves? AM .148? SHS .125? A mixture? Lastly, should I go with AC or
DC?

You are at an interesting crossroads, Bob. Presuming that you have no other
Flyer other than the MoPac set, you certainly can make the decision now to
abandon all Flyer, sell this set and raise money for the more scale like AM
and SHS. I agree with you about the vista-domes. They should have frames,
the side windows should reflect the dome structure of the car and there
should be a visible interior. But wait, there's more. The domes should
reach to the edge of the car; & not be a narrow, centered dome. They also
should be off center on the length of the car. The PA locomotives don't
have the correct prototypical hood contour. The sound system plays a
generic diesel motor sound, not the correct whiny Alco noises. The trucks
are wrong. The couplers are huge. The engines run on four wheels per bogie
instead of 6. The cars are too far apart for diphragms. They are coupled
on their trucks instead of their bodies. The lengths of the cars are
truncated. Many door and ladder details and window placements are not true.
The passenger sillhouettes are silly representations.

It's a toy.

Welcome to the world of toy trains. I have the MoPac set. It runs great.
The railsounds is terrific. It recaptures the best moments of my childhood
when I lay on the floor and wait for it to fly past my head, all lit up.
Flyer passenger sets represent the best of an era of toy S gauge trains that
were so realistic they captured our fancy and held it forever.

If they don't appeal to you, that's alright. You've got choices.

AM and SHS are making diesels that are very well scaled and detailed. There
are none better. The sound systems work in AC and DCC, but not in DC. DC
only engines won't even have a sound card installed. AM's Alco PA's are
correctly contoured. Their Budd car sets are stunning and accurately
detailed, with interiors. There are no dome cars at all. You can get them
with scale couplers and hi-rail wheels for close diaphragm action. The
diaphragms are already installed. The car length is still truncated to
negotiate Flyer curves. Flyer set the tone in this gauge. For hi-rail, you
have got to love SHS road-bedded rail and the new superflexible matching
flex curves. AM smooth-sided streamliners can still be found. There is a
correct dome in these sets. AM/SHS heavyweights are still available,
including older ones without sillhouettes. Of course, the freight car
selection is unbelievable.

You can put together an S-gauge hi-rail empire of incredible diversity,
including steam, and not use one Flyer piece. That's a statement that could
not be made until recently.

If I were starting with a clean slate, I would eschew Flyer and Gargraves
track. I would pick one system, probably SHS (.148), and stick with it. I
would go directly to DCC without bothering with AC or DC. This gets you
into modern, flexible train control and avoids all the pitfalls of reverse
units and compatibility problems from one manufacturer to another. As to
your existing bits of track; write them off. Use them as display track, or
as part of the scenery. Your idea of abandoned spur trackage is perfect.
Nothing makes the high line look so good as a visual comparison with the low
line.

Sell the MoPac set on E-Bay. Set a reserve at the minimum you are willing
to accept. Set the starting bid at $10. Watch it go.

Any help you need with this stuff can be found right here. If we don't
know, we can refer you. Don Thompson (SHS) and Ron Bashista (AM) are both
on this list, so your questions will always have answers. There will be
quite a few responses today, in fact! These opinions are just mine.

Welcome aboard!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17020 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re: Testing...and a few questions
Error on what I said: I typed SHS (.148). I meant SHS (.125). AM is Code
148.

Also Bob, if you want some really high rail, the American S-Gauge track is
Code 172. It plugs into Flyer rail and has new switches and works with all
Flyer track accessories. If you have no Flyer, then these are not
advantages.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17021 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re: Testing...and a few questions
In a message dated 1/29/02 9:44:44 AM Eastern Standard Time,
busyboy@... writes:

<< You can put together an S-gauge hi-rail empire of incredible diversity,
including steam, and not use one Flyer piece. >>

Chris, agree with everything you said, except this. A steam engine lover
yearning for some variety is going to feel really deprived. This may be a
principal reason to retain some sort of Gilbert compatibility -- most steam
out there, except for a limited amount of expensive brass and a few other
odds-n-ends (the few AMs) is still good ol' Gilbert.

RB

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 17022 From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: How it started
Here's my story.

I received my first train set in 1953 at age 7, an American Flyer 5311T
(The Black Diamond). This lasted until I burned out the transformer and
the trains disappeared probably to the dump. In between trains I was
given an Erector set and played with this endlessly. I enjoyed building
and rebuilding all the items in the booklet. In 1957 I got some Revell
HO and added to my empire with many other train kits and matchbox toys.
I also received at Gilbert Physics set and Chemistry set. I guess my
parents wanted me to try all the various fields to expand my knowledge.
I enjoyed all these Gilbert toys and remember them fondly.

In my High School days interest in trains and other such things turned to
more important projects such girls & cars etc. I sold my HO empire 1963
to by a CB set. I did a stint in the USAF and when was discharged I got a
job with phone company ( still with them 35 + years ).

My next AF train set came in 1989 when a childhood friend asked me if I
wanted his trains. I remember the great time I had with my first Flyer
set and also playing with his trains so I said yes and it hasn't stopped
since. I guess I can blame my friend for the madness he rekindled in me.
It has been rebirth of my childhood and one that I try to share with two
6 1/2 year old grandson's, and I plan to include my one year
granddaughter as well.

In 2000 at age 54 I received a Associates Degree in Applied Science in
Telecommunications Technology.

And that's all I can say about that.

73's AL N1PIC
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17023 From: bob_massie Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: My questions--some clarification
I appreciate the feedback I'm getting regarding my questions.
Perhaps I need to clarify where I'm going:

My modeling interest is in the 1965-1980 timeframe. The Phase II
Superliners are about as new as I would want to go and the MOPAC set
I've got is about as old as I want to go. AM's BN FP7-F7B or an
undec set painted for (please don't gag) PC interests me as do AM's
IC E-8 and matching its passenger cars and the SHS ICG set. (Correct
me if I'm wrong, but all the ICRR stuff I remember passing through
town when I was a kid was smooth-sided or standard heavyweights in
chocolate and orange. I can live with Budd cars, though!)

The Flyer MOPAC set and a moth-eaten, beat-up, one-motor-removed
Santa Fe PA from the '50s that I got when I was 7 are all the S I
have save two unbuilt Amtrak AM smoothsides and the track I mentioned.

And, FWIW, I don't like dome cars--too many railroads didn't own them
and 98% of the trains I saw didn't have them.

Thanks,
Bob Massie
Robert.Massie@... or bob_massie@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 17024 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: (no subject)
"You can put together an S-gauge hi-rail empire of incredible diversity,
including steam, and not use one Flyer piece. >>by CZ

"A steam engine lover
yearning for some variety is going to feel really deprived.This may be a
principal reason to retain some sort of Gilbert compatibility "by RB


Hard to do in "S" without the flyer is something I agree with. BUT! Take an
old flyer unit in good condition, replace with a DC can motor with flywheel
for 27.95 and a DCC decoder (may need a more stuff for this) and run the old
steamers with the new ones.
I'm starting to investigate this route myself after having removed e-units
from some of my engines and using a Can motor in my 336. The can motor runs
awesome with the flywheel.
If you aren't one for butchering your flyer stuff, These can motors are
great because you don't make any permanent modifications. Removing an e-unit
is a reversible process also. Just save and label the parts and you can
always revert back to the old flyer way. I'm just not sure why anyone would
change back though.
I ran my converted 336 at the GAT show and everyone who saw it running
thought it was all original. It really fools them. Although some say I'm a
fool for converting. I love this country!!!!
Never take life seriously.
Nobody gets out alive anyway.

THE TRAINNUT
CHRIS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17025 From: Alex Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: S Gauge and Amateur Radio operators
It's amazing what one comment can cause! "John L." mentioned his ham radio
junkbox, and licensed Radio Amateurs who love S gauge are coming out of the
proverbial woodwork.

So far, here are the callsigns of ham radio operators we know are on this
list. An on-the-air S-gauge net would be great, or at least a roundtable
attempt, but whether we can accommodate the "close-in" stations with the
ones far away remains to be seen.

I'm thinking in terms of 40-meters for that type of operation, or perhaps
80-meters at night (CW or fone).

W7TS, Ken
N3PP, Paul
KC6UPX, Scott
WC4J, David
WB7NSE, Steve
WA8LBH, Chuck
"John L." (callsign needed)
and me, AI2Q, Alex.

Any others? Any additional thoughts?

Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17026 From: Alex Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: S Gauge and Amateur Radio operators (II)
Add N1PIC, Al, to the Radio Amateur S-gauge list!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17027 From: Alex Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: S Gauge and Amateur Radio operators (III)
If you're keeping track, add W9SBT, Carl, to the list.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17028 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re: (no subject)
In a message dated 1/29/02 10:38:18 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Cbtrainnut1@... writes:

<< "A steam engine lover yearning for some variety is going to feel really
deprived. This may be a principal reason to retain some sort of Gilbert
compatibility "by RB

Hard to do in "S" without the flyer is something I agree with. BUT! Take an
old flyer unit in good condition, replace with a DC can motor with flywheel
for 27.95 and a DCC decoder (may need a more stuff for this) and run the old
steamers with the new ones. >>

True, and in the interim AC engines will run on DC, and there are DC
Northerns and 0-8-0s. What I also had in mind were other factors (e.g., one
choose trackage that accommodates larger flanges, scenery clearances, etc.).
Judging from Bob's clarification of his objectives, this worry appears to be
moot.

...... and I still can't bring myself to even comtemplate modifying a vintage
SIT Gilbert steamer as you describe. <g>

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 17029 From: dougwyatt Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: S Gauge and Amateur Radio operators
You can add me to your new list!

N2JOK, Doug
from the Hudson Valley, NY
Group: S-Trains Message: 17030 From: bob_massie Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Still more questions
Not that I don't still want some help with the other things I asked
about, but what about buildings? Plasticville, with some work,
should be passable, right? What about using other HO or O
buildings? At least some of Walthers' O Cornerstone buildings seem
to be a little small for O and look like they'd readily lend
themselves to S with little to no modification. I know there are HO
buildings that lend themselves to S--and I still have some from my
last venture into this. I also have some Ertl "Farm Country"
buildings that I fixed up a little bit which were more than passable.

And, what about figures? The MTH-Railking figures seem a little
small for O, too. How do they stack up for S? Are 1:72 figures ok
or are they noticeably too small?

Static display vehicles is easy--I have tons of those die-cast Johnny
Lightning, Ertl, Spec Cast, and other cars, trucks, and farm
equipment that all fit my 1965-1980 time frame. But has anyone tried
adding some "HO" slots for some animation? The "HO" cars (regular
cars are available if you look) seem too big for HO and are closer to
Matchbox and JL in size. Any thoughts on this aspect of the hobby?
I thought it might get my kids interested in it, too, if I had
some "race cars" for them and some "highway cars" for my operating
sessions.

Man, this is going to be fun! :>)

Bob Massie
Group: S-Trains Message: 17031 From: Alex Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: S Gauge and Amateur Radio operators (IV)
Updated Amateur Radio and S-gauge enthusiast (S-Trains list) station
callsigns and operators:

29 Jan. 2002

N1PIC, Al
W9SBT, Carl
N2JOK, Doug
W7TS, Ken
N3PP, Paul
KC6UPX, Scott
WC4J, David
WB7NSE, Steve
WA8LBH, Chuck
"John L." (callsign needed)
and me, AI2Q, Alex.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17032 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re: Testing...and a few questions
A comment on the AC/DC "problem". You can run both. Put a control box
after your transformer that switches between straight AC transformer
output and rectified output (DC). If you have engines that need polarity
reverse include a DPDT switch on the DC output after rectification. You
can get all the stuff you need at a Radio Shack store.

Alternatively, and maybe a little simpler, use a DC supply and a
transformer separately. Arrange a DPDT switch so you can switch between
their outputs to the track.

Our club runns AC and DC and my home layout also. Just set the switches
on the control box to suit the power needs of what's on the track. For
AC sounds hook up the control buttons as usual on the transformer
output. They won't affect the DC output when not actuated (and maybe not
when actuated).

bob_massie wrote:
>
> Hello:
>
> I've just joined this group. I have some experience with S scale,
> but haven't been involved in it for a while--maybe a good ten years
> or so.
>
> I am considering re-entering S, but wanted to know a few basic things
> before I decide which way to go.
>
> First, I have the AF MOPAC set from 1991 with the Railsounds PB and
> extra dome and coach (I don't have the dining car), and wanted to
> know if it would be better for me to get a dining car and then use
> this never-run, new-in-box (plus two minor non-cosmetic, easily un-
> doable modifications) set or sell it to a collector and use the
> proceeds to purchase AM and/or SHS equipment. I don't really like
> the AF dome cars--they really need the dome window frames painted
> silver and an interior in the dome. I can live with the fact that
> the car sides are still "standard coach" sides. I would also like to
> put diaphragms on the passenger cars if I were to keep it and use it
> as my primary train, but, again, I don't want to ruin a collectible
> that someone else might cherish when I'd be equally satisfied to run
> AM or SHS equipment. So--sell it or go with it?
>
> Next, I have still got some old Code .100 track. I am strongly
> considering hi-rail this time, and know that this won't work
> with .100 rail. It may become the basis for a small, separate
> switching section or model of some abandoned trackage. I do have
> some unused AM .148 track and switches left over from when I thought
> I'd be adding the MOPAC set to my old layout. Here's the question:
> what track should I use this time around for a hi-rail layout?
> GarGraves? AM .148? SHS .125? A mixture for visible and invisible
> trackage?
>
> Lastly--at least for the moment--should I go with AC or DC? If I
> stick with the Flyer, AC will be the way to go so the sound system
> works, but what if I go with AM or SHS? Ron Bashista (hope I got
> that right) was kind enough to e-mail me that the sound systems in
> the AM E-8 or F-7B work with AC, so AC's still a possibility even if
> I sell the AF set and go with AM or SHS. I used DC last time, but
> sold all of it--well, at least I gave it to someone to sell...I still
> haven't seen a dime from it. I'll work that issue later.
>
> I'd sure appreciate any help you can give me. I can be reached at
> Robert.Massie@... or bob_massie@... .
>
> Thanks!
> Bob M.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17033 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: more questions
Bob: judging from your comments I would say you should get into S Scale or
hirail and leave the Flyer alone. And this is a confirmed Flyer freak
speaking.

Toy train operators and scale operators have the same goal -- to make time
stand still -- but they (we) go about it in different ways.

Us toy train guys like to make our childhoods come alive -- to obtain
things from the Flyer catalogs that we used to dream of, to run the trains
that our relatives and friends, many of whom are now passed on, gave us or
played with together with us.

Scale guys usually want to make a specific prototype in a specific era come
alive again, like a time capsule. It's just as beautiful and personal but
different than the above.

You sound like a scale guy to me. if the plain ends of the MP passenger
cars (diaphragms won't really improve that much) bother you, to say nothing
of the white walled drive wheels, Flyer is not for you.

The LTI set is not a valuable collectible; I don't consider it a
collectible at all though some would disagree. To me, it's a modern toy
that's compatible with my old toys, no more.

To further illustrate the difference between scalers and Flyerers, what
bothers ME about the LTI MP set is the blue. The Flyer original was a
pastel blue. LTI got hold of original MP paint samples and copied the blue
exactly. he LTI set is not the pastel blue color that fascinated me so at
the age of 9 or whatever, but rather much darker. Also , colors have scale
just as models do. In order to make a color look right on a small model,
it must often be lightened a little. The Flyer original LOOKS a lot more
like an MP train than the LTI exact copy. That LTI was unaware of this
simple fact speaks to the quality of their efforts. I don't believe you
would be satisfied long term with this train unless you modified it
drastically.

I would suggest you start building yourself a few trains, detailed to your
heart's content, perhaps one freight and one passenger, and see how it
goes. Build a small layout for testing that can be expanded into your
dream rr as you get more comfortable. his will help you determine your
direction -- hirail, scale, or what ever.

Model Railroading is just like music (I used to be a musician). Pathways
exist. if you stumble onto one, it will take you someplace you might not
have expected. All you have to do is follow it.

Tom Jzarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17034 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re: Still more questions
Hi Bob,
I tried the slot car route this christmas. Don't buy the new cars. They have
magnets in the chassis to make them stay on the track at high speeds. The old
Aurora cars are grea though. And there is a company name Model Motoring that
makes the old style Aurora cars. Have fun!!!
Never take life seriously.
Nobody gets out alive anyway.

THE TRAINNUT
CHRIS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17035 From: John L. Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge and Amateur Radio operators
Alex - the call sign is VE3RF - licensed in 1959 when I was 16, got my Flyer set, a
290 at age 6, my 2 brothers got one each at age 6. My Father kept them (and played
with them), and when he passed away - one of my brothers set up a Flyer layout using
them. I purchased a set off ebay a year ago, and at that point, my brother gave me
back my set - Got hooked - or back on the rail so to speak. I can take em apart and
fix them better that I used to at age 6 - hi! So now Im a junkie at both the train
and ham radio flea markets. Some call it a nostalgia kick. I like my S gauge to be
original Flyerl. My layouts still on the floor. So now Ive got something more to do
when I retire.

Alex wrote:

> It's amazing what one comment can cause! "John L." mentioned his ham radio
> junkbox, and licensed Radio Amateurs who love S gauge are coming out of the
> proverbial woodwork.
>
> So far, here are the callsigns of ham radio operators we know are on this
> list. An on-the-air S-gauge net would be great, or at least a roundtable
> attempt, but whether we can accommodate the "close-in" stations with the
> ones far away remains to be seen.
>
> I'm thinking in terms of 40-meters for that type of operation, or perhaps
> 80-meters at night (CW or fone).
>
> W7TS, Ken
> N3PP, Paul
> KC6UPX, Scott
> WC4J, David
> WB7NSE, Steve
> WA8LBH, Chuck
> "John L." (callsign needed)
> and me, AI2Q, Alex.
>
> Any others? Any additional thoughts?
>
> Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17036 From: Lance McCold Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re: ...and a few questions
Bob,

I am sure you will get opinions from all over the map. And, they are all
good opinions. This is a wonderful hobby. Everybody has a different way and
each person's way is right. I will offer my opinions with reasons and you
can decide if they help or not.

I would sell the MoPac if you are not attached to it. The S-Helper and
American Models stuff is so good!!. Look at the March Classic Toy Trains
review of the new Budd cars. If you go this way, you will want to use flex
track and wide radii. If you need the tight turns like AF track, better
stay with the Flyer equipment. On the other hand, once you get this
beautiful new equipment, you may start wondering if you should not go scale
again. Decisions, decisions!

Gargraves is good and the price is about as good as it gets unless you find
rusty Flyer track and restore it. For better looking track, the AM and SHS
is as close to scale as it gets while still running high-rail. I have some
AM track; it is very nice. The pictures of the American S-Gauge track look
pretty good if code 172 is OK for you. My S-buddy and I are planning to go
with the SHS code 125 flex track to get as close as possible to scale while
allowing old Flyer equipment to run on it. (If you go Gargraves, I have a
bunch of the stainless steel with wood ties flex track that does not fit
into my current plans.)

My recommendation is to go with DC power. For the additional cost of AC
units and sound systems, you can buy DC sound systems and maybe DCC. The
old reverse units need a fair amount of maintenance to work reliably. The
best reason I can see to stay AC is to keep your old Flyer equipment
original, and to run everything like it did 50 years ago. It is not my
preference, but definitely a cool thing to do.

Whatever you decide will be fun. Go for it.

Lance McCold
Knoxville, TN

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 03:37:01 -0000
From: "bob_massie" <bob_massie@...>
Subject: Testing...and a few questions

Hello:

I've just joined this group. I have some experience with S scale,
but haven't been involved in it for a while--maybe a good ten years
or so.

I am considering re-entering S, but wanted to know a few basic things
before I decide which way to go.

First, I have the AF MOPAC set from 1991 with the Railsounds PB and
extra dome and coach (I don't have the dining car), and wanted to
know if it would be better for me to get a dining car and then use
this never-run, new-in-box (plus two minor non-cosmetic, easily un-
doable modifications) set or sell it to a collector and use the
proceeds to purchase AM and/or SHS equipment. I don't really like
the AF dome cars--they really need the dome window frames painted
silver and an interior in the dome. I can live with the fact that
the car sides are still "standard coach" sides. I would also like to
put diaphragms on the passenger cars if I were to keep it and use it
as my primary train, but, again, I don't want to ruin a collectible
that someone else might cherish when I'd be equally satisfied to run
AM or SHS equipment. So--sell it or go with it?

Next, I have still got some old Code .100 track. I am strongly
considering hi-rail this time, and know that this won't work
with .100 rail. It may become the basis for a small, separate
switching section or model of some abandoned trackage. I do have
some unused AM .148 track and switches left over from when I thought
I'd be adding the MOPAC set to my old layout. Here's the question:
what track should I use this time around for a hi-rail layout?
GarGraves? AM .148? SHS .125? A mixture for visible and invisible
trackage?

Lastly--at least for the moment--should I go with AC or DC? If I
stick with the Flyer, AC will be the way to go so the sound system
works, but what if I go with AM or SHS? Ron Bashista (hope I got
that right) was kind enough to e-mail me that the sound systems in
the AM E-8 or F-7B work with AC, so AC's still a possibility even if
I sell the AF set and go with AM or SHS. I used DC last time, but
sold all of it--well, at least I gave it to someone to sell...I still
haven't seen a dime from it. I'll work that issue later.
I'd sure appreciate any help you can give me. I can be reached at
Robert.Massie@... or bob_massie@... .

Thanks!
Bob M.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17037 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re: ...and a few questions
Lance McCold wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> I am sure you will get opinions from all over the map. And, they are all
> good opinions. This is a wonderful hobby. Everybody has a different way and
> each person's way is right. I will offer my opinions with reasons and you
> can decide if they help or not.

I agree with Lance about starting out fresh with AM & SHS as a preferred
path. I have many AM and an SHS loco and they're all superior to any
Flyer for looks and performance. My Flyers mostly stay on display now.
One point mentioned was the reference to flex track. Actually both AM
and SHS make rigid sectional track that's larger radius than original
Flyer, so you don't have to go with flex track unless you want to. By
the time you buy roadbed to mount the flex track it's not drastically
cheaper. Except for SHS sectional, you'll want to ballast SHS flex, AM
flex or AM sectional.

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17038 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re: Testing...and a few questions
Bob:
What you are saying went throughmy mind as I wrote it. I realized that if I
were to rid myself of Flyer, I still would keep the steam. In my mind was
my little 342 puttering around the yards and my Northern on the point of a
UP passenger consist. Yes, you are correct sir. How some
ever; my statement, as it was written, still stands. I was going to add
that, in the future, Bob might be inclined to purchase some Flyer steam. I
was on a roll though, and I didn't!

As far as "Gilbert compatibility" is concerned, we now have within our
grasp, the power to make wonderful, powerful DCC equipment from Flyer
steamers. Gilbert can be made compatible with SHS and AM. Wouldn't that be
a great change; Flyonel boxes that say "SHS/AM compatible"!

Chris Zizzo

> << You can put together an S-gauge hi-rail empire of incredible diversity,
> including steam, and not use one Flyer piece. >>
>
> Chris, agree with everything you said, except this. A steam engine lover
> yearning for some variety is going to feel really deprived. This may be a
> principal reason to retain some sort of Gilbert compatibility -- most
steam
> out there, except for a limited amount of expensive brass and a few other
> odds-n-ends (the few AMs) is still good ol' Gilbert.
>
> RB
>
> RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 17039 From: bob_massie Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Thanks for your help thus far
Ok, after reading the various posts to my queries on which trains and
track to use, I'm still somewhat at a loss, but forming an opinion.
Here goes.

Basics. I'm leaning toward the scale side of things but most likely
using DC, Kadee #802s or maybe #5s, and Hi-rail wheelsets. I have a
pretty good idea of the scale side to modeling; I'vew done it in N
and/or HO for a long time. I also had an O gauge layout with Lionel
and Williams equipment that ran great basically right out of the
box. S Hi-rail with its two-rail track (regardless of maker) seems
to offer me the best of both worlds--reliable operation and better
appearance than three-rail O. DC allows me to save money up front
and go to DCC later. I can use the MRC powerpacks I already have on
hand, too.

Track. I have seen GarGraves S track mounted directly to the surface
and ballasted with the sides of the rails blackened. It looked
pretty good to me, though to a true scale affectionado (spelling?) it
would probably look toy-like; however, I always thought N scale with
code .080 rail did, too. (I think the conversion from code .080 in N
comes out to .200 in S!) In that light, I think the "scale" N
code .055 comes out a little smaller than AM .148 and bigger than
SHS .125. Bottom line: cost may factor into it when all is said and
done, as well as the particular application. I will note, however,
that this layout is to be simple and fun to play with. I like doing
scenery and buildings as much as I do the trains, and I think I'll
try to keep the trains in proportion with their surroundings--no more
spaghetti bowl!


Trains. I am not attached to the Flyer. I'm not 100% sure, but
mygut feeling is that I may well sell it and its B unit and extra
cars on e-bay or to someone who's interested in it. I do have to
locate the PB and extra cars, though. I'm having a new garage built
and they're temporarily out of pocket as it were. The original set
is on the dining room table. I owned a DC AM FP-7 and a couple other
engines and they ran great--very quiet and good pullers. I also used
AM rolling stock and liked it as well. I'll probably go that route
again--if/when I sell the LTI or Flyonel MoPac set. The parts
lacking sufficient detail are hidden between the cars, and the domes
can always stay in the box.

Buildings. The jury is still out on that one. I'm waiting to see
what this august group recommends. There seem to be lots of
buildings for narrow gauge Colorado but not so much "regular" stuff
out there. Half of the fun is researching what will and won't work
in the first place, then making it better.

Vehicles. Static display vehicles will come from my collection.
Already done. I am seriously leaning to acquiring some of the Model
Motoring, MEV Originals, or other Aurora-like models that are close
to S and having a moving highway that may double as a racetrack for
my kids in the "off season."

Figures. Jury still out on these, too, until I hear what you guys
and gals have to say.

Sorry for pontificating so much! I love reading what you all have
to say, and have soaked up every word of the threads that caught my
eye.

Thanks again,
Bob Massie
Huntsville, AL
Group: S-Trains Message: 17040 From: The Reis's Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: S Helper trains for sale
I have the following S Helper rollingstock for sale:


PS 2 bay hoppers

Maine Central 2492 grey
Maine Central 2492 grey
The Rock 507802 (8 is a decal) light Blue
Wabash 800 (number is decal) black
Northwestern 9524 (last number removed) yellow
B and O yellow 63154 (last # removed)
Nickel plate road 91508 (8 is a decal) blue

The above 7 have original boxes, and foam inserts but have been run, They
are in E to E- condition.

The 7 above are priced at $24 with highrail wheels with knuckles $22 with
scale wheels and without couplers (spacers installed).

Rebuilt boxcar Muncie and Western 1320 yellow and black new in box $35 with
both sets of wheels and $33 if I keep knuckles)

Lionel-Flyer Canadian Pacific Boxcar 48302 Silver/Red New in box $40


Shipping would be $3 for 1 car, $5 for 2 cars, $6.50 for 3, $8 for 4, etc.

Or make an offer.


Eric Reis

Kenmore, WA.
Where it is actually snowing for the 1st time this season. 5” now, but it
should wash away with the rain tomorrow.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17041 From: jahoozdumm Date: 1/29/2002
Subject: Re; Still more questions
Bob Massie wrote:

>And, what about figures? The MTH-Railking figures seem a little
>small for O, too. How do they stack up for S?

I've got a bag of 120 of them. The tallest measures out at 6'4" in S.
Should do fine.

>Are 1:72 figures ok or are they noticeably too small?

I s'pose they could be used in the background. They also might serve
as road vehicle occupants. Or skinny kids.

>But has anyone tried adding some "HO" slots for some animation

Future plans for our modular layout include installing some type of
operating roadway on a section or two. Might even include a grade
crossing. (The C+D Gran Prix?)

>The "HO" cars (regular cars are available if you look) seem too big
>for HO and are closer to Matchbox and JL in size.

So-called "HO" slot cars have been considered "1/64th scale" by many
slot racers for some time. Strictly speaking, the early-to-late 60s
cars are closer to HO, but since the 70s the cars swelled to their
present wheel base, which is about as big as they can get and still
run on 3" wide track. Those based on small cars like the Tyco Fiero
are too big for S, but others, like the Tyco 80s Camaro, are about as
close to S as anyone could hope for.

>I thought it might get my kids interested in it, too, if I had
>some "race cars" for them and some "highway cars" for my operating
>sessions.

Good idea. For your "highway cars", you might want to consider using
a chassis or two from the "U.S. Trucking" (I think that was what they
were called) series. They fit inside most of Tyco's car bodies, and
because they are worm driven, they can be made to run at believable
speeds. They also have two sets of pickups and two guide pins, which
enables them to back up. (I have a FedEx Dodge van that I intend to
use in such a manner...)

BTW, if you need a source of high performance slot track, check this
site...

http://www.home.eznet.net/~maxtrax/index.html

Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17042 From: Michael Christensen Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: Re: Mel's Diner
If you can't find a local repair facility on the list
on the mth-railking website, call them at
1-888-640-3700.
--- LEAHY RUTH A <ruth.leahy@...> wrote:
> Thanks to those of you that helped me with the
> wiring, but the carhops
> still hang up. The unit sounds like it is going to
> explode when it
> catches. Has anyone had problems with this
> accessory & found a solution?
>
> Mike Leahy (Boulder, CO.)
>
> P.S. I have tried emailing MTH, but have not heard
> back from them. Do
> they have any service techs you can actually talk
> to?
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17043 From: Tim Brown Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: To scale or not to scale
Hi,

There has been a lot of discussion lately about scale vs. non-scale; Flyer vs. all other S gauge; vintage vs. new stock. Mostly it seems people are involved with the whole scenic thing, which is great! There is another way. I operate a vintage Flyer toy train layout. I have a room in my basement with tables built all around in the shelf style. I've made no attempts at scenicing. What little 'scenery' I have is Plasticville, or operating accessories. While I do have a background painted on the walls to serve as a setting for the toy trains, it is simplistic. My train table is painted tangerine. It is a bold color, but really shows off the flat black spray painted inexpensive Flyer track I've used. I secure the track with track locks and only minimally tack it down where I have to. Wiring is neatly run to a back edge and then under. I do not want to make any holes on the table top. This approach lets me change the track plan any time I want with minimal damage. Do I have derailments. Sure. Do you? For me, the fun is playing with the track plan and running it until I get bored. Maybe I'll change my mind in the future, but for now, this is where it's at. I just wanted to share another viewpoint on running trains.

Have fun,
Tim



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17044 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: 1:64 trucks
Holy Cow!

After reading Chuck's note on U.S. Trucking and MaxTrax (nice track, very
expensive), I typed U.S. Trucking into Google and got a zillion trucking
companies, so I modified it to U.S. Trucking 1:64. As I said, Holy Cow.

Especially check out the third link "What's New". You are going to be busy
for awhile. "Martha, hold all my calls!"

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17045 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: More Cow!
Try this link on for size:
http://www.sktoytrucks.com/CheckListsLaunchPage.htm
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17046 From: royhoffman Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: Re: To scale or not to scale
Tim, It's 1:64 and that makes it right!

I wish we could all remember that it's
"The Battle of the Gauges"
not the
"Battle Within the Gauges"

Roy

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Tim Brown" <Timboy@a...> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> There has been a lot of discussion lately about scale vs. non-
scale; Flyer vs. all other S gauge; vintage vs. new stock. Mostly it
seems people are involved with the whole scenic thing, which is
great! There is another way. I operate a vintage Flyer toy train
layout. I have a room in my basement with tables built all around in
the shelf style. I've made no attempts at scenicing. What little
'scenery' I have is Plasticville, or operating accessories. While I
do have a background painted on the walls to serve as a setting for
the toy trains, it is simplistic. My train table is painted
tangerine. It is a bold color, but really shows off the flat black
spray painted inexpensive Flyer track I've used. I secure the track
with track locks and only minimally tack it down where I have to.
Wiring is neatly run to a back edge and then under. I do not want to
make any holes on the table top. This approach lets me change the
track plan any time I want with minimal damage. Do I have
derailments. Sure. Do you? For me, the fun is playing with the
track plan and running it until I get bored. Maybe I'll change my
mind in the future, but for now, this is where it's at. I just
wanted to share another viewpoint on running trains.
>
> Have fun,
> Tim
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17047 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1307
Bob,

I'd rethink the DC only senario. If you go to DCC at the start you'll save
yourself alot of time and frustration by not having to do block wiring. In
the end the cost to get started could be averaged out by the time you save
and not having a wiring nightmare especially reveerse loops.

John Griffin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17048 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: DIVCO 1/64 Scale Trucks
For anyone interested in 1/64 scale milk delivery trucks, the
following may be helpful. If anyone has one of the DIVCO trucks, are
they close to scale?

BG1

On Tue, 29 Jan 2002 06:08:18 -0800 (PST) Bull Gator
<bull_gator_1@...> writes:
> Ted,
>
> I asked if they meant "O" scale or 1/64 scale and
> explained that 1/64 is "S" gauge and 1/48 is "O"
> gauge. They responded that they have 1/64 and
> 1/43 as well as 1/35 scale. The link to the "O" scale
> trucks on their web page is broken today, so I guess
> it would take an email to see exactly what they have
> in stock.
>
> The email address I used was divcoclub@....
> Their response was pretty prompt.
>
> I plan on timing my layout for April 17, 1964 - the
> date the Ford Mustang officially went on sale, so milk
> trucks might still fit in. I have a couple of milk
> men (tall S or short O) on my wife's painting list!
>
> BG1
>
> --- TED R LARSON <mhrreast@...> wrote:
> > Congratulations on finding an e-mail address for
> > them.
> > Did you learn how the "O" scale comment got into the
> > description for the
> > 1/64th scale truck?
> > Ted
> >
> > On Tue, 29 Jan 2002 00:59:44 -0000 "bull_gator_1"
> > <bull_gator_1@...> writes:
> > > Ted,
> > >
> > > I sent an email to DIVCO. They have these old
> > style milk trucks in
> > > 1/64, 1/43 and 1/35 scales.
> > >
> > > BG1
> > >
> > > --- In S-Trains@y..., TED R LARSON <mhrreast@j...>
> > wrote:
> > > > Ron Inscho sent me info about a Divco truck.
> > > > Unfortunately, the website calls it a 1:64 "O"
> > scale truck.
> > > > Has anybody bought this one? What scale is it
> > really, S or O?
> > > >
> > > > > http://www.divco.org/Diecast1.htm
> > > > > Road Champs®: 1:64 1950 Divco Snub Nose Model
> > 13.
> > > > > "O" Scale delivery truck.
> > > >
> > > > Ted Larson
Group: S-Trains Message: 17049 From: Mr V Kosobiecki Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: K775
Hi; K775 is a Baggage loading platform it came with a knuckle coupler car..
775 is the same only it came with a link coupler car......
I guess you could call it a box loader......

The control box with 4 wires were made to be hooked up with either
the AC or DC trains.....

HOPE THIS HELPS
VIN


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17050 From: ljack70117@adelphia.net Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: Re: Die Cast?
Die cast is metal. Injection molded is plastic. Same process, two
different things.
Thank you
Larry Jackman

anormal1@... wrote:
>
> Does die cast mean Metal or that it was cast in a Die Sorry was always
> confused about this term. Thank You Mike S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17051 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: Re: More on 720A AF switches
--- "Neimanis,V. [NCR]" <v.neimanis@...> wrote:
> If not paired, is it possible to create inadvertent "shorts"
> depending on how the suite of "un-paired" switches are switched?

No matter how the 720a turnouts are configured or switched or paired or
"un-paired", there should be no danger of creating inadvertent shorts.
The only negative effect is that sometimes it can get confusing as to
whether certain sections of track are powered or not and why. In many
cases it will be necessary to run power leads to certain sections of
track that are affected by the power switching in the turnouts.
Especially so if using fiber pins and creating isolated track sections.
Use of fiber pins and the turnout's power switching can also be used
effectively to stop a train before entering a turnout that is switched
against it.


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Group: S-Trains Message: 17052 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: Monty
I recently tried to relocate to San Diego. I was told
that SDSU was not the school it used to be. Free
speech loses out to Political Correctness every time
on most Universities. All faculties are afraid to
stand for any thing that deals with reality. It is
impossible for a conservative to get hired, because he
can not get past hiring committees. Thus the
faculties do not represent the people.
I attend Vanderbilt games and they have a funny
looking Commador. Wyoming has a funny looking Cowboy.
USD has a funny looking Padre which did vulgar things
to a SDSU jersey. For every action there is a
reaction. I do not think the Indian owned gambling
Houses would want to offend the public by supporting
this type of PC. I sure would like their oppinon. We
can't rewrite history or read into things something
that is not there. Some people think we have no
tradition at SDSU, but they are wrong. Pease try and
get a balanced faculty so that my ideas are
represented.
We used to be SDSC, and it was the sucess of the
football team that lead to us organizing all the other
State Colleges to have a name change to University.
We had trouble recruiting as a College. The school
Presidents nor their faculties could not get the job
done. I remember getting my first job in Chicago. It
did not look good on my resume to have SDSC where
there was United States Interntional University up the
road. They new of SDSU because of the football
program.

Sincerely;
James Sleeth

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Group: S-Trains Message: 17053 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: Re: Tinplate and 4-4-4 locomotives.
Marty,
It is perhaps interesting to note that the four Reading P7sb
Atlantics that formed the basis for the Gilbert Atlantics began life
during the World War I era as Philadelphia and Reading
class C1 4-4-4s (numbers 110-113). They almost appeared like prototype
"tinplate" locomotives in that their boilers were encased in smooth
jacketing and they had large, centrally
located headlights They were among the first Wooten boilered
locomotives to be fitted with backcabs. The Wooten firebox on the
backcab P&R locomotives were really modified
Wootens and were actually much smaller than the earlier Wooten boilers.
The 4-4-4 wheel configuration resulted in suspension problems at
that caused the C1 class locomotives to be rebuilt to standard Atlantics
within a year. At that time they were
reclassified as P7sb. They remained in that configuration until the
Reading completed dieselization in the mid-fifties.
In fact, I have seen Whyte classification documents that call the
4-4-4 either "Lady Baltimore" or "Reading" and sometimes both. The
conversion of P7sb Atlantics back to class C1
would be an interesting one, indeed. Photographs of C1s may be seen in
Bert Pennypacker's "Reading Motive Power Pictorial" and Edward
Wisswesser's "Steam Locomotives of the
Reading and P&R Railroad."
I have often thought of "retrofitting" a junker plastic shell
Atlantic to a C1. Maybe one of these days...
W. Thomas Boussum

"If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch you must begin by
creating the universe." Carl Sagan in "Cosmos."



Message: 4
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 08:29:54 -0600
From: "Marty.Thorin" <Thorin.Marty@...>
Subject: True Tinplate in S (Was Japanese S-Gauge)

Dear Joe and Tom:
True tinplate in S... Maybe an NYC electric?

I have seen the American Flyer "President's Special" in standard
gauge. I
have always wanted the loco in S. Did the Japanese produce such?

------ Technical details ----
This is the classic O gauge and standard gauge electric from the
1920s. My
memory of the "President's Special" has four wheel lead and trailing
trucks
and the four wheels of the 4-4-2 steamer in the middle, sans side
rods.
Thus it is a 4-4-4 (or 2-B-2). It has an interesting metal coupler
that, on
a gross level, resembles the AF link coupler. It has two bare bulbs
sticking out of sockets shaped like headlights.
If I had the time and the skills, I would use an AF Atlantic
mechanism as the starting point.

Thorin
Group: S-Trains Message: 17054 From: yazfacts Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: American Models Trouble......
Dear Group,
I have an American Model S-12 Baldwin Switcher that up
until about a week ago ran just great.The other day I put it on the
track and when it started to move it made this VERY HIGH PITCHED
grinding/sqealing noise. It barely made it around the track,traveling
at a very slow speed.I contacted American Models by way of e-mail and
I won't hear back from them ( if at all ) for at least 72 hours.I
took it to my regular hobby center/ repair man who is basically a "O"
gauge man ,but he does repair my Flyer stuff, but he knows nothing
about American Models products.Does anyone have any ideas as to why my
usually smooth running Baldwin is making these noises ??? Or does
anyone out there repair American Model Products,just in case they
don't contact me ?? Please post any and all responces.Thanks as
always in advance.......Bob S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17055 From: Gerry Evans Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: Re: American Models Trouble......
BOB:

I don't own one of those AM Baldwins, but my guess, given the symptoms
you've described, is that you've stripped a ball/horn on the drive
linkage--or if that engine uses a spring instead of u-joints, the spring has
become unattached. A quick look inside will tell you if either of these is
the case.

Gerry Evans
In Flagstaff, where the snow flies in Arizona
Group: S-Trains Message: 17056 From: ron inscho Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: Re: American Models Trouble......
I have seen this happen when the motor has gotten loose from the double
sided sticky tape. This is easly fixed by using clear silicone to hold the
motor in place & then reconnecting the driveshafts or springs after the
silicone has cured & should'nt happen again
----- Original Message -----
From: "yazfacts" <YAZFACTS@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 5:29 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] American Models Trouble......


> Dear Group,
> I have an American Model S-12 Baldwin Switcher that up
> until about a week ago ran just great.The other day I put it on the
> track and when it started to move it made this VERY HIGH PITCHED
> grinding/sqealing noise. It barely made it around the track,traveling
> at a very slow speed.I contacted American Models by way of e-mail and
> I won't hear back from them ( if at all ) for at least 72 hours.I
> took it to my regular hobby center/ repair man who is basically a "O"
> gauge man ,but he does repair my Flyer stuff, but he knows nothing
> about American Models products.Does anyone have any ideas as to why my
> usually smooth running Baldwin is making these noises ??? Or does
> anyone out there repair American Model Products,just in case they
> don't contact me ?? Please post any and all responces.Thanks as
> always in advance.......Bob S.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17057 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: West Springfield "BIG E" Train Show.
Hi Folks,
We will be at the Big E this weekend. Our location should be over in the corner with the S Gauge layout and other manufacturers.
Please stop by and check us out!
Thanks, Tom D.

Tom Doherty
Pennsylvania Heritage Models, Ltd.
http://www.paheritagemodels.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17058 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: GATS in Louisville
Hi All,
The wife and I will be in Louisville, KY this weekend at the Great American
Train Show. Look for Elizabeth Station and the portable S-GAUGE Christmas
layout. Stop by and say hello. I'll have some of the Timko conversion motors
with flywheels on hand for anyone who is curious.
Never take life seriously.
Nobody gets out alive anyway.

THE TRAINNUT
CHRIS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17059 From: Chuck Smith Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: Re: American Models Trouble......
I think the drive is a derivative of a well known HO drive. You don't
say if you removed the body to look at the drive. Sounds like a ujoint
to one truck may have become separated or loose. If you look and find
out that's it, then AM will probably be able to send you new parts very
quickly- he'll take a credit card. Your regular repair man should have
no problem identifying the problem for you even though he's O oriented.
In fact, you can remove the body yourself with a screwdriver and watch
what it does on the track under power.

yazfacts wrote:
>
> Dear Group,
> I have an American Model S-12 Baldwin Switcher that up
> until about a week ago ran just great.The other day I put it on the
> track and when it started to move it made this VERY HIGH PITCHED
> grinding/sqealing noise. It barely made it around the track,traveling
> at a very slow speed.I contacted American Models by way of e-mail and
> I won't hear back from them ( if at all ) for at least 72 hours.I
> took it to my regular hobby center/ repair man who is basically a "O"
> gauge man ,but he does repair my Flyer stuff, but he knows nothing
> about American Models products.Does anyone have any ideas as to why my
> usually smooth running Baldwin is making these noises ??? Or does
> anyone out there repair American Model Products,just in case they
> don't contact me ?? Please post any and all responces.Thanks as
> always in advance.......Bob S.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17060 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: American Models trouble
Bob" have you looked to see if there is a foreign object stuck in the wheels?

Tom Jarchp
Group: S-Trains Message: 17061 From: jahoozdumm Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: RE; 1:64 trucks
Chris Zizzo wrote:

>I typed U.S. Trucking into Google and got a zillion trucking
>companies, so I modified it to U.S. Trucking 1:64. As I said, Holy
>Cow.

Poor Chris, I led him astray again. I should have said "TYCO U. S.
Trucking". That might've narrowed it down a bit!


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17062 From: Robert Wight Date: 1/30/2002
Subject: Sam the Semaphore Man
Can you explain to me a few things about Sam the Semaphore man? I need to
know some differances and also operation. There seems to be one with two
buttons and one with one button controllers. What is the operation of the
two? On the two button there is a green and red button. Can you explain what
those do? On the one button one, exactly how does that unit work. Example,
Does it keep the train stopped only while holding the button down or?
Thanks.
Bob Wight

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Group: S-Trains Message: 17063 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: MTH Phone #
Does anyone have a phone # for MTH where a real person will actually
answer the phone? I am hoping to talk to someone with service department
experience for my Mel's Diner problem.

Mike Leahy (Boulder, CO.)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17064 From: Horn, David Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: MTH transformers and SHS trains, or not.
Wayne Beachy, ACSG founder, has found that an MTH Z-500 works fine with SHS
engines where the MTH Z-750 would not. Do any of you know why? Thanks.
Dave

The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17065 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: Re: Sam the Semaphore Man
--- Robert Wight <blueearthbob@...> wrote:
> There seems to be one with two buttons and one with one button
controllers.

The one button is used with the 758 and stops the train as long as the
button is held down. A spring raises the arm and starts the train when
you let go of the button.

The two button control is used with the 758A. The red button lowers the
arm and stops the train. The green button raises the arm and starts the
train.

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Group: S-Trains Message: 17066 From: jfrr54 Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: Re: American Models Trouble......
--- In S-Trains@y..., "yazfacts" <YAZFACTS@W...> wrote:

I had a similar noise and it turned out to be a bad bearing in the
motor and the motor needed to be replaced. I sent it to AM they fixed
it and it works like a charm.
John Rodgers


> Dear Group,
> I have an American Model S-12 Baldwin Switcher that up
> until about a week ago ran just great.The other day I put it on the
> track and when it started to move it made this VERY HIGH PITCHED
> grinding/sqealing noise. It barely made it around the
track,traveling
> at a very slow speed.I contacted American Models by way of e-mail
and
> I won't hear back from them ( if at all ) for at least 72 hours.I
> took it to my regular hobby center/ repair man who is basically a
"O"
> gauge man ,but he does repair my Flyer stuff, but he knows nothing
> about American Models products.Does anyone have any ideas as to why
my
> usually smooth running Baldwin is making these noises ??? Or does
> anyone out there repair American Model Products,just in case they
> don't contact me ?? Please post any and all responces.Thanks as
> always in advance.......Bob S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17067 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: Bridge Rectifier Question
Hi All,
I went to Radio Shack today to get a Bridge Rectifier as an extra in case
something went wrong with the one I am using with a DC can motor. The last
one I bought was a 276-1171. I don't remember the values of this one. Of
course Radio Shack has discontinued that catalog number and now has catalog
276-1181A . The values for this BR is 6 amps 250 volts. I think the other
rectifier was 4 amps 125 volts but not sure. I'm thinking this new rectifier
is OK to use as long as the values are higher and not lower than the old
rectifier. Will someone in the know please correct me or confirm my thoughts
on this. Thanks.
Never take life seriously.
Nobody gets out alive anyway.

THE TRAINNUT
CHRIS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17068 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: MAGNET WIRE
Hi,
I found a source for magnet wire The only (Major) drawback is they
will nut let you choose the size wire between 20ga & 24Ga Seems cheap at
$2.00 per 100 ft roll + shipping My Question for the math types is can I use
a thicker wire size and if so how do I determine the length. I have a basic
idea that the ohms (resistance) will be different on the same length of wire,
but different ga. Are there any benefits to using a slightly thicker wire, as
far as heat billed up Etc. Mike S

PS the CO is www.sciplus.com The item # for mag wire is #23801 There
cat. is full of pretty neat stuff I bought 32.00 worth of stuff and the
shipping was $6.45 They go by the amt spent not weight


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17069 From: Scott Holm Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: Re: SCIPLUS
--- anormal1@... wrote:
> I found a source for magnet wire The only (Major) drawback
> is they will nut let you choose the size wire between 20ga & 24Ga.
> the CO is www.sciplus.com

One size they did allow me to purchase was 33 gauge, which I used to
rewind a docksider armature. 33 gauge is really hard to find. They also
have 1/64th old time Pepsi trucks for about $2 each.






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Group: S-Trains Message: 17070 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: vacuum packed collectibles
I saw a little segment on TV about inventions. A guy has come up with a
series of small clear plastic containers for collectibles, shaped like bell
jars. These slip onto a base with a finger pump, and all the air can be
pumped out of the clear container. Then, the container pops off the base.
Your collectible is now vacuum packed. They showed one container sized to
fit a baseball, and another to fit a golf ball.

Now you hard core collector guys could store your original Imitation Grass
and Artificial Coal bags in those things. I don't think much else Flyer
would fit in those containers. Maybe the xmas trees from the C.P. flat
car, if such things still exist.

What I don't understand is this: with the baseballs they use nowadays, I'm
surprised that the balls don't simply explode when the air is evacuated.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17071 From: dcourliss Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: S-scale figures
I am a 58 year old grandfather that has recently become handicapped.
Last year, for Christmas, my wife gave me an On30 train set. We use
the porcelain buildings from several different manufacturers with our
layout, which used to be HO. The problem with that is that the
buildings fit more with "S" scale. Another problem we're facing is
that MTH blister cards of figures fit the scale and passanger cars
perfectly. However, they are not really "O" scale, but closer to "S".

Does anyone know where we may purchase S-scale plastic figures? The
only ones we've seen so far are metal and quite out of our price
range.

Any help would be appreciated.

Please feel free to respond to Don Courliss at doncarol@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 17072 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
Interesting results. Out of 393
respondents only 110 gave their
age and about the same answered
the other questions so like any poll
less than 30% who logged on answered.

robbe_wan wrote:

I made some corrections in the Poll.
It really looks like the one below.

Please go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/polls
to respond.

What are the demographics of our list-
members regarding age, period
and equipment modeled? Check any
statement that is true for you.

o Age less than 19
o Age 20 to 30
o Age 30 to 40
o Age 40 to 50
o Age 50 to 60
o Age 60 to 70
o Age greater than 70
o I model "S" only
o I own steam engines only
o I own diesel locomotives only
o I own both diesel and steam locomotives
o I model modern area only
o I own only original Flyer items
o I own Flyer and Flionel
o I own Flyer Flionel, SHS, AM or other.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17073 From: Steve Blancard Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: Re: MAGNET WIRE
Here is a chart showing resistance per 1000" of magnet wire for both aluminum and
copper. You'll need adobe to open it.

http://www.pleo.com/cards/aluminum.pdf

A gauge or 2 difference shouldn't make any difference for actuator coils. Just wind
on as much as you can fit.

Steve Blancard

anormal1@... wrote:

> Hi,
> I found a source for magnet wire The only (Major) drawback is they
> will nut let you choose the size wire between 20ga & 24Ga Seems cheap at
> $2.00 per 100 ft roll + shipping My Question for the math types is can I use
> a thicker wire size and if so how do I determine the length. I have a basic
> idea that the ohms (resistance) will be different on the same length of wire,
> but different ga. Are there any benefits to using a slightly thicker wire, as
> far as heat billed up Etc. Mike S
>
> PS the CO is www.sciplus.com The item # for mag wire is #23801 There
> cat. is full of pretty neat stuff I bought 32.00 worth of stuff and the
> shipping was $6.45 They go by the amt spent not weight
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17074 From: Steve Blancard Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: Re: MAGNET WIRE
Oops, that should have been 1000' of wire, not 1000".

Steve Blancard

Steve Blancard wrote:

> Here is a chart showing resistance per 1000" of magnet wire for both aluminum and
> copper. You'll need adobe to open it.
>
> http://www.pleo.com/cards/aluminum.pdf
>
> A gauge or 2 difference shouldn't make any difference for actuator coils. Just wind
> on as much as you can fit.
>
> Steve Blancard
>
> anormal1@... wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I found a source for magnet wire The only (Major) drawback is they
> > will nut let you choose the size wire between 20ga & 24Ga Seems cheap at
> > $2.00 per 100 ft roll + shipping My Question for the math types is can I use
> > a thicker wire size and if so how do I determine the length. I have a basic
> > idea that the ohms (resistance) will be different on the same length of wire,
> > but different ga. Are there any benefits to using a slightly thicker wire, as
> > far as heat billed up Etc. Mike S
> >
> > PS the CO is www.sciplus.com The item # for mag wire is #23801 There
> > cat. is full of pretty neat stuff I bought 32.00 worth of stuff and the
> > shipping was $6.45 They go by the amt spent not weight
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17075 From: Scott Brown Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: AM SD-60
Gentlemen,
Today I came home to find my brand new American Models SD-60 UP engines on my chair. I eagerly unwrapped the package and opened the box. I have to tell you that it almost took my breath away to see those beautiful engines. They are so detailed and run so smoothly. If you've been thinking about buying any, I would give my recommendation. If they only had sound like the E-8 (which I think I will have to buy now that I've seen the SD -60s), they would be perfect. Great job, Ron.

Scott Brown
Atlantic Coast S Gaugers
Washington & Old Dominion Division
sbrown56@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17076 From: Don Thompson Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: Re: Big E trains Show this weekend for SHS!
We will be attending the Train Show at West Springfield, MA on
Saturday and Sunday this weekend. We just received the painted samples
for 6 of our new F-7 paint schemes as well some of our next run of
reefers. I believe we will be with our other S gauge friends in the
Young building.
Don
PS We have the engineering samples of our 2 bay composite hopper.

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 17077 From: gino restivo Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: Re: Bridge Rectifier Question
you should have no problem with using a higher
amperage rating , ck to verify the post are in the
same place before installation .......
i would suggest using a heat
sink / hi-temp silicone grease also if you have
the room for it , maybe mount it on a pc of
aluminum or the frame ?

have fun , gino

-----Original Message-----
From: Cbtrainnut1@... <Cbtrainnut1@...>
To: s-trains <S-Trains@egroups.com>
Date: Thursday, January 31, 2002 3:49 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Bridge Rectifier Question


>Hi All,
> I went to Radio Shack today to get a Bridge Rectifier as an extra in case
>something went wrong with the one I am using with a DC can motor. The last
>one I bought was a 276-1171. I don't remember the values of this one. Of
>course Radio Shack has discontinued that catalog number and now has catalog
>276-1181A . The values for this BR is 6 amps 250 volts. I think the other
>rectifier was 4 amps 125 volts but not sure. I'm thinking this new
rectifier
>is OK to use as long as the values are higher and not lower than the old
>rectifier. Will someone in the know please correct me or confirm my
thoughts
>on this. Thanks.
>Never take life seriously.
>Nobody gets out alive anyway.
>
>THE TRAINNUT
>CHRIS
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

----------------------------------------------------
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17078 From: Tom Pennington Date: 1/31/2002
Subject: 1950's AF Santa Fe "F3"!!!
Check out this auction on eBay for a '50s AF "F3" passenger set.
It really is a gorgeous set but I am always a little suspicious when
the seller does not even know what he is selling!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1801303355

_---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||]
[||####### #####|______||_____
|| UNION PACIFIC __| [][] |__ ||
||_______________________/ _| UP |___\_||
| ||| | | | | | | / | 6212 # ||| |
[]|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[]
/|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\
========================================================

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17079 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: New poll for S-Trains
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
S-Trains group:

This poll had only one Question. It is
an attempt to measure the age of our
group.

o Less Than 20 Years old
o 20-29 Years old
o 30-39 Years old
o 40-49 Years old
o 50-59 Years old
o 60-69 Years old
o 70-79 Years old
o 80-89 Years old
o 90+ Years young


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/polls

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17080 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: Re: Bridge Rectifier Question
CHRIS, THE TRAINNUT sez:
>The values for this BR is 6 amps 250 volts. I think the other
>rectifier was 4 amps 125 volts but not sure. I'm thinking this new
rectifier
>is OK to use as long as the values are higher and not lower than the old
>rectifier.

You are correct sir. The numbers you quote are upper limits, not
sensitivities. Both rectifiers are going to be fine at the operational
levels you will require of them.

>Never take life seriously.
>Nobody gets out alive anyway.
For those who don't take electricity seriously,
that exit will come sooner than later. 8<}

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17081 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: Bridge Rectifiers
Hi the Nov 2001 issue of "Classic Toy Trains" has an article on bridge
rectifiers on page 83. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17082 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: Rectifiers
Thanks for the response guys!!! It's off to the Louisville GATS. Stop by and
say hi if you are in the area!
Never take life seriously.
Nobody gets out alive anyway.Taking electric serious though, CZ!

THE TRAINNUT
CHRIS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17083 From: Gary Chidester Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: Problem with Polls?
Can someone tell me why I can access old messages, pictures, and files, but
not the polls?

gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 17084 From: Gary Chidester Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: Never mind the help with Polls!
All is working now. Dumb computers only do what you tell them!

gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 17085 From: Alex Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: Re: Breaking Lionel News?
The NAFTA mentality of globalization strikes again! = (N)o (A)merican (F)actories (T)aking (A)pplications

== Alex


-----Original Message-----
From: cbtrainnut@... [mailto:cbtrainnut@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 11:49 PM
To: s-trains
Subject: [S-Trains] Breaking Lionel News?


BREAKING NEWS
Lionel announces cost saving plan
Union given until Monday to propose alternative to Michigan plant shut down.
by Neil Besougloff


Lionel President Dick Maddox with two of Lionel's recent products.


One hundred years of American toy-train manufacturing may soon come to an
end.

Lionel, the best-known name in electric trains, is considering closing its
Michigan manufacturing plant, company president Richard Maddox said
Wednesday in a conference call with the editors of Classic Toy Trains
magazine and Model Retailer magazine.

Maddox said Lionel LLC notified United Auto Workers Union local No. 417,
which represents Lionel’s factory workers, of the possibility its
Chesterfield, Mich., plant would be closed. Maddox said the union was asked
to offer a proposal for cost savings by Monday, January 22.

“Our lunch has been eaten by our competitors” when it comes to overhead,
said Maddox. Nearly all of Lionel’s toy train competitors sell trains made
overseas, primarily in China and Korea, where labor and overhead costs are
lower. Lionel has steadily increased its overseas production in the past
five years to supplement its American production. Maddox said Lionel’s
strongest growth has been in the trains and accessories it makes overseas.

Maddox stressed a final decision about closing the plant has not been made
and that there is no timetable beyond the Monday meeting with union
officials concerning the fate of the plant, on the northern fringe of the
Detroit metropolitan area. Should Lionel close the plant, it would happen
before the end of the year, Maddox said. He said any closing would not
affect the delivery of trains to consumers.

Maddox said Lionel’s bottom line grew 16 to 17 percent in the past year, but
future opportunities are limited by the outdated Michigan facility.

Some of the tooling and other equipment in the Michigan plant are 40 years
old, Maddox said. Many of the O gauge toy trains, track, and related
accessories produced in Michigan have roots from Lionel’s factory in New
Jersey, before the train line was purchased by General Mills and moved to
Michigan in the 1970s. Lionel celebrated its 100th anniversary as a toy
train maker in 2000.

Maddox said that if the manufacturing plant is closed, the shipping,
receiving, engineering and administrative offices would remain in Michigan.
About 150 people work in those offices. Maddox declined to say how many
people work in the factory. Lionel in the past has reported that about 350
people work in its manufacturing plant, depending on the time of year.

Should the plant be closed, Maddox said tooling in the plant used to make
trains would be sent overseas to another manufacturing plant, but he would
not specify where.


Neil Besougloff is editor of Classic Toy Trains magazine.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Group: S-Trains Message: 17086 From: Horn, David Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: so much for a bargain
and I thought this 48019 might go for less than the current street value of
~$220 because it doesn't have a box - -
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1695693874&r=0&t=0&sh
owTutorial=0&ed=1012532436&indexURL=0&rd=1 Must have been the "p" word
that hooked the buyer. Can just hear it now at next show, "yeh, but these
are selling for more than $400 on the internet!" Oh well, half the fun is
the hunt.
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17087 From: Horn, David Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: ACG AF 360 PA to LTI can motor conversion completed
Some of you wanted to know when I got this completed. I now have an
all-chrome (Oct 1950) 360 that looks great (rechromed by Peck, decaled by
yours truly) and pulls like crazy (twin LTI can motors and electronics).
It's funny how the number on this engine reflects the process that I feel
I've gone through since first purchasing it - - a big circle - - but I'm
glad with how it ended up and all the education I received in the process.

To do the conversion, I purchased 2 LTI can power units and a matching
electronics board (reverse unit), and used my NP 8114 as a template for
their installation. I could have just converted existing chassis over, but
really wanted to start out fresh and "factory" with everything. The power
units come wired as did the PCB. I drilled holes for mounting the PCB and
used 3x32 nuts, bolts, and lock washers. Then I slightly filed out one stem
of the T-slot in the chassis to accommodate a RShack micro-mini switch
(rev-unit on/off), drilled small holes for that and used small AF sheet
metal screws to mount the switch. I also made some disc washers out of
.010" and .030" sheet styrene so the 360 yoke mounting shoulder-washers,
etc, worked securely with the new trucks in the old chassis. I drilled out
the fore and aft holes where the wires pass through the chassis and put a
rubber grommet in each hole to avoid the otherwise proverbial
wear-of-the-wires against the edges of the sheet-metal (packet 64-3025a from
RShack). Then I ensured the power units were uniformly lubricated (they
came practically RTR), installed them, screwed on the old side-frames (with
tiger-tails from the p.u. shoes), and wired it all together. It ran first
time, every time.

I broke in the motors by alternating 5 minutes in each direction at
half-throttle, 4 cycles a piece (40 minutes total). Then let her rip.
Neat. Next I added six 66X aluminum cars and got the performance I've been
looking for - - fast, smooth, and cool. Forward or backward. And it's
pretty quiet too. Sure you hear a slight whine from the motors, but not
much, and remember there's no hum from a solenoid to mask it out.

The saga in a nutshell is I bought this a couple of years agoa as a junker
(the shell's finish was a mess) so I could use it's guts to power my 473 and
have a true double header with the 470. It wasn't until I had it all
reworked with fresh brushes, springs, LTI chassis with pulmor etc. and
thoroughly cleaned that I learned that there were two sizes of ACG AF diesel
motors - - non-pulmor and pulmor. The first being just slightly smaller
than the second in terms of field and armature segments. Ooops, so much for
the d-header idea, it just wasn't an equal match for the 470. So I rebushed
the original chassis and used it that way to pull a train of shiny 66X cars.
However, to make a longer story short, after finding it gets pretty hot that
way, rewinding the armatures (fried a wire), shimming the drive train to
optimize gear mesh and performance, and losing that pretty rapidly due to
wear and tear, I finally gave up on making the original engine run this
mission any more. Ergo, can motors to the rescue.

Let's play trains!

Dave
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17088 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Dear Tom:
Thanks for the information about the class C1 steamers. Fascinating!
Another project just needing the time!

But the locomotive I had in mind was more of an NYC T1 electric. In fine,
lithographed tinplate with all of the style the 1920s can muster. Diecast,
spoked wheels. Something Ives or Coleman (American Flyer before ACG) would
be proud of...
Yes, it would be a CLASSIC, TINPLATE locomotive in gaudy colors,
glaring lights, with brass attachments. I can get this in Standard Gauge
and O but in S?
Scale flanges optional.

Thorin

--- Original Message ---
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:45:51 -0500
From: "W. Thomas Boussum" <euler@...>
Subject: RE: Tinplate and 4-4-4 locomotives.

Thorin,
It is perhaps interesting to note that the four Reading P7sb Atlantics
that formed the basis for the Gilbert Atlantics began life during the World
War I era as Philadelphia and Reading class C1 4-4-4s (numbers 110-113).
They almost appeared like prototype "tinplate" locomotives in that their
boilers were encased in smooth jacketing and they had large, centrally
located headlights They were among the first Wooten boilered locomotives
to be fitted with backcabs. The Wooten firebox on the backcab P&R
locomotives were really modified Wootens and were actually much smaller than
the earlier Wooten boilers.
The 4-4-4 wheel configuration resulted in suspension problems at that
caused the C1 class locomotives to be rebuilt to standard Atlantics within a
year. At that time they were
reclassified as P7sb. They remained in that configuration until the Reading
completed dieselization in the mid-fifties.
In fact, I have seen Whyte classification documents that call the
4-4-4 either "Lady Baltimore" or "Reading" and sometimes both. The
conversion of P7sb Atlantics back to class C1 would be an interesting one,
indeed. Photographs of C1s may be seen in Bert Pennypacker's "Reading
Motive Power Pictorial" and Edward Wisswesser's "Steam Locomotives of the
Reading and P&R Railroad."
I have often thought of "retrofitting" a junker plastic shell Atlantic
to a C1. Maybe one of these days...
W. Thomas Boussum

"If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch you must begin by
creating the universe." Carl Sagan in "Cosmos."

--- Original Message ---
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 08:29:54 -0600
From: "Marty.Thorin" <Thorin.Marty@...>
Subject: True Tinplate in S (Was Japanese S-Gauge)

Dear Joe and Tom:
True tinplate in S... Maybe an NYC electric?

I have seen the American Flyer "President's Special" in standard gauge. I
have always wanted the loco in S. Did the Japanese produce such?

------ Technical details ----
This is the classic O gauge and standard gauge electric from the
1920s. My memory of the "President's Special" has four wheel lead and
trailing
trucks and the four wheels of the 4-4-2 steamer in the middle, sans side
rods.
Thus it is a 4-4-4 (or 2-B-2). It has an interesting metal coupler
that, on a gross level, resembles the AF link coupler. It has two bare
bulbs
sticking out of sockets shaped like headlights.
If I had the time and the skills, I would use an AF Atlantic mechanism
as the starting point.

Thorin



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17089 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Night S-Trains Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Night S-Trains Chat

Date: Saturday, February 2, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:00PM EST (GMT-05:00)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat - Join Us in the
'Group' Chat room!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17090 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
This page can not be found


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17091 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Night S-Trains Chat
OK.....Will we be in the GROUP room, or the CLUB room ???
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com wrote:
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Night S-Trains Chat

Date: Saturday, February 2, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:00PM EST (GMT-05:00)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat - Join Us in the
'Group' Chat room!





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---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Auctions Great stuff seeking new owners! Bid now!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17092 From: Steve Blancard Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Night S-Trains Chat
I know I'm new, but let me see if I've got this straight...

Sunday night chat is on Saturday night 8:00 - 9:00pm EST

Is there a secret code here ???

How about a link to where it really is?

Thanks,
Steve Blancard


JFrederick Roberts wrote:

> OK.....Will we be in the GROUP room, or the CLUB room ???
> S-Trains@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.
>
> Sunday Night S-Trains Chat
>
> Date: Saturday, February 2, 2002
> Time: 8:00PM - 9:00PM EST (GMT-05:00)
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat - Join Us in the
> 'Group' Chat room!
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Auctions Great stuff seeking new owners! Bid now!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17093 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: Track tip
Hi All,

Here's a tip on track maintenance I learned the hard way: I recently ran into a section of Flyer track on a new layout I am building that caused my reverse units to go into neutral, I did some of the usual checks; rail tops for dirt/grease, no gap in rail joint, pickup wheels clean, track in gauge, pickup wheels in gauge and proper alignment (truck not bent), etc. In this case, none of those were at fault. When I cleaned the top inside edge of the rails with a bright boy, the problem ceased. I guess as truck wheels go around a curve, instead of the wheels making contact with the rail tops, the only contact may be the flanges with the top inside edge - at least momentarily. I thought it was worth mentioning.

Let's keep 'em rollin',
Tim



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17094 From: David Dewey Date: 2/1/2002
Subject: The Sacramento GATS show & AF running
Hi all,
Well, finally a few minutes of free time, thought I'd post our GATS show
experience in Sacramento.
We were in the second building, but about 5 min. before the show
started, I nosed around and was in the first building. Behind yellow tape
was a CROWD filled the entry area, and I'm told went a ways in the parking
lot. That was a sobering sight, and I scurried back to our booth to get the
layout running (I'd already tested everything, that's why I had 5 minutes to
wander around. From then on, at least until about 3:30 it was wall-to-wall
people. I did notice a large camera set-up taking pics of us, and
thankfully, everything performed flawlessly while it was there. (I have
since heard that Channel 13 covered the show, maybe I've been on TV!).
If you haven't seen our layout (Howard'S trainS) it has an outer circle
of AM track, center circle of SHS track, and an inner circle with two
sidings of AF track. The AF track is equipped with uncouplers on both
sidings and just before the switches on the main.
The outer track we ran E's and SD60s with the Budd coaches, all in UP
yellow. The center track sometimes has SHS SP black widow F3's and a mixture
of SHS and AM and AF (or even Flyionel) freight cars, or my SHS WP f3 and CZ
cars, including a dome-observation tail car. The AF track is usually my 292
(yeah, I know, ACG didn't make a 292, but I did from two junk boxes, and
other stuff) and freight cars, including a log dump car. One siding has the
Sawmill and dumping activator, the other siding has a coal loader and, for
this show, a log loader. There's a Gabe on one corner so the kids can push
the buttons (poor guy spent all day up and down, up and down. . .). The
other corner has a bell danger and a whistling billboard. An oil drum loader
occupies the main near the sawmill.
The poor 292 spent all day back and forth as we go into the sidings to
load or unload stuff. I uncouple the tail cars, then past the switch, back
into the siding, .load or unload, and back out again, back up and pick up
the tail cars, and forward around some more. The AM and SHS engines ran
practically constantly for 6 hours each day.
The kids (all ages) loved watching the log loader fill the car, and then
were surprised when a few loops later I'd back into the opposite siding and
dump the logs for the sawmill. A few loops later I'd pick up sawn lumber,
and another few loops load oil barrels, or not, as the guy zipped around.
One small fry came by and said; "This train just goes around in
circles!" Then I backed into the log loader and started loading logs. "OH!!
Coool!" Hooked 'im!
BTW, this log loader ran nearly flawlessly, seems to run even better now
than when I first started it.
The sound units on the new stuff were very well received, even ran the
new NYC steamer, she has a sweet whistle--but the big hit was the smoking AF
loco. One guy wanted to buy it off the table, but I couldn't set a price,
after all, it's just a bunch of "junk" I put together.
The reverse unit functioned almost flawlessly both days. The operator,
not so well; ran though two switches! From the last show I'd found out that
one trip for the bell danger sometimes ends up with a car sitting on it
while I'm loading or unloading stuff. The bell solenoid doesn't like that,
so I have added a 6 volt highway flasher unit into the circuit. Now when the
trip is constantly on, the bell dings and the lights flash. I hope this will
help the coil stay together a little longer.
We used the coal loader, but definitely need to speed it up!
When things quieted down, late in the day, I wondered around and finally
found the "information table" right at the front door. Here they had a big
sign, "TEST TRACK." Behind it was a variety of gauges of track with a couple
of transformers and some wire clips. All of this was just loose on the
table. The AF track was rusty, and some ties were missing insulators, so it
was shorted out. The other track didn't look much better either! For a
national organization, this seemed just tooo cheesy.
Had one odd incident. Guy walked up, and pointed to our aircraft tower
(one of the other guy's products, a 494), "Do you know where I can get a
light bulb for those?" I said, "Yes, I have some, let me find the box
they're in." About a minute later I got my head out from under the table,
1445 bulb in hand, and the guy had left! Someone else standing there shook
his head, "He just walked away." Oh well, back to running trains!
I did manage to pick up some parts at the very end of the show. One
thing I got is an NP PA shell that someone painted black. Thinking of
seeing if I can get the black paint off without loosing the NP paint.
Well that's the latest news from the Valley of the Trainbegone.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17095 From: Paul Yorke Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Sunday Chat Session
Just so there is no confusion,
Chat will be Sunday at the usual location ...
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

I will be in Jacksonville, but will try and make it anyway.

Bring your questions and stories, maybe we can come up with some answers
too.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17096 From: Paul Yorke Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Night S-Trains Chat
No code just sloppy administration.
Sunday Night at 8 ,
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

--- Steve Blancard <splitdorf@...> wrote:
> I know I'm new, but let me see if I've got this
> straight...
>
> Sunday night chat is on Saturday night 8:00 - 9:00pm
> EST
>
> Is there a secret code here ???
>
> How about a link to where it really is?
>
> Thanks,
> Steve Blancard
>
>
> JFrederick Roberts wrote:
>
> > OK.....Will we be in the GROUP room, or the
> CLUB room ???
> > S-Trains@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> > We would like to remind you of this upcoming
> event.
> >
> > Sunday Night S-Trains Chat
> >
> > Date: Saturday, February 2, 2002
> > Time: 8:00PM - 9:00PM EST (GMT-05:00)
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat - Join
> Us in the
> > 'Group' Chat room!
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Auctions Great stuff seeking new owners!
> Bid now!
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17097 From: Scott Holm Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Fwd: Wednesday's Joke-Gram
1. Snatch a kiss, or vice versa.<br><br>

2. Jesus is coming, everyone look busy.<br><br>

3. A bartender is just a pharmacist with a limited inventory.<br><br>

4. Horn broken, watch for finger.<br><br>

5. All men are idiots... I married their king.<br><br>

6. The more you complain, the longer God lets you live.<br><br>

7. Guns don't kill people, postal workers do.<br><br>

8. Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes.<br><br>

9. Help wanted, telepath: you know where to apply<br><br>

10. I.R.S.: We've got what it takes to take what you've got.<br><br>

11. Jesus loves you... everyone else thinks you're a dip.<br><br>

12. Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.<br><br>

13. Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle drugs.<br><br>

14. Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.<br><br>

15. Out of my mind. Back in five minutes.<br><br>

16. Keep honking, I'm reloading.<br><br>

17. Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at math.<br><br>

18. Laugh alone and the world thinks you're an idiot.<br><br>

19. If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made of
meat?<br><br>

20. I love cats... they taste just like chicken.<br><br>

21. Ask me about microwaving dogs for fun and profit.<br><br>

22. Itty-bitty cuddly bunnies... the other white meat.<br><br>

23. Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be
happy.<br><br>

24. I said "no" to drugs, but they just wouldn't listen.
<br><br>

25. It is as bad as you think, and they are out to get you!<br><br>

26. Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.<br><br>

27. Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.


__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17098 From: Scott Holm Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: hints
Helpful Hints

1. Flies or bees bothering you? Spray them with hairspray and they
will
take a quick dive.

2. Sealed envelope - Put in the freezer for a few hours, then slide a
knife under the flap. The envelope can then be resealed.

3. Use Empty toilet paper roll to store appliance cords. It keeps
them
neat and you can write on the roll what appliance it belongs to.

4. For icy door steps in freezing temperatures: get warm water and put

Dawn dishwashing liquid in it. Pour it all over the steps. They won't

refreeze.

5. Crayon marks on walls? This worked wonderfully! A damp rag,
dipped in
baking soda. Comes of with little effort (elbow grease that is)!

6. Permanent marker on appliances/counter tops (like store
receiptBLUE)!
Rubbing alcohol on paper towel.

7. Whenever I purchase a box of SOS Pads, I immediately take a pair of

scissors and cut each pad into halves. After years of having to throw
away
rusted and unused and smelly pads, I finally decided that this would be

much more economical. And now a box of SOS pads last me indefinitely.
In
fact, I have noticed that the scissors get sharpened this way!

8. Opening brand new jars can be a feat in itself. Well, I have found
a
way to make it the easiest thing to do. Instead of banging a jar of
jam,
pickles, etc., with a knife until it loosens up, I simply reach into he

drawer and pull out the handy nutcracker. It adjusts to the size of
the
jar and I simply give it a good twist and off pops the lid!

9. Blood stains on clothes? Not to worry! Just pour a little
peroxide on
a cloth and proceed to wipe off every drop of blood. Works every time!


10. Use vertical strokes when washing windows outside and horizontal
for
inside windows. This way you can tell which side has the streaks.
Straight vinegar will get outside windows really clean.
Don't wash windows on a sunny day. They will dry too quickly and will
probably streak.

11. Spray a bit of perfume on the lightbulb in any room to create a
lovely
light scent in each room when the light is turned on.

12. Place fabric softener sheets in dresser drawers and your clothes
will
smell freshly washed for weeks to come. You can also do this with
towels
and linen.

13. Candles will last a lot longer if placed in the freezer for at
least
3 hours prior to burning.

14. To clean artificial flowers, pour some salt into a paper bag and
add
the flowers. Shake vigorously as the salt will absorb all the dust and

dirt and leave your artificial flowers looking like new! Works like A
charm!

GREAT IDEAS....

1. Stuff a miniature marshmallow in the bottom of a sugar cone to
prevent
ice cream drips.

2. Use a meat baster to "squeeze" your pancake batter onto the hot
griddle
and you'll get perfectly shaped pancakes every time.

3. To keep potatoes from budding, place an apple in the bag with the
potatoes.

4. To prevent egg shells from cracking, add a pinch of salt to the
water
before hard-boiling.

5. Run your hands under cold water before pressing Rice Krispies
treats in
the pan and the marshmallow won't stick to your fingers.

6. To get the most juice out of fresh lemons, bring them to room
temperature and roll them under your palm against the kitchen counter
before squeezing.

7. To easily remove burnt on food from your skillet, simply add a drop
or
two of dish soap and enough water to cover bottom of pan, and bring to
a
boil on stovetop.

8. Spray your Tupperware with nonstick cooking spray before pouring in

tomato based sauces and there won't be any stains.

9. When a cake recipe calls for flouring the baking pan, use a bit of
the
dry cake mix instead and there won't be any white mess on the outside
of
the cake.

10. If you accidentally over-salt a dish while it's still cooking,
drop in
a peeled potato and it will absorb the excess salt for an instant "fix
me
up."

11. Wrap celery in aluminum foil when putting in the refrigerator and
it
will keep for weeks.

12. Brush some beaten egg white over pie crust before baking to yield
a
beautiful glossy finish.

13. Place a slice of apple in hardened brown sugar to soften it.

14. When boiling corn on the cob, add a pinch of sugar to help bring
out
the corn's natural sweetness.

15. To determine whether an egg is fresh, immerse it in a pan of cool,

salted water. If it sinks, it is fresh, but if it rises to the
surface,
throw it away.

16. Cure for headaches: Take a lime, cut it in half and rub it on your

forehead. The throbbing will go away.

17. Don't throw out all that leftover wine: Freeze into ice cubes for
future use in casseroles and sauces.

18. If you have a problem opening jars: Try using latex
dishwashinggloves.
They give a non-slip grip that makes opening jars easy.

19. Potatoes will take food stains off your fingers. Just slice and
rub
raw potato on the stains and rinse with water.

20. To get rid of itch from mosquito bites, try applying soap on the
area
and you will experience instant relief.

21. Ants, ants, ants everywhere ... Well, they are said to never
cross a
chalk line. So get your chalk out and draw a line on the floor or
wherever
ants tend to march. See for yourself.

22. Use air-freshener to clean mirrors. It does a good job and better

still, leaves a lovely smell to the shine.

23. When you get a splinter, reach for the scotch tape before
resorting to
tweezers or a needle. Simply put the scotch tapeover the splinter,
then
pull it off. Scotch tape removes mostsplinters painlessly and easily.

24. Now look what you can do with Alka Seltzer: Clean a toilet.
Drop in two Alka Seltzer tablets, wait twenty minutes, brush and flush.

The citric acid and effervescent action clean vitreous China.

Clean a vase.To remove a stain from the bottom of a glass vase or
cruet,
fillwith water and drop in two Alka Seltzer tablets.

Polish jewelry.Drop two Alka Seltzer tablets into a glass of water and
immersethe jewelry for two minutes.

Clean a thermos bottle.Fill the bottle with water, drop in four Alka
Seltzer tablets, and letsoak for an hour (or longer, if necessary).

Unclog a drain.Clear the sink drain by dropping three Alka Seltzer
tablets
down thedrain followed by a cup of Heinz White Vinegar.
Wait a few minutes,then run the hot water.



__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17099 From: Paul Yorke Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Poll - 'It's your duty!'
The best way to get to the poll is to go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains
then click on Polls.
It looks like everyone that has voted so far (except for 2 voters) is in
the 40-69 age group.
I thought (hoped) that there might be a few more younger folks????

Next weeks poll will be on degrees and education.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17100 From: Scott Holm Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: My apologies
I'd like to apologize for the two off-topic posts that I accidently
sent to the list. Please ignore them. Thanks.

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17101 From: roberte613@aol.com Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: 2001 Christmas Layout Photos
I just got back some photos of our Christmas layout. Wish I took better
pictures, but thought some of you might be interested since so many of you
contributed key suggestions and information to help in it's assembly. My son
and I start around mid-October each year and try to have it done by
Thanksgiving. This year we went with a winter theme for the first time.

Our layouts are totally eclectic with little regard to scale or time period.
Just lots of color, action, fun, and memories. We run a new Marx Christmas
train, my childhood 302ac pulling a variety of cars, an AF Santa Fe diesel
usually pulling some 66x aluminum passenger cars, and an AM Southern Pacific
pulling whatever we feel like at the time. Lots of operating accessories. A
fun holiday tradition.

Hope you enjoy the photos posted on s-trains group in the Christmas Layout
folder.

Thanks again for all the help.

Robert
Group: S-Trains Message: 17102 From: Steve Blancard Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Night S-Trains Chat
Thanks Paul. I hope the Super Bowl is a real blow out so I can pull
myself away to chat.

Steve Blancard

Paul Yorke wrote:

> No code just sloppy administration.
> Sunday Night at 8 ,
> http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains
>
> --- Steve Blancard <splitdorf@...> wrote:
> > I know I'm new, but let me see if I've got this
> > straight...
> >
> > Sunday night chat is on Saturday night 8:00 - 9:00pm
> > EST
> >
> > Is there a secret code here ???
> >
> > How about a link to where it really is?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Steve Blancard
> >
> >
> > JFrederick Roberts wrote:
> >
> > > OK.....Will we be in the GROUP room, or the
> > CLUB room ???
> > > S-Trains@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> > > We would like to remind you of this upcoming
> > event.
> > >
> > > Sunday Night S-Trains Chat
> > >
> > > Date: Saturday, February 2, 2002
> > > Time: 8:00PM - 9:00PM EST (GMT-05:00)
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat - Join
> > Us in the
> > > 'Group' Chat room!
> > >
> > > S-Trains list sponsor:
> > http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> > too!
> > >
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Auctions Great stuff seeking new owners!
> > Bid now!
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> > >
> > > S-Trains list sponsor:
> > http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> > too!
> > >
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor:
> > http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> > too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
> =====
> Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
> Photography - Computers - Trains
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
> http://auctions.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17103 From: David Dewey Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Night S-Trains Chat
What is this "Super Bowl"; are we having a Soup Kitchen contest??
;-)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17104 From: David Dewey Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Re: hints (quick joke-non train)
Scott wrote; "21. Ants, ants, ants everywhere ... Well, they are said to
never
cross a chalk line. So get your chalk out and draw a line on the floor or
wherever ants tend to march. See for yourself:"

Hmm, OK, but now my kitchen looks like a crime scene!

S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17105 From: Wayne and Alice Beachy Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Web Page update
Hello S gaugers

In a recent letter to the S list, I spoke of my several custom decorated N&W cars. I had a couple, OK one, request to see some photos, so I have updated my S web page to include photos of N&W, Virginian, and Southern equipment. Check out http://waynestrains.homestead.com/sindex.html and click on the N&W page button. Of course, check out the other pages also.

Wayne Beachy
Atlantic Coast S Gaugers
Virginia Central Division
http://sgauge.homestead.com/acsgindex.html



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17106 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: DC Trolleys
> http://www.dctrolley.org/dcstreet.htm

An interesting website.

And to think General Motors and other auto makers help to kill the trolley system in the US, because the auto was the way to go and more profits for them.

Now look at traffic today and the trolley may be coming back to DC!

Enjoy the site,

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17107 From: Rogerw53@aol.com Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1311
In a message dated 2/2/2002 4:41:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/polls

I can't respond to the poll because I can't get into the yahoo groups
website. I can't remember my yahoo groups registration information and when
I enter my birthdate and zip code on the sign-in problems help screen, it's
not recognizing my information. This may be a reason why others haven't
responded to the poll either.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17108 From: Michael Christensen Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Night S-Trains Chat
The amount of hype it develops it should be called the
Stupor Bowl.
--- David Dewey <djdewey@...> wrote:
> What is this "Super Bowl"; are we having a Soup
> Kitchen contest??
> ;-)
> S'
> David D.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17109 From: Michael Christensen Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: GABE THE LAMPLIGHTER A+ Lionel!!
My new AF/Lionel Gabe has just arrived. I must give
Lionel a well done on this one. It works great, and I
love the American Flyer Lamplighter printed on the
Flyer type button and the American Flyer sticker on
the base of the tower. It is dead easy to hook it up
(thank goodness as only instructions for hooking it up
to Lionel are included).

My AF/Lionel sawmill came with a very poor Lionel
button. All though it operates well, I give the MTH
version better marks as it includes a Flyer type
button ( which is marked MTH Sawmill) . Lionel could
have taken the cake here too if only they had produced
a flyer type button that said American Flyer Sawmill.

Any one tryed the SEARBOARD err Seaboard Coaler yet?

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17110 From: DoUg Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: GABE THE LAMPLIGHTER A+ Lionel!!
I received mine as also, and it is well done, however, when I first tried it
using an AF 40 watt
transformer, it did not work well when the lights were on. Gabe barely
could make one step on the ladder. So I switched to a 100watt AF
transformer, and that solved the problem. He now goes up and down without a
problem,
lights on or off.
Doug

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Christensen" <semaphoresam@...>
> To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 12:36 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] GABE THE LAMPLIGHTER A+ Lionel!!
>
>
> > My new AF/Lionel Gabe has just arrived. I must give
> > Lionel a well done on this one. It works great, and I
> > love the American Flyer Lamplighter printed on the
> > Flyer type button and the American Flyer sticker on
> > the base of the tower. It is dead easy to hook it up
> > (thank goodness as only instructions for hooking it up
> > to Lionel are included).
> >
> > My AF/Lionel sawmill came with a very poor Lionel
> > button. All though it operates well, I give the MTH
> > version better marks as it includes a Flyer type
> > button ( which is marked MTH Sawmill) . Lionel could
> > have taken the cake here too if only they had produced
> > a flyer type button that said American Flyer Sawmill.
> >
> > Any one tryed the SEARBOARD err Seaboard Coaler yet?
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
> > http://auctions.yahoo.com
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17111 From: Jim Carnes Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Re: GABE THE LAMPLIGHTER A+ Lionel!!
I hooked mine up today and am quite happy with it. Its attached to a 30B - Gabe will
climb that ladder as fast as your finger can hit that button!
Jim

DoUg wrote:

> I received mine as also, and it is well done, however, when I first tried it
> using an AF 40 watt transformer, it did not work well when the lights were on.
> Gabe barely
> could make one step on the ladder. So I switched to a 100watt AF
> transformer, and that solved the problem. He now goes up and down without a
> problem, lights on or off.
> Doug
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17112 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Re: DC Trolleys
Mike,

Thanks for sharing this site, it brought back some memories of riding the
streetcars around the Riverdale and Mt. Rainer areas back in the 50's.

Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "Dennis Owens" <dowens@...>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 7:42 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] DC Trolleys


> > http://www.dctrolley.org/dcstreet.htm
>
> An interesting website.
>
> And to think General Motors and other auto makers help to kill the trolley
system in the US, because the auto was the way to go and more profits for
them.
>
> Now look at traffic today and the trolley may be coming back to DC!
>
> Enjoy the site,
>
> Mike Marmer
> Germantown, MD
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17113 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Re: DC Trolleys
RE:Subject: [S-Trains] DC Trolleys


> > http://www.dctrolley.org/dcstreet.htm
>
> An interesting website.

Yes, I remember the Street Cars in Detroit. They were sold to Mexico City and ran many years down there.

But, 3 rail fans take hart, the DC Trolll system did use a center third rail as you can see from the photos. (All you have to do is explaine why a steam engine would be running down the same tracks) I'll stay on two rail myself, thank you!






---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions Great stuff seeking new owners! Bid now!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17114 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1311
I too can not get in....I am 64....Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rogerw53@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1311


> In a message dated 2/2/2002 4:41:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
>
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/polls
>
> I can't respond to the poll because I can't get into the yahoo groups
> website. I can't remember my yahoo groups registration information and
when
> I enter my birthdate and zip code on the sign-in problems help screen,
it's
> not recognizing my information. This may be a reason why others haven't
> responded to the poll either.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17115 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: 21155 docksider
What drives the gear that moves the choo choo piston?


Keith


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17116 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Poll
Greetings, I could not "get in" either...same problem. Reregistration did
the trick. Filed the information this time, so I won't have to
remember...getting harder at this age! Good luck! Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 17117 From: ron inscho Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Re: 21155 docksider
there is or should be a gear on the center axel that connects to another
gear above it and this gear is held on by a pin just like on the other
engines only smaller. I don't know the part number but have tried to find
both of these gears for many years & never had any luck. As I was thinking
that I could add the smoke& choo choo to the ones that didn't have it. The
smoke unit is the same as the HO units
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Kuzma" <keithkuzma@...>
To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 8:16 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] 21155 docksider


>
> What drives the gear that moves the choo choo piston?
>
>
> Keith
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17118 From: Al Paolozzi Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1311
It is almost like they are trying to keep us out. I gave up a long time
ago. AL
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rogerw53@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1311


> In a message dated 2/2/2002 4:41:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
>
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/polls
>
> I can't respond to the poll because I can't get into the yahoo groups
> website. I can't remember my yahoo groups registration information and
when
> I enter my birthdate and zip code on the sign-in problems help screen,
it's
> not recognizing my information. This may be a reason why others haven't
> responded to the poll either.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17119 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Yahoo Clubs
Yahoo Clubs, where we chat, seems to be completely redundant of Yahoo
Groups, where the list is located. There is a message board there filled
with posts from newbies who can't figure out how the list works. They think
that those miserable few (96) messages constitute the list!

Can't we get all of this together in one spot? If we can make the chat work
in groups, we can abandon clubs altogether and move the stuff all here. I'm
willing to work on the chat again. I think that during this weeks "Club
Chat" a few of us should open a second window on the "Group Chat" and get it
working simultaneously. It might have been pre-emptive to move the whole
chat in there without a thorough test. Everyone freaked out. If we try
again tomorrow, we might do ourselves some good.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17120 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: Scott Holm
Scott Holm, Ladies and Gentlemen!
He's 1 part Lenny Bruce, 2 parts Martha Stewart, shaken well!

Hey Scott. I really liked the tips, thanx!
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17121 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/2/2002
Subject: N&W colors
Wayne:
What color are those N&W Powhattan cars. Is that a real wine or burgundy or
more like Pennsy tuscan?

I have a set of Sylvania smooth siders painted a reddish tuscan with black
roofs. They are decalled for the Pennsy, but to me they look like Powhattan
cars.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17122 From: Paul Yorke Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: yahoo
not all list members are yahoo members. If yahoo acts
likes it does not know you just in ahead and register.

=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17123 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: Re: Yahoo Clubs
I think I got into the new group chat room with minimal problems last
week. Can't remember if I had to register or not.
I have reregistered with Yahoo on a few occasions when they didn't seem
to recognize me after long gaps in use. I now keep my user name and
password handy, taped on the front of my computer, 'cause I started to
use enough different variation I couldn't remember them, plus they would
suggest new suffixes to the user name. The next time they don't
recognize me I'll register again. It only takes a few minutes to
register and get confirmed.

Chris Zizzo wrote:
>
> Yahoo Clubs, where we chat, seems to be completely redundant of Yahoo
> Groups, where the list is located. There is a message board there filled
> with posts from newbies who can't figure out how the list works. They think
> that those miserable few (96) messages constitute the list!
>
> Can't we get all of this together in one spot? If we can make the chat work
> in groups, we can abandon clubs altogether and move the stuff all here. I'm
> willing to work on the chat again. I think that during this weeks "Club
> Chat" a few of us should open a second window on the "Group Chat" and get it
> working simultaneously. It might have been pre-emptive to move the whole
> chat in there without a thorough test. Everyone freaked out. If we try
> again tomorrow, we might do ourselves some good.
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17124 From: Alex Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: Yahoo is the pits
For the most part, I gave up on Yahoo a long time ago. Its user interface
apparently was written by backroom geeks with little training, nor regard
for the proverbial MMI (man-machine interface).

== Alex in Maine



-----Original Message-----
From: Al Paolozzi [mailto:amflyral@...]
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 10:06 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com; Rogerw53@...
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1311


It is almost like they are trying to keep us out. I gave up a long time
ago. AL
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rogerw53@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1311


> In a message dated 2/2/2002 4:41:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
>
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/polls
>
> I can't respond to the poll because I can't get into the yahoo groups
> website. I can't remember my yahoo groups registration information and
when
> I enter my birthdate and zip code on the sign-in problems help screen,
it's
> not recognizing my information. This may be a reason why others haven't
> responded to the poll either.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17125 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: Re: Yahoo Clubs
Chuck Smith wrote:
> I think I got into the new group chat room with minimal problems last
> week. Can't remember if I had to register or not.
> I have reregistered with Yahoo on a few occasions when they didn't seem
> to recognize me after long gaps in use.

Same here on both counts. Every once in a while when I go to Yahoo, it says
"Hello Guest". Then I have to re-enter my name, and the stupid name I have
is a result of everything I wanted being already taken on Yahoo, so I used a
cutesy name my wife and I call the cat: "Schnoodely Odily O". Only,
everytime I try to type it in, Yahoo won't accept it. It seems I got the
spelling of it wrong when I registered and I can never manage to recreate
the same error! Luckily, I have it in an old confirmation message, so I cut
and paste it in. What a disaster!!!

I went to the chat room last week about an hour early. I got in and carried
on a conversation with another early bird, David Garber, who was in there
alone, but had already signed in twice! I chided him about it and he said
he could not see both his sign ins on the list of chatters. (I stayed
signed on, but "away" while I cooked dinner. When I got back there were a
lot of posts, but you guys had abandoned ship by then.)

We had this same problem some time back in our regular chat room. One night
the group got split up. Two or three of us were segregated into a parallel
chat room. The bulk of the guys could see our messages, but we couldn't see
theirs. We had to sign off and rejoin the main room to beat it. All I'm
saying is that the same thing might have happened last week in our new chat
room. We need to try it out again and give it a chance. However . . .

Tonight is Stupid Bowl Sunday and I'm with some friends at the American
Legion Annual Steak Dinner, Drink All You Want and Gamble Away Your Money
Spectacular, so I won't be home 'til after the game. Similar circumstances
may impact the lives of other would-be chatters. I'm up for coming on after
the game though. Whaddya say?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17126 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: Good News
I can finally put down this damn light, for I have found an honest man.
The seller on E-Bay who offered the Flyonel SP Geep and actually sold it for
over $400 has written me a copy of his e-mail to the seller. I had written
him about the sale after it was done, and apparently so had someone else.
I'll attach a copy of his correspondence below.

Chris Zizzo
____________________________

Steve
steve , I have had 2 others email with info on that loco , turns out it is
lionel # 48019 , 1998 production, funny everyone could not find it before
the auction , even some train dealers emailed me saying they could not find
it !!, now they have , as stated in the auction I said it "may" be a proto ,
but turns out it is not , the guides say it is worth 200-250 in new
condition...If you still want it for 200 then we can do that if that is not
agreeable get back to me...........thanks AW
----- Original Message -----

AW, $200.00 would be WONDERFUL!! I will include the $5.00 for shipping and
I would like to include enough more to cover insuring it for $200.00. If
you can let me know how much that will be I can have the payment on it's way
on Monday. I would also like to thank you for your honesty and I will be
sure to include appropriate remarks in your feedbacks. Thanks very much,
Group: S-Trains Message: 17127 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: last week's chat
Chris: last week's chat was brought to a halt by an invader of some sort;
I don't know the correct technical term for it. A message appeared in red
letters saying "Danger! Will Robinson" or something like it, and then the
chat locked up. This exact same thing used to happen a lot last year,
before you joined the chat. Last week was the first time in a long while.
The chat locked up and no one could get in or chat. Last year, sometimes
we'd be able to restart and sometimes not. I tried three times and then
gave up.

Even though my preferences were set to "ignore messages from strangers",
the thing got thru.

How this destruction can be fun for somebody, go figure! I can't.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17128 From: Neimanis,V. [NCR] Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: Trouble with Poll Access
You are not alone with polling access, I forgot my password and the reminder
screens lead me only to the screen that the server is too busy try again. I
have tried and tried but to no avail.

Thus, You certainly don't have my input because of poor memory and busy
technology.

V. Neimanis

Message: 13
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 13:13:39 EST
From: Rogerw53@...
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1311

In a message dated 2/2/2002 4:41:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/polls

I can't respond to the poll because I can't get into the yahoo groups
website. I can't remember my yahoo groups registration information and when

I enter my birthdate and zip code on the sign-in problems help screen, it's
not recognizing my information. This may be a reason why others haven't
responded to the poll either.

-----Original Message-----
From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com [mailto:S-Trains@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 2002-02-02 9:00 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1312


S
Group: S-Trains Message: 17129 From: richgajnak Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: Speaking of Yahoo....
Sorry, I know it's off topic, but it's related to the Groups, and I
would like to know if anyone else has experienced this.

I am unable to post to S-Trains (or S-Scale and Showcase) from my
regular email, ever since I "verified" my email address with Yahoo in
early January. I don't get any indication that my email posts
are "undeliverable" or "bouncing." My emailed postings just seem to
vaporize. Direct emails to friends and family is working ok.

I can post from the Groups pages ok. But frankly, it's a pain to
have to login to Yahoo just to join in a thread. Plus, I lose
spellcheck, have less time to formulate a thought and can't cross
post anything pertinant.

I'm receiving my daily digests ok, and everything indicates that I'm
properly subscribed.

At the moderator's suggestion,(Paul Yorke) I've tried unsubscribing
and resubscribing. I've also tried editing and establishing a new
profile, and re-verifying my email address to no avail.

Yahoo tech support seem to be non-existant, and their "Help" pages
are of no help at all.

Any idea's out there?

Thanks,
Rich Gajnak
Group: S-Trains Message: 17130 From: Donald P. Abrams Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: ACG AF 360 PA to LTI can motor conversion completed
Dave,
>To do the conversion, I purchased 2 LTI can power units and a matching
>electronics board (reverse unit)
Is there a part number to order these power units from 'L'. I've got a list
of currently available service parts and couldn't come up with a number for
the complete power unit, only piece parts. I've got the number for the PWB.
Did you order direct or through a local dealer?
Thanks,
Don
Group: S-Trains Message: 17131 From: Gary Chidester Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: Long or short trucks?
How does one determine if a car has long or short trucks? I thought it was
two wheel sets for short trucks and three wheel sets for long trucks, but am
I oversimplifying? I found a 652 that was advertised as short trucks, but
it has three wheel sets on each truck.

Thanks.

gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 17132 From: David Dewey Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: Re: Long or short trucks?
Gary,
All heavyweight cars have three-axle trucks. The LC trucks came in two
versions; the first version was considerably longer (mine is buried, or I'd
measure it for you) and fills the undercarriage clear to the battery boxes.
The innermost sets of wheels have no flange on them too. The second version
is much shorter, about the same length as the KC trucks and all wheels are
flanged. I believe the first style was only used for one year.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17133 From: Paul Yorke Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: This 'IS' S Scale
I met Jon Addison from Pinellas Park Florida at the
Jacksonville GATS. He had his Sn3 Silverton Central
narrow gauge railroad on display. I snapped some quick
pictures and they are on the web for your viewing
pleasure. If you know Jon please share this page with
him, he is not a 'computer person'. This layout will
blow your socks off.

http://www.homestead.com/PYorke/files/sc/

=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17134 From: Lance McCold Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: Striping Paint from AF Plastic shells
I bought a couple diesels from Mrs. Mobley. I want to repaint them, but
first they need to be stripped. I know this question comes up form time to
time, but I would appreciate suggestions on how is best to strip the paint.

Thanks,

Lance McCold
Knoxville, TN
Group: S-Trains Message: 17136 From: Michael Christensen Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: FLYER SALES LIST
Sorry for the delay in getting this list together.I
have the following going on Ebay soon and unless I
sell prior:

K325 Engine - Beautiful! Whistle in tender, excellent
condition, runs and smokes well. Only downside is the
wiring harness between the cab and engine is starting
to go. Looking for $250.00

293 Engine: - Very good condition. Some playweart,
some discoloration on Drivers. Missing Coal Pusher.
Runs and smokes well. Revrse in Tender Looking for
$175.00

742 Reversing Handcar: Orginal Box, but inner flaps
missing on end. Two nibs missing. Motor runs, but
could use a tune up.
Looking for $100.00

Silver Bullet Train Set; 356 Crome engine ( Fair)
Crack in front cowcather ( repaired) Motor runs and
smokes well. Engine and mounting need work. Two Satin
coaches. Decals mostly complete on one side. Coach
bodys loose on frame. $200.00

585 Tool Shed: Some rust - good condition. Very nice
bakelite roof $50.00

769 Aircraft Beacon: Fair Condition. Wires loose on
bulb socket . Beacon in poor condition. $20.00

589 Mystic Station: Some rust. All windows replaced.
Illuminated. $50.00

CATALOGS

1951 Some fading on front cover. Very small tears on
cover. Otherwise good condition $20.00

1951 Very Good condition. No rips or tears. minor
aging. HOWEVER, Dealer pasted brown packaing tape
across the cover and wwrote Counter Book Only on it.
Dealer has also written some prices on the pages
inside. $15.00

1950 Piece missing of front cover, otherwise
excellent. Normal aging. $20.00

1955: Nearly mint $25.00


Let me know if you want to see pictures of any of
these. COntact me off list at Kite1@...
regards Michael

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17137 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: removing paint from plastic
Lance: Three things that remove paint from plastic:

1. Soaking in a strong mixture of water and a detergent such as Mr. Clean
or Top Job.
2. Brake fluid.
3. Paint remover for plastic, from your hobby store.

These soften paint. Then scrub with an old toothbrush to remove the paint.

Always test on an inconspicuous place such as the inside of a body to
make sure damage to plastic won't occur, before using a chemical like #2 or
#3.

Mr. Clean is most gentle. Paint remover for plastic is quickest. Brake
fluid is cheap.

Lye and oven cleaner are very strong and can sometimes damage Flyer plastic.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17138 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: Stripping paint
Lance, have used "used" brake fluid from a local garage...about a quart
though this will depend on the size of your "soaking" container. It usually
takes about a day to remove most paints though enamels sometimes take
longer. While it is slow, it has been very kind to Flyer plastic. Yet to
experience any damage. Some gentle scrubbing with a soft toothbrush will
sped up the process. A word of caution...don't do it out doors in the
evening. I had set some old painted shells out to soak, went out for the
evening. Returning home, I had to check on the progress and as I was
examining the shells happened to a catch movement. It seems that the
neighborhood skunk also stopped by to check things out and the rest is...
history. Good luck! Best to all, Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 17139 From: Alex Sibbald Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: accessories
Hi all,
I want to buy one of these new accessories and I really need the advice
of this group because I can't afford to buy and try each accessory. I am
looking at the sawmill,
log loader and coal loader. Which accessory would provide the most
amount of fun and activity for grandkids? Does the sawmill load the wood
into a gondola? Can the log loader load onto a train car that can then
eject the logs at another location?
Thanks alot,
Alex(innotron)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17140 From: jahoozdumm Date: 2/3/2002
Subject: Re: Stripping paint
I have found that, overall, oven cleaner is kinder to plastic than
brake fluid. I almost lost a tankcar end while attempting to strip it
in brake fluid, which immediately began to dissolve the plastic. I
got it out in time, but its edges were somewhat... uh, rounded. The
other tank end was stripped using Easy Off (yellow label), which left
the plastic unharmed.

Another option is Castrol Super Clean. I haven't tried it yet, but it
sounds promising.

Read about it here:

http://www.bonediggers.com/1-3/strip/strip.html


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17141 From: Michael Christensen Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Re: accessories
Hello Alex:

All three accessories are fun choices, but my vote for
what entertains young railroaders the longest is the
coal loader! Hours can be spend loading cars. I have
mine set up to load cars and then we unload on the
same side track. My son and I spend hours loading them
up and then unloading them. To unload you will need a
flyer unloading hopper such as a 716 (and a 710 or
712) contact rail for unloading). A drawback to this
car is "coal" gets everywhere and we use a lot of it!
The MTH repo of the AF785 is affordable but a little
slow. (Doug Peck of Portlines will soon offer a part
to speed the process up.) Lionel is now offering a
copy of the Seaboard ( or was that Searboard) coaler.
This grand loader is larger than the 785 and take up
much more space to load. I rate it #1 in play value of
the three you have asked about.

The log loader is also fun. I have an the older
version (AF 751). It is a little noisy, but you can
load cars at the front of the loader, and then unload
logs back into the loader ( automatically if you have
a log unloading car such as a 714. A track trip will
be needed as used in the coal loader.) I don't know if
this is possible with the 787 repo now on the market.
I rate it #2 in play value.

Two repos of the sawmill are available, one buy MTH
and one by Lionel. I have a Lionel version which works
well, but I like the MTH version best because of the
Flyer type operating button that comes with it.
Fun to watch, but it does jam once in a while. I would
rate it #3 in play value.

Another good accessory with lots of play value is a
magnetic crane. Currently there are no Flyer repos
available, but leading O gauge manufactures offer them
and they are suitable to be used with Flyer.

Have Fun! Michael

--- Alex Sibbald <innotron@...> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I want to buy one of these new accessories and I
> really need the advice
> of this group because I can't afford to buy and try
> each accessory. I am
> looking at the sawmill,
> log loader and coal loader. Which accessory would
> provide the most
> amount of fun and activity for grandkids? Does the
> sawmill load the wood
> into a gondola? Can the log loader load onto a
> train car that can then
> eject the logs at another location?
> Thanks alot,
> Alex(innotron)
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17142 From: Horn, David Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: LTI SP Geep on eBay
At least the buyer got an "honest" deal in the end, but the seller was aware
it wasn't prototype before the auction ended. I had emailed him that
information on the 30th.

-----Original Message-----
From: A W Brown HS [mailto:awbrown@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 4:55 PM
To: david_horn@...
Subject: Re: Question for seller -- Item #1695693874

if it does not work send it back , have only ever had one return , and the
train was fine , the guy changed his mind...............the engine is gray
----- Original Message -----

From: <david_horn@...>
To: <awbrown@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 1:51 PM
Subject: Question for seller -- Item #1695693874

> Is this engine painted gray or blueish-gray. This is the Lionel American
Flyer SP GP-20 model #48019 from 1998. But it was painted SP (battleship)
gray. Your photo looks more blue than that. Thank you.
>
> PS What is your return policy?
> --------------------
>
>
> Question from: flyer4ever
> Title of item: AMERICAN FLYER 4060 southern pacific RARE
> Seller: awbrown
> Starts: Jan-24-02 19:00:36 PST
> Ends: Jan-31-02 19:00:36 PST
> Price: Currently $103.10
> To view the item, go to:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1695693874
>
>
>
> Visit eBay, The World's Online Marketplace TM at http://www.ebay.com
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17143 From: Horn, David Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: short or long trucks
The long trucks had blind wheels (no flange) closest to the center of the
car. Still it's recommended to go with short truck versions as apparently
even with the blind wheels the long don't always work as well over turnouts,
etc. Have fun. Flyer heavyweights are gorgeous cars.
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17144 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Re: accessories
Alex Sibbald wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> I want to buy one of these new accessories and I really need the advice
> of this group because I can't afford to buy and try each accessory. I am
> looking at the sawmill,
> log loader and coal loader. Which accessory would provide the most
> amount of fun and activity for grandkids? Does the sawmill load the wood
> into a gondola?
I think probably the log loader. The sawmill has been reported by a few
people to be prone to jam. I know mine does every so often, and then I
worry about stripping the plastic gears, It requires lots of watching.
I have a Lionel and our club has an MTH sawmill. Both are prone to jam
occasionally.
>Can the log loader load onto a train car that can then
> eject the logs at another location?
Yes.
The choice between the log loader and coaler is tough. The MTH coaler
is $149 or less, the Lionel seaboard is $199 or less. The MTH has a new
and well designed chute gate but needs a retrofit to speed the bucket
up. The MTH log loader is $199 or less.
> Thanks alot,
> Alex(innotron)
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17145 From: Horn, David Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: 360 PA can conversion
Sorry no pics. I haven't a digi-cam yet, and frankly guys I only get to
play trains at night (usually pretty late), so presently it's enough for me
to take a few notes and get the job done. If anyone wants to provide me the
means to retire 15-20 years early I'd be glad to spend more time on toy
trains and take pictures along the way :>

For the parts, I called Fred Jester and simply started to tell him what I
wanted to do. He knew right away since he'd done the same to several of his
ACG diesels with great results - - "say what they may about Lionel Flyer,
but these things work". Fred recommended I buy two complete power units
(rather than convert ACG or LTI chassis piecemeal) and the PCB with reverse
unit. We never talked part numbers. He just knew what I wanted, but he
warned that there'd be no wiring diagram sent. That's where my (4)8114 came
in handy as an example to follow, but the wiring logic is pretty
straightforward once you start doing it. I don't have Fred's phone
number(s) with me at work, but he advertises in S-Gaugian and always has a
great display of parts at York. I did grab my book on 1979-1991 LTI Flyer
on my way out the door this morning. Here's what I believe the part numbers
would be - - 40-0106-001 E-Unit (for dual motor engines) $37.00, 40-8251-100
Motor truck assembly (without side frames, washers, lock ring) $67.50 each,
plus $5.00 shipping. I have the P/N's for the breakdown of it all too if
you'd want all that, or look on pages 7 and 8 of Greenberg's S-Gauge
American Flyer 1979-1991 Parts List and Exploded Diagram book. Using a
bridge with the ACG rev unit would save you some money, and possilby buying
only the parts you need to convert an ACG or LTI chassis to cans would too,
but like I said, after all I'd already been through with this engine I went
"whole hog". IMHO it was worth it.

Oh, and yes it is easy to convert back to original trucks and 4-position
reverse unit if you'd ever want to. Charlie, try eBay for that observation
car, something tells me there's been one or two on there, but I haven't been
looking specifically. Also, ask around - - Marty's trains, Mark Preman,
Train City, Port Lines, Leventon, Triple-S, etc.. Hope you find one.

Happy Rails,

Dave
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17146 From: David Dewey Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Re: accessories
Alex,
Yes to both questions. For the money, the Sawmill is less than half the
price of the log loader. The log loader is fun though, especially if you
have a log dump car! Tough call!!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17147 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Re: DC Trolleys
Fred,
Pennsylvania was one of the very few (maybe only) state(s) to run broad or
trolley gauge tracks. The late, great Pennsylvania Railroad had so much
influence in Harris-
burg, the state capitol, that they had a law passed REQUIRING trolley tracks
to be non-compatible with railroad tracks. The trolley guys, could not,
then, deliver freight cars unless they were their own and someone transferred
the load. Hence "Pennsylvania Broad Gauge" trolleys. Gauge was 5'-2 1/2".
Ingenious, huh.
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17148 From: David Dewey Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Re: 360 PA can conversion
The 79-91 part numbers aren't the same as what is used now. The can motors
won't fit the pre '91 truck chassis mounts! Found out the hard way.
Charlie, buy a "junker" obs car and paint it silver, use some HO decals
to letter it, then semi-gloss coat it to seal them from peeling off! Or you
could check eBay, they are around.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17149 From: David Dewey Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Re: DC Trolleys
Sounds like the same reasons that BART is wide gauge too. Sure makes buying
rail-wheeled equipment expensive! I think there was also some claim for
stability on high-speed curves in the BART decision. I understand it is
somewhat regretted now.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17150 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Charlie can be helped
Charlie can be helped in his quest for his WP Obs car. He needs a UP obs
car #6-48907 to trade a guy in FLA that has 4 of the WP but only wants to
trade. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17151 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Louisville GATS
Hi Everyone!
Had another very good show this weekend in Louisville Ky. We set up Friday
evening so we could sleep late on Saturday morning. The wife is still
recovering from the flu. I was asked to show up at 6 AM to run the layout and
do an interview with the Saturday morning guy Chris Phillips of channel 11.
So, I woke up at 5:20 AM, showered and walked to the convention center from
the hotel.
They took quite a bit of footage over a 3 hour period of the layout. My
interview lasted about 5 minutes total. Twice on the air live. Got to explain
why S-GAUGE was the best size to have and how popular it is compared to the
rest.
I had one unsettling moment though. I was explaining to a guy that he should
let his kid play with the AF he has. He tells me "no way, they're to
valuable." Are you going to sell them I ask? "No" he says. I tell him they
aren't worth the money that was paid for them then if they are sitting in a
box. They are only worth the money someone gives you for them. "I don't want
him to break them" the guy says.
So I go on to tell him about the number of times I had run my 336 off the
table onto a concrete floor as a kid in my parents basement. He is looking at
me like I'm of full of BS.
In the meantime, I've been placing my 336 on a couple of sections of
Gargraves on the table behind the layout. I'm getting ready to show him how
well my 336 runs with the new can motor conversion with the flywheel I have.
I hook up the transformer still talking to the guy and keeping an eye out on
the layout. I bend over to plug in the transformer and I hear; choo choo choo
choo choo choo thump. I know what happened before even looking up. I hear
about 10 voices gasping and going oh sh....
I get up laughing at myself thinking, "you moron."
This guy can't believe what he just saw. I pick it up and look it over. One
little chip off the boiler front at the top. In fact, I almost missed it. I
set it on the track again. This time, I made sure the transformer was off and
plugged it in. Turned it on and it ran like a top.
Everyone was impressed! The guy says to me, "I think I'll let my boy play
with the trains now."
This was not staged at all. But, I'm thinking about doing it at all the
shows. What a great demo!!!!! OK, I'm not really thinking about doing that
again. I'm kidding.
I did meet a lot of closet S-Gaugers and sold all 7 of the can motors with
flywheels I had.
It is obvious that we need more portable layouts at these train shows with
S-GAUGE. When they see 2 trains running on a 4X 8 layout, with all the action
going on, they realize they do have room for this gauge. We came in third
place with 3 other layouts. First place was a N-Scale modular layout with 3
groups of N trackers. It was quite impressive.
We beat out 3 HO modular railroads which were very nice. We tied with a huge
Lego layout by a 10 year old and a Lionel modular layout. The kid that has
the Lego layout is the one who's dad wouldn't let him play with his Flyer
trains. Maybe next year there will be another new S-Gauger with an S-GAUGE
layout instead of LEGOs Never take life seriously.
Nobody gets out alive anyway.

THE TRAINNUT
CHRIS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17152 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Portable Layout
I have been meaning to do a little report along with a photo or two. I have been unable to load the photos. So the report follows.

In the early part of Dec. One of our local county libraries (Greensboro, Maryland) was holding a train show with operating layouts. I was asked if I could participate with some S gauge. I had been putting together a small 4X6 layout for this show. It included an oval and some switches and a siding. Operating accessories included a mail car and a barrel loader. I literally ran the wheels off a 322 and 302. But the 293 with the new can motor ran great.

There were 3 O gauge, 1 N gauge, 2 HO gauge and my S.
MTH was also there selling some starter sets. The show was over a Sat. and Sun. for 10:00-3:00 each day. We had about 400 visitors on Sat. and over 1000 on Sunday. Needless to say we were keep busy as the mail car and barrel loader were the main attractions. Besides, I was set up so the kids could operate them. I had as much fun as they did.

The show is being planned again for next year, I plan on enlarging the layout and hope to have some printed material on S as there were a lot of questions about availability and parts.

Jim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17153 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Re: Portable Layout
Jim, be sure to get in touch with the NASG. They will send you material for
your shows. I find people really like the information they sent me for my show
hand outs.
Howard Sheffield

>I have been meaning to do a little report along with a photo or two. I have
been unable to load the photos. So the report follows.
>
>In the early part of Dec. One of our local county libraries (Greensboro, Maryland)
was holding a train show with operating layouts. I was asked if I could participate
with some S gauge. I had been putting together a small 4X6 layout for this
show. It included an oval and some switches and a siding. Operating accessories
included a mail car and a barrel loader. I literally ran the wheels off a 322
and 302. But the 293 with the new can motor ran great.
>
>There were 3 O gauge, 1 N gauge, 2 HO gauge and my S.
>MTH was also there selling some starter sets. The show was over a Sat. and
Sun. for 10:00-3:00 each day. We had about 400 visitors on Sat. and over 1000
on Sunday. Needless to say we were keep busy as the mail car and barrel loader
were the main attractions. Besides, I was set up so the kids could operate
them. I had as much fun as they did.
>
>The show is being planned again for next year, I plan on enlarging the layout
and hope to have some printed material on S as there were a lot of questions
about availability and parts.
>
>Jim
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

>
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>
>
>
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17154 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Paint Removal
I have not tried to purposely remove paint, but I had a plastic
engine shell a couple of months ago that was extremely dirty. Being
too lazy to get out the toothbrushes, I decided to clean it in the
dishwasher (when the wife wasn't looking of course). Not only did
all the dirt get washed away, but so did the paint. Has anyone else
tried this approach?

BG1
Group: S-Trains Message: 17155 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Dishwashere to remove paint
I have not tried that yet,but if you ever see an old water pic(toothbrush)at
a yard sale, the do great cleaning out nooks and crannies.A scale pressure
washer! ,



Keith


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Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17156 From: honkelrs Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: AC Value S-Gauge Track
Can anyone onthe list tell me what happened to Ted's Trains & Hobbies in Bentonville, AR ? He was the gentleman that had an inventory of this discontinued track some months back but calls to his phone disclose that it has been disconnected. Alternatively, can anyone tell me where else I might find some of this track. Thanks for the help.

Russ


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17157 From: Don Thompson Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Re: Did I miss something?
Dear Tom,
In our next SHS Update we will start to take orders for some new 40'
wooden Billboard reefers. Past runs have been very popular and sell out
quickly. I think Robin said she sold the last Tivoli Beer and NWX gray
cars this weekend.
We will be offering four new single reefers: Borden's Cheese (red,
white and blue car with script lettering), Pabst-ett Malt Syrup and Blue
Ribbon Beer (yellow with red/white/green logo and black lettering),
Grand Union Food Market (green with yellow lettering) and Walker's
Austex Chile Co.'s Mexene Chili Powder Seasoning's (yellow with large
red panel with inset cameo and chili powder can featuring devil stirring
a chili pot - photo of this car courtesy of Bob Werre and Jack Troxel).
We also are expecting one set of three different Swift reefers (1.
Yellow with red and white herald, 2. Red with white lettering and
stripes 3. Aluminum car with red and white logo).
These cars are due in April. The single cars are $42.95 and the
Swift 3 car set is $109.95.
Don

kathy/tom Gerbasi wrote:

> I read on the web site that you received painted samples of the next
> run of reefers and rebuilts, but I don't recall seeing what the road
> names were going to be? I could have been zoning out. Please post
> somewhere what these might be, so I can start saving my pennies. Tom
> Gerbasi

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17158 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 2/4/2002
Subject: Accesories
Greetings to all, based on the following accessories...Magnetic Crane,
Sawmill, Log, Coal, Auto and Mail Cars...the grandchildren spend about the
same amount of time with the Sawmill and Crane. The mail car is popular
with the girls, they try to see how many times in a row they can load and
unload without missing. The younger guys like the log dump car as they
build towers and forts and roll the logs into them. They will generally
spend two or three hours, moving from one to another. Perhaps variety is
the key? We also keep a couple of Atlantics and variety of cars that they
build "trains" from...their specials.
Thanks for all the suggestions in the search for a CA Zephyr observation
car. Have been to all the sights indicated, in fact received a list from
Don H. in mail today, but as yet no "luck". eBay had everything but...will
keep looking. If anyone should happen across one please let me know.
Best Wishes, Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 17159 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Re: DISHWASHER Paint Removal
This is not the best solution as I
had a Pennsy gondola in VG
condtion but very dirty so I
put in the dishwasher and it came
out very clean but missing the
lettering so for paint removal it's very good
but for general cleaning not good.

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn
Group: S-Trains Message: 17160 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Winston-Salem GATS
The Carolinas Division of the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers
will be operating their modular layout this weekend at
the Great American Train Show in Winston-Salem, North
Carolina. The show will be located at the Dixie
Fairgrounds and will run from 11 am until 5 pm on both
Saturday and Sunday, February 9 & 10.

This layout will be 25 feet by 25 feet with a T and
two additional yard modules and will feature our new
corner modules using 24 and 29 inch radius S-Helper
Service S-Trax. American Flyer (both original and
K-Line reproduction) track with rubber roadbed and
Gargraves trackage with cork roadbed is used on the
various straight modules. This interactive layout
features over 30 push buttons for the public to
operate all kinds of accessories, including a Country
Fair.

If you are in the area, stop by and say hello.

Joe Haenn

=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17161 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Question/help request
What is the best method for joining two boiler halves together? I
want to experiment with some kit bashing on some trashed boiler shells
I have but I don't want the pot metal to explode. Does anyone here
have any experience with this one? Can the boiler halves be lead
soldered with a torch?
Thanks,
Fred
Group: S-Trains Message: 17162 From: ron inscho Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Re: Question/help request
Epoxie is your best bet & I have used this & while it works it is not the
strongest . This metal is pot metal & can't be soldered so you don't have
much choice.
----- Original Message -----
From: "lbdrummer3" <lbdrummer3@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 10:36 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Question/help request


> What is the best method for joining two boiler halves together? I
> want to experiment with some kit bashing on some trashed boiler shells
> I have but I don't want the pot metal to explode. Does anyone here
> have any experience with this one? Can the boiler halves be lead
> soldered with a torch?
> Thanks,
> Fred
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17163 From: David Dewey Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Re: Question/help request
Fred,
That would be melt-down city! I think an epoxy would be the way to go,
but I will defer to those who have done more of this!
S'

David D.
PS I have heard of "welding" pot-metal using a torch, sacraficial metal, and
a stainless rod to "stir" the parts together--but I believe the process
requires a LOT of practice first!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17164 From: Scott Holm Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Adding Smoke to a Docksider
I was able to add smoke to a 21156 Docksider. The hard part about doing
this was just finding out what parts were needed since the exploded
diagram and parts list for the Docksider don't list all of them.
Hopefully this will answer what parts are needed and where they can be
obtained. Some of the parts came from Doug Peck and a few key parts,
including both gears, came from Hobby Surplus. here is their page with
the parts for online ordering:

http://www.hobbysurplus.com/amercianflyerdb.asp?PageNo=15

I got the smoke unit assembly off John Heck's junk table. The element
was not working, so a replacement was obtained from Doug Peck. Triple S
also has them for sale on their web site. This smoke unit is the AF HO
version and is also in the Franklin engine.

You will need the following:
Smoke unit XA13B445 (Triple S - $40, http://www.ssstrains.com)
Replacement element if no good (Peck)
Piston P10053 (Peck)
Piston pin P10057 (Peck)
Piston rod P10052 (HS)
Stud to hold rod to gear *P10045 (Peck)
Gear with hole to mount piston rod PA15019 (HS)
Stud to mount gear to chassis PA15A021 (Peck)
Gear for middle axle to drive above gear PA15018 (HS - They call it a
worm grear)
Brass chimney P10174(Peck)
Screw to mount smoke unit to chassis (4/40 - 3/8")

*The P10045 stud kept falling out, even when glued and then it broke so
I ended up using a miniature bolt 1-72, hollowing out the tip with a
dremel bit and flattening it with a punch so it's like a rivet.

Hope this helps to smoke up your dock.
Scott "Lenny Stewart" Holm


--- ron inscho <ronnat@...> wrote:
> there is or should be a gear on the center axel that connects to
> another gear above it and this gear is held on by a pin just like on
> the other engines only smaller. I don't know the part number but have
> tried to find both of these gears for many years & never had any
> luck.


__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17165 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Get the word out.
S-Gaugers,
I found a website that is devoted to all gauges/scales of model
railroading. When I went into the S Gauge page, I found that it is
blank, supposedly awaiting information to be inputted from S gauge or S
scale modelers. The website is linked below for anyone who would like
to contribute S gauge material to it. It might be a good way to get the
word about S gauge out to others who might be interested in S gauge.
http://www.thortrains.net/
We might just find some potential S gauge/scale people out there.
W. Thomas Boussum

"If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch you must begin by
creating the universe." Carl Sagan in "Cosmos."
Group: S-Trains Message: 17166 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Re: Get the word out.
Hi Tom,

We have been asking this guy for three years
to show more S. He wants us to send him trains
and track, he then builds a layout and
photographs it. That's why there
isn't much S. If you go to his guest
book you will see comments by
Dave Dewey, myself and others.

My comment is on Page 30 of 50.
It was sent on 9/11/2000. He never
did enter the NASG website.

http://www.thortrains.net/

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn
Group: S-Trains Message: 17167 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Sorry about my previous post.
S Gaugers,
I sent posted an email about a website who supposedly posts
information on all gauges. It was only after Glenn Ritter sent me the
enclosed note that I found out that the guy wants us to send him
equipment. Quite a racket he has going there.
I'm sorry for sending the note in the first place. Please
disregard it.
Thanks.
W. Thomas Boussum

"If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch you must begin by
creating the universe." Carl Sagan in "Cosmos."

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Glenn Ritter wrote:

Hi Tom,

We have been asking this guy for three years
to show more S. He wants us to send him trains
and track, he then builds a layout and
photographs it. That's why there
isn't much S. If you go to his guest
book you will see comments by
Dave Dewey, myself and others.

My comment is on Page 30 of 50.
It was sent on 9/11/2000. He never
did enter the NASG website.

http://www.thortrains.net/

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17168 From: af21115 Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Information Underload
Now here is a dreamer. Check out this Buy It Now amount....WOW!

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1701352721
Group: S-Trains Message: 17169 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Re: Question/help request
Just in case anyone is interested in the rod I have, here is the info on the
package.

Name: HTS-735 II Fluxless brazing rod
735 degree bond temperature, 717-728 degree melting temp.
45,000 psi tensile strength
Use for repair of zinc and aluminum alloys
Can bridge holes up to 1/4" without dropping through
Lots of other physical properties listed.

Instructions for galvanized steel and pot metals: work immediately in the flame
without preheating the work surface. Surfaces will melt and the rod melts in
with them. Pot metal requires some practice before attempting repairs.

Re-order from:

United Marketing, P.O. Box 1428, Great Bend, KS 67530
316-792-1901 or 800-666-1901

$39.95/lb.

Don't know if it would work, or if the company is still in business, but you
have the info anyway.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


ron inscho wrote:

> I have used this kind of rod & yes it works on aluminum but I could not get
> it to stick to the metal. The Gilbert recipe of this pot metal is strange
> it takes lots of heat before it will melt & then it melts too poorly to
> solder to , Good luck & keep ME /us posted.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@...>
> To: "ron inscho" <ronnat@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 12:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Question/help request
>
> > I have some rod I bought at a home show several years back that is
> supposed to be
> > able to "weld" (braze or solder is closer) things like aluminum and pot
> metal. It is
> > used with a common propane torch. I used them on an aluminum boat to
> patch a couple
> > small holes and it worked fine. I can try to remember to look look for
> the vendor
> > info on them tonight.
> >
> > Roger Petrella
> > Franktown, CO
> >
> >
> > ron inscho wrote:
> >
> > > Epoxie is your best bet & I have used this & while it works it is not
> the
> > > strongest . This metal is pot metal & can't be soldered so you don't
> have
> > > much choice.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "lbdrummer3" <lbdrummer3@...>
> > > To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 10:36 AM
> > > Subject: [S-Trains] Question/help request
> > >
> > > > What is the best method for joining two boiler halves together? I
> > > > want to experiment with some kit bashing on some trashed boiler shells
> > > > I have but I don't want the pot metal to explode. Does anyone here
> > > > have any experience with this one? Can the boiler halves be lead
> > > > soldered with a torch?
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Fred
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> > > >
> > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > > s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> > >
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> >
Group: S-Trains Message: 17170 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: joining white metal (was Question/help request)
You can't solder white metal. While you might get it to stick together, it
would only be held by the solder's following intimately and interlocking
with the two surfaces. The solder would not bond to the white metal.
Therefore the bond would be too weak for your purposes.

You can get white metal electroplated with copper, and then you can solder
brass detail parts to it. This was Bernie Thomas' method used in his
legendary 0-8-0 conversion in the S Gauge Herald. I do not know if this
bond would be strong enough to join two boiler halves together.

Your practical choice is between ACC and epoxy cements. Probably most
modelers choose epoxy for this job. It has been used this way for many
years with great success. Epoxy does not age well; it tends to shrink and
lose adhesion. In fact, it can sometimes get kinda gross over a period of
years. Any epoxied joints should be carefully sealed with paint on all
sides. Its advantage is that fillets can be run with it to add strength
and support to the joint, whereas ACC pretty much just fills the gap
between the two surfaces.

I am convinced that you can get a stronger, longer lasting bond by using
high quality ACC such as ZAP. and then laminating a piece of thin styrene,
ABS, or even metal sheet, over or under the joint, with more ACC. This
supports in the same way that the excess bulk of epoxy does. It can be
sanded smooth when dry if necessary.

Unfortunately, I have no way of measuring or proving the relative strength
of the two methods. But that's my story and...

I'n sticking to it!

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17171 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Re: Information Underload
If those go for the "Buy it Now" price, all mine are going up for auction too. Got
to have at least 50 in a box in storage.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


af21115 wrote:

> Now here is a dreamer. Check out this Buy It Now amount....WOW!
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1701352721
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17172 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Re: Information Underload
Me too! I'll even through in a 90 deg crossover with every two uncouplers.

"Roger V. Petrella Jr." wrote:

> If those go for the "Buy it Now" price, all mine are going up for auction too. Got
> to have at least 50 in a box in storage.
>
> Roger Petrella
> Franktown, CO
>
> af21115 wrote:
>
> > Now here is a dreamer. Check out this Buy It Now amount....WOW!
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1701352721
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17173 From: david_s_garber Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Re: information underload
50 uc for $60.00 is more like it with a quanity discount.strange
things happen on ebay.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17174 From: jmessinger@hotmail.com Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#1700193673: Gilbert American
Check this out! Does a locomotive come with it?

Title of item: Gilbert American Flyer Bottle of Smoke Fluid
Seller: robertcresenzi
Starts: Feb-03-02 09:14:51 PST
Ends: Feb-06-02 09:14:51 PST
Price: Starts at $67.00
To bid on the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1700193673


Item Description:
Mint Full Bottle American Flyer Train Smoke Fluid Measures 4 inches Tall. $3.50 USPS Priority Mail

Visit eBay, The World's Online Marketplace TM at http://www.ebay.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17175 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Re: Question/help request
Fred asks:
>I want to experiment with some kit bashing on some trashed boiler shells
>I have but I don't want the pot metal to explode. Can the boiler halves be
lead
>soldered with a torch?

I though you didn't want them to explode! The crap that these shells were
made of will sputter, pop and disappear under a torch. You'd have better
luck welding two candles together. Use a metal impregnated epoxy cement
like epoxy steel or aluma-poxy. Sleeve the inside of the boiler with some
coiled metal stock and epoxy that in to both shells for strength.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17176 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/5/2002
Subject: Re: Get the word out
W. Thomas Boussum wen to Thor's website and Thor sez:
>John Foley from the NASG sent us a LOAD of literature and a nifty PFE
reefer.

Is this Thorin Marty, from our list? I don't think so. He'd have enough S
equipment. This guy wants people to send him trains. For free. And they
are. Now, why didn't I think of that? I'm so stupid.

Chris Zizzo

"If you want to scratch the surface of the universe, you should first stop
and have some fresh baked apple pie." -- Grandma Zizzo in "Brooklyn."
Group: S-Trains Message: 17177 From: royhoffman Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Re: Sorry about my previous post.
Thomas,

Don't be too hard on yourself. For every person like Thor, there's a
hundred honest people doing web sites for the sheer love of model
railroading. They don't ask for trains, either!

Please, don't give up spreading the word when you come across a site
that might help our cause.

Roy

--- In S-Trains@y..., "W. Thomas Boussum" <euler@s...> wrote:
> S Gaugers,
> I sent posted an email about a website who supposedly posts
> information on all gauges. It was only after Glenn Ritter sent me
the
> enclosed note that I found out that the guy wants us to send him
> equipment. Quite a racket he has going there.
> I'm sorry for sending the note in the first place. Please
> disregard it.
> Thanks.
> W. Thomas Boussum
>
> "If you want to bake BILLLLLIONS and BILLLLIONS of apple pies from
scratch you must begin by creating the universe." Carl Sagan in
"Cosmos."
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17178 From: joeawood@aol.com Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Circus Set
If you havent seen it this one is worth a look, just to see how pretty they
were brand new. Item #1699090290 Not for the meek or weak stomach when you
see the price. It would be nice to know the whole story surronding this set.
Joe


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17179 From: Knight, Gene Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Circus Set
Joe,

I agree with you about the Circus Set....how interesting the story would
be. I can't imagine having something like that and never touched. Maybe
the original owner knew one day that AF would be collectable. Wonder if
the seller would send it to me if I posted a picture of it on a webpage
;)

Gene
Group: S-Trains Message: 17180 From: David Dewey Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Re: Circus Set - YOICKS!
Yeah, it is pretty, but right now at $4,850.00, and hasn't met reserve!!
YOICKS!!! This set sold new for around $28-$32, hmm, has there been this
much inflation??? ;-)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17181 From: Roy E. Plotnick Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Japanese S-gauge set on Ebay
A set of the S-gauge Japanese train discussed a few weeks ago is for sale at:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1700457843
Someone indicated earlier they thought the manufacturer was Sakai. -Roy

Roy E. Plotnick
Professor
Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences
University of Illinois at Chicago
845 W. Taylor St.
Chicago, IL 60607
plotnick@...
office phone: 312-996-2111 fax: 312-413-2279
lab phone: 312-355-1342
web page: http://www.uic.edu/~plotnick/plotnick.htm
"The scientific celebrities, forgetting their molluscs and
glacial periods, gossiped about art, while devoting themselves to
oysters and ices with characteristic energy.." -Little Women, Louisa May
Alcott
Group: S-Trains Message: 17182 From: Doug Peck Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Re: Uncouplers
<<<50 uc for $60.00 is more like it with a quanity discount.strange
things happen on ebay.>>>>

Anyone who wants to sell me 50 working RC uncouplers for $60, including
buttons, let me know. I'll pay it, and I won't ask for a quantity discount
either!!!!
<G>

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supplies
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please).
http://www.portlines.com/
portlines@...
VISA --MC--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted.
NEW ! View our entire AF Parts Catalog, as well as Equipment Sales
Inventories On-Line !!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17183 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Japanese S-gauge set on Ebay
Very Interesting! Track looks like
a Gilbert knock off only 3 ties to save
money. Large scale? hard to tell
without a ruler. Buyer beware.

Glenn

"Roy E. Plotnick" wrote:
A set of the S-gauge Japanese train discussed
a few weeks ago is for sale at:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1700457843
Someone indicated earlier they thought
the manufacturer was Sakai. -Roy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17184 From: Roy E. Plotnick Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Japanese S-gauge set on Ebay
At 04:35 PM 2/6/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Very Interesting! Track looks like
>a Gilbert knock off only 3 ties to save
>money. Large scale? hard to tell
>without a ruler. Buyer beware.
>
>Glenn

The trains do fit on AF rack and v.v. I suspect they mistook "S-gauge" for
"Standard Gauge." The actual cars are closer to HO in size.
-Roy
Group: S-Trains Message: 17185 From: aglorince Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: train shows cleveland and pittsburgh
Feb 10, 10 am to 230pm parma oh highschool (near cleveland) state
street south from I-480 12 lights and two blocks longwood street.

feb 23-24 10 am to 4 pm both days. greenberg great trainshow.
monroeville (Pittsburgh), pa expo mart 2 miles west buisness route 22
from pa turnpike exit 6.


i will be attending both these shows with american models s gauge and
some ho.
andrew g. lorince
alorince@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 17186 From: Mike Vana Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Joining Pot Metal
"lbdrummer3" <lbdrummer3@...> asked:

What is the best method for joining two boiler halves together? I
want to experiment with some kit bashing on some trashed boiler shells
I have but I don't want the pot metal to explode. Does anyone here
have any experience with this one? Can the boiler halves be lead
soldered with a torch?


Once at a train meet many years ago, a guy claimed he could "weld"
pot metal because he made his brazing rod out of it. I've often
wondered if it worked. Maybe someone here on the list can determine
if the guy's claim was valid. I'm not a welder; where would one
even buy or make a pot metal brazing rod?

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17187 From: jerryfish@worldnet.att.net Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Re: Japanese S-gauge set on Ebay
The Track Looks like Marx W/U track.

Jerry Fish
> Very Interesting! Track looks like
> a Gilbert knock off only 3 ties to save
> money. Large scale? hard to tell
> without a ruler. Buyer beware.
>
> Glenn
>
> "Roy E. Plotnick" wrote:
> A set of the S-gauge Japanese train discussed
> a few weeks ago is for sale at:
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=17
00457843
> Someone indicated earlier they thought
> the manufacturer was Sakai. -Roy
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17188 From: Mark Preman Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
The new list is posted at:
http://www.americanflyertrains.com

This list includes a magnificent link era collection,
a whole bunch of TCA and NASG cars and........
introducing the NEW PRODUCTS PAGE!

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17189 From: TED R LARSON Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Fw: clear coat for decals and windows
This info is from the freight car list. Not sure that I got all the
comments, but this much gives some indication of answers I have not
previously seen to problems that I AM familiar with. Perhaps some other
list readers know more about this product and its use?

Ted Larson
When climbing the ladder of success,
make sure you know which building it is leaning on!



Subject: Re: PRESERVING THOSE MICRO DRY INKED DECALS

The ALPS decal users group has had many members state
having Excellent results with FUTURE brand of acrylic floor
finish
(don't call it wax) as something that applies with a sponge
throw away
brush, flows nicely, and never yellows (like Ipana?). One
bottle is a lifetime
supply. Use it as a clear coat protector of sheets of
decals, or use it
as a model finish clear. Andy

Jim Hayes wrote:

I was planning to use Future as an adhesive for passenger car
windows. Then I read that Future does yellow. And I found a bottle of
Future on the back of my cleaning products shelf. It's of unknown age
and is as yellow as a human waste product.

Jim, walk over to the other side of the hobby shop and talk to the
serious scale aircraft modelers. They've been using the stuff for
years to enhance kit aircraft canopies (that is, ones that aren't
available as vacuum formed, or for those who don't have a Mattel Vac-
u-Form to make their own). The basic process is to polish out a kit
canopy by wet sanding using progressively finer grades of sandpaper,
then finishing the canopy using a couple coats of Future. I've never
seen any cases of yellowing over time.

Ben Hom
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

There is an ALPS Decal usergroup which has over 1000 registered
members.
I have laboriously gone over 2500 former postings after I bought my
ALPS printer. There were quite a few postings about flaking problems and
other concerns about a protective clear coating. Dozens of responders
offered their recommendation of Future for this purpose. Several of the
respondants have used this acrylic finnish with great success for a long
time. Seems that quite a few Aircraft modelers have known about this
product for years. As might be expected, there were some doubters who
posted dissagrements who had never tried it themselves. I don't recall
any postings of former users warning against the use. I supplied my
first post on this because this tip from ALPS Decal makers themselves
was enthusiastically shared.
Andy
Group: S-Trains Message: 17190 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Re: FARM SET ALSO!!!!
THE LATEST TCA BOOKLET HAS A 5001 FARM SET...NIB...6500.00....I BET THE
CIRCUS SET GOES TO ABOUT 6381.82...WHO WILL PUT UP THE PRIZE FOR THIS
POOL???? BTW....I'M OUT AT 3505.00.....BOB
Group: S-Trains Message: 17191 From: The Reis's Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Best of both worlds engine project.
This last weekends project:

Take 1 dead Flyer 310 Pacific, strip out the motor, reverse unit and wiring.

Add 1 Steve Blackburn conversion motor unit to the Boiler.

Add 1 S Helper e-reverse unit from an SW-9.

Wire up using the color code provided in the SW-9 manual including the
Reversible headlight. Just a little soldering and direction following.


Result: One very clean running Steam loco without all the flyer reverse
unit and motor problems.

Cost: about $50 (ok the e-reverse unit was about $22 on ebay) plus the old
pacific. About $85 total.

I know, its really only an AC high rail thing but there are some of us that
still use that.

I have about an hour running time on it with no problems. The only
questions would be for Don T. as to weather I may be overloading the e-unit
at all. And for Steve, now you know what the second motor was for. The first
one in the 312 with the original reverse unit (actually a second reverse
unit now) still has reverse unit problems. Hmmmmm maybe another e-unit.


Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa.
Where the Rain keeps on Raining on.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17192 From: Don Thompson Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Re: Best of both worlds engine project.
Dear Eric,
Very interesting. Let us know how you make out.
Don

The Reis's wrote:

> This last weekends project:
>
> Take 1 dead Flyer 310 Pacific, strip out the motor, reverse unit and wiring.
>
> Add 1 Steve Blackburn conversion motor unit to the Boiler.
>
> Add 1 S Helper e-reverse unit from an SW-9.
>
> Wire up using the color code provided in the SW-9 manual including the
> Reversible headlight. Just a little soldering and direction following.
>
> Result: One very clean running Steam loco without all the flyer reverse
> unit and motor problems.
>
> Cost: about $50 (ok the e-reverse unit was about $22 on ebay) plus the old
> pacific. About $85 total.
>
> I know, its really only an AC high rail thing but there are some of us that
> still use that.
>
> I have about an hour running time on it with no problems. The only
> questions would be for Don T. as to weather I may be overloading the e-unit
> at all. And for Steve, now you know what the second motor was for. The first
> one in the 312 with the original reverse unit (actually a second reverse
> unit now) still has reverse unit problems. Hmmmmm maybe another e-unit.
>
> Eric Reis
> Kenmore, Wa.
> Where the Rain keeps on Raining on.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 17193 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/6/2002
Subject: Re: Japanese S-gauge set on Ebay
Well Glory Be!
I always wondered where that little green flat car of mine with the stake
sides came from. All questions evenually get answered I suppose.
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17194 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: train shows cleveland and pittsburgh
We will be attending the Gats show in Columbus on Feb 23-24.
Tom D
----- Original Message -----
From: "aglorince" <alorince@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 7:23 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] train shows cleveland and pittsburgh


> Feb 10, 10 am to 230pm parma oh highschool (near cleveland) state
> street south from I-480 12 lights and two blocks longwood street.
>
> feb 23-24 10 am to 4 pm both days. greenberg great trainshow.
> monroeville (Pittsburgh), pa expo mart 2 miles west buisness route 22
> from pa turnpike exit 6.
>
>
> i will be attending both these shows with american models s gauge and
> some ho.
> andrew g. lorince
> alorince@...
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17195 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Commerical Announcement-The Next 2 Corgi PCCs
To all you folks who have an interest in traction in the Balitmore and Brooklyn areas- IT'S NOW OFFICIAL CORGI HAS ANNOUNCED TODAY THAT THE NEXT 2 CARS WILL BE PAINT SCHEMES FROM THOSE 2 CITIES. The prototype model photos and details have been added to our web site. We have been working on this with them for the past 18 months in response to the many folks who ave been asking for these at every show we have attended. Powered versions willl be available as well as the unpowered static models. Just don't wait too long! Remember- These are limited to 1750 piece runs. When they are sold out, the price goes up real fast and procurement turns into an "Easter Egg Hunt".

We will be accepting reservations shortly and our pricing will be very competitive.

Tom Doherty
Pennsylvania Heritage Models, Ltd.
http://www.paheritagemodels.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17196 From: Horn, David Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: "old" LTI, new LTI time line
One of the joys of this hobby is the more you pursue it the more you find
there is to learn about it. With that in mind, my recent 360 conversion to
LTI can motors has surfaced an apparent break point in Lionel AF can drive
train part numbers, configuration/compatibility, and possibly performance.
{I mention performance because despite the fact my 360 now runs like a
dream, it isn't quite as ferociously fast as my (4)8114 NP PA. So I'm
wondering if the power units and/or rev-unit I used might be of a different
"vintage" than the NP set made in 1992. On the other hand, the 360 has not
yet seen the track time the NP unit has so maybe it's too early to tell.}

Anyway, I'd like to know more about the different Lionel AF "eras" and would
appreciate your help in putting together a time line for them if we can.
I'm aware that Lionel initially reissued the open-frame motor system like
Gilbert had used, then switched to cans, but it sounds like they might also
have tweaked the can system as well at some point.

Here's a straw-man time line, please edit, enhance, correct it as you see
fit. Maybe it would help make this a more useful reference if part numbers,
or part number ranges, for key drive train components were included during
certain years. Thanks.

1979-1982 Lionel AF diesels issued with electronic reverse, and Gilbert-like
open frame motors.
1982-1991 Lionel AF diesels issued with electronic reverse, and can motor
drive trains.
1991-2002 Lionel AF ................

Happy Rails,

Dave

PS Does anyone know of a reference book with exploded diagrams for Lionel
AF 1991-present? I have the Greenberg book that covers 1979-1991, but would
like a more recent version too if that's available. Thanks.

The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17197 From: joe messinger Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Whistle signals?
Does anyone know the meaning of the whistle/air horn signals that are, or
were, used in railroading? For example, the long-long-short-long signal
that we associate with a steam train rolling along at speed. Two-short-
blasts (I think) are used as a train is starting to roll out of a station,
etc.

I wonder if whistle signals are used as much today as they were in years
past? Perhaps with modern radio/computer equipped locomotives it's not
necessary to have as many whistle signals?

Just curious. The other day, my son asked me what the whistle signals meant
and I didn't have a very good answer for him.

Thanks,

Joe Messinger




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Group: S-Trains Message: 17198 From: Horn, David Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Joining boiler shells
A member of the Baltimore Area AF Club (BAAFC) showed me a couple of engines
he built back in the '60's-'70's by joining AF steamer boiler shells and
articulating drive trains. I think he has a 4-6-6-4 Challenger (true
Challenger) and a streamlined N&W Northern he created using a 35X shell
front-end and 33X back-end. Anyway, they're great looking and still run
very well. He joined the boiler sections by splicing in a section of pipe
between the shell sections and epoxy to hold the whole thing together. I
don't know what epoxy he used, but if I were to attempt this today, I'd use
JB Weld. It is metal impregnated, lasts forever, can be ground, drilled,
etc, and is oil resistant. Our local Home Depot is now selling it on their
rack of super glues, etc.
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17199 From: David Dewey Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: "old" LTI, new LTI time line
Dave,
One thing not mentioned, but maybe it is implied, is the early
open-frame motors are AC motors using a double-wound field, and the
electronic reverse unit in them is unique to that system--it does not put
out DC, as the can motor units do.
Sure wish those early motor parts were available! Imagine; brand new
armatures for your ACG locos!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17200 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Check out Rules and Regulations - Operating Department - 8/1/1904
<A HREF="http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rock_island/rb1904b.htm">Click here: Rules and Regulations - Operating Department - 8/1/1904</A> Found
this when I did a search for steam whistle signals. Should help answer those
questions. I just might print a copy for me.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17201 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: Joining boiler shells
Now David, That's the kind of art that's been lost in today's modeling,
especially for us ri-railers (we less than scratch builder toolmarker
types).Can you forward this man's name to try and get some of his
knowledge spread around to use. Thanks, this is where the wonderment of
this hobby comes to life for me.

On Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:56:18 -0500 "Horn, David"
<david.horn@...> writes:
> A member of the Baltimore Area AF Club (BAAFC) showed me a couple of
> engines
> he built back in the '60's-'70's by joining AF steamer boiler shells
> and
> articulating drive trains. I think he has a 4-6-6-4 Challenger
> (true
> Challenger) and a streamlined N&W Northern he created using a 35X
> shell
> front-end and 33X back-end. Anyway, they're great looking and still
> run
> very well. He joined the boiler sections by splicing in a section
> of pipe
> between the shell sections and epoxy to hold the whole thing
> together. I
> don't know what epoxy he used, but if I were to attempt this today,
> I'd use
> JB Weld. It is metal impregnated, lasts forever, can be ground,
> drilled,
> etc, and is oil resistant. Our local Home Depot is now selling it
> on their
> rack of super glues, etc.
> The information in this message is confidential and is intended
> solely for
> the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility
> for the
> contents of this message, including any attachments. The views
> expressed in
> this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect
> the
> views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you
> are not
> the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST!
> Software, Inc.
> immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all
> copies
> of this message.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17202 From: David Dewey Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: Whistle signals?
Joe,
Dig out your AF operating manual, there's a page on signals there.
Here's a few:
Long Long Short Long: warning to grade crossing, to be blown so the last
whistle at least is done while crossing the crossing. (many engineers added
a quick "toot" at the end as a personal signature)
Short Short: when standing, starting forward
Short Short Short: when standing, starting reverse.
Hmm, I should know more by heart, but that'll do!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17203 From: David Dewey Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Pretty custom paint job on 320 Loco
Saw this photo on eBay, looks real neat to me!
http://www.cableone.net/aztrains/hudson2.jpg

the auction link is:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1699064704

S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17204 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: Whistle signals?
I found the following on the net at
http://www.spikesys.com/Trains/whistle.html

Locomotive Whistle Signals

Chris Coleman webville@...
Oct 22, 1995

Sources:
B&O, C&O Operating Rules, 1969
The Pennsylvania Railroad Book of Rules, 1956

"o" = short sound
"-" = long sound
"___" = sustained sound

o Apply brakes. Stop.
-- Release brakes. Proceed.
-ooo Flagman protect rear of train.
-ooo- Flagman protect adjacent track
---- Eastward or Northward trains recall flagman.
----- Westward or Southward trains recall flagman.
oo Answer to any signal nor otherwise provided for.
ooo When standing - back. When running - stop at next Passenger
Station.
oo____ Answer to flagman's stop signals.
oooo Call for signals.
--o______ Approaching public grade crossings at grade. To be prolonged
or repeated until crossing is reached
_______ Approaching stations, junctions, and railroad crossings at
grade.
o______ Inspect train line for leak or brakes sticking.
succesion
of o's Alarm for persons or livestock on the track.
____o When running on left hand track of a two track section:
(1) Approaching stations, curves, or other points where view
may be obscured;
(2) Approaching passenger or freight trains and when passing
freight trains.
o____ ____Acknowledge train order signal displayed for orders.
o-- To call attention of operator on last block station before
reaching point where stop is to be made for such purpose as man be
provided in the time-table.

-----o Westward or Southward trains recall Flagman on No. 1 track.
----o Eastward or Northward trains recall Flagman on No. 1 track.
-----oo Westward or Southward trains recall Flagman on No. 2 track.
----oo Eastward of Northward trains recall Flagman on No. 2 track.
-----ooo Westward or Southward trains recall Flagman on No. 3 track.
----ooo Eastward or Northward trains recall Flagman on No. 3 track.
-----oooo Westward or Southward trains recall Flagman on No. 4 track.
----oooo Eastward of Northward trains recall Flagman on No. 4 track.

joe messinger wrote:
>
> Does anyone know the meaning of the whistle/air horn signals that are, or
> were, used in railroading? For example, the long-long-short-long signal
> that we associate with a steam train rolling along at speed. Two-short-
> blasts (I think) are used as a train is starting to roll out of a station,
> etc.
>
> I wonder if whistle signals are used as much today as they were in years
> past? Perhaps with modern radio/computer equipped locomotives it's not
> necessary to have as many whistle signals?
>
> Just curious. The other day, my son asked me what the whistle signals meant
> and I didn't have a very good answer for him.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe Messinger
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17205 From: af21115 Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: Whistle signals?
Joe, you and your son should check this site out. Very good reading.

http://steamwhistles.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17206 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: new old stuff
.
Sure wish those early motor parts were available! Imagine; brand new
armatures for your ACG locos!
S'
David D.


Come on David, who needs new old parts when you can use a can motor with a
flywheel? Smoother, Slower, faster,quieter(so you can hear the choo choo
better). And on top of it all, more reliable. That sounds like good train
runnin to me. And it looks just like the original puffing down the track.
Never take life seriously.
Nobody gets out alive anyway.

THE TRAINNUT
CHRIS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17207 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: FARM SET ALSO!!!!
There was a set at Stout's Auction last year that went for $7,000.00 . This
might bring more than that.
Harwood


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17208 From: Michael Christensen Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: Whistle signals?
Hi Joe:

You are right, whistle signals are not used today like
they were in past years, prior to radios, no more
cabooses, and reduced crew size. I was an engineer for
the Illinois Central. Even though we had radios, they
were subject to fail and you would need to use hand
signals or whistle signals to communicate.
Signals such as One Long, Four Short Blasts, which was
to advise the flagman on the rear of the train to
protect the rear of the train ( which meant getting
off the caboose and walking back far enough where a
lantern signal or flag could be seen by a following
train far enough away to stop) are no longer used. My
old rule book as three pages of signals! The
following are what you may hear on the railroad today.

I will use L for a long blast, and S for a short
blast:

SIGNAL MEANING
L L S L Approaching a road crossing.
S Apply brakes - stop.
L L Release brakes - proceed.
S S S When standing - back up.
a long L Approaching a station or jct.
L L S Approaching a meeting point.
many short blasts Alarm for persons or livestock.

reagrds Michael

--- joe messinger <jmessinger@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know the meaning of the whistle/air horn
> signals that are, or
> were, used in railroading? For example, the
> long-long-short-long signal
> that we associate with a steam train rolling along
> at speed. Two-short-
> blasts (I think) are used as a train is starting to
> roll out of a station,
> etc.
>
> I wonder if whistle signals are used as much today
> as they were in years
> past? Perhaps with modern radio/computer equipped
> locomotives it's not
> necessary to have as many whistle signals?
>
> Just curious. The other day, my son asked me what
> the whistle signals meant
> and I didn't have a very good answer for him.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe Messinger
>
>
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print
> your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17209 From: ron inscho Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: Whistle signals?
As a professional Railroader I can tell you yes those whistle signals are
still very much in use today. With the same meanings as back in steam days.
And the same go's for the use of the bell. The whistle signals can be found
in any Railroads Employee timetables from the old days or present time.
There was a time not so long ago when even the general public knew these
whistle signals as trains were a part of everyones life no matter where you
lived. For example most people don't even know there is still a bell on an
engine to day. Just listen the next time you are at a crossing waiting for a
train
----- Original Message -----
From: "joe messinger" <jmessinger@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 10:46 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Whistle signals?


>
> Does anyone know the meaning of the whistle/air horn signals that are, or
> were, used in railroading? For example, the long-long-short-long signal
> that we associate with a steam train rolling along at speed. Two-short-
> blasts (I think) are used as a train is starting to roll out of a station,
> etc.
>
> I wonder if whistle signals are used as much today as they were in years
> past? Perhaps with modern radio/computer equipped locomotives it's not
> necessary to have as many whistle signals?
>
> Just curious. The other day, my son asked me what the whistle signals
meant
> and I didn't have a very good answer for him.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe Messinger
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17210 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: S gauge models and supplies.
While doing a search for fine scale modeling today I discovered a
site that deals with S gauge supplies and kits in New Zealand. On
checking a few of the menu items I concluded that others might want to
see it. The trains are Sn3 and Sn3-1/2, but the vehicles, people, and
others will work with S. The website is provided and linked below

http://www.railmaster.co.nz/

The picture of the narrow gauge locomotive on the web site's home
page looks good. I'm not into narrow gauge myself, but the site is
interesting anyway.
Check it out.
W. Thomas Boussum


"If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch you must begin by
creating the universe." Carl Sagan in "Cosmos."


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17211 From: Scott Holm Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: new old stuff
I think they were talking about diesel here. There are no drop-in can
motor replacements for AF diesel...yet.

--- Cbtrainnut1@... wrote:
> .
> Sure wish those early motor parts were available! Imagine; brand
> new
> armatures for your ACG locos!
> S'
> David D.
>
>
> Come on David, who needs new old parts when you can use a can motor
> with a
> flywheel? Smoother, Slower, faster,quieter(so you can hear the choo
> choo
> better). And on top of it all, more reliable. That sounds like good
> train
> runnin to me. And it looks just like the original puffing down the
> track.
> Never take life seriously.
> Nobody gets out alive anyway.
>
> THE TRAINNUT
> CHRIS
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


__________________________________________________
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Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17212 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: Get the word out
To all:
This is not me. I don't know who this 'Thor' is.

No, I am not soliciting free trains. (I'm no fool -- I wouldn't turn down
free trains.)

Brother? Can you spare a 336?
Thorin

--- Original Message ---
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 00:41:22 -0500
From: Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...>
Subject: Re: Get the word out

W. Thomas Boussum went to Thor's website and Thor sez:
>John Foley from the NASG sent us a LOAD of literature and a nifty PFE
reefer.

Is this Thorin Marty, from our list? I don't think so. He'd have enough S
equipment. This guy wants people to send him trains. For free. And they
are. Now, why didn't I think of that? I'm so stupid.

Chris Zizzo

"If you want to scratch the surface of the universe, you should first stop
and have some fresh baked apple pie." -- Grandma Zizzo in "Brooklyn."




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17213 From: Paul Yorke Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Jax Pictures
Here are a few pictures that I shot last weekend in Jacksonville
Florida.

Robert Conners S Empire
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/robertc/robert_conner.html

Mark Preman selling Flyer at the GATS show.
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/mark/mark_preman.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 17215 From: erierailroad@aol.com Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: Jax Pictures
Any chance we can get Robert Connor to tell us how he built those
articulates? What is the minimum radius they will ride on?

Jack


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17216 From: Steve Blancard Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: Jax Pictures
The articulated is pretty neat, but that Colorado & Southern 2-6-0 is cute as a
button. I 'd love to hear the details about both of them!

Steve Blancard

Paul Yorke wrote:

> Here are a few pictures that I shot last weekend in Jacksonville
> Florida.
>
> Robert Conners S Empire
> http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/robertc/robert_conner.html
>
> Mark Preman selling Flyer at the GATS show.
> http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/mark/mark_preman.html
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17217 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: whitewalls
Some very interesting viewing today -- Paul's posting of Bob Conner's
articulated Flyer locos, and the beautiful repainted 320 on ebay. Very ,
very , very nice work in both cases.

Modifying Flyer steam locos has been mentioned several times on list in the
last few weeks. It is interesting that almost everybody who does this
leaves the white wall tires unpainted.

Logically, if you were trying to make a more realistic loco, the white
walls would be the first thing to go after the "American Flyer Lines".

But it's a hard thing to bring yourself to do. i have several repainted
locos that would probably look much better with those whitewalls painted
black, but can't (or haven't yet) been able to bring myself to do it.

I wonder why.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17218 From: David Dewey Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Chris Z's note on: Get the word out
Chris wrote; ""If you want to scratch the surface of the universe, you
should first stop
and have some fresh baked apple pie." -- Grandma Zizzo in "Brooklyn."



Hmm, I think she's a very wise person! a la mode anyone??
(Don't tell the dietician!!)

S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17219 From: David Dewey Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: whitewalls
Tom & all,
Some railroads painted their tires white. This made it easy to find
cracks starting, or tires shifting. If this sounds confusing, Steam Drive
wheels do have tires. The flanged surface is a ring of metal that is heated
and then driven on the wheel center. When it cools, it SHOULD BE locked
tight. This allows the wear area on the wheels to be replaced. Tires can be
turned a few times before the reach their wear limit. Obviously all drive
tires on a loco should be the same diameter on both sides too! Some diesels
also had tires, and some leading and trailing wheels did too.
The 320 not only has white sidewalls, I noticed the leading wheels had
them added to, looks pretty cool I think! Hmm. . .
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17220 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: whitewalls
In a message dated 2/7/02 9:28:11 PM, jarcho@... writes:

<< Logically, if you were trying to make a more realistic loco, the white
walls would be the first thing to go after the "American Flyer Lines".

But it's a hard thing to bring yourself to do. I have several repainted
locos that would probably look much better with those whitewalls painted
black, but can't (or haven't yet) been able to bring myself to do it.

I wonder why.

Tom Jarcho >>

As done for builder presentation photos, driver white walls are prototypical
. Besides, they are a signature Gilbert feature. You wouldn't paint a
mustache on the 'Mona Lisa', would you? <g>

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 17221 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1317
In a message dated 02/07/2002 7:27:44 PM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> I think they were talking about diesel here. There are no drop-in can
> motor replacements for AF diesel...yet.
>
>

The key word here is YET........Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17222 From: ron inscho Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Fostoria Live!
here's one you will like

http://www.geocities.com/solmst/rail/index.html


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17223 From: David Dewey Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Re: whitewalls
Larry,
That may be, but that's what some RR Roundhouse foremen thought was a
good idea. It does reveal tires that are shifting, however--this is also
important to find! BTW, SP commonly added "clips" on the wheel centers to
keep tires from shifting. One thing I forgot to mention is that the tires
usually have a small lip on their front side so that they seat against the
wheel center.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17224 From: joe messinger Date: 2/7/2002
Subject: Signals-Thanks!
I appreciate all the input and information on whistle signals. The web
sites recommended are great. The interactive site featuring all the
different types of steam whistles was allot of fun. Now, if I can just
remember some of those signals the next time someone asks. . . I'll study
some more!

My thanks to all for "Giving a Toot"!

Regards,

Joe Messinger

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17225 From: Wayne Grinnell Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Hobby Stores
Hello Everyone,
I'm headed to Washington D.C. in April and since my roots are deep in the
Northwest I'm wondering if anyone can tell me if there are any public A.F.
layouts there? Or hobby stores of interest?( Meaning deals with TRAINS) I've
never been east of the Mississippi so this will be my big adventure. I would
appreciate any help in pinpointing Likely places to stop. Many
Thanks,
A long time Listener.
Wayne Grinnell
Pugeasy@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17226 From: joeawood@aol.com Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Fwd: Question for seller -- Item #1699090290 Circus set
Here is the rest of the story. Joe


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17227 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Re: Joining boiler shells
David Horn said:
> I'd use JB Weld. It is metal impregnated, lasts forever, can be ground,
drilled,
>etc, and is oil resistant. Our local Home Depot is now selling it on their
>rack of super glues, etc.

In the paint department, I found. (After scouring hardware and the tool
corral).

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17228 From: drgw489 Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: FS: SHS CB&Q F-3's with sound in both units
Hi All,

Have decided to sell my CB&Q F-3's (I model the Rio Grande).

Have two A-B sets of F-3's, both sets have sound in both units, come
with the sound controllers, scale wheels for conversion to scale,
owner's manual and warranty cards.

One set is mint in the box, was test run back and forth on a
12 foot section of track. The other set has been run about one
hour total.

$450.00 per set, or make an ABBA set for $850.00, plus shipping.
Anyone interested please contact me off list at drgw489@....

Best regards,
Wayne Hills
Group: S-Trains Message: 17229 From: David Dewey Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: A clue as to why CTT doesn't do S stuff much
The editor of CTT posted the following on the TCA message group--note there
is NO mention of any S gauge trackage!! Hmm. . . .
S
David D.

From: Neil Besougloff <nbesougloff@...>
Subject: Re: re:layout size

> As CTT's editor, I'm very fortunate that I can take my work home with me.
I
> have the opportunity to run our product review locomotives (except for the
> O-72 locomotives) in a more real-world setting that provides feedback
> beyond
> our magazine's workshop test track.
>

What does your magazine's track look like at work? Does it have a bare type
layout? Just curious.

Paul Anstett
Member TTOS, TCA, LCCA, LRRC. Hi Paul,

The CTT workshop layout is 5 by 9. It's strictly functional and not meant
to be pretty -- just gray carpet on the top. It has 3 ovals - O-54 tubular
track, large scale track, and O-31 MTH RealTrax (the RealTrax loop has
switches). We also have a separate straight track with six switches from
Lionel, GarGraves, Ross, etc. in different configurations. We assemble
sectional Standard Gauge track and switches on the rare occasions that we
have a Standard Gauge locomotive to test.

We've been in the back rooms at MTH, Williams, Lionel, and 3rd Rail and
they have similar setups. MTH has several test layouts and Lionel's was
notably large. I assume Atlas O and K-Line have similar test facilities.

Since my co-worker Bob Keller (who writes most of the reviews) built his
home layout a few years ago, and with the recent surge in O-72 engines, a
lot of the testing is done on his layout. Bob has 3 mail lines on his jumbo
layout using Atlas O, MTH RealTrax, and tubular track. Two lines are O-72
and one is O-42 and include different-manufacturer switches. Bob also has
an S gauge line using S-Helper track, so we test any S gauge locomotives on
it (We've also got Flyer tubular track at work).

Transformer wise, between work and home layouts we have access to a ZW, an
LW, a Z-4000, 3 different MRC transformers, TMCC with and without IC
Controls boxes, a Right-of-Way transformer, and an Arduk (Lionel-style)
test bench. We have a spaghetti bowl of wires with alligator clips and
banana plugs to swap back and forth between transformers and the test
layout has a built-in amp meter.

We also sometimes run test locomotives on Kent Johnson's layout (Kent is a
Greenberg books editor). Kent has a hi-rail layout (still partly under
construction) modeled after Vancouver, B.C., using GarGraves and Ross with
TMCC.

Your question was simple and I've given you a long answer. Thanks for
keeping with me.

Anyone traveling through the Milwaukee area is welcome to stop by and tour
the Kalmbach building and meet the CTT staff to talk trains for a while. We
give tours year-round M-F during business hours.

Neil Besougloff
editor, CTT
TCA 9745439
Group: S-Trains Message: 17230 From: David Dewey Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: I goofed!! was: A clue as to why CTT doesn't do S stuff much
Bill Clark pointed out to me that S IS mentioned in the note, I'd just
glossed over it. Guess I was just looking for a conspiracy! Sorry all!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17231 From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: [Ad] Latest B.T.S. Products
Howdy Friends

While waiting for the glue to dry on the sample of the new two-stall
engine house, we have finished up several other S Scale projects.



From our assortment of One-Niter Projects, we have added the following:

#03011 Workbench (2) $ 6.95
#03017 Captain's Chair (4) $ 6.50
#03019 Industrial Board Fence
Scale 90' long, 9' high $12.95

See them all at http://www.btsrr.com/btson01.htm

-------------------

And for the freight car lovers.... we have laser-cut upgrades,
interiors, roofwalks, etc., for AM and PRS cars.
http://www.btsrr.com/btsdet01.htm

------------------

Next up, which should be shipping next week....

Red Eye Saloon http://www.master-creations.com/1460.htm

Kee's Chinese Laundry http://www.master-creations.com/1465.htm




Thanks, and take care,
Bill
--
============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================
Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer
Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-643-1105 FAX: 813-681-7326
B.T.S. http://www.btsrr.com
S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com
Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17232 From: Horn, David Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: whitewalls
I purchased an AF 21085 with all black wheels for two reasons - - the road
name (can never remember all the letters in it, but there about 5 or 6), and
the all-black look. Not that I'm crazy about it, just that I wanted to have
an example of it for fun. I much prefer the whitewall. It's part of the
Flyer look or signature, but I have to admit, it's fun once in while to run
the all black loco around. Now as far as why's it hard to paint over
whitewalls, three reasons maybe, 1) you dilute that Flyer moniker, 2) when
you're done it has more of a Lionel (O, or should I say Oh!) look about it
than Flyer, and 3) the all-black plastic wheels were used near the end of
the Gilbert era and may in some ways signal a cheapness or lack of quality
to the trained Flyer eye. Have a great weekend. Run your trains! Dave
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17233 From: pieter_roos Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Re: A clue as to why CTT doesn't do S stuff much
David;

In the middle of the piece, talking about Bob Keller's home layout and
how all O-72 is tested there, appears the followin line:

Bob also has an S gauge line using S-Helper track, so we test any S
gauge locomotives on it (We've also got Flyer tubular track at work).

Sounds like they've got S gauge track to me!

Pieter

--- In S-Trains@y..., "David Dewey" <djdewey@c...> wrote:
> The editor of CTT posted the following on the TCA message
group--note there
> is NO mention of any S gauge trackage!! Hmm. . . .
> S
> David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17234 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Long Island Train Meets
Someone on one of these 2 lists was asking, a few days ago, about Long
Island train shows. I just got a card for one in the mail and thought I'd
post it here.

Chris Zizzo


Northern Spur Train Meet
Held at K of C Hall
400 South Broadway
Lindenhurst, NY 11757

Sunday 2/17/02 8:30 AM-!PM
Admission $3.00 Door Prizes
For more info call 631-666-6855

Next show date is: March 17, 2002
Group: S-Trains Message: 17235 From: bilfrazier Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Reversing unit troubles
I've fought and cursed many AF reversing units, but this one has got
me stumped. Everything seems to be clean and free moving. The
electrical contacts work fine. This is, by the way, a "low mileage"
unit, in nearly new condition in a 494 dual motor Alco.
The problem is, while it works fine at say 15 volts, the coil will
not pick up the plate at lower voltages, so it will not cycle. If you
start the loco at say 10 volts, it will run, and then when you
increase the voltage, the unit will then cycle to neutral. The drum
turns freely, and the ratchet thing drops into place the way I wish
they all did.
Any ideas???

Thanks,

Bill Frazier
Group: S-Trains Message: 17236 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Re: Reversing unit troubles
Bill,

Check the holes where the plate tabs go in. Be sure they are smooth and round. It
doesn't hurt to open them slightly or to also smooth and round the plate tabs. Also,
sometimes bending the brass ratchet a bit makes it move better. I had one I could
find absolutely nothing wrong with but it wouldn't go into reverse no matter what. It
would cycle to every other position though. Seemed like the coil wouldn't
demagnetize and let the plate go. I pushed on the ratchet a bit and bent it slightly
and all of a sudden it started working fine. In fact, I haven't had an e-unit as
reliable as this one ever. Sometimes you just can't figure these things out.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


bilfrazier wrote:

> I've fought and cursed many AF reversing units, but this one has got
> me stumped. Everything seems to be clean and free moving. The
> electrical contacts work fine. This is, by the way, a "low mileage"
> unit, in nearly new condition in a 494 dual motor Alco.
> The problem is, while it works fine at say 15 volts, the coil will
> not pick up the plate at lower voltages, so it will not cycle. If you
> start the loco at say 10 volts, it will run, and then when you
> increase the voltage, the unit will then cycle to neutral. The drum
> turns freely, and the ratchet thing drops into place the way I wish
> they all did.
> Any ideas???
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill Frazier
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17237 From: David Dewey Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Re: Fwd: Question for seller -- Item #1699090290 Circus set
HI all,
Joe asked me to post the attachment he had (since Yahoo doesn't allow
them), giving "the rest of the story" about this set, so here 'tis. Oh to be
so lucky as to find something like this in my folk's storage sheds!
S'
David D.

"I am listing the set for a friend of mine who doesnt have internet access.
The set was purchased new by his father with plans of using on a layout that
never got built. The set was put away in the closet for storage and found
recently by the son who I am listing it for. It has never been run or
tested. One car is missing a box I'm told and one of the end flaps on
another car box is slightly torn. Other than that, its as mint as it gets.

Dave"
Group: S-Trains Message: 17238 From: TED R LARSON Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Vehicles
The 1951 Hudson and 1953 Packard convertible were in stock today at my
local Target.
$1.99
Any questions from S-trains, please reply off-list.

Ted Larson
Space Science Wins Again

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002/01feb_anthrax.htm?list518340

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17239 From: John Foley Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Details for Building
>
>Hi Fellas
> Check out the building details at Alder Models
>http://www.magma.ca/~alder/detailing.html
>I know thye are HO but they may work in S.
>John
Group: S-Trains Message: 17240 From: Gerry Evans Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Details for Building
Since John opened the box-----just got my hands on a catalogue the other
day that probably lists every model ever made anywhere by anyone; that is,
unless it's 1:64--nary a listing.

However, there are page upon page of listings for historic and modern
ship fittings some of which might be very usable for some off-beat modeling
or for use on docks and nautical scenes. These include cannons, ladders,
lights, cleats, block & tackle, tools, guns, davits, horns, turnbuckles,
winches, hinges, and the ever-popular belaying pins. Also, lots of real 1:1
tools.

Try www.modelexpo-online.com/cata

Gerry Evans
In Flagstaff, where the snow flies in Arizona
Group: S-Trains Message: 17241 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, February 10, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains
Group: S-Trains Message: 17242 From: Alex Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Re: Long Island Train Meets
Chris, there's also one coming up in Elmont. Details later.

== Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-.

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Zizzo [mailto:busyboy@...]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 2:48 PM
To: TCA; slist
Subject: [S-Trains] Long Island Train Meets


Someone on one of these 2 lists was asking, a few days ago, about Long
Island train shows. I just got a card for one in the mail and thought I'd
post it here.

Chris Zizzo


Northern Spur Train Meet
Held at K of C Hall
400 South Broadway
Lindenhurst, NY 11757

Sunday 2/17/02 8:30 AM-!PM
Admission $3.00 Door Prizes
For more info call 631-666-6855

Next show date is: March 17, 2002





S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17243 From: yazfacts Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Thanks For The Help.......
To Gerry,Ron,Chuck,
And everyone elso you e-mailed me and helped me fix
my broken A.M. S-12 Baldwin.It turned out to be the spring that is
connected to the driveshaft that came out of the can motor.I called
up A.M. and they were very,very helpful .I put the part order on my
credit card,and I think it came to all of about $12.00 !! It runs
just like it used to ......GREAT !! Thanks again for everyones help
and thanks to A.M. too...........Bob S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17244 From: yazfacts Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Little crank.......
Dear Group,
What exactly does that little crank ( handle ) that
protrudes out of the back of the American Flyer Track Maintenance Car
do ?????? Please post any and all answers.Thanks in advance.....Bob S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17245 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Re: Little crank.......
In a message dated 2/8/02 10:33:57 PM, YAZFACTS@... writes:

<< Dear Group,
What exactly does that little crank ( handle ) that
protrudes out of the back of the American Flyer Track Maintenance Car
do ? >>


It's a hook. In theory, you could pull the tipple cars (that came with the
740A in the 5300T set) with the Track Maintenance Car with a bit of
"futzing". I would expect a tendency for derailment, though.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 17246 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: whitewalls
David Horn sez:
>I purchased an AF 21085 with all black wheels for two reasons - - the road
>name (can never remember all the letters in it, but there about 5 or 6)

NY, NH, & H?
New York, New Haven and Hartford, also known as the New Haven Railroad,

or

C, M, Ste. P & P?
Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul and Pacific, also known as the Milwaukee Road.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17247 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Re: Chris Zizzo's note
NY, NH, & H?
New York, New Haven and Hartford, also known as the New Haven Railroad,

or

C, M, Ste. P & P?
Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul and Pacific, also known as the Milwaukee
Road.

Chris Zizzo

So, how come the 342 didn't have: N.Y.C.& St.L on it?

jfred



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17248 From: John L. Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Re: whitewalls
Original American Flyer track trips to operate crossing lights etc, seem to be quite
expense. Has anyone come up (especially hams in the group) with an electronic one
that could be put together with Radio Shack type parts. Im thinking along the lines
of a photocell electronic relay or a motion detector. Or is there one in the market
place now?. Seems like a lot of crossing signals and other track trip devices seem to
come without the trip switches.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17249 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Fostoria Live!
Hey, this is fun! Never listened to tower talk before. It's just like my
railroad -- things are going wrong all the time!

Gonna try to tape a loop of it and use if for background sound.

Thanks Ron. Does anyone else have favorite railcam or railsound sites?

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17250 From: jahoozdumm Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Re: Japanese S-gauge set on Ebay
Roy E. Plotnick wrote:


>A set of the S-gauge Japanese train discussed a few weeks ago is for
>sale at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?
>ViewItem&item=1700457843 Someone indicated earlier they thought the
>manufacturer was Sakai.


The set in the auction is not Sakai. Sakai did not make S gauge
trains, but did make what were (practically) S SCALE trains (or at
least rolling stock) that ran on 3 rail O gauge track, much like
Gilbert did for a short time.

Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17251 From: ron inscho Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Re: Japanese S-gauge set on Ebay
I have seen the Sakai trains& yes they are O gauge, & look too much like the
3/16 o gauge made by Marx . In fact so much It could be Japanese Marx ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "jahoozdumm" <eighthmile@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 1:32 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Japanese S-gauge set on Ebay


> Roy E. Plotnick wrote:
>
>
> >A set of the S-gauge Japanese train discussed a few weeks ago is for
> >sale at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?
> >ViewItem&item=1700457843 Someone indicated earlier they thought the
> >manufacturer was Sakai.
>
>
> The set in the auction is not Sakai. Sakai did not make S gauge
> trains, but did make what were (practically) S SCALE trains (or at
> least rolling stock) that ran on 3 rail O gauge track, much like
> Gilbert did for a short time.
>
> Chuck F.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17252 From: David Dewey Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Re: Little crank.......
bob,
If you are talking about the 5 digit car, it is a towing hook, although
the instruction sheet enclosed with the car states that it is NOT designed
to pull anything!! Also note on the motor the word "JAPAN" stamped in black
ink. Hmmm. . . .
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17253 From: David Dewey Date: 2/8/2002
Subject: Track trips, was RE:whitewalls
HMMM. . . . .
I could say something about my "hammy" humor. . . BUT!
My solution has been to scrounge through L guys junk boxes of "Lock-ons"
for AF trips that they don't recognize. These seem to be quite cheap!! ;-)
I have heard of the MTH trip that seems to work, but it's not cheap
either!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17254 From: ljack70117@adelphia.net Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: whitewalls
It has been proven that painting the driver tires does not reveal
cracks. If you do not believe me talk to Mr Tony Thompson. He is an
expert on this subject.
Thank you
Larry Jackman

David Dewey wrote:
>
> Tom & all,
> Some railroads painted their tires white. This made it easy to find
> cracks starting, or tires shifting. If this sounds confusing, Steam Drive
> wheels do have tires. The flanged surface is a ring of metal that is heated
> and then driven on the wheel center. When it cools, it SHOULD BE locked
> tight. This allows the wear area on the wheels to be replaced. Tires can be
> turned a few times before the reach their wear limit. Obviously all drive
> tires on a loco should be the same diameter on both sides too! Some diesels
> also had tires, and some leading and trailing wheels did too.
> The 320 not only has white sidewalls, I noticed the leading wheels had
> them added to, looks pretty cool I think! Hmm. . .
> S'
> David D.
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17255 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: whitewalls
See the message below that I received a while back:

I've just designed a new current detector that can be used with
American Flyer trains. (It can be used with AC, DC or DCC control).
I make them at home for $19.95 plus postage. If anyone is interested,
e-mail me at mariancat@...

"John L." wrote:
>
> Original American Flyer track trips to operate crossing lights etc, seem to be quite
> expense. Has anyone come up (especially hams in the group) with an electronic one
> that could be put together with Radio Shack type parts. Im thinking along the lines
> of a photocell electronic relay or a motion detector. Or is there one in the market
> place now?. Seems like a lot of crossing signals and other track trip devices seem to
> come without the trip switches.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17256 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: more on decal message
I just thought I'd add the long-term usefulness of
various topcoats on models. Just before we started
packing to move to VT, I did a major clean/repair of
my ENTIRE model collection.Although it goes back to
the early 60's (earlier models were given to my
cousins long ago-although I still have a Premier Bald
Eagle from about 55 or 56), most aircraft were
repainted to my current standard as time went on. So
the earliest airbrushed, decal system finished models
start in 1973. Micro Scale clear gloss and clear flat
yellowed-the gloss badly, and offered NO protection
against flaking. Testor's clears also yellowed,and
some flaking was present. Rubbing alcohol removed both
brands effectively with NO damage to paint-I use
Humbrol almost exclusively. Floquil exhibits no color
change, only a slight hazing of the clear flat. This
was cured by re-glossing the model and shooting
another coat of flat.Humbrol clears showed NO
yellowing and NO flaking.My train
repaints/restorations go back only 20 years, and no
changes had occurred on them. I use Floquil, Krylon,
and Classic Model train paints with Floquil or Humbrol
topcoats ONLY when I use dry transfers-I prefer rubber
stamping, when stamps are available. I always bake the
finish on metal train subjects.Diecast are prepped for
paint by a light grit blast, tin by TSP or Mr. Muscle
(gone, not forgotten). Both products etch the metal
and really gives the paint some bite-I don't use
primer,it wasn't used originally and softens details.
BTW, boiler shells that are blasted, painted in
Krylon, and baked have suck a hard finish that screws
don't chip the paint. If this helps anyone out, I'm
glad. The brotherhood of trainiacs has an important
bond in the sharing of the total joy of the
hobby.-john marganski

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17257 From: Alex Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] Long Island Train Meets
-----Original Message-----
From: Alex [mailto:alexmm@...]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 9:09 PM
To: 'Chris Zizzo'; 'TCA'; 'slist'
Subject: RE: [S-Trains] Long Island Train Meets


Chris, there's also one coming up in Elmont. Details later.

== Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-.

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Zizzo [mailto:busyboy@...]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 2:48 PM
To: TCA; slist
Subject: [S-Trains] Long Island Train Meets


Someone on one of these 2 lists was asking, a few days ago, about Long
Island train shows. I just got a card for one in the mail and thought I'd
post it here.

Chris Zizzo


Northern Spur Train Meet
Held at K of C Hall
400 South Broadway
Lindenhurst, NY 11757

Sunday 2/17/02 8:30 AM-!PM
Admission $3.00 Door Prizes
For more info call 631-666-6855

Next show date is: March 17, 2002





S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17258 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: test tracks (was A clue as to why CTT...)
So CTT's test tracks are ovals? Including one loop of S-Helper track for
the S gauge items? Hmm.

An oval is a terrible choice of configuration for a test track, because
there are many flaws that it will not expose.

A test track must have curves in both directions, clockwise and counter
clockwise. Either an S curve or a figure 8 are the two obvious choices.

Problems that an oval test track may not show are (a) those that only occur
when the train takes a curve in one direction but not the other, and also
(b) those that occur when a train has to go from curving in one direction
to curving in the other. I hope this is clear.

A few examples include steam loco running gear binding and jamming that may
only show up under the pressure of a curve, flaws in wires or drawbar
between an engine and tender, lead or trailing trucks that have a tendency
to wander, and cars that may not stay on the rails or coupled.

Any locomotive, and especially any worm drive locomotive, should be
carefully checked to make sure it doesn't slow down or strain more curving
in one direction than curving in the other. This is simply not possible on
an oval.

Rolling stock must also be tested through switches, and not just through
the straight route. There are eight possible routes through a pair of
switches. I was recently sent a new item for review ( it shall go nameless
here) and when I put it on my layout, it slammed into the first switch
frog it tried to navigate, and every other switch as well. When I talked
to the manufacturer, it turned out that in all his tests he had never run
it through a single switch!

But there's more to it than that. Two other areas need to be examined as
part of a good review.

I believe that manufacturers do most of their testing and development work
on track (and trains) of their own manufacture -- after all, they have a
lot of it ! This can lead to a lack of compatibility with older
equipment.. Magazine articles review items that are largely either Lionel
compatible or Flyer compatible. But do these reviewers really test this
compatibility? What about the customer who has Lionel or Flyer trains and
track and switches and transformers, and wants to continue to use them and
NOT replace them with the new stuff? Who's looking out for him? Nobody.
He's just a dinosaur. New trains are seemingly never tested or reviewed in
an all-original environment.

And how about operating the item through and with the more common
proprietary track items, such as crossings, uncouplers, rerailers,
trestles, track trips, and train stopping accessories? I feel that these
are things that should be tested too. Toy trains should do more than run
around ovals.

Some compatibility problems are major, but many are minor, though they can
require great ingenuity to overcome. This is a chance for a magazine to
look good by coming up with clever solutions for these little difficulties.

And finally , how tough are the electronics? Many Flyer transformers
produce 20 VAC. Many Lionels produce more. When something goes wrong,
such as a derailment, brief surges of 80V or more can occur, especially
among those using original transformers. Are a piece's electronics really
tough enough to survive in this environment? You know as well as I do that
some are but many are not.


Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17259 From: Dick Kuepper Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Gilbert HO
I have a neighbor who (I'm sure God will forgive him) collects prewar and early postwar L. But he has a Gilbert HO he received as a child (1957/58), and asked me about value. I know nothing about this, and neither the Greenberg nor TM books I have list it.

He has 2 Northern Pacific A units (#423) and 4 passenger cars to match (#540-543). All are in the original boxes, but there is no set box. Anyone have any info on street valu?

Thanks. Dick


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17260 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: test tracks
Tom Jarcho, dissatisfied with magazine reviews, said:
>An oval is a terrible choice of configuration for a test track, because
>there are many flaws that it will not expose.

This was a good point among many that you made, Tom. If you look at
magazine reviews, particularly CTT's, you will see that pulling power is the
most seriously considered locomotive ability. It would be the equivalent of
Motor Trend reviewing cars on the basis of passenger capacity.

Most engines these days can pull a prodigious number of cars. It is almost
a moot point, though it does provide a point of camparison. Measured
overhang on a particular radius track might be a nice specification.
Ability to navigate a tough series of S bends would settle the issues on
reverse curves. The tests ought to be more brutal than daily operation
would be with the thought that if the item can pass the test, it will easily
handle a regular layout. Also, tests take place over the course of a week
or so, where the service life of the engine will be years in length.
Testing should be hard enough to try to uncover problems that would normally
take more time to find.

Automobile tests can include test track performance, road response, long
term use and laboratory breakdown and analysis. In fact, Consumers Reports
testing always includes such broad and detailed examination. If magazines
like CTT want to provide such a service, they will either have to set up a
far more extensive testing lab or farm out the work to an independent (maybe
one like you!). Their limited facility for S-Gauge is disheartening and
lends credence to the idea that they should be renamed CLT.

Nonetheless, no magazines are doing such analysis. I attribute this to the
unique market that toy trains makes up. We are likely to buy an engine
because we want an SD-60, or because we want a BNSF paint scheme, or we want
everything we can find in Union Pacific. If it has problems with our
layouts, we do workarounds. We are familiar with compatibility issues
because we already run a wide variety of equipment from little steam
switchers to big diesel/electric power. We run AC, DC, three different
types of sound and whistle controllers, engines that can't take more than 15
volts and others that won't move until they see 7 volts. Our trains have
link couplers, knuckle couplers, fixed couplers, Pikemaster splits, scale
couplers - both operating and not, Kadee's and some weird ones that are
halfway in-between. There are at least five track systems in S-Highrail
alone and tons of failed systems whose remnants linger. S-gaugers never
throw anything away.

We are in a morass of incompatiblity that we somehow hold together. There
simply is no motivation for anyone to do extensive testing. What would they
say, that this E-8 is incompatible? With what? If there is a problem,
would I not buy it? But I really want an E-8! The issues won't stop me.
So, who is going to spend the money for testing?

Magazines will not go much beyond simple testing. It is not a matter of
buying a Sunbeam iron instead of a GE or Proctor-Silex. There isn't much
choice and if you want one, you can make it work. Still, I think CTT could
be a little more interested in S-gauge than they are. If they were "0-Gauge
Railroading" I wouldn't expect anything, but everything I own is a classic
toy train.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17261 From: TCS Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scale
682 CNW 40' white piggyback van trailer (1977)

683 KCS 40' aluminum piggyback van trailer (1973)

684 Geiger Ready Mix cement trucks. (1990's+)

685 Spencer Chemical Co. SCJX 40' wood reefer. (4-57)

The N scale sets will letter 2 or 3 cars. S & O scale will letter 1 car.

All the above decals refer to HO scale kits on the market. These will
also work for other scales. Just pick a car of your choice in the other
scales.

Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-.
N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These
should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so.

If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N,
HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $1.75 for p&h. You buy this catalog once,
then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring
binder.

---
---
Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals
N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals
26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054
Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@...
Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/
Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/
NMRA Member #121756
Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17262 From: TED R LARSON Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: RC
Two people asked me for more info about the 1951 Hudson and 1953 Packard.
Here is my previous note, which goes into more detail.
Date: Thu Jan 24, 2002
Subject: Racing Champions



Whoaaaaaaaa, I stopped by Target to
check for new vehicles from Racing
Champions. I looked all over but saw
no familiar Racing Champions
packaging, even though Target has
lately been far better than K-mart or
Walmart in stocking RC. I started
checking other blister packs to see if
anybody else had anything of interest.
And there I found some Racing
Champions in totally unfamiliar
packaging, similar to Hot Wheels. Some
of the cars I found are re-runs of
previous offerings, such as the 1964
Ford Fairlane "Thunderbolt". Others I
don't recall seeing previously.
From the back of the package, here's
the list of offerings. I saw about
half of these in stock, none of which appeared to be over
or undersize.

1967 Plymouth Fury II
Plymouth Prowler
1964 Ford Thunderbolt
1970 Camaro
1999 Porsche Boxster
1969 Camaro
1969 Boss Mustang 302
1953 Packard Carribean
1951 Hudson Hornet
1929 Ford Roadster Pickup
Razor Concept Car
M80 Concept Car

Regarding other manufacturers, here's some items that I
spotted.
Johnny Lightning 1957 Chev Cameo pickup
Matchbox Post Office van - modern
Matchbox horse trailer (looks like a rerun of the
mid-60's trailer that
came with the Studebaker station wagon)
Hot Wheels collectible 1957 Chev sedan (looks a bit small
in comparison
to their 1957 Ford convertible)
________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17263 From: joelgerlach Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: 336 Troubles
Does anyone know what may cause a 336 to rock side to side to an
unacceptale degree. I am at a loss as to what could cause this. Is
it possible the wheels are out of round, could the axles be worn,
or is there something else i should look for. Any ideas would be
greatly appreciated
Group: S-Trains Message: 17264 From: Donald P. Abrams Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Reversing unit troubles
If the fingers are bent at too great an angle toward the drum, It takes a
much higher voltage for the coil to lift the armature/pawl and to turn the
drum.
Bad coil? Some windings shorted to one another, but not the frame, thereby
reducing the power of the coil.
I too had a recent go round (no pun intended) with a reverse unit. It was in
a '46 Hudson. In my estimation I was the first to work on this one. LN++ in
the original wrapper and box, and driver rims never pinned onto the centers.
The pawl rivet was very loose causing erratic turning of the drum. Wouldn't
consistently turn it the required 45 degrees.
Also the spacing of the copper segments in the center of the drum was
irregular. Instead of them being 90 degrees apart they were more like
80/100. No sign at all or shrinkage or warpage. Just a badly made original
part. Had to replace it.
I've never tried rounding off the corners of the armature pivot tabs that go
into the sideframes. I do use a drop of gear oil on them however.
Hope this helps,
Don

>I've fought and cursed many AF reversing units, but this one has got
>>>>>>me stumped. Everything seems to be clean and free moving. The
>electrical contacts work fine. This is, by the way, a "low mileage"
>unit, in nearly new condition in a 494 dual motor Alco.
>The problem is, while it works fine at say 15 volts, the coil will
>not pick up the plate at lower voltages, so it will not cycle. If you
>start the loco at say 10 volts, it will run, and then when you
>increase the voltage, the unit will then cycle to neutral. The drum
>turns freely, and the ratchet thing drops into place the way I wish
>they all did.
>Any ideas???
Group: S-Trains Message: 17265 From: David Dewey Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: 336 Troubles
Joel,
Need more definition of "rock side to side." Do you mean the loco
"hunts" while going down the track (noses first one way, then the other), or
do you mean that it actually tips back and forth while running?
Many things can cause "strange running." A mismatch of wheel size can
do it--yes, AF steamer large drive wheels have two different sized tires:
pre-pullmor, and pullmor.
A misgauged set of drive wheels can easily cause the "hunting" effect.
Being out of quarter can cause a strange loping pattern.
Worn drive rods can start a whole mess 'o pain--especially if one side is
worn and the other isn't!
Out of round pull-mor tires can cause problems too (as can missing traction
rings on the late plastic drive wheels).
This is just off the top of my head & in a hurry as Linda wants to go
somewhere and if I want to go along, I've got to get mooooving!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17266 From: David Dewey Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: Reversing unit troubles
Don mentioned rounding off the pawl arm that sticks through the sideframe.
This is done if the hole in the sideframe has a sharp edge, and has cut a
minute groove in the arm. It causes it to stick in the up position, making
one think the lift plate has become magnetized. Solution is to carefully
round the hole edges, and take just a hair off the arm top back edge to get
rid of the groove. Some re-adjustment of the arm may be needed to keep the
cycled position of the drum in correct relationship to the fingers. BTW,
most new fingers are a tad too long! This, and wear on the mechanism, causes
the fingers to ride on the drum too far. The fingers can be carefully bent
in the contact area to make them effectively shorter.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17267 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: test tracks
In a message dated 2/9/02 3:03:28 PM, busyboy@... writes:

<< Nonetheless, no magazines are doing such analysis. I attribute this to
the unique market that toy trains makes up. >>

Both Tom and Chris have made several valid points. Heck, the "simple" test of
backing a train of modest length into a siding through a turned turnout can
be most revealing. CTT could and should do better in this regard. OGR (O
Gauge Railroading) does very extensive reviews of new motive power ( 0 gauge,
of course) and there is no reason why the others could not do it, as well.
Better still, however, the manufactures should perform extensive evaluations
during the engineering phase before finalizing designs for production, and
before magazines (and customers!) get a hold of the product. Unfortunately,
each of our three principal sources for new S gauge trains have cut corners
in this regard from time to time.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 17268 From: ron inscho Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: 336 Troubles
check the following 1 check axle holes for excess play which indicates you
may need to re bush the chassis 2 check all tires to see if they are true &
not loose 3 by now the pullmor tires could have gotten bumps in them you
might be able to true them up a bit but this is only a temp. fix as the best
way is to replace them with n.o.s. or better yet modern day replacement
tires so it won't happen again . Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "joelgerlach" <joelgerlach@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 4:11 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] 336 Troubles


> Does anyone know what may cause a 336 to rock side to side to an
> unacceptale degree. I am at a loss as to what could cause this. Is
> it possible the wheels are out of round, could the axles be worn,
> or is there something else i should look for. Any ideas would be
> greatly appreciated
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17269 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: Electronic Track Trip
Here is a link to my Infrared Track Detector that I use on my layout.
The advantage of this one is it can be used below the track,(reflected
light) or above the track as beam interupted type.

It includes a Radio Shack parts list, Schematic and photos of the below the
track sensor.

http://www.tuveson.com/Detector/Detector.htm

Carl
W9SBT
A ham I am. :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: John L. [mailto:larry.asp@...]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 11:46 PM
Cc: slist
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] RE:whitewalls


Original American Flyer track trips to operate crossing lights etc, seem to
be quite
expense. Has anyone come up (especially hams in the group) with an
electronic one
that could be put together with Radio Shack type parts. Im thinking along
the lines
of a photocell electronic relay or a motion detector. Or is there one in
the market
place now?. Seems like a lot of crossing signals and other track trip
devices seem to
come without the trip switches.



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17270 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: Electronic Track Trip
Carl,

This looks real nice, but I am a little confused about how the LED is
used to adjust sensitivity?

Thanks, Chuck
WA8LBH
Group: S-Trains Message: 17271 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: (no subject)
The first day of the 2-day GATS Show in Winston-Salem,
North Carolina was a huge success for the Carolinas
Division of the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers. Our small
footprint restricted us to a 25 by 25 foot layout, so
we could not use several modules. However, what we
did set up performed spectaculary and was the hit of
the show. We have 41 action buttons operating
numerous different accessories of many makes and
models. There was a constant crowd around the layout,
with kids jostling for button pushing rights. This is
a truly interactive layout, allowing kids to realize
that there is more to model trains than scenery and
watching them run around. Several parents and
grandparents remarked that it was the greatest thing
seeing the pleasure that the kids got "operating" the
accessories. And to top things off we got 2 more new
members on the spot and ran out of application forms
before 3 p.m.

The show continues tomorrow from 11 a.m. until 5 p.m.
at the Dixie Fairgrounds.

Joe


=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
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Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17272 From: bassflyer Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: S-Trains list @ becoming a pain in the ...........
I have often mentioned that I go to the site to read all of the
posts. I can scan down the list and pick a post that interests me, or
just click on next to read every new post. And all of the old posts
are there to recap on. Also I find my email not filling up with posts
by going to the site.
However,....lately when I go to the site, and start clicking on
posts to read,..I am being spammed by an ad and have to click a
second time to get to the post!! Which takes two more "Back" clicks
to get back to the message list!! Even just going from post to post,
I am spammed by an ad. Now I know that this is how Yahoo makes some
of it's money,..but what a pain!!
I may start receiving (is it ei or ie? I never get it right!),
the posts by email to avoid ads!!

Oh well,...I hope all is well in the toy train
world,..whitewalls or not!! :-)

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17273 From: gunrjoe@aol.com Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: boys railroad club video-track radius
Just obtained a video of the Gilbert Boys Railroad club. saw many great
ideas. The one question I had was that I observed a curved section with about
four or five tracks next to each other. I think that gilbert only had the one
radius so did he use another track provider or did they hand bend and lay the
track for the Railroad Club layout. Further, is there any publication devoted
to the club layout with discussion and still photographs.??Thanks


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17274 From: David Dewey Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: Electronic Track Trip
Carl's detector page mentions layout lighting, and he recommends
Fluorescent. Fluorescent lighting, without filtering added contains high
amounts of UV that will discolor and fade your trains! Yes, it takes time,
but it does eventually happen!
Incandescent does too, but to a lesser degree. Of course an Archivist would
prefer we keep them in a dark, humidity and temperature controlled
environment ALL the time!
:-)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17275 From: srgriggs Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: 336 Troubles
I suspect the problem is related to the Pullmor tires on the
locomotive. I have a 332AC that I restored and equipped with a pair
of NOS 4-8-4 Pullmor wheels (I was fortunate enough to buy them about
ten years ago following the liquidation of a stock of dealer service
parts). My Northern also rocks side to side, although it is not very
noticeable unless its exceeding a certain speed and you are viewing it
from straight on. I'm not sure if it is because the wheels are out of
round or because the Pullmor tire's friction properties vary during
one wheel revolution (i.e. one side slips while the other wheel
doesn't). If related to wheels being out of round or friction
characteristics, it seems like it would be most noticeable on 4-8-4
locomotives since the boiler is much longer than any other Gilbert
steamer--the length of the boiler makes a given rocking motion more
noticeable than would be the case on a shorter locomotive.

As far as how to fix it, I can't think of any clean and easy ways to
do it. The most foolproof way to isolate root cause would be to
install a set of non-Pullmor wheels (making sure the left and right
diameters of the replacement wheels is as close to identical as
possible). Of course, then you give up the benefits of Pullmor,
although I question how effective 45+ year old traction tires are
(after absorbing oil and track dirt and aging). Few would be willing
to go to this extreme, however.

--- In S-Trains@y..., "joelgerlach" <joelgerlach@y...> wrote:
> Does anyone know what may cause a 336 to rock side to side to an
> unacceptale degree. I am at a loss as to what could cause this. Is
> it possible the wheels are out of round, could the axles be worn,
> or is there something else i should look for. Any ideas would be
> greatly appreciated
Group: S-Trains Message: 17276 From: jahoozdumm Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: S-Trains list @ becoming a pain in the ...........
Rick wrote:

>Even just going from post to post, I am spammed by an ad. Now I know
>that this is how Yahoo makes some of it's money,..but what a pain!!


Yer not kiddin' it's a pain. I don't mind seeing the banners over
each page, but having a big fat ad right in the middle of the message
body is VERY annoying, and quite unnecessary. It also increases
download time. Then, getting routed to a full page ad instead of the
message you expected is REALLY aggravating, and the "Yahoo is
advertizer supported" (IOW, "We're doing this to make more money so
don't whine to us") message borders on insult.

Of course, Yahoo is trying to see how much money they can squeeze out
of source material (ours) that they don't have to write themselves.
They don't seem to realize that if they make this site too annoying
to use, many of us just might stop using it. Then who would see their
ads? But just try using common sense in the business would today...

Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17277 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: No place else to go
Yahoo has bought out where we were and there's not much choice left that we could move to, so we are stuck with them.

Chuck said:

"Of course, Yahoo is trying to see how much money they can squeeze out
of source material (ours) that they don't have to write themselves.
They don't seem to realize that if they make this site too annoying
to use, many of us just might stop using it. Then who would see their
ads? But just try using common sense in the business would today...

Chuck F."

I think that Yahoo just about has a monopoly on this sort of service now.

jfred





---------------------------------
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Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17278 From: David Dewey Date: 2/9/2002
Subject: Re: No place else to go
Hmm,
Wonder what happened to the "restraint of trade" laws??
Bad enough UP has monopolized RR around here, now Yahoo has monopolized
my toy train communications!! AAAUGH!!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17279 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Portable Layout
With Paul's help I was able to get two Photo's uploaded to the group's site. They are from the Greensboro, MD Library's train show held in early December that I described in my earlier message.

The first one is a close up of the buildings and tunnel ( Styrofoam insulation board covered with water putty and latex paint).
The second one is more of an over view of the 4X6 layout before the crowd arrived.

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/lst
They are in the Demo Layout

Jim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17280 From: Clifford Manning Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: Electronic Track Trip
If you were to put lighting up in a new room, what kind of incandescent lights would
you use?
Are spots or track lighting a better choice that 4 or 6 regular 2 bulb light fixtures
in a 12 by 16 room? I plan to put up scenic back drops on the walls. One layout
will be toytrain in style for American Flyer and later some lionel. The other is for
my HO 14 x 10 2 level layout.

Clifford

David Dewey wrote:

> Carl's detector page mentions layout lighting, and he recommends
> Fluorescent. Fluorescent lighting, without filtering added contains high
> amounts of UV that will discolor and fade your trains! Yes, it takes time,
> but it does eventually happen!
> Incandescent does too, but to a lesser degree. Of course an Archivist would
> prefer we keep them in a dark, humidity and temperature controlled
> environment ALL the time!
> :-)
> S'
> David D.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17281 From: Paul Yorke Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Gilbert Display Layouts
Here is some info I have gathered over the years. Two
diagrams and some text about Gilbert layouts.

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/department/displayLO.htm

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/department/displayLO2.htm

=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
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Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17282 From: Paul Yorke Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: S-Trains list @ becoming a pain in the ...........
I respectfully disagree,
The list is not the problem, its reading the posts on
the http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/messages
page that is the pain.

I suggest you create a hotmail or yahoo mail account
just for reading list mail. I use a yahoo mail
account. I have set up filters that send [s-scale] to
one folder, [s-trains] to another etc.

I can quickly see all the new and unread notes. If I
see something I want to add to my web site I move it
to a folder called 'how I got started' or 'good links'
or 'FAQ'.

I do agree that the extra add page on
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/messages is a
pain but that is not a 'required' part of reading the
list. If you don't enjoy seeing the ad I suggest you
use a different method, and enjoy reading the list.

=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
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Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17283 From: notcoldenough Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: Electronic Track Trip
I've started using the new Lionel 153IR controller to operate my
Flyer accessories such as a crossing gate. It sits by the side of
the track in a realistic looking diecast metal railroad like cabinet
and operates by detecting reflected light from a passing train. It
is made to snap onto Lionel track with an adapter, but this adapter
can be removed (takes 30 seconds) for two rail Flyer use.

A single pole double throw relay connects to two terminals to provide
power to the accesories. One terminal is powered only when a train
is detected, the other is powered when a train is not present.

Cost is about $23-$25 from most mail order firms.

Here is description of it from the Lionel catalog:

153IR Controller
• Infrared sensors (adjustable) detect passing trains and activate
connected accessories
• Time delay adjustment knob
(from 0 to 5 seconds)
• Die-cast structure and base
• Dimensions: 5" x 4 1/2" x 3 1/2"
(6-14111) $29.95

Here is photo of it:

http://www.lionel.com/Products/Catalogs/cat-2002-c-1/images/6-14111-
1531r-controller.jpg




>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John L. [mailto:larry.asp@s...]
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 11:46 PM
> Cc: slist
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] RE:whitewalls
>
>
> Original American Flyer track trips to operate crossing lights etc,
seem to
> be quite
> expense. Has anyone come up (especially hams in the group) with an
> electronic one
> that could be put together with Radio Shack type parts. Im thinking
along
> the lines
> of a photocell electronic relay or a motion detector. Or is there
one in
> the market
> place now?. Seems like a lot of crossing signals and other track
trip
> devices seem to
> come without the trip switches.
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17284 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: Electronic Track Trip
I use a mix of Fluorescent and Incandescent. The fluorescent is the main
room lighting. The room is 44x16 and I use 900 watts of it. The
Incandescents I use are 18, 40 watt track lights on a dimmer. Tracks are
used for Fill lighting in the dark areas and on the backdrop. Being on a
dimmer they are also the evening and twilight lighting.

As far as using incandescent with IR sensors, it works if you use strategic
placement of both lighting and sensors. The problem with the under the track
type with they look up into the lighting. Beam interrupter type are not as
susceptible to the problem. The under the track type allows a prolific
placement of them if you are using them for signaling as I do. Sometimes
moving a track light a bit will improve the performance of a sensor on the
layout. General purpose incandescent fixtures would not cast as intense beam
and may not be as big of a problem.

Carl

-----Original Message-----
From: Clifford Manning [mailto:clifma19@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 10:20 AM
To: David Dewey
Cc: 'John L.'; Carl Tuveson; slist
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Electronic Track Trip


If you were to put lighting up in a new room, what kind of incandescent
lights would you use? Are spots or track lighting a better choice that 4 or
6 regular 2 bulb light fixtures in a 12 by 16 room? I plan to put up scenic
back drops on the walls. One layout will be toytrain in style for American
Flyer and later some lionel. The other is for my HO 14 x 10 2 level layout.

Clifford

David Dewey wrote:

> Carl's detector page mentions layout lighting, and he recommends
> Fluorescent. Fluorescent lighting, without filtering added contains
> high amounts of UV that will discolor and fade your trains! Yes, it
> takes time, but it does eventually happen! Incandescent does too, but
> to a lesser degree. Of course an Archivist would prefer we keep them
> in a dark, humidity and temperature controlled environment ALL the
> time!
> :-)
> S'
> David D.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17285 From: fjg1870 Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: boys railroad club video-track radius
--- In S-Trains@y..., gunrjoe@a... wrote:
.... The one question I had was that I observed a curved section with
about four or five tracks next to each other. I think that gilbert
only had the one radius so did he use another track provider or did
they hand bend and lay the track for the Railroad Club layout.
Further, is there any publication devoted to the club layout with
discussion and still photographs.


There have been at least two articles about the Boys' RR Club. The
first is the July 1984 issue of the SG on page 29. The second is in
the March 1996 issue of CTT on page 104. As far as I've heard, the
wide radius curve track was bent by hand to fit the layout. I'm not
aware of any plans for, or preproduction samples of wide radius track.

Walt Danylak
Group: S-Trains Message: 17286 From: notcoldenough Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: Electronic Track Trip / photo added
The link to the Lionel controller photo didn't work in my last
message, so I posted a photo of it in the files section. It's
called "Lionel 1531r-controller.jpg".

As a side note, does anybody know how to paste URL links
successfully? It seems that as soon as the link is longer than a
page width in Yahoo messages, it cuts off the rest of the address for
the link.

John Gasal

--- In S-Trains@y..., "notcoldenough" <NotColdEnough@h...> wrote:
> I've started using the new Lionel 153IR controller to operate my
> Flyer accessories such as a crossing gate. It sits by the side of
> the track in a realistic looking diecast metal railroad like
cabinet
> and operates by detecting reflected light from a passing train. It
> is made to snap onto Lionel track with an adapter, but this adapter
> can be removed (takes 30 seconds) for two rail Flyer use.
>
> A single pole double throw relay connects to two terminals to
provide
> power to the accesories. One terminal is powered only when a train
> is detected, the other is powered when a train is not present.
>
> Cost is about $23-$25 from most mail order firms.
>
> Here is description of it from the Lionel catalog:
>
> 153IR Controller
> • Infrared sensors (adjustable) detect passing trains and activate
> connected accessories
> • Time delay adjustment knob
> (from 0 to 5 seconds)
> • Die-cast structure and base
> • Dimensions: 5" x 4 1/2" x 3 1/2"
> (6-14111) $29.95
>
> Here is photo of it:
>
> http://www.lionel.com/Products/Catalogs/cat-2002-c-1/images/6-14111-
> 1531r-controller.jpg
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17287 From: Steve Blancard Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Dealing with long URL links
John,

There is no simple way to make long links fit in a page without getting broken. When
I send a long link in a message, I always say that the 2 parts of the link will
probable be broken and will need to be copied and pasted together into your browser
instead of just clicking on the link. This is a little time consuming but works.

Steve Blancard

notcoldenough wrote:

> snip
> As a side note, does anybody know how to paste URL links
> successfully? It seems that as soon as the link is longer than a
> page width in Yahoo messages, it cuts off the rest of the address for
> the link.
>
> John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 17288 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: boys railroad club video-track radius
In a message dated 2/9/02 10:00:05 PM, gunrjoe@... writes:

<< Just obtained a video of the Gilbert Boys Railroad club. Saw many great
ideas. The one question I had was that I observed a curved section with about
four or five tracks next to each other. I think that Gilbert only had the one
radius so did he use another track provider or did they hand bend and lay the
track for the Railroad Club layout. Further, is there any publication devoted
to the club layout with discussion and still photographs.? >>

There have been articles about the filming of the AF Boys Railroad Club, and
Walt has cited two (See his post). The filming was done with the use of two
layouts: (1) a modest one in an NYC filming studio with Herky and gang, and
(2) many shots of the Gilbert Hall of Science layout. If I remember,
correctly, the filming with the boys and the RR guests took place over a two+
day period -- notice that the boys' clothing does not change at all, except
for Herky's clown suit. Most of the shots showing the wide radius curves (and
most of the shots of trains running in general) are of the Hall of Science
layout done at a different time than the ad shots with the boys. One end of
the studio layout also had wide radius curves. Footage from both layouts
were then edited and dubbed in such a fashion so as to leave the impression
that both layouts were one and the same. Notice, if you will, that one never
sees the boys (just a "hand" at most) when the action is occurring on the
elaborate Hall of Science layout -- one that is far beyond the construction
skills and resources of our hardy band of boys in their "basement".

Getting back to the original question, the wide radius curves were bent to
those radii by hand when the first post war Hall of Science layout was
constructed, and repeated later for part of the studio layout.

Hope this helps.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 17289 From: notcoldenough Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Blocking ads / S-Trains list @ becoming a pain in the ...........
I have installed a freeware program to block ads. The first time
they come up, you right click on the ad, and the program adds it to
a "do not open list". I rarely see ads in S-trains any more. A few
day's ago I accidently had this program disabled and was suprised to
see all the ads in S-trains.

The program I use is Adshield. See the following site to download
it. It's a 1.5 megabyte file.

http://www.adshield.org

The program is not perfect. For example, it will block the extra pop-
up ad that proceeds the message, but you still have to click a second
time to see the message. At least you don't have to waste time for
the ad to load.

hope this helps

John Gasal


--- In S-Trains@y..., "bassflyer" <comic@d...> wrote:
> I have often mentioned that I go to the site to read all of the
> posts. I can scan down the list and pick a post that interests me,
or
> just click on next to read every new post. And all of the old posts
> are there to recap on. Also I find my email not filling up with
posts
> by going to the site.
> However,....lately when I go to the site, and start clicking on
> posts to read,..I am being spammed by an ad and have to click a
> second time to get to the post!! Which takes two more "Back" clicks
> to get back to the message list!! Even just going from post to
post,
> I am spammed by an ad. Now I know that this is how Yahoo makes some
> of it's money,..but what a pain!!
> I may start receiving (is it ei or ie? I never get it right!),
> the posts by email to avoid ads!!
>
> Oh well,...I hope all is well in the toy train
> world,..whitewalls or not!! :-)
>
> Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17290 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Electronic track trip
NotColdEnough: could you possible post the instruction sheet from the LTI
153IR in the S-trains files?

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17291 From: Scott Holm Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: Dealing with long URL links
> notcoldenough wrote:
> > As a side note, does anybody know how to paste URL links
> > successfully? It seems that as soon as the link is longer than a
> > page width in Yahoo messages, it cuts off the rest of the address for
> > the link.

If the link is shorter than 99 characters, go into Yahoo mail options, mail preferences, mail
viewing preferences, screen width (composing), and change the width from 72 to the max of 99 and
then it won't end the line at the default of 72 and screw up the link. It will at 99, though.

http://www.lionel.com/Products/Catalogs/cat-2002-c-1/images/6-14111-1531r-controller.jpg

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17292 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Tookus (was: S-Trains list @ becoming a pain in the ...........)
Rick sed:
>I may start receiving (is it ei or ie? I never get it right!),
>the posts by email to avoid ads!!

Good idea. I get the digest. Yahoo has become impossible with those pushy
ads.

BTW:
"i" before "e",
except after "c"
or when sounded like "a"
as in "neighbor" and "weigh"

"receiving" was correct

My problem is remembering how many days are in any given month, so I recite:
"30 days has September,
April, June & November,
All the rest have 31
save February, which has 28
Except when leap year gives it 29"

There's some line about Granny on a tricycle, but I don't remember it.
I do mouth this out every time it comes up and it's not a sign of aging.
I've been doing it since I was a kid!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17293 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: No place else to go
Dewey Duck sez:
>Bad enough UP has monopolized RR around here, now Yahoo has monopolized
>my toy train communications!! AAAUGH!!

Could be worse, Duck. What if Yahoo and UP merged. Big, yellow wide cabs
lettered:
"Do You Yahoo?" or would it be a more sedate "Yahoo Pacific" ? Now,
there's a collectible!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17294 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Trainweb
Paul
Trainweb seems really jammed up.
I wrote to them, but have heard nothing.
Their server is operating at thick mud speed.
I could not view your linx. I could not see those cool articulateds the
other day.


Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17295 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Layout lighting
Here is what I will be using to light my layout.

I am mounting track lighting lengthwise with the layout table length. I
will put up several rows. Fixtures will vary but will mostly be mini-spots
and floods. The ceiling mounted lights will be hidden from the viewer by
"teasers" which are short curtains placed between the rows of lighting track
and suspended from the ceiling about 12 to 16 inches. They will be weighted
with steel rod sewn in. Most lighting will come straight down with a steep
angle to keep shadows short. "Key" lights will play all from the same side
of their subjects to keep shadows facing the same way. Additional cross
teasers, "flags" will control excessive spill.

This lighting style works best with the diorama method of setting up a
layout. Each scene is a complete area unto itself and trains move from
scene to scene. Lighting "in scene" is stronger and more highlighted, while
track passing from one area to another is left a little darker. This is a
way of focusing viewer interest.

Some lights can be mounted to work against the keys. These can be
backlights and fill lights.
Backlights create an "edge" on figures or structures to separate them from
the background. Fill lights, usually floods, smooth out shadows and cut
down overly dramatic key lighting.

If you see your trains as a show played out on a stage, you know the viewing
angles and can light for best effect from those angles.

Backgrounds should be lit separately and flooded to diffuse any shadows
still remaining from actual layout structures. Fluorescent lights are not
only harmful to color dyes, they are just plain flat looking and contain a
high green component that makes colors look awful. If you must use
fluorescents you should install UV filters and minusgreen filters. We have
discussed UV filters at length before. Minusgreen is available from the
same distributors. If anyone wants to pursue this further, post that desire
on the list and I will look for the earlier posts that gave all the info.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17296 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: Electronic Track Trip / photo added
John Gasal asks:
>As a side note, does anybody know how to paste URL links
>successfully? It seems that as soon as the link is longer than a
>page width in Yahoo messages, it cuts off the rest of the address for
>the link.

This is another pain in the tookus, but here's what you do.
Click on the link. Only the first line goes into the browser.
Come back to the mail message, cut the second line and paste it into the
browser after the first line.

This method has always worked, until today. There was a dash, a hyphen,
that got cut off and had to be added back in. Then it worked.

Just make the URL in the browser's address line match exactly what was given
as a link.

And remember, computers are here to make our lives easier.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17297 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, February 10, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains
Group: S-Trains Message: 17298 From: af21115 Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: S-Trains list @ becoming a pain in the ...........
I agree 100%, Yahoo has become a pain in the AXX with the SPAM. I am
tired of it, and obviously others are getting sick of it as well. I
complained a while ago when it first started, and complain to Yahoo
several times a week via their Help e-mail notification. Paul
suggested then, as he is now to this post, that we open a freebie e-
mail account and have the messages sent there then do the folder
thing etc etc etc ad nausieum on the manipulations. That is a valid
solution, but its a matter of principles. I say bullcrap, why should
we have to jump thru hoops to avoid being annoyed with SPAM and other
garbage just to enjoy a site, and share information?? I rarely visit
any more because its an anoyance, and a nusiance. Those visits are
few and far between, and usually are because I have spare time on my
hands, I am otherwise bored, and I need some kind of train news. As
far as I am concerned, Yahoo can stow it, and I'll soon tire of this
garbage all together and quit the list.

There is another free-ware package out there called WebWasher. Its
free for home use, and it eliminates the pop-up windows, ads, and URL
links to full page ads very well. There is a trick to getting the
filter to work on the Yahoo trash. You need to right click to add the
offending ad to the URL list, but doing that only covers that
specific ad, and the next time you open a message there is a
different ad there. You need to go to that saved URL, and take out
everything beyond the .com/ in the string. Then it prevents anything
from that main URL from loading, not just a specifically addressed
ad. This software works very well, but if you have an older, slower
machine like me, it does take a few seconds longer to initially load
a sites page, then its supposed to enhance loading performance by
eliminating the java scripts that work these annoyances. WebWasher is
found by seraching on that name using Google search engine. Why use
Yahoo when you don't have to?? :o)~
Group: S-Trains Message: 17299 From: notcoldenough Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: Electronic track trip
--- In S-Trains@y..., jarcho@r... wrote:
> NotColdEnough: could you possible post the instruction sheet from
the LTI 153IR in the S-trains files?


Done. See "Files", look for the "Lionel 153IR controller"
subdirectory. The instructions were a 15 page manual which I scanned
in two parts.

John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 17300 From: david_s_garber Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: list and pain
click on expand messages on bottom left of message screen .get
messages only.its faster in that you do not have to go back for each
message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17301 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: Tookus (was: S-Trains list @ becoming a pain in the ...........)
What is GRANNY on a Tricycle??? Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 17302 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Chris wrote:

"Could be worse, Duck. What if Yahoo and UP merged"

Well, remember that SPRINT started life as Southern Pacific Communications.

jfred





---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17303 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Ebay auction item 1703839145
Cool looking item,lets get a pool going on it.I guess $1328.


Keith


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Group: S-Trains Message: 17304 From: Tom Pennington Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay auction item 1703839145
Not that I am an expert, but never saw anything like this one
before. Presuming
it is very rare, I'd say at least $1201.77 Anyone know what it is or does?

Tom

>At 07:05 PM 2/10/02 -0600, Keith Kuzma wrote:
>
>Cool looking item,lets get a pool going on it.I guess $1328.
>
>
>Keith


_________________________________________________________________

_---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||]
[||####### #####|______||_____
|| UNION PACIFIC __| [][] |__ ||
||_______________________/ _| UP |___\_||
| ||| | | | | | | / | 6212 # ||| |
[]|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[]
/|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\
========================================================

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17305 From: Scott Holm Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay auction item 1703839145
No, it's a worthless piece of junk. Ignore it, Don't bid on it.

By the way, remember that brass (non-magnetic) tray for the electromagnetic crane that went for
upwards of $60 on Ebay? I got one at the Chicago GATS show today from John Heck for $4. I'm going
to have to start carrying a magnet. I was able to tell this one by the brass showing through some
scratches.



--- Keith Kuzma <keithkuzma@...> wrote:
>
> Cool looking item,lets get a pool going on it.I guess $1328.
>
>
> Keith
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17306 From: Steve Roche Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: E unit wiring
Hi everyone, my reverse unit on my 21573 New Haven Electric broke down on me and I bought a new one from Doug Peck. My problem is that it was 6 months between taking things apart and ordering the new reverse unit and I did not notate wiring. I thought i could reconstruct but have been unsuccessful so far. Here is what I have:
Green wire from right brush
Yellow wire from left brush connected to rear trucks
Red from right field wire
Black from left field wire
The 21573 has a vertical 2 position unit
Any help would be appreciated.
Steve Roche


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17307 From: tomsmitty2001 Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: ebay item # 1703839145
The "whatsit" is what's left of a 594 ( ? ) Track Gang accessory, in
rough shape. About a year and a half ago they were fetching $1500 and
up when in good shape. They initially came out pre-war, from what I
remember there's some dissention as to if they ever made post-war,
and if sold post-war perhaps they were old stock. Some say the only
difference ( if there's any difference at all ) is that the pre-war
units had cloth covered wires, the post-wars ( if made ) had ( or
would have had ) plastic covered wires. Bid way !!

Regard"S",

Smitty
Group: S-Trains Message: 17308 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: SPRINT
United Telcom and GTE bought Sprint from SP. Later United bought out GTE's part , then took the SPRINT name for their local phone properties.

jfred,
I thought Sprint was United Telecom before.
Do you know something I don't, or are you just, how they say, making
the
joke? :)
Roy Inman




---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17309 From: Alan Evans Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Where is AFP, alias Greg Craft
List:
Looking for the whereabouts of AFP, previously from around the
Detroit MI area. Can anyone tell me if Greg Craft (sp?) and his AFP is
still in business?

- Alan Evans
Group: S-Trains Message: 17310 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: 336 wheel troubles
Hey Gang!

Check your pulmor tires up close. One of my steamers developed side rocking
and I discovered it was a bad pulmor tire. I peeled off the remains on that
one side and the engine runs straight. It has been a concern that leaving a
steamer unmoved for time on rail causes a flat spot on the tire (obviously
the heavier cast engines for sure). The more brittle the tire--the more
likely it will cause damage I think. Since all Flyer steamers are pretty
ancient now, I have to believe many pulmor tires are now pretty well dried up
and brittle. You can observe the compression of the tire from railsitting
pretty easily---most of all times, that indentation will reshape itself--if
the tire has some suppleness left. Now for someone who sits a shelf steamer
on rail forever?? I have never replaced a tire before and don't feel very
ambitious to start on that one at the moment. Gluing one looks like a
handful to me?

John R
Group: S-Trains Message: 17311 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Re: ebay item # 1703839145
Don't forget to save some $CASH$ for the glue for the broken figures! Now
which glue to bid on!?

Happy Bidding,

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD
----- Original Message -----
From: "tomsmitty2001" <SMITTY@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 10:09 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] ebay item # 1703839145


> The "whatsit" is what's left of a 594 ( ? ) Track Gang accessory, in
> rough shape. About a year and a half ago they were fetching $1500 and
> up when in good shape. They initially came out pre-war, from what I
> remember there's some dissention as to if they ever made post-war,
> and if sold post-war perhaps they were old stock. Some say the only
> difference ( if there's any difference at all ) is that the pre-war
> units had cloth covered wires, the post-wars ( if made ) had ( or
> would have had ) plastic covered wires. Bid way !!
>
> Regard"S",
>
> Smitty
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17312 From: bassflyer Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: Regarding the list @ Yahoo.....
Paul,..just to make sure you understand my gripe and others,..it
isn't the list that we,(at least not me!), have a problem with, but
Yahoo!!

Expanding the messages does help!! Reminds me of when I first
signed on the list a couple of years ago! Just scroll down through
the messages!!

Whew!! Dewey and I finally closed out the chat room Sunday at 9pm,
Calif. time.


Rick. "Take a ride on the "S" side!"
Group: S-Trains Message: 17313 From: jnr59 Date: 2/10/2002
Subject: American Models 6-wheel truck 80' Pullman cars
I am looking to purchase the two long pullman cars which American
Models made about 10 years ago but am having trouble locating any.
Does anyone have any ideas or know of someone who has some willing to
sell? I already have the undecorated club/cafe car. I am told that 3
different car designs were sold for various railroads. Already
checked with Ron of AM and he has none.

Also interested in AM's smooth side observation car and sleeper, cars
that were also 80' cars of different railroads. I already have the
dome, coach and combine cars of this 5 car series(4 wheel trucks).

Thanks for any assistance!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17314 From: ron inscho Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: Where is AFP, alias Greg Craft
His phone # is still answered as AFP but by a machine . I have left several
messages & so far no reply
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Evans" <rockyfork@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 11:47 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Where is AFP, alias Greg Craft


> List:
> Looking for the whereabouts of AFP, previously from around the
> Detroit MI area. Can anyone tell me if Greg Craft (sp?) and his AFP is
> still in business?
>
> - Alan Evans
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17315 From: Don Thompson Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: American Models 6-wheel truck 80' Pullman cars
The two cars you are looking for are indeed Pullman sleepers, a 12-1 and a
10-1-2. This was a project that AM made for S Helper Service in the early 90's.
The cafe car is a model of the CNJ Blue Comet diner (sans truss rods). I will admit
they are not easy to find and we have been hopeful that AM would run them again.
Don

jnr59 wrote:

> I am looking to purchase the two long pullman cars which American
> Models made about 10 years ago but am having trouble locating any.
> Does anyone have any ideas or know of someone who has some willing to
> sell? I already have the undecorated club/cafe car. I am told that 3
> different car designs were sold for various railroads. Already
> checked with Ron of AM and he has none.
>
> Also interested in AM's smooth side observation car and sleeper, cars
> that were also 80' cars of different railroads. I already have the
> dome, coach and combine cars of this 5 car series(4 wheel trucks).
>
> Thanks for any assistance!
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 17316 From: MARVD6848@aol.com Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: 572 CRUMBLER
i am looking for a shell for my crumbling
572it was made in the time before they had
the formula right and wheels thanks MD
Group: S-Trains Message: 17317 From: Horn, David Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: 336
Check the side to side quartering as well. If off, can cause an engine to
look as if "hopping" down the track. Dave
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17318 From: Horn, David Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Lionel detector
Since it is described as IFR, then is it fair to assume it will work equally
well regardless of room lighting conditions (i.e. dark or lit)?
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17319 From: aag_rlg Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Regarding the list @ Yahoo
Hi:

I also only check the list online and do not get the digest. The new
pop-up ads are annoying. One possibility might be to try a different
provider. I checked out some of the model railroad communities on
MSN and they did not appear to have pop-up ads coming up as part of
the messages. Using a site associated with Microsoft may not be
great, I seem to get a lot of junk mail on my Hotmail account, but it
may be worth a try. After all, the only way to get the message to
Yahoo that the pop-up ads are not a money-maker is to take the list
somewhere else.

Thanks,
Art
Group: S-Trains Message: 17320 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: American Models 6-wheel truck 80' Pullman cars
jnr59 (no name . . . who are you?) asks:
>I am looking to purchase the two long pullman cars which American
>Models made about 10 years ago but am having trouble locating any.
>Does anyone have any ideas or know of someone who has some willing to
>sell? I already have the undecorated club/cafe car. I am told that 3
>different car designs were sold for various railroads. Already
>checked with Ron of AM and he has none.
>
>Also interested in AM's smooth side observation car and sleeper, cars
>that were also 80' cars of different railroads. I already have the
>dome, coach and combine cars of this 5 car series(4 wheel trucks).

I bought the last of the 80 footers from Ron last year. The heavyweights
and the streamliners are getting hard to find. Every time I offer to buy
some, the seller backs down. I have a search on for these right now with a
distributor, and if he turns up any substantial quantity, I'll let you know.
If only I knew who you are.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17321 From: Horn, David Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: MIB SHS #00300 SF TOFC
These are out of stock at SHS, but if anyone on this list has one in stock
to sell please let me know. I'd like to buy it. Thanks. Dave
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17322 From: David Dewey Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: American Models 6-wheel truck 80' Pullman cars
Since the molds are already done, wouldn't these be an easy item to produce
again?
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17323 From: David Dewey Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: KIX Cereal BoxTrain buildings (1947?)
I noticed this eBay item, and was wondering if anyone had more information
on these? I seem to remember a paper train WAAY back in my youth, but '47 is
before my time!
Here's the URL, the photo is too low resolution to bring the details up to
reading level.

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=17035
84645


If you just want to see the picture:
http://imagehost.auctionwatch.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/dwc56/.mids/kix
16.JPG

S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17324 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: AM Pullmans
There were problems with the trucks on these cars. Some ran, some didn't.
Mine never have and I'
m convinced they never will until the trucks are replaced. No replacements
are currently available.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17325 From: Becker, Neil A Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Magnetic Cranes
I have two cranes. One has a silver smokestack and gray base. The other
has a black smokestack and black base. What are the AF numbers for these
guys? Thanks.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17326 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: I WANT . . .
You know, it seems to me that althought this list is not supposed to be a
spot to sell stuff, it certainly is a good place to let people know what you
are looking for. Since someone else posted about passenger cars, let me say
what I am hunting for.

I would like to find a set of Great Northern smooth side AM streamliners,
preferably unbuilt. I am also looking for a UP heavyweight business car
(w/obs. deck) PRIOR to silhouettes. I am interested in any full length cars
(80'+) in any roadname. There's more, but why swamp it?
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17327 From: Don Thompson Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: AM Pullmans
Dear Tom,
We have seen the Pullmans run on many layouts and modules with no problems.
But, I will admit they are very finicky about the track work. Also, many of these
cars had the trucks fall apart during shipping (they are easily put back together)
and if the center axle is not the ones with the blunt ends, the trucks would not
want to go around sharp curves.
Don

jarcho@... wrote:

> There were problems with the trucks on these cars. Some ran, some didn't.
> Mine never have and I'
> m convinced they never will until the trucks are replaced. No replacements
> are currently available.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 17328 From: riecherg Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: S-Trains list @ becoming a pain in the ...........
One of the other mailing lists I belong to moved from Yahoo to
smartgroups.com last fall. As I recall it was more for the list
owner/moderator (better list control, etc). But I just checked the web
access and didn't see any of the spam adds like Yahoo has started
doing.

Jerry
Group: S-Trains Message: 17329 From: Dennis Back Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: S-Trains list NOT a pain if you....
Here is my two cents. I have a Yahoo email account.
I read all individual email posts from S-trains (and
other mail) and my mail is sent to my Yahoo email
address.

I do NOT get ANY pop-ups at all!!! There IS a 1" x 6"
ad at the top of each email message. I have NEVER
gotten any pop-ups reading any of the email via Yahoo
email.

Hope this helps someone out.

Best,
Dennis
Miami

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17330 From: Doug Peck Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: Pullmor drivers
<<<<I have never replaced a tire before and don't feel very
ambitious to start on that one at the moment. Gluing one looks like a
handful to me? >>>>

And frankly, those replacement bands don't last all that long, but up til
now they were the only option (unless you were lucky enough to locate some
nice original PM drivers!).
But NOW, you can consider replacing the entire flanged rim with a new
vulcanized rubber PM rim. These have gone over very well, and guys come back
for more. Use them to replace worn PMs, or to ADD PM to a non-PM engine!
You can check em out on our website.
$15 / pair.

Doug Peck
Port Lines
portlines@...
www.portlines.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17331 From: Doug Peck Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: AFP
<<<Looking for the whereabouts of AFP, previously from around the
Detroit MI area. Can anyone tell me if Greg Craft (sp?) and his AFP is
still in business?>>>

Greg is no longer associated with AFP.
AFP is still in wholesale operation, but much slower to deal with.
Many items in their product line have been discontinued.

Doug Peck
Group: S-Trains Message: 17332 From: Robert Wight Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: pull more tires
Hi; I purchased a set of those new pull more tires. Very sinple to install.
From start to finish it took 45 minutes with crude tools to replace the
tires and the train running. The actuall tire swap its self only took three
to five minutes each. Using a modified battery pulller to pull the tires.
Knock the hub out. then white wall. assemble the new ones. Just took
minutes. Just mark your quartering. Also I have been running the devil out
of them and so far shows no were. Im so pleased, im going to order some more
in my next months train allowance. I put these on my 282. I have a grade on
my layout and it just pulled the cars up the grade lickety split. These
tires are very "grippy" as someone else had observed. I wouldnt be
apprehensive towards doing this fix. It is well worth it.

Happy railroading

Bob wight



>From: "Doug Peck" To: Subject: RE: [S-Trains] Pullmor drivers Date: Mon, 11
>Feb 2002 14:09:00 -0500
>
><<<>ambitious to start on that one at the moment. Gluing one looks like a
>handful to me? >>>>
>
>And frankly, those replacement bands don't last all that long, but up til
>now they were the only option (unless you were lucky enough to locate some
>nice original PM drivers!). But NOW, you can consider replacing the entire
>flanged rim with a new vulcanized rubber PM rim. These have gone over very
>well, and guys come back for more. Use them to replace worn PMs, or to ADD
>PM to a non-PM engine! You can check em out on our website. $15 / pair.
>
>Doug Peck Port Lines portlines@... www.portlines.com

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17333 From: jnr59@aol.com Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: American Models 6-wheel truck 80' Pullman cars
I would think so......perhaps we could all let Ron B at AM know our interest
level?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17334 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Pop-Up Ads
I'm on a cable modem system and I go from message to message using
the NEXT button. The messages and ads load instantaneously, so it
only takes a click to blow past the full page ads. I don't have a
problem with this.

Just to cure my curiosity, how long does it take the pages to load
via 56k modem? Is that what you guys are complaining about?

Curious minds wanna know - back to reading my Enquirer.

BG1
Group: S-Trains Message: 17335 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: POP UP ADS
I have AOL & never see any Pop Up Ads. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17336 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: pressed wood question
Hey guys,

I picked up an odd one this weekend. It's a pressed wood flat with a log
load. Much of the paint is gone, but I can make out R.Y. 42597. The weird
thing is that it has knuckle trucks. The rivets look original. Was it left
over stock?

I couldn't resist a 287 Pacific, 931 gondola, this wood car, and a 24603
caboose for $35. It was this or go home after 3 hours of driving almost
empty handed.

Jacques
Group: S-Trains Message: 17337 From: Dan Brindell Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Helix pix
A few weeks ago there was an exchange on the list about how to build a
helix. There's a company that makes helix kits, the product is called
Easy-Helix. I'm not sure if it could be made to work with S or not, but you
might get some ideas just by looking at their photos. The web site is:
www.trainstyles.com

Dan Brindell
Group: S-Trains Message: 17338 From: bassflyer Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: Cable modems vs. 56k modems....
According to my friend, who works as a computer nut at a state
university, and has just hooked up to a cable modem, and he tells me
it is about 256 compared to my 56k modem!! And I have seen how fast
it is compared to mine.
As I stated in an earliar post, I normally just kept clicking
on "NEXT", and went through all the posts, skipping any I didn't want
to read,...but lately I have been choosing posts from the message
list that I want to read. However,..then I have to hit "BACK", to get
back to the list of messages. The ads pop up before the message at
certain times, therefore an extra click forward and two clicks back
to the list. Even just clicking "NEXT" for each message, an ad pops
up most of the time.
That is what bugs me! But now I just scroll down after expanding
the messages.
Not that I am in THAT much of a hurry, but all those
extra "clicks" add up!! Those ads don't load all that fast with a 56k
modem with 500MHZ.

Still love the S-Trains list though!! Won't give it up!!


Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17339 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Yahoo-UP merger
If they merged would they change the slogan to "Do U P"?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17340 From: bassflyer Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: pressed wood question
Jollivier... wrote:
***(((I picked up an odd one this weekend. It's a pressed wood flat
with a log load. Much of the paint is gone, but I can make out R.Y.
42597. The weird thing is that it has knuckle trucks. The rivets
look original. Was it left over stock?)))***

According to Greenberg, the #928 C.&N.W.RY. 42597 log car, made
1952-54, came with a diecast or pressed-wood body and came with
knuckle couplers.

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17341 From: Euell Johnson Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: Yahoo-UP merger
That would be like a Fed Ex, UPS merger wouldn't it? THen we would all be
FEDUP!
EJ


----- Original Message -----
From: <boss31@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 10:08 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Yahoo-UP merger


> If they merged would they change the slogan to "Do U P"?
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17342 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Lost clubs and people
Hi Everyone. I need some help locating some clubs and people. Below is a list
of people we have received mail back as undeliverable. If anyone knows of
these clubs or people, could you please help me get in touch with them.
Thanks, Chris the trainnut from the Miami Valley S-Gaugers

RETURNED LETTERS FROM 2002 SPREE MAILINGS

Sn3 Narrow Gauge Society of Tucson
Roger Russell
9880 N. Desert Sky Road
Tucson, AZ 85727

Jess Smith
Bay Area S Scalers
300 S. Raymond
Pasadena, CA 91105

Durango Sn3 Fellowship
Andy Pierce
3307 E. 5th Avenue

Galen Eli Hoover
14571 Bianca Lane
Berlin, OH 44610

Ronald L. Inscho
126 Bland Avenue
Bucyrus, OH 44820-1201



Ronald Stanton
1201 Colony Drive #2S
Zanesville, OH 43701-0000


Larry Bevington
5241 Erwin Street
Maple Heights, OH 44137-1527
Group: S-Trains Message: 17343 From: notcoldenough Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel detector
"Horn, David" <david.horn@b...> wrote:
> Since it is described as IFR, then is it fair to assume it will
work equally well regardless of room lighting conditions (i.e. dark
or lit)?

I've been using two Lionel detectors since last fall. Seem to work
okay with room lights on or off. While I have not experienced it, I
wouldn't be surprised if very bright ambient light might cause some
improper operation even with IR detectors. Lionel's detectors have
sensitivity control which could be used to mitigate this.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17344 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: pressed wood question
In a message dated 2/11/02 10:09:55 PM, Jollivier4@... writes:

<< It's a pressed wood flat with a log load. Much of the paint is gone, but
I can make out R.Y. 42597. The weird thing is that it has knuckle trucks.
The rivets look original. >>

Jacques,

Sounds like a description of a No. 928 Bakelite/Plaskon flat to me. <g>

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 17345 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: junker shells
If you need some steamer shells in rough shape for kitbashing contact me off
list.

>Keith

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17346 From: notcoldenough Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: 740 Handcar sluggish
Need your help.

My 740 handcar runs nicely when both men removed. When I put the men
back on, the car barely runs.

The unit was recently lubed, and commutator cleaned. Resistance of
the field & armature are in spec (thanks to Hannon's book).

The two rubber men are original and seem stiff or hard. My guess is
that replacement men would solve the problem.

Any other ideas or thoughts would be appreciated.

John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 17347 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: R.Y. 42597
R.Y. 42597.w/ knuckle trucks.

I have a 10 year old Greenberg says this thing is worth 1100 bucks!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17348 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Re: R.Y. 42597
>R.Y. 42597.w/ knuckle trucks.
>I have a 10 year old Greenberg says this thing is worth 1100 bucks!

Oops, I meant 11.00 bucks.
Shaddup Greenberg!
Ah, whaddya expect from a kid?


Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17349 From: David Dewey Date: 2/11/2002
Subject: Another Beautiful repaint
Same Seller, looks like same level of detailing.

http://www.cableone.net/aztrains/310a.jpg

S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17350 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: pressed wood question
My pressed wood 928 came with the 1952
knuckle coupler freight set headed by
the 4-8-4 Northern. That was the first
year for knuckle couplers. The 928 was in poor
condition as the paint didn't wear well
on the pressed wood. I paid $75 to
replace it with one in excellent condition.
Greenberg today lists the 928 at
$22 in good condtion and $70 in excellent
condition.

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn

Jollivier... wrote:
***(((I picked up an odd one this weekend. It's a pressed wood flat
with a log load. Much of the paint is gone, but I can make out R.Y.
42597. The weird thing is that it has knuckle trucks. The rivets
look original. Was it left over stock?)))***
Group: S-Trains Message: 17351 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Long passenger cars
Funny how when one guy is looking for 80' scale length cars, suddenly a
whole bunch of folks chime in. People are writing me, saying: "If you do
come across some 80 footers, remember me." Well, sure I will. But what
about Ron Bashista?

Didn't he say that nobody wanted 80 foot cars? Didn't he scrap the Zephyr
Domeliner because "nobody" wanted the long cars and blamed this list for
poo-pooing the project?

Hey, Ron! Judging from the letters I'm getting, I think there may be some
substantial support for the project. Why don't you dust it off and give it
another try? Only, this time, try collecting a hundred bucks in front.
That may have been the put off, paying so much up front. Lots of people,
myself included, want the train but buy it after it has been produced. The
guys who are willing to put up $500 months in advance are a rare breed and
few in number. And you had quite a few of them. That should have told you
something. If you ask for $100 in front, you'll get a much bigger turnout
and a clearer picture of what a success it will be. PLUS, a bonus. By
tooling the domes, you will be able to make shorter domes as well to
supplement all the Budd sets you sold. They will surely sell out, and that
will further fund the whole project.

Now you're getting support from the list.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17352 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Czech this out
This auction is over, but it still is an interesting item to look at.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1700888911
It is an S gauge postwar Tinplate CzechTrolley, Item # 1700888911
"From IGRA Czechoslovakia - revel in the cold war nostalgia. Tinplate
clockwork trolley (like a Tatra) with plastic wheels. In like new condition.
Contains box and oval of track. S gauge, or very close to it. Runs great,
couldn't tell you when it was made, probably late 50's - early 60's."

Very tinplate looking. I've never seen anything quite like it.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17353 From: srgriggs Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: Long passenger cars
--- In S-Trains@y..., Chris Zizzo <busyboy@o...> wrote:
> Funny how when one guy is looking for 80' scale length cars,
suddenly a
> whole bunch of folks chime in. People are writing me, saying: "If
you do
> come across some 80 footers, remember me." Well, sure I will. But
what
> about Ron Bashista?
>
> Didn't he say that nobody wanted 80 foot cars?

I would put my name in for 80' Budd cars (or 80' heavyweights if they
are ever produced again). I built my layout to accomodate scale
length passenger cars and big steam locomotives, so I would love to
have a set of these.

I'll just have to avoid running 80' cars and Flyer passenger cars on
the layout at the same time. Seeing a the two side by side makes the
AF cars look kind of goofy when you see how short they are.

Scott Griggs
Group: S-Trains Message: 17354 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Funny E-Bay Listing of the Day
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1702627164

Here's an 0 and S gauge engine for your operating pleasure.
Remember, the seller started it out at 10 bucks. It's the bidders who
pumped it up.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17355 From: Horn, David Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: sluggish 740
I just repaired a 740 that was first DOA, and secondly wouldn't run with the
men installed. The DOA was due to a short between two of the commutator
segments. Once the short was remedied and the unit cleaned/lubed/tuned, the
thing ran great without the men aboard. The men, however, created other
issues. Both of them leaned pretty badly to one side or the other. I think
this handcar had been stored in a wrap instead of a box, forcing the men's
legs to buckle. One of the men was much shorter than usual, hard as rock,
and missing one "hand". The other was leaning, but reasonably pliable and
still had both hands. With the short one install the handcar's mechanism
was locked and could not move. The size, stature, and pliability of both
men have a lot to do with the resistance the motor must overcome to move the
cart. Reproduction men are available and probably represent the most
"authentic" way to go, but I modified the worst of the men to at least play
the part and get this handcart back on the rails for its owner. I removed
his legs and arms except for a ~5/32" stump in each case. Then I cut four
pieces of 1/8" diameter black electrical connection shrink-tubing such that
straight posture, and correct arm height and length were achieved. Next, I
Future Glued each new appendage to its respective stump. I slightly widened
the slots on the end of the rocker-arm such that the ends of his arms slide
some as the rocker goes up and down. Presto, while not looking exactly
"stock" he offers little resistance to the motor, and looks great playing
his part - - leaning back and forth as the unit travels down the track.
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17356 From: royhoffman Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: Long passenger cars
Scott,

The "scalers" wanted the 80 footers and Ron B. agreed to make them if
he got 100 reservations. The count stopped at 80 sets and it was
shelved. The NASG took heat by not picking up the remaining 20 sets.
However, your post points out a problem that we have. We have to
realize that AF or highrail and scale operators like yourself could
all like to have scale-length cars. If every part of S had gotten
involved, we probably would have had them.

Roy

--- In S-Trains@y..., "srgriggs" <sgriggs@u...> wrote:
>
> --- In S-Trains@y..., Chris Zizzo <busyboy@o...> wrote:
> > Funny how when one guy is looking for 80' scale length cars,
> suddenly a
> > whole bunch of folks chime in. People are writing me, saying:
"If
> you do
> > come across some 80 footers, remember me." Well, sure I will.
But
> what
> > about Ron Bashista?
> >
> > Didn't he say that nobody wanted 80 foot cars?
>
> I would put my name in for 80' Budd cars (or 80' heavyweights if
they
> are ever produced again). I built my layout to accomodate scale
> length passenger cars and big steam locomotives, so I would love to
> have a set of these.
>
> I'll just have to avoid running 80' cars and Flyer passenger cars
on
> the layout at the same time. Seeing a the two side by side makes
the
> AF cars look kind of goofy when you see how short they are.
>
> Scott Griggs
Group: S-Trains Message: 17357 From: plotnick Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Tips Wanted on Rewinding Steamer Field; Model Railoader
1. I am rewinding a steamer field. Any hints on how to do a neat job? Are
there any jigs I can make to do it easier and better?
2. I didn't see anyone else post this, but the February 2002 Model Railroader
had a "Trains of Thought" by Tony Koester called "A Sensible Size." It
reports on his visit to the 2001 NASG meeting. He calls S an "almost ideal
size." -Roy Plotnick

Roy E. Plotnick
Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences
University of Illinois at Chicago
845 W. Taylor St.
Chicago, Il .60607
phone: 312-996-2111 630-252-6377(May-August)
e-mail: plotnick@...
homepage: http://www.uic.edu/depts/geos/people/faculty/plotnick.html

"Those who do not know the literature are condemned to repeat it."
Group: S-Trains Message: 17358 From: David Dewey Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: Funny E-Bay Listing of the Day
Well, the 534 is very rare, but I don't think the postwar boiler front will
fit it. I believe the other parts are available.
I once had a chassis for this engine, think I sold it for $10!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17359 From: Linda & Ted Weiler Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: Long passenger cars
For what it is worth.

I think we all are looking for more than what was offered. I model the SP
(Cotton Belt) and would like coaches, etc. labeled for that line. The
California Zephyr sets are great, but not for me. With the limited sales
overall, it will be hard to please all of us. The club I'm in bought four
or five sets of the new Budd cars, and we all remarked on how good they are.

Anyone have any Daylight cars for sale??

Ted Weiler
Group: S-Trains Message: 17360 From: John Foley Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: RE; Lost clubs and people
Hi Chris
Did you try the club page at the NASG website?
http://www.nasg.org/sclubinfo.htm

Or the online members page
http://www.nasg.org/membersonline.html

John



Message: 1
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 23:34:22 EST
From: Cbtrainnut1@...
Subject: Lost clubs and people


Hi Everyone. I need some help locating some clubs and people. Below is a list
of people we have received mail back as undeliverable. If anyone knows of
these clubs or people, could you please help me get in touch with them.
Thanks, Chris the trainnut from the Miami Valley S-Gaugers
RETURNED LETTERS FROM 2002 SPREE MAILINGS
Sn3 Narrow Gauge Society of Tucson
Roger Russell
9880 N. Desert Sky Road
Tucson, AZ 85727
Jess Smith
Bay Area S Scalers
300 S. Raymond
Pasadena, CA 91105
Durango Sn3 Fellowship
Andy Pierce
3307 E. 5th Avenue
Galen Eli Hoover
14571 Bianca Lane
Berlin, OH 44610
Ronald L. Inscho
126 Bland Avenue
Bucyrus, OH 44820-1201
Ronald Stanton
1201 Colony Drive #2S
Zanesville, OH 43701-0000
Larry Bevington
5241 Erwin Street
Maple Heights, OH 44137-1527
Group: S-Trains Message: 17361 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: Funny E-Bay Listing of the Day
No matter how rare it may be, it is missing a trailing truck, a tender, a
smokebox front, most of it's paint and who knows what else. When it gets to
the junkbox stage, and this is a TCA "Poor" if ever I saw one, what does
rare have to do with it? It's not a one-of-a-kind Gilbert sample of an
unproduced engine. It is a production line toy in bad shape. The parts are
hard to get; the tender is nigh impossible (I've tried). What do you do
with it, display it as is? Very impressive.

At York, a seller had two of these in fairly pristine shape, TCA "Exc" I
would think, in the original set boxes, one with a great looking set of cast
heavyweights. They were pricey, maybe 8 or 900 dollars, about 3 years ago.
$175 for this piece of parts junk seems a bit much, and they're not done
yet!

Phooey on collectibles and double phooey on "Rare". Phooey I say.

Chris Zizzo

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
To: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>; "Chris Zizzo"
<busyboy@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Funny E-Bay Listing of the Day


> Well, the 534 is very rare, but I don't think the postwar boiler front
will
> fit it. I believe the other parts are available.
> I once had a chassis for this engine, think I sold it for $10!
> S'
> David D.
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17362 From: Gary Chidester Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Old S-Gaugian
I picked up several old ('72-'74) S-Gaugian magazines and have enjoyed
looking at how far and how much more expensive some items have come, but one
thing caught my attention that I wonder if it would be useful again.

The catalog was advertised as "Your Introduction to S Gauge". I know many
on this list are not new to S-gauge, but there are several that could
benefit from something like this that included all mail-order businesses
dealing in S-gauge. The catalog contained the following items that I list
from their ad:

The largest S-gauge catalog ever published is off the press and waiting for
you! now in a few seconds you can locate manufacturers and suppliers, clubs
and products all in one big book, which is already being labeled "The
S-Gauge bible."

The 60-page catalog is loaded with S product photos of many of the new S
gauge items released recently, a detailed report of all the S gauge products
from trackwork to rolling stock to structures. There's a listing of over 50
manufacturers and suppliers with their address and the products they sell.

Four pages of S scale plans help to make this a truly great catalog.


This is a lot longer than I anticipated, but wondered if there was enough
interest for S-Gaugian to bring back a golden idea.

gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 17363 From: Gary Chidester Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Mail-Order Only!
I recently found out my local (120 miles) train store owner is closing doors
to deal only on e-bay and some limited repair work from his home. Granted I
am not a huge buyer, but it was nice to stop in once or twice a month and
talk about a project, ask questions and see the new things he had found on a
buying trip or the latest from the new manufacturers. It was really nice to
pick up the few repair parts that I needed when I needed them. I will miss
the experience for more reasons than one!

Now my question. Since I will be ordering parts and supplies mail order,
who do you recommend? I had a slightly bad experience mail order already
and would not like to duplicate the experience.

Thanks in advance.

gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 17364 From: MARVD6848@aol.com Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: nickel plated body
this body came in a bid irecived the body was painted black and not of any
great intereste butt i seen some shine to it that was there and shoulden't
so i went to the wash rack and commenced to clean the body was imeresed in
boiling water along with my favorite cleaner SPIC &SPAN the engine showed
allthe color i was expecting nickel or crome but no name or number so if
any can help me i would appreaciate any and all info on this it apears the it
was set up with a4-6-4 wheel configuration and no numbers helllp
marvd
Group: S-Trains Message: 17365 From: royhoffman Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: NASG Project Announcement
I'm pleased to announce that the NASG BOT has approved two new
projects for 2002. They are not the normal cars (cars will come
later) but two new and distinctly different structure kits. One is
for the steam-to- modern era and the other is for the modern era.

The most important thing about these kits is that they are plastic
and modular which means they can be built up in many different
configurations. Modules to extend or expand them will also be
available so the modeler will only be restricted by their
imagination.

One kit is similar to the City Classics 103 Smallman St. Warehouse:
http://store.yahoo.com/internettrains/citclassmals.html

The other one is similar to the Rix Pikestuff products:
http://www.rixproducts.com/multi.htm

We feel that they will be of higher quality that their HO
counterparts and very easy to build.

More information will be made available as the final details are
worked out. The kits will be competitively priced with the other
scales.

These kits will further round out a growing list of products being
offered in S and make us ever more attractive to prospective converts
from other scales. A lot of people worked hard to bring these kits to
reality and we owe a debt of gratitude to all of them.

Roy
Group: S-Trains Message: 17366 From: crustyfour Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Camelback
Here's a strange one, a camelback made from an Atlantic:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1703646263

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 17367 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: NASG Project Announcement
Roy Hoffman said:
>NASG BOT has approved two new projects for 2002.

Roy:
Structures like this, especially the warehouse, are long overdue and should
be immediately sucked into the vacuum of this needful market. Great idea.
I wish those Walther's Cornerstone structures fit better in S.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17368 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: Camelback
Steve Blancard noticed something on E-Bay:
>Here's a strange one, a camelback made from an Atlantic:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1703646263

And it's built by one of our own from this list.
I'll let him speak for himself.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17369 From: bob_massie Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: Long passenger cars
The walls are up and they're putting up the upstairs floor where my
trains will go in my new garage. That said, I'm starting to plan how
to use the space.

A couple weeks back when I joined you, I mentioned that in my last S
venture I had some of the AM 85' smooth sided cars. I still have
them. I used the truck-mounted couplers and converted one or two to
truck-mounted Kadee's with the simple addition of a sheet metal arm
and a piece of wire (like a grab iron) that kept the coupler from
drooping. Had I the time, I might have even worked out a "close
coupling" device similar to that used by Rowa on its Eurpoean cars.
My point is that you CAN use full-length cars on relatively sharp (I
think I had 26" r minimum) curves.

I tend to hide my end-of-table turnarounds anyhow, so if there's not
a derailment problem, I'm good to go for appearance sake. I would
love it if we could get the "proper" smooth sided ICRR cars to match
that beautiful E-8 in chocolate and orange. (You may have figured
out that I'm leaning toward selling the AF MoPac set I talked about a
while back...but I STILL haven't reached 100% certainty!) What would
it take to get AM to run them again? If they don't, I do like the
Budd cars, and may someday spring for a set. Oh, and I received an e-
mail that AM had a few SP Daylight smooth sides available.

Here's a semi-related question: can the silhouettes (sp?) be removed
from the standard cars? They remind me of PRR/PC four-axled cars I
saw on a Chicago-Northern Indiana PC commuter train in the mid- to
late-seventies. Might be worth a thought in the modeling department
with an undec E-8 or FP-7 as a starting point. Easy paint job,
that's for sure! Or adding a standard coach or two to a couple ATSF
Budd cars to go behind my sentimental favorite ATSF PA1 (AF 360).

Now, if we only had a modular building system--or at least personnel
doors and windows to supplement the O or HO DPM system--we'd be in
like flint!

Grins,
Bob Massie

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Linda & Ted Weiler" <tjweiler@g...> wrote:
> For what it is worth.
>
> I think we all are looking for more than what was offered. I model
the SP
> (Cotton Belt) and would like coaches, etc. labeled for that line.
The
> California Zephyr sets are great, but not for me. With the limited
sales
> overall, it will be hard to please all of us. The club I'm in
bought four
> or five sets of the new Budd cars, and we all remarked on how good
they are.
>
> Anyone have any Daylight cars for sale??
>
> Ted Weiler
Group: S-Trains Message: 17370 From: bob_massie Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: NASG Project Announcement
Man, I just mentioned this in another post on passenger cars!
Shoulda read further first, I guess!

Massie sends....


--- In S-Trains@y..., Chris Zizzo <busyboy@o...> wrote:
> Roy Hoffman said:
> >NASG BOT has approved two new projects for 2002.
>
> Roy:
> Structures like this, especially the warehouse, are long overdue
and should
> be immediately sucked into the vacuum of this needful market.
Great idea.
> I wish those Walther's Cornerstone structures fit better in S.
>
> Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17371 From: David Dewey Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: Funny E-Bay Listing of the Day
Chris,
Well, I guess it's just another example of the eBay effect. I have
noticed that parts that normally get put in a "$5 for all" box go for over
$25 each their!
I don't know how rare that loco may be in your area, just know a lot of
the prewar stuff is made of pot metal that is crumbling.
S
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17372 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Short Passenger Cars
Scott,

I think some roads did use shorter cars on some "branch lines". So, it's which car, and how it's used as to how "goofy" it would look.

> "I'll just have to avoid running 80' cars and Flyer passenger cars on
the layout at the same time. Seeing a the two side by side makes the
AF cars look kind of goofy when you see how short they are.

Scott Griggs"<





---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17373 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 2/12/2002
Subject: Re: Tips Wanted on Rewinding Steamer Field; Model Railoader
Roy, there is a fairly new book titled "S-Gauge Reference Manual" by Robert
Hannon. It covers rewingings of AF fields and armatures, etc. You can
contact Bob at "hannon@..." or visit his web sit at
"http://www.trainrefs.com" . He should be able to answer any questions you
might have on rewinding your field.
Harwood


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17374 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: This week end show
We here in the Phila. region have a wild train weekend ahead of us. There is a Greenberg show at Fort Washington and the New GATS organization has a new show at Valley Forge. Both of these are suburbs of Phila. and are 2 exits (approx. 10 miles) apart on the Turnpike. So, if you want to see double the number of vendors and layouts usually offered at one train meet, come see us!

PHM will have a booth at the Valley Forge Convention Center. We hope to have available our new Reading crossing shanty, if they get finished on time! Like our Privies, no layout can do without these! Stop by and say hello.


Tom Doherty
Pennsylvania Heritage Models, Ltd.
http://www.paheritagemodels.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17375 From: Frederick Raab Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Shelburne Museum AF layout
February 12, 2002

Can anyone recall an article in the "S Gaugian" that features the AF
layout that Gilbert built at the Shelburne (Vermont) Museum? It may have
been part of an article that included other such layouts. The Museum is
considering recreating the layout and needs information. Thanks.

With best regards,
Frederick H. (Fritz) Raab
Group: S-Trains Message: 17376 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Tie-Ejector ties
Hello, Does anyone have the dimensions of the ties that would go with this
AF car? Thanks
Ken Stoudt

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 17377 From: srgriggs Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Silver Flash paint mask on eBay
Check it out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1705213496

Apparently, this piece of tooling was purchased at the Lionel factory
auction last year. No telling what it will go for.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17378 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Re: Tie-Ejector ties
I made mine 1/4" x 1/4" x 1 3/4" from black plastic. Developed by trial
and error, don't know if these are same as original dimensions but they
work.

"Stoudt,Kenneth R." wrote:
>
> Hello, Does anyone have the dimensions of the ties that would go with this
> AF car? Thanks
> Ken Stoudt
>
> +
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17379 From: af21115 Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Re: Silver Flash paint mask on eBay
This is the fourth or fifth time he's tried to sell that thing. Its
never drawn much interest, and never met reserve. His highest bid
obtained to date is about $177. Should have taken that and ran.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17380 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Re: Silver Flash paint mask on eBay
There was one on a few weeks ago for a Santa Fe Alco I believe, and if I remember
right, it brought near $1000. I'd love to get one to do repaints, but that kind of
price is certainly out of my range. Maybe we could get Doug Peck to do a repro mask
for hobbyists at a reasonable price! LOL.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


srgriggs wrote:

> Check it out:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1705213496
>
> Apparently, this piece of tooling was purchased at the Lionel factory
> auction last year. No telling what it will go for.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17381 From: Knight, Gene Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: layout question
I see many different pictures of layouts...some of them your own. What
do some of you use as a base...what do you lay your track on (besides
the obvious rubber roadbed)....is it painted.....the old fashioned grass
mat.....do you use homosote to deaden the sound? I have four sheets of
waferboard layed out in a U and it needs to be redone. I had green felt
which looks nice but it collects too much dust etc.

Thanks!

Gene
Group: S-Trains Message: 17382 From: rodgers_carl Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Re: Silver Flash paint mask on eBay
What special talent or manufacturing ability, does Doug Peck have
that would enable him to produce a professional paint mask?

Carl


--- In S-Trains@y..., "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@i...> wrote:
> There was one on a few weeks ago for a Santa Fe Alco I believe, and
if I remember
> right, it brought near $1000. I'd love to get one to do repaints,
but that kind of
> price is certainly out of my range. Maybe we could get Doug Peck
to do a repro mask
> for hobbyists at a reasonable price! LOL.
>
> Roger Petrella
> Franktown, CO
>
>
> srgriggs wrote:
>
> > Check it out:
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1705213496
> >
> > Apparently, this piece of tooling was purchased at the Lionel
factory
> > auction last year. No telling what it will go for.
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-
unsubscribe@Y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17383 From: rodgers_carl Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Re: Tie-Ejector ties
What did you make them from and why? Aren't correct sized repros
available?

Carl


--- In S-Trains@y..., Chuck Smith <cesmith@e...> wrote:
> I made mine 1/4" x 1/4" x 1 3/4" from black plastic. Developed by
trial
> and error, don't know if these are same as original dimensions but
they
> work.
>
> "Stoudt,Kenneth R." wrote:
> >
> > Hello, Does anyone have the dimensions of the ties that would go
with this
> > AF car? Thanks
> > Ken Stoudt
> >
> > +
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-
unsubscribe@Y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> --
> Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
> and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
>
> "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
> than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17384 From: Neil Trump Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: paint masks
What's interesting about the topic on paint masks, is that we all know now
that these particular liveries are not going to be reproduced again, well
most unlikely.

So we have all suddenly discovered that what's out there is it, no more!

Neil T.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17385 From: richgajnak Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Re: Long passenger cars
Chris Zizzo wrote:
>Only, this time, try collecting a hundred bucks in front.
>That may have been the put off, paying so much up front. Lots of
>people, myself included, want the train but buy it after it has been
>produced. The guys who are willing to put up $500 months in advance
>are a rare breed and few in number. And you had quite a few of
>them. That should have told you something. If you ask for $100 in
>front, you'll get a much bigger turnout and a clearer picture of
>what a success it will be.

Yeah, it was a chunk of dough.

Actually, Ron asked for a $100 deposit initially, with the $500
balance due when the tooling was to be started. This would have
gotten us early birds 10 full lenght passenger cars for 60 bucks
apiece. That is 10-15 bucks less than the current 72' cars go for.

Ron also stated as a reason for shelving the CZ project was the
declining economy, which was just as well, because I got caught up in
the downturn, and would have been hard pressed to justify continuing
with my final payment at that time.

Rich G.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17386 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Re: Tie-Ejector ties
Don't know if repros are available. I made these about 10 or more years
ago, before I owned a PC, from black plastic, styrene I think. Stock
was 1/8" thick so I laminated 2 layers to make 1/4" square by 1 3/4"
long. They must be close to correct size because they just nicely fit
in the opening in the car. I probably made them in less time than it
would take to find and order them.

rodgers_carl wrote:
>
> What did you make them from and why? Aren't correct sized repros
> available?
>
> Carl
>
> --- In S-Trains@y..., Chuck Smith <cesmith@e...> wrote:
> > I made mine 1/4" x 1/4" x 1 3/4" from black plastic. Developed by
> trial
> > and error, don't know if these are same as original dimensions but
> they
> > work.
> >
> > "Stoudt,Kenneth R." wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello, Does anyone have the dimensions of the ties that would go
> with this
> > > AF car? Thanks
> > > Ken Stoudt
> > >
> > > +
> > >
> > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> > >
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-
> unsubscribe@Y...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> > --
> > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
> > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
> >
> > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
> > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17387 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Re: Silver Flash paint mask on eBay
C'mon, read all the text! That was a joke. Just seems that Doug reproduces a lot of
what we want and lets us on the list know it's available. Glad he does reproduce
lots of the missing pieces.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


rodgers_carl wrote:

> What special talent or manufacturing ability, does Doug Peck have
> that would enable him to produce a professional paint mask?
>
> Carl
>
> --- In S-Trains@y..., "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@i...> wrote:
> > There was one on a few weeks ago for a Santa Fe Alco I believe, and
> if I remember
> > right, it brought near $1000. I'd love to get one to do repaints,
> but that kind of
> > price is certainly out of my range. Maybe we could get Doug Peck
> to do a repro mask
> > for hobbyists at a reasonable price! LOL.
> >
> > Roger Petrella
> > Franktown, CO
> >
> >
> > srgriggs wrote:
> >
> > > Check it out:
> > >
> > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1705213496
> > >
> > > Apparently, this piece of tooling was purchased at the Lionel
> factory
> > > auction last year. No telling what it will go for.
> > >
> > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> > >
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-
> unsubscribe@Y...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17388 From: Don Thompson Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Re: Silver Flash paint mask on eBay
Dear Roger,
You have to understand that some of the JCLs do not know what LOL means.
Don

"Roger V. Petrella Jr." wrote:

> C'mon, read all the text! That was a joke. Just seems that Doug reproduces a lot of
> what we want and lets us on the list know it's available. Glad he does reproduce
> lots of the missing pieces.
>
> Roger Petrella
> Franktown, CO
>
> rodgers_carl wrote:
>
> > What special talent or manufacturing ability, does Doug Peck have
> > that would enable him to produce a professional paint mask?
> >
> > Carl
> >
> > --- In S-Trains@y..., "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@i...> wrote:
> > > There was one on a few weeks ago for a Santa Fe Alco I believe, and
> > if I remember
> > > right, it brought near $1000. I'd love to get one to do repaints,
> > but that kind of
> > > price is certainly out of my range. Maybe we could get Doug Peck
> > to do a repro mask
> > > for hobbyists at a reasonable price! LOL.
> > >
> > > Roger Petrella
> > > Franktown, CO
> > >
> > >
> > > srgriggs wrote:
> > >
> > > > Check it out:
> > > >
> > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1705213496
> > > >
> > > > Apparently, this piece of tooling was purchased at the Lionel
> > factory
> > > > auction last year. No telling what it will go for.
>

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17389 From: rodgers_carl Date: 2/13/2002
Subject: Re: Silver Flash paint mask on eBay
Doug Peck dosn't reproduce anything, his words not mine. He got most
of his parts from RFG.

Carl


--- In S-Trains@y..., "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@i...> wrote:
> C'mon, read all the text! That was a joke. Just seems that Doug
reproduces a lot of
> what we want and lets us on the list know it's available. Glad he
does reproduce
> lots of the missing pieces.
>
> Roger Petrella
> Franktown, CO
>
>
> rodgers_carl wrote:
>
> > What special talent or manufacturing ability, does Doug Peck have
> > that would enable him to produce a professional paint mask?
> >
> > Carl
> >
> > --- In S-Trains@y..., "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@i...>
wrote:
> > > There was one on a few weeks ago for a Santa Fe Alco I believe,
and
> > if I remember
> > > right, it brought near $1000. I'd love to get one to do
repaints,
> > but that kind of
> > > price is certainly out of my range. Maybe we could get Doug
Peck
> > to do a repro mask
> > > for hobbyists at a reasonable price! LOL.
> > >
> > > Roger Petrella
> > > Franktown, CO
> > >
> > >
> > > srgriggs wrote:
> > >
> > > > Check it out:
> > > >
> > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=1705213496
> > > >
> > > > Apparently, this piece of tooling was purchased at the Lionel
> > factory
> > > > auction last year. No telling what it will go for.
> > > >
> > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> > > >
> > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-
> > unsubscribe@Y...
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-
unsubscribe@Y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17390 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: IC Smooth Sides
Bob Massie wrote:
<snip> I would love it if we could get the "proper" smooth sided
ICRR cars to match that beautiful E-8 in chocolate and orange. <snip>

Dear Bob:
Don Heimburger got AM to paint up a number of Smooth Side IC
Chocolate and Orange sets. Don purchased the entire run and then sold them
off. Although Don is not advertising them any more, he has a tendency to
have leftovers lurking in that warehouse of his.
Give him a call (708) 366-1973. He is worth a try. (Don't try
reach Don other than by phone.)

Thorin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17391 From: Thomas Stoltz Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: location
Train Gang:

I am being laid-off from my job here in Maine. I have a couple of options; one is in Marinette, Wisconsin, the other in New Orleans. I am looking at this from an S-trains point of view.
NASG has a number of members in New Orleans. In WI, although there are a lot of members, they all seem to be quite south of Marinette.
Does anybody have any comments about this?

Hate to leave Maine (although there are VERY few S people here),

Tom


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17392 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Alco PA armature testing
I have a AF Pa armature that appears to be OK. Is there a way to test it
electrically without putting it in a unit? Thanks for the help.
Ken Stoudt

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 17393 From: David Dewey Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: location
Thomas,
Well, it snows in Wisconsin, but I hear summers can be pleasant (all
four days!)
New Orleans sometimes has tropical storms and humid summers.
Tough choice!
Oh, and since you're from Maine; the people talk funny in both places.
Come to think of it, they talk!
;-)
S'
David D.
PS Good luck in your changes!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17394 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Most interestin' development
(Cross posted to 2 lists)

Well whaddya think of that?
I got some SPAM today from the organization that is raffling off the Harley
that was on the Leno Tonight Show. Every guest signed it with a silver
marker. Here is the list of all the prizes:

GRAND PRIZE:
2002 Harley-Davidson�
Road King�

1st Prize:
Hitachi 43" HD
Projection TV

2nd Prize:
(20) Lionel�
Collector Series
Train Sets

Looky Dere! Train sets as promotional giveaways again. Boys, I think we
just hit the mainstream. With all the commercials including trains, now a
Wendy's deal to make Lionel items part of a Kid's Meal program, it looks
like the general public may be rediscovering trains for real. I mean at the
Cabbage Patch, Razor Scooter, Tickle Me Elmo level. Maybe this Christmas,
if the frenzy gets built up enough.

Who's going to Toy Fair? We need to know the buzz!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17395 From: royhoffman Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: Most interestin' development
How about:

> 3rd Prize:
> (200) Lionel®
> Collector Series
> S gauge GN Cabooses
>

Roy

> GRAND PRIZE:
> 2002 Harley-Davidson®
> Road King®
>
> 1st Prize:
> Hitachi 43" HD
> Projection TV

> 2nd Prize:
> (20) Lionel®
> Collector Series
> Train Sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 17396 From: Don Thompson Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: Most interestin' development
Dear Chris,
We were supposed to go yesterday, but we decided that we were too bogged down
with the newsletter and current products to take the time away from the business.
Sorry, we had our badges and everything.
Don

Chris Zizzo wrote:

> (Cross posted to 2 lists)
>
> Well whaddya think of that?
> I got some SPAM today from the organization that is raffling off the Harley
> that was on the Leno Tonight Show. Every guest signed it with a silver
> marker. Here is the list of all the prizes:
>
> GRAND PRIZE:
> 2002 Harley-Davidson®
> Road King®
>
> 1st Prize:
> Hitachi 43" HD
> Projection TV
>
> 2nd Prize:
> (20) Lionel®
> Collector Series
> Train Sets
>
> Looky Dere! Train sets as promotional giveaways again. Boys, I think we
> just hit the mainstream. With all the commercials including trains, now a
> Wendy's deal to make Lionel items part of a Kid's Meal program, it looks
> like the general public may be rediscovering trains for real. I mean at the
> Cabbage Patch, Razor Scooter, Tickle Me Elmo level. Maybe this Christmas,
> if the frenzy gets built up enough.
>
> Who's going to Toy Fair? We need to know the buzz!
>
> Chris Zizzo

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 17397 From: Horn, David Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: yeah right.
Am I missing something or is this one banking on the old saying that a
sucker's born every minute.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1705697319



The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17398 From: af21115 Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: yeah right.
Hey Dave, check out the seller other acutions, it gets better. Me
thinks Granny needs a price guide.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17399 From: Doug Peck Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: Peck's parts
<<<Doug Peck dosn't reproduce anything, his words not mine. He got most
of his parts from RFG.
>>>

Please don't put words in my mouth.............
Both parts of this statement are untrue.
(a) I HAVE had some parts reproduced, although admittedly not a great
number. I primarily use other manufacturers and suppliers.....about 50
different ones!!!!
(b) I have NEVER obtained "most of my parts" from RFG, nor have I ever
stated that! I have, in the past, carried some RFG parts....no argument with
that. But "MOST"....no way.
And we no longer stock any RFG parts, except for remaining inventory. You'll
have to go direct to RFG for those items.

BTW....to my customers...PLEASE NOTE EMAIL ADDRESS CHANGE. I was just
notified TODAY that my current email address will be NO GOOD after March
15th! A lot of notice they give to businesses that depend heavily on
email!!!!
OUR NEW ADDRESS (I think it already works....not sure....) is
portlines@...

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supplies
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
www.portlines.com
portlines@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 17400 From: David Dewey Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: yeah right.--OOH! OOOH! I gotta have it!!
Hmm, came home from the AF club Christmas party gift exchange/steal with
one nicer than this! And the rules were "under $10"!
S
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17401 From: David Dewey Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: yeah right.
Hmm, well the CP flat car MIGHT be worth some. But without the trees, and
the stakes. . . . I'll have to watch this one, just to see how it turns out!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17402 From: rodgers_carl Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: Peck's parts
Sorry, but having parts reproduced and having the facilities and
doing the work yourself, are two different things, that was my point.

When I checked your online parts listing, you had "alot" of the repro
items listed with RFG in the listing. That was back when you sent me
the e-mails warning me about the other parts dealers.

I just think credit should go were credit is do, and if you can't say
something nice, don't say anything. My Grandma told me that.:)

It was only my observation, if I misstated it, I'm sorry.

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Doug Peck" <portlines@m...> wrote:
> <<<Doug Peck dosn't reproduce anything, his words not mine. He got
most
> of his parts from RFG.
> >>>
>
> Please don't put words in my mouth.............
> Both parts of this statement are untrue.
> (a) I HAVE had some parts reproduced, although admittedly not a
great
> number. I primarily use other manufacturers and suppliers.....about
50
> different ones!!!!
> (b) I have NEVER obtained "most of my parts" from RFG, nor have I
ever
> stated that! I have, in the past, carried some RFG parts....no
argument with
> that. But "MOST"....no way.
> And we no longer stock any RFG parts, except for remaining
inventory. You'll
> have to go direct to RFG for those items.
>
> BTW....to my customers...PLEASE NOTE EMAIL ADDRESS CHANGE. I was
just
> notified TODAY that my current email address will be NO GOOD after
March
> 15th! A lot of notice they give to businesses that depend heavily on
> email!!!!
> OUR NEW ADDRESS (I think it already works....not sure....) is
> portlines@a...
>
> Doug Peck
> Port Lines Hobby Supplies
> 6 Storeybrooke Drive
> Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
> www.portlines.com
> portlines@a...
Group: S-Trains Message: 17403 From: ironhors@swbell.net Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: IC Smooth Sides
"Marty.Thorin" wrote:

> Bob Massie wrote:
> <snip> I would love it if we could get the "proper" smooth sided
> ICRR cars to match that beautiful E-8 in chocolate and orange. <snip>
>
> Dear Bob:
> Don Heimburger got AM to paint up a number of Smooth Side IC
> Chocolate and Orange sets. Don purchased the entire run and then sold them
> off. Although Don is not advertising them any more, he has a tendency to
> have leftovers lurking in that warehouse of his.
> Give him a call (708) 366-1973. He is worth a try. (Don't try
> reach Don other than by phone.)
>
> Thorin
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

How about Dennis Sautters, Lazer Horizons??? If you don't have a June 2001 DISPATCH
handy (page 13), we can fill in the blanks.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17404 From: Bruce Papky Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Tie-Ejector ties.
In response to recent postings...

I purchased a 25071 tie 'jector car in Scranton last July, and then a
set of four repro ties from Doug Peck. I can't remember the price, but
it was very reasonable.

By the way, I'm still looking for a track trip for it. If anyone has a
spare for sale, please contact me off-list. Thanks.

Bruce.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17405 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Peck's parts
I have been dealing with Doug Peck for many years; most of us on this list
have. I have found him to be competent, conscientious, efficient, honest,
very well informed, and committed to the growth of the hobby. He is always
on the lookout for new products and services that increase our fun with S
trains.

I really don't care for people heaping asparagus on him like that.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17406 From: Robert Wight Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: Peck's parts
Theres good and bad in everything. There is some not so good parts dealers
and some realy good ones. Doug IS one of the good ones. He is very well
respected on the list. He is appreciated alot. Please rethink this. This
must of been a misunderstanding that evolved to the eyes of all. Thats the
reason I spoke up. We have some good parts guys on here and Doug is one of
them.
Bob Wight


>From: "rodgers_carl" <rodgers_carl@...>
>To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Peck's parts
>Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:25:21 -0000
>
>Sorry, but having parts reproduced and having the facilities and
>doing the work yourself, are two different things, that was my point.
>
>When I checked your online parts listing, you had "alot" of the repro
>items listed with RFG in the listing. That was back when you sent me
>the e-mails warning me about the other parts dealers.
>
>I just think credit should go were credit is do, and if you can't say
>something nice, don't say anything. My Grandma told me that.:)
>
>It was only my observation, if I misstated it, I'm sorry.
>
>--- In S-Trains@y..., "Doug Peck" <portlines@m...> wrote:
> > <<<Doug Peck dosn't reproduce anything, his words not mine. He got
>most
> > of his parts from RFG.
> > >>>
> >
> > Please don't put words in my mouth.............
> > Both parts of this statement are untrue.
> > (a) I HAVE had some parts reproduced, although admittedly not a
>great
> > number. I primarily use other manufacturers and suppliers.....about
>50
> > different ones!!!!
> > (b) I have NEVER obtained "most of my parts" from RFG, nor have I
>ever
> > stated that! I have, in the past, carried some RFG parts....no
>argument with
> > that. But "MOST"....no way.
> > And we no longer stock any RFG parts, except for remaining
>inventory. You'll
> > have to go direct to RFG for those items.
> >
> > BTW....to my customers...PLEASE NOTE EMAIL ADDRESS CHANGE. I was
>just
> > notified TODAY that my current email address will be NO GOOD after
>March
> > 15th! A lot of notice they give to businesses that depend heavily on
> > email!!!!
> > OUR NEW ADDRESS (I think it already works....not sure....) is
> > portlines@a...
> >
> > Doug Peck
> > Port Lines Hobby Supplies
> > 6 Storeybrooke Drive
> > Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
> > www.portlines.com
> > portlines@a...
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
>s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17407 From: Doug Peck Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: parts
Let me clarify one more thing about my statement....before someone
miscontrues that as well.

The fact that we no longer carry RFG products is NOT a reflection upon the
quality of those products! If I had a problem with product quality, I would
never have carried the item in the first place! I am a stickler for quality,
and always carry the best quality part possible, even if it costs a bit
more.
Bob and I simply "parted ways" due to a simple difference of opinion about
other matters that do not need discussion here. Now, when someone needs a
part (of his) which I no longer have in stock, I refer them to RFG directly.
Enough.

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supplies
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
www.portlines.com
portlines@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 17408 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: yeah right.
Hey, you guys, this person must be on this list, since the "buy it now" was
lowered to $60 from $100 for the Jersey cover hopper which goes for $28, E
grade, in the TM book and this is a "wonderful" example of a E grade. Quit
insulting the other members pricing and marketing techniques. LOL!! Some
fool might of paid $100 for it!

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "af21115" <Dave0616@...>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: yeah right.


> Hmm, well the CP flat car MIGHT be worth some. But without the trees, and
> the stakes. . . . I'll have to watch this one, just to see how it turns
out!
> S'
> David D.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17409 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: Tie-Ejector ties.
Triple S Parts carries the track trip for that car and probably other
suppliers.

The ties measure a quarter inch all 4 sides and 1 and 7/8th inch long, brown
color, not black, as somebody else mention earliest.

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Papky" <bpapky@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 6:03 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Tie-Ejector ties.


> In response to recent postings...
>
> I purchased a 25071 tie 'jector car in Scranton last July, and then a
> set of four repro ties from Doug Peck. I can't remember the price, but
> it was very reasonable.
>
> By the way, I'm still looking for a track trip for it. If anyone has a
> spare for sale, please contact me off-list. Thanks.
>
> Bruce.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17410 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Model Train Parts Reproductions Accessories Sets Tracks Cars
http://www.ssstrains.com/
For the person looking for the track trip for the Tie car, this the website for Triple S. Search is by part number only, which I don't know, but email them with what you are looking for and I am sure they will respond to you.

Maybe Doug Peck has it. I mentioned Triple S because I got one from them at York several years ago.

Of course, for, let see, on Ebay I could get......it's still sealed in the bag.....$100, $125... Just teasing, good luck.
Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17411 From: Steve Blancard Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: yeah right.
I just bought the exact same one on Ebay last week for $11.00 ! Boy did I get a
steal.

Steve Blancard

"Horn, David" wrote:

> Am I missing something or is this one banking on the old saying that a
> sucker's born every minute.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1705697319
>
> The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
> the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
> contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
> this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
> views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
> the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
> immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
> of this message.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17412 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: Most interestin' development
I was there Monday. Did not see anything great on MTH display. Lionel had
some S Gauge on display. I remember a set of (NYC)PAs with some passenger
cars. Price was around 360. as I recall.

I think you can see the same displays at the Hobby Show coming up in Fort
Washington.

Other than that, I didn't see too much. The diecast offerings were
everywhere. This is a very big afair, so if there are specific questions,
I'll try to respond. I toured some vendors at both the Javitts center and
the Toy Fair Building so I was moving fast!
Tom D>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Thompson" <robin@...>
To: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
Cc: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Most interestin' development


> Dear Chris,
> We were supposed to go yesterday, but we decided that we were too
bogged down
> with the newsletter and current products to take the time away from the
business.
> Sorry, we had our badges and everything.
> Don
>
> Chris Zizzo wrote:
>
> > (Cross posted to 2 lists)
> >
> > Well whaddya think of that?
> > I got some SPAM today from the organization that is raffling off the
Harley
> > that was on the Leno Tonight Show. Every guest signed it with a silver
> > marker. Here is the list of all the prizes:
> >
> > GRAND PRIZE:
> > 2002 Harley-Davidson®
> > Road King®
> >
> > 1st Prize:
> > Hitachi 43" HD
> > Projection TV
> >
> > 2nd Prize:
> > (20) Lionel®
> > Collector Series
> > Train Sets
> >
> > Looky Dere! Train sets as promotional giveaways again. Boys, I think
we
> > just hit the mainstream. With all the commercials including trains, now
a
> > Wendy's deal to make Lionel items part of a Kid's Meal program, it looks
> > like the general public may be rediscovering trains for real. I mean at
the
> > Cabbage Patch, Razor Scooter, Tickle Me Elmo level. Maybe this
Christmas,
> > if the frenzy gets built up enough.
> >
> > Who's going to Toy Fair? We need to know the buzz!
> >
> > Chris Zizzo
>
> -- -- Don Thompson
> S Helper Service Inc.
> http://www.showcaseline.com
> 1.800.465.0303
> New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
> http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17413 From: David Dewey Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: Most interestin' development
Tom D.
I think this question will apply to many on the list.
Regarding die-cast stuff; are there many pre-'60s stuff in 1/64? It seems,
from what I find on the shelves out here, that most of the concentration is
on 70s and newer, or hot rods, or racing cars.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17414 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: 80 foot SHS/AM Heavyweights
S-scale SHS Erie 12-1Heavyweight passengercar
Item # 1705089523
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1705089523

Here's 1 long heavyweight! Seller is reliable, good guy.
Go for it.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17415 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: 80' Smooth sider
S-scale AM NYC Observation (Kit)
Item # 1703230914
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1703230914

Here's a streamliner for you
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17416 From: Doug Peck Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: Vacation!
For all our faithful (and sometimes overly patient!) customers out there----
We are closing tomorrow for a week, and headed west for sunny southern CA !

Will be back and re-opening on Monday, Feb 25th (HOPEFULLY......we're
flying United!)

Also, if you sent us an email message or order within the past week and
haven't heard back, we MAY not have received it.
Hard-drive croaked last Thursday, and we lost EVERYTHING.....100%.
(YES....we had a backup CD of our files..............but it failed too!)
We're slowly starting over here......... one more reason to get away for a
few days!

Take care, all!

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supplies
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please).
http://www.portlines.com
portlines@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 17417 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Hall of Science
I had the good fortune of growing up in NYC in the early to mid 50's. I
watched the GHS layout being built and of course visited many times
afterward. Went to Macy's, Gimbels,and yes even L during the Christmas
season. Moved to Fla in 1957. Anyone else have these memories of the GHS?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17418 From: jahoozdumm Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Re: Vacation!
Sure hope "sunny" So. Cal. is actually sunny when Doug gets here. It
may rain Sunday. Oh well, we gots lots of trains for him to look at...


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17419 From: David Dewey Date: 2/14/2002
Subject: Die-cast cars ,was "most interesting developement
HI all,
I've had a few responses from my post about what pre '60s vehicles may
be at the Toy Show, asking me what I'm looking for and offering to supply
some. I'm not looking for anything in particular, what I am curious about is
the trend of supply. Are the manufacturs doing more stuff or less. As the
original post was about the Toy Show, that is the place to find out what may
be produced for the coming year. That's all I'm looking for, info!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17420 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Most interestin' development
That is what I saw at the show also. There appeared to be a mind set that
cars from the 70's and 80's were the majority. I also didn'tsee too much new
in the truck / construction equipment linesfor 1/64.
TOm D.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
To: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>; "Don Thompson"
<robin@...>; <Thomas@...>
Cc: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Most interestin' development


> Tom D.
> I think this question will apply to many on the list.
> Regarding die-cast stuff; are there many pre-'60s stuff in 1/64? It
seems,
> from what I find on the shelves out here, that most of the concentration
is
> on 70s and newer, or hot rods, or racing cars.
> S'
> David D.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17421 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Tie-Ejector ties.
Thanks for the tip. I'll e-mail Doug. How was this car supposed to
function? Was there a series of trips to drop off a tie every so often?
What did the trip look like? Thanks again
Ken Stoudt

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Papky [mailto:bpapky@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 6:04 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Tie-Ejector ties.


In response to recent postings...

I purchased a 25071 tie 'jector car in Scranton last July, and then a
set of four repro ties from Doug Peck. I can't remember the price, but
it was very reasonable.

By the way, I'm still looking for a track trip for it. If anyone has a
spare for sale, please contact me off-list. Thanks.

Bruce.


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



+

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 17422 From: ljack70117@adelphia.net Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Silver Flash paint mask on eBay
A new one would probably run you $500.
Thank you
Larry Jackman

af21115 wrote:
>
> This is the fourth or fifth time he's tried to sell that thing. Its
> never drawn much interest, and never met reserve. His highest bid
> obtained to date is about $177. Should have taken that and ran.
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17423 From: ljack70117@adelphia.net Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Silver Flash paint mask on eBay
I doubt that Doug could do it himself. You need special machines and
plating tanks to do these. But He could have a company in Medford Or. do
it for him. There are other companies that do it also. I have made a
couple. I did not do it myself but had this company do it for me. Like
the man who built the Brooklyn bridge, He stood on the river bank and
watched them build it from his plans and gets credit for building it. So
Doug could do the same thing.
In another e mail I will tell you how it is done
Thank you
Larry Jackman

rodgers_carl wrote:
>
> What special talent or manufacturing ability, does Doug Peck have
> that would enable him to produce a professional paint mask?
>
> Carl
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17424 From: ljack70117@adelphia.net Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Silver Flash paint mask on eBay
Hey, He has produced the AF repro milk container and jet engine canister
and selling under his name. Who do you think made the molds amd sold him
the Parts??? He i one of the good guys.
Thank you
Larry Jackman

"Roger V. Petrella Jr." wrote:
>
> C'mon, read all the text! That was a joke. Just seems that Doug reproduces a lot of
> what we want and lets us on the list know it's available. Glad he does reproduce
> lots of the missing pieces.
>
> Roger Petrella
> Franktown, CO
>
> rodgers_carl wrote:
>
> > What special talent or manufacturing ability, does Doug Peck have
> > that would enable him to produce a professional paint mask?
> >
> >
Group: S-Trains Message: 17425 From: ljack70117@adelphia.net Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Peck's parts
I totally disagree with this. When I was Smokey Valley in HO scale every
thing that Smokey Valley sold was made by Smokey Valley. I had a mold
maker making injection molds. I had several Pattern makers. Some stuff
was produced on my injection machine and some was produced on other
people's machines. I lost wax cast stanchions in to brass that came out
of my mold made by my mold maker in plastic. I caused them to be and
they were my production.
Who built your car, Ford? Using your reasoning Ford did not make it.
Parts came from all over the world. It was assembled by Ford.
Who built the Golden Gate Bridge? The man who engineered it gets the
credit for building it but he never laid a hand on it while it was being built.
If you use your money and your Ideas to produce something to be sold
under your name, then you made it regardless of where it came from or
who had a hand it producing it
Thank you
Larry Jackman

rodgers_carl wrote:
>
> Sorry, but having parts reproduced and having the facilities and
> doing the work yourself, are two different things, that was my point.
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17426 From: rfgiardina Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Tie-Ejector ties.
RFG "Manufactures" and has available both the Ties and the Trip. Both
are listed in the Action Car section of the Car Parts page of our
Online Catalog at: www.rfgco.com/catalog/

RFG



--- In S-Trains@y..., "Stoudt,Kenneth R." <STOUDTKR@a...> wrote:
> Thanks for the tip. I'll e-mail Doug. How was this car supposed to
> function? Was there a series of trips to drop off a tie every so
often?
> What did the trip look like? Thanks again
> Ken Stoudt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Papky [mailto:bpapky@s...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 6:04 PM
> To: S-Trains@y...
> Subject: [S-Trains] Tie-Ejector ties.
>
>
> In response to recent postings...
>
> I purchased a 25071 tie 'jector car in Scranton last July, and then
a
> set of four repro ties from Doug Peck. I can't remember the price,
but
> it was very reasonable.
>
> By the way, I'm still looking for a track trip for it. If anyone
has a
> spare for sale, please contact me off-list. Thanks.
>
> Bruce.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> +
>
> +
Group: S-Trains Message: 17427 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Location
Dear Tom:
I would allow weather to help influence your choice.
I haled from Iowa and moved to Connecticut 1984 - 1990. I grew up
with snow. I HATED the winters in Connecticut. It would snow but two days
later it was all gone. Back to gray, barren 'grass' and trees.
I moved to Wauwatosa, Wisconsin and the winters have been much more
wonderful.
So if you are used to snow, IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
If you are an outdoors type, the bugs are better in the north. The
killing frost does that to the insects. It is 37 (f) outside right now and
NO BUGS. The bugs will get going again in May and become bad in July but
the first frost in September kills them off. This makes Indian Summer a
wonderful 4 - 6 weeks.

There is S in Wisconsin but to my EXTREMELY limited knowledge it is
concentrated in the greater Milwaukee - Chicago - Beloit triangle. (These
are all host cities for the annual S-Fest which I enjoy greatly every year.)
I am a home body and don't leave unless I have to. There might be many,
many S Gaugers out there.

I invite you to Wisconsin!

Thorin

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:39:06 -0500
From: "Thomas Stoltz" <tstoltz@...>
Subject: location

Train Gang:

I am being laid-off from my job here in Maine. I have a couple of options;
one is in Marinette, Wisconsin, the other in New Orleans. I am looking at
this from an S-trains point of view.
NASG has a number of members in New Orleans. In WI, although there are a
lot of members, they all seem to be quite south of Marinette.
Does anybody have any comments about this?

Hate to leave Maine (although there are VERY few S people here),

Tom



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17428 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Peck's parts
Tom,
I agree 100%, Doug Peck is why we all can keep on truck'n with our
classic and customized AC Gilberts. Just like Dennis Carpenter of
Charlette, NC if you want to keep an old Ford rolling. THANK YOU DOUG
PECK, and family too !!!!! Steve J. --NASG

On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:07:11 -0500 jarcho@... writes:
> I have been dealing with Doug Peck for many years; most of us on this
> list
> have. I have found him to be competent, conscientious, efficient,
> honest,
> very well informed, and committed to the growth of the hobby. He is
> always
> on the lookout for new products and services that increase our fun
> with S
> trains.
>
> I really don't care for people heaping asparagus on him like that.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17429 From: rfgiardina Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: parts
I'm not sure how this got started, but I want to echo Dougs' words.
He and I had a long and good relationship. I was for many years happy
that Doug was able to carry as many of the parts that we manufacture
as he did.

RFG has for more than 20 years supplied parts to a large number of
suppliers. Trying to manufacture and retail parts, at trains shows
and in the mail, spread us too thin, causing delays, so dealers like
Doug helped us a great deal. Now that we have the bulk of the molds,
tools and dies completed, we can begin to focus on the retailing of
those parts.

I know that Dougs' goal and mine, has been to deliver the highest
quality parts and products. There are always bumps, curves and
changes along the way.

I hope this answers or settles what ever the question was.

Bob Giardina

www.rfgco.com

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Doug Peck" <portlines@m...> wrote:
> Let me clarify one more thing about my statement....before someone
> miscontrues that as well.
>
> The fact that we no longer carry RFG products is NOT a reflection
upon the
> quality of those products! If I had a problem with product quality,
I would
> never have carried the item in the first place! I am a stickler for
quality,
> and always carry the best quality part possible, even if it costs a
bit
> more.
> Bob and I simply "parted ways" due to a simple difference of
opinion about
> other matters that do not need discussion here. Now, when someone
needs a
> part (of his) which I no longer have in stock, I refer them to RFG
directly.
> Enough.
>
> Doug Peck
> Port Lines Hobby Supplies
> 6 Storeybrooke Drive
> Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
> www.portlines.com
> portlines@a...
Group: S-Trains Message: 17430 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Crazy E-Bay stuff
The lady selling the very valuable broken caboose also has an HO Life-Like
Toys-R-Us set for sale. Missing wheels, broken, played out cheap junk
trains that you would buy the lot of for $5 at a rummage sale, she has for
$60 starting bid with a $90 Buy It Now.

Talk about having no clue.

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1705704803

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17431 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Miller Power Trucks
To all:
I am looking for one Miller powered axle with the segmented wheels.
I understand this came scale only and they run like the wind.

The fantasy version has TWO Miller powered axles in a trolley truck.

Please contact me off-line if you have this for sale.

Just spotted today: Enhorning F Units, an A - A set and B shell with
Millers on E-Bay
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1704695468
but I don't want complete locomotives, just the trucks.

Thorin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17432 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Hall of Science
marpack57@... reminisces:
>I had the good fortune of growing up in NYC in the early to mid 50's. I
>watched the GHS layout being built and of course visited many times
>afterward. Went to Macy's, Gimbels,and yes even L during the Christmas
>season. Moved to Fla in 1957. Anyone else have these memories of the GHS?

My father took me to the Hall of Science (practically across the street from
where the Toy Fair Building is today), and I remember watching the trains
run. But it is all shrouded in a fog of childlike wonder. I was too young
to fix on details. I wish I could call up clear images like a photograph.
I saw an old display item recently that had several tiers of Flyer locos.
It was reported to be from the Hall of Science. When I saw it, I not only
remembered it, I remembered where it was in the room!

I got my first train set, my mother's story goes, when I was 2 years old.
Since I was born in '47, it would have been a '49 set. However, the oldest
catalog I have is a 1952, the one with no prices because of the Korean war.
Since Gilbert packed a catalog in with every set, I surmise my trains to
have come from 1952, or maybe, 1951 leftover stock. Mom always said that
when I was 2, they took me to Macy's and I was transfixed by the train
display. I could not, would not leave. I guess it took a couple of years
to buy me one. In subsequent years I went to all the department store
layouts.

I remember a Lionel 3 rail layout in one store, B. Altman's I think, before
they became an all-clothing retailer, that had two glass tunnels going under
a water filled stream. You could see the trains racing through under real
water, with goldfish. I don't remember which store had the Flyer layouts.
I'm hoping it was Macy's. I'd hate to think that I got started by a
fascination with 3-rail trains!

My father was the one who chose Flyer. His reason: real railroads run on 2
rails. Sometimes the old man did good.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17433 From: Thomas Stoltz Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Doug Peck
Train Gang,

When it comes to Doug Peck and S gauge, I don't think one can say enough good things. I don't care where he gets his parts, they are the best I've found. Not that I've been everywhere, I've been to a few parts dealers, tried Doug and had to go no further. He seems to be able to get any part I need.

So far, his parts always work (and I have seen some from other dealers that didn't) and he has no problem sharing his knowledge. Hey, he even has an 800 number.

It is not my intent to slight other dealers with whom I have not dealt, but rather to put in a good word for the place where I shop.

Happy rails to you,

Tom


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17434 From: Knight, Gene Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Reminiscing
You guys talking about the Gilbert Hall of Science etc started me
thinking again about my first AF train I got for Christmas. It was an
uncataloged set I think...with the 21084, New Haven flat car, Katy
painted box car, Gulf single dome tanker and the 937 caboose with the
conductor. Yes...I still have it and it runs great. Unfortunately, I
don't have the set box etc. I am just happy that I till have it. It
brings back many good memories. I am guessing my dad chose Flyer because
of price...but I am glad he did. Thanks Dad.

Gene
Group: S-Trains Message: 17435 From: samusvulgaris Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: bells and Whistles
Bells and Whistles

Is there anything on the market close to what I'm describing?

A stand-alone (not mounted within a loco or rolling stock) device
that sounds railroad whistles and bells. I'm thinking of a device
that would allow the activation of a button or switch that would
sound either. I would have the choice of steam whistle, diesel horn
and electric horn (switch selected or separate). For the bells, I
would have the capability to vary the frequency of the bell sound.
The amplitude of the sounds would approximate that of an AF steamer
choo-choo. The device could be powered from AC wall outlet or from
an AF transformer.

What's out there?

Sam
Group: S-Trains Message: 17436 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Promoting S-Gauge
Hi Everyone,
I received this e-mail from a gentleman from Louisville. Remember the story
I told about the guy with the American Flyer and he wouldn't let his son play
with it? And how I ran my 336 off the table while talking to him? Well, this
e-mail is from him. I just wanted to share it with everyone. I really made me
feel good about what I am doing with these trains shows and a 4X8 Layout. I
guess we can make a difference in our own small way. I think this e-mail is a
tribute to all of us that are promoting this hobby. I hope it makes you smile
too! Chris The TRAINNUT
PS Don, T. Hopefully he will be contacting you for this track soon.

Hello Chris and Beth,
This is Jerry, Bryce's dad. I am just now getting around to emailing
some folks that I met at the train show. We sure did enjoy meeting both of
you and hope you will come back to Louisville again. You can really be proud
of your layout, it looked great. I went to your web site and saw how you
have added to the layout over time. That is a lot of the fun of it, isn't
it? I specifically wanted to get the web address from you for the track you
were using with your layout. Bryce is already talking about an oval with one
switch to run the American Flyer train on. I've been told I have been too
stingy with that train set, so I am going to make sure that the old American
Flyer starts running again. Seriously, Bryce has so many different trains
that we haven't worked with that old set much. My old PikeMaster track that
came with it just will not stay connected, even after I made new pins for it.
But I have never seen a better smoker than that old locomotive, so we may
put it around the Christmas tree this year.
The train show has been such a positive boost to Bryce's social
development and the way he feels about himself. We have only recently been
able to get Bryce's medical problems diagnosed after a long journey. He has
several things going on that have impeded his social development that we have
only now discovered. He's a great kid who just needs a little extra help,
and we think the train show is just one of many ways to help him.
We hope you both have a great year and I may check in on your web site
from time to time to see what you are up to. We're grateful to have you for
new friends, and look forward to seeing you again in the future.

With High Regards,
Emily, Bryce, Kathy, and Jerry
Group: S-Trains Message: 17437 From: jfrr54 Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: bells and Whistles
--- In S-Trains@y..., "samusvulgaris" <samusvulgaris@y...> wrote:
> Bells and Whistles
>
The old American Flyer whistling billboard and diesel horn billboard
are still out there. One whistles and the other gives you diesel horn
sound. They're real attention grabbers.
John Rodgers



> Is there anything on the market close to what I'm describing?
>
> A stand-alone (not mounted within a loco or rolling stock) device
> that sounds railroad whistles and bells. I'm thinking of a device
> that would allow the activation of a button or switch that would
> sound either. I would have the choice of steam whistle, diesel horn
> and electric horn (switch selected or separate). For the bells, I
> would have the capability to vary the frequency of the bell sound.
> The amplitude of the sounds would approximate that of an AF steamer
> choo-choo. The device could be powered from AC wall outlet or from
> an AF transformer.
>
> What's out there?
>
> Sam
Group: S-Trains Message: 17438 From: crustyfour Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Bachmann ON30 conversion to S
I really like the old time style of these trains and it seems they can
fill a real void in the S world. They may be a little on the large
size, but so is the Franklin set, I like them anyway. I would be very
interested in hearing your experiences in converting these to standard
S.

I have been reading through the archives on this subject and found
some good information on freight car conversions and some mention of
the passenger cars. Many of these posts are over a year old and I
wounder if there is any new information, or newly completed
conversions. I saw no messages detailing the 2-6-0 loco conversion, I
would be especially interested in hearing the details of how to do
this. Would it be easier in the long run to use an AF chassis ? One
person told me that the original motor in thse is a bit underpowered.

Here is a link to Robert Conner's loco that I think looks wonderful:

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/robertc/On3.JPG

I would appreciate your thoughts, comments and "how to" advice.

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 17439 From: bob_massie Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: IC Smooth Sides
I remember that now that you mention it. I think I saw them in his
catalog from maybe 1993 or so--along with an IC FP-7. I may try to
find out if they're still around. Of course, now that the ICRR E-8
is out there, they may have already gotten snapped up!

Grins,
Bob M.

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Marty.Thorin" <Thorin.Marty@w...> wrote:
> Bob Massie wrote:
> <snip> I would love it if we could get the "proper" smooth
sided
> ICRR cars to match that beautiful E-8 in chocolate and orange.
<snip>
>
> Dear Bob:
> Don Heimburger got AM to paint up a number of Smooth Side IC
> Chocolate and Orange sets. Don purchased the entire run and then
sold them
> off. Although Don is not advertising them any more, he has a
tendency to
> have leftovers lurking in that warehouse of his.
> Give him a call (708) 366-1973. He is worth a try. (Don't
try
> reach Don other than by phone.)
>
> Thorin
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17440 From: Scott Holm Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Lionel's Gabe
I have both MTH's and Lionel's Gabe The Lamplighters. On the Lionel
version we are having a tough time getting Gabe to the top of the
ladder. He backslides frequently, especially if pushing the button
slowly and deliberately. The only way to get him up there is to hit the
button rapid fire upwards of 50 times. The kids like the challenge, but
their fingers get tired. Has anybody else had the same problem and is
there a cure?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Got something to say? Say it better with Yahoo! Video Mail
http://mail.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17441 From: yazfacts Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Bill board trouble......
Dear Group,
I'm having trouble with my R.B.B.B.Circus Whistling
Billboard.When I push the button to activate the whistle,it sounds
died.I have several billboards and they sound great.This one barely
whistles.I took the brush caps off and all that I can find is the
springs.Are there suppose to be brushes somewhere in there ?? If
anyone has any answers for me let me know.Thanks.....Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 17442 From: reefman@voicenet.com Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel's Gabe
Does it get worse when the lights are on??
I had a similar problem with the lower wattage transformers. I switched to a 100 watt and
haven't had the problem since.
Doug

> I have both MTH's and Lionel's Gabe The Lamplighters. On the Lionel
> version we are having a tough time getting Gabe to the top of the
> ladder. He backslides frequently, especially if pushing the button
> slowly and deliberately. The only way to get him up there is to hit the
> button rapid fire upwards of 50 times. The kids like the challenge, but
> their fingers get tired. Has anybody else had the same problem and is
> there a cure?
>
>



---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using Voicenet WebMail.
http://www.voicenet.com/webmail/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17443 From: gino restivo Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Bill board trouble......
yes their was two brushes in the motor it's
the same that go in the stm loco , you can
get them from you parts dealer ,if not i
have plenty brush's / spring ...
take off the black/brown brackett and ck
for damage to the armature ,probably
will need to be cleaned / polised up some
if it was running on wire ends ........
have fun , gino

-----Original Message-----
From: yazfacts <YAZFACTS@...>
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, February 15, 2002 4:09 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Bill board trouble......


>Dear Group,
> I'm having trouble with my R.B.B.B.Circus Whistling
>Billboard.When I push the button to activate the whistle,it sounds
>died.I have several billboards and they sound great.This one barely
>whistles.I took the brush caps off and all that I can find is the
>springs.Are there suppose to be brushes somewhere in there ?? If
>anyone has any answers for me let me know.Thanks.....Bob
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

----------------------------------------------------
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Only $9.95 per month!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17444 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Crazy E-Bay stuff
I wrote her a little note. She thanked me.
Chris Zizzo


----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...>
To: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>

> She may indeed be on this list because it's now down to $10 with no
> buy-it-now.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17445 From: gino restivo Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: [ bells and Whistles
many years ago at pro custom hobbies they
had a " PFM " pacific fast mail , sound system
that is as you describe everything in one box , not
sure of selection control ,
you might want to ck at walthers.com and see
what is available , QSi has indivdual sound
sytems called " MAX TRAXX "

surely their are others , gino

-----Original Message-----
From: jfrr54 <jfrodgers@...>
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, February 15, 2002 2:29 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: bells and Whistles


>--- In S-Trains@y..., "samusvulgaris" <samusvulgaris@y...> wrote:
>> Bells and Whistles
>>
>The old American Flyer whistling billboard and diesel horn billboard
>are still out there. One whistles and the other gives you diesel horn
>sound. They're real attention grabbers.
>John Rodgers
>
>
>
>> Is there anything on the market close to what I'm describing?
>>
>> A stand-alone (not mounted within a loco or rolling stock) device
>> that sounds railroad whistles and bells. I'm thinking of a device
>> that would allow the activation of a button or switch that would
>> sound either. I would have the choice of steam whistle, diesel horn
>> and electric horn (switch selected or separate). For the bells, I
>> would have the capability to vary the frequency of the bell sound.
>> The amplitude of the sounds would approximate that of an AF steamer
>> choo-choo. The device could be powered from AC wall outlet or from
>> an AF transformer.
>>
>> What's out there?
>>
>> Sam
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

----------------------------------------------------
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Only $9.95 per month!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17446 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Lionel/MTH Gabe's
In a message dated 2/15/02 2:49:36 PM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...>
> Subject: Lionel's Gabe
>
> I have both MTH's and Lionel's Gabe The Lamplighters. On the Lionel
> version we are having a tough time getting Gabe to the top of the
> ladder. He backslides frequently, especially if pushing the button
> slowly and deliberately. The only way to get him up there is to hit the
> button rapid fire upwards of 50 times. The kids like the challenge, but
> their fingers get tired. Has anybody else had the same problem and is
> there a cure?
>

Scott, we have had the same problem here and for that reason I personally
have chosen and am happily operating the MTH version. It is almost an exact
copy of the AC Gilbert one with 3 button controller.

Steve Blackburn...Boise, Idaho


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17447 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel's Gabe
When I tried out my Gabe at mid voltage on a Flyer transformer, maybe
12v, it didn't operate. Gabe wouldn't quite make it up a single ladder
rung. I then tried full voltage and he scooted up with no problems. I
now run mine on a 100W transformer that is dedicated to my switch
machines and has no significant load on it when I am not throwing
switches.

reefman@... wrote:
>
> Does it get worse when the lights are on??
> I had a similar problem with the lower wattage transformers. I switched to a 100 watt and
> haven't had the problem since.
> Doug
>
> > I have both MTH's and Lionel's Gabe The Lamplighters. On the Lionel
> > version we are having a tough time getting Gabe to the top of the
> > ladder. He backslides frequently, especially if pushing the button
> > slowly and deliberately. The only way to get him up there is to hit the
> > button rapid fire upwards of 50 times. The kids like the challenge, but
> > their fingers get tired. Has anybody else had the same problem and is
> > there a cure?
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> This message was sent using Voicenet WebMail.
> http://www.voicenet.com/webmail/
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17448 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Young Flyer fans
Along the lines of that letter about sparking interest in trains at a show.
My wife is an LPN at a nursing home. She works with a single mom who's son
(12) has more medical problems then we can think of. They have visited our
house and he talks about the trains for days. My wife asked if we could put
together a starter set for him to play with. I got a 282, IC reefer, Gulf
tank, Frisco gondola and caboose, track and trans, manual uncoupler and a
pair of switches. We brought it over last night set it up and he played till
almost midnight. Isn't this how we all started? Ed
Group: S-Trains Message: 17449 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Model Train Parts Reproductions Accessories Sets Tracks Cars
Yes Mike, "Triple S" is the best in the East when it comes to Flyer orig. &
Repro parts. Tom Seccia knows more about Flyer Parts than anyone in the
world. I have delt with Tom for 20 years and he has always treated me fairly.
Harwood


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17450 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, February 17, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains
Group: S-Trains Message: 17451 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Bachmann ON30 conversion to S
We have developed a new chassis for the 4 wheel street car. It has a
flywheel and much larger motor than the orginal. I didn't get it up on the
web yet but there are a few out there and the folks love the way they climb
hills and function on 6.5 " radius curves.
I would suspect the locomotive would be easier if a whole new chassis were
provided.

WHO"S INTERESTED?
Tom D.
----- Original Message -----
From: "crustyfour" <splitdorf@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 2:38 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Bachmann ON30 conversion to S


> I really like the old time style of these trains and it seems they can
> fill a real void in the S world. They may be a little on the large
> size, but so is the Franklin set, I like them anyway. I would be very
> interested in hearing your experiences in converting these to standard
> S.
>
> I have been reading through the archives on this subject and found
> some good information on freight car conversions and some mention of
> the passenger cars. Many of these posts are over a year old and I
> wounder if there is any new information, or newly completed
> conversions. I saw no messages detailing the 2-6-0 loco conversion, I
> would be especially interested in hearing the details of how to do
> this. Would it be easier in the long run to use an AF chassis ? One
> person told me that the original motor in thse is a bit underpowered.
>
> Here is a link to Robert Conner's loco that I think looks wonderful:
>
> http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/robertc/On3.JPG
>
> I would appreciate your thoughts, comments and "how to" advice.
>
> Steve Blancard
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17452 From: Mike Vana Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Gilbert Hall of Science Colors
I have been asked what colors were used at the
Gilbert Hall of Science, like the walls and other
details. Does anybody remember?

How many of you on this list have been there? I have
met a only couple people who have. And when was it
in operation? By the time I would have been old
enough to see it, it was probably closed. I was
born in 1956, and am probably one of the younger
people on the list.

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17453 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Re: Bill board trouble......
I think brushes are always a part of the motor assembly.

yazfacts wrote:

> Dear Group,
> I'm having trouble with my R.B.B.B.Circus Whistling
> Billboard.When I push the button to activate the whistle,it sounds
> died.I have several billboards and they sound great.This one barely
> whistles.I took the brush caps off and all that I can find is the
> springs.Are there suppose to be brushes somewhere in there ?? If
> anyone has any answers for me let me know.Thanks.....Bob
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17454 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: TrainMaster Comand Control in AF Steam Locos
For those who like to tinker, I have posted some new pages on My web site
showing my conversion of an AF Hudson to Lionel Trainmaster Comand Control.
It's really fun stuff to play with.

http://www.tuveson.com/LCRU/af_tender_lcru.htm


Carl
Group: S-Trains Message: 17455 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: WP,CZ observation car
Greetings to all! The search is back on for the L/AF, #6-48931 WP, CZ
observation car. If anyone should happen across one, please send me a name,
address, phone number or E-mail address. My thanks and best wishes,
Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 17456 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: Pre Ebay offer
Hi, Everybody.

I am putting 7 pieces of Flyer (A.C.G & LTI) on Ebay Saturday, app. 7 PM
Mountain time.

If anyone is interested in any of them, I'll give you first shot before I
list them.

They are:

1. S.P. Daylight B-unit # 8151 New in box. This is the one with horn from
1982.
2. S.P. Daylight Coach # 9501 new in box. (1981)
3. S.P. Daylight Observation car # 9503 new in box. (1981)
4. # 2300 Oil Drum Loader new in box.
5. U.P. # 24216 Hopper Excellent + (58-60)
6. Canadian National Reefer # 24419 in VG/VG+ (58-59)
7. L & N 24066 Boxcar Excellent + (60) This car came in only one set (Arrow)

and was sold mostly west of the Rockies.

Any Interest, e-mail me or phone 208-376-1159 I can send you photos via
e-mail.

Steve Blackburn....Boise, Idaho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17457 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Hey guys,
I just got another e-mail from someone at the train show in Indy. Just
wanted to pass this on because it has a link to the GATS webpage and a pic of
our portable layout. Get a load of the discription though. John is also one
of our list members. He just doesn't say a lot. Hi John.

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17458 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/15/2002
Subject: PREVIOUS POST
Uh Duh, I forgot to give you the link/URL here it
is.http://www.gats.com/shows/Indiana-Indianapolis-
19020604733c6845afde4d7.jpg This guy can be a real moro..... never mind.


There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17460 From: bilfrazier@aol.com Date: 2/16/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1331
In a message dated 2/16/02 5:34:11 AM Eastern Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 20:01:20 -0600
> From: Mike Vana <amflyer@...>
> Subject: Gilbert Hall of Science Colors
>
> I have been asked what colors were used at the
> Gilbert Hall of Science, like the walls and other
> details. Does anybody remember?
>
> How many of you on this list have been there? I have
> met a only couple people who have. And when was it
> in operation? By the time I would have been old
> enough to see it, it was probably closed. I was
> born in 1956, and am probably one of the younger
> people on the list.
>
> Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
>
>
>

My family visited New York City in, I believe, 1959. Each family member got
to choose what they wanted to see. My father wanted to see the Empire State
Building. My mother, the Guggenheim (sp?) Museum. My sister, the Statue of
Liberty. Guess what I wanted to see? I have no idea what color the walls of
the Hall of Science were as I was too interested in watching the trains!
BTW I also wanted to eat at the Automat.

Bill Frazier
MA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17461 From: erierailroad@aol.com Date: 2/16/2002
Subject: TrainMaster Comand Control in AF Steam Locos
Hi Carl,

I always wondered if it would be possible to put Lionels TCC in AF, and now
you answered my question. The reason I would have chose TCC, is because I
thought of keeping the AC motors. But my question to you is, if you are going
to convert the engines over to DC can motors, why stick with TCC and not use
DCC? DCC seems more of a modern system since hand held controllers are
available with infra red instead of Lionels antenna.

Thanks,
Jack



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17462 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 2/16/2002
Subject: Re: TrainMaster Comand Control in AF Steam Locos
For some reason that link may not connect correctly all the time.
Here is another:

http://67.97.33.131/af/LCRU/af_tender_lcru.htm

-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Tuveson [mailto:carl@...]
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 9:59 PM
To: S-Trains (E-mail)
Subject: [S-Trains] TrainMaster Comand Control in AF Steam Locos


For those who like to tinker, I have posted some new pages on My web site
showing my conversion of an AF Hudson to Lionel Trainmaster Comand Control.
It's really fun stuff to play with.

http://www.tuveson.com/LCRU/af_tender_lcru.htm


Carl



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All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17463 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/16/2002
Subject: Re: Indy Show pic
If enough people E-mail, It will get there attention I think.Chris

The Trainnut wrote:

>Just wanted to pass this on because it has a link to the GATS
>webpage and a pic of our portable layout. Get a load of the
>discription though.


MAN, that's frustrating! You go to all that trouble to display S, and
the GATS folks get it wrong! S'pose it would help to email their
webmaster with the facts?


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17464 From: Gale Hall Date: 2/16/2002
Subject: trades
Good Morning,

Anyone out on the list that might be interested in swapping some cars ?

Up for trade are the following:

1) LNE 632 beautiful excellent ++, no box, gray slick plastic, brass weights on link couplers, no rust, clean as a whistle

for


two not so perfect AF twin hopper shells, no trucks, broken steps ok....would prefer the corners are there.


1) UP 24216 triple hopper, no box, excellent ++ no rust, very very low ton miles.


for


three not so perfect AF twin hopper shells, no trucks needed, broken steps ok, still holding out for all the corners to be in place



1) Far from perfect, like there aren't enough 931 T&P gondola shells, this one has two step missing and the trucks removed, But as a novelty, this 931 is painted over a 941 Frisco gondola. Anyone following oddities enough to venture a gondola shell of some sort in trade?

1) Rock Island flatcar/wheel float, no box, four stakes, four wheel sets, excellent ++ nuttin wrong with it.

for
4 not so perfect twin hopper shells, no trucks, needs to have the corners there, steps not a problem.
I'll pay my shipping and you pay yours.
Please contact off list. Many thanks...
gale hall
frisco91@...




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17465 From: Gale Hall Date: 2/16/2002
Subject: trade status
Afternoon all,

UP and RI cars are gone at this time
Thanks

gale hall


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17466 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 2/16/2002
Subject: Re: Question about TrainMaster Command Control
Lance,

There are two radio components to the TMCC system. The hand held transmitter
operates at 27 Mhz sending the information from the buttons and throttle
etc. to the Command Base receiver. Base receiver relays that information
Via 455Kc signal sent on a wire that is connected to the common side of the
track power. This means that one side of the track is the 455Kc transmitting
antenna system sending it's signal to the LCRU's antenna in the engine.
Since Lionel uses 3 rails turning an engine around on the track has no
effect on the track's antenna system. The wheels are always the on the
common outside rail.

With a two rail system when you turn an engine on the track it effectively
shorts out the RF signal to the LCRU in the engine. This is why you put the
RF choke in the common lead. The RF choke looks like an open circuit to the
RF and it is not shorted out. Leaving it out, the engine will run fine one
direction but lousy if turned around.


Carl


-----Original Message-----
From: Lance McCold [mailto:lancemccold@...]
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 8:48 PM
To: Carl Tuveson
Subject: Question about TrainMaster Comand Control


Carl,

You are an inspiration. I have a question about the TrainMaster Comand
Control. You show an antenna so I assume that this system is radio control.
If that is so, what is the issue about turning around on the track? Does
the TrainMaster Comand Control use the track as the transmitting antenna?
Am I completely confused?

Thanks,

Lance McCold


Message: 10
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 21:58:52 -0500
From: Carl Tuveson <carl@...>
Subject: TrainMaster Comand Control in AF Steam Locos
For those who like to tinker, I have posted some new pages on My web site
showing my conversion of an AF Hudson to Lionel Trainmaster Comand Control.
It's really fun stuff to play with.
http://www.tuveson.com/LCRU/af_tender_lcru.htm

Carl
Group: S-Trains Message: 17467 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/16/2002
Subject: eBay item 1073478126 (Ends Feb-18-02 171145 PST ) - Missiouri Pacif
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1073478126&tc=photo

Something that may be of train interest to someone on this list.

Milk bottles is something else I collect and I already have this item, along with a PRR paper cone half pint. These were served on the train to passengers.

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17468 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/16/2002
Subject: PRE EBAY update.
Thanks for all the inquiries. I have sold or listed all but two items. I had
several inquiries for the SOPAC Daylight B-unit and Coach. The first person
in line was too thrifty to buy them. I am holding them over until tomorrow
night to list on ebay to allow those of you interested to get back to me.

Thanks to all.....Steve

ANOTHER NOTE...Vol. IV of the S-Gauge video series will be ready for shipping
on March 8th.....Same price as the others....$13
Group: S-Trains Message: 17469 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 2/16/2002
Subject: Russell MOBI-MODELS S-31 Rolling lift bridge
Greetings:
I am looking for a Russell Mobi-Models Rolling Lift bridge. I found
an advertisement for this bridge in the "S Gauge Building & Repair Manual"
printed by Don Heimburger in about 1973.

I have no idea if this kit was actually created but if it was, purchase of
one would solve many of my construction headaches.

(Ignore this part if you want to.)
I plan to build a seashore module with a double-track, through truss,
Scherzer Rolling Lift bridge. Many of the specialty parts I would need to
build are within this kit so it would be a real timesaver for me. The
bridge will be permanently down so I don't need to worry about motorizing it
or even if it opens. The rails (and overhead catenary) will be continuous
through the bridge.
If you have driven across the lift bridge in downtown Sturgeon Bay,
Wisconsin, then you have driven across a DOUBLE, through truss, Scherzer
Rolling Lift Bridge. (Someone is going to take me to task for saying
"Scherzer Rolling Lift". A Scherzer bridge is one type of rolling lift
bridge. Ignore my redundancy.) I will build everything from scratch if I
have to.
(You may quit ignoring.)

The listed price (1973) for the S-31 is $18.95 sans motor or track. (The
S-61 Scissor bridge ($22.95 1973 list) would be a good help too as it is a
through truss bridge and the S-31 is not.)

If you have any knowledge of Russell Mobi-Bridges bridge, please tell me.
If you have any these that you can part with, please let me know.

Thanks!
Thorin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17470 From: Robert Wight Date: 2/17/2002
Subject: Coal Messes
That new coal loader from Lionel is a real hoot. Only problem is, we sure
make a heck of a mess on the layout. I found if I just put a sock on the end
of my shop vac hose,it cleans it right up and it deposits it neatly in the
sock. Only takes secounds. Then back to loading and unloading. Its up to how
your particular layout is but I thought this fast and easy way to clean-up
the coal could be usefull to someone.
Bob Wight

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Group: S-Trains Message: 17471 From: plotnick Date: 2/17/2002
Subject: Brush holders
There is a wide variety of AF brush holders. Has anyone ever listed the
various types and their identifying marks, so I can sort out what I have in my
junk box? -Roy Plotnick

Roy E. Plotnick
Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences
University of Illinois at Chicago
845 W. Taylor St.
Chicago, Il .60607
phone: 312-996-2111 630-252-6377(May-August)
e-mail: plotnick@...
homepage: http://www.uic.edu/depts/geos/people/faculty/plotnick.html

"Those who do not know the literature are condemned to repeat it."
Group: S-Trains Message: 17472 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/17/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, February 17, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains
Group: S-Trains Message: 17473 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 2/17/2002
Subject: Re: S-Trains list NOT a pain if you....
Well unfortunately this is changing! The All Aboard Sets Club was
migrated this week to Yahoo Groups, and every email post has huge
graphical ad at the bottom. In time this will happen to all Yahoo
groups! It is not a popup, but it is very objectionable and unpleasant
to many...

Dennis Back wrote:

>Here is my two cents. I have a Yahoo email account.
>I read all individual email posts from S-trains (and
>other mail) and my mail is sent to my Yahoo email
>address.
>
>I do NOT get ANY pop-ups at all!!! There IS a 1" x 6"
>ad at the top of each email message. I have NEVER
>gotten any pop-ups reading any of the email via Yahoo
>email.
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17474 From: mfjdunn@bellsouth.net Date: 2/17/2002
Subject: AF roadbed
Does anyone out there have any AF #726 GRAY straight rubber roadbed with the wide ties? I need 4 pieces to complete an addition to my layout. If anyone has some to spare please contact me off list at mfjdunn@... OR afchoochoo@.... Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Jim Dunn















af
Group: S-Trains Message: 17475 From: bassflyer Date: 2/17/2002
Subject: To all Chatters....
At 6:25 Calif. time,...I reclicked on chat and the room is working
now,...ifn' anyone wants to chat still!!

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17476 From: bassflyer Date: 2/17/2002
Subject: To all Chatters....
At 6:25 Calif. time,...I reclicked on chat and the room is working
now,...ifn' anyone wants to chat still!!

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17477 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/17/2002
Subject: Lost Club
Does anyone know of the Atlanta Area S-Gaugers Club or anyone associated with
it? Thanks for the help. The MVSG is trying to send them material but it was
returned to the club as undeliverable. Thanks Chris
Group: S-Trains Message: 17478 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/17/2002
Subject: Chat last night
Hi Guys,
Sorry I missed the chat last night Had to go out for Karaoke last night.
A little Stress Management other than trains. Did I miss anything good or
anyone talking bad about me?

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17479 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 2/17/2002
Subject: AF 4-6-6-4 Challenger project
Hi all, first I would like to say thanks to all the people that
offered advice about joining pot metal shells together a few weeks
ago. Those pics of the articulateds a week or so ago got me fired up
to start the construction of one of my own and I would like to share
some pic with the group of my latest project.
Take a look in the files section under the title "AF 4-6-6-4
Challenger project", I'll attempt to document the construction of
this beast as best I can so that everyone can watch the progress and
maybe motivate some of you to start construction of one of your own
;-) If all goes as planned it will work on regular American Flyer
curved track but would look better on something with a larger radius
to it. If anyone in the group is interested in builing one of their
own, feel free to ask me question.
Now for a shameless request... I need a tender or two for a northern
one w/SIT unit and the other with a whistle to go behind this
behemoth and about 10 reefers. Anyone here got any leads???
Thanks,
Fred Ralwing
Group: S-Trains Message: 17480 From: The Reis's Date: 2/17/2002
Subject: Microsoft Train Simulator on sale (warning off topic)
Just a quick note that Microsoft Train Simulator software is on sale at BEST
BUY (from the Feb 17th paper insert) at $19.95 which is about half off.
Anyway you can check locally if the sale is in your area and you have
interest. I have been running trains on mine quickly and without a lot of
time searching the manual.

OK, back to your normal S Gauge programming.


Eric Reis
Greater Seattle S Gaugers
Kenmore, Washington


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17481 From: Clifford Manning Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: smoke
I am rebuilding my 312 and the smoke unit is the problem. First I can
not find any angel hair. Second, I tried using the previous horse hair
but burned the wire every time. I have wire and Tom's CD for repair.
Angel hair or replacement for it would help.

Any help would be appreciated.

Clifford Manning
Group: S-Trains Message: 17482 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: smoke
Cliford,
You can order the wick unit already wound with the wire from Portline
Hobbies For $2.50. They work reall well also.

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17483 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: "L" Parts
I realize this group is only interested in A.F. However, by accident I
have been given some "L" stuff and need some parts to place them back in
service. Any suggestions of where to locate a good supplier? Thanks!

Mike Leahy
Group: S-Trains Message: 17484 From: Frederick Raab Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Shelburne Museum AF layout
February 17, 2002

Can anyone recall an article in the "S Gaugian" that features the AF
layout that Gilbert built at the Shelburne (Vermont) Museum? It may have
been part of an article that included other such layouts. The Museum is
considering recreating the layout and needs information. Thanks.

I tried to send this last week, but never saw it on the list.

Frederick H. (Fritz) Raab
f.raab@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 17485 From: Horn, David Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Customized AF Steamers
Bob Davison's telephone number is 410-692-5479. BAAFC does not have a web
site. They have talked about it but nothing has come of it. [Bob is the
guy who has the 4-6-6-4 and streamlined N&W Northern I mentioned in an
earlier post.]

The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17486 From: Steve Blancard Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: AF 4-6-6-4 Challenger project
Fred,

That's really neat. I hope you are making good notes for a follow up "how to"
article ;-)

Of course I'm now curious how you are going to get it around AF radius track. My 336
can barely make it. Are you going to have the 2 chassis' on pivots?

Double choo - choos, that should sound great. Is there any way to make double smoke
units ???

I look forward to your updates.

Regards,
Steve Blancard

lbdrummer3 wrote:

> Hi all, first I would like to say thanks to all the people that
> offered advice about joining pot metal shells together a few weeks
> ago. Those pics of the articulateds a week or so ago got me fired up
> to start the construction of one of my own and I would like to share
> some pic with the group of my latest project.
> Take a look in the files section under the title "AF 4-6-6-4
> Challenger project", I'll attempt to document the construction of
> this beast as best I can so that everyone can watch the progress and
> maybe motivate some of you to start construction of one of your own
> ;-) If all goes as planned it will work on regular American Flyer
> curved track but would look better on something with a larger radius
> to it. If anyone in the group is interested in builing one of their
> own, feel free to ask me question.
> Now for a shameless request... I need a tender or two for a northern
> one w/SIT unit and the other with a whistle to go behind this
> behemoth and about 10 reefers. Anyone here got any leads???
> Thanks,
> Fred Ralwing
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17487 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: "L" Parts
Mike,

Try Frenchs at http://frenchstrains.com
or
http://www.wmtlionelparts.com/Lionel-PostWar.htm

Jim,
----- Original Message -----
From: "LEAHY RUTH A" <ruth.leahy@...>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 8:33 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] "L" Parts


> I realize this group is only interested in A.F. However, by accident I
> have been given some "L" stuff and need some parts to place them back in
> service. Any suggestions of where to locate a good supplier? Thanks!
>
> Mike Leahy
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17488 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: Ambassador Montezuma
Dear Doctor Weber

If the new Ambassator Montezuma is not a replacement
for Monty then Monty should still exist. People say
we don't have traditions at SDSU until they try and
change things. Do we have any proof that the real
Montezuma was an Ambassator?

This is all about Policial Correctness and feelings of
a few to the detrament of the majority. Why would a
University want to rewrite history, when it is should
be teaching it? This could not exist in the private
sector. That is how out of touch University
Administrators are and why they are not respected. I
am affraid that this issue will cost you your job.
That is very sad, but there is a lesson in how
significant Monty is. Like I wrote you in the past.
The Aztec Football program helped ignite the name
change from College to University. That is how
important the program was to those of us who were
lucky enought to have attended SDSC in the good old
days before PC. Sincerely; James Sleeth

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17489 From: lou342ac Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: bells and Whistles
Sam,
I recently purchased an inexpensive sound system made by MRC ('Sound
Station 312') that meets some of the requirements in your message. I
picked the unit up at a train show for under $50.

The unit comes with two speakers. One speaker has the power supply/pc
board mounted in it. The unit is powered by 110 vac (regular lamp
cord with a house current plug). Also, out of this same speaker is a
small cord connected to a hand held controller which looks similiar
to a remote tv controller. The controller has an on/off switch,
volume control and several push buttons that add up to 18 different
train sounds (horns, bells, whistles, brake release etc). Some of
the sounds can be mixed together (one sound on one speaker with a
different sound on the other speaker).

Its not the best system out there but its hard to find one that has
so many different quality sounds at this price.

Lou



--- In S-Trains@y..., "samusvulgaris" <samusvulgaris@y...> wrote:
> Bells and Whistles
>
> Is there anything on the market close to what I'm describing?
>
> A stand-alone (not mounted within a loco or rolling stock) device
> that sounds railroad whistles and bells. I'm thinking of a device
> that would allow the activation of a button or switch that would
> sound either. I would have the choice of steam whistle, diesel
horn
> and electric horn (switch selected or separate). For the bells, I
> would have the capability to vary the frequency of the bell sound.
> The amplitude of the sounds would approximate that of an AF steamer
> choo-choo. The device could be powered from AC wall outlet or from
> an AF transformer.
>
> What's out there?
>
> Sam
Group: S-Trains Message: 17490 From: David Dewey Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: smoke
Clifford,
It is much easier to just buy the replacement wicks with wire already
wound on them. Last I bought some they were $2.50. The usual sources!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17491 From: Fire Wood Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Flyer newbie
Hi all,
I'm an S scale newbie who just picked up a couple of
lengths of old AF tinplate track on impulse.( A big
start, I know) After scanning a couple of mags and the
web for American Flyer info, the collector bug seems
to have bitten.
My childhood experiences were with OO/HO British
Hornby, and also a O tinplate #40 clockwork passenger
set which lives under the Christmas tree every year.
No AF nostalgia there.....
I've dabbled in model railroads for years, but have
never found that certain something that brings hobby
satisfaction.(There's everything from N to O scale,
Brit and North American packed away here somewhere.)

I like the "toy" and collector aspects, but enjoy the
operation of something close to prototype. For
example, the 4-6-6-4 project really caught my eye.

The Flyer look seems to be the closest to that
philosophy; not to mention that AF appears to be a
collectible that isn't priced beyond reach. I'm just
looking for impressions of Flyer from all you
operators and collectors out there.
Why American Flyer?
Regards, Dave W.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17492 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer newbie
I loved Lionel but couldn't afford it as a kid. Had one tinplate set
with lots of extra track. Then tried HO 'cause I wanted to try "real
Model Railroading". I then started AF as a teen ager after frustration
with late wartime and postwar HO junk and the new 2 rail stuff came
out. Bought 2 312 sets at the first Christmas where they were
available. I could see the scale possibilities of Flyer way back then
and now have evolved to hirail with primarily AM and SHS equipment. I
still use a lot of Flyer accessories (+ an MTH animated platform and
radar tower). No regrets! It really is not only the perfect size but
hirail is perfect for a scale look without the fussy track tolerances.
I have no problem regarding AM code 148 track as "realistic".

Fire Wood wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> I'm an S scale newbie who just picked up a couple of
> lengths of old AF tinplate track on impulse.( A big
> start, I know) After scanning a couple of mags and the
> web for American Flyer info, the collector bug seems
> to have bitten.
> My childhood experiences were with OO/HO British
> Hornby, and also a O tinplate #40 clockwork passenger
> set which lives under the Christmas tree every year.
> No AF nostalgia there.....
> I've dabbled in model railroads for years, but have
> never found that certain something that brings hobby
> satisfaction.(There's everything from N to O scale,
> Brit and North American packed away here somewhere.)
>
> I like the "toy" and collector aspects, but enjoy the
> operation of something close to prototype. For
> example, the 4-6-6-4 project really caught my eye.
>
> The Flyer look seems to be the closest to that
> philosophy; not to mention that AF appears to be a
> collectible that isn't priced beyond reach. I'm just
> looking for impressions of Flyer from all you
> operators and collectors out there.
> Why American Flyer?
> Regards, Dave W.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
> http://sports.yahoo.com
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17493 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: AF 4-6-6-4 Challenger project
Fred,

Looked at your pictures. Pretty neat. I had contemplated starting just such a
project a few months ago, but already have too many other things on the to do list.
I had planned on making both chassis fully powered. I had only planned on using one
smoke and choo choo unit though. Two choo choo units might sound neat. I had
thought about combining two smoke units with a tube and y connector to the smoke
stack, but felt that there would already be too much current draw with two motors.
This may be a good place to insert two of Steve's can motor conversions though. I
almost choked when I found out how much an AF Northern type tender (if you can find
one) would cost. Here is an idea you may want for the tenders I got from Dave Dewey,
I think. Look for some old Marx tender shells and splice them. They are about the
right size, cheap, and since they are plastic, joining them shouldn't be too much of
an issue. Keep us all posted of your progress (so I can steal some ideas).

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO



lbdrummer3 wrote:

> Hi all, first I would like to say thanks to all the people that
> offered advice about joining pot metal shells together a few weeks
> ago. Those pics of the articulateds a week or so ago got me fired up
> to start the construction of one of my own and I would like to share
> some pic with the group of my latest project.
> Take a look in the files section under the title "AF 4-6-6-4
> Challenger project", I'll attempt to document the construction of
> this beast as best I can so that everyone can watch the progress and
> maybe motivate some of you to start construction of one of your own
> ;-) If all goes as planned it will work on regular American Flyer
> curved track but would look better on something with a larger radius
> to it. If anyone in the group is interested in builing one of their
> own, feel free to ask me question.
> Now for a shameless request... I need a tender or two for a northern
> one w/SIT unit and the other with a whistle to go behind this
> behemoth and about 10 reefers. Anyone here got any leads???
> Thanks,
> Fred Ralwing
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17494 From: David Dewey Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer newbie
Well, I don't think I had a choice about picking AF as that's what my
brothers had. My Dad was influenced to go AF by Mr. Wright, later my
brothers and my math & science teacher. His son Mike still runs AF and we
are still friends after all these years. Why AF? Because, at the time, it
was the only realistic toy train! So for the same reasons you are attracted
to it nowadays, we were back then. Yes, I did try some HO, but never
appreciated it's finicky track alignment requirements, nor its small size.
O is just too big, and if you want to do it in two-rail, too expensive!
I know the "rivet counters" will argue the foreshortening of many cars and
other pieces, as well as the oversized accessories; but I find the
combination fun, and that's what it's all about, FUN!
Welcome Aboard!
S'incerely,
David Dewey
Group: S-Trains Message: 17495 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Way off topic...B-17
Clear DayI know it isn't Flyer....I just had a little trip to Orlando ( Out of the country for a few days ) I went to an exibit that lets you go into a WW2 Briefing room...Then you go out to the strip...there is setting a B-17g in this large darkened room...as you climb up the rear door into the waist gun positions...the feeling gets very close and a little erie with the sounds....you the pass the bombs in the bay, radio operators position and arrive at the pilots station...I always pictured the 17 as a much larger a/c...Really a neat exibit...Got to watch a German Storch fly ....saw one of my favs....Spit..theres also A 24, 25, 26, 51,etc..Checked out several hobby shops...no toys...Bob




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17496 From: jahoozdumm Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: Indy Show pic
Just got an email from Frank Hicks of GATS. He has corrected the
caption under the photo of the S scale Christmas layout on the Indy
show photos page of the GATS website. Sheesh, that was quick! I
emailed them just last Saturday.)

Frank apologized, saying he is "an S scale fan, too, so I REALLY
should have known better." Sounds like a nice guy.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17497 From: rfgiardina Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: smoke
The original material used in the flyer smoke units, while it is a
form of fiber glass, it is not the same as "angel Hair". The actual
material is called "sliver". The strands are much thinner than angel
hair and is spun and then twisted.

RFG


--- In S-Trains@y..., Clifford Manning <clifma19@m...> wrote:
> I am rebuilding my 312 and the smoke unit is the problem. First I
can
> not find any angel hair. Second, I tried using the previous horse
hair
> but burned the wire every time. I have wire and Tom's CD for repair.
> Angel hair or replacement for it would help.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Clifford Manning
Group: S-Trains Message: 17498 From: DoUg Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: A. Flyer road bed
Someone was looking for a few pieces of grey flyer road bed earlier, did you
find it?? Email me off line if you didn't.
Doug
Group: S-Trains Message: 17499 From: Dennis Conway Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] This 'IS' S Scale
Chuck Porter wrote: >> WOW

Wow is right!! Great piece of modeling!!

Dennis Conway
Los Angeles
Group: S-Trains Message: 17500 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: AF 4-6-6-4 project Q&A
For Steve and Rogers questions...
Steve, the back half is going to have the boiler shell attached to it
and the front half will be on a pivot. If you look at the pic of
chassis #2, on the back end where the trailing truck would have
mounted you will see a heart shaped hole, that's where the pivot
screw goes through and attaches to the front tab of the steam
cylinders of chassis #1. I tested it out and everything articulates
freely. It just looks really strange with that big boiler hanging
over the side on those small radius curves.
I thought long and hard on doing a double smoke unit but there is
just not enough room in a Hudson boiler shell to do that, at least
not that I could see. Maybe a Northern shell would have enough space
though. The problem with that is you can't touch a Northern shell in
any condition for under $100 bucks it seems... Now if you could make
it all fit, you then have the problem of getting the smoke fluid to
the smoke units. That's what made me go with the SIT unit idea.

Roger, I really really wanted to have both chassis' powered but could
think of a way to do it. The clearance between the boiler and
chassis on the front section is slightly less than an inch. If
anyone else has any ideas, I would like to hear them. Because of the
distance to the first chassis' steam cylinders and the pivoting front
half, I couldn't put a motor on the 2nd chassis. Now here is an
idea, does anyone make a flat motor? It could be mounted backwards
on the 2nd chassis???

TTYL,
Fred
Group: S-Trains Message: 17501 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer newbie
I started out playing with my dads American Flyer set every
Christmas. I spent many hours watching that little Pacific chug
around the Christmas tree with a string of mixed freights.
The thing that appeals to me now is the size of S gauge trains, not
to small and not to big and they look more realistic in scale
compaired to Lionel's period offerings. I also like the "toy" look
of American Flyer's trains from the cast in details to the white
walled tires.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17502 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: B-17 Way off S-track
Clear DayI know it isn't Flyer....I just had a little trip to Orlando ( Out
of
the country for a few days ) I went to an exibit that lets you go into a WW2
Briefing room...Then you go out to the strip...there is setting a B-17g in
this
large darkened room...as you climb up the rear door into the waist gun
positions...


Hey Portland, Oregon---

Is there still the B-17 gas station out there near the suburb of Milwaukie on
99? In 1980, I saw a B-17 being used as a gas station customer bldg--very
unique and gave me reason to stop my car on the street there and take a
picture I still have. This is for any of you S train B-17 nuts. The B-17
might be the S gauge airplane compared to the O gauge B-29? Like the
Frontiersman AF Engine, the B-17 tail was slightly out of gauge (oversized)?

John R
Group: S-Trains Message: 17503 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Chat, Ooooh, what you missed!
Chris (The Train Nut) wants to know about chat:
>Did I miss anything good or
>anyone talking bad about me?

Would we tell you?

Chat set a record. Final goodbyes were at 12:12 AM EST.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17504 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Northern Tenders
Fred Ralwing asks:
> I need a tender or two for a northern
> one w/SIT unit and the other with a whistle to go behind this
> behemoth

This is the single most difficult piece to find. Flyer tenders are harder
to find than Lionel or Marx, because of the solid connection to their
engines. When you find them together, if the engine is bashed up, the
tender usually is too. Prices are ridiculous, the engine is way too
collectible, even in junkbox shape.

I have been looking for 2 of them, with the intent to kitbash both bodies
into one, paint it yellow and make it into a second tender for my 332, with
a link on one end and a knuckle for the Budds on the other. Fugeddaboudit.

The only lead I have, on just the body, no chassis, came from Mel Nielsen of
Ballston Locomotive who says that Tom Hodgson actually cast replacement
tender bodies in plastic. Good luck getting hold of him, though.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17505 From: David Dewey Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Ebay bidding--Is this the record for manual final bid?
Hi all,
I happened to be online when a semaphore was nearly up, so bid on it. I
was immediately outbid, and so just tried "one more time" and won. Checked
the bidding history; my second bid came in at 3 seconds to go, and 23 ¢
higher than the other guy!!! (Notice how us CHEAP! guys know how to make a ¢
sign on the computer.)

We don' need no stinkin' Sniping Software here!

Hope it turns out to be as nice as the picture. . . .
Hope I can sneak it in the house before Linda sees it. . . .
(Fortunately I did still get it pretty cheap).
BTW, this is for my planned layout, I want one section of mailine with CTC,
or at least a facsimile of it. I think I now have enough signals to do that.
Now for the house so I can have a layout! (THAT I won't have to sneak by
Linda--she's getting tired of all the boxes around this one!)
Gotta go work on some trains. . .
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17506 From: David Dewey Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Repro 4-wheel trailing trucks
Hi All,
Maybe I've asked this before, but since I've forgotten, I will ask
anyway!
What is the opinion of the reproduction Hudson/Northern trailing trucks?
Are they substantial enough for regular use? Or do they need to have some
bushings put in them to provide a solid bearing surface?
Thanks!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17507 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Northern Tenders
Hi just a thought,
since you are kit bashing anyway Would an old
plastic or metal passenger car work as the main framework for an oil type
tender for the Northern? Maybe a combo car that has flat type sides ? Or
plastic that could with heat be rounded. Just thought the more creative
types might be able to work this out. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17508 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Thanks
Greetings! My thanks to all who offered help in my search for a WP, CZ
observation car...especially Anormal1 for working some magic to make an
acquisition possible. What a great group! Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 17509 From: David Dewey Date: 2/18/2002
Subject: Re: Northern Tenders
Or maybe a couple of Marx tenders spliced together?
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17510 From: ctbigboy Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: American "S" Gauge Nor-Cal Track Display
Hi everyone. This past weekend in Santa Clara, California, at the
Nor-Cal meet, we set up a 12'x 18'operating layout using 60" flex,
sectional 10" straight, 27" radius curve track, and prototype 27"
remote control switches. Here are some pictures to view.

http://www.classictrains.com/NorCal_01.jpg
http://www.classictrains.com/NorCal_03.jpg
http://www.classictrains.com/NorCal_11.jpg
http://www.classictrains.com/NorCal_12.jpg
http://www.classictrains.com/NorCal_13.jpg
http://www.classictrains.com/NorCal_14.jpg
http://www.classictrains.com/NorCal_15.jpg

Nick Mescher
Classic Trains
American "S" Gauge™
Email: nmescher@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 17511 From: Scott Holm Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: B-17 not so off S-track
American Models sells B-17's at their website:

http://www.americanmodels.com/misc/tanks.html

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17512 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Scherzer Rolling Bridge
Someone was asking for info on a Scherzer rolling bridge. I was unable to
find anything on the Internet about the Russell Mobi-Models kit. That is
pretty unusual, to come up dry on Google. Perhaps you have the name wrong?

I did find a great deal about Scherzer Rolling Bridges. They do have their
fans, including entire websites devoted to pictures, histories and such.
One fellow wrote back to tell me he bought a kit on E-Bay. There are a
number of AHM N-scale and HO-scale kits. If you do scratchbuild, you might
consider buying and assembling one for a working model.

The fellow who wrote, Ragnar Torfason, said: "There was a great article on
scratch building one in the November 1967 issue of Model Railroader magazine
(which I own). I am thinking of putting the whole article on my web site, I
may do that soon. I could send you a copy if you'd like." His e-mail
address is : tempus@... . Write him and tell him that the inquiry
was for you and you would like a copy of the article. The guy seems like a
real sweetheart.

Do a search on Google (www.google.com) to find Scherzer Rolling Bridge.
That ought to get you to most of them. Dropping the "Scherzer" will open
more results but adds a lot of non-responsive searches (like "ROLLING
Stones, BRIDGE over Bremen"). On e-Bay, only use "Rolling Bridge" to get to
the HO and N scale auctions.

Good Luck,
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17513 From: David Dewey Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: L cat revisions
Hi all,
This was just posted to the TCA list, two items that will be of interest
to us--lower price on the water tower and the RI loco will be a GP-7.
S'
David D.

Subject: Lionel Catalog Corrections

Lionel has announced some revisions to their catalog.

Stu

12888 Railroad Crossing Flasher, the correct RETAIL price is 39.95 not
$59.95 as stated in the catalog.

31701 Boy's Train Set, the correct RETAIL price is $449.95 not $499.95 as
stated in the catalog.

49809 American Flyer Water Tower, the correct RETAIL price is $89.95 not
$149.95 as stated in the catalog.

Pages 6-7: All Adventure Sets track layout dimensions are 27"x63". The
Circus Train will come with an operating track section for use with the
elephant car.

Page 16: 50th Anniversary Set. Minimum radius should be O-54. Trucks will be
black.

Page 23: Southern Berkshire Locomotive. Color will be prototypical Southern
green.

Page 37: Track Cleaner Car. This is a non-powered car.

Page 42: Delaware & Hudson U30C (6-28200). This item is a Lionel Service
Station Exclusive.

Page 45: SD-40-2 Locomotives. Minimum radius is O-31 and loco length is 17
1/4".

Page 53: Stock Cars. Minimum radius is O-31, length is 10".

Pages 56-57: Milk Cars. Minimum radius is O-31, approx. length is 10".

Page 60: Erie Lackawanna Box Car. This item will be produced with plastic
trucks.

Page 61: Southern Caboose. Roof will be black.

Page 64-65: All rolling stock minimum radius is O-27.

Page 70: Searchlight Car (6-26768) will be produced as #3520. Catalog is
incorrect.

Page 71: Bosco Milk Car. Remote operating track required (not included with
item).

Page 74: Rock Island locomotive will be produced as a GP-7. Correct retail
price for #722 Water Tower is $89.95.

Page 79: Lion Oil Derrick. Correct retail price is $79.95.

Page93: Norfolk Southern Die-cast Girder Bridge, correct item number is
6-14176.
Page 93: Mainline Classic Lamps (6-22950) have been cancelled


Stuart Rankin
Group: S-Trains Message: 17514 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Clover House NYC Dry Transfers
Attention all NYC nuts:
I just saw this on e-bay. Unusual to see there, I think.

Clover House "S" Scale Dry Transfers - NYC

Intended for S Scale boxcars.
I don't post to S-Scale, so pass it along.

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1707025833


Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17515 From: ron inscho Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: Northern Tenders
At one time Tom Hodgson was also making a northern boiler. & Also a Dave
Fletcher/Colonial castings Co. that was making a replacement tender chassis
& had plans to make an engine chassis. I placed an order for these back in
92 or 93 & never heard any more from him . Any info on this guy ? he was
some where in Mass. Anyone know how to find out what Hodgson has for sale &
how to buy it ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
To: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 10:31 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Northern Tenders


> Fred Ralwing asks:
> > I need a tender or two for a northern
> > one w/SIT unit and the other with a whistle to go behind this
> > behemoth
>
> This is the single most difficult piece to find. Flyer tenders are
harder
> to find than Lionel or Marx, because of the solid connection to their
> engines. When you find them together, if the engine is bashed up, the
> tender usually is too. Prices are ridiculous, the engine is way too
> collectible, even in junkbox shape.
>
> I have been looking for 2 of them, with the intent to kitbash both bodies
> into one, paint it yellow and make it into a second tender for my 332,
with
> a link on one end and a knuckle for the Budds on the other.
Fugeddaboudit.
>
> The only lead I have, on just the body, no chassis, came from Mel Nielsen
of
> Ballston Locomotive who says that Tom Hodgson actually cast replacement
> tender bodies in plastic. Good luck getting hold of him, though.
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17516 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Northern tenders
I tried to call David Fletcher (Colonial Castings) yesterday for you tender
hunting guys. No answer. Haven't talked to him in years. He used to make
Northern tender bodies and floors. I never saw a body, only used several
floors to repair 334's. 508 374-8783 after 7 PM eastern time is the info
I have. I don't know if it is still current.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17517 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Clover House
I have used Clover House dry transfers to letter locos and passenger cars.
Their quality is excellent. They also make wooden, metal, and plastic
detail parts. They lean toward the old timey but have many things that are
useful in the transition era too.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17518 From: srgriggs Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: L cat revisions
--- In S-Trains@y..., "David Dewey" <djdewey@c...> wrote:
> Hi all,
> This was just posted to the TCA list, two items that will be of
interest
> to us--lower price on the water tower and the RI loco will be a
GP-7.
> S'
> David D.
>
> Subject: Lionel Catalog Corrections
>
> Lionel has announced some revisions to their catalog.
>

> Page 74: Rock Island locomotive will be produced as a GP-7.

Lionel has always used the dynamic brake blister to distinguish
between GP7's and GP9's. Although it probably wouldn't bother the
majority of Flyer collectors/operators, the Rock Island never owned
diesels with dynamic brakes so the switch to a GP7 model w/o the
blister is a good move.

Scott
Group: S-Trains Message: 17519 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: AF Northern tender available NEW
To all:

Tom Hodges (American High Rail) sells copies of the shell and frame for the
AF Northern tender. They are cast in epoxy.

At the last S-Fest I purchased two shells ($30.00 each) and two frames
($20.00 each). I went to another table and purchased two correct
Gen-u-whine AF trucks ($5.00 each) and two sets of Gen-U-whine AF Northern
tender handrails ($5.00 each).
I will cut off the coal bunkers on both shells (and that portion of
the frame) and discard! The remaining water tank portions will be joined.
A lead weight will be added to bring the weight up to a normal AF Northern
tender. After paint, I will have a water tender to put behind my 336 for
$120.00 and a little work.

This is my solution to the shortage of cheap AF Northern tenders. I use
Tom's epoxy copies instead!

Thorin Marty
Milwaukee, WI

P.S. Raisin River had some BEAUTIFUL UP water tenders at the S-Fest.
Painted brass in both scale and highrail. I couldn't justify putting this
work of art ($350.00) behind a "Very Good" AF Northern. Also scale couplers
only.

P.P.S. Tom has had the shells for at least four years. In all of that time
I have been after Tom to make a water tender. He isn't interested and will
not do it unless he has orders for at least 20. The price would be about
$60.00: shell and frame. Any one interested in taking the ball for this
one?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17520 From: p_rsl Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: B-17 not so off S-track
--- In S-Trains@y..., Scott Holm <imsscott@y...> wrote:
> American Models sells B-17's at their website:
>
> http://www.americanmodels.com/misc/tanks.html
>

Both the B-17 and the tanks are, I believe, reissues of the old
Lindberg kits. There are several older airplane kits out there that
are close to S scale, leaving aside the wide variety of 1/72nd scale
kits.

Harry Butler
Group: S-Trains Message: 17521 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Poll results for S-Trains
The following S-Trains poll is now closed. Here are the
final results:


POLL QUESTION: This poll had only one Question. It is
an attempt to measure the age of our
group.

CHOICES AND RESULTS
- Less Than 20 Years old, 0 votes, 0.00%
- 20-29 Years old, 2 votes, 1.89%
- 30-39 Years old, 7 votes, 6.60%
- 40-49 Years old, 26 votes, 24.53%
- 50-59 Years old, 47 votes, 44.34%
- 60-69 Years old, 23 votes, 21.70%
- 70-79 Years old, 1 votes, 0.94%
- 80-89 Years old, 0 votes, 0.00%
- 90+ Years young, 0 votes, 0.00%



For more information about this group, please visit
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains

For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17522 From: Horn, David Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: AM models releases
Hey, I was wondering if anyone was so fortunate as to have ordered and
received an AM SD-60 and an E-8, that you might enlighten the rest of us in
terms of they compare to each other. I'm assuming the internal drive train
is the same in both, but with different side frames on the trucks - -
correct? How's the sound system in the E-8- - good horn, tone, volume? Are
there random horn sounds like in the GG-1, or strictly by command? Can you
turn engine sounds on/off?

And as the Empire steamers ships, please weigh in with your findings.
Thanks, especially in terms of pulling power, top end scale speed, sounds
(mechanical chuff or e?).

Thank you.
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17523 From: yazfacts Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: I might be wrong but........
In the 2002 Lionel Vol.1 Catalog they show the #772 Water Tower.
Didn't the orginal Gilbert Tower have a ladder ?? Please list any and
all responces.Thank you......Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 17524 From: frogfender Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: 740 headache
I need help! A 740 I bought off the net will run(after cleaning
everything inside) till I put the body on and hook the men up. Then
it sits and buzzes and makes faces at me. Any suggestions?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17525 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: 740 headache
Could be the men are too stiff and sore from all that pumping! Really, the rubber
may be just too stiff from age and causing the bar too exert too much force against
the motor. Try disconnecting the men's "hands" from the bar to see if it works
then. Also check to see if the bar is bent or otherwise binding anywhere.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


frogfender wrote:

> I need help! A 740 I bought off the net will run(after cleaning
> everything inside) till I put the body on and hook the men up. Then
> it sits and buzzes and makes faces at me. Any suggestions?
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17526 From: THOMAS E HILLERY Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1333
Re: the off topic B-17 fans
Lindberg makes/made a 1/64 B-17 that might look good on your enormous
layout.
After all a mile runway is only about 82.5 feet. Also a He-111 and Ju-88
for WWII
era layouts. An ex girl-friend said " trains and planes for lames..."- T.
H.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17527 From: David Dewey Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: GP 7/9 was: L cat revisions
Hmm, Scott's comment is interesting. I'm not a rivet counter, but have
spent enough time painting locos at Portola to know THAT's not the
difference! Both locos could, or not, have them. Hmm. . . .
Speaking of Locos, how come L never did a GP in WP Orange/silver w/ tiger
stripe ends? That would be a cool-looking unit!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17528 From: Fire Wood Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Thanks! /Scherzer bridge
Hi all,

Thank y'all for the warm welcomes. Lively and friendly
bunch you are!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Model
Railroader "Bridges and Structures" book has a
scratchbuilding article on the Scherzer rolling lift
bridge.(Then again, I believe model railroad bridge
builders are a whole different breed.....) ;0)
Back to the trackplanning......looks like I have a
bridge to build.
Regards,
Dave W.


__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17529 From: tomsmitty2001 Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: engine bearings
Tom.....

I don't know if the bearings are being reproduced, but they can be
made, and they don't have to have the little ridges. The ridges were
an easy way to insure the bearings would stay in place when pushed
into the motor frame or the cap. I've used an oil-lite stock-size
bar turned on small Unimat lathe to match the dimensions of the
original. I've done several locomotives this way, the armature shafts
do vary just a bit, it's best to micrometer each one individaully and
try for a 0.003" over the shaft size for the drill you use, either a
number or letter size will be correct. In the absence of the four
ridges use a Loc-Tite bearing retainer ( or equivalent ). Since the
oil-lite is an oil-impregnated bronze, I've found it best to wipe the
exterior of the new bushing with a swab wetted with laquer thinner,
this cleans any oily residue from the surface from the machining
process as well as from just under the surface and gives the Loc-Tite
a good grip....also make sure you wipe the bore of the motor frame or
cap the same way before installing the bearings. If you go back a
couple of months in this list there was considerable talk about
facing the armature, and this will also help quiet the operation of
the motor. As far as using a silicone to bed the bearings, I would
think that by the time you have the bearing dimensions small enough
to get a decent amount of silicone to isolate the bearing from the
frame, you run a big risk of not having the armature central in the
field.....to me you'd have to build some sort fo fixture to insure
that the armature stays central, too much work relative to the
outcome. If you take some time to do the new bearings and face the
commutator, I think you'll be pleased with the results.

Regard"S",

Smitty
Group: S-Trains Message: 17530 From: Steve Blancard Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: engine bearings
Smitty,

Is the oil-lite bushing material available online somewhere ?

BTW, I just trued two commutators in my lathe the other day. A barrel type and a
flat type. The barrel type aren't hard to do, just small. But the copper on the
flat type is so thin that there is not much room for error. I took off less than
.005" and wouldn't want to take any more.

Thanks,

Steve Blancard

tomsmitty2001 wrote:

> Tom.....
>
> I don't know if the bearings are being reproduced, but they can be
> made, and they don't have to have the little ridges. The ridges were
> an easy way to insure the bearings would stay in place when pushed
> into the motor frame or the cap. I've used an oil-lite stock-size
> bar turned on small Unimat lathe to match the dimensions of the
> original. I've done several locomotives this way, the armature shafts
> do vary just a bit, it's best to micrometer each one individaully and
> try for a 0.003" over the shaft size for the drill you use, either a
> number or letter size will be correct. In the absence of the four
> ridges use a Loc-Tite bearing retainer ( or equivalent ). Since the
> oil-lite is an oil-impregnated bronze, I've found it best to wipe the
> exterior of the new bushing with a swab wetted with laquer thinner,
> this cleans any oily residue from the surface from the machining
> process as well as from just under the surface and gives the Loc-Tite
> a good grip....also make sure you wipe the bore of the motor frame or
> cap the same way before installing the bearings. If you go back a
> couple of months in this list there was considerable talk about
> facing the armature, and this will also help quiet the operation of
> the motor. As far as using a silicone to bed the bearings, I would
> think that by the time you have the bearing dimensions small enough
> to get a decent amount of silicone to isolate the bearing from the
> frame, you run a big risk of not having the armature central in the
> field.....to me you'd have to build some sort fo fixture to insure
> that the armature stays central, too much work relative to the
> outcome. If you take some time to do the new bearings and face the
> commutator, I think you'll be pleased with the results.
>
> Regard"S",
>
> Smitty
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17531 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1335
Northern tenders

I run a Hudson tender behind my 336. oil tenders are hard to find.
Hudson tenders turn up all the time. If you are an operator, it is the
way to go en tell a northern tender shows up. If you are buying one to
complete a loco. to sell, lots of luck finding one, BUT please tell the
future owner ( or mark it as restored templet )that it is a replacement
tender
Jerry 77-11644
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17532 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1333
Speaking of airplanes,

The DEC 2001 issue of WINGS has an article " The Doomed P-40s of the
57th pursuit group".
Col. John H. Pease, A member of the Rocky mountain Train collectors
Association was a pilot in this group. A very interesting story. His
interest is mainly prewar.
Jerry 77-11644









________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17533 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: New poll for S-Trains
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
S-Trains group:

This poll deals with a single question.
It attempts to measure the education
level of the list members. Instead of
naming degrees, I will ask for the
number of years of formal education.

o Less than 8 years
o Less than 12 years
o 13 years
o 14 years
o 15 years
o 16 years
o 17 years
o 18 years
o 19 years
o More than 19 years


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/polls

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17534 From: Michael Greene Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: AM models releases
I own neither at moment, but have looked at both. (Sure wish the SD-60s
were set for body mounted KD couplers straight from the manufacturer.) One
difference is that the American Models SD-60 is DCC ready, sporting a NMRA
DCC compatible socket where you can just plug in a decoder. While I have
not opened the E-8, my understanding is that the E-8 does not have the DCC
socket. Many thanks to American Models for the DCC support on the SD-60!!!I
hope they will continue to do that on all future engines...

Michael

At 12:33 PM 2/19/2002 -0500, Horn, David wrote:
>Hey, I was wondering if anyone was so fortunate as to have ordered and
>received an AM SD-60 and an E-8, that you might enlighten the rest of us in
>terms of they compare to each other. I'm assuming the internal drive train
>is the same in both, but with different side frames on the trucks - -
>correct? How's the sound system in the E-8- - good horn, tone, volume? Are
>there random horn sounds like in the GG-1, or strictly by command? Can you
>turn engine sounds on/off?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Greene Dunstable, MA 01827 USA
NMRA Life Member Past Chair, NMRA DCC Working Group
Member: NASG, Bristol S-Gaugers, NTRAK, TCA, The 470 Railroad Club
Web Sites: Bristol S Gaugers - http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com
National Assoc. of S Gaugers - http://www.nasg.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Group: S-Trains Message: 17535 From: Dan Brindell Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: L catalog
Does anyone know of a good mail order or Internet order source for "L"
items?
(The water tower kinda got my attention....).

Dan Brindell

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
To: "s-trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 11:07 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] L cat revisions


> Hi all,
> This was just posted to the TCA list, two items that will be of
interest
> to us--lower price on the water tower and the RI loco will be a GP-7.
> S'
> David D.
>
> Subject: Lionel Catalog Corrections
>
> Lionel has announced some revisions to their catalog.
>
> Stu
>
> 12888 Railroad Crossing Flasher, the correct RETAIL price is 39.95 not
> $59.95 as stated in the catalog.
>
> 31701 Boy's Train Set, the correct RETAIL price is $449.95 not $499.95 as
> stated in the catalog.
>
> 49809 American Flyer Water Tower, the correct RETAIL price is $89.95 not
> $149.95 as stated in the catalog.
>
> Pages 6-7: All Adventure Sets track layout dimensions are 27"x63". The
> Circus Train will come with an operating track section for use with the
> elephant car.
>
> Page 16: 50th Anniversary Set. Minimum radius should be O-54. Trucks will
be
> black.
>
> Page 23: Southern Berkshire Locomotive. Color will be prototypical
Southern
> green.
>
> Page 37: Track Cleaner Car. This is a non-powered car.
>
> Page 42: Delaware & Hudson U30C (6-28200). This item is a Lionel Service
> Station Exclusive.
>
> Page 45: SD-40-2 Locomotives. Minimum radius is O-31 and loco length is
17
> 1/4".
>
> Page 53: Stock Cars. Minimum radius is O-31, length is 10".
>
> Pages 56-57: Milk Cars. Minimum radius is O-31, approx. length is 10".
>
> Page 60: Erie Lackawanna Box Car. This item will be produced with plastic
> trucks.
>
> Page 61: Southern Caboose. Roof will be black.
>
> Page 64-65: All rolling stock minimum radius is O-27.
>
> Page 70: Searchlight Car (6-26768) will be produced as #3520. Catalog is
> incorrect.
>
> Page 71: Bosco Milk Car. Remote operating track required (not included
with
> item).
>
> Page 74: Rock Island locomotive will be produced as a GP-7. Correct
retail
> price for #722 Water Tower is $89.95.
>
> Page 79: Lion Oil Derrick. Correct retail price is $79.95.
>
> Page93: Norfolk Southern Die-cast Girder Bridge, correct item number is
> 6-14176.
> Page 93: Mainline Classic Lamps (6-22950) have been cancelled
>
>
> Stuart Rankin
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17536 From: theheadliner@adoption.com Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: smoke
Clifford,

How much amgel hair do you need. I have some and might be able to help you out.


jerry

>I am rebuilding my 312 and the smoke unit is the problem. First I can
>not find any angel hair. Second, I tried using the previous horse hair
>but burned the wire every time. I have wire and Tom's CD for repair.
>Angel hair or replacement for it would help.
>
>Any help would be appreciated.
>
>Clifford Manning
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>
>
>
______________________________________________
Is your life touched by adoption . . . or do you wish it were?
Visit www.Adoption.com.
Get FREE Adoption.com e-mail at www.AdoptionMail.com.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17537 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: smoke
Hi,

This afternoon I rebuilt an old #302 Atlantic hulk. After I got the loco running, I converted it to DC voltage using a bridge rectifier and disconnecting the reverse unit. I use DC track voltage with DPDT switches to reverse direction of my locos. In the process of rebuilding that hulk, I tinkered with the smoke box. I didn't have a new replacement wick and wire, so I took out the old one, cut the wick in half and rewound the wire around one half and stuffed it back into the smoke chamber, making sure the wire coil didn't sit too low or stick up too high. I greased up the paper gaskets with Vaseline and 'sealed' the choo-choo unit piston with Vaseline as well. It's now my best smoker! Will it last, or burn out? I don't know. Time will tell. Doesn't it seem like Gilbert used an awful lot of angle hair in those smoke chambers?

Another thought: I chucked up the armature in my drill press and held a small block of wood with #220 grit emery paper on it and trued up the commutator. The trick is to not take too much copper off. Maybe one of those cardboard fingernail files would work, too. Also, it's important to clean out the slots with a toothpick. That baby shines real bright now.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: <theheadliner@...>
To: "Clifford Manning" <clifma19@...>
Cc: <s-trains@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] smoke


> Clifford,
>
> How much amgel hair do you need. I have some and might be able to help you out.
>
>
> jerry
>
> >I am rebuilding my 312 and the smoke unit is the problem. First I can
> >not find any angel hair. Second, I tried using the previous horse hair
> >but burned the wire every time. I have wire and Tom's CD for repair.
> >Angel hair or replacement for it would help.
> >
> >Any help would be appreciated.
> >
> >Clifford Manning
> >
> >
> >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> >
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________
> Is your life touched by adoption . . . or do you wish it were?
> Visit www.Adoption.com.
> Get FREE Adoption.com e-mail at www.AdoptionMail.com.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17538 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: All this B-17 stuff
Neener, neener,

I rode in one....April 1956. Survived the crash of a Mitchell B-25 one month
later.
And that's why when I got out of the Air Force I vowed to never fly again....
Keeps me from lots of Good "S": shows but I ain't never gonna be in another
plane crash.

Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17539 From: tomsmitty2001 Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: oil-lite bushing material
Steve.....

Yep, you can find the oil-lite bearing stock ( as well as a bajillion
other things ) through McMaster-Carr. Go to: www.mcmastercarr.com
On their homepage they have several headings, scroll down to the one
that's titled " Raw Materials & Springs ", look carefully
for "metals", then click on "bronze", then "SAE 841 oil-
impregnated", then "rods" and then choose your size. A 3/8" dia. x
3" length is their part number 8932K32 and costs you $ 3.82 McM-C
is incredibly well stocked, you should have no trouble getting what
you need.

When you true up the commutator faces do you support the out-board
end ? I've used old bearings held in the tailstock, makes for better
results.

Regard"S",

Smitty
Group: S-Trains Message: 17540 From: gino restivo Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: re , smoke and poll use ?
hi all , just a note on using vaseline in the
smoke unit .... the fluid will dissolve the
vaseline ...i found several messes under
loco's after sitting on track about a week's
time , did you use it on carbon type
pistons ?

going to vote in this poll was a pain again !
had to go thru sign in , etc, about 25 mins
time before it let me in , anybody else have
this problem ?

is it blocking me out because i won't give or
make up alternate e-mail ? ? ?

have fun , gino






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17541 From: David Dewey Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: engine bearings
When truing armatures in the lathe, I try to take only enough off to clean
it up a bit. On some armatures, there isn't much there to start with! .005
seems like a lot to me.
Also, I would not pick a drill size .003 larger than the shaft. I would
choose one the same size, as drills make holes larger than their diameter.
Clearance on something this small in diameter would be find at .0005 to
.001. GADS, the bearings in your car engine are set to .001 to .0015, and
they are much larger surfaces.
I'm glad this subject has come up, as I haven't yet replaced these bearings
with new ones, but it makes very good sense. I wonder if it would effect the
"faster in reverse" syndrome?
Well, now that I've stoked up the fire, I'll duck out!
:-)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17542 From: David Dewey Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: smoke
Some thoughts on smoke unit rebuilds.
1) getting the wire wound area centered is critical!
2) Lubricants used to "soften" the gaskets will get washed away by the smoke
fluid. I have used "The Right Stuff" by Permatex with good success. It is
expensive, comes in an areosol can with a nozzel tip. After you are through
using it, leave the tip, etc. alone. When you want to use it again (days,
weeks? later) you can unscrew the nozzel, pull the cured stuff out of the
can valve and work it out of the nozzel, and the can will still dispense!
Another tip for sealing the gaskets is to coat the outside edges after it's
assembled with fingernail polish. Sounds good to me.
3) Two types of pistons were used, a "cast" one and the carbon disk. The
carbon disk is self-lubricating, and lubrication on it actually gums up the
works.
4) Check the entry hole into the smoke chamber when you are in there, I have
seen these blocked by a spider egg (or whatever it is). No hole, no smoke!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17543 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: Thanks! /Scherzer bridge
I have two books with rolling bridges. The first is what I think you are talking
about. It is Model Railroad Bridges and Trestles from Model Railroader Magazine
(1992), and the Scherzer bridge is on page 90. The other book is Bridge & Trestle
Handbook by Paul Mallery (1972) and rolling bridges are described on page 119.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO



Fire Wood wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Thank y'all for the warm welcomes. Lively and friendly
> bunch you are!
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Model
> Railroader "Bridges and Structures" book has a
> scratchbuilding article on the Scherzer rolling lift
> bridge.(Then again, I believe model railroad bridge
> builders are a whole different breed.....) ;0)
> Back to the trackplanning......looks like I have a
> bridge to build.
> Regards,
> Dave W.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
> http://sports.yahoo.com
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17544 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: mail car stands
Has anyone attempted to make a mail car stand on their own?

Jacques
Group: S-Trains Message: 17545 From: tomsmitty2001 Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: engine bearings
David.....True 0.003" seems like a lot, but one thing I do is use a
sharp drill bit, that is to say, a new one ~ this will reduce or
eliminate the oversizing common to miss-sharpened drills. The first
locomotives I rebushed, I did indeed use a bit 0.001" over the shaft
diameter and found it too tight, a theory as to why: Gilbert's
manufacturing tolerances weren't close enough to allow for it. With
the typical steam armature setup you've got five parts ( the frame,
the bearing at the worm end, the field stack, the bakelite cap and
the small bearing it holds ) that have to line up at better than
0.001" error in order to successfully allow you to run the shaft in a
0.001" oversize bearing. You can verify this by drilling the bushing
at the 0.001" oversize, installing it, and then slide in the
armature, the armature spins free. When you then replace the small
bearing at the other end and set it in place, the armature binds and
isn't strong enough to overcome the resistance.

As to the 0.005" off the face of the commutator segments, I guess
it'd depend entirely on how bad they were scored, obviously the
lesser the better. At least when you've gotten the last use out of
the armature, there's always the alternative of the can motor
replacement kits !

Regard"S",

Smitty

BTW, from what I've been told, the Mobi-whatever model company never
produced anything other than some pretty pictures for the catalogues.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17546 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: mail car stands
Yes. See my mail car actuator at:
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/feature/actuator.htm
on Paul Yorke's web page.

Jollivier4@... wrote:
>
> Has anyone attempted to make a mail car stand on their own?
>
> Jacques
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17547 From: Mike Vana Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Rock Island, dynamic brakes and Geeps
Scott, or "srgriggs" <sgriggs@...> wrote:

Lionel has always used the dynamic brake blister to distinguish
between GP7's and GP9's. Although it probably wouldn't bother the
majority of Flyer collectors/operators, the Rock Island never owned
diesels with dynamic brakes so the switch to a GP7 model w/o the
blister is a good move.
----
You are almost correct about Rock Island owning no diesels with
dynamic brakes. They bought 10 GP7's from the Rio Grande that had
them, RI numbers 4200-4209. Also they bought E8's, E9's, and F9's
from the UP which had dynamic brakes, which RI probably removed or
disconnected.

As the the GP7 and GP9 differences, either model was built with
or without dynamic brakes. I know that this is how Lionel has
differentiated them in its catalogs, but that is NOT how to tell
them apart. The most important difference was horsepower - 1500 in
a GP7, and 1750 in a GP9. There are spotting differences, many of
which disappeared through the years as the locomotives were rebuilt.

Also, a low nose Geep isn't always a GP20. Many GP7's and GP9's
were rebuilt with low noses. A few on SP and copper company
Phelps Dodge were even built that way. There were even high nose
GP20's built for GN and WP. Then there are GP18's which Lionel
has totally ignored.

For Lionel to leave off the dynamic brakes is a good sign that
they are trying to be more accurate. Rock Island GP9's were
delivered in maroon paint with white stripes. Only GP7's were
delivered in the red, black, and white that Lionel is going to
make. I complained about their GP7/GP9 thing a couple months ago.
Perhaps somebody from Lionel reads this list, or others have
contacted them about their inaccuracy. I know - "they are only
toys", but it's time to dispel that Lionel myth.

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17548 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: COAL TRAY
If someone is still looking for an org coal tray here is the e-Bay #
1705238083 $15.00 opening bid no bids yet Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17549 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: smoke
I seem to always be cutting off some of the angel hair that comes on the replacement units (I get all mine from Port Lines) as they always seem to be too tightly packed into the chamber. Haven't had any replacements fail yet and all smoke very well with Mike's smoke fluid.

On your armatures, you may want to go to 400 or 600 wet/dry. 220 leaves a lot of scratches in my opinion and can really remove metal fast. Be careful in the drill press chuck as they have a lot of runout typically. I do mine on a Taig Micro lathe.

For those of you looking for angel hair, try Michael's or Hobby lobby. I got a package before Christmas when people are using it for decorations. Both have online sites as well.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


Tim Brown wrote:

> Hi,
>
> This afternoon I rebuilt an old #302 Atlantic hulk. After I got the loco running, I converted it to DC voltage using a bridge rectifier and disconnecting the reverse unit. I use DC track voltage with DPDT switches to reverse direction of my locos. In the process of rebuilding that hulk, I tinkered with the smoke box. I didn't have a new replacement wick and wire, so I took out the old one, cut the wick in half and rewound the wire around one half and stuffed it back into the smoke chamber, making sure the wire coil didn't sit too low or stick up too high. I greased up the paper gaskets with Vaseline and 'sealed' the choo-choo unit piston with Vaseline as well. It's now my best smoker! Will it last, or burn out? I don't know. Time will tell. Doesn't it seem like Gilbert used an awful lot of angle hair in those smoke chambers?
>
> Another thought: I chucked up the armature in my drill press and held a small block of wood with #220 grit emery paper on it and trued up the commutator. The trick is to not take too much copper off. Maybe one of those cardboard fingernail files would work, too. Also, it's important to clean out the slots with a toothpick. That baby shines real bright now.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <theheadliner@...>
> To: "Clifford Manning" <clifma19@...>
> Cc: <s-trains@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 7:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] smoke
>
> > Clifford,
> >
> > How much amgel hair do you need. I have some and might be able to help you out.
> >
> >
> > jerry
> >
> > >I am rebuilding my 312 and the smoke unit is the problem. First I can
> > >not find any angel hair. Second, I tried using the previous horse hair
> > >but burned the wire every time. I have wire and Tom's CD for repair.
> > >Angel hair or replacement for it would help.
> > >
> > >Any help would be appreciated.
> > >
> > >Clifford Manning
> > >
> > >
> > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> > >
> > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ______________________________________________
> > Is your life touched by adoption . . . or do you wish it were?
> > Visit www.Adoption.com.
> > Get FREE Adoption.com e-mail at www.AdoptionMail.com.
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17550 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Polls
>Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
>S-Trains group:

No, I don't think I will. Enough with these facacta polls already.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17551 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: WP Flyonel
Wasn't someone looking for WP cars the other day?
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1706730516
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17552 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Ideas
Hi,

I double-checked the grit on the Emery cloth I was using on the commutator and it's 400, not 220. I think it's great when someone expresses an idea, and others join in to sweeten it. IMHO, this is one of the strong points of belonging to the S-list. It's what keeps me plugged in.

Thanks all,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17553 From: jahoozdumm Date: 2/19/2002
Subject: Re: L cat revisions
Scott wrote:

>Lionel has always used the dynamic brake blister to distinguish
>between GP7's and GP9's.

Very true, and of course, Lionel either doesn't know (or hopes S
gaugers don't know) that GP7s and GP9's are NOT distinguished from
each other by the presence or absence of dynamic brakes. (Both were
available either way.) Every Flyonel geep ever made is essentially a
GP7 by all the critical features.

>the Rock Island never owned diesels with dynamic brakes so the
>switch to a GP7 model w/o the blister is a good move.

Well, at least there's one less part to assemble. Think of the
plastic saved!

Am I the only S gauger getting a belly laugh out of "new" AF this
year? Ten years ago I used to cry a little at each years Lionel
product announcements, lately I just yawn. This year, guffaws. It
must be my new SD60 cheering me up...


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17554 From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Subject: Northern tenders
Dave Fletcher phone no. is 978-374-8783 new area code.

AL

Tom Jarcho Wrote >

I tried to call David Fletcher (Colonial Castings) yesterday for you
tender
hunting guys. No answer. Haven't talked to him in years. He used to
make
Northern tender bodies and floors. I never saw a body, only used several
floors to repair 334's. 508 374-8783 after 7 PM eastern time is the
info
I have. I don't know if it is still current.

Tom Jarcho
________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17555 From: crustyfour Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: engine bearings
--- In S-Trains@y..., "David Dewey" <djdewey@c...> wrote:
> When truing armatures in the lathe, I try to take only enough off
to clean it up a bit. On some armatures, there isn't much there to
start with! .005 seems like a lot to me.


This armature had some pretty deep grooves. I said less than .005",
I didn't measure it. But I only turned off the amount necessary to
true it, no more.

As for using emory board or sandpaper on a stick; this will clean and
shine the commutator but it will not true it. The stick will follow
the worn contour of the commutator no matter how firm you try to hold
it. It will smooth off rough edges but will not 1) perfectly true
the worn surface caused by brush pressure. Or 2) it will not true
the commutator concentric to the shaft. When a shaft bearing gets
worn (typically egg shaped) the commutator diamter will wear unevenly
too. Truing in a lathe corrects both types of wear.

I realize not everyone has a lathe but I want everyone to understand
that there is a big difference in the result from each process. You
may very well see some performance improvement after sanding with
emory board, but if the commutator is badly worn, you'll see an
amazing improvement following a lathe truing.

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 17556 From: crustyfour Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: oil-lite bushing material
--- In S-Trains@y..., "tomsmitty2001" <SMITTY@t...> wrote:
> snip>
> When you true up the commutator faces do you support the out-board
> end ? I've used old bearings held in the tailstock, makes for
better results.
>

Smitty,

Thanks. McMaster-Carr has just about everything.

To hold the commutator end shaft I took a piece of 3/8" brass stock
and drilled a short blind hole about .001" over the shaft size and
about .040" deep. I put this in the tailstock chuck with a drop of
oil in the hole. Then mounted the armature with the shaft slipped
into the hole. I had to turn down the OD of the brass at the hole end
to allow room for the cutting tool to get in. Works good for me.

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 17557 From: Horn, David Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: 740
The men must be very supple and flexible not to work against the motor (if
stiff enought they will lock it up). Also be certain the rocker-lever
teeter-totters freely and there's no interference at the point of connection
between the push rod and the rocker. One test is to remove the arms of the
men from the rocker and see what happens. See a recent post by me for more
about work I did on one.
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17558 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: I might be wrong but........
I looked at my original and it has a ladder.

yazfacts wrote:
>
> In the 2002 Lionel Vol.1 Catalog they show the #772 Water Tower.
> Didn't the orginal Gilbert Tower have a ladder ?? Please list any and
> all responces.Thank you......Bob
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17559 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Ebay Seller ending auction
There were a couple of mint AF cars on Ebay by a single seller and I sent a question to this seller to see if he would guarantee these items to be mint, in the event I would happen to win one car or both cars, since I collect mint flyer. One was a 936 PA Flat and the other was a 983 MoPac. Maybe some of you saw those cars and some of you may have been bidding on them too. The pictures, although, small, show the cars with no blemishes, but it was hard to tell if they were mint. I didn't like the way the wheels on the Mopac looked, so I emailed the seller my questions about them last night and he promptly, responded back, that they were mint and he would guarantee the sell, since they could of gone for allot of money. Then about a hour later, they disappeared from Ebay. The auction was to end tomorrow. My thought is that they were not mint and he pulled them. I emailed him about this and he wrote that he found a buyer for them. Okay, maybe he did, but I feel, since bidders will get negative feedback and an investigation from Ebay for retracting any bids, I feel sellers, should have the same treatment too. Although, he said he can end the auction, I did check out "ending a auction" on Ebay and it said he needed to provide a good explanation for ending the auction. I feel that is not right. I feel he is not an honorable person. Just my opinion. Some of you may had a bid on these two cars and didn't know what happen or did he contact you to tell you? I was able to track him down since I had his email address and I still have his "made up name". I don't know if I should give it out and if he is on this site. I doubt it, because he is not a member of TCA, which many on this list are not and that is not a requirement to be on S list.

My main problem with this whole thing, is that sellers shouldn't be allow to do the above, without major action by Ebay. Selling any items, while on Ebay and the auction is still in progress, is a terrible way to do business.

Just my opinion that will past in time, just very disappointed that the auction was withdrawn like this,

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17560 From: Horn, David Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: smoke units and Vaseline
I do not recommend using Vaseline for any purposes. Maybe that's from too
often having to painstakingly remove the stuff after it has petrified into
place after 40-50 years. But eventually it does coagulate into a gummy
substance which works more against the mechanism (gear, axle, bushing,
whatever) it was originally applied to than it does to help matters.
Vaseline has been surpassed by better and more modern lubricant and sealant
alternatives. I also seldom find it necessary to add gasket enhancer to top
or bottom smoke unit plates if they are in reasonably good condition to
start with. I gently plane off any smoke fluid and/or gasket residue from
the metal rim of the unit with a broad sharp blade, wet the gasket with
smoke fluid, and ensure that all 6 (top) or 4 (bottom) screws can screw down
tightly. Let the unit run and look for leaks.
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17561 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1336
In a message dated 02/19/2002 7:07:13 PM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> "yazfacts" <YAZFACTS@...>
> Subject: I might be wrong but........
>
> In the 2002 Lionel Vol.1 Catalog they show the #772 Water Tower.
> Didn't the orginal Gilbert Tower have a ladder ?? Please list any and
> all responces.Thank you......Bob
>
>
>
>

Yes, it did. On the side opposite the "shack" ....Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17562 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: aircraft and airports(and B-17's)
hey gang-1/72 will have to do for yer airports.1/144
is the most common airliner scale,and it just looks
too small. BUT thirties and fifties types abound in
1/72-if ya know where to look...Start off getting a
Squadron Shop subscription-a whole $5. Therein you'll
find-Monogram Ford 4-AT trimotor, Airfix 5-AT trimotor
(both are good lil kits that feature TWA and Eastern
markings respectively). Beechcraft 18-very common,
even today small twin. Available from at least 3 mfrs.
Lockheed 10 Electra-one in 1/72, one in 1/55. Lockheed
Orion-single engine, Varney/TWA- one current, one
former mfr. Lockheed 14 Super Electra - Airfix
Hudson.Lockheed 18 Super Electra-Academy Ventura.
Douglas DC-3-Aitfix or ESCI. Get yer favorite livery
from ATP (see ads in Fine Scale Modeler). Boeing
247-Williams Bros. Boeing Stratocruiser-Academy.
Lockheed Connie and Super "G"- Heller.Douglas DC-4:
Heller. Curtiss Condor:Glencoe. Curtiss
Commando(Flying Tigers Freight livery): Williams Bros.
Now, for the hard-to-find: Ecclectic vac forms-
Stinson Model A, V, and T trimotors - Form-a-Plane: :
Form-a-Plane (difficult kits for beginners). Curtiss
Condor: Form-a-Plane. Sikorsky S-38 (Pan Am):Esoteric
Models, Martin M-130 China Clipper, Sikorsky S-42
Clipper, and Boeing 332 Clipper: Combat Models.Piper
cubs are hard to find in 1/72, as are most light
planes. The Plasticville airport set is really very
representative of the airports of the pre WW2 era. The
airport in Stratford, CT has 3 of the p-ville style
hangars, one of which was an Eastern hangar/Curtiss
maintenance hangar-the paint keeps spalling off the
Curtiss logo every few years, and does THAT ever make
my eyes water. As for military types, virtually every
WW2 bomber is there in 1/72. A B-17 G ar PBY converted
to spraying was a common sight at a lot of East Coast
airports into the 60's-especially in FLA. ATP also has
an ever-changing line of limited production
airliners-see them too.-john marganski

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17563 From: hcopter52 Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Help with flyer layout
Anyone near Downers Grove Illinois want to help a real amateur build
and construct an s-gauge layout. So many possibilities that i need
advice and help with construction. I am not a carpenter and do not
know anyone who is good with a saw or hammer. I cannot afford
thousands of dollars to have the professional builders do it. One
person was going to charge me big bucks just for a track plan design.
My available space is approx. a 10x10 foot bedroom. Layout is
partially built on a flat surface approx. 6x9 feet.My needs are
fairly simple. Just want to run a passenger and freight, have some
elevation and a place for all my accessories. Please email if
interested. Thanks,John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17564 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: 13irishfan13
AVOID BIDDING ANYTHING FROM 13IRISHFAN13! BUYER BEWARE!

HE IS BAD LUCK LIKE THE NUMBER 13 AND NOTRE DAME IS BETTER OFF WITHOUT HIM!

MIKE MARMER WHO IS HAPPY HIS AUCTION FELL THROUGH AND SO IS HIS CHECK BOOK!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17565 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: smoke units and Vaseline
Hi,

I think you have made some valid points. Maybe I'm showing my age to coat everything with Vaseline. I doubt I will outlast the 40-50 years Vaseline-life you mentioned, but it's still a good point. Gee, maybe there are other products out there besides Vaseline, duct tape and WD40. I gotta get out more!

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Horn, David" <david.horn@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 12:09 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] RE:smoke units and Vaseline


> I do not recommend using Vaseline for any purposes. Maybe that's from too
> often having to painstakingly remove the stuff after it has petrified into
> place after 40-50 years. But eventually it does coagulate into a gummy
> substance which works more against the mechanism (gear, axle, bushing,
> whatever) it was originally applied to than it does to help matters.
> Vaseline has been surpassed by better and more modern lubricant and sealant
> alternatives. I also seldom find it necessary to add gasket enhancer to top
> or bottom smoke unit plates if they are in reasonably good condition to
> start with. I gently plane off any smoke fluid and/or gasket residue from
> the metal rim of the unit with a broad sharp blade, wet the gasket with
> smoke fluid, and ensure that all 6 (top) or 4 (bottom) screws can screw down
> tightly. Let the unit run and look for leaks.
> The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
> the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
> contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
> this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
> views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
> the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
> immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
> of this message.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17566 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: 13irishfan13
You wont't have to worry about bidding on this guys stuff for the near
future! He now shows up as "not a registered user".This is what shows up
when a member is suspended,or quits ebay.Since it is free to be a user,
quiting seems pointless.If you have a problem with a seller or buyer contact
ebay safe harbor.They can't do anything if they aren't informed of the
problem.


Keith


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17567 From: rodgers_carl Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
What is your warning based on? Did you have a dealing with him that
went bad? His feedback is all positive.

--- In S-Trains@y..., "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@m...> wrote:
> AVOID BIDDING ANYTHING FROM 13IRISHFAN13! BUYER BEWARE!
>
> HE IS BAD LUCK LIKE THE NUMBER 13 AND NOTRE DAME IS BETTER OFF
WITHOUT HIM!
>
> MIKE MARMER WHO IS HAPPY HIS AUCTION FELL THROUGH AND SO IS HIS
CHECK BOOK!
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17568 From: rodgers_carl Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
Where did you find that he is not a registered user? I just did a
search of the ID and it came up.


--- In S-Trains@y..., "Keith Kuzma" <keithkuzma@h...> wrote:
>
> You wont't have to worry about bidding on this guys stuff for the
near
> future! He now shows up as "not a registered user".This is what
shows up
> when a member is suspended,or quits ebay.Since it is free to be a
user,
> quiting seems pointless.If you have a problem with a seller or
buyer contact
> ebay safe harbor.They can't do anything if they aren't informed of
the
> problem.
>
>
> Keith
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
http://mobile.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17569 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
Keith,

His stuff was on Ebay until yesterday and he has been banned since August,
2001. He had many more items up for bid, other than these two cars.

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Kuzma" <keithkuzma@...>
To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:44 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] re:13irishfan13


>
> You wont't have to worry about bidding on this guys stuff for the near
> future! He now shows up as "not a registered user".This is what shows up
> when a member is suspended,or quits ebay.Since it is free to be a user,
> quiting seems pointless.If you have a problem with a seller or buyer
contact
> ebay safe harbor.They can't do anything if they aren't informed of the
> problem.
>
>
> Keith
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17570 From: rodgers_carl Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
I don't understand, if he has been banned since August of 2001, how
did he list stuff? How does he have recent feedback? And how did you
find out he was banned since August 2001?


--- In S-Trains@y..., "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@m...> wrote:
> Keith,
>
> His stuff was on Ebay until yesterday and he has been banned since
August,
> 2001. He had many more items up for bid, other than these two cars.
>
> Mike
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Keith Kuzma" <keithkuzma@h...>
> To: <s-trains@y...>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:44 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] re:13irishfan13
>
>
> >
> > You wont't have to worry about bidding on this guys stuff for the
near
> > future! He now shows up as "not a registered user".This is what
shows up
> > when a member is suspended,or quits ebay.Since it is free to be a
user,
> > quiting seems pointless.If you have a problem with a seller or
buyer
> contact
> > ebay safe harbor.They can't do anything if they aren't informed
of the
> > problem.
> >
> >
> > Keith
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
http://mobile.msn.com
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
Group: S-Trains Message: 17571 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
Carl,

I guess you didn't read my post from this morning about the two MINT items
he had for bid and how they mysteriously were sold off Ebay, which is a
major seller violation. I think these two items were not MINT, I caught him
and he took them off for bid. The wheels on the MoPac (picture is gone now,
you could see the film build up) has a look of use to them on both trucks.
He didn't respond back to me last night when I emailed him about the items
being gone. Only, when I email him, to ask him why I should not file a
complaint, he wrote back saying he sold them as a group, not on Ebay, and it
is okay to cancel seller's auction, which is NOT okay, according to Ebay,
unless you have a good reason. This is as bad as a bidder re-tracking a
bid.

You think this is okay? Forget the part about whether the cars where mint
of not, it is the slimy way he ended his auction, not the way to do business
on Ebay.

You can check out members status by clicking "search members".

I am so happy I didn't send him any money, I don't trust this person.

Mike Marmer
----- Original Message -----
From: "rodgers_carl" <rodgers_carl@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:45 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: 13irishfan13


> What is your warning based on? Did you have a dealing with him that
> went bad? His feedback is all positive.
>
> --- In S-Trains@y..., "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@m...> wrote:
> > AVOID BIDDING ANYTHING FROM 13IRISHFAN13! BUYER BEWARE!
> >
> > HE IS BAD LUCK LIKE THE NUMBER 13 AND NOTRE DAME IS BETTER OFF
> WITHOUT HIM!
> >
> > MIKE MARMER WHO IS HAPPY HIS AUCTION FELL THROUGH AND SO IS HIS
> CHECK BOOK!
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17572 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
That is a good question for Ebay!

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "rodgers_carl" <rodgers_carl@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 4:01 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: re:13irishfan13


> I don't understand, if he has been banned since August of 2001, how
> did he list stuff? How does he have recent feedback? And how did you
> find out he was banned since August 2001?
>
>
> --- In S-Trains@y..., "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@m...> wrote:
> > Keith,
> >
> > His stuff was on Ebay until yesterday and he has been banned since
> August,
> > 2001. He had many more items up for bid, other than these two cars.
> >
> > Mike
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Keith Kuzma" <keithkuzma@h...>
> > To: <s-trains@y...>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:44 PM
> > Subject: [S-Trains] re:13irishfan13
> >
> >
> > >
> > > You wont't have to worry about bidding on this guys stuff for the
> near
> > > future! He now shows up as "not a registered user".This is what
> shows up
> > > when a member is suspended,or quits ebay.Since it is free to be a
> user,
> > > quiting seems pointless.If you have a problem with a seller or
> buyer
> > contact
> > > ebay safe harbor.They can't do anything if they aren't informed
> of the
> > > problem.
> > >
> > >
> > > Keith
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
> http://mobile.msn.com
> > >
> > >
> > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> > >
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17573 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: 13irishfan13
Here is his standing at Ebay
I don't like creeps like this guy. I and others have been burned in the past, whether in trains or in other types of dealings. I have had bad dealings in the past in other hobbies. He made a bad mistake in many ways yesterday.

Mike Marmer
User ID History for 13irishfan13
User ID History Effective Date End Date
13irishfan13 Monday, Aug 13, 2001 User Suspended not a registered user

*** - Parts of prior User IDs that are email addresses are concealed
to protect member privacy.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17574 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
Keith and all,

Sorry, effective date is August, 2001 as a member. I am doing too many
things at once. My apologies on that, but he is still a creep. But he is
still suspended, probably for things like what happen yesterday,
mis-representing his merchandise.

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Kuzma" <keithkuzma@...>
To: <mlmarmer@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] re:13irishfan13


> >Mike , where did you find out he has been banned since august 2001.In his
> >profile it says member since 2001.Keith
>
>
> >From: "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@...>
> >To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [S-Trains] re:13irishfan13
> >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:55:22 -0500
> >
> >Keith,
> >
> >His stuff was on Ebay until yesterday and he has been banned since
August,
> >2001. He had many more items up for bid, other than these two cars.
> >
> >Mike
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Keith Kuzma" <keithkuzma@...>
> >To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:44 PM
> >Subject: [S-Trains] re:13irishfan13
> >
> >
> > >
> > > You wont't have to worry about bidding on this guys stuff for the near
> > > future! He now shows up as "not a registered user".This is what shows
up
> > > when a member is suspended,or quits ebay.Since it is free to be a
user,
> > > quiting seems pointless.If you have a problem with a seller or buyer
> >contact
> > > ebay safe harbor.They can't do anything if they aren't informed of the
> > > problem.
> > >
> > >
> > > Keith
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
> > >
> > >
> > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> > >
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> >s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> >s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Keith
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17575 From: Thomas Stoltz Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: MTH number
Train Gang,

Someone posted the 800 number to MTH the other day and I can't find it now.

Would you please post it again?

Also, got word from MTH that they have an extension for their Gabe. It is #BC-5200001, $9.95 plus S&H.

The MTH site I guess is not working, which is why I'm looking for the 800 number.

Thanks,

Tom

If you are looking for a separate connector for the end of the controller
cable, we do no carry this separately. The entire controller would have to
be purchased. This is Part Number HH-5200185 and costs $25 plus shipping &
handling. If you are trying to extend your operating control away from
Gabe, we have an extension cable, Part Number BC-5200001. This would cost
$9.95 plus shipping & handling.

Either way, you can order this on-line at www.mthtrains.com and click on
the Service link from our home page and then use the Parts Orders section
of our site.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17576 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: AM models releases
David
I have been running the SD60's and E-8's on my show layout along with F-3's
since they have been out and everyone really likes all of them. They run 6
to 8 hours a day. The SD60's made the front page of the newspaper coverage
of the last show I did. Another front page picture of 2 kids awed with Gabe
showed my layout was a favorite. If I ever get the rest of the new accessories
I have ordered, we will really show them a layout. The only complaint I get
is not enough Southern Pacific items to sell.
I usually have David Dewey at the throttles while I do the sales, and we both
think the sounds and operation of all of them are excellent including the limited
time we have run the Empire Express. We haven't put enough cars on the track
to slow any of them down. Right Duck!!!??
Howard Sheffield
Howard' S Trains
>Hey, I was wondering if anyone was so fortunate as to have ordered and
>received an AM SD-60 and an E-8, that you might enlighten the rest of us in

>terms of they compare to each other. I'm assuming the internal drive train

>is the same in both, but with different side frames on the trucks - -
>correct? How's the sound system in the E-8- - good horn, tone, volume? Are

>there random horn sounds like in the GG-1, or strictly by command? Can you

>turn engine sounds on/off?
>
>And as the Empire steamers ships, please weigh in with your findings.
>Thanks, especially in terms of pulling power, top end scale speed, sounds
>(mechanical chuff or e?).
>
>Thank you.
>The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for

>the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the

>contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in

>this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
>views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
>the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.

>immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies

>of this message.
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>
>
>
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17577 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: MORE COAL TRAYS
Here is another listing for coal trays. These appear to be repos
E-Bay # 1707719855 Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17578 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay Seller ending auction
Hi Dan,

It is tough call, were they mint, did he sell them off Ebay, but it is not
allowed to remove an item from auction without good cause. That is not a
good cause, since Ebay loses it's seller's fee. Plus, he is too notified
all bidders, I was not at the time, but he MUST leave the auction posted,
saying auction ended. He completely remove the items from Ebay's data base.
Plus, he is Already suspended from selling on ebay. It doesn't look good
for him and I am better off, like you said.

Thanks for responding, I hope others don't ever face this situation, but
things will happen and one must be prepare to deal with it, whether at York,
a local show or on Ebay. At least in person, you can see the item.

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Brindell" <dbrindell@...>
To: "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Ebay Seller ending auction


> It's a tough call. In a "real" live auction, of course, once the auction
> starts, the seller can't take it back. He can specify a reserve price
> before the auction starts, but that is all.
>
> On ebay, the auctions take longer, so maybe it could be considered OK for
> the seller to call it quits. However, I don't think so. Once an auction
> starts, it is a commitment to sell. You are within your rights to
complain
> to ebay about him. I think, if he gets three complaints, he can be barred
> from further auctions.
>
> At least you didn't lose any money on the deal. Just a little bit of your
> time, that you spent looking at the auction. It could have been worse.
>
> Dan Brindell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@...>
> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 11:25 AM
> Subject: [S-Trains] Ebay Seller ending auction
>
>
> > There were a couple of mint AF cars on Ebay by a single seller and I
sent
> a question to this seller to see if he would guarantee these items to be
> mint, in the event I would happen to win one car or both cars, since I
> collect mint flyer. One was a 936 PA Flat and the other was a 983 MoPac.
> Maybe some of you saw those cars and some of you may have been bidding on
> them too. The pictures, although, small, show the cars with no blemishes,
> but it was hard to tell if they were mint. I didn't like the way the
wheels
> on the Mopac looked, so I emailed the seller my questions about them last
> night and he promptly, responded back, that they were mint and he would
> guarantee the sell, since they could of gone for allot of money. Then
about
> a hour later, they disappeared from Ebay. The auction was to end
tomorrow.
> My thought is that they were not mint and he pulled them. I emailed him
> about this and he wrote that he found a buyer for them. Okay, maybe he
did,
> but I feel, since bidders will get negative feedback and an investigation
> from Ebay for retracting any bids, I feel sellers, should have the same
> treatment too. Although, he said he can end the auction, I did check out
> "ending a auction" on Ebay and it said he needed to provide a good
> explanation for ending the auction. I feel that is not right. I feel he
is
> not an honorable person. Just my opinion. Some of you may had a bid on
> these two cars and didn't know what happen or did he contact you to tell
> you? I was able to track him down since I had his email address and I
still
> have his "made up name". I don't know if I should give it out and if he
is
> on this site. I doubt it, because he is not a member of TCA, which many
on
> this list are not and that is not a requirement to be on S list.
> >
> > My main problem with this whole thing, is that sellers shouldn't be
allow
> to do the above, without major action by Ebay. Selling any items, while on
> Ebay and the auction is still in progress, is a terrible way to do
business.
> >
> > Just my opinion that will past in time, just very disappointed that the
> auction was withdrawn like this,
> >
> > Mike Marmer
> > Germantown, MD
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17579 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: lightning
Still have not found a source for creating lightning flashes. I can duplicate
the sound, but not the light. Any suggestions? I've seen it somewhere but
can't remember where. Ed
Group: S-Trains Message: 17580 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: lightning
Try this link:

http://www.hauntedillinois.com/lightningflash.html


Carl

-----Original Message-----
From: marpack57@... [mailto:marpack57@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:46 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] lightning


Still have not found a source for creating lightning flashes. I can
duplicate
the sound, but not the light. Any suggestions? I've seen it somewhere but
can't remember where. Ed

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17581 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: Rock Island, dynamic brakes and Geeps
Mike Vana said:
>I complained about their GP7/GP9 thing a couple months ago.
>Perhaps somebody from Lionel reads this list, or others have
>contacted them about their inaccuracy. I know - "they are only
>toys", but it's time to dispel that Lionel myth.

Your point here is an encouraging one. Perhaps there is hope with big L.
Perchance they are indeed at the crossroads we discussed some weeks ago when
these items were first announced. Mayhaps they shall become a real player
in the S arena.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17582 From: Thomas Stoltz Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: SHS
Train Gang,

Ordered a beer reefer from SHS today, nothing special. Asked to see if they had one that was listed as out of stock--didn't have it, oh well.

A couple of hours later Robin called and told me she had called around and found one at a local shop, Chick's. I called and bagged it!! Talk about service!!!

That was really going above and beyond in the service of S. I guess that's why they call it S Helper.

Thanks Robin!! You are GREAT!!

Tom


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17583 From: Fire Wood Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: John Allen trackplan/ B17?
Hi people,
One for the B-17 guys;
http://members.aol.com/aemaco/products.htm
A model B-17, radiocontrol, 124" wingspan....not quite
1:64, more like 1:10. Speaking of 17's.....

In Kalmbach's "101 Track Plans", plan #17 is John
Allen's original Gorre & Daphetid, at somewhere around
3 1/2 by 7 1/2 feet in HO.
My warped mind was thinking of a 5' x 10' in S scale,
since the plan is one of my favorites. If anyone has
the book handy, I'd appreciate an eyeball opinion on
the track layout with a view to building with tinplate
sectional track. (Ignoring the turntable area and the
branchline for the moment)I suspect flextrack is the
answer, but I'm keeping an open mind.
I did a stretched 2' x 9' version once in N scale, and
really liked it, simple as it was.
Could this be a "Flyer" G & D on a ping-pong table?
Only time will tell...
Regards,
Dave Walker.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17584 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Domes
Hay gang, we complain that "L" puts out a dome car in NYC. How about what they have for the zero gauge people, a set of Superliners, in NYC markings to go with a "Lightning Stripe" SD-80

Oh, the write up for the 772 Water Tower lists "Durable base, tank, and ladder. So, we'll have to see if it comes with the ladder.



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17585 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: E-Bay Blues
Hey Mike, remember those pills the doctor gave you?
Time to take one! :o)

E-Bay produces more than it's share of pond scum. You, on the other hand,
you, babe . . . you gotta calm down. No harm, no foul. You still have all
your money.
Just say "Thank you, God," and move on.

Glad to hear your early warning system is working so well!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17586 From: David Dewey Date: 2/20/2002
Subject: Re: AM models releases
Howard mentioned the layout running done at the shows. Both the AM and SHS
stuff gets run almost non-stop all day long! Both pull a full set of cars.
The sound effects wow 'em! Although hard to hear in a big hall like that.
The SHS control box is neat, as you can push a button and have the train
glide to a stop, with all lights still on. Then you can push another button,
the brakes release (audibly) and the train glides back up to speed. Ya never
touch the throttle!
The AM whistle is different from the SHS unit, so they are recognizable when
blown together. The AM steamer whistle is really sweet--almost as good as an
AF Billboard unit! (yes, I am prejudiced!).
As for pulling, the Es were running around all day long when I noticed one
traction tire missing. Didn't seem to effect performance one bit.
One morning I was in a hurry and forgot to connect the MU cables to the FB
unit. Noticed the engine seemed to take more throttle than previously, but
ran fine. Fortunately discovered my mistake after a few minutes and
corrected it. So they can pull "frozen" wheels without hesitating!
Now, can't end this without mentioning that the AF steamer ran all day
too, doing switching without complaining.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17587 From: jahoozdumm Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: SHS
Tom wrote:

>Ordered a beer reefer from SHS today, nothing special. Asked to see
>if they had one that was listed as out of stock--didn't have it, oh
>well.

>A couple of hours later Robin called and told me she had called
>around and found one at a local shop, Chick's. I called and bagged
>it!! Talk about service!!!


Don and Robin really do take the term "customer service" seriously.

Back in the days when SHS was offering the AM GP35, I took delivery
of an AC version of same. Upon removing the shell, I was irked to
find that the "big flat can" motor touted by AM in all their GP35 ads
was missing. In its place was a motor smaller than the one in my
wife's RS3. It didn't seem right that a GP35 should have a smaller
motor than an RS3, so I got on the phone to AM. "What happened to my
big motor?" "Oh, we couldn't fit it into the body with the
electronics..." "That wasn't mentioned in any of the ads!" Since I
bought it from SHS, I called Don T, and he gave me the whole
story. "There's not enough height under the brake blister to make
room for the e-unit AND the big motor, so only the DC units got big
motors." I said, "Well, if it weren't for all that double-stick TAPE
it might all fit..." and we talked some more. Don seems to enjoy
talking. Then Don said "Chuck, I'll do whatever you want, what can I
do?" I sent the loco back to SHS sans body, and Don sent it to AM
telling them what I wanted done: "Mount a big motor and the AC
electronics on the chassis, send it back to the customer who will
take it from there." They did, and I did. With help from Don, I have
what may be the only AM AC GP35 with the big motor.

Now, I'm sure that AM would have taken care of my complaint too. But
it was Don who ASKED ME what I wanted. I didn't have to "assert"
myself. They really want to make you happy.

If we could just get them to make a modern diesel, preferably GE...


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17588 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay Blues
Hi Chris,

No pills here. O:)

All is well and it is done with. Just another learning experience in the
life of buying hobby related things.

Why, just last night, I won two milk bottles from Maine for a whopping
$17.25, including shipping! LOL!!!

Thanks Chris,

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
To: "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@...>
Cc: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 12:27 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] E-Bay Blues


> Hey Mike, remember those pills the doctor gave you?
> Time to take one! :o)
>
> E-Bay produces more than it's share of pond scum. You, on the other hand,
> you, babe . . . you gotta calm down. No harm, no foul. You still have
all
> your money.
> Just say "Thank you, God," and move on.
>
> Glad to hear your early warning system is working so well!
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17589 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: SHS
I remember getting a 4 page catalog from SHS in the mail and no charge for
anything, especially for postage. Just like many businesses starting out,
expenses are high and one needs to cover cost.

I picked up a 2001 catalog at a Shoppe in Frederick, MD last year and my,
how big that catalog is now. Again, no charge for the catalog. I got some
Brookside Dairy SHS cars from Doug Peck and the quality and detail of those
cars is wonderful.

I have looked at the SHS website and saw some really great road names and
pictures and I am waiting for the new batch of Reefers to come out in April
and I will order some of those, along with some box cars.

So, maybe, instead of OLD flyer on Ebay, I should start buying SHS engines
and cars.

It seems that SHS understands what customer service is all about, is one
reason they have grown.

Now, I just need to start that layout!

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD
----- Original Message -----
From: "jahoozdumm" <eighthmile@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 3:43 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: SHS


> Tom wrote:
>
> >Ordered a beer reefer from SHS today, nothing special. Asked to see
> >if they had one that was listed as out of stock--didn't have it, oh
> >well.
>
> >A couple of hours later Robin called and told me she had called
> >around and found one at a local shop, Chick's. I called and bagged
> >it!! Talk about service!!!
>
>
> Don and Robin really do take the term "customer service" seriously.
>
> Back in the days when SHS was offering the AM GP35, I took delivery
> of an AC version of same. Upon removing the shell, I was irked to
> find that the "big flat can" motor touted by AM in all their GP35 ads
> was missing. In its place was a motor smaller than the one in my
> wife's RS3. It didn't seem right that a GP35 should have a smaller
> motor than an RS3, so I got on the phone to AM. "What happened to my
> big motor?" "Oh, we couldn't fit it into the body with the
> electronics..." "That wasn't mentioned in any of the ads!" Since I
> bought it from SHS, I called Don T, and he gave me the whole
> story. "There's not enough height under the brake blister to make
> room for the e-unit AND the big motor, so only the DC units got big
> motors." I said, "Well, if it weren't for all that double-stick TAPE
> it might all fit..." and we talked some more. Don seems to enjoy
> talking. Then Don said "Chuck, I'll do whatever you want, what can I
> do?" I sent the loco back to SHS sans body, and Don sent it to AM
> telling them what I wanted done: "Mount a big motor and the AC
> electronics on the chassis, send it back to the customer who will
> take it from there." They did, and I did. With help from Don, I have
> what may be the only AM AC GP35 with the big motor.
>
> Now, I'm sure that AM would have taken care of my complaint too. But
> it was Don who ASKED ME what I wanted. I didn't have to "assert"
> myself. They really want to make you happy.
>
> If we could just get them to make a modern diesel, preferably GE...
>
>
> Chuck F.
>
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17590 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Weekend Show
Gentlemen,
We will be in attendance at the GATS show in Columbus Ohio this weekend. The show is at the Ohio State Fairgrounds.
Stop by and say hello.

The new Crossing gate Shanty should be there. We had a package lost last week that had the critical parts needed to finish the thing so it did make the show at Valley Forge. A replacement order is on its way. This is a Victorian style shanty with coal bin and comes completely assembled.

Tom Doherty
Pennsylvania Heritage Models, Ltd.
http://www.paheritagemodels.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17591 From: srgriggs Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: Rock Island, dynamic brakes and Geeps
--- In S-Trains@y..., Chris Zizzo <busyboy@o...> wrote:
> Mike Vana said:
> >I complained about their GP7/GP9 thing a couple months ago.
> >Perhaps somebody from Lionel reads this list, or others have
> >contacted them about their inaccuracy. I know - "they are only
> >toys", but it's time to dispel that Lionel myth.
>
> Your point here is an encouraging one. Perhaps there is hope with
big L.
> Perchance they are indeed at the crossroads we discussed some weeks
ago when
> these items were first announced. Mayhaps they shall become a real
player
> in the S arena.
>
> Chris Zizzo

That's a nice thought, but they probably just realized that they were
putting needless cost in the model in the form of the dynamic brake
blister. On a product that probably costs less than $75 to
manufacture, a $.25 save on something like this is a big deal.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17592 From: Mark Preman Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: ebay Angst
All this heavy breathing about all the bad things
about ebay when there are merchants who are sponsors
and members of this list that offer quality products,
excellent service, fair prices, and money back
quarranties. Makes one wonder. Mark
http://www.americanflyertrains.com

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17593 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: ebay Angst
Hi Mark,

I have had bad purchases also at local shows and at York, and in other
hobbies, like coins, etc.

I guess buying collectables is a learning process and the more knowledge and
understanding of the hobby one has, the better things will be for individual
buyers. I have learn to completely look at everything in the train world
and test them, check the wheel trucks, run engines, etc. before buying. I
will become a more prudent buyer in time.

I will say Ebay is new to me and I am sure there are very good sellers of
product on Ebay and off Ebay, like sellers like you. I have had a good
experience with a seller in NY for Flyer who sells all the time. I guess
stick with the people you see all the time, whether Ebay or at shows and ask
others about unknown sellers. You are still selling flyer because you sell
honest product, fair pricing and know what customer service is all about and
that brings you repeat business. I feel like I am back at of U of MD taking
marketing classes again!

I do buy mint Flyer and the chance at those two cars was something I haven't
seen, since I have been buying Flyer since 1992. I guess it hurt to see
them available and then to see them vanish so quickly after you questioned
the seller. Plus the 936 PA was from my first set in 1958 and it meant allot
to me, that car. But I am over it and things will go on. Looking forward
to seeing Gary Clark at York who sells mint items. Maybe he has a mint 936.
Again, I do not collect AF for investment, but because I enjoy the hobby and
I am learning new things everyday, especially from you all. My technical
skill is non-existent, but hopefully I will learn more about cleaning and
fixing things as I read the groups email. Why this week, I was able to get
a cardboard tube whistle generator working after reading Tom Barker's
Greenberg maintenance book. Did a nice cut at the bottom of the tube with
the dremel and got it working and reglued, spotlessly! Hey, now I can sell
it on Ebay as mint!! Just teasing about the mint part!!

Thanks for all the responses and past help from everyone,

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Preman" <amerflyer@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:36 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] ebay Angst


> All this heavy breathing about all the bad things
> about ebay when there are merchants who are sponsors
> and members of this list that offer quality products,
> excellent service, fair prices, and money back
> quarranties. Makes one wonder. Mark
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>
> =====
> Mark B. Preman
> AmericanFlyerTrains.com
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
> http://sports.yahoo.com
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17594 From: ron inscho Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: Domes
HEY if that is what we want I think AMERICAN MODELS could be talked in to
making the SD 60 & Superliner cars in NYC or any other road we want . As the
eng. & cars already exist only new painting & art work need to be done.
----- Original Message -----
From: "JFrederick Roberts" <jfred436@...>
To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 11:08 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Domes


>
> Hay gang, we complain that "L" puts out a dome car in NYC. How about what
they have for the zero gauge people, a set of Superliners, in NYC markings
to go with a "Lightning Stripe" SD-80
>
> Oh, the write up for the 772 Water Tower lists "Durable base, tank, and
ladder. So, we'll have to see if it comes with the ladder.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17595 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: Thanks! /Scherzer bridge
Thanks for the response, Dave.

The lighthouse module project has been in the planning and parts collection
phase since at least 1992. (That is the date on the plan.) Predecessors to
the module plan has caused parts to be collecting parts since about 1980.
If you are interested, I can sent a LOT of text on the lighthouse module
from my log.

As for the challenge of catenary within the bridge: not a problem. Use an
extra-ruggid catenary within. This is easy if you build the catenary on a
jig, as I do. My other suggestions would be to make the bridge top
removable for maintenance or build the catenary and then build the bridge
around it.
I often find myself doing things out of order (relative to the
prototype) because my big hands (12" = 1') can't get in there after it is
built.

Extra ruggid catenary:
Normal catenary has drop hangers that are but joints, top and bottom.
My normal catenary is much more ruggid. I bend the bottom of the drop
hanger 90 degrees and then solder about 1/8 inch to the contact wire. The
top is a but joint to the messenger. Occasionally I have to resolder a but
joint. It is rare to have to fix the bottom hanger.
Extra ruggid catenary has both the bottom and the top of the drop
hanger bent 90 degrees so it is very strong. I do this with the ends of the
strips of overhead I build. Within the bridge I plan to do this with every
hanger. Then I KNOW I will not have to do maintenance later. It looks less
prototypical as it is less prototypical but I don't have a working wire
maintenance crew that small. And besides, you will have to look into the
bridge to see it.

Thorin

-----Original Message-----
From: Fire Wood [mailto:fahrwud@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:06 PM
To: Marty.Thorin
Subject: Re: Thanks! /Scherzer bridge


Hi Marty,
Good luck on the bridge project.
On CP Rail in Thunder Bay, Ontario, is a double-deck
jacknife bridge, (roadway on top deck, rail on
bottom)1917 vintage, which I'll send you a pic of when
I find one....or take one! I have crossed it on foot,
by car, waited for it to open and close, and even
sailed under it, but never rode the rails.....
It crossed my mind when you mentioned catenary. It
would be ideal for a rigid overhead inside the lower
deck. But the construction of such a
beast.....hmmmmm..

Regards,
Dave Walker
--- "Marty.Thorin" <Thorin.Marty@...> wrote:
> Dear Dave:
> I started this chain. There was a company who made
> a Scherzer
> rolling bridge in the early 1970s. I have this
> book. I was hoping to find
> the kit as it would save me the effort of following
> the article you describe
> when building my own.
> Mine will need modifications relative to this one.
> I want a double
> track, through truss version and the one in the
> plans is a single track
> girder version. Also, the SP prototype shown here
> is not equipped for
> overhead and I will be stringing catenary. (Think
> PRR, NH, or Milw.)
> Mine will not open and the rails and overhead will
> be continuous.
>
> Yes, bridge builders are a class by themselves.
>
> Thorin
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:38:56 -0800 (PST)
> From: Fire Wood <fahrwud@...>
> Subject: Thanks! /Scherzer bridge
>
> Hi all,
>
> Thank y'all for the warm welcomes. Lively and
> friendly
> bunch you are!
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Model
> Railroader "Bridges and Structures" book has a
> scratch building article on the Scherzer rolling
> lift
> bridge. (Then again, I believe model railroad
> bridge
> builders are a whole different breed.....) ;0)
> Back to the track planning......looks like I have a
> bridge to build.
> Regards,
> Dave W.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17596 From: David Dewey Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: Thanks! /Scherzer bridge
Thorin,
I don't know how much more difficult it would be, but would you have
fewer "disconnecting" problems with your cantenary if you silver soldered
the joints? This might require a minature torch. . . Hmm. Just a thought.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17597 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: Thanks! /Scherzer bridge
Dear David:
Most of my disconnect problems in my overhead are caused by me.

First, I am cheap. I reuse the wire from old catenary to build new
catenary. So there is corrosion on the wire. I reuse all scraps of
phosphor bronze until it gets to be 1/2 inch or less. So I am often working
with 'less than ideal' wire. (I always use new wire for the contact wire.)
Having normal solder on it is fine. Silver Solder gets in the way.

Second, I am lazy. I don't clean the old wire before I use it.
Please, no lectures on how to make a good joint. I know this and have
taught this to others. I'm just in too much of a hurry to following my own
advice! Most joints are fine. Those that need repairs get the full
treatment -- clean the surfaces, tin the area, reflow the joint, etc.

Third, I am clumsy. I whack the overhead with my hands, box cars, etc.
Although I use springs to absorb the impact, they can take only so much.

Fourth, I have a cat with an itchy head. She uses the poles and overhead
while purring like mad. (This is actually marking. Your cat is not rubbing
you -- he / she is marking you as HIS / HERS. And who really owns whom?)

My father had one of these torches. It was a royal pain-in-the-rear in an
enclosed space -- like a 24 * 24 room under the garage. And the tiny gas
bottles had to be used in one shot and then replaced. We never got a
big-tank rig. My iron works find for my present work.

Thorin

-----Original Message-----
From: David Dewey [mailto:djdewey@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 9:39 AM
To: 'Fire Wood'; Marty.Thorin
Cc: 'S-Trains (E-mail)
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] RE: Thanks! /Scherzer bridge


Thorin,
I don't know how much more difficult it would be, but would you have
fewer "disconnecting" problems with your cantenary if you silver soldered
the joints? This might require a minature torch. . . Hmm. Just a thought.
S'
David D.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17598 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: Thanks! /Scherzer bridge
That's it. Blame it on the cat! Cheap shot. LOL!!

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty.Thorin" <Thorin.Marty@...>
To: "'David Dewey'" <djdewey@...>
Cc: "'S-Trains (E-mail)" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 11:05 AM
Subject: RE: [S-Trains] RE: Thanks! /Scherzer bridge


> Dear David:
> Most of my disconnect problems in my overhead are caused by me.
>
> First, I am cheap. I reuse the wire from old catenary to build new
> catenary. So there is corrosion on the wire. I reuse all scraps of
> phosphor bronze until it gets to be 1/2 inch or less. So I am often
working
> with 'less than ideal' wire. (I always use new wire for the contact
wire.)
> Having normal solder on it is fine. Silver Solder gets in the way.
>
> Second, I am lazy. I don't clean the old wire before I use it.
> Please, no lectures on how to make a good joint. I know this and have
> taught this to others. I'm just in too much of a hurry to following my
own
> advice! Most joints are fine. Those that need repairs get the full
> treatment -- clean the surfaces, tin the area, reflow the joint, etc.
>
> Third, I am clumsy. I whack the overhead with my hands, box cars, etc.
> Although I use springs to absorb the impact, they can take only so much.
>
> Fourth, I have a cat with an itchy head. She uses the poles and overhead
> while purring like mad. (This is actually marking. Your cat is not
rubbing
> you -- he / she is marking you as HIS / HERS. And who really owns whom?)
>
> My father had one of these torches. It was a royal pain-in-the-rear in an
> enclosed space -- like a 24 * 24 room under the garage. And the tiny gas
> bottles had to be used in one shot and then replaced. We never got a
> big-tank rig. My iron works find for my present work.
>
> Thorin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Dewey [mailto:djdewey@...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 9:39 AM
> To: 'Fire Wood'; Marty.Thorin
> Cc: 'S-Trains (E-mail)
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] RE: Thanks! /Scherzer bridge
>
>
> Thorin,
> I don't know how much more difficult it would be, but would you have
> fewer "disconnecting" problems with your cantenary if you silver soldered
> the joints? This might require a minature torch. . . Hmm. Just a thought.
> S'
> David D.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17599 From: hcopter52 Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Pictures in the files
Thanks to everyone involved in adding the pictures found in this
club. I never knew that there actually was a Royal Blue loco at one
time! I can guarantee that I will never look at mine in the same way
again(or treat it the same either), since I viewed the pictures
herein. Marvelous, wonderfull. Please keep them comming as i look
every day so as not to miss anything. Special thanks to Mr.York for
his excellent site. John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17600 From: Horn, David Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: isn't that interesting....factory NOS, huh?
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1707804205
I would have figured the only NOS with bushings would have been a
replacement part for the pre-pulmor PA's. Didn't think bushings were on any
with pulmor. Wonder if has field bays to accommodate the smaller or large
motor? Hmmmmm.
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17601 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Columbus Ohio GATS
Hi all,
It's that time again. GATS in Columbus Ohio. I will be there with the
recently expanded(today) Portable Christmas layout. There will also be 2
s-gauge clubs there with each clubs layout. Plenty of s-gauge this weekend.
Stop by and say hello. Tom, I will stop by the PA Heritage booth and say hi
to you.

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17602 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: Domes
>a set of Superliners, in NYC markings to go with a "Lightning Stripe" SD-80

These are a fantasy, "what if?" set. I think they're gorgeous. Of course,
if you limit your railroad to only those trains which actually ran in those
paint schemes in those years, well then, it's not art, is it?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17603 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: 314AW tender on ebay 1705953699
Here is an AW tender.The guy also has a smoker listed seperately.


Keith


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Group: S-Trains Message: 17604 From: gino restivo Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: re; Factory NOS ,
3 questions for this item ....

what size wood screws are used to mount
the trk frame ... ?

what is the casting number on the reverse side ?

why is it discolored from grease around the
axle gear area ?

good catch , dave


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17605 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: AM models releases
Yeah you're right about the steamer doing a fine job on the layout David, but
you're wrong about no complaining. After several hours of pushing through the
throngs of kids and parents to reload the barrels, logs, and sawmill accessories,
my wife had a few things to say about parents bringing kids with colds and people
not wanting to let her through thinking she was trying to push her way to the
front. Wifes have a funny way of seeing trains different than us sometimes.
It would be nice to someday have a big enough layout to be in the middle.

This would be a good time to mention that we are looking for people interested
in putting together an S guage group for doing moduls and shows in the Sacramento
and Roseville area.
Contact me off list for information.
Howard

>stuff gets run almost non-stop all day long! Both pull a full set of cars.

>The sound effects wow 'em! Although hard to hear in a big hall like that.
_______________________________________________________________________
Free Domain Name Registration with Web Hosting at Lanset Communications.
56k Dialup, Web Design, and Colocation at http://www.lanset.net
Group: S-Trains Message: 17606 From: rodgers_carl Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
I did read your original post.

Not to put too fine a point on this, because I think what he may have
done is wrong, but what you are doing is just as wrong.

You don't know this person, you've never had any dealings with him,
but you are ready to condem him and spread rumors and dispersions on
his character.

This is the way people get bad reputations, they may not deserve.

It is a little like condemming the book by its cover, maybe you
should read it first. Then if you don't like it, it's after all only
your opinion and not a general fact.



--- In S-Trains@y..., "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@m...> wrote:
> Carl,
>
> I guess you didn't read my post from this morning about the two
MINT items
> he had for bid and how they mysteriously were sold off Ebay, which
is a
> major seller violation. I think these two items were not MINT, I
caught him
> and he took them off for bid. The wheels on the MoPac (picture is
gone now,
> you could see the film build up) has a look of use to them on both
trucks.
> He didn't respond back to me last night when I emailed him about
the items
> being gone. Only, when I email him, to ask him why I should not
file a
> complaint, he wrote back saying he sold them as a group, not on
Ebay, and it
> is okay to cancel seller's auction, which is NOT okay, according to
Ebay,
> unless you have a good reason. This is as bad as a bidder re-
tracking a
> bid.
>
> You think this is okay? Forget the part about whether the cars
where mint
> of not, it is the slimy way he ended his auction, not the way to do
business
> on Ebay.
>
> You can check out members status by clicking "search members".
>
> I am so happy I didn't send him any money, I don't trust this
person.
>
> Mike Marmer
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rodgers_carl" <rodgers_carl@h...>
> To: <S-Trains@y...>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:45 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] Re: 13irishfan13
>
>
> > What is your warning based on? Did you have a dealing with him
that
> > went bad? His feedback is all positive.
> >
> > --- In S-Trains@y..., "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@m...> wrote:
> > > AVOID BIDDING ANYTHING FROM 13IRISHFAN13! BUYER BEWARE!
> > >
> > > HE IS BAD LUCK LIKE THE NUMBER 13 AND NOTRE DAME IS BETTER OFF
> > WITHOUT HIM!
> > >
> > > MIKE MARMER WHO IS HAPPY HIS AUCTION FELL THROUGH AND SO IS HIS
> > CHECK BOOK!
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
Group: S-Trains Message: 17607 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
Hi Carl,
After reading what Mike had to say the real reason E-BAY
suspended the Guy was not for his description but because he stopped the
auction to sell to a person that offered him more$ A clear violation of their
rules. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17608 From: aglorince Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: Weekend Show
don't forget there is also a greenberg show in pittsburgh
(Monroeville) this weekend. hours sat and sun 10 am to 4 pm. i'll
have american models there.

andy lorince
Group: S-Trains Message: 17609 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
Carl,

When an auction is to end on Ebay for a legitimate reasons, the seller is to
notified all bidders, which I was not at the time and I don't know if he did
notify the other bidders involved, haven't heard from any of them, but the
items are to remain available for view, saying that the auction has ended
with the explanation on why the auction had ended. He did not. There was a
L&N Box car that had a legitimate auction ending and it is still available
to view with explanation. I know this person is a fine character on this
site and I don't mean to bring him into to this, but this is a perfect
example of honesty in ending an auction. That is fine. Losing on a bid is
fine too.

Selling items listed on Ebay, off of Ebay, is not allowed and is wrong.
Then the fees to Ebay are not paid and Ebay is a business and needs profit
margins to continue to pay their expenses in running that website.

Sorry, this guy is bad and was suspended from Ebay for doing illegal things
on this site.

Too many bad people hurt the growth of a hobby with bad dealings and
mis-doings, whether you are collecting trains, coins, or anything else in
life. They turn others off of staying with the activity. I didn't do
anything to ruin his character, he did. He such of not of been suspended
for doing bad things in the past.

I have no problems paying more for a great collectable, should that be the
case, that I appreciate the items I buy for what they are, and I don't want
to be treated the way he did to me, when he knew I was going to bid on those
things and he did an illegal thing, didn't follow the rules, after he got my
hopes up very high, for a chance on bidding for a car, I truly desired for
personal reasons, I explained earlier. I was not the bad guy here. I see
warnings from others on this site about bad dealing on Ebay and I hope we
can continue to help each other in letting others know when something has
gone wrong. Had it been a train show and I saw them and was going to go
back later and they were sold, then, that is my mis-gamble and lost. Ebay
has an end time that is to be followed.

I know Chris Zizzo said enough, but I will respond to anyone who writes
about this. Again, I am done with it. It over.

Thanks for your opinion Carl, my opinion of him doesn't change.

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "rodgers_carl" <rodgers_carl@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 4:21 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: 13irishfan13


> I did read your original post.
>
> Not to put too fine a point on this, because I think what he may have
> done is wrong, but what you are doing is just as wrong.
>
> You don't know this person, you've never had any dealings with him,
> but you are ready to condem him and spread rumors and dispersions on
> his character.
>
> This is the way people get bad reputations, they may not deserve.
>
> It is a little like condemming the book by its cover, maybe you
> should read it first. Then if you don't like it, it's after all only
> your opinion and not a general fact.
>
>
>
> --- In S-Trains@y..., "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@m...> wrote:
> > Carl,
> >
> > I guess you didn't read my post from this morning about the two
> MINT items
> > he had for bid and how they mysteriously were sold off Ebay, which
> is a
> > major seller violation. I think these two items were not MINT, I
> caught him
> > and he took them off for bid. The wheels on the MoPac (picture is
> gone now,
> > you could see the film build up) has a look of use to them on both
> trucks.
> > He didn't respond back to me last night when I emailed him about
> the items
> > being gone. Only, when I email him, to ask him why I should not
> file a
> > complaint, he wrote back saying he sold them as a group, not on
> Ebay, and it
> > is okay to cancel seller's auction, which is NOT okay, according to
> Ebay,
> > unless you have a good reason. This is as bad as a bidder re-
> tracking a
> > bid.
> >
> > You think this is okay? Forget the part about whether the cars
> where mint
> > of not, it is the slimy way he ended his auction, not the way to do
> business
> > on Ebay.
> >
> > You can check out members status by clicking "search members".
> >
> > I am so happy I didn't send him any money, I don't trust this
> person.
> >
> > Mike Marmer
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "rodgers_carl" <rodgers_carl@h...>
> > To: <S-Trains@y...>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:45 PM
> > Subject: [S-Trains] Re: 13irishfan13
> >
> >
> > > What is your warning based on? Did you have a dealing with him
> that
> > > went bad? His feedback is all positive.
> > >
> > > --- In S-Trains@y..., "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@m...> wrote:
> > > > AVOID BIDDING ANYTHING FROM 13IRISHFAN13! BUYER BEWARE!
> > > >
> > > > HE IS BAD LUCK LIKE THE NUMBER 13 AND NOTRE DAME IS BETTER OFF
> > > WITHOUT HIM!
> > > >
> > > > MIKE MARMER WHO IS HAPPY HIS AUCTION FELL THROUGH AND SO IS HIS
> > > CHECK BOOK!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> > >
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17610 From: ron inscho Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: isn't that interesting....factory NOS, huh?
Not only is it not factory n.o.s. it would appear to have the later large
flange size wheels on this side & smaller or worn flanges ? on the other
side.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Horn, David" <david.horn@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 1:22 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] isn't that interesting....factory NOS, huh?


> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1707804205
> I would have figured the only NOS with bushings would have been a
> replacement part for the pre-pulmor PA's. Didn't think bushings were on
any
> with pulmor. Wonder if has field bays to accommodate the smaller or large
> motor? Hmmmmm.
> The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
> the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for
the
> contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed
in
> this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
> views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
> the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
> immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all
copies
> of this message.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17611 From: erielackawanna76 Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: E-units
Since I'm new to American Flyer, can someone explain if the e-unit
reverses the polarity of the field windings, or the motor armature?
I saw a drawing on Paul Yorke's site, but couldn't understand the
description about lower contacts and upper contacts. Anyone?

John
Erie Signal Co.
erielackawanna76@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 17612 From: notcoldenough Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: E-units
The field winding polarity is reversed. Why - the front truck
pickup wheel of the tender is hard wired to one of the armature
terminals, so by default, the field winding has to be reversed via
the E unit.

From an electrical standpoint, it doesn't matter which one is
reversed, just so long as one is reversed relative to the other one.
Flyer choose the field.

John

--- In S-Trains@y..., "erielackawanna76" <erielackawanna76@y...>
wrote:
> Since I'm new to American Flyer, can someone explain if the e-unit
> reverses the polarity of the field windings, or the motor
armature?
> I saw a drawing on Paul Yorke's site, but couldn't understand the
> description about lower contacts and upper contacts. Anyone?
>
> John
> Erie Signal Co.
> erielackawanna76@y...
Group: S-Trains Message: 17613 From: rodgers_carl Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
Please don't misunderstand. I am in no way defending this guy.

My point is, don't go off on someone until and when you have all the
facts. You acted out of emotion. Good people can get a bad reputation
because people are willing to beleive bad things and spread rumors.

Ebay did its' job. That is some proof that the guy broke
their "rules". He didn't do anything "illegal".

I have heard bad things on this board about people I know aren't bad.
And good things about people, I have my doubts about. But never will
I pass along a rumor, or "what happened to somebody else" that they
told me, etc.......

What ever you say, about a person, on this board or in an E-mail, you
should be willing to say to that persons face.

That's all I was trying to say.





--- In S-Trains@y..., "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@m...> wrote:
> Carl,
>
> When an auction is to end on Ebay for a legitimate reasons, the
seller is to
> notified all bidders, which I was not at the time and I don't know
if he did
> notify the other bidders involved, haven't heard from any of them,
but the
> items are to remain available for view, saying that the auction has
ended
> with the explanation on why the auction had ended. He did not.
There was a
> L&N Box car that had a legitimate auction ending and it is still
available
> to view with explanation. I know this person is a fine character
on this
> site and I don't mean to bring him into to this, but this is a
perfect
> example of honesty in ending an auction. That is fine. Losing on
a bid is
> fine too.
>
> Selling items listed on Ebay, off of Ebay, is not allowed and is
wrong.
> Then the fees to Ebay are not paid and Ebay is a business and needs
profit
> margins to continue to pay their expenses in running that website.
>
> Sorry, this guy is bad and was suspended from Ebay for doing
illegal things
> on this site.
>
> Too many bad people hurt the growth of a hobby with bad dealings and
> mis-doings, whether you are collecting trains, coins, or anything
else in
> life. They turn others off of staying with the activity. I didn't do
> anything to ruin his character, he did. He such of not of been
suspended
> for doing bad things in the past.
>
> I have no problems paying more for a great collectable, should that
be the
> case, that I appreciate the items I buy for what they are, and I
don't want
> to be treated the way he did to me, when he knew I was going to bid
on those
> things and he did an illegal thing, didn't follow the rules, after
he got my
> hopes up very high, for a chance on bidding for a car, I truly
desired for
> personal reasons, I explained earlier. I was not the bad guy
here. I see
> warnings from others on this site about bad dealing on Ebay and I
hope we
> can continue to help each other in letting others know when
something has
> gone wrong. Had it been a train show and I saw them and was going
to go
> back later and they were sold, then, that is my mis-gamble and
lost. Ebay
> has an end time that is to be followed.
>
> I know Chris Zizzo said enough, but I will respond to anyone who
writes
> about this. Again, I am done with it. It over.
>
> Thanks for your opinion Carl, my opinion of him doesn't change.
>
> Mike
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rodgers_carl" <rodgers_carl@h...>
> To: <S-Trains@y...>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 4:21 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] Re: 13irishfan13
>
>
> > I did read your original post.
> >
> > Not to put too fine a point on this, because I think what he may
have
> > done is wrong, but what you are doing is just as wrong.
> >
> > You don't know this person, you've never had any dealings with
him,
> > but you are ready to condem him and spread rumors and dispersions
on
> > his character.
> >
> > This is the way people get bad reputations, they may not deserve.
> >
> > It is a little like condemming the book by its cover, maybe you
> > should read it first. Then if you don't like it, it's after all
only
> > your opinion and not a general fact.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In S-Trains@y..., "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@m...> wrote:
> > > Carl,
> > >
> > > I guess you didn't read my post from this morning about the two
> > MINT items
> > > he had for bid and how they mysteriously were sold off Ebay,
which
> > is a
> > > major seller violation. I think these two items were not MINT,
I
> > caught him
> > > and he took them off for bid. The wheels on the MoPac (picture
is
> > gone now,
> > > you could see the film build up) has a look of use to them on
both
> > trucks.
> > > He didn't respond back to me last night when I emailed him about
> > the items
> > > being gone. Only, when I email him, to ask him why I should not
> > file a
> > > complaint, he wrote back saying he sold them as a group, not on
> > Ebay, and it
> > > is okay to cancel seller's auction, which is NOT okay,
according to
> > Ebay,
> > > unless you have a good reason. This is as bad as a bidder re-
> > tracking a
> > > bid.
> > >
> > > You think this is okay? Forget the part about whether the cars
> > where mint
> > > of not, it is the slimy way he ended his auction, not the way
to do
> > business
> > > on Ebay.
> > >
> > > You can check out members status by clicking "search members".
> > >
> > > I am so happy I didn't send him any money, I don't trust this
> > person.
> > >
> > > Mike Marmer
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "rodgers_carl" <rodgers_carl@h...>
> > > To: <S-Trains@y...>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:45 PM
> > > Subject: [S-Trains] Re: 13irishfan13
> > >
> > >
> > > > What is your warning based on? Did you have a dealing with him
> > that
> > > > went bad? His feedback is all positive.
> > > >
> > > > --- In S-Trains@y..., "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@m...> wrote:
> > > > > AVOID BIDDING ANYTHING FROM 13IRISHFAN13! BUYER BEWARE!
> > > > >
> > > > > HE IS BAD LUCK LIKE THE NUMBER 13 AND NOTRE DAME IS BETTER
OFF
> > > > WITHOUT HIM!
> > > > >
> > > > > MIKE MARMER WHO IS HAPPY HIS AUCTION FELL THROUGH AND SO IS
HIS
> > > > CHECK BOOK!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> > > >
> > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > > s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
Group: S-Trains Message: 17614 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: OK, I'll go along with the fantasy idea
>These are a fantasy, "what if?" set. I think they're gorgeous. Of course, if you limit your railroad to only those trains which actually ran in those paint schemes in those years, well then, it's not art, is it?

Chris Zizzo<


Then, why complain about the dome car in the "S" set?

jfred



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17615 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: E-units
John,

Here is a schematic of a typical AF E-unit.

http://list.wsbt.com/af/afeunit.htm


Carl

-----Original Message-----
From: erielackawanna76 [mailto:erielackawanna76@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 10:09 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] E-units


Since I'm new to American Flyer, can someone explain if the e-unit
reverses the polarity of the field windings, or the motor armature?
I saw a drawing on Paul Yorke's site, but couldn't understand the
description about lower contacts and upper contacts. Anyone?

John
Erie Signal Co.
erielackawanna76@...


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17616 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
Carl,

I understand your point, but I did give a very calm explanation of the
situation in my first email.

When I discovered he was banned from Ebay, I basically said "don't buy from
him" because of what happen to me and what else did he do to get banned from
Ebay. I hoped I could help someone else to avoid this person. If he is
good, is there someone who actually purchase things from him on this list
and can tell me he is really good. I will listen.

He did not reply to me about the end of sale, when I emailed him right away.
Only until I asked him why I shouldn't file a complaint and he said he did
nothing wrong. He did. He just sounds bad all around to me. And yes, I am
willing to tell him in person and I felt I had all the facts about him I
needed. I don't do gossip and I hope everyone else has their facts right
when reporting something like this.

Please contact me off the site, if you want to further discuss this. I
think the group is sick of it by now.

Thanks for the message in response,

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "rodgers_carl" <rodgers_carl@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 10:57 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: 13irishfan13


> Please don't misunderstand. I am in no way defending this guy.
>
> My point is, don't go off on someone until and when you have all the
> facts. You acted out of emotion. Good people can get a bad reputation
> because people are willing to beleive bad things and spread rumors.
>
> Ebay did its' job. That is some proof that the guy broke
> their "rules". He didn't do anything "illegal".
>
> I have heard bad things on this board about people I know aren't bad.
> And good things about people, I have my doubts about. But never will
> I pass along a rumor, or "what happened to somebody else" that they
> told me, etc.......
>
> What ever you say, about a person, on this board or in an E-mail, you
> should be willing to say to that persons face.
>
> That's all I was trying to say.
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In S-Trains@y..., "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@m...> wrote:
> > Carl,
> >
> > When an auction is to end on Ebay for a legitimate reasons, the
> seller is to
> > notified all bidders, which I was not at the time and I don't know
> if he did
> > notify the other bidders involved, haven't heard from any of them,
> but the
> > items are to remain available for view, saying that the auction has
> ended
> > with the explanation on why the auction had ended. He did not.
> There was a
> > L&N Box car that had a legitimate auction ending and it is still
> available
> > to view with explanation. I know this person is a fine character
> on this
> > site and I don't mean to bring him into to this, but this is a
> perfect
> > example of honesty in ending an auction. That is fine. Losing on
> a bid is
> > fine too.
> >
> > Selling items listed on Ebay, off of Ebay, is not allowed and is
> wrong.
> > Then the fees to Ebay are not paid and Ebay is a business and needs
> profit
> > margins to continue to pay their expenses in running that website.
> >
> > Sorry, this guy is bad and was suspended from Ebay for doing
> illegal things
> > on this site.
> >
> > Too many bad people hurt the growth of a hobby with bad dealings and
> > mis-doings, whether you are collecting trains, coins, or anything
> else in
> > life. They turn others off of staying with the activity. I didn't do
> > anything to ruin his character, he did. He such of not of been
> suspended
> > for doing bad things in the past.
> >
> > I have no problems paying more for a great collectable, should that
> be the
> > case, that I appreciate the items I buy for what they are, and I
> don't want
> > to be treated the way he did to me, when he knew I was going to bid
> on those
> > things and he did an illegal thing, didn't follow the rules, after
> he got my
> > hopes up very high, for a chance on bidding for a car, I truly
> desired for
> > personal reasons, I explained earlier. I was not the bad guy
> here. I see
> > warnings from others on this site about bad dealing on Ebay and I
> hope we
> > can continue to help each other in letting others know when
> something has
> > gone wrong. Had it been a train show and I saw them and was going
> to go
> > back later and they were sold, then, that is my mis-gamble and
> lost. Ebay
> > has an end time that is to be followed.
> >
> > I know Chris Zizzo said enough, but I will respond to anyone who
> writes
> > about this. Again, I am done with it. It over.
> >
> > Thanks for your opinion Carl, my opinion of him doesn't change.
> >
> > Mike
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "rodgers_carl" <rodgers_carl@h...>
> > To: <S-Trains@y...>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 4:21 PM
> > Subject: [S-Trains] Re: 13irishfan13
> >
> >
> > > I did read your original post.
> > >
> > > Not to put too fine a point on this, because I think what he may
> have
> > > done is wrong, but what you are doing is just as wrong.
> > >
> > > You don't know this person, you've never had any dealings with
> him,
> > > but you are ready to condem him and spread rumors and dispersions
> on
> > > his character.
> > >
> > > This is the way people get bad reputations, they may not deserve.
> > >
> > > It is a little like condemming the book by its cover, maybe you
> > > should read it first. Then if you don't like it, it's after all
> only
> > > your opinion and not a general fact.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In S-Trains@y..., "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@m...> wrote:
> > > > Carl,
> > > >
> > > > I guess you didn't read my post from this morning about the two
> > > MINT items
> > > > he had for bid and how they mysteriously were sold off Ebay,
> which
> > > is a
> > > > major seller violation. I think these two items were not MINT,
> I
> > > caught him
> > > > and he took them off for bid. The wheels on the MoPac (picture
> is
> > > gone now,
> > > > you could see the film build up) has a look of use to them on
> both
> > > trucks.
> > > > He didn't respond back to me last night when I emailed him about
> > > the items
> > > > being gone. Only, when I email him, to ask him why I should not
> > > file a
> > > > complaint, he wrote back saying he sold them as a group, not on
> > > Ebay, and it
> > > > is okay to cancel seller's auction, which is NOT okay,
> according to
> > > Ebay,
> > > > unless you have a good reason. This is as bad as a bidder re-
> > > tracking a
> > > > bid.
> > > >
> > > > You think this is okay? Forget the part about whether the cars
> > > where mint
> > > > of not, it is the slimy way he ended his auction, not the way
> to do
> > > business
> > > > on Ebay.
> > > >
> > > > You can check out members status by clicking "search members".
> > > >
> > > > I am so happy I didn't send him any money, I don't trust this
> > > person.
> > > >
> > > > Mike Marmer
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "rodgers_carl" <rodgers_carl@h...>
> > > > To: <S-Trains@y...>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:45 PM
> > > > Subject: [S-Trains] Re: 13irishfan13
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > What is your warning based on? Did you have a dealing with him
> > > that
> > > > > went bad? His feedback is all positive.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In S-Trains@y..., "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@m...> wrote:
> > > > > > AVOID BIDDING ANYTHING FROM 13IRISHFAN13! BUYER BEWARE!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > HE IS BAD LUCK LIKE THE NUMBER 13 AND NOTRE DAME IS BETTER
> OFF
> > > > > WITHOUT HIM!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > MIKE MARMER WHO IS HAPPY HIS AUCTION FELL THROUGH AND SO IS
> HIS
> > > > > CHECK BOOK!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > > > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> > > > >
> > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > > > s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> > >
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17617 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: VIBRATORS
Does anyone know if the vibrators that were used in old car radios will
work for the AF horn tubes? Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17618 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: Rock Island, dynamic brakes and Geeps
srgriggs says:
>That's a nice thought, but they probably just realized that they were
>putting needless cost in the model in the form of the dynamic brake
>blister. On a product that probably costs less than $75 to
>manufacture, a $.25 save on something like this is a big deal.

Not really. That's $250 per 1000 or $1250 for a 5000 unit run. Peanuts.

You know, you guys are really grouchy. I never saw a whole group agree like
this that the glass is half empty. I'm a negative grouch. Just ask my
wife. I've never been no stinkin' Pollyanna, but I am one in this group. I
can't wait for someone to say "it's all a plot of big business to trample
the little guy."

Sheesh, give it a rest. Yeah, we all know that money is the prime motive,
but sometimes it's not all so obvious as how many skidloads per square foot.
Sometimes it's about listening and making what the customer wants and then
selling more of them and then ending up with the money.

I hate to break this to you boys, but sometimes, it IS a win-win situation,
like it or not.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17619 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/21/2002
Subject: Re: VIBRATORS
Mike: I have talked with a guy who claimed he used them successfully.
They can also be used for diesel roar units I believe.

Of course, I've never even seen one.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17620 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: OK, I'll go along with the fantasy idea
>Then, why complain about the dome car in the "S" set?

I didn't!

I discussed it with people who hated it, but I was the guy who said I was
buying the new Flyer, remember? I own C&O domes.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17621 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: 13irishfan13
Mike observes:
>I think the group is sick of it by now.

More than that.

Neither of you guys bothers to clean up the 30 or so pages of old posts that
are tagging along on your impossible to end discussion, so even though I
want to skip your posts, I have to scroll down through a mile of garbage.

Show a little respect for the rest of us and take this thing off list.

Thanx,

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17622 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: E-units
Hi,

E-unit is a Lionel term. The American Flyer term is reverse unit. The reverse unit acts as a DPDT switch and reverses polarity in the armature, while maintaining the polarity in the field. Another way to achieve this is to disconnect the reverse unit (I recommend leaving it in place for future reversal of the process and to maintain proper tender weight) and wire a 4 or 6 amp full wave bridge rectifier into the field. The rectifier always insures '+' from the '+' pole and '-' from the '-' pole no matter what the polarity of the incoming current is. To reverse polarity to the armature, you also need to install a rectifier between the transformer and track, through a DPDT switch. Reversing the polarity of the resulting DC track current reverses polarity to the armature. The field polarity remains constant per above. If all your other locos have perfectly working reverse units, they will probably cycle normally on DC current. This is how I operate my mixed bag of Flyer locos (AC and DC). The advantage is you no longer have to deal with balky reverse units and you get to emphatically control the direction of the locos. Some on this list have suggested the field and/or reverse unit plate will become magnetized over time, others say they will not. Some say the solenoids powering certain action figures, such as a walking brakeman will overheat on DC current. Other accessories such as a vibrating stockyard can be wired from the AC accessory posts of the transformer. The transformers will apparently accept mixed return DC and AC currents through it's base posts. All my 8Bs and my 30B have so far.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: "erielackawanna76" <erielackawanna76@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 10:08 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] E-units


> Since I'm new to American Flyer, can someone explain if the e-unit
> reverses the polarity of the field windings, or the motor armature?
> I saw a drawing on Paul Yorke's site, but couldn't understand the
> description about lower contacts and upper contacts. Anyone?
>
> John
> Erie Signal Co.
> erielackawanna76@...
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17623 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Recent Flyer auction
Hi,

I attended a Flyer auction last night in New Hope, PA. There was a wonderful collection of Flyer locos, rolling stock and accessories, all in excellent condition. Bidding went about 25% (my estimate) below Greenberg prices. For example: $400 for a #336 UP 4-8-4 that lists for $530; and $110 for a #979 bay window caboose that lists for maybe $125. But wouldn't you expect better deals at a public auction? I left without placing a single bid. What I really wanted was boxes of parts and junk to tinker with and rehab at bargain basement auction prices. Nope. If the guys who bid last night were adding to their private collections, they did okay. At least they went home with some pretty nice stuff. If they were buying to resell on eBay or a train meet, good luck. IMHO, I think it's a tough way to make a living with so small a margin. Out of maybe 90 people in the room last night, I figure there was only about a handful of guys under 40. What does that tell us? It tells me that the prices of vintage Flyer will likely crash in ten years or so when the age 50 baby-boomers are done with their toys. With that in mind, I am trying to reconstuct my Flyer layout from rehab parts is parts and sell off my 'good' stuff while prices are high.

The above is just one man's observations. I could be way-wrong.

Regards,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17624 From: af21115 Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: Recent Flyer auction
Would this happen to be the 336 you saw go for $400??

Thats about all its worth with rough paint and missing lettering....

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1708097795
Group: S-Trains Message: 17625 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: Recent Flyer auction
Hi,

I can't say for certain if that was the one. I think the paint stripe was a lot better. If the guy I saw buying up lots of Flyer stuff at last night's auction was 'mikethegeek', then I guess he buys high and sells higher. He earns his money at that rate. I personally wouldn't want the hassle and stress of dealing in quantity on eBay. I think I'll follow this auction, though 'cuz I'm curious what his reserve is. That might tell me what I want to know. The #336 I saw last night went for $400.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: "af21115" <Dave0616@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 11:46 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Recent Flyer auction


> Would this happen to be the 336 you saw go for $400??
>
> Thats about all its worth with rough paint and missing lettering....
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1708097795
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17626 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: S-Video Volume IV
Yep, they will be ready to begin shipping on March 8th.
This one has some absolutely terrific video of the tour layouts from
Steamtown 2001 convention. This has not been seen before. Bill Fraley's is
just one of them. Intermixed with the tour layouts are bit by bit
construction scenes of a highrail layout from bare walls to up and running.
It covers a 20x24 area. I uses some unique construction techniques and
materials. I think you'll find it interesting. This layout will be featured
in other volumes to come as it continues to progress. It is at the point of
one completed outer loop and even has the scratchbuilt 7 stall roundhouse
nearly completed thus far. Since I quit shooting for this volume it has now
had a second loop finished. At the end of this video will be a shameless act
of commercialism on our part in that we show you how we manufacture the Can
Motors that we sell for Flyer replacements and how to install one in a loco.
All your wondering about how ugly/fat/stupid I look will be answered because
they got me and Sam on the lens side of the camera for this part.

Same price as before...$13 Ppd.

If you're interested send the $$ to:

Steve Blackburn
3239 Pepperwood Dr.
Boise, Idaho 83704
Group: S-Trains Message: 17627 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: Vibrators
Hi Steve,
I was just wondering if they would work. Most people don't
remember them. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17628 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Locating person
Hi all:
Anyone have an e-mail or snail address for Mike Strickland? I have to
contact. (or Mike, if you are on this list, please send me an e-mail.)
Tx.
Rance Velapoldi
Group: S-Trains Message: 17629 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: LOCATING PERSON
HI I have already sent Rance my E-Mail Mike S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17630 From: bassflyer Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: cleaning up the text....
Chris Zizzo <busyboy@o...> wrote:


..."clean up the 30 or so pages of old posts that
are tagging along".....

I will have to agree with Chris,...when returning an email to the
list or each other,..Please clean it up by deleting all of the
uneccessory (SP?) text. Sure makes reading faster and more enjoyable!

Thanks!!

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17631 From: Paul Yorke Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Stories of 'How I got Started' from the list
I just put a new page out on S-Trains.com at ..
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/stories/started_index.html
(Please review it and let me know what changes you would like to see.)

Stories of 'How I got started..."
Allen V Eisenhaur
TomSmitty
John Marganski
Euell Johnson
John Rogers
Karl Raab
Roy Inman
Steve Blancard
Steve Blackburn
John Rodgers
F.P. Kopetz
Roy Inman
Chuck F.
David A. Highfield

Ron Inscho

Tom Rolfsmeyer

Bente Velapoldi

Alex in Kennebunk

Joe Messinger

Tim Brown

Mike Vandiver
Group: S-Trains Message: 17632 From: Alex Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: Vibrators
Steve, there were two types of plug-in vibrators used in most tube-type car
radios. One simply chopped the 6-V DC into rough square waves that could be
applied to a step-up transformer (the transformer wouldn't mind that the
wave shape wasn't a perfect sinewave) and then it would be rectified by a
tube into high-voltage DC (a few hundred volts) for the various tubes in the
set.

The other type of vibrator actually used its own contacts to perform the
rectification, thereby saving a vacuum tube in the radio, and possibly
making it cheaper.

Check out http://www.antiqueautomobileradio.com/vibratorsbases.htm for base
diagrams, and http://www.antiqueautomobileradio.com/vibratorsadvantages.htm
for related info.

I don't see why an AF modeler couldn't press one of these old critters into
service, but I personally think it would be easier to simply obtain a
genuine Gilbert plug-in. Even if it didn't work, you'd probably be able to
get it working by repairing it. I'm not sure the radio types have the same
base; maybe they do. Does anyone on the list know for sure?

== Alex in Kennebunk, Maine




-----Original Message-----
From: anormal1@... [mailto:anormal1@...]
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 1:21 PM
To: Boss31@...; s-trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Vibrators


Hi Steve,
I was just wondering if they would work. Most people don't
remember them. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Group: S-Trains Message: 17633 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Vibrators
Hi Alex,
didn't they also come in 8 volt and 12 volt. Maybe Dewey can
shed a little light on the voltages. I remember having a bus that used a 8
volt battery.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17634 From: Alex Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: Vibrators
Maybe so. I only tinkered with two such circuits in my life, and that was 40
years ago! I'm no expert, that's for sure. Also, never heard of an 8-V
vehicular system.

== Alex

-----Original Message-----
From: anormal1@... [mailto:anormal1@...]
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 4:57 PM
To: alexmm@...; s-trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Vibrators


Hi Alex,
didn't they also come in 8 volt and 12 volt. Maybe Dewey can
shed a little light on the voltages. I remember having a bus that used a 8
volt battery.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Group: S-Trains Message: 17635 From: hcopter52 Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: factory N.O.S, Eh?
Just wanted to inform the group of my dealings with the seller of
this item.I live within walking distance of his shop. I brought in a
NYC Hudson for them to get running. After about two months while they
were "waiting for a part" they said it was fixed and i paid for it.
Oh did i pay for it! Got it home and it did NOT run. Of course the
shop had no test track but i was assured that it should run.I took it
to a dealer friend of mine who said that the part they replaced was
NOT there. A linkage rod I think. Anyway, it runs fine now but I
would not frequent their establishment if they were the only flyer
source in the world. You folks can do what you want but forewarned is
forearmed.Thanks for listening,John.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17636 From: Robert Wight Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Actuator
I needed to make a actuator for the pike today and I made one in a way that
might interest some. It took about 30 minutes and five cents worth of parts.
It looks very good on the layout. I started with two wood screws. I use the
black wood screws. Shine up the tops of the wood screws to prepare for
soldering. Then screw them into the area you want your actuator. Put them in
the height you need for the car then a hair lower. Then you strip the sheath
off of a copper wire. I used the same gauge for track power. Then you tin
the wire. I put rosin flux paste on it and it tins very well. now you have a
bendable adjustable bar, but yet very sturdy. Solder on top of the heads of
the screws. Then solder your wire from your button on to the the edge of the
screw or the bar. Either way works and stays hidin. Now you have a simple
actuator that works great. Put a little ballast around it and is barly
noticable.
Has anyone ever built there own mail bag holder? I was wondering if
anyone has made there own? This is my next to do project and any help or
ideas would be appreciated.
Happy Railroading
Bob Wight


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Group: S-Trains Message: 17637 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1338
SUBJECT LIGHTNING:

Ed, the article on lightning might be on page 353, A Bantam Fifty
book "Model Railroading" co written by the LIONEL staff.

Jerry 77-11644
________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17638 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1341
VIBRATORS:
I have used radio vibrators in whistle units and Gilbert vibrators in
radios. I have a circuit that is transistors that replaces the vibrator,
I am experimenting in changing the frequency to give better tone.

Jerry 77-11644
________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17639 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, February 24, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains
Group: S-Trains Message: 17640 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: A.C. Gilbert factory tidbit
I just wanted to pass along part of an email from a man who lives in Connecticut, that I got from another interest group, that I belong to, about Clarinet playing and yes, they have awful discussions of Clarinets for sale on Ebay too! And many of these guys are principle's in major symphonies.

Mike Marmer

Germantown, MD

"So you are into American Flyer. I was always a stickler for detail and the ole 3 rail Lionel never hacked it. So I ran American Flyer until we got married. Then I went HO. Sort of lost interest in the last several years. Revived my clarinet playing and have a small computer consulting firm. So there aren't many hours left in the week.

I remember the old AC Gilbert factory. It was right along I-95. Also, as you went through Bridgeport, you could see some of the buildings they and Plasticville modeled. They are trying to revive interest by starting a museum around New Haven somewhere. Have you seen the Lionel story on Public Television? I actually had one of those early sets handed down in the family. What did I know? Sold it for $25 back in 1959 to get money for college."



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17641 From: Lance McCold Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Steam Depot 44-tonner
Steam Depot sells a 44-tonner. Can anyone comment on the strengths and
weaknesses of the model?

Thanks,

Lance McCold
Group: S-Trains Message: 17642 From: David Dewey Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: Vibrators
OK, Time to chime or butt in.
The bases are identical. Vibrators came in 6 and 12 volt. 8 Volt was a
tractor battery, and used on cars that really needed a starter rebuilt, but
the battery fixed it. The electrical components on a car can usually take
the extra 2 volts.
I'm not really familiar with the internal pieces, I just knew which ones
I needed for my car radios! But, I do believe that the ACG tubes are wired
differently and weighted differently to achieve the cycling frequency that
ACG wanted for their "horn." The ACG ones are not all wired the same either,
there is a difference on one version, maybe Tom J can remind me.
S
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17643 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: Actuator
Hi,

That's a nice idea. I suppose an HO rail or Flyer rail would work as well and give an 'industrial' look. It could be painted and weathered. You'll save us a bundle on track trips!

I imagine a mail bag pickup could be made out of copper tubing and a hook fabricated from a little sheet metal. Your actuator would work with that as well.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Wight" <blueearthbob@...>
To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 6:41 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Actuator


>
> I needed to make a actuator for the pike today and I made one in a way that
> might interest some. It took about 30 minutes and five cents worth of parts.
> It looks very good on the layout. I started with two wood screws. I use the
> black wood screws. Shine up the tops of the wood screws to prepare for
> soldering. Then screw them into the area you want your actuator. Put them in
> the height you need for the car then a hair lower. Then you strip the sheath
> off of a copper wire. I used the same gauge for track power. Then you tin
> the wire. I put rosin flux paste on it and it tins very well. now you have a
> bendable adjustable bar, but yet very sturdy. Solder on top of the heads of
> the screws. Then solder your wire from your button on to the the edge of the
> screw or the bar. Either way works and stays hidin. Now you have a simple
> actuator that works great. Put a little ballast around it and is barly
> noticable.
> Has anyone ever built there own mail bag holder? I was wondering if
> anyone has made there own? This is my next to do project and any help or
> ideas would be appreciated.
> Happy Railroading
> Bob Wight
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17644 From: erielackawanna76 Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Reverse Units
Thanks to all that responded to my question. The diagram helped
immensely. Also, Joe's Train Repair (joestrainrepair@...) is
now carrying my current sensing detector. It was designed with HO
scale DCC trains in mind. It works great with American Flyer, too.

John Schultz
Erie Signal Co.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17645 From: Fire Wood Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Why do I need two wires to the track?
No such thing as a dumb question, eh?
Here's mine......

Your thougts on AC control, folks. How do the new AC
controllers stack up against the vintage stuff, and is
the DC conversion the way to go for basket cases and
rebuilding/bashing locos? ( For when I eventually do
that 4-6-6-4) Can't wait to start tinkering......
Regards,
Dave Walker

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Group: S-Trains Message: 17646 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Re: Actuator
See my mail car actuator on Paul Yorke's web site.

Robert Wight wrote:
>
> I needed to make a actuator for the pike today and I made one in a way that
> might interest some. It took about 30 minutes and five cents worth of parts.
> It looks very good on the layout. I started with two wood screws. I use the
> black wood screws. Shine up the tops of the wood screws to prepare for
> soldering. Then screw them into the area you want your actuator. Put them in
> the height you need for the car then a hair lower. Then you strip the sheath
> off of a copper wire. I used the same gauge for track power. Then you tin
> the wire. I put rosin flux paste on it and it tins very well. now you have a
> bendable adjustable bar, but yet very sturdy. Solder on top of the heads of
> the screws. Then solder your wire from your button on to the the edge of the
> screw or the bar. Either way works and stays hidin. Now you have a simple
> actuator that works great. Put a little ballast around it and is barly
> noticable.
> Has anyone ever built there own mail bag holder? I was wondering if
> anyone has made there own? This is my next to do project and any help or
> ideas would be appreciated.
> Happy Railroading
> Bob Wight
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17647 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: S-Video Vol. IV follow up
Oops, I forgot to include the fact that Vol. III is sold out. But we have had
several requests for volumes I, II, and III, so we will run a few more copies
of each at the end of the Vol. IV run. Just feel free to order any volume
that you may have missed or want.

The support you have all given is really great and I hope that this little
excursion has helped pull all of us "minority scale" folks a little bit
closer together and shortened the gap across the country.

Follow up to the follow up. Just received some video from Maryland that
showcases Baltimore Area American Flyer Club and it's Modular layout along
with a couple of individual layouts of club members with promise of more
members layouts to come.

Looks like we have a jump start on Volume V. Maybe we won't have to travel
this year after all.

Steve & Sam


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17648 From: David Dewey Date: 2/22/2002
Subject: Incredible bidding on a 952G.
What's going on here, $450 for a 952G??!!! Check it out:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1705476753

eBay, the world of wonder!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17649 From: Alex Sibbald Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: ebay #1708285043
Hi guys,
Here is the ebay chuckle of the week. And the first one to pluck $45
down for this stunning item gets free shipping, handling and rust. The
seller's name aptly describes the product. However the wheels do turn
freely! If it only came with a box...just dreaming.
Alex
Group: S-Trains Message: 17650 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Incredible bidding on a 952G.
Hi,

The more I think about it, the happier I am I did not place even one bid at Thursday night's Flyer auction in New Hope, PA. I mentioned that I thought auction prices were running about 25% below Greenberg list. Well, on top of that was a 10% buyers fee plus a 6% PA sales tax! The UP #336 that lists for $530 and sold for $400 really sold for $464. Is that a good bargain? Ha! I'm not slamming the people who ran the auction. It was a clean, honest effort.
If I were out buying Flyer stuff for resale from private collectors, I would offer 50% below Greenburg, adjusted downward for condition and missing box. That would be the margin I would seek for resale profit. I dunno. Maybe this isn't a discussion fit for the S-list 'cuz it strikes too close to home to those who make a living doing this. My hat is off to those people. I'm just one who likes to analyze every facet of a hobby. 'Nuf! I'm off to Allentown!

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
To: "s-trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 2:32 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Incredible bidding on a 952G.


> What's going on here, $450 for a 952G??!!! Check it out:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1705476753
>
> eBay, the world of wonder!
> S'
> David D.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17651 From: af21115 Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: E-Bay Dreamer Of The Week
There have been a lot of good posts about e-bay this week. This is my
contribution.

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1708251937
Group: S-Trains Message: 17652 From: srgriggs Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Incredible bidding on a 952G.
--- In S-Trains@y..., "David Dewey" <djdewey@c...> wrote:
> What's going on here, $450 for a 952G??!!! Check it out:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1705476753
>
> eBay, the world of wonder!
> S'
> David D.

I've always wondered why Lionel doesn't repro these cars. There's
always been a healthy demand for them among Flyer collectors and the
it always seems to outpace the supply (especially compared to the New
Haven or streamlines passenger cars). I can only suspect that the
original Gilbert tooling didn't survive. They'd be strong sellers.

Scott
Group: S-Trains Message: 17653 From: David Dewey Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Incredible bidding on a 952G.
Regarding the Heavyweights,
Where the tooling is, is a good question. Some tooling was lost (at the
ACG auction) because it was in the molding machines when they were sold; but
these hadn't been in production for some time, so I doubt they were in a
machine. There are some theories that the bodies were done outside the
company, so who knows where the molds are now. Considering the demand for
them, I am surprised that new tooling couldn't be done to make them. The AM
ones done a few years ago looked beautiful, but the trucks are a nightmare
from H**l! Plus, they were too lightweight too. I also dislike anything you
can't easily get into to replace light bulbs, etc.
Getting back to the tooling, perhaps because LTI doesn't have an S
steamer, they don't want to do cars without a period locomotive?
Interestingly, from what I've gathered, the heavyweight cars were not a
good seller for ACG after about 1950. Anyone have some documentation on
this?
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17654 From: john4flyer Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: E-Unit Help
I've tried searching the archives and couldn't find the help I need,
although I'm sure it has been disussed alot. I have several engines
with 4 position reverse units that need help. The two common
problems are:

1. The bar does not drop back down unless you tap the top of the
tender.

2. The bar does not get raised up unless you apply alot of voltage.
(This causes the train to run about a foot before cycling into
neutral)

I have a couple on engines that have never been opened up and they
function flawlessly, so I know there is hope. I clean the units with
electrical contact cleaner and nothing appears to be sticking.

Does anyone have a checklist for servicing these reverse units? Any
and all help is greatly appreciated!

Thanks.....John Napierski
Group: S-Trains Message: 17655 From: Scott Brown Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay Angst
I agree. I recently purchased a very nice set of AM UP Budd Cars from Mark Preman. Got the 4 car set plus one extra coach for $240 plus shipping. The set had been on his website all month for $300. and Mark honored his offer that month of a 20% discount for members of this list, which gave me a beautiful set of passenger cars at a terrific price. Shipping costs were reasonable and delivery was in a matter of a couple of days. Thanks Mark.

Scott Brown

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 05:36:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Preman <amerflyer@...>
Subject: ebay Angst

All this heavy breathing about all the bad things
about ebay when there are merchants who are sponsors
and members of this list that offer quality products,
excellent service, fair prices, and money back
quarranties. Makes one wonder. Mark
http://www.americanflyertrains.com

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17656 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: E-Unit Help
The usual cause of sticking bar syndrome is binding in the hinge part of the
bar where the pins go through the holes in the Reverse unit frame. Wear
causes the holes and pin to become rough. Smoothing and polishing the pins
and holes should solve that problem. Also check the hole in the frame that
the ratchet pawl rests in. This can become burred also.

The high voltage pull in of the bar is another sigh of friction some ware.
Either in the ratchet linkage or the finger tension may be go high on the
drum.


Carl

-----Original Message-----
From: john4flyer [mailto:john4flyer@...]
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 12:52 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] E-Unit Help


I've tried searching the archives and couldn't find the help I need,
although I'm sure it has been disussed alot. I have several engines
with 4 position reverse units that need help. The two common
problems are:

1. The bar does not drop back down unless you tap the top of the
tender.

2. The bar does not get raised up unless you apply alot of voltage.
(This causes the train to run about a foot before cycling into
neutral)

I have a couple on engines that have never been opened up and they
function flawlessly, so I know there is hope. I clean the units with
electrical contact cleaner and nothing appears to be sticking.

Does anyone have a checklist for servicing these reverse units? Any
and all help is greatly appreciated!

Thanks.....John Napierski


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17657 From: Robert Wight Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: making a mail bag standard
I dont need any ideas on making a mail bag standard. was able to make one
and it looks scale. operates wonderfully. The cost was probly 3 cents. By
the way. How do you make that cent sign?
Happy Railroading
bob Wight


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17658 From: Neil Trump Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Incredible bidding on a 952G.
This is why MTH and 'L' cherry pick certain items of value to make those
special repros to resale at an affordable price now and make a profit of
course. It wouldn't surprise me to see MTH re-issue heavy weights as a
special passenger set only minus a loco in various roadnames. As you say,
they will sell well, even with the limited original loco roadnames that
Flyer offered.

Neil T.

> I've always wondered why Lionel doesn't repro these cars. There's
> always been a healthy demand for them among Flyer collectors and the
> it always seems to outpace the supply (especially compared to the New
> Haven or streamlines passenger cars). I can only suspect that the
> original Gilbert tooling didn't survive. They'd be strong sellers.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17659 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1341
VIBRATORS:
I have used radio vibrators in whistle units and Gilbert vibrators in
radios. I have a circuit that is transistors that replaces the vibrator,
I am experimenting in changing the frequency to give better tone.

Jerry 77-11644
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17660 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1338
SUBJECT LIGHTNING:

Ed, the article on lightning might be on page 353, A Bantam Fifty
book "Model Railroading" co written by the LIONEL staff.

Jerry 77-11644
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17661 From: Lance McCold Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Steam Depot 44-tonner
Steam Depot's address is 2038 Center St., Ashland, Pennsylvania 17921.

The phone number is 570-875-2361

Like the 44-tonner, he has some things that you do not find in the Scenery
Unlimited catalog. He also has superstructure kits for RS-2 and RS-1,
S-4-S4, and NW-SW locomotives. He has a listing of Ye Olde Huff N Puff
S-scale parts I have not seen listed elsewhere. He also lists some unusual
items from "Altoona Shops."

It is odd that it is so hard to find out about this S-supplier. None of the
S-web sites I could find list information for Steam Depot. I cannot
remember where I found the address. I just received his 77-page catalog a
week ago. It sticks in my mind that I sent him $3-- for it, but that may
not be correct. Are there other S-suppliers hidden out there we should know
about?

Lance McCold
Knoxville, Tennessee


At 07:19 AM 2/23/02, Michael A. Scivoletti wrote:
>I would also like an address for Steam Depot if any one has it. Thanks in
>advance. Michael in Nortwest Jersey
>
>Lance McCold wrote:
>>Steam Depot sells a 44-tonner. Can anyone comment on the strengths and
>>weaknesses of the model?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Lance McCold
>>
>>To see or post Photos visit
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
>>
>>or
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
>>
>>To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...
>>
>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17662 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Incredible bidding on a 952G.
Hi David,

I hear ya! I found a couple sheet metal tenders (from #290s, I think) w/o the reverse units for $10 each at the Allentown Train Meet today. They need repainted. I'll use them for my DC-wired locos, so I didn't need the reverse units anyway. Probably should add a few lead weights to make up the difference.

I am now content with the Flyer stuff I have and will only add to it when it is a BARGAIN. Guess I won't be adding much.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
To: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Incredible bidding on a 952G.


> Tim,
> I sometimes buy stuff, theoretically for resale, but all I ever seem to
> sell is the L stuff and the Marx stuff. I used to think I was paying too
> little for stuff presented to me (as opposed to stuff I found at flea
> markets or train shows), BUT I found out the last two major AF buys I made
> had been offered to others and I offered the most. I can't remember the
> exact amounts, but way under 50% of book. Of course, quantity enters into
> the pic here too. If you are buying a lot of stuff at once, the disount from
> book is much steeper (especially if you are picking up junk along with the
> good stuff.).
> And parts piles are going crazy! Stuff that used to be $5 a box is now $10 a
> piece!
> I can't build up many AF Daylights with that going on!
> S'
> David D.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17663 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: E-Unit Help
Hi,

As far a getting the bar to drop back down, some of us use little squares of masking tape between the bar and the coil. It acts as a buffer and helps release the bar.

If the bar won't raise, you may need to rewind the coil. First, look for any little burrs or anything out of alignment that might impede the movement. Grease every moving part with a dab of lithium or graphite grease. Make sure the fingers aren't worn through - repair with solder or replace if necessary. Make sure they are in proper alignment. That's all I can think of. The rest must be magic.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: "john4flyer" <john4flyer@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 12:51 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] E-Unit Help


> I've tried searching the archives and couldn't find the help I need,
> although I'm sure it has been disussed alot. I have several engines
> with 4 position reverse units that need help. The two common
> problems are:
>
> 1. The bar does not drop back down unless you tap the top of the
> tender.
>
> 2. The bar does not get raised up unless you apply alot of voltage.
> (This causes the train to run about a foot before cycling into
> neutral)
>
> I have a couple on engines that have never been opened up and they
> function flawlessly, so I know there is hope. I clean the units with
> electrical contact cleaner and nothing appears to be sticking.
>
> Does anyone have a checklist for servicing these reverse units? Any
> and all help is greatly appreciated!
>
> Thanks.....John Napierski
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17664 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: New Hope, PA
Tim,

You mentioned New Hope, PA. I found a great boxed set, 20445, North Coast
Limited Passenger set from 1958, on a visit to New Hope in 1995.

My wife and I went to a Greenberg show in Philadephia, saw nothing in Flyer,
and went to New Hope because it is a Arts and Craft town with an early
American canal, which are two other interest we have also.

We walked across the bridge into Lambertville, NJ and went into an old
fashion hardware store, Kline's, that sold craft supplies. He had on the
counter that set for sale. He wanted $1100 for it and it is in E plus, all
the cars and engine. Today it is listed in the TM book for 1800 in E.

So you never know where you might find Flyer.

I also found an E plus 994 UP stock car at a B&B in Maine, who sold trains
on the side, all Lionel, but this piece was there for two years, each time I
stopped in and then purchased it for $110. Tells you how popular Flyer is
and I am glad it sat there for two years! It is $250 in E in the TM book.

So, there still is some great flyer to be found in unusal places.

Happy searching,

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD
Group: S-Trains Message: 17665 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1341
On Sat, 23 Feb 2002 12:55:10 -0700 Gerald R Dobbs <grdobbs@...>
writes:
>
> Right, The early radios were 6 volt (+/-), in all of my
> equipment I use a 12 volt # 1601 for both 6 & 12 volt, I would
> presume that a 6v would work in a 12v , just not as long. The
> transistor being around since the 30s I don't know why vibrators
> were used up tell the late 50s, may be because of the cost,
> vibrators were cheep to build back then. Check your old tubes A.F.
> used a # 117n7 in the 110v whistle controller & a # 1237 in the
> electronic rectiformer.
> Jerry 77-11644
>
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 19:37:30 EST Anormal1@... writes:
> > Hi Jerry,
> > You seem to know about vibrators. Were there
> > different
> > voltage vibrators for the 6v & 12 v systems. There weren't many 8v
>
> > systems
> > around & I think that when they went to 12 v they were on their
> way
> > to
> > transistors. Mike (with a lot of old radio junk) S.

________________________________________________________________
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Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17666 From: ron inscho Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: VIBRATORS
While auto radio vibrator are simular the really are not the same as they
make a 60 cycle pulse & the whistle / horn needs a higher frequency
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17667 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Vibrators & 8 volt battery
All,
Most Amish buggies (that have lights at all) use 8 volt batteries, charged
while the diesel runs to power the milking eqpt. There is NO charging eqpt on
the buggy.
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17668 From: Fire Wood Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: ebay 1706960876
I hereby submit a challenging collection of AF
fixer-uppers on ebay. They almost look like "Titanic"
artifacts. A good rescue by the seller and now looking
for some TLC.(No, I didn't bid)

http://cgi.ebay.ca/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1706960876

Regards,
Dave W.



__________________________________________________
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http://sports.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17669 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: New Hope, PA
Hi,

I think you are right and I think that is where my collection of Flyer pieces has now evolved to - finding the bargains in unexpected places while doing other things. Someone once said words to the effect: Life is what happens while you are waiting for the things you want.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@...>
To: "s-trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 3:03 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] New Hope, PA


> Tim,
>
> You mentioned New Hope, PA. I found a great boxed set, 20445, North Coast
> Limited Passenger set from 1958, on a visit to New Hope in 1995.
>
> My wife and I went to a Greenberg show in Philadephia, saw nothing in Flyer,
> and went to New Hope because it is a Arts and Craft town with an early
> American canal, which are two other interest we have also.
>
> We walked across the bridge into Lambertville, NJ and went into an old
> fashion hardware store, Kline's, that sold craft supplies. He had on the
> counter that set for sale. He wanted $1100 for it and it is in E plus, all
> the cars and engine. Today it is listed in the TM book for 1800 in E.
>
> So you never know where you might find Flyer.
>
> I also found an E plus 994 UP stock car at a B&B in Maine, who sold trains
> on the side, all Lionel, but this piece was there for two years, each time I
> stopped in and then purchased it for $110. Tells you how popular Flyer is
> and I am glad it sat there for two years! It is $250 in E in the TM book.
>
> So, there still is some great flyer to be found in unusal places.
>
> Happy searching,
>
> Mike Marmer
> Germantown, MD
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17670 From: Dan Brindell Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1341
Jerry Dobbs wrote:

> > I would
> > presume that a 6v would work in a 12v , just not as long.

I wouldn't try it. If you put a 6v device in a 12v circuit, you might fry
it. Better to get something rated at 12v.

> > I don't know why vibrators
> > were used up tell the late 50s, may be because of the cost,
> > vibrators were cheap to build back then.

It's not so much that vibrators were cheap, rather that transistors and
silicon diodes were expensive. They really didn't figure out how to build
them cheaply in big quantities, until the late 50's. As soon as they did,
however, everybody was glad to get rid of vibrators and vacuum tubes. The
tubes and vibrators are less reliable (the vibrators because they have
moving parts), take up more space, use more power, and generate more heat.

Dan Brindell
Group: S-Trains Message: 17671 From: TED R LARSON Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: web pages
I had some fun with the digital camera,
I added a bunch of truck photos to the vehicles pages of the reference
section of my website.

http://www.trainweb.org/mhrr


Ted Larson
Space Science Wins Again

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002/01feb_anthrax.htm?list518340
Group: S-Trains Message: 17672 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Columbus GATS
Hi all, just a qiuck note. We added 4 more ft to the 4X8 to make it a 4X 12.
Added 3 sidings of flyer track to the S-helper layout and added a total of 7
accessories for the kids to play with. I'm whipped! I'll tell you more
tomorrow night at chat if we get home in time. Can't wait to get back to the
show tomorrow!!!!! Trains on the brain!!!!

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17673 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Ebay Story
Ebay Story from the Washington Post.

Ebay Seller Disappears Amid Probe

E-Mail This Article

Printer-Friendly Version

Subscribe to The Post





The Associated Press
Saturday, February 23, 2002; 10:26 PM

WHITE LAKE TOWNSHIP, Mich. -- A ceramic figurines dealer has disappeared amid a police and FBI investigation of whether he defrauded at least 100 eBay auction buyers.

The customers say their purchases from a December online auction were never delivered by the seller, Stewart Richardson, 60, who disappeared Jan. 17, police said.

The Lladro's, Hummel and Wee Forest Folk ceramic figurines the customers bought were worth tens of thousands of dollars total. No charges have been filed.

Richardson left his White Lake business - Retired Figurines Exchange - after reportedly withdrawing more than $200,000, police said. His wife filed a missing persons report.

Ebay spokesman Kevin Pursglove said Richardson had built a good reputation at the auction service.

Marten Halma, 55, of Long Island, N.Y., paid $4,000 for four Wee Forest Folk figurines, and "felt my heart sort of sink into my stomach" when he learned of the alleged fraud.

"Because he had such a sterling record, I had no doubt he was on the up and up," Halma said, adding that his money was returned by his credit card company.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17674 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains
group.

File : /AF 4-6-6-4 Challenger project/15 eye candy.jpg
Uploaded by : lbdrummer3 <lbdrummer3@...>
Description : 4-6-6-4 pre pre view. Just sort of put things together to see how it looks. More to come later.

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/AF%204-6-6-4%20Challenger%20project/15%20eye%20candy.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

lbdrummer3 <lbdrummer3@...>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17675 From: srgriggs Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Incredible bidding on a 952G.
If MTH ever decides to get into S gauge rolling stock, they will
probably beat Lionel to the punch on these, too.

With so many manufacturers beating each others' brains out in the
near-scale O gauge market, can an entry into S by one of the major
players be far off? How many semi-scale Big Boys, NYC Hudsons, and
GG1's can the O gauge market absorb before manufacturers start looking
elsewhere to grow their revenues? Over the past few years, some
pretty obscure models have started to appear in O gauge (MTH tooled a
UP magnetic track inspection unit, a C&O Jawn Henry Steam Turbine, and
I think somebody is doing an Erie triplex 2-8-8-8-2). It's hard to
believe that stuff would have a wider appeal than a basic S gauge
steam locomotive like a Mikado or Berkshire. Has anyone heard
anything more on the rumored Lionel S gauge steamer mention recently
in the Dispatch?

Scott


--- In S-Trains@y..., "Neil Trump" <neil.trump@b...> wrote:
> This is why MTH and 'L' cherry pick certain items of value to make
those
> special repros to resale at an affordable price now and make a
profit of
> course. It wouldn't surprise me to see MTH re-issue heavy weights
as a
> special passenger set only minus a loco in various roadnames. As
you say,
> they will sell well, even with the limited original loco roadnames
that
> Flyer offered.
>
> Neil T.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17676 From: jahoozdumm Date: 2/23/2002
Subject: Re: Incredible bidding on a 952G.
David D. wrote:

>Regarding the Heavyweights, Where the tooling is, is a good
>question.

Well FWIW (and that may not be much), here's the story I got from
some fellow TTOS club members who supposedly hob-nob occasionally
with one or more of the various managers or junior managers in charge
of AF prodoction at Lionel:

Supposedly, during the R. Kughn era at Lionel, Mr. K. didn't have a
complete handle on his AF tooling inventory. Before realizing all
that he had, some critical Gilbert tooling had been lost track of,
and had spent some time languishing out-of-doors at Lionel, exposed
to the kind Michigan elements, damaging the tooling beyond repair.
Amongst the tooling were the molds for the heavyweight car bodies, so
the story goes.

I don't think Lionel has ever just STATED openly the status of the
heavyweight car tooling. They've certainly had the question put to
them enough.

>I also dislike anything you can't easily get into to replace light
>bulbs, etc.

Yeah, that's a pain. That is a problem with AM's Superliner cars as
well, but I heven't run mine enough yet to lose any bulbs.

>from what I've gathered, the heavyweight cars were not a good seller
>for ACG after about 1950. Anyone have some documentation on this?

The stuff I've read making the case for poor AF heavyweight sales got
their data from Gilbert sales figures AFAIK. I can state with
complete certainty that if I had been picking out passenger cars for
my train in the '50s, I'd definitely have gone for the most modern
cars available, which the heavyweights were not.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17677 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: ebay 1706960876
We held a discussion a couple of weeks back on paint removal using
the dishwasher. This may offer the opportunity to try paint removal
using the pressure washer. I need to pressure wash the deck this
spring anyway, so maybe I should bid on this lot and kill two birds
with one stone. It looks like a super deal so long as the barber
chair is part of the lot!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17678 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Life (was Re: New Hope, PA)
>Someone once said words to the effect: Life is what happens while you are
waiting for the >things you want.

"Life is what happens while you're busy making plans." -- John Lennon

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17679 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Mel's Diner
Have any of you tried to convert the Mel's Diner so it could use 1/64th
cars for our lay-outs? If so, could you give me ideas on how you adapted
the cars? Is the plastic bracket on the bottom of the 1/43rd '57 Chevy
useable for 1/64th cars? Ideas would really be appreciated.

Mike Leahy
Group: S-Trains Message: 17680 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay Dreamer Of The Week
Somebody actually has a $50 bid in for this item. And no, it is not me!

This is where uneducated people in a hobby can only blame themselves for not
doing any research and where some sellers (a few, don't fry me!) , on Ebay
and off Ebay, take advantage of buyers. But MOST of the blame should be on
the buyer for not slowing down and doing the research about things. The
statement for this item is about the track piece being so rare due to the
box being with it and this is the reason for the high starting bid of 50 for
a 5 dollar item . There is no mention for additional value for it in
Greenberg or TM.

I should know about buying too quickly and trusting a seller, I was taken by
a someone, for the extremely rare version of the Post Cereal Box car for $90
in 1993 dollars, that list today for $28 in 2000 dollars. That got me on
the way to being a more educated buyer.

Chris, I left the message below, because it has the link to this item, if
any one wants to look at it. I know you don't like the responses this way
and I agree with you.

Mike Marmer

----- Original Message -----
From: "af21115" <Dave0616@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 8:24 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] E-Bay Dreamer Of The Week


> There have been a lot of good posts about e-bay this week. This is my
> contribution.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1708251937
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17681 From: erielackawanna76 Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: American Flyer
I'm new to AF trains. I know they're not produced anymore, and
they've become quite a collectors item. I'd like to buy some engines
and cars just to run them. Is there a way to find out how much to pay
for stuff without getting ripped off? Also, I remember those red
boxes. When did AF use those? Finally, is anyone making AF
compatible equipment now?

John
Group: S-Trains Message: 17682 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Fw: Question for seller -- Item #1708251937
Okay, I asked him and I hope he will response. One makes a statement and one
needs to back it.

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: <mlmarmer@...>
To: <mlmarmer@...>
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 11:19 AM
Subject: Question for seller -- Item #1708251937


> Dear Skippytoys,
>
> Could you please explain why this item commands a starting bid price of
$50, because you said it is rare due to the box? I looked at both the
Greenberg and TM price guides and there is no mention, that because it has
the box, it is extremely rare and commands a higher price.
>
> This item lists for $5 in E in the 2000 TM book. And yes, a box will
command a little more.
>
> I am curious of your desription. Maybe there is something I don't know
and you could explain it to me.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Mike Marmer
> --------------------
>
>
> Question from: acadia100
> Title of item: RARE 1947 AMERICAN FLYER #712 SPECIAL TRACK
> Seller: skippytoys
> Starts: Feb-22-02 17:13:57 PST
> Ends: Feb-25-02 17:13:57 PST
> Price: Currently $50.00
> To view the item, go to:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1708251937
>
>
>
> Visit eBay, The World's Online Marketplace TM at http://www.ebay.com
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17683 From: Tom Rolfsmeyer Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Looks great!

Keep us up todate.

Tom
Group: S-Trains Message: 17684 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay Dreamer Of The Week
I don't see any problem with someone asking whatever they want for an
eBay auction. I checked the bidder's feedback and he has bought and
sold a number of Flyer items, some listed as "rare". He also deals
in antique auto parts, so IMHO he can't be all that unaware and un-
educated. Perhaps he knows something we "experts" don't know, maybe
he has a potential buyer, he may have had one as a kid and wants
another or maybe he just likes the boxed item enough to pay 50 bucks
for it! If the seller and buyer are both pleased when the auction is
over, who are we to judge the "fairness" of the deal?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17685 From: Paul Yorke Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: op's in Cleveland
From:"Terry Harrison" <terryharr@...> |
Block Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 09:28:45 -0500
Subject: [S-Scale] op's in Cleveland
Reply-to: "Terry Harrison" <terryharr@...>

I just got word yesterday that I have two spots
for a clinic in Cleveland this year. One on Friday
night and one Sat. morning.
My clinic will be on "Operation- moving the cars
like the prototype". This clinic is NOT a scale only
clinic. I know of many hi-rail and Lionel layouts that
operate in a prototype fashion. It is just another
way to move your equipment around your layout in some
form of order. So I would like to see a nice mix of
scale and hi-rail people there.
I hope to have a live, trains moving demonstration
which may help visualize what all these terms mean. It
isn't rocket science, if it was mine would never get
off ground.


Terry

=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17686 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: incredible bidding on a 952G
A mistake may have been made, but I can certainly understand why someone
would make that bid for that car.

If you just for one second put aside all the silly games collectors play
with "prices" and "values", all of which are are hypothetical, theoretical,
and arbitrary and capricious, and just look at the situation in real terms,
it becomes quite clear.

THAT'S A BEAUTIFUL CAR!!!

It has to be one of the most beautiful pieces of rolling stock Gilbert ever
made.

I can really see someone, especially after a long winter, deciding that he
wanted to own it before he died, regardless of price.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17687 From: David Dewey Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Question for seller -- Item #1708251937
This is one of those tough questions. What IS the value of a box? Depends on
the box, as some boxes are quiet rare. The rail section is common, but how
common is the box? Not very. IF were a collector with everything NIB, I
might be quiet interested in this box. But since I'm CHEAP! (ask almost
anyone!) I doubt I would pay $50.
For example of the value of a box; I have many end of track bumpers,
currently they go for around $15--but I do have one in a plain brown small
square box with the five-diget number stamed on it (no piece of track, as
they usually were package). I am told this one (because of the box) is quite
rare. How did I get it? Gee, I don't remember, I've had it since the '70s
and never had need to use it, so it's still in the box.
I'd say let us just sit back and watch what happens!
S'
David D.
PS I can remember when HSS had a 6 for $10 special on those bumpers, that's
why I have as many as I do!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17688 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay dreamer of the day
I wrote this to the high bidder on this $50 Flyer track section:
To member: mohrlang@...
From member: busy-boy

Hi:
I've seen your name on e-Bay many times before, particularly associated with
American Flyer auctions. The "Special Track" auction on which you are
currently bidding has come up as the subject of discussion on the S-Trains
mail list. Members are amazed that this item is at the $50 level. I
certainly am. I have two of these (with box) myself and thought nothing of
them. What is the story on this item? Can you fill us in with some
details?
Thanx,
Chris Zizzo
(busy-boy)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17689 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Question for seller -- Item #1708251937
David,

Yes, a box will command a more, possibly allot more on a rare set or car,
but again, do you take the word of one person, and then you find out from
those who are '"experts" in a hobby it was not.

Again, this person made a statement on a very common item and I see no
backing for his statement.

This hobby and others has too many opinions in what is valuable or not. I
noticed today, a new member came about to S List and it seems like he has
very little knowledge about Flyers past and where S is going. He did the
right thing, he asked questions in his email and hopefully he will continue
to ask these question and learn all he and enjoy the hobby. Hopefully, we
will answer his questions for him.

We all say we want the scale to grow, but dealings like this one to new
people who put their trust in someone, can hurt the overall growth, when
they decided they had enough. even those who buy the new items, may be
tempted to buy some flyer.

I think we as a group need to use the function on Ebay more where you can
send the seller a question in a professional manner. Hopefully, they will
respond back with their reasons and they one may continue to ask others in
the hobby about it and read books on AF to find out. These sellers need to
know now, we will question there claims. Maybe, it will weed those out or
maybe it will make them more honest. Maybe this person really believes in
his heart it is rare, so maybe he needs more education. Again, as you said,
David, it is a tuff call.

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD
Group: S-Trains Message: 17690 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay dreamer of the day
The seller in question, Ray Mohrlang, is a member of Rocky Mountain Division of TCA.
I know him personally, and have bought parts from him. I would not question his
honesty in his dealings. If I am correct, Ray also tends to collect rare and unique
AF items.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


Chris Zizzo wrote:

> I wrote this to the high bidder on this $50 Flyer track section:
> To member: mohrlang@...
> >From member: busy-boy
>
> Hi:
> I've seen your name on e-Bay many times before, particularly associated with
> American Flyer auctions. The "Special Track" auction on which you are
> currently bidding has come up as the subject of discussion on the S-Trains
> mail list. Members are amazed that this item is at the $50 level. I
> certainly am. I have two of these (with box) myself and thought nothing of
> them. What is the story on this item? Can you fill us in with some
> details?
> Thanx,
> Chris Zizzo
> (busy-boy)
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17691 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer
John,

Welcome to the list and I hope you enjoy being part of a fun hobby.

I, myself, was re-introduce to American Flyer, after many years of having
those trains sit in storage, like many of us now into S scale and AF.

There are many sellers, in the market place for old, used AF and there are
new makers of S products.

Go to Paul's website for good information to read on the hobby amd many
links.

There are books available on AF, including price guides from Greenberg and
TM. You can find allot of inexspensive items, just for the sake of running
trains and having fun. The new makers of S have great product and is very
reasonable. American Models and S Helper have website. Use a search engine
for the web and just key in American Flyer Trains and you will see lots of
websites.

The red boxes came out around 1955 I believe and hopefully someone knows the
exact year.

If you have questions about things, ask, I am sure someone will have an
answer for you,

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD
Group: S-Trains Message: 17692 From: David Dewey Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer
John,
Welcome to S gauge. Maybe others have responded already, but I'll put in
my 2¢ worth.
American Flyer was made by ACG from 1946 to 1966 (OK, the technical guys
will tell you that all '66 production was left-over 64 stuff, but that's
OK!) It has been made, sporadically by Lionel since '79, and some
accessories have recently been made by MTH too. At least two modern
companies make S gauge trains, American Models and S Helper Service, both
produce a fairly wide variety of equipment that is much more detailed than
the old American Flyer.
SOME American Flyer is very collectable, and some is very affordable.
There is too much variety to explain this in one simple e-mail, but you can
learn a lot by reading stuff on the internet, and the many books on the
subject. Talking with someone who has been in the hobby a long time is even
better.
The red boxes were used starting around 1956, prior to that they were
blue and yellow.
S gauge is a fun size to have, large enough to have some heft, and easy
to work with for both young hands and old(er) eyes! It is more tolerant of
poorly aligned track than HO and doesn't require the large amount of space
that O does to look realistic.
I'm sure others can provide lots more detail, I just wanted to give you
the "cliff notes' version!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17693 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay dreamer of the day
Chris,

I am glad you question him also. We need to start doing this as a group to
let them know we are watching them. They will only hurt the hobby in the
end, for their greed of a one time sale, that will put a bad taste in my
mouth and other's who bad this stuff, toward the hobby.

Mike
Group: S-Trains Message: 17694 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay dreamer of the day
Roger,

I got an response from the seller. It is not a Ray Mohrlang.

Mike Marmer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@...>
To: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
Cc: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] re: E-Bay dreamer of the day


> The seller in question, Ray Mohrlang, is a member of Rocky Mountain
Division of TCA.
> I know him personally, and have bought parts from him. I would not
question his
> honesty in his dealings. If I am correct, Ray also tends to collect rare
and unique
> AF items.
>
> Roger Petrella
> Franktown, CO
>
>
> Chris Zizzo wrote:
>
> > I wrote this to the high bidder on this $50 Flyer track section:
> > To member: mohrlang@...
> > >From member: busy-boy
> >
> > Hi:
> > I've seen your name on e-Bay many times before, particularly associated
with
> > American Flyer auctions. The "Special Track" auction on which you are
> > currently bidding has come up as the subject of discussion on the
S-Trains
> > mail list. Members are amazed that this item is at the $50 level. I
> > certainly am. I have two of these (with box) myself and thought nothing
of
> > them. What is the story on this item? Can you fill us in with some
> > details?
> > Thanx,
> > Chris Zizzo
> > (busy-boy)
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17695 From: af21115 Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay dreamer of the day
I've been busy all weekend and finally had a few minutes to get to
read the posts. Since I posted the original post to this thread, and
have read the responses, it occurred to me that both the lone bidder,
and the seller, are two of "the" biggest AF collectors in the
country. At this point I would not say either was unknowledgeable
about this product in the least. However, far from being a newbie
myself, I still would not justify $50 as a value for that item, boxed
or not, and still think $50 is a dreamers price. They, the 712's, are
not exactly easy to find in the seperate sale box, granted,, but they
do show up, and have never been priced at more than $25 IIRC, even at
York. This will be interesting indeed!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17696 From: Robert Wight Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: 495 "O" AF passenger car
Folks; Recently, after watching what I thought I had was junk is now rare
and worth what ever someone is willing to pay. Supposed to be a recession
but not what I can see on these prices. Any who, I have a 495 "O" gauge AF
passenger car. I was going to strip it for parts. Like the light and windows
and ect. But then I thought to myself. "Self" maybe this is something that
someone might need for whatever. I dont need it and im realy not into
selling things on E-bay or anywhere else. Im retired from the sales field
and totally burnt out on the public. I have a pick-up in the driveway I
would like to sell but then I would have to deal with people. so it sits and
so does this passenger car. I honestly have no idea of the worth, if any, of
this passenger car. Anyone need it? Want to swap for something? I'll wait a
couple days then off to the parts stripper it goes.
Yours in Railroading
Bob Wight


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17697 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay dreamer of the day
What is it with you guys?
READ the damn posts.
Ray Mohrlang is the BUYER!!!!!!!!! Not the seller.
All I was asking was why this particular piece was considered valuable.
When I get his answer I'll post it here. Then we'll all have learned
something.
It's not about your agenda. It's about the trains.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17698 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Fw: Question for seller -- Item #1708251937
I have the response from Skippy's Toys and you all can make your own
judgment on his response. I took his real name out of the response. I never
heard of his name before in any publication about American Flyer. If any
body wants it, I will sent it to you in private. Not sure if you all want
to put it all on the list or not.

Anybody at anytime will buy anything that is for sale and I think the bidder
who is bidding on it because, he put the statement about the box being rare,
to get people's attention. In my travels in talking to many people about AF
and reading about AF, I have never heard of such a thing about this piece.
Do you trust him or people like Joe Deger, Bob Tufts, Don Heimburger who
wrote books on AF or a Skippy Toys, with a weak response to me. Is he right
or wrong, I don't know, but I will continue to seek the advice from those
who are true experts about flyer before I make a purchase. I would hate to
see someone buy something only to learn he has been ripped off because of
the statement below with no real backing, his opinion only.

That is my point about this. I collect rare flyer, not common pieces, so I
don't read all the descriptions like the person who pointed this out.
Others do and put there trust into the seller with out doing the research to
see if it is true. That is what I am trying to show, do the research before
bidding. Ask him and others who know AF questions, before making a
decision. I hope who ever buys this item, made a right choice, because he
wants that box and is not buying it for the sole purpose of investment. Bad
reason to be in a hobby for the most part, buying for investment. You
should be in a hobby because you like and enjoy it.

But people like John, the new member, may start collecting AF, and probably
will collect some common pieces in their start and new people need to find
out all they can to be sure that Skippy Toys is correct in his information.
He had no references to quote me on his reasoning about that box.

So what do I charge for a $8 (2000 dollars in TM) in E crossover in mint
with the same type of box, that I was charged $25 in 1993 dollars. I don't
think this item I have is worth ten times E.

Again, I am just trying to have some dialogue to see if we can help find out
who is good and who is not good when selling flyer. And yes, we should
support the good in our buying.

Sorry if this was too long, but I feel this issue is important in keeping S
alive and growing.

Mike
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: Question for seller -- Item #1708251937


> Hi, Most books are incomplete as far as total information. The Box is
almost
> unknown and that's why it's rare. Someone else must think so also because
I
> have a bid on it. skippytoys
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <mlmarmer@...>it
> To: <davidjg10@...>
> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 10:19 AM
> Subject: Question for seller -- Item #1708251937
>
>
> > Dear Skippytoys,
> >
> > Could you please explain why this item commands a starting bid price of
> $50, because you said it is rare due to the box? I looked at both the
> Greenberg and TM price guides and there is no mention, that because it has
> the box, it is extremely rare and commands a higher price.
> >
> > This item lists for $5 in E in the 2000 TM book. And yes, a box will
> command a little more.
> >
> > I am curious of your desription. Maybe there is something I don't know
> and you could explain it to me.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Mike Marmer
> > --------------------
> >
> >
> > Question from: acadia100
> > Title of item: RARE 1947 AMERICAN FLYER #712 SPECIAL TRACK
> > Seller: skippytoys
> > Starts: Feb-22-02 17:13:57 PST
> > Ends: Feb-25-02 17:13:57 PST
> > Price: Currently $50.00
> > To view the item, go to:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1708251937
> >
> >
> >
> > Visit eBay, The World's Online Marketplace TM at http://www.ebay.com
> >
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17699 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay dreamer of the day
Roger said in his post Ray was the seller.

If Roger is the buyer, then he sees something of value and I am happy for
him.

I hope he is buying it because he wants that box for the collection and it
is a worthy item to him.

Again, it is a tough call in AF with items that can't maybe giving a true
value. But we do see some things being sold at high prices at shows and on
Ebay, and, hopefully we can work as a group to try to find out why.

We are learning about this item and to some it is valuable and to some it is
not.

I wish him well with that piece, maybe Ray can tell us about it when the
auction is over. Or maybe now, there will be a run on this piece!

We all learn new things about Flyer everyday and maybe this is one of them.

Mike
Group: S-Trains Message: 17700 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: DO IT YOURSELF DECALS
Hi here is a web site for those of you that might want to make decals that
you cannot find www.mcgpaper.com/decals.html
I bought an AF LTI car from him & he sent me info on his CO.
Thought some of you may have an interest. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17701 From: Dan Brindell Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Yeeeooowww! That's a fantastic job of modeling, but what radius track do
you need to run it on?

Dan B.

----- Original Message -----
From: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 11:21 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] New file uploaded to S-Trains


>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains
> group.
>
> File : /AF 4-6-6-4 Challenger project/15 eye candy.jpg
> Uploaded by : lbdrummer3 <lbdrummer3@...>
> Description : 4-6-6-4 pre pre view. Just sort of put things together to
see how it looks. More to come later.
>
> You can access this file at the URL
>
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/AF%204-6-6-4%20Challenger%20pro
ject/15%20eye%20candy.jpg
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit
>
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> lbdrummer3 <lbdrummer3@...>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17702 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay dreamer of the day
Chris,

Sorry, if I came across that way. Buying of trains is one's opinion, I am
learning and I think maybe all of on this list should stop the comments
about what is for sale and let the market place take it course. For every
seller there is a buyer and let it be. If you didn't understand my reason
for these email, it is because I took the advice of someone who was on one
of those Deger books and was burned badly. I was just trying to make people
to think to get second opinions before buying ANYTHING. Ask the questions,
make a decision, move on.

Again, as I said before, if you want it bad enough, then go for it.

I do wish everyone well and buy with your what you think is right,

I am sorry, if I started anything, I just had good intentions for all and
maybe it didn't came out that way to some. I wasn't trying to tear down
anyone.

Mike
Group: S-Trains Message: 17703 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, February 24, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains
Group: S-Trains Message: 17704 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay dreamer of the day
Chris,

No, I didn't notice that you identified him as the buyer. Guess I have to look
closer. And I was trying to do just what you said, not start another useless
thread on someone's integrity. Maybe that's why I responding so quickly without
reading fully. What I said about Ray is true though, so hopefully we won't get
something started on him.

Roger


Chris Zizzo wrote:

> Roger:
> Does my letter appear to you to question Ray's honesty?
>
> Did you notice that I identified him as the high bidder, not the seller?
>
> Did you really want to start up another idiotic thread like the one we just
> went through about Doug Peck? That one was based on a knee-jerk reply to a
> throw-away humorous comment that was completely misunderstood.
>
> Does anybody actually read the posts any more?
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@...>
> To: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
> Cc: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 2:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] re: E-Bay dreamer of the day
>
> > The seller in question, Ray Mohrlang, is a member of Rocky Mountain
> Division of TCA.
> > I know him personally, and have bought parts from him. I would not
> question his
> > honesty in his dealings. If I am correct, Ray also tends to collect rare
> and unique
> > AF items.
> >
> > Roger Petrella
> > Franktown, CO
> >
> >
> > Chris Zizzo wrote:
> >
> > > I wrote this to the high bidder on this $50 Flyer track section:
> > > To member: mohrlang@...
> > > >From member: busy-boy
> > >
> > > Hi:
> > > I've seen your name on e-Bay many times before, particularly associated
> with
> > > American Flyer auctions. The "Special Track" auction on which you are
> > > currently bidding has come up as the subject of discussion on the
> S-Trains
> > > mail list. Members are amazed that this item is at the $50 level. I
> > > certainly am. I have two of these (with box) myself and thought nothing
> of
> > > them. What is the story on this item? Can you fill us in with some
> > > details?
> > > Thanx,
> > > Chris Zizzo
> > > (busy-boy)
> > >
> > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> > >
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
Group: S-Trains Message: 17705 From: Mike Vana Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: E-Bay dreamer of the day
On that 712 in the box, it's Ray Mohrlang who BID on it.
Having met Ray, and seen much of his collection, which
includes some really unique things which I've never seen
anywhere else, rest assured that he knows what he's doing,
and if it was not worth $50 to him, he wouldn't bid on it.

Calm down guys!!! Nobody forces anyone else to bid on their
items on Ebay. To me, Ebay has been great, both as a buyer
and a seller. You have to be careful, but isn't that true
about anywhere things are bought and sold?

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17706 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Welcome to uComics -- The Best Comic Site In The Universe!
Okay, here a little ebay humor and substitute American Flyer for the subject matter.

Mike Marmer

http://www.ucomics.com/cgi-bin/sendtoafriend/emailcomic.cgi?uc_full_date=20020202&uc_comic=td&site_ref=ucomics


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17707 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Welcome to uComics Web Site featuring Tom the Dancing Bug -- The Be
This might work a little faster. Click on below and then click on the previous comic about 3 times, although this week's is great, but I think we all can laugh at the humor of the take on Ebay.

Mike Marmer

http://www.ucomics.com/tomthedancingbug/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17708 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: rockets and sticky action doors
I hate it when I can't get on chat!

Two questions:
What's the difference between a rocket from a 929 launcher and one from a
25059 launcher? My boys have been having a blast (pun intended) playing with
my 929s. I cut a pikemaster coupler off a set of junk trucks and glued it to
the 25059 that I was told I'd never be able to fix. It only took me 7 years!
The 929 rocket doesn't seem long enough to push the spring back to cock it.

Why do my operating cars' doors stick open? I recently wired up my mail car
and an in-box 25042 that was purchased by its original owner for its axles
and wheels only (I recently replaced them and pick up spring).. Both cars
throw one can or barrel then the door sicks open and the man doesn't go all
of the way back.

Just finished the MTH coal loader speed up trick. My 719s load on one track
and unload on another into the tray. Cool! My seven year was a coal baron
last night. My layout is almost ready to have guests come see and run it.
Yippee!

Jacques
Group: S-Trains Message: 17709 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Final Notification: 2002 Flyonel Items
Joe's Train Repair will be offering for sale the "new"
American Flyer trains recently announced in the latest
Lionel catalog. However, the deadline for orders will
be Tuesday, February 26 at midnight. No orders will
be honored after that time.

Prices are as follows:

Boxcars, Chemical Car, and Caboose ($47)
AF C&O Boxcar(blue and yellow)
AF C&O Boxcar (Share in Freedom)
AF Gilbert Chemicals Chemical car (white/yellow)
AF Rock Island Caboose

Hopper, Flat and Gondola ($43)
AF B&O 3-bay Hopper
AF Reading Gondola with 6 Pipes
AF ATSF Flatcar with 2 Jet Canisters

New York Central double PA with 4 passenger cars
($495)

Rock Island GP-9 ($230)

Checkerboard Bubbling Water Tower ($72)

Shipping, handling, and insurance are extra.

For photographs, see the most recent Lionel catalog or
go to
www.train-station.com/cgi-local/shop.pl/page=6-20021-007x.html/SID=29
(where x is a value from 72-75 to see the four
different pages).

Joe


=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17710 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: AF Estate Sale
Hello, S Friends.

The American Flyer collection of the late Jim Deroin, charter member of the Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers, has been catalogued and prepared for sale, and is offered here to subscribers to S-Trains. I have assisted Jim's widow, Barbara, and given it my best shot for appraisal. If you would like to see a list of the 50 or so items, ranging from locomotives to rolling stock, from transformers to Greenberg books, please e-mail me OFF LIST at <number22.id@...>

Please indicate if you have a preference for WordPerfect or MS Word format (I have both). The list will be sent as an attachment.

YourS,
John Eichmann, Coordinator
Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers
Boise, Idaho
NASG 95R0030W
Group: S-Trains Message: 17711 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: BAR Car Doors
Joe's Train Repair is pleased to announce replacement
doors for American Flyer 982/24089 BAR State of Maine
boxcars. These doors are professionally painted by an
artist and are in extremely limited supply. Cost is
$25 plus S&H per door.

Joe


=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17712 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: 4-6-6-4 Challenger UPDATE
Hi all, just added some more pics of my baby to the files section in
the same folder. The only thing left is the valve gear and tenders.
Everything is coming pretty good so far.
Thanks you all for all the complements I've received during the
construction. It really helps when I run into a block wall and have
to re-design something I've re-designed already.

Also, I have a request, I found a gem in the junk! I recently bought
a bunch of junkers and started picking through it to get some parts
for the Challenger and found a tender with a whistle in it! There
is a pic of it in the 4-6-6-4 Challenger folder. How does it work? I
put track power to it and all I get is a hummm???

Thanks,
Fred
Group: S-Trains Message: 17713 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: rockets and sticky action doors
Jacques: cock the later rocket launcher car with a pencil, then insert the
rocket. If small children are involved, an unsharpened pencil is best.

With the action box cars, a very short burst of power from the button, as
brief as you can make it, will often make the door close.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17714 From: THOMAS E HILLERY Date: 2/24/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1346
Re: boxes
Friends gave me a couple of bottles of Cristal champagne that came in
gold looking padded boxes. I stuck some FAs (I bought off E-bay) in them
but would be willing
to stick some old track in them and let someone bid... Starting bid
$51...Will be rare and hard to find unless someone gives me more booze
Group: S-Trains Message: 17715 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: rockets and sticky action doors
Hi,

I had the same problem with a #974 operating box/package car. It takes a minute adjustment to a little metal bar operating the door inside the car. There is a very fine line between it working beautifully and sticking as you noted. But after tinkering with it for about an hour several months ago when I bought it, it has worked splendidly ever since.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: <Jollivier4@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 10:06 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] rockets and sticky action doors


> I hate it when I can't get on chat!
>
> Two questions:
> What's the difference between a rocket from a 929 launcher and one from a
> 25059 launcher? My boys have been having a blast (pun intended) playing with
> my 929s. I cut a pikemaster coupler off a set of junk trucks and glued it to
> the 25059 that I was told I'd never be able to fix. It only took me 7 years!
> The 929 rocket doesn't seem long enough to push the spring back to cock it.
>
> Why do my operating cars' doors stick open? I recently wired up my mail car
> and an in-box 25042 that was purchased by its original owner for its axles
> and wheels only (I recently replaced them and pick up spring).. Both cars
> throw one can or barrel then the door sicks open and the man doesn't go all
> of the way back.
>
> Just finished the MTH coal loader speed up trick. My 719s load on one track
> and unload on another into the tray. Cool! My seven year was a coal baron
> last night. My layout is almost ready to have guests come see and run it.
> Yippee!
>
> Jacques
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17716 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: A/F Tranformers
I just finished repairing a 17B transformer and recalled discussion of
several months ago by this group. Some members felt that with this
transformer and other similar deadman type units such as the 30B, the
aspect that there was always voltage to the track unless the handle was
raised, was undesirable. While inside the 17B I added a small piece of
electrical tape to the copper bar on the low voltage end of the coil.
In this manner, the roller exits the windings and rests on an insulated
spot on the copper bar. Now when I rotate the turret to "0", I have 0
voltage to the track. The deadman aspect still works like original.
As this seems like such a simple fix for a problem perceived by some, am
I missing something I should be aware of?
Also, has anyone info on disassembling the turret from the housing? I'm
especially interested in the procedure in removing the retainer on the
inside center shaft. Any advice would be appreciated before I screw
something up.
Thanks, Gene
Group: S-Trains Message: 17717 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Funnies and Chatters
Funny comix Mike. You are right, just substitute trains for the LotR
figurines."Part 2: Prophecy of the Near Mint". Excellent!
______________________________________________________________________

Chat hit new highs last night. At peak, we kept breaking the former
attendance record of 16 until we topped out at 21. Dave Garber even dropped
his double sign-in before we hit it. At 11:30, 11 chatters were still at
it. I checked out at midnight with 7 still going strong. Dewey Duck was
sick, but hung in there, sipping his chicken soup through a straw. (I guess
that's not cannibalism between duck and chicken, hmmm?)

We added two fresh faced newbies whom, I hope, will join us here on the
Daily Show. Steve Blackburn announced that he would be taking it on the
road to NASG in Cleveland. Also, he said you can get a copy of Vol. 3 (if
you don't have one) of the formerly out-of-print big videotape when you
order Vol. 4. Will the re-release affect the value of the MIB Vol. 3 you
already have? Only time will tell.

A great chat night, setting, breaking and re-setting records while the
Olympiad theme music resounded from all our television sets . How can we
top it?

See you on the chat next week.
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17718 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: The infamous 712
I received a reply from Ray Mohrlang re: that $50 bid on a "special track".
I am posting it below, verbatim, which means I just cut and pasted it in
without comment or change. He included my original question and I have left
it attached since there was so much confusion about what the question
actually was.
Chris Zizzo
_____________________________________________________________________

Hello Chris,
The trip and track section are not rare at all, but (as Dave mentioned in
the description) the box is very hard to find.
Gilbert changed from the inside rail pickup to the oustide rail pickup for
their action cars sometime in mid 1947. They were using both the smaller
Blue and yellow boxes in addition the the larger brown boxes to pack the
cars in, and the trip and track section did not fit in the smaller box with
the car, as they did with the larger brown corrogated boxes. For a brief
period they packaged (and cataloged) the trip and track section as a one
piece unit as they did with the earlier 710 automatic track section for the
inside rail action cars, and it was probably easier to package them (because
of the odd size) in a box rather than wrapping it in paper as they did the
710 when they packed the inside rail action cars in the smaller boxes. At
any rate, they didn't do it very long.
No one really knows for sure, why they did it this way, but another possible
explanation might be, since they advertised it as a 712 they might not have
wanted to confuse the consumer with two extra pieces packed with the train.
It would have been easier for the consumer to set the train up the first
time by having a box with the contents printed 712 automatic track section
as it was advertised. At any rate it is a very tough box to find, and worth
the money to me.

The box in question on eBay belongs to Dave Garrigues who is the most
knowledgable American Flyer collector around. There isn't much in early "S"
gauge that he hasn't seen, and this is the only box he has ever owned, and
untill your email I wasn't aware of any others. I don't have it in my
collection so the rest is history.

Hope this helps.
Thanks for the email,
Ray Mohrlang

----- Original Message -----
From: <busyboy@...>
To: <mohrlang@...>
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 7:55 AM
Subject: Question from eBay Member
>
> To member: mohrlang@...
> From member: busy-boy
>
> --------------------
>
>
> Hi:
> I've seen your name on e-Bay many times before, particularly associated
with American Flyer auctions. The "Special Track" auction on which you are
currently bidding has come up as the subject of discussion on the S-Trains
mail list. Members are amazed that this item is at the $50 level. I
certainly am. I have two of these (with box) myself and thought nothing of
them. What is the story on this item? Cna you fill us in with some
details?
> Thanx,
> Chris Zizzo
> (busy-boy)
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17719 From: Scott Holm Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: rockets and sticky action doors
> The 929 rocket doesn't seem long enough to push the spring back to
> cock it.

Having the same problem using a repro rocket, I checked out some
originals on cars for sale and those rockets had a plug on the end
instead of being open ended and I'm guessing that the addition of this
cap or button is just enough to cock the spring. I don't know if
anybody sells this plug or repro rockets that have it. Maybe the plug
from the end of a pen would work?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17720 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: The infamous 712
Ah ha, just as I suspected. Now those of us with the same box will have to
put it in a cimate controlled room, with a time-lock on it, instead of in
the bottom of the laundry room closet! ;-)
Well, I don't have that box, so I should worrry? (Said with an Alfred E.
Newman face)

I do appreciate the post, and the polite manner in which the question was
both asked and answered. As always, beauty (and value) lies in the eye of
the beholder (or the eBay bidder, in this case).

S'
David D.
PS. Getting better now, whew!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17721 From: crustyfour Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: A/F Tranformers
--- In S-Trains@y..., Eugene Steffan <stefengineer@e...> wrote:
snip

Some members felt that with this transformer and other similar
deadman type units such as the 30B, the aspect that there was always
voltage to the track unless the handle was raised, was undesirable

snip

I recall the discussion about this but I can't see a serious
disadvantage in maintaining a slight voltage to the track when at the
zero position. If you really need to remove all power, it only takes
a second to lift the handle. Is there concern that this small
voltage could cause damage somehthing or someone? The obvious
advantage is that a train can be stoped and re-started without the
reverse unit cycling or having to be locked out. After using a non-
deadman transformer for a while, I realize how much nicer it is to
run WITH a deadman type.

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 17722 From: crustyfour Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: 4-6-6-4 Challenger UPDATE
--- In S-Trains@y..., "lbdrummer3" <lbdrummer3@y...> wrote:
> Hi all, just added some more pics of my baby to the files section
in the same folder.


Awesome job Fred! I just hope that on a two track curve there are no
other trains at the same time. That looong nose could ruin an
oncoming Atlantic's whole day.

I hope you'll soon be adding a detailed "how to" article to go with
your great photos.

Have you decided on a road name and number yet ?

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 17723 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Gilbert decals
Does anyone know if Gilbert used decal setting solution on its diesel body
decals?

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17724 From: ron inscho Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: A/F Tranformers
While it is true that this low voltage is not harmfull to anything & it
is there to hold the e unit in gear, It can be a problem when running low
current draw motors as found in S Helper & American models as these will
still run at the min. voltage & you need to interupt the current to stop
these motors.
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17725 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: A/F Tranformers
Ron Inscho said about "dead-man" transformers::
>While this low voltage is there to hold the e unit in gear, it can be a
problem when running low
>current draw motors as found in S Helper & American models as these will
>still run at the min. voltage & you need to interupt the current to stop
them.

Funny thing about the problems a changing technology brings us. The
solution is usually just a matter of how you look at the problem.

Gilbert used to provide the "lockout eliminator", a device designed to keep
enough current on at a station stop to prevent reverse unit cycling, while
not providing enough power to move the train. I never had one, so I used to
bring my transformer down to a real low spot and try to hold her there
without dropping the connection. I got good at it. Not bad for an eight
year old!

When, as an adult, I finally got a 30B, I realized that the ability to run
the lever all the way down and hold the train was a great lockout eliminator
eliminator. Of course, things changed and the new can motored engines can
do a scale 10 mph on that holding voltage, but . . . the new models also
start in forward if you kill power for a few seconds. So . . .

With old Flyer, keep the handle down and the voltage on. With new stuff,
lift the handle and kill the power. Neither one will require reverse unit
cycling. You are in S gauge heaven.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17726 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: 4-6-6-4 Road name & numbers
Hey Steve
I haven't got that one out sorted out yet. I want to use an American
Flyer UP Northern tender with it but the number isn't picked out
yet. I am leaning on 33636 or 4664, but still fielding suggestion
from anyone that has a good idea. The whole concept is if this was a
real flyer engine, what number do you think they would have assigned
to it???

<<I hope you'll soon be adding a detailed "how to" article to go with
<<your great photos.

A how to article is in the works.

<<I just hope that on a two track curve there are no other trains at
<<the same time. That looong nose could ruin an oncoming Atlantic's
<<whole day.
You are so right, I think it will have to be run on the inside track
and I will have to be carful with my accessory placement as well.
Until I joined this list a few weeks ago I didn't know curved track
with a larger radius was even made so that can be one of my other
options. I still wanted it to able to go around standard flyer track
though.
TTYL
Fred
Group: S-Trains Message: 17727 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: A/F Tranformers
When you've tried a panic stop to avoid a wreck on a modular layout
running can motor diesels and forgotten to lift the handle, you will
come to hate the dead man control. Our club's solution was to put panic
stop buttons in our ac/dc control boxes.

crustyfour wrote:
>
> --- In S-Trains@y..., Eugene Steffan <stefengineer@e...> wrote:
> snip
>
> Some members felt that with this transformer and other similar
> deadman type units such as the 30B, the aspect that there was always
> voltage to the track unless the handle was raised, was undesirable
>
> snip
>
> I recall the discussion about this but I can't see a serious
> disadvantage in maintaining a slight voltage to the track when at the
> zero position. If you really need to remove all power, it only takes
> a second to lift the handle. Is there concern that this small
> voltage could cause damage somehthing or someone? The obvious
> advantage is that a train can be stoped and re-started without the
> reverse unit cycling or having to be locked out. After using a non-
> deadman transformer for a while, I realize how much nicer it is to
> run WITH a deadman type.
>
> Steve Blancard
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17728 From: TWesthelle@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Repo Decals
Hi,
I am in search of a pair of NYC repo decals for the AF 24065 boxcar.
I want as quality a pair as possible, this is the first decal/sticker Ive
looked for, and value those opinions here, sure someone has a line on the
best there is.
Thanks in advance.
Tom Westhelle
Oviedo, FL
Group: S-Trains Message: 17729 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Repo Decals
If you find them...I need a set too...bob
----- Original Message -----
From: <TWesthelle@...>
To: "S Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 2:02 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Repo Decals


> Hi,
> I am in search of a pair of NYC repo decals for the AF 24065 boxcar.
> I want as quality a pair as possible, this is the first decal/sticker Ive
> looked for, and value those opinions here, sure someone has a line on the
> best there is.
> Thanks in advance.
> Tom Westhelle
> Oviedo, FL
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17730 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: A/F Tranformers
Has anyone thought of adding a "Kill" switch to the track wiring. Also handy
as a "PANIC" button when things go really wrong. I also like to add a push
button full votage line for rapid cycling of the reverse unit. This can be
wired around the "Kill" button too, to make life easier.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17731 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: A/F Tranformers
'lock out eliminator eliminator'? Isn't that 'lock out eliminator squared'?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
To: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: A/F Tranformers


> Ron Inscho said about "dead-man" transformers::
> >While this low voltage is there to hold the e unit in gear, it can be a
> problem when running low
> >current draw motors as found in S Helper & American models as these will
> >still run at the min. voltage & you need to interupt the current to stop
> them.
>
> Funny thing about the problems a changing technology brings us. The
> solution is usually just a matter of how you look at the problem.
>
> Gilbert used to provide the "lockout eliminator", a device designed to keep
> enough current on at a station stop to prevent reverse unit cycling, while
> not providing enough power to move the train. I never had one, so I used to
> bring my transformer down to a real low spot and try to hold her there
> without dropping the connection. I got good at it. Not bad for an eight
> year old!
>
> When, as an adult, I finally got a 30B, I realized that the ability to run
> the lever all the way down and hold the train was a great lockout eliminator
> eliminator. Of course, things changed and the new can motored engines can
> do a scale 10 mph on that holding voltage, but . . . the new models also
> start in forward if you kill power for a few seconds. So . . .
>
> With old Flyer, keep the handle down and the voltage on. With new stuff,
> lift the handle and kill the power. Neither one will require reverse unit
> cycling. You are in S gauge heaven.
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17732 From: Thomas Stoltz Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: noisy K5
Train Gang,

I have a K5 that I recently converted to a DC can motor and it is very noisy. I have tried different can motors with no impact on the noise level. I checked the can motors before I installed them, they were very quiet. If I take the load off the wheels (hold the engine off the track), there is little noise. When I installed the can motor I noticed that, with it properly seated, it was noisy and sometimes would bind. So when I backed it off a little it got a little less noisy. I used a rubber shim that allowed me to adjust the seating until I had the least amount of noise. But when I placed it on the track--growl. The K5 also runs at an unsteady rate at slow speeds, maybe a little better in reverse but not much.

I'm pretty sure that the noise is caused by gear/worm alignment. I think the wheels are a little loose in their bearings, so I'm thinking that I should rebush the chassis.

Has anyone done this? Do you think that rebushing will solve the problem? How is the drive gear aligned? Quartering by eyeball?

This is the second K5 I've converted to can motor. The first one is as quiet as anything I have from SHS or AM. The only difference is the quiet one is SIT, the noisy one SIB.

I'm about to order bushings from Doug, any thoughts would be appreciated.

Can't stand the noise,

Tom


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17733 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: A/F Tranformers
Speaking of "Kill" and "PANIC",
doesn't duck hunting season open soon?
This could be what is on your mind.
Chris Zizzo


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
To: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>; "Chris Zizzo"
<busyboy@...>
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: A/F Tranformers


> Has anyone thought of adding a "Kill" switch to the track wiring. Also
handy
> as a "PANIC" button when things go really wrong. I also like to add a push
> button full votage line for rapid cycling of the reverse unit. This can be
> wired around the "Kill" button too, to make life easier.
> S'
> David D.
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17734 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Troublesome Guilford
Hi All,

I've got a real stumper on my hands! I have a #776 Animated Guilford Station I can't get to work properly. I've reglued the mat down. The mat looks to be in just as good condition as my Stockyard mat. The coil was rewound and is to spec. It looks like the same size as the Stockyard coil, so I swapped them. The mat still doesn't vibrate enough to propel the people very well (Guilford coil works great in Stockyard tho'). I tried cows in the station instead of people, thinking the pads on the people might be worn. I took out and replaced and adjusted the coil every way possible. It just won't vibrate the mat enough. I tried it off my 30B 18V terminal. Nope. Should I rewind the coil yet again with a larger gauge wire than spec? Is there a larger coil I could try? I'm also thinking maybe the sheet metal base is just too old to transmit the vibrations correctly. Don't know what else to try. Any suggestions would be welcomed.

Thanks,
Tim



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17735 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: noisy K5
Both wheel bearing and gear centering are important, as well as the smoke
unit gear. The steamers rely on the shoulder molded into the wheel centers
for gear alignment. I have found an engine or two where I had to add a shim
as a "side thrust" bearing to center the drive axle.
I am finding more steamer chassis needing rebushing than I recall from the
past. As with the diesels, this should be done with some precision machinery
(at least that's the excuse I'm giving Linda for needing a mill!)--right now
I have to "borrow" one when my friend's shop isn't busy! That is getting old
fast!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17736 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: A/F Tranformers
ROFL!

I'd better learn a second language. Hmm,
WOOF! WOOF!
I was thinking of GOBBLE GOBBLE, but Thanksgiving will be here before ya
know it!
S
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17737 From: Horn, David Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: the future prices of classic toy trains
I too think interest in postwar trains, possibly toy trains in general, will
skip a generation. We're in the throws of a revival and I'm loving it, but
it will be our children's children who pick up the interest in trains to a
level like we '40's-folks and '50's-boomers have it now. Those kids will
want trains like Grandpa used to love. In the meantime, the next gen will
get empathetic towards them, our ranks will thin, and prices will bottom out
before they rise again. Exactly when, who knows. My guess is somewhere
between 10-25 years from now things will be soft in this market. In any
case, I believe it's all the more reason to never get into or purchase toy
trains for financial gain. You'll drive yourself nuts, and when you die, no
one will ever take the painstaking trouble to piece by piece get the maximum
or optimal value out of all the stuff you've hoarded away like trophies.
Just buy 'em cuz you like 'em. Run 'em, display 'em, paint 'em, trade 'em,
whatever, just don't put off having fun with 'em. Memories are all we take
with us when it's all over. TJ, by the way, once forwarded me a great
article he wrote on this subject. Unfortunately none of the pubs wanted to
print it, because it threw a shadow on the mystique of "maybe this one'll be
worth a lot someday" - - something some advertisers base their businesses
and prices on. Tom, if it's OK with you, would you share that article with
us. Perhaps with a post to Paul's web site? Thanks.
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17738 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: A/F Tranformers
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>


'lock out eliminator eliminator'? Isn't that 'lock out eliminator squared'?

On Sunday it's "Top Fuel Eliminator" . . . Sunday, SUNDAY!!!!! At New York
National Speedway!!!!!!!! See Big Daddy Don
GARRRRRRRRRLLLLLLLIIIIIIITTTTTTSSSSS!

OK, I'm done.

Chris Z.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17739 From: Horn, David Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: 652 and heavyweights
The bidder may have just really wanted that car. As I believe TJ once put
it "a train is worth what you're willing to pay for it". So either spend
that much and enjoy it, or don't and go without it. In either case, be
happy with your decision and move on. There are too many trains and not
enough time to lament about it otherwise.

Or maybe the bidder read the copy in a hurry and thought the auction was for
3 cars, not one. Who knows.

On the subject of those great ACG heavyweights, repro shells are available -
- correct? Seems I've seen recently in S-Gaugian you can get them from
somebody. While not a complete set, at least there's a way to get some
other than paying the price of originals. For me there's nothing like those
bakelite originals. Even if MTH or Flyonel were to make them with new molds,
unless they use Bakelite or some other solid colored material, nothing else
will have that fabulous sheen, depth of color and in many cases a
marbled-look as those that ACG produced.
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17740 From: ron inscho Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: noisy K5
You are right on target. The axel holes / bushings are badly worn. This is
not something you caused to happen. It was already there & Gilbert motor was
able to overcome & hide this. the solution is to try a better chassis if you
have one or put in new bushings
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17741 From: ron inscho Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Troublesome Guilford
The mat was not & should not be glued down . It needs to be free as if
floating to work right
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17742 From: Horn, David Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Guilford station
I haven't a station, but I once spent too many hours on a cattle loader
until getting it to run really well. The mat, however, is not glued down in
the case of the cattle loader. It is attached only to the vibrating plate
in the little shack at the rear of the unit. The keys to great operation
are 1) a flat but easily able to oscillate mat, 2) a strong and well "tuned"
vibrating coil (some have a key to adjust, others without that can be
tweaked by bending the sheet metal between the coil and the points of mat
attachment until you get the right balance between amplitude and frequency
with which the mat vibrates), and most importantly 3) fresh "feet" on the
cows. I found replacement paint pad material to work best, but you need to
cut it at the right angle so the cows go forward with a bias toward the
outside perimeter of the pen. Now they buzz about, stay in an orderly line
with each other, and can't wait to climb up the ramp. Good luck, but IMHO
most ACG accessories can be made to run better than many apparently accept
or expect them to, but it takes patience and some experimentation.
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17743 From: Neimanis,V. [NCR] Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Troublesome Guilford
My only comment is that the mat on my cattle yards and Guilford are not
glued down at all. I can speculate why -- one vibrates the metal and this
is then passed onto the moving mat which then transfers to the velour under
the cows or people.

Hope that may help.

V.Neimanis

_____________________

Message: 20
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 15:05:07 -0500
From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>
Subject: Troublesome Guilford

Hi All,

I've got a real stumper on my hands! I have a #776 Animated Guilford
Station I can't get to work properly. I've reglued the mat down. The mat
looks to be in just as good condition as my Stockyard mat. The coil was
rewound and is to spec. It looks like the same size as the Stockyard coil,
so I swapped them. The mat still doesn't vibrate enough to propel the
people very well (Guilford coil works great in Stockyard tho'). I tried
cows in the station instead of people, thinking the pads on the people might
be worn. I took out and replaced and adjusted the coil every way possible.
It just won't vibrate the mat enough. I tried it off my 30B 18V terminal.
Nope. Should I rewind the coil yet again with a larger gauge wire than
spec? Is there a larger coil I could try? I'm also thinking maybe the
sheet metal base is just too old to transmit the vibrations correctly.
Don't know what else to try. Any suggestions would be welcomed.

Thanks,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17744 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: A/F Tranformers
NURSE!! Meds in Chris room, STAT!

;-)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17745 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1348
For those TCA members just a note that Mr. TCA # 3, Lou Redman passed
away this week. He was a good friend of all toy train people. He will
be missed.

Jerry 77-11644
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17746 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Junker AM Streamliner desired
Greetings:
I am seeking on one American Models' Streamlined car, preferably
with highrail wheels. (Ron has extra Highrail wheels so I can substitute
later if needed.)

The car may be assembled or not. I need the frame, ends and roof intact but
I don't care what experiment failed trying to rearrange windows as these
will be covered by Lazar Horizon's dinner sides. (NO Observation cars.
These have the streamlined ends.)

The car will end up in UP paint so what is on the car now does not matter.

Please contact me off list if you have one I may purchase.
Thorin



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17747 From: gino restivo Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: re , noisy k-5 ?
before you pull it all apart ck the rods for
egged out holes at the ends ....
and then with wires on the motor remove it
and see if you might have bent the shaft
during insttallation ( motor shaft ) your
post read : unsteady operation at low speeds

ps, i you droppeed the motor the magnets
can be easily broken and they will stick / rub
the armature laminations causing noise

if none of this helps , then yes you will need to
rebush the chassis as other response's note
have fun , gino


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17748 From: Horn, David Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Guilford station
One other thing, it helps to have the mat centered well on the base with
about 1/8" clearance around all edges. Otherwise its vibrating gets stymied
agains the rim of the base. Have fun.
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17749 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1348
In a message dated 02/25/2002 1:19:32 PM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> I haven't got that one out sorted out yet. I want to use an American
> Flyer UP Northern tender with it but the number isn't picked out
> yet. I am leaning on 33636 or 4664, but still fielding suggestion
> from anyone that has a good idea. The whole concept is if this was a
> real flyer engine, what number do you think they would have assigned
> to it???
>
>

21141.....Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17750 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: k-line
Clear DayJust got my new K-Line catalog today.....A Big Boy for 399.00....Wonder if we could readjust the wheels to run on " S "....040 for 139.00 With prices like this....Why can't they explore " s "...bob




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17751 From: hcopter52 Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Guilford Station
Ok, so if everything checks out and the people still do not want to
come out of the little walkway at the back of the station, does coil
need replacing. I have tried everything but that. If i want someone
else to check its operation, any suggestions? Thank,John.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17752 From: Fire Wood Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Weekend digest thoughts
Lots of reading material there!
Ebay:
The whole ebay/collector debate will no doubt go on
endlessly as to what is rare, valuable, or otherwise
desirable. People will still want what they want
regardless.
I personally like steam locomotives, probably won't
own a diesel model, but if that Silver Streak AF set
came up in someone's flea market for $25 wouldst thou
not pick it up and run breathless to thy computer?
I like David Horn's angle: buy it if you want it and
have fun with it....which is what I intend to do.

Prototype operation:
Terry's operating clinic sounds interesting. I
remember in the older Brit magazines articles about a
clockwork O scale layout running to timetables with
passenger runs between pick-up freights and railmotor
runs. This layout was based on the old London Midland
& Scottish Railway with locomotives running on
Bassett-Lowke mechanisms. Another was the South
British Railway, another O scale clockwork layout
whose operating session was not over till "empty"
freight cars had been worked back to their points of
origin after the "revenue" run. Anyone running Flyer
layouts on fast clocks?

Regards,
Dave W.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17753 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1348
In a message dated 02/25/2002 1:19:32 PM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> Speaking of "Kill" and "PANIC",
> doesn't duck hunting season open soon?
> This could be what is on your mind.
> Chris Zizzo
>
>
>

Duck season just ended you goofball......It's now Rabbit season....


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17754 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Guilford station
Hi,

Where I got the 'glue it down' business was from the Spring 1989 issue of CTT, where Bill Ahrens clearly states in his article titled American Flyer's NO. K771 Operating Stockyard and Car, [concerning the car] "Check the floor to see that the paper material is securely in place. If the paper is loose, glue it back down." and [concerning the stockyard] "Don't forget to check the paper in the stockyard and on the ramp. Once again, either glue it down or replace it." Ouch!!! Well, I was able to unglue it with baby powder. I did find that the little rubber feet attached to the coil arms that vibrate the mat were loose, so I did glue them down. I figure they must be firmly attached to the mat to vibrate it. The station is working - almost now. Still not right, tho'. I'll try your idea about making sure the mat is centered. I got a feeling that this piece is going up for auction on eBay. It's just too persnickety. I'll have to disclose the problems when I list it - got to deal fairly.

Thank you for all your help,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Horn, David" <david.horn@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 3:34 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] RE: Guilford station


> I haven't a station, but I once spent too many hours on a cattle loader
> until getting it to run really well. The mat, however, is not glued down in
> the case of the cattle loader. It is attached only to the vibrating plate
> in the little shack at the rear of the unit. The keys to great operation
> are 1) a flat but easily able to oscillate mat, 2) a strong and well "tuned"
> vibrating coil (some have a key to adjust, others without that can be
> tweaked by bending the sheet metal between the coil and the points of mat
> attachment until you get the right balance between amplitude and frequency
> with which the mat vibrates), and most importantly 3) fresh "feet" on the
> cows. I found replacement paint pad material to work best, but you need to
> cut it at the right angle so the cows go forward with a bias toward the
> outside perimeter of the pen. Now they buzz about, stay in an orderly line
> with each other, and can't wait to climb up the ramp. Good luck, but IMHO
> most ACG accessories can be made to run better than many apparently accept
> or expect them to, but it takes patience and some experimentation.
> The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
> the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
> contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
> this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
> views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
> the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
> immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
> of this message.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17755 From: Scott Holm Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: rockets and sticky action doors
The plug from the end of Bic type pen fit perfectly into the repro
rocket from Doug Peck. The head was about 1/8" thick and this made the
difference to enable it to cock the mechanism in the 25059 angled
rocket launcher.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17756 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay dreamer of the day
Roger, I am with you on Ray. He is a great guy and a avid collector of
Flyer. I have bought from him in the past, very honest person. He is not a
newcomer to collecting. He has contributed a great deal to the art of
collecting American Flyer over the years. He knows his stuff.
Harwood


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17757 From: Douglass Allen Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: wrinkle paint
A few months ago there was a discussion of wrinkle paint in this forum. Last week I learned that there is a commercial source for it in a pushbutton can. Black only.
www.eastwoodco.com
Item No. 10014Z


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17758 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1348
Duck Season!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17759 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: wrinkle paint
Krylon also carries it. If your local Auto store carries Krylon, you should
be able to get them to order you a can or two. Should be much cheaper than
Eastwood!

Hmm, just found my can of it, this one is labeled: Plasti-kote Wrinkle
Finish #217 Black. I believe Krylon and Plasti-kote are the same company.
S'
David D.
PS, I've been told you can paint the black on, after it dries WELL you can
then overcoat with a green or red or???
Group: S-Trains Message: 17760 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1348
Wabbit Season!!!


David Dewey wrote:

> Duck Season!!!
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17761 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Troublesome Guilford
Have you screwed the station down to the board?
If you have, loosen the screws. If you haven't, then screw it down.
Either it is too well stabilized to vibrate enough, or it is bouncing too
much to get the movement organized. (Think hammer and nail. If the wood was
soft and spongy and loose, you'd never bang your nail in, but if it was
solid and secure, it would be easy.) Either condition is a problem for
vibrator movement.

Chris Zizzo


Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17762 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: 4-6-6-4 Road name & numbers
Fred sed:
>The whole concept is if this was a real flyer engine, what number do you
>think they would have assigned to it???

I think it would have been a 346. In 5 digit I don't know, but this engine
comes from the 3 digit world.

By the way, it looks awesome!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17763 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Ebay Puzzle
Hey Gang,

Help me out here---check this current Ebay sale # 1708269544 ends
tonite; then check these other two completed sales 1705928276 &
1707499778.

........IS THIS ONE/SAME ALCO ITEM SOLD TWICE IN ONE WEEK BY THE SAME SELLER
AND UP FOR SALE AGAIN TODAY BY THE SAME GUY OR AM I .........?

JOHN R
Group: S-Trains Message: 17764 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: 4-6-6-4 Road name & numbers
Can't be a 346, there already is one of them.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


Chris Zizzo wrote:

> Fred sed:
> >The whole concept is if this was a real flyer engine, what number do you
> >think they would have assigned to it???
>
> I think it would have been a 346. In 5 digit I don't know, but this engine
> comes from the 3 digit world.
>
> By the way, it looks awesome!
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17765 From: SSabino39@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer
Are you sure that AF was made by ACG starting in 1946 ? I have a 1939
catalog with AC himself and his famous "Hello Boys" greeting. Or are you just
referring to the start of S gauge ? ACG manufactured O years before S.

Richard S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17766 From: john5513211 Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Insurance for Trains.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to the best
place to buy insurance for model trains AND
what is needed to obtain the insurance.

Any idea as to what it costs?

Thanks.

john mccarthy
Group: S-Trains Message: 17767 From: David A. Highfield Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Insurance for Trains.
John,

Try this firm located in Westminster, Maryland:
Collectibles Insurance Agency can be
reached at info@...
or http://www.collectinsure.com
or 1-888-837-9537

Dave



----- Original Message -----
From: "john5513211" <mccarthy@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 8:53 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Insurance for Trains.


>
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions as to the best
> place to buy insurance for model trains AND
> what is needed to obtain the insurance.
>
> Any idea as to what it costs?
>
> Thanks.
>
> john mccarthy
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17768 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay Puzzle
before we jump all over the fellow....MAYBE HE FOUND 3 EXACTLY THE SAME WITH
THE SAME BROKEN HORN AND WEAR!!!!! I have 3 or 4 cars that look alike...but
minor differences..Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: <JRKRrdd@...>
To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 8:03 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Ebay Puzzle


> Hey Gang,
>
> Help me out here---check this current Ebay sale # 1708269544 ends
> tonite; then check these other two completed sales 1705928276 &
> 1707499778.
>
> ........IS THIS ONE/SAME ALCO ITEM SOLD TWICE IN ONE WEEK BY THE SAME
SELLER
> AND UP FOR SALE AGAIN TODAY BY THE SAME GUY OR AM I .........?
>
> JOHN R
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17769 From: Don Thompson Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: k-line
Dear Bob,
Maury (Kline) can offer prices like that as his market (Zero gauge) has 20X as many customers as in "S".
Don

ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT wrote:

> Clear DayJust got my new K-Line catalog today.....A Big Boy for 399.00....Wonder if we could readjust the wheels to run on " S "....040 for 139.00 With prices like this....Why can't they explore " s "...bob
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 17770 From: notcoldenough Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Replacement Mohair for cattle / people
I needed replacement mohair for the people for my Guilford station.
I've previously used the paint brush pad "mohair", but its nap is
almost too long.

So I went to Joanne Fabrics tonight (train collecting takes a guy to
strange places!). I found some one inch wide elastic ribbon that
had a short directional nap on it. Even though the nap was a little
shorter than the original Flyer mohair, it worked very well when I
tried in on Guilford station people. The people had no problem
climbing out of the dip in the station. It cost $3 per yard and came
in various colors.

The most exciting aspect of this shopping trip was watching the
reaction of the staff at the fabric store after I answered their
question as to what I was going to use the ribbon for - "I need it to
glue to the bottom of peoples feet so they can vibrate in circles at
the train station". Guess I should have told them it was a toy train
station!

John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 17771 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay Puzzle
The picture is the same in each listing, & there is a relisting link in
each but the last. The bidders for most part were not the same. Just my 2
cents. Mike S.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17772 From: Roger Hinds Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: engine bearings
The following info. is for train repair.
In regards to drilling holes in general. A drill isn't reliable for drilling a
perfect round hole. If the hole needs to be perfect. first drill the hole about .005
undersize. Then use a reamer to finish the hole to the desired size.
Drilling for a shaft that turns? Depending on the diameter, the shaft should be no
less than .002 of the hole size.
A shaft gets warm as it is spinning and thus expands and
will seize up in a hole that is to small to allow for the shaft expanding. The larger
the
shaft the larger the difference in the hole to shaft clearance. If you need a tight
fit then
you must resort to roller bearings.
Slot car bearings would be great for loco axel shafts. A tight fit with no
friction.


IronHorse.

PS I have been off line since Feb. 7. Computer failure.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17773 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: rockets and sticky action doors
Be careful dealing with rockets for the angled vs. vertical styles. The
latch mechanism is totally different:
Vertical needs the hole in the center of the tube kept clear to latch.
Angled doesn't need the hole clear to latch.
The same rocket will work in both cars but he fins must not contact
before latching- which means the fins can't set too close to the rocket
tail end, cause its the tail end that actuates the latch.


Scott Holm wrote:
>
> The plug from the end of Bic type pen fit perfectly into the repro
> rocket from Doug Peck. The head was about 1/8" thick and this made the
> difference to enable it to cock the mechanism in the 25059 angled
> rocket launcher.

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17774 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: THROTTLE HANDLES
Anyone have a pair of Org. Deadman throttle handles they would like to
part with for $ or ? Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17775 From: Mike Vana Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Gilbert decals
Tom Jarcho asked:

Does anyone know if Gilbert used decal setting solution on its diesel
body
decals?

I can't give you a definite answer about AF itself, but I
would doubt it. Granted there are different decal solutions,
but if you do use one on AF equipment, be careful. I forget
which brand I used (probably Microscale though), but when
putting replacement nose decals on a 21910 (blue and yellow
Santa Fe PA1) once, it discolored the blue paint, and that
spot is still easy to notice.

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17776 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Guilford station
Remember that Flyer stockyard ads from the period said sometimes you
have to prod the ornery critters just like real ones. That tells me
they never did work flawlessly. I'm sure gluing down stockyard pads is
bad. Don't know about Guilford station.

Tim Brown wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Where I got the 'glue it down' business was from the Spring 1989 issue of CTT, where Bill Ahrens clearly states in his article titled American Flyer's NO. K771 Operating Stockyard and Car, [concerning the car] "Check the floor to see that the paper material is securely in place. If the paper is loose, glue it back down." and [concerning the stockyard] "Don't forget to check the paper in the stockyard and on the ramp. Once again, either glue it down or replace it." Ouch!!! Well, I was able to unglue it with baby powder. I did find that the little rubber feet attached to the coil arms that vibrate the mat were loose, so I did glue them down. I figure they must be firmly attached to the mat to vibrate it. The station is working - almost now. Still not right, tho'. I'll try your idea about making sure the mat is centered. I got a feeling that this piece is going up for auction on eBay. It's just too persnickety. I'll have to disclose the problems when I list it - got to
> deal fairly.
>
> Thank you for all your help,
> Tim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Horn, David" <david.horn@...>
> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 3:34 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] RE: Guilford station
>
> > I haven't a station, but I once spent too many hours on a cattle loader
> > until getting it to run really well. The mat, however, is not glued down in
> > the case of the cattle loader. It is attached only to the vibrating plate
> > in the little shack at the rear of the unit. The keys to great operation
> > are 1) a flat but easily able to oscillate mat, 2) a strong and well "tuned"
> > vibrating coil (some have a key to adjust, others without that can be
> > tweaked by bending the sheet metal between the coil and the points of mat
> > attachment until you get the right balance between amplitude and frequency
> > with which the mat vibrates), and most importantly 3) fresh "feet" on the
> > cows. I found replacement paint pad material to work best, but you need to
> > cut it at the right angle so the cows go forward with a bias toward the
> > outside perimeter of the pen. Now they buzz about, stay in an orderly line
> > with each other, and can't wait to climb up the ramp. Good luck, but IMHO
> > most ACG accessories can be made to run better than many apparently accept
> > or expect them to, but it takes patience and some experimentation.
> > The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
> > the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
> > contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
> > this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
> > views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
> > the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
> > immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
> > of this message.
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17777 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer
Richard,
Ah, yes, S gauge, although the prewar stuff became 3/16 scale, O Gauge
after ACG bought the company. I forget the year, but think he bought around
1936.
Good point!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17778 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: 4-6-6-4 Road name & numbers
Hmm, I checked the books, 385 would work, and be right if you have a smoke
unit and a whistle! It also bears tribute to UP 3985, the currently
operating Challenger.
In the 5 digit world, I'd go for 21185, also still in the steam engine part
of the number system (actually 385 isn't, it's in the Diesel section)
Ain't we having fun yet???
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17779 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: E-BAY PUZZLE
awbrown says he even has a few more. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17780 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Guilford Station
Hi All,

Thanks to all for the splendid suggestions on the Guilford Station. There really was the voice of experience and knowledge in the replies. I've listed it for sale on eBay. Here's the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1709082878

I strived to give an honest account of it's condition. It does work, just not very well. I want to be honest, but not self-destructive. Maybe someone else can do the fine-tuning it needs. I don't want an accessory on my layout that is as finicky as this one. If anyone out there thinks I didn't give a full disclosure, based on my S-list inquiries, please let me know. EBay allows the seller to add comments.

Thanks,
Tim

P.S. This isn't a sales pitch for someone on the list to buy this item. Still, if you MUST have it and meet the reserve...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17781 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: E-BAY Puzzle
OK The word from the seller is that he had/has a whole case of them (18)
still has some left. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17782 From: Peter Ervin Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Train oriented family resort
It's my turn to plan our extended family's Spring 2003 family get
together. We pick a place in the middle Atlantic states. The age range of
those attending is from 4 to 60. Does anyone know of a nice resort located
at or close to a train place?

Pete in Cumberland, MD
Group: S-Trains Message: 17783 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: 4-6-6-4 Road name & numbers
Is a 346 a switch engine? Like 342?
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17784 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Road numbers for Challenger project
Hey all, lots of great suggestions so far. I'm leaning towards either
385 for a 3 digit number (don't have a whistle yet but will a double
choo count ; -) or 21185 for a five digit number. Any other
suggestions out there?
Thanks for participating all
Fred
Group: S-Trains Message: 17785 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: 4-6-6-4 Road name & numbers
Your're right Chris they are both 0-8-0's
Group: S-Trains Message: 17786 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Silly Wabbit!
>Duck season just ended you goofball......It's now Rabbit season....

Oh, well, maybe his VW should be nervous.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17787 From: ironhors@swbell.net Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: 652 and heavyweights
"Horn, David" wrote:

> The bidder may have just really wanted that car. As I believe TJ once put
> it "a train is worth what you're willing to pay for it". So either spend
> that much and enjoy it, or don't and go without it. In either case, be
> happy with your decision and move on. There are too many trains and not
> enough time to lament about it otherwise.
>
> Or maybe the bidder read the copy in a hurry and thought the auction was for
> 3 cars, not one. Who knows.
>
> On the subject of those great ACG heavyweights, repro shells are available -
> - correct? Seems I've seen recently in S-Gaugian you can get them from
> somebody. While not a complete set, at least there's a way to get some
> other than paying the price of originals. For me there's nothing like those
> bakelite originals. Even if MTH or Flyonel were to make them with new molds,
> unless they use Bakelite or some other solid colored material, nothing else
> will have that fabulous sheen, depth of color and in many cases a
> marbled-look as those that ACG produced.
> The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
> the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
> contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
> this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
> views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
> the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
> immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
> of this message.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

This is the first I have heard of shells being available. If the price is
reasonable, maybe some of us who were cutting and stretching them back in the 1970s
can get with it again???????????
Group: S-Trains Message: 17788 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: E-Bay Puzzle
OK--now I understand

This guy could have been a Quality control line worker at the ACG plant when
the recall affected these PAs--he made off with the rejects? The horn man
must have taken a break or broke the horns he was installing that day?
Makes sense now.

John R
Group: S-Trains Message: 17789 From: Wayne Zebron Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: 474 PA
Hi,

I picked up a 474/475 PA that needs a bit of work. I have cleaned out the
old lub from the motors and started to reassemble. In the process I noticed
that one of the rubber tires is cracked and has actually has part of it
chipped off. Is is ok to just remove all the rubber? I know I would lose
traction, but would the train still run? Any other drawbacks?

Thanks in advance,
Wayne
Group: S-Trains Message: 17790 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: 4-6-6-4 Road name & numbers
Just about the same only $300 different. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17791 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: 4-6-6-4 Road name & numbers
Chris,
Yes, 346 is an 0-8-0, like the 343, only with a whistle, and usually a 4
position sensitive reverse unit on the motor, but later with the first of
the 2 position units. Very short production run. Later 0-8-0 is the 21145,
no whistle.Also very short production run.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17792 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Replacement Mohair for cattle / people
John,
Hmm, people look funny at me when I go into stores now too! Another
source for mohair is the old car group. Hmm. Just remembered I have a roll
of mohair around here somewhere for a car we no longer have. I'll check it
out sometime, see if it is the right "nap" although it's a dark green/brown
color.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17793 From: Dan Brindell Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Train oriented family resort
Check out Willow Valley Resort at www.willowvalley.com.
It is located near Lancaster, PA and has quite a few neat things to do for
kids. It is also quite close to Strasburg, PA, which has the Strasburg
Railroad, the Railroad Musuem of PA, the Toy Train Museum, the Red Caboose
Motel, and so on. But if you live in Cumberland, you probably know this
already, right?

Dan B.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Ervin" <pjervin@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 2:05 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Train oriented family resort


> It's my turn to plan our extended family's Spring 2003 family get
> together. We pick a place in the middle Atlantic states. The age range
of
> those attending is from 4 to 60. Does anyone know of a nice resort
located
> at or close to a train place?
>
> Pete in Cumberland, MD
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17794 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Train oriented family resort
Hmm,
I think you should come out to California, Dunsmuir to be exact and stay
at Cave Springs, in one of the 1920s cabins. Trains across the canyon,
fishing almost at your back door, Bocie ball court, Jacuzzi, pool, nearby
tennis courts, Mt Shasta to climb. McCloud River RR Dinner train 1/2 hour
away, Yreka Western an hour away, What else could you want. BTW, your host
would be Louie Dewey.
Yeah, we're related!
You can even walk a block down the street and look at Southern Pacific mogul
1727, my sentimentally favorite engine.
! 888-235-2721
www.cavesprings.com

S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17795 From: Peter Ervin Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Chuck's fool quote
>This is off topic, but we see Chuck Smith's signature quote a lot:

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

I always thought Lincoln said that, using there words: "It is better to
remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

Can anyone out there solve this puzzle?

Pete in Cumberland, MD
Group: S-Trains Message: 17796 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay Puzzle
Nope,
This guy probably bought a box of them at the Lionel Factory auction.
Horns got broken in handling, maybe at the factory, so were waiting for
rework when the shut-down word came along. Probably got the whole box for
$100! Man, wish I coulda gone to that auction--heaven for CHEAP! guys like
me! I understand one day was $1 an item in one room.
S'
David D.
PS Anyone with first-hand reports? Inquiring minds want to know! Ya know
those L collector people could care less about our AF stuff! ;-)
Group: S-Trains Message: 17797 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Train oriented family resort
Dave Dewey is right about Dunsmuir. I have been through there many many
times. At one time thought about moving there. The town is RAILROAD. Up to
your eyeballs in winter but who cares when you can play with trains. You
really have to see this town & the cabins Louie has there. Mike S.
PS on a clear day you can see Mike's Comet from there


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17798 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Another one of those dumb questions...
Here goes, why do early post war engines have the little brass buttons
on the bottom of the chassis? Was this to activate some type of
accessory or track trip?
Thanks all
Fred
Group: S-Trains Message: 17799 From: Peter Ervin Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: When did ACG buy AF?
David Dewey said he thought ACG bought AF around 1936. In his book, The
Man Who Lives in Paradise, (Henry, Holt and Company, 1954, now published by
Heimburger House) ACG talks about W. O. Coleman visiting his game preserve
late in 1937 for a little shooting. Coleman was the head of the American
Flyer Corporation. After hunting, Coleman suggested that the A. C. Gilbert
Company take over AF. ACG initially turned down the offer at $600,000. As
ACG drove Coleman to the station for his return trip home, Coleman
suggested Gilbert buy the company based just on royalties. ACG turned the
car around and entered into serious negotiations with Coleman. The book
does not specify the final details of the sale or the date of the
sale. Gilbert goes on to say that "As it turned out, it was one of the
very best ventures I ever entered into."

I wonder how the world of model trains would be today if W. O. Coleman
hadn't been a hunter?

Less than 5% of Gilbert's book goes into American Flyer, but it is a wonder
book just the same. He describes a salmon fishing trip to Alaska that is a
gem of writing.

Pete, Cumberland, MD

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17800 From: David Dewey Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Another one of those dumb questions...
Yes, the brass buttons were to activate accessories. The "trip" had two
strips that the buttons contacted and closed the circuit. I've never seen a
trip, just the catalog illustrations!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17801 From: jahoozdumm Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Re: Another one of those dumb questions..
Fred wrote:

>why do early post war engines have the little brass buttons
>on the bottom of the chassis? Was this to activate some type of
>accessory or track trip?


Nothing dumb about that.

Yes. The buttons were supposed to close a circuit connected to a 695
track trip. The trip was basically two metal strips mounted in line
between the rails. Check the book "A.C. Gilbert's Heritage" by
Heimburger House publishing, pgs. 38 & 39. It has pix as well.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17802 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: numbering a 4-6-6-4
In a message dated 02/25/2002 6:36:57 PM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> Fred sed:
> >The whole concept is if this was a real flyer engine, what number do you
> >think they would have assigned to it???
>
> I think it would have been a 346. In 5 digit I don't know, but this engine
> comes from the 3 digit world.
>
> By the way, it looks awesome!
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
> If they numbered it 346 what would we do about our 0-8-0's with that
> number?
> It would surely have been a 5 digit number and I vote for 21141....So
> there..
> Seen a Dr. Lately Chris??


>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17803 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/25/2002
Subject: Train Insurance
In a message dated 02/25/2002 9:42:34 PM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> Does anyone have any suggestions as to the best
> place to buy insurance for model trains AND
> what is needed to obtain the insurance.
>
> Any idea as to what it costs?
>
> Thanks.
>
> john mccarthy
>
>
> Just call your agent that insures your home. He can add any additional
> coverage that you may need and it's a lot cheaper than the specialty
> companies.


Steve



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17804 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: The Dewey House
>I have a roll of mohair around here somewhere.
>Just found some more boxes with parts donors and projects!
>Gads, when did I get all this stuff???
>Still haven't found my bushings. Gotta be here somewhere!

Hmmm. From the tenor of your last few missives, David, I'm starting to
understand why you need a bigger house!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17805 From: Horn, David Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: Spring 2003 Family outing
Try Strasburg PA. Great Amish country setting, operating steam train, RR
Museum of PA, TCA HQ, Red Caboose Motel (sleep in a converted caboose),
etc. http://www.strasburgrailroad.com/
http://www.strasburgpa.com/strasbg_att.html You'll be in RR Heaven, and
your family will enjoy themselves too. In addition to the train, try a
buggy ride, but get a drive who can tell you about the Amish culture and way
of life as you ride. Verrrry interesting. We rode out from the Red
Caboose. Our driver was formerly Amish. Still has lots of respect for
them, but could describe things from "both sides of the fence".
The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for
the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the
contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in
this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not
the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc.
immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies
of this message.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17806 From: Hannon Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Ebay Featured Auctions Categories
Has anyone noticed that there is no Featured Auctions
section in the Model RR section anymore? It seems
they've disappeared since the new Tabs were put in.


Bob Hannon
Group: S-Trains Message: 17807 From: Michael Greene Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: Insurance for Trains.
The NMRA offers an insurance option to its members. At the time I purchased
mine, the NMRA's arrangement was with American Collectibles Insurance Inc.
The standard option is for $10,000 unscheduled, rate $75 per year. More
information can be obtained from the NMRA. I also have some insurance on
some other collectibles on my homeowner's policy, but they required the
collectibles be scheduled (listed).

Michael

At 01:53 AM 2/26/2002 +0000, john5513211 wrote:


>Does anyone have any suggestions as to the best
>place to buy insurance for model trains AND
>what is needed to obtain the insurance.
>
>Any idea as to what it costs?
>
>Thanks.
>
>john mccarthy

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Greene Dunstable, MA, USA
Member: NMRA, NASG, Bristol S-Gaugers, NTRAK, TCA, The 470 Railroad Club

Bristol S Gaugers http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com
National Assoc. of S Gaugers http://www.nasg.org
Maine Railroads (including DCC Corner) http://www.mainerailroads.org

need a good web hosting service? see http://www.fivebuckhost.com/?r=mgreenej
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Group: S-Trains Message: 17808 From: David Dewey Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay Featured Auctions Categories
Also seems to be no "ending today" feature, which made my "window shopping"
much easier!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17809 From: David Dewey Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: Insurance for Trains.
Considering the big debate on condition and value that exists, I would think
a video record of one's collection could be quite valuable in any claim
collection.
I have some still photos, but not of everything. . . .(do as I say, not as I
do!)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17810 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: TCA qusetion
Hi all, I've seen the acronym TCA and a grading scales associated
with it pop up now and then. What exactly is TCA? My guess is that
it stands for Train Collectors Association, if so what are the
advantages to belonging to them?
Thanks,
Fred
Group: S-Trains Message: 17811 From: hcopter52 Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA Question
Good question Fred, I also would like to know the advantages of
joining this group. I have met some who are very knowledgable. John.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17812 From: Michael Greene Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA qusetion
Perhaps their web site will help with some of your questions...

http://www.traincollectors.org

Michael

At 05:37 PM 2/26/2002 +0000, lbdrummer3 wrote:
>Hi all, I've seen the acronym TCA and a grading scales associated
>with it pop up now and then. What exactly is TCA? My guess is that
>it stands for Train Collectors Association, if so what are the
>advantages to belonging to them?
>Thanks,
>Fred

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Greene Dunstable, MA, USA
Member: NMRA, NASG, Bristol S Gaugers, NTRAK, TCA, The 470 Railroad Club

Bristol S Gaugers http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com
National Assoc. of S Gaugers http://www.nasg.org
Maine Railroads (including DCC Corner) http://www.mainerailroads.org

need a good web hosting service? see http://www.fivebuckhost.com/?r=mgreenej
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Group: S-Trains Message: 17813 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA question
Thanks Michael. Does anyone know if there is a Southern California
chapter? I looked but couldn't find any.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17814 From: Rhett T. George Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: PANIC
- Greetings -

Dewey D. (those initials are the same as those of my sister's given names.)
asked about panic buttons. The Carolinas Division of Atlantic Coast S
Gaugers has been using panic buttons for about a year, now. Black buttons
for the outer loop, red for the inner. Reset is done at the transformer
corner, panic stops from the other three corners. Members benefit from
fewer bruises and sprains incurred when diving past other members while
trying to reach the transformers.

Yelling "Breakaway" not only raises the averaged noise level but causes
trains on the two nearest modular layouts to stop, also.

Cheer`S'
Rhett
Group: S-Trains Message: 17815 From: Gill W. Lott Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA qusetion
After visiting the Web-Site I gues the question about 'S' production is answered.
'S' sold out / 'O' still available (yeah, there are 300 more 'O's units made,
buttttt vendors take notice!)

>>> Michael Greene <pinetreerr@...> 2/26/02 12:53:02 PM >>>
Perhaps their web site will help with some of your questions...

http://www.traincollectors.org

Michael

At 05:37 PM 2/26/2002 +0000, lbdrummer3 wrote:
>Hi all, I've seen the acronym TCA and a grading scales associated
>with it pop up now and then. What exactly is TCA? My guess is that
>it stands for Train Collectors Association, if so what are the
>advantages to belonging to them?
>Thanks,
>Fred

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Greene Dunstable, MA, USA
Member: NMRA, NASG, Bristol S Gaugers, NTRAK, TCA, The 470 Railroad Club

Bristol S Gaugers http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com
National Assoc. of S Gaugers http://www.nasg.org
Maine Railroads (including DCC Corner) http://www.mainerailroads.org

need a good web hosting service? see http://www.fivebuckhost.com/?r=mgreenej
----------------------------------------------------------------------------



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17816 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA question
THERE WILL BE A TCA MEET IN OAKLAND, CA. ON MARCH 9, 2002....CALL MARK BOYD
AT 510-886-6699 FOR DIRECTIONS...THEY WILL HELP YOU GET IN AND I WOULD
STRONGLY RECCOMMEND JOINING...I HAVE BEEN A MEMBER SINCE 1983....MY TCA NO
IS 83-10382
IF YOU WANT TO LIST ME AS A SIGNER UPPER REFERENCE......ARCADIA, CA WILL BE
NOV 24, 2002......BOB CONNER
----- Original Message -----
From: "lbdrummer3" <lbdrummer3@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 1:26 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: TCA question


> Thanks Michael. Does anyone know if there is a Southern California
> chapter? I looked but couldn't find any.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17817 From: hcopter52 Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA question.
Ok, I have looked through the TCA web site(thanks to the sender). I
do not collect or operate tinplate, strictly post-war flyer from 46-
about 60. Would I not get more out of the NASG than the TCA?
Opinions? Thanks to all,John.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17818 From: ron inscho Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA question. & NASG
> The 46 to 60 flyer trains are tinplate & as for which to join ? Why not
join both ? You will be pleased as both have things of interest to all S
gaugers. Ron Inscho
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17819 From: hcopter52 Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: TCA & NASG
Thank you so much Ron. I guess I only thought I knew what tinplate
was. Maybe someone had better explain the term to me. Never thought
of my flyer as tinplate, only diecast. I guess i am more confused
than I thought! Is that the material or the process used to make
them. Any TCA chapter near Chicago? Thanks again Ron and take
care,John.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17820 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: PANIC
Hi,
I believe there is a switch that can be used for both Panic &
reversing. It breaks the circuit when thrown upwards and springs back to
center, when thrown downwards it cuts power and stays in that position. Mike
S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17821 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA question.
Are there any members of the TTOS on this list? They are a pretty good
group. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17822 From: ron inscho Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA & NASG
Yes as well detailed & as good as it looks our American Flyer trains are
still tinplate . The name tinplate comes from the early days when the trains
track & all were made from tinplated steel our trains are an advanced form
of tinplate but tinplate none the less.
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17823 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA question.
Hi,

I too operate post-war Flyer and consider it to be quasi-tin-plate. I think you would do very well to join the NASG. I did just that at the national convention in Scranton, PA last summer. Haven't regretted it one minute. The convention was a wonderful learning experience and got me warmed up to build my first Flyer layout. There were so many different 'venues' to explore; Flyer, high rail and scale S gauge. Just talking with the guys was very helpful and informative. Flyer is a subset of the S gauge genre. The NASG offers a club that is a pure concept - fun with S gauge trains.

The TCA is much broader and a Flyer enthusiast might feel a little lost. Still, the TCA sponsors the mother of all train shows twice a year in York, PA. IMHO, that would be worth the membership dues itself.

Personally, I joined both. Why not? The dues won't break anybody's budget and the upside gain is unbound.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 2:29 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: TCA question.


> Ok, I have looked through the TCA web site(thanks to the sender). I
> do not collect or operate tinplate, strictly post-war flyer from 46-
> about 60. Would I not get more out of the NASG than the TCA?
> Opinions? Thanks to all,John.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17824 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA & NASG
Yes, you are absolutely right. Flyer is classified as tin-plate. I use the term quasi-tin-plate 'cuz of all the plastic stuff. Just my idiosyncrasy.

-Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: "ron inscho" <ronnat@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] TCA & NASG


> Yes as well detailed & as good as it looks our American Flyer trains are
> still tinplate . The name tinplate comes from the early days when the trains
> track & all were made from tinplated steel our trains are an advanced form
> of tinplate but tinplate none the less.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17825 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA question.
NASG, ---Yes Sir, Alot of insights, and help to keep'm running as many
people are hi-rail operators that run their trans alot.

On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 19:29:49 -0000 "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
writes:
> Ok, I have looked through the TCA web site(thanks to the sender). I
> do not collect or operate tinplate, strictly post-war flyer from 46-
> about 60. Would I not get more out of the NASG than the TCA?
> Opinions? Thanks to all,John.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17826 From: hcopter52 Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: TCA & NASG
Thanks to all for your info and suggestions. I will probably join
both but need to find sponsors in the area. Their web site should
give me that help. What are these expressions i see all the time-IMHO
and please explain Hi-Rail. Is that what flyer track is considered? I
am learning alot today. Dont know if i will ever be able to think of
my trains as tinplate tho! Thanks again to all,John.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17827 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: COLORING SMOKE FLUID
I have a question for anyone that might have an answer. I have had a
request to have my smoke fluid produce black smoke. Anybody have any ideas?
Zizzo I think you might be of help on this. Do the studios ever color their
"Fog"? Thank you Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17828 From: Gary Chidester Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Spare Jan/Feb. S-Gaugian?
Pardon me, but could someone spare a Jan/Feb S-Gaugian?

My local shop is closing and I had been purchasing each issue from him.
when I found out he no longer was carrying and I started my own subscription
I have missed the Jan/Feb issue. I will gladly pay for the issue and
shipping!

Please contact me @ garychidester@...

Thanks!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17829 From: David Dewey Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID
Black Smoke?? Ewwww, bad firing practice!!! ya get "unpaid vacations" for
that stuff!
:-)
Seriously though, I had some fluid that came in various scents, one of which
was "coal." It was a bit too much realism for almost everyone! I'd imagine
"diesel exhaust" would also be a "scent too far" ! (some O units also have
smoke--watch a real Alco sometime, you'll see why!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17830 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay Puzzle
In a message dated 2/25/2002 11:17:59 PM Central Standard Time,
djdewey@... writes:


> Nope,
> This guy probably bought a box of them at the Lionel Factory auction.
> Horns got broken in handling, maybe at the factory, so were waiting for
> rework when the shut-down word came along. Probably got the whole box for
> $100! Man, wish I coulda gone to that auction--heaven for CHEAP! guys like
> me! I understand one day was $1 an item in one room.
> S'
> David D.
> PS Anyone with first-hand reports? Inquiring minds want to know! Ya know
> those L collector people could care less about our AF stuff! ;-)

Oops, forgive me--did I ever get an education on this one. I was joking
about the ACG factory---I should have known; yep---Detroit = Lionel
Factory. I thought of bidding on that Alco when the first auction I saw came
up--not realizing that the number board on it's side meant Flyonel (at first
I thought it was ACG stuff)--I could really use another A for my AB! Then I
see a repeat auction of the exact dang thing and then another repeat auction
a 3rd time inside 10 days.
Yep, I sure would have liked to be the kid on the block who could routinely
visit the ACG dumpster years ago or go to the "irregulars" sale day near that
factory. As it was, I probably paid more than real market price for some of
the used AF stuff I own--luckily, that all took place more than 25 years
ago----and time heals all wounds in this case. Thanks for your response.
PS--
Should one write to DT or RB to see if they have any "irregulars" sales in
S???? 1/2 off, too, for sure?---or a 2 for 1 sale or ? (I just did get a
flyer from a midwest hobby shop having a "Mid-Winter Blowout Sale"---33% off
on S stuff, very appealing, but I don't feel up to driving 320 RT miles next
weekend for a sale).
Now, do I really think this guy had a box of these Alcos? What I need is to
get on that special sales list (kinda like those flyers that went around on
the Enron deal when those Enron Execs got pressured to sell that stock, they
couldn't resist those great special prices!!-----help me out on that--how did
I go wrong here?

John R


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17831 From: David Dewey Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA & NASG
Well, time for me to butt in!
Yep, NASG is a great move. TCA or TTOS are OK too, depending on your
local chapter. Out here, the TTOS Sacramento chapter has quite a few S
people in it, but meets on Saturdays, and I work, so I gave up membership,
as the national mag didn't really have much in it of interest (honestly, I
have seen better chapter newsletters, but I'm not volunteering to become
Editor!).
Tinplate, hmm. Methinks that time has changed the collection side of
this hobby enough to require a rethinking of names or groupings. When some
of these clubs started, all that was collected was tin and die-cast stuff
from before WW2--everyone was still buying new, and operating what we now
collect! I believe Tinplate should refer to only tin constructed stuff with
its accompanying Locomotives (which are often cast metal). The plastic and
die cast stuff we S guys use should be Toy Trains, perhaps categorized as
"Post-war to 1960" or something like that (early post-war?). The L
collection guides use this sort of description. I dunno what to do about the
tinplate Marx that was made clear to their first end of production--and the
few AF tinplate S cars though!
So what say the rest of you??
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17832 From: Dan Brindell Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA & NASG
The term "tinplate" is VERY confusing. Back in the 1920's and 1930's, toy
trains were made of stamped, tin-plated steel, usually with a design painted
on. Hence the name tinplate.

Post-war trains are generally NOT made of tin-plated steel, rather they are
made of die-cast metal or plastic. However, they are still sometimes called
tinplate, to distinguish them from more realistic "scale" models. Hence
postwar Flyer is sometimes called "tinplate", even if little or no
tin-plated steel is used.

Dan B.

----- Original Message -----
From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 2:44 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] TCA & NASG


> Thank you so much Ron. I guess I only thought I knew what tinplate
> was. Maybe someone had better explain the term to me. Never thought
> of my flyer as tinplate, only diecast. I guess i am more confused
> than I thought! Is that the material or the process used to make
> them. Any TCA chapter near Chicago? Thanks again Ron and take
> care,John.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17833 From: David Dewey Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay Puzzle
Hi John,
I understand SHS does have a "customer appreciation day" when some
oddities are sold, but ya gotta be there! Hmm, loooong ways from CA!
The Factory auction was a one-time deal. I don't know what it took to be
a bidder, way outa my league! I have seen some interesting things go up on
eBay recently from that auction--paint masks, original Gilbert art work (I
guess L bought more than the name and tooling back in '67), body shells.
Before this, some stuff had already gotten out, I have three Daylight Dome
car bodies all painted, but never assembled to any parts that I got two
years ago. Supposedly there were/are a lot of bodies laying about as there
was a shortage of trucks to go with them.
I personally think it's really sad that the art work is going piecemeal
"to the winds," I think it should be in a central place, a museum or archive
where it can be cared for and shown and studied, so all can enjoy it,
instead of just whomever goes into the owner's personal gallery.
BTW, someone sent me an "appeal" for helping those poor Enron executives
so they can continue to live in the style to which they have become
accustomed! :-)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17834 From: David Dewey Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Help! ACG Blueprint copies anyone?
I've been working on rebushing ideas for some time now, but the one thing
that would really make the project "right" would be to have the factory
dimensions. I notice there are "Service Station Blueprints" out there--in
fact I just bought a copy of one, but it's not here yet. The one I'm getting
has a wonderful technical drawing of the diesel motor chassis, but no
dimensions. That information, it is obvious, was on a different sheet (the
"tolerances" boxes are lined through on this copy). I don't need an
original, a nice copy would be GREAT! They gotta be out there somewhere,
maybe at the L auction someone bought them???
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17835 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay Puzzle
Not to worry Dave there is a Gilbert Museum somewhere in Cal near you in
that vast valley between the Grapevine & Redding. If I locate their site
again I'll post it. Unless it is already a common known fact. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17836 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA & NASG
Try March 9, 2002 in Addison, Il....contact Chris Rohlfing at
630-279-7235...supposed to be a big meet.....Me...I am going to Perry, Ga.
on sat the 2 nd....Here theres a big Model Airplane and Kit meet....Don't
laugh...One of my Best finds was at a Gun show....Picked up lots of "o"
CHEEEEEP...BTW...I am looking for balsa kits....Speedee bilts, Berkeley,
Cleveland, Etc......Will trade excesssssssss AF...Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 2:44 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] TCA & NASG


> Thank you so much Ron. I guess I only thought I knew what tinplate
> was. Maybe someone had better explain the term to me. Never thought
> of my flyer as tinplate, only diecast. I guess i am more confused
> than I thought! Is that the material or the process used to make
> them. Any TCA chapter near Chicago? Thanks again Ron and take
> care,John.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17837 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID/ AC GILBERT STUFF
Ok I was a few valleys off. it is in Salem Ore. Here is one address to
start with I have 3 but really can't cut & paste that well .Mike S

www.acgilbert.org/ another www.oregonlink.com/gilbert_house/gilb

http://search.aol.com/redirect.adp?appname=qbp&query
This one is for the east coast


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17838 From: Michael Greene Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID
Black smoke would be cool! Imagine those smokin' diesels...

MG

At 06:28 PM 2/26/2002 -0500, anormal1@... wrote:
> I have a question for anyone that might have an answer. I have had a
>request to have my smoke fluid produce black smoke. Anybody have any ideas?
>Zizzo I think you might be of help on this. Do the studios ever color their
>"Fog"? Thank you Mike S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17839 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID
Well, my chemist & product development crew are working on it as we type.
Mike
PS I might have a source of small 9 volt DC smoke units soon For houses,
cabooses & other Smokey places


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17840 From: Don Thompson Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: Tinplate
Are you guys sure it wasn't called tinplate because of the track? Why would you
tinplate steel that you were going to lithograph or paint?
Don

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 17841 From: Al Paolozzi Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: TCA question.
I am a member of the Las Vegas Chapter of TTOS and also a member of TCA. I
used to live in the Seattle area as a TCA member and we had great monthly
meets and lots of Flyer. I joined TTOS when I moved to Pahrump Nevada,
located about 1 hour from Vegas. We do not have a big division and not much
Flyer at all, but it is still a fun group. The TCA meets are in Phoenix,
Arizona or Southern California. Both are a long drive from Pahrump. The
Vegas TTOS is growing and fun. I have enjoyed both organizations. The TTOS
National for 2002 will be in Las Vegas and I am looking forward to that.
Maybe I will meet some of you on this S-group at that meet. Al Paolozzi
----- Original Message -----
From: <anormal1@...>
To: <HCOPTER51@...>; <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: TCA question.


> Are there any members of the TTOS on this list? They are a pretty good
> group. Mike S.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17842 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Spring family outing.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17843 From: Doug Peck Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: 474 PA
<<<One other thing, it helps to have the mat centered well on the base with
about 1/8" clearance around all edges. Otherwise its vibrating gets stymied
agains the rim of the base.>>>

Dave's comment is right-on. Two weeks ago, I spent about an hour trying to
get a stockyard to work right before I noticed that the mat was about 1/8"
too far to one side. The edge of the mat (NOT glued down!) was hitting the
raised metal rim.....result: reduced vibration.
Fix: Loosen the two screws that attach the coil to the base. Adjust the
position of the mat, and retighten the two screws.
Also, make certain that the vertical "feet" on the coil-mount are firmly
inserted into the small rubber vibrating discs, and that the disks are
firmly glued to the mat itself.

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supplies
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours - Weekday Evenings from 7:00 PM to 9:30 PM
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-Free; orders only, please)
http://www.portlines.com
portlines@...


Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supplies
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours - Weekday Evenings from 7:00 PM to 9:30 PM
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-Free; orders only, please)
http://www.portlines.com
portlines@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 17844 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1352
The place you would surely not want to go is Snoqualmie Washington. It's in
the middle of the real ugly Cascade Mountains and has so many steam locos of
all type and ilk that you would really get bored looking at them. The train
ride is really crummy too because of all those trees and lakes and streams
and stuff. I'd recommend the Chicago El..

{8>)........."S"
Group: S-Trains Message: 17845 From: Douglass Allen Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: wrinkle paint
It would appear that Krylon and Plasti-Kote are not related. The Krylon
website www.krylon.com is silent on the subject. The Plasti-Kote website
www.plastikote.com lists "Wrinkle Paint" black only ; and they also list a
"Metallic Hammer Finish" which must be somewhat different, but which also
wrinkles, and comes in silver, gray, and green.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
To: "S Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "Douglass Allen"
<douglass.allen@...>
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] wrinkle paint


> Krylon also carries it. If your local Auto store carries Krylon, you
should
> be able to get them to order you a can or two. Should be much cheaper than
> Eastwood!
>
> Hmm, just found my can of it, this one is labeled: Plasti-kote Wrinkle
> Finish #217 Black. I believe Krylon and Plasti-kote are the same company.
> S'
> David D.
> PS, I've been told you can paint the black on, after it dries WELL you can
> then overcoat with a green or red or???
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17846 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: "tinplate" and "hirail"
"TInplate" is a derogatory term used by scale model railroaders to
distinguish operating toy trains from scale model railroading.

It comes from a time when the hobby industry was working hard to convince
people to abandon their Lionel and Flyer trains in favor of HO scale
models, and later N gauge as well.

But that's OK. I have a name for what they do too and have used it here on
this list.

I call it "ant farm railroading".

Fortunately it isn't practised here.

Tinplate is a term that is no longer used much in that way. It has largely
been replaced by the term "hirail" as the respect level for what we do has
grown. "Hirail" is not derogatory.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17847 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: Tinplate
In a message dated 2/26/02 8:51:27 PM, robin@... writes:

<< Are you guys sure it wasn't called tinplate because of the track? Don >>

Yes, the term originally comes from the tin plating of track to resist
corrosion, but was historically expanded to include the notion of use of
large wheel flanges and oversized rail heights for ease of operation (vide,
Louis Hertz). A perfect scale model that sits atop wheels with oversized
flanges and rails is "tinplate" -- Gilbert S gauge trains are most definitely
"tinplate".

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 17848 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1352
don"t forget the very ugly falls...........DO THEY STILL RUN THAT OLD BEAT
UP MALLET????? BOB
----- Original Message -----
From: <boss31@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1352


> The place you would surely not want to go is Snoqualmie Washington. It's
in
> the middle of the real ugly Cascade Mountains and has so many steam locos
of
> all type and ilk that you would really get bored looking at them. The
train
> ride is really crummy too because of all those trees and lakes and streams
> and stuff. I'd recommend the Chicago El..
>
> {8>)........."S"
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17849 From: David Dewey Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: wrinkle paint
Hmm, needed more research on my part. I have the hammer finish, it is more
like dents in the finish than wrinkles, and silver metalic highlights. Kinda
cool, think it would duplicate maybe the finish on the 110V whistle
controller, etc.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17850 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID
Mike asks:
>I have had a request to have my smoke fluid produce black smoke.
>Do the studios ever color their "Fog"?

Yes they do, in fact, coloring fog is my specialty. I am a lighting
technician. I put a colored gel on the light and point it through the fog
and voila!, colored particles making the air turn purple.
You want black smoke, try a black light! OK, I'm kidding about that part.
No, I have not seen tinted smoke fluid. That does not mean it doesn't
exist.

Obviously, you can't make black smoke with light. You also can't track your
engines all around with lights. I would check the party stores that sell
fog machines, but if they do have such an animal, expect purple or yellow or
red. What party would be improved with black?

Another option; check magic shops. I have only seen plain, clear fluid.
Scents are added sometimes, but I have never seen color. I would be
reticent to add dye to the smoke. It could screw up the machine. There may
be a good reason, too, like the dye does not disperse enough with the fog
liquid to change color in the atomized form. In other words, it might just
not do anything.

Call Rosco. They make the machines for us. Better yet, call
Bash/Production Arts in NYC. They'll know if the product exists and can get
it for you if it does.

Of course, if you mean Flyer smoke fluid, forget it. The process will not
produce black or colored smoke because of the physical principles invoved in
doing it.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17851 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Wrinkle Finish
Greetings, Krylon does/did(?) make a Wrinkle Finish, #3370 Jet Black.
Found it at an independent paint store, a summer back, and used it on a roof
I made for a crossing gate. It took some practice, several (many) attempts,
but if I remember correctly it took three coats applied about 1/2 hour apart
to produce a "wrinkle" similar to an original pattern. Getting depth to
the wrinkle was the hard part and timing the spry seemed to be the key. A
topcoat or two to add depth as needed and it produced a good representation.
Good Luck! Best wishes to all, Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 17852 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/26/2002
Subject: Tinplate question
Tinplate refers to the process used to treat the rails to prevent rust.
Metal trains were not tinplate. They were painted or lithographed, which is
a printing process. Some parts of trains were tinplated, including engine
domes, wheels and detail parts. Usually trains had very little tinplated
steel on them.

After trains became die-cast and then plastic (as well as wood and paper and
a myriad of materials), the tinplated rails lived on. The term came to be
used to differentiate between scale models and toys.

In the current toy train renaissance, the line between scale and toy has
become much more blurred. Today's plastic toys have more details cast in
than many scale models possessed at all only a few years ago. Finely made
add-on parts grace todays toys thus to render them far more wonderful than
any boomer boy could have ever hoped. Often, the only differences between
tinplate and scale are the couplers and the wheels, and even now the
couplers are changing.

The wheels on tinplate trains have oversize flanges that will track poorly
laid rails and knock together sectional layouts. They can hold a train on
tight curves at higher speeds than scale wheels can. They don't look as
"real", but they are compatible with the toys of the post war era. The name
tinplate is fading, though. The advent of stainless steel, nickle silver
and brass rail in our gauge has rendered this term all but obsolete, though
the new rail shares one aspect with it's predecessor. It is tall. Designed
to work with those deep flanges, the tall profile has become known as
High-Rail.

Tinplate; not so much anymore. High-Rail has the new stuff and the tinplate
track covered. Now the term "tinplate" is used to refer to sheet metal
trains of an era which pre-dates cast and molded detailed trains, and not
much else. Terms evolve. They don't always mean the same thing over time.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17853 From: Bente Velapoldi Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Gabe
Hi:
Note that we have had one or two sparse comments about Gabe accessory,
Flyonel vs MTH. Does anyone have list of pros and cons for both, and
head to head competition? I know that the Flyonel seems to have a few
problems, especially if voltage is somewhat low. Is this the same for
MTH? etc.
Tx in advance
Rance Velapoldi, Norway
Group: S-Trains Message: 17854 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
I don't have the Lionel unit, but the MTH Gabe has operated perfectly
for me...
Group: S-Trains Message: 17855 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID
What party would be improved with black [smoke]?

A Gothic party, maybe?

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
To: <anormal1@...>
Cc: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 12:22 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID


> Mike asks:
> >I have had a request to have my smoke fluid produce black smoke.
> >Do the studios ever color their "Fog"?
>
> Yes they do, in fact, coloring fog is my specialty. I am a lighting
> technician. I put a colored gel on the light and point it through the fog
> and voila!, colored particles making the air turn purple.
> You want black smoke, try a black light! OK, I'm kidding about that part.
> No, I have not seen tinted smoke fluid. That does not mean it doesn't
> exist.
>
> Obviously, you can't make black smoke with light. You also can't track your
> engines all around with lights. I would check the party stores that sell
> fog machines, but if they do have such an animal, expect purple or yellow or
> red. What party would be improved with black?
>
> Another option; check magic shops. I have only seen plain, clear fluid.
> Scents are added sometimes, but I have never seen color. I would be
> reticent to add dye to the smoke. It could screw up the machine. There may
> be a good reason, too, like the dye does not disperse enough with the fog
> liquid to change color in the atomized form. In other words, it might just
> not do anything.
>
> Call Rosco. They make the machines for us. Better yet, call
> Bash/Production Arts in NYC. They'll know if the product exists and can get
> it for you if it does.
>
> Of course, if you mean Flyer smoke fluid, forget it. The process will not
> produce black or colored smoke because of the physical principles invoved in
> doing it.
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17856 From: crustyfour Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID
Mike asks:
> > >I have had a request to have my smoke fluid produce black smoke.
> > >Do the studios ever color their "Fog"?


I remember as a kid playing with a type of fireworks we called
a "snake". It was a pellet that you lit with a match. It produced
thick black smoke and a long "snake" of ash. Obiviously you don't
want a big ash snake coming out of your Hudson, but the ingredient
used to make the black smoke may be useful. Unfortunately, I have no
idea what they were made of. I wonder if one of these pellets could
be partially disolved in some Flyer smoke fluid to add some
blackening?

Anyone else remember these snakes and their smoke?

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 17857 From: jmsdraw Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: NASG 2002 Convention Information
Updated information on tours and registration forms are available at
www.cvsga.org. Click on NASG 2002. Addition information will be added
soon.

Josh Seltzer
Group: S-Trains Message: 17858 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
Rance Velapoldi asks:
>Gabe accessory, Flyonel vs MTH. Does anyone have list of pros and cons for
both.

Off the top of my head I would say that the MTH unit is superior. For one
thing, the lights are under separate control. You don't have to make Gabe
actually turn them on and off. Secondly, the mechanism is snappier. Gabe
gets up there in fewer strokes on a tauter line. Third, the MTH control box
is more like the real original Flyer. Otherwise, both have a nice finish
and look good.


Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17859 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Colored Smoke
A footnote to yesterday's discussion of colored smoke:

Q: Where does the smoke go?
A: Everywhere. It vaporizes, scatters through the room and eventually,
through the
action of gravity, ends up coating everything in the room, you
included.
Q: So, where would the colored dye end up?
A: Oops.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17860 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Making Scents of Smoke
Dewey Duck quacked:
>I had some fluid that came in various scents, one of which
>was "coal." It was a bit too much realism for almost everyone!

Yeah, not you though!

I have been looking for this stuff for some time. In fact, Norman Maunz
from Nawlin's was asking about it. I saw an ad for it a few years ago, but
it seems to have disappeared. Where did you get it? Who made it? Do you
still have some? Is it possible to find it in the Dewey manse?

By the way, I watched "Smallville" last night and there was a funny
reference to Unca Scrooge and his house full of money. I wondered if you
caught it?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17861 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
CZ,
After letting the kids play with my MTH Gabe on the Layout, I wish the MTH
version would light up when Gabe reached the top. It actually gives Gabe a
purpose for going up and down. When the little guys work Gabe and he gets to
the top, they have a very hard time turning the light button on and off. I
have to agree with you on everything else though.

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17862 From: Alex Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID
I remember those snakes Steve! Used to order 'em from the Johnson and Smith
catalog, for ten cents. Still have the catalog. Thanks for the memories.

== Alex in Maine



-----Original Message-----
From: crustyfour [mailto:splitdorf@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 9:00 AM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID



Mike asks:
> > >I have had a request to have my smoke fluid produce black smoke.
> > >Do the studios ever color their "Fog"?


I remember as a kid playing with a type of fireworks we called
a "snake". It was a pellet that you lit with a match. It produced
thick black smoke and a long "snake" of ash. Obiviously you don't
want a big ash snake coming out of your Hudson, but the ingredient
used to make the black smoke may be useful. Unfortunately, I have no
idea what they were made of. I wonder if one of these pellets could
be partially disolved in some Flyer smoke fluid to add some
blackening?

Anyone else remember these snakes and their smoke?

Steve Blancard


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17863 From: hcopter52 Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: GABE
IMHO the only Gabe worth having is the original. See guys, i did
learn something. You mean to say that neither remake turns on the
lights automatically when gabe reaches the top? There is now an
original on ebay. Any bets as to how high it goes? John.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17864 From: David Dewey Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: GABE
John,
The original didn't turn on the lights automatically. The MTH seems to
be a near exact replica. The L one does automaticaly do the lights.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17865 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: "tinplate" and "hirail"
I beg to differ about "tinplate" being a derogatory
term. It describes an entire genre' of toy trains that
were/are manufactured from-get this-TIN PLATED
STEEL.The tin plating was used as a corrosion
barrier-well cared for trains of this construction
will have chips and scratches in their paint, with the
chrome-like tin finish showing through. Often we find
rust spots-play has rubbed away the soft tin ,
exposing the ferrous metal. High-rail (and check yer
Classic Toy Trains on this) describes a semi-scale
layout, incorporating traditional trackage,
accessories, etc. in a fully landscaped
environment.Post-war Flyer had only the trimmings of
tinplate-the stations, coal dump car, the original
crane car. Remember that American Flyer trains were
considered SCALE in their day-they've become less than
that only in retrospect. The scale judgement applies
only in the context of their market competition at the
time. When we were kids, Revell and Monogram ruled as
scale model planes, AFVs, and ships.Compare the F-89
that Revell did in 1955 to the 1991 kit-both 1/72
scale.Toy and scale? No, different technologies,
different consumer expectations, DIFFERENT ERAS. MTH
proudly proclaims its reproductions as Tinplate
Traditions. RichArt and T-Repro call their products
Tinplate, as did Mcoy. So here's my nickle(plate?0's
worth-john marganski

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17866 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Colored Smoke
This is intended for outside use. Very well ventilated area, Mike S.
Ps. Thanx to all that responded


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17867 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
My Lionel Gabe works well. My Grandson and I both like the feature that
Gabe turns on the lights at the top of his climb.
It does need adequate current and voltage to operate.
When I tested mine out of the box it needed more than about 12 volts
from a dedicated 50W transformer to operate. On the layout I run it off
a 100 watter that's mostly dedicated to switch machines.

Bente Velapoldi wrote:
>
> Hi:
> Note that we have had one or two sparse comments about Gabe accessory,
> Flyonel vs MTH. Does anyone have list of pros and cons for both, and
> head to head competition? I know that the Flyonel seems to have a few
> problems, especially if voltage is somewhat low. Is this the same for
> MTH? etc.
> Tx in advance
> Rance Velapoldi, Norway
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17868 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: "tinplate" and "hirail"
In a message dated 2/27/02 10:31:07 AM Eastern Standard Time,
druvnik@... writes:

<< Postwar Flyer had only the trimmings of tinplate-the stations, coal dump
car, the original crane car. Remember that American Flyer trains were
considered SCALE in their day-they've become less than that only in
retrospect. >>

To help clarify the question a bit, S gauge Flyer was considered scale
tinplate in its day (See the writings of Louis H. Hertz from the period --
early 50's). It ran (runs) on oversized tubular plated track and has greatly
oversized flanges for dependability of operation. By the definition during
its period of manufacture, Gilbert Flyer is tinplate. The fact that the
bodies of most of the pieces are scale or near-scale and that many of the
pieces are fabricated from plastic is of no consequence.

Hope this helps.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 17869 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Gabe Vs Gabe
In a message dated 02/27/2002 2:49:55 AM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> From: "Bente Velapoldi" <velapoldi@...>
> Subject: Gabe
>
> Hi:
> Note that we have had one or two sparse comments about Gabe accessory,
> Flyonel vs MTH. Does anyone have list of pros and cons for both, and
> head to head competition? I know that the Flyonel seems to have a few
> problems, especially if voltage is somewhat low. Is this the same for
> MTH? etc.
> Tx in advance
> Rance Velapoldi, Norway
>
>
>
>

Rance.
We have found that the MTH one works exactly like the ACG one and the
Flyonel one works like much other Flyonel stuff. Nuff sed?

Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17870 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1352
I have been a member of TCA since the 70s, the quarterly (buy & sell
lists) & other publications are fantastic.
In the directory a list of all members, there preference in collecting
and will list if they welcome TCA visitors (most do).
I have meet so many good people around the USA and seen some fantastic
collections ( not open to the general public ). It is easy to join, but
make bad dealing with fellow members and you are out. The York show is
unbelievable, twice a year 8 large buildings fill of trains, and I mean
FULL, open to TCA only. Being a member of other clubs is good also, so
much to learn about trains, and every one has a bit of information.
Don't let the tinplate term fool you, Collectors of all sizes, shapes,
and gages are members, and most collect other interesting things, old
cars, guns,antiques etc, they are willing to share. TCA is well worth
the dues. This is not to say that TTOS, NASG, NMRA and other clubs are
not as good, they all have a lot to offer.

Jerry 77-11644

On 27 Feb 2002 00:14:11 -0000 S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are 25 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. The Dewey House
> From: Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...>
> 2. RE: Spring 2003 Family outing
> From: "Horn, David" <david.horn@...>
> 3. Ebay Featured Auctions Categories
> From: Hannon <hannon@...>
> 4. Re: Insurance for Trains.
> From: Michael Greene <pinetreerr@...>
> 5. Re: Ebay Featured Auctions Categories
> From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
> 6. Re: Insurance for Trains.
> From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
> 7. TCA qusetion
> From: "lbdrummer3" <lbdrummer3@...>
> 8. Re: TCA Question
> From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
> 9. Re: TCA qusetion
> From: Michael Greene <pinetreerr@...>
> 10. Re: TCA question
> From: "lbdrummer3" <lbdrummer3@...>
> 11. PANIC
> From: "Rhett T. George" <rtg@...>
> 12. Re: TCA qusetion
> From: "Gill W. Lott" <glott@...>
> 13. Re: Re: TCA question
> From: "ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT"
> <rcon7@...>
> 14. Re: TCA question.
> From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
> 15. Re: Re: TCA question. & NASG
> From: "ron inscho" <ronnat@...>
> 16. TCA & NASG
> From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
> 17. Re: PANIC
> From: anormal1@...
> 18. Re: Re: TCA question.
> From: anormal1@...
> 19. Re: TCA & NASG
> From: "ron inscho" <ronnat@...>
> 20. Re: Re: TCA question.
> From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>
> 21. Re: TCA & NASG
> From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>
> 22. Re: Re: TCA question.
> From: Howell S Jobbins <hsjobbins@...>
> 23. Re:TCA & NASG
> From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
> 24. COLORING SMOKE FLUID
> From: anormal1@...
> 25. Spare Jan/Feb. S-Gaugian?
> From: Gary Chidester <garychidester@...>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 08:47:55 -0500
> From: Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...>
> Subject: The Dewey House
>
> >I have a roll of mohair around here somewhere.
> >Just found some more boxes with parts donors and projects!
> >Gads, when did I get all this stuff???
> >Still haven't found my bushings. Gotta be here somewhere!
>
> Hmmm. From the tenor of your last few missives, David, I'm starting
> to
> understand why you need a bigger house!
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:36:19 -0500
> From: "Horn, David" <david.horn@...>
> Subject: RE: Spring 2003 Family outing
>
> Try Strasburg PA. Great Amish country setting, operating steam
> train, RR
> Museum of PA, TCA HQ, Red Caboose Motel (sleep in a converted
> caboose),
> etc. http://www.strasburgrailroad.com/
> http://www.strasburgpa.com/strasbg_att.html You'll be in RR Heaven,
> and
> your family will enjoy themselves too. In addition to the train,
> try a
> buggy ride, but get a drive who can tell you about the Amish culture
> and way
> of life as you ride. Verrrry interesting. We rode out from the Red
> Caboose. Our driver was formerly Amish. Still has lots of respect
> for
> them, but could describe things from "both sides of the fence".
> The information in this message is confidential and is intended
> solely for
> the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility
> for the
> contents of this message, including any attachments. The views
> expressed in
> this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect
> the
> views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you
> are not
> the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST!
> Software, Inc.
> immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all
> copies
> of this message.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:24:25 -0500
> From: Hannon <hannon@...>
> Subject: Ebay Featured Auctions Categories
>
> Has anyone noticed that there is no Featured Auctions
> section in the Model RR section anymore? It seems
> they've disappeared since the new Tabs were put in.
>
>
> Bob Hannon
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:50:17 -0500
> From: Michael Greene <pinetreerr@...>
> Subject: Re: Insurance for Trains.
>
> The NMRA offers an insurance option to its members. At the time I
> purchased
> mine, the NMRA's arrangement was with American Collectibles
> Insurance Inc.
> The standard option is for $10,000 unscheduled, rate $75 per year.
> More
> information can be obtained from the NMRA. I also have some
> insurance on
> some other collectibles on my homeowner's policy, but they required
> the
> collectibles be scheduled (listed).
>
> Michael
>
> At 01:53 AM 2/26/2002 +0000, john5513211 wrote:
>
>
> >Does anyone have any suggestions as to the best
> >place to buy insurance for model trains AND
> >what is needed to obtain the insurance.
> >
> >Any idea as to what it costs?
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >john mccarthy
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
> Michael Greene Dunstable, MA, USA
> Member: NMRA, NASG, Bristol S-Gaugers, NTRAK, TCA, The 470 Railroad
> Club
>
> Bristol S Gaugers
> http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com
> National Assoc. of S Gaugers http://www.nasg.org
> Maine Railroads (including DCC Corner)
> http://www.mainerailroads.org
>
> need a good web hosting service? see
> http://www.fivebuckhost.com/?r=mgreenej
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 07:58:20 -0800
> From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
> Subject: Re: Ebay Featured Auctions Categories
>
> Also seems to be no "ending today" feature, which made my "window
> shopping"
> much easier!
> S'
> David D.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 08:00:25 -0800
> From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
> Subject: Re: Insurance for Trains.
>
> Considering the big debate on condition and value that exists, I
> would think
> a video record of one's collection could be quite valuable in any
> claim
> collection.
> I have some still photos, but not of everything. . . .(do as I say,
> not as I
> do!)
> S'
> David D.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 17:37:33 -0000
> From: "lbdrummer3" <lbdrummer3@...>
> Subject: TCA qusetion
>
> Hi all, I've seen the acronym TCA and a grading scales associated
> with it pop up now and then. What exactly is TCA? My guess is that
>
> it stands for Train Collectors Association, if so what are the
> advantages to belonging to them?
> Thanks,
> Fred
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 17:47:49 -0000
> From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
> Subject: Re: TCA Question
>
> Good question Fred, I also would like to know the advantages of
> joining this group. I have met some who are very knowledgable. John.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 12:53:02 -0500
> From: Michael Greene <pinetreerr@...>
> Subject: Re: TCA qusetion
>
> Perhaps their web site will help with some of your questions...
>
> http://www.traincollectors.org
>
> Michael
>
> At 05:37 PM 2/26/2002 +0000, lbdrummer3 wrote:
> >Hi all, I've seen the acronym TCA and a grading scales associated
> >with it pop up now and then. What exactly is TCA? My guess is
> that
> >it stands for Train Collectors Association, if so what are the
> >advantages to belonging to them?
> >Thanks,
> >Fred
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
> Michael Greene Dunstable, MA, USA
> Member: NMRA, NASG, Bristol S Gaugers, NTRAK, TCA, The 470 Railroad
> Club
>
> Bristol S Gaugers
> http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com
> National Assoc. of S Gaugers http://www.nasg.org
> Maine Railroads (including DCC Corner)
> http://www.mainerailroads.org
>
> need a good web hosting service? see
> http://www.fivebuckhost.com/?r=mgreenej
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:26:27 -0000
> From: "lbdrummer3" <lbdrummer3@...>
> Subject: Re: TCA question
>
> Thanks Michael. Does anyone know if there is a Southern California
> chapter? I looked but couldn't find any.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:35:01 -0500 (EST)
> From: "Rhett T. George" <rtg@...>
> Subject: PANIC
>
> - Greetings -
>
> Dewey D. (those initials are the same as those of my sister's given
> names.)
> asked about panic buttons. The Carolinas Division of Atlantic Coast
> S
> Gaugers has been using panic buttons for about a year, now. Black
> buttons
> for the outer loop, red for the inner. Reset is done at the
> transformer
> corner, panic stops from the other three corners. Members benefit
> from
> fewer bruises and sprains incurred when diving past other members
> while
> trying to reach the transformers.
>
> Yelling "Breakaway" not only raises the averaged noise level but
> causes
> trains on the two nearest modular layouts to stop, also.
>
> Cheer`S'
> Rhett
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:39:03 -0500
> From: "Gill W. Lott" <glott@...>
> Subject: Re: TCA qusetion
>
> After visiting the Web-Site I gues the question about 'S' production
> is answered.
> 'S' sold out / 'O' still available (yeah, there are 300 more 'O's
> units made,
> buttttt vendors take notice!)
>
> >>> Michael Greene <pinetreerr@...> 2/26/02 12:53:02 PM >>>
> Perhaps their web site will help with some of your questions...
>
> http://www.traincollectors.org
>
> Michael
>
> At 05:37 PM 2/26/2002 +0000, lbdrummer3 wrote:
> >Hi all, I've seen the acronym TCA and a grading scales associated
> >with it pop up now and then. What exactly is TCA? My guess is
> that
> >it stands for Train Collectors Association, if so what are the
> >advantages to belonging to them?
> >Thanks,
> >Fred
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
> Michael Greene Dunstable, MA, USA
> Member: NMRA, NASG, Bristol S Gaugers, NTRAK, TCA, The 470 Railroad
> Club
>
> Bristol S Gaugers
> http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com
> National Assoc. of S Gaugers http://www.nasg.org
> Maine Railroads (including DCC Corner)
> http://www.mainerailroads.org
>
> need a good web hosting service? see
> http://www.fivebuckhost.com/?r=mgreenej
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 14:04:06 -0500
> From: "ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT" <rcon7@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: TCA question
>
> THERE WILL BE A TCA MEET IN OAKLAND, CA. ON MARCH 9, 2002....CALL
> MARK BOYD
> AT 510-886-6699 FOR DIRECTIONS...THEY WILL HELP YOU GET IN AND I
> WOULD
> STRONGLY RECCOMMEND JOINING...I HAVE BEEN A MEMBER SINCE 1983....MY
> TCA NO
> IS 83-10382
> IF YOU WANT TO LIST ME AS A SIGNER UPPER REFERENCE......ARCADIA, CA
> WILL BE
> NOV 24, 2002......BOB CONNER
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "lbdrummer3" <lbdrummer3@...>
> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 1:26 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] Re: TCA question
>
>
> > Thanks Michael. Does anyone know if there is a Southern
> California
> > chapter? I looked but couldn't find any.
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 19:29:49 -0000
> From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
> Subject: Re: TCA question.
>
> Ok, I have looked through the TCA web site(thanks to the sender). I
> do not collect or operate tinplate, strictly post-war flyer from 46-
> about 60. Would I not get more out of the NASG than the TCA?
> Opinions? Thanks to all,John.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 14:37:18 -0500
> From: "ron inscho" <ronnat@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: TCA question. & NASG
>
>
> > The 46 to 60 flyer trains are tinplate & as for which to join ?
> Why not
> join both ? You will be pleased as both have things of interest to
> all S
> gaugers. Ron Inscho
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 19:44:22 -0000
> From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
> Subject: TCA & NASG
>
> Thank you so much Ron. I guess I only thought I knew what tinplate
> was. Maybe someone had better explain the term to me. Never thought
> of my flyer as tinplate, only diecast. I guess i am more confused
> than I thought! Is that the material or the process used to make
> them. Any TCA chapter near Chicago? Thanks again Ron and take
> care,John.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 14:51:35 EST
> From: anormal1@...
> Subject: Re: PANIC
>
> Hi,
> I believe there is a switch that can be used for both Panic
> &
> reversing. It breaks the circuit when thrown upwards and springs
> back to
> center, when thrown downwards it cuts power and stays in that
> position. Mike
> S.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 14:54:44 EST
> From: anormal1@...
> Subject: Re: Re: TCA question.
>
> Are there any members of the TTOS on this list? They are a pretty
> good
> group. Mike S.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 15:08:08 -0500
> From: "ron inscho" <ronnat@...>
> Subject: Re: TCA & NASG
>
> Yes as well detailed & as good as it looks our American Flyer trains
> are
> still tinplate . The name tinplate comes from the early days when
> the trains
> track & all were made from tinplated steel our trains are an
> advanced form
> of tinplate but tinplate none the less.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 16:21:55 -0500
> From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: TCA question.
>
> Hi,
>
> I too operate post-war Flyer and consider it to be quasi-tin-plate.
> I think you would do very well to join the NASG. I did just that at
> the national convention in Scranton, PA last summer. Haven't
> regretted it one minute. The convention was a wonderful learning
> experience and got me warmed up to build my first Flyer layout.
> There were so many different 'venues' to explore; Flyer, high rail
> and scale S gauge. Just talking with the guys was very helpful and
> informative. Flyer is a subset of the S gauge genre. The NASG
> offers a club that is a pure concept - fun with S gauge trains.
>
> The TCA is much broader and a Flyer enthusiast might feel a little
> lost. Still, the TCA sponsors the mother of all train shows twice a
> year in York, PA. IMHO, that would be worth the membership dues
> itself.
>
> Personally, I joined both. Why not? The dues won't break anybody's
> budget and the upside gain is unbound.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 2:29 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] Re: TCA question.
>
>
> > Ok, I have looked through the TCA web site(thanks to the sender).
> I
> > do not collect or operate tinplate, strictly post-war flyer from
> 46-
> > about 60. Would I not get more out of the NASG than the TCA?
> > Opinions? Thanks to all,John.
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 16:26:17 -0500
> From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>
> Subject: Re: TCA & NASG
>
> Yes, you are absolutely right. Flyer is classified as tin-plate. I
> use the term quasi-tin-plate 'cuz of all the plastic stuff. Just my
> idiosyncrasy.
>
> -Tim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ron inscho" <ronnat@...>
> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 3:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] TCA & NASG
>
>
> > Yes as well detailed & as good as it looks our American Flyer
> trains are
> > still tinplate . The name tinplate comes from the early days when
> the trains
> > track & all were made from tinplated steel our trains are an
> advanced form
> > of tinplate but tinplate none the less.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 16:42:08 -0500
> From: Howell S Jobbins <hsjobbins@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: TCA question.
>
> NASG, ---Yes Sir, Alot of insights, and help to keep'm running as
> many
> people are hi-rail operators that run their trans alot.
>
> On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 19:29:49 -0000 "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
> writes:
> > Ok, I have looked through the TCA web site(thanks to the sender).
> I
> > do not collect or operate tinplate, strictly post-war flyer from
> 46-
> > about 60. Would I not get more out of the NASG than the TCA?
> > Opinions? Thanks to all,John.
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 22:05:55 -0000
> From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
> Subject: Re:TCA & NASG
>
> Thanks to all for your info and suggestions. I will probably join
> both but need to find sponsors in the area. Their web site should
> give me that help. What are these expressions i see all the
> time-IMHO
> and please explain Hi-Rail. Is that what flyer track is considered?
> I
> am learning alot today. Dont know if i will ever be able to think of
>
> my trains as tinplate tho! Thanks again to all,John.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:28:29 EST
> From: anormal1@...
> Subject: COLORING SMOKE FLUID
>
> I have a question for anyone that might have an answer. I have
> had a
> request to have my smoke fluid produce black smoke. Anybody have any
> ideas?
> Zizzo I think you might be of help on this. Do the studios ever
> color their
> "Fog"? Thank you Mike S.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 17:09:43 -0700
> From: Gary Chidester <garychidester@...>
> Subject: Spare Jan/Feb. S-Gaugian?
>
> Pardon me, but could someone spare a Jan/Feb S-Gaugian?
>
> My local shop is closing and I had been purchasing each issue from
> him.
> when I found out he no longer was carrying and I started my own
> subscription
> I have missed the Jan/Feb issue. I will gladly pay for the issue
> and
> shipping!
>
> Please contact me @ garychidester@...
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17871 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: S-gauge Video Vol. IV
Just wanted to repeat this posting of Feb 22 for those that may not have seen
it. We will begin shipping these on March 8th.

This one has some absolutely terrific video of the tour layouts from
Steamtown 2001 convention. This has not been seen before. Bill Fraley's, is
just one of them. Intermixed with the tour layouts are bit by bit
construction scenes of a highrail layout from bare walls to up and running.
It covers a 20x24 area. It uses some unique construction techniques and
materials. I think you'll find it interesting. This layout will be featured
in other volumes to come as it continues to progress. It is at the point of
one completed outer loop and even has the scratch built 7 stall roundhouse
nearly completed thus far. Since I started editing for this volume it has had
a second loop finished. At the end of this video will be a shameless act of
commercialism on our part in that we show you how we manufacture the Can
Motors that we sell for Flyer replacements and how to install one in a loco.
All your wondering about how ugly/fat/stupid I look will be answered because
they got me and Sam on the lens side of the camera for this part.

Same price as before...$13 Ppd.

If you're interested send the $$ to:

Steve Blackburn
3239 Pepperwood Dr.
Boise, Idaho 83704


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17872 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1352
Hey Guys....Don't forget the many open meets all over town....Many people
who are not TCA members bring thier stuff and just open up the car
trunks!!!!! You never know what you will find....One example in the Blue
hall I meet a man...DIVORCE..ETC...He was selling boxed sets...the prices
were so good, We just grabbed them...without even lookin at them very
close...most sets I got I didn't even open the box....WOW what
deals...OTOH....Be prepared for sticker SHOCKKKKK....Some stuff is wild....I
once saw three lionel boxed accessories go from the table next to
me....Watched the guy count out 15,000.00...I am thinking of going this year
if I can get a room...BOB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald R Dobbs" <grdobbs@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1352


>
> I have been a member of TCA since the 70s, the quarterly (buy & sell
> lists) & other publications are fantastic.
> In the directory a list of all members, there preference in collecting
> and will list if they welcome TCA visitors (most do).
> I have meet so many good people around the USA and seen some fantastic
> collections ( not open to the general public ). It is easy to join, but
> make bad dealing with fellow members and you are out. The York show is
> unbelievable, twice a year 8 large buildings fill of trains, and I mean
> FULL, open to TCA only. Being a member of other clubs is good also, so
> much to learn about trains, and every one has a bit of information.
> Don't let the tinplate term fool you, Collectors of all sizes, shapes,
> and gages are members, and most collect other interesting things, old
> cars, guns,antiques etc, they are willing to share. TCA is well worth
> the dues. This is not to say that TTOS, NASG, NMRA and other clubs are
> not as good, they all have a lot to offer.
>
> Jerry 77-11644
>
> On 27 Feb 2002 00:14:11 -0000 S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > There are 25 messages in this issue.
> >
> > Topics in this digest:
> >
> > 1. The Dewey House
> > From: Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...>
> > 2. RE: Spring 2003 Family outing
> > From: "Horn, David" <david.horn@...>
> > 3. Ebay Featured Auctions Categories
> > From: Hannon <hannon@...>
> > 4. Re: Insurance for Trains.
> > From: Michael Greene <pinetreerr@...>
> > 5. Re: Ebay Featured Auctions Categories
> > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
> > 6. Re: Insurance for Trains.
> > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
> > 7. TCA qusetion
> > From: "lbdrummer3" <lbdrummer3@...>
> > 8. Re: TCA Question
> > From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
> > 9. Re: TCA qusetion
> > From: Michael Greene <pinetreerr@...>
> > 10. Re: TCA question
> > From: "lbdrummer3" <lbdrummer3@...>
> > 11. PANIC
> > From: "Rhett T. George" <rtg@...>
> > 12. Re: TCA qusetion
> > From: "Gill W. Lott" <glott@...>
> > 13. Re: Re: TCA question
> > From: "ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT"
> > <rcon7@...>
> > 14. Re: TCA question.
> > From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
> > 15. Re: Re: TCA question. & NASG
> > From: "ron inscho" <ronnat@...>
> > 16. TCA & NASG
> > From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
> > 17. Re: PANIC
> > From: anormal1@...
> > 18. Re: Re: TCA question.
> > From: anormal1@...
> > 19. Re: TCA & NASG
> > From: "ron inscho" <ronnat@...>
> > 20. Re: Re: TCA question.
> > From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>
> > 21. Re: TCA & NASG
> > From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>
> > 22. Re: Re: TCA question.
> > From: Howell S Jobbins <hsjobbins@...>
> > 23. Re:TCA & NASG
> > From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
> > 24. COLORING SMOKE FLUID
> > From: anormal1@...
> > 25. Spare Jan/Feb. S-Gaugian?
> > From: Gary Chidester <garychidester@...>
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 08:47:55 -0500
> > From: Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...>
> > Subject: The Dewey House
> >
> > >I have a roll of mohair around here somewhere.
> > >Just found some more boxes with parts donors and projects!
> > >Gads, when did I get all this stuff???
> > >Still haven't found my bushings. Gotta be here somewhere!
> >
> > Hmmm. From the tenor of your last few missives, David, I'm starting
> > to
> > understand why you need a bigger house!
> >
> > Chris Zizzo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:36:19 -0500
> > From: "Horn, David" <david.horn@...>
> > Subject: RE: Spring 2003 Family outing
> >
> > Try Strasburg PA. Great Amish country setting, operating steam
> > train, RR
> > Museum of PA, TCA HQ, Red Caboose Motel (sleep in a converted
> > caboose),
> > etc. http://www.strasburgrailroad.com/
> > http://www.strasburgpa.com/strasbg_att.html You'll be in RR Heaven,
> > and
> > your family will enjoy themselves too. In addition to the train,
> > try a
> > buggy ride, but get a drive who can tell you about the Amish culture
> > and way
> > of life as you ride. Verrrry interesting. We rode out from the Red
> > Caboose. Our driver was formerly Amish. Still has lots of respect
> > for
> > them, but could describe things from "both sides of the fence".
> > The information in this message is confidential and is intended
> > solely for
> > the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility
> > for the
> > contents of this message, including any attachments. The views
> > expressed in
> > this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect
> > the
> > views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you
> > are not
> > the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST!
> > Software, Inc.
> > immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all
> > copies
> > of this message.
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:24:25 -0500
> > From: Hannon <hannon@...>
> > Subject: Ebay Featured Auctions Categories
> >
> > Has anyone noticed that there is no Featured Auctions
> > section in the Model RR section anymore? It seems
> > they've disappeared since the new Tabs were put in.
> >
> >
> > Bob Hannon
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:50:17 -0500
> > From: Michael Greene <pinetreerr@...>
> > Subject: Re: Insurance for Trains.
> >
> > The NMRA offers an insurance option to its members. At the time I
> > purchased
> > mine, the NMRA's arrangement was with American Collectibles
> > Insurance Inc.
> > The standard option is for $10,000 unscheduled, rate $75 per year.
> > More
> > information can be obtained from the NMRA. I also have some
> > insurance on
> > some other collectibles on my homeowner's policy, but they required
> > the
> > collectibles be scheduled (listed).
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > At 01:53 AM 2/26/2002 +0000, john5513211 wrote:
> >
> >
> > >Does anyone have any suggestions as to the best
> > >place to buy insurance for model trains AND
> > >what is needed to obtain the insurance.
> > >
> > >Any idea as to what it costs?
> > >
> > >Thanks.
> > >
> > >john mccarthy
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> > Michael Greene Dunstable, MA, USA
> > Member: NMRA, NASG, Bristol S-Gaugers, NTRAK, TCA, The 470 Railroad
> > Club
> >
> > Bristol S Gaugers
> > http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com
> > National Assoc. of S Gaugers http://www.nasg.org
> > Maine Railroads (including DCC Corner)
> > http://www.mainerailroads.org
> >
> > need a good web hosting service? see
> > http://www.fivebuckhost.com/?r=mgreenej
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 07:58:20 -0800
> > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
> > Subject: Re: Ebay Featured Auctions Categories
> >
> > Also seems to be no "ending today" feature, which made my "window
> > shopping"
> > much easier!
> > S'
> > David D.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 08:00:25 -0800
> > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
> > Subject: Re: Insurance for Trains.
> >
> > Considering the big debate on condition and value that exists, I
> > would think
> > a video record of one's collection could be quite valuable in any
> > claim
> > collection.
> > I have some still photos, but not of everything. . . .(do as I say,
> > not as I
> > do!)
> > S'
> > David D.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 17:37:33 -0000
> > From: "lbdrummer3" <lbdrummer3@...>
> > Subject: TCA qusetion
> >
> > Hi all, I've seen the acronym TCA and a grading scales associated
> > with it pop up now and then. What exactly is TCA? My guess is that
> >
> > it stands for Train Collectors Association, if so what are the
> > advantages to belonging to them?
> > Thanks,
> > Fred
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 8
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 17:47:49 -0000
> > From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
> > Subject: Re: TCA Question
> >
> > Good question Fred, I also would like to know the advantages of
> > joining this group. I have met some who are very knowledgable. John.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 9
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 12:53:02 -0500
> > From: Michael Greene <pinetreerr@...>
> > Subject: Re: TCA qusetion
> >
> > Perhaps their web site will help with some of your questions...
> >
> > http://www.traincollectors.org
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > At 05:37 PM 2/26/2002 +0000, lbdrummer3 wrote:
> > >Hi all, I've seen the acronym TCA and a grading scales associated
> > >with it pop up now and then. What exactly is TCA? My guess is
> > that
> > >it stands for Train Collectors Association, if so what are the
> > >advantages to belonging to them?
> > >Thanks,
> > >Fred
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> > Michael Greene Dunstable, MA, USA
> > Member: NMRA, NASG, Bristol S Gaugers, NTRAK, TCA, The 470 Railroad
> > Club
> >
> > Bristol S Gaugers
> > http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com
> > National Assoc. of S Gaugers http://www.nasg.org
> > Maine Railroads (including DCC Corner)
> > http://www.mainerailroads.org
> >
> > need a good web hosting service? see
> > http://www.fivebuckhost.com/?r=mgreenej
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 10
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:26:27 -0000
> > From: "lbdrummer3" <lbdrummer3@...>
> > Subject: Re: TCA question
> >
> > Thanks Michael. Does anyone know if there is a Southern California
> > chapter? I looked but couldn't find any.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 11
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:35:01 -0500 (EST)
> > From: "Rhett T. George" <rtg@...>
> > Subject: PANIC
> >
> > - Greetings -
> >
> > Dewey D. (those initials are the same as those of my sister's given
> > names.)
> > asked about panic buttons. The Carolinas Division of Atlantic Coast
> > S
> > Gaugers has been using panic buttons for about a year, now. Black
> > buttons
> > for the outer loop, red for the inner. Reset is done at the
> > transformer
> > corner, panic stops from the other three corners. Members benefit
> > from
> > fewer bruises and sprains incurred when diving past other members
> > while
> > trying to reach the transformers.
> >
> > Yelling "Breakaway" not only raises the averaged noise level but
> > causes
> > trains on the two nearest modular layouts to stop, also.
> >
> > Cheer`S'
> > Rhett
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 12
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:39:03 -0500
> > From: "Gill W. Lott" <glott@...>
> > Subject: Re: TCA qusetion
> >
> > After visiting the Web-Site I gues the question about 'S' production
> > is answered.
> > 'S' sold out / 'O' still available (yeah, there are 300 more 'O's
> > units made,
> > buttttt vendors take notice!)
> >
> > >>> Michael Greene <pinetreerr@...> 2/26/02 12:53:02 PM >>>
> > Perhaps their web site will help with some of your questions...
> >
> > http://www.traincollectors.org
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > At 05:37 PM 2/26/2002 +0000, lbdrummer3 wrote:
> > >Hi all, I've seen the acronym TCA and a grading scales associated
> > >with it pop up now and then. What exactly is TCA? My guess is
> > that
> > >it stands for Train Collectors Association, if so what are the
> > >advantages to belonging to them?
> > >Thanks,
> > >Fred
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> > Michael Greene Dunstable, MA, USA
> > Member: NMRA, NASG, Bristol S Gaugers, NTRAK, TCA, The 470 Railroad
> > Club
> >
> > Bristol S Gaugers
> > http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com
> > National Assoc. of S Gaugers http://www.nasg.org
> > Maine Railroads (including DCC Corner)
> > http://www.mainerailroads.org
> >
> > need a good web hosting service? see
> > http://www.fivebuckhost.com/?r=mgreenej
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> >
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 13
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 14:04:06 -0500
> > From: "ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT" <rcon7@...>
> > Subject: Re: Re: TCA question
> >
> > THERE WILL BE A TCA MEET IN OAKLAND, CA. ON MARCH 9, 2002....CALL
> > MARK BOYD
> > AT 510-886-6699 FOR DIRECTIONS...THEY WILL HELP YOU GET IN AND I
> > WOULD
> > STRONGLY RECCOMMEND JOINING...I HAVE BEEN A MEMBER SINCE 1983....MY
> > TCA NO
> > IS 83-10382
> > IF YOU WANT TO LIST ME AS A SIGNER UPPER REFERENCE......ARCADIA, CA
> > WILL BE
> > NOV 24, 2002......BOB CONNER
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "lbdrummer3" <lbdrummer3@...>
> > To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 1:26 PM
> > Subject: [S-Trains] Re: TCA question
> >
> >
> > > Thanks Michael. Does anyone know if there is a Southern
> > California
> > > chapter? I looked but couldn't find any.
> > >
> > >
> > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> > >
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 14
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 19:29:49 -0000
> > From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
> > Subject: Re: TCA question.
> >
> > Ok, I have looked through the TCA web site(thanks to the sender). I
> > do not collect or operate tinplate, strictly post-war flyer from 46-
> > about 60. Would I not get more out of the NASG than the TCA?
> > Opinions? Thanks to all,John.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 15
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 14:37:18 -0500
> > From: "ron inscho" <ronnat@...>
> > Subject: Re: Re: TCA question. & NASG
> >
> >
> > > The 46 to 60 flyer trains are tinplate & as for which to join ?
> > Why not
> > join both ? You will be pleased as both have things of interest to
> > all S
> > gaugers. Ron Inscho
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 16
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 19:44:22 -0000
> > From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
> > Subject: TCA & NASG
> >
> > Thank you so much Ron. I guess I only thought I knew what tinplate
> > was. Maybe someone had better explain the term to me. Never thought
> > of my flyer as tinplate, only diecast. I guess i am more confused
> > than I thought! Is that the material or the process used to make
> > them. Any TCA chapter near Chicago? Thanks again Ron and take
> > care,John.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 17
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 14:51:35 EST
> > From: anormal1@...
> > Subject: Re: PANIC
> >
> > Hi,
> > I believe there is a switch that can be used for both Panic
> > &
> > reversing. It breaks the circuit when thrown upwards and springs
> > back to
> > center, when thrown downwards it cuts power and stays in that
> > position. Mike
> > S.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 18
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 14:54:44 EST
> > From: anormal1@...
> > Subject: Re: Re: TCA question.
> >
> > Are there any members of the TTOS on this list? They are a pretty
> > good
> > group. Mike S.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 19
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 15:08:08 -0500
> > From: "ron inscho" <ronnat@...>
> > Subject: Re: TCA & NASG
> >
> > Yes as well detailed & as good as it looks our American Flyer trains
> > are
> > still tinplate . The name tinplate comes from the early days when
> > the trains
> > track & all were made from tinplated steel our trains are an
> > advanced form
> > of tinplate but tinplate none the less.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 20
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 16:21:55 -0500
> > From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>
> > Subject: Re: Re: TCA question.
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I too operate post-war Flyer and consider it to be quasi-tin-plate.
> > I think you would do very well to join the NASG. I did just that at
> > the national convention in Scranton, PA last summer. Haven't
> > regretted it one minute. The convention was a wonderful learning
> > experience and got me warmed up to build my first Flyer layout.
> > There were so many different 'venues' to explore; Flyer, high rail
> > and scale S gauge. Just talking with the guys was very helpful and
> > informative. Flyer is a subset of the S gauge genre. The NASG
> > offers a club that is a pure concept - fun with S gauge trains.
> >
> > The TCA is much broader and a Flyer enthusiast might feel a little
> > lost. Still, the TCA sponsors the mother of all train shows twice a
> > year in York, PA. IMHO, that would be worth the membership dues
> > itself.
> >
> > Personally, I joined both. Why not? The dues won't break anybody's
> > budget and the upside gain is unbound.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Tim
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
> > To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 2:29 PM
> > Subject: [S-Trains] Re: TCA question.
> >
> >
> > > Ok, I have looked through the TCA web site(thanks to the sender).
> > I
> > > do not collect or operate tinplate, strictly post-war flyer from
> > 46-
> > > about 60. Would I not get more out of the NASG than the TCA?
> > > Opinions? Thanks to all,John.
> > >
> > >
> > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> > >
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 21
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 16:26:17 -0500
> > From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>
> > Subject: Re: TCA & NASG
> >
> > Yes, you are absolutely right. Flyer is classified as tin-plate. I
> > use the term quasi-tin-plate 'cuz of all the plastic stuff. Just my
> > idiosyncrasy.
> >
> > -Tim
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "ron inscho" <ronnat@...>
> > To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 3:08 PM
> > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] TCA & NASG
> >
> >
> > > Yes as well detailed & as good as it looks our American Flyer
> > trains are
> > > still tinplate . The name tinplate comes from the early days when
> > the trains
> > > track & all were made from tinplated steel our trains are an
> > advanced form
> > > of tinplate but tinplate none the less.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> > >
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 22
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 16:42:08 -0500
> > From: Howell S Jobbins <hsjobbins@...>
> > Subject: Re: Re: TCA question.
> >
> > NASG, ---Yes Sir, Alot of insights, and help to keep'm running as
> > many
> > people are hi-rail operators that run their trans alot.
> >
> > On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 19:29:49 -0000 "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
> > writes:
> > > Ok, I have looked through the TCA web site(thanks to the sender).
> > I
> > > do not collect or operate tinplate, strictly post-war flyer from
> > 46-
> > > about 60. Would I not get more out of the NASG than the TCA?
> > > Opinions? Thanks to all,John.
> > >
> > >
> > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> > >
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > > s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 23
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 22:05:55 -0000
> > From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
> > Subject: Re:TCA & NASG
> >
> > Thanks to all for your info and suggestions. I will probably join
> > both but need to find sponsors in the area. Their web site should
> > give me that help. What are these expressions i see all the
> > time-IMHO
> > and please explain Hi-Rail. Is that what flyer track is considered?
> > I
> > am learning alot today. Dont know if i will ever be able to think of
> >
> > my trains as tinplate tho! Thanks again to all,John.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 24
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:28:29 EST
> > From: anormal1@...
> > Subject: COLORING SMOKE FLUID
> >
> > I have a question for anyone that might have an answer. I have
> > had a
> > request to have my smoke fluid produce black smoke. Anybody have any
> > ideas?
> > Zizzo I think you might be of help on this. Do the studios ever
> > color their
> > "Fog"? Thank you Mike S.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 25
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 17:09:43 -0700
> > From: Gary Chidester <garychidester@...>
> > Subject: Spare Jan/Feb. S-Gaugian?
> >
> > Pardon me, but could someone spare a Jan/Feb S-Gaugian?
> >
> > My local shop is closing and I had been purchasing each issue from
> > him.
> > when I found out he no longer was carrying and I started my own
> > subscription
> > I have missed the Jan/Feb issue. I will gladly pay for the issue
> > and
> > shipping!
> >
> > Please contact me @ garychidester@...
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
> ________________________________________________________________
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>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17873 From: ron inscho Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Fw: "FREE" LIONEL CALENDER
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Ro Supply Company" <cro662@...>
To: "Ron L. Inscho" <ronnat@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:21 AM
Subject: "FREE" LIONEL CALENDER


> Don't miss out on your chance for a free 2002 LIONEL DESK CALENDAR.
>
> CHARLES RO SUPPLY COMPANY is giving away a free 2002 Lionel Desk Calendar
with every order placed through our web
> site during the month of February. This offer is only good while supplies
last and there are only 3 days left to place your order.
> Click on the link below and go directly to our web site, select the
on-line store and place your order. To get your "Free" calendar
> select the "Search" tag and enter the calendar code - "LCAL" (without the
quotes). When the item is displayed, select 'add to
> basket' and your free calendar will be shipped with your order.
>
> Remember, this offer expires on February 28th, so don't delay.
>
> Charles Ro Supply Company web site: <<http://www.charlesro.com/>>
>
> Customer Service email address : cro662@...
>
> If you cannot see the link in this email, cut and paste the URL into your
browser's address field.
>
> PLEASE NOTE: If you prefer not to receive information such as this in the
future, reply from this address and type "remove" in the
> subject line.
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17874 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1352
Count me in on the Chicago EL. I like electrics! Steam fans -- I think you
can get all wet and too hot in the firebox! <VERY tongue-in-cheek! :-) >

More theriously,
My father and I went to the Illinois Railroad Museum. He was not
excited. I had a great time with all the electrics and burned many rolls of
film. Then we went to the Mid Continent Railroad Museum with live steam and
NO electrics. Our roles reversed. He had a great time burning film and I
took nary a shot. (It was more fun watching him with that ear-to-ear grin!)

Takes all kinds! (And that is the fun!)

Thorin

--- Original Message ---
Message: 16
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 22:08:15 EST
From: boss31@...
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1352

The place you would surely not want to go is Snoqualmie Washington. It's in
the middle of the real ugly Cascade Mountains and has so many steam locos of

all type and ilk that you would really get bored looking at them. The train
ride is really crummy too because of all those trees and lakes and streams
and stuff. I'd recommend the Chicago El..

{8>)........."S"



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17875 From: ron inscho Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID & snakes
Yes I remember them & how I caught hell for using them & how they smelled
just like old high sulpher coal & the black mark the left on the side walk
when set on fire. Past experience tells Me this should be avoided. After the
snakes I moved on to STINK BOMBS but that is annother story.
----- Original Message -----
From: "crustyfour" <splitdorf@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 8:59 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID


>
> Mike asks:
> > > >I have had a request to have my smoke fluid produce black smoke.
> > > >Do the studios ever color their "Fog"?
>
>
> I remember as a kid playing with a type of fireworks we called
> a "snake". It was a pellet that you lit with a match. It produced
> thick black smoke and a long "snake" of ash. Obiviously you don't
> want a big ash snake coming out of your Hudson, but the ingredient
> used to make the black smoke may be useful. Unfortunately, I have no
> idea what they were made of. I wonder if one of these pellets could
> be partially disolved in some Flyer smoke fluid to add some
> blackening?
>
> Anyone else remember these snakes and their smoke?
>
> Steve Blancard
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17876 From: ron inscho Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: TCA
YES there is lot of TCA action in & around CHICAGO . Check the tca web site
for details
----- Original Message -----
From: "ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT" <rcon7@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] TCA & NASG


> Try March 9, 2002 in Addison, Il....contact Chris Rohlfing at
> 630-279-7235...supposed to be a big meet.....Me...I am going to Perry, Ga.
> on sat the 2 nd....Here theres a big Model Airplane and Kit meet....Don't
> laugh...One of my Best finds was at a Gun show....Picked up lots of "o"
> CHEEEEEP...BTW...I am looking for balsa kits....Speedee bilts, Berkeley,
> Cleveland, Etc......Will trade excesssssssss AF...Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 2:44 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] TCA & NASG
>
>
> > Thank you so much Ron. I guess I only thought I knew what tinplate
> > was. Maybe someone had better explain the term to me. Never thought
> > of my flyer as tinplate, only diecast. I guess i am more confused
> > than I thought! Is that the material or the process used to make
> > them. Any TCA chapter near Chicago? Thanks again Ron and take
> > care,John.
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17877 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: stripping paint from aluminum
What do I use to strip paint from aluminum? Will hardward store paint
stripper work, or does that react with the aluminum? How about brake
fluid?

Thanks. Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17878 From: jfrr54 Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID & snakes
I think those snakes produced a flare as well that would probably melt
some of the Hudson parts. I suspect that there is some gun powder in
that formula. So, I'd recommend against it. But if you try it let me
know how it works. Its kind of like asking someone if they tried
running their Docksider at 120 mph on a tight curve.

John Rodgers
Group: S-Trains Message: 17879 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: BLACK SMOKE FLUID
Thanks for all the suggestions. The snake thing is out. So I'm off to my
local chemical store to find what might react with the fluid to produce black
smoke but no residue. The people that asked for the black mainly run there
stuff outdoors. I might try some reg. 30 weight auto oil that may produce the
effect of a fouled plug & oil seeping past the rings. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17880 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Erratic K-5?
Hi All,

A couple days ago there was a post about a K-5 that ran erratically. I also have (had) one. Here's what I found. It wasn't worn bushings, worn axels or egged-out drive rods. It was bad tender pick-up wheels. When I changed them from brass to steel, the loco ran like a champ. Notice I said pick-up wheels. The brass return wheels were fine. The brass pick-up wheels acted like dirt magnets. In about 15 - 20 minutes run time, they were so dirty, the loco ran erratically. Cleaning the track with a bright-boy and wiping it off with alcohol didn't help. I'd re-clean the brass pick-up wheels and get another 15 - 20 minutes. After changing them to steel wheels, I've been running it flawlessly all afternoon. For the record, the brass wheels were not pitted. They were shiny bright. Strange but true. Do-do-do-do. Do-do-do-do.

Regards,
Tim



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17881 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Special Rail
I know there were several different special rails offered from different times for the electro-mechanical operating cars. Pikemaster brought pure mechanical operating cars and trips for each regular and Pikemaster track. But, what trip fit the Pikemaster track for the electric operated cars?

I'm sure there must have been one. The mechanical trips (hay jector, etc) are hard to find, but I've not heard what trip could be used for the electric pickup operation.

jfred



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17882 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Check out eBay item 1707774372 (Ends Feb-27-02 18:49:37 PST ) - AF
Hey Gang,
Does the below Eaby item come with a free PET ROCK ??

<A HREF="http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1707774372">Click here: eBay item 1707774372 (Ends Feb-27-02 18:49:37 PST ) - AF 9701
The Rock Box Car Mint Boxed!!</A>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17883 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Auctioneers lack of knowledge!
I thought you all might get a kick out of a segment of an email from a friend about his take on "some" auctioneers and the treatment of AF trains by them. They must be the "everything and anything" type of auctions. Hard to be knowledgeable on everything in the collectable world. Maybe worth a try someday.

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD

"I'm also forever amused at the way auctioneers deal with trains. You walk into an auction hall and behind locked glass is a McCoy vase valued at $50.00 to $75.00. Look but don't touch unless supervised. Along side is a table with Flyer trains that people are just beating up. Value, oh maybe $2000.00. Weird eh!!."


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17884 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID & snakes
Why Ron and Mike,

How about a search on Ebay for them and someone could do a chemical analysts
on those snakes bombs to see what chemical caused the color. LOL!!

Hey, you never know, what is on Ebay, with the all stuff on there!

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD
----- Original Message -----
From: "ron inscho" <ronnat@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "crustyfour" <splitdorf@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID & snakes


> Yes I remember them & how I caught hell for using them & how they smelled
> just like old high sulpher coal & the black mark the left on the side walk
> when set on fire. Past experience tells Me this should be avoided. After
the
> snakes I moved on to STINK BOMBS but that is annother story.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "crustyfour" <splitdorf@...>
> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 8:59 AM
> Subject: [S-Trains] Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID
>
>
> >
> > Mike asks:
> > > > >I have had a request to have my smoke fluid produce black smoke.
> > > > >Do the studios ever color their "Fog"?
> >
> >
> > I remember as a kid playing with a type of fireworks we called
> > a "snake". It was a pellet that you lit with a match. It produced
> > thick black smoke and a long "snake" of ash. Obiviously you don't
> > want a big ash snake coming out of your Hudson, but the ingredient
> > used to make the black smoke may be useful. Unfortunately, I have no
> > idea what they were made of. I wonder if one of these pellets could
> > be partially disolved in some Flyer smoke fluid to add some
> > blackening?
> >
> > Anyone else remember these snakes and their smoke?
> >
> > Steve Blancard
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17885 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Auctioneers lack of knowledge!
All,
You ought to be in Lancaster Co, PA, where the auctioneer quite often
parks his tractor to go do an auction. I've seen "runners" delivering
trains, sliding, clicking and banging together on the trays. Most of the
damage is done by the viewers, tho, with NO ONE watching what they do.
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17886 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Snoqualmie
I started my teaching career at Snoqualmie Middle School. That ##$T$***
steam train used to park right in front of my classroom to test the whistle
for a half hour!

They don't run steam on that line any more but do have some pretty cool
diesels. As bad as that area is, it is worth stopping to take some choo choo
pictures and get some ideas.

A really incredible place is between Portland and Salem Or. Lots of small
engines and streetcars.

If any of you ever pass through Moses Lake, Washington, you must not miss the
Museum of Poverty. It's owned and run by a former hobo turned junk metal
dealer. Amazing collection of trains and stuff like a Stanly Steamer, a
presidential passenger car, and the last locomotive from the Alaskan Railroad.

Jacques
Group: S-Trains Message: 17887 From: af21115 Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Special Rail
The track power strip in appearance is exactly like the later
standard track power strips that Gilbert offered in the later years
with cars such as the 25042. The only difference is that its tabs are
a tad shorter at 1 1/2" to enable it to be clipped to the PM track
ties, where the standard track power strips had tabs 1 7/8" long.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17888 From: Dan Brindell Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Train oriented family resort
Well, I was keeping it short because I assumed you already knew the area.
All that is located in Lancaster County, PA. Willow Valley resort is
about 10 miles south of Lancaster and the rest of the things I mentioned are
not more than a 20-minute drive away. There is just TONS of stuff to do for
people of all interests.

Check out:
http://www.padutchcountry.com/attractions/index.asp
http://www.800padutch.com/mem-att.shtml
http://www.amishnews.com/attractions.htm

I can guarantee that the kids will love:
http://www.handsonhouse.org/
http://www.800padutch.com/z/sturgispretzel.htm

and the train fans will enjoy (all of these are within a 5-minute drive of
each other!):
http://www.strasburgrailroad.com/
http://www.rrmuseumpa.org/
http://www.traincollectors.org/toytrain.html
http://www.choochoobarn.com/
http://www.redcaboosemotel.com/

and outlet shopping for the ladies (and gentlemen too, I guess):
http://www.800padutch.com/mem-out.shtml

Sheesh, I should put up my own website on this. By the way, I have no
interest, financial or otherwise, in any of the above. You just tapped into
a vein of enthusiasm, that's all. If you call 1-800-VISIT-PA they will send
you free maps and literature, too.

One caution on Willow Valley. It is a nice family resort and has lots of
fun activities for kids, including swimming pools. It has great buffet
breakfasts and dinners too. Only problem is, it gets a somewhat crowded
during the summer. Lots of kids (you did say ages 4 to 60, right?) It can
be a bit pricey too. If you are looking for a peaceful, quiet, restful
vacation, or a good price, you may want to stay at one of the camping spots
or b-n-b's in the area instead (of which there are many, see the websites
above).

Dan B.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Ervin" <pjervin@...>
To: "Dan Brindell" <dbrindell@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Train oriented family resort


> Dan,
>
> Can't say that I knew about Willow Valley and I h\never realized those
> other train places were so close together.
>
> Pete E.
>
> At 12:01 AM 2/26/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Check out Willow Valley Resort at www.willowvalley.com.
> >It is located near Lancaster, PA and has quite a few neat things to do
for
> >kids. It is also quite close to Strasburg, PA, which has the Strasburg
> >Railroad, the Railroad Musuem of PA, the Toy Train Museum, the Red
Caboose
> >Motel, and so on. But if you live in Cumberland, you probably know this
> >already, right?
> >
> >Dan B.
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Peter Ervin" <pjervin@...>
> >To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 2:05 AM
> >Subject: [S-Trains] Train oriented family resort
> >
> >
> > > It's my turn to plan our extended family's Spring 2003 family get
> > > together. We pick a place in the middle Atlantic states. The age
range
> >of
> > > those attending is from 4 to 60. Does anyone know of a nice resort
> >located
> > > at or close to a train place?
> > >
> > > Pete in Cumberland, MD
> > >
> > >
> > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> > >
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> >s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17889 From: notcoldenough Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
I just received a Lionel gabe in the mail today. Bought it over MTH
because: 1) it turns the lights on when GAbe reaches the top and 2)
it's shipping box is nicer looking than MTH since it is "retro" Flyer
(nice blue & yellow box).

As some others mentioned before, it has trouble going up (operated
from a 100 watt 4B). Pressing the button once makes the solenoid
operate, but it doesn't consistently move Gabe up a rung on the
ladder like I anticipated. Takes about 50 rapid fire taps on the
button to get gabe up all the way. Haven't tried it on a bigger
transformer yet.

In my case, I enjoy fixing Flyer operating accessories almost more
than operating them. Much to my excitement, Gabe has moved to the
head of the list of equipment to tear apart & fix!

It's becoming apparent that Lionel and MTH aren't competitors in the
same market place for Gabe (as I once thought). Lionel's targeted
market for Gabe is us fixer-uppers while MTH's target market is
operators!

John G


--- In S-Trains@y..., "Bente Velapoldi" <velapoldi@n...> wrote:
> Hi:
> Note that we have had one or two sparse comments about Gabe
accessory,
> Flyonel vs MTH. Does anyone have list of pros and cons for both,
and
> head to head competition?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17890 From: Dan Brindell Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID
Check out:
http://www.americantradition.com/moreinfo.cfm?item=312&cat=Novelties
The price has gone up a bit since you were a kid.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex" <alexmm@...>
To: "'crustyfour'" <splitdorf@...>
Cc: "S-Trains (E-mail)" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 9:36 AM
Subject: RE: [S-Trains] Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID


>
> I remember those snakes Steve! Used to order 'em from the Johnson and
Smith
> catalog, for ten cents. Still have the catalog. Thanks for the memories.
>
> == Alex in Maine
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: crustyfour [mailto:splitdorf@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 9:00 AM
> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [S-Trains] Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID
>
>
>
> Mike asks:
> > > >I have had a request to have my smoke fluid produce black smoke.
> > > >Do the studios ever color their "Fog"?
>
>
> I remember as a kid playing with a type of fireworks we called
> a "snake". It was a pellet that you lit with a match. It produced
> thick black smoke and a long "snake" of ash. Obiviously you don't
> want a big ash snake coming out of your Hudson, but the ingredient
> used to make the black smoke may be useful. Unfortunately, I have no
> idea what they were made of. I wonder if one of these pellets could
> be partially disolved in some Flyer smoke fluid to add some
> blackening?
>
> Anyone else remember these snakes and their smoke?
>
> Steve Blancard
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@YahooGro
ups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17891 From: Bill Lane Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Pennsy S Models X-29 Update
Hi Everyone,

I am VERY happy to announce that the photos of the second X-29 pilot model
have been posted to our website. www.pennsysmodels.com It is MUCH improved
over the first pilot model that was hand built from scratch in 5 weeks. You
can compare as we have left photos of the first pilot model on the same
page. The punched rivets are clean and tight for that added third dimension.
Our punched rivets are a first in S Scale. We are going to produce the
Railway Express version first, followed by the freight versions.

We have also added information on our second project, the PRR G-26 and G-26a
gondola. Dan and I would like to thank our current customers for their
patience as we find our way through our first project. We still have a few
cars available if you are interested. The X-29 order form is available as a
PDF download file on the first page. Please fell free to call or email us
with any questions you may have.

Thank You

Bill Lane Dan Mastrobouno
Pennsy S Models
Group: S-Trains Message: 17892 From: Dan Brindell Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Tinplate definition
Of course, it is true that the track was tinplated, but the trains were
tinplated too.

Check out:
http://www.tinplatetoys.co.uk/
You will find a whole website devoted to tinplate toys, and not a rail in
sight. They are called tinplate because the steel was plated with tin
before painting, just like a tin can for food or paint. So-called "tin"
cans are really steel that is tinplated before painting or labeling.

I THINK the reason it is tinplated, even though it is painted, is to prevent
rust, and maybe also to provide a smoother surface for painting. If not for
the tinplating, the smallest scratch would start to rust very quickly. With
tinplating, you have to get a serious gouge, or years of playwear, before
you get through the paint and tin and start rusting.

Some cars today have galvanized body panels to prevent rust. The plating is
zinc instead of tin but the idea is the same. You plate it before you paint
it.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Thompson" <robin@...>
To: "Dan Brindell" <dbrindell@...>
Cc: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 8:50 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Tinplate


> Are you guys sure it wasn't called tinplate because of the track? Why
would you
> tinplate steel that you were going to lithograph or paint?
> Don
>
> -- -- Don Thompson
> S Helper Service Inc.
> http://www.showcaseline.com
> 1.800.465.0303
> New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
> http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17893 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: S-gauge Video Vol. IV
Hi Steve,

Bring some of your videos to the BIG Ogden Utah train show this weekend
and I guarantee you will sell one to every member of our American Flyer Club.

Boise Idaho is not far from Ogden Utah.

Thanks,

Wayne Broadhead

boss31@... wrote:
>
> Just wanted to repeat this posting of Feb 22 for those that may not have seen
> it. We will begin shipping these on March 8th.
>
> This one has some absolutely terrific video of the tour layouts from
> Steamtown 2001 convention. This has not been seen before. Bill Fraley's, is
> just one of them. Intermixed with the tour layouts are bit by bit
> construction scenes of a highrail layout from bare walls to up and running.
> It covers a 20x24 area. It uses some unique construction techniques and
> materials. I think you'll find it interesting. This layout will be featured
> in other volumes to come as it continues to progress. It is at the point of
> one completed outer loop and even has the scratch built 7 stall roundhouse
> nearly completed thus far. Since I started editing for this volume it has had
> a second loop finished. At the end of this video will be a shameless act of
> commercialism on our part in that we show you how we manufacture the Can
> Motors that we sell for Flyer replacements and how to install one in a loco.
> All your wondering about how ugly/fat/stupid I look will be answered because
> they got me and Sam on the lens side of the camera for this part.
>
> Same price as before...$13 Ppd.
>
> If you're interested send the $$ to:
>
> Steve Blackburn
> 3239 Pepperwood Dr.
> Boise, Idaho 83704
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17894 From: The Reis's Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Snoqualmie
Another thing about the Snoqualmie is the former president (and now still a
big volunteer) is one of our Seattle S-Gaugers. I had heard their steamer
broke down and was being repaired, I should find out.

Jacques: is the one south of Portland the Oregon Electric Trolley Museum. I
am not sure of the name but I went there years ago when they were west of
Portland near Forest Grove. Lots of street cars and such. I knew they
moved.

Snoqualmie is at http://www.trainmuseum.org/

Another neat northwest website is: http://www.trainweb.org/railsnw/

Remember there is no one to visit with S trains in Snoqualmie either, except
Jacques to the east and Ross, Dick, Bill, Myself and a few others on the
rainy side.

Ok, Back to S trains, wait I did mention S in here, I'm ok.

Later

Eric Reis
Greater Seattle S Gaugers
Kenmore, Wa.



-----Original Message-----
From: Jollivier4@... [mailto:Jollivier4@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 6:48 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Snoqualmie

I started my teaching career at Snoqualmie Middle School. That ##$T$***
steam train used to park right in front of my classroom to test the whistle
for a half hour!

They don't run steam on that line any more but do have some pretty cool
diesels. As bad as that area is, it is worth stopping to take some choo
choo
pictures and get some ideas.

A really incredible place is between Portland and Salem Or. Lots of small
engines and streetcars.

If any of you ever pass through Moses Lake, Washington, you must not miss
the
Museum of Poverty. It's owned and run by a former hobo turned junk metal
dealer. Amazing collection of trains and stuff like a Stanly Steamer, a
presidential passenger car, and the last locomotive from the Alaskan
Railroad.

Jacques

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17895 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Gabe
> You mean to say that neither remake turns on the
>lights automatically when gabe reaches the top?

How did you read that?
The Flyonel turns the lights on automatically.
It's the only way to turn them on or off.
It's a pain because you have to step through the whole cycle just to switch
off a light.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17896 From: drgw489@aol.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: John Huster
John Huster,

If you're on this list, would you please contact me off line?

Wayne Hills
drgw489@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 17897 From: ron inscho Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Tinplate definition
Instead of Hi Rail or Tinplate lets try something new How about Scale Plate
??????
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17898 From: David Dewey Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Tinplate definition
Hmm, this keeps up, think I'm gonna need "Armor Plate" !
:-)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17899 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Highrail for sure
I think when you take your 3 or 4 erector sets and build an elevated railway
with the station built with erector& erector bridges, trestles etc. That is
the real highrail. Check out the Erector bridge in VOL 2 or 3 of Steve's
video's.
My Story: I got an AF set for Xmas one year because my brother-in-law bought
a bunch of electrical supplies & that was their incentive. He still has the
new in the box 343 set. I got an Atlantic. Every birthday & X- Mas I asked
everyone that were going to buy me something to go in together and get me
anything Gilbert. I remember the first pair of manual SW's always wanted
remote (That may be the reason I can't pass up a pair for $30.00 or less now)
I don't know what happened to MY set but got another one 20 years ago. just
set it on a shelf. Bought a Lionel Army set at a thrift store 4 years ago,
took it to a train store & traded it for Flyer. It was on from that point. My
son then bought the Nickel Plate Set of Geeps. I bought every box of "JUNK"
that store had right to this day. The End Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17900 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: REPLY
It is bad enough when a contributor to this list as experienced as Gerry
Dobbs hits "reply" and reposts the entire 25 message digest. It is pathetic
when a second experienced member, Bob Conner, repeats the process by
replying to Gerry and including his post with the whole digest over again.

How much crap do we have to wade through for these thoughtless posts guys?
Stop using the damn reply button or set your mail program to NOT include a
copy of the incoming post with the outgoing. We've been all over this on
this list before. This is basic Netiquette 101.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17901 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Re: Tinplate definition
Or Armor All Mike S.
PS Linda working the night shift?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17902 From: aztecfan Date: 2/27/2002
Subject: Great clinic.
http://www.horailroad.com/clinic2/cl2_051.htm
This is the advanced link I save, try the beginning clinic. Looking
for brick to scan and make my own S size. Jim Sleeth
Group: S-Trains Message: 17903 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
I couldn't agree more with the statement below. I have had to fix a lot
of the rolling stock even, before it could roll on the tracks. Of
course, these repairs like drilling out rivets and replacing faulty
couplers probably do not enhance the value of the piece in question.

I am hoping that the 752A Seaboard coaler accessory actually works
because I have had it sitting here, but have not hooked it up.

notcoldenough wrote:

>
>Lionel's targeted market for Gabe is us fixer-uppers while MTH's target market is
>operators!
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17904 From: notcoldenough Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
last night I wrote => As some others mentioned before, the Lionel
Gabe has trouble going up. Pressing the button once makes the
solenoid operate, but it doesn't consistently move Gabe up a rung on
the ladder like I anticipated.

This morning I hooked the Lionel Gabe up to a larger transformer, an
190 watt 18B. Operated much better than last night when I had it
hooked to the 100 watt transformer.

This is consistent with other reports that a larger transformer makes
Lionel's Gabe work better.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17905 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: REPLY
Don't hold back Chris! Tell us how you really feel!
Ken


+

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 17906 From: af21115 Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: E-Bay In Your Face O/T
For those of you who use e-bay, you've most likely gotten your notice
about e-bays new policy on privacy, and the capturing of our private
and other information. In short they are telling us they will collect
our data and use it as they see fit with the exception of selling it
outright. Wasn't this just addressed by congress and they MUST give
us an option to opt out of this??? Personally, I'd prefer they pay ME
for my information if they are going to use it, or mind their own
business. I think I smell class action here....
Group: S-Trains Message: 17907 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
In a message dated 2/27/02 11:53:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
busyboy@... writes:

<< The Flyonel turns the lights on automatically. It's the only way to turn
them on or off. It's a pain because you have to step through the whole cycle
just to switch off a light. Chris Zizzo >>

Well, with the Chionel samples that I have played with, all one needs to do
is push the advance button one time again after the lights come on and this
turns off the lights. One does not have to take Gabe all the way down and
back. The Lionel Gabe does appear to work best at 18 v (and with reasonable
wattage).

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 17908 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: stripping paint from aluminum
Yow-BE VERY CAREFUL with aluminium!!!I use only MEK or
acetone-and use it outdoors, with heavy rubber gloves
and an apron. Rags, not abrasive pads. Any paint left,
i strip with Noxon or Brasso metal posish and a rag.
If yer repainting, clean the part with acetone. Zinc
chromate should be used to prime, but if you wipe the
part with white vinegar, wait 15 minutes, then rinse
with dish soap and hot water, you should have etched
it enough for the paint to bite and remain on the
part-john marganski

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Group: S-Trains Message: 17909 From: Gene Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID
I remember them also, They were available at the corner grocery (not supermarket)
store, along with the penny candy.

crustyfour wrote:

> Mike asks:
> > > >I have had a request to have my smoke fluid produce black smoke.
> > > >Do the studios ever color their "Fog"?
>
> I remember as a kid playing with a type of fireworks we called
> a "snake". It was a pellet that you lit with a match. It produced
> thick black smoke and a long "snake" of ash. Obiviously you don't
> want a big ash snake coming out of your Hudson, but the ingredient
> used to make the black smoke may be useful. Unfortunately, I have no
> idea what they were made of. I wonder if one of these pellets could
> be partially disolved in some Flyer smoke fluid to add some
> blackening?
>
> Anyone else remember these snakes and their smoke?
>
> Steve Blancard
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17910 From: Gene Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: BLACK SMOKE FLUID
When I was young and reckless, I took pertassium permaganate and added a couple drops
of 99% sulfuric acid to the crystals. Instant black smoke! I'd never try it today.

anormal1@... wrote:

> Thanks for all the suggestions. The snake thing is out. So I'm off to my
> local chemical store to find what might react with the fluid to produce black
> smoke but no residue. The people that asked for the black mainly run there
> stuff outdoors. I might try some reg. 30 weight auto oil that may produce the
> effect of a fouled plug & oil seeping past the rings. Mike S.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17911 From: hcopter52 Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Excessive Sparking
Enough of the Gabe thing already, sorry i said anything. Answer me
this- what causes and what can be done to stop excessive sparking of
wheels on locos or tenders? Will cleaning the wheels and track be
enough? What do you guys reccommend/use for cleaning. Thanks to all
for the advice on Gabe,John.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17912 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Gabe
>This is consistent with other reports that a larger transformer makes Lionel's Gabe work better.<

It sounds like Lionel made it to be run with a ZW transformer.

jfred






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17913 From: John A. Conant Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID (snakes)
--On Wednesday, February 27, 2002 10:31 PM +0000 S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
wisely declaimed:

> Anyone else remember these snakes and their smoke?
>
> Steve Blancard
>

Actually, Steve, I still had a few of those pellets around just last year -
tried one and it didn't burn successfully - too old, I guess - probably
over 30 years old. Not sure if I kept them or not... Anyway, my guess is
that the smoke is black from carbon soot (or maybe a carbon-sulfide, like
coal). Soot is black. It's also sticky. Maybe OK in small amounts????
Perhaps too much realism......

Regards,

John Conant

=======================================================================
jconant@... "An expert is a [person] who has made all
John Conant the mistakes which can be made in a very
Aerodyne Research, Inc. narrow field" - Niels Bohr (attrib.)
Billerica, MA 01821
(978)663-9500, ext. 292 FAX (978)663-4918
=======================================================================
Group: S-Trains Message: 17914 From: Chuck Smith Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
My favorite is to clean track and then oil it with your favorite light
oil. Some guys like Wahl Clipper oil. I prefer a drop of smoke fluid
for about each 15 feet of rail. With oil on the rails the sparks
diminish, even though you can wipe a finger on the rail and come up with
a black streak on the finger after oiling.

hcopter52 wrote:
>
> Enough of the Gabe thing already, sorry i said anything. Answer me
> this- what causes and what can be done to stop excessive sparking of
> wheels on locos or tenders? Will cleaning the wheels and track be
> enough? What do you guys reccommend/use for cleaning. Thanks to all
> for the advice on Gabe,John.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17915 From: Tim Brown Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: BLACK SMOKE FLUID
Hi All,

Caution!!! Potassium Permanganate (hope I spelled it right) is not as inert as you may believe. I know of one common household thing that will create a very explosive mixture when combined with the PP under certain conditions. Please know exactly what you are doing first by doing the proper research.

Be safe,

Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <stefengineer@...>
To: <anormal1@...>
Cc: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] BLACK SMOKE FLUID


> When I was young and reckless, I took pertassium permaganate and added a couple drops
> of 99% sulfuric acid to the crystals. Instant black smoke! I'd never try it today.
>
> anormal1@... wrote:
>
> > Thanks for all the suggestions. The snake thing is out. So I'm off to my
> > local chemical store to find what might react with the fluid to produce black
> > smoke but no residue. The people that asked for the black mainly run there
> > stuff outdoors. I might try some reg. 30 weight auto oil that may produce the
> > effect of a fouled plug & oil seeping past the rings. Mike S.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17916 From: Horn, David Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: black smoke snakes
Yes, boy do I remember those black smoke snakes. They used to come in a
little yellow box I believe. Anyway, many years ago when I was only 6 or 7,
good friends of ours came over for dinner. Their dad was a chemist and he
had one of these things with him (before they became widely available). He
decided to set it off on the dining room table as a surprise to my mom.
Surprise he did, as the snake furiously expanded itself around the casserole
dishes and other tableware, all the while coating the dining room ceiling
with a heavy black sooty substance! It took weeks to get that stuff off.
They're still best friends of the family, and now (operative word) we laugh
about it together.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17917 From: Horn, David Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: coal, steam and other LVTS scented smoke fluids
Lehigh Valley Train Service (LVTS) used to make a wide variety of "boutique"
scented smoke fluids. I still contend their S-gauge smoke fluid is/was the
best ever made except for truly original ACG Flyer fluid. Way better than
SuperSmoke. A year or two ago I spoken with the proprietor over the phone a
couple of times (a very sociable Civil War enthusiast). It turns out he got
the contract for MTH Proto-Smoke and proceeded to drop all his niche
products. But he used to offer coal, steam, O-gauge, S-Gauge, Christmas,
and other scents. I tried a couple/few, but found the S-Gauge to be the
best.

PS The MTH fluid isn't bad, just not as optimally formulated for Flyer
steamers - - a little on the thin side, but what I use when not running the
remain amounts of S-Gauge is still have left.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17918 From: Horn, David Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
John G,

Please let us know what you find makes the Lionel Gabe work more reliably.
I'm torn between the two.

In fact, I was once very intrigued (obsessed) about having and running a
Gabe (e.g. used to drool at the ACG LNIB jobbies some folks would haul away
with at York for $1200+). And then when the repro's came out the luster
some how came off the whole thing. Part of it was I asked myself just how
often to I really run my accessories (compared to running my trains)?
Perhaps the old adage about the desire or chase being more fun than the
capture has to do with trains as well as other things in life.

Anyway, I'm back to thinking "hey, a Gabe might be fun anyway", and I too
like to tune, tweak, and optimize my accessories like you. So if you
discover something about the Lionel model that boosts it's reliability, I'd
appreciate knowing what that is. Thanks.

PS Is it possible for the "great hand in the sky" to turn the lights off
without actually running Gabe up the ladder to do so (e.g. a small pick of
some kind used to trip a micro-switch?). Also, does the Lionel Gabe slide
down the ladder or take it one rung at a time?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17919 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Tinplate
In a message dated 02/28/2002 3:40:16 AM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> Hmm, this keeps up, think I'm gonna need "Armor Plate" !
> :-)
> S'
> David D.
>
>
> If this keep up, I'm going to need Valium. Call it whatever you like and
> define it the same. I call it all "S-gauge model railroading." That's my
choice and I'm sticking with it. How many of you would have been interested
in "Tinplate Model railroading" Vol. 1, 2, 3, etc.? Maybe the Marx guys, or
Huey, Louie, and D - - - -!

Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17920 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID (snakes)
I just have to add my two cents to the snake thing, and extend it to fireworks. One
advantage to living in Norway is that we can buy fairly good sized fireworks (if you
are 18 and above). In fact, for the millenium, we went to a party where they had
gotten a license to buy class IV fireworks (I think that is what they were), you
know, the same kind of rockets that we have in the US on the 4th of July, ones that
go whomp when you ignite them and they scream into the sky. This was even before
they go off!!! Well, I wouldn't do those - too dangerous and also they are quite
expensive! Leave them for the communities to buy.
Rance Velapoldi, Norway

"John A. Conant" wrote:

> --On Wednesday, February 27, 2002 10:31 PM +0000 S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
> wisely declaimed:
>
> > Anyone else remember these snakes and their smoke?
> >
> > Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 17921 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: BLACK SMOKE FLUID
Tim:
I agree with youjr comments on potassium permanganate. If you add a drop or two of glycerol to a pile of KMnO4, nothing happens for a few tens of seconds, then smoke starts, and it bursts into white hot flame, almost like a thermite "bomb". It is an extremely strong oxidizing agent and quite dangerous.
Rance Velapoldi, Norway

Tim Brown wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Caution!!! Potassium Permanganate (hope I spelled it right) is not as inert as you may believe. I know of one common household thing that will create a very explosive mixture when combined with the PP under certain conditions. Please know exactly what you are doing first by doing the proper research.
>
> Be safe,
>
> Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17922 From: hcopter52 Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: Tinplate
--- In S-Trains@y..., boss31@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 02/28/2002 3:40:16 AM Mountain Standard Time,
> S-Trains@y... writes:
>
>
> > Hmm, this keeps up, think I'm gonna need "Armor Plate" !
> > :-)
> > S'
> > David D.
> >
> >
> > If this keep up, I'm going to need Valium. Call it whatever you
like and
> > define it the same. I call it all "S-gauge model railroading."
That's my
> choice and I'm sticking with it. How many of you would have been
interested
> in "Tinplate Model railroading" Vol. 1, 2, 3, etc.? Maybe the Marx
guys, or
> Huey, Louie, and D - - - -!
>
> Steve
> Right On! And thats the way it shall remain with me. Another can of
worms i opened up,sorry! John
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17923 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: stripping paint from aluminum
thanks guys. brake fluid worked out fine.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17924 From: ljack70117@adelphia.net Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1352
Last time I was there it was a large scrape pile of RR equipment turning
in to piles of rust. A great shame
Thank you
Larry Jackman

boss31@... wrote:
>
> The place you would surely not want to go is Snoqualmie Washington. It's in
> the middle of the real ugly Cascade Mountains and has so many steam locos of
> all type and ilk that you would really get bored looking at them. The train
> ride is really crummy too because of all those trees and lakes and streams
> and stuff. I'd recommend the Chicago El..
Group: S-Trains Message: 17925 From: tallcornac@aol.com Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: LTI American Flyer boxed sets
Anybody know of someone that is interested in the LTI versions of the
American Flyer boxed passenger sets, all in MINT condition unopened. I have
them all. NoPac, MoPac, Union Pac,WP and Silver Flash. I need to move them.
I'm just looking for fare market value, not to get rich. Thanks, Patrick
Koerner
Group: S-Trains Message: 17926 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Coal Loader
Hello All
I have a question about the MTH coal loader. Mine hangs up almost everytime
I try to send it back down after dumping the coal into the bin. I find that
the carriage is built so badly that the rail slips between the wheel and the
carriage frame. I tried to insert rings to maintain the wheel width, but that
didn't work either because the wheels have too much slop in them. Has anyone
else been experiencing this problem and have you come up with a solution. I
don't think MTH is going to be a good answer considering the impossibility of
getting a reply. I am experimenting with bashing an HO truck to see if I can
make it work by combining it with the carriage parts. I will report any success,
but maybe someone has already done something better that they can tell us about.
I also added thin sheet metal to the bin to keep coal from scattering when
the bucket lets go and that really works better.
My MTH Gabe has worked excellently and has taken more abuse than I thought it
would at the shows but I can't say much good about the MTH coal loader.
Howard
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17927 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
Enough on "Gabe" by Lionel and MTH. Lets hear what ya'all have to say about
the coal loader from Lionel. MTH's runs a little slow but there are sources
for a brass replacement pulley now. I found that Lionel's coal loader clam
shell jumped badly when activated and coal flew every where. Also ended up
turning the clam shell around (contacts facing away from tower). Wire
origially hit the side of opening into the tower, not allowing the clamshell
to go all the way in to drop coal and was cantered to one side. Lionel had
the wire going through the hook holding the pulley to the clamshell on. Now
it does not go through the hook. Clamshell goes straight in now, all the
way. Still dont like that jumpy clamshell though.
Anyone have anything to say about the new MTH #787 log loader?
Harwood
Group: S-Trains Message: 17928 From: Horn, David Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
Here I thought "enough" had been said about the log loaders - - OK, with
maybe a tweek here and there, but otherwise alright. Even the original
requires that now and then. Coal loaders - - the original is still your
best bet, unless you want to speed up MTH's 785, or modify Lionel's as
you've described (but still a jumpy clamshell doesn't sound good).

-----Original Message-----
From: HOwingsiii@... [mailto:HOwingsiii@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 7:37 PM
To: david.horn@...; S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Cc: NotColdEnough@...
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] RE: Gabe


Enough on "Gabe" by Lionel and MTH. Lets hear what ya'all have to say about

the coal loader from Lionel. MTH's runs a little slow but there are
sources
for a brass replacement pulley now. I found that Lionel's coal loader clam
shell jumped badly when activated and coal flew every where. Also ended up
turning the clam shell around (contacts facing away from tower). Wire
origially hit the side of opening into the tower, not allowing the clamshell

to go all the way in to drop coal and was cantered to one side. Lionel had
the wire going through the hook holding the pulley to the clamshell on. Now
it does not go through the hook. Clamshell goes straight in now, all the
way. Still dont like that jumpy clamshell though.
Anyone have anything to say about the new MTH #787 log loader?
Harwood
Group: S-Trains Message: 17929 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Learning electronics
Hi All,
does anyone know of a website that teaches the basics of electronics. I want
to start learning what some of this stuff is I'm playing with. E.G. What is a
capacitor and what is it used for in toy trains. That type of thing. Thanks.

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17930 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Gilbert HO Signal
Anyone know the value of a Gilbert #35710 Block Signal HO Scale. It is
mint in the box the box is about a 7. The plastic is torn. Thank You Mike S.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17931 From: mlmarmer Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: Learning electronics
Chris,

Try going to a search engine. I went to www.google.com and I keyed in
"electronics learn basics" and allot of sites popped up. Or try some other
description for what you are looking for you.

Good luck,

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD
Group: S-Trains Message: 17932 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: AF and Bachman ON3
http://www.caboosehobbies.com/reservations/lioneleb.htm
Early sale

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Group: S-Trains Message: 17933 From: Jerry Hiett Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: COLORING SMOKE FLUID (snakes)
Where have all you guys been lately, evidently you don't have any kids or grand-kids.
Snakes are sold at every fireworks stand around every June-July. My wife can't
go through the 4th withour burning 3-4 boxes of snakes.

jerry

>--On Wednesday, February 27, 2002 10:31 PM +0000 S-Trains@yahoogroups.com

>wisely declaimed:
>
>> Anyone else remember these snakes and their smoke?
>>
>> Steve Blancard
>>
>
>Actually, Steve, I still had a few of those pellets around just last year -

>tried one and it didn't burn successfully - too old, I guess - probably
>over 30 years old. Not sure if I kept them or not... Anyway, my guess is

>that the smoke is black from carbon soot (or maybe a carbon-sulfide, like

>coal). Soot is black. It's also sticky. Maybe OK in small amounts????
>Perhaps too much realism......
>
> Regards,
>
> John Conant
>
>=======================================================================
> jconant@... "An expert is a [person] who has made all
> John Conant the mistakes which can be made in a very
> Aerodyne Research, Inc. narrow field" - Niels Bohr (attrib.)
> Billerica, MA 01821
> (978)663-9500, ext. 292 FAX (978)663-4918
>=======================================================================
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>
>
>


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Group: S-Trains Message: 17934 From: srgriggs Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: Coal Loader
--- In S-Trains@y..., "Howard Sheffield" <hjinrosvle@l...> wrote:
> Hello All
> I have a question about the MTH coal loader. Mine hangs up almost
everytime
> I try to send it back down after dumping the coal into the bin. I
find that
> the carriage is built so badly that the rail slips between the wheel
and the
> carriage frame.


Mine did the same thing and I thought of doing the things you mention,
but I found something far simpler that seems to work. The rails that
the bucket carriage rides on are a formed from a sheet metal stamping,
so I simply squeezed the two rails together with my fingers just
enough to engage the wheels properly.

I'm anxiously waiting for someone to offer parts to speed up the
loading cycle (I understand Port Lines is working on a kit).

Scott
Group: S-Trains Message: 17935 From: Jerry Hiett Date: 2/28/2002
Subject: Re: Learning electronics
Chris,

I know it is in bad form to tell a computer user to read a book, but your local
library has shelves of books on the subject. If you want to keep the book, your
local Radio Shack has good ones written for the beginner.

jerry
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17936 From: TED R LARSON Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Divco
I received this very nice reply from the Divco club people.
Unfortunately, they do NOT have an S scale Divco truck (nor an O scale
version, nor an HO version).

Hi Ted-
I finally got clarification on the scales of Divco diecast models now on
the
market. They are as follows:

1/25 - Danbury Mint
1/32 - Ertl/Racing Champions
1/34 - Crown Premiums (this is a Dividend Series truck, not a snubnose)
1/43 - Road Champs
1/160 - Showcase Miniatures

We now have the information updated on our club website at www.divco.org,
along with a list of what the club presently has available for sale, and
a
price listing as well.

Thank you for your patience in awaiting my ever so slow response to this
matter. I appreciate your interest.

Les Bagley
________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17937 From: Mark Preman Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
The March list is posted at:
http://www.americanflyertrains.com

Some interesting new stock and......the PREWAR PAGE is
back! Mark

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

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Group: S-Trains Message: 17938 From: Horn, David Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
Skip this if you've had enough about Gabes. <If it's any consolation, I've
had enough about black smoke, but no one died and left me list monitor so
why even mention that.>

RB your comment about working best at 18v is very interesting. Up until now
enough wattage seemed the answer with little to no mention of voltage. Of
those who found the Lionel Gabe runs better with 100W or more, are you using
15v or 18v rated transformers? Does it work OK with a higher wattage 15v
transformer, or is 18v and higher wattage the whole answer? Thanks. The
four >100W transformers on my layout are 15v rated, so if 18v is key I'd
like to factor that into my decision.

PS The fact Gabe turns on/off the lights has me leaning toward the Flyonel
version, but the robustness of the MTH unit can not be denied. However, if
enough "kick" is all it takes to get the Flyonel unit comparable, then it
wins.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17939 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: The virtual growth of our hobby
What if I told you that there is a new growth area in the model railroading
hobby. Aficionados are young, vital and very enthusiastic. As in the early
days of S, they are improving basic models or scratchbuilding their own.
Layouts are huge. Most hobbyists do it all, from narrow gauge steam to
modern X-country freight, from commuter hops to Amtrak Acela. New engines
become available every day. Currently, a new Alco PA was just released and
a 4-8-4 UP Northern is all the buzz in the chat rooms.

I've been there. I've seen it. You can, too.
For a little taste, go to this on-line review of the PA.
http://leesome1226.tripod.com/AlcoPArev.htm
You may not get everything on the first read through, but savor it awhile.
Welcome to virtual railroading.
If you want more, I'll pass along some links off-list.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17940 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
My Gabe operated OK off a 50W flyer at full voltage of 15. On the
layout it runs off a 100W Flyer @ 15V. Only time it was flaky was with
the 50W @ roughly 12V (half voltage)on the 7-15V variable tap. I have
no 18V transformers unless you count an old Lionel 75W I use in a
dedicated DC supply.

"Horn, David" wrote:
>
> Skip this if you've had enough about Gabes. <If it's any consolation, I've
> had enough about black smoke, but no one died and left me list monitor so
> why even mention that.>
>
> RB your comment about working best at 18v is very interesting. Up until now
> enough wattage seemed the answer with little to no mention of voltage. Of
> those who found the Lionel Gabe runs better with 100W or more, are you using
> 15v or 18v rated transformers? Does it work OK with a higher wattage 15v
> transformer, or is 18v and higher wattage the whole answer? Thanks. The
> four >100W transformers on my layout are 15v rated, so if 18v is key I'd
> like to factor that into my decision.
>
> PS The fact Gabe turns on/off the lights has me leaning toward the Flyonel
> version, but the robustness of the MTH unit can not be denied. However, if
> enough "kick" is all it takes to get the Flyonel unit comparable, then it
> wins.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17941 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
In a message dated 3/1/02 11:27:19 AM, david.horn@... writes:

<< RB your comment about working best at 18v is very interesting. Up until
now
enough wattage seemed the answer with little to no mention of voltage. Of
those who found the Lionel Gabe runs better with 100W or more, are you using
15v or 18v rated transformers? Does it work OK with a higher wattage 15v
transformer, or is 18v and higher wattage the whole answer? Thanks. >>

Someone on the list with a ZW or 30B, a new Gabe on the variable tap, and a
volt meter could quickly settle the issue.

Although I've had the opportunity to happily play with several of the new
ones, I use the New Haven version, so please take my passing observations for
what they are. Judging by message board comments elsewhere, the Lionel gang
appear to be generally having good luck with Chionel Gabe when using ZWs (old
and new) and KWs as sources (e.g., 18+ V). My Flyer buddy in town has his new
Gabe operating just fine using a 30B ("rated" at 18 v). A Lionel buddy (Yes,
some of us do have them <g>.) is very pleased with his -- ZW-powered, again.
These cases are all with "fat city" power. However, the ones I played with
at my local dealer were powered with a modest-sized modern Lionel source (18
v) and both the MTH and the Chionel worked fine. This non-scientifically
obtained data all tend to suggest that18 v is desirable. These comments do
not completely answer your question, but I hope it helps.

One the other hand, my original climbs fine using the 16v tap of a 22004!
Go figure. <g>

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 17942 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
In a message dated 3/1/02 12:37:18 PM, cesmith@... writes:

<< My Gabe operated OK off a 50W flyer at full voltage of 15. On the layout
it runs off a 100W Flyer @ 15V. Only time it was flaky was with the 50W @
roughly 12V (half voltage)on the 7-15V variable tap. >>

Ah, good! Chuck did the required experiment. Thanks.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 17943 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
I've got both of them and I run off a 30B so power is not the problem.
The Lionel version has a mechanical issue where it goes up a little
when you press the button and then when you let go of the button it
drops back a ways, sometimes an inch, sometimes all the way down, so
you have to press the button rapid fire to get it to keep going up and
not get a chance to fall back. I'm sure that tweaking or bending
something is going to help this.

I think the Lionel version is better for the kids, since the light is
turned on and off automatically. The MTH version operates just like the
original in that it has to be turned on and off by turning the button
and the kids have some trouble with this and I'm sure they don't get
why Gabe didn't do it. "What was the point of climbing up there if I
could have turned it on myself?"

Both controllers are Flyer style. Once the Lionel version is at the
top, he can be lowered slightly by a momentary push of the down button
and then brought back up to turn the light out, saving going all the
way down and back up. Since mine falls back a bit on it's own, I don't
have to lower him at all to do this.

When I first set up the MTH version Gabe did have a problem climbing,
but it just required bending the ladder out away from the base a
little. Haven't had a problem since and Gabe climbs steadily each time
the button is pressed. I will keep this controller at the operator's
panel and leave the Lionel over by the visitor's panel. Let them have
the challenge!





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Group: S-Trains Message: 17944 From: notcoldenough Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Gabe - I just had to take it apart!
I just disassembled Lionel's Gabe this morning to see what makes it
tick and why it mis-operates. I posted a photo of the operating
mechanism in the files section, under the folder called "Gabe Lionel"
with filename "Gabeliftmech.jpg". You may need to view this file in
order for my comments to make sense.

The drum which winds the string has gears at one end which engage two
pawls (or locking levers). The top pawl is engaged by a solenoid to
raise the unit. It simply pushes one of the teeth on the drum to
advance it and then it returns to its original position. The bottom
pawl locks the drum in place so the drum doesn't unwind.

The man is released when an electro-magnet lifts the bottom pawl up
and disengages the teeth on the drum.

Both pawls press against the gears by gravity - no springs are used.
This is probably why my unit didn't operate well at first. The pawls
pivot on rivets and any binding may mean that gravity is not strong
enough to overcome the binding.

Many people including myself noted better operation on higher voltage
or with a higher wattage transformer. I suspect the higher voltage
snapped the lifting solenoid harder. This extra shock (in the
mechanical sense) was probably enough to overcome any binding of the
pawls.

After operating my unit about 15 times, it operates almost flawlessly
even on a 50 watt transformer. I suspect it took sometime for the
pawls to loosen up on the rivets. I also sprayed WD-40 on the two
pawls just to make sure they pivot freely. If your unit isn't
breaking-in, you may have to remove the shack & fiddle with the pawls
to get them moving freely.

Another quirk - After pressing the release button, I noticed it
sometimes took one (but just one) extra push of the up button to get
Gabe started. It turned out that the residual magnetism in the
release electro-magnet was enough to hold the release pawl in the
disengaged position. The release pawl fell back in place with the
first push of the up button. This doesn't happen all the time. I
suppose one could add a tiny weight to the pawl to prevent this.

Other stuff - A circuit board with a relay and some discrete
components (no integrated circuits) is located in the base of the
unit. The relay appears to operate the lamps.

Some have asked how the lights can be turned off. Several ways - 1)
Gabe goes to the top a second time, 2) When the layout power is
turned off, the unit automatically cycles to the off position, or 3)
you could manually press the two electrical contacts together at the
top of the unit (I wouldn't recommend this method since it appears
you could short the contacts to the metal ladder and possibly mess up
the circuit board).

Hope this helps

John Gasal

If any of this message seems to be nonsense, I will blame it on my
cat who walked across the keyboard a couple times while I was typing
this!
Group: S-Trains Message: 17945 From: Alex Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Re: Learning electronics
Chris, you may want to check out
http://webhome.idirect.com/~jadams/electronics/index.html.

I have taught electronics in the US Army, as well as at the vocational and
college-level settings. If I can assist you along the way, feel free to ask.
By the way, I'm a licensed FCC broadcast engineer, a CET (Certified
Electronics Technician), and hold an Extra Class "ham radio" FCC Amateur
Radio license too.

== Alex in Kennebunk, Maine

-----Original Message-----
From: Cbtrainnut1@... [mailto:Cbtrainnut1@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 8:35 PM
To: s-trains; Ccac6@...; JCLIF4@...; flick@...;
guckian@...; thartrum@...; pop41@...;
keninwillshire@...; boxcarsam@...;
e.ringer@...; wschnee@...; Shumbob@...;
Ricksmithsupply@...; jsyphax@...; dwhite@...;
twhite2@...; erecdan@...
Subject: [S-Trains] Learning electronics


Hi All,
does anyone know of a website that teaches the basics of electronics. I
want
to start learning what some of this stuff is I'm playing with. E.G. What is
a
capacitor and what is it used for in toy trains. That type of thing.
Thanks.

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Group: S-Trains Message: 17946 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Lionel and MTH Gabe's
Has anyone contacted QC at these companies to inform them of what
their products are doing? Sorry, but if I spend my money on something
I expect it to work. How many of us always ask "Does it run" before
buying a loco at a train meet? Unless you are looking for something
to fix, that is. Sorry, but I do not expect to buy a new product and
then have to "Tweak" it. I expect it to work! Guess I'll have to wait
till all the bugs are worked out with these accessories. John
Group: S-Trains Message: 17947 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Learning Electronics
Thanks to all that replied on the electronics basics question. I'm headed to
Radio Shack tonight and have found a site on the web thanks to Alex in MN.

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17948 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel and MTH Gabe's
I talked to MTH at the last TCA in York and they just shrugged off the problem I had
with mine.

hcopter52 wrote:

> Has anyone contacted QC at these companies to inform them of what
> their products are doing? Sorry, but if I spend my money on something
> I expect it to work. How many of us always ask "Does it run" before
> buying a loco at a train meet? Unless you are looking for something
> to fix, that is. Sorry, but I do not expect to buy a new product and
> then have to "Tweak" it. I expect it to work! Guess I'll have to wait
> till all the bugs are worked out with these accessories. John
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17949 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, March 3, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains
Group: S-Trains Message: 17950 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: ALERT
Watch out for any download from finalman@... he sends a
letter to you making it look like he knows you from this list &/or E-BAY has
a download it contains Trojan Horse & Sir Cam the Sir Cam is also known as
w32.Badtrams.b@mm Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17951 From: mlmarmer Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Re: ALERT
Better yet, just to be safe, block this address from your email system.

Mike Marmer
----- Original Message -----
From: <anormal1@...>
To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 8:40 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] ALERT


> Watch out for any download from finalman@... he sends a
> letter to you making it look like he knows you from this list &/or E-BAY
has
> a download it contains Trojan Horse & Sir Cam the Sir Cam is also known as
> w32.Badtrams.b@mm Mike S.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 17952 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: MTH Sawmill Fix
If you purchased an MTH Sawmill and it is binding, an
easy fix has been posted on their website at:

http://www.mth-railking.com/service/lloader.htm

Thanks to John Eichmann for the heads-up on this fix.

Joe

=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

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Group: S-Trains Message: 17953 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: U K group.
Who is our contact with the British group. My e-mail
came back as not deliverible. I wanted to find out if
their wheels might be usible for my 4-4-0 project. I
need wheels 1 1/4 inches at the back of the wheel. If
not I need a way to cut out tires from plastic to be
glued to my models tire. Look for picture of 4-4-0 on
our web site picture section. Thanks Jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 17954 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/1/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel and MTH Gabe's
John wrote:

>Sorry, but if I spend my money on something I expect it to work. I
>do not expect to buy a new product and then have to "Tweak" it. I
>expect it to work!

Those tend to be my sentiments too, John. But lately, I've come to
wonder if that isn't a somewhat unrealistic expectation, in this
hobby at least. Besides, if I look hard enough at something, I can
usually find some way to improve its performance. Then again, it
sounds like some of these problems (at least with the Chionel Gabe)
seem to be related to a possible need for a "break in" period. (And
by "break in" I don't mean altering the thing with a trash compactor.)

>Guess I'll have to wait till all the bugs are worked out with these
>accessories.

That may entail a long wait. In the case of Chionel, it's not a done
deal that these accessories will be offered more than one year, given
Lionel's past policies with some of their most successful operating
accessories. (I'm still waiting for a re-issue of the intermodal
crane.)

Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17955 From: ironhors@swbell.net Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Re: ALERT
anormal1@... wrote:

> Watch out for any download from finalman@... he sends a
> letter to you making it look like he knows you from this list &/or E-BAY has
> a download it contains Trojan Horse & Sir Cam the Sir Cam is also known as
> w32.Badtrams.b@mm Mike S.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Isn't there some watchdog that this could be forwarded to and it would result in an
effort to chase down and terminate such activity? Thanks for tipping us of it. DE
Group: S-Trains Message: 17956 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Lionel Gabe
On my Gabe there are two small (1/4") posts on the raised part of the
platform that the string goes between just after it comes out of the
house. On only one of those posts is a piece of clear soft plastic
tubing. I notice that the picture in the files section only has one
also. Are they all like that? Does anybody have tubing on both pins?

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Group: S-Trains Message: 17957 From: Clifford Manning Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: track trip
I am looking for a 25081 NYC hayjector track trip. If they are
available, who sells them?
Group: S-Trains Message: 17958 From: Jim Carnes Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
I hooked my Lionel Gabe to the variable posts of a 30B and observed Gabe's behavior
at various voltages. These are my observations:

At 5 volts there was no movement or sounds. Same until reaching 10 volts. At 10 volts
Gabe did not move but there was noise coming from the house. At 12.5 Gabe starts to
move but cannot make it to the next rung of the ladder. At 13.5, he starts to climb,
but sometimes misses and does not advance up with a button push. At 14 volts Gabe
climbs nicely, never misses. At 15 volts Gabe is working nicely. Starting at 15.5
volts, Gabe is starting to "pop" up each time the button is pushed. This gets more
noticeable as the voltage increases. At 17.5 volts, Gabe sometimes seems to slip back
after moving up. By 19 volts this slipping is more pronounced.

It appears that the sweat spot for best operation is 15 volts. The "slipping back" is
more pronounced at higher voltages. What seems to be happening is that the mechanism
in the house is advancing once, but Gabe is "popping" up with so much energy that his
momentum takes him up past the stopping spot, gravity then takes over and he falls
back until the string stops him. At 15 volts, Gabe moves up about one rung with each
button push and no noticeable drop back. At 19 volts, Gabe moves up about two rungs
with each button push and drops back one rung for a net of one rung up. Sometimes the
drop back is more for a net loss.

Jim

rbubeck327@... wrote:

> In a message dated 3/1/02 11:27:19 AM, david.horn@... writes:
>
> << RB your comment about working best at 18v is very interesting. Up until
> now
> enough wattage seemed the answer with little to no mention of voltage. Of
> those who found the Lionel Gabe runs better with 100W or more, are you using
> 15v or 18v rated transformers? Does it work OK with a higher wattage 15v
> transformer, or is 18v and higher wattage the whole answer? Thanks. >>
>
> Someone on the list with a ZW or 30B, a new Gabe on the variable tap, and a
> volt meter could quickly settle the issue.
>
> Although I've had the opportunity to happily play with several of the new
> ones, I use the New Haven version, so please take my passing observations for
> what they are. Judging by message board comments elsewhere, the Lionel gang
> appear to be generally having good luck with Chionel Gabe when using ZWs (old
> and new) and KWs as sources (e.g., 18+ V). My Flyer buddy in town has his new
> Gabe operating just fine using a 30B ("rated" at 18 v). A Lionel buddy (Yes,
> some of us do have them <g>.) is very pleased with his -- ZW-powered, again.
> These cases are all with "fat city" power. However, the ones I played with
> at my local dealer were powered with a modest-sized modern Lionel source (18
> v) and both the MTH and the Chionel worked fine. This non-scientifically
> obtained data all tend to suggest that18 v is desirable. These comments do
> not completely answer your question, but I hope it helps.
>
> One the other hand, my original climbs fine using the 16v tap of a 22004!
> Go figure. <g>
>
> RB
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 17959 From: Horn, David Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Re: Gabe
Excellent summary, thanks for sharing that with us Jim. With that
information, John's assessment of the mechanism with matching photo, and
others' tips the notion of optimizing a Lionel Gabe's operation now involves
much less guesswork than it used to. Neat. What a great list and group of
enthuSiaStS.

Happy railS,

Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 17960 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: More Gabe
In a message dated 03/02/2002 7:13:27 AM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> Someone on the list with a ZW or 30B, a new Gabe on the variable tap, and a
> volt meter could quickly settle the issue.
>
>

I run my MTH Gabe at 14v on my ZW. It just hammers him up the ladder. The
Flyonel one takes much more voltage. A TCA friend of mine locally that runs
the funny three rail stuff, couldn't get his Flyonel to work decently at less
than 18v on his ZW. He has never been satisfied with it and he bought an MTH
after he saw how well they worked. As I have preached, I have both amp. and
volt meters in line, so the information given is accurate.

Steve, in the wilds of Idaho


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17961 From: TED R LARSON Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Runaway
The March 2002 Reader's Digest has an article about last year's runaway
CSX freight in Ohio. The article has quite a bit of information that I
had not seen in previous reports. Good Reading!

Ted Larson
Space Science Wins Again

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002/01feb_anthrax.htm?list518340
Group: S-Trains Message: 17962 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Re: Learning Electronics
<A HREF="http://webhome.idirect.com/~jadams/electronics/">Click here: Basic Electronics.COM -- Internet Guide to Electronics</A> Pretty
good website, but I bought a decent book at Radio Shack for $5.99. It's
called getting started in electronics by Forest Mims 3rd. Even has a
detection circuit for trains and railroad crossings. Hope this helps. Here is
the URL if the link doesn't work.
http://webhome.idirect.com/~jadams/electronics/

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17963 From: ac312 Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Re: coal loaders
I've operated the Chionel unit at the local train emporium.
Like the MTH it is also slow. Took about 25 seconds to close the
clamshell and get back up into the elevator. Paint dries faster. The
original is still the greatest.
Also, oddly, the solenoid for the chute door is HUGE! It could
guillotine your S gauge figures or serve as a starter solenoid on an
old Chevy.
There aren't doors on either end of the shack, just a slot for the
string to come out. I do like that they included the wire links to
each corner of the clamshell bucket just like on the first issue of
the 752.
Like the sawmill from Mike or Chionel, the motor just doesn't seem
very 'robust.'
Once again, the original is still the greatest. Not a bad time to buy
one either as the prices of them seem to be depressed a bit. And
should you ever decide to unload (sell) the
reproductions . . . . . . . . lots of
luck. Especially if it's not (gasp) mint in the box.

Don
Group: S-Trains Message: 17964 From: ac312 Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Funny Thing!
Outlook spell checker keeps trying to change Chionel to 'chisel.'
I love it.
Don
Group: S-Trains Message: 17965 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel Gabe
I assumed the tubing was packing material and left it stored in the
box. My Gabe runs great without it at about 15V.

Scott Holm wrote:
>
> On my Gabe there are two small (1/4") posts on the raised part of the
> platform that the string goes between just after it comes out of the
> house. On only one of those posts is a piece of clear soft plastic
> tubing. I notice that the picture in the files section only has one
> also. Are they all like that? Does anybody have tubing on both pins?
>
> __________________________________________________
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--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17966 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Maunal Switch Fix
Hi Guys,

I've uploaded a couple pics to Yahoo in the photo folder 'Manual Switch Fix'. Here was the problem: Some of my manual switches lost the ability to conduct electricity to the rails when the frog is switched one way or the other. There is probably a very simple fix for this, but here is what I did instead:
1.. Drill a couple holes through the plastic reinforcement bar to accept a couple #8D finish nails. Solder the nails to the tabs that hold the rail in place.
2.. Run jumper wires from the long rail to the short rail for each nail. Grind little notches through the plastic reinforcement bar to accept the wires.
3.. Cut to length #6D nails and solder to the lower rail tabs.
4.. Screw and solder a vertical bar from the frog throw bar.
5.. Solder a couple horizontal bars across the vertical bar so when the frog is thrown one way, the bar overlaps the top and bottom nail. When the frog is thrown the other way, it overlaps the other nails.
You now have electrical continuity from the long rail to the short rail when the frog is thrown to the short rail. I used thin sheet steel, which was probably a poor choice due to corrosion. Copper may be a better choice. Also, please forgive my amateurish soldering. At least it works.
Hope this may help anyone with a similar problem.

Regards,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17967 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
Hi All,

What do you guys think of lightly oiling the track to reduce sparking? I have mixed emotions. I want to reduce sparking and perhaps lengthen the life of pick-up wheels before they become pitted, but I'm concerned that the oil may promote dirt pick-up on the wheels and necessitate more frequent wheel cleaning.

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Smith
To: hcopter52
Cc: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Excessive Sparking


My favorite is to clean track and then oil it with your favorite light
oil. Some guys like Wahl Clipper oil. I prefer a drop of smoke fluid
for about each 15 feet of rail. With oil on the rails the sparks
diminish, even though you can wipe a finger on the rail and come up with
a black streak on the finger after oiling.

hcopter52 wrote:
>
> Enough of the Gabe thing already, sorry i said anything. Answer me
> this- what causes and what can be done to stop excessive sparking of
> wheels on locos or tenders? Will cleaning the wheels and track be
> enough? What do you guys reccommend/use for cleaning. Thanks to all
> for the advice on Gabe,John.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17968 From: WNHOLCOMB@aol.com Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Painting Men
I recently acquired a 742 Handcar and decided to paint the two men since
about all the origional paint was gone. I used Testors model paint and after
six days it is still not dry, just tacky. I guess it doesn't like the rubber.
Has anyone repainted the handcar men and have a paint or procedure that works?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17969 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
BTW. The reason LIGHT oil works is (1)it doesn't prevent the metal
wheels from touching the rail but (2)keeps oxygen away from the contact
point. Too viscous and wheels don't make contact thru the oil. Not
viscous enough and the air gets to the contact and arcing still occurs.
Difficult to find the right consistency so use what works best for you.
I recommend smoke fluid merely based on my own layout experience using
Flyer, Gargraves and AM track and my mix of AF locos.
Note that I rarely run ACG AF diesels because they suck lots of current
and by now I have a large fleet of AM, SHS and Lionel with low current
can motors. The ACG diesels would exacerbate the sparking problem.

Tim Brown wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> What do you guys think of lightly oiling the track to reduce sparking? I have mixed emotions. I want to reduce sparking and perhaps lengthen the life of pick-up wheels before they become pitted, but I'm concerned that the oil may promote dirt pick-up on the wheels and necessitate more frequent wheel cleaning.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chuck Smith
> To: hcopter52
> Cc: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 11:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Excessive Sparking
>
> My favorite is to clean track and then oil it with your favorite light
> oil. Some guys like Wahl Clipper oil. I prefer a drop of smoke fluid
> for about each 15 feet of rail. With oil on the rails the sparks
> diminish, even though you can wipe a finger on the rail and come up with
> a black streak on the finger after oiling.
>
> hcopter52 wrote:
> >
> > Enough of the Gabe thing already, sorry i said anything. Answer me
> > this- what causes and what can be done to stop excessive sparking of
> > wheels on locos or tenders? Will cleaning the wheels and track be
> > enough? What do you guys reccommend/use for cleaning. Thanks to all
> > for the advice on Gabe,John.
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> --
> Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
> and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
>
> "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
> than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 17970 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: Re: sparking
Tim
I use a medium and fine sided sanding sponge to clean my wheels and track. I
tried the oil and spent more time cleaning the wheels and rail than I did
eliminating sparks. The sponge conforms to the wheels pretty well and even
gets rid of most of the pits in the wheels. Now I have very little sparking.
Hope this gives you another idea.

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17971 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/2/2002
Subject: SPARKING
I think that oiling track is a very bad idea and would never do it. There
probably is enough oil on the track anyway most of the time; why add more?

Putting smoke fluid on the track is even worse. That stuff rots away the
rubber bulbs in eyedropper bottles; imagine what it can do to pulmor tires.

If you keep your track clean with an abrasive rubber block, also called a
track eraser, and clean rags soaked with 92% isopropyl alcohol,sparking
will be kept to a minimum. A small amount of sparking is inevitable.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17972 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: Cleaning Old Track
I have a couple of large boxes full of track that needs a good
cleaning before I put it to use. I read somewhere that a good way to
clean track is with a stainless steel wire brush. I have had a
difficult time locating a stainless steel wire wheel for my bench
grinder, but have finally located one for $45 plus S&H. Before going
this route I thought I would ask for opinions on how to clean this
track. Most of it is dull with very little, if any, rust spots. The
ties are in good shape and the insulators are in good shape also.
I've got a couple of hundred sections to clean, so I'd like to only
do it once and do it right the first time!

Thanks for your help, BG1
Group: S-Trains Message: 17973 From: Paul Yorke Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning Old Track
--- bull_gator_1 wrote:
> I have a couple of large boxes full of track that
> needs a good
> cleaning before
<snip>
I would ask for opinions on how
> to clean this
> track.
<snip>
Check the FAQ section of S-Trains.com
I found 2 articles...
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/cheap_track.html
and
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/faq2.htm#track

=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17974 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: cleaning old track
I have gotten good results cleaning large amounts of dirty Flyer track with
a hand held wire brush with about 6" of bristles and a long wooden handle.
This is a standard hardware store item. I would clean badly corroded spots
with a small wire wheel in an electric drill. This would remove more metal
than wanted on places that are not seriously corroded. A stainless steel
wire wheel? You tell me.

Another method that is well liked is sandblasting (or glass bead blasting).
I have no experience with these.

Wear a serious dust mask when you clean old track. A common practice in
the 1950's was to make model railroad scenery out of asbestos, which stuck
to the track. Asbestos will kill you. Sawdust and glue was another common
method, and some glue dust is extremely irritating to the lungs. I got a
bad case of brinchitis once from the dust released by cleaning track.

Did someone say "tetanus booster shot"?

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17975 From: David Dewey Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning Old Track
BG1,
Save your money-and your track! First, consider that even with a bench
mounted wheel, you will have to handle each piece of track, and probably do
each rail individually. Now that we have the labor involved pictured, here's
my suggestion. Since your track is merely dull, with very few rust spots,
let's save as much of that protective plating as we can. Go to an Automobile
Paint Supply store (in this small town, there is a store that sells house
paints, but has a room of nothing but auto-body supplies). Ask for
"Scratchy-pad" and they should ask "Coarse, Medium, or Fine?" Get some
medium, for the rust spots, and fine for everything else. These will be a
pad, about 12" square (maybe smaller, I'm working from memory) and about
1/4" thick of an abrasive coated plastic webbing. You can cut them into
smaller sizes to make them easier to handle. Now set up a "production site",
i.e.: a well-illuminated space with a chair and a table with space on
either side of the chair for boxes, one full of dirty track, the other to be
filled with cleaned track. Set a piece of track in front of you and rub with
the rail, getting the top and inside edges of the rail clean. You should be
able to do both rails at once (labor saving!). If you have compressed air,
you can blow off the track before putting it in the "clean" box. If you can
get some of those dissectant (sp?) bags to go in the box to keep the track
dry in storage, even better! If you believe in Whal's Clipper Oil on your
track, wipe the cleaned rails with it, it'll help keep rust from forming.
(If you don't believe in the oil idea, don't, or do and wipe off the rails
with alcohol before using them.)
You should find the work goes quickly. The scratchy pads should cost
less than $20 total to do a whole lotta track, as it lasts a long time.
Ventilation might be a good idea, as the plating is a heavy metal, and who
knows what else is in the dust you'll be disturbing! Hmm, I'd wear a dust
mask at least--add that into the stuff to get while at the paint store!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17976 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: Re: Runaway (thread)
Ted Larson reports:
>The March 2002 Reader's Digest has an article about last year's runaway
>CSX freight in Ohio. The article has quite a bit of information that I
>had not seen in previous reports. Good Reading!

Thanks, Ted. I look forward to it.

I wonder though. Was there anything about a guy named Gabe, and how fast he
climbed a ladder? This group would find that to be Excellent Reading!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17977 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning Old Track
Hi All,

I've done the technique of spray painting old Flyer track with cheap flat black paint. I love it!!! [I've tried semi-gloss; I don't like the look.] I brush off any loose crud first, then line it up and spray it down, giving it a good soaking all over, sometimes even a second coat. Now this is important: you MUST wisk the paint off the top and inside rail edges with a wire wheel on your bench grinder (or alternate). Failure to clean off the inside edges will result in horrible run-time problems. It's also probably best to pull the rail pins and insert toothpicks during the painting process. IMHO, the appearance of the flat black track is superior to the original steel, even with rubber roadbed. It certainly revitalizes track I would otherwise never consider using. Track that is a candidate for this approach can usually be found under the tables at local train meets for a reasonable price.

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Yorke
To: bull_gator_1 ; S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Cleaning Old Track



--- bull_gator_1 wrote:
> I have a couple of large boxes full of track that
> needs a good
> cleaning before
<snip>
I would ask for opinions on how
> to clean this
> track.
<snip>
Check the FAQ section of S-Trains.com
I found 2 articles...
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/cheap_track.html
and
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/faq2.htm#track

=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

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All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17978 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: train trip
I took the Amtrak train from New York to Boston and back this weekend.
Very interesting trip. I rode Acela Regional , the new name for Amtrak's
old service. Did not ride the new Acela. The ride was quite rough,
despite all the $ the gov't has put into the line. The lights and AC went
out every 10 minutes or so on both trips -- guess that HEP system isn't up
to too much. The train personnel were totally great though, and made the
smoothest stops and starts I have ever experienced. Had to look out the
window to see if we were moving.

But what I want to tell you guys about is some interesting sights. There
are still a few tasty leftovers from the past.

In Sunnyside Yard in Queens, I saw an old New Haven Osgood-Bradley coach,
painted white, in some kind of work train service. This is the car that
Gilbert modeled as the 655 and 955. The roof vents and window openings had
not been altered. I did not know that any of these had survived
unmodified. But there it was!

Also saw the huge old concrete and steel coaling tower at Cedar Hill Yard
in New Haven CT.

Saw several old New Haven RR cabooses that had half their bodies cut away
but roofs left intact, in work train service. All the orange painted
Amtrak GP-7's (nicknamed 'pumpkins') formerly used in work train service
appear to be gone now. CSX diesels on the old New Haven looked out of
place to me, but spotted one pair still in Conrail blue.

The old PRR position light signals are still in use on the NY Connecting RR
(New Rochelle-Sunnyside) part of the route. This was surprising.

And it was a gas as always to ride across the Hell Gate Bridge (twice). My
wife was surprised to learn that it had been built by the painter Mary
Cassatt's brother.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17979 From: jfred436@yahoo.com Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#1708235662: 944 American Fly
I saw this item for sale at eBay, The World's Online Marketplace TM, and thought that you might be interested.I just thought it would be a good platform to put a kitbashed second tender body on. Couplers on each end and heave duty trucks.

Title of item: 944 American Flyer crane car base
Seller: genesimbolt
Starts: Feb-22-02 15:39:55 PST
Ends: Mar-04-02 15:39:55 PST
Price: Currently $13.49
To bid on the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1708235662


Item Description:
A #944 American flyer crane Car base that has a nice set of trucks with Knuckle couplers, as pictured below. Overall good shape. Great to run as is or ORIGINAL parts for repair, replacement or custom work. JUST PICKED UP A TON OF PREWAR STD & O GA PARTS SO be sure to visit and bid on the rest of my auctions this week and in the weeks to follow. Winning bidder please email your name, shipping address and item description within three days of auction end. Buyer pays USPS Priority mail and insurance. Yes to BidPay, No to pay pal.



Visit eBay, The World's Online Marketplace TM at http://www.ebay.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17980 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, March 3, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains
Group: S-Trains Message: 17981 From: lou342ac Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: Conversion
To The Group,
Are you destroying collectible/historical items when you convert
link couplers to knuckle? I have thought about this quite often. I
have a fair amount rolling stock & engines with link couplers. I
would love to have the flexibility with mixing and matching my old
Flyer stuff with my newer stock but I just haven't been able to bring
myself to knock those old pins out. Your comments will be appreciated.
Lou
Group: S-Trains Message: 17982 From: Robert Wight Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: Conversion
I dont know if you would care for this idea, but this is what I do. I get
the gondola cars because they are very inexpensive and I dont care for them
alot. Then I change one coupler to KNUCKLE. Then I can use either link or
Knuckle with any Engine. I can mix or match links and Knuckles using these
Gondola's without having to change any of my collectables. Anyway It works
for me.
Happy Railroading
Bob Wight


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 17983 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: rocket freight
Have a one owner (me) Rocket freight set for sale or trade. E-mail me offline
for details.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17984 From: bassflyer Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: Got my Lionel-Flyer Gabe today......
Picked up my Gabe today finally,..it has been in for a couple of
weeks. Hooked it up to a 1-1/2B transformer, and at full juice seems
to work quite well. My daughter says, "It's fun to go up and down!",
and she likes it when he slides down the ladder. It will be dark soon
and we'll see how Gabe lights up my small "Fall", now "Spring" layout.
Hmmmmm....need to clean the leaves off the building roofs!!
Oops! Time for chat!!

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17985 From: Clifford Manning Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: replacement or repair
Does anyone have a replacement for the eccentric crank on a 312 or know
anyone who has repair parts for one. My top loop that attaches to the
engine was broken long ago, so it is off in a bottle to be repaired.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17986 From: ded1939 Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: Sunday chat
Where was the west coast? John4flyer and I signed off at 2315 eastern
time.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17987 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
Tim Brown wrote:
>What do you guys think of lightly oiling the track to reduce sparking? I
have mixed emotions. >I want to reduce sparking and perhaps lengthen the
life of pick-up wheels before they >become pitted, but I'm concerned that
the oil may promote dirt pick-up on the wheels and >necessitate more
frequent wheel cleaning.

Lately some of the old issues are coming round again. I guess if you stay
on this list long enough, its like working in a movie house. You start to
memorize the dialogue. We really need to put together a FAQ list.

Oil on rails is a very bad idea. Oil causes slippage. Oil eats rubber.
Oil attracts dirt. Oil impedes electrical contact. Oil on rails is a very
bad idea.

There is a product which has the beneficial effects of oil on metal rail
(rust fighting, oxidation preventative) while improving contact many times
over, completely eliminating, let me say that again, COMPLETELY ELIMINATING
sparking, and improving performance without attacking rubber or causing
slippage. I have recommended this product before and been met with a
general blank stare, after which everyone goes back to talking about how
great Wahl clipper oil is. One genius even suggested that there was an
abrasive in the oil that improved traction. An abrasive in lubricating oil
intended for the delicate machinery of a hair clipper! Urban legends sure
do die hard. Let me reiterate, oil on rails is a very bad idea. Stop
suggesting it. Positive anecdotal evidence notwithstanding, don't oil your
rails.

Use a product called Cailube. Those guys who have purchased it know I am
right about this. I have heard some of the feedback. It is made by Caig
Laboratories. www.caig.com . It used to be called Cramolin Paste. It is
a contact enhancer. You want the one with the bronze metallic color. It
wipes on vapor thin. It lasts forever. I have half a container left. I
got it in 1961. It is used industrially to minimize pitting and sparking on
contactor and relay points for elevators and subways. Buy it. I get
nothing from the sale except the satisfaction of knowing that your rails are
clean, and this issue is a dead one.

We don't need to re-invent the wheel. When a solution has been found for a
problem, the problem ceases to exist. I hope more of you will try this
stuff and spread the word until the momentum on it reaches a critical mass
and everyone knows about it. I should buy a case and sell it at NASG!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 17988 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: TRACK CLEANING
What I do to clean track is I use the Scotch Brite pads. I made two wooden
jigs to place the track on so you don't have to hold the track in your hand
while cleaning. The jigs are made with a 1x4 piece of pine. 3 feet long on
the board I took strips of molding that are wider than the ties. Set them
under the ties apply some woodglue then thru pre drilled holes nail the
molding to the 1x4 let dry . do this with curved & straight track. Now you
can clean them easier by laying the board on a bench or across you lap. After
cleaning I use Dexo-5 (similar to the stuff Chris Zizzo uses & may be the
same co.) or you can use contact cleaner from Radio Shack. This keeps rust
from forming & improves conductivity. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17989 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/3/2002
Subject: TRACK CLEANING
PS on last post: After cleaning wipe the track with a clean cloth.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17990 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: HANDLES
Will Richard Purnell Please contact me off list I lost your E-Mail address.
Thank You Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17991 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Cleaning old cruddy Flyer track
The best way to clean old track is to sell it to someone else cheaply and use
new track form some other manufacturer. After having used Flyer track for 45+
yrs. I got rid of it all and bought American Models code .148 flex track and
their three radii of curves. It's like a new world. As to the actual
cleaning, I/we cleaned the top and inside of the rails with a bench wire
wheel and the other spots with a Dremel wire wheel. You can "repaint" the
ties with a "Marks-a-lot" and come up with very good looking and usable
track. Our clubs layout is entirely done with this method. Nix on the oil, it
just helps to speed up the collection of gunk on the rails. Take the time to
clean all the gunk off your car wheels and that helps keep the track clean.
Over lubricating the locos and car axles is the major cause of gunk on the
track in the first place. Go easy on lubing, keep all wheels clean and you
will save many headaches with sparking wheels, etc. IMHO

Steve, in the wilds of Idaho
Group: S-Trains Message: 17992 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: $$$
Will Rance Velapoldi Please contact me off list Lost your E-mail Address.
Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17993 From: TED R LARSON Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Steam Engine
Ya just GOTTA look at this one..

--------- Forwarded message ----------

http://www.revoh.org:1234/towboat/


Required Railroad content, I'm sure there must be a steam engine inside
this tugboat.


Ted Larson
Space Science Wins Again

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002/01feb_anthrax.htm?list518340


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Group: S-Trains Message: 17994 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: TRACK CLEANING
I see some of you are going around and around again in regards to track cleaning.

All the advice I see given are OK, but the results are temporary.

I Built a layout in 1979 using AF and Gargraves track. I haven't cleaned the
track since, except for a spot once and a great while. I am using 300' of track and
several switches.
I treated the track maybe twice in all those years with a special oil. Note; I
said special oil.
Use another type of oil and you will have trouble. The only wheels I have cleaned in
all those years
are on my passenger cars. I have cleaned them maybe 3 or 4 times since 1979. I run
my trains a
lot in the summer. October to May they just sit there. In May I just turn on the
transformer and
away they go. Turn off the lights and there is no electrical arch under the wheels.
I sell a cleaner for removing rust with a minimum of hassle. No wire brush or
brillo pad needed.
I just use it on the running surface of the rails. The sides are supposed to be
rusty. Although most
of mine aren't. Use my cleaner with a toothbrush to clean the sides of the rail.
The rails will not be
scratched up as the other techniques will do.. You won't need sandpaper.
I also sell the oil. It WILL NOT gum up your wheels. Not even a little bit.
Other oils will.
I can make my American Flyer locos crawl without hesitation, even over switches.
:o)
I have sold the products to many members of this group. I have heard nothing
except positive
comments.
Any comments from my customers ?

Roger Hinds

See my layout at, HTTP://www.travel.to/cofa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 17995 From: Horn, David Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: sparking
I tried Wahls Clipper Oil, and was a "believer" for about a month. Then I
found non-pulmor engines slip too much (SHS engines included, and yes, I
only had a very very thin film of oil on the rails), and that it seemed I
was cleaning my tracks more often than ever. What I have found works best
is 3M green ScotchBrite pad on brass or steel pickup wheels, followed by 91%
pure isoproply on Q-tips. For the rails, if at first there's any built-up
gook, get it off with the green pad (erasers work, but it's best to vacuum
up the grit afterward), and then clean with 91% pure isopropyly on a cotton
rag. Cleaning them routinely with the alcohol helps to avoid ever needing
to use the pad or anything else more "severe". Run 'em if you got 'em.
Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 17996 From: Doug Peck Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: Cailube
<<Use a product called Cailube. Those guys who have purchased it know I am
right about this. I have heard some of the feedback. It is made by Caig
Laboratories. www.caig.com . It used to be called Cramolin Paste. It is
a contact enhancer. You want the one with the bronze metallic color. It
wipes on vapor thin. It lasts forever. I have half a container left. I
got it in 1961. It is used industrially to minimize pitting and sparking on
contactor and relay points for elevators and subways. Buy it. I get
nothing from the sale except the satisfaction of knowing that your rails are
clean, and this issue is a dead one.>>

Chris---
Website lists LOTS of variations of Caillube.....can you give us any more
info to key in on the right one????

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supplies
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours - Weekday Evenings from 7:00 PM to 9:30 PM
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-Free; orders only, please)
http://www.portlines.com
portlines@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 17997 From: jfrr54 Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: We're back online
Hurray, we back online. Let's get those questions and comments
rolling again.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17998 From: Horn, David Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: Caig products
Yup, I remember these from previous posts. If I remember correctly several
folks, including Tom J, were going to try them on numerous things from rails
to armature commutators.... any news guys? How'd it go with them? CZ seems
to be a believer.
Group: S-Trains Message: 17999 From: Fire Wood Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: 0-6-0T switcher on Ebay?
What's the history on these little beasts? Limited
production run or just plain rare?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1710846363

Regards,
Dave W.

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Group: S-Trains Message: 18000 From: Ms. Judy Messinger Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Fw:New Dockside Switcher
I saw the prototype of Terry Putt's at a train show in Monroeville, PA a few
weeks ago. I was impressed! Mentioned it on the Sunday Chat and several
were interested. Here's the info:




----- Original Message -----
From: "TERRY PUTT" <puttrain@...>
To: "joe messinger" <jmessinger@...>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: Switcher


> Hi Joe,
>
> The dockside switcher features, diecast metal body & frame : 5 pole can
> motor : prototype paint scheme : illuminated headlights : optional smoke
> unit and or reverse unit. This run will be only about 60 models available
> RTR only, but in AF compatable, DC-HR & DC scale. Prices will be between
> $200 & $250. Ordering info will mailed & emailed shortly. Models will be
> shipped in late april 2002.
> Joe you can forward this info.
>
> Regards,
>
> Terry Putt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "joe messinger" <jmessinger@...>
> To: <puttrain@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 11:19 AM
> Subject: Switcher
>
>
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I talked with you at a train show in Monroeville PA this past week end.
> You
> > showed me a prototype of a new S gauge switcher engine you will be
> offering
> > soon. I mentioned your engine on a S chat Sunday night and there was
> quite
> > a bit of interest in it. I didn't have enough information to satisfy
> > everyone. If it would be possible, please send me any details on this
> > engine such as cost, configuration, availability, etc. and I'll forward
> that
> > to the S list. Perhaps it will generate some more sales for you.
> >
> > Thanks, and good luck with your project.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Joe Messinger
> > Morgantown, WV
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> > http://www.hotmail.com
> >
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18001 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
Hi all:
Many list members wrote me about the specific product from Caig that would
do the trick.
To be honest, I'm not certain, so I wrote this to Susan Prenatt at Caig and
I will post her answer when it comes. My note to her should address most
concerns we have. Read it to see if I left anything out.
_______________________________________________________________________
Dear Ms. Prenatt:
I have had a tin of Cramolin Paste since it came with some tools in a house
we bought in 1961. It was nearly full then, and I was 13. It is more than
half full now and I have used it prodigiously, but sparingly. I think it is
one of the last century's greatest inventions.

I have been recommending it to my model railroading friends who talk with me
via an Internet mail list. Members come from nearby to as far away as
Norway and New Zealand. I recommend your product for relays, reverser
contacts, transformer wipers, power pick-ups and actually wiping down all
the rails to eliminate sparking and rough contact. This electrical noise is
particularly problematic now that our train controls have gone digital.

My question is that I don't know exactly which product to recommend, since
you have so expanded the line and changed the names. My version contains
the copper particles and has a heavy grease consistency. I am thinking it
is equivalent to either L-260cp or M-260cp.

What are the differences between the two and do you think this is the best
choice for our application? Power includes 0 to 20 volts, both AC pure
sine, DC smooth & pulsed and digital signal DCC modified square wave. Metals
involved include copper, berylium copper and brass contacts, hardened
contactor points, sintered iron and steel pickups and wheels, steel,
stainless steel, brass and nickel silver rail.

Additionally, each individual who wants some is facing a high one-time
price. Is there a discount for a case so we can ship them around ourselves?
We're private individuals in a train club, not a business. Every dime
helps!

Thank you for your time. I will post your answer on our S-Gauge Train list
for all to read.

Cordially,
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18002 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: testing - delete this
testing. sorry. thanks. Tom J
Group: S-Trains Message: 18003 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: TRACK CLEANING
Hi,
Would you care to tell us what this Special Oil is and the cleaner.
You didn't mention the price etc. The list does allow blatant ads if it
improves the train world we live in. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18004 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
OK, speedy service. Caig Laboratories is on the ball.
Susan Prenatt sent me a comprehensive answer, including more than you ever
wanted to know about conductive paste. Nonetheless, I have posted her
complete response below, and it is detailed.

My deduction, the M260CP is the product for us. It is mineral based,
provides lubrication, contains conductive particles and has a certain
metallic abrasive quality that does not impede traction. This is the stuff
I have and I love it.

As to ordering in bulk, I am woring out some of those details right now and
will have an answer momentarily.

Here is Susan's reponse:
______________________________________________________________________
March 4, 2002

Hello Chris:

Thank you so much for your recent inquiry. As far as the cost is concerned,
the products are available in the following manner:

M260 OR L260Cp:
1 oz jar: $8.50@ for a case of twelve;
8 oz jar: $18.95@ for a case of twelve;

2-3 Cases would be:
1 oz jar: $8.23@
8 oz jar: $18.35@

The issue that would be of concern to me for your members would be cost
incurred by the re-shipping process to distribute the individual jars.

The decision concerning whether to use the L260Cp or the M260Cp is
determined by your requirements. Since you will be posting the information
for other members to review, I will discuss the basics for making a decision
so that everyone understands the subtle differences in the two products, and
their respective uses. The grease(s) come in the following formulas:

Lithium based - More stable at higher temperatures, and more tacky
(surface needs protection, but is stationary); and

Mineral based form - More lubricating (moving parts).

The greases may be ordered with or without particles. Particles may be
conductive or non-conductive, and may be purchased with:

Copper particles: Abrasive & conductive;
Graphite particles: Excellent lubricant with heat absorption and
conductivity;
Quartz particles: Not conductive, but abrasive;
Graphite & Quartz particles
Aluminum particles: Can be made if required, or
Aluminum/Copper particles (is the norm for increased stability).

-------
*Note Underwater Application for L260:

It is compatible with rubber molded S O neoprene underwater cable
applications.

CaiLube TYPE M260, for electrical and mechanical applications from:
-40�C to +260�C.
CaiLube TYPE L260, for electrical and mechanical applications from:
-40�C to +260�C, high dripping point.

CaiLube TYPE M260 & TYPE L260 PASTES are manufactured in a semi-solid form
for use as a combination cleaning, protecting and lubricating preparation.
Pastes have excellent lubricating ability, protect against oxidation
(galvanic corrosion) and are free of mineral acids, sulphurs, alkalis and
other noxious components that may be aggressive to metals. Improves
performance of electrical contacts, collector ring assemblies, mechanical
components that require precise lubrication and reduces sparking of
commutator brushes.

Particles available:

CaiLube pastes are available with or without particles. Below is a brief
description of the particles available and their intended use.

Copper:
Helps break up oxides and corrosion (usually galvanic) on the surfaces.
Copper is conductive. Use in areas that two contacts will not touch and
possibly short. Example, disconnect switches and large connectors and
relays. Behaves well with bare copper.

Quartz:
Same purpose as the copper particles and will not conduct electricity.
Finer particles than the copper.

Graphite:
The graphite provides excellent lubricating and heat transfer
characteristics. Use where lubrication is vital and heat absorption and
dissipation is important.

Quartz/Graphite Combo:

Recommended when you need particles to assist in oxide breakup and you
require good best lubrication and heat transfer.

We ultimately want you to choose whatever formula is most beneficial for
you. Please contact me once you have made your decision at either
ssp@... or (800) 224-4123.

With kind regards,

Susan

Susan Prenatt
Technical Support/ Sales Division
CAIG Laboratories, Inc.

-----

Don't call her, guys. Wait for me a minute and I will see if we can save a
couple of bucks.


Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18005 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
Hi all:
Many list members wrote me about the specific product from Caig that would
do the trick.
To be honest, I'm not certain, so I wrote this to Susan Prenatt at Caig and
I will post her answer when it comes. My note to her should address most
concerns we have. Read it to see if I left anything out.
_______________________________________________________________________
Dear Ms. Prenatt:
I have had a tin of Cramolin Paste since it came with some tools in a house
we bought in 1961. It was nearly full then, and I was 13. It is more than
half full now and I have used it prodigiously, but sparingly. I think it is
one of the last century's greatest inventions.

I have been recommending it to my model railroading friends who talk with me
via an Internet mail list. Members come from nearby to as far away as
Norway and New Zealand. I recommend your product for relays, reverser
contacts, transformer wipers, power pick-ups and actually wiping down all
the rails to eliminate sparking and rough contact. This electrical noise is
particularly problematic now that our train controls have gone digital.

My question is that I don't know exactly which product to recommend, since
you have so expanded the line and changed the names. My version contains
the copper particles and has a heavy grease consistency. I am thinking it
is equivalent to either L-260cp or M-260cp.

What are the differences between the two and do you think this is the best
choice for our application? Power includes 0 to 20 volts, both AC pure
sine, DC smooth & pulsed and digital signal DCC modified square wave. Metals
involved include copper, berylium copper and brass contacts, hardened
contactor points, sintered iron and steel pickups and wheels, steel,
stainless steel, brass and nickel silver rail.

Additionally, each individual who wants some is facing a high one-time
price. Is there a discount for a case so we can ship them around ourselves?
We're private individuals in a train club, not a business. Every dime
helps!

Thank you for your time. I will post your answer on our S-Gauge Train list
for all to read.

Cordially,
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18006 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
OK, speedy service. Caig Laboratories is on the ball.
Susan Prenatt sent me a comprehensive answer, including more than you ever
wanted to know about conductive paste. Nonetheless, I have posted her
complete response below, and it is detailed.

My deduction, the M260CP is the product for us. It is mineral based,
provides lubrication, contains conductive particles and has a certain
metallic abrasive quality that does not impede traction. This is the stuff
I have and I love it.

As to ordering in bulk, I am woring out some of those details right now and
will have an answer momentarily.

Here is Susan's reponse:
______________________________________________________________________
March 4, 2002

Hello Chris:

Thank you so much for your recent inquiry. As far as the cost is concerned,
the products are available in the following manner:

M260 OR L260Cp:
1 oz jar: $8.50@ for a case of twelve;
8 oz jar: $18.95@ for a case of twelve;

2-3 Cases would be:
1 oz jar: $8.23@
8 oz jar: $18.35@

The issue that would be of concern to me for your members would be cost
incurred by the re-shipping process to distribute the individual jars.

The decision concerning whether to use the L260Cp or the M260Cp is
determined by your requirements. Since you will be posting the information
for other members to review, I will discuss the basics for making a decision
so that everyone understands the subtle differences in the two products, and
their respective uses. The grease(s) come in the following formulas:

Lithium based - More stable at higher temperatures, and more tacky
(surface needs protection, but is stationary); and

Mineral based form - More lubricating (moving parts).

The greases may be ordered with or without particles. Particles may be
conductive or non-conductive, and may be purchased with:

Copper particles: Abrasive & conductive;
Graphite particles: Excellent lubricant with heat absorption and
conductivity;
Quartz particles: Not conductive, but abrasive;
Graphite & Quartz particles
Aluminum particles: Can be made if required, or
Aluminum/Copper particles (is the norm for increased stability).

-------
*Note Underwater Application for L260:

It is compatible with rubber molded S O neoprene underwater cable
applications.

CaiLube TYPE M260, for electrical and mechanical applications from:
-40�C to +260�C.
CaiLube TYPE L260, for electrical and mechanical applications from:
-40�C to +260�C, high dripping point.

CaiLube TYPE M260 & TYPE L260 PASTES are manufactured in a semi-solid form
for use as a combination cleaning, protecting and lubricating preparation.
Pastes have excellent lubricating ability, protect against oxidation
(galvanic corrosion) and are free of mineral acids, sulphurs, alkalis and
other noxious components that may be aggressive to metals. Improves
performance of electrical contacts, collector ring assemblies, mechanical
components that require precise lubrication and reduces sparking of
commutator brushes.

Particles available:

CaiLube pastes are available with or without particles. Below is a brief
description of the particles available and their intended use.

Copper:
Helps break up oxides and corrosion (usually galvanic) on the surfaces.
Copper is conductive. Use in areas that two contacts will not touch and
possibly short. Example, disconnect switches and large connectors and
relays. Behaves well with bare copper.

Quartz:
Same purpose as the copper particles and will not conduct electricity.
Finer particles than the copper.

Graphite:
The graphite provides excellent lubricating and heat transfer
characteristics. Use where lubrication is vital and heat absorption and
dissipation is important.

Quartz/Graphite Combo:

Recommended when you need particles to assist in oxide breakup and you
require good best lubrication and heat transfer.

We ultimately want you to choose whatever formula is most beneficial for
you. Please contact me once you have made your decision at either
ssp@... or (800) 224-4123.

With kind regards,

Susan

Susan Prenatt
Technical Support/ Sales Division
CAIG Laboratories, Inc.

-----

Don't call her, guys. Wait for me a minute and I will see if we can save a
couple of bucks.


Chris Zizzo


Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18007 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Bachman On30
I see where they are going to do a neat 2 truck shay this fall in on30...we
have got to find a way to convert...I think I will try to redo a flat
car...wonder if you could cut the axels in two...add a spacer to re
guage...similar work on the truck frame..."s" flat...If this works could we
then do similar things to the existing steamer???? Anybody done this? Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 18008 From: ron inscho Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: 0-6-0T switcher on Ebay?
they were made from 1958 to 1960 in three variations #21155 black w/smoke&
choo-choo & e unit # 21156 black w/two pos. e unit # 21158 blue & no e
unit . While somewhat interesting all were poor runners, motor is like that
used in the baldwin switcher & is overheated easily , but will runat least
900 mph with out any cars. If you are looking for a tank engine to run I
suggest looking at the REX 0-4-0 it is a good running eng. & better
proportioned in size as the Gilbert 0-6-0 is way too large. Ron
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18009 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: 0-6-0T switcher on Ebay?
Nice to know the current value of my locos. Sheesh! If I sold all my AF trains
I could by an awful lot of trains in another scale and have a lot of money left over.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18010 From: Horn, David Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] RE:sparking
I'm glad for those who like your method Roger, but my rails and wheels were
clean enough to eat off of and I tried numerous ways of applying very
limited amounts of oil as you've pointed out, even wiped the rails off with
a clean cotton cloth to ensure only the thinnest of films as a last resort.
Still I prefer 'em dry and kept clean with 91% iso. Everything runs fine.
Different strokes for different folks. Dave


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18011 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: sparking
Just how much of the oil did you use and how did you apply It?
One drop on each rail is all I used, and I use 300 ' of track. And my trains
climb up a long winding grades through mountains and tunnels.
I let my loco carry the oil around.
Let me clarify what I mean, only 2 drops of oil for the whole layout.
If I had a small layout I would use the tip of a pin to apply the oil. Only a
fraction of a drop on each rail will work A full drop will be to much.
I get the feeling you rubbed a thin layer of oil on all your rails.
That will cause big problems. WAYyyyyyy to much oil.
Why did things gum up for you afterwards?
Did you clean the rail before applying the oil?
And did you clean the wheels thoroughly on all of your rolling stock?
If the answers are NO, then what happened later?
The Clipper oil worked on all the gummy wheels or rails, and the guck
spread around as it came loose and made a mess of the wheels and rails again.
Another words, the Clipper oil will only work if everything is cleaned of the
old gunk first. I mean totally clean. I guarantee the results will be great.
There are other factors that will cause gummy rails.
Smoke. Engine smoke is evaporated oil. It won't do your rails any good.
Giggaret ,cigar smoke will cause problems.
Dust. this clings to the rails causing problems. If your layout room has a rug
or a floor above (with no ceiling) Or a laundry room nearby. Then you will have
lots of dust.
Moisture. Is your layout in a cellar? Are you running a humidifier? Laundry
Room or bath nearby? Use a dehumidifier.

Everyone that bought Whal clipper oil from me got detailed instructions on how to
achieve results with no problems.

Roger Hinds

"Horn, David" wrote:

> I tried Wahls Clipper Oil, and was a "believer" for about a month. Then I
> found non-pulmor engines slip too much (SHS engines included, and yes, I
> only had a very very thin film of oil on the rails), and that it seemed I
> was cleaning my tracks more often than ever. What I have found works best
> is 3M green ScotchBrite pad on brass or steel pickup wheels, followed by 91%
> pure isoproply on Q-tips. For the rails, if at first there's any built-up
> gook, get it off with the green pad (erasers work, but it's best to vacuum
> up the grit afterward), and then clean with 91% pure isopropyly on a cotton
> rag. Cleaning them routinely with the alcohol helps to avoid ever needing
> to use the pad or anything else more "severe". Run 'em if you got 'em.
> Dave
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18012 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
OK boys, here's the bottom line: $25 from each person who would like a jar
of this stuff.
It will last you indefinitely.

Susan Prenatt of Caig Labs writes:

March 5, 2002

Hi Chris:

Yes, the 8 oz jar would fit the Priority mail one pound criteria, and I
agree with you completely concerning the pricing. The product will remain
stable for quite a while---so, as long as people are handling it without
contaminating the jar, it will be fine.

We do ship to individuals, however, your scenario would be less fuss and
muss, and less expensive for each of your colleagues. The total shipping
for the 12-jars would be $7.73.

Kind regards,

Susan

-----
From: Chris Zizzo [mailto:Busyboy@...]
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 4:54 PM
To: Susan Prenatt
Subject: Re: L260Cp Vs M260Cp - S Gauge Train Application - Christopher
G. Zizzo


Thank you, Susan, for your rapid response.

>From your notes I deduce that M260Cp is the product we want. I presume
that
individuals cannot buy single jars from you, and that even if they could,
the shipping cost would be prohibitive. If I buy one case, I can
re-distribute it amongst our members.

I planned to sell it for what I paid, plus $3.95 Priority Mail. I assume a
single 8 oz. jar will make minimum Priority weight of under 2 lbs. The one
oz. jars do not seem to be worth buying when 8 times the amount costs
roughly twice the price.

If you could tell me what my shipping cost would be to Northport, NY 11768,
I can tell my friends how much it will cost per unit.

Thank you again for your attentiveness.
Chris Zizzo


----- Original Message -----
From: "Susan Prenatt" <ssp@...>
To: <busyboy@...>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 2:58 PM
Subject: L260Cp Vs M260Cp - S Gauge Train Application - Christopher G. Zizzo


> March 4, 2002
>
> Hello Chris:
>
> Thank you so much for your recent inquiry. As far as the cost is
concerned,
> the products are available in the following manner:
>
> M260 OR L260Cp:
> 1 oz jar: $8.50@ for a case of twelve;
> 8 oz jar: $18.95@ for a case of twelve;
>
> The issue that would be of concern to me for your members would be cost
> incurred by the re-shipping process to distribute the individual jars.

> Mineral based form - More lubricating (moving parts).
> Copper particles: Abrasive & conductive;
> Helps break up oxides and corrosion (usually galvanic) on the surfaces.
> Copper is conductive. Use in areas that two contacts will not touch and
> possibly short. Example, disconnect switches and large connectors and
> relays. Behaves well with bare copper.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18013 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: TRACK CLEANING? Oil
Since several people asked about the oil I will post the answer here.

I am selling the oil for $8.50 per bottle. It contains 4oz. of oil
The price includes shipping.
You will receive detailed instructions also.

Note; This is NOT for cleaning ! You have to clean your wheels
and rails before applying the oil

Send a check to;

Roger Hinds
c/o Crossroads of America
6 Trudeau Rd.
Bethlehem NH 03574


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18014 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: TRACK CLEANING
The oil is "Wahl clipper oil"
The cleaner which is great for removing rust and polishing all metals is
called "Colonel Brassy" This is $27.00 a bottle. It is a 16 oz. bottle
A note to all; I do not recommend to use either product for removing gunk.
You will just make matters worse. I use Smoke oil to remove gunk on the rails.
The wheels, I scrape off the gunk with a knife first. Then I use smoke oil to remove
the minute residue. Then I wipe off as much oil as I can.

A note I should have made in my last post. When oiling wheel bearings, be stingy.
To much oil on the axle bearings and it will run onto the tread which will get on the
track
and things will get all gummed up again.

Roger Hinds


anormal1@... wrote:

> Hi,S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18015 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: track
What about the substance that they use where aluminium wire and copper wire
join....you put the coating on to provide better contact...its in the
electrical dept. at stores...bob conner ( non cusser)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18016 From: mlmarmer Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: 0-6-0T switcher on Ebay?
But the real reason why they, like many AF pieces and sets made in 1958, are
rare, is because the United States was in a recession year. Spending by
consumers was down, so production will be down, not to have excess inventory
tying up company capital. And 1959 and 1960, still has rare items as the
recession is coming to an end, as spending and production in the US pick up.
AF probably never recovered from the boom days of the mid 50's, reason for
the coming of the cheap Pikemaster items, that didn't help AF survive very
long.

AF economics lesson for the day.

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD
----- Original Message -----
From: "ron inscho" <ronnat@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "Fire Wood" <fahrwud@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] 0-6-0T switcher on Ebay?


> they were made from 1958 to 1960 in three variations #21155 black
w/smoke&
> choo-choo & e unit # 21156 black w/two pos. e unit # 21158 blue & no e
> unit . While somewhat interesting all were poor runners, motor is like
that
> used in the baldwin switcher & is overheated easily , but will runat least
> 900 mph with out any cars. If you are looking for a tank engine to run I
> suggest looking at the REX 0-4-0 it is a good running eng. & better
> proportioned in size as the Gilbert 0-6-0 is way too large. Ron
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18017 From: SMASTER636@aol.com Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Track Cleaning
Here's what I use to clean my 47 year old AF track. Goo-Gone and a Scotch
Kitchen pad. Cleans and works great.

Joe Fariello


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18018 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Excessive Sparking
OK, speedy service. Caig Laboratories is on the ball.
Susan Prenatt sent me a comprehensive answer, including more than you ever
wanted to know about conductive paste. Nonetheless, I have posted her
complete response below, and it is detailed.

My deduction, the M260CP is the product for us. It is mineral based,
provides lubrication, contains conductive particles and has a certain
metallic abrasive quality that does not impede traction. This is the stuff
I have and I love it.

As to ordering in bulk, I am woring out some of those details right now and
will have an answer momentarily.

Here is Susan's reponse:
______________________________________________________________________
March 4, 2002

Hello Chris:

Thank you so much for your recent inquiry. As far as the cost is concerned,
the products are available in the following manner:

M260 OR L260Cp:
1 oz jar: $8.50@ for a case of twelve;
8 oz jar: $18.95@ for a case of twelve;

2-3 Cases would be:
1 oz jar: $8.23@
8 oz jar: $18.35@

The issue that would be of concern to me for your members would be cost
incurred by the re-shipping process to distribute the individual jars.

The decision concerning whether to use the L260Cp or the M260Cp is
determined by your requirements. Since you will be posting the information
for other members to review, I will discuss the basics for making a decision
so that everyone understands the subtle differences in the two products, and
their respective uses. The grease(s) come in the following formulas:

Lithium based - More stable at higher temperatures, and more tacky
(surface needs protection, but is stationary); and

Mineral based form - More lubricating (moving parts).

The greases may be ordered with or without particles. Particles may be
conductive or non-conductive, and may be purchased with:

Copper particles: Abrasive & conductive;
Graphite particles: Excellent lubricant with heat absorption and
conductivity;
Quartz particles: Not conductive, but abrasive;
Graphite & Quartz particles
Aluminum particles: Can be made if required, or
Aluminum/Copper particles (is the norm for increased stability).

-------
*Note Underwater Application for L260:

It is compatible with rubber molded S O neoprene underwater cable
applications.

CaiLube TYPE M260, for electrical and mechanical applications from:
-40�C to +260�C.
CaiLube TYPE L260, for electrical and mechanical applications from:
-40�C to +260�C, high dripping point.

CaiLube TYPE M260 & TYPE L260 PASTES are manufactured in a semi-solid form
for use as a combination cleaning, protecting and lubricating preparation.
Pastes have excellent lubricating ability, protect against oxidation
(galvanic corrosion) and are free of mineral acids, sulphurs, alkalis and
other noxious components that may be aggressive to metals. Improves
performance of electrical contacts, collector ring assemblies, mechanical
components that require precise lubrication and reduces sparking of
commutator brushes.

Particles available:

CaiLube pastes are available with or without particles. Below is a brief
description of the particles available and their intended use.

Copper:
Helps break up oxides and corrosion (usually galvanic) on the surfaces.
Copper is conductive. Use in areas that two contacts will not touch and
possibly short. Example, disconnect switches and large connectors and
relays. Behaves well with bare copper.

Quartz:
Same purpose as the copper particles and will not conduct electricity.
Finer particles than the copper.

Graphite:
The graphite provides excellent lubricating and heat transfer
characteristics. Use where lubrication is vital and heat absorption and
dissipation is important.

Quartz/Graphite Combo:

Recommended when you need particles to assist in oxide breakup and you
require good best lubrication and heat transfer.

We ultimately want you to choose whatever formula is most beneficial for
you. Please contact me once you have made your decision at either
ssp@... or (800) 224-4123.

With kind regards,

Susan

Susan Prenatt
Technical Support/ Sales Division
CAIG Laboratories, Inc.

-----

Don't call her, guys. Wait for me a minute and I will see if we can save a
couple of bucks.


Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18019 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: track
I believe they call it NO-LOX it is a brand name. Last time I used it it
was $20.00 for a 4oz plastic bottle. I think(IMHO) that spray contact cleaner
would work better than NO-LOX. I think the stuff Chris has found is better
for the job. That is just my opinion.I don't remember who recommended the
CAIG DEOX-IT5 about 1 1/2 years ago, but I bought it then and sprayed alot of
track & still have 1/2 a can left. I think back then it was about 15 to 16 a
can. The other CAIG products were a lot more then. They had a 2oz bottle of
something from CAIG that was $80.00. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18020 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
From: <Anormal1@...>
> OK Chris, put me down for 1 jar. How do you want to handle the
> transfer of funds? Mike S.



Send me a check for $25.
Make it out to me.

Chris Zizzo
85 Scudder Place
Northport, N.Y. 11768-3026

Include your complete address so I can mail it back.

Chris Z.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18021 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Yahoooooooooooo!
Many thanks to the yahoos at Yahoo. They just decided to turn it off for a
day or so. Then they lost all the posts. What does it mean when they say
all the mail has been queued? I always took it to mean "lined up" . . . but
where?

So, as a result, only a few of you who wrote me personally are aware of the
latest in this sparking thing. I will post all that I have that you missed.
As soon as I do, the head Yahoo will find all the mail he queued ("lost" is
easier to spell) and then you'll have duplicate copies. Maybe triplicate.
What a mess.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18022 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: 5 digit reverse units
Ray, I need a quick factoid for my next column. Can you answer this question?

Gilbert produced two different variations of the 5 digit reverse unit. One
had the coil terminals on top of the coil, and the other had the coil
terminals on the bottom of the coil.

The question is, what were the part numbers of these two units?

Any other info on this is welcome too!

Thanks.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18023 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Speaker insulation
Tom, in regards to your note on insulating speakers...would this also be
advisable for the speaker in a diesel, specifically a 361? Thanks for your
thoughts and best wishes to all!
Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 18024 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: Re: sparking(once more)
My experience is like Roger's. His write up reminds me that it's been
ages since I oiled my rails and I get NO sparking. I'm runnin a loop
around the perimeter of my 8 x 25 foot layout, plus 2 loops about 12
feet long, plus yards so that's a fair amount of track. If you rub one
of my rails with your finger it comes up dirty, showing an oil film is
present. I think at this point I leak enough smoke fluid to keep them
oily enough to prevent sparking. My experience with squeaky clean rails
is that they stay non sparking for a short time.

Roger Hinds wrote:
>
> Just how much of the oil did you use and how did you apply It?
> One drop on each rail is all I used, and I use 300 ' of track. And my trains
> climb up a long winding grades through mountains and tunnels.
> I let my loco carry the oil around.
> Let me clarify what I mean, only 2 drops of oil for the whole layout.
> If I had a small layout I would use the tip of a pin to apply the oil. Only a
> fraction of a drop on each rail will work A full drop will be to much.
> I get the feeling you rubbed a thin layer of oil on all your rails.
> That will cause big problems. WAYyyyyyy to much oil.
> Why did things gum up for you afterwards?
> Did you clean the rail before applying the oil?
> And did you clean the wheels thoroughly on all of your rolling stock?
> If the answers are NO, then what happened later?
> The Clipper oil worked on all the gummy wheels or rails, and the guck
> spread around as it came loose and made a mess of the wheels and rails again.
> Another words, the Clipper oil will only work if everything is cleaned of the
> old gunk first. I mean totally clean. I guarantee the results will be great.
> There are other factors that will cause gummy rails.
> Smoke. Engine smoke is evaporated oil. It won't do your rails any good.
> Giggaret ,cigar smoke will cause problems.
> Dust. this clings to the rails causing problems. If your layout room has a rug
> or a floor above (with no ceiling) Or a laundry room nearby. Then you will have
> lots of dust.
> Moisture. Is your layout in a cellar? Are you running a humidifier? Laundry
> Room or bath nearby? Use a dehumidifier.
>
> Everyone that bought Whal clipper oil from me got detailed instructions on how to
> achieve results with no problems.
>
> Roger Hinds
>
> "Horn, David" wrote:
>
> > I tried Wahls Clipper Oil, and was a "believer" for about a month. Then I
> > found non-pulmor engines slip too much (SHS engines included, and yes, I
> > only had a very very thin film of oil on the rails), and that it seemed I
> > was cleaning my tracks more often than ever. What I have found works best
> > is 3M green ScotchBrite pad on brass or steel pickup wheels, followed by 91%
> > pure isoproply on Q-tips. For the rails, if at first there's any built-up
> > gook, get it off with the green pad (erasers work, but it's best to vacuum
> > up the grit afterward), and then clean with 91% pure isopropyly on a cotton
> > rag. Cleaning them routinely with the alcohol helps to avoid ever needing
> > to use the pad or anything else more "severe". Run 'em if you got 'em.
> > Dave
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18025 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/5/2002
Subject: 5digit reverse units
I need a quick factoid for my next column; can anyone answer this question?

Gilbert produced two different variations of the 5 digit reverse unit. One
had the coil terminals on top of the coil, and the other had the coil
terminals on the bottom of the coil.

The question is, what were the part numbers of these two units?

Thanks.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18026 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: Cailube
At some of the places I have occasion to work, the tech maintenance
guys clean noisy patch bay contacts with a contact cleaner spray that
has Cramolin in it. Mayhaps it could also be used for cleaning and
preserving model rails. Spray it on a cloth, wipe away...

It should be available at any electronics hardware store, with the
possible exception of Radio Shack.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18027 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
Chris:
Tx for taking the initiative and finding out some info that will be of use to us all.

Rance Velapoldi (Norway)

Chris Zizzo wrote:

> Hi all:
> Many list members wrote me about the specific product from Caig that would do the
> trick.
> To be honest, I'm not certain, so I wrote this to Susan Prenatt at Caig and I will
> post her answer when it comes. My note to her should address most concerns we
> have. Read it to see if I left anything out.

etc.............
Group: S-Trains Message: 18028 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
Hi Chris:
It is interesting that they put particles in the material, especially around moving
parts, etc. Quartz and other stuff can be somewhat hard on motors, moving parts,
etc. Think sand. She also recommends Cu particles for conducting electricity and
breaking up oxides, just what occurs between the track and the wheels. Oh well, if it
works, it might be great stuff!
Rance Velapoldi

Chris Zizzo wrote:

> OK, speedy service. Caig Laboratories is on the ball.
> Susan Prenatt sent me a comprehensive answer, including more than you ever
> wanted to know about conductive paste. Nonetheless, I have posted her
> complete response below, and it is detailed.
>
> My deduction, the M260CP is the product for us. It is mineral based,
> provides lubrication, contains conductive particles and has a certain
> metallic abrasive quality that does not impede traction. This is the stuff
> I have and I love it.
>
> As to ordering in bulk, I am woring out some of those details right now and
> will have an answer momentarily.
>
> Here is Susan's reponse:
> ______________________________________________________________________
> March 4, 2002
>
> Hello Chris:
>
> Thank you so much for your recent inquiry. As far as the cost is concerned,
> the products are available in the following manner:

etc.............
Group: S-Trains Message: 18029 From: bassflyer Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: I uploaded some pics at S-Trains.....
I finally took a few decent pics of my little Fall layout. The pics
from the floppy don't look quite as nice as the prints came out.
Anyway,..if you go to the S-Trains site and click on photos, you'll
find my folder marked 'Rick Evans'.

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18030 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: Caig products
Hi David,
I have used the Deoxit-5 for about a year or so. It works. I
have used it on engines that had not run in a while & noticed a jump in rpm
after just a spray 7 let it Dry. DO NOT SPRAY WHILE ENGINE IS RUNNING "FIRE"
Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18031 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: Excessive Sparking
Many thanks to the yahoos at Yahoo. They just decided to turn it off for a
day or so. Then they lost all the posts. What does it mean when they say
all the mail has been queued? I always took it to mean "lined up" . . . but
where?

So, as a result, only a few of you who wrote me personally are aware of the
latest in this sparking thing. I will post all that I have that you missed.
As soon as I do, the head Yahoo will find all the mail he queued ("lost" is
easier to spell) and then you'll have duplicate copies.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18032 From: af21115 Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: 0-6-0T switcher on Ebay?
The tankers are handsome little locos. But they were only made 1 year
for each variation, they are fragile, and everyone wants one as they
go on the non-descript "any RR" pike well. The 21155 was only
cataloged in 1958, and its the only one with a smoker, pul-mor and
reverse unit. Therefore its the most sought after, and commands big
bucks along the lines of $450 if truly excellent condition. The 21156
is basically the same loco as the 21155 but the smoker was removed.
It was only cataloged in 1959, and because its black it too still
commands good bucks but not as much as the 21155 with smoker. Expect
to pay about $350 minimum for a truly excellent one. The third
variation was very basic. It has no reverse, and no smoker, and came
in blue. It didn't even have operating couplers, although they are
easy to swap out for working ones. Its fairly common, and was an
uncataloged item in 1960 only. They are easy to pick up for about
$150 in truly excellent condition.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18033 From: Don Thompson Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: 0-6-0T switcher on Ebay?
I remember being in a hobby shop in North Jersey somewhere on Rt 46 when I was
about 12 or 13 and seeing a bushel basket with the blue 0-6-0's that would run on my
flyer track for 5 bucks each. I begged my dad to get one for me but to no avail. I
did get one about 20 years later, added the smoke unit from an old Franklin and the
rest of the parts from Hobby Surplus Sales.
Don

af21115 wrote:

> The tankers are handsome little locos. But they were only made 1 year
> for each variation, they are fragile, and everyone wants one as they
> go on the non-descript "any RR" pike well. The 21155 was only
> cataloged in 1958, and its the only one with a smoker, pul-mor and
> reverse unit. Therefore its the most sought after, and commands big
> bucks along the lines of $450 if truly excellent condition. The 21156
> is basically the same loco as the 21155 but the smoker was removed.
> It was only cataloged in 1959, and because its black it too still
> commands good bucks but not as much as the 21155 with smoker. Expect
> to pay about $350 minimum for a truly excellent one. The third
> variation was very basic. It has no reverse, and no smoker, and came
> in blue. It didn't even have operating couplers, although they are
> easy to swap out for working ones. Its fairly common, and was an
> uncataloged item in 1960 only. They are easy to pick up for about
> $150 in truly excellent condition.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 18034 From: bassflyer Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: I uploaded some pics at S-Trains.....
I finally took a few decent pics of my little Fall layout. The pics
from the floppy don't look quite as nice as the prints came out.
Anyway,..if you go to the S-Trains site and click on photos, you'll
find my folder marked 'Rick Evans'.

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18035 From: mlmarmer Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: 0-6-0T switcher on Ebay?
Make's me happy about learning the current value of it on Ebay. I got one
in a Train Shoppe, of all places, in Baltimore for $125 in 1996, in like new
condition! Almost didn't get it!

Mike


----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Hinds" <cofa@...>
To: "Fire Wood" <fahrwud@...>
Cc: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] 0-6-0T switcher on Ebay?


> Nice to know the current value of my locos. Sheesh! If I sold all my AF
trains
> I could by an awful lot of trains in another scale and have a lot of money
left over.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18036 From: royhoffman Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: I uploaded some pics at S-Trains.....
Nice pictures!
The "Christmas 2000" is a classic!

Roy


--- In S-Trains@y..., "bassflyer" <comic@d...> wrote:
> I finally took a few decent pics of my little Fall layout. The
pics
> from the floppy don't look quite as nice as the prints came out.
> Anyway,..if you go to the S-Trains site and click on photos, you'll
> find my folder marked 'Rick Evans'.
>
> Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18037 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Caig Labs (was: Excessive Sparking)
Hopefuly this will get posted. The list has been weird of late.

For those of you who want in on this Cramolin Paste adventure,

Send me a check for $25.
Make it out to me. I don't have PayPal or any of that.

Chris Zizzo
85 Scudder Place
Northport, N.Y. 11768-3026

Include your complete address so I can mail the stuff back.

If anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about, look over the archived posts
of the last few days that have "re: Excessive Sparking" as the subject.

I'm getting only one case, (12 cans).

Chris Z.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18038 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Caig Labs
Yikes!
Eight jars spoken for already!
Maybe we'll be saving even more money by buying two cases!
I'm making a list of everybody. As soon as I have the checks, I'll order.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18039 From: Scott Brown Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: S Gauge Beanie Babies
Hey !!! I didn't know they made S Gauge Beanie Babies !! What a dummy I've been. I could have had a hedgehog or a duck or a cat or rabbit on my pike. Darn.

Scott Brown

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1709515890
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1709516728
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1709517109
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1709517570




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18040 From: Roy E. Plotnick Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Track Cleaning
I have successfully used LPS-1, a spray available at Ace Hardware stores
for many years. I spray it on a cloth and it takes the gunk right off. A
good wiping is needed to remove it, otherwise traction will be reduced.
-Roy Plotnick
Group: S-Trains Message: 18041 From: Alex Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: I uploaded some pics at S-Trains.....
Huh? I don't see this anywhere Rick! Can you provide a direct URL please?
Thank you.

== Alex in Maine .-.-.

-----Original Message-----
From: bassflyer [mailto:comic@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 5:51 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] I uploaded some pics at S-Trains.....


I finally took a few decent pics of my little Fall layout. The pics
from the floppy don't look quite as nice as the prints came out.
Anyway,..if you go to the S-Trains site and click on photos, you'll
find my folder marked 'Rick Evans'.

Rick.


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18042 From: David Dewey Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: SP 4449, the Daylight to be in American Freedom Train Colors again.
Just announced, the 4449 is currently being painted in AFT red white blue &
black. She is scheduled for a trip from Portland to Bend the end of this
month. It might be her last outing for a while!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18043 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Real or Repro?
Hey Folks, how can you tell if the cannon on the 24565 cannon-car is
an original or repro? I was told the original says " made in taiwan"
or something. True? Thanks,John.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18044 From: Don Thompson Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: Bachman On30
Dear Bob,
I did one of the flat cars. I bought it in an A&P (now that is market
saturation). I had to mill the frame with a dremel tool for the KD-802 couplers and
added out #00047 Andrews trucks with the black spacer It is wider than our other S
scale cars and I think the ribs on the side boards seem a little to far apart.
Don

ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT wrote:

> I see where they are going to do a neat 2 truck shay this fall in on30...we
> have got to find a way to convert...I think I will try to redo a flat
> car...wonder if you could cut the axels in two...add a spacer to re
> guage...similar work on the truck frame..."s" flat...If this works could we
> then do similar things to the existing steamer???? Anybody done this? Bob
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 18045 From: Roger Delthony Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Track Cleaning
Roger Hinds asked for comments from his customers, and as I am one of
his customers, I'm responding to his request.

Several years ago there was a similar thread on S-Trains about track
cleaning, and Roger offered his products, 'Colonel Brassy Metal Cleaner'
and 'Wahl Clipper Oil'. Since Roger spoke so highly of these, I bought a
bottle of each.

I found that the Colonel Brassy would remove light red surface rust
reasonably well. However, even with hard rubbing with a variety of
abrasive pads I could not remove heavy rust using Colonel Brassy,
especially black rust.

I e-mailed Roger (Roger has received at least one negative comment) and
told him of my experience with the Colonel Brassy and black rust. His
reply was that there is no such thing as black rust. My Handbook of
Chemistry and Physics lists five forms of iron oxide (commonly known as
rust), of which three are red and two are black. Never-the-less, Colonel
Brassey would not remove heavy black rust even with hard rubbing with
things like Scotch-brite and similar abrasive pads.

After my experience with the Colonel Brassy, I went to the supermarket
and picked up a bottle of 'Mr. Metal' metal cleaner and tried that. It
worked at least as well as and probably better than Colonel Brassy, and
only cost about $5 per bottle vs. $27 for Colonel Brassy. Now when
something needs rust removal, I tend to pick up the Mr. Metal. There are
a number of metal cleaners out there. I would suggest that you try some
and see what you think works best for you.

An item related to rust removal is reblueing 'black' Flyer parts.
Although this has been mentioned before, it's been a while and is
probably worth revisiting now. A number of steel parts of Flyer
equipment that look like they have been plated black rather than painted
have been 'blued'. Blueing is the black finish that is applied to guns.
Flyer sheet metal parts such as trucks, car chassis', track ties, and
others were blued. Bluing is readily available in small bottles for $3-4
at gun shops, Wal-Mart, K-Mart, and others. After you have the rust
removed from a part, following a few simple steps on the bottle will
give you a finished 'reblued' part in about 15 minutes. Be sure and
follow the safety precautions. Spot reblueing to try and match original
blueing may be a little hard, although repeated applications of the
blueing solution will darken the spot. Reblueing the whole part will
probably give a more uniform result. At least one of the metal cleaners
will remove blueing from steel if you want to start from scratch.

Regards,

Roger Delthony
Group: S-Trains Message: 18046 From: Clay Buckage Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: York Primer
Dear Uncle Clem.....

If it's not too much trouble could you please
make mention of the Gilbert Get-Together at the
Four Points Sheraton off Arsenal Road, behind the
'Round the Clock Diner in the "New York Primer".
Our meeting is held every Thursday of York Week
at 9:00pm. Check page 7 of the York meet notice.
We have been doing this for a few years now, We
pay for the room, but don't advertise our sponsorship
Noted Gilbert maven Bob Tufts attends and helps
chair the meeting. No buying, selling or trading of
any kind. We talk about Gilbert history, discuss
variations, display special items, etc.
Anyone is welcome. Thanks!!!!

Clay



"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?"
"The Shadow knows"

Clay Buckage
Dave's Twacks & Twains
Box 388
Tatamy, Pa. 18085
cbuckage@...
clay@...
www.davestnt.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18047 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: The Caig List
These are the names I have for the Caig lubricant/contact enhancer.
12 cans / 12 names. I'm the thirteenth, but I already own some.
This can either end it, or, if another 10 or 11 guys want in, we can get two
cases.

Steve Blackburn
Tim Brown
David Dewey
Art Goodell
Bob Guckian
Bob Kimball
James C. Knight
Paul Policarpo
Dick Purnell
Mike S.
Alex Sibbald
Rance Velapoldi
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18048 From: crustyfour Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: Track Cleaning
I have had excellent results glass beading old rusty Flyer track as
mentioned in the S-trains FAQ. I set the air pressure at about 55 psi
and carefully blast the tops and sides of the rails. If rusty I also
blast the ties being careful not to linger on the paper insulators.
This quickly removes all rust (takes about 45 seconds per piece of
track)and usually leaves the blued aooearance on the ties. I then
blow off all residue. The track looks almost as good as new, even
very rusty pieces. I realize not everyone has a glass bead cabinet,
but if you do it is a great way to make crusty old track look like
new.

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 18049 From: roy inman Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: S Fest car
Would the kind person who sent me the web site for the State Line S Gaugers
please resend the contact name and phone #? I can't get the S-Fest car
order form to open on my computer.
Thanks,
Roy Inman
Group: S-Trains Message: 18050 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: Caig List
We are now at 18 and climbing. It looks like a go for case # 2.
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18051 From: Scott Brown Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: track
Ummm, just in case any of you are rushing out to the hardware store to buy NOLOX or any other product like it, DONT !! Bob Conner had asked:

"What about the substance that they use where aluminium wire and copper wire
join....you put the coating on to provide better contact...its in the
electrical dept. at stores..."

These products are thick, sticky products that I used for decades as an electrician and they are not really intended to improve conductivity. They are used to seal out air from the connection of aluminum wires as well as aluminum and copper wires. AL/CU connections will dissolve each other as the 2 metals are dissimilar and the anti-oxidant (hence the name NOLOX) helps keep air (which fuels oxidation) out of the connection. AL/CU connections using a wire nut and NOLOX are not allowed in residential work any longer because the wires eventually dissolved each other and then had the potential to spark and cause fires. Anyway, it won't help with toy trains and will be a devil of a clean up job if you get it on your tracks, engines, hands, clothes, etc. I always wore gloves when I used it as an electrician cause it just doesn't wash out with soap and water.
Hope this helps

Scott Brown


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18052 From: The Reis's Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Blatant sale of cheap SHS stuff
I still have a few of the SHS hoppers left. I am selling these for a friend
and this are all of them.

1. Soo line #6877 rust colored
2. Milwaukee #99631 off white
3. Nickel Plate #91508 Blue, (8 is a overlayed decal)
4. Rock #507802 light blue (8 is an overlayed decal)
5. Maine central #2492 off white
6. Maine central #2492 off white (yes there are 2)

All have the original boxes with foam insert.

I would like to get $22 for them with both sets wheels and knuckles.
I will take $20 if I can keep the knuckle couplers.


I have a Muncie and western SHS box car (rebuilt type) Yellow sides with
black top and “the Ball Line” on the sides.

$30 with both wheels and knuckle, $28 without knuckles.

Shipping $3 for first one and add $1 each for any more in the USA.

Make an offer!

Thanks

Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa.
Greater Seattle S Gaugers


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18053 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: 0-6-0T switcher on Ebay?
Don T. wrote:

>I begged my dad to get one for me but to no avail. I did get one
>about 20 years later, added the smoke unit from an old Franklin and
>the rest of the parts from Hobby Surplus Sales.


There! See? He practically built the thing himself. And some people
think hi-railers are just dumb "ready-to-run" ijitts! (Oh, wait...
that's on the other S list..)


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18054 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Re: I uploaded some pics at S-Trains.....
many thanx for the pix, Rick!

That reminds me, gotta work on some Christmas layout pics to get in
the mood. Less than 10 months to go!

Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18055 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: New pics
Hi all,
I finally was able to figure out how to get photo's from CD rom to the photo
section of s-trains. The new pics are under Louisville and Indy GATS. I hope
you enjoy them. Paul, just delete the e-mail I sent you. Thanks.

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18056 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/6/2002
Subject: Video questions
Hi everybody,

I have had several requests via email and snail mail to produce a "How To"
video for repairing American Flyer Locos. I need input from all of you as to
the feasibility of doing so. Also if you do show a positive bent please tell
me what you would like to see most. If I can get 50 people to say they would
like such a video I will most probably do it. I'm not sending this to the
Scale side of S-Trains because why would they be interested? There are no
taboo subjects, so let's hear from you as to what you would like to see if
anything.

While were on the subject, a reminder:

Volume IV of "S-Gauge Model Railroading" titled "Hershey Bars to Baked
Potatoes" will begin shipping on Friday the 8th. I watched an approval copy
today and it looks good to me. I told them to "print em" so I pick up the
first 40 Friday. In addition I pick up 10 more copies each of Vol's. I - II &
III which have all been sold out for some time. They are now available in
limited numbers too.
THANKS...

Steve & Sam


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18057 From: royhoffman Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: TCA Website
This post was on the LDSIG yahoo group. I thought I would pass it on
because it's a great opportunity for S. I already offered some stuff
for them. The website is in beta testing and you can see it at
http://www.tcamembers.org
Here's the post:

Subject: Any writers or photo bugs out there?
Train Collectors Assoc. (TCA), is working on putting an online
magazine together, for display on their National Website
(www.traincollectors.org).
If anyone is interested in contributing to this forum, whether it be
toy train modeling, operating tips or layouts,Toy train collectibles
information, photos of railfanning trips or sites, accessories
reviews ,etc,etc. Please contact Robert Mintz (Editor)E-Train
Magazine at Rimbob@...

It is very rewarding to see your work in print!
Thanks,

Frank Samaritano
TCA Internet Committee
Group: S-Trains Message: 18058 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Calendar
Folks,
Both my NHRS chapter(Pottstown/Reading, PA) and my Model traction club (East
Penn Model Traction) put out smaller calenders approximately 8"x 11" each
year. They sell these at the meetings and also at public shows through
dealers. Cost about $10. retail. Wholsale appears to be about $7. These are
black and white and are grabbed up very quickly by everyone just for the
photos. Price does not seem to bother the "bargain hunter" mentallity of our
local. Good news is, after all is said and done, the project makes a small
amount of $ and the public is reminded of the existance of the organization.
Tom D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18059 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Caig List
Well, you guys are amazing. I'm sorry I'm not making a profit on this
stuff!

We've got 23 names on the list now. At this rate, we'll be into the third
case by this weekend.

Everybody who wrote me should send the checks now. Make them out to me.
I'll order on-line from Caig using my credit card.

Send $25 per can to:

Chris Zizzo
85 Scudder Place
Northport, NY 11768-3026

Amazing.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18060 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge Beanie Babies
Scott found Beanie Babies under "American Flyer" on eBay and said:
> I didn't know they made S Gauge Beanie Babies !!

Whatever the reason they were listed that way, the plan worked!
Three out of four were won by "Flyerboy"!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18061 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: 4449 AFT
>Just announced, the 4449 is currently being painted in AFT red white blue &
>black. She is scheduled for a trip from Portland to Bend the end of this
>month. It might be her last outing for a while!

I suppose this is a post 9/11 reaction?
Is she due for a 5 year?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18062 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: 0-6-0T switcher on Ebay?
Don said:
>I remember being in a hobby shop in North Jersey somewhere on Rt 46 when I
was
>about 12 or 13 and seeing a bushel basket with the blue 0-6-0's that would
run on my
>flyer track for 5 bucks each. I begged my dad to get one for me but to no
avail.

Don:
One winter, well after Christmas, my father took me with him to Lafayette
Electronics in Syosset, ostensibly to get a tube for his Hi-Fi. There, in
the vestibule, were sealed cases stacked up containing Lionel trains that
were being clearanced. $25 a set. You see, they hadn't moved very well
because nobody seemed to like a pink steam engine. My father said:
"What are you looking at them for? They don't work with your trains. And
they're PINK!" I said, "Yeah, I know," and we left.

50 MIB Girl's sets, $25 apiece. $1250 total, or approximately what you
would pay for just one now. I'll bet they woulda made us a deal for the
lot, too.

Oh well, I'm rich. Who needs it?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18063 From: David Dewey Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: 0-6-0T switcher on Ebay?
OK, I've got an AF version of this--didn't happen to me, but to my friend
Mike Wright (You've seen his layouts in my Christmas Dispatch article a year
back).
Back in '65 or so, a few months after Christmas, he went into a Bay Area
(for you non-Californians, that's the San Francisco area) store and there
was a stack of AF train sets, all alike; a blow out at about $35. He bought
ONE, it is his MP single PA set. He could have purchased more, but didn't
bother!
Gads a Stack of MP sets!!! AAAAUGH!!!
Wonder what's in the attic of that store now??????
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18064 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Lost messages???
Has anyone else experienced any problems with this? It's a hit and
miss thing for me. Sometime it work but most of the time it
doesn't. I'm having about a 1 out of 3 success rate at posting new
messages and a can't reply to any messages at all.

Fred
Group: S-Trains Message: 18065 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Repost: 6 wheel tender question
I'll try this again since who knows where my first post went? Are
the tender bases for Hudsons interchangable with Northern tender
shells?
If they aren't, would anyone in the group have a Northen tender base
for sale?
Thanks,
Fred Rawling
Group: S-Trains Message: 18066 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: 6 axle tender question
Hi all, Are the tender bases for Hudsons and Northerns the same? I
found a Northern tender shell and have a base for a Hudson tender and
was hoping they could be married up? The Northern tender shell is a
deal in the works and I don't have it yet.
If they aren't does anyone here have a tender base for a Northen they
would like to get rid of ;-)
Thanks,
Fred Rawling
Group: S-Trains Message: 18067 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Repost: 6 wheel tender question
I'll try this again since who knows where my first post went? Are
the tender bases for Hudsons interchangable with Northern tender
shells?
If they aren't, would anyone in the group have a Northen tender base
for sale?
Thanks,
Fred Rawling
Group: S-Trains Message: 18068 From: pieter_roos Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: Bachman On30
It has been done, Bill Wade wrote up one conversion of the 2-6-0 in
his magazine when they first came out and I know of one other article
on convering the 2-6-0 and passenger cars in preparation. The shay may
be a bit of a challenge.

Pieter

--- In S-Trains@y..., "ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT"
<rcon7@b...> wrote:
> I see where they are going to do a neat 2 truck shay this fall in
on30...we
> have got to find a way to convert...I think I will try to redo a
flat
> car...wonder if you could cut the axels in two...add a spacer to re
> guage...similar work on the truck frame..."s" flat...If this works
could we
> then do similar things to the existing steamer???? Anybody done
this? Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 18069 From: yazfacts Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: 302-New Pulmor Tires......
Dear Group,
I have a A.F.#302 Atlantic that I wanted to put a pair of
repro tires on.I put them on without any trouble,but when I put the
engine on the track the engine fell off the rails.Did Gilbert make
certain style of wheels to except the Pulmor tires or do I just have
the wrong type of tire ?? It seems that the wheel flange is not wide
enough to except the tires.Please post any and all answers.Thank you
as always.
Bob S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18070 From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: Bachman On30
Not quite, Pieter. We did an analysis of the beast with suggestions on
what would need to be done to convert it to S scale.

Take care,
Bill


pieter_roos wrote:
>
> It has been done, Bill Wade wrote up one conversion of the 2-6-0 in
> his magazine when they first came out and I know of one other article
> on convering the 2-6-0 and passenger cars in preparation. The shay may
> be a bit of a challenge.
>
> Pieter
>
> --- In S-Trains@y..., "ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT"
> <rcon7@b...> wrote:
> > I see where they are going to do a neat 2 truck shay this fall in
> on30...we
> > have got to find a way to convert...I think I will try to redo a
> flat
> > car...wonder if you could cut the axels in two...add a spacer to re
> > guage...similar work on the truck frame..."s" flat...If this works
> could we
> > then do similar things to the existing steamer???? Anybody done
> this? Bob


--
============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================
Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer
Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-643-1105 FAX: 813-681-7326
B.T.S. http://www.btsrr.com
S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com
Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 18071 From: royhoffman Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: Lost messages???
It looks like replies are being serviced quickly, while brand new
posts are getting either lost or seriously delayed.

Roy

--- In S-Trains@y..., "lbdrummer3" <lbdrummer3@y...> wrote:
> Has anyone else experienced any problems with this? It's a hit and
> miss thing for me. Sometime it work but most of the time it
> doesn't. I'm having about a 1 out of 3 success rate at posting new
> messages and a can't reply to any messages at all.
>
> Fred
Group: S-Trains Message: 18072 From: crustyfour Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: Bachman On30
--- In S-Trains@y..., "pieter_roos" <pieter_roos@y...> wrote:
> It has been done, Bill Wade wrote up one conversion of the 2-6-0 in
> his magazine ....
snip

Is this article online anywhere? Or can someone scan and e-mail it
to me? I've been looking for this kind of info for a while with no
luck.

Thanks,
Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 18073 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Reply- Track Cleaning
Mr. Delthony is correct. Colonel brassy will not remove heavy rust. I never claimed
it
would. Most rust on Model RR rails is surface rust and will come off with Colonel
Brassy.
Rails with heavy rust cannot be removed with any chemical. I am wondering how many
ounces are in the Mr. Metal Bottle. (Colonel Brassy is 16 oz. Also How much is
needed
to clean a given area, say, Per sq. foot. Is Mr. Metal a liquid or paste? Colonel
Brassy is
a paste so you can put it on an irregular surface and it won't run off before you use
it. One drop (Colonel Brassy) will do the surface of a length of Flyer track. I use
it on all metals.
I use Colonel Brassy for cleaning silverware. Wipe it on wipe it off. The
disadvantage of
Liquid tarnish removers is, It removes the darkened area inside the etching. Which is
a No
No with silverware. On silverware the etching is supposed do be dark inside the
groves. It highlights
the engraving.
Black Rust ? On what kind of metal ? Is it caused by water or something else?
I wouldn't call all oxidation as rust. Aluminum Oxidizes. A white powder on its
surface.
It sure as heck isn't rust. When people refer to rust they are referring to the
general publics
conception as what rust is. That dirty red/brown stuff on steel.
Most people know chemicals won't remove thick rust. As I recall I mentioned a
number
of times it wouldn't.

I am interested on how the Wahl clipper oil worked out with Mr. Delthony's rails.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18074 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: 6 axle tender question
Hi all, Are the tender bases for Hudsons and Northerns the same? I
found a Northern tender shell and have a base for a Hudson tender and
was hoping they could be married up? The Northern tender shell is a
deal in the works and I don't have it yet.
If they aren't does anyone here have a tender base for a Northen they
would like to get rid of ;-)
Thanks,
Fred Rawling
Group: S-Trains Message: 18075 From: David Dewey Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: 302-New Pulmor Tires......
Bob,
Yes, their are different sizes of steam loco tires, pre-pull mor have
narrower flanges even. Pull-mor wheels are not regular wheels with tires
added, so putting repro tires on your wheels won't work, the are designed to
go on stripped old pull mor wheels.
S'
DAvid D
Group: S-Trains Message: 18076 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: 6 wheel tender question
The Hudson and Northern tender floors are not interchangeable. The
Northern floor is cast, and the Hudson floor is stamped.

The Northern tender floor has been reproduced several times and should be
available from Flyer parts dealers. Most 334DC locos have had their tender
floors disintegrate from white metal disease and stress, so there has been
quite a need for this part.

And while we're on the subject, the 944 crane does not have the same trucks
as the large tenders, as was suggested earlier. The sideframes are
similar, but the coupler shank is longer on the crane truck, and there are
no provisions for mounting pickup shoes.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18077 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: Caig List
Good suggestion, but how much money does everybody want to throw in?
Deoxit D5 can be bought in good electronics stores. I think we're gonna
have to leave it there for now.

Chris Zizzo


----- Original Message -----
From: "imsscott" <imsscott@...>
To: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: Caig List


> You guys should seriously consider getting Caig's R5 power Booster
> too. It's like their Deoxit D5 (A contact cleaner) but is non-
> flammable and can actually be sprayed on a running engine. When you
> spray it on a running engine the engine will immediately start
> running faster. Cool!
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18078 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: AF Track Cleaning
Hello,

Some time ago (more than a year ago) I reported here that I used black oxide
to blast lightly rusted AF track. I am very pleased with the result. The
track rail head can be repolished after "blasting" using a fine Scotch brand
sponge (very little effort). The rest of the rail has a gray appearance and
yes, the ties lose their "blueing," but the insulators and the rail perform
as they always have. The trains "see" no difference running on that track.
The trick is to use a light touch--I have a low output old air compressor;
certainly not pro type equipment which barely keeps the minimal pressure
required going to the gun. I used a large plastic bucket (those paint ones)
with a notch in the top to allow my spraying the gun into the bucket catching
some of the oxide for reuse in the gun. The gun was a $30 job from Northern
Tool. I placed a piece of plexiglass over the bucket top as I observed my
work on a section of track. As I said then : send me any rusty AF track you
don't want! And thanks to the member for that blueing memo---that really
helps here.

John R
Group: S-Trains Message: 18079 From: gino restivo Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: re ; spaarking , oiling track
hi all , anyone remember " Rail Zip " it looked like
trans fluid , you had to have clean track and all
wheels clean for it to work , got it aprox ' 77' and
the track i put it on has been fine ever since ......

before that i used hair clipper oil and you needed
clean track and wheels also
a very small amout was wiped on the track and
run / spread around by the trains wheels , if
traction was lost just wipe the rails again with
another cloth and things were great again

always thought i put on to much ...

have fun, gino



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18080 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Small spaces
Hi all:
The thread of small spaces (which probably would fit inside a 10x10 or
so area) has come up. Does anyone have some layouts that they have put
into small spaces so that we can get some ideas on what to cram in or
what not to? Drawings, schematics, pictures, etc.? Of course, some of
this is dependent on the type of terrain, industry, urban, rural, etc.
that one wants to model. But I think it would be interesting to see
what some of you have done in scale and hi-rail in small spaces in S.
Tx
Rance Velapoldi
Group: S-Trains Message: 18081 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Oddball GG-1
You guys should look at this. It's an S-Gauge, Flyer compatible GG-1, and
it is not an AM product. The seller was told it's an Imfield???

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1711511485

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18082 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Whitewall repairs
Hi Guys,

Does anyone know of a good way to repair the whitewall sections of loco wheels without pulling the wheels off and replacing them? I have a loco hulk for rehab and the whitewall section of one wheel has some pieces missing. I was thinking of mixing epoxy with porcelain touch-up, masking off the wheel to make a form, pouring in my mix, then letting it cure and filing down the rough edges. Not a perfect match maybe, but a patch is okay for me.

Any other thoughts?

Thanks,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18083 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Boring American Flyer layouts
I just want to respond to recent remarks that American Flyer Layouts are
boring when compared to S-Scale layouts. As a hi-railer with a nice American
Flyer collection I defy each and any one of you to watch the "Rocky Mountain
Hi-Railer's" predominantly Flyer layout and call it boring.
With all kinds of accessories clanging and banging all the time, three
complete loops on two levels with connections from loop to loop and the
double # crossing causing the name "Look out Junction" You couldn't possibly
find the time to be bored. Kids of all ages swarm to it at train shows, and
it is the envy (for spectator participation) of all the other layouts of any
scale. We hand out many, many "S" gauge flyers and brochures at each function
we attend. The club has a very small geographic population compared to other
clubs in the country, yet it's membership has grown to over 20 active members
in only 5 yrs. of existence. Hinkey looking couplers? Yes, Ugly track with
wide spaced ties? Yes, Gotta run em fast to keep the reverse unit coil
engaged? Yes, Does the public love it and know it is "S" scale? You bet they
do by the time this club is through with them.
I admire the Jess Bennett's and Bill Fraley's and Frank Titman's to no end,
but for having FUN, Gimme the Flyer stuff to watch. It is anything but
boring. Just MHO.

Steve Blackburn
Boise, Idaho


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18084 From: ron inscho Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: Oddball GG-1
I think you have the Mfrs. name right He was in Pikerington Oh. & made these
in the early to mid 80's .I had 4 of them & all turned junk after about 6
to 8 hours running. Construction & components were not much beyond the
prototype stage & poor runners at best. They sold new for around $225.00.
When I tried to get replacement parts or service I was told they had gone
out of buissness ,small wonder why?
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18085 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: Boring American Flyer layouts
HI Steve,
There is nothing boring when you combine Gilbert stuff. I (as a
child) loved to spend hrs putting bridges together & running the treains over
them. now that I have more trains & more Erector sets I can't wait for more
space to put them to use. Mike S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18086 From: aag_rlg Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Loading Platform
Hi:

I have a 734 operating boxcar and I am thinking about getting a
loading platform to go with it. However, I have never seen an
operating 770 or 775 loading platform and wondered how well they
work. Do they work reliably or do they need assistance, like the
stockyard sometimes does?

Thanks,
Art
Group: S-Trains Message: 18087 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: Reply- Track Cleaning
Roger wrote:

>Rails with heavy rust cannot be removed with any chemical.


Actually, there is a chemical for removing heavy rust. It's a thick,
pink, gooey liquid called "Naval Jelly." It's available at most
hardware stores in the paint section. Comes in a plastic bottle. I
have used it to remove heavy rust from rails and sheet metal
carbodies. "How heavy WAS the rust?" you ask.
Very heavy. On one AF 497 carbody, the rust was so heavy that by the
time it had all been removed, there were a few holes up to 1/8" dia.
completely through the steel. (That's heavy rust.)

It may take more than one treatment, but eventually all the rust will
be dissolved. One drawback is that if the rust on rail heads is very
thick, the good metal remaining has already been pitted considerably.
Pitted spots on steel rail are more difficult to keep clean, and will
resume corroding more quickly. It's a trade-off.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18088 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: Boring American Flyer layouts
I guess it depends what one considers "boring." I suppose those of us
with a bent more to scale are more excited by good weathering jobs,
hyper-accurate scale modelling, realistic switching operations, etc.
Others among us like to see working accessories, artfully contrived
scenes, and varied consists whizzing by at 0.7 on the scale mach
meter. Or any combination of things.

Personally, I have trouble getting bored looking at ANY working
layout. It can happen, but it takes time, usually more than I can
allot. There's always something interesting, if I get out of my own
modelling "groove" long enough to notice.

I did get bored once while looking at an N scale modular layout. It
wasn't so much because the system was N scale, but more the way it
was being run. The operators were in their own little world, wearing
headsets, oblivious to visitors. There was no switching going on,
trains were just going round and round (I can do that without the
headsets, and talk with visitors at the same time), so I don't know
the reason for their intense concentration. Since they didn't seem to
know I was there, I garnered amusement by looking over the scenery,
which consisted mostly of ballasted track. I retain the memory as an
example of how NOT to operate The C+D "S"ystem at shows.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18089 From: David Dewey Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: Whitewall repairs
Tim,
Sounds interesting. Why don't you try it and tell us how it works or
doesn't?
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18090 From: Euell Johnson Date: 3/7/2002
Subject: Re: Boring American Flyer layouts
The more we see the better it is for all of us. When developing a layout
most of us have an issue with ROOM. How do you have a 16' main line when you
have to contend with a 12X14 bedroom and doors into the hall and closet? If
anything, the layout can be too "trainy". By that I mean too much track can
be laid such that there are no revenue sources. We see that a lot for HO
pikes. This is all about having fun and sharing ideas. The more layouts I
see, the better. Maybe there is an idea out there where I can have a 16'
main across a prairie or the Mississippi Delta.

EJ



----- Original Message -----
From: "jahoozdumm" <eighthmile@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 12:28 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Boring American Flyer layouts


> I guess it depends what one considers "boring." I suppose those of us
> with a bent more to scale are more excited by good weathering jobs,
> hyper-accurate scale modelling, realistic switching operations, etc.
> Others among us like to see working accessories, artfully contrived
> scenes, and varied consists whizzing by at 0.7 on the scale mach
> meter. Or any combination of things.
>
> Personally, I have trouble getting bored looking at ANY working
> layout. It can happen, but it takes time, usually more than I can
> allot. There's always something interesting, if I get out of my own
> modelling "groove" long enough to notice.
>
> I did get bored once while looking at an N scale modular layout. It
> wasn't so much because the system was N scale, but more the way it
> was being run. The operators were in their own little world, wearing
> headsets, oblivious to visitors. There was no switching going on,
> trains were just going round and round (I can do that without the
> headsets, and talk with visitors at the same time), so I don't know
> the reason for their intense concentration. Since they didn't seem to
> know I was there, I garnered amusement by looking over the scenery,
> which consisted mostly of ballasted track. I retain the memory as an
> example of how NOT to operate The C+D "S"ystem at shows.
>
>
> Chuck F.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18091 From: af21115 Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Boring American Flyer layouts
Steve, pay no attention to the whiners, they know nothing about fun
vs boredom, obviously. You cannot get MORE boreing than sitting there
watching a train slowly crawling thru some scenery... WHOOPIE. Thats
one of the two reasons I got out of HO. I could not see paying $100
for a cheap plastic loco just because it was "scale" then if I
changed my mind only being able to get $5 for it. Second was it was
boreing. No action = boredom, period. None of that scale crap has any
action at all. Original Gilbert S is the way to go for thrills and
fun, thats how and why they were made. Even the maintainence of
accessories, locos and cars is all part of the fun.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18092 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Loading Platform
Hi Art,

I can't make a generalized statement concerning the loading platforms. I all depends. Any given item can run well, or need endless hours of tinkering. All the Flyer accessories are 50-60 years old, and some of them really show it. They generally worked very well when new. My best advice would be to find one somewhere that you have a chance to see in operation or at least know that the seller is reputable before buying unless you love to tinker. Many of us do love to tinker and find that to be as much fun as actually running the trains.

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: aag_rlg
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 11:45 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Loading Platform


Hi:

I have a 734 operating boxcar and I am thinking about getting a
loading platform to go with it. However, I have never seen an
operating 770 or 775 loading platform and wondered how well they
work. Do they work reliably or do they need assistance, like the
stockyard sometimes does?

Thanks,
Art




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18093 From: royhoffman Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Boring American Flyer layouts
Steve,

I'm on both lists and remarks like "AF is boring" and "scale crap"
are not helping our cause. I guess there are people who will buy your
tapes and fast-forward past the "boring" stuff. I sure don't because
there is absolutely NOTHING that is 1:64 that is boring. Incidentely,
my wife and I enjoyed seeing how fast Gabe got down after he lit the
lamps. Has anyone timed him on the ACG, Lionel or MTH versions.
I'm glad that almost all of us are just trying to have fun.

Roy
Group: S-Trains Message: 18094 From: rodgers_carl Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Whitewall repairs
Seems like everyone on this board has a lot of time, and money, on
their hands, and use it up by reinventing the "wheel". It must do
parts dealers hearts good to see how much their time and efforts to
make parts are appreciated by everyone trying to save a dime.

The epoxy and porcelain touch-up has got to cost more than the buck
for a new whitewall insulator!!!!


--- In S-Trains@y..., "Tim Brown" <Timboy@a...> wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> Does anyone know of a good way to repair the whitewall sections of
loco wheels without pulling the wheels off and replacing them? I
have a loco hulk for rehab and the whitewall section of one wheel has
some pieces missing. I was thinking of mixing epoxy with porcelain
touch-up, masking off the wheel to make a form, pouring in my mix,
then letting it cure and filing down the rough edges. Not a perfect
match maybe, but a patch is okay for me.
>
> Any other thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
> Tim
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18095 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Loading Platform
I have a loading platform and I find mine needs adequate current and
sound connections to propel the cube all the way to the into the car.
Given that, it works well. I have a friend who has one and his doesn't
seem as critically dependent on connections.

aag_rlg wrote:
>
> Hi:
>
> I have a 734 operating boxcar and I am thinking about getting a
> loading platform to go with it. However, I have never seen an
> operating 770 or 775 loading platform and wondered how well they
> work. Do they work reliably or do they need assistance, like the
> stockyard sometimes does?
>
> Thanks,
> Art
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18096 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Calendar
Hi all:
Hey Bob, that is a great idea. It also answers/addresses an earlier request to
some of the s-scalers (and or s-hi railers) to have some pictures, schematics,
etc. of smaller s-gauge layouts. This could have some small, medium, and large
type examples, possibly even Sn3, sort of taking a similar vein as MR's yearly
Model Railroad Planning but focusing on S only. That would be great (and it
would be super for the people on this (these) lists.
Rance Velapoldi

Bob Werre wrote:

> Roy and All, I would suggest rather than a calendar that a very good promo
> printed piece would be a 'deluxe' edition of the Dispatch that would feature
> several nice layouts some nice introduction type propaganda articles with
> lots of color ads for products. etc..............
Group: S-Trains Message: 18097 From: royhoffman Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Calendar
FYI, in case you're wondering what this post is about.
The S-scale list has been discussing a yearly calendar put out by the
NASG for the membership. It would contain a sample of every part of S
and definitely have an AF layout for December. Someone already
suggested the Famous Barr layout in St.Louis.

Roy

--- In S-Trains@y..., Rance and Bente Velapoldi <velapoldi@n...>
wrote:
> Hi all:
> Hey Bob, that is a great idea. It also answers/addresses an
earlier request to
> some of the s-scalers (and or s-hi railers) to have some pictures,
schematics,
> etc. of smaller s-gauge layouts. This could have some small,
medium, and large
> type examples, possibly even Sn3, sort of taking a similar vein as
MR's yearly
> Model Railroad Planning but focusing on S only. That would be
great (and it
> would be super for the people on this (these) lists.
> Rance Velapoldi
>
> Bob Werre wrote:
>
> > Roy and All, I would suggest rather than a calendar that a very
good promo
> > printed piece would be a 'deluxe' edition of the Dispatch that
would feature
> > several nice layouts some nice introduction type propaganda
articles with
> > lots of color ads for products. etc..............
Group: S-Trains Message: 18098 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Whitewall repairs
Hi,

Maybe it does cost more. Some of the fun is in the tinkering. What's wrong with that?

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: rodgers_carl
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 9:09 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Whitewall repairs


Seems like everyone on this board has a lot of time, and money, on
their hands, and use it up by reinventing the "wheel". It must do
parts dealers hearts good to see how much their time and efforts to
make parts are appreciated by everyone trying to save a dime.

The epoxy and porcelain touch-up has got to cost more than the buck
for a new whitewall insulator!!!!


--- In S-Trains@y..., "Tim Brown" <Timboy@a...> wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> Does anyone know of a good way to repair the whitewall sections of
loco wheels without pulling the wheels off and replacing them? I
have a loco hulk for rehab and the whitewall section of one wheel has
some pieces missing. I was thinking of mixing epoxy with porcelain
touch-up, masking off the wheel to make a form, pouring in my mix,
then letting it cure and filing down the rough edges. Not a perfect
match maybe, but a patch is okay for me.
>
> Any other thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
> Tim
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18099 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Boring American Flyer layouts
Steve Blackburn wrote:
With all kinds of accessories clanging and banging all the time, three complete loops on two levels with connections from loop to loop and the double # crossing causing the name "Look out Junction" You couldn't possibly find the time to be bored.
>>>

You tell 'em, Steve! And, now, there's more! Those who attend our next show at the Boise Depot, April 20-21, will be entertained by a FOURTH independent (but connected) loop and the addition of a turntable and 8-stall roundhouse on Lookout Junction. With all the trains running every which way and all the accessories to run, we may need some of you to come help operate. Join us if you can.

We've also been invited to display at the 2004 National Train Show in Seattle, along with Oregon's Northwest S Scalers, so both S hi-rail and S scale will be represented to the NMRA.

Joe Haenn wrote of the recent success that the Carolinas Division of the ACSG had at a GATS, with their 41 accessory buttons for the audience to push. Audiences crowded around the layout both days. Boring? I think that's rather impossible.

YourS,
John Eichmann, Coordinator
Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers
Boise, Idaho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18100 From: jfrr54 Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Boring American Flyer layouts
-

Our modular layout with interactive buttons for kids to push to make
our accessories and action cars run, always gets kids coming back
again and again at train shows. Then if they even think of getting
bored, we stick a hand car on the track in front of a steam engine.
There is nothing that gets attention quicker than a handcar being
chased by a Hudson. We've even had a train wreck that took out part
of a plasticville town. Now that's realism. We almost would like to
duplicate that at every show. We run trains fast, not a scale speeds.
Have train races. We try to see how many cars we can load on a set of
S-Helper engines. These are toy trains. They are there for fun.
Other layouts while visually attractive are like looking at art. Many
of those layouts belong in a museum. We're content to just have fun,
interact and talk with folks at train shows.
John Rodgers, ACSG - W&OD Division.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18101 From: David Dewey Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: 302-New Pulmor Tires.--A clarification
HI All,
Methinks I was misunderstood. There are multiple options out there for
pulmor tire replacement or conversion. Also, AF steamer wheels have three
parts to them, the center (or wheel) the insulator (that white thingy) and
the rim (sometimes called 'tire' --and that's wherein the confusion starts).
As Neil pointed out, there are three versions of the center (ignoring the
plastic version and the two sizes, regular and switcher, and the Northern
variation) as ACG continued to modify things to improve their product. The
insulators may have some slight variations, but seem to be pretty
standard-the repro ones I have seen lack the rim locking ridge, but I've not
heard of that being a problem, as the ridge is usually broken when the
centers loosen, or we disassemble the wheel!).
Onto the subject of confusion, the rim! Let us look at the non-pulmor
separately from the pulmor. This rim is all metal, and the very early '46
and some '47 production has nearly scale flanges. Also the flat area (tread)
is slightly smaller in diameter than the pulmor versions. This can get
confusing as the pulmor wheels come in both metal rim and pulmor rim
versions. If you mix the two on a loco, it will not sit level, or if you
combine the two on one axle, it will rock (we will rock you!--sorry, just
flew into my mind).
Now for the TIRE. As I mentioned, there are three options here. Thin pulmor
bands and thick pulmor bands designed to add pulmor or repair pulmor RIMS.
And the latest option (and so far the best) is the replacement rim with
pulmor tire (Neil produces these--THANK YOU Neil, a badly needed product!).
I don't believe the thin band will work well on the very early rims, due
to the smaller flange. the thick one definitely won't! It is designed to go
on a pulmor rim that has had its tire removed.
Now if you want to put a pulmor rim on an earlier non-pulmor chassis,
you will have to grind away the front and bottom edge of the rear body mount
tabs. This was detailed in an ACG repair sheet somewhere (that's when I
first got the clue on rim diameters). Hmm, this is assuming you put the rim
on the rear axle. If you just add the rims to the rear axle, you may find
the pilot striking the track on grade changes, so you might want to find a
junker loco with the larger rims and rob them for your front wheels too.
OK, so is that now a clearer mud mess than before??? If not, blame it on
the meds!
NURSE!!
;-)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18102 From: Neil Trump Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: 302-New Pulmor Tires......
To all:-

I'd like to disagree with Dave here, although there are some slight
differences between pull-mor rims (including the new repro pm rims) and
early non pm rims, you can substitute them if you wish.

Just to remind myself, I measured both types and the measurements are as
follows.

They both share an overall thickness between 4.78mm and 4.80mm, give a gnats
do da.

Where Dave is right in one way and slightly off beam in another is that the
early non pm rim does indeed have a narrower running surface, but this is
compensated for by having a thicker flange. The later pm rims have a wider
running surface and a thinner flange thickness, so you end up with the same
overall rim thickness as above at the top. Where there is a difference
between the rims is the overall diameter, on the pre pm rims they can be
about 1 mm smaller (29.66 v 30.66)

What is most important is the reassembly of the wheels back onto the chassis
and re-gauging them correctly. I always set mine by measuring the back to
back of the rims to 18.00 mm, which is near enough the same as the factory
setting.

I'm guessing that Bob may not have the correct back to back measurement and
may also not have the hub pushed in far enough, perhaps Bob can confirm
these details for us.

Another point to watch on rebuilding wheels rims, is to make sure that the
black hub is pushed in and is flush with the white insulator. This is
essential as you have to have roughly 1 mm of the hub sitting proud.

I have also learnt that Gilbert actually made three different styles of hub.
The early ones had a smooth edge to them where they lock into the insulator.
The second type was similar and had a small amount of knurling on them. The
third and last type had full knurling on them. They all do the same job and
are interchangeable, just make sure you select the same hub like for like
with regards to it having a screw thread for the side rod or the brass bush
.

Hope this helps

Neil T.

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "yazfacts" <YAZFACTS@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] 302-New Pulmor Tires......


> Bob,
> Yes, their are different sizes of steam loco tires, pre-pull mor have
> narrower flanges even. Pull-mor wheels are not regular wheels with tires
> added, so putting repro tires on your wheels won't work, the are designed
to
> go on stripped old pull mor wheels.
> S'
> DAvid D
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
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>
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>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18103 From: rodgers_carl Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Whitewall repairs
There's nothing wrong with it, except that the money spent on all
the "tinkering", might be better spent supporting the parts dealers
efforts. Many times I've read on this board, about all the things
that aren't available and why not.
The "why not", is all the tinkering. You can't expect people to
invest money in new products, when they hear that you would rather
spend more money on tinkering.

I've read on this board about tiejector ties glued and cut, mail
posts and other parts wittled from 2x4's. And then complaints about
why so and so dosen't make this or that.

Supporting a hobby means, supporting the people or make the things
that make the hobby.

That my point and I'm sticken to it.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18104 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Whitewall repairs
Hi,

IMHO, tinkering begets parts orders. Personally, if I didn't tinker so much, I'd save a fortune on parts. If all I wanted to do was run what I have, my hobby would die. Experimenting and trying to increase the complexity and diversity of my little railroad is what keeps it vital for me. I can't wait for the next train show - hopefully one of our parts dealers will be there to supply my needs so I can go home and tinker.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: rodgers_carl
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 11:55 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Whitewall repairs


There's nothing wrong with it, except that the money spent on all
the "tinkering", might be better spent supporting the parts dealers
efforts. Many times I've read on this board, about all the things
that aren't available and why not.
The "why not", is all the tinkering. You can't expect people to
invest money in new products, when they hear that you would rather
spend more money on tinkering.

I've read on this board about tiejector ties glued and cut, mail
posts and other parts wittled from 2x4's. And then complaints about
why so and so dosen't make this or that.

Supporting a hobby means, supporting the people or make the things
that make the hobby.

That my point and I'm sticken to it.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18105 From: David Dewey Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Whitewall repairs
Carl & all,
It's not the price of the replacement part, it is the somewhat
challenging process of wheel pulling and re-quartering that is driving this
idea. Not everyone has a wheel puller, or is comfortable with quartering
drivers. I respect that hesitation, and the ingenuity of finding other
options. Who knows, someone might invent a better mousetrap!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18106 From: David Dewey Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Boring American Flyer layouts
Ah, now someone has touched the truth of the subject--Some layouts are art,
some are fun, some are at both extremes and some fall in the middle
somewhere. Not all art is for everyone, and some completely puzzles me, and
probably you too!
As for boredom.... I recall on train show we were running Howard's layout. A
Young'un, probably about 10 years old came by and watched for a few minutes,
near the control panel. "That's boring, it just goes around and around!"
I didn't say a word, but started up the log loader.
"OH! COOL!"
Then we took the logs to the other side of the layout, by the sawmill
and dumped them. A few more laps of the "boring loop" and we backed into the
sawmill siding and loaded a car. later we loaded oil drums. Then we showed
him the Gabe button. I think he played and watched for about 15 minutes
before his parents had to drag him away.
BORING??? I think not.
I will admit, I've been to a show with modules that are incredible, one
of the feather river canyon. I got down to eye level and watched a train
snake through it, WOW, that was realistic. OK, neat for me, but mostly the
kids just walked by. Different stuff for different folks, and different
ages. I think AF has the ability to grab the youth into the hobby, and S has
the variety (Width they say in MLM biz) to keep them there, whether it be
"Tinplate" "Highrail" or "Scale." We truly are in the "perfect gauge"!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18107 From: srgriggs Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Oddball GG-1
I remember seeing the ad for these in S Gaugian when they came out.
Don't remember them being advertised for very long, though. I
considered buying one, but I think the company had already folded when
I inquired.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of stuff failed on them? Parts you
could retrofit like motors or more specialized things like gearboxes,
etc?

--- In S-Trains@y..., "ron inscho" <ronnat@c...> wrote:
> I think you have the Mfrs. name right He was in Pikerington Oh. &
made these
> in the early to mid 80's .I had 4 of them & all turned junk after
about 6
> to 8 hours running. Construction & components were not much beyond
the
> prototype stage & poor runners at best. They sold new for around
$225.00.
> When I tried to get replacement parts or service I was told they
had gone
> out of buissness ,small wonder why?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18108 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Small spaces
--- In S-Trains@y..., Rance and Bente Velapoldi <velapoldi@n...>
wrote:
> Hi all:
> The thread of small spaces (which probably would fit inside a 10x10
or
> so area) has come up. Does anyone have some layouts that they have
put
> into small spaces so that we can get some ideas on what to cram in
or
> what not to? Drawings, schematics, pictures, etc.? Of course,
some of
> this is dependent on the type of terrain, industry, urban, rural,
etc.
> that one wants to model. But I think it would be interesting to see
> what some of you have done in scale and hi-rail in small spaces in
S.
> Tx
> Rance Velapoldi


Good Idea. Since I am trying to "cram" as much as I can with flyer
into a 12 x 12 bedroom, I would also like to see some photos of what
others here have done. John.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18109 From: crustyfour Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Laying Homosote
I am getting ready to lay sheet homosote over a base of 1/2" plywood
on my 10' x 16' "L" shaped Flyer layout. What is the best way to
secure the homosote? Wood screws? nails? glue? bubble gum? a
combination of these? I would like to reduce the noise as much as
possible.

Suggestions ??

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 18110 From: Gene Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Laying Homosote
How about "Liquid Nails"?

crustyfour wrote:

> I am getting ready to lay sheet homosote over a base of 1/2" plywood
> on my 10' x 16' "L" shaped Flyer layout. What is the best way to
> secure the homosote? Wood screws? nails? glue? bubble gum? a
> combination of these? I would like to reduce the noise as much as
> possible.
>
> Suggestions ??
>
> Steve Blancard
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18111 From: ron inscho Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Oddball GG-1
The motors were an unknown make & apeared to be re cycled or used but they
were not too bad, it was the gears they were of some soft metal the same
soft metal was used for the the trucks & every thing even the frame was
soft.The body didn't look too bad but was made of something like auto body
filler. & I am suprised if it would hold up to any handling
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18112 From: nasglibrary Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Russell M. Mobley Memorial Library
All --

The NASG's Russell M. Mobley Memorial Library has joined the S-Trains
e-group in order to better promote Library services. From time to time
Library announcements will be posted here (as well as in the NASG
Dispatch, NASG website, and the S-Scale e-list). Comments, inquiries,
and requests should be directed off-list to the Library at this e-mail
address, with the NASG membership number in the "subject" field.

The Library has several items of interest to AF/hirail fans:

* 1953 AF catalog
* 1952 "American Flyer Instruction Book"
* Hannon's "First Edition ACGilbert's Postwar American Flyer S-Gauge
Reference Manual"
* Original S Gaugians for loan-out

Detailed instructions for securing Library services appear in the
current NASG Dispatch.

Additionally, the Library has received a large quantity of S gauge kit
instructions and plansand has been seeking reproduction permissions
from various present and past kit manufacturers. Following is the
status of these:

Permissions granted:

Ambroid:
ACL watermelon car
Stock car
B&M snowplow
Finestkind Mdls.(permission granted for instructions but NOT for plans):

#108 Silverton Hardware
#110 Tristar Oil Co.
#104 Montezuma Post Office & Store
#103 Ophir Tram House
Kinsman:
7-panel boxcar
Phosphate car
36' billboard reefer
Outside-braced reefer (PRR, Mathieson Dry Ice)
Northeastern Scale Models:
USRA double-sheathed boxcar
AAR stock car
Omnicon Scale Models Miller Alco repowering instructions
PVR Kits single-track trestle
Quality Craft:
D&H caboose
CPR bathtub gon
GSCX rotary gon
N&W twin hopper car
Rex instruction booklets:
B&O 0-4-0T Dockside
0-6-0 Switcher
2-4-4T Suburban
2-6-0 Mogul
Steam Locomotives (0-4-0, 0-6-0, 2-6-0)

Permissions denied:

Lehigh Valley Models
Scenery Unlimited

Still pending:

Arkansas Valley Scale Models
Regal Kits
S Scale Loco & Supply
Taurus Products
Tomalco
Train Stuff
Wisconsin Central
Ye Olde Huff-N-Puff

Public domain (per NASG lawyer W. E. J. Collins):

Kansas City Kits tank car (no plan)
Nimco welded steel boxcar, reefer
Perma-Bilt house cars (no plan)
Super Scale passenger cars (no plan)

Those for which permission has been granted, or which are
public domain, are 10 cents per equivalent 8-1/2 x 11 sheet.

When the permission exercise is finished, the full list will appear on
S-Trains,
S-Scale, the NASG website, and in the NASG Dispatch.

Dick Karnes, Librarian
Russell M. Mobley Memorial Library
NASG Inc.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18113 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1363
Add my name to the list. The check will go out tomorrow.

Thorin

Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:17:07 -0500
From: Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...>
Subject: Re: re: Excessive Sparking

From: <Anormal1@...>
> OK Chris, put me down for 1 jar. How do you want to handle the
> transfer of funds? Mike S.

Send me a check for $25.
Make it out to me.

Chris Zizzo
85 Scudder Place
Northport, N.Y. 11768-3026

Include your complete address so I can mail it back.

Chris Z.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18114 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: AF Trestle set
Anyone use an AF trestle set? Opinions? Are they a Hit, or a Miss?
Alternatives? Thanks,John.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18115 From: Alan C Udy Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Current Meter
Radio Shack is currently running a sale on a current-probe equipped
digital multi meter. The zero - three and zero to 15 ()also to 30)
ranges will cover what we use in our Flyer equipment. I'll have to try
it on S-Helper and American Models, with their lower current draw. Just
clamp the probe around one of the wires to the track or transformer and
observe what your current is. As Power = Volts X Amperes, you can see
how close to the limit you are running your vintage transformers.

Radio Shack #22-602, on sale for $12.99

Alan Udy
Idaho Falls, ID

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18116 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Hi John,
I have a set of the orange trestles. Got them when I was around five years
old. I always ran my trains off of the trestles on the way down. My engines
had to have the transformer turned way up to pull the trains up the hill and
when it got over the top, Look Out!
Now I am using S-Helper Switchers and my flyer that has been converted to Can
motor with flywheel and no longer have that problem. Smooth up and down
without any noticeable change in speed.
Now remember, I was five when I had the troubles before. I didn't know the
engine didn't come with 15 cars. Thus, I tried to pull them all with a 336. I
love the look of the trestle set myself. I'm glad I never got rid of them.

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18117 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Laying Homosote
Carpenter's Glue works for me. A small glob every 6 inches in both
directions. Weight the foam down for a few hours.

Gene wrote:
>
> How about "Liquid Nails"?
>
> crustyfour wrote:
>
> > I am getting ready to lay sheet homosote over a base of 1/2" plywood
> > on my 10' x 16' "L" shaped Flyer layout. What is the best way to
> > secure the homosote? Wood screws? nails? glue? bubble gum? a
> > combination of these? I would like to reduce the noise as much as
> > possible.
> >
> > Suggestions ??
> >
> > Steve Blancard
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18118 From: bassflyer Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: I uploaded some more pics..........
I have uploaded a pic from Christmas of 1962,...showing yours
truly, and the same #282 Loco ("Mountaineer" set from '53), as in my
Christmas 2000 and Fall layout pics at the S-Trains site.

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18119 From: bassflyer Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Test!! Delete.....
Just testing the site,....posting seems slower than usual.
Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18120 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Caig Update
I've started to get checks in the mail (see, it's not always a lie!) and
there are now 28 jars ordered. Jack Riely may increase that after his club
meeting tonight. It will take 36 to complete the third case. If anybody
else wants to come aboard, e-mail me now. -- C.Z.

Here's who I have so far:

Mike Berger
Steve Blackburn
Tim Brown
Clay Buckage X2
David Dewey
Art Goodell
Jim Grimes
Bob Guckian
Bob Kimball
James C. Knight
Thorin Marty
Lance McCold
Mike Newcomer
Sam J. Pellegrino
Paul Policarpo
Dick Purnell
Jack Riely +?
Russ Sanford
Mike Strickland
Howard Sheffield
Alex Sibbald
Eugene Steffan
Tom Stoltz
G. Leigh Swanson
Steve Terni
Rance Velapoldi
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18121 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Laying Homosote
Hi Steve,

It has been suggested that gluing down the homosote over top of the plywood and holding it in place with some screws is best. After the glue has dried, back the screws out and patch the holes. Any nails or spikes used to hold down the track should not go through the homosote into the plywood. Nails, etc. act as a sound and vibration transmitter.

Regards,
Tim

------ Original Message -----
From: crustyfour
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 1:44 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Laying Homosote


I am getting ready to lay sheet homosote over a base of 1/2" plywood
on my 10' x 16' "L" shaped Flyer layout. What is the best way to
secure the homosote? Wood screws? nails? glue? bubble gum? a
combination of these? I would like to reduce the noise as much as
possible.

Suggestions ??

Steve Blancard


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18122 From: imsscott Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Caig products
--- In S-Trains@y..., "Horn, David" <david.horn@b...> wrote:
> Yup, I remember these from previous posts. If I remember correctly
several folks, including Tom J, were going to try them on numerous
things from rails to armature commutators.... any news guys? How'd
it go with them? CZ seems to be a believer.

I just got back from a conference and can put my two cents in. I got
the Cailube L260Np (no particles) to try on commutators. It seemed
like the no particle version would be better for commutators. I put
too much on and the engine wouldn't run. Trying again with a very
small amount worked better. It does seem to reduce sparking. I think
Caig's preservative sprays would be better for armatures though.
Trying this same lube on the track completely eliminated sparking in
sections where this was a problem.

I also have Caig's Deoxit D5 spray, (only item I can get locally,)
which is great for cleaning grease, oil, and crud out of engines.
Even better is their R5 Power Booster which is non-flammable so you
can run an engine right away after spraying and even spray it on a
running engine. It is amazing to hear the engine rev up when sprayed.
Also have Deoxit pads which are impregnated with Deoxit and great for
cleaning track. And also Deoxit D100 which is a 100% solution which
can be used as a finishing touch on a commutator. They also have
Deoxit gold which is supposed to be even better as a finish coat.

What I would recommend is to use their cleaning pads for cleaning the
track and then apply the Cailube as a coating. For armatures clean
them with deoxit or R5 power booster and then finish with a D100 or
gold spray. Oil the bearing points too because these sprays might
have dissolved the oil.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18123 From: Lance McCold Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Boring American Flyer layouts
Steve,

Where could we see photos of the Rocky Mountain Hi-Railer's layout? I am
sure it would be in inspiration,

Lance McCold
Knoxville, Tennessee

>Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:11:12 EST
> From: boss31@...
>Subject: Boring American Flyer layouts
>
>
>I just want to respond to recent remarks that American Flyer Layouts are
>boring when compared to S-Scale layouts. As a hi-railer with a nice American
>Flyer collection I defy each and any one of you to watch the "Rocky Mountain
>Hi-Railer's" predominantly Flyer layout and call it boring.
>With all kinds of accessories clanging and banging all the time, three
>complete loops on two levels with connections from loop to loop and the
>double # crossing causing the name "Look out Junction" You couldn't possibly
>find the time to be bored. Kids of all ages swarm to it at train shows, and
>it is the envy (for spectator participation) of all the other layouts of any
>scale. We hand out many, many "S" gauge flyers and brochures at each function
>we attend. The club has a very small geographic population compared to other
>clubs in the country, yet it's membership has grown to over 20 active members
>in only 5 yrs. of existence. Hinkey looking couplers? Yes, Ugly track with
>wide spaced ties? Yes, Gotta run em fast to keep the reverse unit coil
>engaged? Yes, Does the public love it and know it is "S" scale? You bet they
>do by the time this club is through with them.
>I admire the Jess Bennett's and Bill Fraley's and Frank Titman's to no end,
>but for having FUN, Gimme the Flyer stuff to watch. It is anything but
>boring. Just MHO.
>
>
>Steve Blackburn
>Boise, Idaho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18124 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Small spaces
Hi all:
I know that there are a lot of schematics out there, especially
published in the past. I must have every layout book/magazine
published. But the operative words that I used and am most interested
in are "what have current s-gaugers (scale or high rail) actually built,
what do they look like (pictures) and what are the overall schematics of
the produced s-gauge layouts." If the 20-30 page brochure, or even
calendar is given out as advertisements at train shows, etc. (as was
suggested by one of the list members) it serves a much larger segment of
model railroading and shows them what is going on in S. That's the
basic objective. I even expanded it from small to medium to large size
S-layouts. I would also be willing to buy one of these to look at,
appreciate, drool over, and even use ideas that people have incorporated
into their scale and/or hi-rail layouts.
Rance Velapoldi
Group: S-Trains Message: 18125 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Small spaces
We currently have a portable that is 16 by 25. The young folks are just
spell bound as they stand there in front of it. Oh, forgot that's inches,
not feet!
Tom D.
----- Original Message -----
From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 12:13 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Small spaces


> --- In S-Trains@y..., Rance and Bente Velapoldi <velapoldi@n...>
> wrote:
> > Hi all:
> > The thread of small spaces (which probably would fit inside a 10x10
> or
> > so area) has come up. Does anyone have some layouts that they have
> put
> > into small spaces so that we can get some ideas on what to cram in
> or
> > what not to? Drawings, schematics, pictures, etc.? Of course,
> some of
> > this is dependent on the type of terrain, industry, urban, rural,
> etc.
> > that one wants to model. But I think it would be interesting to see
> > what some of you have done in scale and hi-rail in small spaces in
> S.
> > Tx
> > Rance Velapoldi
>
>
> Good Idea. Since I am trying to "cram" as much as I can with flyer
> into a 12 x 12 bedroom, I would also like to see some photos of what
> others here have done. John.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18126 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: AF Trestle set
Hi,

I use a trestle set and a high-trestle set combined on my layout with stable results. I use track locks and screw the base of the trestles down. I suggest when you change grades, do it on a straight piece of track. Keep the number one trestle a section or two away from switches, etc. for best results.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: hcopter52
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 2:42 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] AF Trestle set


Anyone use an AF trestle set? Opinions? Are they a Hit, or a Miss?
Alternatives? Thanks,John.


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18127 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: whitewall repairs
I received a letter from a reader who complained that the repro whitewalls
were thicker (higher)(taller) than the originals. He gave measurements. I
have not checked. Never have used the repros.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18128 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Hams for Flyer
Any Amateur Radio Ops interested in an American Flyer Weekly Net?
Please email me if you would like to start a net. Thanks,John.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18129 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: whitewall repairs
We used repro whitewalls on my 336 when we put the new pulmor wheels on and
had no problem like that at all. Bought them from Doug at Portlines. This
might be a case of buying parts from someone that doesn't have good quality
parts. I know Doug does.

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18130 From: Steve Blancard Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: installing Homasote
Thanks for all the suggestions on laying down the homosote. This list
is a great resource. Think I'll use the liquid nails and weights.

Steve Blancard

Boss31@... wrote:

> . What is the best way to
> secure the homosote? Wood screws? nails? glue? bubble gum? a
>
> Use liquid nails. It comes in a big tube like caulking compound and
> fits in one of those caulking guns. Use the slower drying "water clean
> up" version in the Gold and Blue tube. Be sure to put weights of some
> type evenly on the homasote and let it dry overnight. Best possible
> solution. No metal to transmit sound into the wood base.
>
> Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18131 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Boring American Flyer layouts
Well let me be last, least or whatever
but I agree with Roy and most others
that Steve's videos are great. I enjoy watching
other AF layouts even though mine is
high rail with scenery rather than accessories.

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn

Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 13:41:01 -0000
From: "royhoffman" <rhoffman@...>
Subject: Re: Boring American Flyer layouts

Steve,

I'm on both lists and remarks like "AF is
boring" and "scale crap" are not helping
our cause. I guess there are people who
will buy your tapes and fast-forward past
the "boring" stuff. I sure don't because
there is absolutely NOTHING that is 1:64
that is boring. Incidentely, my wife and I
enjoyed seeing how fast Gabe got down
after he lit the lamps. Has anyone timed him
on the ACG, Lionel or MTH versions.
I'm glad that almost all of us are just trying
to have fun.

Roy
Group: S-Trains Message: 18132 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, March 10, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains
Group: S-Trains Message: 18133 From: notcoldenough Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Replacement Mohair for cattle / people
I've had some inquiries as to how to find the replacement mohair I
mentioned in an earlier message. I purchased it at Joanne Fabrics in
their ribbon section. See picture at this link for a photo of the
ribbon along with the product info.

http://www.geocities.com/notcoldenough/replacementmohair.jpg

When I went back to the fabric store to find the product info, I
discovered it was being discontinued (at least from Joanne). So, I
purchased two remaining spools. If you can't find it & would like
some, I'll part with some of mine at cost - $1/foot. I have a few
yards of black ribbon & brown ribbon.

If interested, contact me off-line.

John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 18134 From: M.McConnell Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Current Meter
I looked up the meter Alan mentioned on Radio Shack's WEB site
(http://www.radioshack.com - enter the meter part number "22-602" in the
search box.)

The meter is an analog meter, not digital - and the meter will only check
AC current (the DC current range is only 150ma, too small to be of use for
trains). However, for $13 it would still be a useful tool for troubleshooting.

Thanks Alan.
Michael


>Message: 25
> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:30:17 -0700
> From: Alan C Udy <nsupbnsf@...>
>Subject: Current Meter
>
>
>Radio Shack is currently running a sale on a current-probe equipped
>digital multi meter. The zero - three and zero to 15 ()also to 30)
>ranges will cover what we use in our Flyer equipment. I'll have to try
>it on S-Helper and American Models, with their lower current draw. Just
>clamp the probe around one of the wires to the track or transformer and
>observe what your current is. As Power = Volts X Amperes, you can see
>how close to the limit you are running your vintage transformers.
>
>
>Radio Shack #22-602, on sale for $12.99
>
>
>Alan Udy
>Idaho Falls, ID
Group: S-Trains Message: 18135 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: My layout
Hi Guys,

There were a few comments recently about members wanting to see home layouts constructed in a small space. I constructed a simple web page this evening and here is a link to my home layout (work in progress) in a fairly small space:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html

Regards,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18136 From: notcoldenough Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Loading Platform
My 770 loading platform works fine with one box or milk can loaded at
a time. If I stack in several in the spring loaded loader, it tends
to jam. The next milk can slides into place before the man slides
back. It is worse with the milk cans than with boxes.

Any ideas?

John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 18137 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Boring American Flyer layouts
I refer you to check out HTTP://www.travel.to/cofa
This layout has special, lighting at night, special sound effects. I long winding
grade,
7 tunnels, a curved double trestle, animation and much more. What else do you need
so it is not boring. Oh, It is all AC Gilbert American Flyer.

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 18138 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Reply- Track Cleaning
I have tried Navy Jelly and it did nothing to the rust.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18139 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Loading Platform
--- notcoldenough <NotColdEnough@...> wrote:
>
> My 770 loading platform works fine with one box or milk can loaded at
> a time. If I stack in several in the sring loaded loader, it tends
> to jam. The next milk can slides into place before the man slides
> back. It is worse with the milk cans than with boxes.

What you have to do is adjust it so that the arm goes no further than
the middle of the milk can. Make sure that the base of the man is as
far to the right as possible in the bracket. It might be necessary to
unbend the tabs to get him all the way there. Also, you can bend the
bracket up slightly on the left side which will cause the man to tilt a
little to the right. You can also try bending the man, but this is
risky since it is cast and might break. Doing all this should get the
arm back to the middle or farther, but if you still aren't there, you
could remove the man and trim the right side of the base.

Has anybody ever gotten the loader to load a 734 car so that the boxes
or cans can then be unloaded by the 734? My 770 shoots the bozes in
there so fast there is no hope of this. The boxes end up all jammed in
there every which way and require the BHITS (Big Hand In The Sky) to
lift up the car and shake them out. Running the 770 on a dialed-down
transformer makes for a little more gentle operation.

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18140 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: R5 Power booster and reversing handcar
Got a chance to follow my own advice tonight. I just tried the
reversing handcar with a headless man that I got off Ebay and it just
sort of grunted. I sprayed in some R5 power booster and it immediately
took off like mad and works equally well in both directions. That
headless guy pumps just as good as the headed one!

I think somebody asked this once before; What's a good thing to use for
the reversing handcar to bump into?







__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18141 From: Lance McCold Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: SHS flex track
I need to buy a 24-piece box of SHS flex track. Does anyone have
suggestions about where I could get it for the best price?

Thanks,

Lance McCold
Knoxville
Group: S-Trains Message: 18142 From: jnr59@aol.com Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Laying Homosote
Question,
Can one then glue? cork roadbed to the homosote and then the track to the
corkbed? I guess the cork roadbed would not be enough to absorb the
vibration. Correct?

Thanks,

Jack R.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18143 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Loading Platform
Hi John,

It sounds like you either need to make an adjustment or replacement to the spring controlling the man.

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: notcoldenough
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 9:05 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Loading Platform



My 770 loading platform works fine with one box or milk can loaded at
a time. If I stack in several in the spring loaded loader, it tends
to jam. The next milk can slides into place before the man slides
back. It is worse with the milk cans than with boxes.

Any ideas?

John Gasal






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18144 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Laying Homosote
We have had good luck gluing track directly to roadbed, and the roadbed
is glued down to foam or homosote. The biggest problem with roadbed we
have found is that ballasting with diluted Elmer's glue makes the
roadbed ballast itself quite a resonator. Someone suggested that
ballasting with matte medium as ballast cement alleviates this problem.

jnr59@... wrote:
>
> Question,
> Can one then glue? cork roadbed to the homosote and then the track to the
> corkbed? I guess the cork roadbed would not be enough to absorb the
> vibration. Correct?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jack R.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18145 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: S scale airplanes
I just got the Lockheed 10 Electra airplane from diecastdirects's
1/64th scale list. It is 8.25 inches long and a real one is supposed to
be 37 feet so it's a little too big. The wingspan is 11.375 and a real
one is supposed to be 55 feet. It works out to be either 1/56 or 1/58
scale depending on whether wingspan or length is used. It's really nice
looking though and will complement a Plasticville airport.

The B-17G from American Models is a Lindberg kit and is dead on 1/64
scale with a length of 14 inches. Finding room on the layout for this
is going to be problem though, as it is pretty big.





__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18146 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1368
In a message dated 03/08/2002 9:39:30 PM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> Steve,
>
> Where could we see photos of the Rocky Mountain Hi-Railer's layout? I am
> sure it would be in inspiration,
>
> Lance McCold
> Knoxville, Tennessee
>
>

"S-Gauge Model Railroading" video Volume I, although it has enlarged since
the video was taken. This thing just keeps on growing, 'n growing, 'n
growing, kinda like the battery...

Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18147 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/8/2002
Subject: Re: Loading Platform
I'm not sure of the # of our loading platform. It's the one with the
adjustable drop position at the end of the ramp.

Anyway, here's what I've done to make it work reliably:

1: Removed all corrosion from the ramp. The exposed metal bottom of
the ramp (not the painted sides) is tin plated when new, but after
enough time even tin-plated steel can corrode. Mine was corroded
enough that the boxes wouldn't slide down the ramp more than halfway.
They should be able to slide down the ramp with just a little force.
That way, you don't need the man (whassisname?) to fling them into
the car. You don't want to use brute force (excess voltage)
to "power" the guy through his moves because you may break the guy's
arm, and he will just tend to catapult the boxes out of the ramp
anyway. If the boxes don't follow the ramp on their way down, they
probably won't find their way into the boxcar. I polished the ramp
using a 1" wire wheel on a moto-tool. (The painted sides were
protected with masking tape.) The remaining tin was lost, but by
waxing the steel with a paste wax such as that for waxing wood
furniture, corrosion is inhibited, and the surface left is very
slippery. I also polished and waxed the "boxes." (We have the
sintered-iron kind. They seem to work better than the cast boxes,
although the cast boxes might work well enough if the casting marks
are filed away.)

2: It's also necessary to make sure the "loader" guy is tightly
mounted in the clip that moves him. If the figure can rattle around
in the clip , much energy is lost.

3: It is critical that the sliding clip holding the figure can move
freely. This mechanism works best when dry. If there's oil or grease
between the clip and the surface it slides against, surface tension,
or eventually gunk, will inhibit the action. This is usually
evidenced by a sluggish return motion, when the guy doesn't slide
back far enough to "grab" the next box. To "lube" the mechanism, I
took a piece of typing paper, waxed it on both sides with the same
wax mentioned in (1.), inserted it between the clip and the surface
it rests on, and left it there. The paper doesn't show, and it works
very smoothly.

The guy almost always makes a clean "pitch" into the car. If he
misses, it's usually with the first of four boxes, since the first
has the most spring tension against it. I sometimes restrict
the "load" to three boxes if it's really imperative that things go
smoothly, like at a show.

We have the 974 boxcar (I think that's the #), and yes, we do unload
the boxes from the car onto the platform deck right after loading
them from the ramp. (I usually explain the immediate unloading by
attributing it to "missing shipping labels" or some other paperwork
glitch.)

To aid the boxes in rolling down the car's internal ramp, I dry-lubed
the rollers with teflon powder. Here again, using a liquid lubricant
will eventually cause more problems than it solves.

To keep the metal boxes from scratching the loading dock as they
spring from the car, we cover the deck surface with a piece of black
felt. The thing is collectible, after all... :^)

Haven't used the milk cans with our loader, so I can't help there.
Nothing advised above should adversely affect can operation, however.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18148 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Re: My layout
Tim,

I would love to have this much "small space"! But how did you do that
horse shoe curve area. It looks like you have different radius Gilbert
track. I have not had any luck doing concentric circles with original AF
track...

Thanks, Chuck

Tim Brown wrote:

>Hi Guys,
>
>There were a few comments recently about members wanting to see home layouts constructed in a small space.
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18149 From: trzp1800 Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Truck Repairs
Hi:
Could use a little help with repairs to my 0-8-0 tender trucks. My
tender has type 10 and type 11 trucks on it. On both sets the
sintered iron sideframes are loose. What is the best way to tighten
these up. I'm an operator, so they will get used.
Thanks,
Ted
Group: S-Trains Message: 18150 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Re: My layout
Hi Chuck,

Very observant of you to notice the 'larger' radius of curved track on the upper horseshoe. There are several ways to achieve this. You could get K-line 54" diameter track and Johnson roadbed to match, or you could rebend Flyer track. What I did, however, was to insert cut sections of straight track between the sections of curve to broaden out the radius. From a distance, it looks okay. Right up on it, you can see. Seems to work fine.

I'm using four #8b - 100 watt transformers I bought at about $25 each. I think the key to milking as much steady current from them as possible it to run jumper wires every couple feet. I believe it's critical to use jumper wires between switches and crossovers. When laying the track, I bent the connecting pins out just a little to promote good contact and tried to get the track ends as tight together and seamless as possible. Also, I don't run diesels - too much current draw.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Harrington
Cc: S-List
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] My layout


Tim,

I would love to have this much "small space"! But how did you do that
horse shoe curve area. It looks like you have different radius Gilbert
track. I have not had any luck doing concentric circles with original AF
track...

Thanks, Chuck

Tim Brown wrote:

>Hi Guys,
>
>There were a few comments recently about members wanting to see home layouts constructed in a small space.
>



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18151 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Re: Truck Repairs
Hi Ted,

Not knowing how to tighten those effectively myself, I've used epoxy where it doesn't show. Seems to work.

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: trzp1800
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 6:36 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Truck Repairs


Hi:
Could use a little help with repairs to my 0-8-0 tender trucks. My
tender has type 10 and type 11 trucks on it. On both sets the
sintered iron sideframes are loose. What is the best way to tighten
these up. I'm an operator, so they will get used.
Thanks,
Ted


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18152 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Imfeld GG1 on E-Bay (was Oddball GG1)
To all:
I had an Imfeld GG1 and was very pleased with it. It was noisy. It
was a star performer. I got one of the last ones and maybe that made the
difference. I have been talking directly to Joe (the seller) and at least
one of the potential customers. As 'not nice' things have been said, I will
list these e-mails here.

Thorin

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Rich:
The Imfeld GG1 is extremely compatible with American Flyer. A. M.
Imfeld had always wanted a GG1 and set out to build the GG1 that A.C.
Gilbert would have built. (A.C. never did because of the extreme length.)
Compared to the American Models GG1 it is crude -- It has a very thick shell
and the details are exaggerated. It was also the first GG1 ever offered in
S Gauge!
It runs fine on all AF track but it really is happier with the
K-Line broad curves (22 inch radius vs. 27 inch radius.) It came in
highrail wheels only. It does successfully negotiate American Flyer
S-Curves.
The Pantograph does go up and down but is so stiff it can not be
used for actual power pickup.
As manufactured, there is an A.F. reverser in one of the noses. The
cut-out bar has been cut off. A slide switch under the center of the cab
provides the cut-out by cutting power to the coil. The power is rectified
before the reverser. The reverser's output is fed to the dual Pitman-86
motors. (The other nose has a capacitor to smooth the DC.)
In mine, I promptly rewired it so my DC went directly to the motors.
The one for sale is not mine -- mine had dual working AF compatible
couplers. John's are dummies. (Easy to change.)

It was a top performer (I sold mine in July 2000). It would pull anything I
put behind it. My biggest complaints are the lack of scale detail and it
was a bear to get onto the tracks -- too many wheels. (American Models will
be doing another run of GG1s later this year and I will purchase one of
these. So I will be returning to the land of 'too many wheels.!) As such,
once on the rails, it stayed on the rails. It did not derail much. Mind
did have a 'front' and a 'rear'. 'Forward' and it stayed on. 'Backward'
and it would soon derail. As it had an assigned passenger train and was
stored in a staging yard, this was not an issue.
I can not compare the running of the Imfeld GG1 and the American
Models as I don't have the American Models yet. I have studied the AM to
decide if I wanted to someday buy the AM instead. The linkage between the C
truck and the pilot trucks on the Imfeld and the American Models is so
similar that I wonder if Ron saw one before building his. (All the ideas
are the same.)

If you are looking for a very powerful, 'tinplate' GG1, this is the unit for
you. If you want a less powerful but accurate model, get the American
Models.

I assume John forwarded the information I sent yesterday.

I hope I have answered your questions,
Thorin

-----Original Message-----
From: rhalprin@... [mailto:rhalprin@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 4:45 PM
To: thorin.marty@...
Subject: Jon Solomon GG1


Dear Sir:
I have been reviewing Jon Solomon's offering of a GG-1 which you have
pointed out to him as being made by MField and not American Models. He
said I might be able to ask you some questions about it.

1) Would you know if it is comparable with regular American Flyer (AC
Gilbert) rolling Stock?
2) Can it run on AC Gilbert Track?
3) Is it AC or DC?

He said you owned one and I was wondering if you could rate its overall
performance - even against American Models if possible?

Anything else you can add about the unit is greatly appreciated so I can
offer Jon the highest bid possible.

Rich

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message #2
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear John:
The Imfeld GG1 is a BEAST. It is HEAVY. (You know: you have one.)
It is what A. D. Imfeld felt the GG1 would look like if A.C. had decided to
build one. It is not SCALE and was never billed as such.
The American Models GG1 is a SCALE model (available with scale or
larger flanges).

Its value is close to the AM GG1. Why? It can pull anything you put behind
it. The AM GG1 is, by comparison, a light weight locomotive.

Curiosity forces me to ask "Who did you get it from?" as I sold mine about a
year ago.

Here is the information I indicated I had:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

4801, PRR GG1 by Imfeld
Car type | Electric: GG1
Manufacturer |
A. D. Imfeld Co., 365 Beech Ave.,
Fairfield, OH 45014 (513) 896-6516
Car number | 4801
RR name | Pennsylvania.
Greenburg 1992 Volume | -
Greenburg 1992 Page | -
Greenburg 1992 Var. | -
Value | - Sold -
Date of Value | July 1, 2000 - date of sale.
Source of Value | Original price
Greenburg 1984 Page | -
Greenburg 1984 Var. | -
Year manufactured | 1985
Original price | $240.00
Date Purchased/Recv'd | July, 1985
Price paid | $240.00
Last Owner | A. D. Imfeld Co.
Received New/Used | New
Condition | EX
Unique | -
Original Box | -
Instructions | -
Entry created date | Before March 20, 1997
Comments |
{
GG1.
Quoting the add in the January/February 1985 issue of the S Gaugian: "S
Gauge GG1. Designed for tinplate operation. AC or DC models available.
Construction features: machined nickel-plated steel wheels with precision
ground stainless steel axles; industrial quality bronze bearings; forged,
welded and ground steel frame; two Pittman DC-86 motors; Hobbytown of Boston
universals; all metal gearing; headlights and operable pantographs. Send
SASE for brochure. Price: $229.00." The add includes photographs of the
GG1 in both the green and red single strip PRR paint schemes.
On February 5, 1985 I send an SASE about this locomotive.
On February 18, 1985 I sent another letter indicating that I wanted
a Brunswick Green GG1 and I planned to pay 6 payments of $40.00 each. I also
stated that if the payment plan was satisfactory then I did not expect to
hear from him. I included the first payment.
Second payment of $40.00 made March 15, 1985.
Third payment of $40.00 made April 17, 1985.
Fourth payment of $40.00 made May 13, 1985.
Fifth payment of $80.00 made May 17, 1985. I don't remember what
happened, but I received some moneys that I had not expected and thus was
able to finish paying early.
On June 20, 1985 I sent a letter asking where is my GG1?
The locomotive arrived two weeks later with the front coupler broken
off at the shank. I glued it back together. The instructions say to
lubricate with a 10W oil.
Schematic drawing of the AC version done on August 15, 1985 in
Chester Connecticut. I remember disassembling her on the kitchen table.
On October 11, 1985 I wrote the A. D. Imfeld Co. and informed them
of the transit damage. I indicated that I felt the locomotive would have
shipped better disassembled I inquired about the paint because some was
flaking off the frame when received. I also indicated that the locomotive
seemed to grind when running.
On October 25th I received an answer from A.I. Imfeld. The black
paint is generally Testers. Some of the models were painted with Rustolium
gloss black. The grind he felt was due to the locomotive not being broken
in.
She is painted Brunswick Green in the simplified cats whisker
scheme. This has the single wide stripe rather than five narrow stripes.
It also has large PRR emblems rather than the 5 strip small. The wide
stripe scheme was the only scheme available. Catherine suggested green
paint rather then red, which was also available.

Observed in CT: Although she goes around AF curves, the body is mounted to
the top of the center two trucks. When she goes around a curve, the
pantographs swing wide: far wider than I build catenary for. Therefore I
have not converted her to run off of overhead.
This locomotive is a dog to put on the rails. She just has too many
wheels. Once on, she stays on as I don't take her off the track. Although
the prototype is 2-C+C-2, she is 2-A1A-A1A-2 with the middle wheel of the
A1A being of much smaller diameter.

July 1, 2000. Ever since American Models came out with their GG1, I have
wanted one. However, I haven't been able to justify the purchase while
owning the Imfeld version.
Today I was talking to Ron Papierz of Pope Imagineering at Trolley
Fest. He has wanted an Imfeld GG1 for years! He has an AM GG1 but it isn't
strong enough (or heavy enough) for the train he wants to haul.
I had taken Samantha with me in the morning to Trolley Fest. After
lunch at McDonald's play land, we went home and I got the GG1. It was just
what Ron wanted. He applied power and she ran. He offered $220.00 cash. I
counter offered $220.00 plus the Hoquat steeple cab shell he had along.
Before I would close the deal, I needed to know the price of an
American Models' GG1. I called home and Catherine informed me it was
$239.00. I promptly went back and sold him the GG1. The GG1 was then
placed under the front seat of his minivan where his wife did not see it.
The new shell is, of course, IATR 42.
}
Maintenance Log |
Converted to DC on August 15, 1985 by rewiring. The AF 4 position E-unit is
still in the locomotive as is the bridge rectifier. They now contribute
weight.

-----Original Message-----
From: jon solomon [mailto:trainlines@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 2:07 PM
To: thorin.marty@...
Subject: Re: Question for seller -- Item #1711511485


HI THORIN.I PUT THIS UP THINKING IT COULD ONLY BE AN AMERCAN MODELS GG-1
SINCE I WAS ONLY AWARE THAT ONLY THEY HAD MADE AN S GAUGE GG-1. NO
MANUFACTURER NAME WAS ON THE PIECE ANYWHERE.I WILL ADVISE THE BIDDERS.IS IT
MORE OR LESS VALUBLE THAN THE AM MODELS (WHICH HAD A RETAIL OF $310.)THANKS
JON WWW.JONSTRAINLINES.COM


>From: thorin.marty@...
>To: trainlines@...
>Subject: Question for seller -- Item #1711511485
>Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 06:26:55 PST
>
>Dear John:
> What you have here is the Imfield GG1. I sold mine about a year ago
>but I still have a great deal of documentation. Including when made, what
>paint is on it, original price, etc. It is from my database on my trains
>so if you want it, just ask.
> I assume you will also pass this on to whoever wins the auction.
>(This e-mail or the info I e-mail you.)
> But you have to ask!
>
>Thorin
>
>--------------------
>
>
>Question from: we9310
>Title of item: AMERICAN MODELS(NOT FLYER) S GAUGE GG-1 LN
>Seller: jonstrains
>Starts: Mar-06-02 11:32:12 PST
>Ends: Mar-13-02 11:32:12 PST
>Price: Currently $199.00
>To view the item, go to:
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1711511485
>
>
>
> Visit eBay, The World's Online Marketplace TM at http://www.ebay.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18153 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Re: Loading Platform
Chuck said:
>We have the 974 boxcar (I think that's the #), and yes, we do unload
>the boxes from the car onto the platform deck right after loading
>them from the ramp. (I usually explain the immediate unloading by
>attributing it to "missing shipping labels" or some other paperwork
glitch.)

How prototypical!!!

The list has had so much good info lately, I've been saving it again. Great
stuff!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18154 From: David Dewey Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Re: Truck Repairs
Ted,
It depends on how loose the sideframes are. If the just wiggle a little
bit, you can take a pair of needle nose pliers and tweak the two sheet metal
"fingers that run on the inside of the sideframes. You tweak them towards
the outside, and that can tighten up the sideframes. If the sideframes are
too loose to hang onto the sheet metal part, my favorite trick is to get
some ACG floor "pins" , drill the tab on the sheet metal part so the pin
just drops through, then place the sideframe on the tab and drill it just a
tad smaller than the pin. I think on that tender you can actually rotate the
truck to get room to do this, without removing the truck. I then push the
pin through the tab and into the sideframe, and voila! an almost invisible
repair, and it uses "factory parts!"
Other people believe in gluing the two pieces together, so there are
other options.
Don't forget to line up the truck after any sideframe repairs--axles
parallel and coupler too, sideframe should be parallel to each other also. I
always grab the tab and the sideframe together whenever making any
adjustments, so I don't strain that connection.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18155 From: David Dewey Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Boring layouts, Flyer Chat & a train show!
Hi all,
Well, off to run that "boring layout" at the Woodland Mall train show.
Show runs Sunday too, so might not make it back in time to Flyer Chat with
everyone--unless it's another marathon to 9PM PST chat!
If you haven't been to chat, be there, or be square! Lots-o-fun!
Sometimes we even talk about trains!
S'
David D.
PS On the search for an inexpensive bench-top milling machine, tired of
borrowing time on my friend's to do chassis work!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18156 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: power & putts
Hi guys,

I've been wondering why no one is producing an American Flyer compatible
power truck. If one were reasonably priced, I'd be building a lot more
trains. I'm not interested in shifting to DC (although that would open a lot
of possibilities to me). Being a westerner, I've seen Jess Bennett's
beautiful engines. He drives them through a power truck in the tender.

I wish I would have bid more when Ron Leventon sold that box of Casey Jones
chassis and motors. I'd be building all kinds of beasts with those.

Second, I can't find Putt Train's website. I'm very interested in their
version of the docksider and would love to see a picture of it. The link off
Paul's website won't load on my computer (a lot like chat on Sundays).

Jacques
Group: S-Trains Message: 18157 From: ron inscho Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: GG 1 's
There was annother GG 1 made at about the same time. It was made in Liberty
Ny. & was not nearly as good a runner as the Imfield eng. I did'nt mean to
be too critical about the Imfield eng. it is a piece of S gauge history &
shoul be treated as such. It's just that since American Models has a GG 1
that is a reliable running eng, I feel it to be the best one for the
operator's money.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18158 From: Roger Delthony Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Re: Reply- Track Cleaning
Dear Mr. Hinds,

My apologies to you for not getting back to you sooner. I had a similar
note ready to send to you Thursday night, but when I tried to send it I
got disconnected and lost the note.

You made some good points in your e-mail and I would like to respond to
them.

It appears that to remove heavier rust it takes repeated applications of
rust remover and hard abrasion. Unfortunately, I often find this type of
rusting on Flyer parts.

The bottle of Mr. Metal that I have contains 8 fl. oz. of material. Mr.
Metal is a thick white creamy liquid. It is much thicker than the Col.
Brassy that you sold me which is a fairly thin liquid. I have no idea
how much Mr. Metal is required to clean a square foot. That is somewhat
immaterial, as most corrosion that I find on train parts is only a
fraction of a square inch or so in area - at best several square inches
(there are 144 square inches to the square foot). I checked the bottles
of rust remover that I have, and over the past several years I have used
only an ounce or two out of a bottle. It just doesn't take much - in
many cases a wet Q-Tip on a rust spot. At this rate I think there will
still be quite a bit left in the bottle when they take me away to the
crematorium.

I can't speak to polishing silver or oxidation of aluminum. My interest
and I thought that of the S-Trains group was in removing rust from
American Flyer parts. Joe Deger in Greenberg's Guide to American Flyer S
Gauge Volume II says that Flyer rails are steel or nickel plated
(steel). I assume Joe knows of what he writes. All I know is that when I
put my magnet on track or other rusty Flyer parts, the magnet sticks to
them. If you mix steel with oxygen in the presence of moisture (water)
you can get oxidation (rust). That is what I am interested in removing
in the most expeditious and economical manner from Flyer parts.

By the way, as I checked further for writing this note, I found a bottle
of Rust Free by PMS Products. This is described as containing phosphoric
acid, and may be the material that removes blueing from steel if you
want to completely strip the blueing from a part prior to reblueing it.

In regard to the Wahl Clipper Oil, I'm sorry that I can't comment on
that. After my experience with the Col. Brassy, I decided not to even
try the oil.

Regards,

Roger Delthony





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18159 From: Don Thompson Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Re: SHS flex track
Dear Lance,
I guess you could try our hobby shop listing page that can be found at:
http://www.showcaseline.com/hobbyshop.html
John Prior pointed out to me that our "S-Helper Service PRR 155# Flex Track" was
nominated for the Model Railroaders "Readers Choice Awards 2001" in the "Innovation"
heading. Did anyone on the list nominate this product? We are all curious as we
did not.
Don


Lance McCold wrote:

> I need to buy a 24-piece box of SHS flex track. Does anyone have
> suggestions about where I could get it for the best price?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Lance McCold
> Knoxville

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 18160 From: John Foley Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: BL-2s and other things
Hi Folks

I just got off the phone with
Jeff Graeber of Greenbrair Models.
He is the fellow who did the brass
GP-30's. Jeff says they are finished.
He is donating the last couple to
the Pennsylvania Transportion
Museum and the Altoona Museum.

Other news he asked me to spread
Jeff is having 12 BL-2s custom built
painted Western Maryland. They with
have directional lighting and lettered
Only 12 are being done 6 Scale
6 Hirail. They should cost around $400.ea
Also he is planning on
having some Lehigh Valley models
custom built and some Pac Rail cars
custom Built and painted.
He Plans on having these items
the up coming S-Spree.

You can contact Jeff at

Greenbrair Models
P.O. 4021
Star City, WV. 26804-4021
Phone 304 599 2234

John Foley
Group: S-Trains Message: 18161 From: TED R LARSON Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: vehicle source
Here's a toy dealer that always has an interesting variety of current and
old toys, some of which are S scale.

Today I saw a variety of Mint Editions cars, many Nascar haulers, a
Tootsietoy Winnebago from the early '80's, a U-haul trailer, an old
plastic '56 Ford, many Matchbox and Hot Wheels including a very nice VW
van (original style). If there is something specific that you want him
to look for, tell him!

Gary Robbins
Store hours are Tuesday night and Saturday
585-223-8450
home 315-986-7764

Ted Larson
Newton's third law of technology:
For every benefit, there is an equal and opposite inconvenience.


________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18162 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Re: power & putts/Dick Karnes too.
Jacques,
Rebuilding, and customizing both new and used "S" gauge locos, and
rolling stock sure is what keeps interest alive in one's layout/ or
hobby. The Sn'S repower motors, can remake a battered, pile of parts into
a useful steam loco.
If we could have a power truck option for the diesel trucks we'd have it
all !!!! HOPE SOME ONE IS GIVING IT A TRY. Dick Karnes, if your reading
is there anything in the Mobley Library that might help rebuild, or
convert to scale AF power Trucks.???
To scale or hi-rail isn't inportant, -- mechanical constuction is what
might start something.
And DICK, BLESS YOU FOR OFFER THIS NASG REFERENCE SERVICE. I FOR ONE WILL
BE REQUESTING A FEW ITEMS, and gladly pay .50 a page for the items I deem
important enough for you to make an effort to search, copy and mail. HSJ
-- NASG member.

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 11:12:46 EST Jollivier4@... writes:
> Hi guys,
>
> I've been wondering why no one is producing an American Flyer
> compatible
> power truck. If one were reasonably priced, I'd be building a lot
> more
> trains. I'm not interested in shifting to DC (although that would
> open a lot
> of possibilities to me). Being a westerner, I've seen Jess
> Bennett's
> beautiful engines. He drives them through a power truck in the
> tender.
>

>
> Jacques
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18163 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: junker shells
If you contacted me about pictures please contact me again off list.I still
have a few shells left if anyone is interested.



Keith


_________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18164 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Re: Reply- Track Cleaning
If your bottle of Colonel Brassy Is a thin liquid then you
didn't shake the bottle as mentioned
on the instructions. I also used it without shaking it once
and that was a mistake. It needs a good shaking to mix the
contents that settles in the bottom. Colonel brassy is as
thick as
French salad dressing, when mixed, and is also a paste.
You do your self a disservice not trying the Wahl clipper
oil. Don't over do, or you will lose traction.




> The bottle of Mr. Metal that I have contains 8 fl. oz. of
> material. Mr. Metal is a thick white creamy liquid. It is
> much thicker than the Col. Brassy that you sold me which
> is a fairly thin liquid.
>
> In regard to the Wahl Clipper Oil, I'm sorry that I can't
> comment on that. After my experience with the Col. Brassy,
> I decided not to even try the oil.
>
> Regards,
>
> Roger Delthony
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18165 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Note to all
Just in case some are wondering about my expertise in American Flyer and model
railroading.

I got my first loco Brand new It was loco # 290. There that gives a clue to my
years of experience
without giving my age away. ;o}

I won a few first place awards at a NASG convention.

I have over 40 AF Gilbert locos along with lots of other stuff.
I fine tune them for the best performance.

But more importantly, the main reason for my collection. I acquired this along with
other
collections to set up a museum. This I have been doing since I was about 12 years
old.

It is extremely important to have excellent running equipment in a museum. Good
ole AC Gilbert :o) .

Which is why I use what I use on my track. The only track maintenance I have had to
do in the past 20 years minor cleaning at a switch every 5 years or more. Same with
cleaning wheels.

Anyone out there seen my Museum and care to comment on how my layout runs?

If you haven't seen my museum go to HTTP:// www.travel.to/cofa
Group: S-Trains Message: 18166 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Re: power & putts
--- Jollivier4@... wrote:
> Second, I can't find Putt Train's website.

Here's their website:
http://www.putttrains.com/

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18167 From: Arden Goehring Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [S-Trains] power & putts/Dick Karnes too.
Hi guys

Just to clarify the power designs of Jess Bennett. On the steam locomotives
he scratchbuilt, he puts the motor in the tender, runs a drive shaft from
there to the engine where the gear boxes, etc. are in the normal locations.
I have 3 of his engines. He taught me his techniques and I assisted in the
construction of some of them when I used to spend my summer vacations up
there. I'll be glad to answer further questions.

Arden
Group: S-Trains Message: 18168 From: Dennis Conway Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [S-Trains] power & putts/Dick Karnes too.
All,

There is company in Australia that makes a terrific
power truck called the "Black Beetle". They can make
any virtually scale and wheelbase version one might want.

The power trucks are self contained using various sizes
of Mashima 12V, 5-pole motors. They will run by
themselves on conventionally wired track.

They can also be wired in a variety of ways for other
traction uses, etc.

They are low profile, so they fit under a model's floor,
leaving the interior free for detailing, extra, etc.

No sideframes are included, but the truck units have
supports for adding them.

Custom assembled units from SEM sell for $75 Australian each
(right now, about $39.21 US)

Steam Era Models (SEM)
C/- P.O. Rhyll
Victoria 3923
Australia

You can contact them directly, or check out some of their
power trucks available from their representatives in the UK:

Branchlines
PO Box 31
Exeter EX4 6NY
England
tel/fax: [+44] (0)1392 437755
sales@...

It would be wonderful if an S scale company here could
get the US distributing for SEM. The S company would
also make a fair amount of extra money by selling the units
to all the US HO traction fellows.

How about it Tom at Pennsy Heritage, or you Bill Wade? <g>

Dennis Conway
Los Angeles
Group: S-Trains Message: 18169 From: Ross Roberts Date: 3/9/2002
Subject: Aircraft Display
Here are some pictures of a Toy Train Layout with several aircraft (approx 1:64) in flight.

www.msnusers.com/Railroading

click on Pictures in left column

click on "Toy Train Open House 2001"

There are 3 pages of pictures (click on down arrow to select page 2 or page 3)


The B-17G from American Models is a Lindberg kit and is dead on 1/64
scale with a length of 14 inches. Finding room on the layout for this
is going to be problem though, as it is pretty big.

Ross M Roberts



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18170 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 3/10/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [S-Trains] power & putts/Dick Karnes too.
Dick,
Thanks for the list of possiblities, I'll look them over and follow up
directly with you shortly. I had just ordered the NWSL catalog last week,
hoping to find something to work with. THANKS.

And Dennis, thanks to post the drawings and info on the "Black Beetle".
I'm sure I'll find a solution with such great assistance. HSJ ----
NASG member
Group: S-Trains Message: 18171 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 3/10/2002
Subject: Tender Shell
Greetings to all! Does anyone have an Atlantic type sheet metal tender
shell for a 290? Need 3 hole front (a 1 hole will work), with side and end
tabs, and no dents. Paint and lettering is not an issue. If anyone has one
and would be willing to "part" with it, please let me know. Thanks and best
wishes! Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 18172 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/10/2002
Subject: Personal web pages
Hi Guys,

I'd like to encourage everyone to create their own personal web page (it's real easy) to show off your home or modular layout if you haven't done so already. I show a very simple way to get started on my site at:

http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html

Regards,
Tim



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18173 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 3/10/2002
Subject: Lookout Junction
Lance McCold inquired:
Where could we see photos of the Rocky Mountain Hi-Railer's layout? I am sure it would be in inspiration.
>>>
Steve Blackburn responded with his recommendation to see our layout, Lookout Junction, on Volume I of his S-Gauge video series. In addition to that, Paul Yorke still has a photo page available on his website from the local 1999 NMRA show. I'm sorry to say that our club still doesn't have a website. Paul's page is located at:
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/rmhr/rmhr.html

Double-click on the photos to enlarge. (Lookout Junction has grown since those pix were taken, and also won "Best of Show" and "People's Choice" at the 2000 Pacific Northwest Region Conference of the NMRA.)

If you want to see hardcopy photos and a story about our layout, we were the cover story in the December 2001 issue of the NASG Dispatch. Thanks for your comments and your interest, Lance.

YourS,
John Eichmann, Coordinator
Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers
Boise
Group: S-Trains Message: 18174 From: gunrjoe@aol.com Date: 3/10/2002
Subject: Talking Station Record-How Long do they last??
Just bought my first talking station (Mystic Style) on e-bay. It is terrific,
works perfectly after some TLC. My question: I observe that a small amount of
record vinyl is visible on the end of the needle after each playing. I
realize that all of these old solid needle players probably wear out the
records.
1. How long does a original record last. (I realize that frequency etc.
affects this).
2. Should I save my original record (it has been used) for it's antique value
and but a new repro record to wear out.
3. Should I but a repro electronic module to play the sounds and save all?

I am strictly an operator but I do try to limit wear and the demise of
original equipment. Also, if there was a good article discussing this in any
publication I would appreciate a copy (I'll provide compensation for
copies/postage).
Thanks-Joe Craig


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18175 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/10/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, March 10, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains
Group: S-Trains Message: 18176 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 3/10/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Chat
You can remind...But every time I try to logon...."NOT A USER" or something
like that...Bob Conner
----- Original Message -----
From: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 5:02 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Reminder - Sunday Chat


>
> We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.
>
> Sunday Chat
>
> Date: Sunday, March 10, 2002
> Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)
>
> Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page
> http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains
>
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18177 From: Alex Date: 3/10/2002
Subject: Current Meter notes
Michael and the group:

Here are some quick thoughts on clamp-on ammeters and meters in general.

The Radio Snack #22-602 clamp-on ammeter looks fine for modelers.

Essentially, they're nothing more than transformers disguised as meters,
with one turn (the primary) being the train track rail or a wire, and the
"secondary" being a multi-turn winding inside the "clamp jaws" to step-up
the detected magnetic field. The voltage on the secondary winding feeds the
meter movement to give an indication of current.

As most of you know, you cannot use a transformer on DC, because you need
the relative motion of the expanding and collapsing AC-derived magnetic
field in order to induce a voltage from a primary winding to a secondary
winding. So, a clamp-on ammeter will only operate on AC. There are
Hall-effect clamp-on ammeters that work on DC, but that's another story.

I would think that the inexpensive Radio Schlock meter, on its lowest range,
would give you a basic idea of how much current is passing through a wire.
You cannot use it on a twisted pair; only one wire of a pair.

Also, note that a meter of this type has an accuracy specification. Radio
Shack doesn't say what that is, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that it
is probably 20-percent of full scale (FS).

That means that on the 3A range, for example, the actual possible current
error might be 20-percent of 3, or 0.6 Amperes. So, if the meter reads 3.0,
the current can actually be anywhere from as low as 2.4A to as high as 3.6A.
If the meter is 10 percent of FS accurate, for example (and again, Radio S.
doesn't tell you) the error could mean you're dealing with current that
could be 2.7A or as much as 3.3A.

At lower readings on the same 3A range, such as 1 A, for example, the same
FS error still applies. So, if the meter says 1A, and we assume a 10-percent
accuracy spec, the current could be anywhere from 0.7A to as much as 1.3A,
and your meter might indicate 1A. Is that acceptable? That's another
question.

I just thought you should know this before purchasing an inexpensive meter.
BTW: I used to work for Amprobe Instrument Co. many years ago. It made (and
still does) clamp-on ammeters.

== Alex in Kennebunk, Maine



-----Original Message-----
From: M.McConnell [mailto:mmcconn@...]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 8:59 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] RE: Current Meter


I looked up the meter Alan mentioned on Radio Shack's WEB site
(http://www.radioshack.com - enter the meter part number "22-602" in the
search box.)

The meter is an analog meter, not digital - and the meter will only check
AC current (the DC current range is only 150ma, too small to be of use for
trains). However, for $13 it would still be a useful tool for
troubleshooting.

Thanks Alan.
Michael


>Message: 25
> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:30:17 -0700
> From: Alan C Udy <nsupbnsf@...>
>Subject: Current Meter
>
>
>Radio Shack is currently running a sale on a current-probe equipped
>digital multi meter. The zero - three and zero to 15 ()also to 30)
>ranges will cover what we use in our Flyer equipment. I'll have to try
>it on S-Helper and American Models, with their lower current draw. Just
>clamp the probe around one of the wires to the track or transformer and
>observe what your current is. As Power = Volts X Amperes, you can see
>how close to the limit you are running your vintage transformers.
>
>
>Radio Shack #22-602, on sale for $12.99
>
>
>Alan Udy
>Idaho Falls, ID



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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Group: S-Trains Message: 18178 From: Bill Lane Date: 3/10/2002
Subject: Gus has a truck for sale
Hi All,

Many of you will remember the quality Texaco truck that my friend Gus built
for me. http://users.snip.net/~billlane/Texacotruck.jpg Well, here is your
chance to own a museum quality piece of S Scale history. The truck for sale
is a green White cab tractor and tanker trailer painted for Sinclair. It is
very similar to the Texaco truck shown here. The first $120.00 takes it
homes. Email augustominardi@... or call 856-582-2241 for more
information. Gus has burned out on trucks and will not be making any more!

Thanks
Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 18179 From: Roger Delthony Date: 3/10/2002
Subject: Track Cleaning
Dear Mr. Hinds,

After I saw your note on S-Trains yesterday, I went downstairs, took the
bottle of Col. Brassy, and held it upside down in front of a light bulb.
By so doing I could see that there is about 1/4 of the bottle of liquid
and about 1/2 the bottle as a solid plug in the bottom.

When I used the Col. Brassy before, I shook the bottle, but apparently
did not shake it 'well' as stated on the bottle.

This afternoon I shook the bottle vigorously for 15 minutes. After that
I still had a solid plug in the bottom and clear liquid in the top. I
guess I'm just not strong enough to shake the Col. Brassy. By way of
comparison, the Mr. Metal was a creamy liquid when I bought it about two
years ago, and is still a creamy liquid today.

Regards,

Roger Delthony
Group: S-Trains Message: 18180 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 3/10/2002
Subject: interesting item on ebay
Item 1712630834



Keith


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 18181 From: Jerry Hiett Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Don't feel like the Lone Ranger, I have the same problem, have never been able
to get on to the chat.

jerry

>You can remind...But every time I try to logon...."NOT A USER" or something

>like that...Bob Conner
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
>To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 5:02 PM
>Subject: [S-Trains] Reminder - Sunday Chat
>
>
>>
>> We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.
>>
>> Sunday Chat
>>
>> Date: Sunday, March 10, 2002
>> Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)
>>
>> Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page
>> http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>>
>> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
>s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>>
>>
>>
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>
>
>
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18182 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Re: Track Cleaning and paint
I suppose if you let anything go long enough with out use something negative
will happen. Did you remove the cover and use a stick to loosen things up?
I just went and got out an old bottle of Colonel Brassy (a year or more). This
one has never been used. My spare. Anyway, sure enough a lot of the material
settle to the bottom. The top was almost a clear liquid. Instead of shaking it I
removed the cover and shoved in a stick and gave it a stir. The bottom wasn't
solid, it had thickened to the consistency of mayonnaise. Anyway after a stir it was
back to
normal. This is a non toxic cleaner so there is no fear of contaminating yourself.
For those that don't use it regularly. You can put a 1/4" nut in the bottle to
help the
mix when shaking the bottle.
It is the same as using paint. You have to work a bit more to get the material
mixed
if you haven't used it for a long time. If the nozzle is plugged up shove a piece of
wire
(paper clip) in to open it.

As in all man made products. If it doesn't work, read the instructions.

A note to other people that did not purchase this product; I sold Colony
Brassy to Mr. Delthony a year ago. So it has been sitting quite a while without use,

or so it appears to me. I am trying to help him get it working again.
A fresh new bottle Shaken well with give no problem.
His Colonel Brassy should work after giving it a good stir.

I think you will find it will mix easily using a stick to get it started. I hope you
did not
let it freeze in the winter. It might not hurt it. I don't know, haven't tried it.
I hope you give it another try.

About mixing things in general. I have lots of paint. Modeling paint and house
paint.
If I haven't used the paint in a while, I shake it anyway, or just turn it upside
down. This
keeps the paint from going bad. When paint that has turned grainy, I thin it just
enough so I
can run it through a painters filter.
Another painters trick. Cut a piece of plastic to the inside diameter of the
container. Place on top of the paint. This keeps the air from getting to the paint
causing that think layer of dried out paint. For small bottles turn them upside down
now and then.

A very important note; Make sure the covers are tight. ;o}

Roger Hinds




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18183 From: Fire Wood Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Current Meter notes
Hi all,
Some of the "retro" appeal of AF to me is the
appearance of the equipment. I suggest we keep Radio
Shack out of the picture and see if we can still find
a mess of those nice, big, chunky black bakelite AVO
multimeters. A few of those arrayed beside the AF
controllers at the front of the layout would add to
the action, no? (On the other hand, it might begin to
resemble Frankenstein's laboratory.......) ;0)

Regards,
Dave W.

Murphy's Law 103: There are two kinds of dirt: the
light kind that sticks to dark objects; and the dark
kind that sticks to light objects.

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18184 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Re: Current Meter notes
Hi,

I also like the 1950's Flash Gordon look. If you notice on my train web page, I use four #8b transformers and four DPDT knife switches for DC polarity reversing. I think the knife switches add to the 'mad scientist' lab look. Maybe those gauges you mentioned would add to that look as well.

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Fire Wood
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 11:38 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Current Meter notes


Hi all,
Some of the "retro" appeal of AF to me is the
appearance of the equipment. I suggest we keep Radio
Shack out of the picture and see if we can still find
a mess of those nice, big, chunky black bakelite AVO
multimeters. A few of those arrayed beside the AF
controllers at the front of the layout would add to
the action, no? (On the other hand, it might begin to
resemble Frankenstein's laboratory.......) ;0)

Regards,
Dave W.

Murphy's Law 103: There are two kinds of dirt: the
light kind that sticks to dark objects; and the dark
kind that sticks to light objects.

__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18185 From: John DeFelice Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: milling machine
Have you tried Harbor Freight (harborfreight.com)?? They have a couple of milling machines advertised for $380.00 & $500.00.....They have some interesting tool & machines in their catalogs
Good luck...
John


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18186 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Is there any particular reason why the chat option here on the S-
Trains yahoo group isn't tied in with the chat option on S-Trains
yahoo club???
I've only been able to access the chat through the later.
When the club is changed over, will we start using this chat system?

Fred Rawling
Group: S-Trains Message: 18187 From: rblubaugh01 Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18188 From: Ted Larson Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Steam Depot
> Does any one have a e-mail address or a phone number to use to
> contact Steam Depot?
> If so contact me off line at: mjhtrains@...
> Thanks

Go To

http://www.s-scaletrains.com/

Scroll down to the Steam Depot button.


=====
Ted Larson

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Group: S-Trains Message: 18189 From: rblubaugh01 Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: control board
I have a lionel/american flyer alco, wabash loco. that the electronic
circuit board is bad. Does any one repair these, as I was told today
that Lionel doesn't service them anymore.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18190 From: rblubaugh01 Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: circuit boards
I have a lionel/american flyer wabash alco loco a unit. The reverse
unit circuit board is bad. Is there anyone that repairs these.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18191 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: American Flyer Repair Video
I'm sorry to have to reply to the people that were interested in us producing
a Flyer "how to" video that there have only been eleven responses to the
message below and that isn't anywhere close to the numbers we would need to
make a video pay for itself. It's been five days and I suspect that all the
replies we are going to receive, we have received.

Regards....Steve & Sam

Copy of message sent 3/6/02

Hi everybody,

I have had several requests via email and snail mail to produce a "How To"
video for repairing American Flyer Locos. I need input from all of you as to
the feasibility of doing so. Also if you do show a positive bent please tell
me what you would like to see most. If I can get 50 people to say they would
like such a video I will most probably do it. I'm not sending this to the
Scale side of S-Trains because why would they be interested? There are no
taboo subjects, so let's hear from you as to what you would like to see if
anything.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18192 From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Re: 3/16
A year ago someone suggested, and it was agreed by a number of us, that
March 16 (3/16) should be observed as S-scale Day. Does anyone have
anything special planned for the day this year?
Joe Pereira

email: sigma@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 18193 From: crustyfour Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Re: Milling machine..was Boring layouts...
David,

I have an Enco bench top milling machine that is ideal for light to
medium type work. It is made in the orient but works very well. It
is essentially the same as what is offered by Harbor Freight. If I
recall correctly it sells for about $1000. It is a well worthwhile
investment and compliments my old Altas 12x24 lathe wonderfully. It
would be fine for loco work.

Steve Blancard

--- In S-Trains@y..., "David Dewey" <djdewey@c...> wrote:
snip
> PS On the search for an inexpensive bench-top milling machine, tired
of
> borrowing time on my friend's to do chassis work!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18194 From: Fire Wood Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Mad Scientist meter notes.
Here's the meter:

http://www.museoelettrico.com/avometer_it.html

and the modern version, but same look....
http://www.avointl.com/products/multimeters/8mk7/8mk7.html
You should be able to find some old surplus ones. They
are dead accurate and still a respected instrument,
reading up to 2500v DC.
Maybe add a couple of "Jacob's ladder" electric arc
thingies on top for that extra effect.....Is this
getting on the Flyer fringe? ;0)
Regards,
Dave W.

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Group: S-Trains Message: 18195 From: Don Thompson Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Re: circuit boards
Several of our customers have used the #00290 AC/DC reverse unit with success to
repair the Lionel Flyer engines. These can be found at:
http://www.showcaseline.com/misc_in_stock.html

Don T.

rblubaugh01 wrote:

> I have a lionel/american flyer wabash alco loco a unit. The reverse
> unit circuit board is bad. Is there anyone that repairs these.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 18196 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer Repair Video
Guys,
Are you fixing the diesel power trucks ??? or just the steam locos ???
HSJ

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:30:30 EST boss31@... writes:
> I'm sorry to have to reply to the people that were interested in us
> producing
> a Flyer "how to" video that there have only been eleven responses to
> the
> message below and that isn't anywhere close to the numbers we would
> need to
> make a video pay for itself. It's been five days and I suspect that
> all the
> replies we are going to receive, we have received.
>
> Regards....Steve & Sam
>
> Copy of message sent 3/6/02
>
> Hi everybody,
>
> I have had several requests via email and snail mail to produce a
> "How To"
> video for repairing American Flyer Locos. I need input from all of
> you as to
> the feasibility of doing so. Also if you do show a positive bent
> please tell
> me what you would like to see most. If I can get 50 people to say
> they would
> like such a video I will most probably do it. I'm not sending this
> to the
> Scale side of S-Trains because why would they be interested? There
> are no
> taboo subjects, so let's hear from you as to what you would like to
> see if
> anything.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18197 From: Roger Delthony Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Track Cleaning
Dear Mr. Hinds,

Thank you for your advice about the Col. Brassy. The bottle has been in
my workshop since I bought it from you. The shop temperature is 65'F in
the winter and a little warmer in the summer. I guess my problem with
the Col.Brassy was that I read and followed the instructions which said
"Shake Bottle Well!!"

This time I used a steel rod to break up the set-up solids in the bottle
which were like a brick (a wooden stick would have broken). After about
5-10 minutes of chipping, jabbing, and scraping the material in the
bottle I was able to break up the solid plug and get it into a
consistency that could be stirred. After stirring for a while, I now
have a bottle of creamy white liquid. Apparently this is how it was
supposed to have been when I bought it.

You might want to tell The Colonel that the instructions should be
changed to read contents "should be stirred rather than shaken." Thank
goodness this is done and we can put it behind us. I only wish that I
knew two years ago what I know now. C'est la vie.

Regards,

Roger Delthony
Group: S-Trains Message: 18198 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Manheim Machine & Tool Company Status
I had a telephone conversion with Merlin's wife this morning and the news is not good.

Without going into a lot of detail, I would like to pass on what the young lady explained to me.

Merlin came very close to passing on. He has improved but the long term status is very uncertain. At present she is trying to handle the affairs of the company and maintain some form of family life.This tragedy had no apparent warning so there is a lot of stress in the family.

The production of Downs tank cars, Ace trucks, freight car loads,etc., and the various subcontract work they performed for other manufacturers has essentially stopped.

The company is up for sale. She intends to vacate the building and either sell the company or carry on the commercial end of the manufacturing in another location in the future. Without Merlin's technical expertise, no precision maching is possible at this time.
I got the impression that it would be best for both the product lines and the family, if the train business were purchased by someone who can keep it going. The machine shop appears to be going on the block although it would probably be available if someone wanted to assume that function also.

If someone wants to get into a business that has been around for ages, here is a golden opportunity to do so and help out the family at the same time. If not, there is going to be a lot of small American manufacturers who will be hard pressed to find a way to duplicate Merlin's roll in various businesses. Just to clarify that comment- the scale wheels for the Trainmaster were part of his backlog along with several other key components for other manufacturers both in the model train industry and the REAL world..

That's a summation of my understanding of the situation. Mrs. Becker is showing tremendous internal strength through this, but there is going to be a rough road ahead for the family. Please keep them in your thoughts and prayers.

If you are seriously interested in this business, Mrs. Becker may be contacted at 717-627-3980 . I believe she requested that mornings would be best.

Do not contact me as I can not give you any further insite.

Tom Doherty
Pennsylvania Heritage Models, Ltd.
http://www.paheritagemodels.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18199 From: Lance McCold Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Radio Shack current meter comments
I went to the Radio Shack site as Michael suggested. I clicked on the "more
information" button. There was a list of three items. I picked the second
because it mentioned "technical documents." Then I clicked owners manual.
that brought up a PDF file.

The owners manual says AC measurements are +/- 4% of full scale. So for the
3A scale the measurements are +/- 0.12A. This accuracy is probably more
than good enough for most tests we would do on our toy trains. Actually it
probably works out more accurate than this in most cases. If you zero the
meter and measure 0.1A, the error will probably be less than 10% of the
reading, that is 0.1 A +/- less than 0.01A. Most of the readings we would
get with Flyer engines would be in the range of 1 to 3 A. I think plus or
minus 0.12A will be plenty accurate for our purposes.

I have not seen this meter, but I think I am going to have to go to Radio
Shack to check it out.

Lance McCold
Knoxville, Tennessee

>Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:49:10 -0500
> From: "Alex" <alexmm@...>
>Subject: Current Meter notes
>
>Michael and the group:
>
>Here are some quick thoughts on clamp-on ammeters and meters in general.
>
>The Radio Snack #22-602 clamp-on ammeter looks fine for modelers.
>
>Essentially, they're nothing more than transformers disguised as meters,
>with one turn (the primary) being the train track rail or a wire, and the
>"secondary" being a multi-turn winding inside the "clamp jaws" to step-up
>the detected magnetic field. The voltage on the secondary winding feeds the
>meter movement to give an indication of current.
>
>As most of you know, you cannot use a transformer on DC, because you need
>the relative motion of the expanding and collapsing AC-derived magnetic
>field in order to induce a voltage from a primary winding to a secondary
>winding. So, a clamp-on ammeter will only operate on AC. There are
>Hall-effect clamp-on ammeters that work on DC, but that's another story.
>
>I would think that the inexpensive Radio Schlock meter, on its lowest range,
>would give you a basic idea of how much current is passing through a wire.
>You cannot use it on a twisted pair; only one wire of a pair.
>
>Also, note that a meter of this type has an accuracy specification. Radio
>Shack doesn't say what that is, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that it
>is probably 20-percent of full scale (FS).
>
>That means that on the 3A range, for example, the actual possible current
>error might be 20-percent of 3, or 0.6 Amperes. So, if the meter reads 3.0,
>the current can actually be anywhere from as low as 2.4A to as high as 3.6A.
>If the meter is 10 percent of FS accurate, for example (and again, Radio S.
>doesn't tell you) the error could mean you're dealing with current that
>could be 2.7A or as much as 3.3A.
>
>At lower readings on the same 3A range, such as 1 A, for example, the same
>FS error still applies. So, if the meter says 1A, and we assume a 10-percent
>accuracy spec, the current could be anywhere from 0.7A to as much as 1.3A,
>and your meter might indicate 1A. Is that acceptable? That's another
>question.
>
>I just thought you should know this before purchasing an inexpensive meter.
>BTW: I used to work for Amprobe Instrument Co. many years ago. It made (and
>still does) clamp-on ammeters.
>
>== Alex in Kennebunk, Maine
Group: S-Trains Message: 18200 From: TCS Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Fw: Yahoo! Groups Downtime Fri 03/15/01 9PM PST (GMT-8)
> Here we go again folks!!!!
>
> TCS
>
> > Plan accordingly, please.
> >
> >
> > > Dear Yahoo! Groups Members,
> > >
> > > The Yahoo! Groups service will be down for scheduled maintenance
> > > Friday, March 15, 9:00 PM PST (GMT-8) as we move our servers to a
> new
> > > facility. We expect the service to be restored the morning of
Sunday
> > > March 17.
> > >
> > > During this time the web site will be unavailable and email will
not
> > > be delivered. (Some users may experience email non-delivery
notices
> > > while the service is down, but all email should be delivered once
> > > service is resumed.) Please note: once the service is restored,
> there
> > > will be email delays due to backlog. We expect these delays to
last
> > > no longer than 1 day. Please do not re-send email to your group as
> > > this will only add to delays.
> > >
> > > We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.
> > >
> > >
> > > The Yahoo! Groups
> > Team
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18201 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/11/2002
Subject: Freedom Train
Does anyone here know if someone is making a GS4 in either daylight or
freedom train colors in S gauge? Just saw the k-line stuff and
started to drool...

Fred
Group: S-Trains Message: 18202 From: Gill W. Lott Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Yahoo! Groups Downtime Fri 03/15/01 9PM PST (GMT-8)
So in honor of 3/16 we don't have a site!!!????

>>> "TCS" <oddballdecal@...> 3/11/02 10:59:07 PM >>>


> Here we go again folks!!!!
>
> TCS
>
> > Plan accordingly, please.
> >
> >
> > > Dear Yahoo! Groups Members,
> > >
> > > The Yahoo! Groups service will be down for scheduled maintenance
> > > Friday, March 15, 9:00 PM PST (GMT-8) as we move our servers to a
> new
> > > facility. We expect the service to be restored the morning of
Sunday
> > > March 17.
> > >
> > > During this time the web site will be unavailable and email will
not
> > > be delivered. (Some users may experience email non-delivery
notices
> > > while the service is down, but all email should be delivered once
> > > service is resumed.) Please note: once the service is restored,
> there
> > > will be email delays due to backlog. We expect these delays to
last
> > > no longer than 1 day. Please do not re-send email to your group as
> > > this will only add to delays.
> > >
> > > We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.
> > >
> > >
> > > The Yahoo! Groups
> > Team
>


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All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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Group: S-Trains Message: 18203 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: International S-Gauge Day
Joe Pereira asked:
A year ago someone suggested, and it was agreed by a number of us, that March 16 (3/16) should be observed as S-scale Day. Does anyone have anything special planned for the day this year?
>>>
Yes, Joe, the Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers will be spending the day together in honor of National (actually, International, I guess) S-Gauge Day--that's the way the headline reads in our March newsletter. We're assembling Lookout Junction on Friday evening, then hitting it again at 9 a.m. on 3/16. This is our final tune-up prior to our show at the Boise Depot on April 20-21. We're finishing our fourth track loop on the upper level and installing the roundhouse and turntable, then testing out our new Gabe, Sawmill, and "Searboard" Coaler. We're going to heed Lance McCold's advice and use mini M&Ms for the Coaler, which are mined at the Big Rock Candy Mountain.

YourS,
John Eichmann
RMHR
Boise
Group: S-Trains Message: 18204 From: Robert Wight Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: #40 Nichrome Wire
Does anyone have a source to purchase #40 nichrome Heating wire? Also what
does the #40 mean? When I did a search for nichrome wire I get many things
but not a #40 or a supplier. Thanks
Bob Wight


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Group: S-Trains Message: 18205 From: Robert Wight Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: nichrome followup
In Barkers book he said that the #40 nichrome has 70 ohms per foot. Now i
found a Nichrome 60 at 40 gauge that has a resistance of 70 ohms per foot.
Does anyone know if this would work on the smokers? Thanks.
Bob Wight



_________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18206 From: imsscott Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Re: nichrome followup
--- In S-Trains@y..., "Robert Wight" <blueearthbob@h...> wrote:
> In Barkers book he said that the #40 nichrome has 70 ohms per foot.
> Now i found a Nichrome 60 at 40 gauge that has a resistance of 70
> ohms per foot. Does anyone know if this would work on the smokers?

Yes, this will work. Barker was referring to the gauge of the wire or
AWG when he said #40. Most nichrome wire is 60 or 80 which has to do
with the ratio of Nickel content to Chromium content, with 60 being
the percentage that is Nickel. The electrical properties of these are
very similar with the higher number showing slightly more resistance,
so all could be used. There is a 40, but according to one chart I saw
it's a little less than 70 Ohms for 1 foot. The best choice would
probably be the 60 in a 40 gauge, like you found.

A web site that claims to offer these in small amounts for hobbyists
is:
http://www.resistancewire.com/mainpage.html

By the way if you send Tom a self addressed stamped envelope he will
send you a free piece of nichrome wire. Details are at his web site:
http://www.rit.edu/~tbbeqa/GAF.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 18207 From: imsscott Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Re: control board
--- In S-Trains@y..., "rblubaugh01" <RBlubaugh01@s...> wrote:
> I have a lionel/american flyer alco, wabash loco. that the
electronic circuit board is bad. Does any one repair these, as I was
told today that Lionel doesn't service them anymore.

All the LTI/AF products come with a list of approved service
stations. Have you tried contacting any of these? I would think that
they have to offer some sort of repair option, especially for new
engines that are still under warranty.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18208 From: Rhett T. George Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: St. Gilbert's Day
- Greeting`S' -

With grateful heart I thank Chris Zizzo for making the time three years
ago to inform us of St. Gilbert's Day.

This Saturday the good wife and I shall enjoy an outing that A. C. himself
would approve of. A few of you met Joanna last November at Wayne Beachy's
Monster Modular Meet in Richmond. She was sitting on the floor Friday
evening with soldering iron and pliers making electrical repairs to some
of the modules and accessories.

We are both amateur radio operators who enjoy public service events. On
Saturday the XYL and I shall assist in communications at the district com-
petition of "Odyssey of the Mind." A good deal of the day will be spent
with 7 to 15 year old youth who have bright and energetic minds. Hey,
this sounds a bit like a modular layout train show.

May you, too, have a great St. Gilbert's Day.

Cheer`S'
Rhett - KE4HIH
[Joanna - KE4QOZ]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18209 From: Thomas Stoltz Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: relocating
Train Gang,

I would like to thank all the kind people who have responded to my questions about temporarily relocating. New Orleans is where I am headed and I hope to be joining the Crescent City S-Gaugers soon.

I will be unsubscribing from the list today until such time that I can get back on line. My mailing address remains the same for the orders that I have out there.

Thanks again for all the input.

Happy rails to you,

Tom


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18210 From: Robert Wight Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Nichrome question explained
Hi folks; I better explain my question on the Nichrome wire question. A few
people think im being cheap. I even receicved a letter from the president if
cheap.HaHa. What im doing is experimenting with the wire to manufacture
myself small smoking units for my houses. I dont want to waist my smoke
rewind kits on this experimentation. Honestly , ask Joe's train repair there
was a smoke replacment kit in this last order. But my problem has been
solved. I found a place to get 100 feet and it was indeed the Nichrome 60
at 40 gauge is the right stuff. I figure im going to use alot of wire trying
to get the effect of the smoking buildings i want. me and kathy has a small
Ceramic business so i have the material to make this unit to fit my perpose.
I hope this helped.
Thanks for the answers i received they did help.
yours in model railroading
Bob Wight

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Group: S-Trains Message: 18211 From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: K Line track
Never asked before because I didn't need to know, but does K Line
Flyer-type track come in curves of more than one radius?
Joe Pereira
email: sigma@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 18212 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Re: International S-Gauge Day
I remember in the seventies that Nov. 20 was declared something that has to do with
model railroading. Can't exactly remember what.
Any one remember what it be. Actually I think Nov. was declared Model RR month.

Yes No ????

Roger Hinds

JOHN EICHMANN wrote:

> Joe Pereira asked:
> A year ago someone suggested, and it was agreed by a number of us, that March 16 (3/16) should be observed as S-scale Day. Does anyone have anything special planned for the day this year?
> >>>
> Yes, Joe, the Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers will be spending the day together in honor of National (actually, International, I guess) S-Gauge Day--that's the way the headline reads in our March newsletter. We're assembling Lookout Junction on Friday evening, then hitting it again at 9 a.m. on 3/16. This is our final tune-up prior to our show at the Boise Depot on April 20-21. We're finishing our fourth track loop on the upper level and installing the roundhouse and turntable, then testing out our new Gabe, Sawmill, and "Searboard" Coaler. We're going to heed Lance McCold's advice and use mini M&Ms for the Coaler, which are mined at the Big Rock Candy Mountain.
>
> YourS,
> John Eichmann
> RMHR
> Boise
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18213 From: gino restivo Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: k-line curve track
k-line only makes 54" curve trk for A.F. trains
if you need something else , gargraves has
30" ( ? )straight that can be bent althought not
too easily
anyone have suggestions on other track ?
have fun , gino


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18214 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Re: K Line track
K-line only makes the one wide radius Flyer track.

However, there was an ad in the Nov/Dec 2001 S-Gaugian for a place that
offers original Flyer track bent into 10 different radii. The name is
Track Fun. The order number is 866-233-3840 and at the prompt enter
5840. I just spoke to him. He said he's still in business and that he
was starting to get some calls recently, having been a little
discouraged at the lack of initial response. I told him I was going to
post his number to our list again. So if you need to make some
alternate curves in Flyer track, give 'em a call!

sigma@... wrote:
> Never asked before because I didn't need to know, but does K Line
> Flyer-type track come in curves of more than one radius?
> Joe Pereira
> email:
> sigma@...
>


__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18215 From: Jim Carnes Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Searching for SHS boxcars
I am looking for the SHS 40' Steel "Rebuilt" Box Cars - stock numbers #00153 and #00125. These are the Chesapeake & Ohio roadname cars. Both are listed as sold out on the SHS website and the dealers I usually buy from don't have any. Does anyone know where there may be some available? New or used are fine.

All suggestions welcome. Thanks.

Jim
Group: S-Trains Message: 18216 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: MISSING PERSON
Hi Rance Velapoldi Can you contact me off list Mike S anormal1@...
Thank You
Group: S-Trains Message: 18217 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Denis Conway ou said it all
I joined the on3 yahoo.group to see what they are
doing. Hell they use HO track and are happy as hell.
We bitch and bitch over AF. I am looking at a 312 I
just bought for $125. Now that was S Scale in 1946
not 2002. It is just old S scale. The couplers and
tin plate tender trucks are it's weakest link. I
guess Bachman never did get to buy AF, so the went
right around Lionel. They used there HO track with
detailed engines at a low price and created a market
based on detail. See what the could have done if they
bought AF. That is why I will not buy Lionel Flyer.
They keep killing us by holding on to us. To hell
with them, we do not need them. Let it go. They
killed the AF name.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18218 From: lraymer42420 Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Help me Please !
I am new to all of this S train stuff however, a friend has wound up
with a bunch of it and I am trying to get it all in working order for
him. The question is this, is there a place where one can find parts
for the AF line? We (he) has many engines and just about all of them
need nothing other than a little contact work and cleaning from
sitting for 40 or 50 years. I am now working on a Tender that has
smoke and I need a part for the motor and it's good to go. Any help
anyone can offer would be a GREAT! Thank you all for any information
you can provide.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18219 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Tender Shell
Greetings! Does anyone in the group have a sheet metal Atlantic tender
shell they would be willing to part with? I need one that has the side
tabs, and no large dents. Paint and lettering or a little rust does not
matter. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. Best wishes,
Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 18220 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Re: Help me Please !
Hi,

Check Paul Yorke's web site. He has links to Flyer parts dealers. His site is at:

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: lraymer42420
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 9:08 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Help me Please !


I am new to all of this S train stuff however, a friend has wound up
with a bunch of it and I am trying to get it all in working order for
him. The question is this, is there a place where one can find parts
for the AF line? We (he) has many engines and just about all of them
need nothing other than a little contact work and cleaning from
sitting for 40 or 50 years. I am now working on a Tender that has
smoke and I need a part for the motor and it's good to go. Any help
anyone can offer would be a GREAT! Thank you all for any information
you can provide.


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18221 From: John L. Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Diesel Horn Activation
Just purchased a Flyonel EP5 with a diesel horn sound in it. It requires
a Lionel horn activation button - cant seem to find one. Does anyone
have a circuit diagram and a parts list for one of these buttons, or
have a circuit that could be wired up to make it work - I know it
contains a diode and a only a couple of other parts. Id like to try home
brewing one.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18222 From: judgeatkck Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: L&N Boxcar 24066
I recently purchased and L&N Boxcar, after searching the various
American Flyer websites I don't find much about this car. Is it
considered desirable and what is the current value. Was it available
individually or only in a set.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18223 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Yahoo! Groups Downtime Fri 03/15/01 9PM PST
"Gill W. Lott" wrote:

>So in honor of 3/16 we don't have a site!!!????

So it would seem. In fact, I'm kinda wondering what Yahoo's version
of egroups will look like when it DOES return. I see, as of tonight
(3/12/02) that we have gone from having a big fat ad in every other
message with a detour to a full ad every third message, to having TWO
big fat ads in EVERY STINKIN' MESSAGE plus the usual detour. Looks as
though Yahoo is softening us up for switching over to a pay-for-it
type "service" as an alternative to highly obnoxious ad formatting.
If that happens I'm outta here.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18224 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Re: Diesel Horn Activation
You're in luck- I have one and will send it off this list, which doesn't
like attachments

"John L." wrote:
>
> Just purchased a Flyonel EP5 with a diesel horn sound in it. It requires
> a Lionel horn activation button - cant seem to find one. Does anyone
> have a circuit diagram and a parts list for one of these buttons, or
> have a circuit that could be wired up to make it work - I know it
> contains a diode and a only a couple of other parts. Id like to try home
> brewing one.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18225 From: ron inscho Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Re: L&N Boxcar 24066
this car was produced in 1960 there were 2 versions # 1 is painted on a
black plastic body price is around $200 # 2 is painted on a white plastic
body price is around $250 Both are some what rare & hard to find. At the
time these were made it was most likely sold both ways.
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18226 From: ron inscho Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Re: K Line track other radius track
I recently purchased a track bending / unbending jig for flyer track .It
will take standard radius Gilbert curved track & change it to 28",42",54"&
72" Radius . So far it works great It cost $49.95 & was purchased from
Van's trains box 1365 Fairlawn NJ. 07410 phone 201-797-3116
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18227 From: ron inscho Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Fw:
----- Original Message -----
From: "ron inscho" <ronnat@...


>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18229 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Caig list
OK Boys, That's it. The bidding is closed!

I've got 35 names who want 36 cans (tins, bottles, jars, packages, tubes,
WHAT--EVER!).
That's the third case, done. No more sign ups past what you see below.
Everyone who has written up to now is included.

Here are the names. If you are on this list but have not sent your money,
please do so right away so we can go ahead and finish this order.

I have already received a bunch of checks, deposited them, then went out and
bought a new car. (That's all true. See how misleading statistics can be?)

Mike Berger *
Steve Blackburn *
Tim Brown *
Clay Buckage (X2)
Gary Chidester
John Conant
David Dewey
Art Goodell *
Jim Grimes *
Bob Guckian *
John Himmelberger
Paul Husby
Bob Kimball
James C. Knight *
Thorin Marty
Jay Mellon
Lance McCold *
Mike Newcomer *
Sam J. Pellegrino *
Larry Piro
Paul Policarpo *
Dick Purnell *
Jack Riely
Russ Sanford
Mike Strickland *
Howard Sheffield
Alex Sibbald *
Eugene Steffan *
Tom Stoltz *
G. Leigh Swanson *
Steve Terni
Bill Trefts
Rance Velapoldi *
Ted Walton
Chris Zizzo *

An asterisk (*) means I have received your check by today 3/12/02.

Nobody told me this would be so much work!!!

CZ
Group: S-Trains Message: 18230 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Yahooooooooooooo!!!
The Yahoo! Groups service will be down for scheduled maintenance from
Friday, March 15, 5:00am GMT, till late morning Sunday, March 17, while We
are moving our servers to a new facility.

During this time, the web site will be unavailable. Email sent to your group
will be queued and delivered when the service is back up. There will be some
delay while the system catches up with the email backlog.

That's what they say.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18231 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: Re: K Line track
Joe Pereira wrote:

>does K Line Flyer-type track come in curves of more than one radius?

Initially, K Line made curved sectional track in both 19" and 27"
(wide) radii. The 27" seems to be easier to find now, though. AFAIK,
K line ceased to make any S gauge track a few years ago, but it can
still be found at some So. Cal. train shops.

BTW, K Line rail is not as well-formed as Gilbert. K Line uses the
same rail center separation, but their rail has a slightly
wider rail head than Gilbert, especially where the rail has been
crimped to hold the pins. The resulting gauge is a bit shy of 7/8".
It doesn't bother AF and SHS equipment, but I have seen several of my
AM hi-rail diesels climb their flanges slightly while negotiating K
Line track. The problem was eliminated by tweaking the wheel gauge a
little.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18232 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 3/12/2002
Subject: interesting item on ebay 375???
Is it real or not?Item # 1713144079


Keith


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 18233 From: roy inman Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: K Line track
Chuck,
If you are saying that K-Line doesn't make S gauge track any longer, I think
that is not correct. In the current catalog, 2002 first edition, they list
three flavors of S gauge track: 54" wide curve track for $3.45 each, a
regular 10" straight for same price and a 30" extra long for $9.45.
At least that is what is in the catalog. And we all know, sometimes what is
cataloged is not produced :)
And just BTW, I notice that in the same catalog, several photos show what is
apparently S gauge track (two rail anyway) as part of the scene. Looks more
realistic, at least.
Regards,
Roy Inman

> From: "jahoozdumm" <eighthmile@...>
> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 05:54:40 -0000
> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [S-Trains] Re: K Line track
>
> K line ceased to make any S gauge track a few years ago, but it can
> still be found at some So. Cal. train shops.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18234 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: St. Gilbert's Day
Gill W. Lott bemoans:
>So in honor of 3/16 we don't have a site!!!????

It's OK Gill. We'll all be up in New Haven anyway. The pilgrimage this
year will be a big one, with Flyer fans from all over the world "Flying" in
to our Mecca. (You're coming, aren't you Rance?)

The parade kicks off at 8 AM right in front of the big Yale auditorium and
makes it's way all the way up to the old factory, then across the highway,
ending at the museum. It takes all day. We've only got one of the "Kids at
the Crossing Gate" left (the younger one.) I hope he has the strength to
make the whole parade. (He just sits in the limo and waves.)

I understand that the original group known as the LGE (Last Gilbert
Employees) have quite a float planned. You may remember last years Santa Fe
ALCo ABA that was made with a Kenworth sleeper cab pulling a double bottom.
It was fantastic! This year, they promise a steam engine cutaway with
drivers, side rods, a huge smoke unit puffing and choo-choo-ing. It will be
interesting to hear if a full scale Gilbert choo-choo piston sounds like a
real steam engine!

Well, I'm going! I'll be wearing the blue and the yellow and bringing lots
of cigars (everybody has to smoke!) and putting a little cedar oil behind my
ears for good luck. There're always plenty of pretty girls, so I'll bring
my Erector set. (Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.) With a touch of the old Mysto
Magic, we might have some Chemistry! :-)

For those who cannot attend, I'll file a report as soon as I get home and
sleep off the nicotine.
For the rest of you, see you in Erector Square!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18235 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Nichrome question explained
Bob Wight said:
>Hi folks; I better explain my question on the Nichrome wire question. A few
>people think I'm being cheap. I even received a letter from the President
of
>Cheap.

Dave Dewey wrote you, Bob?
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18236 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Lionel won't service Flyer?
--- rblubaugh01 <RBlubaugh01@...> wrote:
> I gave my flyer alco to an approved service station, and he reported
> that Lionel does not have replacement boards and not return it to
> Lionel for repair.

The next time somebody gets a chance to interview or ask questions of
the Lionel president they should ask why anyone should buy the Lionel
Flyer if Lionel isn't going to service them after the warranty has
expired?

What do they do about new engines that are still under warranty; just
replace them?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18237 From: David Dewey Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Nichrome question explained
Hey, I resemble that remark!!
:-)
S'
David "El CHEAP!o" Dewey
Group: S-Trains Message: 18238 From: David Dewey Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: St. Gilbert's Day
NURSE!!
Meds in Chris Z's room, STAT!
;-)
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18239 From: ron inscho Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel won't service Flyer?
That is where all of the busted & pieces missing junk that was sold at the
auction came from. They would'nt / could'nt repair them then & the tradition
continues. Good BY to Lionel!! Who needs them ? As for Mr. Blubaugh I would
just eliminate the electronic e unit & wire the motors direct & run it on D
C as it will run much better.

>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18240 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: St. Gilbert's Day
Chris,

You may be able to use that Erector Set and do a couple pole vaults just like ol' AC.

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Zizzo
To: slist
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 9:32 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] St. Gilbert's Day


Gill W. Lott bemoans:
>So in honor of 3/16 we don't have a site!!!????

It's OK Gill. We'll all be up in New Haven anyway. The pilgrimage this
year will be a big one, with Flyer fans from all over the world "Flying" in
to our Mecca. (You're coming, aren't you Rance?)

The parade kicks off at 8 AM right in front of the big Yale auditorium and
makes it's way all the way up to the old factory, then across the highway,
ending at the museum. It takes all day. We've only got one of the "Kids at
the Crossing Gate" left (the younger one.) I hope he has the strength to
make the whole parade. (He just sits in the limo and waves.)

I understand that the original group known as the LGE (Last Gilbert
Employees) have quite a float planned. You may remember last years Santa Fe
ALCo ABA that was made with a Kenworth sleeper cab pulling a double bottom.
It was fantastic! This year, they promise a steam engine cutaway with
drivers, side rods, a huge smoke unit puffing and choo-choo-ing. It will be
interesting to hear if a full scale Gilbert choo-choo piston sounds like a
real steam engine!

Well, I'm going! I'll be wearing the blue and the yellow and bringing lots
of cigars (everybody has to smoke!) and putting a little cedar oil behind my
ears for good luck. There're always plenty of pretty girls, so I'll bring
my Erector set. (Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.) With a touch of the old Mysto
Magic, we might have some Chemistry! :-)

For those who cannot attend, I'll file a report as soon as I get home and
sleep off the nicotine.
For the rest of you, see you in Erector Square!

Chris Zizzo



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18241 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Nice car on e-Bay
OK, for those of you who skip e-Bay posts, you'll just miss out!

I bought a car on e-Bay. Not a $39.99 hopper car. A car. A 2001 PT
Cruiser. Actually, I never bid. He started it at 19,500. No bids at that
price. I e-mailed him and after some haggling, got the car for $18,750,
stopping the auction. Thanks to all of you for sending me money. Keep
those checks coming!

(See the pix at
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1079096078 )

The Cruiser was in Ohio. I'm in NY. I flew out to get it and drove it
home. Yesterday.

If you buy a new car, driving it 671 miles right away is a good way to get
acquainted. I'm in love. Anyway, all of this is just a preamble to what I
was really writing about.

I had, in the back of my mind, a desire to stop in Altoona and see the
horseshoe curve. I had no map and was barrelling east on 70 (PA Pike)
gauging my gas needs. I figured to stop at the next exit for a fill up.
Hello, a sign; Bedford: Gas and Route 99 to . . . Altoona!

99 is a North-South super-highway parallelling PA220, which it replaces.
Sometimes it shares the route number with it. Altoona is 35 miles north of
the PA Pike. You take the 17th. Street exit and follow the signs to the
Railroaders Museum. There they sell combo tickets for the displays and the
curve which is 5 miles away. The curve is closed now to visitors, though it
will be open when we go out for NASG. You can stand on the road below and
look up at the tracks. It looks bigger in the photographs than in real
life. More impressive is what the Altoona municipality has built in terms
of water control projects. You drive through all of that on the way up,
including going through a horseshoe curve of your own as the road doubles
back in the same fashion as the railroad.

The K-4 Pacific that used to pose on the curve has been replaced by a Geep.
Anyone at the last NASG who took the Steamtown tour saw the Pacific in the
middle of some boiler work. It'll be at least a year before she gets lit
up.

The museum in town, sitting next to the NS mainline, is a real beauty. I
didn't spend a lot of time, but I will return in the Summer. Outside, on
the tracks, it is an S gauge display in prototype. (Funny way to put that.)
A fluted Budd car, a crane that had to be a model of Gilbert's "Bucyrus
Erie", a five stripe tuscan GG-1, (not looking as good as my AM), a wood
reefer (which they were selling, for $39.99, and the hatches really open),
an REA Express car, a smooth sided diner w/ kitchen, an SW-9 from a
regional road, a passenger car completely wrapped in tarps and two more
smoothies, one of which, a boattail observation with a Keystone drumhead,
tore my heart out. It was so rusted out, the curved glass cracked and
discolored, duct tape over the holes in the roof. It was disheartening to
see it so lame. In another section that was outside the museum grounds and
in the NS repair yards, was a coal tender that looked to be the prototype of
that tinny metal Flyer Atlantic tender. What was weird about it was that it
had been converted for some other use. Where the coal bin had been there
was a door and presumably an office of some kind. There were air vents on
one side and the engine draft gear had been converted to a standard coupler
(knuckle, not link, so I guess they did it after 1952.) This was the first
real version of the Flyer cheapie tender I have ever seen. It was dirty,
and bizarrely, someone had finger written on it's side, "Pennsylvania R.R."
Considerind that it was behind a chain link fence on railroad property, it
had to be a worker who did that. This was the only relic of steam anywhere
on the grounds.

If you are travelling to NASG by road or are simply tooling through
Pennsylvania looking for remnants of the once great PRR, be aware of this
travel advisory. Although route 99 is a straight shot North from 70, and
purports to connect with route 80, the trans-continental road up north, it
does so by turning east for quite a way and joining 80 at Milesburg. So if
you are coming from the West on 80, you might like to look at an alternate
down to Altoona or you will be going miles out of your way. For those who
will be heading West on 80 and would like to detour to the museum and the
curve, you can use 99, but the exit will also say 220 South, and for a long
time you will be driving a two lane blacktop because 99, the
super-expressway is not complete all the way up just yet. Returning to 80
to continue West, you should consider alternates to avoid driving East
again. Check your maps.

Now, see. This post wasn't about e-Bay at all, was it?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18242 From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: K Line track
Our group needs a circle of used K-Line track for a display. Any help?
Joe Pereira

email: sigma@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 18243 From: bassflyer Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Yahoo! Groups ....
***(((I see, as of tonight
(3/12/02) that we have gone from having a big fat ad in every other
message with a detour to a full ad every third message, to having
TWO big fat ads in EVERY STINKIN' MESSAGE plus the usual detour.
Looks as though Yahoo is softening us up for switching over to a pay-
for-it
type "service" as an alternative to highly obnoxious ad formatting.
If that happens I'm outta here.)))***

I too,...was complaining a while back about this,...however, it
was pointed out to me that by expanding the messages,it allows you to
scroll down through the messages without annoying ads. You can get
the posts through your own email,...but I have always liked going to
the site.


Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18244 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel won't service Flyer?
--- Clay <clayk@...> wrote:
> As a service-station-to-be, I can report that Lionel DOES sell and
> make
> available American Flyer parts for items that are still in tooling.
> I'm
> staring at the parts list.
>
> As for the board, I did not catch which engine it is, but for both O
> and S,
> Lionel doesn't always keep electronic circuitry for older production
> items.
> We've run into this with Lionel O, so it isn;t a unique feature of
> their S
> line.
>
> BeSt,
>
> Clay Kinsner
> Lone Star Trains and Collectibles
> San Antonio, TX
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...>
> To: "s-trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 8:32 AM
> Subject: [S-Trains] Lionel won't service Flyer?
>
>
> > --- rblubaugh01 <RBlubaugh01@...> wrote:
> > > I gave my flyer alco to an approved service station, and he
> reported
> > > that Lionel does not have replacement boards and not return it to
> > > Lionel for repair.
> >
> > The next time somebody gets a chance to interview or ask questions
> of
> > the Lionel president they should ask why anyone should buy the
> Lionel
> > Flyer if Lionel isn't going to service them after the warranty has
> > expired?
> >
> > What do they do about new engines that are still under warranty;
> just
> > replace them?
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> > http://mail.yahoo.com/
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
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> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
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> >
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> >
>


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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18245 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Diesel Horn Activation
I opend my unit to find 7 diodes or cap. in serieson a printed board the
#'s on them are D II (ROMAN Neumeral) above 6A2 they are round and are wired
in serries in a complete circle. That is they run from the black input wire
to the top lead of the diode or cap then the bottom lead goes to the top
lead & so on untill you get to the last of the 7 that bottom lead goes to the
red output wire. I dont have the instrc. There isa sw or contact points
that stay closed untill you press the button. This opens the circuit. It is
placedBetween the black lead & the red lead to open the series of CAPS I
would say at this time., Rather than diodes. I'm not an eletronics type,but
get by. Maybe Alex in Kennybunk can add to this Mike S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18246 From: Horn, David Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: vibrating people/cattle pad
The tape from the fabric store looks interesting. I haven't tried that, but
I did experiment with different types of mohair upholstery from an antique
car restoration vendor David D recommended. I didn't find that any of those
worked as well as ShureLine Edger Paint Pad replacement material. Maybe the
tape is a good solution. In any case, if you use paint pad material be sure
1) the paint pad material is of the shorter (1/8") napth I think it comes as
tall as 1/4" which will make your toys tipsy, 2) you cut it at the correct
angle off the "grain" to get the right balance between sideways and forward
bias, and 3) your replacement "feet" cover the entire base of the person or
heifer that you're working on so it is as stable (no pun intended) as
possible. Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 18247 From: imsscott Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Diesel Horn Activation
--- In S-Trains@y..., "John L." <larry.asp@s...> wrote:
> Just purchased a Flyonel EP5 with a diesel horn sound in it. It
requires a Lionel horn activation button - cant seem to find one.
Does anyone have a circuit diagram and a parts list for one of these
buttons, or have a circuit that could be wired up to make it work - I
know it contains a diode and a only a couple of other parts. Id like
to try home brewing one.

Tom Barker's book has a diagram for a circuit to build a 314AW
controller, which uses the same method to add a DC signal to the AC
power. This will work for the Lionel Flyer horns. It's just a diode
and a capacitor wired in parallel together with one lead of the pair
connected to the track and the other to the normally off/open lead of
a momentary SPDT switch; the normally on/closed lead goes to the
track, and the base pole goes to the transformer. If this doesn't
work, try it on the other transformer lead (switching the track leads
to the other track too.) The horn sounds terrible. Two of these wired
seperately into each transformer/track lead can also be used to
operate Railsounds or American Models' sound boards. The Lionel
version is about $10 each. I haven't been able to get the Lionel box
to be able to sound my 314AW very well; It acts like it's not strong
enough to operate it, but I think a little tuning of the whistle may
do the trick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18248 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Diesel Horn Activation
Here is a link to a schematic of a horn controller. Reverse the polarity
and it will activate the bell if the engine has one.

http://list.wsbt.com/af/Horncontroller/HornController.htm

Carl
Group: S-Trains Message: 18249 From: Horn, David Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: B&O Museum 175th Anniversary events
In case you were not aware, a 16-month celebration of 175 Years started
recently at the B&O Museum in Balitmore. Some events sound like fun. Check
'em out for this year and next at their web site.

http://175.borail.org/events.asp

Toy train related events include:

Inner Harbor Train Show
November 2, 2002
The B&O Railroad Museum's historic roundhouse will be filled with model
train hobbyists offering many gauges and types of model trains and
accessories for sale or trade.

Holiday Traditions at the B&O Railroad Museum
November 29 - December 1, 2002
A three-day kick off of our winter holiday celebration featuring Santa's
arrival, traditional model train gardens, and seasonal entertainment.

Holiday Traditions at the B&O Railroad Museum
December 1-30, 2002
A month long celebration of model railroading in America. Operating model
train layouts and holiday gardens. Seasonal entertainment. Museum closed
Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, New Year's Eve and New Year's Day.

Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 18250 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Nice car on e-Bay
Hi,

I'm seriously thinking about taking the train to the NASG convention this summer from Harrisburg. It's a treat to ride around horseshoe curve by train, then up over the mountain, even with all the goats and chickens running loose in the cars. I love it when the engineer stops the train and the locals come out selling their blankets and huge ears of corn steamed and salted. I usually chew cocoa leaves and limestone for altitude sickness.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Zizzo
To: slist
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 12:21 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Nice car on e-Bay


OK, for those of you who skip e-Bay posts, you'll just miss out!

I bought a car on e-Bay. Not a $39.99 hopper car. A car. A 2001 PT
Cruiser. Actually, I never bid. He started it at 19,500. No bids at that
price. I e-mailed him and after some haggling, got the car for $18,750,
stopping the auction. Thanks to all of you for sending me money. Keep
those checks coming!

(See the pix at
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1079096078 )

The Cruiser was in Ohio. I'm in NY. I flew out to get it and drove it
home. Yesterday.

If you buy a new car, driving it 671 miles right away is a good way to get
acquainted. I'm in love. Anyway, all of this is just a preamble to what I
was really writing about.

I had, in the back of my mind, a desire to stop in Altoona and see the
horseshoe curve. I had no map and was barrelling east on 70 (PA Pike)
gauging my gas needs. I figured to stop at the next exit for a fill up.
Hello, a sign; Bedford: Gas and Route 99 to . . . Altoona!

99 is a North-South super-highway parallelling PA220, which it replaces.
Sometimes it shares the route number with it. Altoona is 35 miles north of
the PA Pike. You take the 17th. Street exit and follow the signs to the
Railroaders Museum. There they sell combo tickets for the displays and the
curve which is 5 miles away. The curve is closed now to visitors, though it
will be open when we go out for NASG. You can stand on the road below and
look up at the tracks. It looks bigger in the photographs than in real
life. More impressive is what the Altoona municipality has built in terms
of water control projects. You drive through all of that on the way up,
including going through a horseshoe curve of your own as the road doubles
back in the same fashion as the railroad.

The K-4 Pacific that used to pose on the curve has been replaced by a Geep.
Anyone at the last NASG who took the Steamtown tour saw the Pacific in the
middle of some boiler work. It'll be at least a year before she gets lit
up.

The museum in town, sitting next to the NS mainline, is a real beauty. I
didn't spend a lot of time, but I will return in the Summer. Outside, on
the tracks, it is an S gauge display in prototype. (Funny way to put that.)
A fluted Budd car, a crane that had to be a model of Gilbert's "Bucyrus
Erie", a five stripe tuscan GG-1, (not looking as good as my AM), a wood
reefer (which they were selling, for $39.99, and the hatches really open),
an REA Express car, a smooth sided diner w/ kitchen, an SW-9 from a
regional road, a passenger car completely wrapped in tarps and two more
smoothies, one of which, a boattail observation with a Keystone drumhead,
tore my heart out. It was so rusted out, the curved glass cracked and
discolored, duct tape over the holes in the roof. It was disheartening to
see it so lame. In another section that was outside the museum grounds and
in the NS repair yards, was a coal tender that looked to be the prototype of
that tinny metal Flyer Atlantic tender. What was weird about it was that it
had been converted for some other use. Where the coal bin had been there
was a door and presumably an office of some kind. There were air vents on
one side and the engine draft gear had been converted to a standard coupler
(knuckle, not link, so I guess they did it after 1952.) This was the first
real version of the Flyer cheapie tender I have ever seen. It was dirty,
and bizarrely, someone had finger written on it's side, "Pennsylvania R.R."
Considerind that it was behind a chain link fence on railroad property, it
had to be a worker who did that. This was the only relic of steam anywhere
on the grounds.

If you are travelling to NASG by road or are simply tooling through
Pennsylvania looking for remnants of the once great PRR, be aware of this
travel advisory. Although route 99 is a straight shot North from 70, and
purports to connect with route 80, the trans-continental road up north, it
does so by turning east for quite a way and joining 80 at Milesburg. So if
you are coming from the West on 80, you might like to look at an alternate
down to Altoona or you will be going miles out of your way. For those who
will be heading West on 80 and would like to detour to the museum and the
curve, you can use 99, but the exit will also say 220 South, and for a long
time you will be driving a two lane blacktop because 99, the
super-expressway is not complete all the way up just yet. Returning to 80
to continue West, you should consider alternates to avoid driving East
again. Check your maps.

Now, see. This post wasn't about e-Bay at all, was it?

Chris Zizzo



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18251 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: St. Gilbert's Day
Sorry Chris, can't make it. I visited in February and can't seem to
make (read
afford) to trips back to back. Wife is going to VA in April, but that
is a little
late. Have a good time.
Rance (Norway).

Chris Zizzo wrote:

> Gill W. Lott bemoans:
> >So in honor of 3/16 we don't have a site!!!????
>
> It's OK Gill. We'll all be up in New Haven anyway. The pilgrimage this
> year will be a big one, with Flyer fans from all over the world "Flying" in
> to our Mecca. (You're coming, aren't you Rance?)
>
> The parade kicks off at 8 AM right in front of the big Yale auditorium and
> makes it's way all the way up to the old factory, then across the highway,
> ending at the museum. It takes all day. We've only got one of the "Kids at
> the Crossing Gate" left (the younger one.) I hope he has the strength to
> make the whole parade. (He just sits in the limo and waves.)
>
> I understand that the original group known as the LGE (Last Gilbert
> Employees) have quite a float planned. You may remember last years Santa Fe
> ALCo ABA that was made with a Kenworth sleeper cab pulling a double bottom.
> It was fantastic! This year, they promise a steam engine cutaway with
> drivers, side rods, a huge smoke unit puffing and choo-choo-ing. It will be
> interesting to hear if a full scale Gilbert choo-choo piston sounds like a
> real steam engine!
>
> Well, I'm going! I'll be wearing the blue and the yellow and bringing lots
> of cigars (everybody has to smoke!) and putting a little cedar oil behind my
> ears for good luck. There're always plenty of pretty girls, so I'll bring
> my Erector set. (Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.) With a touch of the old Mysto
> Magic, we might have some Chemistry! :-)
>
> For those who cannot attend, I'll file a report as soon as I get home and
> sleep off the nicotine.
> For the rest of you, see you in Erector Square!
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18252 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Nice car on e-Bay
Alrighty, smarty-pants. On the turnoff to Altoona, I bought two Indian
blankets at a roadside stand, in colors to match the car. They also had
some Pemmican and chewing tobacco for sale, but I didn't get any. Wrong
season for the corn, though. Plenty of limestone.

Chris Zizzo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>
To: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>; "Chris Zizzo"
<busyboy@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Nice car on e-Bay


Hi,

I'm seriously thinking about taking the train to the NASG convention this
summer from Harrisburg. It's a treat to ride around horseshoe curve by
train, then up over the mountain, even with all the goats and chickens
running loose in the cars. I love it when the engineer stops the train and
the locals come out selling their blankets and huge ears of corn steamed and
salted. I usually chew cocoa leaves and limestone for altitude sickness.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Zizzo
To: slist
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 12:21 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Nice car on e-Bay


OK, for those of you who skip e-Bay posts, you'll just miss out!

I bought a car on e-Bay. Not a $39.99 hopper car. A car. A 2001 PT
Cruiser. Actually, I never bid. He started it at 19,500. No bids at
that
price. I e-mailed him and after some haggling, got the car for $18,750,
stopping the auction. Thanks to all of you for sending me money. Keep
those checks coming!

(See the pix at
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1079096078 )

The Cruiser was in Ohio. I'm in NY. I flew out to get it and drove it
home. Yesterday.

If you buy a new car, driving it 671 miles right away is a good way to get
acquainted. I'm in love. Anyway, all of this is just a preamble to what
I
was really writing about.

I had, in the back of my mind, a desire to stop in Altoona and see the
horseshoe curve. I had no map and was barrelling east on 70 (PA Pike)
gauging my gas needs. I figured to stop at the next exit for a fill up.
Hello, a sign; Bedford: Gas and Route 99 to . . . Altoona!

99 is a North-South super-highway parallelling PA220, which it replaces.
Sometimes it shares the route number with it. Altoona is 35 miles north
of
the PA Pike. You take the 17th. Street exit and follow the signs to the
Railroaders Museum. There they sell combo tickets for the displays and
the
curve which is 5 miles away. The curve is closed now to visitors, though
it
will be open when we go out for NASG. You can stand on the road below and
look up at the tracks. It looks bigger in the photographs than in real
life. More impressive is what the Altoona municipality has built in terms
of water control projects. You drive through all of that on the way up,
including going through a horseshoe curve of your own as the road doubles
back in the same fashion as the railroad.

The K-4 Pacific that used to pose on the curve has been replaced by a
Geep.
Anyone at the last NASG who took the Steamtown tour saw the Pacific in the
middle of some boiler work. It'll be at least a year before she gets lit
up.

The museum in town, sitting next to the NS mainline, is a real beauty. I
didn't spend a lot of time, but I will return in the Summer. Outside, on
the tracks, it is an S gauge display in prototype. (Funny way to put
that.)
A fluted Budd car, a crane that had to be a model of Gilbert's "Bucyrus
Erie", a five stripe tuscan GG-1, (not looking as good as my AM), a wood
reefer (which they were selling, for $39.99, and the hatches really open),
an REA Express car, a smooth sided diner w/ kitchen, an SW-9 from a
regional road, a passenger car completely wrapped in tarps and two more
smoothies, one of which, a boattail observation with a Keystone drumhead,
tore my heart out. It was so rusted out, the curved glass cracked and
discolored, duct tape over the holes in the roof. It was disheartening to
see it so lame. In another section that was outside the museum grounds
and
in the NS repair yards, was a coal tender that looked to be the prototype
of
that tinny metal Flyer Atlantic tender. What was weird about it was that
it
had been converted for some other use. Where the coal bin had been there
was a door and presumably an office of some kind. There were air vents on
one side and the engine draft gear had been converted to a standard
coupler
(knuckle, not link, so I guess they did it after 1952.) This was the
first
real version of the Flyer cheapie tender I have ever seen. It was dirty,
and bizarrely, someone had finger written on it's side, "Pennsylvania
R.R."
Considerind that it was behind a chain link fence on railroad property, it
had to be a worker who did that. This was the only relic of steam
anywhere
on the grounds.

If you are travelling to NASG by road or are simply tooling through
Pennsylvania looking for remnants of the once great PRR, be aware of this
travel advisory. Although route 99 is a straight shot North from 70, and
purports to connect with route 80, the trans-continental road up north, it
does so by turning east for quite a way and joining 80 at Milesburg. So
if
you are coming from the West on 80, you might like to look at an alternate
down to Altoona or you will be going miles out of your way. For those who
will be heading West on 80 and would like to detour to the museum and the
curve, you can use 99, but the exit will also say 220 South, and for a
long
time you will be driving a two lane blacktop because 99, the
super-expressway is not complete all the way up just yet. Returning to 80
to continue West, you should consider alternates to avoid driving East
again. Check your maps.

Now, see. This post wasn't about e-Bay at all, was it?

Chris Zizzo



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18253 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: interesting item on ebay 375???
--- In S-Trains@y..., "Keith Kuzma" <keithkuzma@h...> wrote:
>
> Is it real or not?Item # 1713144079
>
>
> Keith
>
> My book says "item is easily faked, buy with caution". Original is
worth 1700.00 in mint condition.
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger:
http://messenger.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 18254 From: Rick Evans Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Yahoo! Groups ....
Larry,
Are you reading the posts at the site? Or do you receive them through your email??
At the site is where the ads pop up!
Rick.


**((I do not know what you guys are doing, but I do not get any ads.
Thank you
Larry Jackman))**




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18255 From: Rick Evans Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Yahoo! Groups ....
**((How do you expand the messages ?
Thanks, Steve Blancard))**

At the top of the page,...it should say, EXPAND MESSAGES,...just click on that.
(this is at the S-Trains site)

Rick.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18256 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel won't service Flyer?
The E-unit for the Wabash Part #40-0106 is no longer available.
However the current E-unit used in later units, Part #640-8112-116 is
available and will work. It retails for $36.30. It is an updated version.
I do service station repairs and these E-units don't use proprietary parts
and are repairable. Most board components are available at Radio Shack.

The output transistors are the most common failure and easily replaced with
Radio Shack part #276-2017 (TIP 31) and #276-2027 (TIP 42).

Carl


-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Holm [mailto:imsscott@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 1:09 PM
To: s-trains
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Lionel won't service Flyer?



--- Clay <clayk@...> wrote:
> As a service-station-to-be, I can report that Lionel DOES sell and
> make
> available American Flyer parts for items that are still in tooling.
> I'm
> staring at the parts list.
>
> As for the board, I did not catch which engine it is, but for both O
> and S,
> Lionel doesn't always keep electronic circuitry for older production
> items.
> We've run into this with Lionel O, so it isn;t a unique feature of
> their S
> line.
>
> BeSt,
>
> Clay Kinsner
> Lone Star Trains and Collectibles
> San Antonio, TX
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...>
> To: "s-trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 8:32 AM
> Subject: [S-Trains] Lionel won't service Flyer?
>
>
> > --- rblubaugh01 <RBlubaugh01@...> wrote:
> > > I gave my flyer alco to an approved service station, and he
> reported
> > > that Lionel does not have replacement boards and not return it to
> > > Lionel for repair.
> >
> > The next time somebody gets a chance to interview or ask questions
> of
> > the Lionel president they should ask why anyone should buy the
> Lionel
> > Flyer if Lionel isn't going to service them after the warranty has
> > expired?
> >
> > What do they do about new engines that are still under warranty;
> just
> > replace them?
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> > http://mail.yahoo.com/
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18257 From: Lance McCold Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: track bending / unbending jig for flyer track
Ron,

Can you post a picture or two?

Thanks,

Lance McCold
Knoxville, Tennessee

>Message: 25
> Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:55:53 -0500
> From: "ron inscho" <ronnat@...>
>Subject: Re: K Line track other radius track
>
>
>I recently purchased a track bending / unbending jig for flyer track .It
>will take standard radius Gilbert curved track & change it to 28",42",54"&
>72" Radius . So far it works great It cost $49.95 & was purchased from
>Van's trains box 1365 Fairlawn NJ. 07410 phone 201-797-3116
Group: S-Trains Message: 18258 From: Wayne and Alice Beachy Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: S gauge Southern PA set
Hi all,

Fellow ACSGr Nick Colleran, and I have been working for some time on some Southern PAs. Southern owned 5 of these beauties. They were used to pull streamline cars on the rails west of Virginia. A few years ago I custom-painted some Flyer Budds for Southern. Nick thought how great it would be to pull those with a set of PAs done in Southern Green. He was right.

Nick had the Gilbert shells which he cleaned-up and primed. I painted the shells and used Microscale S scale decals, modified for the PA's nose, to letter them. Then Nick installed Lionel can motors, and Dallee sound equipment. Wouldn't these look great pulling a string of AM Budds?

To see the photos, go to my web page at http://waynestrains.homestead.com/index.html then click on S gauge trains, then click on N&W custom decorated equipment, and finally click on the Southern button. The photos are on the bottom of the page. Enjoy.

Wayne Beachy
Virginia Central Division
Atlantic Coast S Gaugers
http://sgauge.homestead.com/acsgindex.html



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18259 From: judgeatkck Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Klean n Shine
I have used Klean n Shine a product by Johnson Wax to clean chrome
plated passsenger cars as well as most of my rolling stock. I
haven't been able to find it recently in the local stores here in the
Kansas City Area. Does anyone know what chains might have this
product? Also, do any of you use it?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18260 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: K Line track
Roy Inman wrote:

>If you are saying that K-Line doesn't make S gauge track any longer,
>I think that is not correct.

Nevetheless, it is what I was told by a store owner several years ago.

>In the current catalog, 2002 first edition, they list three flavors
>of S gauge track:

It's quite possible that they stopped making it for a while, and have
resumed production. Maybe demand caught up with supply. If so, that's
encouraging.

>At least that is what is in the catalog. And we all know, sometimes
>what is cataloged is not produced :)

Lionel sure has S gaugers accustomed to that, alright!


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18261 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/13/2002
Subject: Re: Yahoo! Groups ....
Rick wrote:

>I too,...was complaining a while back about this,...however, it
>was pointed out to me that by expanding the messages,it allows you
>to scroll down through the messages without annoying ads.

Thanks, Rick. I tried it, and it does put the messages in a more
readable format, sans ads! Cool. (Wonder how long it will last.)

BTW, for those looking for it, the "Expand Messages" option appears
on the "Messages" list page, but not on each message.

BTW2, since last night, it appears Yahoo has returned to the single
ad per message format of two days ago. S'pose they got a complaint or
two? :^)


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18262 From: mfjdunn@bellsouth.net Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: needed items
Does anyone have any spare AF #730 Track Bumpers ? I need 4 more to complete a turntable installation on my layout. Also, if any of you that have converted your AF steamers to can motors have any good fields and armatures, particularly large motor types, that you would like to sell, I would be interested. If you have any of the above, contact me off-list at mfjdunn@... or afchoochoo@....
Thanks,
Jim Dunn
Group: S-Trains Message: 18263 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Identifying locomotives
Can anybody recommend a web site or a book that has diagrams or
pictures of steam and diesel locomotives for the purposes of
identifying them? Something akin to the silhouette identification
charts used in the military to identify enemy planes and ships?

When I see a train go by I never have the vaguest idea what the engine is.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18264 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Identifying locomotives
Hi Scott:
Do you still see steam engines???
Rance

Scott Holm wrote:

> Can anybody recommend a web site or a book that has diagrams or
> pictures of steam and diesel locomotives for the purposes of
> identifying them? Something akin to the silhouette identification
> charts used in the military to identify enemy planes and ships?
>
> When I see a train go by I never have the vaguest idea what the engine is.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
> http://sports.yahoo.com/
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18265 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Identifying locomotives
I knew somebody jump on that. Yes, as a matter of fact I do; They are
little ones.


--- Rance and Bente Velapoldi <velapoldi@...> wrote:
> Hi Scott:
> Do you still see steam engines???
> Rance
>
> Scott Holm wrote:
>
> > Can anybody recommend a web site or a book that has diagrams or
> > pictures of steam and diesel locomotives for the purposes of
> > identifying them? Something akin to the silhouette identification
> > charts used in the military to identify enemy planes and ships?
> >
> > When I see a train go by I never have the vaguest idea what the
> engine is.
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
> > http://sports.yahoo.com/
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18266 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Virginian parts
Does anyone know where I can obtain the covers that go on the bottom
openings of the 632 diecast Virginian hopper? I need all four.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO
Group: S-Trains Message: 18267 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: tender shell
A few days ago someone was looking for a metal tender shell.
Unfortunately, I deleted the message before I looked to see what I had.
If you are that person and still need one, contact me off the list.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO
Group: S-Trains Message: 18268 From: David Dewey Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Identifying locomotives
Scott,
Kalmbach used to publish a "Diesel Spotter's Guide." Somewhere I have
one given to me back in the 70's (A gift from someone who didn't realize
that my interest then was focused on Steam--F units went by my house almost
daily back then, lots of Black Widow units too! Check a recent Trains
magazine for ads, maybe they're still being published.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18269 From: John DeFelice Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: 303 wirin harness
Hi, Can anyone describe the wiring harness between the engine & tender on a 303 Atlantic? Is it Grey, Green & black like a 307, or just black?
Thanks John


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18270 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Turntables
Where do I look for a turntable to be used with my AF trains? Have
never seen any at train shows or offered by dealers. Is the only
alternative to make your own? Thanks in advance for all the help!
John.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18271 From: crustyfour Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Turntables
Check out Doug Peck's web site:

http://www.portlines.com/

He sells turntables and just about anything else you could possibly
need.

Steve Blancard

--- In S-Trains@y..., "hcopter52" <hcopter51@a...> wrote:
> Where do I look for a turntable to be used with my AF trains? Have
> never seen any at train shows or offered by dealers. Is the only
> alternative to make your own? Thanks in advance for all the help!
> John.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18272 From: Michael Greene Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Cast your vote today!
Just a reminder to my S friends that Model Railroader is closing voting
this month for its MR Readers' Choice Awards. This is our opportunity to
vote for our favorite S products, and also make a strong showing with Model
Railroader (based on the number of S votes it receives). Don't miss this
opportunity! Vote today if you haven't already voted! Ballots and the other
details were in the March 2002 issue of Model Railroader!

Michael
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Greene Dunstable, MA, USA
Member: NMRA, NASG, Bristol S Gaugers, NTRAK, TCA, The 470 Railroad Club

Bristol S Gaugers http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com
National Assoc. of S Gaugers http://www.nasg.org
Maine Railroads (including DCC Corner) http://www.mainerailroads.org

need a good web hosting service? see http://www.fivebuckhost.com/?r=mgreenej
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Group: S-Trains Message: 18273 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Can motors & video update
Howdy all,

Just wanted to give a report on a new version of the can motor replacement
kits we have been selling. We had some single lead worms made that
effectively cut the speed of operation of the loco almost in half. The plus
side of this is that it now takes full transformer voltage (16-18v) to get
your loco to run at the same speed it did at 12-13v. What's good about that?
How about the reverse unit coil staying engaged over switches and rough
spots. Remember how you had to goose some of your locos sometimes to get them
over without recycling? The big plus is however, that the higher voltage
makes your headlight brighter and THE SMOKE UNITS WORK BETTER. You know the
ones you have that don't smoke very good art 12v but smoke great at 15. Can't
run them that way though because they derail. The single lead worms let you
run em in super creep too if your of a mind to.
Just another option from us. Still working on the Diesel kit but it goes
slow.

"S-Gauge Model Railroading" Vol. IV has flown off the shelves and I had to
order another run already. We have Vols. I through III available again too.

Keep em "S"mokin'....."S"teve & "S"am
Group: S-Trains Message: 18274 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Turntables
Try this link...
http://www.bowser-trains.com/S%20Gauge/s_gauge_turntables.htm

-----Original Message-----
From: hcopter52 [mailto:hcopter51@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 12:46 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Turntables


Where do I look for a turntable to be used with my AF trains? Have
never seen any at train shows or offered by dealers. Is the only
alternative to make your own? Thanks in advance for all the help!
John.


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18275 From: AF336 Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: 303 wirin harness
Mine is Grey, Green and Black.

Mark

----- Original Message -----
From: "John DeFelice" <jdefelice@...>
To: "american flyer list" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 11:23 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] 303 wirin harness


> Hi, Can anyone describe the wiring harness between the engine & tender on
a 303 Atlantic? Is it Grey, Green & black like a 307, or just black?
> Thanks John
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18276 From: Robert Wight Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Hobo's
I recently purchased from Don at Scenery Unlimited. I must say for some of
the newer guys that never ordered from there. They are terrific. Just
doesn't get anybetter. One of the items I purchesed was the Plasticville
Hobo Jungle. Realy looks kohl under my elevated track line off in the
corner. But I need scale HoBo's. Any suggestions for scale Hobo's. Were to
find them ect.
Thanks
Happy Railroading
Bob Wight


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Group: S-Trains Message: 18277 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Turntables
--- In S-Trains@y..., Carl Tuveson <carl@w...> wrote:
> Try this link...
> http://www.bowser-trains.com/S%20Gauge/s_gauge_turntables.htm
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: hcopter52 [mailto:hcopter51@a...]
> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 12:46 PM
> To: S-Trains@y...
> Subject: [S-Trains] Turntables
>
>
> Where do I look for a turntable to be used with my AF trains? Have
> never seen any at train shows or offered by dealers. Is the only
> alternative to make your own? Thanks in advance for all the help!
> John.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Thanks to Steve,Carl,Mike and Jim for their help. Much appreciated!!!
Want Answers? Find them here! John
Group: S-Trains Message: 18278 From: crustyfour Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Can motors & video update
--- In S-Trains@y..., boss31@a... wrote:
> We had some single lead worms made that
> effectively cut the speed of operation of the loco almost in half.

"S"teve & "S"am
Does this mean, in effect that the gearing is lower and the pulling
power is increased ? I have visions of a 100 car coal drag over
horseshoe curve!

Thanks,
Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 18279 From: crustyfour Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: 25515 Motorized Rocket Sled
I just saw the a photo of one of these units on the RFG web site,
under accessories on the left side of the page:

http://www.rfgco.com/

Does anyone have one of these ? How does it run? Is it the same
chassis as the 740 hand car? I suppose it would be out of place on
just about any layout, but I'm sure the kids would love it.

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 18280 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Jacksonville area
Going to be in Jacksonville, Florida area the last week of March. Are
there any interesting train shops or lay-outs to see in this part of the
country? Any advise would be appreciated.

Mike Leahy (Boulder, CO.)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18281 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: 25515 Motorized Rocket Sled
--- crustyfour <splitdorf@...> wrote:
> Does anyone have one of these ?

I do.

> How does it run?

It really moves. At full throttle it won't stay on the track, but it
would be great in a drag race. I got it for Christmas when I was a kid.
The motor burned out three times when it was brand new; It was
constantly in the shop. Now that it's wound with modern magnet wire
which is coated with stronger enamel, it's doing much better. I've also
had to repair the busted screw posts twice after leaps off the track.
And I also corrected the wheels being out of gauge, which was causing
the leaps off the track when the car hit a slightly narrow section of
track.

> Is it the same chassis as the 740 hand car?

No, but it does have the same motor as the track maintenance car. I'm
not sure if the chassis is the same though.

> I suppose it would be out of place on just about any layout,

It came with a U.S.A.F. black flat car.

> but I'm sure the kids would love it.

Yes they do. It also has a pilot who can be ejected when passing over
an energized uncoupler. It came with a manual uncoupler.





__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18282 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Hobo's
Don also has Hobo's made by Arttista. I don't have a current catalog,
but by the 2000 catalog they are $2.50 unpainted and $4.50 painted. I
bought all three {painted} styles that were offered and they are very
nicely done.

Oh Boy Trains!....................Herkie 1950

Obie Bell
Group: S-Trains Message: 18283 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1375
Chris: how many times do we have to hear about your car.

314aw steam whistle draws a lot of power, using a LIONEL a 6-5906 sound
activation button may not pass adequate current to blow the whistle
properly, the whistle requires almost full power (15 volts) to sound
good and at high altitude 6000 ft + requires full power. My suggestion is
to use a LIONEL multi-volt transformer it has a 5 volt compensating
winding to help with the required current. Before I get feed back for
using the L word, the original LIONEL equipment very well engineered.

Jerry Dobbs 77-11644

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18284 From: richgajnak Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Identifying locomotives
Scott Holm wrote:
>Can anybody recommend a web site or a book that has diagrams or
>pictures of steam and diesel locomotives for the purposes of
>identifying them? Something akin to the silhouette identification
>charts used in the military to identify enemy planes and ships?

Scott,

For steam locomotives, try:

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/misc/wheels.html

Doesn't have the silhouettes, but does use the Whyte listing (ex: 4-6-
2 Pacific) Go back up to the steamlocomive homepage and you may
find some more usefull info.

Be Seeing You...
Rich G.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18285 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: New Gear Reduction DC Can Motor Conversion Kit
I am now producing a limited run of my Gear Reduction DC Can Motor
Conversion Kits for American Flyer Steam Locomotives.

This is a link for info and picture.:
http://www.tuveson.com/gearedmotorkit/gear_reduction_kit.htm

This is a NEW conversion kit for Most American Flyer Steam locomotives
developed for the modeler who wants scale performance and prototype power.

Features:

-No modification to the Loco chassis.
-User replaceable inexpensive DC Can motor
(available at any Lionel service station or parts dealer.)
-Steel Worm Drive Gear with double start worm for long life.
(not running at twice the normal speed)
-Original type thrust bearing surfaces for large loads
-Low current draw
-High starting torque
-Smooth operation
-Fits the 285,293,300,316,322,336,342 etc. family of locos.
-Improved Gear ratio of 30 to 1 (17 to 1 is AF stock ratio)
-Sturdy Double bearing worm drive.
-Bolt in replacement of the original motor
-Easily removed so not to effect collectable value of loco.
-Each unit is test run before shipping
-Can be run on AC by adding bridge rectifier in tender

Price is $25 plus 3.50 shipping each.

To order send check for $28.50 times quantity desired to:

Carl Tuveson
928 Finch Drive.
South Bend, IN, 46614

Please include your E-mail address for Order and Shipping confirmation
Group: S-Trains Message: 18286 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1376
In a message dated 3/14/02 3:15:34 PM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> Does this mean, in effect that the gearing is lower and the pulling
> power is increased ? I have visions of a 100 car coal drag over
> horseshoe curve!
>
> Thanks,
> Steve Blancard
>

Of Course....."S"teve & "S"am


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18287 From: ironhors@swbell.net Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: 25515 Motorized Rocket Sled
Scott Holm wrote:

> --- crustyfour <splitdorf@...> wrote:
> > Does anyone have one of these ?
>
> I do.
>
> > How does it run?
>
> It really moves. At full throttle it won't stay on the track, but it
> would be great in a drag race. I got it for Christmas when I was a kid.
> The motor burned out three times when it was brand new; It was
> constantly in the shop. Now that it's wound with modern magnet wire
> which is coated with stronger enamel, it's doing much better. I've also
> had to repair the busted screw posts twice after leaps off the track.
> And I also corrected the wheels being out of gauge, which was causing
> the leaps off the track when the car hit a slightly narrow section of
> track.
>
> > Is it the same chassis as the 740 hand car?
>
> No, but it does have the same motor as the track maintenance car. I'm
> not sure if the chassis is the same though.
>
> > I suppose it would be out of place on just about any layout,
>
> It came with a U.S.A.F. black flat car.
>
> > but I'm sure the kids would love it.
>
> Yes they do. It also has a pilot who can be ejected when passing over
> an energized uncoupler. It came with a manual uncoupler.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
> http://sports.yahoo.com/
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Hmmm, has anyone ever entered one of them in the NASG train races?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18288 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Caig List -- Again!
Boyz,
I'm tiring of this fast. I have 22 checks out of 36. They have slowed to a
dribble.

I want to get this over with.

If you changed your mind and want out, no harm - no foul. Just e-mail me
privately and tell me you are not sending a check. If you want in, stop
making me wait! Send the damn check now. If this keeps up, I will send the
order when I have 24 only.

Many thanks to those who have followed through. To the rest, hustle up!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18289 From: Gale Hall Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Amp probe
Good evening all,

Got to thinking about some of the members wanting to use an amp probe to check amperage on the AF engines. This is just going to give you the light load amps with it free wheeling on the test bench, it might catch a bind in rods or gears and let you have an idea as to what the amp load might be....why not just add an amp meter to the track power circuit, and a volt meter for that matter and you can see what the engine draw under any given load. After a few trials you will be able to detect a high amp draw engine and then start working to solve the problem.

gale hall


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18290 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Amp probe
Hi Gale,
Easier said than done. Have you ever tried to find an ammeter
that stays in the 8amp and lower range. Anything higher you can"t read it.
like on a 200 amp meter. If you know of a reas. 8 amp or lower meter let
me/us know. I have looked in catalogs & surplus stores,No luck. Thank You
Mike S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18291 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Amp probe
Hi Gale,
Sorry I left out AC Amp Meter Dc are very easty to come by.
Does anyone know why? Mike
Group: S-Trains Message: 18292 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Amp probe
Here is a link to some very reasonably priced AC ammeters.

http://www.mpja.com/allnopict.asp?dept=282


Carl

-----Original Message-----
From: anormal1@... [mailto:anormal1@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 8:54 PM
To: frisco91@...; S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Amp probe


Hi Gale,
Easier said than done. Have you ever tried to find an ammeter
that stays in the 8amp and lower range. Anything higher you can"t read it.
like on a 200 amp meter. If you know of a reas. 8 amp or lower meter let
me/us know. I have looked in catalogs & surplus stores,No luck. Thank You
Mike S.

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18293 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Hydrocal vs Plaster?
Folks,

I've been wondering about the difference between Hydrocal and plain old
plaster for model scenery. I know there is a price difference. Is the
higher price of Hydrocal worth that difference?

A friend of "el cheapo"

Bill Trefts

________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18294 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: 303 wire harness
Greetings, on my 303 there two yellow, one green and one black together with
an additional black. The yellow is light in color but is not the Grey color
on my 307. Hope this helps! Best wishes, Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 18295 From: Jerry Hiett Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Yahoo! Groups ....
I missed the original letter about pop-up ads. But if they are a problem (they
are for me), go to CNET.com http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-3356748-100-8156476.html?tag=st.dl.10001-103-1.lst-7-1.8156476
and download Analog X's POW. In a short time you will be getting very few pop-ups.
It only kills ads that you to tell it to, so you get the ad once, but never
again. Since I have installed it less than 2 months ago, it has killed more
than 1,000 ads, according to its database records.

jerry


> Larry,
> Are you reading the posts at the site? Or do you receive them through your
email??
> At the site is where the ads pop up!
> Rick.
>
>
> **((I do not know what you guys are doing, but I do not get any ads.
> Thank you
> Larry Jackman))**
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>
>
>
______________________________________________
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Visit www.Adoption.com.
Get FREE Adoption.com e-mail at www.AdoptionMail.com.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18296 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/14/2002
Subject: Re: Amp probe
> If you know of a reas. 8 amp or lower meter let me/us know.

This has been posted before but Radio Shack has a decent 0-5 A panel
Ammeter available at their web site for $10.94. You can get one for
each track.

http://www.radioshack.com/searchsku.asp?find=910-0366

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18297 From: notcoldenough Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Hydrocal vs Plaster?
--- In S-Trains@y..., wmhtreftsv@j... wrote:
> I've been wondering about the difference between Hydrocal and plain
old plaster for model scenery.

Bill,

Hydrocal is much stronger and harder than regular plaster. Doctors
used to use it to make arm casts (as I found out after a volleyball
game!).

A paper towel dipped into hydrocal will be amazingly strong when it
dries. My layout periodically gets invaded by our cats and the
hydrocal holds up.

The following paragraph was excerpted from this webpage -

http://www.greatesthobby.com/wgh/site/faq/mrr_questions.asp

Scenery
1. What is Hydrocal? A trademark product of U. S. Gypsum (USG Corp.),
Hydrocal plaster's biggest advantage is its strength. Paper towels
dipped in a soupy mix of Hydrocal and applied to a structure of
balled paper or interwoven cardboard strips make a remarkably strong
scenery shell. Hydrocal also takes detail very well when cast in
rubber rock molds. Its drawback is that it is more difficult to carve
and detail, unlike softer molding plaster that modelers usually
prefer as the top coat on plaster scenery.

Here is another link:

http://www.nmra.org/beginner/scenery.html

Hope this helps.

John G
Group: S-Trains Message: 18298 From: Robert Wight Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Poor Photos of my small layout in progress
Heres a small layout. Its still in progress. the photos are very bad. need
better lighting for this toy camera. Ive added a hobo village ill get a
photo soon. Im new at this but I beleave this link will get you to it.


http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bobgaylord

Bob Wight

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18299 From: af21115 Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Yahoo! Groups ....
Analog X is OK, but it allows the pop-up to load BEFORE it does its
thing. It this loading that slows down your PC, and, more
importantly, allows spyware to be installed by some of the scripts
that run those ads. I use WebWasher. You can download it on CNet as
well. It too is customizable. When installed it has a pre-defined
database with the most common URL's installed. If a pop-up gets past
these just right click and sent to the washlist. Besides filtering by
URL, you can also filter by Dimension, Pop-UP, Scripts, Animations,
and Cookies. It also takes care of Web Bugs, and stops Referral
software which is another term for spyware. Its free, so you cannot
beat the price. Its an easy install, and with a little practice in
setting some of the trickier URL's, virtually ALL SPAM and garbage is
gone, including the TON we get on Yahoo. In conjunction I recommend
AdAware which is free, and a personal firewall called ZoneAlarm, also
free, both available at CNet. Since I've gotten WebWasher and
ZoneAlarm each of my weekly runs of AdAware has come up clean. :o)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18300 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Hydrocal vs Plaster?
I had a layout in place for 20 years. One section was plain plaster. The other
hydracal.
I those 20 years. I noticed no difference. People used to say Hydracal is lighter and
stronger.
As far as I know a 25 pound bag of hydracal weighs the same as a 25 pound of
plaster.
Is far as strength goes. I never planed on standing on it.

Roger Hinds

wmhtreftsv@... wrote:

> Folks,
>
> I've been wondering about the difference between Hydrocal and plain old
> plaster for model scenery. I know there is a price difference. Is the
> higher price of Hydrocal worth that difference?
>
> A friend of "el cheapo"
>
> Bill Trefts
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
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> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18301 From: jfrr54 Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Hydrocal vs Plaster?
--- In S-Trains@y..., "notcoldenough" <NotColdEnough@h...> wrote:
> --- In S-Trains@y..., wmhtreftsv@j... wrote:
> > I've been wondering about the difference between Hydrocal and
plain
> old plaster for model scenery.
>
>Because I'm lazy and artistically challenged, I sent bought some
some hydrocal cast S scale brick walls from CC Crow. They look great.
The detail is very well done. They are about a an 1/8 of an inch
thick which gives them some substance. I haven't measured the bricks,
yet but they look to be about 1/64 scale. His website contains a long
discussion of how to use hydrocal and make casts. His website is
www.cccrow.com. The brick walls are about 5 inches high and can be
cut. However, I wanted mine to be 5 inches high to make a retaining
wall and cover some wood.

I have used plaster for mountains and stuff, and basically find it to
be real easy to use if you are glopping it on. It is extremely fragile
after it is done and flakes off very easily. The hydrocal does appear
more solid.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18302 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Flyer in Pittsburgh?
Hi Group,

I may be taking a temporary assignment in the Wheeling, WV area later
this month through mid-May. I'll have weekends free to search the
area for Flyer goodies to add to my layout. Does anyone know any
good hobby shops, flea markets or other sources of Flyer in the
Pittsburgh, Wheeling, Columbus area?

Thanks,

BG1
Group: S-Trains Message: 18303 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer in Pittsburgh?
Hey Bull,
try this site out for WV.http://www.railterminal.com/wvrr.html or <A HREF="http://www.railterminal.com/wvrr.html">Click
here: West Virginia Tourist Rail Road and Railroad Museum List</A>.
For Columbus, Ohio try Getting in touch with Allen Evans. He has a small
shop with all S and a small layout. I think Allen is on this list also. You
might also try Blue Caboose Hobbies off of I-71 on Indianola Ave. Sometimes
they have a decent supply of older Flyer. Kind of hit and miss.

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18304 From: John DeFelice Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: 303 wiring
Thanks to all who responded..... I think I can assemble it the way old A.C. intended!!
John


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18305 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Poor Photos of my small layout in progress
Hi All,

Do any of you guys know where Bob can get free disk space to put up a web page? His provider doesn't offer free web building.

Thanks,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Wight
To: Timboy@...
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Poor Photos of my small layout in progress


Tim; thats a good idea. Unfourtunatly my internet provider doesnt provide us
with web space unless we pay alot. I looked a geocities and it seemed it
doesnt work. Any ideas?
Bob


>From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>
>To: "Robert Wight" <blueearthbob@...>
>Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Poor Photos of my small layout in progress
>Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:33:21 -0500
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>You have a nice little collection of accessories. If you would care to
>make a web site, I would put a link to it from my site located at:
>
>http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html
>
>I have a link telling how to create a web site. It's very easy. My site
>is getting linked with Paul's when he does a revision, so people would have
>good access to us both in the future. The link you provided wouldn't work
>on my site too well as a person would need to have access to Yahoo
>Briefcase.
>
>Regards,
>Tim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robert Wight
> To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 5:21 AM
> Subject: [S-Trains] Poor Photos of my small layout in progress
>
>
> Heres a small layout. Its still in progress. the photos are very bad.
>need
> better lighting for this toy camera. Ive added a hobo village ill get a
> photo soon. Im new at this but I beleave this link will get you to it.
>
>
> http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bobgaylord
>
> Bob Wight
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
>s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18306 From: hgetrain Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: OGR Forum Discusses S
There is a positive discussion about S gauge and the possibility that
Lionel might make new AF products similar to their scale O gauge
offerings going on on the O Gauge Railroading Forum that might be of
interest to members of this forum. Try www.ogaugerr.com and go to
their main forum. You do not have to be a member to read the messages.

Harry Eberhardt
Group: S-Trains Message: 18307 From: AF336 Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: OGR Forum Discusses S
http://www.ogaugerr.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=013352


Is a direct link to the thread for those that don't want to search for the
needle in the haystack.



----- Original Message -----
From: "hgetrain" <harry.eberhardt@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 8:33 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] OGR Forum Discusses S


> There is a positive discussion about S gauge and the possibility that
> Lionel might make new AF products similar to their scale O gauge
> offerings going on on the O Gauge Railroading Forum that might be of
> interest to members of this forum. Try www.ogaugerr.com and go to
> their main forum. You do not have to be a member to read the messages.
>
> Harry Eberhardt
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18308 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: AMMETERS
Hi,
What is the max current draw of the largest AC engine that Gilbert
made. I am looking at two meters to buy that have a 0-5 amp scale & a 0-10
amp scale. For those interested the Radio Shack #'s are 0-5 # 910-0366
the 0-10 is # 910-0367 Also a 0-30 AC Volt meter is # 910-0363 All are
about $11.00 ea. Mike S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18309 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Gilbert rocket sled prototype?
The Gilbert rocket sled, I almost forgot about that little unit. I
never had one, but I saw a few of them. At one time I thought about
buying one, but it never materialized.
Almost 40 years ago I was working as a civilian contract technical
writer for Naval Air Engineering Center at the Philadelphia Navy Yard
(now Kaeverner Shipbuilding) in the fair city at the confluence of the
Delaware and Schuylkill Rivers in southeastern Pennsylvania. I was
writing Maintenance Requirement Cards for the Short Airfield for
Tactical Support (SATS) airfields.
My duties included taking trips to Naval Air Station Lakehurst, NJ
to acquire data on the operational, test, and Marine Corps school CE1-3
catapults and M21 arresting gear that were located on the base. Off in
the woods on the base were a couple of rail lines that went about a mile
in length. The lines terminated at a concrete hardstand with deck
pendants attached to test energy absorbers (arresting gear) of all
types: shipboard and shorebased abort and overrun gear.
Anyway, rocket-powered sleds (Perhaps Gilbert prototype?) pushed
dead loads at an equal momentum with which the various aircraft of the
Navy and Marine Corps hit the arresting gear in the fleet. With maybe a
minute or two to go before the sled was started a alarm sounded, and
everybody went into the nearest blockhouse to await the spectacle that
was anticipated. I never saw one of the "locomotives" but I was there
one day when a dead load missed the deck pendant, streaked across the
hardstand, up the hill on the far side, and made toothpicks of some
trees in the forest that was there. They made pretty efficient energy
absorbers, even if they were reduced to S-Scale 2"X4"X8' lumber in the
process.
Does that give anybody ideas?
W. Thomas Boussum

"If you want bake an apple pie from scratch you must begin by creating
the universe." Carl Sagan in "Cosmos".
Group: S-Trains Message: 18310 From: aglorince Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer in Pittsburgh?
--- In S-Trains@y..., "bull_gator_1" <bull_gator_1@y...> wrote:
> Hi Group,
>
> I may be taking a temporary assignment in the Wheeling, WV area
later
> this month through mid-May. I'll have weekends free to search the
> area for Flyer goodies to add to my layout. Does anyone know any
> good hobby shops, flea markets or other sources of Flyer in the
> Pittsburgh, Wheeling, Columbus area?
>
> Thanks,
>
> BG1

div2, mcr, nmra is having a show on march 23 and 24 at castle shanon
fire hall on pa route 88 south of pittsburgh. hours 10-4 each day. i
will bethere with my american models stock.

a second show is sunday at shearton 4 corners in warren dale just
north of pittsburgh us route 19 about a mile south of pa turnpike
exit 3. hours 10-3.

another source of flyer in pittsburgh is hobbymaster on corner of
smithfield and blouvard of allies in downtown pittsburgh.

andy lorince
Group: S-Trains Message: 18311 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1377
In a message dated 03/15/2002 5:09:56 AM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> From: anormal1@...
> Subject: Re: Amp probe
>
> Hi Gale,
> Easier said than done. Have you ever tried to find an ammeter
>
> that stays in the 8 amp and lower range. .
>
Mike and all,
GC Electronics makes a 5 amp AC ammeter. They are in the $20 range. I can get
all I need here in Boise so you folks in the big market areas shouldn't have
nay trouble finding them.

Regards.....Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18312 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: 1946 322 Hudson
I would like to know once and for all time how to tell a 1946 322
Hudson from those made in other years. I am told that the 46 Hudson's
had the lettering "New York Central" on the sides of the tender. Time
after time I see Hudsons on Ebay that their descriptions say were
made in 46 but when you look it has American Flyer Lines on the
tender. Is this the main way to tell or are there other criteria by
which to judge the year of manufacture? I have one with NYC on the
sides of the tender and was told it is from 46. Thanks to all,John.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18313 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: AMMETERS
The current draw is supposed to be about 3 or less, but if you run more
than one on a track at a time, it would be more. I still would only
recommend the 0-5 amp meter. The 10 amp is not linear and the low end
of the scale where you would almost always be is compressed on the far
left of the the scale, so it's difficult to get any accuracy.


--- anormal1@... wrote:
> Hi,
> What is the max current draw of the largest AC engine that
> Gilbert
> made. I am looking at two meters to buy that have a 0-5 amp scale & a
> 0-10
> amp scale. For those interested the Radio Shack #'s are 0-5 #
> 910-0366
> the 0-10 is # 910-0367 Also a 0-30 AC Volt meter is # 910-0363 All
> are
> about $11.00 ea. Mike S.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18314 From: Alan C Udy Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Car Interior Temperatures - Potential for Damage to our Trains?
Hopefully as the train show season approaches there can be a meaningful
discussion on this topic. A lot of vintage American Flyer has warped
over the years (storage in hot attics?). Are modern materials better?

You take your armloads of prizes out to the SUV in the parking lot so you
can refill. The vehicle, whatever it is, is under a broiling sun. How
hot is it in there, and how hot can our vintage equipment and modern
equipment handle? Any good strategies for dealing with this potential
problem? How hot does it get in a UPS truck anyway?

No global warming here, just looking for those lazy days of summer again.

Alan Udy
Idaho Falls, Idaho

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18315 From: srgriggs Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: 1946 322 Hudson
Everything I have heard supports your statement that 1946 steam
locomotives had only the railroad name on the tender (no AFL or
American Flyer). Another way to tell is to look for two brass buttons
on the bottom of the die cast locomotive chassis between the drivers.
They were supposedly there to operate some type of track trip device
whose concept was evidently abandoned in 1947.

One thing I have noticed about 1946 locomotives, and it is a pity, is
that the cab and tender lettering is often very faint and non-level.
It almost looks like ACG Co was so busy trying to slap together trains
to satisfy the postwar demand that they didn't develop a fixture to
properly align everything during the marking operation. A shame
because the lettering on the 1946 models was the most prototypical.

Scott

--- In S-Trains@y..., "hcopter52" <hcopter51@a...> wrote:
> I would like to know once and for all time how to tell a 1946 322
> Hudson from those made in other years. I am told that the 46
Hudson's
> had the lettering "New York Central" on the sides of the tender.
Time
> after time I see Hudsons on Ebay that their descriptions say were
> made in 46 but when you look it has American Flyer Lines on the
> tender. Is this the main way to tell or are there other criteria by
> which to judge the year of manufacture? I have one with NYC on the
> sides of the tender and was told it is from 46. Thanks to all,John.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18316 From: Knight, Gene Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer in Pittsburgh?
Andy,

The Hobbymaster you speak of in Pittsburgh...didn't that used to be Bill and Walts? It has been years since I have been there but I know they had a good supply of AF. Maybe I will look you up in Castle Shannon :)

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: aglorince [mailto:alorince@...]
Sent: Fri 3/15/2002 2:07 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Flyer in Pittsburgh?



--- In S-Trains@y..., "bull_gator_1" <bull_gator_1@y...> wrote:
> Hi Group,
>
> I may be taking a temporary assignment in the Wheeling, WV area
later
> this month through mid-May. I'll have weekends free to search the
> area for Flyer goodies to add to my layout. Does anyone know any
> good hobby shops, flea markets or other sources of Flyer in the
> Pittsburgh, Wheeling, Columbus area?
>
> Thanks,
>
> BG1

div2, mcr, nmra is having a show on march 23 and 24 at castle shanon
fire hall on pa route 88 south of pittsburgh. hours 10-4 each day. i
will bethere with my american models stock.

a second show is sunday at shearton 4 corners in warren dale just
north of pittsburgh us route 19 about a mile south of pa turnpike
exit 3. hours 10-3.

another source of flyer in pittsburgh is hobbymaster on corner of
smithfield and blouvard of allies in downtown pittsburgh.

andy lorince


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18317 From: AF336 Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Gulp!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18318 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, March 17, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains
Group: S-Trains Message: 18319 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: rocket sled prototype
One possible prototype of the Flyer rocket sled, was basically a publicity
stunt that got lots of people talking about rockets and trains. The New
York Central RR actually mounted a military surplus jet engine on the roof
of a Budd RDC!!! They tested it out west somewhere flat. It went like a
bat out of hell but had problems with noise and exhaust. It probably had
the potential to fry a platform of commuters to cinders if it didn't deafen
them all. Of course, they had a gov't grant to do it or they never would
have spent the $$$.

Guess it was good enough for government workl!

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18320 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Gulp!!!!
And the joblot number show this was one of five sets with defective
gears, and armature. It has been on factory recall, but owner is unknown
!!!

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:47:13 -0800 "AF336" <AF336@...> writes:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1712271638
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18321 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Gulp!!!!
In a message dated 3/15/02 7:46:22 PM, AF336@... writes:

<< http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1712271638 >>

Those of you with good memories will note that this is a "second attempt". :-)

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 18322 From: Paul Yorke Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Rocket Sled Prototype
Group: S-Trains Message: 18323 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Gulp!!!!
My money is on All*dry*s to buy. Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18324 From: Tom Pennington Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: Gulp!!!!
I wish I could get someone that intent on buying when I auction
something. Sellers got to love
guys like that.

At 09:16 PM 3/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
> My money is on All*dry*s to buy. Mike
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
>s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

_---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||]
[||####### #####|______||_____
|| UNION PACIFIC __| [][] |__ ||
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| ||| | | | | | | / | 6212 # ||| |
[]|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[]
/|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\
========================================================

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18325 From: M.McConnell Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: AMMETERS
I believe the largest engine draw in amps would be a dual-motored PA,
somewhere around 5-7 amps under a moderate load (somebody correct me here -
I'm working on a comment I've heard before). In order to troubleshoot a
poorly running PA - I'm not sure the 5-amp meter would be of much help.

On the other hand, the new engines from SHS and AM would normally pull less
than 3 amps (even the dual-motored ones under a moderate load). I'm sure
Don T. can help out here.

In that case, a 5-amp meter would do the job nicely.

Michael



>Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:35:32 EST
> From: anormal1@...
>Subject: AMMETERS
>
>
> Hi,
> What is the max current draw of the largest AC engine that Gilbert
>made. I am looking at two meters to buy that have a 0-5 amp scale & a 0-10
>amp scale. For those interested the Radio Shack #'s are 0-5 # 910-0366
>the 0-10 is # 910-0367 Also a 0-30 AC Volt meter is # 910-0363 All are
>about $11.00 ea. Mike S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18326 From: Don Thompson Date: 3/15/2002
Subject: Re: AMMETERS
Dear Michael,
Yes, that is correct for the F-3s and the new F-7s. The SW's usually run about
0.3 amps.
Don

"M.McConnell" wrote:

> I believe the largest engine draw in amps would be a dual-motored PA,
> somewhere around 5-7 amps under a moderate load (somebody correct me here -
> I'm working on a comment I've heard before). In order to troubleshoot a
> poorly running PA - I'm not sure the 5-amp meter would be of much help.
>
> On the other hand, the new engines from SHS and AM would normally pull less
> than 3 amps (even the dual-motored ones under a moderate load). I'm sure
> Don T. can help out here.
>
> In that case, a 5-amp meter would do the job nicely.
>
> Michael
>
> >Message: 9
> > Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:35:32 EST
> > From: anormal1@...
> >Subject: AMMETERS
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> > What is the max current draw of the largest AC engine that Gilbert
> >made. I am looking at two meters to buy that have a 0-5 amp scale & a 0-10
> >amp scale. For those interested the Radio Shack #'s are 0-5 # 910-0366
> >the 0-10 is # 910-0367 Also a 0-30 AC Volt meter is # 910-0363 All are
> >about $11.00 ea. Mike S.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 18327 From: roberte613@aol.com Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Re: Hydrocal vs. Plaster
I've used both for various applications over the years, but ultimately
settled on Water Putty. Cheap, easy to use, light, strong enough for anything
I've ever used it for. We lift the Water Putty mountain off of our Christmas
layout and store it away with no fuss no muss. Great stuff.

Robert Ellis

>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18328 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Re: Identifying locomotives
Dear Scott:
I didn't see any serious responses so here is one.

Steam in 2002 depends on the local crowd. When you see live steam, just ask
and you WILL be informed....
Most of the stuffed and mounted steam still has an indication of the
RR it came from. Then you can look it up by wheel arrangement and RR. J.
David Conrad's book lists all LIVE locomotives. It might also include the
park and dead museum locomotives. (Stuffed and mounted.)
The best thing about the stuffed and mounted locos is they can be
resuscitated -- with enough time, effort, and money.

For diesels you will need two books, both by Kalmbach. The used to be
called "The Second Diesel Spotter's Guide" and "The Diesel Spotter's
Update". These are still available only Kalmbach has updated the second and
changed both titles. These will correctly identify all FACTORY diesels,
including many, many that are extinct.
I say FACTORY as shops love to tinker. (Example: 2154 is a GP-7 and
her long hood got smashed. She is otherwise OK. 4486 is a GP-9. 4486 is
going to be in the shop for weeks and her long hood is off. The GP-7 and
GP-9 hoods have the same mounting points. Let's put 4486's hood on 2154 and
get her back on the road! We can scrounge for a hood for 4486 later.) And
then there are the rebuild programs which include GP-10, GP-11, SD40-3, and
CF-7. Ya gotta have a gen-u-whine roster for some of these.
But the books work for 90% of what is out there. Of course, it is
that other 10% that is really the interesting stuff...

Happy spotting!
Thorin

Message: 23
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 06:47:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...>
Subject: Identifying locomotives

Can anybody recommend a web site or a book that has diagrams or
pictures of steam and diesel locomotives for the purposes of
identifying them? Something akin to the silhouette identification
charts used in the military to identify enemy planes and ships?

When I see a train go by I never have the vaguest idea what the engine is.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18329 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: the purpose of old s gaugians
Going through my stack of magazines again I came across a motor tester that
works without the tender in the Jan./Feb. '94 issue. I spent the afternoon
soldering. My seven year old and I headed to the junkpile this evening.
Dang, two Pacifics and an Atlantic chassis are alive again! Too much fun!
The 360 is still dead. Oh well. Total cost $21.

If Shawn Solderitch is on this list or someone knows him, thanks a lot. The
directions were clear and easy to follow.

Cheers,
Jacques
Group: S-Trains Message: 18330 From: M.McConnell Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Re: AMMETERS
3.25 amps - that's all?? Well, I guess I now have something to do for
tomorrow. . .

*sigh*

Michael


At 11:21 PM 3/15/2002 -0800, David Dewey wrote:
>I suspect if your dual-motor Alco is pulling 7 amps, you need a rebushing
>job, or a new set of gears. Factory specs call for a three-unit Alco dual
>motor/horn set to draw no more than 3.25 amps at 12 volts pulling 4
>passenger cars.
>S'
>David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18331 From: ron inscho Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Re: rocket sled prototype
This is not too likely as the Budd car test took place in the summer of 1966
at Stryker Ohio on a 20 Mi. long straight track. The rocket sled had it's
origin in the military & space programs of the early & mid 50's This is how
what was to be the first of the ICBM missles were launched from rail
----- Original Message -----
From: <jarcho@...>
To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 8:10 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] rocket sled prototype


> One possible prototype of the Flyer rocket sled, was basically a publicity
> stunt that got lots of people talking about rockets and trains. The New
> York Central RR actually mounted a military surplus jet engine on the roof
> of a Budd RDC!!! They tested it out west somewhere flat. It went like a
> bat out of hell but had problems with noise and exhaust. It probably had
> the potential to fry a platform of commuters to cinders if it didn't
deafen
> them all. Of course, they had a gov't grant to do it or they never would
> have spent the $$$.
>
> Guess it was good enough for government workl!
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18332 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Water Putty ???
Water putty ??

I know about window Putty and body putty for cars. But water putty for scenery?
I give up. Exactly what is this stuff? How long does it take to set? What is the
cost compared to plaster? What is its consistency? Watery or thick? Is it carvable
after it sets? does it crack easily?
Where is it available? Are you referring to the premixed plaster crack filler?
Roger Hinds
roberte613@... wrote:

> I've used both for various applications over the years, but ultimately
> settled on Water Putty. Cheap, easy to use, light, strong enough for anything
> I've ever used it for. We lift the Water Putty mountain off of our Christmas
> layout and store it away with no fuss no muss. Great stuff.
>
> Robert Ellis
>
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18333 From: roy inman Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Unsubscribe
Please unsubscribe me from the list.
Roy Inman
Group: S-Trains Message: 18334 From: Tom Young Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] RE: AMMETERS]
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] RE: AMMETERS
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:16:04 -0500
From: Tom Young <TYoung5@...>
To: S-Trains <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315232654.01c6ec68@...>



I added two 0-5 ammeters to my layout last year, the Radio Shack
#910-366. I did order the 10 amp model first, but it's not necessary and
a bit harder to read due to the markings being very close (a younger
pair of eyes would help).
The 5 amp is perfect for our needs I think. I run my dual motor 360 PA
pulling 4 aluminum 600 series passenger cars all lit up and it uses no
more than 4 amps at 18 volts. At normal speeds it's only drawing about 3
amps. So if I ever saw the need for for an ammeter over 5 amps, I can be
sure that somethings wrong with this engine.
Also it's hard to get a good reading from a 10 amp model (Radio Shack's)
running newer S-Helper or AM engines with the markings being so crammed
together.
Tom

M.McConnell wrote:

>I believe the largest engine draw in amps would be a dual-motored PA,
>somewhere around 5-7 amps under a moderate load (somebody correct me here -
>I'm working on a comment I've heard before). In order to troubleshoot a
>poorly running PA - I'm not sure the 5-amp meter would be of much help.
>
>On the other hand, the new engines from SHS and AM would normally pull less
>than 3 amps (even the dual-motored ones under a moderate load). I'm sure
>Don T. can help out here.
>
>In that case, a 5-amp meter would do the job nicely.
>
>Michael
>
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18335 From: David Dewey Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Does this mean Yahoo will be back up in time for our chat??
I suspect we may have a problem, Huston!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18336 From: Paul Yorke Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Current Sensor - 'The Detective'
I recent purchased a current sensor. It comes in the
form of a small (1.25 x 2 in.) circuit board. It uses
a small donut shaped componant to sense current in a
wire that is threaded through it. In other words you
wire that is feeding power to the track is not
connected to this gizmo. (see the diagram/picture
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/diagram/detective.html
)
This works on DC or AC powered trains, and the board
runs on AC or DC. It has a normally open circuit and a
normally closed one. It has a 2 second delay on the
release side to prevent the relay from droping out
prematurely due to dirty track or loss of current.
This should help with all kinds of animation, turnout
control, signal lights, and feedback indicators.
Joe's Train Repair is selling them.
They sell for about $20.


=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18337 From: David Dewey Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Re: AMMETERS
I suspect if your dual-motor Alco is pulling 7 amps, you need a rebushing
job, or a new set of gears. Factory specs call for a three-unit Alco dual
motor/horn set to draw no more than 3.25 amps at 12 volts pulling 4
passenger cars.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18338 From: Robert Wight Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Yahoo trouble?
Am I the only one or do I have a virus? Everytime I log onto Yahoo home
page, Yahoo mail. Or our S-train group my browerser locks up tight. Then i
have to use ctr. alt. delt. to close the browser. If i log onto anything
else on the net I have no problems. Any ideas. So far it looks like the
sunday meet is out for me because it locks that up also. Thanks.
Bob Wight


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 18339 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: S-trains chat room working at 5 pm est..
Carl and I verified that the chat room is functioning, so we expect to
see all of you there tonight at 8 pm sharp!

Later.......Chuck
Group: S-Trains Message: 18340 From: Dick Kuepper Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Sorry, guys - this stupid site won't accept the ID I've used for 3+ years.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 8:02 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Reminder - Sunday Chat


>
> We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.
>
> Sunday Chat
>
> Date: Sunday, March 17, 2002
> Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)
>
> Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page
> http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains
>
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18341 From: Dale Smith Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Re: 1946 322 Hudson
Another difference between 1946 and 1947 Hudsons is in the valve gear
rivets. On a 1946 model they will be round. 1947's have hex head valve
gear rivets. Refer to page 66-67 in the latest Greenberg guide by Joe Deger
for further details.

Dale Smith
Pacifica, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 12:43 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] 1946 322 Hudson


> I would like to know once and for all time how to tell a 1946 322
> Hudson from those made in other years. I am told that the 46 Hudson's
> had the lettering "New York Central" on the sides of the tender. Time
> after time I see Hudsons on Ebay that their descriptions say were
> made in 46 but when you look it has American Flyer Lines on the
> tender. Is this the main way to tell or are there other criteria by
> which to judge the year of manufacture? I have one with NYC on the
> sides of the tender and was told it is from 46. Thanks to all,John.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18342 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: S-trains Chat Room working at 5 pm est...
Carl and I verified that the chat room is functioning, so we expect to
see all of you there tonight at 8 pm sharp!

Later.......Chuck
Group: S-Trains Message: 18343 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: #769 Aircraft Beacon
Hi,

I have a #769 Aircraft Beacon and of course, the top won't rotate. There was a little discussion about this a couple months ago. I cut the impeller fins larger for more surface area, cleaned everything up perfectly, made sure the rotating top is balanced and the unit sits level. I even ground out some prongs in the plastic lenses to reduced the weight by a few milligrams. It's very close to rotating on it's own. It will go for quite a while if I nudge it. Maybe a stronger dimpled lamp that gives off more heat (if there is such a thing) from one of our parts dealers? Someone once fed an airhose up and powered the top with an air pump. Pretty resourceful, actually. I hooked it up to my 30b for a little more juice to the lamp hoping it would burn hotter. Any more ideas on making this accessory work better?

Thanks,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18344 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Rail King Operating Station
This is a good platform station with S scale people.
They disapear when the train pulls out. Has anyone
set it up. I am running DC. I was wondering if this
would work. Thanks Jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18345 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Re: 769 Beacon
For my 769, I've found that it helps to flair out the skirts (sort of fin like) on the bottom to let in a bit more air. After that adjust and re adjust the top fins. Mine does work better when the trains run, the vibration makes the top rock just a bit and that seems to help. With no train running, I can tap on the table and get it to start.


---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18346 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/17/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, March 17, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains
Group: S-Trains Message: 18347 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: 769 Beacon
Hi,

I've noticed that it moves more when the trains pass also. Must be the vibration.

Thanks,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: JFrederick Roberts
To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 11:12 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: 769 Beacon


For my 769, I've found that it helps to flair out the skirts (sort of fin like) on the bottom to let in a bit more air. After that adjust and re adjust the top fins. Mine does work better when the trains run, the vibration makes the top rock just a bit and that seems to help. With no train running, I can tap on the table and get it to start.


---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18348 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: Rail King Operating Station
I have one and it works well. I power it from a 12B. Running DC for
power should not preclude using AC for accessories. The device uses a
simple solenoid that is only powered when you're pushing the button so
it should also work on DC. It's even about the right roof height for
S. They also made a freight platform with crates instead of people.

JAMES SLEETH wrote:
>
> This is a good platform station with S scale people.
> They disapear when the train pulls out. Has anyone
> set it up. I am running DC. I was wondering if this
> would work. Thanks Jim Sleeth
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
> http://sports.yahoo.com/
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18349 From: rfgiardina Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: New Part Suggestions
We are looking for your help in suggesting any parts that we don't
make that you have not been able to find. AF "S", "HO" or "O".
Plastic or metal parts.

also

There may be items we could produce, but we don't have usable
samples. We would appreciate any original samples of parts you would
like produced, even if they are broken. We can return any samples,
and will compensate, with a free part, those that we use and produce.

www.rfgco.com

RFG
Group: S-Trains Message: 18350 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1379
I can't say much about the station but
you can buy 12 MTH S scale people for
$19.00 which is the best price yet
for S scale painted figures.

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn

Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:50:12 -0800 (PST)
From: JAMES SLEETH <aztecfan@...>
Subject: Rail King Operating Station

This is a good platform station with S scale people.
They disapear when the train pulls out. Has anyone
set it up. I am running DC. I was wondering if this
would work. Thanks Jim Sleeth
Group: S-Trains Message: 18351 From: crustyfour Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: Rail King Operating Station
John Rogers had one set up with our Atlantic Coast S Gaugers modular
layout this weekend. It looks very nice and the kids were amazed
when the people disappeared. The only problem I saw was that
occasisionally the people would not re-appear on command. Sometimes
the got stuck in the up position and needed a little coaxing.

Steve Blancard

--- In S-Trains@y..., JAMES SLEETH <aztecfan@y...> wrote:
> This is a good platform station with S scale people.
> They disapear when the train pulls out. Has anyone
> set it up. I am running DC. I was wondering if this
> would work. Thanks Jim Sleeth
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
> http://sports.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18352 From: crustyfour Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: New Part Suggestions
--- In S-Trains@y..., "rfgiardina" <rfgiardina@y...> wrote:
> We are looking for your help in suggesting any parts that we don't
> make that you have not been able to find. AF "S", "HO" or "O".
> Plastic or metal parts.
>
> RFG

snip

How about replacement front pilots WITH a front coupler for the
popular steamers such as the 28x through 33x series. I know this is
not original but it could be simple bolt-in change over to allow
running double headers. Can you picture the sight of two or three
Pacifics pulling a long consist over Sherman Hill? Wow! I'm thinking
of making my own but would gladly buy a few of them if they were
comercially produced.

Would anyone else like to see these?

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 18353 From: Horn, David Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: I'm a Rocket (sled) Man.....
Dr. John Paul (Col.) Stapp, surgeon, former Air Force Officer earned the
title "The Fastest Man Alive" when he rode the famed "Sonic Wind I"
rocket-propelled sled on December 10, 1954 to a land record speed of 632 mph
in 5 seconds. Dr. Stapp sustained the greatest g-force endured by man in
recorded deceleration tests up to that time. He took 29 grueling rocket
sled rides in the 1950s, proving human beings could withstand more than 40
times the force of gravity. The experiments studied the effects of
mechanical force on living tissues.
http://www.zianet.com/space/stapp.html

http://www.flatoday.com/space/explore/stories/1999b/111899k.htm

Add to Paul's joy rides the use of sleds to test ejection seats, and viola,
you have plenty of material for 25515 play time. Have fun. Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 18354 From: Horn, David Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: what a ride
A good description of Stapp's rocket sled ride (in his own words). Ahhh,
those were the "cowboy" days of aerospace.

"It felt as though my eyes were being pulled out of my head.... I lifted my
eyelids with my fingers, but I couldn't see a thing.... They put me on a
stretcher, and in a minute or two I ..."

http://www.afa.org/magazine/valor/0583valor.html

Now don't you all go buy 25515's and drive prices up. I haven't bought one
yet!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18355 From: Gill W. Lott Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: I'm a Rocket (sled) Man.....
For all of you jet sledders, the former Imperial Russian Army base located in the pinelands of central New Jersey, is the site of four (4) sled tracks that are still operational. This link will take you to an ariel view of the tracks (please notice that they are two (2) rail tracks!)

http://www.lakehurst.navy.mil/pic23.gif

This link will take you to the photo image directory of the Naval Air Engineering Center, Lakehurst, New Jersey that operates the sleds and maintains the historical home of US Navy Airships!!!

http://www.lakehurst.navy.mil/nlweb/directory-imagelibrary1.htm

References to the Russians aren't readily found nor is the fact that the US Army controlled the base until the Naval Air Station, Lakehurst was established.

This link will take you to the historical society that is attempting to preserve the memories and facts of the Airship contributions to national defense.

http://www.nlhs.com/

I was able to rescue my 'Flyers' from the parental attic while stationed at NATTC Lakehurst during the Bicentennial.
So does my association with St Gilbert, his trains and erector sets combine with my love of the airship equate to my great appreciation for Led Zeppelin??!!!

Have a great week, TSNSITM!

>>> "Horn, David" <david.horn@...> 3/18/02 10:44:38 AM >>>
Dr. John Paul (Col.) Stapp, surgeon, former Air Force Officer earned the
title "The Fastest Man Alive" when he rode the famed "Sonic Wind I"
rocket-propelled sled on December 10, 1954 to a land record speed of 632 mph
in 5 seconds. Dr. Stapp sustained the greatest g-force endured by man in
recorded deceleration tests up to that time. He took 29 grueling rocket
sled rides in the 1950s, proving human beings could withstand more than 40
times the force of gravity. The experiments studied the effects of
mechanical force on living tissues.
http://www.zianet.com/space/stapp.html

http://www.flatoday.com/space/explore/stories/1999b/111899k.htm

Add to Paul's joy rides the use of sleds to test ejection seats, and viola,
you have plenty of material for 25515 play time. Have fun. Dave



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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Group: S-Trains Message: 18356 From: af21115 Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: AH... Truth In Advertising. E-Bay Funny
Group: S-Trains Message: 18357 From: bassflyer Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: "Torpedo Jones"---by Hot Wheels
I uploaded a pic of a new Hot Wheel at the S-Trains site,..just click
on photos and find Torpedo Jones. Based on the ol' time race cars
from the early 1900's. You might have seen the earliar one put out by
Hot Wheels,..it was a little more authentic. Now that I compare the
two, Torpedo Jones may be based on a "newer" car then the other.


The driver is a little small for S-scale,...I think too small for the
car,...however he does pop out. Wheels are a little funky. These two
cars could be used for a car show or museum on your layout. Either
way,..not bad cars for under a buck each!!

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18358 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: New Part Suggestions
YES!!!

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: crustyfour
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 10:11 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: New Part Suggestions


--- In S-Trains@y..., "rfgiardina" <rfgiardina@y...> wrote:
> We are looking for your help in suggesting any parts that we don't
> make that you have not been able to find. AF "S", "HO" or "O".
> Plastic or metal parts.
>
> RFG

snip

How about replacement front pilots WITH a front coupler for the
popular steamers such as the 28x through 33x series. I know this is
not original but it could be simple bolt-in change over to allow
running double headers. Can you picture the sight of two or three
Pacifics pulling a long consist over Sherman Hill? Wow! I'm thinking
of making my own but would gladly buy a few of them if they were
comercially produced.

Would anyone else like to see these?

Steve Blancard


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18359 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: plastic structural shapes
Hi Guy "S"
I need help in finding a manufacture of plastic structural shapes.
I think the one I am looking for is Plastyrene. I know about Plastruct and
Evergreen.
I need Plastic I beams 3/8" high and 1/8" wide 14" long. Light weight plastic, not
the heavy
duty gray plastic stuff.
I saw the material in a hobby shop. Item # 279 2 pieces per package.
The hobby shop had only one package.
I need 8 packages. I would have ordered, but I won't be back in his area for a
while.
I need these in a hurry because of my time frame of my project. I hope I don't have
to make
the I beams out of wood.

I need the I beams for my model of the Frankinstien Trestle.

Thanks in advance for any help.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18360 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: New Part Suggestions
A replacement front pilot With working couplers is a great idea. I would love this
for my AF streamers.

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 18361 From: Tom Pennington Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: New Part Suggestions
Fantastic Idea, I would equip all mine in a heartbeat!!!

At 01:06 PM 3/18/02 -0500, Tim Brown wrote:
>YES!!!
>
>-Tim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: crustyfour
> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 10:11 AM
> Subject: [S-Trains] Re: New Part Suggestions
>
>
> --- In S-Trains@y..., "rfgiardina" <rfgiardina@y...> wrote:
> > We are looking for your help in suggesting any parts that we don't
> > make that you have not been able to find. AF "S", "HO" or "O".
> > Plastic or metal parts.
> >
> > RFG
>
> snip
>
> How about replacement front pilots WITH a front coupler for the
> popular steamers such as the 28x through 33x series. I know this is
> not original but it could be simple bolt-in change over to allow
> running double headers. Can you picture the sight of two or three
> Pacifics pulling a long consist over Sherman Hill? Wow! I'm thinking
> of making my own but would gladly buy a few of them if they were
> comercially produced.
>
> Would anyone else like to see these?
>
> Steve Blancard
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
>s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

_---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||]
[||####### #####|______||_____
|| UNION PACIFIC __| [][] |__ ||
||_______________________/ _| UP |___\_||
| ||| | | | | | | / | 6212 # ||| |
[]|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[]
/|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\
========================================================

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18362 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Structural parts
Hi again;
Does Evergreen Scale Models have a web site or toll free phone number?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18363 From: af21115 Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: New Part Suggestions
Plastic Sheds to the later towers and 23601 & 23602 crossing gates.

HO Hudson Trailing Trucks

Cloth covered wire

HO freight car sprung truck sides.

HO later plastic Varney style tank car chassis

S plastic tank car chassis - both types cradle and plain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18364 From: Rhett T. George Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: DC motors
- Greeting`S' -

Jim Sleeth asked a great question. It leads to another, maybe not so
great, question. Are there any new production accessories (or locos)
that use AC motors (induction motors such as the talking stations or
vibrator motors such as the cattle yard)?

Cheer`S'
Rhett
Group: S-Trains Message: 18365 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: Rail King Operating Station
--- crustyfour <splitdorf@...> wrote:
> The only problem I saw was that occasisionally the people would not
re-appear on command. Sometimes the got stuck in the up position and
needed a little coaxing.

I have the same problem and it seems to be a case of the plastic
warping just like the new plasticville stuff warps and catching on the
post. I've tried bending it but it just goes back to where it was. I
suppose the only thing to try next is cutting the piece that catches off.

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18366 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: what a ride
-- "Horn, David" <david.horn@...> wrote:
> Now don't you all go buy 25515's and drive prices up. I haven't
> bought one yet!

One just went on Ebay for $95.

http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=1712558679

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18367 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: Rail King Operating Station
-Anyone have a picture of this station? I would like to see it.
Thanks,John.




-- In S-Trains@y..., Scott Holm <imsscott@y...> wrote:
> --- crustyfour <splitdorf@1...> wrote:
> > The only problem I saw was that occasisionally the people would
not
> re-appear on command. Sometimes the got stuck in the up position
and
> needed a little coaxing.
>
> I have the same problem and it seems to be a case of the plastic
> warping just like the new plasticville stuff warps and catching on
the
> post. I've tried bending it but it just goes back to where it was. I
> suppose the only thing to try next is cutting the piece that
catches off.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
> http://sports.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18368 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: Rail King Operating Station
Hi,

I haven't seen it yet, but could the part that's warping be reinforced with some ribs and glue?

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Holm
To: s-trains
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: Rail King Operating Station


--- crustyfour <splitdorf@...> wrote:
> The only problem I saw was that occasisionally the people would not
re-appear on command. Sometimes the got stuck in the up position and
needed a little coaxing.

I have the same problem and it seems to be a case of the plastic
warping just like the new plasticville stuff warps and catching on the
post. I've tried bending it but it just goes back to where it was. I
suppose the only thing to try next is cutting the piece that catches off.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18369 From: gino restivo Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: part suggestions ?
most of these parts have been made such as

crossing gates ,
ho hudsun trailng trks ,
ho sprung trk side's ,
cloth covered wire( for loco to tndr ) ,
split tank car chassis " S " ,this is a current
lionel / flyer part

have you tried all of the dealers for them ?
if there not in anyones stock E-Mail me
off list

gino / GSR




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18370 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Anyone got an email address for Steve Amatto?
Just wondering if anyone has an email address for Steve Amatto of Hobby
Surplus Sales. I have a couple of questions to ask him, and it seems
difficult to get a hold of anyone at HSS, other than the order desk...

Thanks.....Chuck
Group: S-Trains Message: 18371 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Ammeter
Hello Group,

I stopped by RadioShack at lunch today and picked up the 22-602 clamp-
on AC ammeter. It also is a multimeter reading AC voltage, DC
voltage, AC current, DC current and resistance. I tried it out when
I got home (after finding a AAA battery - battery not included!).
My "junker" 283 pulled 1.5 amps alone and 1.9 uphill pulling four
gondolas loaded with logs. My 742 (under restoration) handcar pulled
1.0 amps. I buffed the dirt off all four pickup wheels and it still
pulls 1.0 amps and runs slow. Back to work on the 742 I guess. I'll
try my other engines sometime when I feel like taking the down and
putting them on the test track.

Thanks to everyone who chimed in with recommendations on the ammeter
thread. BTW: the 22-602 is on sale at RadioShack through the end of
this month. Regular price is $16.99 - sale price is $12.99. You get
the meter, a nice set of leads and a nice plastic carrying case -
battery not inlcuded!

BG1
Group: S-Trains Message: 18372 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Lead Sled (was Re: I'm a Rocket (sled) Man.....)
Gill asks:
>So does my association with St. Gilbert, his trains and erector sets
combined with my love of >the airship equate to my great appreciation for
Led Zeppelin??!!!

It's not really Led, Gill. It's Whyte metal.

Now, does this also answer the sillouhette question?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18373 From: rj4010d Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: repro parts
Would be interested in several pilots with couplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 18374 From: Mike Vana Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: New Part Suggestions
"rfgiardina" <rfgiardina@...> wrote:

We are looking for your help in suggesting any parts that we don't
make that you have not been able to find. AF "S", "HO" or "O".
Plastic or metal parts.

My suggestion:

Railings for 654 and 954 observation cars, and the ones without
one side for the 978

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18375 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: New Part Suggestions
I'm in!

Tom Pennington wrote:

> Fantastic Idea, I would equip all mine in a heartbeat!!!
>
> At 01:06 PM 3/18/02 -0500, Tim Brown wrote:
> >YES!!!
> >
> >-Tim
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: crustyfour
> > To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 10:11 AM
> > Subject: [S-Trains] Re: New Part Suggestions
> >
> >
> > --- In S-Trains@y..., "rfgiardina" <rfgiardina@y...> wrote:
> > > We are looking for your help in suggesting any parts that we don't
> > > make that you have not been able to find. AF "S", "HO" or "O".
> > > Plastic or metal parts.
> > >
> > > RFG
> >
> > snip
> >
> > How about replacement front pilots WITH a front coupler for the
> > popular steamers such as the 28x through 33x series. I know this is
> > not original but it could be simple bolt-in change over to allow
> > running double headers. Can you picture the sight of two or three
> > Pacifics pulling a long consist over Sherman Hill? Wow! I'm thinking
> > of making my own but would gladly buy a few of them if they were
> > comercially produced.
> >
> > Would anyone else like to see these?
> >
> > Steve Blancard
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> >s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||]
> [||####### #####|______||_____
> || UNION PACIFIC __| [][] |__ ||
> ||_______________________/ _| UP |___\_||
> | ||| | | | | | | / | 6212 # ||| |
> []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[]
> /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\
> ========================================================
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18376 From: Mike Vana Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Doubleheading AF Steam
For suggestions for new parts, Steve Blancard wrote:

How about replacement front pilots WITH a front coupler for the
popular steamers such as the 28x through 33x series.


My solution, since I was young, is to use rubber bands. The lead
locomotive has to have a knuckle coupler, so one can slip one
end of the rubber band between the weight and the coupler. The
other end goes around the pilot of the trailing locomotive.
It also works for a mid-train helper, as long as the car ahead
of the helper locomotive also has a knuckle coupler.

I don't recommend rear helpers because the engine will push the
cars ahead of it off the track. If it's pulling as much of a
load as its pushes, it works out pretty well. This is from
much experience in running 25 car freights, where even around 60
inch radius curves, cars toward the front have a tendency to get
pulled off the track. A mid-train helper helped to eliminate
those problems. Of course couplers mounted on cars instead
of the trucks handle much better, including backing up, but AF
didn't do that.

Rubber bands also work well when knuckle coupler cars keep
uncoupling, and you want to keep running the train instead
of stopping to work on cars. Just slip them around the weights
until you want to uncouple them.

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18377 From: Steve Blancard Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Bachmann ON30 Gondola conversion
I just finished converting a Bachmann ON30 gondola to S Flyer. I've
been wanting to do this for a while and finally picked one up. It was
very easy, took me all of about 45 minutes. I took the easy way and
used standard Flyer knuckle coupler trucks from a beat up Flyer
gondola. I'm sure other trucks good be used such as ACE or S-Helper and
they would look better. But I wanted to keep it simple and maintain the
Flyer look because I will be using it with my Franklin set.

Here's what I did:

1. Remove the Flyer trucks from the donor by drilling out the rivets.
2. Remove the ON30 trucks by removing the retaining screw.
3. With a Dremel cut-off saw, cut off the coupler boxes on the bottom of
the Bachmann, flush with the base.
4. Drill out the pivot hole in the Flyer trucks with a 5/32 drill bit.
This allows the truck to fit over the Bachmann bolster. Be sure to
de-burr the hole.
5. Put one #6 flat washer on the bolster, then the Flyer truck, then two
#6 flat washers on the truck over the bolster.
6. Reinstall the original Bachmann truck pivot screw.

That's it! It's been running perectly on my layout for over an hour
now. The Bachmann On30 cars are nicely detailed and seem to be just the
right size for the Franklin. And to top it off, they are very
reasonably priced at under $20 for freight cars and a few dollars more
for the old time coaches.

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 18378 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Second Generation Can Motors
S-'n-S Trains now has available another version of the very successful can
motor that we have been selling for the past year. This is the same motor of
9,500 RPM at 12v but the worm screw is a single lead instead of a dual lead.
This reduces the gear ratio to about half of the original motor. What is
rally good about it is the ability to run at more prototypical speeds while
keeping the voltage up to the reverse unit coil and the smoke/headlight unit.
That translates into slower operating speed but more smoke and brighter
headlight.

We are offering an introductory price special until the 30th of April. The
DC version will sell for $23.95 and the AC version for $27.95.

The price will revert to the normal $27.95 DC and $33.95 AC on May first.

We are really in love with this version. I ran a 293 on the Club layout over
the weekend and it was able to run at transformer break over (8B) and still
send puffs of smoke on every cycle of the piston.
Puff................................................puff......................

..............................puff. etc. Seemed to take forever to get around
the shortest loop on the layout too.

This introductory is available through us and our dealers.

Thanks.....Steve & Sam
Group: S-Trains Message: 18379 From: fahrwud Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Cloth-covered wire
Shot in the dark from the newbie here.....

Noticed a few posts regarding cloth-covered wire. I assume this is
for older-run locomotives, accessories and perhaps some vintage
restoration efforts on older transformers?
Tom & Dottie Batchelor run an auto restoration specialty company in
Reno, NV. They stock all manner of vintage/repro automobile items
including the hard-to-find cloth-covered wire. Hope this helps.
Someone has previously mentioned Boeing B-17s in these
pages......this establishment supplies genuine leather helmets and
flying goggles if youse feel so inclined.....
Restoration Supply Co
2060 Palisade Dr. Reno NV 98509.
Ph 775-825-5663
FAX 775-825-9330
restoration@...

Regards,
Dave W.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18380 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: New part suggestions
I would like to see replacement armature bearings for steam locos. A lot
of them are getting worn out out there. I would like them to be exact
copies of the originals with the four little ridges, so they could just be
inserted rather than glued in place. The little ones in the 3 digit brush
mount are the most urgently needed.

I would also like to see a kit for replacing the fiber boards in the diesel
motor brush mount. This would consist of two fiber boards with proper
slots and holes, and a replacement rivet. The metal part of the brush
mount is usually found intact, but the larger board is warped and the holes
in the smaller piece often torn. No need to replace the entire mount.

Also, a replacement tongue for the diesel roar oscillator. I have seen and
owned many roar units in which this part broke. This is a pretty
complicated part if I remember correctly -- 2 contacts and a weight.

Finally, how about an inexpensive plastic kit for New Haven RR styled
catenary towers?

I am not at all interested in double heading locos unless they are wired
together to operate off the same reverse unit.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18381 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: Rail King Operating Station
--- hcopter52 <hcopter51@...> wrote:
> -Anyone have a picture of this station? I would like to see it.
> Thanks,John.

Here is one up for auction with a picture:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1714362201

The problem is with the arm that is supposed to come down between the
signs in the middle of the platform. The signs are slightly warped and
the arm bumps into the top edge of one of them on the way down. It
might be possible to wedge something in between the signs to hold them
far enough apart so the arm will miss them. The problem with this
approach is that whatever is wedged in would have to be all the way at
the bottom and at the back so as not to interfere with the arm which
when down takes up almost all the space between the signs.



__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18382 From: Hannon Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: R.F.G.: New Parts Suggestions
Dear RFG:

Here's my Christmas wish list:

1. An unlimited supply of drum/barrel style commutators
for AF Diesels (XA12A062 type).

2. Steamer replacement brushes that measure a full
5/32" O.D. (Shouldered and Slotted; same copper/
carbon ratio as originals).

3. An unlimited supply of reasonably priced bead bearings
for diesel armatures.

4. An unlimited supply of reasonably priced armature bearings for
for steamer motor chassis / brush bracket.

5. An unlimited supply of reasonably priced finger units
(upper and lower) to fit Pre-war and immediate postwar
American Flyer O-Gauge reverse units.

6. An unlimited supply of reasonably priced reverse drums
to fit Pre-war and immediate postwar American
Flyer reverse units (O-Gauge & S-Gauge).

7. An unlimited supply of reasonably priced 100 microfarad
non-electrolytic capacitors 24 (min) W.V.D.C.

8. An unlimited supply of reasonably priced Gilbert (original design)
Dynamic Speakers. (The later ones too).

9. An unlimited supply of reasonably priced track trips (pressure type
and original Gilbert design).

10. An unlimited supply of armature shafts, laminations and insulators
to construct Super Motors (so everyone can afford to have at least one
Super Motor on their layout).

11. An unlimited supply of reasonably priced diesel power trucks with
oilite bearings/bushings (complete with original part number stamped
on inside of chassis).

12. A partridge in a pear tree.

No rush. But ... I just unpacked my Christmas stocking and it's
hanging by the fireplace.

Thanks,

Bob Hannon

P.S.

Oh, did I forget to mention ...

13. "World Peace"?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18383 From: Doug Peck Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: (S-Trains) MTH Stations, and wire
(1) We have the cloth-covered wire available, identical to original.

(2) You can view both the MTH Freight and Passenger Stations on our website.
We have both in stock.

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supplies
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours - Weekday Evenings from 7:00 PM to 9:30 PM
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-Free; orders only, please)
<http://www.portlines.com/>
Doug@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 18384 From: rfgiardina Date: 3/18/2002
Subject: Re: New part suggestions
We make the diesel spring holder, fiber board and eyelet, they are
listed in the diesel sections of our Online and printed catalog.

RFG

--- In S-Trains@y..., jarcho@r... wrote:
> I would like to see replacement armature bearings for steam locos.
A lot
> of them are getting worn out out there. I would like them to be
exact
> copies of the originals with the four little ridges, so they could
just be
> inserted rather than glued in place. The little ones in the 3
digit brush
> mount are the most urgently needed.
>
> I would also like to see a kit for replacing the fiber boards in
the diesel
> motor brush mount. This would consist of two fiber boards with
proper
> slots and holes, and a replacement rivet. The metal part of the
brush
> mount is usually found intact, but the larger board is warped and
the holes
> in the smaller piece often torn. No need to replace the entire
mount.
>
> Also, a replacement tongue for the diesel roar oscillator. I have
seen and
> owned many roar units in which this part broke. This is a pretty
> complicated part if I remember correctly -- 2 contacts and a weight.
>
> Finally, how about an inexpensive plastic kit for New Haven RR
styled
> catenary towers?
>
> I am not at all interested in double heading locos unless they are
wired
> together to operate off the same reverse unit.
>
> Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18386 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: Re: Can motors & video update
Hi Guys, great news. Have you done any draw bar testing with the new
motor? Can you make a comparison between the stock motors and the yours?
Thanks,
Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: boss31@... [mailto:boss31@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 1:32 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Can motors & video update




+

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 18387 From: Horn, David Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: replacement part
Ball bearings for axles in Flyer diesels and steamers would be what I'd like
to buy. Next would be some way to have them at the fore and aft positions
of steamers armatures! Hey, it's the old slot car racer coming out in me.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18388 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: 654 doors
I am repairing a 654.The rear doors are gone.The bulkhead with two hinged
doors doesn't fit.Are there cars with nonoperating removable doors?If so are
the doors available?


Keith


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 18389 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: Re: New Part Suggestions
> "rfgiardina" <rfgiardina@...> wrote:
>

How about boiler fronts for the Washington and Franklin engines? I
understand that whoever was making these, isn't any more and that they
aren't available? And going one further, how about making ones that
have a bulb bracket and a real lens so that a working headlight can be
added to these engines?

Speaking of bulb brackets, how about reproducing the headlight bulb
bracket bulb bracket for a 21004?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18390 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: 654 doors
I am repairing a 654.The rear doors are gone.The bulkhead with two hinged
doors doesn't fit.Are there cars with nonoperating removable doors?If so are
the doors available?


Keith


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 18391 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: New people, new trains
Boyz:
There are a lot of new train sets available with highly detailed locomotives
and passenger consists and all sorts of goodies. There's a lot of
excitement about it all among youngsters, people under 20! Model
railroading as a hobby is far from dead. It has a whole new following.
Please follow this link, have a look-see and then post back here with your
observations. If you don't get it right away, don't worry. All will be
clear soon enough.

http://www.trainartisan.com/

Chris Zizzo


P.S.- Caig order is in. 34 respondents so far + 1 alternate. Last call,
all aboard, toot-toot.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18392 From: crustyfour Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: Re: New Part Suggestions
> How about boiler fronts for the Washington and Franklin engines?
-snip-
And going one further, how about making ones that have a bulb
bracket and a real lens so that a working headlight can be added to
these engines?


Execellent suggestion! I've been thinking about a working Franklin
headlight for a while. I thought of boring out the lens area, adding
a glass lens from a mini-mag light. The rear of the headlamp box is
open so a piece of polished aluminum could be added to the rear for a
reflector. A 14 volt "grain of Wheat" was suggested as a small light
source. Perhaps adding a couple tiny holes for ventilation would be
a good idea too.

Has anyone done a conversion like this ?

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 18393 From: gino restivo Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: re ; franklin stlye boiler frt
this part is available in black with the lite
housing cast solid , if you want to put in
a GOW bulb you can use 18v
if your dealer doesn't have any left e-mail
me off list ....... $ 8.50 each + shpg
GSR


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18394 From: gino restivo Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: re ; unavailable parts ?
hi all , if anyone would like a list of parts i make ,
and have sent ( and parts ) to some well known
dealers in the past and present let me know
i can e-mail it to you and you can see that many
parts are still out their .... and many more are
almost completed

( RECTIFOMER TUBE GAURD , 2 left for those
that said they wanted 1 , last chance )

see you at Reliance Fire Hall ,
1341 market st , york,pa .
1 block west of fairgrounds gate
apr 15 - 18
gino


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18395 From: Al Paolozzi Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: Re: New Part Suggestions
How about a green plastic roof for the 23786, talking station, the baggage
smasher station or the plain old empty plastic station. Many times the
roofs are broken or missing. I could use two of them. Al
amflyral@...
----- Original Message -----
From: "rfgiardina" <rfgiardina@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 6:09 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] New Part Suggestions


> We are looking for your help in suggesting any parts that we don't
> make that you have not been able to find. AF "S", "HO" or "O".
> Plastic or metal parts.
>
> also
>
> There may be items we could produce, but we don't have usable
> samples. We would appreciate any original samples of parts you would
> like produced, even if they are broken. We can return any samples,
> and will compensate, with a free part, those that we use and produce.
>
> www.rfgco.com
>
> RFG
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18396 From: dougwyatt Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: S-Scale Hobby Shops
Can anyone recommend Hobby Shops that carry a "significant" inventory
of S-scale train (SHS,Amer. Models, etc.) and modeling products
(scenery, etc.) within a reasonable distance of Westchester County in
NY? I have heard that Chick's Hobby Center in NJ specializes in
S-scale, but that is a 3-hour drive. I would prefer something closer.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18397 From: jfrr54 Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: Re: re ; unavailable parts ?
--
The crosshead guide and arms for a 312 SIT. I have one sitting there
half repaired but it ain't gonna run without no arms. No one seems to
have them in stock.

> John Rodgers
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18398 From: Michael Greene Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: NASG Web site links
As part of a periodic automated check of web site links on the NASG's Web
site pages, the test tool found the following errors and these links (with
the exception of Pennsy S Models) have been or are being removed from the
NASG web site:

1) Pennsy S Models -- bad web page -- seems to have an HTML error on their
home page

2) No Domain being processed (seems these folks have shut down their domains):
- SGS Decals
- Black's Fire Collectibles
- Gilbert Reproductions

3) Web pages missing:
- Lehigh Valley S Gaugers (Did you move you web site somewhere???)
- A C Gilbert Heritage Society, Southeast
- Delphi Railroading Forum
- BHI Buildings & Structure

A number of other web site links were broken, replacements found and fixed.
If you're the webmaster and/or proprietor of pages/sites list in #2 or #3
above, please contact me with new information if you would like to continue
to have links maintained from the NASG web site.

Regards
Michael Greene
NASG Web Site
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Greene Dunstable, MA, USA
Member: NMRA, NASG, Bristol S Gaugers, NTRAK, TCA, The 470 Railroad Club

Bristol S Gaugers http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com
National Assoc. of S Gaugers http://www.nasg.org
Maine Railroads (including DCC Corner) http://www.mainerailroads.org

need a good web hosting service? see http://www.fivebuckhost.com/?r=mgreenej
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Group: S-Trains Message: 18399 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: New part
Here's a repro part I would like to see - a 30 degree crossing for Flyer made with bakelite, just like the 90 degree crossing. I can't imagine why Gilbert never got around to it. The Virginia S-Gauge Club has several homemade ones and they use them to good advantage on their modular layout. I saw their layout at the Greenberg show in Timonium, MD last Saturday. Very nice!

-Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18400 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1380
Front Coupler to run double header locomotives. I have built a coupler
that works, the swing of the coupler is to great to be cast into a front
pilot of an AF loco that has a 4 wheel pilot truck, the coupler bar must
be connected to the pilot truck.

Jerry 77-11644

________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18401 From: John Foley Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: MM&T
Hi Folks
As you probably remember Tom from PHM posted a message about Merlin
Becker
being ill and not continuing with the MM&T train business. [ Downs tanks
car and such ]
Well merlin is home and is doing better. But he is selling the train
business. So if anyone
is interested or may know someone who may be, call Merlin at 717 627-3980
John Foley
Group: S-Trains Message: 18402 From: crustyfour Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1380
Jerry,

Is your's the 282 shown in the files section? If not could you post a
photo ?

Thanks,
Steve Blancard

--- In S-Trains@y..., Gerald R Dobbs <grdobbs@j...> wrote:
>
> Front Coupler to run double header locomotives. I have built
a coupler
> that works, the swing of the coupler is to great to be cast into a
front
> pilot of an AF loco that has a 4 wheel pilot truck, the coupler bar
must
> be connected to the pilot truck.
>
> Jerry 77-11644
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18403 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: Re: New part
I would love to see a 30 & 60 degree crossover readily available.

Tim Brown wrote:

> Here's a repro part I would like to see - a 30 degree crossing for Flyer made with bakelite, just like the 90 degree crossing. I can't imagine why Gilbert never got around to it. The Virginia S-Gauge Club has several homemade ones and they use them to good advantage on their modular layout. I saw their layout at the Greenberg show in Timonium, MD last Saturday. Very nice!
>
> -Tim
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18404 From: gino restivo Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: re ; mail returned from d.garber
Dave Garber , your mail was returned as a failure notice
i sent it to the d.garber@... it came back as
d.garber@...
i sent it again to both if you dont get it ,e-mail me off list
thanks , gino


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18405 From: bassflyer Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: Crossovers & Franklin shells.....
***(((I would love to see a 30 & 60 degree crossover readily
available.)))***

Yep,...I would like to see that also. And for us Franklin
lovers,...I would like to see repro loco and tender shells so they
can be painted in different schemes and not mess up oringinals!
Just remembered,...I CAN repaint my Franklin's smoke stack,..it's a
repro!!

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18406 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: layouts to look at
Some layouts to give you ideas.http://www.members.tripod.com/mr_layouts/index.htm

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18407 From: bassflyer Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: Re: Bachmann ON30 Gondola conversion
I like how Steve Blancard did that easy conversion,...I think that
even I can handle that!! I have wanted some coaches much like the
Flyer old time coaches to repaint and re-letter to match somewhat,
the "Pacific Coast Railway", narrow gauge that used to run in my neck
of the woods here on the Central Coast of Calif.
Now if we can get the Bachmann locos to run on Flyer track,...and
I still want some repro Franklin shells like I mentioned in another
post!
Of course I have been tempted to by a Bachmann On30 set, and re-
letter it and just run it on the HO track,..then I have to buy more
HO track though,...and I'm really not concerned with the "Scale" of
the flyer track compared to narrow gauge,...and like Dewey,..I have
LOTS of Flyer track!! Just wanna have fun!!

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18408 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/19/2002
Subject: Re: layouts to look at
JAMES SLEETH wrote:

>Some layouts to give you
>ideas.http://www.members.tripod.com/mr_layouts/index.htm


Plenty of folks must've taken your suggestion, James. "...site
temporarily suspended due to excessive bandwidth consumption" LOL!


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18409 From: David Dewey Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Cloth-covered wire
Dave,
Restoration Supply Company does have many nice products (used to buy
stuff from them when I ran the RR (autos) car restoration shop), but the
cloth covered wire we need is of about 24 gauge, and is what is known as
"superflex", specially braided wire that is very flexible and doesn't
fatigue easily.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18410 From: David Dewey Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: replacement part
DAvid,
Ball Bearings in the Diesel chassis would only work if you put all
insulated wheels on them and used wipers on the wheels to pick up the power.
The electrical arcing would otherwise destroy the ball bearings in short
order.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18411 From: royhoffman Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: layouts to look at
Nice, but here's one for the home team:
http://www.s-scaletrains.com/LVSG/LVSGpics.htm

--- In S-Trains@y..., JAMES SLEETH <aztecfan@y...> wrote:
> Some layouts to give you
ideas.http://www.members.tripod.com/mr_layouts/index.htm
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
> http://sports.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18412 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: New part
Hi,

Thank you for the correction. I appologize for the mistake.

Great seeing you guys!

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: gino restivo
To: Tim Brown
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 9:03 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] New part


the " Baltimore Area American Flyer Club "
was at the greenberg , timonium show
those x-ings were made by a member some
years ago ,i think it was David Avedesian
he is on S-Trains group list
gino
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Brown <Timboy@...>
To: S-List <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 7:28 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] New part


>Here's a repro part I would like to see - a 30 degree crossing for Flyer
made with bakelite, just like the 90 degree crossing. I can't imagine why
Gilbert never got around to it. The Virginia S-Gauge Club has several
homemade ones and they use them to good advantage on their modular layout.
I saw their layout at the Greenberg show in Timonium, MD last Saturday.
Very nice!
>
>-Tim
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18413 From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: replacement parts
How about repro Northern Tender Shells & Frames. I know I can use two.

Al

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18414 From: Horn, David Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: replacement part
David D, I'd take my chances on ball bearings. I realize you're quite
certain that arching is the death of diesel wheel bushings, but I'm not so
convinced. I believe it is more heat than arching that does them in. My
LTI diesels run for ever with virtually no wheel bushing wear (i.e. if
arching were the issue then wouldn't these show adverse effects from it
too?). However, even LTI diesel chassis in ACG diesels show signs of wear
much sooner. The LTI diesel's don't get the slightest bit warm with the can
motor removed from the drive train and nylon gears between the motor and
drive shaft helping to further thermally insulate the chassis from the
motor's heat. ACG units on the other hand, with their motor an integral
part of the chassis, warm up considerably In fact, depending on the load
they're pulling and for how long they can get down right hot.

I think the greatest challenge to ball bearings for Flyer trains would be
getting the ID big enough to allow the knurled ends to slip through without
damaging the inner walls of the bearing, but then not be too loose for the
smooth part of the axle.

Still, I think there's a bearing that can be made, or already exists, that
would work. If my kids were grown and I was retired, I'd work on this to
come up with a solution. In the meantime, it'll stay on my wish list.

Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 18415 From: John DeFelice Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: ball bearings (was replacement parts)
Hi,
It seems to me if bushings/bearings are worn out ( or burned with electrical arcs), then the shaft is also some what damaged ...... I agree the knurled end of the shaft may be larger then the bearing surface, so why not make the shaft larger in the center, and bore the gear to fit........ If you were going this far, to put in ball bearings it makes sense to change the axles also
Thanks John


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18416 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Cloth-covered wire
This used to be called "speaker wire". That term may be passé now.
Anyone know of a source? I did find some more flexible wire at Radio
Shack. It has extra thick but soft insulation and worked well on a 290
I rewired that carries a diecast PRR tender shell. However, I'd like
still more flexible wire for a lighter plastic loco and tender.

David Dewey wrote:
>
> Dave,
> Restoration Supply Company does have many nice products (used to buy
> stuff from them when I ran the RR (autos) car restoration shop), but the
> cloth covered wire we need is of about 24 gauge, and is what is known as
> "superflex", specially braided wire that is very flexible and doesn't
> fatigue easily.
> S'
> David D.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18417 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: ball bearings (was replacement parts)
Here is another part that could be made to help keep the bearings from
arcing and destroying themselves. It is an electrical pickup mod., that
screws on the the truck. Clever Idea even though it was not mine :-)

Here ia a link to pictures on th Yahoo s-trains files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/AF%20Alco%20Slide%20pick-up/

It would improve performance and prolong bearing life...

Somebody needs to make these or a variation ...

Carl


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.tuveson.com
Check Out New AF Loco DC Geared Motor Kit!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


-----Original Message-----
From: John DeFelice [mailto:jdefelice@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 12:35 PM
To: american flyer list
Subject: [S-Trains] ball bearings (was replacement parts)


Hi,
It seems to me if bushings/bearings are worn out ( or burned with electrical
arcs), then the shaft is also some what damaged ...... I agree the knurled
end of the shaft may be larger then the bearing surface, so why not make the
shaft larger in the center, and bore the gear to fit........ If you were
going this far, to put in ball bearings it makes sense to change the axles
also Thanks John


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18418 From: John DeFelice Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Cloth covered wire
Hi
I just finished wiring a 290 last night, I re-used the cloth outer covering ( jacket), & put four # 24 black insulated flexible wires in it ........ It looks pretty original, & is flexible enough to allow the tender to track properly....On 5 wire engines I leave the 5th wire out of the jacket...
I used this system before & never had any problems....
Thanks John.
PS: Does anyone make rubber stamps to re letter the tenders? I remember the old stamps that had the numbers or letters on a roller, so you could adjust them & use them for different messages (dates for instance)........ It would be a useful replacement tool...... Maybe one for lettering & one for numbers, with the different print types???



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18419 From: Jim Carnes Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Hydrocal vs Plaster?
Here is a link to a U.S. Gypsum site that may help explain the differences - or make
it more confusing.

http://www.plastermaster.com/usg/index.htm



wmhtreftsv@... wrote:

> Folks,
>
> I've been wondering about the difference between Hydrocal and plain old
> plaster for model scenery. I know there is a price difference. Is the
> higher price of Hydrocal worth that difference?
>
> A friend of "el cheapo"
>
> Bill Trefts
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18420 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: ball bearings (was replacement parts)
With regard to ball or roller bearings for the diesel axles you would
probably need to assemble the bearings on the gear shaft first and then put
this assembly into the chassis.

The inner race bore of the bearing would need to have a slight interference
fit with the gear shaft (axle) so the shaft would not slide back and forth
in the bearing. The bearing outer race O.D. would need a slight
interference with the chassis bores as not to slide back and forth in the
chassis. The bearings should be no wider then 5/32" and slightly larger in
diameter then the gear.

Bearings of this small size are available from Motion Industries, I called.
The issue would be machining a new shaft to fit the gear and bearings. Also
you will need to machine the chassis bores. You would need to make some jigs
and special tooling but this is definitely doable.
-
Ken


Hi,
It seems to me if bushings/bearings are worn out ( or burned with electrical
arcs), then the shaft is also some what damaged ...... I agree the knurled
end of the shaft may be larger then the bearing surface, so why not make the
shaft larger in the center, and bore the gear to fit........ If you were
going this far, to put in ball bearings it makes sense to change the axles
also
Thanks John


+
Group: S-Trains Message: 18421 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Cloth covered wire
Try a cloth shoelace for wire covering, they come in different sizes for any
# of wires. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18422 From: Donald Abrams Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Clamshell--how low will it go?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1712621715
This has been up for auction many times. I believe it started out at 79.99
and has been going down in $10.00 increments since, to my knowledge, no one
ever bid on it.
Don
Group: S-Trains Message: 18423 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: super flex wire
I use a lot of rubber covered super flex wire. It is great stuff for
engine-tender connections and any wire that moves, such as one soldered to
a truck rivet. Paid $14.00 for a 100 ft. spool. It's approximately 20
gauge, I forget the exact thickness. Lionel parts dealers carry this item;
so does Doug Peck.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18424 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Crossovers & Franklin shells.....
--- In S-Trains@y..., "bassflyer" <comic@d...> wrote:
>
> ***(((I would love to see a 30 & 60 degree crossover readily
> available.)))***
>
> Yep,...I would like to see that also. And for us Franklin
> lovers,...I would like to see repro loco and tender shells so they
> can be painted in different schemes and not mess up oringinals!
> Just remembered,...I CAN repaint my Franklin's smoke stack,..it's
a
> repro!!
>
> Rick.

Got to love those Franklins and Washingtons. Great idea, how do we
get shops to make these repros and crossovers? John.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18425 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Project
Hi All,

If anybody out there needs a project, take a look at this shocker:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1715111551

I've seen worse, but I can't remember when.

Regards,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18426 From: Clifford Manning Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: replacement part
I would like to see a replacement for the frame/floor for 650 passenger cars and a
replacement for the XA12A202 - link & gear assembly for the 742 Hand Car.

"Horn, David" wrote:

> David D, I'd take my chances on ball bearings. I realize you're quite
> certain that arching is the death of diesel wheel bushings, but I'm not so
> convinced. I believe it is more heat than arching that does them in. My
> LTI diesels run for ever with virtually no wheel bushing wear (i.e. if
> arching were the issue then wouldn't these show adverse effects from it
> too?). However, even LTI diesel chassis in ACG diesels show signs of wear
> much sooner. The LTI diesel's don't get the slightest bit warm with the can
> motor removed from the drive train and nylon gears between the motor and
> drive shaft helping to further thermally insulate the chassis from the
> motor's heat. ACG units on the other hand, with their motor an integral
> part of the chassis, warm up considerably In fact, depending on the load
> they're pulling and for how long they can get down right hot.
>
> I think the greatest challenge to ball bearings for Flyer trains would be
> getting the ID big enough to allow the knurled ends to slip through without
> damaging the inner walls of the bearing, but then not be too loose for the
> smooth part of the axle.
>
> Still, I think there's a bearing that can be made, or already exists, that
> would work. If my kids were grown and I was retired, I'd work on this to
> come up with a solution. In the meantime, it'll stay on my wish list.
>
> Dave
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18427 From: Clifford Manning Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: soldering
I am attaching wires to track. Has anyone had success in soldering the
wire directly to the track. How many watts was your soldering iron?? If
not soldered like in HO, is there another method instead of track clips?

clifma19
Group: S-Trains Message: 18428 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Clamshell--how low will it go?
Marty's Trains must have bought a bunch of these right around when the coal loaders
were released. He has been advertising them for quite a while with $59 starting bids
and buy it now prices of $79-99. Looks like the market for them must have dried up
some. A while back, I would have paid the $79 so I could repair one of several 752s,
but I found a 583 with the clamshell instead of a magnet and bought it cheap. Got a
couple of the magnets for $15 each from one of the Erector set parts dealers. Now I
got a BUNCH of repainting to do.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


Donald Abrams wrote:

> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1712621715
> This has been up for auction many times. I believe it started out at 79.99
> and has been going down in $10.00 increments since, to my knowledge, no one
> ever bid on it.
> Don
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18429 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Project
Hey, I think I got the 586 station twin brother to that one! At least the price I
paid was right - FREE!

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


Tim Brown wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> If anybody out there needs a project, take a look at this shocker:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1715111551
>
> I've seen worse, but I can't remember when.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18430 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: soldering
Soldering wires to track is easy if you prep the track right first. An old Weller
gun will work fine, but a resistance soldering setup is better and quicker,
especially if you are using track with plastic ties.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


Clifford Manning wrote:

> I am attaching wires to track. Has anyone had success in soldering the
> wire directly to the track. How many watts was your soldering iron?? If
> not soldered like in HO, is there another method instead of track clips?
>
> clifma19
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18431 From: crustyfour Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: soldering
--- In S-Trains@y..., Clifford Manning <clifma19@m...> wrote:
> I am attaching wires to track. Has anyone had success in soldering
the
> wire directly to the track. How many watts was your soldering iron

snip

I've done it with a 100 watt iron.

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 18432 From: Paul Yorke Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: S-Gauge Model Railroading Volume IV
I got my copy of Steve & Sam's latest video. In my
opinion it is the best in the series. It includes the
video history of Sam's new layout from bare walls to
running trains. And believe it or not those trains
have SnS can motor conversions. The layout is not
complete so I suspect we will see more in future
releases.
This one has a great sound track too. ;-)

Thanks again Steve & Sam, I suspect this one will sell
out.
Get your copy at http://s-scaletrains.com/s-n-s/

PS. at $13, this is one of the best deals around.

=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18433 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: soldering
Easy to solder to rails. If brass or nickel silver use regular solder
and an iron of at least 30-35 watts. I prefer a heavier wattage iron
for rail and use one so hot I need to be careful get off the joint
before I melt plastic ties. The secret is the solder must be hot enough
to really flow. The same iron that heats wires for soldering may not
heat rail well enough. If using steel like Flyer or Gargraves you need
a different flux. In all cases do NOT try to solder without attaching
to shiny bright metal- remove any oxides.

Clifford Manning wrote:
>
> I am attaching wires to track. Has anyone had success in soldering the
> wire directly to the track. How many watts was your soldering iron?? If
> not soldered like in HO, is there another method instead of track clips?
>
> clifma19
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18434 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: super flex wire
So does Radio Shack

jarcho@... wrote:
>
> I use a lot of rubber covered super flex wire. It is great stuff for
> engine-tender connections and any wire that moves, such as one soldered to
> a truck rivet. Paid $14.00 for a 100 ft. spool. It's approximately 20
> gauge, I forget the exact thickness. Lionel parts dealers carry this item;
> so does Doug Peck.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18435 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: soldering
Hi,

I solder wires to Flyer track all the time. I like to lightly use a cutting wheel on my Dremel tool to remove junk down to bare metal on a little spot on the outside bottom edge of the rail first. Sandpaper would work, but I feel like it's more of a surgical procedure with my Dremel. Then I tin the spot and tin the wire, then attach with solder on the tip of my 40 watt iron. I would discourage soldering wires to the inside of the rails as this might cause a derailment. You could solder to the undersides, tho'.

Hope this helps.
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Clifford Manning
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 2:23 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] soldering


I am attaching wires to track. Has anyone had success in soldering the
wire directly to the track. How many watts was your soldering iron?? If
not soldered like in HO, is there another method instead of track clips?

clifma19


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All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18436 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Project
Hi,

Sometimes free isn't free if you have to replace darn near everything. But if you're handy and have the parts or can make them, then you have my respect.

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.
To: Tim Brown
Cc: S-List
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Project


Hey, I think I got the 586 station twin brother to that one! At least the price I paid was right - FREE!
Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


Tim Brown wrote:

Hi All,
If anybody out there needs a project, take a look at this shocker:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1715111551

I've seen worse, but I can't remember when.

Regards,
Tim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18437 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: soldering
What size wire is best for soldering to af track? Thanks,John.





--- In S-Trains@y..., "Tim Brown" <Timboy@a...> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I solder wires to Flyer track all the time. I like to lightly use
a cutting wheel on my Dremel tool to remove junk down to bare metal
on a little spot on the outside bottom edge of the rail first.
Sandpaper would work, but I feel like it's more of a surgical
procedure with my Dremel. Then I tin the spot and tin the wire, then
attach with solder on the tip of my 40 watt iron. I would discourage
soldering wires to the inside of the rails as this might cause a
derailment. You could solder to the undersides, tho'.
>
> Hope this helps.
> Tim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Clifford Manning
> To: S-Trains@y...
> Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 2:23 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] soldering
>
>
> I am attaching wires to track. Has anyone had success in
soldering the
> wire directly to the track. How many watts was your soldering
iron?? If
> not soldered like in HO, is there another method instead of track
clips?
>
> clifma19
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-
unsubscribe@Y...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18438 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Project
That's pretty much why it's still sitting in the "to do" box. Needs a total paint job and the baggage cart, people, etc.

Roger


Tim Brown wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Sometimes free isn't free if you have to replace darn near everything. But if you're handy and have the parts or can make them, then you have my respect.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.
> To: Tim Brown
> Cc: S-List
> Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 12:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Project
>
> Hey, I think I got the 586 station twin brother to that one! At least the price I paid was right - FREE!
> Roger Petrella
> Franktown, CO
>
>
> Tim Brown wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> If anybody out there needs a project, take a look at this shocker:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1715111551
>
> I've seen worse, but I can't remember when.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18439 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: New Part Suggestions - Franklin headlights
--- crustyfour <splitdorf@...> wrote:
> I thought of boring out the lens area, adding a glass lens from a
mini-mag light. The rear of the headlamp box is open so a piece of
polished aluminum could be added to the rear for a reflector. A 14 volt
"grain of Wheat" was suggested as a small light source. Perhaps adding
a couple tiny holes for ventilation would be a good idea too.
>
> Has anyone done a conversion like this ?
>
I can't remember who, but when we were discussing this a long time ago,
somebody wrote me that they had tried something like this and the
headlamp housing started to melt. Maybe a White or yellow LED in the
lamp housing would work, but what I was really thinking of was the bulb
being behind the boiler like the other steamers, perhaps with a bracket
of the type that is in a 21004 switcher that holds the little bulb
which is the same as the one in Sam the Semaphore. Then the lens would
have the long piece that would extend down through the back of the lamp
housing and through the top of the boiler front into the boiler where
the lamp is. the light shining on the end of this would be transmitted
through the clear rod (ala fiber optics) up to the external lens. This
technique is used in several flyer steamer headlights.



__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18440 From: gino restivo Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: re, mail failure ?
hi all , thank you for the response .....

will David Garber send a working E-MAIL , THANKS

if any one has not rec a copy ,let me know off - list
and i will send it to you ,

thank you all ,
gino


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18441 From: Doug Peck Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Franklin boiler fronts
Franklin boiler fronts????
We have those.
They're solid black, so you have to do the red painting (Franklin) or the
blue & gold (Washington), but at least they're available!

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supplies
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours - Weekday Evenings from 7:00 PM to 9:30 PM
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-Free; orders only, please)
<http://www.portlines.com/>
Doug@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 18442 From: David Dewey Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Project
Hmm, Would be perfect "as is" for a ghetto area of a layout, or maybe a fire
scene?? Hmm, mine is pretty bad, but I think better than this one!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18443 From: Doug Peck Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Wire, Rubber stamps, & clamshells
Never ceases to surprise me when items get requested that already exist!!!
(a) Yes, we have that super-flexible plastic-coated wire, 24-gauge for loco
wiring etc.
(I may be wrong, but I don't think Radio Shack's is the "super-flex"
type.....it is stranded, but stiffer.)
We ALSO have it with cloth-covering, identical to original ACG wire.
Also have the 4-wire harnesses, with cloth-covered wire inside a cloth
sheath....just like ACG.
Also have the cloth-covered "tinsel wire" for wiring the clamshells and EM
Cranes.
Have the clamshells in stock, at $50.
And we have over 100 rubber-stamps available for tender restorations,
diesels, some accessories, and most steam-engine numbers. These are EXACT
stampings, as they were made from photographs of original ACG stampings!
With dry-transfers presently going extinct, these rubber-stamps have become
the only good alternative.
Our entire Parts Catalog is available on our website, and is continually
updated, almost nightly!

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supplies
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours - Weekday Evenings from 7:00 PM to 9:30 PM
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-Free; orders only, please)
<http://www.portlines.com/>
Doug@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 18444 From: David Dewey Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: ball bearings (was replacement parts)
The ACG axles are made to keep the gear knurling from damaging the bearing.
The outside wheel knurling are both the same size, a bit smaller than the
gear knurling. One side of the axle is larger in diameter than the gear
knurling, as is the bearing ID on one side. I would have to dig out my
notes to give you the diameters, I don't yet have them committed to memory!
But it is possible to fit the axle bearings with .001 clearance.
The LTI diesels not only use nylon gears, they also have a wire
connecting the slider shoe to the wire harness. I believe these two items
help reduce the bearing arcing, but I don't have enough research to check
this out. The chassis, being made of Zamak will be eaten by the arcing much
more quickly than the steel axle.
That's my story, and I'm a stickin' to it!!! ;-)
S'
David D.
PS unrelated, but as I post this, the radio station is reporting a major
fire in downtown Nevada City, a gold-rush-era very historical site.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18445 From: Steve Blancard Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Franklin headlights
Scott,

Heat certainly is a consideration. The idea of fiber optics is good but it may be
difficult to implement on the Franklin due to the exposed position of the headlight
box. Are LEDs available that run on straight 12-18 volts AC power without others
circuitry? They sure would run cooler.

Steve Blancard

Scott Holm wrote:

> I can't remember who, but when we were discussing this a long time ago,
> somebody wrote me that they had tried something like this and the
> headlamp housing started to melt. Maybe a White or yellow LED in the
> lamp housing would work, but what I was really thinking of was the bulb
> being behind the boiler like the other steamers, perhaps with a bracket
> of the type that is in a 21004 switcher that holds the little bulb
> which is the same as the one in Sam the Semaphore. Then the lens would
> have the long piece that would extend down through the back of the lamp
> housing and through the top of the boiler front into the boiler where
> the lamp is. the light shining on the end of this would be transmitted
> through the clear rod (ala fiber optics) up to the external lens. This
> technique is used in several flyer steamer headlights.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
> http://sports.yahoo.com/
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18446 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: S-Scale Hobby Shops
Doug Wyatt, who is looking for a well stocked "S" gauge emporium, says:
> I have heard that Chick's Hobby Center in NJ specializes in
>S-scale, but that is a 3-hour drive. I would prefer something closer.

Doug:
Your note only serves to point out how much has changed in S-gauge. There
was a time when an S modeler would be delighted to only drive three hours to
find such a place. Usually, after such an outing, he would be sorely
disappointed when the purported S-pecialist turned out to have only a dozen
kits and some used Flyer sprinkled among his HO inventory.

I like that you are dissatisfied with not having a corner store with
S-upplies. Frankly, I would like S-even Eleven to start selling AM and SHS.
In fact, I think I'll put a 7-11 on my layout with a big sign in the window:
"S-pecial -- free S-lurpee with every SHS car . . . while S-upplies laSt!"

Until you see the prototype for such a dream, go see Chick. He has a lot of
S-tuff.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18447 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1383
Hydrocal vs plaster;
I use both Hydrocal sets up faster. But my new scenery technic is
using old news paper (which is free)
And latex paint (cheep from garage sales). soak the news paper in a
bucket 1 or 2 days, whip it to a mesh with a metal paint mixing tool in
a power drill (may have to add some more water). Mix 3 paper to 1 latex
paint (green or earth brown),
using an old 1" paint brush spread this mixture (like cake frosting) on
your form. I use gray weed control cloth (used under rock landscaping),
stretched over cardboard dry wall shims (strips of cardboard 1/2" x 36"
+/-).It drys fast about 1 hr, is light and flexible and if cracked, it is
colored all the way thru.

Jerry 77-11644

________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18448 From: gino restivo Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: re ; franklin headlites
after some thought and looking at a boiler front i think the best
way to lite one is with a micro - minature bulb from CIR-KIT
CONCEPTS as found on walthers.com site search .......
i will get / find some and try it , drill out the housing,drop the wire
down and then thru back to smoke unit teminals

note ; i have a few to destroy and i might sell them
this way
have fun , gino



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18449 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Route 66 trip
Well, my wife & I have decided to shell the trip to Jacksonville & instead
follow the old Route 66 through New Mexico & Arizona. Are there any good
trains shops along the way or can't miss RR stops?

Mike Leahy (Boulder, CO.)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18450 From: Lance McCold Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: New repro item
Mention of the ball bearings gave me another idea. I would like some new
needle-point axles I could install in flyer wheels and, of course, matching
Delrin bushings that could go into the sideframes so the cars would roll
easily.

Lance McCold
Knoxville, Tennessee
Group: S-Trains Message: 18451 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Route 66 trip
If you get as far as Rhyolite, NV (there are web sites on the net), you definately
need to see this train station in a ghost town. I'm searching for drawings like they
feature in Model Railroading to scratch build a model of this station.
Can any be of help?

LEAHY RUTH A wrote:

> Well, my wife & I have decided to shell the trip to Jacksonville & instead
> follow the old Route 66 through New Mexico & Arizona. Are there any good
> trains shops along the way or can't miss RR stops?
>
> Mike Leahy (Boulder, CO.)
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18452 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Bachmann ON30 Gondola conversion
Just a reminder folks,
we are making an S gauge chassis for the ON30 trolley. It shares the same
design as our brass car- brass chassis, flywheel, oversize motor, brass
sideframes. No, we didn't get time to put it on the web page yet!
Retail is $ 150 for car with chassis installed. We use the same lights that
come witht eh body. Available in AC - single direction, and DC.
Tom D.

----- Original Message -----
From: "bassflyer" <comic@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 12:37 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Bachmann ON30 Gondola conversion


> I like how Steve Blancard did that easy conversion,...I think that
> even I can handle that!! I have wanted some coaches much like the
> Flyer old time coaches to repaint and re-letter to match somewhat,
> the "Pacific Coast Railway", narrow gauge that used to run in my neck
> of the woods here on the Central Coast of Calif.
> Now if we can get the Bachmann locos to run on Flyer track,...and
> I still want some repro Franklin shells like I mentioned in another
> post!
> Of course I have been tempted to by a Bachmann On30 set, and re-
> letter it and just run it on the HO track,..then I have to buy more
> HO track though,...and I'm really not concerned with the "Scale" of
> the flyer track compared to narrow gauge,...and like Dewey,..I have
> LOTS of Flyer track!! Just wanna have fun!!
>
> Rick.
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18453 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Train Show Display
Check this out!
Gene
http://allaboardsetsclub.org
Group: S-Trains Message: 18454 From: Peter Ervin Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Rail and track gauge
I'm going to hand lay some track soon. Which of the dealers has rail,
preferably nickel silver? Will also need a track gauge, spikes and cross
ties. Does anyone have any hints on how to lay rail?

Pete Ervin
Group: S-Trains Message: 18455 From: Steve Blancard Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: re ; franklin headlites
Great Gino! We'll be looking forward to hearing your results.

Steve Blancard

gino restivo wrote:

> after some thought and looking at a boiler front i think the best
> way to lite one is with a micro - minature bulb from CIR-KIT
> CONCEPTS as found on walthers.com site search .......
> i will get / find some and try it , drill out the housing,drop the wire
> down and then thru back to smoke unit teminals
>
> note ; i have a few to destroy and i might sell them
> this way
> have fun , gino
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18456 From: THOMAS E HILLERY Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1382
Some hobby stores near Westchester
Red Caboose on 45th St NYC has SHS (owner has problems)
LaBlanc Trains in Staten Island has AM and SHS and Flyer- owner is a nice
guy
Westchester Central Trains - 217 E. post Rd- had some Flyer
T. Hillery
Group: S-Trains Message: 18457 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/20/2002
Subject: Re: replacement part
Dave wrote:

>David D, I'd take my chances on ball bearings. I realize you're quite
>certain that arching is the death of diesel wheel bushings, but I'm
>not so convinced. I believe it is more heat than arching that does
>them in.

It's not just the arcing itself, but what arcing does to lubricants
(it evaporates them) that is the problem. Shoving electrons through
grease or oil tends to make the grease or oil disappear, leaving you
with dry steel axles twisting against dry zinc alloy (or whatever the
truck chassis are made of) in short order.


>My LTI diesels run for ever with virtually no wheel bushing wear

I'm very relieved to hear that, since I have one Flyonel Geep,
myself. (Hey, it's Santa Fe. I HAFTA keep it!)


>(i.e. if arching were the issue then wouldn't these show adverse
>effects from it too?)

Not necessarily. The porous bronze bushings around the axles of
Flyonel diesel power trucks store up quite a bit of oil. It takes
longer for that much to evaporate. Also the sliding contacts are more
directly connected to the main wiring, making them easily the path of
least resistance.


>However, even LTI diesel chassis in ACG diesels show signs of wear
>much sooner.

Assuming you're referring to an LTI diesel chassis running a Gilbert
old style open-frame armature and wire-wound field, the current level
is much higher than with a can motor, so the lubricants are getting
zapped more harshly.


>The LTI diesel's don't get the slightest bit warm with the can
>motor removed from the drive train and nylon gears between the motor
>and drive shaft helping to further thermally insulate the chassis
>from the motor's heat... metalACG units on the other hand, with
>their motor an integral part of the chassis, warm up considerably

Very true, but even the heat generated by the old Gilbert motor isn't
sufficient to make a difference in the softness of even the most
delicate metal in the ACG motor truck. The zinc alloy Gilbert used
melts at a temp well above plumbing solder's melting point (450 deg,
F.) As for the lubricants, they can stand the heat of the motor and
chassis. If heat were an issue, it would be the heat generated
DIRECTLY by the electrical arc involved, operating where the arc is
occurring, not heat generated by the motor itself. Even so, the loss
of lubricants in a bearing due to current though it is, I believe,
the main cause of excessive wear.


>In fact, depending on the load they're pulling and for how long they
>can get down right hot.

Yes, hot to the touch all right. But if you can touch the chassis
without actually being burned, the lubricants are in safe territory,
temperature-wise. That is, if they're still present.

BTW, the fact that the can motors in Flyonel diesels have nowhere to
shed their heat is actually a problem, especially with the older pre-
1990 can (the milky-white GE motor.) I burned out the motor in the
aforementioned Geep by merely using it to pull ten easy-rolling
freight cars around a loop of level track for longer than its
allotted 20 minutes. It didn't much matter that the truck chassis
itself was only lukewarm, the motor armature was cooked. Normally,
the motor casing would get too hot to touch, MUCH hotter than a
Gilbert truck chassis, after a measly 10 minutes of light duty
anyway. I replaced the motor with the newer post-1990 Japanese unit
which is significantly more efficient, but because the problem of a
lack of a path for heat transfer remains, I still don't run the loco
for long periods.


>Still, I think there's a bearing that can be made, or already
>exists, that would work.

Actually, I like the idea of ball bearings, and I think it would work
too, IF electrical current is kept out of the bearing. One way to do
that would be to insulate all the wheels, and collect current
directly from the rails through sliding contacts with a big enough
footprint. I really don't think wheel wipers are the way to go for
these power-hungry locos. All wheel wipers do is add one more contact
point in the circuit. Not good.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18458 From: Horn, David Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Re: replacement/ball bearings
Arching may be part of it. That certainly would help explain why even a
high quality light white Teflon-impregnated grease (LaBelle 106) in axle
bushings can turn to a gray paste, especially in the case of 355 Baldwin,
unless you occasionally "refresh" it with a little drop of compatible oil
(#107 or 108). With that it's slicker than a Bourbon Street barker.

But FYI, I did rebushed an ACG 360's original chassis and added wires from
its pick-up feet. Still it consumed those new brass oilite bushings way
faster than it should have (since then I converted it to use two post 1992
LTI cans with matching chassis, no problems any more). Also I added wires
to both trucks of my 470 SF PA, but even with fresh new LTI chassis (still
with ACG armatures, etc.) it has required bushing replacements during the
same time that my LTI 48114 NP PA is still on its original everything.

PS Lionel diesels have a vintage chart. I still need to find the time to
sum it all up and post that, but there were 3-4 timeframes since they were
first introduced during which different components were used and
subsequently different results/performance can be expected. The bottom
line, the more recent the manufacture (especially if late 1991 and later),
the better.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18459 From: David Dewey Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Axle bushings: was RE:replacement part
Some evidence I will supply to lend credence to my belief in arcing causing
the wear in these chassis:
Numerous single-wheel pull-mor chassis where the pull-mor axle, which is
electrically insulated from the track is still tight in its bearings while
the other axle, which does supply power from the track is very loose in its
bearings--and the gears show more wear on it also.
Wear that is towards the bottom of the chassis, opposite of where one
would expect it to be. Now to support Chuck F.'s points, these holes also
have wear on the top too, probably from lack of lubricant!
Chuck also had very good points about motor load that I hadn't
considered. Note also that the steamer chassis are of the same composition
as the diesels, yet most do not have this "wear" problem, and their wheels
are electrically insulated from the track!
I do disagree on the contention that wheel wipers wouldn't be effective.
If the wheel is insulated from the axle, a wiper will be the only way to
pick up power from the rail, other than the sliders. If you are clever, you
could use wipers to pick up power from ALL the metal wheels on a unit,
reducing the power load on each, and increasing reliability. I hope to
experiment with this idea when I have some spare time (WHAT??? what is spare
time??)
And I hope David Horn gets time to do that Flyonel chart, it would be
most helpful! Note that the later can motors, although they look very
similar to the early ones, will not mount to the early can motor adapter.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18460 From: rfgiardina Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Re: Axle bushings: was RE:replacement part
The reason for the wear, is that arcing between the axle and chassis
causes oxidation of the aluminum. Aluminum oxide is created, the
stuff sand paper is made with, which mixes with the lubricant. This
creates a paste that wears the softer aluminum material. The axles,
which are plated, usually with nickel, are harder and don't wear.

RFG
Group: S-Trains Message: 18461 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Driving for "S"
In a message dated 03/21/2002 1:31:28 AM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> > I have heard that Chick's Hobby Center in NJ specializes in
> >S-scale, but that is a 3-hour drive. I would prefer something closer.
>
> Doug:
> Your note only serves to point out how much has changed in S-gauge. There
> was a time when an S modeler would be delighted to only drive three hours
> to
> find such a place.

I, for one would be delighted to only have to drive 3 hr. to find S-Gauge
products. I now have to drive 500+ miles. There are no S-dealers anywhere in
the state of Idaho and the only one in Utah is closing it's doors. So it's
Portland Oregon or Seattle area for us here. Bring on the 3 hr. drive, I'll
take it.

Steve in Boise


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18462 From: Robert Wight Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: My beginning layout
Well folks, here is a link to my beginning small latout. It's just in the
beginning stages and dont expect much. Chris Zizzo worked very hard on doing
this web page for me. It is just beyound me right now. So I thought it would
be nice for you all to see his hard work.

http://www.boomspeed.com/bobgaylord/

Happy Railroading
Bob Wight

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18463 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: 30B meters
Hi,
anyone out there with 30B volt meters that do not work & is willing to
give them away also ammeters. I will pay postage. Please contact me off list.
Thank You Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18464 From: crustyfour Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Re: 30B meters & smoke fluid
--- In S-Trains@y..., anormal1@a... wrote:
> Hi, anyone out there with 30B volt meters that do not work & is
willing to give them away also ammeters....

snip

This of course begs the questions - "What are you going to do with
them ?" and "are your repairing them ?"


BTW,

I've been using your smoke fluid the last couple weeks and am very
happy with the results. I used it in my locos on the ACSG modular
layout in Manassas Virginia last weekend. The N gauge guys who were
in the same room kept squawking about the smoke on Saturday. When we
came back in Sunday morning they said "Here comes the S gaugers,
there goes the clean air". :-) :-) Needless to say, we kept the
room smokey all day!

Its the best I've found - thanks.

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 18465 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Re: 30B meters & smoke fluid
Thank You Steve,
I was at a TTOS meet 2 weeks ago & talked to
the Nat. Pres. What started the conversation was my arm load of Flyer Sw's.
his words after the reg conversation was" You "S" guys are starting to come
out of the woodwork"
As to the meters yes I'm going to try to either repair them myself or find
a co that does & yes make a reas. profit for my efforts. Also I really would
like to have one to take with me in a search for a ready made replacement. I
think The radio Shack meters would fit the hole but the meter is sq. plastic.
that is one way to go but if a round metal type could be found,all the
better. Theres the chance of getting the workings and repairing that way. I
worked at SO CAL EDISON in the SW & meter Divison, I have some background
But not the eyes for it.
Did I mention I would pay the postage? Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18466 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1384
Parts Needed, Northern tender, they fit both "o" & "s", most have been
destroyed by deterioration
At every auction even bad ones bring upwards of $100.
I could use at least 3.


Ruth Leahy; Route 66 trip. most of US 66 is now just back roads and
abandon is now I-40, Small train shop in Albuquerque. Off I-40 good
shops in Las Angeles, Las Veges, & Phoenix.


Peter Ervin: Hand laying track is an art in it self, Set your ties
with glue, sand level, set the rail using a track gauge, and spike it
down. Lindsay ( H.O. ) made a spiker a few years back which is very
handy. Most scale operators use code 100 track, which is to small to
run template locomotives on, When all is said and done, I believe using
good old American Flyer track ( or other "S" manufactures ) is hard to
beat.


Jerry 77-11644
Lakewood Colo.

________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18467 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Axle bushings: was RE:replacement part
David D. wrote:

>Some evidence I will supply to lend credence to my belief in arcing
>causing the wear in these chassis: Numerous single-wheel pull-mor
>chassis where the pull-mor axle, which is electrically insulated
>from the track is still tight in its bearings while the other axle,
>which does supply power from the track is very loose in its
>bearings--and the gears show more wear on it also.

Granted, there is no arcing on the all-pulmor axle because there's no
current through the bearing), but that is also why the lubricants are
remaining intact there.


>Wear that is towards the bottom of the chassis, opposite of where one
>would expect it to be.

Just curious, David, how did you go about determining that there was
any wear on the bottom of the hole as opposed to the top? I'm not
saying you can't, just wondering.


>Note also that the steamer chassis are of the same composition
>as the diesels, yet most do not have this "wear" problem, and their
>wheels are electrically insulated from the track!

Yup. No current going through the bearings, no arcing, lubricants are
not destroyed.

I'm not saying that arcing is NOT a problem, certainly it is. It's
not the ONLY problem, unfortunately.


>I do disagree on the contention that wheel wipers wouldn't be
>effective.

I didn't say they wouldn't be effective. I said it would be better to
have track wipers instead of wheel wipers ONLY, because when you
apply a wiper to the wheel you still have the extra point of contact
between the wheel and the rail to contend with. That's fine for the
efficient drive systems on SHS and AM locos, especially since they
use ALL of the wheels. But the multi-amp current loads of ACG diesels
benefit from the more direct path that leaves out the wheel
altogether. Even with a wheel wiper taking the current around the
bearing (which would, I agree, protect the bearing), there is still
the wheel-to-rail contact point, which is a notoriously arc-prone
connection. Track wipers push debris out of the way, and scrub the
rail a little bit besides. Wheels just roll over debris and
corrosion, causing arcing and its associated problems. That's what I
ran into with my 360 Alco before fitting it with track wipers. Not
only were lubricants being lost, but the conductive wheels and the
track were being heavily pitted.


>If you are clever

"IF?" We're ALL clever here David! We're S gaugers! :^D (We should
call S "The Clever Gauge".)


>you could use wipers to pick up power from ALL the metal wheels on a
>unit,reducing the power load on each, and increasing reliability.

Yes, that would definitely help, but the current load on each wheel
would still be roughly 3 times what it is on SHS or AM wheels. These
ACG diesel motors are just too hungry for mere wheel-to-rail feeding,
methinks, anyway. (The same is true of the steamers, IMO.)

The more I read about other people's problems with ACG diesel trucks,
and compare them with my own experiences, the more I'm convinced that
the real solution is to redesign/modify the chassis for can motor
operation. Yeah, I know, Lionel already did that, but they made a
mess of it. The noisy spur gear add-on retrofit they came up with is
a real kluge job. (The obnoxious whine coming from my Flyonel Geep is
another reason I don't run it very long, or very often.)

The folks who came up with that (non-spur gear) can motor conversion
for AF steamers would be doing us all another great service if they
came up with a clean, non-spur gear motor truck conversion for ACG
diesels. I could use 4 of 'em, myself. No, make that 5. Why should I
leave out the Geep?


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18468 From: Steve Blancard Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Re: 30B meters & smoke fluid
There definately is a need for a volt meter repair service and/or a drop
in replacement. Good luck with it.

Steve Blancard

Anormal1@... wrote:

> Thank You Steve,
> I was at a TTOS meet 2 weeks ago &
> talked to the Nat. Pres. What started the conversation was my arm load
> of Flyer Sw's. his words after the reg conversation was" You "S" guys
> are starting to come out of the woodwork"
> As to the meters yes I'm going to try to either repair them myself
> or find a co that does & yes make a reas. profit for my efforts. Also
> I really would like to have one to take with me in a search for a
> ready made replacement. I think The radio Shack meters would fit the
> hole but the meter is sq. plastic. that is one way to go but if a
> round metal type could be found,all the better. Theres the chance of
> getting the workings and repairing that way. I worked at SO CAL EDISON
> in the SW & meter Divison, I have some background But not the eyes
> for it.
> Did I mention I would pay the postage? Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18469 From: david.avedesian@clarkconstruction.com Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: 30-60 Degree Crossovers
Gino, thank you for the shout out on the Baltimore Area American Flyer
Club's crossovers.

Having a 30 or 60 degree crossover allows you to do wonderful things on
your layout. I have made over 50 crossovers over the years. On my layout,
I have a curve over a curve (COC) crossover. My COC is on my main line. I
has worked flawless for over 8 years. I also made a double crossover with
a curve. That CO took over 16 hours to make. I had to do it twice. I was
a little off on the track gaps/spacing. It also has been on the layout for
over 8 years. Without either CO, I would have not been able to have as
compact of a track plan.

I have submitted my layout design and photos to Don at S-Gaugian Magazine.
With luck, you all be able to view the layout. If anyone is in the DC area
and would be interested in a layout tour, you need only e-mail or call and
I would happy to "play trains".

David
Group: S-Trains Message: 18470 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Replacement parts and question
I would like to see Northern tenders too. Also affordable
aftermarket Vanderbuilt tender bodys that could fit the three popular
styles of ACG tender chassis would be nice ;-)

Does anyone here know what is involved in mold making and casting in
metal? Is this something that can be done in the garage workshop?

Fred
Group: S-Trains Message: 18471 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Re: 30-60 Degree Crossovers
I just talked to Tom at Classic Trains, the guys that are making the solid
SS rail track system. The crossovers are coming, But they will be the last
items to be done. Their Track system is AF Compat. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18472 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Re: 30-60 Degree Crossovers
Hi David,

I would love to see you make a web site showing off your layout and skills as a builder. There is a little 'how to' section on my web site to help someone get started on their own web site. It's very easy. Here's a link to my web site:

http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html

If you decide to build your own site, I would like to put a link to it on my site.

Good luck!

Are you guys going to be at the Scale show in Timonium this Saturday? I thouroughly enjoyed visiting your modular layout and chatting with you guys. I was very intrigued by your homemade crossings and your articulated loco made from chopped Atlantics. Bravo!

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: david.avedesian@...
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 6:09 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] 30-60 Degree Crossovers



Gino, thank you for the shout out on the Baltimore Area American Flyer
Club's crossovers.

Having a 30 or 60 degree crossover allows you to do wonderful things on
your layout. I have made over 50 crossovers over the years. On my layout,
I have a curve over a curve (COC) crossover. My COC is on my main line. I
has worked flawless for over 8 years. I also made a double crossover with
a curve. That CO took over 16 hours to make. I had to do it twice. I was
a little off on the track gaps/spacing. It also has been on the layout for
over 8 years. Without either CO, I would have not been able to have as
compact of a track plan.

I have submitted my layout design and photos to Don at S-Gaugian Magazine.
With luck, you all be able to view the layout. If anyone is in the DC area
and would be interested in a layout tour, you need only e-mail or call and
I would happy to "play trains".

David


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18473 From: Bill Lane Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: brake wheel
Hi All,

Does anyone know if this brake wheel is exists in S Scale?

http://users.snip.net/~billlane/brakewheel.jpg

Thanks
Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 18474 From: rj4010d Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Arcing in bushings
He's correct about bearing wear!!!! Ask the John Deere Company.
They spent ( and farmers after warranty was out)thousands of dollars
on bearing replacement where they were useing shaft and bearing as
the ground for an electromagnetic clutch. New bearings every year,two
man job,20 man hours!!!! Guess what? After switching to hot and
ground wires through collector ring,bearing failure didn't happen any
longer.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18475 From: Don Thompson Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Re: brake wheel
Dear Bill,
Look at one of our brakewheels on our reefer.
Don

Bill Lane wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Does anyone know if this brake wheel is exists in S Scale?
>
> http://users.snip.net/~billlane/brakewheel.jpg
>
> Thanks
> Bill
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 18476 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: The great coupler experiment (work in progress)
I was curious about the comment I saw that KD O gauge couplers would
couple with both KD802s and Flyer.

I bought a set of O gauge KD 806s (short draft gear) and put them on my
AM AMTRAK sound car tonight, replacing AM S scale "snaplock" couplers.
Lo and behold, the O gauge couplers allowed me to run the AMTRAK train
as usual. The couplers are somewhat oversize and some surgery was
required on the draft gear box to allow adequate truck swing for Flyer
curves and the glad hands needed almost 1/8" shortening and a rebend to
shape. They don't look bad to this old hirailer. So much for coupling
with 802s.

I then placed the sound car behind my new SD60 with the oversize
"crabs". The coupling worked. The only problem I had was a tendency to
pull the car following the sound car off the track at transition into
curves on Flyer radius. This was temporarily solved by coupling my
grossly overweight SHS Pulpwood Flat behind the sound car. I have not
yet experimented with allowing the draft gear box to swivel a few
degrees which should also work. On curves of about 36" radius there was
no problem whatsoever.

This means the SD60 can haul my AM sound car at the next RASG set up on
4/7 at Batavia NY. It also means we can run a sound car on the scale
line by coupling it into a train of all 802s and/or 5's. (haven't tried
it with 5's yet)

If I didn't have so many existing cars I'd convert all my hirail cars to
the ) gauge couplers. They look infinitely better then the Flyer size
but at $3.75 per pair it could add up to real money over 50-100 cars.
Wish I had tried this years ago.
--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18477 From: Gary - Manti Date: 3/21/2002
Subject: Want to trade?
I tried to send this before, but didn't see it come through. If it did,
please excuse!

I have an excellent tuscan 918 mail car that I would like to trade for a
green one if someone is interested. If not, I offer it here to the list
before it goes on e-bay. It does have the pick-up stand and two
reproduction mailbags. Contact me off-list for more information.

Thanks,

Gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 18479 From: Don Thompson Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: Photos from SHS Warehouse Warming
Robin, Mike, Roger and I want to thank everyone who attended and
help make our
Warehouse Warming a success. We have over 100 visitors that weekend and
we
hope that everyone had as nice a time as we did. M. McConnell of the
South
Jersey S Gaugers took and posted some great photos of the event and
posted
them on his club's web page. This was sent to our "Showcase Line"
e-group
and we would like to share them with everyone.
Don
PS We purchased another warehouse unit yesterday.


Subject: [showcaseline] SHS Open House Event
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:40:52 -0500
From: "M.McConnell" <mmcconn@...>
Reply-To: showcaseline@yahoogroups.com
To: showcaseline@yahoogroups.com

On March 2nd several members of the South Jersey S Gaugers paid a visit
to
the S-Helper Service warehouse to participate in their Open House event.
It
was a great time, and we enjoyed it immensely. One of the best
"bargains"
was the opportunity to talk with Don, Robin, Mike and Roger about their
new
products. Some of the club members took pictures (and notes!) and we've
put
them up on our club WEB site so everyone can see what took place. If you

have a minute, go to:
http://www.trainweb.org/sjsg/events/shsopnhse/nwsevnt0.htm

I want to thank Don and Robin for their gracious hospitality, and for
the
opportunity to talk to them about upcoming products (and the bargains
were
kinda' nice too!)

We're looking forward to the next visit!

http://www.trainweb.org/sjsg/events/shsopnhse/nwsevnt0.htm

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 18480 From: Don Thompson Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: Overweight SHS pulpwood cars
Dear Chuck,
Actually, we have replacement loads for the BHFCs and I will have Robin send you
one on Monday. Although these cars are now sold out (overweight yes, but they were
our most popular BHFC's), we still have a few loads. This was an oversight on my
part as I had thought I was approving a plaster cast (or maybe spent uranium) of the
tooling and not the actual urethane loads. Once we discovered the error, our
builder made good and send lighter replacement loads.
Don
PS the original loads make great door stops.



Chuck Smith wrote:

> ....... This was temporarily solved by coupling my grossly overweight SHS Pulpwood
> Flat ......
> --
> Chuck Smith

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 18481 From: kempfam@aol.com Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Route 66
With reference to Mike Leahy's query, catch the train out of Williams AZ to
the Grand Canyon. They have steamers and Alco FA's. Well worth the money
and you will get in a few hours at the Grand Canyon. Plan on one day. Our
train was held up by a couple of masked horsemen.
Ron Kemp
Group: S-Trains Message: 18482 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: The great coupler experiment (work in progress)
Thanks Chuck,
I have bought the 804/805's as per a comment from Roy H., and testing
them on various trouble spots I have with 802's. Me too so far so good! A
good solution when the 802's prove an unrelyable connection. Goodbye to
the last of the AF "Lobster Claws". HSJ

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:46:22 -0500 Chuck Smith <cesmith@...>
writes:
> I was curious about the comment I saw that KD O gauge couplers would
> couple with both KD802s and Flyer.
>
> I bought a set of O gauge KD 806s (short draft gear) and put them on
> my
> AM AMTRAK sound car tonight, replacing AM S scale "snaplock"
> couplers.
> Lo and behold, the O gauge couplers allowed me to run the AMTRAK
> train
> as usual. The couplers are somewhat oversize and some surgery was
> required on the draft gear box to allow adequate truck swing for
> Flyer
> curves and the glad hands needed almost 1/8" shortening and a rebend
> to
> shape. They don't look bad to this old hirailer. So much for
> coupling
> with 802s.
>
> I then placed the sound car behind my new SD60 with the oversize
> "crabs". The coupling worked. The only problem I had was a
> tendency to
> pull the car following the sound car off the track at transition
> into
> curves on Flyer radius. This was temporarily solved by coupling my
> grossly overweight SHS Pulpwood Flat behind the sound car. I have
> not
> yet experimented with allowing the draft gear box to swivel a few
> degrees which should also work. On curves of about 36" radius there
> was
> no problem whatsoever.
>
> This means the SD60 can haul my AM sound car at the next RASG set up
> on
> 4/7 at Batavia NY. It also means we can run a sound car on the scale
> line by coupling it into a train of all 802s and/or 5's. (haven't
> tried
> it with 5's yet)
>
> If I didn't have so many existing cars I'd convert all my hirail
> cars to
> the ) gauge couplers. They look infinitely better then the Flyer
> size
> but at $3.75 per pair it could add up to real money over 50-100
> cars.
> Wish I had tried this years ago.
> --
> Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
> and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
>
> "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
> than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18483 From: finerty, paul Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: LTI PA chassis
David, did you get the chassis and can motors from Fred Jester? As I recall
you did a chassis switchover but still used ACG motors in one of your
experiments and found the bearing still wore out. But if the can motors
work fine, I'd like to try that. You don't happen to have any part numbers
for what you bought, do you? That would give me a great head start. I have
a couple 360's that I'm tired of rebushing sitting on the bench waiting for
a new solution. I'll probably do one with the can motors and wait on the
other one until Steve Blackburn's diesel chassis replacement gets released.

Thanks,

Paul Finerty





>Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:35:53 -0500
> From: "Horn, David" <david.horn@...>
>Subject: RE: replacement/ball bearings

>Arching may be part of it. That certainly would help explain why even a
>high quality light white Teflon-impregnated grease (LaBelle 106) in axle
>bushings can turn to a gray paste, especially in the case of 355 Baldwin,
>unless you occasionally "refresh" it with a little drop of compatible oil
>(#107 or 108). With that it's slicker than a Bourbon Street barker.

>But FYI, I did rebushed an ACG 360's original chassis and added wires from
>its pick-up feet. Still it consumed those new brass oilite bushings way
>faster than it should have (since then I converted it to use two post 1992
>LTI cans with matching chassis, no problems any more). Also I added wires
>to both trucks of my 470 SF PA, but even with fresh new LTI chassis (still
>with ACG armatures, etc.) it has required bushing replacements during the
>same time that my LTI 48114 NP PA is still on its original everything.

>PS Lionel diesels have a vintage chart. I still need to find the time to
>sum it all up and post that, but there were 3-4 timeframes since they were
>first introduced during which different components were used and
>subsequently different results/performance can be expected. The bottom
>line, the more recent the manufacture (especially if late 1991 and later),
>the better.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18484 From: royhoffman Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: The great coupler experiment (work in progress)
Howell & Chuck,

I'm glad it held up with "live" testing. I made a quick assessment by
just hand-coupling the 805's with 802's, #5's, and AF's.
I still think that a cheaper coupler made for S and with the same
attributes as the KD #805 would go over big and look good in those
Ads. Maybe KD can come up with a cheaper version. Like Chuck, I used
"confusion cars" for years with great results. On my highrail PW, I
could run freights with AF, #802's, #5's and AM's flawlessly. As a
current scaler, sometimes I really miss those days.

Roy

--- In S-Trains@y..., Howell S Jobbins <hsjobbins@j...> wrote:
> Thanks Chuck,
> I have bought the 804/805's as per a comment from Roy H., and
testing
> them on various trouble spots I have with 802's. Me too so far so
good! A
> good solution when the 802's prove an unrelyable connection.
Goodbye to
> the last of the AF "Lobster Claws". HSJ
>
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:46:22 -0500 Chuck Smith <cesmith@e...>
> writes:
> > I was curious about the comment I saw that KD O gauge couplers
would
> > couple with both KD802s and Flyer.
> >
> > I bought a set of O gauge KD 806s (short draft gear) and put them
on
> > my
> > AM AMTRAK sound car tonight, replacing AM S scale "snaplock"
> > couplers.
> > Lo and behold, the O gauge couplers allowed me to run the AMTRAK
> > train
> > as usual. The couplers are somewhat oversize and some surgery was
> > required on the draft gear box to allow adequate truck swing for
> > Flyer
> > curves and the glad hands needed almost 1/8" shortening and a
rebend
> > to
> > shape. They don't look bad to this old hirailer. So much for
> > coupling
> > with 802s.
> >
> > I then placed the sound car behind my new SD60 with the oversize
> > "crabs". The coupling worked. The only problem I had was a
> > tendency to
> > pull the car following the sound car off the track at transition
> > into
> > curves on Flyer radius. This was temporarily solved by coupling
my
> > grossly overweight SHS Pulpwood Flat behind the sound car. I have
> > not
> > yet experimented with allowing the draft gear box to swivel a few
> > degrees which should also work. On curves of about 36" radius
there
> > was
> > no problem whatsoever.
> >
> > This means the SD60 can haul my AM sound car at the next RASG set
up
> > on
> > 4/7 at Batavia NY. It also means we can run a sound car on the
scale
> > line by coupling it into a train of all 802s and/or 5's.
(haven't
> > tried
> > it with 5's yet)
> >
> > If I didn't have so many existing cars I'd convert all my hirail
> > cars to
> > the ) gauge couplers. They look infinitely better then the Flyer
> > size
> > but at $3.75 per pair it could add up to real money over 50-100
> > cars.
> > Wish I had tried this years ago.
> > --
> > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
> > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines.
http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
> >
> > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
> > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
Group: S-Trains Message: 18485 From: Keith Kuzma Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Ebay item
What is this,who made it? 1714968384


Keith


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 18486 From: ron inscho Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay item
This is an American Models GP- 35 still currently made
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Kuzma" <keithkuzma@...>
To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 12:26 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Ebay item


> What is this,who made it? 1714968384
>
>
> Keith
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18487 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Can Motors
We are posting this email we got today regarding our can motors.
We have been telling you about their efficiency for a year now and this from
a consumer tells it from another perspective. This is the "regular" motor
too, not the "hi-Torque" lower geared motor.

Regards to all...Steve & Sam

> In a message dated 03/21/2002 5:02:02 PM Mountain Standard Time,
> srs@... writes:
>
>
> >> Steve & Sam,
>>
>> I have 2 1/2% grade on my layout. Have your can motor in a 303 chassis
>> with pull-mor wheels, and a 4-piece die cast boiler mounted on it. Just
>> pulled 36 cars, a combination of AF, SHS, and AM. Wheel spin is the
>> limiting factor. Did this at half throttle, 11.8 volts, for about 1
>> hour. Motor was cool to the touch.
>>
>> Great motor, will try one in a 336.
>>
>> Steve Lunde
>>
>>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18488 From: Rick Evans Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: On30 caboose conversion....
I bought a On30 caboose the other day for $24.95+ tax, to convert over.
I was going to use Flyer trucks, but have decided of using SHS. Anyway...
while checking out the caboose, I noticed a little wire to one of the trucks,..
then noticed the other truck also had a small wire,...wow! This thing actually
has lights in it. Upon taking the caboose apart,..it has a single bulb at the top,...
also,...a detailed interior,..nothing great,...but a pot bellied stove, cabinets,..and
two beds!! It has small windows though and even with the light on,..
not sure how you would see the detail,...but still I thought that was pretty cool!

I will have to put a couple of people in there. Anyway,...I have contacted Robin and Don
at SHS,...I have ordered some trucks and couplers,...and also asked them,..and now I will ask
you all,...where might I find longer screws,...(and no jokes!!)...just like what SHS uses
to hold on their trucks,...but I need them longer. Any ideas??

Thanks,
Rick.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18489 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: 18B & 30B TRANSFORMERS
Question on the 18B & 30B transformers. First are the fixed voltage posts
tied together inside the transformer (coming off one tap)? Do they have
circuit breaker protection like the variable posts do? Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18490 From: Peter Ervin Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Timonium this weekend?
Is something happening in Timonium, Maryland this weekend? Someone
mentioned it in S-Trains. Anything else happening in the DC, Baltimore,
Pittsburgh triangle?

Peter Ervin
Group: S-Trains Message: 18491 From: Steve Blancard Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: On30 caboose conversion....
The Bachmann ON30s are nice aren't they ? After converting the gondola, I've been thinking about
doing a tank car or a caboose next. You may have made my decision.

Steve Blancard

Rick Evans wrote:

> I bought a On30 caboose the other day for $24.95+ tax, to convert over.
> I was going to use Flyer trucks, but have decided of using SHS. Anyway...
> while checking out the caboose, I noticed a little wire to one of the trucks,..
> then noticed the other truck also had a small wire,...wow! This thing actually
> has lights in it. Upon taking the caboose apart,..it has a single bulb at the top,...
> also,...a detailed interior,..nothing great,...but a pot bellied stove, cabinets,..and
> two beds!! It has small windows though and even with the light on,..
> not sure how you would see the detail,...but still I thought that was pretty cool!
>
> I will have to put a couple of people in there. Anyway,...I have contacted Robin and Don
> at SHS,...I have ordered some trucks and couplers,...and also asked them,..and now I will ask
> you all,...where might I find longer screws,...(and no jokes!!)...just like what SHS uses
> to hold on their trucks,...but I need them longer. Any ideas??
>
> Thanks,
> Rick.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18492 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: Timonium this weekend?
Hi,

There is a scale model train show in Timonium, MD this weekend. They emphasize, "no tinplate". I was thinking of going anyway, 'cuz - Hey! It's trains! I would like to know of any train shows in the area you just mentioned as well. There is a show on April 7th in Hanover, PA (I think), but I can't find anything about it online.

We need more train shows!
-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Ervin
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 4:36 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Timonium this weekend?


Is something happening in Timonium, Maryland this weekend? Someone
mentioned it in S-Trains. Anything else happening in the DC, Baltimore,
Pittsburgh triangle?

Peter Ervin


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18493 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: 18B & 30B TRANSFORMERS
Thank You Steve, Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18494 From: gino restivo Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: re ; MD. area shows
hi all , their are two shows this weekend around
the balto, m d area they are

scale - hi-rail show at timonium fairgrounds sat / sun
seperate buildings for each i'm told ...........use the
park n ride lot on weekends was recommended or
maybe take the lite rail train ?

T.T.O.S. show at Earleigh Heights fire house-hall
on sunday only

THE BALTO AREA AMERICAN FLYER CLUB will
be at the fire hall on sunday with their modular
layout, if you going ask about getting those 30 -
60 degree x-ings from someone


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18495 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: re ; MD. area shows
Hi Gino, if you need any orig. parts to copy , just let me know. Will not be
at TTOS Sun. Has anyone reproed the larger coal tray for the 5 digit coal
dump cars ? Also Christmas trees for CP flat?
Harwood



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18496 From: Horn, David Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Lionel Gabe operation tips
I bought a Lionel Gabe. It worked great out of the box! But only for 5
trips up and down the ladder, and then it became very unreliable :< Gabe
started missing steps and jamming (i.e. all the noises, but Gabe just hopped
without actually progressing up the ladder a rung). I let it cool, thinking
maybe the solenoid was hot and therefore not working crisply. Nope. That
wasn't it.

To make a long story short, I got Flyonel Gabe working bullet-proof reliably
again, but it took a little work. The critical issue is the lousy rivet
used to hold the advance (i.e. 'Up") prawl to the main solenoid's flapper
plate. The rivet is very soft and if poorly installed, as was the case with
mine, soon develops too much play allowing the prawl to travel laterally
outward toward the edge of the ratchets on the drum, and potentially stub
itself on a ratchet instead of completely pushing it forward. Ergo the
occasional misfire with all the noise and initially some movement up, but
then Gabe doesn't stay there and slips back down. I replaced the rivet with
a 1/4" 2x56 bolt, a washer, and two nuts set against each other. Gabe now
fails to miss a beat no matter how rapidly I make him climb up the ladder!
The nuts, bolts, and washer are available at Radio Shack.

I bent the small tab that the rivet once went through so that the bolt
extends out parallel to the plane of the plate (to get a nicely aligned
drive of the brass prawl toward the ratcheted drum). I also made a flat
spot on the head of the bolt to let it fit in against the main plate and
pass through the hole that formerly held the rivet. The washer I mentioned
should go next to the nuts as a preventative measure for the prawl not to
loosen them. However, once set against each other the nuts lock into place
nicely (plus a little future glue on them as extra insurance and they aren't
going anywhere this century). I had to file down the end of the bolt,
prawl, washer, and 2-nuts assembly about 1 mm so it cleared the inner wall
of the housing inside which it swings, but that's easy, and it serves to
help guide the prawl in for a direct hit on the each awaiting ratchet.

Another tip - - if your descent prawl lifts up to the smaller secondary
solenoid, but fails to release right away when you try to make Gabe climb
again, then gently bend the descent prawl's tip near the solenoid so it
angles away from the secondary solenoid a little bit. This reduces its
lasting attraction to the solenoid and it releases more reliably upon either
Gabe hitting the base at the end of a trip down, or the first time you press
the ascent button.

One last helpful hint. If your red or green buttons have the tendency to
kick out (i.e. get crooked, these are really cheapo button assemblies), try
making each button solid-core instead of hollow-core by adding a piece of
dowel inside. This made a world of difference with mine.

In the end, I am very glad I bought the Flyer (albeit Lionel Flyer) version.
Now that it's running well, the auto-on/off feature is IMHO the way it
should have been built in the first place. And you don't have to make Gabe
climb up to shut off the lamps. Simply put the unit on a master on/off
switch (mine's on a selector) and it resets the unit off 'til the next
ascent. Oh, btw it takes 42 clicks to get him up there. The MTH unit I
played with last weekend (very nice by the way, not a single glitch in its
running), took 40-41 clicks. They're basically the same in that regard.

I found that after my repairs, Flyonel Gabe works well with a few different
transformers and voltages although by no means did I exhaustively experiment
with this aspect of his operation. But 15v with 250w, or 16v with 50w both,
for examples, worked fine.

Have fun!

PS Sorry I couldn't provide any pics or more details. However, I just got
assigned to head up a task force at work. I'm going to be even busier than
usual for at least a month or two, so I thought I'd at least quickly jot
down my notes in case it helps any of you in the meantime.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18497 From: crustyfour Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Bachmann ON30 conversion to S photos
I just uploaded 3 photos of the Bachmann ON30 gondola I converted to S
a few days ago, using Flyer trucks. They are in the files section,
Bachmann ON30 converions folder:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 18498 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, March 24, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains
Group: S-Trains Message: 18499 From: crustyfour Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Steamer front coupler drawing
I just uploaded Jerry Dobbs' front coupler converion drawing to the
files section. Jerry e-mailed it to me and graciously allowed me to
post it for all to see.
Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 18500 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: Steamer front coupler drawing
I can't find it.
----- Original Message -----
From: crustyfour
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 8:09 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Steamer front coupler drawing


I just uploaded Jerry Dobbs' front coupler converion drawing to the
files section. Jerry e-mailed it to me and graciously allowed me to
post it for all to see.
Steve Blancard


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18501 From: Don Thompson Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: On30 caboose conversion....
How long?
Don

Rick Evans wrote:

> ...and now I will ask you all,...where might I find longer screws,...(and no jokes!!)...just
> like what SHS uses to hold on their trucks,...but I need them longer. Any ideas??
>
> Thanks,
> Rick.
>

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18502 From: Steve Blancard Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: Steamer front coupler drawing
Its listed as a pilot truck drawing, towards the end of the list. Here's a link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/piolet%20truck%20dwg..jpg

Steve Blancard

Tim Brown wrote:

> I can't find it.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: crustyfour
> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 8:09 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] Steamer front coupler drawing
>
> I just uploaded Jerry Dobbs' front coupler converion drawing to the
> files section. Jerry e-mailed it to me and graciously allowed me to
> post it for all to see.
> Steve Blancard
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18503 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: Re: On30 caboose conversion....
You might find it at:

http://microfasteners.com

They have a great selection and service.

Carl


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.tuveson.com
Check out the New AF Loco Geared Drive Kit !
Buy it on line with PayPal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Thompson [mailto:robin@...]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 9:34 PM
To: Rick Evans
Cc: S-Trains
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] On30 caboose conversion....


How long?
Don

Rick Evans wrote:

> ...and now I will ask you all,...where might I find longer screws,...(and
no jokes!!)...just
> like what SHS uses to hold on their trucks,...but I need them longer. Any
ideas??
>
> Thanks,
> Rick.
>

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18504 From: gino restivo Date: 3/22/2002
Subject: re, parts n pc's
thanks harwood , i'll probably get started on the C.P.trees
just about york time need to do a load of handcar fig,and
x-ing arms , etc.
when is the next show you will be at ?
do you have a current e-mail for ralph lovelace
thanks , gino


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18505 From: robbyking13 Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: Rail And Track Gauge
Rail, ties, spikes, etc. can be purchased from BTS. The BTS website
address is www.btsrr.com. The BTS phone number is 813 643 1105. The
address is BTS, P O Box 561, Seffner, FL 33583-0561.

Robby King
Group: S-Trains Message: 18506 From: robbyking13 Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: Rail And Track Gauge
Track information is listed on the "S" Scale Model Railroading
Homepage (trainweb.com/crocom/sscale.html) under Track and Track
Laying.

To update that info: Tomalco code 100 flex track is currently
available.

Robert King
Group: S-Trains Message: 18507 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: [Fwd: [S-Trains] Train Show Display]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18508 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Train Show layout.
Check this out.
Gene
http://allaboardsetsclub.org
Group: S-Trains Message: 18509 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: replacement/ball bearings
>Arcing may be part of it. That certainly would help explain why even a
>high quality light white Teflon-impregnated grease (LaBelle 106) in axle
>bushings can turn to a gray paste, especially in the case of 355 Baldwin,
>unless you occasionally "refresh" it with a little drop of compatible oil
>(#107 or 108).

You should not have current passing through bearing surfaces. To do so is
bad engineering. Arcing will occur in some manner even if it is nothing
more than an electrolytic action through the grease. That will chemically
alter the composition of the grease and change it's lubricating
characteristics.

The best engineering solution is to pass the current through another, more
positive pickup, and, if possible, insulate the wheels. In toy train land,
this may not be a viable alternative. We just ordered the Caig M260CP
contact enhancing lubricator paste. This material has a grease like
consistency that will not break down in electrical contact situations. It
can be spread on a diesel motor shaft to lubricate the bead bushing while
allowing arcless conduction under load.

I realize that, once again, I am promoting Cramolin Paste, but, hey, when
you've got a panacea, stick with it!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18510 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Hack, Hack, Cough, Cough (was: Re: 30B meters & smoke fluid)
Steve Blancard said:
>The N gauge guys who were
>in the same room kept squawking about the smoke on Saturday.

There you go. Proof positive of just how far removed N gauge is from real
railroading.

To paraphrase Teddy Roosevelt: "If you can't stand the smoke, get out of the
train room!"

BTW: Mike, Thanks for the bottle of #4. I will try it as soon as I have
some room to set up a length of track and run my new little 342 around.


Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18511 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: SHS Warehouse Warming
Don Thompson said:
>PS We purchased another warehouse unit yesterday.

Don:
I missed it! Let's warm the new one you bought!
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18512 From: Bill Lane Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Pennsy S Models Website
Hi All,

The Pennsy S Models website is back up. www.pennsysmodels.com We are still
not sure why it was down. Does anyone know of where we can find reasonably
priced and reliable internet space that we can use own domain name? Please
reply to me privately.

Thanks
Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 18513 From: gawilson Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: AuctionGator.com is back online...collectors service for ebay
Please excuse the off-topic post but there are a lot of members of
this group that use AuctionGator.com.

After 2 months of down-time, AuctionGator.com is back online.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Here is the original post that initially told this group about the
service:

As a collector myself, I was constantly logging into eBay to search
for particular items. I finally created a service to do the
searching
for me.

www.auctiongator.com is a free service (a few banner ads) that will
search for whatever description you wish on eBay every 4,8,12 or 24
hours and email you a list of all items that match since the last
search. The email is well formatted with hyperlinks to the auction.

The service also includes several email auction tracking features.

For more info or to sign up, go to www.auctiongator.com

Also, I am looking for a good way to get the word out to other
collectors as well. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Greg
Group: S-Trains Message: 18514 From: erielackawanna76 Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Crossing signal flasher circuit
Hello everyone:

I'd like to know if anyone would be interested in a crossing signal
flasher circuit that would be:

1) ready to hook up to a signal
2) work on 12 to 16 volts AC or DC
3) have the capacity to flash several signals at the same time
4) cost under $15.00?

John
Group: S-Trains Message: 18515 From: Victor Bereskin Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1387
The 18B and 30B transformers are a single transformer with two variable
voltage taps. Since there is only a single transformer inside the case, the
two fixed voltage taps are two connections to the same point, i.e.: they are
connected together. The circuit breaker is on the common connection so that
it protects both the fixed and the variable outputs. The only American
Flyer dual control power supply with two seperate transformers inside was
the 22090 350 watt unit. The fixed outputs a not connected on that unit
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:22:19 EST
> From: anormal1@...
> Subject: 18B & 30B TRANSFORMERS
>
> Question on the 18B & 30B transformers. First are the fixed voltage posts
> tied together inside the transformer (coming off one tap)? Do they have
> circuit breaker protection like the variable posts do? Mike S.
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18516 From: Peter Ervin Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Vintage AF code minimum
What's the lowest rail code (148, 125, 100, etc) that vintage AF can
traverse without problems? This will be hand laid track.

Peter Ervin
Group: S-Trains Message: 18517 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Broken Hand Car Nub
Hello Group,

What's the best way to re-attach a broken hand car nub?

Thanks,

BG1
Group: S-Trains Message: 18518 From: David Dewey Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: Crossing signal flasher circuit
John,
Hmm, I think you'll get an avalanche of YES! responses. On Howar'S
trainS layout, we have a bell danger signal that, if we aren't careful in
switching, can end up with a car wheel on one of the trips. The result is
smoke eminating from the gatehouse, and an unpleasant odor! I have added a
6volt automobile flasher that does give it some relief, but not enough. At
least now when a car wheel is setting on the trip, the lights blink and the
bell dings lightly so the operator SHOULD notice the problem. At least
that's what I though would happen, but I have missed it once or twice.
IF the switching is done "normally" the trips are not in the way, but
once in a while a the cars will coast a bit after uncoupling, and that's the
problem--and not enough room to move the trip elsewhere.
So, YES!!! I am interested!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18519 From: Robert Wight Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: 736 operating car
Folks; On my 736 operaing car. Ideas on how to make the milk jugs roll down
the rollers better? Thanks.
Happy Railroading
Bob Wight



http://www.boomspeed.com/bobgaylord/


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 18520 From: gino restivo Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: re,broken nubs , flasher circuit
hi all , i've repaired many handcar nubs with a
touch of super glue

their are several circuits available for x-ing
flasher lites both ready made and D.I.Y
some rec using the small G.O.W. bulbs
or l.e.d.'s
have fun , gino


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18521 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: Vintage AF code minimum
Code 125. There are said to be a few pieces that need > code 125. Use
125 and assume virtually all Flyer runs on it, or use code 148 to be
absolutely sure. SHS uses code 125 and I have heard of no Flyer that
doesn't work on it.

Peter Ervin wrote:
>
> What's the lowest rail code (148, 125, 100, etc) that vintage AF can
> traverse without problems? This will be hand laid track.
>
> Peter Ervin
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18522 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: crossing signal flasher circuit.
John: a crossing flasher circuit would be a welcome addition, but please
make it able to handle up to 24 volts AC just to be safe. Some of us use
mysterious sources of power.

However , what is REALLY needed is a circuit that will cut off power to ANY
Flyer solenoid if it persists for too long. This would include switch
motors, bell danger signals, crossing gates, semaphores, etc. I don't know
if a timer device or a thermal sensor taped to each solenoid would work
best, but it should be inexpenmsive enough that it can be purchased and
applied in large quantities.

Also, is there any chance of getting your train detector with DPDT contacts?

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18523 From: Alex Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: Crossing signal flasher circuit
Hi John:

You can accomplish this with a 555 oscillator chip (25-cents a pop) and a
few 10-cent resistors and capacitors. The 555 can drive LEDs directly,
sinking and sourcing (ON and OFF, alternately), or even drive a relay to
power bigger incandescent lamps. If you use a double throw relay, you can
drive one set of bulbs on each relay circuit so that they alternate.

Also, a Type 4060 chip (50-cents at Radio Snack), can be used. Check out the
how-to 4060 circuit suggestions and building techniques at
http://www.starshipmodeler.com/tech/cj_blink.htm

Circuits for LED flashers are found in almost every electronics hobbyist
handbook too. Check your local library shelves under Dewey Decimal catalog
#623.1.

Use a bridge diode to provide DC from ac track circuits to power these
circuits. If you use DC to run your trains, you won't need the bridge
rectifier/filter.

== Alex in Maine



-----Original Message-----
From: erielackawanna76 [mailto:erielackawanna76@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 9:16 AM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Crossing signal flasher circuit


Hello everyone:

I'd like to know if anyone would be interested in a crossing signal
flasher circuit that would be:

1) ready to hook up to a signal
2) work on 12 to 16 volts AC or DC
3) have the capacity to flash several signals at the same time
4) cost under $15.00?

John


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18524 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: Crossing signal flasher circuit
--- David Dewey <djdewey@...> wrote:
> I have added a 6volt automobile flasher...

Can you provide some details on how you did this?



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards�
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18525 From: bassflyer Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: On30 caboose conversion....
I think that I have found some machine screws at my local train store
that might do the trick.

Also the owner, Anita, says she will try to get a dealer catalog from
SHS. Maybe we can switch over some of the HO guys in my area!! ;-)

Also bought a On30 Gondola today to convert over,...$19.95,..only
cost me about $10,....had a $10 Jan. birthday gift certficate to the
store,...finally used it!

Thanks for info on screw sources!

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18526 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: On30 caboose conversion....
Do they make an ore car in On30. just thinking of a gravel&open mine that I
would like to model. also did they make a Shay engine also? Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18527 From: robbyking13 Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: Vintage AF Code Minimum
Code 148 never existed.

Code 125 has big enough looks for AF hirail wheel flanges. Code 125
is a prototypical track. The PRR used code 125 in mainline service
from the 1950's to the Penn Central merger.

Code 100, in addition to code 125, actually works too. I have
Tomalco Code 100 flex track. The AF rolling stock has the largest
wheel flange and even they do not rub against the ties.

Robby King
Group: S-Trains Message: 18528 From: bassflyer Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Mix and match....
While playing around with the On30 caboose, and now a gondola,..I
put one pair of On30 trucks on the SHS reefer that I had removed a
truck from. Soooo....for those that have bought a Bachmann On30 set
of freight or coaches, and a loco, and like the HO track,...you can
run your SHS reefers or other rolling stock on the HO track by
switching the trucks, and mix and matching of the couplers.

Boy,...the fun never ends,..does it??

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18529 From: wsor6045 Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Fwd: The Toy Train Barn
--- In WSOR@y..., "Jim" <wsor753@c...> wrote:



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free by AVG Anti Virus
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.342 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 03/14/2002

A barn in Southern Wisconsin that less than a year ago was home to a
herd of dairy cows has been transformed into a toy train museum.

The barn is owned by longtime Wisconsin & Southern / Wisconsin &
Calumet
Engineer Buck Guthrie. He is a lifelong collector of American Flyer
Trains as well as other toy trains. During the past year the barn has
been remodelled to house Buck's large collection and layouts. The Toy
Train Barn opened for public display this past December. Operating
display layouts range from tiny Z scale to G scale along with tin
plate
and depression era toy trains. The largest layout is the American
Flyer
S gauge collection. The layout features numerous animated action
scenes
many created from Buck's ingenuity with electronics and creative
imagination. There is also a large collection of photos and railroad
memorabilia from Buck's career as a Engineer and Conductor.

Outside a 14" gauge railroad that visitors will be able to ride known
as
the Green County Gulch Railroad is being constructed. The GCG is being
built on 18 scenic hilly acres ( near the highest point in Green
County
) that include a natural springs and creek. The Green County Gulch
Railroad will feature a turntable, water tower, depots. many curves
and
trestles, semaphore signals, wig-wags etc. when completed this summer.

The Toy Train Barn is open daily from 10:00 - 5:00
Located 7.5 miles west of Monroe WI on Hwy 81 ..... look for the large
Milwaukee Road orange and grey barn ......You can't miss it !

W9141 Hwy 81
Argyle, WI. 53504 ( 608 ) 966-1464

Admission
Adults $5
Children $ 2.50

Buck's co-worker
Wisconsin & Southern Engineer & Conductor
Robert Eineke

Hope to see you there : )
--- End forwarded message ---
Group: S-Trains Message: 18530 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Show this weekend.
I'll be giving the Long Island Live steamers a hand on Sunday at the
Greenberg Train Show in Stony Brook (University). If any of you are going
to be there, stop by and say hello.

Show opens to the public at 10, runs until 4.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18531 From: Steve Blancard Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: On30 caboose conversion....
No ore cars at present. I heard rumor that a Shay may be coming next year. Kool!

Steve Blancard

anormal1@... wrote:

> Do they make an ore car in On30. just thinking of a gravel&open mine that I
> would like to model. also did they make a Shay engine also? Mike S.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18533 From: joe messinger Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: What happened?
I was just watching a 634 Searchlight Car on Ebay. It looked pretty nice
and I thought I might toss in a last minute bid. With 4 minutes and 12
seconds left, there were 5 bids and the price was $ 15.00. I hit "refresh"
and the bidding was closed! (wasn't listed as a "Buy It Now"). The info,
said "No Bids" and the price was $ 9.99. It started 3/16, 19:46:19 and when
it ended today, the close time went from 19:46:19 to 19:42:12.

The item # is 1714195653, in case you want to have a look.

Just wondered if anyone has seen this happen before and what the deal was?

Joe Messinger


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Group: S-Trains Message: 18534 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: What happened?
Go to the item & click on the bid history. That will explain it all. If you
have more questions click on the Ask The Seller a Question as to why he ended
the auction early. I don't know if E-Bay requires a reason, It may but only
to the bidders. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18535 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/23/2002
Subject: Re: (no subject)
What the heck was THAT all about?

Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18536 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: (no subject)
What was what about? Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18537 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: E-BAY ITEM
This may be the most descriptive item description E-BAY. Mike S.
E-BAY Item# 1716279403


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18538 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: On30 caboose conversion....
On the shay...Look at the BACHMANN site..They said Oct...BTW I have several
sets for sale at 130.00...Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Blancard" <splitdorf@...>
Cc: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: On30 caboose conversion....


> No ore cars at present. I heard rumor that a Shay may be coming next
year. Kool!
>
> Steve Blancard
>
> anormal1@... wrote:
>
> > Do they make an ore car in On30. just thinking of a gravel&open mine
that I
> > would like to model. also did they make a Shay engine also? Mike S.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18539 From: kempfam@aol.com Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Fwd: Route 66
Let's try this again.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18540 From: Robert Wight Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Wow, Im very Sorry
Im very very sorry about that post were the subject line said none. A good
buddy of mine is a pschologist and we throw ideas back and forth. That was a
reply to him. How the heck I sent it to S-trains ill never know. But please
excuse me. Im very imbarressed. I think ill go back under my rock for a
while now.
Bob Wight



Check Out My American Flyer Trains
http://www.boomspeed.com/bobgaylord/


_________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18541 From: af21115 Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: What happened?
Joe, the answer is right there on the auction page.

"The seller ended this listing early because the item is no longer
available for sale."

This is illegal as far as e-bay rules are concerned, especially if he
had bids, as at that point he had a legal binding contract of sale.
He could not legally sell it behind the scenes at a local show or to
a collector in his store etc. I've seen this happen when the seller
has no clue, and puts the item out with no reserve and a reasonable
starting price, then some know it all comes along and tells the
seller its rare or worth a fortune. They panic and pull the auction
in fear of loosing a bundle. On the other hand, I've had an auction
up and accidentally broke the item rendering it worthless. I e-mailed
the bidders and explained the situation before retracting their bids
and closing the auction. I also put that down in the explanation so
people knew it was a legitimate closure.

If he didn't have a legitimate explanation like the item was stolen
or had gotten damaged, I would complain to e-bay for sure so they
know it happened. If they won't accept your compnaint, maybe get with
one of the previous bidders who had their bids cancelled and have
them do it.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18542 From: Paul Yorke Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Links Links and more Links
I updated several of my links yesterday.

I removed some dead links and added some new live ones to
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/links/links.htm
If you have a website please check and make sure you are still
connected.

My internal link page was also updated.
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/links/features.htm
I added a link to Silverton Central -
http://www.homestead.com/pyorke/files/sc/
Robert Conner's Empire -
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/robertc/robert_conner.html
Panorama Train Photo -
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/photos/layout_s2.jpg
'The Detective" train sensor -
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/diagram/detective.html

If I have left out your favorite link, please keep reminding me, I am
not the most organized person, and I do have a life outside running
S-Trains.com.

See ya Sunday night!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18543 From: David Dewey Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: Wow, Im very Sorry
Bob,
Blame it on the software. All is forgiven!!
:-)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18544 From: HOGHEADHAT@AOL.COM Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: hoghead hatwear update
Hello, We now have 43 RR logo hatwear designs and will have over 50 next
month.
All members of this site please take $2 off all hats till end of March. Send
mailing address for flyer. Hatwear can be seen at
http://cencalrails.railfan.net/hoghead.html highball the
rollbye!
Best regards, Kent Kahle hoghead hatwear - the only RR logo hats made in the
USA!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18545 From: Bill Lane Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: A few photos for you
Hi All,

I stumbled across some old slides yesterday, so I scanned and printed a few
of them. They were marked AUG 1968 on the border. As the youngest of 3, the
family camera did not get pointed in my direction often; hence the urgency
in processing Christmas 1967 slides. Years of therapy have done me well. :)

ANYWAY, they are pretty self-explanatory. It just proves that even the
biggest rivet counting Slobbering Pennsy Freak had to start somewhere.

http://users.snip.net/~billlane/aftrains1968.jpg

http://users.snip.net/~billlane/xmas1968.jpg

Thanks
Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 18546 From: roy inman Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Kansas City S Gaugers
Hi all,
Our Kansas City S Gaugers group is getting rejuvenated.
We have a small core group and large plans and we want to expand our ranks.
Most of the folks are interested in Flyer and high rail, but several own and
operate scale. Our 46 foot modular layout will accommodate both scale and
high rail.
S gaugers with scale and flyer/high rail interests, within striking distance
of the Kansas City area are welcome.
We plan to set up at the Indian Springs train show in Kansas City, Kansas
this year, and again run a holiday display at a local venue. The Springs
show was formerly at Reardon Community Center, also in KCK.
To join us please contact:
Paul Stevens
9619 N. W. 71st St
Parkville, MO 64152
816-741-1505
Or, email me and I will forward.
Roy Inman
Group: S-Trains Message: 18547 From: David Dewey Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: Crossing signal flasher circuit
Scott,
My system is pretty basic, 1950's technology. I bought a standard 6 volt
automobile flasher and cut the 15V wire from my transformer to the bell
danger, and connected the ends to the X and L posts of the flasher. It
doesn't effect the normal operation of the bell danger, but if a trip is
stuck on, it will begin flashing the lights. This unit powers both a bell
danger and a road crossing light unit, the four-bulb load may be important,
as the flasher is just a bi-electric switch.
As I mentioned, the flashing isn't enough to keep the coil from
overheating though! It needs more rest time than the flasher gives. It does
help, and the blinking does help to get someone's attention, hopefully
before the smokestack on the shack roof becomes a functioning feature!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18548 From: ironhors@swbell.net Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: What happened?
af21115 wrote:

> Joe, the answer is right there on the auction page.
>
> "The seller ended this listing early because the item is no longer
> available for sale."
>
> This is illegal as far as e-bay rules are concerned, especially if he
> had bids, as at that point he had a legal binding contract of sale.
> He could not legally sell it behind the scenes at a local show or to
> a collector in his store etc. I've seen this happen when the seller
> has no clue, and puts the item out with no reserve and a reasonable
> starting price, then some know it all comes along and tells the
> seller its rare or worth a fortune. They panic and pull the auction
> in fear of loosing a bundle. On the other hand, I've had an auction
> up and accidentally broke the item rendering it worthless. I e-mailed
> the bidders and explained the situation before retracting their bids
> and closing the auction. I also put that down in the explanation so
> people knew it was a legitimate closure.
>
> If he didn't have a legitimate explanation like the item was stolen
> or had gotten damaged, I would complain to e-bay for sure so they
> know it happened. If they won't accept your compnaint, maybe get with
> one of the previous bidders who had their bids cancelled and have
> them do it.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Could be this "Instant Purchase" thing I hear ads for--I think it is AOL who has ads
that say if you see want you want on auction and you want to buy it NOW, you just
click somewhere and close the deal--is E-Bay in on this?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18549 From: David Dewey Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: What happened?
EBay has a "buy it now" feature that allows you to pick stuff up immediately
for a pre-set price. I just used it to pick up some repro bumpers that I
thought were priced right.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18550 From: af21115 Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: What happened?
This was NOT a Buy It Now auction. In a Buy It Now auction it clearly
states when the auction ends due to someone using that feature, and
the amount the transaction ended for. This auction is clearly marked
that the "seller ended the auction early because the item is no
longer available". The seller also went in and cancelled all of the
bids with a canned excuse that the bid was cancelled by the seller.
According to E-bay rules, once a bid is placed you have a binding
contract. On the other hand they say the seller can cancel the
auction at will with the permission of the bidders. Well, either you
have a binding contract, or its all a load of crap. I hate credit
card company type rules myself. The seller should have contacted each
bidder, and asked their permission to have their bid cancelled. IF
the seller got permission from all bidders to do so, they can cancel
the auction only after they cancel all of the bids, and put a VALID
explanation on each cancellation. From what I see he has no valid
explanation on any of the cancellations, and I doubt they contacted
each bidder for the required permission. IMHO, a seller to avoid.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18551 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: What happened? ANSWER: E-Bay happened
Here is something I learned about E-Bay. They protect the seller at all
costs, the seller is the one paying the fees. If you try to look up neg
feedback instead of it being where you can look it up readily you have to
scroll through hundreds of feedback comments instead of making it easy to
find. If you want to cancel your bid good luck in finding the way to do it.
Again it takes along time. I have bookmarked that page for ease of access
(Not that I retract bids all the time but now & then it happens for good
reason). Has anyone asked the seller why he withdrew the item, I would but
I'm on my way to a TTOS Meet. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18552 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: What happened?
Me thinks that some of us are spending way, way to much time staring at eBay
and not nearly enough time running, fixing, or building the true object of
our affections! <g>

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 18553 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: SELLERS NEGS
Go to "basestealer.com" and type in the sellers or buyers id.....BINGO...all
negs are listed....Mine included...."I had to rush out of town for a court
hearing at the last minute....When i returned I had to put my wife in the
hospital over...THE NEWBE COULDN"T WAIT 7 DAYS FOR AN ANSWER TO HIS E
-MAIL"
----- Original Message -----
From: <anormal1@...>
To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: What happened? ANSWER: E-Bay happened


> Here is something I learned about E-Bay. They protect the seller at all
> costs, the seller is the one paying the fees. If you try to look up neg
> feedback instead of it being where you can look it up readily you have to
> scroll through hundreds of feedback comments instead of making it easy to
> find. If you want to cancel your bid good luck in finding the way to do
it.
> Again it takes along time. I have bookmarked that page for ease of access
> (Not that I retract bids all the time but now & then it happens for good
> reason). Has anyone asked the seller why he withdrew the item, I would but
> I'm on my way to a TTOS Meet. Mike S.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18554 From: Victor Bereskin Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1389
In that case American Models must be selling a lot of non-existent track
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:54:34 -0000
> From: "robbyking13" <robbyking13@...>
> Subject: Re: Vintage AF Code Minimum
>
> Code 148 never existed.
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18555 From: ironhors@swbell.net Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: Vintage AF Code Minimum
robbyking13 wrote:

> Code 148 never existed.
>
> Code 125 has big enough looks for AF hirail wheel flanges. Code 125
> is a prototypical track. The PRR used code 125 in mainline service
> from the 1950's to the Penn Central merger.
>
> Code 100, in addition to code 125, actually works too. I have
> Tomalco Code 100 flex track. The AF rolling stock has the largest
> wheel flange and even they do not rub against the ties.
>
> Robby King
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

The code number is NOT related to the prototype size. The scale reduction puts code
.100 rail (.100 in actual height) at about the same number of pounds per years of the
prototype rail.. That is, in S scale, code 100 scales to about 100 to 115-lb rail,
while in HO-scale, code 100 rail scales up to about 125-140-lb rail. Kinda like
having two measurement systems.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18556 From: David Dewey Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: Vintage AF Code Minimum
Hmm, I think that's number of pounds per YARD, not years! :-)
I have never understood who came up with the "code" system, as it does not
translate between scales. Just think of what code 125 would be in N gauge!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18557 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, March 24, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains
Group: S-Trains Message: 18558 From: mfjdunn@bellsouth.net Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Was someone looking for an Atlantic metal tender shell last week? If so, contact me off-list.
Jim Dunn
afchoochoo@...
mfjdunn@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 18559 From: mfjdunn@bellsouth.net Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Atlantic metal tender shell
Was someone looking for an Atlantic metal tender shell last week? If so, contact me off-list.
Jim Dunn
afchoochoo@...
mfjdunn@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 18560 From: Jim Armstrong Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Pikemaster Truck Replacement
Can Pikemaster trucks be replaced by just prying apart the two plastic
structures that touch (and surround) the truck-fastening rivet. I've
sort of tried to remove a broken truck this way, but it looks like too
much force is required. Or, is the alternative to simply(?) use a new
rivet with a replacement truck? Jim Armstrong
Group: S-Trains Message: 18561 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: Vintage AF Code Minimum
The code system is very simple. The code # is the height of the rail in
thousandths of an inch, regardless of scale. In other words, code 125
is .125" or 1/8" tall, code 100 is .100" or 1/10 inch tall. Some people
misuse it by assuming anything hirail is code 172 but this is
incorrect. Gargraves or Flyer in code notation is roughly code 220 or
.22 tall (huge).

Pounds per yard is the prototype indicator or rail height. The only
figure I recall offhand is that PRR 155# rail is code 125 in S scale.
There are conversion charts.

David Dewey wrote:
>
> Hmm, I think that's number of pounds per YARD, not years! :-)
> I have never understood who came up with the "code" system, as it does not
> translate between scales. Just think of what code 125 would be in N gauge!
> S'
> David D.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18562 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Sunday Chat - Club site does not exist - it is BEING migrated....!
Ok,

Anyone out there in strain land, where is the chat tonight?

Chuck

S-Trains@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.
>
>Sunday Chat
>
>Date: Sunday, March 24, 2002
>Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)
>
>Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page
>http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains
>
>
>
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

--

eBay myflyertrains@... - TCA# 99-50024

Personal Web Site - http://myflyertrains.com
Kris Model Trains Home - http://krismodeltrains.org
The All Aboard Sets Club - http://allaboardsetsclub.org
Group: S-Trains Message: 18563 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: Sunday Chat - Club site does not exist - it is BEI NG migrated.
It appears that the chat has moved to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/

Carl

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.tuveson.com
Check out the New AF Loco Geared Drive Kit !
Buy it on line with PayPal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Harrington [mailto:myflyertrains@...]
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 7:34 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Sunday Chat - Club site does not exist - it is BEING
migrated....!


Ok,

Anyone out there in strain land, where is the chat tonight?

Chuck

S-Trains@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.
>
>Sunday Chat
>
>Date: Sunday, March 24, 2002
>Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)
>
>Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page
>http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains
>
>
>
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

--

eBay myflyertrains@... - TCA# 99-50024

Personal Web Site - http://myflyertrains.com
Kris Model Trains Home - http://krismodeltrains.org
The All Aboard Sets Club - http://allaboardsetsclub.org





S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18564 From: Paul Yorke Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: Sunday Chat - Club site does not exist - it is BEING migrated..
Looks like we will be meeting in the S-trains yahoo
group chat room at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
--- Chuck Harrington <myflyertrains@...> wrote:
> Ok,
>
> Anyone out there in strain land, where is the chat
> tonight?
>
> Chuck
>
> S-Trains@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> >We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.
> >
> >Sunday Chat
> >
> >Date: Sunday, March 24, 2002
> >Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)
> >
> >Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page
> >http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> too!
> >
> >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
>
> eBay myflyertrains@... - TCA# 99-50024
>
> Personal Web Site - http://myflyertrains.com
> Kris Model Trains Home -
> http://krismodeltrains.org
> The All Aboard Sets Club -
> http://allaboardsetsclub.org
>
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards�
http://movies.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18565 From: Dick Kuepper Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Yahoo is absolutely stupid. We have got to go somewhere else. It gave me a
"new" password, then said it didn't recognize it.

Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 5:02 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Reminder - Sunday Chat


>
> We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.
>
> Sunday Chat
>
> Date: Sunday, March 24, 2002
> Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)
>
> Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page
> http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains
>
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18566 From: Horn, David Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Axle bushing wear
What is the best thing to lubricate current-carrying engine axles with? Is
there a "conducta-grease" that provides great lubrication under heat and
pressure, positive electrical conduction, and resists decomposition?
Thanks. Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 18567 From: hsjobbins Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Where's this chat room??
Guys I think it's a pretend chat! For such a great e-mail system
for "S"'s, live communication ain't part of it.Oh well the threads of
daily posts, and personal follow ups are just as good. Nice try but
forget it!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18568 From: John L. Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: American Flyer Coach 495
Found a really nice American Flyer New Haven (red) passenger coach (all
metal) and box at the Toronto Model Train Show today. Greenburg only
refers to this item as being made between 1941 and 1945, and doesnt show
values for it (maybe I have the wrong Greenburg book). I would
appreciate knowing any further information about this item, and values
etc.

Good show at Toronto - several dealers and private vendors had AF stuff.
Good place for Statside folks to visit, because the CDN dollar is about
.64cts US now, so a $100.00 CDN piece would be the same as $64.00US.

PS maybe Canada would be a good place to make quality model train items
instead of China with a money exchange rate like that, coupled with
Free Trade and easy shipping facilities - I wonder if the Lionel people
ever considered it? Maybe some Flyer folks who dont like buying mainland
Chinese wouldnt mind buying a train car model if it were made in Canada.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18569 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: The great coupler experiment completed
The final solution for negotiating Flyer radius turned out to be quite
simple.

The AM Amtrak sound car was equipped with O gauge KD806 short draft gear
couplers. The front coupler was mounted normally except the draft gear
box was narrowed between the wheels to allow truck swing. The rear
coupler was talgo mounted without draft gear. A roughly 1/64 x 1/4 inch
brass piece was mounted at the truck pivot, above the truck, and the
coupler was screwed directly to this piece. The bar was epoxied to the
truck to keep the coupler centered with the truck centerline.

The equipment tested was 2 trains:

Train 1 was the AM superliner
a- Loco was F40PH with body mounted KD 802
b- Sound car with body mounted KD806 in front, talgo 806 in rear.
c- Superliner cars with talgo mounted 802s.
This train has trouble backing over my terminal throat until I talgo
mounted the rear sound car truck to match the talgo mounted superliner
cars.

Train 2 was the AM SD60 pulling a long string of freight cars.
a- SD60 Loco with talgo mounted Flyer style coupler.
b- Sound car configured same as above, body mount next to loco, talgo
trailing.
c- Freight cars with talgo mounted Flyer style couplers.
This train had pulled everything but my heavy pulpwood car off the track
when entering a curve from a straight. The talgo mounted rear coupler
on the sound car totally eliminated this problem.

I can now mix consists of Flyer and KD802 couplers by placing the sound
car between them. I did this primarily to use the sound car with my
SD60, but now I plan to outfit a couple more cars with the O gauge 806s
to allow more flexibility.

If you have the luxury of about 36" radius the talgo mounting is not
required based on the earlier part of the experiment. I had no way to
test in between Flyer 20" radius and about 36".
--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18570 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer Coach 495
Do you understand that a 67 cent dollar means about a $7 hamburger meal
at McDonald's? A thing worth 1 US dollar goes for approx. $1.50 in
Canada. There ain't no free lunch!

"John L." wrote:
>
> Found a really nice American Flyer New Haven (red) passenger coach (all
> metal) and box at the Toronto Model Train Show today. Greenburg only
> refers to this item as being made between 1941 and 1945, and doesnt show
> values for it (maybe I have the wrong Greenburg book). I would
> appreciate knowing any further information about this item, and values
> etc.
>
> Good show at Toronto - several dealers and private vendors had AF stuff.
> Good place for Statside folks to visit, because the CDN dollar is about
> .64cts US now, so a $100.00 CDN piece would be the same as $64.00US.
>
> PS maybe Canada would be a good place to make quality model train items
> instead of China with a money exchange rate like that, coupled with
> Free Trade and easy shipping facilities - I wonder if the Lionel people
> ever considered it? Maybe some Flyer folks who dont like buying mainland
> Chinese wouldnt mind buying a train car model if it were made in Canada.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18571 From: Scott Brown Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Lionel Gabe operation tips
So Dave, after you spent several hours and a few more bucks rebuilding the cheaply and poorly built Lionel piece of junk Gabe, you are finally satisfied with it. Course, you could have just saved all that time and trouble and purchased the MTH one and been enjoying playing trains. But then your Gabe wouldn't have that (valuable) Gilbert sticker on the base. Hmmmmm.
(Part of my post is tongue-in-cheek because I know how much David enjoys working on trains. If anyone needs dependable AF repair, David has a small repair business and does a very thorough and detailed job. I'm extreemly pleased with my 343 and 322 that David recently repaired. They both fly around the track and smoke like a 3 alarmer. David is also a founding member of our ACSG W&OD Division. Just had to give him a poke in the ribs over his Gabe repair. Personally, I think we should spend our money with MTH with the hope of more S gauge products in the future, but I know this is a matter of heated debate and I'm not interested in starting that again. )

Love ya Dave,

Scott Brown


Message: 9
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:40:11 -0500
From: "Horn, David" <david.horn@...>
Subject: Lionel Gabe operation tips

I bought a Lionel Gabe. It worked great out of the box! But only for 5
trips up and down the ladder, and then it became very unreliable :< Gabe
started missing steps and jamming (i.e. all the noises, but Gabe just hopped
without actually progressing up the ladder a rung). I let it cool, thinking
maybe the solenoid was hot and therefore not working crisply. Nope. That
wasn't it.

To make a long story short, I got Flyonel Gabe working bullet-proof reliably
again, but it took a little work. The critical issue is the lousy rivet
used to hold the advance (i.e. 'Up") prawl to the main solenoid's flapper
plate. The rivet is very soft and if poorly installed, as was the case with
mine, soon develops too much play allowing the prawl to travel laterally
outward toward the edge of the ratchets on the drum, and potentially stub
itself on a ratchet instead of completely pushing it forward. Ergo the
occasional misfire with all the noise and initially some movement up, but
then Gabe doesn't stay there and slips back down. I replaced the rivet with
a 1/4" 2x56 bolt, a washer, and two nuts set against each other. Gabe now
fails to miss a beat no matter how rapidly I make him climb up the ladder!
The nuts, bolts, and washer are available at Radio Shack.

I bent the small tab that the rivet once went through so that the bolt
extends out parallel to the plane of the plate (to get a nicely aligned
drive of the brass prawl toward the ratcheted drum). I also made a flat
spot on the head of the bolt to let it fit in against the main plate and
pass through the hole that formerly held the rivet. The washer I mentioned
should go next to the nuts as a preventative measure for the prawl not to
loosen them. However, once set against each other the nuts lock into place
nicely (plus a little future glue on them as extra insurance and they aren't
going anywhere this century). I had to file down the end of the bolt,
prawl, washer, and 2-nuts assembly about 1 mm so it cleared the inner wall
of the housing inside which it swings, but that's easy, and it serves to
help guide the prawl in for a direct hit on the each awaiting ratchet.

Another tip - - if your descent prawl lifts up to the smaller secondary
solenoid, but fails to release right away when you try to make Gabe climb
again, then gently bend the descent prawl's tip near the solenoid so it
angles away from the secondary solenoid a little bit. This reduces its
lasting attraction to the solenoid and it releases more reliably upon either
Gabe hitting the base at the end of a trip down, or the first time you press
the ascent button.

One last helpful hint. If your red or green buttons have the tendency to
kick out (i.e. get crooked, these are really cheapo button assemblies), try
making each button solid-core instead of hollow-core by adding a piece of
dowel inside. This made a world of difference with mine.

In the end, I am very glad I bought the Flyer (albeit Lionel Flyer) version.
Now that it's running well, the auto-on/off feature is IMHO the way it
should have been built in the first place. And you don't have to make Gabe
climb up to shut off the lamps. Simply put the unit on a master on/off
switch (mine's on a selector) and it resets the unit off 'til the next
ascent. Oh, btw it takes 42 clicks to get him up there. The MTH unit I
played with last weekend (very nice by the way, not a single glitch in its
running), took 40-41 clicks. They're basically the same in that regard.

I found that after my repairs, Flyonel Gabe works well with a few different
transformers and voltages although by no means did I exhaustively experiment
with this aspect of his operation. But 15v with 250w, or 16v with 50w both,
for examples, worked fine.

Have fun!

PS Sorry I couldn't provide any pics or more details. However, I just got
assigned to head up a task force at work. I'm going to be even busier than
usual for at least a month or two, so I thought I'd at least quickly jot
down my notes in case it helps any of you in the meantime.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18572 From: Alex Sibbald Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: what happened
Hi everyone,
Just a note concerning the auction that was cancelled by the seller 5
minutes before the end. I wrote to ebay to determine their policy and
they don't appear to have one.
I was the high bidder at the time the auction was cancelled so I emailed
the seller to find out what happened, death in the family, car accident,
house fire or what. He cancelled 3 other auctions besides the
searchlight car. His answer and ebay's answer are included here for your
information. It appears that if someone doesn't put a reserve on an item
and it looks like it will close below what the seller wants, he can just
cancel the auction. This really sucks so here is his ebay name. I would
not recommend bidding on any of his stuff. "drktrains"


Hi Alex I'm not sure which item you are refering to. Usually its because
the
item is no longer for sale.

I hope this helps. If you are intersted in a particular item(s) let me
know.
I will be glad to watch for this item and inform you when I have
another.
This would obviously have nothing to do with ebay and would not carry
any of
ebays guarantees or protection. The pricing would be based on Greenbergs
AF
price guide.

Thanks for your interest

K. Loeb (drktrains)




Hello Alex,

Thank you for your email. I am sorry to hear of the difficulty you have
encountered with this auction. I would be happy to address your
concerns.

I can understand your frustration, however, any seller has the right to
cancel all bids and end an auction early if they want to. I can only
imagine your disappointment, but the seller does have the right to do
this. It is only if the auction ends normally that the obligation to
complete the transaction exists.

If you would like to see a change in eBay policy or have other
suggestions, we would encourage you to write to our Product Marketing
Department by using our web form located at:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/basics/select-support.html

Our Product Marketing staff and eBay Management welcome the input of our

users and will gladly review your comments.

Thank you for using eBay, Alex, we appreciate your business!

Regards,

Kellie W. H.
eBay Customer Support
Group: S-Trains Message: 18573 From: bassflyer Date: 3/24/2002
Subject: Chat room....
I had no problem getting to the chat room,...went to the old site, it
said Yahoo clubs has moved to Yahoo Groups,..I clicked on somethin'
and took me right to chat. Which I believe is the S-Trains site where
we post, and where I read them.

Hope you all have a good week!!

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18574 From: robbyking13 Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Follow Up Re: Vintage AF Code Minimum
The codes of the track do represent the size of the track that is
used for the model railroad hobby. Out of the three codes mentioned
(148, 125, and 100), the question was which of these is the minimum
(smallest) that can be used for American Flyer. The answer is code
100. In terms of scale (S scale), anything above code 125 is not in
scale (too big and never existed). That is why I said code 148 never
existed.

Robby King
Group: S-Trains Message: 18575 From: Scott Brown Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: What Happened
So, if I want to sell stuff and don't want to use a reserve, I can just end the auction if I don't seem to be getting what I want for it. I can give you the illusion of getting a bargain and then pull the rug out from under you at the last second. Hmmmm That must be the new ebay "invisible reserve". Almost as bad as the sellers we caught bidding on their own stuff using another name to jack the price up on a no reserve item. Or you could just be like one of the sellers on an auction I won last year. He took my money and then dissapeared without sending the item or answering email or phone calls. It's like keeping up with all the new and everchanging tax laws. LOL. You almost have to view ebay like going to Vegas or Atlantic City. You have to be willing to lose all your money and not complain. How people bid thousands or dollars for an item on ebay from a seller they've never met is beyond me. So, when is YORK anyway ?

Scott Brown

Message: 20
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:20:44 -0800
From: Alex Sibbald <innotron@...>
Subject: what happened

Hi everyone,
Just a note concerning the auction that was cancelled by the seller 5
minutes before the end. I wrote to ebay to determine their policy and
they don't appear to have one.
I was the high bidder at the time the auction was cancelled so I emailed
the seller to find out what happened, death in the family, car accident,
house fire or what. He cancelled 3 other auctions besides the
searchlight car. His answer and ebay's answer are included here for your
information. It appears that if someone doesn't put a reserve on an item
and it looks like it will close below what the seller wants, he can just
cancel the auction. This really sucks so here is his ebay name. I would
not recommend bidding on any of his stuff. "drktrains"


Hi Alex I'm not sure which item you are refering to. Usually its because
the
item is no longer for sale.

I hope this helps. If you are intersted in a particular item(s) let me
know.
I will be glad to watch for this item and inform you when I have
another.
This would obviously have nothing to do with ebay and would not carry
any of
ebays guarantees or protection. The pricing would be based on Greenbergs
AF
price guide.

Thanks for your interest

K. Loeb (drktrains)




Hello Alex,

Thank you for your email. I am sorry to hear of the difficulty you have
encountered with this auction. I would be happy to address your
concerns.

I can understand your frustration, however, any seller has the right to
cancel all bids and end an auction early if they want to. I can only
imagine your disappointment, but the seller does have the right to do
this. It is only if the auction ends normally that the obligation to
complete the transaction exists.

If you would like to see a change in eBay policy or have other
suggestions, we would encourage you to write to our Product Marketing
Department by using our web form located at:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/basics/select-support.html

Our Product Marketing staff and eBay Management welcome the input of our

users and will gladly review your comments.

Thank you for using eBay, Alex, we appreciate your business!

Regards,

Kellie W. H.
eBay Customer Support



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18576 From: Horn, David Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Lionel Gabe operation tips
Thanks Scott for the kind words. I love to get old Flyer fly'n again, and
I'm glad you like the Hudson and 0-8-0 I recently completed for you. By the
way, playing trains with the gang in your W&OD Division of the ACSG can't be
beat. Thanks for getting us started and keeping us together over the past
couple years. I'm looking forward to many more.

In terms of Lamplighters, after playing with Gilbert and MTH units (which
are well made and work great), I was intrigued by the automatic on/off of
the Lionel. As it turns out, I really do like that feature, and other than
that one wimp rivet the Lionel unit looks good and is nicely made as well.
Sure upon opening its shipping carton, the blue and yellow box hit a soft
spot with me, but my mantra remains - - buy what you want, pay what it's
worth to you. Otherwise, move on, no regrets.

Dave
Precision Flyer Repairs
Group: S-Trains Message: 18577 From: Horn, David Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: best axle bushing lubricant to counter wear
What is the best thing to lubricate axles which conduct electricity to an
engine's chassis? Is there a "conducta-grease" that provides great
lubrication under heat and pressure, positive electrical conduction, and
resists decomposition? Thanks. Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 18578 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Re: Cancelling Bids
Here is what e-bay has to say...

"Cancelling Bids Placed in Your Auction
You should only cancel bids if you have a good reason to. Also, please
remember that bids cannot be reinstated once they've been canceled. Here are
a few examples of a legitimate cancellation:
Bidder contacts you to back out of the bid.
You cannot verify the identity of the bidder, after trying all reasonable
means of contact.

***You want to end your auction early because you no longer want to sell
your item.***

In this case you must cancel all bids on your auction before ending the
auction.

Because your cancellation will be put in the bidding history for this
auction, bidders may ask you to explain your cancellation. So, please
include a one-line explanation of your cancellation for the official record.
"

NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT IT BUT THIS SEEMS LIKE A GOOD WAY TO AVOID HIGH RESERVE
PRICES....I too have let items go for pennys....If the price doesn't go up
to within reason...Why not cancel?....I think SNIPING has brought this on as
many try to wait to the last minute to place bids.....I always place a bid I
think is what I want to pay when I see an item....Trying to be fair....I
hate it when some on comes in after a week...gets it for another few
cents...The other day I got SNIPED....but the sniper got bit...I ment to
enter a 177.00 bid to buy a 75.00 model kit...Accidently entered 277 and
being out of town figured I would probely pay 125+- for it.....BUT AT THE
LAST COUPLE OF SECONDS>>>>I WAS SAVED WITH A @&*>)) SNIPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bob conner


> I was just watching a 634 Searchlight Car on Ebay. It looked pretty nice
> and I thought I might toss in a last minute bid. With 4 minutes and 12
> seconds left, there were 5 bids and the price was $ 15.00. I hit
"refresh"
> and the bidding was closed! (wasn't listed as a "Buy It Now"). The info,
> said "No Bids" and the price was $ 9.99. It started 3/16, 19:46:19 and
when
> it ended today, the close time went from 19:46:19 to 19:42:12.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18579 From: David Dewey Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Re: Follow Up Re: Vintage AF Code Minimum
Ah Robby,
This would have never been an issue, if you had said it never existed in
Prototype form! The "code" system probably made sense to those who believed
there was only one true "scale model railroading" (well there is, but it's
S--not what they were thinking of! :-) ). Considering the vast amount of
scales now being pursued, from G to N holding the more popular, the "code"
system can be very confusing to the newbie, and even to those of us who have
been around a while. After all, code 100 in G is very small compared to
prototype, and code 100 in N is huge compared to prototype. (Of course, to
confirm it's geat Superiority, in S it is just about right! <heh heh heh>)
I suppose a simple size chart would make it easier, something like the
drill guides for bolt sizes that adorn most machinist's Kennedy Chests, or
wall charts (but then I don't have any "free space" on my garage walls for
one).
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18580 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: arcing at the rails
Several guys have posted about excessive arcing between the pickup wheels
and rail. A customer gave me some Flyer trains and track to test and
repair, and the sparking was totally out of control and ridiculous.
Abrasives and alcohol on the railhead and wheels had no effect. It looked
like little elves were running in front of the trains sprinkling gunpowder
on the rails. In fact, really spectacular with the lights out. I had
never seen anything like this before.

Cleaning the pickup wheels with a little bit of Caig ProGold on a q-tip
solved the problem, but that's not the point. I noticed that about a dozen
of the track sections were blackened rail from 1948 or whenever. Could
there be some connection between the blackened rail and the fireworks show?


Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18581 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Re: Follow Up Re: Vintage AF Code Minimum
In addition, I think I have read that some of the later AF had "deeper" flanges and
would not quite run on code 100 track, and that code 125 was a better bet if one
wanted to be sure that all of the AF would be able to run. Not super sure on this
fact, but it does stick in my mind (thus my choice of code 125 to run both scale and
hi-rail).
Rance Velapoldi

David Dewey wrote:

> Ah Robby,
> This would have never been an issue, if you had said it never existed in
> Prototype form! The "code" system probably made sense to those who believed
> there was only one true "scale model railroading" (well there is, but it's
> S--not what they were thinking of! :-) ). Considering the vast amount of
> scales now being pursued, from G to N holding the more popular, the "code"
> system can be very confusing to the newbie, and even to those of us who have
> been around a while. After all, code 100 in G is very small compared to
> prototype, and code 100 in N is huge compared to prototype. (Of course, to
> confirm it's geat Superiority, in S it is just about right! <heh heh heh>)
> I suppose a simple size chart would make it easier, something like the
> drill guides for bolt sizes that adorn most machinist's Kennedy Chests, or
> wall charts (but then I don't have any "free space" on my garage walls for
> one).
> S'
> David D.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18582 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Re: arcing at the rails
Here's some anecdotal evidence that may support your black rail
question. I bought 2 Flyer sets new in 1946 with the black track. One
ran under the Christmas tree and didn't last 24 hours before arcing and
inadvertent tripping of the reverse unit became a problem. Thereafter I
had to clean rails and wheels all the time.

My present layout uses some brass AM track, some nickel silver AM track,
some silver Flyer (with bare rail tops by now) and some Gargraves. I
rarely oil my track with a couple drops of smoke oil, let my track get
fairly grimy and never have arcing problems with any of my Flyer or
hirail engines. Rail cleaning is only done when the crud builds up
enough to cause an engine to not run or trip reverse units and is then
applied only to the offending area. I run my layout nearly every day.
The pickup wheels on all my locos are shiny bright with no cleansing
ever needed. Some of the flyer plastic wheels get a buildup of black
gunk after a long period. If I see a car wobbling it usually means the
wheels need cleaning. I scrape the crud off with a screwdriver blade

jarcho@... wrote:
>
> Several guys have posted about excessive arcing between the pickup wheels
> and rail. A customer gave me some Flyer trains and track to test and
> repair, and the sparking was totally out of control and ridiculous.
> Abrasives and alcohol on the railhead and wheels had no effect. It looked
> like little elves were running in front of the trains sprinkling gunpowder
> on the rails. In fact, really spectacular with the lights out. I had
> never seen anything like this before.
>
> Cleaning the pickup wheels with a little bit of Caig ProGold on a q-tip
> solved the problem, but that's not the point. I noticed that about a dozen
> of the track sections were blackened rail from 1948 or whenever. Could
> there be some connection between the blackened rail and the fireworks show?
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18583 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Vintage AF Code Minimum
I have a AF loco that will not run on code # 125 rails. The wheels hit the rail spikes.

And I used the HO spikes with flat heads, (as opposed to the round heads)

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 18584 From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Crossing signal flasher circuit
Hi All

I found this site on the Web some nice circuits.Take a look.

AL

http://home.cogeco.ca/~rpaisley4/CircuitIndex.html

Model Railroad Electronics- Rob Paisley
Rob has a large selection of useful circuits, some from the London,
Ontario, 0-Scale layout.

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18585 From: ironhors@swbell.net Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Re: Vintage AF Code Minimum
David Dewey wrote:

> Hmm, I think that's number of pounds per YARD, not years! :-)
> I have never understood who came up with the "code" system, as it does not
> translate between scales. Just think of what code 125 would be in N gauge!
> S'
> David D.

You're right, it is yard; I never saw the typo until now. However, it is more
important to separate our model designation code numbers from the prototype
weight per length system, to avoid the confusion that results otherwise.
DJE-KCMO
Group: S-Trains Message: 18586 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer Coach 495
John, this is a pre-war "O" gauge Am Flyer car. Probably 1940-41. Came in
different colors. Can Be found in GB "O" gauge book.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18587 From: bassflyer Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Chat room....
I had no problem getting to the chat room,...went to the old site, it
said Yahoo clubs has moved to Yahoo Groups,..I clicked on somethin'
and took me right to chat. Which I believe is the S-Trains site where
we post, and where I read them.

Hope you all have a good week!!

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18588 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Re: Wow, Im very Sorry
No biggie.

That's another reason I prefer to read these messages on the Yahoo
Groups site instead of in my email. I'd be mis-posting all kinds of
stuff...


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18589 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: PLASTICVILLE
Clear DayGents and Ladies....

I would like to tell you of A very nice experience lately.....

As you all know, those who love and collect Americn Flyer that A sideline to the trains in your Childhood was "PLASTICVILLE"...Yes I still remember my first...the LOG CABIN with fence...Recently there has been A new Publication started called " PLASTIC VILLAGE GAZETTE "...This mag has lots of neet stuff about our old buildings..I recently sent to them for all the back issues, from no. 1 to no. 6, A price guide and a years subscription..All of this ran 57.95 +-....I got A super deal...I am also going to join the club too...I would strongly recommend looking into this...Contact "Mike Cedro" at Pinenickle Productions, po box 590602, Houston, Tx 77259-0602 or on the web at mcedro@... ..Now for the good part...THE PO REALLY TRASHED MY ORDER....ALL I GOT WAS A TORN ENVELOPE AND A NOTE SAYING " SORRY .... PO "...When I spoke with Mike about this, He rushed me a second set within a few days...Please tell him you heard about the Gazette from me....They need all the help they can get as they are just starting up......BOB CONNER


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18590 From: af21115 Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Re: E-BAY ITEM
All that and the photos don't load... HA!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18591 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Older and Fatter
ironhors@... sez about code rail:
>. . . same number of pounds per years of the prototype rail

I add pounds per years.
Rail, I think, is measured in pounds per yard.
Soon, I will be measured in yards.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18592 From: erielackawanna76 Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: (no subject)
TEST
Group: S-Trains Message: 18593 From: John Hornick Date: 3/25/2002
Subject: Test/Haven't been able to post
If this test takes, I'll send in my real message. I tried 3 times yesterday to post...no luck. I tried to join the chat yesterday evening...not much luck. This post is sent through my personal e-mail, not through Yahoo. Let's see what happens.
John


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18594 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Vintage AF Code Minimum
Yes the flanges are larger than most. I think it is my challenger loco.
My locos are packed away while I build my next layout. I don't remember
exactly which loco. I remember my disappointment as it bounced down
the line. AS I remember it was the lead truck bouncing along.

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 18595 From: erielackawanna76 Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: new website
Group: S-Trains Message: 18596 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re: PLASTICVILLE
Roger...Thanks for the additional information....NOW I REMEMBER WHERE I SAW
THE SHAY.... Go to the plasticville web page...click on
links...bachmann....new products!!!!! line drawing of it...BOB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@...>
To: "ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT" <rcon7@...>
Cc: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] PLASTICVILLE


There is also a web site for this magazine.

http://www.plasticvillagegazette.com

While we are on the subject, there is also a Plasticville Collector's Club
(PCA), of which I am a charter member. The newsletter and web site also
have much info on Plasticville and related products. The official web site
address is:

http://www.plasticvilleusa.org

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT wrote:

> Clear DayGents and Ladies....
>
> I would like to tell you of A very nice experience lately.....
>
> As you all know, those who love and collect Americn Flyer that A sideline
to the trains in your Childhood was "PLASTICVILLE"...Yes I still remember my
first...the LOG CABIN with fence...Recently there has been A new Publication
started called " PLASTIC VILLAGE GAZETTE "...This mag has lots of neet stuff
about our old buildings..I recently sent to them for all the back issues,
from no. 1 to no. 6, A price guide and a years subscription..All of this ran
57.95 +-....I got A super deal...I am also going to join the club too...I
would strongly recommend looking into this...Contact "Mike Cedro" at
Pinenickle Productions, po box 590602, Houston, Tx 77259-0602 or on the web
at mcedro@... ..Now for the good part...THE PO REALLY TRASHED
MY ORDER....ALL I GOT WAS A TORN ENVELOPE AND A NOTE SAYING " SORRY .... PO
"...When I spoke with Mike about this, He rushed me a second set within a
few days...Please tell him you heard about the Gazette from me....They need
all the help they can get as they are just starting up......BOB CONNER
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18597 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re: PLASTICVILLE
There is also a web site for this magazine.

http://www.plasticvillagegazette.com

While we are on the subject, there is also a Plasticville Collector's Club (PCA), of which I am a charter member. The newsletter and web site also have much info on Plasticville and related products. The official web site address is:

http://www.plasticvilleusa.org

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT wrote:

> Clear DayGents and Ladies....
>
> I would like to tell you of A very nice experience lately.....
>
> As you all know, those who love and collect Americn Flyer that A sideline to the trains in your Childhood was "PLASTICVILLE"...Yes I still remember my first...the LOG CABIN with fence...Recently there has been A new Publication started called " PLASTIC VILLAGE GAZETTE "...This mag has lots of neet stuff about our old buildings..I recently sent to them for all the back issues, from no. 1 to no. 6, A price guide and a years subscription..All of this ran 57.95 +-....I got A super deal...I am also going to join the club too...I would strongly recommend looking into this...Contact "Mike Cedro" at Pinenickle Productions, po box 590602, Houston, Tx 77259-0602 or on the web at mcedro@... ..Now for the good part...THE PO REALLY TRASHED MY ORDER....ALL I GOT WAS A TORN ENVELOPE AND A NOTE SAYING " SORRY .... PO "...When I spoke with Mike about this, He rushed me a second set within a few days...Please tell him you heard about the Gazette from me....They need all the help they can get as they are just starting up......BOB CONNER
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18598 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Flood of Flyonel cars
I have noticed that in the past couple of weeks there have been quite a
few MIB Flyonel cars such as the 48404 and 48405 tankers (orange Shell
and black US Army) that have been selling in the $25-30 range (I've
bought several) where only about six months ago they were pretty rare to
see and going in the $50-80+ range. Anyone know why they are so
plentiful all of a sudden? Anything to do with the recent Lionel plant
closure maybe?

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO
Group: S-Trains Message: 18599 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Steam Engines
A while ago someone asked about the wheel arrangements for steam
engines. Classic Toy Trains had some info in its March 2002 (page 90)
which I repeat below:

Wheel Arrangement Name
2-4-2 Columbia
2-6-2 Prairie
2-8-2 Mikado
2-8-4 Berkshire
2-10-0 Decapod
2-10-2 Santa Fe (?)
2-10-4 Texas
4-4-2 Atlantic
4-6-0 Ten-Wheeler
4-6-2 Pacific
4-6-4 Hudson
4-8-2 Mountain
4-8-4 Northern
2-6-6-6 Allegheny
2-8-8-4 Yellowstone (?)
4-6-6-4 Challenger
4-8-8-4 Big Boy

I don't know about Heislers, or say an 0-6-0, etc.
Rance Velapoldi
Group: S-Trains Message: 18600 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re: Flood of Flyonel cars
Several years ago...about 1985? I think...I was in the white hall at
York...A lady had a Simmons or Keystone car for sale ( can't remember
which ) for something like 1400.00 +-...I talked with her for a while about
these cars...She finally told me " You would be suprised...we found a whole
box full!!!! "...we a letting them go only one at a time to keep up the
price....she then showed me several more she had under the table in a
box...Maybe this is whats happening with the prices...someone found a lot of
extras...Bob Conner
Group: S-Trains Message: 18601 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Northen tender parts
Hi group, got another question for ya. Did the Northen tenders come
with SIT. It looks like it may have been an option but I'm not sure.
Also, on the 3rd shift chat last Sunday someone (I'm sorry, I don't
remember who???), said they may have a frame with wheels for sale.
I'm still interested please contact me.
Thanks,
Fred
Group: S-Trains Message: 18602 From: John L. Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re: Flood of Flyonel cars
Could be dealers clearing stock that no one is buying when they come in to the
stores.

"Roger V. Petrella Jr." wrote:

> I have noticed that in the past couple of weeks there have been quite a
> few MIB Flyonel cars such as the 48404 and 48405 tankers (orange Shell
> and black US Army) that have been selling in the $25-30 range (I've
> bought several) where only about six months ago they were pretty rare to
> see and going in the $50-80+ range. Anyone know why they are so
> plentiful all of a sudden? Anything to do with the recent Lionel plant
> closure maybe?
>
> Roger Petrella
> Franktown, CO
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18603 From: David Dewey Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re: Northen tender parts
Fred,
Yes SIT does exist in Northern tenders, but it is VERY RARE--one time
this phrase is accurate. So rare, it may be made of "Unobtainium"!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18604 From: nasglibrary Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Mobley Library Videos
All --

Steve Blackburn of S-‘n-S Trains has generously donated one four-volume
set of his “S Gauge Model Railroading” videos to the Russell M. Mobley
Library.

Following are brief synopses of each:

Vol. I – “In the Mountain West”
· Rich Anano’s 100% AF layout, Boise, ID
· Rocky Mountain Highrailers, Boise, ID
· S-West III, Coeur D’Alene, ID, 1998:
- Ernie Horr’s hirail “The Tinplate Road”
- Ron Tilton’s scale “Rocky Mountain Western”
- Jess Bennett’s scale Great Northern Pacific

Vol. II – “Utah-Ohio Connection”
· Utah Golden Spike AF Club at GATS Show
· Jim Lindsay’s AF layout & collection
· Fred Alles’ AF layout & collection, Kaysville, UT
· Miami Valley (Ohio) S Gaugers mixed hirail/scale layout at 2000
Cincinnati GATS Show
· Chris Burger’s AF Christmas layout, Dayton, OH
· Bob Gukian’s hirail layout, Eaton, OH

Vol. III – “Steamtown to Careywood”
· 2001 NASG National Convention, Scranton/Steamtown, PA
- Cuyahoga Valley S Gauge Association hirail/scale layout
- North Penn S Gaugers hirail layout
- Tom Robinson’s hirail layout
- Bristol S Gaugers hirail/scale layout
- Neshaminy Valley AF Club’s layout
· 2001 NASG Convention tours
- Bill Fraley’s scale “Jefferson Central”
- Frank Titman’s scale “Spiral Hill RR”
- Bert Mahr’s scale “Conrail & Eastern”
- Steamtown Museum (12” = 1’) & train ride
· Jess Bennett’s scale “Great Northern Pacific,” Careywood, ID, with
excellent
commentary by Jess
· Tribute to Ernie Horr, operating Jess’s GNP in 1989

Vol. IV – “Hershey Bars to Baked Potatoes”
· Bill Fraley’s scale “Jefferson Central,” Hershey, PA
· Sam Rapp’s hirail layout, Boise, ID; construction sequences
· Frank Titman’s scale “Spiral Hill RR,” Allentown, PA
· Dave Heine’s narrow-gauge “Lehigh & Western,” Coopersburg, PA
· Bert Mahr’s scale “Conrail & Eastern,” Emmaus, PA
· Out-takes
· S-'n-S Trains’ can motor project, including installation tutorial

Each of these four tapes is available for 30-day checkout for $4.82, the
price of US domestic postage both ways. (Foreign members: You pay
return postage; NASG puts delivery postage on a running 6-month tab for
you.) Each tape is shipped with a stamped, addressed return mailer
enclosed. The 30 days are calculated from the day the Library puts the
tape in the mail until the day the Library receives the tape back.
(Note that US postage goes up on June 30. Therefore, your cost rises to
$4.85 as of May 31, and $4.88 as of June 30.)

As always, please transmit your NASG membership number along with your
payment.

Dick Karnes, Librarian
Russell M. Mobley Memorial Library
NASG Inc.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18605 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re northern tender parts
I guess I have two choices then, drill a hole in the tender shell
that I have or make a Lionel fan smoke unit fit in the front of my
Challenger... I've never seen one so I don't know if it would fit or
not. The space I available to try to put the thing in is the front
half of a Hudson boiler shell.
Does anyone have any input they would be willing to share?

Thanks
Fred
Group: S-Trains Message: 18606 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re northern tender parts
I guess I have two choices then, drill a hole in the tender shell
that I have or make a Lionel fan smoke unit fit in the front of my
Challenger... I've never seen one so I don't know if it would fit or
not. The space I available to try to put the thing in is the front
half of a Hudson boiler shell.
Does anyone have any input they would be willing to share?

Thanks
Fred
Group: S-Trains Message: 18607 From: Dennis Conway Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Steam Engines
Tom Hawley wrote:

>> For extra credit identify some alternative names. The Milwaukee
Road's Baltic? The MacArthur? What was a "Northern" called in the
South?


What happened to the Americans, the Moguls and the Berkshires?
Didn't they make the list?

Dennis Conway
Los Angeles

, Sign Permits Manager, Real Estate Division
Michigan Department of Transportation
517 / 373 - 7683

>>> Rance and Bente Velapoldi <velapoldi@...> 03/26/02 03:15PM
>>>
A while ago someone asked about the wheel arrangements for steam
engines. . . . . . . . . . . .

To see or post Photos visit
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18608 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Steam Engines
In a message dated 3/26/02 7:34:53 PM, dlconway@... writes:

<< The Milwaukee Road's Baltic? The MacArthur? What was a "Northern" called
in the
South? >>

The patriotic name for Mikado is MacArthur and the name of the Northern in
the South is Greenbrier,....but Baltic escapes me at the moment. :-)

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 18609 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Steam Engines
In a message dated 3/26/02 7:34:53 PM, dlconway@... writes:

<< What happened to the Americans, the Moguls and the Berkshires?
Didn't they make the list? >>

Berkshire was listed. American = 4-4-0, Mogul = 2-6-0. Also missing:
Consolidation = 2-8-0.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 18610 From: hornickw Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Rejuvenating Rubber Roadbed
I just brought a box of rubber roadbed up from the climate-controlled
basement where it has been stored for 22 years. When I tried to
carefully remove the section of track from it, it cracked, broke and
tore...stiff as a board. I remember reading the recommendation to
use Armor-All but my problem is not cosmetic. Could it be that the
plasticizer has evaporated from the rubber? Has anyone else
experienced this problem? Does anyone have a solution? Is there an
Elastomer Chemist in the Group? I could really use some good advice.

Also, thanks to all of you who sent encouragement with my frustration
at not being able to post to this Group; it really helped to soothe
the frustration.
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 18611 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: rubber roadbed
Was this gray or black roadbed?

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18612 From: roy inman Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: re-up
Paul Yorke:
I am still not resubscribed to the S Trains list.
Any suggestions as to what I need to do?
Thanks in advance,
Roy Inman
Group: S-Trains Message: 18613 From: hornickw Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re: Rubber Roadbed
Tom,
It is black rubber with wide-spaced ties. I forgot to include that I
had tried heat [hair dryer temp and hot water to no avail. I'm
wondering if there is a solvent, like perhaps VM&P Naptha, that would
work. I don't mind sacrificing ONE piece but I don't want to ruin
the whole bunch. After all, when I bought it 23 years ago I balked
at the price of 15 cents each piece, and used at that!!
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 18614 From: dadaw56 Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Chat room access?
Hi!

I entered the Yahoo Groups chat room tonight in hopes of talking to
anyone. But - - everytime I typed a line and sent it, the box above
said ***General chat error, please try again. I couldn't get
anything out, I think. It also appears that my view of the chat
window is compressed. At the right side where it says Members there
are three lines just below it that should be icons of some sort.
When I put my cursor/arrow on it, boxes with descriptions pop up. Am
I messed up or is Yahoo Groups?

Thanks,

Bill
wmhtreftsv@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 18615 From: dadaw56 Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: roadbed rejuvenation
Hi,

While waiting to see if someone has an answer about my chat problems,
I read a few messages.

I haven't had experience with such dry, brittle roadbed as I suspect
you have, but when I acquire roadbed I'll scrub it in warm soapy
water with a scrub brush, (dish detergent), let it dry, then spray it
down with Armorall. After soaking, I'll dry off the excess with a
rag. The roadbed does seem softer, and it has a nice sheen to it
after this process. Someone wrote in to S-Gaugian with the
procedure, and even leaves their track in place for the cleaning.

Good luck!

Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 18616 From: fahrwud Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re: Steam Engines
Every once in a while it so handy to get a refresher on the wheel
arrangements. Thank you!
If I might add to the list; the 4-4-0 is of course the
essential "American", and were not the New York Central 4-8-2 types
called "Mohawks" instead? I think the reason was that the
whole "Water Level Route" of the NYC didn't need a potential
marketing hazard like the name "Mountain" (like everyone else had)for
their locomotives. The Yellowstone 2-8-8-4s were the iron-ore haulers
built for the Duluth Missabe & Iron Range Ry. The reason I mentioned
them is so that Fred the Flyer-chopper can figure out how to build
one .....now that's FOUR Atlantic chassis plus a Hudson pony truck
and a scrap box lead truck, right? Wouldn't want to chop up TWO
Northerns...... ;0)

Regards,
Dave W.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18617 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re: Steam Engines
The name came from the Mohawk River valley, as in "Drums Along the
Mohawk", which was part of the NYC Water Level Route.

fahrwud wrote:
>
> Every once in a while it so handy to get a refresher on the wheel
> arrangements. Thank you!
> If I might add to the list; the 4-4-0 is of course the
> essential "American", and were not the New York Central 4-8-2 types
> called "Mohawks" instead? I think the reason was that the
> whole "Water Level Route" of the NYC didn't need a potential
> marketing hazard like the name "Mountain" (like everyone else had)for
> their locomotives. The Yellowstone 2-8-8-4s were the iron-ore haulers
> built for the Duluth Missabe & Iron Range Ry. The reason I mentioned
> them is so that Fred the Flyer-chopper can figure out how to build
> one .....now that's FOUR Atlantic chassis plus a Hudson pony truck
> and a scrap box lead truck, right? Wouldn't want to chop up TWO
> Northerns...... ;0)
>
> Regards,
> Dave W.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18618 From: Gary Chidester Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Armorall?
Maybe everyone else has had better experiences with Armorall than I have,
but I would like to suggest another product. ClearGuard. Armorall to my
knowledge is a water based product and if not used often enough will
actually have a negative result. ClearGuard is oil based and will last
longer. I am not an employee or associated with ClearGuard. I just had a
dash on an Anniversary Edition 1976 MG Midget crack. I used Armorall. A
Chemist that I work with suggested ClearGuard and I have been very happy
with the results.

gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 18620 From: David Dewey Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Re: Armorall? YECH!
I to am not happy with Armor-all on ANYTHING (the subject line shows my
reaction). The product contains (or at least used to) silicone. Silicone is
not always a good thing. For one thing, it make future painting a real
pain, but my biggest complaint comes from my training in Piano Tuning.
Armor-all on piano keytops leads to cracking of them because (I have been
told) the silicone acts as a stress-relief agent, which causes the stresses
in the keytops to concentrate to the highest stress points, and then the
material cracks. Does the same thing to car dashes--I had one dash that was
fine, until we lent the car to a "friend" who allowed their dog to ride
(after we said NO!). To cover up the dog hair mess, they "detailed' the
interior, including armor-alling the dash. One month later, it was a mass of
cracks. Also, the dog chewed through one seat belt, so that gave them away!
I don't know if it would do the same thing to rubber roadbed, but it is
likely that it would!
I wonder if rubber roadbed is like player piano rubber tubing? The old
stuff (from pre-40's) is usually found hard and very brittle, or soft and
mushed together. The hard and brittle is preferred, as it is easily removed!
(not saved, just gotten rid of quickly)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18621 From: dadaw56 Date: 3/26/2002
Subject: Another chatroom try
Hi, again,

I just tried again. Yahoo asks if I want to install audio
conferencing and I decline. Then it goes to chat. It looks like a
long/tall chat screen opens, then, like a rubber band snapping, the
bottom crashes to the top and smooshes together leaving no window
for "members" and only one line visible in the reading window. As
before, if I send text I get the same error message. Rats!!! the
wife is due home soon! Well, maybe one more try.

Thanks,

Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 18622 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Steam Engines
Hi all:
Perfect opportunity to add to the list! The title of the small table was "Some
Common Wheel Arrangements", so it wasn't meant to be all inclusive. Additionally,
Berkshire was there, but Mogul was not. Someone could make a quite inclusive list
(2-4-4t, etc.), but I just thought the list was interesting enough with one or two
with which I wasn't too familiar.
Rance

Dennis Conway wrote:

> Tom Hawley wrote:
>
> >> For extra credit identify some alternative names. The Milwaukee
> Road's Baltic? The MacArthur? What was a "Northern" called in the
> South?
>
> What happened to the Americans, the Moguls and the Berkshires?
> Didn't they make the list?
>
> Dennis Conway
> Los Angeles
>
>
> >>> Rance and Bente Velapoldi <velapoldi@...> 03/26/02 03:15PM
> >>>
> A while ago someone asked about the wheel arrangements for steam
> engines. . . . . . . . . . . .
Group: S-Trains Message: 18623 From: ron inscho Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Rubber Roadbed
This is a problem that I have talked about before, this is because the
Gilbert roadbed was made with Real Rubber & now is around 50 yrs. old . It
just wasn't supposed to last this long & while you might extend the useful
life by the use of some of these cleaner type products it will still fall
apart eventually . This will not happen to the roadbed now made by Johnson
as it is made of vinyl & is not affected by age ,sunlight or oils & solvents
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18624 From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: Re northern tender parts
Yo:

Both Lionel and MTH make smoke units with blowers. I also believe that
K-line also make them. I have purchased a number of MTH (@$50.00). They
work awesome. There are a number of different part numbers (sizes). I
would recommend looking at MTH's web page. The have a nice parts breakdown
for a lot of there locos. I also recommend using a smoke unit from the
non-protosounds 2 locos.

Tommy

-----Original Message-----
From: lbdrummer3 [mailto:lbdrummer3@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 7:13 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Re northern tender parts


I guess I have two choices then, drill a hole in the tender shell
that I have or make a Lionel fan smoke unit fit in the front of my
Challenger... I've never seen one so I don't know if it would fit or
not. The space I available to try to put the thing in is the front
half of a Hudson boiler shell.
Does anyone have any input they would be willing to share?

Thanks
Fred


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18625 From: Gill W. Lott Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: Steam Engines
Attached is another source for those of us who are visual learners. It is a page (#21) from Jim Boyd's book 'The Steam Locomotive: A Century of North American Classic' printed by Barnes & Noble ISBN 0-7607-1627-7.

Have a geat day, TSNSITM! (The Sun Never Sets In The Morning!)

>>> Rance and Bente Velapoldi <velapoldi@...> 3/26/02 3:15:53 PM >>>
A while ago someone asked about the wheel arrangements for steam
engines. Classic Toy Trains had some info in its March 2002 (page 90)
which I repeat below:

Wheel Arrangement Name
2-4-2 Columbia
2-6-2 Prairie
2-8-2 Mikado
2-8-4 Berkshire
2-10-0 Decapod
2-10-2 Santa Fe (?)
2-10-4 Texas
4-4-2 Atlantic
4-6-0 Ten-Wheeler
4-6-2 Pacific
4-6-4 Hudson
4-8-2 Mountain
4-8-4 Northern
2-6-6-6 Allegheny
2-8-8-4 Yellowstone (?)
4-6-6-4 Challenger
4-8-8-4 Big Boy

I don't know about Heislers, or say an 0-6-0, etc.
Rance Velapoldi


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All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18626 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: ebay funny of the day
Okay guys, I must be missing something in this ebay listing. Ex-mint
condition? Don't know what his reserve is, but my generous $5.00 bid
didn't make it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1717113076


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18627 From: crustyfour Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: MTH smoke unit
Tommy,

Did you put the MTH smoker in a AF steamer? Can you tell us how you
did it ? Do you have a part number for the smoke unit you used ?

Please, tell us more!

Steve Blancard

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas)" <trobicha@l...>
wrote:
> Yo:
>
> Both Lionel and MTH make smoke units with blowers. I also believe
that > K-line also make them. I have purchased a number of MTH
@$50.00). They work awesome. There are a number of different part
numbers (sizes). I would recommend looking at MTH's web page. The
have a nice parts breakdown for a lot of there locos. I also
recommend using a smoke unit from the non-protosounds 2 locos.
>
> Tommy
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18628 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Steam Engines
I seem to recall it was a Milwaukee Road name. Not all that positive.
Anyone else remember?

"Michael A. Scivoletti" wrote:
>
> FWIW,and I could be wrong as usual, but I BELIEVE. Baltic was the European
> name for a 4-6-4. Kelvin, can you help us out here?
>
> Ken Garber wrote:
>
> > TOM HAWLEY wrote:
> >
> > > For extra credit identify some alternative names. The Milwaukee Road's
> > > Baltic? The MacArthur? What was a "Northern" called in the South?
> > >
> >
> > Northern: Greenbrier, Dixie, Niagra, Wyoming, Pocono
> >
> > MacArthur: Mikado
> >
> > Baltic: A street on Monopoly
> >
> > To see or post Photos visit
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
> > or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> To see or post Photos visit
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
> or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
> To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18629 From: mlmarmer Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: ebay funny of the day
I guess Ex-Mint means "it was mint when it was first made and sold in a toy
store" and now it is "Ex-Mint", meaning no longer mint and destroy by some
kid in the 40's. A new grading term, indeed. LOL!!

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@...>
To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 9:40 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] ebay funny of the day


> Okay guys, I must be missing something in this ebay listing. Ex-mint
> condition? Don't know what his reserve is, but my generous $5.00 bid
> didn't make it.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1717113076
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18630 From: David Dewey Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: Another chatroom try
bill & All,
I too have that problem, actually the "rubber band" strikes twice,
although I usualy end up with a window about 4 to 6 lines high. I think
YAHOO needs some talkin' to. HEY LUCY!! (Uh sorry, that just hit me)
S'
David
Group: S-Trains Message: 18631 From: Roger Delthony Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Hard Rubber Roadbed
Dear John,

I have a faint recollection of glycerine being suggested as a softening
agent. I haven't used it myself, so can't offer a personal
recommendation. There are several chemists on the TCA board
(toytrains@yahoogroups.com). You might post your question there.

Roger Delthony
Group: S-Trains Message: 18632 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: Steam Engines
Oops. My last e-mail on the setting sun should have been addressed to Gill! Sorry Tom.
Rance Velapoldi

"Gill W. Lott" wrote:
Group: S-Trains Message: 18633 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: Steam Engines
Hi Tom:
I was intrigued by your "TSNSITM" comment and had to whip out my wife's almanac for northern Norway. Actually (and maybe only for nitpicking retired people who moved to Norway), it looks as though the sun rises at
10:09 am and sets at 12:05 pm on Jan 21 in Vardø, Norway) so on the 20th it probably sets a little sooner. In fact, in Vardø on July 14th it rises at 1:35 am and sets the next morning at 0:42 am which may be
considered to be the sun setting in the morning!!! Quite a long day! I don't know if I have translated the Norwegian very well, so this is probably just a tempest in a teapot. Like the steam engines, just blowing
smoke!
Regards,
Rance Velapoldi, Norway
ps My wife says I am being too technical!!

"Gill W. Lott" wrote:

> Attached is another source for those of us who are visual learners. It is a page (#21) from Jim Boyd's book 'The Steam Locomotive: A Century of North American Classic' printed by Barnes & Noble ISBN 0-7607-1627-7.
>
> Have a geat day, TSNSITM! (The Sun Never Sets In The Morning!)
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18634 From: crustyfour Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: More MTH smoke unit
I found this page about installing an MTH smoke unit. I don't think
it is "S" but does have some good info. Especially the warning about
too much voltage. Don't know if this warning would apply to the
units suitable for "S" use.

http://www.trainweb.org/fcen-rr/mth-smoke.html

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 18635 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: ebay funny of the day
I have the same Manoil car. It is a grade better in condition.
The one on e-bay should not go for more than $ 5.00 If it was
properly repainted I would value it at $ 12.00
If it was in Mint condition. Original paint, no scratches. Looks
like bran new. I would offer $20.00 at an antique store. It would
not cost more than $5.00 to ship it. I would deduct the cost of shipping
from the value so I would not spend more then $20.00
There just might be some ignorant collector that would pay an excessive
price for this item. Hopefully, no one will bid on it.

Roger Hinds

"Roger V. Petrella Jr." wrote:

> Okay guys, I must be missing something in this ebay listing. Ex-mint
> condition? Don't know what his reserve is, but my generous $5.00 bid
> didn't make it.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1717113076
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18636 From: David Dewey Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: Steam Engines
Rance,
Lay off the Lutafish!!
Nurse, MEDS!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18637 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re Chat problems
Hi group, I had troubles last Sunday logging into the chat room using
Netscape 4.7. I kept getting all kinds of error messages which I
never got before Yahoo did the last upgrade...
When I switched to IE 5, I got in with no problems or errors. Maybe
your problems are browser related like mine was???
Just my 2 cents

Fred
Group: S-Trains Message: 18638 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Speaking of Roadbed
What is the general opinion as to an alternative to the flyer
roadbed? Who sells it? Thanks,John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18639 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: 12b Transformers
Hi,

Can anyone tell me with certainty how the wattage is distributed across the four terminals of a 250 watt #12b transformer? Is it equally? In other words, would each terminal (fixed or variable) have a potential 62.5 watts of power?

Thanks,
Tim



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18640 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: 12b Transformers
Last time I looked the whole thing ran off 1 big winding. That means
it's 250 watts in total. If you load down one tap with 100 watts you
have 150 for the other three, etc. for other combinations. That's why if
you have excessive draw on one circuit it slows down the other side
somewhat. Still a great transformer and superior to the 18 or 30 with
their stupid and unreliable dead man control turret

Tim Brown wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Can anyone tell me with certainty how the wattage is distributed across the four terminals of a 250 watt #12b transformer? Is it equally? In other words, would each terminal (fixed or variable) have a potential 62.5 watts of power?
>
> Thanks,
> Tim
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18641 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: 12b Transformers
Which means that if I use an 8b transformer with no accessories wired to the other terminal, I have 100 watts of power to the trains on the track? And if I use a 12b transformer with no accessories wired to the other terminal, I have 250 watts of power to the trains on the track?

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Smith
To: Tim Brown
Cc: S-List
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] 12b Transformers


Last time I looked the whole thing ran off 1 big winding. That means
it's 250 watts in total. If you load down one tap with 100 watts you
have 150 for the other three, etc. for other combinations. That's why if
you have excessive draw on one circuit it slows down the other side
somewhat. Still a great transformer and superior to the 18 or 30 with
their stupid and unreliable dead man control turret

Tim Brown wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Can anyone tell me with certainty how the wattage is distributed across the four terminals of a 250 watt #12b transformer? Is it equally? In other words, would each terminal (fixed or variable) have a potential 62.5 watts of power?
>
> Thanks,
> Tim
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18642 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: Speaking of Roadbed
In a message dated 3/27/02 2:28:31 PM, hcopter51@... writes:

<< What is the general opinion as to an alternative to the flyer
roadbed? Who sells it? Thanks,John B. >>

Contact Rick Johnson (310)-371-9668. I have used some of this product in S,
O, and Std. gauges. It is a very good product -- looks good and works well --
it ain't too cheap, however.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 18643 From: dadaw56 Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Durn chatroom.
Hi,

Well, 5ish pm in St. Louis. Tried chat again in hopes of reaching
Paul. Still only a squished window and "***General Chat Error.
Please Try Again" is all I get when I try to send a hello. I'm using
Microsoft Internet Explorer version 5.5. I have a pentium 120 with
Windows 95 and I had been able to get on the chat pre-December, '01.
A virus crashed my hard drive and required formatting everything.
I've got to go now, but will try again in the 9-10pm hour St. Louis
time. Maybe I'll catch David.

Thanks for any help. I don't get much of an opportunity to join
chat, but it would be nice to know I could if I had the chance.

Later, maybe?

Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 18644 From: dadaw56 Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Chatroom headway!
Hi,

I went to chat again, hit F11, the screen is now expanded! But still
can't send anything. And hitting F11 again doesn't contract the
screen. Aaarrrggghhhhh! Gotta go.

Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 18645 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: Speaking of Roadbed
Hi,

I've used it too and have found it comparable to the cost of Flyer roadbed if bought in larger quantities.

Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: rbubeck327@...
To: HCOPTER51@... ; S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Speaking of Roadbed



In a message dated 3/27/02 2:28:31 PM, hcopter51@... writes:

<< What is the general opinion as to an alternative to the flyer
roadbed? Who sells it? Thanks,John B. >>

Contact Rick Johnson (310)-371-9668. I have used some of this product in S,
O, and Std. gauges. It is a very good product -- looks good and works well --
it ain't too cheap, however.

RB

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18646 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: 12b Transformers
Yep!

Tim Brown wrote:
>
> Which means that if I use an 8b transformer with no accessories wired to the other terminal, I have 100 watts of power to the trains on the track? And if I use a 12b transformer with no accessories wired to the other terminal, I have 250 watts of power to the trains on the track?
>
> -Tim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chuck Smith
> To: Tim Brown
> Cc: S-List
> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 4:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] 12b Transformers
>
> Last time I looked the whole thing ran off 1 big winding. That means
> it's 250 watts in total. If you load down one tap with 100 watts you
> have 150 for the other three, etc. for other combinations. That's why if
> you have excessive draw on one circuit it slows down the other side
> somewhat. Still a great transformer and superior to the 18 or 30 with
> their stupid and unreliable dead man control turret
>
> Tim Brown wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Can anyone tell me with certainty how the wattage is distributed across the four terminals of a 250 watt #12b transformer? Is it equally? In other words, would each terminal (fixed or variable) have a potential 62.5 watts of power?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Tim
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> --
> Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
> and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
>
> "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
> than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18647 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: turret transformers
Chuck, I am sorry that your Flyer turret transformers trouble you. I love
mine. I consider them the greatest toy train controller ever made -- they
are certainly the closest to a real loco's controls. With maintenance,
which is usually simple, they perform perfectly.

Funny how different people like different things, isn't it? I forget that
all the time.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18648 From: Steve Blancard Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
jarcho@... wrote:

> snip

> I consider them the greatest toy train controller ever made -- they
> are certainly the closest to a real loco's controls. With maintenance,
> which is usually simple, they perform perfectly.
> snip

I just bought a 30B. What maintenance do you recommend ?

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 18649 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: 12b Transformers
Well! Alrighty then!

Thanks,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Smith
To: Tim Brown
Cc: S-List
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] 12b Transformers


Yep!

Tim Brown wrote:
>
> Which means that if I use an 8b transformer with no accessories wired to the other terminal, I have 100 watts of power to the trains on the track? And if I use a 12b transformer with no accessories wired to the other terminal, I have 250 watts of power to the trains on the track?
>
> -Tim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chuck Smith
> To: Tim Brown
> Cc: S-List
> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 4:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] 12b Transformers
>
> Last time I looked the whole thing ran off 1 big winding. That means
> it's 250 watts in total. If you load down one tap with 100 watts you
> have 150 for the other three, etc. for other combinations. That's why if
> you have excessive draw on one circuit it slows down the other side
> somewhat. Still a great transformer and superior to the 18 or 30 with
> their stupid and unreliable dead man control turret
>
> Tim Brown wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Can anyone tell me with certainty how the wattage is distributed across the four terminals of a 250 watt #12b transformer? Is it equally? In other words, would each terminal (fixed or variable) have a potential 62.5 watts of power?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Tim
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> --
> Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
> and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
>
> "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
> than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18650 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
I don't have any to trouble me. I use a 12B and several smaller
non-deadman transformers. My experience comes from our club set ups at
train shows where we use the 30Bs a lot. When the turrets get a little
wobbly with age there doesn't seem to be any real fix.

My first choice for operation is individual 75-100 watters where all the
throttle knobs turn clockwise for faster and go OFF when run fully
counterclockwise (The way God intended).

jarcho@... wrote:
>
> Chuck, I am sorry that your Flyer turret transformers trouble you. I love
> mine. I consider them the greatest toy train controller ever made -- they
> are certainly the closest to a real loco's controls. With maintenance,
> which is usually simple, they perform perfectly.
>
> Funny how different people like different things, isn't it? I forget that
> all the time.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18651 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Hi,

Interesting. I have a home layout with 5 large blocks. Currently I'm using five #8b transformers with pretty good results. I've been thinking about upgrading to #12b for the added wattage when two locos are inadvertently in the same block and to get the most from the smoke units. So you think it would be worth the added cost?

-Tim

Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html

----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Smith
To: jarcho@...
Cc: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] turret transformers


I don't have any to trouble me. I use a 12B and several smaller
non-deadman transformers. My experience comes from our club set ups at
train shows where we use the 30Bs a lot. When the turrets get a little
wobbly with age there doesn't seem to be any real fix.

My first choice for operation is individual 75-100 watters where all the
throttle knobs turn clockwise for faster and go OFF when run fully
counterclockwise (The way God intended).

jarcho@... wrote:
>
> Chuck, I am sorry that your Flyer turret transformers trouble you. I love
> mine. I consider them the greatest toy train controller ever made -- they
> are certainly the closest to a real loco's controls. With maintenance,
> which is usually simple, they perform perfectly.
>
> Funny how different people like different things, isn't it? I forget that
> all the time.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18652 From: Steve Blancard Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
I've been running a 12B and I like it. But I just bought a 30B because I wanted the deadman control to keep the dog-gone revers unit from cycling everytime I stop...Ok. I also wanted more power. I started with an 8B, but there was a noticable increase in loco speed when I went to the 12B.

Steve Blancard

Tim Brown wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Interesting. I have a home layout with 5 large blocks. Currently I'm using five #8b transformers with pretty good results. I've been thinking about upgrading to #12b for the added wattage when two locos are inadvertently in the same block and to get the most from the smoke units. So you think it would be worth the added cost?
>
> -Tim
>
> Please visit my web page at:
> http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chuck Smith
> To: jarcho@...
> Cc: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 8:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] turret transformers
>
> I don't have any to trouble me. I use a 12B and several smaller
> non-deadman transformers. My experience comes from our club set ups at
> train shows where we use the 30Bs a lot. When the turrets get a little
> wobbly with age there doesn't seem to be any real fix.
>
> My first choice for operation is individual 75-100 watters where all the
> throttle knobs turn clockwise for faster and go OFF when run fully
> counterclockwise (The way God intended).
>
> jarcho@... wrote:
> >
> > Chuck, I am sorry that your Flyer turret transformers trouble you. I love
> > mine. I consider them the greatest toy train controller ever made -- they
> > are certainly the closest to a real loco's controls. With maintenance,
> > which is usually simple, they perform perfectly.
> >
> > Funny how different people like different things, isn't it? I forget that
> > all the time.
> >
> > Tom Jarcho
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> --
> Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
> and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
>
> "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
> than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18653 From: Steve Blancard Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Switches and controllers
I have noticed that there are at least 3 different variations of the
720A switch. One type uses fahnstock clips for the power terminals,
another uses colored rings on the terminal posts and the 3rd has colored
dots branded into the plastic next to each terminal post. When was each
type made ? Is any one better than another?

On a related note; One your layouts, how do you guys identify what
controller goes with what switch ? Colored dots? Number labels ? Memory
? My 10'x16' layout will have 10 switches and while in time I can
probably memorize the controllers, I'd like to make it easy for visitors
and kids to figure it out. Appreciate any suggestions.

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 18654 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
I run mostly AM and SHS locos with electronic reverse if AC, so the dead
man control does nothing for me vis-a-vis locking out reverse unit.
These locos default to forward again after a short period off, say, 4-10
seconds. I use the AC because I like the sound feature. My new SHS F3
runs with Locomatic control so start, stop and reverse is all done with
push buttons with precise speed control.
I also run a lot of DC with polarity reversing.
So I'm somewhat biased by a lack of need for reverse lockout.

Steve Blancard wrote:
>
> I've been running a 12B and I like it. But I just bought a 30B because I wanted the deadman control to keep the dog-gone revers unit from cycling everytime I stop...Ok. I also wanted more power. I started with an 8B, but there was a noticable increase in loco speed when I went to the 12B.
>
> Steve Blancard
>
> Tim Brown wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Interesting. I have a home layout with 5 large blocks. Currently I'm using five #8b transformers with pretty good results. I've been thinking about upgrading to #12b for the added wattage when two locos are inadvertently in the same block and to get the most from the smoke units. So you think it would be worth the added cost?
> >
> > -Tim
> >
> > Please visit my web page at:
> > http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Chuck Smith
> > To: jarcho@...
> > Cc: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 8:00 PM
> > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] turret transformers
> >
> > I don't have any to trouble me. I use a 12B and several smaller
> > non-deadman transformers. My experience comes from our club set ups at
> > train shows where we use the 30Bs a lot. When the turrets get a little
> > wobbly with age there doesn't seem to be any real fix.
> >
> > My first choice for operation is individual 75-100 watters where all the
> > throttle knobs turn clockwise for faster and go OFF when run fully
> > counterclockwise (The way God intended).
> >
> > jarcho@... wrote:
> > >
> > > Chuck, I am sorry that your Flyer turret transformers trouble you. I love
> > > mine. I consider them the greatest toy train controller ever made -- they
> > > are certainly the closest to a real loco's controls. With maintenance,
> > > which is usually simple, they perform perfectly.
> > >
> > > Funny how different people like different things, isn't it? I forget that
> > > all the time.
> > >
> > > Tom Jarcho
> > >
> > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> > >
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> > --
> > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
> > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
> >
> > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
> > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18655 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: Switches and controllers
See below

Steve Blancard wrote:
>
> I have noticed that there are at least 3 different variations of the
> 720A switch. One type uses fahnstock clips for the power terminals,
> another uses colored rings on the terminal posts and the 3rd has colored
> dots branded into the plastic next to each terminal post. When was each
> type made ? Is any one better than another?

-The dots were middle vintage and the best, and apparently had a long
production run.
-Early vintage with rings were dogs, many are warped now. Their
controller keeps power on to the switch all the time. You have to be
sure they don't hang up and burn out. I think these were made in the
mid to late forties.
-I have no experience with the clips which were the most recent.
>
> On a related note; One your layouts, how do you guys identify what
> controller goes with what switch ? Colored dots? Number labels ? Memory?

I use a combination of number labels and memory for many switches. It
ain't perfect but I'll probably never build a schematic control panel,
which is the ideal, so that's it.

> My 10'x16' layout will have 10 switches and while in time I can
> probably memorize the controllers, I'd like to make it easy for visitors
> and kids to figure it out. Appreciate any suggestions.
>
> Steve Blancard
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18656 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Hi Steve,

That's what I figured. I imagine the smoke units will run better, too. I'm going to start looking at train meets for 12b and sell off my 8b transformers.

Maybe I'll see you at the next train meet.

-Tim

Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Blancard
To: Tim Brown
Cc: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 9:38 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] turret transformers


I've been running a 12B and I like it. But I just bought a 30B because I wanted the deadman control to keep the dog-gone revers unit from cycling everytime I stop...Ok. I also wanted more power. I started with an 8B, but there was a noticable increase in loco speed when I went to the 12B.

Steve Blancard

Tim Brown wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Interesting. I have a home layout with 5 large blocks. Currently I'm using five #8b transformers with pretty good results. I've been thinking about upgrading to #12b for the added wattage when two locos are inadvertently in the same block and to get the most from the smoke units. So you think it would be worth the added cost?
>
> -Tim
>
> Please visit my web page at:
> http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chuck Smith
> To: jarcho@...
> Cc: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 8:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] turret transformers
>
> I don't have any to trouble me. I use a 12B and several smaller
> non-deadman transformers. My experience comes from our club set ups at
> train shows where we use the 30Bs a lot. When the turrets get a little
> wobbly with age there doesn't seem to be any real fix.
>
> My first choice for operation is individual 75-100 watters where all the
> throttle knobs turn clockwise for faster and go OFF when run fully
> counterclockwise (The way God intended).
>
> jarcho@... wrote:
> >
> > Chuck, I am sorry that your Flyer turret transformers trouble you. I love
> > mine. I consider them the greatest toy train controller ever made -- they
> > are certainly the closest to a real loco's controls. With maintenance,
> > which is usually simple, they perform perfectly.
> >
> > Funny how different people like different things, isn't it? I forget that
> > all the time.
> >
> > Tom Jarcho
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> --
> Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
> and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
>
> "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
> than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18657 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: Switches and controllers
Hi again,

I've heard that the fahnstock clips were used when the steel for the knurled nuts was a little scarce during the war.

I use self-stick letters and numbers I got at an office supply store. I stick them on the switch and the corresponding controller. Actually, I like HO switch controllers 'cuz they are smaller, non-illuminated and much cheaper. They are three-wire so I run a separate circuit for the lights.

-Tim

Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Blancard
To: S- Trains list
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 9:51 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Switches and controllers


I have noticed that there are at least 3 different variations of the
720A switch. One type uses fahnstock clips for the power terminals,
another uses colored rings on the terminal posts and the 3rd has colored
dots branded into the plastic next to each terminal post. When was each
type made ? Is any one better than another?

On a related note; One your layouts, how do you guys identify what
controller goes with what switch ? Colored dots? Number labels ? Memory
? My 10'x16' layout will have 10 switches and while in time I can
probably memorize the controllers, I'd like to make it easy for visitors
and kids to figure it out. Appreciate any suggestions.

Steve Blancard



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18658 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
There are advantages and disadvantages to each. As a kid of course, I
would gaze wistfully at illustrations of the "dead man" control in
the 1954 instruction book, and wish I had one. After working with a
15B for a number of years on our Christmas layout, I have mixed
feelings about it.

The DM control is a little confusing to many kids. Even when they DO
finally get the concept, It's nearly impossible to get them to
understand that when cycling through reverse, they don't need to
latch the handle down completely each time, just tap it TO the clip,
then latch when they get to the direction they want to keep going.
(Latching the handle every time leads to unnecessary wear on the
handle and clip.) The simplicity of the non-DM controls has become
more appealing to me as time has worn on.

Still, the DM control does have a replaceable contact roller on the
wiper which is easier on the secondary windings than the simple slide
contacts in the other Gilbert transformers. We still use our sole DM
transformer on the Christmas layout only, so we haven't experienced
any wear problems with the turret, despite some fairly brutal
treatment by certain young engineer-trainees. On our modular system
we use a quartet of 8Bs for track power, accessories, and lighting.

BTW, Gilbert recommended that when considering power needs, one
should count on actually using no more than 75% of a transformer's
given power rating. They do load down in practical use.

Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18659 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Manoil Coupe on Ebay
In a message dated 03/27/2002 12:15:02 PM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> From: "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@...>
> Subject: ebay funny of the day
>
> Okay guys, I must be missing something in this ebay listing. Ex-mint
> condition? Don't know what his reserve is, but my generous $5.00 bid
> didn't make it.
>
> Roger, I recognize that Manoil Coupe. It was a survivor of Yucca Flats in
1950.

Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18661 From: David Dewey Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: Switches and controllers
Steve & List,
First, the question is about 720A switches, not the earlier 720s which
have the base that matches the track curve.
Now don't hold me to this, as it is based on observation, and not
factory records.
The color circles under the post are earlier, probably up to about '53,
The Fahnstock clips I think are from about '54-55--although there is
suspicion that they may have just been a production variation. I will be
inspecting date stamps soon to see if I can verify any of this. The colored
dots are the "final" version, lasting from about '55 to end.
I'm in the midst of writing about 720s, type 1 and 2 right now, in
another month I'll get to the 720As
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18662 From: David Dewey Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
I like to add two buttons to my track connections on Turret Transfomers. One
button is normally closed, the one next to it is normally open. The normally
closed is on the 7-15V post to track, the normally open is on the 15V post
(OK, so it's actually 18V or so). These allow me to kill power to the track
and provide bursts of full voltage to cycle reverse units. Placed close
together, you can push both with on hand. I've looked for a single toggle
switch that would do this, but haven't found one yet. The idea is to save
wear and tear on the turret handle clips.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18663 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/27/2002
Subject: Re: Switches and controllers
David,
And which are the #26760? Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18664 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Good idea. Roger Delthoney made our club (RASG) control boxes for the
30B's to include full or half wave DC conversion when desired, sound
buttons and toggling illuminated push button kill switches. The kill
switches were added primarily to provide dependable power kill for
questionable dead man controls. However, we find them useful to help
cycle sequence reverse units, though we don't provide the full voltage
jolt.
David Dewey wrote:
>
> I like to add two buttons to my track connections on Turret Transfomers. One
> button is normally closed, the one next to it is normally open. The normally
> closed is on the 7-15V post to track, the normally open is on the 15V post
> (OK, so it's actually 18V or so). These allow me to kill power to the track
> and provide bursts of full voltage to cycle reverse units. Placed close
> together, you can push both with on hand. I've looked for a single toggle
> switch that would do this, but haven't found one yet. The idea is to save
> wear and tear on the turret handle clips.
> S'
> David D.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18665 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Hi,

I'm afraid I don't understand the concept you've outlined. I can understand having a momentary 'kill' button for the track to cycle the reverse unit. Some #8b and #12b transformers came with one. What I don't understand is why you would want a button off the fixed post. Does it also go to the track? If so, why? With no accessories connected to it, you are already getting full wattage to the track as was explained in posts last night. Oh wait, I get it. You kill the power to the accessories with that other button, so when you use the track button, you ARE getting full power to the track for the reverse unit. Right?

Thanks,
Tim

Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html
----- Original Message -----
From: David Dewey
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com ; jahoozdumm
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 2:08 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: turret transformers


I like to add two buttons to my track connections on Turret Transfomers. One
button is normally closed, the one next to it is normally open. The normally
closed is on the 7-15V post to track, the normally open is on the 15V post
(OK, so it's actually 18V or so). These allow me to kill power to the track
and provide bursts of full voltage to cycle reverse units. Placed close
together, you can push both with on hand. I've looked for a single toggle
switch that would do this, but haven't found one yet. The idea is to save
wear and tear on the turret handle clips.
S'
David D.


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All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18666 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Hi,

Follow up to this thread:
Why not just use a separate transformer for all the accessories? I use the variable post for the light circuit to dim them where I want them. This way, it's one less 'kill' button for all the transformers.

Thanks,
Tim


Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Smith
To: David Dewey
Cc: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com ; jahoozdumm
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: turret transformers


Good idea. Roger Delthoney made our club (RASG) control boxes for the
30B's to include full or half wave DC conversion when desired, sound
buttons and toggling illuminated push button kill switches. The kill
switches were added primarily to provide dependable power kill for
questionable dead man controls. However, we find them useful to help
cycle sequence reverse units, though we don't provide the full voltage
jolt.
David Dewey wrote:
>
> I like to add two buttons to my track connections on Turret Transfomers. One
> button is normally closed, the one next to it is normally open. The normally
> closed is on the 7-15V post to track, the normally open is on the 15V post
> (OK, so it's actually 18V or so). These allow me to kill power to the track
> and provide bursts of full voltage to cycle reverse units. Placed close
> together, you can push both with on hand. I've looked for a single toggle
> switch that would do this, but haven't found one yet. The idea is to save
> wear and tear on the turret handle clips.
> S'
> David D.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18667 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Chat attempts
Greetings,

I did not have any success on Wed. night on entering the chatroom. I've
downloaded Yahoo Messenger, but did not get to try it out yet.

I have been trying to enter chat mid-week. That is why my posts are
showing up mid-week. I think that if I gain entrance, at least my name
would show up in the chatters box.

Paul, the chat window I am getting now looks like the one you sent me,
tho different server. My chat window gets to Logging dadaw56
(webstergroves/63.157.24.123) into the chat system... and goes no
further. If I try to post, I get ***General chat error. Please try
again.

As I said before, AAarrrrrgggghhhhh!!!!!

Thanks,

Bill

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18668 From: THOMAS E HILLERY Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1395
Re: Transformers
Consider the 22090- most power from two true separate transformers in
one case- the 0 mph position keeps the reverse unit from cycling but the
loco doesn't creep, the forward-off-reverse
levels allow quick transitions and you can see it across the layout, and
if I remember it is the only big one that is UL rated and has nice
circuit breakers. My Dad got mine 43 years ago and it has been perfect.
Use some small ones for accessories--Tom HIllery
Group: S-Trains Message: 18669 From: aag_rlg Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
I'm with Tim. I need more explanation from David on why the two
buttons. I plan to use one button as an on/off switch to cycle
reverse units and minimize wear and tear on my 18B, however, I'm not
sure I understand how the second button delivers a voltage jolt. Is
the second button essentially connecting the single voltage post to
the same rail as the variable voltage post momentarily? Electricity
is not my strong point.

Thanks,
Art
Group: S-Trains Message: 18670 From: David Dewey Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Tim,
You're getting to complex! The turret only controls the variable
voltage. My buttons are only on the leads to the track. The reverse units
like at least 7 and sometimes a little more voltage to cycle. My "full
power, Scotty!" button is to the track and allows a burst of energy that
usually cycles the reverse unit before the motor has a chance to react. This
also improves realism, as you loco doesn't go backwards or forwards when you
cycling the reverse unit.
The accessories should remain un-effected by the button pushing,
although I like to run mine off a separate transformer--isn't that what all
those 1-1/2s are for?? ;-)
It is also a good idea to have a "PANIC!" switch that cuts off the track
power in the event of a near-disaster--an "on-off" toggle switch is great
for this, you can even get one that has an illuminated handle.
Geez, the place is starting to look like a mad scientist's control
panel! More switches Igor!! We must have switches!
Hmm, wonder if we could put in one of those random blinking light panels
from some TV show for more effect. . . .
I gotta stop posting before work. . . .
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18671 From: David Dewey Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: Switches and controllers
MIke,
AFIK, they are colored dots, and oftentimes a different plastic
material, you can see mold flow lines in them. Also Usually comes with the
late plastic lever, no lights controller.
Not mentioned are the really scarce reverse loop switching switches. The
rails have some gaps in them, that's what I understand is the externally
different thing to look for, oh, and no "two train/reg.opr." switch also. I
haven't seen one yet!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18672 From: David Dewey Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Art,
You Got it!! Neither switch is on the "base post" ; the kill switch is
on the variable post, the "power pulse" switch is on the fixed voltage post,
both end up on the track power lead.
My mention of a Panic Button could be on the base post, ahead of
anything else--I just thought of this.
S'
David D.
Still not at work!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18673 From: Horn, David Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: transformers and switches
I use 1-1/2B, 4B, 12B, 15B, and 16B transformers on my layout at home, and
am the steward of our club's two 30B's. Scraper or roller, with or without
DM control/turret, with a little care and feeding they're all good
transformers. It pretty much comes down to personal preference. With
turret style there are some common maintenance measures that have primarily
to do with the roller and turrets, especially in terms of whether you
replace the roller with AF or Lionel style parts. But there are nuances
about them too, such as with the 30B's the wires inside to the each turret
can look perfectly fine, but actually have fatigued in places inside their
insulation causing drop-out points along the speed range. This can drive
you nuts at first.

On switches, I agree, the ones with the dots are best. But they're not all
the exactly same. Nearly any 720A with dots in reasonably good condition
will work fine with 99% of AF engines. However, I have found a few things
to look for in order for a switch to be friendly to all engines including,
for example, the 21004 0-6-0 with its pilot-free relatively light engine and
short flanged drivers compared to other AF steamers.

PS Steve, come over sometime with your 30B and I'll show you what I've
learned helps to keep our club's units in tip top condition. We can talk
switches then too. Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 18674 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: Steam Engines
Hi Ken:
Tx for info and sites. Almost fits the old Woody Allen title - all you
wanted to know about "steam engines" but were afraid to ask! Well, it
was something else in the quotes.
Rance

Ken Garber wrote:

> [Please forward to S-Trains]
>
> A quick search on Google and:
>
> http://www.steamlocomotive.com/misc/wheels.html
>
> http://www.spikesys.com/Trains/wyte_sys.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 18675 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: full power button
Somewhere someone is smiling, because they're about to make some more money.

If you try that "Full power, Scotty!" button on a loco with a solid state
reverse unit, you will come up with a new toy railroading delicacy.

Fried Chippo!

Tom
Group: S-Trains Message: 18676 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Hi,

Ooooh. I get it. You cut power using the button on the variable post, then jolt the reverse unit with the button on the fixed post that is also connected to the track. After all that and it's not a concept I can use 'cuz I run my trains on DC current (with reverse units disconnected) and use DPDT switches for direction control. Still, nice idea for the AC guys out there.

Thanks,
Tim

Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html
----- Original Message -----
From: David Dewey
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com ; aag_rlg
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: turret transformers


Art,
You Got it!! Neither switch is on the "base post" ; the kill switch is
on the variable post, the "power pulse" switch is on the fixed voltage post,
both end up on the track power lead.
My mention of a Panic Button could be on the base post, ahead of
anything else--I just thought of this.
S'
David D.
Still not at work!


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18677 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Ohm's Law
Hi Guys,

I bought a DC ammeter at Radio Shack last night and tested my locos. They were pretty much at or better than spec. Means to me they are well maintained and lubed.

Here's a couple good links if you want to learn a little bit about circuits and stuff:

http://webhome.idirect.com/~jadams/electronics/ohm.htm

http://home.a-city.de/walter.fendt/physengl/ohmslaw.htm

Have fun,

Tim

Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18678 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: transformers and switches
Is it possible to run two trains at once off of one side of the 18B?
Or do you have to use both controllers, one for each train? Thanks to
all for their continued help and advice. Happy Easter! John B.


--- In S-Trains@y..., "Horn, David" <david.horn@b...> wrote:
> I use 1-1/2B, 4B, 12B, 15B, and 16B transformers on my layout at
home, and
> am the steward of our club's two 30B's. Scraper or roller, with or
without
> DM control/turret, with a little care and feeding they're all good
> transformers. It pretty much comes down to personal preference.
With
> turret style there are some common maintenance measures that have
primarily
> to do with the roller and turrets, especially in terms of whether
you
> replace the roller with AF or Lionel style parts. But there are
nuances
> about them too, such as with the 30B's the wires inside to the each
turret
> can look perfectly fine, but actually have fatigued in places
inside their
> insulation causing drop-out points along the speed range. This can
drive
> you nuts at first.
>
> On switches, I agree, the ones with the dots are best. But they're
not all
> the exactly same. Nearly any 720A with dots in reasonably good
condition
> will work fine with 99% of AF engines. However, I have found a few
things
> to look for in order for a switch to be friendly to all engines
including,
> for example, the 21004 0-6-0 with its pilot-free relatively light
engine and
> short flanged drivers compared to other AF steamers.
>
> PS Steve, come over sometime with your 30B and I'll show you what
I've
> learned helps to keep our club's units in tip top condition. We
can talk
> switches then too. Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 18679 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: transformers and switches
Hi,

Yep it's possible. There certainly is enuf power. But why would you want to? Unless the trains are perfectly matched, one will catch up to the other. You could switch one off to another line before that happens, tho'.

Have fun,
Tim

Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html
----- Original Message -----
From: hcopter52
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 1:17 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: transformers and switches


Is it possible to run two trains at once off of one side of the 18B?
Or do you have to use both controllers, one for each train? Thanks to
all for their continued help and advice. Happy Easter! John B.


--- In S-Trains@y..., "Horn, David" <david.horn@b...> wrote:
> I use 1-1/2B, 4B, 12B, 15B, and 16B transformers on my layout at
home, and
> am the steward of our club's two 30B's. Scraper or roller, with or
without
> DM control/turret, with a little care and feeding they're all good
> transformers. It pretty much comes down to personal preference.
With
> turret style there are some common maintenance measures that have
primarily
> to do with the roller and turrets, especially in terms of whether
you
> replace the roller with AF or Lionel style parts. But there are
nuances
> about them too, such as with the 30B's the wires inside to the each
turret
> can look perfectly fine, but actually have fatigued in places
inside their
> insulation causing drop-out points along the speed range. This can
drive
> you nuts at first.
>
> On switches, I agree, the ones with the dots are best. But they're
not all
> the exactly same. Nearly any 720A with dots in reasonably good
condition
> will work fine with 99% of AF engines. However, I have found a few
things
> to look for in order for a switch to be friendly to all engines
including,
> for example, the 21004 0-6-0 with its pilot-free relatively light
engine and
> short flanged drivers compared to other AF steamers.
>
> PS Steve, come over sometime with your 30B and I'll show you what
I've
> learned helps to keep our club's units in tip top condition. We
can talk
> switches then too. Dave


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18680 From: hcopter52 Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Reversing Handcars
Hi All. I have a reversing handcar and was curious as to what others
use in order to reverse them on the track. I do not think a 730
bumper will work. Correct me if I am wrong. Thanks to all for their
input. John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18681 From: trzp1800 Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
Hi:
I've had an 18B for 40 years and recently aquired a 15B. Recently, at
the start of a train show, i had to perform surgery on the 15B in
order to get it to work properly for the show. Have never opened the
18B. This was after thinking i had the 15 right after working on it
all week before the show. The short story is that once you get them
properly aligned internally, they are a great smooth working
transformer. Problem is, folks work on them who don't REALLY look at
the geometry of the interacting parts, and they bend them all which
ways trying to get them to work. Also, the heat and age tend to warp
some of the fiber parts used as platforms for the wiper arms and you
have to get these things aligned again to get the units to work. Also
the transformer itself may be warped so the top is not parallel to
the base, so teh wiper has further to close at one end of the sweep
than at the other.

The turrets can be tightened up by using washers as spacers to reduce
the play. You HAVE to do this in order to use the dead man feature
effectively, since the contacts should first connect when you touch
the control arm to the clip.

If you tune 'em up right, they are great to use in a yard situation.
All you have to do is tap the control arm to the clip and you can
flip the e-unit back and forth for directional control, while
maintaining any degree of voltage on the line. Helps when you have an
older e-unit that needs a bigger boost to operate, and on the wame
layout, an S-helper that needs the transformer set at 3mph to keep
from roaring back and forth as you switch direction. You can switch
much quicker with the deadman control than you can with the rotary
control.

Then, you have to learn not to clip the arm down every time you want
to change direction. I see A LOT of folks doing this. This is where
the wear comes from and it is not necessary IF, it's adjusted. Also,
i suspect, from having gotten intimate with the internals, that
leaving these things clipped down while in storage or while waiting
all week for you to come downstairs Friday night and play with it, is
not a good idea. Just adds stress to the internals.

I like the rotaries ok, but you can see where my preference lies. I
think i'd add a variable line on/off switch to a rotary so i could
have a poor man's deadman.

Have fun, They're TOYS.
Ted
Group: S-Trains Message: 18682 From: crustyfour Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: Reversing Handcars
How about a speeding 4-8-4 Northern ? ;-)



--- In S-Trains@y..., "hcopter52" <hcopter51@a...> wrote:
> Hi All. I have a reversing handcar and was curious as to what
others
> use in order to reverse them on the track. I do not think a 730
> bumper will work. Correct me if I am wrong. Thanks to all for their
> input. John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18683 From: special_treasures_4sale Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: Reversing Handcars
I use bumpers cut from solid blocks of relatively high density grey
foam rubber. I have one at both ends of my Ike 'n Mike run. They
work great. The trick is to cut them out with the right dimensions.
Upon impact the end cap of the chassis (not the shell or reverse
lever) strikes the lower surface of the bumper. Meanwhile, the
reverse pole gently strikes another surface located higher up, set
off to the side, and recessed back from the point of chassis impact.
I once used padded wooden bumpers. They worked OK, but the foam ones
are better - - more reliable, gentler on the handcar, and much
quieter. Each bumper is held in place with one 6x32 bolt near the
center of the bumper. The lower section of each bumper fits snuggly
between the rails helping to stabilize the bumper and maintain its
alignment with the approaching handcar. The surface that the reverse
post runs into overhangs the rails off to one side. It looks like
two rectangular prisms that collided at right angles to each other.

Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 18684 From: special_treasures_4sale Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: Reversing Handcars
--- In S-Trains@y..., "crustyfour" <splitdorf@1...> wrote:
> How about a speeding 4-8-4 Northern ? ;-)
>
>

That and the big-hand-in-the-sky-crane works too, just ask Scott
Brown!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18685 From: crustyfour Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: Reversing Handcars
>
> That and the big-hand-in-the-sky-crane works too, just ask Scott
> Brown!


I can't imagine why Scott didn't trust the Northern to to reverse his
handcar... It did get pretty close a couple times - hehehe ;-) He
was dashing around the modular layout like Carl Lewis running the
hurdles!

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 18686 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: turret transformers
I would like to remind the brethren that I covered transformer repair and
testing in the May-June and Jul-Aug '98 S Gaugian Roundhouses, and not too
many errors have surfaced so far. Plus, there's a companion piece in the
Sept-Oct '98 SG Roundhouse about how poor design can cause the roller to
burn out the first few windings in the lower wattage turret transformers.

Here's what I said about the turrets:

"All kinds of things can go wrong with an old transformer. The screws that
hold the turret or handle together may become loose. The roller arn of a
turret type may contact the coil when the handle is up, in which case it
must be bent down a little. In general, there are several strategies to
pursue. Bent parts can be reshaped. Damaged parts can be replaced -- it
may be possible to combine parts from several units to make one good one.
Loose riveted assemblies can sometimes be tightened by hammering. Terminal
posts can be tightened from the inside. Damaged wires can be replaced.
Close observation, deductive reasoning, improvisation, and ingenuity, can
solve a lot of problems. However, if the basic coils of the transformer
are damaged, it should not be used."

That's not much detail; perhaps it's time to devote a column to turrets,
judging by the interest shown on list. One key assembly that is often
found in a weakened state is the rivet assembly that holds the roller arm
to the stack. i have often thought of replacing it with something stronger
and more precise. Has anyone tried this?

Here's another tidbit about Flyer turret transformers: A reader, Richard
Caruso, has written me that the thermostatic circuit breakers in them were
and still are made by KLIXON, Inc, and should still be available. That
wuld be fun to track down.

Chuck admitted that he mostly runs new stuff. The issue here is really
that we need a little black box that will reduce or limit the voltage of an
old Flyer transformer so that it can run new stuff safely and still make
use of its entire speed range.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18687 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: turret transformers
The point of building a half wave rectifier output into our club control
boxes was to start can motor engines at a lower voltage. At the full
wave rectified output they make jack rabbit starts at 7 volts. Half
wave is easy to produce- just use a single diode instead of a bridge
(full wave) rectifier. Doesn't do any good for sound nuts like me who
have to use AC.

jarcho@... wrote:
>
> I would like to remind the brethren that I covered transformer repair and
> testing in the May-June and Jul-Aug '98 S Gaugian Roundhouses, and not too
> many errors have surfaced so far. Plus, there's a companion piece in the
> Sept-Oct '98 SG Roundhouse about how poor design can cause the roller to
> burn out the first few windings in the lower wattage turret transformers.
>
> Here's what I said about the turrets:
>
> "All kinds of things can go wrong with an old transformer. The screws that
> hold the turret or handle together may become loose. The roller arn of a
> turret type may contact the coil when the handle is up, in which case it
> must be bent down a little. In general, there are several strategies to
> pursue. Bent parts can be reshaped. Damaged parts can be replaced -- it
> may be possible to combine parts from several units to make one good one.
> Loose riveted assemblies can sometimes be tightened by hammering. Terminal
> posts can be tightened from the inside. Damaged wires can be replaced.
> Close observation, deductive reasoning, improvisation, and ingenuity, can
> solve a lot of problems. However, if the basic coils of the transformer
> are damaged, it should not be used."
>
> That's not much detail; perhaps it's time to devote a column to turrets,
> judging by the interest shown on list. One key assembly that is often
> found in a weakened state is the rivet assembly that holds the roller arm
> to the stack. i have often thought of replacing it with something stronger
> and more precise. Has anyone tried this?
>
> Here's another tidbit about Flyer turret transformers: A reader, Richard
> Caruso, has written me that the thermostatic circuit breakers in them were
> and still are made by KLIXON, Inc, and should still be available. That
> wuld be fun to track down.
>
> Chuck admitted that he mostly runs new stuff. The issue here is really
> that we need a little black box that will reduce or limit the voltage of an
> old Flyer transformer so that it can run new stuff safely and still make
> use of its entire speed range.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18688 From: Rhett T. George Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: David D's pushbuttons
- Greeting`S' -

David has suggested a good way to give positive off to the track along with
a circuit to give the reverser a jolt. Careful shopping in the catalogs of
larger electronic/electrical supply houses may disclose the toggle switch
known as double-throw, center-off, one side momentary. I find these every
so oftern at hamfests where the seller has not the foggiest notion of what
to do with it.

Cheer`S'
Rhett
Group: S-Trains Message: 18689 From: David Dewey Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: David D's pushbuttons
Rhett,
That's the type switch I have been looking for. Now that I know they DO
exist, I will continue searching! Thanks!
S'
David D.
Hey Tom J, "Chips?? What chips, we don' neeed no stinkin' chips!"
Actually, you made a good point that I hadn't considered.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18690 From: hornickw Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Test; I can't get through
Just a test. I tried 3 times yesterday and twice this eveing to
post. Still can't get through and I need some help.
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 18691 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: American Flyer Coach 495
John L. wrote:

>Found a really nice American Flyer New Haven (red) passenger coach
>(all metal) and box at the Toronto Model Train Show today. Greenburg
>only refers to this item as being made between 1941 and 1945, and
>doesnt show values for it (maybe I have the wrong Greenburg book).

The Gilbert 495 coach was a prewar 3/16" O gauge piece. They were
made 1940-41 (supposedly). I dunno why Greenberg would say that it
was "being made between 1941 and 1945", since Gilbert made no trains
during WWII, the use of industrial metals being restricted during
that time, and Gilbert being somewhat preoccupied with wartime
defense contracts.

The 495 coach also has a companion baggage car numbered 494. They
were offered in red, green, tuscan, and royal blue. I see them for
sale once in a while at TTOS meets, usually for something like $20 to
$30 per car, more if condition is EX. Red, then green are the most
common colors. They convert to S gauge very well with Gilbert S gauge
link trucks, as does almost all of Gilbert's 3/16" scale O gauge
rolling stock. I have four 495 coaches and a baggage car that I'm
restoring and converting to make up a Royal Blue consist for my
wife's 350 steamer.

Gilbert also made a 496 Pullman coach and a 497 Pullman observation
in sheet metal (not to be confused with the prewar diecast 521
combine and 524 coach) that also look good with the 494/495 cars. The
sheet metal Pullmans are much harder to find than the New Haven cars
though. Greenberg's Guide to American Flyer Prewar O gauge shows a
picture of the 497, but not the 496. I have one of each, which will
also become part of my Royal Blue. In 16+ years of AF collecting, my
497 is the only one I've ever seen. I've seen only one 496 other than
my own. G's G to Pw AF "O" lists these Pullmans at $90 each for
excellent condition, but that was in 1987.

My 497 has been restored (it was the car with the 1/8" holes in the
body I referred to in an earlier post about removing rust with Naval
Jelly.) Finding 6-wheel link trucks for the conversion of the 12-
wheeled 496/497 proved to be futile. I made 6-wheel trucks for the
497 by combining 4-wheel trucks in pairs, each pair sharing the
center axle. The 496 is next in line for "the shop."


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18692 From: hornickw Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Test...can't post
This is just a test. I tried 3 times on Sunday to post a message but
it never showed up. I also tried, for the first time, to join the
chat; it didn't really work either.
John Hornick
Group: S-Trains Message: 18693 From: TCS Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Fw: Yahooed!! :(
> I've just been alerted by a friend that Yahoo have just made a sneaky
> change to everybody's 'Marketing Preferences', the result of which
will
> be a load of spam. So, I've just been in and changed back what they've
> done so that I won't be receiving their ads! They had changed ALL of
my
> *No's* to *Yes!*
>
> Here's what you need to do:
>
> Go to My Groups and click on Account Info, verify your password if it
> asks you to, and your Yahoo ID card comes up. Click on 'Edit your
> Marketing Preferences' and change all those Yes's back to No's! Click
> Save Changes
>
> ---
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18694 From: softmoods@vcn.com Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Steam Excursion
Hi All,

Sorry for the multiple postings.

On behalf of the Sherman Hill Model Railroad Club, Inc, I'm pleased to
make the following Press Release:

SHERMAN HILL MODEL RAILROAD CLUB, INC presents

AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC FOR RIDING

STEAM EXCURSION WITH UNION PACIFIC CHALLENGER # 3985

Where: Cheyenne to Laramie over Sherman Hill and Return

ACT NOW - TRIP WILL SELL SELL OUT

When: Saturday . 27 JULY 2002

Time: 1:00pm

TICKET PRICES:

DOME SEATS - $ 300.00 ea

COACH SEATS - $ 220.00 ea

MAXIMUM OF 6 TICKETS PER ORDER

INCLUDES BOX LUNCH TICKETS MAILED - 20 JUNE 2002


RAFFLE TICKETS FOR

SEAT REIMBURSEMENT * - $ 10.00 ea MAXIMUM OF 2 SEATS

CAB RIDE * - $ 10.00 ea FROM PHOTO RUN-BY TO LARAMIE

* MUST HOLD VALID TICKET FOR TRIP


TRIP IS NON-SMOKING

Before purchasing tickets, please read the trip rules and policies
page on the club's web site. By purchasing these tickets, you are
agreeing to the trip rules and policies.

Club Web Site: www.shermanhillmrrc.org shmrc@...


VISA / MASTERCARD / AM EX / DISCOVER - ARE ACCEPTED

Make checks / money orders to: SHERMAN HILL MODEL RAILROAD CLUB, INC

and mail to: SHERMAN HILL MODEL RAILROAD CLUB, INC
% ROBERT SHERWOOD
2837 OLIVE DR
CHEYENNE, WY 82001-5736

For information or mail orders contact:
Robert Sherwood - (307) 638-8535
3:00pm to 8:00pm - Leave Message - Will call you back

Scott Phillips - (307) 638-6178
6:00pm to 8:00pm - Leave Message - Will call you back

Wyoming Transportation Museum Foundation
Vickie Sherwood @ (307) 637-DEPO (3376)
10:00am to 3:00pm - Mon - Fri - Leave Message - Will call you back

Thank you for your time.


Robert Sherwood, President
Sherman Hill Model Railroad Club, Cheyenne, Wyoming

www.shermanhillmrrc.org shmrc@...





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18695 From: robbyking13 Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: S Scale Track Info:
Code Weight Use

55 40 lb. Sn3 (narrow gauge) yard and siding
70 65 lb. Sn3 (narrow gauge) mainline.
S (standard gauge) yard and siding.
83 85 lb. S (standard gauge) yard and siding.
100 110 lb. S (standard gauge) mainline, branchline,
and modern yard and siding.
125 155 lb. S (standard gauge) mainline on PRR from
1950s to the Penn Central merger.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18696 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/28/2002
Subject: Re: Test...can't post
John Hornick wrote:

>I tried 3 times on Sunday to post a message but it never showed up.


Same here, John. A message about the 495 coach that I posted Sunday
night was just posted this Thursday night. Yahoo's having conniptions.
Oy.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18697 From: joshseltzer Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: NASG National Convention
I guess we owe everyone out there some updated information. With
regard to tours and clinics there a lot of folks who have committed
and need to stay that way. This is an administrative chalange we are
dealing with. Our club had 2 of our layouts at the NMRA DIV 5
Railfest show March 15-17 so we had our resources tied up with that.
With our last major commitment before the convention out of the way
we can catch up on our communications. I am working on another
update for our website today so stay tuned.

Tour information and sign up forms are complete and we will start to
send them out on this weekend.

Clinics are not totaly finalized but here is a list of what we have
so far:
Thursday 7-8:30 PM
Gil Hulin and Jerry Porter Assembling the new NASG
factory/warehouse kit.
Ken Vendlinger AF repair and restoration clinic
Friday: 6:30 to 8:00Pm
Terry Harrison Operating model layouts on a schedule.
Josh Seltzer Making and detailing industrial buildings.

8:00 to 9:30PM
Roy Hoffman Guided tour of S gauge for nowcomers. Within
the display hall.
Richard Karnes The new Russ Mobley memorial library for S
Gaugers.

Saturday 9:00 to 10:30AM
Terry Harrison Operating train layouts on a schedule.
Bill Fraley Perma-Bilt kit building and detailing.
Part two from last year.

10:30 to Noon
Richard Karnes Presenting the Russ Mobley memorial library.

A few more are in the works. Note that the time of each clinic is
subject to change. Clinics will start Thursday evening and continue
on Friday afternoon and Saturday am.


Josh Seltzer
Group: S-Trains Message: 18698 From: bassflyer Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: Pikemaster Truck Replacement
--- In S-Trains@y..., "Jim Armstrong" wrote:
**((( Can Pikemaster trucks be replaced by just prying apart the two
plastic structures that touch (and surround) the truck-fastening
rivet. I've sort of tried to remove a broken truck this way, but it
looks like too much force is required. Or, is the alternative to
simply(?) use a new rivet with a replacement truck?)))***

I just removed two broken Pikemaster trucks today, off of an old
time box car, that has been repainted to a ugly silver! Yuck!! Rivet
can be drilled out,..I used, forgive me but I don't know the exact
name of the little $11.00 dremel bit, kind of a little router,...good
on aluminum (sP?), stainless steel, ceramics, plastic. I bought it to
enlarge some holes in stainless steel for a project of my Mom's.
Hated to spend eleven bucks on this bit, but figured I could use
it somewhere,...well, sure enough, I used it twice today,..on the
Pikemaster trucks, and to shave down some plastic frame work and
coupler box on the On30 caboose that I am working on.
For those without a rivet tool, (like me!),...I am going to
repaint the old time boxcar and put SHS trucks on it,..and will use
washers and a litle machine screw and nut.
My #651 Baggage car has this set up on one end,...not sure
why,..assuming my Dad was the one to convert this end to a knuckle
coupler,..he could have made the switch by just taking the shell off
to make the work easier,..maybe he felt it was better to take the
whole truck off!! Go figure!

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18699 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: boy on bike
Marx has one in rubber. Jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18700 From: robbyking13 Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: S Scale Track Info:
Code Weight Use

55 40 lb. Sn3 (narrow gauge) yard and siding.
70 65 lb. Sn3 (narrow gauge) mainline.
S (standard gauge) yard and siding.
83 85 lb. S (standard gauge) yard and siding.
100 110 lb. S (standard gauge) mainline, branchline,
and modern yard and siding.
125 155 lb. S (standard gauge) mainline of PRR from
1950 to the Penn Central merger.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18701 From: hornickw Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Help Resurrecting Rubber Roadbed [2d try today]
I just pulled a box of rubber roadbed out of climate-controlled
basement storage where it has been for at least 22 years. When I
tried to separate the roadbed from the track, it tore, cracked and
broke in several places. I soaked it in hot water to no avail. I
remember reading the tip about using Armor-All but an emulsion of
water and silicone is not exactly what I am looking for. I am not
trying to improve the appearance of the original rubber, only the
flexibility. It seems as if the plasticizer has evaporated from the
rubber compound. Is there an elastomer chemist in the group or a
magician who has learned the secret to rejuvenating this rubber... a
solvent perhaps...some way to replace the plasticizer??? Help!!!

John
Group: S-Trains Message: 18702 From: hornickw Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Trying to get through
Tried 3 times yesterday, twice this evening...no luck. Don't know
why. Anybody have any ideas?
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 18703 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: Test/Haven't been able to post
John wrote:

>I tried 3 times yesterday to post...no luck.


Yahoo seems to be losing things. Last night (3/24) I posted an answer
to a question about a prewar AF 495 coach. The post still hasn't
shown up as of 9:00 PM on 3/25. All of Yahoo's ads are working
though. Sheesh.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18704 From: robbyking13 Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: S Scale Track Info:
Code Weight Use

55 40 lb. Sn3 (narrow gauge) yard and siding.
70 65 lb. Sn3 (narrow gauge) mainline.
S (standard gauge) yard and siding.
83 85 lb. S (standard gauge) yard and siding.
100 110 lb. S (standard gauge) mainline, branchline,
and modern yard and siding.
125 155 lb. S (standard gauge) mainline on PRR from
1950s to the Penn Central merger.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18705 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: transformers and switches
--- Tim Brown <Timboy@...> wrote:
> But why would you want to? Unless the trains are perfectly matched,
one will catch up to the other.

Haven't you ever run two trains on one track controlled by semaphores?
You can double the number of trains you have running on a layout at the
same time.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18706 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Yahooed!! :(
Thanks Tom. I just checked my account info and it also had been changed. Even had
changed things like telephone and mail offers. Guess I'll have to check occasionally
to see if they change it back.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


TCS wrote:

> > I've just been alerted by a friend that Yahoo have just made a sneaky
> > change to everybody's 'Marketing Preferences', the result of which
> will
> > be a load of spam. So, I've just been in and changed back what they've
> > done so that I won't be receiving their ads! They had changed ALL of
> my
> > *No's* to *Yes!*
> >
> > Here's what you need to do:
> >
> > Go to My Groups and click on Account Info, verify your password if it
> > asks you to, and your Yahoo ID card comes up. Click on 'Edit your
> > Marketing Preferences' and change all those Yes's back to No's! Click
> > Save Changes
> >
> > ---
> >
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18707 From: dadaw56 Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Chat - Success!
Greetings,

Well, somehow I found my way to chat. Had a pleasant chat with a
fellow from Hanover, PA.

Hope to get in on Saturday and see who might be there.

Boy, is it addicting.

Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 18708 From: Horn, David Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: reversing handcar
Scott didn't have to trust anything. It was your Northern and my handcar!
No wonder he was having the most fun!

PS The Northern wouldn't have likely activated the reverse due to the rod's
location. I'll take a closer look at home. Besides, the collision alone
would have likely lauched the handcar off the tracks before it could have
started heading away. Let's try it next time - - with Scott's engine and
handcar!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18709 From: bassflyer Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: Chat and my coupler post.....
Just a reminder to Bill,....most of us will be in chat Sunday
evening (5pm Pacific time),...it is Easter,..unless chat been moved
that I am not aware of?

....and my Sunday post on coupler replacement finally showed up!!
better late then never I guess!! And I want to add,...if using a
machine screw, be sure to use a locking type of nut,...I used the
little dome type with the plastic in the middle,..I took apart my
#651 Baggage car to see what my dad had used,..and he used one of
those and has been tight since '62!!

Rick (Hope this shows by next week!) Evans.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18710 From: bassflyer Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: Chat and my coupler post.....
My mistake,....I mentioned "coupler",...I meant to say "truck
replacement"!! Doubt my method would work on replacing couplers!!

Rick (Gotta start on my Easter Train) Evans.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18711 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Sunday chat
Hi all, is the Sunday chat still on or are we changing it to Saturday
because of Easter? Forgive me if this questions has already
answered, I've been behind on reading the posts.

Fred
Group: S-Trains Message: 18712 From: royhoffman Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: Test/Haven't been able to post
Here's one for you!
I posted a message to another group on Monday and after rattling
around cyberspace all week, it was received today.

YAAAAHOOOOey!

--- In S-Trains@y..., "jahoozdumm" <eighthmile@m...> wrote:
> John wrote:
>
> >I tried 3 times yesterday to post...no luck.
>
>
> Yahoo seems to be losing things. Last night (3/24) I posted an
answer
> to a question about a prewar AF 495 coach. The post still hasn't
> shown up as of 9:00 PM on 3/25. All of Yahoo's ads are working
> though. Sheesh.
>
>
> Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18713 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: transformers and switches
Hi Scott,

Yes I have. I went on to tell him about it in a subsequent note.

Aren't semaphores fun!

Thanks,
Tim

Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Holm
To: s-trains
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: transformers and switches


--- Tim Brown <Timboy@...> wrote:
> But why would you want to? Unless the trains are perfectly matched,
one will catch up to the other.

Haven't you ever run two trains on one track controlled by semaphores?
You can double the number of trains you have running on a layout at the
same time.


__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18714 From: nyc17819@aol.com Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Rail codes, weights, etc.
I looked up rail weights and heights in several rail catalogs (for full size
rail) and came up with the following table.

It has the weights in pounds per yard of rail length, and the other
dimensions are in inches. The S Scale dimension is 1/64 of the real height,
and corresponds to the "code" of rail so that rail that is 0.100" high is
code 100 rail, rail 0.109" high would be code 109 etc.

Head Base S Scale
Name Weight Width Height Width Height
ASCE 12 1 2 2 0.031
ASCE 16 1 11/64 2 3/8 2 3/8 0.037
ASCE 20 1 11/32 2 5/8 2 5/8 0.041
ASCE 25 1 1/2 2 3/4 2 3/4 0.043
ASCE 30 1 11/16 3 1/8 3 1/8 0.049
ASCE 35 1 3/4 3 5/16 3 5/16 0.052
ASCE 40 1 7/8 3 1/2 3 1/2 0.055
ASCE 45 2 3 11/16 3 11/16 0.058
ASCE 50 2 1/8 3 7/8 3 7/8 0.061
ASCE 55 2 1/4 4 1/16 4 1/16 0.063
ASCE 60 2 3/8 4 1/4 4 1/4 0.066
ASCE 65 2 13/32 4 7/16 4 7/16 0.069
ASCE 70 2 7/16 4 5/8 4 5/8 0.072
LV 80 2 1/2 4 3/4 5 0.074
ASCE 75 2 15/32 4 13/16 4 13/16 0.075
ARA-B 80 2 7/16 4 15/16 4 7/16 0.077
ASCE 80 2 1/2 5 5 0.078
LV 90 2 3/4 5 5 0.078
PRR 85 2 9/16 5 5 0.078
ARA-A 80 2 1/2 5 1/8 4 5/8 0.080
Dudley 80 2 21/32 5 1/8 5 0.080
PS 85 2 1/2 5 1/8 4 5/8 0.080
ASCE 85 2 9/16 5 3/16 5 3/16 0.081
DL&W 91 2 5/8 5 1/4 5 3/8 0.082
Dudley 85 2 11/15 5 1/4 5 0.082
ARA-B 90 2 9/16 5 17/64 4 49/64 0.082
ARA-A 85 2 1/2 5 3/8 4 7/8 0.084
ASCE 90 2 5/8 5 3/8 5 3/8 0.084
DL&W 101 2 3/4 5 7/16 5 3/8 0.085
Dudley 90 2 21/32 5 1/2 5 0.086
PRR 100 2 13/16 5 1/2 5 1/2 0.086
ARA-A 90 2 9/16 5 5/8 5 1/8 0.088
RDG 100 2 21/32 5 5/8 5 3/8 0.088
ARA-B 100 2 11/32 5 41/64 5 9/64 0.088
P.S. 100 2 43/64 5 11/16 5 0.089
ASCE 100 2 3/4 5 3/4 5 3/4 0.090
A.R.E.A. 100 2 11/16 6 5 3/8 0.094
ARA-A 100 2 3/4 6 5 1/2 0.094
DL&W 105 2 3/4 6 5 3/8 0.094
Dudley 100 3 6 5 1/2 0.094
Dudley 105 3 6 5 1/2 0.094
LV 110 2 7/8 6 5 1/2 0.094
NYNH&H 100 2 3/4 6 5 1/2 0.094
NYNH&H 107 2 3/4 6 1/8 5 1/2 0.096
A.R.E.A. 110 2 25/32 6 1/4 5 1/2 0.098
CNJ 135 3 5/32 6 1/2 6 0.102
DL&W-M 118 2 7/8 6 1/2 5 3/8 0.102
Dudley 115 3 6 1/2 5 1/2 0.102
PRR 125 3 6 1/2 5 1/8 0.102
A.R.E.A. 112 2 23/32 6 5/8 5 1/2 0.104
A.R.E.A. 115 2 23/32 6 5/8 5 1/2 0.104
P.S. 130 3 6 5/8 5 1/2 0.104
A.R.E.A. 130 2 15/16 6 3/4 6 0.105
CF&I 119 2 21/32 6 13/16 5 1/2 0.106
HF 130 2 55/64 6 27/32 6 0.107
B,C&O 122 2 15/16 6 7/8 6 0.107
HF-B 130 2 27/32 6 15/16 6 0.108
Dudley 127 3 7 6 1/4 0.109
LV 136 2 15/16 7 6 1/2 0.109
LV-M 136 2 15/16 7 6 1/2 0.109
Dudley-
Modified 127 3 7 6 1/4 0.109
A.R.E.A. 133 3 7 1/16 6 0.110
A.R.E.A. 131 3 7 1/8 6 0.111
A.R.E.A. 132 3 7 1/8 6 0.111
Dudley 136 2 15/16 7 9/32 6 1/4 0.114
A.R.E.A. 140 3 7 5/16 6 0.114
LV-H 136 2 15/16 7 3/8 6 1/2 0.115
P.S. 152 3 8 6 3/4 0.125
P.S. 155 3 8 6 3/4 0.125

The weights are sorted by rail heights. As you can see, the 152 P.S. and 155
P.S. are the highest listed and are the highest I know of in use on
railroads. The weights below 50 pounds are generally used for mines. The
lightest is getting down to the amusement park train size.

Most mainlines are being relaid with rail in the 130 pound or heavier range,
with 140 pound being about the heaviest. 152 and 155 have not been rolled
for many years and do not have the metallurgical properties in demand today.
Even industry sidings are generally laid with rail of 100 pounds or heavier.

However, as many will realize upon looking at many tracks still in service,
shortlines and little used tracks often have lighter rail than those
mentioned. Modelling in an earlier period also gives cause for using lighter
rail.

Chris Harding
Group: S-Trains Message: 18715 From: richgajnak Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: Test...can't post
Chuck F. wrote:
>John Hornick wrote:
>
>>I tried 3 times on Sunday to post a message but it never showed up.
>
>
>Same here, John. A message about the 495 coach that I posted Sunday
>night was just posted this Thursday night. Yahoo's having
>conniptions.
>Oy.

Don't feel too bad...I havn't been able to post from my email account
since January. I have to log in to Yahoo to post a message. What a
pain in the patootie.

Did everything the Yahoo (no)help page suggested. Finally managed to
email Yahoo for some guidance, and they sent me a copy of the (no)
help web page. Emailed them again, and haven't heard from them
since...

Needles to say, I believe they're living up to their name...

Rich G.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18716 From: TCS Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Fw: [drgw] Re: Fw: Yahooed!! :(
Sorry about the postings everyone, but everybody should really see what
Yahoo is doing to everybody.

TCS



> For more information on Yahoo's latest "improvement" see
> http://www.computerworld.com/storyba/0,4125,NAV47_STO69687,00.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 18717 From: Scott Holm Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: Test...can't post
Yahoo has the worst help system I've ever seen. They have an automated
responder that picks out certain words in your e-mail and sends you
replies that say to go to the help page that matches the words that it
found. The whole point of e-mailing them was because their help page
was no help and they respond to you by sending you back to the same
help page. There are no real people to have any kind of meaningful
dialog with.

--- richgajnak <rgajnak@...> wrote:
>
> Don't feel too bad...I havn't been able to post from my email account
>
> since January. I have to log in to Yahoo to post a message. What a
> pain in the patootie.
>
> Did everything the Yahoo (no)help page suggested. Finally managed to
>
> email Yahoo for some guidance, and they sent me a copy of the (no)
> help web page. Emailed them again, and haven't heard from them
> since...
>
> Needles to say, I believe they're living up to their name...
>
> Rich G.
>
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18718 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Transformers
Hi Guys,

Here's my take on the difference between some popular Flyer transformers: 8b, 12b and 30b:

Let's do some ciphering.
I=P/E; where I=intensity (amps), P=power (watts), and E=energy (volts).
8b: I=100/15; I=6.67 amps.
12b: I=250/15; I=16.67 amps.
30b: I=300/18; I=16.67 amps.

Cost per amp:
8b: $25.00/6.67=$3.75/amp
12b: $75.00/16/67=$4.50/amp
30b: $175.00/16/67=$10.50/amp


My conclusion:
The 8b would be fine for smaller layouts running one train per block.
For heavier-duty operating, both the 12b and 30b will deliver the same amount of power to the locos from 0 through 15 volts - the 12b at a much more economical cost.
However, if you need the extra volts for accessories, running locos at the top end speed, and/or the deadman controls, then the 30b is the one.

Does anyone disagree?

I don't know what the other transformers cost on the secondary market. Someone knowledgeable could put together a spreadsheet using the above formulae. The results could be interesting.

Cost of an American Flyer train set: $350.
Cost of a 12b transformer: $75.
Thrill of being 12 years old again: priceless.

Regards,
Tim

Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18719 From: erielackawanna76 Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: New Website
Hi everyone:

I'd like to encourage everyone to visit my new website. It's at:

http://www.geocities.com/erielackawanna76/ErieSignalCompany.html

John
Group: S-Trains Message: 18720 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: Follow Up Re: Vintage AF Code Minimum
In a message dated 3/25/02 1:37:05 PM, velapoldi@... writes:

<< In addition, I think I have read that some of the later AF had "deeper"
flanges and
would not quite run on code 100 track, and that code 125 was a better bet if
one
wanted to be sure that all of the AF would be able to run. Not super sure on
this
fact, but it does stick in my mind (thus my choice of code 125 to run both
scale and
hi-rail). >>

Some AF steam engines have bigger flanges. Many five digit Hudsons and
Northerns with the aluminum flange drive wheels are cases in point. Also,
Flyonel production diesels have enlarged flanges that do interfere with the
"spikes" of early issue SHS track.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 18721 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, March 31, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains
Group: S-Trains Message: 18724 From: Knight, Gene Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: 774 Floodlight Tower
Did Gilbert make a 774 in HO Scale?

Thanks!

Gene
Group: S-Trains Message: 18725 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: Re: Transformers
"Tim Brown" wrote:

>I=P/E; where I=intensity (amps), P=power (watts), and E=energy
(volts).

Um, well now, here's where I get nit-picky. (Sorry, Tim.)

Nit #1. There's a problem with the nomenclature above: When dealing
with Ohm's Law, "E" does not stand for "energy." "E" is short
for "EMF" which stands for "electromotive force." Energy is a
different parameter measured in joules. It is the mathematical
product of power and time, and is sometimes defined as "total work
done."


>unit for measuring 8b: I=100/15; I=6.67 amps.
>12b: I=250/15; I=16.67 amps.
>30b: I=300/18; I=16.67 amps.

Nit #2. Concerning the comparison above, why would a load demanding
16.67 amps at 15V connected to a 12b suddenly need 18v for the same
current consumption when connected to a 30b? It wouldn't. Such a load
would demand the same current at 15v from the 30b. Since the 30b can
(theoretically) put out 300 watts, it could supply 20 amps at 15v,
using the same logic as your example, so the number's don't crunch as
shown. In any real situation, the extra expense of the 30b (besides
the more elaborate throttle) is justified by its ability to supply
more POWER, to MAINTAIN a given voltage at a current load that would
drag down the output of the 12b.


>Cost per amp:

Nit #3. The real issue with any power source isn't "cost per amp" but
cost per watt. Power (work done per unit time) is the issue, not
current intensity by itself. That is why power supply comparisons are
done in watts. Current intensity is determined by the LOAD, and the
power supply's ability to maintain a given voltage under that load
(it's maximum output power). Maximum output power is what makes a
30b "beefier" than a 12b.

Maybe a 12b would still be cheaper on a cost-per-watt basis, but not
by as much as indicated in the "cost per amp" comparison given above.
Besides, some operators may need the extra power margin that the
30b's additional 50 watts would provide.

Now, let's see how long it takes Yahoo to post THIS...


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18726 From: Gary Chidester Date: 3/29/2002
Subject: First Flyer Fix!
I know this is old hat for many, but I had to tell it to somebody! I tore
apart a 302 that ran strong, but didn't smoke. The nichrome wire had broken
and I was able to rewire and make the fix. Smokes like a champ! Small
thing to do, but a big step for a first timer. I'm hooked. It was fun, but
with my local fix it guy going out of business I'm sure I will try to tackle
many more in the future.

gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 18727 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Re: Transformers
Hi Guys,

Let's try this instead:

Here's my take on the difference between some popular Flyer transformers: 8b, 12b and 30b:

Let's do some ciphering at a constant 15 volt output.
I=P/E; where I=intensity (amps), P=power (watts), and E=electromotive force (volts).
8b: I=100/15; I=6.67 amps.
12b: I=250/15; I=16.67 amps.
30b: I=300/15; I=20.0 amps.

Cost per watt:
8b: $25.00/100 =$.25/watt
12b: $75.00/250=$.30/watt
30b: $175.00/300=$.58/watt


My conclusion:
The 8b would be fine for smaller layouts running one train per block.
For heavier-duty operating, both the 12b and 30b will deliver the same amount of power to the locos from 0 through 15 volts - the 12b at a much more economical cost.
However, if you need the extra volts for accessories, running locos at the top end speed, and/or the deadman controls, then the 30b is the one.

Does anyone disagree with this version?

I don't know what the other transformers cost on the secondary market. Someone knowledgeable could put together a spreadsheet using the above formulae. The results could be interesting.

Cost of an American Flyer train set: $350.
Cost of a 12b transformer: $75.
Thrill of being 12 years old again: priceless.

Regards,
Tim

Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html

----- Original Message -----
From: jahoozdumm
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 1:09 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Transformers


"Tim Brown" wrote:

>I=P/E; where I=intensity (amps), P=power (watts), and E=energy
(volts).

Um, well now, here's where I get nit-picky. (Sorry, Tim.)

Nit #1. There's a problem with the nomenclature above: When dealing
with Ohm's Law, "E" does not stand for "energy." "E" is short
for "EMF" which stands for "electromotive force." Energy is a
different parameter measured in joules. It is the mathematical
product of power and time, and is sometimes defined as "total work
done."


>unit for measuring 8b: I=100/15; I=6.67 amps.
>12b: I=250/15; I=16.67 amps.
>30b: I=300/18; I=16.67 amps.

Nit #2. Concerning the comparison above, why would a load demanding
16.67 amps at 15V connected to a 12b suddenly need 18v for the same
current consumption when connected to a 30b? It wouldn't. Such a load
would demand the same current at 15v from the 30b. Since the 30b can
(theoretically) put out 300 watts, it could supply 20 amps at 15v,
using the same logic as your example, so the number's don't crunch as
shown. In any real situation, the extra expense of the 30b (besides
the more elaborate throttle) is justified by its ability to supply
more POWER, to MAINTAIN a given voltage at a current load that would
drag down the output of the 12b.


>Cost per amp:

Nit #3. The real issue with any power source isn't "cost per amp" but
cost per watt. Power (work done per unit time) is the issue, not
current intensity by itself. That is why power supply comparisons are
done in watts. Current intensity is determined by the LOAD, and the
power supply's ability to maintain a given voltage under that load
(it's maximum output power). Maximum output power is what makes a
30b "beefier" than a 12b.

Maybe a 12b would still be cheaper on a cost-per-watt basis, but not
by as much as indicated in the "cost per amp" comparison given above.
Besides, some operators may need the extra power margin that the
30b's additional 50 watts would provide.

Now, let's see how long it takes Yahoo to post THIS...


Chuck F.


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18728 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Vintage AF Code Minimum question
Giving the info on prototype track needs to be clarified.
What does code 125 track measure in real inches etc.
I have all kinds of track and need to identify what code
they are.
For instance does; Code 125 measure 1/8" high.
how high is code 155 ?
How high is HO code 125 if used for "S"scale ?
I assume code 125 is thinner than "S" code 125.

I realize the codes refer lbs. per 3' of track.
I noticed high rails in North Western VT.
What code are those rails I wonder?

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 18729 From: Roger Hinds Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: OPPS - Rail codes, weights, etc.
After I posted my question's on rail height I noticed
(after checking my other E-mail)
Chris Harding posted info. answering most of my questions.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 18730 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Re: Vintage AF Code Minimum question
You're still confusing the difference between code and weight.
Code is the height in thousandths of an inch. Code 125 = .125" tall
Weight is the prototype rail that code represents in a given scale. For
example, 155# rail in S happens to be code 125 but 155# is between code
83-100 range in HO.
Flyer rail is about code 220 which is ridiculously heavy (and tall) in
S.

Roger Hinds wrote:
>
> Giving the info on prototype track needs to be clarified.
> What does code 125 track measure in real inches etc.
> I have all kinds of track and need to identify what code
> they are.
> For instance does; Code 125 measure 1/8" high.
> how high is code 155 ?
> How high is HO code 125 if used for "S"scale ?
> I assume code 125 is thinner than "S" code 125.
>
> I realize the codes refer lbs. per 3' of track.
> I noticed high rails in North Western VT.
> What code are those rails I wonder?
>
> Roger
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18731 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: transformers
It is my understanding that the factory wattage ratings of toy train
transformers, both Gilbert and Lionel, were always arbitrary and
capricious. I don't believe you can base serious calculations upon them.

It WOULD be interesting to submit the entire range of Gilbert transformers
to some serious testing. I have always thought that the 18B was a little
more powerful, and the 30B a little less powerful, relatively speaking,
than their ratings would indicate. THis is just a hunch.

The idea is not to develop a formula, but to find what you like best.and
what works best for you both electrically and in terms of 'look' and feel.
Just like a musician, you develop your own style. Electric trains can be
enjoyed in a tremendous variety of different ways. One fellow might have
100 switches, and the next might not like switches at all and have none!

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18732 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Re: transformers
Hi Tom& All,
One way to determine the wattage is to check the sec.
windings Ga. Check that and find the allowable amperage X the max voltage put
out. The transformer (The windings in this case) may have been a read made
type that Gilbert bought "OF the shelf" & installer in the cases. There may
be a different size of the SEC winding. It would be interesting to find out.
This is a ballpark type thing, as most are rated a bit lower than true.(Or
higher) The only other way would be to hook up an ammeter and something to
draw current until the breaker trips. This times the Voltage would give you
the wattage, but that is until the breaker trips. What is the rating on the
breaker& is there only one for each handle? Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18733 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Re: transformers
Hi,

I believe that everything in this world can be distilled down to numbers and compared/analyzed. How much weight one puts in those numbers and whether they are the sole criteria is up to the individual. If the wattages on the transformers Gilbert made are labeled arbitrarily, then the resulting calculations probably should only be used as a 'ballpark' and not taken in the most literal sense. I personally wouldn't live or die by any published spec on any piece of equipment. Yet, I accept them for what they are worth and go forward.

I believe you've made a very valid point in your last paragraph. The most important thing is what you like and what works best for you. I'm happiest I didn't overpay for what I bought, it works well and I like it. I use my own experience and the published price lists as a general guide to determine if I got a good deal. I use specs, observation and intuition to tell me if the piece is operating well. As for how well I like something, I can't put the why's into words. I either just do or don't.

I guess my point is, I like to use as many tools as I can in the process of appreciating my toys. Numbers, specs and test results are some of the tools. They aren't the only ones and may not be totally reliable, but it's all part of the fun.

Thanks,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: jarcho@...
To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 12:27 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] transformers


It is my understanding that the factory wattage ratings of toy train
transformers, both Gilbert and Lionel, were always arbitrary and
capricious. I don't believe you can base serious calculations upon them.

It WOULD be interesting to submit the entire range of Gilbert transformers
to some serious testing. I have always thought that the 18B was a little
more powerful, and the 30B a little less powerful, relatively speaking,
than their ratings would indicate. This is just a hunch.

The idea is not to develop a formula, but to find what you like best.and
what works best for you both electrically and in terms of 'look' and feel.
Just like a musician, you develop your own style. Electric trains can be
enjoyed in a tremendous variety of different ways. One fellow might have
100 switches, and the next might not like switches at all and have none!

Tom Jarcho



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18734 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Saturday Chat Confusion
Folks,

Sorry for the confusion. I'M checking into chat today, but regular chat
is not being moved. I'm just so EXCITED that I was finally able to enter
Chat. And actually CHAT with someone!!! I'm heading there now (if I can
get in) and chat with anyone that might be there.

Thanks for all the help!

Bill
@4:36 pm Saturday

________________________________________________________________
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Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18735 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Re: First Flyer Fix!
! I tore
> apart a 302 that ran strong, but didn't smoke. The
> nichrome wire had broken
> and I was able to rewire and make the fix. Smokes
> like a champ!
Good for you, Gary!!!! The thrill of doing your own
work only gets better over time(as does the urge to
heave the ##@#$%%%^^&&**** into the wall)- you're on
your way to even more enjoyment than you ever had-j.
marganski

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18736 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: "How to" Video
This is a follow up to our posting of March 6th. As of today (3/30/02) there
have only been 16 interested parties and that isn't nearly enough to tackle
this project. So, in case any of you missed it the first time around, here it
is again. ....LAST CALL

Hi everybody,

I have had several requests via email and snail mail to produce a "How To"
video for repairing American Flyer Locos. I need input from all of you as to
the feasibility of doing so. Also if you do show a positive bent please tell
me what you would like to see most. If I can get 50 people to say they would
like such a video I will most probably do it. I'm not sending this to the
Scale side of S-Trains because why would they be interested? There are no
taboo subjects, so let's hear from you as to what you would like to see if
anything.

Regards.....Steve & Sam.....S-'n-S Trains....Boise, Idaho


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18737 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Re: Rubber Roadbed
>This will not happen to the roadbed now made by Johnson
>as it is made of vinyl & is not affected by age, sunlight or oils &
solvents

I don't think it is vinyl. It has all the uncover-upable smell of real
rubber.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18738 From: Knight, Gene Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: 774 Floodlight Tower
Did Gilbert make a 774 in HO Scale?



Thanks!



Gene


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Group: S-Trains Message: 18739 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: What I sent to the seller
You said: "Red car in Ex-mint condition."

Then you displayed a picture of a car in poor condition.

Is "Ex-mint" short for "Excellent-Mint" or is it more like "Ex-Wife",
something that was good once, but now, not so much?

Mint means new and unused, in the same condition as it was when delivered
from the factory, accompanied by all original packing material. Excellent
isn't quite so severe, but still does not allow for any scratches.

You also said: "Paint has never been repainted." Here's an idea. Scrape
off the old paint and repaint it. It will be worth more.

You're getting this from an American Flyer fan, and this car was a part of
an American Flyer freight car, the auto-unloader. In this condition, $10
would be a lot.

Chris Zizzo
The Flyer Buyer
--------------------


Question from: busy-boy
Title of item: 1940's Manoil # no.707 roadster WOW LOOK!
Seller: mr.scsi
Starts: Mar-26-02 13:44:21 PST
Ends: Apr-02-02 13:44:21 PST
Price: Currently $6.50
To view the item, go to:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1717113076



Visit eBay, The World's Online Marketplace TM at http://www.ebay.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 18740 From: david_s_garber Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: manoil 707 roadster
Criss, Ex-as used in Ex-president = has been president, therefore
Ex-mint = has been mint and the roadster was at one time. That's not
saying much about it's currant condition. By the way if Ex = has
been and a spurt is a drip under pressure and expert is a hasbeen
under pressure. That's enough corn for today
Group: S-Trains Message: 18741 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Re: manoil 707 roadster/ADDED CORN
Isn't expert when breasts sag. Mike S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18742 From: ron inscho Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Re: What I sent to the seller
On top of all that it is not a roadster but is a coupe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
To: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 7:00 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] What I sent to the seller


>
> You said: "Red car in Ex-mint condition."
>
> Then you displayed a picture of a car in poor condition.
>
> Is "Ex-mint" short for "Excellent-Mint" or is it more like "Ex-Wife",
> something that was good once, but now, not so much?
>
> Mint means new and unused, in the same condition as it was when delivered
> from the factory, accompanied by all original packing material. Excellent
> isn't quite so severe, but still does not allow for any scratches.
>
> You also said: "Paint has never been repainted." Here's an idea. Scrape
> off the old paint and repaint it. It will be worth more.
>
> You're getting this from an American Flyer fan, and this car was a part of
> an American Flyer freight car, the auto-unloader. In this condition, $10
> would be a lot.
>
> Chris Zizzo
> The Flyer Buyer
> --------------------
>
>
> Question from: busy-boy
> Title of item: 1940's Manoil # no.707 roadster WOW LOOK!
> Seller: mr.scsi
> Starts: Mar-26-02 13:44:21 PST
> Ends: Apr-02-02 13:44:21 PST
> Price: Currently $6.50
> To view the item, go to:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1717113076
>
>
>
> Visit eBay, The World's Online Marketplace TM at http://www.ebay.com
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18743 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Here's what the seller wrote back
The seller, NGrigg10@... , replies:

thankyou mr expert, next time i want your opinion i'll ask! i found this
and
im selling it, obviosuly you dont want this, why are you wasting your and my
time complaining about my "wrongful" "unknowingly" description.

if you "read" my listing it states "I'm not a car grading expert, but look
at
picture for grade. Paint has never been repainted, has minor rust across the
axels." what? what? oh it states im not a car grading expert! "look at the
picture for grade"

so next time u feel like being a know it all, dont bother wasting my time
foo!!!!

why am i wasting my time writing you back? cuz im sick of ebay losers who
have no life and are critiquing everybody elses listing when they dont even
fully read the description. did i harp on the "exmint" and say thats it? NO
i dindt did I? do you see ANY other cars in my past selling listings? wait,
u dont DO you? So, stop wasting my freaking time!

aiight?

____________________________________________________________

Now, I think that this is a damn sight funnier than this idiot's original
auction page.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18744 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Re: What I sent to the seller
Ron Inscho:
Mail I sent you is being returned to me as undeliverable. Are you having a
server problem?
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18745 From: roy inman Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: resubscribe
Paul Yorke:
Can you resubscribe me to the S Trains list?
Roy Inman
Group: S-Trains Message: 18746 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: Re: transformers
Tom Jarcho wrote:

>It is my understanding that the factory wattage ratings of toy train
>transformers, both Gilbert and Lionel, were always arbitrary and
>capricious.

Mmmm... I don't know. How arbitrary and
capricious can you be and still earn a UL listing? Of course, the
wattage ratings are meant primarily as a means of comparison against
other toy train transformers.


>I don't believe you can base serious calculations upon them.

You can get a good ballpark figure if you apply Gilbert's "75% of
maximum" stipulation to your figuring. Also remember that the power
rating probably applied more to the most power that the device could
absorb from the wall outlet, not its output.


>It WOULD be interesting to submit the entire range of Gilbert
>transformers to some serious testing.

I wonder what Underwriters Labs testing entailed at the time. Anybody
know if their records go back that far?


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18747 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/30/2002
Subject: transformers
The UL rating was probably earned by a safety test. The safety of a
transformer depends mostly on its insulating quality -- how a high a jolt
it takes to jump the barrier between primary and secondary. Size or
precision of measurement has nothing to do with it.

I think that part of the problem may have been that there was no way to
measure a transformer's exact performance, because its characteristics vary
so widely under load and with temperature. What would a typical load be?
Hard to say. A transformer's wattage would be different after it had been
running for 5, 10, or 15 minutes, because the transformer would warm up
during that time.

Sometimes, it's an art, not a science.

Tom Jarcho

"We artists. We ain't cost efficient." Hawk
Group: S-Trains Message: 18748 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: Here's what the seller wrote back
Hi,

That is hilarious! Right out of Seinfeld. No coupe for you.

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Zizzo
To: slist
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 12:14 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Here's what the seller wrote back


The seller, NGrigg10@... , replies:

thankyou mr expert, next time i want your opinion i'll ask! i found this
and
im selling it, obviosuly you dont want this, why are you wasting your and my
time complaining about my "wrongful" "unknowingly" description.

if you "read" my listing it states "I'm not a car grading expert, but look
at
picture for grade. Paint has never been repainted, has minor rust across the
axels." what? what? oh it states im not a car grading expert! "look at the
picture for grade"

so next time u feel like being a know it all, dont bother wasting my time
foo!!!!

why am i wasting my time writing you back? cuz im sick of ebay losers who
have no life and are critiquing everybody elses listing when they dont even
fully read the description. did i harp on the "exmint" and say thats it? NO
i dindt did I? do you see ANY other cars in my past selling listings? wait,
u dont DO you? So, stop wasting my freaking time!

aiight?

____________________________________________________________

Now, I think that this is a damn sight funnier than this idiot's original
auction page.

Chris Zizzo



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18749 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: transformers
Hi,

I'm curious. Where did the Gilbert's "75% of
maximum" you sited come from. Can you verify your source?

Thanks,
Tim

Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html

----- Original Message -----
From: jahoozdumm
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 1:52 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: transformers


Tom Jarcho wrote:

>It is my understanding that the factory wattage ratings of toy train
>transformers, both Gilbert and Lionel, were always arbitrary and
>capricious.

Mmmm... I don't know. How arbitrary and
capricious can you be and still earn a UL listing? Of course, the
wattage ratings are meant primarily as a means of comparison against
other toy train transformers.


>I don't believe you can base serious calculations upon them.

You can get a good ballpark figure if you apply Gilbert's "75% of
maximum" stipulation to your figuring. Also remember that the power
rating probably applied more to the most power that the device could
absorb from the wall outlet, not its output.


>It WOULD be interesting to submit the entire range of Gilbert
>transformers to some serious testing.

I wonder what Underwriters Labs testing entailed at the time. Anybody
know if their records go back that far?


Chuck F.



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18750 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Can motor
Hi,

I think I was the very first one to list a can motor for auction on eBay a couple weeks ago. I like going to yard sales to see how fast new technology works its way through American households and into the secondary market. Here's what I think is the second one to be listed:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1717062962

Regards,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18751 From: bassflyer Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: To the chat group........
Happy Easter to all!!

I won't be at chat,....going to relatives!! Oh well,...whatta ya do..

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18752 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Ebay seller bashing, enough already!
I rarely post to this board although I read it every day. I agree
that the manoil coupe in the ebay auction is not even close to mint.
Although manoil vehicles were notorious for having lousy paint jobs,
(Read Don Abrams post on this subject in Dec. 2000) this one is in
rough shape. That being said, I think it is uncalled for and
childish to send an inflammatory email to the seller. Not everyone
in this world is a so called "expert". The seller is right, some
people have too much time on their hands.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18753 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay seller bashing, enough already!
Hi,

I read the email. I thought it was appropriate.

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: kenwoodies1
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Ebay seller bashing, enough already!


I rarely post to this board although I read it every day. I agree
that the manoil coupe in the ebay auction is not even close to mint.
Although manoil vehicles were notorious for having lousy paint jobs,
(Read Don Abrams post on this subject in Dec. 2000) this one is in
rough shape. That being said, I think it is uncalled for and
childish to send an inflammatory email to the seller. Not everyone
in this world is a so called "expert". The seller is right, some
people have too much time on their hands.


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18754 From: Tom Pennington Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay seller bashing, enough already!
I looked at the item, read the mail, see nothing wrong in pointing out
fraudulent descriptions. One does not need to be an "expert" at grading
things to know that this item and the word "mint" do not exist in the same
universe. Honesty and clarity are important in dealings on eBay, and I do
not trust nor would I bid on an item so grossly misrepresented. My .02

Tom

At 12:15 PM 3/31/02 -0500, Tim Brown wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I read the email. I thought it was appropriate.
>
>Regards,
>Tim
> ----- Original Message -----

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

| May the road rise up to meet you May the wind be always at your
back |
| May the sun shine warm upon your face And the rains fall soft upon your
fields |
| And until we meet again May God hold you in the palm of his
hand. |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Group: S-Trains Message: 18755 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay seller bashing, enough already!
Hi again,

Come to think of it, Chris's note to the seller did have one positive effect: It got you up off your 'read only' butt and motivated you to contribute to the list. Bravo! Now that the ice is broken, I hope you will be a regular contributor.

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: kenwoodies1
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Ebay seller bashing, enough already!


I rarely post to this board although I read it every day. I agree
that the manoil coupe in the ebay auction is not even close to mint.
Although manoil vehicles were notorious for having lousy paint jobs,
(Read Don Abrams post on this subject in Dec. 2000) this one is in
rough shape. That being said, I think it is uncalled for and
childish to send an inflammatory email to the seller. Not everyone
in this world is a so called "expert". The seller is right, some
people have too much time on their hands.


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18756 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: TEST
TEST


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18757 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: transformers
I worked as an engineer for UL in the 60's & 70's, although not in the electrical
dept. My guess is they did not check the wattage, but looked at spacings,
insulation, strain relief of the power cord, heating of components relative to
thermal ratings, etc.
I'm sure the records are still available, but getting access to them is another
story.
Gene

jahoozdumm wrote:

> Tom Jarcho wrote:
>
> >It is my understanding that the factory wattage ratings of toy train
> >transformers, both Gilbert and Lionel, were always arbitrary and
> >capricious.
>
> Mmmm... I don't know. How arbitrary and
> capricious can you be and still earn a UL listing? Of course, the
> wattage ratings are meant primarily as a means of comparison against
> other toy train transformers.
>
> >I don't believe you can base serious calculations upon them.
>
> You can get a good ballpark figure if you apply Gilbert's "75% of
> maximum" stipulation to your figuring. Also remember that the power
> rating probably applied more to the most power that the device could
> absorb from the wall outlet, not its output.
>
> >It WOULD be interesting to submit the entire range of Gilbert
> >transformers to some serious testing.
>
> I wonder what Underwriters Labs testing entailed at the time. Anybody
> know if their records go back that far?
>
> Chuck F.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18758 From: David Dewey Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: manoil 707 roadster/ADDED CORN
Good Grief, where did I make that wrong turn and land in Iowa??

I knew I shoulda made a left turn at Albuquerque! -- Bugs Bunny

I thougt a little rabbit humor was needed on Easter! :-)
We're going to Grass Valley, might miss chat tomorrow.
S'
David "the punner" Dewey
Group: S-Trains Message: 18759 From: Robert E. Yablonski Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Transformers
I am a professional engineer with just a few years experience, 30+.

Transformers are not rated arbitrarily.

When one is designed, the output voltage is chosen, the rated wattage is
chosen, the allowable temperature rise of the windings is determined. Here
the choice of materials, insulation and UL safety issues enter the equation.
Once the temperature rise is determined, the core material and copper losses
are used to calculate the number of turns for the primary and secondary of
the transformer.

Simple things like the grade of the lamination can make a big difference in
how hot comparable transformers with the same windings will get.

To measure a transformer you do the simple thing.

Rated output wattage = Rated output voltage x rated output current.

If the rated wattage is 300 Watts and the output was rated at 18 Volts, the
transformer should be able to output 16.67 Amperes. To test the transformer
a resistive load is attached. R=V/I, thus R=18/16.66 = 1.08 ohms. This
resistor must be able to dissipate all 300 watts. To find this type of load
you would be looking inside a toaster or equivalent. Do not try to hook a 1
ohm resistor from Radio Shack up to your transformer you will be surprised
by a curl of smoke, maybe.

The circuit breaker used in Toy transformers is designed to trip at current
loads significantly below where the transformer would heat up and destroy
itself. If I were designing such a device I would set the trip point at for
a 300 watt transformer at 200 watts or so to be real conservative and not
allow ageing and other effects to cause the circuit breaker not to trip.

Small transformers are designed differently. They intentionally are made
with small wire that when you short the output, the wire resistance is high
enough that the transformer will limit the output current to keep the
internal temperature rise within safe limits. Wall Warts are designed this
way (those ugly black transformer that you plug into the wall and power your
lap top).

You want to be able to check the capability of your transformer vs. another.
Simply plug them in, measure the output with no load, then attach a 10 ohm
50 Watt resistor and measure the output voltage again. Make sure the 50
Watt resistor is mounted to a very large heatsink (large thick aluminum
plate). You will measure some output voltage less than 18 volts. If
transformer 1 outputs 17 volts and transformer 2 outputs 15 volts it is very
clear that transformer 1 is the better transformer. You could continue
putting more and more resistors in parallel and measuring the output
voltage. A plot of the output voltage verses current would then be
obtained. This plot is what professional call the V/I plot and is what
performance is judged.

Please be aware the construction of the wiper is of major concern in
transformer design and its condition can make significant differences
between transformers of the same model. After all it deteriorates with use
and can cause opens, or become a high loss resistor. This all means the
transformer should be evaluated at several output voltage settings. If you
are an avid train person, and want to run a lot of trains buy a large
transformer in good condition, and make real sure the wiper is clean and has
proper pressure.

Make friends with a local repair shop.

Sincerely,

Robert E. Yablonski

PS: Smoke from your transformer is not the same as from your Loco
Group: S-Trains Message: 18760 From: Victor Bereskin Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1397
Mouser Electronics (www.mouser.com)
Stock # 10TC270
$2.14 each
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:24:59 -0800
> From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
> Subject: Re: David D's pushbuttons
>
> Rhett,
> That's the type switch I have been looking for. Now that I know they
DO
> exist, I will continue searching! Thanks!
> S'
> David D.
> Hey Tom J, "Chips?? What chips, we don' neeed no stinkin' chips!"
> Actually, you made a good point that I hadn't considered.
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18761 From: Steve Blancard Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: 30B internal wiring - help!
I recently picked up a 30B that needs a little work. I have it apart
and found one wire that looks like it broke off from from a terminal
somehwere. Problem is I don't know where it goes.

It is the wire from the inner terminal of the left side voltmeter. It
is connected to the voltmeter but the other end is hanging out in
space. Looking at the other voltmeter, its inner terminal wire runs to
the back of the Base post terminal on the back of the transformer. Does
the lost wire go to the same place? The Base post is electrically
common to both sides of the transformer, so this seems right. I just
can't see even a stub where the wire might have been previously
attached.

So, where does it go ????

Thanks,
Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 18762 From: Rick Evans Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: My little Fall/Sring layout....
Well, Spring has finally sprung on my Fall layout! The trees are now green, and the gondolas are filled with candy and
plastic eggs, and the Easter Train rolls on! Fall buildings have been replaced with Plasticville, and the Marx power/telephone poles
have popped up.
The stars and cars of the movie, "American Graffiti", have shown up at the diner. (Made by Johnny Lightning,
just found them at Target)-- Hope to have some pics soon and will post at the S-Trains site.

Rick (Please pass me another egg) Evans.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18763 From: Paul Yorke Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Off Topic - Yahoo Chat
I looked thru the Yahoo help screens. One of the suggestions they made
was to make sure your Java VM software was 'up to date'
for PC users...
http://www.microsoft.com/java/vm/dl_vm40.htm
__________________________________________________
for Mac heads...
If you are having trouble loading the Yahoo! Chat rooms using Internet
Explorer versions 5.x with a Mac, or if you see a small box (100x100
pixels) in place of the chat room, it may be due to problems associated
with the Mac Java Virtual Machine (JVM).
Mac JVM has known issues interpreting the specified size of a chat room.
It may interpret "width=100%" to mean "width=100 pixels." As a result,
the chat room will load up as a small box on your screen.

The solution is to install version 2.2 or higher of the Mac OS Runtime
for Java (MRJ). You can find the free download at:

http://developer.apple.com/java/download.html
__________________________________________________
for WebTVers...
If you are behind a firewall or using WebTV or Windows 3.1, you won't be
able to use the Java version of Chat.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18764 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: transformers
Tim wrote:

>Where did the Gilbert's "75% of maximum" you sited come from.


"Gilbert American Flyer Instruction Book"
Copyright 1954
Part Nine: Power supply Safety First Transformers
Page 54, 1st paragraph:
"Never figure on drawing more than three quarters of the rated
wattage, because when the transformer warms up in use, its output
diminishes."

The manual goes on:
"Also, the transformer itself is consuming some of its own
wattage."

The use of the phrase "its own wattage" is part of what makes me
think the power ratings refer to maximum safe CONSUMPTION (from the
wall outlet), not output. And there is more:

On the same page, the manual offers a general list of devices
(different locos, lamps, etc.) and their expected current needs. The
reader is directed to make an estimate of total current load from
this chart. (Accessories used intermittently don't count.)

Then comes the statement:
"If the total wattage needed by the chart should be 100 watts, it
would be advisable to get at least a 175 watt transformer."

So Gilbert is saying, in effect, don't CONSTANTLY use more than 57%
of the rated power of the transformer. (Short bursts of additional
power are ok.) Interestingly, 57% is about 3/4ths OF 3/4ths of 100%.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18765 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, March 31, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 18766 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: transformers
Gene wrote:

>I worked as an engineer for UL in the 60's & 70's, although not in
>the electrical dept. My guess is they did not check the wattage, but
>looked at spacings, insulation, strain relief of the power cord,
>heating of components relative to thermal ratings, etc.


My own professional "dealings" with UL occurred in the mid 1970s when
I was a technician at Yamaha's Consumer Electronics division. Each
year, we would submit certain new products to UL for approval, things
like stereo receivers, power amps, tape decks, etc. When the items
were returned, it was always obvious that each was run through quite
a "grinder". Power amps, for instance, would be not just poked and
prodded, but driven to their limits and beyond, then abused, then
disassembled, apparently with various types of cutting utensils.
Believe me, "wattage" was certainly tested, along with the device's
reaction to being dropped from a low flying helicopter, from the look
of things.

Since Gilbert's transformers operated on 120VAC household current,
isn't it likely that UL would have measured their true output in the
course of finding out at what point "safety first" went up in smoke?


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18767 From: Chuck Smith Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: Can motor
Gee! It only went for about $10 over retail.

Tim Brown wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I think I was the very first one to list a can motor for auction on eBay a couple weeks ago. I like going to yard sales to see how fast new technology works its way through American households and into the secondary market. Here's what I think is the second one to be listed:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1717062962
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18768 From: Gary Chidester Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Source of Angel Hair?
Now that I completed my first repair I realize how fortunate I was in that
there was enough good angel hair left to reuse it. I can't find any in my
area! Does anyone have a source for year round angel hair or am I relegated
to waiting for Christmas?

g
Group: S-Trains Message: 18769 From: Gary Chidester Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Las Vegas and trains?
I will be in Las Vegas next week for the National Association of
Broadcasters Convention. any hobby stores or train stores that I should see
while I'm there?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18770 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: I'm a bad boy!
So, I wrote back to the seller like such:

Dear Hostile Seller:
I wrote you to inform you about something you have for sale. I did so in
good spirit. I never
complained, nor did I call your description "wrongful" or "unknowingly". I
wrote because your auction has been the focus of discussion on the S-Trains
mail list.

The condition was apparent from the picture. I thought you might get a
laugh out of my "ex-wife" joke, so I put it in.

I hardly consider myself an "ebay loser". I have bought a substantial
amount of merchandise and only occasionally have been confronted by sellers
who are not forthright and do not complete deals appropriately.

I have posted your reply to me on the mail list. I have earmarked your
E-Bay name for future reference. Hostility does not sell well.

Good luck in your future endeavors.

Chris Zizzo


And then he replied AGAIN!:
> look, i have not the slightest clue who u are, as far as "wrongful" and
> "unknowingly" thats my quote, as in, emphasizing, i was quoting yourself.
>
> its the focus of what? whats s train? i have no idea what this is, so
you
> call my "exmint" "exwife"? how am i supposed to take that? a joke? no i
> dont think that is funny. assumption isnt the case.
>
> and oh, as far as posting my reply on a mail list without my authority is
> called "copy right infringment" which is against the law.
>
> i was hostile as you say, because of people like yourself, and other
people
> worrying about other peoples listing more then their own.
>
> when you say "I have bought a substantial amount of merchandise and only
> occasionally have been confronted by sellers who are not forthright and do
> not complete deals appropriately." i consider myself someone who doesnt
> complete a deal appropiately, thats hardly the case when you look at my
> feedback. (This guy has 9 negatives in which he is characterized as
hostile and "snotty.")
>
> again, i am contacting ebay for copyright infringement, which by the law
> states, any writing, including electronic mail used with out consent of
the
> writer is against the law.
>
> i hope you have the best of endeavors mr zizzo.
> look foward from hearing from ebay on this matter. this is not a resolved
> issue by any means!
>
> have a nice day Mr Zizzo,
>
> Nick Grigg

So, I wrote him one more time:

Thank you for writing back again. Your notes are hysterically amusing. It
is rare to find someone who is actually a bona-fide idiot. You are a gem,
sir.

I will post this last note on the internet as well for the amusement of my
friends and others. By the way, there is no copyright on e-mail, sorry.

Please do write again. I look forward to it. You're my new "Joke of the
Day."

Ta-Ta
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18771 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: transformers
Hi Chuck,

That IS interesting and I thank you for the reference.

Thanks again,
Tim

Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html
----- Original Message -----
From: jahoozdumm
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 4:55 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: transformers


Tim wrote:

>Where did the Gilbert's "75% of maximum" you sited come from.


"Gilbert American Flyer Instruction Book"
Copyright 1954
Part Nine: Power supply Safety First Transformers
Page 54, 1st paragraph:
"Never figure on drawing more than three quarters of the rated
wattage, because when the transformer warms up in use, its output
diminishes."

The manual goes on:
"Also, the transformer itself is consuming some of its own
wattage."

The use of the phrase "its own wattage" is part of what makes me
think the power ratings refer to maximum safe CONSUMPTION (from the
wall outlet), not output. And there is more:

On the same page, the manual offers a general list of devices
(different locos, lamps, etc.) and their expected current needs. The
reader is directed to make an estimate of total current load from
this chart. (Accessories used intermittently don't count.)

Then comes the statement:
"If the total wattage needed by the chart should be 100 watts, it
would be advisable to get at least a 175 watt transformer."

So Gilbert is saying, in effect, don't CONSTANTLY use more than 57%
of the rated power of the transformer. (Short bursts of additional
power are ok.) Interestingly, 57% is about 3/4ths OF 3/4ths of 100%.


Chuck F.




S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18772 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: I'm a bad boy!
Hi Chris,

This is great stuff. Hollywood writes couldn't do much better. I hope he flames back at you. I want more!!! This is internet insanity at it's finest. He reminds me of John Belushi's editorial commentaries where he loses it to a heart attack on camera in the glory days of SNL.

Am I now bad by association with you?

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Zizzo
To: slist
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 6:45 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] I'm a bad boy!


So, I wrote back to the seller like such:

Dear Hostile Seller:
I wrote you to inform you about something you have for sale. I did so in
good spirit. I never
complained, nor did I call your description "wrongful" or "unknowingly". I
wrote because your auction has been the focus of discussion on the S-Trains
mail list.

The condition was apparent from the picture. I thought you might get a
laugh out of my "ex-wife" joke, so I put it in.

I hardly consider myself an "ebay loser". I have bought a substantial
amount of merchandise and only occasionally have been confronted by sellers
who are not forthright and do not complete deals appropriately.

I have posted your reply to me on the mail list. I have earmarked your
E-Bay name for future reference. Hostility does not sell well.

Good luck in your future endeavors.

Chris Zizzo


And then he replied AGAIN!:
> look, i have not the slightest clue who u are, as far as "wrongful" and
> "unknowingly" thats my quote, as in, emphasizing, i was quoting yourself.
>
> its the focus of what? whats s train? i have no idea what this is, so
you
> call my "exmint" "exwife"? how am i supposed to take that? a joke? no i
> dont think that is funny. assumption isnt the case.
>
> and oh, as far as posting my reply on a mail list without my authority is
> called "copy right infringment" which is against the law.
>
> i was hostile as you say, because of people like yourself, and other
people
> worrying about other peoples listing more then their own.
>
> when you say "I have bought a substantial amount of merchandise and only
> occasionally have been confronted by sellers who are not forthright and do
> not complete deals appropriately." i consider myself someone who doesnt
> complete a deal appropiately, thats hardly the case when you look at my
> feedback. (This guy has 9 negatives in which he is characterized as
hostile and "snotty.")
>
> again, i am contacting ebay for copyright infringement, which by the law
> states, any writing, including electronic mail used with out consent of
the
> writer is against the law.
>
> i hope you have the best of endeavors mr zizzo.
> look foward from hearing from ebay on this matter. this is not a resolved
> issue by any means!
>
> have a nice day Mr Zizzo,
>
> Nick Grigg

So, I wrote him one more time:

Thank you for writing back again. Your notes are hysterically amusing. It
is rare to find someone who is actually a bona-fide idiot. You are a gem,
sir.

I will post this last note on the internet as well for the amusement of my
friends and others. By the way, there is no copyright on e-mail, sorry.

Please do write again. I look forward to it. You're my new "Joke of the
Day."

Ta-Ta
Chris Zizzo






S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18773 From: mlmarmer Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: eBay item 1717113076 (Ends Apr-02-02 134421 PST ) - 1940's Manoil #
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1717113076

Hi Chris,

Take a look at the added description to this fine piece of ex-mint on Ebay from your new found friend! You really got him pissed off!! LOL!!! Funny stuff.

So what is the Ebay news group you belong to? LOL!

Take care and keep up the good work at the Ebay news group for s trains.

Go Terps!! Fear the Turtle and this guy from Ebay! Had to throw in the MD stuff!

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18774 From: Robert Wight Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: I'm a bad boy!
Chris; This is a real hoot. Keep them coming. Copyright infringments. Oh, My
sides hurt, I can hardly take it. Please keep up the good work.
Yours in model railroading.
Bob Wight
P.S. I give all copyright permission to read this response.


>From: Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...>
>To: slist <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [S-Trains] I'm a bad boy!
>Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:45:41 -0500
>
>So, I wrote back to the seller like such:
>
>Dear Hostile Seller:
>I wrote you to inform you about something you have for sale. I did so in
>good spirit. I never
>complained, nor did I call your description "wrongful" or "unknowingly". I
>wrote because your auction has been the focus of discussion on the S-Trains
>mail list.
>
>The condition was apparent from the picture. I thought you might get a
>laugh out of my "ex-wife" joke, so I put it in.
>
>I hardly consider myself an "ebay loser". I have bought a substantial
>amount of merchandise and only occasionally have been confronted by sellers
>who are not forthright and do not complete deals appropriately.
>
>I have posted your reply to me on the mail list. I have earmarked your
>E-Bay name for future reference. Hostility does not sell well.
>
>Good luck in your future endeavors.
>
>Chris Zizzo
>
>
>And then he replied AGAIN!:
> > look, i have not the slightest clue who u are, as far as "wrongful" and
> > "unknowingly" thats my quote, as in, emphasizing, i was quoting
>yourself.
> >
> > its the focus of what? whats s train? i have no idea what this is, so
>you
> > call my "exmint" "exwife"? how am i supposed to take that? a joke? no
>i
> > dont think that is funny. assumption isnt the case.
> >
> > and oh, as far as posting my reply on a mail list without my authority
>is
> > called "copy right infringment" which is against the law.
> >
> > i was hostile as you say, because of people like yourself, and other
>people
> > worrying about other peoples listing more then their own.
> >
> > when you say "I have bought a substantial amount of merchandise and only
> > occasionally have been confronted by sellers who are not forthright and
>do
> > not complete deals appropriately." i consider myself someone who doesnt
> > complete a deal appropiately, thats hardly the case when you look at my
> > feedback. (This guy has 9 negatives in which he is characterized as
>hostile and "snotty.")
> >
> > again, i am contacting ebay for copyright infringement, which by the law
> > states, any writing, including electronic mail used with out consent of
>the
> > writer is against the law.
> >
> > i hope you have the best of endeavors mr zizzo.
> > look foward from hearing from ebay on this matter. this is not a
>resolved
> > issue by any means!
> >
> > have a nice day Mr Zizzo,
> >
> > Nick Grigg
>
>So, I wrote him one more time:
>
>Thank you for writing back again. Your notes are hysterically amusing. It
>is rare to find someone who is actually a bona-fide idiot. You are a gem,
>sir.
>
>I will post this last note on the internet as well for the amusement of my
>friends and others. By the way, there is no copyright on e-mail, sorry.
>
>Please do write again. I look forward to it. You're my new "Joke of the
>Day."
>
>Ta-Ta
>Chris Zizzo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
>s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




Check Out My American Flyer Trains
http://www.boomspeed.com/bobgaylord/


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18775 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: eBay item 1717113076 (Ends Apr-02-02 134421 PST ) - 1940's Mano
Mission Accomplished....?

-----Original Message-----
From: mlmarmer [mailto:mlmarmer@...]
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 7:57 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] eBay item 1717113076 (Ends Apr-02-02 134421 PST ) -
1940's Manoil # no.707 road




http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1717113076

Hi Chris,

Take a look at the added description to this fine piece of ex-mint on Ebay
from your new found friend! You really got him pissed off!! LOL!!! Funny
stuff.

So what is the Ebay news group you belong to? LOL!

Take care and keep up the good work at the Ebay news group for s trains.

Go Terps!! Fear the Turtle and this guy from Ebay! Had to throw in the MD
stuff!

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18776 From: mlmarmer Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: eBay item 1717113076 (Ends Apr-02-02 134421 PST ) - 1940's Mano
Mission Accomplished when Maryland wins the Final Four or when this guy
sells the Ex-Mint truck?

Hats off to Mike Davis and Indiana, also.

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Tuveson" <Carl@...>
To: "'mlmarmer'" <mlmarmer@...>; <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 7:59 PM
Subject: RE: [S-Trains] eBay item 1717113076 (Ends Apr-02-02 134421 PST ) -
1940's Manoil # no.707 road


> Mission Accomplished....?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mlmarmer [mailto:mlmarmer@...]
> Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 7:57 PM
> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [S-Trains] eBay item 1717113076 (Ends Apr-02-02 134421 PST ) -
> 1940's Manoil # no.707 road
>
>
>
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1717113076
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> Take a look at the added description to this fine piece of ex-mint on
Ebay
> from your new found friend! You really got him pissed off!! LOL!!!
Funny
> stuff.
>
> So what is the Ebay news group you belong to? LOL!
>
> Take care and keep up the good work at the Ebay news group for s trains.
>
> Go Terps!! Fear the Turtle and this guy from Ebay! Had to throw in the
MD
> stuff!
>
> Mike Marmer
> Germantown, MD
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18777 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: THE season
I would like to wish everybody on this list a HAPPY BASEBALL SEASON! I
know I'm psyched.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18778 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Wanted to chat
Hi,

I wanted to chat tonight. Yahoo Groups says I'm not a member. Go figure. I noticed that 'Chat' isn't an active link on the S-trains Home Page (which I can access 'cuz I'm a member). Is that why I can't chat? Is anybody out there chatting?

Banned from chatting,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18779 From: Tim Brown Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: No chat for me tonight!
Hi,

Guess I've been banned from the chat room, like so many others.

Later...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18780 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: 1940's Manoil # no.707 road
Mike marmer noticed that the auction has now been changed to reflect the
correspondence:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1717113076
>Take a look at the added description to this fine piece of ex-mint on Ebay
>from your new found friend! You really got him pissed off!! LOL!!! Funny
stuff.

Well, isn't that the pretty bow that ties it all up?!

One of our subscribers (kenwoodies1) objected to this thread and called it
"childish to send an inflammatory email to the seller." The original
message was not inflammatory at all Ken. It was informative with a bit of
humor and irony tossed in for good measure. Most sellers respond well to
this approach. I have used it many times. In one case, we saved the buyer
$200 on a misrepresented diesel. On two other occasions, we have gotten
abusive clods thrown off of E-Bay permanently.

One of the purposes of this group, at least to me, is to act as a collective
agency to protect the interests of the members from predatory and larcenous
train sellers. E-Bay, like it or not, is the single biggest train show on
the planet, York included. This IS the marketplace. Most of us do business
there. Banding together and ferreting out the rodents is how we put our
scarce train dollars to their most productive use.

I have made friendly relationships with many sellers and only occasionally
turn up a flaming a--hole. But this guy . . . this guy is a gem! How can
you not laugh at this ridiculous interchange? This man has no sense of
humor, no ability to generalize or to extract useful information from
e-mail. He is all knee-jerk reaction and as hostile as hell. He is also
not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed. And, he misrepresented an item
and is now back-pedalling for all he is worth.

The logical conclusion has now been reached as he makes retractions all over
his auction page. So now I agree with you, enough already!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18781 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: 30Bs
I run my layout on two 30Bs. One for controller for each line. I love them!
When I win the lotto and get a bigger room to run trains, I'll put my 18B
into the line up too. I have an 8B and 2 4Bs running accessories. May add
one more for MTH Gabe.

You want a kill switch? Turn off the toggle.

Jacques
Group: S-Trains Message: 18782 From: jahoozdumm Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: eBay item 1717113076 (Ends Apr-02-02 134421 PST ) - 1940's Manoil #
I love it when a seller makes a judgement about the condition of an
item, then tries to cover his behind by claiming he doesn't know what
he's talking about. Always inspires confidence, yup.


Sheesh.

Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18783 From: bilfrazier@aol.com Date: 3/31/2002
Subject: Re: UL approval
In looking through the old AF catalogs, and on the nameplates of my
transformers, the smaller ones, such as the 8B are listed as UL approved, but
there is no mention of UL on any of the larger turret type units.
If they were NOT tested by UL (and not all electrical items were), Gilbert
could have been quite flexible with the wattage ratings.

Bill Frazier

In a message dated 3/31/02 5:51:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 22:17:20 -0000
> From: "jahoozdumm" <eighthmile@...>
> Subject: Re: transformers
>
> Gene wrote:
>
> >I worked as an engineer for UL in the 60's & 70's, although not in
> >the electrical dept. My guess is they did not check the wattage, but
> >looked at spacings, insulation, strain relief of the power cord,
> >heating of components relative to thermal ratings, etc.
>
>
> My own professional "dealings" with UL occurred in the mid 1970s when
> I was a technician at Yamaha's Consumer Electronics division. Each
> year, we would submit certain new products to UL for approval, things
> like stereo receivers, power amps, tape decks, etc. When the items
> were returned, it was always obvious that each was run through quite
> a "grinder". Power amps, for instance, would be not just poked and
> prodded, but driven to their limits and beyond, then abused, then
> disassembled, apparently with various types of cutting utensils.
> Believe me, "wattage" was certainly tested, along with the device's
> reaction to being dropped from a low flying helicopter, from the look
> of things.
>
> Since Gilbert's transformers operated on 120VAC household current,
> isn't it likely that UL would have measured their true output in the
> course of finding out at what point "safety first" went up in smoke?
>
>
> Chuck F.
>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18784 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: Source of Angel Hair?
I have seen the reference to "angel hair". I am familiar with the fiberglass
material used in the filters of tropical fish aquariums. Would this be the same
thing? If so, it would be a good, year around, cheap, source for the angel hair.
Gene

Gary Chidester wrote:

> Now that I completed my first repair I realize how fortunate I was in that
> there was enough good angel hair left to reuse it. I can't find any in my
> area! Does anyone have a source for year round angel hair or am I relegated
> to waiting for Christmas?
>
> g
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18785 From: af21115 Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: Here's what the seller wrote back
I've always said, if the seller has no idea of what they have and how
to present it properly and correctly, they have no business selling
it, period. The burden was on them to do a little research, or turn
the item over to a knowledgeable seller to make the listing. The
seller set themselves up for criticisim in this situation by being
ignorant of what they had and how to describe it in auction and
assumed incorrectly that a small disclaimer would suffice. This was
incorrect, but unfortunately happens far too often. He's also
arrogant and somewhat illiterate to boot.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18786 From: Paul Yorke Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: one request, one suggestion
The request:
If you are posting a note that deals with Ebay, please
include the word Ebay in the title.

The suggestion:
If you would like to segregate the Ebay traffic from
the rest of your incoming notes, set up a filter in
your email that looks for the word Ebay in the subject
line. Then you only need to look at that stuff if you
want to.

So much email so little time.



=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18787 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: The silliness continues
Thanks to everyone who emailed me privately and supporting what I
said, and to a couple of the guys who are thinking of quitting the
list, hang in there, maybe it will actually get back to trains! To:
Chris Zizzo, I don't know you personally, but if you sent me an email
referring to an ex-wife along with the rest of your comments I would
probably react the same way as the seller. You may of thought it was
funny. I thought it was low class. The seller states clearly in his
auction: LOOK AT THE PICTURE. You can see the condition of the
piece. You intentionally flamed the guy with your continuing emails.
Who is the a**hole? What was the point? To: af21115, since when did
it become a criteria for a seller to do research on an item they
wanted to sell? Caveat emptor, "let the BUYER beware". If every
seller knew what they were selling in this world, most of us wouldn't
have half the trains we do now. All this over a $10 car. Let's get
back to trains.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18788 From: Steve Blancard Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: Ebay- The silliness continues
Enough already. I don't mind an occaisional reference to Ebay listings but we don't
really need to get into the back and forth banter between a seller and potential (or
potential non-buyer). We can all see an Ebay item and make our own judgments.

I'm with Paul Y., add Ebay to the subject line so it can be quickly deleted, if so
desired by each recipient.

Can we talk trains now ?

Steve Blancard

kenwoodies1 wrote:

> Thanks to everyone who emailed me privately and supporting what I
> said, and to a couple of the guys who are thinking of quitting the
> list, hang in there, maybe it will actually get back to trains! To:
> Chris Zizzo, I don't know you personally, but if you sent me an email
> referring to an ex-wife along with the rest of your comments I would
> probably react the same way as the seller. You may of thought it was
> funny. I thought it was low class. The seller states clearly in his
> auction: LOOK AT THE PICTURE. You can see the condition of the
> piece. You intentionally flamed the guy with your continuing emails.
> Who is the a**hole? What was the point? To: af21115, since when did
> it become a criteria for a seller to do research on an item they
> wanted to sell? Caveat emptor, "let the BUYER beware". If every
> seller knew what they were selling in this world, most of us wouldn't
> have half the trains we do now. All this over a $10 car. Let's get
> back to trains.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18789 From: mlmarmer Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: eBay item 1718609257 (Ends Apr-10-02 203925 PDT ) - AMERICAN FLYER
Now here is a listing with some humor about Ex-Mint and Circus Animals!

Mike Marmer

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1718609257


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18790 From: af21115 Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: The silliness continues
Since I am sick and tired of covering for every slacker who is too
lazy to do a little research, and get the facts before they post an
auction with inaccurate and inept descriptions and/or values. Why is
it that the buyer ALWAYS must cover their rears, and do all the
work??? People need to start taking rersponsibility for their own
actions instead of passing the buck to everyone else.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18791 From: joshseltzer Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: NASG 2002 Convention Update - Schedule on website
The CVASA website has been updated. The schedule for the 2002 NASG
Convention has been added. www.cvsga.org

Josh Seltzer
Group: S-Trains Message: 18792 From: Roger J. Dumas Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: The silliness continues
There is a very easy out for all of this. Don't participate in the Auction,
period. This whole discussion is like complaining about the weather.


----- Original Message -----
From: "af21115" <Dave0616@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 10:34 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: The silliness continues


> Since I am sick and tired of covering for every slacker who is too
> lazy to do a little research, and get the facts before they post an
> auction with inaccurate and inept descriptions and/or values. Why is
> it that the buyer ALWAYS must cover their rears, and do all the
> work??? People need to start taking rersponsibility for their own
> actions instead of passing the buck to everyone else.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18793 From: Robert Wight Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay The silliness continues
I agree. Also it does not take any kind of research to see if an item is old
or new. It is plainly clear this item is old and abused. You don't have to
be a researcher or genius to see this. I think Chris's comments were
appropriate and I also believe actions like that teach these people to have
the proper behavior in the future listings. I had one guy sell an item to me
that had breaks and cracks never listed and not on the photo. I asked him
why is this so far from the description given. He told me it was a
description that he had from the auction he bought it from so it was okay to
mis lead me on the item. That is the type of logic some of these people use.
Its nuts. He could plainly see for himself this item was broke. I had a guy
ship me a train all hooked together and thrown in a box with no stuffing at
all. It was a box of nuts and bolts when I got it. When I asked for at least
a discount on the price for his lack of care. He offered my money back after
I ship it back and he collect on the insurance I payed for. He didnt even
let me collect on my insurance I payed the premium for. I didnt want my
money back. I wanted my train shipped to me properly. He told me off and
left me bad feedback. So hip hip hooray for Chris. It's good to know there's
some people out there trying to make a little difference.
Bob Wight


>From: "af21115" <Dave0616@...>
>To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [S-Trains] Re: The silliness continues
>Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 15:34:40 -0000
>
>Since I am sick and tired of covering for every slacker who is too
>lazy to do a little research, and get the facts before they post an
>auction with inaccurate and inept descriptions and/or values. Why is
>it that the buyer ALWAYS must cover their rears, and do all the
>work??? People need to start taking rersponsibility for their own
>actions instead of passing the buck to everyone else.
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
>s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




Check Out My American Flyer Trains
http://www.boomspeed.com/bobgaylord/


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 18794 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1402
In a message dated 04/01/2002 8:51:40 AM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> From: jarcho@...
> Subject: THE season
>
> I would like to wish everybody on this list a HAPPY BASEBALL SEASON! I
> know I'm psyched.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
>
>
>
> Me too, Sam and I start our first Umpiring job of the season tomorrow
night.

Steve



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18795 From: Ted Larson Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: moderator (Yahoo problems)
I found this YAHOO information on another list that I subscribe to.
Perhaps the "problem" came about when YAHOO made their recent server
change??? Who knows! Anyway, its probably worth your while to check
your settings. fyi, if the mail is from Yahoo, it is not really SPAM.
SPAM is from people who use stolen e-mail addresses. Yahoo has your
address because you gave it to them.

Ted

> (start quote)
> I've just been alerted by a friend that Yahoo have just made a
sneaky
> change to everybody's 'Marketing Preferences', the result of which
> will be a load of spam. So, I've just been in and changed back what
> they've done so that I won't be receiving their ads! They had
changed
> ALL of my *No's* to *Yes!*
>
> Here's what you need to do:
>
> - Go to My Groups
> - click on Account Info (upper right hand corner)
> - verify your password if it asks you to, and your Yahoo ID card
> comes up.
> - Click on 'Edit your Marketing Preferences' and change all those
> Yes's back to No's!
> - Click Save Changes

=====
Ted Larson

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18796 From: David Dewey Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: eBay: Random thoughts and experiences, some funny
First, Paul has a good idea, start the subject line with "eBay" if that's
what the post is mostly about. I do believe eBay is a valid S-trains
subject, as we probably all at least look there (It's sorta like
McDonalds--no one wants to admit eating there, but they seem to be doing a
lot of business anyway!).
I have had good and bad experiences. Once I bought a "20" coach on eBay,
but it took me three weeks to get a response from the seller. I did manage
to get my car even, and it turned out to be an OK purchase. Patience has its
rewards, sometimes!
I recently found two auctions for some really sad AF. It was obviously
the remains of someone's beloved set that had been disassembled "back when"
and then stored in a damp place for decades. The seller sold the loco and
cars in one lot, and the box of track in another. The description only
talked about track, but the photo showed a box with the tender floor and
reeves unit, and some other intriguing pieces, so I bid on it. Fortunately I
mentioned the pieced to the seller, and his response was, "Well that wasn't
what I was selling, but I don't have any use for them, so I'll throw them
in." I wanted to tell him to throw away the track and send me the bits, but
I didn't. Shipping seemed a bit high, but I paid it. The box arrived,
rattling with track pins sticking out (the postal people didn't appreciate
that!) He apparently just took the box the trains had been stored in and
shipped it to me, track jumbled and all. The box was at least 4 times the
size it needed to be, but nothing seemed to get damaged, and sure enough, a
lot of the missing parts for the train auction pieces were in the box, and
it was a good purchase--not great, but OK! This guy obviously doesn't have a
clue, and I benefited. I would have done better if he'd had any idea about
shipping!
Shipping stories, I have received a passenger car that was only wrapped
in a piece of cardboard and taped together. It arrived un-damaged. I have
also received an operating baggage car that was very well cushioned, but had
to have been dropped from a high location during shipping as one end was
cracked, and the KC coupler smashed. It wasn't that way in the pics, and the
parts in the box indicated shipping woes. Go figure! (no, I didn't have it
insured, so I lost there---but it was a repaint candidate anyway, so it's
fixable). The seller was apologetic, and he had done his part in packing it,
IMHO.
I loved the description for the "April Fool's ex-mint Circus train" the
seller obviously knows his stuff, and reads eBay auctions (and I suppose
this list too) and has candidly writting accurately about this train set. I
suspect it will go for far more than he thought, and more than I'm willing
to pay too! Remember, eBay is where SnS can motors, used, go for more than
they cost new! Ain't Auction Fever fun?
Now to go find that nearby yard sale where the people don't have a clue
what that green passenger train set is. . . .
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18797 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: POST OFFICE INS.
Just a note about P.O. Insurance. The PO tells me that the ins. that you
buy from them is no longer valid as far as DAMAGE. It only covers LOSS of the
item. If you mark your box FRAGILE it really nullifies the insurance claim. I
guess they may pay for damage if you can track down their truck that ran over
the box by the tire tread imprints. Anyone else heard this from their local
PO or is mine the only one just taking the extra $ for a deleted service.
Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18798 From: dasha469 Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: N.Y.C. American Models Steam Passenger Set
Who has this loverly set ? Is it as nice as advertized? Where can one
purchase it at a discount?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18799 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Off Topic--Copyright
Sorry for the sidebar, fellows, but I couldn't let this one go by, lest someone get into legal trouble. Based on my considerable experience with copyright law, I maintain that e-mail IS copyrighted, as is any other type of personal correspondence. The copyright exists from the time the work (letter) is created, and, contrary to popular opinion, it is not required to be registered with the Copyright Office, nor does it need to bear a notice of copyright (although it helps in the event of litigation).

Quoting from title 17, U.S. Code, copyright protection extends to "original works of authorship fixed in any tangible medium of expression, now known or later developed, from which they can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, either directly or with the aid of a machine or device." Correspondence, including e-mail, would fall under the category of "literary works."

Whether or not it would be worth it to pursue litigation for copyright infringement of an e-mail is an entirely different matter. But all you budding authors can now tell your spouses that you're creating copyrighted material when you write to S-Trains.

YourS,
John Eichmann
(c) 2002 John Eichmann ;-)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18800 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: Off Topic--Copyright
John: I found your"off topic" posting very relevant and to the point. Any
time you want to hold forth on such subjects, have at it!

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18801 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: For What It's Worth
Hi,

I believe that eBay and trains are inextricably bound. As someone pointed out, eBay IS the market place for trains. Our hobby is about trains. This is what we do for a hobby. As a group, I believe we should monitor eBay auctions as pertains to S gauge. That means if a seller needs educated, we should try; if a seller is flagrantly dishonest, we should do what we can to have him busted off eBay. I'll go further to state that we should have a delegate or delegates (for lack of better words) to monitor eBay selling. Chris, if you want the job, you have my vote (you've been doing it anyway). As far as I'm concerned, when you are acting in the best interest of keeping eBay sellers well informed and honest, you are also acting in my best interest as a train enthusiast.

I really feel we have a responsibility to take the high ground. If you recall, I recently put a Guilford Station up for auction. I asked members to look at the auction and tell me if they thought it was not an appropriate listing based on my previous postings to the S-list. No one responded back to me so the listing stood and the station sold. I received positive feedback from the buyer.

I'm not trying to promote us as the eBay-Nazis. But sellers should know that eBay auctions are monitored by a proprietary group that cares, whether they like it or not.

Thanks for taking the time to read the above,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18802 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: E-BAY FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18803 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: AF in Pittsburgh, Wheeling, Columbus
Hello all,

I did indeed get the "honor" of a long-term assignment to the
Wheeling, WV area and just arrived this afternoon. I will have a
couple of weekends with plenty of free time to go in search of AF!
I've received from the group a couple of AF sources in Pittsburgh and
Columbus as well as info on the toy & train museum in Wheeling.

I would appreciate any information that anyone may have concerning AF
purchasing opportunities in this part of the country. It's not often
a good ol southern boy gets up here, but we hear rumors of AF flowing
like wine in the flea markets up here.

Thanks for your help.

BG1
Group: S-Trains Message: 18804 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: American Flyer Oddity
How many people own or are familiar with the "Tom Thumb Fold-A-Way
Train Town" for American Flyer Trains? This item from the early
1950's was not made by Gilbert but was manufactured in Waterbury CT,
about 28 miles from New Haven. Please post to the list, any
knowledge or thoughts you may have on this unique concept. More to
come.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18805 From: Scott Holm Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: POST OFFICE INS.
--- anormal1@... wrote:
> Just a note about P.O. Insurance. The PO tells me that the ins.
> that you buy from them is no longer valid as far as DAMAGE. It only
covers LOSS of the item.

Sounds like an April fools joke.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18806 From: TCS Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scale
686 ATSF station sign names.

687 ATSF station sign names.

688 CNW transfer caboose, 1960's plus.

689 ACFX, Wilbur-Ellis 3 bay ACF covered hopper. 10-80

690 CNW GP7 1776, bi-centennial paint.

691 CRLE 50' highcube boxcar. 3-95

692 SLSF - Frisco red lettering for passenger cars.

693 CP 60' highcube boxcar. 7-01


Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-.
N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These
should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so.

If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N,
HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $1.75 for p&h. You buy this catalog once,
then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring
binder.

---
---
Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals
N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals
26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054
Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@...
Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/
Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/
NMRA Member #121756
Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 18807 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Comments
Hello;
If you was buying a car, boat, a piece of furniture
real or toy.
If it was in the condition of that Manoil coupe, would you
call it
in Mint condition? That car is in poor condition at best.
Describing that toy as mint is Fraud, even though you
posted a picture.
The proof of this is, Look at the low bids you are getting.

I don't think E-bay would like your description if it was
brought to their attention.
The other fellows writing you with similar comments are
collectors in this field
and think your description is a joke.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 18808 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Ebay funnies
I personally bid and buy a fair amount of things off of Ebay and can honestly
say I've never been dis-satisfied. Most items relate to old cars and
fiberglass boats from the 50's and I rarely buy Gilbert Flyer, but again I've
never been ripped off. Still haven't sold my Rocket freight set so it may go
to Ebay. Let the buyer beware!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18809 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: E-BAY POLICY
I have seen the revised listing by the seller of the coupe. He has
violated one of E-Bays major rules. The listing of another's E-BAY, ID or
E-mail address in there item description. I found this out on my smoke fluid
auctions. I had one canceled by E-BAY for having an E-mail address of the
person that wrote a review about my fluid in the description. E-BAY may or
may not catch this. If it is reported they will. They may stop the auction &
give a warning, as in my case. I follow their rules now that I'm aware. Mike
PS: BLATANT AD Buy some Fluid


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18810 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: E-bay coupe again
>
> i think you are a joke roger, and every other clown who agrees with you, i
> said "exmint" and "look at picture for grade". get over it, i was not wrong
> in writing what i did, if u even look at the auction listing and READ the
> whole thing, u will understand, but u are obviously very ignorant and have no
> life to be arguing that has nothing to do with you, none of your business to
> boot. im amazed with you and chris zizzo who i am aware is an unwanted
> person on the strains newsgroup from more people then have agreed with him.
> i dont care what u people think, i cleared up the issue and leave it at that.
> again from the beginning if you read my listing its perfectly fine. no one
> is bidding b/c no one gives two sh*ts about toy cars. id say find a new
> hobby is u get jollys out of argueing about somthing you no clue what u are
> talking about. maybe u are a toy car expect, whoopie! read the freakin
> auction before you complain to me!
>
> if you want to argue somthing, get the facts straight.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18811 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Off Topic--Copyright
One only needs to follow the course of any usenet thread to understand where
lawyerly thinking comes from. It comes from beating a concept to death.

Incidental, casual correspondence has never enjoyed the formal protection of
copyright law and many a fine idea has been squandered to those who would
plunder and plagiarize intellectual property from such communications media.
However, though some creative idea contained within common communication
might be the focus of a dispute on this topic, ordinary blather as is seen
in the daily stream of Internet e-Mail has no such standing.

Before we allow our barristic instincts to build a formidable case favoring
the Manoil Moron, let us examine the principle upon which copyright law
stands.

A copyright is a right to copy. Exclusively. For a limited time. This
right is granted the author or other rightful owner of an intellectual
property so that others may not profit from the original and unique ideas
contained therin. Eventually, this right fades away as the item in
question, a poem, a song, becomes a part of the culture and can no longer be
claimed by a single individual as his own alone. You come up with a cool
idea, you get to use it and charge others to use it, for a given number of
years until it rejoins the public domain. You can say "Hubba-hubba" on the
Public Address system of a football game, but don't say "Let's get ready to
rumble," or you will get a nasty letter from Michael Buffer's attorney.

In the case of the aforementioned e-mail, I bring the following argumentae:
1.) All presentations and writings of the author have been fully creditied
with no alterations made. No one else has claimed his words as their own.
2.) There is not a single coherent idea contained in any of the "authors"
e-mails, thus, no ideas could have been stolen,
3.) Since the author has no ascertainable intellect, he cannot have produced
anything that would be referred to as intellectual property,
4.) In simple lawyerly terms, "show me the harm". Is it that this clod will
lose sales because those of this group who have read these missives will do
no business with him? Then let him sue. Calling a man a thief may harm
him, but if he IS a thief, the calling is a protection of the community over
the right of an individual to steal unimpeded.
5.) The guy is an idiot. Screw him.

Now, does that answer your question?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18812 From: TCS Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scale
Correction!!


The CNW 1776 is a GP18 and not a GP7 btw!

Greg


> >
> > > > Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scale


> > > 690 CNW GP7 1776, bi-centennial paint.



Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals
N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals
26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054
Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@...
Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/
Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/
NMRA Member #121756
Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 18813 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: POST OFFICE INS.
Hi,
Just back from the P.O. The info I posted earlier about loss coverage
only is true. DAMAGE is no longer covered, due to abuse of the system that
paid claims without too much hassle. Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18814 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: E-bay question
I suppose this may sound like a silly question to some. I have been considering
making a model RR to auction off in e-bay. The purpose is to raise funds for
Crossroads of America. HTTP://travel.to/cofa
The question is; Is there a place on e-bay to post information on items that
will be up for bid in the future?

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 18815 From: mlmarmer Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: E-bay coupe again
Hi Roger and Chris,

I re-read his description of this "Ex - mint" car, like he said to do in the
below response to Roger. An terrible and insulting response to you Roger.
You didn't do anything in your email to him, to deserve that kind of
response. So much for sending a seller a question. I think that is
something Ebay should look at, from a customer service perspective. I sure
hope this guy is not a business owner or is involved in dealing with people
in a business.

But, I think he forgot to said that the car is "Red and Speckled Brown from
lost of Red Paint". LOL! Therefore it was mint at one time in its life.
Yes, ex mint now!

I guess we are all Bozo's, (LOL) like something from the Fireside Theatre,
on this site for agreeing with you two that the car is not what it is,
condition wise!

Mike Marmer

Oh, Go Terps!!


----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Hinds" <cofa@...>
Cc: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 1:29 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] E-bay coupe again


>
>
> >
> > i think you are a joke roger, and every other clown who agrees with you,
i
> > said "exmint" and "look at picture for grade". get over it, i was not
wrong
> > in writing what i did, if u even look at the auction listing and READ
the
> > whole thing, u will understand, but u are obviously very ignorant and
have no
> > life to be arguing that has nothing to do with you, none of your
business to
> > boot. im amazed with you and chris zizzo who i am aware is an unwanted
> > person on the strains newsgroup from more people then have agreed with
him.
> > i dont care what u people think, i cleared up the issue and leave it at
that.
> > again from the beginning if you read my listing its perfectly fine. no
one
> > is bidding b/c no one gives two sh*ts about toy cars. id say find a new
> > hobby is u get jollys out of argueing about somthing you no clue what u
are
> > talking about. maybe u are a toy car expect, whoopie! read the freakin
> > auction before you complain to me!
> >
> > if you want to argue somthing, get the facts straight.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18816 From: Don Thompson Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: Trona PS-2 covered hopper
One of our eagle eyed customers spotted this on e-bay. Of all the
items we have produced, one of the most requested is the Trona two bay
PS-2. This first run car, was not included with the original 12
roadnames on the pre-production order form, but was offered for sale
once the container arrived. It was our very first PS-2 to sell out and
has been in demand ever since. The Soo and SP PS-2s are also from the
first run and sold out in 6 months.
I am sending this e-mail as information only. I have not been
contacted by the seller nor will I profit from its sale.

-- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 18817 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: electronic parts
Hi Guys,
Here I go again. I have a flasher unit I bought about 2 years ago from a guy
at a show. I hooked it up and it worked the first time. i must have hooked it
up wrong the second time and blew something. So, I'm going to replace the
parts I think might be bad. The number is 2N2222A. . I found it in the adio
shack catalog called a bi-polar small-signal/switching transistor. what
exactly this do? The next part is a bridge rectifier I think, number .W04G
924A I can't find this at radio shack or Mouser's site. Any help for me?
Thanks


There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18818 From: Don Thompson Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: Trona PS-2 covered hopper part 2
Oops!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1718757095

Don Thompson wrote:

> One of our eagle eyed customers spotted this on e-bay. Of all the
> items we have produced, one of the most requested is the Trona two bay
> PS-2. This first run car, was not included with the original 12
> roadnames on the pre-production order form, but was offered for sale
> once the container arrived. It was our very first PS-2 to sell out and
> has been in demand ever since. The Soo and SP PS-2s are also from the
> first run and sold out in 6 months.
> I am sending this e-mail as information only. I have not been
> contacted by the seller nor will I profit from its sale.
>
> -- Don Thompson
> S Helper Service Inc.
> http://www.showcaseline.com
> 1.800.465.0303
> New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
> http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 18819 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1402
There's a train store on Boulder Highway. They have S-Gauge, some
old Gilbert, some new Lionel. I bought some items for rolling stock
loads there early in march (containers, hopper "cement" covers). I
can't remember the store name at the moment. BTW I'll be at NAB
next week as well, LVCC Booth #1957 (Acoustics First). --- Nick

>Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 16:44:47 -0700
> From: Gary Chidester <GChidester@...>
>Subject: Las Vegas and trains?
>
>I will be in Las Vegas next week for the National Association of
>Broadcasters Convention. any hobby stores or train stores that I should see
>while I'm there?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18820 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Re: electronic parts
The Bridge is 400Volt 1amp. Probably not a critical component Radio Shack
should have one that would work.

Here is a link for info on the bridge.

http://www.futurlec.com/DiodesBridge.html

Is there only one transistor on the board?

Carl


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.tuveson.com
Check out the New AF Loco Geared Drive Kit !
Buy it on line with PayPal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-----Original Message-----
From: Cbtrainnut1@... [mailto:Cbtrainnut1@...]
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 8:14 PM
To: S-Trains@egroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] electronic parts


Hi Guys,
Here I go again. I have a flasher unit I bought about 2 years ago from a
guy
at a show. I hooked it up and it worked the first time. i must have hooked
it
up wrong the second time and blew something. So, I'm going to replace the
parts I think might be bad. The number is 2N2222A. . I found it in the adio
shack catalog called a bi-polar small-signal/switching transistor. what
exactly this do? The next part is a bridge rectifier I think, number .W04G
924A I can't find this at radio shack or Mouser's site. Any help for me?
Thanks


There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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Group: S-Trains Message: 18821 From: Paul Yorke Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: 10 guys in the raw ... (yes, on topic)
I got my Finescale 'Characters' today. I must admit I hesitated when I
saw an international envelope with something solid inside. But
immediately recognized the New Zealand address, because I have been
there, but that's another story.
To see the guys in their raw (unpainted) glory, check out...
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/figures/finescale.html

Anybody got some 'How to paint figures' tips?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18822 From: jgestar Date: 4/1/2002
Subject: Postal insurance claims
>>A normal 1 in essence wrote: Postal insurance will not pay damage
claims, only claims for loss.

Mike,

I collected two insurance damage claims last Monday. I did jump a
few hoops in the process.

I needed to present the damaged item and the packaging it came in, a
repair estimate for the damaged item, the original insurance receipt
given to the shipper by the shipping post office, and an insurance
claim form. Getting the estimates and receipts is a pain. I did not
have to turn over the broken item to the post office.

My claims were less than $50 so they were authorized and paid at the
local post office.

At least the insured packages show up or can be tracked. Uninsured
packages are untrackable when lost in the US Postal system.


Tom Gould
Group: S-Trains Message: 18823 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Enough of your nonsense.
>Chris Zizzo, I don't know you personally, but if you sent me an email
>referring to an ex-wife along with the rest of your comments I would
>probably react the same way as the seller. You may of thought it was
funny. I thought it was low class.

Ken:
If you did, then you would be branding yourself as part of the same
illiterate humorless ilk as the moron in question. Are you sure you want to
do that?

I wasn't mentioning HIS ex-wife. I don't know that he was ever married. I
asked if "Ex-Mint" meant "Excellent-Mint" or did the Ex have the meaning it
does in the phrase "Ex-Wife", where it was once great, but not anymore. Now
that I have explained it to you, does that clear it up in your mind?

You find that it is low class to take low lifes and cheats to task for their
actions? You feel that all the predators of the world should simply have
their way with us and it is our problem to have to deal with it? You like
walking through the minefield without a map, even though you have friends
who want to help you and point the way?

Well, OK then. Go it alone. Go back to talking trains. Go, hide your
little head. Maybe you'll never have to deal with such a thing because YOU
don't like e-Bay and YOU don't buy on e-Bay and WE shouldn't talk about
e-Bay on your list.

I have heard this nonsense about people quitting lists over e-Bay posts.
QUIT already!!!! Stop talking about it. Just quit. Go back to a little
dark room where you can look over 50 year old catalogs and dream of
Christmas tree layouts and that big Northern you hope Dad will buy you. You
don't have to own modern equipment, you don't have to acknowledge that Flyer
got sold to big bad Lionel and you don't have to EVER deal with the specter
of e-Bay. In fact this whole computer thing can go away and you can pretend
none of it ever existed.

I'm not going to flag my messages that they have e-Bay content. I urge no
one to follow such an edict. E-Bay is a central, principal part of this
landscape. GET OVER IT!

And let's move on.

Chris Zizzo

Like my Mama always said:
"Like is like a box of mints on e-Bay. You just never know what you're
gonna get."
Group: S-Trains Message: 18824 From: TWesthelle@aol.com Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: EBay Postings
I, for one, feel that EBay has been the major source of availability of
American Flyer/AC Gilbert items to the majority of us.
With that said, Id like to voice my opinions of EBay. EBay, like any other
dealer, in any other business, has its unscrupulous people. We have the
right to look at their offerings, chuckle as needed and hit the NEXT KEY. I
am not a captive to anyones listings on EBay, or for that fact, any postings
on our GREAT S GAUGE LIST. When I come across a posting that has no interest
to me, once again, I HIT THE NEXT KEY, and move on to something that
interests me enough to spend my time on.
I LOVE American Flyer, and until EBays inception, Flyer was unavailable to me
here in the great state of Florida. We dont have the clubs, hobby shops, and
train stores that I read of so often in the NorthEast. Im Jealous of those
places, you can go and see, touch and run offerings. So, I just attend any
shows within 3 hours or so, and search EBay, if for nothing else, to see
pictures of so many wonderful things that were created so long ago.
When I see such a piece that has caused so much flack on this list, honestly,
I chuckle, and hit the NEXT KEY. I cant police the world, so I do my very
best to try and protect myself, and I honestly would hope, anyone who
subscribes to this list has enough knowledge or background to see a manoil in
the shape that one on EBay was, to also laugh, hit the NEXT KEY, or if
seriously considering purchasing it, consult others opinions on this list. I
personally dont see the need to engage the seller in a confrontation
Well, I usually dont say much here, but thanks for the ear.
Most importantly, Thanks for this list to offer opinions and get advise, a
GREAT FORUM we have here.

Tom Westhelle
Oviedo, FL
Group: S-Trains Message: 18825 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Get a life, Chris
All this over a car that when I last checked was selling for $6.50!
Let's get some of the facts straight. Paul Yorke suggested
putting "ebay" on any posts so people fed up with this thread could
filter it out. He made this suggestion after receiving complaints.
As far people quitting the list, this lastest ebay thing seems to be
the straw that broke the camel's back. Comments like "who appointed
Zizzo ebay policeman" were forwarded to me. I , myself have no
intentions of quitting the list. I also buy and sell on ebay. I
have no problem with discussing ebay on the list. The fact remains
Chris, that you intentionally baited the seller with your comments.
You also try to bully anyone on this list who does not agree with
you. All this over a $6.50 car!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18826 From: Robert Wight Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Web Page Update
Fellow model Railroaders;
I have received some private e-mails to let them
know when some better pictures get put on. Well Chris Zizzo took the time to
do this for me and they are up. So instead of notifying you all individually
this should work. Im having a great time with this layout and have added
some improvments since this last photos. Behind the Hobo village I added a
rock cliff then the ell train then a mountain.Compaired to some layouts
mines not so great. But its fun anyway and it is a work in progress. I
fiqure when I get everything done it will be time to move again. We are
looking at Kansas or New Mexico. I still want Australia.
Thanks.
Happy Railroading
Bob Wight



Check Out My American Flyer Trains
http://www.boomspeed.com/bobgaylord/


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 18827 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Caig Update
Several of you have asked about the Caig project.

The order is in and paid for. I await shipment any day.

We had 38 respondents, 36 cans. The two people who got their checks back
are disappointed and perhaps, if everyone is happy with this order, we may
order something else again. Let's see how this finishes up first.

As soon as I receive the goods, I will post it and start shipping.

Any day now . . . any day.

Chris Zizzo

Like my Mama always said:
"Like is like a box of mints on e-Bay. You just never know what you're
gonna get."
Group: S-Trains Message: 18828 From: David Dewey Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: An important note to all on s-trains
Recently the postings here have taken a bit of a "nasty" turn. I don't
believe that that was the intention of any of the posters, but a result of
the nature of any e-mail forum. When we read a post, we cannot see nor hear
the poster, so we might miss the usual clues that something is being said
"tongue in cheek" or with a silly grin, or even dead-pan (my wife had a long
time figuring out when my Dad was telling a "funny" as he is a master of the
dead-pan). Also, these trains are our passion (face it guys/gals, some of
really should see Betty Ford about this habit! (note twinkle in eye, this is
a joke)) so we can respond before thinking through what we have typed. I
hope I am typing this in a manner that it is being received as a
light-hearted attempt to get everyone to step back a minute, take a few deep
breaths and see that, despite the many conflicts going on in the world, the
S-trains world is a nice place to be.
So let us all take a short breather, smell the smoke fluid and enjoy
each others company here. This is a very diverse group, joined only by our
love for S size trains, and I think of many of you as my friends, although
I've never met you, nor would I recognize your voice, or your face! (OTOH, I
have that same problem with members of my own family-hmmm.)
Gotta go to work, y'all have a great day!
S'incerely,
David Dewey
Group: S-Trains Message: 18829 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Re Web Page Update
Nice job on everything, keep the updates coming.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18830 From: roy inman Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Ebay
Seems to me that ebay is a microcosm of the internet: unregulated (or
virtually so), and a free-for-all for buyers and sellers, exhibiting the
very best to the very worst in human behavior.
As an occasional buyer of old stuff, including AF, I always check the
various Greenberg, TM or listings in the various mags, or whatever to get
some idea of value.
Those who pay some inflated sum for anything on ebay either (1) have more
money than sense, (2) are not serious collectors/operators and maybe that
piece is the only one that person will ever acquire-just for display in home
or office, or (3) just flat don't care enough to go to the trouble to
research and/or don't know where to start.
In any event, IMHO, the old tried and true maxim, let the buyer beware,
should be the guiding principle behind all transactions, especially cyber
space ones.
Is it my business, or Chris's or anyone else's to try and inform the
uninformed?
For me, no, but I would not presume to tell anyone else how to do things.
The only problem comes when this well-meaning attempt to inform distracts
the S list from S trains.
Respectfully submitted,
Roy Inman
Group: S-Trains Message: 18831 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: eBay Reason Number 4
Add reason number 4 to reasons why people (are perceived by others to)
pay too much for eBay items:
Simple supply and demand. I live in Atlanta and can get just about
anything at a reasonable price due to the supply and demand aspects
of close to 4 million people in close proximity of each other. I
have friends on the high plains of Kansas who see less than 1000
people all year long, I see several thousand people everyday on my
drive to work. One friend was setting up a home network and needed a
router, so he ordered one and paid $150 delivered - two weeks later.
I can hop in the car, drive to Walmart and get the same router in 10
minutes for $75. So was he foolish to pay twice what I pay? I don't
think so.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18832 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: eBay, eBay, eBay, eBay, eBay, eBay, eBay
Hi,

Concerning the postings of eBay on the S-list: Being a Flyer enthusiast through and through, I personally get nothing from the postings of scale on this list and I delete them, but I don't complain 'cuz others get a lot from it. I would hope everyone would have the same tolerance with eBay postings. OBTW, from now on, please put the word 'scale' in the subject line for me if your note is regarding some facet of scale. Belated April Fools!!! I'm just kidding!!!

Jokingly,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18833 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Re: eBay Reason Number 4
I have to agree with the Gator. You can see it on a smaller scale when gas
is 1.50 a gallon on one side of the street & 1.75 on the other & both are
selling gas. But, I can't see myself running across the street & pointing out
their choice error(IMO). On the same note in a super market I have told &
been told of a less costly choice on an item that I didn't see. (BUD in the
30 pack for the same $ as the 12 pack I had in hand) No fist fights, no name
calling, no thought of the other person having a superior intellect, just a
kind gesture. Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18834 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: eBay, religion and politics just to controversial to discuss?
Oh Boy! Is this discussion fun to read or what? I hate to even post, because I am helping to keep this "non-train" discussion going. We are not even discussing a train here, but the whole thing started over a toy car... :-)

I believe that in order to survive as a train buyer on eBay, you need to consider the context. Who is it that is selling the train? Is it a TCA member (who should be knowledgable), or a Gen X person who has an attic find, and really doesn't know what a toy train is? I found the "ex-mint" thing to be "almost" humorous. I took it that the seller was saying that the item once was mint, but no longer was. Judging from the picture, I would have to agree that at no time in recent history, has that item been mint. :-) A picture is worth 1000 words, as the old saying goes, and I can usually determine from decent photos if the item is really mint, or only good+. (Just wish some of the eBay photos were larger, and clearer)

I have to say I really hate the mint discription. I almost never use it myself. Unless the item is brand new, in original perfect condition, never opened packaging, then it in my humble opinion is not mint, but only at best, Like New. Not that Like New is a bad thing! :-)

Several years ago, I learned that the written word is easily mis-understood. You don't have the advantage of hearing the tone of the person's voice, seeing their facial expression or their body language, etc. Things are easily mis-understood, and taken the wrong way. An extra degree of politeness and diplomacy is required to reduce the chance of misunderstandings. (Though when people start to get upset their meanings are crystal clear!) For instance, my question to you, about your eBay item, may for instance be seen by you as a criticism, requiring a shot back. Then, we are off and running.

I personally love eBay, but won't take up your time defending it. I would say that almost any topic that brings people out of the woodwork and gets them to post, is a good one. But I get the feeling that some people here might be to the point of sending "unsubscribe" emails to Paul Yorke, and that isn't a good thing. We don't want that... There are not enough of us S gauge guys as it is, without losing any along the way...

My dearly departed Grandmother always told me, you shouldn't discuss the weather, religion or politics, because they are just too controversial. (I never understood the weather part?) I guess if she were still around, she might add eBay to that list.

Having now added my contribution to the s-trains noise level, is anyone out there going to York? Every time I go to York, I keep thinking about how much cheaper the item I am looking at would be on eBay. :-) I still keep going though, and I am starting to get real excited about the upcoming meet!

If you see a guy at York, wearing an All Aboard Sets Club lanyard around his neck. Say hello, it may be me!

Thanks for reading, Chuck

--

eBay myflyertrains@... - TCA# 99-50024

Personal Web Site - http://myflyertrains.com
Kris Model Trains Home - http://krismodeltrains.org
The All Aboard Sets Club - http://allaboardsetsclub.org
Group: S-Trains Message: 18835 From: Donald Abrams Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Re: Post Office Insurance (oxymoron)?
Sooooooo. If it's damaged I should say they Lost the Item?

Don (;-> ! ! !

> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:16:32 -0800 (PST)
> From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...>
> Subject: Re: POST OFFICE INS.
>
> --- anormal1@... wrote:
> > Just a note about P.O. Insurance. The PO tells me that the ins.
> > that you buy from them is no longer valid as far as DAMAGE. It only
> covers LOSS of the item.
>
> Sounds like an April fools joke.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
> http://greetings.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18836 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Re: Post Office Insurance (oxymoron)?
YES........My ex wife lost the diamond from her ring a long time
ago.....When I checked on the Insurance and I called them to report it they
asked what happened? I told them "MY WIFE LOST THE STONE FROM HER RING" I
heard a SIGH on the other end.....IT WASN"T COVERED BECAUSE THE STONE WAS
LOST.....IF I WOULD HAVE SAID " MY WIFE LOST HER RING" IT WOULD HAVE BEEN
COVERED!!!!!! So yes if its damaged....its lost!!!!BOB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald Abrams" <donabrams@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 6:54 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Post Office Insurance (oxymoron)?


> Sooooooo. If it's damaged I should say they Lost the Item?
>
> Don (;-> ! ! !
>
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:16:32 -0800 (PST)
> > From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...>
> > Subject: Re: POST OFFICE INS.
> >
> > --- anormal1@... wrote:
> > > Just a note about P.O. Insurance. The PO tells me that the ins.
> > > that you buy from them is no longer valid as far as DAMAGE. It only
> > covers LOSS of the item.
> >
> > Sounds like an April fools joke.
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
> > http://greetings.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18837 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Re: Post Office Insurance (oxymoron)?
Hi,

Well, in a sense, if it is damaged enuf, it IS lost - lost to the owner in that it can't be used, appreciated or transferred in ownership with any value. Same as a car that is totaled. That car is lost to the owner.

Regards,
Tim

Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html
----- Original Message -----
From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com ; Donald Abrams
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: Post Office Insurance (oxymoron)?


YES........My ex wife lost the diamond from her ring a long time
ago.....When I checked on the Insurance and I called them to report it they
asked what happened? I told them "MY WIFE LOST THE STONE FROM HER RING" I
heard a SIGH on the other end.....IT WASN"T COVERED BECAUSE THE STONE WAS
LOST.....IF I WOULD HAVE SAID " MY WIFE LOST HER RING" IT WOULD HAVE BEEN
COVERED!!!!!! So yes if its damaged....its lost!!!!BOB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald Abrams" <donabrams@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 6:54 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Post Office Insurance (oxymoron)?


> Sooooooo. If it's damaged I should say they Lost the Item?
>
> Don (;-> ! ! !
>
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:16:32 -0800 (PST)
> > From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...>
> > Subject: Re: POST OFFICE INS.
> >
> > --- anormal1@... wrote:
> > > Just a note about P.O. Insurance. The PO tells me that the ins.
> > > that you buy from them is no longer valid as far as DAMAGE. It only
> > covers LOSS of the item.
> >
> > Sounds like an April fools joke.
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18838 From: Paul Yorke Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Cincinnati in Motion
I am planning a trip to 'Cincinnati in Motion' exibit, on July31th 2001
to shoot some pictures and video. This is the day the NASG convention is
starting, and the real reason I will be in Ohio.

I am looking for anyone interested in helping with this endevor. You
don't have to make a commitment, just looking for intereted parties. I
plan on being at the Museum for about 90 minutes. (Unless I am invited
back 'after hours')

I plan on driving to Cleveland on Aug 1st.

Please contact me 'off list'

Paul Yorke
Group: S-Trains Message: 18839 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Re: eBay, religion and politics just to controversial to discuss?
Hi Chuck,

I know what you mean about being misunderstood. A little while back I sent a note to the SnS guys with what I thought was my objective review of can motors after experimenting with one. I think they took it as a scathing attack. Oh well. These things happen.

Regards,
Tim

Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Harrington
Cc: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 5:45 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] eBay, religion and politics just to controversial to discuss?


Oh Boy! Is this discussion fun to read or what? I hate to even post, because I am helping to keep this "non-train" discussion going. We are not even discussing a train here, but the whole thing started over a toy car... :-)

I believe that in order to survive as a train buyer on eBay, you need to consider the context. Who is it that is selling the train? Is it a TCA member (who should be knowledgeable), or a Gen X person who has an attic find, and really doesn't know what a toy train is? I found the "ex-mint" thing to be "almost" humorous. I took it that the seller was saying that the item once was mint, but no longer was. Judging from the picture, I would have to agree that at no time in recent history, has that item been mint. :-) A picture is worth 1000 words, as the old saying goes, and I can usually determine from decent photos if the item is really mint, or only good+. (Just wish some of the eBay photos were larger, and clearer)

I have to say I really hate the mint description. I almost never use it myself. Unless the item is brand new, in original perfect condition, never opened packaging, then it in my humble opinion is not mint, but only at best, Like New. Not that Like New is a bad thing! :-)

Several years ago, I learned that the written word is easily mis-understood. You don't have the advantage of hearing the tone of the person's voice, seeing their facial expression or their body language, etc. Things are easily mis-understood, and taken the wrong way. An extra degree of politeness and diplomacy is required to reduce the chance of misunderstandings. (Though when people start to get upset their meanings are crystal clear!) For instance, my question to you, about your eBay item, may for instance be seen by you as a criticism, requiring a shot back. Then, we are off and running.

I personally love eBay, but won't take up your time defending it. I would say that almost any topic that brings people out of the woodwork and gets them to post, is a good one. But I get the feeling that some people here might be to the point of sending "unsubscribe" emails to Paul Yorke, and that isn't a good thing. We don't want that... There are not enough of us S gauge guys as it is, without losing any along the way...

My dearly departed Grandmother always told me, you shouldn't discuss the weather, religion or politics, because they are just too controversial. (I never understood the weather part?) I guess if she were still around, she might add eBay to that list.

Having now added my contribution to the s-trains noise level, is anyone out there going to York? Every time I go to York, I keep thinking about how much cheaper the item I am looking at would be on eBay. :-) I still keep going though, and I am starting to get real excited about the upcoming meet!

If you see a guy at York, wearing an All Aboard Sets Club lanyard around his neck. Say hello, it may be me!

Thanks for reading, Chuck

--

eBay myflyertrains@... - TCA# 99-50024

Personal Web Site - http://myflyertrains.com
Kris Model Trains Home - http://krismodeltrains.org
The All Aboard Sets Club - http://allaboardsetsclub.org





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Group: S-Trains Message: 18840 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: PO INS (non E-Bay)
Hi Talked to the PO claims person. Who pulled out a phone book size book of
rules. If it is marked FRAGILE you are out of luck. No $ . If by their rule
it is fragile you are out of luck. If it is $50&under the claims person at
that office can & most likely pay the claim (if not marked fragile) If over
$50.01 you must let them take it & ship it to ST. Louis & it will be
determined there as to getting your $$ back, good luck was what I heard. More
later on their definition of FRAGILE. I have to run right now but will post
it for you guys later. Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18841 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Re: eBay, religion and politics just to controversial to discuss?
The stories about York are probably true, but are the exception rather
than the rule. I got to one car trunk a couple of minutes late, just in
time to see an entire card table of flyer rollting stock just sold, no
piece above 10 bucks... That was at one of the pre-meet shows, not the
main event. Sometimes us S types do OK, when one of the O guys sells a
piece because he does not know the value of what he has. My wife picked
up a LN copy of Greenberg Vol. 2 S gauge book off a table of
over-priced American Flyer. The seller hurridly blurted out that it was
$35. I quickly got the money out! All in all, you will be amazed at the
prices. Most of them, make eBay look cheap, though many people will
bargain. There are good deals, but you have to search for them, and be a
bit lucky. The day (Friday) goes very fast. The show is huge, and even
if you try and keep moving, you run out of time, out of energy, and
perhaps out of money!

Regarding being an old guy, the York train show is nothing but old guys!
And a few ladies. You will see almost no-body under the age of 40. It is
sad, and I fear for the future of this toy train hobby.

--

eBay myflyertrains@... - TCA# 99-50024

Personal Web Site - http://myflyertrains.com
Kris Model Trains Home - http://krismodeltrains.org
The All Aboard Sets Club - http://allaboardsetsclub.org
Group: S-Trains Message: 18842 From: af21115 Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Re: Post Office Insurance (oxymoron)?
Oxy something. Very ironic.... this is cut and pasted from the USPS
web page. Note the description for insurance......

Certificate of Mailing — receipt showing evidence of mailing.
Certified Mail — mailing receipt with delivery record maintained
by Postal Service.
Collect on Delivery (COD) — collect payment on merchandise.
Delivery Confirmation™ — verify date and time of delivery online.
Insured Mail — insurance against loss or damage.
Merchandise Return — provides postage-paid return labels for
merchandise.
Return Receipt for Merchandise — automatic signed receipt of
delivery.
Registered Mail — maximum protection and security for valuables.
Restricted Delivery — deliver to a specific addressee or
addressee's agent.
Return Receipt — automatic signed receipt of delivery.
Signature Confirmation™ — signature proof of delivery upon demand.
Special Handling — required for parcels with unusual contents.
Special Service Labels — placement instructions.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18843 From: af21115 Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Re: Post Office Insurance (oxymoron)?
This was under the claims section on the USPS web site, and how to
make a claim.... seems damaged is just fine in a claim.?

Step 3 - Proof of Damage or Loss

Provide proof that the article was lost or damaged.

If the article was damaged or if some or all of the contents were
missing, take
the article, box, wrapper, and all packing materials to the post
office
immediately.

Do not return the package to the sender without first showing it to
postal
officials at the addressee's end.

If the article was lost, submit proof of the loss. This is not
required for COD
or Express Mail.

The Postal Service accepts any of the following as proof of loss:

a. A letter or statement from the addressee, dated at least 30 days
(15
days for registered mail) after the date the article was mailed,
stating that
the addressee did not receive the article. The statement, or a copy
of it, must
be attached to the claim.

b. A claim form (see step 4) completed by the addressee indicating
that the
article was not received must be signed and returned to the sender.

c. A statement from the post office of address (the addressee's post
office) stating that a delivery record is not on file. To obtain such
a
statement, send a written request asking for proof of delivery to the
post
office of address with a check or money order for $6.60. The $6.60
charge is
reimbursed if the claim is paid. Include names and addresses of the
sender and
addressee; insured, Express Mail, or register number; and date of
mailing.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18844 From: mlmarmer Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Famous Toy Car (EBAY!!!)
The auction for that very well know toy truck is over and here is the results.

7 bidders, final bid $11.00. Did not meet reserve.

So it is still available. Get those bids in for the next showing of this now famous toy truck on Ebay. One of a kind!

Better get a Earl Shive paint job! $29.95 also!! O:)

Mike Marmer
Germantown, Maryland MD home of the NCAA Champions MD Terrapins after all these years!!!!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18845 From: Scott Holm Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Re: eBay humor
--- Chuck Harrington <myflyertrains@...> wrote:

> A picture is worth 1000 words, as the old saying goes, and I can
usually determine from decent photos if the item is really mint, or
only good+. (Just wish some of the eBay photos were larger, and
clearer)

You want large clear pictures? Check this one out:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1717036054

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18846 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Re: Famous Toy Car (EBAY!!!)
That car value has increased based on the fact it got so much attention.
If that car was in the same room with a clean coupe at a convention I think
the junky one will get the most attention. Everyone will want to see the car that caused so much discussion.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 18847 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: POST OFFICE CLAIMS
This is under OTHER CLAIMS NOT PAID FOR( I won't list them all)

i. Loss caused by delay in the mail
Sub title CONTENTS

e. Articles whose fragile nature prevented their safe carriage in the mail,
regardless of packaging (This was highlighted for me)

I asked who made the decision as to what is fragile answer: "Anything that
can break" So I asked" If I mailed a brick that was packaged properly for
safe transport & a Postal Employee drops it off a 20 story building it would
not be covered if I checked the box Fragile or had that written on the box.
The answer was it would not be replaced or paid for. Unless the value of the
brick was under $50.00 & at the discretion of the local Postmaster. If the
value was over $50.01 it would be shipped to St. Louis, MO to get a decision
from the head of claims. Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18848 From: Don Thompson Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Re: eBay, religion and politics just to controversial to discuss?
Dear Chuck,
I remember going to the York TCA meets in the mid 70's. Most AF guys were under
30. There was one hall and no reserved table (that's right, you could only have
one). The doors opened, and you ran for a table, put your name on the card and
unloaded your stuff. It was a lot of fun back then (still is). Robin would sell
our AF parts while I would look around for good buys. Butch Kiss, (with the cute
wife) Phil from Basking Ridge (I think), Harry Gordon with more AF parts, Al Bennet
with his AF dry transfers, Dan Olson went with us a few times, Bruce Manson (he
hasn't changed a bit), Walt and Sally D., Merrill from Queens, Mike Newcomer from
York, Rich and Kathy Malhame, Dallas Gutacher before Dallee....... Boy have things
changed. But even then, you could not find a hotel or motel room within 20 miles.
Don

Chuck Harrington wrote:

> Regarding being an old guy, the York train show is nothing but old guys!
> And a few ladies. You will see almost no-body under the age of 40. It is
> sad, and I fear for the future of this toy train hobby.

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 18849 From: dadaw56 Date: 4/2/2002
Subject: Chat
Greetings,

I am currently on chat, if anyone would like to join me. Took 20
minutes to get through and several routes to find it. Don't know if
I'll get back, but thought I'd post this as it is lonely there at the
moment.

Tuesday evening, 9 something PM.

Bill Trefts
Group: S-Trains Message: 18850 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Get a life, Chris
Hello All,
Sorry to those who agree with Chris on this matter, but I find myself in
total agreement with Ken. I will say that I felt a slight twinge of
embarrassment when I read the sellers updated description mentioning
S-Trains, giving the impression that a whole group or at least bona-fide
members of that group were harrassing him. I personally feel that Paul
should be asked before floating the name of his group around on
situations that may cause controversy, but that's just my opinion and I
could be wrong, but to me it gave the appearance that a group of
train-nuts were hassling with a guy over a descriptive term, even tho he
clarified it in his next line that he was no expert and to check the
picture which was crystal clear and made the grading of this item
obvious to the most casual observer. To take issue with such a pitty
flaw in terms over a low end item makes S-Trains appear to be a bunch of
nit-picking snobs. Once again this is just my opinion. I was wondering
if perhaps some actual improprities were made by some of our members
that contacted this man so I spent a little time bouncing around eBay in
their rules section and found some that I was wondering might apply.
HARRASSMENT: The most serious cases seem to require profanity, but
there was a spot for OTHER, however, I skipped it when I spotted:
TRANSACTION INTERFERENCE: Basically warning others by e-mail away from
an auction. I do wonder about this one.
Let me change the tone at this point to bring up a couple of responses
Chris made to Ken. In one letter he states: "In one case, we saved the
buyer $200.00 on a mis-represented diesel. On two other occassions we
have gotten abusive clods thrown off eBay permanently." Good work
Chris, for this you should be commended.
In a later e-mail from Chris to Ken is the following question: "You
find it is low class to take low-lifes and cheats to task for their
actions?" No I don't Chris and I agree for purposes of clarity it is
proper to question when in doubt. So in the spirit of a quest for
clarity let me quote from one of your earlier posts to this list:
"Bought a PT Cruiser. Actually I never BID. He started it at
$19,500.00. No bids at that price, I e-mailed him and after some
haggling got the car for $18,750.00 stopping the auction." I wonder how
eBay was paid for their services due to the fact the auction was
prematurely stopped??
I am sure that everything was purely above board, because I read also
from the rules of eBay the following: FEE AVOIDANCE: 1) Using member
contact info obtained from eBay or using eBay feature to offer to sell
any listed item outside of eBay. 2) Cancelling a listing to sell the
item to anyone who has contacted the seller through eBay or become aware
of the item through eBay.
BUYING OFFENSES: Contacting a seller and offering to purchase the item
outside of eBay. Hope you don't mind clearing this up for me Chris, I
have been a buyer on eBay, but as of yet have not sold, just trying to
understand the rules.

Oh Boy Trains! .................. Herky 1950
Obie Bell
Group: S-Trains Message: 18851 From: Paul Yorke Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Back to trains - Trainmaster
Here is some text and picture from Jerry.
Eye candy...
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/trainmaster/trainmaster.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 18852 From: M.McConnell Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Pictures of the Spiral Hill RR
Late last month several members of the South Jersey S Gaugers paid a visit
to Frank Titman's Spiral Hill Railroad. The Spiral Hill has been featured
in several magazines, but seeing it in person is the only way to really
enjoy it. Frank is a very gracious host and is always willing to share his
knowledge of S gauge. We've posted some pictures on our club WEB site of
Frank's layout. I made my first attempt at a panoramic picture while I was
visiting. It's not exactly perfect, but I think it does give you an idea of
the Spiral Hill RR.

You can take a peak by visiting the SJSG WEB site at:
http://www.trainweb.org/sjsg and clicking through to the main menu. Then
click on the button marked "Club Events". It's the second item on the list.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18853 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: WARNING "eBay"? Scam
Several days ago, I received an email titled "Reinstatement
Consideration" from "Safeharbor@..." The letter indicated that my
account info was incorrect and/or fraudulent. It then directed me to a
web site via a link (the longest address I have ever seen) to verify,
confirm and update my info. This link had all the appearances of an
eBay page. It not only requested the normal info you would expect but
also asked (required) very sensitive info such as mothers maiden name,
PIN #, complete CC card info including customer service #, complete
checking info including bank name, routing #, acct. #, DL#. DOB, and on
an on.
I became a "little" suspicious and contacted eBay. They replied that
they had nothing to do with this request for information, that they have
other similar reports, and that they are investigating the matter.
Although this is an email about eBay and not trains, I felt it was
important to alert the group to this scam that is currently going on.
Gene
Group: S-Trains Message: 18854 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: WARNING "eBay"? Scam
Thanks! I appreciate the heads-up.

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Eugene Steffan
To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 8:53 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] WARNING "eBay"? Scam


Several days ago, I received an email titled "Reinstatement
Consideration" from "Safeharbor@..." The letter indicated that my
account info was incorrect and/or fraudulent. It then directed me to a
web site via a link (the longest address I have ever seen) to verify,
confirm and update my info. This link had all the appearances of an
eBay page. It not only requested the normal info you would expect but
also asked (required) very sensitive info such as mothers maiden name,
PIN #, complete CC card info including customer service #, complete
checking info including bank name, routing #, acct. #, DL#. DOB, and on
an on.
I became a "little" suspicious and contacted eBay. They replied that
they had nothing to do with this request for information, that they have
other similar reports, and that they are investigating the matter.
Although this is an email about eBay and not trains, I felt it was
important to alert the group to this scam that is currently going on.
Gene


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18855 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Don Thompson
Don's post about York in the 70's brought back memories. I first met
Don in the blue hall and even then he talked about producing S gauge
trains. It was a great time for American Flyer collectors. A lot of
Lionel guys were practically giving away that "Flyer junk". There
were always a couple of Flyer guys who had tons of mint rare items.
I remember Jerry Sienkiewicz having the 24045 MEC boxcar and the
24068 Planters Peanut boxcar. I think he bought the MEC from Dave
Garrigues for huge bucks but don't quote me on that. My table was
next to his and my jaw dropped when he came back with that. Thanks
for reminding me how much fun it was back then Don!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18856 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Get a life, Chris
First off, sorry to all for the double posting. I accidentally hit send as
I was about to type a reply to Mr. Bell and thus re-posted his note.

I will take Mr. Bells rather serious tone and reply to his items one at a
time. I had planned no further posts on this matter, because most of the
responses have been fairly inane and harmless. Since Mr. Bell is actually
accusing me of improprieties in business dealings, I will respond.

In my original note to the seller, I mentioned the S-trains list as the
place where I heard about the auction for that little Manoil coupe. In
fact, that was true. I was not "policing" e-Bay. You guys do that. Every
time I have jumped in and spoken with a seller over an inconsistency in his
auction, it has been following a discussion about it on this list. Members
here complain to each other about stuff that doesn't look right on e-Bay. I
write the seller. I usually mention that the auction has been discussed by
members of the S-trains group. This serves to broaden the base for the
seller and make him realize that more than a single individual has noticed
what he is up to. We are a loose confederation of like minded hobbyists.
S-trains is not a club or organization in any traditional sense. I don't
need anyone's permission to say that I have discussed or will continue to
discuss something on the list. This list is not even moderated. If this
were the strictly moderated Toytrains mail list, where the very much
organized TCA is the sponsor, you might be right. We are not an arm of any
organization, not even NASG. That some other members of this list decided
to write this seller is their own business. If sufficient numbers of them
wrote him to the point that it might be considered harassing it would still
not be "harassment" under the law because no organized attempt was made to
attack this guy. I did not organize a posse. The people who wrote him were
already talking about him and his auction. All I did was write him and then
receive his ridiculous and totally over-the-top reply.

Transaction interference or Auction interference is the act of contacting
buyers who appear in the bidder's list of a given auction and warning them
away from the sale. Bid siphoning is similar, only you contact the bidders
to offer similar merchandise at a presumably better deal. Telling your
friends that you believe an auction is not worth their time or that you have
reservations about the integrity of the seller is just being a good friend.
Whose side are you on, your friends or some unknown seller? (That's a
rhetorical question. Try to stay off the reply button for a bit longer.)

As to the purchase of my PT Cruiser, let me say that this deal has no
resemblance whatsoever to the Manoil Coupe auction. Further, it is clear to
me that you brought this up to bait me and to challenge my honesty, in spite
of your disclaimer: "I am sure that everything was purely above board." For
this you are so far out of bounds and so clearly over the line that I am
choking down my own bile as I type this reply. But since you put this
before the entire group, I will answer. I responded to a request from the
seller to engage in direct contact. I asked him questions about the car.
He replied to my questions and indicated to me that he had placed the car on
e-Bay but had listed the starting bid too high and was getting only written
responses, no bids. I told him that I was interested but wanted to pay less
than the opening bid. We settled on an amount. Our correspondence
continued for 5 days, during which time not even 1 bid was placed on the
still fully operating auction. Eventually, he ended the auction, the day
before I left for Ohio to pick up the car. I'm certain he paid his listing
fee and whatever other fees may have applied. I have no fees to pay and
would not have, even if the auction went full term. This particular seller
has over 3000 positives in his profile as he is a prolific dealer in gas
station antiquities. I found him to be a deeply religious man and an elder
of his church. He showed me many items related to his church involvement
while I was in his home. This is a man who has paid E-Bay a lot of money in
fees over the years and answers to his own internal voice. I hope that this
satisfies your interest in the proprieties of my dealings here.

It seems to me that a small percentage of this group, and I know you are
small because my inbox is filled with the supportive e-mail of the majority
of names I am familiar with on this list, have chosen to take the side of
the unknown seller in this little group dynamics exercise we have just
witnessed firsthand. Some of you have gone so far as to contact him and
disparage me to him. Others have played junior amateur lawyer and
researched ways to protect his copyright of his ridiculous e-mails. All of
you in this small group have no idea that all of the debate and angry
interchange was caused here when you failed to see the original humor of the
whole business. A note went out to a seller who had no sense of humor and a
chip on both shoulders. He responded ridiculously. Some of you asked for
an end to it, and we ended it. I stopped. I wrote no more. Then the
attacks came. Unsatisfied with a polite rejoinder, each of you lined
squarely up and drew a line in the sand and picked a fight. Then, when I
didn't back down from your fight, you all went screaming for a moderator.

This isn't about a Manoil Coupe for $6.50. It isn't about outsiders. It
isn't about trains. It's about knowing how to play nice together and about
realizing that this world isn't all about you. That includes me, in case
you think I'm lecturing. I'm not. I'm reflecting on what has transpired
here. Now, if you don't mind, I think I'd like to be the one to say that
this thread is done. If you have anything else you just must say, send it
to me off-list.

Thank you,

Chris Zizzo


> Hello All,
> Sorry to those who agree with Chris on this matter, but I find myself in
> total agreement with Ken. I will say that I felt a slight twinge of
> embarrassment when I read the sellers updated description mentioning
> S-Trains, giving the impression that a whole group or at least bona-fide
> members of that group were harrassing him. I personally feel that Paul
> should be asked before floating the name of his group around on
> situations that may cause controversy, but that's just my opinion and I
> could be wrong, but to me it gave the appearance that a group of
> train-nuts were hassling with a guy over a descriptive term, even tho he
> clarified it in his next line that he was no expert and to check the
> picture which was crystal clear and made the grading of this item
> obvious to the most casual observer. To take issue with such a pitty
> flaw in terms over a low end item makes S-Trains appear to be a bunch of
> nit-picking snobs. Once again this is just my opinion. I was wondering
> if perhaps some actual improprities were made by some of our members
> that contacted this man so I spent a little time bouncing around eBay in
> their rules section and found some that I was wondering might apply.
> HARRASSMENT: The most serious cases seem to require profanity, but
> there was a spot for OTHER, however, I skipped it when I spotted:
> TRANSACTION INTERFERENCE: Basically warning others by e-mail away from
> an auction. I do wonder about this one.
> Let me change the tone at this point to bring up a couple of responses
> Chris made to Ken. In one letter he states: "In one case, we saved the
> buyer $200.00 on a mis-represented diesel. On two other occassions we
> have gotten abusive clods thrown off eBay permanently." Good work
> Chris, for this you should be commended.
> In a later e-mail from Chris to Ken is the following question: "You
> find it is low class to take low-lifes and cheats to task for their
> actions?" No I don't Chris and I agree for purposes of clarity it is
> proper to question when in doubt. So in the spirit of a quest for
> clarity let me quote from one of your earlier posts to this list:
> "Bought a PT Cruiser. Actually I never BID. He started it at
> $19,500.00. No bids at that price, I e-mailed him and after some
> haggling got the car for $18,750.00 stopping the auction." I wonder how
> eBay was paid for their services due to the fact the auction was
> prematurely stopped??
> I am sure that everything was purely above board, because I read also
> from the rules of eBay the following: FEE AVOIDANCE: 1) Using member
> contact info obtained from eBay or using eBay feature to offer to sell
> any listed item outside of eBay. 2) Cancelling a listing to sell the
> item to anyone who has contacted the seller through eBay or become aware
> of the item through eBay.
> BUYING OFFENSES: Contacting a seller and offering to purchase the item
> outside of eBay. Hope you don't mind clearing this up for me Chris, I
> have been a buyer on eBay, but as of yet have not sold, just trying to
> understand the rules.
>
> Oh Boy Trains! .................. Herky 1950
> Obie Bell
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18857 From: markdkoenig Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Off Topic - My perspective
Hello all,

I've been a member of this list since September of 2000 and have read
each and every of the 18800 or so posts. For the most part I have
enjoyed the back and forth banter that comes with belonging to such a
large "family". I have really enjoyed the repair help and wealth of
knowledge that this list provides. But lately the threads have left
me pondering whether I want to continue reading the posts. Let me
continue with a short history of how I got into American Flyer
trains.

I began acquiring American Flyer Trains when I moved from my parent's
home in 1990 and received a set that had been bequeathed to me by a
Great Uncle. Apparently he had a large layout in his home that my
brothers and I enjoyed immensely when we were just toddlers. I have
no memories of his layout and no one seems to have any pictures. My
Uncle gave my brothers and I his trains when he passed away and my
parents kept them in storage until I moved out. My brothers had no
interest in trains so I got them all. There were two sets. My
favorite is a freight set headed by a 322 from 1946 with the brass
buttons underneath and SIT. I found a local store that had some
Flyonel and slowly began to add cars to the collection. Now I have
over 250 locomotives and rolling stock, an assortment of Original
Flyer, Flyonel, American Models and S-Helper Service. I have had one
layout, but never got beyond laying and wiring the track before I
moved. My current home just doesn't have the space for a layout and
my other hobby, woodworking.

I went to my first (and only) NASG convention in 1999 when it was in
my home city of St. Paul, MN. Looking back I wish I would have
stayed at the hotel to get the best conference experience I could.
Driving to the events each day around my work schedule made me miss
opportunities to talk with many of the other convention goers. I was
only able to really get to know others at one lunch and the
Dinner/Auction the last night of the Convention. At both meals I
happened to be seated with people who were diehard scale
enthusiasts. I am a Hirailer, and it saddened me to hear them bash
and ridicule anyone who wasn't into the scale side of Flyer.
Needless to say I left the banquet before the auction started. I
know that there are those of you who will say that I should have
stood up for Hirailers, but, even though I had been collecting Flyer
for almost a decade I was, and still am, a novice at things Flyer,
and couldn't think of a way to argue the virtues of Hirail.

Now what's the point of all this you ask? I feel the same about the
S-Trains list today that I did when I left the 1999 NASG convention.
Do I stay and argue what I believe or simply go away. I have no
intention of attacking list members or their beliefs just to make my
point.

I just wish someone out there had a question about a sticky reverse
unit or the best way secure track to roadbed.

By the way, what is the best way to repair the bellows on a SIT smoke
unit? Are replacement bellows available?

Thanks for listening,

"S"incerely,

Mark Koenig
Group: S-Trains Message: 18858 From: David Dewey Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: good WARNING "eBay"? Scam, Thanks!
Eugene has sent us all an excellent "heads-up" THANK YOU!
Ya gotta watch your personal info nowadays, ID theft is becoming more
common.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18859 From: af21115 Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: eBay humor
Now THIS is E-Bay humor.... Can be used to store trains maybe??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=1817914847

Be sure to check out his web page, it gets better... Enjoy!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18860 From: af21115 Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Off Topic - My perspective
Mark, your more on topic than not...(S). Yes, excellent bellows
replacement material is available from most AF parts vendors. I apply
using either Walthers GOO, or Elmers household cement. Both work just
fine.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18861 From: afstrains@aol.com Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1406
In a message dated 4/3/02 10:44:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> For the most part I have
> enjoyed the back and forth banter that comes with belonging to such a
> large "family." I have really enjoyed the repair help and wealth of
> knowledge that this list provides. But lately the threads have left
> me pondering whether I want to continue reading the posts.

Thankyou Mark, I have been deleting a LOT of these postings the past few
months! Due to the bickering and off subject "matter." Is this what you all
really want? Members deleting posts and not bothering to read anything OR is
this supposed to be a forum about S gauge trains? Keep it to the point, keep
it short and for _______'s sake, keep it about the trains. Robin Vanacore



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18862 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Just the facts please!
Chris, You and I were asked privately by Paul Yorke to end this
thread and since you have chosen to ignore his request, I feel it
necessary to respond to your last post. You state "all of you in
this small group have no idea that all of the debate and angry
interchange was caused here when you failed to see the original humor
of the whole business". In you post #18739 you wrote to the seller
and I quote "Here's an idea. Scrape off all the old paint and
repaint it. It will be worth more". Not being able to here the tone
of your voice, I and many others took this to be sarcasm, based on
some of your other writings. Your claim that it was humor is just you
trying to cover you a** I believe. My post #18752 said enough seller
bashing yet you posted in #18770 "I'm a bad boy", so you really
didn't stop as you state. It seems you can't let the facts get in
the way of a good story. I emailed Paul back that I was done posting
on this thread unless you continued it and sure enough, you did!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18863 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Post Office Insurance
Since I go to the post office nearly every day to ship motors and/or videos I
asked them yesterday if the insurance still covers "damage" as well as loss
and was told by the clerk and supervisor that it did indeed still cover
damage. Is it possible that the rules are different from State to State? I
don't think it would be. I collected about a year ago on a 17B transformer
that the seller had carelessly left the handle attached on and of course it
was dropped or something and broke the turret. It took three months but I
collected the full amount it was insured for. Why don't some of you ask your
post office the next time you go in there? It would be interesting to hear
the different opinions (if any).

Steve Blackburn
Group: S-Trains Message: 18864 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Attack of the Can people
In a message dated 04/03/2002 8:44:16 AM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> Subject: Re: eBay, religion and politics just to controversial to discuss?
>
> Hi Chuck,
>
> I know what you mean about being misunderstood. A little while back I sent
> a note to the SnS guys with what I thought was my objective review of can
> motors after experimenting with one. I think they took it as a scathing
> attack. Oh well. These things happen.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
>

Huh? Easy Tim, I saved your letter voicing your objections to the can motor
you bought from us. I think my reply to you will show that we in no way took
your letter to be "a scathing attack" Your reasons for unhappiness and our
reply are below. Maybe you are one of those readers that don't really read
what people write to you. Now that last sentence is the closest thing you
will get as a "scathing attack" from us. Sorry you consider our reply as an
attack....I don't, and I don't think others will either.
OUR CORRESPONDENCE IS BELOW

In a message dated 03/22/2002 1:20:05 PM Mountain Standard Time,
Timboy@... writes:


> Disadvantages:
> 1.) Too noisy
> 2.) Starts with a lurch
> 3.) Stops suddenly when power is cut - no coast
>
Tim,
Thanks for the info. I'll address each concern above.

1.? If it's noisy there must be something wrong with it. They are not noisy
in any of our locos.
2. Will "lurch" on some transformers because the breakover voltage on them is
about 7v. They do not do that on any of our locos. I use a ZW and the
breakover is about 41/2 v. Sam uses DCC. I'm going there too. I have the
units but haven't hooked them up yet because my layout is under
reconstruction.
3. We opted not to put a flywheel on them because we didn't want them to
coast when shut down. If you bring them down slowly to a stop it shouldn't be
objectionable. Our AM Pacific's coast too much and on an emergency shutdown
they always crash.

The second generation models are lower geared and are smoother in all
respects and start with less of a "lurch"

Good luck on the auction. I hope you get your $$ back....
Steve & Sam



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18865 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Off Topic - My perspective
Hi,

I have used black electrical tape to repair a bellows. The idea is to seal it with something flexible. I don't recommend glue, as it may further degrade the bellows material. Another method is to replace the bellows with either an original or repro piston. I did this with great results. If you replace the bellows with a repro piston, my only caveat is you may have to elongate the hole in the piston rod so it doesn't bind on the rotary gear. For my personal insights how to rehab an old smoke unit,
please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: markdkoenig
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 10:40 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Off Topic - My perspective


Hello all,

I've been a member of this list since September of 2000 and have read
each and every of the 18800 or so posts. For the most part I have
enjoyed the back and forth banter that comes with belonging to such a
large "family". I have really enjoyed the repair help and wealth of
knowledge that this list provides. But lately the threads have left
me pondering whether I want to continue reading the posts. Let me
continue with a short history of how I got into American Flyer
trains.

I began acquiring American Flyer Trains when I moved from my parent's
home in 1990 and received a set that had been bequeathed to me by a
Great Uncle. Apparently he had a large layout in his home that my
brothers and I enjoyed immensely when we were just toddlers. I have
no memories of his layout and no one seems to have any pictures. My
Uncle gave my brothers and I his trains when he passed away and my
parents kept them in storage until I moved out. My brothers had no
interest in trains so I got them all. There were two sets. My
favorite is a freight set headed by a 322 from 1946 with the brass
buttons underneath and SIT. I found a local store that had some
Flyonel and slowly began to add cars to the collection. Now I have
over 250 locomotives and rolling stock, an assortment of Original
Flyer, Flyonel, American Models and S-Helper Service. I have had one
layout, but never got beyond laying and wiring the track before I
moved. My current home just doesn't have the space for a layout and
my other hobby, woodworking.

I went to my first (and only) NASG convention in 1999 when it was in
my home city of St. Paul, MN. Looking back I wish I would have
stayed at the hotel to get the best conference experience I could.
Driving to the events each day around my work schedule made me miss
opportunities to talk with many of the other convention goers. I was
only able to really get to know others at one lunch and the
Dinner/Auction the last night of the Convention. At both meals I
happened to be seated with people who were diehard scale
enthusiasts. I am a Hirailer, and it saddened me to hear them bash
and ridicule anyone who wasn't into the scale side of Flyer.
Needless to say I left the banquet before the auction started. I
know that there are those of you who will say that I should have
stood up for Hirailers, but, even though I had been collecting Flyer
for almost a decade I was, and still am, a novice at things Flyer,
and couldn't think of a way to argue the virtues of Hirail.

Now what's the point of all this you ask? I feel the same about the
S-Trains list today that I did when I left the 1999 NASG convention.
Do I stay and argue what I believe or simply go away. I have no
intention of attacking list members or their beliefs just to make my
point.

I just wish someone out there had a question about a sticky reverse
unit or the best way secure track to roadbed.

By the way, what is the best way to repair the bellows on a SIT smoke
unit? Are replacement bellows available?

Thanks for listening,

"S"incerely,

Mark Koenig





S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18866 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Attack of the Can people
Hi,

Thanks for clearing that up.

Bygones?

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: boss31@...
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Attack of the Can people


In a message dated 04/03/2002 8:44:16 AM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> Subject: Re: eBay, religion and politics just to controversial to discuss?
>
> Hi Chuck,
>
> I know what you mean about being misunderstood. A little while back I sent
> a note to the SnS guys with what I thought was my objective review of can
> motors after experimenting with one. I think they took it as a scathing
> attack. Oh well. These things happen.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
>

Huh? Easy Tim, I saved your letter voicing your objections to the can motor
you bought from us. I think my reply to you will show that we in no way took
your letter to be "a scathing attack" Your reasons for unhappiness and our
reply are below. Maybe you are one of those readers that don't really read
what people write to you. Now that last sentence is the closest thing you
will get as a "scathing attack" from us. Sorry you consider our reply as an
attack....I don't, and I don't think others will either.
OUR CORRESPONDENCE IS BELOW

In a message dated 03/22/2002 1:20:05 PM Mountain Standard Time,
Timboy@... writes:


> Disadvantages:
> 1.) Too noisy
> 2.) Starts with a lurch
> 3.) Stops suddenly when power is cut - no coast
>
Tim,
Thanks for the info. I'll address each concern above.

1.? If it's noisy there must be something wrong with it. They are not noisy
in any of our locos.
2. Will "lurch" on some transformers because the breakover voltage on them is
about 7v. They do not do that on any of our locos. I use a ZW and the
breakover is about 41/2 v. Sam uses DCC. I'm going there too. I have the
units but haven't hooked them up yet because my layout is under
reconstruction.
3. We opted not to put a flywheel on them because we didn't want them to
coast when shut down. If you bring them down slowly to a stop it shouldn't be
objectionable. Our AM Pacific's coast too much and on an emergency shutdown
they always crash.

The second generation models are lower geared and are smoother in all
respects and start with less of a "lurch"

Good luck on the auction. I hope you get your $$ back....
Steve & Sam



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18867 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: 322 Hudson question
Hi group, last Christmas I set up my usual flyer loops around the
Christmas tree "for my kids to play with" he he he honestly... and I
tried running basket case 322 Hudson that I resurrected and rebuild
and all it did was hum and buzz in-between the reverse unit clicking
in its positions. The SIT unit ran great but then engine didn't
budge. When bench tested the engine ran like a bat out of hell???
Now, I did notice that some of the tires were a little loose on the
rims, could that be causing a short on the frame?

Thanks,
Fred
Group: S-Trains Message: 18868 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: 322 Hudson question
Hi,

Yes it could. Happened to me. I just used epoxy to reglue the wheels back on. Also, you could have a broken wire inside the insulation on the wires from the tender to the loco, or a bad connection at the male/female jack panel. Hope this helps.

Regards,
Tim

Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html
----- Original Message -----
From: lbdrummer3
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 12:22 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] 322 Hudson question


Hi group, last Christmas I set up my usual flyer loops around the
Christmas tree "for my kids to play with" he he he honestly... and I
tried running basket case 322 Hudson that I resurrected and rebuild
and all it did was hum and buzz in-between the reverse unit clicking
in its positions. The SIT unit ran great but then engine didn't
budge. When bench tested the engine ran like a bat out of hell???
Now, I did notice that some of the tires were a little loose on the
rims, could that be causing a short on the frame?

Thanks,
Fred


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18869 From: nasglibrary Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Mobley Library vacation
All --

The Russell M. Mobley Memorial Library will be closed from April 6
through April 24, 2002 while the Librarian is on vacation.

Dick Karnes, Librarian
Group: S-Trains Message: 18870 From: hcopter52 Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Roadbed-Revisited
Hi All. Someone brought up a good point that reminded me of a
question I wanted to ask the group. Is it necessary to secure roadbed
to the layout and if so, what is the best method? Thanks for all the
help,John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18871 From: Knight, Gene Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: more roadbed
Is anyone using Homabed Roadbed by California Roadbed Company? If so....do you like it etc....

Thanks

Gene
Group: S-Trains Message: 18872 From: Robert H Meyer Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: New member, transformer question Penn 310 loco
Hello List,

I've recently "inherited" my Dad's Am. Flyer train and a few parts. My
uncle wound up getting the transformer as he had a DC loco. Dad's loco is
a model 310 4-6-2 from what I've been able to dig up. I'd like to try to
get it running before his next visit (late June).

My question is...what type/size of transformer would I need to get this
thing running? I'd like to eventually be able to run a few switches (4)
and a couple of other accessories (semaphore and a set of crossing
lights). Any pros or cons for new vs. used? Price range? What was the
original model number for this set?

I couldn't find anything on this in the FAQ section.

What other questions should I be asking?

Thanks in advance,
bob meyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 18873 From: kathy/tom Gerbasi Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: 356 Question
Okay, so call me a dummy, but I just realized that the 365 Silver Bullet Pacific that I bought 15 years ago as a "junker" and have been running happily since then, does not have what the parts diagrams call a "connecting rod" (but what I would call a main rod and crosshead) on either side. I looked in my old catalogs and in photos of other peoples engines, and I don't know how I overlooked them for all these years, but I did.

Anyway, I found a parts dealer who had "connecting rods" and I ordered a pair. Is there any trick to installing them?

As far as I can see, one simply inserts the "crosshead end" into the slots in the "cylinders", removes the hex nut on the middle driver, lifts up the "valve gear", puts on the other end of the "Connecting rod" over that post, replaces the valve gear and then the hex nut. Can it be that simple? Is there something I can do wrong that will make the drivetrain bind up? (If there is, I will probably do it if I am left to my own devices).

Thanks in advance for any help, and feel free to contact me off list if you feel the information I need will not be of interest to the group.

Tom Gerbasi




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18874 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: New member, transformer question Penn 310 loco
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Brown
To: s-trains@... ; Robert H Meyer
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] New member, transformer question Penn 310 loco


Hi,

I've had good luck using 100 watt, 15 volt (#8b) transformers, but I only
run one train per transformer using the block control method. The 100 watt
transformers are only about $25, so that may be a good place for you to
start. Here's the problem, though. Sometimes old switches need more than
15 volts to activate the coil. If that's the case with your switches, maybe
you can arrange your layout to operate them manually unless you know how to
repair them. Also, if you plan on using more than a pair of switches and a
couple accessories that operate continuously, you may want to use two small
transformers, one for the train(s) and one for the accessories.

Regards,
Tim

Please visit my website at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert H Meyer" <rhmeyer1@...>
To: <s-trains@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 2:55 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] New member, transformer question Penn 310 loco


> Hello List,
>
> I've recently "inherited" my Dad's Am. Flyer train and a few parts. My
> uncle wound up getting the transformer as he had a DC loco. Dad's loco is
> a model 310 4-6-2 from what I've been able to dig up. I'd like to try to
> get it running before his next visit (late June).
>
> My question is...what type/size of transformer would I need to get this
> thing running? I'd like to eventually be able to run a few switches (4)
> and a couple of other accessories (semaphore and a set of crossing
> lights). Any pros or cons for new vs. used? Price range? What was the
> original model number for this set?
>
> I couldn't find anything on this in the FAQ section.
>
> What other questions should I be asking?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> bob meyer
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18875 From: David Dewey Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: 322 Hudson question
Fred,
Yep!
S'
David
(OK, for those wondering, a full reply is that: Yes, the loose tire are
probably touching the frame, shorting it out. When gluing tires, the rim
must not protrude inwardly from the wheel center, or it can touch the frame
and cause shorts.)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18876 From: David Dewey Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: 356 Question
Tom,
The only thing I can think of is putting the "piston rod" into the wrong
set of slots, as there are extra slots in the metal stamping. Other than
that, yes, it IS as simple as you suggested.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18877 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: 356 Question
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Brown
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com ; kathy/tom Gerbasi
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] 356 Question


Hi,

Yes, it's about that simple if you do exactly as you have outlined. The
only thing I can see going wrong is if you misalign the other little
ancillary drive rods, then the motor will bind. Do one side at a time.
Unless you use undo force, you shouldn't hurt anything beyond where you
can't figure it out by observation. Sometimes I have to use my finger to
turn the armature while watching the drive wheels so I can see that they
don't bind.

Regards,
Tim

Please visit my web site at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "kathy/tom Gerbasi" <kgerbasi@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 3:09 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] 356 Question


> Okay, so call me a dummy, but I just realized that the 365 Silver Bullet
Pacific that I bought 15 years ago as a "junker" and have been running
happily since then, does not have what the parts diagrams call a "connecting
rod" (but what I would call a main rod and crosshead) on either side. I
looked in my old catalogs and in photos of other peoples engines, and I
don't know how I overlooked them for all these years, but I did.
>
> Anyway, I found a parts dealer who had "connecting rods" and I ordered a
pair. Is there any trick to installing them?
>
> As far as I can see, one simply inserts the "crosshead end" into the slots
in the "cylinders", removes the hex nut on the middle driver, lifts up the
"valve gear", puts on the other end of the "Connecting rod" over that post,
replaces the valve gear and then the hex nut. Can it be that simple? Is
there something I can do wrong that will make the drivetrain bind up? (If
there is, I will probably do it if I am left to my own devices).
>
> Thanks in advance for any help, and feel free to contact me off list if
you feel the information I need will not be of interest to the group.
>
> Tom Gerbasi
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18878 From: Kimball, Bob (CH) Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1406
Your first panorama is awesome. How do you do that?


> Message: 20
> Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:56:44 -0500
> From: "M.McConnell" <mmcconn@...>
> Subject: Pictures of the Spiral Hill RR
>
> Late last month several members of the South Jersey S Gaugers paid a visit
>
> to Frank Titman's Spiral Hill Railroad. The Spiral Hill has been featured
> in several magazines, but seeing it in person is the only way to really
> enjoy it. Frank is a very gracious host and is always willing to share his
>
> knowledge of S gauge. We've posted some pictures on our club WEB site of
> Frank's layout. I made my first attempt at a panoramic picture while I was
>
> visiting. It's not exactly perfect, but I think it does give you an idea
> of
> the Spiral Hill RR.
>
> You can take a peak by visiting the SJSG WEB site at:
> http://www.trainweb.org/sjsg and clicking through to the main menu. Then
> click on the button marked "Club Events". It's the second item on the
> list.
>
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18879 From: Chuck Smith Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: New member, transformer question Penn 310 loco
I use a dedicated 8b 100W for my Gargraves with NJ switch machines and
AM powered switches. 100W is plenty for a switch or 2 being thrown at
once. I avoid loading that transformer down with any lights or
accessories because I want the whole 100W available for snappy action
when I throw a switch. The switches obviously pull a LOT of current
when operating. The use of an 8b is not important, use any transformer
with 100W.
My Flyer switches are sharing another transformer with other
accessories. They don't seem to draw as much current.
On an action layout we take to shows for kids to operate I found my 9xx
log dump car needs a transformer of more than 50 watts to work
reliably. Same deal as switches, the solenoids in action cars can also
be current suckers.

Tim Brown wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim Brown
> To: s-trains@... ; Robert H Meyer
> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 3:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] New member, transformer question Penn 310 loco
>
> Hi,
>
> I've had good luck using 100 watt, 15 volt (#8b) transformers, but I only
> run one train per transformer using the block control method. The 100 watt
> transformers are only about $25, so that may be a good place for you to
> start. Here's the problem, though. Sometimes old switches need more than
> 15 volts to activate the coil. If that's the case with your switches, maybe
> you can arrange your layout to operate them manually unless you know how to
> repair them. Also, if you plan on using more than a pair of switches and a
> couple accessories that operate continuously, you may want to use two small
> transformers, one for the train(s) and one for the accessories.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
> Please visit my website at:
> http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert H Meyer" <rhmeyer1@...>
> To: <s-trains@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 2:55 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] New member, transformer question Penn 310 loco
>
> > Hello List,
> >
> > I've recently "inherited" my Dad's Am. Flyer train and a few parts. My
> > uncle wound up getting the transformer as he had a DC loco. Dad's loco is
> > a model 310 4-6-2 from what I've been able to dig up. I'd like to try to
> > get it running before his next visit (late June).
> >
> > My question is...what type/size of transformer would I need to get this
> > thing running? I'd like to eventually be able to run a few switches (4)
> > and a couple of other accessories (semaphore and a set of crossing
> > lights). Any pros or cons for new vs. used? Price range? What was the
> > original model number for this set?
> >
> > I couldn't find anything on this in the FAQ section.
> >
> > What other questions should I be asking?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > bob meyer
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18880 From: Chuck Smith Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: New member, transformer question Penn 310 loco
Your cheapest solution is any transformer of 75-100 watts. I have a
couple of 310s and they require less than about 50 watts to run.
Single transformers are the least expensive way to buy wattage. One of
my 310 came in a set with a 75W transformer in 1946 and the transformer
is still going strong. Every light can add 5-10W. Switches are
momentary devices so only need wattage when operating. If you find you
eventually overload a 100W transformer just add another one.
>
> Hello List,
>
> I've recently "inherited" my Dad's Am. Flyer train and a few parts. My
> uncle wound up getting the transformer as he had a DC loco. Dad's loco is
> a model 310 4-6-2 from what I've been able to dig up. I'd like to try to
> get it running before his next visit (late June).
>
> My question is...what type/size of transformer would I need to get this
> thing running? I'd like to eventually be able to run a few switches (4)
> and a couple of other accessories (semaphore and a set of crossing
> lights). Any pros or cons for new vs. used? Price range? What was the
> original model number for this set?
>
> I couldn't find anything on this in the FAQ section.
>
> What other questions should I be asking?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> bob meyer
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18881 From: Chuck Smith Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Roadbed-Revisited
Assuming you mean homasote or cork- I have used both small nails or
adhesive. Both methods work. If you think you ever want to change the
track plan use nails.
For AF rubber the track nails hold it.

hcopter52 wrote:
>
> Hi All. Someone brought up a good point that reminded me of a
> question I wanted to ask the group. Is it necessary to secure roadbed
> to the layout and if so, what is the best method? Thanks for all the
> help,John B.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18882 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: 356 rods
There may be two sets of slots for the rod ends at the same height but
different widths. Use the innermost slots -- the outer slots are for, or
are a relict of, the O gauge prewar version.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18883 From: Scott Holm Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: 356 Question
You do need a piston rod spacer (PA7237) on each post to keep the connecting
rod out at the end of the post. These aren't needed when you don't have the
connecting rod, so you may be missing these too.

----- Original Message -----
From: "kathy/tom Gerbasi" <kgerbasi@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 2:09 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] 356 Question


> Okay, so call me a dummy, but I just realized that the 365 Silver Bullet
Pacific that I bought 15 years ago as a "junker" and have been running
happily since then, does not have what the parts diagrams call a "connecting
rod" (but what I would call a main rod and crosshead) on either side. I
looked in my old catalogs and in photos of other peoples engines, and I
don't know how I overlooked them for all these years, but I did.
>
> Anyway, I found a parts dealer who had "connecting rods" and I ordered a
pair. Is there any trick to installing them?
>
> As far as I can see, one simply inserts the "crosshead end" into the slots
in the "cylinders", removes the hex nut on the middle driver, lifts up the
"valve gear", puts on the other end of the "Connecting rod" over that post,
replaces the valve gear and then the hex nut. Can it be that simple? Is
there something I can do wrong that will make the drivetrain bind up? (If
there is, I will probably do it if I am left to my own devices).
>
> Thanks in advance for any help, and feel free to contact me off list if
you feel the information I need will not be of interest to the group.
>
> Tom Gerbasi
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18884 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: 322 question
It is very possible that loose rims are causing a short circuit. In that
case, you should see sparking at the drive wheels.

However, If there is a short cxircuit, then electricity will not go thru
the motor but thru the short, and the motor should not buzz much.

One thing that could be happening is gear train jamming that only occurs
when the loco's weight is on the drive wheels. This could be caused by
badly worn axle holes in the chassis, badly worn armature bearing front
rear or both, or wear on the boss at the short end of the armature. This
last would cause the armature to ride too far back toward the brush
bracket, and can be corrected by adding a washer.

The problem of an engine that runs great on the workbench but won't budge
on the track is actually a common one. There are myriad causes, most easy
to find, but not all. I had one Hudson that drove me nuts for two years --
it would run gorgeously if I held it up in the air, but not move on the
track. Nothing worked. Finally I discovered that the loco body was
shorting (connecting) the two field leads -- when I picked it uop this
connection was broken and it ran great. A small piece of electrical tape
up inside the body fixed it.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18885 From: Gale Hall Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Insurance
Evening all,

I was told the same thing as Steve, insurance hasn't changed, it covers loss and damage....as per the post office in Rogers, Arkansas 2 APR 02.

gale hall


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18886 From: Victor Bereskin Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Cincinnati in Motion
Cincinnati in motion is a beautiful exhibit, but very difficult to
photograph. The display is surrounded by acrylic panels that preclude the
use of flash and the ambient light is low and constantly changing (to
simulate day to night to day transitions.) Bring a tripod and plan on long
exposures.

If you haven't seen the exhibit before, take a look at the streetcars on the
main downtown area. Most are custom models of Cincinnati Car Company
vehicles from before the 1920's. These are items that you won't see
elsewhere. They have a restored body of one of these streetcars a bit
further on in the museum, so you can compare the model with the real thing.

> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 19:52:18 -0500
> From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...>
> Subject: Cincinnati in Motion
>
> I am planning a trip to 'Cincinnati in Motion' exibit, on July31th 2001
> to shoot some pictures and video. This is the day the NASG convention is
> starting, and the real reason I will be in Ohio.
>
> I am looking for anyone interested in helping with this endevor. You
> don't have to make a commitment, just looking for intereted parties. I
> plan on being at the Museum for about 90 minutes. (Unless I am invited
> back 'after hours')
>
> I plan on driving to Cleveland on Aug 1st.
>
> Please contact me 'off list'
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18887 From: lou342ac Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Off Topic - My perspective
Mark,
Non-train question but I couldn't help but notice your name. Any
relation to Mark Koenig who played for the New York Yankees in the
late twenties and early thirties?
Lou

--- In S-Trains@y..., "markdkoenig" <mdgineok@a...> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I've been a member of this list since September of 2000 and have
read
> each and every of the 18800 or so posts. For the most part I have
> enjoyed the back and forth banter that comes with belonging to such
a
> large "family". I have really enjoyed the repair help and wealth
of
> knowledge that this list provides. But lately the threads have left
> me pondering whether I want to continue reading the posts. Let me
> continue with a short history of how I got into American Flyer
> trains.
>
> I began acquiring American Flyer Trains when I moved from my
parent's
> home in 1990 and received a set that had been bequeathed to me by a
> Great Uncle. Apparently he had a large layout in his home that my
> brothers and I enjoyed immensely when we were just toddlers. I
have
> no memories of his layout and no one seems to have any pictures.
My
> Uncle gave my brothers and I his trains when he passed away and my
> parents kept them in storage until I moved out. My brothers had no
> interest in trains so I got them all. There were two sets. My
> favorite is a freight set headed by a 322 from 1946 with the brass
> buttons underneath and SIT. I found a local store that had some
> Flyonel and slowly began to add cars to the collection. Now I have
> over 250 locomotives and rolling stock, an assortment of Original
> Flyer, Flyonel, American Models and S-Helper Service. I have had
one
> layout, but never got beyond laying and wiring the track before I
> moved. My current home just doesn't have the space for a layout
and
> my other hobby, woodworking.
>
> I went to my first (and only) NASG convention in 1999 when it was
in
> my home city of St. Paul, MN. Looking back I wish I would have
> stayed at the hotel to get the best conference experience I could.
> Driving to the events each day around my work schedule made me miss
> opportunities to talk with many of the other convention goers. I
was
> only able to really get to know others at one lunch and the
> Dinner/Auction the last night of the Convention. At both meals I
> happened to be seated with people who were diehard scale
> enthusiasts. I am a Hirailer, and it saddened me to hear them bash
> and ridicule anyone who wasn't into the scale side of Flyer.
> Needless to say I left the banquet before the auction started. I
> know that there are those of you who will say that I should have
> stood up for Hirailers, but, even though I had been collecting
Flyer
> for almost a decade I was, and still am, a novice at things Flyer,
> and couldn't think of a way to argue the virtues of Hirail.
>
> Now what's the point of all this you ask? I feel the same about
the
> S-Trains list today that I did when I left the 1999 NASG
convention.
> Do I stay and argue what I believe or simply go away. I have no
> intention of attacking list members or their beliefs just to make
my
> point.
>
> I just wish someone out there had a question about a sticky reverse
> unit or the best way secure track to roadbed.
>
> By the way, what is the best way to repair the bellows on a SIT
smoke
> unit? Are replacement bellows available?
>
> Thanks for listening,
>
> "S"incerely,
>
> Mark Koenig
Group: S-Trains Message: 18888 From: Rick Evans Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: The subject of subjects of posts....
I believe that whether it be ebay or whatever topic that may arise,...I think
that it should be stated in the subject line. (Paul's suggestion). No matter how you read the
posts,...at the site, digest, individual emails, etc.,...you should be able to delete or skip over any
topic that doesn't interest you.


Rick.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18889 From: dmsapadin Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Flyer by Lionel with Railsounds Question
Hi:

I picked up a B unit with railsounds but can't figure out how you
make the bell come on or turn off. It seems to do it all by itself on
rare occasions but I can't figure out why! If anyone out there knows
anything about this, I'd appreciate any information.

Thanks!

David Sapadn
Group: S-Trains Message: 18890 From: Gale Hall Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: trades
Evening all,

Anyone out there interested in enlarging their Illinois Central reefer fleet, I have nine cars, 800's 923's and five digit, two are in blue and yellow boxes, all good condition, most never run.

Or how about three NP 947's One real good body, side frames have been epoxied on one side of both trucks, 2nd trucks are good body is lesser quality and 3 has had some brown paint added to the roof...

Rio Grande AF white 800 Cookie Box and a L Flyer Rio Grande silver and orange boxcar....800 very good to excellent and the silver and orange new in box.

L Flyer SCL Boxcar, pale yellow new in box

Peabody triple hopper, has had Pikemaster trucks added back to it, good, very good shape...

Western Maryland hopper excellent, no box trade for 3 S Scale America Western Maryland 70 ton triple hoppers.

1955 McClintock Dell paperback on American Flyer, 1st Edition....make offer

Except for the WM hopper which is a fixed trade, I am interested in reworkable twin or triple AF hopper shells, no trucks needed, or Marnold control panel parts, or Miller Diesel or scale power truck parts......or Lindberg's Mini Lindy Vegas, need three any color, useable not basket cases.

Contact off list

gale hall


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18891 From: Chuck Smith Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer by Lionel with Railsounds Question
You need two railsounds buttons, hooked up with the same color lead
connected to each other, and the other color leads connected one to the
transformer and the other to the track. With a single button, the horn
or bell will operate with the engine facing one way. The other sound
will operate with it facing the other way.

My NP B unit came with one railsounds button. The other railsounds
button came with the NP set to work the hokey horn. When using the B
unit you turn off the hokey horn that comes with the set and use the one
in the B unit.

The occasional dinging (or tooting) without a button push is due to
arcing on slightly dirty track or wheels. It turns out arcs act like DC
and can actuate sound.

dmsapadin wrote:
>
> Hi:
>
> I picked up a B unit with railsounds but can't figure out how you
> make the bell come on or turn off. It seems to do it all by itself on
> rare occasions but I can't figure out why! If anyone out there knows
> anything about this, I'd appreciate any information.
>
> Thanks!
>
> David Sapadn
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18892 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer by Lionel with Railsounds Question
The bell and horn used in the railsounds are activated by superimposing a DC
voltage on the AC track voltage. One polarity makes the horn blow and the
opposite polarity starts the bell. The bell unlike the horn is latched on
by one activation and turned off by sending the bell command a second time.
Dirt or arcing on the rails can fool the bell circuit into turning on.
Interrupting some of the AC cycles just right makes them look like DC.

Using two horn activation buttons one wired in reverse will work as a
Horn/Bell control. One as the bell and the other the horn button. There was
a two button one that was made for these units. The is the down side to
Railsound system, Depending on which way the train is set on the tracks the
horn and bell function are reversed.

Carl


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.tuveson.com
Check out the New AF Loco Geared Drive Kit !
Buy it on line with PayPal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-----Original Message-----
From: dmsapadin [mailto:david@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 10:33 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Flyer by Lionel with Railsounds Question


Hi:

I picked up a B unit with railsounds but can't figure out how you
make the bell come on or turn off. It seems to do it all by itself on
rare occasions but I can't figure out why! If anyone out there knows
anything about this, I'd appreciate any information.

Thanks!

David Sapadn


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18893 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer by Lionel with Railsounds Question
Hi David,
the part # from a "L" dealer is #6-5906. It is a Sound
Activation Button. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18894 From: joe messinger Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: Bellows Repair
Thought you might be interested in this tip for s.i.t. bellows repair that
was given to me by Bob Foster from Medford, NJ.:

"Use a 1"x 4 1/2" strip of material cut from an old umbrella to replace the
worn bellows on a smoke-in tender unit. Use contact cement or medium
viscosity (not the thin glue) to attach the material."

I have tried it and it works great! One old umbrella will make enough
strips to repair all the worn out s.i.t. bellows East of the Mississippi!
Well, maybe the Potomac. . .

Joe Messinger


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 18895 From: Gale Hall Date: 4/3/2002
Subject: trades SIT-REP
Ahhh good morning now,

The reefers and the book appear to be spoken for.

gale


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18896 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Re: Bellows Repair
Just an idea. I have not tried it but it sounds like it might work.
There is a product called "Liquidlectrotape" and liquid neoprene. Both seem to be
similar items. The first is usually available at home improv., auto, and marine
supply stores. The other is available at dive shops. They are a thick black liquid
used to coat wiring splices or repair wet suits. They dry to a flexible, rubbery
texture with good adhesive quality.
Just a thought.
Gene

joe messinger wrote:

> Thought you might be interested in this tip for s.i.t. bellows repair that
> was given to me by Bob Foster from Medford, NJ.:
>
> "Use a 1"x 4 1/2" strip of material cut from an old umbrella to replace the
> worn bellows on a smoke-in tender unit. Use contact cement or medium
> viscosity (not the thin glue) to attach the material."
>
> I have tried it and it works great! One old umbrella will make enough
> strips to repair all the worn out s.i.t. bellows East of the Mississippi!
> Well, maybe the Potomac. . .
>
> Joe Messinger
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18897 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Re: Bellows Repair
Hi,

That's it! That's the material I've been looking for. I knew there was a common material out there somewhere for bellows repair.

Thank you!
Tim

Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html

----- Original Message -----
From: joe messinger
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 12:11 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Bellows Repair



Thought you might be interested in this tip for s.i.t. bellows repair that
was given to me by Bob Foster from Medford, NJ.:

"Use a 1"x 4 1/2" strip of material cut from an old umbrella to replace the
worn bellows on a smoke-in tender unit. Use contact cement or medium
viscosity (not the thin glue) to attach the material."

I have tried it and it works great! One old umbrella will make enough
strips to repair all the worn out s.i.t. bellows East of the Mississippi!
Well, maybe the Potomac. . .

Joe Messinger


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18898 From: Gale Hall Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: trades SITREP
Morning all,

All the items have deals in the works right now, thanks very much for your interest. Have a great day.

gale hall


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18899 From: splitdorf@1bigred.com Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Re: Bellows Repair
What a brilliant idea! I have a trashed umbrella, all I need is a SIT unit in need of repair ;-)

Steve Blancard
Crustyfour

----- Original Message -----
From: joe messinger
Sent: 4/4/2002 12:11:04 AM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Bellows Repair

>
> Thought you might be interested in this tip for s.i.t. bellows repair that
> was given to me by Bob Foster from Medford, NJ.:
>
> "Use a 1"x 4 1/2" strip of material cut from an old umbrella to replace the
> worn bellows on a smoke-in tender unit. Use contact cement or medium
> viscosity (not the thin glue) to attach the material."
>
> I have tried it and it works great! One old umbrella will make enough
> strips to repair all the worn out s.i.t. bellows East of the Mississippi!
> Well, maybe the Potomac. . .
>
> Joe Messinger
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
>
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>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18900 From: markdkoenig Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Thanks
Thank you to all who replied to the list or privately with words of
encouragent and tips on repairing the bellows. Now I just need to
work up the courage to actually make the repair.

"S"incerely,

Mark Koenig
Group: S-Trains Message: 18901 From: joelgerlach Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: With Regards To Ebay
caveat emptor
Group: S-Trains Message: 18902 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Bellows Material - SIT/Player Pianos
Friends,

I feel that in our pursuit of "finding something to work" for replacement
materials, we're missing the boat. When I was a teenager, I had the
opportunity to rebuild my grandmothers' player piano. (Hi, David.) At
the time, I knew nothing of bellows cloth, tubing, etc, or where I could
get them. I used plastic trash bags, hard plastic tubing, whatever I
could find. Never worked. Now, later in life, I find myself in the
player piano business. (More electronic than pneumatic). But I've found
the sources and successfully finished that piano.

Umbrella material is not "airtight", but resists water flow by the tight
weave.

The rubber stuff, though flexible, in all likelihood, will dry too stiff.
There had been a product available to "re coat player pneumatics". It
was a convertible top paint. Worked for a while, but the material
underneath it was dead.

Winding down to my point: Use the appropriate material. It is readily
available from many parts suppliers. It has been tried and proven. Some
of it is modern materials, other is original style material.

Point being: Tinkering is fun, saving a buck is, too. But isn't our
time worth something? How many other projects can we complete by using
the right material the first time and not having to do it again, and
again.

BTW: In recent years Classic Toy Trains had an article on recovering the
bellows and shows a jig you can make to keep the spacing even. Only
thing silly I saw in the article is they used latex kitchen gloves. (You
know, the kind you wash dishes in to avoid damaging your nails.)

Hope this helps.

Bill Trefts

________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18903 From: rodgers_carl Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Bellows Repair
Yes a great idea, and the next time it rains you can combine your
hobby with practicality, and wear the engine over your head.

The moto for the S-trains group should be "We re-invent the wheel
every day".
Group: S-Trains Message: 18904 From: David Dewey Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Re: Bellows Material - SIT/Player Pianos
And from the other Piano Technician on this list. . .
I agree w/Bill. Player piano cloth is designed to be airtight, flexible,
long-lasting, AND! Glue-able. Do I need to stress that last item? I suspect
that it is what the "usual suppliers" sell; I don't know because I use my
own supply of AEolian pneumatic cloth left over from a job I never finished
(my own player piano, which still works--sort of--so why fix it??). Since
this subject seems to come up quite a bit, I'll have to do a Fixin' Flyer on
it, but first I'll need a few SIT units requiring the repair!
A few quick hints. Use a spacer block to hold the two halves the proper
distance (See, that's why I need the units, I don't have one needing
disassembly to measure that for you-and I've lost my "jig"--it was "just a
stick."). Put the seam in the middle of the top surface, not on the corner!.
Pre-fold the cloth after the glue has dried--this "sets" the folds, and they
usually stay that way. Don't use too much glue, or it will "squish out" the
sides and make a hard ridge where the cloth bends, causing pre-mature
failure.
Hope that doesn't scare y'all away; it's not really hard, just detailed,
work. BTW, I use Hot Hide Glue because it sets fast, and you can iron it to
get the cloth down really tight--more important in player work than in our
SIT units. Also, I already have it on hand, including the glue pot to heat
it (although you can do that with a pan of boiling water on the stove). You
will probably want to use something more common, like Elmer's. Don't use it
for the seam though, too stiff! (Bill, what do you recommend, I've lost my
notes on a flexible glue for the seams).
Here's smoke in your eye!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18905 From: Robert Wight Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Please help with a Lionel question.
Gang;
Since the price of our toys seem to be going very high I'am redoing the
collectors insurance. The problem I have is that a while back i picked up a
lionel set. It is a complete set called the ALLEGHENY. I know some of you
collect these also and you might know the value of this set. I have gotten
nowhere on trying to get this info. I would trade this set also. I have no
idea what I was thinking when i got it. I thought it takes alot of room for
S gauge. UFFDA. It takes some room for that "O". This is a nice set though.
Like new. If you can help i would appreciate it. Thanks.
Bob Wight


Check Out My American Flyer Trains
http://www.boomspeed.com/bobgaylord/


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 18906 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Flyer operation question
I have a question for the group. I haven't looked into this much, so
the answer may be simple, but I am here at work thinking about building
my train layout (and getting paid for it no less), so I thought I would
ask.

Is there a way, using AF switches, to make several sidings that are
electrically dead until the switch is thrown to open that siding (kind
of like what you would have with a turntable operation)? Then I could
use these sidings as staging areas for additional trains.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO
Group: S-Trains Message: 18907 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: SIT repair
A jig is totally unnecessary for replacing bellows fabric, if you cut the
piece of fabric to the correct size and use it as a guide. The correct
size is 4 13/.16" x 1 1/16". The seam should go on the bottom, where a
double thickness may be helpful if the bag scrapes the bottom. That's the
way Gilbert did it. Good flexible cements: Pliobond, Contact Cement.
Repair small areas with DURO Plastic Rubber. Don't forget to rub a little
talc on the bellows so glued or plastc rubbered areas won't stick to each
other.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18908 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer operation question
Hi,

Gilbert was way ahead of you on this one. There is a metal slide button on the top of the switch. Just slide it up to the '2 train operation' position and it will do as you want (if it is working).

Regards,
Tim

Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.
To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 11:57 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Flyer operation question


I have a question for the group. I haven't looked into this much, so
the answer may be simple, but I am here at work thinking about building
my train layout (and getting paid for it no less), so I thought I would
ask.

Is there a way, using AF switches, to make several sidings that are
electrically dead until the switch is thrown to open that siding (kind
of like what you would have with a turntable operation)? Then I could
use these sidings as staging areas for additional trains.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18909 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Off topic player piano was "bellows repair"
Could the player piano repair guys contact me off the list. I need a
rebuilder in Southern California.
Sorry for going off topic but I couldn't resist.

Fred
Group: S-Trains Message: 18910 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer operation question
So that is what that switch is for! I've seen them and the switch worked the same for directing the train where I wanted it to go no matter which way it was pushed, but that's as far as I got. Will
have to read up on the operation. Thanks.

Roger


Tim Brown wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Gilbert was way ahead of you on this one. There is a metal slide button on the top of the switch. Just slide it up to the '2 train operation' position and it will do as you want (if it is working).
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
> Please visit my web page at:
> http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.
> To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 11:57 AM
> Subject: [S-Trains] Flyer operation question
>
> I have a question for the group. I haven't looked into this much, so
> the answer may be simple, but I am here at work thinking about building
> my train layout (and getting paid for it no less), so I thought I would
> ask.
>
> Is there a way, using AF switches, to make several sidings that are
> electrically dead until the switch is thrown to open that siding (kind
> of like what you would have with a turntable operation)? Then I could
> use these sidings as staging areas for additional trains.
>
> Roger Petrella
> Franktown, CO
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18911 From: hcopter52 Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer operation question
Roger, you can go one step further. If you wire track power between
two of these switches, then you will only have power to that
section/area that the frog is thrown to. Glad someone at AF was
thinking!! I have done this and now I can use larger sections of
layout to stage trains and also to use as main lines. Have Fun,John B.


--- In S-Trains@y..., "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@i...> wrote:
> So that is what that switch is for! I've seen them and the switch
worked the same for directing the train where I wanted it to go no
matter which way it was pushed, but that's as far as I got. Will
> have to read up on the operation. Thanks.
>
> Roger
>
>
> Tim Brown wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Gilbert was way ahead of you on this one. There is a metal slide
button on the top of the switch. Just slide it up to the '2 train
operation' position and it will do as you want (if it is working).
> >
> > Regards,
> > Tim
> >
> > Please visit my web page at:
> > http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.
> > To: s-trains@y...
> > Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 11:57 AM
> > Subject: [S-Trains] Flyer operation question
> >
> > I have a question for the group. I haven't looked into this
much, so
> > the answer may be simple, but I am here at work thinking about
building
> > my train layout (and getting paid for it no less), so I thought
I would
> > ask.
> >
> > Is there a way, using AF switches, to make several sidings that
are
> > electrically dead until the switch is thrown to open that
siding (kind
> > of like what you would have with a turntable operation)? Then
I could
> > use these sidings as staging areas for additional trains.
> >
> > Roger Petrella
> > Franktown, CO
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-
unsubscribe@Y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-
unsubscribe@Y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18912 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: 2 train oper (was Flyer operation question)
The "2 train oper" or train stopping feature of Flyer's switches is a very
handy feature that can be used in a number of interesting ways. Stub
sidings and double ended sidings that you can lock off trains on are only
two of them. There are more. You can use a Flyer switch to create an
electrical dead zone anywhere on your layout if the switch is thrown a
certain way.

The simplest example of this would be to place a fiber pin in each of the
rails connected to the two short inner switch rails but about 3 track
sections from, a switch. With this arrangement, any train approaching the
switch when the switch was thrown against it would encounter an
electrically dead rail three track sections from the switch, and would stop
in time to avoid a derailment at the switch. As soon as the switch was
thrown, the dead zone would become powered, and the train could proceed.
This is not something that is necessary for each switch, but does come in
handy sometimes at certain places in your layout.

A more complex example would be two concentric ovals connected by two
facing switches. If you put a fiber pin in each rail connected to the
short straight rail of each switch, about one train length from the switch,
this is what would happen: when both switches were thrown to the curved
position so that a train could pass from loop to loop, a dead section would
be created in EACH loop in the rail between the switch and the fiber pin.
This could be very handy if you had a train in each oval and wanted them to
change ovals.

Then you combine this feature with other Flyer features. For instance, if
you had a semaphore or sam on the outer oval here's what you could do:
Stop the train in the outer loop in the dead zone. Run the inner loop
train onto the outer loop and stop it at the semaphore. Run the outer loop
train onto the inner loop. Then free the train held by the semaphore. The
trains have now exchanged loops. In fact, you wouldn't even need the dead
zone in the inner loop, though it might come in handy for other moves.

Or, you could do it another way.. If you had the above setup with one more
switch added to the inner loop to make a stub siding one train length long,
you could wiire THIS switch with a fiber pin so it created a dead zone in
the inner loop, plus the siding is another dead zone when the switch is
thrown against it. Then you could throw this switch toward the siding,
trapping the inner loop train in its dead zone. Then you could throw the
paired switches to curved, run the outer loop train directly into the
siding, throw the siding switch against it, which would free the inner loop
train, and run it onto the outer loop. Throw the paired switches back to
straight, let the train onthe inner loop siding back out of the siding, and
your trains have exchanged loops.

The main point of the 2 train oper feature is to avoid messy block section
wiring. If the switches are used properly, there's rarely any need for it.
The train stopping capability of Flyer's switches is one of the unique
advantages of Flyer railroading. It allows you to do a lot more than just
run your trains around and around! But you have to figure out how it works
to use it effectively. The key is that the switch cuts off power to which
ever of the two short inner rails it is thrown against, if the button is in
the "2 train oper" position.

Then, by implanting roller switches to power relays and rails, Gilbert's
concept can be taken even further with a varitey of automatic circuits.....

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18913 From: Bruce Papky Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Softening lichen...
About a year ago, I seem to recall a discussion here about techniques
used to soften dry, brittle lichen. I read it with interest at the
time, but of course, now that I would like to restore my layout's lichen
after winter's decidedly dry, damaging air, I can't remember exactly
what to do.

Would those who know, please re-post lichen-softening ideas? Thanks.

Bruce.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18914 From: Steve Blancard Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Re: 2 train oper (was Flyer operation question)
jarcho@... wrote:

> The "2 train oper" or train stopping feature of Flyer's switches is a very
> handy feature that can be used in a number of interesting ways.

snip

Tom,

Thanks for the great description of ways to use these switches. My head is still
spinning trying to follow the different possibilities. I've printed it out for
future reference.

Thanks,
Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 18915 From: Roger Delthony Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Roadbed Revisited
I use Flyer rubber roadbed on a painted plywood table. It is not
fastened down, and is fine - doesn't go anywhere.

Roger Delthony
Group: S-Trains Message: 18916 From: Chuck Smith Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Re: Softening lichen...
From the old days I think I remember treating it with glycerin.

Bruce Papky wrote:
>
> About a year ago, I seem to recall a discussion here about techniques
> used to soften dry, brittle lichen. I read it with interest at the
> time, but of course, now that I would like to restore my layout's lichen
> after winter's decidedly dry, damaging air, I can't remember exactly
> what to do.
>
> Would those who know, please re-post lichen-softening ideas? Thanks.
>
> Bruce.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 18917 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Re: 2 train oper (was Flyer operation question)
Tom,

Sure is great to have someone like you on this list. You sure are a source of a
wealth of good info. Thanks to you and the others who replied to my question on the
switches.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


jarcho@... wrote:

> The "2 train oper" or train stopping feature of Flyer's switches is a very
> handy feature that can be used in a number of interesting ways. Stub
> sidings and double ended sidings that you can lock off trains on are only
> two of them. There are more. You can use a Flyer switch to create an
> electrical dead zone anywhere on your layout if the switch is thrown a
> certain way.
>
> The simplest example of this would be to place a fiber pin in each of the
> rails connected to the two short inner switch rails but about 3 track
> sections from, a switch. With this arrangement, any train approaching the
> switch when the switch was thrown against it would encounter an
> electrically dead rail three track sections from the switch, and would stop
> in time to avoid a derailment at the switch. As soon as the switch was
> thrown, the dead zone would become powered, and the train could proceed.
> This is not something that is necessary for each switch, but does come in
> handy sometimes at certain places in your layout.
>
> A more complex example would be two concentric ovals connected by two
> facing switches. If you put a fiber pin in each rail connected to the
> short straight rail of each switch, about one train length from the switch,
> this is what would happen: when both switches were thrown to the curved
> position so that a train could pass from loop to loop, a dead section would
> be created in EACH loop in the rail between the switch and the fiber pin.
> This could be very handy if you had a train in each oval and wanted them to
> change ovals.
>
> Then you combine this feature with other Flyer features. For instance, if
> you had a semaphore or sam on the outer oval here's what you could do:
> Stop the train in the outer loop in the dead zone. Run the inner loop
> train onto the outer loop and stop it at the semaphore. Run the outer loop
> train onto the inner loop. Then free the train held by the semaphore. The
> trains have now exchanged loops. In fact, you wouldn't even need the dead
> zone in the inner loop, though it might come in handy for other moves.
>
> Or, you could do it another way.. If you had the above setup with one more
> switch added to the inner loop to make a stub siding one train length long,
> you could wiire THIS switch with a fiber pin so it created a dead zone in
> the inner loop, plus the siding is another dead zone when the switch is
> thrown against it. Then you could throw this switch toward the siding,
> trapping the inner loop train in its dead zone. Then you could throw the
> paired switches to curved, run the outer loop train directly into the
> siding, throw the siding switch against it, which would free the inner loop
> train, and run it onto the outer loop. Throw the paired switches back to
> straight, let the train onthe inner loop siding back out of the siding, and
> your trains have exchanged loops.
>
> The main point of the 2 train oper feature is to avoid messy block section
> wiring. If the switches are used properly, there's rarely any need for it.
> The train stopping capability of Flyer's switches is one of the unique
> advantages of Flyer railroading. It allows you to do a lot more than just
> run your trains around and around! But you have to figure out how it works
> to use it effectively. The key is that the switch cuts off power to which
> ever of the two short inner rails it is thrown against, if the button is in
> the "2 train oper" position.
>
> Then, by implanting roller switches to power relays and rails, Gilbert's
> concept can be taken even further with a varitey of automatic circuits.....
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 18918 From: Lee Johnson Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Re: Softening lichen...
on 4/4/02 2:19 PM, Bruce Papky at bpapky@... wrote:

> About a year ago, I seem to recall a discussion here about techniques
> used to soften dry, brittle lichen.

Bruce,

I believe the following is what you are referring to and looking for. The
following is from the January 1960 issue of Model Railroader.

"First you need a source for raw lichen. .... Then you need the "pickling"
solution and coloring. Here's the formula MR's staff recently used in
processing six bales:

1 part glycerin
1 part acetone
2 parts alcohol

You can buy the glycerin at drugstores, the acetone and alcohol at a
hardware or paint store. The quantities you need depend on how much lichen
you're going to process. A practical minimum if you're starting off
processing just one bale would probably be one quart per part in the above
formula. This would give you a gallon of liquid, and you'd need that much
to contain a bale of lichen."

If you would like a copy of the 3 page article, please contact me off list
with your address.

Lee
Group: S-Trains Message: 18919 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: 2 train oper
Here is material I posted in January. Since we are dealing with the topic
again now, thought I would re-post it, with minor additions. Flyer
switches are something you can have some fun with.

These switches have two rails at the point end and four rails at the frog
end. What we usually refer to as the "frog" of a Flyer switch is actually
the points. So to avoid confusion, let's say that there are two rails at
one end and four rails at the other. Of those four rails, the two outer
ones are long and the two inner ones are short.

The switches cut off power to whichever of the two inner short rails on the
four rail end the switch is thrown against. One of these is straight and
one is curved. This assumes that power is fed to the track from the two
rail or point side of the switch.

The little "2 train oper" buttons override this feature when they are NOT
set at "2 train oper"..

The button on the right handed switch overrides the cutoff of power to its
short curved rail when the switch is in the straight position.

The button on the left handed switch overrides the cutoff of power to its
short straight rail when the switch is in the curved position.

This can be useful to know when the rail involved is the base post rail and
you want to operate action cars on a siding.

The track power switching capability of Flyer switches makes it much easier
to stop some trains while others run

Tom Jarcho.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18920 From: Jerry Riechert Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: [Fwd: RE: ToyTrains.info Feedback Form]
I submitted a request to add NASG as a registered club on the
http://www.toytrains.info/ web site. I'm a NASG member but I'm sure someone more
knowledgable than me can answer Dan's questions. Any takers?

Jerry


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: ToyTrains.info Feedback Form
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 23:48:25 -0500
From: "ToyTrains.info Webmaster" <ToyTrains_Webmaster@...>
Reply-To: <ToyTrains_Webmaster@...>
Organization: ToyTrains.info Webmaster
To: "'Jerry Riechert'" <riechert@...>

Hi Jerry,
I have had members of some other clubs also asking about this and I am
always interested in these suggestions. Do you know about how many
members NASG has? Do they have a printed membership directory that each
member receives when they join?
Thanks,
Dan Pfeffer

> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 10:40 AM
>
> Have you considered adding NASG as a club that can register
> on your site?
Group: S-Trains Message: 18921 From: David Dewey Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: Re: SIT repair
Well, I hate to disagree with Tom J. AND ACG, but the seam is the weakest
link in the bellows, and I'd rather have it on top where it won't get
rubbed, and won't soak up smoke fluid or whatever oozes around the base.
Also, it's easier to get to in case you need to re-glue it.
The jig is just a block of wood that holds the spacing and helps you
keep the ends square with each other. For that reason, I think it is
useful, and I've done a LOT of player piano small bellows using such "jigs."
Since they are so simple, I think one is worth the little effort.
S
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18922 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/4/2002
Subject: SIT repair
David is quite correct -- there are always several ways to do these kinds
of things and one is as good as another. I remember last year we came up
with at least seven different ways to repair a loose drive wheel -- and all
of them work!

The point is this: replacing the bellows fabric is not difficult, and it's
a fun project. Go for it!

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18923 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 4/5/2002
Subject: Getting old
I know we are all getting old, but if we let
everything bother us this list will be very hard to
read in the future. Jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18924 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 4/5/2002
Subject: New service from S-'n-S Trains
We are happy to announce a new service we are providing for you Flyer
affectionados. Send us your old, tired, balky, reverse units and we will
return a like new one to you for $14.95. It will have a smooth, highly
polished drum, new finger boards and a pawl that works properly. Usually in
less than 48 HR turn around. This does NOT include units that have the coil
burned out. We fix those too, but at a different price. If you are a
buyer/user of our can motors we will send your reverse unit back to you
complete with our special rectifier installed for AC use. It will be
completely wired ready to install in your Loco. This Service will cost
$20.95. You will also be responsible for shipping of $4.

On another note, our Diesel can motor project has taken a positive turn and
is getting closer to completion.

Thanks for all your support on our projects.

Steve & Sam
Group: S-Trains Message: 18925 From: Michael Christensen Date: 4/5/2002
Subject: New electronic " Talking Station" device
Thought I would share with the list what looks like a
great new alternate to the TALKING STATION. This
device optically reconnizes up to 16 trains and can
make seperate station announcements for each one. Also
can control stopping at station. Retail will be
$99.99. Made for 0 scale, it works with S gauge also.
It is manufactured by Z-Stuff for trains.

DZ-1200

These 'O' scale products work very well for 'S' gauge
too!


Here are the details. See their Zstuff.net website



DZ-1200 Passenger Station Announcement System

The DZ-1200 Passenger Station Announcement System
allows you to record your own train, city, and station
names for use with your unique layout. The system
senses two tracks and makes the appropriate
announcement for up to 16 trains at each station. The
system also senses train direction and adjusts the
announcement to indicate the correct departure and
arrival cities. Speaker and sensors included.
The announcements are easy to set up - the system
talks you through it!

Key Benefits
Works with all O-Gauge and S-Gauge trains, even if
they don't have sound
Senses barcodes attached to baggage or passenger cars

Allows announcements to be specific to your layout
Stops train at station with manual or selectable
release
Handles thru and dead-end tracks
Speed sensitive - fast trains are not stopped





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Group: S-Trains Message: 18926 From: dmsapadin Date: 4/5/2002
Subject: Looking for Flyer Ladders
Hi:

I am looking for some of the little metal ladders that attached to
the diesel units. (PA's) Does anyone know where you can find those,
and how to attach them? It looks like the orignals use some sort of
small rivet.

Thanks!

David Sapadin
Group: S-Trains Message: 18927 From: tsbikes Date: 4/5/2002
Subject: Tom Jarcho-thanks!
One of these days I am going to do a search of this list on the name
"Tom Jarcho". When I print out the results I will have a mighty fine
operating/repair manual.
Thanks Tom!!

Jim Grimes
tsbikes@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 18928 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/5/2002
Subject: ANGEL HAIR
Hi,
Anyone know where I can get ANGEL HAIR For smoke units on line & in
bulk(a large package, not 3,000lbs)Thanks in advance, Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18929 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/5/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, April 7, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 18930 From: af21115 Date: 4/5/2002
Subject: Re: ANGEL HAIR
Mike, years ago before the convenient repair kits, I used to use
Angel Hair as used in fish tank water filters. Don't know where to
obtain this on-line, but if you check out a few fish and pet stores,
I'm sure you'll find a big bag of the stuff for a few bucks.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18931 From: gunrjoe@aol.com Date: 4/5/2002
Subject: Coils Burning Out
Since my layout is down and all my stuff boxed up I really can't do any
experimentation. I read with interest the recent discussions of coils burning
out i.e.: when a car is stopped on a danger bell trip. Maybe some of you
electrical whizzes could comment on a theory. Since all electrical devices
tend to draw more current when hot, can we determine the normal current draw,
then protect the device with an inline quick blow cartridge fuse with a
rating just slightly higher than the normal load???????

Keep Rolling down the line-Joe Craig


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18932 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/5/2002
Subject: Re: Coils Burning Out
A 5 amp fuse is generally what is used. Some devices at 3 amps.
The overheating draw varies from one item to another. Each Item
would need its own fuse at a proper rating to prevent overheating.
This is not praticle with trains
However locos should not overheat under normal situations.
In the case of AF locos overheating is caused by; old gummy grease,
dirt or hair got into the works, or something is binding. With the armature
removed from the motor, the wheels should turn very easy.
However the main reason is, old grease. Not just on the gears either.
That old grease is in the axle holes and needs to be dissolved enough so
it will wash out. Vaseline is OK for a few years and then it gets thick
and gummy causing the motor to burn out.
I have been using white lithium grease for over 20 years without any
problems.

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 18933 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/6/2002
Subject: Re: New electronic " Talking Station" device
Michael Christensen announced:
>a great new alternate to the TALKING STATION. This
>device optically recognizes up to 16 trains and can
>make separate station announcements for each one.

This is great. I am looking for something exactly like this, although I
would like more than two track sensing. You gave the model number, but, who
makes it?


Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18934 From: TED R LARSON Date: 4/6/2002
Subject: GN
I found some information that I've been seeking for a long time.

The November 2001 Mainline Modeler has an article about Great Northern
express boxcars. One of the paint schemes is orange and green, like the
American Models orange and green 40' GN boxcar. The article says that
this paint scheme was first used in the late fifites. The number on my
AM car is 8893. I do NOT find this number listed in my 1963 ORER, so I
can't confirm that number as prototypical. HOWEVER, the boxcars shown in
this article are similar to the AM car; 40' length, 10' height, similar
ends, nearly identical doors, similar sides. Not exact, but a reasonable
stand-in.

This issue of MM also has a good article about making trees, and an
article about MoW speeder set-outs.

A while back there was discussion about proper terminology for model
railroading scale. One question was whether it is correct to say 3/16"
scale as "shorthand" for 3/16" per foot scale. Since that time, I have
noticed that many websites and magazines still use that terminology; I
have seen references to 1/4" scale, 7mm scale, etc.

After reading this article, I inquired on the GN e-mail list about GN
express cars. I received the following reply.
Thanks Scott.

Ted Larson
Newton's third law of technology:
For every benefit, there is an equal and opposite inconvenience.


>>>> From: "scott1gn"
Subject: Re: Setouts and express

The GN used 'express' box cars for a number of tasks; here are a few,
1) Express box cars were used to haul less-than-carload freight on
locals, wayfreights. The box car(s) were often placed at the head of
the train in order to allow the crew and station agents easy access
while making deliveries and pick-ups at stations.
2) Used to haul mail in passenger trains. I have photos of express
box cars (orange and green 'loader' scheme) in the consist of the
Western Star - among other trains.
3) The cars were also used to haul company mail and
other company supplies either in passenger trains or freight trains.
4) In the late 60s, several of the cars were used in regular freight
service and definitely by the BN days were hauling anything that was
applicable to a box car. I have photos from the 70s of a car from
series 2501-2524 being loaded with grain at a grain elevator outside
of Willmar, MN. I am sure that there are other examples - the items
above are examples that I know of.

Scott Thompson

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18935 From: TED R LARSON Date: 4/6/2002
Subject: GN
I found some information that I've been seeking for a long time.

The November 2001 Mainline Modeler has an article about Great Northern
express boxcars. One of the paint schemes is orange and green, like the
American Models orange and green 40' GN boxcar. The article says that
this paint scheme was first used in the late fifites. The number on my
AM car is 8893. I do NOT find this number listed in my 1963 ORER, so I
can't confirm that number as prototypical. HOWEVER, the boxcars shown in
this article are similar to the AM car; 40' length, 10' height, similar
ends, nearly identical doors, similar sides. Not exact, but a reasonable
stand-in.

This issue of MM also has a good article about making trees, and an
article about MoW speeder set-outs.

A while back there was discussion about proper terminology for model
railroading scale. One question was whether it is correct to say 3/16"
scale as "shorthand" for 3/16" per foot scale. Since that time, I have
noticed that many websites and magazines still use that terminology; I
have seen references to 1/4" scale, 7mm scale, etc.

After reading this article, I inquired on the GN e-mail list about GN
express cars. I received the following reply.
Thanks Scott.

Ted Larson
Newton's third law of technology:
For every benefit, there is an equal and opposite inconvenience.


>>>> From: "scott1gn"
Subject: Re: Setouts and express

The GN used 'express' box cars for a number of tasks; here are a few,
1) Express box cars were used to haul less-than-carload freight on
locals, wayfreights. The box car(s) were often placed at the head of
the train in order to allow the crew and station agents easy access
while making deliveries and pick-ups at stations.
2) Used to haul mail in passenger trains. I have photos of express
box cars (orange and green 'loader' scheme) in the consist of the
Western Star - among other trains.
3) The cars were also used to haul company mail and
other company supplies either in passenger trains or freight trains.
4) In the late 60s, several of the cars were used in regular freight
service and definitely by the BN days were hauling anything that was
applicable to a box car. I have photos from the 70s of a car from
series 2501-2524 being loaded with grain at a grain elevator outside
of Willmar, MN. I am sure that there are other examples - the items
above are examples that I know of.

Scott Thompson

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18936 From: TED R LARSON Date: 4/6/2002
Subject: GN
I found some information that I've been seeking for a long time.

The November 2001 Mainline Modeler has an article about Great Northern
express boxcars. One of the paint schemes is orange and green, like the
American Models orange and green 40' GN boxcar. The article says that
this paint scheme was first used in the late fifites. The number on my
AM car is 8893. I do NOT find this number listed in my 1963 ORER, so I
can't confirm that number as prototypical. HOWEVER, the boxcars shown in
this article are similar to the AM car; 40' length, 10' height, similar
ends, nearly identical doors, similar sides. Not exact, but a reasonable
stand-in.

This issue of MM also has a good article about making trees, and an
article about MoW speeder set-outs.

A while back there was discussion about proper terminology for model
railroading scale. One question was whether it is correct to say 3/16"
scale as "shorthand" for 3/16" per foot scale. Since that time, I have
noticed that many websites and magazines still use that terminology; I
have seen references to 1/4" scale, 7mm scale, etc.

After reading this article, I inquired on the GN e-mail list about GN
express cars. I received the following reply.
Thanks Scott.

Ted Larson
Newton's third law of technology:
For every benefit, there is an equal and opposite inconvenience.


>>>> From: "scott1gn"
Subject: Re: Setouts and express

The GN used 'express' box cars for a number of tasks; here are a few,
1) Express box cars were used to haul less-than-carload freight on
locals, wayfreights. The box car(s) were often placed at the head of
the train in order to allow the crew and station agents easy access
while making deliveries and pick-ups at stations.
2) Used to haul mail in passenger trains. I have photos of express
box cars (orange and green 'loader' scheme) in the consist of the
Western Star - among other trains.
3) The cars were also used to haul company mail and
other company supplies either in passenger trains or freight trains.
4) In the late 60s, several of the cars were used in regular freight
service and definitely by the BN days were hauling anything that was
applicable to a box car. I have photos from the 70s of a car from
series 2501-2524 being loaded with grain at a grain elevator outside
of Willmar, MN. I am sure that there are other examples - the items
above are examples that I know of.

Scott Thompson

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18937 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 4/6/2002
Subject: Re: GN
Ted, Great info. Did the express cars have standard trucks or modified
trucks for the higher speed passenger service???? Thanks again
Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: TED R LARSON [mailto:mhrreast@...]
Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 11:33 AM
To: S-Scale@yahoogroups.com; S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] GN


I found some information that I've been seeking for a long time.

The November 2001 Mainline Modeler has an article about Great Northern
express boxcars. One of the paint schemes is orange and green, like the
American Models orange and green 40' GN boxcar. The article says that
this paint scheme was first used in the late fifites. The number on my
AM car is 8893. I do NOT find this number listed in my 1963 ORER, so I
can't confirm that number as prototypical. HOWEVER, the boxcars shown in
this article are similar to the AM car; 40' length, 10' height, similar
ends, nearly identical doors, similar sides. Not exact, but a reasonable
stand-in.

This issue of MM also has a good article about making trees, and an
article about MoW speeder set-outs.

A while back there was discussion about proper terminology for model
railroading scale. One question was whether it is correct to say 3/16"
scale as "shorthand" for 3/16" per foot scale. Since that time, I have
noticed that many websites and magazines still use that terminology; I
have seen references to 1/4" scale, 7mm scale, etc.

After reading this article, I inquired on the GN e-mail list about GN
express cars. I received the following reply.
Thanks Scott.

Ted Larson
Newton's third law of technology:
For every benefit, there is an equal and opposite inconvenience.


>>>> From: "scott1gn"
Subject: Re: Setouts and express

The GN used 'express' box cars for a number of tasks; here are a few,
1) Express box cars were used to haul less-than-carload freight on
locals, wayfreights. The box car(s) were often placed at the head of
the train in order to allow the crew and station agents easy access
while making deliveries and pick-ups at stations.
2) Used to haul mail in passenger trains. I have photos of express
box cars (orange and green 'loader' scheme) in the consist of the
Western Star - among other trains.
3) The cars were also used to haul company mail and
other company supplies either in passenger trains or freight trains.
4) In the late 60s, several of the cars were used in regular freight
service and definitely by the BN days were hauling anything that was
applicable to a box car. I have photos from the 70s of a car from
series 2501-2524 being loaded with grain at a grain elevator outside
of Willmar, MN. I am sure that there are other examples - the items
above are examples that I know of.

Scott Thompson

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
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Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18938 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/6/2002
Subject: GN
I often saw one or two GN express boxcars on NYCRR train #4, the mail train
that arrived at the W. 72nd St. yard from Chicago every afternoon in the
late '60's.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18939 From: TED R LARSON Date: 4/6/2002
Subject: Flagstop at Slapout
Flagstop at Slapout
http://www.master-creations.com/1400.htm

Our clug has this kit, however it was not built by us. We have a
problem. The roof is bowed down such that the chimney does not stand
straight up. Does anybody have a recommendation for additional bracing
of the roof so to prevent this problem?
If you are on S-trains, please cc: me directly with a reply.
Thank you,

Ted Larson
Newton's third law of technology:
For every benefit, there is an equal and opposite inconvenience.

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18940 From: Don Thompson Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Re: More SHS Blatant advertising
The container with almost all of our next run of reefers (and #00257
15" straight track) is now on it's way and expected later this month.
Our Webmaster Jon Mainello has posted the photo's that Bob Werre shot of
the single reefers at:
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

and the Swift three car sets at:
http://www.showcaseline.com/3carrwoodeneefersets_in_stock.html

(regarding three car reefer sets, the FGE and PFE are now sold out)
Don T.


-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 18941 From: erierailroad@aol.com Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Art Griffen S Scale Decals
Howdy,

Heres a link to Art Griffen Decals. They offer quite a selection in S scale
that would look good on a SHS undecorated reefer or boxcar. Has any one tried
this brand yet?

http://www.greatdecals.com/Griffin.htm


Jack


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18942 From: mktslsf Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Conversion From O Gauge to S Gauge
Hello,
I'm considering converting from O gauge to S gauge primarily because
of space for a layout. I've considered HO but for some reason, I'm
just not comfortable with it. Have any of you made the switch from O
to S and if so, what are the pros and cons? What's the quality of
the S gauge being produced today and who do you recommend? Is a
starter set the way to go? In addition, I don't want to get into a
lot of complex wiring and repair problems!
Thanks!
Doug
Group: S-Trains Message: 18943 From: Jim Schiele Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Tom Jarcho
<One of these days I am going to do a search of this list on the name
"Tom Jarcho". When I print out the results I will have a mighty fine
operating/repair manual.
Thanks Tom!!

Jim Grimes>

Don't forget about Tom's great articles in the "S-Gaugian"

Jim Schiele




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18944 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Re: Conversion From O Gauge to S Gauge
Hi Doug,
I used to have both S-Gauge and 0-gauge. I still have the first 0-gauge set
but sold everything else to buy S-Gauge. The best move I ever made.
The new S-Helper starter kits are the way to get started. This is a fact and
not just my opinion. The track is awesome and the detail on the Engines and
cars are absolutely beautiful. The starter sets come with an oval of track, a
transformer and engine, cars and caboose.
American models is now making some nice stuff and starting to catch up to
S-Helper in quality. Though the selection of engines by AM is better.
There are also some other smaller manufacturers making tank and hopper cars
among some others.
The best thing about switchin, is ditch that god awful 3rd rail.
Hope this helps you in your decision. Check out the S-Helper website at
www.showcaseline.com

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18945 From: WNHOLCOMB@aol.com Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Manoil 707 Colors
Does anyone have any good paint matches for any of the Flyer Manoil 707
colors ?



Neil Holcomb


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18946 From: Steve Blancard Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: SIT and SIB ?
Is it possible to add a SIB unit to a SIT 322 or 312 ? Is the engine
chassis the same between the two?

I've been thinking about a way to simulate steam exhaust coming out of
the bottom of the cylinders. Just wondering if it would be possible to
use both smoke units, one for the smoke as usual and the other for
"steam".

Thoughts ???

Steve Blancard
Crustyfour
Group: S-Trains Message: 18947 From: max meise Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: reverse unit
I plan to replace two worn out motors on AF engines with can motors. Is there someone that supplies electronic reverse units?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18948 From: David Dewey Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Re: SIT and SIB ?
Steve
The engine chassis are different. You'd have to change out the chassis,
redrill the smokestack hole, change the boiler front out so it can hold the
headlight, then (If you want to keep the AC reverse unit) you'll have to add
a tender-style reverse unit to the tender. You could use the old SIT reverse
unit, but you'll have to make a slot in the top for the lock-out lever.
Unless you have a lot of pieces laying about, I don't think the
conversion is economical.
Smoke from the cylinders should be possible. Marx did this on their
units. Some small tubing (maybe some ink pen refill tubes?) could be
inserted into the smoke unit near the stack opening and lead out near the
cylinders. Of course, prototypically no steam escapes there except when
opening the cylinder cocks when first starting, or if the rod packing is
leaking (which is a BAD thing).
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18949 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, April 7, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 18950 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Backs of Buildings
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/images/structures/Rear-additions/Backs.asp
Jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18951 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: S kits
http://www.remsmodels.com/OKits.htm
Jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18952 From: Gale Hall Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: needs
Afternoon all,

Any one need a Green painted plastic power plant and generator for the AF searchlite car? Corners are strong, small paint chips up on top ...


Still looking for 3 Lindberg Mini Lindy Vegas.

Thanks

gale hall


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18953 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Armor All
What are the pros & cons of using Armor All to spruce up the appearance of
our A.F. cars? Is there any damage which can be caused by it's use? If
so, is there another product which is better?

Mike Leahy
Group: S-Trains Message: 18954 From: Steve Blancard Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Re: SIT and SIB ?
David, you really know how to burst my bubble! But I appreciate your insight.
I knew most of the steam went up the blast pipe on real steamers, but I always
thought it was normal for some steam to escape from the cylinders when running
too. I guess my recollections were mostly of old leaky packings then.

Nevertheless, I'm still facinated by the idea of having steamy cylinders. Would
it be possible to go about it from the other direction - adding a SIT tender to
a SIB Hudson ? Then use the SIT to provide "steam" to the cylinders. If nothng
else, a SIT unit could provide "steam" to the cylinders while sitting at the
station. And whose to say the packings can't be a little worn ? ;-)
With space at a premium, I would sacrifice the reverse unit if necessary.

I don't have a lot of parts laying around, but am speculating on the
feasability. I do have a SIB 322 that could be used if I could find a SIT
tender to use with it....

Steve Blancard
Crustyfour


David Dewey wrote:

> Steve
> The engine chassis are different. You'd have to change out the chassis,
> redrill the smokestack hole, change the boiler front out so it can hold the
> headlight, then (If you want to keep the AC reverse unit) you'll have to add
> a tender-style reverse unit to the tender. You could use the old SIT reverse
> unit, but you'll have to make a slot in the top for the lock-out lever.
> Unless you have a lot of pieces laying about, I don't think the
> conversion is economical.
> Smoke from the cylinders should be possible. Marx did this on their
> units. Some small tubing (maybe some ink pen refill tubes?) could be
> inserted into the smoke unit near the stack opening and lead out near the
> cylinders. Of course, prototypically no steam escapes there except when
> opening the cylinder cocks when first starting, or if the rod packing is
> leaking (which is a BAD thing).
> S'
> David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18955 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Re: reverse unit
Max,

There are several third party replacements available but for the money its
hard to beat the Lionel part # 600-0103-001 for $13 msrp. It should be
available at most Lionel Service stations or parts dealer and will work just
fine. You may want to heat sink the transistors if you are going to pull
some long drags. You will need a small slide switch available at Radio Shack
for the reverse lockout if you want one. So if you are going to do several
this is a very economical way to go.

Carl

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.tuveson.com
Check out the New AF Loco Geared Drive Kit !
Buy it on line with PayPal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



-----Original Message-----
From: max meise [mailto:mmeise@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 2:19 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] reverse unit


I plan to replace two worn out motors on AF engines with can motors. Is
there someone that supplies electronic reverse units?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Group: S-Trains Message: 18956 From: David Dewey Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Re: SIT and SIB ?
Steve
That would work, although you would have to give up the reverse unit, I
think. Maybe you should look into a MTH smoke unit that might fit in the
tender with a reverse unit and do what you want to do. Then you could even
have steam come out the generator pipe!
Now to get really clever and have it come out the whistle when it is
blown. . . .
Hmm, we're gettin' dangerous here!
S
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18957 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Where is Keith Kuzma?
Keith Kuzma

Please contact me off line. I finally, finally was able to dig out the 787
carcass. It includes the buggy to load the logs. The motor spins very
smoothly nicely by hand.

Thorin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18958 From: Wayne Zebron Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: can motors--reverse unit
Max,

I replaced several AF steam motors with can motors. I chose to run them on
DC, all that is needed is a bridge rectifier on the output of your
transformer and a DPDT switch to change directions. The output of the
bridge rectifier is a pulsating DC-changes in amplitiude but not in
direction. I think it works great. The original motors in AF engines are
universal motors which will run on AC or DC. I have also converted each of
these with another bridge rectifier in each tender which will control
direction. (This second rectifier is not needed with a can motor since it
has a permanent magnet for a field.

Something to think about

Wayne
Group: S-Trains Message: 18959 From: David Dewey Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Re: reverse unit
The Lionel unit will only work on a DC motor. Don't know if this would be a
problem for you though.
S
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18960 From: Doug Peck Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Re: reverse unit
<<I plan to replace two worn out motors on AF engines with can motors. Is
there someone that supplies electronic reverse units?
>>

Personally, we like, and carry, the QSI electronic reverse units, as well as
the can-motors (both regular speed, and the new "half-speed/scale speed) .
However, Dallee also manufactures electronic reverse units.

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST weeknights.
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please.)
Website: www.portlines.com
E-mail: doug@...
VISA--MASTERCARD--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18961 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 4/7/2002
Subject: Re: SIT and SIB ?
In a message dated 4/7/02 4:58:59 PM, djdewey@... writes:

<< Smoke from the cylinders should be possible. Marx did this on their units.
>>

Also, most all of the post war and Modern era big Lionel Hudsons (773, etc.)
and a number of recent Lionel offerings (Consolidations, Camelbacks, and
Atlantics) built in the late 1990s have this feature, too.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 18962 From: David Dewey Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: computer help needed!
OK all you gurus out there, I am becoming very frustrated with a "bug" my
computer does can anyone define if I have a hardware or software problem?
BTW, YES there is an S gauge connection, it messed me up this AM working on
Fixin' Flyer.
Many times when my modem disconnects from the phone line (while on the net),
either by my request or by the server disconnecting, the computer completely
locks up. That is no keystrokes can do a thing to the screen, nor mouse
movements. I have to push the hard reset button (or turn off the power) and
reboot. Of course then I have to go through "scandisk" (except I usually
abort this if I'm in a hurry).
Oh, I have a P2 166, running Windows 95C
HELP!
S'
David Dewey
PS If it's a hardware problem, well then I have a good excuse to spend $$,
if it's a software problem, then I guess it's time for a reload--AAAUGH!
Group: S-Trains Message: 18963 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: Re: computer help needed!
Hi,

Well, judging by your note, I'll do you a favor and say it's a hardware problem. Now go out there and get a new big honkin' rig.

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: David Dewey
To: s-trains ; S-Scale
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 12:13 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] computer help needed!


OK all you gurus out there, I am becoming very frustrated with a "bug" my
computer does can anyone define if I have a hardware or software problem?
BTW, YES there is an S gauge connection, it messed me up this AM working on
Fixin' Flyer.
Many times when my modem disconnects from the phone line (while on the net),
either by my request or by the server disconnecting, the computer completely
locks up. That is no keystrokes can do a thing to the screen, nor mouse
movements. I have to push the hard reset button (or turn off the power) and
reboot. Of course then I have to go through "scandisk" (except I usually
abort this if I'm in a hurry).
Oh, I have a P2 166, running Windows 95C
HELP!
S'
David Dewey
PS If it's a hardware problem, well then I have a good excuse to spend $$,
if it's a software problem, then I guess it's time for a reload--AAAUGH!


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18964 From: David Dewey Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: Computer help!! a PS
Hi all, and thank you for your responses.
I can tell by the messages I should also note that I have 128K of ram
already, windows says 132K is available and resources are at 46%.
Thought I had 256K, guess I was wrong. . . .
S
David
Group: S-Trains Message: 18965 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: leaky smoke unit
What is the best thing to use to seal a leaky smoke unit that is owned by a
little kid who drenches it in smoke fluid?

Thanks.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18966 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: Re: leaky smoke unit
TAKE AWAY THE SMOKE FLUID!!!!!! BOB CONNER
----- Original Message -----
From: <jarcho@...>
To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 2:47 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] leaky smoke unit


> What is the best thing to use to seal a leaky smoke unit that is owned by
a
> little kid who drenches it in smoke fluid?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 18967 From: Doug Peck Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: Re: EMAIL change
PLEASE NOTE A CHANGE IN OUR EMAIL ADDRESS !

MEDIAONE.NET, as of MARCH 15th, ceased to exist for EMAIL purposes.
Unfortunately
(a) they gave everyone rather minimal advance notice of this;
(b) they do NOT forward email still sent to any mediaone.com address; and
(c) they do NOT "bounce" that wrongly-addressed email back to the sender.

So, those of us who OUGHT to be receiving it are not, and those of you who
THINK we did receive it don't know otherwise!

I know we have "lost" much incoming email since March 15th, but that's why.

Our NEW EMAIL ADDRESS is
doug@...

Please update your address books accordingly.
Thanks.

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supplies
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please).
http://www.portlines.com
doug@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 18968 From: David Dewey Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: Re: leaky smoke unit
A cap over the stack!!
he he he!
Seriously, the best/easy repair I have heard so far is to clean the outside
w/lacquer thiner (or nail polish remover) and apply nail polisth to the
outside seams, AND the screws.
Let us know how it goes. . .
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18969 From: crustyfour Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: Load for an old time gondola/flat car ??
I need some suggestions for a good load to put on a Bachmann ON30
conversion gondola/flatcar. I run this with my Franklin set as a
mixed consist. I've been looking for an interesting, old time type
load to put on the gondola but haven't come up with anything yet.
I'd like to find something pre-1900 like farm machinery, a stationary
steam engine, portable sawmill, barrels of whiskey, buffalo hides
or ?????

I'm open to suggetions. I'd like to find something unique (not logs,
lumber or plain wooden crates), correct for the period, close to the
correct scale and comercially available or easy to make from scratch.

Use your fertile imagination and give me some ideas !


Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 18970 From: John DeFelice Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: leaky smoke unit
I seal my smoke chambers with a little silicon gasket sealer, It will even allow you to re-assemble them without replacing the gaskets, however, I usually re-install the old gaskets ( if they aren't burned through), so coils won't short against the covers .......
John


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18971 From: rodgers_carl Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: leaky smoke unit
Whats wrong with a new gasket? DA
Group: S-Trains Message: 18972 From: bassflyer Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: Re: Load for an old time gondola/flat car ??
Steve and all,....
I have a binder that I found at a swap meet, I keep all my AF
catalogs and "S" info in it,...on the front is a VIRGINIA & TRUCKEE
old time loco, the pic wraps around to the back of the binder and
shows an old time coach, much like the AF coaches, same color
even,....BUT,..in between the loco and the coach,..is a flatcar with
two, count 'em, two stagecoaches on it!
Now,...where can ya find little stagecoaches??

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18973 From: bassflyer Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: On30 caboose.......
Got my SHS trucks today that I had ordered for my On30
caboose, and it is now running on my little layout. Cute little
caboose!! I think I mentioned it before, that it has a pot bellied
stove inside, along with cabinets and two bench/beds. I glued a
sitting Railking figure on a bunk, and with the single light bulb,
you can see him and some of the interior!
I also have a gondola and a stock car to convert now,...and
it's all that Steve's fault!! Going to order the On30 Christmas
coaches, they have seats, and one or two lights inside,..snow in the
window corners, great, of course, for Christmas. I plan to put
Railking little people in them.
The fun never ends!!

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18974 From: Scott Holm Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: Re: Load for an old time gondola/flat car ??
--- bassflyer <comic@...> wrote:
>,..in between the loco and the coach,..is a flatcar with
> two, count 'em, two stagecoaches on it!
> Now,...where can ya find little stagecoaches??

There is one 1/64th scale stagecoach in the Ertl Farm Country Ranch Cow
Town set. Two of them would fit perfectly on an S-scale flat car. You
might want to paint it; it's solid brown.



__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18975 From: Robert Wight Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: Load for an old time gondola/flat car ??
Matchbox has a nice stage coach with horses.




_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 18976 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/8/2002
Subject: Armor All
THis is an interesting question.

I do not like the idea of using clear coatings of any kind on Flyer trains.

1. Flyer finishes are mostly flat or satin, and their appearance will not
be helped by making them shinier.
2. Most of these products contain silicone, which can cause a mottling
effect on painted finishes.
3. Most of them will dissolve ink lettering unless carefully used.
4. They all, so far as I know, get darker and browner as time passes.

Perhaps there is some archival quality polymer that can be used, but I
don't know of it.

If anyone else here has a different opinion I'd like to see it. This is an
interesting question.

Tom Jarcho

P.S.: I observed an interesting thing at the Museum of Natural History.
Took a quick walk through several halls of exhibits to get to the new
baseball one. These exhibits were of two kinds. One was dioramas of
taxidermied animals with painted plaster scenery and traditional diorama
materials. The other was much newer all acrylic and plastic displays of
pond life and aquatic organisms. The acrylic stuff was faded and no longer
shiny. The plaster dioramas, which are probably 75 years old, looked
almost brand new!

I do not trust "better living thru chemistry" miracle finishes and never have.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18977 From: Alex Sibbald Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: standout headlamps
Hi all,
Have any of you seen the incredably bright led keychain lights? My
memories of trains started with a headlight you could see miles away! It
would be neat to have someone come up with a kit that you could use to
replace (not permanantly) the ac lamp (dull) with an astonishingly
bright led. I would be a market all by myself. Anyone else out there?
Alex (innotron)
Group: S-Trains Message: 18978 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: standout headlamps
The way to properly do this, would not involve a modification of the AF
engine at all! Basically, what you do is take an original lamp, break
out the glass bulb, and use the socket to mount the new led, dropping
resistor and diode (if needed) into it. Then just screw your new light
in! Where I work at Disney, we did this to hundreds of much smaller
lamps years ago, in order to get longer life. It takes some good
soldering skills, but is not all that hard to do! I think I may try it
myself, if I can find the bright leds somewhere. Radioshack?

--

eBay myflyertrains@... - TCA# 99-50024

Personal Web Site - http://myflyertrains.com
Kris Model Trains Home - http://krismodeltrains.org
The All Aboard Sets Club - http://allaboardsetsclub.org
Group: S-Trains Message: 18979 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: building links
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/hhhtml/hhhome.html
Jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18980 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Website train links?
This is a request to people posting website links.
Please post a brief note letting people know what the link
is for. A couple of words on your subject line just does
not provide sufficient information.
Or in other words. HEY, -- What is that link for. Will I be wasting
my time or what?

Thanks

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 18981 From: yazfacts Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: 21168 Casey.......
Dear Group,
I have a question about a 21168 Casey Jones Engine that I
have.What makes this little engine smoke sssoooooooo much ? Does it
have a different smoke unit then all of the other Flyer engines ?? I
know that this was the end of the line for Gilbert , but this litle
engine runs great and boy does she smoke.Please post any and all
responces.Thanks in advance.........Bob s.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18982 From: bassflyer Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Stagecoach loads......
Rick wrote,..**((in between the loco and the coach,..is a flatcar
with two, count 'em, two stagecoaches on it!
Now,...where can ya find little stagecoaches??**)))

Scott wrote
**((There is one 1/64th scale stagecoach in the Ertl Farm Country
Ranch Cow Town set. Two of them would fit perfectly on an S-scale
flat car. You might want to paint it; it's solid brown.))**

Rick writes back,...
Yep,..after I posted about the stagecoahes,..I remembered that the
Cow Town has a stagecoach,..I have two sets,..I'll have to dig them
out,..and I agree with Scott, a little paint and detailing would make
the coaches look even better.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18983 From: trzp1800 Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: Armor All
> I do not like the idea of using clear coatings of any kind on Flyer
trains.
> I do not trust "better living thru chemistry" miracle finishes and
never have.

Hi:
I have used two different "bumper and trim" products on my turnouts
to bring them back to a "shiney" plastic look. Both worked well. Got
one from IPD out in Washington State and don't remember what the
other one is but i got it at NAPA. Might be called "Bumper Black".
They probably both have silicon in them but for the turnouts this
seems to work fine, and it gives them a new look. Wouldn't use is on
the cars.

My experience with "Armor-all" has been similar to some of the
others. Both dashes i've used it on have started cracking within a
year of it's use. Both dashes were old before i first applied the
product. My Dad uses it from day one when he gets a new car and his
dashes look brand new five years later. Maybe the age at which you
start the treatment makes a difference.

Regards,
Ted
Group: S-Trains Message: 18984 From: bassflyer Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: Armor All
Good points to ponder! We have all heard that using Armorall,
(how do ya spell it??) and other such products make things shiny and
nice,..however takes the moisture, or somethin' out of the dash (or
whatever it's on) and tends to make it crack. I have used such a
product on my truck dash and other parts in my truck, on and off, for
over 11 years, and no problems, and my truck has no shade cover.
Now for trains,...when I had my ol' 282 worked on back in '97
by a fella,...he used such a product on it, and it looked great! It
has since worn off, and I never re-applied anything. While washing
and scrubbing off all of the scuffs and marks from the roof of an old
circus coach I was working on,...it was left a dull yellow, some
paint was removed. I applied Armorall and it brought back the color
and some shine, amd I did do one roof of one of my 655's and I was
assuming it gave them a "new" look.
Now MY question is,....how shiny were plastic AF locos and AF
coaches when they were brand new?? Being shiny does make them look
nice, (if ya like that), but are they supposed to be shiny? To each
their own I guess.

Rick "A little shine for my forehead please!" Evans.
Group: S-Trains Message: 18985 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: Armor All
IF you are going to use Armor All Try the Semi-Gloss Hard to find But not
as glossy,use on switches rerailers Etc. Cars???? Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18986 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Cleaning Cars
Hi everyone,
I have been using a mild dish detergent and a very soft worn out tooth brush
to clean my cars and engines for years. After I wash them, especially the
diecast and metal parts, I use a hair dryer on low setting to dry the parts.
Then I use good old Lemon Pledge to polish them up a little. I think this
works the best. Just an opinion and another way to get to point B.

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18987 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: AC/DC question
Me again,
I would like to use a Flyer transformer for my engines with whistles in them
and then after I park that engine, be able to flip a switch to switch over to
the dc transformer. I know someone that did this but not how. Any help.
Thanks Chris

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18988 From: trzp1800 Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning Cars
--- In S-Trains@y..., Cbtrainnut1@a... wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> I have been using a mild dish detergent and a very soft worn out
tooth brush

Hi:
I use the same, wornout toothbrush and dish detergent, cleaning
method on my stuff. Seems to work well. The hair dryer is important,
especially on old couplers.

Have used the "mat" finish "Armor-all" before and it is less shiny.
Still had my dash crack about two months later. Car was an '87 Taurus
and this was in 2001.

Regards,
Ted
Group: S-Trains Message: 18989 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: how shiny were they??
I know an elderly gent who worked at Gilbert from
right after WW2 til they shut down. According to him,
painters worked with sprayguns attached to 5 or 30
gallon drums of paint. The paint drums used bubble
agitators. Therefore, there is no-or very
little-standard. I have pieces as flat as floquil
military colors, others that approach glossy. The bare
plastic pcs were glossy, til i feel around
1957-whether the plastic blend was changer, or the
dies were developing a surface patina, I don't know.
my .02-john marganski

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
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Group: S-Trains Message: 18990 From: Roger Delthony Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: AC/DC question
Chris,

What I understand you to be asking is, "how can I run my trains
alternately on AC or DC?"

What we do is to run the AC output from the transformer to the common
poles of at least a two-pole multiposition switch (commonly use a rotary
switch).

Then we take the output from the two poles at the first position and run
to the track. This is your AC.

Next take the outputs from the two poles at the next position, insert a
diode in one lead, run to a double-pole single-throw switch (for DC
polarity/direction reversing), and then to your track. This gives you
half-wave DC.

Finally take the outputs from the two poles at the third position, run
to a bridge rectifier, and then to the same double-pole single-throw
switch. This gives you full wave DC.

Of course if you are not using one of the DC options, eliminate that
one.

I like to use a three-pole switch for applications like this. The third
pole in each position powers one of three indicator lights on the
control box to show which power mode is in use.

If any of this is not clear, let me know.

Regards,

Roger Delthony
Group: S-Trains Message: 18991 From: Wes Parker Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: unsubscribe
to Paul York

Please unsubscribe me from the S-train list.

Wes Parker e-mail address wes.parker@...

Thank you
Group: S-Trains Message: 18992 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1414
In a message dated 04/09/2002 2:54:01 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> From: Alex Sibbald <innotron@...>
> Subject: standout headlamps
>
> Hi all,
> Have any of you seen the incredibly bright led keychain lights? My
> memories of trains started with a headlight you could see miles away! It
> would be neat to have someone come up with a kit that you could use to
> replace (not permanently) the ac lamp (dull) with an astonishingly
> bright led. I would be a market all by myself. Anyone else out there?
> Alex (innotron)
>
>
>
> Alex, S-'n-S Trains offers that service. All our Locos are ultra bright LED
> equipped.


Steve & Sam





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18993 From: Wes Parker Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: unsubscribe
Yes- I would like to unsubscribe.

wes.parker@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 18994 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Cheap Electronic E-unit for DC Can Motor Conversions Follow up.
Some of you wrote and wanted more details on using Lionel's electronic
E-unit #600-0103-001 with DC Can motor conversions. If you are going to
modernize the Loco with a DC Can Motor upgrade what's in the tender too.
Get rid of that Clunky Temperamental Old Mechanical reverse unit and keep
the compatiblity with your other AC engines and sound systems. It is a very
economical upgrade.

I have put a Picture, Information, and Wiring Diagram on my web site of an
installation in an AF tender.
http://www.tuveson.com/E-unit/eunit.htm

Carl

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.tuveson.com
Check out the New AF Loco Geared Drive Kit !
Buy it on line with PayPal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Group: S-Trains Message: 18995 From: Michael Greene Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: River Raisin Models Web site Updates
For those who may be interested in any or all of the following, please
visit the River Raisin Models web site at http://www.riverraisinmodels.com
for the latest updates:

- Pullman Troop Sleepers, Kitchen Cars & Express Box Cars: reservations now
being accepted, due by June 15, 2002

- NYC and C&O new decal sets for steam locomotives - now available

- New photos of the currently available Nickel Plate Road caboose (both
paint schemes)

- Big Spring Parts Sale (now through May 1 ,2002)

- Pin Truss Bridge Winter Offer extended through May 1, 2002

- Special offer on the remaining USRA hoppers - while they last

Regards
Michael
Group: S-Trains Message: 18996 From: joeawood@aol.com Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Modular Layouts
The Alto Model Train Museum Association is currently planning to build a new
modular S layout I am searching for all the pros and cons. Does anyone have
any plans that include folding table legs that are attached. And what type of
track is recommended. What is the best way to connect the modules I would
like to construct a state of the art modular layout. Any help from clubs or
members would be greatly appreciated. We have established a toy train museum
in Altoona Pa. and will be using this layout to generate funds to help
support the museum. If you want to send me info off list My email is
JOEAWOOD@... I feel that any should be of great interest to the
subscribers but I don't want to waste any ones time with this post or the
replies Thanks Joe


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 18997 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: Cheap Electronic E-unit for DC Can Motor Conversions Follow up.
I do not share Carl's confidence in the LTI 0103-001 electronic reverse
unit. Unless they havve redesigned it.

It apparently burns out easily. I have replaced that reverse unit in
several O and S gauge locos over the years. I had a friend who did the
Lionel repairs at Macy's Herald Square store, and LTI sent him a small
garbage bag full of these reverse units because so many were burning out.
He had literally piles of locos several feet high to replace the reverse
units in (and other things as well). He gave me a few, and I still have a
couple left. I would never put one in one of my own locos.

Now, this is a difference of taste, not philosophy. I am sure these units
work great for Carl, but they would not work for me. My all-Gilbert
layouts are higher voltage and probably have more power surges too.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 18998 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: AC/DC question
Chris Becker asks:
>I would like to use a Flyer transformer for my engines with whistles in
them
>and then after I park that engine, be able to flip a switch to switch over
to
>the dc transformer.

Chris:
Not hard to do. First, you don't need two transformers. You just need your
rectifier setup wired to the track through a double pole-double throw
switch. When the switch is in one position, it sends AC power directly from
the transformer to the track. In the opposite position, it sends AC power
into the rectifier, which is always connected to the track. You can even
use the one track clip. You're rectifier should have a fairly high PIV to
handle the AC coming back through it from the track when it is "out" of the
circuit.

The problem comes from that parked engine. It's going to run on the DC too.
If you want it to run only on AC, you're going to have to put it into a
siding controlled by a Flyer switch on "2 Train Operation" before you throw
the DPDT and change over to DC.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 18999 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Duck!
David:
You're problem can be identified as a hardware problem by entering "My
Computer"/"Control Panel"/"System"/"Device Manager" Tab/"Modem" also
"Ports". Look for hardware conflicts, bad ports and anything with a big
yellow "?" or Zero Slash sign. Even if you don't see anything wrong, you
can still reinstall the modem. Uninstall it completely from the hardware
manager and then shut down. Let Plug & Play re-install it on startup.

If all is clean, but it still does not work properly, the problem may be in
your registry. You can go to PCWorld.com and search for a freeware registry
checker or cleaner first. It may be possible to clear problems by
re-installing Windows. Better still, install 98.

Good luck,

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19000 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: leaky smoke unit
>What is the best thing to use to seal a leaky smoke unit that is owned by a
>little kid who drenches it in smoke fluid?

Does he also chew gum?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19001 From: Don Thompson Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: Modular Layouts
Dear Joe,
If you are interested, we have developed a 6' x 12" display layout that is built
on 2" foam insulation board. We use our own SHS "S Trax System" as trackage (
http://www.showcaseline.com/track.html ) laid on the foam and also using Woodland
Scenics foam elevations and risers (4%, 3& and 2% grades (
http://www.woodlandscenics.com/subterr.htm ). Scenery is a combination of urethane
foam in cans (great stuff), Latex paint undercoat and the Woodland Scenics ground
foam ( http://www.woodlandscenics.com/LANDSCAP.HTM ). The 2" foam board is set
into a 1" X 3" frame and set of four 30" X 72" plastic folding tables (Staples @
$49.95 each when on sale). The Layout (Layout D in our 2001 catalog, pg 44) allow
two train operation and features three loops of 20", 25" and 30" radius, as small
yard and one siding. The real nice thing about our display layout is the tables
allow a height where children can see the trains run. At our last Show (East Coast
Hobby Show, Fort Washington, PA) we made our Locomatic (TM Dallee Electronics)
Controller available for our little admirers to operate the horn, bell and lights.
Once our open top hoppers are on the market, we are planning on including the MTH
and Lionel reproduced American Flyer coal loaders to help load the cars.
If you are interested in a display like this, I have jpegs of the various stages
of assembly and of some of the shows we have attended.
Don Thompson

joeawood@... wrote:

> The Alto Model Train Museum Association is currently planning to build a new
> modular S layout I am searching for all the pros and cons. Does anyone have
> any plans that include folding table legs that are attached. And what type of
> track is recommended. What is the best way to connect the modules I would
> like to construct a state of the art modular layout. Any help from clubs or
> members would be greatly appreciated. We have established a toy train museum
> in Altoona Pa. and will be using this layout to generate funds to help
> support the museum. If you want to send me info off list My email is
> JOEAWOOD@... I feel that any should be of great interest to the
> subscribers but I don't want to waste any ones time with this post or the
> replies Thanks Joe

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 19002 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: Cheap Electronic E-unit for DC Can Motor Conversio ns Follow up.
Tom,

These units have been used in thousands of engines and they of course have
failures. Many due to abuse or voltage transients that will damage any
Electronic unit. This is a problem with all solid state units. My point was
to present an economical solution. I do Lionel Service Station Repairs and
the number of these units that go bad is a very small percent of the repairs
I do. Even if one failed at $13 they are virtually disposable, and easy to
replace. They were designed to run on any Lionel transformer and probably
will take more abuse than some of the newer OEM or replacment units.

I stand by my recommendation but to each his own.

Respectfully,

Carl



-----Original Message-----
From: jarcho@... [mailto:jarcho@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 8:38 PM
To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Cheap Electronic E-unit for DC Can Motor
Conversions Follow up.


I do not share Carl's confidence in the LTI 0103-001 electronic reverse
unit. Unless they havve redesigned it.

It apparently burns out easily. I have replaced that reverse unit in
several O and S gauge locos over the years. I had a friend who did the
Lionel repairs at Macy's Herald Square store, and LTI sent him a small
garbage bag full of these reverse units because so many were burning out.
He had literally piles of locos several feet high to replace the reverse
units in (and other things as well). He gave me a few, and I still have a
couple left. I would never put one in one of my own locos.

Now, this is a difference of taste, not philosophy. I am sure these units
work great for Carl, but they would not work for me. My all-Gilbert
layouts are higher voltage and probably have more power surges too.

Tom Jarcho



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All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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Group: S-Trains Message: 19003 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: Duck!
Okay Chris, you really need to duck now. The problem most likely isn't a hardware
problem. I would still check things out and re-install the modem drivers or even
Windows again first. Windows 95 (and all 9X versions) are inherently buggy and this
kind of thing happens at random. The original Win 98 seems to be worse than 95. The
ME version (still 98) is better than all of the previous versions, though. My
computer seemed to always do the same thing. Another big problem you find with 98 is
that when you shut down Windows, it will tell you Windows is shutting down, then it
freezes up. The only thing you can do is shut off the power and restart the
computer. Of course, scandisk starts, but you can always cancel it if you don't want
to wait. I only had it find an error once in hundreds of times I did this.

Normally, I wouldn't recommend you installing 98, but instead going right to XP. Not
to say XP doesn't have it's own quirks, but it is the most stable OS Microsoft has
come out with yet. I haven't had a single problem since I installed it (knock on
wood) except for the fact that a lot of my drivers needed upgrading and a few
programs as well (XP is NT based). Unfortunately, David's PC most likely won't run
XP, or at least not well. They recommend a processor speed of 300 MHz (233 minimum)
with 128 meg RAM minimum. I have found that sometimes you can use a slower
processor, but won't be happy with performance with any of the 9X series, but haven't
tested it on XP. My PC is running a PII-333 with 128 meg of ram and it is okay, just
slow. All Windows OS will benefit by adding as much RAM as possible. And, according
to the box, you can't upgrade to XP over 95. You either have to upgrade to 98 first
(not a good choice unless you have to), or buy the full version of XP for $150.

You can still buy a version of ME (but not for long) for the same price as the XP
upgrade of $100. See if you can find someone (who has upgraded to XP - legal talk)
who can give you his old copy if you can. Personally, I think it is time to bite the
bullet and get a new machine. You can find lots of 1.2 GHz models for around $500
now as these are almost bottom of the line PCs now, with current processor speeds now
at 2.2 GHz.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO



Chris Zizzo wrote:

> David:
> You're problem can be identified as a hardware problem by entering "My
> Computer"/"Control Panel"/"System"/"Device Manager" Tab/"Modem" also
> "Ports". Look for hardware conflicts, bad ports and anything with a big
> yellow "?" or Zero Slash sign. Even if you don't see anything wrong, you
> can still reinstall the modem. Uninstall it completely from the hardware
> manager and then shut down. Let Plug & Play re-install it on startup.
>
> If all is clean, but it still does not work properly, the problem may be in
> your registry. You can go to PCWorld.com and search for a freeware registry
> checker or cleaner first. It may be possible to clear problems by
> re-installing Windows. Better still, install 98.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19004 From: David Dewey Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: Duck!
All right Roger!!
A Second vote for a NEW system!!! (heh, heh, heh!).
Many have noted my problem probably lies with the under 50% system
resources, and running WIN95 (IMHO, all of these should be named LOSE9X) . I
have closed all the little Icons in the lower right corner, deleted a lot of
.TMP files. (Looked all over the help area for a definition of .CHK files as
they are also in the Temp file folder--but no luck finding anything that
explains what these are) I now have over 2GB of hard disk space and
resources is up to 53%. So far the modem isn't locking up the machine. . .
However, this computer has been "Buggy" from day one, and I've now lived
with it for 5 years. Last night I drooled over a "Best Buy" in house make
with P4/1.6, 60GB hard, CDRW, DVD and a 17" flat screen monitor for around
$1K out the door. Hmm. . . Boy that will eat into the train budget and a few
others too! Do I need all those bells and whistles?? NAH. . .
Doing the IRS thing this week. We'll see if I paid enough in last year,
then I can drool some more. OTOH, I could buy more memory for this puppy for
around $50, and I already have a CDRW drive and a 30G hard drive sitting
here that I could install (if 95C can run them) and save my money for a
while longer. . . .
One thing I am NOT looking forward to is transferring all my stuff to
the new machine, although I already have a ZIP drive (that I can use, but
somehow conflicts according to the hardware config list) that I could maybe
move to a new machine? (or install the CDRW in this one and save stuff to
it).
Ideas anyone?? You have all been most helpful! THANK YOU!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19005 From: Euell Johnson Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Re: Duck!
W95 has some problems. Some version limit the amount of hard drive space it
will address. If you go beyond 2 gig you must partition the HD into smaller
logical drives. It may also limit RAM. When I ran W95 I would oeriodically
clean out and reinstall. Always had a major problem getting it to install
the modem software.

I am running W98SE with the service packs. I run 30 gig and 40 gig hard
drives and 384 meg ram. I am hoping that Santa Claus can bring me another
384 meg. On a rare occasion I will experience a lockup, but it is FAR more
stable than W95. The RAM gets rid of the time consuming disk/RAM swapping
that goes on with smaller RAM.

Another place to look for resource consumption is in the programs that run
"under the surface", such as you antivirus.

So far I have not had the need to upgrade to Wme or Wxp. I wonder what these
will do for me that W98SE+sr's will not.

As for eating up resources, periodically clean out the cookies, delete
unwanted and out of date mail, run Scandisk to see that everything is okay,
then Disk Cleanup to finally delete all of the trash (even cleans out the
Recycle Bin) and then Disk Defrag.

bigfoot


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
To: "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@...>
Cc: "S-Scale" <S-Scale@onelist.com>; "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Duck!


> All right Roger!!
> A Second vote for a NEW system!!! (heh, heh, heh!).
> Many have noted my problem probably lies with the under 50% system
> resources, and running WIN95 (IMHO, all of these should be named LOSE9X) .
I
> have closed all the little Icons in the lower right corner, deleted a lot
of
> .TMP files. (Looked all over the help area for a definition of .CHK files
as
> they are also in the Temp file folder--but no luck finding anything that
> explains what these are) I now have over 2GB of hard disk space and
> resources is up to 53%. So far the modem isn't locking up the machine. . .
> However, this computer has been "Buggy" from day one, and I've now
lived
> with it for 5 years. Last night I drooled over a "Best Buy" in house make
> with P4/1.6, 60GB hard, CDRW, DVD and a 17" flat screen monitor for around
> $1K out the door. Hmm. . . Boy that will eat into the train budget and a
few
> others too! Do I need all those bells and whistles?? NAH. . .
> Doing the IRS thing this week. We'll see if I paid enough in last
year,
> then I can drool some more. OTOH, I could buy more memory for this puppy
for
> around $50, and I already have a CDRW drive and a 30G hard drive sitting
> here that I could install (if 95C can run them) and save my money for a
> while longer. . . .
> One thing I am NOT looking forward to is transferring all my stuff to
> the new machine, although I already have a ZIP drive (that I can use, but
> somehow conflicts according to the hardware config list) that I could
maybe
> move to a new machine? (or install the CDRW in this one and save stuff to
> it).
> Ideas anyone?? You have all been most helpful! THANK YOU!
> S'
> David D.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19006 From: redline_jc Date: 4/9/2002
Subject: Need some help
I collect 1/64 diecast trucks and i'm trying to make a layout for
them but i'm having trouble finding industrial buildings and modern
city buildings if any one knows or sells any pleas contact me at
phatbasterd@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 19007 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Re: Duck!
Hi David,

I keep a 40 gig Maxtor external hard drive ready to plug into the USB hub for my computer. I use it to back up the 5,000+ mp3 files I downloaded in the glory days of Napster and compliments all the public libraries in my area. If I were upgrading to a new computer, I'd download everything I wanted to keep into the external hard drive first, unplug it and then re-install it to the new machine and transfer my files. Pretty easy. Using the USB port, it took 7 1/2 hours to back up my music database, but it is still fast enough retrieval that I could play from it in a pinch using WinAmp as a jukebox, though I don't want to 'cuz that external hard drive is supposed to be a backup. Okay, what does this have to do with trains? Nothing, except here is a good way to back up your TRAIN files before upgrading computers. Cost of 40 gig Maxtor external hard drive: $180 at Staples.

Regards,
Tim

Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html
----- Original Message -----
From: David Dewey
To: Roger V. Petrella Jr.
Cc: S-Scale ; slist
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 11:56 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Duck!


All right Roger!!
A Second vote for a NEW system!!! (heh, heh, heh!).
Many have noted my problem probably lies with the under 50% system
resources, and running WIN95 (IMHO, all of these should be named LOSE9X) . I
have closed all the little Icons in the lower right corner, deleted a lot of
.TMP files. (Looked all over the help area for a definition of .CHK files as
they are also in the Temp file folder--but no luck finding anything that
explains what these are) I now have over 2GB of hard disk space and
resources is up to 53%. So far the modem isn't locking up the machine. . .
However, this computer has been "Buggy" from day one, and I've now lived
with it for 5 years. Last night I drooled over a "Best Buy" in house make
with P4/1.6, 60GB hard, CDRW, DVD and a 17" flat screen monitor for around
$1K out the door. Hmm. . . Boy that will eat into the train budget and a few
others too! Do I need all those bells and whistles?? NAH. . .
Doing the IRS thing this week. We'll see if I paid enough in last year,
then I can drool some more. OTOH, I could buy more memory for this puppy for
around $50, and I already have a CDRW drive and a 30G hard drive sitting
here that I could install (if 95C can run them) and save my money for a
while longer. . . .
One thing I am NOT looking forward to is transferring all my stuff to
the new machine, although I already have a ZIP drive (that I can use, but
somehow conflicts according to the hardware config list) that I could maybe
move to a new machine? (or install the CDRW in this one and save stuff to
it).
Ideas anyone?? You have all been most helpful! THANK YOU!
S'
David D.


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All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19008 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Re: Duck!
What has this discussion have to do with trains?

Why can't someone say, "I am having computer problems. Can someone
help me" Then get out of the train are and discuss it.
Same with e-bay subjects.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19009 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Re: Need some help
You may find a few. But you will have to make your own if you want
quantity. Last I knew there aren't many buildings in "S" gauge available.
Some guys kit bash HO buildings for "S" gauge. They will remove an HO
size door in a structure and put in a "S" size door.

Roger

redline_jc wrote:

> I collect 1/64 diecast trucks and i'm trying to make a layout for
> them but i'm having trouble finding industrial buildings and modern
> city buildings if any one knows or sells any pleas contact me at
> phatbasterd@...
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19010 From: rfgiardina Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Re: Duck!
.CHK files are the file fragment files created by SCANDISK, they can
be safely deleted. Also .tmp files.

Closing the files in the task bar or system tray does not close the
files that are running in the backround, eating up system resources.
They must be closed using "end task", from the task window. 53% is
still much too low.

Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 19011 From: Rhett T. George Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1415
- Greetings -

Chris has asked a good question. Assuming that one transformer is to
be used with appropriate controller for whistle-equipped locos running
on AC and for other locos running on DC, the idea is to provide one
pair of wires from transformer to whistle controller and continuing
to one side of a DPDT switch. A second pair of wires runs from the
transformer (same posts) to the bridge rectifier. From the DC side
of the rectifier a pair of wires goes to the polarity-reversing switch
and then to the other side of the DPDT switch. This latter switch is
the "choice" switch. The center pair of switch terminals go to the
track. The "choice" switch may be thrown to the AC side or to the DC
side, depending on the operation desired.

Please communicate with me if you want more information.

Cheer`S'
Rhett
Group: S-Trains Message: 19012 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Duck
Cofa @... Wrote"What has this discussion have to do with trains?"




It has to do with trains because the person having the problems relays tons
of useful info to us all on this list. When I have a train problem, I ask for
help. If his computer is bad, he can't give me info I need.Since many of us
on the list get along so well, we don't see this as a problem. It's a shame
when someone is so easily irritated by something so useful.

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris
Group: S-Trains Message: 19013 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: What's this got to do with?
Some guys kit bash HO buildings for "S" gauge. They will remove an HO
size door in a structure and put in a "S" size door.

Gee, what does this have to do with trains? Just a retorical question...!
LOL!

CHRIS BURGER
THE TRAINNUT


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19014 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Re: Duck!
Hi,

That's what your 'delete' key is for.

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Hinds
Cc: slist
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 4:14 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Duck!


What has this discussion have to do with trains?

Why can't someone say, "I am having computer problems. Can someone
help me" Then get out of the train are and discuss it.
Same with e-bay subjects.


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All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19015 From: David Dewey Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Re: Duck! --my computer problems and S gauge--sorry!
Hi all,
Apparently my question to the group about my computer problems has
resulted in a drift away from train questions. My apologies. I asked the
question here because there isn't a nearby pool of knowledgeable people--I
already tried that! I also tried "on-line help" and got nowhere--and so I
turned to my friends, whom I trust. After all, if they are smart enough to
choose S gauge, they should know more than the average person on other
important stuff. And they apparently do!!
What did any of this have to do with S? Well, it was affecting my work on a
Dispatch Article and my participation in S-Chat.
So, many thanks to all who have posted me to offer very good
suggestions. Right now I am thinking of upgrading this system and saving my
money (goody, more train money!). Because of the generousity of my train
friends, this will cost me very little, and if it doesn't fix it, then I can
do the "big bucks" thing.
IF any of my friends have further suggestions, please post them to me
off-list for the groups' sake. This will be my last post to the groups about
this, except for a very short post when I have finally solved the computer
problem--just so anyone who is curious can have closure on it. (Gee, I just
used one of those PC "buzz" words--scary!)
Now we may return to our usual subjects--Many, many thanks to all.
S'incerely,
David Dewey
Group: S-Trains Message: 19016 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: OT: Re: Duck! --my computer problems and S gauge--sorry!
Now this is really off topic. But I warned everyone in the subject line!

David,

Gee, using that "closure" thing is almost as bad as "24/7". You must be from
California!

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


David Dewey wrote:

> Hi all,
> Apparently my question to the group about my computer problems has
> resulted in a drift away from train questions. My apologies. I asked the
> question here because there isn't a nearby pool of knowledgeable people--I
> already tried that! I also tried "on-line help" and got nowhere--and so I
> turned to my friends, whom I trust. After all, if they are smart enough to
> choose S gauge, they should know more than the average person on other
> important stuff. And they apparently do!!
> What did any of this have to do with S? Well, it was affecting my work on a
> Dispatch Article and my participation in S-Chat.
> So, many thanks to all who have posted me to offer very good
> suggestions. Right now I am thinking of upgrading this system and saving my
> money (goody, more train money!). Because of the generousity of my train
> friends, this will cost me very little, and if it doesn't fix it, then I can
> do the "big bucks" thing.
> IF any of my friends have further suggestions, please post them to me
> off-list for the groups' sake. This will be my last post to the groups about
> this, except for a very short post when I have finally solved the computer
> problem--just so anyone who is curious can have closure on it. (Gee, I just
> used one of those PC "buzz" words--scary!)
> Now we may return to our usual subjects--Many, many thanks to all.
> S'incerely,
> David Dewey
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
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>
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19017 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Re: Duck! --my computer problems and S gauge--sorry!
Hi,

IMO, you weren't out of line by posting the question. There was a connection to trains. I personally will not hesitate to post anything I'm curious or concerned about if it in any way connects to trains. Nor will I apologize for doing so. This includes subjects such as, but not limited to: eBay, computer problems preventing me from accessing or posting to the S-list or chat sessions, train shows, Flyer, hirail, personal train web sites, etc. I will, however, try to put a key word or two into my subject line out of courtesy so those who wish to do so may delete the note.

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: David Dewey
To: S-Scale ; S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 11:06 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Duck! --my computer problems and S gauge--sorry!


Hi all,
Apparently my question to the group about my computer problems has
resulted in a drift away from train questions. My apologies. I asked the
question here because there isn't a nearby pool of knowledgeable people--I
already tried that! I also tried "on-line help" and got nowhere--and so I
turned to my friends, whom I trust. After all, if they are smart enough to
choose S gauge, they should know more than the average person on other
important stuff. And they apparently do!!
What did any of this have to do with S? Well, it was affecting my work on a
Dispatch Article and my participation in S-Chat.
So, many thanks to all who have posted me to offer very good
suggestions. Right now I am thinking of upgrading this system and saving my
money (goody, more train money!). Because of the generousity of my train
friends, this will cost me very little, and if it doesn't fix it, then I can
do the "big bucks" thing.
IF any of my friends have further suggestions, please post them to me
off-list for the groups' sake. This will be my last post to the groups about
this, except for a very short post when I have finally solved the computer
problem--just so anyone who is curious can have closure on it. (Gee, I just
used one of those PC "buzz" words--scary!)
Now we may return to our usual subjects--Many, many thanks to all.
S'incerely,
David Dewey



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19018 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Re: Duck! --my computer problems and S gauge--sorry!
Well the question should be, is the computer involved an S gauge
computer? If so, it should be permited. :-)
Group: S-Trains Message: 19019 From: Steve Blancard Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Loads for an old time gondola
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions.

I like the idea of a stagecoach and mining equipment and will pursue
these. However, I did find an interesting HO "steam generator and
crates" load. I missed the winning bid but e-mailed the seller and he
had 2 more available so I bought one. I think he still has one left if
anyone else is interested.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=1719179419+

Even though it is HO, the ON30 flat cars are short and I think it will
look good. Maybe I can combine a stagecoach and the steam generator
stuff. What do you think?

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 19020 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: DUCK COMPLAINT
I find it funny that the Duck complainant did not put his Topic in the
subject box & then complains about it. Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19021 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: "Duck" & Computer Problems
I appreciate all the responses coming forth for Davids problem. I am
having similar problems and have already learned a few things that may
tweak my computers' performance. (David's computer puts mine to shame.)

If these posts were off-list, I'd continue to be completely clueless,
rather than just clueless.

Please don't squelch the chain.

Thanks,

Bill Trefts

(My ' ' ' may be in the wrong places. Please forgive me.)

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19022 From: theheadliner Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Re: Duck!
To avoid having to use your "end task" to shut down all those resource
consuming programs that run in the background, go to CNET
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10106-100-5943070.html?tag=st.dl.10001-
103-1.lst-7-1.5943070 and download PC Magazine's TrayManager. With it you
can shut off all those programns that don't need to be running and gain a
lot of speed. Use the "end task" first if you don't know what a particular
program does, in case it is needed to operate.

jerry
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get your free email at http://quickmail.quickhosts.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19023 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Re: "Duck" & Computer Problems
Hi,

I agree. I had similar problems that impacted my email and eBay. Thanks to all who contributed ideas to David. You've helped me get this old pc hulk running more reliably as well.

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: wmhtreftsv@...
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 7:04 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] "Duck" & Computer Problems


I appreciate all the responses coming forth for Davids problem. I am
having similar problems and have already learned a few things that may
tweak my computers' performance. (David's computer puts mine to shame.)

If these posts were off-list, I'd continue to be completely clueless,
rather than just clueless.

Please don't squelch the chain.

Thanks,

Bill Trefts

(My ' ' ' may be in the wrong places. Please forgive me.)

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

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All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19024 From: aglorince Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: train show north west pa sunday april 14.
edinboro railroadania and model train show sunday april 14 10am to 4
pm.
i 79 north exit 38/ mile post 165. us route 6 n at lakeside
commons.

i'll be there wit my american models inventory.
andy lorince.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19025 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: ROOM AT YORK?
I WON'T KNOW FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS YET...BUT IT LOOKS LIKE I WILL NOT BE ABLE
TO GO TO YORK...WILL KNOW BY SATURDAY....I HAVE A ROOM RESERVED WED AND THUR
NIGHTS IN YORK...CLOSE TO ALL MEETS...ITS 125.00 PER NIGHT...IF YOU NEED ONE
LET ME KNOW BEFORE I CANCEL IT...BOB CONNER
Group: S-Trains Message: 19026 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: ON30 FLAT
HAVE 3 AT 20.00 POSTPAID...LMK...BOB
HAVE 2 SETS AT 140.00 POSTPAID...LMK...BOB
Group: S-Trains Message: 19027 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: Re: ON30 FLAT
THATS EACH...SORRY....BOB
----- Original Message -----
From: "ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT" <rcon7@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 8:55 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] ON30 FLAT


> HAVE 3 AT 20.00 POSTPAID...LMK...BOB
> HAVE 2 SETS AT 140.00 POSTPAID...LMK...BOB
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19028 From: Gale Hall Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: needs
Evening all,

Well it appears the 12 Vegas I have must be the last 12 on the face of the earth, perhaps only 12 were made...I have decided to offer these rare cars for sale, 11 at $500.00 each and the last one ought to be worth more so I will offer it for $5000...rare as can be....all I need is three!!!!!!

gale hall


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19029 From: Tom Pennington Date: 4/10/2002
Subject: ultrasonic cleaning?
Anyone out there tried ultrasonic cleaning on locomotives or parts.
There is always some crevice full of crud you cannot get to and was
wondering if anyone had tried this, and what kind of fluid did you use.
Thanks, Tom

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

| May the road rise up to meet you May the wind be always at your
back |
| May the sun shine warm upon your face And the rains fall soft upon your
fields |
| And until we meet again May God hold you in the palm of his
hand. |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Group: S-Trains Message: 19030 From: David Dewey Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: ultrasonic cleaning?
Tom
Yes, I use one. I use a concotion of water and some low-suds detergents.
I forget just what I put in the batch! It does wonders on the parts, but I
find that I am suspect about leaving pul-mor tires in it very long. I still
have to do a little hand cleaning, but only where the grease is really caked
on.
I got my unit at a church rummage sale!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19031 From: bassflyer Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: On30 Xmas coaches I spoke of.....
Talking to Anita down at the local train store,...it turns out
that the Christmas coaches I spoke of at chat and here on the list,..
(The "North Pole and somethin' Express" I believe), are not for sale
by themselves, only in a set with track and loco. They do
have "Winter Wonderland" coaches, but not as nice, IMHO, as the
white, red, and green North Pole ones. Soooo....guess who put a down
payment on a $160.00 set today? Couldn't resist!! After running the
set for a while with the HO track,..I might sell the loco and put SHS
trucks on the coaches,..which is what I wanted to do in the first
place!
The whole set is very nice looking I think,...you can view a pic
at the Bachmann site.

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19032 From: bassflyer Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: ultrasonic cleaning?
I only have a small unit,...but have cleaned quite a few
rolling stock bodies as well as the frames, trucks, couplers, etc.
However, I have noticed the trucks, I guess I should say, the
journals, sides, whatever,..seemed to take on a lighter, bluer shade.
After shaking as much water off of them, I use a hair dryer,... and
YES, I still need a hair dryer for myself! Just not as many hairs to
dry anymore!
Also works great on 1/64th vehicles that you may find at swap
meets or in a sandbox! Cleans them up real good! Just make sure you
dry them out.

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19033 From: bassflyer Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: ultrasonic cleaning?
I forgot to mention that I use plain old dish soap with
water,...and some ammonia (sp?) can be used I suppose,...my cousin
who used to make a lot jewelry, used ammonia when cleaning jewelry in
his cleaner,..his has a heater and a timer ,...he wouldn't sell me
THAT one, but he did sell me a smaller unit!

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19034 From: yazfacts Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: 21168 troubles...
Dear Group,
I recently bought a Casey Jones 21168 engine.I am having
problems with it.It seems that when ever I go into a right -hand
manuel switch the engines dies out.I hace already changed the brass
wheels (the 21168 has pul-mor tires,smoke and choo-choo ) and fooled
around with the width of the wheels on the axle.The problem that I
see is that the minute the left back tender wheel runs over the
plastic triangle in front of the frog ,it looses contact and stops
running.I have another set of manuel switches on my layout and no
problems with them.Does anyone know what the problem could be ? Need
weight in the tender ? Metal over the plastic triangle by the frog ?
Please let me know.Thanks as always.........Bob S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19035 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1417
Gee David, what are friends for?

John Griffin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19036 From: Scott Holm Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: 21168 troubles...
--- yazfacts <YAZFACTS@...> wrote:
> The problem that I see is that the minute the left back tender wheel
runs over the plastic triangle in front of the frog ,it looses contact
and stops running.

I would guess that the truck is crooked and needs to be bent back to
square. When one wheel of a truck goes over the plastic point, the
other wheel of the same truck should still be in contact with the rail.
You need to find out what the problem is with that other wheel. You
could run it until it stops and then examine whether the wheel is
touching the rail, or perhaps there is crud on the rail preventing
contact. Sometimes the crud is confined to a small spot that's in just
the right place. Clean the top and inside of the rail with contact cleaner.

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19037 From: David Dewey Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: 21168 troubles...
Bob,
Check the truck to make sure both axles are parallel (if the tender has
die-cast trucks). the trucks can become "tweaked" so not all 4 wheels are on
the track at once. The other thing that can happen is the insulating
bushings can be coming apart, allowing the trucks to rock more than they
should. This seems to cause all sorts of intermittent power pick-up
problems. Trucks should be free to rotate, but not to rock.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19038 From: John A. Conant Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: my computer problems and S gauge--sorry! (not)
--On Wednesday, April 10, 2002 9:54 PM +0000 S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
wisely declaimed:

> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:44:11 -0400
> From: Chuck Harrington <myflyertrains@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Duck! --my computer problems and S gauge--sorry!
>
> Well the question should be, is the computer involved an S gauge
> computer? If so, it should be permited. :-)

Good point! Now for example, my desktop computer IS really an S scale
machine, because the one I would like to have would be 64 times larger:

- a Pentium CXCII processor operating at 46.9 GHz with 33 Gb of RAM (yes,
I
actually DO have 512Mb in my S-scale version here...)
- a 1.9 Tb hard drive
- dual boot between Windows XXXXXXP and Red Hat Linux 71.2
- a 91 ft monitor

Unfortunately, that machine still isn't powerful enough to run MS Office
2066, which comes with 20 Tb of clip art, and the 4D holographic
task-assistant virtual dog...

Regards,

John Conant

=======================================================================
jconant@... "An expert is a [person] who has made all
John Conant the mistakes which can be made in a very
Aerodyne Research, Inc. narrow field" - Niels Bohr (attrib.)
Billerica, MA 01821
(978)663-9500, ext. 292 FAX (978)663-4918
=======================================================================
Group: S-Trains Message: 19039 From: Ted Larson Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Prototype Data
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:50:07 EDT
From: HAWK0621@...
Subject: Railway Prototype Cyclopedia, Vol. 7

Steam Era Freightcars List Subscribers,

The RP CYC Publishing Company is pleased to announce the impending
release of RAILWAY PROTOTYPE CYCLOPEDIA, Volume 7, currently planned
for
distribution in mid-May 2002.

Volume 7 is loaded with 104 pages of useful prototype information,
including more than 180 photographs and illustrations. Volume 7
contains articles on the following subjects:

BR & BS Express Refrigerator Cars (77 pages of history, data, photos,
and roster of these important, interesting, and sometimes unique cars
used in passenger express service) EMD F3 Phase III Diesel Locomotives
(7 pages of additional specs, photos, & tables in this continuing
series)
AC&F Type 27 10,500-Gallon ICC-105A Propane Tank Cars (20 pages of
photos and documentation from the original AC&F bills of materials on
these distinctive and interesting cars)

The normal retail price for Volume 7 is $24.95. The retail price has
been increased by $3.00 due to higher production costs, including
additional color contained in Volume 7, and increases in postage
imposed on us by the USPS.
However, we are offering a special pre-publication price of only $19.95

(postpaid) - a 20-percent discount. But we must receive your payment
by
May 10, 2002 for this offer to be valid.

To take advantage of this one-time pre-publication offer for RP CYC
Volume 7, please send a check or money order for $19.95 by May 10, 2002
to:
RP CYC Publishing Co.
P.O. Box 451
Chesterfield, MO 63006-0451

Missouri residents, please add 6.575% state sales tax ($21.10
postpaid).

For additional information please visit our web site at
http://hometown.aol.com/rpcyc/rpcychome.html. Please report any web
site problems to me at Hawk0621@... or RPCYC2@....

If you have any questions, please reply off-list. On behalf of Pat
Wider, we thank you.
Ed Hawkins

=====
Ted Larson

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19040 From: Ted Larson Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Fwd: Updated ATHS web site
Truck lovers, here's info for detailing the trucks on your layout.
Ted

--- Gene Musselman <docmussy@
> Subject: Updated ATHS web site
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:45:42 -0500
>
> Hi again Ted,
>
> Just a followup note to let you know that I now have the 2001 Reno
> truck pictures on my site. There is a whole new batch you can
> look thru.
> http://members.tripod.com/docmussy/id22.htm
> Also, note my email address change.
>
> Have a nice day...
> Gene Musselman
> docmussy@

=====
Ted Larson

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19041 From: Rhett T. George Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: AC and DC outa the same transformer
- Greeting`S' -

Several folks responded to a question posed by Chris on running a loco
on AC, then parking it on a de-energized siding and running a DC, maybe
polarity reverse loco. It is easy to do. However, put the "choice"
DPDT switch on the track side of the bridge rectifier from whence cometh
the DC, not the transformer side. Leave the rectifier AC terminals
connected to the transformer all the time. It is designed for that
service. What is to be avoided is connecting AC to the DC side of the
bridge rectifier. The plus terminal should never go negative with respect
to the minus side. [Well, not more than 1.2 V negative, a silicon property.]
The transformer, on the other hand, wants the variable side to go as
negative with respect to the base as it goes in the positive direction.
It and the bridge rectifier will get into a smoky battle if the AC path
and the DC output are permanently tied together at the track.

Repeating the earlier instruction, put the AC vs DC "choice" switch on
the track side of the rectifier. This way the AC may go to the track or
the DC may go, but the two cannot be connected together.

Cheer`S'
Rhett
Group: S-Trains Message: 19042 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC outa the same transformer
An easier way is to have 2 transformers hooked to a switch that will turn one
transformer off and the other on as you flick the switch one way or the other.

What will happen if you forget to switch the power and try to run the loco
on the wrong kind of current ???
Will it burn out the motor. Perhaps it is best to stick to one kind of current.
At a NASG performance contest, the people in charge insisted my AF loco
being tested will be OK on the DC track. No AC current was available for the
contest.
Anyway my motor burned out. If anyone says running AC on DC is OK, don't
believe them. I don't care how much of an expert the person claims they
are. You are taking a chance.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 19043 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC outa the same transformer
Hi,

You may be right. Then again, it may have been a coincidence. Your posting was the first on this list I have seen about a Flyer motor burning out when run on DC current. Has anyone else experienced this? It is my understanding that the Gilbert motors were designed to run on either AC or DC. I have been running all my steamers on DC for one year hard now with no burnouts. I use five #8b transformers in phase (thanks Chris!), rated at 100 watts, 15 volts max each. I am more inclined to think a voltage surge could have been the culprit in your unfortunate experience.

Have you repaired the motor yet? Rewinding fields and armatures isn't as daunting as it sounds. I know from experience a hand-wound field doesn't have to look text-book perfect to work well. After I am done rebuilding a motor, I test it on my track at 12 volts with an ammeter. If the loco runs at or better than spec, I'm very, very happy. In case anyone is wondering, the motor rebuilds I've done weren't 'cuz I burned them out. I like to buy hulks and get them running again. It makes me feel a bit like I'm doing car mechanics in miniature. Vroom. Vroom.

Regards,
Tim

Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html

----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Hinds
To: Rhett T. George
Cc: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] AC and DC outa the same transformer


An easier way is to have 2 transformers hooked to a switch that will turn one
transformer off and the other on as you flick the switch one way or the other.

What will happen if you forget to switch the power and try to run the loco
on the wrong kind of current ???
Will it burn out the motor. Perhaps it is best to stick to one kind of current.
At a NASG performance contest, the people in charge insisted my AF loco
being tested will be OK on the DC track. No AC current was available for the
contest.
Anyway my motor burned out. If anyone says running AC on DC is OK, don't
believe them. I don't care how much of an expert the person claims they
are. You are taking a chance.

Roger


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All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19044 From: Chuck Smith Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC outa the same transformer
Running on DC will NOT burn out a Flyer AC motor. There was some other
problem.

Tim Brown wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> You may be right. Then again, it may have been a coincidence. Your posting was the first on this list I have seen about a Flyer motor burning out when run on DC current. Has anyone else experienced this? It is my understanding that the Gilbert motors were designed to run on either AC or DC. I have been running all my steamers on DC for one year hard now with no burnouts. I use five #8b transformers in phase (thanks Chris!), rated at 100 watts, 15 volts max each. I am more inclined to think a voltage surge could have been the culprit in your unfortunate experience.
>
> Have you repaired the motor yet? Rewinding fields and armatures isn't as daunting as it sounds. I know from experience a hand-wound field doesn't have to look text-book perfect to work well. After I am done rebuilding a motor, I test it on my track at 12 volts with an ammeter. If the loco runs at or better than spec, I'm very, very happy. In case anyone is wondering, the motor rebuilds I've done weren't 'cuz I burned them out. I like to buy hulks and get them running again. It makes me feel a bit like I'm doing car mechanics in miniature. Vroom. Vroom.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
> Please visit my web page at:
> http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roger Hinds
> To: Rhett T. George
> Cc: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 12:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] AC and DC outa the same transformer
>
> An easier way is to have 2 transformers hooked to a switch that will turn one
> transformer off and the other on as you flick the switch one way or the other.
>
> What will happen if you forget to switch the power and try to run the loco
> on the wrong kind of current ???
> Will it burn out the motor. Perhaps it is best to stick to one kind of current.
> At a NASG performance contest, the people in charge insisted my AF loco
> being tested will be OK on the DC track. No AC current was available for the
> contest.
> Anyway my motor burned out. If anyone says running AC on DC is OK, don't
> believe them. I don't care how much of an expert the person claims they
> are. You are taking a chance.
>
> Roger
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 19045 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC outa the same transformer
Roger,
I have been running my universal motor flyer engines on AC and DC for years
and have never burned up a motor. Now as far as putting AC to a DC motor and
Vice/versa , That's a whole new ballgame.

CHRIS BURGER
THE TRAINNUT


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19046 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC outa the same transformer
In a message dated 4/11/02 8:18:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
cesmith@... writes:


> Running on DC will NOT burn out a Flyer AC motor. There was some other
> problem.
>
Chuck, There are some straight AC gilbert mortos and some straight DC gilbert
motors if I'm not all messed up here. I think running a DC motor on AC will
burn it out and running a AC motor on DC will do the same. I do know the
lights will light up on both! Where are the GURUS when you need them?

CHRIS BURGER
THE TRAINNUT


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19047 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Ultrasonic
Isopropyl alcohol mixed with freon is the cleaner of choice for ultrasonics,
however, freon isn't in favor any more for many reasons. Still, the alcohol
is wonderful. Use the 70%.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19048 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: It's here!
No, I did not abscond with all your money just before York. (How nice that
would be, hmmmmm!) The Caig order has arrived!

Along with your tubs of Cramolin paste, Susan Prenatt enclosed a sample pack
of the De-Oxit cleaner and a catalog of current products. I will also make
sure you have some instuctions for use.

I plan to pack and mail these on Saturday so they should be in your hot
little hands early next week. I will sure be glad when this job is done!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19049 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: my computer problems and S gauge--sorry! (not)
>my desktop computer IS really an S scale
>machine, because the one I would like to have would be 64 times larger:

Now that was a funny post!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19050 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC outa the same transformer
In a message dated 4/11/02 8:35:20 PM, Cbtrainnut1@... writes:

<< I'm not all messed up here. I think running a DC motor on AC will burn it
out and running a AC motor on DC will do the same. >>

Nope. Gilbert DC motors are to be operated using DC only -- Gilbert AC motors
are universal and can be run on either AC or DC.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 19051 From: Chuck Smith Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC outa the same transformer
I didn't say you could run a DC motor on AC!
You CAN run any AC or DC locomotive motor on DC without burning it out.
You cannot tun the Barrel Loader with the synchronous AC motor on DC.

Cbtrainnut1@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 4/11/02 8:18:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> cesmith@... writes:
>
> > Running on DC will NOT burn out a Flyer AC motor. There was some other
> > problem.
> >
> Chuck, There are some straight AC gilbert mortos and some straight DC gilbert
> motors if I'm not all messed up here. I think running a DC motor on AC will
> burn it out and running a AC motor on DC will do the same. I do know the
> lights will light up on both! Where are the GURUS when you need them?
>
> CHRIS BURGER
> THE TRAINNUT
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 19052 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC outa the same transformer
I run all my accessories on AC and all my locos on DC. The transformers don't seem to mind receiving AC and DC current through the base posts at the same time.

-Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Smith
To: Cbtrainnut1@...
Cc: s-trains
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] AC and DC outa the same transformer


I didn't say you could run a DC motor on AC!
You CAN run any AC or DC locomotive motor on DC without burning it out.
You cannot tun the Barrel Loader with the synchronous AC motor on DC.

Cbtrainnut1@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 4/11/02 8:18:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> cesmith@... writes:
>
> > Running on DC will NOT burn out a Flyer AC motor. There was some other
> > problem.
> >
> Chuck, There are some straight AC gilbert mortos and some straight DC gilbert
> motors if I'm not all messed up here. I think running a DC motor on AC will
> burn it out and running a AC motor on DC will do the same. I do know the
> lights will light up on both! Where are the GURUS when you need them?
>
> CHRIS BURGER
> THE TRAINNUT
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19053 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: ac/dc
I didn't say you could run a DC motor on AC!
You CAN run any AC or DC locomotive motor on DC without burning it out.
You cannot tun the Barrel Loader with the synchronous AC motor on DC.


Sorry Chuck, I must have misread something in the first e-mail. I'm tearing
down my portable layout to take to Akron Ohio, and have been reading the
posts rather quickly. Again Sorry!

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19054 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Akron and Dayton S-spree
Hi All,
Just a quick note before I load up the truck to leave for Akron tomorrow. If
anyone is going to the GATS show there, please stop by and say hello. I will
be there by myself this weekend and will be glad to talk with anyone. I will
have the 4X12 Christmas layout running again.
Another note. the S-Spree in Dayton Ohio is fast approaching. For those not
familiar check out the Miami Valley website for
info.http://www.mvsg.freehomepage.com/ or
<A HREF="http://www.mvsg.freehomepage.com/">Click here: Miami Valley S Gaugers</A> . We have a great Kahns Billboard
Reefer in 2 numbers done by S-Helper for us. It is MUCH NICER than the other
Kahns car out there on the market. But, if you already have that one, these
cars will compliment that one very nicely. We also have some great speakers
ready for the spree also. The middletown Historical Society will be running
an exhibit the same week as the spree featuring (shameless plug) my
Christmas layout. Lots of great stuff and some really nice people too. If
anyone has questions let me know. Gotta run.




There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19055 From: joe messinger Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Volt meters & reverse units
Awhile back, I picked up a 30-B transformer that had been in a flood. After
cleaning it up, I was surprised to find that it worked! The volt meters,
however, were shot. I tried to find a source for replacement meters but, no
luck. Lots of DC meters available but nothing that I know of that is
analog, 0-18 volts, 1 1/2" dia. round and AC.

Finally, I tried a Sunpro "mini" voltmeter which is all of the above except
it is DC. I hooked up a full wave bridge rectifier to the posts on the
meter and connected the wires from the (damaged and discarded) original
meter to the AC leads on the rectifier. It works just fine. Not a pure
restoration but the Sunpro meter looks good, functions well and is even
illuminated. Sunpro offers a 1 1/2" DC ammeter which I think I'll try in
the other hole. I'm not sure about that one, so I'll let you know how it
works out. I realize (if the ammeter works) one side of the 30-B will only
show voltage output and the other amps only but it still might be useful
that way.

Also, I tried adding a small, lead weight to the plate under the solenoid
which operates the lever that sequences the drum (there's gotta' be a short
name for that thing!) on the reverse unit. Seems the major problem with
sticking or sluggish reverse units is that the plate fails to return to it's
bottom position. The solenoid has plenty of power to lift the plate but it
depends on gravity for the return trip. A piece of 3/8" x 3/8" lead that is
3/32" thick makes the plate drop like a 60 year old prize fighter. The
reverse units I've added weights to all work rapidly and without
malfunction.

For Sunpro volt/ammeters have a look at their web site:
http:www.actron.com/whitegauge.htm

Small sheets of various thicknesses of lead can be purchased at most craft
stores. Flat, brass stock will work also. Cut to size and attach them to
the reverse unit plate with a drop of super glue.

Perhaps the above is old news to many but, hopefully, it might be of some
use to others. My thanks to Bob Foster for the tip on adding weight to the
reverse unit.

Regards,

Joe Messinger
Morgantown, Wv

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19056 From: Bruce Crosby Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: Volt meters & reverse units
Joe M:

Try Carb cleaner on your sticky solenoid to clean it.........other
cleaner....... Contact Cleaner(radio shack)..........usually solves allot of
ills...........may have to do it a couple of times, but usually solves
problem......Once cleaned, don't use any lubricant on solenoid. I have
found that very bad operating E Units can usually be fixed with this method
without any other tinkering..............

Bruce C
Minnesota
abcrosby@...
NMRA# 114573


----- Original Message -----
From: "joe messinger" <jmessinger@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 10:16 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Volt meters & reverse units


>
>
> Awhile back, I picked up a 30-B transformer that had been in a flood.
After
> cleaning it up, I was surprised to find that it worked! The volt meters,
> however, were shot. I tried to find a source for replacement meters but,
no
> luck. Lots of DC meters available but nothing that I know of that is
> analog, 0-18 volts, 1 1/2" dia. round and AC.
>
> Finally, I tried a Sunpro "mini" voltmeter which is all of the above
except
> it is DC. I hooked up a full wave bridge rectifier to the posts on the
> meter and connected the wires from the (damaged and discarded) original
> meter to the AC leads on the rectifier. It works just fine. Not a pure
> restoration but the Sunpro meter looks good, functions well and is even
> illuminated. Sunpro offers a 1 1/2" DC ammeter which I think I'll try in
> the other hole. I'm not sure about that one, so I'll let you know how it
> works out. I realize (if the ammeter works) one side of the 30-B will
only
> show voltage output and the other amps only but it still might be useful
> that way.
>
> Also, I tried adding a small, lead weight to the plate under the solenoid
> which operates the lever that sequences the drum (there's gotta' be a
short
> name for that thing!) on the reverse unit. Seems the major problem with
> sticking or sluggish reverse units is that the plate fails to return to
it's
> bottom position. The solenoid has plenty of power to lift the plate but
it
> depends on gravity for the return trip. A piece of 3/8" x 3/8" lead that
is
> 3/32" thick makes the plate drop like a 60 year old prize fighter. The
> reverse units I've added weights to all work rapidly and without
> malfunction.
>
> For Sunpro volt/ammeters have a look at their web site:
> http:www.actron.com/whitegauge.htm
>
> Small sheets of various thicknesses of lead can be purchased at most craft
> stores. Flat, brass stock will work also. Cut to size and attach them to
> the reverse unit plate with a drop of super glue.
>
> Perhaps the above is old news to many but, hopefully, it might be of some
> use to others. My thanks to Bob Foster for the tip on adding weight to
the
> reverse unit.
>
> Regards,
>
> Joe Messinger
> Morgantown, Wv
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19057 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: AC and DC ---& rewinding
I new a few of you would disagree with me.

I should have mentioned, that the guys power supply (at the NASG convention)
was at 18 volts. It was not a train transformer.
I don't know what the Amps of the transformer was. Maybe
overrated for the AC loco. Anyway I figure If I got an AC loco why take a chance.
and use DC when I have an AC transformer.

About rewinding advice; The guys giving advice talk about OHMs, and the size of
the wire. None of that helps me. And I am sure there are others that can't rewind
based on formula's given. A person needs to be into electronics to understand
it.
Why can't someone that understands that stuff make a chart
for rewinding?

Loco #290 coil needs wire code 33 wire at 50 winds.
The armature wire. code 30 at 60 winds

Now that I would understand instantly without going nuts trying to figure
out someone's formulas that might as well be written in greek.

I rewound a coil using the same size diameter wire, I got from radio shack
same number of feet. Nothing happened. I wasted my time and money.
I sent the coil to an "S"gauge person to rewind. The coil smoked as soon
as I tried it. Everything was running free in the loco. I bought another coil
from a supplier and it worked.
I realize today's wire is rated different. I have no way of knowing what the
difference is, so I can allow for it.
Like I said above. A simple chart would be of great help to me and others.
If someone does you have my thanks.

Roger

Chuck Smith wrote:

> Running on DC will NOT burn out a Flyer AC motor. There was some other
> problem.
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19058 From: David Dewey Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: Volt meters & reverse units
Joe,
Most reverse units hang up because the sharp edges of the hole the brass
finger rides in have formed a groove in the brass finger. Not much of a
groove, but just enough to jam it against the hole, so it hangs. If you take
a small jeweler's file and round the sharp edges, and smooth out the finger,
they will usually function just as ACG intended (if they aren't gunked up
with other attempts at "lubricating")
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19059 From: David Dewey Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC ---& rewinding
Roger,
Bob Hannon's book has all the charts for almost everything AF
electrical. He shows wire sizes and number of turns, as well as the
direction to wind. It's a super book. Rewinding does take patience!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19060 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/11/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC ---& rewinding
Thanks David;
Anyone have that book available?

David Dewey wrote:

> Roger,
> Bob Hannon's book has all the charts for almost everything AF
> electrical. He shows wire sizes and number of turns, as well as the
> direction to wind. It's a super book. Rewinding does take patience!
> S'
> David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19061 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Re: Volt meters & reverse units
Hi,

It was also discussed some months ago about putting a couple small squares of masking tape between the plate and the bottom of the coil to act as a buffer and let the plate drop down.

Regards,
Tim

Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html

----- Original Message -----
From: joe messinger
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 11:16 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Volt meters & reverse units




Awhile back, I picked up a 30-B transformer that had been in a flood. After
cleaning it up, I was surprised to find that it worked! The volt meters,
however, were shot. I tried to find a source for replacement meters but, no
luck. Lots of DC meters available but nothing that I know of that is
analog, 0-18 volts, 1 1/2" dia. round and AC.

Finally, I tried a Sunpro "mini" voltmeter which is all of the above except
it is DC. I hooked up a full wave bridge rectifier to the posts on the
meter and connected the wires from the (damaged and discarded) original
meter to the AC leads on the rectifier. It works just fine. Not a pure
restoration but the Sunpro meter looks good, functions well and is even
illuminated. Sunpro offers a 1 1/2" DC ammeter which I think I'll try in
the other hole. I'm not sure about that one, so I'll let you know how it
works out. I realize (if the ammeter works) one side of the 30-B will only
show voltage output and the other amps only but it still might be useful
that way.

Also, I tried adding a small, lead weight to the plate under the solenoid
which operates the lever that sequences the drum (there's gotta' be a short
name for that thing!) on the reverse unit. Seems the major problem with
sticking or sluggish reverse units is that the plate fails to return to it's
bottom position. The solenoid has plenty of power to lift the plate but it
depends on gravity for the return trip. A piece of 3/8" x 3/8" lead that is
3/32" thick makes the plate drop like a 60 year old prize fighter. The
reverse units I've added weights to all work rapidly and without
malfunction.

For Sunpro volt/ammeters have a look at their web site:
http:www.actron.com/whitegauge.htm

Small sheets of various thicknesses of lead can be purchased at most craft
stores. Flat, brass stock will work also. Cut to size and attach them to
the reverse unit plate with a drop of super glue.

Perhaps the above is old news to many but, hopefully, it might be of some
use to others. My thanks to Bob Foster for the tip on adding weight to the
reverse unit.

Regards,

Joe Messinger
Morgantown, Wv

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19062 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC ---& rewinding
Hi,

Here's a chart from Greenberg's American Flyer S Gauge 1945 -1965 Repair and Operating Manual by Thomas B. Barker:

FIELD AND ARMATURE WIRE GAUGES AND LENGTHS

Application Wire Gauge Length Needed

Steam Fields #24 40 feet
Steam Armatures #26 Three-11 foot pieces
Diesel Fields #26 35 feet
Diesel Armatures #30 Three-7 1/2 foot pieces

The wire is enameled magnet wire. Be sure to scrape off the enamel coating from the very ends before testing/using so it will conduct electricity.

Hope I don't get into trouble for reproducing the above w/o the author's permission. BUY THE BOOK!

Regards,
Tim

Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html

----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Hinds
Cc: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 6:56 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] AC and DC ---& rewinding


I new a few of you would disagree with me.

I should have mentioned, that the guys power supply (at the NASG convention)
was at 18 volts. It was not a train transformer.
I don't know what the Amps of the transformer was. Maybe
overrated for the AC loco. Anyway I figure If I got an AC loco why take a chance.
and use DC when I have an AC transformer.

About rewinding advice; The guys giving advice talk about OHMs, and the size of
the wire. None of that helps me. And I am sure there are others that can't rewind
based on formula's given. A person needs to be into electronics to understand
it.
Why can't someone that understands that stuff make a chart
for rewinding?

Loco #290 coil needs wire code 33 wire at 50 winds.
The armature wire. code 30 at 60 winds

Now that I would understand instantly without going nuts trying to figure
out someone's formulas that might as well be written in greek.

I rewound a coil using the same size diameter wire, I got from radio shack
same number of feet. Nothing happened. I wasted my time and money.
I sent the coil to an "S"gauge person to rewind. The coil smoked as soon
as I tried it. Everything was running free in the loco. I bought another coil
from a supplier and it worked.
I realize today's wire is rated different. I have no way of knowing what the
difference is, so I can allow for it.
Like I said above. A simple chart would be of great help to me and others.
If someone does you have my thanks.

Roger

Chuck Smith wrote:

> Running on DC will NOT burn out a Flyer AC motor. There was some other
> problem.
>


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19063 From: joshseltzer Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: NASG 2002 Convention Hotel room information. Rooms are still open
I have seen a few messages about some problems with room
reservations. The hotel sent me a fax yesterday confirming that 14
non-smoking-kings ands 24 non-smoking double doubles are available.
If there is any reservation problem get the name of the reservation
agent and all details and let us know.
I recommend that you call the hotel direct for reservations 440-238-
8800.

Josh Seltzer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19064 From: David Dewey Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC ---& rewinding
Well, I hate to say this, but Tom B's info is faulty!
Steam Armature wire size varied from 25 to 29, although almost all AC
versions used 27
Diesels also varied from 30 to 31 (although I personally doubt the
difference would matter much).
Bob Hannon's book covers all of these neat and important details. If you
don't have a copy, go to: www.trainrefs.com and order one! (That is, if you
are interested in repairing the electrical componants, the book is only
about electrical stuff)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19065 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC ---& rewinding
In a message dated 4/12/02 11:18:04 AM, djdewey@... writes:

<< Bob Hannon's book covers all of these neat and important details. If you
don't have a copy, go to: www.trainrefs.com and order one! (That is, if you
are interested in repairing the electrical componants, the book is only
about electrical stuff) >>

Bob did a great job with this book. If you are going to perform repairs on
Gilbert as part of your S gauge activities, it is money well-spent -- costs
far less than one piece of decent Gilbert rolling stock.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 19066 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC ---& rewinding
I think Bob's book is fantastic! I bought it just for the reference material,
basically so I can do electrical checks to see if the various coils and armatures are
within specs. Don't intend to wind my own stuff as long as there is someone like Bob
to do it for me.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


rbubeck327@... wrote:

> In a message dated 4/12/02 11:18:04 AM, djdewey@... writes:
>
> << Bob Hannon's book covers all of these neat and important details. If you
> don't have a copy, go to: www.trainrefs.com and order one! (That is, if you
> are interested in repairing the electrical componants, the book is only
> about electrical stuff) >>
>
> Bob did a great job with this book. If you are going to perform repairs on
> Gilbert as part of your S gauge activities, it is money well-spent -- costs
> far less than one piece of decent Gilbert rolling stock.
>
> RB
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19067 From: Scott Holm Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: WD-40 armature damage
I recently got a Lionel 182 electromagnetic crane and when I tried to
operate it, it would start smoking and running terribly. After pulling
it apart I discovered there were shorts occurring between the
commutator plates and the whole motor seemed to be covered with a film
of oil. I'm almost certain that a former owner must have sprayed the
whole thing with WD-40. Examining the armature shows that holes have
formed in the material that holds the commutator plates at the ends of
the slots. The holes are the result of arcing through the oil and crud
that's between the plates. After trying to dig out the crud and spray
it with solvent, it's still arcing, so it looks like it's time for a
new armature, unless anybody has any suggestions?

Bob Hannon warned of this in post a while back:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/message/8216

I can attest to the accuracy of his remarks.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19068 From: af21115 Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Re: Duck! PC Clean-up
You don't need to go to that trouble to stop programs from running in
the background. Just click START, then RUN. Type in MSCONFIG and
click OK. When the control window opens click the STARTUP tab.
Uncheck anything you don't want or need running automatically when
Windows starts. Works for Win 98 and later. Not sure about Win 95.
Sorry for the delay in responding, been terrible sick the last two
days.



--- In S-Trains@y..., "theheadliner" <theheadliner@q...> wrote:
> To avoid having to use your "end task" to shut down all those
resource
> consuming programs that run in the background, go to CNET
> http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10106-100-5943070.html?
tag=st.dl.10001-
> 103-1.lst-7-1.5943070 and download PC Magazine's TrayManager. With
it you
> can shut off all those programns that don't need to be running and
gain a
> lot of speed. Use the "end task" first if you don't know what a
particular
> program does, in case it is needed to operate.
>
> jerry
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> Get your free email at http://quickmail.quickhosts.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19069 From: Rhett T. George Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: That thingy
- Greeting`S' -

Yes, Joe, that thingy has a name. It is the reverser armature.
Making it fall reliably is the secret.

Cheer`S'
Rhett
Group: S-Trains Message: 19070 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Loco armature wire sizes
Hi,

I have Bob Hannon's First Edition S-Gauge Reference Manual. I noticed that a lot of common loco armatures take a #27 gauge wire. Exceptions are: the XA10476 and XA110011 (29 GG used in DC versions of the 332 & 342); XA13B926 (26 GG used in 343 & 346); XA12A523 (25 GG used in 313, 326, 336); XA14B816 (25 GG used in 21129, 21130, 21139, 21149); XA14B719 (both 27 & 28 GG used in "all 5-digit locos"); and XA30B168 (both 27 and 28 GG "Casey Jones").

If we rule out all Challengers and all Casey Jones (or other 5-digit) locos, what do we have left? Basically, most loco armatures take either a #25 or #27 gauge enameled wire. My question is: Would using a #26 gauge wire in all but the noted exceptions give good results? David mentioned not seeing a whole lot of difference between one gauge size. I'm trying to boil this down to a matter of practicality for the average hobbyist. I don't want to stock a dozen different gauges of magnet wire. Let me put this another way: If you HAD to choose one gauge wire to rewind armatures with, what size wire would that be and how confident would you be in the way they would operate?

Let's see how this flies before looking at field wire sizes.

Regards,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19071 From: Doug Peck Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Re: Hannon book
Anyone have that book available?

David Dewey wrote:

> Roger,
> Bob Hannon's book has all the charts for almost everything AF
> electrical. He shows wire sizes and number of turns, as well as the
> direction to wind. It's a super book. Rewinding does take patience!
> S'

We carry it in stock.
It is a GREAT reference, for the person who needs that type of information!

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST weeknights.
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please.)
Website: www.portlines.com
E-mail: doug@...
VISA--MASTERCARD--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19072 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC ---& rewinding
There is a book out by Robert Hannon of Clarksville, MD on AF fields and
armatures and rewindings. This could be very helpful to you.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19073 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC ---& rewinding
Anybody else know about this book?

HOwingsiii@... wrote:

> There is a book out by Robert Hannon of Clarksville, MD on AF fields and
> armatures and rewindings. This could be very helpful to you.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19074 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, April 14, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19075 From: Steve Blancard Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: 759 Danger light and bell - a sticky situation
The bell on my 759 danger signal doesn't ring all the time. Sometimes
the little rod inside the coil (a clapper?) that hits the bell sticks in
the up position, against the bell. Apparently it should go up and down
as power goes on and off. But when it sticks in the up position I get
no "ding-ding-ding". I have sprayed the rod with electrical contact
cleaner which helped a little but it still hangs up. Is it safe to put
a drop of instrument oil on it? If not, what can I do ?

Thanks,
Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 19076 From: bm957 Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Lionel Rock Island
Does anyone forsee this offering in the Lionel 2002 catalog has being
a poor runner? Any idea what kind of motor they will have in it? I
guess I cannot expect slow speed performance to be all that
good...but I am thinking of getting this loco. I am fairly new to S
scale...as you can probably tell...but I am excited about getting a
layout up and running...
thanks!
Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 19077 From: s6g2p Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: GRAB IRONS FOR AMERICAN MODEL SD60
DOES ANYBODY KNOW WERE I CAN GET THE GRAB IRONS FOR AMERICAN MODELS
SD60. I HAVE A CUSTOM PAINTED SD60 BUT CAN NOT GET THE GRAB IRONS
THAT GO WITH IT FROM AMERICAN MODELS AFTER SERVERAL CALLS AND E-MAILS
IF I CAN GET THEM SOMEWERE ELSE PLEASE LET ME KNOW THANKS
Group: S-Trains Message: 19078 From: jahoozdumm Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC ---& rewinding
Roger Hinds Wrote:

>Anybody else know about this book?


Mmmm... not sure. Wasn't there a similar book out by some guy
named "Hannon" or something? I think there was...


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19079 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: AC and DC ---& rewinding
>The guys power supply was at 18 volts. It was not a train transformer.
>I don't know what the Amps of the transformer was. Maybe
>overrated for the AC loco. Anyway I figure If I got an AC loco why take a
chance.
>and use DC when I have an AC transformer.

18 volts is fine. There is really no such thing as a train transformer,
only transformers (at least electrically speaking). Amps is a function of
load. The guy's transformer may have been capable of delivering a lot of
amperage, but your engine would still only draw what it needed. American
Flyer locos were intended for use on AC or DC power. There is no element of
chance involved. The motor is happy on either. It is entirely possible,
however, that your mans transformer was delivering some odd square wave or
other chopped form of AC. Electronics have changed electricity from pure
sine wave AC and flatline DC to some new strange animals that are neither.
This may require a review of the term "universal" as it applies to motors.

> The guys giving advice talk about OHMs, and the size of
> the wire. None of that helps me. And I am sure there are others that can't
rewind
> based on formula's given. A person needs to be into electronics to
understand it.

Ohms is a value of resistance. It is useful in that the manufacturer will
give the ohm rating of a coil and using an ohmmeter (VOM, Volt-Ohm Meter)
you can check to see if the coil still meets factory specs. This tells you
if rewinding is necessary. No specialized electronic training is needed for
this.

> I rewound a coil using the same size diameter wire, I got from radio shack
> same number of feet. Nothing happened. I wasted my time and money.
> I sent the coil to an "S"gauge person to rewind. The coil smoked as soon
> as I tried it. I bought another coil from a supplier and it worked.

I'm going to mention something here even though I know that it is so basic
it borders on being insulting, like telling someone to plug the non-working
appliance into a wall socket, but it so often is all that is wrong. So take
it in the spirit it is intended.

Coil winding wire is coated with an insulating compound to keep the coils
from shorting on each other. Regular plain copper wire is not coated and
cannot be used to wind a coil. It will simply short the power source and
smoke out. Again, you may know this cold, but sometimes it is worth
mentioning the most basic of precepts for those just tuning in.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19080 From: joe messinger Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: "Reverser Armature"
Rhett wrote: "That thingy is called a reverser armature." "Getting it to
fall reliably is the secret."


Armature,humm. . . I guess that might work. By definition, an armature is,
"The moving part of an electromagnetic device wound with coils that carry a
current." At least the first part applies!

Getting it to fall reliably is, exactly, the reason I added the extra
weight. Doing that to my troublesome reverse units improved their
performance so much, I added weight to all the units I have.

Joe








_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Group: S-Trains Message: 19081 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/12/2002
Subject: Re: AC and DC ---& rewinding
J.L Cowens Book is for Post war Lionel By Robert A. Hannon
The A.C. Gilbert's Post War American Flyer is also by R.A. Hannon

Check with Doug Peck I think He carries it. If Not Look at the back page of
April 2002 TTOS Order Board.

If you cannot get through Doug Contact Me off list & I can give you Cowens
web site address. Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19082 From: David Dewey Date: 4/13/2002
Subject: Re: "Reverser Armature"
While Joe's alteration to the reverse units by adding some weight to the
"armature" (for lack of a better word) does make it drop more reliably, it
also increases the amount of attraction needed to lift it. This can cause
locomotives to run for a short distance, then suddenly stop as the reverse
unit finally "kicks in." The design is a fairly finely balanced unit that
will function reliably if properly cleaned and adjusted.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19083 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 4/13/2002
Subject: TCA Location
Hi Folks,
We again will be in the Purple Hall - Row F. Have some new buildings available. Stop by and look them over.
Tom D.

Tom Doherty
Pennsylvania Heritage Models, Ltd.
http://www.paheritagemodels.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19084 From: Chuck Smith Date: 4/13/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel Rock Island
Lionel is pretty frugal about making tooling changes so the odds are the
Loco is a repaint of a previous one. Their can motor diesels actually
run pretty well. For Flyer compatible I prefer and recommend American
Models or S Helper Service because the prices are OK and the stuff runs
superbly. There are also PA Heritage locos.

bm957 wrote:
>
> Does anyone forsee this offering in the Lionel 2002 catalog has being
> a poor runner? Any idea what kind of motor they will have in it? I
> guess I cannot expect slow speed performance to be all that
> good...but I am thinking of getting this loco. I am fairly new to S
> scale...as you can probably tell...but I am excited about getting a
> layout up and running...
> thanks!
> Bill
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 19085 From: Lance McCold Date: 4/13/2002
Subject: Re: Anybody else know about this (Bob Hannon's) book?
I have a copy of the book. If you want to do repairs or restorations of
Flyer electrical motors and solenoids, there is nothing to compare to it.
There was an amazing amount of work that went into making the measurements
and photographs in the book. For a person who is interested in repair of
Flyer electrical components it is worth the money. He also has some advice
about problems I had not even thought of --shorts between windings and the
armature. He has information on his web site-- http://www.trainrefs.com

You can order direct from him. At $25. post paid, you cannot go wrong.
Hannon also gives you unlimited updates via his web site.

On the other hand, my S-gauge buddy said the book had more detail than he
had any interest in seeing. Will I ever do enough Flyer electrical repairs
to be worth the cost of the book? Probably not from a strictly economic
point of view, but any repair informed by the excellent reference material
he has assembled in the book will be enough to make it worth its cost to me.

Lance McCold
Knoxville, Tennessee




> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:30:08 +0000
> From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...>
>Subject: Re: AC and DC ---& rewinding
>
>
>Anybody else know about this book?
>
>
>HOwingsiii@... wrote:
>
>
> > There is a book out by Robert Hannon of Clarksville, MD on AF fields and
> > armatures and rewindings. This could be very helpful to you.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19086 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/13/2002
Subject: Bridge Girders
I hope someone can help me. I am looking for several packages of bridge girders
made by Central Valley in Oceano, CA.
I am working on a major project that needs these parts.
Does anyone have the girders available? Or, is Central Valley still in business?
I am still working on making a model of the Frankenstien. Trestle I ran out of
girders.

Thanks

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 19087 From: gino restivo Date: 4/13/2002
Subject: re , new parts notice
Hi all , its YORK time again

new parts that many have asked for will be available
from me at the RELIANCE FIRE HALL next to the
fairgrounds ...mon-thurs some are limited in quantity

Cannon ... original stlye ,non-working .. Limited
766 figure's ....Limited
Material for cows , figures... Limited
759 / 760 finial ( post top )
761 ....... finial " "
ROOF for 788 / 789 etc. with chimney ... VERY LIMITED
chimney for above roof ... limited
K-5 tndr frt step
Hudson tndr frt step
assmbled trlng trks for hudson / K-5..... Limited
rectifier Tube guard ...... Very Limited

Handcar body not completed .......

any other request for parts , E-Mail me off list
please

good luck finding the prize piece ,
Gino


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19088 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/13/2002
Subject: Re: re , new parts notice
Did anyone make a replacement body for the yellow maintenance car?
The number on the side of mine is 23743. The plastic rail on the end of mine
is broken.

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 19089 From: bassflyer Date: 4/13/2002
Subject: Re: Bridge Girders
**(((I hope someone can help me. I am looking for several packages
of bridge girders made by Central Valley in Oceano, CA.))**

Roger,..
Call Mike Marple, from "Mike's Trains & Hobbies" in Lompoc, CA.
He might be able to help you. His number is (805)736-6747. As far as
I know,...he isn't online yet! I keep buggin' him about it!

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19090 From: rodgers_carl Date: 4/13/2002
Subject: Re: re , new parts notice
Are the plasic parts, injection molded, like the originals or done
some other way?


--- In S-Trains@y..., "gino restivo" <lastman@n...> wrote:
> Hi all , its YORK time again
>
> new parts that many have asked for will be available
> from me at the RELIANCE FIRE HALL next to the
> fairgrounds ...mon-thurs some are limited in quantity
>
> Cannon ... original stlye ,non-working .. Limited
> 766 figure's ....Limited
> Material for cows , figures... Limited
> 759 / 760 finial ( post top )
> 761 ....... finial " "
> ROOF for 788 / 789 etc. with chimney ... VERY LIMITED
> chimney for above roof ... limited
> K-5 tndr frt step
> Hudson tndr frt step
> assmbled trlng trks for hudson / K-5..... Limited
> rectifier Tube guard ...... Very Limited
>
> Handcar body not completed .......
>
> any other request for parts , E-Mail me off list
> please
>
> good luck finding the prize piece ,
> Gino
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19091 From: gino restivo Date: 4/13/2002
Subject: Re: re , new parts notice
yes , to both questions

-----Original Message-----
From: rodgers_carl <rodgers_carl@...>
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, April 13, 2002 11:18 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: re , new parts notice


>Are the plasic parts, injection molded, like the originals or done
>some other way?
>
>
>--- In S-Trains@y..., "gino restivo" <lastman@n...> wrote:
>> Hi all , its YORK time again
>>
>> new parts that many have asked for will be available
>> from me at the RELIANCE FIRE HALL next to the
>> fairgrounds ...mon-thurs some are limited in quantity
>>
>> Cannon ... original stlye ,non-working .. Limited
>> 766 figure's ....Limited
>> Material for cows , figures... Limited
>> 759 / 760 finial ( post top )
>> 761 ....... finial " "
>> ROOF for 788 / 789 etc. with chimney ... VERY LIMITED
>> chimney for above roof ... limited
>> K-5 tndr frt step
>> Hudson tndr frt step
>> assmbled trlng trks for hudson / K-5..... Limited
>> rectifier Tube guard ...... Very Limited
>>
>> Handcar body not completed .......
>>
>> any other request for parts , E-Mail me off list
>> please
>>
>> good luck finding the prize piece ,
>> Gino
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19092 From: gino restivo Date: 4/13/2002
Subject: Re: re , new parts notice
i don't believe anyone has made that body
part , try some dealers or train shops for
a junker you may get lucky .....
hobby surplus would be you best shot , but
would they sell one if they have it
gino

-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...>
To: gino restivo <lastman@...>
Cc: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, April 13, 2002 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] re , new parts notice


>Did anyone make a replacement body for the yellow maintenance car?
>The number on the side of mine is 23743. The plastic rail on the end of
mine
>is broken.
>
>Roger Hinds
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19093 From: rodgers_carl Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Re: re , new parts notice
That really doesn't answer my question. Which plastic parts are
plastic injection molded (like the originals), and which parts are
made some other way?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19094 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Desert Island
Hi,

Since the discussion thread on my 'Desert Island' question is apparently concluded, you may view my findings on my web site at:

http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html

I hope this helps to simplify and demystify yet another aspect of American Flyer trains.

Regards,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19095 From: lou342ac Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Weight
The discussion on converting from AC to DC operation on 'ACG'
built 'Flyer' on this message board has occurred several times over
the past couple of years. Several have suggested leaving the old
reverse unit in for its weight. Does anyone know the exact weight of
the reverse unit? If so, it might be better to replace it with
something that would take up less space and give more room for the
rectifier installation. Curious
Lou
Group: S-Trains Message: 19096 From: michael prell Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Just Wondering
I,m just a little bit curiou-S about the following,
namely, has anyone ever done, or is anyone in the
process of doing a comparative study of rates
currently being charged by those in the repair service
profession? If so, what is the general hourly rate
for repair?

=====
Being angry is the same as holding a hot coal in the palm of your hand. You want to hold on to it in order to throw it at another, but only hurt yourself in doing so.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19097 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Re: Weight
Hi,

It's certainly your option on leaving the reverse unit in or taking it out altogether. I don't know the weight of the reverse unit, but a simple balance beam would tell you what material is it's equivalent. IMO, the strong point for leaving it in the tender is if you ever want to convert the unit back to AC and sell it. If you take the reverse unit out, it make get lost, broken or sold. For some information on converting AC to DC and other interesting topics:
Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: lou342ac
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 11:09 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Weight


The discussion on converting from AC to DC operation on 'ACG'
built 'Flyer' on this message board has occurred several times over
the past couple of years. Several have suggested leaving the old
reverse unit in for its weight. Does anyone know the exact weight of
the reverse unit? If so, it might be better to replace it with
something that would take up less space and give more room for the
rectifier installation. Curious
Lou


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19098 From: richgajnak Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Goodby...
I will be leaving the S-Scale, S-Trains and Showcase Yahoo groups
after posting this message, and closing down my Yahoo user ID. Some
of you may miss me, others may not.

I am not leaving because of the personalities on these groups, I have
enjoyed the discussions presented here and e-mails I have recieved
from time to time from the participants. I will miss participating.

(Warning: Sour Grapes Alert)
Rather, I am fed up with Yahoo. I have grown weary of having logging
in to Yahoo and wade through line delays and advertisments just to
participate in a discussion being the only route available to me.

As some of you may know, I have been unable to post to the above
mentioned groups from e-mail since January. Yahoo has been of no
assistance in this matter. All attempts to rectify this matter have
failed.

This morning (Sunday) was the last straw. I set up a second e-mail
account with my ISP, and attempted to join using the new e-mail
address. Yahoo requires address verification, but as of this
afternoon, I had not received the required e-mail with the code to
verify my new address. This is a process that should not take hours,
particularly on a Sunday morning. I checked my registration to make
sure that all provided information was correct. It was.

I don't know what Yahoo has against me, and frankly, I don't care
anymore. I can live without Yahoo.

Moderators, feel free to delete any files I have left behind, or if
you believe they are of some value to the group, leave them in.

I am not leaving S Scale. Should an S-related discussion group
appear on a more user-friendly board, I will be more than glad to
participate.

Farewell.
Rich G.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19099 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Re: Weight
Lou,

There are two good reasons for adding weight to tenders especially the
plastic ones. It improves the electrical pickup of the trucks and you can
haul longer drags of freight with out derailing the tender on the curves and
backing through turnouts. The more the better.

Carl

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.tuveson.com
Check out the New AF Loco Geared Drive Kit !
Buy it on line with PayPal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


-----Original Message-----
From: lou342ac [mailto:loubaldi@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 10:09 AM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Weight


The discussion on converting from AC to DC operation on 'ACG'
built 'Flyer' on this message board has occurred several times over
the past couple of years. Several have suggested leaving the old
reverse unit in for its weight. Does anyone know the exact weight of
the reverse unit? If so, it might be better to replace it with
something that would take up less space and give more room for the
rectifier installation. Curious
Lou


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19100 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Re: Weight
Lou,

I can understand you're wanting to have more room in the tender for the bridge rectifier. Using a 6-amp rectifier with the center hole for a bolt to secure it to the tender floor makes a beautiful-looking installation. However, a 6-amp rectifier shouldn't be necessary. I don't know of a steam loco Gilbert made that draws more than 3 amps. A 4-amp rectifier should be plenty. There is room for that and the reverse unit both. I used high-temp electrical tape to insulate the rectifier. I just wrap it around all the leads after the wires are soldered, keeping the leads splayed apart some. I've more than once put a rectifier in a tender with the reverse unit remaining. Do what you feel comfortable doing, of course. I just wanted to give you a second opinion.

Regards.
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Tuveson
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 2:03 PM
Subject: RE: [S-Trains] Weight


Lou,

There are two good reasons for adding weight to tenders especially the
plastic ones. It improves the electrical pickup of the trucks and you can
haul longer drags of freight with out derailing the tender on the curves and
backing through turnouts. The more the better.

Carl

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.tuveson.com
Check out the New AF Loco Geared Drive Kit !
Buy it on line with PayPal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


-----Original Message-----
From: lou342ac [mailto:loubaldi@...]
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 10:09 AM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Weight


The discussion on converting from AC to DC operation on 'ACG'
built 'Flyer' on this message board has occurred several times over
the past couple of years. Several have suggested leaving the old
reverse unit in for its weight. Does anyone know the exact weight of
the reverse unit? If so, it might be better to replace it with
something that would take up less space and give more room for the
rectifier installation. Curious
Lou


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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19101 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Re: Goodby...
Now that is strange to me.
I never log into yahoo and get advertisements, Delays or anything.
My "S" mail bounces through S-trains@yahoogroups by way of my
internet provider, which is where all my mail goes en-route to me. Other than
that I have nothing to do with yahoo. But I am getting all the "S" mail indirectly
through them.
Sounds like to me you need to communicate in the same way I do. Everything
is instantly sent back and forth with no spam. And I am using an old computer.

Roger Hinds

richgajnak wrote:

> (Warning: Sour Grapes Alert)
> Rather, I am fed up with Yahoo. I have grown weary of having logging
> in to Yahoo and wade through line delays and advertisments just to
> participate in a discussion being the only route available to me.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19102 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: AF Geep converted to TrainMaster Comand Control.
Here is my newest S gauge addition to my TrainMaster Command Control Roster.


I thought the AF/LTI geep would be the most challenging of the American
FLyer conversions but as it turned out the LCRU fits like a glove . The only
modification to the LCRU was the heat-sink.


Here is a link to my web page showing the installation.

http://www.tuveson.com/LCRU/AFGPlcru/AFGPTMCC.htm

Take a look,

Carl



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.tuveson.com
Check out the New AF Loco Geared Drive Kit !
Buy it on line with PayPal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Group: S-Trains Message: 19103 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, April 14, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19104 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1416
You might want to consider running the DC motor from pins 2 & 3 (inside
set) and the
AC to smoke and light from the outer pins (1 & 4). With this pin
configuration the plug
can be inserted upside down and still work.

On a related note:

The earlier Gilbert AC 4 wire plugs could be reversed. When they went to 5
wire, the
pins were shuffled and needed the red mark. The Greenberg diagram is
incorrect as
it shows merely an added 5th wire. Gilbert's service manual has an adapter
drawn.
______________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 19:57:37 -0500
> From: Carl Tuveson <carl@...>
>Subject: Cheap Electronic E-unit for DC Can Motor Conversions Follow up.
>
>Some of you wrote and wanted more details on using Lionel's electronic
>E-unit #600-0103-001 with DC Can motor conversions. If you are going to
>modernize the Loco with a DC Can Motor upgrade what's in the tender too.
>Get rid of that Clunky Temperamental Old Mechanical reverse unit and keep
>the compatiblity with your other AC engines and sound systems. It is a very
>economical upgrade.
>
>I have put a Picture, Information, and Wiring Diagram on my web site of an
>installation in an AF tender.
> http://www.tuveson.com/E-unit/eunit.htm
>
>Carl
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> http://www.tuveson.com
> Check out the New AF Loco Geared Drive Kit !
> Buy it on line with PayPal
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Group: S-Trains Message: 19105 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: S Gauge computer problem
This is directly related to S-Gauge:

I recently found that Doug Peck's part list was not working correctly with my
Windows XP. What I thought was an operating system quirk was actually
caused by accessing the site through a link rather than his URL address.

Webmaster Chris Peck brought this to my attention.

FYI The lock-ups of earlier Windows systems are almost non-existent with
the new version (XP). There are, of course, other new "features" to contend
with!

_____________________________________________________________________

>
>Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 08:06:15 -0700
> From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
>Subject: Re: Duck! --my computer problems and S gauge--sorry!
>
>Hi all,
> Apparently my question to the group about my computer problems has
>resulted in a drift away from train questions. My apologies. I asked the
>question here because there isn't a nearby pool of knowledgeable people--I
>already tried that! I also tried "on-line help" and got nowhere--and so I
>turned to my friends, whom I trust. After all, if they are smart enough to
>choose S gauge, they should know more than the average person on other
>important stuff. And they apparently do!!
>What did any of this have to do with S? Well, it was affecting my work on a
>Dispatch Article and my participation in S-Chat.
> So, many thanks to all who have posted me to offer very good
>suggestions. Right now I am thinking of upgrading this system and saving my
>money (goody, more train money!). Because of the generousity of my train
>friends, this will cost me very little, and if it doesn't fix it, then I can
>do the "big bucks" thing.
> IF any of my friends have further suggestions, please post them to me
>off-list for the groups' sake. This will be my last post to the groups about
>this, except for a very short post when I have finally solved the computer
>problem--just so anyone who is curious can have closure on it. (Gee, I just
>used one of those PC "buzz" words--scary!)
> Now we may return to our usual subjects--Many, many thanks to all.
>S'incerely,
>David Dewey
>
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19106 From: paintyliz Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Hi - Free Train Cards
Hi,

I am an artist, and I used to live in Virginia - a big train area. I
created pen & ink notecards for the area. Well, I moved to Texas, and
lugged a big box of them with me, WHY?? So, instead of throwing them
into the dumpster, I thought, hmmm who might be interested in these?
So I found your list of train enthusiasts and thought maybe some of
you might like them. I am GIVING THEM AWAY - just a small postage
charge. I have cards with the N&W #611 and some other historic trains
from the Roanoke area. I hope you find some you like, I just hated to
throw them away when I thought someone might enjoy them!!

http://APortraitForYou.com/freecards

I am so glad I found you guys! (and gals) (There are other cards
there as well, some Angels, etc)

Thanks!
Liz
Group: S-Trains Message: 19107 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: York
Fellow S Gaugers:

Will be at York this week. Hope to see some of you roaming the halls and the
bandit meets. Say "hello" and we can talk Flyer.

Bob Bubeck
Group: S-Trains Message: 19108 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1422
I use the digest and have few problems withaccess to messages and get NO
advertisements.

John Griffin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19109 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/14/2002
Subject: Re: Goodby...
>I will be leaving the S-Scale, S-Trains and Showcase Yahoo groups
>after posting this message, and closing down my Yahoo user ID. Some
>of you may miss me, others may not. I am fed up with Yahoo.


So, Rich, who gets hurt by this? Not Yahoo. They actually don't care if
you live or you die. They provide a service, for free. Advertising pays
for it. We use the service because it is convenient and provides what we
need.

Consider this:
1.) This is the only show in town.
2.) The rest of us are not experiencing the problems you are.
3.) We could probably help you with the computer anomaly you are
experiencing.
4.) Yahoo does not care that you are quitting. No one at Yahoo even knows
your name.
5.) This is a case of one person becoming frustrated by the indifference of
a large
organization which is structured to promote indifference.
6.) Goodbye has an "e" at the end. You know you are going to miss those
wonderful
grammatical and spelling corrections!
7.) We will miss you, for a while. Then eveything will go on as normal.

It's being a bit of a drama queen to stalk off like this with a big
announcement.

Consider that you will be isolating yourself from your friends. Then, if
after all this rational considering, you still want to quit, then go with a
blessing. You will indeed be free of your nemesis, Yahoo.

Good luck,
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19110 From: Ted Larson Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: YAHOO Moderator question
Is anybody else having problems? Perhaps we can get Yahoo's attention
if we give several examples. I'm wondering if Rick's use of Earthlink
is part of his problem. Does anybody else use Earthlink?

My biggest problem is SPAM. I see strong evidence that spammer's get
e-mail addresses from Yahoo Groups. Would you please contact me OFF
LINE and tell me whether you get lots of spam, how long you have been
on Yahoo groups, do you see any correlation between joining a group and
getting lots of spam???

Rich and anybody else having problems, you might try signing up for
Yahoo groups using a YAHOO e-mail account. Problem is you must be
on-line to look at your mail this way. If you have an always-on cable
or dsl connection, not a big deal.

Has anybody found a way to contact Yahoo by e-mail, postal address,
phone?

There was MUCH interest in the computer problem question recently. Is
there interest in haveing a SEPARATE e-list for computer questions?
Limit it to S scale modelers (members of Proto64, S-trains, S-scale,
etc.) Contact me OFF LIST on this question.

Ted Larson


From: "richgajnak" <rgajnak>
Subject: Goodby...

I will be leaving the S-Scale, S-Trains and Showcase Yahoo groups
after posting this message, and closing down my Yahoo user ID. Some
of you may miss me, others may not.

=====
Ted Larson

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19111 From: Rhett T. George Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: 759 Danger light and bell - a sticky situation
- Greeting`S' -

Steve Blancard described well a situation we know. The power is present
in the accessory, but something sticks. Examine the iron rod and the
bore of the brass cylinder the rod moves within. Both should be slick.
The only lube I like in these devices, and it is great that there are
no contacts or brushes around, is graphite. It is slick and dry.

Cheer`S'
Rhett
Group: S-Trains Message: 19112 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: Re: YAHOO Moderator question
I use Earthlink and have no problems getting or sending messages. My junk email
increased even more considerably in volume since we started using Yahoo than what I
started receiving after AOL bought Netscape a couple of years ago. I agree, you get
what you pay for in this business. Since we pay nothing, we get all the free ads as
well. It does get a bit tedious hitting the delete key so often, though.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


Ted Larson wrote:

> Is anybody else having problems? Perhaps we can get Yahoo's attention
> if we give several examples. I'm wondering if Rick's use of Earthlink
> is part of his problem. Does anybody else use Earthlink?
>
> My biggest problem is SPAM. I see strong evidence that spammer's get
> e-mail addresses from Yahoo Groups. Would you please contact me OFF
> LINE and tell me whether you get lots of spam, how long you have been
> on Yahoo groups, do you see any correlation between joining a group and
> getting lots of spam???
>
> Rich and anybody else having problems, you might try signing up for
> Yahoo groups using a YAHOO e-mail account. Problem is you must be
> on-line to look at your mail this way. If you have an always-on cable
> or dsl connection, not a big deal.
>
> Has anybody found a way to contact Yahoo by e-mail, postal address,
> phone?
>
> There was MUCH interest in the computer problem question recently. Is
> there interest in haveing a SEPARATE e-list for computer questions?
> Limit it to S scale modelers (members of Proto64, S-trains, S-scale,
> etc.) Contact me OFF LIST on this question.
>
> Ted Larson
>
> From: "richgajnak" <rgajnak>
> Subject: Goodby...
>
> I will be leaving the S-Scale, S-Trains and Showcase Yahoo groups
> after posting this message, and closing down my Yahoo user ID. Some
> of you may miss me, others may not.
>
> =====
> Ted Larson
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19113 From: Michael Christensen Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel Rock Island
At a friends home the other evening I saw a new bottom
of the line Lionel Alco switcher. Retail on this item
was well below $100.00! It had reasonable detail
illuminated cab and headlights, and an on board
electric horn. It ran pretty well on some @#$%#!! 0-27
gauge track (but it preferred to run long nose first)
and it ran very well on MTH 0-31 real track in both
directions.

Lionel is in the business to make money, and offer
good quality. I would not assume that they would
produce a "poor runner" in S scale. Why would they
make the effort? This item is yet to be released. It
is a premier item to the Alco 0 gauge unit I saw. Why
not assume it will be a great runner?


--- bm957 <bm957@...> wrote:
> Does anyone forsee this offering in the Lionel 2002
> catalog has being
> a poor runner? Any idea what kind of motor they
> will have in it? I
> guess I cannot expect slow speed performance to be
> all that
> good...but I am thinking of getting this loco. I am
> fairly new to S
> scale...as you can probably tell...but I am excited
> about getting a
> layout up and running...
> thanks!
> Bill
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19114 From: Roger Hinds Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: YAHOO Moderator question
I use Earthlink with a minimum amount of spam getting to me.

Earthlink has a program called spaminator. This weeds out a lot of spam.
The user has to feeds a number of key words into the program for it to work.
A person has to go to the Earthlink home page, Then support.
If anyone uses e-mail directly at yahoo site then they might get a lot of spam.

Also your browser should have a location to filter out spam.

Roger Hinds

Ted Larson wrote:

> Is anybody else having problems? Perhaps we can get Yahoo's attention
> if we give several examples. I'm wondering if Rick's use of Earthlink
> is part of his problem. Does anybody else use Earthlink?
>
> My biggest problem is SPAM. I see strong evidence that spammer's get
> e-mail addresses from Yahoo Groups. Would you please contact me OFF
> LINE and tell me whether you get lots of spam, how long you have been
> on Yahoo groups, do you see any correlation between joining a group and
> getting lots of spam???
>
> Rich and anybody else having problems, you might try signing up for
> Yahoo groups using a YAHOO e-mail account. Problem is you must be
> on-line to look at your mail this way. If you have an always-on cable
> or dsl connection, not a big deal.
>
> Has anybody found a way to contact Yahoo by e-mail, postal address,
> phone?
>
> There was MUCH interest in the computer problem question recently. Is
> there interest in haveing a SEPARATE e-list for computer questions?
> Limit it to S scale modelers (members of Proto64, S-trains, S-scale,
> etc.) Contact me OFF LIST on this question.
>
> Ted Larson
>
> From: "richgajnak" <rgajnak>
> Subject: Goodby...
>
> I will be leaving the S-Scale, S-Trains and Showcase Yahoo groups
> after posting this message, and closing down my Yahoo user ID. Some
> of you may miss me, others may not.
>
> =====
> Ted Larson
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19115 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: Boise Depot Show
Any of you in the Southern Idaho-Eastern Oregon area this weekend are invited to the 77th Anniversary Celebration of the Boise Depot in Boise, Idaho. The Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers are the featured attraction, displaying Lookout Junction with its new fourth independent track loop on the upper level, new 8-stall roundhouse and turntable, and the three new Flyonel accessories joining all the AC Gilbert stuff. It will also mark the Treasure Valley debut of S-Helper's UP F-3s.

In addition, there will be an HO traction layout, elevator rides to the top of the bell tower to overlook the valley, operating speeders out on the tracks, a new switching locomotive from MotivePower, lots of vintage automobiles, a fully restored 1927 American LaFrance pumper fire engine, the beautiful Platt Gardens, OSL and general railroad memorabilia, and an opportunity to view the $4.5 million restoration of the grand old facility. The event is free to the public!

Info, photos:
http://www.cityofboise.org/mayor/depot/open_house_2002.shtml

Join us if you can!

John Eichmann, Coordinator
Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers
Group: S-Trains Message: 19116 From: The Reis's Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: Re: YAHOO Moderator question
Ted:

I am using Earthlink and am having no problems having changed over to it a
month or so ago. I have not had any problems from either the changeovers to
egroups then to yahoo groups or my changeovers from GTE.net to Verizon.net
to now to Earthlink.net. (high speed DSL service).

I am running a 700 meg K7 machine on Win 98.

I have Norton anti virus (email protection enabled) and internet security
running.

I have no problems with ads, my emails to the lists (4 of them) all post
quickly, and I can get into the files area easily.

The only thing I have not tried is the Sunday chat as I never seem to be
around at 5PM Sunday.


I do recommend Earthlink, so far, as they had DSL up and working within 2
weeks on a phone line Verizon said would not work for DSL. Their live on
line help is outstanding.


Back to trains

Eric Reis
Kenmore, Washington.



-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Larson [mailto:mhrreast@...]
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 8:46 AM
To: Scale S; Trains S
Subject: [S-Trains] YAHOO Moderator question


I'm wondering if Rick's use of Earthlink
is part of his problem. Does anybody else use Earthlink?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19117 From: gunrjoe@aol.com Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: YAHOO
I too was became disgusted with YAHOO early on. I converted from e-groups but
misplaced my password. Every procedure for recovering a lost password was
futile. Yahoo has no phone number and only offers online assistance for
registered users. How can you get online assistance when you can't log on????
I now have re-registered and keep my password handy.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19118 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: Re: re , new parts notice
See you there Gino.
Harwood


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19119 From: fahrwud Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: PBS Flyer/Radio Shack rectifier
Hello all,
The newbie strikes again........
I caught a glimpse of 'Tracks Ahead', the PBS train show, completely
by accident on Saturday morning and was some impressed with the
Robinson layout. Would that gentleman be a member on this list? Great
Flyer shots! What a great layout.
Anyway, one scene showed the DC conversion using a Radio Shack
rectifier, and enabling the Flyer reverser to be left as is inside
the tenders.
Anyone familiar with the rectifier and/or its Radio Shack part #?

Also, I checked out Chuck Smith's helpful wiring info on Paul's
website.
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/repair/rectifier.htm

Any and all suggestions appreciated.

Dave W.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19120 From: gino restivo Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: show + parts
hi all , show was slow lots of mpc / etc newer
flyer ... some original boxed items and sets too
much for me ......

1 788-789 etc roof , 1 sample w/chimney left
14 21089 boiler frts ( painted)
3 766 fig's left

see you their ? gino


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19121 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: Re: PBS Flyer/Radio Shack rectifier
Dave,

I have a page that has a diagram and part info at:

http://www.tuveson.com/AC-DC/AD-DC.htm


Carl


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.tuveson.com
Check out the New AF Loco Geared Drive Kit !
Buy it on line with PayPal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-----Original Message-----
From: fahrwud [mailto:fahrwud@...]
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 7:20 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] PBS Flyer/Radio Shack rectifier


Hello all,
The newbie strikes again........
I caught a glimpse of 'Tracks Ahead', the PBS train show, completely
by accident on Saturday morning and was some impressed with the
Robinson layout. Would that gentleman be a member on this list? Great
Flyer shots! What a great layout.
Anyway, one scene showed the DC conversion using a Radio Shack
rectifier, and enabling the Flyer reverser to be left as is inside
the tenders.
Anyone familiar with the rectifier and/or its Radio Shack part #?

Also, I checked out Chuck Smith's helpful wiring info on Paul's
website.
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/repair/rectifier.htm

Any and all suggestions appreciated.

Dave W.


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19122 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: Re: PBS Flyer/Radio Shack rectifier
Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: fahrwud
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 8:20 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] PBS Flyer/Radio Shack rectifier


Hello all,
The newbie strikes again........
I caught a glimpse of 'Tracks Ahead', the PBS train show, completely
by accident on Saturday morning and was some impressed with the
Robinson layout. Would that gentleman be a member on this list? Great
Flyer shots! What a great layout.
Anyway, one scene showed the DC conversion using a Radio Shack
rectifier, and enabling the Flyer reverser to be left as is inside
the tenders.
Anyone familiar with the rectifier and/or its Radio Shack part #?

Also, I checked out Chuck Smith's helpful wiring info on Paul's
website.
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/repair/rectifier.htm

Any and all suggestions appreciated.

Dave W.


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19123 From: david_s_garber Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: york
Well its off to York.I am taking my new Digitalcamera to try
out.never been out of the box.will get some good pic.or a lot of
frustration.Hope to have fun one way or the other.staying at the Red
Roof Inn next to Bob Evens across from the BILLEY BUD HOL INN.RT 30
dAVE gARBER
gILBERT GET TOGEATHER THURS NIGHT 9:00 SEASONS HOPE SOME SHOW UP DAVE
Group: S-Trains Message: 19124 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] PBS Flyer/Radio Shack rectifier
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19125 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 4/15/2002
Subject: Scenery
Hi all:
I have been thinking about scenery for a "desert" style ATSF layout with
some mountains at two corners, possibly a backdrop from backdrop
warehouse. I saw recently that Heimburger had a newish book out,
"Desert Railroading". Anyone seen it and is it worthwhile to get ideas
about deserts scenes?? Any other suggestions on color photos in books
or on the internet??

Additionally, are there any commercial sources where one can buy cacti,
sagebrush, typical desert plants, etc??? Any articles that anyone knows
about?
Thanks in advance for help.
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)
Group: S-Trains Message: 19126 From: David Dewey Date: 4/16/2002
Subject: Re: 759 Danger light and bell - a sticky situation
Steve,
The bottom of the bell danger coil has a small rubber plug that keeps
the plunger from "banging" when it drops down. I think most cleaners will at
least soften this plug, if not dissolve it.
The plunger and the hollow coil core must be clean and smooth.
Unfortunately, I think the only way you can clean these is to remove the
plunger--which will require un-riveting the bell. It is fairly easy to
re-rivet, and while you have it off, you can check it for cracks (the brass
tends to crack with age) I silver-solder the cracks. The heat from the
silver soldering also helps relieve the age stress that build up in the
brass, so the bell should last a long time afterwards. An un-cracked bell
has a very nice ring to it, BTW.
Hope this helps some
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19127 From: Liz Armon Date: 4/16/2002
Subject: Where to get envelopes for the free cards
A couple people have asked me about finding envelopes for the free Train Notecards - sorry I forgot to mention that -

They fit a standard 5 1/2 Bar envelope - 4 3/8" x 5 1/2" (like wedding invitations come in) You can get them at any office supply place.

Now back to your regularly scheduled Train Chat ;o)

(In case you haven't looked yet - the notecards are going fast!
http://aportraitforyou.com/freecards )

Liz


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.346 / Virus Database: 194 - Release Date: 4/11/2002


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19128 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/16/2002
Subject: 759 bell
What a sticky situation.

It all depends on how nuts it drives you. If it only sticks once in a
while, live w it. If the sticking is constant, you can take action.

What happens is that there is too much play at the top of the plunger's
travel, so it escapes its proper direction of travel and gets jammed
sideways up against the bell. The plunger or the tube may be worn, the tip
of the plunger may be worn, bent, or driven too far into the body of the
plunger. Who knows what else can happen, but the result is there's too
much room for the plunger to move around.

You can work with the plunger, or you can try to alter the path it takes.
One thing you can try is to exchange plungers with a unit that works. You
can remove the plunger by gently bending back the stem yhat holds the bell.
If the new plunger works, eyeball the two plungers -- maybe a defect will
be obvious in the old one.

The problem is that the plunger travels too far up, then tilts sideways
like an early American space shot in The Right Stuff. You need to shorten
its path slightly so that the plunger is held erect by the tube during its
entire travel. You can make a longer plunger from a bolt, or add material
to the plunger tip. Or you can shorten the stem the bell is mounted on by
bending a v shaped kink in it.

If the bell is cracked, you can replace it with a 3/4" copper end cap from
a plumbing supply store. You have to drill a hole in it of course. This
last comes from Bob Tufts, and it works!

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19129 From: fahrwud Date: 4/16/2002
Subject: Thanks much Carl & Tim!
I are now much rectifier smarter!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19130 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 4/16/2002
Subject: Clapper/Bell Danger Signal
Greetings to all. Tom you mention the shape of the top of the clapper
(plunger) as being important to the ringing of the bell ... what should that
shape be? I am guessing not flat but perhaps rounded or even pointed, to
maximize the sound? The "cap" as you suggested does work well as a bell
replacement. Am still looking for a way to increase the sound of the bell
as the steam "choo-choo" masks the sound of the bell. Is this normal?
Thanks for any additional thoughts you may have! Best wishes, Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 19131 From: royhoffman Date: 4/17/2002
Subject: Re: Scenery
Hi Rance,

I would think that any article about the Cat Mt. & Santa Fe layout of
David Barrow's would be a good source for desert scenery ideas.
There' been a lot of articles in MR and RMC over the years.

Roy

--- In S-Trains@y..., Rance and Bente Velapoldi <velapoldi@n...>
wrote:
> Hi all:
> I have been thinking about scenery for a "desert" style ATSF layout
with
> some mountains at two corners, possibly a backdrop from backdrop
> warehouse. I saw recently that Heimburger had a newish book out,
> "Desert Railroading". Anyone seen it and is it worthwhile to get
ideas
> about deserts scenes?? Any other suggestions on color photos in
books
> or on the internet??
>
> Additionally, are there any commercial sources where one can buy
cacti,
> sagebrush, typical desert plants, etc??? Any articles that anyone
knows
> about?
> Thanks in advance for help.
> Rance Velapoldi (Norway)
Group: S-Trains Message: 19132 From: notcoldenough Date: 4/17/2002
Subject: Re: 759 bell
=> If the bell is cracked, you can replace it with a 3/4" copper end
cap from a plumbing supply store.

This is a novel replacement idea for the bell. Does it have a good
ring quality?

John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 19133 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 4/17/2002
Subject: Russ Downs at York
Russ Downs will be at the TCA meet in York this week. He'll be in
the Purple Hall at his old location. Russ has indicated that this
will probably be his last York meet. His contribution to the S
community over the last 25 years is well known. I venture to say
that most people on this list own something that Russ has produced,
whether it be his American Flyer repaints, Downs tank cars, Ace
products, etc. Stop by and say hello. I know Russ would appreciate
it. Jim Duncan
Group: S-Trains Message: 19134 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 4/17/2002
Subject: Re: My e-mail address has changed
This message is really just a test to prove my updates to Yahoo worked.

My company has decided we need a new name. So I am now
<mailto:thorin.marty@...> thorin.marty@.... I have
had to re-subscribe to the groups S-Trains and S-Scale in Yahoo. I get
everything in digest form. I just hope I don't start getting two copies...

Thorin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19135 From: royhoffman Date: 4/17/2002
Subject: Re: Russ Downs at York
A class act if there ever was one!

--- In S-Trains@y..., "kenwoodies1" <kenwoodies@a...> wrote:
> Russ Downs will be at the TCA meet in York this week. He'll be in
> the Purple Hall at his old location. Russ has indicated that this
> will probably be his last York meet. His contribution to the S
> community over the last 25 years is well known. I venture to say
> that most people on this list own something that Russ has produced,
> whether it be his American Flyer repaints, Downs tank cars, Ace
> products, etc. Stop by and say hello. I know Russ would
appreciate
> it. Jim Duncan
Group: S-Trains Message: 19136 From: Robert Jackson Date: 4/17/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Scenery
Rance and Bente Velapoldi wrote:

> I have been thinking about scenery for a "desert" style ATSF layout with
> some mountains at two corners, possibly a backdrop from backdrop
> warehouse.
> Additionally, are there any commercial sources where one can buy cacti,
> sagebrush, typical desert plants, etc???

H'lo Rance,
Others have suggested how to find appropriate articles. I am very
familiar with the ATSF operations and would make a couple of observations.
Referring only to its mainline operations, the ATSF actually operated in
"true" or "real" desert approximately from the point it leaves the Grand
Canyon area in Arizona and begins its decent into California. While, by some
definitions, its route through New Mexico and Arizona is all desert, that
whole region should be more accurately regarded as geologically related to
the Rocky Mountains. At most you could regard it as high desert. There are
no cacti, of the sort usually associated with America's western deserts,
along its route until it gets quite close to the Colorado River which forms
the border between Arizona and California at that point. The desert that you
seem to be suggesting is mostly in California between Needles and Mojave.
West of Mojave, only a short distance, the ATSF begins its climb up the
mountain over the Tehachapi Pass and into Bakersfield and the Central
Valley. The sort of cacti that would be encountered between Needles and
Mojave include ocotillo, jumping cactus, barrel cactus, and a couple of
others, the names of which I am blocking as I type. I will see if I can find
some pictures for you. Often people think of the desert and envision the
giant Saguaro cactus. However, the ATSF mainline operations never came near
Saguaros which are limited to an area in southern Arizona and small parts of
the Mexican state just south of there. Recently, I searched for scale palm
trees and found several sites that make scale cacti, but at the moment I
don't seem to find their websites. When I do, I will send them. One
possibility is Architrees which has a "store" on E-bay. You might try to log
in with them and see what that yields.
Bob Jackson
Group: S-Trains Message: 19137 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 4/17/2002
Subject: Re: ultrasonic cleaning?
Dear Tom:
I'm a few days behind in my reading...

I wasn't able to get good cleaning results from my ultrasonic cleaner (a
very small one) but it is terrific for mixing paint and restoring old
bottles of paint.
I take old bottles of Floquil and add Floquil thinner, refilling the
bottle to where it should be before the old thinner evaporated. I put the
bottle with the dried up paint and thinner into the ultrasonic cleaner and
turn it on. Half an hour later I will have the smoothest paint you have
ever seen, well mixed without any bubbles!
Polly-S, Pactra, and Tomy paints also respond well.
Last, this is great way to mix paint, including new bottles where
the paint has separated.

Thorin

Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 01:07:24 -0400
From: Tom Pennington <tjpennington@...>
Subject: ultrasonic cleaning?

Anyone out there tried ultrasonic cleaning on locomotives or parts.
There is always some crevice full of crud you cannot get to and was
wondering if anyone had tried this, and what kind of fluid did you use.
Thanks, Tom


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19138 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/17/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Scenery
How about Joshua Trees? Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19139 From: Robert Jackson Date: 4/17/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Scenery
Anormal1@... wrote:

> How about Joshua Trees? Mike

Oh, absolutely! That was one that I kept blocking as I was typing. I
could only get as far as "the old men etc etc". That of course got in
the way of really remembering the name of the cactus. Thanks for the
prompt.
Bob




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19140 From: kathy/tom Gerbasi Date: 4/17/2002
Subject: 1920's Figures
Just a "Heads up".

I Just finished painting up a set of 1/72 Preiser 1925 Civilian Flight Crew & Passengers
(Walthers Part # 590-72510) . These are inexpensive 1920's era people in "near S" scale. The set consists of 3 identical sprues of figures and it works out to about $.33 per figure. The set also come with a sprue of extra heads, allowing you to behead some figures and add different heads so the figures don't look identical. If you are in need of steam era people for your layout, these are nice

Even if you don't model the 20's, the figures are usable. The women look almost 1940's era if you change to heads that don't have "cloche hats". The guys in suits and homburg hats look appropriate for any era up to the 60's. The rest of the set consists of workers in coveralls, flyers in coveralls, a guy in what looks like a police uniform, and one sailor: these look okay for 1920-1960 (although you may want to change some of the heads). With different heads (without flight caps), the flyers look like engineers or truck drivers

If you haven't used 1/72 figures with your layout, they look just about right next to "Johnny Lightning" diecast cars. (i.e. a 6 foot tall 1/72 person is 1" tall, or 5.33 feet in S scale)

Tom Gerbasi


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19141 From: downtowndeco Date: 4/17/2002
Subject: Long lost S Scale Fallberg Station kits found....
While doing a little spring cleaning today a found a few sets of the
basic castings (+ most of the parts that go with them) that make up
our long sold out S Scale Fallberg Station kits. To just get rid of
them I'm selling these off at $30.00 postpaid to anyone who wants
them. That's about half of the list price. You can see the HO version
at our website (www.downtowndeco.com). Contact me off list if you are
interested.
Thanks.

Randy Pepprock
Downtown Deco
downtowndeco@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 19143 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/18/2002
Subject: HO & GILBERT ???
Hi Anyone out there with interest in HO also that would like a pretty good
deal on older Athena & Varney kits & already assem. Kits pretty much LN in
the box HO cars & a few engines. Contact me off list for details. Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19145 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 4/19/2002
Subject: My e-mail address has changed
I have been given a new e-mail address where I work. (
thorin.marty@... <mailto:thorin.marty@...> )

This message is really just a test to prove my updates to Yahoo worked.

Thorin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19147 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 4/19/2002
Subject: Burma Shave
Train approaching
Whistle squealing
Pause!
Avoid that
Rundown feeling!
Burma-Shave

Jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19148 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 4/19/2002
Subject: Slower speed can motors
From S-'n-S Trains
Just a reminder to all of you that the introductory price on the slower scale

like speed can motor conversion kits ends on April 30. We will honor any
orders that have postmarks by that date. DC version is $23.95 and AC version
is $27.95 plus $4 postage.

The Diesel conversion motor project nears completion. We have a prototype and

just need to find the best price for machining the necessary parts. We are
going to be doing a lot of our own machining in the near future and will
offer services such as rebushing Diesels in addition to installing the
motors. In our opinion it would be futile to install a can motor in most
diesels since they invariably need axle bushings. When we do a conversion on
Diesels we will also offer electronic E-units in place of the drum reverse
units now in there. We have finally figured out how to do this project
without any alteration to the chassis of the Alcos or Geeps.

Don't forget our new trade 'em in project on Reverse units for $14.95 either.



Regards and thanks to all....Steve & Sam
Group: S-Trains Message: 19149 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/19/2002
Subject: Re: Burma Shave .... ANOTHER
TRAIN WRECKS FEW
REASON CLEAR
FIREMAN NEVER HUGS
THE ENGINEER
BURMA SHAVE

BOB CONNER
Group: S-Trains Message: 19150 From: John Foley Date: 4/19/2002
Subject: MM&T News
Hi Folks

MM&T the folks who purchased the Downs/Ace line from Russ Downs
Gave me some news to pass along They are Still Taking orders for the
Ace parts line and rolling stock. The new 2002 Richfood tank car is now
available and ready for shipping.

MM&T Model Railroad
311 South Broad Street
Lititz, Pa. 17543
Phone/Fax 717 627 3980
Email mmttrains@...

It may be a good idea to phone or email them to make sure they have what
you may want in stock.

John
Group: S-Trains Message: 19151 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/19/2002
Subject: YORK
Clear DayHey I really wanted to go this time...Used to go twice a yaer for many years.....

WHAT ARE YOU GUYS FINDING....FINDS...PRICES....ETC...

Bob
Conner




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19152 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/19/2002
Subject: BURMA SHAVE - SIGNS
Clear DayHERE IS ALL I COULD FIND...


Drive like
A railroad engineer
Take it easy
When the road's
Not clear
Burma-Shave



Guys whose eyes
Are in
Their backs
Get halos crossing
Railroad tracks
Burma-Shave



Remember this
If you'd
Be spared
Trains don't whistle
Because they're scared
Burma-Shave



Trains don't wander
All over the map
For no one
Sits on
The engineer's lap
Burma-Shave



He saw
The train
And tried to duck it
Kicked first the gas
And then the bucket
Burma-Shave



He tried
To cross
As fast train neared
Death didn't draft him
He volunteered
Burma-Shave



Train wrecks few
Reason clear
Fireman
Never hugs
Engineer
Burma-Shave



Train approaching
Whistle squealing
Pause!
Avoid that
Rundown feeling!
Burma-Shave



The hobo
Lets his
Whiskers sprout
It's trains--not girls
That he takes out
Burma-Shave

BOB CONNER




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19153 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/19/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, April 21, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19154 From: gino restivo Date: 4/19/2002
Subject: Raul Catta your e-mail returned , sent again
hi all , this msg is for Raul Catta
i sent an answer to you it has come back
i sent it again hope you receive it this time

did you get the parts list ?
please e-mail me back and let me know
if you got it , this will also verify your
e-mail address
i may have original 788 / 789 roof if that would
be a better choice ... i will know if a few days
thanks , Gsr


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19155 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/19/2002
Subject: Re: YORK
Hi Bob,

I spent the day in York today. It was big. About as big as maybe 7 or 8 big Greenberg shows. Lots of Lionel. A good sampling of Flyer. Lots of highrail new stuff. Bargains, IMO, were very scarce. I was looking for boxes of old hulk locos and motor parts to tinker with, and old tenders to partner with the locos. Hah! I've done better on that score at local train shows such as Gilbertsville, PA and Hamburg, PA. I spent less today than I usually spend at the smaller shows. If you're looking for stuff right out of a basement or attic clean-out, York is not the place. If you're looking to spend the day having fun strolling about and take in the magnitude of building after building full of trains, and maybe find something or two of interest, York IS the place.

This is just my opinion. I'd like to hear others.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT
To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 4:10 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] YORK


Clear DayHey I really wanted to go this time...Used to go twice a yaer for many years.....

WHAT ARE YOU GUYS FINDING....FINDS...PRICES....ETC...

Bob
Conner




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19156 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/19/2002
Subject: Re: YORK
I remember making lots of friends when I used to go..My last time was 91...Billy Bud out before daylight with a flashlight...Bargins were sometimes to be had...Remember one fellow in the Blue Hall...Had flyer sets...Only looked at 1 set and bought it...After that several of us just started grabbing sets....didn't even look at them at 200 to 400 each..Came back to Fla. with the back seat full...Another time...had 4000 cash in my pocket for trains....Didn't spend a dime...I used to always go to see A Mr. Redmond..always had old model airplane kits under his table.....Finally found the UP set I wanted there...Took It all back in 90...Bought A horse farm.....still wish I still had the trains...The bank cheated me out of the farm.....Finally finding some more stuff again...But you are right about York and TCA meets in General....I have always found that Local meets were the best to find trains at....Need to find A good TRAIN SHOW FIX........Bob Conner


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19157 From: rodgers_carl Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Quality vs. a fast buck
I'm not sure how anyone else feels about this, but several months ago
I asked a question about parts dealers and who actually made the
parts. My reason for asking was that over the years I've gotten some
really good parts and some really bad ones.

The problem is when you order parts by mail or even at a train show,
you don't know what you're going to get. You could get well
manufactured parts, or you could get parts that are brittle distorted
or made in somebody's bathtub.

There are several people out there who do a good job, make the parts
or have them made by professional means. And then there are those who
make cheap junk, just to make a buck. I shy away from anyone who
lists parts as "improved quality" or "limited".

The real problem is the effect on people who buy bad parts and think
that that's all that's available. I think it hurts the hobby.

I have recently been buying all my parts from just one source. I have
not been disappointed. Accept for occasional slow delivery, but it's
worth the wait. I guess good wine takes time!
Name on request.

Another problem I've found, is when a parts dealer lists hard to find
parts or every part ever made, but they never have any of them. I can
understand being out of stock on some parts, even for a long time,
but when nearly all but one or two are out of stock, I think they're
just trying to get you to order from them.

Last week a parts person posted a message about some parts he had
available. I inquired as to how the parts were made, he answered with
a non answer. So I asked again, this time I got a long tirade
about, "Why did I want to know". I guess I really got an answer.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19158 From: lou342ac Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: YORK
Wow what a day - I can't remember the last time the weather was quite
this warm for a spring meet. The purple hall was really cooking. I
bet Don & Robin were exhausted by the end of the day.

It was nice to see the new Flyer products on display (Lionel - white
hall).

In general, I thought the prices for used Flyer was too high. Didn't
seem to be as much Lionel Flyer around as in past meets.

This is the first meet I didn't bring home any Flyer ('ACG
or 'Lionel'). Not that I didn't want any, just trying to get as much
as I could with my train allowance. I did purchase some new American
Models & S Helper products.

In fact, this morning on my layout, is a new Norfolk & Southern SD60
pulling a consist of new S Helper & American Models freight rolling
stock. Funny how you go to these meets looking for something and come
home with something totally different. Hope all who attended had fun.
Lou


--- In S-Trains@y..., "ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT"
<rcon7@b...> wrote:
> Clear DayHey I really wanted to go this time...Used to go twice a
yaer for many years.....
>
> WHAT ARE YOU GUYS FINDING....FINDS...PRICES....ETC...
>
> Bob
> Conner
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19159 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: silly engine question
Good morning,

What engines did gilbert use with the 800 series of cars in the 1950's

Jeff
Group: S-Trains Message: 19160 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: silly engine question
Just to name a few...some had as few as one car in the mix.....

355 308 303 283 293 372 307 289 21085

Bob Conner
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Tangeman" <jt12313@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 10:33 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] silly engine question


> Good morning,
>
> What engines did gilbert use with the 800 series of cars in the 1950's
>
> Jeff
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19161 From: bassflyer Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: On30 Caboose pic....
I have posted a scanned pic of the Bachmann On30 caboose that I
converted with SHS trucks,...click on photos and look for the Rick
Evans folder.

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19162 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: Quality vs. a fast buck
Yes, it certainly would be helpful if parts dealers would list the
manufacturers of their repro parts.

However, I am even more concerned about the shortage of high quality
reproduction decals, stickers, and transfers.

The repro decals we have now are terrible. They are not even close to the
originals in size, shape, color, and lettering.

This is important because it is impossible to use a small piece of a repro
decal to patch a damaged original You have to choose either leaving the
battered original in place or replacing it with a repro. I just bought
some Northern Pacific nose decals on which the word "Pacific", aside from
being in the wrong font, was hardly even there.
'
Stickers, which should be the easiest to make, are awful. I sat around a
friend's house one night while he made Koppers tank car sticker on his
computer. It took about 15 minutes and came out better than any on the
market. But he has thousands of dollars worth of computer equipment that I
do not.

The guy who makes the dry transfers has just lost his permission from LTI.
And this is just when we need MORE, not less transfers. I would like to
get the lettering for a 977 caboose, 944 crane, and lots of other things
for which transfers are perfect

Someone has got to jump in and fill this need.

I don't want to have to buy a digital camera, an ALPS printer, software,
etc. I don't want to have to buy rubber stamps for every piece I reletter.
I just want high quality repro graphics that I can buy and apply.


Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19163 From: bassflyer Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Repro decals...
I have bought, in the past, repro decals for my Silver Bullet
coaches,...They look nice and are better than no decals at all,..
HOWEVER,..they are not like the oringinals!! How hard can it be to
make 'em look like they are supposed too??

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19164 From: rodgers_carl Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: Repro decals...
Who did you get them from?

--- In S-Trains@y..., "bassflyer" <comic@d...> wrote:
> I have bought, in the past, repro decals for my Silver Bullet
> coaches,...They look nice and are better than no decals at all,..
> HOWEVER,..they are not like the oringinals!! How hard can it be to
> make 'em look like they are supposed too??
>
> Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19165 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: YORK
Tim and Co,
Spent Wednesday at the Holidome and a short hop to Best Western. Billy
Budd just about history, as one guy put it, the manager walks the "Gestapo"
(TWO local cops, armed) thru to collect vendor fees, apparently each day.
Two local cops, imagine that, to collect vendor fees. They call that a
"painless" tax to their residents.
Thursday was the BIG semi-annual event at the National Toy Train Museum,
parked cars all day. Amazing how much space they consume if you do not watch
them. Got at least ten more cars in lot at a time because we had three
people this time. People were leaving as Lionel started their presentation,
that's a first, no jam.
Friday and Saturday at Fairgrounds, "Kimble's Roast Beef" was missing,
what a shame, great sandwich. Crab cake sandwiches were excellent. Food
vendors pay a steep price to be on the fairgrounds selling just what they are
allowed to sell.
Listened to one guy explain to a passerby why his friend would have been
better off auctioning a Lionel Navy Switcher than bringing it too York. He
claimed the friend would triple his money AFTER commission. Guess he should
have told the friend.
Got together with old York friends, maybe made some new ones. Hope so.
Bought some at the "bandits", bought some at the fairgrounds. Know for
sure I will do the same thing in the fall. "Listen to the Choo-Choo, Smell
the Smoke".
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19166 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: YORK
What about the FRENCH FRY STAND? They had the best I ever tasted....BB
Vendor fees...all we used to pay was 5.00 table rentals....Do the others
charge fees also now? Like I said...Its been since 91...Back in the last
CENTURY since I was there...Will try hard to make it this fall....If I can
find another room...Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 19167 From: joeawood@aol.com Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: York
Tim I did not make it to York this year but last year was my first trip. You
really have to talk and bargain with people there I looked at 8 different
322AC locos found the guy who really wanted to sell his and got him down from
$180 to $120 a few paint chips on the tender was the only mark on it, runs
great. It seems like the word I get is that the things that you are looking
for are sold early or are stashed under the table.the high end stuff is on
top and the bargains are stashed where you have to ask for them. Have you
heard about the show before the show the parking lots at the hotels the day
before and the fire hall next to the fairgrounds. One guy told me last year
he had twice as much out in his truck but didn't have table space for
everything said he sold as much at the hotel in the evening as he sold inside
during the day. one of my friends takes his motor home down on Tuesday and
doesn't come home till Sunday he always gets bargains sometime during the
week. I believe you have to spend the whole week there to really get real
bargains. "Have fun keep on runnin them trains" Joe


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19168 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: AF item wanted
Anyone out there have an AF TNT or exploding boxcar chassis they would
sell?

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO
Group: S-Trains Message: 19169 From: gino restivo Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: parts question answered , carl
sorry for this post everyone, but carl the way your
question was prinnted i answered it twice ...and the
answer is still yes , i made many parts and its hard
to say how it was done when you fill up a box full they
usally look the same , a few exceptions


if i run out of one material i can use another , sometimes
the other is faster or better sometimes the same

so what is my problem you say ????????

maybe if you explained to me instead of your post to the
group the unfortunate reason ( which is why i make all
these parts ) i would have told you if you are unsatisfied with
any items return them for refund and were done with it and
we wouldn't have to write or read this post ................

and yes , some parts have been returned ( 350 frt trks )
my blackening was crap ( sorry d.p.)

if anyone buys a part from me and doesn't like what they
got return it , i will add that to my next list

i have sold my parts to several dealers on this list
maybe you might ask them if they have what you
want and ask about the quality they got

respect to all , GSR


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19170 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: York
Hi Joe,

That's very interesting. I spent lots of time looking under the tables and talking to the dealers. For what I wanted, most of them said the same thing, "I have that at home, but didn't bring it". That illustrates my point. The York TCA show (and for that matter, Greenberg) is too big and costly for most vendors to bring their 'junk' to. At a recent Greenberg show, one vendor told me it cost him $300 just to set up a table. I wonder how much he had to sell to recoup that cost. No wonder all he brought with him were his best pieces.

I did find one 'bargain', tho'. I bought a #300 Atlantic for $40. When I got home, I drilled down through the plugged smokestack, put that shell on a smoker chassis and now have a kickin', smokin', chuggin' Atlantic w/cast shell.

You may be right about scouring the parking lots and motels before the show. To some, that may be fun. To me, it's the same kind of hassle as running an ad in the local paper. I prefer the smaller, local train shows for the serendipity factor I'm looking for. It's my kind of fun. 'Sides, I don't really need any more Flyer, I just want to have my kind of fun. Don't let me spoil it for you.

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: joeawood@...
To: S-Trains@...
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 8:51 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] York


Tim I did not make it to York this year but last year was my first trip. You
really have to talk and bargain with people there I looked at 8 different
322AC locos found the guy who really wanted to sell his and got him down from
$180 to $120 a few paint chips on the tender was the only mark on it, runs
great. It seems like the word I get is that the things that you are looking
for are sold early or are stashed under the table.the high end stuff is on
top and the bargains are stashed where you have to ask for them. Have you
heard about the show before the show the parking lots at the hotels the day
before and the fire hall next to the fairgrounds. One guy told me last year
he had twice as much out in his truck but didn't have table space for
everything said he sold as much at the hotel in the evening as he sold inside
during the day. one of my friends takes his motor home down on Tuesday and
doesn't come home till Sunday he always gets bargains sometime during the
week. I believe you have to spend the whole week there to really get real
bargains. "Have fun keep on runnin them trains" Joe


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19171 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: YORK
Hi,

I think you've hit a bulls-eye. The TCA York show should be embraced as a big circus. Find the fun. Meet new people. Eat. Immerse. I went with the wrong attitude. I wanted to buy some things at terrific bargains. I'll have a better time this fall.

Thanks,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: WJJIM@...
To: Timboy@... ; S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] YORK


Tim and Co,
Spent Wednesday at the Holidome and a short hop to Best Western. Billy
Budd just about history, as one guy put it, the manager walks the "Gestapo"
(TWO local cops, armed) thru to collect vendor fees, apparently each day.
Two local cops, imagine that, to collect vendor fees. They call that a
"painless" tax to their residents.
Thursday was the BIG semi-annual event at the National Toy Train Museum,
parked cars all day. Amazing how much space they consume if you do not watch
them. Got at least ten more cars in lot at a time because we had three
people this time. People were leaving as Lionel started their presentation,
that's a first, no jam.
Friday and Saturday at Fairgrounds, "Kimble's Roast Beef" was missing,
what a shame, great sandwich. Crab cake sandwiches were excellent. Food
vendors pay a steep price to be on the fairgrounds selling just what they are
allowed to sell.
Listened to one guy explain to a passerby why his friend would have been
better off auctioning a Lionel Navy Switcher than bringing it too York. He
claimed the friend would triple his money AFTER commission. Guess he should
have told the friend.
Got together with old York friends, maybe made some new ones. Hope so.
Bought some at the "bandits", bought some at the fairgrounds. Know for
sure I will do the same thing in the fall. "Listen to the Choo-Choo, Smell
the Smoke".
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19172 From: Scott Holm Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: Quality vs. a fast buck
--- jarcho@... wrote:
> The guy who makes the dry transfers has just lost his permission from
> LTI. Someone has got to jump in and fill this need.
> > I don't want to have to buy a digital camera, an ALPS printer,

Even with all this I don't think you can make dry transfers. I have
searched far and wide for information on how to make dry transfers and
have found nothing. Does anybody know what is needed to make dry
transfers?

As far as quality, You're right Tom. I repainted a 0-8-0 and tried to
apply the Nickle Plate Road herald on the tender and the outline is too
large to fit so it was on top of the rivets and only partially applied.
Now I have to touch it up with paint or something.









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Group: S-Trains Message: 19173 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Passenger car project
Hi Guys,
Quick question for the night. I'm working on a project and taling apart 2
passenger cars that have lost 50% of the chrome plating. Impossible to save
the plastic in the windows. Some was cracked anyway, so I'll replace those
with repros I hope. I would like to take the vista dome off without breaking
it. Can I do this by heating up the 4 nubbs and popping it off while they are
soft? Is there a better way like filing off the nubbs? Would appreciate
ideas. What is the best thing to use for light diffusion? Thanks for the
help.
CHRIS THE TRAINNUT


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19174 From: Scott Holm Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: American Models SD-60
I just picked up an American Models EMD SD-60 and I Haven't been that
thrilled with American Models stuff in the past, but this engine is a
real beauty. It pulls a load of 26 SHS cars around at scale speeds of
about 100 MPH and can also be throttled down to the slowest of crawls.
And it looks terrific; it's the best looking engine I've ever seen.
Even my wife likes it!



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Group: S-Trains Message: 19175 From: Scott Holm Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Heavyweight repair
I've got all these heavyweight cars that have chips or ends missing and
I was thinking of possible repair options. What if I took a good one
and dipped it in a dish of silicone sealant to make a mold of the end
and then support the car with the chip in that mold and then filled in
the chip with something like JB weld or epoxy glue? Maybe even use
epoxy that you can add the right color to.

Anybody done this? Anybody got any suggestions or better ideas?

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Group: S-Trains Message: 19176 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: Heavyweight repair
Scott...You need to go to the opposite corner to make a mold...use the paint
on type and make several layers...put over the hole and fill with
epoxy...done right the rivits, details, etc. will come out fine...paint to
match...hard to mix in paint with the epoxy but i am still trying it...have
a ln peabody hopper missing one step...just made a mold and ready for epoxy
and paint to match..its easy too do....Bob Conner
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...>
To: "s-trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 10:15 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Heavyweight repair


> I've got all these heavyweight cars that have chips or ends missing and
> I was thinking of possible repair options. What if I took a good one
> and dipped it in a dish of silicone sealant to make a mold of the end
> and then support the car with the chip in that mold and then filled in
> the chip with something like JB weld or epoxy glue? Maybe even use
> epoxy that you can add the right color to.
>
> Anybody done this? Anybody got any suggestions or better ideas?
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
> http://games.yahoo.com/
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19177 From: rodgers_carl Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: parts question answered , carl
I only asked if your plastic parts were injection molded like the
originals. I don't see what all of your other explainations are.

I also don't think you could forget if you have a plastic injection
molding machine.

I have nothing to explain, I just asked a simple question.

--- In S-Trains@y..., "gino restivo" <lastman@n...> wrote:
> sorry for this post everyone, but carl the way your
> question was prinnted i answered it twice ...and the
> answer is still yes , i made many parts and its hard
> to say how it was done when you fill up a box full they
> usally look the same , a few exceptions
>
>
> if i run out of one material i can use another , sometimes
> the other is faster or better sometimes the same
>
> so what is my problem you say ????????
>
> maybe if you explained to me instead of your post to the
> group the unfortunate reason ( which is why i make all
> these parts ) i would have told you if you are unsatisfied with
> any items return them for refund and were done with it and
> we wouldn't have to write or read this post ................
>
> and yes , some parts have been returned ( 350 frt trks )
> my blackening was crap ( sorry d.p.)
>
> if anyone buys a part from me and doesn't like what they
> got return it , i will add that to my next list
>
> i have sold my parts to several dealers on this list
> maybe you might ask them if they have what you
> want and ask about the quality they got
>
> respect to all , GSR
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19178 From: jahoozdumm Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: Quality vs. a fast buck
Tom Jarcho wrote:

> The guy who makes the dry transfers has just lost his permission
from
> LTI. Someone has got to jump in and fill this need.


Wasn't that CDS Dry Transfers? I've used their stuff in restoring
plastic and sheet metal Flyer. They always worked well. Lost their
permission from LTI? What's the story behind THAT?

Please don't tell me Lionel has made another one of their "sensible"
and "entirely justified" moves to eliminate yet another source of
restoration materials... >:^[


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19179 From: jahoozdumm Date: 4/20/2002
Subject: Re: American Models SD-60
Scott Holm wrote:

>I just picked up an American Models EMD SD-60 and I Haven't been that
>thrilled with American Models stuff in the past, but this engine is a
>real beauty. ...it's the best looking engine I've ever seen.

What road name does it carry, Scott?


>Even my wife likes it!

Heh-heh. Y'know, when I think of all the locomotives my wife talked
me into buying... must be at least half of our fleet.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19180 From: af21115 Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: Re: YORK
Typical York actually. Garbage priced at TM like new prices. When
will they ever learn how to grade, and price accordingly? TCA people
are supposed to be the professionals, the ones who wrote the rules
and guidelines! Many times I wanted to just come out and ask where
they get their prices. Examples: 21165 cheapy Casey Jones set, common
version with Erie on tender with 3 common PM cars, a $75 set TOPS,
priced at $179.95.. DUH! Another, basic 302 atlantic with the 3 non-
descript AF non-painted freight cars $375.00, yeah right. I was
really tempted to have a button made up to wear that said: "I don't
care how much it went for on E-bay." Speaking of E-aby... One thing
that really pushed my buttons was to see a very scarce caboose I
wanted and needed badly to complete my caboose collection, sitting on
a table for $450. The point is that I got sniped on it on e-bay and
it still sold for a "FAIR" and "REASONABLE" price there, and now here
it is on a big wheeler dealers table marked up thru the roof. Its
those types of people that ruin this hobby by doing that crap to make
a quick buck at the expense of the true collector. By the way, all of
his stuff was rediculously priced, and not much was selling even the
tough numbers.

If you go to York looking for a lot of steals, your in for a let
down. You need to go there hoping to pay a fair listed price for an
item you've not been able to find elsewhere. Then on the rare
occasion when you do get a steal, it feels that much better. True,
most real deals dissapear in the first 30 minutes, but persistance
pays off. Don't let them tell you Friday is the only day to go for
deals either. This year I was only able to go on Saturday. Many
trains that were left were either grossly misgraded and over priced,
or just plain idiotically priced. But I was able to still find a few
of the more common straglers I need to fill in empty spots that I've
not been able to spot at local shows, and I got them at great prices.
My collecting partner picked up a lot of nice Gilbert HO, some of it
mint in the boxes at very cheap prices. Together, we also do
Plasticville, and we scored tons of mint kits at give away prices,
and even got a very rare and expensive kit for a song. So it is
possible, it depends on how you go about it, and what you are looking
for.

One nice thing about York is that many of the biggest collectors and
big players are there. This tends to bump up prices, and common sense
goes out the door there anyway. But... you get to meet the face
behind the name in that book or on that web page. This trip I was
able to meet Bill Nole a big Plasticville collector and author of a
new book on that subject. I was also able to meet Charles Sommers who
did the aging book on Gilbert HO years ago. In past years I've met
some of the big players involved with the Greenbergs' hard cover
books. So its a mixed bag of good, bad, and ugly.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19181 From: Don Thompson Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: Re: Quality vs. a fast buck
The original maker of dry transfer lettering for Lionel and AF was Al Bennet.
He worked for a a newspaper in Monmouth county, NJ. That gave him the contacts to
make the films needed to have dry transfers made. He was a friend and actually got
me started in train mfg. business many years ago. His daughter took over the
business after he passed and you would see her in the Yellow hall at York. I know
he did not have permission to use the Lionel or AF name, but in those days, most
companies did not protect their trademarks as much as today (remember the Chessie
incident a few decades back). I think the first the Lionel went after was Jerry
Williams with his 381E (I think that is the number) standard gauge engine made off
shore. He had to change the little brass plate that had the Lionel name. Of
course, someone later made just the Lionel brass plates so that you could switch
them back. I was at the show where a Lionel rep saw Tom's H's AF streamline
observations dome car with "American Flyer Lines" on the letterboard. He was told
to cease using the name.
I am not sure if Ms. Bennet ever had or got permission, but I am told she does
not have it now. She was in the TCA directory. The 2002 TCA directory was waiting
for me after York. Another company make decals and their ad (page 474) indicates
they have permission to use the "L" and "AF" words.
Don

jahoozdumm wrote:

> Tom Jarcho wrote:
>
> > The guy who makes the dry transfers has just lost his permission
> from
> > LTI. Someone has got to jump in and fill this need.
>
> Wasn't that CDS Dry Transfers? I've used their stuff in restoring
> plastic and sheet metal Flyer. They always worked well. Lost their
> permission from LTI? What's the story behind THAT?
>
> Please don't tell me Lionel has made another one of their "sensible"
> and "entirely justified" moves to eliminate yet another source of
> restoration materials... >:^[
>
> Chuck F.

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 19182 From: Michael Christensen Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: Re: Burma Shave .... ANOTHER
Yet another:

He tried to cross
as fast train neared
death didn't draft him
he volunteered
Burma Shave

--- ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT
<rcon7@...> wrote:
> TRAIN WRECKS FEW
> REASON CLEAR
> FIREMAN NEVER HUGS
> THE ENGINEER
> BURMA SHAVE
>
> BOB CONNER
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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Group: S-Trains Message: 19183 From: Steve Blancard Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: Re: parts question answered , carl
For what its worth, I recently bought a repro Hudson front pilot from Gino and it is
beautiful, identical to the original.

Steve Blancard

gino restivo wrote:

> sorry for this post everyone, but carl the way your
> question was prinnted i answered it twice ...and the
> answer is still yes , i made many parts and its hard
> to say how it was done when you fill up a box full they
> usally look the same , a few exceptions
>
>
> if i run out of one material i can use another , sometimes
> the other is faster or better sometimes the same
>
> so what is my problem you say ????????
>
> maybe if you explained to me instead of your post to the
> group the unfortunate reason ( which is why i make all
> these parts ) i would have told you if you are unsatisfied with
> any items return them for refund and were done with it and
> we wouldn't have to write or read this post ................
>
> and yes , some parts have been returned ( 350 frt trks )
> my blackening was crap ( sorry d.p.)
>
> if anyone buys a part from me and doesn't like what they
> got return it , i will add that to my next list
>
> i have sold my parts to several dealers on this list
> maybe you might ask them if they have what you
> want and ask about the quality they got
>
> respect to all , GSR
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19184 From: Rick Evans Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: To the chat group.....
Might be late to chat,...It's my Aunt's birthday, and we are all headin' down to the
local VFW to have an early dinner,....they are having a benefit chicken BBQ for someone...
soooo....I hope to sneak in late for chat, chicken grease and all!!!

Rick.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19185 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: 1. Significant TCA development 2. York
Those of you who have received your 2002 TCA directory will notice
that on page 52, for the first time in its history, the TCA has had a
drop in membership. This is significant because since 1955 the TCA
membership roll had always experienced a net increase in members.
Hopefully this is a one time aberration, but I believe that it may
not be the case. Although there are a sizeable number of new
applicants in the National Headquarters News, the membership
decreased by 321 people. There is no doubt that the TCA is top heavy
with members that are 45+ years old. Some TCA divisions are
cancelling meets and there is no longer a waiting list for tables at
York. Ebay may have had some effect on my last two statements as it
is a lot easier to sell your trains at home rather than truck them to
every meet. There is a positive development in this for new Flyer
collectors. This leads me to my York observations.
While walking around York I saw dealers who have the same trains for
sale they did 1 1/2 to 2 years ago. There were also dealers who had
more than one of some scarcer items for sale. One dealer had two 910
Gilbert chemical cars for sale, one for $285, the other $250, which
should put them in the Excellent category, but in my opinion they
both graded lower than that. If these cars belong to someone on the
list, I am not trying to disparage you. I realize that grading is
subjective and some dealers want room to move on price. It's just
that if I was a new or novice Flyer collector I would be wondering
how scarce the 910 really is, when one dealer has two on display and
there were at least 15 others for sale at York. Both of those cars
were still available at 4PM Friday. I talked to two other long time
collectors at York and both expressed the belief that they better get
out some of their doubles and triples and move them now. Consider
that 1958 American Flyer catalogs sell on Ebay for less than $50 yet
8-10 years ago they were going for $75-100 in the same condition at
York. Some items will always command a premium price (e.g. boxed
sets or two people on Ebay trying to outbid each other) but over the
next 5-10 years without a big increase in new people, the aging of
our group will cause prices to level out or even fall because of
lessening demand. (This is already seems to be happening. Comparing
the 1995 Greenberg guide to the 2001 edition I was surprised how many
items were the same or lower in price!) I also noticed that Don
Thompson seemed busy each time I was at his tables and that Bill Parr
had people all day at his booth. He had a lot of S Helper and
American Models on display. There are only so many train dollars to
go around and with many people like myself buying S Helper and AM,
watch for this to have an effect on Flyer demand. Jim Duncan
Group: S-Trains Message: 19186 From: knockbill Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: hewavy weight repair
I have also made molds to repair pilots, etc, right on the
original... just cover a good piece with silicon ( many thin layers
work best) & fit it over the part you want to cast,,,, I've used JB
weld & fibre glass (for Corvette repair),, both work well... If
possible, I try to re-inforce the piece by heating a small piece of
wire or a pin, & sticking it in the edge of the break before
casting....For metal castings, you would have to drill with a
jewelers bit,,,,,
Hope this works
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 19187 From: Mike Vana Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: Train Prices and TCA
Regarding Jim Duncan's message about TCA membership and York:

Let those prices fall! I like American Flyer because I like
the trains and accessories, not for the money they are worth.

S gauge AF will probably never become worthless, but there is
a lot of it that is way overpriced. (The first thing that comes
to mind are Franklin sets, which are quite common.) It makes me
mad when dealers jack the prices way up, probably because I know
some who are very arrogant as well as asking outrageous prices.
They deserve to go home without selling their trains. Obviously,
I won't buy something unless I think it is reasonably priced.
There are only a few people that I won't buy from, but a seller's
attitude has a lot to do with my buying trains from him (or her),
especially if it's priced on the high side.

The prices of AF S gauge in years to come may parallel what
has happened with pre-war trains. Most of the people who
grew up with them are dead or very old, but there is still a
market for them. I suppose some younger people have or will
take up collecting them.

As for TCA membership dropping, I have a couple opinions.
I'm not a TCA member, or NASG or NMRA either. There are a
lot of train groups that one can belong to. And one can only
belong to so many clubs before there is not enough time or
money to participate in and enjoy the membership. I belong
to UP, Milwaukee, and CNW Historical Societies, two railfan
clubs, and a local model train group. The latter was a group
I left in 1974 and rejoined last year. When I left there were
too many people interested in the money the trains were worth,
and most were Lionel people who despised us AF people. Now
there is no hostility from the three rail crowd, plus a lot
more MTH and K-Line trains running, with the old Lionel trains
mostly sitting in glass cases or on shelves. It's a kinder,
gentler group now, with more people who appreciate trains
and only a couple dealers. Maybe TCA represents people who
are/were dealers, and that's where the decline is. Perhaps
someone can tell us how membership in TTOS, NASG, and NMRA
are faring. You have to factor in that some people are not
attracted to clubs, while others are, plus if I understand
correctly, you have to have two sponsors for TCA, and none
of the other clubs require that.

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19188 From: max meise Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: Re: 1. Significant TCA development 2. York
How does on go about joining TCA?
-----Original Message-----
From: kenwoodies1 <kenwoodies@...>
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, April 21, 2002 12:43 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] 1. Significant TCA development 2. York


>Those of you who have received your 2002 TCA directory will notice
>that on page 52, for the first time in its history, the TCA has had a
>drop in membership. This is significant because since 1955 the TCA
>membership roll had always experienced a net increase in members.
>Hopefully this is a one time aberration, but I believe that it may
>not be the case. Although there are a sizeable number of new
>applicants in the National Headquarters News, the membership
>decreased by 321 people. There is no doubt that the TCA is top heavy
>with members that are 45+ years old. Some TCA divisions are
>cancelling meets and there is no longer a waiting list for tables at
>York. Ebay may have had some effect on my last two statements as it
>is a lot easier to sell your trains at home rather than truck them to
>every meet. There is a positive development in this for new Flyer
>collectors. This leads me to my York observations.
>While walking around York I saw dealers who have the same trains for
>sale they did 1 1/2 to 2 years ago. There were also dealers who had
>more than one of some scarcer items for sale. One dealer had two 910
>Gilbert chemical cars for sale, one for $285, the other $250, which
>should put them in the Excellent category, but in my opinion they
>both graded lower than that. If these cars belong to someone on the
>list, I am not trying to disparage you. I realize that grading is
>subjective and some dealers want room to move on price. It's just
>that if I was a new or novice Flyer collector I would be wondering
>how scarce the 910 really is, when one dealer has two on display and
>there were at least 15 others for sale at York. Both of those cars
>were still available at 4PM Friday. I talked to two other long time
>collectors at York and both expressed the belief that they better get
>out some of their doubles and triples and move them now. Consider
>that 1958 American Flyer catalogs sell on Ebay for less than $50 yet
>8-10 years ago they were going for $75-100 in the same condition at
>York. Some items will always command a premium price (e.g. boxed
>sets or two people on Ebay trying to outbid each other) but over the
>next 5-10 years without a big increase in new people, the aging of
>our group will cause prices to level out or even fall because of
>lessening demand. (This is already seems to be happening. Comparing
>the 1995 Greenberg guide to the 2001 edition I was surprised how many
>items were the same or lower in price!) I also noticed that Don
>Thompson seemed busy each time I was at his tables and that Bill Parr
>had people all day at his booth. He had a lot of S Helper and
>American Models on display. There are only so many train dollars to
>go around and with many people like myself buying S Helper and AM,
>watch for this to have an effect on Flyer demand. Jim Duncan
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19189 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, April 21, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19190 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: Re: Significant TCA development 2. York / TCA Membership Drop - NO
Hello all,

Just got back from York. In trying to catch up on my email, I noticed on
the ToyTrains mailing list of which I am also a member, notices that
there in fact IS NOT a membership drop in TCA, and the count in the
current directory is as much as 7000 short due to a computer software
error. The board has authorized a reprint of the directory to correct
the error. So all is well fellow toy train collectors, the sky is not
falling, and neither is TCA. :-)

--

eBay myflyertrains@... - TCA# 99-50024

Personal Web Site - http://myflyertrains.com
Kris Model Trains Home - http://krismodeltrains.org
The All Aboard Sets Club - http://allaboardsetsclub.org
Group: S-Trains Message: 19191 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: TCA membership drop
I believe what Chuck Harrington is referring to is the fact that
thousands of TCA members names and addresses were left out of the
2002 directory. I believe the net number of 31,822 members as of
June 2001 is still correct. Consider that the TCA was handing out
new membership numbers in the 50,000's in July of 1999. As of March
2002 the numbers being handed out are in the 54,000's and these
people will not be recognized as members until after June when the
membership is counted. The TCA could not have 7000 more members than
listed. I hope the net membership number is wrong but I don't think
so. Jim Duncan
Group: S-Trains Message: 19192 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: setting preferences
We all got an administrative email recently from Yahoo.

Now, I have found that every one of these that they send says one thing and
means another. They have to be decrypted. The email talked about various
wonderful things, but the important point, deeply buried, was that they
have reset everybody's privacy preferences. This means that unless you go
to the site below and reset your preferences, you will get a lot of junk
email ads. I went to the site last night, and all my preferences about
receiving advertizing had all been reset from "no" to "yes".

They say that this will not take effect for six months, but I don't
believe them. Yahoo is hurting for advertizing revenue, and ever since
they merged clubs and groups I have been getting stuff I never used to get.


The last 2 email ads I got were about selling junk out of my home and
enlarging my penis size. Well, I don't sell junk, I buy it and fix it up.
And I don't need any help with that other thing either.

The site is http://subscribe.yahoo.com/showaccount

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19193 From: Gary Chidester Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: balast or other smal rock needs
Okay, I admit that I am weird, but I just realized I have a good supply of
small rocks for a rock quarry on my layout. I was on the roof for some
repairs and as I was coming down I saw the gravel form my asphalt shingles
that had accumulated in my rain gutters! I took it out and have been using
it on the layout. nice color and perfect size.

gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 19194 From: jahoozdumm Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: Re: Train Prices and TCA
Mike Vana wrote;

>The prices of AF S gauge in years to come may parallel what
>has happened with pre-war trains. Most of the people who
>grew up with them are dead or very old, but there is still a
>market for them.

Yes, there is a market for them. Surprisingly, prewar Standard Gauge
is drawing in people from the "cool antiques" side of the culture.
Why, I know of one guy in his early forties who even dropped AF S
gauge to get into Standard. (Nope, I couldn't believe it either.)
I've also seen folks in their late 20s/early 30s skulking about for
Standard gauge at TTOS meets.


>There are a lot of train groups that one can belong to. And one can
>only belong to so many clubs before there is not enough time or
>money to participate in and enjoy the membership.

That's for stinkin' sure. And so many of the older, well-established
clubs keep raising their dues.


>Perhaps someone can tell us how membership in TTOS, NASG, and NMRA
>are faring.

My wife and I used to belong to TTOS, Southern Pacific Div. Not sure
of the overall member count now, but last year, after more than 15
years of membership, we didn't renew. It was due to a combination of
burn-out (we ran trains at almost every monthly meet since the
early '90s, and took our mod layout to the 2000 convention), a bad
business year (no $ to spend) and increasing dues. We decided to take
a "sabbatical" from the club, which hasn't ended yet. Another problem
was, we were finding less and less to even consider buying at the
meets. That actually began to happen years earlier, but our interest
in the club was sustained by a shift in our activities from
collecting to operating at the meets. Still the increasing prices and
decreasing selection of AF didn't help, nor did the increasing dues.
One of the problems is that one can't belong to a local division
without also belonging to National. So you get socked with two sets
of dues, and it keeps getting more and more expensive. The officers
would always say "It's necessary to increase dues to keep up
services, and look at the cool publications!" but personally,
belonging to National does nothing for us. As for the publications,
you can't waive those to get a membership discount. The Bulletin
interests me (I still contribute to it occasionally), but the Order
Board is useless to me. Why should I have to pay for paper I don't
want, especially since long ago I ran out of room to store it?

As for the "greed" factor, it didn't really do anything to drive US
away, but I know it has others. I sponsored a guy in the late '80s
who left after a year. His reason: "There are some good people here,
but there are too many who are just using the club to try to make
money." He was referring to things such as ignoring the closed box
rule, scalping, ridiculous prices, etc. "Why should I pay dues to
find prices I could get at a real store where I can browse for free?"
he asked. I sympathized, and tried to remind him of the reasons I
stayed in: operating, friends, layout advice and such, but it wasn't
enough. He just didn't like the idea that so many were using club
meets that he had to pay money to attend for their profit. He had no
quarrel with people who like to wheel and deal for the fun of it, or
who genuinely do un-earth stuff from obscure sources like garage
sales to bring and sell at meets for a return. It was people who, for
instance, pounce on the decent stuff AT THE MEET, then put it on
their own table at a higher price, just to squeeze $ from whoever
might want the item to use. Anyway, such things rankled my friend,
and he never went to another meet.

That kind of thing (scalping) may decrease as demand decreases, but
by then, it may be too late for the clubs. I still don't know if
we'll ever rejoin TTOS.


>if I understand correctly, you have to have two sponsors for TCA,
>and none of the other clubs require that.

TTOS requires at least one sponsor, as I recall.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19195 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: Re: Train Prices and TCA/ TTOS
Hi Chuck&All,
I too belong to the SO Pac. division. I have seen
people take stuff after getting a price from the seller & putting more into
their box that they got cheap as it was. When I asked the guy about it he
said "you have to steal to make a profit." The same meet I left my box's that
I bought from a seller (The same one) & a guy comes up to me & shows me an
item that he "BOUGHT" it was my stuff. I could not do anything at the time &
have never seen him again.
I like the meets but now only stay for 10 mins & NEVER leave my stuff alone.
The trust that was there is now gone. I think I'll let Keck know what is
going on. It was not in his Div. that this happened but it was his guys.
Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19196 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: Re: Train Prices and TCA/TTOS
Forgot I didn't need a sponsor to join. Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19197 From: David Dewey Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: TTOS--was Re: Train Prices and TCA
Well, I used to belong to the TTOS and local club, but their meetings are on
Saturdays, and I work most Saturdays, so never made ONE meeting! I too, find
nothing in the Order Board to purchase, and the Bulletin has so few AF
articles in it that I don't find it enough to keep my interest (I hate to
sound like a snob here, but many of the articles are poorly written and not
edited-and no, I'm not an English teacher nor expert; that's why I send my
columns to one for proof-reading before it is submitted). So I have let my
membership lapse. It doesn't seem right to belong just so I can go in the
shows an hour before the public (although that is tempting!). So now the
local club I belong to is an AF/S "only" club and we have a lot of fun
together, the national is NASG and (of course!) S-trains.
Isn't this a great bunch of guys/gals? We had a great time on Chat tonight,
even talked about trains--a little! I know I have made friends here I think
I'll have for a long time (if they can stand my shirts and puns).
Hmm, I am drifting, and time to catch some zzz's, Linda has to be up at
5 AM for work. Have a great week y'alls!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19198 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 4/21/2002
Subject: TCA Directory
The 2002 directory is "out to lunch". I and three of my friends were left
out. I'm thinking they may redo it.......Steve
Group: S-Trains Message: 19200 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: Re: TCA Directory
There was an announcement made at the York TCA show that the new directory was hosed and they are sending a new one out. Don't draw any conclusions from this bogus directory.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: boss31@...
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 2:53 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] TCA Directory


The 2002 directory is "out to lunch". I and three of my friends were left
out. I'm thinking they may redo it.......Steve

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19201 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: Cowboy fun stuff
http://www3.memlane.com/gromboug/
Jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19202 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: Signs for your buildings
http://www.tias.com/stores/tsusa
Jim Sleeth


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19203 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: American Flyer signs
http://pages.tias.com/107/InventoryPage/16321/1.html
Jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19204 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: Faster then a locomotive
http://www.fiftiesweb.com/superman.htm
jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19205 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: setting preferences
>We all got an administrative email recently from Yahoo.
>. . . the important point, deeply buried, was that they
>have reset everybody's privacy preferences. This means that unless you go
>to the site below and reset your preferences, you will get a lot of junk
>email ads. I went to the site last night, and all my preferences about
>receiving advertizing had all been reset from "no" to "yes".

Actually, Tom, the preferences were not reset. I just went there and
checked mine. There were several new categories added that they defaulted
as "Yes". I changed them to "No". My original setting (and yours, too) is
the top line, which said "Include Me." My "No" answer was still intact.

Thanks for the heads up and the link to straighten this out. I hate all
that spam as well.

You might reconsider that one offer you got though. You never know when it
might come in handy.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19206 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: Re: ballast or other smal rock needs
Gary Chidester said:
>Okay, I admit that I am weird, but I just realized I have a good supply of
>small rocks for a rock quarry on my layout. I was on the roof for some
>repairs and as I was coming down I saw the gravel form my asphalt shingles
>that had accumulated in my rain gutters! I took it out and have been using
>it on the layout. nice color and perfect size.

No weirder than I! I just finished putting a Cultured Stone facade on my
garage. I was about to throw out all the waste cuts when a bell went off.
What perfect rock ledges and boulders these molded rocks would make. They
are already shaped and colored. They are made of concrete and aggregate
(like concrete block) and are fairly lightweight.

To see what they look like, go to http://www.culturedstone.com/ .
I used the Country Ledgestone in "Honey" color. Follow the Products link on
the menu to see all the styles. These rocks can be cut, and glued up with
common tile mastic. On a layout they could be cemented to most surfaces.
At about $5-$6 a square foot they won't break you either. You can go to the
yard and select a couple stones of each style that interests you. They'll
probably give you broken pieces for free.

Have fun.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19207 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: California, here I come!
I will be in the Bay Area (Pleasanton) for training. I will available for
the evenings from May 20 - May 23.

Does anyone know of a hobby shop with S-Scale where I can purchase an
American Models SD60M in DC Highrail and BNSF paint in the Bay Area? I am
quite willing to pay list price if I can purchase it across the counter and
thus bolster this hobby shop's support of S. (This is enough lead time that
someone could order it and have it waiting for me.)
I will inspect the other offerings of the shop to prove my SD60M isn't
the only S Scale in the shop.

Also, anyone interested in an evening visit?

Please contact me off-list if you are interested.
Thorin Marty
Milwaukee, WI



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wisconsin Electric - Wisconsin Gas is now We Energies.
Please use our new email extension "we-energies.com"
when addressing email to this sender,
e.g., john.doe@....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19208 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: Re: California, here I come!
Thorin,
Try norcaltt@... He is in the bay area & handles a lot of
AM Stuff.E-mail him for address & direct. to his shop. Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19209 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: 2002 TCA Directory Reply
In a message dated 04/22/2002 12:30:50 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
train.collectors@... writes:

Here's the reply I got from TCA regarding the errors in the
directory.......Steve

> Due to a software problem, the 2002 Directory of Information contains
> several major errors. There are names missing and others are not in proper
> order.
>
>
> We are working with the software provider to resolve those issues, and the
> Directory will be reprinted.
>
> Updated information will appear on www.traincollectors.org and in The
> National Headquarters News.
>
> We apologize for this inconvenience.
>
>
> Nicole A. Berninger
> TCA Publications Editor/Secretary
> 717-687-8623
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19210 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: Re: Transformers including updated summary
To all:
David Horn has given me permission to continue this survey. I have
filled out the information for the 22035 and 22090 based on my recent
observations.

Thorin


Model# Rated v max volt w/(rated) Watts, scraper/roller, notes
1 1/2B 16v 16.3v 50W, scraper, 75w units?
4B 15v or 16v 17.2v (15v) 16.5v (16v) 100W, scraper.
8B 15v 16.8v 100W, scraper.
12B 15v 16.5v 250W, scrapers (2).
15B 15v or 16v 16.7v (15v) ___v (16v) 110W, roller.
16B 15v or 18v 16.9v (15v) 19v (18v) 175W or 190w, roller.
17B 15v 16.89v 190W, roller.
18B 15v or 18v 19v (15v) ___ (18v) 175W or 190w, roller.
19B 15v 16.6v 300W, roller.
30B 15v or 18v 19.3v (15v) 19.6v (18v) 300W, rollers (2).
22006 16v 16.5v 25W, scraper.
22035 17v 19.5v 175W, scraper.
22060 18v 19.91v 175W, _______.
22090 17v 18.7v (18V) 18.7 (18V) 350W, scrapers (2).

If anyone has any information on the missing slots, send it and I will fill
them in and repost.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wisconsin Electric - Wisconsin Gas is now We Energies.
Please use our new email extension "we-energies.com"
when addressing email to this sender,
e.g., john.doe@....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19211 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: Re: Transformers including updated summary
Dear Neil:

I apologize. I didn't even know there were any export models. (But
there must have been.)

I do not claim to be anything resembling an expert on this. I just
took David's chart and filled in three holes where I measured the data.

If you wish to provide additional lines for the chart, YES, I WILL ADD
THEM AND I WILL POST THEM!

Thorin

-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Trump [mailto:neil.trump@...]
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 3:42 PM
To: Marty.Thorin
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] RE: Transformers including updated summary


Hello,

Are you interested in export models?

Neil

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty.Thorin" <thorin.marty@...>
To: "'S-Trains (E-mail)" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 8:57 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] RE: Transformers including updated summary

> To all:
> David Horn has given me permission to continue this survey. I have
> filled out the information for the 22035 and 22090 based on my recent
> observations.
>
> Thorin
>
>
> Model# Rated v max volt w/(rated) Watts, scraper/roller, notes
> 1 1/2B 16v 16.3v 50W, scraper, 75w units?
> 4B 15v or 16v 17.2v (15v) 16.5v (16v) 100W, scraper.
> 8B 15v 16.8v 100W, scraper.
> 12B 15v 16.5v 250W, scrapers (2).
> 15B 15v or 16v 16.7v (15v) ___v (16v) 110W, roller.
> 16B 15v or 18v 16.9v (15v) 19v (18v) 175W or 190w, roller.
> 17B 15v 16.89v 190W, roller.
> 18B 15v or 18v 19v (15v) ___ (18v) 175W or 190w, roller.
> 19B 15v 16.6v 300W, roller.
> 30B 15v or 18v 19.3v (15v) 19.6v (18v) 300W, rollers (2).
> 22006 16v 16.5v 25W, scraper.
> 22035 17v 19.5v 175W, scraper.
> 22060 18v 19.91v 175W, _______.
> 22090 17v 18.7v (18V) 18.7 (18V) 350W, scrapers (2).
>
> If anyone has any information on the missing slots, send it and I will
> fill them in and repost.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wisconsin Electric - Wisconsin Gas is now We Energies.
Please use our new email extension "we-energies.com"
when addressing email to this sender,
e.g., john.doe@....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19212 From: Dan Brindell Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: Nice work if you can get it
The Showcase Line catalogs are pretty nice as catalogs go, but selling a
current one on eBay? Nice work if you can get it! Don, maybe you are
missing out on a business opportunity here!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1725075365
Group: S-Trains Message: 19213 From: Don Thompson Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: Re: Nice work if you can get it
Dear Dan,
Maybe we are not charging enough for shipping? We still have these in stock for
$3.00 ppd.
Don
PS I think it cost us about $1.74 to ship this with a newsletter.

Dan Brindell wrote:

> The Showcase Line catalogs are pretty nice as catalogs go, but selling a
> current one on eBay? Nice work if you can get it! Don, maybe you are
> missing out on a business opportunity here!
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1725075365
>

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19214 From: Ron Inscho Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: Re: Nice work if you can get it
The S helper catalog being offered on Ebay only confirms My suspicions the
this hobby is becomming a RACKET !!! if it already wasn't
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19215 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: TCA and TTOS
I too let my TTOS membership expire. I could not think of one valuable reason
to pay another year of dues.

My family arrived at the fairgrounds where my division of the TCA meets are
held the Saturday before the last meet. We usually camp over night for a
small fee since it takes 3 hours to get there in the first place ( 2 1/2 if
we don't take the VW bus). I noticed that the door was open and there were
people inside. We started in to use the bathroom after the long trip. I was
immediately met at the door and told, "You can't come in here," by one of the
senior members. What a greeting! This is the second time this has happened
to us this year. I agree that the majority of the people at the meets are
there to make money rather than fellowship about trains. There is one hand's
worth of TCA people that will actually talk to me at the meets unless they're
trying to sell me something.

Here's my problem. There is no one in my area to share and play trains with.
I couldn't even get on chat on Sunday.

I sure appreciate this list group,
Jacques
Group: S-Trains Message: 19216 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: York -- April, 2002
High temperature and humidity did not discourage the faithful from coming out
to the York Fairgrounds for another great TCA Eastern Division train meet.
There were few genuine “Oh mys!”, but there was a wide selection of Gilbert
Flyer available for sale with something for almost every use and in almost
every price range. One gentlemen showed up at the pre-York bandit meet at the
Loucks Rd. Holiday Inn with two tables full of LN/OB goodies that included
accessories, very nice steam engines, and other useful bits to flesh out the
needed items to complete boxed sets. There was a lot of good ol’ straight
forward rolling stock for operators at both the pre-meets and at York,
itself. Nice examples of the more desirable Flyer continue to be pricey. As
an extreme example, boxed LN 1956 NP North coast Limited sets are continuing
to be offered in $7K territory. I succeeded in obtaining some Gilbert that
was on my hit list and shopped around for AF parts, S-sized people,
Plasticville parts, and other bits for the layout. eBay has its place, but
it can not possibly approach the experience of seeing, touching, negotiating,
etc. potential additions to the empire, as well as provide the opportunity to
renew old friendships and make new ones founded on our common love of all
things Gilbert.

Our buddies from SHS were in Purple Hall again with new offerings on display.
Advance samples of composite hoppers and several of the new F-7s that will be
available later this year were to be seen -- the D&RGW A-B being a personal
favorite. The F-7s are going to be beautiful. At the Toy Train Museum
meeting on Thursday afternoon, Bill Bracy, the new President of Lionel, LLC,
stated that that the orders for Flyer offerings in the most current catalog
have been quite good and that Lionel is continuing to favorably look upon
additions to the line. Discussions with representatives at the Lionel display
in White Hall about current and potential future American Flyer products are
now much more lengthy and probing than the brush-offs I encountered about
three-four years ago. Nothing radically new yet, but at least there is
sincere interest.

There was a new (nominally) S scale locomotive (of a kind) at the K-Line
display. Their bargain basement UP Big Boy for O gauge appears to be almost
suitably sized to be reworked to run on S gauge track. When many people
pointed this out to the K-Line reps, they had “Why didn’t we think of that?”
looks on their faces. Unfortunately not available in S, the really nice
bargain basement K-Line Club offering of an PRR A5 0-4-0 all die-cast steam
switcher with slope back tender ($149 conventional, $249 with TMCC/RS 4.0 and
electrocouplers on both ends) may be the all time Steal of the Century. If
engines like these could ever show up in S gauge with their features at this
price point, they would sell like York funnel cakes. The big splash in the O
gauge world this York was the introduction of MTH’s DCS command control
system for the operation of MTH Proto 2.0 and Lionel TMCC engines.

York -- there is no substitute.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 19217 From: nasglibrary Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: 1:64 instruction sheets uploaded
All --

The Russell M. Mobley Memorial Library is pleased to announce that it
has completed gathering permissions for replication and distribution of
its instruction sheets and plans. The complete list can be found in the

S-Trains "files" (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/).

Go to the Russell M. Mobley Library folder and open the file
labeled "Instruc. Sht. Catalog.htm." It's in html format, which means
it's compatible with all browsers.

Dick Karnes, Librarian
Russell M. Mobley Memorial Library
Group: S-Trains Message: 19218 From: jahoozdumm Date: 4/22/2002
Subject: Re: York -- April, 2002
RB wrote:

>Bill Bracy, the new President of Lionel, LLC, stated that that the
>orders for Flyer offerings in the most current catalog have been
>quite good

If those "Flyer offerings" include the accessories being made, orders
should be quite good, so many zero gaugers are buying them.


>Lionel is continuing to favorably look upon additions to the line.
><snip> Nothing radically new yet, but at least there is sincere
>interest.

Hoo-BOY! Still the artists, those folks at the Big L! ROFLOL!


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19219 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: Re: York -- April, 2002
In a message dated 4/23/02 2:38:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
eighthmile@... writes:

RB writes: >Bill Bracy, the new President of Lionel, LLC, stated that that
the orders for Flyer offerings in the most current catalog have been quite
good <<

<<If those "Flyer offerings" include the accessories being made, orders
should be quite good, so many zero gaugers are buying them. >>

The orders for the NYC set and the RI GP are decent, too. They are sharp
enough to know that the O crowd would buy the accessories, too. That along
with Mikey redoing the 785 is what gave them the inducement to do them.

>Lionel is continuing to favorably look upon additions to the line. <snip>
Nothing radically new yet, but at least there is sincere interest.<

Hoo-BOY! Still the artists, those folks at the Big L! ROFLOL! >>

Well, THEY brought up the AF topic while I was discussing their new K-4s with
them. Most of those guys are fairly honest so when they did not care several
years ago, it was pretty obvious. L has their hands full with Mikey on one
side and K-Line on the other (along with their own internal inertia, of
course), so we'll see. I'm just reporting what I heard and observed. Let's
just say that the body language has greatly improved.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 19220 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains
group.

File : /EStationGATS3_w.jpg
Uploaded by : cbtrainnut <Cbtrainnut1@...>
Description : another view of layout

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/EStationGATS3_w.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

cbtrainnut <Cbtrainnut1@...>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19221 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains
group.

File : /EStationGATS_w.jpg
Uploaded by : cbtrainnut <Cbtrainnut1@...>
Description : 1st view of 4X12

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/EStationGATS_w.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

cbtrainnut <Cbtrainnut1@...>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19222 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains
group.

File : /ChrisGATS_w.jpg
Uploaded by : cbtrainnut <Cbtrainnut1@...>
Description : The Trainnut

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/ChrisGATS_w.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

cbtrainnut <Cbtrainnut1@...>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19223 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: BLANTANT AD
My new web site for smoke fluid is almost done. www.anormal1.com You can
still order from anormal1@...
Thank You Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19224 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: 30B
Are the meters on a 30B right when they show about volts at 0mph. At
60-70mph they show 15v. Is this correct? I know that at 0mph there is still
voltage to keep the E-unit at bay. Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19225 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: 4-6-6-4 update
Hi all, though I give everyone an update on where I am at with
my "little" project he he he. The wife struck me down with a back
log of honey do's and I am all caught up ;-) I have been able to do
little bits of pieces here and there but nothing really substantial.
Basically the only things left to finish are the valve gear brackets
and movement, finding a MTH fan smoke unit that will fit, finish
finding parts for the Northern tender shell I picked up and
installing the headlight.
Oh ya, I still may convert over to an AC can motor but that is still
up in the air right now.
The valve gear hanging brackets have been a royal pain in the A** and
I have had to make them over twice already because I didn't like the
way they looked. It has taken a lot of sheet metal bending, cutting,
brazing and drilling to get it right and now that they are all
fabricated, the rods are binding up in places through out the
movement. The next step is to break it all down again for final
fitting and to pray that I don't break anything when I am doing it
(that has happened a few times as well). Since the front chassis is
not powered, it is very important for everything to work smoothly so
the wheels won't drag and derail the engine.

On the tender I have a very nice Northern tender shell that needs a
base with wheels and all of the railings. I am also going to make an
aux tender to go behind that but I am still at the drawing board with
that idea.

Now for the rest of the train... I am going to get a string of
reefers to go behind this monster and they are going to be a mix if
SHS beer reefers and some of my favorites of the stock ACG
offerings. To top it all off, I just picked up a nice brakeman
caboose to bring up the rear.

Some of my other project ideas... My next chop job may be a GS4
hybrid using some junker royal blues and a northern chassis or maybe
2 Atlantic chassis butted together, also on my list is a 2-4-4-2, a
Big Boy or Yellowstone and maybe another Challenger using a different
style valve gear.

Is there anyone on this list in So Calif. that has a layout? I don't
have anything to run on and I will need to do some testing very
soon. The best I can do is an oval of track that I use at Christmas
time for around the bottom of the tree.
Thanks all
TTYL,
Fred
Group: S-Trains Message: 19226 From: Donald Abrams Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: Belated -- Products I'd like to see
I realize how much we have in S that's new and also to repair the vintage
stuff.
Like the DC can motor conversions for steamers (regular and low speed),
Baldwin drop in replacement chassis, Trainmaster, and soon to be released PA
drop in repower retrofits. But when doing a repair the other night I
realized what we may have overlooked on our recent wish list.
How about a 'drop in' repower for the handcars???
Maybe the price could be held down by utilizing some components from the
donor handcar. It seems as if you can get one to run at all you must
disconnect the men from the mechanism, and even then they growl like crazy
and get blazing hot within a few minutes.
I know I could be counted in for at least two. Probably more from my
customers.

Don
Group: S-Trains Message: 19227 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: Caig . . . again.
I just got all those Caig boxes mailed out today, expect them shortly.

I included instructions. I mistakenly put my e-mail address in as a .com
(Dot Com). I hand corrected many, but for those which I didn't, it's
busyboy@... . Dot Net!

I taped all the jar tops (except for one that I missed). The lids all came
loose on their way to me and I did not want any accidents.

Two jars opened on the trip here. The lids were cracked from poor packing.
One spilled it's guts all over the packing peanuts and some of the jars. I
washed some, some may need a little more cleaning. All the jars I shipped
are full, but some may have stains from the spillage.

I'm holding the one cracked top for a replacement. The other is mine, so I
will await a replacement as well. Lou Templeton, yours was the last check.
We wait together.

Let me know when you get these things and in what condition they arrive.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19228 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: unsubscribe
unsubscribe
Group: S-Trains Message: 19229 From: jahoozdumm Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: Re: York -- April, 2002
RB wrote:

>I'm just reporting what I heard and observed.

Of course you are, RB, and I do thank you for the report.
It's nothing against you. No, really. :^)


>They are sharp enough to know that the O crowd would buy the
>accessories, too.

Yes, real sharp. How many decades did they need to figure that out?
Two? Three?


>That along with Mikey redoing the 785 is what gave them the
>inducement to do them.

Of course. And only the success of SHS and AM (both of which I intend
to devote my limited resources to aiding) has induced them to change
their tone and adjust their "body language" where S is concerned.
They've lost most of us, and they know it.


>Well, THEY brought up the AF topic while I was discussing their new
>K-4s with them.

The dickens you say! Wasn't that nice of them!


>Most of those guys are fairly honest

I'm sure. It's the "fairly" part (along with Lionel/AF history) that
makes me skeptical. Then again, it is quite possible that some at the
Big L are actually beginning to believe the ruse themselves.


>so when they did not care several years ago, it was pretty obvious.

It wasn't so obvious to a lot of people, though it should have been.
Lionel has always given us some version of "maybe, IF..." with each
passing year. Every year a few S gaugers buy into it, "But it's
DIFFERENT this year!" and every year it's the Same Old Repainted
Thing.


>we'll see.

You bet we will, just as in years past. And we know WHAT we'll see.


>Let's just say that the body language has greatly improved.

Lionel's S gauge PR is certainly improving, and as I said, some of
them may be buying into their own PR.

I just hate to see folks get their hopes up, only to get them tromped
on. Not that your report isn't appreciated, RB, but normal breathing
continues here, between yawns, anyway. I don't hold you responsible
for the yawns.

|^O


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19230 From: roy inman Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: Re: York -- April, 2002
I must humbly disagree with the statement that L is producing more S stuff
because of SHS
and AM.
We all know the quality, realism, produced by these and other S
manufacturers. But from a strictly marketing point of view, their numbers
are too small to even be a blip on Lionel's screen.
The only reason we are seeing some LAF equipment now is because MTH has
started producing sorta-kinda Gilbert accessories, (or, depending upon your
point of view, the MTH stuff is more Gilbert that the LAF. Whatever.)
Want to take bets that if MTH introduced an S Steamer, say 4-8-4 Northern in
ATSF, (or pick your favorite road name) that Lionel would scramble to do a
similar? And as pointed out, the O crowd now becomes a crossover market-sort
of like some country western songs cross over to the rock market and vise
versa.
Point is, without MTH in the market, Lionel wouldn't be either. Remember, L
had virtually abandoned Flyer until MTH popped up...
Cheers :)
Roy Inman



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19232 From: jahoozdumm Date: 4/23/2002
Subject: Re: York -- April, 2002
Roy Inman wrote:

>I must humbly disagree with the statement that L is producing more S
>stuff because of SHS and AM.

Ok, Roy, but I don't see where anyone made such a statement.
According to RB's report, changes at Lionel have so far consisted
only of things like "sincere interest" and new "body language." They
haven't DONE anything new, such as develop new products.

>L had virtually abandoned Flyer
>until MTH popped up...

Lionel has made small amounts of AF since 1979, including a reissue
of the Oil Drum loader. Despite reissuing an unusual number of AF
accessories recently, Lionel ISN'T making more than the usual
smattering of S gauge ROLLING STOCK this year at all, whether
reacting to SHS, AM, OR MTH. They've always reissued a few pieces of
AF rolling stock annually, (more some years than others) and have
done that long before MTH made any AF-like accessories. The reissues
of AF accessories over the last couple of years were indeed "induced"
by MTH to some degree, but the issue that I was addressing was
Lionel's supposed change of ATTITUDE regarding AF-specific engines
and other rollingstock, and the unlikely change in ACTION that it may
make. (Remember that Carly Simon song, "Attitude Dancing"? "Do the
Locomotion with a new attitude...")


>We all know the quality, realism, produced by these and other S
>manufacturers. But from a strictly marketing point of view, their
>numbers are too small to even be a blip on Lionel's screen.

SHS and AM are no small blip on Lionel's AMERICAN FLYER screen. The
reason their noises about making AF in the future might be friendlier
than usual is because they know that they're losing what little S
gauge clientele they've had to SHS, AM, and others. That HAS gotten
and will continue to get their attention, regardless of what's going
on with O gauge. The question is: Is it enough? Probably not yet, I
concede. Lionel is a slow study where AF is concerned. But they can't
ignore the handwriting on the S scale wall forever.

Make no mistake, defections from AF to SHS and AM are worrying
Lionel, regardless of how the S gauge market compares to O gauge,
even in their perspective. The only way to get Lionel to make
significant developments with AF is to reject their (so far) lame
offerings, and let them watch their S gauge clock get cleaned by SHS
and AM. If they really care about AF at all, only competition from
other brands will nudge them to do something worthwhile with it.
That's what worked with O gauge, S gauge is no different.

Of course, if they DON"T really care, well, nothing will resurrect
AF. But playing into what has so far been a perennial pretense won't
help either way.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19233 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Lionel and AF
Did someone say Lionel and AF? I thought they both went out of business a
long time ago.!

CHRIS THE TRAINNUT


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19234 From: Paul Yorke Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Off Topic - Virus (maybe)
If you get a note from me with an attachment, don't
open it.
I got a note today telling me that a note I sent to
one of you about a FoxPro drive was undeliverable. I
never sent any such note so ... watch out.
I will investigate more when I get home tonight.

=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19235 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: no respect
I drive a Buick Le Sabre. One of the best cars made
in America. Does it get good review or any reviews.
No. Do the buyers like it. Yes. Magazines sell sizzel.
What mag. relates to the real world? Not Play Boy,
Car and Driver, or any other mag. They are just wish
books of stuff we can't have. Having AF trains and an
AMF bike as a kid I am used to rejections. Lionel
just caught up with AF sound sytems of 1956. But they
never will have good track, so how real can they be as
they compete with G gauge and HO, N etc. WE need to
get to all meets with lay outs and I have not had any
real support in Nashville yet. We all have to help.
Jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19236 From: mlmarmer Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: eBay item 1724050885 (Ends Apr-24-02 074952 PDT ) - American Flyer
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1724050885

The auction ends in 2 hours, but it has been on Ebay several times. I am not interested in it, but it is weird that it keeps popping up on Ebay. Anybody know anything about this piece?

Had a great time at York.

Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19237 From: mlmarmer Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] eBay item 1724050885 (Ends Apr-24-02 074952 PDT ) -
Larry,

I believe in the fine print, at least in the previous auctions, they wrote
the car was still inside and this was a "model" of the car. Okay, fine,
but
it keeps reappearing. Once it was won for 50 some dollars and keeps
getting
higher in the re-bids!

Mike http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1724050885
Group: S-Trains Message: 19238 From: David Dewey Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Re: eBay item 1724050885 (Ends Apr-24-02 074952 PDT ) - American Fl
Maybe the guy found a dealer's case of them??
Stranger things have happened!
Now if I could just find a Dealer's case of NP sets. . . . .
Heck, If I could just find a Dealer's case of almost any AF!--that I could
get for a song, of course!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19239 From: mlmarmer Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Re: eBay item 1724050885 (Ends Apr-24-02 074952 PDT ) - American Fl
David,

I thought of that, but I still wonder. I am afraid to ask him why it keeps
re-appearing after the 712 track piece in box and "ex-mint" car question.

Just was wondering if anyone else notice this car, from time to time on
Ebay.

Mike
Group: S-Trains Message: 19240 From: trzp1800 Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Gray Paint for Depressed Center Searchlight Cars
Hi:
Does anyone know of a "readily available" source for a "close match"
to the medium gray used on the depressed center search light cars?
I'm rebuilding one and needed to strip the top surfaces. Have left
the "sides" original with the original lettering and want to match
the color fairly close, but i'm not enough of a "purist" to insist on
a custom color unless there's just no other way.

What says youse "experienced" guys out there?
Regards,
Ted
Group: S-Trains Message: 19241 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Re: eBay item 1724050885 (Ends Apr-24-02 074952 PDT ) - American Fl
How about another question guys...Look at the 631 red gondola I am bidding
on....seach for 1723675311 which I lost on.....Looks very similar? Bob
Conner
----- Original Message -----
From: "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@...>
To: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>; <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] eBay item 1724050885 (Ends Apr-24-02 074952 PDT ) -
American Flyer 924 CRP Hopp


> David,
>
> I thought of that, but I still wonder. I am afraid to ask him why it
keeps
> re-appearing after the 712 track piece in box and "ex-mint" car question.
>
> Just was wondering if anyone else notice this car, from time to time on
> Ebay.
>
> Mike
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19242 From: Doug Peck Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] Latest VIRUS alert
<<<<Some fanatic who obviously has too much time on their hands has released
another virus... or has re-released a recent virus... this one is called :

W32/Klez.gen@MM

If you get "ANY" e-mail from ANYONE you do not know, I highly recommend you
DO NOT OPEN IT... especially if the title/subject seems a bit strange.

This virus has tried twice to infiltrate my system via e-mail, but luckily
my updated McAfee ViruScan caught and dealt with it.>>>>

John is correct.....this same one hit me SIX times in two days, via email.
NORTON caught it every time.

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST weeknights.
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please.)
Website: www.portlines.com
E-mail: doug@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 19243 From: mlmarmer Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Re: eBay item 1724050885 (Ends Apr-24-02 074952 PDT ) - American Fl
David,

I went to this seller's feedback to search out the other sales of this car,
and found two of those sales.

One was sold on 3/28 for $68, one on 3/2 for $66 and today it went for $73.
Keeps going up! I think I remember seeing it for the first time at $56.

So maybe, he had a master case. I thought it was strange seeing it over and
over again and hopefully it is the end of the never ending 924 covered mint
hoppper sealed in plastic! O:)

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "mike thielle" <mthielle@...>;
"mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] eBay item 1724050885 (Ends Apr-24-02 074952 PDT ) -
American Flyer 924 CRP Hopp


> Maybe the guy found a dealer's case of them??
> Stranger things have happened!
> Now if I could just find a Dealer's case of NP sets. . . . .
> Heck, If I could just find a Dealer's case of almost any AF!--that I could
> get for a song, of course!
> S'
> David D.
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19244 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Re: York -- April, 2002 - Lionel
Well, Chuck seems to have his mind made up, which is his prerogative (See the
vituperations above). For those of you with a more open mind on the subject
of the future of American Flyer you may wish to consider the following:

1. Most of the management (and this does include product development) at
Lionel has undergone a peaceful rotation in the last two years. I've talked
with several of them on more than one occasion and they appear to be a
reasonable and open-minded bunch. The situation there has shifted lately.

2. Lionel is now a low cost importer, like most everyone else in the toy
train biz in the USA. Opportunities for new tooling and cost control are more
favorable for producing new trains, including AF.

3. Coinciding with the rotation (#1 above) Lionel finally inventoried all of
the old Gilbert tooling. This is as big a factor in the appearance of new
accessories as anything else.

4. For all of the attention that SHS and AM rightly receive on this board,
these two do not appear to figure too highly in their thinking. One can
speculate that company size may be part of it, but if one considers that the
strengths a Lionel might bring to a reinvigorated Flyer are rather different
than what our current players bring to the marketplace, this might not be an
unreasonable stance. Lionel (and MTH for that matter) are routinely offering
all sorts of high quality goodies in 0 with creditable pricing in
superabundance.

So, one can be negative and probably be correct in being so. But, as long as
there is some hope of getting a greater range of product into S, I am not
about to discourage anyone with a chip on my shoulder at York, or elsewhere.

That's my say.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 19245 From: erierailroad@aol.com Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Re: eBay item 1724050885 (Ends Apr-24-02 074952 PDT ) - American F.
I think those guys were taken for a ride. I don't think that type of
cellophane was invented yet when the car was made.


Jack


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19246 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Re: York -- April, 2002 - Lionel
All said well, but all said before.

This is the never ending saga of the L.D. 's, the Lionel Disillusioned.
Lionel can bring out a Big Boy, a Challenger, a Mohawk and a set of scale
smooth-sided streamliners. The L.D.'s would say: "Sure, but look, it's a
Penn Central, who'd want that? And besides, it's got a Vista Dome. That's
not prototype!" and "The only reason Lionel is bringing out a Mohawk is
because MTH is. And it's only a re-hash of the Flyer Northern anyway."
"The Challenger is just the Mohawk with extra wheels." "The Big Boy in S
isn't made as well as the 0 Gauge version."

You cannot win. You cannot even bring peace to this battlefield. Lionel is
our Gaza strip.

People who have not been in business will never appreciate the bottom line
thinking process of those who have a multi-million dollar company to run.
People who are viewing the market as consumers see no difference between the
presence of a Lionel and an SHS in the marketplace. They are like movie
viewers who spend 2 hours in a dark theater viewing a flick. Was it
entertaining? Yes. Did you enjoy it? Yes. One week it was "El Mariachi",
budget $7000, the next week, "Star Wars II", budget $93,000,000. Both were
fun. Both were two hours long. Both cost $8.50 to see. So . . . they're
equal.

Don Thompson has a day job. SHS is a hobby gone wild for him. Lionel is a
100 year old megalith, with a board of directors and shareholders. SHS and
AM are mildly amusing to them. They do not consider them as realistic
market indicators. They DO watch Mike at MTH. When he moves, they react.
They are the lumbering giant. Mike is the nimble Jack on the beanstalk.

The bottom line for S gaugers is this. Get over your emotional hangups. My
dad CAN beat up your dad, and that's it! The Yankees ARE a dynasty, no
matter what team you root for. Fords better than Chevys, who cares? Get on
the S gauge team and get over the rest. If Lionel gets with the program, it
will become a BIG program, and it will be good for us all. Take the gun
away from your foot. Quiet down and join up as one. I bought all the
Lionel 2002 stuff except the PA set. That hit my budget limit. I want this
thing to succeed. I support SHS and AM and all the others, but I know how
these Lionel guys think.

So stop with the smart-ass snipey answers. Get on board for the future of
this hobby. Here is how that future is going to shake out.

For the next ten years or so, there will be a great leap in production, with
the big boys coming on board. Then, after the renaissance of renaissances,
it will commence to wane, falling, in about ten years to lows reminiscent of
the early 70's. If we play our cards right, we'll have all the trains we
need by then. We'll play with them for a few great years, then we'll die.
They'll be worth almost nothing as the market will be flooded by widows
divesting what they believe are valuable collectibles that no one really
wants. If I die first, my wife will be lucky and sell all my trains to you
guys. If I live to be real old, I'll break the news to her gently.

Stop carping about Lionel. You are wasting valuable energy.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19247 From: mlmarmer Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Re: eBay item 1724050885 (Ends Apr-24-02 074952 PDT ) - American F.
I think this person implied that he wrapped it in cellophane himself to
protect the box from wear. And yes, this car in Mint with the box is about
$44 according to the TM book, but if they really wanted it, so be it, for 56
to 73 dollars they paid for the 4 of these cars. No worse than the pricing
I saw at York for stuff in VG condition going for E pricing or higher.

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: <erierailroad@...>
To: <mlmarmer@...>
Cc: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] eBay item 1724050885 (Ends Apr-24-02 074952 PDT ) -
American F...


> I think those guys were taken for a ride. I don't think that type of
> cellophane was invented yet when the car was made.
>
>
> Jack
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19248 From: yazfacts Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: 5 digit M.K.T. Boxcar......
Dear Group,
Like a lot of you who went to York last week , we all came
back with a few stories. I have a bute !! I was at Bill Parr's table (
display ) and there was a guy buying a five digit 24016 A.F.M.K.T.
Boxcar from Bill and I happen to glance over his shoulder and see
it.It was beautiful ! I leaned over to my friend and said I think that
one was the expensive version .The two were chatting away and Bill
said ," 13 , and that a real good price." I then thought to myself
that I have the three digit version (937) and I think I paid $30.00
for it about five years ago , boy did I get ripped off !! Later that
night for the heck of it, I looked up the price and it listed for
$1100.00 WOW !! AND THIS GUY PAID $1300.00 CASH FOR IT!! What a dope I
was,huh !It was a good thing that I didn't open my big mouth and say
I'll give you $15 ( dollars ) for it !!?? Now I'm a die hard Flyer guy,
but I also buy a lot of SHS and AM trains because of the price and
quality.
Can you imagin how much SHS and AM items that you could buy for
$1300.00 !!$$ ?? .......just an observation....Bob S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19249 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Gray Paint
Greetings to all! Ted, the following may help in your search for a gray
paint "match". I used it to redo a 627 and a 634 that I found in "junk
boxes". Start with Model Master RLM66 (Schwarzgrau) at 4:1. The one being
either a drop of white or black depending on the shading of your car. You
may, depending on the sheen of the remaining paint, need to give this an
overcoat of a mix of Dullcote/Glosscote. I did this with a basic airbrush
and it gave me two very presentable cars for the layout plus a few evening
of relaxation! Good luck with your efforts...let us know how it turns out.
Best wishes to all! Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 19250 From: Dale Smith Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Re: California, here I come!
I agree and heartily recommend him. His name is Don Matthies and I have
bought a lot of flyer and S-helper from him over the years at local train
shows. He has really fair prices and is exclusively S gauge. By the way he
is located in Hayward, which is just a few miles west of Pleasanton. You
will need to call ahead, because I think he operates out of his house or a
nearby shop by appointment. Last I talked to him, he was about to get a new
lot of Flyer, so maybe you could luck out there too if he has the stuff.

Dale Smith
Pacifica, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: <anormal1@...>
To: <thorin.marty@...>; <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] California, here I come!


> Thorin,
> Try norcaltt@... He is in the bay area & handles a lot
of
> AM Stuff.E-mail him for address & direct. to his shop. Mike
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19251 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: BLANTANT AD
I have an HO Gantry Crane by Renwal. # 461:1295. Also it is #'ed 461.I know
it is HO But the good news is the parts can be used to build a really nice
"S" gantry crane. It swivels 180 deg's comes with 2 clam shells & an electro
maganet . I believe a good kit basher could use the motors and gears to build
this thing. Has the motors &the gears? Two control units. I tried a hopper
under the crane & it fit well. I found the inst. sheet it is old but looks
like it was never used. I'd like $25 for it & that includes shipping. First
to contact me gets it. Contact me off list.
Second is a #462 coaling station looks like it was never used but is old
like from the late 50's early 60's. I checked the screw motor & it works. It
has Piers to raise the track so you can dump the coalinto the bin. Then a
screw to load it onto a waiting car. The parts can be used to kit bash into a
s-scale set up. $25.00 for it shipping included. Contact me off list.
On both kits it is the parts that can be used to . If you buy both I can
combine the shipping & the price would be $40.00. Create your own crane &
coaling station with the proper size buildings. Mike




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19252 From: jahoozdumm Date: 4/24/2002
Subject: Re: York -- April, 2002 - Lionel
RB wrote:

>Well, Chuck seems to have his mind made up

It's not that my mind is "made up", it's just that I'm no longer
naive enough to buy into Lionel's annual PR. I'm waiting to see what
they actually do. If that's being "close minded", so be it. It is
possible to have a mind that's TOO "open", people tend to dump
garbage in it.


>For those of you with a more open mind on the subject
>of the future of American Flyer you may wish to consider the
>following:
>1. Most of the management (and this does include product
>development) at Lionel has undergone a peaceful rotation in the last
>two years.

Lionel has gone through many management turnovers since the post-
Cowan era began, peaceful and, uh, non-peaceful (whatever that means.)
Once the new guys got settled, the talk regarding AF would always
entail things like "reconsideration", "new attitudes", "fresh
outlook", and so on.


>I've talked with several of them on more than one occasion and they
>appear to be a reasonable and open-minded bunch.

Do you think Richard Kughn was "reasonable and open-minded" as
regards his treatment of American Flyer when he owned Lionel?
Probably not, given the attitudes toward AF that, with the benefit of
hindsight, we all know prevailed at Lionel during that era. In the
early 1990s I wrote a couple of letters to Mr. Kughn. (I took their
appeal for "input" seriously.) In the course of the exchange I
received two lengthy letters from him, that portrayed him as not
only "reasonable" and "open-minded", but downwrite receptive,
FRIENDLY even! A regular guy! Know what he said? "Your ideas dovetail
with many of our own..." Can you believe that? We had agreement! We
had DOVETAILING goin' on! Reasonable? The guy came off as a veritable
pushover!

What he turned out to be was a master diplomat. As history indicates,
nothing impinging AF changed significantly at Lionel. It appears that
the only idea I mentioned in my letters that really "dovetailed" with
the Big L's plans was the practice of using certain existing O-27
items as S conversions, a practice I told RK I had resorted to in an
attempt to bring variety to my own fleet. Apparently, the idea seemed
to them like a good way to get more mileage out of their O-27 stuff.
Yep, the bobble-head horsecar was their idea of "new" S gauge. Big
whoop.


>The situation there >has shifted lately.

The situation's always shifting at Lionel. That's part of their
problem.


>Opportunities for new tooling and cost control are more
>favorable for producing new trains, including AF.

From a development cost standpoint, maybe, but another thing to
consider is this: It will be much more difficult for Lionel to
compete in the S market now than it would have been ten, or even five
years ago. There's too much EXCELLENT product out there for Lionel to
re-hash the old stuff as per their previous efforts. The bar has been
raised considerably.

And of course, whatever cost savings Lionel incurs, they will
certainly be quick to pass the savings on to the consumer, right? Re-
hashed Gilbert boxcars won't cost 50 bucks anymore, right? :^) (Now I
AM dreaming.)


>3. Coinciding with the rotation (#1 above) Lionel finally
>inventoried all of the old Gilbert tooling. This is as big a factor
>in the appearance of new accessories as anything else.

That will merely have them locked into the same old re-issue mode
that's been killing AF from the start! THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY"VE
BEEN DOING SINCE 1979! See what I mean when I say nothing beneath the
surface has changed?


>4. For all of the attention that SHS and AM rightly receive on this
>board, these two do not appear to figure too highly in their
>thinking.

It's called a "poker face", RB. Of course SHS and AM don't APPEAR
to "figure too highly in their thinking"! Do you think they'd tell
anyone if they did?


>if one considers that the strengths a Lionel might bring to a
>reinvigorated Flyer are rather different than what our current
>players bring to the marketplace, this might not be an
>unreasonable stance.

The only S gauge "strengths" that Lionel has had since 1979 is the
name "American Flyer", and Lionel has pretty much squandered that
advantage. As for a "reinvigorated Flyer", we've seen what Lionel's
idea of that is. It ain't enough.


>Lionel (and MTH for that matter) are routinely offering
>all sorts of high quality goodies in 0 with creditable pricing in
>superabundance.

Which is something Lionel steadfastly refuses to do in S. The only
reason they did so in O was because MTH (and K-Line and Atlas and
Weaver and others) were busting their chops on their own court!


>So, one can be negative and probably be correct in being so.

On this subject, that's for sure! :^) But seriously, when avoiding
negativity becomes more important than being "correct" (read: right),
we are all in big trouble. Reality CAN be negative, and ignoring it
can be fatal.


>as long as there is some hope of getting a greater range of product
>into S, I am not about to discourage anyone

Assuming such an hope exists, neither am I. But I won't be schmoozed,
either.


>I am not about to discourage anyone with a chip on my shoulder at
>York, or elsewhere.

Who intimated that you SHOULD have a "chip on [your] shoulder"?
I think you may be reading something into my remarks that isn't
there. Refusing to be hoodwinked is not "having a chip on [one's]
shoulder", though people will sometimes accuse you of such things
when you don't automatically swallow what they're feeding you. It's a
diversion, a defense mechanism.

I would like to see Lionel make a real try with AF, but you know what
it will take to succeed? Lionel would need to bring AF full steam,
full throttle, full speed into the 21st Century. The line needs a
complete overhaul, on the level that A.C. Gilbert put it through
between 1938 and 1946. Nothing less will succeed for AF now. It is
very unlikely that Lionel is willing to do that, and THAT is what
will keep AF in the museum.

Hope if you want to, but be prepared for a letdown.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19253 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Flyer in Ohio????
Hello all,

I'll be spending the weekend in Ohio April 27 & 28. Are there any
shows, hobby shops, flea markets, etc. this weekend where I might
find some Flyer? Anywhere within, let's say, 300 miles of Columbus
is fair game. Thanks for any information you can provide.

BG1
Group: S-Trains Message: 19254 From: mlmarmer Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer in Ohio????
Check the phonebook in Columbus to see if the Blue Caboose in Columbus is
still in Business. I have a number if you want it. Also in CTT is a shop
in Galena near Columbus. www.jnbtoys.com

Also, somewhere near Cincinnati is a Huge flea market called Trader's World.
There was a booth with trains, including Flyer. I picked up a nice 343
engine there in the early 90's, but with turnover, who knows. I am sure the
place is still there, almost a "York" type of Flea Heaven! You might find
something there.

Have fun,

Mike
Germantown, MD
----- Original Message -----
From: "bull_gator_1" <bull_gator_1@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 7:50 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Flyer in Ohio????


> Hello all,
>
> I'll be spending the weekend in Ohio April 27 & 28. Are there any
> shows, hobby shops, flea markets, etc. this weekend where I might
> find some Flyer? Anywhere within, let's say, 300 miles of Columbus
> is fair game. Thanks for any information you can provide.
>
> BG1
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19255 From: mlmarmer Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] Latest VIRUS alert
Receive an email from "consumer" and McAfee caught it as a virus. It had no
subject matter.

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Peck" <portlines@...>
To: <showcaseline@yahoogroups.com>; <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 4:19 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] RE: [showcaseline] Latest VIRUS alert


> <<<<Some fanatic who obviously has too much time on their hands has
released
> another virus... or has re-released a recent virus... this one is called :
>
> W32/Klez.gen@MM
>
> If you get "ANY" e-mail from ANYONE you do not know, I highly recommend
you
> DO NOT OPEN IT... especially if the title/subject seems a bit strange.
>
> This virus has tried twice to infiltrate my system via e-mail, but luckily
> my updated McAfee ViruScan caught and dealt with it.>>>>
>
> John is correct.....this same one hit me SIX times in two days, via email.
> NORTON caught it every time.
>
> Doug Peck
> Port Lines Hobby Supply
> 6 Storeybrooke Drive
> Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
> Shop Hours: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST weeknights.
> 978-465-8798
> 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please.)
> Website: www.portlines.com
> E-mail: doug@...
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19256 From: Richard J. Nicholls Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Question about Drop Wires for DCC
S-gaugers,

I need your recommendation. My local Model Railroad Club
here in Clarion, Pennsylvania has finally decided to add an S-gauge
layout to their existing N, HO, O, and G-scale layouts. (Indeed,
they have acquired about 550 feet of SHS ballasted S-Trax and 160
feet of SHS Flextrak.) Currently the club runs its N and HO trains
using DIGITRAX DCC ... and ultimately they also want to convert the
new S-gauge layout to DCC. My questions: Assuming the layout will
be set up for the next ten years, should the drop wires be at every
joint, every other joint, or every four feet? ... and both before
and after turnouts? Any hints from those of you having experience
with DCC will be appreciated!

Thanks and regards,
Richard Nicholls

--
Group: S-Trains Message: 19257 From: joshseltzer Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: NASG 2002 Tour information & signup
Tour information and sign up forms are now avaliable on the CVSGA
website www.cvsga.org . The printable pages are in Adobe .pdf format.

Please note the special notice on the Friday am train trip. We got
the St. Lucie car!

Josh Seltzer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19258 From: Robert Jackson Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Question about Drop Wires for DCC
"Richard J. Nicholls" wrote:

> S-gaugers,
>
> I need your recommendation. My local Model Railroad Club
> here in Clarion, Pennsylvania has finally decided to add an S-gauge
> layout to their existing N, HO, O, and G-scale layouts. (Indeed,
> they have acquired about 550 feet of SHS ballasted S-Trax and 160
> feet of SHS Flextrak.) Currently the club runs its N and HO trains
> using DIGITRAX DCC ... and ultimately they also want to convert the
> new S-gauge layout to DCC. My questions: Assuming the layout will
> be set up for the next ten years, should the drop wires be at every
> joint, every other joint, or every four feet? ... and both before
> and after turnouts? Any hints from those of you having experience
> with DCC will be appreciated!

I have a Digitrax controlled S scale layout. Digitrax recommends drops be
made about every nine feet or so. Some on this list have used much longer
distances than that. What I do is place an electrical drop very near the
joint between two rail lengths at every other joint. In other words, about
every six feet. I solder the rail joiners at the point of the electrical
drop but no where else.
Bob Jackson
Group: S-Trains Message: 19259 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer in Ohio????
In a message dated 4/25/02 8:22:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mlmarmer@...
writes:


> Huge flea market called Trader's World

The train guy from traders world closed up about 10 yrs ago guys. My wife and
I go there twice a year so I can get some good cheap tools. Blue Caboose is
still in Columbus on Indianola Ave. It,s a few exits up from the State fair
Grounds.
There is also Alan Evans in Columbus. I can't find his card just yet, but I
will forward info when I find it.
CHRIS THE TRAINNUT


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19260 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Hopelessly off topic -- Want an old watch
Gentlemen and Ladies:

I am trying to find an old Timex watch (model M-462) to replace the M-462
currently on my arm. Does anyone know where I should look?

Thorin

---- Additional details below ----

In 1978 I purchased a model M-462 digital watch. In 1986 I was able to find
a second copy of this watch. In 1992 I started repairing the buttons,
display, etc. on these watches, cross-combining parts to keep one running.
After each repair, I wonder if this was the last time I could repair it.

I really need a new copy of this watch. Even junker will provide parts.
Where do I get one?

The watch has a normal time zone, chronograph, alarm, timer, and a second
time zone. It play a song, "Aura Lee" for about 15 seconds when the alarm
goes off.

On the normal time zone, the display shows the day of week in the upper
left, the date in the upper right, and the time below.
On the chronograph, the display shows CH in the upper left, the normal time
in the upper right, and the chronograph time below.
On the timer, the display shows TR in the upper left, the normal time in the
upper right, and the count-down time below.
On the alarm, the display shows AL in the upper left, the normal time in the
upper right, and the alarm time below.
On the second time zone, the display shows T2 in the upper left, the normal
time in the upper right, and the second time zone below.

I have been actively hunting for a new watch since about 1990, not
restricting myself to Timex. Not one of the watches I have found has at
least these features and plays a song for the alarm. (It is amazing the
number of babies I have quieted over the years with that song.)

Thanks!
Thorin


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wisconsin Electric - Wisconsin Gas is now We Energies.
Please use our new email extension "we-energies.com"
when addressing email to this sender,
e.g., john.doe@....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19261 From: mlmarmer Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer in Ohio????
Hi Chris,

Sorry to hear about the closing of the shop in Trader's world. It was about
1992, when we visited the area to see a good friend in Cincinnati, reason
for stopping in Columbus, to visit the Blue Caboose.

But being a huge flea market, like that, since you have been there before,
you never know what may be sitting at one of the vendors. A great place to
visit, if anyone on the list is passing by and have the time.

Good searching in Ohio,

Mike
Group: S-Trains Message: 19262 From: wintermutedm Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Garden S
Hi everyone. I have not posted to this list yet, but have been
reading and gleaming information from it for several months now. I
finally have a question.

Has anyone here created an S-Gauge garden railroad? I noticed that
Gargraves produces stainless-steel track, supposedly for "indoor-
outdoor" use.... so I am guessing this might be possible. I finally
bought my first house (wow! a backyard and space for an indoor
layout: bit bigger than a 2-bedroom apartment). I think a simple loop-
type of layout around the small (4X6') pond in the backyard would be
really cool, but have no idea how to go about it.

I mostly run old ACG American Flyer trains. I doubt that the garden-
railroad would need any accessories, so AC or DC would probably be ok
(though I don't know which would be better... I use AC indoors). I
have a GFI power source outside for the pond, and would probably
power the trains from there.

Anyway, I have never heard of anyone doing a garden layout in S-
gauge... but hey, why not? Any input would be appreciated!

Thanks all!

-Denny Merritt
(Bolingbrook, IL)
Group: S-Trains Message: 19263 From: bassflyer Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Flyer Dead....??
**(((I bought all the Lionel 2002 stuff except the PA set. That
hit my budget limit. I want this thing to succeed.)))***


Chris, did you really say that?? You bought all of the 2002 Lionel
Flyer stuff? (except the PA set)-Is this the same Chris that told me
that Flyer was dead a while back?? --Wink-wink nudge-nudge-- :-)
I and was supporting the idea that Flyer is not dead,...but I have
been buying SHS and On30 stuff!! Where did I take a wrong turn? :-)
I am still waiting on my 2001 Lionel AF Christmas car,...hmmmm..I
may have to start checkin' ebay for one!!

I am headin' up to the Flyer West Fest in Hayward, CA. this
Saturday,...gonna catch up with Howard and that "Duck" fella,(David
Dewey)...I can't miss him,...I hear he wears really loud shirts!!
Hope they come with a volume control!! I might have to wear one of
mine and we'll see who has the loudest/wildest shirt!

Hope every one is having fun with their trains!

I just realized what I had written a few lines ago,....wasn't there
a movie called, "Howard the Duck"??

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19264 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: IN SEARCH OF
Hi Guys,
I have lost the name & address of the person that sent me
the NiCad wire in exchange for some CAIG. Please contact me. Sorry for the
lapse, but I think it had blue something in the address. Mike (Bad Memory) S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19265 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Repro split knuckle couplers
Hi All,

Does anyone know where I can buy some really, really good repro split knuckle couplers? I want to find the very best. I'd appreciate hearing any and all opinions on who sells the best.

Thanks,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19266 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: DC & SMOKE UNIT
I'm in the process of changing my non collector AF engines to DC can motors.
I have found no need for the use of diodes. I use a DC transformer, & wire
the light & smoke units direct to the wheel PU's.The smoke units seem to work
better.
I also am using the scale speed for all my 0-8-0's & Atlantic switchers.
All my Pacific 's run on the higher speed can motors.
The reason being switching engines do not need speed but slow speed control.
Works great.. Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19267 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: IN SEARCH OF
Hi Guys,
I have lost the name & address of the person that sent me
the NiCad wire in exchange for some CAIG. Please contact me. Sorry for the
lapse, but I think it had blue something in the address. Mike (Bad Memory) S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19268 From: Wayne and Alice Beachy Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Gilbert Display layout
Does anyone know where I can find a copy of the track plan for Gilbert display layout # 28113? Thanks.

Wayne Beachy
Atlantic Coast S Gaugers
Virginia Central Division


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19269 From: mlmarmer Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: viruses
Allot of Spam coming across the email and the one from hahaha with the snow white story and attachment.

Don't open anything you are not sure of.

Too many sick people in this world.

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19270 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: RECHROMED 405
Hi Just listed a rechromed 405. I'm selling off most of my "Collector" items
& the runners I'm converting to DC. If someone on this list uses buy it now
let me know you are from this list & i'll wave shipping charges here is the #
It won't show up for about 30 min so you can but it if you like #1726044482.
This is a prime example of Doug Pecks rechromeing & decal work. Thank You,
Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19271 From: Joe Haughney Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Gilbert Hall of Science
Have wonderful memories of Gilbert Hall of Science, I was wondering if anyone knew of any literature on the place.I have seen pictures and some narrative in the back of one of the Greenberg's books but I was wondering if there was anything more detailed and if there was a track plan. Also is there a video available?

Anyway, any pointers would be appreciated. I remembered my trips to New York when I was kid by visits to the Gilbert Hall of Science and once at Thanksgiving time to Macy's and Gimbles toy floors.
Took GG-1 headed passenger trains from North Philadelphia station up and remembered going to MofNH and walking by the IBM building with the computer inside behind the big glass windows. Hey computer security then was physical, (e.g. you needed a lot of space, an lot of power and a lot air to run all of those tubes and drums. Put it our in front of the customer to see.

Remember the most was the two visits to the Gilbert Hall of Science during the week. Went there twice on Saturdays but they were closed. Maybe it was summertime. Also remember eating a lot of grill cheese sandwiches since my parents where upset with the NY food prices (children of the depression and watched every nickle). But at least they bought me trains at Christmas time.

Regards,
Joe Haughney




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19272 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: uncataloged set 20188 question
I discovered that I has this set when I was beginning spring cleaning
and... there it was:) It is amazing on what yoy will forget that you have
bought

What I was wondering from the set experts out there is if the M5100 listed
among the accessories in the Greenberg set book is the transformer or for
some strange reason did the not supply a transformer for a set like this
(which seems unlikely)

it's a nice albeit spartan set
Group: S-Trains Message: 19273 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert Hall of Science
Hi Joe & All,
Try these two sites:

www.acghs.org/ www.acgilbert.org/ Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19275 From: jahoozdumm Date: 4/25/2002
Subject: Re: Repro split knuckle couplers
Tim...

The best repro knuckle couplers with split shanks (assuming that's
what you meant by "split knuckle couplers") that I've been able to
find I've gotten from Leventon's. It's been a few years since my last
order, but the couplers they sent me then were very well-formed,
almost indistinguishable from Gilbert AF. Only the lack of dirt and
scratches gives them away. You can check Leventon's at:

http://www.amerflyer.com/leventon/index.htm


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19276 From: af21115 Date: 4/26/2002
Subject: Re: uncataloged set 20188 question
Jeff, the M5100 would be the instruction booklet. Transformers in
later sets that had them had a number starting in 220XX. Most of the
Franklin Sets did come with one from the factory, if yours did it
would have been a basic number like 22004. They are very common and
inexpensive.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19277 From: Alex Date: 4/26/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert Hall of Science
Thanks for the memories Joe! When I was a kid my dad used to take me there
too.

Alex in Maine



-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Haughney [mailto:J.Haughney@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 10:57 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Gilbert Hall of Science


Have wonderful memories of Gilbert Hall of Science, I was wondering if
anyone knew of any literature on the place.I have seen pictures and some
narrative in the back of one of the Greenberg's books but I was wondering if
there was anything more detailed and if there was a track plan. Also is
there a video available?

Anyway, any pointers would be appreciated. I remembered my trips to New York
when I was kid by visits to the Gilbert Hall of Science and once at
Thanksgiving time to Macy's and Gimbles toy floors.
Took GG-1 headed passenger trains from North Philadelphia station up and
remembered going to MofNH and walking by the IBM building with the computer
inside behind the big glass windows. Hey computer security then was
physical, (e.g. you needed a lot of space, an lot of power and a lot air to
run all of those tubes and drums. Put it our in front of the customer to
see.

Remember the most was the two visits to the Gilbert Hall of Science during
the week. Went there twice on Saturdays but they were closed. Maybe it was
summertime. Also remember eating a lot of grill cheese sandwiches since my
parents where upset with the NY food prices (children of the depression and
watched every nickle). But at least they bought me trains at Christmas time.

Regards,
Joe Haughney




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Group: S-Trains Message: 19278 From: Ted Larson Date: 4/26/2002
Subject: virus?
A good way to avoid viruses (in addition to running up to date virus
protection) is to NOT use MS Outlook. Many viruses are written to
attack Outlook. Use some other e-mail software instead, such as
Netscape or Eudora.

=====
Ted Larson

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19279 From: yorke@gate.net Date: 4/26/2002
Subject: Virus Update
One (or more) of us caught the Klez virus.
It picks names from your addressbook.
see http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/02/04/26/020426hnklez.xml
The worm exploits a vulnerability in Microsoft Outlook and Outlook Express in an attempt to execute itself when you open or even preview the message in which it is contained.

So here is my request.
If you use Outlook and refuse to buy & update anti-virus software, please remove me from your mailing list.

I have gotten about 25 of these virus notes in the last 48 hours. They are about 130K in size and have strange but believeable subject lines.

Most seem to be comming from verizon.net, when I peel back the top layer. So if you use verizon net take a good look at your system.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19280 From: Don Thompson Date: 4/26/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] virus?
Dear Ted,
Another great way to avoid viruses is to use Macintosh computers with
Netscape for your e-mail.
Don

Ted Larson wrote:

> A good way to avoid viruses (in addition to running up to date virus
> protection) is to NOT use MS Outlook. Many viruses are written to
> attack Outlook. Use some other e-mail software instead, such as
> Netscape or Eudora.
>
> =====
> Ted Larson
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
> http://games.yahoo.com/
>
> To see or post Photos visit
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
> or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
> To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 19281 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/26/2002
Subject: CRANE & COAL LOADER
Thank You guys...They kits have been sold. Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19282 From: Scott Holm Date: 4/26/2002
Subject: Re: Virus Update
--- yorke@... wrote:
> The worm exploits a vulnerability in Microsoft Outlook and Outlook
> Express in an attempt to execute itself when you open or even preview
> the message in which it is contained.

This vulnerability is fixed by a patch that has been available at
Microsoft for over a year now:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/downloads/critical/q290108/

All users of Outlook should apply this fix immediately and if you then
refrain from also opening executable attachments you should be safe
until the next vulnerability is discovered.

If you don't put the patch on or continue to open attachments you will
be vulnerable regardless of whether your virus software is up to date.




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19283 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 4/26/2002
Subject: New SP engine
Hello everyone
I am pleased to announce the arrival of a new engine for SP fans.
After working with Ron Bashista on getting this new addition to the SP products,
I have in my hands the new Southern Pacific Lines Pacific engine made by American
Models. This new Pacific has the 'Gription' system as well as all black spoked
wheels and a silver front as SP did for high visability on many of its engines.
The numbers available are 2401 and 2408 which were in the first units purchased
by SP as coal burners. This is a beauty!!!!!!!!!!!
The pricing on these is $379.95 for the AC version with full sound and $329.95
for the version with limited sound in either scale or high rail. The DC versions
are $299.95 scale or high rail. As a bonus, I will be offering free shipping
and a letter of credit of $30 for each engine purchased during the month of
May. The credit is good only for merchandise purchased through Howard' S Trains
and is not offered by the manufacturor. Credits must be redeemed by 10-30-02.

An email picture of an SP Pacific similar to these can be sent via email on
request.
I will be showing this engine at the Flyer Fest West from 10:00 to 2:00 tomorrow
at the Executive Inn in Hayward for those in the area.
Please contact me off list for information or ordering.
Howard Sheffield
Howard' S Trains
1201 Hemingway Dr.
Roseville, Ca 95747
916-769-8362
916-773-4415 evenings and message.
_______________________________________________________________________
Free Domain Name Registration with Web Hosting at Lanset Communications.
56k Dialup, Web Design, and Colocation at http://www.lanset.net
Group: S-Trains Message: 19284 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/26/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, April 28, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19285 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/26/2002
Subject: Sound Button#6-5906 for sale & 5005wt set for sale
Hi Guys,
I have a 36-5906 like new sound activation button for $14.00
that includes shipping.
Now for the peach. I'll give you guys first shot before I E-BAY it.
I'm selling a 5005WT set. It comes with a 314AW in E cond as are all the
cars & the org. whistle control. It has the following cars 632 625 630 Was
made only in 1950 It comes with a transformer that needs a pointer & the
track 12 curved & 6 straight (not the org amt) the track has boxes. I might
have some boxes for the cars but not sure. It will be in the $800.00 range,
But will take offers. If No one comes close I will E-Bay it. It may seem high
but it is nice.
Steve Blackburn did service the AW tender for me & stated it was a very nice
working unit. Thank You Mike
PS I'm thinning out my trains for health reasons. I will also have a 5580H
The New Chief Passenger set 4713 red stripe 960 two 962 963 from 1955
a 20425 Keystone Set 21005 24003 24203 24603 from 1958
Also a Rocket set that includes a 21004
All these sets are at least E- or better Most being E Cond
Please contact me off list.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19286 From: jackress Date: 4/26/2002
Subject: Re: 759 Bell substitute replacement
OK. So I'm a little late, it's been a while. I haven't looked here
since the Ex-Mint farcus. When my dinger cracked I went looking
for something to use as a replacement and found that a 1-1/8" brass
freeze plug works very nicely. It's very thick, and I don't think it
will ever crack. I used a "DORMAN" brand part number P19C. I did mine
about 7 years ago, and it still works great.
Thanks for all the good entertainment on S-Scale Groups. If I don't
learn anything, at least I can get a chuckle from all you guys.
Jack
Group: S-Trains Message: 19287 From: Don Thompson Date: 4/27/2002
Subject: Re: DSL Sears house
The latest DSL shops kit arrived yesterday, The Sears House. David
Lull had called a few days before and told me he would be shipping his
latest limited edition kits and our allotment. What he did not tell me
is how nice this kit would look. The abundance of parts are all
exceptionally crisp and clean. The instructions are well documented
with any clear photographs. The kit even includes several different
colors of window curtains. Most of our kits are sold, but we do have
two left. The retail price is $89.95 plus shipping.
A photo as well as a description of the Sears House can be found on
DSL Shops web site at:

http://www.DSLshops.com/latestrun.htm

Don

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 19288 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 4/27/2002
Subject: more uncataloged 20188 questions.
Hello again,

The lowbudget Atlantic 21161 that pulls this set has NOV 1960 stamper in
the loco shell and it has a solid knuckle coupler. The cars that came with
this set are all pikemaster. If I recall the PM trucks came out in 1961
so... On the shelf cheap KC steamer with common PM cars for department
store/gas station/tire store premium?

Just wondering if the transformer that came with this set is reasonably
correct:)

There is no five digit number that I can find. It is a rectangular metal
box with a round Gilbert logo on top. Below the logo it says: American
Flyer Toy transformer NO. 16c199. it is a 60 cycle, 35 watts output, has a
16v var and base terminal and appears to have a wooden throttle control.

What is this transformer's number?

Now if there are any archivists out there. Anyone know how to strip off old
masking tape residue from brown cardboard AF train set box for the purpose
of semi-restoration

Jeff
Group: S-Trains Message: 19289 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 4/27/2002
Subject: L-Flyer/KC trucks for car hauler
Good morning:)

Anybody out there have any spare L-Flyer trucks.

I just finished modifing a Lionel open car hauler to more practical flyer
dimensions and all the spare trucks that I have are pikemaster.

Now I wish that I had taken some pictures, I owe someone an article on how
to convert one of there cars for flyer opperation. My first attempt is true
S scale and too long for standard flyer curves:( This one is about 1 and
1/2 boxcars long and the lower deck is level with an AF flatcar.

Ok, I'll settle for standard AF knuckle trucks too, just have to figure out
what size of rivit
Group: S-Trains Message: 19290 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 4/27/2002
Subject: Re: more uncataloged 20188 questions.
While there are products on the market to do this...I use Lighter
Fluid...squirt it on the tape...get an edge started...keep squirting as you
slowley work off the tape...I have restored several boxes this way..Bob
Conner.....NOW WHERE CAN I FIND A SMALL AMOUNT OF THE OLD WET AND STICK KIND
OF TAPE??????
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Tangeman" <jt12313@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 10:09 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] more uncataloged 20188 questions.


>
>
>
>
> Hello again,
>
> The lowbudget Atlantic 21161 that pulls this set has NOV 1960 stamper in
> the loco shell and it has a solid knuckle coupler. The cars that came with
> this set are all pikemaster. If I recall the PM trucks came out in 1961
> so... On the shelf cheap KC steamer with common PM cars for department
> store/gas station/tire store premium?
>
> Just wondering if the transformer that came with this set is reasonably
> correct:)
>
> There is no five digit number that I can find. It is a rectangular metal
> box with a round Gilbert logo on top. Below the logo it says: American
> Flyer Toy transformer NO. 16c199. it is a 60 cycle, 35 watts output, has a
> 16v var and base terminal and appears to have a wooden throttle control.
>
> What is this transformer's number?
>
> Now if there are any archivists out there. Anyone know how to strip off
old
> masking tape residue from brown cardboard AF train set box for the purpose
> of semi-restoration
>
> Jeff
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19291 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 4/27/2002
Subject: Re: more uncataloged 20188 questions.
In a message dated 4/27/02 10:26:04 AM, jt12313@... writes:

<< The lowbudget Atlantic 21161 that pulls this set has NOV 1960 stamper in
the loco shell and it has a solid knuckle coupler............ >>

Jeff,

PM made it out in the later part of 1960. The 20188 set did not include a
transformer. BTW, suggest that you buy a copy of Tuft's set book if you are
going to get into (re)assembling sets. It's only $15.

Hope this helps.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 19292 From: WNHOLCOMB@aol.com Date: 4/27/2002
Subject: Manoil 707 Colors
Can anyone provide any good paint color matches for any of the origional
Flyer colors used on the Manoil 707 car ?

Thanks,
Neil Holcomb


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19293 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/27/2002
Subject: Computer Lockups Revisited
Hi,

A couple weeks back there were postings about computers locking up when on the internet. Mine was one. I tried all the advise people on this list gave. None of it solved the problem, although I do thank everyone, as it was educational and I was able to at least clean out some unwanted files. I solved the problem by upgrading my 128 megs ram to 192 megs. I plan a further upgrade to 256 megs. The upgrade was simple. You may want to try this if you are still having lock-up problems.

Regards,
Tim



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19294 From: Robert Wight Date: 4/27/2002
Subject: Lionel sawmill repair
My Lionel sawmill stripped the gear that seems to afflect most. First I sent
lionel a e-mail for a postage tag for the sawmill. About a week later I got
in the mail a letter and the tag to mail it to them for repair. The
interesting thing is that they said I had to have the receipt for the unit
even though it has been out for less then a year. Well, I never keep those
things. But in the letter it said they promised it would be returned within
16 weeks or some time line like that. I contacted them my e-mail and told
them that since that this is clearly a manufactures flaw and it realy should
be on recall. Just save us both time and postage and mail me a couple of the
gears and ill do it myself because im certain it is going to strip again.
They e-mailed me back and said that was fine but they have run out of the
gears and when they get another shipment they will mail them out. A few
weeks went by and they mailed me four gears no charge. I replaced the gear
in less then an hour. I thought that was good service. The way im going to
avoid anymore stripped gears, is by putting it on its own transformer set at
half throttle. hopefully it will stall before it strips when there is a jam.
but I have three more gears for the future, so I should be set. Also it is
very simple to do the job yourself.
Bob Wight


Check Out My American Flyer Trains
http://www.boomspeed.com/bobgaylord/


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19295 From: John L. Date: 4/27/2002
Subject: Knuckle Coupler Problems.
Is there a cure or some fixes for knuckle couplers that come apart for
no aparant reason as the train goes along? It can be quite annoying.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19296 From: bassflyer Date: 4/27/2002
Subject: Re: New SP engine
I have returned from the Flyer Fest West, and have posted a pic of
Howard with the new AM Southern Pacific loco at the S-Trains site,
click on photos and look for the Rick Evans folder.
I also got to see it pull about 22-23 pieces of mixed rolling
stock, (SHS, Flyer, maybe some AM),...and it sure seemed to pull nice.
I had a great time meeting Howard, along with David Dewey and his
wife Linda. Finally got to meet someone from our list and chat!! And
it only took a total of six hours and 400 miles to do it!! Well worth
it though! Oh,...and I did save shipping on a AM SP wooden caboose
that I bought from Howard! HAH!!

Rick "Good to be home" Evans.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19297 From: Scott Holm Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Re: Knuckle Coupler Problems.
--- "John L." <larry.asp@...> wrote:
> Is there a cure or some fixes for knuckle couplers that come apart
> for no aparant reason as the train goes along?

This is usually a vibration caused by the truck being crooked that
causes the weight to ride up slowly until it opens. Replacing the
coupler doesn't usually fix it. Set the car on a flat surface and see
if all four wheels touch the surface equally and also look from the end
and see if the wheels are lined up. If not, bend until everything is
square.

I once fixed a Franklin coach of this problem by slamming it down on
the table a couple of times. This must have changed the vibration
pattern.

If nothing works and it still does it, a short piece of solid wire with
black insulation could be wound around the weight shaft to keep it from
riding up. This is a little better than permanently glueing the coupler closed.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19298 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Re: New SP engine
Rick sez:
>I had a great time meeting Howard, along with David Dewey.

Yeah, yeah . . . tell us about the shirt!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19299 From: lou342ac Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: AM/S-Helper Switches
For those who use American Models or S-Helper switches. Do you have
any problems with AF engines with collector shoes (Alco's, Baldwin's
or Tenders) getting caught or jammimg in the open frog of these
switches? I had this problem with the new Gargraves switches and
abandon their use. I'm in the process of doing a new layout and would
like to do it with new track and switches. Any feedback will be
appreciated. Thanks
Group: S-Trains Message: 19300 From: Damian Brindell Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Re: Knuckle Coupler Problems.
Also check for any objects between the rails that could be giving a nudge to
the coupler weight. Flyer re-railers cause that sometimes.
Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...>
To: "s-trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 7:39 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Knuckle Coupler Problems.


> --- "John L." <larry.asp@...> wrote:
> > Is there a cure or some fixes for knuckle couplers that come apart
> > for no aparant reason as the train goes along?
>
> This is usually a vibration caused by the truck being crooked that
> causes the weight to ride up slowly until it opens. Replacing the
> coupler doesn't usually fix it. Set the car on a flat surface and see
> if all four wheels touch the surface equally and also look from the end
> and see if the wheels are lined up. If not, bend until everything is
> square.
>
> I once fixed a Franklin coach of this problem by slamming it down on
> the table a couple of times. This must have changed the vibration
> pattern.
>
> If nothing works and it still does it, a short piece of solid wire with
> black insulation could be wound around the weight shaft to keep it from
> riding up. This is a little better than permanently glueing the coupler
closed.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
> http://health.yahoo.com
>
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19301 From: bassflyer Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Re: New SP engine
--- In S-Trains@y..., Chris Zizzo <busyboy@o...> wrote:
> Rick sez:
> >I had a great time meeting Howard, along with David Dewey.
>
> Yeah, yeah . . . tell us about the shirt!
>
> Chris Zizzo


Well,...let's put it this way,...no volume control was
needed,...David had a pretty tame shirt on,...I left mine hanging in
the truck, and for sure would have been the louder of the two!! I
didn't want to steal David's glory though!! :-)

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19302 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel sawmill repair
Bob,
I had the same problem and Lionel did return the unit completely rebuilt. It
has been running on my show layout ever since with no problems.
A couple of other things you may check for are the boards and the tension of
the string. David Dewey was working with me on the layout and used his while
mine was in the shop for a while. He found that adjusting the string helped
his operate better. Maybe David will post more info on that subject. I found
that some of the boards were not exactly cut thin enough at one end and sanded
them to slide out the slot better. Make sure they are completely smooth. Also
eleminated the bad ones.
Howard

Bob wrote:>My Lionel sawmill stripped the gear that seems to afflect most.
_______________________________________________________________________
Free Domain Name Registration with Web Hosting at Lanset Communications.
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19303 From: Robert E. Yablonski Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1432, Handcar
I would like a few inputs on the AF hadcar. I purchased a friends
collection that included a handcar, one side was E+ the other side had a
broken decal. The thing would not run at all.

I took it apart and was able to make it run by shimming the axle with
various thickness brass. It still runs poorly. Anyone out there know how
to properly repair these buggers.

Robert E. Yablonski
Group: S-Trains Message: 19304 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: handcars
Robert: I covered the rehabilitation of the AF handcars in the Jan-Feb '97
S Gaugian Roundhouse column.

The AF handcars were cheap pieces of crap. Even mint and near mint (don't
start!!!) handcars are noisy. The chassises are extremely soft. The axle
bearing holes and armature bearing surfaces quickly wear out so the gears
don't mesh properly. Then, the fields and armatures struggle against this
and overheat, often burning out. Many of the rubber figures have become
too stiff, also overstraining the motor. Other things can go wrong too,
but these are the main players.

My strategy with the handcars is to rebush the geared axle holes with
bronze bushings and correct the armature bearing wear with small pieces of
brass shim stock. Precision is not needed and the rebushing can be done
with hand tools. Since most handcars are badly brutalized, I usually get
about 3 good handcars out of 4 or 5 carcasses. I replace stiff figures
with repros.

Incidentally, Bob Hannon's wonderful S Gauge Reference manual lists the
correct resistance of the armature(between 2 plates) as 3.1-3.2 ohms and
the field as 3.1-3.3 ohms. If the resistance is significantly lower than
that, the part is probably toasted and should be replaced/rewound.

The flimsy reversing switch in the 742 reversing handcar is often broken
but it is easy to fix and repros are available. That's in the article too.

Proper lubrication is very important. You have to remove the body to get
at all the places that need oil. That's another reason why so many are
found badly worn.

Another thing that adds to the pleasure of operating the handcar is to
illuminate the lanterns. That is described in the Mar-Apr '98 S Gaugian
Roundhouse. Basically, you use 2 very small (Radio Shack # 272-1092) 12 v
bulbs wired in series. It looks great.

I have some axle bushings available at $1 each plus postage for those who
need them. Contact me off list for details. This is the only item I have
ever sold and I offer them as a service to my Flyer friends, not as a path
to riches.

Getting a handcar to run well is a lot of work; sometimes it takes several
attempts, and some are too far gone to fix. But it is worth the trouble.
People notice and enjoy them as they do the Flyer accessories. I like to
park all my trains in sidings and let about half a dozen handcars run wild
all over the layout as a change of pace.

There has been talk of offering a replacement bottom for the handcar. THis
might not be a bad idea, but I would miss the coffee grinder noise. I've
gotten used to it!

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19305 From: Tim Brown Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Aircraft Beacon Revisited
Hi,

A few weeks back, there was a discussion string on the aircraft beacons and how to get the top rotating. I did all the tinkering with only a tiny bit of success. Recently the dimpled bulb burned out and I bought a new one from Portlines. I am happy to report that it must burn hotter, 'cuz the beacon top now turns. The bulbs are cheap enuf, so don't take my word, try one and see!

Regards,
Tim



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19306 From: kathy/tom Gerbasi Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: ?s re:budd cars and SHS "house cars"
I'm stumped. Please, some of you engineering types, tell me what I don't understand.

1st question: How do the trucks on the American Models Budd cars pick up current? It looks like all the wheels pick up current, but I can't envision the path the current takes, nor how the trucks don't short out. I think the sideframes must be electrically isolated from one side to the other. I just don't get it. If anybody can answer this question for me. please assume I am a "techno-idiot" and be very basic.

2nd question: How does some one disassemble one of the S Helper Service "House cars" (i.e. boxcar, stockcar, reefer)? I have been tempted to install onboard sounds in the cattle cars, and repaint some of the reefers for local industries on my layout, but I can't figure how to disassemble them. I am sure I am missing something simple, but I just can't get them apart. Again, assume that I am not too bright when you try ti explain this to me.

Tom Gerbasi


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19307 From: Dick Kuepper Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Ertl Collectibles 1/64 Semi & Tractors
The Parade magazine that comes with our Sunday paper had an add for a 1:64 scale 1960 Mack B-61 cab with a flatbed trailer hauling 2 International Harvester Model 460 Farmall tractors. Priced at $39.95 +4.95 shipping - a little steep but a great looker. It's being sold by an outfit called Hamilton Authenticated.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19308 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, April 28, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19309 From: Lance McCold Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Garden S
Denny,

I had a similar idea a few years back. I even bought the stainless steel Gargraves flex track. Unfortunately, life got in the way of my dream. I recently sold the tack. I still think it is a good idea.

One of the holdups was that the track was the kind with wooden ties. I was trying to figure out how to treat the ties to keep them from rotting in a couple seasons. Quite plausible in east Tennessee. Since then Gargraves has come out with the plastic ties which, I think, makes the idea even more plausible.

The thing that doomed my garden S-gauge was that my wife bought me a LGB train set. As a result, G-gauge became the outdoor gauge.

I have learned a few things exploring G-gauge. First LGB makes a conductive (graphite) grease that they recommend you put in the rial joiners before you put the track together. I find that it really works. If I were putting out a S-gauge layout I would use the conductive grease in the rail joiners.

The other thing that is different about outdoor model railroading it that you need to think about rail bed--just like the real railroads. The ground may look level-but it is pretty uneven as S-scale. Actually the track is so stiff compared to the weight of the S-scale trains that it may not be too critical, but check that your heavy engine does not roll off the track on a turn where the ground does not support the track well.

Before leaving the track out doors in the sun a long time, you might want to paint the ties. Not all plastics are UV resistant. Most plastics will crumble after a time in the sun.
My last suggestion is to try it! Put out something temporary to get an idea of what works and what does not. Then, report back to the group. Yours is a interesting and worthwhile experiment.

Lance McCold
Knoxville, Tennessee

>Message: 14
> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:51:16 -0000
> From: "wintermutedm" <dmerritt@...>
>Subject: Garden S
>
>Hi everyone. I have not posted to this list yet, but have been
>reading and gleaming information from it for several months now. I
>finally have a question.
>
>Has anyone here created an S-Gauge garden railroad? I noticed that
>Gargraves produces stainless-steel track, supposedly for "indoor-
>outdoor" use.... so I am guessing this might be possible. I finally
>bought my first house (wow! a backyard and space for an indoor
>layout: bit bigger than a 2-bedroom apartment). I think a simple loop-
>type of layout around the small (4X6') pond in the backyard would be
>really cool, but have no idea how to go about it.
>
>I mostly run old ACG American Flyer trains. I doubt that the garden-
>railroad would need any accessories, so AC or DC would probably be ok
>(though I don't know which would be better... I use AC indoors). I
>have a GFI power source outside for the pond, and would probably
>power the trains from there.
>
>Anyway, I have never heard of anyone doing a garden layout in S-
>gauge... but hey, why not? Any input would be appreciated!
>
>Thanks all!
>
>-Denny Merritt
Group: S-Trains Message: 19310 From: TED R LARSON Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: S Quality !
The February 2002 Mainline Modeler "Scuttlebutt" column comments on
recent offerings from AM and SHS. The reviews specifically discuss the
high quality of the molded detail of the AM E8 and the SHS F7.

Ted Larson
Newton's third law of technology:
For every benefit, there is an equal and opposite inconvenience.


________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19311 From: Don Thompson Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: ?s re:budd cars and SHS "house cars"
Dear Tom,
The AM Budd cars collect current just like our caboose. That is a plastic (ABS?) bolster and Zamac sideframes. The wheels are split insulated, so the axles is non insulated only to the adjacent wheel, just like our caboose.
Re: disassembly of our house cars - Hammer? No, in all seriousness, on the inside of the body, about 1/4 of the way from the end are two slots for tabs on the roof. Don't forget to detach the end roof walk supports first. When I received the first engineering sample of our 2 bay PS-2, the chassis came loose from the body. Ever since then, they have solvent glued all of the tab joins. Sorry.
Good luck,
Don

kathy/tom Gerbasi wrote:

> I'm stumped. Please, some of you engineering types, tell me what I don't understand.
>
> 1st question: How do the trucks on the American Models Budd cars pick up current? It looks like all the wheels pick up current, but I can't envision the path the current takes, nor how the trucks don't short out. I think the sideframes must be electrically isolated from one side to the other. I just don't get it. If anybody can answer this question for me. please assume I am a "techno-idiot" and be very basic.
>
> 2nd question: How does some one disassemble one of the S Helper Service "House cars" (i.e. boxcar, stockcar, reefer)? I have been tempted to install onboard sounds in the cattle cars, and repaint some of the reefers for local industries on my layout, but I can't figure how to disassemble them. I am sure I am missing something simple, but I just can't get them apart. Again, assume that I am not too bright when you try ti explain this to me.
>
> Tom Gerbasi

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 19312 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Circus Car #2
Joe's Train Repair is pleased to announce the release
of its second car in its series of add-on circus cars
for the American Flyer Circus Train. This car is the
#24585 World's Greatest Show Operating Twin
Searchlight Car. Cost is $49.95 plus $5 shipping and
handling.

For a picture and ordering information, please go to:

home.nc.rr.com/joestrainrepair/index.com

Joe

=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19313 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Address Correction
To see the Circus Cars from Joe's Train Repair, be
sure to use "http:" before the address. It should be:

http://home.nc.rr.com/joestrainrepair/index.htm

Thanks,
Joe

=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19314 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Re: AM/S-Helper Switches
I use SHS switches on my Portable Christmas layout and have had problems with
anything that is a flyer engine. The engines seem to be to heavy and put a
lot of wear on them. The longer engines, hudson and northern tend to derail
even at slower speeds. My suggestion would be to use the AF switches with the
S-helper track. The switches work great with S-helper engines though!!!

CHRIS THE TRAINNUT


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19315 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Correct Address
That address for the second circus car should be:

http:/home.nc.rr.com/joestrainrepair/index.htm

Sorry.

=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19316 From: David Dewey Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Re: New SP engine--The SHIRT! & Flyer Fest West
Hi all,
Yeah, had a great time at the fest, and meeting Rick, although he didn't
bring me any BBQ chicken!
It was rather cool this weekend, so I had to leave my really LOUD shirt
in the suitcase and wear a somewhat warmer, but authentic, Hawaiian
shirt--you know the ones that they sew inside out, so the colors are
somewhat muted. Rick took pics, so the evidence should be there!
Now many of you heard I was going to pick up a milling machine (for
doing diesel repairs--see, it is AF related!) Sunday. Well, got to the motel
room Sat. night and the guy left a message, "Sold the mill this AM." Hmm, so
much for a verbal deal. What's worse, I get home and he has a phone message
telling me what a great price he was offered. Hmm, sounds like the price I
was going to offer him once I'd inspected the mill and tooling (he threw the
tooling in on the other deal). However, I still have my order in on the
smaller mill from HF that Steve Blackburn led me too, so not to worry, I
just don't get to get the hunking big mill.
And now I'd better read my mail, gloat over the great deals I got at the
Fest, and oh yeah, start assembling a "new" computer that I picked up on the
way home (hey, was so disappointed in the mill that we stopped in Fry's in
Sacramento. and fell under the spell of Kim, the salesperson in the CPU &
stuff department. Oh well. . . .(And Linda was even there to keep me under
control!! Hmm,)
Group: S-Trains Message: 19317 From: David Dewey Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel sawmill repair
I addition to Howard's info. Yes, run it at a slower setting, but keep an
eye on it, you can still strip the gears. Permanent solution?? Get a Brass
gear--hey Steve B. weren't you going to have some made?.
My sawmill came with "modern" lumber--knots and twists. I have an original,
and that lumber is nice and close-grained, and SMOOOTH. I have sanded and
waxed the modern boards, as well as made some new ones from some basswood I
got at the local Hobby Town store.
The other trick we do is to use an uncoupler button that you have to
hold down to run the mill, then you can let go quickly if things go wrong.
BTW, my original ACG mill came with just a push button.
The MTH mill has a clutch in it, and the mill makes horrid noises and
bounces the lift cart when it jams!
Oh, the string. I had to lengthen mine a bit. If it is adjusted just
right, the "rail" the lifting crane rides on will just wiggle a little bit
when the crane reaches the top. If the "rail" lifts up noticeably, then the
string is too short. Of course, if you get it too long, the logs won't dump!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19318 From: The Reis's Date: 4/28/2002
Subject: American Models GG 1! for sale
I have an an American Models GG1 for sale. This unit is the Green 5 stripe
with number 4920 on it. High Rail version.

It looks and runs as new from the factory. It still has the couplers sealed
in the little plastic bag as new.

I plan to E-bay it but will hold off till later in the week if someone here
wants it for the original AM price of $310 plus shipping.

Thanks for looking"


Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa.

_________________________________________________

PLEASE NOTE THE NEW EMAIL ADDRESS ! !

finnhill@...

The gte / verizon account is now closed.
_________________________________________________


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19319 From: Alex Date: 4/29/2002
Subject: Re: handcars
Tom, I know your handcar note was a reiteration of material you previously
described, but I enjoyed the heck out of reading it anyway!

Many thanks.

== Alex in Maine
Group: S-Trains Message: 19320 From: Scott Holm Date: 4/29/2002
Subject: Lionel 182 crane armature update
I told the story of my Lionel 182 crane armature that was virtually
destroyed by over-oiling (probably WD-40.) Got some good suggestions
from Tom Jarcho, which are going to work out. I tried searching for a
replacement armature at the train show, but the guys that are usually
there with Lionel motor parts weren't there (York?)

I connected the transformer leads directly to the commutators, turning
the transformer up until the shorted areas between the plates in the
bakelite started to light up. I carved these out with a knife until no
more shorts occurred; one was right near the shaft. Also soaked it in
solvent to remove whatever oil was still left on the surfaces. When I
measured the resistance between the plates, two of the plates were 1.9
Ohms from each other and the other two readings were about 9 Ohms. The
reason for this was identified as bad solder joints. I guess the heat
must have melted the solder off. I soldered them and tried the armature
out and it works great in both directions. Before I put the whole thing
back together I'm going to fill in the holes with epoxy, to keep it
from falling apart.

Thanks to Tom for the advice and thanks also to Bob Hannon for the
information about the problems with WD-40 on armatures and a possible
source for replacements.


__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19321 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 4/29/2002
Subject: Sawmill gear
In a message dated 4/29/02 8:09:22 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> I addition to Howard's info. Yes, run it at a slower setting, but keep an
> eye on it, you can still strip the gears. Permanent solution?? Get a Brass
> gear--hey Steve B. weren't you going to have some made?.
>

Not a problem. Still waiting for someone to send us a gear to reproduce. I
don't own a Lyingwell sawmill. Can't make what we can't see...
"S"teve & "S"am


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19322 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/29/2002
Subject: SMOKE FLUID
For those that are interested my web site fir smoke fluid is up & running.
1/64th Diecast cars will be added the middle of May. Mike
www.anormal1.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19323 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 4/29/2002
Subject: Correct URL
Due to a typo in the web address, many of you were
unable to locate the pictures of the add-on cars for
the Gilbert American Flyer Circus Train. The correct
URL is:

http://home.nc.rr.com/joestrainrepair/index.htm

Sorry,
Joe

=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19324 From: markdkoenig Date: 4/29/2002
Subject: BNSF Prototype pics
For those interested in diesel locomotives, I was driving by BNSF's
NE Minneapolis yard today and saw over one hundred locomotives. They
were all lined up in the southern part of the yard. I just happened
to have my digital camera with me so I took a few shots. They are
posted in the "Photos" section if you're interested. They are named
BN Yard #1, #2, and #3.

"S"incerely,

Mark Koenig
Roseville, MN
Group: S-Trains Message: 19325 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 4/29/2002
Subject: DAYLIGHT SET
Anyone looking for a Daylight set ? check E-Bay # 1727264307 I have nothing
to do with this but thought it might appeal to someone at $435.00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19326 From: hcopter52 Date: 4/30/2002
Subject: AF Circus animals
Hi All. Can anyone tell me what animals were included in the cages of
the American Flyer Circus train set. How many cars were there that
had these trailers and cages as loads? Thanks for all your help. You
folks know everything,John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19327 From: Rick Evans Date: 4/30/2002
Subject: "Golly!! That rubber road bed is swell!"
Finally got a few AF gray curved roadbed pieces,..actually 12,..just what
I needed for my little Spring layout. (like I said, little, only 14 pieces
of track!) I had quite a few gray straights, but no curves,...
prices always got to high for me on ebay, but I did get a deal on these
12 pieces off ebay.

The roadbed really cut down the noise level,...only noise comes from
two pieces of roadbed where the rubber is cracked and missing some
little pieces,...and the ties are hitting
the board somewhat I guess. I can hear the difference when the loco
passes these two pieces! I'll just stick a little somethin' under these.

This is my first time using any roadbed. The big plus is that the layout
sure looks better with roadbed.

Rick.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19328 From: joshseltzer Date: 4/30/2002
Subject: Last Day for NASG 2002 Convention Early Bird Rate
Today, April 30, 2002 is the last day for the "Early Bird Rate"
convention registration. After today the rate increases by $10.00.
So if you have not done so get that registration in the mail so it is
postmarked by April 30, 2002.

For details and forms see our website at www.cvsga.org.

Josh Seltzer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19329 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/30/2002
Subject: Doug Peck's email address
Could someone please send me Doug Peck's NEW email address? My computer
seems to have eaten it.
Thanks.
Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19330 From: erielackawanna76 Date: 4/30/2002
Subject: New Products
I've developed two new electronic circuits, The Boss and The Big Shot
for S train layouts. See the descriptions at:

http://www.geocities.com/erielackawanna76/ErieSignalCompany.html

John
Group: S-Trains Message: 19331 From: erierailroad@aol.com Date: 4/30/2002
Subject: New Products .....The Big Shot
Hi John,

The big shot looks very interesting. Could you tell me how hard it is to wire
up? Does it include everything or are other components required for usage?

Whats your mailing address?

thanks,
Jack Bartman



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19332 From: af21115 Date: 4/30/2002
Subject: Re: AF Circus animals
Ok, here goes....

Pelican
Gorilla
Male Lion
Female Lion
Rhino
Zebra
Camel

The cages ONLY came on the 643 Circus Flats which came in two colors,
Red & Yellow, and made of Die Cast Metal or Plaxton Pressed Wood
Material.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19333 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 4/30/2002
Subject: AF Circus Animals
Whoa! That's a total of 7 animals! How was this menagerie supposed to fit
into four cages???

I prefer animal crackers. At least you can eat them.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19334 From: ironhors@swbell.net Date: 4/30/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer in Ohio????
mlmarmer wrote:

> Hi Chris,
>
> Sorry to hear about the closing of the shop in Trader's world. It was about
> 1992, when we visited the area to see a good friend in Cincinnati, reason
> for stopping in Columbus, to visit the Blue Caboose.
>
> But being a huge flea market, like that, since you have been there before,
> you never know what may be sitting at one of the vendors. A great place to
> visit, if anyone on the list is passing by and have the time.
>
> Good searching in Ohio,
>
> Mike
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Would greatly appreciate your updated info on Columbus area; I will be there within
several months. I understand Blue Caboose no longer handles S, and it may have
something to do with they asked the S club to move out their layout from the 2nd
floor, then apparently failed to get the planned-for tenant; Al Evans should be a big
help. DJE-KCMO
Group: S-Trains Message: 19335 From: jahoozdumm Date: 4/30/2002
Subject: Re: BNSF Prototype pics
Many thanx for the pix, Mark. Sure is good to see so many blue and
yellow warbonnets that still say "Santa Fe."


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19336 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 5/1/2002
Subject: Re: AF Circus Animals
They were mixed from time to time....we also have at least 7 coupler
styles....how come only 2 per car? Bob Conner
----- Original Message -----
From: <jarcho@...>
To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 10:37 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] AF Circus Animals


> Whoa! That's a total of 7 animals! How was this menagerie supposed to
fit
> into four cages???
>
> I prefer animal crackers. At least you can eat them.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19337 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/1/2002
Subject: Re: AF Circus Animals
Well, as soon as I get all the animals I can stop looking.Thanks to
all for the input. Now all we need to know is how they choose those
particular ones! Thanks again,John.









--- In S-Trains@y..., "ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT"
<rcon7@b...> wrote:
> They were mixed from time to time....we also have at least 7
coupler
> styles....how come only 2 per car? Bob Conner
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <jarcho@r...>
> To: <S-trains@y...>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 10:37 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] AF Circus Animals
>
>
> > Whoa! That's a total of 7 animals! How was this menagerie
supposed to
> fit
> > into four cages???
> >
> > I prefer animal crackers. At least you can eat them.
> >
> > Tom Jarcho
> >
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
Group: S-Trains Message: 19338 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/1/2002
Subject: EBAY Items
Say, were these buildings really made by ACG? Item #'s 1727601136 and
601137. Just curious. They are not listed in my book. Thanks,John.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19339 From: trzp1800 Date: 5/1/2002
Subject: Air Chime Whistle tube?
Hi:
I need the vibrator tube for the "Air Chime Whistle" controller. This
goes with a 1954 "Rocket" diesel engine unit. I took my tube apart to
try and repair it and it seems to be fused together. A lot of scorch
marks on the metal base of the vibrator inside the tube and most of
the foam insulation around the base was "heat modified". Also, the
spring on the red button had melted itself into the bottom of the
button. Fixed the base and button but haven't a clue on the vibrator
tube. Does anyone know a source for these or know of a good set of
instructions for how to rehab one?

Thanks,
Ted
Group: S-Trains Message: 19340 From: The Reis's Date: 5/1/2002
Subject: virus emails ???
Is anyone else getting emails with virus's attached ???

I have gotten 4 or 5 now. Today's was from:
S-trains(s-trains@yahoogroups.com) without a to:
and a title line of "meeting notice". the email was blank. Norton grabbed
it and quarantined the virus which was the w32.Klez.gen@mm virus. I have
not gone to the norton website to see if they have any details on this
virus. I have 4 quarantined in norton since the 27th. Just wondering, am I
the only one getting these? I did a full scan on my computer Monday eve and
it is clean.

Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa.
Gotta do something during the Baseball rain delays (Mariners at Chicago)

_________________________________________________

PLEASE NOTE THE NEW EMAIL ADDRESS ! !

finnhill@...

The gte / verizon account is now closed.
_________________________________________________


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19341 From: Don Thompson Date: 5/1/2002
Subject: Re: virus emails ???
Dear Eric,
I have been getting a bunch of e-mail just like that. Either there is no
subject, or no body or just a few lines about gifts or games. I use Netscape so
when I view the source, I see a lot of machine language as a blind attachment. All
are either .exe or .bat files that my Mac has no clue what to do with unless I am in
Virtual PC.
Don

The Reis's wrote:

> Is anyone else getting emails with virus's attached ???
>
> I have gotten 4 or 5 now. Today's was from:
> S-trains(s-trains@yahoogroups.com) without a to:
> and a title line of "meeting notice". the email was blank. Norton grabbed
> it and quarantined the virus which was the w32.Klez.gen@mm virus. I have
> not gone to the norton website to see if they have any details on this
> virus. I have 4 quarantined in norton since the 27th. Just wondering, am I
> the only one getting these? I did a full scan on my computer Monday eve and
> it is clean.
>
> Eric Reis
> Kenmore, Wa.
> Gotta do something during the Baseball rain delays (Mariners at Chicago)
>
> _________________________________________________
>
> PLEASE NOTE THE NEW EMAIL ADDRESS ! !
>
> finnhill@...

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 19342 From: Don Thompson Date: 5/1/2002
Subject: Re: SHS Blatant Commercialism
The container came in today with the next batch of reefers. We now
have all but the Mexene Chili Powder car and the Frisco three car set of
40' steel rebuilt boxcars. We expect them next month.
We also received the Kahn's Spree cars (Yes, we will be there), NKP
2002 NASG Convention Cars (we will be here too), the Bristol rebuilt
boxcars, Doug Peck's NH reefer and John Huster's silver roofed B&O
Timesaver boxcar.
Yesterday, the 2nd generation engineering sample of our composite
hopper arrived. The 3rd generation of our enhance #3 switch also
arrived.
Don

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, and Swift 3 car reefer sets are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 19343 From: Chuck Smith Date: 5/1/2002
Subject: Re: virus emails ???
I installed an updated McAfee virus scanner and it found the w32.Klez
virus that I also had gotten some time before and didn't know it. Seems
to be OK now, but I can't tell how long ago it happened.

The Reis's wrote:
>
> Is anyone else getting emails with virus's attached ???
>
> I have gotten 4 or 5 now. Today's was from:
> S-trains(s-trains@yahoogroups.com) without a to:
> and a title line of "meeting notice". the email was blank. Norton grabbed
> it and quarantined the virus which was the w32.Klez.gen@mm virus. I have
> not gone to the norton website to see if they have any details on this
> virus. I have 4 quarantined in norton since the 27th. Just wondering, am I
> the only one getting these? I did a full scan on my computer Monday eve and
> it is clean.
>
> Eric Reis
> Kenmore, Wa.
> Gotta do something during the Baseball rain delays (Mariners at Chicago)
>
> _________________________________________________
>
> PLEASE NOTE THE NEW EMAIL ADDRESS ! !
>
> finnhill@...
>
> The gte / verizon account is now closed.
> _________________________________________________
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 19344 From: The Reis's Date: 5/1/2002
Subject: virus emails ??? Update
Thanks Alex and others:

Many have been getting these

I did go to Norton's and it is an interesting virus. What it does when it
infects your computer is send out emails to people on your address list. The
interesting part is that it picks other people from your list to put in the
from column. So when computer #1 is infected, it sends one of these emails
to computer #2 and says it is from computer #3. #2 goes after #3, #3 checks
and finds his computer is clean of course. Nobody finds #1 without some
real detective work.

Like I said, Norton found the virus on the incoming email and stopped it
cold. Part of the problem is an MS-Outlook / IE bug that can let this happen
which I think was stated last week but Norton also routes you to. I had this
in also

What this means is that someone on this list is corrupted (probably more
than one) and may not know it. Another reason to have Norton or McAfee
Anti-Virus. You shouldn't have to pay more than about $25 with all the
sales and rebates. I think The full Norton Internet security which includes
Anti-virus was only $34 after rebate. I have seen both cheaper.

Thanks for listening

Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa.
(oops the is back on again)



-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Sibbald [mailto:innotron@...]
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:58 PM
To: The Reis's; Don Thompson
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] virus emails ???


Hi,
Go to Norton's website and download the removal tool for this virus. It is
on the
first page you pull up.
Alex(innotron)

The Reis's wrote:

> Is anyone else getting emails with virus's attached ???
>
> I have gotten 4 or 5 now. Today's was from:
> S-trains(s-trains@yahoogroups.com) without a to:
> and a title line of "meeting notice". the email was blank. Norton
grabbed
> it and quarantined the virus which was the w32.Klez.gen@mm virus. I have
> not gone to the norton website to see if they have any details on this
> virus. I have 4 quarantined in norton since the 27th. Just wondering, am
I
> the only one getting these? I did a full scan on my computer Monday eve
and
> it is clean.
>
> Eric Reis
> Kenmore, Wa.
> Gotta do something during the Baseball rain delays (Mariners at Chicago)
>
> _________________________________________________
>
> PLEASE NOTE THE NEW EMAIL ADDRESS ! !
>
> finnhill@...
>
> The gte / verizon account is now closed.
> _________________________________________________
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19345 From: notcoldenough Date: 5/1/2002
Subject: Cats & trains
Dinah, our "G scale" cat, is simply out of proportion to the HO
layout (see link). Wonder if I could get by with a S scale puddy?

http://www.geocities.com/notcoldenough/GscaleCat.jpg

In our house, cats are a no-no on the HO layout - way too fragile.
We tolerate them on the Flyer layout - the equipment is so robust
it's almost cat proof. Put a new Marx tunnel on the layout the other
day & of course within 1 minute a cat had to check it out & crawl
through! They tend to scatter when the layout is fired up. The
least favorite accessory (from the cats perspective) is the noisy 759
Danger Bell! Action cars aren't real popular with them either. So
far, no cat has taken a "mouse" ( or cow) from the cattle loader.

Any one else have any cat stories to share?

John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 19346 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Re: Cats & trains
John wrote:

>In our house, cats are a no-no on the HO layout - way too fragile.
>We tolerate them on the Flyer layout - the equipment is so robust
>it's almost cat proof.

The "almost" is critical, too!

Back in the dark, pre-permanent layout days of the C+D System, we had
an 18-year-old cat that was becoming incontinent, though we didn't
know it. We found out when I started to take apart the sectional AF
track we had been running on the floor around the Christmas tree. I
found a section or two of VERY rusty track. "How did it get so
rusty?" I wondered. It was completely clean when I laid it down. Then
I saw the stains in the white sheet, and the revelation fell on me.
We had seen the cat prowling around the loop of track a day or so
before, trying to sneak up on the 303 Atlantic that had been
arrogantly chuffing at her. Apparently, she had relieved herself on
the "main line" when we weren't looking. Whether it was an accident,
or she had done it in protest, I dunno, but the cat was banned from
the house after that.


>Put a new Marx tunnel on the layout the other day & of course within
>1 minute a cat had to check it out & crawl through!

Same happens here. A tunnel portal must indicate "Mousehole!" to
their furry little brains.


>They tend to scatter when the layout is fired up.

We had one orange tabby (not the old cat above) that got to "break
in" our permanent Christmas layout. We have pix of him stalking a
Royal Blue, which seemed to be one of his favorite amusements when he
wasn't using the ice skating pond for a catbed. Thankfully, our
current feline inhabitant is pretty much indifferent to the Christmas
layout.


>The least favorite accessory (from the cats perspective) is the
>noisy 759 Danger Bell! Action cars aren't real popular with them
>either.

None of our cats has EVER been able to tolerate any buzzing
accessory. Empty a dump car, lower the water tank spout, "BZZZZZT!"
One cat away, skyward!


>So far, no cat has taken a "mouse" ( or cow) from the cattle loader.

Be sure to keep a frequent count!


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19347 From: Tom Pennington Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Re: Cats & trains
When ever my cat gets to close to the layout while in operation, a simple
press of the uncoupler button is enough to unnerve her and send her scurrying
away and seek shelter for hours!


>None of our cats has EVER been able to tolerate any buzzing
>accessory. Empty a dump car, lower the water tank spout, "BZZZZZT!"
>One cat away, skyward!
>
>
> >So far, no cat has taken a "mouse" ( or cow) from the cattle loader.
>
>Be sure to keep a frequent count!
>
>
>Chuck F.
>
>
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
>s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19348 From: Donald Abrams Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Cats & Trains
Our cat just loved the Oil Drum Loader. She would look at you while tapping
on Louie the Loader with her paw so you would start it up. Never harmed the
trains, just wanted to see them run. I've a 290 Pacific with a high
intensity lamp and optical headlight lens that throws a beam dozens of feet.
She would bounce off the living room walls trying to catch it while the
train circled the tree!
One Christmas I set up the L brand of trains under the tree. I was running a
stout dual motored GG1. My daughter was visiting and brought her cat. He
liked the train to rub his flank. He'd sit so close to the track that the
engine would rock him slightly, but without ever derailing it. He also liked
the warmth of the ZW and would curl up against it while the train was
running.
Happily, never any yellow stains!

Don
Group: S-Trains Message: 19349 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1440
In a message dated 05/02/2002 2:56:55 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> Say, were these buildings really made by ACG? Item #'s 1727601136 and
> 601137. Just curious. They are not listed in my book. Thanks,John.
>
>
>
> Gilbert used these houses in their "Pikemaster" sets.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19350 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Re: Cats & trains
I think I would have to put a radiator shop on the HO layout!!!!! !LOL

CHRIS THE TRAINNUT


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19351 From: Ted Larson Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: GREAT photo and website
From the GN e-list:
Be sure and poke around in the website
http://www.steamfreightcars.com

Subject: Interesting Minneapolis picture

Hi all,

I found this interesting picture on steamfreightcars.com:

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/shot%20of%20mo/shotofmoapr02.html

It depicts the construction of a viaduct over yardtracks in
Minneapolis,
MN. The picture is dated October 4th, 1949 but fails to pinpoint the
exact location. The freightshed in the middle of the picture has a sign
that reads 'Great(?) - Northern Burlington Team Tracks' on the roof.
The
tracks to the right of it, with the wide roadways in between, contain a
lot of reefers indicating that this might be a produce transfer yard or
market (for lack of a better name).

Does anyone know where in Minneapolis this picture might have been
taken
and which railroad's yard this might be?

Also check out the (open air!) steam boiler and stack in front of the
freightshed!

Thanks,

Ben Ringnalda

P.S.: Click on any freight car in the picture to learn more about it.
Neat feature!

=====
Ted Larson

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19352 From: John A. Conant Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Re: Cats and Trains
--On Thursday, May 02, 2002 8:56 AM +0000 S-Trains@yahoogroups.com wisely
declaimed:

>> In our house, cats are a no-no on the HO layout - way too fragile.
>> We tolerate them on the Flyer layout - the equipment is so robust
>> it's almost cat proof.

I put a loop around a Christmas tree this year, and covered up the tree
stand with that white pillowy snowy stuff (sheets of fluff, like cotton
batting, not powder). Anyway, it's cat heaven - easy to bat at, to dig
holes in, and to crawl inside of. Didn't survive long....

Regards,

John Conant

=======================================================================
jconant@... *** My computer is S Gauge!! ***
John Conant
Aerodyne Research, Inc.
Billerica, MA 01821
(978)663-9500, ext. 292 FAX (978)663-4918
=======================================================================
Group: S-Trains Message: 19353 From: Bruce Papky Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Cats, (Rats), and Trains.
The other day, John and Chuck had amusing stories about their cats and
how the felines dealt with their owners' respective layouts. In 1964,
in grade 11, our Biology class did an experiment using white lab rats
and how different diets might affect their weight gain over a period of
time. At the end of the experiment, I was a lucky lottery winner, and
took one of the rats home for a pet. It was very tame, as it had been
handled on a daily basis for a few weeks by many, many kids. Anyway, I
used to place the little guy in my Norfolk & Western gondola, and send
him for rides around my layout. He seemed to enjoy it, and I don't ever
remember him leaping out. I hadn't thought about that rat until John
and Chuck wrote about their cat experiences.

Bruce.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19354 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Cat story
Hi,

I have a train room in my basement. It has a drop ceiling. I don't know how my cat accessed the topside of the ceiling, but when I heard the crash, I discovered the cat had stepped on one of the flimsy light panels and brought itself and the light panel down on my Flyer layout. No real damage. Flyer trains and cats are a tough lot. Yet another cat walked coolly away from a routine disaster. I wish I was that cool.

Regards,
Tim



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19355 From: Paul Yorke Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Motor Tester
Thanks to Shawn Solderitch's help, I was able to add a page that tells
how to build his famous motor tester.

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/tester/tester.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 19356 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Re: Motor Tester
That's a great piece of work! I'll be sure to build one ;-)
Thanks for making it available

Fred
Group: S-Trains Message: 19357 From: af21115 Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Re: Motor Tester
Years ago when I was very heavily into repairs, I made the AF
equivilant of the Lionel #5 testing center. It was quite easy and
cheap to make. You could fit any loco from 355 switcher to 336
Northern on the top track, test smokers, lights, and reverse unit
functions. On the front were jacks for power test leads to test
complete locos off the test track and accessories. It had another
jack to plug the tender into, and it would tell you if the reverse
unit was working correctly by cycling a set of indicator lights. It
also had a lead to plug into the back of the loco cab to cycle a loco
thru its paces off the test track. It was a very handy unit and made
making repairs very easy. When/IF I ever get this new house built,
hopefully by end of summer, I will most likely make another. If it
works out I'll send instructions, and maybe photos of its
construction.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19358 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: dogs and trains
We have a 8lb mini-dachshund going on 13 yrs who could not resist sniffing
the track under the Christmas tree about 2 years ago. Needless to say her
cold wet nose found a little jolt and she never went near it again. This past
year she remembered and stayed away. I can't remember 20 minutes ago she
remembers two years ago.Ahhh the blessings of age.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19359 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: motor tester
I'd like to reiterate in the"face" of sarcasm that Shawn's motor tester is
a very handy device. I've used mine several hundred times.

Another point: a straight test track is almost useless. Faults in steam
loco running gear, diesel brush wires, trucks, couplers, and other things
will not manifest themselves on a straight track. You need an 'S' shaped
one.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19360 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Paul Yorke's Web Site
Hi,
I'm out of town right now & am using a different computer. Can someone
send me Paul's web site address. Mike S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19361 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Dave Dewey's address
Any one have the Duck's address? Mike
Group: S-Trains Message: 19362 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Re: Paul Yorke's Web Site
Thank You Carl & others Mike
Group: S-Trains Message: 19363 From: tomsmitty2001 Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: cats and trains don't mix
My cat story:

Picture a semi-finished basement with an acoustical-tile / suspended
ceiling. Picture a dividing wall, on one side is the laundry room and
place for the cat box, cat food and cats; on the other side, from
ceiling height down about 3 feet is a wood framed case that had five
shelves of my more-prized American Flyer, items like the Northern,
the 21004, a bunch of the 98x series cars and the NH 499. The intent
was to have sliding clear acrylic panels on the front of the case to
protect against dust and maurauding cats....note the key word there
being "intent".....the panels never materialized. I knew the cats
like to venture out of their room and into the main part of the
basement via the route of space between the joists and ceiling
tiles. When I built the display case, I blocked the available routes
( or so I thought ) by jamming scrap cieling tiles into the space
atop the dividing wall and between the joists. I unfortunately
underestimated the determination of one pussy cat. The offending
cat, who will remain nameless, forced her way past the blockade and
onto a ceiling tile that was just above the top of the display case
frame. The pussy cat, with too many years of easy living, weighed
more than the tile could support and down came the tile and the cat.
No damage was incurred by said cat, no damage was incurred by said
trains, but my heart nearly gave out when I went to investigate the
commotion. And there, hanging vertically out into space, some 6 feet
above the floor, by the front truck which was caught on the edge of
the uppermost shelf, was my NH 499 ! Holy @#$& ! Guess cats aren't
the only things with nine lives.

Regard"S",

Smitty
Group: S-Trains Message: 19364 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: animals and trains
Toy trains make good homes for many creatures, especially if stored in a
basement for years. I remember a half dozen newborn spiders marching out
of a 290 in an orderly single file. Spiders seem to be the most common
invader, but ticks, the large ones, also really enjoy sheltering in Flyer
trains. I've found several species of moth pupae inside rolling stock.
And of course, mice love to go in the baggage doors of the 653 and eat up
the paper. They usually can't get into the other heavyweights though.

Some people recommend that when you obtain a bunch of trains that have beem
stored in a damp basement, you should put them in a garbage bag with
mothballs for a few days. I have never done this.

Sorry, no cat stories. All I have is a turtle. But the red tailed hawk I
watch out my window in the winter is a celebrity -- he has already had a
book and a movie made about him. His name is Pale Male.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19365 From: fahrwud Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Cats'n'Trains
No doubt it's the hunting instinct in cats that make them go after
smaller scurrying creatures....or trains. I remember an article on an
N scale garden layout years ago.(Yup, N scale in the garden) The
owner had real problems with a section of track in a tunnel that
always corroded, crystallised and broke up. After a lot of
investigation and conclusions drawn, the tunnel was named Kimpiddle
Tunnel or something like that......cat's name was Kim of course......
I'm hoping American Flyer equipment would make enough noise and smoke
to scare the felines off.....
Regards,
Dave W.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19366 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/2/2002
Subject: Re: (no subject)THE DUCK
Thank You Guys, Mike
Group: S-Trains Message: 19367 From: Roy E. Plotnick Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: More cats
My experience is also that cats and trains don't mix. At various times my
two cats have snuck down the basement. They then either wander around on
the layout, dislodging my laboriously planted trees, or they try to climb
on the display shelves, knocking trains down to the carpet below. I tried
the spray cat repellant, but it did a better job repelling me than
them. My wife once bought me a device that was supposed to repel cats by a
high pitched sound, but it was ineffective. A close look at the directions
indicated that the sound may not be audible to older cats! We got our
money back. The only thing that is effective is total cat exclusion from
the basement. -Roy Plotnick
Group: S-Trains Message: 19368 From: royhoffman Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Re: More cats
I could have used your cat.

I had a mouse knock over a bunch of scenery and defoliate my "super
trees". I finally got it with poison.

Roy H.

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Roy E. Plotnick" <plotnick@u...> wrote:
> My experience is also that cats and trains don't mix. At various
times my
> two cats have snuck down the basement. They then either wander
around on
> the layout, dislodging my laboriously planted trees, or they try
to climb
> on the display shelves, knocking trains down to the carpet below.
I tried
> the spray cat repellant, but it did a better job repelling me than
> them. My wife once bought me a device that was supposed to repel
cats by a
> high pitched sound, but it was ineffective. A close look at the
directions
> indicated that the sound may not be audible to older cats! We got
our
> money back. The only thing that is effective is total cat
exclusion from
> the basement. -Roy Plotnick
Group: S-Trains Message: 19369 From: af21115 Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Re: motor tester
Neither Lionel or my home made C5 tester were big enough to "Run" a
train on for more than a few inches in each direction. To make it big
enough to do so is not practical. On my model, I put a block under
the loco position to keep the wheels up from the rails. Once the loco
was repaired and certain systems checked with the tester, the loco
was run on a test track consisting of a straight and a half, then two
S curves. This tests quite effectively the ability of the loco to
negotiate curves without loosing power or binding for various reasons.


> I'd like to reiterate in the"face" of sarcasm that Shawn's motor
tester is
> a very handy device. I've used mine several hundred times.
>
> Another point: a straight test track is almost useless. Faults in
steam
> loco running gear, diesel brush wires, trucks, couplers, and other
things
> will not manifest themselves on a straight track. You need an 'S'
shaped
> one.
>
> Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19370 From: Mark Preman Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: American Flyer Trains For sale
The new list is posted at:
http://www.americanflyertrains.com

This list includes a whole bunch of Lionel Flyer from
York. Happy hunting. Mark

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19371 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Ctt product review and 100 issue of ctt
Hi All,
I got really bent out of shape last night after reading the product review
for the new Lionel AF offerings. It started out with: S-Gaugers, Theres hope!
Lionel is offering new AF ......... So I wrote a note to the editor about all
the lionel articles. Following is my e-mail and the editors reply:


It looks like another Lionel magazine again. Why don't you get your heads
> out of lionels butt? Even in product news in the most recent issue, the
> writer says something to the effect of s-gaugers there is hope. Lionel is
> offering some new items this year. New items my butt. It's the same crap
> they have been making for 30 yrs for the s-gauge group. Lionel almost
> killed s-gauge. Thank goodness for S-Helper Service, American Models and
> the other s-gauge specialist who have made s-gauge a very popular and
> growing scale.
> Why don't you have articles on the people who are truly doing great things
> for s-gauge. Even MTH has done more with the reproduction accessories.
> Lionel is a joke.
> AC Gilbert would roll over in his grave if he knew what lionel has done to
> his s-gauge trains.
> I don't subscribe to your magazine because of all the lionel articles. If
> you would like an article on a portable s-gauge layout(4X12) set in a
> Christmas scene using S-Helper track and trains, mixed with old and new
> Flyer trains and accessoris, I would love to do an article for you. There
> are a ton of great s-gauge layouts around the country. Put a call out for
> them to step forward. Give the magazine more s-coverage.
> Sorry to have gone off on your magazine. I don't mean to offend
> anyone,except lionel. I have attached some pics of my layout. It is
> currently set up at the Middletown Histoical Societys Museum, to coincide
> with the S-Spree being held down the street at the Manchester Inn . If you
> send someont to cover the spree, they could walk a few blocks down to the
> museum and cover my layout also.
> Thanks for listening.

Hi Chris,

Thanks for your email and the photos. We published a S gauge modular
Christmas layout (using S-Helper and American Models trains and track) last
winter and we've already got a how-to story on making an S gauge portable
Christmas layout coming up this winter, so I'll have to pass on yours for
the time being.

Our associate editor Roger Carp will be at the S Spree. Sorry, but I can't
help you with Lionel. Lionel is a business just like all of the other hobby
manufacturers (and magazines, too). S-Helper and American Models are much
smaller companies with lower overhead, and they both are able to make a
successful go of it in the S gauge market. Lionel has greater overhead than
S-Helper and American Models and needs higher sales numbers than it is
getting to cost-justify any all-new S gauge offerings.

Most of the readers of Classic Toy Trains magazine are 3-rail O gaugers. As
editor I've got to select stories that meet the expectations of my readers.
If I put a greater number of S gauge stories in CTT I'd attract more S
gaugers, but I'd surely loose a greater number of O gaugers since there are
more O gaugers to begin with.

Thanks for writing.

Sincerely,

Neil Besougloff

Now doesn't that just beat all. I could put more s-gauge articles in but I
would probably lose our O gauge readers. Humbug!

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19372 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Re: Ctt product review and 100 issue of ctt
In a message dated 5/3/02 1:37:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Cbtrainnut1@... writes:

<< Most of the readers of Classic Toy Trains magazine are 3-rail O gaugers. As
editor I've got to select stories that meet the expectations of my readers.
If I put a greater number of S gauge stories in CTT I'd attract more S
gaugers, but I'd surely loose a greater number of O gaugers since there are
more O gaugers to begin with. >>

Well, Chris, at least Besougloff is being honest with you. Given the year
after year content of CPWLT, his response should be no surprise to anyone.
And, given the superabundant product selection and other developments in that
part of the hobby, O gauge is where the "joint is jumpin' " these days.

BTW, Lionel (MPC, LTI, and LLC) has been manufacturing (or importing) Flyer
for about 20 years, not 30. The MPC era and the early Kughn era did see some
Flyer made that was desired by many. Heck, the orders for the NYC set this
year are good (surprise!). However, it is clearly beyond time for Lionel to
move on and augment the classic stuff with some genuinely new.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 19373 From: Doug Peck Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Re: cats and trains
And I thought MY cat was the only one that did that!!!!! It's great for a
laugh!
Mine (who is spoiled rotten!) likes to jump up on the layout (horrors!!!!)
and stalk the engine..............until it gets too close for his comfort
zone!


<<<I've a 290 Pacific with a high
intensity lamp and optical headlight lens that throws a beam dozens of feet.
She would bounce off the living room walls trying to catch it while the
train circled the tree!>>>>>

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST weeknights.
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please.)
Website: www.portlines.com
E-mail: doug@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 19374 From: pygar2 Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: True S Gauge Figures?
I just bought a Walthers catalog to see what was available in this
line. But almost all they had was 1/72 Preiser "pretend it's S Gauge"
figures. Anyone know where real S gauge figures can be bought? Not
blobby lead RR workers, I mean something at least as good as Merton.
If I track down an address for Preiser, do you think our emails might
help them decide to quit skipping over our scale?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19375 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: dogs and trains, rabbits and trains
hey gang-two rabbit, one dog story-Until 2 years ago,
we had a huge, sweet house pet rabbit-a Flemmish Giant
doe named Wabbit. Her size-22 lbs.-gave her a mighty
thump-an maple floors, it sounded like someone
striking a hammer blow-and as loud,too. When the
layout was hummin', she'd sit under it and thump until
i shut down. Hitting the whistling bill board would
cause her to charge me-she know it was all my doing.
Our Christmas layout would be ignored-unless it was
Standard gauge. She'd charge the train, hitting the
loco til it derailed-then sit up and start grooming
herself. happy with a job well done.
The dog story is similar-the first Christmas layout
was of little interest to our dogs when we were just
setting it up. That first year it was Standard gauge
(btw, this year is S gauge's turn again). Then
everything changed when the train came to life-picture
2 female Rottweilers and a Cocker Spaniel barking
their heads off, while our huge male Rottie ran around
the tree, chasing and barking at the awful monster
running around his living room.They have since
accepted the Christmas village/layout, but the image
of that poor, "terrified" Ives set and Otis will
always linger on- john marganski


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19376 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Re: motor tester
Not only an "S" shaped test track, but also switches and crossings.

Roger

jarcho@... wrote:

> I'd like to reiterate in the"face" of sarcasm that Shawn's motor tester is
> a very handy device. I've used mine several hundred times.
>
> Another point: a straight test track is almost useless. Faults in steam
> loco running gear, diesel brush wires, trucks, couplers, and other things
> will not manifest themselves on a straight track. You need an 'S' shaped
> one.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19377 From: pygar2 Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Guitar Strings?
Ay musicians here who'd be willing to sell me their old strings nest
time they restring? I want to try something... using wirewound guitar
string, especially bass guitar if I can get it, to simulate exhaust
hoses etc. on 1/64 cars, etc. I don't see paying $25 for new strings
and shipping for something I am just experimenting with. I am hoping
to find flatwound and roundwound both...
Group: S-Trains Message: 19378 From: stan sharon amanda koci Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Fw: This ones for you...]
----- Original Message -----
From: Arthur Buchanan
To: STAN KOCI
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 9:39 PM
Subject: [Fwd: This ones for you...]



-------- Original Message -------- Subject: This ones for you...
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:35:01 -0700
From: William E Berg <billb@...>
To: William E Berg <billb@...>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19379 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Re: motor tester
I use my layout as a test track. If the loco can go through the whole layout well, then it's a good repair.

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Hinds
To: jarcho@...
Cc: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] motor tester


Not only an "S" shaped test track, but also switches and crossings.

Roger

jarcho@... wrote:

> I'd like to reiterate in the"face" of sarcasm that Shawn's motor tester is
> a very handy device. I've used mine several hundred times.
>
> Another point: a straight test track is almost useless. Faults in steam
> loco running gear, diesel brush wires, trucks, couplers, and other things
> will not manifest themselves on a straight track. You need an 'S' shaped
> one.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19380 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: S-Scale figures needed?
In a message dated 05/03/2002 4:12:25 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> Subject: True S Gauge Figures?
>
> I just bought a Walthers catalog to see what was available in this
> line. But almost all they had was 1/72 Preiser "pretend it's S Gauge"
> figures. Anyone know where real S gauge figures can be bought? Not
> blobby lead RR workers, I mean something at least as good as Merton.
> If I track down an address for Preiser, do you think our emails might
> help them decide to quit skipping over our scale?
>
>
> Am I missing something here?....Artista makes all kinds of S-Scale figures.
> I have a couple dozen of them including three different Hobos, and they are
> super. They come painted or unpainted, whichever turns your crank...I don't
know which dealers on this list handle them, but they are advertised in
S-Gaugian all the time....
Steve in Boise


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19381 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, May 5, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19382 From: Chuck Smith Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Re: S-Scale figures needed?
Try MTH figures. They're almost perfect S scale. Available painted or
in a large pack unpainted. Don't have an address, but try any MTH
dealer, which ought to be more common than S dealers.

boss31@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 05/03/2002 4:12:25 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
> S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
> > Subject: True S Gauge Figures?
> >
> > I just bought a Walthers catalog to see what was available in this
> > line. But almost all they had was 1/72 Preiser "pretend it's S Gauge"
> > figures. Anyone know where real S gauge figures can be bought? Not
> > blobby lead RR workers, I mean something at least as good as Merton.
> > If I track down an address for Preiser, do you think our emails might
> > help them decide to quit skipping over our scale?
> >
> >
> > Am I missing something here?....Artista makes all kinds of S-Scale figures.
> > I have a couple dozen of them including three different Hobos, and they are
> > super. They come painted or unpainted, whichever turns your crank...I don't
> know which dealers on this list handle them, but they are advertised in
> S-Gaugian all the time....
> Steve in Boise
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 19383 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Preiser
I saw a bunch of Preiser S figures at the recent Greenberg show here on Long
Island. The price is the problem. Preiser is 3 to 4 times the price of
MTH's S figures. In G scale they have a selection of hot babe's in bikinis.
I almost bought 'em!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19384 From: Wayne and Alice Beachy Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: ACSG update
Hey Everyone,

I have just finished updating the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers web pages. We have added a new division in Delaware and they have their own pages. I also added some photos of Scott Brown's, of the Washington and Old Dominion Division, layout. Check it out at http://sgauge.homestead.com/acsgindex.html

Wayne Beachy
Virginia Central Division
Atlantic Coast S Gaugers


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19385 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Catz
I thought if I posted this story again, I would just bore you all since I've
posted it before. Perhaps I put it on the TCA list? I just don't remember,
but it is a good story.

Piccolo was the runt of the litter, but clearly the smartest and absolutely
his mother's favorite. When I took him from his home in Tenant's Harbor,
Maine, his Mom jumped up on the hood of my BMW and went nosies with Pickle
through the windshield as we backed down the driveway. He was six weeks old
and it was time for him to go, but Josephine did not want to give him up.

Back in our apartment in Northport, Pixie soon established his dominance
over our adult cat, Mr. Snuggles. Eventually, after much hissing and
fur-letting, they became fast friends, redirecting their combined
hostilities to the problem of the crows who hovered over our treed and hilly
neighborhood. Like vitamins, they took one a day, with Snuggie acting as
the wounded or dead bait and Piccolo leaping into the air, from cover, to
take the bird from above!

The first time I saw Pickle, he was out in the tall grass with his brothers
and sisters. His mom, Josie, who was around the front of the house,
caterwauled the kids in and they had to follow her voice to find her.
Piccolo had the most intelligent looking face and he was indeed the first to
find Mom. When he did, mother and son sprang a full three feet straight up,
just to say "hello." I knew then that bright boy was going to be my cat.

He had all the markings of a Maine Coon (like his Daddy) but none of the
long hair to go with it (thanks to Mommy). Born of a wild union, he was a
perfect little hunter, well trained and full of good instincts.

I kept a 4 by 8 Flyer layout standing in our office. That apartment had
more room than our house. Plasticville telegraph poles were strung with
bare copper carrying 12-15 volts of AC from one Plasticville building to the
next. I often kept the litle Marx transformer, that fed the building
utilities, hot for effect, even when the trains were not running. One
afternoon, we arrived home to find Piccolo standing on his hind legs, on the
layout, all tangled in the wire. Half the poles were broken or torn free
from their bases. Every time the wires crossed, they sparked, and the poor
cat jumped from another jolt. He couldn't escape the tangle nor the
persistent little transformer that had no circuit breaker. I have no idea
how long Godzilla terrorized himself and the populace of Plasticville. I
shut it off and broke him free through a torrent of laughter that brought
tears from my wife and me.

I reminded Pickle of that story back in 1999, on a hot July night, as he lay
on his pillow, dying of old age. It was one of the remembrances of good
times I wanted him to have before he left for good. He died about twenty
minutes later, with my hand on his head and my wife on the phone from her
Mom's house in Florida, whispering her love in his ear. He was loved and he
was good and he gave us this good story.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19386 From: Steve Blancard Date: 5/3/2002
Subject: Re: Catz
Chris,
Thats the best strory yet! My sides are aching from the laughter. What a visual, I can picture Catzilla in my mind - arcs n' sparks n' fur.

Thanks,
Steve Blancard
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Zizzo
To: slist
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 9:31 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Catz


Snip
Half the poles were broken or torn free
from their bases. Every time the wires crossed, they sparked, and the poor
cat jumped from another jolt. He couldn't escape the tangle nor the
persistent little transformer that had no circuit breaker. I have no idea
how long Godzilla terrorized himself and the populace of Plasticville.
snip


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19387 From: Ms. Judy Messinger Date: 5/4/2002
Subject: Cats & Flyers
Anybody have a good caption for this?


Joe M.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19388 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/4/2002
Subject: Lionel ZW Transformer
Hi,

I'm thinking of buying a Lionel ZW 275 watt transformer to run my Flyer trains. Does anyone know how many volts the four controllers each put out. I know the Flyer 30b puts out 18 volts per side.

Thanks,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19389 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/4/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel ZW Transformer
Watch out. There are 4 Lionel transformers that look alike
Inside the transformers are different, otherwise they look the same.
The best zw measures 3 1/2" across the transformer plates. (inside)
The other measures 3". If possible measure the watts somehow.

Roger

Tim Brown wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm thinking of buying a Lionel ZW 275 watt transformer to run my Flyer trains. Does anyone know how many volts the four controllers each put out. I know the Flyer 30b puts out 18 volts per side.
>
> Thanks,
> Tim
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19390 From: Thomas Curley Date: 5/4/2002
Subject: Re: BNSF Prototype pics
I have two questions, one of which might seem trivial:
First, how do I access the "Photos" section? I do not
recall seeing this mentioned on the list before.
Second, a few weeks ago (I think??) I read a question
posed either to this group or in a magazine about
modeling a desert railroad (e.g. Southwest US) and
there was a nicely detailed response by someone
describing the different types of terrain in doing
such a layout. I would like to read the response
again, but can't for the life of me remember where I
saw it.
Any help would be appreciated.
TC
--- markdkoenig <mdgineok@...> wrote:
> For those interested in diesel locomotives, I was
> driving by BNSF's
> NE Minneapolis yard today and saw over one hundred
> locomotives. They
> were all lined up in the southern part of the yard.
> I just happened
> to have my digital camera with me so I took a few
> shots. They are
> posted in the "Photos" section if you're interested.
> They are named
> BN Yard #1, #2, and #3.
>
> "S"incerely,
>
> Mark Koenig
> Roseville, MN
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19391 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/4/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel ZW Transformer
Hi,

Thanks. I was looking on eBay at some. I won't be able to take the covers off or measure any output. Are there some model numbers of good ones vs. bad ones? It seems to me that a good Lionel ZW transformer would beat the heck out of two Flyer 30b units. It think would take up less space and the controls would be more to my liking.

Thanks again,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Hinds
To: Tim Brown
Cc: S-List
Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Lionel ZW Transformer


Watch out. There are 4 Lionel transformers that look alike
Inside the transformers are different, otherwise they look the same.
The best zw measures 3 1/2" across the transformer plates. (inside)
The other measures 3". If possible measure the watts somehow.

Roger

Tim Brown wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm thinking of buying a Lionel ZW 275 watt transformer to run my Flyer trains. Does anyone know how many volts the four controllers each put out. I know the Flyer 30b puts out 18 volts per side.
>
> Thanks,
> Tim
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19392 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/4/2002
Subject: ZW
Most old ZW's produce from 8 to 20 volts. There is some variation -- I've
measured some at 21 or 22 v. You don't want to run AM diesels on this
voltage unless you like toast a whole lot.

Some servicing is often required. The insulation on most Lionel wiring did
not age as gracefully as Flyer's -- it cracks and falls off. Therefore,
most times the power cord must be replaced. There is a way to do this
without disassembling the transformer completely, but it's tricky and too
complex to explain here. Also, typically some or all of the 4 graphite
rollers must be replaced. Lionel dealers generally perform these tasks
before selling used Z's. They stretch things a little and call them
"rebuilt".

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19393 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 5/4/2002
Subject: ZW transfformers
In a message dated 05/04/2002 4:12:53 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> Hi,
>
> I'm thinking of buying a Lionel ZW 275 watt transformer to run my Flyer
> trains. Does anyone know how many volts the four controllers each put out.
> I know the Flyer 30b puts out 18 volts per side.
>
> Thanks,
> Tim
>
>
>
20 Volts


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19394 From: Don Abrams Date: 5/4/2002
Subject: ZWs
I've got a 250 watt ZW and run Flyer with it.
The first few years of production they were 250 watts.
Later they became 275 watts until the end of production.
With a digital meter mine measures about 22 volts.
They also marketed a VW (not an automobile).
It came in an identical case and was 150 watts.
You probably don't want this one.
They are plainly marked as to wattage on the front plate.
The top emblem changed a few times over the years of production, but this
was merely cosmetic.
Internally there were a few changes over the years -- like the circuit
breaker style.
The carbon rollers are easy enough to change.
Whistle rectifiers can be weak or entirely failed, but they're not needed
for flyer.
If you run the newer LTI Flyer just use the separately available
whistle/bell buttons.
Prices have fallen from highs of over $300 dollars in recent years to around
$200.
Having four independently adjustable outputs is a plus, in addition to the
'40s art deco industrial styling.

Don
Group: S-Trains Message: 19395 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 5/4/2002
Subject: E-mail to Classic Toy Trains
Hi All,
I had the surprise of my life today. I received a call from Carl at Classic
Toy Trains about the e-mail I sent to them the other day. We talked about why
S-gaugers don't submit article or send leads about well done layouts. we also
talked about why only 14% of CTT's subscribers are s-gaugers. I told him when
s gets more coverage more Sers would subscribe. I also told him that the
people who answer the surveys are o subscribes
He had no idea of the s-trains list. I sent him the websites of Paul's, the
s-trains website. If this list of 739 would bombard CTT with e-mails maybe
we could get them to put an online survey of what it would take to get us
interested in CTT.
It is a big turn around from the e-mail sent by Neil.. they are willing to
listen, so let's let them hear us. Send your e-mails toCarl at <A HREF="mailto:RCARP@...">
RCARP@...</A>
It only takes a few minutes to send an e-mail and a chance to start preaching
to someone other than the choir about s-gauge. There are possibilities here
folks. Numbers talk.
Carl will be going to the S-spree this friday and saturday in dayton. And
yes there is still time to make the trip and /or order your spree car. It
comes in 2 numbers so you can have to of them. 20 bucks to get into the spree
and 54 bucks to have a car sent to you or 45 picked up at the spree.
Hope to see a lot of you at the spree.


There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19396 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/4/2002
Subject: smoke unit part numbers
Does anyone know the part numbers for:

- the black fiberboard separator with two holes and four 'legs' in late
smoke units

-The rigidly mounted hard bodied coil found in direct wired 336's.

I'm trying to write up a little something about smoke units. Thanks.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19397 From: pygar2 Date: 5/5/2002
Subject: Re: S-Scale figures needed?
--- In S-Trains@y..., Chuck Smith <cesmith@e...> wrote:
> Try MTH figures. They're almost perfect S scale. Available
painted or
> in a large pack unpainted.

"Artista", "S Gaugian", and "MTH" I've never heard of but will start
looking on the Net. How tall are MTH figures? What scale are they
*supposed* to be?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19398 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/5/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel ZW Transformer
To be more specific; Lionel Transformer info;
watts model
Lionel: 250 ZW
250 Z
275 ZW
275 Z

Gilbert: 300 19B, 30B, 22070, 22080

As you can see AC Gilbert out did Lionel as far as Watts go.
Train buffs like the looks of the Lionel ZW. And their chest puffs out when
they say, " I have a Lionel ZW transformer "
Oh yes. I do have one. With the 3 1/2 " plates.

Roger


Tim Brown wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Thanks. I was looking on eBay at some. I won't be able to take the covers off or measure any output. Are there some model numbers of good ones vs. bad ones? It seems to me that a good Lionel ZW transformer would beat the heck out of two Flyer 30b units. It think would take up less space and the controls would be more to my liking.
>
> Thanks again,
> Tim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roger Hinds
> To: Tim Brown
> Cc: S-List
> Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 9:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Lionel ZW Transformer
>
> Watch out. There are 4 Lionel transformers that look alike
> Inside the transformers are different, otherwise they look the same.
> The best zw measures 3 1/2" across the transformer plates. (inside)
> The other measures 3". If possible measure the watts somehow.
>
> Roger
>
> Tim Brown wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm thinking of buying a Lionel ZW 275 watt transformer to run my Flyer trains. Does anyone know how many volts the four controllers each put out. I know the Flyer 30b puts out 18 volts per side.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Tim
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19399 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/5/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, May 5, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19400 From: John Foley Date: 5/5/2002
Subject: Berkshire Junction
Hi Folks
You may want to check out Berkshire Junction's website.
They have some new S gauge operating Crossbucks,
Traffic Lights, Arc Welding light and many other
electronics that can be used in S. The also have an
crossing gate activator that can be used with the NJ
crossing gates.
Check it out at http://www.berkshirejunction.com/

John
Group: S-Trains Message: 19401 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 5/5/2002
Subject: ZW Transformer - 4 trains??
Hello all,

I have not tried a ZW but I see all the ads say you can run four
trains at once. I also noticed four sets of contacts on the
transformer, but only two handles. So how do you run 4 trains at
once with the ZW?

BG1
Group: S-Trains Message: 19402 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/5/2002
Subject: Re: S-Scale figures needed?
pygar2@... asks:
>"Artista", "S Gaugian", and "MTH" I've never heard of but will start
>looking on the Net. How tall are MTH figures? What scale are they
>*supposed* to be?

MTH is Mike's Train House, Lionel's chief competitor in 3 rail 0 gauge
trains. MTH accessories, houses and people seem to be scaled more to the
liking of us 1/64 guys. In fact measurements have borne that out. MTH
figures include roughly 6 foot tall men (1.125") and 5' 6" tall women
(1.031") who measure closer to 4' 6" and 4' 2" feet tall in 1/48.

Artista is a manufacturer of scale figures whose ads can be found both in
Model Railroader and S-Gaugian, an S-Gauge specialty magazine. S-Gaugian
can be found on the web at http://www.heimburgerhouse.com/s.htm

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19403 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 5/5/2002
Subject: Remote Electromagnetic couplers for American Flyer
I've always wanted to have a "yard goat" for the switching duties with
remote control electromagnetic couplers. I often thought that the Lionel
couplers were so close to the AF profile that they could be made to work, so
being the tinkerer that I am, I have come up with a conversion.

Pictures and Documentation are on my web site at:

http://www.tuveson.com/ElectCoupler/electocoupler.htm

Enjoy...

Carl


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.tuveson.com
Check out the New AF Loco Geared Drive Kit !
Buy it on line with PayPal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Group: S-Trains Message: 19404 From: Paul Yorke Date: 5/5/2002
Subject: X10 Cameras
Some folks on the list were asking about the x-10 camera. Here are some
test shots that I made today. I am experimenting with using Sony camera
bateries for power. And also using photographer's diopters to get a
better close up focus.
see..
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/loco_cam/x10/x10.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 19405 From: Gale Hall Date: 5/5/2002
Subject: Re: ZW Transformer - 4 trains??
Just to the inside of the large lever handles is a ring with a small lug on
it, that moves with much less rotation than the levers, this is the other
pair of controllers..

gale hall
----- Original Message -----
From: "bull_gator_1" <bull_gator_1@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 4:20 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] ZW Transformer - 4 trains??


> Hello all,
>
> I have not tried a ZW but I see all the ads say you can run four
> trains at once. I also noticed four sets of contacts on the
> transformer, but only two handles. So how do you run 4 trains at
> once with the ZW?
>
> BG1
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19406 From: bassflyer Date: 5/5/2002
Subject: Re: Classic Toy Train magazine
--- In S-Trains@y..., Cbtrainnut1@a... wrote:
**((I received a call from Carl at Classic Toy Trains about the e-
mail I sent to them the other day. He had no idea of the s-trains
list.))**


Doesn't surprise me,....I'm not even sure they know of the
NASG!!! Remember a few issues back,...they mentioned train
clubs,..TCA, TTOS, etc.....no mention of NASG,...of course we aren't
as big as the others. And sure,...more "O" people out there,...but it
is supposed to be a "TOY" train magazine,...and yes, they run stories
on other types of toy trains,..but they seem far and few inbetween.



Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19407 From: Neil Trump Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Warning for ebay item # 1727981284
This is a K335 Northern being sold here in England. I'm sure some of the bidders are on this list and I would like to give you a bit more information about it.

I saw this engine about 6-7 years ago when it was offered to me for £300/$450. I took a day off work and travelled about 80 miles to see it. Having found a number of defects I declined to purchase it, the seller then informed that I had been wasting his time! I guess you can't win them all.

The defects are:-

1/ Missing reverse unit.
2/ Missing the horn, as I couldn't see it.
3/ Had some home made eccentric valve gear to replace broken original on one side.
4/ The white stripe had been re-painted
5/ The top of the tender at the rear had two holes drilled in it, I guess to let the sound out better at some stage in its life.

I hope this is of help to anyone considering bidding on it and to bid accordingly.

Regards,

Neil T.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19408 From: Knight, Gene Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: FW: American Flyer and S-Gauge
> ----------
> From: Roger Carp
> Sent: Monday, May 6, 2002 9:29 AM
> To: Knight, Gene
> Subject: RE: American Flyer and S-Gauge
>
> Dear Gene,
>
> Thanks for your email and thoughts about Classic Toy Trains. I have tried
> for years to get leads on S gauge collections and layouts, with mixed
> success. I have also tried to get knowledgeable people to write how-to and
> repair stories, in-depth pieces on collectible items, and so forth--rarely
> has someone been willing to help. Without support from the right people, we
> at CTT cannot get more information in the magazine. If you can help in the
> respect, I will be grateful.
>
> We also poll our readers on a regular basis. We have seen support for S
> gauge stay at 15 percent of our subscribers for more than a decade. I hope S
> gauge is growing, but don't see the evidence. If you can help here, I will
> also be grateful.
>
> I hope to meet you at next week's S Spree in Ohio. I will be speaking there.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Roger Carp
> Associate Editor
>
>
> > ----------
> > From: Knight, Gene
> > Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2002 10:45 AM
> > To: rcarp@...
> > Subject: American Flyer and S-Gauge
> >
> > In response to a post on our S-Trains mail list, I am writing in hopes you
> > could post an online survey to see what it would take to see more of us
> > S-Gaugers interested and subscribing to Classic Toy Trains. Right now, I
> > buy it on occasion but would definitely subscribe if there were a lot more
> > American Fyer and S-Gauge trains in general. It is a wonderful magazine
> > but for now....it just doesn't suit my interests. Thank you for your
> > consideration and I look forward to hearing from you.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Gene Knight
> >
> >
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19409 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Here's the Challenge!
Friends, I took Chris's advice and sent a letter to Roger Carp of Classic Toy Trains. I hope many of you did the same. Here is Roger's response and challenge to us S gaugers:
>>>

Dear John,

Thanks for your email and thoughts about Classic Toy Trains. I have tried for years to get leads on S gauge collections and layouts, with mixed success. I have also tried to get knowledgeable people to write how-to and repair stories, in-depth pieces on collectible items, and so forth--rarely has someone been willing to help. Without support from the right people, we at CTT cannot get more information in the magazine. If you can help in this respect, I will be grateful.

We also poll our readers on a regular basis. We have seen support for S gauge stay at 15 percent of our subscribers for more than a decade. I hope S gauge is growing, but don't see the evidence. If you can help here, I will also be grateful.

I hope to meet you at next week's S Spree in Ohio. I will be speaking there.

Sincerely,

Roger Carp
Associate Editor
>>>

I won't be going to S Spree, but I hope that those of you who are will buttonhole Roger and spread the gospel. I don't buy his contention that, based on CTT's subscriber base of 15% S gaugers, there isn't a lot of "evidence" for S support. That's like saying that there isn't much support for O because S Gaugian magazine can't count very many 1/48 scalers in its base. D-U-H!

But Roger's letter is nice, and deserves a response from the S community. I don't know if he's solicited assistance from NASG, but I think that would be a good way to start. How about it, Roy or John ― can we help get the word out to CTT that there's more to S than meets their myopic vision? Perhaps Roger's opinion is why Kalmbach (CTT's owner) doesn't really support S in its "World's Greatest Hobby" campaign (they have drawings for free train sets in EVERY scale but S). Folks ― what we have here is a failure to communicate.

YourS,
John Eichmann
RMHR
Boise
Group: S-Trains Message: 19410 From: David Dewey Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: American Flyer
Dear Roger,
I read with interest your response to Gene Knight's email. It is
refreshing to see that you may be at least considering that there is growing
interest in S gauge. You mentioned that your readers' polls show a steady
15% interest. I would like to point out that trusting these polls is flawed,
as they only show your current readership's interest. Many in S, like myself
do not subscribe because of the lack of S coverage (I used to subscribe, but
dropped because of this).
You commented on the inability to find writers of S gauge articles. Hmm,
my only comment is that many years ago I wrote a simple article on easily
converting Marx 3/16" cars to S and submitted it. It was actually accepted!
I used the payment to get a two-year subscription to your magazine; but (as
far as I know) the article was never published. This is rather discouraging,
to say the least. I now write a regular column for the Dispatch on "Fixin'
Flyer" so I have not given up on writing about S gauge.
I hope you will see many new things at the Spree; I wish I could be
there to talk to you, but I live in California, and the trip is just too far
for me at present. I know you will have a good time there, as you will find
S gaugers a very hospitable group.
S'incererly,
David Dewey
Group: S-Trains Message: 19411 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: To: Classtrain.com
Hello:
I wrote to your Magazine many years ago informing you of a museum I
developed. This museum was originally built to display a large American
Flyer (Gilbert) model RR. It eventually evolved into a museum of all kinds
of toys and models. The great majority of the models are made buy the museum
founder. Some are very rare. All forms of transportation are represented.
The main display is an American Flyer Railroad. The original display has
been torn down and is being replaced. I am building a model of the Mountain
Division in Crawford Notch in NH. The period is about 1890's.
I am at the moment making a model of the original Frankenstien trestle. Which
is coming along. Quite a bit of the model RR is built. There will be ceiling to
floor
scenery in a few places.
So I am wondering if this is of any interest to you. We also have many models
that your other magazines (by your company) would be interested in.

You can see the museum at HTTP://www.travel.to/cofa
Keep in mind that the model RR in the web site is the old one (now gone).
The web site will be updated when the new layout is ready for the camera.
I plan to have the layout ready for the public this summer.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 19412 From: Michael Christensen Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Re: S-Scale figures needed?
Try Doug Peck at Portlines. He carries a wide range
of figures.
--- boss31@... wrote:
> In a message dated 05/03/2002 4:12:25 PM Mountain
> Daylight Time,
> S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
>
> > Subject: True S Gauge Figures?
> >
> > I just bought a Walthers catalog to see what was
> available in this
> > line. But almost all they had was 1/72 Preiser
> "pretend it's S Gauge"
> > figures. Anyone know where real S gauge figures
> can be bought? Not
> > blobby lead RR workers, I mean something at least
> as good as Merton.
> > If I track down an address for Preiser, do you
> think our emails might
> > help them decide to quit skipping over our scale?
> >
> >
> > Am I missing something here?....Artista makes all
> kinds of S-Scale figures.
> > I have a couple dozen of them including three
> different Hobos, and they are
> > super. They come painted or unpainted, whichever
> turns your crank...I don't
> know which dealers on this list handle them, but
> they are advertised in
> S-Gaugian all the time....
> Steve in Boise
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19413 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Re: Classic Toy Train magazine
I just sent an email to CTT telling them what IO thought about their
lack of american flyer article. Everyone on S-List should do the same
about flyer or whatever their "S" interest is. This should be
interesting.John B.


--- In S-Trains@y..., "bassflyer" <comic@d...> wrote:
> --- In S-Trains@y..., Cbtrainnut1@a... wrote:
> **((I received a call from Carl at Classic Toy Trains about the e-
> mail I sent to them the other day. He had no idea of the s-trains
> list.))**
>
>
> Doesn't surprise me,....I'm not even sure they know of the
> NASG!!! Remember a few issues back,...they mentioned train
> clubs,..TCA, TTOS, etc.....no mention of NASG,...of course we
aren't
> as big as the others. And sure,...more "O" people out there,...but
it
> is supposed to be a "TOY" train magazine,...and yes, they run
stories
> on other types of toy trains,..but they seem far and few inbetween.
>
>
>
> Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19414 From: Knight, Gene Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: layout question
Does anyone use the blue insulation board used for houses on their layout? I have 1/2" wafer board with supports every 16 inches. Does it take latex paint well or at all? I am trying to avoid buying homosote and this would be free ;)

Thanks!

Gene
Group: S-Trains Message: 19415 From: Chuck Smith Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Re: layout question
I have used blue and pink. Both work well, are carveable, and take
latex paint. Makes great mountains by building up layers. Your wafer
board might sag over a long time, though. Consider additional supports
under track if they are not close to one ot at right angles.

"Knight, Gene" wrote:
>
> Does anyone use the blue insulation board used for houses on their layout? I have 1/2" wafer board with supports every 16 inches. Does it take latex paint well or at all? I am trying to avoid buying homosote and this would be free ;)
>
> Thanks!
>
> Gene
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 19416 From: Rhett T. George Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Sawmill
- Greeting`S' -

Last night I finally disassembled my L sawmill sufficiently to get the
infamous failed worm wheel or gear out. 'Tis nylon (or similar), has
an o.d. of 18.8 to 19 mm, or 0.75", 36 teeth, and 'tis 1.5 mm thick.
Hub is a bit thicker. This sucker has straight teeth. It is not a
true worm wheel. Now I have to go to the handbooks with the worm o.d.
to find the correct tooth angle. Grrrr.

Cheer`S'
Rhett
Group: S-Trains Message: 19417 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Re: Cats & trains
John Gasal was looking for cat stories. I have always had a cat, and she
has always been a welcome guest on my layouts.

In about 1967 I had a curve, Lionel, Styrofoam tunnel on my layout. I had a
seal-point Siamese who was cross-eyed. I named her Samantha Limp Lizard
Green Gills Marty but that was promptly shortened to 'Sam' then 'Tham'
(cause she had a bit of a lisp) and finally 'Thambo'.
I started up my Franklin with several of the old-timer coaches in tow
and sent it on around the layout. Everything was fine until it entered the
East portal of the tunnel and then all hell broke loose! The tunnel jumped
about six inches straight up into the air and suddenly poor Thambo erupted
from the West portal going much faster than the Franklin had gone in. I
stood there, in shock watching all of this happening.
I watched Thambo flee the room and then turned back to the tunnel. That
Franklin was a good smoker. Although Thambo had knocked the Franklin off
the tracks, she had not knocked it over and great clouds of smoke were
poring from both portals. I wrenched the throttle off, re-railed the
locomotive and proceeded as before.
I checked that tunnel daily after that for several months. Thambo never
slept in there again.
Don't think noble of me. As a seven-year-old boy I many have been being
kind by checking before running. But maybe I was looking for a repeat...

Thambo passed on in 1983. Everything else in this story is in my current
collection.

Thorin
Milwaukee, WI.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wisconsin Electric - Wisconsin Gas is now We Energies.
Please use our new email extension "we-energies.com"
when addressing email to this sender,
e.g., john.doe@....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19418 From: Robert Wight Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: CTT Letter Sent
Group;
I sent a note to Carl at CTT to do my part. I tried to make it short
and to the point, but friendly and courteous to not take any chance to
reflex badly on our group.
Yours in Model Railroading
Bob Wight

P.S. But that poll they did is a sidebuster. Now that's Classic!


Check Out My American Flyer Trains
http://www.boomspeed.com/bobgaylord/


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19419 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Re: Cats & trains
> John Gasal was looking for cat stories. I have always had a cat, and she
> has always been a welcome guest on my layouts.
>
Story 2:

I acquired a cat in 1986 in Connecticut by moving into an apartment. I
first saw Callie looking DOWN the stairs from second floor as I moved into
an apartment in Clinton, CT. She had just wandered in and made herself at
home.

I purchased my first circle of K-Line curves and the Lionel Southern GP-9
set for Christmas. I put up a circle of track and let it run. These were
the first trains she had ever seen. She fled up the stairs and watched them
from on high. Then she came down and got closer and closer. Finally she
SAT on the track. Before I could stop the train, she was hit! She made a
mad dash back up the stairs and began watching them anew from on high.
Round one to the GP-9.

She crept back down and eventually realized the train was not leaving the
tracks. She was safe as long as she was not on the tracks. My wife and I
were watching Callie and then suddenly Callie brought up her right paw,
wound it up, and smacked the Geep right on the nose! The powered Geep kept
pushing and the entire train's slack ran in. Callie suddenly had one very
dirty paw. Round two to the GP-9.

She hasn't allowed a round three, although she often watches the trains from
the cat beds I have on and above the layout. However this cat has gotten
even in a number of ways. My 343 (0-8-0) made a trip to the floor because
she pushed the track to the side so she had a better walk way.
I once ran a Geep into my engine house and had it stall half way in. It
did this three times in a row. Then I looked into the engine house and
found a solid bed of cat hair! She had been sleeping and cleaning in there!
Catenary (complicated trolley overhead) does not slow this cat down.
Instead she 'wades' across the catenary and looks ridiculous doing so.

Callie (or Thambo or Esmerleda) have only ever damaged something when a loud
noise startled them. When walking at normal speed they do zero damage.
(Itchy heads while purring is a different matter.) Callie is now 18 years
old and still going strong.

Thorin
> Milwaukee, WI


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wisconsin Electric - Wisconsin Gas is now We Energies.
Please use our new email extension "we-energies.com"
when addressing email to this sender,
e.g., john.doe@....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19420 From: Ted Walton Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: ZW, VW transformers
Since no one has blasted us yet for talking about Lionel transformers here,
please allow me to ask the following questions to Tom J, and any one else who
would like to comment of course.

I purchased a VW transformer( as you probably know, outside looks like the ZW,
but only 150 watts) in excellent condition except the power cord was completely
shot as you suggested is generally the case. This was my repair and would you
comment. The case is easily removed by removing 4 screws from the bottom. The
power cord was very brittle with exposed wire from the plug to about 5 or 6
inches before where the cord is soldered onto the interior transformer
components. Not knowing whether the transformer would work, I took the easy
path and cut the bad portion of the old cord off and attached a new 16 gauge
lamp cord to the remaining 6 in cord which was in good condition inside the
transformer. I used wire nuts to attached the new cord to the remaining, good
(excellant) old cord, used electrical tape over each wire nut individually, and
then taped them together with more tape. I did it this way because I was
concerned of potential problems in un-soldering and re-soldering at the
terminals where several wires are connected and the possibility of molten
solder falling where it shouldn't. The transformer now works fine although I'm
a little concerned about how long it takes the circuit breaker to kick-out on a
dead short..

Since heat is generated inside the transformer during normal use, will the
electrical tape come off, and then the wire nuts, to generate a problem with
exposed wires?

Also, the plug on the original cord is a molded, plastic plug with the Lionel
"L" . Do you know of a way to some how drill the plug out to reattach it to the
new cord?

Although the VW is only 150 watts compared to 250/275 watts for the ZW, it
does have the 4 variable voltage controls and 2 whistle/direction controls. If
not enough wattage to run all your trains, it can provide a lot of flexibility
in operating accessories/lighting on the layout at reasonable cost. I have
purchased one for as low as $70 in excellent condition - but you do have to
hustle and bargain.

Ted Walton
Group: S-Trains Message: 19421 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: ZW transformers
We forgot something when discussing the Lionel ZW transformers. Åll Lionel
Multi-Control transformers, of which the ZW was the top of the line model,
add a few additional volts when the whistle control is thrown on. They
have a separate winding to provide this extra kick for the whistle motors.
i don't remember what exactly this added increment measures, and don't have
a Z in the shop right now to check. As I recall it is about 2 or 3 volts.
Therefore, the maximum voltage of a Z, which would occur when you blow the
whistle, is about 22 or 23 volts.

While the whistle control on a Z will activate one side of the LTI
railsounds, if you blow it at full speed it will probably toast the
railsounds and the electronic reverse unit too.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19422 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: ZW,VW
Ted: that sounds OK to me. if your work was careful and neat, it should
hold up for years. If the wire nuts were screwed down tight, they aren't
going anywhere.

Melted solder is not a problem. It won't actually stick to anything. When
you finish the repair, just turn the transformer bottom upside down and
shake it and any loose solder will fall out.

I prefer to replace the entire cord, because if the exposed cord insulation
was bad, that inside the unit will be bad too. However, if you tied a knot
in the right place in the cord to provide strain relief, tugging on the
cord will not stress the old bit of cord and it should be ok. You can wrap
vinyl tape around that too for extra protection.

Same thing goes for the plug. if the oord was bad, the plug will be rotten
too, and there can be a lot of stress on it. You don't want to reuse it.
The heck with the "L".

You can obtain replacement cords with molded on non-polarized plugs.

Anyone have a different take on this?

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19423 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Classtrains
Well. I got a response. In effect Mr. carp says he isn't interested in viewing the
layout on my web site, because I tore down the layout therefore is of no interest.
I responded to him that viewing my old layout will display my level of skill. Also

viewing the pictures will show how AC Gilbert can made to look as good as a
scale layout.
The Mountains, hand made buildings etc. go a long way to distracting the viewer
that trains are high rail. I had only one small area with Plasticville buildings.
Anyway his interest was minimum at best. Ho Hum.

comments

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 19424 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Re: Classtrains
Huh !
I just got another note from Roger Carp saying he will be away for a week
or so and he will respond to me again.
Perhaps he something spurred him to second thoughts. ???? ;o}

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 19425 From: Tom Rolfsmeyer Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: [Fwd: S gauge trains]
Got his name wrong but still got a reply. The canned version plus a little
more. I will reply to this and let him know we are progressing with the senery
and 2 years may be to long.

Tom

Roger Carp wrote:

> Dear Tom,
>
> Thanks for your email and thoughts about Classic Toy Trains. I have tried
> for years to get leads on S gauge collections and layouts, with mixed
> success. I have also tried to get knowledgeable people to write how-to and
> repair stories, in-depth pieces on collectible items, and so forth--rarely
> has someone been willing to help. Without support from the right people, we
> at CTT cannot get more information in the magazine. If you can help in the
> respect, I will be grateful.
>
> When we are unable to find outside contributors to write about American
> Flyer (with the notable exception of Joe Deger), we either run fewer
> articles or we try to research and write them in-house. I come the closest
> to being a Flyer enthusiast on the staff, so I try to put together some
> articles--which means that errors may creep in. For that, I can only
> apologize and try to do better.
>
> By the way, I have been in touch with someone else at your museum in Tucson
> to learn more about the progress of the layouts. I was informed that you are
> doing benchwork and trackwork. I replied that when you are finished and the
> layouts have scenery, I want to come there and do an article. They told me
> to think about coming in two or three years, so we will definitely cover the
> layouts in CTT.
>
> Finally, we also poll our readers on a regular basis. We have seen support
> for S gauge stay at 15 percent of our subscribers for more than a decade. I
> hope S gauge is growing, but don't see the evidence. If you can help here, I
> will also be grateful.
>
> I hope to meet you at next week's S Spree in Ohio. I will be speaking there.
> Agian, thanks for writing and sharing your thoughts.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Roger Carp
> Associate Editor
>
> > ----------
> > From: Tom Rolfsmeyer
> > Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2002 3:57 PM
> > To: RCARP@...
> > Subject: S gauge trains
> >
> > Carl,
> >
> > I am one of many folks who regularly meet on line to chat about S gauge
> > and American Flyers trains. We swap stories and repair advice along with
> > the great exchange of who has what and any thing that is in the works. A
> > lot of us subscribe to CTT but are very disappointed in the few articles
> > and layouts displayed in your magazine. There is a lot of S out there
> > and more of it coming every day.
> >
> > I belong to the Gadsden Pacific Toy Train Museum here in Tucson and we
> > are in the process of building a S gauge layout. Our museum features
> > almost every size toy train ever made from Z to Standard with a
> > operating layout for each one.
> >
> > One other thing we notice about any articles that you do publish about S
> > gauge and American Flyer trains is that they are often very inaccurate.
> > We have many experienced collectors who could answer questions and guide
> > your reviewers so that when you publish articles about S gauge trains
> > they will be accurate and up-todate.
> >
> > Please consider this an appeal to search out and print more articles
> > about and for the S gauge community.
> >
> > Thanks for your time and attention.
> >
> >
> > Tom Rolfsmeyer
> > 6739 W. Via Ramoncita
> > Tucson, AZ 85743
> > 520-572-0579
> >
> >


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19426 From: Tom Rolfsmeyer Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Re: S gauge trains
Roger,

Sorry about the incorrect name and thank you for your response. The
Gadsden Pacific Toy Train Museum is progressing nicely and you may not
have to wait 3 years for most of the scenery to be in place. Our
membership is growing and more work is getting done on all aspects of
the museum. We have scheduled open to the public dates and a tour guide
you can call for any special occasions that would like to see the
museum.

As a member of the S-trains group on Yahoo I would like to invite you to
visit with us on Sunday nights. All you need to do is log in to the
groups area of Yahoo and search for S-trains group and join the group
and log in. We meet on Sunday nights at 8:00 PM Eastern daylight savings
time. Discussions very every week but we often discuss repair issues,
new products and variations in AF locomotive stock and rolling stock.
This is a great group of guys and we usually get at least 12 people
together on Sundays. Some times we have friends from England, Australia,
Canada, and coast to coast in the US. Come join us for a hour some
Sunday night I think you might enjoy it.

Tom Rolfsmeyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19427 From: Al Muncy Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: [Fwd: REQUEST MORE S GUAGE]
I got this reply from Classic Toy Trains when I send an email to them.
since my trains are all in boxes for right now I can not send pictures,
Hope some of you will submit articles that they can print as I do enjoy
reading them and looking at the pictures.

--

( Big Al
( ) )
( ) )
() ____.______._____
.--. ----- | _ - a:f - |
__||___|[_]| |.|#|.[].[].[]..|
o)__ |_ | ..|=|_|-|___________|
__ <(__(*)_(*)_~_____~(*)____(*)_____
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
www.muncyncompany.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19428 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: ZW,VW
Tom Jarcho answered Ted Walton's ZW/VW question and then asked:
>Anyone have a different take on this?

I read Ted's post and was formulating an answer when I came across your
response, Tom, and I agree wholeheartedly. Forget about the old plug. You
don't drill out old plugs, you throw them away. I would have done the
solder job. What can you hurt, really? I've modified broken Lionel
transformers. It's amazing what you can do. Wire nuts, if they are tight,
don't even need tape and vinyl electrical tape is meant to sustain a lot of
heat.

I just don't see the problem.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19429 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Blueboard usage
From: "Knight, Gene" <knight@...>
Subject: layout question

Does anyone use the blue insulation board used for houses on their layout? I
have 1/2" wafer board with supports every 16 inches. Does it take latex paint
well or at all? I am trying to avoid buying homosote and this would be free
;)

Thanks!

Gene

Gene, see Volume IV of "S-Gauge Model Railroading". It has some coverage of
using this board as a tabletop for layouts. If you don't know where to get a
copy of that video, let me know. I have 4 copies of it left.

Steve In Boise
Group: S-Trains Message: 19430 From: Robert Wight Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Lionel Sawmill
Was playing with my sawmill today. Had a minor jam and stripped another
gear. So Lionel mailing me four gears was a good idea I quess. Just think,
at this rate, I'll have used all four gears up before the warranty runs out.
When I get to the last gear,I think this puppy is going on E-bay.
Bob Wight



Check Out My American Flyer Trains
http://www.boomspeed.com/bobgaylord/


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19431 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 5/6/2002
Subject: Another e-mail from Roger at CTT
Hi Everyone,
Keep those e-mails going to CTT. I said in my first e-mail I thought the
person who called me was Carl. As you all know by now I was wrong on the
name. I think we are getting someones attention with all the e-mails. Here is
the most recent e-mail to me from Roger Carp:

Dear Chris,

As you might have expected, I came into the office this morning and found a
couple dozen emails from S gaugers. All were polite and helpful--and
explained why CTT was not meeting their expectations. I tried to answer
their concerns, just as I did when speaking with you on the phone. I hope my
efforts were sensible and helpful.

I appreciated the suggestions you offered on where to look for more
information on the web about S gauge. I checked out a couple of websites and
saw some impressive layouts, ones we will want to follow up on, once we see
more photos of those layouts. For that lead, I am grateful.

I also enjoyed seeing your website and the pictures of your layouts. And
those shots of you as a kid with your Flyer trains at Christmas were
neat--when were they taken?

Anyway, I have learned a lot and hope we can do more in CTT with American
Flyer. The problem is, that you and others are waiting for CTT to have more
S gauge material in it before you'll subscribe and support us. We, on the
other hand, are waiting to see more evidence that S gauge is growing and its
supporters will read and subscribe to CTT before we can feature more
material.

The best solution is for you and others to provide us with more leads on S
gauge collections and layouts. I have tried to obtain them--with mixed
success. I have also tried to get knowledgeable people to write how-to and
repair stories, in-depth pieces on collectible items, and so forth--rarely
has someone been willing to help. Without support from the right people, we
at CTT cannot get more information in the magazine. If you can help in the
respect, I will be grateful.

I am looking forward to meeting you at next week's S Spree in Ohio. Again,
thanks for your interest and support.

Sincerely,

Roger Carp
Associate Editor
Group: S-Trains Message: 19432 From: Neil Becker Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: Re: CTT
It appears a lot of us received the same email response from Carl.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

Dear Neil,

Thanks for your email and thoughts about Classic Toy Trains. I have tried
for years to get leads on S gauge collections and layouts, with mixed
success. I have also tried to get knowledgeable people to write how-to and
repair stories, in-depth pieces on collectible items, and so forth--rarely
has someone been willing to help. Without support from the right people, we
at CTT cannot get more information in the magazine. If you can help in the
respect, I will be grateful.

We also poll our readers on a regular basis. We have seen support for S
gauge stay at 15 percent of our subscribers for more than a decade. I hope S
gauge is growing, but don't see the evidence. If you can help here, I will
also be grateful.

I hope to meet you at next week's S Spree in Ohio. I will be speaking there.

Sincerely,

Roger Carp
Associate Editor

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19433 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: Caig . . . for the final time
Dear S-Trainiac Friends:
All the Caig M260Cp Cramolin Paste has been shipped. This included the
make-ups to those who didn't get it because some came damaged, all the
alternates and some additional late orders. I was able to fill these
because, when Caig made good on the damage, they honored the case price for
a few more single pieces.

With everybody satisfied, I still have two pieces, ready to go, in Priority
Mail boxes with blank address labels. Anybody who feels they missed out on
the first go round, speak up now. They will go to the first two
respondents.

A $25 check and complete address are all that is required.

For anyone who has no idea what I'm talking about, I refer you to a thread
called "Excessive Sparking" that infused this list back in March. It should
explain everything. In brief, this product is a contact enhancing paste
intended to eliminate dead spots and sparking in moving electrical contacts.
I use it for rails, wheels, axles and axle wipers, reverse drums and
fingers, commutators, electrically loaded bearings and bushings, transformer
wipers and rollers and any electrical switch, relay or contactor.

I am not a Caig company rep (though, by now, I feel like one). I'm just the
guy who bought 3 and a half cases of the stuff and collected money from this
group to pay for it and then distributed it. I hope everyone who bought it
soon starts testifyin' like I do.

So that's the deal. Two left, first come, first served.

And thanks everybody for participating. If anyone has technical questions
about this stuff, contact me, busyboy@... or Susan Prenatt at
Caig, ssp@... . For train applications or questions about the order
itself, contact me only.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19434 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: Re: X-10 Camera
I looked at your pix, Paul and I think that the +2 is the better choice. It
has a deeper focus on the engine but poorer long range focus. This will
tend to make passing trains and scenery "pop" more off a softer background.
The +1 is going to render a flatter result. What is the focus of your
camera's view. I think that it is a POV of someone riding in the cab,
looking at the local scenery and the passing trains, not the basement
playroom in the distance. I would have voted for the +3, but it showed too
shallow a field, barely getting the rear of that little Atlantic in focus.

Just my opinion, of course, but one based in a little experience.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19435 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: Check out S-Trains badge
<A HREF="http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/badge/s_badge.htm">Click here: S-Trains badge</A> For those going to the s-spree this week. Here
is a link for an s-trains badge. Print it up and where it so we can find you
at the show. Chris


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19436 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: Re: CTT
Talk about a canned response. I got the same email from him. Buy the
magazine and maybe you will see more flyer articles. Put the articles
in the magazine first and then maybe subscriptions will increase.
Just MHO.John B.







-- In S-Trains@y..., "Neil Becker" <becks@i...> wrote:
> It appears a lot of us received the same email response from Carl.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
>
> Dear Neil,
>
> Thanks for your email and thoughts about Classic Toy Trains. I have
tried
> for years to get leads on S gauge collections and layouts, with
mixed
> success. I have also tried to get knowledgeable people to write how-
to and
> repair stories, in-depth pieces on collectible items, and so forth--
rarely
> has someone been willing to help. Without support from the right
people, we
> at CTT cannot get more information in the magazine. If you can help
in the
> respect, I will be grateful.
>
> We also poll our readers on a regular basis. We have seen support
for S
> gauge stay at 15 percent of our subscribers for more than a decade.
I hope S
> gauge is growing, but don't see the evidence. If you can help here,
I will
> also be grateful.
>
> I hope to meet you at next week's S Spree in Ohio. I will be
speaking there.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Roger Carp
> Associate Editor
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19437 From: Rick Evans Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: CTT magazine.....
I have been in contact with Dick Christianson, Editor-in-Chief, from Kalmbach Books, regarding
a picture I sent them for their, "TOY TRAIN MEMORIES", book. My pic is
still very much in the running,..sooo, at least it wasn't thrown out because it
was two rail!! I will be sending CTT a very nice note expressing my feelings with their
publication,...I too, want to make a point or two, while NOT ruffling any feathers!!

Rick.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19438 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: Re: Classtrains
Thanks for your response. I hope he looks at my web site. People say my
layout
is better then the one at the TTC museum in Strasburg PENN. One fellow
traveling
around the country visiting RR places says mine is one of the best.
Personally I am not impressed when a rich person has a large collection and

fancy shmancy show cases he claims he built. All rich guys say "I built
it"..
Just like Donald Trump claims he built high rise buildings. I don't believe
any of
the guys with large collections and Fancy Showcases lifted one finger to
build them.
The exception would be a carpenter perhaps.

Cbtrainnut1@... wrote:

> Roger, he is coming to my hometown of Dayton to the S-Spree. I am meeting
> with him at the spree and we will be talking about our concerns with CTT.
> Chris
Group: S-Trains Message: 19439 From: jfrr54 Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: Re: Blueboard usage
--- In S-Trains@y..., boss31@a... wrote:
> From: "Knight, Gene" <knight@c...>
> Subject: layout question
>
> Does anyone use the blue insulation board used for houses on their
layout? I
> have 1/2" wafer board with supports every 16 inches. Does it take
latex paint
> well or at all? I am trying to avoid buying homosote and this would
be free
>
I recently tried Blueboard on my layout. It does hold paint, although
I recommend removing the thin plastic layer first. It has really
reduced vibration and noise. My wife only turns up the sound on the
TV 2-3 notches now. It is messy when drilling holes for wires, but
what isn't. Right now I'd give it very high ratings.
John Rodgers
Group: S-Trains Message: 19440 From: jfrr54 Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: Re: Blueboard usage
--- In S-Trains@y..., boss31@a... wrote:
> From: "Knight, Gene" <knight@c...>
> Subject: layout question
>
> Does anyone use the blue insulation board used for houses on their
layout? I
> have 1/2" wafer board with supports every 16 inches. Does it take
latex paint
> well or at all? I am trying to avoid buying homosote and this would
be free
>
I recently tried Blueboard on my layout. It does hold paint, although
I recommend removing the thin plastic layer first. It has really
reduced vibration and noise. My wife only turns up the sound on the
TV 2-3 notches now. It is messy when drilling holes for wires, but
what isn't. Right now I'd give it very high ratings.
John Rodgers
Group: S-Trains Message: 19441 From: david_s_garber Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: S- Trains show badge
Chris, thanks for the link to Paul's badges. You saved me the
trouble of looking it up. Hope to see you and other members of this
list Friday or Saturday in Ohio. David Garber
Group: S-Trains Message: 19442 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1445
LIONEL V W Transformer.

A V W Transformer drawing 17 amps should pop the circuit beaker in 3 to
30 seconds.

Don't use any tape to insulate wires inside the transformer.

The molded "LIONEL" plug, drill out the old wire. pull out the lugs,
solder new wires to lugs, reposition the lugs
in molded shell and fill with a electrical compatible epoxie.

Jerry 77-11644

________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19443 From: Knight, Gene Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: thank you!
Many thanks to all that answered my question about blueboard. I will use all of your suggestions and hope to have some pictures by Christmas ;)

Gene
Group: S-Trains Message: 19444 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: ZW Transformers
Hi,

Thanks to all who answered/participated in my question about Lionel ZW transformers. I was out of town all week-end and am catching up. After reading all the pros and cons, I believe the bottom line for me is that I've decided not to introduce a whole 'nother realm of maintenance into my Flyer hobby. I feel comfortable fixing the stuff I have. I should leave it at that. "A man's gotta know his limitations." - Dirty Harry.

Thanks,
Tim



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19445 From: David Dewey Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: Re: Blueboard usage
Maybe this is a bad idea, but instead of drilling holes, why not use your
pencil soldering iron and melt the holes?
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19446 From: Alex Sibbald Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: track pins
Hi all,
I am rearranging my layout to add a 787 log loader and I am seeking
knowledge. I am adding a loop to allow a train to unload logs on one
side of the loader and another train to receive the logs on the other
side. Hopefully a perpetual motion accessory. I am attempting to remove
a track pin from a af switch to allow the new loop to be powered by an
additional transformer. What is the best way to remove these pins?
Thanks for your input,
Alex(innotron)
Group: S-Trains Message: 19447 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: Re: LIONEL V W Transformer
Gerald R. Dobbs offers this advice:
>The molded "LIONEL" plug, drill out the old wire. pull out the lugs,
>solder new wires to lugs, reposition the lugs
>in molded shell and fill with a electrical compatible epoxie.

Now there's a sensible idea, especially good to give to someone who was
uncertain about whether or not hot solder might damage some transformer
components. If the guy is not facile with electrical repairs, why suggest
this Rube Goldberg idea? I wouldn't do it myself because I am not in the
business of remanufacturing molded plugs that are used to handle line
voltage at a sizable current draw, and I'm an electrical specialist. To
suggest to anyone with only a rudimentary knowledge of power to effect such
a repair is, in my eyes, irresponsible. This guy really wanted to save that
Lionel cord. The sensible advice was to tell him to forget about it, or go
find a repro. Nobody with any sense does line the plug surgery you suggest
because it will eventually fail and possibly injure someone or do damage.
Sometimes, you can be so clever you can outsmart yourself. Electricity is
not a hobby.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19448 From: noramz@webtv.net Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: S-Trains 1446
Group: S-Trains Message: 19449 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 5/7/2002
Subject: Blueboard holes
I use blueboard on my portalble layout and use a razor knife to cut out a
square just larger than the dril bit I'm using. Then I drill the hole , run
the wire and plop the blueboard plug back in. Throw a little ground foam over
it and no one can see it.

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19450 From: Gill W. Lott Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Re: thank you!
Thanks for asking the question! I recently bought a 4 X 8 sheet and am using PVC piping to support it. I haven't done anything but layout track in the shape that I think I want so I can't / couldn't answer your questions but am definitely interested in the answers!

The only thing that I have learned so far is that the 3/4 inch PVC piping at 5 ft lengths aren't as sturdy as I was hoping!

Good luck with your layout, have a great week, TSNSITM!

>>> "Knight, Gene" <knight@...> 5/7/02 8:14:17 PM >>>
Many thanks to all that answered my question about blueboard. I will use all of your suggestions and hope to have some pictures by Christmas ;)

Gene

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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Group: S-Trains Message: 19451 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Re: track pins
Hi,

I use a pair of pliers and grab the switch with my whole hand firmly around the rail so it won't pull out when I pull on the track pin. Sometimes I have to wiggle the pin a bit to get it out. If the switch rail does manage to pull out some, I just work it back in. On those rare occasions when the pin breaks off too short to get a grip on, I use another pin to push it further into the rail, allowing me to tap another pin into the rail.

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Alex Sibbald
To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 12:32 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] track pins


Hi all,
I am rearranging my layout to add a 787 log loader and I am seeking
knowledge. I am adding a loop to allow a train to unload logs on one
side of the loader and another train to receive the logs on the other
side. Hopefully a perpetual motion accessory. I am attempting to remove
a track pin from a af switch to allow the new loop to be powered by an
additional transformer. What is the best way to remove these pins?
Thanks for your input,
Alex(innotron)



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19452 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: track pins
A lot of times it's easier to pull the pin out of the section onf track
connected to the switch; in other words, pull- the pin one track section
away from the switch.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19453 From: Knight, Gene Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Jim G
Jim, i tried to reply to your email but it keeps bouncing back. I have received nothing offlist but I will keep you in mind and let you know if I do.

Gene
Group: S-Trains Message: 19454 From: David Dewey Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Re: PVC supports
Having used 3/4" PVC to build a shelter for my steamboat, I can tell you
that it isn't very sturdy and isn't very permanent. If you insist on tubular
components, use rigid metal conduit.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19455 From: David Dewey Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Re: track pins
Alex,
Depends on the switch type. 720As can be simply pulled out. 720s must
have the rail piece loosened from the base, as the pin is "L" shaped and the
leg of the "L" fits in a molded "hole" in the rail support rib of the base.
You would be much better off pulling pins from at least one rail length
from the switch, otherwise you can run your loco through the switch (or at
least foul of it) from the seperated power supply.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19456 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Roadbed Revisited
Ok gang, lets try this again. Recently got new roadbed from portlines
that is GREAT-IMHO. Question now is, how to secure the roadbed on an
elevated section of track that has material underneath that nails
will not stay embedded in....Many thanks in advance for all the help.
John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19457 From: Doug Peck Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Coal-Loader pulleys
For anyone who is interested, we just today received a shipment of
replacement brass pulleys for the MTH 785 Coal Loader. These will speed-up
your operation noticeably!
Inquire if interested in one. Should have pricing available in a couple of
days.

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST weeknights.
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please.)
Website: www.portlines.com
E-mail: doug@...
VISA--MASTERCARD--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19458 From: Roger Delthony Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Roger Carp and CTT
I believe Roger Carp gave a presentation at the 2000 S Fest in Waukasha.
His topic was innovations in toy trains - features such as whistles,
accessories, and others. His approach was to ask the question whether
American Flyer or Lionel offered them first and when, and then show the
answer. The answers were expected in some cases and surprising in
others. I think he illustrated his talk with slides. The talk was well
researched and presented. If his talk at the Spree is equivalent, the
attendees are in for a treat.

Some of the comments in this thread about Flyer articles in CTT suggest
poor quality and mistakes. While there have been some mistakes, we
should recognize that CTT has published well done articles by Flyer
enthusiasts such as Mike Kolosseus, Carl Byron, Rhoda Sherwood, Jeff
Faust, Paul Nelson, Noel McGaughey, Mike and Forrest Thurber, Bob
Bretch, Bill Ahrens, Ted Hammler, Mark Edwards, and of course Joe Deger.
Roger Carp himself authors some of the Flyer articles. Although I would
like to see more Flyer in CTT, the proportion of articles is
approximately that of Flyer ownership. Keep writing them articles.

Roger Delthony
Group: S-Trains Message: 19459 From: David Dewey Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Re: Roadbed Revisited
Hmm how about "goo" for shoe fixes, etc?
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19460 From: nasglibrary Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Articles in Magazines
All --

As a member of S-Scale and a lurker on S-Trains, I feel that I must
comment on a current thread on both e-lists: Lack of S articles in the
model press.

The only way to counter this is to WRITE them. Magazines can't print
what they don't have. They depend on submissions from their readers.
And they pay for those that they accept (except the S Gaugian). That
alone should be a big incentive.

What's that, you say? Don't magazines have staffers who are paid to
write articles? Well, as an ex-editor, I can tell you that mag staffers

don't have the time for this. They are too busy with editing, planning,

circulation, and advertising to write more than editorials and maybe an
article a year based on their own personal niches.

The S-Trains thread concerns "Classic Toy Trains." CTT's claim is that
S gaugers make up only about 15% of their market, and that that
percentage has been steady for the last decade. (That's perhaps
accurate compared to the O tinplate/hirail numbers.) Nevertheless, CTT
welcomes S articles, and has several suggestions of S-specific material
they'd like.

The S-Scale thread is more dire. S scalers comprise a much smaller
percentage of all model railroaders. Therefore, their submissions
cannot be S-specific; i.e., they must appeal to O and/or HO in addition
to S to be considered for publication.

In either case, make your fingers dance on your keyboards and write
something!!

Dick Karnes
Group: S-Trains Message: 19461 From: Steve Blancard Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Old time gondola cargo
Hi guys,

I finally got a digital camera and took a photo of the old time steam
generator load I put in my Bachman ON30 converted to S gondola. I have
uploaded it to the files section in the "Bachmann ON30 Conversion"
folder. Here's a link to it:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Bachmann%20ON30%20Conversion/ON30%20Gondola%20load.jpg

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 19462 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1446
CHRIS:
What makes you think this fellow is a cluts?

I have preformed this operation many times, (and noted that it has been
a restoration). This is not a rube Goldburg ( a racial slur )
operation. This is a DOBBS do-it. Preformed many times as a Authorized
LIONEL repairman. Many collectors want the original line plug.

I agree with your statement, high voltage is nothing to fool around
with, Know your limitations, (Clint Eastwood)
If you don't want an answer, don't ask.

Jerry Dobbs 77-11644



________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19463 From: David Dewey Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Goldberg a slur??
Hey, wait a minute, since when has Rube Goldberg become a racial slur?? My
understanding is that he (Rube) drew up fanciful machinery run by crazy
stuff (Like water faucet drips, fills pail, pail tips over onto sleeping
cat. Cat Jumps, yowls and thus you have a water activated alarm clock (very
simplified version)). Since then, all such un-conventional repairs or
mechanisms have since been named after his devices.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19464 From: Ted Walton Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: LIONEL V W Transformer
Hey guys, wait a minute, I not that stupid or inept, although I may appear that
way in my writings. I have made many repairs over the years ( cars, trains ,
stoves, furnaces, hot water heater, dish washers, computers, radios, TVs,
player pianos, and the list goes on). But I'm never to embarrassed or arrogant
to ask a question, even if I think I know the answer. That's not to say I have
not gotten into some trouble sometimes, but I have, sometime with consultation,
solved the problems.

Maybe my original questions about my VW (transformer) repair was my attempt to
justify my laziness for not making a "factory type" repair. Actually, I'm still
not sure that if molten solder fell on the transformers copper coil windings it
would not burn off the insulating thin varnish, and even if it did not adhere,
to short out the Cu winding at that point. Would this not be a possibility? I
don't use a soldering iron more then 5 or 6 times a year so I'm no expert
solderer, so for that reason, if I were to solder the cord directly to the
transformer, I would have covered the components with a cloth to reduce or
eliminate the problem of solder dripping in the wrong place.

I was born before wire nuts, and I never had a lot of confidence in there
reliability, although they seem to be used everywhere today. That's why I taped
and double taped, the wire nuts in my repair. What concerned me was the inside
environment of the transformer - some heat build up, posible debonding of the
tape, and possible vibrations that might impact on the permanence of the wire
nuts. I guess if I had repaired 100s of transformers instead of 2 or 3, I would
have more confidence.

With reference to trying to reuse the Lionel plug. You have to have a better
idea of who I am and where I come from. I truly want to preserve the past and
the things from the past - my responsibility to preserve the history of
technology - even a 5 cent plug. I would be embarrassed to tell you how many
hours/days I spent repairing torn player piano roles with Scotch tape -
carefully unrolling them across my living room hardwood floor and carefully
applying Scotch tape so I could play them and know that I was hearing the same
music my grandfather listened to a 100 years ago. ( Not sure Scotch was the
best choice, but that appeared to be the only choice 30 years ago). So the
follow up information on the plug reuse was appreciated, and cautions noted.

Please don't misunderstand my reply, and I do deeply appreciate the response
and comments by all. Always looking for help and information, even on some
thing as simple as the VW transformer. I would love to know who had their hands
on this VW transformer before it was passed on to me to use (and preserve).
I may just go back in and do the repair right.

Ted Walton
Group: S-Trains Message: 19465 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Lionel power plugs
Jerry: you are a very knowledgeable fellow and I always enjoy your take on
repair issues, BUT:

1. Your suggestion to drill out Lionel plugs and fill them with epoxy is
probably the worst suggestion that has ever been posted on this list. It
is certainly the most unsafe suggestion ever posted on this list. As Chris
Zizzo, an electrician, pointed out, such a plug is bound to fail
eventually, creating an unsafe condition in a 110 volt line. Specifically,
it creates a fire hazard and the possibility of electric shock too.

Epoxy is not really that sticky. it adheres more by conforming to the
exact shape required rather than forming a strong chemical bond. it tends
to become dry and lose whatever adhesion it might have originally had. In
that application, it will be surrounded by a flexible material, the plug
housing. This sandwich will be subjected to stress from all directions
when it is plugged or unplugged, and also when the cord is tugged. Since
the epoxy will have a different amount of flexibility from the plug
material, stress will be placed on the interface and it will soon fail. A
plug is essentially a moving part, since it changes its shape while being
plugged in. Moving parts should not be glued.

Electrical plugs should never be re-used. A large amount of stress is
placed on them. They wear out. I have worked as a repairman of small
appliances, lamps, and chandeliers. No one in that field would ever dream
of reusing a plug.

2. Customers come to a train repairman with all kinds of impractical and
even bizarre requests. Part of a repairman's responsibility is to explain
to his customer why an idea is impractical, unsafe, lowers the value of his
trains, or is immoral, illegal, or whatever the case may be. Beyond that,
his resonsibility is to refuse to do those kinds of work.

The proper response to someone who wants a power plug rebuilt is to tell
them their choices are to replace the plug and cord with a new one, or to
leave the originals in place and hang a tag on the transformer saying
:UNSAFE! DO NOT USE! I have actually done this several times.

Toy trains are wonderful, but there is no justification for creating a fire
hazard that threatens the health of your entire family, just to operate a
Lionel transformer in mock original condition. It's a question of
perspective.

3. Speaking as a Jewish American who has been victimized many times by
anti-semitism, "Rube Goldberg" is not a racial slur at all. Rube Goldberg
was a great Jewish American artist, and that's exactly what he was -- a
commercial artist! When the term is used in a derogatory sense, it refers
to something being overly complex and useless. The humor of his work was
generated by the absurdity of using complex devices to perform simple
everyday tasks, much like the feeding machine in Charlie Chaplin's "Modern
Times".


Shalom!

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19466 From: Ron Inscho Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Re: Goldberg a slur??
Dave so right you are. I am just old enough to remember the Rube Goldberg
comics in the daily paper, It took a real genius to draw / design those
useless & crazy but very funny machines.and to call something a Rube
Goldberg I would consider to be a complement and in no way any kind of slur.
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19467 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Spring Spree
Sorry folks,
We will not be there. I will be attending a trolley meet in Lowell Mass. at teh DOuble Tree hotel. If you are in the area, stop in and see us.
Tom D.

Tom Doherty
Pennsylvania Heritage Models, Ltd.
http://www.paheritagemodels.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19468 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: New Replacement MTH Coal loader Pulley
I have posted on my site a step by step installation and review of the New
Replacement MTH Coal Loader replacement pulley. This pulley will be
available from your friendly S gauge parts guys Doug and Joe I believe...

http://www.tuveson.com/Newpulley/new_coal_loader_pulley.htm

It look like a winner to me.


Carl


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.tuveson.com
Check out the New AF Loco Geared Drive Kit !
Buy it on line with PayPal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Group: S-Trains Message: 19469 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Yahoo again
Has anybody noticed that Yahoo seems to have eliminated a certain
viewing feature of the Photos section?

It used to be that, when you opened a photo, you would first see
a "medium sized" (480x320) version of whatever had been uploaded
(assuming it was at least 480x320.) If the pic was larger than
480x320, there would be the words "full size" above the pic, and you
could click that to see the full size image.

Now, there is no such "click" to click. Below the title for the
480x320 view, there is still an indication that the full size image
is there (the full file size is given), but there seems to be no way
to view it.

This change was made sometime between 11:00 PM PDT on 5/7/02 and 5:00
PM PDT on 5/8/02.

WASSUP YAHOO?



Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19470 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: SLUR
We had better stop this thing here & now' Was Killroy who was on many a
boxcar also a slur? When does a comment become a slur? When we let it. Mike
S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19471 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: SLUR PS
one more thing that the 'NET' HAS BROUGHT US IS THE FACT THAT "we" TALK TO
OTHERS WITHOUT NKNOWING THEIR RACE OR OTHER FACTORS THAT MEETING FACE TO FACE
BRINGS. WE ARE ALL INTERESTED IN TRAINS NOT PEOPLE'S RACE , COLOR ETC. One
benefit of the "Net" Mike S
Sorry for all the "caps"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19472 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 5/8/2002
Subject: Securing track
In a message dated 05/08/2002 10:39:37 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
> Subject: Roadbed Revisited
>
> Ok gang, lets try this again. Recently got new roadbed from portlines
> that is GREAT-IMHO. Question now is, how to secure the roadbed on an
> elevated section of track that has material underneath that nails
> will not stay embedded in....Many thanks in advance for all the help.
> John B.
>
> Use LIQUID NAILS.....Steve
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19473 From: Don Thompson Date: 5/9/2002
Subject: Re: Spring Spree
Mike and I will be leaving this morning for the Spring Spree. We will have the painted and lettered samples of most of the F-7s on display.
Don

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 19474 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 5/9/2002
Subject: Re: New Replacement MTH Coal loader Pulley
Hey Carl:
Thanks for your help with pictures on not only this, but other train
problems. These really are great and can be used as a crutch if needed!
Regards,
Rance Velapoldi

Carl Tuveson wrote:

>I have posted on my site a step by step installation and review of the New
>Replacement MTH Coal Loader replacement pulley. This pulley will be
>available from your friendly S gauge parts guys Doug and Joe I believe...
>
> http://www.tuveson.com/Newpulley/new_coal_loader_pulley.htm
>
>It look like a winner to me.
>
>
>Carl
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> http://www.tuveson.com
> Check out the New AF Loco Geared Drive Kit !
> Buy it on line with PayPal
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19475 From: hellonc99 Date: 5/9/2002
Subject: Re: Roger Carp and CTT
--- In S-Trains@y..., Roger Delthony <rpd5@e...> wrote:
> While there have been some mistakes, we
> should recognize that CTT has published well done articles by Flyer
> enthusiasts such as Mike Kolosseus, Carl Byron, Rhoda Sherwood,
Jeff
> Faust, Paul Nelson, Noel McGaughey, Mike and Forrest Thurber, Bob
> Bretch, Bill Ahrens, Ted Hammler, Mark Edwards, and of course Joe
Deger.
>



Don't forget the great articles Tom Jarcho has contributed to CTT!

Tom Druga
Group: S-Trains Message: 19476 From: michael prell Date: 5/9/2002
Subject: Re: Goldberg a slur??
Someone even came out with a board game a few years
ago which was great fun. No slur should be derived
from this true piece of Americana. Half of my house
is...but let's not go there. My wife might see this
and I've got her convinced that the shower head works
better this way :)
--- David Dewey <djdewey@...> wrote:
> Hey, wait a minute, since when has Rube Goldberg
> become a racial slur?? My
> understanding is that he (Rube) drew up fanciful
> machinery run by crazy
> stuff (Like water faucet drips, fills pail, pail
> tips over onto sleeping
> cat. Cat Jumps, yowls and thus you have a water
> activated alarm clock (very
> simplified version)). Since then, all such
> un-conventional repairs or
> mechanisms have since been named after his devices.
> S'
> David D.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories
> too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


=====
Being angry is the same as holding a hot coal in the palm of your hand. You want to hold on to it in order to throw it at another, but only hurt yourself in doing so.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th!
http://shopping.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19477 From: roberte613@aol.com Date: 5/9/2002
Subject: Re: New Replacement MTH Coal loader Pulley
Great instructions. Makes me believe even I can do it. Wish I had an equally
clear and illustrated set of instruction for replacing my American Model
steamer wheels with traction wheels :)

Thanks for the effort. I'm sure many of us will make use of it.

Robert


Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 23:06:33 -0500
>
> From: Carl Tuveson <carl@...>
> Subject: New Replacement MTH Coal loader Pulley
>
> I have posted on my site a step by step installation and review of the New
> Replacement MTH Coal Loader replacement pulley. This pulley will be
> available from your friendly S gauge parts guys Doug and Joe I believe...
>
> http://www.tuveson.com/Newpulley/new_coal_loader_pulley.htm
>
> It look like a winner to me.
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19478 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/9/2002
Subject: BNSF in the news
The A.P. reports that BNSF has agreed to pay $2.2 million to employees whom
it secretly performed genetic testing on.

Meanwhile, BNSF has hundreds of perfectly good diesels in storage, because
they couldn't decide what kind of locos they wanted. Photos were posted
here.

Maybe they should have been testing their locomotives instead of their
employees!

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19479 From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) Date: 5/9/2002
Subject: Bristol club exclusive boxcar is now available
Yo:

In case you haven't heard the Bristol club is selling a car (2 numbers)
build exclusively for them, it is a SHS steel rebuild boxcars, road name
"North Stratford RR".

We now have the cars in stock and are starting to ship. Sales are going
well, so if you are interested, don't hesitate.

See our web site for ordering information
http://www.trainweb.org/bristol-s-gauge/index.html

Tom Robichaud
President
Bristol S-Gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 19480 From: Mike Vana Date: 5/9/2002
Subject: Getting that "accessory roof" finish
Several months ago there was discussion about repainting
accessory roofs, like on the bell danger signal, towers,
etc., to get that rough "sand paper" look like American
Flyer had.

It may be as easy as not thinning your paint, and bending
an old airbrush needle so it "spits" the paint out. If
anybody follows up on this idea, they will have to
experiment some more to get it right. My airbrush gives me
lots of frustration sometimes, and while trying to paint
something the right way yesterday, got the "rough" finish
instead. The airbrush needle was slightly bent, and
sometimes the paint came out in globs. I didn't have an
extra needle (and usually it's impossible to really
straighten one) but used the old one anyway. Earlier
yesterday I had used a different color paint, and it went
on smoothly, even with the same bent needle, so the
consistency of the paint might be part of the recipe.

For what it's worth, I thought that I would pass this along.

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19481 From: M.McConnell Date: 5/9/2002
Subject: View from above
I hope I can get a some help on a little project I've adapted. I've
recently been playing with a new WEB site that has satellite images of just
about every spot in the US. I've been trying to locate some of the more
well-known railroad sites and interests in the country so I can put them up
on our club's WEB page, and so far I've not done too well.

Here are some of the sites I've found so far. Perhaps some of you good folk
could point me in the direction of more such sites? You'd be surprised how
difficult finding a spot is when you don't know the exact local - it took
me over an hour to find the Tehachapi loop! I finally found it by following
the tracks out of the town of Keene.

The images can be large and load slowly on a dial-up connection, so be
patient. You can also zoom in or out on an image, and even pan the picture.


<http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.asp?S=11&T=1&X=1211&Y=11057&Z=18&W=2>30th
Street Station, Philadelphia, PA
http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.asp?S=11&T=1&X=1211&Y=11057&Z=18&W=2


<http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.asp?S=13&T=1&X=369&Y=2819&Z=18&W=2>Railroad
yard, NYC
http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.asp?S=13&T=1&X=369&Y=2819&Z=18&W=2
I can't tell you which yard this is - I was trying to find Grand Central
Station, and I have no idea if I'm even close.


<http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.asp?S=11&T=1&X=1784&Y=11214&Z=17&W=2>Horseshoe
Curve,
Altoona<http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.asp?S=11&T=1&X=1784&Y=11214&Z=17&W=2>,
PA
http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.asp?S=11&T=1&X=1784&Y=11214&Z=17&W=2
This was not an easy one to find either! If you look close, you can see a
train entering the loop from the upper curve.


<http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.asp?S=12&T=1&X=450&Y=4870&Z=11&W=2>Tehachapi
Loop,
Keene<http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.asp?S=12&T=1&X=450&Y=4870&Z=11&W=2>,
CA
http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.asp?S=12&T=1&X=450&Y=4870&Z=11&W=2
This was just plain hard to find. It's not easy tracking railroad tracks,
but I found it!


<http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.asp?S=10&T=1&X=2186&Y=23121&Z=16&W=2>Chicago
Railyard and
<http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.asp?S=10&T=1&X=2186&Y=23121&Z=16&W=2>Roundtable
http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.asp?S=10&T=1&X=2186&Y=23121&Z=16&W=2
As in New York, I have no idea where this is - but I think I found an old
roundhouse!


If you live near any such site, perhaps you can pinpoint it for me? If you
can identify what the heck I found in New York or Chicago, let me know?

Oh yea, if you have a minute - see if you can find your house!

Thanks!
Michael

(This is my second attempt to send the message to the S-List. The first was
bounced back to me because I tried to send the links as embedded HTML code
- and that is apparently not allowed. You should be able to copy and paste
the above URL's into your browser. . .I hope! Copy everything starting with
"http" and ending with "W=2" all as one sentence)
Group: S-Trains Message: 19482 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/9/2002
Subject: Re: BNSF in the news
Tom,

What knid of "genetic testing" was BNSF doing?
Do you have a link to the AP story?


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19483 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 5/9/2002
Subject: CAN MOTOR FOR DIESELS
We have had our prototype Diesel can conversion running continuously for over
24 HR now and so far so good. It is in a 370 at the moment. I'm going to take
some close up pictures of it over the weekend and send them to Paul Yorke to
post on the web site. We don't know how to do it so I'm leaving it up to him.
When we are in production you will have the choice of the "standard" speed or
the more "scale" speed one if you wish to partake.

On another note "S-Gauge Model Railroading" Vol. V will be ready for shipping
in mid June. It will feature the Maryland gangs club layout at shows and
other things. I am going to sneak a minute or two of my own "under
reconstruction" layout that uses Blue Board for the table top and the sill
seal material for the roadbed. There will also be a short revisit to the
"Rocky Mt. Hi-Railers" showing their addition of a fourth loop and a round
house and turntable. Also in there is about 20 seconds of a 293 pulling just
a gob of cars up and around the grades with a "scale" speed can motor in it.
I don't know the price yet because I haven't found out the Post Offices new
rates. The cost of tapes went up 30c, and I'll have to check with the PO for
media rates.

Thanks for the support....Steve & Sam
Boise
Group: S-Trains Message: 19484 From: alsflyer Date: 5/9/2002
Subject: Turbine Engine X-18
Does anyone know who produces the S-gauge turbine engines that are in
the Photo archive of S-Trains?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19485 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Re: View from above
MICHAEL.....GIVE TERRASEARCH ANOTHER TRY...TYPE IN YOUR HOME ADDRESS OR ANY
OTHER USING ADVANCE SEARCH...GETS THERE QUICKER...BOB CONNER
Group: S-Trains Message: 19486 From: Michael Greene Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Re: Turbine Engine X-18
Those are pictures of the UP Super Turbines from River Raisin Models. You
can find more information on their web site at:
http://www.riverraisinmodels.com/up8500.html

Real nice models and run very well!

Michael

At 06:47 AM 5/10/2002 +0000, alsflyer wrote:
>Does anyone know who produces the S-gauge turbine engines that are in
>the Photo archive of S-Trains?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Greene Dunstable, MA, USA
Member: NMRA(Life), NASG, Bristol S Gaugers, NTRAK, TCA, The 470 Railroad
Club

Bristol S Gaugers http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com
National Assoc. of S Gaugers http://www.nasg.org
Maine Railroads (including DCC Corner) http://www.mainerailroads.org

need a good web hosting service? see http://www.fivebuckhost.com/?r=mgreenej
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Group: S-Trains Message: 19487 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Roger Carp and CTT
It is interesting that one of Roger Carp's
statements was that his surveys showed
a steady 15% S gauge subscriber rate to
CTT magazine. If they have about 90,000
subscribers that would mean about 13,000
are S gaugers. Our major magazine the
S Gaugian sells about 6,000 copies per
issue and our NASG organization has about
2,000 members so CTT is reaching more
S gaugers than we are. It would be good
if we could get more S gauge articles
published. The NASG is putting together
an ad to run in several issues.

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn


Roger Delthony wrote:
While there have been some mistakes, we
should recognize that CTT has published
well done articles by Flyer enthusiasts
such as Mike Kolosseus, Carl Byron,
Rhoda Sherwood, Jeff Faust, Paul Nelson,
Noel McGaughey, Mike and Forrest Thurber,
Bob Bretch, Bill Ahrens, Ted Hammler,
Mark Edwards, and of course Joe Deger.

Don't forget the great articles Tom Jarcho
has contributed to CTT!

Tom Druga
Group: S-Trains Message: 19488 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: DOBBS do-it
Gerry:
Thank goodness that most people on this list know who Rube Goldberg was and
dispensed with your suggestion that I was making a slur against Jews.
Answer one issue, get caught up in another. Isn't that just Murphy's Law?
Whoops, there go the Irish!

No, my issue here was about poor practice and suggesting same to someone who
admitted to not being comfortable doing electrical repairs. BTW, I never
called Ted Walton a "cluts" (actually, klutz. It's Yiddish). And I am not
disparaging his abilities. But electricity is an area which many people
feel more comfortable leaving to pros. If they feel that way, then, by
default, they are correct. Electrical work requires knowledge and
confidence, working together. You may know how something is done, but feel
unsure about doing it. That was Ted's concern. Or, you may have your own
ideas about how to do a job, based on general electrical and mechanical
knowledge and feel so supremely confident that you will go ahead with it and
even recommend it to others. That's what category this particular Dobbs
Do-It falls under, I believe.

The need to have something "restored" to "original" condition simply cannot
outweigh good practices motivated by professional responsibility,
particularly when it comes to line voltage applications. Tom Jarcho has
pointed out some of the limitations of epoxy. He also underscored something
I said, which was that old plugs do not get rebuilt, they get thrown away.

Does this mean that your repair will not work. No, it doesn't. In fact, it
may work very well. And as long as you own it and operate it, it will be
fine. And the day it goes bad, you will notice it and do it over and make
it good again. But you can't sell it to the general public, or give
directions on doing it to people who have already made statements regarding
their own electrical limitations. That is bad practice because it will lead
to misunderstanding and to eventual product failure under load.

I repeat: electricity is not a hobby.

I hope that this is now clear to all concerned. Let's put away the
invective and stick with the issues. The issue here is safety while
utilizing 120 volts A.C. at 20 amps or so. I vote solidly against this plug
rebuilding idea as a project to promulgate to others. And that's all. No
slurs to anybody.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19489 From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Timko's vs SnS Conv Motors ?
Hello All

Has anyone compared the Timko vs the SnS AF conversion DC motors. If so
what are the pros & cons if any ?

Thanks AL

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19490 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Video question
In a message dated 05/10/2002 1:32:01 AM Mountain Daylight Time, Huber25
writes:


> Hi, Gang.
>
> What is "S-Gauge Model Railroading"? I'd be interested in seeing it myself.
>
> Thanks,
> Roger Huber

Roger,

"S-Gauge Model Railroading" is a series of videos (4 volumes so far) of
nothing but S-Gauge layouts, clubs, collections, construction tips, etc. etc.

They are produced by myself and my partner Sam (S-'n-S Trains) They cover a
broad range from Mass. to Idaho, Scale and hi-rail. They have been selling
for $13 so far but costs of tapes (studio quality 3M) and postage will
probably up that to $14 for Vol. V. We still have copies of all volumes in
stock if you want any.

Thanks for your inquiry....Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19491 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: responsibility
I'd like to take a point Chris made and circle it around to connect up with
something else we were discussing a week or so ago.

Each of us has no control over who will eventually end up with our trains
after we are gone. Therefore, we should not create unsafe conditions that
might endanger a future operator.

Many of us feel that we want to continue the tradition of American Flyer
trains for future generations -- we feel that we are preserving and
protecting a wonderful legacy.

Some of us convert our locomotives to DC and eliminate the reverse units.
Some of us install can motors. I think that if we make such modifications,
we should preserve the discarded parts so that a future owner would have
the same choices we had.

Therefore, I suggest that if one makes major modifications, one should
preserve the discarded parts with the piece they came from. I always put
them in a baggie and put them inside the tender or tape them up inside the
diesel body. I think this should become a standard practice amoing us.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19492 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Rube Goldberg
Try this: http://www.rube-goldberg.com/

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19493 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Re: Rube Goldberg
It has finally come down to this. Please refrain from using the "T" word as
those who do not have any will be made to feel less important and would be
offended. We must strike all references to these national treasures for
fear of offending. It is of course alright to whisper the word when talking
to your immediate family. You never know whom you can trust. Please rip
you pins and patches from your jackets and turn in your license plates. We
must become more diversified and more considerate of others. I don't
believe we use the term Apple pie any longer as well. A little ranting is
good for the heart.
Ken



-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Zizzo [mailto:busyboy@...]
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 12:39 PM
To: slist
Cc: grdobbs@...; anormal1@...
Subject: [S-Trains] Rube Goldberg


Try this: http://www.rube-goldberg.com/

Chris Zizzo



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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



+

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 19494 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Re: responsibility
Hi,

I agree with Tom. I convert all my steamers to DC and remove, or at least disconnect, the reverse units. But when something better comes along, or I grow tired of the same old trains and I want to sell a steam loco, I restore it first. Why not? Pass it on in the same or better condition as found. Do the next gen a favor, promote the hobby, and it will bring a better sale price on EBAY. There, I said the 'E-word' :) :)

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: jarcho@...
To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 11:43 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] responsibility


I'd like to take a point Chris made and circle it around to connect up with
something else we were discussing a week or so ago.

Each of us has no control over who will eventually end up with our trains
after we are gone. Therefore, we should not create unsafe conditions that
might endanger a future operator.

Many of us feel that we want to continue the tradition of American Flyer
trains for future generations -- we feel that we are preserving and
protecting a wonderful legacy.

Some of us convert our locomotives to DC and eliminate the reverse units.
Some of us install can motors. I think that if we make such modifications,
we should preserve the discarded parts so that a future owner would have
the same choices we had.

Therefore, I suggest that if one makes major modifications, one should
preserve the discarded parts with the piece they came from. I always put
them in a baggie and put them inside the tender or tape them up inside the
diesel body. I think this should become a standard practice amoing us.

Tom Jarcho



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19495 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Clouds
http://www.tttrains.com/tips/clouds.htm#stencils

Jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th!
http://shopping.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19496 From: Doug Peck Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Re: MTH pulleys
We've had a BIG response to the announcement of the MTH pulley availability.
They are now in stock, at $6.95 ppd (postpaid assumes that's the only item
you want at the time.......otherwise, $5.95 as part of a larger order, plus
normal shipping).

For those of you who have inquired, we will not charge and ship until you
advise.
For those who gave a definite "YES" in yourn original email, we will proceed
and charge/ship immediately.

If you haven't already seen it, please visit Carl Tuveson's site for
excellent installation instructions!
http://www.tuveson.com/Newpulley/new_coal_loader_pulley.htm

BTW---we also now have our exclusive NYNH&H wood reefers in stock. Visit our
own website for a color image. We're now shipping.

Thanks.....

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST weeknights.
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please.)
Website: www.portlines.com
E-mail: doug@...
VISA--MASTERCARD--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19497 From: srgriggs Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Re: View from above
A.C. Gilbert Factory Complex, Blatchley and Peck Streets, New Haven
Connecticut.



http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.asp?S=10&T=1&X=3379&Y=228
80&Z=18&W=0


http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.asp?S=10&T=1&X=3379&Y=228
79&Z=18&W=0
Group: S-Trains Message: 19498 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, May 12, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19499 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: Re: Timko's vs SnS Conv Motors ?
I can give you my take on the Timko Motors. They are 27.95. They come with a
flywheel. They are very easy to install. I have run one in My 302 and my 336
and both have much greater pulling power. Both have excellent slow speed. The
flywheel gives a very smooth start and a small amount of coast when power is
shut off. They are NOT noticable any more than the regular flyer motor. I
believe in these motors so much I am now helping Frank Timko Sell them. I
sell an average of 15 to 20 at each GATS show I have done. The first day of
this S Spree we sold 30 motors.
He is almost finished with a prototype can motor for the PA engines. They
will drop into place and be screwed in with the 2 original screws and an
addition of two more holes. No bushing of anything will be needed. Cost is
undetermined at this time.
Hope this helps. Chris
Group: S-Trains Message: 19500 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 5/10/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Hi all, just home from Spree and talked with Roger Carp. I have asked him to
put the CTT survey online so that all S-gaugers could access it . Since a lot
of us don't ever see the survey because we don't subscribe. CTT circ is
70,000 according to Roger. I have been able to get him 3 leads on articles
already. Help me keep it going guys. Thanks Chris
Group: S-Trains Message: 19501 From: Bill Lane Date: 5/11/2002
Subject: S Scale at the PRR T & HS convention
Hi All,

As Jamie mentioned, here is my display of S Scale at the PRR T &HS
convention last week. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/PRR2002.jpg I
had a full freight and small passenger train. All of the S Scale brass
builders were represented. There were quite a few people down on their knees
looking at the models. I passed out flyers and order forms for the Pennsy S
Models X-29 project www.pennysmodels.com and for the River Raisin J-1
project http://riverraisinmodels.com Thanks to all who stopped by to discuss
modeling the Mighty Pennsy in (what I think is) the best scale.

Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 19502 From: Steve Blancard Date: 5/11/2002
Subject: ON30 caboose converted to S
I just finished converting a Bachmann ON30 bobber caboose to S using SHS
trucks and couplers. I just uploaded 2 photos to the files section.

Take a look here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Bachmann%20ON30%20Conversion/

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 19503 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/11/2002
Subject: Re: ON30 caboose converted to S
Very nice looking conversion, Steve. BTW, does your use of roller
bearing trucks on this project mean that you're subconsciously
a "modern guy" ? ;^)

Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19504 From: bassflyer Date: 5/11/2002
Subject: Re: "Modern Guy" On30 conversion....
I don't know about Steve,...but,..I LOVE my Flyer,...however, the SHS
trucks sure look great on my On30 caboose conversion!! Much better
then the Flyer trucks,..also due to the fact that the caboose is so
short.

Rick :-)
Group: S-Trains Message: 19505 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 5/11/2002
Subject: 15%
That is a very high percentage of readers of CTT.
Every Hobby Shop says we are a dead gauge. AF never
had half of the market to begin with. If they had 30%
of the market, then 15% today for a dead gauge is
unbelievable. Jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19506 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 5/12/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] brass 70 tonner
Hi all:
I was in touch with Rich Yoder about the 70 tonner a few weeks ago when
he mentioned puilding about 80 scale and 80 hirail units in S. As Greg
mentions below (and the pictures of the 70 tonner look great), are we
going to support this project?? How many Scale and High rail S gaugers
would be intersted in such a brass model??? Please make comments to the
appropriate lists, as I haven't seen any comments except for Greg's.
Thanks.
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)

gelems@... wrote:

>For a look at Richard Yoder's offerings, go to his web site.
>
>http://www.richyodermodels.com
>
>Question, do we want to divide an already small market or support
>one. It is my understanding the the scale drive for the trainmaster
>has been put on hold since the gentleman that was going to do it
>has some health issues. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm one
>of the individuals that is willing to pay for the scale trainmaster
>chassis and want one. I think we would do well to support Richard.
>He has already delivered the goods in O on a small engine and
>freight cars. Really, I would rather have a brass 70 tonner than a
>plastic one if they were the same price, just MHO.
>
>Greg Elems
>Reno, NV
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19507 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 5/12/2002
Subject: Apology
Hi all:
Those misspelled (well, actually typos) words should be "building" and
"interested" instead of "puilding" and "intersted" in my e-mails about
the 70 tonner. My apologies as I usually read my e-mails before I send
them and would have caught them, but didn't on this one!
Rance Velapoldi
Group: S-Trains Message: 19508 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 5/12/2002
Subject: Re: Rube Goldberg
What's the "T" word?

I hope its not "Trains"
Tom D.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stoudt,Kenneth R." <STOUDTKR@...>
To: "'Chris Zizzo'" <busyboy@...>; "slist"
<s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <grdobbs@...>; <anormal1@...>
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 1:26 PM
Subject: RE: [S-Trains] Rube Goldberg


> It has finally come down to this. Please refrain from using the "T" word
as
> those who do not have any will be made to feel less important and would be
> offended. We must strike all references to these national treasures for
> fear of offending. It is of course alright to whisper the word when
talking
> to your immediate family. You never know whom you can trust. Please rip
> you pins and patches from your jackets and turn in your license plates.
We
> must become more diversified and more considerate of others. I don't
> believe we use the term Apple pie any longer as well. A little ranting is
> good for the heart.
> Ken
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Zizzo [mailto:busyboy@...]
> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 12:39 PM
> To: slist
> Cc: grdobbs@...; anormal1@...
> Subject: [S-Trains] Rube Goldberg
>
>
> Try this: http://www.rube-goldberg.com/
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> +
>
> +
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19509 From: Steve Blancard Date: 5/12/2002
Subject: Re: ON30 caboose converted to S
If I squint real hard they look old style to me ;o)

Steve

jahoozdumm wrote:

> Very nice looking conversion, Steve. BTW, does your use of roller
> bearing trucks on this project mean that you're subconsciously
> a "modern guy" ? ;^)
>
> Chuck F.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19510 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/12/2002
Subject: "T" word
In Boston "T" would be reference to the subway system. MBTA
Roger Hinds

Thomas@... wrote:

> What's the "T" word?
>
> I hope its not "Trains"
> Tom D.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stoudt,Kenneth R." <STOUDTKR@...>
> To: "'Chris Zizzo'" <busyboy@...>; "slist"
> <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Cc: <grdobbs@...>; <anormal1@...>
> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 1:26 PM
> Subject: RE: [S-Trains] Rube Goldberg
>
> > It has finally come down to this. Please refrain from using the "T" word
> as
> > those who do not have any will be made to feel less important and would be
> > offended. We must strike all references to these national treasures for
> > fear of offending. It is of course alright to whisper the word when
> talking
> > to your immediate family. You never know whom you can trust. Please rip
> > you pins and patches from your jackets and turn in your license plates.
> We
> > must become more diversified and more considerate of others. I don't
> > believe we use the term Apple pie any longer as well. A little ranting is
> > good for the heart.
> > Ken
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Chris Zizzo [mailto:busyboy@...]
> > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 12:39 PM
> > To: slist
> > Cc: grdobbs@...; anormal1@...
> > Subject: [S-Trains] Rube Goldberg
> >
> >
> > Try this: http://www.rube-goldberg.com/
> >
> > Chris Zizzo
> >
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> > +
> >
> > +
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19511 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/12/2002
Subject: Re: Rube Goldberg
I hope it's not 'tinplate'!

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas@...
To: 'Chris Zizzo' ; slist ; Stoudt,Kenneth R.
Cc: grdobbs@... ; anormal1@...
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Rube Goldberg


What's the "T" word?

I hope its not "Trains"
Tom D.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stoudt,Kenneth R." <STOUDTKR@...>
To: "'Chris Zizzo'" <busyboy@...>; "slist"
<s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <grdobbs@...>; <anormal1@...>
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 1:26 PM
Subject: RE: [S-Trains] Rube Goldberg


> It has finally come down to this. Please refrain from using the "T" word
as
> those who do not have any will be made to feel less important and would be
> offended. We must strike all references to these national treasures for
> fear of offending. It is of course alright to whisper the word when
talking
> to your immediate family. You never know whom you can trust. Please rip
> you pins and patches from your jackets and turn in your license plates.
We
> must become more diversified and more considerate of others. I don't
> believe we use the term Apple pie any longer as well. A little ranting is
> good for the heart.
> Ken
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Zizzo [mailto:busyboy@...]
> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 12:39 PM
> To: slist
> Cc: grdobbs@...; anormal1@...
> Subject: [S-Trains] Rube Goldberg
>
>
> Try this: http://www.rube-goldberg.com/
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> +
>
> +
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19512 From: John Foley Date: 5/12/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] brass 70 tonner
Hi Rance
I took some photos of Rich Yoder's 70 tonner
to the S-Spree. I received about 30 positive responses,
in that I mean they would buy at least one. One fellow
said he could use two. I am glad you posted that Rich
will do both Hi-rail & scale, as many of the folks I talked
with asked that same question.
John


At 01:29 PM 5/12/02 +0200, Rance and Bente Velapoldi wrote:
>Hi all:
>I was in touch with Rich Yoder about the 70 tonner a few weeks ago when
>he mentioned puilding about 80 scale and 80 hirail units in S. As Greg
>mentions below (and the pictures of the 70 tonner look great), are we
>going to support this project?? How many Scale and High rail S gaugers
>would be intersted in such a brass model??? Please make comments to the
>appropriate lists, as I haven't seen any comments except for Greg's.
> Thanks.
>Rance Velapoldi (Norway)
>
>gelems@... wrote:
>
> >For a look at Richard Yoder's offerings, go to his web site.
> >
> >http://www.richyodermodels.com
> >
> >Question, do we want to divide an already small market or support
> >one. It is my understanding the the scale drive for the trainmaster
> >has been put on hold since the gentleman that was going to do it
> >has some health issues. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm one
> >of the individuals that is willing to pay for the scale trainmaster
> >chassis and want one. I think we would do well to support Richard.
> >He has already delivered the goods in O on a small engine and
> >freight cars. Really, I would rather have a brass 70 tonner than a
> >plastic one if they were the same price, just MHO.
> >
> >Greg Elems
> >Reno, NV
> >
>
>
>
>To see or post Photos visit
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
>or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
>To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19513 From: David Dewey Date: 5/12/2002
Subject: Re: Rube Goldberg
Tom,
AAAUGH!!! You even WROTE the T word!!! For SHAME!!!!
Now go eat 10 veggie burgers and say three "Ooohms" for attrition (or is
three burgers and ten. . . .)
S'
David D.
PS No insults to anyone is intended in this post.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19514 From: John Foley Date: 5/12/2002
Subject: GE 70 Tonner
Hi Folks
I spoke with Rich Yoder about the 70 Tonner.
He is interested in producing it in S. First he
needs some feedback. So if you are interested
please let Rich know by email. Let him know if
you want Scale or Hirail and if you need more
then one. If enough Hirail versions are needed
he will look into that. As far as questions feel free.

So email Rich at oscale48@...

Thanks
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 19515 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/12/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, May 12, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19516 From: Wayne and Alice Beachy Date: 5/12/2002
Subject: RapidRail update
Hey everyone,

I have added a new item to the RapidRail Trains line. It is show on my web page at http://rapidrail.homestead.com/welcome.html Just click on the Branford Inspection shed button.

Wayne Beachy
RapidRail Trains


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19517 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/12/2002
Subject: Re: ON30 caboose converted to S
Steve wrote:

>If I squint real hard they look old style to me ;o)


You're gonna get some nasty headaches squinting that hard! LOL!


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19518 From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR Date: 5/13/2002
Subject: Articles in Magazines
Hi All

I see a lot of potential articles for CTT, such as the ON30 caboose
converted to S., Converting a Steam Engine to a Can Motor, And how about
Carl Tuveson great instructions for replacing the pulley on the
MTH Coal loader, or his replacement DC can motor for Flyer Steam Engines.
SnS 's conversion motor,
or some of the great tips from Tom Jarcho and others. Just name a few.
With this day and age of Digital Cameras and Computors some you guys
have great wieb sites with a wealth of information on them. If I was not
on this list and getting all this feed back for tips etc.. I know would
appreciate any info I could get from any magazines articles.

AL

<<<Dick Karnes Wrote>> Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 13:45:38 -0700
From: nasglibrary <nasglibrary@...> Subject: Articles in
Magazines

All --

As a member of S-Scale and a lurker on S-Trains, I feel that I must
comment on a current thread on both e-lists: Lack of S articles in the
model press.
The only way to counter this is to WRITE them. Magazines can't print
what they don't have. They depend on submissions from their readers. And
they pay for those that they accept (except the S Gaugian). That
alone should be a big incentive.
What's that, you say? Don't magazines have staffers who are paid to
write articles? Well, as an ex-editor, I can tell you that mag staffers
don't have the time for this. They are too busy with editing, planning,
circulation, and advertising to write more than editorials and maybe an
article a year based on their own personal niches. In either case, make
your fingers dance on your keyboards and write
something!!

Dick Karnes

________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19519 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 5/13/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] S 70 tonner
I guess that is the problem when someone is developing something but
tells no-one. I saw the e-mail about Rich Yoder's 70 tonner, and
contacted him to show an interest. I basically told him I would be
interested in buying one (hi-rail), so 1) I feel committed to Yoder's,
and 2) there probably isn't enough interest to develop three of the same
thing so possibly none will get done. I realize that many of the
production projects are labors of love, and if a person announces it and
then has some setbacks in production, people expecting products on time
get uptight (and are somewhat less than friendly or understanding!), so
I can see where someone might not want to say anything about developing
an engine. On the other hand, not saying something can create the
situation we have now with the 70 tonner. Too Bad.
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)

Lawrence Jackman wrote:

>How far along is he? I have seen some of it.
>Thank you
>Larry Jacman
>
>gelems@... wrote:
>
>>So we have 3 possible 70 tonners and none really committed for the market? How
>>far along is he? Rich has the drawings and is preceding with the O scale version
>>and probably has an inside track to get the S version moving. I hope this doesn't
>>torpedo the 70 tonner project so we have none. Also, will it be plastic or brass?
>>
>>Greg Elems
>>Reno, NV
>>
>>On 12 May 2002 at 16:46, Lawrence Jackman wrote:
>>
>>>Gentlemen:
>>>This was not supposed to be known but there is a person in Mississippi
>>>that is doing a 70 toner in S scale But because of all this talk he has
>>>asked me to make it known. He does not need your money. He had hoped to
>>>have a sample at NMRA in July but he is a little bit behind schedule.
>>>This is all he is allowing to be said.
>>>Thank you
>>>Larry Jackman
>>>
>>>John Foley wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi Folks
>>>> I spoke with Rich Yoder about the 70 Tonner.
>>>>He is interested in producing it in S. First he
>>>>needs some feedback. So if you are interested
>>>>
>>>To see or post Photos visit
>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
>>>or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
>>>To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...
>>>
>>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>To see or post Photos visit
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
>>or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
>>To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...
>>
>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>
>To see or post Photos visit
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
>or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
>To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19520 From: bassflyer Date: 5/13/2002
Subject: Tony Koester's "S" article in MR
Just picked up a free Feb. 2002 issue of MODEL RAILROADER, and was
suprized to see Tony Koester's commentary on "S" gauge! "A Sensible
Size" was the title. Anyone see this?
He speaks of the clinic he gave in Scranton for the NASG convention
last year, and what he saw there that was available in "S", if he
were to model his favorite prototype in "S".
He even gives info on how to contact NASG at the end of his
commentary. Also the commentary included a pic of Mike Fyten's S-
Scale layout, (from Aug. 2001 MR) and Steve Anderson's Sn3 layout
(Feb. 2000 MR).
WoW!! A good plug for "S"!! Now, if CTT would take a couple of
notes.....

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19521 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/13/2002
Subject: articles in magazines
This is one of those rare list threads wnich may result in some good being
done, but let's look at the situation square and straight up.

That's a pretty impressive list of S contributors to CTT, but ask yourself,
how many of them (us) are still writing for CTT? Answer: Not many. it
certainly wasn't a satisfactory experience for me. Doubt it was for the
others, either. Two reasons.

1. CTT is published by Kalmbach. Very nice people by all accounts. But
their institutional viewpoint is that toy trains are an offshoot of real
scale model railroading as described in Model Railroader.( Of course, the
truth is that it's the other way around!) Therefore CTT is a stepchild,
not a birth baby. They think that a lower common denominator applies to
their CTT readership than to their MR fans. Thus they are caught in their
own wierd dichotomy. They publish Model Railroader, in which most of the
articles are probably too technical for most of their readership, and CTT,
in which most of the articles are not technical enough.

CTT's LCD philosophy is best expressed in what they tell potential authors.
They want the photos to tell the story, and have the text support the
photos. I have more respect for the written word than that. If a picture
is worth a thousand words, the reverse is also true. Therefore, unless
they alter the philosophy underlying the publication, what you are going to
get is a bunch of pretty pictures of S gauge trains alongside the pretty
pictures of O gauge ones.

Commercial magazines are advertiser driven. CTT's biggest advertisers are
manufacturers of new O gauge products. The fact that a large proportion of
what these companies produce is cheap junk doesn't seem to bother CTT. A
hard truth, but there it is. Not that much new O stuff has come into my
shop, since a lot can be sent back to the factory when it dies, but the
LTI, Williams,, K-line, etc., pieces I have fixed were of worse than poor
quality. If you submitted an article on the new repro accessories and all
the problems with them that have been reported on this list ("This puppy's
going on ebay!"), they would never print it.

Perhaps a more telling statistic than the % of readership into S is the
fact that there are only two major manufacturers of new equipment in our
gauge, and their advertising budgets are necessarily smaller than the O
manufacturers'. If they published a lot of material that made S look good,
their meal tickets might get pissed off! The quality of SHS and AM
products is much higher than that of most new O gauge, too!

CTT clings rigidly to other points of view as well. For instance, that it
is necessary to build a permanent layout to enjoy toy trains. Now THAT one
started with Lionel and Flyer back in the day, and it's just as untrue now
as it was then. I submitted an article on operating Flyer AND Lionel floor
layouts that included the phrase, "Why chain yourself for life to a
multi-hundred pound wood and plaster monstrosity? Run 'em on the floor!"
This article didn't stand a chance. They said that they had too much
material on that subject. I have only seen one article on this topic in
that mag since then. Of course, I don't subscribe, so may have missed a
few.

2. They don't pay enough for top quality material. At least they didn't
when I wrote for them. Sure, you can submit a few nice snaps and happy
phrases about your trains, and if they like them, they will send you a few
bucks. But if you write about repairing and restoring trains, which is
what I do, a tremendous amount of work is involved. For example, for my
article on smoke units (May 1994), I had to completely disassemble two
different types of smoke units, rebuild them, and -prepare and photograph
each step. After the photographic expenses were deducted, my compensation
came to somewhere between 65 and 75 cents per hour.

Hey, I have a philosophy too! I was and am interested in influencing the
hobby toward operating and away from shelf potato collecting. I think
those trains are much more valuable if they are being run. And i like the
old stuff a lot better than the new stuff. So i learned the hard way to
publish my writing in S Gaugian, where I can say what I think and have it
appreciated by a readership that shares my interest. There isn't much
difference between 65 cents/hr and a free subscription to an interesting
mag.

NOW HERE'S THE GOOD PART: I think things may be changing over there,
finally. After years of disarray, Roger and Neil. who are much more
competent and committed than what they had before, seem to have raised the
standards and shown some interest in what we do. Now may be the time to
give CTT another shot and see how they handle it.

Regardless of whether you submit material to CTT or S Gaugian, or post it
on the list, writing about and photographing what you do in S can only help
us all.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19522 From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR Date: 5/13/2002
Subject: Hoquat PCC
Hi All

I have a Hoquat PCC with an Eagel 1 PHM drive in it. Does anyone have any
infomation on Hoquat Hobbies and this PCC shell. Right now is unpainted
and undetailed except for a tolley pole.

Thanks AL

________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19523 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 5/13/2002
Subject: CTT
Hey gang-
I got a reply from Roger Carp about my beefs with CTT
in general (like, too much new product-izzit classic
the day it hits the shelf??) and S coverage. Got a
nice reply about gauge demographics, and he was going
to the S-pree. I replied to that and offered my layout
for CTT coverage when it's finished (0 and S, two
loops of each). In turn, Roger replied that the S-pree
was fun, he had no idea how many Essers there were, or
how much S product that there was. Oh, yes, and if
you'd send some photos?? OK-I will-and you get 'em
first. Now I'm getting fired up-the track is all laid
and wired, the buildings are all built and wired, the
accessories have all been cleaned and tested-now comes
the hard part-mountain/tunnels, town layout, streets,
trees and grass, grass, grass-oh yeah, and that
"little" water feature (river mouth or bay) that's
going to justify 2 bascule, 2 arch under, 1 arch over
and 1 tressle bridge. Sheesh-me and my big mouth.
BTW-I scored a L 0-27 Dreyfuss (#221) minus it's
innards at the Lyndon train show Saturday. Antone have
any ideas on converting it to a Flyer Hudson or
Pacific chassis?? It's a cute lil bugger, "close
enough" to S size, and would look nifty pulling a Marx
NYC streamliner set that I re-trucked to Gilbert
knuckle awhile back.-John Marganski

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19524 From: The Reis's Date: 5/13/2002
Subject: AF LTI PA1 ABA set on ebay
I listed my set of Northern Pacific PA1's on Ebay


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1730049828



These are the Lionel-Flyer engines from 1992.

The Powered A unit is a dual can motor version and is very powerful. There
is a Dummy B and a Unpowered A with horn

These are mint in the Box.

I have included 2 of the Now Rare Lionel sound control Boxes.


I listed this all for $300, The engines alone are listed at $360 in
Greenburgs.


If you buy it and mention this list I will pay all shipping with insurance.


Thanks for looking

Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19525 From: Robert Jackson Date: 5/13/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] S 70 tonner
Rance and Bente Velapoldi wrote:

> <snip> can create the situation we have now with the 70 tonner. Too Bad.
> Rance Velapoldi (Norway)

The situation we have now is that there is manufacturer of known skills, known
productivity, identified to us, and with a defined interest in producing a set number
(hirail and scale) of S scale 70 tonner locomotives. There is also said to be another
manufacturer, unindentified, of unknown skills, unknown commitment, who has an unknown
degree of development in an S scale 70 tonner. I personally have no difficulty in
making a choice between these two possibilities. I am in the process of determining how
well a 70 tonner fits into my scheme of things. If it does, I will be contacting Mr.
Yoder.
Bob Jackson
Group: S-Trains Message: 19526 From: Clifford Manning Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: parts
Does anyone make a replacement part for XA 15A426-RP - Body and Door
Assembly for the 25060 Coal Dump Car.

If not, does anyone have a suggestion as to repair of the joint where
the catch gear worjs the body.

Clifford Manning
clifma19@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 19527 From: Clifford Manning Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Parts
(Sorry, I will try again.)
Does anyone make a replacement part for XA 15A426-RP - Body and Door
Assembly for the 25060 Coal Dump Car.

If not, does anyone have a suggestion as to repair of the joint where
the catch gear works the body.

Clifford Manning
clifma19@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 19528 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Spree car
I say let club members buy any if they want them at the price Don is offering
and send the rest back. This would be a great opportunity for the members to
get a few extra cars at cost. They could be weathered to hide the mistake.
This will sure make the prototype car we have go for more on e-bay.

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Trainnut,
Chris






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19529 From: nasglibrary Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: TRom Jarcho on CTT articles
All --

I just finished reading Tom Jarcho's message on "articles in magazines,"
in which he complains about CTT's article policies and payments.

Cogent letter, full of good, detailed reasoning. But you have to do it
the way CTT wants. Over time, given more and more S-specific
contributions, you as a community will have an increasing influence on
CTT.

Bottom line: You can't have it both ways. Complaining about lack of S
articles while at the same time refusing to submit articles is
inconsistent and unfair.

A final thought: 75 cents and hour is better than zero. But whoever
thinks that he can net a significant amount of money from magazine
articles (even at $75 per page that RMC pays me) is just fantasizing.
Nevertheless I'll take it. It helps pay for my hotel at NASG
conventions. You can't do that on the three free issues you get from
Gaugian articles...

Dick Karnes
Group: S-Trains Message: 19530 From: bassflyer Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Re: Tom Jarcho on CTT articles
Dick Karnes wrote:
**(( Bottom line: You can't have it both ways. Complaining about
lack of S articles while at the same time refusing to submit articles
is inconsistent and unfair.))**

However,...in the past, it seems that many have contributed
articles that were never used,...some were even paid for an article,
(ask David Dewey), but were never printed.
How many times do ya bang your head againest a wall before you
realize it hurts?? I can easily see contributers just giving up!
I have been wanting to, and some day will, like to write an
article on small, and I mean small layouts. Like Tom J. said,..you
don't need a big fancy-smancy layout to to run and have fun with
trains!!
One's own time is precious,...but the more articles one submits,
the more chance of one being printed,...but finding that fine line of
when to give up.

Gosh,..at $75 a page,..we would ALL turn into writers!!


Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19531 From: Clifford Manning Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: train set
At a garage sale my daughter found a 21058 in better than average
condition which I bought. Did it come in a set? It had no original
paper or boxes but looks to be all there. Any information would be
appreciated.

Clifford Manning
Topeka, Ks
Group: S-Trains Message: 19532 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Re: train set
Are you sure it isn't A 21085? Came in many sets....Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clifford Manning" <clifma19@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 5:06 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] train set


> At a garage sale my daughter found a 21058 in better than average
> condition which I bought. Did it come in a set? It had no original
> paper or boxes but looks to be all there. Any information would be
> appreciated.
>
> Clifford Manning
> Topeka, Ks
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19533 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Re: articles in magazines
Tom Jarcho has posted the magic words. "Commercial magazines are
ADVERTISER DRIVEN!" I don't think we'll see a significant increase
in S articles as long as more than 95% of the ads are O gauge
related. You can bet the O people (advertisers) will put pressure on
CTT if they perceive S is getting too big a share of the copy. .
Dick Karnes urged people in his post to WRITE! I agree with
that statement, although writing for publication does take time,
research and some creative talent. Not everyone is cut out to be a
writer.
Next comes a dilemma. Which magazine or publication do you
submit your article to? CTT, MR, RMC, TCA Quarterly, TTOS Bulletin,
NASG Dispatch, S Gaugian? CTT, MR, or RMC would give your article
a larger audience but your chances of being published are probably
better with the NASG or the S Gaugian. The whole idea is to promote
S. If CTT is going to pigeonhole articles, what's the difference if
you get paid? Sure, you have 75 bucks but nobody sees the article.
The S Gaugian has been there for 40 years. Not submitting to them
because you don't get paid? C'mon!

Jim Duncan
Group: S-Trains Message: 19534 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: AF Switches
Hello All. Can anyone tell me if American Flyer made a switch that
was a combination of the 720A remote control switch and the Manual
switch? I appear to have switches that have the 4 terminal posts and
also the manual lever for switching. Thanks in advance for the
help,John.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19535 From: David Dewey Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Re: articles in magazines
Hi all,
Just thought you might find this tid-bit interesting.
The article that CTT bought and never published was one I had submitted
to S Gaugian and had been declined by Susan as "We have too much of this
already"!!
Ironic, ain't it?
So submitting to the S only mags doesn't necessarily mean you'll get
printed!
Gotta go work on the pipe organ, later!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19536 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Re: articles in magazines
--- In S-Trains@y..., "David Dewey" <djdewey@c...> wrote:
> Hi all,
> Just thought you might find this tid-bit interesting.
> The article that CTT bought and never published was one I had
submitted
> to S Gaugian and had been declined by Susan as "We have too much of
this
> already"!!
> Ironic, ain't it?
> So submitting to the S only mags doesn't necessarily mean
you'll get
> printed!
> Gotta go work on the pipe organ, later!
> S'
> David D.

Simple? Solution.Lets start an S-List Magazine,John.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19537 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains
group.

File : /A.C.GilbertFactory.jpg
Uploaded by : srgriggs <sgriggs@...>
Description : Aerial View -- A.C. Gilbert Factory Complex, New Haven, CT. Circa 1991 from Microsoft Terraserver website.

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/A.C.GilbertFactory.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

srgriggs <sgriggs@...>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19538 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Re: AF Switches
Do you mean this one, maybe?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1730251322

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: hcopter52
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 5:21 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] AF Switches


Hello All. Can anyone tell me if American Flyer made a switch that
was a combination of the 720A remote control switch and the Manual
switch? I appear to have switches that have the 4 terminal posts and
also the manual lever for switching. Thanks in advance for the
help,John.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19539 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Nice aerial view. Here's a link to a ground-level view:

http://home.att.net/~timboy/Gilbert.html

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 6:39 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] New file uploaded to S-Trains



Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains
group.

File : /A.C.GilbertFactory.jpg
Uploaded by : srgriggs <sgriggs@...>
Description : Aerial View -- A.C. Gilbert Factory Complex, New Haven, CT. Circa 1991 from Microsoft Terraserver website.

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/A.C.GilbertFactory.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

srgriggs <sgriggs@...>






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19540 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Re: articles in magazines
John,
How 'bout writing for the Dispatch !!!! Then ask to sell the Dispatch to
non-membership to at least cover the extra printed copies and cost of
delivery. This might be tried by making a small overrun and inset
"Non-member Offer $2.25"They might be in a hobby shop rack at $2.25 which
the shop keeps. Local area NASG folks place the copies as an effort of
their area "S" awareness, and get a token donation from the
shop,----Yes???? Just a thought.

On Tue, 14 May 2002 21:34:58 -0000 "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
writes:
> --- In S-Trains@y..., "David Dewey" <djdewey@c...> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > Just thought you might find this tid-bit interesting.
> > The article that CTT bought and never published was one I had
> submitted
> > to S Gaugian and had been declined by Susan as "We have too much
> of
> this
> > already"!!
> > Ironic, ain't it?
> > So submitting to the S only mags doesn't necessarily mean
> you'll get
> > printed!
> > Gotta go work on the pipe organ, later!
> > S'
> > David D.
>
> Simple? Solution.Lets start an S-List Magazine,John.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19541 From: David Dewey Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Re: AF Switches
Switches that have the sliding manual control and the terminal posts are
just standard 720 switches--you sometimes need the manual control to "fix"
things!
The auction Tim linked to is funny!! That is NOT an early control box, but
the very late 5-digit "cheapy."
Speaking of switches I've got to finish my column and get it to Jeff!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19542 From: roy inman Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Re: Tom Jarcho on CTT articles
Well, I'll tell you when you "stop beating your head against the wall:"
When you're dead.
As a freelance photographer and sometimes writer, I can testify that it
takes many, many, many submissions to score a published piece-50 trys is
not uncommon. There are exceptions, but read the bios of famous writers.
Leon Uris, for instance, submitted the manuscript for Exodus 27 times before
any interest was shown. The list goes on and on.
But I would humbly suggest to follow the advise of Harry Truman: "If you
can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."
And, I might add, your contribution to the hobby might be in a different
direction. We all have our callings :)
With kind regards,]
Roy Inman

> From: "bassflyer" <comic@...>
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 18:36:59 -0000
> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Tom Jarcho on CTT articles
>
> Dick Karnes wrote:
> **(( Bottom line: You can't have it both ways. Complaining about
> lack of S articles while at the same time refusing to submit articles
> is inconsistent and unfair.))**
>
> However,...in the past, it seems that many have contributed
> articles that were never used,...some were even paid for an article,
> (ask David Dewey), but were never printed.
> How many times do ya bang your head againest a wall before you
> realize it hurts?? I can easily see contributers just giving up!
> I have been wanting to, and some day will, like to write an
> article on small, and I mean small layouts. Like Tom J. said,..you
> don't need a big fancy-smancy layout to to run and have fun with
> trains!!
> One's own time is precious,...but the more articles one submits,
> the more chance of one being printed,...but finding that fine line of
> when to give up.
>
> Gosh,..at $75 a page,..we would ALL turn into writers!!
>
>
> Rick.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19543 From: nyc17819@aol.com Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: BNSF Genetic Testing
According to a news release:

Burlington Northern Santa Fe announced that it had settled with the
U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission over genetic testing it had
conducted on 36 employees without their knowledge or consent related to the
employees' carpal tunnel injury claims. Under terms of the settlement, BNSF
will pay $2.2 million in fines to the EEOC. (for further details: BNSF Corp.)

Chris Harding
Group: S-Trains Message: 19544 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Re: AF Switches
Hi,

Thanks for the correction. I have another 'older' controller I'm listing on eBay soon. I'll try to list this one correctly.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: David Dewey
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com ; Tim Brown
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 9:03 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] AF Switches


Switches that have the sliding manual control and the terminal posts are
just standard 720 switches--you sometimes need the manual control to "fix"
things!
The auction Tim linked to is funny!! That is NOT an early control box, but
the very late 5-digit "cheapy."
Speaking of switches I've got to finish my column and get it to Jeff!
S'
David D.


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All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19545 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Need some help
If anyone out there can help me get in touch with Lamont Heppe of Pasadena
Maryland I would greatly appreciate it. I don't have his email address. A
phone number would be fine too.

Thanks....Steve
Group: S-Trains Message: 19546 From: David Dewey Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Re: AF Switches
Ooops, foot in mouth disease here; sorry Tim!
There are three main versions of AF switch controllers:1) early 720
controllers--the levers do not return to center, but stay "thrown" These can
ONLY be used on the early 720 switches. Use on later switches will burn
out switch coils. They have 4 indicator lights.
2) late 720/720A and 5 digit contorllers--levers are spring-loaded and
return to center. These can be used on all versions of switches. Also have 4
indicator lgiths.
3) Late 5 digit version with no lights and plastic throw levers, also can be
used on all versions of switches.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19547 From: frilen2 Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Lamont Heppe
Hi Steve
There is an F. Lamont Heppe Jr listed in the '98-'99 American Flyer
Collectors Club member directory.
I'll send along the address and phone to your email address...
Hope that helps...
Karl Raab
Group: S-Trains Message: 19548 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 5/14/2002
Subject: Spree car
To everyone. Please excuse me for my post on the Spree car. This e-mail was
supposed to go to the MVSG and I sent it to the wrong address. I'm sure I
will be shot for this goof. Chris the mentally ill trainnut
Group: S-Trains Message: 19549 From: David Dewey Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: Viruses from Yahoo
Boy, I am getting at least one attempt a day to give me a virus from Yahoo,
at least that is the origination listed under the message "properties." Bad
enough we have to put up with the intrusive ads!
Anyone else noticing this?
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19550 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: Re: Viruses from Yahoo
Hi Dave & all,
I get about 10 - 15 letters with attachments from
just about everyone one this list everyday. I have checked with some & their
reply is that they never sent a letter to me. Mike S
PS: I just delete them. I never open a letter with attachment even if I know
the person, unless I check with them to see if they sent it.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19552 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: Spam & Viruses from ???
I am wondering if any of you are getting spam from me.
Someone is bouncing SPAM off of my e-mail address location.
I am contacting my Inrernet Provider to get it stopped.
If any of you have the same problem and got it fixed. Please let me know
how you did it.

Thanks

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 19553 From: Rick Evans Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: Articles, writers, trains,....
I will agree, that "persistence" can apply to anything that one is trying to accomplish.
Writers who are trying to get a book published, have many, many publishers to choose from
I assume. Much like in the music field,..there are many recording companies in which to
try to get signed with.
I would imagine that writers of certain articles, have many different magazines to submit
their work. However,.....CTT, Model Railroader, S-Gaugian, and the NASG Dispatch, seem to be
our only hope. There is also the Sn3 magazine, for the "S" narrow gauge folks. We don't have many
choices, and when one or two magazines turn you down,...pickin's have become pretty slim.
I person who writes for a living, I assume is writing all of the time. Writing-submitting-
writing-submitting. Trains are a hobby for most of us, some make a living or at least a little
extra income from trains. Either way, we like to play with trains, and try to promote "S" Gauge.
Not sure how many of us on the list are trying to make a living writing train articles, but we
do have writers on the list with a passion for trains, and want to share it with others. I myself,
don't really care about making a BIG buck if by chance I ever write and get an article published. Just
the fact to be published would be great.
Like I said,..we don't have many magazines to turn to,...although, I haven't picked up
a "Playboy" in a few years,...anyone know if they are running "Flyer" repair articles lately?? :-)
Hmmmm...I can see the cover now.....!!

O.K. everyone,...grab a pencil or pen, or jump on the computer, and let's get writing!!!


Rick.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19554 From: rfgiardina Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: Virus
The virus is the "Klez" worm.

Go to the Symantic Tech Support Website, and download "Fixklez".

If you got one of the emails, you're probaly infected. Not opening
the attachment dosn't protect you. Once you get the email you start
broadcasting the worm!!!!

Follow the instructions for Fixklez carefully!!!!!!

This is a nasty persistant little worm, don't delay!!!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19555 From: af21115 Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: Re: Viruses from Yahoo
A lot depends on your IP, and what they are doing to filter and
screen e-mails and e-mail attachments. About three weeks ago I got
about 4 from other people on my IP service, and one from a Yahoo s-
list member. They were easy to spot as they always had a 132/K
attachment and tried to launch a web page on opening. Fortunately, I
had my ZoneAlarm on, and WebWasher (Ineffective with AOL unless you
use IE to get to the internet instead of AOL's browser.) on, and the
page would not launch. After the first one, I knew what they were,
and I deleted them and sent a notice to ATT.NET that they were
getting past their E-Mail screener. Since then I've had NONE. ATT has
been very good in this regard. AOL is the worse as my significant
other has not yet dropped them, and each morning she is inundated
with over 75 junk mails in her mailbox, many of which contain either
spyware, or viruses. With ZoneAlarm and WebWasher I get very very
very few ads and no pop-ups, even on Yahoo. It takes some time to get
the URL list straight on WebWasher as many of these snakes use a
string that changes by a few digits or characters for each ad, so if
you try to block one, the next with a slightly different string still
shows up. To get rid of them just take the main part of the string
like http://www.junkads.com/ and put that in the WebWasher URL list
instead of http://www.junkads.com/23884/adload/specials/p. This stops
ANY ads coming from their main site. Some are getting tricky now
though, and using animated movies and such which cannot be stopped
easily. The most persistent spys are Doubleclick and Valueclick.
Thought I had them stopped from installing their spy cookies this
week, but there they appear again UGH! I'll get them yet!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19556 From: af21115 Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: Re: Virus
The only time you can get the Klez virus without opening the mail is
if you use Microsoft Outlook or Outlook Express, and the infected
mail was received in that mailbox. This can be stopped in some
instances by disabling the Preview feature. Its also not supposed to
spread from your PC if you have no addresses in Microsoft Outlook or
Outlook Express address book, as it uses a loophole in the Microsoft
Outlook or Outlook Express software to access the address book and
send itself to anyone listed therein. Some small IP services may
behave like Microsoft Outlook or Outlook Express, so those users
would need to be alert and shut off any Preview features or
attachment Auto Launch features if they can. Most major services like
MSN, ATT, and AOL will not allow automatic infections by simply
recieving the infected mail, the recipient must open the mail because
many of these services do not provide a Preview feature. To be safe,
everyone should disable the Auto-Launch of e-mail attachments feature
if they can.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19557 From: David Dewey Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: Re: Spam & Viruses from ???
Roger, and all,
The latest round of virus (virii??) goes into someone's computer, pulls
out the email list and subject list, then (apparently randomly) selects one
of each as the "origination" and sends out to the rest. I recently got a
returned email from someone's ISP that I've never heard of with a subject
line I've never used. I think that the virus on someone else's computer
harvested my email and used it as the "originator." So you can complain to
your ISP as much as you like, but I doubt they can do anything about it, AND
posting back to someone who "sent" you a virus doesn't do any good anymore
because they likely didn't have a thing to do with it!
AAAAUGH!!!
What I am noticing, however, is I get a lot of these mass-mailed to the
yahoo groups moderator list, so I think Yahoo is acting as an enabler, at
least.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19558 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: Re: Viruses from Yahoo
I use a utility called ad-aware to remove unwanted pop-up ad downloads on my hard drive. Also, every time I log off, I use Norton to empty my web cache and clean out all cookies except my main ones (MyYahoo, etc.). About once a week I delete all the temp folders in C/Windows/Temporary Internet Files. I don't care what warnings my system may give me, I delete them ALL anyway. There shouldn't be any .EXE files in those folders. There's been no negative repercussions so far. Of course, an updated firewall and virus protection program is now a must. One needs to use protection. Think of it as a condom for the computer. I do an update to Norton every day - I don't wait for the software to prompt itself. Also, I put a bogus email address in my mailing list with an undeliverable email address. If I get a virus that sends email out via my address book, that one will come back as undeliverable and then I'll know I'm infected and can take corrective action. That's the theory. I have never been infected yet, so I don't know if it will actually work. Hope I never find out, either. I don't participate in chain-forwardings. If I get one, I delete it. It stops with me. Outside of hitting the 'reply' button on this list, I rarely forward anything to anyone. If there is content I want to share, I cut and paste it into a personal note or send the link. I don't want to use my computer as an internet commode. Hope this helps/inspires some others.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: af21115
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 1:44 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Viruses from Yahoo


A lot depends on your IP, and what they are doing to filter and
screen e-mails and e-mail attachments. About three weeks ago I got
about 4 from other people on my IP service, and one from a Yahoo s-
list member. They were easy to spot as they always had a 132/K
attachment and tried to launch a web page on opening. Fortunately, I
had my ZoneAlarm on, and WebWasher (Ineffective with AOL unless you
use IE to get to the internet instead of AOL's browser.) on, and the
page would not launch. After the first one, I knew what they were,
and I deleted them and sent a notice to ATT.NET that they were
getting past their E-Mail screener. Since then I've had NONE. ATT has
been very good in this regard. AOL is the worse as my significant
other has not yet dropped them, and each morning she is inundated
with over 75 junk mails in her mailbox, many of which contain either
spyware, or viruses. With ZoneAlarm and WebWasher I get very very
very few ads and no pop-ups, even on Yahoo. It takes some time to get
the URL list straight on WebWasher as many of these snakes use a
string that changes by a few digits or characters for each ad, so if
you try to block one, the next with a slightly different string still
shows up. To get rid of them just take the main part of the string
like http://www.junkads.com/ and put that in the WebWasher URL list
instead of http://www.junkads.com/23884/adload/specials/p. This stops
ANY ads coming from their main site. Some are getting tricky now
though, and using animated movies and such which cannot be stopped
easily. The most persistent spys are Doubleclick and Valueclick.
Thought I had them stopped from installing their spy cookies this
week, but there they appear again UGH! I'll get them yet!!


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19559 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: Re: AF Switches
--- In S-Trains@y..., "Tim Brown" <Timboy@a...> wrote:
> Do you mean this one, maybe?
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1730251322
>
> -Tim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: hcopter52
> To: S-Trains@y...
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 5:21 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] AF Switches
>
>
> Hello All. Can anyone tell me if American Flyer made a switch
that
> was a combination of the 720A remote control switch and the
Manual
> switch? I appear to have switches that have the 4 terminal posts
and
> also the manual lever for switching. Thanks in advance for the
> help,John.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-
unsubscribe@Y...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Yes Tim, thats the one. I guess they did make them. Thanks to you
and all who replied. I even learned more about the controllers,John.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19560 From: Ted Walton Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: LIONEL V W Transformer and plug repair
I really didn't want to take time to respond at this time - Mother's day just
passed and all the flowers to plant, long term care seminars to attend and
decisions to make, CD 's coming due and where to place money better then 2%
yield, two graduations to attend - my veterinarian daughter decided to change
fields after practicing for 18 years ( maybe watching me cry when she had to
put a cat I never wanted to sleep was to much for her) - she gets a Master's
Degree in Public Policy on Friday at Georgetown University (DC) and another one
at George Mason U. (VA) in Arbitration and Conflict Resolution on Saturday with
some special events and awards during the week. Conflict resolution skills is
some thing we all might want to practice before we make hasty comments on this
mailing list. That's why I original wanted to delay my comments and study what
I have written before sending, but I don't have that luxury right now .
So please excuse any sloppiness if I don't say or explain things just right or
unintentionally insult someone.

First, I never meant to imply that I was incompetent or confused in making the
repairs I did on the VW transformer. As I said before, I'm never to proud or
embarrassed to ask for advice, or ask a question - there are many ways to make
a repair, and I wanted to explore other possibilities from those who have done
many such repairs.

Second, lets get to the "Lionel" marked plug, and my suggestion to reuse it and
a suggestion by Jerry D how I might do this. When I cut the plug off I did not
pay that close attention to it; at first blush, it appeared to be a completely
molded plug in which the two metal prongs with the wires attached (by solder?)
to be completely encapsulated with some hard material - maybe a phenolic resin
(Bakelite) or a rubber material that had been formulated to be hard like
Ebonite( bowling balls) This type of construction is common today and actually
appears to me to far superior (safety) then the replacement plugs where you run
the cord through the back of the plug separate the wire and remove some
insulation, and wrap it around the prongs and fasten in place with the screws.

After this controversy over drilling the plug out and reusing it arose, I took
a closer look at the plug's construction. The construction appears to be
identical as to what one would expect the repair described by Jerry D suggested
and on which he took quite a bit of heat, and more insults then were
necessary. (Look, I know it common practice to call people idiots to help
reinforce the arguments, but that always makes me suspicious of the strength of
the argument, and it should never happen ( well almost never) on this mailing
list.) The cord comes out of the back of the plug through a small hole in the
plug (common practice). However, on the front side where the prongs come out,
there is a hole that goes in, between the two prongs, and a material that
appears to be an epoxy added to about an 1/8 to 3/16 inch from the top of the
plug surface. I would picture the construction as follows, a hard base material
was molded into a plug with a hole in the rear for the cord to be passed
through and a cavity (hole) in the interior of the plug extending out the front
and in which the prongs would fit after the wires were solder to each prong. A
potting compound was then poured into the hole to encapsulate, hold, insulate
the prongs, and provide rigidity to the whole construction. If I remember
right, epoxies were developed in Germany during WW II and were not available
until after that time from such foreign companies as Ciba Gige (sp) and Shell.
So the potting compound used by Lionel may not have been an epoxy since the
transformers were made in 1948-49; but the potting material appears to have
held up quite well.

Now I have to strongly disagree with Tom Jarcho. statement about epoxies.
Epoxies are one of the most powerful adhesive that we have for consumer and
industrial use. Epoxies are extremely "sticky" and form strong bonds to almost
all substrates they are bonding. Epoxies do not form a strong joint by just
"conforming to exact shape", although this process is helpful and can
contribute to the overall bond strength. The polar groups in the chemical
structure of the epoxy(part A), and the co-reactant (part B) used to cure (set)
it into a "hard" material is one of the reasons for the high tensile and shear
strength developed, routinely 5000 to 6000 psi. Peal strengths are general
poor, but proper formulation can greatly improve that property. Epoxies can be
formulated and cured to materials with properties that range from very hard to
rubber type properties. There are a number of epoxies available in the store
and you need to select the one that is appropriate for your project - this is
not very easy to do sometimes. I also strongly disagree with his statement
that " A plug is essentially a moving part, since it changes its shape while
being plugged in. Moving parts should not be glued." The Navy and Air Force
have high performance jet aircraft that make heavy use of epoxies and epoxy
adhesives, and those things really move; and the epoxies are used because they
can tolerate the stresses - far greater than that found on removing a plug.
Take a look at the brake lining on your car the next time you have a wheel off
-adhesives are used to bond the lining to the metal brake shoe in most cases
and now consider the stresses when you slam on your brakes at 70 mph.The most
important process in using any adhesives is to make sure the surfaces are
clean. The adhesive must wet the surface if it is going to form a strong and
durable bond. What's wetting? If you place a drop of water on a freshly wax
car, the water pulls up into a bead to form a ball - that is poor wetting; if
the car is freshly washed with a good detergent (soap), the drop of water will
spread out to form a thin film over a large area - that's good wetting and
that is the type of clean surface you want when using any adhesive. Because the
viscosity of most epoxies are quite high, you wont see then self spread like
the water drop; but the epoxy does strongly inter react with the clean surface
that it touches. Epoxies do shrink a little ( 2%) as they cure and this can put
some inherent stress in the bond, but almost all, if not all adhesives, have
this problem and epoxies are better then most adhesives . The shrinkage in
epoxy adhesives is not due to the loss of volatile material but due to the
chemistry - more chemical bonds are formed than broken during the cure
reaction. We one time had a project where we were trying to synthesize ( make)
chemical structures that when reacted together would break more chemical bonds
than were formed in the curing (hardening) process) and hopefully give
expansion rather then shrinkage - not easy chemistry.

Now back to the plug. It looks in good physical condition. Being retired, I
don't have access to the test equipment to make nondestructive evaluation. Most
important would be to know what material the plug was made from. If it was a
phenolic material, I would have no concern based on my visual observation. If
the material was rubber base, then I might have more concern that the plug has
deteriorate some. However, just because the cord had deteriorated over the
years (common for cheap rubber parts just sitting around with no stress) does
not mean the plug (probably a totally different material) would have undergone
the same degradation. I would expect the plug to shatter or crack on drilling
out the potting material if it has under gone extensive degradation. But maybe
I'll be lucky, or careful, and have no problem. The next step will be to remove
the prongs from the remaining potting material. If successful, all this will
give information on the condition of the plug and the construction. Indeed, I
don't expect the electrical prongs to be straight, but have a protrusion or
side tab that would fit in a side cavity so it would be more difficult to pull
it straight out in case of adhesive failure - but maybe not.

After complete disassembling and cleaning, soldering the cord to the two
prongs, re cleaning the soldered area, the cord would be threaded through the
back hole and the electrical prongs pulled into position inside the plug to
check the goodness of fit. If all looks good, the prongs will be moved out and
the bonding area on the prongs and the area they contact inside the plug coated
with the epoxy, and the prongs reposition inside the plug. After curing, the
strength can be evaluated and then the cavity filled with more epoxy to
complete the job,

The final test and evaluation. I plan on wearing the six foot cord with the
"Rube Goldberg" plug attached on the one end around my neck, like a tie, when I
do out. Then when I get stuck in traffic, I plan to plug and unplug the
repaired plug into a socket to test the durability. Around here I would expect
that in a week I would have a thousand or more disconnects.
Note that all along the repairs and testing, I can evaluate whether the repair
for my limited abilities are a OK.

For all others please follow the advice and safety concerns expressed by Tom
Jarcho and Chris Zizzo. Under just about any circumstance, you might ask
yourself why would anyone go to all this work and trouble to make a repair on
an old plug rather then do a simple repair with a new plug? I don't have a
good, simple answer. As suggested, if I'm able to successfully make the repair,
a strongly attached (maybe using an appropriate epoxy adhesive ) warning will
be applied to the cord.

Ted Walton
Group: S-Trains Message: 19561 From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: Lost message
Someone sent me a request for the footprint demensions of one of our s Gauge flagstops. I lost it between the design area and the shop. Please send another request. I am loosing everything lately! Sorry about this.
Thanks, Tom D.

Tom Doherty
Pennsylvania Heritage Models, Ltd.
http://www.paheritagemodels.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19562 From: Clifford Manning Date: 5/15/2002
Subject: Pike Master
I have aquired some Pike Master track. Is it worth the time to renovate
for use?
I sure love my original Gilbert American Flyer, the last is at best OK.
Too bad because my original was built to last forever it seems.

Does anyone make a replacement part for XA 15A426-RP - Body and Door
Assembly for the 919 Coal Dump Car.

If not, does anyone have a suggestion as to repair of the joint where
the catch gear works the body.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19563 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/16/2002
Subject: LIONEL V W Transformer and plug repair
Ted:
First and foremost: No one called anyone an "idiot" or anything like that.
All the correspondence on this subject was respectful.

Secondly: You indicated in your original post that you were less than
completely knowledgeable about these sorts of repairs. This is all we had
to go on. That you actually are far more knowledgeable and competent than
you led us to believe is something you are only bringing up now.

Third: I clearly pointed out that anyone who had the competence to make such
a repair, FOR HIMSELF, could certainly do so, but should not sell that
repair service to others, especially where the knowledge and competence of
the buyer was an unknown. This included recommending the repair to others
and instructing others how to do it.

Underwriters Laboratories tests original equipment plugs to see if they are
fit for use by the general public. Any modification . . . ANY, meaning even
the slightest cosmetic change . . . is cause for a new UL review.
Manufacturers know this and deal with it. That is why they would never
endorse such a repair by one of their authorized sevice facilities. "When
in doubt, rip it out." Service shops replace damaged plugs and cords with
new ones.

Plugs which can be assembled to an existing wire are UL approved for this
purpose. Your repaired plug, no matter how well repaired, is not approved.
No matter how smart you are, you may not have considered all the electrical
and chemical ramifications of this combination of materials. If this plug
caused a fire and the inspector pointed to it as the source of the fire,
your insurance might not cover the damages. I doubt this, of course, as it
is an example in the extreme, so no flames for me, OK? Technically,
however, it IS possible. If a repair shop did this plug modification and it
caused a fire, you would be suing them, for sure.

Bottom line: You wanna do this; have fun, but you're on your own. And only
do it for yourself. That's all we ever said.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19564 From: Scott Holm Date: 5/16/2002
Subject: Re: Virus
--- af21115 <Dave0616@...> wrote:
> The only time you can get the Klez virus without opening the mail is
> if you use Microsoft Outlook or Outlook Express, and the infected
> mail was received in that mailbox. This can be stopped in some
> instances by disabling the Preview feature.

An easier and better solution is to just apply the patch that has been
available for over a year from Microsoft.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/downloads/critical/q290108/default.asp

If you have the patch on, there is no currently known way to infect
your computer by just receiving or previewing e-mail. Users who don't
have the latest security patches on or who open executable attachments
deserve to get infected. Now can we get back to really important things
like how to repair a Lionel plug?

By the way, should the plug also have a sticker attached that says
"altered tinplate" and rated as VG?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19565 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/16/2002
Subject: Re: Virus
Sounds good to me. What is the address of that web site?

rfgiardina wrote:

> The virus is the "Klez" worm.
>
> Go to the Symantic Tech Support Website, and download "Fixklez".
>
> If you got one of the emails, you're probaly infected. Not opening
> the attachment dosn't protect you. Once you get the email you start
> broadcasting the worm!!!!
>
> Follow the instructions for Fixklez carefully!!!!!!
>
> This is a nasty persistant little worm, don't delay!!!!!!
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19566 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/16/2002
Subject: Re: Viruses from Yahoo
Never heard of that file. I also found out by doing it that I can delete ALL the folders and files in my Temp and Temp Internet File folders under windows - disregarding any 'warnings' I may get. The system recreates folders and files as it needs them. My CPU is fast enuf to handle that without bogging down. Nice to completely clean house periodically.

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Hinds
To: Tim Brown
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: Viruses from Yahoo


Good advice. So I did it. However there is one file I can't delete.
The file name starts with Webpoo~1 any idea what that file is?
Someone sent me a Bat file called nohref.bat ever hear of that?
Comments ?

Roger

Tim Brown wrote:

> I use a utility called ad-aware to remove unwanted pop-up ad downloads on my hard drive. Also, every time I log off, I use Norton to empty my web cache and clean out all cookies except my main ones (MyYahoo, etc.). About once a week I delete all the temp folders in C/Windows/Temporary Internet Files. I don't care what warnings my system may give me, I delete them ALL anyway. There shouldn't be any .EXE files in those folders. There's been no negative repercussions so far. Of course, an updated firewall and virus protection program is now a must. One needs to use protection. Think of it as a condom for the computer. I do an update to Norton every day - I don't wait for the software to prompt itself. Also, I put a bogus email address in my mailing list with an undeliverable email address. If I get a virus that sends email out via my address book, that one will come back as undeliverable and then I'll know I'm infected and can take corrective action. That's the theory. I
> have never been infected yet, so I don't know if it will actually work. Hope I never find out, either. I don't participate in chain-forwardings. If I get one, I delete it. It stops with me. Outside of hitting the 'reply' button on this list, I rarely forward anything to anyone. If there is content I want to share, I cut and paste it into a personal note or send the link. I don't want to use my computer as an internet commode. Hope this helps/inspires some others.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: af21115
> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 1:44 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Viruses from Yahoo
>
> A lot depends on your IP, and what they are doing to filter and
> screen e-mails and e-mail attachments. About three weeks ago I got
> about 4 from other people on my IP service, and one from a Yahoo s-
> list member. They were easy to spot as they always had a 132/K
> attachment and tried to launch a web page on opening. Fortunately, I
> had my ZoneAlarm on, and WebWasher (Ineffective with AOL unless you
> use IE to get to the internet instead of AOL's browser.) on, and the
> page would not launch. After the first one, I knew what they were,
> and I deleted them and sent a notice to ATT.NET that they were
> getting past their E-Mail screener. Since then I've had NONE. ATT has
> been very good in this regard. AOL is the worse as my significant
> other has not yet dropped them, and each morning she is inundated
> with over 75 junk mails in her mailbox, many of which contain either
> spyware, or viruses. With ZoneAlarm and WebWasher I get very very
> very few ads and no pop-ups, even on Yahoo. It takes some time to get
> the URL list straight on WebWasher as many of these snakes use a
> string that changes by a few digits or characters for each ad, so if
> you try to block one, the next with a slightly different string still
> shows up. To get rid of them just take the main part of the string
> like http://www.junkads.com/ and put that in the WebWasher URL list
> instead of http://www.junkads.com/23884/adload/specials/p. This stops
> ANY ads coming from their main site. Some are getting tricky now
> though, and using animated movies and such which cannot be stopped
> easily. The most persistent spys are Doubleclick and Valueclick.
> Thought I had them stopped from installing their spy cookies this
> week, but there they appear again UGH! I'll get them yet!!
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19567 From: af21115 Date: 5/16/2002
Subject: Re: Viruses from Yahoo
Tim, NOHREF is a Web page Hypertext it is safe to delete. Webpoo~1 is
another Web page file and is typically related to animated applets
and misic files. It can also be safely deleted.


If anyone is not sure of a file in your start up list, or in any of
these files, copy the file name and go to GOOGLE.COM and search on
the name or a dirivative of it. 98% of the time there is an entry
which will inform you as to what the file is and what it does.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19568 From: John Foley Date: 5/16/2002
Subject: MM&T
Hi Folks
I just got a call from Marlin Becker. He the fellow who owns
MM&T. This as your know is the outfit that bought the Downs line of
models trains. Well the good news is Marlin has decided to keep the
train business going. So you can order with them again. Please use
the following address.

MM&T
311 S. Board St.
Lititz, Pa. 17543
Phone/Fax 717 627-3980

Marlin will not be keeping his machine shop. So he will be looking
for a vender for wheels.

Right now he is stocked okay so if you have been wanting something
they will get it out to you.

John Foley
Group: S-Trains Message: 19569 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 5/16/2002
Subject: S attention getter-100% sure fire
Hey gang-
Remember, there is a fine line between genius and
lunacy....
So,keep that in mind - here is my humble proposal to
garner some glory for S gauge:
"The Girls of S Gauge": imagine the
possibliities-exploring the phallic symbolism of
trains as the props in a photo shoot with "babe" class
models (the 1:1 scale variety) - think of the
possibilities of a blonde with a Royal Blue......a
black model with a Silver Bullet....a cute, Snap-on
Tool type approach, calendar approach, or downright
bawdy? The possibilities are endless-Playboy style, or
Hustler??? Tunnels-hmmmmmmmm. Of course, such an
article MAY be just a bit out of CTT's interest-but
think of the younger generation-they deserve to be
stimulated to enjoy a REAL man's hobby, in the gauge
that makes the difference.
well, hey, it's only an idea-john Marganski

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19570 From: John Foley Date: 5/16/2002
Subject: Cincinnati Union Station S Layout
Hi Folks
I uploaded a few photos of the S layout in the Cincinnati
Union Station
in the S Scale photo section. The Pictures depict only one area of this large
layout.

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/s-scale/lst?&.dir=/&.src=gr&.begin=17&.view=t&.order=&.done=http%3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/s-scale/lst%3f%26.dir=/%26.src=gr%26.view=t

John
Group: S-Trains Message: 19571 From: Don Abrams Date: 5/16/2002
Subject: Pikemaster
I use Pikemaster straights for displaying my collection and use the
traditional track with rubber roadbed to build floor layouts with the
grandkids. I like the look and low profile of the Pikemaster to show off
Flyer S.

Don
Group: S-Trains Message: 19572 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/16/2002
Subject: Photos Glitch
Since last week, I've been having a problem with the Photos sections
of all the groups I belong to.

When viewing an individual pic, there used to be an option whereby
one could view the "full size" version of the file by clicking on a
link above the selected "mid sized" version that would come up first
after clicking a thumbnail. The link read "full size", or "full size
view", something like that. It would appear above the right corner of
the midsize pic. Clicking on it would download the full sized file as
it was uploaded by whoever.

A week or so ago, that link disappeared, at least to my computer. The
link is gone from ALL groups I visit, and I can no longer view the
full size version of any pix, including my own. The notation (which
is not a link) UNDER the pic still shows that the full size file is
on Yahoo's server, but there's no way to get to it!

There also appears to be no group setting that deals with this issue.
Have any on this group been having this problem?

I've contacted Yahoo, and they sent this reply:

>Thank you for writing to Yahoo! Groups.

>We're sorry, but the current version of Yahoo! Groups does not
>support that particular feature, and we do not have an estimated
>date as to when or if it will be available.


Wa? Yahoo doesn't even know what features they offer? I replied to
Yahoo that they most certainly DO have such a feature, that I've been
using it for at least a year, it still works for other members I've
asked about this, and I want it back.

We'll see what their next reply is, but I'm beginning to see why they
call it "Yahoo!"


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19573 From: bassflyer Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: Re: Photos Glitch
Yer right Chuck,..I don't see or find that option either!! It
was there!!

Now Yahoo did say,....the "CURRENT" version doesn't support that
feature. We had it and lost it,....they are always changin'
somethin'!!!


Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19574 From: rfgiardina Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: virus
For users of I.E. 5.0, 5.5 and 6.0, Microsoft has issued a new
security patch. This patch includes a patch for I.E. 5.5 SP2.

Go to Windows Update to download.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19575 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: Dyeing Lichen
Hi Guy"S"
I have a source for lichen. I need to make hundreds of trees.
Does any know how to get the rich fall colors into the lichen?
I tried Rit dye. It did not work.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 19576 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: Re: virus
Is there a patch for Netscape?

rfgiardina wrote:

> For users of I.E. 5.0, 5.5 and 6.0, Microsoft has issued a new
> security patch. This patch includes a patch for I.E. 5.5 SP2.
>
> Go to Windows Update to download.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19577 From: John Foley Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: Great Northern Sand & Gravel
Hi Folks
We now have another manufacturers who has included S Scale
on their website. Great Northern Sand & Gravel is the co. When you
go to his website http://www.ballast-train.com/ Click on products &
prices then click on the scale size chart.

John
Group: S-Trains Message: 19578 From: TCS Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: Fw: [alpsdecal] Yahoo returns pay groups to the table?
Please fill out the survey!! We want to keep Yahoo groups free!!

Tom Stolte


> http://sweepstakes.yahoo.com/groupspremiumsurvey2?source=
Group: S-Trains Message: 19579 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: 283 Pacific chassis
Have any of you American Flyer guys ever put a PulMor chassis in a non
PulMor engine? Does it just bolt in? I have a Hudson I'd like to do this
with. I'm also looking for a 283 chassis. Can anyone help me out? Please
contact me off list. Thanks

Kenneth Stoudt
1016 South 12th Street
Allentown, PA 18103
P 610-437-6087


+
Group: S-Trains Message: 19580 From: af21115 Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: [alpsdecal] Yahoo returns pay groups to the table?
VERY interesting how slanted it was. Be very CAREFUL how you answer!!
The answers are slanted to give them a go-ahead to install a fee
service, then they will use your answers to place a fee for service
then say we asked for it. It was very noticeable that there was not
an option: I want ALL free services to remain the way it is NOW, but
without the annoying ads, banners and other SPAM on the web page and
in the e-mails.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19581 From: af21115 Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: Re: 283 Pacific chassis
It just bolts right in. Just be careful that you use a chassis with
the correct center wheel stud. 283 pacifics have a plain stud, where
Hudsons and K5's have a square notched stud. On SIT locos, you'd have
to either leave the boiler smoker out, or remove the brass stack
extention for clearance.

An easier conversion would be to purchase two repro Pul-Mor wheels
and swap the rear drivers out on your existing chassis.


Enjoy....
Group: S-Trains Message: 19582 From: Scott Holm Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: Who's infected?
Something interesting about the klez virus is that the sender and
receiver are not necessarily infected. The infected computer is a third
party who has the sender's and receiver's email addresses on their
computer (and not necessarily in their address book since klez actually
searches other files for addresses.) Therefore, if you get an infected
e-mail with an attachment, due to the spoofing of the FROM address, it
probably didn't really come from who it appears to have come from. This
explains why people who practice safe computing by not opening
attachments and having security patches on are being accused of having
the virus when they don't.

If you get one of these or still have one you probably can find out who
it really came from and who is really infected by looking at the
message headers. The different e-mail programs have different ways of
doing this; Yahoo mail is changed by going into preferences and
selecting full headers. I got one of these that was actually an
undeliverable notice sent to me as if I was trying to send the virus to
jtrains@... and looking in the header it actually came from abeachy@...
so it looks like abeachy has a virus. Sorry Wayne.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19583 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: BUDD CAR SETS
Hi Guys,
I will be listing 2 Budd sets on E-Bay soon. If anyone on
this list would like them before I list them contact me off list. One is a
painted UP set, the other is a Santa Fe Chromed set. They are both mint in
the box never run or displayed. The price is $300.00 for each set. That
includes shipping. The sell for 320 + shipping. If you have not seen these
cars they are great. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19584 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, May 19, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19585 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: Re: S attention getter-100% sure fire
John Marganski sez:
> enjoy a REAL man's hobby, in the gauge
>that makes the difference.

Oh boy, sex! I seen sumthin' about it on the TV wonst.
Here's where I start to pay attention.

Now about the gauge. Does size matter?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19586 From: David Dewey Date: 5/17/2002
Subject: Re: 283 Pacific chassis
Putting Pullmor wheels on a non-pullmor chassis requires a few alterations.
1) the rear chassis mounts must be filed away some to clear the larger
flanges
2) the front wheels should be changed for pull-mor diameter front wheels, or
the loco will sit slanted forward, and the pilot will strike the rails at
the start of any grade.
Other than that, yep, it'll work!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19587 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: Re: Photos Glitch
Rick wrote:

>I don't see or find that option either!! It was there!!


Yesterday I had asked some members of another group if the feature
was still on that group, the moderator told me it was still working
for him. It doesn't for me, on ANY group.


>Now Yahoo did say,....the "CURRENT" version doesn't support that
>feature. We had it and lost it,....they are always changin'
>somethin'!!!

If that's the case, it doesn't seem to have changed for everybody,
and you'd think it would apply to every member if it was Yahoo's
doing.

Besides, it doesn't make much sense for Yahoo to keep the full size
files if nobody can look at them at full resolution, does it? Unless
they're counting on making $ with print orders.

Still, after getting a look at that "survey", it certainly looks like
Yahoo is getting ready to try squeezing us again. I thought they had
that issue solved a few months ago, but it seems they're determined
to suck more money out of this thing.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19588 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: [alpsdecal] Yahoo returns pay groups to the table?
"af21115" <Dave0616@A...> wrote:

>VERY interesting how slanted it was. Be very CAREFUL how you
>answer!! The answers are slanted to give them a go-ahead to install
>a fee service, then they will use your answers to place a fee for
>service then say we asked for it.

It certainly does look as though they wired the thing to get the
answers they want.


>It was very noticeable that there was not an option: I want ALL free
>services to remain the way it is NOW, but without the annoying ads,
>banners and other SPAM on the web page and in the e-mails.

I understand the need to get revenue from ad banners, on the message
boards at least. (It is possible to escape the pop-ups by viewing the
messages in the "expand messages" mode, but that way doesn't seem to
keep track of what you've already read.) I don't mind a few ads, as
long as they're not porn, and the service remains "no pay." It's like
not paying for network TV because the networks make money by selling
ads. I'm used to that. (Thank God for the "mute" button!) I know the
groups have to pay their way, but Yahoo never seems to be satisfied.

It's weird, they actually structured the survey so you could choose
to KEEP the ads AND pay! "Gorsh! I git ta fill Yahoo with content
whut I make, shuvil money to Yahoo, AND I kin' still git ads throwed
at me wiff every click? Oh yuh! I'll go fer dat!!"

Sheesh. It never ends.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19589 From: Michael Christensen Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: DIRECTIONAL CONTROL BUTTON???
On EBAY right now ius auction 1730019792 for an
American Flyer Directional Control Button. It is an
old style button with the control button off center.
Can any one tell me what this was used with?
Thanks

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19590 From: af21115 Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: Re: 283 Pacific chassis
Interesting. I've never had to make those mods in the dozen or so
312's & 322's I've converted over the years by just swapping out the
rear drivers to Pul-Mor, and the loco's experienced no problems and
sat level. They flanging key may be that the Pul-Mor chassis has a
small raised bushing cast into it at the axel hole. In the swap I
always use a very thin brass washer there and therefore never had any
trouble. I've never seen the un-even situation where the front
drivers had to be swapped out except where a standard wheel had a Pul-
Mor band applied to it, this did cause a different diameter problem.
Scrapping a 307 chassis would not be too difficult though to get the
required wheels if needed.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19591 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: Re: DIRECTIONAL CONTROL BUTTON???
I'm going to take a guess here and suggest that it would be used to break the current to the track and cause the reverse unit to cycle, rather than using the transformer throttle control. How'my doin'?

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Christensen
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 8:15 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] DIRECTIONAL CONTROL BUTTON???


On EBAY right now ius auction 1730019792 for an
American Flyer Directional Control Button. It is an
old style button with the control button off center.
Can any one tell me what this was used with?
Thanks

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19592 From: rfgiardina Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: Re: DIRECTIONAL CONTROL BUTTON???
The Directional Control Button was used with the DC engines.


--- In S-Trains@y..., Michael Christensen <semaphoresam@y...> wrote:
> On EBAY right now ius auction 1730019792 for an
> American Flyer Directional Control Button. It is an
> old style button with the control button off center.
> Can any one tell me what this was used with?
> Thanks
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
> http://launch.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19593 From: rfgiardina Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: Re: 283 Pacific chassis
I agree, I've never seen a problem like that either. But as we have
hundreds of chassis, I'm going to check several to make sure.

--- In S-Trains@y..., "af21115" <Dave0616@A...> wrote:
> Interesting. I've never had to make those mods in the dozen or so
> 312's & 322's I've converted over the years by just swapping out
the
> rear drivers to Pul-Mor, and the loco's experienced no problems and
> sat level. They flanging key may be that the Pul-Mor chassis has a
> small raised bushing cast into it at the axel hole. In the swap I
> always use a very thin brass washer there and therefore never had
any
> trouble. I've never seen the un-even situation where the front
> drivers had to be swapped out except where a standard wheel had a
Pul-
> Mor band applied to it, this did cause a different diameter
problem.
> Scrapping a 307 chassis would not be too difficult though to get
the
> required wheels if needed.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19594 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: 293 chassis
I have encountered this problem. It's no big deal. You just gently file a
small amount off the bottoms of the chassis tabs with a mill file. The
tabs are not robust.

There are two types of pul-mor tires -- small flange and large flange. The
large flanges will strike the chassis tabs. The small flange ones may or
may not do so.

Any wear in the axle holes will be in an upward direction and bring the
flanges nearer to the chassis tabs. This can be a contributory factor as
well.

When the large flanges were introduced, the chassis tabs were reduced in
size by changing the molds.

Neil Trump's pulmor rims, which are the best repros ever made, are large
flange. Chances are you may have to do a little filing.

A downward tilt caused by the rearmost pulmor tires being slightly larger
in diameter, has not been a problem on the Atlantic I tested Neil's rims
on. In a 6 or 8 wheeled loco, it would be even less of a problem, unless
the front driver rims are badly worn. This metal is soft and this wear
does happen sometimes. The K-5, with its long pilot, would be the most
likely to show it.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19595 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: Re: DIRECTIONAL CONTROL BUTTON???
In a message dated 5/18/02 8:16:19 AM, semaphoresam@... writes:

<< American Flyer Directional Control Button. It is an old style button with
the control button off center. Can any one tell me what this was used with?
Thanks >>

The answers so far posted that I have read are incorrect. I believe what you
are looking at is the button used with prewar O and HO gauge Gilbert
AC-powered engines equipped with the Directional Control feature (with
forward-neutral-reverse). Some prewar Gilbert engines were fitted with a
reverse unit which had a solenoid (rather than the usual 'full-time'
electromagnet that we S gaugers all know and love) that was activated by an
offset voltage in the same manner as Lionel's (or the 314AW's) air whistles
are activated (Side comment - you can set the track voltage to about 5-7
volts and cause this unit to function by using the whistle button on a Lionel
transformer). The reverse unit was placed in the boiler of the 3/16" scale
trains or in the tender of the HO Hudson. The button was placed off center to
accommodate a small coil that is inside the case. The advantage of this
arrangement is that the engine maintained its intended direction of motion
until the reverse unit was activated regardless of how many times one lowered
the track voltage to zero.

Not being clairvoyant - I just happen to own and operate some is this old
stuff <g>.

Hope this helps.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 19596 From: Neil Trump Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: Re: early K-5 chassis and pul-mors
On the early pre PM K-5's that some people may upgrade to the new PM's, will
find that the front pilot dips down. The trick here is to place a washer
between the 'chassis and the body' this will compensate for the change.


The K-5, with its long pilot, would be the most
> likely to show it.
>
> Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19597 From: David Dewey Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: Re: early K-5 chassis and pul-mors
Neil's solution is one I have used. I find the problem on Royal Blue locos
(Gee, why is that; maybe my Daylight conversion experiences??).
Another note: the diameters of the TIRES changes on AF locos. A combination
of the small tire and large tire on the same axle will cause "rocking" of
the chassis, leading to derailments. In mixing and matching parts to make
good running locos, one does have to be wary of manufacturing variances and
developments!
I agree with Tom J., I would think this difference would really show up
on Atlantic chassis, but I haven't experienced it YET. BTW, the filling of
the mount ears is noted in ACG repair sheets as necessary when installing
the larger FLANGED wheels. I'm lazy now, I usually use my Dermel tool!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19598 From: dmsapadin Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: Talking Station
Hi:

I picked up a Mystic Talking Station (green roof) about 12 years ago
at a train show and finally got around to taking a look at it. (OK
I'm, a little slow!) I believe it has the original record in it -
does anyone know how you can tell if its the original record or not?
(One side of the label was literally stuck to the metal turntable and
I had to carefully pry it off). Amazingly, this unit works fine!
Light comes on and the record plays just like its supposed to! But if
it is the original record, I don't want to use it. I understand
replacement records are available somewhere. Does anyone know where
you can pick up a replacement record? It has one needle which seems
also to be original...does anyone know if/where you can pick up
needles for this thing? It also is missing a few of the plastic
windows and I'd be interested if there are replacement ones available.

Thanks,

David Sapadin
david@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 19599 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/18/2002
Subject: BUDD SETS
Hi,
I have sold the UP BUDD SET. I still have the chrome 4 car Santa Fe set
left for $300.00 shipping included. If you would like to see them they are
listed at www.americanmodels.com Click on the BUDD sets link Thank
You Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19600 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Magnetic glueing jigs
Hi all:
Has anyone used the magnetic glueing jigs available from micromark? Are
they useful? 10 1/4" x 10 1/4" seems slightly small for structures.
They do have a 6"x24" plate also. Any comments? Have you made your own?
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)
Group: S-Trains Message: 19601 From: Thomas Curley Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: TCA Museum
A few weeks ago a message was posted on the
"Toy-Trains Group" from "rbclement@..."
asking for recommendations for future York meet. I
sent him the following request and thought others in
the group might be interested in doing something
similar.
***************************************************
Dear Clem,

I have attended every York meet since April of 1998
and look forward to the event with great anticipation.
I have also attended the talks given at the TCA
museum on each occasion. I must also state that I am
an S-Guage collector and run a mix of Am. Flyer, Am.
Models, and S-Helper equipment.

I realize that S-Guage only represents a small
percentage of the TCA membership, but the talks on the
Thursday before the meet are of little interest to the
S-Guage collectors. Even Am. Flyer (Lionel) has
little, if anything, to say about S-Guage. I think it
would be nice if part of that days activities would
include a presentation by representatives of S-Helper
Service and American Models, the other two large
manufacturers of S-Guage. There is an hour in the
middle of the afternoon that is open and perhaps that
time slot could be used.

I appreciate the opportunity to offer suggestions and
look forward to the meet in the fall.
*****************************************************

You never can tell???

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19602 From: Don Thompson Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Re: TCA Museum
Dear Tom.
I am sure that S gauge could be included in these proceeding if we asked. The
problem for us is two fold, first we are so busy packing and trying to get
everything ready for York this leaves us very little time in the morning to stop by
the TCA museum.. This may change as I have put in to retire in the end of June.
I guess as important is the fact that very few if any S gaugers show us for this
meeting. Most of the real die hards have been in York the last few days at the
unaffiliated train meets. All of our new products are usually on display at our
booth in the Purple hall. I think that we are the sole S only mfg. who come to York
so I am not sure who else would go to this event.
Don

Thomas Curley wrote:

> A few weeks ago a message was posted on the
> "Toy-Trains Group" from "rbclement@..."
> asking for recommendations for future York meet. I
> sent him the following request and thought others in
> the group might be interested in doing something
> similar.
> ***************************************************
> Dear Clem,
>
> I have attended every York meet since April of 1998
> and look forward to the event with great anticipation.
> I have also attended the talks given at the TCA
> museum on each occasion. I must also state that I am
> an S-Guage collector and run a mix of Am. Flyer, Am.
> Models, and S-Helper equipment.
>
> I realize that S-Guage only represents a small
> percentage of the TCA membership, but the talks on the
> Thursday before the meet are of little interest to the
> S-Guage collectors. Even Am. Flyer (Lionel) has
> little, if anything, to say about S-Guage. I think it
> would be nice if part of that days activities would
> include a presentation by representatives of S-Helper
> Service and American Models, the other two large
> manufacturers of S-Guage. There is an hour in the
> middle of the afternoon that is open and perhaps that
> time slot could be used.
>
> I appreciate the opportunity to offer suggestions and
> look forward to the meet in the fall.
> *****************************************************
>
> You never can tell???

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 19603 From: HOGHEADHAT@AOL.COM Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: New hoghead hatwear items announcement
Hello, we now have 54 different hatwear designs, the only RR logo hats made
in the USA! We now have RR logo direct embroidered golf shirts. New metal
signs, RR art prints which are matted and signed by RR artist Michael Scott
Kent $25 each + shipping. We will have RR art print magnets completed end of
the month. Send mailing address for flyer. website
http://cencalrails.railfan.net/hoghead.html
highball the rollbye! The new metal signs and BC RAIL & TP&W hats and golf
shirts will be uploaded to site early this week. Best regards, Kent Kahle
hoghead hatwear
Group: S-Trains Message: 19604 From: David Dewey Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Re: TCA Museum--presentation time avail?
Don,
I think you should re-consider this! The attendees may not be current S
gaugers, but there is definitely a potential for them to be Future S
Gaugers! They are a captive audience, already knowingly interested in toy OR
model trains. Ripe for the pickin'! You can't grow a lot by only preaching
to the choir. If you can't make it, find someone very familiar with your
product line, WITH samples, who is willing to be a "factory Rep" for a day,
and who is glib and comfortable speaking in public. There 'S'hould be a good
group of volunteers willing to do this--I know I would if I were going to be
back there (not that I'm all the glib or comfortable speaking, but I'd do it
for S).
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19605 From: Bill Lane Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Pennsy S Models X-29 project update
Hi Everyone,

It has been a while since I have posted an update on the Pennsy S Models
X-29 boxcar project. Once again, while we have been quiet, we have been
working. The latest delay has been worthwhile as we are achieving the
results we desire. This included contracting for some American made master
patterns and casting work. The next patterns to be made are for the
functional draft gear, and a WORKIING leaf spring set for the 2D-F19 truck.

Dan is trying to update the website www.pennsysmodels.com over the Memorial
Day weekend.

Delivery - Ah yes, the magical word. I hate to give a date because we have
passed them so many times before. We ARE
still working on the project. We have received photos of the 2D-F8 truck
from our builder this week. Our current and probably realistic goal is to
have a production sample of the REA car for the NASG convention in July. We
would like to thank everyone for your patience and continued support.

Bill Lane and Dan Mastrobuono

Pennsy S Models
Group: S-Trains Message: 19606 From: fjg1870 Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Fwd: S Scale CAT Vehiles
--- In S-Scale@y..., "fjg1870" <waltdanylak@c...> wrote:
I received a catalog recently that contains a number of 1/64 scale
Caterpillar vehiles that I was not aware of. The name of the company
is Norscot Scale Models. They do have a website, but it not up to
date according to the catalog I reveived.

There address is: www.norscot.com

Check it out if you're interested.

Walt Danylak
--- End forwarded message ---
Group: S-Trains Message: 19607 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: strrrrrange emails
Guys, I have been getting some seriously strange emails with attachments
today. Be alert!

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19608 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Re: strrrrrange emails
Tom....Me too....MARVEL....GAMES....GIRLS....LOANS...ETC.I am deleting 2 to
3 per day....Thank GOD for Norton A. V. I am deleting everything, unless I
know them. The other day, while looking for inexpensive land I entered A
site....Within 5 minutes I had about 25 spam mails...Strange, but when I
blocked the sender on one of them....all went away too...Bob Conner
----- Original Message -----
From: <jarcho@...>
To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 2:58 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] strrrrrange emails


> Guys, I have been getting some seriously strange emails with attachments
> today. Be alert!
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19609 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, May 19, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19610 From: Paul Yorke Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: more paper buildings
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/paper/paper_classic.html
Check this out, you print em, you build em.
You can also adjust em using any drawing program.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19611 From: mlmarmer Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Re: strrrrrange emails
I was getting a bunch of these emails with attachments, for about three
days, last week. I guess their system gave up on my email address, because,
I didn't fall for these attachments.

One was from a "Jane Hall" and subject matter on some were "My Hometown".
Plus other senders.

One was from "Postmaster" and one had a subject of "click here to end
viruses". Yeah, right, destroy the hard drive is what it would of done!

Be careful and don't open anything from anyone you don't know!

Mike Marmer
----- Original Message -----
From: <jarcho@...>
To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 2:58 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] strrrrrange emails


> Guys, I have been getting some seriously strange emails with attachments
> today. Be alert!
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19612 From: Robert E. Yablonski Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1458
Message: 10
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 16:53:30 -0000
From: "fjg1870" <waltdanylak@...>
Subject: Fwd: S Scale CAT Vehiles

--- In S-Scale@y..., "fjg1870" <waltdanylak@c...> wrote:
I received a catalog recently that contains a number of 1/64 scale
Caterpillar vehiles that I was not aware of. The name of the company
is Norscot Scale Models. They do have a website, but it not up to
date according to the catalog I reveived.

There address is: www.norscot.com

Check it out if you're interested.

Walt Danylak


Seems I have a room full of this from S-Helper
Group: S-Trains Message: 19613 From: Tom Doherty Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Re: Fwd: S Scale CAT Vehiles
Coventry Trains in Pottstown PA stocks all the items imported in 1/64 scale.
Tom D.
----- Original Message -----
From: "fjg1870" <waltdanylak@...>
To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:53 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Fwd: S Scale CAT Vehiles


> --- In S-Scale@y..., "fjg1870" <waltdanylak@c...> wrote:
> I received a catalog recently that contains a number of 1/64 scale
> Caterpillar vehiles that I was not aware of. The name of the company
> is Norscot Scale Models. They do have a website, but it not up to
> date according to the catalog I reveived.
>
> There address is: www.norscot.com
>
> Check it out if you're interested.
>
> Walt Danylak
> --- End forwarded message ---
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19614 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: All alone!
10:11 PM EDT, Sunday night. All alone in the chat room. Geez, it's drafty
in here. Somebody leave the door open? Where is everybody???

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19615 From: noramz@webtv.net Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Extra stack, what is it?
Guy"s",

On the front of my Hudson 322 there is a small stack right in front of
the smokestack. Anybody know what it is?

Norman
Cresent City S Gaugers
Group: S-Trains Message: 19616 From: bassflyer Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: I sent out an email w/an attachment....
I sent out a cartoon of a mouse and a computer to relatives and a
few on this list. Should be safe,..I had no problesm with it!
Subject was "Mouse???"


Rick Evans.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19617 From: Ron Inscho Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Re: Extra stack, what is it?
----- Original Message -----
From: <noramz@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 11:13 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Extra stack, what is it?


> That little stack is for the exhaust for the booster engine on the
trailing truck. This is yet one more example of the kind of details that
Gilbert included on the American Flyer trains
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19618 From: bassflyer Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Re: strrrrrange emails
"ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT" wrote:
**(( Tom....Me too....MARVEL....GAMES....GIRLS....LOANS...ETC.I am
deleting 2 to 3 per day....))**


I too,...have been getting many emails, ads and such,...however,
without attachments. I think it is Yahoo generated. Hmmm....

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19619 From: David Dewey Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Re: strrrrrange emails
I too, have been getting a LOT of these, more than "real" email! When I
right click to "view source" it seems to be coming through Yahoo, and groups
owner list. It appears to me that being a part of Yahoo is becoming a
liability. I don't like to make waves, but all this JUNK is making my
internet experience "not fun." Does Yahoo have the monopoly on free groups
like ours? Or is there any way we can make Yahoo "fess up" to selling our
emails to every spam junkie and not having anything even remotely resembling
a virus zapper?
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19620 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: Re: strrrrrange emails
David D. wrote:

>It appears to me that being a part of Yahoo is becoming a
>liability. I don't like to make waves, but all this JUNK is making my
>internet experience "not fun."

Yahoo people are the ones "making waves" David, you've every right to
complain, and warn others about Yahoo's email practices.

>Does Yahoo have the monopoly on free groups like ours?

I don't think so, but that issue may become irrelevant soon, as
Yahoo digests the last "survey" they conducted. This whole thing may
become "Pay Only," or the free service we're left with may be next to
useless. Or we may be left status quo.

BTW, the last email I sent to Yahoo about the Photos viewing issue is
still unanswered (Could I have confused them?), but that may be due
to the weekend break. Nothing to do but wait, as usual.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19621 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/19/2002
Subject: More ROOM!
In an effort to release more file space in the S-Trains "files" area,
I have deleted the folder containing pix of my slide pickup design
for Gilbert Alco diesels. Anyone needing the info can find it at:

http://www.trainweb.org/sjsg/sjsg.htm

From the main page, click on "Projects" in the left sidebar.

Many thanx to The South Jersey S Gaugers for posting the material on
their own site.

Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19622 From: Neil Becker Date: 5/20/2002
Subject: Another AF transformer question.
During the last AF transformer thread I don't remember seeing an answer to
this question:

Does the wattage rating refer to the entire transformer or for each post
set? Is a 30B transformer 300W total and 150W per post set or 300W per post
set?

-------Original Message-------

From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:54:58 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1458

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There are 10 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: early K-5 chassis and pul-mors
From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
2. Talking Station
From: "dmsapadin" <dmsapadin@...>
3. BUDD SETS
From: anormal1@...
4. Magnetic glueing jigs
From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi <velapoldi@...>
5. TCA Museum
From: Thomas Curley <curleytf@...>
6. Re: TCA Museum
From: Don Thompson <robin@...>
7. New hoghead hatwear items announcement
From: HOGHEADHAT@...
8. Re: TCA Museum--presentation time avail?
From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
9. Pennsy S Models X-29 project update
From: Bill Lane <billlane@...>
10. Fwd: S Scale CAT Vehiles
From: "fjg1870" <waltdanylak@...>


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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 13:48:36 -0700
From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
Subject: Re: early K-5 chassis and pul-mors

Neil's solution is one I have used. I find the problem on Royal Blue locos
(Gee, why is that; maybe my Daylight conversion experiences??).
Another note: the diameters of the TIRES changes on AF locos. A combination
of the small tire and large tire on the same axle will cause "rocking" of
the chassis, leading to derailments. In mixing and matching parts to make
good running locos, one does have to be wary of manufacturing variances and
developments!
I agree with Tom J., I would think this difference would really show up
on Atlantic chassis, but I haven't experienced it YET. BTW, the filling of
the mount ears is noted in ACG repair sheets as necessary when installing
the larger FLANGED wheels. I'm lazy now, I usually use my Dermel tool!
S'
David D.



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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 22:33:45 -0000
From: "dmsapadin" <dmsapadin@...>
Subject: Talking Station

Hi:

I picked up a Mystic Talking Station (green roof) about 12 years ago
at a train show and finally got around to taking a look at it. (OK
I'm, a little slow!) I believe it has the original record in it -
does anyone know how you can tell if its the original record or not?
(One side of the label was literally stuck to the metal turntable and
I had to carefully pry it off). Amazingly, this unit works fine!
Light comes on and the record plays just like its supposed to! But if
it is the original record, I don't want to use it. I understand
replacement records are available somewhere. Does anyone know where
you can pick up a replacement record? It has one needle which seems
also to be original...does anyone know if/where you can pick up
needles for this thing? It also is missing a few of the plastic
windows and I'd be interested if there are replacement ones available.

Thanks,

David Sapadin
david@...



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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 20:42:41 EDT
From: anormal1@...
Subject: BUDD SETS

Hi,
I have sold the UP BUDD SET. I still have the chrome 4 car Santa Fe set
left for $300.00 shipping included. If you would like to see them they are
listed at www.americanmodels.com Click on the BUDD sets link Thank
You Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 12:40:09 +0200
From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi <velapoldi@...>
Subject: Magnetic glueing jigs

Hi all:
Has anyone used the magnetic glueing jigs available from micromark? Are
they useful? 10 1/4" x 10 1/4" seems slightly small for structures.
They do have a 6"x24" plate also. Any comments? Have you made your own?
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)



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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 06:56:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Thomas Curley <curleytf@...>
Subject: TCA Museum

A few weeks ago a message was posted on the
"Toy-Trains Group" from "rbclement@..."
asking for recommendations for future York meet. I
sent him the following request and thought others in
the group might be interested in doing something
similar.
***************************************************
Dear Clem,

I have attended every York meet since April of 1998
and look forward to the event with great anticipation.
I have also attended the talks given at the TCA
museum on each occasion. I must also state that I am
an S-Guage collector and run a mix of Am. Flyer, Am.
Models, and S-Helper equipment.

I realize that S-Guage only represents a small
percentage of the TCA membership, but the talks on the
Thursday before the meet are of little interest to the
S-Guage collectors. Even Am. Flyer (Lionel) has
little, if anything, to say about S-Guage. I think it
would be nice if part of that days activities would
include a presentation by representatives of S-Helper
Service and American Models, the other two large
manufacturers of S-Guage. There is an hour in the
middle of the afternoon that is open and perhaps that
time slot could be used.

I appreciate the opportunity to offer suggestions and
look forward to the meet in the fall.
*****************************************************

You never can tell???

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
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________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 10:15:34 -0400
From: Don Thompson <robin@...>
Subject: Re: TCA Museum

Dear Tom.
I am sure that S gauge could be included in these proceeding if we asked.
The
problem for us is two fold, first we are so busy packing and trying to get
everything ready for York this leaves us very little time in the morning to
stop by
the TCA museum.. This may change as I have put in to retire in the end of
June.
I guess as important is the fact that very few if any S gaugers show us for
this
meeting. Most of the real die hards have been in York the last few days at
the
unaffiliated train meets. All of our new products are usually on display at
our
booth in the Purple hall. I think that we are the sole S only mfg. who come
to York
so I am not sure who else would go to this event.
Don

Thomas Curley wrote:

> A few weeks ago a message was posted on the
> "Toy-Trains Group" from "rbclement@..."
> asking for recommendations for future York meet. I
> sent him the following request and thought others in
> the group might be interested in doing something
> similar.
> ***************************************************
> Dear Clem,
>
> I have attended every York meet since April of 1998
> and look forward to the event with great anticipation.
> I have also attended the talks given at the TCA
> museum on each occasion. I must also state that I am
> an S-Guage collector and run a mix of Am. Flyer, Am.
> Models, and S-Helper equipment.
>
> I realize that S-Guage only represents a small
> percentage of the TCA membership, but the talks on the
> Thursday before the meet are of little interest to the
> S-Guage collectors. Even Am. Flyer (Lionel) has
> little, if anything, to say about S-Guage. I think it
> would be nice if part of that days activities would
> include a presentation by representatives of S-Helper
> Service and American Models, the other two large
> manufacturers of S-Guage. There is an hour in the
> middle of the afternoon that is open and perhaps that
> time slot could be used.
>
> I appreciate the opportunity to offer suggestions and
> look forward to the meet in the fall.
> *****************************************************
>
> You never can tell???

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html




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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 10:59:33 EDT
From: HOGHEADHAT@...
Subject: New hoghead hatwear items announcement

Hello, we now have 54 different hatwear designs, the only RR logo hats made
in the USA! We now have RR logo direct embroidered golf shirts. New metal
signs, RR art prints which are matted and signed by RR artist Michael Scott
Kent $25 each + shipping. We will have RR art print magnets completed end of

the month. Send mailing address for flyer. website
http://cencalrails.railfan.net/hoghead.html
highball the rollbye! The new metal signs and BC RAIL & TP&W hats and golf
shirts will be uploaded to site early this week. Best regards, Kent Kahle
hoghead hatwear


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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 08:25:56 -0700
From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
Subject: Re: TCA Museum--presentation time avail?

Don,
I think you should re-consider this! The attendees may not be current S
gaugers, but there is definitely a potential for them to be Future S
Gaugers! They are a captive audience, already knowingly interested in toy OR
model trains. Ripe for the pickin'! You can't grow a lot by only preaching
to the choir. If you can't make it, find someone very familiar with your
product line, WITH samples, who is willing to be a "factory Rep" for a day,
and who is glib and comfortable speaking in public. There 'S'hould be a good
group of volunteers willing to do this--I know I would if I were going to be
back there (not that I'm all the glib or comfortable speaking, but I'd do it
for S).
S'
David D.



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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 11:44:52 -0400
From: Bill Lane <billlane@...>
Subject: Pennsy S Models X-29 project update

Hi Everyone,

It has been a while since I have posted an update on the Pennsy S Models
X-29 boxcar project. Once again, while we have been quiet, we have been
working. The latest delay has been worthwhile as we are achieving the
results we desire. This included contracting for some American made master
patterns and casting work. The next patterns to be made are for the
functional draft gear, and a WORKIING leaf spring set for the 2D-F19 truck.

Dan is trying to update the website www.pennsysmodels.com over the Memorial
Day weekend.

Delivery - Ah yes, the magical word. I hate to give a date because we have
passed them so many times before. We ARE
still working on the project. We have received photos of the 2D-F8 truck
from our builder this week. Our current and probably realistic goal is to
have a production sample of the REA car for the NASG convention in July. We
would like to thank everyone for your patience and continued support.

Bill Lane and Dan Mastrobuono

Pennsy S Models





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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 16:53:30 -0000
From: "fjg1870" <waltdanylak@...>
Subject: Fwd: S Scale CAT Vehiles

--- In S-Scale@y..., "fjg1870" <waltdanylak@c...> wrote:
I received a catalog recently that contains a number of 1/64 scale
Caterpillar vehiles that I was not aware of. The name of the company
is Norscot Scale Models. They do have a website, but it not up to
date according to the catalog I reveived.

There address is: www.norscot.com

Check it out if you're interested.

Walt Danylak
--- End forwarded message ---




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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19623 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 5/20/2002
Subject: CLASSIC TOY TRAINS DOES CARE
I have sent 2 articles to CTT,
neither of which were published.
Following is Roger's reply.

Glenn

Roger Carp wrote:
Dear Glenn,

Thanks for your letter and the ideas you shared. I had a great time at the
annual S Spree near Cincinnati over the weekend and met many terrific people
promoting S gauge.

Feel free to send more pictures of your layout to me. However, the level of
scenery is not what we typically showcase in our magazine. You can send photos
to me at Classic Toy Trains, 21027 Crossroads Circle, Box 1612,
Waukesha, WI 53187.

If there are articles you can write about repairing or restoring S gauge or
about notable S gauge items, please let me know.

It may be true that there are many knowledgeable people out there--but for
whatever reason, they are not coming forward or we are not finding them--and
number of manuscripts we have on S gauge topics is small.

So if you can write something or can provide a lead, I will be grateful and we
should be able to get more S gauge into CTT.

Sincerely,
Roger Carp
Associate Editor
Group: S-Trains Message: 19624 From: Doug Peck Date: 5/20/2002
Subject: Re: viruses
<<<One was from a "Jane Hall" and subject matter on some were "My Hometown".
Plus other senders.

One was from "Postmaster" and one had a subject of "click here to end
viruses". Yeah, right, destroy the hard drive is what it would of done!

Be careful and don't open anything from anyone you don't know!
>>>

Your last comment is even dangerous. I'm still receiving the KLEZ virus
multiple times on a daily basis, for the past 3 weeks or more. It sometimes
can APPEAR to come from someone you know ("person A"), but it DIDN'T come
from person A's computer. It came from an invisible third-party ("person B")
who happened to have person A in their address book, or had an email from
person A in their mailbox. So it's very deceiving. Luckily, my NORTON is
catching it every time it arrives. Moreover, when I do a full SCAN
(frequently, lately!), there's no sign of it here, so Norton is working!
My son, in the industry, reports an "upturn" in computer repairs coming in
due to KLEZ raising havoc with unprotected hard-drives. It's not as simple
as just emailing itself to your address book.

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST weeknights.
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please.)
Website: www.portlines.com
E-mail: doug@...
VISA--MASTERCARD--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19625 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/20/2002
Subject: Re: Extra stack, what is it?
> That little stack is for the exhaust for the booster engine on the
>trailing truck. This is yet one more example of the kind of details that
>Gilbert included on the American Flyer trains


So how come there's no booster on the trailing truck? What would it look
like? Sounds like a project
.
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19626 From: Roger Delthony Date: 5/20/2002
Subject: Klez virus
The Klez virus is alive and well and active out there. Sunday I received
17 'undeliverable mail' messages. 'Undeliverable mail' and a number of
variations on the mail delivery theme is one of the permutations of the
Klez virus. I double deleted them all without opening them. If you
receive an e-mail that in any way doesn't seem right, either e-mail the
sender to confirm its validity before you open it, or just double delete
it and get rid of it. Do yourself a favor and go to the McAfee or
Symantec websites and get familiar with this virus and the way to get
rid of it if you get infected.

Another location that talks about the Klez virus and describes some of
it's variations not covered on the above two sites is Wired News:

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,52174-2,00.html

Good luck.

Roger Delthony
Group: S-Trains Message: 19627 From: Dennis A Troini Date: 5/20/2002
Subject: Re: viruses
Another thing to look for is the Size of the received e-mail and try to
identify jpegs in it. Recently the incoming infected mail has been 100Kb
or larger (up to 154Kb). My Inbox is set to show me the size of the mail
package and the type of attachments. 100Kb with out images is really
quite large. Also try setting your Anti-virus to automatically
quarantine ALL e-mail on a separate drive ( not a partition) and do a
full scan before opening any mail. Caught one that migrates from 1 email
to another before doing its work. Nasty. You clean the 1st and do not
realize it has already moved to another e-mail.
Dennis

On Mon, 20 May 2002 16:10:44 -0400 "Doug Peck" <portlines@...>
writes:
> <<<One was from a "Jane Hall" and subject matter on some were "My
> Hometown".
> Plus other senders.
>
> One was from "Postmaster" and one had a subject of "click here to
> end
> viruses". Yeah, right, destroy the hard drive is what it would of
> done!
>
> Be careful and don't open anything from anyone you don't know!
> >>>
>
> Your last comment is even dangerous. I'm still receiving the KLEZ
> virus
> multiple times on a daily basis, for the past 3 weeks or more. It
> sometimes
> can APPEAR to come from someone you know ("person A"), but it DIDN'T
> come
> from person A's computer. It came from an invisible third-party
> ("person B")
> who happened to have person A in their address book, or had an email
> from
> person A in their mailbox. So it's very deceiving. Luckily, my
> NORTON is
> catching it every time it arrives. Moreover, when I do a full SCAN
> (frequently, lately!), there's no sign of it here, so Norton is
> working!
> My son, in the industry, reports an "upturn" in computer repairs
> coming in
> due to KLEZ raising havoc with unprotected hard-drives. It's not as
> simple
> as just emailing itself to your address book.
>
> Doug Peck
> Port Lines Hobby Supply
> 6 Storeybrooke Drive
> Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
> Shop Hours: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST weeknights.
> 978-465-8798
> 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please.)
> Website: www.portlines.com
> E-mail: doug@...
> VISA--MASTERCARD--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted.
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19628 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/20/2002
Subject: Sluggish Frogs
Hi All. Another switch question. What is the best remedy for sluggish
frogs on the flyer remote control switches? What can be lubricated to
make them swing easier? Increase the voltage? Thanks in advance for
the advice. So far all the answers have been right on. John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19629 From: Ron Inscho Date: 5/20/2002
Subject: Re: Extra stack, what is it?
Booster engines were a small two cylinder steam eng.hidden in the trailing
truck connected by an in & out clutch & gears to the rear axle on the
trailing truck.The purpose of this was to aid in starting a train as it was
not needed or used above 25 mph. Boosters were an expensive item to maintain
& not used on most railroads . The New York Central was one of the few
railroads that was willing to pay for this as it was useful in maintaing
train schedules on both pass. & frt.trains.There is'nt really much to see
from the outside on the trailing truck & that was also the serviceing
problem with them as the entire truck must be removed from the engine. At
major repair shops the NYC had machinest & mechanics that specialized in
nothing but booster engs.as far as makeing a booster for our trains I don't
think it is worth the effort ,although it could be possible to make exhaust
come out of the stack.
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19630 From: notcoldenough Date: 5/20/2002
Subject: Re: Another AF transformer question.
Neil wrote:
>Is a 30B transformer 300W total and 150W per post set or 300W per
post set? *

Does anybody know the wire gauges or diameters for each of the 3
windings on this transformer? Given that, one could use current
density in each winding (i.e., amps per square inch of wire diameter)
to get a rough estimate of the rating of each secondary.

I doubt it will be 300 watts per secondary.

John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 19631 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/20/2002
Subject: Re: Extra stack, what is it?
Thanks Ron, but I knew that. I was asking if anyone had a picture or a
descripion of a booster on a J-1 thru J-3 series NYC Hudson. I am not
looking to make it functional, but perhaps cosmetic and operable. Some
tenders had side drive rods on the trucks. What did the NYC use in this
instance?

Chris Zizzo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Inscho" <ronnat@...>
To: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>; "Chris Zizzo"
<busyboy@...>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 10:52 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Extra stack, what is it?


> Booster engines were a small two cylinder steam eng.hidden in the trailing
> truck connected by an in & out clutch & gears to the rear axle on the
> trailing truck.The purpose of this was to aid in starting a train as it
was
> not needed or used above 25 mph. Boosters were an expensive item to
maintain
> & not used on most railroads . The New York Central was one of the few
> railroads that was willing to pay for this as it was useful in maintaing
> train schedules on both pass. & frt.trains.There is'nt really much to see
> from the outside on the trailing truck & that was also the serviceing
> problem with them as the entire truck must be removed from the engine. At
> major repair shops the NYC had machinest & mechanics that specialized in
> nothing but booster engs.as far as makeing a booster for our trains I
don't
> think it is worth the effort ,although it could be possible to make
exhaust
> come out of the stack.
> >
> >
> >
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19632 From: Ron Inscho Date: 5/20/2002
Subject: Re: Extra stack, what is it?
With the exception of the IHB 0-8-0's tender truck boosters were not used on
the NYC . This kind of booster was even harder to maintain & as the coal was
used up & the tender became lighter these boosters were useless. This kind
should be easy to fake as all that is needed is small cranks & rods added to
the outside of the truck.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19633 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/20/2002
Subject: transformer wattage ratings
Wattage ratings for Lionel (sorry, Duck, hadda use the 'L' word again) and
Flyer transformers were arbitrary and capricious. They depend on load,
temperature, and probably, how the planets line up and whether they were
made on a Friday or Monday. I frankly don't see what the value of more
precise values would be.

What is important is to get a FEEL for what they can do in terms of
powering the trains and accessories you have. My understanding is that
most engineers in the steam era did not pay much attention to all the
gauges on the backhead, except perhaps the water glass. They ran their
engines "by ear", listening to the exhaust or 'stack talk", and by feel.
We should do the same when operating old toy trains.

Flyer transformers are consistent within the same model number in my
experience. I mostly use 4B and 18B transformers, and often replace one
with another for maintenance or whatever. There is never any change in
performance under the same load between identical units UNLESS something is
wrong with one of them, and in fact such a change or differential in
performance is a sure sign that something is wrong.

The only exception to this pattern that I can think of is with the smaller
turret transformers. There is a difference of several volts between the
low voltage plate and the first winding in these puppies, and if the roller
stays bridging these two points for any length of time, it can burn out the
first few windings in varying degrees. I have one of these and it puzzled
me for years. I thought the problem was due to my infant son feeding the
transformer apple juice from his baby bottle through the light bulb hole on
top of the unit. Nope. (Sept-Oct '98 S Gaugian Roundhouse)

By the way, if your trains suddenly start running faster or your light
bulbs suddenly start burning brighter, it can be a sign that the isolation
between primary and secondary is breaking down which can quickly create a
major fire hazard and toast all your equipment too. Whip any such
transformer out of service immediately and test it carefully for continuity
between primary and secondary -- there should never be any between these
two in any transformer. If there is, it usually means that the insulation
on the windings is breaking down and the unit should be scrapped. Dave
OItt once told me a story about how this happened to a Lionel (sorry again
D) guy running a ZW. He was real happy with the way his trains were
running better and better ! Caught it just in time. This is the only
instance I ever heard of this happening, but it can happen.

This comes back around to my original point. If you develop a feel for
your transformers and what they can and cannot do, you will be able to pick
up on problems in performance quickly. This is much more important than
determining the wattage rating.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19634 From: Paul Yorke Date: 5/21/2002
Subject: thefatearl@aol.com
Does anyone know thefatearl@..., please reply
off-list.

Thanks,
Paul

=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19635 From: Bill Clark Date: 5/21/2002
Subject: Bristol Club Pictures, BL-2!
The Bristol Club had our modular layout at the April Greenberg Show in
Wilmington, MA. I've posted pictures and a report on our website, including
pictures of a BL-2 recently completed by Tommy Robichaud. This is the BTS
kit we were waiting for so long, and it looks great!

Take a look, and let me know what you think!

http://www.trainweb.org/bristol-s-gauge/index.html

Then click "April 2002 Greenberg Show" to go to the pictures.

Thanks!
Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 19636 From: Ted Larson Date: 5/21/2002
Subject: Yahoo FREE???????
>>>>> From: "TCS" <oddballdecal@>
Subject: Fw: [alpsdecal] Yahoo returns pay groups to the table?
Please fill out the survey!! We want to keep Yahoo groups free!!
Tom Stolte
> http://sweepstakes.yahoo.com/groupspremiumsurvey2?source=

For those of you who have not gone to the survey, the amount of shared
files / photos / message archives that we use EXCEEDS the "free" limit
that Yahoo is "proposing". The survey did NOT state how much $$$ they
are considering charging. Regardless of what Yahoo decides, please
help minimize the size of our archives by minimizing the amount of the
previous message that you include in your REPLYs, and make sure that
the content of your REPLYs is likely to be of interest to many people,
and in keeping with the stated purpose of the list. Send your REPLY to
sender only if it is not a comment of general interest to the group.
This message sent whilst wearing my assistant administrator hat.



=====
Ted Larson

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19637 From: joshseltzer Date: 5/21/2002
Subject: NASG 2002 Convention Car Alert!
Almost 260 of the 300 cars we have ordered (and received) has been
sold. The prototype number X52002 is almost sold out, only 12 are
left. There are more of the number 2002 cars left. If you wish to
order cars, order forms are available on our web site www.cvsga.org.
Click on NASG 2002.

Josh Seltzer
Group: S-Trains Message: 19638 From: Ron Inscho Date: 5/21/2002
Subject: Fw: STACKS& BOOSTERS
> Sorry about the confusion . Here are the facts # 1 yes that stack on the
> Hudson is for the booster on the trailing truck of the engine . #2 there
is
> nothing to be seen on the outside of this kind of booster. #3 tender truck
> boosters were not used on passenger engines ,frt.& transfer engines that
did
> have this could have an exhaust stack on the locomotive but most did not.
> they usually just dumped the exhaust under the tender rather than route it
> to the front of the locomotive. #4 engines of the NYC that were equipped
> with ENGINE TRAILING TRUCK boosters were the following , all H 10 's J
> 1-2-&-3 K 5&6 L 1-2-&-3 .
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19639 From: Neimanis,V. [NCR] Date: 5/21/2002
Subject: Re: Sluggish Frogs
As I build my new layout, I overhauled each of the switches and frogs with
appropriate care before "permanent" installation. Nonetheless, I still
experienced problems from the test bench to the connected layout. My
experience has shown that the length of connector wiring and size of
transformer that supplies power could be key variables. The 4 colour "thin"
original wiring from the switch controllers could also increase line
resistance.

I have not entirely solved my problem, so other comments would be valuable.

V. Neimanis
Ottawa, Canada

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 02:31:21 -0000
From: "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
Subject: Sluggish Frogs

Hi All. Another switch question. What is the best remedy for sluggish
frogs on the flyer remote control switches? What can be lubricated to
make them swing easier? Increase the voltage? Thanks in advance for
the advice. So far all the answers have been right on. John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19640 From: knockbill Date: 5/21/2002
Subject: sluggish frogs
Hi
I run my switches on a transformer which supplies 21-22volts,,, I
believe the higher voltage will activate the solenoids faster, & not
allow them to get as warm as trying to "force" them to move on a
lower voltage, for a longer duration... Of course, as you stated, the
switches should be in good working order, and lubrcated.....
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 19641 From: Knight, Gene Date: 5/21/2002
Subject: sluggish frogs
I have sprayed mine lightly...and I do mean lightly with a little WD 40 and wiping off the excess. I also make sure they hve the higher voltage. When I throw the switch...the frogs snap right away.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19642 From: nhterpsfan Date: 5/21/2002
Subject: Fyi, a fun contest to win a free S-scale car
Hi all,

I thought this might be interesting to folks. RSSVP Models at this
website,

http://www.rssvpmodels.com

is having a word game contest to give away a free S-scale train car.
First person to completely solve a set of word puzzles correctly,
wins the car. Enjoy!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19643 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/22/2002
Subject: Re: sluggish frogs
--- In S-Trains@y..., "Knight, Gene" <knight@c...> wrote:
> I have sprayed mine lightly...and I do mean lightly with a little
WD 40 and wiping off the excess. I also make sure they hve the higher
voltage. When I throw the switch...the frogs snap right away.

Thanks to Gene and all who responded. I sprayed them with wd-40 and
applied the juice from the 15 volt terminal of the transformer
and "all the frogs are jumping now!" You folks are GREAT! Thanks
again,John.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19644 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 5/22/2002
Subject: Walthers catalog
The new Walthers sala catalog (June) has the new Modular Structure Kit on sale for $32.98. It's on page 39.

This would be a good opportunity to show some muscle by supporting a new S-scale supplier and letting Walthers know we're here

John Griffin
Group: S-Trains Message: 19645 From: Paul Yorke Date: 5/22/2002
Subject: PSL Train Show
Congrats to Bill and Milo, they were the hit of our local train show.
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/feature/psl_trainshow2_002.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 19646 From: Alex Date: 5/22/2002
Subject: Re: sluggish frogs
Hi John, and S-listers:

Keep an eye on those turnouts, as WD-40 sometimes gets quite gummy after a
short time. I'd avoid using it on assemblies where you can't necessarily get
at the innards too easily to clean 'em up later, such as when you have your
switches screwed down and scenicked.

I prefer using a high quality silicone-based "TV tuner" cleaner. Works for
me.

== Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-.-


-----Original Message-----
From: hcopter52 [mailto:hcopter51@...]
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 12:29 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: sluggish frogs


--- In S-Trains@y..., "Knight, Gene" <knight@c...> wrote:
> I have sprayed mine lightly...and I do mean lightly with a little
WD 40 and wiping off the excess. I also make sure they hve the higher
voltage. When I throw the switch...the frogs snap right away.

Thanks to Gene and all who responded. I sprayed them with wd-40 and
applied the juice from the 15 volt terminal of the transformer
and "all the frogs are jumping now!" You folks are GREAT! Thanks
again,John.


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All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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Group: S-Trains Message: 19647 From: David Dewey Date: 5/22/2002
Subject: Re: sluggish frogs
Sluggish frogs can be caused by gunk in the silenoid coil tube and in the
detent pawl cavity (the pointy thing that pushes against the throw arm). I
prefer to clean these with a good tuner cleaner--non-lubricating type. If
they need anything, I use dry powdered graphite, as I don't want to attract
dust to them. Dust harbors abrasive stuff and does lots of nasty things to
moving parts.
WD-40 is like Duct Tape; used to fix almost anything, but it is seldom
the correct solution!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19648 From: notcoldenough Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: Dual billboard whistle
I recently got a Flyer whistle that has two bill boards - one on each
side of the unit. The base design is also different from the more
common whistle units. See photo:

http://www.geocities.com/notcoldenough/DWhistle.jpg

Anybody know when these whistles might have been made? I'm guessing
pre war. Also what type of button might this whistle have used -
newer post war or the older type?

Any ideas would be appreciated.

John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 19649 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: Re: sluggish frogs
--- In S-Trains@y..., "David Dewey" <djdewey@c...> wrote:
> Sluggish frogs can be caused by gunk in the silenoid coil tube and
in the
> detent pawl cavity (the pointy thing that pushes against the throw
arm). I
> prefer to clean these with a good tuner cleaner--non-lubricating
type. If
> they need anything, I use dry powdered graphite, as I don't want to
attract
> dust to them. Dust harbors abrasive stuff and does lots of nasty
things to
> moving parts.
> WD-40 is like Duct Tape; used to fix almost anything, but it is
seldom
> the correct solution!
> S'
> David D.

I did not have any gunk in that cavity thing and the coil tube was
also ok. Adding extra voltage-using the fixed voltage terminal- of
the transformer seems to have made the difference.Thanks,John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19650 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: WD 40 oil
I don't use wd-40 on any of my train items. It and other
oils gum up after a
while. What happens is, the dust in the room accumulates in
the oil. Also the oil
dries out . However I do use wahl Hair clipper oil. This
seems to work for a very
long time with no problems. Remember you only need a tiny
bit of oil.
Never oil your couplers with any kind of oil. Use graphite
powder instead.
Messy, yes, but it works great.

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 19651 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: Uses for the 761 semaphore
Hey folks. What uses have you found for the 761 semaphore? I really
do not need to use mine to prevent rear-end collisions as I do not
run two trains on the same track. What other uses have people found
for it? Thanks to all,John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19652 From: hcopter52 Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: Back to Oil
Ok then, what is best to lubricate Locos and other rolling stock? I
will stay away from WD-40 as others have suggested. I wonder if Paul
ever did a poll on this. Please advise what to use. Thanks,John.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19653 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: Re: Back to Oil
Sewing machine or gun oil is the best oil for engine and rolling stock
lubrication etc., in my opinion. I will never gum up.

Carl

-----Original Message-----
From: hcopter52 [mailto:hcopter51@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 9:54 AM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Back to Oil


Ok then, what is best to lubricate Locos and other rolling stock? I
will stay away from WD-40 as others have suggested. I wonder if Paul
ever did a poll on this. Please advise what to use. Thanks,John.


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19654 From: bassflyer Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: 0il....
I use "Labelle 108" lubricating oil. I like the long skinny
metal tube,...makes it easy to get oil where ya want it, locos,
rolling stock, etc.

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19655 From: Rick Evans Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: The "Tehachapi Loop"....
Time flies when yer having fun! Two years ago I posted about my daughter and
I, headin' to the Tehachapi Loop, (here in Calif.)...and we are going again this weekend.

The "Loop" is where a very long train passes over itself. Completed in 1876, and claims to
be one of the seven wonders of the railroad world! The steep line averages 2.2% in gradient
in it's 28 mile length.

My daughter is excited about going again,...although I think she is more excited
about camping for a night than seeing the trains!

Hope you all have a great Memorial weekend!!


Rick.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19656 From: Robert Wight Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: Oil
What I do is go to the fleet farm supply store and buy a small hypodermic
needle and syringe and then I fill it with a good grade gun oil.You can buy
the same type thing made of plastic and expensive and you dont know for sure
what the oils is thats allready made. The fleet store one cost about 35
cents. then you know what oil is in it and it is refillable.
Bob Wight



Check Out My American Flyer Trains
http://www.boomspeed.com/bobgaylord/


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19657 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1462
John Glasal:
The Flyer whistle you refer to is a #2029 Remote control two tone
whistle cataloged in 1937, retail price $2.50. the control button is a
small rectangler flat metal box with a push button towards the bottom.

Jerry 77-11644

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19658 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: oil
Bob: there are not too many farm supply stores here in NYC, and if I tried
to buy a hypodermic I would likely get arrested. But if that jerk in the
cave keeps dropping jetliners on us, maybe I'll move out to where you are.

At least my switches would work better!

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19659 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: Re: Back to Oil
Wahl Clipper oil does not gum up. I have been using it since 1981 with no
problems.
While I am at it. White lithium grease for the loco gears. It doesn't thicken up.

Roger Hinds

hcopter52 wrote:

> Ok then, what is best to lubricate Locos and other rolling stock? I
> will stay away from WD-40 as others have suggested. I wonder if Paul
> ever did a poll on this. Please advise what to use. Thanks,John.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19660 From: dmsapadin Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: Thanks to Everyone!
After about 45 years I have finally found a little time and a little
space to set up my American Flyer trains and accessories that I have
kept since I was a kid. Thanks to everyone in this group who has
helped me re-orient myself and to everyone who has helped me with my
questions!!! Its amazing, everything still works!

David Sapadin
Group: S-Trains Message: 19661 From: dmsapadin Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: WD-40 vs. Oil
Does anyone know if WD-40 can be used on the AF accessory moving
parts or should you stick with good old fashioned 3-in-1 oil? How
about the engines?

Thanks,

David Sapadin
Group: S-Trains Message: 19662 From: notcoldenough Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: Re: WD 40 oil
I found the perfect use for WD 40 - use it for cleaning your hands.
Last summer I was pruning tree branches and got some tree pruning tar
on my hand - really sticky black stuff. Soap wouldn't touch the
stuff. I then sprayed a couple of shots of WD 40 on my hands & the
tar came right off.

This proved to me that WD 40 is more a solvent than a lubricant.

John Gasal


--- In S-Trains@y..., Roger Hinds <cofa@t...> wrote:
> I don't use wd-40 on any of my train items. It and other
> oils gum up after a
> while.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19663 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: lithium grease
Lithium grease does get hard. In fact, no other kind of grease get as hard
as lithium grease. I have not seen this very often, but one loco was a
real battle. Ended up having to carve the stuff off the gears with a
knife.

Tom Jarcho

P.S.: I read in the paper today that the police in Iran are running around
siezing Barbie dolls, because Barbie and Ken have been declared un-Islamic
or something. So guys, if you move to an Islamic country, hide those nice
Santa Fe diesels. Santa Fe was a Christian saint, right?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19664 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: Uses for the 761 semaphore
John: There are other uses for the semaphore besides preventing rear end
colisions -- that doesn't work that well anyway.

you can use it to hold one train while another runs thru a given area, for
example if you have two loops with a train on each, and you want the trains
to exchange loops. Or you can hold a train on the main line while another
train comes out of a siding and performs some switching operations or
whatever then returns to the siding.

you can connect it to a switch so it moves when the switch is thrown. Just
connect the colored wires to the switch posts, matching color to color.
Or, if you want the semaphore to be in the up position when the switch is
thrown to curved, reverse the red and green wires. This can give you an
easily visible indication of a switch at the far side of your layout, or a
switch in a tunnel.

As a further development of this, you can use the white wire to control a
stopping zone anywhere in the base post rail that depends on the position
of the switch. In this application the semaphore functions as a latching
relay and can prevent derailments at the switch in certain situations.

You can actuate a semaphore with push buttons. Connect the black wire to
base post and the red and green to push buttons connected to the fixed
voltage post. Connect the yellow wire to the fixed voltage post too to
power the semaphore bulb. In fact the 5 digit semaphore, the 23761, came
with a 2 button controller with one red and one green button.

You can also actuate a Flyer semaphore with a Flyer switch controller, or
half of a double switch controller. Just connect the like colored rainbow
wires together, connect the black and yellow switch box wires to the
transformer's base and fixed voltage posts respectively. Put electrical
tape over the splices in the rainbow wires to prevent shorts.

There are probably other things you can do with them as well.

Have fun.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19665 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/23/2002
Subject: Re: lithium grease
I put white lithium grease on my locos 20 years ago and they still run fine.
I still have the old container. The contents are like new.
The grease is the consistency of mayonnaise.
I wonder if straight lithium grease is different?

Roger

jarcho@... wrote:

> Lithium grease does get hard. In fact, no other kind of grease get as hard
> as lithium grease. I have not seen this very often, but one loco was a
> real battle. Ended up having to carve the stuff off the gears with a
> knife.
>
> Tom Jarcho


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19666 From: mark.p.baker@bt.com Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: CANCELLED! - Spring 2002 King's Cross Railway Book Fair
Please note that the Spring 2002 King's Cross Railway Book Fair has been
cancelled and will not go ahead tomorrow. The next event will be the Autumn
2002 King's Cross Railway Book Fair on Saturday, 23rd November 2002.


Mark P. Baker.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19669 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: Re: Tom's P.S.
Tom Jarcho wrote:

>if you move to an Islamic country, hide those nice
>Santa Fe diesels. Santa Fe was a Christian saint, right?

The phrase "Santa Fe" means "Holy Faith." I'm not sure how
dictatorial Islamic governments would react to a toy train so marked
but yer right, it might not be a good idea to go waving red and
silver War Bonnets that also sport the name "American Flyer" around
the streets of Tehran.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19670 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: LED'S
Hi Guys,
I need some help with a conversion. I have converted a 302
Atlantic to DC. I use a DC can motor, no rectifier. The thing I would like to
do is use an LED for the headlight. Can anyone recommend one & where to find
it. Also can it just be wired direct like the old lamp? Thanks, Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19671 From: Chuck Smith Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: Re: LED'S
Try Radio Shack for a 12V LED. Should wire directly to the old lamp
wires, but if you use more than 12 volts you might want to put a
resistor in series with it. You might get lucky and find one that fits
the opening and runs cool enough to not warp the plastic.

anormal1@... wrote:
>
> Hi Guys,
> I need some help with a conversion. I have converted a 302
> Atlantic to DC. I use a DC can motor, no rectifier. The thing I would like to
> do is use an LED for the headlight. Can anyone recommend one & where to find
> it. Also can it just be wired direct like the old lamp? Thanks, Mike
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 19672 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, May 26, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19673 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: Re: LED'S
Thank You Michael,
I was told the 5mm would fit with a
1000ohm res. Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19674 From: Ron Inscho Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: Re: LED'S
Yes this can be done but you must use a resistor I would say about 1.5 k as
led's can't stand more than 1-1/2 to 3 volts try Radio Shack & yes they have
those white / blue led's that every body is excited about
----- Original Message -----
From: <anormal1@...>
To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 6:11 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] LED'S


> Hi Guys,
> I need some help with a conversion. I have converted a 302
> Atlantic to DC. I use a DC can motor, no rectifier. The thing I would like
to
> do is use an LED for the headlight. Can anyone recommend one & where to
find
> it. Also can it just be wired direct like the old lamp? Thanks, Mike
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19675 From: Dennis A Troini Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: Re: Back to Oil
I have been using Teflon Powder , also from LaBelle, for 10 years. No
build up, no problems. Check LaBelle Industries. I use 104, 106, 111 and
134 as recommended.
Dennis
On Thu, 23 May 2002 14:54:27 -0000 "hcopter52" <hcopter51@...>
writes:
> Ok then, what is best to lubricate Locos and other rolling stock? I
> will stay away from WD-40 as others have suggested. I wonder if Paul
>
> ever did a poll on this. Please advise what to use. Thanks,John.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19676 From: Dennis A Troini Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: Re: oil
At most Computer Shows where Ink for refilling cartridges is available,
the kits include Syringes and needles. Vendors will usually sell you 3 or
4 extra for $.50 each. In the northeast check KGP Productions , Tristate
and Marketpro. Tom, Marketpro in the past had shows at the Chelsea Pier
twice a year.
On Thu, 23 May 2002 16:02:00 -0400 jarcho@... writes:
> Bob: there are not too many farm supply stores here in NYC, and if I
> tried
> to buy a hypodermic I would likely get arrested. But if that jerk
> in the
> cave keeps dropping jetliners on us, maybe I'll move out to where
> you are.
>
> At least my switches would work better!
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19677 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: LEDS
Thank all that have answered my question. I will try all the places that
were suggested. Will get back to you guys when I get one done that is a
finished conversion. I only convert the AF engines that are in need of paint &
/or motor work that cannot be left as an org. AF factory product.
The nicest are the 343's that are converted with the slow-scale speed can
for switching. I hope to convert one someday with no tender, a kinda Dockside
0-8-0. Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19678 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: Re: Back to Oil
A slightly off-topic request of the group, if you please.

I need a little help with lubrication for a small motorized mechanism. Ever
since I grew a beard, I've had to trim it 2 or 3 times a week and the use
has been hard on my clipper. I need to lubricate the blade assembly with an
appropriate light oil. This machine is made by Wahl. I want to use the
right thing so it doesn't gum up or get too heavy.

Can anybody who is knowledgeable about these things please lend a hand?

Thanks,
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19679 From: bassflyer Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: Re: Back to Oil
Chris says..**((Ever since I grew a beard, I've had to trim it 2 or
3 times a week and the use has been hard on my clipper. I need to
lubricate the blade assembly with an appropriate light oil. This
machine is made by Wahl. I want to use the right thing so it doesn't
gum up or get too heavy.))**

Aw nuts!! Ya need to oil these things??!!?? I am very guilty of
NOT oiling mine,...and I keep my beard very short, so I am always
trimming. I still have the oringinal little oil thingie from my first
Wahl trimmer,...I have since bought a new trimmer, mainly because the
battery in the old one wouldn't keep a charge. The new trimmer plugs
in or runs on the battery.
Ya might be able to find Wahl oil Chris. Check the Wahl
website,..if they have one. Or call Wahl,...I should have the # here
somewhere.

Off to the "Loop" in the a.m....everyone have a good weekend!!

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19680 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: BACK TO OIL
Chris,
Have you tried a product called "Elbow Grease." It was popular in
the early forties to the late fifties. You might have to try E-BAY as I have
not seen this in a long time. Good luck in your quest, Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19681 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/24/2002
Subject: TEST ONLY
Test


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19682 From: Tim Brown Date: 5/25/2002
Subject: Re: Back to Oil
Chris & All,

I have a professional grade Oster clipper I use on my beard (I originally bought it for my pets). In between use, I brush off any loose clippings, then spray the blades with Oster Kool Lub3, while the clippers are running. This was recommended by the manufacturer. Periodically, I carefully dip the blades in Blade Wash to clean them while the clipper is running. I turn the clipper off, pat the blades dry, turn it on, and spray the blades with the Kool Lube. The manufacturer also recommends using their lubricating oil. It all seems like overkill to me, but hopefully the blades will stay sharp a long time.

Keep in mind that beards are like wire, so no set of clipper blades will last indefinitely, regardless of how much we spend on cleaning/lubricating products. Proper care should help to prolong their life, tho'.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Zizzo
To: slist
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 12:14 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Back to Oil


A slightly off-topic request of the group, if you please.

I need a little help with lubrication for a small motorized mechanism. Ever
since I grew a beard, I've had to trim it 2 or 3 times a week and the use
has been hard on my clipper. I need to lubricate the blade assembly with an
appropriate light oil. This machine is made by Wahl. I want to use the
right thing so it doesn't gum up or get too heavy.

Can anybody who is knowledgeable about these things please lend a hand?

Thanks,
Chris Zizzo



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All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19683 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 5/25/2002
Subject: Clipper Oil Sources
Chris,

In your hunt for clipper oil, try local beauty supply stores. They carry
such items that are used in barber/beauty salons. Sally Beauty Supply is
a chain in St. Louis. Local drug stores probably carry it in small
quantities.

I had to remove my beard once for a new job. It's amazing how short the
sideburns can get in an attempt to keep them even.

Bill

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19684 From: David Dewey Date: 5/25/2002
Subject: Re: Clipper Oil Sources
Hey Bill,
Too late now, but no one sees both sides of your face at once! ;-)
I was once at a very prestigious car show, drooling over a nice Model A
Vicky with dual sidemounts. Something wasn't just right, but I couldn't
figure it out. Talked to the owner, and he was suprised that I was confused.
Finally suggested that I look at the wheels. Hmmm, Passenger's side, green,
Driver's side, black--AH HA!!! He said very few people ever notice, not
even the car judges. His wife liked green wheels, he prefered black, since
it had sidemounts, he even had matching spares!
Hmm, maybe we could double our motive power collections; paint one side
one RR, the other side another RR---!! (required train content) ;-) Of
course, if you're doing late SP era, you just need grimy grey-black, no
lettering even! (the infamous SP "stealth" locomotives)
S'
David D.
Stuck at home instead of at the train show--truck overheating!!! AAAUGH!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19685 From: lou342ac Date: 5/25/2002
Subject: Re: Clipper Oil Sources
Walmart carries 'Wahl Oil' if you can't find it locally try 'Micro-
Mark' which carries the product.

Goto their WebSite 'www.micromark.com' and use the product search
button and type in 'wahl oil'.
Lou


--- In S-Trains@y..., wmhtreftsv@j... wrote:
> Chris,
>
> In your hunt for clipper oil, try local beauty supply stores. They
carry
> such items that are used in barber/beauty salons. Sally Beauty
Supply is
> a chain in St. Louis. Local drug stores probably carry it in small
> quantities.
>
> I had to remove my beard once for a new job. It's amazing how
short the
> sideburns can get in an attempt to keep them even.
>
> Bill
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19686 From: Robert E. Yablonski Date: 5/25/2002
Subject: LED
Guys.

LED's are Diodes, and only pass current in one direction. Most require some sort of dropping resistor. The new ultrabright whites are great. Most all LED's work best with between 10 milli amps and 20 milli amps of current. The diodes drop about 2.0 to 2.5 volts.

Using a transformer with 18 Vrms output, the peak voltage would be 18 * root 2 or 18 *1.414 = 25.45 volts. To set the current at 20ma we need a resistor. Subtract the drop from the LED from the peak voltage. 25.4 - 2.4 = 23 volts. Divide this by 20ma, 25.4 /.02 = 1272 ohms. You could use a 1.2K ohm resistor.

This gives you a light that will vary in brightness as the train is going faster.

A better solution would be to regulate the brightness by turning the AC into DC, and regulating the result to give a constant brightness. There are a lot of solutions to this problem, all requiring a bit of circuitry.

If the club is interested I could design a real small circuit which would do this and lay it out on a PCB. It would take about $2500 to do this with the end result being about 200 boards. So if you guys are interested let me know.

PS the circuit would be useable inside any passenger car or structure to give constant light intensity. I would put an adjustment on it to accomodate various different LED brightness.

Sincerely,

R. Yablonski


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19687 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/25/2002
Subject: LED
If you are going to mass produce a run of constant lighting circuits,
wouldn't it be better to have them built to withstand 24 volts? Would it
still work with an 18 or 19 volt max transformer such as an 18B? This is
the max a ZW puts out with the whistle controller triggered at full speed.
Some guys do run Flyer with ZW's.

Bob, I' appreciate some clarification on this if you have the time.
Thanks. Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19688 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/25/2002
Subject: LED vs Light bulbs
LED needs to be used on DC only
Light bulbs DC or AC
I have been using the same light bulbs on my layout for 20 years.
I wired in a rheostat to drop the voltage which dims the bulbs. Modeling
bulbs are to bright to begin with. A rheostat is a variable resistor. Mine will take
a load of over 3 amps. I have one rated for 20 amps.

Roger Hinds

jarcho@... wrote:

> If you are going to mass produce a run of constant lighting circuits,
> wouldn't it be better to have them built to withstand 24 volts? Would it
> still work with an 18 or 19 volt max transformer such as an 18B? This is
> the max a ZW puts out with the whistle controller triggered at full speed.
> Some guys do run Flyer with ZW's.
>
> Bob, I' appreciate some clarification on this if you have the time.
> Thanks. Tom Jarcho
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19689 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/25/2002
Subject: Ah-HAH!!!
So, it is being implemented. Yahoo's "Premium Service" is underway,
apparently.

While continuing my attempts to get my "full size view" working in
the photo area, I hit "View List", and found this little item above
the list:

"* Public sharing of files/full-size images only available for
Premium Service users."

That wasn't there the last time I viewed the list.

Could that be what Yahoo's "Help" people were talking about when they
told me that the "current" version of Yahoo!Groups doesn't support
that feature? If so, it means they began to implement their service
changes BEFORE their customer survey was even completed! As someone
else posted, it almost looks as though that survey Yahoo took was not
to poll customer reaction, but was done simply to provide
justification for changes they were already making.

So as not to provide Yahoo with content that I myself cannot access,
and to open up more space in what may turn out to be an
overloaded "Free 'Service'" Photo area, I have deleted all the pix I
had posted in the Photos and Files areas, including 178 pix of S-
usable vehicles. If there's enough room in the re-hashed "Free"
system once they get done with gutting it, I may repost the images in
smaller sizes that anyone can view.

Sorry if this disappoints anyone. (Yeah, right! You guys just
couldn't LIVE without seeing my work! ;^D) I simply refuse to supply
Yahoo with material they won't let me see, just so they can exploit
it for their "Premium Service." Nope, not gonna do that. Don't have
to. Don't want to.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19690 From: notcoldenough Date: 5/25/2002
Subject: Re: Back to Oil
> Chris wrote asking what type of oil to use in a Wahl clipper

Chris,

I'd recommend using WD 40 in your Wahl hair clipper. It is readily
available and is inexpensive. It does tend to gum up, but the
clipper has enough power to over come this and still cut without
pulling your whiskers too bad.

The best thing about using WD 40, is that you can then take the Wahl
clipper oil that came with your clipper and use it to lubricate your
trains!

Gotta go now. My wife is baking cookies & needs my WD 40 to grease
the cookie sheet.

John



Chris wrote:
I need to lubricate the blade assembly with an
> appropriate light oil. This machine is made by Wahl. I want to
use the
> right thing so it doesn't gum up or get too heavy.
> Can anybody who is knowledgeable about these things please lend a
hand?
>
> Thanks,
> Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19691 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 5/25/2002
Subject: Re: Ah-HAH!!!
Yahoo has HELP people????? real, live people??? where do you find them???
This is interesting.
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19692 From: Paul Yorke Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Yahoo - Pay as you go - Off Topic
Today I noticed something on the Yahoo Groups page
http://groups.yahoo.com/ that I had not noticed in the past.
---------------------------------------
Need Advice?
We're proud to offer you the Yahoo! Advice service. First $5 call is
free!
---------------------------------------
But I must also add that all of us list members, especially the ones
with graying hair should be old enough and smart enough to realize that
the 'American way' is 'Free Enterprise' and the emphasis is on
Enterprise. I am sure that your dad, like my dad, told you 'there's no
FREE lunch'.

If you find a better list server that is 'more' free, please let me
know.

If you have photos that you want to share, I can incorporate them into a
web page and put them on S-Trains.com. I think my website format is
easier to browse and more enjoyable than the Yahoo file or photo
section. You might also consider starting your own webpage.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19693 From: Don Thompson Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Re: FGEX reefer and still more blatant merchandising
Dear Bud,
More FGEXs are coming. To be honest, I was very timid about making FGEX
reefers. Sure, they had the largest fleet of wooden reefers in the 50's thru
70's. And yes, over 60 railroads were partners in this venture. But, they
are not very colorful when compared to our Billboard schemes. Hey, my
railroad was a partner too, so what the heck and we made the three car sets.
Now here is the funny part, they sold out before the PFE and BREX (we still
have a few of the NWXs).
Our next run of reefers (yes, more are coming as we just sold out of the
Kraft, Edelweiss and CN #1) will be here this fall. But, I felt we should
take a little of the money from the car that could and re-invest to expand the
prototype. Our builder has started the tooling to make a steel roof and also
allow us to upgrade our fleet to the 1934 AB brake standards. Yes, the ice
hatch doors will still open, but you will find the plug with two lift rings.
The underframe will now be the straight 50 ton (vs. the 40 ton USRA/ fish
belly). The ends will feature Ajax brake wheel and housing.
I have to send the PO on June 1st, but I think another run of the FGEX
cars (with either the san serif lettering or the traditional lettering but
decorated for the double deck scheme) is in order. For your PFE fans, the
last double herald scheme will also be offered.
Don


-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 19694 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Re: Ah-HAH!!!
Chuck is really pissed about Yahoo (again):

Chuck:
All your very good comments notwithstanding, entertain for a moment the
following hypothesis:

You are Mr. Yahoo and you start an internet venue that provides all sorts of
services including mail lists, chat rooms, search engines, dating services
and so on. You use up prodigious amounts of bandwidth and the people (of
the whole world) love your service and use it constantly. Now, here is my
question.

How do you make your money? You are laying out millions to run the servers,
design the pages, compile the software and do the 24/7 work required. How
do you turn this venture into a profit maker so your family can eat?

Mr. Yahoo, you have two choices; the same two faced by television
executives. You can charge your subscribers for services or you can get
advertisers to pay your bills in exchange for featuring their products
prominently on your website. The people, especially a guy named Chuck,
won't like either solution. Having enjoyed free stuff for awhile, the
public is reticent to pay for it or have it mucked up with ads. They want
you to continue giving it to them for free. They start to write angry
letters about how nervy it is of you to expect payment for what you have
devoted your entire life to doing.

Well, that's my hypothetical situation; walking in the other man's shoes. I
just threw it out there because sometimes it's hard to see both sides of the
problem.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19695 From: Don Thompson Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Re: Ah-HAH!!!
Dear Chris,
There is a third choice. You could have the government start National Public
Yahoo and then beg for money every few weeks to keep the site open.
Don

Chris Zizzo wrote:

> Chuck is really pissed about Yahoo (again):
>
> Chuck:
> All your very good comments notwithstanding, entertain for a moment the
> following hypothesis:
>
> ...Mr. Yahoo, you have two choices; the same two faced by television
> executives.
>
> Chris Zizzo

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 19696 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Re: Back to Oil
Many thanks to all who responded to my query. Most of you were so sincere I
now feel like a rat. I just wanted to ask a question where the correct
answer would be "Wahl Clipper Oil"!

A couple of you got the joke. (Elbow Grease, WD-40 & save the Clipper Oil
for trains, etc.)
Some of you recommended OTHER products to lubricate a Wahl Clipper!
Amazing, and informative. How come nobody ever recommended Oster Kool-Lube
for trains??

Anyway, that was kinda fun. See you in chat tonight.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19697 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Re: Ah-HAH!!!
Dear Mr. Yahoo:

Oh, I almost forgot. There is a third choice. You could have the
government start National Public Yahoo and then beg for money every few
weeks to keep the site open.

"We'll get back to the great S gauge pictures you all love . . . no, WE all
love, in just a few minutes. And a few minutes is all it will take for you
to become a member of NPY and support these great JPEG images, not to
mention all the chat rooms and mail lists that, in themselves, support these
images. Just think what life would be like if suddenly, NPY could not
afford the bandwidth it takes to keep all of this going. All it takes from
you is a pledge, whatever you can afford. And don't forget the gift that
keeps on giving. After you're gone, and your wife has sold all your trains,
the proceeds from that sale can help provide those who follow the pleasure
of enjoying toy trains too! Your enduring support through a bequest will
keep Yahoo going as a testament to your enthusiasm for this great hobby.
Join NPY now and make it a part of your life, a part of your family's life
for years to come . . . We'll be back to our images in just a minute, but
first, take a look at this 'S-Trains' canvas tote bag, complete with a
genuine reproduction of a #630 caboose, and it's yours for a pledge at the
$50 level. Or . . ."

Whaddya say Chuck? How's option # 3 look?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19698 From: Michael Greene Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Re: Ah-HAH!!!
Chris has really hit the nail on the head. As much as we all like to
complain about Yahoo, the reality is that they provide a set of services
used by a lot of people -- ALL FOR FREE. We clearly get more than what we
pay for.

There are other options:

1) Move your activity off Yahoo's service -- but this just means someone
else pays. I've started a club mailing list using the facilities I have
available on a commercial web site hosting service I use. This avoids
privacy issues, cookies, spam, etc. But this just means the mail traffic is
now considered part of the monthly bandwidth included & used in my monthly
hosting package. (In this case the list traffic is estimated to be very
small, and I have lots of excess unused bandwidth per month at the moment
anyway.)

2) Pay by the message. -- Instead of having a monthly fee, perhaps every
user of the service could open a standing account against a credit card.
Every message you send, every file you upload and download, every poll you
create and respond to will have a fee associated with it. I would suggest
all messages be charged to their sender, and perhaps the fee could be
character based, so that those people who send nice short emails would be
rewarded for not resending the archive with just one more comment. How much
email traffic would we see then.

There are clearly a lot of options for how to pay. But the fact is that
someone must pay -- services, support, utilities, building space, etc. are
not free.

Michael

At 10:31 AM 5/26/2002 -0400, Chris Zizzo wrote:
>Chuck is really pissed about Yahoo (again):
>
>Chuck:
>All your very good comments notwithstanding, entertain for a moment the
>following hypothesis:
>
>You are Mr. Yahoo and you start an internet venue that provides all sorts of
>services including mail lists, chat rooms, search engines, dating services
>and so on. You use up prodigious amounts of bandwidth and the people (of
>the whole world) love your service and use it constantly. Now, here is my
>question.
>
>How do you make your money? You are laying out millions to run the servers,
>design the pages, compile the software and do the 24/7 work required. How
>do you turn this venture into a profit maker so your family can eat?

<snip>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Greene Dunstable, MA, USA
Member: NMRA(Life), NASG, Bristol S Gaugers, NTRAK, TCA, The 470 Railroad
Club

Bristol S Gaugers http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com
National Assoc. of S Gaugers http://www.nasg.org
Maine Railroads (including DCC Corner) http://www.mainerailroads.org

need a good web hosting service? see http://www.fivebuckhost.com/?r=mgreenej
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Group: S-Trains Message: 19699 From: Tom Pennington Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Re: Ah-HAH!!!
Let's look at this from another angle. Yahoo (and other sites) provide the
infrastructure to make these types of services possible. However, to get
advertisers, they must have content, just like a TV network has to have
viewers. We (the members of all the various groups) provide that content
to Yahoo for free. This attracts more users, and allows Yahoo to up the
price charged per advertisement. Without the content WE provide, Yahoo
would die on the vine very fast. The issue then becomes how to display
advertisements in a manner that does not drive users away. Non-animated
banner ads at the top of the pages, that do not significantly impair
performance are not a real problem. Having a full page ad that you have to
key thru to get what you want is not only irritating, it probably does NOT
server the advertisers purpose, much like the lovely X10 ads. Everyone saw
them, the company spent LOTS of money on it, but nobody bought the
product. The ads simply got in the way and most people killed the window
as soon as it appeared. On the other hand, a banner ad on a page you are
going to read has a much better chance of catching your attention, without
pissing you off, and therefore a better chance of succeeding. If Yahoo put
a 4-5 line ad on the top of each message page, they would have a HUGE
number of hits, and could probably sell enough to pay for the cost and make
a nice profit as well. On the other hand, requiring us to pay to provide
the content they need is not going to work in the long run, as enough
people will simply find other means of communicating that do not cost. My
.02 cents worth.

Tom
Group: S-Trains Message: 19700 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Ah-HAH!!!
I am not a business person. but my impression of Yahoo and similar
companies is that, rather than build a solid business that pays, they
leverage initial success to expand and acquire until they hit a wall.
Then, they have to milk every conceivable revenue source dry. i suspect
that that is what we are up against here. Rather than just pay for the
services we receive, we have to bankroll their foolish failures too.

Instead of just the pop up ads, which are easy to deal with, I am now
getting a flood of junk emails, sometimes one every ten minutes or so.
Plus, I may have to pay a fee for premium service. This strikes me as a
higher price than I am willing to pay.

If so, I will just go back to communicating by snail mail and through my S
Gaugian articles. It's a little slower, but it was working fine before
Yahoo came along.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19701 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Oil & longevity
I am wondering about how long other people have been using the different
oils.
I have been using wahl clipper oil for 20+ years with no gumming up of the oil.
Principally I use it to make my AF trains run extremely slow even through
track switches.
So the question is, how long have you other fellow"S" been using the other oils?

Roger Hinds

Chris Zizzo wrote:

> Many thanks to all who responded to my query. Most of you were so sincere I
> now feel like a rat. I just wanted to ask a question where the correct
> answer would be "Wahl Clipper Oil"!
>
> A couple of you got the joke. (Elbow Grease, WD-40 & save the Clipper Oil
> for trains, etc.)
> Some of you recommended OTHER products to lubricate a Wahl Clipper!
> Amazing, and informative. How come nobody ever recommended Oster Kool-Lube
> for trains??
>
> Anyway, that was kinda fun. See you in chat tonight.
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19702 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Re: Ah-HAH!!!
> We clearly get more than what we pay for.
> Michael

I wonder if this includes SPAM? Yes, I am getting Spam from yahoo users.

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 19703 From: Chuck Smith Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Re: Oil & longevity
Maybe the reason WD40 doesn't gum up for some people is the fact that
it's a lousy lubricant, comprised mostly of solvents that evaporate.
I.e.., good for loosening things up, not a good lubricant. I use it
often but only where I want the solvent properties. For oiling trains I
use LaBelle very sparingly.

Roger Hinds wrote:
>
> I am wondering about how long other people have been using the different
> oils.
> I have been using wahl clipper oil for 20+ years with no gumming up of the oil.
> Principally I use it to make my AF trains run extremely slow even through
> track switches.
> So the question is, how long have you other fellow"S" been using the other oils?
>
> Roger Hinds
>
> Chris Zizzo wrote:
>
> > Many thanks to all who responded to my query. Most of you were so sincere I
> > now feel like a rat. I just wanted to ask a question where the correct
> > answer would be "Wahl Clipper Oil"!
> >
> > A couple of you got the joke. (Elbow Grease, WD-40 & save the Clipper Oil
> > for trains, etc.)
> > Some of you recommended OTHER products to lubricate a Wahl Clipper!
> > Amazing, and informative. How come nobody ever recommended Oster Kool-Lube
> > for trains??
> >
> > Anyway, that was kinda fun. See you in chat tonight.
> >
> > Chris Zizzo
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 19704 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, May 26, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19705 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Contact
If Nelson Steinmetz is on either of the s-lists, would you please
contact me off list? Or: if anyone knows his e-mail or snail mail
address, please advise me off list.
Tx very much,
Rance Velapoldi
Group: S-Trains Message: 19706 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: OT:Re: Ah-HAH!!!
Chris Zizzo <busyboy@o...> wrote:

>entertain for a moment the following hypothesis:
>You are Mr. Yahoo and you start an internet venue that provides all
>sorts of (snip for brevity) How do you make your money?

The same way Yahoo's BEEN making money from the start. The same way
TV, film, and radio production companies do: Advertising. I've
already said in previous posts that I'd prefer ads (within reason) to
being charged. (Yes, I took Yahoo's survey, and told THEM the same
thing, at least to the extent that the survey form would allow such a
message to be recorded.)


>Mr. Yahoo, you have two choices; the same two faced by television
>executives. You can charge your subscribers for services or you can
>get advertisers to pay your bills in exchange for featuring their
>products

Yahoo is trying to do BOTH, apparently.

And there's one critical aspect of the TV industry to consider: Who
supplies the marketable CONTENT? How long would NBC, CBS, ABC etc.
have survived if they not only ran commercials and charged their
viewers, but also DEMANDED THAT THOSE VIEWERS SUPPLY THE
CONTENT! "Yes folks, for just a few dollars a month, you can send us
your own sitcoms shot with your equipment on your time at your
expense, we'll sprinkle them with commercials and put them on the air
so we can siphon money from other chumps! Can we mention again that
you'll pay US for letting you have all this fun? How much can we
shake you down for? Please tell us in this survey..."

In the TV-Radio-magazine-billboard world (where there are no active
links, btw), the producers of content are paid BY the broadcasters,
they don't pay the broadcasters to run their programs. The
broadcasters are paid by advertisers (as you pointed out, and as I've
already said, that's fine with me.)

What you and I and everybody else posts here is CONTENT. It's the
very thing that "viewers" come here to see. Nobody logs on with Yahoo
just to see ads, or to find a place to shovel more money.

Nevertheless, I'm not demanding to be paid by Yahoo for helping to
provide them with their one valuable product. But I will not let them
CHARGE me for the "privilege" of helping them profit from advertising.
THEY are the ones who "can't have it both ways."

Yahoo has been making money from the start, Why else would they have
acquired Egroups? They just want MORE, however they can get it. It's
reflected in their own survey. Their approach wasn't "We're losing
money here, and we need to charge subscribers $X a month. How many
can stay with us for that?" No, their come-on was, "Will you pay $X?
You WILL? How about $XX? Will you still put up with ads? How many? A
few? A lot? Just how big a sucker ARE you?" They were testing the
limits, because they want to push the limits.

While we're on the idea of "free enterprise", I hope we can all tell
the difference between "enterprise" and greed. They are not synonyms.
Free enterprise (which we don't really have in this country anymore
anyway) will only flourish where greed is minimized. Greed, trying to
squeeze as much as you can out of people, will kill free enterprise,
and greed is one of the reasons the enterprise in this country is no
longer truly free.


>They start to write angry letters about how nervy it is of you to
>expect payment for what you have devoted your entire life to doing.

Chris, that simply isn't fair. That may be how YOU think I see the
situation, but it isn't how I see it, or the way it really is. And
how "nervy" is it of Yahoo to expect me to pay them to provide them
with their reason for existence?


>Well, that's my hypothetical situation;
>I just threw it out there because sometimes it's hard to see both
>sides of the problem.

Well then, perhaps my remarks above have illustrated the true
situation more completely. Not that I expect Yahoo to change their
minds. But if someone reading this is spurred to consider the
situation from ALL sides (not just Yahoo's), and decides not to be
taken in, then it's worth it.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19707 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Re: Ah-HAH!!!
Don Thompson <robin@s...>wrote:

>There is a third choice. You could have the government start National
>Public Yahoo

LOL! Isn't that redundant?


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19708 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: Re: Ah-HAH!!!
Chris Zizzo <busyboy@o...>wrote:

>Oh, I almost forgot. There is a third choice. You could have the
>government start National Public Yahoo and then beg for money every
>few weeks to keep the site open.

The government wouldn't BEG for money, they'd extort it through
taxation, just like they do for the N.E.A. Ok, ok, they'd tax us and
STILL beg for money.


>Whaddya say Chuck? How's option # 3 look?

Actually, your scenario reminded me of a certain "viewer supported"
TV station I once worked for. Made me a little nostalgic (sniff.) ;^)

Again, I never said I was against reasonable ad content, free
enterprise, Yahoo making a profit, etc. I just don't see why I should
furnish the product AND pay. What's "anti-free enterprise" about that?


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19709 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: AHA! and What do I do to chat??
Hey gang-i agree that Yahoo is run by a buncha yahoos.
I just love their so-called tech help-they have a Q&A
page where someone will hopefully know what your
problem is and maybe send you the solution. Yeah,
right. So:I can't use chat-again.I get an "illegal
operation" shutdown, usually as soon as the chat site
opens, but sometimes, like last week, I can send a
coupla lines before that happens. When I attempt to
reconnect, I wind up in my very alone, me only
S-Trains chat room. What gives? BTW YMSGR bombs me the
same way, every time I log on for the first time, when
the "offline messages" window opens. Same if I open
offline messages on my own. Yours in computer
hell-john marganski

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19710 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/26/2002
Subject: The Saga Continues...
Just went to the S Trains Photos area again, and tried to view its
contents in the "List" mode. Yahoo has cleaned up the format of the
list page considerably, AND they have removed the message (which I
had cut and pasted to a previous post) about full size images being
viewable by Premium Service subscribers only. Still can't view images
full size, but now there's nothing telling us why. S'pose somebody at
Yahoo jumped the gun posting that message?
Hmmmm...


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19711 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: Bachmann kit bashed reefer
http://www.waltshobbyshop.com/converting_a_bachmann.htm
Jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19712 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: an S manufacturer
http://www.stoneycreekdesigns.com/
Jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19713 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: Paper Buildings
http://www.westportmodelworks.com/index.htm
Jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19714 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: signs
http://www.trainweb.org/tylick/signvin.htm


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19715 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: signs
http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/eaa/browse.html
Jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19716 From: Paul Yorke Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: Number Fun or S-Trains Traffic Trends
For those of you that like to play with numbers...
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/trends1.gif
Group: S-Trains Message: 19717 From: eldub44 Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: Getting Started AGain-Building a Layout
Hi:

Ok, so I am now at that time in my life when the there is going to be
room to again build a layout. We are in constuction of a new home
with a basement. An area of 12' x 18' has been set aside for
building a new layout (benchwork-preferred).

As many of us, model railroading was a childhood adventure supported
by ones father--actully my Grandfather was the moving force. In any
case. The collection was put aside and in boxes for many years,
other than to erect a 4' x 8' during the holiday's and then take it
down again.

Now it's time to get back into it and have some fun.

The foundations for the house are now being poured. So, it's time to
begin thinking about the layout design.. this is where I need some
support, direction and guidence.

My collection is both "O" guage and "S" guage, with about 20% "O"
(Lionel)and 80% "S" (American Flyer).

All rolling stock, engines, accessories are pre 1960. Included are
many misc. cars, trucks, buildings as well as the usual water towers,
oil derricks, log loaders, cattle loader, log loader, talking
station,, bill boards, hand cars, etc.

Within the new layout I wish to incorporate multi levels with a
scenic replication of the Stamboat Srpings, CO area, to iclude the
main street, Yamap river and the mountain.

I suppose this project needs to be approached in an orderly way...
so, now it's time for advice regarding the layout.

Hope to hear from You. By the way. I live in the Los Angeles,
Area,, Pacific Palisades.

Thanks,

Larry
Group: S-Trains Message: 19718 From: eldub44 Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: Getting Started AGain-Building a Layout
Hi:

Ok, so I am now at that time in my life when the there is going to be
room to again build a layout. We are in constuction of a new home
with a basement. An area of 12' x 18' has been set aside for
building a new layout (benchwork-preferred).

As many of us, model railroading was a childhood adventure supported
by ones father--actully my Grandfather was the moving force. In any
case. The collection was put aside and in boxes for many years,
other than to erect a 4' x 8' during the holiday's and then take it
down again.

Now it's time to get back into it and have some fun.

The foundations for the house are now being poured. So, it's time to
begin thinking about the layout design.. this is where I need some
support, direction and guidence.

My collection is both "O" guage and "S" guage, with about 20% "O"
(Lionel)and 80% "S" (American Flyer).

All rolling stock, engines, accessories are pre 1960. Included are
many misc. cars, trucks, buildings as well as the usual water towers,
oil derricks, log loaders, cattle loader, log loader, talking
station,, bill boards, hand cars, etc.

Within the new layout I wish to incorporate multi levels with a
scenic replication of the Stamboat Srpings, CO area, to iclude the
main street, Yamap river and the mountain.

I suppose this project needs to be approached in an orderly way...
so, now it's time for advice regarding the layout.

Hope to hear from You. By the way. I live in the Los Angeles,
Area,, Pacific Palisades.

Thanks,

Larry
Group: S-Trains Message: 19719 From: srgriggs Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: OT:Re: Ah-HAH!!!
--- In S-Trains@y..., "jahoozdumm" <eighthmile@m...> wrote:

>
> What you and I and everybody else posts here is CONTENT. It's the
> very thing that "viewers" come here to see. Nobody logs on with
Yahoo
> just to see ads, or to find a place to shovel more money.
>
> Nevertheless, I'm not demanding to be paid by Yahoo for helping to
> provide them with their one valuable product. But I will not let
them
> CHARGE me for the "privilege" of helping them profit from
advertising.
> THEY are the ones who "can't have it both ways."
>
> Yahoo has been making money from the start, Why else would they have
> acquired Egroups? They just want MORE, however they can get it.

Yahoo hasn't been "making money from the start". It lost $93 million
last year (2001), and has a negative Retained Earnings of $50 million
since its stock went public. Given the fact that anyone can earn a
risk free 3% in the bank these days, a rational investor would demand
that Yahoo make changes to the way it does business. Internet ad
rates have been plummeting for the past few years, so Yahoo is
responding the way any business person would: if your primary source
of revenue begins to dry up, you look for alternate sources. If you
don't, you go out of business, plain and simple. We may think that we
are providing content to them, but if advertisers aren't willing to
pay enough to offset operating costs, the "content" has little value.

Scott
Group: S-Trains Message: 19720 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: Re: OT:Re: Ah-HAH!!!
Scott,
I think they spend to much money, today's overnight wonders were all talk
with a plan to spend to success. Now it's back to basics, and these guys
will screw it up cause they can't handle basics !!!! Time for E-Group
again,----------


> > What you and I and everybody else posts here is CONTENT. It's the
> > very thing that "viewers" come here to see. Nobody logs on with
> Yahoo


> > Yahoo has been making money from the start, Why else would they
> have
> > acquired Egroups? They just want MORE, however they can get it.
>
> Yahoo hasn't been "making money from the start". It lost $93
> million last year (2001), ---- ENRON ACCOUNTING???
and has a negative Retained Earnings of $50 million since its stock went
public. ------"CAUGHT A FEW FISH HERE I BET !!!"
Group: S-Trains Message: 19721 From: Rick Evans Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: I'm confused...!!
Soooo,.....Does Chris Z. have a beard or not??
And is he trimming it??
Does he need oil for it??
The trimmer,..not the beard!!
Does he need to oil his trains or track??
Did I have the right answer with "WAHL" oil??
Is he using the trimmer on his trains??
Why is there air??
How many cubes in a cubicle??
How many trains did my daughter and I see over the weekend at the "loop"??
How many of these questions are rhetorical??
How many is too many??
Can one ever have "too" much money??
Film @ eleven!!

Rick.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19722 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: Re: I'm confused...!!
Rick: to paraphrase Pa from Little House on the Prairie:

All's Wahl that ends Wahl.

Tom
Group: S-Trains Message: 19723 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: To Yahoo, or Not to Yahoo
At this point, I favor staying put to see how it all shakes out. But, that's not to say we should not be looking around to see what else may be out there, should this get too intrusive.

One that I've seen so far is http://www.CommunityZero.com

I have not been able to tell if it would be better, worse, or what, just that it is out there. What other sites does anyone have in mind that could be checked out?

jfred



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19724 From: tom_rolfsmeyer Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: Museum pictures
Guys I finally got the pictures developed and posted. They are in
the album Museum pics.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19725 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: Re: AH-HAH
Is this what you are complaining about?
Is Yahoo selling our email addresses?
I am being bombarded with solicitations
for mortgages, loans and porn.

Glenn


JORDON wrote:

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Group: S-Trains Message: 19726 From: David Dewey Date: 5/27/2002
Subject: Re: I'm confused...!! and other things.
ROFL!!!!
Now that I've had a moment or two to gather my wits (yes, I know, doesn't
take long with as few as I have--beat you to that one, BBQ Man!).
Why do we park on a Driveway, but drive on a Parkway?
Sooo, how do I get started in the .com biz where you can lose $93mil (+ or-
a few K) and still walk away, not only considered "successful" but with
money in your pocket to boot! heck, we could even start a toy train
manufacturing company with these numbers!
S'
David D.
PS Hey Bob H.! You and your dang'd crystal ball--we are considering a
replacement automobile deal. Film by next Chat. (But it's my truck, not
Linda's car being replaced!--with her blessing!)
Group: S-Trains Message: 19727 From: jahoozdumm Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: OT:Re: Ah-HAH!!!
"srgriggs" <sgriggs@u...>wrote:

>Yahoo hasn't been "making money from the start". It lost $93 million
>last year (2001), and has a negative Retained Earnings of $50
>million since its stock went public.

Was that loss incurred through Yahoo!Groups? Or has profit from Yahoo!
Groups offset even worse losses for Yahoo as a whole? Besides, it was
only recently that Yahoo began running ads in the groups. Would their
contribution figure into 2001's losses at all?


>Internet ad rates have been plummeting for the past few years,

Certainly, but Yahoo is still quite eager to resort to advertising.
It must be yielding SOME benefit.


>so Yahoo is responding the way any business person would: if your
>primary source of revenue begins to dry up, you look for alternate
>sources.

If that "source" is shaking down the people who provide content,
Yahoo is only drying up the source they're shaking down.


>We may think that we are providing content to them

We KNOW we are. This thread isn't posting itself. ;^)


>but if advertisers aren't willing to pay enough to offset operating
>costs, the "content" has little value.

The content is the only thing here that has ANY value. Yahoo could
have all the servers in cyberspace locked up, and all they'd have
is "space." People don't pay ISPs so they can surf the net to see
space. (Well, I don't.) I can walk out my front door, look up, and
see space, even during a power failure (an important feature in
California.)

I wonder if on-line advertisers have forgotten the real purpose of
advertising, and what ads were for in the pre-"active link" era. They
seem to think if people don't automatically click on an ad, that the
ad has had no effect. They don't seem to appreciate the fact that
most folks are still reluctant to spray their credit card #s over
cyberspace (who can blame folks?), which prevents many "hits", and
that the real function of an ad is to keep the product in the public
consciousness. It's in their interest to remember that, as people
continue to migrate from TV to the 'Net.

Besides, if the content here has little value, maybe we should all
just stop posting. Maybe we would all perform a better service to
each other by abandoning Yahoo!Groups so that the whole thing dies
quickly before Yahoo has a chance to soak anybody.

Don't panic, it was just a thought. But if Yahoo continues to turn
their division of the Information Superhighway into the Yahoo Toll
Road, they will find themselves with many fewer "sources" to soak, if
any.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19728 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: My poor ole finger
My poor ole finger has a big callus on the end of it.
It is getting awful big from hitting the delete key in getting rid of
the off topic postings.
Has anyone noticed the ratio of train items vs off topic items.
Has anyone else noticed sometimes someone will post a long winded
off topic item with only one sentence referring to trains. Or am I getting
delirious.
Opps ! I just wore off the word "del." from its button.
Delete, delete, delete. Might be a good name for a song.

"Oh lets delete along, delete along, Lets delete the postings
that don't belong.
Oh go away, go away, Lets hope they, will stay away.
Oh there are postings here that don't belong,
Oh delete them away as you "S"ing this "S"ong."

Again, --- all together now. :o)

Roger


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19729 From: Michael Greene Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Re: OT:Re: Ah-HAH!!!
At 11:51 PM 5/26/2002 +0000, jahoozdumm wrote:
<snip>

>already said, that's fine with me.)
>
>What you and I and everybody else posts here is CONTENT. It's the
>very thing that "viewers" come here to see. Nobody logs on with Yahoo
>just to see ads, or to find a place to shovel more money.

<snip>

As a friend of mine would say, this is clearly a discussion to be held over
a few beers. I only belong to about 15 Yahoo Groups, and only in three
areas - railroads, model railroads, and digital photography, so my
experience is probably much more limited than others. Many good friends
belong to these groups, and I've been fortunate enough to make other
friends via this mechanism.

But no matter how I slice it, analyze it, dissect it, etc. my imagination
won't stretch far enough for me to think of this as "content" -- comparable
to books, videos, movies, etc. Perhaps I have a higher expectation of
content - I expect it to be packaged, focused, crisp, organized, easy to
search/retrieve (as appropriate) and directed. And as much as I enjoy the
the banter, the tips & advice I receive on this lists, and also being able
to contribute a few bits occasionally IMHO there just isn't enough to any
of the lists I belong to for me to think of them as "content". Take this
conversation/thread as an example -- is it content? Would you pay to
receive it? Now if someone distilled down the archives of this list into
the 10% really useful information, organized it, packaged it, made it easy
to search & retrieve, maybe even updated it, etc. than I would consider it
content that might be worth paying for. But no one has done this as far as
I know.

Until something like this distillation surfaces, I'll continue to consider
that Yahoo is providing me a set of services to facilitate having enjoyable
discussions with many friends and acquaintances at once. And in that vain,
I fully recognize and accept that they need to not only be compensated for
their services, but to also make a profit. There are clearly many models on
how this might be done, including:
- Pay per use
- subscription charges
- advertising
All have pros & cons, and everyone has individual preferences. Yahoo's job
is to figure out the right blend. If they offer the right blend to suit my
tastes, then I continue to use their service -- otherwise I'll just move
along. Right now my view is that it costs me 10-15 spam messages per day
and some occasional frustration with their lack of personalized tech
support & service outages. In exchange I get to use their services without
additional payment. Not a bad deal IMHO. But this may not suit others.

I'm a long time user of Eudora -- refusing to use Outlook except in
business where required. The folks who produced Eudora have a very nice
scheme -- the lite verison is free. The fuller version is available in two
flavors:
- free with advertising in the interface
- a one time payment
But it's my choice in terms of which approach. I think the key is for Yahoo
to do the same. Provide several approaches, that can be selected user by user.

Michael


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Greene Dunstable, MA, USA
Member: NMRA(Life), NASG, Bristol S Gaugers, NTRAK, TCA, The 470 Railroad
Club

Bristol S Gaugers http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com
National Assoc. of S Gaugers http://www.nasg.org
Maine Railroads (including DCC Corner) http://www.mainerailroads.org

need a good web hosting service? see http://www.fivebuckhost.com/?r=mgreenej
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Group: S-Trains Message: 19730 From: David Dewey Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Virus irony!
Boy this virus thing is really getting crazy! I just received it as a
posting about removing it! Be careful out there friends, and warn someone if
you are about to send them a legitimate attachment!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19731 From: David Dewey Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Re: My poor ole finger
Roger,
My finger is getting sore too, but from deleting all the spam and
virus-loaded stuff coming in--more of that than real messages--and almost
every virus comes with a header of "list moderators S-trains" which means
Yahoo is involved somehow!
As to off-topic stuff, like this one, I enjoy hearing about Rick's loop
adventure, how much Lutafisk Vance has eaten, etc. etc. -- because, after
years of posting here, I have come to see them as more than just S
information sources; they are friends, and I am interested in what else is
happening in their lives. After all, it;s probably those life pressures that
cause all of us to turn to this hobby for escape! The list stays more "on
topic" than the chats do!! ;-)
But enough, of this, I've got to get back to my Dispatch article!
S
David D
PS How's the layout construction going? Tourist season is here!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19732 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: California here I came!
Greetings!
I had a wonderful time in California. On Tuesday night I visited Ed
Loizeaux's layout. He has a wonderful scale layout providing many 'S'miles
of dual-track mainline. The best absurdity was seeing two RDCs pull a LONG
freight train. (The prototypes are limited to one trailer, each. Ed had a
good 20 car train with many brass cars on a 2% grades.)
40 and 41, my highrail steeplecabs, went to California with me and
they road the rails. (Of course I was restricted as the highrail flanges
didn't like his scale frogs.)

On Thursday night Lee Johnson again provided transportation only this time
to Dave Butterfield's layout. Dave runs with highrail flanges. Again 40
and 41 hit the rails and pulled a train. On both layouts, 40 and 41 got to
roll past an SP cab-forward. Only Ed's is from SouthWind Models with a 38
inch minimum radius (when it runs). The real 4294 is stuffed and mounted in
the California Railroad Museum. Like the real one, the boiler of Ed's 4294
is affixed to the rear engine.
Mike built his and showed off a number of his other projects. Both
engines of the cab-forward are attached to an internal frame (so the two
engines rotate much like the trucks on an AF PA). His goes around much
tighter turns.
Both cab-forwards were a delight to see.

I really enjoyed my stay and hope to visit again.

The photos Ed took of 40 and 41 on his layout beat me back home by about two
hours! While my wife and two daughters were picking me up at the airport,
the postman delivered the photos.
My photos of 40 and 41 on both layouts are still in my camera.

40 and 41 are back on home rails and the BNSF, highrail, DC SD-60M I
purchased from NorCal trains in Hayward is waiting for the right time to
come back out of her box. It arrived later than expected so I almost didn't
get it. (Thank goodness no one offered to sell me a cab-forward. Could you
imagine trying to get THAT past airport security?)

Back in Wisconsin, thousands of miles from where the cab-forwards ran,
Thorin



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wisconsin Electric - Wisconsin Gas is now We Energies.
Please use our new email extension "we-energies.com"
when addressing email to this sender,
e.g., john.doe@....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19733 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: spam and popups
The net is still a new medium, and various businesses and individuals are
carving out theiir turf in it, or trying to. We groups users form a
constituency that must do the same.

I don't mind pop ups and banners when I go to a site. That is the site
owner's choice. No problem.

Junk emails are an entirely different thing. Email is a personal form of
communication, entitled to a reasonable expectation of privacy.
Unstoppable unsolicited junk emails from a provider of other services,
invade that privacy. I won't stand for it.

Unfortunately, our country and culture are contaminated with marketing
majors run amok. When they go too far, we the people have to slap them in
the mouth with a stack of dollar bills. Only thing they understand.

Question is, how to do it in this case? Petition, form a pressure group,
boycott, try to get a law passed, or just leave Yahoo.

I haven't seen any sign of most of these alternatives, so I'm about ready
to move on to another host if possible. Didn't Ronald Reagan call this,
"voting with your feet?"

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19734 From: Jerry Riechert Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1467
> Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 15:56:02 -0700 (PDT)
> From: JFrederick Roberts <jfred436@...>
> Subject: To Yahoo, or Not to Yahoo
>
>
> At this point, I favor staying put to see how it all shakes out. But, that's not to say we should not be looking around to see what else may be out there, should this get too intrusive.
> One that I've seen so far is http://www.CommunityZero.com
> I have not been able to tell if it would be better, worse, or what, just that it is out there. What other sites does anyone have in mind that could be checked out?
> jfred

I'm on a couple of lists at http://www.smartgroups.com

--
Jerry Riechert
Group: S-Trains Message: 19735 From: yazfacts Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: People for layouts........
Dear Tinplaters,
If you are looking for people for your layout that
look great , come pre-painted , and are pretty cheap , look no further
!! On page 115 of the K-Line 2002 First Edition Catalog is the place
to go to.I bought the #42306 O-Scale Factory Set , on Satrurday from
my local hobby store . They look great ! The fork-lift is the same
size as "Louie The Loader"'s cart. And the people are the same size
has "Louie" himself.The set included 6 people and 7 accessories.All
that for $9.95 !! What a deal !! This seems to me to be the best deal
out there right now. Just thought I'd let you know......Bob S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19736 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Re: My poor ole finger a gittin bigger.
Well to put another way. What is Spam?
Spam is sending out a message to people that don't want it.
This doesn't just refer just to sales schemes.
Sending spam in bulk mailing is supposed to be a big NO NO.
If someone sends me info. about his golf adventure. And since I don't
have any interest in golf. Aren't I receiving Spam?
Last I new there was 600+ people on this list. Yes, No ??
Anyway, if I was to send out a story about my pets to this list, then
that would be doing a mass mailing of Spam.
I could justify the doggy story by saying his name is Gandy Dancer.
There are other places to talk about non-train topics.
And I am the first one to admit. This note is Spam. It has nothing to
with trains. Shame on me. My apologizes to those that don't want
this kind of message.
Well I guess I will get off of my soap box now. Anybody else like
to use the soap box? Have at it.
The little bars of soap were molded into images of a locomotive.
There, I don't feel quite so bad now. I turned this message into a
train topic. Then again, I need to get in touch with reality perhaps?

;o)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19737 From: notcoldenough Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Fix for Lionels Gabe
A couple months ago, I reported to this group how I fixed my "sticky"
Lionel Gabe the lamplighter (basically oil the pawls & make sure they
swing freely).

Well the other day the darn thing was sticking again. Gabe just did
not want to climb.

I finally came up with a fix that I think will work. I glued some
small lead weights to each of the pawls. The pawls now engage
reliably and Gabe is back to work. For the lead, I snipped off a
piece from a pellet gun bullet and shapped it with a pliers.

See my earlier post of the photo of Gabe in the files section
under :"Gabe Lionel". This doesn't show the lead weights, but it
will give you an idea of how the unit operates.

Oh, I almost forgot to mention that in my earlier post, I suggested
using WD 40 to lubricate the unit. Someone wrote back saying "you'll
be sorry - it will gum up later". They were right!!

John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 19738 From: zane323 Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Erie Fix
Gents
I currently have an flyonel Erie A unit which appears to want to run
only in reverse and it runs fine in reverse. I took the body off and
found two motors with an electronics board in the middle. Nothing
appeared to be fried nor any loose connections. I did not have time
to attack it with a VOM but I sent a note to Doug Peck asking for
advice/parts and he said that I should take it to a Lionel service
center and have them fix it.

I have recently replaced a motor in a 0-6-0 steamer and added a
rectifier and it ran fine. I guess it sort of got me interested in
what I could due with a diesel. I understand Doug's point on the
desiel repair but hopefully over the next ten to twenty years of
this hobby, I would like to learn to fix engines be they steam or
desiel. Anyway, any thoughts such as do the motors on these go or
the board and if so any suggestions on what to look for and what can
be replaced. If not, I guess I'll send it off to a Lionel Service
center.

Regads,
Joe Haughney
Group: S-Trains Message: 19739 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Enough Yahoo!
S-Gaugers,
I hope this thread on praising and panning Yahoo will soon ends.
The subject, gentlemen, is trains, trains, trains.
I'm starting to get my Gilbert Flyers ready for Christmas this
year. Does anyone know a good source of Gilbert compatible smoke
fluid? I have some steamers that need smoke. I also have a PRR K5 312
with SIT. I need to leave the tender shell off and manually spin the
armature when applying voltage. Does anyone know how I can correct this
problem?
The Pennsy looks sick running around without the tender shell.
W. Thomas Boussum

"If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch you must begin by
creating the universe." Carl Sagan in "Cosmos."
Group: S-Trains Message: 19740 From: Peter Ervin Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Grand Canyon Railway
I'll be in Phoenix, Arizona next month and I'm thinking about riding the
Grand Canyon Railway. What can you tell me about it? Are there any other
rail attractions in the area? Is the trip worth the fare?

Peter Ervin
Group: S-Trains Message: 19741 From: Tom Rolfsmeyer Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Re: Museum pictures
Sorry Paul,

it in the S-Trains Yahoo groups photo section in the GPD TTOM folder.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19742 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Re: Erie Fix
In a message dated 5/28/02 5:02:59 PM, J.Haughney@... writes:

<< I currently have an flyonel Erie A unit which appears to want to run
only in reverse and it runs fine in reverse. >>

Joe;

This is a bit of a long shot, but slide the reverse unit lock out switch on
the bottom of the chassis back and forth a few times, then give the engine
another try. This may "clean" the contacts. Also, check to see if the engine
is not inadvertantly locked in reverse. Beyond this, the engine will require
a board change. A service center will most likley install a different -- an
updated version.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 19743 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Enough Yahoo-SIT K-5
Tom -- I will answer your train questions, but have to make one more point
first.

The free and easy interchange of information that we enjoy on this list is
being threatened by junk email. If it continues to increase at the present
rate of increase, by Xmas we will not be able to communicate any more!
Ignoring the problem will not make it go away.

I admit that I have been guilty of thinking aloud on this issue . My only
defense is that this list is the only access I have to people who know more
about the internet than I do. I have concluded that Scott Holm is right
once again -- the answer lies in the area of legislation. I will now cease
and desist posting about it and start writing my senators and congressman,
though they are a singularly uninspiring lot. They know that internet
users tend to vote, so maybe there is a chance. Here in New York State we
have a telemarketing registry. If you register, it is illegal for anyone
to make unsolicited commercial phone calls to you. It has made a
tremendous difference. I will urge my lawmakers to get busy and pass
something like this regarding junk emails.

Your tender smoke unit problem probably lies in one of two areas. Assuming
you have cleaned the motor, brushes, brush mount, etc, and checked and
lubricated the armature bearings and helical gear, either there is a fault
in the armature, or there is too much friction in the bellows assembly (or
cylinder assembly if present).

Armature: clean the commutator plates and clean out the commutator slots
very carefully. Look for a loose solder joint to one of the plates. The
armature may be heat damaged. If it doesn't turn, it overheats and the
winding insulation may be damaged. The damage may be visible. If you have
a meter with a good 1X ohms scale, you can test it. The resistance between
all 3 possible pairs of commutator plates should be the same. If it is
not, it is a good indicator that the armature has been burnt. One or two
partly toasted coils on the armature will produce exactly the behavior you
describe. Another test is to temporarily try another armature from a
working smoke unit in there. If the armature is faulty, either get a
replacement, have it rewound by Bob Hannon, or rewind it yourself according
to the specs in Bob's book.

Friction: The bellows fabric may be too stiff. It is easy to replace.
The bottom of the bellows may be dragging on the floor of the smoke unit
casting, which tends to warp. Bending the arm up slightly may relieve
this. There may be some other damage in the arm, such as an elongated
hole, or in the gear.

If there is a cylinder instead of a bellows, try shooting a quick burst of
contact cleaner into it. The metal in these cylinders tend to decay,
making them warp. They are very fragile.

Badly worn armature bearings (the hole will be egg shaped instead of round)
could also cause your problem. If so, replace them.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19744 From: William Porter Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: No Virus Problems
Hi Guys,

I am having no problems - repeat no problems with viruses. My computer has Norton Antivirus (2002 with Live Update) and it never mentions that it has seen a virus - via Yahoo nor from anyone else. What's different? Could it be the ISP? Mine is a little more expensive than some, but, they seem to screen out some of the pesky stuff. Maybe smaller and regional providers are not providing any screening at their lower rates.

If you are having difficulty, you might look at all of the elements in the supply chain.

And now, back to my trains.

Later,
Bill Porter

wpporter@...

561 791 1781

15212 79th Court N
Loxahatchee, FL 33470


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19745 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Re: No Virus Problems
Bill I too have NAV....Check your system works....had to delete 19 the other
day...it quarantines them....Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Porter" <wpporter@...>
To: "S-Trains List" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 9:10 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] No Virus Problems


> Hi Guys,
>
> I am having no problems - repeat no problems with viruses. My computer has
Norton Antivirus (2002 with Live Update) and it never mentions that it has
seen a virus - via Yahoo nor from anyone else. What's different? Could it be
the ISP? Mine is a little more expensive than some, but, they seem to screen
out some of the pesky stuff. Maybe smaller and regional providers are not
providing any screening at their lower rates.
>
> If you are having difficulty, you might look at all of the elements in the
supply chain.
>
> And now, back to my trains.
>
> Later,
> Bill Porter
>
> wpporter@...
>
> 561 791 1781
>
> 15212 79th Court N
> Loxahatchee, FL 33470
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19746 From: TED R LARSON Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Fw: road signs
Here is a site for modern traffic signs. Print 'em out on your favorite
printer!

http://www.grouptravels.com/usa_can/driving/signs.htm

Ted Larson
http://pictureoftheday.kodak.com/cgi-bin/asCgi.pl?app=potd

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19747 From: ironhors@swbell.net Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Re: Enough Yahoo-SIT K-5
jarcho@... wrote:

> Tom -- I will answer your train questions, but have to make one more point
> first.
>
> The free and easy interchange of information that we enjoy on this list is
> being threatened by junk email. If it continues to increase at the present
> rate of increase, by Xmas we will not be able to communicate any more!
> Ignoring the problem will not make it go away.
>
> I admit that I have been guilty of thinking aloud on this issue . My only
> defense is that this list is the only access I have to people who know more
> about the internet than I do. I have concluded that Scott Holm is right
> once again -- the answer lies in the area of legislation. I will now cease
> and desist posting about it and start writing my senators and congressman,
> though they are a singularly uninspiring lot. They know that internet
> users tend to vote, so maybe there is a chance. Here in New York State we
> have a telemarketing registry. If you register, it is illegal for anyone
> to make unsolicited commercial phone calls to you. It has made a
> tremendous difference. I will urge my lawmakers to get busy and pass
> something like this regarding junk emails.
>
> Your tender smoke unit problem probably lies in one of two areas. Assuming
> you have cleaned the motor, brushes, brush mount, etc, and checked and
> lubricated the armature bearings and helical gear, either there is a fault
> in the armature, or there is too much friction in the bellows assembly (or
> cylinder assembly if present).
>
> Armature: clean the commutator plates and clean out the commutator slots
> very carefully. Look for a loose solder joint to one of the plates. The
> armature may be heat damaged. If it doesn't turn, it overheats and the
> winding insulation may be damaged. The damage may be visible. If you have
> a meter with a good 1X ohms scale, you can test it. The resistance between
> all 3 possible pairs of commutator plates should be the same. If it is
> not, it is a good indicator that the armature has been burnt. One or two
> partly toasted coils on the armature will produce exactly the behavior you
> describe. Another test is to temporarily try another armature from a
> working smoke unit in there. If the armature is faulty, either get a
> replacement, have it rewound by Bob Hannon, or rewind it yourself according
> to the specs in Bob's book.
>
> Friction: The bellows fabric may be too stiff. It is easy to replace.
> The bottom of the bellows may be dragging on the floor of the smoke unit
> casting, which tends to warp. Bending the arm up slightly may relieve
> this. There may be some other damage in the arm, such as an elongated
> hole, or in the gear.
>
> If there is a cylinder instead of a bellows, try shooting a quick burst of
> contact cleaner into it. The metal in these cylinders tend to decay,
> making them warp. They are very fragile.
>
> Badly worn armature bearings (the hole will be egg shaped instead of round)
> could also cause your problem. If so, replace them.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Has anyone checked into what it would take to have an independent system, say
sponsored by NASG, I could stomach paying some for it that way, maybe.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19748 From: bassflyer Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Post content & reading posts & the Loop...
Roger wrote...
**((If someone sends me info. about his golf adventure. And since I
don't have any interest in golf. Aren't I receiving Spam?))**

Good point Roger,...however, there are many TRAIN related topics
on this list that don't interest me,...so I guess I am
being "spammed" also. After reading, or skipping over such posts as
what is the best gauge wire for re-winding an armature, (somethin' I
just ain't gonna do!),...I would rather hear about someone's golf
adventure! And I don't golf!
My point is,..and I have said this many times,...I do not receive
emails, I go to the site to read posts. I delete enough mail from
friends, spam, etc., I don't need to delete another 200-400 emails a
month from S-Trains! And I don't want to fill up my computer by
saving them all.
Going to the site, and by hitting "Expand messages",..I can just
scroll down through the posts,...picking what I want to read. Very
simple,...no deleting, and no pop up ads! An icon on my desktop takes
me right to the site. And chat is now at the same site.

And now some train talk,....after my trip to the Tehachapi Loop..
I would like to attempt a small version of the Loop in "S". Not sure
I even have room to attempt this,...I will keep ya all posted. A
simple trestle (SP?) tressel?,... set would work,...but would like to
landscape it to match as close as possible. I'll have to lay out some
track and play with it to see if I can manage it in the space allowed.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19749 From: lou342ac Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Old Thread
About 18 months ago there was a short thread on this message about
Warren Frost. Warren has one of the feature layouts on TM's Vol 1
American Flyer Trains. Well today I got my June issue of the 'TTOS
Order Board'. On page 3 there is an add for 'Frosty's Train Service'
by the one and same Warren Frost of Vacaville, Ca.
Lou
Group: S-Trains Message: 19750 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: S-Video Quiz
In a message dated 05/28/2002 9:57:47 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
notify@yahoogroups.com writes:


> Here's a little train quiz for you all. The first person that posts the
> correct answer back onto S-trains (not S-scale) will win a free copy of
> volume V of the "S-Gauge Model Railroading" series.
>
> Q. In what month and year did Lionel buy out "American Flyer"? No fair
> phoning Lionel for the answer. They probably don't know anyway.
>
> Volume V will begin shipping on June 15. This volume will be $14 due to
> increase in cost of tapes and mailers. Also postage is going up June 30.
>
> Have fun on the Quiz....Steve & Sam....."S" n "S"
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19751 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: QUIZ
In a message dated 05/28/2002 10:24:31 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
rinphoto@... writes:


> August, 1968.
>
>
Nope...........that's not correct......Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19752 From: frilen2 Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Video Quiz
Hi Steve
I believe the answer is February 1967, when Lionel acquire the
American Flyer Name...
Karl
Group: S-Trains Message: 19753 From: bassflyer Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Re: Video Quiz
Lionel/Fundimensions to be exact,...I agree with 1967,...but not sure
of the month! OK,...July!!

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19754 From: frilen2 Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Video Quiz
Hi Steve
A little further information on the selling off of American Flyer,
the auction was held June 13-16, 1967, but I believe by then Lionel
and Gabriel (they bought the Erector name) had already carved up
Gilbert pretty well.
Karl
Group: S-Trains Message: 19755 From: Gary Chidester Date: 5/28/2002
Subject: Video Quiz
Last full year of operation was 1966, out of business in February of 1967.
My answer is February of 1967.

gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 19756 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Re-stringing my 944
Hi Guys, any suggestions on what thread and / or string to use to re-string
the 944 crane? I've used black button thread but it doesn't have the
correct thickness. Thanks,
Ken
Group: S-Trains Message: 19757 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] California here I came!
Dear Ken:
The FIRST name is Thorin.

-- CALIFORNIA --------------------
NorCal trains is located at 2791 Depot Road, unit # 27 Hayward, Ca. 94545.
The store sits behind a business called: Linda's Flowers, which is on the
corner of Depot Road and Industrial. The owner's name is Don.
Don's shop consists of a storage 'bin'. Think of a Public Storage
place with the big roll-up doors. Don has a 10 * 20 'bin'. Roll up the
door and a store front appears (with normal door). It is a nice little shop
which is quite crowded with stock. He is open some weekends and evenings
and other times by appointment. I was an appointment.
Don will get you what you want and his prices are list. The e-mail
is NorCalTT@....

-- WISCONSIN --------------------
I live in Wauwatosa, WI in a house that was built in 1923. This is the
first suburb west of Milwaukee and it takes me 10 minutes to drive downtown
Milwaukee where I work. (So I am not out in the sticks.)
I grew up in Mason City, Iowa with the C&NW and MILW. Alas, MILW =>
M&I. C&NW => UP. My favorite railroad is the Iowa Traction (previously
Iowa Terminal, nee. Mason City and Clear Lake). This ten mile line is still
using Baldwin Westinghouse steeple cabs today. (The youngest motor on the
line is a CNS&M box motor from 1933). Everything is painted Traction
Orange. 600 volt overhead with trolley poles.
I do very little modeling. (1 hour / week is a big week!) Mostly I
chase my two daughters. When I do model it is modern railroading with a
strong emphasis on traction today. (Think steeplecabs with OSHA safety
appliances pulling jumbo hoppers and jumbo tank cars -- just like the Real
Iowa Traction.) The 'layout' is just tables and I just run trains in
circles -- no timetables, no fast clocks, not schedules: just fun and no
pressure. I use DC with highrail wheels and couplers on AF track. I might
go scale if I had the time. I do have working overhead over part of the
layout and I use pantographs, not poles.
The electrics are painted Traction Orange and decaled for Iowa
Traction. Most of the rest is drifting towards Milwaukee (also Orange) and
UP. (In my fantasy Soo bought the Milwaukee and then dropped the Soo name.
The Milwaukee is Orange.) However the SD-60M I just purchased is in BNSF
because it is Orange. (Getting a theme on the color? My wife is a red-head
-- a variation on orange.)

C&NW was always an interesting outfit. I remember seeing two RSD-5s
burbling away in Morgan, Minnesota in -30 degree weather. (My father got
out of the car to photograph them. As I didn't have a camera, I stayed
warm.)

I saw a huge ore boat at the Fall S-Fest last fall. Photos of it were
posted but I don't remember where. It was to receive a live steam engine.
Remember to purchase a couple (or more) of the Train Masters for
your C&NW operations. I didn't see it but I saw DM&IR. It was impressive.
And Frank Tittman (sp) did an article on converting the Walther's HO ore
dock to S Scale.

Good luck on your modeling!
Thorin

-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Conklin [mailto:conklink@...]
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 7:00 AM
To: Marty.Thorin
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] California here I came!


Marty, where do you live in Wisconsin, I didn't know that there was a hobby
shop in Hayward, I live about 50 miles from there. Modelling CNW (Omaha)
from Twin Ports to Shell Lake, and DMIR, presently building a 9' Ore boat,
live steam for the layout, scale.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty.Thorin" <thorin.marty@...>
To: "S-Scale (E-mail)" <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com>; "'S-Trains (E-mail)"
<S-Trains@...>
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 6:43 AM
Subject: [S-Scale] California here I came!


> Greetings!
> I had a wonderful time in California. On Tuesday night I visited Ed
> Loizeaux's layout. He has a wonderful scale layout providing many
'S'miles
> of dual-track mainline. The best absurdity was seeing two RDCs pull a
LONG
> freight train. (The prototypes are limited to one trailer, each. Ed had
a
> good 20 car train with many brass cars on a 2% grades.)
> 40 and 41, my highrail steeplecabs, went to California with me and
> they road the rails. (Of course I was restricted as the highrail flanges
> didn't like his scale frogs.)
>
> On Thursday night Lee Johnson again provided transportation only this time
> to Dave Butterfield's layout. Dave runs with highrail flanges. Again 40
> and 41 hit the rails and pulled a train. On both layouts, 40 and 41 got
to
> roll past an SP cab-forward. Only Ed's is from SouthWind Models with a 38
> inch minimum radius (when it runs). The real 4294 is stuffed and mounted
in
> the California Railroad Museum. Like the real one, the boiler of Ed's
4294
> is affixed to the rear engine.
> Mike built his and showed off a number of his other projects. Both
> engines of the cab-forward are attached to an internal frame (so the two
> engines rotate much like the trucks on an AF PA). His goes around much
> tighter turns.
> Both cab-forwards were a delight to see.
>
> I really enjoyed my stay and hope to visit again.
>
> The photos Ed took of 40 and 41 on his layout beat me back home by about
two
> hours! While my wife and two daughters were picking me up at the airport,
> the postman delivered the photos.
> My photos of 40 and 41 on both layouts are still in my camera.
>
> 40 and 41 are back on home rails and the BNSF, highrail, DC SD-60M I
> purchased from NorCal trains in Hayward is waiting for the right time to
> come back out of her box. It arrived later than expected so I almost
didn't
> get it. (Thank goodness no one offered to sell me a cab-forward. Could
you
> imagine trying to get THAT past airport security?)
>
> Back in Wisconsin, thousands of miles from where the cab-forwards ran,
> Thorin


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wisconsin Electric - Wisconsin Gas is now We Energies.
Please use our new email extension "we-energies.com"
when addressing email to this sender,
e.g., john.doe@....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19758 From: af21115 Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Re: QUIZ
June 1967 is when Lionel actually made the purchase. It wasn't until
early 1969 they either decided to use the equipment and name, or had
already made that decision and had started production, or had made
the licensing agreement with MPC.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19759 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: 944 string
Try black dacron braided trolling line, 36 lb. test.

And they thought posts about fishing were off topic!

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19760 From: Ted Larson Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Bar Mills Kit
I have not seen this in any of the S-Scale BAR MILLS comments;
here is a link to info on the kit.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/171-60105


=====
Ted Larson

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19763 From: dmsapadin Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Slipping on New Gargraves Track
Hi:

Can anyone suggest a good way to eliminate the slipping on new
Gargraves track? I thought of lightly sanding it but I am not sure
if that is a good idea or not.

Thanks,

David Sapadin
Group: S-Trains Message: 19764 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: More Visitors, Publishing, & WGH campaign....
I was also disappointed to see in the July Classic Toy Trains on page 23
under Train Layouts on Parade that although Wayne Beachy's (and other
s-gaugers') efforts that although it was mentioned that "a main
attraction of a 30 by 62 foot (sic) U shaped layout comprised of S gauge
modules from five divisions of the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers and the
Baltimore area American Flyer Club", only a picture of a Marx layout (by
Wayne) was shown. The picture caption read: "Although an S gauge
modular layout was the big draw at an all-benefit train show in
Richmond, VA, youngsters found this Marx layout displayed by J. Wayne
Beachy and his fellow hobbyists equally appealing." That is somewhat
painful to get the press but no pictures of the "big draw". S-scale and
S-hi rail both suffer a lack of recognition!
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)

royhoffman wrote:

>- In S-Scale@y..., Ed & Judi Loizeaux <loizeaux@P...> wrote:
>
>>Unfortunately, S scale was not even mentioned
>>which was really too bad. Merely looking at the photo, there is no
>>way
>>to tell what scale is being shown.
>>
>-
>
>The same thing happened to an article in RMC by Dick Karnes.
>I hope that it's just an oversight and not a trend.
>
>Roy
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19765 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Re: Bar Mills Kit
It will be interesting to see some examples of the buildings that are
built by S-gaugers with this kit!!
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)

Ted Larson wrote:

>I have not seen this in any of the S-Scale BAR MILLS comments;
>here is a link to info on the kit.
>http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/171-60105
>
>
>=====
>Ted Larson
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19766 From: yazfacts Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Red 649.....?
Dear Group,
Zipping through E-Bay today I noticed that someone was
selling two #649 all orginal Circus Passenger Cars . They listed one
as the painted yelow version , and one as the red version. My question
is , did Gilbert ever make a red Circus Passenger Car ?? I thought
they only made two versions of the yellow car.One painted and one
un-painted. Please post any and all answers. Thanks in advanceas
always.....Bob S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19767 From: Chuck Smith Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Re: Slipping on New Gargraves Track
I have the same problem with some old Gargraves, primarily on tight
turns. I think it's probably the lack of a flat top on the rail. Just
an observation, I am a pretty pragmatic guy. I observe the same train,
on a loop containing curved sections of both Gargraves and AF, of the
same radius, slipping on Gargraves and not the AF. Be opportunistic,
doublehead!

dmsapadin wrote:
>
> Hi:
>
> Can anyone suggest a good way to eliminate the slipping on new
> Gargraves track? I thought of lightly sanding it but I am not sure
> if that is a good idea or not.
>
> Thanks,
>
> David Sapadin
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 19768 From: John Foley Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: S Signals
Hi Folks
You may know of this gentlemen, his name is Frank Johnson
and he manufacturers some great brass S scale signals. He does
a 2 light and 3 light signal and a bulls eye. They are swell done
and only $15.00 ea. The signal comes together you need two
install the lights which are included and paint them.
Contact Frank for more info at 860 646 0334
or write him at

78 Finley Street
Manchester, Ct. 06040

John
Group: S-Trains Message: 19769 From: bassflyer Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Red 649?? Yeppers!!
Well,...I didn't think so,...but re-reading my Greenberg book,..
it does say, yellow-painted/unpainted yellow/red plastic!!
I have never seen a red one,..in person or on ebay! However, the
book states for the red car,.."NO REPORTED SALES".

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19770 From: Dennis A Troini Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Re: Re-stringing my 944
Ken I have used Model Shipways, Billings Boat , Bluejacket and Marine
Models rigging threads . I also found very fine/small brass and blackened
chain in some kits. My supplies are rather old from a hobby shop closing
20 years ago; a Google search for Model Sailing Ship Kits turned up
Model Dockyard and Nautical Research Guild , among others. The rigging
thread is very stable and quite strong; the chain has been excellent for
additional detail on passenger and freight cars and I have also
re-detailed a 944 using the chain for some of the rigging.
Good luck
Dennis
On Wed, 29 May 2002 07:20:01 -0400 "Stoudt,Kenneth R."
<STOUDTKR@...> writes:
Hi Guys, any suggestions on what thread and / or string to use to
re-string
the 944 crane? I've used black button thread but it doesn't have the
correct thickness Thanks,
Ken
Group: S-Trains Message: 19771 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Re: Red 649.....?
In a message dated 5/29/02 3:29:05 PM, YAZFACTS@... writes:

<< They listed one as the painted yelow version , and one as the red version.
My question is , did Gilbert ever make a red Circus Passenger Car ?? >>

Nope.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 19772 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Re: Red 649.....?
I think there were a couple of red "Circus" coaches..only A couple and
rare..there was A red flat car...When I had my circus set built back in 83 I
also had the red version of the coach made along with the 646 floodlight,
box and 944 crane cars...All in circus motif...He also did all the regular
flats, coaches, etc. The engine I used was A 354 smoker to redo...Set has
all kc and is still very sharp as everthing was restored using like new
pieces...Bob Conner
Group: S-Trains Message: 19773 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Re: Red 649.....?
In a message dated 5/29/02 8:45:14 PM, rcon7@... writes:

<< there was A red flat car. >>

There were a limited number of original red circus flats made by Gilbert, but
these are very scarce. Sorry, no red coaches....nada, zippo, zero.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 19774 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: American Flyer quiz
Here's a clue. Hope this doesn't start an argument but I took the answer
from a licensed "Lionel" trivia game. Have had one person tell me they were
wrong so far. Claims he knows for certain. No correct answer from anyone yet
per the trivia game.

Steve & Sam
Group: S-Trains Message: 19775 From: bassflyer Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Red 649..Yeppers? Nopers??
Well, it would make sense that if Gilbert never made any red
649's,...that's why we never see any and why the Greenberg book shows
NO SALES REPORTED!! This must be one of those Greenberg mistakes
everyone talks about,..but no one will give me an example! Guess I
have an example now!!
NEVER trust the book!!

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19776 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Book wrong ???
Guess I
have an example now!!
NEVER trust the book!!

Rick.

Some things got into a catalog, but were not produced. Some were made for the "Toy Fair" but didn't go into production as shown. Some were planned, but not made. There were even some only sold at the company store, but not sent to stores. So, info can get to a book that is not what they can verify, thus the no knowen examples





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19777 From: Gary Chidester Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Quiz
June 1967?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19778 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Ghost towns
http://www.ghosttowns.com/
Jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19779 From: frilen2 Date: 5/29/2002
Subject: Quiz
Hi Steve....
One more try...
Don Heimberger's book "American Flyer Features quotes a "Toy and
Novelties" article from June 15th 1967....."NEW YORK - Sale of the
American Flyer Train line of the A.C.Gilbert Co to Lionel Corp was
announced at a Lionel stock holders meeting recently"
OK so if it wasn't June '67 was 'recently' meaning May 1967?
Karl
Group: S-Trains Message: 19780 From: fjg1870 Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: Re: Red 649?? Yeppers!! (Yes but)
--- In S-Trains@y..., "bassflyer" <comic@d...> wrote:
Well,...I didn't think so,...but re-reading my Greenberg book,..
it does say, yellow-painted/unpainted yellow/red plastic!!
I have never seen a red one,..in person or on ebay! However, the
book states for the red car,.."NO REPORTED SALES".

Rick

Rick,

The Reggie Carnes collection, which many people feel had a number of
non-factory items, had three (3) different circus trains. The first
being the regular red loco w/yellow cars. The second was a complete
reverse with a yellow engine and red cars. The third was a red engine
with silver cars w/red lettering. He also had a 652 circus pullman.
Reggie always claimed that these were factory prototypes, and at the
time, everyone believed him.

He also had a number of other unusal items including an A-B-A Comet
(466,467 & 468) set with a 4 car blue stripe passenger set, including
the coach. According to Reggie it was always Gilbert's intension to
offer all the PA's as A-B-A sets.

Many people believe Reggie made these items himself, which he may
have, but also remember I'm talking about the late '60's and
early '70's when there was not any reproduction lettering available.
I'm not sure what happened to his collection, but it might prove
interesting to try and track it down.

Walt Danylak
Group: S-Trains Message: 19781 From: Wayne Zebron Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: Grand Canyon Railway
My wife and I rode the Grand Canyon Railway the summer of 2000. I cannot
tell you the exact cost as it was part of an Amtrack Vacation Package from
central Illinois. We arrived in Williams AZ. and stayed the night at a
hotel right by the railway. As I recall the two hour trip to the Grand
Canyon began at 9 or 10 AM and returned around 5 or 6PM. We rode up to the
Canyon on a Saturday and returened on Sunday staying at one of the hotels
in the Grand Canyon Park. The ride was great, we rode in a coach, but you
could upgrade to an air conditioned car or a dome car. It was July and the
coach was ok. We had a good time and would do it again. Be prepared as the
train will be "robbed" on the return trip. If you want more information
contact off line.

Have fun,
Wayne
Group: S-Trains Message: 19782 From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: Re: Red 649 and more
Sorry fellows....When I spoke of the Red coach...I had forgotten about the
Yellow Engine....I remember at York one year....White hall I think...about
83 - 85 A fellow had A pile of odd stuff..All types of items, cars, engines,
etc...I almost bought 4 c & o Gondolas ...They were black but with , Yellow,
Silver, Orange, White lettering combos..They looked really
good....Supposedly they were test items....The man had A lot of stuff and
there was an announcement over the loud speakers that someone was selling
questionable stuff...no names were given...but to exercise caution when
buying...This might have been some of Carnes stuff...I really can't see
someone putting out that amount of time to make all that fake stuff when he
could just have easily made more money legal ways.....Reminds me of A Lionel
Engine I once had..695...should have been 675...All of the standards
committee at York, Including Lou, declared it possibly an error and DID NOT
HAVE TO BE MARKED FAKE OR REPRO...I remember speaking to Lenny Dean about
it...(The owner of Lionel sent me over to talk with him after he had looked
at it)...His answer...Definitely FAKE....."Lionel never made mistakes"....HA
HA HA (There were two friends there with me at the time....been a joke with
us for years)....So just because it is not in a book....Doesn't mean it
doesn't exist....My REPAINTED RED one looks really nice.....The fellow who
did it back then , using correct yellow circus lettering, (I think Bennet
made that color lettering too) said it was as close to the original as he
could get....I am sure A F experimented with many colors, styles, etc. to
see what looked best....Who knows....???? BTW I still need Royal Blue
lettering for my 900 series Heavyweight Passenger set...Repainted Blue,
using like new ones of course..I am fairley sure the one sold was A
repaint...possiblely from where I got mine..(83 - 85)..Bob Conner
Group: S-Trains Message: 19783 From: sportlands Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: Source for Decals
I am looking for a good source for S-scale decals. Spokane, Portland
& Seattle boxcar decals for one.

Thanks, Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 19784 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: Re: Red 649.....?
In a message dated 5/29/02 8:19:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rbubeck327@... writes:

<< << They listed one as the painted yellow version, and one as the red
version.
My question is, did Gilbert ever make a red Circus Passenger Car ?? >>

Nope.

RB >>

I have been asked to fill in a bit more information about this piece. Permit
me to tackle the question in the following manner:

There was a collector of AF, now deceased, with an extremely large and
comprehensive Gilbert collection. Unfortunately, this collection contained a
fair number of bogus pieces, which were initially taken seriously but were
later revealed to be fabrications through examination after resale to another
collector or during the auction after the collector's passing. One of the
more notorious pieces was the "red 649" which was bought by a friend and
colleague collector of mine and deliberately taken out of circulation because
of its false origins. Given the high collector popularity of AF circus items,
we would have certainly listed it in our TM Guide on AF if we had been able
to verify such a variation. A number of these pieces of dubious origin made
it into the early editions of the Greenberg books, but regrettably, have
never been weeded out before the publication of subsequent editions.

So, buyer please be cautious.

Hope this helps and clarifies.

Bob Bubeck
Group: S-Trains Message: 19785 From: David Dewey Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: Re: Red 649?? Yeppers!! (Yes but)
Yes, I have heard of this problem myself. You mentioned no repro lettering
was available then, BUT!!! (conjecture on my part) ORIGINAL factory
left-over probably were! So; is it real or is it Reggie?? (Sorry Memorex, I
couldn't resist!)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19786 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: "American Flyer" quiz result
Rick, (comic@...) was the first to answer correctly per the
licensed "Lionel Trivia" game. Please, no arguments. I personally don't know
the answer to the month but they think they do. It is MARCH 1967 per their
publication. It's what I have to go on.

Rick wins a free Volume V of "S-Gauge Model Railroading." We haven't titled
it yet but it focuses on the Maryland club at shows and individual members
layouts. It also revisits the "Rocky Mt. Hi-railers" at the Boise Depot
anniversary. They have added yet another loop and a roundhouse and turntable
to their Sectional layout. One of our Can Motor locos (293) with the lower
gearing will be seen pulling lots of cars around it too. There is more info
on layout building with a look at my own that is under reconstruction.

As previously stated, due to increase in cost of tapes and mailers as well as
postage increase in June the cost of this volume will be $14 ppd.

We will begin accepting checks on June 1 with a shipping date of June 14.

Thanks to all who participated in the "trivia"...........Steve & Sam


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19787 From: Roger Hinds Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: Hannons book
Hi Guy"S"
I got my copy of Hannons book from Doug Peck.
I have got to say , "A lot of work went into putting this book
together". A lot of detailed color photographs of the Motors made
by AC Gilbert. Most of the pictures are the motors and coils and their related
parts. A lot of charts with motor specs.
Even though I was disappointed in the size of the book, the contents more than
make up for it. Even if you don't repair motors the specifications will help a lot
in identifying parts.
I do have one question in regards to the motor windings. Since the values of
the wire has changed in recent years. Do we use the same gauge wire and number
of windings as mentioned in the book? Or has that changed?

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 19788 From: Don Thompson Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: Re: Source for Decals
Dear Dave,
CDS has 5 sets of SP&S dry transfers for boxcars. They are set 134, 135 136,
152 and 74. You can get these from Jeff Wilson of Hoquat Hobbies. His evening
phone number is 732-968-6415.

sportlands wrote:

> I am looking for a good source for S-scale decals. Spokane, Portland
> & Seattle boxcar decals for one.
>
> Thanks, Dave
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 19789 From: John Foley Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: NASG Convention Clinic.
Hi Folks
I will be doing a clinic at this years NASG convention in Cleveland.
It will be called DCC Easy & Inexpensive. The clinic will be on Thursday
Aug.1 at 10 am-11am & Friday 11:30am - 12:30pm.
MRC [ Model Rectifier Corp. ] Is donating one of their new Prodigy
DCC systems to a lucky clinic attendee. We will draw the winning ticket
at the end of Fridays clinic. Each attendee will be given a ticket at the
clinic.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19790 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: Re: NASG Convention Clinic.
Hi John:
Will this be videotaped by any chance for those of us not able to get to
the NASG convention in Cleveland? Is it at all possible??
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)

John Foley wrote:

>Hi Folks
> I will be doing a clinic at this years NASG convention in Cleveland.
>It will be called DCC Easy & Inexpensive. The clinic will be on Thursday
>Aug.1 at 10 am-11am & Friday 11:30am - 12:30pm.
> MRC [ Model Rectifier Corp. ] Is donating one of their new Prodigy
>DCC systems to a lucky clinic attendee. We will draw the winning ticket
>at the end of Fridays clinic. Each attendee will be given a ticket at the
>clinic.
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19791 From: bassflyer Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: Re: Hannons book
Roger wrote....**(( I do have one question in regards to the motor
windings. Since the values of the wire has changed in recent years.
Do we use the same gauge wire and number of windings as mentioned in
the book?))**

Arrrgh!! See? There's that "what gauge wire" talk (spam), that I
spoke of!!
Sorry Roger,...I couldn't resist!! You guys can talk all the wire
gauge and re-winding ya want! I'll skip past! ;-)

And I'd like to except my Trivia Quiz award, and thank all of the
little people that I stepped on,...on the way up from the bottom!!
Which camera is on again? I'm ready for my close-up!


Rick :-)
Group: S-Trains Message: 19792 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 5/30/2002
Subject: #20425 set with 21005
Hi,
Will the person that contacted me about a month ago about buying my
#20425 set that contains a #21005 please contact me.I lost your address.
Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19793 From: kempfam@aol.com Date: 5/31/2002
Subject: Grand Canyon Ry
Peter,
The Grand Canyon Ry trip from Williams is well worth your time and money.
They use oil burning steamers and have some Alco FA's they use for special
excursions. I think the cost was about $60.00 per person, coach. The
scenery is is something someone like me who is from the East never sees and
therefore beautiful and interesting. The canyon is not describable. There
is narritive describing how the land formed and other tidbits.
Buy the Railway book if you have any interest in history.
I recall the ride is around 2 hours each way with maybe a three hour stop at
the canyon. Not enough time for the canyon. If you have not been there you
certainly will wand to drive back the next day. I think the railway has a
website.
Ron Kemp
Group: S-Trains Message: 19794 From: kempfam@aol.com Date: 5/31/2002
Subject: Grand Canyon Ry
Peter,
Check out www.thetrain.com for info.
Ron Kemp
Group: S-Trains Message: 19795 From: clarklumbe@aol.com Date: 5/31/2002
Subject: Source for Decals
Don,

Thank you for the info on the SP&S boxcar decals.

Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 19796 From: Hannon Date: 5/31/2002
Subject: Wire Gauges :(- and other things :-)
(RICK: HIT YOUR DELETE KEY NOW! :-)

Roger:

First of all, thanks for buying the book. Please
send me your serial number so I can put you
on the updates list.

To answer your question ... YES. Use the
same wire gauge and number of windings
listed in the book. That NEMA wire table
is a spec for manufacturing the wire. The
changes were minor ... they took 1/10000 off
the MAXimum allowed, and then mostly on
the smaller wire gauges (35 - 42).

Recognizing a part by its physical dimensions
is the main use to which the manual can be put.
Several exploded views generated by the
factory simply re-used the old art-work and
re-typed the part numbers. So, the exploded
views show skewed slot armatures instead of
straight slot, open pole versus closed
pole. Vince Amato's Bills of Materials (BOMs)
put an end to most of the confusion in that area.
(See P.S. at end of this message).

But physical dimensions alone don't tell the whole story.
A part may look, feel, and smell the same, but
there's a real possibility it isn't. I'm currently working
on an update to the manual dealing with an
undocumented DC Steamer pullmor armature
(it looks, feels and smells just like an AC
PulMor armature XA11077, but if you accidentally
put it into an AC motor, the performance will be so
bad that you will seriously consider taking up
Hummel collecting). Put it in a loco with a Gilbert
D.C. magnet, and you have a real (cool running)
screamer on your hands.

I've gotten inputs from Doug Peck, Ray Mohrlang,
Bob Tufts, Joe Haenn, Tom Seccia, Harwood Owings and
Tom Jarcho. As soon as Tom Jarcho sends me
his two samples, I plan on getting an update
on the website (complete with wire gauge,
turn counts, resistance measurements and
wire lengths ... Just for Rick! But Rick won't
know about this, because he probably followed
the instructions on Line 1 of this message. :-) ).
Bob Hannon
http://www.trainrefs.com

P.S.

Vince, Peter and Steve Amato still aren't convinced that
there would be widespread interest in this material.
The BOMs have the complete production parts
lists (not just those available for sale to Service
Stations). They also include useable dating info,
annual production estimates, and some materials
composition information. The tabular extracts you
see in my manual are miniscule fragments compared
to the data generated on each loco, piece of
rolling stock and accessory.

So, if you're interested in this material, I strongly urge
you to contact Peter, Steve or Vince at
http://www.HobbySurplus.com or
http://www.TrainRepairParts.com and urge
them to try to publish it. It's a massive collection,
so it would probably have to be CD-based. Use their
"Contact Us" button on their home page. (By the
way, they don't know about this unofficial campaign to
get the data published in one form or another ...
yet).
Group: S-Trains Message: 19797 From: John Foley Date: 5/31/2002
Subject: Re: NASG Convention Clinic.
Hi Rance
Paul Yorke has volunteered to tape it.
John
Hi John:
Will this be videotaped by any chance for those of us not able to get to
the NASG convention in Cleveland? Is it at all possible??
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)
John Foley wrote:
>Hi Folks
> I will be doing a clinic at this years NASG convention in Cleveland.
>It will be called DCC Easy & Inexpensive. The clinic will be on Thursday
>Aug.1 at 10 am-11am & Friday 11:30am - 12:30pm.
> MRC [ Model Rectifier Corp. ] Is donating one of their new Prodigy
>DCC systems to a lucky clinic attendee. We will draw the winning ticket
>at the end of Fridays clinic. Each attendee will be given a ticket at the
>clinic.
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19798 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/31/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, June 2, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19799 From: Rick Evans Date: 6/1/2002
Subject: Traction tires for AF?
Hi all,
Is Yahoo broke, or am I actually the first to post on June 1st??
Any whoooo,...Page 95, in the new CTT's mentions changing traction tires,...and I know
there has been talk on this list of traction tires for AF,...Neil Trump makes 'em
maybe?? Was it wheels with bands or separate bands?
Are just the bands available for AF locos? If so, any good? Comments? Thoughts? Regrets? :-)

Rick.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19800 From: Rick Evans Date: 6/1/2002
Subject: CTT,..again!
A few of us have made the comment lately about old-time locos,...and we want
some,...and nobody makes 'em! Did ya see the K-Line little switcher in the new CTT??
$139.00!! Wow!! Not bad for a little plastic loco,....PLASTIC?? This thing is DIE-CAST,..and so
is the tender!! Has a fireman and engineer! Railsounds for some extra $$'s!!

Yeah,..I know,..it's "O" gauge,..bigger market,..yadda-yadda-yadda,....but a die-cast loco for
under $150.00?? Oh yeah,...smoke and whistle!!

Also I see they are selling a 15th Anniversary CTT boxcar,..."O" of course,...nothing
offered in "S"! Maybe I would buy one,..and maybe not,...but no option!! Oh well,...
at least Neil mentioned S gauge in his "Editor's Desk" column.

Rick.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19801 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 6/1/2002
Subject: Re: CTT
Rick,

Which issue of CTT? The July issue has an AF 300 on page 50. The story starting on page 91 is a layout of "0", "S", and "HO". The photo on page 93 does show off some of the worst looking stuff Flyer made, but in any case AF is showen.

jfred



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19802 From: Robert Wight Date: 6/1/2002
Subject: Re: Traction tires for AF?
Rick; I bought a pair of these pull-mores that are being offered. They are a
band that is sort of valcanized on the rim. Anyway, they are great. I have
about 30 hours on them speeding around corners and pulling up grades, down
hills. Ive spun the tires on take off's. I have inspected them and they look
like new. Well worth the money and soooo easy to put on. I have another
engine that I just put a fly wheel can moter on. Wow does that work well. Im
going to put on the pull-mores next then stand back. Also the moter makes
this engine smoke you out of the room. what fun. UFFDA.
Bob Wight


>Hi all,
>Is Yahoo broke, or am I actually the first to post on June 1st??
>Any whoooo,...Page 95, in the new CTT's mentions changing traction
>tires,...and I know
>there has been talk on this list of traction tires for AF,...Neil Trump
>makes 'em
>maybe?? Was it wheels with bands or separate bands?
>Are just the bands available for AF locos? If so, any good? Comments?
>Thoughts? Regrets? :-)
>
>Rick.


_________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19803 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 6/1/2002
Subject: CTT
As far as CTT is concerned, I'm still thinking of Glenn Ritter's photos
being rejected because the scenery didn't measure up to CTT standards. As
I said in a previous post, CTT is a stepchild of Model Railroader and they
still don't get it: Running toy trains is running toy trains, and diorama
building is diorama building. The two things are not the same. Model
Railroader's philosophy does not necessarily apply here -- we're too busy
havin' fun!

Toy trains look good on floorboards, on carpets, on grass mats or snow
fabric, on your ping pong table, on a book shelf, even on a plexiglass
shelf running around below your ceiling. Toy trains provide the
excitement. Scenery is just the frosting on the cake, not a vital part of
the equation.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19804 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/1/2002
Subject: Re: CTT
Hi Guys Has anyone tried Model Railroad News out of Merlin Ore?
Every issue they have atleast 2 pages of "S" related. IMHO they could use
some more info to print & might be happy to p[rint it. Here is their web site
www.ModelRailRoadNews.Com GOMRN@... Is another address to send new
product info to. I think the sub. price is $20 a year. The main thing is that
every month without fail they have the 2 "S" pages. Mike S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19805 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/1/2002
Subject: Re: CTT
Tom Jarcho wrote:

>As far as CTT is concerned, I'm still thinking of Glenn Ritter's
>photos being rejected because the scenery didn't measure up to CTT
>standards.


CTT must have changed quite a bit. I remember when they would run
articles on layouts that had no scenery at all. They once ran a piece
that went on for pages and pages about a Standard gauge layout. It
was a big layout with plenty of accessories, but the only "scenery"
was whatever trees and such might be glued or lithographed to certain
buildings. The edges of the benchwork itself were well finished, but
everything was plopped on bare, unpainted particle board.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19806 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: Re: Traction tires for AF?
Hi Bob:
Would you give a little more info on the pullmores that are being
advertised which you mention? Are they AF or the ones shown in CTT
(which are I think O - but I didn't check!). Which engine did you put
them on? Additionally, who supplies the fly-wheel can motor and which
engine did you put it on? I thought I saw mention of one earlier on
this list (that is, another in addition to the one that Steve and Sam
are offering which doesn't have a flywheel). How does the motor
interact with the smoke piston (guess it drives it in the boiler) and do
you have DC or AC to the tungsten heating element (or whatever it
is)??? Tx for additional info.
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)

Robert Wight wrote:

>Rick; I bought a pair of these pull-mores that are being offered. They are a
>band that is sort of valcanized on the rim. Anyway, they are great. I have
>about 30 hours on them speeding around corners and pulling up grades, down
>hills. Ive spun the tires on take off's. I have inspected them and they look
>like new. Well worth the money and soooo easy to put on. I have another
>engine that I just put a fly wheel can moter on. Wow does that work well. Im
>going to put on the pull-mores next then stand back. Also the moter makes
>this engine smoke you out of the room. what fun. UFFDA.
>Bob Wight
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19807 From: Roger Hinds Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: CTT & other train mags.
Some writers for train mags get spoiled rotten easily.
They will visit some Model RR collector and see he has
a large collection all in mint condition. Not only that, the
collector has it displayed in Glass mahogany cabinets
that were custom made for the purpose. Of course the collector
has a model RR reeking with detail and is glassed in as well.
The collector claims he built the whole thing.
More than the likely the collector is "Mr. Rich"
Mr. Rich had a carpenter build the cabinets
Mr. Rich had the Model RR built by an expert.
Mr. Rich Bought all his train items at once from
a collectors widow.

So moving along. ---- The Magazine person is so impressed
that he is no longer interested in us guys that collected trains
one at a time and built cabinets with our very own hands, which
might not be quite as good as the Rich persons cabinets
Mr. Magazine person wants everything on the same level as
the "Mr. Rich" display. Other wise, Go away.
The magazine isn't interested in something not built at
museum levels of skill.

Comments ????

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 19808 From: joeawood@aol.com Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: CTT
Let's face it CTT is not greatly committed to S so what we need to do is put
our money where it can be used to our greatest advantage. If all the members
of this list became NASG members and we spent the money that we spend on CTT,
I currently do both. We could see the Dispatch increase in size and print
more articles like we want to see. The Paying public dominates the market
place, we have discussed this before. So lets put our money where our mouth
is and send an extra $30. per year to NASG to increase the size and content
of the Magazine "For S- Gaugers and By S-Gaugers" If you are not a NASG
member Please Join and we will make some things happen. Joe Anderson


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19809 From: bassflyer Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: Re: CTT
JFrederick Roberts wrote:

**(( Which issue of CTT? The July issue has an AF 300 on page 50. The
story starting on page 91 is a layout of "0", "S", and "HO". The
photo on page 93 does show off some of the worst looking stuff Flyer
made, but in any case AF is showen.
jfred))**

You are correct Sir!! After I sent the post,....I thought of the
few other "S" things that I didn't mention in the new CTT!!

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19810 From: Bill Lane Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: S Scale H30A
Hi All,

Here is a scan of my just finished S Scale H30A.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/S_ScaleH30A.jpg I usually have about
a 1-month attention span for any project. This must have been one month + 1
hour because, I just discovered it in my collection ready for paint after I
reworked it and details added some time ago. I was very happy that I had the
Builders photo, so I dove right in! The Return When Empty To Mapleton PA was
made up of "Mapleton" from individual decal letters. FUN FUN FUN!

I do not have the correct trucks as it appeared in the Builders photo, they
are correct for the H30. I keep showing the S Scale and PRR Internet
community my work because I want to show that the Mighty PRR is alive and
well in S Scale today. It is thriving. This is not a scratchbuilt car. It
was produced by River Raisin Models http://riverraisinmodels.com about 14
years ago. I am happy to say that the ranks of HO and O scale are 1 each
less as of last week because of my promotional efforts.

Enjoy,

Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 19811 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: Re: CTT,..again!
In a message dated 6/1/02 11:22:17 PM, comic@... writes:

<< A few of us have made the comment lately about old-time locos,...and we
want
some,...and nobody makes 'em! Did ya see the K-Line little switcher in the
new CTT??
$139.00!! Wow!! Not bad for a little plastic loco,....PLASTIC?? This thing is
DIE-CAST,..and sois the tender!! Has a fireman and engineer! Railsounds for
some extra $$'s!! Yeah,..I know,..it's "O" gauge,..bigger
market,..yadda-yadda-yadda,....but a die-cast loco for under $150.00?? Oh
yeah,...smoke and whistle!! >>

I have one with TMCC on order and coming my way. Comments from folks (on the
OGR message board) who have already received one have been very positive. If
any are interested, I could post a brief review here after mine arrives. I
know, I know -- it's 'zero' gauge. <grin> I have also been living with a new
scale-sized Lionel No. 5433 NYC J3a Hudson (the 50th Anniversary set) for
about a month which is knockdown gorgeous, but I am normally disinclined to
share such things with this board because it might be misconstrued. Oh, if
only such things were done in S? <sigh>

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 19812 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, June 2, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19813 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: Re: S Scale H30A
Bill Lane wrote:

>Here is a scan of my just finished S Scale H30A.
>http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/S_ScaleH30A.jpg
>I do not have the correct trucks as it appeared in the Builders
>photo, they are correct for the H30.


Do my eyes deceive me, or are the trucks in the builder's photo a
type of early roller-bearing truck?



Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19814 From: Roger Hinds Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: Re: CTT & other train mags.
Lawrence Jackman wrote:

> SHOULD NOT MR. RICH GET THE SAME CREDIT??????

And so he should. What irks me is when "Mr. Rich" says "I built it"
omitting everyone else. He should say, "I had it built" He could add
what he actually did. Which might Be design and research. or what ever.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 19815 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: what the heck is going on?
I've been running my 30Bs for a few years with no problems. Now one side
works perfectly but the other one keeps showing a short. I take the engine
(any and all engines) off the rails and the short is gone. Put 'em back and
short again. I'm stumped. What's up?

Jacques
Group: S-Trains Message: 19816 From: Gerry Evans Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: More worms
Yo, Troops:

Got three more e-mails this PM with the Klez worm. Two on the brass list from a "bretton" and "wendy." The one on the s-trains list appears to have come from the list moderator (obviously a sham), and purports to contain a "clean" for the Klez worm. Do not open the attachments on any of these.

This is starting to get me concerned. Is this a plot by some disconcerted subscriber?

Gerry Evans
In Flagstaff


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19817 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: Cleveland Design on E-Bay
Now here's something you don't see every day. With an educational paragraph
or two from the very knowledgable seller (with whom I have done some fair
business.)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1736645151

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19818 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: Lightning restrike!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19819 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Chat
What's suppose to happen when you click on the below address??? I went
there and signed in and get a blank page with chat and chat help on top
and zero. I have the correct stuff in the help list , but then still back
to zero ???? 9:15PM EDT--- HSJ

On 2 Jun 2002 21:02:16 -0000 S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
> We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.
>
> Sunday Chat
>
> Date: Sunday, June 2, 2002
> Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)
>
> Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
>
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19820 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: S 'n S Can Motor
Running DCC and an S 'n S can motor my little 343 project pulled 29 SHS & AM
cars up a 2% grade. Couldn't get but may 8 or 9 before.

What would the new low gear motor pull?

When will the PA motors be ready?

John Griffin



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19821 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/2/2002
Subject: Re: S 'n S Can Motor
Hi John,
I use the lower gear DC can motors from SnS For my 342 &
343's . I have yet to use them on track yet (No room) But I think that the
lower gears are better for the switchers & maybe Atlantics. Just my 2 cents.
Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19822 From: louis glumac Date: 6/3/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Chat
i dont know i try to get into chat to and it will not let me in for some
reason,,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Howell S Jobbins" <hsjobbins@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Reminder - Sunday Chat


> What's suppose to happen when you click on the below address??? I went
> there and signed in and get a blank page with chat and chat help on top
> and zero. I have the correct stuff in the help list , but then still back
> to zero ???? 9:15PM EDT--- HSJ
>
> On 2 Jun 2002 21:02:16 -0000 S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:
> >
> > We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.
> >
> > Sunday Chat
> >
> > Date: Sunday, June 2, 2002
> > Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)
> >
> > Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19823 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 6/3/2002
Subject: Viral E-mail??? gabbysuz?
Greetings,

I've been following with fear, the thread on viruses. Yesterday I
received a blank e-mail with an attachment. "FlagsAll.scr" I don't
recognize the "scr" term so I didn't open it and replied to the sender
for further information. This morning it was returned "undeliverable -
fatal errors". Anyone know anything about this?

If you like, I could send it to you. ;-)

Thanks,

Bill

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19824 From: Scott Holm Date: 6/3/2002
Subject: New infections
It appears that Wally Collins and Gale Hall have the klez viruses on
their computers. I received two e-mails from other people that had the
klez virus attached and after examing the full headers, Wally and
Gales' addresses showed up as the actual sources. Bill also sent me the
one he received and that too came from Gale Hall. If anybody on this
list has received virus carrying e-mails, even though they have another
name in the from field, and you have conversed in the past with Gale or
Wally, it's a strong possibility that it came from one of them. You can
examine the full headers to check it out. In the following example you
can see the real e-mail source in the return path. (I replaced Gale's
e-mail with a bogus address to prevent it from being visible in the
list archives.)


From mha Sun Jun 2 12:27:26 2002

X-Apparently-To: imsscott@... via web9006; 02 Jun 2002 12:27:38
-0700 (PDT)

Return-Path: <infectee@...> <========== Real Sender

Received: from mta3.rcsntx.swbell.net (151.164.30.27) by
mta469.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 02 Jun 2002 12:27:37 -0700 (PDT)

Received: from Brdvnzcf ([208.191.55.225]) by mta3.rcsntx.swbell.net
(Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) with SMTP id
<0GX300JYTFDDM7@...> for imsscott@...; Sun, 2
Jun 2002 14:27:26 -0500 (CDT)

Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 14:27:26 -0500 (CDT)

Date: Date header was inserted by mta3.rcsntx.swbell.net

From: "mha" <mha@xa.k> | Block Address | Add to Address Book

Subject: A nice game

To: imsscott@...

Message-id: <0GX300JYVFDDM7@...>

MIME-version: 1.0

Content-type: multipart/alternative;
boundary=D55405ht4c48D19Iq7e373W22e9956XP79

Content-Length: 74600




This is a nice game
This game is my first work.
You're the first player.
I expect you would like it.




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19825 From: Roger Hinds Date: 6/3/2002
Subject: Train virus ?
I got an e-mail from, sscale
The subject line is, So cool a flash enjoy it.
No message. I deleted it real quick.

So is someone, named sscale, sending a computer virus ?

Comments ???

Time to run my virus program.

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 19826 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/3/2002
Subject: Virus
Hi Guys,
There are so many ways that this virus is spread that it
cannot be traced back to just one person. It has gone into address books of
members & nonmembers. It has crossed back & forth to the point that no one
person can take the "HIT" for spreading it. Just my opinion&2cents. Mike S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19827 From: rcon7@bellsouth.net Date: 6/3/2002
Subject: Re: Virus
THANKS....HAVING E-MAIL PROBLEMS....RIGHT CLICKED ON A SUSP. E-MAIL THIS MORNING...BANG....HAVE TO GO LONG WAY AROUND TO READ NEW MAILS NOW UNTIL THE COMPANY SENDS A NEW DISK TO REPAIR...MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO RESPOND FOR A WHILE...BOB

GUYS...THIS MORNING I HAD A SUSP. LOOKING E-MAIL...I RIGHT CLICKED ON IT TO BLOCKIT AND DELETE IT AND NOT OPEN IT....BANG...MY ADDRESS BOOK POPPED UP ON THE SCREEN...I TRIED TO SHUT DOWN...NO WAY....JUST HIT MASTER AND SHUT DOWN ALL....WHEN I TRIED TO RESTART..ALL WAS MESSED UP....RESET COMPUTER TO ANOTHER DAY...ALL WORKS FINE NOW, BUT I CAN NOT GET E-MAILS IN OR OUT EXCEPT BY GOING THRU THE COMPANY...WATCH OUT...BOB
>
> From: anormal1@...
> Date: 2002/06/03 Mon PM 07:46:19 EDT
> To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [S-Trains] Virus
>
> Hi Guys,
> There are so many ways that this virus is spread that it
> cannot be traced back to just one person. It has gone into address books of
> members & nonmembers. It has crossed back & forth to the point that no one
> person can take the "HIT" for spreading it. Just my opinion&2cents. Mike S
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19828 From: louis glumac Date: 6/3/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Hi does anyone know where i may find parts and info about american flyer o
gage zypher set,,,,, i know this is a s gage room,,,, and i am a s gage
person,but gotthis set, and tryingto get it running,thanks,,,,,,,,,,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Howell S Jobbins" <hsjobbins@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Reminder - Sunday Chat


> >
> > Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19829 From: Damian Brindell Date: 6/3/2002
Subject: Re: Viral E-mail??? gabbysuz?
Certain file types are "executable" which means they are programs that can
run on your computer. The most common executables are:

.exe executable file
.bat batch file
.pif program information file
.scr script file
.vbs visual basic script.

If you just avoid clicking on attachments of these types, you will go a long
way toward virus prevention. If you ever see an attachment of these types,
just delete the entire e-mail immediately. Don't open it, click on it, or
try to reply to it.

Dan B.

----- Original Message -----
From: <wmhtreftsv@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 9:18 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Viral E-mail??? gabbysuz?


> Greetings,
>
> I've been following with fear, the thread on viruses. Yesterday I
> received a blank e-mail with an attachment. "FlagsAll.scr" I don't
> recognize the "scr" term so I didn't open it and replied to the sender
> for further information. This morning it was returned "undeliverable -
> fatal errors". Anyone know anything about this?
>
> If you like, I could send it to you. ;-)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19830 From: Roger Hinds Date: 6/3/2002
Subject: Re: Virus
I have been told there are code numbers to read after you use "Source" to view the
document. The numbers tell who originated the virus. You need to find a place that
tells how to decode the virus.

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 19831 From: Roger Hinds Date: 6/3/2002
Subject: Trains and viruses
I suppose most of us are annoyed with virus discussions in this area.
A lot of us use computers for train related use. SO it is important to
help to get rid of them.
A good virus removal program is a must.
Get into "proprieties" and clean out your cache, and history areas.
"PcTools" doesn't just delete programs. It gets rid the entire program.
Use Remove/Add to get rid of programs. Check with someone to
find out what the program is first.
Get into DOS. Find all the Temp files and get rid of them.
empty your trash bins.
Use Defrag to clean things up.
Use undelete to see if there are leftover deleted files. Don't recover
them unless it something you really want to recover.
Using a program that converts the file to hexadecimal, or ascii. Will allow
you to delete the file totally. Just high light the beginning with your cursor
and hold down the delete key until it is all gone.
"Pctools" or some other program that will remove a file in its entirety is
the easiest way to go.
Anyway even if you didn't have a virus, your computer will run faster
with all that junk gone.
Sorry for this Spam. I am trying to help you guys resolve your computer
problems so you can spend more time with your trains.

Swing and Sway the "S" gauge way.

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 19832 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: small lay outs
http://layoutdesigns.com/

Jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19833 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: small lay outs
http://www.pgh.net/~carendt/microplans/index.html

Jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19834 From: Wayne Zebron Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: virus
Hi,

I too received the "swbell" virus thing. Norton Anti Virus picked it up as
the my computer was collecting the e-mail. It was not able to repair it,
but was able to delete it. If you do not have an anti virus program, look
into getting one. The cost is well worth it, and you can extend the online
"live updates" of virus definitions for about 10 buck per year.

Wayne
Group: S-Trains Message: 19835 From: Scott Holm Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Re: Virus
--- anormal1@... wrote:
> There are so many ways that this virus is spread that
> it cannot be traced back to just one person.

There is only one way the virus is spread; by opening executable
attachments, either by intention or by using an unpatched version of
outlook that opens scripts in the preview window.

> It has gone into address books of members & nonmembers.

The virus is not in address books; when a computer is infected it
searches address books to send out e-mail with those addresses in the
from field so it looks like it's coming from someone who is probably
not infected.

> It has crossed back & forth to the point that no one person can take
the "HIT" for spreading it.

People are either infected or they are not. Those who are infected
certainly are responsible for spreading it and they will need to fix
their computers to rid themselves of the virus.




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19836 From: John Foley Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Railroad Model Craftsman
Hi Folks
Check out the inside front cover of the July RMC
when it comes out.
John Foley
NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 19837 From: Tim Brown Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] virus
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Brown
To: Wayne Zebron
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] virus


To anyone who doesn't use virus protection: please unsubscribe from this list, or delete me from your mailing list. I do not want to engage in unprotected email.

Cheers,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Zebron
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 10:03 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] virus


Hi,

I too received the "swbell" virus thing. Norton Anti Virus picked it up as
the my computer was collecting the e-mail. It was not able to repair it,
but was able to delete it. If you do not have an anti virus program, look
into getting one. The cost is well worth it, and you can extend the online
"live updates" of virus definitions for about 10 buck per year.

Wayne


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19838 From: af21115 Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: [S-Trains] virus
Interesting. On none of my PC's do I run any anti-virus software. I
find they bog down the PC and are basically useless. I am on ATT
Worldnet service, and use only ZoneAlarm personal firewall, and I get
NOTHING. No viruses, no SPAM, nothing undesired on any of my PC's.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19839 From: Paul Yorke Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: New 'S' Website!
Hi guys. I have heard your complaint and I am working on some
solutions.
One big step in that direction is http://www.s-trains.westhost.com
This site will eventually allow you guys to contribute content, but
unlike Yahoo, I am picking up the tab.

It will also include mailing lists. But that will need to be tested. I
suspect we will stay with the yahoo chat for now, until we find a
replacement.

Please visit http://www.s-trains.westhost.com and let me know what you
think. This site uses the latest software and I hope you will jump in
and start interacting with it. It does use a login for some activities,
but I am the only one with access to the database and that should put
you minds to rest..

Jump in, and let me know what you think, we can change the site to suit
our needs.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19840 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: SPAM and Viruses
I got a couple of those virus e-mails the other day. Both were batch files
(.bat). God only knows what they would have done if I opened the
attachments. Someone I know sent me a joke and it turned out to be a .eml
file. I never open those either.

Here is something you guys might like. It comes from PC World On-Line, a
share ware source use all the time.

AvirMail
Stop spam and viruses before they reach your computer. Unwanted e-mail
can be a nuisance and even a risk to your PC. With this e-mail
utility, you can preview, read, filter and delete e-mail on your
Internet service provider's POP3 server, then download only the
messages you really want to read. AvirMail works with all popular POP3
e-mail software and multiple e-mail accounts.

Version: 1.70
Price: Free

Download AvirMail now at:
http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file_description/0,fid,21920,tk,hsx,00.asp

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19841 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: OK
I see that the one at CommunityZero.com has been deleted. Were Rick's photos moved, or lost?


---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19842 From: Don Thompson Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Re: Blatant Commerce from SHS
The #00803 Mexene Chili Powder reefer ($39.95) and Frisco three
rebuilt boxcar sets ($99.95) arrived yesterday. These can be seem at:
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
and : http://www.showcaseline.com/3carrwoodeneefersets_in_stock.html

Also, we received the silver sideframes and fuel tanks for the WP
F-3s. If you have a WP F-3 and would like the silver set, please
contact us off-line.
Don


-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 19843 From: Robert Wight Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Re: New 'S' Website!
Paul; Nice site. Checked it all out. Checked out the links. rock and roll.
Bob Wight




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19844 From: Tim Brown Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: [S-Trains] virus
Hi,

Thank you for identifying yourselve as not using virus filtering software. I have initiated a block on email from you. Since I have become a member to this list, I have been both entertained and informed. However, there has not been any single person's contribution that has, in my opinion, been that entertaining or that informative as to risk an expensive repair or replacement to my home computer. Let's put this list in perspective. It's a hobby.

I consider it irresponsible for a person not to use virus filtering software when sending or receiving emails. If there is anyone else on this list who runs naked through cyberspace, please post your email address to this list so that I can block your address as well. Hopefully, there won't be any.

Otherwise, let's run those trains.

Later,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Holm
To: Tim Brown
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [S-Trains] virus


I have no intention of unsubscribing from the list. I don't need virus
protection because I don't open attachments.

--- Tim Brown <Timboy@...> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim Brown
> To: Wayne Zebron
> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 3:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] virus
>
>
> To anyone who doesn't use virus protection: please unsubscribe from
> this list, or delete me from your mailing list. I do not want to
> engage in unprotected email.
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Wayne Zebron
> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 10:03 AM
> Subject: [S-Trains] virus
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I too received the "swbell" virus thing. Norton Anti Virus picked
> it up as
> the my computer was collecting the e-mail. It was not able to
> repair it,
> but was able to delete it. If you do not have an anti virus
> program, look
> into getting one. The cost is well worth it, and you can extend
> the online
> "live updates" of virus definitions for about 10 buck per year.
>
> Wayne
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19845 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: viruses and Tim Brown
Tim: I don't understand your logic, if that's what it is. If you have
virus protection, which you insist everyone have, then you are safe, right?
So why do you care what others have? Anti virus software clogs and slows
and disables many machines, and can be very difficult to remove if it
doesn't work. It's not a cut and dried choice, and there are other
options.

What I find really irritating is your rude tone toward Scott Holm. Scott
is one of the best informed, most experienced and talented, and most
consistently helpful people on this list. He has helped me many times.
For you to casually dismiss his contributions in such an arrogant manner
offends me.

In order to be a success, this list requires from its members a more
respectful attitude than you have shown in this exchange.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19846 From: AF336 Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: [S-Trains] virus
Well I guess you better block me, but I don't exactly consider myself
running naked through cyberspace.

I keep up on the virus definitions, and scan my system manually as a double
check. I also keep up with the security upgrades since I use
explorer/outlook express.

Most I.S. professionals don't use virus software at home. I consider it a
must with multiple users of a pc, or when on a network, but if the only
contact with the outside world is through is through an ISP a virus software
package is a waste of dollars for some people. It is a must investment for
others, but please don't assume that it is irresponsible to not use it.

I consider it narrow minded that anyone would presume to know what someone
else should do with their computer relative to virus protection. Your only
protection against viruses is knowledge. Blind faith in any commercially
available virus package is in my opinion irresponsible. These packages are
created by human beings and they can only update the definitions after
someone has been hit.

I think members on the list should consider this....did you get a virus and
were you running virus software? I suspect for some the answer is yes and
yes.

I suspect if you read the complete mail headers you will not find any that
actually originated from Scott Holm or me.

sign me...

Virus and virus protection software clean...

P.S. if you really want to be safe read the list through the web interface
only. There is no way to transmit a virus as it blocks attachments.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>
To: "S-List" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...>;
"af21115" <Dave0616@...>
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [S-Trains] virus


> Hi,
>
> Thank you for identifying yourselve as not using virus filtering software.
I have initiated a block on email from you. Since I have become a member to
this list, I have been both entertained and informed. However, there has
not been any single person's contribution that has, in my opinion, been that
entertaining or that informative as to risk an expensive repair or
replacement to my home computer. Let's put this list in perspective. It's
a hobby.
>
> I consider it irresponsible for a person not to use virus filtering
software when sending or receiving emails. If there is anyone else on this
list who runs naked through cyberspace, please post your email address to
this list so that I can block your address as well. Hopefully, there won't
be any.
>
> Otherwise, let's run those trains.
>
> Later,
> Tim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Scott Holm
> To: Tim Brown
> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 4:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Fw: [S-Trains] virus
>
>
> I have no intention of unsubscribing from the list. I don't need virus
> protection because I don't open attachments.
>
> --- Tim Brown <Timboy@...> wrote:
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Tim Brown
> > To: Wayne Zebron
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 3:58 PM
> > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] virus
> >
> >
> > To anyone who doesn't use virus protection: please unsubscribe from
> > this list, or delete me from your mailing list. I do not want to
> > engage in unprotected email.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Tim
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Wayne Zebron
> > To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 10:03 AM
> > Subject: [S-Trains] virus
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I too received the "swbell" virus thing. Norton Anti Virus picked
> > it up as
> > the my computer was collecting the e-mail. It was not able to
> > repair it,
> > but was able to delete it. If you do not have an anti virus
> > program, look
> > into getting one. The cost is well worth it, and you can extend
> > the online
> > "live updates" of virus definitions for about 10 buck per year.
> >
> > Wayne
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19847 From: roy inman Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Virie, etc.
I have a filtering device for spam and viruses which I update periodically.
Since my system is MAC, it is virtually immune to viruses anyway. There is
one little gismo to turn off in the MAC and virtually all viruses are
blocked anyway.
Of course I never open an unsolicited attachment.
But don't everyone go out and get a MAC. Right now we are 2-3% of the cyber
world, not worth the effort of those with no life beyond the computer to
fiddle with. If everyone used one, we would be the ones scurrying to keep
from getting infected.
Regards,
Roy Inman
Group: S-Trains Message: 19848 From: Tom Pennington Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Re: viruses and Tim Brown
Tim's presentation may be less than diplomatic, but he is right in what
he is saying. I work in this field every day, and if you think you are safe,
try again. Just because it has not happened does not mean it won't. There
is another side to this as well. Every time one of these virus bombs goes off,
hundreds even thousands of bogus emails flood ISP servers. You may only
get one, but your ISP has to handle all the additional load of useless and
malicious
mail. Who do you think pays for that? It is one reason capacity is often
overloaded. If you think you are safe, go to www.zonelabs.com and download
the free version of their firewall and see how many times someone is probing
your system. I guarantee that unless you have a firewall, or are using
your company
computer behind a firewall, you will be scared at what is happening.

At 11:00 PM 6/4/02 -0400, jarcho@... wrote:
>Tim: I don't understand your logic, if that's what it is. If you have
>virus protection, which you insist everyone have, then you are safe, right?
>So why do you care what others have? Anti virus software clogs and slows
>and disables many machines, and can be very difficult to remove if it
>doesn't work. It's not a cut and dried choice, and there are other
>options.
>
>What I find really irritating is your rude tone toward Scott Holm. Scott
>is one of the best informed, most experienced and talented, and most
>consistently helpful people on this list. He has helped me many times.
>For you to casually dismiss his contributions in such an arrogant manner
>offends me.
>
>In order to be a success, this list requires from its members a more
>respectful attitude than you have shown in this exchange.
>
>Tom Jarcho
>
>
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
>s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19849 From: Knight, Gene Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: more virus stuff
I built the computer I use at home about two years ago and up until a couple of months agi, I never had any virus protection installed. The only reason I have it now is the price was right. Not once have I ever been infected wit any type of virus or trojan. I like others have mentioned just delete any and all attachments regardless of who they came from...no problems!

Gene
Group: S-Trains Message: 19850 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Re: New 'S' Website!
Great idea, Paul! I await my pw.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19851 From: Gary Chidester Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Inspector Nail?
I gave my neighbor that collects coins and tokens something for his
collection and so he brought me a nail with a number 59 in the end of it.
It is a large nail and he said it was an inspector nail. It is quite large
about 3/4 of an inch across the head and at least a quarter inch diameter
shaft. Can anyone tell me a little more about what they were and what
exactly was being inspected if that's what it is? It sounds reasonable to
me, but I don't know.

Thanks,

gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 19852 From: David Dewey Date: 6/4/2002
Subject: Re: Inspector Nail?
Gary,
That's a "Date Nail" put in ties to show the date of their installation.
I don't think they are used nowadays, but they are a bit collectable;
although I've not heard of "high prices" asked of them. The nails were
usually in the top of the tie, a bit to one side of center. Used to be you
could walk the tracks and see how old some ties were. Of course this
activity required one to also be aware of on-coming trains and RR Bulls!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19853 From: Tim Brown Date: 6/5/2002
Subject: Virus & me
Hi to almost all,

Don't mean to come off as arrogant, but I stand my ground. Arrogance is the one who says they won't and don't care. The elimination of transmitted virus programs is everyone's responsibility. Knowledge is power. Use of protection shows wisdom, prudence and social responsibility. If I sound rude, now you know how much it offends me, that some few would hold the well-being of my system in such low regard. Why not turn this into something positive? Do the right thing. Invest in software filtering for virus. It may not be foolproof, but it will go a long way for a nominal investment.

I've spoken my peace. I've got a train layout to build.

Regards,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19854 From: bassflyer Date: 6/5/2002
Subject: Virus protection and new site....
Last year I was running bare,...no protection,..just before
Christmas,..as I was loading a virus protection program,..I got a
virus!! I was a little to late,...took my computer in, and got it
taken care of,..they didn't charge me because my computer was just in
the shop for a cd-burner repair.
Still had some quirks,..been puttin' up with them,...recently
downloaded "Explorer 6",...and so far, all of my quirks are gone! I
thought I was going to have to re-load everything,...that's why I had
been putting it off for months.
I'm no expert here, on computers,...but I can't imagine taking a
computer into the shop every time one gets a virus. Unless one can
fix it themself!

Checked out the new site,...waiting for my password. Let's see
what happens there!

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19855 From: Roger Hinds Date: 6/5/2002
Subject: Virus protection product
For computer virus protection. By a clear latex rubber bag.
Unroll over your computer................
Group: S-Trains Message: 19856 From: Mark Preman Date: 6/5/2002
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
If you haven't already noticed, The new list is posted
at http://www.americanflyertrains.com

I also have a small group of new(unassembled) PRS 50'
car kits for $20 each. E-mail if you are interested.

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19857 From: cliffgarz@aol.com Date: 6/5/2002
Subject: Re: Virus
Don't have to worry much about them on the Macintosh. mmmm Maybe Steve is a
little bit smarter than Bill.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19858 From: bassflyer Date: 6/5/2002
Subject: PC/Mac.....
cliffgarz@a... wrote:
**((Don't have to worry much about them on the Macintosh. mmmm
Maybe Steve is a little bit smarter than Bill.))**


Egads! Let's not start a PC-Mac discussion!! That could go on
forever!!
:-)

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19859 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 6/5/2002
Subject: Re: PC/Mac..... and Risky behavior
Well, I could refuse email from all of you users with "at risk"
Microsoft software, but who would I have the pleasure of talking trains
with other than the Mac guy?

It seems to me that everything Microsoft sells, is at risk from virus
and trojans. I run Linux, most of the time with Netscape email software.
Frankly, I am not seeing at all the virus files that are being reported.
In fact, I thought that attachments were deleted from messages sent
through the list, so I am a little puzzled on how so many of you are
getting them. I get my share of spam, and get a few blank messages, but
I do not see attachments, and if I did, wouldn't open them...

If you care to filter me, I DO NOT have a virus checker running on this
machine when running Linux. At last count, I think Linux did finally
have a virus, or maybe two. I do confess to booting Windows98 on
occasion, and my Norton Virus signatures list is up to over 60,000! With
my Linux I have the luxury of not thinking about the problem, and so
proceed along care free just enjoying the trains topic, when we are on
topic, which I at the moment am not. I appologize for that, but just
thought I finally had to stray off topic so that I would be in the
company of everyone else! :-)

But the person who pointed out that Windows, Internet Explorer,
Microsoft Word, Outlook and other Microsoft products should not be run
without a virus checker is dead on correct. You also should do regular
backups, and have your computer on a UPS.

Oh well, this will be my last off topic post for a while, unless I need
to defend myself for the transgression of being off topic.

Later.....Chuck

bassflyer wrote:

> cliffgarz@a... wrote:
> **((Don't have to worry much about them on the Macintosh. mmmm
>Maybe Steve is a little bit smarter than Bill.))**
>
>
>Egads! Let's not start a PC-Mac discussion!! That could go on
>forever!!
>:-)
>
>Rick.
>
>
--

Chuck Harrington

eBay myflyertrains@... - TCA# 99-50024

Personal Web Site - http://myflyertrains.com
Kris Model Trains Home - http://krismodeltrains.org
The All Aboard Sets Club - http://allaboardsetsclub.org
Group: S-Trains Message: 19860 From: The Reis's Date: 6/5/2002
Subject: Passenger car project and a product question
My latest project is to rework a string of Lionel/Flyer Northern Pacific
passenger cars to remove the hokey white frosted windows with their
oversized "people" prints on them. I then trace this on some frosted mylar,
cut it out and replace the original in the car while also installing
American models lighting instead of the single Flyer bulb.

My question: does anyone know of a supplier making replacement window sets
for these cars? Not the white ones but a clear or frosted versions without
the "people". I think the Lionel ones which are 1 piece of folded mylar
works much better than the multiple glued in pieces used by Gilbert.

A comment: A good project for someone would be to make window sets that
snap in such as those on AM passenger cars which would fit the Gilbert and
Lionel versions of these cars.

I know, I know....buy AM Budd cars....I asked Ron but he wont make NP cars
as he thinks there are too many already and no market. ( I have a UP set)

And no car length stuff here either.

Thanks

Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa

Greater Seattle S Gaugers



_________________________________________________

PLEASE NOTE THE NEW EMAIL ADDRESS ! !

finnhill@...

The gte / verizon account is now closed.
_________________________________________________


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19861 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 6/5/2002
Subject: UP Steam tour
Hi Gang = FYI

World's Largest Operating Steam Locomotive to Tour Midwest and Upper Midwest

Omaha, NE, May 23, 2002 – Union Pacific Railroad's "Challenger" No. 3985, the
world's largest operating steam locomotive, will be on a nine-state,
3,169-mile tour through the Midwest and upper Midwest beginning June 6.

The tour is celebrating railroad heritage and providing an opportunity for
several fund raising public steam excursion trips for two railroad historical
organizations.

During this tour, the Challenger steam locomotive will be on display in
several cities including Council Bluffs, Iowa; West Chicago, Illinois; South
St. Paul, Minnesota and Kansas City, Kansas.

Union Pacific's No. 3985, an articulated locomotive with a "hinged" frame to
allow it to negotiate curves, is 122 feet long. It weighs more than one
million pounds, has six-foot diameter drive wheels and can reach a top speed
of 70 miles per hour. No. 3985 was built in 1943 for fast freight service and
retired in 1959. In 1981, it was restored to running condition by UP employee
volunteers for special service. The Challenger is based in Cheyenne, Wyoming.


Union Pacific Corporation is one of America's leading transportation
companies. Its principal operating company, Union Pacific Railroad, is the
largest railroad in North America, covering 23 states across the western
two-thirds of the United States. A strong focus on quality and a
strategically advantageous route structure enable the company to serve
customers in critical and fast growing markets. It is a leading carrier of
low-sulfur coal used in electrical power generation and has broad coverage of
the large chemical-producing areas along the Gulf Coast. With competitive
long-haul routes between all major West Coast ports and eastern gateways, and
as the only railroad to serve all six gateways to Mexico, Union Pacific has
the premier rail franchise in North America. The Corporation's trucking
operations include Overnite Corporation which owns less-than-truckload
carriers, Overnite Transportation and Motor Cargo.



Schedule

<A HREF="http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/excurs/spring02sched.shtml">Spring Tour '02 </A>


Route Map and Photos

<A HREF="http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/excurs/spring2002.pdf">Route Map</A> (412K PDF file)



<A HREF="http://www.uprr.com/notes/graphics/kids.jpg">3985</A> (1136K - color, with children)
<A HREF="http://www.uprr.com/notes/corpcomm/graphics/kids.pdf">(562K PDF file)</A> <A HREF="http://www.uprr.com/notes/graphics/train.jpg">3985</A> (1186K - b&w)
<A HREF="http://www.uprr.com/notes/corpcomm/graphics/train.pdf">(594K PDF file)</A>








The statements and information contained in the news releases provided by
Union Pacific speak only as of the date issued. Such information by its
nature may become outdated, and investors should not assume that the
statements and information contained in Union Pacific's news releases remain
current after the date issued. Union Pacific makes no commitment, and
disclaims any duty, to update any of this information.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19862 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 6/5/2002
Subject: eBay, Virus, etc
All of this virus talk, and I know a number of you do use eBay, so look out. In the past week, McAffee has caught at least three infected files, temp files while I was on eBay. They couldn't be cleaned, so I deleted them. I ran a full scan on my machine (takes about an hour) and it shows clean, so they had to come out of eBay, that's all I had open. So, all I can say is to look out.

jfred



---------------------------------
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Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19863 From: Tim Brown Date: 6/6/2002
Subject: Re: eBay, Virus, etc
Hi,

I delete all contents of the web browser cache every time I log off. I check the cookies and keep only a few main ones. Periodically, I completely delete all contents of all temp folders, regardless of what 'warnings' I get from the system. There shouldn't be any executable files in those temp folders. If there are, gonzo. I also do an online virus update daily, not waiting for the system to do it. I have Norton set very sensitively. I want to see all attempts to get or leave a cookie, and all attempts to access my computer. I block all but a few main things, regardless of what 'warnings' I get. I like keeping a clean machine, and since I'm retired, I have the few moments it takes to do the extra housekeeping. Nothing is foolproof, but I try to make it as hard as I can for them to do their introverted coward's work. Thanks for the 'heads up', tho'.

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: JFrederick Roberts
To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 12:41 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] eBay, Virus, etc



All of this virus talk, and I know a number of you do use eBay, so look out. In the past week, McAffee has caught at least three infected files, temp files while I was on eBay. They couldn't be cleaned, so I deleted them. I ran a full scan on my machine (takes about an hour) and it shows clean, so they had to come out of eBay, that's all I had open. So, all I can say is to look out.

jfred



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19864 From: Clifford Manning Date: 6/6/2002
Subject: web site problems
I can not get Paul York's web site to come up. It says there is a java
text error. Anyone else having the same problem?

Clifford Manning
Group: S-Trains Message: 19865 From: Tim Brown Date: 6/6/2002
Subject: Re: web site problems
It came up, but took a little while. Prob'ly a server problem. It should clear up later.

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Clifford Manning
To: Paul Yorke ; S-Train
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 10:15 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] web site problems


I can not get Paul York's web site to come up. It says there is a java
text error. Anyone else having the same problem?

Clifford Manning


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All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19866 From: hcopter52 Date: 6/6/2002
Subject: Greenberg Guide to American Flyer
Hey folks, what is the general opinion of the Greenberg guide to
American Flyer by J.Deger? The one on motive power that keeps showing
up in the ebay auctions. Any Good? Worth having? I would be
interested in hearing from anyone who has it. Thanks as always,John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19867 From: Linda & Ted Weiler Date: 6/6/2002
Subject: Fall 'S' Fest
If there is a member of the Chicago area S group that is putting on the fall
Fest on this list, please contact me off list.

Thanks

Ted Weiler
tjweiler@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 19868 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains
group.

File : / Click Here!
Uploaded by : heuhaneyahs <heuhaneyahs@...>
Description : Look at all these different credit cards you can get! Good, bad, or no credit.

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/%20Click%20Here%21

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

heuhaneyahs <heuhaneyahs@...>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19869 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1478
HOW THE HELL DID THIS GET THROUGH?????

> Message: 6
> Date: 7 Jun 2002 07:05:25 -0000
> From: S-Trains
> Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
>
> Hello,
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains
> group.
> File : / Click Here!
> Uploaded by : heuhaneyahs <heuhaneyahs@...>
> Description : Look at all these different credit cards you can get!
Good, bad, or no credit.
> You can access this file at the URL
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/%20Click%20Here%21
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
> Regards,
> heuhaneyahs <heuhaneyahs@...>

This group just got spammed by an advertiser who posted an ad to our Files
area. I thought only memebers could post files. Did he join just to
advertise? Isn't there a wait time before you can get full access? Is this
going to be a new incursion by the ever clever salespeople of this
commercial world?

Let's mailbomb this freak and jam his box so full of crap he'll never get it
all untangled. I am so pissed!!!!!!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19870 From: Paul Yorke Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: more virus - sorry guys
If anyone knows
JSinagugli@...
or
Hendrx101@...
Please suggest to them that they seek professional
help with their virus related issues.

I get stuff with their email address embedded in the
expanded header info.

I am only sending this note after getting many virus
laden notes, many addressed as if they were coming
from me.

I have also sent notes to the above mentioned without
getting any response.


=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19871 From: robert allen conner Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1478
Chris...I too got it....DELETE....DELETE...etc....but I can't add block
sender to it!!!!! Just figured another virus......I remember buying my
latest out of date computer...slow 933 about two years ago...only had it a
few days and bam....A VIRUS WRECKED IT...the computer GURU who repaired it
pointed out a message it had come in on.....From this group....NAV is doing
pretty good so far...Try to update and scan daily....Bob Conner
Group: S-Trains Message: 19872 From: plotnick Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Fall S-Fest
For current information on the forthcoming FAll S-Fest, please see our page
at:
http://www.trainweb.org/casg/sfest.html
-Roy Plotnick, CASG

Roy E. Plotnick
Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences
University of Illinois at Chicago
845 W. Taylor St.
Chicago, Il .60607
phone: 312-996-2111 630-252-6377(May-August)
e-mail: plotnick@...
homepage: http://www.uic.edu/depts/geos/people/faculty/plotnick.html

"Those who do not know the literature are condemned to repeat it."
Group: S-Trains Message: 19873 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Paul Yorke
Paul, please send me your phone number so I can call you. Thanks. Chris
Burger
Group: S-Trains Message: 19874 From: bassflyer Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Re: Greenberg Guide to American Flyer
Well John,..
I have had mine for quite awhile, getting back into the ol'
AF trains,..I was pretty much buying what ever material I could find
on AF. The book is full of descriptions and pics of locos and rolling
stock. I use it often, for reference, and at times just to look at
pics of things I want!
But as I,...and many others on this list have pointed
out,...a price guide is just that,..a guide! Prices are never carved
in stone.
I had just mentioned about the claimed mistakes in the
Greenberg guides,...and even longer ago, I posted a question of what
kind of mistakes were in the guide,...but I never get much in the way
of replies on mistakes!
I also have the new AF guide,..put out by names I can't
remember,..and to steal a line from D. Dewey,.."It's buried in a pile
right now and can't find it!" :-)
IMHO,...it is a good reference book to have,..and I'm sure
you will get quite a few replies either way,...I hope more then I did
asking about Greenberg's mistakes!! :-)

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19875 From: Paul Yorke Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Trying to clear the confusion
1) I have not asked for money, and I am happy to say I
don't need it. (but I could use your help, read on)
1a) Don't forget we are already paying to keep yahoo
ads of our individual list notes. (an anominious donor
on S-Scale & Mark Preman on S-Trains)

2) The new website was never meant as a replacement
for the lists.
3) The 'announcement' feature is not a list. It is yet
another way your you guys to communicate with each
other and other folks that may not be part of the
lists.
4) The new website has lots of ways for you to
contribute content. You can contribute webpages,
calendar events, Links to exisiting webpages, FAQs,
photos, announcements and more stuff in the future.
5) I am also going to be looking asking for people
that want to assist with administrating the new site
to come forward.
6) Its possible that we could end up staying with
Yahoo, but I am looking into an altenative. It is a
simple listserve, no ads, no cost to you, no web
archive, no web reading & posting site.
If you want to join this pilot list send an email to
subscribe-trains@... to post to this
list .. trains@...
If you want to join this pilot list send an email to
subscribe-scale@... to post to this
list .. scale@...
7) You may have noticed but the list archive search on
the yahoo only looks at the current year. Kinda silly,
maybe just a bug.

I hope this helps clear things up. If you have anymore
questions please address them to me.

=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19876 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Re: New 'S' Website!
Hi Guys, Give this website a try, Paul has got the ground work started
here for you to see links, announcements that have responses in comments,
and rough trial picture pages, which you could all have, --- plus links
to your existing home pages if you have one. Nose around you'll be amazed
what is already , and it's only just begun.

On Tue, 04 Jun 2002 17:06:11 -0400 Paul Yorke <yorke@...> writes:
> Hi guys. I have heard your complaint and I am working on some
> solutions.
> One big step in that direction is http://www.s-trains.westhost.com
> This site will eventually allow you guys to contribute content, but
> unlike Yahoo, I am picking up the tab.
>
> It will also include mailing lists. But that will need to be tested.
> I
> suspect we will stay with the yahoo chat for now, until we find a
> replacement.
>
> Please visit http://www.s-trains.westhost.com and let me know what
> you
> think. This site uses the latest software and I hope you will jump
> in
> and start interacting with it. It does use a login for some
> activities,
> but I am the only one with access to the database and that should
> put
> you minds to rest..
>
> Jump in, and let me know what you think, we can change the site to
> suit
> our needs.
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19877 From: Mike Vana Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Boxed AF 906 crane car
Is a boxed AF 906 crane car pretty rare?
Last weekend a used train shop acquired a 1955
freight set with a 283 plus several extra cars
and accessories, most with original boxes. The
906 crane with a box struck me as odd. I thought
those were sold only with two sets, one with a
354 Silver Bullet and the other a 371 GP7, but
of course there are the stories about how stores
would substitute cars and break up sets. There
was no 907 boom car with it. Maybe it's the fact
that it was by itself that I find it odd, as I
suppose all the cars in sets around that time had
boxes.

The 906 has already been sold, but I didn't buy it.
Instead, I went back and bought the 283 two days
ago after I came home and looked at the three 283's
I already had and finding none were as nice. This
283 is close to mint, with very little use, perfect
lettering, the original wrapper and some of the
original paper.

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19878 From: Ron Inscho Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] Boxed AF 906 crane car
I received one of these in a set with a 300 Atlantic back in 1954. My
feeling is these were old excess stock at that time & were used as a filler
to make up low priced sets & show up in any set in combination with what
ever was handy at the time
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19879 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, June 9, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19880 From: af21115 Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1478
Look closely.... Its Yahoo themselves.....

Note the address is: S-Trains@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 19881 From: Joseph Haughney Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Where do you find this stuff??
Gentlemen:
I have been building up my flyer collection up since about 1990 as I've
had money to spare. (If I had only restarted it in the late sixties but
that is another story) I've got all the dealers sites lined up on the
web where I salivate and when I have the money spend it. I also check
EBAY and other auction sites on the Web. I also visit my local hobby
shops (e.b. Ro, NE trains) and Greenberg's and other shows when
weddings, graduations, funerals and other details don't interfere. I
have done pretty well with my attempts to get over time at least one
instance of each of Gilbert, Lionel, Showcase, etc. item but I still
have a long way to go. .

I have also visited a lot of garage sales with my wife who is the
primary instigator for going. For several hundred garage sales my
experience has been close to a flat zero for finding any AF stuff. I
found some Lionel and Pikemaster but I have never been fortunate enough
to come up with anything of AF at these things. I was wondering what the
experience of the members of the list has been since I want to beg off
going to garage sales with my wife. My only reason for going with her
has been the potential for finding that goodies fresh from the attic at
the ultimate cheap price. But based on my lack of success in finding
anything, I rather spend my time in the basement working and operating
the layout and bidding on EBAY rather then driving to the sales on
weekends and also trying to cram large items into my trunk or backseat.
But I still have the urge inside me to get the ultimate good deal. So
the bottom line question is based on your experiences have any of you
been successful in the past couple years in finding any flyer at garage
and house sales? Your replies may help me determine if I have to buy a
pick up trunk or start looking for an old MG C that replaces the old one
that rusted out on me.

Regards and thanks for your thoughts,
Joe Haughney


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19882 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: 906 crane car
The 906 crane did come in a set with the 371 GM GP-7 diesel, the 909
girder car, and the 907 crane caboose.

There used to be a huge Kodak billboard in Grand Central Station here in
NYC, until the yuppies made them pull it out. I believe it featured the
world's largest photograph at one time. Every holiday season for many
years, Kodak would continuously run a Super 8 home movie of an ideal
American family Christmas on it. The above mentioned train set was shown
running around the tree, even years after it had gone out of production. I
assume Kodak chose this set because it was so colorful, with the silver
diesel, orange girder, and yellow red and green crane, and they were trying
to sell color film. I knew my cousin had this set, and was fortunate to
eventually acquire it from him . The 906 crane was missing and I had no
difficulty finding a replacement. No boxes involved.

There was another add on car in this series, the 905 log car, in case you
couldn't get enough of freight cars with an almost featureless grey
stamped tinplate chassis.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19883 From: David Dewey Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Re: Where do you find this stuff??
Joe,
Well, I'd go for the MG, but then I have a soft spot for automotive
stuff that usually needs tinkering (except for my everyday ones!).
The day you don't go to the yard sales is the day that the MP set with a
PRR switcher freight companion will show up for $150. I once missed a Gabe
for $25 by a day! But I will admit that AF stuff seldom does show up around
here. It's usually an old Tyco set. The time spent w/your better half is
worth it, we seldom get whole days or even blocks of daylight hours together
anymore! Also, you can head off large ugly stuff destined for your living
room by being there before the purchase! ;-)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19884 From: Chuck Smith Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Re: Where do you find this stuff??
I never miss a train show I know of in the immediate area. I go to York
every fall. I gave up on garage sale many years ago. Never found any
Flyer after a certain point but it took a few years to realize how
scarce it is at garage sales and I was wasting my time in that venue.

Joseph Haughney wrote:
>
> Gentlemen:
> I have been building up my flyer collection up since about 1990 as I've
> had money to spare. (If I had only restarted it in the late sixties but
> that is another story) I've got all the dealers sites lined up on the
> web where I salivate and when I have the money spend it. I also check
> EBAY and other auction sites on the Web. I also visit my local hobby
> shops (e.b. Ro, NE trains) and Greenberg's and other shows when
> weddings, graduations, funerals and other details don't interfere. I
> have done pretty well with my attempts to get over time at least one
> instance of each of Gilbert, Lionel, Showcase, etc. item but I still
> have a long way to go. .
>
> I have also visited a lot of garage sales with my wife who is the
> primary instigator for going. For several hundred garage sales my
> experience has been close to a flat zero for finding any AF stuff. I
> found some Lionel and Pikemaster but I have never been fortunate enough
> to come up with anything of AF at these things. I was wondering what the
> experience of the members of the list has been since I want to beg off
> going to garage sales with my wife. My only reason for going with her
> has been the potential for finding that goodies fresh from the attic at
> the ultimate cheap price. But based on my lack of success in finding
> anything, I rather spend my time in the basement working and operating
> the layout and bidding on EBAY rather then driving to the sales on
> weekends and also trying to cram large items into my trunk or backseat.
> But I still have the urge inside me to get the ultimate good deal. So
> the bottom line question is based on your experiences have any of you
> been successful in the past couple years in finding any flyer at garage
> and house sales? Your replies may help me determine if I have to buy a
> pick up trunk or start looking for an old MG C that replaces the old one
> that rusted out on me.
>
> Regards and thanks for your thoughts,
> Joe Haughney
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 19885 From: Roger Delthony Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Deger Volume I - Motive Power
I have the volumes I, II, and III, and refer to them a lot. To my
knowledge they are good references. Someone who is more expert on Flyer
than I would have to comment on their accuracy.

Roger Delthony
Group: S-Trains Message: 19886 From: The Reis's Date: 6/7/2002
Subject: Re: Where do you find this stuff??
You may want to broaden what you look for. We have flea markets at the old
drive in theatres both north and south of Seattle on weekends. I actually
found a decent Flyer Atlantic set there last year for $20. The only set I
have found in many years. I have also found a couple of Lionel sets cheap
enough to trade off to Lionel friends for a few things. At garage sales
there are other items too. I wandered into one in a brand new neighborhood
a couple of years ago and found 2 Buddy-L tanker trucks and about 20 redline
Hot wheels for $20. I lucked out as the Hot wheels went away to a collector
for $100 and I still have the Buddy -L tankers that should be worth about
$50 + each. Another time I found some Lionel books and sold them at TCA for
flyer money. There are a number of things that are collectible than can be
traded for flyer or sold on ebay or at swap meets for train money. But then
it is easy to get stuck with stuff which is not sellable too. Sometimes it's
just fun to get out with the wife away from my teenagers on a sunny day.

By the way, today it rained about a half inch, hailed about the same, and
is sunny now. A typical late spring day in Seattle.

Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa.

Greater Seattle S Gaugers



-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Haughney [mailto:J.Haughney@...]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 7:05 PM
To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Where do you find this stuff??


Gentlemen:
I have been building up my flyer .........

I have also visited a lot of garage sales with my wife who is the
primary instigator for going. For several hundred garage sales my
experience has been close to a flat zero for finding any AF stuff.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19887 From: Clifford Manning Date: 6/8/2002
Subject: 322 power
I have a 322 that runs great by it's self but has very little power. 6
or 7 cars and it creeps.
Does anyone have any suggestions.

I just installed the new can motor in my 350 because the armature was
badly damaged on the contact plates. It runs like new. I am very
impressed. Congratulations to Carl and everyone who was envolved. I
cannot wait until the diesel motor comes out.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19888 From: Tim Brown Date: 6/8/2002
Subject: Re: Where do you find this stuff??
Hi,

IMHO, due to the Antiques Roadshow and all it's spin-offs, it's very difficult (but not impossible) these days to find ANYTHING at bargain prices at yard sales and flea markets. Everyone is an expert on 'antiques' these days and everyone knows their stuff is the most valuable junk in the cosmos. Also, all the boomers running around trying to get their toys back has driven prices up to all time highs and supply down to all time lows. I say this, being a boomer myself.

Fun lookin', tho'. I believe the thrill is in the quest, not the possession.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Smith
To: Joseph Haughney
Cc: s-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Where do you find this stuff??


I never miss a train show I know of in the immediate area. I go to York
every fall. I gave up on garage sale many years ago. Never found any
Flyer after a certain point but it took a few years to realize how
scarce it is at garage sales and I was wasting my time in that venue.

Joseph Haughney wrote:
>
> Gentlemen:
> I have been building up my flyer collection up since about 1990 as I've
> had money to spare. (If I had only restarted it in the late sixties but
> that is another story) I've got all the dealers sites lined up on the
> web where I salivate and when I have the money spend it. I also check
> EBAY and other auction sites on the Web. I also visit my local hobby
> shops (e.b. Ro, NE trains) and Greenberg's and other shows when
> weddings, graduations, funerals and other details don't interfere. I
> have done pretty well with my attempts to get over time at least one
> instance of each of Gilbert, Lionel, Showcase, etc. item but I still
> have a long way to go. .
>
> I have also visited a lot of garage sales with my wife who is the
> primary instigator for going. For several hundred garage sales my
> experience has been close to a flat zero for finding any AF stuff. I
> found some Lionel and Pikemaster but I have never been fortunate enough
> to come up with anything of AF at these things. I was wondering what the
> experience of the members of the list has been since I want to beg off
> going to garage sales with my wife. My only reason for going with her
> has been the potential for finding that goodies fresh from the attic at
> the ultimate cheap price. But based on my lack of success in finding
> anything, I rather spend my time in the basement working and operating
> the layout and bidding on EBAY rather then driving to the sales on
> weekends and also trying to cram large items into my trunk or backseat.
> But I still have the urge inside me to get the ultimate good deal. So
> the bottom line question is based on your experiences have any of you
> been successful in the past couple years in finding any flyer at garage
> and house sales? Your replies may help me determine if I have to buy a
> pick up trunk or start looking for an old MG C that replaces the old one
> that rusted out on me.
>
> Regards and thanks for your thoughts,
> Joe Haughney
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19889 From: David Dewey Date: 6/8/2002
Subject: Re: 322 power
Cliff,
Many possibilities. Check for slop in the drive wheels indicating
excessive wear in the chassis bearing holes. Weak brush springs, bad reverse
unit contacts. A cold solder joint, or even a partially fried commutator.
One overlooked item is reversed drive rods. The AF drive rods do have a
front and back--the front holes are oval shaped. The easiest way to check
this is to look for the "bump" in the rods behind the center hole. It should
go to the rear.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19890 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 6/8/2002
Subject: Garage Sales & AF
Joe,

Well, I'm one of those lucky ones who struck gold at a yard sale. I saw
the add in our local paper and it listed "trainboard". I was there at 8
am for the opening. (I'd been to a sale before that advertised trains,
but all were sold when I got there at 10.) This wasn't a home I would
expect to find old trains in. It was built about 15 years ago. "Do you
still have the trainboard?" "Yes." "Is it 2 or 3 rail?" "Two, but it
isn't HO." was the sullen response I received. My heart started beating
faster. We went to the basement and before me lay a 4 X 8 layout, a loop
of track with a passing loop using 2 remote control switches. I saw a
train, several accessories, plasticville buildings, transformer, and
small, misc. "stuff". I asked how much they were asking and he didn't
know. I offered $100 and he said "let me check." His wife gave approval
and allowed me to leave it there for a week until I cleared a space here.
It was built to come apart in the middle and the whole board then sets
on another 4 X 8 sheet with legs. I paid them, came home and started to
look up what I just bought. Don't cry, but here's the list:

772 Checkerboard Water Tower
779 Oil drum loader
751 Log loader
Rocket launcher car (no rocket)
Talking Union Station
Crossing Gate
Sam the Semaphore
a regular semaphore w/lock out eliminator
586F Wayside Station
760 Automatic Highway flasher
Whistling Billboard
Log unloading car with logs
Roadbed under all track sections

Now, keep it mind, this was not pristine equipment. I had to get a repro
forklift and man and more barrels for the loader, shack roof for the
water tower, crossing gate arms, clean the track and the semaphore. (It
wouldn't throw all the way to complete the circuit for the side loop.)
All was wired and set to go otherwise. Some dad had a lot of
fun/headaches 45 years ago.

I think I did well.

I don't remember the engine and didn't have a set book to look it up in
at the time. Since then I have run several trains down the rails and
mixed the cars in with my others.

I haven't had a lot of luck since then. This was probably my one "big
win." I haven't seen AF at any yard sales since, but keep checking the
adds in the weekly local paper and hoping.

This is a good time for NOT bringing the wife. My experience is she
slows me down looking at clothes for grandkids. I can cover more sales
alone and feel freer buying something without those sighs coming from
over my shoulder. (I am a closet collector.)

Other "lucky hits": Radio call in classifieds. Rare that anyone calls
one in for sale, but that is where I got my passenger set. Another
story, another time.

eBay is chancey. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. Got a beautiful 405
from someone who didn't have photo capabilities and lived north of our
border. But usually I get what I expected at the price I paid.

Antique malls: I run into some AF, but usually antique dealers think it
is made of gold and price according to their opinion. Hmmm, I did get a
370 for $5 once. Converted to a knuckle coupler on one end and had a
cold solder joint. It wasn't priced, I asked the shop keeper who said
"$5. My wife usually prices the stuff." I haven't seen train stuff
there ever since.

Well, enough bragging. I will apologize for my outburst of the day. You
just hit the right button! (Thanks! I can only keep it in for so long!)

Good luck in your hunting! I know there is more AF out there, I just
have to beat you to it!

Bill (the closet collector) ;-)

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19891 From: Tim Brown Date: 6/8/2002
Subject: Re: Garage Sales & AF
Bravo! Can anyone top that!

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: wmhtreftsv@...
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 11:33 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Garage Sales & AF


Joe,

Well, I'm one of those lucky ones who struck gold at a yard sale. I saw
the add in our local paper and it listed "trainboard". I was there at 8
am for the opening. (I'd been to a sale before that advertised trains,
but all were sold when I got there at 10.) This wasn't a home I would
expect to find old trains in. It was built about 15 years ago. "Do you
still have the trainboard?" "Yes." "Is it 2 or 3 rail?" "Two, but it
isn't HO." was the sullen response I received. My heart started beating
faster. We went to the basement and before me lay a 4 X 8 layout, a loop
of track with a passing loop using 2 remote control switches. I saw a
train, several accessories, plasticville buildings, transformer, and
small, misc. "stuff". I asked how much they were asking and he didn't
know. I offered $100 and he said "let me check." His wife gave approval
and allowed me to leave it there for a week until I cleared a space here.
It was built to come apart in the middle and the whole board then sets
on another 4 X 8 sheet with legs. I paid them, came home and started to
look up what I just bought. Don't cry, but here's the list:

772 Checkerboard Water Tower
779 Oil drum loader
751 Log loader
Rocket launcher car (no rocket)
Talking Union Station
Crossing Gate
Sam the Semaphore
a regular semaphore w/lock out eliminator
586F Wayside Station
760 Automatic Highway flasher
Whistling Billboard
Log unloading car with logs
Roadbed under all track sections

Now, keep it mind, this was not pristine equipment. I had to get a repro
forklift and man and more barrels for the loader, shack roof for the
water tower, crossing gate arms, clean the track and the semaphore. (It
wouldn't throw all the way to complete the circuit for the side loop.)
All was wired and set to go otherwise. Some dad had a lot of
fun/headaches 45 years ago.

I think I did well.

I don't remember the engine and didn't have a set book to look it up in
at the time. Since then I have run several trains down the rails and
mixed the cars in with my others.

I haven't had a lot of luck since then. This was probably my one "big
win." I haven't seen AF at any yard sales since, but keep checking the
adds in the weekly local paper and hoping.

This is a good time for NOT bringing the wife. My experience is she
slows me down looking at clothes for grandkids. I can cover more sales
alone and feel freer buying something without those sighs coming from
over my shoulder. (I am a closet collector.)

Other "lucky hits": Radio call in classifieds. Rare that anyone calls
one in for sale, but that is where I got my passenger set. Another
story, another time.

eBay is chancey. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. Got a beautiful 405
from someone who didn't have photo capabilities and lived north of our
border. But usually I get what I expected at the price I paid.

Antique malls: I run into some AF, but usually antique dealers think it
is made of gold and price according to their opinion. Hmmm, I did get a
370 for $5 once. Converted to a knuckle coupler on one end and had a
cold solder joint. It wasn't priced, I asked the shop keeper who said
"$5. My wife usually prices the stuff." I haven't seen train stuff
there ever since.

Well, enough bragging. I will apologize for my outburst of the day. You
just hit the right button! (Thanks! I can only keep it in for so long!)

Good luck in your hunting! I know there is more AF out there, I just
have to beat you to it!

Bill (the closet collector) ;-)

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19892 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/8/2002
Subject: Re: Where do you find this stuff??
Garage sales usually represent the cleanout atempt of some family whose
children have now grown. If the "kids" are 20, the junk accumulated since
1982. Too late for real trains! The trick will be to see if LTI Flyer
starts showing up in garage sales over the next few years.

While I'm on this topic, I must confess a technique I use when I DO find
Flyer. My face used to brighten like a kid in a Trotta painting and
immediately the seller knew I was hooked. I'm sure my poor poker-face
skills cost me in dollars. But once, I found a Lionel engine for $10. It
would have been $20, but the woman saw my disappointment and lowered the
price, so . . .
now, if I find Flyer, I do my best to show how disappointed I am that it's
not Lionel.

Guilty, I guess.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19893 From: robert allen conner Date: 6/8/2002
Subject: WHERE I FOUND IT......
Clear DayMy latest find was at a Train meet...I saw a new MTH log loader on the table...with a lot of other stuff...MIB...Price..$95.00....without thinking I offered 85.00....As I left I was thinking I paid too much.....Then I learned the real prices....Got my 2000 Christmas for 45 too...As for Garage sales...I don't even mess with them any more...Back in the days of 80 to 86 I had 2 guys looking for me...always got A new set or two each week...I have found that the best buys are usually found at OPEN meets as opposed to TCA, etc. meets...Out of the last 5 shows I have gone too I have found lots at 1/2 price....

BTW....Going from jax to greensboro ( sat show ) then to richmond, to buffalo, to erie ( gats show ) to charleston, wva, to jax...Know of any good places to get FLYER, and Model Airplanes...OLd ones...Bob Conner


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19894 From: Robert Wight Date: 6/8/2002
Subject: garage sale find
This week at a garage sale I did find a package of Angel Hair for 25 cents.
And it's all mine. Ya HaHaHaHaHa.
Bob Wight




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Group: S-Trains Message: 19895 From: David Dewey Date: 6/8/2002
Subject: Re: 322 power--one more thing!
Cliff,
I forgot one simple thing too. Some of these locos have a "finger" that
contacts the rear truck rivet to provide power to the loco. Corrosion here
can sometimes cause your problem. I use a bit of Ciag Labs "CaiLube"
here--boy do I love this Caig stuff, it does wonders! Thanks to Chris Z. for
getting it for us all!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19896 From: David Dewey Date: 6/8/2002
Subject: Re: Garage Sales & AF
Bill,
Two questions:
1) What's the "rest of the story" on the passenger set
2) What kind of closets do you collect??

;-)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19897 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 6/8/2002
Subject: turret transformer rollers
Does anyone on this list have any unused ORIGINAL graphite rollers for the
AF turret transformers? I would like to know what the outside diameter of
these would be. Also, is the contact surface slanted or straight? Most
replacement rollers sold by parts dealers are actually for Lionel
transformers, though they work well in Flyer ones. These are 3/8" in
outside diameter, with straight sides. I suspect the Gilbert ones were
somewhat smaller.

Thanks for your help.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19898 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/9/2002
Subject: Re: 322 power--one more thing!
David D(uck) sez:
>I use a bit of Ciag Labs "CaiLube"
>here--boy do I love this Caig stuff, it does wonders!

Well, it's about time! This is the first feedback I've seen. I'm happy to
see someone is using this stuff. I'm glad it was you, David!

Now that 39 of you have Cailube in your possession, I am expecting to hear
how it has changed your lives, removed your warts and flavored your soup.
It's not a collectible, so don't store it, use it!

For sale on e-Bay,
Item # 0987654321
MINT, L@@K, CAILUBE M260Cp IN ORIGINAL JAR!!!!!!!!!
I am not a collector, but I'll do my best to describe it. This is a white,
cylindrical jar about 3 inches tall by 2 inches in diameter with a label
(see series of pictures below, there are ten of them so let them load). The
jar shows some handling wear, but is otherwise MINT!!!!! Inside is a
reddish brown paste with hardly any odor. JAR HAS ONLY BEEN OPENED FOR
INSPECTION! NO CONTENTS HAVE BEEN REMOVED! Winning bidder pays $20
shipping, handling and insurance. Reserve is modest, with a LOW opening bid
of $40. Have fun bidding, and GOOD LUCK!!! Did I mention that it's
MINT??!!???!!!!


Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 19899 From: Rick Evans Date: 6/9/2002
Subject: Swap meets/yard sales....
Yesterday here in town was a good day for yard sales,....unfortunately I was too
busy to hit any because of a early band gig,...and dragging home a big piece
of carpet to put under my daughter's pool in the early a.m.!! I did hit one down the street from me though.
Anyway,..the point is,...I love the local swap meet at the drive-in,...and yard sales,..
always looking for a deal on somethin'....finding any Flyer is just a plus....of course I can
always hope there will be Flyer or train related stuff to find.
Also, like someone mentioned already,....buying other goodies such as Hot Wheels, HO stuff, Lionel, etc....can be re-sold for Flyer (or other "S") goodies! Gotta love that!!

Hmmmm...is it too late to find a yard sale this morning?? :-)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19900 From: louis glumac Date: 6/9/2002
Subject: Re: Swap meets/yard sales....
Well wentto local flea market today. and found two atlantics without
tenders for 25$ i though i was doing good myself,,,,,,,,,,,, guess the big
load is still outthere somewhere waiting for right man to find
it,,,,,,,,good hunting!!!!!!!!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Evans" <comic@...>
To: "S-Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 1:06 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Swap meets/yard sales....


> Yesterday here in town was a good day for yard
sales,....unfortunately I was too
> busy to hit any because of a early band gig,...and dragging home a big
piece
> of carpet to put under my daughter's pool in the early a.m.!! I did hit
one down the street from me though.
> Anyway,..the point is,...I love the local swap meet at the
drive-in,...and yard sales,..
> always looking for a deal on somethin'....finding any Flyer is just a
plus....of course I can
> always hope there will be Flyer or train related stuff to find.
> Also, like someone mentioned already,....buying other goodies such as
Hot Wheels, HO stuff, Lionel, etc....can be re-sold for Flyer (or other "S")
goodies! Gotta love that!!
>
> Hmmmm...is it too late to find a yard sale this morning?? :-)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19901 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 6/9/2002
Subject: 1/64 Vehicles
Walmart has American Muscle 1/64 scale kits, four to the set, for
$9.98. And after you assemble the four cars, you have four real
small Phillips head screwdrivers as a bonus!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 19902 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 6/9/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, June 9, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19903 From: mhrywest Date: 6/9/2002
Subject: MHry Weekend Report
This was a travel week so I was able to spend four glorious days in
Atlantic City New Jersey. To treat myself for this, I spent Friday
in Cliffwood, visiting S Helper Service. If you have met Robin, you
know she is a sweatheart and next to the trains, she is the reason
most of us want to stop in Cliffwood. Robin was kind enough to
offer to buy me luch during the visit but in exchange, I picked and
shipped several orders. If you had an order in last Friday, check
it twice....
I saw the test shot of the composit hopper. It really looks greaat,
nice detail, inside and outside the hopper body. I think it will be
another winner for S Scale.
I ordered an A-B-A set of Great Northern F-7's and took the
opportunity to review the prototype research that Don had done when
picking the unit and road number. I model the NP and the SOO so my
resources for GN are not as good. Among the resources Don has was
the Joseph Shine Great Northern Color Pictorial. The 454 series was
well documented in this book and I learned that GN bought units 454
A,B,C,D as an A-B-B-A set in March of 1950. They worked system
wide, with photos of them in Minneapolis and the West Coast. The
units will arrive from SHS in an as delivered condition. Here is
some interesting things that show how a modeler can still add some
personal touches to the units.
In August of 1964, a photo shows that 454A had received tow high
profile fans in the number 2 and 3 position. Replacing fans on F
units was common on the railroads I model so this did not suprize
me. It will be a simple change to drop in a couple of F-3 fans
during running maintenance, just to make my units a bit unique.
Just to make things interesting, I found a 1969 photo that showed
that the unit now only had one high fan. I noted that the 454
series kept the WABCO horns until the BN merger and never recevied
Winterizatoin hatches or nose rings like many of the F units did.
They did get the additional grab irons on the right side of the
engine, hand rails on the cab above the windshields and anti skid
pads over the nose. Again, these will be easy changes that any
modeler can accomplish.
I could not get a clear look at the top of the cab but it seemed
that there was additional piping on the roof over the cab area. I
have some photos of this on NP units, I will be looking to confirm
if the piping scheme was similar, A photo of the units late in
service showed some pretty sever weathering around 1970 and that the
454D had been repainted in the simplified Builder scheme. Great
news is that this set seems never to have been subjected to the Pig
Stye Blue scheme.
I think these units will look great assigned to Iron Ore Service out
of Da Range on the Minnesota Heartland.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19904 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/9/2002
Subject: FROSTED PASS CAR WINDOWS
Someone was looking for frosted pass car windows without the people? I saw
some at a TTOS show today that might be what you are looking for. They of
course are for the big L but might be cot to size. The person selling them
was ELECTRICNORMAN@... Contact them Or me. Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19905 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/9/2002
Subject: Re: 322 power--one more thing!
Chris Zizzo <busyboy@o...> wrote (in jest):

>The jar shows some handling wear, but is otherwise MINT!!!!! Inside
>JAR HAS ONLY BEEN OPENED FOR INSPECTION! Did I mention that it's
>MINT??!!???!!!!


Hey! If you opened it it's no longer "mint", best it can be called
is "like new."

Sheesh! These ebay guys!! :^)


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19906 From: eddie rickenbacker Date: 6/9/2002
Subject: Window material
Hey gang- since we all know 3 railers (and i can ask
myself), ask one if he has any K-Line 0-27
streamliners. Each coach comes with a frosted set of
window inserts , loose, as optional parts-some "panes
have printed window blind/shade patterns, to give them
a more real, random appearance. They trim nicely and
spiff up SHS and Flyer coaches. Another source for
frosted material is George Tebolt,from whom you can
also get the mottled green window material (for
shades) as used on pre-war tinplate.-John Marganski


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Group: S-Trains Message: 19907 From: aolh2oman Date: 6/9/2002
Subject: Hi Rail
Hi Folks
I am looking for AF Hi-Railers in the central California area (or be
willing to travel to the area) that may be interested in
doing a clinic on American Flyer.
Please contact me off list for more info.

Thank you
Joe Visintine
Salinas Ca.
h2oman@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 19908 From: Linda & Ted Weiler Date: 6/10/2002
Subject: Chicago Area 'S' Fest
Thanks to Roy Plotnic, John Griffin and Joe Craig for getting back to me with my questions.

I'm looking forward to my first Fest!!

Ted W.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19909 From: Roy E. Plotnick Date: 6/10/2002
Subject: Re: Garage sales etc.
As I've occasionally posted to this group, every year or so I get real
lucky at garage or rummage sales. Two years ago I picked up a NP
passenger set in original boxes. Two years before that it was Domino
Sugar car. Last year only a tank car. Maybe there was just more AF in my
area.
Last year I found a nice set, original boxes, of the T&P diesels. The
owner, after a brief discussion, decided "I'll see what I can get for these
on e-bay." I suspect a lot of stuff that used to be put out at garage
sales is now going this route.
I've also started to hear that garage sales are getting a lot more
competitive, with people showing up at folk's doors within hours of the
sale being published in the newspaper. I've heard complaints from antiques
professional who say that amateurs are outcompeting them. Again, I wonder
about the e-bay/Antiques Roadshow influence.
-Roy
Roy E. Plotnick
Professor
Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences
University of Illinois at Chicago
845 W. Taylor St.
Chicago, IL 60607
plotnick@...
office phone: 312-996-2111 fax: 312-413-2279
lab phone: 312-355-1342
web page: http://www.uic.edu/~plotnick/plotnick.htm
"The scientific celebrities, forgetting their molluscs and
glacial periods, gossiped about art, while devoting themselves to
oysters and ices with characteristic energy.." -Little Women, Louisa May
Alcott
Group: S-Trains Message: 19910 From: rodgers_carl Date: 6/10/2002
Subject: Re: Window material
Hey- whats wrong with the frosted window material sold by AMERICAN
FLYER PARTS DEALERS? Seems like we should be supporting them, rather
than always looking for other sources. They're gonna think we don't
like them. Or maybe they'll stop making parts because, we'ed rather
support the 3 RAILERS.

--- In S-Trains@y..., eddie rickenbacker <druvnik@y...> wrote:
> Hey gang- since we all know 3 railers (and i can ask
> myself), ask one if he has any K-Line 0-27
> streamliners. Each coach comes with a frosted set of
> window inserts , loose, as optional parts-some "panes
> have printed window blind/shade patterns, to give them
> a more real, random appearance. They trim nicely and
> spiff up SHS and Flyer coaches. Another source for
> frosted material is George Tebolt,from whom you can
> also get the mottled green window material (for
> shades) as used on pre-war tinplate.-John Marganski
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19911 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/10/2002
Subject: Re: Window material
What about Black frosted for nighttime running. I may have a scorce of the
frosted. Isthere a market for this materiel... Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19912 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/10/2002
Subject: Re: Window material
What about Black frosted for nighttime running. I may have a scorch of the
frosted. Isthere a market for this materiel... Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19913 From: hcopter52 Date: 6/10/2002
Subject: Re: Garage Sales & AF
This is the first year that I found any Flyer at a garage sale. Found
a huge box of track, RC switches,track clips and wire.Also found some
pre-war street lamps. Took the whole box for $25.00,half of what one
pair of RC switches cost me at the train show here in Illinois every
month. I only go to the garage sales that include a whole sub-
division of homes. Otherwise the train show is where I find most
flyer items. But you never can tell what you may find or when
lightening will strike. The fun is in the looking, John B.












--- In S-Trains@y..., "Tim Brown" <Timboy@a...> wrote:
> Bravo! Can anyone top that!
>
> -Tim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: wmhtreftsv@j...
> To: S-Trains@y...
> Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 11:33 AM
> Subject: [S-Trains] Garage Sales & AF
>
>
> Joe,
>
> Well, I'm one of those lucky ones who struck gold at a yard
sale. I saw
> the add in our local paper and it listed "trainboard". I was
there at 8
> am for the opening. (I'd been to a sale before that advertised
trains,
> but all were sold when I got there at 10.) This wasn't a home I
would
> expect to find old trains in. It was built about 15 years
ago. "Do you
> still have the trainboard?" "Yes." "Is it 2 or 3 rail?" "Two,
but it
> isn't HO." was the sullen response I received. My heart started
beating
> faster. We went to the basement and before me lay a 4 X 8
layout, a loop
> of track with a passing loop using 2 remote control switches. I
saw a
> train, several accessories, plasticville buildings, transformer,
and
> small, misc. "stuff". I asked how much they were asking and he
didn't
> know. I offered $100 and he said "let me check." His wife gave
approval
> and allowed me to leave it there for a week until I cleared a
space here.
> It was built to come apart in the middle and the whole board
then sets
> on another 4 X 8 sheet with legs. I paid them, came home and
started to
> look up what I just bought. Don't cry, but here's the list:
>
> 772 Checkerboard Water Tower
> 779 Oil drum loader
> 751 Log loader
> Rocket launcher car (no rocket)
> Talking Union Station
> Crossing Gate
> Sam the Semaphore
> a regular semaphore w/lock out eliminator
> 586F Wayside Station
> 760 Automatic Highway flasher
> Whistling Billboard
> Log unloading car with logs
> Roadbed under all track sections
>
> Now, keep it mind, this was not pristine equipment. I had to get
a repro
> forklift and man and more barrels for the loader, shack roof for
the
> water tower, crossing gate arms, clean the track and the
semaphore. (It
> wouldn't throw all the way to complete the circuit for the side
loop.)
> All was wired and set to go otherwise. Some dad had a lot of
> fun/headaches 45 years ago.
>
> I think I did well.
>
> I don't remember the engine and didn't have a set book to look it
up in
> at the time. Since then I have run several trains down the rails
and
> mixed the cars in with my others.
>
> I haven't had a lot of luck since then. This was probably my
one "big
> win." I haven't seen AF at any yard sales since, but keep
checking the
> adds in the weekly local paper and hoping.
>
> This is a good time for NOT bringing the wife. My experience is
she
> slows me down looking at clothes for grandkids. I can cover more
sales
> alone and feel freer buying something without those sighs coming
from
> over my shoulder. (I am a closet collector.)
>
> Other "lucky hits": Radio call in classifieds. Rare that anyone
calls
> one in for sale, but that is where I got my passenger set.
Another
> story, another time.
>
> eBay is chancey. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. Got a beautiful
405
> from someone who didn't have photo capabilities and lived north
of our
> border. But usually I get what I expected at the price I paid.
>
> Antique malls: I run into some AF, but usually antique dealers
think it
> is made of gold and price according to their opinion. Hmmm, I
did get a
> 370 for $5 once. Converted to a knuckle coupler on one end and
had a
> cold solder joint. It wasn't priced, I asked the shop keeper who
said
> "$5. My wife usually prices the stuff." I haven't seen train
stuff
> there ever since.
>
> Well, enough bragging. I will apologize for my outburst of the
day. You
> just hit the right button! (Thanks! I can only keep it in for
so long!)
>
> Good luck in your hunting! I know there is more AF out there, I
just
> have to beat you to it!
>
> Bill (the closet collector) ;-)
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
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> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19914 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 6/10/2002
Subject: Where do you buy RMC?
Greetings:
After all of the conversation on the lists, I decided to purchase a
copy of RMC after a 10 year hiatus. I recently went to California without
adequate reading material, figuring I would snag a copy out there.
I visited about 20 stores with magazine racks in the
Pleasanton/Dublin/San Francisco area.

The hobby shop in Dublin (which does not carry S) didn't carry it.
NorCalTT trains didn't carry it (nor any other current mags.)
I didn't visit any other hobby shops.

I found two stores with MR (Model Railroader) and Classic Toy Trains.
(Walgreen's and Albert's Sav-On Foods.)
I found one store with MR and Classic Trains. (Walden Books in Stonebridge
Mall.)
I found one store (Borders Books on Powel Street in San Francisco) with MR,
Classic Toy Trains, and Astronomy.

Four stores with MR. None with RMC. I finally snagged a copy in Des
Plaines Hobbies in CHICAGO! (Alright, Des Plaines, Ill but it is still part
of the Chicago metro.)

Sad,
Thorin


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wisconsin Electric - Wisconsin Gas is now We Energies.
Please use our new email extension "we-energies.com"
when addressing email to this sender,
e.g., john.doe@....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19915 From: Steve Blancard Date: 6/10/2002
Subject: Using grain of wheat bulbs
Have any of you used grain of wheat (gow) bulbs with AF equipment?

I have a white metal oil headlight casting that I want to use on a
Franklin loco with a grain of wheat bulb. All the bulbs I've been able
to find on the net are either 1.5 volts or 14-16 volts. I run a 30B
transformer that puts out a solid 18 volts. Are 18 volt gow bulbs
available? If not, can a 16 volt bulb be used without blowing or does a

resistor need to be put in the circuit? What size resistor?

I found a tech article on the net that showed a gow bulb placed into a
housing, then clear resin (epoxy) poured in from the lens end. The
resin filled the cavity up to the lens bezel, encasing the bulb and
formed a very nice looking "lens". The resulting "lens" is actually a
solid block of resin. It looked very nice, although the bulb can't be
replaced. I wonder how much heat a gow bulb generates and if it would
be a problem encased in the resin. Comments???

Thanks,
Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 19916 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/10/2002
Subject: TRYING TO SEE IF MY MAIL IS WORKING
Would someone please send me a response to this letter, as I've been having
trouble with getting and sending mail. I'm hoping I have now fixed the
problem. Thanks for your help..... Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19917 From: Lance McCold Date: 6/10/2002
Subject: Walthers Sale catalog S-scale building kit
Someone on this list suggested taking the Walthers sale catalog to a local hobby shop to ask them to order the Bar Mills S-scale building kit. He suggested doing so would encourage both the local hobby shop and Walthers to carry S-scale.

I tried it. My hobby shop clerk checked the Walthers on-line catalog. He told me that it was listed as not available. I wonder if this is a Walthers trick or a hobby shop trick. I wonder if anyone else has had a similar experience...

Lance McCold
Knoxville, Tennessee
Group: S-Trains Message: 19918 From: Don Thompson Date: 6/11/2002
Subject: Re: Walthers Sale catalog S-scale building kit
Go to:
http://www.walthers.com
and search for either the item number or Bar Mills and see if the item is in stock. They have one of the best web sites on the net.
Don

Lance McCold wrote:

> Someone on this list suggested taking the Walthers sale catalog to a local hobby shop to ask them to order the Bar Mills S-scale building kit. He suggested doing so would encourage both the local hobby shop and Walthers to carry S-scale.
>
> I tried it. My hobby shop clerk checked the Walthers on-line catalog. He told me that it was listed as not available. I wonder if this is a Walthers trick or a hobby shop trick. I wonder if anyone else has had a similar experience...
>
> Lance McCold
> Knoxville, Tennessee
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 19919 From: Paul Yorke Date: 6/11/2002
Subject: Re: Trying to clear the confusion
Your account is bouncing mails back.
I reset yahoo, but if your account bounces mail yahoo
will stoop attempting to send it. It does not have
anything to do with the new site, it's your mail
account that has a problem.
--- Howell S Jobbins <hsjobbins@...> wrote:
> Paul,
> This is another line to try to reach you about my
> not getting S-Lists
> indivdual emails, since playing with the westhost
> s-trains ---?????
> HSJOBBINS@... listed as Howell S Jobbins on
> Yahoo s-lists (4) I see
> mail when going to the site but I am listed to get
> mailings direct. Any
> idea what changed ???? Can't see where to make a
> correction ???
> I've been SteveJay at new site. Thanks for input,
HSJ-NASG


=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19920 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 6/11/2002
Subject: Re: Trying to clear the confusion
Paul, got this------- and responded to your direct with detail questions.
I will unsubscribe later today if the problem continues. I responded to
abnormal1 from the s-trains site as he is having the same problems.
HSJ-NASG.

On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 05:12:38 -0700 (PDT) Paul Yorke <s_trains@...>
writes:
> Your account is bouncing mails back.
> I reset yahoo, but if your account bounces mail yahoo
> will stoop attempting to send it. It does not have
> anything to do with the new site, it's your mail
> account that has a problem.
> --- Howell S Jobbins <hsjobbins@...> wrote:
> > Paul,
> > This is another line to try to reach you about my
> > not getting S-Lists
> > indivdual emails, since playing with the westhost
> > s-trains ---?????
> > HSJOBBINS@... listed as Howell S Jobbins on
> > Yahoo s-lists (4) I see
> > mail when going to the site but I am listed to get
> > mailings direct. Any
> > idea what changed ???? Can't see where to make a
> > correction ???
> > I've been SteveJay at new site. Thanks for input,
> HSJ-NASG
>
>
> =====
> Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
> Photography - Computers - Trains
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19921 From: crustyfour Date: 6/11/2002
Subject: Re: Using grain of wheat bulbs
Here's a link to the web page that describes making a headlight using
clear resin poured into the shell to make a lens. A neat idea so
long has heat isn't a problem. I e-mailed the guy and asked how it
was holding up.

http://www.wcr.co.uk/build15.htm

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 19922 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 6/11/2002
Subject: Building a Kit
Hi Everyone,
I want to start on a kit I bought from Banta, the kind with plaster, wood
and plastic parts. i've been trying to decide on the best products to put
this kit together with. What is best for putting the plaster walls together?
Then what is best for putting the wood and plastic together? Then attaching
the wood and plastic to the plaster cast? There was nothing in the directions
I received, only how to paint and clean up the parts to fit and sequence for
putting them together. This will be my first kit of this kind to put
together. Should be fun?! Thanks!

The Trainnut, Chris


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19923 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 6/11/2002
Subject: Re: Walthers
I would still order the product it's on sale until August. If you ordered it that would be the same as a rain check. Push, push, push.

John Griffin
Group: S-Trains Message: 19924 From: Don Thompson Date: 6/11/2002
Subject: Re: The Today Show & S Gauge?
Dear Friends,
We sent a display model to appear (hopefully) on the "Today Show" as
part of the "World's Greatest Hobby" promotion. I received this press
release from Fred Hamilton the Executive Director of MRIA (model
railroad industry assn., we are a member) related to the same topic.
Let see how it turns out.
Don



Hello MRIA members:

We'd like to let you know that on Thursday, June 13, a feature on model
railroading will be presented on the Today Show. Actor
Michael Gross will be in the studio with several layouts to discuss the
hobby with his host. The feature is scheduled for the 8:00
o'clock hour (7:00 AM Central). Here's the release we received:

TODAY SHOW PROMOTION
> The Rosen Group has arranged a pre-Fathers' Day appearance by WGH
> celebrity spokesperson Michael Gross on NBC's Today Show. The spot
> will include a portable large-scale layout from WGH sponsor Bachmann
> Industries as well as the HO layout shown in our Building Your First
Model
> Railroad videotape. Look for it on Thursday morning, June 13th.

Please let your friends and employees know.

Fred Hamilton, Executive Director, MRIA



-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 19925 From: knockbill Date: 6/11/2002
Subject: 342 tender
Hi
I have a 1947 342 switcher that I picked up recently....The engine is
in good condition, The tender has the wrong base for this model... It
should have SIT, & the tender body is the proper one,, however I need
a tender base which is made for a smoke unit,,,
The base I have is link coupler, & punched for a reverse unit
(1948-1953?)
Does any one have a sit 342 tender base they can part with?,, or can
any one use the one I have?? Mine is complete with trucks, the back
up light socket, & drawbar......
Any help or ideas,, are welcome...
Thanks in advance
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 19926 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 6/11/2002
Subject: Building kit
Lance McCold wrote:

> Someone on this list suggested taking the Walthers sale catalog to a
local hobby shop to ask them to order the Bar Mills S-scale building


When I first got that sale catalog, I sent an order for a kit, as well as other items. They sent the other stuff, said the kit was out of stock and sent me a refund for my payment.

jfred





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Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19927 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 6/11/2002
Subject: more viruses
I got hit with two more probabe viruses or worms tonight. One was titled
"A Powerful Tool" and the other, "SOS". both came with attachments. i
deleted the emails and the attachments without opening them, and no harm
was done. Watch out for them though. Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 19928 From: Linda & Ted Weiler Date: 6/11/2002
Subject: San Diego
I will be in the greater San Diego, CA area (Lakeside) on the 24th and 25th. Outside of the great display at Balboa Park, are there any other recommendations, dealers or ??

Thanks

Ted Weiler
tjweiler@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19929 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 6/12/2002
Subject: Re: Building kit
Fred,
I have had this happen to me a least 4 times. They ship what is on the
shelf, state out out stock on some items and about a week later a
separate check comes. Their BIG DEAL SALES seem to be an inventory value
adjustment, not a true sale for valued customers. HSJ-NASG

On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:11:52 -0700 (PDT) JFrederick Roberts
<jfred436@...> writes:
>
> Lance McCold wrote:
>
> > Someone on this list suggested taking the Walthers sale catalog to
> a
> local hobby shop to ask them to order the Bar Mills S-scale building
>
>
>
> When I first got that sale catalog, I sent an order for a kit, as
> well as other items. They sent the other stuff, said the kit was out
> of stock and sent me a refund for my payment.
>
> jfred
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19930 From: royhoffman Date: 6/12/2002
Subject: Re: Building kit
I sent a "what's going on?" email to Bar Mills Models.
Here's the response from them:

"It would be impossible to know what goes on elsewhere,
but here at the shop we can tell you two things:
1. It is not currently in stock BUT
2. We expect production to resume after delivery of
the appropriate wood shipment."

Roy

--- In S-Trains@y..., Howell S Jobbins <hsjobbins@j...> wrote:
> Fred,
> I have had this happen to me a least 4 times. They ship what is on
the
> shelf, state out out stock on some items and about a week later a
> separate check comes. Their BIG DEAL SALES seem to be an inventory
value
> adjustment, not a true sale for valued customers. HSJ-NASG
>
> On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:11:52 -0700 (PDT) JFrederick Roberts
> <jfred436@y...> writes:
> >
> > Lance McCold wrote:
> >
> > > Someone on this list suggested taking the Walthers sale catalog
to
> > a
> > local hobby shop to ask them to order the Bar Mills S-scale
building
> >
> >
> >
> > When I first got that sale catalog, I sent an order for a kit, as
> > well as other items. They sent the other stuff, said the kit was
out
> > of stock and sent me a refund for my payment.
> >
> > jfred
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
Group: S-Trains Message: 19931 From: crustyfour Date: 6/12/2002
Subject: LEDs for Franklin headlight ?
A couple days ago I asked about using an grain of wheat bulb in my
Franklin headlight project. Several folks gave some good advice
including a preference for using an LED.

I like the idea of much longer life and reduced current draw of an
LED vs. GOW a bulb. So here's what I'm considering:

I will be using a white metal oil headlight box casting instead of
the original plastic one. I'd like to used a diffused ambler LED to
replicate the output of a real coal oil headlight. I will put the
LED into the headlight casting from the bottom, then fill the cavity
with clear resin up to the lens bezel. This will encase the LED
(thus the appeal of very long LED life) and form a nice looking lens
when cured.

I need some advice on what type of LED, resistor and diode to use in
order for it to work properly on 12-18v AF track power.

I looked at Paul Yorke's FAQ page on using LEDs. It gives a basic
diagram but no specifics on type of LED to use.

Any/all suggestions welcome!

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 19932 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 6/12/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1476
DATE NAILS

It has been my experience that the square head nails are from railroad
ties and the round head nails are from telephone / power poles. Any
comments?

Jerry 77-11644

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19933 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 6/12/2002
Subject: 343 PIC
I'm putting my 343 back together, finally. I've had it torn apart so long that I've forgotten how the side rods go. On top of that I can't find my Greenberg's to find how they look.

Can someone scan a photo and post to the picture board?

Thanks,
John Griffin
Group: S-Trains Message: 19934 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 6/12/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1476
Jerry, I have a date nail collection from the Lehigh Valley and the Lehigh
and New England and both are round head nails. Not all RR used these nails.
Reading and NJC did not. Don't know about the Lehigh and Hudson River or
PRR for that matter.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald R Dobbs [mailto:grdobbs@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 11:42 AM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1476




DATE NAILS

It has been my experience that the square head nails
are from railroad
ties and the round head nails are from telephone / power poles. Any
comments?

Jerry 77-11644

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
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+

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 19935 From: af21115 Date: 6/12/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1476
I have Date Nails from both the PRR and Reading, so both those roads
did use them. I got mine while walking the line in Paxinos, PA. Both
lines pass through there. Today sadly, the old PRR is a dead branch.
The old Reading line is still used but not much.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19936 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 6/12/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1476
Lots of reading track around A-Town. Never saw any. Thanks for the heads
up.
Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: af21115 [mailto:Dave0616@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 2:33 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Digest Number 1476


I have Date Nails from both the PRR and Reading, so both those roads
did use them. I got mine while walking the line in Paxinos, PA. Both
lines pass through there. Today sadly, the old PRR is a dead branch.
The old Reading line is still used but not much.


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+

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 19937 From: David Dewey Date: 6/12/2002
Subject: Date Nails
Gerald,
Well, all the date nails out here on the SP were round headed!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19938 From: TED R LARSON Date: 6/12/2002
Subject: ABS adhesive
> >>>>>>> I thought ABS was more resistant to paints and chemicals
> than styrene. I would not have anticipated a problem stripping an SHS
car.
> Can anyone shed some light on the resistance to chemicals for ABS vs
> styrene?<<<<<<<<<<

Regarding an adhesive for ABS, in the October 2001 NASG Dispatch under
"S-Tips", two NASG members are quoted stating that "Faller Super Expert
Plastic Cement" is "far and away the best".

Ted Larson
What is greater than God, More evil than the devil,
The poor have it, The rich need it, And if you eat it,
you'll die?
Group: S-Trains Message: 19939 From: Alan Evans Date: 6/12/2002
Subject: For Sale: CN 5-car Set
List:
Have 5-car Canadian National Passenger Car set. Test run only. New
in 1995. $ 270 plus UPS & insurance.
Hi rail -- can convert to scale

Contact me off line if interested.

Alan Evans - the Ohio guy
Group: S-Trains Message: 19940 From: IronHorse Date: 6/12/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1476
I have a bunch of date nails I removed from RR ties. All of them are round.
Roger Hinds

Gerald R Dobbs wrote:

> DATE NAILS
>
> It has been my experience that the square head nails are from railroad
> ties and the round head nails are from telephone / power poles. Any
> comments?
>
> Jerry 77-11644
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
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> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
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>
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19941 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1484
DATE NAILS

Thanks for all the input. Dave Hess reports that he has found only one
square nail ( 1910 ) the others are round. From the reports, the
square nails are the real old ones? OR square nails may be just a nail
from a different manufacture?

Jerry Dobbs

________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19942 From: royhoffman Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Re: The Today Show & S Gauge?
The Today show is now history. I'm at work and I taped the show.
However, I'm curious.
Did anyone see it live and did they do the WGH segment?

Roy

--- In S-Trains@y..., Don Thompson <robin@s...> wrote:
> Dear Friends,
> We sent a display model to appear (hopefully) on the "Today
Show" as
> part of the "World's Greatest Hobby" promotion. I received this
press
> release from Fred Hamilton the Executive Director of MRIA (model
> railroad industry assn., we are a member) related to the same topic.
> Let see how it turns out.
> Don
>
>
>
> Hello MRIA members:
>
> We'd like to let you know that on Thursday, June 13, a feature on
model
> railroading will be presented on the Today Show. Actor
> Michael Gross will be in the studio with several layouts to discuss
the
> hobby with his host. The feature is scheduled for the 8:00
> o'clock hour (7:00 AM Central). Here's the release we received:
>
> TODAY SHOW PROMOTION
> > The Rosen Group has arranged a pre-Fathers' Day appearance by WGH
> > celebrity spokesperson Michael Gross on NBC's Today Show. The spot
> > will include a portable large-scale layout from WGH sponsor
Bachmann
> > Industries as well as the HO layout shown in our Building Your
First
> Model
> > Railroad videotape. Look for it on Thursday morning, June 13th.
>
> Please let your friends and employees know.
>
> Fred Hamilton, Executive Director, MRIA
>
>
>
> -- -- Don Thompson
> S Helper Service Inc.
> http://www.showcaseline.com
> 1.800.465.0303
> New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
> http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 19943 From: robert allen conner Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Re: The Today Show & S Gauge?
Yes .... they did it all...They talked about getting to the hobby for under
100.00....Showed a HO layout for under 500.00 But the best was the "G"
layout with sound...etc...they basically only covered the two items...they
did show SANTA FE Diesels in all scales, including "S" but said nothing
about them...Bob Conner
----- Original Message -----
From: "royhoffman" <rhoffman@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 9:37 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: The Today Show & S Gauge?


> The Today show is now history. I'm at work and I taped the show.
> However, I'm curious.
> Did anyone see it live and did they do the WGH segment?
>
> Roy
>
> --- In S-Trains@y..., Don Thompson <robin@s...> wrote:
> > Dear Friends,
> > We sent a display model to appear (hopefully) on the "Today
> Show" as
> > part of the "World's Greatest Hobby" promotion. I received this
> press
> > release from Fred Hamilton the Executive Director of MRIA (model
> > railroad industry assn., we are a member) related to the same topic.
> > Let see how it turns out.
> > Don
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello MRIA members:
> >
> > We'd like to let you know that on Thursday, June 13, a feature on
> model
> > railroading will be presented on the Today Show. Actor
> > Michael Gross will be in the studio with several layouts to discuss
> the
> > hobby with his host. The feature is scheduled for the 8:00
> > o'clock hour (7:00 AM Central). Here's the release we received:
> >
> > TODAY SHOW PROMOTION
> > > The Rosen Group has arranged a pre-Fathers' Day appearance by WGH
> > > celebrity spokesperson Michael Gross on NBC's Today Show. The spot
> > > will include a portable large-scale layout from WGH sponsor
> Bachmann
> > > Industries as well as the HO layout shown in our Building Your
> First
> > Model
> > > Railroad videotape. Look for it on Thursday morning, June 13th.
> >
> > Please let your friends and employees know.
> >
> > Fred Hamilton, Executive Director, MRIA
> >
> >
> >
> > -- -- Don Thompson
> > S Helper Service Inc.
> > http://www.showcaseline.com
> > 1.800.465.0303
> > New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
> > http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 19944 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Today Show
>The Today show is now history. I'm at work and I taped the show.
However, I'm curious.
Did anyone see it live and did they do the WGH segment?

Roy<

I missed most of it, but yes they did have the WGH segment at about 9:45 EDT, just ahead of a cooking segment. As I said, I almost missed it, got to see some "G" and something else in the background so could tell they had something smaller that I had missed.

jfred






---------------------------------
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19945 From: royhoffman Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Re: Today Show
Thanks,

Unfortunately those Today Show interviews aren't in-depth but are
glorified sound bites.

Roy

--- In S-Trains@y..., JFrederick Roberts <jfred436@y...> wrote:
>
> >The Today show is now history. I'm at work and I taped the show.
> However, I'm curious.
> Did anyone see it live and did they do the WGH segment?
>
> Roy<
>
> I missed most of it, but yes they did have the WGH segment at about
9:45 EDT, just ahead of a cooking segment. As I said, I almost missed
it, got to see some "G" and something else in the background so could
tell they had something smaller that I had missed.
>
> jfred
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19946 From: IronHorse Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1484
I remember reading an item on date nails years ago. According to that message
date nails were used for 80 years. Starting around 1880 and ending 1960. I am guessing the
dates but I know they are close.

Roger Hinds

Gerald R Dobbs wrote:

> DATE NAILS
>
> Thanks for all the input. Dave Hess reports that he has found only one
> square nail ( 1910 ) the others are round. From the reports, the
> square nails are the real old ones? OR square nails may be just a nail
> from a different manufacture?
>
> Jerry Dobbs
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19947 From: IronHorse Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Re: Today Show
Did they mention who the original host was? That must have been one of the longest running
shows in TV history. 40 + years.
SO, guy"S" who knows who the original host was?
Who was the most famous frequent guest on the show?

comments ???

Roger Hinds

PS: Sorry for the "S"pam. But "S"ince "S"omeone brought up the subject.......
Group: S-Trains Message: 19948 From: royhoffman Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Re: Today Show
Hi Roger,

I'm dating myself, but it was Dave Garroway
later joined by J. Fred Muggs

Roy

--- In S-Trains@y..., IronHorse <cofa@t...> wrote:
> Did they mention who the original host was? That must have been
one of the longest running
> shows in TV history. 40 + years.
> SO, guy"S" who knows who the original host was?
> Who was the most famous frequent guest on the show?
>
> comments ???
>
> Roger Hinds
>
> PS: Sorry for the "S"pam. But "S"ince "S"omeone brought up
the subject.......
Group: S-Trains Message: 19949 From: SCrabTiger@aol.com Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Idaho
We are going to be in Idaho in several weeks and would like to know if there
are any American Flyer or S gauge retailers to visit. We, also, love to ride
old trains. Are thre in the area?
Thanks
Group: S-Trains Message: 19950 From: Wayne and Alice Beachy Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Web page updates
Hi Everyone,

I have updated several web pages you may be interested in.

(1) Photos of the most recent train show in Manassas attended by the W&OD Division. Go to http://sgauge.homestead.com/acsgindex.html and click on the W&OD button and then on the shows button.

(2) Photos of my new 5' X 9' portable layout on my own pages http://waynestrains.homestead.com/index.html and then click on S gauge trains button and then the Portable layout button.

(3) Photos of some of Jerry Poniatowski's work on the RapidRail page. Jerry was the winner of the best in show at last year's NASG convention. Jerry will do custom painting for other S gaugers. Also, he has C&O decals for the BL2 and other passenger cars he will sell or decorate for you. Check http://rapidrail.homestead.com/welcome/html and click on the button for Jerry's photos. I will be posting more photos for him over the next few days so check back later, also.

Wayne Beachy
Atlantic Coast S Gaugers
Virginia Central Division.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19951 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: All-Aboard set packing
Greetings all,

I had this thought when I was moving my Pioneer 600 set,

How did flyer originally pack the engine and cars in the box? I currently
have the engine and cars out of the box because I just do not want to
"toss" the in.

Thanks,

Jeff
Group: S-Trains Message: 19952 From: nasglibrary Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Date Nails
Gerald R Dobbs wrote:

"It has been my experience that the square head nails are fromrailroad
ties and the round head nails are from telephone / power poles. Any
comments?"

I can only comment on the Milwaukee Road date nails I recently sold on
Ebay. They were round, from the '20s and '30s. Seven were copper, and
three were steel.

Dick Karnes
Group: S-Trains Message: 19953 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: alaska train people
Do we have anyone on the list from Alaska? My family and the VW bus are
leaving Saturday for the great white north. I'd love to meet up with some
Flyer people in Alaska or British Columbia.

Jacques
Group: S-Trains Message: 19954 From: IronHorse Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Re: Today Show
Excellent Roy;
You are the first person to get both answers correct.
I wonder how many of you remembers who J. Fred Muggs is?
What male tenor got his start on the show?

Roger

royhoffman wrote:

> Hi Roger,
>
> I'm dating myself, but it was Dave Garroway
> later joined by J. Fred Muggs
>
> Roy
>
> --- In S-Trains@y..., IronHorse <cofa@t...> wrote:
> > Did they mention who the original host was? That must have been
> one of the longest running
> > shows in TV history. 40 + years.
> > SO, guy"S" who knows who the original host was?
> > Who was the most famous frequent guest on the show?
> >
> > comments ???
> >
> > Roger Hinds
> >
> > PS: Sorry for the "S"pam. But "S"ince "S"omeone brought up
> the subject.......
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 19955 From: IronHorse Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Re: Today Show
His theme song was a musical tune. No lyrics used. I never
new the name of it.
Although I still remember the tune.

Roger Hinds

Sam & Peggy Pellegrino wrote:

>
>
>
>
> John Garoway was the first host. What was his theme song?
>
> Sentimental Journey
> >From: IronHorse
> >To: JFrederick Roberts
> >CC: s-trains@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Today Show
> >Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 11:47:33 -0400
> >
> >Did they mention who the original host was? That must
> have been one of the longest running
> >shows in TV history. 40 + years.
> > SO, guy"S" who knows who the original host was?
> >Who was the most famous frequent guest on the show?
> >
> >comments ???
> >
> >Roger Hinds
> >
> >PS: Sorry for the "S"pam. But "S"ince "S"omeone brought
> up the subject.......
> >
> >
> >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>
> >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19956 From: joe messinger Date: 6/13/2002
Subject: Today Show
Anyone remember the co-host during the early years of the Today show? Hint:
J.L..


_________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19957 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Today Show trivia / WGH observation
Greetings,

Someone isn't watching the Today Show on a daily basis. The show
celebrated its' 50th anniversary this year. (A little more specific than
40+ years.) I taped it. It's here, on one of these unmarked tapes.
Hmmm, no, that's ER, no, that's the last episode of 3rd Rock, well, it's
here somewhere. Maybe the closet?

Looking at the first layout they showed, it seemed large for HO. It
looked like the new S helper track with gray roadbed. First I thought I
saw the glint of a black 3rd rail, but later they had a higher shot and I
saw it was 2 rail. The next thought was the train seemed a little large
for the buildings. Anyone else get similar impressions?

Thanks,

Bill

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19958 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Today Show trivia / WGH observation
Greetings,

Someone isn't watching the Today Show on a daily basis. The show
celebrated its' 50th anniversary this year. (A little more specific than
40+ years.) I taped it. It's here, on one of these unmarked tapes.
Hmmm, no, that's ER, no, that's the last episode of 3rd Rock, well, it's
here somewhere. Maybe the closet?

Looking at the first layout they showed, it seemed large for HO. It
looked like the new S helper track with gray roadbed. First I thought I
saw the glint of a black 3rd rail, but later they had a higher shot and I
saw it was 2 rail. The next thought was the train seemed a little large
for the buildings. Anyone else get similar impressions?

Thanks,

Bill

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19959 From: joe messinger Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Today/J.L.
Buzzzz! Not Julius LaRosa as co-host on the Today show. LaRosa was on the
Arthur Godfrey Show.


_________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19960 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Fw: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1476
David Mylander sent me this information on date nails, I am passing it
along to the group.

Jerry Dobbs

--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "o.d. mylander" <odmylander@...>
To: Gerald R Dobbs <grdobbs@...>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 08:25:05 -0700
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1476
Message-ID: <a05010402b92e67354969@[134.71.25.234]>
References: <20020612.101921.-881125.0.grdobbs@...>

Hi

Date nails were used by RR for quality control, to see how long ties
would last in any give area, Sometimes the shape has something to
do with the wood, such as Santa Fe, they used Square nails or
diamond nails for untreated ties, Round nails for treated ones,
pentagon nails for previously used ties, Even the US forrest service
used nails in 1909-1911 to mark trees that could be cut down,
Other companies used nails from companies that made them out of
steel, copper, aluminum, cast iron, etc, in all sorts of shapes,
There are even clubs devoted to collecting nails the Texas Date
Nail Collectors Association ,
David Mylander


________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19961 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: TODAY SHOW & TRAINS
Thank you Don Thompson of S Helper Service
for the heads up on the train display on
the Today Show. Of course if you blinked
during the last 15 minutes of the 3 hour show
you may have missed it. Michael Gross
described the "World's Greatest Hobby"
in very few words. He opened with the
fact that these are not your father's
Lionel or American Flyer trains. The
camera scanned 6 different scale
Sante Fe F3 engines but no mention was
made in the 4 minutes of any scale.

Mr Gross said you could learn more at:
http://www.greatesthobby.com

A layout obviously "HO" was shown that
could be built with buildings for under
$500 and then the camera went to a large
layout with two levels of what Michael
called museum quality trains. This was
obviously a "G" gauge garden railroad.

I captured it on video but it is not
worth much concerning promoting
S scale.

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn
Group: S-Trains Message: 19962 From: royhoffman Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Re: TODAY SHOW & TRAINS
I'll answer Glenn's post so we can stay on trains, but J. L. was
Jack Lescoulie (I think that's close to the spelling).
Anyway, I looked at the tape when I got home and was able to freeze
frame it when they scanned the SF engines. It looked like a lineup of
G, O, S, HO, N and Z although they didn't mention the scales.
I agree with Glenn's assessment. The WGH was hardly mentioned except
for the website address.

I've noticed mostly negative reaction to the WGH from the S folks,
both scale and highrail. We've been doing our best to be a part of it
and attract folks to S as well as model railroading, but we are in
danger of being overwhelmed by the other scales. I wish it could be
different, but our involvement will probably die due to lack of
interest.

Roy

--- In S-Trains@y..., Glenn Ritter <gartrain@n...> wrote:
> Thank you Don Thompson of S Helper Service
> for the heads up on the train display on
> the Today Show. Of course if you blinked
> during the last 15 minutes of the 3 hour show
> you may have missed it. Michael Gross
> described the "World's Greatest Hobby"
> in very few words. He opened with the
> fact that these are not your father's
> Lionel or American Flyer trains. The
> camera scanned 6 different scale
> Sante Fe F3 engines but no mention was
> made in the 4 minutes of any scale.
>
> Mr Gross said you could learn more at:
> http://www.greatesthobby.com
>
> A layout obviously "HO" was shown that
> could be built with buildings for under
> $500 and then the camera went to a large
> layout with two levels of what Michael
> called museum quality trains. This was
> obviously a "G" gauge garden railroad.
>
> I captured it on video but it is not
> worth much concerning promoting
> S scale.
>
> Staying on the NPSG branchline
> of NASG track, Glenn
Group: S-Trains Message: 19963 From: joe messinger Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: J.L.
Roy got it right. Jack Lescoli was the co-host/anchor on the Today show.
He was a conductor for the B&O before joining the show. I don't know! Just
trying to keep this train related. . .


_________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 19964 From: nasglibrary Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Today Show
From: "joe messinger" <jmessinger@...>
Subject: Today Show

Anyone remember the co-host during the early years of the Today show?
Hint:
J.L..

Yes -- Jack Lescoulie (spelling?).

Dick Karnes
Group: S-Trains Message: 19965 From: Gary Chidester Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: S-Helper......WOW!
I know a lot of you won't care and the rest already know, but I bought my
first rolling stock that wasn't American Flyer or Flyonel. I bought and
S-Helper UP boxcar and a three-bay hopper. I was amazed at the detail and
quality. If it weren't for the sentimental aspect of American Flyer I think
I would be4 running all S-Helper! Now I need to save my money for the UP
F-3's!

I was blown away by the two cars I bought and now that I will be looking at
more non-Flyer I was wondering a couple of things that I'm sure many of you
could answer....

How does American Models compare?

I am running Flyer transformers and AC, Can I run the Sound features that
are mentioned in the S-Helper?

Thanks,

gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 19966 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: TODAY SHOW
Another was Billie Bartie But you couldn'/t see him:)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19967 From: David Dewey Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Re: S-Helper......WOW!
Gary,
You betcha! The sounds are soooo coool too, just what ACG would have
done, I think! Also, you can turn lights on & off (like the mars light!) and
you can leave the throttle on and coast to a stop-- so all the car lights
stay lit! Then, when you push the "start" button, you hear the brakes
release, the motor whines up and voila! she eases out of the station! TOO
COOL! ( But I'm still gonna run my AF!)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19968 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Wanted: mail order hobby shop
Greetings
Do you gents and ladies know of a hobby shop where I could:

1. E-mail in an order.
2. Receive a bill, which includes a shipping/handling charge. (The
shop's profit is HERE.)
3. I write a check and mail it off.
4. The stuff comes.

I just can't seem to sit down to write the letter that needs to go with the
check. But I will wrap checks in printed e-mails. (I currently need a book
and some stuff from BTS and Westerfield but am too lazy to write the
letters.)

Oh - I don't use credit cards for train purchases so that (seemingly
obvious) avenue is closed.

Thorin


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Please use our new email extension "we-energies.com"
when addressing email to this sender,
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19969 From: Neil Trump Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Circus set on Ebay
To all.

If anyone on the list is bidding on ebay item # 1740990165 , I believe the engine/tender is an old restoration and not an original.

The tell tale signs on the engine are the valve gear rivet has been painted over, not a factory spec. and also it is missing the painted rings around the front headlight.

I have informed the seller, who will probably be upset to hear this news, but it just seems fair to let the less informed know if they are considering buying the set.

Regards,

Neil T.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19970 From: eric reis Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Re: Wanted: mail order hobby shop
If you want SHS and American models stuff and maybe some others try

EG/RA model railroad division
in Bristol, Wisconsin

at

egramrd@...

Bill has excellent prices and does exactly what you want. I email him with a request, he emails me back a quote, I mail a check (he dosn't take credit cards), the stuff shows up. If there is a delay, he keeps me informed.

I recommend him highly.

eric reis
Kenmore, Wa.
(ok 94 degrees in Seattle is a bit much)



On Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:41:31 -0500 "Marty.Thorin" <thorin.marty@...> wrote:

Greetings
Do you gents and ladies know of a hobby shop where I could:

1. E-mail in an order.
2. Receive a bill, which includes a shipping/handling charge. (The
shop's profit is HERE.)
3. I write a check and mail it off.
4. The stuff comes.

I just can't seem to sit down to write the letter that needs to go with the
check. But I will wrap checks in printed e-mails. (I currently need a book
and some stuff from BTS and Westerfield but am too lazy to write the
letters.)

Oh - I don't use credit cards for train purchases so that (seemingly
obvious) avenue is closed.

Thorin


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wisconsin Electric - Wisconsin Gas is now We Energies.
Please use our new email extension "we-energies.com"
when addressing email to this sender,
e.g., john.doe@....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Group: S-Trains Message: 19971 From: Steve Jones Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Change of eMail address
S-Trains members,

I am in the process of changing ISPs. Unfortunately, that means my
personal
eMail address (sejones@...) will go away in the near future.
Please update your records to send all eMail to sejones@....
Thank You.

Steve

The S4 Group, Inc. specializes in providing
Software Services and System Solutions for the Enterprise.

Steven E. Jones Office: (414) 332 0493
Managing Partner Mobile: (414) 828 0166
The S4 Group, Inc. http://www.thes4group.com
6203 N. Bay Ridge Ave. sejones@...
Whitefish Bay, WI 53217
Group: S-Trains Message: 19972 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Train paintings and Today show original host.
As some of you might know my other hobby is amateur astronomy.
Last evening (Thursday) I took my granddaughter to the Berks County
Amateur Astronomical Society meeting at the Reading, PA museum. In the
hallway going back to the auditorium when our monthly meeting is held
there were three paintings of Reading Railroad vignettes by an artist by
the name of John Dusko. I have never heard of him before, but his
paintings were outstanding.
One of the scenes was of a T1 under construction in the Reading
Locomotive Shop. I wished that my dad, who spent many years working
there, could have seen the painting. It was a beautiful representation
of a T1 being built. The second showed a G1sa and L10 under the
trainshed at the Outer Station. Both locomotives were coming from
Lebanon or Harrisburg and heeding wither toward Pottsville or
Allentown. One of them might have been the Reading varnish run called
the "Queen of the Valley." This train ran between Harrisburg and Jersey
City where one could take a ferry ride to Manhattan. The third was a
picture of a camelback numbered 406 crossing Penn Street in Reading.
The street was not paved but had trolley lines.
They were three very good paintings of scenes from the Reading.
And, Roger, the original host of the Today show was Dave Garroway.
When I was in junior high school in 1952 Channel 3 in Philadelphia
canned my favorite comedian, Ernie Kovaxs, to run the Today show . I
never forgave NBC for being instrumental in getting Ernie off the air.
I have never watched the show except for the anniversary of the
Doolittle mission on Tokyo about 10 years ago when they interviewed
General Doolittle.
W.
Thomas Boussum

"If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch you must begin by
creating the universe." Carl Sagan in "Cosmos."




>Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 11:47:33 -0400
> From: IronHorse <cofa@...>
>Subject: Re: Today Show

>Did they mention who the original host was? That must have been one of
the longest running
s>hows in TV history. 40 + years.
> SO, guy"S" who knows who the original host was?
>Who was the most famous frequent guest on the show?

>comments ???

>Roger Hinds

>PS: Sorry for the "S"pam. But "S"ince "S"omeone brought up the
subject.......
Group: S-Trains Message: 19973 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, June 16, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19974 From: John Foley Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: NASG Steel Structure
Hi Folks
Well I now have the NASG's Armco Steel Structure kit in stock.
I spent today on putting the kits & instructions in plastic bags and
stapling label cards to them. Then I packed a bunch of them for mailing.
To the folks who ordered already, I will have your kits in the mail by
Tuesday. For those that are thinking of ordering any you can see what
they look like at www.nasg.org
The kit itself is a nice little building and easy to put together
and IS S GAUGE.
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 19975 From: Wayne and Alice Beachy Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Opps
Hi All,

I made a typo in one of the urls I sent yesterday. The URL to see Jerry's work is http://rapidrail.homestead.com/welcome.html then press on the button for Jerry page.

Wayne Beachy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19976 From: bassflyer Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Re: S-Helper......WOW!
Gary wrote....***(((I bought my first rolling stock that wasn't
American Flyer or Flyonel. I bought a S-Helper UP boxcar and a three-
bay hopper.-----I was blown away by the two cars----How does American
Models compare?)))***

I only have three SHS products,.. three beer reefers, and I
think they are great!!
I also have an American Models Southern Pacific wooden caboose,
and I am very pleased with it!! Looks great with the reefers!!
I am also using the S-Helper Service trucks/couplers on On30
rolling stock and will soon use them on some old Flyer with broken
trucks.
Also saving my pennies for a SHS F-3 set-up!!

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19977 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: 336 tender
Anyone have any idea what a 336 tender in e cond be worth? Thank You

If I sent out any mail to anyone one this list that made no sense at all
I'm sorry. I was hospitalized about 3 hrs after sending out some pretty
strange letter. Nothing offensive, just goofy. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19978 From: Rick Evans Date: 6/14/2002
Subject: Fw: Download billboard ads for your layout
Hi all,...
Found this over at the Toy-Train site.
Free billboard artwork you can
print & insert in a Lionel or Walthers billboard.

http://www.wyomingyard.com/billboards/


Rick.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19979 From: Rick Evans Date: 6/15/2002
Subject: SHS trucks on Flyer.
Yesterday I put a pair of SHS trucks/couplers on a AF 942 Seaboard boxcar and they
work and look great! I have a few other pieces of AF rolling stock that have shot trucks,...
journals that had been epoxied on by their previous owner, and were no longer
in place when I got 'em! I'm thinkin' that this 942 hasn't rolled down a track since the '60's!!
Anyway,...a fast, easy fix and the 942 is back in service!


Rick.

PS....My spell check says "EPOXIED" isn't in the dictionary!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19980 From: Paul Yorke Date: 6/16/2002
Subject: Links on New site - your chance to help
I just moved about 300 links to the new site.
If you have a site or a favorite site I sure could use
your help (not money!). Please log onto the new site
at http://s-trains.westhost.com . Visit the list of
web links, they are sorted by category. If you would
like you site listed in more than one category, feel
free to submit it. If you get any error messages just
ignore them, more often than not the data gets
submitted. Your links will not get added to the
database until I approve them so please allow 48 hours
for me to get online and approve them.
I am hoping this will be a much better way of keeping
all the links up to date.

I am open to adding categories, if you think I missed
one.

I am also looking into a better way of displaying the
actual links.

=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19981 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 6/16/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, June 16, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 19982 From: Bill Lane Date: 6/16/2002
Subject: Photo track
Hi All,

I had many nice emails commenting on my S Scale H30a. Thanks to all of you.
I thought I would share with you my S Scale photo track that made it
possible. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/PhotoTrack.jpg I made a
hand laid single track 3 ' long. I used tie plates, splicer bars and almost
800 spikes in that length. The one side is a continuous scene. The other is
3 small scenes about 1' long. It is elevated 4 inches to look like an
embankment because I like the photo view that is looking slightly upward to
the car. http://www.pennsysmodels.com/px29side-2_small.jpg

Thanks
Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 19983 From: rxman46321 Date: 6/16/2002
Subject: 343 pictures
Thanks to all that took the time forward photos of a 343 for me.
This group shares their expertise and time unselfishly.

Have post a photo to S-Trains to show how it turned out.

It runs DCC with LED's front and back for lights.

John Griffin
Group: S-Trains Message: 19984 From: nhterpsfan Date: 6/16/2002
Subject: Any S Cadrail users ?
I asked this question in the Cadrail users group, but I thought
someone here might also be able to help. Here's the question...

I'm a new user of Cadrail 7.1 and have a question for you more
experienced folks.

I am not sure if I don't understand the concept of 'stationing'
or if there is a problem in the s_gilber.crw definition for a
section of straight track. From reading the on-line documentation,
it sounds to me like 'station' just refers to the length along
the run of a path. But in the above file, a section of
straight track is defined with stationing of 9.1 inches. A
section of S straight track is 10". If I use the work sheet option,
it knows the length is 10". So can someone explain if this is
just a problem with the definition, or is there something basic
I don't understand here about stationing. I want to add more
definitions for other s section types, so I'd like to understand
better.

Thanks in advance for your help,

Bill Hilliard
Group: S-Trains Message: 19985 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 6/16/2002
Subject: UP 4-6-6-4 Challenger #3985 tour.
Hi Gang,

I just uploaded 3 pictures of this behemoth as it rested in yards at Clinton,
Iowa on June 11. It presently is on excursion near Chicago returning past
this way next week for another excursion into St. Paul, MN. then returning to
Cheyenne. The tender looks like the Flyer 4-8-4 tender but this "real" one
is much bigger I'm sure. Thank goodness for digital pics. I took 20+
digital pictures on what was a perfect evening.

John R
Group: S-Trains Message: 19986 From: Clifford Manning Date: 6/16/2002
Subject: trucks
Since the trucks from SHS are build different from American Flyer
trucks, what do you need to do to mount them? Does anyone have a
diagram or picture of the conversion and the attachment of the coupler.
I am interested in hi rail conversions.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19987 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 6/17/2002
Subject: Using SHS trucks
Since the trucks from SHS are build different from American Flyer
trucks, what do you need to do to mount them? Does anyone have a
diagram or picture of the conversion and the attachment of the coupler.
I am interested in hi rail conversions.

My question too. I've used SHS on PRS cars, but for Flyer do you need an Ace floor or perhaps the bolsters? It would seem like the Flyer mounting point would be too far back from the car end. Or, does that just make for closer coupled cars?

jfred



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19988 From: Hannon Date: 6/17/2002
Subject: S-Gauge Reference Manual Update Available
(NOTE: If you didn't receive a copy of this notice directly,
please re-register your manual at http://www.trainrefs.com
with your current e-mail address. Especially true for
previous customers of "home.com" and "mediaone.net" ).


An update to the A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge Reference Manual is available at:

http://www.trainrefs.com

Click on the A.C. Gilbert manual cover on the Home page; then,
Click on the "Updates" button on the tracks to the left; then,
Click on one of the "Title"s in the table.


These updates include new data on the following item(s):

1. A previously undocumented PulMor version of the
A.C. Gilbert DC Armature.

We recommend the following minimum software / versions
for reliable access to this update:

1. Internet Explorer 5.0
2 Adobe Acrobat Reader 4.0 or 5.0

Problems? Drop us a line at support@....

Bob & Patrick Hannon
Group: S-Trains Message: 19989 From: Paul Yorke Date: 6/17/2002
Subject: old links plus trivia
Here are two links that the list pioneers (and newbees) might find
interesting.

newsgroup Archives (rec.models.railroad)
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=american+flyer&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&selm=01bc4d17%2485ca1050%2404294dc6%40turkeyknob&rnum=2

old webpages
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www2.newriver.net/flyeropolis/

unrelated trivia............
On chat I was asked when the list started. Well the first automated
version started about Jan of 1997, about 5 1/2 years ago. Prior to that
for about a year, I did the list manually.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19990 From: Rick Evans Date: 6/17/2002
Subject: SHS Trucks on Flyer....
I just used, I believe,... 3/4" 4-40 machine screws with 4-40 "aircraft" locking nuts. If those
numbers sound weird,..I'll re-check them!! :-)
I also used three #6 washers (per truck) as spacers, between the truck/coupler, and the bottom of
the AF frame. And yes,....it makes for close coupling!!
I am hoping to get a pic of my 942 and post it at the S-trains site.


Rick.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 19991 From: Paul Yorke Date: 6/17/2002
Subject: Keeps getting better
I have added Forums to the new site.
http://S-Trains.westhost.com

Your messages are available to others as soon as you post them.

Please give it a test drive.

You need to be a registered user to participate. If you have cookies
turned on, it will recognize you automatically. Also if you forget your
password, I and only reset it for you, I can't see your current
passwords.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19992 From: Ted Larson Date: 6/18/2002
Subject: Re: 1/64 or 1/61 Scale
In answer to the question about 1/61 scale vehicles, I have found that
most (not all) vehicles "look right" for S scale if their deviation
from true S scale is within 1/61 to 1/67 scale. Outside that, they
might still be acceptable "stand-ins", but they just don't look quite
right, the size discrepancy is just too much for my eyes.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19993 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 6/18/2002
Subject: Re: 1/64 or 1/61 Scale
Hi Ted, What does the average 1/64th auto measure in inches?
Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Larson [mailto:mhrreast@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 12:10 PM
To: Scale S; Trains S
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: 1/64 or 1/61 Scale


In answer to the question about 1/61 scale vehicles, I have found that
most (not all) vehicles "look right" for S scale if their deviation
from true S scale is within 1/61 to 1/67 scale. Outside that, they
might still be acceptable "stand-ins", but they just don't look quite
right, the size discrepancy is just too much for my eyes.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



+

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 19994 From: IronHorse Date: 6/18/2002
Subject: Train Site crashed my computer
I have been trying to get to the site listed below.
Each time I try, I get a yellow background, and then my computer
freezes up. Anybody else have the problem or is it just me?

Comments ???

Roger Hinds

> http://S-Trains.westhost.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19995 From: af21115 Date: 6/18/2002
Subject: Re: Train Site crashed my computer
Works Ok for me. Make sure you have Java Script enabled and your
browser will allow cookies.
Group: S-Trains Message: 19996 From: Ted Larson Date: 6/18/2002
Subject: Re: 1/64 or 1/61 Scale
Interesting question. I believe that real cars are commonly about 16
feet long. At 3/16" per foot, that is 48/16, or 3 inches. Most Racing
Champions cars are very close to correct 1/64th scale. Measuring them
and measuring some real cars should give you good baseline information.
Ted

--- "Stoudt,Kenneth R." <STOUDTKR@ > wrote:
> Hi Ted, What does the average 1/64th auto measure in inches?
> Ken

=====
Ted Larson

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19997 From: Chuck Smith Date: 6/18/2002
Subject: Re: Using SHS trucks
What worked well for me was to epoxy wooden bolsters to the AF floor and
mount the trucks on these. Basswood or poplar (not balsa) from a model
airplane store works well. Height is determined by trial and error.
Very small wood screws mount the trucks. Truck center spacing from end
of car will be shorter than AF and again is determined by trial and
error. Whatever dimension you settle on is OK if you like the looks.
(My philosophy on model trains is: if you're satisfied with it, it's
right.) Actually, if you have an AM or SHS car next to it for
comparison just match these and it will look great.

JFrederick Roberts wrote:
>
> Since the trucks from SHS are build different from American Flyer
> trucks, what do you need to do to mount them? Does anyone have a
> diagram or picture of the conversion and the attachment of the coupler.
> I am interested in hi rail conversions.
>
> My question too. I've used SHS on PRS cars, but for Flyer do you need an Ace floor or perhaps the bolsters? It would seem like the Flyer mounting point would be too far back from the car end. Or, does that just make for closer coupled cars?
>
> jfred
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 19998 From: Don Thompson Date: 6/18/2002
Subject: Re: Using SHS trucks
I wonder if anyone has ever tried Ace bolsters?
Don

Chuck Smith wrote:

> What worked well for me was to epoxy wooden bolsters to the AF floor and
> mount the trucks on these. Basswood or poplar (not balsa) from a model
> airplane store works well. Height is determined by trial and error.
> Very small wood screws mount the trucks. Truck center spacing from end
> of car will be shorter than AF and again is determined by trial and
> error. Whatever dimension you settle on is OK if you like the looks.
> (My philosophy on model trains is: if you're satisfied with it, it's
> right.) Actually, if you have an AM or SHS car next to it for
> comparison just match these and it will look great.
>
> JFrederick Roberts wrote:
> >
> > Since the trucks from SHS are build different from American Flyer
> > trucks, what do you need to do to mount them? Does anyone have a
> > diagram or picture of the conversion and the attachment of the coupler.
> > I am interested in hi rail conversions.
> >
> > My question too. I've used SHS on PRS cars, but for Flyer do you need an Ace floor or perhaps the bolsters? It would seem like the Flyer mounting point would be too far back from the car end. Or, does that just make for closer coupled cars?
> >
> > jfred

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 19999 From: Bill Lane Date: 6/18/2002
Subject: FD-2 Queen Mary Flat photos
Hi All,

As a favor to PRR TALK list member Sam V., I have uploaded the 3 Builders
photos of the FD-2 Queen Mary Flat car as per an earlier thread. He could
not open the attachments. They are 8 x 10 at 300 DPI, so they are pretty
good quality. I scanned them directly from my 4 x 5 copy negs, so they are
not as perfect as if I printed them. Download and save while you can folks.
I am only keeping these links live for a few days.

I hope this is appreciated. My last post was returned to me by someone with
a completely unrelated topic attacking me. This is the kind of person I AM!

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/FD2end.jpg

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/FD234view.jpg

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/FD2side.jpg

Enjoy,

Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 20000 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/18/2002
Subject: Re: Using SHS trucks
Don Thompson <robin@s...> wrote:

>I wonder if anyone has ever tried Ace bolsters?


I've used Ace bolsters and Ace AF boxcar floors with Ace and AM
trucks. I see no reason why SHS trucks wouldn't work with them,
especially if you use SHS hi-rail couplers. I've used SHS roller
bearing trucks to convert Lionel 3-deck auto racks, but I built up
the needed bolsters from Plastruct styrene (not ABS) H-beams and
styrene cardstock. I also built my own extra-long coupler shanks.

Ace conversion bolsters and floors make converting plastic AF rolling
stock a snap. The only Ace bolster I don't like is the "newer"
flatcar bolster that raises the car too high and centers the
replacement truck on the same point as the AF truck. That point is
too far from the car end. The older flatcar conversion bolster puts a
scale truck right where it should be.

I don't know if Ace still offers the "newer" flatcar bolster, or if
they gave it up. Their metal bolster for converting AF hopper cars
may be a good substitute for the "old" flatcar bolster. I haven't
tried it yet, but I have a set of the hopper car bolsters, and they
just might work on the AF flat.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20001 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/18/2002
Subject: Re: FD-2 Queen Mary Flat photos
GREAT pix, Bill! I love this kind of special rolling stock!

Many thanx!

Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20002 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 6/19/2002
Subject: Re: FD-2 Queen Mary Flat photos
Hi all:
Has anyone made something similar to this Queen Mary flatcar? I seem to
remember that River Raisin had advertised a drop floor flat for large
loads, but any models from our usual suppliers?
Rance Velapoldi

jahoozdumm wrote:

>GREAT pix, Bill! I love this kind of special rolling stock!
>
>Many thanx!
>
>Chuck F.
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20003 From: Clifford Manning Date: 6/19/2002
Subject: 785-A
Does anyone have a parts breakdown of a 785-A "Sam" the Semaphore Man?
I need a new spring for the semaphore arm. If you have a diagram, I
would appreciate you posting it.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20004 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/19/2002
Subject: FD-2 Queen Mary Flat photos
Get out the Prozac! That is a seriously depressed flatcar. Wow, what a
great model that would make. Probably not a big seller, but great to look
at. Half a million pounds capacity; I'm in awe.

What is the overall length of the car and what is the length of the actual
cargo area? This car could carry a steam locomotive (a Big Boy!) but for
the length. I imagine that the wheeled ends were used to carry accessory
items to whatever the main load happened to be? There is a lot of cargo
area on them as well.

Great pictures. These must be builders photos with the background whited
out?

Thanx,
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20005 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 6/19/2002
Subject: Re: FD-2 Queen Mary Flat photos
Think of the curves one would need on a layout to run this.
Rance Velapoldi

Chris Zizzo wrote:

>Get out the Prozac! That is a seriously depressed flatcar. Wow, what a
>great model that would make. Probably not a big seller, but great to look
>at. Half a million pounds capacity; I'm in awe.
>
>What is the overall length of the car and what is the length of the actual
>cargo area? This car could carry a steam locomotive (a Big Boy!) but for
>the length. I imagine that the wheeled ends were used to carry accessory
>items to whatever the main load happened to be? There is a lot of cargo
>area on them as well.
>
>Great pictures. These must be builders photos with the background whited
>out?
>
>Thanx,
>Chris Zizzo
>
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
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>
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>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20006 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/19/2002
Subject: Re: FD-2 Queen Mary Flat photos
Rance Velapoldi said:
>Think of the curves one would need on a layout to run this.

With all that articulation and multiple trucks it probably would run on most
layouts, but it will never be an MTH Rail King 027 model!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20007 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 6/19/2002
Subject: PRR K-5
I came across a couple of nuggets of info and opinion about the 2 original
K-5 locomotives in The Locomotives that Baldwin Built, by F. Westering.
Thought that SPF's and others might enjoy. I quote from 2 photo captions:

"In an attempt to produce a Pacific capable of matching a Hudson, the
Pennsylvania Railroad designed and ordered two super-Pacifics, class K5.
One No. 5699, was built by Baldwin in 1929, and equipped with the Caprotti
poppet valve gear invented by Senor Arturo Caprotti, of Italy. The other
K5, no. 5698, was built by the Pennsy at Altoona and used Walschaerts gear.
Each K-5 rated 54,675 lb. tractive force surpassing their own K-4 class
and the New York Central's Hudsons, despite the latter's use of a booster
trailing truck. But the K5's ponderous size restricted operating locations
and, in upper speed ranges the Central's Hudsons out-performed them. How
the Pennsy could have expected a hand-fired, muzzle-loading Pacific to
equal or beat a superbly designed and built New York Central Hudson,
appears to be a high point in engineering naivete!

Pennsy's dogged insistence on hand-firing these huge locomotives"
..."borders on unjustifiable obstinacy. Naturally, the full potentialities
of that big well designed K-5 boiler (for it was all of that) could not be
realized by one pair of human arms.

In time the Caprotti gear gave way to the Walschaerts on the 5699 as the
latter seemed sturdier and more effective in meeting American conditions.
Suffice it to say class K5 stopped with these two engines and after a
comparitively short and uneventful career disappeared from the scene."

"This particular engine (no. 5699) was known to Pennsy railroaders as
"Mussolini" due to the Italian invented poppet gear." ..." Engine no.
5698, on the other hand, was called "General Butler" due to some
controversial incident that was publicized between Premier Mussolini and
General Smedley Butler."

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20008 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 6/19/2002
Subject: 758A Sam the Sem
The 758A is the two button version. Does it have a spring? Why would it
need one? The 758 has one solenoid and a spring, but the 758A has two
solenoids. One moves the blade up, and the other moves it down. Why would
a spring be necessary?

Unfortunately , my 758A is not accessible right now to verify this.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20009 From: srgriggs Date: 6/19/2002
Subject: Re: PRR K-5
--- In S-Trains@y..., jarcho@r... wrote:
> I came across a couple of nuggets of info and opinion about the 2
original
> K-5 locomotives in The Locomotives that Baldwin Built, by F.
Westering.
> Thought that SPF's and others might enjoy. I quote from 2 photo
captions:
>
> "In an attempt to produce a Pacific capable of matching a Hudson,
the
> Pennsylvania Railroad designed and ordered two super-Pacifics, class
K5.
> One No. 5699, was built by Baldwin in 1929, and equipped with the
Caprotti
> poppet valve gear invented by Senor Arturo Caprotti, of Italy. The
other
> K5, no. 5698, was built by the Pennsy at Altoona and used
Walschaerts gear.

Photo of the real 5698, prototype for the Gilbert K5:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/AFPrototypePhotos/AFPenns
yK5Pacific/prr5698.jpg

Anyone who owns an AF K5 can observe that it is accurate down to the
#5698 cast into the boilerfront keystone!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20010 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 6/19/2002
Subject: Re: PRR K-5
In a message dated 6/19/02 7:27:50 PM, jarcho@... writes:

<< Pennsy's dogged insistence on hand-firing these huge locomotives"
..."borders on unjustifiable obstinacy. Naturally, the full potentialities
of that big well designed K-5 boiler (for it was all of that) could not be
realized by one pair of human arms.>>

There is some truth to this comment as far as it goes, but the real point of
weakness for the K-5's was that they had a lower factor of adhesion than the
K-4s (3.8 vs. 4.54). If one increases horsepower but does not also increase
the weight of the engine, tendency for slippage is accentuated. Some K4s'
were equipped with stokers in the 1930s. Had the K-5 been more successful,
stokers and enlarged tenders could have been fitted to them (See, "Pennsy
Power, pp. 142 - 191). The comment also appears to ignore the fact that the
NYC had its water level route, while the Pennsy had to cross the Alleghenies
-- one would often have to double-head Hudsons as well as Pacifics for that
route. The M1a Mountain purchased in greater quantity would have been a
better choice for the PRR.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20011 From: Rick Evans Date: 6/19/2002
Subject: SHS trucks/couplers....again!
For those who might like to try the SHS trucks and couplers on any AF rolling stock,..
I forgot to mention,...if the close coupling bothers you,...SHS does make couplers that are
longer,...Steve and I used them on our On30 caboose conversions. They might be a tad
too long for some AF rolling stock. I haven't compared the two.

And after seeing a Marx auto hauler conversion using AF trucks,.. at the other site Paul is working on,...
I bid on one ,on ebay,..and just found out I won it !! I'll need to order more SHS trucks!! Maybe
I'll use AF.

Rick.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20012 From: dougwyatt Date: 6/20/2002
Subject: AF Switches and DCC
Is anyone using Digitrax DS54's to control their AF switches? How did
you wire them to handle the high current typically drawn by these
switches? What power supply are you using?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20013 From: John Foley Date: 6/20/2002
Subject: Test
Hi Folks
Just a test. I have been bouncing for some reason.
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 20014 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/20/2002
Subject: More toys for the 0 boys.
I got this announcement today via e-mail.

Lionel has announced a new Union Pacific 4-12-2. The Prototype for this
engine was the largest rigid frame steam engine ever built. This special
non-cataloged offering is a very limited production and is sure to sell out
fast. The engine features Trainmaster Command Control, able to run in
command or conventional mode, Odyssey System for speed control, Improved
RailSounds sound system with CrewTalk communications, TowerCom announcements
and unique three-cylinder DynaChuff synchronized chugging, High Torque
Pitman motor with momentum flywheel, Directional Lighting with operating
headlight and backup light on rear of tender, lighted number boards and
marker lights, die-cast Locomotive body, frame, pilot and trucks, Gresley
valve gear details and reciprocating third-cylinder drive rod, scale front
coupler with interchangeable O gauge coupler, two traction tires, fan-driven
smoke unit with improved smoke output, separately applied metal details,
painted exterior valve handles, accurate, separately applied builder's
plates, variable ashpan glow, flickering firebox in cab, authentically
detailed and illuminated cab interior, cab window glass, engineer and
fireman figures, die-cast metal tender body and trucks, and ElectroCoupler
on rear of tender.

We have only one of these engines available. You may order it from the
website or give us a call at 901-384-6500. First come, first served."

Oh yeah, well we've got a-a-a-a Pacific . . . yeah, and more Atlantics than
Lionel ever made, so there. That's what we got, and none of that extra crap
on them either; just more stuff to break. Yeah. Sigh.


Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20015 From: Damian Brindell Date: 6/20/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys.
Chris Zizzo wrote about the new Lionel engine with:
"....Improved RailSounds sound system with CrewTalk communications, TowerCom
announcements, and unique three-cylinder DynaChuff synchronized
chugging...."

and then said:
"That's what we got, and none of that extra crap
on them either; just more stuff to break. Yeah."

Here's my opinion. I THINK Chris was being sarcastic with that last remark.
But actually I think he is correct. I have heard demos of Lionel and MTH
engines with all kinds of sophisticated sounds, and they are impressive for
the first five minutes. After that, they are more annoying than anything
else. They sound like a tinny and poor imitation of a real train, or like a
cheap AM car radio from 1959. I'd rather have good ol' Flyer smoke and
choo-choo any day.

So there!

Dan B.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
To: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 2:31 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] More toys for the 0 boys.


> I got this announcement today via e-mail.
>
> Lionel has announced a new Union Pacific 4-12-2. The Prototype for this
> engine was the largest rigid frame steam engine ever built. This special
> non-cataloged offering is a very limited production and is sure to sell
out
> fast. The engine features Trainmaster Command Control, able to run in
> command or conventional mode, Odyssey System for speed control, Improved
> RailSounds sound system with CrewTalk communications, TowerCom
announcements
> and unique three-cylinder DynaChuff synchronized chugging, High Torque
> Pitman motor with momentum flywheel, Directional Lighting with operating
> headlight and backup light on rear of tender, lighted number boards and
> marker lights, die-cast Locomotive body, frame, pilot and trucks, Gresley
> valve gear details and reciprocating third-cylinder drive rod, scale front
> coupler with interchangeable O gauge coupler, two traction tires,
fan-driven
> smoke unit with improved smoke output, separately applied metal details,
> painted exterior valve handles, accurate, separately applied builder's
> plates, variable ashpan glow, flickering firebox in cab, authentically
> detailed and illuminated cab interior, cab window glass, engineer and
> fireman figures, die-cast metal tender body and trucks, and ElectroCoupler
> on rear of tender.
>
> We have only one of these engines available. You may order it from the
> website or give us a call at 901-384-6500. First come, first served."
>
> Oh yeah, well we've got a-a-a-a Pacific . . . yeah, and more Atlantics
than
> Lionel ever made, so there. That's what we got, and none of that extra
crap
> on them either; just more stuff to break. Yeah. Sigh.
>
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20016 From: Michael Westphal Date: 6/20/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys.
On 6/20/02 21:20, Damian Brindell, dbrindell@..., said:

>Chris Zizzo wrote about the new Lionel engine with:
>"....Improved RailSounds sound system with CrewTalk communications, TowerCom
>announcements, and unique three-cylinder DynaChuff synchronized
>chugging...."
>
>and then said:
>"That's what we got, and none of that extra crap
>on them either; just more stuff to break. Yeah."
>
>Here's my opinion. I THINK Chris was being sarcastic with that last remark.
>But actually I think he is correct. I have heard demos of Lionel and MTH
>engines with all kinds of sophisticated sounds, and they are impressive for
>the first five minutes.

Lionel always writes very impressive descriptions. But reality never
matches the description. I bought a Lionel E6 Atlantic with all the
sounds and "impressive detail". The thing barely runs (in fact it didn't
for the first 6 months as it traveled back to the dealer twice) and is
very fragile and finicky. I was never able to sell it for even half of
what I paid for it. It now sits on a shelf as an expensive lesson and
dust collector. As an independent film maker, I'm looking for a good
story where I can blow it up in a train accident.

Don't be seduced by the dark side. It's all marketing hype.

Michael
Group: S-Trains Message: 20017 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 6/20/2002
Subject: 302 Christmas Engine
Hi Everyone,
I just added a file to the photo's section of my repainted 302 AC Christmas
Engine. I have more of the layout if anyone is interested.
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/lst the file is listed as
christmas engine. Enjoy. CB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20018 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/20/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Chris Zizzo <busyboy@o...> wrote:

>I got this announcement today via e-mail. Lionel has announced a new
>Union Pacific 4-12-2.

Chris, did this email come from Lionel? The more I read this list
of "specs", the more this sounds like a joke. Such a joke wouldn't be
unlikely. There are many more Zero gauge guys than S guys fed up with
Lionel.


Just a couple of things that sound suspicious:

>This special non-cataloged offering is a very limited production and
>is sure to sell out fast.

Bogus, "non-catalogued" things like this have been announced before,
allegedly by the Big L, but just rumors.


>The engine features Trainmaster Command Control, able to run in
>command or conventional mode, Odyssey System for speed control,
><snip> High Torque Pitman motor with momentum flywheel,

The core of the "Odyssey System" is supposed to be a specially built
motor (a type of brushless DC motor), and such a system would not use
a "High Torque Pitman motor."


>reciprocating third-cylinder drive rod

The 3rd cylinder rod is between the drive wheels, and probably
wouldn't be visible without turning the loco over. Would Lionel go to
so much trouble for something that nobody could see unless the loco
plopped over on its side? Do they want wrecks to be that realistic?


>painted exterior valve handles, accurate, separately applied
>builder's plates, variable ashpan glow, flickering firebox in cab,
>authentically detailed and illuminated cab interior, cab window
>glass...

It's beginning to sound a bit satirical, isn't it? What, no scale-
sized coal granules on the cab floor? :^)


>We have only one of these engines available. You may order it from
>the website or give us a call at 901-384-6500. First come, first
>served."

Boy-howdy! Talk about your minimum run! ONE unit?

It's GOT to be a joke. A couple of years ago, a certain
infamous "announcement" of a "new" MTH sound system was circulated.
It was a hoax, and a darn funny one. This could be an MTH fan getting
even, or a disgruntled Lionel guy who didn't get his order, or both.


I wouldn't take it seriously. I bet you're not either, are you? (Or
did YOU joking with us? ;^))


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20019 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/20/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
"Damian Brindell" <dbrindell@w...> wrote:

>I THINK Chris was being sarcastic with that last remark.

He may have been pulling our legs with the entire post! 8^D


>I have heard demos of Lionel and MTH engines with all kinds of
>sophisticated sounds, and they are impressive for the first five
>minutes. After that, they are more annoying than anything else.

I agree. 'Course, a MAJOR annoyance is that zero gaugers seem to
insist on turning the volume all the way UP!


>They sound like a tinny and poor imitation of a real train, or like a
>cheap AM car radio from 1959.

At least two reasons for this: 1. Small speakers that cannot
reproduce the necessary sound wavelengths (no matter how big a box
you put them in); 2. Slow digital sampling rates. Sampling a random
sound like steam rushing out a pipe at a low sampling rate is a sure
way to come up with a gritty, irritating sound. Gives me a headache
just to think about it.


>I'd rather have good ol' Flyer smoke and choo-choo any day.

I'm with you.

Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20020 From: David Dewey Date: 6/20/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
chuck,
I think it is for real, I've seen other notices about this engine.
Odyssey (sp?) system has changed, they dropped the special motor, went to
special electronic controls using standard motor.
I only know such Big L stuff because I sometimes fix or trade it for AF!
And I know less than I think I know!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20021 From: Tim Brown Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys.
Hi,

Thanks goodness someone had the backbone to say it. I thought I was just old-fashioned. I've heard all those fancy "rail sounds". I'll take the AF smoke and choo-choo any day. Sometimes you just can't improve upon the best. There is no substitute for a suit made of fine worsted wool, or a table setting of crystal and bone china. I'll crawl back into my basement a while now.

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Damian Brindell
To: slist
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] More toys for the 0 boys.


Chris Zizzo wrote about the new Lionel engine with:
"....Improved RailSounds sound system with CrewTalk communications, TowerCom
announcements, and unique three-cylinder DynaChuff synchronized
chugging...."

and then said:
"That's what we got, and none of that extra crap
on them either; just more stuff to break. Yeah."

Here's my opinion. I THINK Chris was being sarcastic with that last remark.
But actually I think he is correct. I have heard demos of Lionel and MTH
engines with all kinds of sophisticated sounds, and they are impressive for
the first five minutes. After that, they are more annoying than anything
else. They sound like a tinny and poor imitation of a real train, or like a
cheap AM car radio from 1959. I'd rather have good ol' Flyer smoke and
choo-choo any day.

So there!

Dan B.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
To: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 2:31 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] More toys for the 0 boys.


> I got this announcement today via e-mail.
>
> Lionel has announced a new Union Pacific 4-12-2. The Prototype for this
> engine was the largest rigid frame steam engine ever built. This special
> non-cataloged offering is a very limited production and is sure to sell
out
> fast. The engine features Trainmaster Command Control, able to run in
> command or conventional mode, Odyssey System for speed control, Improved
> RailSounds sound system with CrewTalk communications, TowerCom
announcements
> and unique three-cylinder DynaChuff synchronized chugging, High Torque
> Pitman motor with momentum flywheel, Directional Lighting with operating
> headlight and backup light on rear of tender, lighted number boards and
> marker lights, die-cast Locomotive body, frame, pilot and trucks, Gresley
> valve gear details and reciprocating third-cylinder drive rod, scale front
> coupler with interchangeable O gauge coupler, two traction tires,
fan-driven
> smoke unit with improved smoke output, separately applied metal details,
> painted exterior valve handles, accurate, separately applied builder's
> plates, variable ashpan glow, flickering firebox in cab, authentically
> detailed and illuminated cab interior, cab window glass, engineer and
> fireman figures, die-cast metal tender body and trucks, and ElectroCoupler
> on rear of tender.
>
> We have only one of these engines available. You may order it from the
> website or give us a call at 901-384-6500. First come, first served."
>
> Oh yeah, well we've got a-a-a-a Pacific . . . yeah, and more Atlantics
than
> Lionel ever made, so there. That's what we got, and none of that extra
crap
> on them either; just more stuff to break. Yeah. Sigh.
>
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20022 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Every one of you took issue with the "extras", the sound system especially.
My concern was that the 0 guys just got ANOTHER HUGE steamer, and in our new
offerings, we're still screwing around with Pacifics and small early steam
era freight engines. Where are our Mountains and Challengers and Big Boys
and Decapods and Texas' and even 4-12-2's?

Sarcastic? No, just feeling a little hopeless.

Chuck: This announcement was from a dealer, who has one engine allotted to
him. The Odyssey does use a "High Torque Pitman motor." The "Odyssey
System" is a cruise control for your engines, it is no longer using an
Odyssey motor.

You asked: "The 3rd cylinder rod is between the drive wheels, and probably
wouldn't be visible without turning the loco over. Would Lionel go to
so much trouble for something that nobody could see unless the loco
plopped over on its side?"

Yeah, that's what kind of stuff the 0 guys are getting. And it's
uncatalogued.

>painted exterior valve handles, accurate, separately applied
>builder's plates, variable ashpan glow, flickering firebox in cab,
>authentically detailed and illuminated cab interior, cab window
>glass...

"It's beginning to sound a bit satirical, isn't it? What, no scale-
sized coal granules on the cab floor? :^)"

There ARE scale-sized coal granules on the cab floor, it just wasn't
mentioned.
Pathetic, isn't it?

OK, to a cheery note, let's all discuss more ways to make the 302 Atlantic
run smoother. You first, Chuck. (Now, THAT was sarcastic.)

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20023 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Amazing
Our own Mark Preman just sold two AM sreamliners on E-Bay. I would have
liked to own them but the bidding got too rich for me when it passed $50 a
car (and it did so early in the game.) Both are Vista-Domes. One is a GN
Empire Builder car and the second is an NP Main Street car. Both went to
the same bidder.

Take a look at them, they're beauties. Before you do, though, take your
heart pill. Mark got a good price, especially for the GN.

GN: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1740856085
NP: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1740856617

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20024 From: David Dewey Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys.
Hmm, I'd take a nice LOUD 100% cotton REAL Hawaiian shirt over that wool
suit any day! Other than that, I agree!
And Chris; doesn't matter what those O guys get, our trains are still
running on REAL 2-rail, T headed track! So "our trains are better'n your
trains, Nyah, nyah, nyah!"
Someone pass me another Root Beer. . . .
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20025 From: plotnick Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Franklin Smoke Repair Advice
All:
At a flea market this weekend, I picked up the very fragmentary remains of a
Franklin set. The only really useful part was the engine chassis. It runs
beautifully, but I can't get it to smoke. There is a clear choo-choo sound.
I've
checked the wire resistance and its fine. I've also soaked the inside of the
smoke unit overnight in WD-40. Still no go. Given the design, I'm hesitant
to disassemble to get at the nichrome wire and wick and not even sure of the
best way to do it. Please advise! -Roy

Roy E. Plotnick
Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences
University of Illinois at Chicago
845 W. Taylor St.
Chicago, Il .60607
phone: 312-996-2111 630-252-6377(May-August)
e-mail: plotnick@...
homepage: http://www.uic.edu/depts/geos/people/faculty/plotnick.html

"Those who do not know the literature are condemned to repeat it."
Group: S-Trains Message: 20026 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Guys and gals:

The Lionel offering of a Baldwin UP 4-12-2 is the real thing. I've seen this
engine and it is a beaut! Those of you in the Philly area can go visit the
Franklin Institute and see a prototype that is close to (but not exactly)
what Lionel is modeling.

I saw a very advanced production version of this engine along with their new
UP Veranda at Wild Bill's in Detroit three weeks ago. Bill Bracy and Dick
Maddox were on hand to talk trains for three hours and they brought along
some new toys to play with. The third cylinder does work and one can observe
its operation by looking through the side. Its operation is included in the
overall sounds for this engine. The sounds are improved over recent issues --
Lionel is having newly specified larger speakers made for them. By the way,
Railsounds 4.0 is just great. The labored chuffing is fun and the whistles in
the Lionels sound really good these days. The trick is to build a well-damped
layout (e.g., rubber road bed) and moderate the sound level. If one makes the
chuffing sound at about the same level as the Gilbert choo-choo mechanism
(surprise, surprise!), listener fatigue is not a problem. Most S gaugers hear
these engines in venues where levels are cranked up and background noise is
high. I must also add that the Odyssey cruise is a superb operational feature
and is addictive. The electrocouplers are very useful, etc. In short, TMCC
(or systems like it) are super. I own a number of these engines and they are
superb and a real "hoot" to operate. Those who tell you otherwise are either:
(a) suffering from sour grapes, (b) uninformed, or (c) both. You can't stay
down on the farm after you've seen Paris.

I have one on order and it should be in my hands by the end of July. If I
can't get my steam engine "fix" in S gauge, I'll go where I will be satisfied.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20027 From: David Dewey Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Hmm, well I am neither "a) suffering from sour grapes," nor " (b)
uninformed,"nor "(c) both." I just look at the world differently than most.
If I were wealthy, I would be called "eccentric," but I'm not, so I spend a
lot of time dodging that padded van with the white-coated assistants. ("WHO
are those guys"--Butch to Sundance or vice-versa)
;-)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20028 From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Yo:

A lot of the same TMCC capability is out there for S-gauge, it is utilizing
DCC. It may lack a few things like remote couplers and labored chuff. But
it does have some: For example Odyssey Cruise, you can get better
performance in DCC with Back EMF decoders. You can get sounds (chuff, horn,
bell, coupler noise, firemen Fred, and steam blow off) with Soundtraxx
decoders. DCC also has similar control capability as TMCC, like operating
more than one loco, wireless remote control, but one of the BIG differences
is DCC has a standard across manufactures, where you can use any decoder
with any command base. TMCC from Lionel has some major problems with
compatibility with MTH equipment.

The amount of development money out there for O-gauge manufactures is much
higher than with S-gauge. The market is MUCH bigger in O-gauge. So you
would expect to have more bells and whistles.

Looking forward we now see S-gauge manufactures incorporating DCC in there
new products, SHS has DCC loco's RTR and American Models has a standard DCC
plug.

FYI I do both O and S and they both have advantages and disadvantages.

My 2 cents.

Tommy

-----Original Message-----
From: rbubeck327@... [mailto:rbubeck327@...]
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 10:53 AM
To: busyboy@...; s-trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: More toys for the 0 boys


Guys and gals:

The Lionel offering of a Baldwin UP 4-12-2 is the real thing. I've seen this

engine and it is a beaut! Those of you in the Philly area can go visit the
Franklin Institute and see a prototype that is close to (but not exactly)
what Lionel is modeling.

I saw a very advanced production version of this engine along with their new

UP Veranda at Wild Bill's in Detroit three weeks ago. Bill Bracy and Dick
Maddox were on hand to talk trains for three hours and they brought along
some new toys to play with. The third cylinder does work and one can
observe
its operation by looking through the side. Its operation is included in the
overall sounds for this engine. The sounds are improved over recent issues
--
Lionel is having newly specified larger speakers made for them. By the way,

Railsounds 4.0 is just great. The labored chuffing is fun and the whistles
in
the Lionels sound really good these days. The trick is to build a
well-damped
layout (e.g., rubber road bed) and moderate the sound level. If one makes
the
chuffing sound at about the same level as the Gilbert choo-choo mechanism
(surprise, surprise!), listener fatigue is not a problem. Most S gaugers
hear
these engines in venues where levels are cranked up and background noise is
high. I must also add that the Odyssey cruise is a superb operational
feature
and is addictive. The electrocouplers are very useful, etc. In short, TMCC
(or systems like it) are super. I own a number of these engines and they are

superb and a real "hoot" to operate. Those who tell you otherwise are
either:
(a) suffering from sour grapes, (b) uninformed, or (c) both. You can't stay
down on the farm after you've seen Paris.

I have one on order and it should be in my hands by the end of July. If I
can't get my steam engine "fix" in S gauge, I'll go where I will be
satisfied.

RB

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Group: S-Trains Message: 20029 From: Mike Vana Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Lionel 4-12-2
Sunset's third rail did an O scale UP 4-12-2 in the
last three or four years. Perhaps Lionel got one,
went to their manufacturer, and is getting the same
engine with some modifications. It sure wouldn't
take O27 curves!

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20030 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Bob Bubeck, the guy who wrote the book on Flyer, said:

>The Lionel offering of a Baldwin UP 4-12-2 is the real thing. I've seen
this
>engine and it is a beaut!
>
>Railsounds 4.0 is just great. The labored chuffing is fun and the whistles
in
>the Lionels sound really good these days.
>
>TMCC (or systems like it) are super. I own a number of these engines and
they are
>superb and a real "hoot" to operate.


Oh great, rub it in, why don'tcha?

I'm thinking that a blackened center rail isn't all that noticeable . . .

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20031 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Tom Robichaud says:
>A lot of the same TMCC capability is out there for S-gauge, it is utilizing
DCC.

Yes, Tom, but in what engines? Does your Mountain have DCC? What about
your Mohawk? Or did you only install it in your Allegheny?

Before someone reminds me that these are available in brass, I will point
out that I am a high-railer and that all the toys we are talking about come
scale and ala carte in S, so they end up much pricier.

Frankly, I don't salivate over the sound systems. This discussion went awry
over the details. I have stood on this soapbox before and screamed it out
loud enough for no one to hear me. Allow me to do it again. Give us big
steam. BIG STEAM!

For all the developmental work involved on all the Pacifics and
Consolidations, we could be getting Challengers and Niagaras. How much R&D
would a T-1 take? It's practically two Flyer Atlantics doubleheading under
one boiler.

I like all the streamlined Pacifics, but I'm weary of buying more. In S,
it's becoming the PA of steam. And don't give me all the ESE Hudson
nonsense either. It's just another Pacific with an extra trailing axle.
Streamlining lets the manufacturer off the hook for all the boiler and
firebox details.

We want BIG STEAM!!! Gauge is starting to become irrelevant.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20032 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
TMCC? Did somebody say TMCC????

I have been trying to get somebdy else besides me fired up about putting
TMCC in FLYER..

The Beauty with TMCC is you don't have to convert every engine you own to
it. Start with one and run it with your conventional engines. You will want
to do them all but you not have to. You are still compatiable on anybody
else's AC layout too.

Electromagnetic coil Couplers for AF??? Did somebody say Couplers???

I have done that too.

Just because LTI doesn't offer it yet does not mean we can't have it too.
You just have to be a little creative.

To see more on these conversions visit my web site at:

http://www.tuveson.com and click on the hints and tips section.


Flyer Rules!!!

Carl



-----Original Message-----
From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) [mailto:trobicha@...]
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 11:46 AM
To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [S-Trains] Re: More toys for the 0 boys


Yo:

A lot of the same TMCC capability is out there for S-gauge, it is utilizing
DCC. It may lack a few things like remote couplers and labored chuff. But
it does have some: For example Odyssey Cruise, you can get better
performance in DCC with Back EMF decoders. You can get sounds (chuff, horn,
bell, coupler noise, firemen Fred, and steam blow off) with Soundtraxx
decoders. DCC also has similar control capability as TMCC, like operating
more than one loco, wireless remote control, but one of the BIG differences
is DCC has a standard across manufactures, where you can use any decoder
with any command base. TMCC from Lionel has some major problems with
compatibility with MTH equipment.

The amount of development money out there for O-gauge manufactures is much
higher than with S-gauge. The market is MUCH bigger in O-gauge. So you
would expect to have more bells and whistles.

Looking forward we now see S-gauge manufactures incorporating DCC in there
new products, SHS has DCC loco's RTR and American Models has a standard DCC
plug.

FYI I do both O and S and they both have advantages and disadvantages.

My 2 cents.

Tommy

-----Original Message-----
From: rbubeck327@... [mailto:rbubeck327@...]
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 10:53 AM
To: busyboy@...; s-trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: More toys for the 0 boys


Guys and gals:

The Lionel offering of a Baldwin UP 4-12-2 is the real thing. I've seen this

engine and it is a beaut! Those of you in the Philly area can go visit the
Franklin Institute and see a prototype that is close to (but not exactly)
what Lionel is modeling.

I saw a very advanced production version of this engine along with their new

UP Veranda at Wild Bill's in Detroit three weeks ago. Bill Bracy and Dick
Maddox were on hand to talk trains for three hours and they brought along
some new toys to play with. The third cylinder does work and one can
observe
its operation by looking through the side. Its operation is included in the
overall sounds for this engine. The sounds are improved over recent issues
--
Lionel is having newly specified larger speakers made for them. By the way,

Railsounds 4.0 is just great. The labored chuffing is fun and the whistles
in
the Lionels sound really good these days. The trick is to build a
well-damped
layout (e.g., rubber road bed) and moderate the sound level. If one makes
the
chuffing sound at about the same level as the Gilbert choo-choo mechanism
(surprise, surprise!), listener fatigue is not a problem. Most S gaugers
hear
these engines in venues where levels are cranked up and background noise is
high. I must also add that the Odyssey cruise is a superb operational
feature
and is addictive. The electrocouplers are very useful, etc. In short, TMCC
(or systems like it) are super. I own a number of these engines and they are

superb and a real "hoot" to operate. Those who tell you otherwise are
either:
(a) suffering from sour grapes, (b) uninformed, or (c) both. You can't stay
down on the farm after you've seen Paris.

I have one on order and it should be in my hands by the end of July. If I
can't get my steam engine "fix" in S gauge, I'll go where I will be
satisfied.

RB

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All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


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All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 20033 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: Lionel 4-12-2
In a message dated 6/21/02 1:21:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
amflyer@... writes:

<< Sunset's third rail did an O scale UP 4-12-2 in the last three or four
years. Perhaps Lionel got one, went to their manufacturer, and is getting the
same engine with some modifications. It sure wouldn't take O27 curves!

Mike Vana Omaha, NE. >>

Excuse me, Mike, but you are speculating. Yes, 3rd Rail Brass did do a
4-12-2, but the Lionel is all new tooling, obviously -- it's diecast. The
Lionel's third cylinder does operate. Of course it requires O-72. BTW, I had
the opportunity to (personally) run the thing for 10 minutes -- ran it flat
out, ran it super slow, operated the couplers, pulled a long freight,
operated every feature, etc. The model appears to be a quite accurate
rendition of UP 9000. It looks like Lionel did their homework on this one. I
ran the Veranda preproduction unit, too. The rear exhaust stack works at low
speed, then the big one forward kicks in and the rear one shuts off as one
increases speed -- just like the prototype did. In the meantime the diesel
sounds change accordingly. This stuff is fun, and if one doesn't like it, one
probably doesn't like ice cream.

Yes, DCC is available in S, but where are all of the new, detailed
"scaleplate" engines to operate under the umbrella of this system. The UP
9000, as neat as it is, is but one piece in a vast array of steam engines
available in 0. One of the strengths of TMCC, BTW, is that most of the
technology comes in the engines right out of the box and it only takes very
simple connection from the command base to get up and running. Conventional
layouts are greatly transformed with a minimum of work. TPC300s and 400s can
be used to greatly enhance the operation of conventional non-TMCC locos (even
prewar!).

Please don't misunderstand. I love my Flyer -- always will! I continue to
run, fix, collect, etc., that great vintage Gilbert. I see much vindication
of the Gilbert philosophy in the better new scale-sized 0 gauge trains. But,
roughly a half century has passed and it should not be any great surprise
that some new toys with a few new tricks have finally arrived. If you were
sitting in the time of 1950, would you have stubbornly insisted on sticking
exclusively with Carlisle and Fitch from the 1900s? I don't think so.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20034 From: Steve Blancard Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: Franklin Smoke Repair Advice
Roy,


I've been playing with Franklins for a while now. One thing that helps is to add
ground wire to the smoke unit, running it back to the tender front truck. Franky's
smoke unit counts on the ground connection from the tender draw bar to complete the
circuit, there is no return wire from the smoke unit. This is by design, a loose
connection and can cause intermittent smoke unit operation. I'm assuming you have
the tender hooked up - right ??


Steve Blancard

plotnick wrote:

> All:
> At a flea market this weekend, I picked up the very fragmentary remains of a
> Franklin set. The only really useful part was the engine chassis. It runs
> beautifully, but I can't get it to smoke. There is a clear choo-choo sound.
> I've
> checked the wire resistance and its fine. I've also soaked the inside of the
> smoke unit overnight in WD-40. Still no go. Given the design, I'm hesitant
> to disassemble to get at the nichrome wire and wick and not even sure of the
> best way to do it. Please advise! -Roy
>
> Roy E. Plotnick
> Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences
> University of Illinois at Chicago
> 845 W. Taylor St.
> Chicago, Il .60607
> phone: 312-996-2111 630-252-6377(May-August)
> e-mail: plotnick@...
> homepage: http://www.uic.edu/depts/geos/people/faculty/plotnick.html
>
> "Those who do not know the literature are condemned to repeat it."
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 20035 From: John L. Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: Amazing
Go to thier website - buy a set of 4 brand new ones, maybe not the ones that were on
ebay but the Budds sure look nice for $319.95.

Chris Zizzo wrote:

> Our own Mark Preman just sold two AM sreamliners on E-Bay. I would have
> liked to own them but the bidding got too rich for me when it passed $50 a
> car (and it did so early in the game.) Both are Vista-Domes. One is a GN
> Empire Builder car and the second is an NP Main Street car. Both went to
> the same bidder.
>
> Take a look at them, they're beauties. Before you do, though, take your
> heart pill. Mark got a good price, especially for the GN.
>
> GN: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1740856085
> NP: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1740856617
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20036 From: nasglibrary Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: New Mobley Library Service
All --

I am compiling a list of all 1:64 plans published in Model Railroader.
Thus far I have listed all from Jan. 1937 through Mar. 1949. There are
48 of them, including steam, diesel, electric, narrow-gauge, and
structures.

Copies of the list are available via e-mail at no charge; USPS for 60
cents postpaid.

Dick Karnes, Librarian
Russell M. Mobley Memorial Library
Group: S-Trains Message: 20037 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, June 23, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20038 From: Tom Rolfsmeyer Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: 314 AW only goes forward
Ok guys I need some help I have been working on a 314 AW that only wants
to run in the forward direction. I have checked the following.

fingers all good and contact is good also.
drum is clean and in good condition
wiring looks to be correct except for one finger that is on the top
right side and connected to the rear truck by connection to the chasis.
the engine will run both directions with a tender from a 316
the whistle works but may be spining the wrong way the noise is very
small.
the neutral position is good but the reverse direction seems stalled
like the field coil is not energized correctly.

Any and all diagrams drawing etc. are welcome.

Thanks in advance.

Tom Rolfsmeyer.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20039 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: 314
Sounds like the cab panel is miswired. it is wired for a 5 wire system
since the 316 tender works. It should be wired for a 4 wire system. The
wires to the cab panel should be from left to right: field, brush field,
brush. They are probably brush , field, field, brush. The smoke unit
should be wired to the two brush caps. it probably isn't.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20040 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: 314
Let me modify that response a little. The cab panel from left to right
should be wired field, brush, field brush OR brush, field, brush, field.
Either one will work. You probably only have to swap 2 connections.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20041 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: New operating car
Fellows,

See the photos section, I just uploaded my idea of what MTH should be offering. Yes, it works. It's a tight fit, but looks good to me on an S flat. I've not checked clearences yet, but think it will prove to be too tall with the chopper mounted for my tunnel, but I'll live with that.

jfred



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20042 From: bassflyer Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: New pics....
I up-loaded three new pics into the "Rick Evans" folder at the S-
trains site.

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20043 From: Gary Chidester Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: 312 SIT stuck in neutral
Suggestions on how to get a 312 SIT to move? It smokes really well , but
sits on the track and will not go forward or reverse.

gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 20044 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: Amazing
These are not Budds. They are smooth side domes. AM does not yet make Budd
domes. I have two sets of Budds. I want a GN Empire Builder set. The post
was about how much that particular car, in that particular livery, sold for.
The Budds do not come in Empire Builder paint, however, the Central of
Georgia and Illinois Central schemes are quite similar.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20045 From: Don Thompson Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: Amazing
Dear Chris,
American Models started to make the Budd dome cars in the 80's. The prototype
of the car he made was the GN smooth sided partial dome coach seating 70 passengers
for use on the Empire Builder . The other four smooth sided cars produced by AM
were ACF and Pullman Standard and also Great Northern prototypes for use on the
Empire Builder. The dome car was indeed built by Budd, look at the roof. Or, look
at page 467 of the "1960 Car Builders' Cyclopedia". I think that all of the Empire
Builders car were originally smooth sided.
Don


Chris Zizzo wrote:

> These are not Budds. They are smooth side domes. AM does not yet make Budd
> domes. I have two sets of Budds. I want a GN Empire Builder set. The post
> was about how much that particular car, in that particular livery, sold for.
> The Budds do not come in Empire Builder paint, however, the Central of
> Georgia and Illinois Central schemes are quite similar.
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20046 From: Rick Evans Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Another couple of pics.....
I added another couple of pics,....one is of my AF #956 Monon flatcar that
I had no load for,...put a couple of Matchbox's Model "T" delivery trucks on it....
another pic is of "guys & dolls"...lake people!! Summer must be here!!

Rick.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20047 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys.
: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@a...> wrote:

>I've heard all those fancy "rail sounds". I'll take the AF
>smoke and choo-choo any day. Sometimes you just can't improve upon
>the best.


Well, I wouldn't claim that AF choo-choo couldn't be improved upon,
for instance, by obtaining the proper 4 chug-per-wheel rotation as
opposed to the current 1 chug-per-wheel rotation. But Gilbert's (and
AM's) acoustic sound generation method does avoid the irritating
aspects of current SOTA digital sound systems.

BTW, simply putting a bigger speaker into the system will not
eliminate the problems of digital reproduction. First of all, to be
significant, the increase in speaker size would have to be, oh, say
1000% over the current "standard" (for 0 gauge) 2 inch speaker. An
enclosure of suitable volume (size) would also be needed, which would
be much larger than even a 90' 0 scale boxcar. And we're just talking
steam here. To do diesel sounds adequately (which involves generating
wavelengths of 15 feet or more), you need to have vibrating surfaces
that are on the order of a typical 12 inch woofer in area. (Which is
probably one reason why fake steam sound is more widely accepted than
diesel.)

The real problem with digital train sounds isn't just speaker size,
it's sampling rate. AFAIK, the current systems are only now getting
up to 8 bit, and I'm not sure what the actual rate is, but from what
I've heard, it sure ain't 44KHz. (I'm one of those "golden ear" types
who isn't satisfied with 16 bit 48KHz sampling.)

Nope, until the electronics involved can emit a waveform clean enough
(and that technology will come, given enough time), I'll forego any
investment in digital train sound. I find the sound of wheels on
rails to be more "soothing" anyway.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20048 From: Mike Vana Date: 6/21/2002
Subject: S Gauge Big Steam
After reading all the posts about wanting big
steam locos in S gauge, if you guys had your
choice, what type of loco would it be? And
how much would you be willing to spend for one?
I'm just curious...

I'll try to post a picture of our homemade mallet
in the next day or two. It's more fun than
prototypical, but based on Santa Fe's "Prairie
Mallets", with a hinged boiler.

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20049 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Chris Zizzo <busyboy@o...>wrote:

>My concern was that the 0 guys just got ANOTHER HUGE steamer, and in
>our new offerings, we're still screwing around with Pacifics and
>small early steam era freight engines.

Actually, except for switchers, the Gilbert steamers available are
mostly passenger types. Only the Northerns were built as true "dual
service" engines.

Still, your point is well taken, Chris. Not to do an "I-told-you-so",
but I remember posting something a year or so ago on some NG about
how AM might have made a... um, "weak" decision when picking a
Pacific as the prototype for their first steam loco. I went on about
the greater need for a medium or heavy freight steamer in S, as
opposed to "yet another Pacific" (since Gilbert has already given us
FOUR different Pacifics.) Many disagreed with me then. Has the tide
turned?


>Sarcastic? No, just feeling a little hopeless.

I didn't mean to impugn your integrity, Chris, but in the past you
have been known to kid us, just a little, once in a while... :^)

I too am prone to look wistfully at the many offerings in 0 gauge,
wishing that the same items could be found in S. Lately though, I've
had less time to be distracted by that, what with my new SD60 and
such.


>This announcement was from a dealer, who has one engine allotted to
>him.

ONE engine? Sheesh, sounds like even many 0 gaugers won't be able to
have one of these things. Actually, that type of marketing is one
reason many 0 gaugers are disgusted with Lionel.


>The Odyssey does use a "High Torque Pitman motor." The "Odyssey
>System" is a cruise control for your engines, it is no longer using
>an Odyssey motor.

So the Big L finally abandoned the very centerpiece of the Odyssey
system, the almost-maintenance-free brushless motor. Amazing. How
many years did they fool around with that thing? Three? Five? Maybe
my "co-demonstration" of an SHS switcher during an Odyssey demo at a
TTOS meet of a couple years ago made them reconsider... naaawww.


>You asked: "The 3rd cylinder rod is between the drive wheels, and
>probably wouldn't be visible without turning the loco over. Would
>Lionel go to so much trouble for something that nobody could see
>unless the loco plopped over on its side?"

>Yeah, that's what kind of stuff the 0 guys are getting.

I forgot, 3-rail 0 guys do have more than their share of belly-up
wrecks, heh.


>There ARE scale-sized coal granules on the cab floor, it just wasn't
>mentioned. Pathetic, isn't it?

Are you sure those aren't just debris in the paint? :^)
(I did say "granules", not "chunks" btw.)


>let's all discuss more ways to make the 302 Atlantic
>run smoother. You first, Chuck. (Now, THAT was sarcastic.)

Too busy enjoying my SD60 to worry about smoothing out any of my 5 or
6 Atlantics. And that was definitely NOT sarcastic! :^)


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20050 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
rbubeck327@a... wrote:

>Railsounds 4.0 is just great. The labored chuffing is fun and the
>whistles in the Lionels sound really good these days. The trick is
>to build a well-damped layout (e.g., rubber road bed) and moderate
>the sound level.

That is indeed the trick. One problem: It's been my experience with 3-
rail 0 gaugers that getting them to "moderate the sound level" is
usually a lost cause, even with very well-damped layout modules. Not
that they're not nice guys or anything, it just seems to coincide
with the genetic mechanism that helps them to "tune out" the middle
rail. (That's my theory, anyway.)

A true story:

A few years ago, I was priviledged to participate in a long term show
with the local chapter of Tinplate Trackers. Fun bunch of people. On
one certain day, we had just arrived to begin operations for the day.
Our layout (The C+D System) was positioned near one end of a 50+ foot
long 3-rail layout. Only one 0 guy was there at first, running things
from the end farthest from us, and as usual, he was running a
multiple diesel lash-up with all sound units at full tilt. The din
was not only pain inducing for my wife (who suffers from acute
migranes), but it completely drowned out the sound of my AF steamers,
which were usually closer to us than the 10 feet or so separating us
from the nearest end if his layout. We could hear his diesels no
matter where they were, but we couldn't hear our own Af steamers even
when they were right under our noses. I gently asked him why it was
that he liked to run the volume up so loud, even with nobody else in
the room. He says, "Oh, I like to hear the train even when it's far
away." So, IOW, he simply HAD to hear his diesels over everything
else, even when they were on the opposite side of a backdrop more
than 50 feet away from him. Was he hard of hearing? No, not at the
time (though things could be different now), but it was then that I
began to entertain the notion that 3-railers can be more prone to
extremes that the rest of us where sensate issues are concerned. I
never did get him to turn those things down, and he isn't the only 0
gauger I've seen do this. Ya gotta wonder.


>Most S gaugers hear these engines in venues where levels are cranked
>up and background noise is high.

The background noise is high because engine sounds are cranked way
up. People have to almost scream to carry on a conversation. During
shows, I've noticed room noise decrease dramatically when the digi-
noise stops.


>the Odyssey cruise is a superb operational feature and is addictive.

I can imagine. I really like the cruise control on my car. Not sure I
need it on my trains, though.


>If I can't get my steam engine "fix" in S gauge, I'll go where I
>will be satisfied.

Well, to each his own. I'll devote my limited train budget to
supporting S so that some day, a better steam "fix" might be
available in the right size with the right # of rails.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20051 From: Tom Doherty Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Chris, etal,
Before anybody gets too interested in 3 rail, there is a new theme in the O
gauge market place. 2 RAIL! At the Chicago O gauge show, Atlas had their new
2 rail track and apparently some 2 rail locomotive(s). Lionel and MTH are
apparently also marketing this "NEW" concept. They will offer it in AC so it
will work with the TMCC and the other stuff the 3 rail guys have already
purchased. So, what goes around, comes around! The 3 rail guys finally get
some realistic track with the big guys mass marketing the theme, a new nitch
is created to sell into, and the fall out gives S Gauge a somewhat level
playing field to convert these 3 railers to a more realistic, better size if
they are ready to convert with the mass marketers apparently getting that
concept moving.

Now, can we, the NASG, manufacturers, and individuals, use this opportunity
to really do some good?
Tom D.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
To: <RBubeck327@...>; <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: More toys for the 0 boys


> Bob Bubeck, the guy who wrote the book on Flyer, said:
>
> >The Lionel offering of a Baldwin UP 4-12-2 is the real thing. I've seen
> this
> >engine and it is a beaut!
> >
> >Railsounds 4.0 is just great. The labored chuffing is fun and the
whistles
> in
> >the Lionels sound really good these days.
> >
> >TMCC (or systems like it) are super. I own a number of these engines and
> they are
> >superb and a real "hoot" to operate.
>
>
> Oh great, rub it in, why don'tcha?
>
> I'm thinking that a blackened center rail isn't all that noticeable . . .
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20052 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: Amazing
Don:
When I said "These are not Budds" perhaps I should have phrased it "These
are not THE Budds." In model railroad parlance, we refer to the available
products more than to the prototypes. For example, a distinction would
always be made between Crown and SHS when referring to S-Gauge wooden
reefers so as not to confuse the reader or listener. While some earlier
cars made by AM may have been models of Budd products, the Budd cars, as we
refer to them, are the group of recent offerings by AM, heavy and solid with
detailed interiors. The earlier, much lighter and more scale length cars
produced with smooth sides by AM some years back are referred to as the AM
Streamliners, a term which also could be applied to the recent Budd cars,
but which is not.

I actually have a flyer from AM which details which builders cars are
modeled by each of the five streamliners. I have been told that the Empire
Builder was the first livery for this product. I suppose that was the
reason this car sold for $150. Seems extreme, especially when the two tone
green NP Main Streeter went for half the price. Collectibility rears it's
ugly head, again.

By the way, notice that the winning bidder had already committed to the full
price for the GN (and probably a little more) at the outset of the auction.
None of the other bidders were ever in it. Check the bid history and look
at the dates of the bids. He also only planned to pay about half that for
the NP, but got jacked up a little at the end and had to increase his early
bid a bit. That means that this buyer already had an idea of the market
value of these cars going into the auction. Where is this market value
catalogued? Is there a Greenberg Guide to American Models and S-Helper???

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20053 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Tom D. sez:
>Before anybody gets too interested in 3 rail, there is a new theme in the O
>gauge market place. 2 RAIL! At the Chicago O gauge show, Atlas had their
new
>2 rail track and apparently some 2 rail locomotive(s). Lionel and MTH are
>apparently also marketing this "NEW" concept. . . .
>gives S Gauge a somewhat level
>playing field to convert these 3 railers to a more realistic, better size
if
>they are ready to convert with the mass marketers apparently getting that
>concept moving.

Tom:
I don't think so. If all the guys with three rail decide to go 2 rail,
there will probably be a retrofit system made for existing 3 rail equipment.
Having adopted on of the major selling points of S-gauge, the 0 gaugers will
have solidified their scale as THE one to model, as if it wasn't solid
enough already. This news could kill many potential S gambits being planned
by Big L and Mike Wolf. Smaller size is NOT a selling point to guys getting
older and needing stronger glasses to see finer details.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20054 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: New Mobley Library Service
DIck:
Great idea!
MR did "Paint Shop" articles for many years, also in 1/64. I suppose it was
a good size for a magazine page. In fact, I have been trying to locate one
I saw (probably in the mid 90's) for the Seaboard Orange Blossom diesels.

It would be great to get a collection of these going, too.

Keep up the great work! And thanks!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20055 From: roy inman Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Big steam
what type of loco would it be?

Mike, et al,
Boy Mike, I thought you would never ask :)

For me, a highly detailed, die-cast 4-8-4 Northern with Santa Fe livery
would be first choice-and the accompanying long tender.
Next would be the Union Pacific Challenger, #3985 to mimic the working
prototype (visiting Kansas City this weekend, BTW).
And of course the Big Boy.
Then the whole gamut of 1930's streamlined steam, like the Dreyfus Hudson,
(even though it was NYC-in the face of class, all geographic barriers are
down) and the Santa Fe Blue Goose.
Concerning the issue of modern sound and all the digitized
hyper-sooper-stuff, yes, it gets a little old after 15 minutes or so. What I
do with my Entertrainment modular layout, (which, I blush to confess is
0-gauge three rail), is run the sound at full volume for the first part of
an event, then turn the sound down for the later stages of the event, and
concentrate on letting the attendees operate the accessories, blow the
whistle/horn, etc. When I set it up for the holiday party in the winter, I
run it for brief sessions anyway.
But there is no question that the newer electronic features sell trains. If
Mike's Train House (MTH) had not pushed the envelope, and pushed Lionel as
well, we might not be seeing the amazing resurgance in the larger scale end
of the hobby that we do now. And, for sure we would not have the retro Flyer
accessories being produced, at least not on the scale we have seen in the
last couple of years.
Do I want smoke, and all the bells and whistles in my S-gauge steamers?
Darn right. Will I use them all the time. No, but it sure impresses
visitors of all ages.
How much would I pay?
Since freelance is down, nothing right now.
In "normal" times: $500.00 would be acceptable, but probably not realistic
for the type of detail and features I would want.
$1000.00 or so would be the max for me.
Regards,
Roy Inman
Group: S-Trains Message: 20056 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
In a message dated 6/22/02 3:07:06 AM, eighthmile@... writes:

<< Not to do an "I-told-you-so", but I remember posting something a year or
so ago on some NG about how AM might have made a... um, "weak" decision when
picking a
Pacific as the prototype for their first steam loco. I went on about the
greater need for a medium or heavy freight steamer in S, as opposed to "yet
another Pacific" (since Gilbert has already given us FOUR different
Pacifics.) Many disagreed with me then. >>

Agreed. I've posted so many times, too, Chuck. A USRA Mikado would have been,
for example, a much better choice, IMHO.

<<I too am prone to look wistfully at the many offerings in 0 gauge, wishing
that the same items could be found in S. Lately though, I've had less time to
be distracted by that, what with my new SD60 and such.>>

An SD60 does not even remotely "do it" for me. The only way a Velvetta box on
wheels will be "big steam" is it is hooked up to 120V. <grin>

<<ONE engine? Sheesh, sounds like even many 0 gaugers won't be able to have
one of these things. Actually, that type of marketing is one reason many 0
gaugers are disgusted with Lionel.>>

This is an example of (b) misinformed. Different dealers with different
levels of turnover have various allotments. A small dealer my be allotted one
or two while a large dealer might be allotted, say, eight. I had little
difficulty reserving mine at a fair price to both the dealer and me.

<<Are you sure those aren't just debris in the paint? :^)(I did say
"granules", not "chunks" btw.)>>

You wish. This is an example of (a) sour grapes. Don't kid yourself. I've had
the opportunity to examine and run one of these engines and its a beaut both
in appearance and operation. If this had appeared in S, we would have all
thought we had died and gone to Heaven.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20057 From: srgriggs Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
--- In S-Trains@y..., Carl Tuveson <carl@w...> wrote:
> TMCC? Did somebody say TMCC????
>
> I have been trying to get somebdy else besides me fired up about
putting
> TMCC in FLYER..

> Flyer Rules!!!
>
> Carl
>

I'm building a layout now and am going to use TMCC. It allows you to
greatly simplify your wiring by not having separate circuits for every
electrical device you want to operate. This is important for me
because my layout is sectional so it can be easily moved. I also plan
to convert some restored AF locomotives to operate with TMCC. You can
run them at any speed (multiple locos in the same block doing
different tasks), with the headlight and smoke seeing full voltage.
Plus, as Carl said, you can still run your original AC sequential
reverse unit stuff without modifications (and can even control them
from the wireless handheld control). Too cool.

Scott Griggs
Group: S-Trains Message: 20058 From: bassflyer Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Greenberg's Guide..AM, SHS, Etc.
Chris Zizzo wrote:
**((Where is this market value catalogued? Is there a Greenberg
Guide to American Models and S-Helper???))**


I only have one Greenberg "pocket" price guide,...from 1998,..
and it has SHS and AM prices in it.

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20059 From: srgriggs Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge Big Steam
--- In S-Trains@y..., Mike Vana <amflyer@r...> wrote:
> After reading all the posts about wanting big
> steam locos in S gauge, if you guys had your
> choice, what type of loco would it be? And
> how much would you be willing to spend for one?
> I'm just curious...
>
> I'll try to post a picture of our homemade mallet
> in the next day or two. It's more fun than
> prototypical, but based on Santa Fe's "Prairie
> Mallets", with a hinged boiler.
>
> Mike Vana Omaha, NE.


I'd really like to see a Lima 2-8-4 in S. It was a locomotive that
several railroads had (NKP, C&O, PM, Erie), and is a thoroughly modern
steamer.

Scott Griggs
Group: S-Trains Message: 20060 From: srgriggs Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20061 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Hi all:
Are there any discussion pages, sites, etc. for TMCC which tell what it
is, what kinds of decoders one needs, etc.?
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)

srgriggs wrote:

>--- In S-Trains@y..., Carl Tuveson <carl@w...> wrote:
>
>>TMCC? Did somebody say TMCC????
>>
>>I have been trying to get somebdy else besides me fired up about
>>
>putting
>
>>TMCC in FLYER..
>>
>
>>Flyer Rules!!!
>>
>>Carl
>>
>
>I'm building a layout now and am going to use TMCC. It allows you to
>greatly simplify your wiring by not having separate circuits for every
>electrical device you want to operate. This is important for me
>because my layout is sectional so it can be easily moved. I also plan
>to convert some restored AF locomotives to operate with TMCC. You can
>run them at any speed (multiple locos in the same block doing
>different tasks), with the headlight and smoke seeing full voltage.
>Plus, as Carl said, you can still run your original AC sequential
>reverse unit stuff without modifications (and can even control them
>from the wireless handheld control). Too cool.
>
>Scott Griggs
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20062 From: Bill Lane Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: More FD-2 photos
Hi All,

In the last installment of the FD-2 photo Giveaway Sweepstakes, I present to
you for your downloading pleasure 3 more photos. They are an 8 x 10 600 DPI
file each, so AOL and dial up users will have to wait a little while for the
reward. Download and safe folks. This is a limited time offer, though not
valid in Pennsylvania, New Jersey and parts of Grand Rapids Michigan.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/FD2pose.jpg

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/FD2unload1.jpg

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/FD2unload2.jpg

Enjoy!

Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 20063 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
This is a site that has a lot if info and a dicussion group on TMCC.

http://www.coilcouplers.com/index.html

Carl

-----Original Message-----
From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi [mailto:velapoldi@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2002 11:30 AM
To: srgriggs
Cc: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: More toys for the 0 boys


Hi all:
Are there any discussion pages, sites, etc. for TMCC which tell what it
is, what kinds of decoders one needs, etc.?
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)

srgriggs wrote:

>--- In S-Trains@y..., Carl Tuveson <carl@w...> wrote:
>
>>TMCC? Did somebody say TMCC????
>>
>>I have been trying to get somebdy else besides me fired up about
>>
>putting
>
>>TMCC in FLYER..
>>
>
>>Flyer Rules!!!
>>
>>Carl
>>
>
>I'm building a layout now and am going to use TMCC. It allows you to
>greatly simplify your wiring by not having separate circuits for every
>electrical device you want to operate. This is important for me
>because my layout is sectional so it can be easily moved. I also plan
>to convert some restored AF locomotives to operate with TMCC. You can
>run them at any speed (multiple locos in the same block doing
>different tasks), with the headlight and smoke seeing full voltage.
>Plus, as Carl said, you can still run your original AC sequential
>reverse unit stuff without modifications (and can even control them
>from the wireless handheld control). Too cool.
>
>Scott Griggs
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 20064 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1493
As an insider in the sound business I can tell you that
CD quality (44.1 KHz 16 bit) doesn't make it in professional
circles either. Hollywood has only recently started archiving
on digital since it has gone to 96 KHz 24 bit. In the late 80''s
my engineers could easily hear the difference between 50 KHz
and 100 KHz but would sometimes prefer lower sampling rates
for effect on broadcast. What the public hears as an improvement
with digital is the lack of noise and speed fluctuation common
to sloppy analog. Well done analog is wonderful.

All that said, I see the real problem as trying to make a real
live recording sound right coming from a toy train. It is out of
proportion. More often that not a sound effect heard in a movie
or a television or radio commercial is not the real thing. For
example, a pants rip may be close mic'd masking tape being
pulled from a roll.

Most tender shells are not well designed acoustic chambers.
I recently installed a Dallee sound system in a Flyer PA. It's
almost impossible to fit the sound board in and leaves little
room for the speaker. I improved the speaker by mounting and
sealing in an AF container (gondola load). I used smoke wick
material as a liner and an Erector bracket mount to keep the
Gilbert "feel".

Creating the enclosure and eliminating the back wave from
interfering with the front output of the speaker greatly improved
the sound. The distance from the speaker to the first reflective
surface also effects the sound quality due to cancellations
and "comb" filtering effects. I will be experimenting with adding
mass and acoustical absorbers to the sound system container
(tender or PB unit) if I get time.

For now I have probably rambled too long. --- Nick

BTW - Caboose hobbies offers the heaviest speakers I have seen
that will fit Flyer. I bought both rectangular and round while in Denver
recently but they are waiting to be installed.


At 09:51 AM 6/22/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 06:24:33 -0000
> From: "jahoozdumm" <eighthmile@...>
>Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys.
>
>: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@a...> wrote:
>
> >I've heard all those fancy "rail sounds". I'll take the AF
> >smoke and choo-choo any day. Sometimes you just can't improve upon
> >the best.
>
>
>Well, I wouldn't claim that AF choo-choo couldn't be improved upon,
>for instance, by obtaining the proper 4 chug-per-wheel rotation as
>opposed to the current 1 chug-per-wheel rotation. But Gilbert's (and
>AM's) acoustic sound generation method does avoid the irritating
>aspects of current SOTA digital sound systems.
>
>BTW, simply putting a bigger speaker into the system will not
>eliminate the problems of digital reproduction. First of all, to be
>significant, the increase in speaker size would have to be, oh, say
>1000% over the current "standard" (for 0 gauge) 2 inch speaker. An
>enclosure of suitable volume (size) would also be needed, which would
>be much larger than even a 90' 0 scale boxcar. And we're just talking
>steam here. To do diesel sounds adequately (which involves generating
>wavelengths of 15 feet or more), you need to have vibrating surfaces
>that are on the order of a typical 12 inch woofer in area. (Which is
>probably one reason why fake steam sound is more widely accepted than
>diesel.)
>
>The real problem with digital train sounds isn't just speaker size,
>it's sampling rate. AFAIK, the current systems are only now getting
>up to 8 bit, and I'm not sure what the actual rate is, but from what
>I've heard, it sure ain't 44KHz. (I'm one of those "golden ear" types
>who isn't satisfied with 16 bit 48KHz sampling.)
>
>Nope, until the electronics involved can emit a waveform clean enough
>(and that technology will come, given enough time), I'll forego any
>investment in digital train sound. I find the sound of wheels on
>rails to be more "soothing" anyway.
>
>
>Chuck F.
>
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20065 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge Big Steam
Guys and Gals,
A good first effort would be the PRR (Standard Railroad of the World) M-1 &
M-1a
4-8-2. Used systemwide, but primarily west of Harrisburg. These locomotives
were built as dual-service, used for both passenger and freight, with their
original tenders and also the PRR's "coast to coast" behemoth.
The tenders also came with and without the "dog box" shelter for the head
end brakeman. The "dog box" was, by the way heated via the tender water
heating circuit, controlled by the brakeman with a valve in the shack.
SO, four distinct (minimum) engines could be offered with one die set.
The PRR K-5 was apparently a test bed for the M-1, which followed shortly
thereafter with many of the K-5's features.
Livin' on the Keystone Main,
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20066 From: IronHorse Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge Big Steam
Years ago someone took 2 challengers and made a "Big Boy" out of them.
He made it so the drive wheels were on separate frames. The frames allowed
the drivers to pivot left and right. This loco could run on AF track. It was a
real good looking loco.

Roger Hinds

Mike Vana wrote:

> After reading all the posts about wanting big
> steam locos in S gauge, if you guys had your
> choice, what type of loco would it be? And
> how much would you be willing to spend for one?
> I'm just curious...
>
> I'll try to post a picture of our homemade mallet
> in the next day or two. It's more fun than
> prototypical, but based on Santa Fe's "Prairie
> Mallets", with a hinged boiler.
>
> Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 20067 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge Big Steam--OOPS
The M-1's were used primarily EAST of Altoona.
Livin' on the Keystone Main
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20068 From: Mike Vana Date: 6/22/2002
Subject: Homemade S gauge Mallet picture
Since I promised a picture of our homemade Mallet,
a scan of the picture of it can be found here:

http://amflyer.home.radiks.net/~amflyer/htdocs/af4662.jpg

It's made from two AF CNW type Pacifics, with a hinge in
the middle (actually a nut and bolt). It doesn't look
bad going around curves. Only the rear set of drivers is
powered, and "one of these days" I'll pipe the smoke
from the smoke unit out to the stack. Right now I think
that it needs to be refilled with smoke fluid anyway.

It is freelanced, but the Santa Fe had similar 4-4-6-2
and 2-6-6-2 prototypes. This is a combination - a 4-6-6-2.
The only prototype 4-6-6-2's that I know of were a class
of SP cab forwards. A friend who works with boilers
claims you can't have a hinged boiler, so I showed him the
article Trains magazine did many years ago on the Santa Fe
engines. I can't find the article now, or remember how
they worked.

Hopefully the S Helper Service 2-8-0 will be out soon,
but if anybody else makes a new steam engine, I would
like to see another one with a two wheel lead truck,
like a 2-6-2, 2-8-2, 2-8-4 or something like that.

I have often wondered why AF never made an S gauge steamer
with a two wheel lead truck, especially after seeing all
the O gauge ones they made. I got lucky once at a swap meet,
and found apparently scratchbuilt steamers - a CB&Q 2-6-0
and CGW 2-8-0. I could only afford one and bought the
2-6-0, as it was in better shape. Unfortunately, it doesn't
run well on AF track. It tolerates the Gargraves, though.

While S gaugers are clamoring for big steam, the O scale
(two-rail) guys want smaller ones, and a diecast 2-8-0 is
due out soon. Having O scale too (and H-O) I'm looking
forward to that.

Hope you enjoy the picture.

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20070 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
rbubeck327@a... wrote:

>A USRA Mikado would have been, for example, a much better choice,
>IMHO.

Yep, a USRA Mikado would have been ideal, IMO too.


>An SD60 does not even remotely "do it" for me.

As I said, to each his own. The SD60 in S will "do it" for me much
better that ANYthing in 0 gauge, even what runs on the correct # of
rails.


>The only way a Velvetta box on wheels will be "big steam" is it is
>hooked up to 120V. <grin>

But, but, one reason I like the SD60 is that it is NOT "big steam."
It's contemporary big diesel!


>><<ONE engine? Sheesh, sounds like even many 0 gaugers won't be able
>>to have one of these things. Actually, that type of marketing is
>>one reason many 0 gaugers are disgusted with Lionel.>>

>This is an example of (b) misinformed. <snip> I had little
>difficulty reserving mine at a fair price to both the dealer and me.

If so, the misinformation is coming from several 0 gaugers I know who
have had trouble getting what they ordered in the past.
Unfortunately, your good experience is not universal. It remains to
be seen if everybody who orders one of these marvels has their order
filled. Hopefully, they will.


>><<Are you sure those aren't just debris in the paint? :^)(I did say
>>"granules", not "chunks" btw.)>>

>You wish.

I do? Why would I "wish" for sloppiness on Lionel's part? It's beside
the point, anyway. 1/48 scale "granules" would not be visible in flat
black paint. (IOW, it's a JOKE!)


>This is an example of (a) sour grapes.

RB, how can you possibly know WHAT I'm feeling in this instance? Fact
is, I'm quite glad that 0 guys are getting nice things. I don't
subscribe to the Zero-Sum scenario ("More for them, less for us, and
vice-versa.")


>I've had the opportunity to examine and run one of these engines and
>its a beaut both in appearance and operation. If this had appeared
>in S, we would have all thought we had died and gone to Heaven.

Again, to each his own. Personally, I have much greater expectations
of Heaven.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20071 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Big Steam
We currently have a six driver chassis in the AM steamer. Your Blue Goose
and Dreyfuss Hudson and any of the other streamliners that we have seen in 0
can be crafted from that platform. With some modification, many ten-wheeler
variants can also be produced (4-6-0's).

With the new SHS 8 driver platform we will have the foundation for
Northerns, Niagaras and many other bigger locos. Hopefully, Don will be
able to build these and we will be supportive by buying them. Problem is,
the first up, a Consolidation, would not have been my first choice. It
might be for many of you who operate in the wood reefer era that Don has
been building for, and that engine is a perfect choice to complement the
period of cars that SHS has produced (40' steel rebuilts, PS-2s, outside
braced boxes and hoppers and billboard cars).

My interest in steam has always been the last generation, the behemoths;
huge powerhouses on wheels able to haul hundreds of loaded cars at highline
speed. That's what has finally been produced in 0, but S is dragging its
feet. For how much longer will all this stuff be produced? How much older
will I be when it finally is? I'd like to play with these toys while I can
still lift them, or hear them . . . or even see them.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20072 From: Don Thompson Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Re: Why a 2-8-0
Dear Chris,
Reasons why we picked the 2-8-0:

AF never built a 2-8-0
S does not have a mass produced 2-8-0
half of all steam engines built were 2-8-0s
The PRR had more 2-8-0 than the AT&SF had steam engines
The B&O E-27as lasted until 1957, the era the majority of people want to see
models produced.
You need to crawl before you can run. With no trailing truck, we thought this
would be one less thing to go wrong. Our original choice was the 0-6-0, but as you
can see from the above reasons, we decided on the 2-8-0
Don

PS Re: Billboard reefers, Our little 1926 freight car has sold twice as well as
anything else we have ever produced.

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20073 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Re: Why a 2-8-0
Hey Don:
I was not taking a shot. You had good reasons for picking what you did and
I do realize that many modelers work in that 1920s - 30s era. I prefer the
later steam engines, the ones that were still in service all the way to the
1960s. I'm only 54. That's my era.

Hopefully, what I said will prove to be true; that the 8 driver platform
will become the foundation for future 8 driver engine projects including
some of the later, greater steam engines. I know, however, that it will be
economically expedient for you to explore the many Consolidation variants
first because they will require fewer modifications to the basic design.

I have a request. I'd like a Niagara for my 60th. birthday; September 11,
2007. Can you arrange that?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20074 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
In a message dated 6/23/02 2:56:26 AM, eighthmile@... writes:

<< >An SD60 does not even remotely "do it" for me.

As I said, to each his own. The SD60 in S would "do it" for me much better
that ANYthing in 0 gauge, even what runs on the correct # of rails. >>

Primarily, this string concerned the availability of big steam in 0 and the
lack of same in S, Chuck. You are not paying attention. An SD-whatever is
not what many of us are hoping and looking for in S (or any other) gauge.
Loving steam engines of any type and doing new S gauge is an exercise in
extreme frustration. Some sublimate their desires, while others like me,
recognize the situation in the marketplace and elect to do more than one
gauge -- it's a pastime, not a religion. A great benefit in doing so, by the
way, is that one considerably widens one's circle of friends in the hobby.
:-))!

Speaking of modern diesel-electrics, there is the plethora of new modern
motive power available for 0 in the $300 -- $350 range. Putting the rail count
aside for the moment, these engines feature for feature put AM's diesels to
shame (two motors, scale detail, CC, Sounds, smoke, Electrocouplers, easy CC
lash-ups, etc.). Maybe you should be demanding more, too.

Well, enough of this. Think I'll go run some big steam and modern diesel. :-)

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20075 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
In a message dated 6/22/02 12:30:16 PM, velapoldi@... writes:

<< Hi all:
Are there any discussion pages, sites, etc., for TMCC which tell what it is,
what kinds of decoders one needs, etc.? Rance Velapoldi (Norway) >>

Rance,

Oddly enough, gaining information on TMCC is a bit of a chaotic exercise.
And, please beware that you are entering the zero gauge world. Here are some
suggestions:

1. Log on to www.ogaugerr.com and from there to the OGR web community. This
is one of the finest model railroading bulletin boards around. There are
specific subsections on Lionel's TMCC and MTH's DCS.
2. There are two instructional videos of value: Lionel's No. 6-14187 and 0
Gauge Modeling Railroading's Vol. 1 and 2 Guide to Trainmaster. I do not know
if these will play in EU standard VCRs.
3. There is a nice little summary in Alan Miller's "Getting Started with
Lionel Trains", but suggesting you buy a whole book on Lionel is a bit much.

Hope this helps.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20076 From: jfred436 Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: More photos
I moved the helicopter to a new folder, so see folder "jfred". I also
have my version of the auto carrier there.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20077 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: New poll for S-Trains
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
S-Trains group:

If a local hobby shop were to start
selling new s-gauge products, would you
be willing to pay suggested retail for
a piece, even if you could buy it at
20% off online?

o pay retail at local shop?
o buy for 20% off online


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/surveys?id=934370

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20078 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, June 23, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20079 From: David Dewey Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Regarding the New poll for S-Trains
WHAT "local hobby shop"?? Doesn't exist around here!
S'
David D. in the rr hobby wilderness of N. CA.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20080 From: Steve Blancard Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: New S loco, a 2-6-0 Mogul
Ok, I know most will disagree with me, but I'd like to see a 2-6-0 Mogul
of the 1875-1885 period. The mogul was the first really successful
engine to supercede the venerable 4-4-0 American that reigned supreme
from the 1840s - 1870s. The 4-4-0 was a marvelous engine design for the
quickly built and often rough railroads of this period. But as railroad
growth exploded after the Civil War, larger and heavier trains
developed. The 4-4-0 was soon taxed to its limit. The Mogul increased
tractive effort by over 50% yet could easily handle the rough trackwork
and steep grades. By 1875 the Mogul was the "new kid on the block" that
was rapidly displacing the American type. The Mogul was the work horse
that expanded the railroads across America.

By 1875, the period of ornately decorated engines was on the decline,
but were still common. A new Mogul of the late 19th century period in
"S" would offer many opportunities for a variety of modeling efforts.
An engine of this type could be colorful, nicely detailed and could
easily and correctly be used as a freight or passenger engine. With
Bachman's early style ON30 freight and passenger cars readily available
at a reasonable price, rolling stock is not a problem.

Lets face it, there are lots of big black 20th century steamers out
there. AF made a nice variety, but by no means all of them. I have
nothing against a modern company filling the gap that AF missed. But
the late 19th century is a wonderful, colorful and exciting period of
railroad history that just begs to be modeled.

At the next train show run a Franklin Frontiersman train and a Pacific
or Hudson train on your modular layout. Ask the little kids who's eyes
are wide open and jaws are dropped - "which train do you like better?".
Most of the time the Franklin wins. Imagine the delight of small and
large children alike, at the sight of a nicely detailed, colorful early
Mogul with smoke, working "oil" headlamp and a nice old time
consist!

A pipe dream ? Probably. Most manufacturers fear that everyone wants
big black behemoths and are afraid to commit scarce resources to a
mostly forgotten period engine. But it is nice to dream!

Steve Blancard
...now back to my custom Franklin project...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20081 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Re: Regarding the New poll for S-Trains
David David David
What am I going to do with you. You have all the new AM, SHS, and several other
brands of S just down the highway from you.
I even let you play with it---when you behave that is.

How easily they forget.
Howard
Howard' S Trains

>WHAT "local hobby shop"?? Doesn't exist around here!
>S'
>David D. in the rr hobby wilderness of N. CA.
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>
>
>
_______________________________________________________________________
Internet Access, Shared & Dedicated Web Hosting.
Colocation and Domain Name Registration at http://www.lanset.net
Group: S-Trains Message: 20082 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: new locos
Guys: if you want a 2-6-0 or a 2-6-6-0 or a 2-6-6-6-0, build it yourself.
It's not that hard, and is much more satisfying than buying one. Form a
cooperative to get basic parts and share info.

i would like to remind you that S is a minority gauge and it looks like it
will always be one. We'd like to take over the world, but it's not gonna
happen. Therefore we have to roll our own, and we have to cooperate.

S used to be the builder's gauge. We have been spoiled by the recent
offerings, but maybe it's time to refocus on scratch building kitbashing
and so forth. That is the basic nature of S. It's never going to be a
consumer's gauge.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20083 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Re: Why a 2-8-0
Don said:
>Reasons why we picked the 2-8-0:
> AF never built a 2-8-0
> S does not have a mass produced 2-8-0
> half of all steam engines built were 2-8-0s
> The PRR had more 2-8-0 than the AT&SF had steam engines
> The B&O E-27as lasted until 1957, the era the majority of people want
to see
> models produced.


Since my previous reply, I spent the day running errands and lifting heavy
boxes (what men are good for). My wife is moving from her teaching
assignment and she has amassed a prodigious amount of junk, which is now all
ensconced in cardboard and costing me $129 a month to store at Public
Storage. Guess who got to put it there.

All of this mindless labor left my gray matter time to ponder the great
mysteries and I have come to these conclusions:

It matters not at all to me how popular the prototype engine was with the
railroads. Nor do I care that this was the engine that dominated steam for
two decades or any other prototypical consideration. I realize that it
means something to someone, but not to me. My reasoning will follow.

I don't care that S-Gauge is short a particular engine and what Gilbert made
or did not make has no influence on any buying decision of mine.

The last point, about eras of steam engine are well taken, but again, it's
really irrelevant to me.

Here's why: (BTW, I speak only for me. I am probably a minority viewpoint,
but I doubt I am a minority of one.)

I'm a high-railer. I like to run the trains. I am not a scaler nor a
timetable operator, so I am not terribly concerned with prototypical
operation. I am already forgiving the toy flanges and couplers. (I could
never concern myself with Proto64 interests in modifying scale flanges to
accurate contours.) That some people find these aspects interesting is only
peripherally important because ALL interest in model railroading is good for
me, ultimately.

So, some guys who want to model the Havensuch RR just as it was on September
14, 1940 at 4:32 in the afternoon as the late mail arrived at Sumpinorudder
Station can now finally do so because, as we all know, the HRR only ran
Consolidations and up 'til now, it was brass or HO for them.

I run Santa Fe PA's in blue and yellow warbonnet paint on the same tracks as
Amtrak Superliners. B&Y was only painted on one set of PAs and that was for
a promotional tour. When that set returned home, it was re-painted Red and
Silver. Amtrak wasn't even a glimmer of an idea at that time. In fact, I
have more PAs running now than ever ran in prototype.

I wanted a wide-vision caboose in Union Pacific armour yellow. You won't
make that car because you don't believe in building out of prototype. But
my layout is filled with non-prototypical equipment. Just run down the
Flyer roster and pick a few dozen. And I've got New Haven Pacifics dropping
connecting passengers off to change for UP trains. Where did that ever
happen? Can't I have my caboose?

This issue would never be raised in 0 gauge, because of the third rail.
That ever present reminder that the trains are just toys forever separates
the scalers from the railers. 0 got popular because of Lionel. S-gauge
comes from another bent. It started out scale and got perverted by Gilbert
toys, albeit somewhat scale, but still toys. S keeps hanging on to that
scale image, that it's Some Serious Scale Sumthin' or other.

I don't care what railroading was like in the thirties. I wasn't there.
I'm not a historian. I want to play with my toys and re-create 10 great
minutes I had under a Christmas tree in 1951. I want to make my Flyer
catalog dreams not only come true but blow themselves to oblivion with
amazing bells and whistles and huge articulated steam engines. If I grew up
a Lionel kid, I'd be doing that right now, but I grew up a Flyer kid, so
I've got people telling me that the engine that came around the corner at
4:33 on that chilly afternoon in 1940 was a mogul and so that's what I
should have.

If scale is so important, how come scalers have layouts only 5 to 10 miles
long? At that length, a doodlebug pulling two boxcars would handle
everything you need. You sure don't need sleeper cars.

If historical accuracy is such a focus, how come there isn't an angry mob of
unemployed guys trying to breakdown the yard gate? Does your yard have a
sign that says "Not Hiring!" Speaking of outside braced boxcars, where are
the strings of empties filled with downtrodden men hitching a ride to
California to pick vegetables? You could have a Preiser version of the
local sheriff and some yard bulls beating them with truncheons and telling
them that they are "less than men."

If detail is a consideration, all your engines should be weathered to hell
and gone for lack of maintenance. The Depression was tough on everybody.

People who remember those times as rosy are really remembering how folks
pulled together against a common foe; like in the war. Whether it was
hunger or Nazis, there was a camaraderie of spirit that drove Americans and
that good feeling is what we choose to remember. When we model those times
and make them look Utopian, we are revising history, not reflecting it, just
as we are giving an impression of track length, not duplicating it.

I, however, am not driven at all to model real railroads. My interest
begins and ends in toy trains (not that I don't like real trains. I do.)
More specifically, my interest has always been in S-Gauge. I'm a dyed in
the wool Flyer boy, no matter how much I bad mouth my alma mater.
To me, American Models, SHS and all the others, including Lionel Flyer, are
just a single unit extension to what was started in 1946 in New Haven.

Now. I want my damned UP wide vision caboose. And I want some big
ass-kicking steam engines. I don't care about curve radius. I care that it
be a prototypical model (not the "Phantom" or any crap like that), but I may
run it with equipment it never saw back in the day.

I know I'm not alone in this. Remember, this is the USA, but my layout is
in the USCZ.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20084 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Re new locos
Hi all, kit bashing is the way to go for articulated. Thanks to Paul,
there will be a how to article on my 4-6-6-4 challenger project but I
need to get on the ball and type more text for the pictures I sent
him. (Sorry Paul)
Anyhow, tonight looks like a good night to get caught up on it.
As for an update: Money has been tight so I haven't done a whole lot
more on the beast I got the valve gear kinks worked out on the rear
chassis and the front is next. I found a nice Northern tender shell
on ebay and I need to find a base with wheels and all of the hand
rails for it to make it complete. I'm also going to pick up a can
motor for it and I'm still reasearching the fan type smoke unit I want
to use.
As soon as I get some spare $$$ I'll start working on things again.
As for the how to article I'll get Paul the rest of the text and give
him the ok to post what's done.

TTYL
Fred (the flyer chopper)
Group: S-Trains Message: 20085 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Trains for sell
Hi Guys,
I listed some Engines & stuff on E-bay today. If interested
go to search & by seller look up: anormal1@.... If you are on this list
& final buyer let me know & there will be no shipping. Also these have not
been listed on the pages as yet. So you guys can have first shot. Also if
you see something you want. contact me. Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20086 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/23/2002
Subject: Re: ...Now. I want my damned UP wide vision caboose.
Don sez:
>Have you thought about learning to paint and decal?


Did I mention I'm an RTR kinda guy?
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20087 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 6/24/2002
Subject: Re: More toys for the 0 boys
Of course, if one has the money, one can find some S gauge available in
big steam in brass - if you can afford ~$2500 for a single engine. I
guess one thinks of it as an investment while the cast metal and plastic
locos become something like a car, only downhill in value unless it is
an antique, etc. But I agree, I would scrape up something like $800 if
a big steam engine were available - although I don't even have a clue if
this would be enough!
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)

rbubeck327@... wrote:

>In a message dated 6/23/02 2:56:26 AM, eighthmile@... writes:
>
><< >An SD60 does not even remotely "do it" for me.
>
>As I said, to each his own. The SD60 in S would "do it" for me much better
>that ANYthing in 0 gauge, even what runs on the correct # of rails. >>
>
>Primarily, this string concerned the availability of big steam in 0 and the
>lack of same in S, Chuck. You are not paying attention. An SD-whatever is
>not what many of us are hoping and looking for in S (or any other) gauge.
>Loving steam engines of any type and doing new S gauge is an exercise in
>extreme frustration. Some sublimate their desires, while others like me,
>recognize the situation in the marketplace and elect to do more than one
>gauge -- it's a pastime, not a religion. A great benefit in doing so, by the
>way, is that one considerably widens one's circle of friends in the hobby.
>:-))!
>
>Speaking of modern diesel-electrics, there is the plethora of new modern
>motive power available for 0 in the $300 -- $350 range. Putting the rail count
> aside for the moment, these engines feature for feature put AM's diesels to
>shame (two motors, scale detail, CC, Sounds, smoke, Electrocouplers, easy CC
>lash-ups, etc.). Maybe you should be demanding more, too.
>
>Well, enough of this. Think I'll go run some big steam and modern diesel. :-)
>
>RB
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20088 From: pieter_roos Date: 6/24/2002
Subject: Re: Why a 2-8-0
Hi Chris;

Unfortunately, a lot of this boils down to "I want what I WANT, who
cares about practicality".

Don is certainly not so concerned over prototype that he won't paint a
caboose for UP just because they didn't have one exactly like it. His
minimum run is 300 cars, the cost of that is more than that niffty new
Lionel steamer but less than a typical new car. If you believe the
market is there, talk to Don and get the check ready (after all, if
you are right, you'll sell out of the cars and actually make a
profit...)

Big steam is more of a problem. Don't blame the scale guys, a lot of
them like big steam too (and many of them have bought big brass
engines to prove it). A significant part of the S market won't buy
anything that doesn't run on original Flyer curves, and that excludes
a lot of big steamers. Again, if 100 guys each put up a grand (with
the knowledge that they probably need to come up with some more before
the dust settles), I'm pretty sure they could get somebody's attention
toward making a larger steam engine. First, all 100 need to agree on
one locomotive, desired features, etc. Then see how much more it takes
to make it fully happen. It's really easy to tell the manufacturers to
risk THEIR time and money.

Pieter

--- In S-Trains@y..., Chris Zizzo <busyboy@o...> wrote:
<SNIP>
> More specifically, my interest has always been in S-Gauge. I'm a
dyed in
> the wool Flyer boy, no matter how much I bad mouth my alma mater.
> To me, American Models, SHS and all the others, including Lionel
Flyer, are
> just a single unit extension to what was started in 1946 in New
Haven.
>
> Now. I want my damned UP wide vision caboose. And I want some big
> ass-kicking steam engines. I don't care about curve radius. I care
that it
> be a prototypical model (not the "Phantom" or any crap like that),
but I may
> run it with equipment it never saw back in the day.
>
> I know I'm not alone in this. Remember, this is the USA, but my
layout is
> in the USCZ.
>
> Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20089 From: roy inman Date: 6/24/2002
Subject: Consumer gauge
"It's never going to be a
consumer's gauge."

So wrote Tom Jarcho in a recent post.
Well, the S-Gaugian, SHS, AM and LAF fooled me.
I was under the impression that "an entire layout can now be constructed
using only RTR equipment," according to the the text accompanying the photos
in the SG December (I believe it was December?) issue. Don and friends had
constructed a layout for a local Chicago bank in three weeks using SHS track
and RTR engines, rolling stock.
Tom is certainly correct when he says S is a minority gauge. But in this era
of crashing Berlin Walls, peace to war literally overnight, huge
corporations going from black ink to red ink in a nanosecond, I would not go
so far as to say it will always be a minority gauge. Of course that could be
a large minority and we could still have the numbers to make production of a
die-cast articulated feasable for a manufacturer.
And yes, I am well aware that for $2500 or so, one can purchase a large
steam engine in brass.
But my budget would place me in the $400-$1000 range, and I would have to
ask for delivery in a Sears box (as in "no honey, it' s not another train;
it's just a replacement Sears part") :)
I am with Chris-another of those "RTR guys," in my case because of time
limitations.
Just FYI, in the RC airplane hobby, manufacturers are now making more and
more ARF (almost ready to fly) and RTF (ready to fly) planes. They realized
the time crunch many are in these days, and the desire of many for their
toys to be plug and play. Of course the numbers in the RC hobby are greater
than in S, but there are minorities within the model airplane hobby, like
U-control and indoor freeflight. Not a perfect parallel but food for
thought.
Roy Inman



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20090 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 6/24/2002
Subject: Re: Why a 2-8-0
In a message dated 6/24/02 12:12:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pieter_roos@... writes:

<< A significant part of the S market won't buy anything that doesn't run on
original Flyer curves, and that excludes a lot of big steamers. Again, if 100
guys each put up a grand (with the knowledge that they probably need to come
up with some more before the dust settles), I'm pretty sure they could get
somebody's attention
toward making a larger steam engine. >>

Speaking for myself, I do have K-line wide curves on my Gilbert layout. These
could accommodate many larger steam engines. In the matter of "big steam", I
would be happy to see Mikados, Niagaras, PRR Mountains and Decapods, etc. for
starters. It would not have to be an articulated engine. I also believe that
if the reason to use somewhat broader radius curves was there, people would
build layouts accordingly.

As for advance deposits, I've been disappointed in the past (e.g., the AM
Pacific, SHS WP F-3s with the wrong colored trucks and tanks, etc.). I'd be
very reluctant to pay serious coin up front without seeing what I would be
getting. Sorry, but once burnt, twice shy.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20091 From: David Dewey Date: 6/24/2002
Subject: Re: Why a 2-8-0
Hey RB!! I just got a nice package (at no added cost) from SHS with the
correct colored tanks and trucksides for my WP F3s! So now they will really
look cool on my CZ!! Now if they'd just been the 805A & B. . .
S'
David D.
PS the loco I want? An SP Mogul, M-6 class. (how's that for a specific
desire?) Of course a GS with skirts and daylight colors wouldn't hurt!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20092 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/24/2002
Subject: Re: Why a 2-8-0
Pieter sez:
>Unfortunately, a lot of this boils down to "I want what I WANT, who
>cares about practicality".

Pete, if you said that to me in 1972, I would agree that I was just being a
little whiny child. But in 2002, the guys who model in 0 gauge have all
this and more. There is a glut of motive power available in their gauge.
They are now producing obscure track inspection cars and one-off
experimental locos because they are RUNNING OUT OF IDEAS!!!

Can I interest you in an S gauge Atlantic? I have several, each under a
million miles. No? Are you sure?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20093 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 6/24/2002
Subject: Re: Why a 2-8-0 (WPs)
In a message dated 6/24/02 1:55:40 PM, djdewey@... writes:

<< Hey RB!! I just got a nice package (at no added cost) from SHS with the

correct colored tanks and trucksides for my WP F3s! So now they will really

look cool on my CZ!! >>

I have them, too, and have installed them. They make a TREMENDOUS improvement
in the appearance of the WP's. I also had to worry through a few other
teething problems with these engines (like blown boards and speakers). The
engines now look and run great with my Flyonel CZ cars. The folks at SHS were
very responsive and friendly about the problems. The down side is that it
took about 11 months to get the correct trucksides and tank parts.

The point that I should have made more clear is that if I had not had an
advance purchase deposit on the engines and had not put my dealer through the
work of preordering them plus an extra B unit, I would have held off buying
them until the appearance questions were rectified during normal production.
Advance deposits commit one to buying something one has not seen with the
attendant risk.

Hopes this clarifies.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20094 From: Don Thompson Date: 6/24/2002
Subject: Re: Sears House
Could the person that had asked if we had any extra DSL Sears houses
please contact us. We were lucky enough to get a few more and can take
additional orders.
Don

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20095 From: Paul Yorke Date: 6/24/2002
Subject: Interactive Website
Hello S Folks here is an update on the interactive S-Trains site.

I know there is some confusion about this new site, and this note is an
attempt at clearing up some
of that confusion.

Here are some questions.....
1) What is the point of the new site?
2) Is the new site a replacement for Yahoo?
3) Is the new site a replacement for the old S-Trains.com?
4) Why do I need to login to the new site?
5) What can I do to help?

Here are the answers....
1) What is the point of the new site?
I think it is great, why? because it is interactive.. It allows all of
us to become involved with
providing content for the site. Some of the features...
A) FAQ section that allows you to ask questions (I'm looking for folks
to help with the answers)
B) S-Trains Forum, a 'threaded' topic section that allows you to express
your opinion on any S
related topics and allows others to comment on your opinion.
C) Calendar - Submit your events, local, regional, national - lets hear
them
D) Weblinks - the new site has about 300, make sure it has your
favorite, you can submit them directly to the site,
no more depending on 'old paul'.
E) User Created web pages, for those who want to share their pictures
and text with the rest of us.
F) Announcements - for club events, new products, S developments,
Milestones etc. (These are submitted by you)
G) Surveys & Polls - we have not used this feature yet, but I am open to
your ideas.
H) Site Stats - See if others have found your favorite link - ore read
the announcement you submitted.

2) Is the new site a replacement for Yahoo?
It could be, but at this time Yahoo is doing OK. But if the price of
Yahoo goes up, or the adds get worse, we could make the move.

3) Is the new site a replacement for the old S-Trains.com?
No , but I like the fact that others can help me keep the content new
and fresh on this new site.

4) Why do I need to login to the new site?
Only if you want to contribute content, and that is needed to keep a lid
on folks that contribute.
If people need to give me their e-mail address they are less likely to
contribute inappropriate content

5) What can I do to help?
A) Log in , have fun, contribute content.
B) If you would like to assist with answering FAQs or other Admin duties
let me know.

If yoou have questions or comments, Please let me know - yorke@...

Thanks , Paul
Group: S-Trains Message: 20096 From: Paul Yorke Date: 6/24/2002
Subject: Cleveland NASG Convention -Pizza Night?
For those list members going to Cleveland for the convention...
Any of you list guys want to set aside a night for 'Online Buddy' Pizza
Night?
Any ideas which night would be best?
We have done it in the past, and it's been great fun.
Thanks, Paul
Group: S-Trains Message: 20097 From: aglorince Date: 6/24/2002
Subject: magazine backissue over stock sale
i have backissues of following magazines available.

3/16"Scale may 90- july 92 30% off cover price.

CTC BOARD Illustrated mar 1988 -Dec 2000 20% off cover price.
jan 2001 through current issue are still at cover.

Mainline Modeler april 1989- dec 2000 20% off of cover price.
Jan 2001 through current available at full cover.

Rail Model Journal Sep 90 through dec 2000 20% off cover price.
Jan 2001 through current issue at full cover.

S Gaugian may 1988 through dec 2000 20% off cover price.
Jan 2001 through current issue available at full cover.

S/Sn3 modeler april 95 through march 99 30% off cover price.

I will pay shipping by least expensive rate (bound printed matter).

Quntaties are limited. not all issues are still available.

e-mail your want list to

alorince@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20098 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 6/24/2002
Subject: TCA Convention
Dear Colleagues:

I am off to the TCA convention in St. Charles, IL. and the relative calm of
an organization dominated by zero gaugers (just kidding!). If any of you are
attending, please say "hello" while you are there.

Best.

Bob Bubeck
Group: S-Trains Message: 20099 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 6/25/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Here's an example of how this Yahoo list is going. This message got to me today, Tuesday the 25th. This is how I don't see posts, they are there if I go to the groups site. Some read them that way anyhow.
jfred
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com wrote:
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, June 23, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat





S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20100 From: Paul Yorke Date: 6/25/2002
Subject: Yahoo Facts
With many folks not getting the YahooGroup Mail, for some unknown
reason. I did a bit of analysis on the Yahoo members....
Yahoo Facts: (using 366 for total number of S-Scale and 675 for S-Trains

175 folks are members of both lists:
of that 175
72 on the S-Scale list use the 'no mail' option
81 on the S-Trains list use the 'no mail' option

No Mail Daily Digest
Individual emails
S-Trains 233
246 184
S-Scale 152
92 116
(it's not going to be easy to replace Yahoo, some folks like the mail,
others like to browse)

On the S-Scale we have 22 names that do not have YahooIDs and 'no email'

, most likely have left the list.
On S-Trains we have 76 with no ID and 'no email', lost souls I suspect.

We have 412 yahooIDs on the S-Trains list, (can you imagine the 'chat
potential')
On the S-Scale we have 309 YahooIDs.

I made a cheat sheet with YahooIDs of the list members that also
submitted their real names.
In the near future I will make it available only to listmembers. It will
not have email address on it.
I figure it will come in handy on 'chat night'.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20101 From: Steve Blancard Date: 6/25/2002
Subject: Custom Franklin loco project
On Sunday chat I mentioned my custom Franklin loco project and promised
to post some photos. My Franky has a hand made diamond stack and
working oil headlamp using a 3 mm amber diode.

It is only about 1/2 finished but this will give you an idea of what
I've been up to. The headlamp is not hooked up yet and you can see the
diode leads in the photo. I still need to paint the smokebox and stack
as well as a few detail items. It will also have a slow speed can motor
and Dallee electronic reverse unit.

Photos can be seen here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Custom%20Franklin%20Project/

Comments welcome!

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 20102 From: john isn't eddie anymore Date: 6/26/2002
Subject: Fwd: Unable to deliver your message
>
>

>
> Hey gang-Yes TMCC is WAY cool-I've converted 3
> restored Flyer locos to TMCC, and they smoke like
> demons when runnung on CC. What's really great for
> my
> layout is that i can run 0 and S simultaneously-and
> when both gauges are running in TMCC, it's just soo
> laid back to walk around and tell everything to do
> what you want it to without dashing to the trannies.
What a thrill running a Flyer 293 hauling 951,
952,953,854 while the NH AA Alco hauls some
streamiliers, and my L 2065 wauls Williamd NH madisons
and the K-Line TCA NH freight set is doing its thing!!
Ah, the CT shoreline in the mid 50's!! I'm 8
again!!-john Marganski
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20103 From: Gerry Evans Date: 6/26/2002
Subject: NASCAR
Yo, Group:

Just got a flier yesterday from Model Expo offering 12 1:64 "Replicas of Historic Stock Cars." They are only being sold as a set. Flier claims original cost at $120. These are 12 for $19.99. Geez, at a $1.67/car how can you go wrong. Item #RC9200A. 1-800-222-3876 or save 5% on web orders at www.modelexpo-online.com/datf.

Gerry Evans
In Flagstaff


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20104 From: David A. Highfield Date: 6/26/2002
Subject: Re: NASCAR
S folks,
These stock cars range from 1963-1994 models, hardly "historic" for those of
us who run steam. But they look good
and might fit well on many layouts...along with a scale race track. Look for
the overstocked ad for pictures.
Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerry Evans" <cujoacat@...>
To: "S-Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 9:39 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] NASCAR


> Yo, Group:
>
> Just got a flier yesterday from Model Expo offering 12 1:64 "Replicas
of Historic Stock Cars." They are only being sold as a set. Flier claims
original cost at $120. These are 12 for $19.99. Geez, at a $1.67/car how can
you go wrong. Item #RC9200A. 1-800-222-3876 or save 5% on web orders at
www.modelexpo-online.com/datf.
>
> Gerry Evans
> In Flagstaff
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20105 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/26/2002
Subject: WP F3s
David Duck Dewey sez:
>I just got a nice package (at no added cost) from SHS with the
>correct colored tanks and trucksides for my WP F3s!

Don:
I have a set of WP F3's. They are in storage at the moment so I don't know
what color these parts are. What is the full story?


Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20106 From: joshseltzer Date: 6/26/2002
Subject: NASG Convention 2002 NOTICE: Red tour expanded.
The RED tour on Friday, August 2 has been expanded to include Lee
McCarty's Hi-Rail Cuyahoga Valley Lines. A new price for this tour
has been posted as we had to arrange for additional transportation.
This new price will apply to future sign ups only.

Josh Seltzer
Group: S-Trains Message: 20107 From: joshseltzer Date: 6/26/2002
Subject: NASG 2002 Convention car notice: Prototype number cars sold out!
The prototype number car is SOLD OUT! There are about 10 if the 2002
numbered car left to sell.
If anyone wants one this may be the last chance.

Josh Seltzer
Group: S-Trains Message: 20108 From: s6g2p Date: 6/26/2002
Subject: STEAM ENGINES WHY NOT LIKE THEY HAVE IN O GAUGE
CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN WHY S-GAUGE CAN'T HAVE THE STEAM AND THE DIESELS
LIKE THEY HAVE IN O-GAUGE AND IN HO..CAN'T BE THE TURNS OR SWITCHES
BECAUSE O IS BIGGER AND HO IS LITTLER...AMERICAN MODELS IS TRYING
ONLY IF HE COULD GET THE GRAB IRONS FOR THE SD 60 I'D BE HAPPY HUMMM
SHS IS THE BEST I THINK (MY OPINON) BUT LETS GET WITH IT. BIG STEAMS
AND A CHANGE FROM THE F UNITS WOULD BE NICE I SURE THERE WERE OTHER
STEAMS AND DIESELS OUT THERE......
Group: S-Trains Message: 20109 From: john isn't eddie anymore Date: 6/26/2002
Subject: Re: STEAM ENGINES WHY NOT LIKE THEY HAVE IN O GAUGE
pro kitbashr could get their act together and offer
rehabbed common flyer beaters as conversions> all the
289,290 pacifics out there could be combineg into 4464
pennsy aeticulateds. o8o can be a mogul 330 trash can
become a big boy 332 trashers challengers k5 would
make a graet k4s a streamlined shell for a hudson! a
good man with a 3 axis dickel can work wonders in
creatinga nice bolt--- on shells wth no grinding or
splicing-johm


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20110 From: Bill Lane Date: 6/26/2002
Subject: Pennsy S Models X-29 update
Hi All,

It has been a while since I have posted an update on the Pennsy S Models
X-29 project. www.pennsysmodels.com I have seen photos of a MUCH improved
pilot model this week. Our builder is bringing it with him when he returns
to New Jersey in 2 weeks. We will get new photos on the website a lot faster
now that I have a digital camera. We still have a few cars left if you are
interested. Once we start to build a version, we will lock in a production
number. The Railway Express version is first. We are making arrangements to
show the new car at the NASG Convention in Cleveland. http://www.cvsga.org

Thank You,

Bill Lane
Pennsy S Models
Group: S-Trains Message: 20111 From: Don Thompson Date: 6/26/2002
Subject: Re: STEAM ENGINES WHY NOT LIKE THEY HAVE IN O GAUGE
As usual, it is about money. The projects are very expensive to tool and in S
we really do not have enough customers to pay for the tooling. HO must have 100X
more customers and "O" I am sure has 10X if not more. The curves hurt too! Lionel
offered many more curves than just 0-27 while AC Gilbert just had one. No one has
successful marketed an mass produced RTR product to AF enthusists that will not
negotiate the original AF curve. We tried full length heavyweight passenger cars
with American Models and we sold very few as AF compatible. It was one of the few
products we did with AM that we sold more 'scale' wheels than the AF compatible.
Don

s6g2p wrote:

> CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN WHY S-GAUGE CAN'T HAVE THE STEAM AND THE DIESELS
> LIKE THEY HAVE IN O-GAUGE AND IN HO..CAN'T BE THE TURNS OR SWITCHES
> BECAUSE O IS BIGGER AND HO IS LITTLER...AMERICAN MODELS IS TRYING
> ONLY IF HE COULD GET THE GRAB IRONS FOR THE SD 60 I'D BE HAPPY HUMMM
> SHS IS THE BEST I THINK (MY OPINON) BUT LETS GET WITH IT. BIG STEAMS
> AND A CHANGE FROM THE F UNITS WOULD BE NICE I SURE THERE WERE OTHER
> STEAMS AND DIESELS OUT THERE......

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20112 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 6/26/2002
Subject: S-VIDEO PROJECT
Hi Everybody,

It seems we have over saturated the market with the five S-Gauge Model
Railroading Videos in the past year and a half. We have decided to regroup
and put out just one per year. Volume Five has only sold 27 copies. I think
it's a pretty good one too. We know that our market is limited because the
only forum we have used is these lists. It just isn't possible to pay for
advertising and be able to market them at the low price we do. We still have
a few copies of Volumes 1 through 4 available too. I will be leaving for a
long vacation trip into the California Redwoods and the entire Oregon coast
this Saturday, June 29. Any checks that may be in the mail now will have to
be dealt with when I return. I'll be back about July 14.

Thanks all

Steve Blackburn
S-'n-S Trains
Boise, Idaho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20113 From: jfred436 Date: 6/26/2002
Subject: 4 x 8 layouts
I just added to my jfred photo album scans from the A. C. Gilbert
instructions "M5748" showing three 4 x 8 track plans.
It goes to show that the people there were still trying at the end. A
4 x 8 track plan gets into Lionel and MARX range.
It's still not as small as 027, for the zero gauge people a 16"
radius was the larger type of common track.
Now, if only, as well as 16' radius, they had offered 20', 25', and
30' radii, think of what could have been done. Pike-Master track was
never a floor layout track, could never hold up to the set-up, take
down every week play that standard Flyer track was made for.
Then came the poor looking diesels and Casy Jones steamers.
The ad copy, REALISM, Scale Ties with prototype spacing......No
unrealistic third rail! The finest name in toys..The A. C. Gilbert
Company, Erector Square, New Haven, Connecticiu, U. S. A.
Of course, if you opened the package, you'd find the switch motor was
made in Japan. But the marketing people were trying up to the end.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20114 From: Clifford Manning Date: 6/27/2002
Subject: DCS vs TMCC
Is anyone using the new DCS from MTH. The adds state that the cost and
uses are better than TMCC. I would appreciate any information or hands
on comparisons.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20115 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/27/2002
Subject: Re: STEAM ENGINES WHY NOT LIKE THEY HAVE IN O GAUGE
Friends:
I brought this whole big steam mess up, so I thought I'd try to show I
actually have the problem in focus.

Take a look at Bill Lane's X-29 project. This thing has been going on for
more than a year. I saw it at NASG last year and NASG comes up again this
month. Bill is still waiting for refinements before he actually goes into
production. AND this is a BOX CAR! Is there anything much simpler? (Well,
OK, a flat car, but still . . .)

Small entrepreneurial businesses get stretched pretty thin while they wend
their way through the foreign shores production process. Time and
communication are big factors. Take a look at this WP diesel thing. That
had to hurt SHS to order silver trucks and fuel tanks and then take delivery
on black. This is something old A.C. Gilbert would have caught on his
morning constitutional around the plant. Modern methods would require Don
Thompson to LIVE in China. Then he'd be out of touch with us.

Steam engines are outrageously complicated. They require a liaison at the
plant who can render decisions overnight and keep the connections to the US
offices open at all times. Also, big companies talk using big money and
that is probably the principal reason that giants like Lionel and MTH and
K-Line can get so much produced at once. Clearly, the big money is with 0
gauge and the biggest players. That is why I wanted all of us to encourage
Big L to get into S with gusto.

So many of you adopted the position "screw them, let's support the guys who
support S." That is an emotionally based position and it will eventually
hurt, not help, S Gauge. Supporting SHS, AM, and the others is good. Not
supporting Lionel and MTH in their S gambits is bad. Getting the high
rollers into S will raise the stakes, increase the product variety, enroll
new devotees, draw in additional players and make more money for our friends
and more trains for us. It's business, nothing personal.

Leave the gun. Take the cannolis.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20116 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 6/27/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Rich Yoder's Trial Balloon
Hi all:
As I said before, I am sorry that Rich will not be continuing with this
project at this time. It would have been a great addition to S gauge
and he was planning on producing some Hi-rail as well as scale units.
The O-gauge unit looked great, and the S of course would have been
better. Well, hopefully, he or someone else will continue with this
project in the future.
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)

butchinkc2001 wrote:

>Hey Guys,
>
>First, I'd like to say that Rich Yoder is one of the good guys in the
>business and if he didn't cover all the bases before pulling the plug
>on the 70 Tonner project it was an oversite. I know Rich from my "O"
>scale days and last spoke with him about a year ago when he was
>looking for feedback about doing an "S" scale brass projects.
>Although, I didn't paint an absolutely bleak picture, I did point out
>the obvious shortcomings that all importers and mfg's of "S" products
>face (smaller market, scale and Hirail appeal, long holding periods,
>etc). Lets face it, we are a small group with widely varied
>interests within the gauge. Just ask the RRM guys or Jetty how hard
>it is to crystal ball which brass project will sell well and which
>will do just so-so. Unfortunately, just because a model is
>critically acclaimed there is no guarantee that it will sell well.
>Next to the Maytag repairman, importing and selling "S" scale brass
>must be the loneliest job in town.
>
>I am sure if Rich can find a way to do the 70 tonner; he will.
>
>Butch H
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20117 From: Jerry Riechert Date: 6/27/2002
Subject: Re: 4 x 8 layouts
Where are these scans?


> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 02:42:14 -0000
> From: "jfred436" <jfred436@...>
> Subject: 4 x 8 layouts
>
> I just added to my jfred photo album scans from the A. C. Gilbert
> instructions "M5748" showing three 4 x 8 track plans.
> It goes to show that the people there were still trying at the end. A
> 4 x 8 track plan gets into Lionel and MARX range.
> It's still not as small as 027, for the zero gauge people a 16"
> radius was the larger type of common track.
> Now, if only, as well as 16' radius, they had offered 20', 25', and
> 30' radii, think of what could have been done. Pike-Master track was
> never a floor layout track, could never hold up to the set-up, take
> down every week play that standard Flyer track was made for.
> Then came the poor looking diesels and Casy Jones steamers.
> The ad copy, REALISM, Scale Ties with prototype spacing......No
> unrealistic third rail! The finest name in toys..The A. C. Gilbert
> Company, Erector Square, New Haven, Connecticiu, U. S. A.
> Of course, if you opened the package, you'd find the switch motor was
> made in Japan. But the marketing people were trying up to the end.

--
Jerry
Group: S-Trains Message: 20118 From: IronHorse Date: 6/27/2002
Subject: USA RR MAP, state maps
How many of you would be interested in a 46"X 66" RR map?
This map is black and white. The map title Principle RRs of
the United States.
this also includes Mexico and Southern Canada.
The map would be a reproduction of the one I have. I
got it in the mid 60s
Other than that there is no date on the map. If I new when
each RR was discontinued
I could figure out the date of the map.

Also, state maps printed in 1937. These are in color
14"x 11" Shows RR routes only.
These maps do not have streets and roads, just railroads. It
shows everything else though.
At the moment I am wondering if there is any interest out
there for these maps.

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 20119 From: frilen2 Date: 6/27/2002
Subject: Flyer Display layout?
Hi all
Interesting eBay auction at
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1743209665
Can anyone identify this one? Is there any American Flyer conection?
Karl...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20120 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 6/27/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Marketing Ineptitude
Hi all:
I tend to agree that more marketing could have been done and possibly
individuals who are interested in producing something should know the
S-gauge market. On the other hand, the 70 tonner was discussed on both
the s-scale and s-trains lists with a site to see the O gauge unit. Out
of the several hundred people on these lists, I can only surmise that a
handfull contacted him for more info, while someone said that they knew
of secret plans to build one of these by another person. I never
thought of free advertising in the S-gauge magazines - did anyone on
either of these two lists suggest this to Rich Yoder (especially as we
know the S-gauge market better than anyone?
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)

Ed & Judi Loizeaux wrote:

>>From: "butchinkc2001" <butchinkc@...>
>>Subject: Re: Rich Yoder's Trial Balloon
>>I am sure if Rich can find a way to do the 70 tonner; he will.
>>
>
>I certainly agree that it is difficult to predict which models will sell
>and which will not. S scale's smaller population doesn't seem to
>adversely affect the sales of well-researched projects. I believe the
>NKP Berks are all gone. Other brass projects in the not-so-far-distant
>past have also sold out almost immediately. Try to get an SP Harriman
>car recently?
>
>The easy way to test a project's sales potential is to state that
>if enough reservations are received, the project WILL proceed. Yes,
>this approach does require a photo, a description, a price, an estimated
>delivery date, and a few other necessities. All of the S-oriented
>publications will print new product announcements for free. So what's
>the problem? Just cancel the project AFTER insufficient reservations
>are received. At least some communication will have taken place.
>
>I think "marketing ineptitude" is hard at work. Look at Lionel: They
>chose to ask all their O gauge dealers if they felt some American Flyer
>products would sell well. Those O gauge dealers responded: "Nope.
>Never git no call for AF stuff." So Lionel cancels a previously
>announced S gauge project due to "insufficient demand." Of course, not a
>single S gauge dealer was ever queried. Logical, eh?
>
>Other inept techniques include the "I told an S gauge guy and he said he
>would spread the word." Isn't this what happened with Sunset's Zephyr
>project a year or two ago? After the project was canceled, a bunch of
>guys complained they had never heard of the USRA 2-8-2 offering since
>there was never any advertising or promotion effort devoted to the
>Mikado. Yes, a belated Zephyr advertisement finally did come out, but
>only after someone (John Foley?) badgered Sunset unmercifully to not
>cancel the project until more advertising had been published.
>Leastwise, that is what my sometimes weak memory recalls.
>
>More recently, the 70 tonner project was canceled supposedly because
>there are not as many S scale guys as there are O scale guys. The odds
>were not quite right -- or something like that. Of course everybody
>knew 10 years ago there were more O guys than S guys. So what else is
>new? But that small S population sucks up imported expensive brass NKP
>Berks and SP passenger cars and SP general purpose gondolas and PRR
>hopper cars and SP cabforwards and others without much hesitation.
>
>The problem of inept marketing is, I think, more serious than S scale's
>small population. Just an opinion without trying to reflect on any one
>person's abilities or decisions.
>
>"S"incerely...Ed L.
>
>To see or post Photos visit
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
>or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
>To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20121 From: jahoozdumm Date: 6/28/2002
Subject: Re: STEAM ENGINES WHY NOT LIKE THEY HAVE IN O GAUGE
After writing a lot I agree with, Chris Zizzo wrote:

>Clearly, the big money is with 0 gauge and the biggest players. That
>is why I wanted all of us to encourage Big L to get into S with
>gusto.

Chris, you write as though this is some kind of new idea. Many of us
have been encouraging the Big L for YEARS to "get into S with gusto."
We've written long, very friendly, hand-written letters to the
various waves of management at Lionel (even before we had a computer
to make letter writing easy), we've talked to them at shows, we've
responded to their surveys, we've written to magazines, we've use
ever channel of communication they've opened, and some of our own to
encourage Lionel, to make our S presence known. What we get are
promises. Sometimes, pretty good promises. (I even got "dovetailing"
once.) What we don't get is product.

Now, if by "encouragement" you mean buying whatever junk reissues
they make whether we want the stuff or not, well, sorry. I won't play
that game. I won't be shmoozed, baited, or blackmailed.


>So many of you adopted the position "screw them, let's support the
>guys who support S."

No, the position some of us adopted was, "Let's support the guys who
support S, which may someday include Lionel if they ever get a clue."


>That is an emotionally based position and it will eventually hurt,
>not help, S Gauge.

It is a realistic, RATIONAL position, arrived at after much
observation, thought, reflection, self-criticism, more thought, and
reluctance. It is the only hope for AF. S gauge/scale as a whole is
no longer at Lionel's mercy, thank God.


>Not supporting Lionel and MTH in their S gambits is bad.

Supporting Lionel's "S gambits" (and that is a VERY appropriated
term, perhaps more so than intended, see note below) will send the
wrong message. It will simply reinforce Lionel's hope that they can
do the absolute minimum with AF and still rake a profit off us dupes.
By all indications (Lionel's ACTIONS, not their PR) Lionel wants
anything but rampant success for AF, let alone S gauge/scale in
general. They believe (I think they're wrong, btw) that unqualified S
success means less 0 sales (Richrd K. let that slip in a personal
letter to me), and their not about to do anything that would hurt 0
sales.


>Getting the high rollers into S will raise the stakes, increase the
>product variety, enroll new devotees, draw in additional players
>and make more money for our friends and more trains for us. It's
>business, nothing personal.

Theoretically maybe, but ONLY if the "high rollers" contribute
significant products, as opposed to empty promises. Lionel wants only
the most limited "success" for AF, they don't believe in S as a
superior concept. Lionel's idea of "success" for AF is to make a
profit without hurting Lionel 0 sales. That means a restricted,
limited approach to new S products. (So far, it's meant essentially
nothing but new paint jobs.) The current group at Lionel shares
RK's "zero sum" view. Mike of MTH may be more enlightened, but if he
is, he's playing his cards very close to his vest.

Besides, at this point I'd much rather see AM, SHS, and other S
companies BECOME "high rollers".


>Leave the gun. Take the cannolis.

Leave the junk. Buy the good stuff from the good guys.


Note, according to Webster's Dictionary:

"gam'bit n. 1. In chess, an opening in which a pawn or other piece is
sacrificed to gain an advantage in position; hence, 2. a maneuver or
action intended to gain an advantage."


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20122 From: Don Thompson Date: 6/28/2002
Subject: Re: Marketing Ineptitude
Dear Rance,
Not to burst anyone's bubble, but the majority of S gaugers are not on
these lists. Of the people who have ever delivered more than one S scale
brass item, I am not sure anyone is on the list. I know that Jim Kindraka,
Dan Navarre, Jettie Padgett, Don Heimberger, Tom Marsh, etc. do no
subscribe. Of all the ways that we market S gauge: phone, mail, fax, shows,
internet.....the web is the smallest percentage. I will give an example. Of
the hundreds of WP F-3s we have sold, less than a dozen people have requested
the FREE silver trucks & fuel tank replacements for the incorrect black one
that are factory installed. I only announced this fact on these lists.
No, to successfully market an item in S scale (esp. a brass project), one
needs to do more than a send a few e-mail messages and attach a jpeg. You
need to do much more. Both Southwind and River Raisin have huge mailings of
previous customers to announce new projects. Both take out ads and send
press releases in the S gauge press. Both attend S gauge shows and again,
neither company is on these lists.
Don

Rance and Bente Velapoldi wrote:

> Hi all:
> Out of the several hundred people on these lists, I can only surmise that a
>
> handfull contacted him for more info....

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20123 From: Mark Preman Date: 6/28/2002
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
The July list will be delayed as I in-process a huge
collection of hard to find stuff. Stay tuned! Mark

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20124 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/28/2002
Subject: Sound retrofits for F-3s
Don:
The California Zephyr sometimes ran ABB engines. Are you offering separate
sale back up "B" units?

Also, you offered sound in both A & B units to the early depositors when the
F-3s were first announced. Can I buy those sound devices and retro-fit them
in my A units? Will I need additional wiring or speakers?

Thanx,
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20125 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/28/2002
Subject: Re: New Mobley Library Service
Thanx for the referral, Sam. I was interested in finding the Model
Railroader that had the article on painting the Orange Blossom Special. I
borrowed it from the library at the time. Now I can't find a copy. I'll
try Kalmbach's archives. It just was so great that MRs "Paint Shop" used
1/64th. as the size for all their how-to articles. Paint Shop has now been
dropped as a regular feature. Too much RTR, I guess.
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20126 From: s6g2p Date: 6/28/2002
Subject: BIG STEAMS LIKE O GAUGE
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYBODY AGREES THAT WE SHOULD HAVE ITEMS LIKE O BUT
THEN DISAGREES....I WISH THAT WE WOULD SUPPORT THE COMPANIES LIKE SHS
AND AMERICAN MODELS AND TRY TO SHOW LIONEL WHO SHOULD EITHER DROP S-
GAUGE'''' OR HELP SHS OR AMERICAN MODELS OR DO WHAT THEY HAVE
PROMISED
START S GAUGE UP LIKE O GAUGE AND I BET PEOPLE WILL BUY AND BE HAPPY
LETS GO FORWARD ------------------------------------------
Group: S-Trains Message: 20127 From: Michael Greene Date: 6/28/2002
Subject: Model Railroader's Readers' Choice Awards
My August 2002 Model Railroader arrived today and the Readers' Choice
Awards are announced inside:

"S Scale Rolling Stock
----------------------
American Models' Budd streamlined passenger car set ran away with top
honors, with S-Helper Service's 40-foot double-sheathed boxcars placing
second and the Maryland & Pennsylvania truss-rod flatcar from B.T.S.
garnering third.

S Scale Locomotive
------------------
S-Helper Service once again captured first place in this category, this
year with its A and B set of EMD Phase II F3s. American Models' EMD E8
finished second, followed by the Sn3 East Broad Top 2-8-2 from B.T.S.

S Scale Structure / Accessory
------------------------------
Banta Modelworks' backwoods locomotive and repair shed slipped past the
Cabin Creek coal tipple from B.T.S. by 21 votes, while Banta's Silverton
Depot finished in third."


Congrats to all these manufacturers and thanks to many others who have
released new S scale products!

Michael
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Greene Dunstable, MA, USA
Member: NMRA(Life), NASG, Bristol S Gaugers, NTRAK, TCA, The 470 Railroad
Club

Bristol S Gaugers http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com
National Assoc. of S Gaugers http://www.nasg.org
Maine Railroads (including DCC Corner) http://www.mainerailroads.org

need a good web hosting service? see http://www.fivebuckhost.com/?r=mgreenej
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Group: S-Trains Message: 20128 From: Robert Wight Date: 6/28/2002
Subject: My web site. For whom it may concern
Some how I screwed up my Boomspeed web page. I thought i was logging in to
keep it and I idnt. So boomspeed deleted it. I know Pauel and Tim has the
link listed on there's. Im not so good at doing this sort of thing but since
I didnt save the other website that Chris was nice enough to do for me i
started this other in progress. So for you all that has my link listed this
is the new link. Sorry for screwing up.


http://myweb.ecomplanet.com/WIGH7707/

Bob Wight

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Group: S-Trains Message: 20129 From: Don Thompson Date: 6/28/2002
Subject: Re: Sound retrofits for F-3s
Dear Chris,
Yes, we are selling F-3 B units for all roads and have them for both numbers.
The cost is $189.95 for a DC no sound or slave to be used on AC or DC. With either
AC/DC or DCC sound the cost is $289.95. All sound units are "plug n' play". We had
our builder install speakers and the socket set so that they could be upgraded to
sound. The F-7B's will be the same. The AC/DC LocoMatic sound units are available
separately for $159.95. These include functions for" Front and rear light, number
boards, Mars or strobe light, horn, bell, prime mover and two accessory outputs for
additional lights. On the F-7 these will be for red or green classification
lights. Our sound units have a 14 pin connector that plugs into the A or B unit.
Our DCC sound units are made by Soundtrax and are the same price.

Don

Chris Zizzo wrote:

> Don:
> The California Zephyr sometimes ran ABB engines. Are you offering separate
> sale back up "B" units?
>
> Also, you offered sound in both A & B units to the early depositors when the
> F-3s were first announced. Can I buy those sound devices and retro-fit them
> in my A units? Will I need additional wiring or speakers?
>
> Thanx,
> Chris Zizzo

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20130 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 6/28/2002
Subject: Re: My web site. For whom it may concern
Bob:
I don't think you were the screw up here. My Boomspeed site is gone, too.
I don't know why.
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20131 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 6/28/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, June 30, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20132 From: Clifford Manning Date: 6/29/2002
Subject: 719 & 919
I have completed repairs on a 919 and 719 coal cars. Does anyone have a
recommendation for a resistor or other control to mont on the car to kep
the voltage from snapping the join again.

I would prefer to mont something in the car instead of on the activation
rail.

Clifford Manning
Group: S-Trains Message: 20133 From: Paul Yorke Date: 6/29/2002
Subject: test message - please ignore
Sent at 8:30 Saturday morning to the yahoo list and the
trains@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20134 From: John Foley Date: 6/29/2002
Subject: Fwd: Re: Super Ad deal again
>Hi Folks
Here is Ca. roadbed's new address just in case.
John

>Hi John
>
>California Roadbed Co., Inc. would be interested.
>Also as of the 3 of July 2002 California Roadbed Co.,
>Inc. is moving to Cottonwood, CA below is the new
>address and phone numbers
>California Roadbed Co., Inc.
>3568 Balls Ferry Road
>Cottonwood, CA 96022
>1-530-347-9783 voice
>1-530-347-9796 fax
Group: S-Trains Message: 20135 From: Clifford Manning Date: 6/29/2002
Subject: www.ssstrains.com
What has happened to www.ssstrains.com. All I get is
Directory Listing Denied

This Virtual Directory does not allow contents to be listed.

Clifford Manning
Topeka
Group: S-Trains Message: 20136 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/29/2002
Subject: #20315 Keystone Rocket Set
I just listed my #20315 Keystone Rocket Set with as 21004 E-Bay #
1745509335. If someone from this list were to buy it Let me know & shipping
will be waived. Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20137 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/29/2002
Subject: 21004 set & more
I for got to mention that I will be listing a Keystone set with a 21005 in
it. The cond is the same for both sets. I will entertain offers on the
unlisted 21005 keystone Set, From 1955 It has a rarity of 5& on the
increase. T&M lists it at 1600 & i'll take offers in the range of 25% less
Thank You, Mike
PS I also will have a #4713 ABA set with 4 pass cars, in the same E to E+
cond. The set #on it is #5580H "The New Chief Passenger, 1955 T&M's guide
price is 1600 but I will take about 25% less


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20138 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 6/29/2002
Subject: Silver Rocket Or Royal Blue Tender Chasis
Anyone have a Royal Blue tender chassis they would like to part with for $$$
or trade for Smoke fluid Or other item's that you might need. I have some 310
shells & 312 shells, Some smoke units Field & arm's etc. Also Pacific &
Atlantic chassis with & without motors. Thank You Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20139 From: Mike Vana Date: 6/29/2002
Subject: 719 and 919 controls
Clifford Manning wrote:

I have completed repairs on a 919 and 719 coal cars. Does anyone have a
recommendation for a resistor or other control to mount on the car to
keep
the voltage from snapping the join again.

I would prefer to mount something in the car instead of on the
activation
rail.

------
This isn't quite what you asked for,
but beats having to modify your cars...

If you have an extra AF (or any) transformer,
hook the variable voltage to the activation
rail, then turn the transformer up slowly to
dump the car.

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20140 From: David Dewey Date: 6/29/2002
Subject: Re: 719 and 919 controls
Mike didn't mention it, but you need to phase the transformers and connect
the base posts together to do this. it works! You could instead add a
resistor to the wire where it clips onto the rail, this would be easier than
in the car. OTOH, if you want to take your car to other's train layouts, the
internal modification would be best. No, I haven't thought out what the
internal modification might be! (a resistor, or a full-wave rectifier as a
voltage drop maybe)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20141 From: nasglibrary Date: 6/29/2002
Subject: Mobley Library's MR 1:64 plan list
All NASG members --

Price increase! Because of the lengthening list (1937-1962 and growing)
and the USPS increase in rates, the MR 1:64 plan list will be 75 cents
via USPS from now on. List will remain FREE on e-mail.

Dick Karnes, Librarian
Russell M. Mobley Memorial Library
NASG Inc.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20142 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 6/30/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, June 30, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20143 From: crustyfour Date: 7/1/2002
Subject: Custom Franklin progress
Hi Guys,

A number of people have asked about photos of my custom Franklin
project. I've posted 2 new photos (Franky4.jpg and Franky5.jpg) to
the files section. Here's a link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Custom%20Franklin%
20Project/

There is still a lot of work to do but it is starting to look like a
real loco.

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 20144 From: Clifford Manning Date: 7/1/2002
Subject: track trips
What do you use to activate the 759 and 760 accessories? The
documentation lists 696 track trips. I have never seen any available.

Clifford Manning
Topeka, Ks
Group: S-Trains Message: 20145 From: splitdorf@1bigred.com Date: 7/1/2002
Subject: Franky photos
The Franklin project photo link came out broken -sorry. Maybe it will work better this time. If not, just look in the files section in the Custom Franklin project folder.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Custom%20Franklin%20Project/

Steve Blancard
crustyfour
Group: S-Trains Message: 20146 From: rodgers_carl Date: 7/1/2002
Subject: ssstrains
What has happened to ssstrains? Can't get on website and emails being
returned.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20147 From: trzp1800 Date: 7/1/2002
Subject: Re: track trips
Hi:
They're out there. This is the variable pressure trip. It'll keep the
accessory activated continuously while a string of cars goes over it,
provided you have it adjusted properly for the weight of the cars.
Takes a little time to get it right. Check with the various dealers
out there and look in the junk boxes at the shows.

Regards

--- In S-Trains@y..., Clifford Manning <clifma19@m...> wrote:
> What do you use to activate the 759 and 760 accessories? The
> documentation lists 696 track trips.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20148 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 7/1/2002
Subject: worm again
Guys, i just got another worm titled "a very good tool" 90K. Have gotten
this one at least half a dozen times in the past. Watch out for it and
delete the attachment unopened!

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20149 From: bassflyer Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: Re: worm again
Just tonight I received a returned (un-deliverable)email from me
to Robin at S-Helper service,..which I never sent,...and sure enough,
it was ketz, klutz, whatever that one was,..infected!
I ran a scan and I seem to be clean,..and the computer too!!


Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20150 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: AF passenger cars
http://www.geocities.com/jim_lancaster.geo/trains.html

Jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free
http://sbc.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20151 From: Frederick Kopetz Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: Re: Worm Again.....
Tom:

I also got the same worm entitled "very good tool" about a week and a half
ago. I deleted the attachment unopened and scanned my computer with Panda
Antivirus; turns out the computer was clean (luckily).

Your warning is well-taken; let me repeat it...if anyone receives anything
with an oddball attachment they don't recognize...DO NOT OPEN IT!

Regards,


Frederick P. Kopetz
Group: S-Trains Message: 20152 From: d.garber Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: track trips
the 696 has a normally open set of contacts. each time a wheel pushes down on the bar it flashes the bulb and/or rings the bell it is not adjustable


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20153 From: royhoffman Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: Open House
Since there will be folks traveling via the PA Turnpike to the
Convention, I thought I would have the layout open for visitors on
Tuesday, July 30. I'm only 5 miles from a Turnpike exit in Central
PA. The layout is in decent shape considering that I was working away
from home. Just please don't come with white gloves on.
But, I'm home for good now as I retired last Friday and will have
lots of time now for the layout (and the NASG of course) after we
take a little retirement trip out West.

If you're not familiar with the Penn Western, there are lots of
pictures at:
http://www.s-scaletrains.com/pwrr/pwpics.htm

The main web sites are:
http://www.innernet.net/rhoffman
http://www.s-scaletrains.com/pwrr

If you are interested, just contact me off-line.

Roy
rhoffman@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20154 From: Doug Peck Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: Re: track trips
Mistake----the 697 is the variable pressure trip you described below...not
the 696.
696 trips simply "bounce" up and down with each wheel that passes over it.
697 is used with accessories that are to remain on for a period of time,
such as a semaphore or whistle.
696 trips are for xng bells and xng flashers.
Both have become a little difficult to find.
696 trips have been reproduced; 697 have not.
In most cases, I recommend to folks that they consider using a modern
infrared trip instead. They are more reliable, and are easily adjustable for
both time delay as well as normal-on or normal-off. We sell a lot of the
MTH units for this purpose.

<<<Subject: Re: track trips

Hi:
They're out there. This is the variable pressure trip. It'll keep the
accessory activated continuously while a string of cars goes over it,
provided you have it adjusted properly for the weight of the cars.
Takes a little time to get it right. Check with the various dealers
out there and look in the junk boxes at the shows.

Regards

--- In S-Trains@y..., Clifford Manning <clifma19@m...> wrote:
> What do you use to activate the 759 and 760 accessories? The
> documentation lists 696 track trips.
>>>



Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supplies
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours - Weekday Evenings from 7:00 PM to 9:30 PM
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-Free; orders only, please)
<http://www.portlines.com/>
Doug@...


-----Original Message-----
From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com [mailto:S-Trains@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 5:25 AM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1503


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
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------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 7 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Custom Franklin progress
From: "crustyfour" <splitdorf@...>
2. track trips
From: Clifford Manning <clifma19@...>
3. Franky photos
From: "" <splitdorf@...>
4. ssstrains
From: "rodgers_carl" <rodgers_carl@...>
5. Re: track trips
From: "trzp1800" <trzp1800@...>
6. worm again
From: jarcho@...
7. Re: worm again
From: "bassflyer" <comic@...>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 11:31:26 -0000
From: "crustyfour" <splitdorf@...>
Subject: Custom Franklin progress

Hi Guys,

A number of people have asked about photos of my custom Franklin
project. I've posted 2 new photos (Franky4.jpg and Franky5.jpg) to
the files section. Here's a link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Custom%20Franklin%
20Project/

There is still a lot of work to do but it is starting to look like a
real loco.

Steve Blancard



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 06:51:44 -0500
From: Clifford Manning <clifma19@...>
Subject: track trips

What do you use to activate the 759 and 760 accessories? The
documentation lists 696 track trips. I have never seen any available.

Clifford Manning
Topeka, Ks


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 08:04:19 -0400
From: "" <splitdorf@...>
Subject: Franky photos

The Franklin project photo link came out broken -sorry. Maybe it will work
better this time. If not, just look in the files section in the Custom
Franklin project folder.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Custom%20Franklin%20Project/

Steve Blancard
crustyfour






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 13:30:40 -0000
From: "rodgers_carl" <rodgers_carl@...>
Subject: ssstrains

What has happened to ssstrains? Can't get on website and emails being
returned.



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 16:58:34 -0000
From: "trzp1800" <trzp1800@...>
Subject: Re: track trips

Hi:
They're out there. This is the variable pressure trip. It'll keep the
accessory activated continuously while a string of cars goes over it,
provided you have it adjusted properly for the weight of the cars.
Takes a little time to get it right. Check with the various dealers
out there and look in the junk boxes at the shows.

Regards

--- In S-Trains@y..., Clifford Manning <clifma19@m...> wrote:
> What do you use to activate the 759 and 760 accessories? The
> documentation lists 696 track trips.



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 00:20:34 -0400
From: jarcho@...
Subject: worm again

Guys, i just got another worm titled "a very good tool" 90K. Have gotten
this one at least half a dozen times in the past. Watch out for it and
delete the attachment unopened!

Tom Jarcho




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 07:20:14 -0000
From: "bassflyer" <comic@...>
Subject: Re: worm again

Just tonight I received a returned (un-deliverable)email from me
to Robin at S-Helper service,..which I never sent,...and sure enough,
it was ketz, klutz, whatever that one was,..infected!
I ran a scan and I seem to be clean,..and the computer too!!


Rick.



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 20155 From: Tim Brown Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: #697 Track Trips
Hi,

If anyone needs #697 track trips, I have two I would sell for $25.00 each (I pay postage). Please contact me off list if interested. I have a sterling feedback profile on eBay.

Thanks,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20156 From: hcopter52 Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: Layout elevation
What is the best way to add an elevated level on top of another and
what is the easiest way to get trains from one level to another?
Anyone done this? Thanks in advance for the help,John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20157 From: Don Thompson Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: Re: Layout elevation
Dear John,
Have you considered Woodland Scenics foam elevations? AF as well as our track
fit nicely on this. They can be found at:

http://www.woodlandscenics.com/s2.htm

Don


hcopter52 wrote:

> What is the best way to add an elevated level on top of another and
> what is the easiest way to get trains from one level to another?
> Anyone done this? Thanks in advance for the help,John B.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20158 From: Crpntr12449@aol.com Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1503 Message 5
I'm not a kia but the #696 is the spring loaded, flat bar track trip while
the #697 is the adjustable screw type. I see them on E-bay all the time and I
believe Hobby Surplus.com has them also.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20159 From: David Dewey Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: Re: Layout elevation
The replicator and the transporter work well. . . .

Uh oh, beam me up Scotty--the natives are getting restless!!!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20160 From: bilfrazier Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: 30B part
I am in need of a right-hand turret for a 30B transformer. (PA12B311,
Control Knob, right). These are almost impossible to find, but maybe
someone on the list has a junker? I believe this part fits the 18B
and 30B only, while other large transformers have similar, but not
interchangable, turrets.
Thanks,

Bill Frazier
Group: S-Trains Message: 20161 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: SSSTRAINS
Someone was asking about ssstrains. This might be the same ssstrains they
have a listing on E-BAY. Try #1746784641 This might be the same person.
Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20162 From: Roger Petrella Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: Re: Layout elevation
Dave,

Have you been smoking those Hawaiian shirts or have you been in CA too long?

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


David Dewey wrote:

> The replicator and the transporter work well. . . .
>
> Uh oh, beam me up Scotty--the natives are getting restless!!!
> S'
> David D.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 20163 From: David Dewey Date: 7/2/2002
Subject: Re: Layout elevation
Roger,
I told Scotty the natives were getting restless!! Just got my Dispatch,
AAAUGH!!! Not ONE but TWO pics of me in it!! Gotta find that culprit!!
S'
David D.
PS I'll blame it on the heat 100+ last two days.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20164 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 7/3/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Marketing Ineptitude
Hi all who commented:
Not wanting to be defensive, I would just like to add a few comments.
The two e-mail lists have the following numbers (thanks to P. Yorke for
the numbers):

366 for total number of S-Scale and 675 for S-Trains,

so my comment about several hundred was not so far off nor meant to be
all inclusive, only to try and surmise how many of those members on
these lists actually sent an "interest" return e-mail to Rich Yoder. I
specifically include both lists as it was mentioned that both scale and
hi-rail products were in the offing! I know of two (myself and one
other person who mentioned it on the list). Additionally, as has been
so eloquently said in several previous and subsequent e-mails, marketing
in S gauge is quite different from marketing in other gauges (approaches
"swamiism"?). I recognized this from history and the e-mail comments by
our experts - and I also said something to the effect that although he
was lacking in his marketing research, did anyone on these lists who
came back with such good answers actually send him some of these
suggestions? I only continue this thread as I for one would certainly
like to see the 70 tonner produced (similar to the O gauge one that he
had pictures of at his site).

I do hope that Rich Yoder reconsiders, does more of the market research,
and eventually produces the 70 tonner in S-gauge.
Regards to all.
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)



Don Thompson wrote:

>Dear Rance,
> Not to burst anyone's bubble, but the majority of S gaugers are not on
>these lists. Of the people who have ever delivered more than one S scale
>brass item, I am not sure anyone is on the list. I know that Jim Kindraka,
>Dan Navarre, Jettie Padgett, Don Heimberger, Tom Marsh, etc. do no
>subscribe. Of all the ways that we market S gauge: phone, mail, fax, shows,
>internet.....the web is the smallest percentage. I will give an example. Of
>the hundreds of WP F-3s we have sold, less than a dozen people have requested
>the FREE silver trucks & fuel tank replacements for the incorrect black one
>that are factory installed. I only announced this fact on these lists.
> No, to successfully market an item in S scale (esp. a brass project), one
>needs to do more than a send a few e-mail messages and attach a jpeg. You
>need to do much more. Both Southwind and River Raisin have huge mailings of
>previous customers to announce new projects. Both take out ads and send
>press releases in the S gauge press. Both attend S gauge shows and again,
>neither company is on these lists.
>Don
>
>Rance and Bente Velapoldi wrote:
>
>>Hi all:
>>Out of the several hundred people on these lists, I can only surmise that a
>>
>>handfull contacted him for more info....
>>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20165 From: Don Thompson Date: 7/3/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Marketing Ineptitude
Dear Rance,
Your point is well taken. Rich needs to market to the rest of "S"
and not just us few on the internet. I wonder how many of the 366/675
are on both lists? I know I am and get many of the same posts from
both. Rember, the S Guagian has over 5,000 subscribers and I know many
S gaugers who do not get that magazine. Our own SHS database has over
4,000 customers who have purchased from us at one time or another.
Don

Rance and Bente Velapoldi wrote:

> Hi all who commented:
> The two e-mail lists have the following numbers (thanks to P. Yorke
> for the numbers):
>
> 366 for total number of S-Scale and 675 for S-Trains,
>
>
> I do hope that Rich Yoder reconsiders, does more of the market
> research, and eventually produces the 70 tonner in S-gauge.
> Regards to all.
> Rance Velapoldi (Norway)
>

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20166 From: MrDryBones Date: 7/3/2002
Subject: photos
Question from a newbie:
I go to see photo albums.
3 sizes are listed;
thumbnail, screen, and full size.
how do i get the full size photo?
Thanx
Yaakov Kirschen
Group: S-Trains Message: 20167 From: IronHorse Date: 7/3/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Marketing Ineptitude
In all fairness, there are those of us that cannot afford to pay for advertising.
It would eat up all our profits to the point we have a major loss.
And those of us that did try paid advertising, some of us saw no results.
I tried a news paper add to get people to my museum. I got maybe 3 people.
If I at least broke even with the add I would have posted another.
I would love to post adds in train magazines. Would I get my money back from
customer turnover. I doubt it. The adds are to costly.
A publication should have a policy of allowing first time advertisers a discount to
make
the add worthwhile. It would have to be a major discount. It would not cost the
magazine
much since the publication is going to be printed anyway. Places like "Life Like"
would not qualify because they pay for adds elsewhere. Very small business men need
major discounts to get that needed boost to get customers.
Definition of very small: Less than 5 employees and less than $20,000 a year profit
for
the business owners personal use. Something like that.

Roger Hinds

Roger Hinds

Don Thompson wrote:

> Dear Rance,
> Your point is well taken. Rich needs to market to the rest of "S"
> and not just us few on the internet. I wonder how many of the 366/675
> are on both lists? I know I am and get many of the same posts from
> both. Rember, the S Guagian has over 5,000 subscribers and I know many
> S gaugers who do not get that magazine. Our own SHS database has over
> 4,000 customers who have purchased from us at one time or another.
> Don
>
> Rance and Bente Velapoldi wrote:
>
> > Hi all who commented:
> > The two e-mail lists have the following numbers (thanks to P. Yorke
> > for the numbers):
> >
> > 366 for total number of S-Scale and 675 for S-Trains,
> >
> >
> > I do hope that Rich Yoder reconsiders, does more of the market
> > research, and eventually produces the 70 tonner in S-gauge.
> > Regards to all.
> > Rance Velapoldi (Norway)
> >
>
> -- -- Don Thompson
> S Helper Service Inc.
> http://www.showcaseline.com
> 1.800.465.0303
> New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
> http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 20168 From: IronHorse Date: 7/3/2002
Subject: Marketing Ineptitude, stupid subject lines
Was there a marketing survey I did not know about?

When I keep seeing "0 Gauge" on the subject line. I would delete the message.
Not interested. This is an "S" gauge site.
If there are mentions of "S" gauge In e-mail, with a heading of "0" gauge offerings
or something similar, most of us would not have read it.

Another words ----- Subject: "0" gauge offerings. Hundreds of us are going to
hit
"delete". They are not interested either. "S" gauge please.

I notice a lot of people will type up an e-mail and send it with a stupid
subject line. Stupid, meaning, The subject line does not refer to the content
of the e-mail content. Some people are to lazy to change the subject line.

Sorry if this note bugs anyone. I will get of my soap box and go behind a tent
and sulk. Can I blame it on the heat?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20169 From: David Dewey Date: 7/3/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Marketing Ineptitude
Advertising is a most perplexing problem, even for the pros (Madison Ave.
types). I once sponsored a Radio Theater Hour promoting my piano tuning
(even did neat "facts about your piano" ads. After three months (the
contract term) with not even ONE tuning from it, I dropped out. The next
week I got ONE tuning from them! Perhaps if I'd continued them... OTOH,
maybe that wasn't where my market niche was (What do piano players--or their
parents--listen to on the radio?).
I have considered making a few items, and advertising is one of the expenses
that must be considered into the price. I would also consider samples to be
sent to the "what's new" reviews by each "major" magazine, although I
understand they are often more interested in items from their "major"
advertisers.
It's a tough row to hoe. You heard about the toy train maker who won the
lotto? He was asked what he'd do with his new millions; "Guess I'll just
keep making trains until the money runs out." (Be that as it may, if I won
the Lotto, I'd be making *something* in S!)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20170 From: bassflyer Date: 7/3/2002
Subject: Re: photos
"Bones, dem bones dem,...dry bones!"

Seems we can't size the pics anymore! IT's Yahoo at their
best again!! Go figure!!


Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20171 From: Tim Brown Date: 7/3/2002
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] #697 Track Trips
SOLD.

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Brown
To: S-List
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 11:35 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] #697 Track Trips


Hi,

If anyone needs #697 track trips, I have two I would sell for $25.00 each (I pay postage). Please contact me off list if interested. I have a sterling feedback profile on eBay.

Thanks,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20172 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 7/3/2002
Subject: Disney Train Items
http://www.phil-sears.com/Disneyana7.htm

jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free
http://sbc.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20173 From: bassflyer Date: 7/3/2002
Subject: Fwd: Re: NASG DISPATCH missing pages...
Art Armstrong wrote:

**((Just wondering if I was the only person who's magazine is missing
pages 9,10,23,and 24? I am missing 9,10,23,and 24 also but I have
two of pages 7,8,25,26 to compensate.))**

Art,...yer not alone!! Me too!!

Rick (over in Atascadero) Evans.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20174 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 7/4/2002
Subject: 70 Ton
I e-mailed Rich to support his effort. Jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free
http://sbc.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20176 From: jahoozdumm Date: 7/4/2002
Subject: Re: photos
"MrDryBones" <mrdrybones@y...> wrote:

>I go to see photo albums. 3 sizes are listed;
>thumbnail, screen, and full size.
>how do i get the full size photo?

Ah, I see that more members are experiencing "the NEW Yahoo/groups."

Welcome, Yaakov.

Last May, Yahoo began preparing us for their "service upgrade," a
euphemism for "we gonna make you PAY to look at your own stuff." They
began removing certain features from the already ad-ridden "free"
service, in order to use them exclusively in their new "premium" (for
pay) service. Viewing any image in the photo section in its full size
glory will now cost you $ (none of which will go to the person who
took the trouble to capture, process, and post the image.) Dunno how
many $, I haven't yet seen any official ads for Yahoo's new service.
But, unless you upgrade, you will be able to view only the "screen
size" (480 pixels max in either dimension) image. I don't know what
other features will be "pay only."

If you're interested (or just feel a need to punish yourself) there
are a couple of threads on this subject
in this list beginning with message 19469. You will find that message
in the list of last May.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20177 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 7/4/2002
Subject: stand/narrow gauge
http://www.owensvalleyhistory.com/carson_n_colorado/page50.html

Jim Sleeth

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free
http://sbc.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20178 From: HOGHEADHAT@AOL.COM Date: 7/4/2002
Subject: Marketing
Does anyone have the S-Gagier magazine address? You can place rather
inexpensive classified ads in many of the railroad magazines. A one inch ad
in TRAINS is going to cost about $100, while a classified ad would cost about
$25. One way you might want to market your s-scale items is at
Trainshops.com. The cost is the same as a 1 inch display ad in TRAINS and
they advertise your site in all of Kalmbach magazines every month. For my
hatwear business, I would have to sell 20 hats to pay for 1 inch display ad.
Kent Kahle hoghead hatwear
Group: S-Trains Message: 20179 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 7/4/2002
Subject: Kris Car Lot Up For Sale...
Hello All!

I just wanted to let all of you former buyers of my Kris Cars know,
that I started again to sell off some of my collection duplicates on
eBay. If you missed anything the first time around, most cars will be
auctioned again at least once.

More important, several cars that I never sold before will be auctioned
in coming weeks. These include Southern Pacific Hoppers, Red & Black
versions, Santa Fe Hoppers, Red & Black versions, and several others.

In addition, I am still looking to add to my collection Kris cars in S
gauge that I do not have. If you have and are willing to trade any cars
that I do not have, I will "trade your way"! I am looking for in
particular, REA Express, Union Pacific reefer, Geneseee & Wyoming, and
any others not currently in my collection.

Thanks again for purchasing Kris cars in the past! This is not so much
as a advertisement, as an advisement! I know that at least a couple of
you Kris collectors would not forgive me if I did not at least warn you
that I had started to sell Kris cars again!

Thanks, Chuck

PS: Auctions going up tonight, 5 day auctions:

Gray Erie Lackawana Boxcar
Pacific Fruit Express Reefer
D.L.&W Hopper

--

eBay myflyertrains - TCA# 99-50024

Personal Web Site - http://myflyertrains.com
Kris Model Trains Home - http://krismodeltrains.org
The All Aboard Sets Club - http://allaboardsetsclub.org
Group: S-Trains Message: 20180 From: bassflyer Date: 7/4/2002
Subject: Fwd: Re: NASG Dispatch June 2002
--- In S-Scale@y..., "bassflyer" <comic@d...> wrote:

Roy said,...***(( "Cheer up, at least you all received the
President's Message!"))***

Roy whooooo??!!?? Kidding!!
Pleased to see a couple of my pics in the Dispatch,...but don't tell
that David Dewey fella,...wink-wink nudge-nudge,..he isn't sure where
they came from...OOPS!! He knows now!! Really,..he had a clue!!

Rick Evans.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20181 From: wdlane Date: 7/4/2002
Subject: Pennsy S Models Update
Hi Everyone,

I have great news. I have received our new pilot model from our
builder today. We have made substantial improvements over the first
pilot model of a year ago. I took lots of photos with my new digital
camera. Dan wants to debut the photos on the website
www.pennsysmodels.com as soon as he can. However, here if a sneak
peek at the detail of the underside of the truck.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/X29truck.jpg I have never seen
such complete brake rigging on a truck before. Note the stainless
steel wheels and axles that are non-magnetic and still have a nice
steely shine to them. We are getting the leaf spring patterns made so
it will actually function!

I will post when the website in updated.

Thank you
Bill Lane

Pennsy S Models
Group: S-Trains Message: 20182 From: MrDryBones Date: 7/5/2002
Subject: new track, long pins
All my track to date has been original flyer.
I've just picked up some new 52' radius track and the pins are LONG
and REALLY tight. Thought I'd cut 'em shorter and file 'em thinner
a 'bit.

Is that a bad idea?
Why?

Thanx
Group: S-Trains Message: 20183 From: David Dewey Date: 7/5/2002
Subject: Re: new track, long pins
Yep, common problem w/K-line track, although I understand the newer
production has been improved. I would, especially if you just do temporary
track layouts, as they (the wider pins) will deform the original track they
are plugged into, so the track will be loose when later mated with original
AF track.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20184 From: af21115 Date: 7/5/2002
Subject: As seen on E-Bay
Quote: "AF HOPPER CAR WITH COLE, C B&O #921 S-SCALE?? Burlington
Route, Every Where West. This car has some wear on it, 3 of the steps
are broke off, has some scratches. need cleaned up. I think it is AF
but it don't say it is ?. " End Quote.....

I know I heard somewhere about a Slaw Mill......
Group: S-Trains Message: 20185 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/5/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, July 7, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20186 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 7/6/2002
Subject: Re: As seen on E-Bay
Dave said:
>Quote: "AF HOPPER CAR WITH COLE, C B&O #921 S-SCALE?? Burlington
>Route, Every Where West. This car has some wear on it, 3 of the steps
>are broke off, has some scratches. need cleaned up. I think it is AF
>but it don't say it is ?. " End Quote.....
>
>I know I heard somewhere about a Slaw Mill......


No Dave, this car came in two versions, the Old King and the Nat King. LTI
re-released it as the Natalie. When you run them together, they're quite
unforgettable.

Don't you just love how a junk box item becomes a rare collectible on E-Bay?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20187 From: Clifford Manning Date: 7/6/2002
Subject: Triple S Trains????
The link for Triple S - (http://www.ssstrains.com) will not work.

All I get is: Directory Listing Denied

This Virtual Directory does not allow contents to be listed.

It is the same whether I link from Paul Yorks list or direct.
Does anyone understand why????



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20188 From: Doug Peck Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: Re: ssstrains
I don't know why Tom's website is down, but I do know that Tom presently has
some family difficulty (a very seriously ill mother) which is demanding a
lot of his time.

<<The link for Triple S - (http://www.ssstrains.com) will not work.

All I get is: Directory Listing Denied>>

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supplies
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours - Weekday Evenings from 7:00 PM to 9:30 PM
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-Free; orders only, please)
<http://www.portlines.com/>
Doug@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20189 From: Paul Yorke Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: New List Proposal - Please Read
New list Pros & Cons

I am looking for your input. Please respond off list. I have setup two
new lists to replace the s-scale & s-strains yahoo lists they we are
currently using. I am not sure if we should switch over now or wait for
Yahoo to make its next move.
I have completed the testing of the two new lists and they are different
from Yahoo. I have found an archive page to archive the notes. I know
some of you prefer to read the notes off the web rather than having them
delivered to a mailbox.

New Lists Cons:
1) Hard to change peoples habits
2) Archive is slower than Yahoo's, When one posts a note to Yahoo The
note apears in the archive very quickly, For this list it can take a
couple of hours.
3) Password: I have enabled the password requirement. On the first line
of every note you must put the list name (it's the password) This in a
minor pain, but will cut down on the spam. Unlike Yahoo, anyone can post
to this list, BUT they must include the password.

Pros:
1) No comercials or yahoo Tag lines. This list belongs to us, we paid
for it and there will never be ads unless we put them there.
2) No delay on message transmission, everyone should get the message
within a few minutes.
3) These are our lists, if you are having a problem there is a person
that can help you figure out the problem.
4) You can always post to this list even if you're on your work account,
or at a friends house, as long as you know the password.


Here is the question:
Where do we go from here?
Option One : Do nothing

Option Two: Everyone signs up for the new lists, but continues to
use the old Yahoo lists. (This would help us in case Yahoo got shutdown
with short notice. In that case I would loose contact with you,
unless you were already a member of the new lists.)

Option Three: We convert over to the new lists. (I could keep the
Yahoo archives out there, but not allow any new posts.)

For information about the lists visit
http://s-trains.westhost.com/mod.php?mod=userpage&menu=15&page_id=15
If you have more questions or comments email me at yorke@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20190 From: Paul Yorke Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: New Lists:Answers to feedback
Thanks for the feedback, you guys are great.

Bill Lane wrote:

What is wrong with the Yahoo lists that you want to move?

Hi Bill,
1) Recently Yahoo has been VERY slow on mail delivery. (seems better
today)
2) Many users think Yahoo has too many ads. (In the archives , I think)
3) To maintain the current 'no ads in the notes' mode we will need to
send more money to Yahoo. We have paid in the past but I don't think we
want to pay again.
4) Yahoo is hinting that we will need to pay in the future just to use
the basic services.
5) Some users have problems with delivery, posting and the archives, but
Yahoo 'support' does not respond to individual users. On our list we
should be able to better support these users.
6) Yahoo does not let folks post notes to the list unless it can verify
their idenity, we will be using a password to verify users.

___________________________________________________

Yahoo Archives:
I don't anticipate us loosing the Yahoo archives. Although the Yahoo
archives seem to only searchable for the last 10 months or so.

____________________________________________________

Digests? No the new list does not support 'Digest mode'.
Sorry

____________________________________________________


I suspect we will hang with Yahoo till they piss us off even more.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20191 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, July 7, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20192 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: Re: As seen on E-Bay
My thanks to Mr. Bubeck for reminding me that Gilbert never did produce that
unit train of hoppers known as Cole Porters. I do, however, have a couple
of streamliners called "Stardust" and "Moonglow". Would a snack bar
installed in one, where a passenger could purchase a hero sandwich, make it
into a Hoagie Car, Michael?

(OK, so there is no Michael. Creative license, shut up.)

Tin Can Alley = TCA
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20193 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: Re: As seen on E-Bay
Well, Chris,
There may not be a Michael In the hoagie car, But sure
tickled my ivories. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20194 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: as seen on ebay
If you repaired a hole in that hopper's side, would that make it an
authentic cabbage patch car?

Tom
Group: S-Trains Message: 20195 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: as seen on Ebay
.......a hole in the hopper?/
Then it must be a later AF production such as a Cole Younger (gunfighter).
probably a fatal hit.

JR
Group: S-Trains Message: 20196 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: as seen on oi vey
I don't know -- the slaw ter would be terrible! Tom
Group: S-Trains Message: 20197 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: AS SEEN
Maybe Willie Hoppie the pool player....mIke


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20198 From: aglorince Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: greenberg train show , pittsburgh
look for me at the greenberg train show at monroeville expo mart
(pittsburgh pa) on july 20 and 21 2002. i'll have american models
products.

andy lorince
Group: S-Trains Message: 20199 From: robert allen conner Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: PA SHOWS
Clear DayJust returned from a long trip...Jacksonville to Canada...Looking for trains and models....Also looking for aircraft museums...Saw A real Lancaster Bomber.....But back to the point...I arranged my trip to be in ERIE, PA. for the GATS Show....Figured I would find lots of good stuff....WRONG....Not only was there not much there ( One fellow who I have met before did have some nice, But Expensive Flyer ) we were really treated to NORTHERN HOSPITALITY....I paid for my ticket and went in...My wife waited in the car...Well mother nature called...she went in the lobby and asked about the rest rooms....told to go downstairs...she then went to the person ( won't call her A lady ) taking up tickets and again asked where the rest rooms were...She was informed that she would have to go upstairs and buy A ticket to enter the lobby to use the bathroom...only 7.00...She explained that I was in the show and all she wanted was to use the restroom and go back outside....The person then said...Well go to the Burger King about 3 blocks down the street!!!!!...(Giving no directions) Are GATS shows having such A hard time they need to now charge to go to the toilets too or is this just A policy of ERIE, PA....Bob Conner

BTW....Went into Niagara hobbies...bills itself as the largest hobby in the US....Asked for "s" gauge....Was informed that is A " dead " gauge....nobody messes with it anymore!!!!!!




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20200 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: GATS
Bob, GATS sands for Get That $


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20201 From: roy inman Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] PA SHOWS
Bob,
Sorry to hear you and your wife had not the best experience with GATS.
The last GATS show in the KC area was a disappointment also. Maybe 40
tables, only one with Flyer/S stuff, and that seller was high also.
I would dispute Niagara Hobbies claim to being the largest hobby store (was
that the largest TRAIN store, or largest HOBBY store?).
Anyway, Caboose Hobbies in Denver has to rank up there pretty high as the
largest TRAIN store. And, Caboose has a lot of S items, especially in
structures kits, but a certain amount of consignment Flyer, which varies of
course.
Roy Inman

----------
> From: "robert allen conner" <rcon7@...>
> Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 19:49:44 -0400
> To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [S-Trains] PA SHOWS
>
> Niagara hobbies...bills itself as the largest hobby in the US
Group: S-Trains Message: 20202 From: Al Reibel Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: Re: PA SHOWS
----- Original Message -----
From: "robert allen conner" <rcon7@...>

>I arranged my trip to be in ERIE, PA. for the GATS Show....Figured I would
find lots of >good stuff....WRONG....Not only was there not much there
Whaddya mean? There was a ton of stuff there, if you like overpriced Lionel
or broken up Tyco!

>we were really treated to NORTHERN HOSPITALITY....I paid for my ticket and
went >in...My wife waited in the car...Well mother nature called...she went
in the lobby and asked >about the rest rooms....told to go downstairs...she
then went to the person ( won't call her A >lady ) taking up tickets and
again asked where the rest rooms were...She was informed that >she would
have to go upstairs and buy A ticket to enter the lobby to use the
bathroom...

(Blush) That isn't normal Northern Hospitality! That would be courtesy of
the
Erie Civic Center Authority, who when combined with the Erie Parking
Authority makes any event in the Downtown area a real P.I.T.A.,
unfortunately.
With your permission, I'd like to forward a copy of your letter to a friend
that works
there? It may help in the future.
We "locals" (I'm 30 miles away from Downtown Erie) were glad for the GATS,
anyway. There are two other shows of about the same size, one spring and
one fall,
so an extra show in the summer was a bit of a treat. Nothing in my
operating scale
(TT! Yes I am masochistic!) but some good workshops, and a few bargains on
some
tools and scratchbuilding supplies. With two Train shops (one all Lionel)
in a 50
mile radius, I won't complain about the GATS , Yet!
Al Reibel
Group: S-Trains Message: 20203 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: S=Dead
robert allen conner, just home from travelling, sez:
>BTW....Went into Niagara hobbies...bills itself as the largest hobby in the
>US....Asked for "s" gauge....Was informed that is A " dead "
gauge....nobody
>messes with it anymore!!!!!!

Let me footnote that for you. Last weekend, my wife needed to return
something she bought at Kohl's (there's that word again) and took me to an
obscure little south shore mini-mall. There was a tiny hobby store in
there, with a large proportion of trains. I never heard of the place
before. He had a Silver Flash LTI set, extra cars for it, extra New Haven
cars (orange striped) and a bunch of Flyer freights. I bought a Sunoco
tanker. He wanted $50, but I simply said that I never pay retail, so he
knocked 10% off.

Dead gauge, my ass.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20204 From: David Dewey Date: 7/7/2002
Subject: Re: PA SHOWS & Niagara Hobbies--Let's swamp 'em!
Bob,
Hmm, I wouldn't blame that rudeness on Northerness, it's just
inconsiderate slobs. They'll get theirs in time. Just want you to know this
"Northerner" would have helped. The other night I gave two people tickets to
the concert as theirs hadn't been delivered. They looked honest and
concerned and were willing to pay again, so I apologized for the problem,
noted their names (so the box office could figure out what the problem might
be) and gave them two tickets. Some other people gave me some tickets back
because their friends couldn't come, hoped we could use them for someone
else--we could, it was a sold-out show. Courtesy begets courtesy!
(Concert was the community band & chorus, non-profit)
Does this Niagara Hobbies have email? We could ALL post them a note,
showing that S is NOT DEAD. Humph. Could even include in our email some
website addresses of different mfg's.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20205 From: Don Thompson Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: S is Dead?
Dear David,
I encourage all of our S gauge customers when they enter a hobby shop, try to
find the owner or manager and ask for the S gauge section. Yes, 90% of the hobby
shops will tell you the same thing, but we get calls all of the from hobby shops
wanting to try "S" because people came in and asked for it. If you get the "We can
order it for you" line, ask why they bother stocking HO if they could just custom
order that too!
Don

David Dewey wrote:

> Bob,
> Does this Niagara Hobbies have email? We could ALL post them a note,
> showing that S is NOT DEAD. Humph. Could even include in our email some
> website addresses of different mfg's.
> S'
> David D.

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20206 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1509
David the Duck asked Disappointed Bob:
>Does this Niagara Hobbies have email? We could ALL post them a note,
>showing that S is NOT DEAD. Humph. Could even include in our email some
>website addresses of different mfg's.


I found:
Niagara Central Hobbies
Billing itself as:
CANADA'S LARGEST
HOBBY & CRAFT SHOP
395 St. Paul Street
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada

http://www.niagaracentralhobbies.com/

They appear to specialize in trains. They list every gauge but S.

I know, Bob, that sometimes on trips across the border, you could lose track
of whether you were here or there when you saw something of interest. Is it
possible that this Canadian store was where you went?

If so, their e-mail address is:
nch@...

There does not seem to be a "Niagara Hobbies" on the US side, at least
according to Google.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20207 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: DIDGEST 1509
Dave & Chris did they say "EAH"? A sure sign of Canada. Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20208 From: Doug Peck Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: Convention
For anyone planning to attend the NASG convention in Cleveland at the end of
the month, a heads-up----
We will be there with our "AF Parts Dept" plus more, but if you have
specific AF parts needs, let us know in advance. We can have it all
prepackaged for you, saving everyone a lot of waiting time at the table!
(Just give us more than a day's notice !)
Also, please note that we will NOT be present on Saturday. Due to a family
commitment, we will be packing up Friday evening to drive home on Saturday.
Unfortunate....but can't be helped !
Hope to see many of you folks there.

BTW---our website continues to expand and improve. Please check it out !

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supplies
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
New Shop Hours - Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays: 2-5 PM (EST), and 7-9 PM.
Saturdays: 2-5 PM.
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-Free; orders only, please)
<http://www.portlines.com/>
Doug@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20209 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Big steam
Greetings! I'm back from vacation where I took about three weeks of the
S-Trains and the S-Scale lists, printed.

I too want some big steam. I will say two numbers.

3985

4294

------------------------------

I am interested in purchasing ONE UP 3985 (4-6-6-4 challenger) and I want it
so it will go around K-Line 27 inch radius curves.
I am interested in purchasing ONE SP 4294 (2-8-8-4 cab-forward) and again I
want tight curves.
Painted, DC Highrail is required and I want DCC ready. (I do not required
special effects which include sound, smoke, choo-choo, bells and whistles,
waving engineers, etc.)
Price under $1000.00 each.

Last, I need a 27 inch radius switch (turnout) that will work with these
beasts. I want a switch I can pick up and plunk down just like an AF 740
and is either AF track compatible or SHS compatible.

Off sniffin' that coal smoke again...
Thorin


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wisconsin Electric - Wisconsin Gas is now We Energies.
Please use our new email extension "we-energies.com"
when addressing email to this sender,
e.g., john.doe@....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20210 From: robert allen conner Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1509
Guys and Gals......

1. The shop in St Catharines is GREAT....Keeps the Flyer in the
Basement....Had A fair amount and with the Canadian Prices reasonable
too.....But what I found there was hanging from the ceiling for about 40+
years was A built up SPEEDEE BILT model airplane...I collect these too....I
offered the owner 15.00 us....Its now in my train room..got to hang it
someday...
2. Niagara Hobby & Craft Mart is on Walden Ave... www.niagarahobby.com . I
went back a couple of days later on my way to Erie...I spoke with another
man and pointed out several ads in Toy Trains to him...
3. I have been to Caboose Hobbies several times....If you are within several
hundred miles...GO
4. The search I did before I left showed A "s trains" in Buffalo...could not
find it.
5. The Greensboro, NC show I went to on the way up only had 1 dealer of
k-line....Found a few other things tho. ( 400 table toy show..ad. trains )
6. David...By all means send this to your friend.
7. As for crossing the Border...The first time they asked for
everything...Dl, Birth Cert., Questions, Etc. both coming and going...The
second time as I pulled up to the Officer...He leaned over and asked..Every
here from the US? yes....Pass...Didn't look at A thing.
8. Brady Hardware near Huntington, wv has some flyer..( went by there after
going to Pt. Pleasant to check out the MOTH MAN ).said last summer they got
A truck load...The stuff they had is nice and changes often...
9. Went to many other shops....Found A BC&G Consol. in ho Guage....Lots of
Plasticeville stuff...
10. Roamed around the old BC&G Yards at Dundon, Cressmont (jumped A big
snake), went up by my old Uncles house just out of Swandale, went into
Swandale...all is gone now including the wood bridge into town...you now
straddle the tracks on the old railroad bridge...waded in the creek.....went
up to Widen...The tracks are mostly in place yet and there is A trailer in
Swandale with A putt-putt car on the tracks
11. I have never tried Google...Prefer www.dogpile.com then fetch....
12. BTW....The falls are great this time of year...
13. All in all had A great time...met many..many nice people...saw A lot of
georgious country.
14. The Greenberg show in Monroeville used to be great...haven't been there
in years.
15. Chris..Thanks for the St. Cath. e-mail...I missed it



Sorry for the long post...Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 20211 From: Mark Preman Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Huge collection for sale. Had to take out a second
mortgage and a personal loan to get it. More coming in
so watch for updates as the weeks go by. It will be a
fun summer! Mark
http://www.americanflyertrains.com

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free
http://sbc.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20212 From: seahawkdan@aol.com Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: track layouts
hey all!

i'm about to take my flyer gear, and get it in gear. i'm itching to get going, but gotta take it one step at a time. gotta clean the track and the trains, and all that stuff, but i have a general questions.

is there anywhere on the web i can find sample track layouts for flyers? i'm interested in doing more than the 'circle' or oval layouts, but i'm not ready to commit to any 'permanent' layouts just yet either.

thanks in advance for the response.

dan
Group: S-Trains Message: 20213 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: New S Scale track cleaning car -- MNP
Greetings
Here are my first impressions on the MNP S Scale track cleaning car.

First, the background.

MNP Inc. (Many New Products = MNP)
537 Hallmark Dr
Newport News, VA 23606
Phone/Fax 757-596-2309
Orders: 1-866-667-4620 (1-866-MNP-INC0. 866 is another 800 number series.)
www.mnpinc.com and mnp@...

I ordered this car based on an add in Model Railroader. It listed S Scale
as one of the scales. The car arrived on June 27, 2002.

The normal MNP track cleaning car consists of a boxcar with two motors
hidden within. Each motor runs a spinning disk that presses against the
rail head. (There are photos on the web page.)
Normally the MNP track cleaning car is within a box car. As I am
assembling a non-prototypical (thus working) track-cleaning train I wanted
mine to be a flat car so I could see the mechanism.
This was Matt's first S Scale order. I directed Matt of MNP to work
with Robin Thomson of SHS to decide which car to send me. I specified a
modern flat car (preferably orange) so imagine my surprise at seeing a Grand
Trunk Western flat with 1950 build date in blue! (NO. I AM NOT RETURNING
IT. IT'S MINE. ORDER YOUR OWN! :-)

The car has two mis-matched trucks: one a normal freight car truck and one a
caboose truck. The caboose truck provides power to a bridge rectifier.
This way the motors always spin the same way -- AC or DC. The output is
sent to two track cleaning mechanisms, one over each rail. Each cleaner
consists of a can motor mounted vertical. It then powers several series of
reducing gears before getting to the final shaft. This shaft is under the
car. There is a spring and then the pad so the car actively pushes down on
the pad. The pad is about one inch in diameter. Above each truck is a
block of steel to hold the car down.
I was surprised to see that only one truck picked up power. If any car
needs help getting past (or to) dirty track, it is the track cleaning car.
(It needs power so it can do its job of cleaning.) I guess this means the
car has a front and a back. And the power truck is in the rear. Someday I
will contact Robin and get another caboose truck for 8-wheel pickup. (Or
her grand-daughter. When I say Someday I mean SOMEDAY.)

I when I removed it to put it on the rails I noticed how heavy it is! I put
my brand-new AM SD-60M behind it and ran it up. The SD-60 didn't even work
up a sweat: like all SHS trucks these roll very nice. The track cleaning
motors has a nice spin. At 12 volts I thought it look like about 33 RPM. I
proceeded to run it about 30 feet forward and back. It ran exclusively on
AF track and AF switches and was just fine.
I stopped then because I hadn't added any cleaning fluid or Ciag Cailube
paste or <whatever> to the disks. I was running them dry. (They look like
white cotton pads about 1/4 of an inch thick. I doubt they will not remain
white....) I also stopped because I was supposed to be packing for vacation
not running trains but that's another story.

My future plans start with adding it to a track cleaning train. I have an
SD60M to push it. The train will consist of an erector set-based track
sweeper (under construction), a centerline track cleaning car, an Aztec
track cleaning car (need to purchase), the new MNP car, and an AM Milwaukee
Road Bay-Window caboose. Maybe this 1:64 combination will keep ahead of the
1:1 mud my 1:1 cat tracks in!
I plan to convert to DCC in the next couple of years. (I just don't
have the time.) Then the SD60M, the MNP car, and the erector track sweeper
will all get separate decoders so they will all run independent of each
other.

Matt was nice enough to send some extra track cleaning pads. I look forward
to further experimentation with this car as time permits.

Thorin



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wisconsin Electric - Wisconsin Gas is now We Energies.
Please use our new email extension "we-energies.com"
when addressing email to this sender,
e.g., john.doe@....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20214 From: Robert Jackson Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Big steam
"Marty.Thorin" wrote:

> I am interested in purchasing ONE UP 3985 (4-6-6-4 challenger) and I want it
> so it will go around K-Line 27 inch radius curves.
> I am interested in purchasing ONE SP 4294 (2-8-8-4 cab-forward) and again I
> want tight curves.
> Painted, DC Highrail is required and I want DCC ready. (I do not required
> special effects which include sound, smoke, choo-choo, bells and whistles,
> waving engineers, etc.)
> Price under $1000.00 each.

Okaaay! And I want to be slim, ripped, and 24 years old again!
Bob Jackson
Group: S-Trains Message: 20215 From: Tom Doherty Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: New products
We will be at the Cleveland NASG Convention.

Our web master is not available for the next 2 weeks but we can try to post a few photos here of some new stuff late next week.

A prototype of an S SCALE/ HI RAIL 8 wheel, double-ended trolley will be coming along with us (WE HOPE!). As most of you probably know, I work on the real things at museums. So, we picked this style of car since it was the most common type used in the US and most of the rest of the world!

>From the very beginning, we kept the door open to what would make the most sense for S gauge. Our decision to use a double end car would allow a line to be installed for back and forth use as well as a loop operation if desired. Our S gauge chassis were already out there and folks were very comfortable with them. Our track reversing module had proven itself and was well accepted in all 3 gauges. This would make a back and forth line really easy. The basic design was represented in all major trolley museums, so various paint schemes would be easy to accomplish. It also could be marketed to the "Christmas Village customer". We had the capability to provide an interior, due to our experience with the Corgi PCC. We could draw the best features from O and HO and apply them to the best gauge! And last but not least, I had "baby sat" an example on our farm for over 15 years, waiting for the museum to come into being so I had become very familiar with the curves and bumps!

Our ability to interface with various trolley museums would allow us to use this car for their displays and also provide a new exposure for S gauge. Even the great A.C. Gilbert and all of his employees would have been very familiar with the look of it! If there were trolleys in your town, they probably resembled this car. They lasted through WW2 and were still earning their keep in some places into the late 50's. The air compressor thumping, bull gears roaring under a wooden floor, ozone and electric heaters adding a heavenly form of air pollution, and a motorman who was friendly and courteous. Air conditioning provided by the open window next you and the speed of the car! What more could a young fellar ask for? Screeching around a tight turn in a city street with the bell constantly clanging ,running along the side of the road, or bouncing along, WIDE OPEN on a secluded cross country right away, this was the trolley North America grew up with! Although not as pretty as the PCC, on one of those trips into town, the amusement park, or the beach, these were the thrill the PCC never had a chance to provide!

We will need some feedback on this! Currently it will be resin cast, but- give us an incentive (translate- enough orders) and it will be injection molded. You already know we have a drive that will do the job. Our Injection Molding capabilities are now about to come on line (finally). Interior, reversing lights, sounds, DCC. Its all gonna be up to you the CUSTOMER!

Here's the chance to prove what all this web talk really means! We did our home work and are ready if you are!

BLACK BEETLE? These are self contained DC power trucks we are importing in HO, S and O gauge. Various wheelbases and wheel sizes. Wheels currently available include both regular "dish" and various spoked wheels. And yes, we are expecting to have HiRail versions with us.

RDC
We almost have enough orders to make a run. Now that there is an interior, who would like to get an RDC? We will be making some minor design changes and producing a short run in 3rd quarter, so get you reservation in or miss the boat again!.

Also, is it time for an additional version?

Buildings

We will be bringing along our S gauge, fully assembled, laser cut buildings and the brass station signs that go with them.

Bachmann ON30" conversion Chassis
We have modified the chassis used in our brass trolley and installed it in the shell of the Bachman 4 wheel car.
All 3 paint schemes will at the show. These are ready to run with a flywheel and use the existing lighting system in the car. The same design is used in the 4 wheel cars at the Cinn. Museum and those cars are providing excellent service!

Tom Doherty
Pennsylvania Heritage Models, Ltd.
http://www.paheritagemodels.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20216 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: SSS TRAINS
Anyone still looking for SSS Trains? Please contact me off list. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20217 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: SSS TRAINS :PS
Anyone still looking for SSS Trains? Please contact me off list. Mike S.
PS: The SSS Trains owned by Tom Seccia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20218 From: John Foley Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: S Kit #78
Hi Folks
American Model Builders sent me the email below
announcing two new S scale Laser kits. Kit # 78 a
interlocking tower Photo at website. And Kit # 94
McCormac's Dry Goods no photo yet but take a look at
HO kit # 793, It is basically the same thing.
Also AMB's are donating kit # 78 for the NASG layout.



At 09:09 AM 7/8/02 -0400, LASERkit@... wrote:
>John,
>
>A press release on the availability of kit #78 just went out to distributors
>last week. The Tower kit along with #94 McCormac's Dry Goods is now in
>production.
>
>Regards,
>American Model Builders, Inc.
>1420 Hanley Ind. CT
>St. Louis, MO 63144
>314-968-3076
>314-968-0799 FAX
>www.laserkit.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20219 From: bob werre Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: S Kit #78
Bob Werre

> Hi Folks
> American Model Builders sent me the email below
> announcing two new S scale Laser kits. Kit # 78 a
> interlocking tower Photo at website. And Kit # 94
> McCormac's Dry Goods no photo yet but take a look at
> HO kit # 793, It is basically the same thing.
> Also AMB's are donating kit # 78 for the NASG layout.
>
>
>
> At 09:09 AM 7/8/02 -0400, LASERkit@... wrote:
>> John,
>>
>> A press release on the availability of kit #78 just went out to distributors
>> last week. The Tower kit along with #94 McCormac's Dry Goods is now in
>> production.
>>
>> Regards,
>> American Model Builders, Inc.
>> 1420 Hanley Ind. CT
>> St. Louis, MO 63144
>> 314-968-3076
>> 314-968-0799 FAX
>> www.laserkit.com
>
lTo All: I am just finishing up with the B & M yard office from AMB. It is
a fairly simple kit that makes into a very nice structure. It is a typical
lazer cut kit with a peel back/sticky trim. I would be very curious as to
the longevity of that technique as I have several building with that design,
and my RR room is not air conditioned when I'm not there.

lBob Werre
Group: S-Trains Message: 20220 From: Don Abrams Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: SSStrains link
I get 'http error 403'
"You are not authorized to view this page."
I'm using IE 6.0.26 and and Norton Personal Firewall.
Don

>The link for Triple S - (http://www.ssstrains.com) will not work.
>
>All I get is: Directory Listing Denied
>
>This Virtual Directory does not allow contents to be listed.
>
>It is the same whether I link from Paul Yorks list or direct.
>Does anyone understand why????
Group: S-Trains Message: 20221 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: SSStrains link
Group: S-Trains Message: 20222 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: SSStrains link
Don,
& others his web site is down. To get in touch with Tom Seccia of
SSS TRAINS His E-mail address is : Seccia@... His Phone # is 610
296-9428 For Phone Orders Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20223 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: track layouts
Dan:

Unfortunately, to my knowledge there are almost no good Flyer track plans
out there. Those that are are mostly based on the oval. The ones the
Gilbert factory put out are especially bad, with one exception. On the
cannister containing the 26782 trestle set, there is a plan of a figure 8
folded over itself, using trestles. This is an idea that can be expanded
into interesting results. Woodlands Senics risers can also be used instead
of Flyer trestles.

I have built several layouts using the idea of the figure eight folded over
itself. A figure eight and a half, that is, a figure 8 with an extra loop,
folded over itself, is even better! If you can block some of the views
with scenery, structures, tunnels, partitions, or furniture (on a floor
layout), you can get the effect of trains popping up in unexpected places
traveling in unexpected directions. This adds a lot of viewing interest,
gets away from the oval look, and makes the layout seem longer.

I like to set things up so that switches can select alternating routes. In
other words, if the switches are set one way, one train travels over say a
figure eight and a half loop. If the switches are set another way, two
trains can travel over separate routes that incorporate parts of the big
loop simultaneously. These routes may be ovals but offer variety anyway.
Trains can be stopped ("parked")on the parts of the layout that are not
used in each pattern if these segments are long enough.

It is important to take advantage of the train stopping ability of Flyer
switches to get the most out of your track plan. The best way is by wiring
with a common rail AC system (the "base post" system) as the Gilbert
factory intended. This is described in the Nov-Dec '98, Jan-Feb '99, and
Mar-Apr '99 . S GAUGIAN Roundhouse columns.

Lionel track plans in general do not translate well to Flyer. Most Lionel
layouts are keyed around reversing loops. With Lionel, it's easy to build
reverse loops that automatically switch to accommodate an incoming train.
This is very complex with Flyer. On the other hand, Flyer switches stop a
train in sidings when the switches are thrown against it. Lionel switches
do not do this. Lionel trains are more or less designed to run
continuously. Flyer trains are more suited to mimicing the activities of a
real railroad.

The best thing is to be flexible and try different things. Don't get
permanent until you are sure you like what you have. Sectional track's
greatest advantage is that layout changes can be made quickly and easily.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20224 From: IronHorse Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: S is Dead?
A hobby shop owner says "S" is dead, because he is ignorant. (not to be meant as an
insult)
He hasn't researched his profession enough to know what is out there.
Some of them know we are there and wished we would go away. There isn't enough
customers interested, so don't bother me with it. Something like that.
So who's fault is it? The lack of clueing in the Hobby shop owner as well as the
general
public.
Answer (sort of) It is the fault of not advertising where the general public will
see it.
I know, adds are expensive. How about free ads in the form of flyers. Place them on
public
bulletin boards at Laundromats and other places. Get permission to put a brochure with
info.
at a sports shop, an auto supply store, hardware store, an excersize place, a golf
course and elsewhere.
What would have happened with AC Gilbert toys if they did not advertise?
While I am on my soap box, ---- You fellows making "S" stuff. Will your line go on
if you kick the old bucket. I hope you have made sure it will. You are doing a real
good job.
Ok, ---- I am getting of the soap box know. Anyone else want a go at it?

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 20225 From: Paul Yorke Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: track layouts
My layout is based on a folded figure 8.
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/layout/diagram.htm
I never changed over to the gargraves switches, all
but one is flyer

Anybody got a copy of the layout that tom is talking
about?
"On the
> cannister containing the 26782 trestle set, there is
> a plan of a figure 8"

=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free
http://sbc.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20226 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Woodland Scenics Inclines
Hi all:
Has anyone used woodland scenics' inclines to make elevated track
sections? Is 2 1/2" wide enough for s-scale track? Do you use a
starter set first (or is the first piece of the incline actually what
they consider to be starter set of inclines?) I remember one person
saying that woodland scenics made a 2 1/2% grade (or a special grade)
for them. Was it expensive to get the special increase made? Do any of
our dealers handle the inclines (SHS, Portlines, etc.??).
Tx for info.
Rance Velapoldi
Group: S-Trains Message: 20227 From: Don Thompson Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Woodland Scenics Inclines
Dear Rance,
We have an entire layout based on the Woodland Scenics theory of foam
elevations and risers. I have a few jpegs I can send to you. I works just
great. They have 2, 3 and 4% elevations. Our track is about 1/32" wider
than the risers and this does not seem to make a difference.
Don


Rance and Bente Velapoldi wrote:

> Hi all:
> Has anyone used woodland scenics' inclines to make elevated track
> sections? Is 2 1/2" wide enough for s-scale track? Do you use a
> starter set first (or is the first piece of the incline actually what
> they consider to be starter set of inclines?) I remember one person
> saying that woodland scenics made a 2 1/2% grade (or a special grade)
> for them. Was it expensive to get the special increase made? Do any of
> our dealers handle the inclines (SHS, Portlines, etc.??).
> Tx for info.
> Rance Velapoldi
>
> To see or post Photos visit
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
> or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
> To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20228 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: track layouts
In a message dated 7/8/02 6:09:57 PM, jarcho@... writes:

<< Unfortunately, to my knowledge there are almost no good Flyer track plans
out there. >>

At the risk of tantalizing you all with "unobtainium", keep a look out for
"Track Layouts for American Flyer" published by Hirth Hobbies (1953). Many of
the layouts have considerable complexity. There are a few reverse loops in
some of these plans (the book mentions the No. 698 reverse loop kit or using
a DPDT switch), but these can be readily dealt with in this day and age.
These little books to do show up at train shows, with dealers who trade in
"paper", particularly back East.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20229 From: pieter_roos Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: S is Dead?
In this case I think "'S' is dead" is a varient of "They don't make
that anymore..." which is retailese for "I don't stock that, so I
can't make any money by selling it to you. Either pick something I
have in stock to buy or leave me alone!" It's tinged with the hope
that maybe you'll that the product isn't made and buy something that
IS carried, rather than lookng elsewhere for what you really want.
Such answers come often from hired help, but some owners do it too. I
have a lot more respect for the honest "I don't sell enough of that to
stock it or even special order it for you, sorry."

This is not just a problem for S. I've heard similar stories (They
don't make it anymore, they changed it so it isn't worth buying
anymore, etc.) from retailers with HO products they couldn't (or
couldn't be bothered) to get for me. One dealer did that to me on a
couple of $100 plus locomotives. I'd been willing to spend the extra
to buy from him instead of mail order. He had other units in the
same line. It didn't bother me so much to use mail order the next time
(he had jerked me around so long before giving me the story that the
product had changed as wasn't worth buying that I had to scramble to
find the units I wanted by mail - and they hadn't changed either).

In short, I think any amount of advertising will keep you from hearing
such things. There are a LOT of products out there, if the dealer
doesn't stock the line he probably doesn't pay much attention to the
ads for it. I also think many dealers who use such lines may not be as
ignorant of the S scale's survival as they let on.

Pieter

--- In S-Trains@y..., IronHorse <cofa@t...> wrote:
>
> A hobby shop owner says "S" is dead, because he is ignorant. (not
to be meant as an
> insult)
> He hasn't researched his profession enough to know what is out
there.
> Some of them know we are there and wished we would go away. There
isn't enough
> customers interested, so don't bother me with it. Something like
that.
> So who's fault is it? The lack of clueing in the Hobby shop
owner as well as the
> general
> public.
> Answer (sort of) It is the fault of not advertising where the
general public will
> see it.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20230 From: robert allen conner Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: Woodland Scenics Inclines
Why go to the expense of these items....I am going to use A piece of plywood
with wood blocking under it for my new grades...I will then stuff under it
with junk foam and add A sound proofing over all my plywood table top...you
can use A sabre saw to cut the areas out ...then bend up and block as
required....don't forget to make transitions at the top and the bottom...use
something like 1/8" for the first foot 3/8" for the second foot and add 1/2"
each foot after that...reverse at the top...Bob Conner

And don't forget the helix calculator......
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/helix/percent_grade.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 20231 From: nhterpsfan Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: New 'win an S car' contest running on RSSVP website
Hi all,

I thought I'd let folks know there is a new contest going on the
RSSVP models website. Like last time, it's a list of word puzzles
you solve. First person to get them all correct wins a free S car.
You can check it out at http://www.rssvpmodels.com/index.html.

Enjoy!

Bill Hilliard
Group: S-Trains Message: 20232 From: roy inman Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Dead S
Roger, et al,
We have seen this discussion before, and Roger's points about advertising
are certainly valid IMHO.
But I have noticed that every single time we set up our 48' modular layout,
we interest 3 or 4 people enough for them to got to a local hobby shop and
special order S equipment. One guy who saw our layout went into the local
Hobby Town the next day and make the clerk go through several catalogs until
they could put together a "set." After I heard the story I informed the
clerk that SHS and AM both offered sets, but he hadn't heard.
So, in addition to showing off our stuff at train meets, garage sales,
church bazaars and anywhere else we can, in addition to somehow funding more
general advertising (easy for me to say...) maybe a targeted direct mail
piece to just hobby shop owners might help. At least in this one case, it
would have. And in the case of the Niagara shop, at least they would have
been given the information that S is not dead. Some demographics could be
included in the mailer to demonstrate that there are many, many out there
who favor the scale.
Perhaps AM and SHS could offer special incentives to the HS owner as a first
time inducement to try S.
I do some direct mail pieces to promote my business, which runs on a
shoestring. But the way I do it, sending out 50-100 pieces a month until I
reach my quota, makes it affordable in this digital printing age.
Of course maybe the two manufacturers have already tried this approach, to
no (or little) avail...
I still believe, however, that once people see S stuff run, it sells itself.
Cheers,
Roy Inman
Group: S-Trains Message: 20233 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: trolleys are running! and VW news
Hi guys,

The Yakima trolleys made their first runs in years this past weekend! They
will run through Labor Day. It's great to have them back.

We returned from Alaska with a most likely totalled VW camper bus (thanks to
a British Columbia drunk driver). We were lucky to walk away. While in
Juneau I picked up a nice Johnny Lightning 13 window bus and single cab pick
up. It looks right on scale. My 8 year old picked up a nice bug (VW that
is).

Good to be alive and be back.

Jacques
Group: S-Trains Message: 20234 From: roy inman Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: 1/64th cars-RC!
Probably I was the last guy on the list to see this, but I received today a
hobby flyer that detailed two new 1/64 scale (so they claim), radio
controlled cars. They are supposed to have a 30' range.
One is called the MicroMite, priced at $19.95 list. The other is called the
MicroSizer, and is apparently modifiable with additional parts, for $29.95.
At those prices, I would not buy many.
But consider that you could pull up to the crossing gate, your new SHS CB&Q
whizzing by, gleaming Budd cars in tow, crossing gate raises, your 1/64th
MicroMite, crosses the tracks safely.
Later, your train buddy brings by his 1/64th MicroMite and you stage races
with the available pylon set-between train operating sessions of course.
From the photos, these things are not based on any particular prototype, so
you have to wonder just what "1/64th scale" means, but they look to be about
the correct proportions.
But an interesting little oddity, no?
Roy Inman
PS: Hobbico imports them.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20235 From: David Dewey Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Oh boy, Herk, TRAIN TOOLS!!!
For those of you who have been watching (or waiting), I finally got my own
mill-drill today!! It is setting, still packed on top of the stand I bought
earlier (a real deal from the junior college surplus auction). This ends
about three months of chasing down a sale deal on one from Harbor Freight
(Blame Steve S. for starting the search!). Many times I have thought the
deal was done when HF changed things, or lost my order. Finally my brother
found one in Medford (OR) near where he lives. Well, they were out of stock,
but gave him a raincheck. This was in May, they still don't have one in
stock (so they say), but the Sacramento store did when I stopped in there
looking for stuff--and they said they'd honor the raincheck. ZING!! email
brother, he snail mails said check, call Sac. store (it IS a 1-1/2 hour
driver one way) "Oh! Yes, we'd honor it, but we are out of stock! Call next
Monday. Hmm, called next Mon. "no, none this time, try again. @#$@#@~!!!
Hmm, OK, we're going halfway there today (which IS the following Monday), so
I call, "Let me check, they're unloading now----dum dum dum dum de dum dum
(Jeopardy theme) Yes! We have ONE, are you coming down today?" AM I COMING
DOWN TODAY??!!! Even Sac rush hour traffic won't stop me (however, we barely
got there before closing time because of it)!!!! "Yes, we'll put your name
on it." Wow, they were true to their word, it was left on the dock, with my
name on it! Too cool! It even looks good, now to find out if it mills
properly.
Sorry this is so long, I guess I'm excited, I've got chassis to get
rebushed! (Including one from Howard S. that wasn't done right by someone
else)
Oh boy oh boy oh boy!! Train tools!!
S'
David "gonna make chips" D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20236 From: David Dewey Date: 7/8/2002
Subject: Re: track layouts
Hmm,
Yes, I have noticed them on eBay,. but more importantly, does anyone
have a copy? I would assume (uh OH!) that the copyrites have run out on
them, and in this day of modern copying methods, it shouldn't be too hard to
print up a couple of hundred of them!!
Inquiring minds want to know!!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20237 From: splitdorf@1bigred.com Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Re: Oh boy, Herk, TRAIN TOOLS!!!
David,

I have a milling machine that is probably a very close clone of yours (about 600lbs, puke green and black?). I've had mine for 5-6 years now. It works fine for light to medium work. Rebushing chassis' will be a breeze. Be sure you have it leveled and firmly anchored to the stand. You probably got a milling vice with it? Be sure to level and square it to the table. Mine was off by about .015", caused by inaccurate machining of the vice base. Use shim stock to get it dead level and square using a dial indicator. The time spent doing this will pay off when you start machining parts.

e-mail me off list for more milling info splitdorf@...

Steve Blancard
crustyfour

----- Original Message -----
From: David Dewey
Sent: 7/9/2002 1:54:57 AM
To: boss31@...;S-trains@yahoogroups.com;jarcho@...
Subject: [S-Trains] Oh boy, Herk, TRAIN TOOLS!!!

> For those of you who have been watching (or waiting), I finally got my own
> mill-drill today!! It is setting, still packed on top of the stand I bought
> earlier (a real deal from the junior college surplus auction). This ends
> about three months of chasing down a sale deal on one from Harbor Freight
> (Blame Steve S. for starting the search!). Many times I have thought the
> deal was done when HF changed things, or lost my order. Finally my brother
> found one in Medford (OR) near where he lives. Well, they were out of stock,
> but gave him a raincheck. This was in May, they still don't have one in
> stock (so they say), but the Sacramento store did when I stopped in there
> looking for stuff--and they said they'd honor the raincheck. ZING!! email
> brother, he snail mails said check, call Sac. store (it IS a 1-1/2 hour
> driver one way) "Oh! Yes, we'd honor it, but we are out of stock! Call next
> Monday. Hmm, called next Mon. "no, none this time, try again. @#$@#@~!!!
> Hmm, OK, we're going halfway there today (which IS the following Monday), so
> I call, "Let me check, they're unloading now----dum dum dum dum de dum dum
> (Jeopardy theme) Yes! We have ONE, are you coming down today?" AM I COMING
> DOWN TODAY??!!! Even Sac rush hour traffic won't stop me (however, we barely
> got there before closing time because of it)!!!! "Yes, we'll put your name
> on it." Wow, they were true to their word, it was left on the dock, with my
> name on it! Too cool! It even looks good, now to find out if it mills
> properly.
> Sorry this is so long, I guess I'm excited, I've got chassis to get
> rebushed! (Including one from Howard S. that wasn't done right by someone
> else)
> Oh boy oh boy oh boy!! Train tools!!
> S'
> David "gonna make chips" D.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20238 From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Thanks!!
Thanks for all the votes on B.T.S. products in the Model Railroader 2001
Reader's Choice Awards!

Our Cabin Creek Coal Tipple came in First in O Scale Structures and
Second in S Scale Structures.

Our S Scale Ma & Pa Flatcar got a Third Place in S Rolling Stock, and
our Sn3 E.B.T. 2-8-2 came in Third in S Scale Locos.

Again, many thanks for your votes and continuing support!!

Take care,
Bill

--
============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================
Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer
Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-643-1105 FAX: 813-681-7326
B.T.S. http://www.btsrr.com
S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com
Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20239 From: Jay Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Re: Layouts
Hold on there, there are several good sites out there with AF
layouts. For a start, see the link below. This site has a lot of
usefull info if you go thru the other scales.
Jay
http://www.thortrains.net/flyerlay.htm
--
Jay
Group: S-Trains Message: 20240 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Re: S is Dead
As the owner of a retail business (not train related) and a train
guy, I would like to highlight some of the problems of getting
retailers to handle S gauge. Chris Z. talked about the shop where he
bought the Sunoco car and didn't want to pay retail. (Before anyone
thinks I am trying to bash Chris, I am not! The less you pay for
trains, the more you can buy. I think the same way.) Most hobby
retailers won't stock specialty items (I think S would be considered
specialty) if they can't get their full markup. Carrying inventory
is expensive. The guy where Chris bought had a Silver Flash set
which I'm assuming was new. That set was produced in 1995. What
retailer can afford to carry an item for 7 years? Most major
metropolitan areas have at least one good S hobby shop. Mail order
and Web buying offer plenty of S items. Train shows offer more access
to S. I know many people want to touch, feel and smell before they
buy, but ours is a minority gauge. If there are 10,000 hardcore S
people,(and I think I am overestimating) we represent just .000035 of
the US population.(no offense to those offshore!) I think we should
concentrate on keeping the people currently stocking S strong by
buying through them. Do I want S to grow? Absolutely, but I don't
think a "spread the wealth" mentality would be healthy for S, as one
new retailer's gain would be someone else's loss. Jim Duncan
Group: S-Trains Message: 20241 From: Doug Peck Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Re: AF track plans
Some AF track plans, online.....
http://thortrains.hypermart.net/flyrlay1.htm

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours - Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays: 2-5 PM (EST), and 7-9 PM.
Saturdays: 2-5 PM.
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please.)
Website: www.portlines.com
E-mail: doug@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20242 From: David Dewey Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Sad news, Ward Kimball passed away.
Hi All,
You may not know Ward, but you have seen his work. He was one of
Disney's original animators, creating characters like Jiminy Cricket, and
contributing to the design of Micky Mouse even. Walt and he were both great
railfans, and Ward had a railroad in his backyard (the Grizzly Flats RR),
preserving narrow-gauge equipment at a time when it was just being scrapped
(mid '30s). This equipment is now at the Orange Empire museum.
He was also an early toy train historian, contributing much to our current
knowledge of early manufacturers.
I had the privilage to have met and visited with he and Betty (his wife). He
was a true gentleman, even laughed at (some) of my jokes (There's a real
test of tolerance!). We will miss him; Betty could use some prayers, as I'm
sure she will miss him more than us.
Here's a link to a CNN story on him:
http://www.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/News/07/09/obit.kimball.reut/index.html
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20243 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Re: AM Smoothside Passenger Cars
Re: AM Smoothside Passenger Cars, Jack Riely asked:
>you mentioned in a post that you had some documentation mentioning
>what the prototypes of these subject cars were. Would you mind sharing
this
>material? How about the prototypes used for the LONG heavyweight cars.

Jack:
All of that was packed away in a storage carton and put away in a public
storage unit just before we started demolition on the house. I won't see it
for some time. There was only a piece on the 5 smoothsiders. I have
nothing on the heavyweights. Don Thompson (of SHS) and Ron Bashista (of AM)
will be of significantly more help to you on these both.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20244 From: David Dewey Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Re: Oh boy, Herk, TRAIN TOOLS!!!
Steve,
Well, that's the one I wanted to get, but mine is smaller, it's a
Mini-mill-drill. However, it has a dovetailed column and uses R-8 tooling,
so it has some advantages the "RF31 Clone" doesn't, although it it more
limited. However, it is just fine for making tooling for AF projects and
milling chassis for rebushing.
Tooling---ah yes!! Fortunately I have quite a bit of tooling inherited
from my Uncle, BUT I do need a good boring head so I can do the rebushing
accurately. I currently have one project, a chassis that was "proffesionaly"
rebushed. The holes are not parallel with the bottom of the chassis, and one
hole is too close to the armature, so the armature bearing won't drop into
it's hole. This is why a drill press can seldom do the correct job! Now I
will admit this is an early chassis, that came with the factory type
bushings ( a large, keyed bushing), so maybe the factory screwed up??
So, first to get a large hunk of 1/2" thick metal to raise it up on my
stand to clear the lip on it (I don't want to alter this stand, as it will
be great for my "RF 31 Clone" when I can afford one). and to find a good
boring head (the HF store was out of them). But first I have to go to work!
Later all!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20245 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Re: S is Dead?
About recalcitrant hobby dealers, Pieter said:
>I've heard similar stories (They don't make it anymore, they changed it so
it isn't worth buying
>anymore, etc.) from retailers with products they couldn't be bothered to
get for me. One >dealer did that to me on a couple of locomotives. I'd been
willing to spend the extra
>to buy from him instead of mail order. He had jerked me around so long, it
didn't bother me >so much to use mail order the next time. (Edited
version,cz)

Think about a guy with a gun, in his own hand, pointed at his own head. I
have always tried to throw my business in the direction of the local
retailer. I've always believed that by supporting the local guy, not just
in hobby stuff, but in everything, that I would be doing my part to keep the
neighborhood infrastructure alive. I don't want to see closed up shops that
can't make a living with whole subdivisions of consumers surrounding them.
I feel bad for the little guy. He gets squeezed by the malls and the
superstores and by the Internet. The manufacturers put heavy demands on his
space and on his pocket with purchase minimums and contractual mandates.
The economy is no longer structured to support the Mom & Pop operation.

But these guys who run these stores can be such JERKS! I've had one of them
tell me that there is a 20% premium charged to collectors! We all know the
stories of that guy who smashed the trains rather than sell them for a
discount. Most are not this stupid or egregious, but they can be really
ridiculous in their policies. I guess, in many cases, we're dealing with
someone who opened his own business because he didn't play well with others
in the first place. We walk in and suddenly we're in his domain, the castle
of the Lord of the Trains.

So, I'm not so worried about these guys anymore. If I can get it for 20%
less on the Internet, then that's where I'll buy it. The edge these brick &
mortar dealers had was that they are "value added". That's supposed to
include service, checking out that the product is correct, giving customer
service. If that's not happening, well, competition is good for business.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20246 From: TCS Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: New Decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S and O scale
694 Home shop for repair. Black and lime green graphics. 126 signs per
set. 1990's plus

695 KCT caboose. Black, white and yellow lettering. 1950's plus

696 DGCX 3 bay covered hopper. Black, green, dark green and red
lettering. 10-96

697 MP 89' flat car. 10-79

698 CGW caboose. 1950's plus. Black, orange, white and yellow lettering.

699 SLSF black tank car. 11-72. Black, white and yellow lettering.

700 Spencer Chemical Co. 8-56. Black, red and white lettering.

Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-.
N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These
should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so.

If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N,
HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $1.75 for p&h. You buy this catalog once,
then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring
binder.

---
---
Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals
N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals
26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054
Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@...
Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/
Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/
NMRA Member #121756
Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20247 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Chicago
Hi guys:
I am going to Chicago on Friday, the 12, returning home on Tues, 7/16.

Who wants company?
Any good stuff I should look for?
Isn't there a train watching site somewhere in the burbs (a platform for
watching heavy traffic?)

Chicago, Halllooooo!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20248 From: IronHorse Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Re: Dead S
Getting address of all the hobby shops from all the train mags. will be of great
value
Get the e-mail addresses as well.
Do a general search for "Hobby shops" in a search engine.
Get the e-mail address from all of them. I know, I know, a lot of work.
If someone could get a mailing list from Walthers or other mail order place, it would

be a great help
How about searching for the key words " Hobby shop list" I bet you will find one.

After compiling all the data send a note introducing yourself.
(To all of them at once, not one at a time) Then write about
the values of "S" gauge and how it can be of value to the hobby shop.
Keep in mind, some hobby shop owners turn there nose up to "S" gauge. So
write something totally irresistible to the owner. Get together with someone to
come up with a great sales pitch. In different regions find someone to bring a
scale train to hobby shops so the owner can see how good it is.
Imagination and perseverance can do wonders. Like in the old days, Fuller
Brush went door to door and it worked. Who doesn't know about Fuller Brush?
Staying home and saying, "I wonder why I can't sell in volume" won't help.

Find an educational TV station and volunteer to do a special on building
model Railroads. Using "S" gauge. Stretch it out so is will be a mini-series.
But you better be good. The main mistake in this is, the demonstrators hands are
in the way and a camera can't see what he is doing.

In the old days (and still today) Buyers for big companies are bribed to purchase
in volume. I bet some buyer at Wal*Mart is personally financially strapped.
He could be bribed.

It is called "Killer instinct" , Professional strategy.

So how to find such a person? Is there a private investigator in "S" gauge that
could be
bribed with the promise of a new scale locomotive. He will find the hard up buyer.

Ain't I sneaky ? ;o) Well, I suppose you could ignore all this and starve.
Sorry :o(

Time to get off of my preachers soap box, ---- again.

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 20249 From: IronHorse Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Dead S
I want to say that my last not may seem like it was arrogant.
I am sorry for that. I was trying to give advice to help get "S" sales
moving. I really want to see the "S" Manufactures and dealers have
sales that are far beyond their dreams.

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 20250 From: IronHorse Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: trolleys are running ???
Jollivier4@... wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> The Yakima trolleys made their first runs in years this past weekend!

What is Yakima trolleys ??? Real or an "S" gauge item?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20251 From: IronHorse Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: S is Dead
I get an awful lot of "S" guagers in my museum. Most of them never heard of
NASG, "S" gauge Herald, S Guagiain. They are unaware of "S" gauge clubs.
They think they are the only ones using American Flyer.

I think there is at least 3 times as many "S" gaugers out there than the estimate
shows.
We just haven't found them.

I kid you not. I have come across a lot of them. Keep in mind, I live in a town
with
a little bitty population way out in the boondocks.
Yes guys I estimate there are 10s of thousands of unknown "S" gaugers out there.
I bet if each one of us placed a classified ad looking for "S" gaugers we would come
up
with a thousand more guys.

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 20252 From: Gary Chidester Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: All aboard the California Zephyr!
This past weekend i made the trip from Salt Lake City, Utah to Denver,
Colorado on the California Zephyr. What a trip! There were some good and
bad, but overall a very nice trip and I'm glad i finally made it. I spent a
lot of time in the observation car taking advantage of the scenery. I saw
three very large mule deer at sunrise as I was going through Spanish Fork
Canyon in Utah. Antelope in the SanRafael Swell (Eastern Utah Desert), Elk,
eagles, Bighorn sheep in Colorado and a plethora of other wildlife. Even
though the west is mired in a severe drought with fires everywhere the
scenery w3as breathtaking.

The only downside i took from the trip was that despite a lack of funding
for Amtrak and a threat to shutdown, the one thing that can be controlled is
"service" and I was very disappointed by the service I received from a large
part of the Amtrak staff. They were unfriendly and quite obstinate It seems
to me that they have a chance to provide something that no other form of
transportation can and that is a real "personal touch" that is unavailable
in other areas. Maybe my experience is the exception rather than the rule,
but it happened with different staffs going in both directions.

To make this a connection to S-gauge, i stopped by the much heralded and
promoted "Caboose Hobbies" of Denver. Another disappointment for me. Not
one piece of Flyer and just one set of LTI-flyer that was on consignment. I
was told that "S" just wasn't a popular gauge. I told him that it depended
on who you talked to and his reply was that there weren't enough of "S"
gauge people to stock anything. i left and went to Mizell Trains in
Westminster, CO. they had eight or nine locomotives, several pieces of
rolling stock, even a Gabe the Lamplighter, two stockyards, a few crossing
lights, a flyer set and two LTI sets. The help was very friendly and
helpful. If in Denver see Caboose Hobbies for the sheer size, but no Flyer.
For Flyer make a short trip out to Mizell Trains!

Sorry for the long post, but I had to share!

gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 20253 From: splitdorf@1bigred.com Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Re: All aboard the California Zephyr!
Gary,

I rode the California Zephyr a couple times when I was a kid. From Chicago to LA, alone. What a blast for a kid. But that was back in the late 60s early 70s. I recall the service was still very good.

Last year I had 3 business trips from Virginia to Florida in 5 weeks. After flying the first 2 times I decided to take AMTRAK for the fun of it. The train was fun, but the service was very poor. Rude porters, surly dining car staff, uncaring station agents. Not at all the way I remember train travel from my youth...or the movies. And I traveled first class in a sleeper. One consolation was the food was very good. Nice white tablecloths and napkins.

Most of the AMTRAK staff seem to have a chip on their shoulder. Too bad, they have a real opportunity to bring pride and professionalism to their trade. Since Sept. 11th, they have had a golden opportunity to revive passenger service in America. But their poor customer service has turned off many potential future customers, including me.

S - Content
My Custom Franklin loco project is coming along very well. The Dallee reverse unit and slow can motor are a great combination. The smoke unit works much better with full voltage and slow speed. The working "oil" headlight looks really neat too. I'll post more photos soon.

Steve Blancard
crustyfour

----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Chidester
Sent: 7/9/2002 2:08:03 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] All aboard the California Zephyr!

> This past weekend i made the trip from Salt Lake City, Utah to Denver,
> Colorado on the California Zephyr. What a trip! There were some good and
> bad, but overall a very nice trip and I'm glad i finally made it. I spent a
> lot of time in the observation car taking advantage of the scenery. I saw
> three very large mule deer at sunrise as I was going through Spanish Fork
> Canyon in Utah. Antelope in the SanRafael Swell (Eastern Utah Desert), Elk,
> eagles, Bighorn sheep in Colorado and a plethora of other wildlife. Even
> though the west is mired in a severe drought with fires everywhere the
> scenery w3as breathtaking.
>
> The only downside i took from the trip was that despite a lack of funding
> for Amtrak and a threat to shutdown, the one thing that can be controlled is
> "service" and I was very disappointed by the service I received from a large
> part of the Amtrak staff. They were unfriendly and quite obstinate It seems
> to me that they have a chance to provide something that no other form of
> transportation can and that is a real "personal touch" that is unavailable
> in other areas. Maybe my experience is the exception rather than the rule,
> but it happened with different staffs going in both directions.
>
> To make this a connection to S-gauge, i stopped by the much heralded and
> promoted "Caboose Hobbies" of Denver. Another disappointment for me. Not
> one piece of Flyer and just one set of LTI-flyer that was on consignment. I
> was told that "S" just wasn't a popular gauge. I told him that it depended
> on who you talked to and his reply was that there weren't enough of "S"
> gauge people to stock anything. i left and went to Mizell Trains in
> Westminster, CO. they had eight or nine locomotives, several pieces of
> rolling stock, even a Gabe the Lamplighter, two stockyards, a few crossing
> lights, a flyer set and two LTI sets. The help was very friendly and
> helpful. If in Denver see Caboose Hobbies for the sheer size, but no Flyer.
> For Flyer make a short trip out to Mizell Trains!
>
> Sorry for the long post, but I had to share!
>
> gary
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20254 From: Knight, Gene Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: more trains
Two years ago, I was in Europe and used EuroRail for a lot of my travels. The regional trains were quite old but comfortable. The amazing thing was they kept to their time schedule...when they give a departure time...they mean it. My last train tip was from Milan, Italy to Mannheim, Germany....a nine hour trip through the Alps. The train was equipped with a dining car and the food was excellent although a little pricey but I thought " I don't do this often so what the heck". The only scary part was when we crossed the border between Italy and Switzerland. They switched engines there and while we were waiting, soldiers armed with machine guns got on and walked through the cars...looking at everyone in each compartment.....just like in the movies. The compartments had big comfortable reclining seats with large windows and a sliding glass door. If anyone ever gets the chance to go there...I highly recommend them.

Gene
Group: S-Trains Message: 20255 From: Clifford Manning Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: thortrains.net
If you like trains and exceptional layouts. If you have not been to the
web site in a few months. You must see this site:
http://www.thortrains.net/index.htm.

I had seen his track plans before but this is one of the best selling
devises for model trains I have seen in a long time.

Keep up the excellent work.

Clifford Manning
Topeka, Ks
Group: S-Trains Message: 20256 From: Don Thompson Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Re: All aboard the California Zephyr!
Gary,
Did you get a chance to stop at the "S Scale Connection" that is 4 blocks from
Caboose Hobbies in Denver. They used to have more "S" than anyone else.
Re: Caboose Hobbies - At one time they had a "S" friendly buyer. But, he moved on
and the "S" moved out. It was a pretty good store for us and I know they used to
stock PRS kits too at one time.
Don

Gary Chidester wrote:

> This past weekend i made the trip from Salt Lake City, Utah to Denver,
> Colorado on the California Zephyr. What a trip! There were some good and
> bad, but overall a very nice trip and I'm glad i finally made it. I spent a
> lot of time in the observation car taking advantage of the scenery. I saw
> three very large mule deer at sunrise as I was going through Spanish Fork
> Canyon in Utah. Antelope in the SanRafael Swell (Eastern Utah Desert), Elk,
> eagles, Bighorn sheep in Colorado and a plethora of other wildlife. Even
> though the west is mired in a severe drought with fires everywhere the
> scenery w3as breathtaking.
>
> The only downside i took from the trip was that despite a lack of funding
> for Amtrak and a threat to shutdown, the one thing that can be controlled is
> "service" and I was very disappointed by the service I received from a large
> part of the Amtrak staff. They were unfriendly and quite obstinate It seems
> to me that they have a chance to provide something that no other form of
> transportation can and that is a real "personal touch" that is unavailable
> in other areas. Maybe my experience is the exception rather than the rule,
> but it happened with different staffs going in both directions.
>
> To make this a connection to S-gauge, i stopped by the much heralded and
> promoted "Caboose Hobbies" of Denver. Another disappointment for me. Not
> one piece of Flyer and just one set of LTI-flyer that was on consignment. I
> was told that "S" just wasn't a popular gauge. I told him that it depended
> on who you talked to and his reply was that there weren't enough of "S"
> gauge people to stock anything. i left and went to Mizell Trains in
> Westminster, CO. they had eight or nine locomotives, several pieces of
> rolling stock, even a Gabe the Lamplighter, two stockyards, a few crossing
> lights, a flyer set and two LTI sets. The help was very friendly and
> helpful. If in Denver see Caboose Hobbies for the sheer size, but no Flyer.
> For Flyer make a short trip out to Mizell Trains!
>
> Sorry for the long post, but I had to share!
>
> gary
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20257 From: Don Thompson Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Re: AM Smoothside Passenger Cars
Dear Jack (or Chris?)
The 10-1-2 and 12-1 are Pullman sleepers. The Cafe car is a model of a
modernized CNJ/Reading Cafe Car.
Don

Chris Zizzo wrote:

> Re: AM Smoothside Passenger Cars, Jack Riely asked:
> >you mentioned in a post that you had some documentation mentioning
> >what the prototypes of these subject cars were. Would you mind sharing
> this
> >material? How about the prototypes used for the LONG heavyweight cars.
>
> Jack:
> All of that was packed away in a storage carton and put away in a public
> storage unit just before we started demolition on the house. I won't see it
> for some time. There was only a piece on the 5 smoothsiders. I have
> nothing on the heavyweights. Don Thompson (of SHS) and Ron Bashista (of AM)
> will be of significantly more help to you on these both.
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20258 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Chicago & Rochelle Illinois
Chris,
This link takes you to Rochelle, Illinois. A town at least 1 hour driving
time west of metro Chicago near Interstates 39 & 88. The main line junctions
of the UP and BNSF are there, and with that--the trains. Rochelle created a
viewing stand for train tourists. I have not been there. If you have a car;
the time; maybe 100+ trains in one day are worth it? The UP runs many grain;
coal and trailer trains. I don't know what the BNSF has for freight through
there, and there might even be several Amtrak trains on the BNSF tracks
there.

John R
<A HREF="http://www.foxdir.net/rrpark/">Click here: Welcome to Rochell RR Park and Gift Shop</A>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20259 From: Bill Lane Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: trucks
Hi All,

Some of you may remember the trucks my friend Gus was making this past
winter. Ted Larson recently asked me if any more were made. I forgot at
first, but remembered another truck that Gus made for me, so I figured I
would pass along a few photos. They are all based on the old Aurora kits
form the 1960s. But, there is a liberal amount of SHS trailer parts and
scratchbuilt parts added.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/LaneTrucking.jpg

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/Texaco.jpg

I just LOVE my new camera!

Enjoy!

Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 20260 From: Steve Blancard Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: Custom Franklin-stein project - it lives!
Franky Lives!

Franky had his first test run tonight. It runs very well and looks
pretty good too. I still have some touch up and fine tuning to do, but
he's just about ready for revenue service.

I've added new photos - Franky-6.jpg through Franky11.jpg and Franky
chassis.jpg to the Custom Franklin folder here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Custom%20Franklin%20Project/

Now I need to start working on the matching Bachmann ON30 passenger
cars... :-)

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 20261 From: thortrains Date: 7/9/2002
Subject: New S Gauge Layouts
Just so you know, I added a handful more layouts to my site at
http://www.thortrains.net Scroll down to the S Gauge section to find
the set of S Gauge pierfront and point-to-point layouts.

As has been said by others, there are tons of layout plans on my site
in various gauges: O / O27, HO, N, G / LS, TT and S. I occasionally
design a few more and add them - all depends on which scale I'm
working on at the moment.

Once I get a caboose, gondola and loop of track, I can get the rest
of the S Gauge section up. Once that's done, there's only Standard
Gauge, OO and Z to go. That might take a few years - they're
expensive! The eventual goal is to have some coverage of each gauge,
and at least 25 track plans / layouts for each. Hopefully all of the
major updates for 2002 can be completed by the first of September.
I'd say not bad for one man's work.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20262 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 7/10/2002
Subject: Re: S IS NOT DEAD
I agree with Roger Hinds that there are
many American Flyer operators and owners
who do not know the NASG or S gauge
magazines exist I was one from 1989
to 1996. I meet many when we operate
our NPSG modular layout at shows
and we give them literature. But this is
about all we can do by having local
clubs exhibit at train shows, the NASG
booth at train shows and advertise in
national magazines which AM and SHS
do. Most American Flyer owners once they
learn of us still do not join or get active. We
have signed up dozens at train shows who
soon after don't have time and drop
out. How many boondock newspapers
are there? This is why we need local clubs
to promote the NASG in local towns.
How many on this list are members of the
NASG?????

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn
NASG secretary

Roger Hinds wrote:
Message: 16
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 12:59:28 -0400
From: IronHorse <cofa@...>
Subject: S is Dead
I get an awful lot of "S" guagers in my
museum. Most of them never heard of
NASG, "S" gauge Herald, S Guagiain.
They are unaware of "S" gauge clubs.
They think they are the only ones using
American Flyer. I think there is at least 3
times as many "S" gaugers out there than
the estimate shows. We just haven't found them.

I kid you not. I have come across
a lot of them. Keep in mind, I live in
a town with a little bitty population way
out in the boondocks. Yes guys I estimate
there are 10s of thousands of unknown
"S" gaugers out there. I bet if each one of us
placed a classified ad looking for "S" gaugers
we would come up with a thousand more guys.

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 20263 From: IronHorse Date: 7/10/2002
Subject: NASG made a bad decision
Glenn Ritter wrote:

>How many on this list are members of the

> NASG?????

I don't know if I am considered a member anymore or not.
I became an original life member when it was first offered. (a charter member)

I got booted out. No fault of my own I still have my membership card.

Will it still be honored by the officers? How many original life members are left?

We are the ones that started it all.

I am the only one with a major AC Gilbert Flyer display in a museum,
and NASG has shown no interest.

Yet, I am discarded by NASG. Phooey NASG turns up its nose at original
members with the excuse of "We can't afford to carry you guys".
In all associations, charter members usually get major discounts off of everything

offered by the club.
We were not notified of the decision of "Kick them out" There was no vote (from
the membership) on that decision. Nothing was offered to us at all. Nothing along
the lines
of, registration fee to conventions are free to charter life members. Free mailings
of notices
of upcoming events. A discount for the publications.

Oh no. You guys get nothing. You don't like it go stand in front of a train. Tough
Toe Nails!

Why am I still upset about this. I considered NASG a major friend to me and I got
the
door slammed in my face along with other members I am sure.

If they were nice about it and said "we have to make adjustments, because we can't
afford
to send you free publications" Then I would have understood and would accept it.

I think they (NASG officers) should find the addresses of all of the original
members, contact
them, and bend over backwards to make amends.

Comments Anyone ???
I sure would like to see some support for the original charter members of NASG.

Roger Hinds

PS; I did get a letter from a NASG official which verifies the above.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20264 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/10/2002
Subject: Re: NASG made a bad decision
Rodger,
IMHO the letter you sent this list should also go to the
NASG. You may have already done so or maybe didn't think they would like to
hear from you. As far as "Booted Out" what was their reasons for that action,
if I may ask.
Again IMHO out is out. Did they do this to all charter members? Is there a
directory of members Like TTOS has? That might be a way to find the other
charter members. I believe they are a Nonprofit org. & you should be entitled
to see a membership list if you are a member. To do this you may have to
rejoin. I'm just guessing on that. Good luck as any org. should answer to
any action they take. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20265 From: trzp1800 Date: 7/10/2002
Subject: ACSG layout at Charlotte, NC Metrolina Show
Hi:
Just wanted to let y'all know that the Atlantic Coast S-Gaugers will
have a modular layout in operation at this coming Saturday's
Metrolina train show in Charlotte NC. Lots of operating accessories,
and YOU get to push the buttons! Show runs 9-4 on Saturday.
Y'all come!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20266 From: Tom Date: 7/10/2002
Subject: Silliness
For those of you whose approach to model trains runs on the whimsical side, check out the Polar Lights "Dick Tracy Space Coupe". I found one on super sale at the local hobby shop. It comes with 4 figures(Dick Tracy, Diet Smith, Junior and Moon Maiden). Dick scales out at 5' 9" on my S scale ruler, and the Space Coupe would make a very unusual load for a flatcar (it has to be shipped partially disassembled and is best shipped on a long,like S Helper Service, flatcar. On my layout, that requires a "special" with slow running orders, making for an interesting problem in the middle of your operating session.

Tom Gerbasi


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20267 From: wintermutedm Date: 7/10/2002
Subject: Re: Chicago
Hi All,

Im not sure if I posted my reply to Chris correctly, so I will try
again, and post it to the group..

If you want to see big trains, and are downtown, go to Union Station
(across the river from the Sears Tower on Adams or Jackson). There,
you can see all sorts of Metra and Amtrak trains waiting.. with the
metra trains, you can walk right up to and check out the engines (hot
and noisy, but I walk past them every day on my way to catch my train
home). If you have time, take a ride on the Metra train out to
Aurora on the BNSF line (I think it is the main line).. the train
passes quite a few side yards with lots of interesting engines, tons
of trailer carrying cars, and even track repair cars and cranes and
the like. Pretty cool: when Im not sleeping on my way home, or
reading, I really enjoy watchng the other trains. The fair isnt bad,
especially if you get a weekend pass. Of course, I would suggest
trying to avoid rush hour: too many people.

Other cool train things to do: If you can, check out the big train
museum out in Union Il... it is on I-90 near (either before or after)
Elgin (out past OHare). I think they have real working steamers out
there.. but check out the website first (http://www.irm.org/)

Also, check out the Museum of Science and Industry.. they have a huge
display (since like before I was born) of toy trains... and they also
have other big trains you can check out: including a streamlined
passenger train in the parking garage and a mock-up of a steam engine
cab to play around in.


There is a pretty massive rail-yard out by OHare: you can see it when
you go south from OHare on I290 (tollroad).. they even have abotu 10
SOO cabeese there. However, Im not sure how to get down to where you
can actually stop and watch it. Maybe look on a map.

Chris: if you want, feel free to email me at dmerritt@...

Hope this helps

Denny

--- In S-Trains@y..., Chris Zizzo <busyboy@o...> wrote:
> Hi guys:
> I am going to Chicago on Friday, the 12, returning home on Tues,
7/16.
>
> Who wants company?
> Any good stuff I should look for?
> Isn't there a train watching site somewhere in the burbs (a
platform for
> watching heavy traffic?)
>
> Chicago, Halllooooo!
>
> Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20269 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 7/10/2002
Subject: Re: S IS NOT DEAD
I have had good luck getting the NASG to send me literature and old magazines
to hand out at the shows and meetings I set up my layout at. I don't know how
many join the NASG, but I know a lot of people are interested in the web sites
promoted in the literature and links associated with the sites.
Every little bit helps.
Howard
Howard's Trains

>I agree with Roger Hinds that there are
>many American Flyer operators and owners
>who do not know the NASG or S gauge
>magazines exist
_______________________________________________________________________
Internet Access, Shared & Dedicated Web Hosting.
Colocation and Domain Name Registration at http://www.lanset.net
Group: S-Trains Message: 20270 From: David Dewey Date: 7/10/2002
Subject: Re: Silliness
Cool!!
Think I'd just park it in the precinct parking lot and see if anyone
noticed! What kind of stores might carry this stuff out here in the Wild
West?
S'
David D.
PS, If you're gonna tell me "Your local hobby shop" than better post Howard
S.!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20271 From: Steve Blancard Date: 7/10/2002
Subject: Custom Franky test file
I have added a text file describing the special features of my Franky
loco. It can be found in the Custom Franklin Project folder here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Custom%20Franklin%20Project/

Steve Blancard
Crustyfour
Group: S-Trains Message: 20272 From: Gale Hall Date: 7/10/2002
Subject: NASG
Roger,

Take a deep breath, exhale and get over it.

It would seem unreasonable to think the $3 forever membership in the early 1960's, would really run forever. These were guys that loved S and covered alot of cost right out of their pocket....In those years we didn't even have a newsletter to start with, we had the circuits to get the news around.....

I fully understand your pride in being a charter member, those were great times, think I had card #3 or #5 for several years there. Guess charter member were the guys that got it together and working, where new members would be able to join a working organization and not have all the early headaches......

Sometimes it seems like the UNITED in the logo, should read UNTIED......we seem to be our own worst enemy.

As for the discounts, remember the discount sheets that used to come with the membership...remember the S Catalog...

Sometimes the push for new members, sort of crashes over current members and takes them for granted, just happens to be the way most any organization works, not great and not terrible, but just the way it works.

I think the move to yearly dues was fairly well explained at the time, and we understood it was the need to move forward and the funds to do so. If Ed Schumacher was still alive, I feel certain he would send a letter of apology and extend the welcome hand to press on...Problem there is he isn't and few remember....and a 6 cent stamp just gets the letter back to whence it came today.

Wish there wasn't a sour taste for the NASG, but if you join and work from within the efforts will be much more fruitful than kicking a dead horse to spur some action. And promote the Museum display yourself, or wait and maybe someone will find it and write it up one of these days, at least you can explain the efforts you made to get it into place and how to do it elsewhere.

What we need in the NASG is everyone pushing in the same direction, not just pushing...And maybe we can print a list of Charter Members in the Dispatch, personally I"d rather see the time and space spent to get some interesting facet of S in print, perhaps a construction article or a repair article, but if you do join the NASG again at least you can watch for the list and not miss that issue of the Dispatch.

gale hall


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20273 From: IronHorse Date: 7/10/2002
Subject: Re: NASG
Glenn Ritter wrote:

> Hi Roger,
>
> You say you are a life member but
> are you receiving the NASG Dispatch?

No

>
> Why isn't your name in the membership
> directory?

Only the person that took my name off can answer that.

I also have certificates of award from Convention contests.
I won so many awards at one NASG contest that the person
making the
presentations said. "You have won so much we aren't
inviting you back"
And they didn't! I still have the awards from that
contest.
I, along with Frank Laprise (RailRoad Printers) started
the Norfolk County
Line RR club. This was an "S" gauge club. It only worked
out for a couple of
years. Seems to me Frank also became a life member (NASG)
about the same time I did.
We had several Train shows with my "S" gauge layout being
the feature.

A person doesn't get awards at a NASG convention unless they
are a member.
Same with a membership card. The fact I have the card
should outweigh the lack
of my name in the NASG files. It is obviously an old worn
card. Any idiot could tell
it has been around for a long time. It has a signature by
the person that sent it to me.

I am member # 456 the date on the card is 3-22-71. It
says on the lower left corner
"GOOD FOR LIFE"
The card is right here, under my nose.

I remember meeting Frank Titman a number of times at train
shows. And NMRA
shows as well. I knew many members of the Bristol club. I
haven't seen any of the
in over 20 years. I moved out of their area. I wasn't a
member of their club, but I remember
them having a table at one of our train shows in Stoughton
Mass.
Several times over the years I have written to a NASG
offical asking about my membership.
The basic response was, "I don't want to hear about it, go
away"
I never got a proper truthfull response as to why I was
dropped.

Roger Hinds


>
>
> I don't know your age although Frank Titman
> is in his late 70s. I spent all my life in the
> Northeast corridor. You or the original
> charter members never reached out to
> me and I was building S in the 50s.
> Bob Jackson's history notes that
> Claude Wade may have started circuits
> in 1957 but he did not notify all American
> Flyer dealers to recruit members or I would
> have heard through my Uncle Bud, who was
> well established in 1954.
>
> There is a lot of recorded history about
> the NASG and it can be read on the
> NASG website:
> http://www.nasg.org
>
> Our club has shows and exhibits our
> modular layout at a local restaurant
> which reaches 100s of non-NASG
> members each year. I guess I am disappointed
> that earlier NASG members did not
> try to reach local S gaugers but seemed to
> huddle around their flickering layouts.
>
> Sorry Roger but the NASG is still struggling
> to find new, active members.
>
> Glenn
Group: S-Trains Message: 20274 From: IronHorse Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Re: NASG
Gale Hall wrote:

> Roger,
>
> Take a deep breath, exhale and get over it.

I guess I should be more blunt. The original letter of explanation I got was VERY RUDE.
I got mad and threw it away. I wish I kept it. The date of my Life membership is in 1971.
The NASG officers should have smartened up by then and realized $3.00 was to low for
a life membership.
Oh, I still have all The NASG dispatch stuff sent to me back then. Original address labels.
I wonder if my membership number is on the address label?
Perhaps I should check.

>
>
> It would seem unreasonable to think the $3 forever membership in the early 1960's, would really run forever.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20275 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Be AWARE
Please be aware of any e-mail that comes from
SeaShoreSD Received # 53453454345 That is the heading
I opened it & was attacked with 9 virus. I got them all out Or I wouldn't be
writing this to you guys. so be care full as it looks something like an E-BAY
item. I opened it due to a lot of sales in the past week. In side it then
asks for your E-mail address & AOL Password, But by then it is too late just
opening the letter to read it is enough to infect you. I could not even
access my Norton to run a scan I had to get AOL Tech To give me a free McAfee
download just to get Norton to take over and clean things up. Took about 3
hrs. Be careful Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20276 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Re: NASG
Gentlemen and Gentlewomen:
I have been an s-gauger since 1948, am past the retirement age, and do
harbor many memories from the past on many different topics, so please
bear with me on the following.

It does seem as though the original life members of the NASG received a
less than happy ending. To harbor such bitterness for more than 30
years is not good for the group or individual. I propose that NASG
provide a free membership for a year for those original members who feel
hurt and alienated by what happened in the early 1970's. A years'
membership isn't so much, but may help to alleviate the ill will that
has built up over the past many years. I will donate the cost for up to
5 memberships to help bring these s-supporters back into the NASG (would
the secretary please contact me by e-mail with the cost particulars).
On the other hand, the original members will have to do most of the
work themselves to repair the bad feelings that apparently many have
(although we have heard only from one). The people who make up and run
the NASG are undoubtedly NOT the same people who ran it 30 or 40 years
ago, and they and the NASG shouldn't be held responsible for something
that happened so long ago.

Of course, in retrospect, reality says that a life membership for $3 in
1961 couldn't be maintained until infinity (read lifetime). It does
sound as though these original members did get quite a bit for their $3
and possibly should look on that positive side. Additionally, the human
mind can be very selective in its memories, but in this case should not
affect our efforts to help. It is never too late to start anew on
something one likes. And NASG can use help from all s-gaugers.
Regards to all,
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)

IronHorse wrote:

>
>Glenn Ritter wrote:
>
>>Hi Roger,
>>
>>You say you are a life member but
>>are you receiving the NASG Dispatch?
>>
>
>No
>
>>Why isn't your name in the membership
>>directory?
>>
>
>Only the person that took my name off can answer that.
>
>I also have certificates of award from Convention contests.
>I won so many awards at one NASG contest that the person
>making the
>presentations said. "You have won so much we aren't
>inviting you back"
>And they didn't! I still have the awards from that
>contest.
> I, along with Frank Laprise (RailRoad Printers) started
>the Norfolk County
>Line RR club. This was an "S" gauge club. It only worked
>out for a couple of
>years. Seems to me Frank also became a life member (NASG)
>about the same time I did.
> We had several Train shows with my "S" gauge layout being
>the feature.
>
>A person doesn't get awards at a NASG convention unless they
>are a member.
>Same with a membership card. The fact I have the card
>should outweigh the lack
>of my name in the NASG files. It is obviously an old worn
>card. Any idiot could tell
>it has been around for a long time. It has a signature by
>the person that sent it to me.
>
>I am member # 456 the date on the card is 3-22-71. It
>says on the lower left corner
>"GOOD FOR LIFE"
>The card is right here, under my nose.
>
>I remember meeting Frank Titman a number of times at train
>shows. And NMRA
>shows as well. I knew many members of the Bristol club. I
>haven't seen any of the
>in over 20 years. I moved out of their area. I wasn't a
>member of their club, but I remember
>them having a table at one of our train shows in Stoughton
>Mass.
> Several times over the years I have written to a NASG
>offical asking about my membership.
>The basic response was, "I don't want to hear about it, go
>away"
>I never got a proper truthfull response as to why I was
>dropped.
>
>Roger Hinds
>
>
>>
>>I don't know your age although Frank Titman
>>is in his late 70s. I spent all my life in the
>>Northeast corridor. You or the original
>>charter members never reached out to
>>me and I was building S in the 50s.
>>Bob Jackson's history notes that
>>Claude Wade may have started circuits
>>in 1957 but he did not notify all American
>>Flyer dealers to recruit members or I would
>>have heard through my Uncle Bud, who was
>>well established in 1954.
>>
>>There is a lot of recorded history about
>>the NASG and it can be read on the
>>NASG website:
>>http://www.nasg.org
>>
>>Our club has shows and exhibits our
>>modular layout at a local restaurant
>>which reaches 100s of non-NASG
>>members each year. I guess I am disappointed
>>that earlier NASG members did not
>>try to reach local S gaugers but seemed to
>>huddle around their flickering layouts.
>>
>>Sorry Roger but the NASG is still struggling
>>to find new, active members.
>>
>>Glenn
>>
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20277 From: IronHorse Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: NASG & more
Read on and on my windy letter guys. All kinds of stuff. Not everything is negative.

Gale Hall wrote: to

> Roger,
>
> Take a deep breath, exhale and get over it.

You don't know what it is like to get booted out. It is like getting fired from a job
you dedicated your life to, and the boss said, get lost. You may be good but we can't
afford to carry you anymore. Only this time (from NASG) no one said anything. The door was slammed
in my face and locked. The attitude; "Don't care about your life membership buddy. Wanna get back in, $20 bucks will do it."
RUDE RUDE RUDE.

> Sometimes it seems like the UNITED in the logo, should read UNTIED......we seem to be our own worst enemy.

cancel me from the word "WE"

> Sometimes the push for new members, sort of crashes over current members and takes them for granted, just happens to be the way most any organization works, not great and not terrible, but just the way it works.

So the members should suffer for it? You mean corrections shouldn't be made.
Gee, Great for public relations isn't it.

> I think the move to yearly dues was fairly well explained at the time,

No it wasn't. I challenge you to find an article explaining why life members were dropped.
Keep in mind I still have my copies of the Herald and dispatch. Which one explains it?

> If Ed Schumacher was still alive, I feel certain he would send a letter of apology and extend the welcome hand to press on..

Yes, he would. What was wrong with the other guys?

> . And promote the Museum display yourself, or wait and maybe someone will find it and write it up one of these days, at least you can explain the efforts you made to get it into place and how to do it elsewhere.

The attitude above tells me. "Who cares about your "S" museum. We aren't interested"

Excuse me buddy. I have had the museum for over 20 years. What do you mean "one of these days" Are you going to wait until I am pushing up daisies. My museum was conceived about 1956.
It took all that time to get it to where it is today. I think I paid my dues in effort/and skill for recognition whether I am a member of NASG or not.
And you wonder why I am irked at NASG?
My museum was written up in several local newspapers (front page) and the New Hampshire
Profile magazine.
I did write to NASG about the museum when my museum was first opened. Ignored.
Way up in Northern New Hampshire. Who cares.
Some fellows in "S" journeyed from Southern New England way up here just to see my display. The comment from all? "I am glad I came to your museum."
One nice fellow came all the way from Florida. He was so impressed he set up a full blown
web site for my museum. I didn't have a computer at the time.

What else do I have to offer.
I live in one of the best places for a model railroad convention. Maybe thee best. (almost?)

We have:

Crossroads of America. (my place)
Howies Toy trains (he has an AF model rr last I knew) and more.
North Conway RR ( a trip through the mountains) Nice collection of rolling stock.
The historical, Cog railroad (A trip into the clouds)
The Hobo Railroad.
Hartmans museum. ( a real big collection) Bigger then the train collectors place in Strasburg Penn.
The White mountain Central. (at Clarks trading post)
The only existing original ball signal in The US. In Whitefield NH. (nearby)

And a couple of great old fashioned Hotels for a convention. (both completely renovated)
Spit and polish. Makes other convention centers look like amateurs.

That is what I have to offer the membership of NASG

> I"d rather see the time and space spent to get some interesting facet of S in print, perhaps a construction article or a repair article

I should do a train article ?
My web site is my train article. NASG wasn't interested. Nor was Classic Toy
Trains. Not the other magazines either. Yes I wrote to them. I let them know I am here and asked if they might be interested. No reply.
How many times did they write a train article, without the owner of the display lifting a pen.
Go To HTTP://www.Travel.to/cofa. Click on the train and other RR pictures as indicated.
Read the text. And then tell me why NASG isn't interested.
In one breath some guys say promote NASG. In another they breath they indicate, "otherwise
don't bother me".

Gales comment "Promote the museum yourself " says, Don't bother Gale with it, he isn't interested. That isn't exactly working together pal. If you was sincere about "S" gauge you
would jump at the chance to help promote an old existing "S" museum.

OHhhh BOYyyyyy ! if you knew what I am working on now. The local people here know.
They can't wait to see my completed project. A big historical project using AC Gilbert trains.

I have gone wayyyyyy beyond train articles. I could put together a great convention setting it up by
my little ole lonesome. I just would need people for clinics and to direct people in the right
direction.

Well, time for me to get off of the preachers soap box again. I will go and bang my head on
the wall for blowing off to much steam.

Roger Hinds



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20278 From: Bill Lane Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: The REAL real Pennsy S Models Update
Hi All,

I am VERY happy to announce the photos of our new S Scale X-29 pilot model
have been posted to our website. www.pennsysmodels.com Please give a look.
We are still fine tuning it, but are VERY happy with it. We have come a long
way from this time last year, compared to the original pilot model photo at
the bottom of the photos page.

We still have a few cars available. Please do not hesitate to contact us. We
would like to thank all of our customers for being so patient with us. The
end product will be well worth the wait.

Thank You,

Bill Lane Dan Mastrobuono
Pennsy S Models
Group: S-Trains Message: 20279 From: Don Thompson Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Re: NASG
Like most things in life, changes occur all of the time. How many of the original BOT members were on the
NASG board in 1971? How many members from 1971 are still even part of the NASG? In 1971 all the NASG did was
assign conventions. They had no standards or standards gauge, little if any promotions, no Dispatch news
magazine, no annual AF cars or scale projects. All they had was a membership card. I think their is no one left
at the NASG to be mad at.
Don

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20280 From: joshseltzer Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Re: NASG
Back in 1967 or so I paid my $3 and received my card (#65 I think).
The NASG of the 60's and early 70's is NOT the NASG INC. of today.
In the mid 70's the NASG evolved into another entity in which annual
dues were required from all (well almost all except for honorary
life members like me) and the Dispatch magazine was included with the
membership. NASG evolved from circuit letter groups from the 50's &
60's and loosely knit regional groups like NESGA into an organization
in the 60's and by the mid 70's became a new incorporated non-profit
group. In my opinion no one was "booted out". The old group ended
and it's role was assumed by a new corporation. This new "NASG INC"
had increased costs (a magazine etc.) and was created and voted in by
the "old" NASG membership at an annual meeting based on the premise
on annual dues. I remember, I was there. I guess the details have
been fogged by the mists of time as I do not remember the exact
details and must check my "archives" on this.

Joshua Seltzer
1977 Bernie Thomas Award Life Member NASG, INC.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20281 From: IronHorse Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Re: NASG
> (well almost all except for honorary life members like me)

Well earned. You guys contributed a lot in one way or another

> In my opinion no one was "booted out".

What term would you use ( to describe) when a person is no longer considered a
member even though he has a life member card. I still say there was no mention of
the decision
outside of that meeting. So, what is the excuse of not informing those that were not

at the meeting. What is the excuse for not publishing the result of the meeting.
Just how many members were at that meeting?
I can't help but wonder, was it a meeting consisting of only the NASG officials?
If so, then it would indicate the members at large had no say in the decision.
The absentee members should have had a say in the decision.
What percentage of life members approved of this. I bet less than 10 percent.
I still have my old heralds and dispatches/bullitins. I would like to see for
myself.
Someone please tell me which issue. Someone has to know the date that NASG
became NASG INC. That would indicate when a notice was published if any.

Important note guys: When I politely, asked for answers back in the seventies. All
I got was an evasive letter. No explanation except, Pay $20 to continue to be a
member. Otherwise, tough. The letter was almost that rude.

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 20282 From: nasglibrary Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Re: Roger Hinds and Mike S's comments about NASG
I too am (was?) a member of the original NASG, holding membership card
#003. When the NASG incorporated they lost me too. I didn't rejoin
until about eight years had passed.

Let me tell you what happened -- for real.

The NASG (pre- "NASG Inc.") had no source of income to sustain
activities. All it got from members was a one-time "lifetime"
membership fee of $3. Carrying on business without funds became
impossible, so a corporate charter for "NASG Inc." was drawn up and
adopted by the NASG officers at the time, and incorporation took place
in the state of New York in 1976.

The practical consequence of incorporation was not the evolution if the
NASG to NASG Inc. Rather, it was the death of NASG with its $3 lifetime
memberships and lack of coherent structure, and the birth of NASG Inc.
with its yearly dues and organized management.

An attempt was made to contact existing members at the time of
incorporation. But is should come as no surprise that a lot of members
were lost for a variety of reasons ranging from poor record-keeping to
just plain laziness on the part of volunteer committee members.

I was so miffed that I figured I could live without the NASG. But when
one of my S gauge friends told me details about the upcoming 1985 NASG
convention in Sacramento, with pre-convention activities in Reno and a
train ride from Reno throuigh Donner Pass to Sacramento, I couldn't
resist. I (re)joined and have never regretted it.

We were treated poorly during the transition (discontinuity) from
non-Inc. to Inc. But holding a grudge today because of insulting
treatment a quarter-century ago does no one any good. The fellowship,
services, publications, and vendor coordination/awareness afforded by
today's NASG Inc. can't be beat.

Dick Karnes
Group: S-Trains Message: 20283 From: IronHorse Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: NASG
Correct me if I am wrong. It appears some guys are trying to whitewash/cover up
the mistake of NASG INC. way back then. At least it appears so.

Why? The answer just came to me. Those guys (way back then) were highly respected
members voted in by the group at large. Nobody wants to know they made a bad
decision. Or at the
least, handled it poorly. If there is an official change of heart by NASG, then it
is a
black eye on those officials way back then. Wouldn't want that.

And there are those of you that agree with me, and would like a correction made.

I can't help but wonder about the opinion of the thoughts of people that haven't
responded to this issue. I know some think "drop it".

Has anyone noticed, no one said or tried to indicate that I am wrong in my
statements.
No one has actually said "You aren't a member of NASG" Why? because I have a card
to prove I am.

Notice, the NASG executives haven't touched this issue yet.

I have been keeping copies from guys responding to this. So far the votes are in my
favor.

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 20284 From: IronHorse Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Comments on NASG
Very good reply from Dick Karnes. I made a few comments below

nasglibrary wrote:

> I too am (was?) a member of the original NASG, holding membership card
> #003. When the NASG incorporated they lost me too. I didn't rejoin
> until about eight years had passed.

Aha ! I wasn't the only one.

> in the state of New York in 1976.

Would you know which month? Was anything published about the meeting?

>
> An attempt was made to contact existing members at the time of
> incorporation.

How come they couldn't find us from the mailing list of the dispatch?
I hadn't moved. My old address was good up into the 90s.

>
> I was so miffed that I figured I could live without the NASG.

I guess I am still miffed is because NASG has ignored my letters sent now and then.
I was never rude in my letters. The most recent one was when I opened my museum.
I got no comment from it.


> I (re)joined and have never regretted it.

I am glad you did. There are a lot of great guys in NAGS.

>
>
> We were treated poorly during the transition (discontinuity) from
> non-Inc. to Inc. But holding a grudge today because of insulting
> treatment a quarter-century ago does no one any good.

I think my grudge is based on what hasn't happened since.
However I am getting a lot of good response from the members ar large,
which I thank you all for.

> The fellowship,
> services, publications, and vendor coordination/awareness afforded by
> today's NASG Inc. can't be beat.

Agreed, 100 percent.


>

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 20285 From: IronHorse Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Ack !!! I'm sorry, I'm sorry
I didn't mean to type in NAGS instead of NASG.
I'm sorry to everyone for that error.

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 20286 From: joshseltzer Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Re: NASG
Back in those days there was a regular NASG section at the back of
each S Gauge Herald Magazine. The changes were clearly discussed in
those articles. What happened was the the membership and officers
decided to change to a new type of organization and some folks for
whatever reason did not come along with the change. There is
no "them" to boot anyone out. The NASG was and is just the sum of a
group of members electing officers to cary out the policies they
prefer. As in all groups not everyone may agree with the changes but
I guess that the majority ruled in this case in deciding to change
and move foreward.

Like I stated in a past message I do not remember the exact details.
I must look this weekend into my old SGH library. I was a "new kid"
on the S gauge block back then and just an observer to the NASG
events.

The NASG of today is a decendent perhaps of a previous NASG but is a
totaly different orginization performing many functions. A number of
years ago I was an officer (Treasurer) and I have great respect for
those who have served the organization as officers and have tried to
move S gauge foreward during times when many folks would have thrown
in the towel. Just look at the old SGH articles and you will see.

Josh Seltzer




--- In S-Trains@y..., IronHorse <cofa@t...> wrote:
> > (well almost all except for honorary life members like me)
>
> Well earned. You guys contributed a lot in one way or another
>
> > In my opinion no one was "booted out".
>
> What term would you use ( to describe) when a person is no longer
considered a
> member even though he has a life member card. I still say there
was no mention of
> the decision
> outside of that meeting. So, what is the excuse of not informing
those that were not
>
> at the meeting. What is the excuse for not publishing the result
of the meeting.
> Just how many members were at that meeting?
> I can't help but wonder, was it a meeting consisting of only the
NASG officials?
> If so, then it would indicate the members at large had no say in
the decision.
> The absentee members should have had a say in the decision.
> What percentage of life members approved of this. I bet less than
10 percent.
> I still have my old heralds and dispatches/bullitins. I would
like to see for
> myself.
> Someone please tell me which issue. Someone has to know the date
that NASG
> became NASG INC. That would indicate when a notice was published
if any.
>
> Important note guys: When I politely, asked for answers back in
the seventies. All
> I got was an evasive letter. No explanation except, Pay $20 to
continue to be a
> member. Otherwise, tough. The letter was almost that rude.
>
> Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 20287 From: IronHorse Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Re: NASG
> I guess that the majority ruled in this case in deciding to change
> and move foreward.

And I still ask. Who, was "the majority" The entire NASG membership?
Or a group of Officials.?

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 20288 From: pieter_roos Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Re: NASG
The history of the organization is published on the web at

http://www.nasg.org/articles_1.html

You do not need to be a member to access it.

Pieter

--- In S-Trains@y..., IronHorse <cofa@t...> wrote:
> > I guess that the majority ruled in this case in deciding to change
> > and move foreward.
>
> And I still ask. Who, was "the majority" The entire NASG
membership?
> Or a group of Officials.?
>
> Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 20289 From: rkuepper Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Marx Crossing Bell
I have an old Marx ringer I want to use on my hi-rail layout. What is the best way to have a train activate it? I would like it to ring a few times if possible, but not continuously while the whole train passes. I'm using Gargraves track.

Thanks.
Dick


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20290 From: Rick Evans Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Walthers Catalog....
I picked up a "free" Walthers catalog today, (the new ones are out so they
are giving away the old ones), 448 pages of train stuff for all gauges. I haven't looked at
one in a while,..do to the lack of "S" goodies,...is it me or is there actually more "S" goodies
in the catalog??
The new American Flyer is in it, along with S-Helper Service, seems like more
buildings, some Ertl farm vehicles, same old 1/72 scale figures though. Either I missed this all before,..or more "S" is being added,..which, Like Martha Stewart would say,.."Is a good thing!"

Ahhh....just noticed, for one thing, no HO in this catalog,...says, "Big Trains". G, O, & S.


Rick.
NASG member #00R0184W


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20291 From: The Reis's Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Re: trolleys are running! and VW news
To Ironhorse: 1:1 scale Yakima, Washington, real trolley cars running
around the city.

Jacques: Glad you are OK, We need all the S guys we can keep especially in
the northwest.

I remember a few years ago they moved all the Trolley stuff from Snoqualmie
to Yakima. Is this part of what is being run? I gotta get over there and
see those one of these days.

I got a couple of those busses in the Monopoly game paint scheme a while
back, I am going to repaint them one of these days. Pretty nice busses
though.

eric reis
Kenmore, Wa.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jollivier4@... [mailto:Jollivier4@...]
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 8:32 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] trolleys are running! and VW news


Hi guys,

The Yakima trolleys made their first runs in years this past weekend! They
will run through Labor Day. It's great to have them back.

We returned from Alaska with a most likely totalled VW camper bus (thanks to
a British Columbia drunk driver). We were lucky to walk away. While in
Juneau I picked up a nice Johnny Lightning 13 window bus and single cab pick
up. It looks right on scale. My 8 year old picked up a nice bug (VW that
is).

Good to be alive and be back.

Jacques

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 20292 From: Mike Vana Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: Joining NASG
Regarding the comments about joining NASG, and
possibility of a lot bigger membership by S
gaugers, some people don't join organizations
because they are just not club oriented. In other
cases there is only so much time and money to
spend, and if one can't contribute anything,
or see a real benefit in membership in an
organization, he is probably wasting
his time and money, although there is nothing
wrong in helping the organization financially.

In my case, I already belong to the CNW, Milwaukee,
and UP Historical Societies, two railfan clubs, and
last year rejoined a model train club that I dropped
out from 27 years earlier. In addition to subscribing
to several train and model train magazines, I don't
have much time to read everything that comes my way,
especially with all the things that go with owning a
house, and spending time on the model railroad.
I don't care about going to conventions, either.


I have O, HO, HOn3, and G scale, as well as S, and
looking at model railroading today, times have never
been better for any scale. It's time for people
to drop that "poor us" attitude. It's good to promote
model railroading and S gauge in particular, but
no one should worry about either one dying out.

I have nothing against the NASG or NMRA, but simply
have had to make priorities, and choose the things
that are most important and/or interesting to me.

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20293 From: David Dewey Date: 7/11/2002
Subject: NASG and NASG
Well, I've been reading this all, and I do remember some of the stuff that
was in the Heralds, heck, somewhere I even have an early NASG, Inc.
membership card, if the mice haven't eaten it.
The unfortunate thing is that the new organization chose to keep the NASG
title. In hindsight, it probably would have helped if they'd chosen a
completely different name. That being said, there is something else that
might be a good idea.
Let us somehow recognize those early S promoters of the first NASG. I really
doubt we can find a "membership roster" (but if we can, great!) to list
them, but we could offer something like a certificate (a nice one, not a
cheapie [and this from the CHEAP! guy!]) in recognition of support back in
the "dark days" when ACG quit, and we were floundering around looking for a
way to keep S alive. It MIGHT smooth over some ruffled feathers, and I think
it's a valid thing to do. A write-up in the Dispatch once most of the "lost
numbers" have been found would be important too, so the acknowledgement of
the recognition is spread to the entire membership. Might consider some
posthumous ones too.
Well that's my idea!
S'
David D.
PS the recognition should go to all original card holders, even those that
aren't members of the present organization.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20294 From: Don Thompson Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Re: NASG and NASG
Dear David,
I think that by far the majority of members would have moved in the last 30
years.
Don

David Dewey wrote:

> Well, I've been reading this all, and I do remember some of the stuff that
> was in the Heralds, heck, somewhere I even have an early NASG, Inc.
> membership card, if the mice haven't eaten it.
> The unfortunate thing is that the new organization chose to keep the NASG
> title. In hindsight, it probably would have helped if they'd chosen a
> completely different name. That being said, there is something else that
> might be a good idea.
> Let us somehow recognize those early S promoters of the first NASG. I really
> doubt we can find a "membership roster" (but if we can, great!) to list
> them, but we could offer something like a certificate (a nice one, not a
> cheapie [and this from the CHEAP! guy!]) in recognition of support back in
> the "dark days" when ACG quit, and we were floundering around looking for a
> way to keep S alive. It MIGHT smooth over some ruffled feathers, and I think
> it's a valid thing to do. A write-up in the Dispatch once most of the "lost
> numbers" have been found would be important too, so the acknowledgement of
> the recognition is spread to the entire membership. Might consider some
> posthumous ones too.
> Well that's my idea!
> S'
> David D.
> PS the recognition should go to all original card holders, even those that
> aren't members of the present organization.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20295 From: IronHorse Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: NASG AWwww Mannnn!
Gee whizz. I read the information from NASG Inc. On the decision they made.

It was all done wrong and illegal from the getgo.

I read all this with a heavy heart. Today I am walking around dragging it on the
floor.

I don't like to be wrong. However this time I wish I was. I think I would have
felt
better if I was wrong.

In reading the NASG Inc. report you can see the membership had no say in what
happens to the life members. They (the NASG officials) say they tried to get the
group together. They gave a lame excuse for not doing it.

According to the report they needed to change the name of NASG to legally make the
major
adjustments. (eliminating the life membership).

The report admits they did not change the name. They just added INC. No legal
beagle would recognize that as a name change.

So, according to the report The original life members still are life members.
Because there
was no name change. The group did not disband. They retained all the members.
(at least those that agreed to pay the $20 annual dues).

The report actually indicates life memberships will no longer be honored.

But anyway anyone can see, it was all done behind closed doors. All decisions were
made by a select few.

I saw nothing wrong with NASG before this was done. The conventions were a big
hit. I understand the need for more revenue at the time. They could have made a
portion
of the convention open to the public. A one day train show. The rest just for us.
The train show not only would have raised a lot of money, it would have given the
hobby
much needed exposure. This may have gained more members. How many potential members

were lost to this policy (not open to the public) over the years? Is my memory
accurate on this?

I think some NASG official (at that time) was in a mode of. "Oh my god!, We need to
make
more money". He convinced the other officials.
Hence ............... the rest of the story.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20296 From: IronHorse Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Old membership list
I know one of you has a list of members pre NASG Inc.
Are you willing to make it available, whoever you are?

Put the list on this forum. The rest of us WILL be able to
locate
most of the people or know what happened to them.
We just need their names and (former ) addresses.

Seems to me the list was provided to everyone at one time
in the form of a directory. I still have a very old NMRA
directory. So one of you has an old NASG directory of
some sort. I will go and look to see if I have something.

I wonder how all of you would feel if the forgotten life
members showed up at a convention after being re-
instated? Proud or what ?!?
I could get high on that moment.

Roger Hinds


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20297 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: NASG etc.
I want to put in my two cents worth on the "membership" debate.
I keep membership in NASG, TCA, and my local Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers so
that I can stay "connected" to the "S" Community. I have had a simnilar
experience in the Amateur Radio community that Roger had with NASG. I finally
had to adopt the philosophy that one can't go on blaming the Sons or
Grandsons of perpetrators for what their ancestors did. Once I was able to do
that my bitterness stopped and I could get on with my life. I hope that
others will be able to do that as well.

Steve Blackburn..."S-'n-S Trains....Boise, Idaho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20298 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Re: NASG etc.
I've tried to be patient about a few people's hurt feelings and just deleted these
messages, but enough is enough. Quit crying over mistakes made 25 years ago and get
on with life!

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO
Group: S-Trains Message: 20299 From: IronHorse Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Why On a Public forum?
An Analogy to explain "why on a public forum"?

From my town Charles Wolcott died in WW II. A good friend of

his wanted a bridge named after Charles (Charles had been
forgotten by
everyone else) To be brief, Public pressure corrected this and
got
the bridge named after him. It took 2 years of public pressure.

The politicians said, enough I don't want to hear it anymore.
So Charles got his just recognition because a lot of people said
"It
should be done"
So I feel NASG Inc. (not Glen) Should feel pressure from the
entire
membership.

So about this issue. I am not looking for praise or an
award.
I am saying "A wrong was done and something should be done
about it".
To date, NASG Inc. hasn't said "I'm sorry" As far as I can
see,
NASG Inc. hasn't reached out to the old Life members. I have
always
been here. I'm easy to find.

By the way Glen, You are a good guy. When I say NASG Inc. I
don't
mean Glen Ritter, not even the NASG Inc. officials of today.
I am referring to the entity NASG inc. Should do something.
I don't expect the President of NASG Inc. to say "I'm Sorry"
A letter should say "NASG Inc. is sorry, and adjustments will
be made."
The signature can be something like. "Approved by .. (staff
names)."
If the staff wants to say they are personally sorry, that is
their decision, but not
necessary. Not to me. To everyone.
Although if the NASG Inc. officials of today don't do
anything, Then they will
owe an apology. So far I assume they are hashing it over
deciding what to do.
Understood ! That makes good sense.

If one of those original officials that made the decision are
still alive then
they owe an apology for sure.

Is there a mention of regret on the NASG Inc. web site?
Does the Web site ask all original life members to contact them?

As far as contacting the NASG Inc. Privately goes. Tried that.
Nothing happened.
So we are here making it public so the members can have input.
Also I want it corrected for everyone. Not just me.

By the way, I am getting private mailing in support of the
former life members.
Since you haven't seen these I will forward them to you if you
like.
There is a bunch of them.

Where would we be today if. NASG Inc. Said something like.
"Due to expenses, all
life members are asked to pay $20 in dues less 10 percent
because of your status.
Furthermore registration fees at conventions are free for Life
members?"
Now, that would have been good, and would not put NASG Inc.
in a financial bind.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20300 From: Gary Chidester Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Please help one of the ignorant.
Can anyone tell me why this 913 is so much more valuable than the ones that
are listed in any of the guides? It looks just like mine and I know I
wouldn't get this much if it were on e-Bay.

gary

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1747539439
Group: S-Trains Message: 20301 From: joshseltzer Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Re: NASG
OK guys I have one more comment on the events of 30 years ago and
then I must move on (I have a convention to run). This thread struck
a nerve with me and the history (a great one at that but it did not
include discussions held at the conventions at the time) we very
helpful. The S Gauge Herald was communication medium at the time. I
recall that there were many at the time who were happy with things as
they were. I was one of a number of "young guys" who were defiantly
not. If not for foreword thinking folks like Frank Titman, Ed
Schumacher ,John Sudimak, Howard Sandusky and others my S gauge
experience would have ended about 1971 and I and many of my peers I
suspect would be in O or HO today. We could not even get scale
wheelsets for our trucks around that time and things were looking
pretty grim for the future of S. There may have been those who did
not want change but without it there would have been no future for
new blood to enter our scale. Ed was a forceful guy and I believe he
set us on the road to the present. As the history states the old
NASG was ended and a new NASG INC created in its place. There is an
old saying ""you can't make on omelet without breaking eggs" I
understand there were hard feelings and some were hurt. Okay lets
accept the past and move on already. Back then in our wildest
imagination, S gauge convention late night closing the bar fantasies
we would never, never have contemplated 25% of what we have seen
produced in S in the last 15 years! Many of he folks who shook
things up and got things moving are no longer with us and we must
weigh their methods at the time to the eventual success of their
actions. The NASG board and committees of today is a totally
different group than 30 years ago and operates on a mandate started
by all those who showed support by initially paying annual dues and
participating. Crying in long stale beer of long ago spilt milk
seems to me a bit shallow in the face of history of a growth of S
from 1972 to 2002. Look where we have come and support those trying
to move things further foreword. Lets give some credit for the
success of these in the past and forgive those transgressions they
made along the way as their intentions and goals were to better the S
future for all of us.
Now, lets all focus on the future. We need a new generation of S
gauges of all types and we need to stay focused on the future to
recruit and keep them. Before you travel the NASG 2002 convention
this month take a look at a 70's S Gauge Herald, read some of the
vision of Ed Schumacher and then come and see what has become of the
S Gauge scene of today. Come on guys, lets move foreword and keep
the train rolling. That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Josh Seltzer
Group: S-Trains Message: 20302 From: IronHorse Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Re: NASG etc.
boss31@... wrote:

> I finally had to adopt the philosophy that one can't go on blaming the Sons or
> Grandsons of perpetrators for what their ancestors did.

You will (hopefully) notice I did not blame todays people.
However they are in position to do something about it.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20303 From: IronHorse Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Thank you.
I just want to thank you for confirming that there are those that don't care.

"Roger V. Petrella Jr." wrote:

> I've tried to be patient about a few people's hurt feelings and just deleted these
> messages, but enough is enough. Quit crying over mistakes made 25 years ago and get
> on with life!
>
> Roger Petrella
> Franktown, CO
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
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Group: S-Trains Message: 20304 From: splitdorf@1bigred.com Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Re: Why On a Public forum?
I sure wish one of you NASG bigshots would apologize to this guy so this thread can be put to bed. I don't have enough cheese to go with all the whine.

Can we get back to taking about trains now ?

Steve Blancard
Crustyfour

----- Original Message -----
From: IronHorse
snip
> I am referring to the entity NASG inc. Should do something.
> I don't expect the President of NASG Inc. to say "I'm Sorry"
> A letter should say "NASG Inc. is sorry, and adjustments will
> be made."
Group: S-Trains Message: 20305 From: David Dewey Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Please help one of the ignorant.--and the rest of us!
Gary,
Hmm, while it is in very nice condition, I don't see the late production
body, this looks like the typical four rivet floor, not the single screw
one.
So, I dunno, maybe good marketing?? I didn't check his auctions to see
if a bridge was there. . . . ;-)
S'
David D.
PS although the page shows 5 bids, they are only from two different people!
Hmm.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20306 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: AMERICAN MODELS TRAIN FOR SALE "CORP"
Hi Guys,
I just listed an American Models GP9/19 & caboose in the
CORP colors. This is brand new. I also have 3 bulkhead flats with loads to go
with the engine & caboose. anyone from the list that buys it now can get free
shipping & I'll throw in the 3 flats for $100 more. They were custom painted
for me. Mike S.
CORP Central Oregon & Pacific
Item # 1749276963



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20307 From: royhoffman Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Re: NASG
Wow! I go on my retirement trip and pause to catch up on my emails
and see all this! I suppose there are people who still don't vote
because they didn't like something the Hoover administration did to
them. That can't be helped. I'm sure that the current 1800 or so
members are judging the NASG by what they get for their dues today.
I agree with all those who have wisely said to think of the present
and future. OK, back to sightseeing till next time.

Roy
Group: S-Trains Message: 20308 From: Roger Petrella Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Culverts
I saw earlier where someone was looking for a way to model corrugated
steel culverts under roads. You can buy real looking culvert material
for next to nothing at your local Home Depot (or similar). Go to the
electrical section and you can find BX cable (galvanized steel sheath)
that you can pull the wires from inside a short piece. Comes in 1/2"
and 3/4" as fairly standard stock. Also, and may be better yet, is
empty sheathing (aluminum usually) that comes in various diameters from
1/2" to 1 1/2" usually. You can get several feet for just a few bucks.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO
Group: S-Trains Message: 20309 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Culverts
Hi Rodger,
The type with the wire in it is BX at 3/8" The 1/2 & 3/4
Are Alum Flex. The 3/8th might be the best size for a averg. size
culvert. Not to step on your toes Rodger, Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20310 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Re: Culverts
Roger, Sorry I spelled your name wrong too. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20311 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Re: Culverts
One more thing on the BX culvert material, if you can get it from an old
house or an old electrician, it will already be weathered. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20312 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, July 14, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20313 From: David Dewey Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Re: Culverts
Mike wrote:" One more thing on the BX culvert material, if you can get it
from an old
house or an old electrician, it will already be weathered. "

AND it'll be FREE!!!!
OH I LOVE THAT WORD!!

Seriously, though, I think this is a great "thinking outside the box
(culvert) idea." Gads, I couldn't even resist putting a pun in my "serious"
sentence!
S'
David D, Charter member of the CHEAP! club.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20314 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Re: Culverts
Hey David I heard you can't prove membership. They are so cheap they have no
membership cards let alone a charter, Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20315 From: Bill Lane Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: The NASG - Love it or leave it!
Hi All,

Apparently the NASG officers have voted to end the long ago life memberships
for the whopping sum of $3.00. I know of a few people who have pre-1970
memberships. I felt it was a badge of honor to hold a membership for so long
in the pre SHS days when you had to make everything. I am equally proud that
I am member # 88R105F. It is the only train related membership number that I
have memorized.

I can liken the NASG's decision to discontinue those old memberships to the
federal government's law banning no renewal fee lifetime memberships it
health clubs and spas. They all sold lifetime memberships for a while until
they could not meet operating costs. Then they went out of business leaving
the members with nothing.

The read between the lines IS you can't expect $3.00 to carry you for a
lifetime of anything. I complained for at least 3 years that the dues were
too low, and they should be raised to the current $20.00 basic fee. It is a
BARGAIN! The friends I have met and places I have been as a result of being
a NASG member are priceless to me. Whether those same friends think I am
priceless is another story....... There will be no less then 5 NASG members
at and in my wedding in 1-1/2 months with the attendance being 65 people
total. What is the percentage of that? There are great people in the NASG.
Except in certain parts of Los Altos CA. (:>)

Pay the $20.00 and move forth! Geez!

Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 20316 From: bassflyer Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: NASG Members--S-Train members?
It was brought up earliar,..and I am still curious,...out of the
686 members on this list,...how many belong to NASG, or other groups?
And if we did a poll,..how many out of the 686 would actually
participate?

Rick (Just curious in Calif.) Evans.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20317 From: Don Thompson Date: 7/12/2002
Subject: Re: F-7 blatant promotion
I am happy to report that Jon Marinello has uploaded the F-7 web
pages to our site. Please take a look as Bob's really nice photo's of
these beauties. I have photos of the chrome AT&SF, but they are not on
the site yet. I do have one jpeg and if anyone would like to see,
please e-mail me and I can forward.
Robin and I will be leaving for the NMRA convention in Ft.
Lauderdale on Sunday morning. Roger will be in the office all week to
answer questions. If anyone is in the area, please stop at our booth
and say hello. I think Robin has pens, pins and badge neckwear to give
away. We also will have painted samples of the F-7s (yes the AT&SF in
chrome), composite hoppers and new track sections (bumper, uncoupler, AF
accessory activator and the enhanced #3 switch).
Don

http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf7s/emdf7s.html

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20318 From: Eugene Steffan Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: [Fwd: Your subscription to S-Trains has been changed]
Although I never reguested anything of Yahoo, I received this
acknowledgement. I Think Big Brother is changing the rules again.
Gene


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20319 From: Lawrence Jackman Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: Re: Homemade S gauge Mallet picture
Your friend is right. You can not have a hinged boiler. The boiler only
goes up to the hinge. The flues go all the way forward. The front
section of the "Boiler" is a steam reheater and a early style super
heater. The part at the hinge was a second combustion chamber. The
section in front of that chamber was the super heater and then there was
a reheater.
Also the 4-4-6-2 locomotives did not have "hinged boilers". Only the
1157 and 3320 through the 3323 of the 2-6-6-2 have a "hinged boiler". So
the Santa Fe only had six engines with a "hinged boiler". All were
2-6-6-2. Nos 1157 & 1158 (renumbered to 1170 & 1171) and 3320, 3321,
3322 and 3323.
I must say your model looks great.
Thank you
Larry Jackman

>
> Since I promised a picture of our homemade Mallet,
> a scan of the picture of it can be found here:
>
> http://amflyer.home.radiks.net/~amflyer/htdocs/af4662.jpg
>
> It's made from two AF CNW type Pacifics, with a hinge in
> the middle (actually a nut and bolt). It doesn't look
> bad going around curves. Only the rear set of drivers is
> powered, and "one of these days" I'll pipe the smoke
> from the smoke unit out to the stack. Right now I think
> that it needs to be refilled with smoke fluid anyway.
>
> It is freelanced, but the Santa Fe had similar 4-4-6-2
> and 2-6-6-2 prototypes. This is a combination - a 4-6-6-2.
> The only prototype 4-6-6-2's that I know of were a class
> of SP cab forwards. A friend who works with boilers
> claims you can't have a hinged boiler, so I showed him the
> article Trains magazine did many years ago on the Santa Fe
> engines. I can't find the article now, or remember how
> they worked.
>
> Hopefully the S Helper Service 2-8-0 will be out soon,
> but if anybody else makes a new steam engine, I would
> like to see another one with a two wheel lead truck,
> like a 2-6-2, 2-8-2, 2-8-4 or something like that.
>
> I have often wondered why AF never made an S gauge steamer
> with a two wheel lead truck, especially after seeing all
> the O gauge ones they made. I got lucky once at a swap meet,
> and found apparently scratchbuilt steamers - a CB&Q 2-6-0
> and CGW 2-8-0. I could only afford one and bought the
> 2-6-0, as it was in better shape. Unfortunately, it doesn't
> run well on AF track. It tolerates the Gargraves, though.
>
> While S gaugers are clamoring for big steam, the O scale
> (two-rail) guys want smaller ones, and a diecast 2-8-0 is
> due out soon. Having O scale too (and H-O) I'm looking
> forward to that.
>
> Hope you enjoy the picture.
>
> Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20320 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: Re: Culverts
Another source for culvert material is the metal casings found with some
cigars. Just think, have a nice cigar and tall cool adult beverage. Then
further the value of your estate by using the metal sheath on your layout. A
double win, win situation.

John Griffin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20321 From: thecrpntr2002 Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: old train acc.
I have an "Audio-Engineer" mfgd. by Electro-Nuclear Devices, Inc. Is
there anyone out there that has had one of these in the past? I need
help wiring it to My A/F layout as there were no instructions with
it. Thank you in advance
Group: S-Trains Message: 20322 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: New F-7's
Hi all:
Saw two pictures of the ATSF F-7's from SHS. They look great and will
make a fantastic addition to any high-rail to scale layouts and all the
inbetween ones! Thanks SHS for a job well done.
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)
Group: S-Trains Message: 20323 From: iradiate1967 Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: New to S, need some scale models..
Greetings. My name is Vince, and I am new to S. I model the Bangor &
Aroostook RR in Scale. I am looking for specific models of diesel
locomotives, and any help locating them would be appreciated. I need
F3 undecs from SHS and also looking for an Oriental Brass NW-2. Will
also be willing to buy BTS BL-2 models and/or AM FP-7 or drive
chassis, must be scale wheels.

Freight cars seem quite plentiful for the year I model, but I also
need one passenger car that looks to only come in a set? It is an AM
observation car. I don't care what roadname, and if it only has Hi
rail whels that's ok too.

Thank you!

Vince
Group: S-Trains Message: 20324 From: David Dewey Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: Re: old train acc.
I have one too, still in the box. HSS used to have a bunch of new ones too.
Mine is buied, probably somewhere under the model T chassis (I have to store
my stuff where ever I can find space!). but I believe it is just wired
between the transformer and the track, one wire from base post to audio
engineer, one from it to the track, no other wires from the base post to the
track.
It is just a pressure activated normally on switch. If your train is
running, you say "stoPH" with a forceful "PH" Then you say "back uPH" and it
goes backwards---it's a MIRACLE!
S'
David
PS don't you just love the advertising on the box, "Electro-Nuclear Devices
Co." Everything had to be "Atomic" back then!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20325 From: Robert E. Yablonski Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: Track Insulators
Hi,

I am using AM track and need insulators to separate blocks. Does anyone
know where I can get some?

Robert E. Yablonski
Group: S-Trains Message: 20326 From: louis glumac Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: help
hi, i need some help,,,,found some old toys that look like they may be train
related,dark green base, looks like they hook up to a transformer,one is a
merry go round, around 7 inches tall and the bases are around 6 inch
square,they were found with a lionel transformer,does anyone know what they
might be? thanks
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert E. Yablonski" <yabo@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 2:14 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Track Insulators



>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20327 From: Chuck Smith Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: Re: Track Insulators
Yes. Go to your kitchen and find the toothpicks. Shave them down a
little so they slip into the rails and replace the metal pins.
Seriously, this is a good method on a permanent layout with track
fastened down and works well when you have no insulated pins handy. If
you have insulated pins be aware they are quite brittle and break
easily, so you want to fasten your track down anyway. In fact, if your
track mounting is really secure you can get along with no pin at all-
just make sure there's about a 1/32" to 1/16" gap where the pin was
removed.

"Robert E. Yablonski" wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I am using AM track and need insulators to separate blocks. Does anyone
> know where I can get some?
>
> Robert E. Yablonski
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 20328 From: af21115 Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: Re: Please help one of the ignorant.
Its not. Its a simple $40 car no more. A prime example of "A fool and
their money...."


--- In S-Trains@y..., Gary Chidester <GChidester@m...> wrote:
> Can anyone tell me why this 913 is so much more valuable than the
ones that
> are listed in any of the guides? It looks just like mine and I
know I
> wouldn't get this much if it were on e-Bay.
>
> gary
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1747539439
Group: S-Trains Message: 20329 From: notcoldenough Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: Re: crossing signal flasher circuit.
Tom wrote => what is REALLY needed is a circuit that will cut off
power to ANY Flyer solenoid if it persists for too long

I was reading some old messages when I found this question. I have
part of an answer. I wired the new Lionel 153IR infrared controller
to operate both my crossing gate and danger bell with out any chance
of solenoid burn out. Just hooked both accessories to the 153IR unit
to get 16 volts when it detects a train. The danger bell track trips
are wired as normal. If the train is stopped on a track trip there
is no chance of burning up the danger bell since the controller will
time out and disconnect power. Also, the 153IR controller will time
out, even if the train is parked directly in front of the infrared
light beam.


John Gasal




--- In S-Trains@y..., jarcho@r... wrote:
> John: a crossing flasher circuit would be a welcome addition, but
please
> make it able to handle up to 24 volts AC just to be safe. Some of
us use
> mysterious sources of power.
>
> However , what is REALLY needed is a circuit that will cut off
power to ANY
> Flyer solenoid if it persists for too long. This would include
switch
> motors, bell danger signals, crossing gates, semaphores, etc. I
don't know
> if a timer device or a thermal sensor taped to each solenoid would
work
> best, but it should be inexpenmsive enough that it can be purchased
and
> applied in large quantities.
>
> Also, is there any chance of getting your train detector with DPDT
contacts?
>
> Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20330 From: bassflyer Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: Re: the "Hard to find 913"....
<Dave0616@A...> wrote:
**((Its not. Its a simple $40 car no more. A prime example of "A
fool and their money...."))**
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1747539439

The seller says,.."The hard to find....",...hmmmm...my TM
price guide and Greenberg, top the 913 out at 40 bucks!! Maybe it
suddenly became highly collectable, or are we missing something??
Like to find a crate of 913's to sell!! :-)

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20331 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: Re: the "Hard to find 913"....
Could they have mistaken it for the 613? Still high as the 613 is valued
at $100. Mike S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20332 From: Don Abrams Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: NASG Members--S-Train members?
TCA

TTOS

Not NASG

Don
Group: S-Trains Message: 20333 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: Re: NASG Members--S-Train members?
Is someone counting? If so

NASG
TTOS Nat.
TTOS So Div


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20334 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: New poll for S-Trains
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
S-Trains group:

What organizations do you belong too?

o TCA, TTOS & NASG
o TCA & TTOS (not NASG)
o TCA & NASG (not TTOS)
o TTOS & NASG (not TCA)
o NASG (only)
o TTOS (only)
o TCA (only)
o Not currently a member of any of these.


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/surveys?id=943263

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20335 From: robert allen conner Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
TCA.....Not a member when I log in....Bob Conner
----- Original Message -----
From: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 7:42 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] New poll for S-Trains


>
> Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> S-Trains group:
>
> What organizations do you belong too?
>
> o TCA, TTOS & NASG
> o TCA & TTOS (not NASG)
> o TCA & NASG (not TTOS)
> o TTOS & NASG (not TCA)
> o NASG (only)
> o TTOS (only)
> o TCA (only)
> o Not currently a member of any of these.
>
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/surveys?id=943263
>
> Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
> web site listed above.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20336 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
I had the same happen to me. My ID is different from when I signed up my
password is a screwed up to. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20337 From: Alex Sibbald Date: 7/13/2002
Subject: new poll for s-trains
Same problem with getting access to group polls. I get email just fine
but yahoo doesn't recognize me at the group sign in. Anyhow it is NASG,
INC only for me. And I am glad that someone way back when finally saw
that a one-time lifetime fee was a real anchor for any organization to
support. Anyhow the original S GAUGERS who hold those original NASG
membership cards should be thrilled to see where S GAUGE is today with
all the new manufacturers, real standards, the beginnings of a real
library, several publications dedicated to S GAUGE, newly manufactured
parts for the great flyers, etc. Much of this is thanks to the original
founders and all the hard working, unpaid, unsung, active supporters of
our gauge who have dedicated their time and efforts for the benefit of
all S GAUGERS. I look at the NASG, INC. membership fee as a donation to
support the group that supports my hobby. And we get a magazine to boot!
Anyhow as far as I can tell, the original members of the original NASG
are still members of that organization, it never died. It just faded
away as an active organization when the portion of the membership with
vision started a new corporation with the financial mechanics to enable
the new organization to continue to lead and guide my hobby in ways not
possible with a support group whose total financial commitment for life
was $3.00. Although the founding fathers of the new corporation had the
foresight to predict the future in ways most meaningful to me, perhaps
they could have chosen a completely new name for the new corporation
to better differentiate the goals and the financial mechanics of the new
corporation from the lack of revenue and accordingly the limited goals
of the previous association.
Alex(innotron)
Group: S-Trains Message: 20338 From: thortrains Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: More Track Plans Posted
Just posted some new track plans. These are in the S Gauge section
at http://www.thortrains.net The link in that section is marked New
and Updated. There is a nice variety of unusual plans for both loop
and point-to-point operations.

Enjoy!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20339 From: trainnut2us Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: On30 conversion
Has any one converted bachman coach trucks to S? If so how did you
manage bolster? i believe that SHS wheelsets will work if side frames
are drilled deeper, but bolster is directional and narrow!
Jim
Group: S-Trains Message: 20340 From: Paul Yorke Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: Logging into Yahoo
If your Yahoo account is goofed, one option is to
create a new account. Click on register, answer the
questions (you can lie).
Instead of giving them your email address, just have
them create a new Yahoo email address for you. You
don't need to use it. But this will allow you to
access the Group pages.

If you get your account fixed maybe you can drop in on
our Chat some Sunday night, not to mention joining
the poll.

If you have questions please contact me off list.

=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20341 From: Steve Blancard Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: Re: On30 conversion
Funny you should ask, I have a passenger car torn down for conversion right now. I
have ordered American Models lightweight passenger trucks. They are the same style
used on the AF Frontiersman coaches, but of course much better. I was hoping they
would arrive yesterday but the big brown truck never showed up. Until I get the
trucks in hand and see what there bolster requirements are, I won't know how to
proceed. The ON30 open sided passenger car bolster is a female style. I expect I
will need to cut these off flush with the car floor and make new bolsters from
scratch.

The freight cars are much easier to convert. But the passenger cars I'm doing a
P.R.R livery and will go with my custom Franklin project.

I'll post more details as I proceed.

Steve Blancard
crustyfour

trainnut2us wrote:

> Has any one converted bachman coach trucks to S? If so how did you
> manage bolster? i believe that SHS wheelsets will work if side frames
> are drilled deeper, but bolster is directional and narrow!
> Jim
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 20342 From: srgriggs Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: Re: Track Insulators
--- In S-Trains@y..., "Robert E. Yablonski" <yabo@l...> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am using AM track and need insulators to separate blocks. Does
anyone
> know where I can get some?
>
> Robert E. Yablonski

Insulated track joiners aren't available from AM because they say they
aren't needed to do what you're trying to do. AM recommends just
cutting the rail at the desired joint location with a razor saw to
electrically isolate two sections. I am building a layout with AM
track right now and I will probably take this approach.

However, if you really want insulated joiners, this might work:

Atlas O recently announced a line of O-scale 2 rail track products
that will use code 148 rail (same as AM). According to their website
(http://www.atlaso.com/02railtrack.htm), they offer insulated rail
joiners for $2.35 per package (item number 7093).

Scott Griggs
Group: S-Trains Message: 20343 From: Steve Blancard Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: Rebuilding a SIT unit
Hi Guys,

I need some advice here. I have a SIT unit from an early 322 Hudson
that needs a rebuild. It puts out a little smoke but not much. The
wick is petrified and the bellows has the usual holes around the
creases. I've looked through the archives and read a good bit about
bellows repair, so I think I'm ok in that area. I need some advice
about replacing the wick assembly. I bought a couple wick kits from
Portlines a while back.

Are the same kits used for SIT or SIB units? The instructions only
seem to indicate SIB use.

On the old SIT wick, the nichrome wire looks to be wound on the end of
the wick, while the new wick has it would around the middle. Should I
unwind the wire from the center of the new wick and rewind it on the
end? Or just cut off the wick at one side of the wire winding?

What about the cardboard pieces in the wick chamber? I have some thin,
hard electrical insulating cardboard stock. Can this be used to replace
the ancient original pieces?

Does anyone have photos of a SIT rebuild ? It would be nice to see how
others have done this.

I welcome any advice!

One last question. Comparing a freshly rebuilt SIB and SIT unit, which
is a better smoker???

Thanks,
Steve Blancard
crustyfour
Group: S-Trains Message: 20344 From: Robert Wight Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: Re: More Track Plans Posted
These new layouts are great. thank you for taking the time to do these. It
is greatly appreciated.


>From: "thortrains" <>
>To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [S-Trains] More Track Plans Posted
>Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 07:06:02 -0000
>
>Just posted some new track plans. These are in the S Gauge section
>at http://www.thortrains.net The link in that section is marked New
>and Updated. There is a nice variety of unusual plans for both loop
>and point-to-point operations.
>
>Enjoy!
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
>s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20345 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, July 14, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20346 From: bassflyer Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: Re: On30 conversion
"trainnut2us" wrote:
> Has any one converted bachman coach trucks to S? If so how did you
> manage bolster? i believe that SHS wheelsets will work if side
frames
> are drilled deeper, but bolster is directional and narrow!

I too, have a couple to convert over,...been dragging my heels
though,...hopefully Steve will figure out a good/easy way!!

Rick (throw on the S trucks and run 'em!) Evans.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20347 From: aglorince Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: Re: Track Insulators
the HO Model rr museam i belong to in pittsburgh uses the same
technique with one modification. we place strips of styrene in the
cut gap and super glue in placeb then trim to rail shape. this
prevents rail from making contact when things warm up. a 500 to 1000
foot loop can develop some suprising expansion kinks.
andy lorince


--- In S-Trains@y..., "srgriggs" <sgriggs@u...> wrote:
> --- In S-Trains@y..., "Robert E. Yablonski" <yabo@l...> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am using AM track and need insulators to separate blocks. Does
> anyone
> > know where I can get some?
> >
> > Robert E. Yablonski
>
> Insulated track joiners aren't available from AM because they say
they
> aren't needed to do what you're trying to do. AM recommends just
> cutting the rail at the desired joint location with a razor saw to
> electrically isolate two sections. I am building a layout with AM
> track right now and I will probably take this approach.
>
> However, if you really want insulated joiners, this might work:
>
> Atlas O recently announced a line of O-scale 2 rail track products
> that will use code 148 rail (same as AM). According to their
website
> (http://www.atlaso.com/02railtrack.htm), they offer insulated rail
> joiners for $2.35 per package (item number 7093).
>
> Scott Griggs
Group: S-Trains Message: 20348 From: Paul Yorke Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: reading notes on the web
If you are one of the people that prefers to read the notes on a
webpage, rather than having it delivered to your mailbox try
http://www.mail-archive.com/s-trains%40yahoogroups.com/
and let me know if it works out.
No ads , no passwords.

Paul
yorke at gate dot net
Group: S-Trains Message: 20349 From: Vince Brunette Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: Trade wanted SHS SW9 shell EL for undec
Have a new S Helper SW9 I just bought in the Erie Lackawanna scheme, #452. I want to horse trade, not sell. ( I can always strip it )

All I want is an undec. shell and the scale pilots for it. I will give in return my new decorated shell, the scale and hi-rail pilots, and the hi-rail wheelsets in the original EL box. You can keep the hi-rail pilots from your undec, as I won't use them. This way, you end up with a decorated unit with both sets of hi-rail and scale add ons in the proper box, plus a spare set of hi-rail undec pilots for kitbashing/spares. I get my undec parts for painting.

Please contact me off list if you want to swap with me, iradiate@...



Vince :)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20350 From: Dayna Warner Date: 7/14/2002
Subject: PACKAGING ERROR
I am putting this out on the list because I can reach most of the people who
have recently purchased an S scale Tippee's Canoe Shack. As tight as we try
to keep our quality control it has come to my attention that a batch of
Tippee's went out with the wrong roof. You can tell because there would be
no overhang and the notch for the chimney would leave a large hole in the
roof. If you have received one of these kits (and I have no idea who may
have gotten one from this batch) please contact me with your name and
address and I will ship out the correct roof immediately. We are red faced
at this error and assure you that we have checked all the rest that are in
stock.
Sorry for any inconvenience.
Dayna Warner CEO
Trainstuff LLC
www.trainstuffllc.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20351 From: IronHorse Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Flying Yankee
Has anyone heard anything about the status of the Flying Yankee in NH?
Is it near completion of restoration?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20352 From: Doug Peck Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Re: Rebuilding SIT units
<<<<Are the same kits used for SIT or SIB units? The instructions only
seem to indicate SIB use.---YES. NO DIFFERENCE.

On the old SIT wick, the nichrome wire looks to be wound on the end of
the wick, while the new wick has it would around the middle. Should I
unwind the wire from the center of the new wick and rewind it on the
end? Or just cut off the wick at one side of the wire winding?----THERE'S
NO REASON FOR IT TO BE AT THE END. SOUNDS LIKE SOMEONE CUT THE ORIGINAL WICK
SHORTER. IF YOU CUT IT AT ALL, JUST CUT A SHORT SSECTION OFF both ENDS,
EQUALLY.

What about the cardboard pieces in the wick chamber? I have some thin,
hard electrical insulating cardboard stock. Can this be used to replace
the ancient original pieces?----MAYBE....BUT WE ALSO HAVE PRE-CUT
REPLACEMENT INSULATORS FOR THE CHAMBER AS WELL, PLUS GASKETS, IF NEEDED.

>>>

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours - Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays: 2-5 PM (EST), and 7-9 PM.
Saturdays: 2-5 PM.
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please.)
Website: www.portlines.com
E-mail: doug@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20353 From: crustyfour Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Re: reading notes on the web
Will the new archive contain all the old messages or only those after
July 14th? It sure would be nice if all could be included.

Thanks,
Steve Blancard

--- In S-Trains@y..., Paul Yorke <yorke@g...> wrote:
> If you are one of the people that prefers to read the notes on a
> webpage, rather than having it delivered to your mailbox try
> http://www.mail-archive.com/s-trains%40yahoogroups.com/
> and let me know if it works out.
> No ads , no passwords.
>
> Paul
> yorke at gate dot net
Group: S-Trains Message: 20354 From: David Dewey Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Re: Rebuilding a SIT unit
Steve,
I think someone has already been inside your unit, or maybe the other
end burnt off, I've not seen a "one-sided" wick myself.
The insulating cardboard would work fine, but there are direct
replacements available. Depends on how creative you like to be, or if you
too, are a member of the CHEAP! club.
S'
David D.
PS One of my Dispatch columns covered some of the care and feeding of these
puppies--yes Commercial Message here!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20355 From: David Dewey Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Big L AF 2002, vol 2 cat out.
Well everyone, Big L has released 2002 Vol2 catalog. pages 62 & 63 are AF,
and what can I say but ZZZZZZzzzzzzzz. The only unusual thing is the
three-dome tank car base/frame are molded in yellow plastic, that is a
first, I believe (is it prototypical--it sure looks toy-like).
Here's the URL for those who want to look:
Page 62:
http://www.train-station.com/cgi-local/shop.pl/page=6-20022-0062.html/SID=35
43677855
Page 63:
http://www.train-station.com/cgi-local/shop.pl/page=6-20022-0063.html/SID=35
43677855

S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20356 From: Clifford Manning Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: diagram and parts list
Does anyone have a diagram and parts list for the America Flyer O gauge
494 Baggage Car?

Clifford Manning
Topeka, Ks
Group: S-Trains Message: 20357 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Re: Big L AF 2002, vol 2 cat out.
GEE WILLIKERS,
The kindly folks at Big "L" once again come thru with nothing of interest
or not rehashed. Imagine that!! Helps explain that eroding market share I
would guess.
Jim Lyle






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20358 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: NASG Dispatch
Dear Dick:
Much as enjoyed seeing my steeple cabs in the Dispatch who to I send
this 'nasty gram' to about my first and last names being reversed?

Thorin (first name)
Marty (last name)


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wisconsin Electric - Wisconsin Gas is now We Energies.
Please use our new email extension "we-energies.com"
when addressing email to this sender,
e.g., john.doe@....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20359 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Steeplecabs in the Dispatch
Dear Ed:
A BIG "Thank you" for submitting the photos of my steeple cabs to
the Dispatch. My photos are still awaiting processing.

Thanks again!
Thorin


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wisconsin Electric - Wisconsin Gas is now We Energies.
Please use our new email extension "we-energies.com"
when addressing email to this sender,
e.g., john.doe@....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20360 From: frilen2 Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Big L AF 2002, vol 2 cat out.
Wouldn't it be nice if the 0-8-0 Steamers on page 64 were produced
in "S"?
I guess we can only dream...again..
Someday ..Big L may wake up from their dreamland...
Karl
Group: S-Trains Message: 20361 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1518
In a message dated 07/14/2002 6:43:30 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> One last question. Comparing a freshly rebuilt SIB and SIT unit, which
> is a better smoker???
>
>

IMHO the SIT are better because they smoke while setting still.

Steve Blackburn


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20362 From: tigge55@bellsouth.net Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: TheMilwaukeeChannel.com - Freight Train Derails In Fiery Crash
Group: S-Trains Message: 20363 From: John Harvey Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: cleaning plastic whells
I am gradually restoring my collection of AF trains to running condition. Most items date from the late 1940's. Does anyone have a safe, easy method of cleaning cacked on dirt, grease,etc. from plastic wheels? I have tried some solvents, the blade of a screwdriver and even very fine sandpaper. However I am afraid of damaging the old plastic wheels. If I can clean off the "gunk" is there any thing I can treat them with to presevre the plastic?

Regards,

John Harvey
brigadie@...


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20364 From: Ted Walton Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: HO Model rr museum
>the HO Model rr museum i belong to in pittsburgh ....<

Andy, where exactly is this museum in Pittsburgh.

Ted Walton
Annandale, Va
Group: S-Trains Message: 20365 From: afstrains@aol.com Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1519
Hello All: This is another blatant advertisement. Our website has been
updated with new AF items for sale, but better than that is information about
the train show and AC Gilbert factory tour in New Haven on August 17 - 18.
Would love to see you all there. The AC Gilbert Heritage Society will be
holding their national convention with us this year so it should be a
spectacular show. You can make reservations for the factory tour from our
site or give us a call. Robin Vanacore


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20366 From: dwightlehnhoff Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Cleaning Plastic Wheels
I use a dremel at slow speed with a nylon brush wheel

Dwight
Group: S-Trains Message: 20367 From: bassflyer Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning Plastic Wheels
I have used track cleaner, TV tuner cleaner, & WD40 (well, not at
the same time!)....with Q-Tips...and CAREFULLY used a small flat-
bladed screwdriver if needed.

Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20368 From: Roger Delthony Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Cleaning Plastic Wheels
I have found mineral spirits and a Q-tip to work well in removing the
gunk that builds up on wheels. Doesn't scrape the plastic. For the gunk
that may look like mildew on the back of the wheels, either rubbing
alcohol or possibly the mineral spirits again, probably with a
toothbrush this time to get in the crevices found on some wheels. I
follow any of these solvents with a scrubbing in detergent and water,
water rinse, and then dry them - especially the steel axles. This will
bring wheels that have not been physically damaged back to looking
pretty good.

Roger Delthony
Group: S-Trains Message: 20369 From: thortrains Date: 7/15/2002
Subject: Shelf Layouts
I've been at it again: after a request, I designed several shelf
layouts for narrow spaces. Also, some layouts using mixed switches.
They are in the S Gauge section at http://www.thortrains.net Look
for "New and Updated" and click the link. They will be the last two
heading on the page.

I probably won't be making more layouts until the end of Summer or
the Fall.

Enjoy!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20370 From: William Porter Date: 7/16/2002
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
There are not enough choices in the poll to cover all of the combinations -
at least it does not cover mine which is NMRA and TTOS.

Good Luck,
Bill Porter

----- Original Message -----
From: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 7:42 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] New poll for S-Trains


>
> Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> S-Trains group:
>
> What organizations do you belong too?
>
> o TCA, TTOS & NASG
> o TCA & TTOS (not NASG)
> o TCA & NASG (not TTOS)
> o TTOS & NASG (not TCA)
> o NASG (only)
> o TTOS (only)
> o TCA (only)
> o Not currently a member of any of these.
>
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/surveys?id=943263
>
> Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
> web site listed above.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20371 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 7/16/2002
Subject: Re: NASG Dispatch
Dear Dick:
Therein lies the tale:

I had to address it to SOMEONE. I knew if I address it to you (an NASG
officer) and the S-Trains and S-Scale lists IT WOULD GET TO JEFF MADDEN. I
went to the BSG site (to get his e-mail address) and they are in the process
of moving to a new host. I couldn't get to the old web site. The new site
doesn't yet list the members nor have their e-mail addresses.
Finally, I knew you wouldn't misinterpret the note get mad at me.

Thorin

Dear Glenn:
Thanks for forwarding. I got a nice note from Jeff claiming a
momentary brain lapse. How I wish all of my goofs were as minor as a first
name / last name swap.

Thorin

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Karnes [mailto:karnesrn@...]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 5:50 PM
To: Glenn Ritter
Cc: Marty.Thorin; NASGC/Jeff Madden
Subject: Re: NASG Dispatch


Why am I getting this note???

Dick Karnes
======
Glenn Ritter wrote:

> "Marty.Thorin" wrote:
> Dear Dick:
> Much as enjoyed seeing my steeple cabs in the Dispatch who to I
send
> this 'nasty gram' to about my first and last names being reversed?
>
> Thorin (first name)
> Marty (last name)


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wisconsin Electric - Wisconsin Gas is now We Energies.
Please use our new email extension "we-energies.com"
when addressing email to this sender,
e.g., john.doe@....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20372 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 7/16/2002
Subject: Re: NASG Dispatch
Dear Conner:
(The first name is Thorin.)

Dear Bob:
This sounds great. Only how do you plan to get from the top level
to the lower? I use my lower level for additional running and storage
tracks so the lower level is only 12 inches below the upper level. If I
were to do this over, I would do 15 inches so my older body can fit in
better as I also use 30 inches deep (2 feet, 8 inches). If I wanted
industries and scenery on the lower level, then I would want about 18
inches. (In my case, the layout sections themselves are 3 1/2 inches
thick.)
Now that I am older I find I am not using the back 8 inches on the
lower level. I just can't reach that far in 12 inches. Some upper sections
can be raised 8 inches for maintenance. (Not an easy task.)

I have a 35 * 24 foot room which is shared with utilities, laundry, and
storage. The western end has tables 16 feet long and 30 inches wide. They
are level and flat. The rest of the layout is 'around the room' on 8 inch
boards so I get a double loop. The two loops meet in the middle of the
eastern wall at a location with the amazingly creative name of 'crossover'.
I have a 1.75% grade and it takes about 60 feet to drop (or rise) the 12
inches. The upper level is at 46 inches and the lower is at 34.

I am lucky that the stairs go OVER the tracks so I don't have any opening
bridges. In your case, I would have two bridges at the door way. (No duck
unders.) My bridges are 8 inches wide with a piano hinge at one end. The
other end also has a hinge. I use a normal door hinge with the pin pulled.
When the bridge is down, the pin is pushed in. This locks the bridge in
place, up, down, left, right, forward, back. Perfect alignment summer and
winter. My father goes one step further and drills a hole into the hinge
pin and adds a nail to provide a handle. Such bridges have been in use for
more than 25 years on my father's layout.

I love to just see trains go so I need ramps both up and down. If you are
planning a point-to-point, you might want to build two flat levels. Then
put the ramp in the rear of the lower level so the front is available. The
ramp is in the back, out of the way, and is 'get from here to there'
section. Just don't have the ramp span the doorway if you plan bridges.
(As soon as the tracks climb 5 inches you can reclaim the space beneath.)

Illumination of the lower level is easier than you might think. Use strings
of clear Christmas Tree bulbs hung from the underside of the upper level!
They are cheep. I staple-gun twisty-ties (from loaves of bread) on the
underside of the upper level and then hang the lights from there. Two
strings is plenty for each 8' by 30" section. You might want something
fancier for mood lighting but nothing beats these for working on the layout.

Did I answer your questions? Let me know what happens!
Thorin

-----Original Message-----
From: robert allen conner [mailto:rcon7@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 9:59 AM
To: Marty.Thorin
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] RE: NASG Dispatch


Marty...How about A round the room 13'-6" x 9'6" with a door in 1 corner -
9'-6" side and 1 window in the 13'-6" wall..Two levels....I am presently
going to start it this fall...would like to have the layout about 2'-8"
wide...Bob


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wisconsin Electric - Wisconsin Gas is now We Energies.
Please use our new email extension "we-energies.com"
when addressing email to this sender,
e.g., john.doe@....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20373 From: aglorince Date: 7/16/2002
Subject: Re: HO Model rr museum
--- In S-Trains@y..., Ted Walton <trwalton@e...> wrote:
> >the HO Model rr museum i belong to in pittsburgh ....<
>
> Andy, where exactly is this museum in Pittsburgh.
>
> Ted Walton
> Annandale, Va

the museam called Western Pennsylvannia Model railroad museam (WPMRM)
is located on pa route 910 west of pa route 8. the 8/910 intersection
is about two miles north of pa turnpike exit 4. this is 10 to 20
miles north of the city.

museam is open to public weekends from mid november to mid january.

additional information can be found at the web site www.wpmrm.org

andy lorince
Group: S-Trains Message: 20374 From: rodgers_carl Date: 7/16/2002
Subject: What happened to TRAINS?
If the topics and subject of the messages are any indication, "S IS
dead".
Group: S-Trains Message: 20375 From: af21115 Date: 7/16/2002
Subject: Another one for the watch list...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20376 From: The Reis's Date: 7/16/2002
Subject: FW: [showcaseline] Hello , new list member: Also want to find Undec
Speaking of F-3's I have an SHS Southern pacific A unit on ebay Single
unit DC-High rail from an SHS starter set.
Vince actually was the first bidder. For anyone on this list I will knock
off the first $5 of shipping if they identify themselves as such.


Check it out, its going cheap.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1749633046

I also have 4 other SHS items on ebay at this time so check out my other
auctions.

eric reis
kenmore, wa.


-----Original Message-----
From: iradiate1967 [mailto:iradiate@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 8:02 AM
To: showcaseline@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [showcaseline] Hello , new list member: Also want to find Undec. F3


Hello all............. I am hoping to find the now
elusive undecorated SHS F3,............ I will just be stripping the A for
painting
anyhow. Thanks!

Vince


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20377 From: iradiate1967 Date: 7/16/2002
Subject: Well, let's clarify that post regarding F3 diesels... :)
Might as well ask this list also. I have determined that undec. SHS
F3 diesels ae going to be tough to find. They are out at SHS, so
here goes plan B.....


If you want a B unit, and have a certain roadname in mind you want,
I will buy an AB set in your choice road and sell you the B. I can
find decorateds. I will just strip my A unit and then paint. Please
contact me off list. Thanks!

iradiate@... Vince
Group: S-Trains Message: 20378 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 7/16/2002
Subject: Piston rod/main rod from a 21168
Greetings,

Does anyone out there have any PA30A116. I had the urge to customize a few
CJ's by adding 21168 side gear (item 29 on the exploded view) and Hobby
surpus doesn't have this part.

There is a Burlington Switcher in Downtown Lincoln, that kinda looks like a
CJ... provided you forget your glasses, squint and have one or two of the
local microbrews

Jeff
Group: S-Trains Message: 20380 From: jahoozdumm Date: 7/16/2002
Subject: Re: Big L AF 2002, vol 2 cat out
"David Dewey" wrote:

>Big L has released 2002 Vol2 catalog. pages 62 & 63 are AF,
>and what can I say but ZZZZZZzzzzzzzz.

Well, David, you could also have said "Yawn..." which is , of course,
the prelude to "ZZZZZZzzzzzzzz." ;^)

Yes, the dullness of this year's line-up is exceeded only by the
predictability of it all. The only thing to watch for now is the
inevitable Lionel executive interview, wherein said exec will blame
the "limited" S line on "the soft S market."

"I have foreseen it." :The evil Emperor


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20381 From: af21115 Date: 7/17/2002
Subject: Re: Another one for the watch list...
Hey, he actually fixed it when I informed him of the mistake. Thats a
first, I usually get ignored or a nasty reply. There is hope... :O)


--- In S-Trains@y..., "af21115" <Dave0616@A...> wrote:
> Watch this seller... I smell fish....
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1750693824
Group: S-Trains Message: 20382 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 7/17/2002
Subject: Bathtub gon
Dear list:

Does anyone make a 50 foot bathtub gon in S Scale?

I work for Wisconsin Electric and was poking around in Oddballsdecals.com
and noticed decals for these cars.

If I order them is there anything to put them on?

Thorin


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wisconsin Electric - Wisconsin Gas is now We Energies.
Please use our new email extension "we-energies.com"
when addressing email to this sender,
e.g., john.doe@....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20383 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 7/17/2002
Subject: Re: Chicago
Hi:
I just got back from Chicago. I had a great time; danced with my wife, on
the Titanic, after disembarking from the Burlington Pioneer Zephyr. (That
would be IN the Museum of Science and Industry.)

I will post some pix for all to see. I didn't go photo crazy.

I made a personal appeal to Ron Sebastian in his Des Plaines Hobbies store
to get those well car sets back into production. He said that they would be
coming this winter. He has 2 other modern items coming out; a wide door,
50' box car and a Coal Porter (funny, considering the Cole Porter music
jokes of last week's list.) He said he has been reticent to make them up
'til now because there has been no modern motive power to complement them.
Enter the SD-60's. In UP livery, the coal porter is silver with one yellow
end and a UP shield. Very sexy. You'll need a dozen at least. It is used
in unit trains. The box car is a modern prototype (don't ask me tech
questions) with incredibly fine detailing, like a brass model. Ron is
selling kit versions of his famous hoppers for $18 apiece. While I was
there I picked up a couple of 53' containers in anticipation of the Thrall
to come.

Thanks to all who made suggestions.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20384 From: iradiate1967 Date: 7/17/2002
Subject: I found undec. SHS F3's, anyone want an undec B?
Dear List,

Just purchased 2 sets of undec. F3 diesels. Finally! One gentleman
on the list responded wanting the decorated B I planned on buying
but didn't. He gets first refusal on one of the Undec B units . The
second one is up for grabs. I decided to offer it to the lists
before ebay, since you all have been nice to me. If interested,
please email me at iradiate@....

Vince
Group: S-Trains Message: 20385 From: bassflyer Date: 7/17/2002
Subject: Re: Another one for the watch list...
--- In S-Trains@y..., "af21115" <Dave0616@A...> wrote:
> Watch this seller... I smell fish....
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1750693824

OK,...throw me a bone here! What's wrong with this 994?? Or is it
just the seller?

Curious Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20386 From: Gerry Evans Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Bathtub gon
THORIN:

As others have mentioned, Quality Craft made a "craftsman" basswood kit
for the 50-ft. bathtub gondola. I have built one and have two kits untouched
NIB. The "bathtub" itself is about 50-50.5 ft. long while the overall model
is about 54 ft. Someone also mentioned he thought you were actually after
the rotary gondolas without the rounded well on the underside. I also have
two of these kits NIB and have built one. Both of my built-up kits are
presently carrying around a load of gravel/rocks to give them some weight.

I would be willing to part with any or all of the four kits for $25/kit
plus $4 per request for shipping. These come without trucks or couplers. Or,
if you are going to NASG and would give me a commitment, I will bring any or
all of them along and hence avoid any shipping charges.

Gerry Evans
In Flagstaff
Group: S-Trains Message: 20387 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: NASG Modern Building Kit
Dear List:
I keep meaning to ask this.

A photo of the planned building is shown on the web site www.nasg.org. The
building has wonderful details such as air conditioners, lights, a trash
can, windows, doors, etc. What (if any) of these items will the NASG kit
have?
(Gosh I wish I could get away to this year's convention.)

Thorin


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Please use our new email extension "we-energies.com"
when addressing email to this sender,
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20388 From: Lee Johnson Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] NASG Modern Building Kit
on 7/18/02 8:29 AM, Marty.Thorin at thorin.marty@... wrote:

> A photo of the planned building is shown on the web site www.nasg.org. The
> building has wonderful details such as air conditioners, lights, a trash
> can, windows, doors, etc. What (if any) of these items will the NASG kit
> have?

Thorin,

The NASG Armco building is a reality, and has been available for about a
month. As indicated on the NASG Armco building web site, the details are
not included. However, most of these details are available from JAKS
Industries <http://www.jaksind.com/Pages/Finestkm.lasso>, BTS
<http://www.master-creations.com/btsdetal.htm>, and banta modelworks
<http://www.bantamodelworks.com/S_kits.html>.

Lee
Group: S-Trains Message: 20389 From: Raul Catta Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: Painting Celotex
Hi,
I have a 16' x 12' L shape layout with 4 loops and 2 switchyards.
Everything is constructed over a very strong benchwork and the table top is
a 1/2" plywood, even the tracks are on 726/727 rubber roadbeds, but when all
the trains are running there is a lot of noise. So I bought 2' x 4' panels
of celotex to put them over the plywood, (they are the kind used for ceiling
panels), from one side tainted white with small holes or perforations
distributed without any pattern and the other side is the gray color of the
raw material whith some inscriptions.
I want to put this side up, but I want to paint it. What kind of paint
should I use? It should be a paint that keep the celotex acoustic quality.
Should I use some substance against surface growth of mold and mildew?
Should I fixing the panel to the table top? What kind of glue must I use?
I know there are a lot of questions, thanks
Raul Catta
Florida 1065
(1005)Buenos Aires
Argentina
Group: S-Trains Message: 20390 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: Re: Painting Celotex
Raul,
You will almost certainly lose any acoustic quality by painting as the
paint will fill the pores or air holes that "absorb" the sound. To be
effective as a sound deadener, the pourous or finished side must me up.
Might be more effective on the room ceiling than under the tracks.
Most any paint should adhere to the underside, latex is easier to work
with, first coat may soak in. Roll it on, covers faster.
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20391 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: Re: Painting Celotex/SOUND DEADING
A very good method to achieve sound deading is achieved very nicely in
S'n'S's VOL # 4 & #5. I don't recall the name of the product but it is a thin
roll of a plastic insulating "Foam." When put between track & base it absorbs
sound quite well. Maybe Steve (Boss31@...) will respond to your question.
Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20392 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: Fwd: AMERICAM MODELS GP9
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20393 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: Fwd: SAWMILL FOR SALE
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20394 From: Paul Yorke Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: Todays NMRA Event Photos
The NMRA annual event is 2 hours south of me this year, so I buzzed down
there today. John Foley was nice enough to arrange for me to get in ,
assist some of the S-Gaugers , and shot some pictures.
The floor opens tomorrow and I hope to return and shot some video.
I posted some shots to http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/nmra/day1/
Group: S-Trains Message: 20395 From: John Harvey Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: Cleaning Plastic Wheels
Thanks for all the advice on cleaning plastic wheels, both on list and off.

I'll try them all!

Regards,

John Harvey
brigadie@...


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20396 From: pieter_roos Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: Re: NASG Modern Building Kit
There appears to a photo of the NASG model on Paul's page of NMRA
shots, slayout30.jpg. I'm not sure of the dating on of the prototype,
but metal prefab buildings of similar design became popular after
WWII. The Quonset hut is the more distinctive (and better known) type.

Nice pictures Paul, thanks for sharing!

Pieter


--- In S-Trains@y..., "Marty.Thorin" <thorin.marty@w...> wrote:
> Dear List:
> I keep meaning to ask this.
>
> A photo of the planned building is shown on the web site
www.nasg.org. The
> building has wonderful details such as air conditioners, lights, a
trash
> can, windows, doors, etc. What (if any) of these items will the
NASG kit
> have?
> (Gosh I wish I could get away to this year's convention.)
>
> Thorin
Group: S-Trains Message: 20397 From: iradiate1967 Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: Downs tank car models still being made???? ( MMT )
I saw pictures of a show in 2001 that had the new owner ( MMT ) of
Downs Model
RR Co. in it along with a new tank car. Did this go belly up? I
would like to
buy one like the one in the picture, I need a dome platform just
like it. After
looking across the web and using the email address listed on the
site, I was
unable to contact the MMT company. Anyone know what their staus is?

Vince
Group: S-Trains Message: 20398 From: jahoozdumm Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: Re: Todays NMRA Event Photos
Many thanx for the pix Paul, that must've taken some time. Who are
the owners of this layout? Are they the folks setting it up?


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20399 From: John Harvey Date: 7/18/2002
Subject: rail joiners for AF size rail
I have a very large quantity of AF size solid brass rail. What code is AF rail and are there rail joiners available to suit, insulated and non insulated?

Regards,

John Harvey
brigadie@...

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intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
addressed. If you are not the original recipient, any use, dissemination,
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20400 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 7/19/2002
Subject: Re: Todays NMRA Event Photos
Paul,
Great picture show !!! That "S" Gauge layout sure was full of beautiful
craftered model work, please give the owner a posted credit. I can't
believe how hard it must be to carry so many prescious building etc, to a
convention floor. A lot of work, for sure !!!! Thanks for the view, Paul
---- SteveJay -NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 20401 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 7/19/2002
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] Downs tank car models still being made???? ( MMT )
Contact MMTTRAINS@...

OR 717-627-3980

Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20402 From: Chuck Smith Date: 7/19/2002
Subject: Re: rail joiners for AF size rail
AF rail is humongous- about code 220 last I looked. Brass is usually
smaller. An old standard was code 172, which means 0.172" tall. You
have to know the code (height in thousandths of an inch) to know what
size rail joiners to order. there are no joiners I know of for full AF
size rail.

John Harvey wrote:
>
> I have a very large quantity of AF size solid brass rail. What code is AF rail and are there rail joiners available to suit, insulated and non insulated?
>
> Regards,
>
> John Harvey
> brigadie@...
>
> ***************************************************************************
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential, and are
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
> addressed. If you are not the original recipient, any use, dissemination,
> forwarding, printing, or copying of this email is strictly prohibited.
> If you received this email in error, please notify the sender.
>
> This message has been scanned for viruses by the Dragnet CleanMail Service.
> ***************************************************************************
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 20403 From: IronHorse Date: 7/19/2002
Subject: Train museum warning
I just want to let everyone know. At Crossroads of
America;
The Gilbert train display has been torn down. It is being
built up again in a completely different theme. It is
coming along good. It should be done for next year (summer).

Meanwhile our other room is open for viewing. It has many
train items. Models of cars, trucks, ships and many other
items are on display.
4 trains are running. Different scales. I dropped the
admission price
to offset the main display being shut down.
There is still quite a bit to see this year.

Roger Hinds
http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/gregory/1016/cofa/cofaxmypage.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20404 From: IronHorse Date: 7/19/2002
Subject: Cleaning Plastic
I also have a lot of models to clean. Some plastic, some painted plastic.
Others are painted cast iron . Many have decals on them. Some ceramic.
The hardest thing to get off is the residue from just sitting there I don't just
mean dust. I mean the film that gets stuck on along with the dust. Kills the shine
even after cleaning.
Some cleaning techniques will clean, but will kill the gloss on a nice model.
So, the question is how to clean without hurting the surface of a model,
including paint and decals?
How can the shine be recovered on an otherwise clean model?
I have some AF Gilbert items that could use attention.
I suppose mild soapy water would work to some degree. Would it
harm some surfaces and be kind to others? One would have to be quick
so as not to loosen decals.
Using oil will make a shine, but it also provides a surface for dust to cling to.
A sticky surface can feel non sticky to your hand, but the dust will find it sooner
or later.
Also one has to be careful of models with clear windows.
Anyone out there work in a big city museum? I try and keep all my items in a
glass
case. It is the items not in the case I am concerned with.
I know, I know, Put the model in a glass vacuum chamber. Not half a bad idea,
until I need to get at the model. HMMmmm?

Seriously, any other ideas out there?

Roger Hinds.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20405 From: Paul Yorke Date: 7/19/2002
Subject: Re: Todays NMRA Event Photos
I shot some more today. I will post them on Saturday.
Tom Robertson & his wife own and setup up the layout.
It was at Scranton last year.
--- jahoozdumm <eighthmile@...> wrote:
> Many thanx for the pix Paul, that must've taken some
> time. Who are
> the owners of this layout? Are they the folks
> setting it up?
>
>
> Chuck F.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and
> accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 20406 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/19/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, July 21, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20407 From: Steve Blancard Date: 7/19/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning Plastic
How about waxing it?

Steve Blancard

IronHorse wrote:

> I also have a lot of models to clean. Some plastic, some painted plastic.
> Others are painted cast iron . Many have decals on them. Some ceramic.
> The hardest thing to get off is the residue from just sitting there I don't just
> mean dust. I mean the film that gets stuck on along with the dust. Kills the shine
> even after cleaning.
> Some cleaning techniques will clean, but will kill the gloss on a nice model.
> So, the question is how to clean without hurting the surface of a model,
> including paint and decals?
> How can the shine be recovered on an otherwise clean model?
> I have some AF Gilbert items that could use attention.
> I suppose mild soapy water would work to some degree. Would it
> harm some surfaces and be kind to others? One would have to be quick
> so as not to loosen decals.
> Using oil will make a shine, but it also provides a surface for dust to cling to.
> A sticky surface can feel non sticky to your hand, but the dust will find it sooner
> or later.
> Also one has to be careful of models with clear windows.
> Anyone out there work in a big city museum? I try and keep all my items in a
> glass
> case. It is the items not in the case I am concerned with.
> I know, I know, Put the model in a glass vacuum chamber. Not half a bad idea,
> until I need to get at the model. HMMmmm?
>
> Seriously, any other ideas out there?
>
> Roger Hinds.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 20408 From: nasglibrary Date: 7/19/2002
Subject: Mobley Library Vacation
All --

The Russell M. Mobley Memorial Library & Archive will be on vacation
from July 30 through August 6 so that the Librarian may attend the NASG
Convention in Cleveland.

Dick Karnes, Librarian
Group: S-Trains Message: 20409 From: TCS Date: 7/19/2002
Subject: New Decals from Oddballs Decal - N, HO, S and O scales
701 Kansas & Oklahoma Railroad Hood units (2000+)

702 T&P blue & grey F-7, A & B diesel cab units. (1950+) HO & N scale
$6.25, S & O scale $12.50

703 GACX, North Dakota Mill 50 foot 2 bay airslide. (11-90)

704 Southern 70 ton 2 bay covered hopper. (5-75)

Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-.
N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These
should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so.

If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N,
HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $2.00 for p&h. You buy this catalog once,
then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring
binder.

---
---
Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals
N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals
26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054
Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@...
Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/
Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/
NMRA Member #121756
Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20410 From: notcoldenough Date: 7/20/2002
Subject: Re: Painting Celotex
Raul wrote => but when all the trains are running there is a lot of
noise

Raul,

Another suggestion to reduce noise - I went to a fabric store and
bought felt cloth to put on my layout. Even though the felt is
not very thick it does a good job at dampning the sound. I covered
the felt with a roll of "grass" covered paper I bought at the hobby
shop. I did not nail the track down because I felt that would have
transmitted noise to the underlying plywood.

Hope that helps.

John G
Group: S-Trains Message: 20411 From: Michael Christensen Date: 7/20/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning Plastic
What would you use for wax? What about a coat of
clear clear gloss enamel?
--- Steve Blancard <splitdorf@...> wrote:
> How about waxing it?
>
> Steve Blancard
>
> IronHorse wrote:
>
> > I also have a lot of models to clean. Some
> plastic, some painted plastic.
> > Others are painted cast iron . Many have decals
> on them. Some ceramic.
> > The hardest thing to get off is the residue from
> just sitting there I don't just
> > mean dust. I mean the film that gets stuck on
> along with the dust. Kills the shine
> > even after cleaning.
> > Some cleaning techniques will clean, but will
> kill the gloss on a nice model.
> > So, the question is how to clean without hurting
> the surface of a model,
> > including paint and decals?
> > How can the shine be recovered on an otherwise
> clean model?
> > I have some AF Gilbert items that could use
> attention.
> > I suppose mild soapy water would work to some
> degree. Would it
> > harm some surfaces and be kind to others? One
> would have to be quick
> > so as not to loosen decals.
> > Using oil will make a shine, but it also provides
> a surface for dust to cling to.
> > A sticky surface can feel non sticky to your hand,
> but the dust will find it sooner
> > or later.
> > Also one has to be careful of models with clear
> windows.
> > Anyone out there work in a big city museum? I
> try and keep all my items in a
> > glass
> > case. It is the items not in the case I am
> concerned with.
> > I know, I know, Put the model in a glass
> vacuum chamber. Not half a bad idea,
> > until I need to get at the model. HMMmmm?
> >
> > Seriously, any other ideas out there?
> >
> > Roger Hinds.
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and
> accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and
> accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 20412 From: Doug Peck Date: 7/20/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning plastic
I have never had a problem cleaning with a mild dish detergent, like DAWN,
and warm water. I use a hair-dryer and soft cloth to dry thoroughly.
Then, when finished, I give it a light spray of ENDUST, and wipe it down.
This gives it a like-new sheen (metal or plastic), but does not leave a waxy
surface that attracts and catches dust. I've never had a problem with it. It
won't harm the plastic windows, although getting it on them does require a
bit of time to wipe it off each of them again !....I try to avoid the
windows as much as I can.

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours - Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays: 2-5 PM (EST), and 7-9 PM.
Saturdays: 2-5 PM.
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please.)
Website: www.portlines.com
E-mail: doug@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20413 From: IronHorse Date: 7/20/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning Plastic
Wax would look good for a while. However all wax products are a micro
slimy surface. Some say wax hardens which is true to some degree.
Anyway I think dust would stick to wax after a while. What would happen
to the surface on a hot summer day. What would wax do to decals and
painted surfaces. Some wax eventually whitens after while.
I don't think wax is suitable for models. To tricky to play around with.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 20414 From: Paul Yorke Date: 7/20/2002
Subject: NMRA - Day 2 (last day for me)
I was at the NMRA convention yesterday from about 9:30am to 3pm.
I managed to get some pretty good hand held pictures using my Sony
digital.

You will also find some links to some of the displayed vendor pictures.
Photographs include:
Banta Model Works, Berkshire (signals), Bills Train Shop, California
Roadbed, Loy's Toys (DCC), Milo & Bill's portable layout, N Way
Products (signals), S-Helper / Showcase Line, Tom Robinson's layout,
'United Traction Trolley' brought in by John Foley (direct all questions
to him).

Tom's layout was featured in yesterdays pictures. Without the
plexiglass screens I was able to get some pretty good shots. Please let
him know if you appreciate all his hard work and efforts. His layout
turned lots of heads at the show. his email is tomrsgauge at alltel dot
net . I think he is doing a great thing for S.


Friday's pictures ...
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/nmra/day2/
Thursday's are at...
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/nmra/day1/

I hope to see some of you guys at Cleveland.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20415 From: David Dewey Date: 7/20/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning Plastic
I have avoided posting to this question, because it is so difficult to be
"right" all of the time.
Clear coating is not usually an option--many paints will attract the
plastic, and the process is seldom reversible.
Wax does attract other problems!
Some Flyer lettering dissolves with detergents, sometimes even just water!
This is usually the white lettering, BTW, and only on certain production
times--but I don't have documentation on which ones! Usually the shiny
plastic cars from the link period, but not always!
Since the roofs are usually where the dirt accumulates, I have been know to
use detergent there, being very careful to not let it go down the sides,
where the lettering is. I use a soft toothbrush, although there are those
who say that is too abrasive.
For white residue on couplers I use a hair dryer to heat them until the
white dissolves, then brush w/ toothbrush to physically remove it. This
seems to last quite a while and sometimes frees up sticky link couplers.
Also works on wheels.
I know I've forgotten something.
For prevention, I'm told some form of electrostatic filter in the
heating/cooling system works wonders for dust reduction.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20416 From: nasglibrary Date: 7/20/2002
Subject: Mobley Library Vacation
All --

The Russell M. Mobley Memorial Library & Archive will be on vacation
from July 30 through August 6 so that the Librarian may attend the NASG
Convention in Cleveland.

Dick Karnes, Librarian
Group: S-Trains Message: 20417 From: IronHorse Date: 7/21/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning Plastic
What I am looking for is a way to put the shine back in
after it has gone after many years of sitting around.
Gloss clear coat is good for a new model before inserting
windows and decals.
I have seen a decal wrinkle under a new coat of clear coat.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 20418 From: IronHorse Date: 7/21/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning plastic
Endust seems like a possibility. I haven't looked into that yet.
I wonder if it could be applied to a rag and wiped over a model.
Would that work?

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 20419 From: plotnick Date: 7/21/2002
Subject: Fall S-fest
The next Fall S-fest will be the biggest and best ever! Register now and make
sure to reserve the limited edition convention cars! We currently have 15
layouts committed for Sunday tours!

See:

http://www.trainweb.org/casg/sfest.html
For complete information.

_Roy Plotnick, CASG

Roy E. Plotnick
Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences
University of Illinois at Chicago
845 W. Taylor St.
Chicago, Il .60607
phone: 312-996-2111 630-252-6377(May-August)
e-mail: plotnick@...
homepage: http://www.uic.edu/depts/geos/people/faculty/plotnick.html

"Those who do not know the literature are condemned to repeat it."
Group: S-Trains Message: 20420 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/21/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, July 21, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20421 From: Roger Walton Date: 7/21/2002
Subject: poll
I also am having trouble being recognized by Yahoo as a member of the
S-Trains group, so I can't respond to the poll that way. I am a member only
of TCA of the listed groups.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20422 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 7/21/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning plastic
Several years ago I cleaned some old
model railroad cars with Armorall,
used for dashboards of automobiles,
with great results. Armorall has some
new products for vinyl and glass.

Glenn

IronHorse wrote:
Endust seems like a possibility. I haven't looked into that yet.
I wonder if it could be applied to a rag and wiped over a model.
Would that work?

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 20423 From: Robert E. Yablonski Date: 7/21/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1524
I have one green painted AF car that dishwashing soap like ivory took off
the paint almost instantly. Oops.

Most of the time a bit of soap and water is all that is needed. Shine?
These things did not shine when I purchased them 40 years ago so who cares.

Robert E. Yablonski

>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20424 From: david.avedesian@clarkconstruction.com Date: 7/21/2002
Subject: David Avedesian/Clark is out of the office.
I will be out of the office starting 07/19/2002 and will not return until
12/31/2002.

I will be pursuing other ventures. If you would like to contact me, please
call me at 301.929.9000. Thank you, David
Group: S-Trains Message: 20425 From: David Dewey Date: 7/21/2002
Subject: Re: David Avedesian/Clark is out of the office.
Other Ventures? There is life outside of S- trains????
Group: S-Trains Message: 20426 From: David Dewey Date: 7/22/2002
Subject: Cleaning Plastic
Actually very few AF pieces were shiny. The plastic colored pieces up to
about '54 were, like the plastic MKT boxcar, and the gons. The NP passenger
set was glossy too, but one of the few painted glossy units. Most everything
else was a satin to dull finish.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20427 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 7/22/2002
Subject: Dust
RY Says,
Shine?
These things did not shine when I purchased them 40 years ago so who cares

CB says,
They probably didn't have dust on them 40 yrs ago either.( This being said
with a smile on my face!)
Group: S-Trains Message: 20428 From: Neimanis,V. [NCR] Date: 7/22/2002
Subject: Re: Poll
I too tried vainly to access Yahoo as member of the S-trains list but with
no luck.

I am but a member of this list and have no other memberships.

V. Neimanis

_______________________________________________

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 17:48:26 -0400
From: Roger Walton <rogerw53@...>
Subject: poll

I also am having trouble being recognized by Yahoo as a member of the
S-Trains group, so I can't respond to the poll that way. I am a member only
of TCA of the listed groups.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20429 From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca Date: 7/22/2002
Subject: service interruption
Further to what Roger Walton and Vic Neimanis have said regarding
difficulty in communicating with Yahoo, the problem involves not only S
Trains.
I subscribe also to CNet and NAR. Seven weeks ago I suddenly ceased receiving
message traffic on all three.
I have not yet been able to contact Yahoo! about the problem, but in the
meantime all three have gradually come back.
Of course the tasteless advertising was never interrupted.
Joe Pereira

email: sigma@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20430 From: rodgers_carl Date: 7/22/2002
Subject: Plastic Cleaning
There are actual products you can, "nasty word", BUY, that are
plastic cleaners. They have anti static and anti mildew properties.
I've used 2 from one of the AF parts dealers that work just fine.
They cost a bit, but what's more important, a few bucks or your
prized possessions?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20431 From: yazfacts Date: 7/22/2002
Subject: North Carloina way...........
Dear Group,
I'm heading down to North Carolina in about two weeks. I was
just wondering if anyone knew of any hobby (train) shops in the
Atlantic / Moorehead City area of the state ?? It's in the area of the
state by Cape Lookout Island. The southern most tip of the Outer Banks
. Please post any and all responces.Thanks in advance.....Bob S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20432 From: Al Galli Date: 7/22/2002
Subject: HO sets
I have a chance to buy two AF HO Sets. 1 is the NP passenger set 30710
and the other is a freight set 30715. Both are mint in the box. Any
opinions on what they are worth.

Thanks

Al Galli
Group: S-Trains Message: 20433 From: Steve Blancard Date: 7/22/2002
Subject: American Flyer compatable couplers
I'm in the process of converting a Bachmann ON30 passenger car to S.
I'm trying to find a coupler that will work using the original coupler
box. Does anyone know if Kadee 802s are compatable with AF couplers?

If not what can I use? Bolster mounted couplers look to be a very
difficult proposition.

Thanks,
Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 20434 From: IronHorse Date: 7/22/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning Plastic
I should have mentioned. I want to get the sheen on top of the car to look like
the side of the car. Over the years different kinds of moisture sticks to the cat
along with dust. I am not referring to cellar or attic storage. Just a plain ole
room.

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 20435 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 7/22/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer compatable couplers
Steve,
The Bachmann EZ couplers will mate with Kadee 802's, so if you've got a
AF box car to paint up as an Express Mailer etc. cut the AF coupler neck
off one truck and body mount a Kadee on one end to grab the Bachmann
Combo Car, and leave the AF coupler to connect to your pulling side. You
should get a NASG or KADEE "S" coupler height gauge to make the height
adjustments as the thinner couplers are less forgiving than the thick
Lobster Claw couplers of AF. If you are going with AM 4 wheel heavy
weight trucks you can buy the long arm AM passenger car couplers that fit
into the top of the trucks in the slot, they are completely compatable
with AF couplers. See ya' SteveJay-NASG

On Mon, 22 Jul 2002 20:06:52 -0400 Steve Blancard <splitdorf@...>
writes:
> I'm in the process of converting a Bachmann ON30 passenger car to S.
> I'm trying to find a coupler that will work using the original
> coupler
> box. Does anyone know if Kadee 802s are compatable with AF couplers?
>
> If not what can I use? Bolster mounted couplers look to be a very
> difficult proposition.
>
> Thanks,
> Steve Blancard
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20436 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 7/23/2002
Subject: North Carolina
>It's in the area of the
>state by Cape Lookout Island. The southern most tip of the Outer Banks.

Y'all goin' down t' Okracoke? T'ain't nothin down there but sand and the
Blackbeard (the pirate) Museum. Brinf SPF 45 and your own basting brush.
Before you take the ferry across to the island, eat some Bar-B-Que at
Porkys. Slow cooked the Southern way. Also, make sure you eat Redfish in
one of the local restaurants.

That's it, that's what there is to do. People don' have no hobbies, it's
too damn hot!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20437 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 7/23/2002
Subject: Re: Cleaning Plastic
Roger said:
>Over the years different kinds of moisture sticks to the cat
>along with dust.

And then, of course, the cat rubs the trains? I would think that would
polish them up to a shine.
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20438 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 7/23/2002
Subject: NASG convention / Video
I am sure several of you that attend the upcoming convention will take some
nice video of same. I am not going to be able to attend after all and would
hope that some of you will supply video for an upcoming Volume of S-Gauge
Model Railroading. If you do, please try to use some supplemental lighting on
the tour layouts. Have fun everybody......Steve & Sam
PS There are copies of all five volumes to date still available at $14 each.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20439 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 7/23/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1526
Value of H.O. sets in mint condition. Both sets 30710 & 30715 are from
1961. The RAMBLER, fright set $110.00, & the PACIFIC CLIPPER passenger
set $150.00.

Jerry 77-11644

________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 20440 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/23/2002
Subject: SAWMILL
Anyone that would like a LTI American Flyer Sawmill # 6-949806 for $95.00
Shipping & ins, included contact me off list. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20441 From: afjeff_56 Date: 7/23/2002
Subject: S gauge
Does any out there know where they came up with the S in S gauge?
how did someone come up that letter for are SUPERIOR train's !!!!!!!!!
<afjeff56>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20442 From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade Date: 7/23/2002
Subject: Russ Mobley's Collection for Sale
Howdy Friends

Just heard from Pete Silcox that he will be bring the remainder of Russ'
stuff to Cleveland next week. We will update the listing in the file
section after the convention.

Thanks
Bill
--
============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================
Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer
Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-643-1105 FAX: 813-681-7326
B.T.S. http://www.btsrr.com
S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com
Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20443 From: fjg1870 Date: 7/23/2002
Subject: Re: S gauge
--- In S-Trains@y..., "afjeff_56" <afjeff_56@y...> wrote:
Does any out there know where they came up with the S in S gauge?
how did someone come up that letter for are SUPERIOR train's !!!!!!!!!
<afjeff56>

According to the story I heard, in the 1940's, the NMRA decided that
the name C-D (Cleveland Designed), the original name used for 1/64
models, was tied too clostly to the manufacturer's name. They decided
that S would be a good choice because of the S's that were used in
three SixteenthS (3/16) and one Sixty fourth (1/64).

Walt Danylak
Group: S-Trains Message: 20444 From: frilen2 Date: 7/23/2002
Subject: Re: "S" Gauge
Regarding "S" Gauge.....Louis Hertz wrote in his book "The Complete
Book of Railroading" in 1951 "No 1 gauge of 1 ¾ in., using 3/8
in.
scale is more or less the European counterpart of our Standard
Gauge.... ....Just as HO gauge takes it's name from the fact that
that it is approximately "Half O" so should the 7/8 in gauge
properly be termed H1 gauge , for "Half One" and it was originally
known under this name when first suggested in England some years
ago. American manufactures have more recently, however preferred
the arbitrary designation S gauge, the "S" standing for the
sixteenths of an inch in which the gauge is scaled, although the
term "S gauge" had previously been used on boxes by one manufacturer
of 2 1/8 in gauge tinplate as an abbreviation for "Standard Gauge."
Hope that helps...Karl
Group: S-Trains Message: 20445 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 7/24/2002
Subject: Flyer for sale
Before this stuff goes on "E" Bay I would offer it to any list member first.
I have 27 Caboose bodies ,17 with chassis and 10 without,
1 484 "O" gauge hack and 6ea 806 chassis. Condition varies from junk to
VG.

Also for sale are 19 Link & Pin trucks with black wt., 10 L&P trucks with
no wt. and 7 L&P trucks with the brass wt. These are all in good shape and
ready to run.


If you are interested let me know off list.

Thanks,
Kenneth Stoudt
1016 South 12th Street
Allentown, PA 18103
P 610-437-6087



+
Group: S-Trains Message: 20446 From: John Foley Date: 7/24/2002
Subject: Will Holt
Hi Folks
Does anyone have an email address for Will Holt.
He is a member of the Chicago S Gaugers.
Thanks
John Foley
Group: S-Trains Message: 20447 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 7/25/2002
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] SHS Track
Hi John:
I think the comment was about their original turnouts, that they were
not closed-frog type, and could not accommodate scale wheels. I think
the track itself is around code 125 and fine for heavy mainline use in
scale modelling with scale wheels. I also have heard that SHS is in the
process of modifying their current production turnouts (~#3?) to
accommodate scale wheels and their new turnouts (#5?) will also be able
to handle scale wheels. In summary, I think SHS track will handle both
scale and hi-rail wheels, and their turnouts will in the near future. I
am sure that Don will give you particulars in an e-mail!
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)

John Degnan wrote:

>If I remember correctly, I have heard some of you say that the SHS "S-Trax"
>155# rail track is not suitable for locos and such that have been converted
>for "scale" wheels, etc, etc.
>
>So...
>
>Has SHS ever considered releasing the track with code 100 rail for us
>"scale" types? If not, I'd like to recommend that SHS consider it...
>because, myself included, I know of a number of folks who say they would
>give S scale another look if (as they said) "better track was availible."
>
>So how about it, SHS?!?
>
>
>John Degnan
>Seaboard ERA Lines Image Gallery
>www.trainweb.org/seaboard
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>showcaseline-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20448 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 7/25/2002
Subject: Yahoo Groups
Hi all:
As an aside, I sent a message about SHS track to the three groups and
received the same message back from all three groups in under 30
seconds!! It might be because I wrote it at around 5 am east coast time
in the US and there isn't too much going on at that time. Oh well, I
have usually had this type of response, but only from one of the groups.
The others generally took up to 4 minutes to send me the message.
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)
Group: S-Trains Message: 20449 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 7/25/2002
Subject: Re: Will Holt
Check the CASG website I believe his address is located there

John Griffin
Layout Chairman
S-Fest 2002
Group: S-Trains Message: 20450 From: TED R LARSON Date: 7/25/2002
Subject: cross bucks
Occasionally I see a report that crossbucks from another scale, or toy
train crossbucks might be usable for S scale. Here's some data to help
you decide if they are "good enough". According to Mainline Modeler,
April 2002, the Union Pacific standard crossbuck design is as follows:
center of crossbucks - 10' 6" from ground
crossbuck blades - 9" wide x 5' long
post - 4" OD

Ted Larson
http://www.cauce.org

________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 20451 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 7/25/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer- S Gauge/Scale Collection For Sale
From: Al Minutoli

Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:16:49 -0400
Subject: Re: American Flyer- S Gauge/Scale Collection For Sale
Hi: I am a long time collector of American Flyer and S gauge/ S Scale
trains. A recent change in life style necessitates that I sell the
better part of my collection. I would like to sell my trains and
accessories to a collector, not a dealer. One who enjoys the hobby as
much as I do. I prefer to sell the entire collection in bulk and am in
the process of doing a concise inventory. Please let me know if you are
interested or wish to recommend a fellow club member or hobbyist. Also, note
that I am not a dealer. Please feel free to visit my web site :
http://www.hightechsearch.org/Trains which was designed to encourage the
hobby. The retail value according to the TM and/or Greenberg Guides around
13K. However, I am negotiable. I also have an elaborate portable Train
Layout Board 5' X 10" that closes into a 5'X5' suitcase on commercial
wheels with locks and handles.Thank you.

--
Al Minutoli
P.O. Box 6231
Delray Beach, FL. 33482
(561) 865-2127 Office
(561) 865-2175 Fax
Email: aminutoli@...
Web site Http://www.HighTechSearch.org/Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 20452 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/25/2002
Subject: AFSGSLA ???
Anyone know what the letters on a LTI # 48495 Monsanto tank car stand for?
They are from an "S" Fest 1995? I'm going to list it soon, so if anyone
also knows what it is worth will help. Mike S
Thank You


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20453 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/25/2002
Subject: TANK CAR
PS: It is brand new in the box Mike S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20454 From: milayman@aol.com Date: 7/25/2002
Subject: Trains
March 24, 2002. 3 PM Along Santa Fe Drive just north of Littleton. (1)
Miscellaneous freight consist of mostly loaded gondolas headed by two Rio
Grande diesels (yes, Rio Grande). Consist was head south. (2 at same time)
Union Pacific coal train headed north. Five Union Pacific Diesels were on the
front end. The new hopper cars were empty. There is triple track. (3 at the
same time) A Regional Transit three cars train was going over the two trains
mentioned. RTD switches from the West side of the major tracks to the East
side. I didn't have a camera but I wanted you to know there is traffic
Marvin
Group: S-Trains Message: 20455 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/25/2002
Subject: Re: AFSGSLA ???
Thank You for your help. a little looking with a magnifying glass helped
too. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20456 From: amerflyr@aol.com Date: 7/26/2002
Subject: 752 Coal Loader
Does anyone have a source for a replacement (black) cloth covered wire
assembly for the lead to the clamshell bucket on a 752? I'd like something
that looks as close to the original as possible.

Thanks,

Chuck Sullivan
Frederick, MD


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20457 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 7/26/2002
Subject: Re: North Carolina way...........
Dear Bob:
As always, I am a few days behind in my reading.

I just returned from a week at Buxton, NC over July 4th.

In Manteo there is an excellent shop. It is

Allaboard
529 South Virginia Dare Rd. & Hwy 64
Weeping Radish Complex
Manteo, NC 27954
www.beachlink.com/allaboard
e-mail: allaboard@...
toll free: 1-877-504-TOYS

They are across the street from "Big Al's" restaurant in the Christmas shop
complex. (About 20 shops in 5 - 10 buildings. BIG complex with parking.)
If you are into American Flyer, Lionel Flyer, or Lionel they are worth the
visit. Ask if you need directions, I found them because Catherine (my wife)
ALWAYS visits the Christmas shop. West of the Christmas shop (across a
small bridge) is the rest of the complex and a small playground area where I
get to watch the girls. I spotted this shop and had to go in.
If you are into lighthouses, Lionel (of all companies) produced a
credible Hattaras Lighthouse in 2000. He has it. (He has lots of it.) It
is $159.95 (list) with a fog horn. (Bwwwwwahhhh-ooooooo. It runs only when
activated. It can be ignored.) The top includes a rotating beacon with two
white LEDs. I have run mine off a 4 1/2B transformer and it runs from about
10 volts on up. (It did that the full five minutes of warm-up before the
motor kicked in and it started rotating -- just as the instructions warned.)
I don't know if it will run off of DC. The beacon provides a real beacon
which can be followed on the walls in a dark room. It has the prototypical
'flash' if you look right at it while it is rotating. (dim, getting
brighter, sudden flash, getting dimmer, dim, repeat.)
The lighthouse is 18 inches tall or 96 scale feet. (The real
Hattaras Light is 208 feet or 39 inches even in S Scale.) 18 inches is the
right height for the lighthouse module I plan. If I were to use a 39
lighthouse, I would have to cut a hole into the living room. I don't think
Catherine would like that and besides, the beacon would now be up there not
down in the basement! :-)

This shop was a real find with vintage American Flyer (not overpriced but
not give-a-way pricing either), Flyonel, Lionel, Atlas, HO, N, G -- all if
it ready-to-run. (He is not a parts shop although he does repairs.) He
even has a working layout with an AF Hudson pulling four aluminum passenger
cars.
He also ships. It cost me $19.50 for UPS to Milwaukee, WI in a
HUGE, HUGE box which surrounded the HUGE, HUGE box the Chinese put it into
for Lionel. (As I needed the lighthouse shipped I didn't haggle over the
price. If I had been hauling it away I would have tried. Either way it was
!SOLD!)
When I finally build the Lighthouse module, I will remove the Lionel
steel base and discard it. The fog horn is in a second building resembling
the real shed that used to hold the whale oil and later the kerosene used to
power the lighthouse before electricity -- except it is dirty yellow / gray
brick and the real one is red brick. I will hide the fog horn inside a good,
scale building. I will rewire everything so the beacon, fog horn, and the
lights inside for the stairwell are all on separate circuits. Until then it
makes an unusual companion for the Grain Elevator on my only NASG module.

Happy hunting!
Thorin


Message: 9
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:50:09 -0000
From: "yazfacts" <YAZFACTS@...>
Subject: North Carolina way...........

Dear Group,
I'm heading down to North Carolina in about two weeks. I was
just wondering if anyone knew of any hobby (train) shops in the
Atlantic / Moorehead City area of the state ?? It's in the area of the
state by Cape Lookout Island. The southern most tip of the Outer Banks
. Please post any and all responces. Thanks in advance.....Bob S.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20458 From: David Dewey Date: 7/26/2002
Subject: Some pics added to S-trains
Hi all,
I just added three pictures to the Yahoo site, two from our trip last
year to Boise showing the "inner workings" of SnS trains, and one showing
Howard'S demonstration layout at a show last year. They are in the folder
"David D's pics."
I finally got my Digital camera card reader to work!! Now about all my
other computer problems. . . .
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20459 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/26/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, July 28, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20460 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 7/26/2002
Subject: Transformer circuit breaker
Got home to find that Texas Instruments has sent me a sample circut breaker
from Mexico.

When I get some sleep, will test it out in an 18B transformer. It looks a
little bulky but maybe can be cut down if necessary.

I was away 17 days and came home to find 69 spam messages and 8 klez worms
in my mailbox.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20461 From: Al Reibel Date: 7/27/2002
Subject: Floodlight car help!
Hello!
I have a Flyer floodlight car (green plastic generator)
that needs a little tlc. It's in good shape, but the wire
from the pick up is yanked out of the light itself.
I ned to know how the light comes apart to resolder
it? I took the lense out, and the socket section looks
like it's pressed in, but I wanted to ask before I
got in trouble!
Thanks,
Al Reibel
Group: S-Trains Message: 20462 From: TED R LARSON Date: 7/27/2002
Subject: HELP
Folks, your moderators need some help!

We are repeatedly receiving virus attachments addressed to s-trains owner
or s-scale owner. SOMEBODYs (yes plural, the messages are coming from
multiple sources) that have these addresses in their address book has a
BAD VIRUS. ALL of you, PLEASE, make sure that you have anti-virus
software. If it is old, get a new one or get an upgrade. Make sure that
you update the antivirus directory frequently. Please note that upgrade
and update are TWO different things. BOTH are necessary. From your
owner's manual or software website, learn how to verify that your update
actually took effect (check ABOUT or check preferences). If you don't do
this, you are putting your computer, and everybody else at risk. Be
aware, you are most at risk if you are using MS Outlook for your e-mail.
Alternatives include Netscape Messenger, Eudora, and Pegasus. I'm told
that if you use MS Address Book you can also be at risk. YUP, the virus
writers like to target MS.

Back to trains!

Ted Larson
http://www.cauce.org


________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 20463 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 7/27/2002
Subject: AFSGSLA
Mike, and others,

I thought I had replied on Friday, but nothing showed up in my digest
form.

AFSGSLA stands for "American Flyer "S" Gaugers (of the) St. Louis Area".
At least that is what it says on my club name tag.

Value of the car? I think I paid $50.00 the year after the event through
the club. I suppose you could check the Greenberg guide! ;<)

Bill

________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 20464 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 7/27/2002
Subject: Re: AFSGSLA
Thank You William,
Yes that was the correct info on
the letters. T&M has it listed for $120.00. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20465 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 7/27/2002
Subject: floodlight car help
Al: there is always more than one way to do a repair like that. For
example, this list came up with seven different ways to attach a loose
steam loco drive wheel, all of which work! All I can tell you is how I do
it.

I've never been able to snap the reflector out of the globe as is. The
reflector is held in place by four little nubs inside the globe. I grind
these down little by little with an egg shaped dentist's drill bit chucked
in an electric drill or dremel, just enough so that the reflector can be
snapped out by pushing a thin tool through the hole formerly occupied by
the wire. Then, resolder the wire and snap the reflector back in place.
If the reflector doesn't snap back in solidly, a few discreet drops of ACC
on the remains of the nubs will hold it in place.

Of course, an egg shaped dentist's drill bit is not absolutely necessary
either! There are lots of little rounded grinding tools that will do the
job. Dentist's drill bits are pretty handy for fixing trains though. The
only down side is that once you learn to use them, you can follow and
understand every move your dentist makes inside your mouth, and this is not
fun. Especially when he makes a mistake!

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20466 From: David Dewey Date: 7/27/2002
Subject: HELP--not trains, but computer (PC)
Sorry to bring up a non-train question, but I figure my train buddies will
know the answer, as no one around here seems to! (You want me to call tech
support? HaHA HA HA!--gee this is a nicely padded room. . . .)
My New computer runs win98SE. It has a Western Digital 30GBB 54000rpm drive.
The BIOS reads it as a 30GB drive. Win98SE reads it as a 1.99GB drive.
(yes, under 2). What'd I do wrong??
Thanks, Back to the regular programming now.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20467 From: Victor Bereskin Date: 7/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1531
You didn't do anything wrong. That is the way a lot windows computers come.
The missing portion of your drive is there, but not assigned to a partition
and formated. I have found that Partition Magic 7.0 does a nice job of
bringing that missing 28Gig out of hiding.


> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:57:02 -0700
> From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
> Subject: HELP--not trains, but computer (PC)
>
> Sorry to bring up a non-train question, but I figure my train buddies will
> know the answer, as no one around here seems to! (You want me to call tech
> support? HaHA HA HA!--gee this is a nicely padded room. . . .)
> My New computer runs win98SE. It has a Western Digital 30GBB 54000rpm
drive.
> The BIOS reads it as a 30GB drive. Win98SE reads it as a 1.99GB drive.
> (yes, under 2). What'd I do wrong??
> Thanks, Back to the regular programming now.
> S'
> David D.
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20468 From: Peter Ervin Date: 7/27/2002
Subject: Viruses
I have been a subscriber to this list for 3 or 4 years and I have never
gotten a virus from it or anything else. And I don't (I hate to admit)
have anti-virus software installed on my computer at home. But I do use
Eudora for my email instead of Outlook. I heard somewhere that most
viruses are written for Outlook; I think that's why I have so few problems.

I have occasionally received attachments that contained viruses, but I have
never opened them. I don't open attachments unless I know the sender, and
even then I don't open them if anything looks the least bit odd.

I'd be interested to hear if other subscribers are using Eudora and, if so,
what is their experience with viruses.

Peter Ervin
Group: S-Trains Message: 20469 From: Chuck Smith Date: 7/27/2002
Subject: Re: Viruses
I used Eudora for a few years and never had a virus. Have used Netscape
for the last few (3-4) years and have had 2 instances of a virus. I use
a current version of McAfee and get almost weekly updates from them. No
problems since getting McAfee. BTW, it did find a virus a few weeks ago
and cleaned it up.

Peter Ervin wrote:
>
> I have been a subscriber to this list for 3 or 4 years and I have never
> gotten a virus from it or anything else. And I don't (I hate to admit)
> have anti-virus software installed on my computer at home. But I do use
> Eudora for my email instead of Outlook. I heard somewhere that most
> viruses are written for Outlook; I think that's why I have so few problems.
>
> I have occasionally received attachments that contained viruses, but I have
> never opened them. I don't open attachments unless I know the sender, and
> even then I don't open them if anything looks the least bit odd.
>
> I'd be interested to hear if other subscribers are using Eudora and, if so,
> what is their experience with viruses.
>
> Peter Ervin
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 20470 From: David Dewey Date: 7/27/2002
Subject: Thanks for the computer help!!
Well, that's the problem, I didn't use the Western Digital harddrive setup
disk when I first started the system, so it isn't partitioned, nor set for
Fat32 (since I'm always trying to lose weight, I didn't think I wanted
FAT!). Fortunately, I have not put much data on the machine yet, just
programs, so I will see what happens when I use Fdisk. If I loose
everything, no big deal, as I've only put programs on the system so far, and
not many of those.
THANK YOU EVERYONE!! I got some really good advice, and even offers to guide
me thorugh the process. I will try it probably Monday, as tomorrow is
Linda's dad's 90th birthday, so probably won't be home until LATE and then
probably too tired to mess with it.
I'm sure I'll also miss chat, "see" ya all next week!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20471 From: Jerry Riechert Date: 7/28/2002
Subject: Trainz and Flyer?
Has anyone used the Trainz program to define American Flyer track and
running stock, allowing for AF type layouts? What about Plasticville
buildings? The mind boggles...

--
Jerry
Group: S-Trains Message: 20472 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/28/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, July 28, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20473 From: Tom Rolfsmeyer Date: 7/28/2002
Subject: Chat
Hi guys, I won't be able to visit with you tonight. I have a free dinner
to go to and although you are good company I just can't pass up a free
meal.

Talk to you next week.

Tom
Group: S-Trains Message: 20474 From: The Reis's Date: 7/28/2002
Subject: Blatant Sale of underpriced S helper cars
I bought a collection and have the following duplicate items to thin out.

I will put them on Ebay wednesday if there is no response here.

SHS number road desc SHS
price MY PRICE

00753 UP MOW Box $40
$32
00716 ASTF REFER $43
$35
00661 PENN BOX REBUILT $40
$32
00743 ASTF BOX REBUILT $40
$32
00179 NICK PLT TRLR ON FLAT CAR $60
$47
00198 NICK PLT EXTRA TRLR FOR ABOVE $13
$10
00188 C / NW TOFC
$60 $47
00180 ROCK ISL. TOFC $60
$47
00308 DRGW TOFC $60
$47

6-48406 LIONEL FLYER CELENESE CHEM TANKER

$55 $32


ALL ITEMS ARE LINK NEW IN AN ORIGINAL BOX WITH BOTH SETS OF WHEELS (NO
SCALE WHEELS FOR LF TANKER) .

EMAIL WITH ANY QUESTIONS, AND YOU CAN CHECK PICTURES ON THESE ITEMS ON THE
S HELPER WEBSITE. http://www.showcaseline.com/

THANKS

ERIC REIS
KENMORE, WA.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20475 From: The Reis's Date: 7/28/2002
Subject: SECOND TRY : Blatant Sale of underpriced S helper cars
I'M NOT SURE WHY THE FORMATTING GETS SO SCREWED UP
BUT HERE IS A SECOND SHOT AT IT AND i MEANT TO MENTION
THE SHIPPING WAS INCLUDED. PP TO USA.
-----Original Message-----
From: The Reis's [mailto:finnhill@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 8:31 PM
To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com; s-scale@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Blatant Sale of underpriced S helper cars


PRICES INCLUDE SHIPPING

I bought a collection and have the following duplicate items to thin out.

I will put them on Ebay wednesday if there is no response here.

SHS number road desc SHS price MY PRICE

00753 UP MOW Box $40
$32

00716 ASTF REFER $43
$35

00661 PENN BOX REBUILT $40 $32

00743 ASTF BOX REBUILT $40 $32

00179 NICK PLT TRLR ON FLAT CAR $60 $47

00198 NICK PLT EXTRA TRLR FOR ABOVE $13 $10

00188 C / NW TOFC $60
$47

00180 ROCK ISL. TOFC $60
$47

00308 DRGW TOFC $60
$47

6-48406 LIONEL FLYER CELEENESE
CHEM TANKER $55
$32


ALL ITEMS ARE LINK NEW IN AN ORIGINAL BOX WITH
BOTH SETS OF WHEELS
(NO SCALE WHEELS FOR LF TANKER) .

EMAIL WITH ANY QUESTIONS, AND YOU CAN
CHECK PICTURES ON THESE ITEMS
ON THE S HELPER WEBSITE.
http://www.showcaseline.com/

THANKS

ERIC REIS
KENMORE, WA.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20476 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 7/29/2002
Subject: Found: Gilbert Non-Train Item - Erector set - Help?
Friends,

This is off-topic for S-Trains, but is definately Gilbert related. (Says
so on the box). I thought there might be an Erector expert on the list,
or at least someone to point me in the right direction.

We are in the process of cleaning out my in-laws home of 50 years. As we
worked on Sunday I came across a "Gilbert Ride-On Erector Set" I think
the number was 10500 and the box has the date 1965 on it. I peeked
inside and it "looks" complete. It was stored in the rafters of the
garage and the box is soot stained from a fire in 1980. It has big
plastic wheels (hollow, not solid) heavy guage steel parts, and I think I
saw some paperwork near the bottom of the box. I don't know the "why" of
why it is there. By 1965 the youngest of the family would have been 12
and the picture on the box looks like it was intended for toddler use -
with adult assembly.

Any information about this item would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Bill

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20477 From: royhoffman Date: 7/29/2002
Subject: PA layouts
Just a reminder that some S scale layouts in Central PA will be open
for visitors tomorrow (Tues). Contact me if interested.
rhoffman@...

Roy
Group: S-Trains Message: 20478 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 7/29/2002
Subject: Test the waters
This is a 'test the waters' e-mail . I have a very sick wife and am only
building parts stock at this point.

Is there interest in purchasing a 44 ton steeplecab, built up and
ready-to-run in S?

These would be the Hoquat shell over a regauged Athearn mechanism. These
would be like mine which were just in the Dispatch in a photo by Ed.
(Thanks Ed!)

Over the next couple of years I am going to build two or three more. As it
would be little more work, I thinking of building about 10 of the critters.
They would be offered $350 - $400 each, painted, wired for DC, etc. (DCC
with or without sound would be extra.)

Options would include
- AF / Scale couplers
- Ace Highrail / Scale RP-25 wheels
- Pantograph or Pole (or neither)
- Side frames with or without third rail shoes.
- DC or DCC (no AC). As I can't find trolley sound, I can not offer
sound as an option.
- Paint would be North Shore (CNS&M) or Iowa Traction (IATR). Mine are
all painted Iowa Traction.
- North Shore prototype numbers were 450, 451, and 452.
- IATR numbers are 40 - 49.

Any interest?
Thorin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20479 From: TED R LARSON Date: 7/29/2002
Subject: Convention
Anybody want my reservation at "the other" hotel, before I call and
cancel it?
If so, call me before 10PM EDT.
585-223-0917

Ted Larson
http://www.cauce.org

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20480 From: IronHorse Date: 7/30/2002
Subject: NH train stations.
Hi Guy"S";

I am in dire need of information on 2 train stations in NH.
1. The North Conway station.
2. The Crawford Notch station.

I remember "how to" articles was done on modeling these stations.
If anyone can tell me the year and month of those articles I would
greatly appreciate it.
I think they were in the Model rr Craftsman magazines.
Maybe the Model Railroader ?
I have gone through a few stacks of those magazines looking. No luck yet.
Anyway I probably have the issues. It is a matter of which one.

So if someone can help I would be grateful.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 20481 From: knockbill Date: 7/30/2002
Subject: floodlighty car
Hi Al
I've drilled a small hole through the rivit at the bottom of the bulb
socket, and fished a wire through the socket & then through the
housing... it doesn't line up perfectly, but it can be done...use a
small stiff wire to fish with & a flexible wire for the connection,,
you then solder it through the socket..
This way you don't have to remove the reflector from the housing

Good luck
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 20482 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 7/30/2002
Subject: NH train stations
Roger: There are four photos of the Canton Jct Station in "The New Haven
Railroad in the Streamline Era", by Doughty, on pp. 53, 75, 77, and 87.
Don't know how much they would help though.

I never heard of Crawford Notch. Where was it?

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20483 From: iradiate1967 Date: 7/30/2002
Subject: SHS Southern Pacific F3 shell #302, trade for undec.
Hello all. I have a complete shell with glass, horns, numberboards,
and a pilot for the SHS F3, it is road number 302. It is in
excellent condition. I want an undec. shell, and I am willing to
swap only. It seems too pretty to strip down, but that will have to
be done if there are no takers. If you are interested drop me a
line! PS: If any of you see an undec shell at the convention call
me! 913-269-2427.

Vince
Group: S-Trains Message: 20484 From: af21115 Date: 7/30/2002
Subject: Auction Fraud OT
Worth reading if you use any internet auctions....

http://www.msnbc.com/news/784132.asp?cp1=1#BODY
Group: S-Trains Message: 20485 From: Pierre Paradis Date: 7/30/2002
Subject: AF NEW HAVEN 494-495 need information.....
Hello, I bought this pair alco diesel this week
on an auction near to my home and the e-unit
inside is broken( skates on it) the barrel is OK,
does anyones can told me how mutch it cost to get
those parts, and does the horn can working with a
lionel transformer with horn button on it, thank
you to answer, I start to collect American flyer
train for about 5 months only. Peter..

__________________________________________________________
Lèche-vitrine ou lèche-écran ?
magasinage.yahoo.ca
Group: S-Trains Message: 20486 From: TCS Date: 7/30/2002
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scales
705 Far-Mar-Co PS2CD covered hopper. 7-67. 3 color graphics. 3 color
Far-Mar-Co logo.

706 KCS 18 rib PS covered hopper. Late 90's. 5 color graphics. Has COOP
and Far-Mar-Co logos.

707 CGW 40' boxcar. 12-67. 4 color graphics. 36 inches CGW lucky stripe
logo and 2 ft white letters SL.

708 IMRL 50' plug door boxcar. Late 90's. 4 color graphics. Red & white
logo.

Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-.
N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These
should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so.

If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N,
HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $2.00 for p&h. You buy this catalog once,
then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring
binder.

---
---
Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals
N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals
26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054
Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@...
Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/
Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/
NMRA Member #121756
Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20487 From: Rhett T. George Date: 7/31/2002
Subject: North Conway station
- Greetings -

The North Conway station was described in MR, probably in the 1990-
1995 era.

While visiting NH about 12 years ago I bought a great little paperback
about the lines there including the one thru Crawford Notch. This is
a spectacular bit of railroad construction with the track emerging thru
a rock cut at the top of its grade headed generally toward Mt. Washington.
This is easily seen from the highway. I understand that excursions have
resumed since I was there.

Cheer`S'
Rhett
Group: S-Trains Message: 20488 From: TCS Date: 7/31/2002
Subject: Re: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scales
So I screwed up, folks should know what I mean. I'm not perfect. We all
make mistakes.


TCS


----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 1:57 AM
Subject: Re: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scales


> I don't mean to be picky, but...
>
> CGW's logo is called the "Lucky Strike" logo, because it resembles the
logo
> used by Lucky Strike cigarettes.
>
> Craig
>
> ----- Original Message -----

> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 7:46 PM
> Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scales
>
>
> > 705 Far-Mar-Co PS2CD covered hopper. 7-67. 3 color graphics. 3 color
> > Far-Mar-Co logo.
> >
> > 706 KCS 18 rib PS covered hopper. Late 90's. 5 color graphics. Has
COOP
> > and Far-Mar-Co logos.
> >
> > 707 CGW 40' boxcar. 12-67. 4 color graphics. 36 inches CGW lucky
stripe
> > logo and 2 ft white letters SL.
> >
> > 708 IMRL 50' plug door boxcar. Late 90's. 4 color graphics. Red &
white
> > logo.
> >
> > Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale
48-.
> > N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50.
These
> > should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so.
> >
> > If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog
N,
> > HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $2.00 for p&h. You buy this catalog
once,
> > then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3
ring
> > binder.
> >
> > ---
> > ---
> > Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals
> > N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals
> > 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054
> > Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@...
> > Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/
> > Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/
> > NMRA Member #121756
> > Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20489 From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) Date: 7/31/2002
Subject: Finally posted, how to build closed frog switches
Yo:

I have generated a document (with help from members of the Bristol Club) on
how to build close frog switches and it is not posted on the Bristol club
web site. The first one I built took about 16 hours, since then I have
built over 50 and I have it down to 4 hours, including the power mechanism.
The great thing about close frog switches is that you can run both Hi-rail
and Scale thought them. That was one of my criteria's when I designed my
layout.

Hope it helps some of you.

Also, you may want to look at our club car. Anyone who lives or has visited
New Hampshire seen at least 2 things: highway signs with the old man of the
mountain printed on them and license plates with the slogan "Live Free or
Die". The North Stratford RR had about 100 box cars painted up with the old
man of the mountain logo and the slogan Live Free or Die. A must have for
all you New Englanders, although I may be bias being a club member.

Tommy


http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20490 From: Raynald Asselin Date: 7/31/2002
Subject: Re: AF NEW HAVEN 494-495 need information.....
Bonjour Pierre,

Ici dans la ville de Québec, il y a le « Le Bazar des Trains ». Il a des
pièces AF et des contacts pour faire de la restauration.

Adresse du Bazar des trains :
820, boul. Charest Ouest
Québec
Tél. : (418) 694-0382

Ray Asselin
S-Gauger (Moderne)


Pierre Paradis a écrit :
>
> Hello, I bought this pair alco diesel this week
> on an auction near to my home and the e-unit
> inside is broken( skates on it) the barrel is OK,
> does anyones can told me how mutch it cost to get
> those parts, and does the horn can working with a
> lionel transformer with horn button on it, thank
> you to answer, I start to collect American flyer
> train for about 5 months only. Peter..
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Lèche-vitrine ou lèche-écran ?
> magasinage.yahoo.ca
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 20491 From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) Date: 7/31/2002
Subject: Re: Finally posted, how to build closed frog switches
Opps<

It should have read "NOW posted", not "NOT posted". And they say one letter
won't make a difference.



-----Original Message-----
From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) [mailto:trobicha@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:19 AM
To: S Train (E-mail); S-scale (E-mail); Showcaseline (E-mail)
Subject: [S-Trains] Finally posted, how to build closed frog switches


Yo:

I have generated a document (with help from members of the Bristol Club) on
how to build close frog switches and it is not posted on the Bristol club
web site. The first one I built took about 16 hours, since then I have
built over 50 and I have it down to 4 hours, including the power mechanism.
The great thing about close frog switches is that you can run both Hi-rail
and Scale thought them. That was one of my criteria's when I designed my
layout.

Hope it helps some of you.

Also, you may want to look at our club car. Anyone who lives or has visited
New Hampshire seen at least 2 things: highway signs with the old man of the
mountain printed on them and license plates with the slogan "Live Free or
Die". The North Stratford RR had about 100 box cars painted up with the old
man of the mountain logo and the slogan Live Free or Die. A must have for
all you New Englanders, although I may be bias being a club member.

Tommy


http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 20492 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 7/31/2002
Subject: AF Semaphore Question
Hello guys: hope everyone is having a pleasant summer fishing or whatever.

I got a call from a reader who is having trouble using AF semaphores to
operate two trains at once on long loops. He says that the AF pressure
trips don't work well, and has tried all the right things as far as I can
tell, adjusting them, cleaning the contacts, not nailing down the track
near the trips, and placing cardboard under the discs.

Has anyone on this list gotten this system to work well? If so, could you
post descriptions, advice, and suggestions for him? He is not
computerized, so I will print out any helpful postings and mail them to
him. Are the AF electric track trips better? Has anyone used Erie Signal
or Dallee trips for this successfully? How about the MTH pressure trips
and ITAD's? What is the key to the correct placement of the trips? etc,
etc. I know that some of you guys have some good answers. Please pitch in
here.

I never liked this system too much, and so haven't much experience with it.

Incidentally, I am working on a system that will allow several trains to
occupy one loop without colliding. It is based on the old block system in
the Lionel Fawcett paperback. The key for this system is to divide the
loop into three blocks to run two trains. For three trains you would need
four blocks, for four you would need at least five blocks, etc. No
semaphores involved. I have gotten it to work well with two trains, but
need more accurate train detection devices to make more than two train
operation work. I hope to set it up on the floor, tinker with it until it
works, and then publish it in S Gaugian. It ought to be fun and useful too.
Any suggestions?

Thanks.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20493 From: Chuck Smith Date: 7/31/2002
Subject: Re: AF Semaphore Question
I once used AF electric track trips to operate a crossing gate and they
worked flawlessly. Held as long as the engine was in the block drawing
current thru the relay. My experience with pressure track trips comes
from when I was a boy, and that's a long time ago, but I recall they
were fussy to adjust. More recently I have tried out "the Detective"
and it works very well as a replacement for the AF electric type. Even
works with a lighted car. I bought the Detective from Joe Haenn at
joestrainrepair@....

jarcho@... wrote:
>
> Hello guys: hope everyone is having a pleasant summer fishing or whatever.
>
> I got a call from a reader who is having trouble using AF semaphores to
> operate two trains at once on long loops. He says that the AF pressure
> trips don't work well, and has tried all the right things as far as I can
> tell, adjusting them, cleaning the contacts, not nailing down the track
> near the trips, and placing cardboard under the discs.
>
> Has anyone on this list gotten this system to work well? If so, could you
> post descriptions, advice, and suggestions for him? He is not
> computerized, so I will print out any helpful postings and mail them to
> him. Are the AF electric track trips better? Has anyone used Erie Signal
> or Dallee trips for this successfully? How about the MTH pressure trips
> and ITAD's? What is the key to the correct placement of the trips? etc,
> etc. I know that some of you guys have some good answers. Please pitch in
> here.
>
> I never liked this system too much, and so haven't much experience with it.
>
> Incidentally, I am working on a system that will allow several trains to
> occupy one loop without colliding. It is based on the old block system in
> the Lionel Fawcett paperback. The key for this system is to divide the
> loop into three blocks to run two trains. For three trains you would need
> four blocks, for four you would need at least five blocks, etc. No
> semaphores involved. I have gotten it to work well with two trains, but
> need more accurate train detection devices to make more than two train
> operation work. I hope to set it up on the floor, tinker with it until it
> works, and then publish it in S Gaugian. It ought to be fun and useful too.
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 20494 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 8/1/2002
Subject: AF Semaphore question
Tom,

Could it be the wrong end of the system is being addressed? When I put
my 4 X 8 layout to power I had a dead section of track when I threw the
switch. I found the semaphore wasn't throwing far enough to close the
contacts. By cleaning the slug and core, it cleared up the problem.
Just a thought.

Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 20495 From: dwightlehnhoff Date: 8/1/2002
Subject: Semaphore
My experience is the same as Bill's. The preassure switch works, but
sometimes the semaphore doesn't respond because it didn't throw
either up or down enough or in some cases too much.
Dwight
Group: S-Trains Message: 20496 From: sjkafjrae276 Date: 8/1/2002
Subject: check this site out!…
Group: S-Trains Message: 20497 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 8/1/2002
Subject: Re: check this site out! - PORN SITE - DON"T GO THERE!
Don't attempt to go to this site. It is a porn site!

sjkafjrae276 wrote:

>http://wrlee.iwarp.com/index.html
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

--

eBay Id: myflyertrains

TCA# 99-50024

Personal Web Site - http://myflyertrains.com
Kris Model Trains Home - http://krismodeltrains.org
The All Aboard Sets Club - http://allaboardsetsclub.org
Group: S-Trains Message: 20498 From: Dennis Back Date: 8/1/2002
Subject: Re: check this site out! - PORN SITE - DON"T GO THERE!
--- Chuck Harrington <myflyertrains@...> wrote:
> Don't attempt to go to this site. It is a porn site!
>
> sjkafjrae276 wrote:
>
> >http://wrlee.iwarp.com/index.html

Hi Chuck and s-list,

Not only did they spam US, but they spammed another
Yahoo list I belong to (Ford Falcons). They used a
different (but similar) email address and it was a
different link to a different website (I didn't cleck
out either of them).

Thanks for the post, and hello to all on the list. I
am still alive, but not posting much. :-)

Dennis
Miami

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20499 From: theheadliner Date: 8/1/2002
Subject: Re: Auction Fraud OT
Your chance of getting taken on a $2,000 laptop is much greater than a AF
tanker car. There isn't enough profit in that type item to make the scams
profitable.

If we back off from bidding at auctions, because thi=ere may be one or two
bad eggs out there is the same thing as not having your car fixed because
there is a couple bad mechanics out there. Just use some brains when you are
doing either.

Jerry

===============
af21115 writes:

> Worth reading if you use any internet auctions....
>
> http://www.msnbc.com/news/784132.asp?cp1=1#BODY

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get your free email at http://quickmail.quickhosts.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20500 From: theheadliner Date: 8/1/2002
Subject: Re: Viruses
Believe me, you can get a virus as fast through Eudora as Outlook. Several
of my friends have. What I can't understand is why anyone in their right
mind out there is using an email address that takes a program like Outlook
or Eudora.

If you get a decent web based email address it will scan all your
attachments for you before you download. It will send a text message to your
cell phone to let you know you have a new email, who it is from and what it
is about. There are 1,000 reasons why a web based email address is better
than the one that came with your ISP signup.

Most important, however, is when you change ISPs, and believe me you will,
your email address is unchanged and you didn't lose any contacts. I have a
dozen, all for different purposes. There is nothing that comes to this
address that is not related to American Flyer trains.

jerry


Peter Ervin writes:

> I have been a subscriber to this list for 3 or 4 years and I have never
> gotten a virus from it or anything else. And I don't (I hate to admit)
> have anti-virus software installed on my computer at home. But I do use
> Eudora for my email instead of Outlook. I heard somewhere that most
> viruses are written for Outlook; I think that's why I have so few problems..........

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get your free email at http://quickmail.quickhosts.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20501 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/2/2002
Subject: Re: check this site out! - PORN SITE - DON"T GO THERE!
I went there . . . before I saw your warning. I was not injured.
The site is now a 404, dropped from the server for TOS violations.
Obviously, an amateur porn site! The owners probably had no clue that
anything they were doing violated any rules.

My question: how do these guys post on all the lists. Do they sit there all
day joining every individual Yahoo group and then posting their little
message? Isn't there a delay from when you register until you can post?
What anti-spamming protection does Yahoo have?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20502 From: af21115 Date: 8/2/2002
Subject: Re: Auction Fraud OT
Not really. The risks are acutally pretty much the same. A lot of
smaller items would go un-noticed longer than a few large items. Cell
phones were one of the biggest rip off items noted in the article.
There relatively small and inexpensive and in line with a nice S
gauge tank car. The comparison to an auto repair shop is not relative
nor representative. You canot see the person selling face to face in
the auction, but you can see the service advisor and what the shop
looks like, and even the area, and the workers. The service shop is
very easy to bring a law suit against, you have a place to go, and a
name to work with, a liscenced entity. You do not have any of that on
the net as its very "anonymous". The anonymous nature of the internet
actually breeds more of the deception than the regular retail world.
I agree 100% with the using your head theory, and try my best to
practice same. Unfortnately, there are far too many who do not
subscribe to the theory or have a grasp if it, this is just fodder
for the crooks.


--- In S-Trains@y..., "theheadliner" <theheadliner@q...> wrote:
> Your chance of getting taken on a $2,000 laptop is much greater
than a AF
> tanker car. There isn't enough profit in that type item to make the
scams
> profitable.
>
> If we back off from bidding at auctions, because thi=ere may be one
or two
> bad eggs out there is the same thing as not having your car fixed
because
> there is a couple bad mechanics out there. Just use some brains
when you are
> doing either.
>
> Jerry
>
> ===============
> af21115 writes:
>
> > Worth reading if you use any internet auctions....
> >
> > http://www.msnbc.com/news/784132.asp?cp1=1#BODY
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> Get your free email at http://quickmail.quickhosts.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20503 From: David Dewey Date: 8/2/2002
Subject: Yahoo, anit-spamming filters??? An oxymoron!
Chris,
Had to pick myself up off the floor, surely you jest! (Sorry, didn't
mean to call you Shirley)
When 90% of my received Kletz virus messages originate with s-trains owner
tags???
They should have them, and they should fix the chat room window so it is
full-size like the old Club chat window was, but it ain't happenin.'
Don't hold your breath, blue doesn't go with your ensemble!
Back to trains! Gotta keep on track here! :-)
S'
David
Group: S-Trains Message: 20504 From: Clay Date: 8/2/2002
Subject: TCA 2006 S car ideas
Hello everyone:

I am in charge of the Train Collector's Association convention cars for 2006
(SAN ANTONIO!), and of course, we will offer an S gauge car.

I would like to solicit ideas from you all--what would you like to see?
What types of rolling stock? What road names? Keep in mind that the car
has to be around 40-60 bucks.

Please feel free to email me personally off-line to keep list clutter down.
However, if your suggestion is part of a discussion here, or if you think
the suggestions would be of interest to all, then post to the list.

Thanks very much,

Clay Kinsner
TCA Lone Star Division
Central Texas Chapter president

clayk@...
Lone Star Trains and Collectibles
4161 Naco-Perrin Blvd.
San Antonio, TX 78217
210-655-4665
Group: S-Trains Message: 20505 From: Mark Preman Date: 8/2/2002
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
The August list is up. Need some $10 cars? They're in
there but you have to find them. Hint: not Kitbasher's
Korner. Mark
http://www.americanflyertrains.com

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20506 From: pieter_roos Date: 8/2/2002
Subject: Re: check this site out! - PORN SITE - DON"T GO THERE!
Well, in Yahoo's defense on this one, how would any automatic system
tell the difference between this post and any number of others where
someone says "Check this out" or "Here's another one" with a link to
some wierd Ebay auction? The list owner can set the list so new people
are moderated until they post something reasonably on-topic. That
eliminates 99% of the idiots like this one, but it's alot of work for
the moderator who has to review their first few messages. I'm sure it
ticks off a few legitimate newcomers as well, until they understand
why the limitation.

Pieter

--- In S-Trains@y..., Chris Zizzo <busyboy@o...> wrote:
> Isn't there a delay from when you register until you can
post?
> What anti-spamming protection does Yahoo have?
>
> Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20507 From: trllentes776 Date: 8/2/2002
Subject: just found new website…
Group: S-Trains Message: 20508 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/2/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, August 4, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20509 From: Dayna Warner Date: 8/2/2002
Subject: looking for decals
Can anyone tell me if there are any New Haven decals out there for an S
scale FM Trainmaster? If so could you direct me to where they might be
found?
Thanks
Dayna Warner CEO
Trainstuff LLC
www.trainstuffllc.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20510 From: Tim Brown Date: 8/3/2002
Subject: NASG Convention
Hi all,

I returned home early from the convention.

Here are some of my observations:

1). The layout tours were a treat. I thought the Lydecker Flyer layout was exceptionally and tastefully done. The McCarty collection was priceless. Excellent examples of bench-work on some other layouts-in-progress.

2). Lots of new scale and high-rail stuff to see - especially from S-Helper and American Models.

3.) Good clinic on getting started with DCC for about $140.

4). Didn't see any Flyer parts dealers with parts (Doug Peck from Portlines was there, but with no parts.). A couple vendors had some incidental parts.

5.) Looks like Timko stocks an improved can motor (okay - that's parts). It sports a flywheel and the manufacturer reduced the diameter of the worm shaft so the chassis bushing doesn't have to be removed.

6). People were friendly and enthusiastic. Lots of fun sharing ideas.

I'll be interested to read what some other attendees experienced.

Regards,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20511 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 8/3/2002
Subject: Re: NASG Convention
Hi Tim,
I am glad to see the report on Timko Motors. I have remotored all my engines
with the new flywheel version. Except for my Franklin engine. frank made a
special non-flywheel motor for it. The motors are exceptionally good runners.
I have been running one for may June and July at the museum in Middletown
Ohio. it runs every day for 4 hours except on Mondays. The only maintenance
has been to clean the wheels.
I am also going to switch over to DCC within the next year. Frank and I have
become very good friends. I have also made friends with a gentleman that
sells DCC by Lenz. Incredible stuff for 150.00 dollars. I wish I could have
made the convention, but Delphi has us working 7 days a week before they lay
us off.
If you haven't tried a Timko motor yet, they are well worth the price of
29.95 or 4 for 100.00 dollars. I believe Frank still has them priced this
way. I know I'll never go back to the old motors.
Chris Burger, the Trainnut
Group: S-Trains Message: 20512 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 8/3/2002
Subject: Dover, NJ Show
Is anyone on the list going to go to the train show at Dover, NJ tomorrow?
I plan to be there.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20513 From: Tim Brown Date: 8/3/2002
Subject: Many thanks
Hi,

Many thanks to the people who made all facets of this year's NASG convention a success. Also, thanks to those who graciously opened up their houses and displayed their layouts and collections for bus loads of enthusiasts. The S Gaugers of the Cleveland area are cool.

Regards,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20514 From: Mike Vana Date: 8/3/2002
Subject: NH Trainmaster Decals
Dayna Warner wrote:

Can anyone tell me if there are any New Haven decals out there for an S
scale FM Trainmaster? If so could you direct me to where they might be
found?

New Haven never had Trainmasters. The closest they came were two
different body styles of smaller 4 axle H16-44's, numbers 590-599
and 1600-1614. If you still want to make an NH Trainmaster, the 1600's
looked closer to Trainmasters and were painted black with an orange
cab, although at least 1609 was repainted all black with orange hoods.
For the others, you need decals with an orange "N" and white "H" (for
the large NH on the side) plus a small "New Haven" that fits across the
cab just under the cab window, and numbers about twice as large under
that.

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20515 From: Alex Sibbald Date: 8/3/2002
Subject: rocket launcher
Hi guys,
I have a 25046 rocket launcher and it has a loose wire under the car.
Does anyone have a wiring diagram or experience with this model? Any
info would be appreciated.
Alex(innotron)
Group: S-Trains Message: 20516 From: fjg1870 Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: Re: NH Trainmaster Decals
--- In S-Trains@y..., Mike Vana <amflyer@r...> wrote:
Dayna Warner wrote:

Can anyone tell me if there are any New Haven decals out there for an
S scale FM Trainmaster? If so could you direct me to where they might
be found? ...

Dayna,

While I'm not aware of any NH decals, AM has just released their new
Trainmaster. One of the paint schemes offered is the Trainmaster
Demonstrator in red, yellow and black. This unit could be used on any
railroad.

Walt Danylak
Group: S-Trains Message: 20517 From: notcoldenough Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: Steamer stalling on switch frogs
I need your help.

My 312 K5 steamer stalls when it runs over the plastic frog on
switches. The wheels and track have been cleaned with a dremel tool
& brite boy respectively. The tender is a cast metal unit with link
trucks. By using a voltmeter, I have narrowed the problem down to the
front truck brass wheels - there is poor contact between the wheels &
track. When the engine is stalled on the frog, the other pickup
wheel is not resting on the rail solidly enough to get electrical
contact. Pushing its axle down with a screwdriver re-establishes
contact and the engine moves.

I tried twisting the truck to change the alingment, but have had no
luck. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 20518 From: Chuck Smith Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: Re: Steamer stalling on switch frogs
There was an article in a magazine some time back about replacing the
top of the plastic frog with a metal plate so contact was improved. The
plate was triangular in shape and had a pin soldered to it. The plastic
top was filed away to accommodate the thickness of the metal plate and a
hole drilled thru to accommodate the pin. The pin was directly wired to
the frog under the switch.

Does anyone know where the article was- Dispatch or S Gaugian and what
issue?

notcoldenough wrote:
>
> I need your help.
>
> My 312 K5 steamer stalls when it runs over the plastic frog on
> switches. The wheels and track have been cleaned with a dremel tool
> & brite boy respectively. The tender is a cast metal unit with link
> trucks. By using a voltmeter, I have narrowed the problem down to the
> front truck brass wheels - there is poor contact between the wheels &
> track. When the engine is stalled on the frog, the other pickup
> wheel is not resting on the rail solidly enough to get electrical
> contact. Pushing its axle down with a screwdriver re-establishes
> contact and the engine moves.
>
> I tried twisting the truck to change the alingment, but have had no
> luck. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> John Gasal
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 20519 From: Tim Brown Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: Re: Steamer stalling on switch frogs
Hi,

You might also try to remove the pick-up wheels and bend the copper strips on the truck assembly so there is more spring to them, helping to force the wheels down to the track by applying more pressure on the axels once the wheels are reinstalled. I had the same problem with a die cast 200 Atlantic tender and solved the problem that way.

Regards,
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: notcoldenough
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 9:22 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Steamer stalling on switch frogs


I need your help.

My 312 K5 steamer stalls when it runs over the plastic frog on
switches. The wheels and track have been cleaned with a dremel tool
& brite boy respectively. The tender is a cast metal unit with link
trucks. By using a voltmeter, I have narrowed the problem down to the
front truck brass wheels - there is poor contact between the wheels &
track. When the engine is stalled on the frog, the other pickup
wheel is not resting on the rail solidly enough to get electrical
contact. Pushing its axle down with a screwdriver re-establishes
contact and the engine moves.

I tried twisting the truck to change the alingment, but have had no
luck. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

John Gasal


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20520 From: notcoldenough Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: Re: Steamer stalling on switch frogs
Tim,

I think you are right about the copper strip. As a test, I put small
pieces of foam under each side of the strip to increase the downward
pressure on the axle. It definitely helped. The copper strip on the
front truck looks like it has been bent several times and appears to
be fatiqued and lost some of its spring.

John



--- In S-Trains@y..., "Tim Brown" <Timboy@a...> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> You might also try to remove the pick-up wheels and bend the copper
strips on the truck assembly so there is more spring to them, helping
to force the wheels down to the track by applying more pressure on
the axels once the wheels are reinstalled. I had the same problem
with a die cast 200 Atlantic tender and solved the problem that way.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: notcoldenough
> To: S-Trains@y...
> Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 9:22 AM
> Subject: [S-Trains] Steamer stalling on switch frogs
>
>
> I need your help.
>
> My 312 K5 steamer stalls when it runs over the plastic frog on
> switches. The wheels and track have been cleaned with a dremel
tool
> & brite boy respectively. The tender is a cast metal unit with
link
> trucks. By using a voltmeter, I have narrowed the problem down to
the
> front truck brass wheels - there is poor contact between the
wheels &
> track. When the engine is stalled on the frog, the other pickup
> wheel is not resting on the rail solidly enough to get electrical
> contact. Pushing its axle down with a screwdriver re-establishes
> contact and the engine moves.
>
> I tried twisting the truck to change the alingment, but have had
no
> luck. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> John Gasal
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-
unsubscribe@Y...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20521 From: Pierre Paradis Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: About the 494 & 495 AF new haven....
I like to thanks everybody to help me in my
project to repaird this beautiful engine, before
I replace those 2 little board with finger
contact, I will have to check if the e-unit work,
all wire now was connect out of it and run
forward only, I will connect some wire to try it
if the drum turn, so I let you know about it,
maby next week, Pierre.

__________________________________________________________
Lèche-vitrine ou lèche-écran ?
magasinage.yahoo.ca
Group: S-Trains Message: 20522 From: David Dewey Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: Re: Steamer stalling on switch frogs
John,
This is a problem that vexes us all at various times. Some hints
1) This is the tough one, everything else listed below has been done, but
still it stalls. The insulating shouldered washer on the pivot rivet is
worn/broken allowing the truck to pivot more than it should. The only
operating symptom of this problem is stalling on switches! Truck should
pivot, but not "swivel" much.
2) Truck bent, put pressure on both axles, like the truck was on the track
and tweak truck so both axles are parallel to each other. Axles should also
be equal distance from tender frame, so couplers align right, etc. Axles can
be parallel to each other, but if not equally distant from tender frame, one
set will not contact the track also leading to stalling on switches, etc.
3) Contact wiper not pressing against the axle. You can check that by
pressing on the axle, it should spring back. To fix, remove axle, straighten
contact wiper if it has been bent before ( contact wipers usually have a
little crown in them, helps keep them straight) and bend up to provide
spring tension against axle. Replace axle, lube with Ciag labs magic stuff,
or Whals oil if you don't have the other stuff. Don't forget to oil the axle
ends too.
4) Bad solder joint on rivet, or broken wires inside the insulation. Check
and repair!
There's probably something else I didn't think of, like a broken wire inside
the insulation by the cab plug!
Let us know the "fix"!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20523 From: Pierre Paradis Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: 494 & 495 AF new haven news about it need help now...
Hello again, I stay home (lucky guy? maby, I take
a chance to resolve the problem and fix it)today
to work on this engine, I found the electromagnet
working and drum is OK, I clean it at the same
time, I found maby the big problem on it, 2
finger was bent and doesn't touch the barrel, I
fix it and all finger is nice no hole on it
should work, I will need the diagram to connect
all wire correctly, when I bought it last week,
inside I found all wire was bypass the e-unit, so
I really don't know how to reconnect it, any help
will be very appreciate, if you can sent me
picture of the diagram or to sent me to a web
page, on the net it show it, thank you very
mutch, Pierre...parapio@...

__________________________________________________________
Lèche-vitrine ou lèche-écran ?
magasinage.yahoo.ca
Group: S-Trains Message: 20525 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, August 4, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20526 From: rodgers_carl Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: Re: AF Semaphore Question
Didn't somebody already invent that wheel?

--- In S-Trains@y..., jarcho@r... wrote:
> Hello guys: hope everyone is having a pleasant summer fishing or
whatever.
>
> I got a call from a reader who is having trouble using AF
semaphores to
> operate two trains at once on long loops. He says that the AF
pressure
> trips don't work well, and has tried all the right things as far as
I can
> tell, adjusting them, cleaning the contacts, not nailing down the
track
> near the trips, and placing cardboard under the discs.
>
> Has anyone on this list gotten this system to work well? If so,
could you
> post descriptions, advice, and suggestions for him? He is not
> computerized, so I will print out any helpful postings and mail
them to
> him. Are the AF electric track trips better? Has anyone used Erie
Signal
> or Dallee trips for this successfully? How about the MTH pressure
trips
> and ITAD's? What is the key to the correct placement of the
trips? etc,
> etc. I know that some of you guys have some good answers. Please
pitch in
> here.
>
> I never liked this system too much, and so haven't much experience
with it.
>
> Incidentally, I am working on a system that will allow several
trains to
> occupy one loop without colliding. It is based on the old block
system in
> the Lionel Fawcett paperback. The key for this system is to divide
the
> loop into three blocks to run two trains. For three trains you
would need
> four blocks, for four you would need at least five blocks, etc. No
> semaphores involved. I have gotten it to work well with two
trains, but
> need more accurate train detection devices to make more than two
train
> operation work. I hope to set it up on the floor, tinker with it
until it
> works, and then publish it in S Gaugian. It ought to be fun and
useful too.
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20527 From: Doug Peck Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: Re: 494-495 wiring
<<<I will need the diagram to connect
all wire correctly,>>>

Pierre--
You will find wiring diagrams on our website, under "CLINICS".
Also, any parts you may need to repair.

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supplies
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
New Shop Hours - Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays: 2-5 PM (EST), and 7-9 PM.
Saturdays: 2-5 PM.
Closed Sundays, Mondays, and Fridays.
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-Free; orders only, please)
<http://www.portlines.com/>
doug@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20528 From: John Foley Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: American Model Builders
Hi Folks

American Model Builders will do one of their HO kits in
S scale if they can get at least fifty orders. The kit is A. C. Brown
Manufacturing Company. You can see a photo at
http://www.laserkit.com/laserkit.htm
The kit is 100% laser-cut wood with pre-cut window
and door openings. It also includes covered loading dock
outside staircases, laser cut water tank, skylights, and many other
details. The measurements are 12" long X 6.25"deep X 5.25" high.
The price would be around $150.00. Again only fifty orders needed,
Make that forty five.
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 20529 From: afstrains@aol.com Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: Re: Congratulations to Paul York
Everyone on this list should be aware that our own Paul York won the
illustrious Bernie Saunders (please correct me if I have the name wrong)
award at the NASG convention for doing the most to promote S gauge. Paul
attended the NASG convention and was there to receive the award personally
which made it all the more wonderful. He won the award for the train digest
and web site work he has created, managed and hosted for several years now.
Please give Paul his deserved congratulations and applause. Robin Vanacore


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20530 From: David Dewey Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: Congratulations to Paul York for winning the Bernie Thomas Award!
Very Well deserved!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20531 From: TCS Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S and O scale
709 GCCX 2 bay cement hopper. 7-02

710 NATX 50' tank car. 11-74

711 TLCX PS 16 rib covered hopper. 8-71. This car is one of a kind paint
scheme. You really have to go to my web page to see what the car looks
like. This set has a bunch of grain elevators name painted all over the
car, in all kinds of directions. This set retails for $6.25 N & HO
scale, $12.50 S & O scale.

712 CGW 40' boxcar. 8-47.

713 CSYX 3 bay covered hopper. Late 90's.

Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-.
N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These
should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so.

If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N,
HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $2.00 for p&h. You buy this catalog once,
then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring
binder.

---
---
Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals
N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals
26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054
Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@...
Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/
Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/
NMRA Member #121756
Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20532 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 8/4/2002
Subject: AF Semaphore Question
Carl: I don't understand exactly what you mean. I presume you are trying
to be either sarcastic or funny. Either way, you have failed. What is
needed here is helpfulness, not rudeness. I need some help in order to
answer a question from a reader, and fortunately, several people on this
list have provided it.

Yes, the AF semaphore block system was invented a long time ago. it
doesn't work that well, unfortunately, and I am trying to help a fellow to
get his to work a little better.

The Lionel block system is even older than the AF semaphore block system.
It originally used modified door bells as relays! It is a fairly tricky
piece of work to adapt a three rail block system to two rail track because
train detection is much simpler with three rail track. As you may
remember, Lionel track has three rails, while AF has only two. I have
never seen this adaptation to two rail track in print anywhere, and hope to
eventually modernize and perfect it and publish it so that my friends and I
can get more operating pleasure from our AF trains.

I find it helpful to mention my current projects on this list because there
are a lot of talented people on it who often have good helpful ideas to
add.

This kind of positive activity tends to be more rewarding than cheap
sarcasm. Perhaps you ought to try it some time.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20533 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Re: Back and new link
We arrived back from Cleveland yesterday evening. It was really
great to see our old friends and meet so many of our customers. If you
have never been to an NASG convention you really should go. Next year's
is by Milwaukee and the historic circus train will be in town. I know
the Badger club will do a great job!
Congrats to Paul York on winning the Bernie Thomas award. I think
that his selection was a great choice. Congrats are also in order to
folks of Pennsy Heritage Models. Wow Tom, two surprises in one
convention.
I found a new link regarding common railroad dimensions. I think
you will enjoy it at:
http://www.urbaneagle.com/data/index.html

Don T.

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20534 From: Doug Peck Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Re: NASG awards?
I had to leave Cleveland a day early, due to a wedding back home.
Can someone fill us in on the NASG award winners at this year's banquet?????
The only thing I've heard is that Paul Yorke won the Bernie Thomas Award.
Congratulations, Paul !

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours - Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays: 2-5 PM (EST), and 7-9 PM.
Saturdays: 2-5 PM.
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please.)
Website: www.portlines.com
E-mail: doug@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20535 From: John Foley Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Fwd: American Model Builders
>Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 20:43:53 -0400
>To: "S-Scale@egroups" <S-Scale@egroups.com>, "s-trains@egroups"
><s-trains@egroups.com>
>From: John Foley <foley164@...>
>Subject: American Model Builders
Hi Folks
The measurements I sent out yesterday are for the HO model.
The S scale one if produced will be larger.
John




>Hi Folks
>
> American Model Builders will do one of their HO kits in
>S scale if they can get at least fifty orders. The kit is A. C. Brown
>Manufacturing Company. You can see a photo at
>http://www.laserkit.com/laserkit.htm
>The kit is 100% laser-cut wood with pre-cut window
>and door openings. It also includes covered loading dock
>outside staircases, laser cut water tank, skylights, and many other
>details. The measurements are 12" long X 6.25"deep X 5.25" high.
>The price would be around $150.00. Again only fifty orders needed,
>Make that forty five.
>John
Group: S-Trains Message: 20536 From: rodgers_carl Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Re: AF Semaphore Question
I was refering to your project of inventing a system of running 2 or
more trains on the same loop. That system or device is already
available from RFG, it costs $35 and works exactly as you hope your
new invention will work.

Why I said what I said like I said it, is, many of the posts on this
list talk about finding new ways of not supporting the the people who
are making products to support YOU! Then people complain about what
is not available for "S", DA.

Check out the RFG webpage at www.rfgco.com, and the electronic
devices, you and others will save a lot of time and money on a wheel
that someone else already invented.


--- In S-Trains@y..., jarcho@r... wrote:
> Carl: I don't understand exactly what you mean. I presume you are
trying
> to be either sarcastic or funny. Either way, you have failed.
What is
> needed here is helpfulness, not rudeness. I need some help in
order to
> answer a question from a reader, and fortunately, several people on
this
> list have provided it.
>
> Yes, the AF semaphore block system was invented a long time ago. it
> doesn't work that well, unfortunately, and I am trying to help a
fellow to
> get his to work a little better.
>
> The Lionel block system is even older than the AF semaphore block
system.
> It originally used modified door bells as relays! It is a fairly
tricky
> piece of work to adapt a three rail block system to two rail track
because
> train detection is much simpler with three rail track. As you may
> remember, Lionel track has three rails, while AF has only two. I
have
> never seen this adaptation to two rail track in print anywhere, and
hope to
> eventually modernize and perfect it and publish it so that my
friends and I
> can get more operating pleasure from our AF trains.
>
> I find it helpful to mention my current projects on this list
because there
> are a lot of talented people on it who often have good helpful
ideas to
> add.
>
> This kind of positive activity tends to be more rewarding than cheap
> sarcasm. Perhaps you ought to try it some time.
>
> Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20537 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: AF Semaphore Question
I am not trying to invent anything, just adapt a three rail system that
probably dates from the 1930's to modern 2 rail AC use.

Have seen the system you mention in operation. There are at least two
manufacturers, Dallee and Erie Signal, who make a similar product. Maybe
more. And then, plans for this type of device have probably been published
in books and magazines, for those who like to roll their own. It's
basically a train detection circuit and a relay.

The older system is more reliable, more complicated, more flexible, and
more fun than a simple device.

I am not interested in "supporting" the RFG Co.


Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20538 From: Roger Delthony Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Re: Steamer Stalling on Switch Frogs
The article is "You can improve AF TURNOUT performance and appearance"
by Brooks Stover in the Sep/Oct issue of S-Gaugian.

Roger Delthony
Group: S-Trains Message: 20539 From: rkuepper Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Paul Yorke award
Congratulations, Paul. Well-deserved!!

Dick


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20540 From: Tom Pennington Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Re: Paul Yorke award
Well deserved Paul, your web site enabled me to get back into S after 25
years. Would still be
looking for info on many things with out it. Thanks for your efforts, nice
to see someone get an
award for really doing something fantastic!

Tom

At 06:42 PM 8/5/02 -0400, rkuepper wrote:
>Congratulations, Paul. Well-deserved!!
>
>Dick
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
>s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 20541 From: trzp1800 Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Re: AF Semaphore Question
Hello:
I don't want to get into the middle of an old discussion between
individuals, but i have a current need for an automatic block system.
We want to run two trains on a single loop of track and need a way to
slow down or stop the faster train before it catches up to the slower
one. Sounds like a block system would work. To date we've looked at
the RFG unit, it would need a "lockout eliminator" to avoid e-unit
problems. A friend tells me i just need to bridge the isolator with a
resistor and that will "bleed" the current i need into the block and
keep the e-unit engaged. Maybe.
Choice two is an ir detector, w/ "lockout" and set the timer long
enough to let the other train get ahead. Cost is a little less than
the RFG solution and it doesn't rely on current flowing, however, if
the train parks in the block past the timer delay,,,,WHAM!
Three is a relay and a simple current detector, like the "detective"
mentioned in an earlier post. Cost is a little less but the system is
more "delicate". And last on my list of known solutions is the ol'
reed switch method. But magnets on the bottom of cars sounds a little
less bullet proof than i need for this application.
My question, you knew there had to be one in here somewhere right?
What's the most "bullet proof" solution for a reasonable cost?

I know you guys have opinions and vast amounts of experience on this.
Help!
Ted
P.S. I have a neat circuit from "Model Railroad Electronics 3" by
Rutger Friberg. It purports to slow a train down in one block and
then stop it in the next. Then it slowly starts it up again when the
third block is cleared. Only problem is it appears to convert the A/C
supply to DC and never goes back to A/C. Close.......

Thanks again.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20542 From: gino restivo Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: THANKS , Paul York
you deserve much more , and I thank you for the opportunity you
have given me and i'm sure many other's to learn more about our
favorite trains and to find help in keeping them going for many
more years to come .

Thank You

Gino Restivo


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20543 From: notcoldenough Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Re: Steamer stalling on switch frogs
"notcoldenough" wrote: My 312 K5 steamer stalls when it runs over
the plastic frog on switches.


Your helpful tips cured my stalling engine. The "killer" fix was to
remove the tender wheels and bend the copper pickup strips to
increase downward pressure on the axles.

The steamer now runs through the switches at slow speed without
stalling.

Thanks

John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 20544 From: lawrence Jackman Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Back and new link
This web site is a nice place and looks good.
But I have one comment. The information on the workings os the Alco
1000 hp diesel is based on calculations and not real life. In the
Emporia yard we would pull 100+ car cuts out of the east bond yard which
set on a slight grade to the west. great little engines.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
.
> I found a new link regarding common railroad dimensions. I think
> you will enjoy it at:
> http://www.urbaneagle.com/data/index.html
>
> Don T.
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20545 From: Paul Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Couple things
1) Thanks for all the kind words, I could not do this without all the
help and support you guys give me. Winning the award was a TOTAL
surprise, and a very great honor.
2) I am forced to change the lists to restricted mode. this means that
any new members will need me (or one of my admin helpers) approval to
join the list.
If you change your address and try to join the list, and I don't
recognize your name, you will get a note back from me when you try to
join. I expect you to say something like "I run a code ### scale
layout" or "I collect Flyer and Erector" that way I know you are someone
that belongs on the list. I suspect anyone else woud just ignore my
request for info and go away.

If you see something on the list, like a link to porn, just send me a
note and I will ban that person. When they try to rejoin with a new ID,
they will not get in so easy.

3) I have over 300 pictures from my trip. About 90 from the Museum in
Cincy, and the rest from the convention. I hope to start posting Tuesday
night.

Thanks again for being such a great group.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20546 From: Roger Delthony Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Re: Steamer Stalling on Switch Frogs
I left a rather significant part of the information out of my previous
note. Brooks Stover's article on switch frog modification appeared in
the Sep/Oct 1992 S-Gaugian.

My appologies.

Roger Delthony



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20547 From: mvandiver2@aol.com Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: (no subject)
I would also like to add my congrats to Paul Yorke. As one who found his web
page and the chat group to be of great help as I was getting back into this
hobby, Paul deserves much of the credit. He is such a generous man and has
done so much to help all of us enjoy our trains. Thanks, Paul. Mike
Vandiver


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20548 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 8/5/2002
Subject: Congratulations
Although Paul Yorke has received many congratulations and thanks
already, I just wanted to add mine to the long and growing list.

Congratulations on receiving the Bernie Thomas Award.

Also, thanks for all the invaluable information and help with the web
site, the chat group, the questions answered, the patience, the
volunteered time, and all the requirements necessary for making a truly
meaningful contribution and a difference in S gauge.
Regards,
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)
Group: S-Trains Message: 20549 From: knockbill Date: 8/6/2002
Subject: Paul's award
Paul,
Congratulations for a well deserved acknowledgement of your ongoing
efforts in "S" trains......
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 20550 From: joshseltzer Date: 8/6/2002
Subject: NASG 2002 Convention: Thanks to all who came
I would like to thank all who attended the NASG 2002 convention, for
helping to make it the great event that it was. I was to happy to
many old friends and make some new ones. My only great regret it
that I just did not have the time to spend with many of you as I was
a little busy. Sorry for the few mixups and schedule typos. Sorry
we had to cancel a few clinics when the volunteer speakers did not
show. A special thanks to the group who attended my `special clinic'
on Wednesday, "getting your layout ready for open house".. Thanks to
all of you manufactures and dealers for support and attendance.
Thanks to my crew for all the help. Thanks to my wife Barb for not
only putting up with all this for the last 2 years but actually being
the convention registrar.

Okay, time to start working on the S Spree next year May 15-18 2003
(weekend AFTER Mothers Day).

Josh Seltzer
Group: S-Trains Message: 20551 From: Paul Date: 8/6/2002
Subject: convention photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 20552 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 8/7/2002
Subject: Paul's Award
Paul,

Congratulation for your well deserving award this past week. You have
been instrumental in getting a lot of us back into American Flyer after
many years of trains sitting in boxes. Thanks for all you do for us.

Mike Leahy
Group: S-Trains Message: 20553 From: Gill W. Lott Date: 8/7/2002
Subject: Re: convention photos
Even if I had not known anything about Paul Yorke before this E-Mail; it is enough to say
that he has gone above and beyond the call of duty to give to us/me the opportunity to see
these convention pictures less than a week after the event!!!!

Thank you on the service that you provide to new folks like me.

Congratulations on the award!!!! It seems that not only is it deserved, but it is still
being earned!


>>> Paul <yorke@...> 8/6/02 9:43:50 PM >>>
I am uploading these photos as I send this note, so if you are fast you
might click on them before they get uploaded.
I am just uploading pictures (no text), if you have questions, I suggest
you direct them to the list. include a link to the picture you have the
question about.

http://www.homestead.com/PYorke/files/nasg2002/bts/Thumbnails.html
http://www.homestead.com/PYorke/files/nasg2002/con1/Thumbnails.html
http://www.homestead.com/PYorke/files/nasg2002/con3/Thumbnails.html
http://www.homestead.com/PYorke/files/nasg2002/contest/Thumbnails.html
http://www.homestead.com/PYorke/files/nasg2002/layout1/Thumbnails.html
http://www.homestead.com/PYorke/files/nasg2002/layout2/Thumbnails.html
http://www.homestead.com/PYorke/files/nasg2002/layout3a/Thumbnails.html
http://www.homestead.com/PYorke/files/nasg2002/layout3b/Thumbnails.html
http://www.homestead.com/PYorke/files/nasg2002/trading_floor/Thumbnails.html

If you want a higher res version of any of these photos, contact me 'off
list'.


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 20554 From: Clifford Manning Date: 8/7/2002
Subject: American Flyer wheels
Have the American Flyer wheels always created so much drag or
resistance? Or, is it a product of time?

I am amazed at the lack of resistance with the American Models and
S-Helper cars.

Several in the group have talked about the drag created also in the worn

diesel engines. Is there a fix?

Any feed back would be appreciated.

Clifford Manning
Topeka
Group: S-Trains Message: 20555 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/7/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer wheels
Dear Clifford,
This is one of the more frustrating aspect of Lionel's involvement with American
Flyer. It has been long known in the prototype and later with modelers that the
incorporation of a slight angle on the tread (RP-25 = 3 degree) allows the wheels to
roll with less rolling resistance. This also prevents the wheelset from hunting for
the center as happens with a flat tread wheel. I believe that a crown (rounding) of
the rail head also decreases the rolling resistance of the wheel. Likewise, a
fillet (RP-25 - r=0.014" for code 110 wheels and r=0.025" for AF comp code 175
wheels) between the flange and the tread, helps to prevent the flange from rubbing
the side of the rail head on curves as centrifugal force moves the wheelset towards
the outside curved rail. These are two features incorporated in the NMRA RP-25 wheel
contour. Similar numbers seemed to be used in Lionel's current 0-27 wheelsets. The
same is not true with the American Flyer wheels that still use the same 1946 flat
tread with no fillet between the flange and tread. Another opportunity to improve
AF that has been overlooked by the Lionel's engineering staff.
Don

Clifford Manning wrote:

> Have the American Flyer wheels always created so much drag or
> resistance? Or, is it a product of time?
>
> I am amazed at the lack of resistance with the American Models and
> S-Helper cars.
>
> Several in the group have talked about the drag created also in the worn
>
> diesel engines. Is there a fix?
>
> Any feed back would be appreciated.
>
> Clifford Manning
> Topeka
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20556 From: crustyfour Date: 8/8/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer wheels
Can AM or SHS wheel sets be swapped onto American Flyer rolling stock
to reduce resistance? Or do the side frames need to be designed to
match the pointed axles?

Steve Blancard

--- In S-Trains@y..., Clifford Manning <clifma19@m...> wrote:
> Have the American Flyer wheels always created so much drag or
> resistance? Or, is it a product of time?
>
> I am amazed at the lack of resistance with the American Models and
> S-Helper cars.
>
> Several in the group have talked about the drag created also in the
worn
>
> diesel engines. Is there a fix?
>
> Any feed back would be appreciated.
>
> Clifford Manning
> Topeka
Group: S-Trains Message: 20557 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/8/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer wheels
Dear Steve,
We have a proposal now with our builder for replacement wheels for both the AF
sheet metal as well as the sintered iron trucks in both insulated and non insulated
(for illumination and action cars) wheel sets.
Don


crustyfour wrote:

> Can AM or SHS wheel sets be swapped onto American Flyer rolling stock
> to reduce resistance? Or do the side frames need to be designed to
> match the pointed axles?
>
> Steve Blancard

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20558 From: bassflyer Date: 8/9/2002
Subject: Mr. Yorke's major award....
On behalf of all the little people,....Oops! That's Paul's
line!! Really,...CONGRATS Paul!! You make us (wipes tear from eye),
so proud!!
All seriousness aside,..I mean that from the heart of my bottom!!

Where is everyone? Not many posts lately,...I have taken a
little break from trains,...diving into my music lately, praticing
the ol' bass,...trying to write some songs, etc.etc.etc.....whatever
it takes to get more train money!! Write a train song! There I go!
Maybe I'll make a few laps with the ol' 282 this evening! I'm
still out here lurking and will check in on the ol' train site.


Rick "Thump-Thump--Toot-Toot" Evans.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20559 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/9/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, August 11, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20560 From: louis glumac Date: 8/9/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Chat
hi,,,does anyone have a boiler fron for 342ac?? thanks
----- Original Message -----
From: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 8:02 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Reminder - Sunday Chat


>
> We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.
>
> Sunday Chat
>
> Date: Sunday, August 11, 2002
> Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)
>
> Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
>
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20561 From: robert allen conner Date: 8/9/2002
Subject: PIKEMASTER CROSSOVER PANEL
DOES ANYONE HAVE A COUPLE OF CROSSOVER PANELS.....HAVE 4 EXTRA
CURVE...ACCESSORIES WANTED TOO...BOB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20562 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 8/9/2002
Subject: Re: PIKEMASTER CROSSOVER PANEL
Robert,

These are very hard to come by! There is one on eBay right now...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1755946119

It is being auctioned by Marty's Trains. Be warned, that crossover
panels frequently go for over $100.00 !

Incidently, you can make a nice combination crossover, curve and dual
switch panel out of a curved panel. Their are photos of a mocked up
version of this on my web site, The All Aboard Sets Club, url listed
below...

Personal Web Site - http://myflyertrains.com
Kris Model Trains Home - http://krismodeltrains.org
The All Aboard Sets Club - http://allaboardsetsclub.org
Group: S-Trains Message: 20563 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/9/2002
Subject: Steam Engines
Here's a cool site for everything mechanical. I've given you the steam
engine page, but you can delete "steam.htm" for everything else from ball
point pens to microwave ovens.


http://www.howstuffworks.com/steam.htm.


Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20564 From: robert allen conner Date: 8/9/2002
Subject: Re: Steam Engines
Chris......Neat site...reminds me of A gats show I set up at in Dayton about
1991....A guy had a ride on sw1500 with about 12" guage track....price was
about 3000.00 I believe....Was A nice model..had cars too I think...Wonder
what ever happened to that line of stuff....Bob


> Here's a cool site for everything mechanical. I've given you the steam
> engine page, but you can delete "steam.htm" for everything else from ball
> point pens to microwave ovens.
>
>
> http://www.howstuffworks.com/steam.htm.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20565 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/9/2002
Subject: SENSORS
Hi Guys just bought 2 of these (Ebay # 1755043176) Will let you guys know
how well or not they work. Has anyone else tried these.
Talked to they guy that builds them on the phone. Says these will control
just about anything.If you use two of these that you can control crossing
bells etc with 2 one at each side of the crossing. this will start the bell
ringing & stop it. Mike S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20566 From: rkuepper Date: 8/10/2002
Subject: NASG Convention Photos
My photos of the convention activities are posted at http://www.rkuepper.com/trains/NASG%202002/NASG.html. If you find any that are mis-identified, or if you want more info on any, please contact me off-list.

Thanks.

Dick


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20567 From: Pierre Paradis Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: Need info on AF diesel horn generator....
Hello, I have the box for diesel horn but the
things like a battery is missing, it is a
condensor, how it's work?, does it give a DC
current? how mutch? any help will be very
appreciate, at the same time I'll give you an
update about my AF 494 & 495 New Haven diesel
engine, I fix the e-unit and everything works
very well, thanks to all of you give me a
support, Pierre

__________________________________________________________
Lèche-vitrine ou lèche-écran ?
magasinage.yahoo.ca
Group: S-Trains Message: 20568 From: rkuepper Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] NASG Convention Photos
If you have a problem with the address below, try

http://www.rkuepper.com/

Then select NYC Southern and then convention photos.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "rkuepper" <rkuepper@...>
To: "S-Trains" <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 12:25 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] NASG Convention Photos


> My photos of the convention activities are posted at
http://www.rkuepper.com/trains/NASG%202002/NASG.html. If you find any that
are mis-identified, or if you want more info on any, please contact me
off-list.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Dick
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20569 From: David Dewey Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: Re: Need info on AF diesel horn generator....
Pierre,
It is an adapted radio vibrator unit, and replacements are commonly
available. The AF horn, is IMHO, one of life's disapointments though, so
hope you aren't too disapointed when you get all the parts together.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20570 From: TWesthelle@aol.com Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: AF Collection/PBS Tracks Ahead
I am curious if anyone else happened onto the PBS weekly show "Tracks Ahead."
As I was flipping channels yesterday, I again stumbled onto the show, which I
always seem to do, 10-15 minutes into its start, and its being a half-hour
show, needless to say, kinna makes me feel stupid.
Well, as I watched the began to mention an individual who has quite an
operating and wall display collection, his name was Richard Robinson.
As they opened the segment, there was an AF Northern with all the collectible
900 series boxcars and others running on the track, I got so excited, called
my wife to see, she doesn't Care!!!!
It was the most incredible collection/operating layout I have ever seen.
I wondered if anyone else on the list happened to see this segment, or if
anyone happens to know this individual.
I would hope he is a part of this list, but if not, Hes a true S Gauger, and
we should try to find him!!!!!
Again, was curious if others saw this, or if anyone knows this individual.
Thanks again for this great forum.
Tom Westhelle
Oviedo, FL 32765
Group: S-Trains Message: 20571 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, August 11, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20572 From: Steve Blancard Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: Bachmann old time passenger cars
I just finished converting a set of Bachmann ON30 old time passenger
cars to S. They go well with my custom Franklin loco. I have posted a
few photos in the files section in the "Bachmann ON30 Passenger Cars"
folder. Here's a link to them:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Bachmann%20ON30%20Passenger%20Cars/

These cars are nicely detailed and reasonably priced. I converted these
by widening the trucks and installing American Models wheel sets. I
used the stock Bachmann couplers except on the front of the combine
where I used an American Models knuckle coupler on a draw bar. The
coaches are lighted, I also added an illuminated hand car type red
lantern (using a grain of wheat bulb) to the end of the observation
car. Don't want to get rear ended ya know!

Comments/questions welcome

Steve Blancard
Crustyfour
Group: S-Trains Message: 20573 From: John Foley Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: NASG Literature
Hi Folks

To any of the folks out their that belong to clubs who do shows or
do them on their own, I have the newest edition of the NASG's This is
S Gauge pamphlets and also the updated version of our Buyer's Guide.
So if you need some let me know and I will be happy to send it.
John Foley
Group: S-Trains Message: 20574 From: crustyfour Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: what's wrong with chat?
I tried getting onto chat tonight and I get a "We're sorry, this
service is not available right now..." message. Anyone else having
trouble?

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 20575 From: Roger Hinds Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: test
test
Group: S-Trains Message: 20576 From: chasman340 Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: new member
Hi All,

My name is Charles Hudacko and I have been sort of lurking on the list
for the past few months.I grew up having American flyer trains,as my
dad started buying them in 1962.After he passed away about 15 years
ago,his trains remained packed up & went thru a couple of moves.
I have his collection now and am working in cataloging them prior to
selling some of them.
I also started my own collection about 13 years ago,after I bought my
house.The trains I bought were more of the fixer-uppers but I do have a
few good items. Since I'm working on dad's trains,it got me to unpack
my own and now I want to get back into the hobby of having some trains
to run,and thus so I need to relearn how to repair some of them.
I have short list list so far of what trains need some reair and
replacement parts.And a few questions to ask the group in the next few
weeks/months.

Thanks for being here.
Charles
Group: S-Trains Message: 20577 From: David Dewey Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: Re: what's wrong with chat?
Steve,
We had a very strange chat tonite, it sometimes took over a minute for
one's text to show up in the window. Small group, most left by 6;30 Pacific
time, all gone befor 7.
We did have (limited) fun!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20578 From: David Dewey Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: Re: new member
Charles
Welcome aboard. I hope the rekindled interest has changed your mind
about selling Dad's trains. As time goes on they will have even more meaning
to you!
Fixin' Flyer (Yes, blatant plug for my Dispatch series) is lots of fun,
so ask away!
S'incerely,
David Dewey
Group: S-Trains Message: 20579 From: Gale Hall Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: Military Movers
Evening all,

Several years back, maybe 10 or so, Ertl did a series of 4 vehicles, like their Mighty Movers, except they were Military Movers, any one have a backhoe and a bulldozer they might sell or trade off, would consider the motor grader, but not really interestd in the articulated dump truck.

As a side note, in the GI Joe line of diecast vehicles there is a M113 APC in sand color, this is very near to the size of the Ertl APC with the the TOW launcher on top but at a much better price....Wally World has them normally at $1.88, and have seen several on clearance lately for $1.00...the rest of the GI Joe stuff is too small, except the Hummer and it is too large, but the APC is worth the money.

gale hall


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20580 From: chasman340 Date: 8/11/2002
Subject: my dad's trains
Hello all,

Well I already know that I would like to keep all of them,but I have 2
brothers that want their share of the inheritance in money.

Also I recognize some of the folks list within the membership
roster,from those that I have met in years past & those whose names are
from articles I have read in S Gaugian & Classic toy trains, and also
as sellers & buyers on ebay.
With that in mind some of you folks might know me better from my email
address of chasman@...
instead of this chasman340 login.

Charles
Group: S-Trains Message: 20581 From: Gill W. Lott Date: 8/12/2002
Subject: Re: Bachmann old time passenger cars
A continue to be amazed at the quality of work and ingenuity of the individuals that are
associated with this group!!!!
Beautiful job on the entire train!!!!!

>>> Steve Blancard <splitdorf@...> 8/11/02 5:34:52 PM >>>
I just finished converting a set of Bachmann ON30 old time passenger
cars to S. They go well with my custom Franklin loco. I have posted a
few photos in the files section in the "Bachmann ON30 Passenger Cars"
folder. Here's a link to them:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Bachmann%20ON30%20Passenger%20Cars/

These cars are nicely detailed and reasonably priced. I converted these
by widening the trucks and installing American Models wheel sets. I
used the stock Bachmann couplers except on the front of the combine
where I used an American Models knuckle coupler on a draw bar. The
coaches are lighted, I also added an illuminated hand car type red
lantern (using a grain of wheat bulb) to the end of the observation
car. Don't want to get rear ended ya know!

Comments/questions welcome

Steve Blancard
Crustyfour



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 20582 From: robert allen conner Date: 8/12/2002
Subject: Re: Military Movers
Gale.......Try TOY LIQUIDATORS or K BEE....I have left a lot of Backhoes and
Graders on the racks over the last few months while looking for the Tanks
which are close to 1/64....have found 12 for my army train...Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 20583 From: John Foley Date: 8/12/2002
Subject: Fwd: parts list
>Hi Folks

This fellow sent me this AF parts list. Some of you
I guess may know him. Any questions email Gino.
John

>
>
>
>Gino Restivo rev; 7-23-02
>1244 Sulphur Spring Rd.
>Arbutus, MD. 21227
>send E-Mail to <mailto:lastman@...>lastman@...
>
>7-15-01 1(410)- 247 - 4675 Voice - Ans. Mach - Fax - Same #
>
>part # Desc. price
>759 - 760 finial top 2.00
>761 finial top 2.25
>788-789 etc, chimney red , 3.00
>788 - 789 roof , complete 39.95
>793-795 roof vent w/ screw 4.75
>793- 795 roof complete, ptd grn 28.50
>8662 gen w/ screw (332-336) 2.75
>8861 yoke / search lite ,w/screws, black 8.25
>8968 link cplr / " O " , cast metal 1.95
>9249 rear hnd whl, w/shaft, tin crane 7.50
>9249a side hnd whl, w/shaft, tin crane 6.50
>9446 pilot , multi-cast atlantic , 300, 7.25
>9460 pilot 342 ptd blk 12.50
>10002-L trailing trk side / hudsn-nrthrm 2.50
>10002-R trailing trk side / hudsn-nrthrn 2.50
>10012 front truck casting only 3.50
>10012 complete front truck 6.95
>10020-L k-5 trailing truck side 2.65
>10020-R k-5 trailing truck side 3.10
>10030 cylinder & steam chest northerns 12.75
>10333 water spout, early metal w/ wght 8.50
> " " late plastic 5.50
>10490 frt trk , 350, 353-4-6 11.95
>10781 lite support cross bar,759/760 6.25
>10782 lite housing , 760 / 759 etc 3.00
>11219 alum car end 5.95
>11257 770 figure ( METAL ) painted 7.50
>11290 roof 771 , cattle coral , grn 7.40
>11517 pilot 370 , late ( no wire ) 5.00
>11679 tndr trk side, hdsn - nrthn 2.50
>11774 handle, trans, dead man's 11.50
>11B913 pilot kc,371 black $ 5.75 ,
> " " 372 gray , 6.25
>12c478 pilot 343 - 346 ptd blk 13.50
>13a084 sheet metal front trk , complete 6.95
>13b992a roof, 752/a seabrd coaler 11.50
>15b659-1 franklin blr front ( black ) 12.00
> washington " frt 15.00
>25057 exploding boxcar end, silver 8.50
> " " , brown 8.75
>? trk side pass car, 960's,20,30,40 2.50
>? trk side , hvywt pass, ptd blk , 950's 2.50
>? smoke stack / brandford, ptd red 2.50
>? diner TV antenna 7.95
>ho- 9353 trl trk side hudson L- R each 2.50
>10381 rectiformer tube guard , 14.50
>cannon , original style,non working 25.00
>766 guilford station figure , man or woman 6.50 ea
>hudson or K 5 front tender repair steps, unpainted , 2.00 ea.
>
>
>shipping is by U. S. Priority Mail , min shipping cost $ 5.00 ,
>
>***** NOTICE ALL DEALERS , PAYMENTS DUE IN 20 DAYS *****
>
>make all payment's to GINO RESTIVO , with postal money order. If their are any
>
>part's you need, let me know even if you don't see them on my list .......


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20584 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 8/12/2002
Subject: Re: AF COLLECTION/PBS
Surprise. Our club has made contact with
Richard Robinson. He is in Southeastern, PA.
We will visit his layout in October. My wife
and I just bout a "Satellite Dish" and no
longer can get that local PBS station.
Seems to be on South Jersey PBS
locally.

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn


Message: 1
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 16:06:04 EDT
From: TWesthelle@...
Subject: AF Collection/PBS Tracks Ahead

I am curious if anyone else happened onto the PBS weekly show "Tracks Ahead."
As I was flipping channels yesterday, I again stumbled onto the show, which I
always seem to do, 10-15 minutes into its start, and its being a half-hour
show, needless to say, kinna makes me feel stupid.
Well, as I watched the began to mention an individual who has quite an
operating and wall display collection, his name was Richard Robinson.
As they opened the segment, there was an AF Northern with all the collectible
900 series boxcars and others running on the track, I got so excited, called
my wife to see, she doesn't Care!!!!
It was the most incredible collection/operating layout I have ever seen.
I wondered if anyone else on the list happened to see this segment, or if
anyone happens to know this individual.
I would hope he is a part of this list, but if not, Hes a true S Gauger, and
we should try to find him!!!!!
Again, was curious if others saw this, or if anyone knows this individual.
Thanks again for this great forum.
Tom Westhelle
Oviedo, FL 32765
Group: S-Trains Message: 20585 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/12/2002
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains
group.

File : / 21004 Pennsy Switcher/21004SteamTender.jpg
Uploaded by : trainspeak <trainspeak@...>
Description : 21004/21404 Steam & Tender

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/%20%2021004%20Pennsy%20Switcher/21004SteamTender.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

trainspeak <trainspeak@...>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20586 From: John Foley Date: 8/12/2002
Subject: Cats
Hi Folks
Here's a couple of new items from Norscot in S scale
A cat 988G wheel loader
http://www.norscotmall.com/cgi-ctm/shopper.exe


John

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20587 From: Bill Lane Date: 8/12/2002
Subject: Bill's CHEAP car sale
Hi All,

Perhaps some of you had the chance to take advantage of my CHEAP car sale at
the NASG convention. Much to my surprise, 3 of them did not sell. So, here
is your chance to take home THREE American Models boxcars for a LOW low
price. They all have scale wheels. They had Kadee couplers on them until 2
weeks ago, so the holes are already there. Ladders and stirrup steps are
somewhat optional. These will go out the door for a whopping $35.00 SHIPPED
(in the US) to the first "I want 'em" email. Get them now before they hit
Ebay!

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/BillsCheapCars.jpg

Thanks
Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 20588 From: VB Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Atlanta Hobby shops carrying S .....?
Dear list members...


I will be stopping at Atlanta, Georgia on a trip this weekend. I will arrive late Friday night. Are there any hobby shops there that carry S that I can visit? Any help would be greatly apreciated!

Thank you in advance...

Vince


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20589 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Need Lou's Tattoo
Pardon me.
I am at work and can not remember who does Lou's Tattoo. I have
decided to purchase one.

Thorin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20590 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Need Lou's Tattoo
Thank you. It is indeed Downtown Deco and you have the correct name. I
visited the web site and it is there: but the web site does not have an
S-Page. The model is found on the O scale page.
I have sent them e-mail asking the price and what else is in S
Scale.

Thorin

-----Original Message-----
From: t.hawley [mailto:t.hawley@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 9:03 AM
To: Marty.Thorin
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Need Lou's Tattoo


If you mean the building kit Blue Angel Smoke Shop and Tattoo Parlor, I
think it was Downtown Deco.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty.Thorin" <thorin.marty@...>
To: "S-Scale (E-mail)" <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com>; "'S-Trains (E-mail)"
<S-Trains@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 9:49 AM
Subject: [S-Scale] Need Lou's Tattoo


> Pardon me.
> I am at work and can not remember who does Lou's Tattoo. I have
> decided to purchase one.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20591 From: Scott Connery Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Train for sale
I have decided to sell my full set of American Flyer trains. Below is listed
the pieces I have for sale as preferable a whole set or groups, and
preferably not as separate pieces. Please let me know if you are interested
and what your offer is.

Whistles:
Steam
Diesel

Railway pieces:
uncoupler
semaphore
electric track switch X2
manual track switch X4
automatic rail road crossing
live stock yard / loader w/ live stock
barrel loader w/ barrels
coal loader

City Pieces:
house - white walls, green roof
fire station
central station
station platform

Transformers:
No.. 1 1/2 (black)
No. 4B (black)
No. 4B (blue)

Trains:

Diesel engine:
466 Comet

Diesel Cars:
caboose (Washington 962)
dome passenger car (hamilton 962) X3
baggage car (Columbus 960)

Steam engines:
Reading Lines, metal, 3 wheel, w/ smoke
New York - New Haven - Hartford, 2 wheel

Animated Cars:
animated cattle car
animated caboose

unanimated Cars:
cattle car
passenger car (green)
caboose car
barrel car
goods cars X2
coal car X2
oil car (gulf)
Lots of track, including the criss-cross track.

Thank you,

Scott Connery
Group: S-Trains Message: 20592 From: af21115 Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Wonder if this is to scale??
Found this under S Scale: American Flyer category on E-Bay.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1758252562
Group: S-Trains Message: 20593 From: David Dewey Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Wonder if this is to scale?? I dunno, anyone dying to find out?
Nyuck, nyuck, nyuck! I couldn't resist!
S
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20594 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Re: Wonder if this is to scale??
>Found this under S Scale: American Flyer category on E-Bay.

>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1758252562


I can dig it.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20595 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: To Scale
Beware It's a plot Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20596 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Trains for sale
Steam engines:
Reading Lines, metal, 3 wheel, w/ smoke
New York - New Haven - Hartford, 2 wheel


Is this not the other way around? What you call a 3 wheel is a 4-6-2
Pacific with NY, NH & H markings. The Reading Atlantic is a 4-4-2 (two
drivers on one side). Si or no?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20597 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Re: Wonder if this is to scale?? I dunno, anyone dying to find out?
I understand it's manufactured by Gar-Graves

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20598 From: TWesthelle@aol.com Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Aluminum 600 Series Pass Cars
I am looking for an end cap, pot/lead type metal piece, that screws into the
ends of the aluminum bodied 600 series passenger cars.
I have been unable to find one individually as a repo part, and wonder if
anyone out there may have a totaled junker car with an intact end that they
would be willing to sell.
If anyone has, or knows of where I can obtain such a piece, please let me
know off the list.
Thanks again,
Tom Westhelle
Oviedo, FL 32765
Group: S-Trains Message: 20599 From: robert allen conner Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Re: Wonder if this is to scale?? I dunno, anyone dying to find out?
As the inscription goes...

On the headstone was printed

I WAS ONCE WHERE YOU ARE NOW...
SOMEDAY YOU WILL BE WHERE I AM NOW !!!!

Some scribbled under it !!!!

I WOULD NOT BE CONTENT...
UNLESS I KNEW WHICH WAY YOU WENT !!!!


Bob Conner
Group: S-Trains Message: 20600 From: Pierre Paradis Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: AF horn generator question...
Does the horn tube can be install on whistle
controler and how mutch for a good one on the
market, the tube generator with the controler,
(ex: ebay), thanks, Pierre.

__________________________________________________________
Lèche-vitrine ou lèche-écran ?
magasinage.yahoo.ca
Group: S-Trains Message: 20601 From: Paul Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Cincinnati Museum S Layout Pictures
I got my pictures online from my recent trip to Cincy Museum.
Hope you enjoy them. And Yes, most of the stuff is S or near S.
I got some closeups that the public will never see.
Also got some shots of the control panel.
Its a tough place to shoot, bad lighting and lots of plexiglass.


http://www.homestead.com/PYorke/files/cincy/cincy1.html
http://www.homestead.com/PYorke/files/cincy/cincy2.html
http://www.homestead.com/PYorke/files/cincy/cincy3.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20602 From: afstrains@aol.com Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: New Haven Train Show
Hello Everyone, Just a reminder that the best show in Connecticut is this
weekend at Yale University's Payne Whitney Gym - Sunday, August 18 from 9 -
3. Stop by and say hello. By the way, Doug Peck with parts and S Helper
Service will be there with product and layout as will 6 operating layouts
three of which are S. For more information see our website <A HREF="http://afstrains.com/show.htm">AFSTrains.com</A>.
John and Robin Vanacore


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20603 From: TCS Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: An email from one of my customers
Today I email one of my customers and ask him how many cars he had in
his collection, below is his answer.

Subject: Re: question


> I haven't totaled them in awhile but I have at least 8,000 just
freight
> cars, about 200 passenger cars, and over 200 engines (just about all
> diesel). I received your shipment today and I am really impressed
with some
> of the different and unusal ones you come up with!
>
> N Edward Smith
Group: S-Trains Message: 20604 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Buried AC Gilbert Treasure?!
Quoted from the website of Vincent Amato/Hobby Surplus;

Word that I had purchased so much from Gilbert spread and offers came for
various lots remaining in distributors’ warehouses. I purchased one such lot
from a St. Louis distributor. It contained about five hundred All Aboard
panels, and quite a bit of various small locomotives and other items. The
locos and accessories went very quickly. But the All Aboard panels did not
sell. Five years later, my store in New Britain, Connecticut was destroyed
when the building burned beyond repair. More than 400 All Aboard panels had
been stored in the store’s cellar. While wet, they had not touched by fire.
Because almost none had sold in the five years I stored them there, I did not
bother to remove them. They are now buried under what is now a parking lot. I’
d like to be there when some future archaeologist tries to figure out what
they were used for!

Would a metal detector work?

John R

John R







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20605 From: TCS Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Re: [RM-forum] Re: An email from one of my customers
Oh I forgot to add, that all his cars are painted and decaled by
himself.
---
---
Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals
N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals for prototype models
26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054
Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@...
Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/
Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/
NMRA Member #121756
Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
---
---
----- Original Message -----
From: "hunter48820" <hunter48820@...>
To: <RAILROADmodeler@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 9:42 PM
Subject: [RM-forum] Re: An email from one of my customers


> Now there's a real collector :-)
>
> Best,
> Andy Keeney
> Dewitt, MI
>
>
>
> --- In RAILROADmodeler@y..., "TCS" <oddballdecal@l...> wrote:
> > Today I email one of my customers and ask him how many cars he had
> in
> > his collection, below is his answer.
> >
> > Subject: Re: question
> >
> >
> > > I haven't totaled them in awhile but I have at least 8,000 just
> > freight
> > > cars, about 200 passenger cars, and over 200 engines (just about
> all
> > > diesel
Group: S-Trains Message: 20606 From: chasman340 Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Repaint or not?
Hi All,

I have within my personal collection a 21234 long step version.It's got
the flaking paint problem,with it mostly limited to flaking off the end
& side handrails.There is about 50 to 75 % gone.
Should I have this repainted or not.If not,would it affect it's value
if I at least sprayed a clear coat over the flaking areas ?

Thanks,
Charles
Group: S-Trains Message: 20607 From: chasman340 Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Parts needed
Hello All,

Does anybody have a complete GP-7 motor truck assmy ? I'm also looking
for a replacement door for a 25056.I need the door that the figure is
behind.

Thanks,
Charles
Group: S-Trains Message: 20608 From: trainspeak Date: 8/13/2002
Subject: Need an original 372 UP Numberboard
Hi all!

I need an original 372 UP numberboard. Any help is appreciated.

Thanks!

GN
Group: S-Trains Message: 20609 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 8/14/2002
Subject: Re: AF horn generator question...
There are some for sale right now at my favorate trains store, eBay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1756984569

Pierre Paradis wrote:

>Does the horn tube can be install on whistle
>controler and how mutch for a good one on the
>market, the tube generator with the controler,
>(ex: ebay), thanks, Pierre.
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20610 From: Chuck Smith Date: 8/14/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Everyone respond
> This poll is posted by "Crossroads of America" HTTP://travel.to/cofa
>
> Please delete everything from here up before responding. Thanks
>
> 1:Do you collect American flyer trains? yes Interests: Passenger? yes
> Gilbert? Y Freight ? yes
> AF by Lionel? Y
> AF by General Mills? Y
>
> 2: Are you into Scale?
> High Rail? Y
>
> 3: "S" Narrow gauge? What size?
>
> 4:Is everything you use ready made? Some? Y all? None?
> Do you make your own;
> Lokos?
> passenger cars? NO
> Freight cars? SOME
> Structures? SOME
> Scenery? ALL
> Benchwork? ALL
> Bridges/Trestles? SOME
> Do you do your own electrical work? Y
>
> 5:Are you an arm chair modeler? N
> In the planning stages? N
> Do you have a layout? Y Percentage of completion (by an observer)? 100
>
> 6:Are you into visiting RR yards? N
> riding trains? N
> chasing trains? N
>
> 7: Into railroad photagraphy heavily? N
> moderate? N
> seldom? N
>
> 8:Are you a member of RR clubs? Y Which ones. TCA, TTCS, NASG, LOCAL S
>
> 9:Are you into Live steam (the ones you sit on top of)? N
>
> 10: Do you paint/draw railroad scenes? Y
>
> 11: Do you make wooden trains? N
>
> 12: do you use other scales? Y Which ones? HO & G
>
> Other Ares of interest that may be of interest to train buffs. PRR
>
> A:Computer questions:
> Are you just a computer operator? Y
> Are you into using programs ouside of windows? (such as DOS) N
> Can you do your own computer repair or construction? (mechanical) Y
>
> B: Do you collect or build, Model cars? N
> " Ships? N
> airplanes? Y
> trucks? N
> motorcycles? N
>
> C:remote control (wireless) modeler? N
>
> D: Are you a stamp collector? N
>
> E: Coin collector? N
>
> F: Into hot rods? N Race cars? N
>
> G: Play golf? Y
>
> H: Do you have a boat you use? N
>
> I: Do you weld? N work with metal? Y wood crafts? N
>
> J: What other kinds of collections do you have, not mentioned above.
> (Please oh please! ---- be brief.) TRAIN & MODEL TRAIN BOOKS
>
> K: are you a ham radio operator? N CB operator? N
> ( I won't ask about cell phones )
>
> Feel free to state other hobbies you are into.
> Include special skills you might have in common with another
> model railroader. They needn't be train related?
>
> This should be interesting :o)
>
> To see or post Photos visit
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
> or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
> To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 20611 From: Roger Hinds Date: 8/14/2002
Subject: Everyone respond
Please. I hope you will respond.

This poll is a bit different. The poll is to see how many of us have the same
interests in common. So the poll will ask about train items and go into
different areas. The advantage to you is you may be interested in visiting a
person that collects trains, builds hot rods (real ones), and is a ham radio
operator. Why? because you might be into the same things.

So put an X beside each item that applies to you.

Note: Respond to Cofa at together.net only.
I don't want to bog down the train groups with e-mail on this.

The reason I am doing this is because I notice a lot of people I meet have the
same interests in other areas that I do. For instance, it might be interesting
to discover a lot of you are heavily into cameras.


So.--- Moving right along



Please no lenghty stories. Just X where apporpiate unless other wise asked
for sometning specific.

This poll is posted by "Crossroads of America" HTTP://travel.to/cofa

Please delete everything from here up before responding. Thanks

1:Do you collect American flyer trains? Interests: Passenger?
Gilbert? Freight ?
AF by Lionel?
AF by General Mills?

2: Are you into Scale?
High Rail?

3: "S" Narrow gauge? What size?

4:Is everything you use ready made? Some? all? None?
Do you make your own;
Lokos?
passenger cars?
Freight cars?
Structures?
Scenery?
Benchwork?
Bridges/Trestles?
Do you do your own electrical work?

5:Are you an arm chair modeler?
In the planning stages?
Do you have a layout? Percentage of completion (by an observer)?

6:Are you into visiting RR yards?
riding trains?
chasing trains?

7: Into railroad photagraphy heavily?
moderate?
seldom?

8:Are you a member of RR clubs? Which ones.

9:Are you into Live steam (the ones you sit on top of)?

10: Do you paint/draw railroad scenes?

11: Do you make wooden trains?

12: do you use other scales? Which ones?



Other Ares of interest that may be of interest to train buffs.

A:Computer questions:
Are you just a computer operator?
Are you into using programs ouside of windows? (such as DOS)
Can you do your own computer repair or construction? (mechanical)

B: Do you collect or build, Model cars?
" Ships?
airplanes?
trucks?
motorcycles?

C:remote control (wireless) modeler?

D: Are you a stamp collector?

E: Coin collector?

F: Into hot rods? Race cars?

G: Play golf?

H: Do you have a boat you use?

I: Do you weld? work with metal? wood crafts?

J: What other kinds of collections do you have, not mentioned above.
(Please oh please! ---- be brief.)

K: are you a ham radio operator? CB operator?
( I won't ask about cell phones )

Feel free to state other hobbies you are into.
Include special skills you might have in common with another
model railroader. They needn't be train related?

Note: Respond to Cofa at together.net only.
I don't want to bog down the train groups with e-mail on this.

This should be interesting :o)
Group: S-Trains Message: 20612 From: rkuepper Date: 8/14/2002
Subject: Re: Everyone respond
> 1:Do you collect American flyer trains? y Interests: Passenger? y
> Gilbert? y Freight ?y
> AF by Lionel? n
> AF by General Mills? n
>
> 2: Are you into Scale? n
> High Rail? y
>
> 3: "S" Narrow gauge? n What size?
>
> 4:Is everything you use ready made? n Some? y all? n None?n
> Do you make your own; y
> Lokos? n
> passenger cars? n
> Freight cars? n
> Structures? y
> Scenery? y
> Benchwork? y
> Bridges/Trestles? y
> Do you do your own electrical work? y
>
> 5:Are you an arm chair modeler? n
> In the planning stages?
> Do you have a layout? Percentage of completion (by an
observer)?
>
> 6:Are you into visiting RR yards? n
> riding trains? y
> chasing trains? n
>
> 7: Into railroad photagraphy heavily? n
> moderate? y
> seldom?
>
> 8:Are you a member of RR clubs? y Which ones. NMRA, CVSGA, NASG
>
> 9:Are you into Live steam (the ones you sit on top of)? n
>
> 10: Do you paint/draw railroad scenes? n
>
> 11: Do you make wooden trains? n
>
> 12: do you use other scales? n Which ones?
>
>
>
> Other Ares of interest that may be of interest to train buffs.
>
> A:Computer questions:
> Are you just a computer operator?
> Are you into using programs ouside of windows? (such as DOS) y
> Can you do your own computer repair or construction? (mechanical) some
>
> B: Do you collect or build, Model cars? n
> " Ships? y
> airplanes? n
> trucks? n
> motorcycles? n
>
> C:remote control (wireless) modeler? n
>
> D: Are you a stamp collector? n
>
> E: Coin collector? n
>
> F: Into hot rods? n Race cars? n
>
> G: Play golf? n
>
> H: Do you have a boat you use? not anymore
>
> I: Do you weld? n work with metal? n wood crafts? y
>
> J: What other kinds of collections do you have, not mentioned above.
> (Please oh please! ---- be brief.)
>
> K: are you a ham radio operator? n CB operator? n
> ( I won't ask about cell phones )
>
> Feel free to state other hobbies you are into.
> Include special skills you might have in common with another
> model railroader. They needn't be train related?
>
> Note: Respond to Cofa at together.net only.
> I don't want to bog down the train groups with e-mail on this.
>
> This should be interesting :o)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20613 From: trainspeak Date: 8/14/2002
Subject: Selling a few Flyer/Plasticville items
Hi all!

I'm selling most of my American Flyer and boxed Plasticville items
due to a new addition to the family. Hooray!!!

If you have any interest, you can view a short list of items at:

http://members.cox.net/nickstrains/AmerFlyer.htm

You can also visit the file section of the S-Trains group to view the
21004 switcher.

Thanks much!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20614 From: mrb006@aol.com Date: 8/14/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1544
Please change my email address from:

mrb006@...

To:

mburke1656@...

Thanks,
Mike Burke
Group: S-Trains Message: 20615 From: David Dewey Date: 8/14/2002
Subject: Re: Selling a few Flyer/Plasticville items
I hope your keeping some operator pieces for that new addition to run in a
few years!!
Congrats
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20616 From: Neil Trump Date: 8/15/2002
Subject: S gauge advertising in the CTT
I have just received my October CTT here in the UK today. I was pleasantly surprised to see the full page advertisement on page 13 (lucky number or not?) promoting S gauge by a number of well known dealers.

I guess a full page ad with the cost split between eight people works out extremely well, it is much better than having them split all over the mag and lost in a forgotten corner.

Well done to those people who put it all together. I hope this is a semi-regular feature, cost being a consideration of course.

Neil T


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20617 From: TCS Date: 8/15/2002
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scale
714 MKT caboose. (1940's) Painted tuscan red. White graphics.

715 MKT heralds. 40" & 48", 9 of each size. Fits on steam engine tenders
and water tanks. Red, black & white graphics.

716 Nebkota Railway, NRI PS-2, 2 bay covered hopper. (4-97) Painted med
grey. Red, black & white graphics.

717 Nebkota Railway bay window caboose & Hood units. (late 90's) Red,
black & white graphics.

718 Nebraska Central tranfer caboose. (90's+) Black & white graphics.

Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-.
N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These
should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so.

If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N,
HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $2.00 for p&h. You buy this catalog once,
then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring
binder.

---
---
Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals
N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals
26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054
Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@...
Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/
Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/
NMRA Member #121756
Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20618 From: Pierre Paradis Date: 8/15/2002
Subject: New haven AF diesel 494 & 495 update...
Hello all, I like to thanks all of you they gave
me some trick and information to repaired my
train. I repaired the e-unit: I toke it out and
made some new finger at the right size, it took a
few time to get it right but at last it's working
pretty good, repaired the top inger board broken
in 2 pieces, glue with a little drop of
crazy-glue, and I reconnect all wires by the
diagram( Tom ) was sent to me, thanks again, and
after that it was missing some metal ladder, so I
made some with very tin brass plate, paint it
black and install it with a pieces of guitar cord
bent in 'U' shape to hold it in place, I cleaned
the motor, remove all congeal grease and put some
refresh one, adjust the brush to get the full
speed of each one at the same speed, those engine
is running like a new one now, the 494 only run
with 7.8v, I think I made a good job on it
because you help me, again thanks to all of you,
the next step, it will be the horn generator, I
have the box button but the generator is missing
with the board hold it, so I will buy another one
and install it, I hope it will work, the roar is
working and the horn assembly like in good shape,
I let you know in the futur e-mail, those train
was found in aution near my home and I was so
muth suprise to see it then I was hesitate to bit
on it, the set include a 4B transfo 100 watts,
set of tracks not rusting, new haven box car
orange 984, another box car eagle 983,
pennsylvania (reel western electric include) 936,
911 gondola missing tube and yellow support, and
the caboose 930 tuscan, all of them in very good
shape, some missing couplers, brake weels and a
box car door, so I found those parts and install
new couplers, it was a beautiful aution to me, I
will remember all my life, so muth happy, Pierre (Peter)

__________________________________________________________
Lèche-vitrine ou lèche-écran ?
magasinage.yahoo.ca
Group: S-Trains Message: 20619 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 8/15/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Joe's Train Repair is now accepting orders for the
American Flyer items listed in the Lionel 2002 Volume
2 catalogue. All orders must be received by Friday,
August 23rd to ensure purchase. Photographs of these
items can be seen at:


http://www.lionel.com/Products/Catalogs/cat-2002-c-2/pgs-62-63.htm

6-48412 Alaska 3-dome Tank Car $42
6-48528 Conrail Flatcar w/wheel loader $52
6-48529 NYC Flatcar w/wheel load $42
6-48621 Canadian National Covered Hopper $42
6-48961 NYC Passenger Car (2-pack) $120
(diner and coach)

Shipping and handling, preferably by Priority Mail,
are extra. Again, all orders must be received by
Friday, August 23rd to ensure purchase. Credit card
holders of record who confirm uswe of their card will
have their order shipped immediately upon arrival.
For others, payment due before delivery; you will be
notified when payment is due. Orders accepted by
e-mail or telephone (919/471-2613). Confirm payment
method and, if by telephone, leave payment
instructions.

Joe


=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20620 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 8/15/2002
Subject: 2002 AF Christmas Boxcar
Lionel has announced its Christmas 2002 Boxcar for
American Flyer (#6-48346). Joe's Train Repair is now
accepting orders for this car. Suggested retail price
is $54.95. Our price will be $46 plus shipping and
handling. All orders must be received by Friday,
August 23rd to ensure purchase.

=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20621 From: Al Reibel Date: 8/15/2002
Subject: Hudson help?
I need some help from the wizards!
I have a Hudson, but I can't find any info on
it in the few resources I have. It has number
5302 on the cab, and "New York Central"
on the tender, both spelled out and in the
oval logo. It doesn't say "Flyer" on the
tender at all, unlike all the others I've seen.
It does have AMerican Flyer cast into the
lead truck. Is this a repaint or is it a valid
number?
I need to order a few parts, so I'd like to pin
it down.
Thanks!
Al Reibel
Group: S-Trains Message: 20622 From: Al Reibel Date: 8/15/2002
Subject: Re: Hudson help?
Hi Neil,

> I guess we are right in thinking it is 'S' gauge?
Yup!
>
> First, does it have a link or knuckle coupler?
Link couplers, everything looks "stock"

> Does it have the smoke unit in the tender or loco, this determines if it
is
> early '46-47 or between '47 and '52 ish.
Smoke in Tender, looks like - a small cap on the tender, and
looks like a hose going into the locomotive.

> I think that is enough to start with
A few other details, since you got me to look a little closer-
-A switch on top of the boiler, between the domes-
a reverse unit?
-The lettering on the tender appears to be the same
"font" as the other Flyer I have, and the NYC logo
looks like others. It also has "NYC" on the steam dome.
-6 wheel trucks on the tender
I would tend to think it's a newer one, it's still a
metal boiler though- If needed, I'll take it to work and get a
couple digital pics, and see if that helps.
Thanks!
Al
Group: S-Trains Message: 20624 From: Al Reibel Date: 8/15/2002
Subject: Re: Hudson Help!
Many thanks to Neil, Gale and Bob for their
help! And Gale, DON"T be expecting a
package soon! :^)
I'll try to get a few pics of it, whoever did it did
a really nice job! I do need to find a trailing truck
for it, but it sounds like it's common to several
models? I've seen a few on Ebay, but wanted to
be sure- I have the original one, but even my trusty
five minute epoxy can't seem to keep the darn
thing together (one of the sideframes is broken
off).
And one additional (stupid newbie type) question-
what is an E unit??? I've seen several references,
is this the "automatic reversing unit" or something
else?
Thanks!
Al
Group: S-Trains Message: 20625 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/15/2002
Subject: Yet another poll
> This poll is posted by "Crossroads of America" HTTP://travel.to/cofa
> Please delete everything from here up before responding. Thanks

What, pray tell, is this poll for? Why is there always someone trying to
gather up information about others? Isn't it enough that we all have
similar train interests? Do we need to answer in detail about our habits?
Who wants this information? Who needs this information? What possible
interest could be served by knowing what I like about trains?

There is so much information gathering going on on the Internet by people we
don't even know that it is wonderful to come back home to a quiet spot, with
friends who don't have to be so nosy; people we can converse with at ease.
Imagine coming home and having your wife trying to sell you insurance and
your kids hocking you to test drive the new Nissan Maxima. Isn't home where
you put your feet up and relax without all that noise? I know TV intrudes,
but my personal relationships are not commercial ones.

I have an idea. Let's have a moratorium on polls. Let's see if we can go a
whole year without one. Let's talk to each other like human beings instead
of like relevant statistics.

Conversation. Now there's a novel concept.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20626 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/15/2002
Subject: Re: Yet another poll
OK Chris I'll put you down for no polls that's 2 so far for polls 1 no In
my non-poll poll. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20627 From: Lee Johnson Date: 8/15/2002
Subject: S-West IV
After having a very successful S-West III in Coeur d'Alene, ID in 1998, I'm
pleased to announce that the fourth Western regional S convention (S-West
IV) will be held in Stockton, CA on October 24-26 (Thursday evening thru
Saturday) at the Stockton Inn (Best Western) hotel. There will be dealer
and manufacturer tables along with scale and hi-rail modular layouts, a
large scale layout, a large scale/hi-rail layout, and a AF/hi-rail layout
all on tour. Additional information and a registration form can be found at

http://home.pacbell.net/meldridg/bass

If you have any questions pertaining to S-West IV, you can contact me at

leemax@...


Lee Johnson
Walnut Creek, CA
Group: S-Trains Message: 20628 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 8/16/2002
Subject: Re: Yet another poll
This pretty much sums it up. I couldn't agree more.
Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Zizzo [mailto:busyboy@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 9:49 PM
To: slist
Subject: [S-Trains] Yet another poll


> This poll is posted by "Crossroads of America" HTTP://travel.to/cofa
> Please delete everything from here up before responding. Thanks

What, pray tell, is this poll for? Why is there always someone trying to
gather up information about others? Isn't it enough that we all have
similar train interests? Do we need to answer in detail about our habits?
Who wants this information? Who needs this information? What possible
interest could be served by knowing what I like about trains?

There is so much information gathering going on on the Internet by people we
don't even know that it is wonderful to come back home to a quiet spot, with
friends who don't have to be so nosy; people we can converse with at ease.
Imagine coming home and having your wife trying to sell you insurance and
your kids hocking you to test drive the new Nissan Maxima. Isn't home where
you put your feet up and relax without all that noise? I know TV intrudes,
but my personal relationships are not commercial ones.

I have an idea. Let's have a moratorium on polls. Let's see if we can go a
whole year without one. Let's talk to each other like human beings instead
of like relevant statistics.

Conversation. Now there's a novel concept.

Chris Zizzo



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



+

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 20629 From: robert allen conner Date: 8/16/2002
Subject: WAY OFF TOPIC
I ran across this on the net ....I know it doesn't relate to S GUAGE....But
it made me LAUGH !!!!!

http://www.maritimeconsultant.com/tugboat.htm


Bob Conner
Group: S-Trains Message: 20630 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 8/16/2002
Subject: polls
I think polls could be useful in certain instances, such as when a
prospective manufacturer has a question about his market. We must
necessarily depend on small manufacturers who might be greatly aided by
surveying our preferences about S gauge trains.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20631 From: aolh2oman Date: 8/16/2002
Subject: S-West IV clinics
Clinics are needed for the S Scale West show, October 24 –26th at
the Stockton Inn (Best Western) hotel, located in Stockton
California.
I am looking for individuals or teams who would like to put on a
clinic or two.
If you have an idea or a presentation on any aspect of S scale you
would like to make, please contact me off list. Or feel free to call
me, my number is listed in the Dispatch directory.
I will need to know of any special arrangements or equipment you may
need for your clinic, the earlier I know this the better chance I
have of obtaining the items needed.
A special room will be available for the clinics. This will help
control lighting and also help control the noise level. If you need
help getting a clinic together I will be happy to assist you or find
someone who can. Sharing ideas and information through clinics is
one of the best ways to get people more involved in our scale and
keep it going.

Joe Visintine
Salinas California
h2oman@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20632 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/16/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, August 18, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20633 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/16/2002
Subject: Re: WAY OFF TOPIC
Oh, no, the Titanic has gone completely under now and . . . wait, hold on a
minute, it's back up and, say, this thing IS unsinkable!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20634 From: kc6ktj Date: 8/16/2002
Subject: Caboose, (48712) Happy New Year B/W "0101" Lionel / A.F.
Please!

If anyone know's where I can get one of the above identified Caboose.

Please! Provide contact information.

Please! No e-bay. I'll deal with owner directly. Thank You! Have a
Great "S" gauge day!

NASG Member
Group: S-Trains Message: 20635 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 8/16/2002
Subject: S-West IV
A note to all members of the list (and friends). Sam and I and Jess Bennett
will be attending S-West IV in Stockton Cal. in October. We will have a
supply of both versions of our Steam Loco can motors on hand as well as
several copies of all 5 of our Videos on S-Gauge model railroading. We'll
bring the can motored 370 along to show the folks. We have most of the parts
on hand now to do the conversions, so it won't be much longer before they
will become available.

In another vein we will make some of the conversion parts available to the
public on a "pair" basis. We have replacement worm drive gears for Alco's and
Geep's in 30:1 and 16:1 ratios. We also have the bronze self oiling bearings
that the armature (worm) shaft rides in. We have just completed the machining
of these and we have 500 pair of each on hand.

We are also going to offer 5 volume sets of the Videos produced so far. They
will sell for $65 PPD. They will be available for $60 at S-West. This offer
Starts Aug 24 and will end on October 31.

Regards to all....Steve Blackburn, Sam Rapp, S-'n-S Trains..Boise, Idaho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20636 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 8/17/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] NASG's "S Trains Buyer's Guide"
Hi All:
It seems as though there are good ideas expressed by all sides. Having
been responsible for many massive reports, I know how fast time can slip
by. If there is an electronic copy of this available, why not put
together a small group of interested people [Including Ed and Milo - and
based on my comments, I will also volunteer (although I am not
exceptionally knowledgeable) + others interested and knowledgeable in
scale and AF/high rail] to begin to separate and modify the list into
AF/hi-rail and scale. This would give us sufficient time so that when
the time comes to print it, we would have an almost complete and almost
perfectly edited electronic copy for the printer. Being electronic, we
could ship suggestions for modifications and additions back and forth
over the internet (suggest Word). One person would have to be
responsible for the master copy and additions and deletions, definitions
as to what constitutes an S manufacturer or supplier, etc., possibly
John Foley or someone from the NASG.
just some ideas. Regards to all
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)

PS I will be visiting the Arlington VA area for about 10 days around the
labor day holidays. Any suggestions for visits to stores, available
layouts (scale or high rail), etc.?? Please advise off line. Tx.
Regards to all
Rance Velapoldi

Ed & Judi Loizeaux wrote:

>>From: Milorod@...
>>
>>It appears that you have uncovered a number of areas for improvement,
>>
>
>Yup, that appears to be the situation.
>
>
>>why don't you take some action to improve the list,
>>
>
>I suspect the latest printing will last a few years. When the current
>supply is depleted, then would be the time to put some effort into
>updating a new list.
>
>
>>I've always contended that if ones find fault with the work/efforts of
>>others then that person should be "willing to step up to the plate" & do
>>better!
>>
>
>Good philosopy, but in this case I've already expressed numerous ideas
>for improvement. I would certainly be willing to proofread a draft copy
>and make corrections/suggestions when the existing supply runs out. Of
>course my fundamental belief is that in order to successfully recruit
>scale-oriented modelers from other scales, the S scale products should
>be segregated from the AF/toy products. So far, I've not seen NASG's
>acceptance of that philosophy. Until there is a mutual agreement on the
>basic approach, there is sure to be unhappiness over the end result.
>Sort of like the unmoveable object and the irresistable force.
>
>
>>Constructive criticism is great, however at times it comes across as
>>"Bitchin"
>>
>
>Each item I commented on also had one or more ideas presented for
>improving
>it. I was not merely complaining. It just looked like it.
>
>"S"incerely...Ed L.
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20637 From: milorod@aol.com Date: 8/17/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] NASG's "S Trains Buyer's Guide"
Hi Again,... If there is an electronic copy of the list, could someone please
send me a copy, otherwise I have a fax machine & Scanner, and would be
willing to scan in the list, convert it to MSWord, and start the revision
process, as both Rance & Ed have suggested.
Regards,.... I'm off to the train show here in W.Palm Beach,.... later gator!

Milo


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20638 From: Tim Brown Date: 8/17/2002
Subject: Great Scal Model Train Show @ Gettysburg
FYI,

I was shocked to see, IMHO, how small this year's Great Scale Model Scale Train Show in Gettysburg was and I was very disappointed. I have stricken this show off my list of future trains shows to attend.

Regards,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20639 From: Chuck Smith Date: 8/17/2002
Subject: Scale and hirail.
I notice a lot of people make distinction between the scale and
hirail/AF poles.

I feel this is somewhat a misnomer because modern hirail is essentially
scale except for couplers and flange size..
I think a more accurate distinction is scale/hirail and AF.

As a hirailer I scratch and kit build structures, kit build some cars,
and run locos and cars from AM, SHS, PRS, Des Plaines Hobby (container
cars), etc. If you look at modern hirail cars the only difference is the
flange size and the ugly "claw" couplers. I am ready to start
converting some "claws" to Kadees. I will never become a rivet counter
but do want a realistic representation of a railroad. This means I
won't be rebuilding the handrail stanchions on my SD60.

Maybe this attitude would help defer some of the exclusionary attitude I
think I detect on the part of some scale guys.
--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 20640 From: Gerry Evans Date: 8/17/2002
Subject: Convention Door Prize
In Cleveland, I won a "blue ticket" door prize. Since the location of the door prizes was so out-of-the-way and no one bothered to post the names of door prize winners, I was unaware I had won anything until some kind soul approached me and handed me a plastic sack of basswood. I can't remember who this person was as the exchange took place at the end of the banquet when it seemed everything was in disarray and confusion. Who ever you are, "Thank you."

Now, however, I am in a quandary. I cannot determine what this door prize is. At first, since the sack contains an old Northeastern reefer roof, two wooden bolsters, two end blocks, and a butchered-up and over-sized piece of flooring, I thought I'd won a reefer kit. However, with no instructions enclosed and only about 3.5" of scribed siding, the contents would make up into a really odd reefer. The bag additionally contains 20 or so miscellaneous pieces of strip wood of various lengths and widths, and also some odd-shaped pieces of basswood. There is a little green dot on the outside of the bag with a price of $10 and a white sticker that says, "Tom'Service." Can anyone tell me what I've won? Is this prize something like the "mystery meat" my ex-wife used to serve?

All replies held in strictest confidentiality.

Gerry Evans
In Flagstaff


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20641 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/17/2002
Subject: CURVED PANEL
Someone was looking for a curved panel last week I believe. Look at
item#1758874814 on E-Bay. I don't know if this is the type you are looking
for, but it has no bids at $39.99. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20642 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/17/2002
Subject: CURVED PANEL UPDATE
There are about 3 or 4 of the same panels listed. The panel # is a #AF
26101 Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20643 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/18/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, August 18, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20644 From: Jim Armstrong Date: 8/18/2002
Subject: Curve Landscape Panels
If anyone in the Phoenix AZ area wants/needs All Aboard curved panels I
have four of them. They are in somewhat neglected condition, but I think
they're still useable and they need a new home! Only the track and
panels - no buildings. Jim Armstrong jarmstro@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20645 From: Jim Armstrong Date: 8/18/2002
Subject: Re: Curve Landscape Panels
Following up on my earlier message, I have 6 All Aboard panels, not 4.
Two are straight. Also, these are the Winter panels. The track is clean
and very little indication of oxidation. Jim Armstrong
jarmstro@...

>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20646 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/18/2002
Subject: Re: Great Scal Model Train Show @ Gettysburg
Dear Tim,
The show to be this weekend is "S" was at the Yale gym in New Haven. Robin and John Vanacore put on a great show and I know that we are looking forward to Next Years. Thank you Robin and John,

Don, Mike and Robin.


Tim Brown wrote:

> FYI,
>
> I was shocked to see, IMHO, how small this year's Great Scale Model Scale Train Show in Gettysburg was and I was very disappointed. I have stricken this show off my list of future trains shows to attend.
>
> Regards,
> Tim

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20647 From: Tim Brown Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: Re: Great Scal Model Train Show @ Gettysburg
Well, since you mentioned it...

I attended The New Haven show last year. It was a good show and entertaining. But here was my dilemma this year: since I already made a long drive out to the NASG convention in Cleveland, I didn't want to make another long trip so soon. I've also noticed that the farther northeast I go, the higher the prices get, so I balance the length of the trip to the number of bargains I would expect to find. I've found the best bargains recently at Gilbertsville and Hanover - local little firehall shows. IMHO, York isn't what it used to be, bargain-wise either, but it's not very far, so I go for the entertainment value, if nothing else. I don't really like Greenberg shows either - IMHO, the cost of admission is too high and they charge the vendors so much for table space, I feel it stifles bargaining. If money was no object...

Maybe someday this price spiral bubble will burst and I'll seriously add to my Flyer stock again while being entertained at shows both near and far. But IMHO, the price spiral is probably powered by baby-boomers like me, so I doubt if I'll see a serious price decline in my collectible life time.

Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Thompson
To: Tim Brown ; Robin Vanacore
Cc: S-List
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Great Scal Model Train Show @ Gettysburg


Dear Tim,
The show to be this weekend is "S" was at the Yale gym in New Haven. Robin and John Vanacore put on a great show and I know that we are looking forward to Next Years. Thank you Robin and John,

Don, Mike and Robin.


Tim Brown wrote:

> FYI,
>
> I was shocked to see, IMHO, how small this year's Great Scale Model Scale Train Show in Gettysburg was and I was very disappointed. I have stricken this show off my list of future trains shows to attend.
>
> Regards,
> Tim

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20648 From: pushpinss Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: New member
Hi to all. I just joined. I also just started to play with my
American Flyers again. Well kind of. They need some help and so do I.

I found 1 great website with lots of information and parts. But I
need advice on where to buy things. Where to go to get track,
accessories and most of all service for my engines and the parts.

Hope to hear from all.

Joe
Group: S-Trains Message: 20649 From: Dayna Warner Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: introductions at last
It was great meeting with those of you that stopped by our tables at the show yesterday. Thanks to the members of the Bristol and Connecticut S Gaugers for your feedback and ideas for future projects. I did get a chance to take a quick look at your layouts and do understand from talking with you about what you need so it won't be necessary to try to make the HO market fit into S scale buildings. Sorry I didn't get a chance to talk with Don Thompson as we have corresponded a few times and I know he was there. Doug Peck from Portlines it was a pleasure to meet you. We were pretty busy as we were also for the first time showing our new O & G scales structures.
Dayna Warner CEO
Trainstuff LLC
www.trainstuffllc.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20650 From: David Dewey Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: Re: New member
Joe,
Welcome aboard. We now have you in our clutches--you are addicted, and
we're the suppliers of the necessary fixes! ;-)
This group is a good place to get answers to fix-it problems. I might
also suggest the Dispatch magazine (shameless plug for my "Fixin' Flyer"
column) and the S Gaugian magazine (selfless plug for Tom Jarcho's
"Roundhouse" column). There are many suppliers, you will find most of them
at Paul Yorke's Website.
And now I have to go to work, sure does put a crimp in my train time!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20651 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: CLASSIC EXAMPLE
Here is a classic example of how you can get a raw deal on E-BAY if there
are not enough of the right photos. There is one that shows the true cond. of
this item. Yes, I bid on it. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20652 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: Re: Cincinnati S Scale Layout
Dear Paul.,
I found a new link for this museum.
Don
-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20653 From: yazfacts Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: T.C.A. / Hersey Park.......
Dear Group,
I am going to Hersey Park for the Labor Day weekend and I
hear that the Toy Train Mus. is fairly close. Could anyone in this
group tell me how to get from Hersey Park ,PA. to the Tioy Train Mus.
?? Please post or e-mail me any and all responces. Thank You.....Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 20654 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: Re: CJSS Fall-Get-Together
This years Central Jersey S Scaler's 21st Annual Fall Get-Together
will be September 20th thru 22nd at Christ Church Hall, South Amboy,
NJ. So far, the NASG and Banta Models have requested tables. We will
keep the lists posted on mfgs. and dealers who request space. Robin
will again be having an open house on Saturday afternoon at the SHS
warehouse. We now have three units. I will have Mike Greene update our
website later this week.
Don


bill banta wrote:

> Don,
>
> Did you get my request for table space?
> Also, please give me the dates again...
>
> bill b...
>
> http://www.bantamodelworks.com

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20655 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: "S" Fest cars
Since the upcoming "S" Fest is a gazillion miles from me, I was wondering how
I would go about getting the Fest boxcar. I currently have nearly every one
from 1974 but have never been able to attend.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20656 From: robert allen conner Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: Re: T.C.A. / Hersey Park.......
The easiest way is to go to your computer...find maps...enter the starting
point....enter the TCA address....BINGO....it will give me the directions
from my driveway to the end of my street 500' away...then to the next light
1000'....then to......Buffalo or wherever....print the map out.....I use
this all the time...I ask A client their address...type it in and go...Bob
Conner
----- Original Message -----
From: "yazfacts" <yazfacts@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 5:39 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] T.C.A. / Hersey Park.......


> Dear Group,
> I am going to Hersey Park for the Labor Day weekend and I
> hear that the Toy Train Mus. is fairly close. Could anyone in this
> group tell me how to get from Hersey Park ,PA. to the Tioy Train Mus.
> ?? Please post or e-mail me any and all responces. Thank You.....Bob
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20657 From: Bob Lester Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: Re: T.C.A. / Hersey Park.......
It's about 1/2 hour to 45 minutes down 283. The maps as someone else
suggested should get you there better then I can explain. While there,
make sure you see the "Choo Choo Barn" about 1/2 mile away, probably will
pass it on the way to the TCA. There is a nice operating layout and a large
train store. The store also has an upstairs, make sure you go there. You
enter the upstairs from another part of the building, near the candy store.

The Strasburg Train and PA Train Museum is there also. They have quit a
few train books upstairs. The train ride is short and expensive, but worth
it. The museum is expensive too,everything there is so be prepared, but
it's all quite nice.

You can make a day of it just between these places. Take plenty of film.

If you are coming via route 81, you have to check out Roadside America
also. It's in Shartlesville I think, along 81.
http://www.roadsideamericainc.com/


Les,

At 09:39 PM 8/19/2002 +0000, yazfacts wrote:

>Dear Group,
> I am going to Hersey Park for the Labor Day weekend and I
>hear that the Toy Train Mus. is fairly close. Could anyone in this
>group tell me how to get from Hersey Park ,PA. to the Tioy Train Mus.
>?? Please post or e-mail me any and all responces. Thank You.....Bob
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
>s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>---
>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.380 / Virus Database: 213 - Release Date: 7/24/2002



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20658 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: ATSF #3751
For your info The ATSF # 3751 is at Union Station in LA CA Today but
leaving this evening. Mike
PS: I may have the # wrong


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20659 From: robert allen conner Date: 8/19/2002
Subject: Re: T.C.A. / Hersey Park.......
Guys....Sorry I forgot about the Choo-Choo Barn and the Museum....The red
caboose used to have trains for sale....Like I mentioned before...I got A
ride of my life at the museum behind the "JOHN BULL" in an old coach....was
about 85 +-....Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 20660 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: Re: T.C.A. / Hershey Park.......
You guys better check your maps. Hershey is near Harrisburg off of Rt 81 /
78 and Strasburg in near Lancaster on Rt 30. About 50 miles between the
two. Roadside America is on Rt 78 about 20 miles east of where Rt 81 meets
Rt 78. Roadside America is just west of Hamburg PA. The PA museum at
Strasburg is the best. Only problem is they won't let you take any of the
Pennsy steamers home with you. Have a great trip.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Lester [mailto:ka3adu@...]
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 7:57 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] T.C.A. / Hersey Park.......


It's about 1/2 hour to 45 minutes down 283. The maps as someone else
suggested should get you there better then I can explain. While there,
make sure you see the "Choo Choo Barn" about 1/2 mile away, probably will
pass it on the way to the TCA. There is a nice operating layout and a large
train store. The store also has an upstairs, make sure you go there. You
enter the upstairs from another part of the building, near the candy store.

The Strasburg Train and PA Train Museum is there also. They have quit a
few train books upstairs. The train ride is short and expensive, but worth
it. The museum is expensive too,everything there is so be prepared, but
it's all quite nice.

You can make a day of it just between these places. Take plenty of film.

If you are coming via route 81, you have to check out Roadside America
also. It's in Shartlesville I think, along 81.
http://www.roadsideamericainc.com/


Les,

At 09:39 PM 8/19/2002 +0000, yazfacts wrote:

>Dear Group,
> I am going to Hersey Park for the Labor Day weekend and I
>hear that the Toy Train Mus. is fairly close. Could anyone in this
>group tell me how to get from Hersey Park ,PA. to the Tioy Train Mus.
>?? Please post or e-mail me any and all responces. Thank You.....Bob
>
>
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+

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 20661 From: Roy E. Plotnick Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: 343 Tender
.Anyone have a spare tender (any condition, body only ok) for a 343?
Thought I'd ask - Roy
Roy E. Plotnick
Professor
Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences
University of Illinois at Chicago
845 W. Taylor St.
Chicago, IL 60607
plotnick@...
office phone: 312-996-2111 fax: 312-413-2279
lab phone: 312-355-1342
web page: http://www.uic.edu/~plotnick/plotnick.htm
"The scientific celebrities, forgetting their molluscs and
glacial periods, gossiped about art, while devoting themselves to
oysters and ices with characteristic energy.." -Little Women, Louisa May
Alcott
Group: S-Trains Message: 20662 From: af21115 Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: Re: T.C.A. / Hersey Park.......
Its not that its a long way, but PA roads are notorius for being
horribly crammed with traffic. Officially the distance is about 40
miles +/-.

From Hershey take Rt 743 South to Rt 283 East. Take 283 East to Rt 30
East. Take Rt 30 East around the infamous Lancaster bypass, which is
perpetually under construction, on past the parking lot section near
the outlets to Rt 896. Take Rt 896 South to Strasburg. In Strasburg
RT 896 takes a left into the main part of town, and combines with Rt
741. When RT 896 splits off from RT 741 stay left on RT 741. PRR
Museum and Strasberg RR are about 1/4 mile up the road. Just beyond
Strasburg RR look for Paradise Lane on your left. Make a left onto
Paradise and 1/4 mile up on the right just past the Red Caboose Motel
is the TCA Museum.

TIPS: When coming off of the Lancaster bypass "expressway" stay in
the left lane when it merges back into old RT 30 Business coming out
of Lancaster then get into the leftmost lane. Stay in the left most
lane after the merge until you pass Host Resort and Dutch Wonderland.
Then get into the right lane as the next back up is at the Outlets,
and you'll need to make a right onto 896 South. You'll have a wait in
Strasburg, but its not too bad.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20663 From: robert allen conner Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: TCA...INDIGESTION
Hey don't forget...take the road out to Intercourse....Stop at the Good And
Plenty....Hope the motel is close By!!!!
their Shoo Fly Pie and Ice Cream is great....Its A fav when going to
Yofk...Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 20664 From: David Dewey Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: Re: TCA...INDIGESTION
Two Words folks-- FUNNEL CAKES!!!!
The local county fair is this week here, and while setting up the Museum's
booth, I checked it out, YEP, THEY"RE HERE!! Oh boy oh boy oh boy---don't
tell my Dr., PLEASE!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20665 From: don652@webtv.net Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: New URL
Paul would you please change my web address to don652@...
Thanks. Don Bitting
Group: S-Trains Message: 20666 From: Roy E. Plotnick Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: S-fest update
For the latest update on S-fest, see:
http://www.trainweb.org/casg/sfestupdate.pdf

For other information: http://www.trainweb.org/casg/sfest.html

-Roy Plotnick, CASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 20667 From: John Harvey Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: Royal Blue Tender
Does anyone have a Royal Blue tender or tender shell they would be willing to part with cheaply? I really only need the top with the coal load. Condition doesn't matter.

Kind Regards,

John Harvey
brigadie@...


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20668 From: William Porter Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: Link Coupler Help
Hi Folks,

Last weekend, Milo Rodriguez and I took our sectional layout to a local (Lake Worth) TCA show. We let kids run the trains and the whole thing is a hoot. We also had Paul York's trolley loop running so there is a lot of activity.

One of the trains we ran is my Royal Blue trailed by 5 New Haven passenger cars. It is a link coupler setup on all of the train. One or two of the links are not very free-moving. That is, if there is a bump (and with those kids driving, there were plenty) the coupler rotates upward a little and stays up. After a few bumps, the coupler is not coupled. Now one more quick bump to loosen the facing coupler and the cars come apart.

My question is: How can I make the link couplers move, up and down, more freely?

I searched the FAQ page on Paul's site but came up empty. I would prefer not to inject a liquid lubricant as those will dry out and gum up the works, someday. I can see no way to inject graphite powder as there is a tight fit and no clearance. Since most of my experience is with Kaydee couplers on my home (scale) layout, I really need a little help from my high-rail brethren.

I'm leaving town for a few days, so, thanks in advance for any answers, hints, suggestions or step-by-step procedures.

Later,
Bill Porter

wpporter@...

561 791 1781

15212 79th Court N
Loxahatchee, FL 33470


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20669 From: C. E. Smith Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: Re: Link Coupler Help
I have a couple of tricks that help.
1) Clean them with a little household detergent. Once they're free dpn't
oil them. It is not helpful to oil them because oil eventually gums up.
2) I cut a little "rake" angle on the hook that goes over the mating coupler
pin, so that if it lifts it has to pull the cars closer together.
These 2 things improve the reliability a lot.
Chuck Smith
NASG, RASG, TCA, TTCS, Chemung Valley Lines
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Porter" <wpporter@...>
To: "S-Trains List" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 8:22 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Link Coupler Help


> Hi Folks,
>
> Last weekend, Milo Rodriguez and I took our sectional layout to a local
(Lake Worth) TCA show. We let kids run the trains and the whole thing is a
hoot. We also had Paul York's trolley loop running so there is a lot of
activity.
>
> One of the trains we ran is my Royal Blue trailed by 5 New Haven passenger
cars. It is a link coupler setup on all of the train. One or two of the
links are not very free-moving. That is, if there is a bump (and with those
kids driving, there were plenty) the coupler rotates upward a little and
stays up. After a few bumps, the coupler is not coupled. Now one more quick
bump to loosen the facing coupler and the cars come apart.
>
> My question is: How can I make the link couplers move, up and down, more
freely?
>
> I searched the FAQ page on Paul's site but came up empty. I would prefer
not to inject a liquid lubricant as those will dry out and gum up the works,
someday. I can see no way to inject graphite powder as there is a tight fit
and no clearance. Since most of my experience is with Kaydee couplers on my
home (scale) layout, I really need a little help from my high-rail brethren.
>
> I'm leaving town for a few days, so, thanks in advance for any answers,
hints, suggestions or step-by-step procedures.
>
> Later,
> Bill Porter
>
> wpporter@...
>
> 561 791 1781
>
> 15212 79th Court N
> Loxahatchee, FL 33470
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20670 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: link coupler help
Link couplers must fall freely to stay coupled.

The problem is caused by the acetate plastic of the coupler. Over time,
the stearic acid mold release agent, that familiar white crud, migrates to
the surface and the plastic shrinks. Thus the joint becomes too tight.

The best solution I know is to spray some WD-40 into the joint and move the
coupler up and down and side to side to loosen it. A circular motion is
best, and a good deal of force may be applied. It may take some time,
several hundred repetitions.

WD-40 has beel maligned on this list, but it apparently penetrates and
helps the plastic to expand slightly, in addition to lubricating.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20671 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: S-Fest Box
Check the CASG website and register.

There are 4 styles to choose from, 2 Flyer, 2 SHS with 1 SHS with prototype
number.

John Griffin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20672 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/20/2002
Subject: Re: T.C.A. / Hersey Park.......
>The easiest way is to go to your computer...find maps...enter the starting
>point....enter the TCA address....BINGO....

Sure, easy for you to say. But he'll say "Boingo" because he spells Hershey
Park as "Hersey" and Toy Train Museum as "Tioy Train Mus." and Mapquest.com
won't know what the hell he's talking about!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20673 From: rodgers_carl Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: Re: link coupler help
I've heard that the white crud is oxidation of the acetate plastic,
and not stearic acid mold release. I was told by a tech at Dow, that
in the early 50' they used mineral oil on acetate as mold release.

He suggested a hair dryer and alcohol to remove the white residue.
Then you can lubricate them with Water Displacement test #40, (WD-40).

--- In S-Trains@y..., jarcho@r... wrote:
> Link couplers must fall freely to stay coupled.
>
> The problem is caused by the acetate plastic of the coupler. Over
time,
> the stearic acid mold release agent, that familiar white crud,
migrates to
> the surface and the plastic shrinks. Thus the joint becomes too
tight.
>
> The best solution I know is to spray some WD-40 into the joint and
move the
> coupler up and down and side to side to loosen it. A circular
motion is
> best, and a good deal of force may be applied. It may take some
time,
> several hundred repetitions.
>
> WD-40 has beel maligned on this list, but it apparently penetrates
and
> helps the plastic to expand slightly, in addition to lubricating.
>
> Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20674 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: Re: link coupler help NO WD40!
I have said it before and I will say it again..

DO NOT USE WD40 AS A PERMANENT LUBRICANT!

It WILL GUM as it ages. Period...

Use sewing machine oil. It will never Gum up.

It is cheap and readily available.


Carl

-----Original Message-----
From: rodgers_carl [mailto:rodgers_carl@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 9:34 AM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: link coupler help


I've heard that the white crud is oxidation of the acetate plastic,
and not stearic acid mold release. I was told by a tech at Dow, that
in the early 50' they used mineral oil on acetate as mold release.

He suggested a hair dryer and alcohol to remove the white residue.
Then you can lubricate them with Water Displacement test #40, (WD-40).

--- In S-Trains@y..., jarcho@r... wrote:
> Link couplers must fall freely to stay coupled.
>
> The problem is caused by the acetate plastic of the coupler. Over
time,
> the stearic acid mold release agent, that familiar white crud,
migrates to
> the surface and the plastic shrinks. Thus the joint becomes too
tight.
>
> The best solution I know is to spray some WD-40 into the joint and
move the
> coupler up and down and side to side to loosen it. A circular
motion is
> best, and a good deal of force may be applied. It may take some
time,
> several hundred repetitions.
>
> WD-40 has beel maligned on this list, but it apparently penetrates
and
> helps the plastic to expand slightly, in addition to lubricating.
>
> Tom Jarcho


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Group: S-Trains Message: 20675 From: David Dewey Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: Re: link coupler help
Hi all,
Interesting, "oxidation of the plastic" Hmm. It would be good to get an
engineering type to analyze this--Hey Tom R. what's your take, this is "your
thing"?
I have had fair success with the hair dryer trick, heat until the white
stuff liquefies, brush with toothbrush (not your wife's, use an old
discarded one!) and wiggle the H**l out of the link. This sometimes needs to
be repeated. While it is still warm, I spray some non-lubricating tuner
cleaner into the pin area to help flush out the stuff. I believe NO LUBE
is best on these, as they don't rotate more than a few degrees, and the
plastic should be self-lubricating, BUT you are also battling any corrosion
that has built up on the pin. This will be more so on the cad/zinc plated
pins and less so on the nickled ones.

I have yet to test my ultrasonic cleaner on these to see if that will work.

If you file the "hook" to have negative rake, that changes the pin-to-pin
distance, and I believe negates the effect, unless all the hooks are
modified exactly the same.

S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20676 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: Re: link coupler help
I have used Armor-All to clean the white power off. I have yet to have one
gum up. This may be to the fact that I am younger than Dewey & have not had
enough time to let it sit :) Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20677 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: Re: WAY OFF TOPIC
Thanks for posting.

Thorin

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:05:33 -0400
From: "robert allen conner" <rcon7@...>
Subject: WAY OFF TOPIC

I ran across this on the net ....I know it doesn't relate to S GAUGE....But
it made me LAUGH !!!!!

http://www.maritimeconsultant.com/tugboat.htm


Bob Conner



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20678 From: yazfacts Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: A.F. Track.......
Dear Group,
I recently came across a piece of American Flyer track. I'm
puzzled to what it is or does . The part number on the bottom of the
track is PA-10069 . It looks like a re-railer track. But the one I
have now looks totally different then this piece.Is this a old version
of the re-railer track. It does have two rails , so I know it's the
Gilbert S -Gauge products . Anyone have any ideas ?? Please post any
and all answers. Thanks in advance....Bob S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20679 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: links and WD-40
I do not like WD-40 at all and use it as little as possible. It does gum
up and can damage finishes too. However, link couplers I lubricated with
it have worked well for 10 years afterwards.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20680 From: Robert Wight Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: WD and Link Couplers
If I can take this one more step. On the real frozen link couplers I, like
Tom J. have found WD to help dissolve and loosen the link and then move it
up and down many, many times. What I do, to just place a small amount of WD
were I need just a drop. I use a small syringe and needle. I get mine at
fleet farms. I don't know where the city people get them. Just spray the WD
into the syringe and fill it up. Mark it, and it will last for years. Then
you can place just a drop when needed. I also have a syringe full of sewing
machine oil. I use it on my trains and all my firearms too. Much less
expensive then gun oil. Also a syringe full of alcohol works well for spot
cleaning off oil, WD ect. That's why i mark them.
Yours in Model Railroading
Bob Wight



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Group: S-Trains Message: 20681 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: Re: WD and Link Couplers/ SYRINGES
<PRE> If you know a Diabetic you might ask them for a couple of syringes. Some
drug store will/might sell them to you also. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20682 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: LTI SP 6-4800
Can anyone give me an idea of the value of a new in the box LTI #6-4800
GP-9 ? The box is a bit shelf worn but the unit is new. Thanks, Mike S.
PS: I'm going to list it & will consider offers off list


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20683 From: kc6ktj Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: Message #20682
The 2002 Edition of Greenberg's American Flyer & other "S" Gauge Mfr.
Pocket Guide.
The Lionel Section 1979-2002, provide the following about a GP-9, SP,
Engine with a similar identification: (4)8000 as a SOUTHERN PACIFIC,
GP-9 "8000" HARR#5, '87 Priced (N) at $165.00.

There are additional items provide see the following: (4)8002 as a
SOUTHERN PACIFIC, GP-9 Dummy "8002" HARR#5, '88 Priced (N) at $120.00.

The Peice No. LTI 6(4800) identifing an SP GP-9, Engine wasn't found
in the Lionel section of the Pocket guide.

The Peice No. LTI 48300 is identified as a SP "Overnite"
Boxcar, "HARR", '87 Priced (N) at 32.00.
The peice No. LTI 48400 is Identified as a SP 3-D Tank
Car, "HARR", '87 Priced (N) at 33.00.
The Peice No. LTI 48500 is identified as a SP Gondola
w/canisters, "HARR". '87 Priced (N) at 25.00.
The peice No. LTI 48600 is identified as a SP Hopper, "HARR", '87
Priced (N) at 25.00.
The peice No. LTI 48700 is identified as a SP B/W Caboose "HARR" '87
Priced (N) at 26.00.

I don't know what "HARR" stands for. Someone else maybe able to fill
that in?
But! It appears to be a set! Year 1978-88.
If! The foremension information is incorrect. I'm sorry. I Tried to
help.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20684 From: Chuck Smith Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: Re: Message #20682
"HARR" stands for "Historic American RR"

kc6ktj wrote:
>
> The 2002 Edition of Greenberg's American Flyer & other "S" Gauge Mfr.
> Pocket Guide.
> The Lionel Section 1979-2002, provide the following about a GP-9, SP,
> Engine with a similar identification: (4)8000 as a SOUTHERN PACIFIC,
> GP-9 "8000" HARR#5, '87 Priced (N) at $165.00.
>
> There are additional items provide see the following: (4)8002 as a
> SOUTHERN PACIFIC, GP-9 Dummy "8002" HARR#5, '88 Priced (N) at $120.00.
>
> The Peice No. LTI 6(4800) identifing an SP GP-9, Engine wasn't found
> in the Lionel section of the Pocket guide.
>
> The Peice No. LTI 48300 is identified as a SP "Overnite"
> Boxcar, "HARR", '87 Priced (N) at 32.00.
> The peice No. LTI 48400 is Identified as a SP 3-D Tank
> Car, "HARR", '87 Priced (N) at 33.00.
> The Peice No. LTI 48500 is identified as a SP Gondola
> w/canisters, "HARR". '87 Priced (N) at 25.00.
> The peice No. LTI 48600 is identified as a SP Hopper, "HARR", '87
> Priced (N) at 25.00.
> The peice No. LTI 48700 is identified as a SP B/W Caboose "HARR" '87
> Priced (N) at 26.00.
>
> I don't know what "HARR" stands for. Someone else maybe able to fill
> that in?
> But! It appears to be a set! Year 1978-88.
> If! The foremension information is incorrect. I'm sorry. I Tried to
> help.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 20685 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: Message #20682
Thanks guys,
That's about what I thought. I left my T&M Guide at
my kids place. Mike S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20686 From: Roger Delthony Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: Link Couplers (Not) Uncoupling
This relates to the question of link couplers uncoupling while running.
I also ran trains at shows where sometimes the consist included sections
of link coupler cars. An unplanned uncoupling is a nuisance at best and
a pain if it results in rear ending the uncoupled section because you
didn't see the uncoupling.

Several years ago, at an S-Fest, Dave Garrigues was selling connectors
that slipped over the pins on a pair of coupled link couplers and held
the couplers (and cars) together, no matter what happened to the
couplers, as long as the trucks stayed on the track. It's a simple idea,
works the nuts, and completely eliminates any problems with unplanned
uncouplings. It is intended for trains that stay together without any
need to uncouple them (as in continuously running setups), because you
have to lift the pair of coupled trucks off the track to separate the
couplers.

If I remember right, Dave was selling a strip of about eight connectors
for $1.

Roger Delthony
Group: S-Trains Message: 20687 From: Robert Wight Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: Re: Link Couplers (Not) Uncoupling
This uncoupling used to happen to me. Until I discovered all I had to do was
free up the link coupler like we have been discussing and also adjust the
level. It just doesn't happen anymore after doing this. I guess that is like
the real railroad, doing maintenance. That reminds me of the coal train that
went by my house the other day. One car had like a flat tire. It was oblong.
Was that something to see and hear. Now that needed maintenance.
Bob Wight



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Group: S-Trains Message: 20688 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 8/21/2002
Subject: Last Call
Friday noon will be the last time that I can accept
orders for American Flyer items from the Volume 2
Lionel 2002 Catalog, including the Christmas Car.
Specifics were issued in two previous announcements on
S-List.

Joe

=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

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Group: S-Trains Message: 20689 From: wintermutedm Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: 312- SIT tender tipping on curves... what to do?
I have a 312 SIT engine (the '47 version I think: tender is American
Flyer Lines) that has some "issues" with curves. It will run fine on
straights (even over switches), but when it goes around a curve (even
in super slowmo), it starts tipping just enough to pull the wheels
slightly off the track, enough to break electrical contact. I ran
the engine slowly and saw it do this. I tried detaching the tender
bar from the engine, and it still tips. I don't think it is the hose
for smoke pulling it, or the plugs for the wires pushing it
somehow... I just don't know.

Has anyone experienced this, and have a solution?

Thanks!

Denny
Group: S-Trains Message: 20690 From: David Dewey Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Re: 312- SIT tender tipping on curves... what to do?
Denny,
Check each truck, holding the tender upside down. The trucks should not
wobble from side to side, if they do, it is a sign that the fiber
shouldered insulating washer is delaminating. The only real cure I know is
to remove the rivet, replace the washer and re-rivet--however! I have not
attempted to super glue the washer back together in situ, which might be
possible, and a whole lot quicker. Has anyone attempted this?
S'
David D.
PS, once a truck is removed, often the center is deformed (where the rivet
goes) by being bent upwards. The area inside the "ring" that the truck rides
on should be flat, or even slightly cupped towards the track. The ACG
design is quite clever, as the 'ring" is actually the bolster side bearings
as found on real trains, and makes the cars much more stable than just being
supported at the pivot rivet (like Marx, etc.).
Group: S-Trains Message: 20691 From: trzp1800 Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: TV Land
Hi:
Are there any shows on the tube that regularly feature train stuff?
There is, after all, a channel for everything else.
Regards,
Ted
Group: S-Trains Message: 20692 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Re: 312- SIT tender tipping on curves... what to do?
I had a tender that did just what you describe. After closer examination I
noticed that the truck was twisted and it allowed the wheel to lift. Pretty
easy to correct.
Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: wintermutedm [mailto:dmerritt@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 11:45 AM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] 312- SIT tender tipping on curves... what to do?


I have a 312 SIT engine (the '47 version I think: tender is American
Flyer Lines) that has some "issues" with curves. It will run fine on
straights (even over switches), but when it goes around a curve (even
in super slowmo), it starts tipping just enough to pull the wheels
slightly off the track, enough to break electrical contact. I ran
the engine slowly and saw it do this. I tried detaching the tender
bar from the engine, and it still tips. I don't think it is the hose
for smoke pulling it, or the plugs for the wires pushing it
somehow... I just don't know.

Has anyone experienced this, and have a solution?

Thanks!

Denny



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+

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 20693 From: David Dewey Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Re: 312- SIT tender tipping on curves... what to do?
Ohh, Ken made a VERY GOOD point!! I didn't even think about it! I did,
however describe this in a Dispatch article (Shameless plug!).
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20694 From: pushpinss Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: activating trip for hay car
Where can one get the activating trip for a hay bale car?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20695 From: wintermutedm Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Re: 312- SIT tender tipping on curves... what to
Thanks guys! I'll check out Ken's suggestion first, then David's.

David: are there back articles from the Dispatcher somewhere online?

-Denny
Group: S-Trains Message: 20696 From: Ted Larson Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Vintage Tractors
> >
> > I was at the local Wal-mart Saturday and noticed Ertl 2 row corn
> > pickers
> > (tractor mounted) with trailers in 1/64th. They look good. I got
> > the
> > Oliver and passed on the Case. Look about 50's-60's if my memory
> > serves me.
> > Nice models.
> >

=====
Ted Larson

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20697 From: David Dewey Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Re: 312- SIT tender tipping on curves... what to
Denny,
Articles on line, Hmm, I don't think so, but it sounds like a good idea!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20698 From: The Reis's Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Blatant Sale of S stuff- final
I have the following remaining items to sell from a collection I bought a
couple months ago.

S helper tofc cars new in box, these cost about $6 to ship so $38 plus$6 is
$44 each

00179 nickel plate
00188 Chicago Northwestern
00180 Rock Island

S Helper PS2 hopper new in box $30 plus $5 ship is $35

00409 CSX (154) central SOYA


S Helper Cattle Car DGRW (36491) $32 plus $5 ship is $37


Lionel Flyer tanker 6-48406 Celanese $28 plus $5 ship is $33


One new box of HOMABED Roadbed from California roadbed company.

60 feet of roadbed 1/2 is for straight, and 1/2 is sliced for curved. This
sells for $49 from American models. First $35 plus shipping (8 pounds) can
have it.

Thanks

Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20699 From: Bob Lester Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: ON30 ? and also Greenberg books
I see discussions on converting ON30 to S-scale.

Can anyone explain the differences. I read the ON30 description on the
Bachman site. It basically tells me that it is narrow gauge O that runs on
HO track. I can't picture this.

A picture of the 3 together (O, ON30 and S, Maybe HO) would be helpful if
someone has a link.


Also, I just saw a "Greenberg's Guide to American Flyer, S Gauge, Volume II
" go for $11.00 on Ebay, is this that rare ? Just wondering cause I have
Volume I and II here.

Thanks, Les




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20700 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: AMERICAN MODELS HOPPERS FOR SALE
Hi,
I have two AM Hoppers with SCALE WHEELS C&NW #3304 CD
and Santa Fe #3312 CD Both are 3 bay I'd like $70.00 for both shipping
included. They are Brand New in the Box. One box has a slight crease on one
flap. Mike S.
PS: Contact me off list


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20701 From: Steve Blancard Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Re: ON30 ? and also Greenberg books
Bob,

Perhaps I can help with the ON30 question. I have converted Bachmann ON30 freight
and passenger cars to S.

First the freight cars. These are shorter than a typical AF freight car because they
are modeled on 1900-1910 period narrow gauge cars. Here are the dimensions of a
typical AF boxcar body and a ON30 Bachmann boxcar body:

Length: AF- 7.750", Bachmann - 6.625"
Width: AF- 1.830", Bachmann - 1.950"
Height: AF- 1.925", bachmann- 1.875" (not including trucks)

As you can see the size, besides length is very similar.

The passenger cars are similar to the Frontiersman passenger cars that typcially run
with the Franklin engine, except shorter. Comparison of a Frontiersman passenger car
with a Bachmann passenger car:

Length: AF- 10.5", Bachmann- 9.0"
Width: AF- 2.025", Bachmann- 1.975"
Height: AF- 2.350", Bachmann- 2.250"

The Frontiersman/Franklin is considered a bit ovesize for S gauge. But this makes
the Bachmann cars ideal for conversion.

The Bachmann cars come with HO gauge trucks that look very narrow on the cars, but
this is to be expected becuse they are based on prototype narrow gauge railroads.

In my mind they are a very good candidate for conversion for those looking for early
style rolling stock at a reasonable price. They are very detailed, plentiful and at
around $15-$20 for freight cars and $20-$25 for passenger cars, a real bargain.

The freight cars are easily converted to S by using SHS freight trucks or AF trucks.
This usually takes me less than 15 minutes to do. I have conveted passenger cars by
spreading the original ON30 trucks and using American Models wheel sets. This is a
bit more work but well worth the results.

Here are a couple links showing what I've done with the Bachmann cars:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Bachmann%20ON30%20Conversion/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Bachmann%20ON30%20Passenger%20Cars/

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/on3/on3.html

http://sgauge.homestead.com/JOHNRODGERS.html

Hope this helps,

Steve Blancard
Crustyfour

Bob Lester wrote:

> I see discussions on converting ON30 to S-scale.
>
> Can anyone explain the differences. I read the ON30 description on the
> Bachman site. It basically tells me that it is narrow gauge O that runs on
> HO track. I can't picture this.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20702 From: mlmarmer Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: New Train Shoppe
I received a card in the mail from a new train shoppe in Hanover, PA, called
Toy Trains Unlimited on 28 York St. 717-637-4717.

Does anyone in this group know anything about this shoppe. Has anyone been
there yet? He writes that he has one room devoted to AF.

Any feedback will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD
Group: S-Trains Message: 20703 From: Tim Brown Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Re: 312- SIT tender tipping on curves... what to do?
Hi,

You mentioned you didn't think it was the wires, but it could indeed be the wires. Are they supple? I've had this problem when I've used wire that was too stiff. I now use a very flexible wire I got from one of our parts dealers.

Try disconnecting the smoke tube and see if the tender wheels still lose contact. Your smoke tube may have lost it's flexibility. Also, try disconnecting the tender completely and push/pull it slowly by hand, observing the wheels. They should remain firmly in contact with the rails when going around a curve. If not, then the problem is probably with the trucks being sprung a little.

Hope this helps.

Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: wintermutedm
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 11:45 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] 312- SIT tender tipping on curves... what to do?


I have a 312 SIT engine (the '47 version I think: tender is American
Flyer Lines) that has some "issues" with curves. It will run fine on
straights (even over switches), but when it goes around a curve (even
in super slowmo), it starts tipping just enough to pull the wheels
slightly off the track, enough to break electrical contact. I ran
the engine slowly and saw it do this. I tried detaching the tender
bar from the engine, and it still tips. I don't think it is the hose
for smoke pulling it, or the plugs for the wires pushing it
somehow... I just don't know.

Has anyone experienced this, and have a solution?

Thanks!

Denny



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20704 From: gino restivo Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Re: New Train Shoppe
hi mike , his name is Ron Borsella ,nice guy to deal with he is
usally at the earleigh heights fire hall show ( TTOS ) and timonium
greenberg shows ....
recently retired .....and after many years started his shop

this store name , years ago was used by an older man, name
of charlie pullman , who was killed in his store ........
that was very sad to occur , charlie was a kind and knowlegable
person to deal with

stop in and see ron if you can , call or E - mail for the store hours
he sent me a msg and i don't recall what they were for thur-sat

i'm going to visit by next week hopefully , rt 30 is 1 lane 2-ways
going from balto , speed varies from 25 - 50 mph .... watch for
radar !!!!!!! around hampstead , lots of hills

have fun , Gino

-----Original Message-----
From: mlmarmer <mlmarmer@...>
To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, August 22, 2002 8:02 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] New Train Shoppe


>I received a card in the mail from a new train shoppe in Hanover, PA,
called
>Toy Trains Unlimited on 28 York St. 717-637-4717.
>
>Does anyone in this group know anything about this shoppe. Has anyone been
>there yet? He writes that he has one room devoted to AF.
>
>Any feedback will be appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mike Marmer
>Germantown, MD
>
>
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

-------------------------------------------
Introducing NetZero Long Distance
Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month!
Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20705 From: robert allen conner Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Re: New Train Shoppe
Speaking of Charlie...I remember first meeting him in 1983..He had A Union
Pacific I wanted real bad...Told him I would make him A deal...I would give
him 200 cash and A check for 800 which he could cash in A month...He could
then send me the set!!!!...He said ok..."EXCEPT take the set with you....I
will put the check in in A month"....We were good friends for years and I
was really saddened by what happened....He had A great shop then...Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 20706 From: David Dewey Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Re: New Train Shoppe
bob, for those of us who never knew, what did happen to Charlie?
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20707 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Hay-jector, Tie-jector, etc. track trip
Greetings,

I got my trip for these cars through Joe Haenn. I'm sure Doug Peck as
well as others carry the same item. I had to do a little adjusting as to
height relationship of the trip to the rail, but it works fine.

Oh Boy!!! It's almost train season again!!!!!

Bill Trefts


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20708 From: David A. Highfield Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Re: New Train Shoppe
I will investigate and report back. I'm 30 minutes away from Hanover.
Dave


----- Original Message -----
From: "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@...>
To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 7:55 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] New Train Shoppe


> I received a card in the mail from a new train shoppe in Hanover, PA,
called
> Toy Trains Unlimited on 28 York St. 717-637-4717.
>
> Does anyone in this group know anything about this shoppe. Has anyone
been
> there yet? He writes that he has one room devoted to AF.
>
> Any feedback will be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Marmer
> Germantown, MD
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20709 From: Bob Lester Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Re: ON30 ? and also Greenberg books
Thanks to those that answered. I'll have to get to a shop and check out
the ON30 stuff.

I don't remember the HO track being that close to S. I remember when I was
around 30 trying to play with HO and having trouble getting the cars on the
track because of the small size, but no problem with S. Maybe I'm off base
there.

I take it the engines can't be modified ? I'd like to find a GG-1 that I
could afford.

Les



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20710 From: TCS Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: Oddballs Decals web page back up an running - New sets added.
If you all been having trouble with viewing my web page, well it is now
fix. No more pop up ads to worry about. I have to buy some extra space
and bandwidth. So hopefully this will be much better now.

I have also added 3 new sets.

719 T&P caboose (1950's) Red, white and black graphics. Set will letter
two cars.

720 AKMD Arkansas Midland 60' highcube boxcar. (10-00) White & black
graphics. Set letters one car.

721 T&P caboose (1950's) White and black graphics. Set will letter two
cars.

Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-.
N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These
should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so.

If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N,
HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $2.00 for p&h. You buy this catalog once,
then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring
binder.

---
---
Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals
N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals for prototype models
26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054
Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@...
Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/
Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/
NMRA Member #121756
Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
MPHS web site http://mopac.org/
---
---
Group: S-Trains Message: 20711 From: gino restivo Date: 8/22/2002
Subject: what happened to charlie pullman is
from my knowlegde , he was in his store , robbed and throat was cut .......
from the info from police , their was no forced entry , and doors were not
locked , it was found he had aprox $ 18.00 cash on him , nothing taken
from store , register untouched

i don't know if anyone was ever found or jailed for this act

gino


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20712 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: Re: TV LAND-TRAINS ON TV
Tracks Ahead is about the only nationally
broadcast show which is back on some
"PBS" public stations. It came back
to the PA/NJ area a few weeks ago
on PBS channel 23. It airs in our area
on Sunday from 6:00 to 6:30pm.
Several hundred shows had been produced
with a mix of real trains and model railroads.
I had taped about 50 shows over the
years to watch when I retire in about 50
years at my present rate.

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:24:44 -0000
From: "trzp1800" <trzp1800@...>
Subject: TV Land

Hi:
Are there any shows on the tube that regularly feature train stuff?
There is, after all, a channel for everything else.
Regards,
Ted
Group: S-Trains Message: 20713 From: mlmarmer Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: Re: New Train Shoppe
Gino,

Thanks for the reply and information about the new Shoppe in Hanover, PA. I
will stop in, as it is pretty close to Germantown, MD and real close to New
Oxford, PA, where there are some great antique malls on Route 30. I knew
the name of the Shoppe sounded familiar to somewhere else I have been.

Yes, I remember Charlie Pullman. I got back into American Flyer trains in
1992 and purchased some great items from him, including a freight set in E
plus that went with the 21140 Northern. He sold the engine to someone in VA
Beach.

One day while going through all the stuff in his shop, I found a correct
control button for the Oil Drum loader that I purchased from someone in
Kensington, MD and I didn't realize that the button it had was the wrong
one. I was too new in the hobby at the time. I needed it and he gave it to
me at no charge. He had stuff everywhere in his Shoppe. He was great.

I believe his murder is still unsolved today and probably will never be
solved. A senseless act that somebody did. His train shoppe was isolated
from the road, in a small strip of 4 stores, making it a easy target. A
quick hit and run type of robbery that turned into a killing, as I believe
this person scouted his shoppe out before the crime was done. This happen
around 1995.

Thanks again Gino for the information about the Shoppe and remembering
Charlie.

Mike
Group: S-Trains Message: 20714 From: robert allen conner Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: Re: New Train Shoppe
Someone came in to his shop to rob him. In the process they murdered him.
The TCA was asked to put up A reward or something like that but they
refused. I don't know if the person was ever found or not. Bob Conner
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "gino restivo" <lastman@...>;
"robert allen conner" <rcon7@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] New Train Shoppe


> bob, for those of us who never knew, what did happen to Charlie?
> David D.
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20715 From: Jay Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: New Haven RR
Here is a real nice find. Digital picture gallery.
http://railroads.uconn.edu/locomotives/
Hope you all enjoy
Jay
--
Jay
Group: S-Trains Message: 20716 From: Roy E. Plotnick Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: Re: Subject: Link Couplers (Not) Uncoupling
>
>
>T
>
>Several years ago, at an S-Fest, Dave Garrigues was selling connectors
>that slipped over the pins on a pair of coupled link couplers and held
>the couplers (and cars) together, no matter what happened to the
>couplers, as long as the trucks stayed on the track. It's a simple idea,
>works the nuts, and completely eliminates any problems with unplanned
>uncouplings. It is intended for trains that stay together without any
>need to uncouple them (as in continuously running setups), because you
>have to lift the pair of coupled trucks off the track to separate the
>couplers.
>
>If I remember right, Dave was selling a strip of about eight connectors
>for $1.
Dave still has these - he was selling them at last CASG meeting - I expect
that they will be avaialbe again a t S-fest and at his table at
DuPage (Great Midewest Rain Show)
-Roy
Roy E. Plotnick
Professor
Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences
University of Illinois at Chicago
845 W. Taylor St.
Chicago, IL 60607
plotnick@...
office phone: 312-996-2111 fax: 312-413-2279
lab phone: 312-355-1342
web page: http://www.uic.edu/~plotnick/plotnick.htm
"The scientific celebrities, forgetting their molluscs and
glacial periods, gossiped about art, while devoting themselves to
oysters and ices with characteristic energy.." -Little Women, Louisa May
Alcott
Group: S-Trains Message: 20717 From: wd511 Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: AF Track
Re the article from Rusty Westermeier in S Gaugian, there likely
would be a market for new Flyer-type turnouts and track. It would
certainly be better than bidding on the remaining old rusty items on
Ebay.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20718 From: Bruce Papky Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: Activating trip for hay car.
I got one from Joe's Train Repair recently. Contact:
joestrainrepair@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 20719 From: pushpinss Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: activating trip for hay car
Contacted Joe Haenn, he had only 1 and said he couldn't get any more.
Doug Peck said they weren't made anymore.
Got 4 of them from RFG, who said he makes them and I could have all i
wanted.

Funny thing is only one person suggested RFG and he seems to have
every item i need. So thank you Dave. But what goes on here?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20720 From: Tim Brown Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: Re: New Train Shoppe
Hi,

I visited Ron in his new shop in Hanover this afternoon. He is selling off his own personal huge Flyer collection through his new store. I would guess if you want something, he probably has it. His Flyer stock and accessories for sale are very nice, most of it in original boxes and wrappers. He's a very friendly guy. If there is something you are looking for, all you need to do is give him a call. He will be stocking a nice selection of Flyer parts as well.

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: mlmarmer
To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 7:55 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] New Train Shoppe


I received a card in the mail from a new train shoppe in Hanover, PA, called
Toy Trains Unlimited on 28 York St. 717-637-4717.

Does anyone in this group know anything about this shoppe. Has anyone been
there yet? He writes that he has one room devoted to AF.

Any feedback will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD




S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20721 From: mlmarmer Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: Re: New Train Shoppe
Thanks, Tim for the message about Ron.

Sounds like a great guy, but I am sorry to see someone sell off their
personal collection of AF.
I am sure he has good reasons.

I will stop by sometime in the near future.

Mike
Group: S-Trains Message: 20722 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, August 25, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Yahoo Group Page
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/chat
Group: S-Trains Message: 20723 From: rj4010d Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: Link couplers
A member of the Miami Valley S Guagers uses a small rubber
band ,hooking from weight to weight and under the link.Use a little
hook tool and MUCH eaiser to install than the fiber pieces mentioned
earlier on this list
Group: S-Trains Message: 20724 From: Tim Brown Date: 8/23/2002
Subject: Re: New Train Shoppe
Hi,

Well, the answer is quite simple. The selling prices of all Flyer stock is at record highs. He has just retired and knows he can't take it with him, so I believe he is cashing in on a life-long hobby to pursue other pleasures. I don't blame him a bit. I think after spending as much time in the hobby as he did, it is time to tear down the layout, cash in the chips and make a life-style change. I have personally made life-style changes periodically in my life as well. For example, in '94, my wife & I sold everything we owned, quit our jobs and went traveling for the next year. No regrets. I'm sure his Flyer stock will find great new temporary owners. He sure has an inventory of terrific items!

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: mlmarmer
To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com ; Tim Brown
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] New Train Shoppe


Thanks, Tim for the message about Ron.

Sounds like a great guy, but I am sorry to see someone sell off their
personal collection of AF.
I am sure he has good reasons.

I will stop by sometime in the near future.

Mike



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20725 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: 312-SIT tender tipping on curves
The bushings that insulate the tender truck rivets from the tender floor
are probably shrunken and corroded by old smoke fluid and must be
replaced.

Complete instructions for this can be found in my Roundhouse column in the
Mar-Apr '02 S Gaugian magazine.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20726 From: Don Abrams Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: Re: 312- SIT tender tipping on curves... what to do?
Dave's suggestion to replace the rivet and shoulder washer with a new one is
right on. Also like he said, make sure the rivet hole isn't deformed and
flatten that surface the way it should be -- the round raised surface on the
sheet metal should be above the rivet hole.
While the truck is off the tender check the cross section view from the
front and rear. I've had several repairs in over the years where it looked
as if someone had 'stepped' on the tender causing the center of the truck to
be punched down and the side frames to be way too close to the tender floor.
Another problem with the '46-'47 side frames is they're too tall and the
slightest amount of axle hole wear can bring the side frames in contact with
the rails -- especially on curves.
The later side frames on the Hudsons and Northerns end just below the raised
round circle (journal), whereas the '46-'47 extend below this circle.
A purest would shudder, but I have ground off this additional material in
favor of better performance. I made it look like the later side frame and
then re-blackened the bottom surface.
Also is the drawbar connected to the engine with a shoulder screw? I've seen
substitutions of a regular screw here which makes for an inflexible
coupling.

Good luck with your project,

Don
Group: S-Trains Message: 20727 From: Roger Hinds Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: My train poll results.
For those that missed it. This poll was conducted to find out what
we all have in common with each other in different areas, as well as trains.
This may help manufactures and hobby shop owners as well as the rest of us.
35 people responded.

The number at each item represents how many people are interested in a given
subject.

1: Do you collect American Flyer trains?
A:Gilbert 20
B:Lionel AF 12 Passenger cars? 25
c:General Mills 9 Freight cars? 27

2: Are you into; Scale? 15
High rail? 20 (Several guys are into both.)

3: "S" Narrow guage? Sn3'1/2 (1) Sn3 (2) Sn2 (1) Sn 42" (1)

4: Is everything you make ready made? Some? 27 All? 3 None? 0
Do you make your own;
Locos? 7
Passenger cars? 9
Freight cars? 14
Structures? 28
scenery? 26
Benchwork? 26
Electrical work? 29

5: Are you an arm chair modeler? 3
In the planning stages? 6
Do you have a layout? What is the stage of completion as viewed by an observer?
Percent ---> 5 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
# of responses --> 1 3 4 6 0 3 2 0 1 1 3

6: Do you visit RR yards? 21
Ride trains? 23
Chase trains? 12

7:Into RR photography? heavily? 0 moderatly? 15 seldom? 9

8:Are you a member of RR clubs? Which ones?
(note; I should have added associations to this question) (I am sorry I didn't)
The replies are; NMRA 3
NASG 13 (I am sure the association # is higher if I had
asked)
Local clubs 22 (Mostly "S" clubs)
TCA 7
TCS 1 ( I Don't Know what this one is)
TTOS 1
TTCS 1
Prototype 1
None 3

9:Into live steam? (the ones you sit on top of) 3

10: Do you paint or draw trains? 2

11: Do you make wooden trains? 1

12: Into other scales? which ones?
Scale ----> HO O G N On3 15"
# of responses 7 7 3 2 1 1

The following is in response to non-train questions. Most are related to hobbies
and other activities in leisure time.


A:Are you just a pc program operator? 16
Use programs outside of windows? 13
Do you work on computer hardware? 19

B:Do you collect or build;
Model cars? 7
ships? 9
airplanes? 9
motorcycles? 2

C:Into remote control modeling? 4

D:Are you a stamp collector? 5

E: collect Coins? 5

F:Into Hot rods? 1 Race cars? 5
(Additions by respondies; --> Classic cars 5 Sport cars 2)

G:Play golf? 8

H:Do you have a boat you use? 5

I:Do you weld? 5 work with metal? 11 Wood crafts 15

J:What other areas of interest are you into?
Boy oh boy! This was a loaded question. The results are interesting.

First off, train stuff.
RR book collectors 6
RR lantern collector 2
ceramic villages 2 (some are close to "S" scale I find.)well detailed.
Live steam items 1
RR films 2

Other areas of interest;
Chemist collector 1
history buff 1
Tool collector 1
Camera collectors 2
motorcycles 2
Vintage car owners 3

Outdoor activities 11 catagories. One person in each catagory.

Beer can collector? 2
RR movie producer 1
Gun Collector 1

And finialy we have; 4 Ham radio operators and 4 into CB radios

I want to thank all that responded. I hope the poll result will help each
person to some degree. I hope you find it as interesting as I found it to be.

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 20728 From: mlmarmer Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: Re: New Train Shoppe
Hi Tim,

I am glad he is selling his trains for the reasons you wrote and it is
understandable to cash them in, as he feels it is time to sell them. And
yes, you can't take them with you in the end, so why not enjoy the money
they bring in.

I thought maybe, selling those trains, was a way to raise capital (money)
for the train shop to pay rent and bills for the Shoppe.

I hope he does well, as running a Hobby shop, especially just in trains, is
a risky venture, considering today's competition for spendable income.

It took allot of courage on what you and your wife did in 1994 and I am glad
to hear that things went well with that decision, with no regrets.

Regards,

Mike
Group: S-Trains Message: 20729 From: David Dewey Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: Re: New Train Shoppe
There is a secret fomula to making a small fortune owning a hobby shop!





Scroll down for secret!!





Keep scrolling!






Start with a LARGE fortune!!


Now where did I put my Lotto ticket. . . . .
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20730 From: mlmarmer Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: Re: New Train Shoppe
David,

There is a very old joke in the Restaurant trade on how to be a millionaire,
since running a restaurant is hard work and very risky, just like a hobby
Shoppe.

Start with two million and end up with one million before you sell the
place!

My hat is off to this man in Hanover, PA. and I hope he does well. I think
we all have that dream of running a train Shoppe someday!

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>; "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>; "mlmarmer"
<mlmarmer@...>
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] New Train Shoppe


> There is a secret fomula to making a small fortune owning a hobby shop!
>
>
>
>
>
> Scroll down for secret!!
>
>
>
>
>
> Keep scrolling!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Start with a LARGE fortune!!
>
>
> Now where did I put my Lotto ticket. . . . .
> S'
> David D.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20732 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: Starter Set in S Gauge
At the GATS Richmond, VA show last weekend, the
Virginia Central and Tidewater Divisions of the
Atlantic Coast S Gaugers together set up their modules
into a layout for the viewing public. The Tidewater
Division brought their four new modules loaded with
buttons for the kids (of all ages) to push to operate
numerous different accessories. The layout was such a
hit of the show that it was the only layout featured
on the Saturday NBC local 6 pm news promo for the 11
o'clock news, and was featured on the later news along
with an interview of a member of the Tidewater
Division. TV news loves the operating accessories,
and the expressions on the faces of children when they
make the accessories work.

[BTW, the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers began with 8
members in August 1998 and now has over 150 members in
5 Divisions, with other divisions forming. Led by the
Carolinas Division with its 35 by 35 foot modular
layout (and growing) with 2-T modules and over 60
operating buttons, S gauge is not only attracting
attention in this area, but is growing and attracting
new converts.]

One major roadblock to new converts is the lack of a
reasonably priced entry level starter set. The SHS
sets, starting at $299, are beautiful but scare off
people with kids just wanting to start out. And we
need more youth into trains!! What is needed is a
reasonably priced, entry level starter set. The
ACSGers probably could have sold 6 starter sets at
this show alone f they were available for under $200.

This got me to thinking about what alternatives there
are since Lionel does not seem to be interested in
getting into this area. K-Line currently produces AF
2-rail curved track (and could easily make straight
track as well) and has a good starter set transformer
with a universal (i.e., both O and S) track clipon.
K-Line also owns the old Marx 3/16 plastic car molds.
While these cars lack the detailing of AM and SHS,
they are attractive and durable--and extremely close
in size to the S gauge cars produced by AC Gilbert.
All that K-Line is lacking is a reasonably priced
locomotive. (Their new Big Boy is darned close to S
gauge and would make a great new S gauge offering, but
would not be practical for a starter set.)

They make several 027 workhorse locomotives that could
rather easily be re-scaled for S gauge using the
current drive train and re-tooled cabs, frames, and
wheelsets. One of these is their MP-15 diesel
locomotive, which is a really durable brute of a loco.

Therefore, I e-mailed K-Line and suggested that they
make such a set, with 3 or 4 cars and caboose,
retailing for no more than $179. I believe that this
is completely do-able, and maybe even at the $159
range (the 027 MP-15 retails for $119).

If you think that this is a good idea, why not contact
K-Line and encourage them to think (and hopefully
move) in this direction. They can be reached through
their website at www.k-linetrains.com or through their
director of sales, Nick Ladd, at
NLadd@....

Any thoughts?

Joe

The bottom line is

=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20733 From: Paul Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: New 'Roomy' Chat Room
I have setup a new chat room that I hope more of you will give a try.

Please visit in register for a login and password. It only takes a few
seconds to get one.

http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/forum/

Advantages:
1) This room will work with more browser setups, so far we have seen no
problems with any browser.
2) If you arrive late, you can still see what topics have been
mentioned, and by whom.
3) If you do have any login problems, I control the database and will be
able to get you squared away.
4) In tests people are seeing from 20 to 40 lines of conversation.
5) Yes to smiley faces

Disadvantages:
1) it's a change


For those who like to "Read the Manual" see....
http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/forum/chat/tutorial_popup.php3?L=english&Ver=L

As always this room is available 24/7 for any other 'chats', just clean
up the room, and put out the lights. (just kidding)
Group: S-Trains Message: 20734 From: royhoffman Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Set in S Gauge
Hi Joe,

I can't tell you how vital it is to have inexpensive starter sets in
S. I appreciate your logic in writing to K-Line as they are our best
bet right now (Lionel infuriates me like everyone else). Anyway, I
sent the below message to Mr. Ladd. I sure hope it, and especially
your letter works.

Roy

Dear Mr Ladd,

I'm the current President of the National Association of S Gaugers
with about 1800 members most of whom are highrailers and/or American
Flyer enthusiasts. It was brought to my attention that Mr. Joe Haenn
has been in touch with you regarding an inexpensive starter set for S
gauge. He listed several reasons why you could easily use your
existing O-27 molds and other components to produce such a set. At
the various train shows he attends, he attests to many possible sales
if the right train set was available at the right price.

I know of several children who would love to graduate from Thomas the
Tank Engine to another level. HO just does not fill the bill and most
kids end up discouraged and turn from what could be a lifetime hobby.
That hurts all of us in some way. Our 1:64 size is ideal for that
next step. The thing is that most of us S gaugers are aging and would
love to give a starter set to the kids in our lives.

Our organization would be very happy to assist you in any promotion
necessary to get you the sales that you desire for these sets. We
usually go to train shows to promote S gauge and we sell special cars
that Lionel produces for us. We just started running full-page color
joint advertisements in Classic Toy Trains. Perhaps you've seen the
one in the October issue. It shows our committment to promoting S
scale as the ideal size for model trains.

I hope you'll consider Mr. Haenn's proposal. I assure you that you
would not be sorry you did.

Sincerely,

Roy Hoffman


--- In S-Trains@y..., Joseph Haenn <joestrainrepair@y...> wrote:
> At the GATS Richmond, VA show last weekend, the
> Virginia Central and Tidewater Divisions of the
> Atlantic Coast S Gaugers together set up their modules
> into a layout for the viewing public. The Tidewater
> Division brought their four new modules loaded with
> buttons for the kids (of all ages) to push to operate
> numerous different accessories. The layout was such a
> hit of the show that it was the only layout featured
> on the Saturday NBC local 6 pm news promo for the 11
> o'clock news, and was featured on the later news along
> with an interview of a member of the Tidewater
> Division. TV news loves the operating accessories,
> and the expressions on the faces of children when they
> make the accessories work.
>
> [BTW, the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers began with 8
> members in August 1998 and now has over 150 members in
> 5 Divisions, with other divisions forming. Led by the
> Carolinas Division with its 35 by 35 foot modular
> layout (and growing) with 2-T modules and over 60
> operating buttons, S gauge is not only attracting
> attention in this area, but is growing and attracting
> new converts.]
>
> One major roadblock to new converts is the lack of a
> reasonably priced entry level starter set. The SHS
> sets, starting at $299, are beautiful but scare off
> people with kids just wanting to start out. And we
> need more youth into trains!! What is needed is a
> reasonably priced, entry level starter set. The
> ACSGers probably could have sold 6 starter sets at
> this show alone f they were available for under $200.
>
> This got me to thinking about what alternatives there
> are since Lionel does not seem to be interested in
> getting into this area. K-Line currently produces AF
> 2-rail curved track (and could easily make straight
> track as well) and has a good starter set transformer
> with a universal (i.e., both O and S) track clipon.
> K-Line also owns the old Marx 3/16 plastic car molds.
> While these cars lack the detailing of AM and SHS,
> they are attractive and durable--and extremely close
> in size to the S gauge cars produced by AC Gilbert.
> All that K-Line is lacking is a reasonably priced
> locomotive. (Their new Big Boy is darned close to S
> gauge and would make a great new S gauge offering, but
> would not be practical for a starter set.)
>
> They make several 027 workhorse locomotives that could
> rather easily be re-scaled for S gauge using the
> current drive train and re-tooled cabs, frames, and
> wheelsets. One of these is their MP-15 diesel
> locomotive, which is a really durable brute of a loco.
>
> Therefore, I e-mailed K-Line and suggested that they
> make such a set, with 3 or 4 cars and caboose,
> retailing for no more than $179. I believe that this
> is completely do-able, and maybe even at the $159
> range (the 027 MP-15 retails for $119).
>
> If you think that this is a good idea, why not contact
> K-Line and encourage them to think (and hopefully
> move) in this direction. They can be reached through
> their website at www.k-linetrains.com or through their
> director of sales, Nick Ladd, at
> NLadd@k...
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Joe
>
> The bottom line is
>
> =====
> Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
> 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
> Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
> Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
> American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
> Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
> joestrainrepair@y... Master Card/Visa
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
> http://finance.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20735 From: TWesthelle@aol.com Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: Smoke Units
I have heard that one way to attempt to resurrect a failing smoke unit is to
use WD40 as a cleansing agent, allow to sit and evaporate to remove any
sludge from the wick and tank.
Having never done this, not sure how to go about it, if this in fact is a way
to help induce more smoke again.
If anyone has this procedure down, or knows of another way, without tearing
out and replacing the wick, etc., please let me know, or Im sure others on
the list have similar interests or concerns.
Again, thank you all in advance for any help given.
Tom Westhelle
172 Dalton Drive
Oviedo, FL
Group: S-Trains Message: 20736 From: David Dewey Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: Sunday Chat
I'll be the County Fair Sunday night, staffing and then dismantling the
Historic Society's booth there, so will miss chat. "See" y'all next week, I
hope.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20737 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Set in S Gauge
Dear Joe,
I wish you the best of luck, but I foresee K-Line putting S gauge trucks under
their current 0-27 line of stuff which I think you will agree is the last thing we
need in S gauge. You will not end up with an S scale set, but a set with cars that
are too wide with cast on details that are oversized just like the aborted attempt
of "L" with there "S-27" that bombed a few years ago. I was told the main reason
that my parents purchased AF for me instead of "L" was the fact they were scale
trains and not stuff made for the perceptionally impaired.
I think a better choice would be Bachmann. Their On30 stuff is about the same
detail as might be expect at this time and I purchased mine for under $155 a few
years ago.
Don

Joseph Haenn wrote:

> One major roadblock to new converts is the lack of a
> reasonably priced entry level starter set. The SHS
> sets, starting at $299, are beautiful but scare off
> people with kids just wanting to start out. And we
> need more youth into trains!! What is needed is a
> reasonably priced, entry level starter set. The
> ACSGers probably could have sold 6 starter sets at
> this show alone f they were available for under $200.
>
> This got me to thinking about what alternatives there
> are since Lionel does not seem to be interested in
> getting into this area. K-Line currently produces AF
> 2-rail curved track (and could easily make straight
> track as well) and has a good starter set transformer
> with a universal (i.e., both O and S) track clipon.
> K-Line also owns the old Marx 3/16 plastic car molds.
> While these cars lack the detailing of AM and SHS,
> they are attractive and durable--and extremely close
> in size to the S gauge cars produced by AC Gilbert.
> All that K-Line is lacking is a reasonably priced
> locomotive. (Their new Big Boy is darned close to S
> gauge and would make a great new S gauge offering, but
> would not be practical for a starter set.)
>
> They make several 027 workhorse locomotives that could
> rather easily be re-scaled for S gauge using the
> current drive train and re-tooled cabs, frames, and
> wheelsets. One of these is their MP-15 diesel
> locomotive, which is a really durable brute of a loco.
>
> Therefore, I e-mailed K-Line and suggested that they
> make such a set, with 3 or 4 cars and caboose,
> retailing for no more than $179. I believe that this
> is completely do-able, and maybe even at the $159
> range (the 027 MP-15 retails for $119).
>
> Any thoughts?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20738 From: flyerfreak1986 Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: Train Whistle
Hello everybody,

I have a few loco's that have the whistle built into the tender.
I have the whistle and control button but I am unable to connect the
steam whistle control to the track/loco. My old manuals only show how
to install the billboard (which has 3 wires, while the generator has
4). Who out there knows how to connect the whistle generator to the
track/engine? Until I get it figured out, I will use my billboards.

Thanks,

Michael (aka the 16 year old)
Group: S-Trains Message: 20739 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: Poll
OK, who's the other beer can collector?

Steve
Group: S-Trains Message: 20740 From: jahoozdumm Date: 8/24/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Set in S Gauge
At a show in 1989, I had the privilege of speaking to MK (a VERY nice
person, btw) about the possibility of K-Line making S gauge
equipment. He was cordial, but dismissed the notion out-of-
hand. "Hardly anyone buys S gauge," was the reply. He seems to take
his cues about S from Lionel, and we all know what that leads to.

It's always possible that newer managers at K-Line have a better
grasp of the potential for S gauge. Perhaps the latest flurry of
suggestions will carry greater weight with them. I wouldn't bet money
on it, though.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20741 From: David Dewey Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: Sunday Chat
Funnel cake. . . . .
The guy at the booth now gives me a discount!! (really!!!)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20742 From: yazfacts Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Thanks......
I just wanted to thank everyone who sent me directions to the Toy
Traim Museum . I will be going there on Labor Day weekend.Thanks
again .You guys are the best !!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20743 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: CLASSIC TOY TRAINS & NASG
The NASG has a well designed advertisement
on page 13 of the October issue of CTT. The
ad will run for several issues. We hope you
will consider joining the NASG and
promoting our favorite size trains.

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn
Group: S-Trains Message: 20744 From: Bob Lester Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Set in S Gauge
I'm pretty new to this stuff, although I've been playing with trains since
1953 :) But I would think that Bachman would might be a good one to send
these letters to also. If the ON30 is close then the 027, it would be
easier to tool up some changes.

Bachman is also more available, at least around here. Sure, K and L are
available, but I see Bachman at Boscovs, K-Bee toys, Tous'r' Us, Wal-Mart,
K-Mart , etc. 10 times more then K and L.

Just a thougt,
Les in Harrisburg.



>At a show in 1989, I had the privilege of speaking to MK (a VERY nice
>person, btw) about the possibility of K-Line making S gauge
>equipment. He was cordial, but dismissed the notion out-of-
>hand. "Hardly anyone buys S gauge," was the reply. He seems to take
>his cues about S from Lionel, and we all know what that leads to.
>
>It's always possible that newer managers at K-Line have a better
>grasp of the potential for S gauge. Perhaps the latest flurry of
>suggestions will carry greater weight with them. I wouldn't bet money
>on it, though.
>
>Chuck F.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20745 From: rodgers_carl Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: MTH accessories
Are the Flyer accessories made by MTH considered "reproductions"?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20746 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: Sunday Chat
Gee David,
Go to the grocery store and buy a box of funnel cake mix. It's like 1.50 a
box. makes about six good cakes. Now there is a discount brother. If you
can't find it let me know and I'll ship you some boxes frome Dayton. Chris B
the Trainnut
Group: S-Trains Message: 20747 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: MTH accessories
In a message dated 8/25/02 10:50:58 AM, rodgers_carl@... writes:

<< Are the Flyer accessories made by MTH considered "reproductions"? >>

Yes, as is also true for their reproductions of Lionel Standard gauge.

The Flyer accessories made by Lionel (since they hold the American Flyer and
Gilbert trademarks and the original tooling) are "reintroductions", strictly
speaking.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20748 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Set in S Gauge
In a message dated 8/25/02 8:23:09 AM, ka3adu@... writes:

<< But I would think that Bachman would might be a good one to send these
letters to also >>

While one is writing letters, send a copy to Lionel, too. Like it or not,
they have the AF and Gilbert trademarks, the tooling, and potentially the
capital to make starter sets that no one else can duplicate. From recent
conversations with Todd Wagner (head of product planning), Bill Bracy, and
Dick Maddox, the current Lionel leadership is more open to doing Flyer these
days. The orders for the NYC passenger set and other rolling stock
(pleasantly) surprised them.

William L. Bracy, CEO and
Todd Wagner
Lionel L.L.C.
26750 Twenty-Three Mile Road
Chesterfield, MI 48051-1956

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20749 From: notcoldenough Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: Smoke Units
Re - fixing smoke units

Tom,
Check out this link. There are 4 or 5 smoke articles that should
help.

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm

John
Group: S-Trains Message: 20750 From: flyerfreak1986 Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: American Flyer Catalogs
Hello Everybody,

Currently I am trying to collect all AF catalogs from the 40's to
1957. So far I have 55,56, and 57. So my question is, are any of you
planning to sell AF catalogs? I am watching 5 (1949-1953) that end on
eBay tonight for $10-12 each but I was wondering if you guys had any,
I am currently low on resources (money) so I will not be able to buy
too many. I want to frame each one (whole catalog) and decorate my
train room.

Thanks,

Michael (aka, the 16 year old)
Group: S-Trains Message: 20751 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: THANKS DON & RON!
Don Thompson was complimented in
the October issue of CTT on page 23.
They mentioned how he rushed the diesel
from China to New York in time for the
Today Show which featured the World's
Greatest Hobby. It is nice that
Kalmbach recognized S in public.

On page 104 of CTT American Models has
an advertisement for their new
FM Trainmasters which I understand
are selling very well.

I was very pleased to see and buy the
Reading Trainmaster at the Cleveland
NASG convention. Now I can speak from
first hand (ownership) experience that this
is a great looking and running engine.

Since I model the Reading RR, I had
gone to the convention hoping to
buy a Reading engine and Ron sure
made my day and summer. We had our
NPSG club picnic at my house and the
Belfry Station layout and everyone
enjoyed the FM Trainmaster and it's
slow smooth operation. I will try to
load a picture on my website soon.

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn
NASG Secretary
http://www.geocities.com/glenn_ritter/belfry.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20752 From: royhoffman Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Set in S Gauge
Thanks to SHS and AM we have quality train sets now that fill the
bill as far as Don is saying. However, Joe said that he saw a need
for inexpensive starter sets and I wholeheartedly agree. We aren't
trying to make rivet-counters out of youngsters, but give them a
vehicle by which they can get a foot into S. When they get older they
can move on to the quality stuff, but there's a gap and if we don't
fill it, there won't be any kids to move up. It doesn't matter who
makes the starter sets, we have a vital need for them, period, IMHO.

Roy

--- In S-Trains@y..., Don Thompson <robin@s...> wrote:
> Dear Joe,
> I wish you the best of luck, but I foresee K-Line putting S
gauge trucks under
> their current 0-27 line of stuff which I think you will agree is
the last thing we
> need in S gauge. You will not end up with an S scale set, but a
set with cars that
> are too wide with cast on details that are oversized just like the
aborted attempt
> of "L" with there "S-27" that bombed a few years ago. I was told
the main reason
> that my parents purchased AF for me instead of "L" was the fact
they were scale
> trains and not stuff made for the perceptionally impaired.
> I think a better choice would be Bachmann. Their On30 stuff is
about the same
> detail as might be expect at this time and I purchased mine for
under $155 a few
> years ago.
> Don
>
> Joseph Haenn wrote:
>
> > One major roadblock to new converts is the lack of a
> > reasonably priced entry level starter set. The SHS
> > sets, starting at $299, are beautiful but scare off
> > people with kids just wanting to start out. And we
> > need more youth into trains!! What is needed is a
> > reasonably priced, entry level starter set. The
> > ACSGers probably could have sold 6 starter sets at
> > this show alone f they were available for under $200.
> >
> > This got me to thinking about what alternatives there
> > are since Lionel does not seem to be interested in
> > getting into this area. K-Line currently produces AF
> > 2-rail curved track (and could easily make straight
> > track as well) and has a good starter set transformer
> > with a universal (i.e., both O and S) track clipon.
> > K-Line also owns the old Marx 3/16 plastic car molds.
> > While these cars lack the detailing of AM and SHS,
> > they are attractive and durable--and extremely close
> > in size to the S gauge cars produced by AC Gilbert.
> > All that K-Line is lacking is a reasonably priced
> > locomotive. (Their new Big Boy is darned close to S
> > gauge and would make a great new S gauge offering, but
> > would not be practical for a starter set.)
> >
> > They make several 027 workhorse locomotives that could
> > rather easily be re-scaled for S gauge using the
> > current drive train and re-tooled cabs, frames, and
> > wheelsets. One of these is their MP-15 diesel
> > locomotive, which is a really durable brute of a loco.
> >
> > Therefore, I e-mailed K-Line and suggested that they
> > make such a set, with 3 or 4 cars and caboose,
> > retailing for no more than $179. I believe that this
> > is completely do-able, and maybe even at the $159
> > range (the 027 MP-15 retails for $119).
> >
> > Any thoughts?
Group: S-Trains Message: 20753 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, August 25, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page
http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 20754 From: David Dewey Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer Catalogs
Michael,
IF all you want to do is to decorate your room with them, I would suggest
borrowing some and making color copies. Modern color copies are excellent,
we use them for our musuem displays now, keeping the original stuff in the
archives so it doesn't get UV fade, etc. Maybe even some of us would send
you some color copies for your project!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20755 From: flyerfreak1986 Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Flyer Catalogs
hi David D

I'd much prefer buying the whole catalog, i like looking at the
original prices too ($25 for a set!!) but thanks for the color copy
idea. The whole framing idea was more of a way to display (decorate)
and to protect the catalog.

Thanks,

Michael
Group: S-Trains Message: 20756 From: The Reis's Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer Catalogs
Dan Olson at olson hobbies in Seattle has them all for sale and has a list
of prices you can at least use for comparison.

olsonhobbies@...

Another note is that he has done what you are doing, framed and put up all
the catalogues around his basement/train area.


Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa.



-----Original Message-----
From: flyerfreak1986 [mailto:Spots350SL@...]
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 11:47 AM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] American Flyer Catalogs


Hello Everybody,

Currently I am trying to collect all AF catalogs from the 40's to
1957. So far I have 55,56, and 57. So my question is, are any of you
planning to sell AF catalogs? I am watching 5 (1949-1953) that end on
eBay tonight for $10-12 each but I was wondering if you guys had any,
I am currently low on resources (money) so I will not be able to buy
too many. I want to frame each one (whole catalog) and decorate my
train room.

Thanks,

Michael (aka, the 16 year old)



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Group: S-Trains Message: 20757 From: trzp1800 Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Set in S Gauge, Way to go Joe!!
Joe,

What a great letter and fine beginning to an idea whose time is
coming. This is an open letter to all the folks who manufacture S-
Gauge equipment for all of us "train guys and gals" (the ladies
auxiliary of the ACSG club is an incredible asset to our club so you
HAVE to include the "gals"). My experience at the shows has
been
similar to Joe's. I talk to a lot of Mom's and Dad's who
ask how much
our equipment costs and I end up telling them it'll be $250-$500
to
get a 4x8 oval with a new set of cars and a few
buildings/accessories. The kids LOVE the accessories and they
aren't
cheap! The "glow" usually fades from Mom's eyes when I
say this.

So then I talk to them about how you can do it on the cheap, buy an
old Atlantic and a couple of boxcars or tank cars with a standard
caboose. We're still talking $100-$130 at this point and then
you
get a transformer and some track and make your own houses and you can
do it for under $200. But it's not the same Christmas experience
as I
had when a got my almost new trains. They were only seven years old
when my folks bought them for me at Christmas, not 50 years old and
needing a lot of work like they are today.

A new starter S-Gauge set will sell, if nowhere else, at our shows.
Because the parents see the kids having fun operating the accessories
and the kids can see what fun it can be, besides just looking at a
bunch of fancily detailed museum pieces displayed behind plexiglass
or behind rope barriers. It's REAL for them when they can operate
it
and share in the fun. The size of ours is a better fit for kids than
HO or N because kids' fine motor skills are still developing,
heck,
MINE are still developing!

So, it doesn't matter WHO takes up the idea, or if several of you
manufacturer's take up different aspects of the idea and one of
you
packages it up. I've seen products from most of the folks making
S-
gauge stuff now and all of them make useful equipment. Some more
durable than others, but then, the price goes up as the detail and
durability goes up. The important stuff is, and here's my $0.02
into
the discussion:

1. It has to be durable like the old flyer is durable. A friend and I
just ran my 343ac off my table onto my garage concrete floor today.
Broke the rear ladder off the tender and busted the front coupler. I
fixed `em and it runs just like it did this morning. Not much
stuff
currently being made can do that but that sort of ruggedness helped
my trains survive my childhood. I guess it still is!
2. It has to be a complete set; open the box hook it together
and "Let's run some trains!"
3. Keep the price under $200. Closer to $150 is better. You're
competing against electronic entertainment. That's $40 - $60 for
a
game and less than $200 for the game system. I've asked parents
if
they think their N-64 will still be running in 50 years like my AF
engines are today. If the price is comparable we've got a better
shot.
4. Include some coupons and a list of ALL the manufacturer's
making S-
Gauge equipment and accessories. This helps them see the expansion
possibilities. This could almost be accomplished just by listing
Paul's S-gauge page on the box!
5. Make sure the track system will support growth. How long did it
take all of you guys to start wishing your first layout had a turnout?

Sorry about the length. This one hit a nerve. Thanks again Joe, and
all the rest of you who are helping me enjoy rediscovering my hobby.

Regards,
Ted
Group: S-Trains Message: 20758 From: rodgers_carl Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: MTH accessories
If they are "reproductions", then why are they sold at TCA meets and
by TCA members, and they are not marked according to TCA standards?

--- In S-Trains@y..., rbubeck327@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 8/25/02 10:50:58 AM, rodgers_carl@h... writes:
>
> << Are the Flyer accessories made by MTH
considered "reproductions"? >>
>
> Yes, as is also true for their reproductions of Lionel Standard
gauge.
>
> The Flyer accessories made by Lionel (since they hold the American
Flyer and
> Gilbert trademarks and the original tooling) are "reintroductions",
strictly
> speaking.
>
> RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20759 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Mewzeeum
>Toy Traim Museum

No, it's Tioy Train Museum.

Sigh.


Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20760 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: THANKS DON & RON!
Glenn Ritter wrote:
>On page 104 of CTT American Models has
>an advertisement for their new
>FM Trainmasters

Is this true? American Models is building Trainmasters? Since PHM already
makes Trainmasters, and "S", as we all have had hammered into our thick
little skulls, is such a limited market, why would Ron Bashista produce this
arcane diesel?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20761 From: The Reis's Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Flyer Catalogs
I forgot before, but was reminded that Dan Olson has his catalogues and
other things up on his website

olsonhobbies.com


eric reis
Kenmore, Wa.



-----Original Message-----
From: flyerfreak1986 [mailto:Spots350SL@...]
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 2:22 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Flyer Catalogs


hi David D

I'd much prefer buying the whole catalog, i like looking at the
original prices too ($25 for a set!!) but thanks for the color copy
idea. The whole framing idea was more of a way to display (decorate)
and to protect the catalog.

Thanks,

Michael


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Group: S-Trains Message: 20762 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Starter set
I don't know, would a set using the MARX cars work.

A few years ago, ERTL came out with the Farm Country set. It was all new tooling, but on a level of what the MARX would be. That sure didn't sell on the numbers they needed.

My point here is, could K-Line do it and not need volume to make it worth doing? Could they do small runs, and still have it cost effective? They would have to make trucks. What sort of coupler would they use?

Clearly someone at ERTL thought a train to go with the tractors and farm equipment would sell. But they scraped the idea and later went to selling HO to go with them even with HO being smaller. (I wonder what they did with the train tooling?)

In any case, I bet their lack of success has not helped make others want in.

jfred





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20763 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: MTH accessories
In a message dated 8/25/02 8:38:30 PM, rodgers_carl@... writes:

<< If they are "reproductions", then why are they (sic., MTH accesories) sold
at TCA meets and by TCA members, and they are not marked according to TCA
standards? >>

According to TCA rules, a piece is marked with an orange sticker when it is
an ORIGINAL piece that has been restored or has reproduction parts used as
replacements for original parts. An all new piece with new manufacturing
lables, a new stock or model number, a new box, a can motor, etc. is just
that -- a brand new piece. Clearly they are copies ("reproductions" or
'reissues") of an original, but are easily distinguishable by labling,
packaging, paint appearance, and modes of manufacturing not practiced 50+
years ago.

BTW, any member of this list should be able to tell original Gilbert from
Flyonel copies (reissues) at about four feet's distance. If you can't, you've
got a problem. :-)

Hope this helps.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20764 From: Chuck Smith Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] MHRy Weekend Report
Ken, I like your attitude!

mhry wrote:
>
(Snip)
> As a point of clarification, here in Minnesota, S Scale railroads are built to the 1:64 or S > Scale. If you have rail height, coupler size or rail width phobias, leave them home because > we don't spent much time fussing about that sort of thing.
>
> Best wishes for a great weekend whatever your ratio may be.
>
> Ken

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 20765 From: jahoozdumm Date: 8/25/2002
Subject: Re: Starter set
jfred wrote:

>I don't know, would a set using the MARX cars work.

Marx made a couple of plastic-shelled cars in their "medium quality"
(per Greenberg's Guide to Marx) line, a boxcar and a livestock car
that are, for all intents and purposes, S scale, right down to the
ladders and handgrabs. Only the trucks (8 wheel versions) or
wheelsets (4 wheel versions) were 0 gauge. Cabeese in the same line
were slightly large, but the doorways were S scale. Marx did no S
scale/0 gauge locos, however. Completely new tooling would be needed
there.

>A few years ago, ERTL came out with the Farm Country set. It was all
>new tooling, but on a level of what the MARX would be.

Well, not exactly. Something the ERTL set lacked was Marx's
durability. The power truck on the guardrail-less GP35 was not
very... er, robust, and the plastics used were a bit brittle.

>That sure didn't sell on the numbers they needed.

A major part of the problem was that ERTL made the sets available to
a very limited market (in the midwest only, if memory serves.) It was
a self-defeating plan. I looked for them, but couldn't find a set in
Cally-fornee.

Another problem with the ERTL set is that a battery powered loco is
typically cumbersome to operate. Mattel has offered a battery
operated trainset for the last two Christmas seasons that has done
very well, because the loco can be operated by handheld infrared
remote control. The $40 set has the train, track, accessories for
loading and unloading Hot Wheels cars to a loadable "car hauler"
traincar, and other accessory pieces. The loco is very fanciful,
being a wild morphing of steam and diesel, but it works.

Apparently, there has been a new wave of hobbyists "hatched" over the
last couple of years that are under the impression that suggesting a
new S gauge "starter set" is a recent idea. It is not. MANY letters
regarding S gauge/scale starter sets (and other excellent ideas) have
been sent to Lionel, K-line, MTH, and I dare say probably Atlas,
Bachmann, Life-Like, etc. all during AF's current sorry situation,
IOW, for the last several decades. Nothing new there. I'm not trying
to discourage any new letters, but realize it's been done many times
already.

Actually, a more open-minded company that has not been jaded in their
thinking about toy trains might be Mattel. They've made several
attempts at building toy trains over the years, with limited success.
Perhaps someone could convince them that their problem has been that
they haven't made trains in the right scale yet. A Mattel 1/64th
scale trainset, done properly, not too expensive, not too cheap
(their last effort, like the ERTL offering, was a bit too cheap),
might sell like... well, like Hot Wheels.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20766 From: royhoffman Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: Starter set
> Apparently, there has been a new wave of hobbyists "hatched" over
the
> last couple of years that are under the impression that suggesting
a
> new S gauge "starter set" is a recent idea. It is not. MANY letters
> regarding S gauge/scale starter sets (and other excellent ideas)
have
> been sent to Lionel, K-line, MTH, and I dare say probably Atlas,
> Bachmann, Life-Like, etc. all during AF's current sorry situation,
> IOW, for the last several decades. Nothing new there. I'm not
trying
> to discourage any new letters, but realize it's been done many
times
> already.
>
Yeah, but we can't give up!
The thing is that the times and conditions change. This includes the
train market. The impact of Thomas has been tremendous. I'm sure we
all know of toddlers who are completelly enamored by him and his
friends. The time to catch them is that time when they graduate from
Thomas and want to take the next step. The same age that we were when
our parents bought us our first AF set, for instance. My dad didn't
have a lot of extra money so he bought starter sets for me, but that
was enough to keep me going for the next 51 years.

What goes around, comes around and the interest showed by kids at
those train shows was engendered by Thomas. Let's keep trying!

Roy
Group: S-Trains Message: 20767 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: LTI AF GPs under TMCC
AF friends:

This http was posted by Jim Battaglia over on the O Gauge Railroading board.
Therein one will find a nice description of how to convert Flyonel GPs to
enable their operation under TMCC. I believe that the same route could be
used to convert the PAs, too. Some one else may have posted this site before,
but I believe that this may be "news" to many.

http://www.tuveson.com/LCRU/AFGPlcru/AFGPTMCC.htm

Have fun.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20768 From: mlmarmer Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer Catalogs
Michael,

When you did frame those catalog's, have the frame shop or where ever you
get the glass, in case this is a do it yourself project, install non-glare
and UV protected glass.

Also old magazine ads of Flyer are great to frame. Great artwork like those
catalog covers.

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD
----- Original Message -----
From: "flyerfreak1986" <Spots350SL@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 2:47 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] American Flyer Catalogs


> Hello Everybody,
>
> Currently I am trying to collect all AF catalogs from the 40's to
> 1957. So far I have 55,56, and 57. So my question is, are any of you
> planning to sell AF catalogs? I am watching 5 (1949-1953) that end on
> eBay tonight for $10-12 each but I was wondering if you guys had any,
> I am currently low on resources (money) so I will not be able to buy
> too many. I want to frame each one (whole catalog) and decorate my
> train room.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael (aka, the 16 year old)
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20769 From: David Dewey Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer Catalogs
This is exactly why I suggested hanging color copies, any damage that
happens, only happens to the copy. Plus, you can still browse through your
catalog without having to take it down from the wall! The copies are so good
nowadays that they even reproduce any stains or even shadows from folds on
the original.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20770 From: rapidrail1 Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: New Photos on Web Page
Hi All,

I have posted new photos on the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers web page.
On the Virginia Central Divison page there are photos of the recent
Richmond GATS show. On the Delaware Division page there is a photo
of their first operation of their new modules at Seaside Hobbies open
house. Check them out at http://sgauge.homestead.com/acsg.html

Wayne Beachy
Virginia Central Division
Atlantic Coast S Gaugers
Group: S-Trains Message: 20771 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Reply from Nick Ladd
I got the following reply from Nick Ladd of K-Line.
It looks like it will be up to S gaugers to show that
there is (or is not) a demand for these starter sets.

<Thank you for your suggestions. We have looked at
<the old Marx cars with an eye to using them with S
<gauge trucks, but as of now there are no plans to
<produce them. Many kind folks like yourself are
<hopeful that we do, but we are not convinced that the
<possibility would be attractive to the S gauge fans
<and we are uncertain of the sales potential. As I
<mentioned, we have considered it, but that's all
<there is for now.
<
<Nick Ladd



=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

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Group: S-Trains Message: 20772 From: David Dewey Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: Reply from Nick Ladd
OK, Wild hare idea here!!
The Marx cattle car works wonderfully with AF trucks under--you do have
to file the bottom of the ends about 1/8" to clear the coupler, and drill
out the floor a bit to fit the AF rivet. How about some group seeing if
they'll produce a car for an S event?? You'd have to get trucks from an AF
vendor, and probably do the filing (with a fixture, a quick thing to do).
Then they'd at least get an idea of the "possible demand" for S!
S'
David D.

PS While we are on the subject of other stuff that is actually S, there is a
L made double-door boxcar that seems to be nearly "nuts on." And that is a
car that isn't currently available AFAIK in S. Sometimes I wonder if L even
knows their own product line!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20773 From: David Dewey Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Marketing question-vintage die-cast cars
Hi all,
Hope this doesn't seem too comercial, but, I have a chance to acquire some
NOS Chevron die-cast automobiles, the '39 Chevy pickup w/oil cans and the
'20 model T Ford "Red Crown" gasoline truck, maybe some others too. Is
there a perceived demand for these in the $6 -$7 price range?
Thanks!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20774 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: Reply from Nick Ladd
There are a couple of "L" gons that work real well also. They are pretty
cheap if you can find them. They don't seem to be very popular with the "L"
guys I usually find them under the tables in the junk boxes.
Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: David Dewey [mailto:djdewey@...]
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 3:33 PM
To: S Trains; Joseph Haenn
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Reply from Nick Ladd


OK, Wild hare idea here!!
The Marx cattle car works wonderfully with AF trucks under--you do have
to file the bottom of the ends about 1/8" to clear the coupler, and drill
out the floor a bit to fit the AF rivet. How about some group seeing if
they'll produce a car for an S event?? You'd have to get trucks from an AF
vendor, and probably do the filing (with a fixture, a quick thing to do).
Then they'd at least get an idea of the "possible demand" for S!
S'
David D.

PS While we are on the subject of other stuff that is actually S, there is a
L made double-door boxcar that seems to be nearly "nuts on." And that is a
car that isn't currently available AFAIK in S. Sometimes I wonder if L even
knows their own product line!


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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+

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 20775 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Attaching Track
Question, How do you fasten track to homasote and or styrofoam or
other similar surfaces?

Saw some pictures of a styrofoam layout the other day but couldn't
see how the track was attached. Ask the experts I always say.
Ken

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 20776 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: Reply from Nick Ladd
In a message dated 8/26/02 2:32:44 PM, joestrainrepair@... writes:

<< Many kind folks like yourself are hopeful that we do, but we are not
convinced that the possibility would be attractive to the S gauge fans and we
are uncertain of the sales potential. >>

I believe that Nick has it correct. I know that I would never purchase such
"Frankentrains" for myself or any youngster I cared about.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20777 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer Catalogs
Dave,

Have you considered photocopying those Hawaiian shirts you wear? That way you don't
have to worry about the original fading in the wash. Sorry - couldn't resist.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


David Dewey wrote:

> This is exactly why I suggested hanging color copies, any damage that
> happens, only happens to the copy. Plus, you can still browse through your
> catalog without having to take it down from the wall! The copies are so good
> nowadays that they even reproduce any stains or even shadows from folds on
> the original.
> S'
> David D.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 20778 From: John Foley Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Marketing question-vintage die-cast cars
Hi David

Sounds like something I would buy.
John


At 12:38 PM 8/26/02 -0700, David Dewey wrote:
>Hi all,
>Hope this doesn't seem too comercial, but, I have a chance to acquire some
>NOS Chevron die-cast automobiles, the '39 Chevy pickup w/oil cans and the
>'20 model T Ford "Red Crown" gasoline truck, maybe some others too. Is
>there a perceived demand for these in the $6 -$7 price range?
>Thanks!
>S'
>David D.
>
>
>To see or post Photos visit
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
>or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
>To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 20779 From: Chuck Smith Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: Reply from Nick Ladd
I have built up quite a fleet of Lionel O27 boxcars. They scale
perfectly to S except the ladder rungs are a bit long. There started
life as 6014 and later 90145 boxcars. Lately I've seen newer ones in
7xxx numbers. They are excellent for sound cars because they hold a 2"
speaker easily. For sound cars I have a Conrail with a horn, and an E-L
with a whistle, and one I have repainted to PRR with a diesel horn that
I pull behind a hornless diesel.

David Dewey wrote:
>
> OK, Wild hare idea here!!
> The Marx cattle car works wonderfully with AF trucks under--you do have
> to file the bottom of the ends about 1/8" to clear the coupler, and drill
> out the floor a bit to fit the AF rivet. How about some group seeing if
> they'll produce a car for an S event?? You'd have to get trucks from an AF
> vendor, and probably do the filing (with a fixture, a quick thing to do).
> Then they'd at least get an idea of the "possible demand" for S!
> S'
> David D.
>
> PS While we are on the subject of other stuff that is actually S, there is a
> L made double-door boxcar that seems to be nearly "nuts on." And that is a
> car that isn't currently available AFAIK in S. Sometimes I wonder if L even
> knows their own product line!
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 20780 From: rapidrail1 Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: ACSG web page correction
Opps,

Here is the correct url address for the ACSG web page.
http://sgauge.homestead.com/acsgindex.html

Wayne Beachy
Group: S-Trains Message: 20781 From: Roger Hinds Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: Train Whistle
From what I gathered in the past answers. The train whistle will just buzz in
an annoying manner. You need the button with the whistle generator built on it.
Did anyone figure out how to improve on this whistle. I also have one.
It would be nice if I could also make mine sound good also.

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 20782 From: Gerry Evans Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Track Nailing Tool
I bought an ingenious little tool at a swap meet over the weekend. It is called the Gandy Dancer Track Nailing Tool. Cost $3. Has only one moving part and a rubber band for propulsion. I believe the directions for its use will best explain its function.

1. Pick up a "spike" (nail) with the exposed magnetic end of the rod. 2. Pull top loop up so nail is halfway into the tube. 3. Position the exposed point of the nail in the hole in the tie. 4. Pull loop another 1/2" keeping nail centered in the tie hole (The tool should be kept vertical when in use.). 5. Let loose of the loop, allowing the inner rod to snap down onto the nail head. A second snap may be necessary t sink the nail to the correct level.

The good news is that this tool would be exceedingly well-suited for nailing down any type of track. It could be used with scale flex track, Gargraves, or AF. The bad news is that it would not be suitable for spiking rail because you, per my assessment, would not be able to control the spike position using the above stated method. If the spike were started/positioned next to the rail, then this tool might be of some use. It is extremely precise and its use would avoid any chance of hitting the rail with a hammer. It would also eliminate the need for a nail set tool.

The rest of the bad news is that they cut off the street address when packaging the tool in its wrapper. My net searches have all come up empty. Here's what I know. The tool is made by Crossbuck Industries, A Division of Graphics House. They are located in Phoenix, AZ 85068-6405. That's it. If you see one, I'd recommend your buying it. The tool has the potential for many uses around the house other than model railroading.

Gerry Evans
In Flagstaff


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20783 From: lou342ac Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Train Land Rumor
During one of my long winded conversations at a train show several
years ago, a reputable dealer told me that Ertl had entered into a
fairly serious discussion with Lionel to either buy or license
the 'American Flyer' name. The deal never went any where as Lionel
price was just to high (over $1,000,000). Is this just a rumor?

The interesting part, if true, Lionel puts a pretty high price on a
product line they seem to have little interest in. They also seem to
manufacture just enough to scare off any competitors by saying, look,
we make it but there's no market to buy it.

A few curious thoughts.
Lou
Group: S-Trains Message: 20784 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: STARTER SET
The ERTL set was nationwide through
Tru-Value hardware stores next to
an N scale set that sat on the Christmas tree
branches. The ERTL set sold for 49.95
but did not sell well and was brought out
of storage for 3 years until I bought the
last set locally (Pennsylvania) for $30.
Scenery Unlimited still has them listed
at $49.95.

Glenn

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 04:51:55 -0000
From: "jahoozdumm" <eighthmile@...>
Subject: Re: Starter set

jfred wrote:

>A few years ago, ERTL came out with
>the Farm Country set. It was all
>new tooling, but on a level of what
>the MARX would be.

Well, not exactly. Something the ERTL set lacked was Marx's
durability. The power truck on the guardrail-less GP35 was not
very... er, robust, and the plastics used were a bit brittle.

>That sure didn't sell on the numbers they needed.

A major part of the problem was that ERTL
made the sets available to a very limited
market (in the midwest only, if memory serves.)
It was a self-defeating plan. I looked for
them, but couldn't find a set in Cally-fornee.

Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20785 From: David Dewey Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: Train Land Rumor
The Ertl sets suffered, IMHO, from being too "toylike"--besides being
battery operated. They made the caboose so you could take the top off and
"play" with the figures inside, same w/ the loco cab. I did see them out
here (California) but bought mine AFTER Christmas for something like $13 a
set.
Also, Ertl never had anything else to go with the set, even when they were
new. I think if they had at least sold extra track, they might have done
better. Kids get tired of around and around in circles, especially with no
remote control. I think I just hit on the big problem w/ that set, no
control! Even my nephews liked to speed up and slow down the trains, just to
show that they controlled it.
Hmmm.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20786 From: William Porter Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Link Coupler Help and The Seasons
Hi Gents,

Thanks for the help. I just returned from a short trip and found 17 replies. Most were to the list, but a few folks sent their ideas directly to me. I'll give the ideas a try and let you know the results.

Also, I too live in South Florida and Winter here is about 2 days long in the really cold years. I actually saw it snow in Miami-Dade county the first full Winter I lived down here. For me, Summer (that lasts 363.3 or so days) is the train season as I avoid the hot sun as much as possible. If only I could have a basement....

Later,
Bill Porter

wpporter@...

561 791 1781

15212 79th Court N
Loxahatchee, FL 33470


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20787 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: LTI AF GPs under TMCC
RB,

PAs are on the to do list as is the new American Models Trainmaster Diesel
and a 342 with electrocouplers.

Check out the AF Steam Engine conversion too, at:
http://www.tuveson.com/LCRU/af_tender_lcru.htm

And an American Models FP7 at:
http://www.tuveson.com/LCRU/tmcc.htm

More to come...
Carl

-----Original Message-----
From: rbubeck327@... [mailto:rbubeck327@...]
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 9:14 AM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] LTI AF GPs under TMCC


AF friends:

This http was posted by Jim Battaglia over on the O Gauge Railroading board.

Therein one will find a nice description of how to convert Flyonel GPs to
enable their operation under TMCC. I believe that the same route could be
used to convert the PAs, too. Some one else may have posted this site
before,
but I believe that this may be "news" to many.

http://www.tuveson.com/LCRU/AFGPlcru/AFGPTMCC.htm

Have fun.

RB

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Group: S-Trains Message: 20788 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: LTI AF GPs under TMCC
Dear Carl,
Where does the speaker go?

Carl Tuveson wrote:

> RB,
>
> PAs are on the to do list as is the new American Models Trainmaster Diesel
> and a 342 with electrocouplers.
>
> Check out the AF Steam Engine conversion too, at:
> http://www.tuveson.com/LCRU/af_tender_lcru.htm
>
> And an American Models FP7 at:
> http://www.tuveson.com/LCRU/tmcc.htm
>
> More to come...
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rbubeck327@... [mailto:rbubeck327@...]
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 9:14 AM
> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [S-Trains] LTI AF GPs under TMCC
>
> AF friends:
>
> This http was posted by Jim Battaglia over on the O Gauge Railroading board.
>
> Therein one will find a nice description of how to convert Flyonel GPs to
> enable their operation under TMCC. I believe that the same route could be
> used to convert the PAs, too. Some one else may have posted this site
> before,
> but I believe that this may be "news" to many.
>
> http://www.tuveson.com/LCRU/AFGPlcru/AFGPTMCC.htm
>
> Have fun.
>
> RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20789 From: flyerfreak1986 Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Are you out there?
By any chance is there a Bob Foley out there?

thanks,

Michael
Group: S-Trains Message: 20790 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: LTI AF GPs under TMCC
The LCRU I am using does not have railsounds. It is the first generation
type LCRU Part #610-8042-126. It is also the smallest.

Carl

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Thompson [mailto:robin@...]
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 8:01 PM
To: Carl Tuveson
Cc: 'rbubeck327@...'; S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] LTI AF GPs under TMCC


Dear Carl,
Where does the speaker go?

Carl Tuveson wrote:

> RB,
>
> PAs are on the to do list as is the new American Models Trainmaster Diesel
> and a 342 with electrocouplers.
>
> Check out the AF Steam Engine conversion too, at:
> http://www.tuveson.com/LCRU/af_tender_lcru.htm
>
> And an American Models FP7 at:
> http://www.tuveson.com/LCRU/tmcc.htm
>
> More to come...
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rbubeck327@... [mailto:rbubeck327@...]
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 9:14 AM
> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [S-Trains] LTI AF GPs under TMCC
>
> AF friends:
>
> This http was posted by Jim Battaglia over on the O Gauge Railroading
board.
>
> Therein one will find a nice description of how to convert Flyonel GPs to
> enable their operation under TMCC. I believe that the same route could be
> used to convert the PAs, too. Some one else may have posted this site
> before,
> but I believe that this may be "news" to many.
>
> http://www.tuveson.com/LCRU/AFGPlcru/AFGPTMCC.htm
>
> Have fun.
>
> RB


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All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 20791 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: K-Line?
David (among many others on the same track) said:
>OK, Wild hare idea here!!
>The Marx cattle car works wonderfully with AF trucks under--you do have
>to file the bottom of the ends about 1/8" . . . and so on and so on.

I don't understand this thread at all. What is it that you guys want? More
cheap plastic freight cars that look like toys? Of all manufacturers to get
into the mix, why K-Line and it's old Marx plastic junk? Anybody who wants
this stuff has not been to York. There it's sold by the pound; By the
skidload if you have a hundred dollars.

Are you fed up with all that SHS and AM realism? Are you longing for a
playset with action figures and a walkie-talkie?

I thought most every one of us had followed a similar path. We got into
Flyer because we (and our parents who paid for them) liked the realistic
details and scale quality those clunky 0 gauge toys couldn't provide. As
time went by and our perceptions deepened, we realized that Flyers also were
toylike, though beloved, and that the new stuff appearing all around us was
the payoff for keeping the faith. Isn't an SHS switcher your reward for
keeping that old Baldwin with the Phillips screw crack running for all these
years? Aren't a set of AM Buddliners behind a pair of E-8's payback for
enduring Comet and Rocket and Silver Flash sets and boxy, unscale dome cars?
They are for me.

There isn't too much I want of the current trains offered. I have most of
what I like. The Gilbert catalog fantasy is pretty much paid off (except
for big, and I mean BIG, steam.) I just don't even want to think about
polystyrene cabooses molded in red and offered with no floor, two axles and
a molded in truck detail. No thanks. I'm outta there for good.

Of course, that's just me. As usual, do what you want. I won't try to stop
ya, but I will comment.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20792 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: tool
Crossbuck Industries, A
Division of Graphics House. They are located in Phoenix, AZ 85068-6405.


You could try writing to just that address, the ZIP + 4 on the address may be enough for the post office to find them.

jfred



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20793 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Starter set
polystyrene cabooses molded in red and offered with no floor, two axles
and
a molded in truck detail. No thanks. I'm outta there for good.

Of course, that's just me. As usual, do what you want. I won't try to
stop
ya, but I will comment.

Chris Zizzo


Chris, MARX did make a caboose with a floor and trucks. We are looking for a starter set at about half what SHS can sell one for. To get into the $149.99 to $174.99 price range, we can't go after too much in the way of new tooling. As stated K-Line now has the track. Yes, we'd like something that would lead to going on to better, but this could look as good as a Pikemaster F9, likely better.

If you have an idea of how we can have something that Mom will ok spending on something for the kid, speak up. The kids see the trains at a show, but the price is too much to get Mom to allow it into the toy budget. Get the kid hooked, and one SHS car at a time can be added later and things go from there.

That's my two cents worth,

jfred



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20794 From: David Dewey Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line?
Chris,
JFred has it right. Not ALL Marx stuff was as you describe. I have some
of the Santa Fe Stock cars converted to S by only adding S trucks under
them. They fit in very nicely with my AF cars (which, YES are NOT detailed
as nicely as the SHS and AM cars, etc.). Some of the Marx tooling was almost
as good as the ACG tooling. Another source of good stuff could be the
Industrial Rails tooling. I have their caboose, which is dead nuts on for S
and as detailed as the early AM cupola cabooses.
Those of us "in the hobby" are far more critical of details than the
general public. The trick is to get them interested with an inexpensive
starter set that is compatible with the better stuff, much as Tyco HO is
compatible with Proto HO, etc. Once we get them hooked, we can easily move
them up (which is why I think SHS and AM should be thinking about this idea,
keep them loyal to a Brand Name). I don't think of this as "going
backwards" but forward to a better future--and think of all the "raw
material" those "plain Jane" cars will give the scratchbuilders!
But to get the hook out there, we MUST HAVE a starter set, complete, RTR
for under $150!!! (IMHO)
Yes, we have gone around this before, and we'll go around this subject
again. Doesn't make it any less valid!!
OH, BTW, I wouldn't go for something that looks like the ACG F units,
there are *some* standards to keep! ;-)

S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20795 From: jahoozdumm Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: Reply from Nick Ladd
Nick Ladd responded:

>we are not convinced that the possibility would be attractive to the
>S gauge fans and we are uncertain of the sales potential.

Mmm-hmmm. IOW, "Hardly anyone buys S gauge any more." It would appear
that "times and conditions" at K-Line haven't changed since the
late '80s.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20796 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Of course, that's just me. As usual, do what you want. I won't try to stop
ya, but I will comment.

Chris Zizzo

Chris,
Not to be rude, but I don't think that particular thread is about 50+
somethings who can afford what they want. it's just about getting the kids
involved. Yes we are still kids at heart, but I think they are talking about
the kids here in East Dayton that don't have a pot to piss in, but still need
something to keep them out of trouble. That's all.
Plus if it's something more reasonable item price wise, more shops might
carry it. The way things are now, shops usually won't carry s-gauge because
not enough people want to pay for a pricey starter set. Yes it is excellent
quality. I won't buy anything else. But my 24 year old daughter still in
college can't afford a starter set in s to do a halloween setup. !75.00 bucks
gets her an O guage starter set.
That's what the thread was about. But, I know you new that all along and just
wanted to spout off a little. It's fun now and then. Hey, I'm doing it now.
CB the Trainnut.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20797 From: The Reis's Date: 8/26/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line?
Chris, Well said. That is exactly my thought. I went to TCA in Seattle last
weekend and it was nearly impossible for the guy selling flyer to sell any
of his used flyer stuff from the $10 and less box. There were some nice
cars in the under $20 category. I am with you trying to figure why more of
this stuff is needed. Whats SHS's basic set, $299? Do people expect to
find cheaper sets that would be even come close? I think it's too late, the
bar has been raised way up with the items you mention. I think more cheap,
breakable, S stuff on the market would hurt as people would be turned off by
poor quality.

Just one Northwest guys opinion.

Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa.


-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Zizzo [mailto:busyboy@...]
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 7:47 PM
To: slist
Subject: [S-Trains] K-Line?


David (among many others on the same track) said:
>OK, Wild hare idea here!!
>The Marx cattle car works wonderfully with AF trucks under--you do have
>to file the bottom of the ends about 1/8" . . . and so on and so on.

I don't understand this thread at all. What is it that you guys want? More
cheap plastic freight cars that look like toys? Of all manufacturers to get
into the mix, why K-Line and it's old Marx plastic junk? Anybody who wants
this stuff has not been to York. There it's sold by the pound; By the
skidload if you have a hundred dollars.

Are you fed up with all that SHS and AM realism? Are you longing for a
playset with action figures and a walkie-talkie?

I thought most every one of us had followed a similar path. We got into
Flyer because we (and our parents who paid for them) liked the realistic
details and scale quality those clunky 0 gauge toys couldn't provide. As
time went by and our perceptions deepened, we realized that Flyers also were
toylike, though beloved, and that the new stuff appearing all around us was
the payoff for keeping the faith. Isn't an SHS switcher your reward for
keeping that old Baldwin with the Phillips screw crack running for all these
years? Aren't a set of AM Buddliners behind a pair of E-8's payback for
enduring Comet and Rocket and Silver Flash sets and boxy, unscale dome cars?
They are for me.

There isn't too much I want of the current trains offered. I have most of
what I like. The Gilbert catalog fantasy is pretty much paid off (except
for big, and I mean BIG, steam.) I just don't even want to think about
polystyrene cabooses molded in red and offered with no floor, two axles and
a molded in truck detail. No thanks. I'm outta there for good.

Of course, that's just me. As usual, do what you want. I won't try to stop
ya, but I will comment.

Chris Zizzo



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 20798 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: Starter set - Last Words
OK, these are my last words on this subject. First, other than handcar sets, K-line does not have a catalogued (2002-1 K-line catalog) set for under $190 MSRP. That last $40 between this and under $150 is really important. And, no steam set for under $210 MSRP.
Next - Now Don, Mike and even Ron might be dumb enough to sell starter sets at $299 so that the cost to the HOBBY SHOP is just a little over ours (yes, the ones we sell to hobby shops we make virtually no money from) BUT we have an entire line of S gauge we are hoping our new customers might be interested in adding to their starter sets in the future. What does Maury of K-Line have? What
is his incentive to get people started in S? What would they buy next? Our or AM's stuff? Think again. The only way K-Line would make an S starter set if they made money on them, and no one makes money on entry level starter sets. Not in O or HO on G or N. That is why they are so cheap. The hook is the rest of the inventory. We can discuss this to death, but as long as the S market is
at it's current growth, I think it will be awhile before we see starter sets much cheaper, unless something very different occurs.
Just my last thoughts on the subject,
Don
PS Don't get me wrong, I am enjoying this thead very much as well as everyone thoughts (as usual esp. Chris Zizzo's). But, I have to move on to other things

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20799 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line?
Don't hold back Chris! Tell us how you really feel. I agree. I'm quite
fulfilled with my AM heavyweights rolling along behind my Hudson.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Zizzo [mailto:busyboy@...]
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 10:47 PM
To: slist
Subject: [S-Trains] K-Line?


David (among many others on the same track) said:
>OK, Wild hare idea here!!
>The Marx cattle car works wonderfully with AF trucks under--you do have
>to file the bottom of the ends about 1/8" . . . and so on and so on.

I don't understand this thread at all. What is it that you guys want? More
cheap plastic freight cars that look like toys? Of all manufacturers to get
into the mix, why K-Line and it's old Marx plastic junk? Anybody who wants
this stuff has not been to York. There it's sold by the pound; By the
skidload if you have a hundred dollars.

Are you fed up with all that SHS and AM realism? Are you longing for a
playset with action figures and a walkie-talkie?

I thought most every one of us had followed a similar path. We got into
Flyer because we (and our parents who paid for them) liked the realistic
details and scale quality those clunky 0 gauge toys couldn't provide. As
time went by and our perceptions deepened, we realized that Flyers also were
toylike, though beloved, and that the new stuff appearing all around us was
the payoff for keeping the faith. Isn't an SHS switcher your reward for
keeping that old Baldwin with the Phillips screw crack running for all these
years? Aren't a set of AM Buddliners behind a pair of E-8's payback for
enduring Comet and Rocket and Silver Flash sets and boxy, unscale dome cars?
They are for me.

There isn't too much I want of the current trains offered. I have most of
what I like. The Gilbert catalog fantasy is pretty much paid off (except
for big, and I mean BIG, steam.) I just don't even want to think about
polystyrene cabooses molded in red and offered with no floor, two axles and
a molded in truck detail. No thanks. I'm outta there for good.

Of course, that's just me. As usual, do what you want. I won't try to stop
ya, but I will comment.

Chris Zizzo



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

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+

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 20800 From: royhoffman Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Starter Sets
I agree with Chris, too, except that he is talking about apples and
the thread was about oranges. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the AM
Trailer Hauler is the most inexpensive complete set right now. I
wonder how it might work out if AM took one their of diesel products
like the Baldwin switcher, RS3 or FP7 and, put a car or two with it,
a caboose, some track and a small power pack and sold it close to
cost. I think we could come close to the under $200 mark that way.
It also would fit Don's "get em hooked and they'll buy my expensive
stuff" idea.

Roy

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Stoudt,Kenneth R." <STOUDTKR@a...> wrote:
> Don't hold back Chris! Tell us how you really feel. I agree. I'm
quite
> fulfilled with my AM heavyweights rolling along behind my Hudson.
> Ken
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Zizzo [mailto:busyboy@o...]
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 10:47 PM
> To: slist
> Subject: [S-Trains] K-Line?
>
>
> David (among many others on the same track) said:
> >OK, Wild hare idea here!!
> >The Marx cattle car works wonderfully with AF trucks under--you do
have
> >to file the bottom of the ends about 1/8" . . . and so on and so
on.
>
> I don't understand this thread at all. What is it that you guys
want? More
> cheap plastic freight cars that look like toys? Of all
manufacturers to get
> into the mix, why K-Line and it's old Marx plastic junk? Anybody
who wants
> this stuff has not been to York. There it's sold by the pound; By
the
> skidload if you have a hundred dollars.
>
> Are you fed up with all that SHS and AM realism? Are you longing
for a
> playset with action figures and a walkie-talkie?
>
> I thought most every one of us had followed a similar path. We got
into
> Flyer because we (and our parents who paid for them) liked the
realistic
> details and scale quality those clunky 0 gauge toys couldn't
provide. As
> time went by and our perceptions deepened, we realized that Flyers
also were
> toylike, though beloved, and that the new stuff appearing all
around us was
> the payoff for keeping the faith. Isn't an SHS switcher your
reward for
> keeping that old Baldwin with the Phillips screw crack running for
all these
> years? Aren't a set of AM Buddliners behind a pair of E-8's
payback for
> enduring Comet and Rocket and Silver Flash sets and boxy, unscale
dome cars?
> They are for me.
>
> There isn't too much I want of the current trains offered. I have
most of
> what I like. The Gilbert catalog fantasy is pretty much paid off
(except
> for big, and I mean BIG, steam.) I just don't even want to think
about
> polystyrene cabooses molded in red and offered with no floor, two
axles and
> a molded in truck detail. No thanks. I'm outta there for good.
>
> Of course, that's just me. As usual, do what you want. I won't
try to stop
> ya, but I will comment.
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> +
>
> +
Group: S-Trains Message: 20801 From: robert allen conner Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Sets
There are really inexpensive starter sets available...At under 150.00 with a
nice steam engine, 2 or 3 cars, track, etc....Many times these sets go for
under 100.00 so there is room for profit if you want....See the auctions for
older Atlantic sets...get one..clean it a little....take them to the next
show...sell them out...Ron Leventon used to sell starter sets like this for
75.00....We all have boxes of stuff with small chips and scratches....Sell
them as used to the kids to start...who knows in the future the values might
go up for them....As for K line I have nice Diesel sets...factory boxed...I
will sell for 125.00..Mth has sets under 200...Bob Conner
Group: S-Trains Message: 20802 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: SETS
Hi Bob,
I do the same with old beat up Atlantics & Pacific's (Non
collector types that need to be repainted). The only difference is I use SnS
Can motors to convert them to DC. The transformers are easy to come by & the
reversing is easier on a beginner. I also replace the headlight with a diode.
I have put a few together & hope to have about 10 done in time for
Cal-Stewart this year. I may look for someone on the East coast to sell them
for me at the bigger eastern shows Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20803 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Link and Pin action car trucks
Several weeks ago someone was looking for two (2) Link and Pin action car
trucks. Would that person please contact me off list? Thanks

Ken Stoudt


+
Group: S-Trains Message: 20804 From: Rick Evans Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Whimsical?? Rivet counters..??
Chris wrote...

***((I don't understand this thread at all. What is it that you guys want? More
cheap plastic freight cars that look like toys?
Are you fed up with all that SHS and AM realism? Are you longing for a
playset with action figures and a walkie-talkie?))***

I think we all need to remember one thing.....
We all have different ideas on how to run our fantasy little "train" world set up in
the corner of a room or the garage,..or a whole room, attic, where-ever...big or small!!
If you want oversized monkees dancing on the roof of your Plasticville diner,..more power to ya,.
..I won't knock ya! If ya Want to convert On30, Marx, or whatever, to run on your
Flyer track,..go for it!!

If you are more into rivet counting and past the "ToY" stage,...start countin'!! I do like the detail of
SHS and AM...great stuff!! I also like the whimsical (sp?) side of runnin' trains,..the "Toy" side!!
The "Fun" side. Well,...It's ALL fun!

Play with your trains however you like! Never grow up!!

Hmmm.....Now where can I get some oversized monkees??


Rick "In his own little train world" Evans.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20805 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Verify Hoquat's Address
To all:
Would someone please verify Hoquat Hobby's address?

The one I have is from 1988 and is:

Hoquat Hobbies
P.O. Box 253, Dunellen, New Jersey 08812

I don't have a phone number, street address, e-mail, nor web site.

Thanks!
Thorin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20806 From: Mark Preman Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Sets
Just to add info to the pile, I
(AmericanFlyerTrains.com)will be marketing an S gauge
Thomas the Tank Engine with a few cars for the younger
set so junior can run his train on dad or grampa's
layout. It is being manufactured by Putt Trains.
Pricing will be in the $60 range. Mark

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20807 From: TWesthelle@aol.com Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Sets
All this banter about starter sets, all you need to do is look down in the
boxes of old and semi-discarded stuff, and there you will find the ORIGINAL
STARTER SETS, actually produced by AC Gilbert's American Flyer Crop, during
its last failed gasps of air.
Of course by now you all know what I mean, what could be a better starter set
for the younger set, somewhat rugged, not valuable, but most important, S
GAUGE and American Flyer at that, the 21165 and its following stable of
pikemaster cars.
These sets can be picked up readily on EBay all the time, somewhere in the
range of $25-50.
The beauty is that when they break, throw them out, or scrape them for some
parts and replace them. They are durably constructed to handle playwear of
the younger set, and Id be proud to have my little ones playing with these.
Just to throw a little spin on all the previously mentioned thoughts.
Oh, by the way, I have been called an American Flyer, AC Gilbert Purist,
wonder where that label ever came from.
Thanks for this forum,
Tom Westhelle
Oviedo, FL
Group: S-Trains Message: 20808 From: wintermutedm Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Thomas and starter sets
My dime (inflation) on the matter...

First, Mark, when might you have the Thomas sets? My 4(almost 5)
yearold loves Thomas (the wooden set) and we usually have a wooden
thomas layout around the floor of my (unfinished) AF layout. He has
his own CaseyJones Flyer that we repainted (yellow, red and blue.
his choice, and we had a blast painting it) and I let him use some of
my pikemaster cars, but A
A Thomas set would be pretty cool for him, and soon, his little
brother (1.5 yearsold).

As far as starter sets, I can see both ways for getting older folks
into S guage (good sets vs cheap sets), but when you are dealing with
a 4 yearold, you dont want him playing around with a 2 or 300 dollar
train piece (mine knows (and cant reach) which ones are "daddy's
cars"). Of course, as Tom Westhelle mentioned, there is a ready
supply of old AF gilbert starter sets available (for kids). Frankly,
I would even cringe at the thought of letting my kid handle a 100
dollar engine... so the good old pikemaster 20 or 30 dollar casey
jones engines are great. The only thing that is disappointing about
them is they dont smoke. 60 bucks or so for Thomas would be awsome...
about the same as a casey jones setup (maybe a little more, but then
its a new engine vs old), and using a very very well recognized
product to snag the youngsters... good way to get a new crowd young
going (and even their parents... I got back into trains because I
wanted somethng fun for my kid to do, and remembered I had an old
casey jones setup my uncle gave me when i was a kid, so i got it out
and became addicted....).

Sorry, I'm rambling. but the thomas setup sounds great!



(Mark wrote...)
>From: Mark Preman <amerflyer@y...>
>
>Just to add info to the pile, I
>(AmericanFlyerTrains.com)will be marketing an S gauge
>Thomas the Tank Engine with a few cars for the younger
>set so junior can run his train on dad or grampa's
>layout. It is being manufactured by Putt Trains.
>Pricing will be in the $60 range. Mark
>
>=====
>Mark B. Preman
>AmericanFlyerTrains.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20809 From: Mark Preman Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge Thomas the Tank Engine
Sorry guys, I may have been premature on the pricing.
Let's leave it at under $80 for the moment. Mark

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20810 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Dmerrit wrote"). Frankly,
I would even cringe at the thought of letting my kid handle a 100
dollar engine... so the good old pikemaster 20 or 30 dollar casey
jones engines are great. "


I had a guy tell me that in Louisville once and I proceede to run my 336 off
a table. Most of the guys heard the whole story. #336 came away unscathed for
the most part. Just a small dent. If your letting them play on the floor, any
flyer engine should work. Chris the Trainnut
Group: S-Trains Message: 20811 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: Thomas and starter sets
Read what you said about the Casey Jones engines that don't smoke. That's
why I look for old Atlantics that need A motor & /or Paint & put a $30 DC can
in them. Then you have a "New" $50.00 engine with $5-$10 cars a $10
transformer & all the cheap track that you can clean. The kids don't have to
mess with the rev cycles etc. All Flyer compatible. The DC cans are very easy
to install & away you go. Mike S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20812 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: Thomas and starter sets
Another 2 cents If It has to be Thomas You might be able to get the face
off a wooden one & replace the Atlantic boiler front with the wooden one.
Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20813 From: David Dewey Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge Thomas the Tank Engine
Well, well!!!
Here's a start! Now add a circle of track (someone's ANYONE'S) a
transformer, instructions, wire and a nice box w/graphics, and we're there
for under $150, especially if you can snag someone like K Mart, etc. to sell
it. (Of course, you are too late for this Christmas, but just in time for
Christmas 2003--yes, the lead time for the big guns is that far in
advance!!!)
Remember, this list is not the market we're looking for, we are PEANUTS
compared to the probable market. And YES, the quality, detailed guys will
benefit, as will the repro accessory guys.
S'
David "rose shades" Dewey
Group: S-Trains Message: 20814 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: SETS
In a message dated 08/27/2002 2:11:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
notify@yahoogroups.com writes:


> Don't put the glasses away yet Dave. If at every show you had one guy who
> has converted 10 "SETS" & has them ready & they sell for approx. the same
> amt +- $25 .you would have a grassroots type of New Flyer being made from
> the junk that is just sitting around. The buyer would know they were used
> but rebuilt. Included in the not so Fancy box as org Gilbert was, are the
> catalogs & flyers from SHS & American Models, Parts vendors & other goodies
> to add to the sets. Like where they could get man. or remote SW's at a
> fixed price & extra track. After using the train with the kid for a few
> years the "Adult" might want something newer or older. The biggest concern
> being a reliable rebuilt engine. The cars could be missing steps, they will
> someday anyway.
> Would it be possible for a club to do this to make a little profit &
> encourage membership. They have the talent to repaint engines & re-decal
> them. The cars could be repainted or left the way they are.
> I for one like the DC can motor so that a beginner can play with his/her
> toy with little to no problems. No sticking E-Units etc. Just an idea.
> Mike S



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20815 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge Thomas the Tank Engine
Just curious, will the Thomas set for $80 be sold through Hobby Shops and
Dealers (does it have a normal hobby shop and dealer mark up?)? I always wondered
what was involved to licensee the "Thomas" name for use on trains (I am assuming
Putt has obtained the licensing agreement).
Don
PS Dear David, K-mart expects 50%+10 off of the MSRP and net 90 days.

David Dewey wrote:

> Well, well!!!
> Here's a start! Now add a circle of track (someone's ANYONE'S) a
> transformer, instructions, wire and a nice box w/graphics, and we're there
> for under $150, especially if you can snag someone like K Mart, etc. to sell
> it. (Of course, you are too late for this Christmas, but just in time for
> Christmas 2003--yes, the lead time for the big guns is that far in
> advance!!!)
> Remember, this list is not the market we're looking for, we are PEANUTS
> compared to the probable market. And YES, the quality, detailed guys will
> benefit, as will the repro accessory guys.
> S'
> David "rose shades" Dewey

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20816 From: wintermutedm Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: quick question on selling S in Chicago....
Here is a question, at least for Chicagoland S-Gaugers...

How come there are no decent layouts for S Gauge at the Great Midwest
Train show? I know there are a few dealers (six or seven) for S
parts and Flyer, and I even saw (at 2 shows I think) some SHS sets
being sold (literally watched the guy next to me buy one). However,
there is usually only 1 very small and bare bones (like 1 old flyer
engine, some rolling stock, and 2 switches on an oval) s-gauge
layout. I suppose that is better than none, but I think our gauge
could do a lot better. I have noticed that there are no layouts
(that I found at least) that had any accessories people could
operate, like some people on this list have mentioned about other
shows (out east). I think that even a small layout with a few
operating accessories (like cows, or a magnetic crane.. maybe even a
mail car?) and some basic scenery, with more than one engine to run,
would go over really well. The show seems huge, so I am surprised
that no Chicago club has tried to do this yet. Sorry for all of the
in-articulate rambling today… guess I just found my high (iron) horse
to climb on.

http://www.greatmidwesttrainshow.com/index.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 20817 From: Jay E. Mellon Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Starter Sets
Dear S Folk,
I have been enjoying this thread and thought I would offer a few comments. Our club has been doing train shows for 9 years and over that period I have made some observations. Our primary reason for doing these shows is to promote S scale model railroading, but a secondary objective is to get kids interested in the hobby. Our display layout attracts its share of admirers and it seems the adults prefer the scale type models that we typically operate. Kids (6-12 years old), on the other hand, go bonkers for the original Gilbert smoking steam engines. These products still fascinate the kids.

When parents see the obvious enthusiasm of their kids for these trains, they occasionally ask us where they can obtain such products. Unfortunately, we have to inform them that such products are not easily found (original Gilbert products) in S.E. Louisiana or, the "sticker shock" of the new stuff (AM, SHS) quickly glazes their eyes over. These folks are not hobbyists and are not knowledgeable enough to put together sets of original ACG stuff themselves. They need an affordable set in a container with a simple set of instructions so they can get it running quickly. So, lately, I have been directing them to contact Mark Preman (I have NO commercial link with Preman Enterprises). He can put together a set with a smoking steamer and some cars with track and transformer for between $100 to $150 (last I heard). Of course, this equipment is not new (40-50 years old) and the potential customers can not see and touch the product. But, I see this option as a viable alternative to NO S starter set. Don Thompson's salient comments from a manufacturer's point of view has convinced me that we will not see any of the major toy train manufacturers producing a low cost ($100-150) S starter set in the foreseeable future. That's my dime's worth (inflation, you know), anyhow.
'S'incerely,
Jay Mellon
Crescent City S Gaugers
New Orleans, LA
Group: S-Trains Message: 20818 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Thomas and other stuff
Hi guys,

If Putt turns out a Thomas set for $80, it'll be on my layout and I'll play
with it too! We already have the Lionel G guage set (with James too). I'd
love to have "toys" on my layout. Several Thomas diecast vehicles already
live there and look darn good too.

I'm still waiting for my Putt Docksider. Has anyone got one yet? I can't
wait!

As far as finding inexpensive Flyer at TCA meets, I respectfully disagree
with Eric. I go to the same regional shows as he does and normally come home
empty handed. I buy at the lower end of quality as that's what I can afford.
Junk boxes are my favorite! I keep saying that I only stay in TCA because
of Kid's Caboose. Even that was discontinued, and I may let my current
membership lapse this next time.

I still have a unopened MTH Gabe to trade. Does anyone have anything
interesting?

Jacques
Group: S-Trains Message: 20819 From: Paul Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: More Good News
I have setup a photo album that we can use to post and share our photos.

You can upload them directly, or if they are out there somewhere on the
web they can be transfered.
If you want to take a preliminary peak at the album, go to
http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/gallery/gallery/modelrail

I have transfered some of my Convention picture over there. Nothing you
have not already seen.

If you would like to put some (S related) pictures in an album, please
let me know, so I can set up an album and account for you.

Thanks in advance for your help.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20820 From: William Porter Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Putt Trains 0-4-0
Hi Folks,

My brand new Putt 0-4-0 arrived today and it was a happy moment. After I got it out of the packing and my grandson and I put it on the track to run, it was an even happier moment. It works very well and will see long service loading and unloading my car ferry. Finally, when we loaded up the smoke tube and started it puffing, we had a real S moment. If you haven't got one of these beauties, you might want to consider it.

We also run a Putt trolley as a part of our portable S display - it is the one that Paul Yorke built. That trolley runs and runs and runs with nary a problem. We let it go all day, every day we are at a show. If this new engine is as durable, it will last a lot longer than I will.

This has been an unsolicited testimonial. No discount, either.

Later,
Bill Porter

wpporter@...

561 791 1781

15212 79th Court N
Loxahatchee, FL 33470


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20821 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: 21st Fall Get-Together web site
Mike Greene has update our web site and it now includes all of the
Hotel information. The dates are September 20th to 22nd in South Amboy,
NJ. The website is at:
http://www.nasg.org/cjss.html
Don

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20822 From: David Dewey Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge Thomas the Tank Engine
Hmm, so Don, K-Mart expects you to front the flooring and the merchandise
until sold & maybe later!! YUCK!! This just goes to prove what I've
jokingly said about making a "small fortune" in the toy train biz. Maybe
I'll rethink what I'll do with my future Lotto winnings.
S'
David D.
Ps What? I gotta buy a Lotto ticket to win?? Yoicks, another plan down the
drain.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20823 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge Thomas the Tank Engine
Dear David,
A few years ago we meet a buy for one of the large national department stores
and we had a "What if" discussion. Later I realized is was really about "What if I
lost my mind". I think a similar scenario is what finally helped to kill Gilbert.
Too many returns after the holiday on unpaid merchandise.
Don

David Dewey wrote:

> Hmm, so Don, K-Mart expects you to front the flooring and the merchandise
> until sold & maybe later!! YUCK!! This just goes to prove what I've
> jokingly said about making a "small fortune" in the toy train biz. Maybe
> I'll rethink what I'll do with my future Lotto winnings.
> S'
> David D.
> Ps What? I gotta buy a Lotto ticket to win?? Yoicks, another plan down the
> drain.

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20824 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge Thomas the Tank Engine
Dave,
Once upon a time, one of my hardware suppliers arbitarily closed my
account because I didn't buy enough. This was after they changed the rules
in theory, but not in fact, and did not notify any of their customers. The
fact that I ALWAYS paid by the tenth didn't matter. They wanted the BIG
accounts such as Builders Square, Heckinger's, K-Mart, etc. As I guess you
know, they are all in bankruptcy or gone completely. OOOPS, so is the
hardware supplier. The small guys paying on time kept their doors open. The
President of the company refused to talk to me on the phone, rationale was
that I had no account there (they had already closed it).
He was the first to go as the ship sank.
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20825 From: jahoozdumm Date: 8/27/2002
Subject: Re: Starter set - Last Words
Don Thompson wrote:

>We can discuss this to death, but as long as the S market is
>at it's current growth, I think it will be awhile before we see
>starter sets much cheaper, unless something very different occurs.

That is the "catch-22," isn't it? With no real growth, S won't have
any affordable starter sets. With no affordable starter sets, S won't
have any real growth.

So, how did mass-produced S gauge trains come into existence at all
in the first place?

Though the potential market was already there (embryonic as it was),
the 1950's market for mass-produced S gauge trains GREW because the
product was there to buy. The product must come before much growth
can come. I realize that's easy to say, but that doesn't change the
fact that that's the way things work.


>no one makes money on entry level starter sets. Not in O or HO on G
>or N. That is why they are so cheap. The hook is the rest of the
>inventory.

And all that is why I believe that "what S really needs" is a well
established company (such as Mattel) with the resources to bring out
not simply a starter set only, but a whole S gauge/scale LINE that
can be grown into. Such a company would have the means to market the
unprofitable starter sets to draw folks into buying their profitable
items. Such a company was Gilbert in 1946. Trouble is, Gilbert had
one other necessary entity that no toy company (let alone toy TRAIN
company) today seems to have: A.C. Gilbert, a visionary at the helm.

Sadly, what visionaries we do have building S products today (and we
do have a couple, I think), don't have the needed resources.

Not very encouraging, I know, but so it is.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20826 From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Sets
Yo:

The biggest problem you have with Starter sets attracting kids is that you
are competing with some big boys like MATH, K-line and Lionel. They all
make starter sets in O-gauge that start with the basic (smoke, whistle,
lights) for under $100.00. If you want more advance you have optional sets
(sound, remove uncoupling, operating accessories) in the range of $300.00.

In my opinion kids like to interact with toys, and having trains do smoke,
whistle, uncouple, dump coal...., that is what young kids like to do. Then
there are the older kids that like to spend get involved with the modeling
aspect of the hobby. In this case you are competing with the HO
manufactures, and with all the HO stuff available, I don't think you have a
chance.

Right now at least there are sets available out there, even thought they are
not 100.00, we need to help market what is available today.

Just my 25 cents.

Tommy
Group: S-Trains Message: 20827 From: ljaneski@bellsouth.net Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Sets
John is RIGHT.

AM and SHS are full of sh1t.

HO and O gauge and RC planes have starter sets.

With out them it will futile to show kids old tinplate
and then say buy the way AM has a steam engine for 299.

Ertl had a battery set for like $75.











>
> From: "John R. Mangus" <jrmangus@...>
> Date: 2002/08/28 Wed AM 01:43:17 EDT
> To: "Jay E. Mellon" <jmellon@...>, <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
> CC: <ARANDALLW@...>, <mmbushnell@...>, <dmunsey@...>,
> <callall@...>, <ljaneski@...>, <W_A_E@...>,
> <choomeyer@...>, <tstoltz@...>, <noramz@...>
> Subject: Re: Starter Sets
>
> Jay,
> You make some very good points.
> It is a shame that "S" is such a "Rich Man's" hobby. I became interested in
> S because of a family link, my Dad's Gilbert set. However if I wish to
> create a 4' by 8' layout, which I have with Gilbert, in SHS or AM, it will
> cost me, engine, track, and some cars in excess of $750. That makes a
> $199.00 Playstaion 2 very affordable. Not to mention the space requirement.
> I must say I am greatly displeased with Ron and Don. I could stomache their
> prices a little more if their products were habdcrafted in the U.S. but if
> it all from China what is their profit margin? Do they want to promote and
> build a hobby or ...? There must be a lower cost alternative to AM and SHS
> if the hobby is to grow to younger couples and their children.
>
> If anyone thinks I am being a tightwad do the math. Pretend you have
> nothing but a desire to buy S and a 4' by 8' sheet of plywood. What do you
> need from SHS or AM and what will it cost? I have done this mental mumbly
> peg many times and it will astound you. And that is not for DCC or any of
> the many other wonders of the hobby. (And kids just like the smoke) If you
> are a very avid, probably experienced railroad modeler, you can justify it.
> If you are a family man with many obligations that justification gets
> harder.
> We could say that the second category of people could just go to Hobby
> Lobby and pluck down $90.00 and get an HO set. Many do. I don't think HO is
> as realistic, runable, or as fun but $750.00 or $100. It appears to be a
> no-brainer for some. There should be a starter set under $150.
>
>
> That's just my take. I did not mean to offend anyone.
>
> John
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20828 From: jfrr54 Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Starter Sets
First, concerning converting old Atlantics, Casey Jones, etc. That
would be optimal. The problem is that parents want: (1) a new toy
usually; (2)A warranty of some sort if it doesn't work. I don't think
reworked sets really work for that. Second, you don't want to go the
route of the Gilbert late model "cheap" trains, because they did not
stack up against the competition. I agree with the earlier posts that
if someone could get Bachmann to do a passenger car run of On30's
(which since they sell for $20 per car retail probably cost $2-5 to
make and leave off the wheelsets and then add flyer wheelsets cost
$3-5, with a K-Line ring and a transformer (perhaps Bachmann). The
only thing left would be the engine. There lies the rub. Can you
find someone to make a dependable running (new engine) for $25. If
you can then a starter set would be possible. But once you add in
some give aways and Don Thompson is right, unless you have a higher
end product line and track to sell, it would be a loss leader. Maybe
Bachmann, Lionel or K-Line would joint venture with an S Manufacturer.
For the larger manufacturers if more basic cars are built it creates a
lower marginal cost and creates some economies for them. Those are my
thoughts.
John Rodgers
Group: S-Trains Message: 20829 From: rfgiardina Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Starter Sets?
Thomas the Tank Engine was a very nice idea, 10 years ago, but I
think that ship has sailed. Have the owners or will the owners of
Thomas license another one?

More to the original point, what is the target market for these
starter sets? If it's the folks on this list, OK. But if it's the
parents of children in the general population, that's something
different.

There is the First Rule of advertising: Why should I buy this, and
why should I buy it from you?

Why would a parent by any "S" Gauge starter set? Buying an "S"
starter set is like buying a new car, that uses special cheap gas,
only they don't make the gas. Looks nice, sounds good, but is
perfectly useless.

There are Thomas the Tank, and starter sets in every other gauge, and
they do make the gas!

Remember, on this message board you are discussing every issue inside
a closed room, to a limited audience. You are selling umbrellas in
the rain. The trick is to sell umbrellas on a bright sunny day.

The idea of a starter set, is the future entry into a seamless and
effortless expansion. That does not exist now, even with the "S"
products that are available. As soon as you start explaining to a
novice parent AC vs. DC, you've lost the battle.

For the General Public, there is no "S" Gauge or "S" Scale, there is
only American Flyer. Product name and identification, not an
explanation of dimensions, sells trains.

When Gilbert sold American Flyer, he was selling a TOY, not a hobby,
not scale, not collecting, but a toy. What was important was smoke
and choo choo, operating accessories and cars.

Even computers today, one of the selling points is the games, the
software. A kid doesn't care about a Pentium vs an Athelon. And
parents want their kids to use the computer or the train today and
tomorrow.

There are ways of growing "S", but it would take a new approach and
cooperation.

Bob Giardina
Group: S-Trains Message: 20830 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Starter Sets
I think we need to be able to market the starter sets that S-Helper makes and
AM. If every club, or individual that was promoting S-Gauge at the shows, had
the opportunity to display new starter sets along with the trains they are
running, we might make a small dent in the market.
Unfortunately, The hobby shops that will carry the product need to be
protected. They pretty much have to charge suggested retail because of
overhead. a club or individual has no overhead and could charge very little
over cost hurting the hobby shop owner. With the fair trade laws, S-Helper
can't tell a club or individual what to sell the trains for. If there was a
way to ensure the clubs and individuals would sell for retail, we might be
able to get the starter sets on the market.
Here is an example. I have had my Christmas layout setup in the Middletown
Historical society building since May when the S-Spree was held in that city.
There have been people asking where they could buy the trains locally. Of
course the closest place is 45 minutes away in Milford Ohio. Davis
Electronics. He sells S-Helper for about 15% off Sug. Retail. They don't want
to Drive all the way there. But, if I was able to have a starter set or 2
available on display for sale, they may have bought the set and been hooked
as we say.
The same could be done at the train shows too. It is just a matter of
figuring out a way to do it. 27 cents worth. Cb the trainnut
Group: S-Trains Message: 20831 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: GMWTS
Been going to Dupage show for 6 or 7 years now pretty regularly and have seen few modular layouts. I don't belong to the modular group here so I don't know why they don't present there.

While we're on the subject of layouts.

It happens that I am layout tour chairman for S-Fest this year.

We will have 3 layouts open for Thursday night for early birds. All are within 20 minutes of the convention site. In Chicago we talk about time rather than mileage.

Sunday's line up features 15 S-scale tours, a live steam operation as well a the Dupage GATS show. Maps and other info will be available at the convention center.

Tables are going fast under a 100 remain with several dealers now having finalized their spot so hurry if you want some selling space.

We will have 9 operating layouts on site and the largest selling floor of any S-Fest so make plans now.

Check out the website: http://www.trainweb.org/casg/ for registration info

John Griffin
Group: S-Trains Message: 20832 From: Jay E. Mellon Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Sets
All,
Apparently, we do not see eye to eye on this topic. If you guys can produce an S starter set for $100 and make money, you should go into business. I don't see Don Thompson and Ron Bashista driving around in fancy sports cars (Mike Wolf does have a Lambourghini), so I doubt they are "ripping off" the S modeling community. The ERTL set was O.K., but it was poorly marketed and battery-powered models just don't hack it.
Jay

>>> <ljaneski@...> 08/28/02 08:09AM >>>
John is RIGHT.

AM and SHS are full of sh1t.

HO and O gauge and RC planes have starter sets.

With out them it will futile to show kids old tinplate
and then say buy the way AM has a steam engine for 299.

Ertl had a battery set for like $75.











>
> From: "John R. Mangus" <jrmangus@...>
> Date: 2002/08/28 Wed AM 01:43:17 EDT
> To: "Jay E. Mellon" <jmellon@...>, <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
> CC: <ARANDALLW@...>, <mmbushnell@...>, <dmunsey@...>,
> <callall@...>, <ljaneski@...>, <W_A_E@...>,
> <choomeyer@...>, <tstoltz@...>, <noramz@...>
> Subject: Re: Starter Sets
>
> Jay,
> You make some very good points.
> It is a shame that "S" is such a "Rich Man's" hobby. I became interested in
> S because of a family link, my Dad's Gilbert set. However if I wish to
> create a 4' by 8' layout, which I have with Gilbert, in SHS or AM, it will
> cost me, engine, track, and some cars in excess of $750. That makes a
> $199.00 Playstaion 2 very affordable. Not to mention the space requirement.
> I must say I am greatly displeased with Ron and Don. I could stomache their
> prices a little more if their products were habdcrafted in the U.S. but if
> it all from China what is their profit margin? Do they want to promote and
> build a hobby or ...? There must be a lower cost alternative to AM and SHS
> if the hobby is to grow to younger couples and their children.
>
> If anyone thinks I am being a tightwad do the math. Pretend you have
> nothing but a desire to buy S and a 4' by 8' sheet of plywood. What do you
> need from SHS or AM and what will it cost? I have done this mental mumbly
> peg many times and it will astound you. And that is not for DCC or any of
> the many other wonders of the hobby. (And kids just like the smoke) If you
> are a very avid, probably experienced railroad modeler, you can justify it.
> If you are a family man with many obligations that justification gets
> harder.
> We could say that the second category of people could just go to Hobby
> Lobby and pluck down $90.00 and get an HO set. Many do. I don't think HO is
> as realistic, runable, or as fun but $750.00 or $100. It appears to be a
> no-brainer for some. There should be a starter set under $150.
>
>
> That's just my take. I did not mean to offend anyone.
>
> John
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20833 From: roy inman Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Starter sets
Dear list:
Just my five dollars worth on starter sets (inflation, you know; up from the
two cents worth of the 20th century).
Seems to me that the S manufacturers have gone after the current market-us.
My guess is that it would take mega-mega bucks and the same mega-marketing
to, in effect, create a demand for S sets across the board.
Mass retailers, as I understand it, require huge quantities of any given
product, and equally huge discounts.
That means, as others on the list have suggested, that some manufacturer
would have to have the wherewithall to produce those large quantities.
Mega-risk, IMHO.
After having some offshore manufacturer make the sets, the U.S. importer
paying for them, getting thousands of them delivered to the retail
distribution centers, then if they don't sell, getting them shipped back
from the retail centers and having to refund money-whew!
To find a need and fill it is one thing.
To create a hulla-hoop craze, or even a medium-size demand, (for S sets) is
quite another.
So, SHS, AM and others have found a "niche" market, as it were.
And it is us.
Does that mean S will never "go large," as the music people say?
Probably, but that doesn't mean it can't "go larger" than it is now.
The grass roots effort, of showing up at train meets, shopping centers,
local history museums, any venue that will let us-will build awareness.
Cheers,
Roy Inman
Group: S-Trains Message: 20834 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Fwd: THOMAS
This may answer your Thomas Questions, Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20835 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Re: Fwd: THOMAS
Sorry my fwd did not come through.
It contained an E-mail I received from Putt Trains about Thomas. Putt
intends to modify a TOMY set that runs on batteries to run on S track. He did
not state weather it would remain Batt. operated or not. He also confirmed
the price to be at $80.00.
if anyone needs more info their address is: www.puttttrains.com

Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20836 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Thomas
Sorry : The cost will be $70.00 & will come with engine & 2 cars. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20837 From: THOMAS E HILLERY Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1560
Re: the Starter Set
I also think it might help if there was a car and catalog from each
of the current S gauge makers at cost in the set. Would be good
advertising and would let the buyers see what and who is available. Also
a copy of the Dispatch and maybe S-Gaugian. You need to present
youngsters with a whole
world and a support system
Tom Hillery
Group: S-Trains Message: 20838 From: pieter_roos Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Putt trains was Re: Fwd: THOMAS
Interesting. I'm not sure modifying a TOMY product solves the license problem, but they are probably under the radar for the enforcement people anyway.

As far as another poster's comment that Thomas is 10 years too late, I understand that the RR museum people call him "The little blue money machine" for the additional revenue pulled in when he appears at events. I'm sure someone in my club will buy the set (heck I may, and I'm basically a scale guy! My aunt used to send me Thomas books from England before he was discovered this side of ocean.) to run at shows.

The Putt site is interesting. They seem to have a lot of what would be required for a simple starter set already. The little diesel (if RTR), a loop of track and controller (they would need to provide a reverse I think). Add a car or two, preferably something that operates like a little tip car with loading and unloading spots, and you'd have something that clubs could buy a couple of to sell at shows. In the spirit of their Thomas set, maybe the little Lehman "Gnomy" tip car could be regauged to S and made to work, at least as a concept test. Sets with small "critter" type diesels were often the 'starter' sets in the past.

Pieter

--- In S-Trains@y..., anormal1@a... wrote:
> Sorry my fwd did not come through.
> It contained an E-mail I received from Putt Trains about Thomas. Putt
> intends to modify a TOMY set that runs on batteries to run on S track. He did
> not state weather it would remain Batt. operated or not. He also confirmed
> the price to be at $80.00.
> if anyone needs more info their address is: www.puttttrains.com
>
> Mike S.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20839 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: ATLANTICS
Anyone that has any Metal Atlantics & Pacific's Shells or whole engines
that do not run & would like to sell them at a reas. price Please contact me
of list. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20841 From: Richard Snook Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: warning...long winded
Evening, morning all

I wasnt going to add any cent 2, 5 or othrerwise to the starter set
inquisition..as I stated my ideas years ago...and since then been off with
the fairies solving other of life's little conumdrums!!!...the battle
continues.

OK...Starter sets...hmm...alright...all the fish in barrels line up..and
you turkeys form a queue to the left!!!

Tis a very vexed question with many answers...many valid.......

Lets come at this nicely hey.....Ron Don and Ron...and any one else with ON
in their names run businesses..with tight bottom lines....for them to do
"The Starter Set to end all Starter sets"...just aint on....too much
capitilisation...too much out-there risk......too little return. Its just
too too bad!!! :-((

The other ....bachmanns etc of the world...have own barrow to push...they
have own back up product in "other" scales/guages ...they have their own
game plan.why on earth would they need to venture into S ??..it has to be
asked!!!

Those who think Thomas is old hat....either dont have kids or
grandkids....or have never been enchanted by SODOR in the 1st place, as
someone mentioned...ask any rail museum operator what happens on days a
certain blue tank engine shows up...there is NO use-by date for
Thomas...any more than Snow White...or Barbie.

Those who are assembling "sets' from junkers refurbished or old stock
etc...well done peoples...its a little kindling on the fire...but it wont
keep the coals hot forever. Nothing is going to replace that NEW TRAIN
under the christmas tree etc...except another NEW
TRAIN under....... This is where we go down the path once
mentioned by someone ( *VBG*) ..that is..someone/company to produce a
TRAIN SET ( yes like the B'n On30 stuff) but in true 1:64 to match the
Dept 54 stuff......theres the audience that produces the numbers for some
company presently in toys/etc to get an inroad into an unfulfilled
potential. Said company already knows the ropes re sales/returns/margins
etc of the big dept store/mall operators...but has a little more clout.
Ideally ( ironically) it would best suit a company with NO present TRAIN
product lines...but wants one....so as to offer 'another' line to the store
buyers etc.. This company is producing widgets of one flavour or
another...they are just products with profit.

Whats the chance of this happening....Sweet Stuff All I would imagine,
unless someone has an IN somewhere...

So where are we...we are a minority scale, with diversive bases. We are
very enthusiastic, but havent the entry product !!! such is life....get
over it !!!
What can we do....show trains, show that we have fun...egads ...dare I say
it....show a layout with an "O" Thomas....0-27 like or whater is the combo
of bigger trains on smaller S track and accessories..but GET THE KIDS IN
!!! What IS....IS...if we aint got it...work around it.... If an
S Thomas appears...better still!!!

Reality says that "S" proabably wont be big in the entry hobbyist race...we
wont have 'those' numbers.....

In meantime it PUTT does a little blue train...woohoo go fot it PUTT.
I have to admit when I go to the shops...and see in the toy section ( as
oft to visit...hey..I got kids....my excuse!!)..and see those little
packaged HO/OO sets..all plastic ( sic) with some generic design of
loco...some cross between a Mongolian steam and french retro I think..2
carraiges and/or a caboose ( of theatrical evolution).....an accessory or
two...lil people....a cow or two and crossbuck...all boxed on shelf for
$9.99...( and thats our Aussie peso too guys )..you have to wonder what
might be !!!!!! Someones isnt doing it to lose money...that box only need
be 2.5 times more volume...and maybe same for price..and hey..BINGO...it
doesnt have to be perfect...........just 1:64...!!!!!

Go on some one tell me it cant be done ( well certainly not with our
money....Ill allow you...lol )..

The gentleman/s who allude to the original product...AF, Gilbert an so on
being TOYS....is on the money!!! They were are, always will be..TOYS...but
thats OK...TOYS sell....bigtime...much more than TRAINS !!

We need a TOY to sell ...not a starter set per se.....( just make it look
and run like a starter set....lol ...co-incidence value only *VBG*)

Well that my $2.00 worth....back to he house renovating...so I can have my
garage and hobby room back.

Lets see a whole scholl of shot fish ..and turkey al round for
thanksgiving !!! lol
So endeth the lesson
We can now all sing HYMN #1 out of the new train songbook.." all things
bright and BLUE-tiful...all locos big and small.......Bachmann makes a lot
for rail , just a shame its not our scale!!..... "

Nurse!!!!!. Oh Nurse.......

>:~))
Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 20842 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Starter Sets
"Starter Sets" is the thread that won't go away. There seems to be a
consensus that if only we could have affordable starter sets, S-gauge will
grow. $80, $100, $150, and every other arbitrary price point is chosen as
the springboard from which this rapid and wonderful growth will launch.

Rubbish!

No such thing will occur even if you sell them for eight bucks apiece and
throw in the buildings, people and cars. Well, no, maybe people would buy
the sets for the cars and throw away the rest.

Let's talk timing. Ask me why I'm the funniest guy in Northport. Go ahead,
ask me.
(You:) "OK, why are you the funniest guy i . . ."

TIMING! (he exclaimed).

Was Lawrence Welk once a big time bandleader? Is his music played now? No,
I don't mean by you and all the other old farts. I mean: by the public. Do
people go out and seek his recordings? Is he on the charts? Or has he
dropped off the horizon and only remains alive in scratchy old memories?

Hula hoops. Wow! If ever something caught the imagination of the public,
hula hoops sure did. They still sell them. Is anybody lining up to buy
them? Are they filling their shopping carts with hoops and Cabbage Patch
dolls and Tickle Me Elmos? They do sell some of those things at Target and
K-Mart and Toys-R-Us. At one time, you had to be on a waiting list, and
could only buy two, and had to pay over retail. Today, they go on sale.
There is always stock available.

Timing.

S-Gauge trains were the minority of minorities. Then, one day, Alfred
Carlton Gilbert decided to manufacture his toy train line in this minority
gauge and he turned the world of electric trains on its ear. Producing
S-Trains against his biggest 0 gauge competitor, Gilbert stoked the
imagination of a general public who were already fired up on model steamers.
Real trains were fading from the scene. Toy trains were keeping the glamour
of railroading alive. The tie-in with the Christmas holiday season made a
train set the perfect gift. Trains were simple enough for a kid to run, yet
complicated enough to keep an adult interested. Families, read that as
"women", adopted the trains into their holiday decorating scheme, and into
their family life, as a binding agent to keep the kids at home in the
playroom with Dad. S-gauge was still a minority, but it rode the wave of
toy train fever and added it's own spice to the mix.

Timing.

Many Neo-Nazi groups keep springing up, spewing their hatred into the air.
But they never amount to much. Why? Timing. This isn't the Weimar
Republic still reeling under the weight of a crippling surrender treaty. So
people are not ready to accept an absolute ruler who will declare war on the
world and on minority groups everywhere. Well, at least S-Gauge is safe
from that!

Timing.

The general public is mildly amused by trains. They remember that Grampa
had nice trains (boy they sure were heavy!) and they, too, would like to
have some trains around the tree at Christmas. Maybe HO. They're all HO,
aren't they? What's the difference between HO and Grandpa's Lionels anyway?
Hey, these big trains are nice, and Bachmann is a big name, isn't it?

Lionel is building for guys like you. So, frankly, is most everyone else.
They're all preaching to the choir. The members of the choir, because they
are numerous, have convinced themselves that there is a renaissance
happening and that the party extends to the whole world. The whole world
is not much interested in trains, however. They fly or drive just about
everywhere. Trains are a commuters nightmare, a reminder of the daily
grind, not of faraway places. People don't much go anymore on vacations to
Cleveland to visit the relatives for two weeks. They fly to the Grand
Caymans to lie in the sun like rich people did in the 1930's. Dirty, filthy
steam engines do not fascinate children who do not see them daily. Sure,
the kids love the couple dozen steamers that get fired for excursions on
museum trackage, but where are all the grungy little teakettles that used to
switch the yards? In fact, where are the yards?

Timing -- The public is no longer trying to hang on to the glamour of
railroading, they're trying to hang on to the money they lost in the NASDAQ.

Timing -- People don't know their elbow from a semaphore when it comes to
gauge. Engines are still rated by the pound.

Timing -- The demand curve is low. There is no public craze for trains.
Nobody just has to have one. Even the X-Box has had to face that reality.

Timing -- There is a glut of product out there and it is chasing a limited
number of jaded buyers. This is our world, not THE world, and even in the
big universe of 0 gauge, the limits are real.

Timing -- Our leading manufacturers are trying to produce more wonderful
high end stuff to satisfy our need to collect a prodigious amount of
essentially useless junk that makes us feel good. If they must diversify
now to tilt after the starter set windmills of your mindset, they will
spread themselves icy thin on this rapidly melting market.

Forget S-gauge starter sets. They are a bad idea. I don't want to buy one.
Do you? For what? So you can run a low end toy in with your Trainmaster AA
and your ESE in chrome and black? Lionel already makes starter sets; low
end, bad looking 0 gauge crap that makes a fine under tree decoration to win
Mom's approval. If the kids who get one and play with it actually become a
part of the hobby, they will research trains and gauges and make their own
choices. If they never go beyond a single loop around the tree, so be it.
They will never know S.

The idea that low priced S-gauge sets will advance the gauge into the future
is an anachronism at best; poorly timed and not well thought out. When a
businessman tells you that nobody buys S gauge, don't get insulted. He's
right. There might be a few thousand of us nobodies, but we live in a world
of billions and a train world of millions.

Let's concentrate our efforts on building the high end. Let the low end
take care of itself. Think like businessmen instead of like special
interest acolytes. There is no room for starter sets in this gauge.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20843 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: High endstuff
Let's concentrate our efforts on building the high end. Let the low end
take care of itself. Think like businessmen instead of like special
interest acolytes. There is no room for starter sets in this gauge.

I'm 45 getting laid off the 9th of sept. I can't afford High End crap. Give
me some more starter sets. Please! I think I'm losing it!!!!!!! CB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20844 From: Richard Snook Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: its all in the timing!! da da..boom boom
Timing etc :-)

Do we need a starter set??

Are trains relevant ??

X-BOX...remember wh n it was a boxcar?? Lol ..

Chris as always raises the bar in our collective thinking...

Will S continue as a niche , alittel aside from
mainstream...probably...will S continue as the multi faceted gem of a
scale/ guage ( sounds better than divieded following !!
)...yep...probably for many years to come...

Does S need a starter set to survive....actually ....probably...NO.
Will many missout on experiencing what we have difficulty putting into
words....but just no as " S is the beSt Scale"...then...YES.. I dare say
YES...if they arent expose to it...and get to play with it.

Do we NEED a starter set ?? NO
Could we USE one....hi diddly oh for sure !!! good neighbour !!! (sorry!!
Lol )

Do we seriously equate the 10 buck box of bits labeled - HO trainset to a
V & O incarnation....who's kidding whom??...of course not.....as the ol
saying goes....you'll never never know...if you never have a go!!!..If a
child never touches,plays, experiences that"something" that is playing
trains...then odds on...they NEVER NEVER be a train-hobbyist of any sort.

In the conventional sphere..we will never get our 5c cigar.....just not
on...not from within..anyway.....could we use another hobby's accessory
thats 1:64 orientated...and happen to look and roll like a train...well
...I'd certainly go stand in the YES-LINE...how could it hurt.

TIMING....very much the answer..as well as the dillemma...pop-quiz.....when
did 99% of us all, first get to do the train thing for ourselves??? (
think red...reindeers, Grinch!!)...thats when to strike...and its still
when the 'other' toys are introduced to many for the first time.

IT JUST WONT GO AWAY !! ....probably a good reason for that......its
unresolved..and many would like to see it fixed.

Trains are a pastime requiring time and money....( the obvious said)....why
a starter set....because every marketing person will tel you...you need to
hook the lifetime customer in with bait.....an entry level sample of the
ilk!!...cars do it, houses do it, TV's do it......even ...do it !!!
sorry...carried away !!...lol

DO we really stand a bulls roar of a chance in getting our
perceived 'cure-all"...NO.....because thats not what it is...
Train sets werent introduced by any manufactirer of any era to SAVE the
company....or hobby......they were done so to introduce newbies....nothing
more...nothing less.
Do we have anything in S that does this...to the real newbie...NO...and who
is that pending newbie anyway??

No steamers down the yard....so trains are in the collective psche ??...id
probably concur...to a point...those halycon days are indeed behind
us...yes Martha that century has gone....and yet.

Turn around...and be railroaded by a RED british passenger train...that we
muggles cant even catch !!...step aside lad...the Fat controller
spruiks....over here , up the road ( well almost ) a well preserved narrow
guage ..GROWS in awe and custom every year ( and has a blue, wide eyed
faced variant for special days)...they arent in the yards anymore...coz
the yards arent down the street anymore...they are on the screens, big and
small....at the museums.....live and still.

My kids love catching THAT diesel to go for a picnic . Doesnt bellow
smoke ( its a GM....lol..not GE ) like those old-timers...but its "awesome
daddy!!" the words of an 8 yo...
the two little tikes have 'puters, have lego ( sophisticated and
plain) have all sorts of things...and what do I see them playing with
most...the trains...they mix tehErtl stuff with Lego..withthe Flyer...THEY
dont care !! their imagination glosses over all
OUR inconsistancies...They are playing...with trains..making up
stories...the trains are a vehicle to that story !!

A trainset under a xmas tree are a start to a journey of a lifetime of
play...its a toy...it needs to be fairly accessible monetarily.....it
doesnt need to be made by a train-hobby manufacturer.

Its a widget..with wheels !!! lol

Starter sets....Id like to see that......



Barbie has them..... even bloody MacDonalds has them...and they got it SO
wrong...didnt they!!

>:~))
Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 20845 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Sets
Chris,
I have to agree with you, you do not need a starter set. You
are already in. There is a need if I read the post correctly that one guy
says people ask where they can get trains like the ones they just saw
running. I know that a large mfg. will not be able to sell starter sets. I
myself see a small market for starter sets that use referbed engines & used
cars. Add on cars & track will be inexpensive. In the started set flyers from
the major guys like SHS & AM would help the person that gets "Hooked" along
with repair & hobby shops. I will attempt this venture. Why not? not much to
get started, & if some that set up layouts at shows will help out by giving
out a printed flyer with a web site & PICS & prices of the sets & acc. It
just might work to some degree. It's not a big $$ making thing but can be
done,. Mike S.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20846 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: More Comments About Starter Sets
Since I am the one who started this thread (at least
this time around), I feel that I have to add a little
perspective.

1. SHS sets DO NOT sell to the starting public unless
they really do not care about cost. We have one or
more SHS starter sets as well as the AM Amtrak "set"
on display and for sale every time we set up our
modular displays with the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers
(6-8 times per year), and have NEVER sold one of these
sets at one of these shows. We do get lookers at
these shows, but the only sets that have sold have
been at VTC (VA Train Collectors) or TCA meets or out
of my shop.

[This is not to knock these sets: they are beautiful
and well worth the money, but the buying public
generally does not buy them as starter sets--at least
not in the Atlantic Coast area.]

2. Several of you have stated that you think that an
inexpensive starter set using mostly existing tooling
cannot have some quality and realism. The Marx 3/16
cars are closer to S in both size and realism than the
AF old time locos, the Casey Jones, the F-9s, the
handcar, and the Pikemaster cars, and most accesories,
but most of you own at least one of these. Such
inexpensive starter sets can be done, but I am not
saying that it will be done. The idea about Mattell
sounds great, especially if they could get the Marx
tooling from K-Line since they do not seem to want to
use it. [Chris, these are not the 2-axle cars with
integral molded on sideframes. These are 3/16 inch
scale boxcars, reefers, hoppers and gondolas with
floors and trucks.]

3. Several persons have indicated that they would not
buy this starter set "junk". Well, they are probably
right. But they are adults, many of whom are trying
to relive their youth by now buying what they could
not get when they were young or able to buy the nice
"scale" stuff that is now available. How many of you
received a bottom of the line AF set as your first
set? Is that what you ended with? Is it what you
would my today. My first set was a Marx M-1000
articulated with a circle of track and a 25-watt
transformer. But I grew up, got rid of that training
(third) rail, and got a used AF set when I was about 8
years old. We need more kids starting in trains of
every gauge, or else this hobby is going to die and
will become a group of only collectors, not operators.


Thanks for letting me offer my reactions. I have
enjoyed ALL of the comments, even those with which I
disagree. Thanks to all for maintaining civility
during this discussion.

Joe


=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 20847 From: roy inman Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: S starter sets
Chris, et al:
But this is just the point-
We aren't going go buy one for us, but for our kids, grandkids, nieces and
nephews.
And that train the youngin' gets for Christmas, as you have so eloquently
pointed out in a previous post, "imprints" you for life. (Or rather, it can
have that effect; nothing is guaranteed.)
That is why S starter sets-cheap ones-are necessary.
And speaking of timing, I read in the Wall Street Journal that model
trains/toy trains are the fastest growing hobby in America... :)
Roy Inman


Forget S-gauge starter sets. They are a bad idea. I don't want to buy one.
Do you? For what? So you can run a low end toy in with your Trainmaster AA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20848 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 8/28/2002
Subject: More Comments About Starter Sets
Since I am the one who started this thread (at least
this time around), I feel that I have to add a little
perspective.

1. SHS sets DO NOT sell to the starting public unless
they really do not care about cost. We have one or
more SHS starter sets as well as the AM Amtrak "set"
on display and for sale every time we set up our
modular displays with the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers
(6-8 times per year), and have NEVER sold one of these
sets at one of these shows. We do get lookers at
these shows, but the only sets that have sold have
been at VTC (VA Train Collectors) or TCA meets or out
of my shop.

[This is not to knock these sets: they are beautiful
and well worth the money, but the buying public
generally does not buy them as starter sets--at least
not in the Atlantic Coast area.]

2. Several of you have stated that you think that an
inexpensive starter set using mostly existing tooling
cannot have some quality and realism. The Marx 3/16
cars are closer to S in both size and realism than the
AF old time locos, the Casey Jones, the F-9s, the
handcar, and the Pikemaster cars, and most accesories,
but most of you own at least one of these. Such
inexpensive starter sets can be done, but I am not
saying that it will be done. The idea about Mattell
sounds great, especially if they could get the Marx
tooling from K-Line since they do not seem to want to
use it. [Chris, these are not the 2-axle cars with
integral molded on sideframes. These are 3/16 inch
scale boxcars, reefers, hoppers and gondolas with
floors and trucks.]

3. Several persons have indicated that they would not
buy this starter set "junk". Well, they are probably
right. But they are adults, many of whom are trying
to relive their youth by now buying what they could
not get when they were young or able to buy the nice
"scale" stuff that is now available. How many of you
received a bottom of the line AF set as your first
set? Is that what you ended with? Is it what you
would my today. My first set was a Marx M-1000
articulated with a circle of track and a 25-watt
transformer. But I grew up, got rid of that training
(third) rail, and got a used AF set when I was about 8
years old. We need more kids starting in trains of
every gauge, or else this hobby is going to die and
will become a group of only collectors, not operators.


Thanks for letting me offer my reactions. I have
enjoyed ALL of the comments, even those with which I
disagree. Thanks to all for maintaining civility
during this discussion.

Joe


=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
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Group: S-Trains Message: 20849 From: jahoozdumm Date: 8/29/2002
Subject: Re: More Comments About Starter Sets
Joseph Haenn Wrote:

>Since I am the one who started this thread

Ah-HAH! Arrest that man!! :^)

>SHS sets DO NOT sell to the starting public unless
>they really do not care about cost.

Y'know, it's a strange thing, but SHS stuff is so good looking and so
detailed, it's almost as if people EXPECT it to be "too expensive."
When we have done shows that have also been attended by an SHS
dealer, we've pointed people who ask about S product in the dealer's
direction. Often, parents looking to "get their kids a set" do a poor
job of concealing their own interest in "playing with trains," but
still they do have the notion of letting the kids play too. SHS
quality sometimes actually scares them off. "Oh, that's not a bad
price, but those are WAY too good for my kids!" We try to show them
the durability of the stuff, but the level of detailing still
concerns them. Not that I'd want SHS to dumb down their line, but
their high level of detail does seem to work against the "starter set
for kids" niche.

Time and time again, though, people ask us where they can get the
stuff. You think everyday folks don't know about size and
proportions? Not in terms of math equations maybe, but they sure know
when they SEE S in operation that it is indeed "The Right Size." Why
don't they buy it? A few do, but those who don't have a pretty narrow
range of reasons for backing away, mostly:

1. Too expensive to get started (or buy for kids.)

2. Not enough variety of product. ("There's lots more stuff in gauge
X.")

3. Not sold at TRU/Kaybee/FAO Schwartz/Wherever

#3 is, I think, the least of the problems. It would be easier to
change after #2 and especially #1 were remedied.


>The Marx 3/16 cars are closer to S in both size and realism than the
>AF old time locos, the Casey Jones, the F-9s, the handcar, and the
>Pikemaster cars,

The problem with the Marx tooling is that there is no matching 1/64
locomotive to complete the set. The Marx idea was floated by some of
us as a bridge to suggest a direction for K-line to follow, but of
course, as they see things, K-line has no incentive to do S any more
than Lionel, and Lionel DOES have some bona-fide S tooling.


>The idea about Mattell sounds great, especially if they could get
>the Marx tooling from K-Line

Mattel wouldn't need the old Marx tooling. Consider the fact that
over the years Mattel has brought out at least three different toy
train formats of their own, with varied success. The first was very
fanciful, with a wind-up motor. The second was a push-around type
with plastic track, fairly prototypical, but too small, being only
slightly larger than N scale, not at all compatible with their line
of Hot Wheels cars. Didn't sell too well, you could find them in
clearance aisles often. On the third try in Y2K (the set I mentioned
before,) they came very close to "getting it right." The $40 battery
powered infra-red remote-controlled sets spent little time on
Target's shelves. ALL of them were sold quickly, both in 2000 and
2001. I don't know how many sets were made, but from what I could see
Mattel didn't need to take any back, that's for sure. The trains
had "tons" of play value, and Mattel wisely interfaced the equipment
to work directly with Hot Wheels cars and playsets, even going so far
as to put a buildable car with an "Auto Factory" in the set.

The sets weaknesses as a long term starter are several: another
fanciful, non-prototype design; no other train cars to add; battery
power (although the infra-red remote system works well, making the
train easy to operate, batteries don't last forever.)

But Mattel got so many things right, it's amazing. They're SO close!
If the stuff was just aimed a little higher, if it was prototypical
and would work on "wall power," if it was...what? 1/64th scale? "Hey!
call product developement. Do we already make ANY toys that are even
near 1/64th scale? we DO ?!? What? Just about every $1 toy car we've
ever made since 1968 you say? Hmmmm..."

I can't help hoping that someday, somebody at Mattel will have a
light come on in their head. They already know kids still like toy
trains, they just haven't struck the right combination. They are
moving in the right direction, it appears.

Who would by S starter sets, even if the right kind existed? Many
people whom I have personally spoken with at shows and a couple of
family members I have, for starters. I myself would have bought at
least one. We bought one of the new Mattel sets for my nephew. He
liked it a lot, but he still prefers S gauge. "Unca Chuck, I really
like your trains..."


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20851 From: Don Thompson Date: 8/29/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Sets - Penultimate comment
Dear Joe,
I suspect things may be different in NC. Maybe it is the demographics, or maybe
your marketing. But we sold more starter sets at the NMRA National Train Show in
Ft. Lauderdale last month than any previous show. I think we sold 12. We did focus
on these with a display made of three 30" X 96" tables back to back that had two
concentric loops with cross overs (30" and 25" radius) and a starter set loop with
the starter set trains (Seaboard naturally) and our little power pack running it.
The two outer loops had A-B Southern F-3 with sound (the bell ringing most of the
time and the kids blowing the whistle when they would come over to the controls. We
also had a stack of starter sets around the oval to show the different sets that
could be purchased. Now don't forget, across the row from us was Tom Robinson with
his layout and Milo/Bill's Great kids S layout another 25 feet away. I am not sure
why they sell better for us, but we usually sell at least one or two every show. We
sold as many a 6 last winter in Springfield., MA. And, most of these are to non-S
Gaugers.
Some people cannot afford our stuff, I am sorry I wish I could lower our prices,
but then we would have little if any money to reinvest. I know lots of kids who
ended up with Marx as their parents could not afford AF or "L". I cannot compete
with $25 HO sets from Toys are Us. Nor do we try. I think that we are doing the
best we can with the equipment we make. I would be surprised if we would sell the
needed quantify of an items to pay off the tooling if the car lacked as much detail
as current "L" AF or the old Marz stuff. Remember, to make starter sets, I think
you would need to have your tooling amortized.
Don

Joseph Haenn wrote:

> Since I am the one who started this thread (at least
> this time around), I feel that I have to add a little
> perspective.
>
> 1. SHS sets DO NOT sell to the starting public unless
> they really do not care about cost. We have one or
> more SHS starter sets as well as the AM Amtrak "set"
> on display and for sale every time we set up our
> modular displays with the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers
> (6-8 times per year), and have NEVER sold one of these
> sets at one of these shows. We do get lookers at
> these shows, but the only sets that have sold have
> been at VTC (VA Train Collectors) or TCA meets or out
> of my shop.
>
> [This is not to knock these sets: they are beautiful
> and well worth the money, but the buying public
> generally does not buy them as starter sets--at least
> not in the Atlantic Coast area.]
>
> 2. Several of you have stated that you think that an
> inexpensive starter set using mostly existing tooling
> cannot have some quality and realism. The Marx 3/16
> cars are closer to S in both size and realism than the
> AF old time locos, the Casey Jones, the F-9s, the
> handcar, and the Pikemaster cars, and most accesories,
> but most of you own at least one of these. Such
> inexpensive starter sets can be done, but I am not
> saying that it will be done. The idea about Mattell
> sounds great, especially if they could get the Marx
> tooling from K-Line since they do not seem to want to
> use it. [Chris, these are not the 2-axle cars with
> integral molded on sideframes. These are 3/16 inch
> scale boxcars, reefers, hoppers and gondolas with
> floors and trucks.]
>
> 3. Several persons have indicated that they would not
> buy this starter set "junk". Well, they are probably
> right. But they are adults, many of whom are trying
> to relive their youth by now buying what they could
> not get when they were young or able to buy the nice
> "scale" stuff that is now available. How many of you
> received a bottom of the line AF set as your first
> set? Is that what you ended with? Is it what you
> would my today. My first set was a Marx M-1000
> articulated with a circle of track and a 25-watt
> transformer. But I grew up, got rid of that training
> (third) rail, and got a used AF set when I was about 8
> years old. We need more kids starting in trains of
> every gauge, or else this hobby is going to die and
> will become a group of only collectors, not operators.
>
> Thanks for letting me offer my reactions. I have
> enjoyed ALL of the comments, even those with which I
> disagree. Thanks to all for maintaining civility
> during this discussion.
>
> Joe
>
> =====
> Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
> 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
> Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
> Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
> American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
> Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
> joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa
>
> __________________________________________________
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-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
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Group: S-Trains Message: 20852 From: Mark Preman Date: 8/29/2002
Subject: Reproduction Reproducer Production!
How's that for a title? I am pleased to announce that
the reproduction reproducer for the Gilbert talking
stations(early and late) will (finally) be available
early this fall at a retail price of $39.95 plus
shipping. This piece will faithfully produce the
sounds from the original records. I am now accepting
orders. Mark

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 20853 From: Richard Snook Date: 8/29/2002
Subject: Chuck's words on Mattel
Given that we must churn this topic a little more before putting it to
bed for a while....I was impressed by the thinking here by C.F.

Im not familiar with the particular Mattel set..havent seen it down
here...( and I dont miss much)...but you would have to agree that something
1:64 would be right up their alley.. seems they only need to taken in
hand and shown the promised land..hallelujah !!!You folks done need a new
train set....yes sirree ....my wordy wordy!!! lol

Seriously....someone closer there ought to write them...
Many years back...the Colonials amongst us ( Canucks counted here...lol )
will remember the MINIC motorway that Triang/Hornby brought out to interact
with their trains..a moderate success in its day...wasnt like slot cars per
se..though exact same mechanics..scale was 1:72 to match the trains ( OO )

NOW ...now !! as MAttel already have huge ...mega..Ginormous customer
base with their cars...you would have to think that there would have to be
some sort of market...for a Train set of sorts to match...same scale...of
course...and lets get fair dinkum here as long as its with in a bulls roar
of scale-like...but looks LIKE a real train...then we have a winner all
round...the kids arent ( probably ) going to rivet count !!!..They want
action....colour etc

Now as the mathemeticians amongst you lot will know...all car collectors
will probably buy some mattel, but not all collectors will buy trains... (
one being a sub group of other..lol )....but not knowing what real numbers
are here....conjecture !! ( lovely word possums!!)..leads me to think..if
they could sell a lot of the other-funny set.....well maybe they could sell
a few better ( read closer to real S..) sets!!...sure put the flashing
lights on....even have a smashem up derby box car..car screams around hot
wheels track....lines up the box car..and in tru BOND style etc..straight
through.....the toy designers could have a field day!! lol..

think the pills are wearing off again


>:~))
Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 20854 From: Richard Snook Date: 8/29/2002
Subject: sorry..another thought
Actually we have the nucleus of product under our noses...Ertl HAVE the
parts...just not right configuration....
Take there Geep...put some sort of standard fare Orignal like Athearn type
drive under thing...have boxcars..caboose eetc ..all assembled ..in..wait
for it.....you'll never guess....China...have some sort of track
made...maybe a bulk deal of something from
AM..or SHS...transformer-controller ( these arent expensive in
china!!)...VOILA...
Some companies ..under certain conditions ..will lease their molds !!

I know...I know...sounds easy....but !!!

the wheel need not be re-invented here....just sraightened out..and pumped
up !!

cheers
>:~))
Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 20855 From: Michael Greene Date: 8/29/2002
Subject: Re: sorry..another thought
This is a good idea. It prompted me to go upstairs and open up the box on
an ERTL Farm Country Freight Train Set and have a look...

Seems like if this set:
- had a loco powered by a transformer instead of batteries
- perhaps better wheelsets on the cars (but may not be necessary)
- better track & turnout
- new power unit & trucks for the loco
it would have good play value.

I have not yet put mine together, but it looks to be a snap(pun intended).
And quite a lot for the price -- the store I bought them in had them marked
$49.99 and reduced to $19.99 to close them out. Of course to add the above
would move the price up a bit. The tooling looks pretty nice. Has anyone
actually upgraded one of these sets?

Michael

At 09:18 AM 8/30/2002 +1000, Richard Snook wrote:
>Actually we have the nucleus of product under our noses...Ertl HAVE the
>parts...just not right configuration....
>Take there Geep...put some sort of standard fare Orignal like Athearn type
>drive under thing...have boxcars..caboose eetc ..all assembled ..in..wait
>for it.....you'll never guess....China...have some sort of track
>made...maybe a bulk deal of something from
>AM..or SHS...transformer-controller ( these arent expensive in
>china!!)...VOILA...
> Some companies ..under certain conditions ..will lease their molds !!
>
>I know...I know...sounds easy....but !!!
>
>the wheel need not be re-invented here....just sraightened out..and pumped
>up !!
>
>cheers
> >:~))
>Richard

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Greene Dunstable, MA, USA
Member: NMRA(Life), NASG, Bristol S Gaugers, NTRAK, TCA, The 470 Railroad
Club

Bristol S Gaugers http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com
National Assoc. of S Gaugers http://www.nasg.org
Maine Railroads (including DCC Corner) http://www.mainerailroads.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Group: S-Trains Message: 20856 From: Richard Snook Date: 8/29/2002
Subject: Ertl-ing along
A composite of emails to Mike...thought id share with all


....................
The more I think of this the more I think...it could work....not without
effort...but....
A suitable mechanism...is NOT rocket science hey!!! ..doesnt need to be
AM-SHS standard...just you-beut workmanlike effort... can be mainly a
plastic frame.....I mean HO have had some rough -simple drives in their
train set locos..why change a winning formula ???... we arent making or
selling high-end here...its going to be a very agricultural ( sorry bout
pun ) sort of effort..ITS a TOY-TRAINSET !!...I had one sent to me from
stateside....kids love it...now if only it ran like Daddy's...!!!!!...if
they can make a cheap and nasty slot car set....for 1-15
bucks...surely....surely......in place of transformer...simple
controller...using 4 "D" batteries..or such .. I mean...every Xmas toy
needs batteries !!...lol
variation on theme...leave rolling stock to assemble...have Loco RTR
...rest is giant assembly kit...ought to keep the little darlings quiet for
a while....lol..
geez this would all be sub $100 more like $75-80
food for thought isnt it !! :-))

.............

maybe...just maybe....now If NASG took it on as an umbrella
project.......maybe buy a set lot ( at good wholesale price )...have a
mechanism commisioned....source cheap contoller..( battery or other)....get
a deal on some track........a few working bee type evenings to rebox
...distribute to clubs at cost plus expenses......."excuse me ...are there
any starter sets??...yes mam !! will that be cash or card !!!"
................
cheers
>:~))

Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 20857 From: Alan Evans Date: 8/29/2002
Subject: Items on Sale
Please contact me off line if interested in the following at special
prices:

AM Scale chrome Santa Fe E-8, number 83, test run only

SHS F-3 Southern A-B set, new in box (never run) - 2 sets

SHS F-3 Erie Lackawanna A-B set, new in box (never run)

SHS Cabooses: Burlington 13591

Chessie 3202

AM AC Hi Rail SD-60, 5558 wide cab, test run only

KD 802 (black) and 808 (brown) couplers

Thanks.

Alan Evans (614-471-7277)






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20858 From: Alex Sibbald Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Starter Sets
Hi all,
This has been an interesting topic and so here is my contribution. Scale
enthusiasts may want to move to their next email now. If you really want
to interest kids today you can't wait until they are 5 or 6 years old.
By that time they have play stations, action figures, skateboards,
computers, web games, television, and see probably very few trains. I
found that to get the young interested, they must interact somehow with
the whole operation. When they are 3 or 4 years old and still absorbing
everything, Lego people fit their hands well. And they can create
buildings and bridges and take them for train rides, and Lego people are
not much taller than the guys operating my 740 handcar. The 641 gondola
fits 8 rows of 1 or 2 Lego people per row with backrests. And the green
cars look great with my green 650 passenger train. The grandkids don't
notice any disparities in size. S figures are too small for this age
group and Legos plug in so they are easy to keep in place. By the way,
the Harry Potter inspired "Hogwart Express" train set made with Legos is
extremely close to S gauge in size. The engine is the same height and
width and 1" shorter than a 302 and the passenger car is the same width
and length as a 633 boxcar. It stands about 1/2" taller. Lego already
offers several build-your-own train stations (such as Gringotts) as well
as many buildings and vehicles. How about creating U make it rolling
stock created with a Lego style platform built on S gauge trucks with
knuckle couplers. How about a build your own engine kit with multiple
accessory and decal options. Run it on Dad's or Granddad's layout.
Operating accessories...the mind boggles. As the kids get older they can
transition to scale models to further build their skills and self
confidence. And all this on S gauge infrastructure. If the items sell
well then starter sets will just be one of many profitable spin-offs!
Grab them young and they will never let go.
Cheers,
Alex(innotron)
Group: S-Trains Message: 20859 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Re: sorry. a Flyer question
Hey guys, A question about American Flyer! I have a tender chassis with
link $ pin trucks that have 3 springs shown on the side frames. They are
also 1/4" longer then the 2 spring L & P truck. I also found another pair
of these longer trucks. Can any of you AF history buffs tells us about
these trucks? Thanks,
Ken

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 20860 From: rfgiardina Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Starter Sets
Both AM and SHS might have solved this issue with a different
manufacturing philosophy. Other manufactures also, with an eye on a
wider market, which included Scale as well as original American Flyer.

It is not only necessary, to find new people or to introduce
youngsters to American Flyer or "S", but to reinvigorate an interest
in the many thousand of people who bought American Flyer, in
the '40s, '50s and '60s.

A starter set is fine, but what to do after that? Scale, HiRail,
Original American Flyer, AC or DC and how do they fit together, if at
all?

Bob Giardina
Group: S-Trains Message: 20861 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Sets
In a message dated 8/30/02 4:57:27 AM, innotron@... writes:

<< How about creating U make it rolling stock created with a Lego style
platform built on S gauge trucks with knuckle couplers. How about a build
your own engine kit .. <snip> As the kids get older they can transition to
scale models to further build their skills and self confidence. And all this
on S gauge infrastructure. If the items sell well then starter sets will just
be one of many profitable spin-offs!
Grab them young and they will never let go. Cheers, Alex(innotron) >>

Good post.

The standout layout, by the way, at the TCA convention was a large Lego
layout built and operated by a group of young teenagers. They had combined
both stock Lego "kits" with other Lego items and had created several
operating accessories, rolling stock and engines -- not unlike combining
Erector and Flyer trains, but moved a half a century hence. And, yes, they
had the Harry Potter inspired "Hogwart Express" train set made with Legos,
which the young ones just loved. Pure toy train fun -- I now have visions of
folks chasing M/OB Lego trains in Blue Hall 50 years from now. Not directly S
gauge related, but this type of play does provide an enticing route for kids
into "the hobby" in the broader sense of the term.

Well, there does this lead to in S? Lionel has much of the tooling and a
brand that is "magic", but not the spare capital to do S big. SHS and AM
starter sets are aimed at age groups other than the prime entry age (4 - 7).
They have limited play value and have the 'feel' of large HOs. To make
matters worse, AM trains are easily broken in the hands of even relatively
careful youngsters. Neither brand opens up an avenue to a broad selection of
additional trains and accessories to expand one's budding youthful empire --
I would have found the current aggregate selection of what is available in S
very frustrating when I was a kid (as I do now!). In short, they are trains
for grownups. The implications of these thoughts and the marketplace in
general is that S has transmogrified into one of the adult gauges with
greater attention to scale, similar to how HO stands when it is seriously
taken up as a pastime.

If I were to buy a set of trains for a youngster I cared about this afternoon
(and not in possession of a pile of vintage Gilbert as I am), it wouldn't be
S. The Lego route is an intriguing option, and the selection, value, and
durability in 0 is mind-boggling. An S starter set without a full selection
of other goodies with play value could be an exercise in frustration and
might actually turn the kid off to the hobby. Given the current situation, S
will grow from adult (and the occasional teenage) converts, as will the
future collection and operation of vintage Gilbert S.

IMHO.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20862 From: Rick Evans Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Fall/Halloween layout time.....
Just received the Oct. issue of CTT.....Yep, it's gettin' close to the time to start lookin'
for that Halloween tree, large pumpkin to carve with a tunnel, and dust off the haunted house
for the ol' Fall/Halloween layout!!
Gosh,...seems like I just did the Spring layout!!!


Rick.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20863 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Still Timing
Joseph Haenn said:
>My first set was a Marx M-1000 articulated with a circle of track and a
25-watt
>transformer. But I grew up, got rid of that training (third) rail, and got
a used AF set when I >was about 8 years old.

And you discovered S gauge when you were ready to graduate from the starter
set. It was about timing in your growth and perceptions.

Don Thompson said:
>we sold more starter sets at the NMRA National Train Show in
>Ft. Lauderdale last month than any previous show. I think we sold 12. We
did focus
>on these with a display made of three 30" X 96" tables back to back that
had two
>concentric loops with cross overs (30" and 25" radius) and a starter set
loop with
>the starter set trains.

That's a lot of layout display to sell 12 trainsets. In 1952, Macy's layout
sold that many sets in an hour or less, every hour, every day, throughout
the holiday season. And Don's trains are nicer! It's all about timing in
the marketplace.

Roy Inman said:
>And speaking of timing, I read in the Wall Street Journal that model
>trains/toy trains are the fastest growing hobby in America.

But who's buying? They should have said that it's the fastest re-growing
hobby in America. All those grown kids who remember long lost trainsets are
buying them now to recapture the moments of their youth and share them with
their children and grandchildren. These are people with a bit more
disposable income than their parents could muster. And most of them
remember one thing -- Lionel. Big L is reaping the benefit in all kinds of
sets, from starter to sophisticated. The grown up kids who remember Flyer
find out quickly enough that Lionel is still around and Flyer is not. LTI
Flyer is a secret shared between the enemy (Lionel) and us (the dyed in the
wool Flyer romantics.) They keep making a few pieces for us while hiding
the existence of the line from the general public. If anyone could crank
out a starter set, Lionel could. But they don't want to dilute their 0
gauge action and they now own all the S dies. Timing.

Mike S. Said:
>There is a need, if I read the post correctly, that one guy
>says, people ask where they can get trains like the ones they just saw
running.

Now I'm going to take a shot at Don and Ron, our heroes. This is something
that must be addressed. I worked the Crescent City booth for a little while
at the New Orleans TCA meet last November. I was running Flyer and SHS and
AM in mixed trains. People crowded around. Kid's noseprints were all over
the plexiglas. Moms and Dads wanted info on the trains.

The biggest question: "Where can I buy a complete and ready to run set?"

Here's the answer we were able to give: "There are great sets available
from SHS, loaded with details and durable, blah, blah, wonderful blah. No,
I'm sorry, we don't have any literature here, but let me write down a number
you can call on this scrap of brown paper bag. No, American Flyer is only
made in a few pieces every year by Lionel and American Models doesn't make
complete sets, well kind of complete but no transformer and . . . hello . .
. no wait, come back. They're really nice, I swear."

Lionel 0 gauge trains are available in every flavor, from a crappy little
steamer with one car and a caboose, a circle of track and a transformer, to
exotic articulated steamers with smoke and sound and lights and remote
controls to make you swoon. They are just about 100% compatible with the
full lines of trains available from MTH, K-Line, Weaver, Williams, even
Marx. All of which offer a panoply of sets and pieces in dizzying array.

The general public is not going to prioritize scale over availability,
variety, warranties, interchangability, and a long recognized name brand.
And it really feels like impotence when we have them, in our hands, ready to
sell them on S gauge, and we can't even hand them one of those really slick
SHS catalogs. I loved Flyer in print. I lived for those catalogs. All I
had was an Atlantic 302 starter set, but in my mind, the Santa Fe passenger
streamliner was just around the corner. (Amazingly, it arrived on Christmas
morning, 1956!) Of course. I was Gilbert's best salesman. It was easy
because I HAD A CATALOG!

I was told by my friends in CCSG that SHS and AM refused their request for
catalogs, citing cost. (Don is a friend, so I hope he is going to take this
public shot in the spirit in which it is intended). There is no way SHS and
AM can afford to NOT give out catalogs. Don cannot be at every regional
train show with his layout. Each local S club, who sets up a module or a
booth at all these little events, is an emissary for the manufacturers and
for the gauge. Without those catalogs, there is only a single train
experience. The hand-out catalog codifies the moment, and builds a virtual
substance in the consumer's mind. When they have something they can take
home, pore over, drool upon and eventually sell themselves, that's how you
build a market base for S. Don's basic sets are as low on the starter set
spectrum anyone needs to go. Ron Bashista needs to go one step further. He
MUST get some transformer or power pack deal included with his sets. What's
wrong with those spine car sets for starters? No power, that's what. Also
Don and Ron need to get together on this track thing. Let's get one track
and stick with it. Variety may appeal to the afficionado, but the general
public finds it confusing. We need compatibility. When two divergent
companies work together, they appear to the public as one larger company.
Perception exceeds reality. The timing is now.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20864 From: Jay E. Mellon Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: S Catalogs
All,
In fairness to SHS and AM, I feel compelled to amplify a bit on the subject of catalogs in Chris Zizzo's most recent post. Chris did indeed help us work a TCA show last year, but the reason we did not distribute S promotional literature was NOT that our requests had been refused. It was because there was not room to set up a table for S promotional (including catalogs) literature near our display. SHS has generously given us catalogs to distribute to show attendees in the past. But, Don's policy is for clubs to sell the catalogs at cost ($3) and keep any revenues as a SHS donation to club activities. We honor that policy request. We do give away outdated SHS catalogs. At most shows, we sell several of the current SHS catalogs, but the freebies go like "hot cakes". To the best of my knowledge, AM does not produce a catalog (hard copy) of their current inventory. We have distributed brochures of specific AM products (e.g. Trailer Hauler Set) in the past. These and much other promotional S literature were provided generously by NASG (Thanks again J. Foley).

No, the main problem at shows, in my view, is not the distribution of S catalogs, but that there is no one at the show selling the products the attendees see running on our layout. (Yeah, I know. A number of people have suggested we become dealers. I'm not ready to take that road). Also, IMHO, S still needs an inexpensive ($100-150) starter set of durable S equipment to get kids (ages 6-12) into the hobby. We've got the others (12-adult) covered with the fine S products currently available.

So, Chris, are you coming back down this fall to help us with shows again? We have three in November. If you do, I promise, you will have catalogs to hawk to the crowds. :-)

'S'incerely,
Jay Mellon
Crescent City S Gaugers
New Orleans, LA
Group: S-Trains Message: 20865 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1564
Starter sets:
My first set, 1946, Pacific #310, cost my father $19.95, That starter
set was expensive. He was working for $2.00 per hr. (a good rate of pay
in that day), he had to work over 3 days to buy that set. Today a starter
set in the $200.00 dollar range I feel would be equivalent.
In my day, us kids built radios, developed the black and white photos we
took & other hands-on hobbies. I believe most kids now want computer
games and sports, not trains. Given time they will be back to a hands-on
type of hobby.

Jerry 77-11644

________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 20866 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: SETS
One way to really get kids interested in trains again is to have a movie
come out that the main character is a train nut & shows how much fun it it.
Or a father & son are shown playing with trains. Kids eat that type of stuff
up. The last movie I saw trains in the trains (L) were being run by a drug
dealer. I can't remember the name of the movie. There was another one that
Paul Newman was in & they were hockey players. The twin brothers were always
playing with an HO set. Not much impact there. But I really believe that if
it were popular in a HIT movie it would help the hobby. A long way to AF.
Mike S.
PS: I have done some figuring on starter sets & believe I can get one out for
just under 250 with a referbed Engine, new transformer, new cars (Maybe used)
You can get LTI for 20 to 25 EA new. The biggest problem is the track. New?
If new American Models would be my choice, but cost is a factor there.
Used cleantrack , Would people want that? I believe the referbed
engine is not that big a deal to most people Switches?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20867 From: The Reis's Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: F-7 American models engine wanted
I am looking for an American models F7 B unit in Northern Pacific green
Colors to add a 3rd engine to my A-B

High rail AC powered, not a dummy or sound, excellent condition.

I can buy a new one for about $160 so am looking for a price below that.

Might take an A unit instead for the right price. or maybe a powered A with
a sound B.

If anyone has an extra they want to get rid of please email me off list.

Thanks

Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20868 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, September 1, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page
http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 20869 From: flyerfreak1986 Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Royal Blue, Circus and silver bullet engines
Hi everybody,

Does any one have a 350 Royal Blue, Circus or Silver Bullet
engine in pretty good condition, that they want to sell? I have
received my Paycheck from school (which in not that big or frequent)
but I think it is enough to cover one of these engines. Well, thanks,

-Michael aka the 16 year old
Chicago, Il
Group: S-Trains Message: 20870 From: crosley19 Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: MY S GAUGE LAYOUT WEBSITE
For those who have not seen my S gauge layout website, here is the
link to it:
http://hometown.aol.com/kingmidg1/AMERICANFLYERWEBPAGE.html

I have a semi highrail/scale layout with American Flyer, and
American Models Locomotives, all D.C.C. equiped. If anybody has
questions on D.C.C. I am always happy to help.
Barry
Group: S-Trains Message: 20871 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Mattel Hot Wheels Trainset as Big Lots
Greetings,

Just saw several of the Mattel Hot Wheels Trainsets at Big Lots this
evening. They were priced at $29.99. They have 4 "accessories"
included. Car unloading station, Car loading station, crossing gate and
some sort of Hot Wheels curve thingy. Looks like fun. Oh, don't forget
the infrared remote. I doubt if it controlled speed, just stop, go,
forward and backward. From the packaging, it looks like they have other
Hot Wheels playsets for automobiles that will combine with the trainset.

Thanks for letting me share this observation.

Bill

________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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Group: S-Trains Message: 20872 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Re: sorry. a Flyer question
In a message dated 8/30/02 6:56:45 AM, STOUDTKR@... writes:

<< Hey guys, A question about American Flyer! I have a tender chassis with
link $ pin trucks that have 3 springs shown on the side frames. They are
also 1/4" longer then the 2 spring L & P truck. I also found another pair
of these longer trucks. Can any of you AF history buffs tells us about
these trucks? Thanks, Ken >>

Circa 1950-53, Gilbert made link coupler trucks for rolling stock with three
springs stamped on each side. These are classified as 'Type 4' trucks in
Greenberg's Vol. 1. Presumably, these were first intended for applications of
heavier duty on a real piece of railroad equipment. They most frequently show
up on sheet metal tenders for single piece die cast Atlantics and early
plastic Atlantics (e.g., 300AC and 302AC) and on the early track cleaning
cars (648) based on the die cast depressed center flat car chassis. This type
of truck was produced in sufficiently large numbers that they were eventually
had to be used up on regular rolling stock. They are often found on stock
cars (MP 629s), gondolas (T+P 631s) and other pieces of rolling stock (e.g.,
613s and 620s) from the late link coupler period of1952-53.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20873 From: Joe Visintine Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Starter sets, my $.02
Would anyone like to come to Stockton California Oct 24 to 26th and do a
clinic on Starter sets ?

Joe Visintine

BASS Member # ???
Group: S-Trains Message: 20874 From: bilfrazier@aol.com Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Re: Ertl set
In a message dated 8/30/02 6:44:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 19:56:36 -0400
> From: Michael Greene <pinetreerr@...>
> Subject: Re: sorry..another thought
>
> This is a good idea. It prompted me to go upstairs and open up the box on
> an ERTL Farm Country Freight Train Set and have a look...
>
> Seems like if this set:
> - had a loco powered by a transformer instead of batteries
> - perhaps better wheelsets on the cars (but may not be necessary)
> - better track & turnout
> - new power unit & trucks for the loco
> it would have good play value.
>
> I have not yet put mine together, but it looks to be a snap(pun intended).
> And quite a lot for the price -- the store I bought them in had them marked
>
> $49.99 and reduced to $19.99 to close them out. Of course to add the above
> would move the price up a bit. The tooling looks pretty nice. Has anyone
> actually upgraded one of these sets?
>
> Michael
>
>

Hi Michael:

I guess you haven't seen my Ertl loco. I added AM handrails and other detail
parts, a dynamic brake unit and SHS wheelsets. A custom paint job and Lehigh
Valley lettering make it look very nice. It still runs on batteries, so when
I have run it on the Bristol Club layout it doesn't work too well with our
DCC system!

Bill Frazier


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20875 From: Chuck Smith Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Scale Or Hi-Rail?
This ought to get a real debate going!
Seriously, though, you can only answer this for yourself. If you're able
to live with the larger wheel flanges, hirail with code 125 rail is more
forgiving of imperfections in trackwork. If you must have code 100 or
smaller rail then no question- go scale. If starting over all my track
would be code 125 instead of 148 and al my hirail rolling stock would
have kadees. A little too expensive now to start converting a hundred
or so cars.
I believe real hirail precludes the use of Flyer rolling stock. Modern
hirail is closer to scale than it is to Flyer, especially if you don't
use the big couplers. If you must mix AF and hirail create a couple of
cars with a Flyer and Kadee coupler on different ends. Keep your radii
large enough and the body mount KD couplers won't be a problem. This
means no tight S turns. An alternative is to just retain some Flyer and
run it in dedicated trains, separate from the hirail.
I am expanding this distribution to S-Trains so the thread will get more
varied opinions.

LeRoy Price wrote:
>
> If someone was just starting with S, what would be the better choice Scale or Hi-Rail?
>
> LeRoy
>
> To see or post Photos visit
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
> or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
> To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 20876 From: David Dewey Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: sorry. a Flyer question--A WHAT???!!! Here??
Amazing, a real question about ACG AF---And RB gave a great answer (saving
me looking it up, thanks!). So I guess S-trains still "works"!
Once in a while we even get AF questions on Flyer Chat, when we're not
discussing Rick's BBQ, etc. etc. . . .;-) (if you haven't been, Sunday
night's the time, 5PM EDT.)
I'm just sitting home on a Friday night, Linda's working, and I'm reading my
emails (before going to work on an AF engine), and realizing that this is a
great bunch of people here, even when we disagree about stuff. I'd be boring
if we didn't!! From this group I've personally met friends from Idaho,
Missouri, and even California, and have friends in Norway, England,
Australia, and ??? This is great. Have a great weekend y'all!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20877 From: David Dewey Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Scale Or Hi-Rail?
This question is very dependent on the individual, and the individual's
talents (or financial resources to have someone else do the work!). With
today's RTR equipment, one needen't be a scratchbuilder to have a fine
trainset or more, but the rest of the scale stuff does require some talent
to build and detail.
Hi-rail can be a confusing place, Chuck likes Kadee's on hirail equipment,
but I think that's a "scale thing." (BTW, neither of us are right or wrong
on this!) I have seen hirail layouts that rival scale layouts in scenery and
setting.
For the "casual" railroader who just wants to put down some track on a
cardtable, I think I would recommend hirail, but I know some would say, "NO
WAY, go scale so you start out 'right'."
Best thing, if he/she is not in a hurry, is to go to some different layouts
and 'take a test drive" and see what seems to fit.
Now for me, I have way too much AF, and too much experience fixing it to
change! Gads, Kadees for 200-300 cars alone!! Besides, I like driving
antique cars too, so guess I'm just kinda stuck--although I DO have an SHS
WP F3 that sure does purr, and I love that remote control button box, and
the cool sound effects. (My excuse is that ACG never made a "real" F unit,
and I had to have *something* to pull those CZ cars!)
Group: S-Trains Message: 20878 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Starter Philosophy
Jerry Dobbs said:
>My first set, 1946, Pacific #310, cost my father $19.95, That starter
>set was expensive. He was working for $2.00 per hr. (a good rate of pay
>in that day), he had to work over 3 days to buy that set. Today a starter
>set in the $200.00 dollar range I feel would be equivalent.

Good point, Gerry. But a man with a good job today makes around $200 a day.
3 days is $600 and that's not a starter set price.

Check your math. $20 is 10 hours work at $2 per. 10 hours work today would
come out to $250. So the equivalent of your Pacific set in todays market
would be around $249.95. SHSs basic starter set (and they do list them as
starter sets) begins at $299.99. It contains a diesel, three cars and a
caboose. If he dropped one car, Don could sell these for around $249, maybe
$259. That would make it roughly equivalent to your Flyer starter except;
it has better detail, a better running diesel, better wheelsets, better
track, and is DCC compatible.

The idea of spending $100 or less on a starter set today is the rough
equivalent of buying a trainset in 1946 for $8.00. Only Marx met that
standard, and only in their bottom line sets, the ones with the two axles
and the molded on truck details.

So I ask again. What is it that you guys want? A Marx playset? This will
win converts to S? Why? Because yuppie parents with a new minivan and a
Mercedes SUV like cheap toys for their kids?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20879 From: Rick Evans Date: 8/30/2002
Subject: Speaking of BBQ,..and chat...!!
David "The Fixin' Flyer Guy" Dewey said......
**((Once in a while we even get AF questions on Flyer Chat, when we're not
discussing Rick's BBQ, etc. etc. . . .;-) (if you haven't been, Sunday
night's the time, 5PM EDT.)))***

David you always crack me up,.....but just wanted to point out that chat is at
5pm Pacific time,... 8pm Eastern. I don't want the east coasters sittin' in a empty room
for a while!! Unless someone changed the time on me!!!
Hmmmm...big weekend,...what to BBQ????


Rick "Fire up the grill" Evans.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20880 From: Tim Brown Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: MY S GAUGE LAYOUT WEBSITE
Hi,

Very nice! When my scenery grows up, I want it to be just like yours. Meanwhile, if it's not too much trouble, you could send me all those Flyer locos that you don't use. I'll see that they stay nice and limber.

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: crosley19
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 9:32 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] MY S GAUGE LAYOUT WEBSITE


For those who have not seen my S gauge layout website, here is the
link to it:
http://hometown.aol.com/kingmidg1/AMERICANFLYERWEBPAGE.html

I have a semi highrail/scale layout with American Flyer, and
American Models Locomotives, all D.C.C. equiped. If anybody has
questions on D.C.C. I am always happy to help.
Barry


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Group: S-Trains Message: 20881 From: crosley19 Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: My S gauge layout website
For those who have not seen my S gauge layout website, here is the
link to it:
http://hometown.aol.com/kingmidg1/AMERICANFLYERWEBPAGE.html

I have a semi highrail/scale layout with American Flyer, and
American Models Locomotives, all D.C.C. equiped. If anybody has
questions on D.C.C. I am always happy to help.
Barry
Group: S-Trains Message: 20882 From: Peter Ervin Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1564
I hate to break up the tread on starter sets, but I'd like to comment on
the Toy Trains Unlimited Shop which was mentioned a week ago. The shop is
in Hanover, PA at 28 York Street. I went there yesterday. The first thing
that caught my eye was an English tea shop a few doors away. I'm a sucker
for English tea shops. You get your choice of teas and then these little
sandwiches and desserts, served in a formal but pleasant style.

After getting my fill of the goodies there, I visited Ron. He has lots of
L, but he also has plenty of S gauge, mostly American Flyer. What you see
there is the tip of his iceberg. He has lots more at home, including a
wide range of accessories. He told me about a talking station in pristine
condition which still has the protective cork on the end of the needle. I
bought a B&O box car, # 933, in very good condition for $48 and a search
light car, #934, in good condition for $35. I have no idea if these are
reasonable prices, I just liked them. Ron deducted a couple of bucks to
compensate me for PA sales tax and threw in a free manual uncoupler. He
has lots of parts too. In short, it's well worth a visit if you are in the
area. And if there is something you are looking for, call Ron at
717-637-4717. There is a very good chance he has it. Don't look for him
on the Internet. Ron shies away from that.

Peter Ervin

Original messages:

Hi,
I visited Ron in his new shop in Hanover this afternoon. He is selling off
his own personal huge Flyer collection through his new store. I would guess
if you want something, he probably has it. His Flyer stock and accessories
for sale are very nice, most of it in original boxes and wrappers. He's a
very friendly guy. If there is something you are looking for, all you need
to do is give him a call. He will be stocking a nice selection of Flyer
parts as well.
Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: mlmarmer
To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 7:55 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] New Train Shoppe

I received a card in the mail from a new train shoppe in Hanover, PA, called
Toy Trains Unlimited on 28 York St. 717-637-4717.
Does anyone in this group know anything about this shoppe. Has anyone been
there yet? He writes that he has one room devoted to AF.
Any feedback will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD
Group: S-Trains Message: 20883 From: trzp1800 Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: MY S GAUGE LAYOUT WEBSITE
That's a nice layout Barry. Can you post a layout plan sometime?
Loved the Lehigh structures, I'm thinking of trying some of these.
Regards,
Ted

--- In S-Trains@y..., "crosley19" <CROSLEY19@A...> wrote:
> For those who have not seen my S gauge layout website, here is the
> link to it:
> http://hometown.aol.com/kingmidg1/AMERICANFLYERWEBPAGE.html
>
> Barry
Group: S-Trains Message: 20884 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Scale Or Hi-Rail?
In a message dated 8/31/02 1:46:53 AM, djdewey@... writes:

<< I DO have an SHSWP F3 that sure does purr, and I love that remote control
button box, and the cool sound effects. (My excuse is that ACG never made a
"real" F unit,
and I had to have *something* to pull those CZ cars!) >>

You're not alone. <g> Have a SHS WP F-3 ABB for the same purpose.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20885 From: trzp1800 Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: SETS
--- In S-Trains@y..., anormal1@a... wrote:
> One way to really get kids interested in trains again is to have
a movie

Hi:
One more post on Starters....

My son & daughter and I were in a YMCA program called "Indian Guides"
from the time my daughter was 5 until my son turned 10, about nine
years. When the movie "Man of the House" came out, which if you've
not seen it promanently features the Y' program, we in the program
thought we'd get a TON of calls, after all, Chevy Chase and Fara
Faucett starred! It didn't happen. The program is GREAT BTW and any
of you guys out there looking for a way to be sure you spend time
with your boys or girls in the 5-10 yr range should call the Y'.

The program recognition did go up, people would ask you about the
program and you could say, " Have you seen the movie?" They'd go "Oh
yeah!" and that hooked them a little longer so you could tell them
what the program was really like as oppposed to the movie.

Point? Tie-ins are great but probably won't send S' to the moon. BUT,
it would increase recognition. Might be even better to have Jimmy Eat
World put some S-Gauge in their next music video! Or get Old Navy to
use trains in one of their ads. Or get Aber & Fitch to use them in
some sexy ad with 1/2 neked guys, better yet, get them to use them on
their Christmas shopping bags! Lots of mall exposure there.

What i've come away with from this thread is:

1. More people are buying trains as they get older. Sales in general
have been rising according to what i have read here. This means that
more kids will get to see adults running trains so more kids will
naturally want to run trains in the future. Kid still emulate the
adults they love. This is a good thing, right?
2. We need to have liturature handy at any occasion where we display
our trains. We don't currently have the luxury of sending the newbies
to K-mart for a starter set. But, how many families do you know who
do not have and use internet access? At a minimum, clubs or
individuals can have a typed up list of websites ready to hand out to
folks who show an interest. Websites are catalogs too. I know i drool
occasionally when i cruise through ebay or look at SHS's site. After
reading/catching up on this thread all morning I've convinced myself
that i'm going to do this for ACSG's upcoming appearance at the
Charlotte GATS show.
3. There's a lot of ways to skin a cat. Thanks to all of you who have
and are producing all the fine equipment that's currently available.
But don't ever expect Lionel to push Flyer. It's not in their best
interest to dilute the liquor. I do think what little they are making
is good quality, liked their version of Gabe. Wish they would bring
the technology of the 21st century to bear on some of the stuff. But
then, go back and reread the fourth sentance.
4. Computers have changed play and this has, i suspect, hurt sales of
many types of toys that used to be popular. I just poled my 15 year
old son and he couldn't think of a single kid he knows that builds
models, plastic, wood, etc. except for two guys that are into gaming,
Warhammer, they make their figurines. At least 1/2 the kids in the
neighborhood i grew up in did this at least a little bit. Now kids
mostly model on computers.
5. Grass roots efforts such as rehabbing old Atlantics are a good
idea. Go for it and see how it does.

Have enjoyed this thread, it's been more civil than many, in spite of
the obvious strongly differing opinions. Nuff talk, time to go play
with my trains!

Regards,
Ted
Group: S-Trains Message: 20886 From: David Dewey Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Philosophy
Hi all,
Chris hit on one of the factors not mentioned so far (I think, maybe I
was asleep part of the time); "Because yuppie parents with a new minivan and
a
Mercedes SUV like cheap toys for their kids." YES!! For the most part that
is. "Back when" we were lucky to get ONE toy for Christmas (I remember one
Christmas I got the Kenner Girder & Panel, Bridge & Turnpike set --with
electric motor! AND an Etch-a-Sketch, wow, I scored big time! (think I got
some clothes too, but that doesn't count) Of course the batteries weren't
included, and the stores were closed--and the main reason I remember this
time as my good friend also got the exact same stuff! Too Cool, btw, I used
to build buildings for my layouts w/this set, still makes good industrial
sites).
Anyway, back to the thread; today's kids get many toys, and expect to get
many. Very few toys today are sold as "The BIG Gift." So that is one change
that a starter set market has to deal with. It may be the Achilles' heel of
this whole idea. No statement, just a thought to ponder over. Gotta go to
Work--AND a JOB interview call-back! Posts at 11, or sometime!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20887 From: David Dewey Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: Speaking of BBQ,..and chat...!!OOPS
Hmm, Rick's right, never trust the Dyslexic to give you time esp. if it
involves time zones! Woke my Dad up at 4AM one day when I thought Hawaii was
behind 3 hours. ooops, now I have my "two time-zone" watch set to remind me!
I Hope to be there, if the smoke from Rick's BBQ doesn't chase me out! ;-)
He He he!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20888 From: David Dewey Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Scale Or Hi-Rail?
RB Wrote, You're not alone. <g> Have a SHS WP F-3 ABB for the same purpose.

RB"

I'm Jealous, 'cause THAT's protoypical! I gotta save up and find another B
unit. (But what I really want is WP 805A!--see my website if you want to
know why www.quiknet.com/~djdewey

S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20889 From: David Dewey Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: SETS
Hmm, All this talk about rehabbing "old Atlantics" makes me wonder; even
though they are the most prolific loco ACG made (for STARTER SETS, btw),
will this cause Atlantics to rise in value??
Hmmm. Gee, if so I got a great portfolio here!!! ;-)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20890 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Philosophy
Jeez David, you got it all backwards. Kids today get lots of gifts, often
several biggies. My comment was sarcasm. Why do we need a $100 starter set
when parents with larger disposable incomes can easily handle $260?

This isn't the first time in this thread that this has occurred. It's
amazing to me that no matter what argument I put out there, people of the
opposite mindset will adopt my words to make it seem I was proving their
point. I guess when you've made your mind up, there's no point in further
thinking.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20891 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Philosophy
For over 25 years I've heard this nonsense about starter sets. "We
need a starter set that costs this amount or that amount" Chris Z is
on the money (no pun intended) with regard to S Helper's starter
sets. What we as a community need to do, is point out to someone
interested in buying into S, that the quality and realism of S
starter sets is well worth the price. It is all about marketing. If
someone balks at the price, explain to them that they probably spent
over $500 on their kids Xbox or Nintendo, when you add in extra
controllers, games, etc. How many of them go out every month or two
and buy a new game for $50? Ask them if their kids will be playing
with it in 3 years. Tell them that the trains will last a lifetime
and not be outdated. Show them American Flyer still running 50 years
later! Put a positive spin on it and see how people respond. Trying
to rehash some old Marx stuff or Ertl just to get the price to a
perceived level is just not going to work. You get what you pay for.
Will S ever be mainstream? Probably not, but by being creative in
selling what is available we can get more people into S. You have to
make them want to buy it and make them think it was their idea. Jim
Duncan
Group: S-Trains Message: 20892 From: af21115 Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Show Date
Anyone know the next Gilbertsville, PA show date?? I'm moving and my
show fliers are packed away. Thanks!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20893 From: richard Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Dark chasm....lol
Chris ,,as per usual...lol..brings to fore ...probably the more vexxing
aspect of this "Starter" situation..

We have been addresing the what...but it is inextricably tied to the "for
whom"...one sorta begets the other....its at this juncture that we
realise..., ,,,though there might have been a man for all seasons...there
is NO train for all reasons!!.....there is no ONE car for all drivers..and
we go on....and on...and ...

We are are bunch with limited resources......we will NOT hit all the
marks...just not a likely outcome....so as I hinted to prior....who is this
"newbie"...or more to the point...which subgroups of newbie can we hope to
cater to..

Now the Mercedes driven, ,,,summer camp provided, Nike outfitted youth of
today...Easy Peasy...give them a SHS ...hey why not two!!! ( I too am
familair with the wit of the dark chasm!! )..

Now we have the mom 'n' pops...or maybe the gran-moms & gran-pops who
might like to subject junior to a revisitation of their youth through a
refurbed Flyer/MArx whatever set...more power..way to go guys...

or we have the trainshow enquiry type customer..." hey thats a really neat
set Mister.....how can I get started?? "..or its from the MUm ..or Dad ..or
guardian ( its an enlightened age !! )...to these..I dare say we need to
provide the prior discusssed trains set...affordable...accessorised.....
but most importantly....AVAILABLE !!! and right then... right now!!..get
that cash off them before they cool !!!! lol..get their number so a "mentor"
from a local club can take them under their wing...and guide them to the
promised land that is"Trainta"S"ia" ( only slightly tongue in cheek
here..)..

Sure some folk are able to divest of 'serious' disposable money....any
unattached females in this category.....lol ( sorry).... but this is
probably not the major demographic we are giving attention to...but the
more run of mill " average" ( please statisticians...be kind) folk...who
want something reasonable..and reasonably cheap..to give that lil guy or
girl...so as to not extinguish that flutter of enthusiasm,,,whilst its
there.

Bachmann, Lionel et al...all know that marker...its around $150....how bout
we piggy back that well researched thinking..and go there....if we by chance
arrive at a number of solutions...from $75 up through $150....more the
better...but like any consumerable...there is a point...a magic dollar
value...which once attained...breeds sales.

Also..its no argument that probably whatever is sold in these sets is no
match for "any category" if placed side by side with a better product down
on the club layout.....but I thought the whole idea was to get
them...somehow in the first place....we dont all start out with mercs...or
mustangs...its invariably a clapped out toyota thats been done up by
dad..and even better with input from pending terror on road,,,son or
daughter.....or its a cheap and chearful Hyundai or such...let them take
owneship of the dream of having something different..better....more
suitable....... Trainwise...lets get them on our side...loving trains..and
"playing" with them...they'll work out the rest.

No one seriously thinks that bat, ball and glove set ( special at $29.99 )
is really the real mccoy!!...but its as good as any to foster the dream of
climbing the wall, bottom of the ninth, to take out the pennant .

What we are selling is a SEED....not a tree.

We need Seeds...about 1:64 in size I reckon :-)

cheers
>:~))
Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 20894 From: robert allen conner Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: STARTER SETS
Somewhere in the back of my mind I remember a statement about the low cost
starter sets AF put out...."It was like they were packing a $5.00 bill in
each set!"..They were selling these starter sets so low they lost money on
them...But they hoped to pick it up on later sales after the kids got
hooked...Or was it DAD!! and during the 50's it worked...they came back and
bought the extras.....I think I will give my Grandson a nice Flyer set for
Christmas....
btw..I need a 90, 91,99, and caboose to finish my Christmas set....anyone
got one? Bob Conner
Group: S-Trains Message: 20895 From: Rick Evans Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: "S" is for seeds....
Richard from down under wrote...

**((What we are selling is a SEED....not a tree.
We need Seeds...about 1:64 in size I reckon :-)--))**

And while planting those seeds, it would be nice if they were "S" seeds!
It appears, or at least how I understand it, from the posts on "starter" sets,..
...there are two choices---
#1---Buy the SHS, AM, higher dollar detailed stuff and hope the kids (or adults) stick with them...
or you are stuck with high dollar stuff no one plays with...(send them my way!)
#2---Buy an in-exspensive starter set of another gauge,..so when it gets cast
aside, no big deal....and hope in time they find how great
"S" gauge is and make the switch ifn' they like to play with trains!!

OK,..maybe a 3rd,...hit the shows and ebay,..and buy some cheap Flyer!!

Getting kids/adults into any trains is great,....for us "S"ers,...getting them
into "S" would be even better!!

Rick.











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20896 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Scale Or Hi-Rail?
In a message dated 8/31/02 12:46:57 PM, djdewey@... writes:

<< RB Wrote, You're not alone. <g> Have a SHS WP F-3 ABB for the same purpose.


RB"


I'm Jealous, 'cause THAT's protoypical! I gotta save up and find another B

unit. (But what I really want is WP 805A!--see my website if you want to

know why www.quiknet.com/~djdewey


S'

David D. >>

I preordered the WP F-3 setup in ABB form (Feb., 1999) about 1 and 1/2 years
before they first issued. I believe that I was among the first to bug Don T.
for an extra unit saying " I need an extra B and you know very well why!" <g>
It was these early bird requests that prompted Don to have some extra units
made. Now that the proper silver truck side frames and fuel tanks have been
fitted the engines, the whole shooting match makes one swell train. The 7
Flyonel cars are not ideal but are the best that we have at this time to put
together the California Zephyr -- sure wish that the observation car had a
dome!

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20897 From: trzp1800 Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Scale Or Hi-Rail?
-- sure wish that the observation car had a
> dome!
>
> RB

Why not add one?
tz
Group: S-Trains Message: 20898 From: TED R LARSON Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: RC
Whilst on OTHER errands today, I went to a different Target and a
different K-Mart than I usually go to, and found some RC cars; '56 Nomad
in very attractive green and white (same colors as the '57 Chev Wagon my
Dad bought new "back then"), '63 Ford Galaxie (NICE), '67 Plymouth, '65
Chevelle. In race car paint I found a '58(?) Plymouth and a '63(?)
Corvette. I actually bought a JL car, their '32 Ford coupe hot rod
appears to be proper size for S scale.

There were also some later '60's muscle cars, and several late model
pickups. At KayBee, I found the mid-70's JL Dodge pickup that is very
close to exact S scale.

Ted Larson
Picture Perfect Paper
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/researchDevelopment/

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Group: S-Trains Message: 20899 From: Tim Brown Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: Show Date
I have it marked on my calendar as 9/15/02 and I'm looking forward to going.

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: af21115
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 8:30 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Show Date


Anyone know the next Gilbertsville, PA show date?? I'm moving and my
show fliers are packed away. Thanks!


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Group: S-Trains Message: 20900 From: richard Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: on the money ???
Its been argued...an i dont deny the validity of it...that there is un
abashed value in the SHS sets !!..this is not an issue......but it also
misses the point

We in S are almost unique...in we have a starter set...of fantastic
quality..the others dont!!..you cant really stack up a MTS set against
SHS..Ron wins hands down..you cant rack up any points comparing a LLC set
either.. HO sets by AHM..model power..etc etc...arent based on the quality
bang for buck premise!! They are about..bums on seats..lights and things
that move..

the closest analogy of quality and value would be Bachmann On30 sets....but
hopefully as this is narrow guage...its not in the comparison ..( because
they are bloody good!! )...

You cant get people into cars by saying...well look...yeah ther is that
saturn over there...but hey...look at teh build of this Beemer...think of
its resale...think of the prestige....all the person wanted was a cheap
reliable car.... and over here...we're talking a beginners
trainset.....they just want the tactile experieince of putting it on
tracks...hearing it click ( yes...all those things that cast their spell on
us years ago).

The point many seem to miss...because we are already into S..is we are
talking about people only vaguely at the point of being into trains at
all.....the are start ups!!...they are at the line wanting to get into
trains perhaps...looking around as to whats the go.....and they
see...HO...they See N...O.. etc..and they see S...now many will like it..(
as they should...being the chosen scale..lol )...but get their wallets out
they will..and hey mister..can I have one of those.....umm well
sonny...NO...not for that note...note for 10 of them actually...thanks
mister...Ive found something over here...( HO )...sure some may buy into a
bit of nostalgia..and fork for a refurb...( hop e they do)..many want a new
box...its THEIRS........just like the kids at the sports store..they want
THEIR bat...their GLOVE ( unless it happens to be famous!!)...
I have said...we DONT NEED a starter set to continue as a viable niche in
this hobby......but from little seeds to mighty oaks grow....with a few more
into S ..and these young newbies become lifers...they will
sped..upgrade...churn products and equipment ( just like they do in other
scales)..there is turnover...which begets more product..better choice...and
more followers...and none of this is Rocket Science...all this is already
indelibly stamped in history.

No we dont need starter sets really ...I mean....would there be any Flyer
followers today..WITOUT THEM ?????? If Flyer hadnt made a starter
set...this S-Trains list wouldnt exist...we wouldnt be discussing this at
all...its a bit like the chicken arguing we dont need eggs!!!...after all
you can buy very high quality chooks..who needs eggs!!...

Go buy a SHS set....fine ..if they have the moula...other wise its a littel
like telling the masses to go eat cake!! Surely we have learnt from
history...the guilotine is over on the left...shoud we as S go stand in
line...because if not our heads....we will surely be cutting off our noses
to spite our face..by letting all the Johnnies and Sarahs go buy into
another scale.....

If brand loyaly was such a misnomer....the big bad world wouldnt spend the
billions ensnaring us all into this or that....getting us into the
family...creating a mystique..that is Mercury..or Coke ....or
Playstation....

In the very wise words of Forrest Gump..we need to just do it!!

$500 for this box or that..is perceived value...its new technology..its
accepted there is some sort of premium to pay....but hey Mac..you wanna me
to pay ay a $500 for a lousy train set....sheesh!!!

Then again....lets keep S our little secret!!! would nt want all those
newbies pestering us.

On the money.....not with my bookie!!

>:~))
Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 20901 From: David Dewey Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: "S" is for seeds....
Gee, glad I read Rick's post, was afraid maybe it was about S folks being
seedy characters!!
(I couldn't resist, besides this thread needs a little humor thrown in!!)
(Right Rick, it was LITTLE humor--beach ya to it! (pun intended)
S'
David D.
PS, I'm in a great mood, I just landed a part time JOB!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20902 From: David Dewey Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: RC
Ted, Dang! your Target is a LOT more interesting than ours. I was in the
great metropolis of Chico today, and visited their Target, found a few
pieces, but all in the "collector's" packaging at $5 and up each. I did hit
the Big Now and bought two troop carriers from the Disney Atlantis stuff,
they look pretty much like '20s troop carriers, and at a buck each, worth
trying!
S'
David D.
PS Two was all they had in stock!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20903 From: David Dewey Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Philosophy
Chris, et al,
Sorry I missed the sarcasm, had to pick up vocal inflections on this
screen!
Well, maybe in some circles the kids get lots of expensive toys, but not
in the circles I know! There are very different levels of "existence" in
this country!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20904 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Philosophy
Duck said:
>Well, maybe in some circles the kids get lots of expensive toys, but not
>in the circles I know!

Well, I might point out that, like Unca Scrooge, you have been known (and
admitted to) a pretty wide cheap streak, so I would expect your numbers to
not coincide exactly with the rest of the nation!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20905 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Philosophy
Duck said:
>Sorry I missed the sarcasm, had to pick up vocal inflections on this
screen!

Really? I'd say you were from Boston just from the previous sentence.


Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20906 From: David Dewey Date: 8/31/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Philosophy
Hmm, you say "potato" I say "potatoe"
See, fooled ya, I'm from the Great State of Jefferson!
Maybe my membership in the CHEAP! club does influence the type of people I
"hang" with, but I can't imagine the great masses all drive SUVs and shower
their kids w/tons of expensive stuff for the Holidays.
However, until someone is willing to risk the large sums of cubic money it
will take to saturate the market with inexpensive starter sets, I suspect
we're only debating a theoretical item. (Not to say we shouldn't debate it)
S
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20907 From: yazfacts Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: J.C.Penny's Set......
Dear Group,
I just recieved my 2002 J.C.Penny's Christmas catalog. On
page 493 there is the "J.C.Penny Special Limited Edition Pennsylvania
Flyer O27 Set " It states that it is limited to 1000 sets ( smart
marketing ) . 16 - pc track, metal wheels and axles with magnetic
couplers. Set also includes a 40 watt power pack . Track layout is
63" x 27". Die cast metal engine with working headlights, puffing
smoke , whistle sound.Features red caboose, boxcar with opening
door.A Army flatcar with a diecast metal helicopter load. All of this
for $209.99.I bet it will seel out. Just my three cents.....Bob S.

ps- any idea who makes this,no brand name was given.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20908 From: IronHorse Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: Starter sets
I hope someone does come out with starter sets. Something
like the Casey Jones loco with a freight train is a good
option. I think a little better detailed boiler would be
good. And no Glossy freight cars. Realistic track that will
take larger locos later on.

The biggest obstacle to hurdle, is getting a big chain
store interested.



American Flyer trains were toys with quality men could
appreciate. But I am afraid this train
is at the end of the line. At least the AC Gilbert quality
is no more :o(

But at least there are real good offerings by others.
High quality to be enjoyed by all of us.
I wish the best of luck to any one making starter sets.
Keeping in mind what would interest
today's kids. Oh, I know, push computer operated
trains on them. Super fast modern
trains operated by remote control. A lightning fast track
switching system. Dad is doing
work in the freight yard switching freight. Swish ----->
His sons super fast passenger train
zips through the yard with the draft lifting all lose items
on the table in a swirl of disarray.
Swish ---- it goes through a town drawing clothes off a
clothes line.
Swossh ---- It goes past a farm raising up all the loose hay
in a cloud of dust.
Crash ----- Opps. End of line ----- On the floor. Tis
nice to dream.

Roger

"S"wing and ""S"way the "S" gauge way :o)
Group: S-Trains Message: 20909 From: richard Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: iron-ically
ironhorse suggests an obstacle being the stores....well...actually...from
investigations of two years back...and Ill brave an assumption that the
capitalist-retail world hasnt changed too much since then...NO...no real
obstacle at all....you just need to observe their rules...as Don ( sorry
mate It was you with the SHS sets winning hands down!! lol ) suggests...you
pretty well finance their profits ...and all is easy..simple really...if
observing this isnt a stickler...then there shouldnt be any impediment to
seeing S starter sets on shelves...well short of there being none!!! lol

The stores dont give a rat's....its just another toy ...spinning a dollar
for them..what do they care!!
We need to think like them as far as salability goes...not like hobbyists!!
To them its BU$INE$$ .

Target all but wanted to see the sample...WAlmart had the list of regional
head buyers( appropriate div )..if only I had a product...lol...we see this
emotionally...its our little baby....to them..its we need them shipped
into X, Y and Z by the 1st of Oct...etc

No,....its not getting the stores interested that's the problem...its not
having something for them to sell!!

Given some of the crap that makes its way to shelves...you really think we
wont sell trains!!
..

all boarding platform 9 3/4 ...

cheers
>:~))
Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 20910 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Philosophy
Duck sez:
>I can't imagine the great masses all drive SUVs and shower
>their kids w/tons of expensive stuff for the Holidays.

I'm from Long Island, New York, where the SUV is King of the Road. (There's
an oxymoron in there, somewhere.) This is the land where children are
regularly worshipped and glorified. Sacrifices are made and gifts are piled
upon the altar. After all, children are the people who will eventually pick
out your nursing home.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20911 From: michael prell Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Philosophy
It kinda makes ya wonder about what the heck all of
this is really all about, don't it? Oh well, Tracks
ahead, my man. Tracks ahead. But who or what is
pullind the cars?
--- Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...> wrote:
> Duck sez:
> >I can't imagine the great masses all drive SUVs and
> shower
> >their kids w/tons of expensive stuff for the
> Holidays.
>
> I'm from Long Island, New York, where the SUV is
> King of the Road. (There's
> an oxymoron in there, somewhere.) This is the land
> where children are
> regularly worshipped and glorified. Sacrifices are
> made and gifts are piled
> upon the altar. After all, children are the people
> who will eventually pick
> out your nursing home.
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and
> accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


=====
Being angry is the same as holding a hot coal in the palm of your hand. You want to hold on to it in order to throw it at another, but only hurt yourself in doing so.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20912 From: David Dewey Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: Re: Starter Philosophy
Well Chris, I wasn't going to bring it up, but since you mentioned it: "I'm
from Long Island, New York, where the SUV is King of the Road." Well, the
SUV is making major inroads, but L.I. isn't the nation's "norm." -- Nor is
Butte County, CA! But there are definitely different markets within this
country. I can see them simply driving from Sacramento to Oroville, a drive
of about 1-1/4 hours. What the stores carry in downtown Sac, and what the
people are wearing is different from what they are 25 miles away in North
Roseville (which is also different from what they are in South West
Roseville even!). Then you get to Marysville/Yuba City and the clientele
looks different, as well as the store merchandise AND layout. Unfortunately,
all that's really left in Oroville is the Wal-Mart (first one in CA, BTW),
Wards, KMart, etc. have all left here. But what's in the one here is
slightly different from what's in the one in Chico, 20 miles away--and the
people shopping there look way different too.
Anyway, that long paragraph is just to try to get everyone to realize that
their particular environment may not be what the majority of buyers live in.
What sells in A, may not sell well in B, and not even make the shelves in C.
I'm always noting great buys back East in vintage 1/64th die cast cars
posted here, but those same store chains out here don't even carry them!
Gotta Run, BTW, speaking of marketing, I haven't heard back from the Chevron
dealer about his left-over trucks. Hmm.
S'
David D. Out west!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20913 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: Re: J.C.Penny's Set......
In a message dated 9/1/02 7:26:22 AM, yazfacts@... writes:

<< All of this
for $209.99.I bet it will seel out. Just my three cents.....Bob S.

ps- any idea who makes this, no brand name was given. >>

Lionel, L.L.C. (or rather their Chinese manufacturing partners).

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20914 From: TED R LARSON Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: GN Motor Freight
This info looks like it might interest many S modelers.
Ted Larson
Picture Perfect Paper
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/researchDevelopment/


From: "Ben Ringnalda" <bringnal@
Subject: New 'website': Great Northern Motor Freight Division

Hi all,

As part of the Great Northern Empire website I have created a section on
the Great Northern Motor Freight Division. Here is a copy of the
introduction to the GNMFD website:

'The Great Northern Railway wasn't all trains. Sometimes it was more
economical and more efficient to move Less-than-Car-Load (LCL) shipments
by truck than by way freight service.

One such example was the Great Northern Stages Freightliner / Motor
Freight Division operation in Montana. Little known to many GN employees
this small trucking operation provided pick-up and delivery services,
trailer on flatcar shipments as well as bus service in a large part of
Montana and western North Dakota.
Stan Warner was one of the drivers who spent a lifetime with the Great
Northern Motor Freight Division. Stan approached me recently with the
question if I would be willing to devote part of my 'Great Northern
Empire' website to the history of GN's Motor Freight Division. He had
noticed that there wasn't much knowledge around on this GN trucking
operation, and was therefore very interested in getting the historical
aspect of this grand trucking operation to as many interested parties as
possible, especially as there are very few of the GNMFD employees still
living. Stan shared his knowledge of the Motor Freight Division and
opened his files to provide the information and pictures contained in
this website.

With it being a part of Great Northern history, I am happy to devote a
part of my website to the Great Northern Motor Freight Division, and this
is the result. I hope this website will help in making the Great Northern
Motor Freight Division better known, as it was also one of the things
that made the Great Northern - GREAT!'

To go to the GNMFD website go to www.greatnorthernempire.net and click on
the link in 'This Month's Feature' or in the 'Motor Vehicles' section or
go straight there by going to
www.greatnorthernempire.net/GNEMFDMainpage.htm

This new section of my website also contains a new type of menu used in
the index. This index should work for browsers IE4+ and NS4+. For older
browsers, if still used, there is a conventional index included. The new
index has the choices popping out to the right when rolling with the
mouse pointer (arrow) over the menu item, pretty much like the menu's
work in windows. I really like this new menu and am working on
implementing it for the main website also. There should be no problems
using this new menu, but if you do experience any problems please let me
know.

Enjoy reading up on the GNMFD!

Ben Ringnalda
Group: S-Trains Message: 20915 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, September 1, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page
http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 20916 From: robbyking13 Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: Ebay Auction For 4-8-4
My ebay auction for 4-8-4 UNION PACIFIC #336 is ending late tonight
at about 1:30 AM EST. This is a little later than I thought because
there was a problem when I got disconnected from ebay, so the listing
got delayed. Also, I updated the description: The armature of this
large motor turns, so there is no reason that this loco can not be
made to run. The locomotive is clean and rust free. As to the value
of this loco, I got it on ebay for $450.00, but it could be worth
more than that.

The current bid is at $330.00.

Robby King
Group: S-Trains Message: 20917 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: Re: Show Date
Well, guys, let's not forget "Ralph's" Hamburg show on Sept 8 at the Hamburg
Fire Co field house. Hamburg Shows are always good shows. PA Rt 61 between
Reading and Allentown. Turn South on Fourth street from Rt 22/78 or from Rt
61 North. Fire station on Pine Street, enter parking lot to your right at
the top of the hill. Ralph's # is 610-987-3144 or 610-374-7632. Good eats,
too ( PA Dutch talk).

RCT&HS show is Oct 8 at the Leesport Farmers Market near Rt 61, between
Reading and Hamburg. Current storage yard (12" to the foot) and museum is on
Wall Street, several blocks south of the train show. Choochuck@... is
the contact if you want a table there.
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20918 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: chat
<PRE>It says I'm in the room but there is no chat window help
Group: S-Trains Message: 20919 From: Tim Brown Date: 9/1/2002
Subject: Re: Show Date
The Hamburg Show is on the 8th and Gilbertsville on the 15th. I just wanted to clarify in case I got a date wrong in an earlier post.

Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: WJJIM@...
To: Timboy@... ; S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Choochuck@...
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Show Date


Well, guys, let's not forget "Ralph's" Hamburg show on Sept 8 at the Hamburg Fire Co field house. Hamburg Shows are always good shows. PA Rt 61 between Reading and Allentown. Turn South on Fourth street from Rt 22/78 or from Rt 61 North. Fire station on Pine Street, enter parking lot to your right at the top of the hill. Ralph's # is 610-987-3144 or 610-374-7632. Good eats, too ( PA Dutch talk).

RCT&HS show is Oct 8 at the Leesport Farmers Market near Rt 61, between Reading and Hamburg. Current storage yard (12" to the foot) and museum is on Wall Street, several blocks south of the train show. Choochuck@... is the contact if you want a table there.
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20920 From: Don Thompson Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Scale Or Hi-Rail?
I ordered extra WP "B" units as I knew these would be needed. We still have a
few left.
Don
PS $199.95 for a powered slave or powered DC only or $299 with either AC/DC or DCC
sound units installed.


rbubeck327@... wrote:

> In a message dated 8/31/02 12:46:57 PM, djdewey@... writes:
>
> << RB Wrote, You're not alone. <g> Have a SHS WP F-3 ABB for the same purpose.
>
> RB"
>
> I'm Jealous, 'cause THAT's protoypical! I gotta save up and find another B
>
> unit. (But what I really want is WP 805A!--see my website if you want to
>
> know why www.quiknet.com/~djdewey
>
> S'
>
> David D. >>
>
> I preordered the WP F-3 setup in ABB form (Feb., 1999) about 1 and 1/2 years
> before they first issued. I believe that I was among the first to bug Don T.
> for an extra unit saying " I need an extra B and you know very well why!" <g>
> It was these early bird requests that prompted Don to have some extra units
> made. Now that the proper silver truck side frames and fuel tanks have been
> fitted the engines, the whole shooting match makes one swell train. The 7
> Flyonel cars are not ideal but are the best that we have at this time to put
> together the California Zephyr -- sure wish that the observation car had a
> dome!
>
> RB
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20921 From: Don Thompson Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: Re: Starter sets, my $.02
Dear Joe,
Is airfare and lodging included? I consider myself and expert.
Don T.

Joe Visintine wrote:

> Would anyone like to come to Stockton California Oct 24 to 26th and do a
> clinic on Starter sets ?
>
> Joe Visintine
>
> BASS Member # ???
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20922 From: Don Thompson Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: Re: Still Timing
Dear Chris,
How many did they sell per hour the last week in July?
Don

Chris Zizzo wrote:
That's a lot of layout display to sell 12 trainsets. In 1952, Macy's layout
sold that many sets in an hour or less, every hour, every day, throughout
the holiday season. And Don's trains are nicer! It's all about timing in
the marketplace.




-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20923 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: Re: Starter sets, my $.02
Don wrote-- *** Is airfare and lodging included? I consider myself and expert****.

Joe Visintine wrote: ****Would anyone like to come to Stockton California Oct 24 to 26th and do a
clinic on Starter sets ?*****
Well,....Maybe no airfare and lodging,....but David Dewey and I will keep the
free jokes and gags coming a mile a minute for ya Don!!!! Uh-oh....
he REALLY won't show now!!! :^(

Rick.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20924 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: Lemax Haunted House.......
Hey Keith and all,...
Picked up my new Lemax Haunted House from the,..Oooooooo..."Spooky Town" collection,
.. for the little Fall layout today, from Michaels. Has a rotating device inside that flashes ghost figures through
the windows and the roof skylight! $29.99,...20% off today. Power adaptor included. This will be the center,..or
off center piece for the little layout.
I don't remember the Spooky Town stuff last year, but I was told they were out last year.


Rick.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20925 From: Don Thompson Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: Re: Starter sets, my $.02
Like Chris Zizzo knows...timing, timing, timing is everything. Robin and I LOVE California and I
have two free airline tickets to anywhere. So, the S fest is the week before York (Thanks a bunch
Will) and your show is the week after. Two shows is too many in two weeks and three shows would be
insane. What is the matter with November?
Don

Rick Evans wrote:

> Don wrote-- *** Is airfare and lodging included? I consider myself and expert****.
>
> Joe Visintine wrote: ****Would anyone like to come to Stockton California Oct 24 to 26th and do a
> clinic on Starter sets ?*****
> Well,....Maybe no airfare and lodging,....but David Dewey and I will keep the
> free jokes and gags coming a mile a minute for ya Don!!!! Uh-oh....
> he REALLY won't show now!!! :^(
>
> Rick.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20926 From: David Dewey Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: Re: Starter sets, my $.02
Don wrote-- *** Is airfare and lodging included? I consider myself and
expert****.

Joe Visintine wrote: ****Would anyone like to come to Stockton California
Oct 24 to 26th and do a
clinic on Starter sets ?*****
Rick wrote--- "Well,....Maybe no airfare and lodging,....but David Dewey
and I will keep the
free jokes and gags coming a mile a minute for ya Don!!!! Uh-oh....
he REALLY won't show now!!! :^( "

David adds, "Hmm, well IF you do come, be sure and pack a LOUD Hawaiian
shirt to wear here so you'll fit in!!"
;-)
Group: S-Trains Message: 20927 From: David Dewey Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: Re: Starter sets, my $.02
Two shows is too many in two weeks and three shows would be
insane. What is the matter with November?
Don


Hey, what can I say, we're wild and craaaazy guys!! Come anyway, no one will
notice your going insane!!

November out here has shows already booked for about every weekend.
S'
David
Group: S-Trains Message: 20928 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: Timing
What is the matter with November?

Don, I think the timing is bad for nov. Holidays are fast approaching!LOL! CB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20929 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: 3n shows in 3 weeks
So, the S fest is the week
before York (Thanks a bunch
Will) and your show is the week after. Two shows is too many in two
weeks and three shows would be
insane. What is the matter with November?


Sounds like Don needs a West Coast Rep. Streight commission of course.



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20930 From: crosley19 Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: Re: starter sets
I grew up with American Flyer S gauge trains, and 12 years ago I
went into one of our largest hobby stores to buy an American Flyer
set to put around our Christmas tree for my daughter. I found the
cheapest set was $600, no steam locomotives, no track, and no
transformer! I was then told you cannot buy s gauge track anymore by
the store manager. So I then bought an LGB starter set for $275. I
kept adding to it, and adding to it, but it never tricked my trigger.
$6000.00 later, I tore up all the track, houses, and accesories, and
traded it for old Lionel trains, cars and accesories. Noting I only
got 50 cents on the dollar for my LGB, and paid top dollar on the
lionel stuff. 4 years later, after many more purchases, I sold off
all my Lionel at public auction. I wanted American Flyer. I now have
learned alot more about trains, and have a large S gauge layout (that
I am happy with).
If there would have been an S gauge steam loco starter set at that
store for about $275-$325 I would have saved alot of money over the
years, and had alot more time enjoying S gauge.
Barry
Group: S-Trains Message: 20931 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: starter set story
Greetings all,

A story of starter sets and Christmas shopping.

I was relating the traffic on this list about starter sets to my mother,
the person who bought me my American Flyer starter set back around 1965 (or
was it Santa?).

She mentioned that if not for the grace of lay-away she could not have been
able to afford the $20.00 or so for the set.

And I am talking about a AF set with a 21166 CJ, a post boxcar, a Boston &
maine gondola and the traditional caboose. So it wasn't anything too fancy.

Oh, I still have the set.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20932 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: Starter sets
She mentioned that if not for the grace of lay-away she could not have
been
able to afford the $20.00 or so for the set.

There's the rub. How many places that do sell the SHS starter set offer lay-away?

I see long lines at the Wal-mart and K-Mart (Big K) lay-away every Christmas. So, it must still be a big part of Christmas shopping. Some people don't like to use "plastic" for such. Lay-away is more like cash in that it's paid for before you take it out of the store, not like a credit card bill that may still not be paid off by Easter.



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20933 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: Layaway at train stores....
I'm not sure about other train stores,...but the local one here in my neck
of the woods in CA......let me do a layaway on the new Bachmann On30
Christmas set. Now if they would only stock SHS,...although they did make contact with
SHS and will order for me!!


Rick.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20934 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 9/2/2002
Subject: F-3's
In a message dated 08/31/2002 11:28:55 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:


> In a message dated 8/31/02 1:46:53 AM, djdewey@... writes:
>
> << I DO have an SHSWP F3 that sure does purr, and I love that remote
> control
> button box, and the cool sound effects. (My excuse is that ACG never made a
>
> "real" F unit,
> and I had to have *something* to pull those CZ cars!) >>
>
> You're not alone. <g> Have a SHS WP F-3 ABB for the same purpose.
>
> RB
>

And I too have the F-3 ABB in UP used to pull the LTI UP Pass cars.

Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20935 From: Kimball, Bob (CH) Date: 9/3/2002
Subject: A new Generation
It isn't really about starter sets!
We got started as kids, with romance, interest by our parents and
other factors.
If you really want a starter set. Build your own! Become a Big
Brother to someone - invite them to your house and teach them the wonders of
building and running trains. If you spent the time and energy with some
young person teaching them about the hobby - instead of writing to all of us
that are already involved you would do a great deal more good.
Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 20936 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 9/3/2002
Subject: Re: sorry. a Flyer question
All you got to do is ask. Thanks guys.

Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: RBubeck327@... [mailto:RBubeck327@...]
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 11:05 PM
To: Stoudt,Kenneth R.; S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] sorry. a Flyer question



In a message dated 8/30/02 6:56:45 AM, STOUDTKR@... writes:

<< Hey guys, A question about American Flyer! I have a tender chassis with
link $ pin trucks that have 3 springs shown on the side frames. They are
also 1/4" longer then the 2 spring L & P truck. I also found another pair
of these longer trucks. Can any of you AF history buffs tells us about
these trucks? Thanks, Ken >>

Circa 1950-53, Gilbert made link coupler trucks for rolling stock with three

springs stamped on each side. These are classified as 'Type 4' trucks in
Greenberg's Vol. 1. Presumably, these were first intended for applications
of
heavier duty on a real piece of railroad equipment. They most frequently
show
up on sheet metal tenders for single piece die cast Atlantics and early
plastic Atlantics (e.g., 300AC and 302AC) and on the early track cleaning
cars (648) based on the die cast depressed center flat car chassis. This
type
of truck was produced in sufficiently large numbers that they were
eventually
had to be used up on regular rolling stock. They are often found on stock
cars (MP 629s), gondolas (T+P 631s) and other pieces of rolling stock (e.g.,

613s and 620s) from the late link coupler period of1952-53.

RB


+

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 20937 From: stargate7@cox.net Date: 9/3/2002
Subject: Help -- American Flyer pricing?
Hi everyone -

I have an old (1940's) American Flyer train set which I would like to find
a good home for. I am an avid model railroader, but I'm somewhat at a loss
as to how to price this train set for auction or sale. I have an idea -- I
thumbed through one of those $30.00 guides once, and I believe the
locomotive & tender alone was worth around $800+, but I'm not sure .... so
if that sounds ridiculous, just blame my errant memory. I don't have
immediate access to such a guide right now, and until then, I thought
perhaps I could pick your brains for an online site or something, to help
me determine pricing that would be fair to both myself and a prospective buyer.

I realize I will probably need to get way more specific, but just to give
you an idea, this is *basically* what I have:

Locomotive: 4-8-4 steamer, silver Union Pacific emblem on tender -- in
original box.
Train: 6 passenger cars, dark red (burgundy?) .... a couple of them faded
on one side, couplers need work on some of them. Do not have all boxes.
Assorted track including two switches with changing signal lights (red/green).
I also have a LARGE transformer/power pack somewhere, but it got separated
from the train set when I moved a couple years ago.

Any *wild* guesses as to what a fair asking price might be ? Thanks in
advance ...

Cheers,
- Dave G.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20938 From: Mark Preman Date: 9/3/2002
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
The new list is posted at http://www.americanflyertrains.com

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 20939 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 9/3/2002
Subject: Ertl' 'starter' set
To all:
I keep hearing many people say "We need a cheep starter set." and
often mentioning the Ertl set.

I purchased one with the intention of discovering if I had a cheep power
truck.

Ertl, in their infinite wisdom, chose to use flanges even deeper than
Flyonel's deepest and to make them a full 1/8 inch wide at the bottom edge.
Thus you have the normal 42 inch wheel. Then the flange flairs out. Then a
second step 1/8 inch wide is found!
The Ertl power truck will not go through AF switches (the super-wide
flanges don't clear the frog). The Ertl will not go through the crossing
nor the re-railer either. I thought briefly of carving them down and
stopped before I started.
The cars have same flange problems. So I thought "Can I use AF
wheelsets?" Nope. Ertl used a unique wheel where the axel end is recessed
into the wheel! They get a prototypical width truck but the wheelsets can
not be substituted for.

The track that came with it was a plastic version of PikeMaster. It is not
strong. Samantha (my daughter) broke one of the curves the first week. I
pulled out Gen-U-Whine American Flyer curves and straights and it runs
great. But I can't enlarge the layout by adding switches!
The Ertl switch (turnout) is an open frog design. It works well
with the Ertl but it does not work with AF. Again, flanges.

The set is in the junk heap, where it will remain.

Unless someone redesigned the trucks (and the switch), this set is a dead
end. No true S-Gauge will ever purchase more than one of these disasters.
(Note I am not maligning the battery nor the lack of control.)

---------------------------------------------------

Do we want a cheap starter set? Have someone cut a Genesis shell. ALL
details cast on except the horn. Window plastic is optional. Power only
one truck.
Make ONE passenger car shell. Again, all details cast on. Windows
optional. (A 50 - 60 foot shortie.)
Include 20 oversized people. (10 - 20 scale feet tall.)
Throw in an oval of track, power pack (DC), one loco, three
passenger cars, and the people. Print the station on the inside of the box
and let them cut it out and put it together themselves.
Yes, make the whole set AF compatible. But make it all from new
stock. Those with access to true AF will add switches on day one. As for
this fictious company, add switches in year two. (AF compatible means AF
size flanges, AF 'lobster claw' type couplers that I love so much (dummies /
Pike Master are fine), and the track mates with AF track without any
conversion. It would be nice if the trucks could accept ACE or SHS or AM
wheelsets as replacements.)
Throw in catalogs for AM and SHS and ???. Include propaganda from
NASG, and you have a starter set that I WILL BUY!

Thorin



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20940 From: notcoldenough Date: 9/3/2002
Subject: Steam tender electrical pickup shoe
On Ebay tonight, I noticed that the tender on the 1958 21115
Pennsylvania 4-6-2 Pacific has an diesel type electrical pickup shoe
located between the two brass wheels to improve electrical contact
with the track.

Does anybody know if this shoe is available on the replacement market
and if it can be easily added to earlier Pacifics or Hudsons which do
not have it?

The engine I saw can be found in Ebay by:

Item number - 1763146629

or

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1763146629

Thanks,

John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 20941 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 9/3/2002
Subject: Re: Show Date, Correction
Correction!!!
The RCT&HS show is October 6th at Leesport PA, Choochuck@... is still
the contact.
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20942 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 9/3/2002
Subject: Repair questions
Greetings to all!
Finishing the refurbishing of some 650/51s and a 718. What adhesive has
worked well to attach the plastic window material and which is most
prototypical, the clear or frosted? On the location of the lettering, I
need help with the dimensions for the New Haven 650/51. I found my notes
for the 718 but the 650/51 notes remain in that special place I knew I would
not forget .... ? Moving to the current issue of the S gaugian, page 28,
what is a pounce wheel (create rivets), how do they work, are they still
available and where could one be found???
A thought on "starter sets", our grandchildren will PLAY for an hour or two
with the action cars, moving "stuff" about in a gondola and building tunnels
or bridges from blocks. Having an action car in a set could be a "draw"
with the others being available for later purchase. Anyway, my thanks to
the "group" for any information you can provide on the above. Best wishes
to all! Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 20943 From: Richard Snook Date: 9/3/2002
Subject: genesis - revelations!!
MArty

The suggestion of the Ertl set as a starter set ...was more along the lines
of a starter set for a starter set....i.e. iT has some intersting
components...all the accessories..are foir kids...cool...it has Geep
shell..thats none too shabby actually...and the rolling stock..as kits..on
better AM/SHS trucks would be a fine element for oyung hands to
build....Track from established source..at OEM rates ?? ..which leaves a
drive required...for loco...sure make it simple stupid...plain
jane varietal maybe with battery powered controller..as a set it would be
cheap and cheerful....now a BAchman like set ...thats another
thing..another dream !!! lol

I like the suggestion of a GEnesis..with a number of same coaches...lests
not reinvent wheel here...grab a shortie AM car...whack some red white and
blue on the sides...call it AMTRAK...and presto.. Train sets are often
fanciful...less than prototypic.... we have those strangely enough
courtesy of established S manufactuerers...its the newbie-kiddie end we
lack a presence.

But a P2 like effort...mmmm.....that is relevant ...people know what is (
even if not the manufacturere or model designation )...has a non newbie
market...to be honest I am surprised that LOCO doesnt exist already...all
those pretty paint schemes...must be a natural.....lends itself to a one
piece shell ( lower cost)...
Hmm wonder if Ron aint working on stealth project number two ???...lol

In the beginning there was the Trainmaster....then through evolution its
new Genesis was the GE...P1

Still AM have their Amtrak sets...and switcher sets....these are around $250...

Has anyone had interest expressed in one of these sets at shows???

Arguably not the sub 200 mark...

Yes I do like the sound of a modern AMTRAK loco...leave the handrails
off...they are cows to carve off...:-)

Now ..an ACELA. set.. ( licensing costs would probably kill this??? )..but
again only two items to make...power and trailer cars....wouldnt a few kids
love to have one of them wizzing around a tree??

back to the medication I feel

>:~))
Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 20944 From: Richard Snook Date: 9/3/2002
Subject: ambiguity clarified
Before yo start !!! lol :-))

It may have seemed that I inferred that the current crop of sets and
product was less than prototypical...actually it was meant to read the
other way...i.e That we have some damn fine reproductions in our scale (
barring a couple of oops!! )...and thats its a generic effort ..if
cheaper...or incorrect paint schemes applied to newver owned by road
equipment thatmight be boxed for the purposes of sales and presentation.

Better now....??..lol...clear as mud!!

cheers
>:~))
Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 20945 From: David Dewey Date: 9/3/2002
Subject: Re: Ertl' 'starter' set
Thorin said, "Throw in catalogs for AM and SHS and ???. Include propaganda
from
NASG, and you have a starter set that I WILL BUY!"

(Following sentence is said with a Very Big Grin)
BUT YOU'RE NOT THE MARKET FOR THESE SETS!! Neither am I, although I'd bet
I'd buy one too! I think you might have a good set idea, although
historically passenger sets never sold as well as frieght sets--but that may
NOT be a valid statistic nowadays.
BTW, I did buy TWO Ertl sets, one to mess with, on to leave untouched so it
can be a future "collectable." Hey, at $13 a set, figured I could splurge!
Besides, I had a little Christmas Gift money still.
As I recall, the wide flange on the loco was because the gear drive was on
the back of the wheels, ala Marx stuff.
S
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20946 From: David Dewey Date: 9/3/2002
Subject: Re: Steam tender electrical pickup shoe
John,
Tender pickup sliders were used on many different locos. I believe they
were added originally to cut down on static on the "whistle" speakers, but
that is merely speculation on my part. I don't have on handy to look at
right now, but I think the truck has to have a pin riveted on to hold the
slider in place.I think all the KC trucks have the hole for the pin.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20947 From: Don Thompson Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Re: Chicago
Robin and I will be at the International Hobby and Model Show in
Rosemont this week. This year the non-trade day (open day) is Sunday.
If you are in the area, we can show you some of our new items.
Don

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 20948 From: Peter Ervin Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Haunted House - Where can you order it?
Where can one order the Lemax Haunted House that Rick mentioned?

Peter Ervin


At 10:49 AM 9/4/2002 +0000, you wrote:
> Hey Keith and all,...
> Picked up my new Lemax Haunted House from the,..Oooooooo..."Spooky
> Town" collection,
>.. for the little Fall layout today, from Michaels. Has a rotating device
>inside that flashes ghost figures through
>the windows and the roof skylight! $29.99,...20% off today. Power adaptor
>included. This will be the center,..or
>off center piece for the little layout.
> I don't remember the Spooky Town stuff last year, but I was told they
> were out last year.
>
>
>Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20949 From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Re: Haunted House - Where can you order it?
Yo:

Note sure about ordering but you should be able to find them at a number of
department or craft stores. I just picked up a couple at Michael's last
night. Last year I got one at Wal-Mart. Also I have seen them at K-Mart.

The department stores should start having them as soon as the back to school
items are sold.

Tommy

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Ervin [mailto:pjervin@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 8:27 AM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Haunted House - Where can you order it?


Where can one order the Lemax Haunted House that Rick mentioned?

Peter Ervin


At 10:49 AM 9/4/2002 +0000, you wrote:
> Hey Keith and all,...
> Picked up my new Lemax Haunted House from the,..Oooooooo..."Spooky
> Town" collection,
>.. for the little Fall layout today, from Michaels. Has a rotating device
>inside that flashes ghost figures through
>the windows and the roof skylight! $29.99,...20% off today. Power adaptor
>included. This will be the center,..or
>off center piece for the little layout.
> I don't remember the Spooky Town stuff last year, but I was told they
> were out last year.
>
>
>Rick.


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Group: S-Trains Message: 20950 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1570
Dave G. asked:
>I have an old (1940's) American Flyer train set which I would like to find
>a good home for. . . . Locomotive: 4-8-4 steamer, silver Union Pacific
emblem on tender -- >in original box. Train: 6 passenger cars, dark red
(burgundy?) .... a couple of them faded
>on one side, couplers need work on some of them. Do not have all boxes.
>Assorted track including two switches with changing signal lights
(red/green).
>I also have a LARGE transformer/power pack somewhere, but it got separated
>from the train set when I moved a couple years ago.

>Any *wild* guesses as to what a fair asking price might be ?

Oh, Dave:
If only I were the kind of chiseler you can find out there, I try to explain
in painstaking detail why this whole set is so common and only worth 50
bucks, but how I'm going to do you a favor and give you $75 to take it off
your hands. That dog won't hunt, so I'm going to have to tell the truth.

Whoever told you that the engine was worth $800 was probably not too far off
the money. The cars are worth a few bucks too. I need a few details from
you to nail the price a little closer to the mark, however.

Is the engine # 332, 336 or is it a 5 digit number? Link couplers or
knuckle? Were couplers converted to knuckle? What is printed under the cab
window and on the paper wrapper or box. Is the reverse unit in the tender,
or hanging from the back of the engine cab? Are the cars all Pullman
heavyweights or are some of them New Haven middleweights? How about a
listing of the cars? What boxes do you have? If this was originally a set,
do you have the overall set box? If you do, what is the printed set number?
What is broken or missing? (steps, handrails, numberboards, doors,
couplers). Is there any rust, corrosion, scratches and where?

American Flyer heavyweight cars can command well over $100, up to about $225
apiece.
New Haven cars generally sell for about $30 to $40 each.
A remote control mail-pickup car (probably included here) will bring about
$50-60 if the stanchion and mailbags are included.
The switches will bring $35-50 for the pair and the largest Flyer
transformer, the 30B, can be had fully reconditioned with a new line cord
for about $150.

Big motor 336 Northerns routinely draw $500-600 on e-Bay. If you have a
five-digit engine with the 2 position reverse in the cab, we are looking at
substantially more, up in the thousand dollar range. If you have a 332, you
still can get $350 for it.

Condition is everything. You mention fading. Painted Flyer heavyweights
don't fade much, so this needs to be seen and evaluated. It will lower the
value. Boxes have added value, especially if they are appropriately rubber
stamped with the contents and if the end flaps are all intact (a rarity).
Engine wraps survived better and are also stamped. Set boxes are the most
desirable, especially with all the appropriate inserts. However, all the
boxes might only add about 1 to 2 hundred dollars to a complete set. The
trains still come first. A really fine set, completely nested in all its
proper boxes, becomes attractive to collectors who seek sets, collectors who
might otherwise have passed your trains by. So having the boxes widens your
market base.

On the other hand, why bother yourself with all this nonsense. I'll up my
offer to $100 and you're away clean! Whaddya say?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20951 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Ertl' 'starter' set questions
Dear Daniel and Larry:
The GP-35 is actually a very nice shell. It might be good scratch
building fodder, I did not measure it. The box car is very crude as is the
flat and the caboose. To my untrained eye they did not look accurate.
(They are assemble-yourself and have GREAT play value!) The top of the cab,
where the flasher should be, is a direction slide switch. The rear 42" fan
is the power switch - push on / push off.
No handrails. (Good design here -- this is a TOY.) The flat has
two tractors which have lots of play value.
It also includes a loading platform with ramp. THIS turned out to
be the real toy in the box! Samantha played with the loading platform and a
couple of Hot Wheels for more than two years!

I am into traction, both heavy and light. My hunt was for a cheap power
truck for homebrews. The 3 volt motor is not an obstacle but those massive
flanges are. Also, the truck is designed so the gears 'slip' when the load
is too great. It is not a good hauler.

As I said before: if the flanges were right and the track were more rugged
(or extra pieces included), Ertl actually had a winner! This has the
potential to be an excellent TOY!

Larry, the set is not for sale. I purchased it directly at the factory
store in Dyersville, Iowa. I lost possession of the set before we left the
parking lot to my daughter. ("No problem," I though. "I can purchase MY
OWN set later.") So the set is not mine -- it is Samantha's.
I closely examined hers and discovered it was incompatible with AF
track. And not made well enough to be worth the effort to try and salvage.
Which is a real pity. DCC will very happily run a 0 - 3 volt motor.

Thorin

P.S. I received a Truscott Franklin set in 1964 which started me in S.
(And it been all downhill from there, right? :-) ) Occasionally I still
pull it out and run it. If I had 'scale' track and not 'Highrail', I would
still run it as ACE sells replacement SCALE flange wheelsets. The
Franklin's drivers can be cut down or I could replace the tires with ?MMT?
tires -- I saw them at S-Fest last year so it can be easily converted to run
on code 110 track.
If I had the Ertl set as my first set it would not be convertible to
either a true Tinplate layout nor a 110 code track without a ridiculous
amount of work. So it is a dead end.

One thing no one has mentioned in this discussion is the fact that the low
end American Flyer and Lionel sets were sold at a LOSS! I have read several
times that the starter sets would have been cheaper for the immediate bottom
line if they just put a $5.00 dollar bill in an empty box! The starter set
was to lore them in. So who out there can afford to slip a $5.00 loss into
every starter set?

Thorin "Don't look at me -- I'm broke" Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Waskes [mailto:dwaskes@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 7:14 PM
To: Marty.Thorin
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Ertl' 'starter' set


Thorin,
Are the shells worth using? Otherwise your foray into
Ertl looks like a complete washout. I don't think
cheap exists anywhere in S scale.

-----Original Message-----
From: lawrence Jackman [mailto:ljack70117@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 6:13 PM
To: Marty.Thorin
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Ertl' 'starter' set


How much was the set? Any chance I could talk you out of it? I will pay the
postage.
Thank you
Larry Jackman

--- "Marty.Thorin" <thorin.marty@...>
wrote:
> To all:
> I keep hearing many people say "We need a cheep
> starter set." and
> often mentioning the Ertl set.
>
> I purchased one with the intention of discovering if
> I had a cheep power
> truck.
>
> Ertl, in their infinite wisdom, chose to use flanges
> even deeper than
> Flyonel's deepest and to make them a full 1/8 inch
> wide at the bottom edge.
> Thus you have the normal 42 inch wheel. Then the
> flange flairs out. Then a
> second step 1/8 inch wide is found!
> The Ertl power truck will not go through AF
> switches (the super-wide
> flanges don't clear the frog). The Ertl will not go
> through the crossing
> nor the re-railer either. I thought briefly of
> carving them down and
> stopped before I started.
> The cars have same flange problems. So I thought
> "Can I use AF
> wheelsets?" Nope. Ertl used a unique wheel where
> the axel end is recessed
> into the wheel! They get a prototypical width truck
> but the wheelsets can
> not be substituted for.
>
> The track that came with it was a plastic version of
> PikeMaster. It is not
> strong. Samantha (my daughter) broke one of the
> curves the first week. I
> pulled out Gen-U-Whine American Flyer curves and
> straights and it runs
> great. But I can't enlarge the layout by adding
> switches!
> The Ertl switch (turnout) is an open frog design.
> It works well
> with the Ertl but it does not work with AF. Again,
> flanges.
>
> The set is in the junk heap, where it will remain.
>
> Unless someone redesigned the trucks (and the
> switch), this set is a dead
> end. No true S-Gauge will ever purchase more than
> one of these disasters.
> (Note I am not maligning the battery nor the lack of
> control.)
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> Do we want a cheap starter set? Have someone cut a
> Genesis shell. ALL
> details cast on except the horn. Window plastic is
> optional. Power only
> one truck.
> Make ONE passenger car shell. Again, all details
> cast on. Windows
> optional. (A 50 - 60 foot shortie.)
> Include 20 oversized people. (10 - 20 scale feet
> tall.)
> Throw in an oval of track, power pack (DC), one
> loco, three
> passenger cars, and the people. Print the station
> on the inside of the box
> and let them cut it out and put it together
> themselves.
> Yes, make the whole set AF compatible. But make it
> all from new
> stock. Those with access to true AF will add
> switches on day one. As for
> this fictious company, add switches in year two.
> (AF compatible means AF
> size flanges, AF 'lobster claw' type couplers that I
> love so much (dummies /
> Pike Master are fine), and the track mates with AF
> track without any
> conversion. It would be nice if the trucks could
> accept ACE or SHS or AM
> wheelsets as replacements.)
> Throw in catalogs for AM and SHS and ???. Include
> propaganda from
> NASG, and you have a starter set that I WILL BUY!
>
> Thorin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20952 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Haunted House - Where can you order it?
Peter asked...


***(((Where can one order the Lemax Haunted House that Rick mentioned?)))***

There is a Lemax site,... www.lemax.com I believe,....however, it was down yesterday
when I tried. I was told that our Wal-mart had some Fall buildings,....not sure of
brand,..I am checking it out this morning.

Rick.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20953 From: TCS Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - All scales
722 L&N 2 bay airslide. (4-71)

723 L&N boxcar red open hopper. (1-73)

724 GACX 4 bay covered hopper. (9-91) Hauls plastic pellets.

725 GACX Trinity 3 bay covered hopper. 5161 cuft. (5-96)

Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-.
N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These
should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so.

If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N,
HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $2.00 for p&h. You buy this catalog once,
then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring
binder.

---
---
Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals
N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals for prototype models
26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054
Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@...
Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/
Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/
NMRA Member #121756
Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
MPHS web site http://mopac.org/
Group: S-Trains Message: 20954 From: John McCarthy Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Reverse Loop question
Dear Fellow S gaugers,

I am in the process of building a new layout
and have discovered the thrill of "reverse loops".

Does anyone know where I can acquire a new
easy to use automatic reverse loop handling control
device that works for AC highrail?

Many Thanks!

John McCarthy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20955 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Re: Reverse Loop question
Great question! With all the electronics gear out there, we could use a "no
brainer" R-L gizmo


Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: John McCarthy [mailto:mccarthy@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 12:50 PM
To: S-Trains
Subject: [S-Trains] Reverse Loop question


Dear Fellow S gaugers,

I am in the process of building a new layout
and have discovered the thrill of "reverse loops".

Does anyone know where I can acquire a new
easy to use automatic reverse loop handling control
device that works for AC highrail?

Many Thanks!

John McCarthy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



+

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 20956 From: TCS Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Re: [RM-forum] Re: New decals from Oddballs Decals - All scales
Damn, I knew I forgot something, thanks Dan

Tom Stolte
Oddballs Decals

----- Original Message -----
From: "gtw_fan_risdon" <gtw_fan_risdon@...>
To: <RAILROADmodeler@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 1:36 PM
Subject: [RM-forum] Re: New decals from Oddballs Decals - All scales


> > 724 GACX 4 bay covered hopper. (9-91) Hauls plastic pellets.
> >
>
> For anyone that cares, this set includes both GACX and GPLX reporting
> marks since both of these seem to be identical. It is correct for a
> Trinity 6221 CuFt, not a perfect match for the Walthers pellet hopper
> (NSC), make some modifications to the walthers car and it looks good.
>
> Dan Risdon
Group: S-Trains Message: 20957 From: Tim Brown Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1570
I'll double your offer and throw in a $5 gift certificate at McDonalds for their new "good fat" fries.
-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Zizzo
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Cc: stargate7@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1570


Dave G. asked:
>I have an old (1940's) American Flyer train set which I would like to find
>a good home for. . . . Locomotive: 4-8-4 steamer, silver Union Pacific
emblem on tender -- >in original box. Train: 6 passenger cars, dark red
(burgundy?) .... a couple of them faded
>on one side, couplers need work on some of them. Do not have all boxes.
>Assorted track including two switches with changing signal lights
(red/green).
>I also have a LARGE transformer/power pack somewhere, but it got separated
>from the train set when I moved a couple years ago.

>Any *wild* guesses as to what a fair asking price might be ?

Oh, Dave:
If only I were the kind of chiseler you can find out there, I try to explain
in painstaking detail why this whole set is so common and only worth 50
bucks, but how I'm going to do you a favor and give you $75 to take it off
your hands. That dog won't hunt, so I'm going to have to tell the truth.

Whoever told you that the engine was worth $800 was probably not too far off
the money. The cars are worth a few bucks too. I need a few details from
you to nail the price a little closer to the mark, however.

Is the engine # 332, 336 or is it a 5 digit number? Link couplers or
knuckle? Were couplers converted to knuckle? What is printed under the cab
window and on the paper wrapper or box. Is the reverse unit in the tender,
or hanging from the back of the engine cab? Are the cars all Pullman
heavyweights or are some of them New Haven middleweights? How about a
listing of the cars? What boxes do you have? If this was originally a set,
do you have the overall set box? If you do, what is the printed set number?
What is broken or missing? (steps, handrails, numberboards, doors,
couplers). Is there any rust, corrosion, scratches and where?

American Flyer heavyweight cars can command well over $100, up to about $225
apiece.
New Haven cars generally sell for about $30 to $40 each.
A remote control mail-pickup car (probably included here) will bring about
$50-60 if the stanchion and mailbags are included.
The switches will bring $35-50 for the pair and the largest Flyer
transformer, the 30B, can be had fully reconditioned with a new line cord
for about $150.

Big motor 336 Northerns routinely draw $500-600 on e-Bay. If you have a
five-digit engine with the 2 position reverse in the cab, we are looking at
substantially more, up in the thousand dollar range. If you have a 332, you
still can get $350 for it.

Condition is everything. You mention fading. Painted Flyer heavyweights
don't fade much, so this needs to be seen and evaluated. It will lower the
value. Boxes have added value, especially if they are appropriately rubber
stamped with the contents and if the end flaps are all intact (a rarity).
Engine wraps survived better and are also stamped. Set boxes are the most
desirable, especially with all the appropriate inserts. However, all the
boxes might only add about 1 to 2 hundred dollars to a complete set. The
trains still come first. A really fine set, completely nested in all its
proper boxes, becomes attractive to collectors who seek sets, collectors who
might otherwise have passed your trains by. So having the boxes widens your
market base.

On the other hand, why bother yourself with all this nonsense. I'll up my
offer to $100 and you're away clean! Whaddya say?

Chris Zizzo



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20958 From: crustyfour Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Spookytown buildings
Michaels has a web page on the spookytown buildings that Rick
mentioned. Here's a link to it:

http://www.michaels.com/art/online/static?page=halloween_lemax

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 20959 From: crustyfour Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Incredible operating layout
While cruising the net I came upon this neat web site. It appears to
be O gauge but nevertheless, it has incredible amount of ingenius
operating accessories. A lot of neat ideas for your S layout here.
Check it out at:

http://www.spikesland.com/2001/gallery.html

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 20960 From: David A. Highfield Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Re: Incredible operating layout
Yep, this display is in Baltimore and is always very impressive.
Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: "crustyfour" <splitdorf@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 3:11 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Incredible operating layout


> While cruising the net I came upon this neat web site. It appears to be O
gauge but nevertheless, it has incredible amount of ingenius operating
accessories. A lot of neat ideas for your S layout here. Check it out at:
>
> http://www.spikesland.com/2001/gallery.html
>
> Steve Blancard
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20961 From: Tim Brown Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Layout
Nice toy train layout. I was thinking of using Legos to build pillars for elevated track on my layout. Seems to me I could paint them and have instant block pillars. Thanks for the link - there are some nice ideas going on.
-Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20962 From: Rhett T. George Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Repair questions
- Greeting`S' -

Charlie asked good questions. If you can leave the cars apart for a couple
of days while the liquid part evaporates, then Walther's Goo should work
well. Put a dab in an inconspicuous place to determine that the glue does
not adversely affect (melt and shrink) the plastic. Ambroid is good and
carries the same caveat. Elmers White Glue is pretty much harmless. Glue
from a hot glue gun is very quick and usually sticks well.

I prefer clear plastic for the windows with something frosted (like white
paper) within the car to diffuse the light.

A pounce wheel (for marking fabric thru a pattern with something like
carbon paper), a roulette wheel (for punching perforations as between
stamps in a sheet), and a thin stamped steel gear from a wind-up alarm
clock are all nearly the same when it comes to making rivets.

Cheer`S'
Rhett
Group: S-Trains Message: 20963 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: PRICE OF SETS
Be careful in pricing stuff.....Its "ONLY WORTH WHAT SOMEONE WILL PAY FOR IT
IN COLD HARD CASH....PRICE GUIDES CAN BE MISLEADING"....I have recently
purchased several nice boxed sets....A 322 pass and A 325 freight....both
with original boxes for about 1/2 the price guide price...both E...how many
of you have seen an Atlantic Engine in a store for 100.00...."Well thats
what people told me its worth!!!!!" Even the price guides will tell you (
greenburg ) to total it all up and you might get 1/2 ( Raraites excepted...I
am going to put up a 641 gray gon and a 646 diecast flood this fall...I am
sure these will exceed price guide prices of 200 and 300 each)

Bob Conner
Group: S-Trains Message: 20964 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: LE MAX
Best place is to buy this stuff...and its great is at michaels...but be sure
too check the papers for 40% off coupons....I never buy unless I get the 40
discount...nice stuff for 10.00 and up to 30.00....check your neighbors
papers and get extra coupons too....have about 25 now....then wait till near
the holiday...they mark it all down to 40% off or more....Got lots of nice
trees for pennys last year....Got the lighted tree display box...nice for
about 5.00...This stuff is as good as dept 56 ( which will not allow any
discount below retail) Bob Conner

ps need to get the halloween item this year....btw...toys r us had a real
nice series about two years ago that was special to them...got all of it for
50% off....Love the lights - minis - on the christmas trees too....
Group: S-Trains Message: 20965 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: repair question - window cement
The best glue to use for replacing window strips is DUCO in the green tube.
The window strips are acetate plastic, and DUCO is an acetate cement.
Apply it to both sides with toothpicks, then join. Careful -- it will
wreck finishes. You can clamp the windows for a few minutes with clothes
pins, using small steel mending plates to hold the windows flat.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 20966 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Some scoop on Lemax's Spooky Town stuff!!
Well....
I just got back from Wal-Mart,...saw the Lemax "The Alford Mansion", regular price...
$22.94 !! The one I bought at Michaels was $29.99 , on sale for 20% off!!

I bought the Lemax "Dr. Tingles Laboratory" at Wal-Mart for $22.94...price
at Michaels.....$34.99!! But they do offer 20% off though. Still,..cheaper at
Wal-Mart.

Only difference is the way they are boxed,....and Wal-Mart is printed on their box!
I really wasn't going to but another,....but at that Wal-Mart price,...I just HAD too!

Rick "BOOoooOOOoooo" Evans.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20967 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Re: LE MAX
***(((Best place is to buy this stuff...and its great is at michaels...but be sure
too check the papers for 40% off coupons....)))***

Yep, Robert is right,....I wish I had the coupons on Monday when I went to Michaels,...
My buddy used a couple,...he said he would start saving them for me,...I don't get the paper
they come in!

Rick.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20968 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Positively My Last Post on Starter Sets
For those of you who were championing K-Line as the new S manufacturer,
perhaps you will find this interesting.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1762584668

I wrote the seller and he replied, as follows:

Q:_________________________

>>Hi:
>>Why did K-Line, makers of 0 gauge equipment, make an S gauge car for the
S-Fest?
>>
>>Or was this some hybrid deal where a smallish 0 gauge car was bought in
quantity and >>converted to S by the host club, possibly through Russ Downs
or someone like him?
>>
>>Are you aware of the history of this car?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Chris Zizzo

A:_________________________

>Hi Chris,
>K-LINE made cars that were close to 3/16 scale.
>Marx cars also are close to 3/16 scale
>Lionel made some 027 reefer cars that are close to 3/16 scale.
>To the best of my knowledge, the S-Fest car was purchased from K-LINE,
>AF trucks were purchased from LIONEL, installed, and painted for the S
>FEST paint scheme as the special meet car.
>Thanks for the question.
>Dave A.

___________________________

Currently, it holds at $61. It looks almost like a Flyer car.
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20969 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1570
Don

It's a matter of opinion about this year's S-Fest dates.

Seems all the guys on the left coast are happy as clams but the guys on the right coast are groanin'.

Can't win no matter. There's a conflict with the usual weekend in November. October seemd like a better idea than December for a match up with The GATS show at Dupage.

John Griffin
Group: S-Trains Message: 20970 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Re: PRICE OF SETS
Bob Conner said the truth:
>Even the price guides will tell you (greenburg) to total it all up and you
might get 1/2.

Here's the problem:

While a wide open marketplace like E-Bay just knocks the sauce out of
antique store "rarities" like a rusty 302 Atlantic for $200, a reverse
pressure occurs in the dicey world of collection buying. It should be no
surprise to anyone that the largest influx of good Flyer into the
marketplace is no longer from childhood sets stored in the attic. We
cleaned out those crawl spaces in the seventies! No, the big source now is
dead guys.

Sorry to be so blunt, but that's where the trains are coming from. Not one
set at a time are arriving either, but whole collections; dozens of sets and
individual pieces. OK, some are from people liquidating their own stuff,
but not so much. Here's what I find. They come onto the market when the
wife dies and the kids liquidate the collection that stood idle because Mom
couldn't bear to part with anything.

Now the kids are no fools. They read up, do their homework, and calculate
they are into a rich gold vein. They want TOP dollar, based on individual
sales, as if they were a dealer with a shop, selling for retail. They don't
want to piece out the collection, either. They expect you to pay the top
Greenberg line for each and every piece and buy it as one collection. They
don't want to hear that what they are doing is wholesaling for retail
prices. They don't want to hear that rusty and missing side rods render a
steamer less than top shelf material. In fact, I have had one guy ADD a
premium for boxes based upon some article he read.

I don't buy from such people. I explain the facts of life and I make my
offer. Then along comes a guy with a bottomless wallet and pays all
premiums and everything they ever wanted and more. I have names, folks.
You know these guys from TCA. So, what kind of a market is that? A nutty
market; one based in emotion and rose colored views of the glory of American
Flyer. This is one really serious reason that I don't buy much Flyer
anymore and I don't buy from civilians. They're crazy and there are crazier
people in this hobby who validate them.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20971 From: Al Galli Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Auction
The Train Gallery Auctions, LLP is having an auction 9/27. Some nice Flyer
will be sold including set 20445- the NP passenger set, 910 Gilbert Chemical
car, 583 crane OB, 343 and more. We have emailed our catalog to those on
our list. If your email address has changed let me know. If you wish to be
added to the list also let me know.

Thanks

Al Galli
Group: S-Trains Message: 20972 From: Richard Snook Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: just curiouS
Now ..does anyone KNOW te answer t othis?? :-))

ALl conjecture and assumptions at door please>>

The Bachmann On30 set...often sells through the majors at around
$150.00...its listed way higher...$299.00 or sumphink!!!

Anyone with real knowledge....what is ACTUAL wholesale price of these sets ???

I for one would love to know :-))

is also relevant to the historical notion that AF etc door-busted their
sets!! ( have no doubt they probably did)

Thanks in advance

pls resume normal program

>:~))
Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 20973 From: Richard Snook Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: An Oponion !!
For those not having seen an ERTL Geep up close..
heres an opinoin of the shell as we can safely FORGET anyhting it rides
on!! lol

The Shell...Is remarkably well done for a toy..seriously!!...they have
either accidently done us a favour..or had incredible and lateral
foresight...to leave off many normally molded on details.( grabs...no
handrails..etc ..a real favour actually)...the doors and louvres are fair
to reasonable..the rad-screens are pretty good really.

The shell is not a GP35...but its close...is probably a "hills" marraige
between a 38 and a 35 ..with some bits getting lost in the journey....the
cab has one detail which CAN be strangely correct..the windows are offset
form centre..This IS correct for some locos..( check your prototype )..No
Martha...not all GM's were made the same..even though they set the mark for
standardisation!!

If I could ever wrestle mine from my kids..I could probably turn it into a
decent background model without too much effort...like any model...to folow
a specific prototype will require a bit more cutting and pasting...the good
ol plastic way!!

This shell is no worse than Athearns GP9 original version ( with all its
glaring errors...hood width being main one) ...and the ERTL has that on the
money!!

well for what its worth..thats my appraisal.

cheers
>:~))
Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 20974 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Repair Questions-2
Greetings to all!
My thanks for the suggestions on adhesives for window material. I located a
pounce wheel today and tried to make rivets but did not have a lot of
success ... any suggestions from the group? Still need help with the
location of the lettering for the 650/51 ... any dimensions you can provide
would really be appreciated! My thanks and best wishes, Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 20975 From: jahoozdumm Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Re: Positively My Last Post on Starter Sets
Interestingly, the car in the auction is NOT S scale, or even "S
scale", since it was made from the tooling that Marx used for their
top-of-the-line "deluxe " (per Greenberg) sets. Those cars
were "Lionel-ized" 0 gauge, most are too big for S. (The triple dome
tank car is an exception.) The plastic Marx cars that were S scale
were from the "medium" (8 wheel) and "lightweight" (4 wheel) lines,
such as the 13975 ATSF stock car, which is the same width as a
Gilbert stock car.

I don't know if K-line even owns the Marx tooling for the medium or
lightweight cars. In any case, they use the deluxe tooling in their
line, as well as some former Kusan tooling.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20976 From: jack nichol Date: 9/4/2002
Subject: Prices reduced!
Hi all!

I've reduced the existing prices and have listed over 30 additional items to
my "available Flyer" listing.

http://members.cox.net/nickstrains/AmerFlyer.htm

Take a look and let me know if you're interested. I'll take any reasonable
offers as I need to move this stuff to free up space before the holidays.

Thanks much!





_________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 20977 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: Re: just curiouS
Richard wrote...
***(((The Bachmann On30 set...often sells through the majors at around
$150.00...its listed way higher...$299.00 or sumphink!!!
Anyone with real knowledge....what is ACTUAL wholesale price of these sets ???)))***

All I know is the local train store in my little bumpkin part of the world,..is
selling them for $159.00.


Rick.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20978 From: David Dewey Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: Re: just curiouS
Regarding ACG selling starter sets at a loss. I'm not unfamiliar with "loss
leaders" or cost accounting, but I seriously doubt that the starter sets
were a loss in the "big years" of toy trains. For one thing, there are just
too many 307 and 302 type locos around. If ACG was loosing money on these,
there just aren't enough of the "larger" engines and accessories around to
offset the losses. Profit margins might have been tight, but not a loss,
IMHO. Actually the manufacturing costs of a 307 and a 287 were not that far
apart (slightly larger boiler shell, and chassis, one extra wheel and axle
set--maybe 50¢ and a little extra labor, another 50¢--WAG on my part), so
the 287 made more money per unit, but the volumes of 287 was nowhere near
the 307, based on surviving locomotives. Now the stores might have sold
them at a loss, but I doubt that before Christmas, after all these were the
HOT toys of their time. After Christmas, all bets are off, as it's then,
"move 'em or loose 'em"--one reason the new discount stores wanted the
suppliers to buy back left-overs.
Granted, extra profits were made selling switches, etc. (a pair of
electrical switches was only $2 less than the entry-level train set). Notice
also, that as one moved up in the product line, set prices were kept lower
by NOT including the transformer! This was true all years. (my two yard king
sets didn't come with them, both 3 digit and 5 digit versions--but I know
the original purchaser of the 5 digit one @ $62.50 bought the BIG 22080
transformer @ $31.50--GADS, in 1958 that was almost $100--except I know he
bought them mail-order at a discount of some sort) BTW, he had previously
purchased a 302 Set (number has faded off the box), so is this an example of
"adding on & moving up"? Judging by the age difference in his kids, I'd say
it was about two years between the purchases.
Ok, the rest of you number crunchers, tell me what you think of my random
thoughts!
S'
David D.
PS I'll plead I stayed up too late if this makes no sense at all in the AM!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20979 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: "Old 1940's Trainset"
Greetings,

Is it possible that this is a "pre-war" O gauge Flyer set? Does it have
2 rail or 3 rail track?

Bill

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Group: S-Trains Message: 20980 From: stargate7@cox.net Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: Re: Help -- American Flyer pricing?
Hi all, I'm back ..... I took some digital pics of the American Flyer
equipment I have (and am going to sell), for anyone that wants to see
it. Problem is, I have 7 photo files totalling about 4.3 MB, and of course
JPEGs won't compress hardly at all. I hate to have to send a separate
email for each pic .... I suppose I should just create a website ? I need
to anyway ...

I also typed out a list of items with whatever part #s I could find, along
with brief descriptions. Some of you said this would make it easier to
make a "guesstimate" on the value so that I could come up with an asking
price (or starting bid). I can email it to those of you who indicated you
might be able to help, and still wish to .... let me know. I can paste it
into emails (addressed to individuals, not to the list), or attach as an MS
Word file. Thanks again !

Cheers,
- Dave G.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20981 From: stargate7@cox.net Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer equip. 4Sale
Hi all ... Regarding the American Flyer equipment I said I was getting
ready to sell or auction:

I believe I have sent a listing of the items to all of you who expressed an
interest in reading it. As I indicated, I just wanted a little help in
determining pricing that would be fair to both the buyer and to myself. I
am 99% sure I am going to place it in an auction, but I guess time will
tell. Thanks in advance for your insights and help !

If I have missed sending the list to anyone, please let me know. Also, I
will have pics ready later, I am just trying to figure out how to present
them. As I told David Dewey, I don't want to have to send a separate email
for each pic, since I am limited to about 1 MB in email, and the pics are
all in the 600 to 700 KB range. And, JPEGs will hardly compress at all. I
may just end up putting them on a website, I have needed to create one anyway.

Sincerely,
Dave Gates
Group: S-Trains Message: 20982 From: Tim Brown Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: My Toy Train Layout Revisited
Hi All,

I recently finished an expansion of my Flyer toy train layout. You may find it interesting and unusual.

Please visit my web page at:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html

Regards,
Tim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20983 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: Re: just curiouS
David, with regard to your price of the 22080 transformer, I
calculated that $31.50 adjusted for inflation from 1958 would be
approx. $191.93 in today's dollars. I arrived at this figure using an
inflation conversion chart which was derived from the Consumer Price
Index numbers from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. The
multiplier for 1958 is 6.093. The actual catalog price for the
22080 is $39.95 which works out to approx. $243.42. I guess
going "top shelf" wasn't cheap in those days either! Jim Duncan
Group: S-Trains Message: 20984 From: stargate7@cox.net Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer items
Dear group -

Per request from several of you, I have emailed a copy of the list of
American Flyer items I am going to be selling or auctioning.

As I indicated in the beginning, my primary purpose in writing about this
equipment was to get assistance in figuring out an asking price (or
starting bid) for the items, that would be fair to both a potential buyer
and to myself. I am not quite ready to formally put the equipment up for
sale (or auction) -- I want to gather and digest the information being sent
to me first. So .... I just wanted to say that I'm not necessarily
"fishing" for offers by sending this list out -- I did so with the
intention of just getting assessment/pricing info.

However, I will save emails with any offers I receive and keep them in
mind. When I arrive at what I feel is a fair asking price or starting bid,
I will post a brief notice on the group list, and either (a) state an
asking price in a "For Sale" ad, or (b) provide a link to the auction on
eBay, depending on what I decide to do.

*** Which reminds me ... can I please be informed as to how to post a "For
Sale" ad on the list ? I don't seem to see info on the group page.

Thank you again for your kind assistance, and for your interest !

Very sincerely,
Dave Gates
Group: S-Trains Message: 20985 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1571
The 1940 Flyer set is with a 4-8-4 is probably a #572, a #508 is
earlier, both are 3 rail, both have link couplers, some Early passenger
cars were cast metal and very heavy and had a tendency to crack and fall
apart, some of later cars are tin plate, most are 6 wheel trucks. I
believe the track is 31" rad. with built in super elevation. These sets
are very hard to price. I do run mine and they are very impressive, the
tender has a choo-choo unit inside (no smoke, just choo-choo). Most of
the freight cars are similar to S cars except 3 rail.

Jerry 77-11644

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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 20986 From: kc6ktj Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: Digest #20623
Found and Received!

Thank You!
Group: S-Trains Message: 20987 From: kc6ktj Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: A. F. Christmas Car, LTI, Pt. #48341 "1999"
Wanted Christmas Car. Greenberg Guide, make's no reference to the
Type of car. Maybe! A Box Car? If! Anyone knows where car, can be
found. Please! Provide Information. Please! No reference's to e-bay.
Thank You.
Group: S-Trains Message: 20988 From: kc6ktj Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: A.F. Mystik talking Station Pc. # 755
Wanted! Recording disc (Record): Where can replacement disc be
found??
Group: S-Trains Message: 20989 From: Tim Brown Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: Re: My Toy Train Layout Revisited
Hi,

I do have some steep grades. The steepest is going down. I run the trains in one direction only, so that is no problem for now. Both my Hudson and K5 can pull 9-10 cars up the grades to the elevated shelf. I found it helpful to rough-up the rails a little with a file. Not exactly sure what a "mountain" type steamer is - unless you're referring to a large motor challenger, which I don't have. My Franklin does surprisingly well going up the grades as well.

I knew going into this elevated extension that I would have grades in the area of 3% or more 'cuz space is at a premium. I can always shuttle cars up and down a few at a time and run a longish train up on top quite well.

I'm experimenting with making curved bridges out of Erector parts. That may help me remove a few of the wooden pillars. I think building a crane would be a nice candidate for experimentation using Erector parts also.

Thanks for your interest Steve.

Regards,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Blancard
To: Tim Brown
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] My Toy Train Layout Revisited


Nice layout Tim. Looks like you have some steep grades. Are you running a "mountain" type steamer ? ;-)

Steve Blancard

Tim Brown wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I recently finished an expansion of my Flyer toy train layout. You may find it interesting and unusual.
>
> Please visit my web page at:
> http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20990 From: hgetrain Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: 0-6-0T Docksider
I have been unable to find any prototype for the AF 21155/56/58
switchers. Does one exist or is this an AF creation? The only real
docksider locomotives I have found are 0-4-0s. Can anyone point me to
information on the prototype?

Harry Eberhardt
Group: S-Trains Message: 20991 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: Re: "Old 1940's Trainset"
Cars are dark red aka maroon.
Pre-war cars were green.
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 20992 From: Richard Snook Date: 9/5/2002
Subject: Thanks all :-)
Thanks guys for the replies re pricing into stores.( re Bachmann)
...margins etc..

creates a two edged conundrum......that being the oppositions product is
inexpensive...but that also means it could be done...arguable same numer
spread doesnt apply so readily...but a product aimed across a number of
interests.( not all train )..and it could be feasible.

But we'll bury this again til 2 years hence where upon I call upon all the
good people to meet ( and greet) ...to convene ...to discuss the eternal
vexation once more

Anyone got a spare AUD $300,000 lying around ...thats only about $175,00 of
your bills.. lol

to think we're that close !!! lol


ah well ...will try lotto on the weekend...who knows

cheers
>:~))
Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 20993 From: Dale Smith Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: America's Railroads on Parade
I am going on a business trip to Williamsburg, VA next week and had hoped to see this attraction, which I understand has an excellent S gauge railroad on display. I checked for their website, which I believe there used to be, but couldn't contact it. Have they closed? Does anyone have any information on this place. Thanks for your help.

Dale Smith
Pacifica, CA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20994 From: Ron Inscho Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] 0-6-0T Docksider
This kind of engine was usually used by a contractor or an industrial
railroad . and the 0-6-0 was just a bit more than what most users needed as
they were operated on rough or even temporary track that required these
engines to be easy on the track & keeping the weight to about 25 to 50 tons.
However some of the locomotive mfrs. like Porter ,Heisler Pittsburg & even
ALCO ,Lima & Baldwin did catalog & produce some heaver 0-6-0 & a few 0-8-0
tank engines with some weighing 80 to 100 tons
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 20995 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: Re: "Old 1940's Trainset"
In a message dated 9/6/02 12:42:38 AM, busyboy@... writes:

<< Cars are dark red aka maroon. Pre-war cars were green. Chris Zizzo >>

If we are talking prewar heavyweights, they were also done in Tuscan. Some
prewar AF Northern passenger sets also came with sheet metal cars done in
Tuscan.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 20996 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: Re: Some scoop on Lemax's Spooky Town stuff!!
Steve wrote...

***((I stopped at Walmart today and picked up the haunted house - cool. Dr. Tingles laboratory looked pretty neat too. It has lightening & thunder. My wifes says she has a 40% off coupon for Michaels. )))***

Michaels also has (LEMAX) little pumkins, lighted pumkins w/black cat (as seen on the cover of new CTT), little skull lights, and other goodies,....which our Wal-mart didn't have, and may not of even carried the smaller stuff.


Rick.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20997 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: Re: A. F. Christmas Car, LTI, Pt. #48341 "1999"
***(((Wanted Christmas Car. Greenberg Guide, make's no reference to the
Type of car. Maybe! A Box Car? If! Anyone knows where car, can be
found. Please! Provide Information. Please! No reference's to e-bay.
Thank You.))))****


Even the TM price guide just says,...HAPPY HOLIDAYS 8341 green-red-gold/white, 99.
I found all of my Christmas cars on ,....well,...you-know-where, that auction place.


Rick.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20998 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: AF Coach colors.....
Chris Z. wrote...
***(((Cars are dark red aka maroon. Pre-war cars were green)))***.

RB wrote...
***(((If we are talking prewar heavyweights, they were also done in Tuscan. Some
prewar AF Northern passenger sets also came with sheet metal cars done in
Tuscan.)))***

Correct me, please, if I am wrong,....but aren't TUSCAN and MAROON considered the
same color when it comes to AF coaches? And not to be confused with RED!! 8^)


Rick.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 20999 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: TRUCKLOCO
Speaking of an indusrtail railroad there is a rock plant about 15 miles away
from my home....It uses A 2-4 pattern TRUCLOCO
IE: ITS A DIESEL TRUCK...BACK PILLED WITH BLOCKS OF CONCRETE FOR WEIGHT AND
A KNUCKLE COUPLER BOLTED OR WELDED ON TO THE HITCH AREA....
I see it switching quite often as many as 6 to 8 cars filled with rock...It
also has big tires to roll over the rails and switches...

Bob Conner
Group: S-Trains Message: 21000 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: Re: A. F. Christmas Car, LTI, Pt. #48341 "1999"
ITS A BOX CAR...THEY WERE MADE FROM 1990 TO 2002...BOB CONNER
----- Original Message -----
From: "kc6ktj" <jimnvicky@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 7:08 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] A. F. Christmas Car, LTI, Pt. #48341 "1999"


> Wanted Christmas Car. Greenberg Guide, make's no reference to the
> Type of car. Maybe! A Box Car? If! Anyone knows where car, can be
> found. Please! Provide Information. Please! No reference's to e-bay.
> Thank You.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21001 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: Re: A. F. Christmas Car, LTI, Pt. #48341 "1999"
In a message dated 9/6/02 12:39:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
comic@... writes:

<< Even the TM price guide just says,...HAPPY HOLIDAYS 8341 green-red
gold/white, 99 >>

It's under "boxcars". Surely that's clear enough. :-)

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 21002 From: Rhett T. George Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: Repair Questions-2
- Greetings -

I hope Charlie will tell us what sheet stock he wants to simulate
rivets on. My inclination would be brass or steel - no thicker
than 0.002"; copper - 0.003"; aluminum 0.004"; styrene 0.005";
and card stock - 0.006". What say opthers of you?

Cheer`S' Rhett
Group: S-Trains Message: 21003 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: (no subject)
<PRE>One of those years there was a gondola with christmas trees. (98 or 00) can't
remember.Mine is running on the layout in middletown. Let me check some
pictures and I'll get back with everyone. CB
Group: S-Trains Message: 21004 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: (no subject)
It was the 98 car which is the gondola. So if it is listed under boxcars, it
really isn't clear enough.CB go to photos on s-trains under christmas train
or engine. It will be in that album. or try cutting and pasting
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/s-trains/vwp?.dir=/Christmas+Engine&
.src=gr&.dnm=98Christmas+Car.jpg&.view=t&
.done=http%3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/s-trains/lst%3f%26.dir=/Christmas

%2bEngine%26.src=gr%26.view=t
This should take you there
Group: S-Trains Message: 21005 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: Repair Questions -3
Greetings to all!
On the pounce wheel, I was using styrene that was to thick ... kept grinding
it down and had better luck but will have to try much thinner stock. Was
thinking of doing this to put on the bottom of the 651 I am working on, as
parts of the rivet pattern on both sides were broken off. Still need
dimensions for locating the lettering on a 650, really appreciate any help
the "list" can provide. Have tried to scale this from pictures ...
dimensions would help confirm my quesstimations. Best wishes to all!
Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 21006 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: Re: AF Coach colors.....
In a message dated 9/6/02 12:47:52 PM, comic@... writes:

<< Correct me, please, if I am wrong,....but aren't TUSCAN and MAROON
considered the
same color when it comes to AF coaches? And not to be confused with RED!! 8^)


Rick. >>

Postwar AF heavyweights can be green-painted, maroon-painted, red-painted,
bright red-painted, dark green (molded in color Bakelite), or dark red
(molded-in color Bakelite) depending on period and number. See pages 34 - 35
of the TM guide for the variations. Prewar heavyweights came in dark green
and Tuscan (really a medium brown) as described in the catalog. I own a set
of Tuscans. These, of course, were painted. The confusion between "maroon"
and "Tuscan" appears to be the result of some uncertainty in some other
guide. :-)

Hope this helps.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 21007 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: Re: (no subject)
In a message dated 9/6/02 4:13:01 PM, Cbtrainnut1@... writes:

<< One of those years there was a gondola with christmas trees. (98 or 00)
can't
remember. >>

1998. -- No. 48335, under "Gondolas" :-))

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 21008 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, September 8, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page
http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21009 From: keith kuzma Date: 9/6/2002
Subject: 750 bridge house
Does any one have a restorable bridge shack for
sale,or is it available as a repro? Keith

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 21010 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/7/2002
Subject: Re: AF Coach colors.....
RB....
You are correct again!! Don't know what I am thinking!!
Tuscan would be more on the brown side,..much like boxcars , cabooses...etc...
I have the maroon 651, two 655's, and a Pikes Peak 652.
Not even close to brown!! (tuscan) 8^)

Rick.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21011 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/7/2002
Subject: Re: "Old 1940's Trainset"
I have never seen the die-cast heavys in tuscan, only green. I imagine
these are pretty scarce now, especially as the older cars start crumbling.

The stamped steel "American Flyer" cars came in maroon, two greens, brown
and blue as far as I know.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21012 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/7/2002
Subject: Re: America's Railroads on Parade
America's Railroads on Parade
Route 60 East
Williamsburg, VA
Telephone: (804)220-8725
Classification: Model railroad museum
Location: The Village Shops at Kingsmill

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21013 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 9/7/2002
Subject: Re: "Old 1940's Trainset"
In a message dated 9/7/02 8:04:47 AM, busyboy@... writes:

<< I have never seen the die-cast heavys in tuscan, only green. I imagine
these are pretty scarce now, especially as the older cars start crumbling.>>

Green is more common.

<<The stamped steel "American Flyer" cars came in maroon, two greens, brown
and blue as far as I know. >>

Also a red, particularly for 1945-46 postwar 0 gauge.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 21014 From: Paul Date: 9/8/2002
Subject: Photo Gallery and other stuff
With web technologies evolving I am trying to keep up.
I have moved my interactive site http://S-Scale.org to a new larger
server.
It got a bit scrambled in the move, and I am working to fix it up.

I think our new S-Trains photo gallery
http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/gallery/gallery/modelrail , is a better
way of sharing photos than standard web pages ( or Yahoo for that
matter)

If you have uploaded photos to the interactive site, they should now be
in a photo galley. (I copied them over there)

The Gallery offers some big advantages in organization, expansion and
flexibility. I can create a blank album for you and you can upload the
photos and edit the captions. Or you can send me files or prints and I
can do the work.

I have been very busy since the convention. We moved the inlaws down the
state and now the fun begins.
I created a high school reunion website for my wife, and have had lots
to do with that project.

If you can join on the Gallery project please let me know. It is very
similar to the Yahoo files/picture section but with out ads and without
limits. I think it's a great way to promote the hobby, and show folks
that there are many ways to enjoy the hobby.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21015 From: Paul Date: 9/8/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Photo Gallery and other stuff
well in a nutshell...
.. I still have s-trains.com, lots of 'static' pages
I also have s-scale.org, it allows folks to add links and add their own stuff,
kinda like a small yahoo.
and i have also setup up a "photo gallery', it allows folks to have photo
albums, add photos and comments about the photos.
To upload to the photo gallery, one needs me to set up an account and an album.

jha wrote:

> Do not quite understand your setup. ..................
Group: S-Trains Message: 21016 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 9/8/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, September 8, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page
http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21017 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 9/8/2002
Subject: Where were you?
Hay gang,

The Sunday chats have moved. Save the following link:

http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/forum/


Or use the one Paul sends out each week. The new room may take a bit of getting adjusted to, but works better than where we've been. (Or at least better than what that did in the past 12 months)

jfred



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21018 From: crustyfour Date: 9/9/2002
Subject: Russia Iron
I came across this link on another mailing list. It is a detailed
description of the mythical "Russia Iron" used as boiler jacket
material on early locomotives. Russia Iron has a beautiful polished
gray appearance that was far superior to anything else.

http://www.railwayeng.com/dspp/russiron.htm

When I painted my custom Franklin a few months ago, I used "gunmetal"
paint to simulate this finish. It turned out to be pretty accurate.

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 21019 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 9/9/2002
Subject: Re: PHOTO GALLERY
Great idea Paul,
We can add comments under the pictures.
It would be nice if the pictures were labeled
with owner and something about the layouts.
I will be taking new shots of my layout
for the Gallery.

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 13:49:36 -0400
From: Paul <yorke@...>
Subject: Photo Gallery and other stuff

With web technologies evolving I am trying to keep up.
I have moved my interactive site http://S-Scale.org to a new larger
server.
It got a bit scrambled in the move, and I am working to fix it up.

I think our new S-Trains photo gallery
http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/gallery/gallery/modelrail , is a better
way of sharing photos than standard web pages ( or Yahoo for that
matter)

If you have uploaded photos to the interactive site, they should now be
in a photo galley. (I copied them over there)

The Gallery offers some big advantages in organization, expansion and
flexibility. I can create a blank album for you and you can upload the
photos and edit the captions. Or you can send me files or prints and I
can do the work.

I have been very busy since the convention. We moved the inlaws down the
state and now the fun begins.
I created a high school reunion website for my wife, and have had lots
to do with that project.

If you can join on the Gallery project please let me know. It is very
similar to the Yahoo files/picture section but with out ads and without
limits. I think it's a great way to promote the hobby, and show folks
that there are many ways to enjoy the hobby.

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 16:29:32 -0400
From: Paul <yorke@...>
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Photo Gallery and other stuff

well in a nutshell...
.. I still have s-trains.com, lots of 'static' pages
I also have s-scale.org, it allows folks to add links and add their own stuff,
kinda like a small yahoo.
and i have also setup up a "photo gallery', it allows folks to have photo
albums, add photos and comments about the photos.
To upload to the photo gallery, one needs me to set up an account and an album.

jha wrote:

> Do not quite understand your setup. ..................
Group: S-Trains Message: 21020 From: The Reis's Date: 9/9/2002
Subject: Sale of extra stuff
Any SPF's or other Pennsylvania inclined people out there?

I have 3 Pennsy books for sale as a group: Pennsy Power 1, Pennsy Power 2
and the Pennsylvania railroad, a pictorial history by Alexander. All are in
excellent condition with slip covers, email me off list for any details. I
am looking for $120 or offer, I guess for the set. shipped media mail to
USA.


UP buffs:

I have 3 streamline American Models passenger cars Baggage, Sleeper, and
Coach all in near excellent condition. The sleeper is missing 2 windows.
Have original boxes and covers but not paper inserts. $140 for all 3
shipped parcel post to USA


CSX

CSX SOYA SHS 2 bay hopper $32 shipped to USA



Thanks for reading.

Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21021 From: Dayna Warner Date: 9/10/2002
Subject: 1:64 vehicles
I was out on the web doing some updating and ran across this site. Some of you may already be aware of it but just in case you aren't I thought I'd put it out here anyway
http://store.yahoo.com/whitebearstudios/
Dayna Warner CEO
Trainstuff LLC
www.trainstuffllc.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21022 From: TCS Date: 9/10/2002
Subject: yahoo
Yahoo has made a change to everybody's group. Now the list owner must
delete some messages in your group in order to free up some space on the
message board.

So all list owners please check the message board to see how much space
is on the message board. You may need to free up some space.

I also notice that some of the groups I belong to have 500mb to 32mb of
space on the message boards. This don't make any since at all.

Sure wish Yahoo would give some kind of notice to the group owners!!


TCS
Group: S-Trains Message: 21023 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 9/10/2002
Subject: Need UP Observation car
Hi everybody, Looking forward to S-West in Stockton in October.

I am in need of an UP Observation Car. I don't care what manufacturer. It
needs to be a Hi-Rail version. I need it in no less than VG+ condition. I
don't need couplers as I use Kadees. It can be Gilbert post war, Flyonel, AM,
etc.

In another vein, we are going to put out another video this year after all.
It will be ready for Christmas. It will cover the 2002 NASG convention and
tours. It will also have some really informative layout construction tips,
ALA Sam's Hi-Rail layout under construction. The round house and turntable
are up and running along with lots of scratch built buildings. It will be the
same $14 as the others.
We are in a position to make some package deals on them too. We will sell in
3, 4, 5, or 6 video packages. Write me for details if you're interested.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21024 From: trzp1800 Date: 9/11/2002
Subject: What happened to website www.amerflyer.com?
Hi:
Does anyone know what happened to this good reference website. All i
get now is a link to another non-train site.
Thanks,
Ted
Group: S-Trains Message: 21025 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/11/2002
Subject: Re: What happened to website www.amerflyer.com?
TRY IT AGAIN...WORKS FOR ME...BTW ..... I HAVE "
WWW.AMERICANFLYERTRAINS.NET" FOR SALE....!!!
BOB
----- Original Message -----
From: "trzp1800" <trzp1800@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 1:29 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] What happened to website www.amerflyer.com?


> Hi:
> Does anyone know what happened to this good reference website. All i
> get now is a link to another non-train site.
> Thanks,
> Ted
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21026 From: John Foley Date: 9/11/2002
Subject: Timesaver
Hi Folks

Follow this link http://www.precisionlabels.com/shunt/jg3tims0.html
and you can practice switching moves on the Timersaver layout
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 21027 From: jahoozdumm Date: 9/11/2002
Subject: Re: What happened to website www.amerflyer.com?
It doesn't work for me anymore either, and I've had the addy in my
favorites for over a year. Now the addy sends me to something
called "Netster"...


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21028 From: jahoozdumm Date: 9/11/2002
Subject: Re: yahoo
TCS wrote:

>Yahoo has made a change to everybody's group. Now the list owner must
>delete some messages in your group in order to free up some space on
>the message board.

>So all list owners please check the message board to see how much
>space is on the message board. You may need to free up some space.

Well then, golly-gosh, I sure did my part by deleting every one of
those hundreds of images I'd posted on Yahoo last year! Ain't I civic
minded? 8^D

Yahoo probably needs more space for more pop-up ads.

Anyone who's sick of Yahoo may want to conduct their on-line train
activities here:

http://www.railroadforums.com


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21029 From: trzp1800 Date: 9/11/2002
Subject: Re: What happened to website www.amerflyer.com?
--- In S-Trains@y..., "robert allen conner" <rcon7@b...> wrote:
> TRY IT AGAIN...WORKS FOR ME...BTW ..... I HAVE "
> WWW.AMERICANFLYERTRAINS.NET" FOR SALE....!!!
> BOB

I'm still just getting sent to the "Netster" connection,
www.netster.com,. It's like i'm being automatically forwarded to this
netherworld. I'm typing in the amerflyer address manualy and it still
does it. Help! I need a few of those pictures on the site.

ted
Group: S-Trains Message: 21030 From: pushpinss Date: 9/11/2002
Subject: Re: What happened to website www.amerflyer.com?
You can find pictures of AF stuff at www.rfgco.com/galleries/ and
www.rfgco.com/history/


--- In S-Trains@y..., "trzp1800" <trzp1800@i...> wrote:
> --- In S-Trains@y..., "robert allen conner" <rcon7@b...> wrote:
> > TRY IT AGAIN...WORKS FOR ME...BTW ..... I HAVE "
> > WWW.AMERICANFLYERTRAINS.NET" FOR SALE....!!!
> > BOB
>
> I'm still just getting sent to the "Netster" connection,
> www.netster.com,. It's like i'm being automatically forwarded to
this
> netherworld. I'm typing in the amerflyer address manualy and it
still
> does it. Help! I need a few of those pictures on the site.
>
> ted
Group: S-Trains Message: 21031 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 9/11/2002
Subject: OGR site AF topics.
Here are four new American Flyer discussions on the OGR site that are
interesting.
It is a neat site with lots of information that can be used in other gauges
too including TMCC topics.

http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=63160042&f=57660482&m=5916011411

http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=63160042&f=57660482&m=3046008411

http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=63160042&f=57660482&m=9846008411

http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=63160042&f=57660482&m=4736008411


Check them out and join in the discussions. It is surprising how many "O"
people are closet flyer people too.
This seems to be a new phenomenon there. Join the forum and help spread the
word about "S".
They may start a separate forum topic just for flyer is there is enough
response????


Carl
Group: S-Trains Message: 21032 From: hgetrain Date: 9/11/2002
Subject: Re: OGR site AF topics.
I agree that this is truly an interesting site for anyone interested
in model trains. There seem to be several members who have an
interest in S gauge and the number of S gauge discussions are
increasing. I know that Lionel, MTH and other O gauge manufacturers
monitor these discussions and the more S gauge is discussed the more
favorably they look at our market. I second Carl's suggestion that S
gaugers join this forum and participate in the discussions. Our
participation may help bring the S gauge admirers out of the closet.
I joined several months ago.

Harry Eberhardt



--- In S-Trains@y..., Carl Tuveson <carl@w...> wrote:
> Here are four new American Flyer discussions on the OGR site that
are
> interesting.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21033 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 9/11/2002
Subject: 751 Log Loader
Greetings to all! My notes almost worked this time but have one wire I
can't account for. The black wire from the solenoid connects to ...?
My thanks for any help the "group" can provide. Best Wishes, Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 21034 From: John M McAlonan Date: 9/12/2002
Subject: Re: New Thread
Last night while browsing the newsgroup, I followed this link to a new
site. http://www.steamlocomotive.info/index.cfm
I then followed the browse link to "By manufacturer", next to "Baldwin"
(Grandad worked there for a spell), then, and this was the fun part,
scrolled the list looking for little green video buttons and then
watched about 10 video clips. This is a great site and I've only begun
to scratch the surface.
Mac
Group: S-Trains Message: 21035 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 9/12/2002
Subject: Blue Angel Smoke Shop
To all:
I received my "Lou's Tattoo" from Bob Werre a few days ago. It
looks great!

Many thanks to all that helped me purchase one of these fine models.

Thorin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21036 From: Mark Preman Date: 9/12/2002
Subject: Reproducer Reproduction Production
There seems to be some confusion among the new folks
as to what this is. It is the floating speaker/needle
assembly for the Gilbert built record playing talking
stations. It is typically missing from many of the old
stations. (Mom always said, "if it's on the floor, it
goes in the trash".)

As many of you will remember, I have been trying for
about three years to build one that sounds like the
original and doesn't cost more to build than the value
of the entire station.

We are in production right now and hope to have units
for delivery by the end of the month. I will let
everyone know when they are ready. Mark

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News - Today's headlines
http://news.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 21037 From: David Date: 9/12/2002
Subject: Re: Reproducer Reproduction Production
Good luck Mark, that is a sorely needed part for sure. I came across
2 of them years ago in Orlando for a few bucks apeice. I sold one
much to my dismay years later, but kept one for my stash. I found a
nice boxed 799 last spring missing the reproducer. I got it for a
really great price because that was missing. Then I was left without.
Looking to replace my stock I started searching. A few showed on E-
Bay and went for rediculous prices over $50. Recently at a local flea
market while hunting for goodies, I approached an old fellow with
some glass cases. My heart skipped a beat when I see a reproducer in
one of his cases. I say, hey whats that thingy? He said its to an old
phonograph and attaches to the arm thing somehow to play the record.
I said how much. He said $8 bucks. SOLD.......
Group: S-Trains Message: 21038 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 9/12/2002
Subject: Re: More Good News
Hi Everone,

I may not have sent to all, so sending again.

This address below in "Our S Friend" then "SteveJay Trains" section.

I have added captons and pictures of a 2-8-0 AF chassis I made from AF
Atlantics with parts pictures. It's still in the early stages but-----,
AND you can respond, Q's and Comts,
directly to each picture when thumb nail is opened. I'll respond in open
comments or directly if your leave address. It's fun and easy,---- I'll
be updating some pictures soon as the models are nearer to finish.
HSJ-NASG

On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 20:13:12 -0400 Paul <yorke@...> writes:
> I have setup a photo album that we can use to post and share our
> photos.
>
> You can upload them directly, or if they are out there somewhere on
> the
> web they can be transfered.
> If you want to take a preliminary peak at the album, go to
> http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/gallery/gallery/modelrail
>
> I have transfered some of my Convention picture over there. Nothing
> you
> have not already seen.
>
> If you would like to put some (S related) pictures in an album,
> please
> let me know, so I can set up an album and account for you.
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21039 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 9/13/2002
Subject: Re: A. F. Christmas Car, LTI, Pt. #48341 "1999"
> Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 23:08:18 -0000
> From: "kc6ktj" <jimnvicky@...>
> Subject: A. F. Christmas Car, LTI, Pt. #48341 "1999"
>
> Wanted Christmas Car. Greenberg Guide, make's no reference to the
> Type of car. Maybe! A Box Car? If! Anyone knows where car, can be
> found. Please! Provide Information. Please! No reference's to e-bay.
> Thank You.

Dear Kc6ktj:
Here is a list of the Christmas cars released to date. Most of
these are box cars and those that are not are listed. (The 2002 car has
announced but not released.)

Lionel: 6-48309, Christmas Car 1990
Lionel: 6-48311, Christmas Car 1991
Lionel: 6-48314, Christmas Car 1992
Lionel: 6-48319, Christmas Car 1993
Lionel: 6-48321, Christmas Car 1994
Lionel: 6-48016, Christmas 1995 (GP-20)
Lionel: 6-48717, Christmas 1995 (Bay window Caboose)
Lionel: 6-48343, Christmas Car 1995
Lionel: 6-48325, Christmas Car 1996
Lionel: 6-48327, Christmas Car 1997
Lionel: 6-48335, Christmas 1998, (Gondola with trees)
Lionel: 6-48341, Christmas Car 1999, (900)
Lionel: 6-48340, Christmas Car 2000, (2000)
Lionel: 6-48342, Christmas Car 2001

I walked into a hobby shop in early 1993 and saw the 1990, 1991 and 1992
cars in the reduced rack. I have been kicking myself for not purchasing
them ever since. (Would have made a nice train.)

Thorin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21040 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 9/13/2002
Subject: Re: A. F. Christmas Car, LTI, Pt. #48341 "1999"
In case you, or anyone else, is interested, someone has many of these recently listed
on ebay.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


"Marty.Thorin" wrote:

> > Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 23:08:18 -0000
> > From: "kc6ktj" <jimnvicky@...>
> > Subject: A. F. Christmas Car, LTI, Pt. #48341 "1999"
> >
> > Wanted Christmas Car. Greenberg Guide, make's no reference to the
> > Type of car. Maybe! A Box Car? If! Anyone knows where car, can be
> > found. Please! Provide Information. Please! No reference's to e-bay.
> > Thank You.
>
> Dear Kc6ktj:
> Here is a list of the Christmas cars released to date. Most of
> these are box cars and those that are not are listed. (The 2002 car has
> announced but not released.)
>
> Lionel: 6-48309, Christmas Car 1990
> Lionel: 6-48311, Christmas Car 1991
> Lionel: 6-48314, Christmas Car 1992
> Lionel: 6-48319, Christmas Car 1993
> Lionel: 6-48321, Christmas Car 1994
> Lionel: 6-48016, Christmas 1995 (GP-20)
> Lionel: 6-48717, Christmas 1995 (Bay window Caboose)
> Lionel: 6-48343, Christmas Car 1995
> Lionel: 6-48325, Christmas Car 1996
> Lionel: 6-48327, Christmas Car 1997
> Lionel: 6-48335, Christmas 1998, (Gondola with trees)
> Lionel: 6-48341, Christmas Car 1999, (900)
> Lionel: 6-48340, Christmas Car 2000, (2000)
> Lionel: 6-48342, Christmas Car 2001
>
> I walked into a hobby shop in early 1993 and saw the 1990, 1991 and 1992
> cars in the reduced rack. I have been kicking myself for not purchasing
> them ever since. (Would have made a nice train.)
>
> Thorin
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21041 From: Ted Walton Date: 9/13/2002
Subject: Reproducer Reproduction Production
Mark

Any chance your Reproducer could be made to work in Nomatown talking station.

Ted Walton

>There seems to be some confusion among the new folks
>as to what this is. It is the floating speaker/needle
>assembly for the Gilbert built record playing talking
>stations.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21042 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 9/13/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, September 15, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page
http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21043 From: Jim C Date: 9/13/2002
Subject: Re: 1:64 vehicles
Here is another site that may be of interest. I just got my electric bill,
and there is an offer to purchase a 1:64 bucket truck painted in the local
power company's colors. Truck is made by DG Productions. Website is

http://www.toysbydg.com/setup.asp

There are 19 different power companies offered. These are limited time
offers - most need to be ordered by Sept 30 or Oct 31st.

The web site offers the following description:
"This 1:64 scale die cast bucket truck is a replica of a Terex 55' lift
mounted on an International 4400 cab and chassis. The truck features working
outriggers that can be extended, detailed cab interior and chassis, and a
boom that elevates to 11 inches."

Jim


-----Original Message-----
From: Dayna Warner [mailto:artherwarner@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 7:13 AM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com; S-Scale@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] 1:64 vehicles


I was out on the web doing some updating and ran across this site. Some of
you may already be aware of it but just in case you aren't I thought I'd put
it out here anyway
http://store.yahoo.com/whitebearstudios/
Dayna Warner CEO
Trainstuff LLC
www.trainstuffllc.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21044 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 9/13/2002
Subject: Noma Talking Station
Ted: if the repro AF reproducer is like the original, that is, mostly
metal construction, it would not work in the Noma station. The Noma
reproducer is very light weight, mostly a cardboard tube and speaker paper
front.

If the repro is like the late AF version, plastic with a speaker paper
front, it might work. However, the needle in the Noma reproducer comes out
the back of the reproducer, and the AF reproducer needle comes out the
side.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21045 From: jetjok212@aol.com Date: 9/13/2002
Subject: address change
Pleasse change my e-mail address for the S trains digest.

My new address is jetjok72@...........thanks.....Ed Rosenberger
Group: S-Trains Message: 21046 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 9/14/2002
Subject: Re: Reproducer Reproduction Production
So who is the reproducer of the reproduction reproducer and how many
reproduction reproducers could be produced if the reproducer of the
reproduction reproducer produced reproducers? :-)

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 21047 From: Paul Date: 9/14/2002
Subject: Gallery Help Pages
Looks like lots of you are enjoying the photo gallerys.
We have had hundreds of visits in the short time it has been out there.

If you think you might want to 'get involved', I have put some help
at ...
http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/gallery/gallery/Photo-Gallery-HELP!

Let me know if you want me to set you up with an album and a login.

If instead you choose to just enjoy the photos, please be my guest.

http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/gallery/gallery/modelrail
Group: S-Trains Message: 21048 From: aglorince Date: 9/14/2002
Subject: train show pittsburgh, pa
train show sep 15. 10am-3pm
shearaton four corners pittsburgh north (sometimes refered to as
mars or warendale).us route 19 south of turnpike exit 3.

i will be there with american models products.

andy lorince
Group: S-Trains Message: 21049 From: Don Thompson Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: Re: Photo of Christmas Car and PS-2s for 2002
I posted photos (by Bob Werre) of our 2002 Christmas Car and the
rest of the New PS-2s for 2002. They will be leaving the factory later
this week with the composite hopper. We will also have coal loads for
the composite hoppers (these will also fit the River Raisin USRA and
Panel side two bay hoppers) from Blue Mountain. They have real coal on
a foam mandrel (not top heavy).
Don
PS Attention Bill Fraley, yes it is a Reading 3 bay PS-2 with a close up
of the "Buy US Savings Bonds" log.

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/showcaseline/lst

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 21050 From: richard Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: final proof
Well...just in case you only thought I was half mad...heres proof Im a
totally comitted nut!!.

Just had one of "those" thoughts ...and It sorta got me thinking.

We might be coming at the S as a minority scale eternal dilemma....from
totally the wrong direction....or top put it another way...maybe the best
defence is...an attack...!!!

Now lets see...where does everything ( or seems like it ) come from these
days!!... 10 secs !!tic toc tic toc...ah yes my inscrutable friends...the
land of the long wall!! Harry Who would be proud of you !!

Now here we have a speeedily and hungrily developing economy.....and in
their fervour to be all good things capitalistic......they are adopting many
of the traits of our western lifestyles...now why shouldmt that include our
hobbies...and why not specifically model railroading...especially in the
last place on earth to make 'S'team Locomotives!!!.

Now in a classic coals to Newcastle ( fridges to Alaska!! ) move...why not
some enterprising model company...and better it be in S ( lets steal the
march on these other scales )...develop a "train set"...based on a ...yep!!
a chinese prototype ( now maybe it just happen sto be the one that some
Eastern Rail group I think have...someone will no doubt know what Im
referring to...some chinese 2-8-0 running on a tourist road in your United
states..so theres the loco...someone probably already has track
developed...and trucks...tool for one chinese style pass car..and blind
freddy's uncle Bob will tell you...you re off and running...make em in
china..sellem in china...and get a new market for S products to boot...and
there's a bloody lot of chinese....lol...sure not a developed economy...but
tis the fastest one in the world at present!!..we think of a small
percentile of US figures ...now lets see...if only 1/1000th of 1% of
chinese could be swayed to buy a trainset...S of course..well the
math...umm..umm...thats 10,000 people..

sure...its the nuttiest idea of mine to date!!!...but why nt some some
wonderful western expertise in trainsets put to use !! Car companies know
it...the Banks know it..the technology gurus know it...why not use it !!
And even the dictatorial regimes of the Imperial land...cant object to a
trainset....!! nothing overtly subversive I wouldnt have thought!!!

Lets go GLOBAL guys !!!the world i's' our OY'S'TER !!!! lol

have to go...need those pills!!! lol

>:~))
Richard
( room 4 Sunnyhill Respice and Resort)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21051 From: Don Thompson Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: Re: Photo of Christmas Car and PS-2s for 2002
Sorry, I thought all groups could share the Yahoo photos, for the S
Train list go to:

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/lst

Don
PS Thanks Sam!

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 21052 From: Dayna Warner Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: painting question
I know this is not a scale or prototype related question. I was at an Antique fair yesterday where I happened to purchase a beautifully detailed cast iron fire plate. Anyone have any suggestions on what type of paint I can use to paint it? It has a steam locomotive coming down a mountain and through some trees. I don't need to worry about the paint being fireproof. I just want to paint the scene rather than leaving it all black. I want to put it into a non working fireplace and put a light on it.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Dayna Warner CEO
Trainstuff LLC
www.trainstuffllc.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21053 From: Paul Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: Adding Photo Comments
I have got some positive feedback about the Photo gallery.
One thing people would like to know is "Who's layout?"
Well maybe you can help me on this one.

If you see a picture of your layout or a layout that you recognize,
please feel free to add a comment.

To add a comment, you don't need a login or password. When you open an
image a small '[add a comment]' link will apear at the bottem of the
page.

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/gallery/gallery/modelrail
Group: S-Trains Message: 21054 From: Steve Blancard Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: Fixing the "Buzz"
I was looking at Paul's FAQs and read the page about fixing the buzz in
a 977 caboose by using a bridge rectifier, here's think link to it:

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/projects/flagman.htm

I'm rehabing a 596 water tank and was wondering if the same thing could
be used on the water tank solenoid to quiet the buzz.

Whaaddya think ??

Thanks,
Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 21055 From: Tom Rolfsmeyer Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: Going to York
Well it is offical I will get to go to Yorke PA this year for the first
time. I would like to meet a few of the people that frequent this list
while I am there. We will be arriving on Tuesday afternoon and leaving
Saturday. So if you will be at the TCA meet or other locations near by
please give me a time we might get together.

Thanks

Tom Rolfsmeyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 21056 From: Paul Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: Who owns this site?
Who site is http://myweb.ecomplanet.com/WIGH7707/default.htm ?
Please contact me off list.

Paul
Group: S-Trains Message: 21057 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, September 15, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page
http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21058 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: 751 log loader
Greetings to all ... need the groups help again ... the location of the
decal on the platform base. Thanks in advance for your help!
Best wishes to all, Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 21059 From: David Dewey Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: Re: painting question
Dayna,
Actually, the paint you use sorta depends on the primer! You could
spray can paint some ruetproofing primer on the plate, then paint it with
modelling paints, and clearcoat it to protect the colors. I would, however,
suggest instead of RR model paints to use good old "Testor's Enamel" or even
something like Rust-O-Leum paint colors. I suggest Testors, as it comes in
small bottles, and you aren't going to need large quantities of paints.
Post a Pic for us when you're done!
S'
David D.
PS, a Clearcoat would also help preserve the Testors, etc. but be sure it is
compatible with them!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21060 From: David Dewey Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: Re: Fixing the "Buzz"
Steve,
Yep! Easier too, as there's LOTS of room in the tank! Now to come up
with a little sound chip and speaker to make flowing water sounds when the
spout is down!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21061 From: Chuck Smith Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: Re: Fixing the "Buzz"
Should work same principle.

Steve Blancard wrote:
>
> I was looking at Paul's FAQs and read the page about fixing the buzz in
> a 977 caboose by using a bridge rectifier, here's think link to it:
>
> http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/projects/flagman.htm
>
> I'm rehabing a 596 water tank and was wondering if the same thing could
> be used on the water tank solenoid to quiet the buzz.
>
> Whaaddya think ??
>
> Thanks,
> Steve Blancard
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21062 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: Water Tank
> Now to come up with a little sound chip and speaker to make flowing water sounds when the spout is down!
S'
David D.<

I thought Tom J. had done that.

jfred



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News - Today's headlines

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21063 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 9/15/2002
Subject: Re: Going to York
Tom,

May I suggest that the Gilbert Get Together held Thursday Evening at
York is a great place to meet the Flyer folks. It is usually held at the
Four Seasons Hotel at around 9 pm or so...

Tom Rolfsmeyer wrote:

>Well it is offical I will get to go to Yorke PA this year for the first
>time. I would like to meet a few of the people that frequent this list
>while I am there. We will be arriving on Tuesday afternoon and leaving
>Saturday. So if you will be at the TCA meet or other locations near by
>please give me a time we might get together.
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21064 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/16/2002
Subject: Yahooooooooo!
Don:
That address you gave did not work. I navigated to the page and copied out
the actual address. It's a Yahoo Doozy!

Chris Zizzo

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/s-trains/lst?.dir=/2002+PS-2s&.src=gr&.
order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/s-trains/lst%3f%
26.dir=/%26.src=gr%26.view=t
Group: S-Trains Message: 21065 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/16/2002
Subject: Re: YORK MOTELS
Last night I messed around the computer for motels within 50 miles of York
for the 16, 17, 18, oct.....Everything said SOLD OUT near York...Except the
BILLY BUD....I called 1-800 holiday..They said there was A few rooms
open...My reservation confirmation Number came this morning and at A 75.65
rate....Check quick...you might catch another...tell them the rate you found
on the computer was from ORBITZ....Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 21066 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 9/16/2002
Subject: Idaho Show
The Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers' layout, "Lookout Junction," will be the featured attraction at the first-ever "Idaho Rails Train Show" to be held in Weiser, Idaho, 10 am-6 pm on Saturday, September 28. Location is the Vendome Convention Center in downtown Weiser (Exit 3 off I-84, 15 miles north on Highway 95). Admission is free. Join us if you can as we make our first foray to show the S colors outside Boise. (What are the S colors, anyway--ACG blue and yellow? ACG red, white, and black? SHS green and yellow? Flyonel red and white? Sorry, but I don't recall AM's colors.)

YourS,
John Eichmann, Coordinator
Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers
Boise
Group: S-Trains Message: 21067 From: Bill Lane Date: 9/16/2002
Subject: Pennsy S Models Update
Hi Everyone,

I have not posted an update on the Pennsy S Models X-29 project in a while.
I just received brass master patterns to 5 new parts we needed on Saturday.
Yes, there will be American (and Canadian) made parts on our car. This will
be the final round of parts needed to get production started. We were not
happy with our builder's attempt at some of the parts, so we had them made
ourselves.

Our website www.pennsysmodels.com was updated just before the NASG
convention in July. Please give it a look if you have not done so.

We will be attending the Central Jersey S Scalers Fall Get Together this
weekend in South Amboy NJ. Stop by and see us if you are going.

Thanks
Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 21068 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/16/2002
Subject: YORK....UPDATE
This will be my first time back there in 12 years....guess A lot has
changed...Do they still have the Billy Bud meet?....What about the others?
Behind the mall there was one... My reservation is for the Billy bud
motel....wed ...thur...fri...night...Can you still set things in your room
window to sell? I have about 3 or 4 farm sets (5001T) to sell...3 with fair
to good plus boxes...no cutouts....Whats the best motel or parking lot meets
to go too? whats now the price at the Good and Plenty over at Strasburg
Area?...If I get there by say 9:00 am wed...any meets?....Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 21069 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 9/16/2002
Subject: Re: YORK....UPDATE
Bob,
The then Mgr of the Billy Budd ruined that meet several yrs ago when she
walked two armed township cops thru the motel, pointing out anyone selling
trains so the cops could collect a Twp tax aimed at the Train Collectors.
Almost no one there in the spring. Understand the Mgr is now gone also, the
cops will be there tho. for their money. Has to be the reason you got rooms
this late.
Wenesday the big meet is at the Holidome (former Sheraton) on Rt 74 North
of Rt 30. Also one at the Best Western in an adjacent motel lot.
And don't forget NTTM on Thursday in Strasburg.
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21070 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 9/16/2002
Subject: Re: YORK....UPDATE
To those who will be attending. Ron Borsella has asked me to extend an
invitation to any of you who may be coming to York. He has just opened his
new store," Toy Trains Unlimited", in Hanover, PA, which is about 30 minutes
west of York. Open house will be on Thurs., Oct. 16, with sandwiches, sodas,
coffee, etc. starting at 4:00pm. Address is; 28 York St, Hanover, PA 17331.
Phone at shop is, 1-717-637-4717. If you need directions please email Ron at,
"ronb@..." or call him at
1-717-235-6943. Jim Patterson and Jack Fazenbacker will also be there if you
have never met them. I think Bob Tufts will be coming also along with some
other collectors of note. Hope to see and meet you all there.
Harwood Owings
Group: S-Trains Message: 21071 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: The Life of the Hobby
For those of us who concern ourselves with the promulgation of the toy train
hobby to successive generations of youth, I have something which you will
undoubtedly find to be both interesting and, possibly, disheartening.

From PC World.com, this article appears. (This is only a few lines long, my
comments follow):

"What's the Value of Old Software?
Seller hopes to make big bucks on a single online auction of seriously
outdated applications."

"Beginning September 7, (Eli) Tomlinson is offering some 250,000 software
titles--more than half of them released before 1990--in a single EBay
auction. Tomlinson . . . acquired the software over the past 20 years in
his roles as a computer programmer, software publisher-importer, owner of a
close-out software business, and computer hobbyist.

Nearly 80 percent of the 250,000-piece collection consists of gaming titles
. . . Over 60 percent of the collection has never been used and is in its
original packaging, or as they say on EBay, MIB (Mint In Box). (HOLY
COW!!! -- c.z.)

The personal computer revolution began in the mid-1970s--a time now distant
enough for early programs to arouse interest today as baby-boomer nostalgia.

In addition, first runs of popular game titles in the late 1970s and early
1980s typically consisted of only 2500 to 5000 copies, even from major
publishers, according to Tomlinson. The result: Vintage gaming software,
particularly titles still in their original box, is "remarkably rare"
compared to other collectibles, such as baseball cards.

"Interest in collectible software is growing," Tomlinson asserts. As
evidence, he cites some of his own recent vintage software auctions on EBay:
Leisure Suit Larry sold for $122.50; Zork 1 went for $71; and Welltris was
snatched up for $62.50.

Not surprisingly, interest in vintage computers appears to be rising as
well. Last fall, for instance, an Altair 8800, one of the most sought-after
collectible computers, sold on EBay for $1967 and change. The computer's
original price in 1975: about $500."
______________________________________________________________________

It would seem that collecting is still a viable hobby, at least. If you
would like to read the whole article, go to:
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,104772,tk,cx091002a,00.asp .
The sellers homepage, where even more details abound, can be found at:
http://www.swrweb.com/ .

It is significant to note that people who are 40 now were 13 in 1975, the
year all of this stuff started. The appearance of computer games would have
been incredibly fascinating to youngsters who were not being imprinted (as
we were) by train catalogs. As the computer grown generation starts to age,
they will start to dump their disposable income into the recreation of the
greatest moments of their own youth. It may seem like a ridiculous dead end
to us, but they will love it and cherish it, as we do trains. The person
buying this monster software collection will spur this market and kick it
into high gear.

God save us all.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21072 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: Re: The Life of the Hobby
Oh, by the way, the e-Bay address for this auction is:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1379598219

With only 7 hours, 19 mins to go as of this posting, there have been no
bidders, but then, that opening bid is a doozy: First bid US $250,000.00.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21073 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: Attach gear to small shaft
Greetings:
I am rewheeling my steeplecabs. The mechanisms are Athearn. The
wheels and axles are ACE. The Athearn axles fit tightly into the Athearn
gears. But the ACE axles are a tiny bit smaller. Does anyone have any
suggestions on how to make the ACE axles a tiny bit larger?

There are two obvious answers, neither of which I can use:
1. Glue the gear to the axle. This would remove the ability to regauge
the wheels Also the gear is Delrin and the axle is steel.
2. Use a lathe and knurl this section of the axles. I can't as I only
have a Dremel and hand tools. Lots of hand tools.

I am thinking that a thin, thin layer of crazy glue on the axles might
increase the size enough. I tried epoxy and it didn't have enough 'bite'
and promptly popped off. I would prefer a mechanical method to increase the
axle size here.

Thorin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21074 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: Re: The Life of the Hobby
In a message dated 9/17/02 8:45:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
busyboy@... writes:


> It is significant to note that people who are 40 now were 13 in 1975, the
> year all of this stuff started.

Hi CZ,
It is interesting that people would collect old computers. It seems anything
you buy today is disposable, I mean collectible. People are probably
collecting disposable BIC lighters too.
Me, I'll keep playing with the trains. I collect them to run them though.
I graduated in 1975, I'm 45 and still love the trains. My senior yr in High
school, we had to do a demonstration speech. I did mine on my 336 and
American Flyer trains. Got an A+ on that speech.
Kids may not play with s-gauge today, but I still see them playing with
trains. CB


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21075 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: Re: The Life of the Hobby
In a message dated 9/17/02 11:10:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Cbtrainnut1@... writes:

<< Kids may not play with S gauge today, but I still see them playing with
trains. CB >>

Well, we sold a 283 to a 14 year old at our last local train show. I am also
noticing that ~30 year olds are starting to collect AF. They represent
roughly 10% of the traffic, and they might not always buy a lot yet, but they
are out there in the marketplace. There was a time when I thought that
Standard gauge would hit the market by the ton and lower the prices. Guess,
what? It hasn't happened. A younger crowd is now collecting prewar and
sustaining prices. I believe (actually, I know) that Chris is being too
pessimistic.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 21076 From: David Dewey Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: Re: The Life of the Hobby
Chris,
Does this mean that my old TI99A might be worth something??? I still
have it in the original box, with all the manuals!! ALRIGHT!! My
pack-ratting might finally pay off!!
Gee, and there's my old Lobo (RS Model 4 clone) with the external 360K
5-1/4" disk drives. . . . And how about my 386. . . . .
S'
More money for trains!!!!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21077 From: Yaakov Kirschen Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: #600 Crossing Gate wiring
I've got a 600 crossing gate and cannot find a wiring diagram
anyplace.
Help!
There are three places to attach wires (directly under the bell).
What wires go where?
and what kind of Trip do I need?

and I THINK I saw something somewhere about isolating a track section and then using it like
an electrical switch?...

Thanx
Yak
Group: S-Trains Message: 21078 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: Re: The Life of the Hobby
David:
You said:
>Does this mean that my old TI99A might be worth something???
I suggest you click here:
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,76424,00.asp
and learn just how much it's worth.

I'm gonna dump all my old boxes for train money too. Gee. Who woulda thunk
it?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21079 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: S Groups
Hi Gang, I have three (3) AF Alco Link & Pin type side frames for
sale. If anyone is interested contact me off list. $11.00 a piece +
shipping.
Ken

+



+

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21080 From: David Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: Re: The Life of the Hobby
There's value there eh? I just moved and have two large boxes of old
computer stuff I'm just getting ready to sort through. I'll have to
set aside all my old Leisure Suit Larry games and PitFall etc. Wonder
if Word 1.0 is bringing bucks, or maybe DOS 2.0 in the gray hardboard
box? Possibly early versions of COBOL might fetch a few smackers too.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21081 From: Mark Preman Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: Blatant AD - Sets
For some time now, I have had several inexpensive
original Gilbert sets on the website. They are in
their original boxes and under $180. I have always
offerred to make up sets from existing inventory and
if you use the least expensive stuff, you can put a
train (not PM)under the tree for under $100. (Subject
to what is in inventory at the time). Just my 2
cents. Mark


=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News - Today's headlines
http://news.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 21082 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: Open House @ York
Made a mistake on the day of the week on Ron Borsell's open house at his new
store. It is Wed. the 16th , Not Thurs. the 16th.
Harwood
Group: S-Trains Message: 21083 From: pushpinss Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: new group
I found a new group over at AOL that is dedicated to American Flyer S
and HO. So for any one not into scale and like that, you might want
to try it.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21084 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 9/17/2002
Subject: Re: YORK MOTELS
Yes, I made a similar reservation online on Tuesday at the Holiday Inn
Web site, and called the hotel tonight and confirmed the room type. The
clerk said he could not understand how I could have made reservations
today (Tuesday) for that week, because Thursday, Friday and Saturday had
been sold out for some time. He then confirmed that I did have a
reservation though. I find it a little "too good to be true". I hope
they are not booking the same rooms multiple time do to some computer
glitch or something! I am planning on keeping my reservation at
Harrisburg until I successfully check in to the Billy Bud on the 13th.
It isn't Friday, so perhaps I will be OK...

robert allen conner wrote:

>Last night I messed around the computer for motels within 50 miles of York
>for the 16, 17, 18, oct.....Everything said SOLD OUT near York...Except the
>BILLY BUD....I called 1-800 holiday..They said there was A few rooms
>open...My reservation confirmation Number came this morning and at A 75.65
>rate....Check quick...you might catch another...tell them the rate you found
>on the computer was from ORBITZ....Bob
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21085 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/18/2002
Subject: Re: new group
You said:
>I found a new group over at AOL that is dedicated to American Flyer S
>and HO. So for any one not into scale and like that, you might want
>to try it.

And how would we go about finding this group?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21086 From: Roy Hoffman Date: 9/18/2002
Subject: Re: The Life of the Hobby
David,

I just retired in June after 34 years of programming. I started on an
RCA 301. Now with all this talk, I may just stage a comeback!

Roy


--- In S-Trains@y..., "David Dewey" <djdewey@c...> wrote:
> Chris,
> Does this mean that my old TI99A might be worth something??? I
still
> have it in the original box, with all the manuals!! ALRIGHT!! My
> pack-ratting might finally pay off!!
> Gee, and there's my old Lobo (RS Model 4 clone) with the external
360K
> 5-1/4" disk drives. . . . And how about my 386. . . . .
> S'
> More money for trains!!!!
> S'
> David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21087 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/18/2002
Subject: Re: new group
You said:
http://groups.aol.com/rfgamericanflyer

Thank you. This is the group run by Ron Giardina (R.F.Giardina Company).
Ron markets S gauge products and manufactures American Flyer replacement
parts as well as rebuilding and rewinding Gilbert motors. Ron is also a
member of this list.

I have not visited this group. Is it active? Are there other names than
the ones you already see here?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21088 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/18/2002
Subject: Re: YORK MOTELS
Chuck....I called this morning and spoke with them...directly with the
motel....717 845 5671 and I do have A confirmed reservation I asked if I
could check in early and they said they would try...I also mentioned that it
was a long drive from Florida and I also mentioned that years ago I had a
reservation but when I got there they couldn't find it....at that time they
got on the phone and got me another room within a couple of miles....wait a
couple days and call them to check too.... Ie: I tried to ask questions all
around the subject of "have you messed up?"...like you said "too good to be
true"...But it looks as if we lucked up....I also confirmed the 75.00
rate..the lady also told me they still have a meet out back..Think I will
call again about a week from now too....When I used to go there in the 80's
and early 90's....several times I would call as late as two days
before...ask for a real nice lady named Betty....told her I had no place to
stay....She would always say come on in...we will take care of you even
though we are sold out....she would find me a room....Those were the
days.......Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Harrington" <myflyertrains@...>
Cc: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 12:47 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] YORK MOTELS


> Yes, I made a similar reservation online on Tuesday at the Holiday Inn
> Web site, and called the hotel tonight and confirmed the room type. The
> clerk said he could not understand how I could have made reservations
> today (Tuesday) for that week, because Thursday, Friday and Saturday had
> been sold out for some time. He then confirmed that I did have a
> reservation though. I find it a little "too good to be true". I hope
> they are not booking the same rooms multiple time do to some computer
> glitch or something! I am planning on keeping my reservation at
> Harrisburg until I successfully check in to the Billy Bud on the 13th.
> It isn't Friday, so perhaps I will be OK...
>
> robert allen conner wrote:
>
> >Last night I messed around the computer for motels within 50 miles of
York
> >for the 16, 17, 18, oct.....Everything said SOLD OUT near York...Except
the
> >BILLY BUD....I called 1-800 holiday..They said there was A few rooms
> >open...My reservation confirmation Number came this morning and at A
75.65
> >rate....Check quick...you might catch another...tell them the rate you
found
> >on the computer was from ORBITZ....Bob
> >
> >
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21089 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 9/18/2002
Subject: Re: new group
I received a message at the beginning of the month from RFG inviting me to join the
group. The invitation was good only for 60 days. After that, you would have to wait
until receiving another invitation before you could join the group. Don't know if
anyone can join or you have to be invited.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


Chris Zizzo wrote:

> You said:
> http://groups.aol.com/rfgamericanflyer
>
> Thank you. This is the group run by Ron Giardina (R.F.Giardina Company).
> Ron markets S gauge products and manufactures American Flyer replacement
> parts as well as rebuilding and rewinding Gilbert motors. Ron is also a
> member of this list.
>
> I have not visited this group. Is it active? Are there other names than
> the ones you already see here?
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21090 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/18/2002
Subject: Re: new group
I clicked on the "Join this group" button and here's what came up:

Join "RFG's AMERICAN FLYER TRAINS"

This is an open Group. Type your e-mail address below, and click Send. You
will receive an invitation to subscribe to this Group's message list.

Once you subscribe, you can:

Receive Group e-mail.
Participate in e-mail discussions.
Upgrade to member status.

Sounds to me like you can join at anytime.


Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21091 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 9/18/2002
Subject: Attach gear to small shaft: RESOLVED!
To all:
I have been amazed! I posted this two days ago and have received so
many e-mails and suggestions that I can't respond to everyone individually!
I am truly impressed! Many, many thanks!

The solution that was used was to gently nip the axles with a good pair of
wire cutters. So I 'roughen up' then ends of the ACE half-axles where they
extend into the Athearn gears. It worked so good that when I was done I
rechecked the others and found one to fix
Re-wheeling two steeplecabs each with two trucks with four wheels
each. This is 16 wheels and half axles. Of these, only 3 were sloppy loose
and two more were semi-loose. All are now tight.

Several people suggested glue but avoiding glue was the original objective.

Dick Karnes suggested I just slide out the original Athearn half axles,
regauge to S, and secure with a drop of glue. This would normally work and
is the Scale suggestion that comes with the Hoquat shell. But I am highrail
with 'S'mile and 'S'miles of gen-u-whine AF track so I used ACE wheelsets.
When I finished building 40 I had fixed sideframes just like the Athearn
SW-9 who's mechanism is under there. Unlike the instructions, I retained
the equalization of the Athearn trucks. (i.e. when it goes over a bump, one
wheel will go up or down slightly and the other three wheels stay put.) The
equalized wheelsets worked against me as the wheel would go up but the
sideframes, being fixed, would not. The ends of 40's sideframes would pick
at switches and other things.
As I am highrail, I solved this by getting more ACE highrail
wheelsets and making a new set of half axles. Only this time I left the
axle extensions intact. (The part that goes into the journal box.) I
modified the sideframes so the axle extensions actually go into the
sideframes and work!
Because of the working equalization, I had to use ACE Scale
wheelsets to get the axle extensions! The Athearn wheelsets could not be
used. They lack the extension because the HO side frames do not touch the
wheelsets at all. (The shorter HO axles swing up and down less than my
longer S axles. This allows Athearn to have fixed sideframes. On level
track my sideframes are no lower than the Athearn ones.)

Again, thanks to all of you! I finished the rear truck of 40 last night and
tested it on my module. It works great. I have 6 more wheelsets (with
gears, bushings, etc.) ready to install into the other three trucks.

Thorin



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21092 From: Neil Trump Date: 9/18/2002
Subject: November CTT
Just received my November CTT today.

I'm afraid it is going back to a period when 'S' is basically ignored again. The only reference you will find for us is a two page spread by SHS and another full page ad from NASG.

They just don't seem to understand other people's needs apart from one.

Regards,

Neil T.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21093 From: gino restivo Date: 9/18/2002
Subject: york update , to ron borsella"s new store
hi all , if you have not gone to ron's store you should , their is
a very good selection of flyer ' S ' ,and a good variety of parts
for flyer , and of course their are other trains in the store

i will do my best to leave the fire hall show and come over
and visit for awhile and of course , I hope the great three will be
signing their book for me as i think this is one of the few times
they are in the same place ?

this would be a great place to go if you have a ? on flyer
trains ,

need directions ? call 1-717-235-6943 , e-mail ronb@...

" Toy Trains Unlimited "
28 York st ,
Hanover .Pa 17331

see you at york ?

Gino


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21094 From: Tim Brown Date: 9/18/2002
Subject: Re: york update , to ron borsella"s new store
Hi,

What is the "fire hall show" you are referring to, who are "the great three" and what book will they be signing? I already know about Ron's store. I was the first one on the list to visit and report back to the list.

Thanks I think,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: gino restivo
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 7:23 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] york update , to ron borsella"s new store


hi all , if you have not gone to ron's store you should , their is
a very good selection of flyer ' S ' ,and a good variety of parts
for flyer , and of course their are other trains in the store

i will do my best to leave the fire hall show and come over
and visit for awhile and of course , I hope the great three will be
signing their book for me as i think this is one of the few times
they are in the same place ?

this would be a great place to go if you have a ? on flyer
trains ,

need directions ? call 1-717-235-6943 , e-mail ronb@...

" Toy Trains Unlimited "
28 York st ,
Hanover .Pa 17331

see you at york ?

Gino


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21095 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 9/18/2002
Subject: 751 Log Loader
Greetings to all! On the top platform, the hole for the motor shaft does
not center with the upper portion of the motor shaft ... it rotates on the
top of the platform. The smaller diameter of this shaft does pass through
the hole and does rotate. Will this make a difference in operation, should
the platform hole be elongated or is there another solution? When
installing the "wheel" should the hub side face the upper platform?
Thanks for any thoughts you can share! Best wishes, Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 21096 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 9/18/2002
Subject: Re: york update , to ron borsella"s new store
Hey Gino, did you get my correction that Ron's open house is Wed. not Thurs..
Bring some parts along also.
Harwood
Group: S-Trains Message: 21097 From: gino restivo Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: Re: york update , to ron borsella"s new store
-----Original Message-----
From: HOwingsiii@... <HOwingsiii@...>
To: Timboy@... <Timboy@...>; S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
<S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; lastman@... <lastman@...>
Date: Thursday, September 19, 2002 12:24 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] york update , to ron borsella"s new store


>Hey Gino, did you get my correction that Ron's open house is Wed. not
Thurs..
> Bring some parts along also.
>Harwood
>

-------------------------------------------
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Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month!
Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 21098 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: Re: Attach gear to small shaft: RESOLVED!
Dear Ted:
What makes a good article?

"Making ACE wheelsets fit into Athearn Axles"
OR
"Regauging Athearn Mechanisms for S with ACE wheelsets"

'S'incerely yours,
Thorin

-----Original Message-----
From: TED R LARSON [mailto:mhrreast@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 6:13 PM
To: thorin.marty@...
Cc: mhrreast@...
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Digest Number 1368



I was a bit short on time and therefore was unable to follow this whole
thread. It appears though that it might make a good article for the
Dispatch. I'd enjoy seeing you do that if you are able.

Ted Larson
Bright Ideas
http://iw.rtm.com/brightideas/default.asp


>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 10:34:52 -0500
> From: "Marty.Thorin" <thorin.marty@...>
> Subject: Attach gear to small shaft: RESOLVED!
>
> To all:
> I have been amazed! I posted this two days ago and have
> received so
> many e-mails and suggestions that I can't respond to everyone
> individually!
> I am truly impressed! Many, many thanks!
>
> The solution that was used was to gently nip the axles with a good
> pair of
> wire cutters. So I 'roughen up' then ends of the ACE half-axles
> where they
> extend into the Athearn gears. It worked so good that when I was
> done I
> rechecked the others and found one to fix
> Re-wheeling two steeplecabs each with two trucks with four
> wheels
> each. This is 16 wheels and half axles. Of these, only 3 were
> sloppy loose
> and two more were semi-loose. All are now tight.
>
> Several people suggested glue but avoiding glue was the original
> objective.
>
> Dick Karnes suggested I just slide out the original Athearn half
> axles,
> regauge to S, and secure with a drop of glue. This would normally
> work and
> is the Scale suggestion that comes with the Hoquat shell. But I am
> highrail
> with 'S'mile and 'S'miles of gen-u-whine AF track so I used ACE
> wheelsets.
> When I finished building 40 I had fixed sideframes just like the
> Athearn
> SW-9 who's mechanism is under there. Unlike the instructions, I
> retained
> the equalization of the Athearn trucks. (i.e. when it goes over a
> bump, one
> wheel will go up or down slightly and the other three wheels stay
> put.) The
> equalized wheelsets worked against me as the wheel would go up but
> the
> sideframes, being fixed, would not. The ends of 40's sideframes
> would pick
> at switches and other things.
> As I am highrail, I solved this by getting more ACE
> highrail
> wheelsets and making a new set of half axles. Only this time I left
> the
> axle extensions intact. (The part that goes into the journal box.)
> I
> modified the sideframes so the axle extensions actually go into the
> sideframes and work!
> Because of the working equalization, I had to use ACE Scale
> wheelsets to get the axle extensions! The Athearn wheelsets could
> not be
> used. They lack the extension because the HO side frames do not
> touch the
> wheelsets at all. (The shorter HO axles swing up and down less than
> my
> longer S axles. This allows Athearn to have fixed sideframes. On
> level
> track my sideframes are no lower than the Athearn ones.)
>
> Again, thanks to all of you! I finished the rear truck of 40 last
> night and
> tested it on my module. It works great. I have 6 more wheelsets
> (with
> gears, bushings, etc.) ready to install into the other three
> trucks.
>
> Thorin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21099 From: Dayna Warner Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: New Release making it's debut
For any of you who are in the area we will be debuting the first of our downtown modular structures (The Siegel Building) at the Nutmeg Division Annual Train Show in Vernon, Ct. on Sunday 22, 2002.This year it is being held at The Colony at the Quality Inn Complex, Route 83 and runs from 10 'til 3. Hope to see some of you there. I will post a photo on the web as soon as I can. My display model isn't even finished yet! But it will be by Sunday!
Dayna Warner CEO
Trainstuff LLC
www.trainstuffllc.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21100 From: Mark Preman Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: Gilbert Get-together at York
Tis the season when we start talking about York. Don't
forget the Gilbert get-together Thursday evening at
9pm at the Four Winds Hotel (accross from the
Billie-Bud). Mark

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21101 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: Re: Axle problem
Brilliant! I hadn't thought of this one!

Thorin

-----Original Message-----
From: Boss31@... [mailto:Boss31@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 10:23 AM
To: thorin.marty@...
Subject: Axle problem


Thorin,

Try clamping the axle in a vise and run a "die" of a size just slightly
smaller on it. This will effectively "knurl" it. I do this all the time on
worn Flyer loco wheels with a "tap."

Regards....Steve...S-'n-S Trains....Boise.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21102 From: knockbill Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: 293
Hi All
I picked up a 293 & tender at a meet last weekend... Found it in a
box under the table....
I am cleaning , repairing and just tuning it up for the layout...
I noticed that the wires from the engine go to a jack, however the
boiler shell is not drilled & tapped to hold the jack??? I believe it
is original, but I can' be sure.......
My question,, Is the 293 normally hard wired to the tender, ( if so
what type of insulation, this one is the clothe stuff), or is there
supposed to be a jack & plug?
Thanks in advcance, see you at York
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 21103 From: David Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: Re: Attach gear to small shaft: RESOLVED!
Marty you didn't have to go to all that trouble. All you needed to do
was rub the part of the axel where you were going to mount the gear
that was too thin against some Lionel. In a few days a rust and/or
crud buildup would appear. Just slide the gear over the rust/crud and
it holds the gear firmly, yet its still adjustable. Note: Don't rub
too much Lionel on it as you'll get too much rust/crud and the axel
might rot through causing you to need to replace the whole axel
prematurely. Enjoy....
Group: S-Trains Message: 21104 From: David Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert Get-together at York
This has been changed to 9AM Friday at the donut place on the corner
of Highland Ave.

Hee heee heee.......
Group: S-Trains Message: 21105 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: "Toy Train Memories" by CTT
Well,...just received my free "Toy Train Memories" book from CTT,... (a $29.99 value!) !!
It is a beautiful book with old B&W pics and color pics of newer layouts. Of course,...my favorite
page is page 33!! They used a pic of me when I was seven. And there is only one thing scarier then
a pic of me at seven,...a HUGE pic of me at the age of seven!! They gave me a whole page!!
I can now go to that 'big train station in the sky', knowing I that I have left behind some small trace, (other then all the train stuff around the house!!) of my train madness!!


Rick.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21106 From: gino restivo Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: help with York Train Shows Please
hi all , can someone or any one post the place's
and or times of train shows-dealers around the York area
before the TCA meet such as ;

billie buds ?
holidome ?
others ?

much thanks , Gino


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21107 From: Clay Buckage Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: Re: help with York Train Shows Please
Gino...

check out Clem's Primer at
http://www.toytrains.info/news.asp?t=primer

Don't forget the Gilbert Get-Together
Four Points Sheraton
off Arsenal Road
behind the 'round the clock' diner

regards..
Clay


"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?"
"The Shadow knows"

Clay Buckage
Dave's Twacks & Twains
Box 388
Tatamy, Pa. 18085
cbuckage@...
clay@...
www.davestnt.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "gino restivo" <lastman@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 2:52 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] help with York Train Shows Please


> hi all , can someone or any one post the place's
> and or times of train shows-dealers around the York area
> before the TCA meet such as ;
>
> billie buds ?
> holidome ?
> others ?
>
> much thanks , Gino
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21108 From: Michael Greene Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: River Raisin Troop Sleepers - Pilot Model Construction Photos
If you have Troop Cars on order from River Raisin Models or have been
thinking about ordering, you might be interested in the latest photos
posted to the web site - photos of the pilot models under construction.
Take a look at:

http://www.riverraisinmodels.com

I especially like the one with the interior detail of the troop sleeper.

Enjoy!
Michael
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Greene Dunstable, MA, USA
Member: NMRA(Life), NASG, Bristol S Gaugers, NTRAK, TCA, The 470 Railroad
Club

Bristol S Gaugers http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com
National Assoc. of S Gaugers http://www.nasg.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Group: S-Trains Message: 21109 From: Don Thompson Date: 9/19/2002
Subject: Re: Fall Get-Together
Don't forget the Fall Get-Together this Saturday. at South Amboy,
NJ You can find more info at:
http://www.nasg.org/cjss.html

So far we have had the following vendors express an interest in tables:
River Raisin Models
Port Lines
Pennsy Models
S Designs
Hoquatt Hobbies
SSL&L
Banta Models
S Helper Service (open house at warehouse Saturday afternoon)

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 21110 From: Ted Larson Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: Fwd: [switchers] Digest Number 19
--- switchers@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> Check out this URL for hundreds of drawings of Switchers (and other
> locos) if you need a white outline for trying
> different color shemes, or to just print some drawings of different
> switchers....
>
> http://paintshop.railfan.net/emd.html#switchers
>
> This is my favorite three foot gauge switcher....
>
> http://paintshop.railfan.net/images/other/ind_switcher.html
>

=====
Ted Larson

__________________________________________________
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New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21111 From: Bill Lane Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: Calling John Armstrong
John Armstrong of Ohio, please contact me if you still have the Omnicon
steam loco drives you had for sale at the convention this year.

Thanks
Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 21112 From: knockbill Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: 293
Hi again,
I asked about the wiring harness of a 293 in my last post (hard wired
or through a jack & plug)..if anyone has an answer, please post it,
instead of e-mail as my ISP is moving & the mail server is down
Thanks again
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 21113 From: Ted Larson Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: Fwd: Re: Tires
Somebody recently asked about tires. This company makes tires for S
scale farm tractors (and trucks???).
http://www.cdmodels.com/

CC&D Models, Inc. Call (605)-398-6360
RR1, Box100
Summit, SD 57266
E-Mail address: cdmodels@...

> From: Cdmodels@...
> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 08:14:22 EDT
> Subject: Re: Tires
> To: mhrreast@...
>
> tires that you want at $1.50 a pair
> if you want to send the list of models you want to replace tires on
> I'll check and make sure we have them.
> David


=====
Ted Larson

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 21114 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: 293
John, the early 293 was wired with a 5 conductor (4 pins plus a rivet)
panel. Its tender had a four conductor black fabric wrapped wire harness
ending in a four prong plug, plus a cloth covered "5th wire" .

The later 293 was direct wired to the tender with a four wire (black,
green, and two gray) harness plus a black fifth wire". These wires were
rubber? coated.

Does your loco have a date stamped inside the boiler? There should be two
screw holes in the back of the cab for mounting the panel. If there is no
sign of wear in the threads, it might have been direct wired.

There are other little variations that might help date the loco further.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21115 From: Paul Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: New Book
I just updated my bookstore page.
http://www.gate.net/~yorke/booklist2.htm
I added a new book called "American Flyer Classic Toy Trains" by Gerry
Souter, Janet Souter, Bill Milne (Photographer)
It sells for about $25.
Anybody familiar with this project? Know any of these folks?
This book is due out next month.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21116 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1587
Train shows at York

Billy Bud
Holidome
Best Western
Valencia ? ball room (center of old town York). This show starts
Tuesday.

Jerry 77-11644

________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21117 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, September 22, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page
http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21118 From: gino restivo Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1587
thanks Gerald , please note the Valencia Ballroom show has moved to
the " Reliance Fire Hall " 2 yrs ago ., it is aprox 2 blocks west of the
York fairgrounds ( before the traffic lite ) on the same side of street

thanks , gino

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald R Dobbs <grdobbs@...>
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, September 20, 2002 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1587


>
> Train shows at York
>
> Billy Bud
> Holidome
> Best Western
> Valencia ? ball room (center of old town York). This show starts
>Tuesday.
>
> Jerry 77-11644
>
>________________________________________________________________
>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
>Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

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Group: S-Trains Message: 21119 From: gino restivo Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1587
thanks Gerald , please note the Valencia Ballroom show has moved to
the " Reliance Fire Hall " 2 yrs ago ., it is aprox 2 blocks west of the
York fairgrounds ( before the traffic lite ) on the same side of street

thanks , gino

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald R Dobbs <grdobbs@...>
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, September 20, 2002 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1587


>
> Train shows at York
>
> Billy Bud
> Holidome
> Best Western
> Valencia ? ball room (center of old town York). This show starts
>Tuesday.
>
> Jerry 77-11644
>
>________________________________________________________________
>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
>Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

-------------------------------------------
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Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month!
Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 21120 From: Tim Brown Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: Virus again
Is anyone else on this list getting repeated virus attacks? I've had 6 attempts in 2 days against my personal computer.

Thanks,
Tim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21121 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: Re: Virus again
Sorry...i've quit counting..."dc1,5 etc...Some girl...and others....I really
like my Norton AV....Deletes probely more than I know...Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>
To: "S-List" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 9:14 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Virus again


> Is anyone else on this list getting repeated virus attacks? I've had 6
attempts in 2 days against my personal computer.
>
> Thanks,
> Tim
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21122 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: New book,
Saw this new book on Tues at Greenberg's office in Sykesville, Md. Stopped
by to see Jim Patterson and he had just received his copy from publisher.
There are a number of Jim's items in the book along with Lou Kohler's who
also works at Greebergs. The other items and layouts pics are from members
of the Baltimore Area American Flyer club. Some of the Pre-war flyer items
belong to a gentleman in northern VA. Beautilful "coffee table" book. Hope
this it the one you are ralking about. It is by Barnes & Noble books of NY.
They did one on Lionel about a Year or so ago.
Harwood
Group: S-Trains Message: 21123 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: York shows
Both Holiday shows start on Wed. outside and on Tues. on the inside. Dealers
start setting up around 6:30 am on Wed. mornings outside. Back about 20
years ago they started setting up in the dark at the "Billy Bud" and you had
to use a flashlight, but now they get going after sunrise.
Harwood
Group: S-Trains Message: 21124 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: Re: New Book
In a message dated 9/20/02 7:27:52 PM, yorke@... writes:

<< I added a new book called "American Flyer Classic Toy Trains" by Gerry
Souter, Janet Souter, Bill Milne (Photographer) It sells for about $25.
Anybody familiar with this project? Know any of these folks? This book is due
out next month. >>

This is, primarily, a picture book (lots of good photography) intended for
casual perusing. It is not intended as a collector guide. I includes examples
of "Chicago" Flyer as well as Gilbert.

Another book that you all should be aware of is "The Man Who Changed How Toys
and Boys Were Made" by Bruce Watson, Penguin Press. It is due out
mid-October. This book is well-written -- I've seen an advance copy. It's a
biography of ACG. Part of the book has been fashioned into a made-for-TV
movie entitled "The Man Who Saved Christmas" due for release during the
holidays. Jason Alexander (who doesn't look much like a pole vaulter <grin>)
plays the part of AC.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 21125 From: TCS Date: 9/20/2002
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals
726 SL-SF transfer caboose. (1980's) Painted caboose red and tuscon red.
Black, white and yellow lettering. Artwork by Richard Napper.

727 SL-SF motor car. (1940's) Painted pullman green. White and black
lettering. Artwork by Richard Napper.

728 L&N 3 bay coal car. (6-71) Painted orange with black lettering.
Artwork by Curt Fortenberry. Number series 193200-193399.

729 L&N 3 bay coal car. (4-70) Painted orange with black lettering.
Artwork by Curt Fortenberry. Number series 193000-193199.

Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-.
N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These
should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so.

If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N,
HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $2.00 for p&h. You buy this catalog once,
then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring
binder.

---
---
Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals
N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals for prototype models
26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054
Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@...
Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/
Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/
NMRA Member #121756
Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
MPHS web site http://mopac.org/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21126 From: knockbill Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: 293
Thanks to all that replied,,, I see that my engine is a 1956 model,,
so I wired it like the 313 I have of the same year
Thanks again for all the help
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 21127 From: Mark Preman Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: Great American Train Show - Orlando
Just in case you will be in the area, this is a good
one! September 28 and 29. Mark

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

__________________________________________________
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New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21128 From: Dayna Warner Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: detailing tip
Some one on the Model RR Structures list posted this site. http://www.trevinocircle.com/adsigns.asp
I am in the process of getting a display model ready for a show tomorrow and remembered I had downloaded these signs before. I needed some large signs for the side of a building like they used to do in the 40s & 50s. and didn't have any decals or dry transfers that were large enough. I also didn't have time to make a decal sheet. What I did do is isolate a sign and size it to where I wanted it. I took a piece of tissue paper that comes in the packages of Evergreen sheet stock. It has a dull side and a shiny side. I taped the shiny side down to a piece of regular copy paper and then printed the sign I wanted. Took some yellow glue and diluted it down to almost water and placed my sign (after I cut it out of course) onto the area and with a very soft bristle brush worked from the center out settling it into all the brick crevices. Now I have a use for all those tissue sheets that are hanging around!
Dayna Warner CEO
Trainstuff LLC
www.trainstuffllc.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21129 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: York - Too Many Rooms Available!
Something a little strange is going on at York. It was my understanding
that the rooms in the local hotels usually booked a year ahead a time,
by repeat customers. I have also heard of a waiting list you can get on,
so when someone drops out, you can get a room.

Why then, does it appear that there are still rooms available at the
both Holiday Inns, the Days Inn and Red Roof Inns? We just booked the
Days Inn that is around the corner from the Billy Bud for 7 days,
beginning Sunday, for only $54.95 a night. This was done through
Travelocity... The Days Inn web site also showed rooms, but at $116 per
night during the train show. (way more than $54.95! )

The Billy Bud I had booked a room for earlier this week online. When I
called there to question it, they said that I couldn't possibly have
booked a room "today", because they have been full for weeks. Then he
looked up the reservation and said I had a room.

It seems to me, that either the attendance for this meet is going to be
way down, or that the reservation systems of several motels is selling
each room, over and over again, like overbooking an airplane. I am a
little concerned...
Group: S-Trains Message: 21130 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21131 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: Re: York - Too Many Rooms Available!
Chuck I was one of those , who in the 80's had a permenant room
setup....never mised one....I too am still puzzeled....I still keep thinking
maybe I have the wrong week....But no...I'm right....Could it be that after
9-11 people are afraid to travel....How was april? last sept? last june we
went for a two week trip to the falls...I went over into Canada several
times...once to visit the British Lancaster Bomber....All along the trip,
mid June, I had no problems finding motels, without reservations....Every
where we stopped for the night we looked at several to get the best
rate....The only problem we had on the trip was the GATS show wanting to
charge my wife 7.00 to use the restroom....How about you guys who have been
lately....WHATS UP?....BTW...I was going to go last april and I found a room
in York about a week before the meet...but I had to cancel it...Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Harrington" <myflyertrains@...>
Cc: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 12:41 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] York - Too Many Rooms Available!


>
> Something a little strange is going on at York. It was my understanding
> that the rooms in the local hotels usually booked a year ahead a time,
> by repeat customers. I have also heard of a waiting list you can get on,
> so when someone drops out, you can get a room.
>
> Why then, does it appear that there are still rooms available at the
> both Holiday Inns, the Days Inn and Red Roof Inns? We just booked the
> Days Inn that is around the corner from the Billy Bud for 7 days,
> beginning Sunday, for only $54.95 a night. This was done through
> Travelocity... The Days Inn web site also showed rooms, but at $116 per
> night during the train show. (way more than $54.95! )
>
> The Billy Bud I had booked a room for earlier this week online. When I
> called there to question it, they said that I couldn't possibly have
> booked a room "today", because they have been full for weeks. Then he
> looked up the reservation and said I had a room.
>
> It seems to me, that either the attendance for this meet is going to be
> way down, or that the reservation systems of several motels is selling
> each room, over and over again, like overbooking an airplane. I am a
> little concerned...
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21132 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: Re: York - Too Many Rooms Available!
Chuck, last spring rooms were tough to get. We stay in Hanover and even
that was booked way in advance. But money has gotten very tight since since
april, stock mkt., etc.
Harwood
Group: S-Trains Message: 21133 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: Re: York - REASONABLE PRICES?
Guys....Does this mean maybe some REASONABLE PRICES???????...hope so....What
are your thoughts....I know things are very tight....I am even hanging on to
dollars veeerrryy tightly...Yet I just paid almost 400.00 for a Berkeley
B-17 airplane kit....I have a high bid on several flyer items now on the
net.....But my gut feeling sez "Get Out Of Debt"...."Fast"...anyone else
feel this way?...Seems like when I talk with people I hear "I keep all my
money in my house", "I keep all my money in a safe", "I keep all my money in
a etc, etc, etc"...Does any body keep it in a bank anymore? Comments
please...Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 21134 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: Re: York - Too Many Rooms Available!
Just played around....found 4 motels in York saying " Rooms Avail"....? What
gives....these were on two different Res.
services...Travelocity...Orbitz...Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 21135 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: Re: York - Too Many Rooms Available!
CHUCK.....Thanks....I have booked at the red roof inn 44.99 a night from
mon to friday......Now to convince the wife what a great time she will have
in the area...since my billy bud room is 75+ from wed...i will have a backup
before canceling...I spoke with them on the phone...they told me to book on
the net to save 5.00 per day (49.99)...said they had two or three rooms
left.....Bob Conner

ps while typing this my confirmation just came thru....


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Harrington" <myflyertrains@...>
Cc: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 12:41 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] York - Too Many Rooms Available!


>
> Something a little strange is going on at York. It was my understanding
> that the rooms in the local hotels usually booked a year ahead a time,
> by repeat customers. I have also heard of a waiting list you can get on,
> so when someone drops out, you can get a room.
>
> Why then, does it appear that there are still rooms available at the
> both Holiday Inns, the Days Inn and Red Roof Inns? We just booked the
> Days Inn that is around the corner from the Billy Bud for 7 days,
> beginning Sunday, for only $54.95 a night. This was done through
> Travelocity... The Days Inn web site also showed rooms, but at $116 per
> night during the train show. (way more than $54.95! )
>
> The Billy Bud I had booked a room for earlier this week online. When I
> called there to question it, they said that I couldn't possibly have
> booked a room "today", because they have been full for weeks. Then he
> looked up the reservation and said I had a room.
>
> It seems to me, that either the attendance for this meet is going to be
> way down, or that the reservation systems of several motels is selling
> each room, over and over again, like overbooking an airplane. I am a
> little concerned...
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21136 From: Robert Jackson Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: Tractors
Thomas Baker wrote:

> Ted and Group,
>
> For some time I have been looking for a 1/64-scale tractor, one that
> would have been available in 1953. I even went to a John Deere show in
> Berrien Springs, Michigan, three years ago. I found nothing. For that
> matter, the tractors--I need enough for a flat car load--need not be John
> Deere models, just anyone's tractor to coincide with the period. It
> would really be great to have two flat cars with a load from two
> manufacturers. Does anyone know of a reliable dealer. I also went to a
> dealer in Rochester, Minnesota, and found nothing from the time period in
> question. Does someone out there know of a source?
>
> Tom

Tom,
Will those on the front cover of the latest Dispatch (a Bob Werre photo and
composition) suit your needs? I am fairly sure that, with a bit of
persistence, you can find those. They are probably made by Ertl, but Bob would
know.
Bob Jackson
Group: S-Trains Message: 21137 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: ALL ORIGINAL AMERICAN FLYER SMOKE FLUID Item # 1769783426
Well, here it is, you reverse engineering types. Buy it and start making
copies!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1769783426 .


Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21138 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 9/21/2002
Subject: lower prices (was reasonable prices)
Good point. It will be interesting to see if the poor performance of the
economy will result in lower prices for Flyer trains. Perhaps this York
will give some indication.

If it continues, the poor economy might also influence the introduction of
new Hirail products.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21139 From: Tim Brown Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Re: York - REASONABLE PRICES?
Don't expect any reasonable prices on Flyer things in the near future. In fact, my observation is that Flyer prices are up about 15% over last year. Why? 1). Most dealers are now forced to buy collections rather than trains out of an attic or basement (they've mostly been cleaned out of those places years ago); 2) More and more baby boomers want their toys back. I look for train prices to continue the upward spiral. Attendance at train shows this spring has seemed lighter to me, but stuff is still selling. There are occasional bargains, same as always.

Why not put your money into the stock market? Good stocks are still paying out great dividends.

Later,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: robert allen conner
To: myflyertrains@... ; HOwingsiii@...
Cc: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] York - REASONABLE PRICES?


Guys....Does this mean maybe some REASONABLE PRICES???????...hope so....What
are your thoughts....I know things are very tight....I am even hanging on to
dollars veeerrryy tightly...Yet I just paid almost 400.00 for a Berkeley
B-17 airplane kit....I have a high bid on several flyer items now on the
net.....But my gut feeling sez "Get Out Of Debt"...."Fast"...anyone else
feel this way?...Seems like when I talk with people I hear "I keep all my
money in my house", "I keep all my money in a safe", "I keep all my money in
a etc, etc, etc"...Does any body keep it in a bank anymore? Comments
please...Bob


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21140 From: SMASTER636@aol.com Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Philadelphia American Flyer
Group:

I will be in Philadelphia 9/23 - 9/28. Any decent American Flyer hobby stores
in the area?

Joe Fariello
Cooper City, FL.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21141 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Fwd: Ron Borslla's Open House
<PRE>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21142 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Re: Too Many Rooms!
Many hotels reserve space for different booking clients, such as
Travelocity. They know that these services must have available space in
order to operate without constantly checking back with the hotel. So here's
how it works.

Travelocity is guaranteed say, 15 rooms at the Red Roof. As they book them,
they check off each one until they reach 15. Then Travelocity is sold out
of Red Roof rooms. But even before they sold out, the hotel considers those
rooms as gone, not in their inventory. Only at the last minute, day of
event, does Travelocity "give back" the unsold rooms to the hotel for last
minute sign ups.

This same system is why you can't book a sold out flight or a long sold out
concert, but a travel agent or ticket broker can get you in.

Stop being concerned. You have your room.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21143 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Re: York - REASONABLE PRICES?
In a message dated 9/22/02 8:13:56 AM, Timboy@... writes:

<< Don't expect any reasonable prices on Flyer things in the near future. In
fact, my observation is that Flyer prices are up about 15% over last year.
Why? 1). Most dealers are now forced to buy collections rather than trains
out of an attic or basement (they've mostly been cleaned out of those places
years ago); 2) More and more baby boomers want their toys back. I look for
train prices to continue the upward spiral. >>

Permit me to comment to this extent. Other than for the few accessories
redone by Lionel and MTH, I certainly haven't seen a decrease in the value of
any vintage New Haven Gilbert Flyer. Placing a percentage on the increase in
values is problematical because the categories do not move in unison. There
are certain segments that are pretty steady, "flat" if you will (e.g., more
common rolling stock). After a healthy rise, some of the diecast steam
engines appear to be taking bit of a breather, but other areas continue to ap
preciate. The big passenger stuff has definitely shaken off the effects of
the LTI reintroductions. There are other pieces that are moving up (e.g.,
nice samples of the rare unbroken tender step version of the 21130 <grin>).

Like all vintage toys, nice examples with their OBs will be more highly
valued. It has become pretty clear that Lionel will not be reproducing large
portions of the old Gilbert catalogs and what they may import will be
Chinese-built and not "desirable" beyond its immediate play value. The total
supply of vintage Gilbert is decreasing each year due to attrition (fire,
flood, being dropped on the floor, etc.). New entrants to the collecting of
original Gilbert show up a tables in modest numbers every train show and
venues like ebay make it easier to B-S-T toy trains. A subgroup of 0 gaugers
also collect a bit of Flyer S gauge trains because they are early examples of
scale tinplate ("scaleplate"). On top of all of this, almost all toy train
production has ceased in the USA and will make vintage domestic stuff more
desirable with the passage of time. The marketplace can vary, but short of an
Armageddon, I find it hard to see prices of vintage Gilbert dropping sharply
over any extended length of time.

By the way, some motel rooms always open up just before York permitting a few
folks some lucky hits. Motel room building in the York area is also starting
to finally catch up with demand. I wouldn't read too much into the isolated
reporting of lucky folk getting a room.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 21144 From: Tim Brown Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Re: York - REASONABLE PRICES?
Very insightful. My blue-sky price increase notation was only meant as an extremely general statement. You're right of, course, price spirals usually aren't straight-lined. I believe the same holds true for inflation in general. My personal inflation rate this past year was lower than a family buying a house, a car and lots of family/baby stuff. The national inflation rate is another extremely general statement and doesn't apply to all equally.

Good comments, RB!

Later,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: RBubeck327@...
To: Timboy@... ; myflyertrains@... ; HOwingsiii@... ; rcon7@...
Cc: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] York - REASONABLE PRICES?



In a message dated 9/22/02 8:13:56 AM, Timboy@... writes:

<< Don't expect any reasonable prices on Flyer things in the near future. In
fact, my observation is that Flyer prices are up about 15% over last year.
Why? 1). Most dealers are now forced to buy collections rather than trains
out of an attic or basement (they've mostly been cleaned out of those places
years ago); 2) More and more baby boomers want their toys back. I look for
train prices to continue the upward spiral. >>

Permit me to comment to this extent. Other than for the few accessories
redone by Lionel and MTH, I certainly haven't seen a decrease in the value of
any vintage New Haven Gilbert Flyer. Placing a percentage on the increase in
values is problematical because the categories do not move in unison. There
are certain segments that are pretty steady, "flat" if you will (e.g., more
common rolling stock). After a healthy rise, some of the diecast steam
engines appear to be taking bit of a breather, but other areas continue to ap
preciate. The big passenger stuff has definitely shaken off the effects of
the LTI reintroductions. There are other pieces that are moving up (e.g.,
nice samples of the rare unbroken tender step version of the 21130 <grin>).

Like all vintage toys, nice examples with their OBs will be more highly
valued. It has become pretty clear that Lionel will not be reproducing large
portions of the old Gilbert catalogs and what they may import will be
Chinese-built and not "desirable" beyond its immediate play value. The total
supply of vintage Gilbert is decreasing each year due to attrition (fire,
flood, being dropped on the floor, etc.). New entrants to the collecting of
original Gilbert show up a tables in modest numbers every train show and
venues like ebay make it easier to B-S-T toy trains. A subgroup of 0 gaugers
also collect a bit of Flyer S gauge trains because they are early examples of
scale tinplate ("scaleplate"). On top of all of this, almost all toy train
production has ceased in the USA and will make vintage domestic stuff more
desirable with the passage of time. The marketplace can vary, but short of an
Armageddon, I find it hard to see prices of vintage Gilbert dropping sharply
over any extended length of time.

By the way, some motel rooms always open up just before York permitting a few
folks some lucky hits. Motel room building in the York area is also starting
to finally catch up with demand. I wouldn't read too much into the isolated
reporting of lucky folk getting a room.

RB

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21145 From: Don Thompson Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Re: Philadelphia American Flyer
Nicholas Smith in Broomall is one (610-353-8585)
Don

SMASTER636@... wrote:

> Group:
>
> I will be in Philadelphia 9/23 - 9/28. Any decent American Flyer hobby stores
> in the area?
>
> Joe Fariello
> Cooper City, FL.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 21146 From: mlmarmer Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Re: Philadelphia American Flyer
Joe,

South of Philadelphia is Great Traditions and Toy Train Station in
Feasterville, PA, a suburb of Philadelphia near the Smith shop. Also in
that area is a place called Leisure Time and a hardware store that sells AF.
Take a look in the phone book, when you get in town.

Maybe you can catch a Phillies game before the season ends, if they are in
town!

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD
----- Original Message -----
From: <SMASTER636@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 11:35 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Philadelphia American Flyer


> Group:
>
> I will be in Philadelphia 9/23 - 9/28. Any decent American Flyer hobby
stores
> in the area?
>
> Joe Fariello
> Cooper City, FL.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21147 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Rooms, rooms, rooms
I have now completed an exhaustive search (and I'm exhausted) of a bunch of
Internet lodging services. Here is what I found.

For hotels actually in York:

Expedia.com - nothing
Travelocity.com - nothing
Orbitz.com - nothing
Hotels.com - nothing
ase.net - Red Roof Inn for $79.99
travelhero.com - Red Roof Inn for $79.99 (Same exact room as ase.net)

Some simply listed only two York hotels. Others didn't acknowledge the
existence of the Red Roof in York, but listed ones in other cities. Rooms
17-25 miles away were the same price or higher.

InnYork.com lists a group of Bed & Breakfasts. They are higher in price,
have 2 - 4 rooms and are booked well in advance. According to Tom Powers,
the operator of the Cycle Inn, a B&B in York, the Spring show is never as
well attended as the Fall and his reservations reflect that.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21148 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, September 22, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page
http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21149 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: More on rooms
Through YorkInn.com I found a B&B 10 minutes from the Fairgrounds for
$55/nite. I booked it in addition to my Red Roof reservation. I have not
yet given up the RR. I have a confirmation number and someone else could
use this. You need to put in your own credit card when you check in. The
res. is for 2 adults, king bed, no smoking. $79.99/nite-2 nites.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21150 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Re: Tractors
Do you have any TSC stores in your area. If coming to York, there is one in
town. Tsc stands for Tractor Sales Corp.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21151 From: TED R LARSON Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: 1953 tractors
>
> Ted and Group,
>
> or some time I have been looking for a 1/64-scale tractor, one that
> would have been available in 1953. It
> would really be great to have two flat cars with a load from two
> manufacturers. Does anyone know of a reliable dealer.


There used to be a Surplus Tractor Parts Supply company in ND(?) that had
many toy tractors and trucks, including S scale.

Most tractor dealers and most farm supply stores have MUCH ERTL stock,
especially before Christmas.

Ted Larson
Bright Ideas
http://iw.rtm.com/brightideas/default.asp

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21152 From: Roy Hoffman Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Re: Philadelphia American Flyer
Joe,

I'm in the process of putting together an on-line listing of hobby
shops that stock S, including AF and AF compatible.

Go to:
http://www.s-scaletrains.com/sfriendly/index.html

When you're there, click on PA or NJ on the map to get a listing.
For the Philadelphia area, look for zip codes of 19xxx and 08xxx.
I especially recommend Chick's Hobbies in NJ just a few minutes from
downtown Philly.

And enjoy your stay where the Eagles romped today!

Roy

--- In S-Trains@y..., "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@m...> wrote:
> Joe,
>
> South of Philadelphia is Great Traditions and Toy Train Station in
> Feasterville, PA, a suburb of Philadelphia near the Smith shop.
Also in
> that area is a place called Leisure Time and a hardware store that
sells AF.
> Take a look in the phone book, when you get in town.
>
> Maybe you can catch a Phillies game before the season ends, if they
are in
> town!
>
> Mike Marmer
> Germantown, MD
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <SMASTER636@a...>
> To: <S-Trains@y...>
> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 11:35 AM
> Subject: [S-Trains] Philadelphia American Flyer
>
>
> > Group:
> >
> > I will be in Philadelphia 9/23 - 9/28. Any decent American Flyer
hobby
> stores
> > in the area?
> >
> > Joe Fariello
> > Cooper City, FL.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
Group: S-Trains Message: 21153 From: Dayna Warner Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: The Siegel Building
As promised I got a photo of the latest addition to our S scale line. The coke sign on the side was printed on tissue paper and applied sort of like a decal using Elmer's wood glue mixed with a lot of water and then settles into the brick mortar lines with a large soft bristle paint brush. You can see it in the gallery below or on the S scale Structures page on our web site. This is the first in our modular series.
http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/gallery/gallery/album26/S_scale_Siegel_Bldg_2
Dayna Warner CEO
Trainstuff LLC
www.trainstuffllc.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21154 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Re: More on rooms
More on this room question....When I booked the rr inn the rate for wed,
thur and fri was about 80+ per night...but when I explored the dates further
I found the same motel was 44.95 from Mon, tue, wed, thur, fri....IE: 5 days
were cheaper that 3 days!!!!...Also the lady at the motel I spoke with said
if I went thru her it would be 49.95 per night for those days....Book online
and save 5.00 she said...So I am booked in on monday...still have a reserv
at the bb for wed, thur, fri..As a backup......Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
To: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 5:28 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] More on rooms


> Through YorkInn.com I found a B&B 10 minutes from the Fairgrounds for
> $55/nite. I booked it in addition to my Red Roof reservation. I have not
> yet given up the RR. I have a confirmation number and someone else could
> use this. You need to put in your own credit card when you check in. The
> res. is for 2 adults, king bed, no smoking. $79.99/nite-2 nites.
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21155 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: more on rooms
This is hilarious! The motels are double booking? rooms and you guys are
all reserving several rooms each. I can't wait to find out how it works
out.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21156 From: John Harvey Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Smoke In Tender Repair
I am the proud owner of 3 smoke in tender units in varying stages of disrepair! I own all of the usual AF repair manuals. However none of these have repair instructions or an exploded diagram of a tender smoke unit. I know where to obtain spare parts but can anyone provide me with a set of detailed pictures and instructions (and handy hints on these).

Regards,

John Harvey
brigadie@...


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21157 From: Karl Raab Date: 9/22/2002
Subject: Boston Area - American Flyer
Group:
I'll be in the Boston area from 9/29 thru 10/3. I am planning on
stopping in at Portlines Hobby in Newburyport, but I thought that I
would ask about other shops for American flyer and "S" gauge trains
in the Boston area. I tried Roy Hoffman's neat listing, but nothing
is posted as yet for Mass. His list will be a great help as it
progresses.
Thanx in advance.
Karl Raab
Chicago, IL
Group: S-Trains Message: 21158 From: mlmarmer Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: Re: More on rooms
To all of you, who are double, triple or what ever booked on rooms for York
in October, please think of others, who are not into trains, but who are
traveling to the York and Lancaster area because it is a busy time for
lodging with the Fall folage. It isn't fair to a small business owner to
turn away business to a couple, or to the couple or family, who want to stay
on a Friday and Saturday night and can't because you are trying to save a
few bucks and are paranoid that your hotel reservations didn't go though. If
you got a comfirmation, it went through. And then you cancel at the last
minute, causing these business owners to lose income. It is very selfish on
what you are doing. This a busy time for the lodging industry and you are
messing with their livilyhood. Please think about it.

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD
Group: S-Trains Message: 21159 From: Tim Brown Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: Re: More on rooms
Perhaps we ought to be as concerned with WHY these people have such little confidence in the hospitality industry that they feel compelled to overbook. They ain't doing it for funnsies.

Later,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: mlmarmer
To: slist
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] More on rooms


To all of you, who are double, triple or what ever booked on rooms for York
in October, please think of others, who are not into trains, but who are
traveling to the York and Lancaster area because it is a busy time for
lodging with the Fall folage. It isn't fair to a small business owner to
turn away business to a couple, or to the couple or family, who want to stay
on a Friday and Saturday night and can't because you are trying to save a
few bucks and are paranoid that your hotel reservations didn't go though. If
you got a comfirmation, it went through. And then you cancel at the last
minute, causing these business owners to lose income. It is very selfish on
what you are doing. This a busy time for the lodging industry and you are
messing with their livilyhood. Please think about it.

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21160 From: Roy Hoffman Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: Re: Boston Area - American Flyer
Hi Karl,

I've been trying to populate the page with dealers, but there's no
reason why I can't do a state "on demand". I put some dealers into
the Massachusetts page for you. I'm using the dealer lists from both
AM and SHS as a starting point. I'm frankly amazed at the number of
dealers both of them have for their products. I not only hope to
consolidate a list of "S Friendly" hobby shops stocking S, but I'd
like to mount a campaign to encourage more dealers to do it.

If anyone would like to help me with the list, please do!

Some day I hope to round up all the web sites for the dealers that
have them, too.

Roy

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Karl Raab" <Frilen@a...> wrote:
> Group:
> I'll be in the Boston area from 9/29 thru 10/3. I am planning on
> stopping in at Portlines Hobby in Newburyport, but I thought that I
> would ask about other shops for American flyer and "S" gauge trains
> in the Boston area. I tried Roy Hoffman's neat listing, but
nothing
> is posted as yet for Mass. His list will be a great help as it
> progresses.
> Thanx in advance.
> Karl Raab
> Chicago, IL
Group: S-Trains Message: 21161 From: mlmarmer Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: Re: Boston Area - American Flyer
Karl,

I have been to Hobby Connection on 4 Franklin St. Stoneham, MA.
1-718-438-1697, a suburb of Boston. The two times, I have been there, they
had a nice selection of used AF. I picked up a LN western MD hopper and a
very LN plus, 5 digit NH electric engine, at reasonable prices. Of course,
buying used AF is hit and miss. It is a family run business and they very
friendly and will talk to you like you are an old friend.

Then you have Charles RO and North East Trains. Both should be in the phone
book. There are a few more in the phone book.

Have a great time in Boston. It is a wonderful city.

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karl Raab" <Frilen@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 2:49 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Boston Area - American Flyer


> Group:
> I'll be in the Boston area from 9/29 thru 10/3. I am planning on
> stopping in at Portlines Hobby in Newburyport, but I thought that I
> would ask about other shops for American flyer and "S" gauge trains
> in the Boston area. I tried Roy Hoffman's neat listing, but nothing
> is posted as yet for Mass. His list will be a great help as it
> progresses.
> Thanx in advance.
> Karl Raab
> Chicago, IL
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
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>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21162 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: More Shows
Mike, I am in agreement with your statement. There many be other events
going on in the York area. i.e. car show, etc. Think of others when you do
something like this. The city of York needs all the revenue it can get these
days. Just think of some people who cant come to TCA York because they cant
get a room. Many new members dont know they have to book way in advance.
Harwood
Group: S-Trains Message: 21163 From: robert allen conner Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: Re: More on rooms
Guys and Gals....I used to go to York every year from 1982 until
1991.....Twice each year....I had a standing room at the BB for
years....never worried....Then because of open heart surgery...6 bi
passes...I couldn't go any more...over the last two years I have wanted to
go but could not find a room anywhere within reason...In april I found one
at about 179...I used to pay over 100 at the BB in 89, 90, 91....Now all of
a sudden I found one at the BB for 79+-.....someone else found one for
54+-....I looked again and found one for 45.....I am going to cancel one of
them as soon as plans firm up for the trip....As a self employed
person....sometimes its hard to get away on time like you plan....It just
seems crazy this room thing all of a sudden.....But when we travel, I almost
never make a reservation as rooms are always plentiful...( I do remember
once it Oregon...the town was packed...no rooms...The motel manager told me
the best place to park my chevy truck was back in the back among the other
cars...and sleep in the covered area that we were using for camping anyway )
I will keep you posted on which room I give up so if somebody needs one
maybe they can have it....Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 21164 From: David Dewey Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: Re: More on rooms
Hi all,
Well, I'm probably unique amongst this group, as I was raised "on the
other side of the counter"--actually, until we built the new home/office
when I was in eighth grade, the office WAS our living room! We still don't
have a "secure room" type office, when you walk in the office door, you look
directly into the living room through a large glassless window opening. A
good incentive to keep the living room clean! (it's not my house, it's my
brother's--whew!)
Anyway, I do agree that all this double-booking not only makes it hard on
others to get a room, until the last minute, it also creates an artifical
demand for rooms, which CAN artifically raise rates (Something I was never
taught to do, we had two rates: Summertime and the rest of the year, and the
prices weren't all that different).
However, that being said I do remember booking rooms at "the last
minute" for the major Northern Calif. old car swap meet in Turlock, and
being surprised I could get the room. Well when I arrived, it WAS a mistake,
but they still were able to get me a room by taking the spare TVs out of one
(they were doing a remodel). I have also accidently overbooked and had to
call around that AM to get a room for the people (discovered the mistake in
the AM when I was setting out the reservations, one of the joys of a
non-automated system!). The guests still weren't happy, and I couldn't
blame them, although we offered to let them use all our facility and I had a
room for them the next day (we get week-long vacationers). Sad thing, it was
an old-time customer too.
Anyway, call into the office, not the 800 reservation number and confirm
your reservation and your deposit (visa etc.) and then let someone else have
your other rooms!
Of course, if you end up with no room, I was never here!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21165 From: David Dewey Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: Re: More on rooms
While Larry has good points, I must mention that airlines have ALWAYS (at
least in my lifetime) been notorious for overbooking flights. After all, the
figure if they can't put you on this flight they can put you on the next.
Doesn't work that way w/ motel rooms! Er, uh, unless you're staying in one
of those "one hour" rate joints. . . . ;-)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21166 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: rooms
Wife and I solved the room problem many years ago at York, we stay in
Gettysburg, in a place right on the battlefield and get to see the sights
there when we can't look at another train. Relaxing and informative.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21167 From: Michael T Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: Royal Blue Loco
Does anybody out there know if the front truck off of engines like
the 290,303 and 307 will fit the Royal Blue?? I bought a Royal Blue
off of eBay with the front truck missing and I have an extra 307 that
I am willing to sacrifice. I have not received the Royal Blue yet so
I thought i would ask you guys so I'd be prepared. Anybody out there
know? Thanks

Michael T
Chicago, IL
Group: S-Trains Message: 21168 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: royal blue
Michael, the pilot truck on the Royal Blue type locos is not
interchangeable with any other Flyer pilot truck..

The wheelbase is shorter, the design is different, and the mounting is
different, as the stud is mounted in a stamped metal plate screwed to the
loco body..

This truck often tracks badly, whether it is original or repro. The truck
frame is stamped metal. Mounting a piece of lead inside it may help. The
block of lead should not touch the axles.

Hope this helps.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21169 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: Re: Royal Blue Loco
In a message dated 9/23/02 10:09:30 PM, Spots350SL@... writes:

<< Does anybody out there know if the front truck off of engines like
the 290,303 and 307 will fit the Royal Blue?? >>

No. The lead truck of the 350 is shorter in length than for the 300s, 290s,
etc.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 21170 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1590
Dudes . . . chill out!

I made my Red Roof reservation so I'd have a room. Then I hunted for a
better room (read cheaper, nicer, in a B&B). Once I found it, I booked it.
Twenty minutes later! Then I offered my first booking to anybody on the
list who needed it because you guys come first in my eyes before some
anonymous business person.

I am still holding the two reservations and will cancel one of them in a day
or so. Remember, it's for a date nearly a month away! Let's keep our
senses here and not get all moral high-groundy about being fair to business
travelers.

Moderation and common sense sans judgement would be a good motto.


Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21171 From: Karl Raab Date: 9/23/2002
Subject: Boston Area -American Flyer
Group:
Thank you all for the information posted and emails sent, it's
really appreciated. Special thank you to Roy Hoffman for his
kindness in postings to his list.
Thanx again...Karl
Group: S-Trains Message: 21172 From: Neil Trump Date: 9/24/2002
Subject: What actually is the definition of 'Pull-Mor'?
I see people refer to AF loco's as having the Pull-Mor feature, yet I am a bit confused as to ''what is' Pull-Mor on an engine.

I always thought that this feature applied to the rubber bonded on the wheels to give better traction, but others seem to apply this feature to the motors. My problem with people making reference to the motors being Pull-Mor is that basically the motor design hardly changed at all, so for me it must refer to the wheels.

Now we all know that those 'L' people stole this named feature from the Flyer range and applied it to their main 'O' gauge line to describe motors. I'm sure I have seen 'L' describe loco's with can motors and the old style open frame motors as having Pull-Mor which makes it even more confusing.

With regards to copyright etc. are 'L' actually using this name when the patent office may actually have it described as something else?

Regards,

Neil T.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21173 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/24/2002
Subject: Re: What actually is the definition of 'Pull-Mor'?
Neil wrote:
**(( My problem with people making reference to the motors being Pull-Mor is that basically the motor design hardly changed at all, so for me it must refer to the wheels.))***

In Thomas B. Barker's book,...it show pics of the various motors.
--Pre-Pull Mor
--Standard Pull Mor
--Super Motor

I'll let the experts here tell ya the difference Neil,...but visually (sp?), you can see the difference.
Didn't Lionel use somewhat the same term for their wheels??

Rick.










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21174 From: Neil Trump Date: 9/24/2002
Subject: Re: What actually is the definition of 'Pull-Mor'?
Rick and all,

OK, I did say that the motors were basically the same and that visually you
can see a difference in them, but I'm not sure if the armature is the sole
contributor to the Pull-Mor feature that Gilbert was trying sell us.

With regards to speed, I would have to say that my 360's seem to be superior
to my 470, 484 PA's. If I put a couple of Pull-Mor wheels on the 360 I
reckon it would perform better.

Neil




> In Thomas B. Barker's book,...it show pics of the various motors.
> --Pre-Pull Mor
> --Standard Pull Mor
> --Super Motor
>
> I'll let the experts here tell ya the difference Neil,...but visually
(sp?), you can see the difference.
> Didn't Lionel use somewhat the same term for their wheels??
>
> Rick.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21175 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 9/24/2002
Subject: Re: What actually is the definition of 'Pull-Mor'?
I measured my steamer motors and they are the same except for the
"S" mtr
Didn't "L" use "magna-traction" ????
Ken


-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Evans [mailto:comic@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 2:24 PM
To: Neil Trump
Cc: S-Trains
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] What actually is the definition of 'Pull-Mor'?


Neil wrote:
**(( My problem with people making reference to the motors being Pull-Mor
is that basically the motor design hardly changed at all, so for me it must
refer to the wheels.))***

In Thomas B. Barker's book,...it show pics of the various motors.
--Pre-Pull Mor
--Standard Pull Mor
--Super Motor

I'll let the experts here tell ya the difference Neil,...but visually
(sp?), you can see the difference.
Didn't Lionel use somewhat the same term for their wheels??

Rick.










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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+

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 21176 From: Chuck Smith Date: 9/24/2002
Subject: Re: What actually is the definition of 'Pull-Mor'?
Pull more improved the traction by using rubber tires. This meant the
driving wheels did not slip to protect the motor from stalling. The
ability to stall the motor drove a change in motor design to allow the
motor to better withstand the heavier current draw and therefore heat
build-up that occurs when stalled.

Neil Trump wrote:
>
> I see people refer to AF loco's as having the Pull-Mor feature, yet I am a bit confused as to ''what is' Pull-Mor on an engine.
>
> I always thought that this feature applied to the rubber bonded on the wheels to give better traction, but others seem to apply this feature to the motors. My problem with people making reference to the motors being Pull-Mor is that basically the motor design hardly changed at all, so for me it must refer to the wheels.
>
> Now we all know that those 'L' people stole this named feature from the Flyer range and applied it to their main 'O' gauge line to describe motors. I'm sure I have seen 'L' describe loco's with can motors and the old style open frame motors as having Pull-Mor which makes it even more confusing.
>
> With regards to copyright etc. are 'L' actually using this name when the patent office may actually have it described as something else?
>
> Regards,
>
> Neil T.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21177 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 9/24/2002
Subject: Re: What actually is the definition of 'Pull-Mor'?
Without going into my reference material, I'll give you what I can remember. Bear in mind, I may not be completely right.

The Pul-mor feature was added by Gilbert in order to increase the pulling power of locos. This was basically a marketing thing to do a one up on Lionel. It mainly consisted of the rubber bands on the drive wheels. It did increase pulling power, especially up grades. Lionel did, in fact, use the term Magna-traction for
their means to increase the traction. Too bad the locos couldn't just use operating sanders like the prototypes. After Lionel bought the rights to the Gilbert name and patents, they started using the Pul-mor terminology on their locos.

Someone let me know if I goofed anywhere here.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO


Neil Trump wrote:

> I see people refer to AF loco's as having the Pull-Mor feature, yet I am a bit confused as to ''what is' Pull-Mor on an engine.
>
> I always thought that this feature applied to the rubber bonded on the wheels to give better traction, but others seem to apply this feature to the motors. My problem with people making reference to the motors being Pull-Mor is that basically the motor design hardly changed at all, so for me it must refer to the wheels.
>
> Now we all know that those 'L' people stole this named feature from the Flyer range and applied it to their main 'O' gauge line to describe motors. I'm sure I have seen 'L' describe loco's with can motors and the old style open frame motors as having Pull-Mor which makes it even more confusing.
>
> With regards to copyright etc. are 'L' actually using this name when the patent office may actually have it described as something else?
>
> Regards,
>
> Neil T.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21178 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 9/24/2002
Subject: Parts wanted
Does anyone out there have an original boiler front/headlight for an AF
Washington loco they would sell me? I am also looking for an end
fence/ladder and a chimney for a 935 caboose. If so, let me know the
condition and the cost.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO
Group: S-Trains Message: 21179 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 9/24/2002
Subject: Re: What actually is the definition of 'Pull-Mor'?
Hi all:
I sort of remember it as being magne-traction for the magnetic
attraction to the rails. Am I off on this?? (actually, magna-traction
looks better, but is close to magma, and that might cause a melt-down.)
Rance Velapoldi

Roger V. Petrella Jr. wrote:

>Without going into my reference material, I'll give you what I can remember. Bear in mind, I may not be completely right.
>
>The Pul-mor feature was added by Gilbert in order to increase the pulling power of locos. This was basically a marketing thing to do a one up on Lionel. It mainly consisted of the rubber bands on the drive wheels. It did increase pulling power, especially up grades. Lionel did, in fact, use the term Magna-traction for
>their means to increase the traction. Too bad the locos couldn't just use operating sanders like the prototypes. After Lionel bought the rights to the Gilbert name and patents, they started using the Pul-mor terminology on their locos.
>
>Someone let me know if I goofed anywhere here.
>
>Roger Petrella
>Franktown, CO
>
>
>Neil Trump wrote:
>
>>I see people refer to AF loco's as having the Pull-Mor feature, yet I am a bit confused as to ''what is' Pull-Mor on an engine.
>>
>>I always thought that this feature applied to the rubber bonded on the wheels to give better traction, but others seem to apply this feature to the motors. My problem with people making reference to the motors being Pull-Mor is that basically the motor design hardly changed at all, so for me it must refer to the wheels.
>>
>>Now we all know that those 'L' people stole this named feature from the Flyer range and applied it to their main 'O' gauge line to describe motors. I'm sure I have seen 'L' describe loco's with can motors and the old style open frame motors as having Pull-Mor which makes it even more confusing.
>>
>>With regards to copyright etc. are 'L' actually using this name when the patent office may actually have it described as something else?
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Neil T.
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>>All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>>
>>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>>
>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21180 From: David Dewey Date: 9/24/2002
Subject: Re: What actually is the definition of 'Pull-Mor'?
This is from my head, during lunchtime (No Funnel Cakes here, so I might be
way off!).
Pullmor was the vulcanized rubber tread wheels (until late in production
when ACG went to grooved wheels with "rubber bands." As was pointed out, the
steamer motors went through a design change too, which is visible by looking
at the armature. We nowadays call the variations "pre-pullmor" and "pullmor"
because the change occured at the same time. I don't know if ACG ever used
that designation. The difference is in the "core." If you look at a "pre"
motor, the core has wider gaps between the poles, and you can see a lot of
the windings, a "pullmor" motor, the gaps are much narrower, and you can't
see much of the windings. A similar change happened to the diesel armatures
too, but they have many more design variations, including field sizes.
BTW, the steamer motors also have quite a few variations, but most of the
oddball ones are rather scarce, including the DC armature.
Bill's book covers the mechanical details, for some of us it is a really
good read, and great reference. Others may be entirely bored by this all. .
. . .
S'
David D.
Where's the funnel cake???? Hmm, tuna salad and a peach. . . .
Group: S-Trains Message: 21181 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 9/24/2002
Subject: S-West IV
Hi guys,

I get to go to S-West in Stockton, CA! I got the days off at work, my wife
has found me a sweet deal on Amtrack, and now all I need is a place to stay.
Does anyone want to share a room? or better yet does anyone have a floor I
can camp on Thursday and Friday nights? The VW bus is too slow to get there
and get back in time.

Jacques in Yakima
Group: S-Trains Message: 21182 From: Roger Delthony Date: 9/24/2002
Subject: Boston area AF dealers
Two years ago there was a train store in Peabody, MA (north suburb of
Boston). In June of that year they didn't have much Flyer, but they had
the previous year's Lionel/Flyer Christmas boxcar for $10-$15 off the
original price.

Roger Delthony
Group: S-Trains Message: 21183 From: Joseph Haughney Date: 9/24/2002
Subject: Re: Boston area AF dealers
Northeast Trains on Mainstreet in Peabody is still there. It is
primarily a O guage operation. However, it does have good deals on MTH
accessories and gets in the Lionel AF at list if you order it.
Occasionally, if your lucky they have some AF in one their display
cases. I've got some good stuff there at reasonable prices after some
negotiations.

Its sort of like the old Filene's basement. The good buys in suits and
men's clothing where for those who could go there once or twice a week
during their lunch time.

Regads,
Joe H
Group: S-Trains Message: 21184 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 9/25/2002
Subject: Re: What actually is the definition of 'Pull-Mor'?
Is there a listing of the different configurations of the PA type armatures.
I have three different lengths of windings. Doug rewound one for me and he
said he hadn't seen one that was as long. It is in a dual motor SF engine.
Very interesting

Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: David Dewey [mailto:djdewey@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 4:28 PM
To: 'Rick Evans'; Stoudt,Kenneth R.
Cc: S-Trains
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] What actually is the definition of 'Pull-Mor'?


This is from my head, during lunchtime (No Funnel Cakes here, so I might be
way off!).
Pullmor was the vulcanized rubber tread wheels (until late in production
when ACG went to grooved wheels with "rubber bands." As was pointed out, the
steamer motors went through a design change too, which is visible by looking
at the armature. We nowadays call the variations "pre-pullmor" and "pullmor"
because the change occured at the same time. I don't know if ACG ever used
that designation. The difference is in the "core." If you look at a "pre"
motor, the core has wider gaps between the poles, and you can see a lot of
the windings, a "pullmor" motor, the gaps are much narrower, and you can't
see much of the windings. A similar change happened to the diesel armatures
too, but they have many more design variations, including field sizes.
BTW, the steamer motors also have quite a few variations, but most of the
oddball ones are rather scarce, including the DC armature.
Bill's book covers the mechanical details, for some of us it is a really
good read, and great reference. Others may be entirely bored by this all. .
. . .
S'
David D.
Where's the funnel cake???? Hmm, tuna salad and a peach. . . .


+

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 21185 From: mlmarmer Date: 9/25/2002
Subject: Re: Boston area AF dealers
Roger,

That is North East trains.

They had a allot of re-painted AF cars at the shop which I picked up a few.

2 cabooses and 2 reefers Nicely down and reasonable. But that was in
1993, however!

And some building kits or completely assembled by someone in S.

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Delthony" <rpd5@...>
To: "S-Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 12:27 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Boston area AF dealers


> Two years ago there was a train store in Peabody, MA (north suburb of
> Boston). In June of that year they didn't have much Flyer, but they had
> the previous year's Lionel/Flyer Christmas boxcar for $10-$15 off the
> original price.
>
> Roger Delthony
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21186 From: TED R LARSON Date: 9/25/2002
Subject: Phun GN info
--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: gngoat@yahoogroups

Lindsay Korst asked:

> Hi GNGOATers...
>
> Okay, basic question for the diesel-gurus among us...
>
> Did the Great Northern F-7's (okay and P-7's) have dynamic brakes?...
________________________________________________________________________
Lindsay,

As a general rule (there are always exceptions), GN's freight F-units had
dynamic brakes, passenger F-units did not have dynamic brakes. Also, as
a
general rule, and there were numerous exceptions to this, freight F-units
had single headlights and passenger F-units had dual headlights.

Hope this is what you were looking for.

Cheers,
Kert Peterson

===============================
Subject: Re: Depot Colors

Goats:
For those of you who were discussing the colors of depots and
other line side buildings of the Great Northern, I have done some
research on this subject.

From Reference Sheet No. 135 of the Great Northern Railway
Historical Society, dated June 1988, I have found the following
information on page 7, lower right hand corner;

1. 1913. Corrspondence between GN personnel and R.C.
Stephens, Architect of the Frisco Lines indicate that the "Frisco
Standard" was adopted about 1913 by the GN, consisting of a light
body with a dark olive trim.

2. 8-4-1918. Communication between Louis Hill to Ralph Budd
refers to a standard of "yellow-buff with green trim", confirming the
above mentioned light body with dark olive trim.

3. 10-18-1944. Communication from Frank Gavin to a stockholder
disclosed that colors for depot and section buildings had been a
light gray with lighter trim for some years.

4. 8-27-1968. Correspondance between J.W. Hayes and B.G.
Anderson, and between Robert Downing and Frank Perrin indicated
that the standard depot colors had been white body with green trim
for several years. Other sources indicate that this color scheme
came into use just after World War II.

So, depending on the time frame that you are modeling, these are
the colors you should use for your depots and section buildings of
the GN.

These reference sheets are well researched, commonly with
documentation by GN papers and correspondance between GN Ry
officers and employees. They are peer reviewed by a staff of GN
historians who know their stuff.

Reference sheets are an excellent source of accurate information
for modeling and other uses. It pays to hang onto the reference
sheets as they come out, keep them in a single collection and in
good order. Replacements are available for a while - but who
knows?

If you are not a GNRHS member, but a student or modeler of the
GN, this is an excellent reason to join and keep your membership
up to date. You'll never know what you might learn about the good
ol' GN from authoritative sources; the GN guys - the Goats!

George Maher
GNRHS member

====================================

Subject: On This Date

Dear Goats,

We all know the 3 named Locomotives of the GNRY, those being, the William
Crooks # 1, Hustle Muscle # 400 and finally Marathon # 2517.

It was on this date in 1925 that GN P-2 # 2517 made its famed Silk Train
run to St.Paul and then returned to Seattle on the Oriental Limited, thus
earning the name " Marathon."

One of Marathons sister engines is the one at Pasco, Washington, the #
2507...Bax...
Group: S-Trains Message: 21187 From: joeawood@aol.com Date: 9/25/2002
Subject: 3RD Annual Scalefest
Scalefest Model Train Show Sat 10/5/02 & Sun 10/6/02 To be held in Altoona
Pa during Railroaders Memorial Museum Railfest Jaffa Mosque Altoona PA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21188 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 9/25/2002
Subject: Re Pulmor definition.
David Dewey got it right.......

Steve
Group: S-Trains Message: 21189 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 9/25/2002
Subject: Train stuff
Hello gang
For anyone visiting the northern California area this coming weekend, you may
want to visit www.railtown1897.org and check out the coming Movie Railroad Days.
Over 200 railroad movies were made at this location. Also a good site for
other rail information and the Calif. State Railroad Meuseum.
Howard
_______________________________________________________________________
Internet Access, Shared & Dedicated Web Hosting.
Colocation and Domain Name Registration at http://www.lanset.net
Group: S-Trains Message: 21190 From: Ted Larson Date: 9/26/2002
Subject: Vintage Tractors
Here's current ERTL listings for tractors of the 40's, 50's, 60's

15217 JD 3pc Set (Styled B, G & H) '30's - early 50's
15216 JD 4010/4020/4320/4620 4pc Set 60's
JD 630 Tractor W/Picker & Wagon
14170 Farmall 856
14171 Farmall Super M Tractor
14073 Farmall 460 Tractor w/Mounted Picker & Flarebox Wagon
13051 Oliver 88 w/Mounted Picker & Flarebox Wagon
13052 MF 8280 Tractor w/Duals
13187 AC 4pc Tractor Set
13192 MF 4pc Tractor Set

I see additional vintage tractors at dealer's websites, such as
http://www.vankleyfarmtoys.com/newest.html
http://www.sprcollectibles.com/productCat0.ivnu

If you see a tractor that looks interesting and wish to know when the
prototype was produced, use your browser to find a web site for that
tractor.



=====
Ted Larson

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Group: S-Trains Message: 21191 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/26/2002
Subject: Pull-Mor
Lionel has the rights now to Pull-Mor and, since they no longer embed
permanent magnets in their power trucks, they might as well replace
"Magne-Traction" for good.

Pull-More Power was hyped as giving the ability to pull 40 or more cars. An
elephant was used in the red circle logo affixed to each catalog page.
Think of elephants, then think of Ferraris. Which one is faster? Which one
can pull more weight?

Side by side, my early die-cast 4 piece body 300 can run circles around my
late, one piece plastic 303. But the 303 can haul tons of cars.
Interesting, since the plastic engine is lighter, and should, therefore,
slip easier. But it's the earlier engine that will do all the slipping
under extreme load.

Rubber tires were added to Flyer engines, not as a competitive edge against
Lionels Magne-Traction, but as a solution to slippage under new conditions.
For steamers, it was lighter weight and for diesels, it was the brute force
of dual motors. The traction tire helped tame the tendency of kids to
overpower their engines and slip the wheels.

The motors themselves went through design changes at the same time, none of
which materially affected pulling performance. Some, like the angle slant
armature, were intended to provide smoother power application, but actually
had no measurable effect.

This next needs corroboration as it is a hypothesis I cannot prove with all
my trains in storage, however, if the gear ratio were changed so that the
engine did not run as fast, there would be a corresponding increase in
torque, or twisting power. This would result in slower, more powerful
locomotives using the same motors. To do this by changing the pinion gear,
however, would have required a major chassis rework, since the tooth spacing
is a constant as is the axle to worm shaft distance. Therefore, a different
diameter pinion would be out of the question. However, a simpler rework of
the worm gear to incorporate a double helix would halve the speed and double
the power. This would also explain the appearance of rubber tires, since,
with double the torque the engine would be twice as susceptible to slippage.

So check this on your so called "Pull-Mor" motors. How does the appearance
of the shaft worm stack up against the old "pre Pull-Mors". That would be
the big difference.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21192 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Re: ALL ORIGINAL AMERICAN FLYER SMOKE FLUID Item # 1769783426
Chris & others save your time & money as far as trying to reproduce this
fluid. I went through the whole thing. It has kerosene as the main ingr. at a
ratio of 17 parts kero. to 1 part cedar oil. It will run you out of your
train area. Some of you might remember my first tries with this. This is not
the better scented fluid we all remember.
In a semi blatant ad I do produce the better scented fluid. I have had the
fluid in this auction analyzed it is almost pure kerosene. If you have any
questions feel free to ask (Except for the mixture I use). I have sold over
700 bottles with only one request for a refund, I will refund your $$ if you
do not like it. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21193 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Re: ALL ORIGINAL AMERICAN FLYER SMOKE FLUID Item # 1769783426
Hey Norman:

How's it going down there? Any washouts on your layout as a result of
Isidore?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21194 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Re: ALL ORIGINAL AMERICAN FLYER SMOKE FLUID Item # 1769783426
Mike:
I only pointed it out as a joke. It was just od that there was an unopened
bottle of smoke on e-Bay.

BTW, there's kerosene and then there's kerosene. The stuff I get in the
hardware store is clean and odorless while the stuff from the gas station
pump is pretty raw and stinky.

I have some really pure cedar oil I bought in New Orleans. Are you saying
that 17 parts of the better kero to 1 part cedar is the equivalent of
Gilbert smoke fluid?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21195 From: rfgiardina Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Will the Real Original Formula Smoke Fluid Please Stand Up!
Actually there were several different formulas used by Gilbert from
1946 to 1966.

We were the first to duplicate the ORIGINAL 1946 formula. We had 3
samples analyzed in 1976, they were all different. However, Maury
Romer supplied me with a printed formula and an explanation of the
changes.

The ORIGINAL formula is NOT 17 parts kerosene to one part cedar wood
oil. In fact there are more than one type of cedar wood oil and
kerosene to begin with. If that were the ingredients and in that
ratio, we could sell it for a whole lot less than 2 oz. for $7.00.

In fact the major reason for one of the formula changes was that a
version of the formula that did have a very high amount of kerosene
(to reduce costs), had to be changed when Gilbert introduced plastic
steamer shells. Seems the high concentration of kerosene softened
and eat the plastic. At a ratio of 17 to 1, it is certain the same
thing will occur.

In later years, Gilbert added extenders and even later changed to a
nontoxic mineral oil base. Some of the erroneous formulas are a
result of using old samples to analyze. This is especially true with
the red capsules, as the gelatin in the capsule dissolves over time,
into the fluid. To get an accurate analysis, you have to have the
capsule analyzed as well.

Bob Giardina
Group: S-Trains Message: 21196 From: David Dewey Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Kerosene: WAS< ALL ORIGINAL AMERICAN FLYER SMOKE FLUID Item # 1769
Chris made a great point about the kerosene one buys today. Stanley Steam
Automobiles burned kerosene in a vaporizing burner, not unlike the old
Coleman camp stoves we remember fondly (??~!!!). Modern Kerosene does not
vaporize and burn correctly in the Stanley burner, so most Stanley owners
now burn a mix of regular (no-lead) gasoline and diesel motor fuel. The
quality of most kerosene degraded some in the late 'teens, and even more so
after the '50s.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21197 From: rfgiardina Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Re: Kerosene: WAS< ALL ORIGINAL AMERICAN FLYER SMOKE FLUID Item #
There are different types and grades of kerosene. Depending on were
you buy it you may not get what you really want. Gas stations,
hardware stores and chemical companies stock and sell kerosene for
different uses. You have to know what type you need.

Bob Giardina

--- In S-Trains@y..., "David Dewey" <djdewey@c...> wrote:
> Chris made a great point about the kerosene one buys today. Stanley
Steam
> Automobiles burned kerosene in a vaporizing burner, not unlike the
old
> Coleman camp stoves we remember fondly (??~!!!). Modern Kerosene
does not
> vaporize and burn correctly in the Stanley burner, so most Stanley
owners
> now burn a mix of regular (no-lead) gasoline and diesel motor fuel.
The
> quality of most kerosene degraded some in the late 'teens, and even
more so
> after the '50s.
> S'
> David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21198 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Smoke Fluids
I also had the type that came in the bottle analyzed. Very bad stuff. It
was at the 17:1 ratio The next was another that I got from R. Tufts Also 17:1
but used a kerosene made by Shell I can't remember the Exact name of it now.
I have tried others but not RFG's as yet. I use 15:1 mixture. But the Org was
17:1 As RFG stated there are also different types of cedar oil. this is a
VERY important part of the mix as in say coffee where it comes from does play
a BIG part in the end product.
Also as RFG has stated the cost is of the mixture would be lower if other
ingredients are used, But you will not have the desired results. Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21199 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Smoke Fluid PS
One of my first attempts was with a very high grade of kerosene that was
used for camping stove. It was about the best that I could find. It reacted
with the cedar oil in a very unpleasant way, as many of you that tried my
first 2-3 attempts. Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21200 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Re: Smoke Fluid PS
Mike has an excellent product IMHO.

It works extremely well and smell takes me back 50 Years to Christmas when
Dad would set up the Flyer set and run his K5.

I use it in all my AF steamers and have been very happy with it.
It is thin enough to wick up in older smoke units and doesn't leave any
residue.

You can try to homebrew your own, but why try to re-invent the wheel.

Carl

-----Original Message-----
From: anormal1@... [mailto:anormal1@...]
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 10:20 AM
To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Smoke Fluid PS


One of my first attempts was with a very high grade of kerosene that was
used for camping stove. It was about the best that I could find. It reacted
with the cedar oil in a very unpleasant way, as many of you that tried my
first 2-3 attempts. Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Group: S-Trains Message: 21201 From: john isn't eddie anymore Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Kerosene??-NOT!!!!!
Good morning ladies and germs:
This is from Andy Cewe, former A.C.Gilbert employee:
White paraffin, not kerosene, was the original base
for the smoke fluid. He says that there are a few high
test lamp oils that are white paraffin based, but
doubts that they will work as well. The cedar scent
was really cedar aromatics-and he doesn't remember the
source.-john marganski

__________________________________________________
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New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21202 From: rfgiardina Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Re: Kerosene??-NOT!!!!!
It occurs to me that even if ACG himself were to rise from the grave
and attest to any given fact, there would be those who would disagree.
Look on any of the white envelopes with a funnel and smoke capsule,
and you will see the words "contains kerosene".
I give up!!!

--- In S-Trains@y..., john isn't eddie anymore <druvnik@y...> wrote:
> Good morning ladies and germs:
> This is from Andy Cewe, former A.C.Gilbert employee:
> White paraffin, not kerosene, was the original base
> for the smoke fluid. He says that there are a few high
> test lamp oils that are white paraffin based, but
> doubts that they will work as well. The cedar scent
> was really cedar aromatics-and he doesn't remember the
> source.-john marganski
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 21203 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Smoke fluid...
Checked my old box, No. 23025 Smoke Cartridges, complete with dried up cartridges,....no mention of
ANY ingredients. Not toxic though!! Hmmmm.....:-)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21204 From: Paul Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Photo Gallery Moved
Hi All,
I moved the Photo Gallery to
http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/albums/view_album.php?set_albumName=modelrail

If you have the old location bookmarked, please update the bookmark.

Sure would love to see more of your pictures. The pictures that are
there are getting hundreds of viewers.
There is also a Slideshow option that is fun too.

You can also add a comment (or question) on any of the pictures that you
see.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21205 From: Rhett T. George Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: double helix worm
- Greeting`S' -

Chris Z asked a fine question regarding changes in gear ratio as the
number of threads on the worm is changed from one to four. The single
thread or helix meshed with a 24-tooth worm gear (wheel) gives a 24:1
ratio, speed cut by 24, torque on the worm wheel shaft multiplied by
24. The two thread worm and 24-tooth wheel (now with a different pitch
on the teeth) yields a 12:1 ratio, speed on wheel shaft divided by 12,
torque multiplied by 12. For three threads on the worm and a 24-tooth
wheel (still different pich), the ratio is 8:1. Four thread worm and
24 tooth wheel yields 6:1. So the biggest multiplier of torque is
gotten with the single thread worm. Due to a lot of sliding friction
between worm and worm wheel, the available torque may be only 90% of
that predicted by the ratio.

It is this friction which keeps the one and two thread worm and wheel
sets from allowing the drivers to be rotated except by rotating the
armature. Three thread sets are questionable. L used four thread worms
in the Pennsy turbine and the Berkshire so that the locomotive could
be pushed and have the drivers turn.

More than you wanted to know.

Cheer*S*
Rhett
Group: S-Trains Message: 21206 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, September 29, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page
http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21207 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Flyer flat car bodies wanted
Greetings all,

Anyone out there in flyer land have any kitbashable flat car bodies? I have
a couple of upper decks off of old lionel tri level auto carriers and I
thought that I would try to sretch a flyer deck for a lionel upper level.

So, if any has a couple, with or with out trucks, let me know.

Jeff Tangeman
Group: S-Trains Message: 21208 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Converting lionel trilevel racks to flyer compatable
Let me tell you this has been a work in progress...

My first attempt was to build a scale or pretty darn close two level auto
rack. I pretty much succeeded but...
the thing is almost too big even for standard flyer curves

back to the drawing board...

I am currently working on a more Flyer friendly model. I cut about 1/2 inch
off of each end (aside from tossing the third deck) so wnought of the
coupler sticks out. I am sticking PM trucks under it because, well, I have
extras.

My next attempt, which will be documented because I now have a digital
camera, will be to take everything I have learned the first two trys and
improve upon them.

I do wish that these auto racks were easier (and cheaper) to obtain:)

Jeff
Group: S-Trains Message: 21209 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Re: Smoke Fluid PS
Does anyone know what Bob Board uses in his "Super Smoke" smoke fluid? I
been using for many years and have sold a lot also. Everyone seems to think
it is very close to Gilbert's original smoke fluid.
Harwood
Group: S-Trains Message: 21210 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Re: Smoke Fluid PS
Harwood ,
Have you tried mine? Mike
I can sell you a 2oz bottle for $8.25 shipping included & if you don't
like it I'll send your $$ back Or I'll send you a bottle if you like it pay
me if not E-mail me & keep it. Mike
PS I have the best guarantee in the fluid BIZ, This applies to anyone
reading this post. No one else will stand behind their fluid like I will. I
know that it is a quality item & is just as good if not better than the org


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21211 From: jahoozdumm Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Re: Smoke Fluid PS
Harwood asked:

>Does anyone know what Bob Board uses in his "Super Smoke" smoke
>fluid? I been using for many years and have sold a lot also.
>Everyone seems to think it is very close to Gilbert's original smoke
>fluid.


Well, not "everyone." I may be stepping on toes here, but it's
unavoidable. Sorry. I will try to be gentle.

When I first tried Supersmoke, it kinda, sorta reminded me of Gilbert
#25 (the "non-toxic" Gilbert fluid.) SORTA, mind you, because I
hadn't smelled original Gilbert fluid for... oh, 23+ years. When I
did get my hands on some original stuff, filled an Atlantic smoke
unit with it, and inhaled the vapor, the memory of "trains of my
childhood" came roaring back with startling clarity. That's the main
difference between Supersmoke and Gilbert fluid: Supersmoke sorta
reminds me of Gilbert, Gilbert #25 transports me to Christmas 1958.

There are other differences. Supersmoke doesn't seem to "wick" as
well as Gilbert #25 (or as well as MTH fluid, or LGB fluid) and seems
to clog even fresh wicks after awhile. That's been my experience with
it, anyway.

Fact is, the only smoke fluid I've tried that is NOT superior to
Supersmoke is Life-Like fluid.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21212 From: Rick Evans Date: 9/27/2002
Subject: Super-Smoke
I don't think I like the Supersmoke either!!
I swear my hard smoking locos ain't the same!!


Rick.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21213 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 9/28/2002
Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#1771754893: MTH-AM FLYER 785
I saw this item for sale at eBay-AOL, The World's Online Marketplace TM, and thought that you might be interested.

Title of item: MTH-AM FLYER 785 COAL LOADER PULLEY
Seller: portlines
Starts: Sep-27-02 16:07:35 PDT
Ends: Oct-04-02 16:07:35 PDT
Price: Starts at $5.00
To bid on the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1771754893


Item Description:
Now you can speed up that SLOW 785 MTH Coal Loader ! DOUBLE its operating speed by replacing its brass pulley !
The photo below shows the ORIGINAL pulley on the left, and our REPLACEMENT brass pulley on the right. This is a simple upgrade, and you'll love the results!

Buyer pays only $1.00 extra for shipping cost. Payment by credit-card, check, or money-order, for immediate shipment. Personal check must clear (about 10 days) before shipment. Mass. residents must add 5% sales tax to final sales price. Item returnable within 7 days of receipt if not satisfied. Full refund, less shipping charges. Seller is TCA member 81-16386, and has 100% positive feedback record on EBAY.
We specialize in S gauge products and American Flyer repair parts. Parts Listing, and Sales Lists, available on our website.
www.portlines.com


On Sep-28-02 at 06:10:03 PDT, seller added the following information:






Pay me securely with any major credit card through PayPal!




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Group: S-Trains Message: 21214 From: frankphi Date: 9/28/2002
Subject: Old TV promo film
Does anyone remember an old toy trains shows that was aired on
Chicago TV around Christmas time in the mid to late 1950s?

I remember watching the show while visiting family in the Chicago
area. It was about either American Flyer or Lionel trains and
featured marionettes. It must have been a precursor to today's
infomercials, for the show lasted 30-60 minutes, as I recall.

I would sure like to see it again, if a copy is in existence.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21215 From: TED R LARSON Date: 9/28/2002
Subject: Vehicles
Saw some RC cars called the "Two Lane Series" at Target; $1.99 for the
'55 Chev, '70 Chevelle, and others.
There were RC "Entertainment Series" cars for $2.99. I bought a "Jimmy
Dean" black '49 Merc. Black was a common color back then because it held
its color, while other colors quickly degraded. The RC "50th Corvette
Anniversary" series has some nice models that appear to be S scale. It
was nice to find a hardtop sporty car, since most of the die cast sporty
cars are convertibles.

JL also came through with some vehicles that are not way undersize.
Their '55 T-bird looks right on for S scale. They have Dodge, Chev, and
Ford mid-70's van that look usable. Strangely, they are all slightly
different in size. The Dodge looks undersize. I would need to measure
the Ford and the Chev to tell you which of two is correct. I did not
have a scale with me to measure them, but I believe that these should be
6 foot wide. Perhaps someone can measure a real van and the JL models to
tell us which one is correct. These vans have changed very little in
many years, so measuring a current van should be accurate for the 70's
vans.

Target had closeout pricing on the Matchbox collector's series making
these close to price competitive with RC. I saw a '57 Ford convertible,
and a late '50's Cadillac sedan.

Ted Larson
Bright Ideas
http://iw.rtm.com/brightideas/default.asp

________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21216 From: Steve Blancard Date: 9/28/2002
Subject: Re: Smoke Fluid PS
I've been using Anormal1's fluid for about 9 months now and am extremely pleased with
it. So much so that when my 2 oz bottle ran low I ordered a big 8 oz bottle. Its
the best stuff around as far as I'm concerned.

Steve Blancard
"Where there's smoke there's Flyer!"

anormal1@... wrote:

> Harwood ,
> Have you tried mine? Mike
> I can sell you a 2oz bottle for $8.25 shipping included & if you don't
> like it I'll send your $$ back Or I'll send you a bottle if you like it pay
> me if not E-mail me & keep it. Mike
> PS I have the best guarantee in the fluid BIZ, This applies to anyone
> reading this post. No one else will stand behind their fluid like I will. I
> know that it is a quality item & is just as good if not better than the org
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21217 From: Jim Schiele Date: 9/29/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1596
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 11:06:50 PDT
> From: HOwingsiii@...
> Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#1771754893: MTH-AM FLYER
785 COAL LOADER PULLEY
>
> I saw this item for sale at eBay-AOL, The World's Online Marketplace TM,
and thought that you might be interested.
>
> Title of item: MTH-AM FLYER 785 COAL LOADER PULLEY
> Seller: portlines
> Starts: Sep-27-02 16:07:35 PDT
> Ends: Oct-04-02 16:07:35 PDT
> Price: Starts at $5.00
> To bid on the item, go to:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1771754893
>
>
> Item Description:
> Now you can speed up that SLOW 785 MTH Coal Loader ! DOUBLE its operating
speed by replacing its brass pulley !
> The photo below shows the ORIGINAL pulley on the left, and our REPLACEMENT
brass pulley on the right. This is a simple upgrade, and you'll love the
results!
>
> Buyer pays only $1.00 extra for shipping cost. Payment by credit-card,
check, or money-order, for immediate shipment. Personal check must clear
(about 10 days) before shipment. Mass. residents must add 5% sales tax to
final sales price. Item returnable within 7 days of receipt if not
satisfied. Full refund, less shipping charges. Seller is TCA member
81-16386, and has 100% positive feedback record on EBAY.
> We specialize in S gauge products and American Flyer repair parts. Parts
Listing, and Sales Lists, available on our website.
> www.portlines.com
>
I got this pully from Portlines and it works great.

Jim Schiele
Group: S-Trains Message: 21218 From: Mark Preman Date: 9/29/2002
Subject: 1950's American Flyer TV Shows
Sorry, blatant add. I have the videos you are looking
for on my website. Go to
http://www.americanflyertrains.com and click on the
video button.
Mark

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21219 From: Tom Rolfsmeyer Date: 9/29/2002
Subject: Chat
Guys I will not be at chat tonight have a good friend who is having a
party tonight, so have a good time and enjoy the transfer of knowlege
that so often happens at chat.

Tom Rolfsmeyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 21220 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 9/29/2002
Subject: MTH Coal Loader Pulley
The pulley to increase the speed of the MTH Coal
Loaders is readily from PortLines Hobbies, as well as
Joe's Train Repair. Cost is $5.95 and comes with
complete instructions for replacement.

Joe


=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 21221 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 9/29/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, September 29, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page
http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21222 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 9/30/2002
Subject: Need Steve's last name
I am sending a package. I need Steve's last name for the mailing label.

Steve is also known as:
* Boss31@...
* One of the two 'S' in S-n-S trains.

Thorin



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21223 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 9/30/2002
Subject: Re: Need Steve's last name
Thanks to all that responded.

Steve's last name is "Blackburn".

Thorin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marty.Thorin
> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 9:21 AM
> To: S-Scale (E-mail); 'S-Trains (E-mail); 'boss31@...'
> Subject: Need Steve's last name
>
> I am sending a package. I need Steve's last name for the mailing label.
>
> Steve is also known as:
> * Boss31@...
> * One of the two 'S' in S-n-S trains.
>
> Thorin
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21224 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 9/30/2002
Subject: New Hope (PA) Train Show
Does anyone know anything about the regular train
shows held at the New Hope Eagle Fire Company in New
Hope, PA? I am going to be in the area this weekend
and wonder if the show scheduled for Sunday, October
6th from 9 a.m. until noon is worth attending.

Thanks,
Joe

=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 21225 From: eric.reis Date: 9/30/2002
Subject: Rolling stock for sale.
I have 3 American Models streamline passenger cars for sale.

Union Pacific Combine, Sleeper, and Coach.

They are all very clean externally and have original boxes.

When you look closely they do have some glue stains on the inside of the
plastic windows. The sleeper is missing 3 windows.

I am looking for $45 each or all 3 for $125 for the set.


I have an American models Amtrak boxcar which was made to go with the
superliner sets, highrail, knuckle couplers. $35


I have an S helper service DGRW Stock Car in black #00052. $30

Thank you


Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa. 98011
Group: S-Trains Message: 21226 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 10/1/2002
Subject: Re: NEW HOPE (PA) TRAIN SHOW
Hi Joe,

I have been there once. They have mostly
used HO and some magazines for
sale. Wasn't worth the trip. If you are
in the area look me up and I can take
you to some of our club members layouts.

Glenn



Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 13:32:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joseph Haenn <joestrainrepair@...>
Subject: New Hope (PA) Train Show

Does anyone know anything about the regular train
shows held at the New Hope Eagle Fire Company in New
Hope, PA? I am going to be in the area this weekend
and wonder if the show scheduled for Sunday, October
6th from 9 a.m. until noon is worth attending.

Thanks,
Joe
Group: S-Trains Message: 21227 From: Ted Larson Date: 10/1/2002
Subject: HELP
Dear S-Trains Members,

The list moderators need your help. Almost DAILY for several months,
the s-trains-owner@yahoogroups address is receiving e-mail notes that
have a virus infected attachment. Somebody has a virus!

If you don't have anti-virus software on your computer, please get it
and keep it updated. If you have anti-virus software, make sure that
you update it weekly.

I have heard many reports of people thinking that they are updating
their anti-virus files but the files don't get updated. Check the
PROPERTIES section of your computer to verify that the update is
recent. If you don't know how to do this, in fairness to everybody in
your address book, you need to learn or have a shop do it. This might
cost you a few bucks, but when you don't know how to do something on
your car, you pay to have it done. You need to do the same with your
computer.

The virus infected notes look like they might be from the KLEZ virus,
which sends out virus infected messages without you knowing about it!
EVERYBODY, go to the website for your anti-virus software and read
their information about the KLEZ virus. For some anti-virus software
you must take special action to detect KLEZ on your computer.

If you want to make yourself less vulnerable to viruses don't use
Micro-soft Outlook e-mail software, because many viruses are written
specifically to attach Outlook. Use your browser to read reviews about
other e-mail software such as Netscape Messenger.

Finally, if you don't need to be sending messages to the
s-trains-owner, delete that address from your address book so that
virus messages can't be sent to us. If you need the address in the
future, you can always get it from the S-trains website.

Thanks

=====
Ted Larson

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 21228 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/1/2002
Subject: Re: HELP
Hi All,

To find out if your computer is infected with a virus that sends out email from your address book, try this: Make a bogus address entry in your address book (something like aazzz@fff). It is undeliverable and will bounce back to you. That is your clue that a virus has been trying to send out email from your address book.

Later,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Ted Larson
To: Trains S
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] HELP


Dear S-Trains Members,

The list moderators need your help. Almost DAILY for several months,
the s-trains-owner@yahoogroups address is receiving e-mail notes that
have a virus infected attachment. Somebody has a virus!

If you don't have anti-virus software on your computer, please get it
and keep it updated. If you have anti-virus software, make sure that
you update it weekly.

I have heard many reports of people thinking that they are updating
their anti-virus files but the files don't get updated. Check the
PROPERTIES section of your computer to verify that the update is
recent. If you don't know how to do this, in fairness to everybody in
your address book, you need to learn or have a shop do it. This might
cost you a few bucks, but when you don't know how to do something on
your car, you pay to have it done. You need to do the same with your
computer.

The virus infected notes look like they might be from the KLEZ virus,
which sends out virus infected messages without you knowing about it!
EVERYBODY, go to the website for your anti-virus software and read
their information about the KLEZ virus. For some anti-virus software
you must take special action to detect KLEZ on your computer.

If you want to make yourself less vulnerable to viruses don't use
Micro-soft Outlook e-mail software, because many viruses are written
specifically to attach Outlook. Use your browser to read reviews about
other e-mail software such as Netscape Messenger.

Finally, if you don't need to be sending messages to the
s-trains-owner, delete that address from your address book so that
virus messages can't be sent to us. If you need the address in the
future, you can always get it from the S-trains website.

Thanks

=====
Ted Larson

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21229 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 10/1/2002
Subject: Wheel spacing
Greetings to all! Looking specifically at rolling stock, AF, and need to
know the distance between the inside flanges of the wheels. Measuring a
number of wheelsets, I come up with 47/64". Is this number close? Thanks
for any help you can provide. Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 21230 From: David Dewey Date: 10/1/2002
Subject: Re: Wheel spacing
Charlie,
My information is 11/16" so you are very close!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21231 From: jahoozdumm Date: 10/1/2002
Subject: Wheel spacing
Charlie asked;

>Looking specifically at rolling stock, AF, and need to know the
>distance between the inside flanges of the wheels. Measuring a
>number of wheelsets, I come up with 47/64". Is this number close?


AF back-to-back wheel spacing will vary depending on the vintage of
the wheels. Generally, earlier wheels seem to have thinner flanges
than later wheels, allowing more inside clearance (assuming the
actual gauge is correct.) If you compare closely the wheels of
Gilbert rolling stock made over 20 years, you'll notice several
design changes in the wheel molds. Also, as the molds began to wear
out, wheel trueness got kind of inconsistent, making accurate
measurements a problem.

I tend to prefer adjusting the wheel gauge by setting the outside of
the flange to leave just a slight amount of play between the flanges
and the rails when the wheelset is riding precisely gauged track. The
amount of play I end up with tends to be less than the factory
allowed. I let the back-to-back clearance fall where it will.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21232 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/2/2002
Subject: virii
Ted:
Klez does not work the way you think it does. The e-mails you are getting
are probably coming from someone who knows someone who is on the list. The
list member himself may not have a virus. The worst spreaders of the
contagion are people who forward jokes or sad stories. Klez hitches rides
on the convoluted address strings generated there.

The weakness in Outlook Express is that it adds to your address book anyone
to whom you send a reply using the "Reply" button. Otherwise, OE is a great
program. You can shut that feature off. I use OE and I have it strip all
attachments while they are still on the server and then ID them for me.
That is also an option.

There is a Klez sensing tool available through PC World.com. It is free and
will find and remove Klez from your computer in about ten minutes. I have
used it and my box came up clean.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21233 From: Scott Holm Date: 10/2/2002
Subject: Re: virii
I also read a description of the klez virus that said that klez looks
for email addresses in files to use for the spoofing, so removing names
from address books is not enough. You would have to remove every file
on your PC that contains e-mail addresses and that would include
received e-mails. I don't think most people would want to delete all
their e-mails.


__________________________________________________
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New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 21234 From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Date: 10/2/2002
Subject: AF 3/16" O cars
Can anyone tell me if the American Flyer 3/16" O gauge train cars are
the same physical size as the S gauge ones? I know the trucks would
need to be changed out to run on Flyer S track.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21235 From: jack nichol Date: 10/2/2002
Subject: 24933 Set?
Can anyone let me know if there was a Flyer set #24933? If so, what were
its contents and what's the present value?

I don't have set information in my guide. Time to get a new guide. Any
suggestions on a good AF set guide?

Thanks much all!

trainspeak



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 21236 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 10/2/2002
Subject: 751-house
Greetings to all! Have repaired and repainted a badly damaged "house" for
the 751 log loader. Need to paint the red trim ... have done some
experimenting with how, but can't seem to come up with real good results.
Does anyone in the group have a suggestion? It is working well, with help
from our group, looks good to this point and I want to try to finish it in
"style". Thanks and best wishes, Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 21238 From: jahoozdumm Date: 10/2/2002
Subject: Re: AF 3/16" O cars
Roger asked:

>Can anyone tell me if the American Flyer 3/16" O gauge train cars are
>the same physical size as the S gauge ones?


Yeah, I can.





:^)






Oh, you want the answer! Ok. as to freight cars, yes, the S gauge
cars that had 3/16" scale 0 gauge ancestors are the same size as
those ancestors. On some, such as the sheet metal flats, #716 side-
dump hopper, and auto unloaders, the bolster was redesigned
(deepened) in the early '50s to accomodate sintered iron trucks.
Essentially though, the dies used were the same.

As to the passenger cars, I don't own any of the diecast metal
heavyweights, but I've seen them. They appear to be the same length
as the postwar plastic heavies. The bolsters of the prewar cars may
be a different distance from the ends than those of the postwar cars.

Sadly, the sheet metal coaches were not carried into the postwar
line. It's a simple conversion to fit prewar coaches with S gauge
trucks.



Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21239 From: Ted Larson Date: 10/3/2002
Subject: module legs
http://www.gatewaynmra.org/articles/ho-module.htm
Interesting module leg idea

Other reference articles that may be of interest to S scale modelers
http://www.gatewaynmra.org/library.htm

Ted Larson
On-Line Calculators and References
http://www.1728.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21240 From: joeawood@aol.com Date: 10/3/2002
Subject: Layouts&show
Altoona Pa October 5&6 The Largest display of operating layouts on the east coast 5 layouts operating S ,O, O two Rail Ho 1/4 guage live steam operating. E-8s pulling passengers between Harrisburg & Pittsburg Excursions around the Horseshoe curve. Alto Model Train Museum Inc. ScaleFest Train show & sale. Railroaders Memorial Museum Railfest One Huge Train weekend in Altoona Pa. TRAINS EVERWHERE!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21241 From: Tom Pennington Date: 10/3/2002
Subject: 5107W SF DIESEL FREIGHT SET
Anyone know what the contents of this set are, and what year(s) it was made?
Thanks,
Tom
Group: S-Trains Message: 21242 From: David Date: 10/3/2002
Subject: Re: 5107W SF DIESEL FREIGHT SET
Hi Tom, with sets made before the 5 digit changeover, the first two
digits define the year. This set is a 1951 set, and contained the
following:

360-364 Santa Fe Alco Diesels with horn control
734 Operating Box Car
631 T&P Gondola
636 Erie Spool Flat
630 Reading Caboose

Basic circle of track with track clip.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21243 From: garydmccullah Date: 10/3/2002
Subject: For Sale
Due to a re-evaluation of goals and a lack of space, I have the
following Hi-Rail items for sale. I will accept any reasonable offer.

1 each New York Central Heavyweight Baggage/RPO, Coach, Observation
prefer to sell as three car set, might sell separately

1 Lionel AF NYC Hopper

1 Lionel AF Southern Hopper

1 Lionel AF UP Covered Hopper

I might consider trades.

I have several scale items for sale. They are on the S Scale list.

Gary McCullah
Group: S-Trains Message: 21244 From: jack nichol Date: 10/3/2002
Subject: Re: 24933 Set?
I was emailed by a friend that a friend of his had a Flyer set #24933. I
didn't think there was a 24933 hence my email to you all.

I have asked him to take a better look at the number or to get the component
numbers and get back to me. Once he does, I'll let you all know what it is.

Thanks for your responses!


>From: "jack nichol" <trainspeak@...>
>CC: s-trains@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [S-Trains] 24933 Set?
>Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 16:40:08 +0000
>
>Can anyone let me know if there was a Flyer set #24933? If so, what were
>its contents and what's the present value?
>
>I don't have set information in my guide. Time to get a new guide. Any
>suggestions on a good AF set guide?
>
>Thanks much all!
>
>trainspeak
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
>s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




_________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21245 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/3/2002
Subject: Re: AF 3/16" O cars
Roger asks:
>Can anyone tell me if the American Flyer 3/16" O gauge train cars are
>the same physical size as the S gauge ones? I know the trucks would
>need to be changed out to run on Flyer S track.

Yes, they are. In many cases, they are the same cars. Diecast and stamped
metal were replaced by plastic after the switch to S, but the dimensions are
the same. That's why they are 3/16th. scale.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21246 From: aglorince Date: 10/3/2002
Subject: train show cleveland, oh
`div 4, mcr, nmra has their annual carnival of model railroading at
cuyahoga county fair grounds sat oct 5 10-5, sun oct 6 11-4.

i will be there with my american models stock. Cuyahoga vally s
gaugers usually have all their module layouts at the show.

andy lorince
Group: S-Trains Message: 21247 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 10/3/2002
Subject: Truck rivets and eyelets question for L-Flyer trucks
I borrowed for the local library a Greenberg Lionel book with all of the
L-Flyer cars broken into exploded views and lists of L-flyer part numbers.

What I cannot figure out is the truck eyelet numbers
SE 65, SE 67, SE 69 and the like. I cannot find any listing for these part
numbers. I have one cut rivet from a L-Flyer flat car the I repainted that
has a 1/4 inch shaft

What I am wondering is where I can get these L-Flyer eyelets or can I get
away with using pikemaster eyelets that I see listed in the train repair
parts catalog that I have.

If all else fails, I have a 3/16 brass tube and my handy brake line tube
flairer.

Jeff Tangrman
Group: S-Trains Message: 21248 From: Ted Larson Date: 10/4/2002
Subject: tractor steering wheels
http://www.cdmodels.com/partsacc.htm
Somebody asked about tractor steering wheels.
They are listed in the webpage above.
SP84 Steering wheel $1.00
Unfortunately, no photo or drawing.

At
http://www.cdmodels.com/misc.htm
there is another steering wheel
46) Steering Wheel $.75
http://www.cdmodels.com/jpg/fp46.jpg
I don't know what the difference is.


The page also lists 6 and 8 cylinder motors.
Could be useful.


Mike G., add this site to the S scale vendors list?



=====
Ted Larson

__________________________________________________
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New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21249 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 10/4/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, October 6, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page
http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21250 From: Walt Danylak Date: 10/5/2002
Subject: Re: AF 3/16" O cars
--- In S-Trains@y..., "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@i...> wrote:
Can anyone tell me if the American Flyer 3/16" O gauge train cars are
the same physical size as the S gauge ones? I know the trucks would
need to be changed out to run on Flyer S track.

Roger,
As others have said, yes they are. The best of the 3/16" O gauge cars,
I think, are the diecast ones. The box car, stock car, tank car,
hopper, crane and heavyweight passenger cars are basically the same
cars carried over to S gauge. The caboose, based on either a PRR or
NH prototype, and the gondola, loosely based on the USRA gondola, are
totally different from any car Gilbert offered in S gauge.

Walt Danylak
Group: S-Trains Message: 21251 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 10/5/2002
Subject: New products from S-'n-S
Hi everybody,
We will be showing three new products at the S-West IV get together in
Stockton.
First will be the Diesel can motor conversion for American Flyer Alcos and
Geeps. Second is a single target S-scale signal light that has a three color
LED. It is modeled after a common older UP one that is still found in use
today. Third is a S-scale 24 ft. telephone pole complete with insulators that
can be wired. If I can figure out how to post pictures of these to the lists
site we will do so. We are going to have demo models of both speed Steam Loco
can motors for comparison for those of you that have not seen them yet. We
will have some five video sets of the "S-Gauge Model Railroading" series on
hand as well. We are looking forward to Stockton and will have Jess Bennett
in tow. Don't miss the opportunity to chat with this 88 yr. old S-scaler
supreme. He is just full of stories that can mesmerize you.

Regards to all. Hope to meet a lot of you there....Steve & Sam
Group: S-Trains Message: 21252 From: Gerry Evans Date: 10/5/2002
Subject: Cleaning House
As I doubt I will ever get around to completing these engines, I thought I'd offer them to someone who might want to take shot at building a brass engine. The original source for these kits is the old S Scale Loco and Supply of St. Louis when the company was still owned by Claud Wade. I would hate to see these kits become part of an estate sale sometime in the future.

These are S scale. I will not piece-out either engine as I feel there is some historic significance associated with the kits. These kits are no longer available and probably won't be for the foreseeable future. To avoid shipping charges, I plan to attend the S West IV in Stockton, CA October 24-26 and can make the kits available then.

Kit #1:
Alco C&O K-3 Heavy Mike 2-8-2 with a Vandy Tender. Includes complete instructions for engine and tender. Also includes SSL&S Parts Instruction Book which gives generic instructions for engine and tender construction. Drive wheels are quartered, run-in with side rods attached, and mounted in the brass frame. No other work has been done on this engine. All parts as originally packed by SSL&S included--a total engine and tender assembly. Asking $500 plus shipping.

Kit #2:
Nickel Plate S-3 Berkshire 2-8-4 with tender. Includes complete instructions for engine. Also includes SSL&S Parts Instruction Book which gives generic instructions for engine and tender construction. Drive wheels are quartered, run-in with side rods attached, and mounted in the brass frame. Engine construction is about one-third complete including boiler with cab attached, pilot assembly, trucks, compressor shield, and other sub assemblies. Tender is untouched. All parts as originally packed by SSL&S included--a total engine and tender assembly. Asking $600 plus shipping.

Please contact me off-list at either cujoacat@... or 928-214-9054.

Gerry Evans


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21253 From: Tom Pennington Date: 10/5/2002
Subject: Single motor Alco diesels
Question for the group: Are the frames used in the single motor PA units
(such as 472, 466) the same
as those used in the dual motor units? If so, how difficult is it to
convert to a dual motor unit? Also, how do the single motor units pull in
comparison to the dual motor ones. Thanks, Tom


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21254 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 10/5/2002
Subject: Re: New products from S-'n-S
Steve and Sam,

Please put up any pictures for these items. I've got a EP-5 chassis with
kitbashed shell on it just waiting for your repower diesel units. And the
3-lite semiphore, tele-poles sound great. Ready to order, ---- Steve J.
NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 21255 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/5/2002
Subject: Re: Single motor Alco diesels
--- Tom Pennington <tjpennington@...> wrote:
<snip>
> convert to a dual motor unit? <snip>

See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/trump/trump1.html
for a dual motored AF 370 GP7.


=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21256 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/5/2002
Subject: single motor Alco diesels
Three digit single motor and double motor Alco frames are not the same.
The single motor three digit PA's used frame part #PA12B059 which holds the
power truck in the front, while the rear is flat and does not allow room
por a second power truck. The double motor Alcos used frame 11452-B which
of course has room for two power trucks.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21257 From: Al Reibel Date: 10/5/2002
Subject: Diesel number boards
Are there still number boards available for
the 372 Diesels? Or does anyone reproduce them?
I have a friend that needs one, and I can't find them
in my "usual" catalogs.
Thanks!
Al Reibel
Group: S-Trains Message: 21258 From: Doug Peck Date: 10/6/2002
Subject: Re: Number boards
<<<Are there still number boards available for
the 372 Diesels? Or does anyone reproduce them?>>>

We have 'em in stock.

Port Lines is an all S-gauge/S-scale shop. We do not deal significantly with
any other scales.
We also do AF-only repairs.
Our complete catalog of American Flyer Repair & Restoration Parts is
available for $5.00 postpaid.
Our Parts Listing is also available on our website, as is our current
inventory of used American Flyer equipment, and new American Models and
S-Helper Service equipment.
Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours - Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays: 2-5 PM (EST), and 7-9 PM.
Saturdays: 2-5 PM.
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please.)
Website: www.portlines.com
E-mail: doug@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 21259 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 10/6/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1603
O gage cars:
The die cast cars are so heavy that a full set of cars can't be pulled
with the loco. My 4-8-4 just sets and spins it's wheels, I had to make a
( glue a neoprene strip ) traction tire for the wheel, now it runs ok &
pulls it's consist of cars.

Jerry 77-11644

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21260 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 10/6/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, October 6, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page
http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21261 From: Paul Date: 10/6/2002
Subject: [Fwd: NASG Elections]From Jamie Bothwell
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21262 From: Paul Date: 10/6/2002
Subject: NASG Elections from Jamie Bothwell
Here is a note from Jamie Bothwell about NASG Elections.

Hi All,
It is once again time for me to put on my NASG Elections Committee
Chairman hat, and those of you who know me know I love a crazy hat! We
need
people willing to step forward and help the organization. This year we
are
voting for Secretary, Treasurer, and the three Regional Vice
Presidents. Any
member can run, and believe me you are all qualified, so don't try to
use
that excuse. At this time I have only two nominations. Send
nominations to
me. My e-mail address is mrbarker@... or you can send hard mail to
Jamie
Bothwell, 1422 W. North St., Bethlehem, PA 18018-3409. Nominations
should
include a bio of 200 words or less, and you can nominate yourself. Now
is
the time to step forward and take a hand in helping the organization.
Thank you for your time.
Jamie
Group: S-Trains Message: 21263 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 10/6/2002
Subject: New products photos
We have send Paul Yorke some pictures of the new 3 color signals and
telephone/power poles that we are manufacturing. If you want we can email
them direct to anyone interested along with a price list.
Regards to all...Steve & Sam
Group: S-Trains Message: 21264 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 10/6/2002
Subject: LOG CAR???
Can anyone give me the # of a log unloading car? It has a black base with
yellow tilting bed. Link couplers no # & has American Flyer Lines on the top
of the base @ each end in white lettering. It also takes the special rail
section to operate....Thank You.
Also thanks to all that ordered smoke fluid off the last thread.

Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21265 From: gino restivo Date: 10/6/2002
Subject: Re: LOG CAR???
easy one , it # 717

-----Original Message-----
From: anormal1@... <anormal1@...>
To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, October 06, 2002 9:59 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] LOG CAR???


> Can anyone give me the # of a log unloading car? It has a black base with
>yellow tilting bed. Link couplers no # & has American Flyer Lines on the
top
>of the base @ each end in white lettering. It also takes the special rail
>section to operate....Thank You.
> Also thanks to all that ordered smoke fluid off the last thread.
>
> Mike S.
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

-------------------------------------------
Introducing NetZero Long Distance
Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month!
Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 21266 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 10/6/2002
Subject: 717 Thank You
Thank You for the #717 log unloading car, Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21267 From: Don Thompson Date: 10/7/2002
Subject: Re: Test
Don Thompson
Group: S-Trains Message: 21268 From: Roy Hoffman Date: 10/7/2002
Subject: New website features
Hi Folks,

I've been working to add two new features to http://www.s-
scaletrains.com.

1- A compilation of hobby shops across the land who stock some kind
of S scale. The list was culled from the dealer lists at the AM and
SHS websites as well as some tips I got on the S-Trains list when a
modeler asked for hobby shops in the Boston area. I was amazed and
pleased at the large number of dealers that AM and SHS have built up
over the years. It would be great to add more so I'll be kicking off
an "S Friendly Hobby Shop" campaign. I wrote about it in the next
Dispatch. There are shops in 40 of the 50 states, so we can try to
target the 10 who don't have any listed dealers. They are: OR, NV,
MT, WY, ND, SD, LA, KY, MS and VT. I hope you can look the list over
and make some suggestions. I'll be trying to add email addresses and
websites to the list in the future, but obviously that will take some
time. It's at www.s-scaletrains.com/sfriendly or go to www.s-
scaletrains.com and click on "S Friendly Hobby Shops".

2- I'm putting together an on-line "Buyer's Guide" based on the NASG
brochure, past MRN S-Curves columns and other sources. Once again, I
hope I get plenty of input from all of you folks. It's at
http://www.s-scaletrains.com/sbuyer or go to www.s-scaletrains.com
and click on "S Scale Buyer's Guide".

My site is only one of many good ones that our scale has and I feel
that the internet is extremely important in promoting S in the 2000's.

Thanks,
Roy
Group: S-Trains Message: 21269 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/7/2002
Subject: Another Server Move
If you have links (bookmarks or favorites) to my newer (not Trainweb)
websites,
please update the links.
MY offshore ISP has moved their servers to San Fran , in hopes of
providing a better service.
http://66.111.44.40/~pyorke/sscale/
http://s-scale.org (should work after the dust settles)
Albums are at http://66.111.44.40/~pyorke/albums/ or s-scale.org/albums/
Chat is http://66.111.44.40/~pyorke/forum/ or s-scale.org/forum/

If you uploaded any pictures over the weekend , or added comments, you
might want to revisit the sites.

If you are tired of this type of note, I'm sorry.

Please let me know if you see any malfunctions.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21270 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/7/2002
Subject: Re: New products photos
The Pictures are available at
http://66.111.44.40/~pyorke/albums/view_album.php?set_albumName=album32
or
http://s-scale.org/albums/view_album.php?set_albumName=album32
--- boss31@... wrote:
> We have send Paul Yorke some pictures of the new 3
> color signals and
> telephone/power poles that we are manufacturing. If
> you want we can email
> them direct to anyone interested along with a price
> list.
> Regards to all...Steve & Sam
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories
> too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 21271 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 10/7/2002
Subject: AF thread on the OGR Forum
There is another AF thread started on the OGR forum at:

http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=63160042&f=57660482&m=7716088921


Carl
Group: S-Trains Message: 21272 From: robert allen conner Date: 10/8/2002
Subject: ROOM AT YORK
IF ANYONE NEEDS ONE CONTACT ME BEFORE WED AT NOON....LEAVING THEN AND I AM
GOING TO CANCEL ONE OF MY ROOMS...BOB
Group: S-Trains Message: 21273 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 10/9/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Has the amount of S-trains E Mails dropped off or am I missing
something? Used to get lots now only a few.


Ken Stoudt

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 21274 From: joe messinger Date: 10/9/2002
Subject: Number Boards?
Does anyone have ideas or suggestions on replacing the numbers on number
boards such as those found on Challengers?

I know new boards are available but I can't find any stamps, decals or dry
transfers that will work. Maybe decals for HO stuff?

Portlines, Hobby Surplus and so on doesn't offer numbers only.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Joe Messinger


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 21275 From: louis glumac Date: 10/9/2002
Subject: Re:
Hi, anyone needing track or switches or uncouplers, or transformers of steam
engines let me know off the list,,, i have a lot for sale before they all go
to ebay,also have a few cars for sale ,,lots of small transformers cheap if
you want them all,thanks lou. ps alose a few hand cars 740 that need some
help.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stoudt,Kenneth R." <STOUDTKR@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 12:57 PM
Subject: [S-Trains]


> Has the amount of S-trains E Mails dropped off or am I missing
> something? Used to get lots now only a few.
>
>
> Ken Stoudt
>
> +
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21276 From: John Foley Date: 10/9/2002
Subject: S-Fest
Hi Folks
I will be leaving for the S-Fest tomorrow.
I will have the Armco Steel Building kit for sale
$20. each 2 or more $18. each. I will also have
some of our freight cars and clearinghouse items
for sale, shirts, caps, pins gauges and of course
I will be looking for new members.
Also I am bringing the under construction
NASG DCC layout for you folks to try your hand
at operating it.
So I hope you folks can come to the S-Fest
for a great time
John Foley
NASG VP.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21277 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/9/2002
Subject: Re: Number Boards?
This might help: get thee to an art supply store and see if they stock
rub on dry transfer lettering sheets in white. They come with a variety
of font sizes last I remember. I have done this on occasion. My local
train store also stocks some dry transfer lettering sheets. If you must
match the font exactly and they don't stock it you may be out of luck.

joe messinger wrote:
>
> Does anyone have ideas or suggestions on replacing the numbers on number
> boards such as those found on Challengers?
>
> I know new boards are available but I can't find any stamps, decals or dry
> transfers that will work. Maybe decals for HO stuff?
>
> Portlines, Hobby Surplus and so on doesn't offer numbers only.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe Messinger
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21278 From: Lee Johnson Date: 10/9/2002
Subject: S-West IV Convention Schedule
Just a note to let everyone know that the complete S-West IV Convention
schedule in now listed on the S-West IV web site at

http://home.pacbell.net/meldridg/bass

The paint scheme that will be on the S-West IV Convention Car is shown in
the prototype photo also shown on the web site. The convention car is being
produced by Pacific Rail Shops in both scale and hi-rail/AF Compatible. An
order form for the car should be on the web site shortly, but if you want an
order form in the mean time, e-mail me at leemax@... for an order form.

Lee Johnson
Group: S-Trains Message: 21279 From: robert allen conner Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Re:
We are all headed to YORK......Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stoudt,Kenneth R." <STOUDTKR@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 12:57 PM
Subject: [S-Trains]


> Has the amount of S-trains E Mails dropped off or am I missing
> something? Used to get lots now only a few.
>
>
> Ken Stoudt
>
> +
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21280 From: robert allen conner Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: rare left handed curves
Just found this item up for auction....it has the extremely RARE LEFT HANDED
curved rubber roadbed sections..21 pieces..No wonder I could never reverse a
curve!!!!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1776495217

Bob Conner....Is it April 1 yet?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21281 From: Rick Evans Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Re: rare left handed curves
**((Just found this item up for auction....it has the extremely RARE LEFT HANDED
curved rubber roadbed sections..21 pieces..No wonder I could never reverse a
curve!!!!!!))**

Simple mistake,......it should be 21 right curves,...and 12 LEFT curves!!!
Any one could have made that goof!! {BIG smile on my face! ;-) }


Rick.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21282 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: S-trains
We are NOT all going to York. Quite a few of us are not TCA members, for
one thing. I gotta admit though, all those postings about rooms were
hilarious.

There does seem to be a definite dropoff in postings though.

Could it be a delayed reaction to 9/11/01, or our ruptured economy, or
both? The news seems to be almost completely bad these days. Maybe toy
trains don't seem quite as relevant. Just an idea to throw out for your
consideration and comments.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21283 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Re: S-trains Low Vol Of Posts
I hate to think that the # of posts is due to the last complaining that was
posted for not sticking to "TRAIN" only topics. MHO Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21284 From: louis glumac Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Re: S-trains
Iwas wonder if the economy would hurt the used american flyer
bussiness,,,well last train show it still looked to me that people were
still buying them,,,,but a lot of higher end stuff was not moving at
all,,,,,,,,,,but who really knows,,,,,
----- Original Message -----
From: <jarcho@...>
To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 4:50 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] S-trains


> We are NOT all going to York. Quite a few of us are not TCA members, for
> one thing. I gotta admit though, all those postings about rooms were
> hilarious.
>
> There does seem to be a definite dropoff in postings though.
>
> Could it be a delayed reaction to 9/11/01, or our ruptured economy, or
> both? The news seems to be almost completely bad these days. Maybe toy
> trains don't seem quite as relevant. Just an idea to throw out for your
> consideration and comments.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21285 From: nasglibrary Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Virus Warning
All --

You have it, because I had it. See removal instructions below.

Dick Karnes
========
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: 10/9/02 5:44:32 PM
Subject: VIRUS WARNING

You are in my address book PLEASE READ!! I did find this
virus so please
check yours. A cousin of Pres's sent this to me, so I did
as the
following instructions said to do, and I no longer have the
virus in my
PC. The virus (called jdbgmgr.exe) is not detected by
Norton or McAfee
anti-virus systems. The virus sits dormant for 14 days
before damaging
the system. It's sent automatically by messenger and by the
address book,
whether or not you sent e-mails to your contacts. Here is
how to check
for the virus and how to get rid of it.

1. Go to start, click on Find or Search options.
2. In the Files/Folders option, write the name
jdbgmgr.exe
3. Be sure you search your C: drive and any other drives
you may have.

4. Click "Find now"
5. The virus has a teddy bear icon with the name
jdbgmgr.exe
DONOT OPEN!
6. Go to edit, choose "select all" to highlight the file
without opening it.

7. Now go to file and select "delete". It will then go to
the Recycle Bin.

8. Go to the Recycle Bin and delete it there as well.
IF YOU FIND THIS VIRUS, YOU MUST CONTACT ALL
THE PEOPLE IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOK, SO THAT THEY CAN ERADICATE
IT
IN THEIR OWN
ADDRESS BOOKS. I AM EXTREMELY SORRY ABOUT THIS. I'M SURE
THAT
AS I HAVE
FOUND IT, EVERYONE IN MY ADDRESS BOOK WILL HAVE IT AS
WELL.TOO
---- DO THIS;

1. open a new e-mail message
2. Click the photo of address book next to "TO"

3. Click every name and add it to BCC, or send to.

4. Copy this message, enter subject, paste to e-mail, and
send.

I sure am sorry about this.


I recieved this from a friend.

Marvin
Group: S-Trains Message: 21286 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: virus warning
Sorry to disappoint you Dick, but I don't have it on my computer.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21287 From: Jay E. Mellon Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Virus Alert!
All,
I found a virus in my system that is not detected by the Norton or McAfee antivirus programs. You can search for it and remove it if you have it by doing the following:

1. Go to Start, click on Find/Search option.
2. In the Files/Folders option, write the name jdbgmgr.exe
3. Search C: drive and any other drives in your system.
4. Click "Find Now".
5. Virus has a teddy bear icon with the name jdbgmgr.exe. DO NOT OPEN!
6. Go to Edit, choose "Select All" to highlight file without opening it.
7. Go to File and select "Delete". It will go to Recycle Bin.
8. Go to Recycle Bin and delete it there also.

If you find this virus in your system, you must contact your entire address book and send them this message to delete it. Sorry about that, folks!
Jay Mellon
Group: S-Trains Message: 21288 From: Arden Goehring Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Virus Alert!
Folks - this a hoax. jdbgmgr.exe is a Microsoft Windows file. Note it will
have the same install date as many other files in Windows\system\ folder.
Don't do anything.

Arden
Group: S-Trains Message: 21289 From: robert allen conner Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Re: rare left handed curves
Reminds me of the two roofers.....One picked up a nail and drove it
in.....every so often he would throw a nail off the roof....when his buddy
asked what he was doing that for...he replied...."They put the head on the
wrong end !"

Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gale Hall" <frisco91@...>
To: "robert allen conner" <rcon7@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] rare left handed curves


> Bob,
>
> I love this hobby...I was thinking of bidding, but guess not, I checked
and
> I have no left hand curved track, so rather than just have it sit around,
> I'll let someone who has some LH track on hand bid on it. If is was used
it
> would be second hand right? Naw it wouldn't be left hand...but if you
went
> right to the curved and picked out some, the remaining pieces would be
left
> I suppose.....But if I got it, I would store it between my North-South
> rerailers and my East-West rerailers..
>
> gale hall
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "robert allen conner" <rcon7@...>
> To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 1:19 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] rare left handed curves
>
>
> > Just found this item up for auction....it has the extremely RARE LEFT
> HANDED
> > curved rubber roadbed sections..21 pieces..No wonder I could never
reverse
> a
> > curve!!!!!!
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1776495217
> >
> > Bob Conner....Is it April 1 yet?
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21290 From: robert allen conner Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Virus
So if we find it....whats to say that by deleting it we don't delete our
operating system??????....could it be important to the operation of our
computer ???? Any computer guru's out there...my Norton AV is updated
daily.....Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 21291 From: nhterpsfan Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: jdbgmgr.exe Virus is hoax
This is a hoax. See,

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q322993

In short, you have not hurt your system if you deleted the file
unless you are a Java programmer using MS J++. The file is easily
restored if you are concerned.

Bill Hilliard
Group: S-Trains Message: 21292 From: nasglibrary Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Virus -- continued
All --

Apparently the virus notice I sent earlier is a hoax. You need the file
that the message asks you to delete. If you have cleared the "virus"
from your computer already, please do the following to restore the
deleted file:

check this website::

http://vil.mcafee.com/dispVirus.asp?virus_k=99436

AVERT HOAX Notice!!

McAfee AVERT Labs would like to inform you of a new email HOAX.

This email message is just a HOAX. Although, the JDBGMGR.EXE file may
become
infected by a number of valid viruses (most commonly W32/Magistr@MM),
the details of this HOAX message are not based on actual events.

We are advising users who receive the email to delete the message and DO
NOT
pass it on as this is how an email HOAX propagates.

JDBGMGR.EXE is the Microsoft Debugger Registrar for Java. In the event
that
this file has already been deleted, see the Removal Instructions on how
to restore this file.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21293 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Re: S-trains
In a message dated 10/10/02 4:53:24 PM, jarcho@... writes:

<< Maybe toy trains don't seem quite as relevant. Just an idea to throw out
for your
consideration and comments. >>

I will be attending both S-Fest and York. I shall try to let you all know how
active (or inactive) things are. If any of you are going, see you there!

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 21294 From: clifma19 Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Chicago
I am in Chicago this weekend and would like to know if any stores on
the north side around Libertyville have American Flyer and S guage
trains.

Please contact me at clifma19@...

Thanks
Group: S-Trains Message: 21295 From: michael prell Date: 10/10/2002
Subject: Re: rare left handed curves
And leave us not forget the extreme importance of
making sure that all straight track is placed in the
right direction or else the direction might go in the
wrong direction and that would be a bad thing. Instead
of going east, one might be going west. Don't think
about this for very long. I got a head ache writing
this.:)
--- Rick Evans <comic@...> wrote:
> **((Just found this item up for auction....it has
> the extremely RARE LEFT HANDED
> curved rubber roadbed sections..21 pieces..No wonder
> I could never reverse a
> curve!!!!!!))**
>
> Simple mistake,......it should be 21 right
> curves,...and 12 LEFT curves!!!
> Any one could have made that goof!! {BIG smile on
> my face! ;-) }
>
>
> Rick.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories
> too!
>
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>


=====
Being angry is the same as holding a hot coal in the palm of your hand. You want to hold on to it in order to throw it at another, but only hurt yourself in doing so.

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Group: S-Trains Message: 21296 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: S-trains Low Vol Of Posts
Maybe this is the lull before the Christmas season storm. What we need are
some good Flyer tales
to share. If you notice even the "regulars" aren't posting. Somebody check
the Train Room maybe we lost them.
Question for the group. How are you finding the quality of the after market
spare parts you have been purchasing. Parts aren't cheap and I'm not so
sure the quality is there. What are your experiences?

Ken Stoudt


-----Original Message-----
From: anormal1@... [mailto:anormal1@...]
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 5:06 PM
To: jarcho@...; s-trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] S-trains Low Vol Of Posts


I hate to think that the # of posts is due to the last complaining that was

posted for not sticking to "TRAIN" only topics. MHO Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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+

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 21297 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Virus Alert!
Hi All:
Thanks Arden for your note. I had already deleted this file at 1 am
"last night" when I wasn't thinking too clearly, then got all the notes
about the hoax today!! Unfortunately, removal of the file also made my
keyboard inoperative (might have been just coincidental), so I couldn't
get much help. I did restart the computer, but that didn't help.
Luckily, when I shut the computer off totally, and restarted it two
hours later, the file reappeared in the windows operating system so all
is now well (as you can tell because I am writing this e-mail). So,
either I have a pretty smart system which repairs itself (shades of the
Terminator movie series), or the keyboard wasn't affected in the first
place and it was just coincidence.

That would have been some virus if it had been real. Just think that if
it sent the virus through your e-mail addresses, then all those people
would send it back to you (assuming they had your e-mail address stored)
- it could get pretty ugly and would have been a never-ending iterative
process!! I will take everyone's advice and check with McAfee (which I
have) and wait about 24 -48 hours before I do anything to rely also on
these lists to provide the right info. Tx again to all.
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)

Arden Goehring wrote:

>Folks - this a hoax. jdbgmgr.exe is a Microsoft Windows file. Note it will
>have the same install date as many other files in Windows\system\ folder.
>Don't do anything.
>
>Arden
>
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21298 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: LH curves vs. RH curves
I wrote the seller and he replied. See below:
____________________________________
You said:
>American Flyer Rubber roadbed 67 total pieces,
>34 straight, 12 right curves, 21 left curves.

How do you know the difference between right curves and left curves? I
mean, if you turn them around, do they get all mixed up?

:-) (Big Grin in your direction!)

Chris Zizzo
The Flyer Buyer
__________________________________________________________

Great point, to be 100% honest I never thought of that. What an idiot. Bet
some buyers are getting a pretty good laugh when they read my listing?
Maybe more coffee before I start a early morning listing session?
__________________________________________________________

Nice to see that the guy is a good sport!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21299 From: splitdorf@1bigred.com Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: S-trains Low Vol Of Posts
How are you finding the quality of the after market
> spare parts you have been purchasing.


I've found the repro parts to be very good. I've not yet had anything that was unusable or required serious modification to work. To those who are making the desperately need parts - thanks.

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 21300 From: keith kuzma Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Parts
I just received an order from Doug at Portlines.All
the stuff is top quality.I think the prices are
reasonable,also.I think the quality and availability
has improved alot in the last few years.We have some
real good parts dealers in this hobby.Thanks Doug and
Joe! Keith

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Group: S-Trains Message: 21301 From: Alex Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: S-trains
Hey Tom, things could be worse (and likely will get so)! I would think that
folks would increasingly turn to hobbies and sports in order to keep their
sensibilities tuned in times like these. I know I do.

On a related note, it's been 1-1/2 years since 9/11. Typically,
al-Qaida-Idiota strikes every two years, so watch out! Murderer Bin Ladin
was quoted as saying that revenge is a dish best served cold.

== Alex in Maine

-----Original Message-----
From: jarcho@... [mailto:jarcho@...]
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 4:50 PM
To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] S-trains


We are NOT all going to York. Quite a few of us are not TCA members, for
one thing. I gotta admit though, all those postings about rooms were
hilarious.

There does seem to be a definite dropoff in postings though.

Could it be a delayed reaction to 9/11/01, or our ruptured economy, or
both? The news seems to be almost completely bad these days. Maybe toy
trains don't seem quite as relevant. Just an idea to throw out for your
consideration and comments.

Tom Jarcho



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Group: S-Trains Message: 21302 From: David Dewey Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: LH curves vs. RH curves
Chris,
You might ask the guy (gal?) if he/she gets more hits on the auction,
maybe humor sells?
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21303 From: David Dewey Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Quality of repro parts: was S-trains Low Vol Of Posts
HI all,
Well, I'm not here as much because I'm working now--and I've got a
backlog of repairs in the shop and Christmas is coming!
Quality varies, although I think the AF parts are much better than most
Model A and Model T Ford repro parts (Don't get me going on those)! For
instance, there are at least two suppliers of reverse unit fingers. One
supplier's fingers are too long, but can be easily doctored to fit. The
other one uses a slightly thicker phosphor bronze material, which I think is
a very good thing, but the edges are sometimes sharp (dull punch dies?), so
they both need "doctoring" to fit (maybe this is why I call myself "The
Train Doctor," I'm always "doctoring" parts). There is also a variation in
knuckle couplers. That there is enough demand for more than one person to
make this amazes me. The coupler bodies do now follow ACG's much better: I
can remember back in the late '70s the bodies had sharp edges and repros
were easy to spot, but they worked well.As to who carries who's parts, I
dunno! (was that a spotted owl going by?? Who? Who?Who? -- AH, nope, just
Daffy Duck, Woo! Woo! Woo!)
Some parts are getting much better too, plus some new ones, like Neil's
pullmor wheels. I think we're pretty lucky in the parts area so far.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21304 From: David Dewey Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: S-trains Low Vol Of Posts--not really Trains related, but fun.
Another thought,
We should be happy for the lack of crazy posts here (well, except for
mine! ;-) )
Following is a post I received today. Now WHO would fall for this
obvious scam?? Someone must, or they wouldn't be sent out.
If any of you get rich off this, I want 2% for directing (and warning)
you!! Heh, Heh, Heh.
S'
David
PS Following is a SCAM, I repeat a SCAM that was emailed to me this AM.

FROM: PRINCE UDOH KINGSLEY.
AUDITING AND ACCOUNTING UNIT.
CONTINENTAL BANK BENIN,
COTONOU.
BENIN REPUBLIC.
Alternative e-mail:princeudohking@...


Dear Friend,

I am Prince Udoh Kingsley, the director in charge of auditing and
accounting section of Continental Bank Benin Cotonou,Benin Republic in West
Africa. With due respect and regard, I have decided to contact you on a
business transaction that will be very beneficial to both of us.

During our investigation and auditing in this bank, my department came
across a very huge sum of money belonging to a deceased person who died on
October 31st 1997 in a auto crash and the fund has
been dormant in his account with this Bank since 1996 without any claim of
the fund in our custody either from his family or relation. A close
investigation revealed that the deceased has no existing
relation as next of kin.

The said amount is U.S $25.2M (Twenty five million, two hundred thousand
United States dollars). I want you to collaborate with me to put a claim on
this money as the next of kin of the deceased account holder, Mr Duckson
Fritz. and my
colleague will present you as the next of kin.

Meanwhile all arrangement to put claim over this fund as the bonafide next
of kin to the deceased, get the required approval and transfer this money to
your designated foreign account has been put
in place and directives and needed information will be relayed to you as
soon as you indicate your interest and willingness to assist us in this risk
free and highly confidential transaction.
On your reply, we shall discuss the sharing ratio for each party to this
transaction.

Please feel free to contact me immediately via email: for further directive
and or clarification on this transaction.

I look forward to a mutually beneficial business relationship with you.

Best Wishes,
PRINCE UDOH KINGSLEY.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21305 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: LH curves vs. RH curves
You found one!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Zizzo
To: slist
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 9:04 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] LH curves vs. RH curves


I wrote the seller and he replied. See below:
____________________________________
You said:
>American Flyer Rubber roadbed 67 total pieces,
>34 straight, 12 right curves, 21 left curves.

How do you know the difference between right curves and left curves? I
mean, if you turn them around, do they get all mixed up?

:-) (Big Grin in your direction!)

Chris Zizzo
The Flyer Buyer
__________________________________________________________

Great point, to be 100% honest I never thought of that. What an idiot. Bet
some buyers are getting a pretty good laugh when they read my listing?
Maybe more coffee before I start a early morning listing session?
__________________________________________________________

Nice to see that the guy is a good sport!

Chris Zizzo



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21306 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: S-trains Low Vol Of Posts
I think I can pretty much show you something wrong with any given repro part from any given source. But then again, I can pretty much show you something wrong with any given original part. Gilbert wasn't always perfect. Neither are the repro parts. At least we HAVE repro parts to complain about, and more are coming on the market all the time.
-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: splitdorf@...
To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: RE: [S-Trains] S-trains Low Vol Of Posts


How are you finding the quality of the after market
> spare parts you have been purchasing.


I've found the repro parts to be very good. I've not yet had anything that was unusable or required serious modification to work. To those who are making the desperately need parts - thanks.

Steve Blancard


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21307 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Left or Right Handed
Yes, roadbed or track, Gilbert made it ambidextrous.
The other tinplate people made track where you had to
move pins to go the other way, while that is no
problem with Gilbert track. So, looks are not the only
good thing about Gilbert two rail track.

jfred


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Group: S-Trains Message: 21308 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Rare left hand curves
Gotta watch those. They'll throw ya every time.

"S"
Group: S-Trains Message: 21309 From: Scott Holm Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: S-trains Low Vol Of Posts--not really Trains related, but fun.
--- David Dewey <djdewey@...> wrote:
> The said amount is U.S $25.2M (Twenty five million, two hundred
> thousand United States dollars). ...transfer this money to
> your designated foreign account...

I always reply to them to send me the money via Paypal. They never
respond though.


__________________________________________________
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Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21310 From: Arden Goehring Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Virus Alert!
Rance you are lucky your Windows probably detected it was screwed up by your
deletion and so it restored the previous setup. Windows ME is the first
system that does that (not always so successfully).

Also note most new viruses do steal your address book and send themselves to
everyone in it. Plus they make it look like YOU sent it! These creeps
should be drawn and quartered.

ag
Group: S-Trains Message: 21311 From: trzp1800 Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Revenge quote
--- In S-Trains@y..., "Alex" <alexmm@a...> wrote:
......Murderer Bin Ladin
> was quoted as saying that revenge is a dish best served cold.
>
> == Alex in Maine

Dear Alex:

Bin Laden may have said this but he didn't originate it, or much else
of a positive memorable nature. I remember this quote from Star
Trek, "The Wrath of Khan" where Khan says it to Cpt. Kirk. A quick
internet search turned up:

"Pierre Ambroise Francois Choderios de LaClos (1741-1803). He
originally said it in French in his 1782 book Les Liasons
Dangereuses: "La vengeance est un plat qui se mange froid,".

It's a nice phrase, as i hope BL will find out if he hasn't already.

Regards,
Ted
Group: S-Trains Message: 21312 From: Rick Evans Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re-pro Moe & Joe......
Has anyone found a DECENT Moe & Joe?? I have bought from two different suppliers,..
and their faces all seem to have taken a shotgun blast!! If Gilbert could make a decent face...
why can't anyone else??


Rick.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21313 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: repro parts
I have yet to see a repro knuckle coupler whose weight doesn't hang too low.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21314 From: Robert Jackson Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Virus Alert!
Arden Goehring wrote:

> Also note most new viruses do steal your address book and send themselves to
> everyone in it. Plus they make it look like YOU sent it! These creeps
> should be drawn and quartered.

But, first they should be flayed!
Bob Jackson
Group: S-Trains Message: 21315 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: repro parts
I second Tom's message, I continue to have problems with the knuckle coupler
weigths hanging up on the switches because they are too low.

Jim Hannawald.


----- Original Message -----
From: <jarcho@...>
To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 4:51 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] repro parts


> I have yet to see a repro knuckle coupler whose weight doesn't hang too
low.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21316 From: rfgiardina Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: repro parts
Who's repro couplers have you tried?




--- In S-Trains@y..., "Jim Hannawald" <jhannawa@s...> wrote:
> I second Tom's message, I continue to have problems with the
knuckle coupler
> weigths hanging up on the switches because they are too low.
>
> Jim Hannawald.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <jarcho@r...>
> To: <S-trains@y...>
> Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 4:51 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] repro parts
>
>
> > I have yet to see a repro knuckle coupler whose weight doesn't
hang too
> low.
> >
> > Tom Jarcho
> >
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
Group: S-Trains Message: 21318 From: rfgiardina Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: repro parts
Maybe you haven't seen them all? Or maybe you haven't adjusted them
according to the Gilbert instructions.

A close examination of original couplers show a variation as to the
coupler weight position. That's why they included instructions for
adjusting the space between the bottom of the weight and the top of
the rail.

Bob Giardina

--- In S-Trains@y..., jarcho@r... wrote:
> I have yet to see a repro knuckle coupler whose weight doesn't hang
too low.
>
> Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21319 From: rfgiardina Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: Re-pro Moe & Joe......
That is one of the items at the top of our list. As soon as my dad is
back on his feet and can releave me from the other molding work, I'll
get started on Moe and a couple of other items.

I'm working on a new fix for AF diesel chassis, that should solve the
axle hole wear problem and improve electrical pickup. Should have the
tools and dies done in about a month.

Bob Giardina

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Rick Evans" <comic@d...> wrote:
> Has anyone found a DECENT Moe & Joe?? I have bought from two
different suppliers,..
> and their faces all seem to have taken a shotgun blast!! If Gilbert
could make a decent face...
> why can't anyone else??
>
>
> Rick.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21320 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: repro parts
YES!!! Someone besides me has finally pointed that out!!! As I've posted before, I've had more problems with repro knuckle couplers. The weights hang too low so that it snags on switch frogs, uncouplers, etc. The weight is canted forward so that it looks weird. It's not a simple matter of pulling the weight off, trimming down the long part of the J-hook and pushing the weight back on. Some are so difficult to remove, I've ruined lots of J-hooks trying. Then if I try to put the weight back on, it won't stay on. Aaargh! The hobby needs good knuckle couplers. I quit sampling parts dealers knuckle couplers in an attempt to find the correct ones. I reconverted all my original link back to link.
-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: jarcho@...
To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 4:51 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] repro parts


I have yet to see a repro knuckle coupler whose weight doesn't hang too low.

Tom Jarcho



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21321 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, October 13, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page
http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21322 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Left and right handed curves.
It seems to me I remember an old time hardware store where they
sold left and right hand Flyer curved track and roadbed right next to
their display of left and right hand pipe wrenches, claw hammers, rip
saws, and gnip-gnop tables (that's ping-pong spelled backward). The
owner used to complain that he did not have much market for the left
handed versions of the Flyer track or tools. He did say, however, that
he moved a lot of gnip-gnop games, though.
My wife's stepfather bought me a book about railroads of the
anthracite region. A couple of photographs could inspire me to build
similar scenes on my layout, should I ever get my basement
waterproofed. One shows a Lehigh Valley FA2 at the point of a freight
consist passing under a bridge that carries the Lehigh and New England
across the Lehigh River, Jersey Central trackage, and the LV line close
to my home. The second shows a Pennsylvania Steam locomotive hauling a
short train, five or six hopper cars and a caboose, down the Frackville
grade on PRR trackage. I am not sure of the grade of this track, but it
is a hard rise from St. Clair to Frackville. In fact, trains were
limited to 3500 tons on the downgrade because of the steepness of the
grade. These are two great pictures of anthracite railroading during
the early post-war days..
The scenes would look great on a Flyer layout.

W. Thomas Boussum

"If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch you must start out by
creating the universe." Carl Sagan in "Cosmos."
Group: S-Trains Message: 21323 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Hoax?
#1- It is a real bank.

CONTINENTAL BANK BENIN
AV Jean Paul II, Crossroads of the Three Banks, 01 LP 2020 - Cotonou
Internet site: http://www.ad-net.fr/cbb/
Email: contbk@...
Tel.: (229) 31 24 24 faxes: (229) 31 51 77
Swift: COBB BJ BJ
Telex: CONTBK 5151 CTNOU

Contacts:

General manager: Michel Sabath of ALMEIDA
Production director: Marius ELEGDEBE

#2- The Prince is NOT specifically named on the list of Nigerian Scam
Artists:

Schemes, Scams, Frauds.


Search Functions www.crimes-of-persuasion.com Site Directory

Collection of Various Aliases used by Nigerian Advance Fee Fraud Scammers
S-Z Including Sani, Sanni, Sankoh, Sanusi, Savimbi, Saro-Wiwa, Seko,
Sese-Seko, Sese Seko, Smith, Sule, Suleman, Tanko, Thomas, Tijani, Tunde,
Ubah, Ube, Uche, Udeh, Umaru, Useni, Usman, Waziri, West, Williams, Yaradua
and Yusuf


This listing is just one more collection point of Nigerian Advance Fee
Scammer names which have been compiled. They are inevitably aliases ( with
some exceptions ) but this page will act as an entry point for web searchers
to the main section starting at Nigerian Advance Fee Fraud.


#3- The offer does not seem to be EXACTLY the blueprint used in all similar
offers:

Blueprint for a Nigerian Scam

This is a five billion US$ worldwide scam which has run since at least 1989
under successive Governments of Nigeria. It is also referred to as "Advance
Fee Fraud" and "419 Fraud" after the relevant section of the Criminal Code
of Nigeria.

Official Notification

You first receive a letter, fax or e-mail from an insider or alleged
"official" representing a present or former foreign government or agency.
The letter, while appearing transparently bogus and even ridiculous to most,
is unfortunately growing in its effectiveness and reach.

Initially targeting businessmen, the scam has now expanded to include the
average citizen due to the low cost of email transmission in relation to
potential gains. Church officials are also being specifically targeted with
uniquely worded offers of charitable bequests. The common thread is that
the initial letter sets the stage and is the opening round of a scheme
within a scheme.

The following characteristics may be found in these letters.
Historically mailed out, they have progressed on to faxes, then e-mails.
Many are addressed to "president" or "CEO," rather than a specific name.
They are marked "urgent" and "confidential."
They may contain spelling mistakes and grammatical errors which give you a
sense of intellectual superiority, sympathy, or assurance of origin.
If mailed to you it will have foreign, exotic stamps.
Written almost always in all capital letters reminiscent of older teletypes
even though currently e-mailed.
The dollar amounts to be transferred, invariably in the tens of millions of
dollars, is also written out in text form. ie $32,460,000 USD ( Thirty-two
million, four hundred and sixty thousand United States Dollars )
They say you have been recommended for, or they have verified, your honesty
and business acumen.


The Exalted Sender

The sender may claim to be one of the following:
a senior civil servant from a department in one of their Ministries i.e.
the Audit Bureau Department of the Nigerian National Petroleum Corp. (NNPC),
the International Remittance Department, the Ministry of Trade and Industry,
the Federal Tenders Board, Ministry of Aviation, Ministry of Finance,
Nigeria Export Promotion Council (NEPC), Nigerian Petroleum Resources
Ministry Headquarters, OMPADEC (Oil Minerals Producing Area Development
Commission) etc.

Nigerian royalty or a political insider such as "the son of the President
of Nigeria" or a "Nigerian prince or princess"
the spouse, relative, aide or confidante of a deposed leader
a Nigerian businessman or lawyer with an impressive title such as "Chief",
"Barrister" or "Dr."
an auditor or accountant with strong ties to Nigerian officials
a religious figure such as a Deacon, Brother, Pastor


Surnames commonly used with a multitude of given names include:

Abacha, Abu, Abubakar, Adams, Adama, Adamas, Adamu, Ademola, Afolabi, Agu,
Ahmed, Akin, Akins, Akpan, Aku, Akume, Alabi, Alamin, Ali, Amadi, Asika,
Attah, Ayoola, Baba, Babalola, Bakare, Bako, Bangura, Bedie, Bello, Benson,
Biyah, Bongo, Brown, Camara, Chambers, Chika, Chukwu, Coker, Cole, Coleman,
Collins, Dangote, Danjuma, David, Davies, Dickson, Duke, Duru, Edward, Ego,
Egobia, Eke, Emeka, Eke, Emeka, Emmanuel, Eze, Galadima, Garuba, Gezi,
George, Giwa, Godwin, Goodman, Gwarzo, Hassan, Ibe, Ibeh, Ibrahim, Idah,
Idris, Ige, Igho, Jack, James, John, Johnson, Joseph, Jude,Kabba, Kabbah,
Kabila, Kalu, Kamara, Khumalo, Kofi, Koffi, Kolade, Kone, Koroma, Koromah,
Kunte, Lamine, Lawal, Lee, Madu, Mane, Mark, Martins, Mboma, Michael,
Mobutu, Mohammed, Momoh, Momodu, Moore, Morgan, Moyo, Musa, Mustapha,
Nelson, Nyerere, Obaro, Obaseki, Obi, Odili, Ojo, Okon, Okoro, Omenka, Osa,
Osagie, Peter, Peters, Sani, Sanni, Sankoh, Sanusi, Savimbi, Saro-Wiwa,
Sese-Seko, Sese Seko, Smith, Sule, Suleman, Tanko, Thomas, Tijani, Tunde,
Ubah, Ube, Umaru, Useni, Usman, Waziri, West, Williams, Yaradua and Yusuf.



No, Duck, I think you've got a good shot at the money! Just think about all
the trains you can buy!

Hoo hoo,ha ha, hee hee and all other typed laughing sounds :<} Wow, this
is a good one.

You are lucky, my friend. A lot of people who took this seriously have
ended up dead.
For more, go to:
http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Crimes/Business/nigerian.htm

Lucky Duck.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21324 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: More Hoax
Mr. Duckson Fritz ??????

Gee, I take it all back. Maybe this IS your long lost uncle, um . . . Unca.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21325 From: John G Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Occupied block
Ok, it's been slow with new message posts the past week. So here
goes.

Any hints on how I can clear up this occupied block? Tooting the
whistle only seems to move the problem to another section of track.

See photo:

http://members.trainorders.com/notcoldenough/jg/s.jpg

John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 21326 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: occupied block
I am very interested in block systems since I'm trying to write about them
these days.

I suggest you get a Maine Coon cat. This will drive the "current" occupant
of the block into hiding.

The Maine Coon cat will not be too interested in your layout because it
isn't far enough off the floor.

Nice photo!

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21327 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: Occupied block
I find that tuna works every time. Actually, just taking the can opener out of the drawer is effective. Try this: instead of blowing a whistle, open the other end of a used can with your can opener. Gee, you might be able to record the sound and play it instead of the whistle.
-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: John G
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 9:47 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Occupied block


Ok, it's been slow with new message posts the past week. So here
goes.

Any hints on how I can clear up this occupied block? Tooting the
whistle only seems to move the problem to another section of track.

See photo:

http://members.trainorders.com/notcoldenough/jg/s.jpg

John Gasal







S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21328 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 10/11/2002
Subject: Re: Re-pro Moe & Joe......
Hello Rick and anyone interested,
I was wondering if one of the two suppliers that you used was Ron
Leventon? Back in '89 when I hunted up all my childhood Flyer I found
that my car was missing one man. Not long after this I heard about
Leventon and ordered a catalog. Along with other parts I ordered a
replacement and was very pleased as it is identical to the man that I
still had. If there would have been any difference it would have stuck
out like a sore thumb, as they both face the same way and are not that
far apart. Also, I know the man I had to compare with is original as I
bought my 971 car new in '57. So if Ron still uses the same supplier, I
think you will be happy with one from him.
Oh Boy! Trains!..................Herky 1950
Obie Bell
Group: S-Trains Message: 21329 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/12/2002
Subject: Re: Re-pro Moe & Joe......
I've heard they have some quality you can't get anywhere else, but be patient with them. IMHO, they are slooooooooow to turn around. Slower even than RFG, IMHO. I usually just wait for a local (non-Greenberg) train show to stock up on parts. That way I can at least look them over before paying too much.
-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: bellokdaka@...
To: Rick Evans ; S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 11:28 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re-pro Moe & Joe......


Hello Rick and anyone interested,
I was wondering if one of the two suppliers that you used was Ron
Leventon? Back in '89 when I hunted up all my childhood Flyer I found
that my car was missing one man. Not long after this I heard about
Leventon and ordered a catalog. Along with other parts I ordered a
replacement and was very pleased as it is identical to the man that I
still had. If there would have been any difference it would have stuck
out like a sore thumb, as they both face the same way and are not that
far apart. Also, I know the man I had to compare with is original as I
bought my 971 car new in '57. So if Ron still uses the same supplier, I
think you will be happy with one from him.
Oh Boy! Trains!..................Herky 1950
Obie Bell


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21330 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/12/2002
Subject: Virus Alerts - Last Word
PLEASE , If you have a virus alert that you would like
to share, PLEASE share it with me.

Send it to me, we can investigate it, and share it
with the group as needed.

=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 21331 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/12/2002
Subject: Circus Car 3-Pack
Here is a really unusual item. The bidding has gone astronomical so I guess
I am right about how unusual it is!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1775106669 .
All three cars came together in a 3-pack box from Gilbert.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21332 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 10/12/2002
Subject: Indianapolis GATS
Hi All, got a call from the GATS people asking me to take the Christmas
Layout to Indianapolis and Cincinnati shows. They also are gauranteeing the
money I need to cover my cost for hotells and gas. Indy is next weekend and
Cincy is Nov. 9th and 10th I think. Stop by and say Hi. Chris B the trainnut.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21333 From: jahoozdumm Date: 10/12/2002
Subject: Re: Indianapolis GATS
Chris B the trainnut wrote:

>Hi All, got a call from the GATS people asking me to take the
>Christmas Layout to Indianapolis and Cincinnati shows. They also are
>gauranteeing the money I need to cover my cost for hotells and gas.


Whoa. Is this something new with GATS? The only compensation they
offer layout displayers out West (here) is a "chance" to win a
contest, unless their policy has changed here too.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21334 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/12/2002
Subject: My Big Annual Trip
Mid-November I'll be travelling as the husband-in-tow as my wife attends her
annual convention. This year it will take place in Atlanta.

So, who wants company?
Who has a club layout I can ogle (or a really pretty wife at least)? :->

What recommendations have you guys for a fun stay in the city Sherman burnt
down?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21335 From: Ted Larson Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: JL
A few weeks back I reported finding some Johnny Lightning models of full
size mid-70's vans (Ford, Chevy, Dodge), two of which (Ford and Chevy)
appeared to be close to S scale. Although the prototype vans from all 3
mfrs. are about the same size, the 3 JL vans vary substantially in size.
I measured a full size Chevy van, it is 6'-6" wide, therefore an S scale
van should be 1-7/32" wide. If you have opportunity to measure these JL
vans, tell us which of them is closest to correct S scale?

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21336 From: lou342ac Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: Interesting Items
I found these items up for auction on Ebay. Anyone know the history
of the company or items for auction?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1776644024

Lou
Group: S-Trains Message: 21337 From: Gerry Evans Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1611
I don't know how I got this particular e-mail as an individual post
because I only subscribe to the S Trains list as a digest, but beware of an
e-mail from a Louis Glumac. It is carrying a worm. This was picked up by my
virus/worm filter this morning. I suppose, since I'm three hours behind most
of the rest of the nation, most of you have picked up on this by now, but I
thought it was worth my time to try to save someone else some grief.

Gerry Evans
In Flagstaff
Group: S-Trains Message: 21338 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: GATS
Hi Chuck,
They offer a gaurantee to individual and clubs as a last resort for the
shows. Meaning if they don't have enough layouts for the show, they will give
a fixed amount. When I do shows within an hour of home, I sign up for the
contest. I have won up to 400.00 dollars this way, but have also received
only 100.oo dollars through the contest. I only ask enough to cover my hotel
and gas cost for the most part, which is around 150 to 2oo bucks a trip.
Sometimes they turn me down for that amount. They don't like to do the fixed
amounts on small shows with low budget from what I was told by Jim at GATS.
CB


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21339 From: Hilary Smith Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: Great Modeling in the Sept/Oct S Gaugian
S Scalers:

Even if this subject has already been discussed, in my opinion we owe much to Keith B. Thompson, Gary Ippolito, and Roger Nulton for fine displays of high-quality modeling, regardless of scale, and to Don Heimburger for letting us see their work. Other than being w-a-a-a-a-y too short, which was probably not his call, Keith's B1 switcher article is wonderful, showing as it does, superb scratchbuilding. My hat is off to him for his skills and the inspiration he provides. Gary 's 'Big John" kitbash is a knockout, even if the article is again too short. Kitbash seems too inferior a term to describe putting together two cars to get one new one. It looks to be a beautiful model.

We have been treated by two talented scale modelers who pay close attention to prototype fidelity. The articles were short but I am so glad they were published.

Finally, we should cheer Roger Nulton's fine looking Monon layout. We only saw enough to realize there was some excellent modeling going on. More inspiration.

I hope all these gentlemen continue to share their work.

(Mr) Hilary Smith
Northern Virginia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21340 From: Hilary Smith Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: And Rusty Westermeier too
Listers:

In my last post on the good things in the Sept/Oct S Gaugian, I should have mentioned our debt to the ongoing excellence of Rusty Westermeier's Scale Scene column. I always read his column, and I always learn something.

Thank you, Rusty!

(Mr) Hilary Smith
Northern Virginian


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21341 From: Rick Evans Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: "Toy Train Memories" book....
The book is priced at $29.95 + shipping from Kalmbach,....I checked at Amazon,....you can get one for under $21 + shipping.....
might be in local book stores also.
If you see the book,..be sure to check out page 33,....my favorite page!!

Rick.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21342 From: Dayna Warner Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: A funny thing happened at the show
All these years S scale modelers had to make do with HO structure kits and making changes to doors and things for their layouts. Or scratch build which was always an option. I had a show today and the HO guys were flocking to buy the S scale Siegel Building that I just released especially for you guys but a couple of weeks ago. Now they are going to modify it for their HO downtown scenes. I suggested to them that they could always start modeling S scale!
Dayna Warner CEO
Trainstuff LLC
www.trainstuffllc.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21343 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, October 13, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page
http://192.197.109.21/~pyorke/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21344 From: john4flyer Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: LTI TTUX Container Trains
LTI has issued two different TTUX container trains....one with
Gilbert Trailers (48514) and another with Triple Crown Trailers
(48511). Does anyone know if these are correctly scaled for "S"?
They look a little big to me. Does anyone operate these? Do they
run well?

Thanks!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21345 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: RFG
rfgco
@...
is the address I just sent a reply to.

I got an e-mail from Ron about someting on the list. It came with an
attachment. The attachment was called set.scr . Scr files are known
viral carriers. I did not open the attachment. The message was authentic
looking and contained a post Ron made to this list.

Ron, did you send this? The address above, gleaned by reply, is apparently
bogus. The reply came back as "User Unknown.".

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21346 From: rfgiardina Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: Re: RFG
Chris,

I didn't send it. But I got one also. The email address is not mine.
Since it contains part of a message I sent to the group, I suspect
there is a virus somewhere.

Bob


--- In S-Trains@y..., Chris Zizzo <busyboy@o...> wrote:
> rfgco
> @...
> is the address I just sent a reply to.
>
> I got an e-mail from Ron about someting on the list. It came with
an
> attachment. The attachment was called set.scr . Scr files are
known
> viral carriers. I did not open the attachment. The message was
authentic
> looking and contained a post Ron made to this list.
>
> Ron, did you send this? The address above, gleaned by reply, is
apparently
> bogus. The reply came back as "User Unknown.".
>
> Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21347 From: jahoozdumm Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: Re: LTI TTUX Container Trains
"john4flyer" asked:

>LTI has issued two different TTUX container trains <snip> Does
>anyone know if these are correctly scaled for "S"? They look a
>little big to me.


Good eye, John. They are too big, too wide, that is. The trailer
length comes in at about 45 scale feet, which is protoypical enough,
but their width is over 9'4", well over the 8'6" prototype maximum.
They also have way too much "air" over the tires.

The spine cars themselves will not carry true 1/64th scale trailers
(such as those by AM, SHS, Ertl, Winross, PEM/Hartoy, Spec-cast,
Penjoy, etc.) because the spine is too wide to get between the inner
wheels of accurately scaled trailers.

Another shortcoming is that Lionel used their usual AF freight trucks
on the spinecars, which of course depict "plain bearing" trucks, not
roller bearing trucks.

Other than all that, the cars are... uh, real spiffy. ;^)


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21348 From: Don Thompson Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: Re: S-trains
Dear Tom,
Interesting observation. I did not talk to everyone who was a dealer at York,
but the impressions I got from those who did talk to us was that the last two York
had normal sales. Not great, but not bad either. We were all concerned after 9/11,
but it did not hurt attendance or sales. Our sales at S Fest also were average. At
the NASG they were a bit low, but we attributed that to the S Spree being down the
road a few miles and seeing many of the same customers again a few weeks later. I
am not sure about York this year, as many of our York customers we just saw this
weekend.
Don

jarcho@... wrote:

> We are NOT all going to York. Quite a few of us are not TCA members, for
> one thing. I gotta admit though, all those postings about rooms were
> hilarious.
>
> There does seem to be a definite dropoff in postings though.
>
> Could it be a delayed reaction to 9/11/01, or our ruptured economy, or
> both? The news seems to be almost completely bad these days. Maybe toy
> trains don't seem quite as relevant. Just an idea to throw out for your
> consideration and comments.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 21349 From: lou342ac Date: 10/13/2002
Subject: Re: LTI TTUX Container Trains
John,
Both items are 0-27 rolling stock with American Flyer trucks.
This was Lionel's way of introducing new S-Gauge Equipment. You can
convert any Lionel O-27 TTUX the same way by changing the trucks to
American Flyer S-Gauge and they will match the 48511 & 48514
perfectly.

Lou

--- In S-Trains@y..., "john4flyer" <john4flyer@y...> wrote:
> LTI has issued two different TTUX container trains....one with
> Gilbert Trailers (48514) and another with Triple Crown Trailers
> (48511). Does anyone know if these are correctly scaled for "S"?
> They look a little big to me. Does anyone operate these? Do they
> run well?
>
> Thanks!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21350 From: Scott Holm Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: Re: LTI TTUX Container Trains
--- john4flyer <john4flyer@...> wrote:
> LTI has issued two different TTUX container trains....one with
> Gilbert Trailers (48514) and another with Triple Crown Trailers
> (48511). Does anyone know if these are correctly scaled for "S"?
> They look a little big to me. Does anyone operate these? Do they
> run well?

They aren't even close to scale and they don't run well. They are way
too tall and tippy. Mine are now packed away permanently.



__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 21351 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: Fall S-Fest: Friday evening report
S-Fest Report

Good morning.
I attended the 2002 S-Fest in Tingley Park, IL. It was held at the
Tingley Park convention center. Because of my schedule I was only able to
attend late on Friday. I left work at 2:00 PM in Milwaukee and got to the
south side of Chicagoland at 5:30. I was using the directions from the web
site and this gave no clue if you were to go North or South from the closest
interchange. The address was so new that Mapquest.com had no idea. It
guessed South. I, of course, followed this and it was North.
Coming back over the bridge I really needed to go the bathroom. I
spotted the Holiday Inn on the right and decided they have bathrooms and I
can ask for directions there. I drove in to discover the large, attached,
gray building just to the Holiday Inn's North was the convention center.
Right now I didn't care: I had a mission. I parked the car, went in, found
the toilet. When I came out the world was fine again. Smiles all around.
I was now thinking about supper. I eat by the clock and it was
suppertime. About that time I was greeted by Dick Kloes, Gary Children, and
Ray (Raymond) ?Something?. The first two are of Badgerland S Gaugers and I
didn't know Ray before. The three of us went to Bananas, the restaurant in
the Holiday Inn. Dick and Gary were disappointed they didn't have catfish
on the menu. (I told my wife about this later. When Catherine went grocery
shopping she purchased fresh catfish steaks.)
We all ended up with the prime rib. Prime rib, clam chowder soup,
basket of breads, wilted stir-fry vegetables, and a baked potato. A large
baked potato. A very large baked potato. Each of our potatoes could have
been carved into a tunnel for N scale. Dick got the whopper of them all.
It was normal shape but close to a foot long! And soft and fluffy. Whoever
cooked these knew what they were doing. Good food. Good company.
After eating, I tried to get away as I knew the trading floor closed at
10:00 and I had to go home Friday night. Getting the check took forever.
$12.00 (with tip) for a Prime Rib dinner in a motel restaurant is a good
buy. (Of course I left my big cash at home so I had only what was already
in my wallet.) I left Dick and company here and took off.
Registration was easy as I had prepaided. I got my packet and started
in. I enjoyed all of the layouts. As I hadn't ever had a chance to really
look at the All-Aboard panels, Art Dotes' layout was appreciated. The
others, as always, are bigger and better every time.
I got to the trading floor. Jeff Wilson of Hoquat Hobbies was there. I
purchased the last traction shell he had: CNS&M express motor 314. (Box
motor with four big doors.) It came without box and almost without anything
else. But I can figure this out. (Yes, this one too has copies of the AF
caboose door for all of the doors: just like the North Shore coach and the
North Shore merchandise dispatch car: Box motor with two big center doors.)
I stressed again that I wanted to purchase 10 more steeplecab shells.
Jeff informed me that they are gone. If I can find J. Wolf (who made them),
maybe I can get more but Jeff's letters have gone unanswered. So I guess my
project of building 10 (with most for sale) is dead.
The biggest disappointment was the number of tables that had stuff but
were covered and did not uncover that evening. Saddest was the NASG table
as this was one of the reasons I drove a total of six and a half hours to
get there and back! As an NASG member this was a big disappointment. CASG
members told me John Foley was responsible for the tables. I got there at
6:45 PM and left at 9:45 PM. Not once during those three hours was the
table uncovered. I wanted to examine the NASG modern building before
purchasing one (or several). I also wanted to purchase a second standards
gauge. I hate dealing with the mail and I hate paying shipping. All
previous S-Fests that I have attended have always had a working NASG table
and someone with it.
I got the JAX blocks from S-Helper, Bob Barker's CD book from Port Line
hobbies, two bags of the 120 MTH people, a couple of trolley books, a few
parts, and many, many fine conversations. Tom Hodges of American Highrail
was doing a brisk business and is out of Northern tender shells at this time
(336). (He had about 20 frames, however.) He still hasn't cut me my water
tender. (Don't point out Raisin River's masterpiece water tender. That
work of art would look ridiculous behind a pure AF 336. I love my 336. I
need something as crude as it is.) American Highrail has a brand-new
doodlebug which looks much like the Bachman Spectrum in HO. Very nice.
(No, I did not buy one. If it had been an interurban or MU coach, I would
have. Probably several...)
American Models didn't have much at their booth. But it turns out
Karen bought Ron surprise tickets to the Stones Concert for Saturday night.
I hope he had a good time because if I had those tickets I know I wouldn't
have made the S-Fest either! (I can buy from Ron either direct or next
year. I always get good support from Ron.)
Des Plaines hobbies was also closed all evening.

When I left I turned in my badge holder. (Someone else I am sure used it on
Saturday.) I went home to bed. On Saturday I did all of the normal weekend
stuff except mow the lawn (which is very overdue). When I could, it rained.
Sunday saw me climb onto a plane for California. And here I am. So I
could not have stayed for Saturday, I had to pack and catch a plane.
Tonight (Monday) I visit Ed L's home with my steeplecabs and on Wednesday I
go to Bill Roberts.

All in all it was another successful S-Fest. If you were there I hope you
had as much fun as I did.
Thorin



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21352 From: Roy Plotnick Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: S-Fest feedback
On behalf of the CASG, I would like to thanks all of those who attended
Fall S-Fest and helped make it a great success!

I would also like to take this opportunity to solicit feedback, both
positive and negative (hopefully more of the former!) on the Fest.
I will compile all responses and pass them on to the organizing committee
and club officers.
-Roy
Group: S-Trains Message: 21353 From: aag_rlg Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: Barrel Loader
Everyone:

I am in the process of tuning up a barrel loader to get it ready for
a Christmas layout display. I got a new forklift, man and barrels
from Port Lines Hobby (thanks to Doug Peck), so I am now trying to
get it to work reliably. There seem to be two problems. One is that
the barrels tip out of the rack, but sometimes fall short of the
forklift. I believe that this requires some bending of the arm from
the motor to the forklift to assure that the forklift gets close
enough to the barrel rack, but any other suggestions are welcome.
The other problem is that the mechanism seems to make quite a bit of
noise as it is moving the forklift. I took off the shed and the
gears are pretty gunked up with grease. I was considering cleaning
these with tuner cleaner and then relubing. What else should I check
to see if I can quiet this down a little? Another question that I
had with the barrel loader is that there appear to be two pins in the
rod between the motor and the forklift. I am using the outer pin to
attach the forklift, what is the inner one for?

Thanks in advance for your help,
Art Goodell
Group: S-Trains Message: 21354 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: Lite Bulbs
What's the deal with bulbs? Different voltages. Different size
globes. 14 V are hotter then 18 volt. Don't want to melt the plastic cars.
Is a 1447 / 453 18 volt better or different then a 0432 / 0444 18 volt? does
it make a difference? Are the globes the same size? How about a 0430 vs. a
1449 both are 14 v, what gives? Is there a chart that shows the various and
sundry bulbs? It would make it alot easier to order bulbs if there was.
Ken

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 21355 From: David Dewey Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: Re: Lite Bulbs
Ken,
Somewhere I have a chart. The 1449/1447 bulbs are small diameter globes,
the other are large diameter. 1449 is a 14v bulb, for loco headlights, 1447
is an 18v bulb for switches, etc. The reason for the 14 V bulb in locos is
that they are seldom run at full voltage, and the smoke unit grabs a lot of
the "juice" so they don't USUALLY burn out.
Now for the problem. The imported 1449/1447 bulbs have bases that are
too "tall" by at least one thread, so they don't fit in locos, etc.!! I hope
this mistake gets fixed soon, as the domestic supply is getting scarce, or
was last time I tried to order bulbs.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21356 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: barrel loader
Some barrel loaders have an adjustable worm thrust. A small part
contacts the end of the worm shaft and limits how far forward it can
thrust. This part is held by a small set screw. When the screw is
loosened, the part can be moved in or out to optimize the mesh of the worm
and helical gear. If this is out of adjustment it may contribute to the
noise problem. it can be adjusted while the motor is running.

Cleaning old lubricants out of the gear box, which is not easy, and
lubricating the mechanism will make a huge difference.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21357 From: Don Thompson Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Fall S-Fest: Friday evening report
Dear Marty,
One real problem at many S train meets is the hotel restaurant. It is like
the hotel sales dept. never talks to the hotel restaurant. They seem to fail
to have enough servers so you see empty tables in the restaurant or they fill
the tables and then take forever to wait on you. I know we (Robin, Ron & Susan
Sebastian and myself) purposely left to eat at 7:30 PM at the Holiday Inn
restaurant in hopes that it would be quick so we could get back to our booth
for the evening sales. Two and half hours later we paid for our meals. We
waited 40 minutes to get seated (after we complained to the manager), and the
same 20 minutes to get our check after dessert. By the time I got away, the
room was closed. I am still wondering if our trains ran all night on our
layout as they were still running in the morning when I returned.
Otherwise, this was a wonderful Fest and I am not sure the CASG could have
helped with the problems with the restaurant.
Don

"Marty.Thorin" wrote:

> S-Fest Report
>
> Good morning.
> I attended the 2002 S-Fest in Tingley Park, IL. It was held at the
> Tingley Park convention center. Because of my schedule I was only able to
> attend late on Friday. I left work at 2:00 PM in Milwaukee and got to the
> south side of Chicagoland at 5:30. I was using the directions from the web
> site and this gave no clue if you were to go North or South from the closest
> interchange. The address was so new that Mapquest.com had no idea. It
> guessed South. I, of course, followed this and it was North.
> Coming back over the bridge I really needed to go the bathroom. I
> spotted the Holiday Inn on the right and decided they have bathrooms and I
> can ask for directions there. I drove in to discover the large, attached,
> gray building just to the Holiday Inn's North was the convention center.
> Right now I didn't care: I had a mission. I parked the car, went in, found
> the toilet. When I came out the world was fine again. Smiles all around.
> I was now thinking about supper. I eat by the clock and it was
> suppertime. About that time I was greeted by Dick Kloes, Gary Children, and
> Ray (Raymond) ?Something?. The first two are of Badgerland S Gaugers and I
> didn't know Ray before. The three of us went to Bananas, the restaurant in
> the Holiday Inn. Dick and Gary were disappointed they didn't have catfish
> on the menu. (I told my wife about this later. When Catherine went grocery
> shopping she purchased fresh catfish steaks.)
> We all ended up with the prime rib. Prime rib, clam chowder soup,
> basket of breads, wilted stir-fry vegetables, and a baked potato. A large
> baked potato. A very large baked potato. Each of our potatoes could have
> been carved into a tunnel for N scale. Dick got the whopper of them all.
> It was normal shape but close to a foot long! And soft and fluffy. Whoever
> cooked these knew what they were doing. Good food. Good company.
> After eating, I tried to get away as I knew the trading floor closed at
> 10:00 and I had to go home Friday night. Getting the check took forever.
> $12.00 (with tip) for a Prime Rib dinner in a motel restaurant is a good
> buy. (Of course I left my big cash at home so I had only what was already
> in my wallet.) I left Dick and company here and took off.
> Registration was easy as I had prepaided. I got my packet and started
> in. I enjoyed all of the layouts. As I hadn't ever had a chance to really
> look at the All-Aboard panels, Art Dotes' layout was appreciated. The
> others, as always, are bigger and better every time.
> I got to the trading floor. Jeff Wilson of Hoquat Hobbies was there. I
> purchased the last traction shell he had: CNS&M express motor 314. (Box
> motor with four big doors.) It came without box and almost without anything
> else. But I can figure this out. (Yes, this one too has copies of the AF
> caboose door for all of the doors: just like the North Shore coach and the
> North Shore merchandise dispatch car: Box motor with two big center doors.)
> I stressed again that I wanted to purchase 10 more steeplecab shells.
> Jeff informed me that they are gone. If I can find J. Wolf (who made them),
> maybe I can get more but Jeff's letters have gone unanswered. So I guess my
> project of building 10 (with most for sale) is dead.
> The biggest disappointment was the number of tables that had stuff but
> were covered and did not uncover that evening. Saddest was the NASG table
> as this was one of the reasons I drove a total of six and a half hours to
> get there and back! As an NASG member this was a big disappointment. CASG
> members told me John Foley was responsible for the tables. I got there at
> 6:45 PM and left at 9:45 PM. Not once during those three hours was the
> table uncovered. I wanted to examine the NASG modern building before
> purchasing one (or several). I also wanted to purchase a second standards
> gauge. I hate dealing with the mail and I hate paying shipping. All
> previous S-Fests that I have attended have always had a working NASG table
> and someone with it.
> I got the JAX blocks from S-Helper, Bob Barker's CD book from Port Line
> hobbies, two bags of the 120 MTH people, a couple of trolley books, a few
> parts, and many, many fine conversations. Tom Hodges of American Highrail
> was doing a brisk business and is out of Northern tender shells at this time
> (336). (He had about 20 frames, however.) He still hasn't cut me my water
> tender. (Don't point out Raisin River's masterpiece water tender. That
> work of art would look ridiculous behind a pure AF 336. I love my 336. I
> need something as crude as it is.) American Highrail has a brand-new
> doodlebug which looks much like the Bachman Spectrum in HO. Very nice.
> (No, I did not buy one. If it had been an interurban or MU coach, I would
> have. Probably several...)
> American Models didn't have much at their booth. But it turns out
> Karen bought Ron surprise tickets to the Stones Concert for Saturday night.
> I hope he had a good time because if I had those tickets I know I wouldn't
> have made the S-Fest either! (I can buy from Ron either direct or next
> year. I always get good support from Ron.)
> Des Plaines hobbies was also closed all evening.
>
> When I left I turned in my badge holder. (Someone else I am sure used it on
> Saturday.) I went home to bed. On Saturday I did all of the normal weekend
> stuff except mow the lawn (which is very overdue). When I could, it rained.
> Sunday saw me climb onto a plane for California. And here I am. So I
> could not have stayed for Saturday, I had to pack and catch a plane.
> Tonight (Monday) I visit Ed L's home with my steeplecabs and on Wednesday I
> go to Bill Roberts.
>
> All in all it was another successful S-Fest. If you were there I hope you
> had as much fun as I did.
> Thorin

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 21358 From: John Foley Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Fall S-Fest: Friday evening report
Hi Marty
Lets see I drove for about 13 1/2 hours in my mini-van.
Got there late Thursday night. Got to sleep about 4am Friday
morning. Got up around 7am Friday morning to setup 3 NASG
tables plus a 12, 21/2 switching layout. I was there up I went to
diner about 7:00 pm. I came back a little after 8:30 and stayed
for a little over an hour. Sorry I couldn't stay awake so I figured
I'd get some sleep. Sorry we missed each other. And thanks
for pointing out my shortcomings in this high paying job I have.
John
P.S you can still buy the buildings, just go to www.nasg.org.



> The biggest disappointment was the number of tables that had stuff but
>were covered and did not uncover that evening. Saddest was the NASG table
>as this was one of the reasons I drove a total of six and a half hours to
>get there and back! As an NASG member this was a big disappointment. CASG
>members told me John Foley was responsible for the tables. I got there at
>6:45 PM and left at 9:45 PM. Not once during those three hours was the
>table uncovered. I wanted to examine the NASG modern building before
>purchasing one (or several). I also wanted to purchase a second standards
>gauge. I hate dealing with the mail and I hate paying shipping. All
>previous S-Fests that I have attended have always had a working NASG table
>and someone with it.
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21359 From: Roy Plotnick Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: SIT unit questions
1. I have two SIT units, one has the number 3 on the bottom, the other
the number 4. They seem otherwise identical. Anyone have an idea what this
means?
2. Based on my multimeter, one unit apparently has a broken nichrome
wire. Is replacing the wire etc. the same as in a smoke-in-boiler unit?

-Roy
Group: S-Trains Message: 21360 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: SIT questions
Replacing the coil and wick in a SIT unit is actually easier than doing a
boiler unit. There is more room to work inside the unit. Coil and wick
are the same. Check out the original wick when you remove it. It is
likely to be made of horse hair.

On the unit with no continuity in the coil, try resoldering the coil
connections before replacing it. There is just a chance that you have a
cold solder joint at one terminal, not a broken coil.

The numbers may simply be mold numbers.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21361 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: Re: Lite Bulbs
Ken,
I usually use the highest practical voltage bulb I can to reduce the heat
problem.
18 V bulbs are somewhat cooler on 14 V, little loss of light, conversely, on
Flyer steamers on DC power, I use lower voltage bulbs than called for because
the engine
runs so much better on DC, therefore requires less voltage to operate.
Confusing, huh??
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21362 From: Roy Hoffman Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: NASG Building idea
After I took two NASG Armco Steel Buildings and combined them to make
a double length building, I had two extra ends. I discovered a
product that would go hand-in-hand with the extra parts to make
another building. It's the Micro Engineering Company 80-051 Roof
Panels. A $4.15 package comes with 4 sections of 9 3/4" X 2 1/8" with
1/4" seams.

The 1/4" seams are perfect for S and the Armco Building. The 2 1/8"
width is perfect as is for a roof. I used one of the four sections
for roof and another for the sides to make a 3" X 3 /12" (small)
shed, but the full length of 9 3/4" could be used to make a longer
building or, of course, any length 9 3/4" or shorter.

Roy
Group: S-Trains Message: 21363 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: Re: Interesting Items
The seller says they are made by "Spikes Equipment", a company that I am not
familiar with.
I've seen that Gerber side before in a CD kit (Cleveland Display, the
originator of American S-Gauge). Be forewarned. These are wooden kits. If
you intend to build them, plan on working at it for some time. These are
not for beginnners, but if you are an experienced builder who has time,
well, $100 seems OK to me.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21364 From: garydmccullah Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: For Sale
All the items I had listed have been sold. My thanks to all.
Gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 21365 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: American Flyer LTI Drawings and Parts lists
I have created a page with links to all of the American Flyer Drawings and
Part lists available on the Lionel web site for your convience.

Page is located at http://www.tuveson.com/manual/AFDRAWINGS.htm

Carl
Group: S-Trains Message: 21366 From: David Dewey Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: Re: Interesting Items
Yep, they look like C-D kits. The collection is likely to go to a collector,
and not built--they're just too cool! A whole case of them!!! Neat-O!
S'
David D.
PS, Yep, wood kits, take a bit of time and lots of concentration.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21367 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 10/14/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Fall S-Fest: Friday evening report
Dear Tom:
That is sad. I went past your table pretty fast and I had intended
to return. Later I noticed the time was 9:45 and my bedtime is 9:00 PM.
When I left I was punchy because of the late hour. I remember that I hadn't
revisited your table when I was well on the way back to Milwaukee.

'S'igh.
Maybe in 2003 at either the Fall S-Fest or the NASG convention.

One final comment on the building. The photo NASG is circulating is a model
that has been 'improved' by the builder in a nice, scenic setting. I don't
have the picture here in California (where I am right now) but I understand
the photo shows an extra door, an air conditioner, and other detail items
that are NOT in the kit. Bill Wade of BTS told me he is thinking of a
detail kit for the model. But without seeing the 'unimproved' model -- from
all sides -- it is a pig in a poke. I'll probably buy one just to support
the NASG.

One final comment on the NASG table. Personally I expect a CASG member
could have been found to man the table. There were a large number of these
gents in their vests that night. Plus, both the American Model's display
and S-Helper were being run by CASG members. (I made all of my S-Helper
purchases from a CASG gentleman.)

On a lighter note, the fountain outside the room had two large circles. The
lower circle had a loop of the Disney Monorail track and, of course, the
monorail. The upper circle had the Ertl train running on Ertl track.
(Loco, flat car, and caboose. The box car was absent.) That battery
powered GP-35 was quite at home with the water splashing and flowing over
its track then down the fountain. Both of these battery powered trains were
fun to watch. And it was the first time I had gotten to see the Monorail.
Whoever did this: Thanks. I enjoyed them.

Thorin

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Hawley [mailto:t.hawley@...]
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 12:37 PM
To: John Foley; Marty.Thorin
Cc: Roy Hoffman
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Fall S-Fest: Friday evening report


Mr T Marty said (among other things)
. Saddest was the NASG table
as this was one of the reasons I drove a total of six and a half hours to
get there and back! . . . . . . . . .. CASG members told me John Foley
was responsible for the tables. I wanted to examine the NASG modern
building before
purchasing one (or several). I also wanted to purchase a second standards
gauge. I hate dealing with the mail and I hate paying shipping.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And John said (among other things)
---- Original Message -----
From: "John Foley" <foley164@...>
> Hi Marty
> . . . . . . . Sorry we missed each other.> John
> P.S you can still buy the buildings, just go to www.nasg.org.
><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
To which I reply
If it will help the organization and the membership, I will buy 10 of those
building kits, at the two-for retail price (NASG pay shipping), and I will
retail them I already have the standards gauges (track & wheel gauges) in
my stock, and had Mr Marty approached the Michigan Models tables and asked,
he could have bought one.

Tom Hawley -- Michigan Models -- Lansing Michigan


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21368 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 10/15/2002
Subject: Re: Lite Bulbs
The mud clears with each post. Thanks.


Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: WJJIM@... [mailto:WJJIM@...]
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 6:39 PM
To: Stoudt,Kenneth R.; s-trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Lite Bulbs


Ken,
I usually use the highest practical voltage bulb I can to reduce the heat

problem.
18 V bulbs are somewhat cooler on 14 V, little loss of light, conversely, on

Flyer steamers on DC power, I use lower voltage bulbs than called for
because
the engine
runs so much better on DC, therefore requires less voltage to operate.
Confusing, huh??
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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+

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 21369 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/15/2002
Subject: Re: Fall S-Fest: Friday evening report
So Thorin:
What are your plans for the next few days? Any planned pee stops we might
like to know about? The wife buy anything at the supermarket that might be
of interest?

In your report, once it got to trains, I was surprised to see that Hodgson
is busy again. Did you happen to chat with him about York? Will he be
there? I want a water tender too and I was tempted to fork 500 over for the
River Raisin version I saw on E-Bay, but I could hardly justify it behind a
link couplered 332DC!

Tom is so damn unreliable that I have given up on getting anything from him.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21370 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/15/2002
Subject: York meets
Hi,

What happens to the York pick-up meets in the parking lots on a rain-out day like tomorrow? Are there some indoor meets on Wednesday?

Thanks,
Tim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21371 From: gino restivo Date: 10/15/2002
Subject: Re: York , no rain inside meets
you can always go to the reliance fire hall , just west of the fair grounds
on monday to thursday , shuttle service goes their ........
some high quality flyer their ...a few O sets ( 3/16 ) with o/b , too
pricey
for me ..... plenty of parts ... decent food

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Brown <>
To: S-List <>
Date: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 9:13 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] York meets


>Hi,
>
>What happens to the York pick-up meets in the parking lots on a rain-out
day like tomorrow? Are there some indoor meets on Wednesday?
>
>Thanks,
>Tim
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

-------------------------------------------
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21372 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 10/15/2002
Subject: New Jet Train
http://www.bombardier.com/index.jsp?id=1_0&lang=en&file=/en/1_0/1_0.jsp

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Group: S-Trains Message: 21373 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 10/16/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1613
Miniature Lamps:
1417 18 v draws .15 amps, 1.5 candle power, 7/16 " dia.
15/16" overall length, 250 hr. life
1449 14 v draws .20 amps, 2.0 candle power, 7/16 " dia.
15/16" overall length, 250 hr. life.

At full voltage the higher amperage will burn hotter. ( Data from G.E.)

Jerry 77-11644


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Group: S-Trains Message: 21374 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/16/2002
Subject: Re: York meets
The Billy Budd east of the fairgrounds near the interstate has a large
room for indoor tables plus a tent near the parking lot. Last year the
parking lot display was quite small and the tent was smaller than
usual. The big motel west of the fairgrounds (Holiday Inn?) has a huge
room but no tent. The parking lot sale was a large operation. The
small motel in the middle was a pathetic remnant of past meets last year
and not worth visiting. The ball room downtown is indoors but also was
somewhat smaller than past years last October.

Tim Brown wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> What happens to the York pick-up meets in the parking lots on a rain-out day like tomorrow? Are there some indoor meets on Wednesday?
>
> Thanks,
> Tim
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21375 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/16/2002
Subject: Re: York meets
Hi,

I went to the Reliance Fire Hall in York this morning and found a parking spot. The show was pretty good. The food was also good and reasonably priced. There was no admission charge. I found a couple nice things. The shuttle bus ran to the three motels for $1 a stop. There was no admission charge anywhere I went. There were lots of trains, even though the outside trading was curtailed due to the rain. I thought this trip was definitely worth the time. Nice tune-up for the TCA show on Friday/Saturday.

Thanks to all who recommended it.

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Smith
To: Tim Brown
Cc: S-List
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] York meets


The Billy Budd east of the fairgrounds near the interstate has a large
room for indoor tables plus a tent near the parking lot. Last year the
parking lot display was quite small and the tent was smaller than
usual. The big motel west of the fairgrounds (Holiday Inn?) has a huge
room but no tent. The parking lot sale was a large operation. The
small motel in the middle was a pathetic remnant of past meets last year
and not worth visiting. The ball room downtown is indoors but also was
somewhat smaller than past years last October.

Tim Brown wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> What happens to the York pick-up meets in the parking lots on a rain-out day like tomorrow? Are there some indoor meets on Wednesday?
>
> Thanks,
> Tim
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21376 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 10/16/2002
Subject: Paul Yorke's Site
Any Idea about the message I got when I went to Paul's new site?
It read "You've been paved" Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21377 From: Gerry Evans Date: 10/16/2002
Subject: Fw: Cleaning House
----- Original Message -----
From: Gerry Evans

UPDATE: Thought I'd send this out a second time for any who may have missed it earlier. The heavy Mike is gone, but the Berk is still available.




As I doubt I will ever get around to completing these engines, I thought I'd offer them to someone who might want to take shot at building a brass engine. The original source for these kits is the old S Scale Loco and Supply of St. Louis when the company was still owned by Claud Wade. I would hate to see these kits become part of an estate sale sometime in the future.

These are S scale. I will not piece-out either engine as I feel there is some historic significance associated with the kits. These kits are no longer available and probably won't be for the foreseeable future. To avoid shipping charges, I plan to attend the S West IV in Stockton, CA October 24-26 and can make the kits available then.

Kit #1: SOLD
Alco C&O K-3 Heavy Mike 2-8-2 with a Vandy Tender. Includes complete instructions for engine and tender. Also includes SSL&S Parts Instruction Book which gives generic instructions for engine and tender construction. Drive wheels are quartered, run-in with side rods attached, and mounted in the brass frame. No other work has been done on this engine. All parts as originally packed by SSL&S included--a total engine and tender assembly. Asking $500 plus shipping.

Kit #2:
Nickel Plate S-3 Berkshire 2-8-4 with tender. Includes complete instructions for engine. Also includes SSL&S Parts Instruction Book which gives generic instructions for engine and tender construction. Drive wheels are quartered, run-in with side rods attached, and mounted in the brass frame. Engine construction is about one-third complete including boiler with cab attached, pilot assembly, trucks, compressor shield, and other sub assemblies. Tender is untouched. All parts as originally packed by SSL&S included--a total engine and tender assembly. Asking $600 plus shipping.

Please contact me off-list at either cujoacat@... or 928-214-9054.

Gerry Evans


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21378 From: Uncle Thor Date: 10/16/2002
Subject: HO Shelf Layout Plans Posted
Just posted - layout plans for holiday display layouts. There are
plans for S and for O / O27, HO, N, G and Standard gauge. The S
plans use American Flyer track, although you can also use the S-Trax
from S Helper instead. The idea was to get appealing action in a
very small area 4' by 4' to 5' by 4' Just go to
http://www.thortrains.net and scroll down to your favorite gauge to
find the link.

Happy Railroading!

Thor
Group: S-Trains Message: 21379 From: Uncle Thor Date: 10/16/2002
Subject: Wrong heading - should be Holiday Display Layouts
Sorry about that - my previous post announbces HO shelf layouts, when
it is in fact the holiday display layouts for S, O, O27, HO, N, G and
Standard gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 21380 From: keith kuzma Date: 10/17/2002
Subject: SAM BULB
What is the bulb number fo SAM? Keith

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 21381 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 10/17/2002
Subject: My comments on S-Fest
This is a private message to only NASG members!

I have been taken to task by several NASG members for posting comments about
S-Fest on our public forums S-Trains and S-Scale. I admit I am guilty of
calling a spade a spade. (i.e. the NASG table not being open Friday night
at S-Fest which made me sad.) Apparently they consider this to be 'airing
our dirty laundry in public'.

I will not name names but if we are not to say things that didn't go perfect
then:
1. Where is the inclusiveness that defines us? Our logo says "United".
2. How do we improve?
3. Where is the NASG members only e-mail forum that you have to use
your NASG membership number as your ID with password? Who is paying for it
/ is going to pay for it? Who is volunteering to moderate it?

Paul York is doing a fantastic job, IMHO, in the S-Trains and S-Scale lists.
I don't write letters, I don't think to phone except at times when it would
be unhealthy for my friendships to call.

Also, if you notice, the negative portion was a small part of the report.
As I stated in the original post "Another successful S-Fest."

Disappointed,
Thorin (first name)
Marty (last name)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21382 From: John Foley Date: 10/17/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] My comments on S-Fest
Thorin
Its time to drop this subject. All I am going to say is I did reopen
Friday night. Anyway since you think the NASG could use some
improvement why not run for office. Lets see you could run for
Secretary Executive Vice President or Central Vice President. Send
you Nomination to Jamie Bothwell, mrbarker@... It must be
200 words or less and sent in before the end of this month. If you don't
want to run for office contact our President Roy Hoffman, royhoffman@...
He is looking for Committee Chairmen and members.
John



At 08:55 AM 10/17/02 -0500, Marty.Thorin wrote:
>This is a private message to only NASG members!
>
>I have been taken to task by several NASG members for posting comments about
>S-Fest on our public forums S-Trains and S-Scale. I admit I am guilty of
>calling a spade a spade. (i.e. the NASG table not being open Friday night
>at S-Fest which made me sad.) Apparently they consider this to be 'airing
>our dirty laundry in public'.
>
>I will not name names but if we are not to say things that didn't go perfect
>then:
>1. Where is the inclusiveness that defines us? Our logo says "United".
>2. How do we improve?
>3. Where is the NASG members only e-mail forum that you have to use
>your NASG membership number as your ID with password? Who is paying for it
>/ is going to pay for it? Who is volunteering to moderate it?
>
>Paul York is doing a fantastic job, IMHO, in the S-Trains and S-Scale lists.
>I don't write letters, I don't think to phone except at times when it would
>be unhealthy for my friendships to call.
>
>Also, if you notice, the negative portion was a small part of the report.
>As I stated in the original post "Another successful S-Fest."
>
>Disappointed,
>Thorin (first name)
>Marty (last name)
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>To see or post Photos visit
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
>or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
>To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21383 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/17/2002
Subject: More York
Hi,

I spent the morning in York again today. I figured since it was nice out, the outside vendors would be set up. I was right. I think if I go next April, I'll just cut to the chase and go directly to the Holidome Holiday Inn. That's where the large outside and inside meet is held.

-Tim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21384 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/17/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] My comments on S-Fest
IMHO, a person still has the right to complain, even if they don't aspire to office.
-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: John Foley
To: Marty.Thorin ; S-Scale (E-mail) ; S-Trains (E-mail)
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 11:57 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: [S-Scale] My comments on S-Fest


Thorin
Its time to drop this subject. All I am going to say is I did reopen
Friday night. Anyway since you think the NASG could use some
improvement why not run for office. Lets see you could run for
Secretary Executive Vice President or Central Vice President. Send
you Nomination to Jamie Bothwell, mrbarker@... It must be
200 words or less and sent in before the end of this month. If you don't
want to run for office contact our President Roy Hoffman, royhoffman@...
He is looking for Committee Chairmen and members.
John



At 08:55 AM 10/17/02 -0500, Marty.Thorin wrote:
>This is a private message to only NASG members!
>
>I have been taken to task by several NASG members for posting comments about
>S-Fest on our public forums S-Trains and S-Scale. I admit I am guilty of
>calling a spade a spade. (i.e. the NASG table not being open Friday night
>at S-Fest which made me sad.) Apparently they consider this to be 'airing
>our dirty laundry in public'.
>
>I will not name names but if we are not to say things that didn't go perfect
>then:
>1. Where is the inclusiveness that defines us? Our logo says "United".
>2. How do we improve?
>3. Where is the NASG members only e-mail forum that you have to use
>your NASG membership number as your ID with password? Who is paying for it
>/ is going to pay for it? Who is volunteering to moderate it?
>
>Paul York is doing a fantastic job, IMHO, in the S-Trains and S-Scale lists.
>I don't write letters, I don't think to phone except at times when it would
>be unhealthy for my friendships to call.
>
>Also, if you notice, the negative portion was a small part of the report.
>As I stated in the original post "Another successful S-Fest."
>
>Disappointed,
>Thorin (first name)
>Marty (last name)
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>To see or post Photos visit
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
>or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
>To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21385 From: John Foley Date: 10/17/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] My comments on S-Fest
Hi Tim
Your 100% right, if their facts are true.
John



At 12:32 PM 10/17/02 -0400, Tim Brown wrote:
>IMHO, a person still has the right to complain, even if they don't aspire
>to office.
>-Tim
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:foley164@...>John Foley
>To: <mailto:thorin.marty@...>Marty.Thorin ;
><mailto:S-Scale@yahoogroups.com>S-Scale (E-mail) ;
><mailto:S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>S-Trains (E-mail)
>Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 11:57 AM
>Subject: [S-Trains] Re: [S-Scale] My comments on S-Fest
>
>Thorin
> Its time to drop this subject. All I am going to say is I did
> reopen
>Friday night. Anyway since you think the NASG could use some
>improvement why not run for office. Lets see you could run for
>Secretary Executive Vice President or Central Vice President. Send
>you Nomination to Jamie
>Bothwell, <mailto:mrbarker@...>mrbarker@... It must be
>200 words or less and sent in before the end of this month. If you don't
>want to run for office contact our President Roy Hoffman,
><mailto:royhoffman@...>royhoffman@...
>He is looking for Committee Chairmen and members.
>John
>
>
>
>
>
>At 08:55 AM 10/17/02 -0500, Marty.Thorin wrote:
> >This is a private message to only NASG members!
> >
> >I have been taken to task by several NASG members for posting comments
> about
> >S-Fest on our public forums S-Trains and S-Scale. I admit I am guilty of
> >calling a spade a spade. (i.e. the NASG table not being open Friday night
> >at S-Fest which made me sad.) Apparently they consider this to be 'airing
> >our dirty laundry in public'.
> >
> >I will not name names but if we are not to say things that didn't go
> perfect
> >then:
> >1. Where is the inclusiveness that defines us? Our logo says
> "United".
> >2. How do we improve?
> >3. Where is the NASG members only e-mail forum that you have to use
> >your NASG membership number as your ID with password? Who is paying for it
> >/ is going to pay for it? Who is volunteering to moderate it?
> >
> >Paul York is doing a fantastic job, IMHO, in the S-Trains and S-Scale
> lists.
> >I don't write letters, I don't think to phone except at times when it would
> >be unhealthy for my friendships to call.
> >
> >Also, if you notice, the negative portion was a small part of the report.
> >As I stated in the original post "Another successful S-Fest."
> >
> >Disappointed,
> >Thorin (first name)
> >Marty (last name)
> >
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >To see or post Photos visit
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
> >or
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
>
> >To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to
> <mailto:s-scale-unsubscribe@...>s-scale-unsubscribe@...
>
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor:
><http://www.americanflyertrains.com>http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
><mailto:s-trains-unsubscribe@...>s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21386 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/17/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] My comments on S-Fest
Hi,

Doesn't matter if his facts are straight or not, IMHO. He ain't got to show no stinking badge.

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: John Foley
To: Tim Brown ; Marty.Thorin ; S-Scale (E-mail) ; S-Trains (E-mail)
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: [S-Scale] My comments on S-Fest


Hi Tim
Your 100% right, if their facts are true.
John



At 12:32 PM 10/17/02 -0400, Tim Brown wrote:
>IMHO, a person still has the right to complain, even if they don't aspire
>to office.
>-Tim
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:foley164@...>John Foley
>To: <mailto:thorin.marty@...>Marty.Thorin ;
><mailto:S-Scale@yahoogroups.com>S-Scale (E-mail) ;
><mailto:S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>S-Trains (E-mail)
>Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 11:57 AM
>Subject: [S-Trains] Re: [S-Scale] My comments on S-Fest
>
>Thorin
> Its time to drop this subject. All I am going to say is I did
> reopen
>Friday night. Anyway since you think the NASG could use some
>improvement why not run for office. Lets see you could run for
>Secretary Executive Vice President or Central Vice President. Send
>you Nomination to Jamie
>Bothwell, <mailto:mrbarker@...>mrbarker@... It must be
>200 words or less and sent in before the end of this month. If you don't
>want to run for office contact our President Roy Hoffman,
><mailto:royhoffman@...>royhoffman@...
>He is looking for Committee Chairmen and members.
>John
>
>
>
>
>
>At 08:55 AM 10/17/02 -0500, Marty.Thorin wrote:
> >This is a private message to only NASG members!
> >
> >I have been taken to task by several NASG members for posting comments
> about
> >S-Fest on our public forums S-Trains and S-Scale. I admit I am guilty of
> >calling a spade a spade. (i.e. the NASG table not being open Friday night
> >at S-Fest which made me sad.) Apparently they consider this to be 'airing
> >our dirty laundry in public'.
> >
> >I will not name names but if we are not to say things that didn't go
> perfect
> >then:
> >1. Where is the inclusiveness that defines us? Our logo says
> "United".
> >2. How do we improve?
> >3. Where is the NASG members only e-mail forum that you have to use
> >your NASG membership number as your ID with password? Who is paying for it
> >/ is going to pay for it? Who is volunteering to moderate it?
> >
> >Paul York is doing a fantastic job, IMHO, in the S-Trains and S-Scale
> lists.
> >I don't write letters, I don't think to phone except at times when it would
> >be unhealthy for my friendships to call.
> >
> >Also, if you notice, the negative portion was a small part of the report.
> >As I stated in the original post "Another successful S-Fest."
> >
> >Disappointed,
> >Thorin (first name)
> >Marty (last name)
> >
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >To see or post Photos visit
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
> >or
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
>
> >To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to
> <mailto:s-scale-unsubscribe@...>s-scale-unsubscribe@...
>
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor:
><http://www.americanflyertrains.com>http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
><mailto:s-trains-unsubscribe@...>s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21387 From: Doug Peck Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Re: Hall hours
<<<Each year, a few of us outspoken dealers try to convince the upcoming
convention hosts to adjust the dealer room hours, but not much headway
has been made. At least at the last NASG, the Thursday hours of
9AM-10PM had a brief shutdown for dinner!>>>

<<< Sn3 show room floor is open about 8 or 9 AM until noon then closed for 6
hours. Then you get lunch, tours and dinner and be back by 6 PM to open
tables. Gee it has only worked for 18-20 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!
>>>

As someone pointed out, this discussion is a "regular" pitstop when it comes
to conventions. Every convention seems to be different, and NEVER is
everyone happy.
Re: the recent S-Fest, I hesitate to jump into this, but I will. First, I
want to say that this was my first S-Fest. With retirement from teaching, I
was finally able to venture to S-Fest this fall for the first time, and it
was a great experience. The hosts did a wonderful job of organizing the
event, and the location was excellent. The public showing of layouts on
Saturday was a great idea.....I hope it drew well.
That said, my comments on hall hours: We ("We" meaning my helper and me.
Normally it would have been my wife, but she could not get enough time off
from her job to accompany me, so I brought along a fellow retiree!)drove 17
hours to get to S-Fest from the Boston area. We were then up by 7 AM Friday
morning to begin hauling in boxes and setting up. We had barely finished the
task by 2 PM when the hall opened. We were then pretty much pinned to our
tables until 9 PM that evening. In that time, I had a couple of cups of
coffee.....period. The one time I snuck away to the lunch cart in the lobby,
the line was so long (and slow, since there was only one attendant) that I
gave up and went back to my tables. By 9 PM, I'd had it, and we covered up
the tables and departed for dinner. ----Yes, folks....GUILTY.....we covered
an hour early and left!
John had every right to do the same, after his long hours there.
I am not complaining about anyone in the host club, NASG, or anything
else....I am just stating how it was, for me, and how I chose to handle it.
At first glance, I DO like the sounds of those Sn3 hall hours. Seems to me
that would be a win-win situation for everyone, especially if they were
consistently maintained from year-to-year. Of course, we could then start a
pool on how long it woould take after the event ended before the first
show-hours complaint was aired!

Bottom-line: S-Fest 2002 was a terrific event, and I compliment all the
organizers of it.
I look forward to St Louis in 2003 !

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours - Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays: 2-5 PM (EST), and 7-9 PM.
Saturdays: 2-5 PM.
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please.)
Website: www.portlines.com
E-mail: doug@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 21388 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: If nominated I will not run...
If elected, I will not serve" -- General Sherman in about 1865.

Gentlemen:
I would like to run for NASG office but right now I will not for
personal reasons. I have a wife fighting cancer, a three year old, and a
ten year old with special needs. I work full time. So please do not
nominate me.

If elected anyway, I will not run the tables, fill the envelopes, answer the
phone nor the mail.

Ten years from now I expect my life will have greatly settled down relative
to now. But if I were elected today, I would quickly become known as 'do
nothing Marty'. BECAUSE I WOULD EARN THAT TITLE! So, to avoid everyone's
disappointment (including my own), I will not accept an NASG office at this
time.
This year was even worse than usual: sick wife, young kids, flight
to California on Sunday. But normally even I could volunteer for a couple
of hours. (And not just for NASG -- anything or anybody at an S-Fest that
helps make it a better Fest: if you think I am competent for that job.)

I've said too much. Time to switch subjects.

I've visited both Ed L. and Bill Roberts. Ed's layout is a mess: major
scenery construction going on and it will be better than ever! We spent a
lot of time discussing buildings as I am planning a new module and need
buildings. (Got the Blue Angle Smoke Shop!) I mailed 40 and 41 (the
steeplecabs), my 1970s built, Kinsman Heinz 57 reefer, plus a repainted AF
caboose 21 some BSGer moved the coupula on. Ed took photos of them before I
got there. They also served me a delicious meal! I got lost three times
getting there and forgot my camera in the motel room, but overall it was a
wonderful time!
Visiting Bill was not as good and it was ALL my fault. I ate a
light supper before I went into town via BART. Big mistake. I should have
eaten my normal supper. There were two 20 minute delays before I got to
Franciscan Hobbies. By the time I got there (if I had been thinking) I
should have eaten a candy bar. (But thinking is not a feature of low blood
sugar diabetics.) So I was NOT my best. I got several books on Bay Area
electrics and one on the Sacramento Northern! (Now I just need one on the
Oregon Electric and then I can get some basic history on these lines.) Such
books are hard to find in the Midwest. I also purchased three copies of RMC
(with the NASG add) and a CTT 1/64 scale ruler.
Bill and I went back to his home for a wonderful late dinner. (Too
late for my blood sugars.) He was the greatest host. His layout is a very
nice scale layout with some fantastic track work. 40, 41, 57, and 21 graced
his rails too. I got to see his new pride and joy: an AM SP trainmaster.
Beautiful! We spend a good deal of FUN time discussing "What would I do for
S Scale if I won the lottery". My number one idea is to put a starter set
into the trunk of every new Honda, Ford, GM, BMW, etc. sold. Think of it!
Millions of cars are sold each year so millions of S Gauge starter sets!
Bill drove me back to the BART station and it was much faster getting back.
(Of course, by then my blood sugars were back up and I was a pleasant person
again: just when leaving. Sigh.) I also brought the camera but forgot to
USE it.
Yesterday I mailed 40, 41, 57, and 21 back to Milwaukee plus the
books I purchased.
Today I finish my training and go back into the City for fun (via
BART of course).

Overall it has been a good trip. I than Ed and Bill for being such gracious
hosts. (But with the family issues listed above I would have rather stayed
home. But since I had to go for business reasons... LETS HAVE SOME FUN!)

Keep "S"miling!
Thorin



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21389 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Semaphore Ladder
Hi Guys, I'm the proud owner of a sadly neglected AF # 761 semaphore. I
have restored everything accept the metal ladder from the base up to the
flag. Do any of you have a ladder you might be willing to part with. I
can't send pics as the ladder is gone as in rusted away. Thanks for your
help. Please contact me off list if you have the ladder.

Kenneth Stoudt
1016 South 12th Street
Allentown, PA 18103
P 610-437-6087

+
Group: S-Trains Message: 21390 From: David Dewey Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Re: Semaphore Ladder
Good luck Ken,
The ladder is probably the weakest link in the semaphore, as it easily
breaks at the top where it goes into the light housing. Maybe someone with
metal stamping tools and experience can make up some repros. Hmm, maybe MTH
can be convinced that it would be a swell accessory for O gauge trains
too--more to scale(for O) than the L one!
The other tough part for them is the light socket, but I believe these
are now reproduced.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21391 From: downtowndeco Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Out of production kits.
Every once in awhile someone will call and ask for our S Scale kits.
I sold I had years ago but testerday I was talking to a shop that
have both our Fallberg Station & Blue Angel in S. Call Al at Tony's
if you are interested. 973-857-2337.

Randy
Downtown Deco
Group: S-Trains Message: 21392 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1616
SAM lamp (A.F.# 452) is a GE #1402, This same lamp exists as a #1401
frosted. This is a 14v lamp. You might want to put a diode in line with
the lamp to reduce the voltage to increase it's life. Gilbert must have
used this lamp (14v) it is the only lamp 7/16" dia. x 21/32". there is a
G.E.# 335 28v (aircraft) that will fit, you might try, last hope try a
12v H.O. headlight lamp, don't know the number, it was used in cheep H.O.
locomotives A.H.M. etc. use with a diode
Jerry 77-11644

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Group: S-Trains Message: 21393 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Two Sides
There clearly are two sides to the dealer room
question.
On one hand, the customer, the convention (or meet)
goer would like it to be like a department store with
posted hours where he could pick his own time to go
shop and see everything, buy what pleases him.
As Thorin pointed out, he stopped to eat before he
entered the trading floor. He found things to be GOOD,
but was dissapointed that some dealers happened to not
be open at the time he was there. Perhaps a sign on
the table "Gone for dinner, be back....." would have
been a nice idea.
As Doug pointed out, dealers must get there early to
set up. They unpack the boxes and set things up ( No
Riggers Union doing that work)(couldn't afford that
anyhow). So, it's a long day for the dealers if there
is no set dinner break for the show.
I was glad to see a report on the show. I didn't see
it as negative, even questioning who wasn't there at
his convienience. It was just one man's overview of
the show at the time he had been able to be there. He
was wishing that he had been able to spend more time
there, but seemed happy to have gotten to see what he
did. Others may have seen the show differntly, but
they didn't post a report for those of us who didn't
get there at all.
We hear a lot about York on this list, those of us who
are not TCA members can't go to that. Only time and
distance keep us away from the S Fest. Both have
things that a lot of us would like to see. The reports
help keep us up on what is out there. I hope more
people can go to all of them, that S products sell
well and we grow a new generation of S people be they
in scale, highrail, or whatever.
jfred

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Group: S-Trains Message: 21394 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Re: Semaphore Ladder
Thanks for your support.


Ken


-----Original Message-----
From: David Dewey [mailto:djdewey@...]
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 10:48 AM
To: S-Scale (E-mail); S-Trains (E-mail); Stoudt,Kenneth R.
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Semaphore Ladder


Good luck Ken,
The ladder is probably the weakest link in the semaphore, as it easily
breaks at the top where it goes into the light housing. Maybe someone with
metal stamping tools and experience can make up some repros. Hmm, maybe MTH
can be convinced that it would be a swell accessory for O gauge trains
too--more to scale(for O) than the L one!
The other tough part for them is the light socket, but I believe these
are now reproduced.
S'
David D.


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Group: S-Trains Message: 21395 From: rfgiardina Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Re: Semaphore Ladder
The ladders are manufactured by RFG.

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Stoudt,Kenneth R." <STOUDTKR@a...> wrote:
> Hi Guys, I'm the proud owner of a sadly neglected AF # 761
semaphore. I
> have restored everything accept the metal ladder from the base up
to the
> flag. Do any of you have a ladder you might be willing to part
with. I
> can't send pics as the ladder is gone as in rusted away. Thanks
for your
> help. Please contact me off list if you have the ladder.
>
> Kenneth Stoudt
> 1016 South 12th Street
> Allentown, PA 18103
> P 610-437-6087
>
> +
Group: S-Trains Message: 21396 From: rfgiardina Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1616
#1402 are still available.

RFG


--- In S-Trains@y..., Gerald R Dobbs <grdobbs@j...> wrote:
>
> SAM lamp (A.F.# 452) is a GE #1402, This same lamp exists
as a #1401
> frosted. This is a 14v lamp. You might want to put a diode in line
with
> the lamp to reduce the voltage to increase it's life. Gilbert must
have
> used this lamp (14v) it is the only lamp 7/16" dia. x 21/32". there
is a
> G.E.# 335 28v (aircraft) that will fit, you might try, last hope
try a
> 12v H.O. headlight lamp, don't know the number, it was used in
cheep H.O.
> locomotives A.H.M. etc. use with a diode
> Jerry 77-11644
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21397 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Sad news
Hi everybody,

Those of you that were looking forward to meeting or greeting Jess Bennett at

S-West IV will not be able to do so. His wife took a nasty fall a couple of
days ago and is not expected to recover. Needless to say, he will not be
traveling to Stockton with us.
We still look forward to meeting those of you attending, but it will be with
a heavy heart. You believers out there may find a word or two in your prayers
for Jess and his wife.

Regards....Steve & Sam..........S-'n-S Trains.........Boise, Idaho




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21398 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Digest Number 1398
In a message dated 10/18/2002 6:11:03 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
S-Scale@yahoogroups.com writes:

>
> From: Ed &Judi Loizeaux <loizeaux@...>
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 1397
>
> Who will be working the NASG booth at the S-WEST IV convention????
>
Well, Ed, my guess is "nobody," since I don't remember any NASG booth at
S-West III In Coeur 'd Alene, Idaho in 1998. I guess the remoteness from the
S-Gauge model train center of the world (read Eastern US) was the reason.
It's a long way to travel for them, just like it is an impossible task for a
non flyer like myself to attend the Eastern shows. I hope John or someone has
sent NASG literature to a person or persons to give out at the convention. I
know NASG sends stuff to our train shows here in the Northwest.

Cheers.........Steve.....NASG, TCA, RMHR



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21399 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Hudson Pilot Coupler Conversion
Double heading engines is now possible with this conversion to the Pilot
casting of an American Flyer Hudson. The finished project makes a
respectable looking Cow Catcher, obviously not scale, it still has a nice
finished look to it and works very well pulling and pushing even through "S"
curves.

Here is a link:

http://www.tuveson.com/HudsonCplr/hudson_pilot_coupler_conversion.htm

I have a new url to my site now that will be easier to remember.
It is http://www.americanflyer.info

Carl
Group: S-Trains Message: 21400 From: Rick Evans Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Sad news
***(((Those of you that were looking forward to meeting or greeting Jess Bennett.
His wife took a nasty fall a couple of days ago and is not expected to recover. Needless to say, he will not be
traveling to Stockton with us. )))***

That is sad, so very sad! I never know quite what to say at times like this,...
but I hope Jess and his family find the strength to get through this.

Rick.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21401 From: wintermutedm Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: S-Fest
I guess I should put in my 2 cents worth on the S-Fest...

Living (and working) in Chicago, I decided to take the family on
Saturday, later in the day. Because I worked on Friday, we dicided
not to go until Saturday, and because of 2 small boys, we arrived
around 12:30, which actually worked out great: we got in for 5 bucks!
(compared to a usual fee of 12 or so for the GMWTS). Room by room
description: entry hall was great... my wife loved the erector-set
setups (kinda wish the parachute set could have worked...). That
might be another collector-direction to take some day (after those
winning lotto numbers...). The Sn3 layout was quite nice as well.
This was actually my introduction to Sn3, and I was quite surprised
how small it was! The Waterfountain train setup was also a neat
idea: my son Nathan liked the clear tunnels the lowest level train
went through for some reason.

The layout room was also pretty cool... though I noticed only some of
the modules on the Badgerland layout had accessories kids could run
(at least, those were the only ones I found in the room). Nathan and
Joshua thought the sawmill was pretty neat... perhaps another
addition to the "industry" area of my work in progress back home.
Nathan was also interested in the big outdoor fountain, which, of
course, had nothing to do with why we were there.

After the layouts, we dove into the sales area. Even as late in the
day as it was, there were still plenty of trains out. I was slightly
disappointed that there was not a Thomas train left at the Putt
table: have to go to hte web-site for that now. I did like the
docksider though. After browsing around, I finally found a nice 977
Flyer brakeman caboose, and got a great deal on it (I thought at
least). THat took most of my available cash, so I thought i was
pretty safe. My wife, however, found a great Frontiersman set, and
liked it a lot (she doesnt understand why I have to have "more than
one of those ugly black engines"). I thought I was pretty safe, as
it was far beyond my available cash, until I saw the credit card
sign. Dealers: if you really want to catch impulse buying, take the
cards..... anyway, we left, happy, with the frontiersman and brakeman
caboose. True to style, I finally hooked up one of the three loops
on my layout, and got the old franklin working and smoking away,
which runs now with his 3 cars and that 977 caboose (ok, so cabeese
arent really supposed to follow up passenger trains, but I, i mean my
son, likes watching the little fat guy going in and out of his
caboose).

All told, I thought it was a pretty good setup. Lots of trains (even
late in the day!) neat layouts, and good deals. Lots of expensive
trains too (what I wouldnt consider good deals) but that happens
anywhere. Only thing I could think of to make it better is more
accessories kids can make work!

Thanks for listening to my 2 cents.
denny
Group: S-Trains Message: 21402 From: Lee Johnson Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: S-west IV Convention Car Order Form
For those of you interested in S rolling stock, the S-West IV convention car
can be ordered using the order form on the S-West IV web site located at

http://home.pacbell.net/meldridg/bass

The convention car is a Pacific Rail Shops 40' double door box car painted
for Western Pacific, and is available in both scale and hi-rail (AF
compatible) versions.

Lee Johnson
Group: S-Trains Message: 21403 From: Jay E. Mellon Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Fall S Fest - View From The Hinterlands
Dear S Folk,

Since I enjoy learning of news from S events that I cannot attend, I thought I would return the service. This recap is merely my observations and thoughts on the recent S Fest in Chicago and is not meant to be all inclusive. There just wasn't time to see and visit with everyone to the extent I would have liked.

Another club member (Larry) and I headed off early on Friday morning via Southwest Air and arrived in Chicago about 10 a.m. without any delay. We picked up our luggage and a rental car and proceeded to the event hotel, again without much trouble. We briefly poked around in the convention area and quickly decided we were merely in the way of vendors getting set up in time for the 2:00 start. So, we headed off to the hotel restaurant to grab some lunch. We didn't encounter the problems that others have described on Friday evening. We managed to get a decent dinner in a timely fashion at the local Cracker Barrel, though it was difficult to find, despite being directly across the road from the hotel (Tinley Park has ridiculous sign restrictions). We wandered back to the show room. Brief news descriptions for some selected vendors follow.

American HiRail - Tom Hodgson is alive and well. I have read and heard about this vendor, but never seen his product. Some very nice stuff. He had the AeroTrain, PAs, Hiawatha (Atlantic) conversion kits with passenger cars, and a neat little "doodlebug" painted up for several different road names (RTR). I picked up a Dash-8 shell and Larry acquired a very nice Dreyfus Hudson shell with tender.
American Models - Supposed to be there, but I never could find them. Not to worry. There was plenty of AM product available at other vendors.
Cryer Gray Foundry - They had O scale models of the hoppers they plan to offer in S. Simply gorgeous. Incredible detail.
Des Plaines Hobbies/S Scale America - Ron Sebastian had his tank cars and hoppers, as well as an excellent selection of s decals available. I picked a UP set for my Dash-8.
John Huster - He had the new selection of SHS-produced cars on display. They were very tempting.
Model Tech - A new manufacturer for me. They propose to produce some very nice-looking wooden structure kits.
NASG - John Foley had the new NASG building (modern shed), as well as a mock up of the next modular offering. Looks like a product S modelers will be interested in.
Old Motor Trucks - I had read about this guy in the Dispatch from the NASG convention this summer (I think). He had some gorgeous models and very unique. These are custom-built and pricey. But you won't find them in the local WalMart. I sprang for a tank truck.
Port Lines Hobbies - Doug Peck had his usual complete line of parts and other goodies on display. I picked up the retrofit gear for the MTH coal loader.
Putt Trains - It was great to finally meet Terry Putt. The new Docksider (0-4-0) looked and ran great. I picked up a Rex tender that I have been wanting for some time.
R.S.S.V.P. Models - Jerry Rivit was one of the high points of the '98 NASG convention in Worcester, MA for me, so it was great to see him again. He had a whole bunch of gorgeous Downs (MMT) tank cars with him. Since I am partial to tank cars, I had to pick some more up. I am convinced that if S modelers could see these cars one-on-one, they would fly off the shelves.
River Raisin Models - Dan and Jim had the new steam engines. Very nice. Also, they were running the Turbine on SHS S trax (29" radius). Simply stunning. I am mainly partial to MoPac, but it got me to thinking.
S Helper Service - Always great to visit with Robin and Don Thompson. I scored some catalogs and newsletters for show distribution. Now that Don is "retired", he will get back to work on the steam engine (2-8-0). I also saw the new composite hopper and steel-roofed reefers. They are as beautiful in person as they appear in the photos. Due to the recent dock unloading problems on the West Coast, the F-7s will be delayed (hopefully not too long). The 2003 catalog should be out soon.
Scenery Unlimited (HH Pub.) - I picked up a copy of the new book, American Flyer: Classic Toy Trains and had it signed by a co-author. Very nice book if you are interested in the history of AF. It is not a guide book.

Some general observations on the vendor/trading room activities. My interest in AF began to wane several years ago, but if AF is your thing, this was Valhalla. I have never seen so much AF product sitting on tables. In Louisiana, we are lucky to see maybe one table of this kind of stuff at a local show. The prices for most seemed somewhat high to me, but, admittedly, I am not an active collector and have never been to York. There were some deals to be had, but you had to search them out. Larry scored a good deal on some structure kits. John Heck seemed to be doing decent business. As usual, the LTI AF product did not seem to move.

Show Layouts - The lobby displays were very interesting, especially the All ABoard panel layout. I have seen a few examples of these, but this was a spectacular display of the last gasp of Gilbert's creative forces. I also greatly enjoyed the Sn3 and SMSG layouts.

Train Races - I have read about this activity, but never witnessed it. The modular layout was turned into a drag strip. All that was missing was the countdown light sequence. Seemed to me that folks were having fun with their toy trains, which is what they were built for.

Clinics - The high point here for me was the presentation by Charlie Wickhorst. After his regular act, he proceeded to give a hands-on tutorial on modeling car loads. Some very creative modeling here that gave me a lot of ideas to improve my own modeling efforts. He is an NMRA guy and gives this presentation mostly for their functions. IMHO, NASG should be more closely allied with NMRA (I realize this statement will be controversial for some).

Layout Tours - We had limited time, but managed to have a great time with the ones we saw. The premier layout that I saw was Bernie Levine's Sn3 work. Excellent modeling in a relatively small space. Attendees who passed it up missed a good one. Jeff Madden (editor of NASG Dispatch) was there as well, shooting some photos, so maybe we will see a feature on this fabulous layout in a future Dispatch. The Illinois Live Steamers setup was a real hoot. The rides were a blast and some of the models were very impressive (especially a Hudson). We finished up with Chuck West's layout in Des Plaines. He had an amazing array of brass engines on display and in immaculate working order, including the infamous Sunset Big Boy. And guess who else was there? Jim Kindraka (River Raisin) with that stunning Turbine. We got some more shots of it (hope they turn out). All to soon, it was time to blast back to the airport and head back home.

Was this year's S Fest a perfect S doux (event)? No. But you have to ask yourself the following questions. Did I have a good time? Would I come back? For me, the answer to both questions is a resounding YES. I am aware of how much planning and work it takes to pull something like this off. My hat is off to the C.A.S.G. and all who helped them with running the Fest. It was my first , but, hopefully, not the last. Thanks for a great time.

'S'incerely,
Jay Mellon
Crescent City S Gaugers
New Orleans, LA
Group: S-Trains Message: 21404 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, October 20, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page http://s-scale.org/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21405 From: keith kuzma Date: 10/18/2002
Subject: American Models steamer
Is it possible to run an American Models k-4 steamer
with scale wheelsets on flyer track?If not why?Will it
burn the same smoke fluid I have been using,or will i
need to get a different type?Right now I use
anormal1@... 's fluid.Keith

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Group: S-Trains Message: 21406 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/19/2002
Subject: Re: American Models steamer
I run an AM FP7 & 2 GP9s with scale wheels on carefully leveled AF
track. Diesels are more flexible. I don't think the K4 will make it
with scale wheels. I have had to carefully align and level the Gargraves
and Flyer switches in my passenger terminal throat area to allow the K4
to back in without derailing. However, the test is the proof. If you
have access to a few pieces of flyer track then try it out and let us
know.
Smoke fluid- I use Bart's super smoke and it's OK. Now that the engine
is a year or so old, I notice it takes a full lap on my 25' long layout
to generate good smoke production. Anyone have a similar experience?

keith kuzma wrote:
>
> Is it possible to run an American Models k-4 steamer
> with scale wheelsets on flyer track?If not why?Will it
> burn the same smoke fluid I have been using,or will i
> need to get a different type?Right now I use
> anormal1@... 's fluid.Keith
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
>
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--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21407 From: Doug Peck Date: 10/19/2002
Subject: Re: SAM bulbs
<<<< SAM lamp (A.F.# 452) is a GE #1402, This same lamp exists as a #1401
frosted. This is a 14v lamp. You might want to put a diode in line with
the lamp to reduce the voltage to increase it's life. Gilbert must have
used this lamp (14v) it is the only lamp 7/16" dia. x 21/32". there is a
G.E.# 335 28v (aircraft) that will fit, you might try, last hope try a
12v H.O. headlight lamp, don't know the number,>>>

Gerry is correct with the lamp numbers. The correct SAM bulbs are available,
and we always have them in stock if needed.

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours - Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays: 2-5 PM (EST), and 7-9 PM.
Saturdays: 2-5 PM.
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please.)
Website: www.portlines.com
E-mail: doug@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 21408 From: eric.reis Date: 10/19/2002
Subject: Trains for Sale
I have a 5 car spline set with trailers from American models

See their web site: http://www.americanmodels.com/rolling.stock/spine.html


First $100 plus $10 shipping can have it. New in the box high rail.



I have 11 Winross trucks new in their boxes for sale for $30 – $45
dollars each shipping would be about $5 for up to 2 then $1 for each
additional.

If you are interested I will list them and send it along off list



Thanks

Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa.

First rain today (sprinkle actually) since I think August.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21409 From: rcon7@bellsouth.net Date: 10/19/2002
Subject: Re: "s" trains ??????
Fellows...I don't know if this will come through...I am on A friends computer....I spoke with Maury Klein this morning at York.....I asked him personally...."When are we going to get some S gauge? ..... His reply " Can't talk about it...BUT WATCH THE NEXT TRAIN FAIR !!!" Maybe there is something good coming.....I also looked at the BIG BOY....It is just slighly oversize for S....but does look close...Another of his helpers said he has had a lot of comments from people who are going to try to convert it,,,,sorry its sold out..the only one I saw for sale was over 400....I also saw Mike crossing the lot...but I couldn't catch to him in the crowd....Bob Conner
Group: S-Trains Message: 21410 From: trzp1800 Date: 10/20/2002
Subject: Re: Hudson Pilot Coupler Conversion
--- In S-Trains@y..., Carl Tuveson <carl@w...> wrote:
> Double heading engines is now possible with this conversion to the
Pilot

Nice job Carl. I'm saving this one for future use.
Regards,
Ted
Group: S-Trains Message: 21411 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 10/20/2002
Subject: couple of things
Hi gang,

I can't get into the chat on Sundays. I keep getting returned to the sign on
page.

Who's going to S-West this week? I'd sure like to meet some of you
Californian flyer guys. One person I'd really like to meet is Choo Choo
Hutchinson. I've enjoyed his articles in S-Gaugian. Does anyone know how
he's doing?

I've just about got my layout torn up. I was at the point where I either had
to invest the time adding scenery to a first layout with major porblems or
start all over and do it right from the start. I'm looking foward to getting
some good ideas at S-West. I have an area 8 feet wide and about 16 feet
long. I'll use AF and K-line curve track again. I want 4 to 6 individual
lines on at least 2 levels. I've been rereading several years of S-Gaugians
for ideas. Anyone got any cool ideas?

Jacques "The VW Nut"
Group: S-Trains Message: 21412 From: Steve Blancard Date: 10/20/2002
Subject: Halloween - American Flyer style
Hi Guys,

I just finished up my "Spookytown" at one end of my layout. Halloween
is one of my favorite holidays, so I couldn't resist. It is based on 2
Lemax brand Spookytown buildings. Dr. Tingle's laboratory that has
lightening, thunder and eerie music, and a haunted mansion that has
ghosts flying by the windows. Quite a few other goulish details as
well. It is located at the end of my "L" shaped 12' x 16', two loop
layout.

I have posted some photos in the files section in the "American Flyer
Halloween" folder. Here is a direct link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/American%20Flyer%20Halloween/

Hope you like it, comments welceme!

Steve Blancard
Crustyfour
Group: S-Trains Message: 21413 From: joecraig60514 Date: 10/20/2002
Subject: Fall S-Fest
I was the chairman of the layout room for the Chicago S-Fest,
although I need to admit that Will Holt did much more work on this
than I did.

I want to give a great pat on the back to all those who participated.
The outcome was the impressive group of displays I have ever seen at
a show for one gauge only. We had several people drive long distances
to help us make this the best fest ever.

It was also gratifying to see, for the first time, Badgerland,
Stateline and Chicago join modules up and come out with such a
sucessfull outcome. All the clubs worked for hours to help make this
such a great success. When we had the few problems that came up, we
had people that stepped up the plate and hit some homeruns for us.
Thanks to all who provided extra-ordinary service. A big thankyou to
our brother clubs for helping us to be such a great promotion for S.
I met some great guys because of the event.

One last comment. If anyone has any gripes, criticisms, suggestions
regarding the fall s-fest, our web master Roy Plotnick in Digest
#1613 offered to collect all such comments. His e-mail is
plotnick@....

The only thing that constantly disturbs me about this site is the
occassional arguing back and forth on some issues. I ask that all
PLEASE,PLEASE,PLEASE, put personal issues and attitudes aside and do
what is best for our hobby. PLEASE send all comments, especially
negative ones, to Roy. Let us collect, organize, filter (a little)and
then let us provide feedback to vendors and groups. Lets always do
what is best for all of us and the hobby and help us to make each
function a little better than the previous.

Joe Craig-CASG Member
Group: S-Trains Message: 21414 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/20/2002
Subject: Re: Halloween - American Flyer style
Nice job, Steve. Great little "Frankie" you have running around there, too. I can just hear a faint voice crying out from that mansion on the hill, "Noooorman!".
-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Blancard
To: S- Trains list
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 3:15 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Halloween - American Flyer style


Hi Guys,

I just finished up my "Spookytown" at one end of my layout. Halloween
is one of my favorite holidays, so I couldn't resist. It is based on 2
Lemax brand Spookytown buildings. Dr. Tingle's laboratory that has
lightening, thunder and eerie music, and a haunted mansion that has
ghosts flying by the windows. Quite a few other goulish details as
well. It is located at the end of my "L" shaped 12' x 16', two loop
layout.

I have posted some photos in the files section in the "American Flyer
Halloween" folder. Here is a direct link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/American%20Flyer%20Halloween/

Hope you like it, comments welceme!

Steve Blancard
Crustyfour



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21415 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 10/20/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, October 20, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page http://s-scale.org/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21416 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/20/2002
Subject: Chat Room Address
Group: S-Trains Message: 21417 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/20/2002
Subject: oops Chat room address
Group: S-Trains Message: 21418 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/20/2002
Subject: Re: "s" trains
I, too, spoke with Maury Klein of K-Line at length. He told me the same
thing, however, it was the "Toy Fair" Catalog to which he referred. NY Toy
Fair occurs in the Spring. Apparently K-Line will be entering the S-Gauge
field at that time.

BTW, no matter what anyone has said in the past on this touchy subject, I
must tell you all that the American Flyer portion of the Lionel display at
York was far larger than anything done before and was impressive looking.
If we didn't have AM and SHS, it would have been all anyone on the list was
talking about today.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21419 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 10/21/2002
Subject: NASG Membership
Hi All:
Possibly I am missing something. Why should there be several different
memberships (minimum of two from discussions) in NASG. How many ways
can one split $20 (yes, theoretically one can split it an infinite
number of times, but practically only 2000 as the penny is the smallest
unit for our money). Are the people who are looking for this trying to
save money by not getting the "Dispatch"? I for one look forward to
getting the Dispatch - in fact, too bad it doesn't come 12 times a year.
I also understand how much effort it takes to put it out, so 6 times a
year is fine (although the membership issue is a little disappointing as
I would like to have 6 information issues plus the membership issue).
Do not misunderstand me, I am satisfied with the issues I get, but
enjoy it enough to wish there were more!

Anyhow, thanks to all the officers, volunteers and others who work hard
to bring many of us non-workers but enjoyers the NASG, the Dispatch, the
S fests, etc.

And finally, I think that $20 is not too expensive for membership in the
NASG.
Regards to all (those who agree and who disagree),
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21420 From: knockbill Date: 10/21/2002
Subject: 12B
Hi,
Hope everyone enjoyed York........I picked up a 12B transformer, &
would like to calibrate the Circuit breaker in it,,I've checked it by
shorting it & resetting it, but it seems to take a little longer to
trip then others I have....
Is the breaker adjustable? Are replacements available? What is the
amp rating ? ( I could just use a seperate Klixon breaker, if all
else fails)& how long should it allow a short before it trips?
Thanks for any info....
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 21421 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 10/21/2002
Subject: Sunday Chat
In a message dated 10/21/2002 5:44:08 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:

>
> From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...>
> Subject: Chat Room Address
>
> http://www.S-Sacle.org/forum/
>

The above address doesn't work for me..I get a "page cannot be displayed"
message. Like others, the address I had bookmarked now keeps taking me back
to the sign on screen in a continuous loop.

Steve


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Group: S-Trains Message: 21422 From: ljaneski@bellsouth.net Date: 10/21/2002
Subject: Re: Fall S Fest - View From The Hinterlands
All,

The S-fest was I thought, very well done. There was the usual
Real McCoy's Walter Brennan cranky old man complaining about
entirely secondary issues(Food- Who goes to Chicago for the food?)
from some of the attendees. But I saw the same people in the halls
all two days, so they were interested in something.

Having attended the 0-gauge convention here in New Orleans and many
NMRA events, in comparison there were only minors problems.

The vast majority of the dealer tables were flyer and looking at the
completed auctions on Ebay the prices were about 30% too high. However on Friday night there were a few Flyer bargains that were of course gone by late Saturday morning.

There were about 10 dealers with scale items, including one with 3 of Frank Titman's rather elaborate flyer modifications.

But the layout tours that Jay and I went to were great. The
SN3 one was really a museum quality display.

The manufacturers had excellent booths but with few "show only specials"
that I have seen in the Dallas NMRA show of the past.Terry Putt
of Putt Trains was very helpful and had a good assortment of
parts available

The show layout were interesting, but I think they needed
some kind of signage explaining the products or the theme.
They did not have much context.



Larry Janeski


>
> From: "Jay E. Mellon" <jmellon@...>
> Date: 2002/10/18 Fri PM 07:33:27 EDT
> To: <s-scale@yahoogroups.com>, <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
> CC: <ARANDALLW@...>, <mmbushnell@...>, <dmunsey@...>,
> <callall@...>, <ljaneski@...>,
> <W_A_E@...>, <jrmangus@...>,
> <choomeyer@...>, <tstoltz@...>, <noramz@...>
> Subject: Fall S Fest - View From The Hinterlands
>
> Dear S Folk,
>
> Since I enjoy learning of news from S events that I cannot attend, I thought I would return the service. This recap is merely my observations and thoughts on the recent S Fest in Chicago and is not meant to be all inclusive. There just wasn't time to see and visit with everyone to the extent I would have liked.
>
> Another club member (Larry) and I headed off early on Friday morning via Southwest Air and arrived in Chicago about 10 a.m. without any delay. We picked up our luggage and a rental car and proceeded to the event hotel, again without much trouble. We briefly poked around in the convention area and quickly decided we were merely in the way of vendors getting set up in time for the 2:00 start. So, we headed off to the hotel restaurant to grab some lunch. We didn't encounter the problems that others have described on Friday evening. We managed to get a decent dinner in a timely fashion at the local Cracker Barrel, though it was difficult to find, despite being directly across the road from the hotel (Tinley Park has ridiculous sign restrictions). We wandered back to the show room. Brief news descriptions for some selected vendors follow.
>
> American HiRail - Tom Hodgson is alive and well. I have read and heard about this vendor, but never seen his product. Some very nice stuff. He had the AeroTrain, PAs, Hiawatha (Atlantic) conversion kits with passenger cars, and a neat little "doodlebug" painted up for several different road names (RTR). I picked up a Dash-8 shell and Larry acquired a very nice Dreyfus Hudson shell with tender.
> American Models - Supposed to be there, but I never could find them. Not to worry. There was plenty of AM product available at other vendors.
> Cryer Gray Foundry - They had O scale models of the hoppers they plan to offer in S. Simply gorgeous. Incredible detail.
> Des Plaines Hobbies/S Scale America - Ron Sebastian had his tank cars and hoppers, as well as an excellent selection of s decals available. I picked a UP set for my Dash-8.
> John Huster - He had the new selection of SHS-produced cars on display. They were very tempting.
> Model Tech - A new manufacturer for me. They propose to produce some very nice-looking wooden structure kits.
> NASG - John Foley had the new NASG building (modern shed), as well as a mock up of the next modular offering. Looks like a product S modelers will be interested in.
> Old Motor Trucks - I had read about this guy in the Dispatch from the NASG convention this summer (I think). He had some gorgeous models and very unique. These are custom-built and pricey. But you won't find them in the local WalMart. I sprang for a tank truck.
> Port Lines Hobbies - Doug Peck had his usual complete line of parts and other goodies on display. I picked up the retrofit gear for the MTH coal loader.
> Putt Trains - It was great to finally meet Terry Putt. The new Docksider (0-4-0) looked and ran great. I picked up a Rex tender that I have been wanting for some time.
> R.S.S.V.P. Models - Jerry Rivit was one of the high points of the '98 NASG convention in Worcester, MA for me, so it was great to see him again. He had a whole bunch of gorgeous Downs (MMT) tank cars with him. Since I am partial to tank cars, I had to pick some more up. I am convinced that if S modelers could see these cars one-on-one, they would fly off the shelves.
> River Raisin Models - Dan and Jim had the new steam engines. Very nice. Also, they were running the Turbine on SHS S trax (29" radius). Simply stunning. I am mainly partial to MoPac, but it got me to thinking.
> S Helper Service - Always great to visit with Robin and Don Thompson. I scored some catalogs and newsletters for show distribution. Now that Don is "retired", he will get back to work on the steam engine (2-8-0). I also saw the new composite hopper and steel-roofed reefers. They are as beautiful in person as they appear in the photos. Due to the recent dock unloading problems on the West Coast, the F-7s will be delayed (hopefully not too long). The 2003 catalog should be out soon.
> Scenery Unlimited (HH Pub.) - I picked up a copy of the new book, American Flyer: Classic Toy Trains and had it signed by a co-author. Very nice book if you are interested in the history of AF. It is not a guide book.
>
> Some general observations on the vendor/trading room activities. My interest in AF began to wane several years ago, but if AF is your thing, this was Valhalla. I have never seen so much AF product sitting on tables. In Louisiana, we are lucky to see maybe one table of this kind of stuff at a local show. The prices for most seemed somewhat high to me, but, admittedly, I am not an active collector and have never been to York. There were some deals to be had, but you had to search them out. Larry scored a good deal on some structure kits. John Heck seemed to be doing decent business. As usual, the LTI AF product did not seem to move.
>
> Show Layouts - The lobby displays were very interesting, especially the All ABoard panel layout. I have seen a few examples of these, but this was a spectacular display of the last gasp of Gilbert's creative forces. I also greatly enjoyed the Sn3 and SMSG layouts.
>
> Train Races - I have read about this activity, but never witnessed it. The modular layout was turned into a drag strip. All that was missing was the countdown light sequence. Seemed to me that folks were having fun with their toy trains, which is what they were built for.
>
> Clinics - The high point here for me was the presentation by Charlie Wickhorst. After his regular act, he proceeded to give a hands-on tutorial on modeling car loads. Some very creative modeling here that gave me a lot of ideas to improve my own modeling efforts. He is an NMRA guy and gives this presentation mostly for their functions. IMHO, NASG should be more closely allied with NMRA (I realize this statement will be controversial for some).
>
> Layout Tours - We had limited time, but managed to have a great time with the ones we saw. The premier layout that I saw was Bernie Levine's Sn3 work. Excellent modeling in a relatively small space. Attendees who passed it up missed a good one. Jeff Madden (editor of NASG Dispatch) was there as well, shooting some photos, so maybe we will see a feature on this fabulous layout in a future Dispatch. The Illinois Live Steamers setup was a real hoot. The rides were a blast and some of the models were very impressive (especially a Hudson). We finished up with Chuck West's layout in Des Plaines. He had an amazing array of brass engines on display and in immaculate working order, including the infamous Sunset Big Boy. And guess who else was there? Jim Kindraka (River Raisin) with that stunning Turbine. We got some more shots of it (hope they turn out). All to soon, it was time to blast back to the airport and head back home.
>
> Was this year's S Fest a perfect S doux (event)? No. But you have to ask yourself the following questions. Did I have a good time? Would I come back? For me, the answer to both questions is a resounding YES. I am aware of how much planning and work it takes to pull something like this off. My hat is off to the C.A.S.G. and all who helped them with running the Fest. It was my first , but, hopefully, not the last. Thanks for a great time.
>
> 'S'incerely,
> Jay Mellon
> Crescent City S Gaugers
> New Orleans, LA
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21423 From: jfrr54 Date: 10/21/2002
Subject: Re: "s" trains
I saw the display and yes it was interesting that Lionel did exhibit
their S gauge items. I was a little disappointed in the look of the
Alaska Tank Car that is coming out this month. But I was happy to
see them giving some space to S. I saw more S stuff on the tables
than at the April meet. With K-line, MTH, Lionel, Williams all
bashing each other head to head in the O market, if any one of them
made a real effort in S, they'd find a wide open field ready to buy.
John Rodgers
Alexandria, VA
Group: S-Trains Message: 21424 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 10/21/2002
Subject: E-Bay STRIKES AGAIN
<A HREF="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1777849351">eBay item 1777849351 (Ends Oct-21-02 12:00:44 PDT ) - K-Line American Flyer
Service Manual</A> This can be had from Hobby Surplus for under $20.00 Mike S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21425 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/21/2002
Subject: York shows
Hi,

Did anyone find any real bargains or good deals at the various York shows this fall? Or did anyone find a scarce item to round out a collection?

-Tim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21426 From: Bill Lane Date: 10/21/2002
Subject: Southwind Models S Scale B & O I-5 caboose
Hi All,

For your visual ogling; I give you the just painted pilot models of the B &
O I-5 from Southwind Models.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/B_&_O_I-5.jpg For those of you who
missed the I-12s of years ago, here is your chance to own a beautiful B & O
Wagontop caboose, or Cabin Car as the PRR used to say. Note the Porthole end
windows, also like the PRR. You can now start off your coal drag with the
EM-1, and finish it with the I-5.

These models are in route as I write this to the left coast where they can
be viewed and ordered at the now infamous S-West IV mini convention.
http://home.pacbell.net/meldridg/bass/index.html This will also guarantee a
little east coast flavor in the big west. I will bet you can even put the
new S-West Western Pacific boxcar in front of these fine examples of B & O
cabooses.

See Jettie to place your order!

Thanks
Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 21427 From: Michael Greene Date: 10/21/2002
Subject: [Annoucement] New Yahoo Group & Discussion List for NASG Members
I have been away for a few days of rest & relaxation in Maui. I've clearly
missed a few really hot topics! :-) As I'm catching up on a large number of
messages that came in while I'm away, I noticed the reappearance of the
idea of having a discussion list for NASG related topics.

Towards that end, I have just established a new Yahoo Group called
"nasgmembers". This a restricted membership group exclusively for the use
of NASG members -- for the discussion of topics of interest to NASG
members, sharing of files/photos/etc, NASG member polls, etc. As a
restricted membership group, the moderator will verify NASG membership upon
receipt of your subscription request. If I don't recognize your email
address, you'll receive a reply requesting your name & NASG membership
number in response to your subscription request.

The group description has not yet made it to the Yahoo Groups On-line
Directory listing but I expect it will in the next few days.

In the meantime, if you want to join and you already have a Yahoo Groups
ID, you can go to http://groups.yahoo.com/nasgmembers, sign in under your
personal Yahoo Groups ID, and join the group.

If you don't have a Yahoo Groups ID (or can't get it to function correctly,
or don't want one), please note that you can join the MAILING LIST ONLY
portion of the group by sending an email request to the address:
nasgmembers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
If you use this approach to join the mailing list, you will NOT be able to
use any other features of the group like sharing files and/or photos,
polls, message archives, etc. And if you use this approach, you will need
to send an email to:
nasgmembers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
from the same email account, if/when you desire to leave the list.

Hopefully this will provide an avenue for discussion of NASG specific
topics without burdening other lists.

Questions/comments/etc on this group may be sent to me at this email
address or at
nasgmembers-owner@yahoogroups.com

Regards
Michael Greene
NASG Web Site Director
& nasgmembers Yahoo Group Moderator


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Greene Dunstable, MA, USA
Member: NMRA(Life), NASG, Bristol S Gaugers, NTRAK, TCA, The 470 Railroad
Club

Bristol S Gaugers http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com
National Assoc. of S Gaugers http://www.nasg.org
Maine Railroads (including DCC Corner) http://www.mainerailroads.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Group: S-Trains Message: 21428 From: jnr59@aol.com Date: 10/21/2002
Subject: American Models/SHS 80' Pullman Heavyweights
WANTED: A 10-2, 80' Heavyweight Pullman(any railroad) OR the 12-1 and 10-1
Heavyweight of the same railroad OR both Pullmans and the Lounge car of the
same railroad. Scale or HI Rail.

I have a 12-1 Erie Pullman and an unpainted Lounge car which I am willing to
trade for the above. Have pictures and willing to send if interested.

PLEASE CONTACT ME DIRECTLY VIA THE FOLLOWING EMAIL ADDRESS IF INTERESTED:
jnr59@...


Thanks,

Jack Riely


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21429 From: jnr59@aol.com Date: 10/21/2002
Subject: American Models/SHS 80' Pullman Heavyweights
WANTED: A 10-2, 80' Heavyweight Pullman(any railroad) OR the 12-1 and 10-1
Heavyweight of the same railroad OR both Pullmans and the Lounge car of the
same railroad. Scale or HI Rail.

I have a 12-1 Erie Pullman and an unpainted Lounge car which I am willing to
trade for the above. Have pictures and willing to send if interested.

PLEASE CONTACT ME DIRECTLY VIA THE FOLLOWING EMAIL ADDRESS IF INTERESTED:
jnr59@...


Thanks,

Jack Riely



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21430 From: jahoozdumm Date: 10/21/2002
Subject: Re: "s" trains
Chris Zizzo wrote:

>I must tell you all that the American Flyer portion of the Lionel
>display at York was far larger than anything done before and was
>impressive looking. If we didn't have AM and SHS, it would have been
>all anyone on the list was talking about today.


Actually, if not for AM and SHS, Lionel would likely not have put up
an AF display "far larger than anything done before."

BTW, was there anything there any NEWER than before? (Paint jobs
don't count!)

Normal breathing continues...


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21431 From: David Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: Re: York shows
I found a grey base 758A Sam in the white hall for $60 in EX. Also
finally found a nice EX 976 for my K771 that was not priced at or
over $100 which is rediculous. Thats about it, but I was not actively
looking for a lot of trains either as I am loosing interest, and I am
fairly advanced in my collection. Plasticville was abundant and many
prices were quite reasonable. Paid $300 for an Autumn Trees kit and
the wife tripped on the way to the car and fell on it. Now it looks
like a crushed box of corn flakes. Say LaVie.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 21432 From: Michael Greene Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: [Announcement] CORRECTED URL: nasgmembers Yahoo Group
Note -- URL to new group has been corrected below. My apologies. Michael

------------------

I have been away for a few days of rest & relaxation in Maui. I've clearly
missed a few really hot topics! :-) As I'm catching up on a large number of
messages that came in while I'm away, I noticed the reappearance of the
idea of having a discussion list for NASG related topics.

Towards that end, I have just established a new Yahoo Group called
"nasgmembers". This a restricted membership group exclusively for the use
of NASG members -- for the discussion of topics of interest to NASG
members, sharing of files/photos/etc, NASG member polls, etc. As a
restricted membership group, the moderator will verify NASG membership upon
receipt of your subscription request. If I don't recognize your email
address, you'll receive a reply requesting your name & NASG membership
number in response to your subscription request.

The group description has not yet made it to the Yahoo Groups On-line
Directory listing but I expect it will in the next few days.

In the meantime, if you want to join and you already have a Yahoo Groups
ID, you can go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nasgmembers, sign in under
your personal Yahoo Groups ID, and join the group.

If you don't have a Yahoo Groups ID (or can't get it to function correctly,
or don't want one), please note that you can join the MAILING LIST ONLY
portion of the group by sending an email request to the address:
nasgmembers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
If you use this approach to join the mailing list, you will NOT be able to
use any other features of the group like sharing files and/or photos,
polls, message archives, etc. And if you use this approach, you will need
to send an email to:
nasgmembers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
from the same email account, if/when you desire to leave the list.

Hopefully this will provide an avenue for discussion of NASG specific
topics without burdening other lists.

Questions/comments/etc on this group may be sent to me at this email
address or at
nasgmembers-owner@yahoogroups.com

Regards
Michael Greene
NASG Web Site Director
& nasgmembers Yahoo Group Moderator

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Greene Dunstable, MA, USA
Member: NMRA(Life), NASG, Bristol S Gaugers, NTRAK, TCA, The 470 Railroad
Club

Bristol S Gaugers http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com
National Assoc. of S Gaugers http://www.nasg.org
Maine Railroads (including DCC Corner) http://www.mainerailroads.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Group: S-Trains Message: 21433 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay STRIKES AGAIN
>K-Line American Flyer Service Manual
>This can be had from Hobby Surplus for under $20.00


Mike:
Hobby Surplus charges $34 for it but includes parts coupons that, if
redeemed, will save you $17 off their prices.

E-Bay is not at fault. Uninformed buyers are to blame. BTW, World of
Trains in Queens, NY was the seller. They may very well reduce the price to
the MSRP. I sent a note to the buyer.

In any auction, the price is variable. That means it can vary well above
what it ought to be. People who are uninformed routinely pay well over list
on auction sites. Sharp buyers find discounts. And the world goes 'round.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21434 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: Re: eBay Strikes Again
>K-Line American Flyer Service Manual
>This can be had from Hobby Surplus for under $20.00


>>Mike:
>>Hobby Surplus charges $34 for it but includes parts coupons that, if
>>redeemed, will save you $17 off their prices.
>>
>>E-Bay is not at fault. Uninformed buyers are to blame. BTW, World of
>>Trains in Queens, NY was the seller. They may very well reduce the
>>price to
>>the MSRP. I sent a note to the buyer.
>>
>>In any auction, the price is variable. That means it can vary well
>>above
>>what it ought to be. People who are uninformed routinely pay well
>>over list
>>on auction sites. Sharp buyers find discounts. And the world
>>goes 'round.
>>
>>Chris Zizzo

Hey Chris - do you also contact the buyers who pay too little and
tell them to increase the payment to meet the MSRP?????????????
Group: S-Trains Message: 21435 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: Re: York shows
Tim asks:
>Did anyone find any real bargains or good deals at . . . York?

I bought a 342DC for $200 in VG condition. Does that count?
The seller came down from $275, then took a check after refusing it.
I guess Saturday was a quiet day in Silver Hall.

York was crowded. Friday was a zoo, totally packed, no parking available.
Saturday was lighter by far.

I brought my wife and my 5 year old nephew, Caleb. Caleb (K for short, and
he IS short) was not a real train enthusiast, though he loves all mechanical
stuff, goes to Monster Truck shows and can't get enough of heavy
construction equipment. Now, after a day and a half in the halls and a
visit to Strasburg, he can identify every car and knows a steamer from a
diesel from an electric (a "wire engine"). At the tables, he zeroed in on
all the most expensive stuff. One of his "I like THAT!" finger points was
an original Bassett-Lowke steamer in something much larger than Wide Gauge
with a price tag displaying $6500.00. I thought, "Now here's something even
his indulgent Aunt Denise (my wife) will have to say 'No' to!"

I introduced K to Don Thompson and to Bill Parr and we looked all through
White Hall (the greatest concentration of S-Gauge) for something to buy him
for Christmas. We eyeballed all the freight and passenger gear at Lionel's
big Flyer display. Now here's where I get in trouble with you guys. I have
not been a fan of starter sets. We had that very labored discussion about
them some time ago and I'm not looking to open that can of worms again.
But, I will say that there was nothing that filled the bill for me in
getting a modern day kid into toy trains within this gauge.

As nice as they are, Don's SHS starters are too tame for a kid. They don't
have sufficient play value for the five year old of 2002. They would have
been fine competition for Flyer back in 1952, because, back then, when I was
five, I was poring over Flyer catalogs and whetting my appetite for trains
to run. I already had owned a starter set for 3 years and loved trains for
themselves. Trains were a regular part of our lives in those days.

Caleb doesn't know too much about trains. His key phrase was "Are they
double-deckers?" Our Long Island railroad runs bi-level coaches now. It is
his only link to real railroading, He sees no freight trains where he
lives, so his interest was limited to passenger trains. It was just a
question of relevance. I had to find a set of trains that would connect to
his world. I did find it, too.

Maury Klein, who shook Calebs hand, and who liked his nickname, has been
building trains relevant to kids. More than any other manufacturer, K-Line
is still building 'em like they used to. Caleb's other big interest is Army
related toys. He had an Army theme birthday party last year. K-Line has an
Army train set. When he saw it, his eyes bugged out. Let me describe it.

You get an MP-15 diesel in Army green w/horn, an operating searchlight car,
an operating radar search car, a work caboose with an anti-aircraft gun (w/
sound-uses the bell side of the horn/bell control), 3 flat cars with die
cast loads: a troop truck, a helicopter, a jeep, 18 soldier figures, an oval
of the new blackened center-rail snap-track, a transformer, wire, terminals,
horn buttons, all that. List price, $260. Show Special, $200. Sold!

This month, four more cars will be added, the cannon car, the missle
transporter, a fuel tanker and a jeep transporter w/ 3 die cast Jeeps. An
extra Jeep and a bag of 25 additional soldiers rounds out the offering.
That will set me back another $150.

Look at the K-Line catalog. When trains are remakes of old stuff,
collectibles, early Lionel offerings, the text points it all out for us old
farts. But there are plenty of trains that reflect modern, relevant
railroading, while still providing color and variety. I was impressed by
the CSX business train. I know K-Line is cutting some corners. Their
Vista-Domes don't have the right windows and neither do the sleepers. But
then again, that's in the best tradition of toy train railroading, isn't it?

Down the road, if the train bug bites hard, Caleb can always switch scales.
(In fact, when I kick the bucket, he's going to have a lot more S-Gauge than
he planned on!) He can pass the Army set (and the Fire set and the Emergency
set) on to his brother, Gavin, as he moves on. This weekend, I did my job.
I started the process of passing the torch. I got K onto all the catalog
lists. He's already getting mail. He's got a train set of his own.
Whether the fire catches or not will be up to him. I'll keep fanning the
flames every chance I get.

If you want to pass on "The World's Greatest Hobby" you're going to have to
do it one kid at a time.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I want to get back to my K-Line catalog.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21436 From: John Foley Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Southwind Models S Scale B & O I-5 caboose
Hi Bill
Beautiful paint jobs as always.
John




At 07:56 PM 10/21/02 -0400, Bill Lane wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>For your visual ogling; I give you the just painted pilot models of the B &
>O I-5 from Southwind Models.
>http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/B_&_O_I-5.jpg For those of you who
>missed the I-12s of years ago, here is your chance to own a beautiful B & O
>Wagontop caboose, or Cabin Car as the PRR used to say. Note the Porthole end
>windows, also like the PRR. You can now start off your coal drag with the
>EM-1, and finish it with the I-5.
>
>These models are in route as I write this to the left coast where they can
>be viewed and ordered at the now infamous S-West IV mini convention.
>http://home.pacbell.net/meldridg/bass/index.html This will also guarantee a
>little east coast flavor in the big west. I will bet you can even put the
>new S-West Western Pacific boxcar in front of these fine examples of B & O
>cabooses.
>
>See Jettie to place your order!
>
>Thanks
>Bill
>
>
>To see or post Photos visit
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
>or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
>To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21437 From: Stoudt,Kenneth R. Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Southwind Models S Scale B & O I-5 c aboose
Hi Guys, great pics. how much does this item cost?


Ken Stoudt



-----Original Message-----
From: John Foley [mailto:foley164@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 10:03 AM
To: Bill Lane; S Trains; S Scale List; B & O List
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: [S-Scale] Southwind Models S Scale B & O I-5
caboose


Hi Bill
Beautiful paint jobs as always.
John




At 07:56 PM 10/21/02 -0400, Bill Lane wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>For your visual ogling; I give you the just painted pilot models of the B &
>O I-5 from Southwind Models.
>http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/B_&_O_I-5.jpg For those of you who
>missed the I-12s of years ago, here is your chance to own a beautiful B & O
>Wagontop caboose, or Cabin Car as the PRR used to say. Note the Porthole
end
>windows, also like the PRR. You can now start off your coal drag with the
>EM-1, and finish it with the I-5.
>
>These models are in route as I write this to the left coast where they can
>be viewed and ordered at the now infamous S-West IV mini convention.
>http://home.pacbell.net/meldridg/bass/index.html This will also guarantee a
>little east coast flavor in the big west. I will bet you can even put the
>new S-West Western Pacific boxcar in front of these fine examples of B & O
>cabooses.
>
>See Jettie to place your order!
>
>Thanks
>Bill
>
>
>To see or post Photos visit
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
>or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
>To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


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Group: S-Trains Message: 21438 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: NASG chat
   From: Michael Greene <pinetreerr@...>
Subject: [Annoucement] New Yahoo Group & Discussion List for NASG Members

if you want to join and you already have a Yahoo Groups
ID, you can go to http://groups.yahoo.com/nasgmembers, sign in under your
personal Yahoo Groups ID, and join the group.

I got a big fat "DOCUMENT NOT FOUND" when I tried to sign up. The new AOL 8.0
doesn't seem to like Yahoo. I can't get into Paul's chat site either anymore.

Steve



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21439 From: David Dewey Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: Re: eBay Strikes Again
I work for the Butte County Historical society. One of our members
consistantly finds that books we sell in our museum store are going for much
more on eBay. We are considering selling there! The buyers often don't know
what the true value is of stuff they bid on.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21440 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: York shows
Hi Guys,

Here are some of the "bargains" I found at York this year:

342AC 0-8-0 Nickel Plate Road (American Flyer) Switcher in excellent+ condition for $200. It was very dirty, but when I got it home and cleaned it up, wow! - a real cherry with hardly any play wear and strong lettering. It runs and smokes nice.

332AC (American Flyer) Challenger in excellent condition for $370. Runs and smokes terrific.

466 Silver-painted, decal Comet in excellent condition for $160. Runs very well.

660 Aluminum Combination Passenger car in excellent condition for $40.

662 Aluminum Vista Dome Passenger car in excellent condition for $40.

6 rerailer track sections for an average of $17 each.

4 #697 track trips for an average of $15 each.

I was very pleased with myself that I sniffed out some good buys, IMHO.

Can't wait for the April shows.

-Tim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21441 From: Michael Greene Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: Re: NASG chat
Steve

Hopefully by now you've seen my updated e'mail. In the original email I
typed the URL by hand instead of a cut and paste. The updated e'mail has
the correct URL. Here it is again in case you missed the updated email:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nasgmembers

Michael

At 10:32 AM 10/22/2002 -0400, boss31@... wrote:



> From: Michael Greene <pinetreerr@...>
>Subject: [Annoucement] New Yahoo Group & Discussion List for NASG Members
>
>if you want to join and you already have a Yahoo Groups
>ID, you can go to http://groups.yahoo.com/nasgmembers, sign in under your
>personal Yahoo Groups ID, and join the group.
>
>I got a big fat "DOCUMENT NOT FOUND" when I tried to sign up. The new AOL 8.0
>doesn't seem to like Yahoo. I can't get into Paul's chat site either anymore.
>
>Steve

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Greene Dunstable, MA, USA
Member: NMRA(Life), NASG, Bristol S Gaugers, NTRAK, TCA, The 470 Railroad
Club

Bristol S Gaugers http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com
National Assoc. of S Gaugers http://www.nasg.org
Maine Railroads (including DCC Corner) http://www.mainerailroads.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Group: S-Trains Message: 21442 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: Re: York
Hi Steve,

I was there all through the week and late on Saturday when the dealers were packing up to leave. I didn't find anyone wanting to steeply discount their stuff. I guess they paid a lot to acquire it and can't let it go for less, even if they have to lug it back home. After all, there is always the next show.

My best deals were from guys who either were going out of business and selling off at their cost, or were independent guys selling off their personal collections to fund a child in college. There is only so far anyone is willing to deal down to. If they were going to give it away, why go all the way to York? I know the dealers by sight now who I just breeze past, 'cuz even though they have nice things, I know I won't find any "steals" there. York isn't what it used to be. Nothing is.

I think you did about as well as anybody could.

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton
To: Timboy@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 7:17 PM
Subject: York


Hi, Tim,

Just saw your post on S trains list.

I found these deals: In the Red Hall at 11:15 Fri., I bought a like new 312 SIT without the wrapper for $100.00. There were other similar deals on engines I already have. This same guy had a mint 336 in the wrap, as part of a freight set incl. the Gulf 3-dome tank car and the State of Maine 982, et al, for $1800.00, incl. set box, individual boxes, and all papers. It was still there at 3:30 Fri. afternoon.

I bought my first 982 in the White Hall on Fri. for $65.00. Only thing wrong with it is a 3/16" chip out of one of the ladders. The lettering and colors are perfect. Both the above were from independent collectors. At the Blue Caboose (forget the guy's name) display at the Holidome on Wed., he had many common cars, llke new in the box, for bargain prices. All was sold by the time I got there around 1:00, but there was a MoPac stock car left in the box for $20.00, that he would have probably sold for $17.50 or even $15.00 if I had wanted it.

I think these are pretty good prices. In general, though, most Flyer was on sale for top price. Would have been interesting to be there around 3:00 on Sat. and to have seen how sharply prices were falling as everyone prepared to pack up for home.

Please write. What did you find? What was your experience?

Steve Pendleton

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21443 From: Bill Lane Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: Southwind Models S Scale B & O I-5 c aboose
Hi All,

I should have included ordering information for the Southwind Models S Scale
B & O I-5 caboose in my last post, but I don't' have the details at this
time. Please call Jettie Padgett in about 1 week if you are interested in
buying them. 813-752-1636

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/B_&_O_I-5.jpg

Thanks
Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 21444 From: jahoozdumm Date: 10/22/2002
Subject: Re: York shows
Chris Zizzo wrote:

>Now here's where I get in trouble with you guys. I have not been a
>fan of starter sets.

<snip for brevity> But, I will say that there was nothing that
>filled the bill for me in getting a modern day kid into toy trains
>within this gauge. As nice as they are, Don's SHS starters are too
>tame for a kid. They don't have sufficient play value for the five
>year old of 2002.

<snip again for more brevity>
>Caleb doesn't know too much about trains. <more brevity snippage> I
>had to find a set of trains that would connect to his world. I did
>find it, too.

<another snip> Maury Klein, who shook Calebs hand, and who liked his
>nickname, has been building trains relevant to kids.


Chris, during that starter set discussion we had here recently, you
asked a very pertinent question that went something like: "What do
you guys want?" I think you saw the general idea of what we want
(albeit in the wrong gauge/scale.) You bought it for Caleb. Wouldn't
it have been great if that K-Line play value was available in S?
That's what S needs, and what many of us want.


>This weekend, I did my job. I started the process of passing the
>torch. I got K onto all the catalog lists. <snip> If you want to
>pass on "The World's Greatest Hobby" you're going to have to
>do it one kid at a time.

Very true. If only we could pass on The World's Greatest Gauge at the
same time.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21445 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/23/2002
Subject: Hirail ( was York)
Chris Zizzo's post about the starter set he bought for his nephew was the
definitive word on the topic of starter sets. We have flogged this topic
to death half a dozen times in the last few years; hopefully the horse is
now buried, because it's started to smell.

I think that details in a toy train are supposed to be more than accurate
replicas of a prototype. They are supposed to invite the child's mind INTO
the train, and we all have a child's mind buried somewhere in our adult
consciousness. Steps and a door should invite us to take an imaginary ride
on the train, not just look correct. Accuracy is less important than
having some quality that fires the imagination into greater involvement
with the train. Also, the fabulous catalog art of the '50's made those
classic toy trains into larger than life legendary creations. The Santa
Fe! The Union Pacific! The Northern Pacific! Wow!

There are two commonly held ideas about toy trains that I have never bought
into. They both originated in the advertising of toy companies.

The first is that toy trains bring fathers and sons closer together.
During my childhood, my trains were practically the only area of my life
that my parents DIDN'T interfere with. They were a sanctuary from parental
attention. They have formed almost no part of my close relationship with
my son. I hesitated to push him into something so esoteric, and he didn't
show much interest after the age of 6 or so. So what? Many of my friends
in childhood were not enamored of toy trains either.

The second is that accurate scale models are somehow superior to, or more
adult than, toys. This was the basis on which the industry convinced many
of us to trade in our Lionels and Flyers for much less exciting HO trains,
which I like to refer to as "Ant Farm Railroading". HO trains were cheaper
and easier to manufacture, distribute, and sell. Unfortunately, there's
not much magic to them.

That is why the current hirail offerings in S leave me cold. There's not
much difference between them and HO except size. Bigness must be combined
with some other quality to create excitement, and I find it lacking. That
is why, as someone mentioned here, no currently available S product would
make a great starter set for a kid. Whenever I am asked to recommend a
starter train for a kid, I always suggest 0-27. That's where the toys are.
Chris discovered the same thing. 0-27 starter sets are cheap and won't
last long, but they WILL get played with until they expire.

Another part of the magic for me has always been that the old trains were
designed to be disassembled and repaired, even by a child. Remember, Flyer
trains were a science toy as well. I certainly repaired my own trains when
i was a youngster, and learned a tremendous amount from doing so. Can
motors and solid state reverse units come from a different school of
industrial thought -- it's called planned obsolescence. When something
wears out, replace it, don't repair it. Repairmen are too expensive. As a
repairman, I resent this!

An old toy train environment is hostile -- lots of dirt and dust and grease
and vibration and collisions and heat and corrosion and bimetallic
reactions, to say nothing of the higher voltages required by earlier
technology and less efficient motors, including surges that commonly exceed
80 volts. I question whether circuit boards, whose components are largely
microscopically thin films of various metals, are compatible with older toy
trains. The electronics guys always claim that they will last because they
have no moving parts, but I doubt it. And, I love moving parts. That's
what toy trains are all about!

Can motors cannot be repaired and must be replaced. Part of the magic in
toy trains is the motors; at some point any kid is going to want to get
inside one and see what is going on. A can motor is just a sealed,
impenetrable blob, compared to an open frame motor. No visible moving
parts, no sparks, not much noise, and not much excitement either.

Then there are those tiny hirail flanges and sprung/equalized trucks. I
prefer fat wheel flanges and couplers and heavy cast side trucks. They
lower the centers of gravity and keep trains on the track when old motors
balk and jump. The first time I saw a real knuckle coupler, I probably had
to look up at it because it was over my head. The massiveness was the
attraction. Still is.

Oh well. Grump, grump, grump. In case you didn't notice, I don't adapt
well to change. But my trains still are magical, at least to me.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21446 From: Roy Hoffman Date: 10/23/2002
Subject: Toronto 2002
Hi Folks,

I'd like to announce that the NASG BOT has just approved a plan that
will give us 3 tables, chairs and layout space for our scale layout
at the Toronto 2002 NMRA convention and NTS.

Roy
Group: S-Trains Message: 21447 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 10/23/2002
Subject: Starter Sets and K-Line
Chris Zizzo wrote:

<...Now here's where I get in trouble with you guys.
<I have not been a fan of starter sets. We had that
<very labored discussion aboutthem some time ago and
<I'm not looking to open that can of worms again.
<But, I will say that there was nothing that filled
<the bill for me in getting a modern day kid into toy
<trains within this gauge.
<
<As nice as they are, Don's SHS starters are too tame
<for a kid. They don't have sufficient play value for
<the five year old of 2002. They would have been fine
<competition for Flyer back in 1952, because, back
<ten, when I was five, I was poring over Flyer
<catalogs and whetting my appetite for trains to run.
<I already had owned a starter set for 3 years and
<loved trains for themselves. Trains were a regular
<part of our lives in those days.
<
<Caleb doesn't know too much about trains. His key
<phrase was "Are they double-deckers?" Our Long
<Island railroad runs bi-level coaches now. It is his
<only link to real railroading, He sees no freight
<trains where he lives, so his interest was limited to
<passenger trains. It was just a question of
<relevance. I had to find a set of trains that would
<connect to his world. I did find it, too.

Chris, welcome to the dark side. This is just the
argument that I made earlier when I suggested that we
press K-Line to enter the S gauge market. As I
remember, you completely dismissed that idea at the
time. But now you have found, as I as a dealer have
found, that we do not have what we need as an
inexpensive, play-value, starter set. Hopefully, if
the K-Line rumor is true, that may be changing soon
and we can get more kids into the perfect gauge.
However, I just got off the telephone with Nick Ladd,
their sales representative, and he knows nothings
about any K-Line entry into the S gauge market and
strongly doubts it will happen--at least not in the
near future.

Joe


=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21448 From: tomp4884 Date: 10/23/2002
Subject: 3 digit vs 5 digit Santa Fe Freight PA
Like many, I have always wanted the Santa Fe PA in the freight blue
and yellow paint scheme. My question is: from an operator
perspective, is there any significant difference between the 484 and
the 21910(?) in terms of reliability, durability and pulling power.
Have an chance to get either for a reasonable(?) price, not sure which
one to go for. I don't really care about the collector value, only
how well they operate and last. Thanks, Tom
Group: S-Trains Message: 21449 From: Neil Trump Date: 10/23/2002
Subject: K-Line Big Boy
I received my December issue of CTT today and happened to read the 'News & Notes' pages which gave a small section devoted to the new K-Line Big Boy.

The article describes the loco as being for 1:48 scale but in fact is actually built to a scale of 1:64 in order to negotiate layouts with tight curves.

The suggested retail price is $400, which looks extremely good value, especially for those people that have the ability to re-gauge it for 'S'.

I wonder how long it will take for the first one to be converted?

Regards,

Neil T.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21450 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 10/23/2002
Subject: NASG Newsgroup
I have joined it in digest form. (Pending moderator approval of my
membership.) Personally, I feel this is unneeded. We already have the
S-Trains and S-Scale lists.

Thorin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21451 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 10/23/2002
Subject: Re: 3 digit vs 5 digit Santa Fe Freight PA
In a message dated 10/23/02 1:05:11 PM, tjpennington@... writes:

<< My question is: from an operator perspective, is there any significant
difference between the 484 and the 21910(?) in terms of reliability,
durability and pulling power. Have an chance to get either for a
reasonable(?) price, not sure which
one to go for. I don't really care about the collector value, only how well
they operate and last. >>

Tom, from an operations standpoint, the three digit engines are just fine and
are every bit as good as the five digit version at less cost.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 21452 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/23/2002
Subject: Re: 3 digit vs 5 digit Santa Fe Freight PA
There is one exception. The older diesels had the rigid truck frame
that lacked the pivot point in the truck sideframe area. I'm ot sure
whether this was confined to link couplers or not (anyone?). These
older rigid truck frames tend to jump the rails on a jackrabbit start,
at least mine does. I have 2 PAs, one was always knuckle with a
flexible truck and the other is a knuckle converted from link and has
the older rigid truck.

rbubeck327@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 10/23/02 1:05:11 PM, tjpennington@... writes:
>
> << My question is: from an operator perspective, is there any significant
> difference between the 484 and the 21910(?) in terms of reliability,
> durability and pulling power. Have an chance to get either for a
> reasonable(?) price, not sure which
> one to go for. I don't really care about the collector value, only how well
> they operate and last. >>
>
> Tom, from an operations standpoint, the three digit engines are just fine and
> are every bit as good as the five digit version at less cost.
>
> RB
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21453 From: Euell Johnson Date: 10/23/2002
Subject: Re: Southwind Models S Scale B & O I-5 c aboose
Do they have a website? What is the price?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Lane" <billlane@...>
To: "S Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "S Scale List"
<S-Scale@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:45 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Southwind Models S Scale B & O I-5 c aboose


> Hi All,
>
> I should have included ordering information for the Southwind Models S
Scale
> B & O I-5 caboose in my last post, but I don't' have the details at this
> time. Please call Jettie Padgett in about 1 week if you are interested in
> buying them. 813-752-1636
>
> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/B_&_O_I-5.jpg
>
> Thanks
> Bill
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21454 From: Bill Lane Date: 10/23/2002
Subject: Southwind Models S Scale B & O I-5 caboose
Hi Euell,

Sorry, there is no website yet. It has been talked about often, but nothing
has been started. I have JUST found my flyer on the pricing. I have uploaded
it here: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/B_&_O_I-5_Pricing.jpg It is
chunky, so let it download. Once you get it, you should probably print it to
read it.

Thanks
Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: Euell Johnson [mailto:bigfoot@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 6:32 PM
To: S Trains; S Scale List; Bill Lane
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Southwind Models S Scale B & O I-5 c aboose

Do they have a website? What is the price?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Lane" <billlane@...>
To: "S Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "S Scale List"
<S-Scale@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:45 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Southwind Models S Scale B & O I-5 c aboose


> Hi All,
>
> I should have included ordering information for the Southwind Models S
Scale
> B & O I-5 caboose in my last post, but I don't' have the details at this
> time. Please call Jettie Padgett in about 1 week if you are interested in
> buying them. 813-752-1636
>
> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/B_&_O_I-5.jpg
>
> Thanks
> Bill
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.404 / Virus Database: 228 - Release Date: 10/15/02
Group: S-Trains Message: 21455 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/23/2002
Subject: 3 digit vs 5 digit Freight PA
What Chuck is referring to is that shortly after introducing Pul-Mor,
Gilbert changed the diesel motor. previously, one rigid brass yoke held
the field to the motor chassis and also served as a motor yoke, attaching
the motor to the loco chassis. In the new design there were two yokes.
One held the field to the motor chassis, and another , which pivoted
vertically , held the motor to the loco chassis. If the correct bottom is
in the 3 digit loco, it should have double yoke motors in it. All 5 digit
models had the double yoke motor.

Chuck, if your link PA jumps the track, it needs to be rebushed, or the
straps are not tight enough, or both.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21456 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 10/23/2002
Subject: Re: 3 digit vs 5 digit Freight PA
<< In the new design there were two yokes. One held the field to the motor
chassis, and another , which pivoted vertically , held the motor to the loco
chassis. If the correct bottom is in the 3 digit loco, it should have double
yoke motors in it. All 5 digit models had the double yoke motor. >>

Chuck,

I own a 3 digit sample with the pivoting yoke, as Tom says, and most do. But
I also have a very early version ("mint") which is fitted with the rigid
brass yoke (It's so early, it wasn't fitted with Diesel Roar). Be sure to
check this aspect of the power trucks out if it matters to you.

Hope this helps.

Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 21457 From: Dan Brindell Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Questions about DC vs. AC
Awhile ago there was a thread about running Flyer on DC instead of AC. I
don't want to re-start the whole darn thread again, but I do have a couple
of questions. For awhile now I have been thinking about buying a high-end
DC powerpack (such as an MRC 6200 which is really intended for G scale). I
would use it to run not only universal-motor Flyer on DC, but also modern
hi-rail trains that are DC only.

I thought of this purchase again when I noticed that the S-helper F-7's are
$199 if you buy DC-only, but $299 if you buy AC/DC. So the questions are:

1. Has anybody tried running both u-m Flyer and modern DC-only trains on a
DC powerpack of appropriate size? If so, what kind of results did you get?
Any problems/pitfalls?

2. What kind of Flyer operating cars and accessories, if any, won't run on
DC? Items equipped with vibrators, such as the cattle yard? Or do
solenoids have problems too?

Thanks in advance.

Dan Brindell
Group: S-Trains Message: 21458 From: Don Thompson Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Re: Questions about DC vs. AC
Dear Dan,
The DC only F-7 price of $199.99 vs. the AC/DC Locomatic sound price of $299.95
is the cost of the plug in sound unit that retails for $159.95. The only problem is
if the AC unit has Sound that will not accommodate DC (e.g.. Lionel and AM). They
use the DC polarity difference to activate the horn/whistle or bell. If you operate
these on DC, either the horn/whistle or the bell will be activated all the time
power is to the track. The LocoMatic sound unit can be set for either mode, so when
used with the LocoMatic 10 button controller, you can use either AC or DC and can
control up to 19 functions on you engines (ours use speed, direction, horn, bell,
headlight, Mars light, numberboards, sound off, and new for our F-7s classification
lights - red, white or green).
Watch out about DC power units. Check the "volt-amp" ratings as many are not
very powerful. Classic AC Gilbert engines draw more current than today's DC motors
and may need a bit more power. The MRC 6200 only delivers 60 VA of power. I think
our electronic knowledgeable e-group members will tell you that is not much power
for your needs.
Don
PS Go to: http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/500-6200 to learn more.

Dan Brindell wrote:

> Awhile ago there was a thread about running Flyer on DC instead of AC. I
> don't want to re-start the whole darn thread again, but I do have a couple
> of questions. For awhile now I have been thinking about buying a high-end
> DC powerpack (such as an MRC 6200 which is really intended for G scale). I
> would use it to run not only universal-motor Flyer on DC, but also modern
> hi-rail trains that are DC only.
>
> I thought of this purchase again when I noticed that the S-helper F-7's are
> $199 if you buy DC-only, but $299 if you buy AC/DC. So the questions are:
>
> 1. Has anybody tried running both u-m Flyer and modern DC-only trains on a
> DC powerpack of appropriate size? If so, what kind of results did you get?
> Any problems/pitfalls?
>
> 2. What kind of Flyer operating cars and accessories, if any, won't run on
> DC? Items equipped with vibrators, such as the cattle yard? Or do
> solenoids have problems too?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Dan Brindell

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 21459 From: David A. Highfield Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Re: Questions about DC vs. AC
I have the same questions about AC-DC as Dan. Right now I run my trains with
a flyer AC transformer that runs through a flyer DC rectifier. But I would
like a recommendation of a DC power pack that can run several trains at a
time.
Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Brindell" <dbrindell@...>
To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 8:31 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Questions about DC vs. AC


> Awhile ago there was a thread about running Flyer on DC instead of AC. I
> don't want to re-start the whole darn thread again, but I do have a couple
> of questions. For awhile now I have been thinking about buying a high-end
> DC powerpack (such as an MRC 6200 which is really intended for G scale).
I
> would use it to run not only universal-motor Flyer on DC, but also modern
> hi-rail trains that are DC only.
>
> I thought of this purchase again when I noticed that the S-helper F-7's
are
> $199 if you buy DC-only, but $299 if you buy AC/DC. So the questions are:
>
> 1. Has anybody tried running both u-m Flyer and modern DC-only trains on
a
> DC powerpack of appropriate size? If so, what kind of results did you
get?
> Any problems/pitfalls?
>
> 2. What kind of Flyer operating cars and accessories, if any, won't run
on
> DC? Items equipped with vibrators, such as the cattle yard? Or do
> solenoids have problems too?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Dan Brindell
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21460 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: (no subject)
Thanks for posting this, Bill. If someone had posted all of Jettie's
notices, I would not have missed out on the AC-12.

Thorin

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 18:49:49 -0400
From: Bill Lane <billlane@...>
Subject: SouthWind Models S Scale B & O I-5 caboose

Hi Euell,

Sorry, there is no website yet. It has been talked about often, but nothing
has been started. I have JUST found my flyer on the pricing. I have uploaded
it here: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/B_&_O_I-5_Pricing.jpg It is
chunky, so let it download. Once you get it, you should probably print it to
read it.

Thanks
Bill



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21461 From: David Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Help electronics experts....
How do you make a filtered DC power supply??? What is used to make
the filter? Thanks!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21462 From: Steve Blancard Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Re: Questions about DC vs. AC
The Walthers unit shown in the link says "0-18.5 volts DC track
voltage"...and it "delivers 2.2 amps to the trains".

This equates to 40.7 watts (amps x volts = watts). About equal to an
entry level American Flyer transformer.

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 21463 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: DC common rail system
While we're asking questions about DC, I have one to add: how do you
create a DC common rail system? I use an AC common rail system and the
common rail makes a huge improvement in power distribution throughout my
layouts. The only DC common rail circuit i have is from Electric Handbook
for Model Railroaders by Mallory and Mallory, 1955. It uses two power
sources, one for + and one for -, with a common ground to the common rail.
Is there any other way to do it?

Thanks.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21464 From: Steve Blancard Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Re: Questions about DC vs. AC
After looking at this and and thinking about my 30B transformer, I
think I was in error. This should be a more correct comparison:

30B - 120 volt input, 300 watts max output at 2.5 amp draw

Walthers - 120 volt input, 264 watt max output at 2.2 amp draw

Steve Blancard

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Steve Blancard" <splitdorf@1...> wrote:
> The Walthers unit shown in the link says "0-18.5 volts DC track
> voltage"...and it "delivers 2.2 amps to the trains".
>
> This equates to 40.7 watts (amps x volts = watts). About equal to
an
> entry level American Flyer transformer.
>
> Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 21465 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: CASEY JONES
Anyone out there have a Casey Jones engine shell that is junk. I need the
smoke Stack off it for a transplant to a #88 Franklin. Will pay postage &
reas. amt for the shell or the stack only (Why ship the whole thing) It can
be all broken except for the stack. Thank You Mike
PS: contact me off list


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21466 From: splitdorf@1bigred.com Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Re: CASEY JONES
> Anyone out there have a Casey Jones engine shell that is junk. I need the
> smoke Stack off it for a transplant to a #88 Franklin

OK, Mike, you've got me curious. Whatcha doing with the Franklin? A little modern1zation project?

Sorry, no spare Casey Jones smokestack. My Casey Jones has a silver smokebox and working headlight. One of my kid's favorites now. They'd get a little upset if I carved the smokestack off it ;-)

Steve Blancard
Crustyfour
Custom Franklin Aficionado
Group: S-Trains Message: 21467 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Re: Help electronics experts....
Filtered means you hang a large capacitor on the DC output to make the
residual AC wave form go away. For series wound motors the old timers
(like me) used 2000ufd (A big capacitor) to smooth the DC out to
approach battery-like flatness. BTW, at creeping speeds they run better
with the filter out of the circuit (now called pulse control).

David wrote:
>
> How do you make a filtered DC power supply??? What is used to make
> the filter? Thanks!!
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21468 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1620
I didn't get to York this year. But I found a #762 mountain set in good
condition at a junk auction, it is missing the center section, I would be
interested in buying or trading for the center section if some one has
one or knows of a spar center section

Jerry 77-11644

________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21469 From: Don Abrams Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Re: 3 digit vs. 5 digit Santa Fe Freight PA
Other differences include the lack of a Roar cutoff switch on the bottom of
the 3-digit B unit.
Flanges are deeper on the 5-digit and the PullMor tire bands are replaceable
on these units.
One drawback (some may disagree with this) is that the 5-digit version has
the 2 position reverse unit. Possible sudden reversing on a curve taken too
fast or on dirty track!
Always check axles for excessive play. Grasp the opposite wheels on each
axle and try to rock the axle up and down.
Test run them if you can to see if they run sluggish. If you can avoid one
that needs rebushing to so -- unless the price is right. It's fairly
expensive to have it done -- not something a newbie can tackle on their own.
However, units I've rebushed run smoother, faster and draw less current than
originals that still have good axle holes in their frames. My rebushed 370
will run with as little 6-8 volts and just endlessly creep around a Flyer
oval without the motor hardly getting warm.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21470 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: watts
Here is my calculation for the 18B:

Circuit breaker (max amperage) is 8 amps. Max voltage 19v. 19 x 8 = 152 Watts.

Is this correct?

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21471 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Re: watts
It is essentially correct. Technically AC watts are measured
differently because phase shift is a factor. However, I use the same
formula for a rough guide.

jarcho@... wrote:
>
> Here is my calculation for the 18B:
>
> Circuit breaker (max amperage) is 8 amps. Max voltage 19v. 19 x 8 = 152 Watts.
>
> Is this correct?
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21472 From: John Foley Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Test
Testing
Group: S-Trains Message: 21473 From: Dan Brindell Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: AC vs. DC followup
Don Thompson wrote:

"Check the "volt-amp" ratings as many are not
very powerful. Classic AC Gilbert engines draw more current than today's DC
motors
and may need a bit more power. The MRC 6200 only delivers 60 VA of power."

I think Don has the right idea here, so now I am trying to figure out how
many amps to allow per Flyer engine. I am thinking 3 amps per Flyer is
about right. Can anybody confirm that or offer another opinion? (Maybe
somebody who has one of the ammeter-equipped transformers?)

Assuming 3 amps times 15 volts, each engine would need (approximately) 45
watts or (approximately) 45 VA. Then the 60 VA box could run one Flyer
engine, and a 150 watt Flyer transformer could run three engines.


Dan
Group: S-Trains Message: 21474 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: DC common rail
What I mean by aDC common rail system is this: one rail is connected to
the ground and connected throughout the layout. The other rail may be
switched between + and-, depending on the direction desired. All
separation into blocks (except reverse loops and wyes) is made in the non
ground rail, which is called the control rail. That much I know.

How does this work? My concept of "ground" is and always has been somewhat
hazy, except for vegetable gardens.


Presumably, a system that delivers DC to locomotives and AC to action cars
etc could also be termed a common rail system, but that is not what I am
asking about.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21475 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Re: DC common rail
I have an old lab power supply that's wired with a common and + or - 12
volts. It can also be connected as 24 volts across the + and _
terminals. The "ground" is really the center tap on a 24V DC voltage.
The + terminal is "more positive" than the ground and the minus terminal
is "less positive" than the ground. With such a system you could
polarity reverse by switching the non-ground terminal to the + or - 12
volt tap. Somewhat cumbersome and has no advantage over a simple DPDT
switch reversing the polarity of a simple 2 wire 12 volt DC output.

The exception to what I said above might be some advantage to signaling
and block control, though I haven't thought it through.

jarcho@... wrote:
>
> What I mean by aDC common rail system is this: one rail is connected to
> the ground and connected throughout the layout. The other rail may be
> switched between + and-, depending on the direction desired. All
> separation into blocks (except reverse loops and wyes) is made in the non
> ground rail, which is called the control rail. That much I know.
>
> How does this work? My concept of "ground" is and always has been somewhat
> hazy, except for vegetable gardens.
>
> Presumably, a system that delivers DC to locomotives and AC to action cars
> etc could also be termed a common rail system, but that is not what I am
> asking about.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21476 From: roy inman Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: K-line and S
Have a very substantial tip from a well-placed source at K-Line that S
products are indeed coming in the spring.
I emailed my source a short list of engines and asked the source to delete
the least likely. Same for cabeese and certain rolling stock favorites of
mine.
Left standing in the reply:
Articualted
4-8-4
E-6
Mac-90
Wood sided caboose (smoking)
Refer cars
Stock cars
Doesn't mean for sure that all or even any of these will be produced, I
suppose.
But, from what a couple of other people on the list got from Kline himself,
and now from my usually reliable source, there may be something to look
forward to from K-Line.
Cheers :)
Roy Inman
Group: S-Trains Message: 21477 From: Ron Inscho Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Fw: FBI issues warning for railroads
For Immediate Release
October 24, 2002 Washington D.C.
FBI National Press Office
On October 23, the FBI distributed through the NLETS communications system,
an intelligence update warning state and local law enforcement of recent
reporting that al-Qa'ida is targeting the U.S. railway sector. Information
from
debriefings of al-Qa'ida detainees as of mid-October indicates that the
group
has considered directly targeting U.S. passenger trains, possibly using
operatives who have a Western appearance.

This threat communication followed one issued on October 9, by the FBI, the
Office of Homeland Security and other federal agencies, warning of
heightened
operational intensity on the part of al-Qa'ida and loosely affiliated
terrorist
organizations.

The U.S. Intelligence Community continues to assess that al-Qa'ida plans to
attack targets that they believe would be readily recognized as representing
U.S. economic interests. Additional information suggests operatives may try
a
variety of other attack strategies, such as destroying key rail bridges and
sections of track to cause derailments or targeting hazardous material
containers. Recently captured al-Qa'ida photographs of U.S. railroad
engines,
cars, and crossings heighten the intelligence community's concern of this
threat.

The attack of the French oil tanker off the coast of Yemen and additional
information from al-Qa'ida detainees suggest plans exist to continue attacks
against the global petroleum sector. According to this information,
al-Qa'ida
plans to weaken the petroleum industry by conducting additional sea based
attacks against large oil tankers and that such attacks may be a part of
more
extensive operations against port facilities and other energy-related
targets
including oil facilities and nuclear power plants.

In addition, the U.S. Intelligence Community continues to receive general
threat reporting on such sectors as, the airline and maritime industries,
financial sector and government facilities and installations.

The United States Government, working with state and local law enforcement,
the railway industry, and other sectors, has begun the immediate
implementation
of additional protective measures including increased presence of law
enforcement officers, increased surveillance of critical areas and improved
physical protections.

The Department of Transportation security staff, the TSA and the Federal
Railroad Administration have worked closely with the American Association of
Railroads (AAR) to review the current threat data for rails and to implement
enhanced rail security measures. AAR represents North American freight
rails as
well as Amtrak. On Tuesday, AAR and DOT held a security briefing for
members'
law enforcement chiefs about the current threat information and coordinated
implementation of enhanced security measures. Amtrak has increased
patrolling of
its facilities and trains and all freight rails implemented additional
security
measures. Other DOT components, including the United States Coast Guard,
Federal Transit Administration and the Federal Motor Carrier Safety
Administration have implemented additional security measures as well.

The FBI Counterterrorism Division has urged state and local law enforcement
to discuss appropriate measures for their respective communities with their
designated joint terrorism task force and to continue to take all prudent
steps
to detect, disrupt, deter, and defend against potential attacks against
critical
infrastructure and installations.

The National Infrastructure Protection Center of the FBI has contacted the
private sector Information Sharing and Analysis Centers (ISACs) that
represent
various sectors of the economy. A primary NIPC mission is to issue warnings
regarding threat conditions to private sector ISACs and the owners and
operators
along with appropriate guidance on additional protection measures to be
taken.

The Department of Energy's Office of Energy Assurance has contacted key
energy infrastructure facilities and is working with them to enhance the
security environment to deter and/or disrupt potential attacks.

The Environmental Protection Agency has contacted the American Chemistry
Council, Chlorine Institute, American Petroleum Institute, Synthetic Organic
Chemical Manufactures Association, National Association of Chemical
Distributors, the Fertilizer Institute and CropLife America. These
organizations are communicating with their members and recommending
additional
security precautions.

Due to the lack of specificity of method, location, and timing, the
Homeland Security Advisory System threat level will remain at yellow
(elevated),
at this time.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21478 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: DC common rail
One advantage of using the center tap power supply is that one rail could
be connected (unbroken) throughout the layout which would result in better
power distribution.

Perhaps it would also be easier to use polarity dependent LED signals or
indicators too. Not sure about that.

Tom jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21479 From: roy inman Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: FW: K-line and S
Whoops!
Forgot to add:
Sets.
Roy Inman
----------
> From: roy inman <rinphoto@...>
> Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:14:37 -0500
> To: S-trains <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: K-line and S
>
> I emailed my source a short list of engines and asked the source to delete the
> least likely. Same for cabeese and certain rolling stock favorites of mine.
> Left standing in the reply:
Group: S-Trains Message: 21480 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: DC Common rail
Tom Jarcho suggested I pass on to the list this response I made to him.

>Tom.
>I don't know exactly what you're after, but here is some info. I run
>both AC and DC and use the AC common as the base rail and 15V line for action cars >while running DC on the same track. The only proviso is that the DC needs to
>come from a different transformer. This is because of the DPDT switch
>most people use for reversing DC, where the "base" side gets switched
>when reversing with DC. You can think of it as: a separate DC system
>can share one rail with an AC source. I learned a long time ago that
>the sources must be different transformers. Rectified DC from the same
>AC transformer will cause a short if you try the common rail.
>Hope this helps.
--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21481 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: New Items
Several new S gauge items are now available at Joe's
Train Repair.

1. Joe's Train Repair is pleased to announce the
upcoming release of a reproduction Track Gang
accessory for a fraction of the price of an original.

2. Joe's Train Repair has released Circus Car #3-- a
flatcar with tent, poles, stakes, and ropes.

3. Joe's Train Repair is now selling a completely new
line of first quality reproduction buttons for
American Flyer action cars and accessories. These
buttons far exceed any other reproductions currently
on the market, yet are priced the same or lower.
Available are single button, double button, rotary
switch, and 3-button varieties.

To see these exciting new products, go to:

http://home.nc.rr.com/joestrainrepair/index.htm

...and watch for future announcements!!!




=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21482 From: Rick Evans Date: 10/24/2002
Subject: Re: CASEY JONES
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] CASEY JONES
> Anyone out there have a Casey Jones engine shell that is junk. I need the
> smoke Stack off it for a transplant to a #88 Franklin

**((OK, Mike, you've got me curious. Whatcha doing with the Franklin? A little modern1zation project?))***

Hah!! I knew that post would for sure catch Steve's attention!!! :-)

Rick.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21483 From: Steve Blancard Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re: CASEY JONES
Yeah, my ears perked right up. The hook was set.

I'm intrigued by Mike's idea of making an early switcher. Lots of
possibilities.... Gives me incentive to get moving on my next Franky
project.

Steve

>
> **((OK, Mike, you've got me curious. Whatcha doing with the
Franklin? A little modern1zation project?))***
>
> Hah!! I knew that post would for sure catch Steve's
attention!!! :-)
>
> Rick.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21484 From: Alex Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re: watts
Hi folks:

The product of volts and amperes (both in RMS values, as measured on a
typical meter) will yield RMS watts, which is a perfectly usable calculation
and is DIRECTLY comparable to a DC wattage rating. That's the whole purpose
of RMS, or root mean square. RMS is that value that equates with the same
value of DC.

Do not worry about phase shift. For all intents and purposes, at the levels
found on a toy train layout, both current and voltage are in phase; there is
no phase shift or power factor to worry about.

== Alex in Maine
Radio AI2Q


-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Smith [mailto:cesmith@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 9:39 PM
To: jarcho@...
Cc: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] watts


It is essentially correct. Technically AC watts are measured
differently because phase shift is a factor. However, I use the same
formula for a rough guide.

jarcho@... wrote:
>
> Here is my calculation for the 18B:
>
> Circuit breaker (max amperage) is 8 amps. Max voltage 19v. 19 x 8 = 152
Watts.
>
> Is this correct?
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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Group: S-Trains Message: 21485 From: David Dewey Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: My computer is past-tense!! AAUGH!
HI all,
I am posting this from the Group's site on another computer. My
old computer passed away Wed. nite. Total death, won't even start
when you push the "on" button. This happened when I tried to restart
after it started in "Safe Mode" so something is very wrong inside.
So, I am out of touch, and no email addresses right now. Hope to
be "back" by the middle of next week. If nothing else, maybe we can
take my hard drive and hook it up as a "slave" on another unit and
salvage all those important addresses, etc!
See some of you at S-West tonite & tomorrow! Y'all take care.
S'
David D.
PS I might make it to chat on a borrowed system!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21486 From: splitdorf@1bigred.com Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: FBI issues warning for railroads
> Just great! Now I have to find 1:64 scale FBI agents to guard my layout ;-)

Steve Blancard
>
>
>
> For Immediate Release
> October 24, 2002 Washington D.C.
> FBI National Press Office
> On October 23, the FBI distributed through the NLETS communications system,
> an intelligence update warning state and local law enforcement of recent
> reporting that al-Qa'ida is targeting the U.S. railway sector. Information
> from
> debriefings of al-Qa'ida detainees as of mid-October indicates that the
> group
> has considered directly targeting U.S. passenger trains, possibly using
> operatives who have a Western appearance.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21487 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Double Header Hudson Fun.
I'm having so much fun with my tandem Hudsons that I thought I would share
it. What a blast. Stoke up those smoke units. Double Chuga Chuga and enough
smoke to fill the room. Hauling a heavy drag of 32 AF cars makes the engines
really work and rumble.

This is a link to Pictures of the smoking duo...

http://www.tuveson.com/hudsons/tandem_hudsons.htm

The pictures can't do it justice...

"S" Rules..

Carl
Group: S-Trains Message: 21488 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: another DC common r ?
Here is another question I have about DC common rail systems: how do you
hook up multiple power sources?

If you use only 1 power source to power a large toy rr, it must have a lot
of amps, potentially enough to weld pickup wheels to the rails and unleash
major destruction during shorts caused by derailments. I doubt such a
system would be kind to solid state circuit boards either, for those who
are partial to them.

With an AC common rail (base post) system, I have had as many as 6
transformers, mostly double turret, in phase, with the base posts or
commons connected together, to power various segments of the track (and
also action cars). Power flows beautifully and easily through a system
like that. In other words, it provides a lot of power but not too much at
any one spot.

How do you do this in a DC common rail system?? Can it be done? How are
the power sources connected to each other, if they are? Should the AC
sources of the DC(behind the rectifiers be in phase, or do some other rules
apply?

Thanks.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21489 From: John Foley Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re: [nasgmembers] Double Header Hudson Fun.
Carl
Great photos. Looks like your working on a layout.
My 2 year old grandson says Choo-Choo
John


At 02:09 PM 10/25/02 -0500, Carl Tuveson wrote:
>I'm having so much fun with my tandem Hudsons that I thought I would share
>it. What a blast. Stoke up those smoke units. Double Chuga Chuga and enough
>smoke to fill the room. Hauling a heavy drag of 32 AF cars makes the engines
>really work and rumble.
>
>This is a link to Pictures of the smoking duo...
>
>http://www.tuveson.com/hudsons/tandem_hudsons.htm
>
>The pictures can't do it justice...
>
>"S" Rules..
>
>Carl
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>nasgmembers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21490 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re: another DC common r ?
Tom,

Someone on the list may have a technical answer. However, I can tell you from experience: I have my transformers in phase with the base posts all connected and the output posts going to a bridge rectifier, then to the track. I have five transformers connected this way for five different blocks. Most of my locos have bridge rectifiers in their tenders and I use a DPDT switch to reverse polarity and reverse direction of the loco. Even the locos I haven't gotten around to converting yet work just fine, using the reverse unit for direction control. Unless some one knows otherwise, I consider this to be a DC common rail system. I also use a prewar 1282 transformer on AC for my accessories. I have found this transformer can deliver up to 25V. I dial up what I need to make the switches snap. Cheaper than buying a 30b. The AC comes back on the base posts with the DC and it doesn't seem to matter to the transformers, trains or accessories.

Hope this helps,
-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: jarcho@...
To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 3:28 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] another DC common r ?


Here is another question I have about DC common rail systems: how do you
hook up multiple power sources?

If you use only 1 power source to power a large toy rr, it must have a lot
of amps, potentially enough to weld pickup wheels to the rails and unleash
major destruction during shorts caused by derailments. I doubt such a
system would be kind to solid state circuit boards either, for those who
are partial to them.

With an AC common rail (base post) system, I have had as many as 6
transformers, mostly double turret, in phase, with the base posts or
commons connected together, to power various segments of the track (and
also action cars). Power flows beautifully and easily through a system
like that. In other words, it provides a lot of power but not too much at
any one spot.

How do you do this in a DC common rail system?? Can it be done? How are
the power sources connected to each other, if they are? Should the AC
sources of the DC(behind the rectifiers be in phase, or do some other rules
apply?

Thanks.

Tom Jarcho



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21491 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: More E-Bay Shenanigans
A guy on E-Bay wants to sell the S-Gauge NuFlyer TCA Museum tanker for a
starting bid of $100. See it for yourself:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1781200654

I wrote him this note:
"I was just at the museum. This car is in stock for $54.95. They will ship
it for a few dollars more. Why would anyone want this for $100 and up?"

This was his answer:
"Hey...just a guy tryin' to make a buck."

Here's my question. Which one of you wants to step up and tell me why you
have a problem with me doing what I did? Every time I nail one of these
a**holes, someone from this list mails me a variant on "Why don't you mind
your own business?" So, I'm just wondering . . .

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21492 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: K-Line
Joe Haenn said:
>Hopefully, if
>the K-Line rumor is true, that may be changing soon
>and we can get more kids into the perfect gauge.
>However, I just got off the telephone with Nick Ladd,
>their sales representative, and he knows nothings
>about any K-Line entry into the S gauge market and
>strongly doubts it will happen--at least not in the
>near future.

Neil Trump said:
>'News & Notes' pages which gave a small section devoted to the new K->Line
Big Boy.
>The article describes the loco as being for 1:48 scale but in fact is
actually >built to a scale of 1:64 in order to negotiate layouts with tight
curves.
>The suggested retail price is $400, which looks extremely good value,
>especially for those people that have the ability to re-gauge it for 'S'.
>I wonder how long it will take for the first one to be converted?


Joe:
Whatever Nick Ladd knows, Maury Klein knows more. My info comes from the
horses mouth, directly. I said: "Too bad you guys aren't into S-gauge."
Maury K-Line replied: "Wait until Toy Fair." I said "Really?" and he
answered: "We'll have a big surprise for you at Toy Fair." That's next
Spring.

Now what could that surprise be? Hmmmm. Does K-Line have anything now that
was built in 1/64th. scale but is gauged for 0? Something that won't
require massive tooling, just a chassis change? What could it be????????
COULD IT BE A BIG BOY? DO YA THINK?

Toy Fair. I can wait.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21493 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re: another DC common r ?
I have a 734 package unloading car, an oil barrel loader, a mail pickup car and a saw mill. They all work great. When I had a stockyard and cattle loading car, they worked fine also. I got tired of them, so I sold them.

----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Smith
To: Tim Brown
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] another DC common r ?


Do you use any AF action cars with the 15V (or whatever your hi volt AC
is) to the car actuator?

Tim Brown wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> Someone on the list may have a technical answer. However, I can tell you from experience: I have my transformers in phase with the base posts all connected and the output posts going to a bridge rectifier, then to the track. I have five transformers connected this way for five different blocks. Most of my locos have bridge rectifiers in their tenders and I use a DPDT switch to reverse polarity and reverse direction of the loco. Even the locos I haven't gotten around to converting yet work just fine, using the reverse unit for direction control. Unless some one knows otherwise, I consider this to be a DC common rail system. I also use a prewar 1282 transformer on AC for my accessories. I have found this transformer can deliver up to 25V. I dial up what I need to make the switches snap. Cheaper than buying a 30b. The AC comes back on the base posts with the DC and it doesn't seem to matter to the transformers, trains or accessories.
>
> Hope this helps,
> -Tim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: jarcho@...
> To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 3:28 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] another DC common r ?
>
> Here is another question I have about DC common rail systems: how do you
> hook up multiple power sources?
>
> If you use only 1 power source to power a large toy rr, it must have a lot
> of amps, potentially enough to weld pickup wheels to the rails and unleash
> major destruction during shorts caused by derailments. I doubt such a
> system would be kind to solid state circuit boards either, for those who
> are partial to them.
>
> With an AC common rail (base post) system, I have had as many as 6
> transformers, mostly double turret, in phase, with the base posts or
> commons connected together, to power various segments of the track (and
> also action cars). Power flows beautifully and easily through a system
> like that. In other words, it provides a lot of power but not too much at
> any one spot.
>
> How do you do this in a DC common rail system?? Can it be done? How are
> the power sources connected to each other, if they are? Should the AC
> sources of the DC(behind the rectifiers be in phase, or do some other rules
> apply?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21494 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re: More E-Bay Shenanigans
I don't have any problem with that, but hey, let's all flame on Chris just for fun (just kidding).
-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Zizzo
To: slist
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 6:02 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] More E-Bay Shenanigans


A guy on E-Bay wants to sell the S-Gauge NuFlyer TCA Museum tanker for a
starting bid of $100. See it for yourself:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1781200654

I wrote him this note:
"I was just at the museum. This car is in stock for $54.95. They will ship
it for a few dollars more. Why would anyone want this for $100 and up?"

This was his answer:
"Hey...just a guy tryin' to make a buck."

Here's my question. Which one of you wants to step up and tell me why you
have a problem with me doing what I did? Every time I nail one of these
a**holes, someone from this list mails me a variant on "Why don't you mind
your own business?" So, I'm just wondering . . .

Chris Zizzo



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21495 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: AC/DC
Well, on the one hand, ya got yer Teslas, with the AC. On the other, ya got
yer boy Edisons with the DC. Thomas Edison believed that DC was the
American Current, like Washington, D.C. Tesla, thank God, prevailed.

Old Flyer uses more current than any new trains, NuFlyer or otherwise.
Current is not voltage, but even there, many newer trains, especially
American Models, have upper voltage limits.

One of the current suckers on Old Flyer is the reverse solenoid. It is
always electrically engaged and always burning up current. Another amp user
is the on board lighting, especially those big passenger car bulbs. If you
plan to run a little Atlantic around pulling three box cars and an unlit
caboose, you will be fine with a G Gauge power pack. If you plan to run a
pair of double motored PA's pulling 10 lit passenger cars, ol' G won't get
you out of the station.

A 30B could manage it if you ran it's output through a sizeable full wave
rectifier. If you feel you need a filtered, smooooooth DC, drop a polarized
(and go plus to plus, OK?) capacitor across the rectifier output. Use a big
one. Use two! You can wire in a switch that will take them out of the
circuit when you want momentum pulses.

Here's the problem. The monster you created will be lying in wait to fry
your new trains because in DC, the 30B can crank even more volts! Oh, what
to do? One option is to install voltage regulators on your new equipment.
They just won't let in anything over their limit (give or take the posted
tolerance.)

Another option is to leave it alone, operate in AC and not worry about it
:-}

The third option is to seriously consider some kind of command control
system. In AC you have Lionel TMCC and the MTH systems. And then there is
DCC. Do your homework and you will find the pluses and minuses (a DC joke)
of each. The main advantage to ALL of them is: power is a constant. You
set it and . . . FORGET IT! Each engine only takes what it needs to
operate.

Look at it like this:
Suppose you needed to use your dishwasher. You call up the power company
and tell them you are ready to start washing dishes. They have an index
card that tells them that the machine you own operates at 460 volts, draws 8
amps, and uses a 3 Phase AC motor. So they switch over to that power and
give you 1 hour to get the job done. Of course, nobody else can have
anything on unless it fits those specifications, so bulbs start popping all
over the neighborhood.

A better way would be to provide a standard power source. Manufacturers
build appliances to conform to the voltage. The power is always available
at any current up to the maximum carrying capacity of the household service.
The appliances use what they need.

The second example is the way command systems work. The first example is
how toy train transformers traditionally control layouts.

If you are a nostalgia buff who wants his trains to operate like they used
to (It was good enough in 1952 and it's good enough now!) then cab command
is not for you. But, if you are considering a switch to DC, think some more
about the problem. DC doesn't buy you much. DCC (and the Big L and MTH
controls) adds another dimension of train fun.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21496 From: John L. Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re: More E-Bay Shenanigans
Chris - give us the URL to the TCA website so we can all get one for $54.95 - btw the
chap has 2 auctions of museum stock at $100.00 each - does TCA offer more train
goodies we can buy? Didnt know TCA had this stuff for sale myself until your posting
- what else do they have?.

Chris Zizzo wrote:

> A guy on E-Bay wants to sell the S-Gauge NuFlyer TCA Museum tanker for a
> starting bid of $100. See it for yourself:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1781200654
>
> I wrote him this note:
> "I was just at the museum. This car is in stock for $54.95. They will ship
> it for a few dollars more. Why would anyone want this for $100 and up?"
>
> This was his answer:
> "Hey...just a guy tryin' to make a buck."
>
> Here's my question. Which one of you wants to step up and tell me why you
> have a problem with me doing what I did? Every time I nail one of these
> a**holes, someone from this list mails me a variant on "Why don't you mind
> your own business?" So, I'm just wondering . . .
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21497 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: DC common rail
Tim: that is not a common rail system. A common rail system has one rail
that is unbroken, i e has no gaps in it, and polarity is reversed in only
one rail with an SPDT switch, except for reverse loops and wyes.

I assume you actuate action cars with a double pole push button that
momentarily feeds AC(base post) to one rail and a fixed voltage to the
action car third rail.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21498 From: eric.reis Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: AM GP35 shell swap or engines for sale.
I have 2 powered American Models GP 35 high rail AC powered engines in Rio
Grande black and Orange.

I would like to either swap the shells for Great Northern (preferred) or
Burlington Northern (second Choice). I would swap 1 or 2.

Or I would sell them for $320 (they are $200 each list at AM) or $160
each.

These engines are used but not overused and are in great working condition
and no real blemishes but a couple of loose handrails I will look into.

I can send pictures to anyone that wants one.

eric reis
Kenmore, wa.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21499 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, October 27, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page http://s-scale.org/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21500 From: Dan Brindell Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re: More E-Bay Shenanigans
The URL for the current year's car is
http://www.traincollectors.org/offers/nttmcar2002.html

and yes, it is available in S gauge. I don't know if you need to be a TCA
member to buy one or not.

Dan Brindell


----- Original Message -----
From: "John L." <larry.asp@...>
To: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
Cc: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] More E-Bay Shenanigans


> Chris - give us the URL to the TCA website so we can all get one for
$54.95 - btw the
> chap has 2 auctions of museum stock at $100.00 each - does TCA offer more
train
> goodies we can buy? Didnt know TCA had this stuff for sale myself until
your posting
> - what else do they have?.
>
> Chris Zizzo wrote:
>
> > A guy on E-Bay wants to sell the S-Gauge NuFlyer TCA Museum tanker for a
> > starting bid of $100. See it for yourself:
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1781200654
> >
> > I wrote him this note:
> > "I was just at the museum. This car is in stock for $54.95. They will
ship
> > it for a few dollars more. Why would anyone want this for $100 and up?"
> >
> > This was his answer:
> > "Hey...just a guy tryin' to make a buck."
> >
> > Here's my question. Which one of you wants to step up and tell me why
you
> > have a problem with me doing what I did? Every time I nail one of these
> > a**holes, someone from this list mails me a variant on "Why don't you
mind
> > your own business?" So, I'm just wondering . . .
> >
> > Chris Zizzo
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21501 From: Dan Brindell Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re: More E-Bay Shenanigans (correction)
The URL I gave before is the one for the wheel car. The tank car is at
http://www.traincollectors.org/gifts.html

One thing that's interesting: this page shows the tank car in both S and O
gauges. Naturally, the S gauge car is smaller than the O. But the platform
around the tank car dome is about the same size in S as in O. That is to
say, it is ridiculously oversized for S. I think this is true of most
"Flyonel" tank cars I have seen.

By the way, it looks like you don't have to be a TCA member to buy the cars.
I guess they are glad to take your money either way ;-).

Dan Brindell


----- Original Message -----
From: "John L." <larry.asp@...>
To: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
Cc: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] More E-Bay Shenanigans


> Chris - give us the URL to the TCA website so we can all get one for
$54.95 - btw the
> chap has 2 auctions of museum stock at $100.00 each - does TCA offer more
train
> goodies we can buy? Didnt know TCA had this stuff for sale myself until
your posting
> - what else do they have?.
>
> Chris Zizzo wrote:
>
> > A guy on E-Bay wants to sell the S-Gauge NuFlyer TCA Museum tanker for a
> > starting bid of $100. See it for yourself:
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1781200654
> >
> > I wrote him this note:
> > "I was just at the museum. This car is in stock for $54.95. They will
ship
> > it for a few dollars more. Why would anyone want this for $100 and up?"
> >
> > This was his answer:
> > "Hey...just a guy tryin' to make a buck."
> >
> > Here's my question. Which one of you wants to step up and tell me why
you
> > have a problem with me doing what I did? Every time I nail one of these
> > a**holes, someone from this list mails me a variant on "Why don't you
mind
> > your own business?" So, I'm just wondering . . .
> >
> > Chris Zizzo
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21502 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: TCA S-Gauge offerings
http://www.traincollectors.org/gifts.html

Tank cars are third item on page. Also, wheel carrying flat is same price.
TCA museum in ceramic is Dept. 56 "Christmas in the City" quality, S sized.
"J" tower is gorgeous, but bigger, more 1/48th.

Enjoy.
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21503 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: DC footnote
OK, you guys brought it up, so here's what I'm working on.

I've got a monster power supply. It makes available 400 Amps at 24 volts
DC. It was designed for an arc bulb theater projector. It has a rheostat
to control output voltage and the AC can be tapped in front of the
rectifier. Talk about welding! This is not 400 watts. It's 400 amps. At
24 volts, that's 9600 watts. Tuned down to 18 volts, it's more like 7200
watts, or 29 Lionel ZW's.

My plan is to section the layout into blocks, each regulated by a 10 amp
fuse or breaker. That will make the available power, in each block, 180
watts, prior to protection kicking in. Essentially, I am duplicating the
type of power distribution used by utilities. I can make certain industries
a power block. Building lighting is a power block. Accessories can be
divided among blocks. And no more than a few feet of track will be under a
single block control at one time. Even though trains can move independently
throughout the layout, under the power of a single source, they will
nonetheless pass from power block to power block, protected from any serious
melt-down power. Control of the trains, exerted through a centralized
system, will pass through the main power supply and permeate all power
blocks at once, so that, no matter where a train is on the layout, it is
under a single cab command control.

Pray for me.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21504 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re: AC/DC
Chris,

You make a strong argument for DCC. I considered it, but found a couple of downsides. First:
DCC transformers only put out, what is it, 14 volts? We were told in a DCC seminar at the NASG convention last summer that any more voltage would fry the DCC chip installed in the loco (or tender). I'm afraid that 14 volts at 100 (I'm guessing here) watts may not be quite enough to run some of my locos well (translate - fast, like a Flyer). I've tested my locos on a digital multimeter wired in line with the current, and they draw at or slightly below spec, so I don't think I have any resistance issues. Some of my switches take 18 volts, give or take (I know there are resistance issues with some of them due to old, slightly fried coils).

Second:
While the initial cost of DCC seems reasonable, consider all the costs. I will need to install a chip in every loco I have and every loco I buy. We can't run both conventional and DCC at the same time on the same track (well, we can, but the conventional locos will run fully blast wild).

With the above power issues and the total cost of DCC, I am reluctant to spend the money on an experiment that may not work out for me. Am I wrong? Is there a work-around?

I think the voltage solution may be to eliminate the reverse units with the DCC chip and install a can motor with a permanent magnet. But now we have even more cost.

I wonder how far Gilbert would have pushed the technology. Probably as far as it will go, since he was an innovator and pioneer. But he never got the chance, 'cuz the train market went into the tank in the early 60's. So here we are.

Thanks,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Zizzo
To: slist
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 7:26 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] AC/DC


Well, on the one hand, ya got yer Teslas, with the AC. On the other, ya got
yer boy Edisons with the DC. Thomas Edison believed that DC was the
American Current, like Washington, D.C. Tesla, thank God, prevailed.

Old Flyer uses more current than any new trains, NuFlyer or otherwise.
Current is not voltage, but even there, many newer trains, especially
American Models, have upper voltage limits.

One of the current suckers on Old Flyer is the reverse solenoid. It is
always electrically engaged and always burning up current. Another amp user
is the on board lighting, especially those big passenger car bulbs. If you
plan to run a little Atlantic around pulling three box cars and an unlit
caboose, you will be fine with a G Gauge power pack. If you plan to run a
pair of double motored PA's pulling 10 lit passenger cars, ol' G won't get
you out of the station.

A 30B could manage it if you ran it's output through a sizeable full wave
rectifier. If you feel you need a filtered, smooooooth DC, drop a polarized
(and go plus to plus, OK?) capacitor across the rectifier output. Use a big
one. Use two! You can wire in a switch that will take them out of the
circuit when you want momentum pulses.

Here's the problem. The monster you created will be lying in wait to fry
your new trains because in DC, the 30B can crank even more volts! Oh, what
to do? One option is to install voltage regulators on your new equipment.
They just won't let in anything over their limit (give or take the posted
tolerance.)

Another option is to leave it alone, operate in AC and not worry about it
:-}

The third option is to seriously consider some kind of command control
system. In AC you have Lionel TMCC and the MTH systems. And then there is
DCC. Do your homework and you will find the pluses and minuses (a DC joke)
of each. The main advantage to ALL of them is: power is a constant. You
set it and . . . FORGET IT! Each engine only takes what it needs to
operate.

Look at it like this:
Suppose you needed to use your dishwasher. You call up the power company
and tell them you are ready to start washing dishes. They have an index
card that tells them that the machine you own operates at 460 volts, draws 8
amps, and uses a 3 Phase AC motor. So they switch over to that power and
give you 1 hour to get the job done. Of course, nobody else can have
anything on unless it fits those specifications, so bulbs start popping all
over the neighborhood.

A better way would be to provide a standard power source. Manufacturers
build appliances to conform to the voltage. The power is always available
at any current up to the maximum carrying capacity of the household service.
The appliances use what they need.

The second example is the way command systems work. The first example is
how toy train transformers traditionally control layouts.

If you are a nostalgia buff who wants his trains to operate like they used
to (It was good enough in 1952 and it's good enough now!) then cab command
is not for you. But, if you are considering a switch to DC, think some more
about the problem. DC doesn't buy you much. DCC (and the Big L and MTH
controls) adds another dimension of train fun.

Chris Zizzo



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Group: S-Trains Message: 21505 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re: DC common rail
Tom,

I get it. Now I wonder too if a common rail system is feasible with AC converted to DC. I do have a continuous base rail and I only break the positive rail at blocks, and all my base posts are wired together, but I still run + and - through a DPDT switch to the track. I think I need to experiment a little.

Thanks,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: jarcho@...
To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 8:06 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] DC common rail


Tim: that is not a common rail system. A common rail system has one rail
that is unbroken, i e has no gaps in it, and polarity is reversed in only
one rail with an SPDT switch, except for reverse loops and wyes.

I assume you actuate action cars with a double pole push button that
momentarily feeds AC(base post) to one rail and a fixed voltage to the
action car third rail.

Tom Jarcho



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Group: S-Trains Message: 21506 From: Lance McCold Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re AC v.DC
Despite Tom's caution about speaking up, I will take a chance in the hope that my experience will help someone.

I have converted all of my Flyer trains to (unfiltered) DC. They work great. (The really cool thing if you convert your engines to DC is that they go forward when YOU want them to and backward when YOU want them to).
The solenoid in the action caboose works BETTER than before because it does not chatter like it did. Unmodified Flyer engines work just fine. However, I do not have any sound devices--they might not work right with DC--perhaps someone else can speak to experience with them. Possibly, the reverse units will not work as well because with DC there is less vibration to overcome their stickiness.
You can buy a big DC power pack. However, if you already have a big AC power pack, you can convert to DC easily and for much less money than buying a new power pack by putting a rectifier bridge and a DPDT switch between the transformer and the rails. Another advantage of this approach is that if you have equipment that needs AC, all you have to do is to remove the rectifier (AC-to-DC converter) out from between the transformer and track and run the AC power out directly to the track again. I recommend building your own, save money for buying more S stuff!
I have not used the Flyer rectifier, but the rectifiers Radio Shack sells are cheap and come in various capacities.

Lance McCold
Knoxville, Tennessee

PS: The fuse rating times the max output voltage does not give the correct volt-amps. The voltage delivered by the transformer will be much lower than its maximum well before it delivers 8 amps. The transformer has internal resistance, so the more current it delivers the less voltage it has available for running trains after overcoming its internal resistance.
Most devices list input voltage (which is very constant, thanks to the utility) and maximum current draw from the line (household outlet). The product of those two numbers will modestly overstate the volt-amps available to run trains, so multiply it by about 0.8 to get a decent estimate of the VA capacity of the transformer.

>Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 08:31:37 -0400
> From: "Dan Brindell" <dbrindell@...>
>Subject: Questions about DC vs. AC
>
>Awhile ago there was a thread about running Flyer on DC instead of AC. I
>don't want to re-start the whole darn thread again, but I do have a couple
>of questions. For awhile now I have been thinking about buying a high-end
>DC powerpack (such as an MRC 6200 which is really intended for G scale). I
>would use it to run not only universal-motor Flyer on DC, but also modern
>hi-rail trains that are DC only.
>
>I thought of this purchase again when I noticed that the S-helper F-7's are
>$199 if you buy DC-only, but $299 if you buy AC/DC. So the questions are:
>
>1. Has anybody tried running both u-m Flyer and modern DC-only trains on a
>DC powerpack of appropriate size? If so, what kind of results did you get?
>Any problems/pitfalls?
>
>2. What kind of Flyer operating cars and accessories, if any, won't run on
>DC? Items equipped with vibrators, such as the cattle yard? Or do
>solenoids have problems too?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Dan Brindell
Group: S-Trains Message: 21507 From: jahoozdumm Date: 10/25/2002
Subject: Re AC v.DC
Lance McCold wrote:

>Unmodified Flyer engines work just fine. However, I do not have any
>sound devices--they might not work right with DC

The air chime whistle and diesel horn systems that use the
vibrator "tube" will not work properly with unfiltered DC. The
horn/whistle speaker will honk constantly whenever power is applied
to the loco.


>Possibly, the reverse units will not work as well because with DC
>there is less vibration to overcome their stickiness.

They may also become magnetized because of the constant single
polarity, which might make them stickier.


>if you already have a big AC power pack, you can convert to DC
>easily and for much less money than buying a new power pack by
>putting a rectifier bridge and a DPDT switch between the
>transformer and the rails. Another advantage of this approach is
>that if you have equipment that needs AC, all you have to do is to
>remove the rectifier(AC-to-DC converter) out from between the
>transformer and track and run the AC power out directly to the track
>again.

Not a bad idea, especially if you want to make sure Smitty the
Walking Brakeman keeps "walking" properly. He may not get enough
vibration to move well with full wave or even half wave DC.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21508 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/26/2002
Subject: Re: AC/DC
Tim:
Any seminar I have attended has advised against using DCC with Flyer open
frame motors. You are quite right about conversion to cans (so easy now
with the gorgeous motor set-ups available).

TMCC wil be another story and much higher wattage will be available to you
there.

Get your switches powered separately. Using one transformer for everything
is not going to work on an expanding pike unless you've got a monster supply
(like me.) Even ZWs and 30Bs are going to run out of steam with multiple
big trains and a lot of accessories.

Sidebar to Don Thompson: Don't tell him!!! Actually, my power supply will
be totally voltage regulated so all my engines,AM, AF or SHS, will be
protected and never overpowered.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21509 From: bilfrazier@aol.com Date: 10/26/2002
Subject: Re: DCC
In a message dated 10/26/02 9:07:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:

> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 08:52:11 -0400
> From: Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...>
> Subject: Re: AC/DC
>
> Tim:
> Any seminar I have attended has advised against using DCC with Flyer open
> frame motors.
>
Chris,

Just wondering, why do they advise this?
I have a few Flyer locos that have DCC decoders in them, and they seem to run
OK.

Bill Frazier


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21510 From: robert allen conner Date: 10/26/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line Big Boy
Guys...from what I was told it is sold out....It looks nice...only saw one
for sale at York...Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil Trump" <neil.trump@...>
To: "S-Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 1:47 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] K-Line Big Boy


>
> I received my December issue of CTT today and happened to read the 'News &
Notes' pages which gave a small section devoted to the new K-Line Big Boy.
>
> The article describes the loco as being for 1:48 scale but in fact is
actually built to a scale of 1:64 in order to negotiate layouts with tight
curves.
>
> The suggested retail price is $400, which looks extremely good value,
especially for those people that have the ability to re-gauge it for 'S'.
>
> I wonder how long it will take for the first one to be converted?
>
> Regards,
>
> Neil T.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21511 From: robert allen conner Date: 10/26/2002
Subject: Re: K line
I guess the note I sent from another computer didn't make it...I too spoke
with Kline...same story...watch for the Toy fair...Bob Conner
Group: S-Trains Message: 21512 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/26/2002
Subject: Re: Re AC v.DC
Hi,

I have found that my reverse units work just fine using DC voltage. The key is to keep a beautifully maintained reverse unit. Keep that drum clean and the fingers solid (fill holes or replace as needed). Keep every pivot point lubed with a bit of lithium (or better) grease.

I believe sound devices such as whistles would blow constantly. You might have to disable a whistle on a 336 if running on DC voltage.

Consider this, though. The next step in migration towards DCC would be to replace the open frame motors with high quality can motors. I run as pure a Flyer fleet as I can, but see no harm in advancing with the technology. That doesn't mean we would have to rip up all our Flyer track and replace it with high rail track. IMHO, DCC represents advanced technology, high rail track doesn't. I believe we can upgrade Flyer electronics while still remaining pure to it. It's something I am considering.

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Lance McCold
To: S-Trains
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 11:14 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re AC v.DC


Despite Tom's caution about speaking up, I will take a chance in the hope that my experience will help someone.

I have converted all of my Flyer trains to (unfiltered) DC. They work great. (The really cool thing if you convert your engines to DC is that they go forward when YOU want them to and backward when YOU want them to).
The solenoid in the action caboose works BETTER than before because it does not chatter like it did. Unmodified Flyer engines work just fine. However, I do not have any sound devices--they might not work right with DC--perhaps someone else can speak to experience with them. Possibly, the reverse units will not work as well because with DC there is less vibration to overcome their stickiness.
You can buy a big DC power pack. However, if you already have a big AC power pack, you can convert to DC easily and for much less money than buying a new power pack by putting a rectifier bridge and a DPDT switch between the transformer and the rails. Another advantage of this approach is that if you have equipment that needs AC, all you have to do is to remove the rectifier (AC-to-DC converter) out from between the transformer and track and run the AC power out directly to the track again. I recommend building your own, save money for buying more S stuff!
I have not used the Flyer rectifier, but the rectifiers Radio Shack sells are cheap and come in various capacities.

Lance McCold
Knoxville, Tennessee

PS: The fuse rating times the max output voltage does not give the correct volt-amps. The voltage delivered by the transformer will be much lower than its maximum well before it delivers 8 amps. The transformer has internal resistance, so the more current it delivers the less voltage it has available for running trains after overcoming its internal resistance.
Most devices list input voltage (which is very constant, thanks to the utility) and maximum current draw from the line (household outlet). The product of those two numbers will modestly overstate the volt-amps available to run trains, so multiply it by about 0.8 to get a decent estimate of the VA capacity of the transformer.

>Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 08:31:37 -0400
> From: "Dan Brindell" <dbrindell@...>
>Subject: Questions about DC vs. AC
>
>Awhile ago there was a thread about running Flyer on DC instead of AC. I
>don't want to re-start the whole darn thread again, but I do have a couple
>of questions. For awhile now I have been thinking about buying a high-end
>DC powerpack (such as an MRC 6200 which is really intended for G scale). I
>would use it to run not only universal-motor Flyer on DC, but also modern
>hi-rail trains that are DC only.
>
>I thought of this purchase again when I noticed that the S-helper F-7's are
>$199 if you buy DC-only, but $299 if you buy AC/DC. So the questions are:
>
>1. Has anybody tried running both u-m Flyer and modern DC-only trains on a
>DC powerpack of appropriate size? If so, what kind of results did you get?
>Any problems/pitfalls?
>
>2. What kind of Flyer operating cars and accessories, if any, won't run on
>DC? Items equipped with vibrators, such as the cattle yard? Or do
>solenoids have problems too?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Dan Brindell


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21513 From: robert allen conner Date: 10/26/2002
Subject: Re: York
Finally got back....lots of stuff....Motel worked out fine at the Billy
Bud....When I checked out saturday the clerk asked if I wanted to reserve in
the spring...I asked would it be 75.00? No she replied...the TCA members get
a special rate of 89.00...with a 90.00 deposit!!! Anyway...
Finds...At York
Not a whole lot...prices were high...But..372 nice 150, 953 with original
engine box 100, pile of model builder and toy train mags 30, 1/64 hartoy
trucks several at 4 ea, I wanted a snow set...795.. but the best he would go
was 780...passed....mth standard set 850...both gone on sat when i went
back....got two nice g gauge items from ro for 150...speed bilt saberjet
wood model for 70....but
on the way up, in a small Antique mall in Georgia....750 bridge in ob..nice
68, 274 harbor junct 110, 5610 o set box with lots of boxed track 32, 4 red
stripe pass cars( one repainted) 100, 1939 original cat with flyer paper 3,
all at 10% off...total spent 1200.00 on toys this trip...

All in all...lots of nice stuff there on display...Fram set at 6200, Engines
at 1000+ unopened...Crowds extremely thick....glad i went back after 11
years....

Bob Conner
Group: S-Trains Message: 21514 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 10/26/2002
Subject: Flyer Videos
Hi all,

I know some of you have a dislike for eBay and shameless advertising,
so ya'll can stop reading now.

I currently have the following two American Flyer video packages
listed on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1779746948&rd=1

This package includes American Flyer Part One – 60 minutes of S gauge
fun and thrills on four fabulous American Flyer layouts and American
Flyer Part Two – 60 minutes of S gauge on three large American Flyer
layouts.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1779756815&rd=1

First up is American Flyer Boys Railroad Club Film Collection – 55
minutes of S gauge fun with the Boys Railroad Club! Next up is 30
minutes of Classic Train Commercials of the 50s and 60s. Finally
relax with the 55 minute classic movie Union Depot followed by a tour
of the AC Gilbert factory as seen on the popular 50s TV show You
Asked For It.

Thank you for looking and happy 'S' railroading!

BG1
Group: S-Trains Message: 21515 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 10/26/2002
Subject: Re: AC/DC (and DCC)
There is another possibility on the horizon which suggests delaying a decision to go with DCC. The product planners at Lionel are still talking about a new steam engine for this next year (with two more possibles to follow). If the industry jumps in with TMCC for Flyer, this would provide a viable alternative to conventional running. Lionel is introducing what everyone is calling the TMCC "black box" which inserts between your existing transformer and the track contections and permits user access to engine features in a simple and user-friendly way with a set of push bottons. I've tried it with O gauge at York, and it works. It is a viable half way point for those who do not want to go with full Cab-1 CC. Adoption of TMCC also opens up the use of Lionel/IC controls TPC300/400 which provide for much finer control of speed for any engine including conventional AC PW.

The explanation for the delay in a new Flyer steam engine is related to the engineering and development of the new Lionel USRA 0-8-0 switchers. In the process of developing these engines they learned a lot about how to cram all of the features of TMCC, Railsounds, electrocouplers, and the infrared teather into a smaller package (say, like an S gauge steam engine). They seem to realise that if they bring out a new AF S gauge engine, it better be good and have as many features as possible (and not be Flyer "Lite"). I have one of the new switchers (NYC) and all I can say is that it is one sweeeeeeet piece! Super smoke, 4 chuffs per rev., great Railsounds with Dynachuff, an operating electrocoupler on each end, infrared teather, mucho detail and high fidelity to the NYC U3a prototype, and Odyssey cruise control -- definitely NOT your grandfather's 343! Street price is around $550. If they can do the same for a new S gauge steamer, we are all (well, many of us) are going to be very happy.

No promises (but this is what Todd Wagner, their chief of product planning continues to tell me). You might just say a prayer or two <grin>.

Bob Bubeck
Group: S-Trains Message: 21516 From: Mark Preman Date: 10/26/2002
Subject: Thomas the Tank Engine in S Gauge-Blatant Ad
They are coming! Thomas and two car motorized
consist(forward only) ready to run on your S gauge
layout. Amaze the grandkids! Orders can be placed at
americanflyertrains.com or Putt trains. The price is
$65 plus $4 S&H. Great gift for the little person not
allowed to play with the dad's trains! Mark

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

__________________________________________________
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Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21517 From: Neil Trump Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: K Line offerings
To all:

Looking at the possibility of K line producing large steam loco's in 'S' gauge for us, I see that they are calling this new 'O' gauge line the 'Titans' series.

At present it looks like they have two loco's in this range. The first is the Big Boy and the other is a C&O Allegheny 2-6-6-6.

Although they openly admit that they are proportionally scaled down for the ordinary 'O' gauge operator to run them on O-31 track, they don't actually say to what scale they have been built. Looking at the dimensions for a Big Boy I worked out that for 'S' we should be looking at a loco around 24.75" (I hope this is right) and the actual model by K line is just over 28" long. OK it isn't much and may even look fine side by side to some of the AF steamers that Gilbert made. If you had to put a scale to this model I calculated it to be around 1:58, which is closer to 'S' than 'O', so we gain out of this more than they do. A question to ask is, where did CTT source the information regarding the scale being 1:64? Did K line supply it or did CTT actually measure it for real?

Either way I suppose it doesn't matter, for the sake of being about 17% over scale I'm sure there will be a number of us that are prepared to overlook this discrepancy just to be able to run some big engines at a good price.

Regards,

Neil T.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21518 From: robert allen conner Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: Re: K Line offerings
Neil....Has anyone actually measured the AF engines and cars to see how
close they come to scale? I know they are "s" in height but "o" in
width...Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil Trump" <neil.trump@...>
To: "S-Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 8:21 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] K Line offerings


> To all:
>
> Looking at the possibility of K line producing large steam loco's in 'S'
gauge for us, I see that they are calling this new 'O' gauge line the
'Titans' series.
>
> At present it looks like they have two loco's in this range. The first is
the Big Boy and the other is a C&O Allegheny 2-6-6-6.
>
> Although they openly admit that they are proportionally scaled down for
the ordinary 'O' gauge operator to run them on O-31 track, they don't
actually say to what scale they have been built. Looking at the dimensions
for a Big Boy I worked out that for 'S' we should be looking at a loco
around 24.75" (I hope this is right) and the actual model by K line is just
over 28" long. OK it isn't much and may even look fine side by side to some
of the AF steamers that Gilbert made. If you had to put a scale to this
model I calculated it to be around 1:58, which is closer to 'S' than 'O', so
we gain out of this more than they do. A question to ask is, where did CTT
source the information regarding the scale being 1:64? Did K line supply it
or did CTT actually measure it for real?
>
> Either way I suppose it doesn't matter, for the sake of being about 17%
over scale I'm sure there will be a number of us that are prepared to
overlook this discrepancy just to be able to run some big engines at a good
price.
>
> Regards,
>
> Neil T.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21519 From: Don Thompson Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: Re: AF widths
Dear Bob,
Which engines and cars are "O" in width?
Don

robert allen conner wrote:

> Neil....Has anyone actually measured the AF engines and cars to see how
> close they come to scale? I know they are "s" in height but "o" in
> width...Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Neil Trump" <neil.trump@...>
> To: "S-Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 8:21 AM
> Subject: [S-Trains] K Line offerings
>
> > To all:
> >
> > Looking at the possibility of K line producing large steam loco's in 'S'
> gauge for us, I see that they are calling this new 'O' gauge line the
> 'Titans' series.
> >
> > At present it looks like they have two loco's in this range. The first is
> the Big Boy and the other is a C&O Allegheny 2-6-6-6.
> >
> > Although they openly admit that they are proportionally scaled down for
> the ordinary 'O' gauge operator to run them on O-31 track, they don't
> actually say to what scale they have been built. Looking at the dimensions
> for a Big Boy I worked out that for 'S' we should be looking at a loco
> around 24.75" (I hope this is right) and the actual model by K line is just
> over 28" long. OK it isn't much and may even look fine side by side to some
> of the AF steamers that Gilbert made. If you had to put a scale to this
> model I calculated it to be around 1:58, which is closer to 'S' than 'O', so
> we gain out of this more than they do. A question to ask is, where did CTT
> source the information regarding the scale being 1:64? Did K line supply it
> or did CTT actually measure it for real?
> >
> > Either way I suppose it doesn't matter, for the sake of being about 17%
> over scale I'm sure there will be a number of us that are prepared to
> overlook this discrepancy just to be able to run some big engines at a good
> price.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Neil T.

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 21520 From: Neil Trump Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: Re: K Line offerings and width
Robert,

I don't remember reading anywhere that it has been done, perhaps someone
else can shed some light here.

The five engines made to 'O' width are the Northern, Hudson, K5, 0-8-0 and
the Atlantic

Neil T.


> Neil....Has anyone actually measured the AF engines and cars to see how
> close they come to scale? I know they are "s" in height but "o" in
> width...Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Neil Trump" <neil.trump@...>
> To: "S-Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 8:21 AM
> Subject: [S-Trains] K Line offerings
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21521 From: Walt Danylak Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: Re: AF width
--- In S-Trains@y..., "Neil Trump" <neil.trump@b...> wrote: ...
The five engines made to 'O' width are the Northern, Hudson, K5, 0-8-
0 and the Atlantic

Neil T.

Neil,
While AC Gilbert first marketed these locomotives as 3/16" O Gauge,
they were in fact S gauge in size except for the steam chests which
were made wider to better accept O gauge trucks. After the change
from 3/16" O gauge to S gauge, new steam chests were made to S gauge
width.

Walt Danylak
Group: S-Trains Message: 21522 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: Af width
I believe that those 5 original Flyer steamers are also too wide in the
firebox area to accommodate the motor fields. The Reading Atlantic and K-5
may have been chosen in the first place because they originals had such
wide fireboxes.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21523 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: Bridge rectifier to dpdt switch
Can someone please help me again. I cant find a diagram to show me this. I
want to run dc using my 15 b flyer transformer. Base post and variable go to
the plus and minus on the rectifier. outputs from rectifier go to the dpdt
switch to the middle post.Do I then criss cross the wire to the remaining
post and bring to wire to the track off of either of those two post. Do I
have it right? I can't remember for sure. Thanks CB the trainnut


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21524 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: Re: DCC
Possibly the reason for advising against using A/F open frame motors is the
arcing and sparking generated by the brushes providing interference with the
signal???
In the early fifties as television was sweeping the land, it was easy to
tell when certain pieces of eqpt were running in the near vicinity. Just
watch the screen (if possible) while it ran.
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21525 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: Re: Bridge rectifier to dpdt switch
Base and 7-15V go to the AC terminals on the rectifier (usually
identified by a sine wave symbol). Rectifier terminals marked plus and
minus go the pair of terminals on one end of DPDT switch. these are
cross wired to the pair of terminals on the other end of the DPDT.
Center pair of terminals on the DPDT go to track.

Cbtrainnut1@... wrote:
>
> Can someone please help me again. I cant find a diagram to show me this. I
> want to run dc using my 15 b flyer transformer. Base post and variable go to
> the plus and minus on the rectifier. outputs from rectifier go to the dpdt
> switch to the middle post.Do I then criss cross the wire to the remaining
> post and bring to wire to the track off of either of those two post. Do I
> have it right? I can't remember for sure. Thanks CB the trainnut
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21526 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, October 27, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page http://s-scale.org/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21527 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: ROBINSON'S (TRACKS AHEAD) LAYOUT
Hi S Model Railroaders,

Here for your enjoyment is the layout our
North Penn S Gaugers visited on Thursday.
This was shown on Tracks ahead 3 months
ago on PBS television.

http://kulpritterpics.homestead.com/robinsonrr.html

I hope this inspires you to build,
model, scenic and detail your layouts.
It's all about having fun, exchanging ideas
and building up the hobby.

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn
http://www.glennritterarchitect.com/
http://www.geocities.com/glenn_ritter/belfry.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 21528 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: AF 0-8-0 Conversion to TMCC and Elecrocouplers
This is an American Flyer 0-8-0 I have converted to Lionel's Trainmaster
Remote Control with OPERATING couplers, using converted Lionel
Electrocouplers that are modified to mate with AF.


Here is a web page with some details and pictures.

http://tuveson.webmage.com/0-8-0/0-8-0.htm

Carl
Group: S-Trains Message: 21529 From: Don Thompson Date: 10/27/2002
Subject: Re: AF 0-8-0 Conversion to TMCC and Elecrocouplers
Dear Carl,
One of the neatest things about the "L" TrainMaster are all of the sounds that
can be made, but I did not see a speaker, where did you hide it?
Don

Carl Tuveson wrote:

> This is an American Flyer 0-8-0 I have converted to Lionel's Trainmaster
> Remote Control with OPERATING couplers, using converted Lionel
> Electrocouplers that are modified to mate with AF.
>
> Here is a web page with some details and pictures.
>
> http://tuveson.webmage.com/0-8-0/0-8-0.htm
>
> Carl

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 21530 From: colleenandrob Date: 10/28/2002
Subject: Step by step instructions for CD Conv?
Hello,

Is there any place that shows the conversion to DC step by step.
I've heard it's not complicated but until I do it the first time I'm
concerned. Forgive me if this information is available on this group
but I didn't see it. Any and all info would be helpful. I'm
converting my AF and I'll save the parts to restore to original. I
just want to construct a layout right now and many of my engines have
non-working or pooly performing reverse units.


Thanks for all help.

Rob
Group: S-Trains Message: 21531 From: AF336 Date: 10/28/2002
Subject: Re: TCA S-Gauge offerings
I just called them and they said they did not have any more of the S-gauge
tank cars in stock.

MK


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
To: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 7:54 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] TCA S-Gauge offerings


> http://www.traincollectors.org/gifts.html
>
> Tank cars are third item on page. Also, wheel carrying flat is same
price.
> TCA museum in ceramic is Dept. 56 "Christmas in the City" quality, S
sized.
> "J" tower is gorgeous, but bigger, more 1/48th.
>
> Enjoy.
> Chris Zizzo
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21532 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/28/2002
Subject: Re: Step by step instructions for CD Conv?
Hi Rob,

Everything you need to know is on my website at:

http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html

Have fun!
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: colleenandrob
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 4:10 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Step by step instructions for CD Conv?


Hello,

Is there any place that shows the conversion to DC step by step.
I've heard it's not complicated but until I do it the first time I'm
concerned. Forgive me if this information is available on this group
but I didn't see it. Any and all info would be helpful. I'm
converting my AF and I'll save the parts to restore to original. I
just want to construct a layout right now and many of my engines have
non-working or pooly performing reverse units.


Thanks for all help.

Rob


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21533 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 10/28/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1627
To some of our electrical wizards:

As the train runs there is sparking at the electrical pick up wheels,
is this caused by a voltage spike generated be the field coil and
armature coils, as the pick up wheels lose electrical contact with the
track, interrupting the coil current, causing the magnetic field in the
coils to collapse thru the coil winding causing the spike. As in DC
coils a snubber diode will eliminate the spark at the switch or spike at
the transistor that controls the coil. Will the addition of a capacitor
Across the pick up wheels reduce the sparking at the wheels? If not, what
will help reduce the sparking?

Jerry 77-11644

________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21534 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/28/2002
Subject: Re: Step by step instructions for CD Conv?
Paul Yorke's web page http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/
Look under wiring. There is a diagram of how to wire a bridge rectifier
into the motor.

colleenandrob wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Is there any place that shows the conversion to DC step by step.
> I've heard it's not complicated but until I do it the first time I'm
> concerned. Forgive me if this information is available on this group
> but I didn't see it. Any and all info would be helpful. I'm
> converting my AF and I'll save the parts to restore to original. I
> just want to construct a layout right now and many of my engines have
> non-working or pooly performing reverse units.
>
> Thanks for all help.
>
> Rob
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21535 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/28/2002
Subject: Change of Address
I am giving up my yorke@... address.
Please use
s_trains @ yahoo.com
or
Paul @ S-Trains.com

Sorry if you get more than one copy on this note.

=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21536 From: Jim Armstrong Date: 10/28/2002
Subject: Docksider part
I have a 21158 docksider that is missing the lower chassis part (No. 33
in the figure at http://www.hobbysurplus.com/xviews/DocksideHSS.asp ).
It's missing a number of other parts, but I can find a supplier for all
but this one.

Can anyone identify the material and thickness for this part? Also, a
scan of the actual part would be wonderful!

Of course, if someone actually has one, that would be of interest as
well. Thanks - Jim Armstrong
Group: S-Trains Message: 21537 From: joecraig60514 Date: 10/28/2002
Subject: Need Advice RE: Rubber Roadbed
Picked up a load of Johnson repro rubber roadbed a while back. I just
picked up several pieces of original flyer roadbed. Need some advice.

1. The orginal stuff is not brittle but not as soft as the repro (for
the obvious age of it). Is it always best to avoid the original and
use repro or is some of the original still possessing an acceptable
additional life span.

2. What can be used on the original to clean and rejuvenate it. I
thought of armor all or the product for auto v-belts and should any
product be periodically used on the repro to keep it fresh or will it
last more by controlling the environment i.e.- room humitity, etc.

Thanks-Joe
Group: S-Trains Message: 21538 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 10/29/2002
Subject: New Line of Cars
Joe's Train Repair is pleased to announce a new line
of S gauge cars manufactured by Toy Trains
International. These cars consist on ten flatcars
with piggy back trailers (featuring roadnames SP, BN,
B&M, IC, and NH) @ $31.95 each, two bulkhead flatcars
with pipes and lumber @ $26.95 each, and a U.S. Army
37th Division bulkhead flatcar with 2 rocket fuel
containers for $42.95. To view these cars, go to:
http://home.nc.rr.com/joestrainrepair/TTI%20cars.htm

Joe

=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21539 From: Gerry Evans Date: 10/29/2002
Subject: S West
Having just returned yesterday from S West IV and seeing no other posts relative to that congregation, I thought a brief note would be appropriate.

Hats off to Lee Johnson, chief whipping boy, and the three Bay Area clubs who staged S West IV! All events, clinics, displays, and dealer exhibits came off as advertised and promoted. And, the layout tours of two outstanding layouts were further enhanced by very comfortable transportation. Our layout hosts had tasty goodies at both locations, and, I think, everyone had ample opportunity to take in the gigantic proportions and intricacies of both pikes.

I had a great time. Gee, the only thing I could wish for is to have S West V in Laughlin, NV next time with $32 rooms and the $12 all-you-can-eat crab leg, prime rib, and shrimp buffet at Harrah's Casino.

Gerry Evans
In Flagstaff


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21540 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 10/29/2002
Subject: Rubber rejuvenator
"joecraig60514" wrote:
Subject: Need Advice RE: Rubber Roadbed

2. What can be used on the original to clean and rejuvenate it. I
thought of armor all or the product for auto v-belts and should any
product be periodically used on the repro to keep it fresh or will it
last more by controlling the environment i.e.- room humitity, etc.

>>>

Joe, here in my shop we use Varn Super Rubber Rejuvenator on our rubber offset printing press blankets. It is a petroleum-based product (Petroleum Naphtha, among other ingredients). I've never tried it on anything other than printing equipment, but I'll attest that it softens blankets and rollers and seems to give them new life. How about some of you other printers out there? Alan Evans? Any comments?

This or any other rubber rejuvenator can be purchased at your local printing supplies dealer, probably in quantities as small as a pint (we buy it by the gallon). Check the yellow pages for your closest printing supplies house. Hope this helps.

John Eichmann
RMHR
Boise


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21541 From: Rick Evans Date: 10/29/2002
Subject: Re: S West
Gerry Evans said...
**((I had a great time. Gee, the only thing I could wish for is to have S West V in Laughlin, NV next time with $32 rooms and the $12 all-you-can-eat crab leg, prime rib, and shrimp buffet at Harrah's Casino.)))***

I would be there in a heart beat!! Haven't been there since '92!! :-)

Rick.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21542 From: David Dewey Date: 10/29/2002
Subject: Re: S West
Rick,
Hmm, but there's NO BBQ!! ;)
We had a great time at S- West, I even bought an AF part there! The two
layouts were very impressive, incredible at least. I didn't have a crowd at
my seminar/clinic, but was told it was helpful, I know I enjoyed giving it,
in spite of being given a diagnostic question that I couldn't answer (maybe
if I'd had the loco to look at, I could have). The hosts did well, it was a
friendly meet, and no one kicked me out for my LOUD shirt, nor my zany puns.
Linda was asked a few times, "How do you put up with this???"
Howard's Trains had a very impressive display, very large, very diversified
with some special sample pieces that looked great. Details, details,
details--even the rivet counters liked them!
I am back on line also, my old computer is running (it was the monitor)
again, but my new computer is on it's way back to the store (power supply,
video card & memory problems--it should have been in yellow for "Lemon").
Now to get back to trains, and other stuff, including MAYBE moving this
winter--a place with space for a layout--uh, after I finish all the repairs
and upgrades that it needs for SWMBO to approve of the "digs." More on this
in the next few weeks, and I hope I didn't just jinx it by telling y'all.
If ya got 'em run 'em! Um, well unless it's NIB. . . . . . ;-)

S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21543 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 10/29/2002
Subject: reverse unit drums
Hi guys,

Does anyone have AF reverse drums for sale? Is anyone doing repros? I have
a dozen or so drumless reverse units.

Not missing a beat,
Jacques
Group: S-Trains Message: 21544 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 10/29/2002
Subject: a nudder' ting
Sorry for double posting. There were several earlier posts about recent O
gauge people released that were really S size. I think that they were MTH.
Does anyone have the product order numbers for those?

Jacques
Group: S-Trains Message: 21545 From: eric.reis Date: 10/29/2002
Subject: Re: reverse unit drums
Jacques: are you heading over the pass to TCA Sunday in Chehalis? If so,
and I do make it as planned, I have 3 or 4 reverse units you can have. If
one us doesn't go, I'll mail them to you

Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jollivier4@... [mailto:Jollivier4@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 5:28 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] reverse unit drums

Hi guys,

Does anyone have AF reverse drums for sale? Is anyone doing repros? I have
a dozen or so drumless reverse units.

Not missing a beat,
Jacques

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21546 From: Wayne Zebron Date: 10/29/2002
Subject: "walking Brakeman"
Hi,

I need a little help in repairing the 970 car with the brakeman on the top.
I picked up the needed parts at s fest in the Chicago area. Is the post on
the "foot" (the part the man get attached to) on the leading edge or
trailing edge. I need to know before I glue the material to the bottom.
Thanks in advance for any help.

Wayne
Group: S-Trains Message: 21547 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/29/2002
Subject: Help! Wiring late style 2 step reverse units
I have a steamer with the reverse unit on the back of the motor. I had
to replace the brush housing and now I need the wiring diagram for the 2
step reverse. I would normally replace it with a rectifier and run on
DC but this is a nice engine that I want to restore. Anyone have a
diagram? Thanks.
--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21548 From: jahoozdumm Date: 10/29/2002
Subject: Re: "walking Brakeman"
Wayne...

The metal base (foot) that supports the brakeman figure should have
the post on the leading end.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21549 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: 2 step reverse units
Chuck: there is a wiring diagram in the May-June '92 S Gaugian Roundhouse.
Or send me your postal address and I will mail you a copy.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21550 From: David Dewey Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: ACG's story on TV!!!!
Hi all,
This was just posted on the TCA list:

Message: 9
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 02:06:32 -0000
From: "L.Andrew Jugle" <lajugle@...>
Subject: News Flash!!! Set your VCR ----NOW!!

The new 2-hour Christmas movie "The Man Who Saved Christmas" is
slated for December 15, 2002 for 9 to 11 PM EST on CBS. Starring
Jason Alexander as A.C. Gilbert and Ed Asner as AC's father, Frank
Gilbert, the story relates the true events of A.C. going to
Washington, as a spokesman for his newly formed Toy Manufacturers of
America, to reverse the government "ban" on toy sales in "war-torn"
America in 1918. Based on reality, it is a Hollywood version!!!

Also, be sure to pick-up your copy of Forbes Magazine(Nov 11) with
two page praise piece on "The Man Who Changed How Boys and Toys Were
Made" book just released by author Bruce Watson. Many had the chance
for a signed first edition at "York Thursday" in Strasburg.

L. Andrew Jugle, 70-2972, Elmhurst, IL
Group: S-Trains Message: 21554 From: David Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: Joke of the week....
Group: S-Trains Message: 21555 From: Ted Larson Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: Sound Station 312
www.internethobbies.com/internethobbies/mrcsounstat3.html
Does anybody have any experience with this unit at train shows? It
sounds good on a home layout, but is it loud enough to be heard in
typical train show halls? I look at it because it could provide sound
for any engine on a club layout.

Similarly,
http://www.aristocraft.com/catalog/crest/trainengineer/
looks interesting for controlling any engine placed on the controlled
section of track, such as on a club layout at a show; the power to the
track is controlled rather than controlling the power AFTER it arrives
at the engine. Or, might it be better to just install a "standard" DCC
receiver in a box wired between the power supply and the rail, so that
the DCC receiver would control any engine on the controlled section of
track?

(S-trains readers, please cc: me directly)

=====
Ted Larson

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21556 From: Ted Larson Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: club layout electronics
www.internethobbies.com/internethobbies/mrcsounstat3.html
Does anybody have any experience with this unit at train shows? It
sounds good on a home layout, but is it loud enough to be heard in
typical train show halls? I look at it because it could provide sound
for any engine on a club layout.

Similarly,
http://www.aristocraft.com/catalog/crest/trainengineer/
looks interesting for controlling any engine placed on the controlled
section of track, such as on a club layout at a show; the power to the
track is controlled rather than controlling the power AFTER it arrives
at the engine. Or, might it be better to just install a "standard" DCC
receiver in a box wired between the power supply and the rail, so that
the DCC receiver would control any engine on the controlled section of
track?

(S-trains readers, please cc: me directly)

=====
Ted Larson

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! - We Remember
9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21557 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: Block control question
Hi All,

Here's a question that might have a tricky answer:

If using one set of Flyer transformers for train operations and a separate, more powerful transformer for the accessories, would it be better to follow the Gilbert negative ground control block system, or use a positive ground control block system?

-Tim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21558 From: Don Thompson Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: Re: SHS Container leaves LA...Hooray
Re: More SHS Blatant commercialism -
Earlier this week, the container with our new composite hoppers,
2002 Christmas car and the next run of two & three bay PS-2 was
offloaded the "OOCL Britain" onto a container car and is now headed
eastward towards the port of New York. Our shipping agent expect us to
see the cargo next week. I will admit we were worried about the west
coast dock strike/lock-out, but now that does not seem to be a problem
for this shipment.
Don
PS the PRR and LV single composite hoppers are now sold out. We still
have some of the Christmas cars remaining.


-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 21559 From: John G Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: MTH operating flag
MTH recently came out with an operating flag. Since I'm a fan of
operating accessories, I had to buy one for my Flyer layout. It
works like a charm!

The flag pole rotates back and forth slightly which creates a very
realistic waving of the flag. The flag is made of cloth & has the 50
stars & stripes. Cost is about $30.

The following web site showns one:

http://home.att.net/~tommax/gallery/mvc125f.jpg


John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 21560 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: What was the question?
David Dewey said:
>I enjoyed giving my seminar/clinic in spite of being given a diagnostic
>question that I couldn't answer.

I'm amazed Duck! What was the question???

P.S.: We saw you sign on to chat last Sunday, then you vanished into the
ethos. Presumption was your computer died.


Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21561 From: John G Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: Flyer Whistle review
Check this out - A review of the old Flyer whistle in the Lynx train
site:


http://www.thelynx.com/railscan/articles/reviews/afbillboard/


John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 21562 From: Bill Lane Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: Southwind B & O EM-1
Hi All,

Jettie asked that I post that the B & O EM-1 is going to ship from the
builder about 1 week later then he expected because of the shipping backup
on the west coast. Many shipments have been diverted to the air carriers. He
estimates the current shipping date to be the week of Nov. 15th.

Feel free to give him a call at 813-752-1636 for more specific information.

Thanks
Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 21563 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: Re: What was the question?
Chris the Question Dave could not answer was: Why that shirt? Mike S. :)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21564 From: Kelvin White Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: Out of Production SHS Freight Cars for sale
Greetings from across the pond

I have the following Out of Production SHS Freight Cars for sale - all our listed as SOLD OUT on the SHS www site.

#00489 Reefer Lehigh Valley - White #36150 @ $64.00
#00490 Reefer Lehigh Valley - White #36091 @ $64.00

#00015 2 bay PS-2 Covered Hopper - Conrail - Grey # 877351 @ $60.00
#00015 2 bay PS-2 Covered Hopper - Conrail - Grey # 877351 @ $60.00

#00420 3 bay PS-2 Covered Hopper - CB&Q - Black # 85011 @ $60.00
#00275 3 bay PS-2 Covered Hopper - CB&Q - Grey # 85102 @ $60.00
#00402 3 bay PS-2 Covered Hopper - Great Northern - Blue # 71992 @ $60.00

#00340 Flat Car - Great Northern - Red # 60342 @ $60.00
#00172 Flat Car - Illinois Central - Orange # 923641 @ $60.00

#00129 Rebuilt USRA Boxcar - PMKY/NYC # 83891 @ $60.00
#00132 Rebuilt USRA Boxcar - Pennsy # 107752 @ $60.00
#00126 Rebuilt USRA Boxcar - C&NW # 65111 @ $60.00

Re 150% asking price - Please note I paid shipping, import duty @ 7% and sales tax (VAT) @ 17.5% on all of it. I just want to break even, the alternative is for me to scrub the lettering off and treat them as undecs!

The above prices include shipping by slow boat to the USA if you want the freight cars by air - it will cost just a little more.
Please contact me off list if you are interested in buying any of the above. I can take payment with $ checks (I have a US $ bank account).

Thanks

Kelvin White
Oxford, England.

kelvin@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21565 From: robert allen conner Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: Re: Best "S" Prices
Over the past few months I have seen A Chrome santa fe set with
sound.....Both times they were already sold...My question...who has the best
prices ( discount ) on the new "s" stuff....I would like to get a set along
with some other am models and s trains items...Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 21566 From: eric.reis Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: Re: Best "S" Prices
Try EG/RA in Wisconsin That's EG/RA model Railroad Division.


Email Bill Daymo at egramrd@... and have him quote you a price for
whatever American Models or S helper items you want.

He has email, no website, only takes checks but has great discounts from
list and good service. I have been buying through him since I met him at
the 97 NASG meet in Denver.

I am NOT affiliated with him, just highly recommend him.

Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa.

-----Original Message-----
From: robert allen conner [mailto:rcon7@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 7:11 PM
To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Best "S" Prices

Over the past few months I have seen A Chrome santa fe set with
sound.....Both times they were already sold...My question...who has the best
prices ( discount ) on the new "s" stuff....I would like to get a set along
with some other am models and s trains items...Bob


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21567 From: David Dewey Date: 10/30/2002
Subject: Re: What was the question?
Chris,
Presumption was correct, I did finally get back on, but you'd left by
then. Latest diagonosis is a memory problem, AND TOO MUCH memory--Win98
can't handle anymore than 512K, and I have 788K -- well, not anymore!
Testing continues, meanwhile I'm back on my old computer using the new
monitor.
Un-solved problem is a Franklin loco that needs a nudge to get it to run
in reverse. Too many variables to figure that one out, although it could be
slightly out of quarter.
S'
David
Group: S-Trains Message: 21568 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Flag
The flag is made of cloth & has the 50
stars & stripes. Cost is about $30.

Too bad they don't offer a 48 star version for those
of us stuck in the 1950's

jfred


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Group: S-Trains Message: 21569 From: Don Thompson Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: 2002 Christmas Car
Dear list members,
I have had several people contact us regarding images of this years
Christmas car. You can find a jpeg at:
http://www.showcaseline.com/3bayps2_in_stock.html
It is the top image #00972 and the cost is $39.95 plus S/H. We
still have a few left and if all goes well, we will be shipping them
within the next two weeks.
Don


> Dear SHS,

> Please email to me a picture of this years Christmas car.

> Thanks,

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21570 From: Rhett T. George Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Block control question
- Greeting*S* -

Hmmmm. Wonder where Tim finds positive and negative on Flyer transformers.

Cheer*S* Rhett
Group: S-Trains Message: 21571 From: Steve Blancard Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: ACG's story on TV!!!!
>
> The new 2-hour Christmas movie "The Man Who Saved Christmas" is
> slated for December 15, 2002 for 9 to 11 PM EST on CBS. Starring
> Jason Alexander as A.C.


Wow, this is great,our hero finally gets the spotlight! There may
not be a lot of train action but his story is quite facinating. In
this day and age of Olympic gold medalists making their millions off
of media endorsements, he became world famous based on his
accomplishments in the toy business.

I usually think that Christmas comes too soon, this year I can't
wait !

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 21572 From: Rhett T. George Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: What was the question?
- Greeting*S* -

David D noted an un-solved problem with a Franklin loco which needs a nudge
to begin backing up. Here is the usual question from Rhett "Ammeter" George,
with the reverser set to back up, does the loco draw current when voltage is
applied even tho there is no motion? If not, an electrical connection is
completed by nudging it. If it does and if the motor otherwise functions
okay, then likely something mechanical is awry.

Cheer*S*
Rhett "Ammeter" George
Group: S-Trains Message: 21573 From: mlmarmer Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: ACG's story on TV!!!!
I think it would be a great story, but I wonder how it will do, against the
junk on TV, going against it. Many know nothing of A.C. Gilbert.

An awful Kathy Lee Gifford type of holiday crap show could really draw more
viewers and that would be too bad.

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Blancard" <splitdorf@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 10:42 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: ACG's story on TV!!!!


> >
> > The new 2-hour Christmas movie "The Man Who Saved Christmas" is
> > slated for December 15, 2002 for 9 to 11 PM EST on CBS. Starring
> > Jason Alexander as A.C.
>
>
> Wow, this is great,our hero finally gets the spotlight! There may
> not be a lot of train action but his story is quite facinating. In
> this day and age of Olympic gold medalists making their millions off
> of media endorsements, he became world famous based on his
> accomplishments in the toy business.
>
> I usually think that Christmas comes too soon, this year I can't
> wait !
>
> Steve Blancard
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21574 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: what was the question?
Sounds like a bad armature to me. One pole is probably weak, or there is a
weird current leak in the windings. Rewinding or replacement is called
for. This is a backwards example of the "faster in reverse" syndrome.
Always look for this in a 5 digit loco run on a large transformer. They
simply can't take the voltage that a three digit one can. In fact, I am
beginning to suspect that the 5 digit reverse unit wires the brushes and
field in parallel instead of in series. Could this be??? It would explain
why these locos don't tolerate the same voltage as 3 digit models.

You blew it, DD, you could have got all mysterious about the faster in
reverse thing, the properties of electricity (the left hand rule) that
physicists do not understand, etc. But I'm sure you did a lot of good
anyway. They were lucky to have you there.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21575 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: Block control question
Hi,

Forgive me, but on most Flyer transformers, aren't there two terminals, and isn't one marked "base post" and the other marked "7-15 (18 on a 30b) volts"? Wouldn't the one marked "base post" be the negative terminal and the one marked "7-15 volts" be the positive terminal?

Let me simplify the question. Would a vintage Flyer layout operate better on a control block system where the "base post" rail has the fiber pins, or where the "7-15 (18 on 30b) volt" post has the fiber pins? Hint: think accessories.

Thanks,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Rhett T. George
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 10:30 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Block control question


- Greeting*S* -

Hmmmm. Wonder where Tim finds positive and negative on Flyer transformers.

Cheer*S* Rhett

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21576 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: ACG's story on TV!!!!
Who is the "hero" - Jason or AC?
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Blancard
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 10:42 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: ACG's story on TV!!!!


>
> The new 2-hour Christmas movie "The Man Who Saved Christmas" is
> slated for December 15, 2002 for 9 to 11 PM EST on CBS. Starring
> Jason Alexander as A.C.


Wow, this is great,our hero finally gets the spotlight! There may
not be a lot of train action but his story is quite facinating. In
this day and age of Olympic gold medalists making their millions off
of media endorsements, he became world famous based on his
accomplishments in the toy business.

I usually think that Christmas comes too soon, this year I can't
wait !

Steve Blancard


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21577 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: Block control question
Tim,
in AC which the transformers are, the BASE post is a NEUTRAL, rather
than a neg. the 7-18 is always a pos. The base (NEUTRAL) is the point at
which the wave form at the wave base is at 0. If I miswrote this, please
correct me, Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21578 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: Block control question
Tim,
in AC which the transformers are, the BASE post is a NEUTRAL, rather
than a neg. the 7-18 is always a pos. The base (NEUTRAL) is the point at
which the wave form at the wave base is at 0. If I miswrote this, please
correct me, Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21579 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: Block control question
Okel-dokel. I stand corrected on the terminology and physics. Now, what was your answer to the question?

Thanks,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Anormal1@...
To: Timboy@... ; s-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Block control question


Tim,
in AC which the transformers are, the BASE post is a NEUTRAL, rather than a neg. the 7-18 is always a pos. The base (NEUTRAL) is the point at which the wave form at the wave base is at 0. If I miswrote this, please correct me, Mike S.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21580 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: Block control question
Tim,
The answer is that the base post is neutral not NEG. AC has a
positive & neutral, because it is alternating from - to+ & back . it changes
polarity 60 times a second, therefore 60 cycles. D.C. is a constant + & -
. If YOU want to call the BASE post negative go ahead, a lot of people do.
Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21581 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: Block control question
Okay. Thanks. I guess a lot of people (myself included) do refer to the neutral post as negative, and it is technically wrong to do so. But you didn't answer the question about control block systems. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Anormal1@...
To: Timboy@... ; s-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Block control question


Tim,
The answer is that the base post is neutral not NEG. AC has a positive & neutral, because it is alternating from - to+ & back . it changes polarity 60 times a second, therefore 60 cycles. D.C. is a constant + & - . If YOU want to call the BASE post negative go ahead, a lot of people do. Mike S.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21582 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: Block control question
Tim,
I really didn't read most of those posts. I only have room for a 3
ft. test track, so I had little interest in that at this time. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21583 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: base post (was block control question)
Is the base post a true neutral? I think not. What it is is a common
relative to both the variable and fixed voltages. It also gives a common
when multiple transformers are linked, between the various fixed and
variable voltages. It's a nifty system.

In Lionel land, it is referred to as a common ground. Some Lionel
transformers have more than one, depending upon how the transformer is
used.

Whether it is a true ground is another question.

I don't think it is the same as a neutral in home wiring, although it
shares some of the same characteristics. I would like to know for sure one
way or the other.

To use a minus sign for it is totally incorrect.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21584 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: base post (was block control question)
Tom,
As far as a true neutral, I cannot say. I think you would have to
have a polarized plug on the end of you transformer cord. A 3 pronged would
be ideal as the Phasing would not change (AS LONG AS YOUR HOUSE WAS WIRED
CORRECTLY). Also there are two prong plugs that allow for proper phasing.
Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21585 From: theheadliner Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: Need Advice RE: Rubber Roadbed
Joe,

If you want to rejuvenate the old rubber roadbed, go to a press supply house
of a place that sells supplies to printers. Ask for rubber roller
rejuvenator. That is what I used on mine, worked good.

Jerry

joecraig60514 writes:

> Picked up a load of Johnson repro rubber roadbed a while back. I just
> picked up several pieces of original flyer roadbed. Need some advice.
>
> 1. The orginal stuff is not brittle but not as soft as the repro (for
> the obvious age of it). Is it always best to avoid the original and
> use repro or is some of the original still possessing an acceptable
> additional life span.
>
> 2. What can be used on the original to clean and rejuvenate it. I
> thought of armor all or the product for auto v-belts and should any
> product be periodically used on the repro to keep it fresh or will it
> last more by controlling the environment i.e.- room humitity, etc.
>
> Thanks-Joe

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get your free email at http://quickmail.quickhosts.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 21586 From: splitdorf@1bigred.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: ACG's story on TV!!!!
> Who is the "hero" - Jason or AC?


Do you really need to ask?
AC, of course!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21587 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: Block control question
I would retain the base post as the common rail. The action cars like
base on the appropriate rail and 15V at the operating strip. Also it is
easy to carry the base post all around the layout this way so
accessories should only need the 15V carried to them. Base can come
from the nearest Flyer switch. This means 14-18V goes a foot or two
from transformer to button, then a single wire from button to
accessory. For accessories that are merely illuminated you can use a
14-18V bus wire. My layout is large enough that I appreciate being able
to tap into the nearest switch base post and avoid a new base wire all
the way from the controls when I'm 15 or 20 feet away. You will find
that using base a s suggested by Flyer instructions saves you a lot of
wiring headaches.

If you use a Flyer horn or whistle the instructions are very definite
about not having extra wire from the transformer to the track so make
sure you follow them. I haven't looked at them in so long I've forgotten
them.

Tim Brown wrote:
>
> Okay. Thanks. I guess a lot of people (myself included) do refer to the neutral post as negative, and it is technically wrong to do so. But you didn't answer the question about control block systems. Any thoughts on that?
>
> Thanks,
> Tim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Anormal1@...
> To: Timboy@... ; s-trains@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 12:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Block control question
>
> Tim,
> The answer is that the base post is neutral not NEG. AC has a positive & neutral, because it is alternating from - to+ & back . it changes polarity 60 times a second, therefore 60 cycles. D.C. is a constant + & - . If YOU want to call the BASE post negative go ahead, a lot of people do. Mike S.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21588 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: (faster in reverse mill.) was "what was the quest"ion?
More gist for the faster in reverse mill.

In repairing my 21145 I noticed the brushes are worn somewhat
directionally. They have the curvature for the commutator worn just
slightly off center due to (I assume) running forward most of the time.

jarcho@... wrote:
>
> Sounds like a bad armature to me. One pole is probably weak, or there is a
> weird current leak in the windings. Rewinding or replacement is called
> for. This is a backwards example of the "faster in reverse" syndrome.
> Always look for this in a 5 digit loco run on a large transformer. They
> simply can't take the voltage that a three digit one can. In fact, I am
> beginning to suspect that the 5 digit reverse unit wires the brushes and
> field in parallel instead of in series. Could this be??? It would explain
> why these locos don't tolerate the same voltage as 3 digit models.
>
> You blew it, DD, you could have got all mysterious about the faster in
> reverse thing, the properties of electricity (the left hand rule) that
> physicists do not understand, etc. But I'm sure you did a lot of good
> anyway. They were lucky to have you there.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21589 From: knockbill Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: base post
Hi
Tom is correct... the base post on a flyer transformer is the same as
nuetral in house wiring with the excption that it is not grounded....
If the transformers had a 3-wire line side (hi voltage), the 3rd wire
would be connected to the metal case of the transformer.....the low
voltage side is only a coil of wire around a core,, which is
insulated from all parts of the transformer....
John
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 21590 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: ACG's story on TV!!!!
Whew! Glad to hear that! :) :)
----- Original Message -----
From: splitdorf@...
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [S-Trains] Re: ACG's story on TV!!!!



> Who is the "hero" - Jason or AC?


Do you really need to ask?
AC, of course!


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21591 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: AC Gilbert Movie
Why would they have Jason Alexander Play AC. I think I would prefer the Kathy
Lee Crap someone mentioned. CB. I'm Smiling too guys!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21592 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Control blocks
Hi,

Allllrighty then! The creative juices are flowing. :) :) Here is what I've found out in the last couple days experimenting in my basement:

AC Gilbert promoted a neutral post control block system. He designed at least one accessory to work exclusively on that system, Sam The Semaphore Man. The base clip on Sam MUST be connected to neutral for the block to work. Other accessories, such as the mail car can work either way (just reverse the pickup wheels on the mail car and turn the track trip around). However, in a neutral post block control system, we can't wire the base posts of the transformers together - it defeats block control. Also, there is a problem in using a separate transformer to power some accessories, such as the aforementioned mail car. It won't work. The same transformer that supplies power to the control block containing the track trip for the mail car must be used, since the base posts are not wired together in this system. Similarly, any 690 track trip that activates flashers must have it's power supplied by the same transformer supplying power to the block it's on. Any accessory that is isolated from the track will work fine on it's own transformer. There is no problem with an airplane beacon, a billboard whistle, a sawmill or an oil drum loader. A 697 track trip will work just fine powered from it's own transformer as well, provided the accessory it operates has it's neutral post coming back to that separate transformer, not the transformer controlling that block.

Now, in a positive post control block system, the base posts of all the transformers can be wired together. I believe this results in a smoother flow of electrons. A separate transformer for accessories can then be used to power the accessory, except Sam the Semaphore. There may be other accessories that do not lend themselves to this system as well.

Can Sam be rewired or reconfigured to operate on a positive post control block system? I don't think so, because it is mechanically engineered to operate the block off neutral.

I know I've used a lot of words to describe what I have found. Wish I could put it simpler.

Thanks,
Tim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21593 From: Scott Holm Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: S-fest photos
Just posted a few photos of the S-Fest in the photos folder at Yahoo
groups.



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Group: S-Trains Message: 21594 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: base post (was control blocks)
Tim: Gilbert's factory instructions called for the construction of an AC
common rail system.

The instructions show how multiple transformers can be used to power a
large layout using a common rail AND having all the base posts connected
together, with all gaps (and blocks) to be made in the variable voltage
post (non base post) rail except in reverse loops and wyes. I have seen
the base post rail referred to as the common rail, and the other rail
termed the control rail, in non Gilbert books on wiring.

The advantage of the common rail, which extends unbroken throughout the
layout and is connected to the base posts of all track powering transmers,
is that it greatly facilitates the flow of electricity throughout the
layout. It also simplifies wiring , since gaps are cut and blocks created,
in only one rail instead of two.

In Gilbert's base post system, the base post serves as a common ground
between the variable voltage track power circuits and the fixed voltage
accessory circuits, in order to simplify the wiring of 1) action cars and
2) train stopping accessories , of which there were four: the talking
stations, the semaphore, sam the semaphore man, and the cow on the track.
There were three different versions of the talking station and two of the
sam the sem.

The terms you introduced, neutral post system and positive post system, are
inaccurate and confusing. The base post is not a true neutral and it is
not a positive terminal.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21595 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Electricity 101
An awful lot of terms have been tossed around on this list regarding
electrical theory. The only person, so far, to actually hold a defensible
claim on the facts is Tom Jarcho. Everybody else needs to take a book out
of the library on basic electrical principles.

There is no positive and negative post in AC power. If you refer to them
that way, you are wrong, plain and simple. + and - are poles in magnetism
and in DC power. AC does not always have a neutral. 240VAC, as used in
this country, is drawn from two hot legs, no neutral. Power in your house
has a neutral. That is because you have a Single Phase power source with a
derived neutral. The neutral is derived, back at some substation, by taking
a center tap on one of the coils of a delta three phase transformer and
referencing it to each end of the same coil. End to end measures 240VAC.
End to middle: 120VAC. The wires entering your house are the three pieces
of the puzzle, the two ends and the middle. (This is a much simplified
version. In reality, at the substation, the voltage is much higher.
Transformers posted locally in neighborhoods reduce it for consumer use.)

Ground and neutral are not the same. They are, however, bonded together at
the point of entry into your home. After that, they must never make
contact, or you initiate a ground fault. Grounds are wires that are clear
of all voltage and exist only to carry accidental voltages away and cause
the interruption of the circuit in times of emergency. (Short to ground,
pop the breaker and shut off the juice.) That is why cases of metal
appliances are grounded. Neutrals carry unused current back into the system
and have measurable current loads. They cannot be relied on to act as
safety devices. They are simply there to complete the circuit. Do not
refer to neutrals as grounds.

It is not practical to identify the output of a toy train transformer as hot
and neutral, since the neutral to hot circuit of your household wiring has
already been completed in the primary coil of the transformer. The induced
voltage of the secondary could, with an oscilloscope, be referenced to the
line voltage as to phase, but you might be surprised to find that the
variable post is in phase with house neutral. Or not. Fact is, it doesn't
matter, since the transformer serves an isolating function secondary to its
voltage reducing function. You are off the line and into your own, new AC
low voltage circuit. Thus, you may name it as suits you. Currently, there
is no code for low voltage, though the NEC board is developing one as we
speak.

AC Gilbert chose "Base Post" and "Fixed Voltage Post" as well as "Variable
Voltage Post" as a point of practical reference. It takes no genius to see
that the fixed post delivers 17VAC referenced to the Base Post, as does the
Variable Post when wide open. Therefore, the Base Post is considered the
reference point for all hookups. It is the designated neutral of the
S-Gauge Flyer world.

Tims notations about Block Control systems are interesting, but seem to need
another review. All multi-transformer Gilbert systems will tie the Base
Posts together. All block divisions will be made on the variable rail. All
accessories will work on separate transformers that are "phase-tied" at the
Base Post, as long as their control buttons are wired back to a Fixed Post,
(or Variable Post for voltage reduction). I have designed many systems and
I do not see, nor experience the problems he encounters, so I would have to
look over his diagrams and notes. Sometimes, what appears to be an
insurmountable problem can be solved by moving one wire.

AC is AC; like AC Gilbert. If you want DC, go see George Bush. Talk about
yer positives and negatives!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21596 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Block control
Hi,

When I'm right, I like to know it. When I'm wrong, I have to know it. I hate gray areas. I went to Paul's site/bookstore and ordered this book from Amazon: Gilbert American Flyer Instruction Book. I didn't want to consult any old model railroading wiring book laying around. Hopefully, this book will be the bible on layout wiring for American Flyer trains.

At the very least, this discussion thread has served to clear up some terminology for a lot of us: base post, variable voltage post and fixed voltage post. There is no such thing as positive, negative or neutral in Flyer AC transformer wiring terminology.

[BTW, since we are clarifying terminology, insofar as American Flyer is concerned, it is a REVERSE UNIT, not an E-unit (Lionel term).] :) :)

Thanks to all who contributed to this discussion thread!

Tim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21597 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Electrical versions of Sam & base posts
"There were three different versions of the talking station and two of the
sam the sem."

In repairing Sam the Semaphore Men a few years ago I found that there
are 3 different factory versions of this accessory. If I remember they were
single button, single button with lockout eliminator resistor and two button
(also with the resistor). I'll check my notes if anyone is interested.

Also, when I was in audio, I remember folks going around forever on positive
versus negative in AC. There was also a long magazine article on understanding
the neutral. I find that simple things are not easily understood. One
manufacturer
labeled the two audio terminals as "common" and (+/-) to evade the problem.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21598 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: Block control (w/polarity reverse)
Tim, when you look it up, see if you can answer this concern. If I use
DC polarity reversing, (probably not in AC's instructions?) does that
screw up the base rail for an action car or risk a momentary short with
unphased transformers? I find I can run DC power and still operate the
action car from 14-18V AC but need to be on another transformer from the
one powering the engine to avoid a short. On our club modules we
avoided this problem by using a relay to cut track power while the
action car (log dump) was energized using the same transformer. On my
home layout the log car is on a different circuit sharing one leg- the
base rail.

BTW, Tom Jarcho, my compliments on your prior response to this thread,
which was lucid and knowledgeable.

Tim Brown wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> When I'm right, I like to know it. When I'm wrong, I have to know it. I hate gray areas. I went to Paul's site/bookstore and ordered this book from Amazon: Gilbert American Flyer Instruction Book. I didn't want to consult any old model railroading wiring book laying around. Hopefully, this book will be the bible on layout wiring for American Flyer trains.
>
> At the very least, this discussion thread has served to clear up some terminology for a lot of us: base post, variable voltage post and fixed voltage post. There is no such thing as positive, negative or neutral in Flyer AC transformer wiring terminology.
>
> [BTW, since we are clarifying terminology, insofar as American Flyer is concerned, it is a REVERSE UNIT, not an E-unit (Lionel term).] :) :)
>
> Thanks to all who contributed to this discussion thread!
>
> Tim
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21599 From: John G Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: Block control
I'm on "handing candy out" duty tonight for Halloween. It's very
slow since the wind chill in Minneapolis right now is 19 degrees and
most everyone is inside (running their trains I assume!). So here
goes my two cents.

I found this thread very interesting. When I was I kid back in the
50's, I was awed by the complexity of the wiring shown in the Flyer
manual. This is probably one of the reasons I went on to college to
get my Electrical Engineering Degree. I got back into Flyer after a
25 year hiatus.

My first impression of rereading block wiring in the Flyer manual
was "Holy Cow, that's some complex stuff!". No wonder I couldn't
understand it as a kid.

My present layout has two transformers whose base posts are connected
together and tied to the outer rail. One transformer powers
accessories and another (18B) runs two trains. The transfomers were
phased & operate from one terminal strip. I put gaps in the outer
rail to run blocks for Sam the Semaphore man and the Cow on Track.
This is different from one suggestion of not splitting the base post
rail, but it works.

To maintain voltage to the track and accessories, I run a loop of 14
gauge wiring to bring base post, +15, and variable voltage to
various points on the layout to power accessories and the track.

Understanding and troubleshooting the Flyer wiring is both a humbling
and gratifying experience. Even with a understanding of the physics
and my trusty voltmeter, I still get puzzled by problems. But what
could be more fun!

John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 21600 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: electricity 101
Thanks Chris for a totally righteous and most helpful post.

I take issue with only one point in it. I am not convinced that
electricity flows through George Bush.

However, he is MY president and I don't want some a**hole in a cave
somewhere to drop jetliners on him.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21601 From: Roy Inman Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: AC movie
Greetings to all,
In case anyone is interested, there is a web site for "The Man Who Saved
Christmas."
Go to:http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020819/to066_1.html
Production company is Alliance Atlantis, and they are shooting in Toronto,
as are many filmmakers these days.
Their web site is: allianceatlantis.com
Roy Inman
Group: S-Trains Message: 21602 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: York Report
York Report (a wee bit late):

Being wetter than usual for Pennsylvania in mid-October, the weather
conspired to wash out the Wednesday outdoor pre-meets. A new feature for
Wednesdays was the Stout auction in the Valencia ball room. The Flyer S gauge
portion of this auction was held from 6 to 9 PM - not the best of timing -
and, consequently, the auction bidding weakened about mid-way through. Much
of the Flyer was just below collector grade, which should be kept in mind
when viewing the realized prices that Stout will post. The Valencia is
notoriously dark and I'm afraid that some of the buyers might have been in
for a disappointment when they later reviewed their purchases. Some of the
items were of superior grade, collectable, and brought the generally expected
prices. During the second half of the auction, many clean trains (VG+) were
purchased for very reasonable prices by dealers (for resale) and operators.
Some of the most interesting items were smaller pieces of original Gilbert
catalog artwork which sparked some lively bidding and strong prices (ranging
from ~$300 to ~$1100), depending on the piece. I suspect that this auction
will become a regular feature of York, since the PW Lionel portion of the
event on the front end of the auction during the (rainy) afternoon had many
high quality pieces and was very active. While the pre-meet show at the
Holiday Inn West (the "Sheraton") went great guns on Thursday, the one at the
Holiday Inn on Arsenal Road (the "Billy Budd") continues to go down hill -
for reasons more related to mismanagement by the motel and local enforcement
of tax laws than those associated with the toy train market.

A wide selection of vintage Gilbert was available on the tables both during
the Thursday pre-meet and during York itself. Good clean trains were availble
for both the operators and collectors. For example, my friend picked up a
nice 1952 Santa Fe freight set with really pretty PA-Bs for $500. At both
S-Fest on the previous weekend and during York, postwar the Gilbert pricing
appears to be splitting more and more between the high grade collector pieces
and the nice VG+ to E- operator trains. Having the OB is also becoming more
important for the collector end of things. Not many "Oh, Goshes" showed up,
but there was an LN/OB Foxmart whistling bill board that fetched $3500. Some
perceptible softening of the market is occurring, probably related to the mix
bag in the current economy. Dealers who I questioned said that business was
"OK" but not up to the levels of recent memory. Except for most unusual or
highly sought after items, it looks like the vintage S market is currently
taking a bit of a breather - not unexpected given the reasonable growth in
prices over the last four years. Dealers in the highest grade trains are
probably pricing themselves ahead of the current market in many instances.
They do eventually get their price but I've noticed that they carry them
longer over the year to do so (I have been tracking prices at these events
and these have been noted as part of the data to update the TM S Gauge
American Flyer Guide, the most current version of which is to be found in
TrainTracker 4.0). Version 5.0 is due out next year.


At both S-Fest and York, SHS had their new hoppers (with optional coal loads)
on sale and they looked great. Their Santa Fe F7 units for the Super Chief
look, well, super, and I encourage everyone who is interested to bug Don T.
about soon making the proper extruded aluminum passenger cars to go with the
Fs. The K-Line little Big boy has appeared and is reported by K-Line to be
1/58 scale with a fair amount of selective compression (Selective compression
= permanent depression!). Many 0 gaugers are grousing about the size of this
engine. A few are buying this engine to pull 3/16 in scale prewar Flyer O
gauge diecast cars! Although it is fun to think of such things occasionally,
I do not believe that an S gauge version of this engine will be built, given
the nature of the beast. An off-scale piece does not have much chance in the
S market. I reported on the status of potential new Flyer from Lionel in a
previous post last week.

Personally, I had a great time, as always, meeting with friends and chasing
Flyer; and I managed to pick up a few goodies for the home collection.

Bob Bubeck
Group: S-Trains Message: 21603 From: Bruce Papky Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Who is the hero? Jason or ACG?
It'll be a great leap of faith (no pun intended) to imagine Jason
Alexander as a world class pole vaulter!

Bruce.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21604 From: TCS Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: 20% off decal sale
For the month of November only. Where?? www.oddballsdecals.com

---
---
Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals
N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals for prototype models
26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054
Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@...
Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/
Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/
NMRA Member #121756
Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
MPHS web site http://mopac.org/
---
---
Group: S-Trains Message: 21605 From: Tim Brown Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Re: Block control
Hi,

Well, just think what the rest of us are going through! :) :) Part of the problem is trying to resurrect 1950's technology. I've been doing it by trial and error (lots of error), gleaning information from discussion threads on this list and asking questions/attending seminars at the national conventions. There isn't a club in my area. The Flyer components are easy enough to buy, but the instruction booklets usually get neglected. Hopefully, the book I am buying will fill in a lot of gaps.

Thanks,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: John G
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 9:40 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Block control


I'm on "handing candy out" duty tonight for Halloween. It's very
slow since the wind chill in Minneapolis right now is 19 degrees and
most everyone is inside (running their trains I assume!). So here
goes my two cents.

I found this thread very interesting. When I was I kid back in the
50's, I was awed by the complexity of the wiring shown in the Flyer
manual. This is probably one of the reasons I went on to college to
get my Electrical Engineering Degree. I got back into Flyer after a
25 year hiatus.

My first impression of rereading block wiring in the Flyer manual
was "Holy Cow, that's some complex stuff!". No wonder I couldn't
understand it as a kid.

My present layout has two transformers whose base posts are connected
together and tied to the outer rail. One transformer powers
accessories and another (18B) runs two trains. The transfomers were
phased & operate from one terminal strip. I put gaps in the outer
rail to run blocks for Sam the Semaphore man and the Cow on Track.
This is different from one suggestion of not splitting the base post
rail, but it works.

To maintain voltage to the track and accessories, I run a loop of 14
gauge wiring to bring base post, +15, and variable voltage to
various points on the layout to power accessories and the track.

Understanding and troubleshooting the Flyer wiring is both a humbling
and gratifying experience. Even with a understanding of the physics
and my trusty voltmeter, I still get puzzled by problems. But what
could be more fun!

John Gasal




S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21606 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: What was the question?
Hi all,

Have just replaced the fingers on a tender unit and was working on the engine
drivers as well. While testing, I had a problem with getting the engine to
run in reverse and the problem was getting to me. Long story short--found
that one finger was not sufficiently pressing on the drum. Those Franklins
have those Forward/Reverse mechanisms (with a gravity drop weight of some
kind)---but I am betting that a contact point inside that mechanism is the
gremlin? ???? Burned out or weak??? Just a thought as I am not familiar
with that mechanism--before you rip apart the motor.

John R


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21607 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 10/31/2002
Subject: Gilbert wiring instructions
Tim, the book you ordered is very enjoyable, and every Flyer user ought to
have one, but it won't help all that much. Remember, it was written for
children!

A more helpful book is one that includes most of the instruction sheets and
factory service sheets. I believe several different ones have been
published. Mine is from K-line. Hobby Surplus sells sets of factory
service sheets. I have not gotten around to buying this yet and don't know
if it includes instruction sheets too or just service sheets.

Even so, you sort of have to deduce things, such as the common rail system.
They are not usually explicitly stated because they are simplified so.
Lionel's instructions, though better, are also somewhat obscure at the back
of the book, partly from simplification and partly from neglect.

Many books have been published on model rr wiring. My favorite is
Electrical Handbook for Model Railroaders by Paul Mallery; my copy was
published in 1955. However, books like this are only helpful up to a
point.

The reason is that two rail AC is rare. ACG was the only company that used
it much post war. Three rail AC is common -- Lionel, Marklin, and others
used it. Two rail DC is common in all gauges, and most books deal
exclusively with it. But material on 2 rail AC is hard to find. The
unusual and idiosyncratic Flyer switches, with their train stopping
capacity ("2 train oper") also are more or less unique in toy trains.

With the Gilbert track system, all sorts of automatic circuits are easy to
construct, but this was never more than hinted at in ACG instructions.

Therefore, I took it upon myself to write at length (in case you haven't
noticed, I like to write at length) in order to fill the instructional void
about wiring Flyer trains. My Roundhouse columns in S Gaugian magazine
have dealt with many aspects of this problem except using DC, which doesn't
interest me. I have never seen this stuff in print anywhere else. Here is
a list of the relevant issues:

Transformers I May-June '98
Transformers II July/Aug '98
Transformer Roller Gap/Good Wiring Techniques Sept/Oct '98
The Common Rail System Nov/Dec '98
Switches and the Common Rail System I Jan/Feb '99 note: errors in figs 4.5.6.7
Switches and the Common Rail System II Mar/Apr '99 note: errors in
fig 4
The Common Rail System and Action Cars May/June '99 + corrections
for above errors
Fun With AF Switches and Track Trips Mar-Apr '00
Automatic Sidings May/June '00
A Train Holding Reverse Loop Jan/Feb '01
A Switch Protection Circuit Sept/Oct 01

There should be a Roundhouse column on track planning with Flyer switches
in the Jan/Feb '03 issue. This shows how to take advantage of the current
stopping capacity of Flyer switches to plan more interesting operational
possibilities.

I am currently working on two more: a completely protected automatic
block system that permits several trains to run around the same large loop
(the Flyer system only protects part of the loop against collisions), and
possibly an article on wiring large layouts, with examples. If I ever get
the time, I will take out the mistakes and run all this material together
into a book.

The members of this list have been most helpful with information,
suggestions, and corrections. Thanks again, guys.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21608 From: Don Thompson Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: Re: York Report
Dear Bob,
Thank you for the report. We actually had a better than average York, the best
in several years. Like all vendors, we too are always anxious to see how we do at
the end of the day. The halls were more crowded than I think I can remember. I
talked to Linda Webber who coordinated the table assignments and was told they had
record number or requests. After 8 years of trying, we finally were able to get
another table. I really wish I had room to put up a layout. Did you know they are
building a new hall. I am hoping that the dealers (those with tax numbers) are
allowed to move into the new hall.
Also, thank you for the kind words on our two new products. We air freighted in
a few cases of composite hoppers expecting the container to be in a week later, but
we were fooled by the west coast dock strike. I am happy our container is reported
off the boat and on the train.
We will be in Milwaukee next weekend for Train Fest. This is a new venue for us
and they draw 20,000 attendees.
Thanks again,
Don

rbubeck327@... wrote:

> York Report (a wee bit late):
>
> At both S-Fest and York, SHS had their new hoppers (with optional coal loads)
> on sale and they looked great. Their Santa Fe F7 units for the Super Chief
> look, well, super...
>
> Personally, I had a great time, as always, meeting with friends and chasing
> Flyer; and I managed to pick up a few goodies for the home collection.
>
> Bob Bubeck

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 21609 From: Don Thompson Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: Re: Who is the hero? Jason or ACG?
Dear Bruce,
I really enjoyed seeing AC...err Jason in Sienfled. I guess we will find out
how really good an actor he can be when he towards the bar...(pole vaulting term)
Don

Bruce Papky wrote:

> It'll be a great leap of faith (no pun intended) to imagine Jason
> Alexander as a world class pole vaulter!
>
> Bruce.

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 21610 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert wiring instructions
Hi Tom,

Yikes! No wonder everyone is in such a quandary about wiring for a Flyer layout. Every person who takes up the hobby has to re-invent the wheel.

Thanks for your leads on sources. I'll have to get some back issues of the S Gaugian. Perhaps a company such as K Line (I have their service manual - it is excellent, but doesn't explicitly cover the common rail system) could sponsor you for writing a comprehensive book on the subject. If you need more time - QUIT YOUR JOB! :) :)

After spending the last four days rewiring my layout, I'm not too anxious to rip it all out and try again. My base post control block system works well, it just doesn't lend itself to tying the transformers together. I guess I've invented the fixed post common rail system on my little railroad.

Thanks again,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: jarcho@...
To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 12:40 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Gilbert wiring instructions


Tim, the book you ordered is very enjoyable, and every Flyer user ought to
have one, but it won't help all that much. Remember, it was written for
children!

A more helpful book is one that includes most of the instruction sheets and
factory service sheets. I believe several different ones have been
published. Mine is from K-line. Hobby Surplus sells sets of factory
service sheets. I have not gotten around to buying this yet and don't know
if it includes instruction sheets too or just service sheets.

Even so, you sort of have to deduce things, such as the common rail system.
They are not usually explicitly stated because they are simplified so.
Lionel's instructions, though better, are also somewhat obscure at the back
of the book, partly from simplification and partly from neglect.

Many books have been published on model rr wiring. My favorite is
Electrical Handbook for Model Railroaders by Paul Mallery; my copy was
published in 1955. However, books like this are only helpful up to a
point.

The reason is that two rail AC is rare. ACG was the only company that used
it much post war. Three rail AC is common -- Lionel, Marklin, and others
used it. Two rail DC is common in all gauges, and most books deal
exclusively with it. But material on 2 rail AC is hard to find. The
unusual and idiosyncratic Flyer switches, with their train stopping
capacity ("2 train oper") also are more or less unique in toy trains.

With the Gilbert track system, all sorts of automatic circuits are easy to
construct, but this was never more than hinted at in ACG instructions.

Therefore, I took it upon myself to write at length (in case you haven't
noticed, I like to write at length) in order to fill the instructional void
about wiring Flyer trains. My Roundhouse columns in S Gaugian magazine
have dealt with many aspects of this problem except using DC, which doesn't
interest me. I have never seen this stuff in print anywhere else. Here is
a list of the relevant issues:

Transformers I May-June '98
Transformers II July/Aug '98
Transformer Roller Gap/Good Wiring Techniques Sept/Oct '98
The Common Rail System Nov/Dec '98
Switches and the Common Rail System I Jan/Feb '99 note: errors in figs 4.5.6.7
Switches and the Common Rail System II Mar/Apr '99 note: errors in
fig 4
The Common Rail System and Action Cars May/June '99 + corrections
for above errors
Fun With AF Switches and Track Trips Mar-Apr '00
Automatic Sidings May/June '00
A Train Holding Reverse Loop Jan/Feb '01
A Switch Protection Circuit Sept/Oct 01

There should be a Roundhouse column on track planning with Flyer switches
in the Jan/Feb '03 issue. This shows how to take advantage of the current
stopping capacity of Flyer switches to plan more interesting operational
possibilities.

I am currently working on two more: a completely protected automatic
block system that permits several trains to run around the same large loop
(the Flyer system only protects part of the loop against collisions), and
possibly an article on wiring large layouts, with examples. If I ever get
the time, I will take out the mistakes and run all this material together
into a book.

The members of this list have been most helpful with information,
suggestions, and corrections. Thanks again, guys.

Tom Jarcho





S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21611 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: Correction
Ooops. I meant variable post. Here we go again. :) :)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21612 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: Re: York Report
In a message dated 11/1/2002 7:18:48 AM Eastern Standard Time,
robin@... writes:


> Thank you for the report. We actually had a better than average York, the
> best
> in several years. Like all vendors, we too are always anxious to see how
> we do at
> the end of the day. The halls were more crowded than I think I can
> remember.

Don,

Glad to hear it. Maybe what I should have stated more clearly is that it was
the sellers of vintage Gilbert who had an "OK, but not record-setting" York.
Evidently, there is a very high demand for the new trains (such as SHS) from
those who want to operate new S gauge. Attendance this York was very high, I
believe, but not an all time record,

Again, I'm very glad to hear of the excellent customer support at York!

Bob Bubeck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21613 From: Jerry Riechert Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1632
Are we able to get reprints of your columns?

> Message: 13
> Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 00:40:44 -0500
> From: jarcho@...
> Subject: Gilbert wiring instructions
>
> Therefore, I took it upon myself to write at length (in case you haven't
> noticed, I like to write at length) in order to fill the instructional
void
> about wiring Flyer trains. My Roundhouse columns in S Gaugian magazine
> have dealt with many aspects of this problem except using DC, which
doesn't
> interest me. I have never seen this stuff in print anywhere else. Here
is
> a list of the relevant issues:
>
> Transformers I May-June '98
> Transformers II July/Aug '98
> Transformer Roller Gap/Good Wiring Techniques Sept/Oct '98
> The Common Rail System Nov/Dec '98
> Switches and the Common Rail System I Jan/Feb '99 note: errors in figs
4.5.6.7
> Switches and the Common Rail System II Mar/Apr '99 note: errors
in
> fig 4
> The Common Rail System and Action Cars May/June '99 + corrections
> for above errors
> Fun With AF Switches and Track Trips Mar-Apr '00
> Automatic Sidings May/June '00
> A Train Holding Reverse Loop Jan/Feb '01
> A Switch Protection Circuit Sept/Oct 01
>
> There should be a Roundhouse column on track planning with Flyer switches
> in the Jan/Feb '03 issue. This shows how to take advantage of the current
> stopping capacity of Flyer switches to plan more interesting operational
> possibilities.
>
> I am currently working on two more: a completely protected automatic
> block system that permits several trains to run around the same large loop
> (the Flyer system only protects part of the loop against collisions), and
> possibly an article on wiring large layouts, with examples. If I ever get
> the time, I will take out the mistakes and run all this material together
> into a book.
>
> The members of this list have been most helpful with information,
> suggestions, and corrections. Thanks again, guys.
>
> Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21614 From: Don Thompson Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: Re: Layout photos
Just received e-mail from David Lull of DSL shops. He had added
some scenery to his layout. You can view too at:

http://www.dslshops.com/layout6.htm

Don


-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 21615 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, November 3, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page http://s-scale.org/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21616 From: Bill Lane Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: S Scale J-1
Hi All,

Today was a very good day because I received my new S Scale J-1 from River
Raisin Models. http://riverraisinmodels.com All I can say is it is simply
AWESOME! http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/S_Scale_J-1.jpg This is a
Key and Challenger Models J-1 on steroids. It is a man's locomotive that
makes my M-1 look like a mere toy. Jim and Dan raise the quality and detail
level with every project. They did not miss anything. It is a masterpiece on
wheels in 1/64th.

There are 3 different numbers that are factory painted, and unpainted as
shown. I am sure they would welcome any inquires you have. They also did the
C & O T-1 if you must have a matched set.

Thanks
Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 21617 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1632
At 04:37 PM 11/1/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>There is no positive and negative post in AC power. If you refer to them
>that way, you are wrong, plain and simple. + and - are poles in magnetism
>and in DC power.


I thought that poles in magnetism were "north" and "south". --- Nick
Group: S-Trains Message: 21618 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: Re: AC movie
Hi,

I imagine a lot of us will be anxiously awaiting this presentation. However, we prob'ly shouldn't expect to see anything about American Flyer toy trains. If I read the news article correctly, the setting for this story is way before that era got going, but pretty well into the Erector set era. Also, let's not forget that this is a made-for-TV special. It might be romanticized and perhaps a lot of liberties taken. They might stray far from the facts. We may be very disappointed in some aspects. I'm not concerned about Jason Alexander playing the part of AC. He's an actor. I doubt we'll see any of the boob he played in Seinfeld. Let's all hope for a wonderfully entertaining production and hopefully be satisfied on some level. Don't forget to set that VHS!

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Roy Inman
To: S-trains
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 9:49 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] AC movie


Greetings to all,
In case anyone is interested, there is a web site for "The Man Who Saved
Christmas."
Go to:http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020819/to066_1.html
Production company is Alliance Atlantis, and they are shooting in Toronto,
as are many filmmakers these days.
Their web site is: allianceatlantis.com
Roy Inman


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21619 From: John Foley Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] S Scale J-1
Hi Bill
Are you coming to the Allentown train show?
If you are why don't you bring that great looking
steamer. I have 4 tables, plenty of room. In fact
you could also display some of the Pennsy S
Models products.
John Foley



At 08:09 PM 11/1/02 -0500, Bill Lane wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>Today was a very good day because I received my new S Scale J-1 from River
>Raisin Models. http://riverraisinmodels.com All I can say is it is simply
>AWESOME! http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/S_Scale_J-1.jpg This is a
>Key and Challenger Models J-1 on steroids. It is a man's locomotive that
>makes my M-1 look like a mere toy. Jim and Dan raise the quality and detail
>level with every project. They did not miss anything. It is a masterpiece on
>wheels in 1/64th.
>
>There are 3 different numbers that are factory painted, and unpainted as
>shown. I am sure they would welcome any inquires you have. They also did the
>C & O T-1 if you must have a matched set.
>
>Thanks
>Bill
>
>
>To see or post Photos visit
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
>or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
>To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21620 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1632
Does that make EAST and WEST.... "BI-POLAR" ? Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick and Becky Colleran" <colleran@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1632


> At 04:37 PM 11/1/2002 +0000, you wrote:
> >There is no positive and negative post in AC power. If you refer to them
> >that way, you are wrong, plain and simple. + and - are poles in
magnetism
> >and in DC power.
>
>
> I thought that poles in magnetism were "north" and "south". --- Nick
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21621 From: Gary Chidester Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: TM Price Guide
Does anyone know if or when a new price guide from TM will be offered for
American Flyer and S-Gauge? It's been several years since the last one was
printed and I have little confidence in the Greenburg edition.

Thanks,

g
Group: S-Trains Message: 21622 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: New American Flyer Discussion on OGR forum
There is a new American Flyer Discussion on the OGR forum at:

http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=63160042&f=57660482&m=2426088551


Carl
Group: S-Trains Message: 21623 From: Dayna Warner Date: 11/1/2002
Subject: New Release
The gnomes have been busy around the Trainstuff LLC workshop. New in time for Christmas for all you S scale modelers is the "Arther Arms". It can be seen at
http://www.trainstuffllc.com/public_html/structures_s_scale.htm
The following link shows it beside the Siegel Building which you guys have made a great success.
http://www.trainstuffllc.com/public_html/new_releases.htm

Dayna Warner CEO
Trainstuff LLC
www.trainstuffllc.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21624 From: Ted Larson Date: 11/2/2002
Subject: critters
Critters are cool!
There are several industrial switchers sold as HO scale, which appear
greatly oversize for HO, they are almost as tall as an F unit, they
appear to be much closer to S scale.

At
www.trainweb.org/mhrr/ho-s-o/ho-s-o-rolling.html
scroll down to Industrial Locomotives, Whitcomb and Plymouth, to see
photos of "HO" critters alongside an S scale F unit.

Ted Larson
http://vil.nai.com/vil/stinger/ Use this virus
remover to see if a virus has infected your anti-virus software

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS02-058.asp MS
patch
http://www.pcnineoneone.com/howto/cleandrive1.html
Clean your hard drive

________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21625 From: mlmarmer Date: 11/2/2002
Subject: Re: TM Price Guide
G,

In the TM Video catalog, I received this week, is being listed as a
closeout. And yes, those values in that book are from the year 2000, which
makes it very out of date.

At least Greenberg, puts out a new guide each year, whether it has value
changes or not.

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Chidester" <GChidester@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 10:14 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] TM Price Guide


> Does anyone know if or when a new price guide from TM will be offered for
> American Flyer and S-Gauge? It's been several years since the last one
was
> printed and I have little confidence in the Greenburg edition.
>
> Thanks,
>
> g
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21626 From: Clay Date: 11/2/2002
Subject: Re: TM Price Guide
Hi Gary:

TM tells me the start of the new year on the AF Guides...

Clay

Lone Star Trains
San Antonio, TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Chidester" <GChidester@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 8:14 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] TM Price Guide


> Does anyone know if or when a new price guide from TM will be offered for
> American Flyer and S-Gauge? It's been several years since the last one
was
> printed and I have little confidence in the Greenburg edition.
>
> Thanks,
>
> g
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21627 From: Steve Blancard Date: 11/2/2002
Subject: Re: critters
Speaking for critters. I'm just finishing up a Putt Trains critter. I still need to
add a few details but I put a photo in the files section here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Putt%20Trains%20Critter.JPG

For under $75 you can't beat it.


Putt's site is here:

http://www.putttrains.com/09/PUTT%20TRAINS/engines%20and%20trolleys.htm


Steve Blancard


Ted Larson wrote:

> Critters are cool!
> There are several industrial switchers sold as HO scale, which appear
> greatly oversize for HO, they are almost as tall as an F unit, they
> appear to be much closer to S scale.
>
> At
> www.trainweb.org/mhrr/ho-s-o/ho-s-o-rolling.html
> scroll down to Industrial Locomotives, Whitcomb and Plymouth, to see
> photos of "HO" critters alongside an S scale F unit.
>
> Ted Larson
> http://vil.nai.com/vil/stinger/ Use this virus
> remover to see if a virus has infected your anti-virus software
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS02-058.asp MS
> patch
> http://www.pcnineoneone.com/howto/cleandrive1.html
> Clean your hard drive
>
> ________________________________________________________________
>
> Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
>
> Only $9.95 per month!
>
> Visit www.juno.com
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21628 From: Dayna Warner Date: 11/2/2002
Subject: Next new release coming shortly
I have all the gnomes working feverously. The masters are done for the prototype CN Station that one of you were nice enough to send drawings of. This is more on the craftsman type kit than most of our other structures but still assembles pretty easily. Should be released in about two weeks.
I have another gnome down in the cave working on the next structure in the downtown series. It has a beautiful cast iron facade. This one will be released in three different versions. Two corner versions a left and a right with a facade on two sides and a middle of the block version that will fit in with Arther Arms and the Siegel Building. So those that have that empty corner lot on their layout and are looking for something to put on it this one should be ready (hopefully) by the end of the month. As with all our structures I won't officially release one until I have assembled one myself to assure that the parts fit.
Dayna Warner CEO
Trainstuff LLC
www.trainstuffllc.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21629 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 11/2/2002
Subject: S- Video Volume VI
We are ready to accept orders for Volume, VI in the "S-Gauge Model
Railroading" series. It has coverage of the 2002 NASG convention and layout
tours courtesy of Paul Yorke and Glenn Ritter. It will also feature some more
of the ongoing "Layout Construction" tips. The price is still $14 ppd.

We took 10 copies each of the first five Volumes to S-West and only sold a
disappointing two copies of Vol. V. Therefore we are offering 5 volume sets
for $60 ppd. If you missed out on any of the first five here's a chance to
get them at a bargain price. They would make a nice Christmas present for an
S-Gauger as well.

Regards to all...Steve & Sam....S-'n-S Trains...Boise, Idaho


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21630 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/3/2002
Subject: More Flyer Books
I just added a couple new books to my S-Trains
Bookstore. It is also located on my new server.
If you would like to visit go to....
http://PaulYorke.com/booklist2.htm

=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21631 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 11/3/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, November 3, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page http://s-scale.org/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21632 From: David Date: 11/3/2002
Subject: Re: TM Price Guide
2003 is the next updated issue for the AF guide. Greenbergs is
horrible. They can print it every year or twice a year, and if an
abundance of the data is inaccurate its doesn't matter how often they
print it.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21633 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/3/2002
Subject: Re: TM Price Guide
**((2003 is the next updated issue for the AF guide. Greenbergs is
horrible. They can print it every year or twice a year, and if an
abundance of the data is inaccurate its doesn't matter how often they
print it.))**

I believe I have commented on this before, and never received much response.
I am no way connected with Greenberg, and I am not defending them, but..
I have the larger guide (with all the pics),...I also have the TM book,...what is sooooo wrong with their {Greenberg's}
prices and info?? I always hear Greenberg being knocked, but when I ask, I never get much back in return to re-inforce
their opinons! What am I missing??

Thanks!!
Rick.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21634 From: Gary Chidester Date: 11/3/2002
Subject: Re: TM Price Guide
I'm afraid at this point is merely anecdotal and without a little evidence I
can't back it up, but I believe there are many prices in the Greenburg
version that have gone down over the past year (1999-2000 specifically). I
have not noticed ANY prices of Am. Flyer actually going down. I watch a lot
of e-Bay auctions and don't make it to very many shows, so my experience can
be challenged without contention. Just a gut feeling that prices should not
be going down in a price guide when prices are escalating every where else.

gary


On 11/3/02 8:27 PM, "Rick Evans" <comic@...> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> **((2003 is the next updated issue for the AF guide. Greenbergs is
> horrible. They can print it every year or twice a year, and if an
> abundance of the data is inaccurate its doesn't matter how often they
> print it.))**
>
> I believe I have commented on this before, and never received much response.
> I am no way connected with Greenberg, and I am not defending them, but..
> I have the larger guide (with all the pics),...I also have the TM book,...what
> is sooooo wrong with their {Greenberg's}
> prices and info?? I always hear Greenberg being knocked, but when I ask, I
> never get much back in return to re-inforce
> their opinons! What am I missing??
>
> Thanks!!
> Rick.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21635 From: David Date: 11/4/2002
Subject: Re: TM Price Guide
> I believe I have commented on this before, and never received
much response.
> I am no way connected with Greenberg, and I am not defending
them, but..
> I have the larger guide (with all the pics),...I also have the TM
book,...what is sooooo wrong with their {Greenberg's}
> prices and info?? I always hear Greenberg being knocked, but when
I ask, I never get much back in return to re-inforce
> their opinons! What am I missing??
>
> Thanks!!
> Rick.
>

1.) Its well known they are missing several easy variations on
several items. Also some hard and rare variations they never listed
at all. I didn't know what I was missing before I went to TM. I never
realized how many rare items I passed at every show because
Greenbergs simply didn't list them. Doing a quick comparison between
the two guides, Greenberg vs TM you will find them fairly easily. I
still have Greenbergs guides that are missing items that I wrote to
them about years ago. This to me, and I would think any serious
collector, is very important. Knowledge is power, and Greenbergs
dropped the ball on this one.

2.)The larger Greenbergs books with the photos are nice, but they are
getting old because they keep using the same old photo's, and the
desctiptions were nausiatingly repetative. The cost is also getting
prohibitive as they've split the book up into volumes now which would
further increases my overall cost. I have an older Greenbergs
hardback from the late 80's, and that is all I need for photo
reference to see what load may have come on a car or to hopefully
glean a bit of information about an item. But getting back to
unreliable data, I've found that data even unreliable in some cases
as they've pictured items incorrectly, or pictured incomplete items,
or they've given too vauge a description, or an incorrect description
to be of any use, especially to a novice. TM has photos of rarer and
more sought after items in their pocket guide, and that seems to be
of more help than the inaccuracies of more items in Greenbergs.

2.) I've rarely ever seen anything at a show outside of some really
common items selling for Greenbergs prices, or even close. Typically,
TM is closer to actual value received by a seller or paid by a buyer
which ever way you want to look at it. In short, if I could get half
of what Greenbergs lists at Greenbergs guide prices I'd be a really
happy camper. One example was for years they had items like the
752/752A Coal Loader listed at $180 give or take a few bucks as they
fluxuated a little, and I've never seen one for under the $290 range
unless it was a rust glob. Typically at the time decent EX 752's were
priced at around $500. In a nutshell, their guide values are not
realistic in the real world, and therefore not helpful.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21636 From: mlmarmer Date: 11/4/2002
Subject: Re: TM Price Guide
Rick, David and all,

One variation that is not in the last Greenberg price guide I own, is item
number 24225, the Santa Fe hopper, unpainted. Even a well known seller of
AF on Ebay, didn't know about this version, when I learned about it at York,
this past April and I told him about it. He was very happy, because he had
a set with this hopper, and the set is a common set. The value for that set
just increased greatly since, his set has this variation in it, that
Greenberg doesn't point out.

My only disappointment with the TM book, is that it isn't updated each year,
as most serious collectables are. I.E., coins, stamps, etc.

At least the Greenberg guide was updated each year, basically with a new
cover, as prices haven't changed for many items in that guide, as the cost
of living goes up each year. I guess that is the reason for the increase in
the price of that guide, as the publisher had increase cost for his paper,
ink, shipping cost, payroll, (yearly raises to the staff, maybe) etc. Of
course, Bruce Greenberg is no longer involved with the Greenberg books, so
maybe he would of not let this happen to his AF guide. I don't know.

I am looking forward to getting a 2003 copy of the TM AF guidebook.

Thanks David for letting us know what was going on with it.

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD
----- Original Message -----
From: "David" <Dave0616@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 8:27 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: TM Price Guide


> > I believe I have commented on this before, and never received
> much response.
> > I am no way connected with Greenberg, and I am not defending
> them, but..
> > I have the larger guide (with all the pics),...I also have the TM
> book,...what is sooooo wrong with their {Greenberg's}
> > prices and info?? I always hear Greenberg being knocked, but when
> I ask, I never get much back in return to re-inforce
> > their opinons! What am I missing??
> >
> > Thanks!!
> > Rick.
> >
>
> 1.) Its well known they are missing several easy variations on
> several items. Also some hard and rare variations they never listed
> at all. I didn't know what I was missing before I went to TM. I never
> realized how many rare items I passed at every show because
> Greenbergs simply didn't list them. Doing a quick comparison between
> the two guides, Greenberg vs TM you will find them fairly easily. I
> still have Greenbergs guides that are missing items that I wrote to
> them about years ago. This to me, and I would think any serious
> collector, is very important. Knowledge is power, and Greenbergs
> dropped the ball on this one.
>
> 2.)The larger Greenbergs books with the photos are nice, but they are
> getting old because they keep using the same old photo's, and the
> desctiptions were nausiatingly repetative. The cost is also getting
> prohibitive as they've split the book up into volumes now which would
> further increases my overall cost. I have an older Greenbergs
> hardback from the late 80's, and that is all I need for photo
> reference to see what load may have come on a car or to hopefully
> glean a bit of information about an item. But getting back to
> unreliable data, I've found that data even unreliable in some cases
> as they've pictured items incorrectly, or pictured incomplete items,
> or they've given too vauge a description, or an incorrect description
> to be of any use, especially to a novice. TM has photos of rarer and
> more sought after items in their pocket guide, and that seems to be
> of more help than the inaccuracies of more items in Greenbergs.
>
> 2.) I've rarely ever seen anything at a show outside of some really
> common items selling for Greenbergs prices, or even close. Typically,
> TM is closer to actual value received by a seller or paid by a buyer
> which ever way you want to look at it. In short, if I could get half
> of what Greenbergs lists at Greenbergs guide prices I'd be a really
> happy camper. One example was for years they had items like the
> 752/752A Coal Loader listed at $180 give or take a few bucks as they
> fluxuated a little, and I've never seen one for under the $290 range
> unless it was a rust glob. Typically at the time decent EX 752's were
> priced at around $500. In a nutshell, their guide values are not
> realistic in the real world, and therefore not helpful.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21637 From: roberte613@aol.com Date: 11/4/2002
Subject: American Models 4-6-2 Wheel Install Help
OK. I put it off after reading some poorly written instructions that appeared
to come from a 60's mimeograph machine, but now I need to install the new
"gription" wheels on this steamer (Christmas layout under construction). I
figure most of you who own this have probably already done so (I'm always
late). Can anyone give me a good step-by-step? What to look out for? What
common screw-ups I'm likely to make and how to fix them?

Hate to mess this engine up, but can't deal with all the slipping on last
year's modest layout grades.

Thanks in advance.

Robert Ellis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21638 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/4/2002
Subject: TM vs. Greenberg.....
I haven't really compared much,...but I have found items of mine, are listed at a higher
value in TM's book, over the Greenberg book.
I must say I do like the detailed descriptions/pictures, of the larger GB book,... the TM and GB pocket guides are great
for a quick price check at a show or where ever. To me, I have found more variations, or descriptions of,..in the GB book,
compared to the TM pocket guide. Seems certain descriptions were vague in the TM book to me,....course it is designed
for QUICK reference, much like the pocket guide of GB.
And the bottom line is,....they are JUST a guide!!

Rick.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21639 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/4/2002
Subject: Re: TM vs. Greenberg.....
Yes, I think they are meant to be used as a guide. However, my experience had been that to a lot of people, they are the bible on Flyer prices. Moreover, while the price listed is for excellent, a lot of people: 1) don't seem to understand that; and 2) are too generous with their grading of excellent. I've seen lots of very good pieces "graded" as excellent. Funny, tho', that It's real hard to find truly excellent pieces graded less. Oh well, isn't this all what makes it so much fun?

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Evans
To: S-Trains
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 2:10 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] TM vs. Greenberg.....


I haven't really compared much,...but I have found items of mine, are listed at a higher
value in TM's book, over the Greenberg book.
I must say I do like the detailed descriptions/pictures, of the larger GB book,... the TM and GB pocket guides are great
for a quick price check at a show or where ever. To me, I have found more variations, or descriptions of,..in the GB book,
compared to the TM pocket guide. Seems certain descriptions were vague in the TM book to me,....course it is designed
for QUICK reference, much like the pocket guide of GB.
And the bottom line is,....they are JUST a guide!!

Rick.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21640 From: hgetrain Date: 11/4/2002
Subject: Re: American Models 4-6-2 Wheel Install Help
-
It has been a while since I installed my wheels so I am not going to
give you a step-by-step precedure but I will give you some pointers.

1. Place the gription wheels on the rear not the front as AM
instructed. I tried the front but there was too much slippage for the
loads/grades I wanted to pull.

2. Make sure the siderods on one side are lined up so that they are
in a straight line with the axles of the three wheel sets. The center
lines of the rod screw holes and axles should be in a straight line
when viewed from the side. Make sure you do not disturb this
alignment.

3. Remove the old wheel set and carefully install the gription wheel
set so that the alignment of the rod screw holes and axles is
maintained.

This is really an easy change, just work carefully. I have gone thru
the procedure three times without any problems. I am sure there are
other ways of doing this, but what I described worked for me. Others
may be able to give you more info on the various steps to take.

Good luck,

Harry Eberhardt




-- In S-Trains@y..., roberte613@a... wrote:
> OK. I put it off after reading some poorly written instructions
that appeared
> to come from a 60's mimeograph machine, but now I need to install
the new
> "gription" wheels on this steamer (Christmas layout under
construction). I
> figure most of you who own this have probably already done so (I'm
always
> late). Can anyone give me a good step-by-step? What to look out
for? What
> common screw-ups I'm likely to make and how to fix them?
>
> Hate to mess this engine up, but can't deal with all the slipping
on last
> year's modest layout grades.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Robert Ellis
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21641 From: eric.reis Date: 11/4/2002
Subject: disconnect reconnect test
I guess I was the test subject this time as Yahoo groups decided to
disconnect me yesterday. Something about my email getting bounced but my
other (non-yahoogroups) email came in fine.

Anybody else get this lately.

Turning it back on seems to have worked.

Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21642 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/4/2002
Subject: Re: TM Price Guide
Dear valued readers:

To help clarify, TM Books is tentatively slating a follow-on updated printed
edition of the TM AF guide for the fall of 2003. There have been continuing
updates, additions, price changes in the American Flyer file of TrainTracker
4.0 and the upcoming 5.0 version. In the meantime, one attribute of the new
5.0 version is that you will be able to print out pages, and hence, create
your own paper-based version, if you like.

Thanks for your support.

Bob Bubeck
Group: S-Trains Message: 21643 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/4/2002
Subject: Re: American Models 4-6-2 Wheel Install Help
The only tricky part I encountered was rolling the wheel set into
position around the gear so the quartering comes out right. Removing the
bottom plate is straightforward. Keep the unaffected wheels in their
current gear mesh without disturbing their quartering. Then make sure
the added wheels end up quartered to match when in mesh with the gears.
Took me a few tries to get it right. Not difficult- just a trial and
error process.
It helps if you use a stand that holds your loco upside down on the
bench. Can be a simple v shaped trough formed by 2 boards and a cloth
or foam liner.

roberte613@... wrote:
>
> OK. I put it off after reading some poorly written instructions that appeared
> to come from a 60's mimeograph machine, but now I need to install the new
> "gription" wheels on this steamer (Christmas layout under construction). I
> figure most of you who own this have probably already done so (I'm always
> late). Can anyone give me a good step-by-step? What to look out for? What
> common screw-ups I'm likely to make and how to fix them?
>
> Hate to mess this engine up, but can't deal with all the slipping on last
> year's modest layout grades.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Robert Ellis
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21644 From: Alex Sibbald Date: 11/4/2002
Subject: ebay cancelation
Hi all,
I just had another Ebay auction cancelled at the last second.
Apparently the sellers unanounced reserve wasn't met so he cancelled.
Ebay is not willing to even report to us how many auctions have been
cancelled by a seller in the feedback page. They are paid by the sellers
and not the buyers. Here is their message.

Dear eBay Community Member,

The bid that you entered for the item
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1782609147
has been cancelled.

You can view the reason provided for the cancellation by selecting the
(bid history) link from the individual item page.

Regards,
eBay

I keep a list of these scumbags on my computer and I won't bid again on
anything they are selling, no matter what.
Innotron
Group: S-Trains Message: 21645 From: David Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: ebay cancelation
This is the newest and latest sellers rip off trend. Its rampant in
the coin collecting sector as well. The sellers list with a lowball
starting bid with no reserve which hits them with a absolute minimal
charge for listing the item, and then see if the item takes off. If
not they cancel and eat the .35 cent charge which is nothing. Keep
filing complaints with e-bay, and making a list, thats what I do too.
Maybe some day e-bay will realize that, yeah they got .35 cents
listing fee, but are getting ripped off for their end of auction fee,
and thats a loss of revenue. Thats how I tell them in my complaints.
I also mention that if they are going to make sure WE know we are
entering into a BINDING contract by bidding, that the seller should
also be bound, or its all just a big pathetic joke.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21646 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Gilbert special
As time draws nearer for the AC Gilbert special, we might want to watch for Jason Alexander to appear on David Letterman promoting the show.

-Tim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21647 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Ebay ethics
It IS frustrating when either sellers or buyers play games. Sometimes there is a legitimate reason for stopping an auction. I had to do it a couple months ago when I damaged an item midway through the auction. What else was I to do? I listed the reason why and described the damage to the item with my apologies. I learned a lesson: after the item is listed, quit playing with it! I now stow listed items in a safe place.

-Tim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21648 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: disconnect reconnect test - YUP!
This happened to me. Between Oct 24 and Oct 30, I got no mail from any
of my Yahoo Message lists. On Oct 30 I got an email from Yahoo saying my
account had been disabled and I needed to click on a link to reactivate
it. I really dislike Yahoo!

eric.reis wrote:

>I guess I was the test subject this time as Yahoo groups decided to
>disconnect me yesterday. Something about my email getting bounced but my
>other (non-yahoogroups) email came in fine.
>
>Anybody else get this lately.
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21649 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: E-Bay Cancellation
Alex and Dave make some good points about E-Bay sellers being contractually
bound to sell an item, in the same moral sense that buyers who bid are bound
to complete the deal, however, they are not legally bound. This is a
loophole in basic E-Bay TOS and is currently acceptable.

As to the low-ball starting price, I don't think that $9.95 is a bad start
for that 651 baggage car, but $16 as top bid was really low. Perhaps this
seller will relist with a reserve, but then, people complain about reserve
auctions too.

If you are looking for a bargain, you might just scoop up something on the
cheap. Hell, I sold a spinning reel for one dollar. Nobody upped the
starting bid. I wasn't happy about that. A good deal is one in which
everybody walks away happy. The seller realizes a decent return, the buyer
perceives a decent bargain. If a seller refuses at the last minute to go
through with a money losing sale, I would be reticent to call him a
"scumbag". Analyze your anger. It may come from being frustrated at
grabbing a piece well below it's value.

Sometimes, the widow with the attic full of trains wises up that it may all
be worth more than $100. There's no reason to get mad at her. Just say "Oh
well!" :->

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21650 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: eBay Cancellation
I found it interesting that this seller cancelled several auctions at
the same time. All had starting prices at $9.95 and some had bids
over $60. The guy sells a lot of AF and currently has over 65 items
listed and has a boatload of good feedback, so I don't think he's a
bad actor. There were also a couple of hours left to go on these
auctions and anyone familiar with eBay knows the bids increase
dramatically in the last few minutes. If I checked the going prices
on my auctions two hours before they closed I'd probably cancel them
all! If not for the snipers I'd never turn a profit!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21651 From: Roy Plotnick Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: S-fest; Uncataloged set
1. I want to thank everyone who responded to my request for feedback on the
S-fest. I have summarized your responses and forwarded them to the organizers.

2. I picked up the following set this weekend at an antiques show in Ann
Arbor, MI. Although similar to sets listed in Robert Tufts book, it seems
to be an unlisted variant:

5500-T on end of box, 2H347 stamped on top.
Locomotive: 308. Rolling stock:801,803,806
Acc: 1 1/2 transformer, 706

12 curve, 2 straight

All paper present, including stamped engine wrapper, box a bit worn.
Does anyone know this one? How do I value it?
Thanks.
-Roy

Roy E. Plotnick
Professor
Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences
University of Illinois at Chicago
845 W. Taylor St.
Chicago, IL 60607
plotnick@...
office phone: 312-996-2111 fax: 312-413-2279
lab phone: 312-355-1342
web page: http://www.uic.edu/~plotnick/plotnick.htm
"The scientific celebrities, forgetting their molluscs and
glacial periods, gossiped about art, while devoting themselves to
oysters and ices with characteristic energy.." -Little Women, Louisa May
Alcott
Group: S-Trains Message: 21652 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: Cancelling auctions and a new site
I don't know the full story...But I have a note in my AUCTIONS that I
reserve the right to cancel it if I am not happy with the prices....I have
sold many things at less than 1/4 of their value....I will now cancel an
auction if I have a 1.00 bid on a 100.00 item if in the last hour nothing
has happened for the 7 days it has run....When I bid, I bid early, and for
what I am willing to pay.....THATS THE FAIR WAY...I have on occasions, for
fun waited to the last few minutes to play games with snipers.....seeing how
much I can bid without getting the item.....Try that game....its a
RUSH....and yes I have gotten the item A couple of times....but in the long
run I am ahead.....Bid early...Bid fair.....I am also starting to bid on A
new site called BIDWAY....( the whoo didn't do anything for me ) On this one
you can make money....Go to my page and look at it
http://rcon7.myoutlets.com ...If you like...fill in the blanks a you get a
page like it FREE....Yes thats FREE....You can list items for a while FREE
also...True its small...But its growing...Bob Conner RCON7
----- Original Message -----
From: "bull_gator_1" <bull_gator_1@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 2:03 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] RE: eBay Cancellation


> I found it interesting that this seller cancelled several auctions at
> the same time. All had starting prices at $9.95 and some had bids
> over $60. The guy sells a lot of AF and currently has over 65 items
> listed and has a boatload of good feedback, so I don't think he's a
> bad actor. There were also a couple of hours left to go on these
> auctions and anyone familiar with eBay knows the bids increase
> dramatically in the last few minutes. If I checked the going prices
> on my auctions two hours before they closed I'd probably cancel them
> all! If not for the snipers I'd never turn a profit!!
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21653 From: AF336 Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: Cancelling auctions and a new site
Well, it might be the fair way, but nothing is more disappointing than
bidding a fair price on something and then loosing it in the last few
seconds. I live in an area where there is little to no opportunity to buy AF
other than on ebay or collectors auctions.

After seeing things be lost to people who would bid the minimum bid a little
at a time to test where you are I have become someone who never bids until
the last.

I use sniper software to do it and now the only time I bid early is to get
it to show up in the items I am bidding on page.

You may think this is unfair, but I thought what was happening to me before
was unfair. I put what I think is a fair price in the sniper software and if
I get it fine, and if I don't fine. I at least feel like I am on equal
footing.

I personally consider running up a bid on someone for the joy/thrill of it
to be unfair.


To each his own....




----- Original Message -----
From: "robert allen conner" <rcon7@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "bull_gator_1" <bull_gator_1@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] RE: Cancelling auctions and a new site


> I don't know the full story...But I have a note in my AUCTIONS that I
> reserve the right to cancel it if I am not happy with the prices....I have
> sold many things at less than 1/4 of their value....I will now cancel an
> auction if I have a 1.00 bid on a 100.00 item if in the last hour nothing
> has happened for the 7 days it has run....When I bid, I bid early, and for
> what I am willing to pay.....THATS THE FAIR WAY...I have on occasions, for
> fun waited to the last few minutes to play games with snipers.....seeing
how
> much I can bid without getting the item.....Try that game....its a
> RUSH....and yes I have gotten the item A couple of times....but in the
long
> run I am ahead.....Bid early...Bid fair.....I am also starting to bid on A
> new site called BIDWAY....( the whoo didn't do anything for me ) On this
one
> you can make money....Go to my page and look at it
> http://rcon7.myoutlets.com ...If you like...fill in the blanks a you get a
> page like it FREE....Yes thats FREE....You can list items for a while FREE
> also...True its small...But its growing...Bob Conner RCON7
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bull_gator_1" <bull_gator_1@...>
> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 2:03 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] RE: eBay Cancellation
>
>
> > I found it interesting that this seller cancelled several auctions at
> > the same time. All had starting prices at $9.95 and some had bids
> > over $60. The guy sells a lot of AF and currently has over 65 items
> > listed and has a boatload of good feedback, so I don't think he's a
> > bad actor. There were also a couple of hours left to go on these
> > auctions and anyone familiar with eBay knows the bids increase
> > dramatically in the last few minutes. If I checked the going prices
> > on my auctions two hours before they closed I'd probably cancel them
> > all! If not for the snipers I'd never turn a profit!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21654 From: rkuepper Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: ebay cancelation
I don't know why that was cancelled, but I can give you one possible reason.
I haven't listed anything on ebay for over a year, and then only sold train
stuff. Suddenly a week ago I got a confirmation from ebay that my listings
of a digital camera and a laptop valued together at $8,000 had been posted.
When I checked the listings, they were under my name but someone with the
email Lottoboy70 at yahoo.Es would provide more info. I emailed Lotto and
told him to remove the items immediately, then went in and changed the
descriptions to note they were false, notified ebay to remove the items and
the charges, and notified the National Fraud Information Center. Ebay
responded that someone had listed the items under my ID, and that they were
removing the listing charges. I don't know how this person expected to get
the money from any bidder, but it sure got my attention!! Protect your ebay
account.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Sibbald" <innotron@...>
To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 1:57 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] ebay cancelation


> Hi all,
> I just had another Ebay auction cancelled at the last second.
> Apparently the sellers unanounced reserve wasn't met so he cancelled.
> Ebay is not willing to even report to us how many auctions have been
> cancelled by a seller in the feedback page. They are paid by the sellers
> and not the buyers. Here is their message.
>
> Dear eBay Community Member,
>
> The bid that you entered for the item
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1782609147
> has been cancelled.
>
> You can view the reason provided for the cancellation by selecting the
> (bid history) link from the individual item page.
>
> Regards,
> eBay
>
> I keep a list of these scumbags on my computer and I won't bid again on
> anything they are selling, no matter what.
> Innotron
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21655 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Gabe Instructions
Does anyone have or know where I can get a copy of the Operating
Instructions for the AF Gabe accessory? Thanks,Hcopter52
Group: S-Trains Message: 21656 From: Al Reibel Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: Cancelling auctions and a new site
>
>
>After seeing things be lost to people who would bid the minimum bid a little
>at a time to test where you are I have become someone who never bids until
>the last.
>
>I personally consider running up a bid on someone for the joy/thrill of it
>to be unfair.
>
>
AMEN!!!

I am in the same boat, there is exactly one shop within a two hour drive
of me that has any Flyer. If he has it, I'll buy it there. But a lot of
"vintage" (the universal Ebay term for overpriced) Flyer isn't available
to me except on the Net.
I am amazed at some of the prices that stuff goes for- the recent batch
of $500 Flyer Northerns are a good example. The "local" place has one
I can see in person and it's $380. Sometimes you get a reasonably priced
piece, which is why I've become a sniper also. Too many auctions lost
because a "chipper" will bid 10 or 20 times trying to beat you- drives me
nuts whenever you see one guy with that many bids in the history! And
if it's something I really want, you can bet my software is aimed at it
with 10 seconds to go, and his string of two dollar bids is history.
I a perfect world, yes everyone would bid what they wanted to pay up front,
but real life just don't work that way. And I also agree that shilling
is shilling, regardless of if it's for fun or profit.
Al Reibel
Group: S-Trains Message: 21657 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] RE: Cancelling auctions and a new site
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Brown
To: robert allen conner
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] RE: Cancelling auctions and a new site


I think running up the price on something just for the thrill of it is not a good thing to do - that's my opinion. If a person doing this can be tied to the seller, then that person is called a shill. Operating a shill is against ebay policy and can result in the shill and the seller being kicked off ebay. I'm not making any accusations. I'm stating what I believe is ebay's policy for the edification of us all.

As far as listing in your auction that you have the right to cancel the auction if you don't think the bidding is going high enough, consider this: real-time auctions don't operate that way, to my knowledge. Just because you put something in writing in your auction as your "rules" for your auction, doesn't necessarily make it right.

It's your auction. It's your hobby or business. It's your ethics. It's also my option whether to do business with you or not. There are sellers on ebay I won't do business with because I don't like the way they do business. There are some I love to do business with and follow their auctions. I'm not making a stand one way or the other with your auctions.

Why is it more fair to bid early than to bid at the last second? If you can't bid at the last second, when is the proper cutoff, at the next-to-last second, or 30 seconds before the end of the auction, or 1 minute... Where is that line?

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: robert allen conner
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com ; bull_gator_1
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] RE: Cancelling auctions and a new site


I don't know the full story...But I have a note in my AUCTIONS that I
reserve the right to cancel it if I am not happy with the prices....I have
sold many things at less than 1/4 of their value....I will now cancel an
auction if I have a 1.00 bid on a 100.00 item if in the last hour nothing
has happened for the 7 days it has run....When I bid, I bid early, and for
what I am willing to pay.....THATS THE FAIR WAY...I have on occasions, for
fun waited to the last few minutes to play games with snipers.....seeing how
much I can bid without getting the item.....Try that game....its a
RUSH....and yes I have gotten the item A couple of times....but in the long
run I am ahead.....Bid early...Bid fair.....I am also starting to bid on A
new site called BIDWAY....( the whoo didn't do anything for me ) On this one
you can make money....Go to my page and look at it
http://rcon7.myoutlets.com ...If you like...fill in the blanks a you get a
page like it FREE....Yes thats FREE....You can list items for a while FREE
also...True its small...But its growing...Bob Conner RCON7
----- Original Message -----
From: "bull_gator_1" <bull_gator_1@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 2:03 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] RE: eBay Cancellation


> I found it interesting that this seller cancelled several auctions at
> the same time. All had starting prices at $9.95 and some had bids
> over $60. The guy sells a lot of AF and currently has over 65 items
> listed and has a boatload of good feedback, so I don't think he's a
> bad actor. There were also a couple of hours left to go on these
> auctions and anyone familiar with eBay knows the bids increase
> dramatically in the last few minutes. If I checked the going prices
> on my auctions two hours before they closed I'd probably cancel them
> all! If not for the snipers I'd never turn a profit!!
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21658 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: No doubt about it
I received my Gilbert American Flyer Instruction Book today from Amazon. Right on page 16 is an explanation and drawing of the common rail system using two transformers with their base posts connected. Their is nothing implied about it. Gilbert advocated that system with the common rail being the one connected to the base posts.

I recommend the book to everyone setting up any kind of a Flyer layout. There were a couple things I learned from it. Good investment and good reading right straight from the source.

-Tim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21659 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: [S-Trains] RE: Cancelling auctions and a new site
If you really want the item, you might have to join in on the bidding frenzy at the very end. The person who admitted to getting a rush from shilling could maybe invite some friends over for a poker game instead.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Brockmann
To: Tim Brown
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [S-Trains] RE: Cancelling auctions and a new site


What is a person to do? Dont you just love it when you place a bid
that remains the high bid until one minute or so is left and then the
bidding starts hot and heavy? I guess it all boils down to how bad
you want an item as to how you bid on it. I must be naive to think
that no-one would act with a seller in raising the price by shilling.
Some auctions go on and on until there is one minute where there is
no bidding at all, then the auction ends. Opinions? John B.



--- In S-Trains@y..., "Tim Brown" <Timboy@a...> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim Brown
> To: robert allen conner
> Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 5:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] RE: Cancelling auctions and a new site
>
>
> I think running up the price on something just for the thrill of it
is not a good thing to do - that's my opinion. If a person doing
this can be tied to the seller, then that person is called a shill.
Operating a shill is against ebay policy and can result in the shill
and the seller being kicked off ebay. I'm not making any
accusations. I'm stating what I believe is ebay's policy for the
edification of us all.
>
> As far as listing in your auction that you have the right to cancel
the auction if you don't think the bidding is going high enough,
consider this: real-time auctions don't operate that way, to my
knowledge. Just because you put something in writing in your auction
as your "rules" for your auction, doesn't necessarily make it right.
>
> It's your auction. It's your hobby or business. It's your
ethics. It's also my option whether to do business with you or not.
There are sellers on ebay I won't do business with because I don't
like the way they do business. There are some I love to do business
with and follow their auctions. I'm not making a stand one way or
the other with your auctions.
>
> Why is it more fair to bid early than to bid at the last second?
If you can't bid at the last second, when is the proper cutoff, at
the next-to-last second, or 30 seconds before the end of the auction,
or 1 minute... Where is that line?
>
> -Tim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: robert allen conner
> To: S-Trains@y... ; bull_gator_1
> Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 2:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] RE: Cancelling auctions and a new site
>
>
> I don't know the full story...But I have a note in my AUCTIONS
that I
> reserve the right to cancel it if I am not happy with the
prices....I have
> sold many things at less than 1/4 of their value....I will now
cancel an
> auction if I have a 1.00 bid on a 100.00 item if in the last hour
nothing
> has happened for the 7 days it has run....When I bid, I bid
early, and for
> what I am willing to pay.....THATS THE FAIR WAY...I have on
occasions, for
> fun waited to the last few minutes to play games with
snipers.....seeing how
> much I can bid without getting the item.....Try that game....its a
> RUSH....and yes I have gotten the item A couple of times....but
in the long
> run I am ahead.....Bid early...Bid fair.....I am also starting to
bid on A
> new site called BIDWAY....( the whoo didn't do anything for me )
On this one
> you can make money....Go to my page and look at it
> http://rcon7.myoutlets.com ...If you like...fill in the blanks a
you get a
> page like it FREE....Yes thats FREE....You can list items for a
while FREE
> also...True its small...But its growing...Bob Conner RCON7
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bull_gator_1" <bull_gator_1@y...>
> To: <S-Trains@y...>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 2:03 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] RE: eBay Cancellation
>
>
> > I found it interesting that this seller cancelled several
auctions at
> > the same time. All had starting prices at $9.95 and some had
bids
> > over $60. The guy sells a lot of AF and currently has over 65
items
> > listed and has a boatload of good feedback, so I don't think
he's a
> > bad actor. There were also a couple of hours left to go on
these
> > auctions and anyone familiar with eBay knows the bids increase
> > dramatically in the last few minutes. If I checked the going
prices
> > on my auctions two hours before they closed I'd probably cancel
them
> > all! If not for the snipers I'd never turn a profit!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-
unsubscribe@Y...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21660 From: Tom Pennington Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: Cancelling auctions
If you think about it, why would any person bid early? The more people bid
early, the higher the price goes.
If one presumes that bidders are looking for bargains, then it is adverse
to their interests to bid early. I'm sure
this drives sellers crazy (have sold some items and it causes me anxious
moments), but if they want to make sure
they get their minimum price, they can either set a high starting bid, or
they can use a reserve. The seller has
means of protecting themselves, bidding at the end is my way of protecting
myself. It does two things: first, it helps
keep the bid low, and second, if I bid with 2-3 seconds left, it prevents
me from going over my predetermined limit. I
either get the item, or someone else pays more than I am willing to for
it. Fairness does not enter into the equation
as to when I bid.
As for deliberately running up the bid for the heck of it, may someone else
do it to this person on something they just
got to have!!! It may not be against the rules, but is certainly dishonest
and represents a person I would never do business
with.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21661 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: Cancelling auctions and a new site
Hey Guys....I don't consider it shilling.....shilling is where you bid, or
have someone bid, on your own stuff.....I like to watch the second hand and
fire in my bid as close as I can to the cut off time....Its always on
something I want too....Therefore if I lose I am happy with the thrill of
being close and gotten beaten.....But if I win....I am more happy...I have
gotten quite a few sets, and lost on quite a few.....I just noticed the I
was overbid about 10 times on an item tonight...the starting price was about
100...I have a bid in for over 300...so it just keeps bumping up....there is
about 26 bids so far....got to run...want to raise my bid again.... You will
find it if you look on http://rcon7.myoutlets.com Bob



> >I personally consider running up a bid on someone for the joy/thrill of
it
> is shilling, regardless of if it's for fun or profit.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21662 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: Cancelling auctions
Why bid early: if you bid early it marks the item on your E-BAY page. This
way you can follow the price of the item. You can do this with Watch this
item, but only 20 items. Also it shows some of the others that you are
interested in the item. If I see that a friend of mine is bidding on
something I wont bid on it. I also try & not outbid someone that has bought
from me in the past (This is hard). It is still an open market.
The pulling an item is as bad as pulling a bid if you go in & bid $2,000
over a reas. amt. All you have to say is you hit too many 0's.You will get
a notice from E-bay for this, If you do it to often. The whole thing is it
is a system based on Trust, & you can't TRUST EVERYONE....MikeS.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21663 From: rkuepper Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: Cancelling auctions
I agree. I don't bid a lot, but I have had most success with the
last-minute bid to get items I really wanted.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Pennington" <tjpennington@...>
To: "S-Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 7:28 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Cancelling auctions


> If you think about it, why would any person bid early? The more people
bid
> early, the higher the price goes.
> If one presumes that bidders are looking for bargains, then it is adverse
> to their interests to bid early. I'm sure
> this drives sellers crazy (have sold some items and it causes me anxious
> moments), but if they want to make sure
> they get their minimum price, they can either set a high starting bid, or
> they can use a reserve. The seller has
> means of protecting themselves, bidding at the end is my way of protecting
> myself. It does two things: first, it helps
> keep the bid low, and second, if I bid with 2-3 seconds left, it prevents
> me from going over my predetermined limit. I
> either get the item, or someone else pays more than I am willing to for
> it. Fairness does not enter into the equation
> as to when I bid.
> As for deliberately running up the bid for the heck of it, may someone
else
> do it to this person on something they just
> got to have!!! It may not be against the rules, but is certainly
dishonest
> and represents a person I would never do business
> with.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21664 From: rkuepper Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: Cancelling auctions
A good transaction is when a willing buyer pays what he/she is willing to
pay to a seller who is happy with the offer ON A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. If
the field isn't level, or if someone wants to pay more than the willing
buyer, you didn't get stung.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: <anormal1@...>
To: <tjpennington@...>; <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: Cancelling auctions


> Why bid early: if you bid early it marks the item on your E-BAY page. This
> way you can follow the price of the item. You can do this with Watch this
> item, but only 20 items. Also it shows some of the others that you are
> interested in the item. If I see that a friend of mine is bidding on
> something I wont bid on it. I also try & not outbid someone that has
bought
> from me in the past (This is hard). It is still an open market.
> The pulling an item is as bad as pulling a bid if you go in & bid $2,000
> over a reas. amt. All you have to say is you hit too many 0's.You will
get
> a notice from E-bay for this, If you do it to often. The whole thing is
it
> is a system based on Trust, & you can't TRUST EVERYONE....MikeS.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21665 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: S-fest; Uncataloged set
For A value take the items from any price guide...total them.....add
anywhere from 20.00 to 60.00 for the box...then add about 15% for a set
package...this will give you an approximate price....around 250.00 if really
nice...Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy Plotnick" <plotnick@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 1:38 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] S-fest; Uncataloged set


> 1. I want to thank everyone who responded to my request for feedback on
the
> S-fest. I have summarized your responses and forwarded them to the
organizers.
>
> 2. I picked up the following set this weekend at an antiques show in Ann
> Arbor, MI. Although similar to sets listed in Robert Tufts book, it seems
> to be an unlisted variant:
>
> 5500-T on end of box, 2H347 stamped on top.
> Locomotive: 308. Rolling stock:801,803,806
> Acc: 1 1/2 transformer, 706
>
> 12 curve, 2 straight
>
> All paper present, including stamped engine wrapper, box a bit worn.
> Does anyone know this one? How do I value it?
> Thanks.
> -Roy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy Plotnick" <plotnick@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 1:38 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] S-fest; Uncataloged set


> 1. I want to thank everyone who responded to my request for feedback on
the
> S-fest. I have summarized your responses and forwarded them to the
organizers.
>
> 2. I picked up the following set this weekend at an antiques show in Ann
> Arbor, MI. Although similar to sets listed in Robert Tufts book, it seems
> to be an unlisted variant:
>
> 5500-T on end of box, 2H347 stamped on top.
> Locomotive: 308. Rolling stock:801,803,806
> Acc: 1 1/2 transformer, 706
>
> 12 curve, 2 straight
>
> All paper present, including stamped engine wrapper, box a bit worn.
> Does anyone know this one? How do I value it?
> Thanks.
> -Roy
>
> Roy E. Plotnick
> Professor
> Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences
> University of Illinois at Chicago
> 845 W. Taylor St.
> Chicago, IL 60607
> plotnick@...
> office phone: 312-996-2111 fax: 312-413-2279
> lab phone: 312-355-1342
> web page: http://www.uic.edu/~plotnick/plotnick.htm
> "The scientific celebrities, forgetting their molluscs and
> glacial periods, gossiped about art, while devoting themselves to
> oysters and ices with characteristic energy.." -Little Women, Louisa May
> Alcott
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21666 From: Wayne Zebron Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: brakeman
Hi,

I finally got the warkman car in shape and it works fine on the bench using
ac. I incorrectly assumed that the pulasting dc (no filters) I use to run
my trains would be enough to get the man on the move. It seems hopeless but
if there is a solution someone in this group has it. Thanks in advance for
any help. The good news is I rewound the coil on the lumber car and it
works fine. I use ac for its opperation.

Wayne
Group: S-Trains Message: 21667 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: Cancelling auctions
I certainly have no argument against bidding early if you feel comfortable doing that. However, you don't need to do that to "bookmark" the auction. Just log in and click on "watch this item".

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: anormal1@...
To: tjpennington@... ; s-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: Cancelling auctions


Why bid early: if you bid early it marks the item on your E-BAY page. This
way you can follow the price of the item. You can do this with Watch this
item, but only 20 items. Also it shows some of the others that you are
interested in the item. If I see that a friend of mine is bidding on
something I wont bid on it. I also try & not outbid someone that has bought
from me in the past (This is hard). It is still an open market.
The pulling an item is as bad as pulling a bid if you go in & bid $2,000
over a reas. amt. All you have to say is you hit too many 0's.You will get
a notice from E-bay for this, If you do it to often. The whole thing is it
is a system based on Trust, & you can't TRUST EVERYONE....MikeS.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21668 From: Al Reibel Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Flyer Plastic?
I have a couple runners I am trying to make presentable,
and they need some bodywork! Can anyone recommend
a good adhesive for repairing cracks in plastic?
I have a 370 locomotive and a couple passenger cars,
the 370 has a chunk broken out on the front step/ side of
the cab area. The pass cars both have long "splits" down the
middle of the roof. It doesn't appear that there is any areas
that require structural strength. My first choice is a 5 minute
epoxy, but would a plastic welder (like Tenax) be better?
Thanks!
Al
Group: S-Trains Message: 21669 From: Michael T Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: eBay auctions
<<<<I certainly have no argument against bidding early if you feel
comfortable doing that. However, you don't need to do that
to "bookmark" the auction. Just log in and click on "watch this
item".

-Tim>>>>

I agree, I am a frequent eBayer considering I am on a 16-year-old
budget. I never bid more than a minute before the auction's end. The
ONLY time I will bid early is if I am not going to be home and i
understand when people do this. I hate these people who will compete
back and forth when there are 4 or so days left, all this does is
jack up the price. At times I feel that I am the only one who likes
to save money. Also, about the bidding to bookmark the auction, I
understand where you are coming from but wouldn't you rather save the
$1 or so (if you win) and simply "watch the item"? I know there is a
20 auction limit, but you can always "bookmark it" it the old fashion
way by using your browsers bookmarker. If you disagree, I suppose I
am just cheap.

Michael Tomsa
Chicago, Illinois
Group: S-Trains Message: 21670 From: Dan Brindell Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Modest suggestion to eBay
If eBay had any sense, they would implement the following rule: the
placement of any bid near the end of an auction, means that the time of the
auction is automatically extended for 10 minutes after that bid is placed.
Think about it for a minute. Would a real-live auctioneer stop an auction
due to a time limit? Of course not. He will keep taking bids from the
floor as long as the bidders keep bidding.

Such a rule could benefit almost everyone. The frustration around sniping
could be reduced. Sellers would get higher prices due to more bids. Buyers
would have a chance to get their items without worrying about time limits
and sniping (although they might pay a little more).

Dan


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>
To: "S-List" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "John Brockmann"
<hcopter51@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [S-Trains] RE: Cancelling auctions and a new site


> If you really want the item, you might have to join in on the bidding
frenzy at the very end. The person who admitted to getting a rush from
shilling could maybe invite some friends over for a poker game instead.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Brockmann
> To: Tim Brown
> Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 5:27 PM
> Subject: Re: Fw: [S-Trains] RE: Cancelling auctions and a new site
>
>
> What is a person to do? Dont you just love it when you place a bid
> that remains the high bid until one minute or so is left and then the
> bidding starts hot and heavy? I guess it all boils down to how bad
> you want an item as to how you bid on it. I must be naive to think
> that no-one would act with a seller in raising the price by shilling.
> Some auctions go on and on until there is one minute where there is
> no bidding at all, then the auction ends. Opinions? John B.
>
>
>
> --- In S-Trains@y..., "Tim Brown" <Timboy@a...> wrote:
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Tim Brown
> > To: robert allen conner
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 5:08 PM
> > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] RE: Cancelling auctions and a new site
> >
> >
> > I think running up the price on something just for the thrill of it
> is not a good thing to do - that's my opinion. If a person doing
> this can be tied to the seller, then that person is called a shill.
> Operating a shill is against ebay policy and can result in the shill
> and the seller being kicked off ebay. I'm not making any
> accusations. I'm stating what I believe is ebay's policy for the
> edification of us all.
> >
> > As far as listing in your auction that you have the right to cancel
> the auction if you don't think the bidding is going high enough,
> consider this: real-time auctions don't operate that way, to my
> knowledge. Just because you put something in writing in your auction
> as your "rules" for your auction, doesn't necessarily make it right.
> >
> > It's your auction. It's your hobby or business. It's your
> ethics. It's also my option whether to do business with you or not.
> There are sellers on ebay I won't do business with because I don't
> like the way they do business. There are some I love to do business
> with and follow their auctions. I'm not making a stand one way or
> the other with your auctions.
> >
> > Why is it more fair to bid early than to bid at the last second?
> If you can't bid at the last second, when is the proper cutoff, at
> the next-to-last second, or 30 seconds before the end of the auction,
> or 1 minute... Where is that line?
> >
> > -Tim
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: robert allen conner
> > To: S-Trains@y... ; bull_gator_1
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 2:40 PM
> > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] RE: Cancelling auctions and a new site
> >
> >
> > I don't know the full story...But I have a note in my AUCTIONS
> that I
> > reserve the right to cancel it if I am not happy with the
> prices....I have
> > sold many things at less than 1/4 of their value....I will now
> cancel an
> > auction if I have a 1.00 bid on a 100.00 item if in the last hour
> nothing
> > has happened for the 7 days it has run....When I bid, I bid
> early, and for
> > what I am willing to pay.....THATS THE FAIR WAY...I have on
> occasions, for
> > fun waited to the last few minutes to play games with
> snipers.....seeing how
> > much I can bid without getting the item.....Try that game....its a
> > RUSH....and yes I have gotten the item A couple of times....but
> in the long
> > run I am ahead.....Bid early...Bid fair.....I am also starting to
> bid on A
> > new site called BIDWAY....( the whoo didn't do anything for me )
> On this one
> > you can make money....Go to my page and look at it
> > http://rcon7.myoutlets.com ...If you like...fill in the blanks a
> you get a
> > page like it FREE....Yes thats FREE....You can list items for a
> while FREE
> > also...True its small...But its growing...Bob Conner RCON7
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "bull_gator_1" <bull_gator_1@y...>
> > To: <S-Trains@y...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 2:03 PM
> > Subject: [S-Trains] RE: eBay Cancellation
> >
> >
> > > I found it interesting that this seller cancelled several
> auctions at
> > > the same time. All had starting prices at $9.95 and some had
> bids
> > > over $60. The guy sells a lot of AF and currently has over 65
> items
> > > listed and has a boatload of good feedback, so I don't think
> he's a
> > > bad actor. There were also a couple of hours left to go on
> these
> > > auctions and anyone familiar with eBay knows the bids increase
> > > dramatically in the last few minutes. If I checked the going
> prices
> > > on my auctions two hours before they closed I'd probably cancel
> them
> > > all! If not for the snipers I'd never turn a profit!!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > > All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
> > >
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-
> unsubscribe@Y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21671 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: Flyer Plastic?
I found a product call "Weldbond" which is a white glue...Really holds on
things like metal to wood, but never used it on boilers....I have cut and
extended boilers using "Microweld" model airplane glue....holds pretty
well...Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 21672 From: keith kuzma Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Fwd: geep shell
--- keith kuzma <keefer1_us@...> wrote:
> Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 20:58:26 -0800 (PST)
> From: keith kuzma <keefer1_us@...>
> Subject: geep shell
> To: strains@yahoogroups.com
>
> Anyone have a reasonably priced geep shell(any
> condition) for sale? contact me off list.Keith
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
> http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
>


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21673 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains
group.

File : /AF 4-6-6-4 Challenger project/30 #3336 side view.jpg
Uploaded by : lbdrummer3 <lbdrummer3@...>
Description : Here are 9 builders photos of AF#3336 (formerly 4-6-6-4 Challenger project) fresh out of the "Fred the Flyer Chopper" shops.

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/AF%204-6-6-4%20Challenger%20project/30%20%233336%20side%20view.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

lbdrummer3 <lbdrummer3@...>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21674 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: #3336 completed (was 4-6-6-4 Challenger Project)
Hi all, I just finished my baby late last week and ran it through some
trials to work out the bugs. IT'S ALIVE and chooing well!
I decided on using #3336 because I liked the way it looked and I was
able to use a Lionel fan smoke unit to provide the smoke. The double
choo choo unit seems to work well and sounds great.
Taking the stock ACG curved track is no problem for this beast but
I'll need to watch what structers I put around the corners lol...
Finally I want to thank all of you that have offered advice and
support during the construction. I started back in January maybe
earlier than that and the engine half is now finished.
I'm still working on the northern tender and have decided to build a
tender floor out of sheet metal and am looking for some trucks right
now. I am also going to contact Chris about getting a can motor
because the stock ACG motor is really working hard to push all of that
weight around lol...
Thanks again everyone
Fred (the flyer chopper) Rawling
PS I am going to finish the construction article for the ones who are
brave enough to start chopping. Just bear with me.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21675 From: David Dewey Date: 11/5/2002
Subject: Re: #3336 completed (was 4-6-6-4 Challenger Project)
Chopping Flyer?? Blasphemy!! Gee. . . .sure looks cool. . . .
Can motors??? AAAUGH!! Gee. . . . .sure looks cool. . . .be a shame to fry
an armature. . . .
Don't know if the boiler inspectors would approve that much overhang!!! But
on wide radius track. . . . Geee. . . .Sure looks COOL!!
Dang, where's my junk box. . . .
Ya better get ta writin'!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21676 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: eBay auctions
Nah, you're not cheap. There's nothing wrong with a little frugality. Frugality got me retired at age 51!

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael T
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 10:33 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] eBay auctions


<<<<I certainly have no argument against bidding early if you feel
comfortable doing that. However, you don't need to do that
to "bookmark" the auction. Just log in and click on "watch this
item".

-Tim>>>>

I agree, I am a frequent eBayer considering I am on a 16-year-old
budget. I never bid more than a minute before the auction's end. The
ONLY time I will bid early is if I am not going to be home and i
understand when people do this. I hate these people who will compete
back and forth when there are 4 or so days left, all this does is
jack up the price. At times I feel that I am the only one who likes
to save money. Also, about the bidding to bookmark the auction, I
understand where you are coming from but wouldn't you rather save the
$1 or so (if you win) and simply "watch the item"? I know there is a
20 auction limit, but you can always "bookmark it" it the old fashion
way by using your browsers bookmarker. If you disagree, I suppose I
am just cheap.

Michael Tomsa
Chicago, Illinois


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All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21677 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Modest suggestion to eBay
I was thinking that very thing. Ten minutes might be a little long. If people are sniping, then they are online watching the auction, so an extension of two minutes ought to be long enough, I think. Sellers would certainly benefit, provided the ones continuing to bid aren't deadbeats. Maybe that's why ebay doesn't do it. Deadbeats could purposely clog up the works and bring the system to a halt.

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Brindell
To: S-List
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 10:52 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Fw: Modest suggestion to eBay


If eBay had any sense, they would implement the following rule: the
placement of any bid near the end of an auction, means that the time of the
auction is automatically extended for 10 minutes after that bid is placed.
Think about it for a minute. Would a real-live auctioneer stop an auction
due to a time limit? Of course not. He will keep taking bids from the
floor as long as the bidders keep bidding.

Such a rule could benefit almost everyone. The frustration around sniping
could be reduced. Sellers would get higher prices due to more bids. Buyers
would have a chance to get their items without worrying about time limits
and sniping (although they might pay a little more).

Dan


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>
To: "S-List" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "John Brockmann"
<hcopter51@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [S-Trains] RE: Cancelling auctions and a new site


> If you really want the item, you might have to join in on the bidding
frenzy at the very end. The person who admitted to getting a rush from
shilling could maybe invite some friends over for a poker game instead.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Brockmann
> To: Tim Brown
> Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 5:27 PM
> Subject: Re: Fw: [S-Trains] RE: Cancelling auctions and a new site
>
>
> What is a person to do? Dont you just love it when you place a bid
> that remains the high bid until one minute or so is left and then the
> bidding starts hot and heavy? I guess it all boils down to how bad
> you want an item as to how you bid on it. I must be naive to think
> that no-one would act with a seller in raising the price by shilling.
> Some auctions go on and on until there is one minute where there is
> no bidding at all, then the auction ends. Opinions? John B.
>
>
>
> --- In S-Trains@y..., "Tim Brown" <Timboy@a...> wrote:
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Tim Brown
> > To: robert allen conner
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 5:08 PM
> > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] RE: Cancelling auctions and a new site
> >
> >
> > I think running up the price on something just for the thrill of it
> is not a good thing to do - that's my opinion. If a person doing
> this can be tied to the seller, then that person is called a shill.
> Operating a shill is against ebay policy and can result in the shill
> and the seller being kicked off ebay. I'm not making any
> accusations. I'm stating what I believe is ebay's policy for the
> edification of us all.
> >
> > As far as listing in your auction that you have the right to cancel
> the auction if you don't think the bidding is going high enough,
> consider this: real-time auctions don't operate that way, to my
> knowledge. Just because you put something in writing in your auction
> as your "rules" for your auction, doesn't necessarily make it right.
> >
> > It's your auction. It's your hobby or business. It's your
> ethics. It's also my option whether to do business with you or not.
> There are sellers on ebay I won't do business with because I don't
> like the way they do business. There are some I love to do business
> with and follow their auctions. I'm not making a stand one way or
> the other with your auctions.
> >
> > Why is it more fair to bid early than to bid at the last second?
> If you can't bid at the last second, when is the proper cutoff, at
> the next-to-last second, or 30 seconds before the end of the auction,
> or 1 minute... Where is that line?
> >
> > -Tim
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: robert allen conner
> > To: S-Trains@y... ; bull_gator_1
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 2:40 PM
> > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] RE: Cancelling auctions and a new site
> >
> >
> > I don't know the full story...But I have a note in my AUCTIONS
> that I
> > reserve the right to cancel it if I am not happy with the
> prices....I have
> > sold many things at less than 1/4 of their value....I will now
> cancel an
> > auction if I have a 1.00 bid on a 100.00 item if in the last hour
> nothing
> > has happened for the 7 days it has run....When I bid, I bid
> early, and for
> > what I am willing to pay.....THATS THE FAIR WAY...I have on
> occasions, for
> > fun waited to the last few minutes to play games with
> snipers.....seeing how
> > much I can bid without getting the item.....Try that game....its a
> > RUSH....and yes I have gotten the item A couple of times....but
> in the long
> > run I am ahead.....Bid early...Bid fair.....I am also starting to
> bid on A
> > new site called BIDWAY....( the whoo didn't do anything for me )
> On this one
> > you can make money....Go to my page and look at it
> > http://rcon7.myoutlets.com ...If you like...fill in the blanks a
> you get a
> > page like it FREE....Yes thats FREE....You can list items for a
> while FREE
> > also...True its small...But its growing...Bob Conner RCON7
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "bull_gator_1" <bull_gator_1@y...>
> > To: <S-Trains@y...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 2:03 PM
> > Subject: [S-Trains] RE: eBay Cancellation
> >
> >
> > > I found it interesting that this seller cancelled several
> auctions at
> > > the same time. All had starting prices at $9.95 and some had
> bids
> > > over $60. The guy sells a lot of AF and currently has over 65
> items
> > > listed and has a boatload of good feedback, so I don't think
> he's a
> > > bad actor. There were also a couple of hours left to go on
> these
> > > auctions and anyone familiar with eBay knows the bids increase
> > > dramatically in the last few minutes. If I checked the going
> prices
> > > on my auctions two hours before they closed I'd probably cancel
> them
> > > all! If not for the snipers I'd never turn a profit!!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > > All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
> > >
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-
> unsubscribe@Y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21678 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: blank attachments
Someone sent me three blank attachments entitled offline.gif, offline.gif
1, and w.gif. 2 K each. Did someone on the list send them?

Thanks. Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21679 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Sniping and Shilling
I really hate it when I get zapped at the very end of an auction and lose
the item for just a dollar more than my bid. That's sniping, and I used to
scream about it when it happened to me.

Now I realize that it is simply a natural result of the methods of the eBay
auction. Because time regulates the end of the sale rather than the end of
bidding, as in a live auction, sniping became possible. It's not immoral,
just sometimes frustrating.

It is somewhat disingenuous of any eBayer to decry sniping and then admit to
shilling, even if he isn't actually working for the seller. Jacking the
price with no intent to buy is indeed shilling. Allow me this quote: " When
I bid, I bid early, and for what I am willing to pay.....THATS THE FAIR
WAY...I have on occasions, for fun waited to the last few minutes to play
games with snipers.....seeing how much I can bid without getting the
item.....Try that game....its a RUSH....and yes I have gotten the item A
couple of times....but in the long run I am ahead.....Bid early...Bid fair."

Bidding early with the maximum price you are willing to pay will insure one
thing. You will not win that auction (unless your maximum is based upon a
ridiculously higher than market figure.) Early bid fights are foolish. As
a buyer, it is your duty to yourself to try to get the item as cheaply as
you can. As a seller, it is your goal to get as much as you can for the
item. Where the two goals cross over is where the deal is made. If the
seller isn't getting any reasonable action, he can cancel and get out.
Maybe, in a few days, business will pick up. Sometimes bidding runs in
cycles. Sometimes it is affected by outside influences: holidays, interest
rate announcements, a slow stock market. Who knows? It's a market, after
all. Comments that you cannot withdraw in a regular auction are as
irrelevant as they are untrue. I have been to auctions where the auctioneer
could not drum up more than a few dollars interest in an item so he pulled
it out and moved on, cancelling the bids. And even if some auctioneers
don't do that, so what? You can do it on eBay.

I don't know what is so fair about bidding early. I don't know what is so
fair about anything. I do know that it is unfair and obnoxious to
intentionally play games with an auction to make last minute buyers pay more
because you don't like the practice of sniping. Then, to admit to putting
in last minute bids . . . where's the moral code in that?

You want fair? Go back to your kid years. "Don't play with your food, eat
it." You are either in the game, or you're out. Hiding behind the scenes
and manipulating is a kind of spying and spies get shot. "Do unto others as
you would have them do unto you." When I realized that snipe bids were the
order of the day on eBay, I got into the game, with no regrets. If I win, I
did it better than the other guy. If I lose, another auction will be along
presently. My heart pounds in those final seconds. Anything can go wrong.
I try to figure it right, and often enough, I get there. There's your
thrill.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21680 From: splitdorf@1bigred.com Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: #3336 completed (was 4-6-6-4 Challenger Project)
Awsome! Great Job Fred.

Do you have another one under construction? Double-heading two of these monsters would be incomparable!

Steve Blancard
"Gimme an inch, I'll want a mile"

----- Original Message -----
From: lbdrummer3
Sent: 11/6/2002 12:40:08 AM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] #3336 completed (was 4-6-6-4 Challenger Project)

> Hi all, I just finished my baby late last week and ran it through some
> trials to work out the bugs. IT'S ALIVE and chooing well!
> I decided on using #3336 because I liked the way it looked and I was
> able to use a Lionel fan smoke unit to provide the smoke. The double
> choo choo unit seems to work well and sounds great.
> Taking the stock ACG curved track is no problem for this beast but
> I'll need to watch what structers I put around the corners lol...
> Finally I want to thank all of you that have offered advice and
> support during the construction. I started back in January maybe
> earlier than that and the engine half is now finished.
> I'm still working on the northern tender and have decided to build a
> tender floor out of sheet metal and am looking for some trucks right
> now. I am also going to contact Chris about getting a can motor
> because the stock ACG motor is really working hard to push all of that
> weight around lol...
> Thanks again everyone
> Fred (the flyer chopper) Rawling
> PS I am going to finish the construction article for the ones who are
> brave enough to start chopping. Just bear with me.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21681 From: David Dewey Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: Sniping and Shilling
I think Chris has very valid points, and I also think that eBay will
function just the way they want to, in spite of anything we say here! So
maybe we should move on?
I will mention that I have found civility will get you farther than
anything. A few years back I bid on a talking Union Station, that the seller
hadn't listed as such, but the picture was of one. At two seconds to go, I
was high bidder!! Oops, partied too soon, I was 'sniped.' Turned out to be a
fellow list member, though neither of us realized during bidding. I was so
amazed that I'd lost, I sent the seller a note, expressing my amazement and
dismay. She took pity on me and offered me some locomotives that had been
returned from a previous sale because they had corrosion on the motor
chassis and wheels. Hmm, Gee, they're NH Alcos, and the price is out of my
budget, but a steal!! So, instead of a talking station, I have some pretty
nice NH Alcos--the corrosion wasn't bad, and they appear to have few
operating hours (well, the roar contact leaf is corroded in two--anyone have
roar vibrator parts?). My note to the seller was very polite, just a "Wow,
I can't believe I didn't get that!" note. Not that this kind of result will
happen often, but when it does, oh boy, Hurk, TRAINS!
Speaking of which, I gotta get to work so mine aren't repro'd!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21682 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: roar vibrator part
David, now that would be a great part to have reproed. As you described,
the roar vibrator leaf often breaks, even if there is no corosion. There is
a great deal of stress on it when it roars. Maybe it is available, but I
have never seen it. And maybe no one wants it but me. Not everyone enjoys
the Desel Roar, also known as the Gilbert Wife Repellent, as much as I do

It's a complicated part though, with two contacts, the leaf, the weight,
etc. The material is some kind of spring steel that would be tough to work
with. Maybe just the leaf could be made, and new rivets provided, so that
one could change the weight and contacts over to the new leaf. Of course
you would have to flip it over to install the second pair of contacts, so
you would be turning over a new leaf!

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21683 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: Sniping and Shilling
So then, it's not immoral or unethical to cancel an ebay auction if the seller isn't getting the price he wants? Well then, seems to me the seller can benefit by listing the item with a low starting bid with no reserve. If the item sells at a good price, great. If not, cancel the bidding. It's a new dawn. Thanks.

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Zizzo
To: slist
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 8:44 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Sniping and Shilling


I really hate it when I get zapped at the very end of an auction and lose
the item for just a dollar more than my bid. That's sniping, and I used to
scream about it when it happened to me.

Now I realize that it is simply a natural result of the methods of the eBay
auction. Because time regulates the end of the sale rather than the end of
bidding, as in a live auction, sniping became possible. It's not immoral,
just sometimes frustrating.

It is somewhat disingenuous of any eBayer to decry sniping and then admit to
shilling, even if he isn't actually working for the seller. Jacking the
price with no intent to buy is indeed shilling. Allow me this quote: " When
I bid, I bid early, and for what I am willing to pay.....THATS THE FAIR
WAY...I have on occasions, for fun waited to the last few minutes to play
games with snipers.....seeing how much I can bid without getting the
item.....Try that game....its a RUSH....and yes I have gotten the item A
couple of times....but in the long run I am ahead.....Bid early...Bid fair."

Bidding early with the maximum price you are willing to pay will insure one
thing. You will not win that auction (unless your maximum is based upon a
ridiculously higher than market figure.) Early bid fights are foolish. As
a buyer, it is your duty to yourself to try to get the item as cheaply as
you can. As a seller, it is your goal to get as much as you can for the
item. Where the two goals cross over is where the deal is made. If the
seller isn't getting any reasonable action, he can cancel and get out.
Maybe, in a few days, business will pick up. Sometimes bidding runs in
cycles. Sometimes it is affected by outside influences: holidays, interest
rate announcements, a slow stock market. Who knows? It's a market, after
all. Comments that you cannot withdraw in a regular auction are as
irrelevant as they are untrue. I have been to auctions where the auctioneer
could not drum up more than a few dollars interest in an item so he pulled
it out and moved on, cancelling the bids. And even if some auctioneers
don't do that, so what? You can do it on eBay.

I don't know what is so fair about bidding early. I don't know what is so
fair about anything. I do know that it is unfair and obnoxious to
intentionally play games with an auction to make last minute buyers pay more
because you don't like the practice of sniping. Then, to admit to putting
in last minute bids . . . where's the moral code in that?

You want fair? Go back to your kid years. "Don't play with your food, eat
it." You are either in the game, or you're out. Hiding behind the scenes
and manipulating is a kind of spying and spies get shot. "Do unto others as
you would have them do unto you." When I realized that snipe bids were the
order of the day on eBay, I got into the game, with no regrets. If I win, I
did it better than the other guy. If I lose, another auction will be along
presently. My heart pounds in those final seconds. Anything can go wrong.
I try to figure it right, and often enough, I get there. There's your
thrill.

Chris Zizzo



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21684 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: Sniping and Shilling
Tim said:
>Well then, seems to me the seller can benefit by listing the item with a
low >starting bid with no reserve. If the item sells at a good price,
great. If not, >cancel the bidding. It's a new dawn.

Yes, I suppose so, though eBay may take a dim view of a seller who does it
too often. Like retracted bids, this is something that can be overdone.
Check eBay's TOS for details.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21685 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: Sniping and Shilling
Duck said:
>oh boy, Hurk, TRAINS!
>Speaking of which, I gotta get to work so mine aren't repro'd!

Wow, you mean that if you don't bring in a regular paycheck, somebody will
make copies of your trains? If I had that, I'd be knee-deep in locomotives!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21686 From: David Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: roar vibrator part
Just cut open a badly corroded Whistle control tube, the guts contain
the same parts but with a shorter screw holding at all together.
either rob the part your need to vise the assembly and swap the
screw. Cost $5 to $10 tops.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21687 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: EBAY Sniping and Shilling
Chris wrote:
"I have been to auctions where the auctioneer
could not drum up more than a few dollars interest in an item so he pulled it out and moved on, canceling the bids. And even if some auctioneers don't do that, so what? You can do it on eBay."

You gave the impression there is nothing wrong with the above practice some sellers have on ebay 'cuz there is precedence in the real world. Either ebay allows it or they don't. How can they allow it for a while, them pull the plug? Where is the line?

Your true position on this is illusive, I think.

-Tim


----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Zizzo
To: Tim Brown ; slist
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Sniping and Shilling


Tim said:
>Well then, seems to me the seller can benefit by listing the item with a
low >starting bid with no reserve. If the item sells at a good price,
great. If not, >cancel the bidding. It's a new dawn.

Yes, I suppose so, though eBay may take a dim view of a seller who does it
too often. Like retracted bids, this is something that can be overdone.
Check eBay's TOS for details.

Chris Zizzo



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21688 From: Gary Chidester Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Trains in New Mexico?
I am heading to Roswell, NM this weekend and I was wondering if anyone was
aware of some S-friendly places I could stop?

Thanks,

gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 21689 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: Sniping and Shilling
Guys....I think I mis led you.....When I play the game....I am getting a
rush out of getting as high as I can....and losing...but it is on items I
want.....so if I win....WOW... I'm happy...My game is trying to see how
close I can cut the Line....I am not SHILL bidding...AND I REALLY HATE IT
WHEN I BID A HIGH AMOUNT...SAY10% ABOVE WHAT I WOULD PAY AND SOMEONE SNIPES
FOR 1.00 MORE....Whats the difference between 85.00 lost at 86.00, or 355.00
lost at 356.00...Yes I would have gone the extra buck or two....but NO TIME
LEFT.... My major problem is my train room is so full I can't get in
it...and my garage, and my two room addition, and I just built A new 2 story
building in the back yard to put my shop in and stor stuff on the second
floor....Last night I had an item on BIDWAY.COM....I was High at 300.00...So
before I went to bed I raised it to 501.00...Couldn't sleep, so I got up at
1:00am to check it...It had A countdown clock indicating how many seconds
left to the close...NEAT....this auction would have automatically extended
if A bid was higher than mine at the last minute...5, 4,3, 2, 1,
Closed...Here again I would have gotten a rush if someone bid 499 or 502
.....Again this auction site is small...just starting...growing rapidly...go
to my OUTLET and check it out http://rcon7.myoutlets.com ...You can get a
free Outlet, free listings and other things, I haven't explored the private
chat rooms....Book your travel...List and sell your surplus items, etc Look
at it....Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 21690 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: Trains in New Mexico?
WOW going to Roswell....Check with Area 51....Hear they have A great old
hobby shop somewhere full of brand new AF Boxed sets from the 40's to
50's....The salesman Is A gray....Prices cheap.....Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Chidester" <GChidester@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 12:23 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Trains in New Mexico?


> I am heading to Roswell, NM this weekend and I was wondering if anyone was
> aware of some S-friendly places I could stop?
>
> Thanks,
>
> gary
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21691 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: Trains in New Mexico?
Gary,
Try area 51 :) Mike S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21692 From: Ron Inscho Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Can't find this file, try to send again
----- Original Message -----
From: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 12:18 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] New file uploaded to S-Trains



Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains
group.

File : /AF 4-6-6-4 Challenger project/30 #3336 side view.jpg
Uploaded by : lbdrummer3 <lbdrummer3@...>
Description : Here are 9 builders photos of AF#3336 (formerly 4-6-6-4
Challenger project) fresh out of the "Fred the Flyer Chopper" shops.

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/AF%204-6-6-4%20Challenger%20pro
ject/30%20%233336%20side%20view.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

lbdrummer3 <lbdrummer3@...>






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Group: S-Trains Message: 21693 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Ebay bidding....
Good post Chris Z.....
I only check the "ending first" items,...why waste time checking the newer items?
By the time you get to the ending pages,..you might have missed out on a good deal!
Plus,...if there are a lot of pages,...it takes awhile. I used to do that. Waste of time,...unless you
have a lot of extra time! It kept me up toooo late!
I never put in a high bid,...I'm cheap! {Did Dewey say somethin'? ;-)}. Well, I might at times
depending on when the auction ends. I think I can honestly say, that I have won most of the auctions
with a price I wanted to pay! Maybe a few went over my budget,...and I have lost a few by "just this much"...
due to me bidding too low/ being sniped, and those that were way over what I wanted to pay!

Rick.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21694 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Modest suggestion to eBay
Well said Dan. I would like to see the auction continue for at least
one minute more each time a bid is received. Once a minute goes by
and there are no bids the auction is over.....John B.

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Dan Brindell" <dbrindell@w...> wrote:
> If eBay had any sense, they would implement the following rule: the
> placement of any bid near the end of an auction, means that the
time of the
> auction is automatically extended for 10 minutes after that bid is
placed.
> Think about it for a minute. Would a real-live auctioneer stop an
auction
> due to a time limit? Of course not. He will keep taking bids
from the
> floor as long as the bidders keep bidding.
>
> Such a rule could benefit almost everyone. The frustration around
sniping
> could be reduced. Sellers would get higher prices due to more
bids. Buyers
> would have a chance to get their items without worrying about time
limits
> and sniping (although they might pay a little more).
>
> Dan
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@a...>
> To: "S-List" <S-Trains@y...>; "John Brockmann"
> <hcopter51@a...>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 7:13 PM
> Subject: Re: Fw: [S-Trains] RE: Cancelling auctions and a new site
>
>
> > If you really want the item, you might have to join in on the
bidding
> frenzy at the very end. The person who admitted to getting a rush
from
> shilling could maybe invite some friends over for a poker game
instead.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: John Brockmann
> > To: Tim Brown
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 5:27 PM
> > Subject: Re: Fw: [S-Trains] RE: Cancelling auctions and a new
site
> >
> >
> > What is a person to do? Dont you just love it when you place a
bid
> > that remains the high bid until one minute or so is left and
then the
> > bidding starts hot and heavy? I guess it all boils down to how
bad
> > you want an item as to how you bid on it. I must be naive to
think
> > that no-one would act with a seller in raising the price by
shilling.
> > Some auctions go on and on until there is one minute where
there is
> > no bidding at all, then the auction ends. Opinions? John B.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In S-Trains@y..., "Tim Brown" <Timboy@a...> wrote:
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Tim Brown
> > > To: robert allen conner
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 5:08 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] RE: Cancelling auctions and a new site
> > >
> > >
> > > I think running up the price on something just for the thrill
of it
> > is not a good thing to do - that's my opinion. If a person
doing
> > this can be tied to the seller, then that person is called a
shill.
> > Operating a shill is against ebay policy and can result in the
shill
> > and the seller being kicked off ebay. I'm not making any
> > accusations. I'm stating what I believe is ebay's policy for
the
> > edification of us all.
> > >
> > > As far as listing in your auction that you have the right to
cancel
> > the auction if you don't think the bidding is going high enough,
> > consider this: real-time auctions don't operate that way, to my
> > knowledge. Just because you put something in writing in your
auction
> > as your "rules" for your auction, doesn't necessarily make it
right.
> > >
> > > It's your auction. It's your hobby or business. It's your
> > ethics. It's also my option whether to do business with you or
not.
> > There are sellers on ebay I won't do business with because I
don't
> > like the way they do business. There are some I love to do
business
> > with and follow their auctions. I'm not making a stand one way
or
> > the other with your auctions.
> > >
> > > Why is it more fair to bid early than to bid at the last
second?
> > If you can't bid at the last second, when is the proper cutoff,
at
> > the next-to-last second, or 30 seconds before the end of the
auction,
> > or 1 minute... Where is that line?
> > >
> > > -Tim
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: robert allen conner
> > > To: S-Trains@y... ; bull_gator_1
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 2:40 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] RE: Cancelling auctions and a new
site
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't know the full story...But I have a note in my
AUCTIONS
> > that I
> > > reserve the right to cancel it if I am not happy with the
> > prices....I have
> > > sold many things at less than 1/4 of their value....I will
now
> > cancel an
> > > auction if I have a 1.00 bid on a 100.00 item if in the
last hour
> > nothing
> > > has happened for the 7 days it has run....When I bid, I bid
> > early, and for
> > > what I am willing to pay.....THATS THE FAIR WAY...I have on
> > occasions, for
> > > fun waited to the last few minutes to play games with
> > snipers.....seeing how
> > > much I can bid without getting the item.....Try that
game....its a
> > > RUSH....and yes I have gotten the item A couple of
times....but
> > in the long
> > > run I am ahead.....Bid early...Bid fair.....I am also
starting to
> > bid on A
> > > new site called BIDWAY....( the whoo didn't do anything for
me )
> > On this one
> > > you can make money....Go to my page and look at it
> > > http://rcon7.myoutlets.com ...If you like...fill in the
blanks a
> > you get a
> > > page like it FREE....Yes thats FREE....You can list items
for a
> > while FREE
> > > also...True its small...But its growing...Bob Conner
RCON7
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "bull_gator_1" <bull_gator_1@y...>
> > > To: <S-Trains@y...>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 2:03 PM
> > > Subject: [S-Trains] RE: eBay Cancellation
> > >
> > >
> > > > I found it interesting that this seller cancelled several
> > auctions at
> > > > the same time. All had starting prices at $9.95 and some
had
> > bids
> > > > over $60. The guy sells a lot of AF and currently has
over 65
> > items
> > > > listed and has a boatload of good feedback, so I don't
think
> > he's a
> > > > bad actor. There were also a couple of hours left to go
on
> > these
> > > > auctions and anyone familiar with eBay knows the bids
increase
> > > > dramatically in the last few minutes. If I checked the
going
> > prices
> > > > on my auctions two hours before they closed I'd probably
cancel
> > them
> > > > all! If not for the snipers I'd never turn a profit!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > > > All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
> > > >
> > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > > s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > > All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
> > >
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-
> > unsubscribe@Y...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
Group: S-Trains Message: 21695 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: roar vibrator part
In a message dated 11/6/2002 10:15:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jarcho@... writes:


> Maybe it is available, but Ihave never seen it.


If one is willing to sacrifice a vibrator tube for a No. 708, a similar part
is sometimes to be found there. Unfortunately, these vibrator armatures are
not always indentical in hole placement to those found in the diesels.

Bob Bubeck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21696 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Ebay extended auctions
Several years ago another auction site existed that had tons of
electronics, tools, housewares, outdoor items, jewelry, etc. The
auctions were set up to end at a specified time; however, if a bid
was received in the final 10 minutes, the end time was extended for
an additional 10 minutes unless another bid came in and so on and so
on. It was not uncommon for auctions to continue for several hours
after the original end time. Bidders would increase their bids by
the minimum increment just before the timer expired. This
automatically added 10 minutes to the timer. And just before that 10
minutes expired, someone else would bid and add another 10 minutes.
It appeared their philosphy was to extend the auction as long as
possible so the other bidders (their competition) would drop off
line. So just imaging sitting in front of your monitor watching that
rare item go up $5 every ten minutes! Wow - it's an hour later and
it's up a whole $30!! It was an extremely frustrating process. By
the way, that auction site no longer exists.

Remember it's impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are
creative.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21697 From: David Engle Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: #3336 completed (was 4-6-6-4 Challenger Project)
Who was the guy back in the 1960s who was chopping AF steam engines and
coming up with articulated beasts. I think he was inb the Mpls/St. Paul
area; He even got a smaller beauty by stretching a K-5 intoa 4-8-2.
Are any of those around today?
Group: S-Trains Message: 21698 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: #3336 completed (was 4-6-6-4 Challenger Project)
I sold a streched k5 boiler about a year ago....Look in pauls photos for a
pic of my 4-6-6-2 and 4-4-4-2...I still have packed away my 2-6-2 ( atlantic
with the front cut off and replaced with a pacific front and a k5 trailing
truck...the piolet truck was a modified 4 wheel atlantic pony...I used to
reall enjoy cutting up and redoing bak in the 80's...still have a couple
royal blues....going to become 4 8 2.....I have about 25 atlantics I was
going to convert...never got around to it...There was also A fellow near St.
Louis....He made A lot of conversions too...Nice fellow....He passed away
about 89...Bob Conner
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Engle" <ironhors@...>
To: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>; <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "S-Scale
List" <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "lbdrummer3" <lbdrummer3@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] #3336 completed (was 4-6-6-4 Challenger Project)


> Who was the guy back in the 1960s who was chopping AF steam engines and
> coming up with articulated beasts. I think he was inb the Mpls/St. Paul
> area; He even got a smaller beauty by stretching a K-5 intoa 4-8-2.
> Are any of those around today?
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21699 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Snipped again!!!
Well folks, it happened to me again this pm. Placed a bid with 5
minutes left and was high bidder on ebay.Then the snipper appeared
with less than 30 seconds and I was out bid by $2.50 and had no time
to bid again. Well, I bid my limit but I would have gone a little
higher had I had the time. Maybe I will be luckier next time.John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21700 From: John G Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: American Models K4 Pacific
My darling wife (also a Flyer fan!) wanted to know what I would like
for Xmas. To help her, I dug out the latest S Gaugian magazine to
look at the goodies. The American Models steamers Pennsy K4 Pacific
and the NYC Hudson caught my interest.

Does anybody know if these units work okay on standard Flyer track?
Will they stay stopped in a block with the standard 10 ohm "Bleed
resistor" that accessories like Cow on Track have?


Thanks

John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 21701 From: lb drummer3 Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: #3336 completed (was 4-6-6-4 Challenger Project)
Are those the pics in the s trains files section? I
saw a 4-6-6-2 and a 4-4-4-2 that someone did. That's
what inspired me to do my Challenger. I think that
guy used plastic engine shell maybe some 283's to do
his work.
I used 2 junker Hudsons and JB welded them together.
I'd be very interested in seeing what other have done,
gives me more ideas.

Fred
--- David Engle <ironhors@...> wrote:
> Who was the guy back in the 1960s who was chopping
> AF steam engines and
> coming up with articulated beasts. I think he was
> inb the Mpls/St. Paul
> area; He even got a smaller beauty by stretching a
> K-5 intoa 4-8-2.
> Are any of those around today?
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21702 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: #3336 completed (was 4-6-6-4 Challenger Project)
I am presently moving my train room around this month...when I get settled
down I will take it apart and photo it...I also have the photos, somewhere
on the one the guy from st. louis did....similar....the 4442 used 2
atlantics....the4662 used 2 plastic pacifics...I cut them on the bandsaw and
sanded them flush....plastic glue worked fine on them...Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "lb drummer3" <lbdrummer3@...>
To: "robert allen conner" <rcon7@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] #3336 completed (was 4-6-6-4 Challenger Project)


> Hey Robert, I used your engines as inspiration for
> building my project, I like that little 4-4-4-2 you
> did. Could you get me some detailed pics of how you
> made you pilots? I would like to make one for a Big
> Boy I'm planning.
> TTYL
> Fred
> --- robert allen conner <rcon7@...> wrote:
Group: S-Trains Message: 21703 From: Mike Vana Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Area 51 and Ebay auctions
Area 51 is in Nevada, north of Las Vegas, not
around Roswell, NM.

To answer the question, supposedly there is a
hobby shop with AF stuff in Albuquerque (don't
know the name). However, Albuquerque is probably
200 miles or so away from Roswell, as Mew Mexico
is a large state.

Regarding Ebay auctions, there is good reason to
have auctions for several days and bid anytime
during that time. First, we can't be by our
computers all the time ready to bid when an auction
closes. Second, not everyone has high speed
connections and can beat snipers at the last seconds
(or they don't have the software). Third, every one
should bid the maximum that they are willing to pay.
It's fun to win auctions, but it's sort of ridiculous
to pay more than something is worth just to get it.

There is one lesson that I have learned from Ebay. If
you miss something now, almost always more of the same
item will show up again and again, no matter how "rare"
someone claims it is. That especially applies to AF items.

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21704 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: American Models K4 Pacific
My AM Pacifics run fine on Flyer track. For backing through switches
you want the trackwork very level and the pivot hole for the rear truck
drilled out a tad so the struck can wobble enough to follow the changing
heights of rails and frogs when backing. I never thought about how
imprecise flyer switches were until I watched the rear truck not follow
the rails because the flanges couldn't drop into position. After taking
care of level and pivot hole they work fine.

I am ignorant of how the Hudson tracks but they are probably similar.

AM can motors are low current draw and will not stop for the
cow-on-track, semaphore, etc. on my layout. However, their electronic
reverse units start again in forward after a few seconds with power off,
so you're better off if you can modify the accessory so it turns track
power off. I haven't tried this because I also run standard Flyers. If
I want to use the cow on track, which my grandson loves, I merely run a
Flyer engine.

John G wrote:
>
> My darling wife (also a Flyer fan!) wanted to know what I would like
> for Xmas. To help her, I dug out the latest S Gaugian magazine to
> look at the goodies. The American Models steamers Pennsy K4 Pacific
> and the NYC Hudson caught my interest.
>
> Does anybody know if these units work okay on standard Flyer track?
> Will they stay stopped in a block with the standard 10 ohm "Bleed
> resistor" that accessories like Cow on Track have?
>
> Thanks
>
> John Gasal
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21705 From: eric.reis Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: Area 51 and Ebay auctions
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Vana [mailto:amflyer@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 5:12 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Ebay auctions

I have noticed a lot that when an item goes for an exceptionally high price
they seem to come out of the woodwork in the time afterward. Quite a few
times after being priced out of an item another 1 or 2 come along right
afterward as someone else is trying to get the same $ for theirs. I have
saved quite a bit by buying these later items.
Another question: How many have gotten emails after bidding on something
with an offer from someone else for the same thing only not quite as pricy.
I know this is against Ebay and I have not responded to them. I have
gotten about 4 or 5 in the last 6 months or so. I just wondered how big an
industry it is trying to sell to ebay bidders outside of Ebay.

Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa.

>There is one lesson that I have learned from Ebay. If
>you miss something now, almost always more of the same
>item will show up................
>
>Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21706 From: Don Thompson Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: SHS blatant advertising.
The container arrived today. It took about 5 days extra due to the
West Coast dock situation. The cargo included:
- 2002 Christmas Cars (still available)
- New 2 & 3 bay PS-2 covered hoppers
- Composite hoppers single and three car sets (PRR and LV single cars
are now sold out. Some three car sets are still available)
- Single boxes for F-units, both A & B's
- A-B-A boxes for F-units

On another note, the 2003 catalog went to the printers today. I am
hoping we can send these out around Thanksgiving.
Don


-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
2002 Christmas Car, 2 & 3 bay PS-2s & Composite hoppers are now
shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/3bayps2_in_stock.html
http://www.showcaseline.com/2bayps2_in_stock.html
http://www.showcaseline.com/CompositeHoppers/compositehoppers.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 21707 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: AF in TTRevue
Fellow Flyer fans:

Here's some light reading for your enjoyment:

http://www.toytrainrevue.com/flyer.htm

Have fun!

Bob Bubeck
Group: S-Trains Message: 21708 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: eBAy Area 51 and Ebay auctions
It doesn't take high speed connections and fancy software. Log on to ebay with two browser windows on the same auction open. Monitor one by refreshing the screen every 10 seconds or so. Meanwhile, on the other window, have your snipe bid entered in and to the point where one keystroke places it. Time your refresh on the one screen to give you about 5 seconds on the other screen to hit the enter key. It's your best shot at sniping.

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Vana
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 8:11 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Area 51 and Ebay auctions


Area 51 is in Nevada, north of Las Vegas, not
around Roswell, NM.

To answer the question, supposedly there is a
hobby shop with AF stuff in Albuquerque (don't
know the name). However, Albuquerque is probably
200 miles or so away from Roswell, as Mew Mexico
is a large state.

Regarding Ebay auctions, there is good reason to
have auctions for several days and bid anytime
during that time. First, we can't be by our
computers all the time ready to bid when an auction
closes. Second, not everyone has high speed
connections and can beat snipers at the last seconds
(or they don't have the software). Third, every one
should bid the maximum that they are willing to pay.
It's fun to win auctions, but it's sort of ridiculous
to pay more than something is worth just to get it.

There is one lesson that I have learned from Ebay. If
you miss something now, almost always more of the same
item will show up again and again, no matter how "rare"
someone claims it is. That especially applies to AF items.

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21709 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: American Models K4 Pacific
I believe all you have to do is disconnect the part that acts as a lock out eliminator from the accessory. I did that with my Sam, since I run on DC. Works fine.

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Smith
To: John G
Cc: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] American Models K4 Pacific


My AM Pacifics run fine on Flyer track. For backing through switches
you want the trackwork very level and the pivot hole for the rear truck
drilled out a tad so the struck can wobble enough to follow the changing
heights of rails and frogs when backing. I never thought about how
imprecise flyer switches were until I watched the rear truck not follow
the rails because the flanges couldn't drop into position. After taking
care of level and pivot hole they work fine.

I am ignorant of how the Hudson tracks but they are probably similar.

AM can motors are low current draw and will not stop for the
cow-on-track, semaphore, etc. on my layout. However, their electronic
reverse units start again in forward after a few seconds with power off,
so you're better off if you can modify the accessory so it turns track
power off. I haven't tried this because I also run standard Flyers. If
I want to use the cow on track, which my grandson loves, I merely run a
Flyer engine.

John G wrote:
>
> My darling wife (also a Flyer fan!) wanted to know what I would like
> for Xmas. To help her, I dug out the latest S Gaugian magazine to
> look at the goodies. The American Models steamers Pennsy K4 Pacific
> and the NYC Hudson caught my interest.
>
> Does anybody know if these units work okay on standard Flyer track?
> Will they stay stopped in a block with the standard 10 ohm "Bleed
> resistor" that accessories like Cow on Track have?
>
> Thanks
>
> John Gasal
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21710 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: Area 51 and Ebay auctions
Are you sure that practice is against ebay policy? I don't think it's any of ebay's business what transactions we do outside their auctions.

-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: eric.reis
To: amflyer@...
Cc: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 8:39 PM
Subject: RE: [S-Trains] Area 51 and Ebay auctions




-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Vana [mailto:amflyer@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 5:12 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Ebay auctions

I have noticed a lot that when an item goes for an exceptionally high price
they seem to come out of the woodwork in the time afterward. Quite a few
times after being priced out of an item another 1 or 2 come along right
afterward as someone else is trying to get the same $ for theirs. I have
saved quite a bit by buying these later items.
Another question: How many have gotten emails after bidding on something
with an offer from someone else for the same thing only not quite as pricy.
I know this is against Ebay and I have not responded to them. I have
gotten about 4 or 5 in the last 6 months or so. I just wondered how big an
industry it is trying to sell to ebay bidders outside of Ebay.

Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa.

>There is one lesson that I have learned from Ebay. If
>you miss something now, almost always more of the same
>item will show up................
>
>Mike Vana Omaha, NE.




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All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21711 From: Lance McCold Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Putt Thomas the Tank Engine
Has anyone handled the new Putt Trains Thomas set?

Certainly, nobody should complain about the price. does anybody have any experience with how it runs, etc?

Thanks,

Lance McCold
Group: S-Trains Message: 21712 From: Michael T Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: eBAy Area 51 and Ebay auctions
<<<<<<It doesn't take high speed connections and fancy software. Log
on to ebay with two browser windows on the same auction open.
Monitor one by refreshing the screen every 10 seconds or so.
Meanwhile, on the other window, have your snipe bid entered in and to
the point where one keystroke places it. Time your refresh on the
one screen to give you about 5 seconds on the other screen to hit the
enter key. It's your best shot at sniping.

-Tim>>>>>

Thats exactly what i do!! i thought it was my little secret, oh well.
now i have competition. I suppose it will add to the thrill of
eBaying.

-Michael T
Chicago, Illinois
Group: S-Trains Message: 21713 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: American Models K4 Pacific
That's fine if you're going to always use DC. If you also have regular
Flyer stuff on AC then you make a choice to use the accessory with AC or
DC, OR, design a switched circuit, maybe as simple as an on-off switch
in the lead to the lockout, to set it for either. I'm beginning to
think that those of us who run both AC and DC make out lives a little
more challenging.

Tim Brown wrote:
>
> I believe all you have to do is disconnect the part that acts as a lock out eliminator from the accessory. I did that with my Sam, since I run on DC. Works fine.
>
> -Tim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chuck Smith
> To: John G
> Cc: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 8:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] American Models K4 Pacific
>
> My AM Pacifics run fine on Flyer track. For backing through switches
> you want the trackwork very level and the pivot hole for the rear truck
> drilled out a tad so the struck can wobble enough to follow the changing
> heights of rails and frogs when backing. I never thought about how
> imprecise flyer switches were until I watched the rear truck not follow
> the rails because the flanges couldn't drop into position. After taking
> care of level and pivot hole they work fine.
>
> I am ignorant of how the Hudson tracks but they are probably similar.
>
> AM can motors are low current draw and will not stop for the
> cow-on-track, semaphore, etc. on my layout. However, their electronic
> reverse units start again in forward after a few seconds with power off,
> so you're better off if you can modify the accessory so it turns track
> power off. I haven't tried this because I also run standard Flyers. If
> I want to use the cow on track, which my grandson loves, I merely run a
> Flyer engine.
>
> John G wrote:
> >
> > My darling wife (also a Flyer fan!) wanted to know what I would like
> > for Xmas. To help her, I dug out the latest S Gaugian magazine to
> > look at the goodies. The American Models steamers Pennsy K4 Pacific
> > and the NYC Hudson caught my interest.
> >
> > Does anybody know if these units work okay on standard Flyer track?
> > Will they stay stopped in a block with the standard 10 ohm "Bleed
> > resistor" that accessories like Cow on Track have?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > John Gasal
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> --
> Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
> and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
>
> "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
> than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21714 From: jahoozdumm Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: AF in TTRevue
Great job, RB!


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21715 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: EBAY Sniping and Shilling
>You gave the impression there is nothing wrong with the above practice
>some sellers have on ebay 'cuz there is precedence in the real world.
>Either ebay allows it or they don't. How can they allow it for a while,
them >pull the plug? Where is the line?

>Your true position on this is illusive, I think.


Tim:
I am not the apologist for eBay. I simply stated that this is the way it
is, like it or not. There is nothing elusive about accepting reality at its
face value.

I did not put forth the idea that I liked auction cancellations, nor did I
indicate anything about their morality. I indicated that they were
apparently legal under the current rules and that arguments against them
that were based in the premise that there was no precedence in the live
auction world for such practices were spurious.

I also cautioned that e-Bay may take exception to overuse of the practice by
sellers who regularly cancel their auctions as a technique. Once again,
this was not my position, nor representative of my moral outlook. It was,
and still is, pretty much common sense.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21716 From: David Dewey Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Re: roar vibrator part
Dave,
Ah, I wish it were so, but the roar vibrator leaf is a different design,
and the leaf design definitely effects "roar" quality.
I once heard a nearly NOS roar unit, and it actually sounded like an
Alco, with that Rumble, rumba, rumble, rumba beat.
I like Tom J's description of them; "Gilbert Wife Repellent." Actually,
I think the original intention of the roar unit was; "Gilbert Adult
Repellent"!
IF there is a modern electronic roar unit, I wouldn't be against a wire
in/wire out type of modification! The Steamers have that nice "Choo-Choo"
unit, the diesels seem tame in comparison!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21717 From: David Dewey Date: 11/6/2002
Subject: Repro'd, Was eBay shilling, etc.
Er, Not excatly Chris. That's the "other" form of that contraction--the one
usually associated with tow trucks and midnite visits!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21718 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: The Lemax "Spooky Town"....on sale.
Well,...I couldn't resist,....the buildings were half off at Michaels,...couldn't pass on buying another
at $20.00!!!


Rick.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21719 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: EBAY Sniping and Shilling
Okay Chris,

In the end, it's up to us as individuals, our business reputation with other ebayers and our contract with ebay. I still choose to take the high road on auction cancellations, regardless of whether ebay may or may not condone it in the long run.

Sniping, on the other hand, is the way business is done these days. It doesn't appear that ebay has an interest in it one way or the other.

Thanks,
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Zizzo
To: Tim Brown ; slist
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 1:01 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: EBAY Sniping and Shilling


>You gave the impression there is nothing wrong with the above practice
>some sellers have on ebay 'cuz there is precedence in the real world.
>Either ebay allows it or they don't. How can they allow it for a while,
them >pull the plug? Where is the line?

>Your true position on this is illusive, I think.


Tim:
I am not the apologist for eBay. I simply stated that this is the way it
is, like it or not. There is nothing elusive about accepting reality at its
face value.

I did not put forth the idea that I liked auction cancellations, nor did I
indicate anything about their morality. I indicated that they were
apparently legal under the current rules and that arguments against them
that were based in the premise that there was no precedence in the live
auction world for such practices were spurious.

I also cautioned that e-Bay may take exception to overuse of the practice by
sellers who regularly cancel their auctions as a technique. Once again,
this was not my position, nor representative of my moral outlook. It was,
and still is, pretty much common sense.

Chris Zizzo



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All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21720 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: Repro'd, Was eBay shilling, etc.
>Er, Not excatly Chris. That's the "other" form of that contraction--the one
>usually associated with tow trucks and midnite visits!

Then did you mean "repo'd", the slang contraction for "repossessed", as in
the movie "Repo Man"? "Repro'd" I know as the slang contraction for
"reproduced". Mike Wolf could star in the movie "Repro Man"!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21721 From: David Dewey Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: Repro'd, should have been Repo'd--AAUGH!
My buddy Rick (the BBQ guy) kindly pointed out the error. We dyslexics do
come up with some funny boo-boo's sometimes. I actually looked at that word
at least three times thinking it didn't look quite right. Ah well. You heard
about the dyslexic punk rocker?
For three years he worshiped "Santa"
S'
David
PS Started raining last night, first since around May!!
Should be a run on wiper blades here!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21722 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: roar vibrator part
I have not fooled around with roar units in some years, except to operate them.

As I recall, the difference between tongues in the controllers and in the
roar unit is that the roar unit tongue had a triangular cutout in it. This
created two narrow points at the base of the triangle, near the weight at
the end. These weak points are where the tongue commonly snaps. If you
watch a roar unit in action, you can see that the stress placed on the
tongue is very great. In fact.,one wire had to be silver soldered to the
unit, so great was the vibration.

I had always assumed that the reason for the difference was that the two
oscillators were made by different suppliers. After all, this was a
standard automotive part in those days. Perhaps Senor Bubeck or some one
else would know more about this.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21723 From: splitdorf@1bigred.com Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: Putt Thomas the Tank Engine
> Has anyone handled the new Putt Trains Thomas set?
>
> Certainly, nobody should complain about the price. does anybody have any experience with how it runs, etc?


Lance,

I haven't handled a Thomas, but I did just build a Putt diesel switcher that appears to have the same chassis. A few observations:

The chassis is very well made and solid. Just about bullet proof.

The body parts all fit togther well.

It can run anywhere from dead slow to lightening fast. Much faster than is safe on most layouts. This is without a train, loco only.

Because of the light weight on the drivers and perhaps the high gearing, there is a lot of wheel slip when pulling a train. Pulling AF cars is the worst due to the high rolling resistance. Cars with modern wheelsets (AM or SHS) are much easier for it to pull, but still require a easy hand on the throttle. The Thomas cars are have 2 wheel trucks so that's a good bit less resistance.

It runs very quietly, except when the wheels spin, then there is a bit of extra noise.

The prices is right and overall I'm quite pleased with it.

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 21724 From: Mark Preman Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: American Flyer Trains and Other Stuff For Sale
The new list is posted with many of the expensive
items on sale to kick off the season. Thomas is coming
in next week as are the repro reproducers. I also have
in stock the Putt industrial switcher kits everyone
was talking about and...I have the new Souter
pictorial history of American Flyer Trains. You can
find it all at:
http://www.americanflyertrains.com

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

__________________________________________________
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U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21725 From: aglorince Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: train show pittsburgh
greenberg train show at monroe expo mart (east of pittsburgh)
nov 9-10 10am to 4 pm each day. i'll have my american models there.
lots of other s gauge dealers.

andy lorince
Group: S-Trains Message: 21726 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: AF in TTRevue
Hurry Up with the next edition, mine is getting tattered!!John B.


--- In S-Trains@y..., "jahoozdumm" <eighthmile@m...> wrote:
> Great job, RB!
>
>
> Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21727 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1638
E-NUF about E-bay and sniping.
Don't you people realize that E-Bay is a tool (or game) for sellers to
try to make as much out of an item as possible. Most E-Bay sellers have
several items of different categories ( most things they pick up at
garage sales for nothing) it just a game to make money (?), much like
the people who set in front of a slot machine, it is just some thing to
do and they get some pay back, these people spend there time at tag
sales and in front of a computer playing a game (of E-Bay). Yes you can
find some train items, it can be a rush, but if you get sniped, or pay
to much, and get stuck It's part of the game Don't you understand that.
Life is not fair (?), It's a game, enjoy it.

If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

I have sold items on E-Bay & purchased items on E-Bay, you get what you
can get, it's is a game, get a life and stop complain. If you want
excellent trains, go to a hobby shop or train show for a one on one
purchases and see what you are buying and at what price.

Let us get back to talking trains and let E-Bay sour grapes go there way,
If you got sniped, or paid to much, or some one out bit you by $0.25 so
be it, let it go. If you have a train and a place to run it be
thankful, GO RUN IT.

Jerry 77-11644

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Group: S-Trains Message: 21728 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Thanks for the help
Carl T, Tom J and Vin K

Thanks for the help with wiring diagrams for the 21145. They helped me
discover the wiring was right but the reversing unit was bad, so rewired
it for DC. After finding a good reverser I changed it back to AC today
and it runs like a champ. Wanted to restore this loco to original and
I'm pleased.

Ironically, when we're running it on the modular layout I'll have to
lock reverse out anyway because I can't take a chance on an abrupt
reversal with a long train while we're distracted by spectators.

This is one of those motors that runs noticeably faster on AC than on DC
for no apparent reason. I think it may have something to do with the
ratings on the bridge rectifier. Earlier I thought it had to do with
whether you put the DC side of the rectifier on the armature, so on this
one I was careful to put the DC side on the field, so that's not it.



--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21729 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: 2 step reverse units
Carl T, Tom J and Vin K

Thanks for the help with wiring diagrams for the 21145. They helped me
discover the wiring was right but the reversing unit was bad, so rewired
it for DC. After finding a good reverser I changed it back to AC today
and it runs like a champ. Wanted to restore this loco to original and
I'm pleased.

Ironically, when we're running it on the modular layout I'll have to
lock reverse out anyway because I can't take a chance on an abrupt
reversal with a long train while we're distracted by spectators.

This is one of those motors that runs noticeably faster on AC than on DC
for no apparent reason. I think it may have something to do with the
ratings on the bridge rectifier. Earlier I thought it had to do with
whether you put the DC side of the rectifier on the armature, so on this
one I was careful to put the DC side on the field, so that's not it.



jarcho@... wrote:
>
> Chuck: there is a wiring diagram in the May-June '92 S Gaugian Roundhouse.
> Or send me your postal address and I will mail you a copy.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21730 From: Scott Holm Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1638
--- Gerald R Dobbs <grdobbs@...> wrote:
>... or some one out bit you by $0.25

Actually a Quarter would be two bits. :)


__________________________________________________
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http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
Group: S-Trains Message: 21731 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: roar vibrator part
Dave,
Obviously, you have never heard my 371 grind its way around a layout. Must
be way past needing bushings, definitely know when it is coming.
Jim Lyle, "livin' on the Keystone Main"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21732 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: GATS show in Pomona Ca
Is anyone from the group going to the GATA show this weekend? I'll
have my Challenger there in hopes of finding an S gauge modular
layout so I can get some really good pics of it in action. I would
like to maybe meet up with any of you folks that can make it.

Fred
Group: S-Trains Message: 21733 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: GATS show in Pomona Ca/ CAL STEWART
Hi Fred,
Won't be at GATS , But will be at TTOS in Pasadena for Cal
Stewart this Sat. & Sun. They have a couple of S layouts there & (IMO) more
Flyer & "S" than at GATS. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21734 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Photos in album
I would like to reach "jfred" who has photos in the albums including
photos of pages showing various layouts. Where did these pages come
from? Thanks,John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21735 From: Gerry Evans Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: More House Cleaning
I thought I'd let someone else take a crack at building a craftsman kit. Little risk; high reward and pride. Here are some kits that have gathered dust too long in my garage. None of these comes with couplers. Only one comes with trucks. I have examined each of these kits, and, unless noted, I honestly think all kits are complete. All kits include instruction sheets.

This first item I'd rather sell as a six-item set for obvious reasons. These six are all Chester aluminum-sided streamliners with wooden floors and roof pieces. All except the last item in the list are still boxed in the original packaging.

85' Diner, missing 1 end piece, 2 wheel skirt extensions, 2 spacers. This kit was obviously cannibalized for parts.
85' Baggage car, looks NIB but not sure
60' Chair car NIB
60' Observation/lounge car NIB
60' Dining car NIB
60' Chair car, no box, includes one extra uncorreguated door
Price: $100 plus $8 shipping for all six.

Bob Peare 50-ton steel box car, GAEX, NIB $15 plus $3 shipping
Bob Peare 50-ton steel box car, Bangor & Aroostook, body built, sides and ends attached $15 plus $3 shipping
Bob Peare 50-ton steel box car, B&O, NIB $15 plus $3 shipping
Bob Peare 50-ton steel box car, Erie, NIB $15 plus $3 shipping
Bob Peare 50-ton steel box car, MoPac Merchandise Service, body built $15 plus $3 shipping
Shipping price adjusted for multiple purchases.

Some may not be familiar with Peare kits. The basic construction is a wooden "box" with pressed and embossed sides, ends, and doors. In addition, the kits include roof walks, ladders, grabs, roof walk end supports, brake wheel, and other assorted goodies to detail the sides, ends, and under body.

Midgauge 40 ft. freight reefer, Soo Line, with trucks, NIB. This is a really nice kit with wooden reefer sides. The kit was totally untouched until I opened two of the detail sacks to make sure the complete truck assemblies were there. It also includes many, many detail parts. One of the nicest kits I've ever seen. $30 plus $3 shipping.

Two (2) Quality craft QS-1 Rotary Coal Cars, GSCX, NIB. Quality Craft kits require great patience. $15/kit plus $3 shipping/kit or $3 if you buy both.

Contact me off-list if you would like to try your hand at building a craftsman kit.

Gerry Evans
cujoacat@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21736 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: CAL STEWART
Anyone going to Cal Stewart this weekend? Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21737 From: Steven Salaway Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: GATS show in Pomona Ca
Hi Fred,
I'm planning to be there on Sat. Will stop by and introduce myself.
Steve S.
CoastFlyer


> [Original Message]
> From: lbdrummer3 <lbdrummer3@...>
> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: 11/7/02 4:26:43 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] GATS show in Pomona Ca
>
> Is anyone from the group going to the GATA show this weekend? I'll
> have my Challenger there in hopes of finding an S gauge modular
> layout so I can get some really good pics of it in action. I would
> like to maybe meet up with any of you folks that can make it.
>
> Fred
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21738 From: JConn444@aol.com Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: eBay vs. S gauge
This is my first e-mail. I joined the list to learn about S-Gauge not to hear
people complaining about eBay. I agree lets get back to trains. John


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21739 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: roar vibrator part
In a message dated 11/7/2002 9:36:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, jarcho@...
writes:


> As I recall, the difference between tongues in the controllers and in the
> roar unit is that the roar unit tongue had a triangular cutout in it. This
> created two narrow points at the base of the triangle, near the weight at
> the end. These weak points are where the tongue commonly snaps. If you
> watch a roar unit in action, you can see that the stress placed on the
> tongue is very great. In fact, one wire had to be silver soldered to the
> unit, so great was the vibration.
>
Brother Tom has it correct. If one elects to open up a 708 tube (either
Gilbert's or a generic 6v power supply vibrator) one is subject to surprise
as to which type of armature is inside (kinda like a Cracker Jack box). Most
Gilberts will be solid, as Tom says, but sometimes it has the triangular
cutout. In the past I have taken solid ones to a local machine shop to have
the triangle cut, but this is not an easy job because the tongue is made of
hardened shim steel. BTW, I do NOT open good working tubes, but only ones
that are in need of regapping to function.

This piece is a good candidate for repro. I think that the roar in the Alcos
is often rather good in a postwar sort of way. My 1956 NH PAs have an
"excellent" sounding roar -- the Alco shells are a better baffle than the GP
bodies in which the Diesel Roar usually sounds like a maniacal alarm clock.

Bob Bubeck



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21740 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Fact or Urban legend?
The boys on the OGR forum are discussing the K-Line "S" rumor at..

http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=63160042&f=57660482&m=9656071951


Carl
Group: S-Trains Message: 21741 From: Tom Pennington Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: What is this? (on eBay)
Was looking thru eBay and found this cute item.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1783758876

Is this an HO accessory? Never saw or heard of this one before (not that
I'm an expert).
Something new or unusual always seems to turn up. Is this thing
rare? starting bid is
only $25.00. If anyone can identify, please enlighten us. Thanks, Tom

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21742 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: GATS in Cincinnati
Hi All,
My wife and I will be at the Cincy GATS show. We will also have two starter
sets from S-Helper. (Thanks Don and Robin) We have sold 2 starter sets at the
last Indy and Dayton Shows In 3 weekends. I hope Cincy goes as well. If your
at the show, look for the Christmas Layout with S-Gauge Trains. CB the
Trainnut


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21743 From: hgetrain Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: Fact or Urban legend?
-
This is an interesting forum and there are a surprising number of
posts which mention S Gauge. I have a feeling that if any of the "big
boys" were to enter S in a serious way, many O Gaugers who have
admired S from a distance would give our gauge a try. The K-Line
people were dropping hints about doing something in S Gauge at York,
but no specifics other than to watch the 2003 Toy Fair.

Harry Eberhardt


-- In S-Trains@y..., Carl Tuveson <carl@w...> wrote:
> The boys on the OGR forum are discussing the K-Line "S" rumor at..
Group: S-Trains Message: 21744 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/7/2002
Subject: Re: What is this? (on eBay)
In a message dated 11/7/2002 9:29:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tjpennington@... writes:


> Was looking thru eBay and found this cute item.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1783758876
>
> Is this an HO accessory?


Yes. For example look on page 21 of D-2267, the 1961-62 catalog.

RB


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21745 From: David Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Re: What is this? (on eBay)
Thats Gilberts HO version of the oil drum loader. Its not by any mean
rare or scarce. Its worth about $80 tops so someone is already into
it way over its value. Typical for E-Bay.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21746 From: Gerry Evans Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Fw: [S-Scale] More House Cleaning
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerry Evans" <cujoacat@...>
Subject: [S-Scale] More House Cleaning

The following offered for sale are gone:6 Chester streamliners, 2 Quality
Craft Rotary Coal Cars, Midgauge freight reefer, and Peare MoPac box car.

> Gerry Evans
> cujoacat@...
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> To see or post Photos visit
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
> or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
> To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21747 From: Rhett T. George Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Oversize S
- Greeting*S* -

A day o rtwo ago one of the list members asked about a modeler of many
years ago who built stylized freight trains which emphasized massiveness
by havind almost 0-scale bodies on American Flyer mechanisms and trucks.
I believe that modeler was Francis Lee Jacques. MR featured his railroad
decades ago.

Cheer*S*
Rhett
Group: S-Trains Message: 21748 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Complaints
The other day I saw that this list was loaded with posts about GATS shows.
I have no interest there, so I scanned them quickly and moved through the
list like crap through a goose. One day, I ended up deleting the whole
digest because my quickie scan showed there was nothing of interest there
for me that day.

I did not complain that I did not like the content, nor did I complain that
everyone was talking about GATS shows instead of about trains. A GATS show
is not a train. It's a train market, kind of like, hmmmm, I don't know . .
. maybe . . . E-Bay! Yeah, that's it. Talking about GATS or York or S-Fest
or NASG or E-Bay isn't strictly talking about trains. But it's all part of
the train thing. If you don't like it, just slide on past. And I promise I
won't complain about your favorite subjects either.

"Why can't we all just get along?" - Rodney King

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21749 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Oversized S
Rhett:
Is that the guy who built those Daylight steamers; big, heavy metal things?
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21750 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Complaints
The other day I saw that this list was loaded with posts about GATS shows.
I have no interest there, so I scanned them quickly and moved through the
list like crap through a goose. One day, I ended up deleting the whole
digest because my quickie scan showed there was nothing of interest there
for me that day.

I did not complain that I did not like the content, nor did I complain that
everyone was talking about GATS shows instead of about trains. A GATS show
is not a train. It's a train market, kind of like, hmmmm, I don't know . .
. maybe . . . E-Bay! Yeah, that's it. Talking about GATS or York or S-Fest
or NASG or E-Bay isn't strictly talking about trains. But it's all part of
the train thing. If you don't like it, just slide on past. And I promise I
won't complain about your favorite subjects either.

"Why can't we all just get along?" - Rodney King

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21751 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Oversized S
Rhett:
Is that the guy who built those Daylight steamers; big, heavy metal things?
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21752 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Complaints
The other day I saw that this list was loaded with posts about GATS shows.
I have no interest there, so I scanned them quickly and moved through the
list like crap through a goose. One day, I ended up deleting the whole
digest because my quickie scan showed there was nothing of interest there
for me that day.

I did not complain that I did not like the content, nor did I complain that
everyone was talking about GATS shows instead of about trains. A GATS show
is not a train. It's a train market, kind of like, hmmmm, I don't know . .
. maybe . . . E-Bay! Yeah, that's it. Talking about GATS or York or S-Fest
or NASG or E-Bay isn't strictly talking about trains. But it's all part of
the train thing. If you don't like it, just slide on past. And I promise I
won't complain about your favorite subjects either.

"Why can't we all just get along?" - Rodney King

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21753 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Oversized S
Rhett:
Is that the guy who built those Daylight steamers; big, heavy metal things?
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21754 From: colleenandrob Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Whistle fo AF 326 Hudson?
Hello,

I just picked up a 326 Hudson in terrific shape. It was the engine I
had as a kid and I'm very pleased. My question has to do with the
whistle in the tender. I have the whistle control box and wired it
correctly to the track. When I hit the button I get a sound more
like a diesel horn than a steam whistle. I can't remember how it
used to sound as a kid and maybe that's the normal sound it makes.
Any incite on this from anyone?

Thanks,

Rob
Group: S-Trains Message: 21755 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Re: Whistle fo AF 326 Hudson?
If it was the vibrator type whistle, you may have the diesel
oscillator. There were "air chime" steam whistle and diesel oscillators
that plug into the control box. The oscillator tube that plugs into
your controller should be labeled.

It probably did sound better to you as a kid.

colleenandrob wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I just picked up a 326 Hudson in terrific shape. It was the engine I
> had as a kid and I'm very pleased. My question has to do with the
> whistle in the tender. I have the whistle control box and wired it
> correctly to the track. When I hit the button I get a sound more
> like a diesel horn than a steam whistle. I can't remember how it
> used to sound as a kid and maybe that's the normal sound it makes.
> Any incite on this from anyone?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rob
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21756 From: lbdrummer3 Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Re complaints
I agree with you Chris, if you don't want to read it, delete it. If
my posting a thread about the GATS show in my area so I could maybe
meet up with some of the groups members was a bad thing or considered
off topic, too bad, I don't see it that way. The topic of this group
is American Flyer and the GATS or any other show is a place where
American Flyer items are bought and sold just like ebay. Isn't that
considered on topic since the subject deals with American Flyer
trains...
My .02 cents
Fred
Group: S-Trains Message: 21757 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Oversized S
Rhett:
Is that the guy who built those Daylight steamers; big, heavy metal things?
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21758 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Complaints
The other day I saw that this list was loaded with posts about GATS shows.
I have no interest there, so I scanned them quickly and moved through the
list like crap through a goose. One day, I ended up deleting the whole
digest because my quickie scan showed there was nothing of interest there
for me that day.

I did not complain that I did not like the content, nor did I complain that
everyone was talking about GATS shows instead of about trains. A GATS show
is not a train. It's a train market, kind of like, hmmmm, I don't know . .
. maybe . . . E-Bay! Yeah, that's it. Talking about GATS or York or S-Fest
or NASG or E-Bay isn't strictly talking about trains. But it's all part of
the train thing. If you don't like it, just slide on past. And I promise I
won't complain about your favorite subjects either.

"Why can't we all just get along?" - Rodney King

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21759 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, November 10, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page http://s-scale.org/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21760 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Faulty Keyboard
Hey Chris - is your POST button sticking????
Group: S-Trains Message: 21761 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Re: Complaints
> Hey, I received this e-mail 3 times right in a row. Any idea why? I'm
not
> upset mind you, just wondering why it came 3 times.

Sorry about the multiple posts everybody. Something went wrong in my e-mail
program and it kept telling me there was an error. The mail stayed in my
outbox and was never sent (or so I thought) so I kept trying and finally
gave up. I thought none of it ever went out!

Surprise! Another way computers are working to make our lives better!

CZ
Group: S-Trains Message: 21762 From: Steve Blancard Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Connecting a highway flasher
I run 2 seperate transformers on my layout, one for trains the other for
accessories. I want to install a 760 highway flasher using two 696
track trips. The instructions show connections from the 15 volt
transformer terminal to the flasher to the trips.

In my case I want to power the trips from the accesspry transformer, not
the train transformer that the track trips would normally get power
from. I already have accessory power distributed around the layout and
don't want to run wires back to the train transformer unless I have to.


My question is - can I connect the base posts of both transformers
together so the flasher gets 15 volts from the accessory transformer and
then uses the rail as a return to the base post by way of the train
transformer?

This is kind of hard to explain, but I hope you understand what I'm
getting at.

Thanks,
Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 21763 From: Dan Brindell Date: 11/8/2002
Subject: Re: What is this? (on eBay)
The box says "Auto-Rama" and shows the "kegs" falling into a pickup truck,
not a train. I believe that Auto-Rama was Gilbert's name for their slot
cars. So could this be an accessory for an Gilbert slot car set?

Dan Brindell

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Pennington" <tjpennington@...>
To: "S-Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 9:28 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] What is this? (on eBay)


> Was looking thru eBay and found this cute item.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1783758876
>
> Is this an HO accessory? Never saw or heard of this one before (not that
> I'm an expert).
> Something new or unusual always seems to turn up. Is this thing
> rare? starting bid is
> only $25.00. If anyone can identify, please enlighten us. Thanks,
Tom
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21764 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] Complaints
Oops! This was supposed to go to the list also,...if it already did,...forgive me! :-)


**(( If you don't like it, just slide on past. And I promise I
won't complain about your favorite subjects either.)))**


Exactly Chris!! I said basically the same thing quite a while back!!
They are ALL sorts of topics here that don't mean a hill of beans to me,...they
do to someone though!

BTW,...I got quite a few double posts from ya Chris. Yahoo at it's best? :-)


Rick.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21765 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: On30 North Pole Express...
Picked up my Bachmann On30 North Pole Express today that I had on layaway.
Will look great around the tree this Christmas,....But, I'll need to start early to see
how I'm gonna squeeze three trains around the tree this year!!


Rick.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21766 From: John G Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: Re: Connecting a highway flasher
Steve

Yes, you can wire the base posts together like you described. That's
how my layout is set up.

I would recommend you phase the transformers if you do this. See:

http://www.portlines.com/portlinesclinic5.htm

John Gasal

>
> My question is - can I connect the base posts of both transformers
> together so the flasher gets 15 volts from the accessory
transformer and then uses the rail as a return to the base post by
way of the train transformer?
>
> This is kind of hard to explain, but I hope you understand what I'm
> getting at.
>
> Thanks,
> Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 21767 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: 1/64 vehicles on sale
I dropped by Target yesterday and found the Racing Champions Muscle &
Concept 1/64 vehicles on sale for $1.00 each. Other Racing Champion
1/64 vehicles were on sale for $1.50 each. Regular prices were
$1.99 - $3.99. I picked up all that were within my time period
(prior to 1965). I then went to another Target and found the same
prices, although they were still marked at the higher prices with no
mention of a sale. Luckily there was price scanner nearby so I could
pick and chose then scan before heading for the check out. So if you
go and don't see a sale sign just scan them.

BTW, I don't work for Target - I just shop for cars there :-)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21768 From: Jim Armstrong Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: Docksider again
OK, I've got my 21158 Docksider running. Wow, it is a speedy little
darter!! My thanks to folks here on the thread. But I have a couple of
residual questions. Was this loco intended to be run on DC (no reversing
unit evident)? And was there supposed to be some kind of weight in the
thing (it's awfully light on its feet, spinning its wheels at the least
hint of an excuse)? JimA
Group: S-Trains Message: 21769 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: 3-trains around the tree?
Rick,

I have a solution as to how to get three trains around your tree - - Put
up another tree! We had 3 last year. One had a battery "toy" train with
smoke in the tree, the main tree has a loop of Flyer and O31, then I put
some Marx around the other. Gotta admit, though, it was like an indoor
forest.

Happy Holidays! They're coming!

Bill

________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 21770 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: Re: Docksider again
I own the 21158 blue version of the docksider which came with no reverse
unit, a non-opening coupler on the rear and no front coupler. To
reverse add a rectifier to the field and run DC or get a 2 step reverse
unit. If you want to keep it original, leave it alone. If you do add
reverse, add a front coupler also and you're set for some switching or
simply running cab forward.

Jim Armstrong wrote:
>
> OK, I've got my 21158 Docksider running. Wow, it is a speedy little
> darter!! My thanks to folks here on the thread. But I have a couple of
> residual questions. Was this loco intended to be run on DC (no reversing
> unit evident)? And was there supposed to be some kind of weight in the
> thing (it's awfully light on its feet, spinning its wheels at the least
> hint of an excuse)? JimA
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21771 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: PUTT/Rex 0-4-0 docksider
I was putting it to the test last night. It seems to
run fine on S-31 track (four All-Aboard corner
panels). It smokes well, has directional headlights
and four step (electronic) reverse. Today I had it
pulling 9 cars on that small loop, any more and it
could push as well as pull (yes, it can push them as
well). The Rex body PUTT used seems to have the weight
to make it run (and pull) well.
It seems people on this list are after BIG steam, but
here's a small steamer for those of you that don't
have a lot of space.

jfred


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
Group: S-Trains Message: 21772 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: Paul....Heres what I got at the meet
Paul....Sorry you had to work all day....I went to the meet today....heres
what I found....

1. 322 sit 47 version
2. 314aw really nice
3. 312 sit 47 version nice but missing 1 cowcatcher step
4. 312 sit 47 version nice but missing 1 cowcatcher step
5. 6 really nice cars box and stock
7. 1 nice 47 floodlight car
8. drum roll please ... 1 1947 #342 (not 342DC) But dc powered with SMOKE IN
TENDER...real nice but has a small scratch on 1 side of the tender where
another engine rubbed it...not into lettering...could be touched up but I am
just going to leave as is...

Strange part about the 322...from all aspects it is A 1947...boiler motor
sit unit etc....but it has A 1948 brass weight on the tender...looks
original...all of the items are really nice....

You never know what will turn up at meets...Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 21773 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: Hallmark's Harley 1958 FL-Duo-Glide
Hallmark has the new Harley Keepsake ornament out. Looks good!!
This is the third Hallmark Harley that I have bought. Just un-screw the little
wire loop thingie, <<for hanging>>, and it's all set for your layout!!

Rick.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21774 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: Re: Hallmark's Harley 1958 FL-Duo-Glide
**((Hallmark has the new Harley Keepsake ornament out. Looks good!!
This is the third Hallmark Harley that I have bought. Just un-screw the little
wire loop thingie, <<for hanging>>, and it's all set for your layout!!))**

I forgot to mention,..I scanned a pic of it, will email to those that want a look see!

Rick.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21775 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: Allentown PA meet
Guys and gals,
One day left to attend "First Frost" meet at the Allentown Fairgrounds,
Ag Hall.
Lots of Flyer, all vintages and conditions. Open Sunday from 9 AM til 3 PM,
admission is $5.00 adults.
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21776 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: Not much AF on ebay...
I haven't been looking for Flyer on ebay for a while now,...too busy checking the bass guitar auctions....
and I really don't need, nor have the room right now for more Flyer (can't believe I said that!)...
just checked out the Flyer auctions,...only SIX pages!! Used to be quite a few more ! You guys been
buying it all??


Rick.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21777 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: Yep! There is a lot of AF on ebay!!
OK,...figured it out. Ebay musta changed somethin' again,...I always click on "Ending First"...only showed six pages,...
clicked on current and found 27 pages. I don't remember it that way before!

Rick.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21778 From: John Bandstra Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: Faster on AC than DC
Chuck Smith wrote

... This is one of those motors that runs noticeably
faster on AC than on DC for no apparent reason. I
think it may have something to do with the ratings on
the bridge rectifier. Earlier I thought it had to do
with whether you put the DC side of the rectifier on
the armature, so on this one I was careful to put the
DC side on the field, so that's not it.

Chuck, there is typically a .7 volt drop across a
rectifier. A full wave bridge rectifier has two
rectifiers working at a time. This leaves the motor
with 1.4 volts less when ran on DC than when on AC at
the same track voltage setting.

John Bandstra


__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21779 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/9/2002
Subject: Speaking of a 322
I have a 322 sit from 1946. What is this brass button on the bottom I
keep hearing about that identifies it as a 46 version? Please advise.
Thanks,John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21780 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: GILBRT /FLYER HO SET
Anyone know anything about a Gilbert HO set #140 It has a #5318 NYC 4-6-4
SIT Tended has New York Central written on it's side. Comes with Bakelite HO
track Has a white boxcar MDT 124 The caboose # is131 tank # 125 #127 T&P
gon. Anyone with a guide please let me know about it. Or anyone that just
knows about it please contact me on ( If No one minds) Or off list Mike S.
PS: It was a great day at Cal Stewart. Will be back there tomorrow
as far as prices I picked up 2 336's & a 4713 ABA set w/cars & a E+ 21004


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21781 From: Gerry Evans Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: WORM
I have a piece of mail on my PC this AM that my filter tells me contains a worm. The mail is from a Scott Brown. Oddly, this piece of mail is showing as being generated on the S-Trains list. Since I only subscribe to the digest on the S-Trains list, I don't know how this particular piece slipped through as a single item. Since I didn't open the mail, I don't know to whom it was addressed, me as and individual or the whole list.

Just thought you'd like to know about this and try to avoid any problems. God knows the S community doesn't need any more problems.

Gerry Evans
In Flagstaff


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21782 From: eric.reis Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: Re: WORM
I got 2 notices from 2 emails that came within minutes from the sender.
Norton Anti-virus quarantined them but could not fix them. Mine came in
from Tim Brown about 8 PM Pacific Saturday eve. I didn't delve into this one
but it could be another of those worms that gets into an email contacts list
and sends itself out to random contacts and lists the from as other random
contacts.

eric reis
Kenmore, Wa.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerry Evans [mailto:cujoacat@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 7:00 AM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com; S-Scale@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] WORM

I have a piece of mail on my PC this AM that my filter tells me contains
a worm. The mail is from a Scott Brown. Oddly, this piece of mail is showing
as being generated on the S-Trains list. Since I only subscribe to the
digest on the S-Trains list, I don't know how this particular piece slipped
through as a single item. Since I didn't open the mail, I don't know to whom
it was addressed, me as and individual or the whole list.

Just thought you'd like to know about this and try to avoid any
problems. God knows the S community doesn't need any more problems.

Gerry Evans
In Flagstaff


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Group: S-Trains Message: 21783 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: worm
Maybe this has something to do with those blank emails I posted about.

Maybe, perhaps, though not probably, it could even be the cause of the
glitch in Chris's mail program.

Could it be that this worm is incompetemt, or semi competent? Has a few
errors in it? Could that be why Norton can't destroy it?

In that case, what should we call it? Any suggestions?

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21784 From: srgriggs Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: Re: Fact or Urban legend?
--- In S-Trains@y..., Carl Tuveson <carl@w...> wrote:
> The boys on the OGR forum are discussing the K-Line "S" rumor at..
>
> http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?
a=tpc&s=63160042&f=57660482&m=9656071951
>
>
> Carl

I've thought for a while now (since MTH brought out its RailKing
line) that the trend toward undersized O gauge equipment represents a
perfect opportunity for a manufacturer to enter the S gauge market.
Gilbert showed the way before WWII with 3/16 O gauge. The prewar
Gilbert is, in many ways, more attractive than the "Bantam" RailKing
PRR turbine and N&W J-class type locomotives because it is sleek and
well-proportioned. The market for entry-level O27 engines is brutal
(Big Boys and Challengers for $500, 4-8-4's for $250, etc). Just
think of the cost advantage a manufacturer would enjoy if they could
spread the investment for die cast boiler and tender tooling over O27
*and* S gauge volumes. I believe this may be what K-Line is up to.

Scott
Group: S-Trains Message: 21785 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, November 10, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page http://s-scale.org/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21786 From: Tom Pennington Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: Re: worm
The virus in question was the W32.BugBear@mm virus. I also received it
from Tim Brown, though he is unlikely to be the source.
The following is from the Norton web site. If you want the full details
plus a link to a removal tool, use the following link:
http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.bugbear@...
This one is a bad boy, you should check your system
and make sure your anti-virus is up to date.

====================================================================================================
NOTE: Due to an increased rate of submissions, Symantec Security Response
has upgraded this threat from a Category 3 to a Category 4 as of October 2,
2002.

W32.Bugbear@mm is a mass-mailing worm. It can also spread through network
shares. It has keystroke-logging and backdoor capabilities. The worm also
attempts to terminate the processes of various antivirus and firewall programs.

Because the worm does not properly handle the network resource types, it
may flood shared printer resources, which causes them to print garbage or
disrupt their normal functionality.

It is written in the Microsoft Visual C++ 6 programming language and is
compressed with UPX v0.76.1-1.22.


Damage

* Payload:
o Large scale e-mailing: Attemps to mass-mail to addresses
harvested from a compromised host using it's own SMTP engine
o Compromises security settings: May allow unauthorized access to
compromised machines. Attempts to terminate processes of various antivirus
and firewall programs.

Distribution

* Subject of email: Variable
* Name of attachment: Variable, with double extension ending in .exe,
.scr, or .pif
* Size of attachment: 50,688 bytes
* Ports: 36794
* Shared drives: Attempts to connect to available network resources

*

technical details

When W32.Bugbear@mm runs, it does the following:

It copies itself as %system%\????.exe, where ? represents letters that are
chosen by the worm.

NOTE: %system% is a variable. The worm locates the System folder and copies
itself to that location. By default this is C:\Windows\System (Windows
95/98/Me), C:\Winnt\System32 (Windows NT/2000), or C:\Windows\System32
(Windows XP).

It copies itself to the \Startup folder as ???.exe, where ? represents
letters that are chosen by the worm. For example,

* It may copy itself as C:\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup\Cuu.exe
when it runs on a Windows 95/98/Me-based system
* It may copy itself as C:\Documents and Settings\<current user name>\Start
Menu\Programs\Startup\Cti.exe when it runs on a Windows NT/2000/XP-based
system.


It creates three encrypted .dll files in the %system% folder and two
encrypted .dat files in the %windir% folder. One of the files contains a
password required to establish connection with the backdoor component.
Another dropped .dll file is used by the worm to install hook procedures
into a hook chain to monitor the system for any keyboard messages. The
keyboard hook procedures process the messages and pass the hook information
to the next hook procedure in the current hook chain. The installed .dll is
5,632 bytes in size and is detected by Symantec antivirus product as
PWS.Hooker.Trojan.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21787 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: Re: WORM
Hi,

I run Norton and am free of all virus. Just because the note says it came from me doesn't mean a thing. That's part of the diabolical thing about a virus attack.

-Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: eric.reis
To: Gerry Evans ; S-Trains@yahoogroups.com ; S-Scale@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 1:14 PM
Subject: RE: [S-Trains] WORM


I got 2 notices from 2 emails that came within minutes from the sender.
Norton Anti-virus quarantined them but could not fix them. Mine came in
from Tim Brown about 8 PM Pacific Saturday eve. I didn't delve into this one
but it could be another of those worms that gets into an email contacts list
and sends itself out to random contacts and lists the from as other random
contacts.

eric reis
Kenmore, Wa.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerry Evans [mailto:cujoacat@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 7:00 AM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com; S-Scale@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] WORM

I have a piece of mail on my PC this AM that my filter tells me contains
a worm. The mail is from a Scott Brown. Oddly, this piece of mail is showing
as being generated on the S-Trains list. Since I only subscribe to the
digest on the S-Trains list, I don't know how this particular piece slipped
through as a single item. Since I didn't open the mail, I don't know to whom
it was addressed, me as and individual or the whole list.

Just thought you'd like to know about this and try to avoid any
problems. God knows the S community doesn't need any more problems.

Gerry Evans
In Flagstaff


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21788 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: Re: worm
My Norton antivirus is updated daily. No problems here.

-Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Pennington
To: jarcho@... ; S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] worm


The virus in question was the W32.BugBear@mm virus. I also received it
from Tim Brown, though he is unlikely to be the source.
The following is from the Norton web site. If you want the full details
plus a link to a removal tool, use the following link:
http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.bugbear@...
This one is a bad boy, you should check your system
and make sure your anti-virus is up to date.

====================================================================================================
NOTE: Due to an increased rate of submissions, Symantec Security Response
has upgraded this threat from a Category 3 to a Category 4 as of October 2,
2002.

W32.Bugbear@mm is a mass-mailing worm. It can also spread through network
shares. It has keystroke-logging and backdoor capabilities. The worm also
attempts to terminate the processes of various antivirus and firewall programs.

Because the worm does not properly handle the network resource types, it
may flood shared printer resources, which causes them to print garbage or
disrupt their normal functionality.

It is written in the Microsoft Visual C++ 6 programming language and is
compressed with UPX v0.76.1-1.22.


Damage

* Payload:
o Large scale e-mailing: Attemps to mass-mail to addresses
harvested from a compromised host using it's own SMTP engine
o Compromises security settings: May allow unauthorized access to
compromised machines. Attempts to terminate processes of various antivirus
and firewall programs.

Distribution

* Subject of email: Variable
* Name of attachment: Variable, with double extension ending in .exe,
.scr, or .pif
* Size of attachment: 50,688 bytes
* Ports: 36794
* Shared drives: Attempts to connect to available network resources

*

technical details

When W32.Bugbear@mm runs, it does the following:

It copies itself as %system%\????.exe, where ? represents letters that are
chosen by the worm.

NOTE: %system% is a variable. The worm locates the System folder and copies
itself to that location. By default this is C:\Windows\System (Windows
95/98/Me), C:\Winnt\System32 (Windows NT/2000), or C:\Windows\System32
(Windows XP).

It copies itself to the \Startup folder as ???.exe, where ? represents
letters that are chosen by the worm. For example,

* It may copy itself as C:\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup\Cuu.exe
when it runs on a Windows 95/98/Me-based system
* It may copy itself as C:\Documents and Settings\<current user name>\Start
Menu\Programs\Startup\Cti.exe when it runs on a Windows NT/2000/XP-based
system.


It creates three encrypted .dll files in the %system% folder and two
encrypted .dat files in the %windir% folder. One of the files contains a
password required to establish connection with the backdoor component.
Another dropped .dll file is used by the worm to install hook procedures
into a hook chain to monitor the system for any keyboard messages. The
keyboard hook procedures process the messages and pass the hook information
to the next hook procedure in the current hook chain. The installed .dll is
5,632 bytes in size and is detected by Symantec antivirus product as
PWS.Hooker.Trojan.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21789 From: SSabino39@aol.com Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: Wood for train board
Can anyone provide some insight as to which type of wood serves as the best
foundation for a layout ? Checked out Home Depot and there were many
choices. The ordinary plywood looked warped. The birch and oak looked a lot
better and much straighter, but I am concerned about the hardness of the wood
when attempting to secure track and accessories via screws. Also should the
rubber road bed be used ? Or should track go directly on the wood ?

What is the best thickness ? The half inch looked about right

Many thanks, I am finally getting this project off the ground.

Rich Sabino


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21790 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: Train show pictures
The pictures are large. I have to figure out how to resize them and I will
add more to the file. Hope you enjoy. Chris The Trainnut
PS Just click on the link. Or copy and paste this link in your browser.
http://groups.aol.com/rfgamericanflyer?mmch_=0&
__Action=V7/V7PhotosViewCollection&__Compset=GM&
enc=jt%2FqwgbRFYAwDN%2F5R7fgfRodXLU6qy8KA%2F3sawEvpZtpnSG5HqnH2l5vwLNSnrqvjQuV

l3HBaqes%0ApBrfs%2FcLjvNtHQ2uBJMvnIAZKab5RJTBhQJ%2B8sPHIL1%2FL3fdpVtseaxJQ8Oe0

LfI9bRahH3FprAE%0A2zNbE4zB


Dear Members,

Cbtrainnut1 added a new photo collection, called Cincinnati GATS 2002 S-Gauge
Layout, to the Group, "rfgamericanflyer."

To see these photos, click <A HREF="http://groups.aol.com/rfgamericanflyer?mmch_=0&__Action=V7/V7PhotosViewCollection&__Compset=GM&enc=jt%2FqwgbRFYAwDN%2F5R7fgfRodXLU6qy8KA%2F3sawEvpZtpnSG5HqnH2l5vwLNSnrqvjQuVl3HBaqes%0ApBrfs%2FcLjvNtHQ2uBJMvnIAZKab5RJTBhQJ%2B8sPHIL1%2FL3fdpVtseaxJQ8Oe0LfI9bRahH3FprAE%0A2zNbE4zB">here.</A>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21791 From: David Dewey Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: Re: Wood for train board
Rich,
Gee, too many variables!! All of it depends on your support framework,
and the style of layout you are going to build (tabletop or open-frame with
scenery). It would probably be good to find a book on layout construction. A
good support framework is essential for trouble-free operations.
Considering the price of wood, it is also probably wise to not over build to
the extent that I usually do (2x6s where 1x3s would do just fine). Go around
and look at other's layouts for ideas too.
S'
David D.
Who should be at least finally planning a "permanant" layout by next
fall!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21792 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: My On30 Christmas set....bummer!!
Well,...just spent the last couple of hours trying to get my Bachmann On30 Christmas set
to work!! After using one of my old Marx floodlights to test the transformer, then the track,..
finally figured out when I placed the loco on the track it tripped the circuit breaker in the trannie...
must be a short in the loco!!
Train store MAY be open tomorrow, holiday and all. They have other sets there.
Still a bummer, almost ruined my "Sopranos"!!
I sure like the loco and tender,...for me, that's all I would need in a "S" loco, well, a smoke unit would
be nice! But for $150.00,...I think it is a nice looking set! Now,..if it would only run!! :-(
Yeah, yeah,..ya get what ya pay for! But Bachmann has a limited lifetime warranty. Not bad.


Rick.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21793 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/10/2002
Subject: Re: Wood for train board
<<((Also should the rubber road bed be used ? Or should track go directly on the wood ?))>>

I would suggest rubber roadbed if you are just putting track unto a board.
It sure helped with the noise on my little Fall layout.

Rick.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21794 From: Walt Danylak Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Re: My On30 Christmas set....bummer!!
--- In S-Trains@y..., "Rick Evans" <comic@d...> wrote:
Well,...just spent the last couple of hours trying to get my Bachmann
On30 Christmas set to work!! After using one of my old Marx
floodlights to test the transformer, then the track,..
finally figured out when I placed the loco on the track it tripped
the circuit breaker in the trannie...

Rick,

You are using a DC power pack and not an AC transformer aren't you?
The On30 only runs on DC, not AC.

Walt Danylak
Group: S-Trains Message: 21795 From: knockbill Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: potential virus
Hi
Over the weekend, my ISP rejected an e-mail from someone
called "timboy"..... I don't know this person, but it said it came
from Yahoo groups, and may have been sent by a virus???
Just a heads up to the group..... hope everyone has protection
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 21796 From: knockbill Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: potential virus
Hi
Over the weekend, my ISP rejected an e-mail from someone
called "timboy"..... I don't know this person, but it said it came
from Yahoo groups, and may have been sent by a virus???
Just a heads up to the group..... hope everyone has protection
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 21797 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Re: potential virus
I know I do. What about you?

-Tim Brown (Timboy)
----- Original Message -----
From: knockbill
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 9:12 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] potential virus


Hi
Over the weekend, my ISP rejected an e-mail from someone
called "timboy"..... I don't know this person, but it said it came
from Yahoo groups, and may have been sent by a virus???
Just a heads up to the group..... hope everyone has protection
John


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21798 From: knockbill Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: 322
Sorry about the previous double post.....
The buttons on the bottom of some 1946 steam engines were for special
operating accesories, using special track sections which they
contacted,,, I'm not sure how extensively they were used....
I'm sure others have more info
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 21799 From: knockbill Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: potential virus
I have Norton & my ISP caught it on MacAfee before it was sent to
me.I think I'm OK...
Group: S-Trains Message: 21800 From: Roy Plotnick Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Fast Docksiders
>
>Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 08:34:25 -0700
> From: "Jim Armstrong" <jarmstro@...>
>Subject: Docksider again
>
>OK, I've got my 21158 Docksider running. Wow, it is a speedy little
>darter!! My thanks to folks here on the thread. But I have a couple of
>residual questions. Was this loco intended to be run on DC (no reversing
>unit evident)? And was there supposed to be some kind of weight in the
>thing (it's awfully light on its feet, spinning its wheels at the least
>hint of an excuse)? JimA
Yes, they are very fast. I have won "steam division" in the S-fest train
races twice with mine. Other times I have lost to someone else with a
Docksider. On the other hand, they have no pulling power. I originally
bought mine (1963?) to pull a "work train" with the track cleaning car. It
had real problems pulling the heavy metal thing around the track!
-Roy



Roy E. Plotnick
Professor
Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences
University of Illinois at Chicago
845 W. Taylor St.
Chicago, IL 60607
plotnick@...
office phone: 312-996-2111 fax: 312-413-2279
lab phone: 312-355-1342
web page: http://www.uic.edu/~plotnick/plotnick.htm
"The scientific celebrities, forgetting their molluscs and
glacial periods, gossiped about art, while devoting themselves to
oysters and ices with characteristic energy.." -Little Women, Louisa May
Alcott


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21801 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: PA Engine
Here's a quote from TRAINS magazine, 12/65, about the 244, the diesel
engine in the prototype Alco PA diesels:

"The initial 244 engines went to the first of Alco's famous flat-nose
freight cabs delivered to GM & O at the end of 1945 and in early 1946.
Others soon followed for other roads, but troubles appeared and began to
multiply. The air-cooled GE aircraft-style turbochargers destroyed
themselves at intervals often less than monthly. The crankshaft proved
vulnerable to breakage, in large part because of a weak main bearing
design. The large cast exhaust manifold cracked, releasing corrosive gases
which caused generator flashovers. Pieces of the broken manifold raised
havoc by dropping into the valve assembly. The lag between fuel nozzles
ant the turbocharger caused severe smoking at starting. Alco servicemen
were spread too thin. The next few years became a nightmare. Late in 1946
Alco stretched the 244 to 16 cylinders for a new passenger unit, the PA-1.
The first unit was Santa Fe No. 51, and it looked elegant. However, the
bigger engine only accentuated the 244's problems. It must be stated that
at its worst, the 244 was not as bad as the engines of some of the other
builders, and that the problems were subsequently tamed in large measure by
Alco development work."

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21802 From: SSabino39@aol.com Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Wood for train board
Sincere thanks to all who offered help regarding the train board.

Will keep you posted on how this turns out ! The last time I built a
permanent layout was at least 25 years ago.


Rich Sabino




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21803 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Retrofitting an AF 4-8-4
Hi Don:
While going through some old e-mails, I noted with interest your comment
that you had retrofitted a 4-8-4 challenger with a locomatic AC/DC sound
unit. Do you have any stepwise instructions with pictures? Assume you
put it in the tender?? That sounds like something which would improve
some of the current AF runnings.

Tx for info.
Rance Velapoldi

Don Thompson wrote:

>...... trains on our layout. They all seemed to enjoy hearing the sounds and
>seeing the smoke pour out of our AF 4-8-4 Challenger that was retro fitted with
>a LocoMatic AC/DC sound unit. ( http://www.dallee.com ).......
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21804 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Re: My On30 Christmas set....bummer!!
<<((Rick, You are using a DC power pack and not an AC transformer aren't you?
The On30 only runs on DC, not AC. Walt Danylak))>>


Yep,..was using the DC transformer that came with the set!

Rick.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21805 From: Jim Armstrong Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Re: Timboy (Tim Brown)
For sure this was not Tim's doing. When I tried to reply to the message
(quarrantined on my system), the address for the message turned out to
be bogus. JimA
Group: S-Trains Message: 21806 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Re: Timboy (Tim Brown)
Thank you! Norton still says I'm clean. I ran a scan last night and another one this morning.

Thanks again,
Tim Brown (Timboy)
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Armstrong
To: S-Trains@onelist.com
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:18 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Timboy (Tim Brown)


For sure this was not Tim's doing. When I tried to reply to the message
(quarrantined on my system), the address for the message turned out to
be bogus. JimA



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21807 From: Ted Larson Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: moderator
I don't want this to become a computer e-list (anybody want to start an
S-scale computer HELP e-list?), however you all need to know about this
problem. Some viruses use the names in the "hosts" address book to
forge the header so that the mail appears to be from somebody different
than who really sent it. You can learn how to read the header to find
out what domain it REALLY came from. If you do so, send it to
ABUSE@... OR send it to YOUR ISP, in care of the help
desk or the ABUSE desk and ask them for help in sending the virus
report to the originating domain. To avoid most viruses, don't use MS
Outlook, use some other e-mail software.

Ted Larson


Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 07:59:54 -0700
From: "Gerry Evans" <cujoacat@ >
Subject: WORM

I have a piece of mail on my PC this AM that my filter tells me
contains a worm. The mail is from a Scott Brown. Oddly, this piece of
mail
is showing as being generated on the S-Trains list. Since I only
subscribe to the digest on the S-Trains list, I don't know how this
particular piece slipped through as a single item. Since I didn't open
the mail,
I don't know to whom it was addressed, me as and individual or the
whole list.

Just thought you'd like to know about this and try to avoid any
problems. God knows the S community doesn't need any more problems.

Gerry Evans
In Flagstaff


=====
Ted Larson

__________________________________________________
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U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21808 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Re: Wood for train board
Rubber roadbed is the only way to go. It not only deadens the nose
but adds alot to the realism. Have Fun!John B.




--- In S-Trains@y..., "Rick Evans" <comic@d...> wrote:
>
> <<((Also should the rubber road bed be used ? Or should track
go directly on the wood ?))>>
>
> I would suggest rubber roadbed if you are just putting track unto
a board.
> It sure helped with the noise on my little Fall layout.
>
> Rick.
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21809 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Re: Wood for train board
Have got to start editing posts before sending. Thanks also for the
info on 322 buttons. Anyone have a Pic?John B.

--- In S-Trains@y..., "John Brockmann" <hcopter51@a...> wrote:
> Rubber roadbed is the only way to go. It not only deadens the noise
> but adds alot to the realism. Have Fun!John B.
>
>
>
>
> --- In S-Trains@y..., "Rick Evans" <comic@d...> wrote:
> >
> > <<((Also should the rubber road bed be used ? Or should track
> go directly on the wood ?))>>
> >
> > I would suggest rubber roadbed if you are just putting track
unto
> a board.
> > It sure helped with the noise on my little Fall layout.
> >
> > Rick.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21810 From: louis glumac Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Re: Timboy (Tim Brown)
well my norton worked,,,,quarenteen the email as it arrived, i wonder who
the poor unlucky guy with the virus is, i had this one,,does suck,,, please
everyone make sure your virus scan is up to date,the $25 for virus scan
will save you hundreds and a lot of headaches,,,thanks,,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>
To: "S-Trains@onelist.com" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "Jim Armstrong"
<jarmstro@...>
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: Timboy (Tim Brown)


> Thank you! Norton still says I'm clean. I ran a scan last night and
another one this morning.
>
> Thanks again,
> Tim Brown (Timboy)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim Armstrong
> To: S-Trains@onelist.com
> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:18 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Timboy (Tim Brown)
>
>
> For sure this was not Tim's doing. When I tried to reply to the message
> (quarrantined on my system), the address for the message turned out to
> be bogus. JimA
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21811 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Re: Wood for train board
Rich...Maybe too late to help...But back in 1985 I built my 4'-4" x 8'-0"
layout using 1 x 4 with 1x4 cross pieces at 24" o. c....I used 2 x 4 legs
with rollers in the so I could roll the table out from the wall for working
on...I then used a 1/4" plywood top nailed and glued to the 1x4's...I then
applied a 1/2" layer of homosoate material tacked and glued.....Has worked
perfectly all this time...I am thinking of building a new layout in my new
train room...It will be the same, except for dropped sections for bridge
areas.....I am also going to raise the track up to a higher level to avoid
the flatness I have now...My problem now is I am not sure of what track to
use....some of the new stuff or I have a pile of AF track and switches...Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: <SSabino39@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:09 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Wood for train board


> Sincere thanks to all who offered help regarding the train board.
>
> Will keep you posted on how this turns out ! The last time I built a
> permanent layout was at least 25 years ago.
>
>
> Rich Sabino
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21812 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Re: Wood for train board
Sorry....forgot to mention....All of my present track ins on rubber
roadbead..Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Brockmann" <hcopter51@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 1:12 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Wood for train board


> Rubber roadbed is the only way to go. It not only deadens the nose
> but adds alot to the realism. Have Fun!John B.
>
>
>
>
> --- In S-Trains@y..., "Rick Evans" <comic@d...> wrote:
> >
> > <<((Also should the rubber road bed be used ? Or should track
> go directly on the wood ?))>>
> >
> > I would suggest rubber roadbed if you are just putting track unto
> a board.
> > It sure helped with the noise on my little Fall layout.
> >
> > Rick.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21813 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: 4713 Chrome SET 470/471/473/ & 4 pass cars
Someone on the list was looking for 4713 set a week or two ago. I have one
if they are still interested. Mike S.
P: Please Contact me off list


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21814 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1641
GILBERT H.O. SET #140 Hotshot Freight 1948
Came with # 151 loco, 124 Refer, 128 Gon, 131 Caboose.
Tank # 125 is an add on 1947-50. Nice set, hope you enjoy.

Their is a very good H.O . book on Gilbert by Gary Klein,
colored pictures and description, a must for us HO people.

CORGI 3/16" scale (close enough ) 1966 GMC TEXICO paragon oil tanker
picked up mine for $2.99 at K & B toys

Jerry 77-11644


________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21815 From: Mark Preman Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: New Accessory Sale For S-Trains List
I need to clean out some space in the garage. This
sale is for S-Trains members only-mention it when you
call or e-mail. (Shipping means in the contiguous 48)
Mark

MTH 787 Log Loader (3 left) $190 including shipping.

Lionel 796 Sawmill (2 left) $90 including shipping

Lionel 752 Seaboard Coaler (4 left) $180 incl.shipping

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
Group: S-Trains Message: 21816 From: afchoochoo Date: 11/11/2002
Subject: AF Parts
Can anyone help me with any of these origonal AF parts:
4 Pantograph springs, Hudson tender rear trucks-link or knucle,
origonal green lens for rotating beacon top, yellow plastic house for
23787 Log Loader? I also seem to remember seing something on this
list about someone making repro Franklin boiler fronts and bells. If
anyone can help please contact me off list at afchoochoo@....
Thanks,
Jim Dunn, Gainesville, GA.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21817 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: North Shore 234 is IATR 33
Dear Laura:
Iowa Terminal purchased three box motors plus the contents of the
Kenosha substation when the CNS&M shut down. I expect Ed Allen personally
choose these items.
Box motors 216, 234, and 239 were brought to Iowa. 216 was
repainted and renumbered 31. She died in the tragic Thanksgiving day fire
of 1967 which started in the lumberyard next door. Also lost were WCF&N
100, IAT 1, and IAT 52. The carbarn was a complete loss including two
rotary converters. Somehow the huge fire door to a small room was closed.
This room contains a smaller rotary that was the standby unit. This door
was rarely closed but it was that night. After the fire it was now Iowa
Terminal's sole source of DC power.
Box motors 234 and 239, meanwhile, were stored on the former Charles
City Western. After the fire both were brought to the Emery shops at Mason
City. 239 was cannibalized to rebuild 234. 234 was repainted and
renumbered 33. (32 was reserved for 239.) 239 was then burned on a
Thursday afternoon, in the spring of 1968. Before the fire I saved two
small pieces of siding. They are small enough that they now live in a
zip-lock bag in a file in my file cabinet. I saw this fire and have an
extensive write-up. Ask if you want it e-mailed to you.
CNS&M 727 was purchased by the Iowa Historical Society and brought
to Centerville, Iowa. She road the rails of the Iowa Southern for several
years. In 1968 she was sold to the Iowa Terminal railroad as their
inspection car to replace Waterloo, Cedar Falls, and Northern 100. She was
cleaned, painted, and renumbered 102. (100 had a full rebuild but started
in much worse shape.)
The sale document contains language that the Iowa Historical Society
has final say should Iowa Terminal decide to sell / scrap / or otherwise
greatly alter the car. There is also a clause (gentleman's agreement or
written) that she will be run at least once yearly. Iowa Terminal did a
good job with this. She would normally get out when they were doing track
work. Ed Allen used her as a 'super speeder' to pull those tiny four wheel,
speeder type flats. 102 has couplers that are much lower than normal
because of an extension given to her anticlimber by the North Shore. I got
several rides in 727 while she was pulling these speeder flats.
On November 7, 1972 is always significant to me. Tricky-Dicky was
re-elected against my desires and Iowa Terminal's rotary converter burned
out a bearing. A diesel was rented from the Milwaukee road. I was
devastated. (My father called my best friends father and told him the news
of Iowa Terminal. I was already in pain. Because of this call, McGovern's
loss was not rubbed in my face. I am still grateful.) Fate intervened when
the local diesel fuel dealer was not permitted to take on any new customers
so the rotary had to be fixed and electric operation resumed. My smile
returned -- but with caution. The smile became real when the Kenosha
switchboard and its diodes were installed into the South West corner of the
new shops. The old rotary resumed its life on standby, still in the only
remaining section of the old, brick shops. That old fire door was sealed to
the building. I think it has been replaced by another brick wall.
Iowa Terminal was sold to Iowa Traction on April 4, 1987. Box motor
33 was included but 727 was not. 727 was later sold to the Mason City and
Clear Lake Historical Society. The Iowa Historical Society (who had to
approve the sale) again included language that she had to be run at least
once annually and that they had a say in her disposal. It also included a
clause that Iowa Traction could purchase her for $15,000.00 if she was not
run annually.
727 currently resides in the Mason City and Clear Lake carbarn in
Clear Lake at the end of Iowa Traction. She has not moved in over two
years. Dave Johnson, the owner / operator of Iowa Traction, has been
running a multi-year legal battle trying to get her out of there so she can
have her annual run plus get a dying bearing replaced.

To answer your original question:
234 survives as 33 in the shops at Emery.
727 survives in Clear Lake and is currently in Iowa Terminal paint as 102.
The Kenosha Switchboard (and rectifier pack) are generating 600 V DC.

Thorin


-----Original Message-----
From: Laura Hedien [mailto:conductor@...]
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 6:22 PM
To: Marty.Thorin
Subject: Re: North Shore 234 is IATR 33


>

Hi- I was going through some old emails and I see I may not have answered
yours. I always want to keep a correct and updated site.
What cars do you have that once were North Shore Line cars? Unfortunately I
do not recognize your museum numbers with what once
were NSL numbers. I would love to add them to the "survivor page".
Thanks- will wait for your reply.
Laura

> "Marty.Thorin" wrote:
>
> Resend with "North Shore" in the title line.
>
> Thorin Marty
> Milwaukee, WI
> Raised in Mason City, IA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marty.Thorin
> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 3:46 PM
> To: 'Conductor@...'
> Subject: 234 is IATR 33
>
> I was surprised to not see the Iowa Traction Box Motor / Line Car #33 not
listed in the survivors.
>
> Also the switchboard for the Kenosha substation is located in the SW
corner of the Iowa Traction shops at Emery. It is in use.
>
> Thorin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21818 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: North Shore 234 is IATR 33
Sorry. This was not supposed to have gone to the S gauge lists.

Thorin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21819 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Faster on AC than DC
I'm not sure it's quite that simple. I have experienced this on other
conversions and found it related to either the ampere or voltage rating
on the bridge. Also behaves differently whether the rectifier DC leads
are connected across field or armature. The engine in question has
since been converted back to AC and 2 step reverse. It now runs
considerably faster on DC than it did with the rectifier in.

In another instance a year or so ago I changed the bridge from a 100 to
50 PIV rating and the engine was much speedier.

John Bandstra wrote:
>
> Chuck Smith wrote
>
> ... This is one of those motors that runs noticeably
> faster on AC than on DC for no apparent reason. I
> think it may have something to do with the ratings on
> the bridge rectifier. Earlier I thought it had to do
> with whether you put the DC side of the rectifier on
> the armature, so on this one I was careful to put the
> DC side on the field, so that's not it.
>
> Chuck, there is typically a .7 volt drop across a
> rectifier. A full wave bridge rectifier has two
> rectifiers working at a time. This leaves the motor
> with 1.4 volts less when ran on DC than when on AC at
> the same track voltage setting.
>
> John Bandstra
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
> http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21820 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] RE: North Shore 234 is IATR 33
Thorin:
It was interesting to read, nevertheless!
Rance Velapoldi (Norway - where the snow flies early this year)

Marty.Thorin wrote:

>Sorry. This was not supposed to have gone to the S gauge lists.
>
>Thorin
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>To see or post Photos visit
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
>or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
>To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21821 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Faster on AC than DC question
Why would a field wound motor (or is it a wound field motor?) run faster
with a 50 PIV diode bridge than with a 100PIV bridge? Can someone explain
this?

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21822 From: Mark Koenig Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Sets and boxes
Hi All,

Is there a resource out there where you can look up a car number and
see what sets it came in? I'm in the process of going through my
Flyer to see what sets I can recreate. Also about 10 years ago I
bought a bunch of plain white boxes to protect my boxless flyer
items. I can't remember where/who I bought them from. They came in
two sizes and for a particular price I got an assortment of each.
Does anyone know where I can get boxes to put my loose cars in?

"S"incerely,

Mark Koenig
Roseville, MN
Group: S-Trains Message: 21823 From: aag_rlg Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Wood for Train Board
Hi:

I would also look into the possibility of not using plywood at all,
but using insulating foam board instead. I have used this on a
Christmas layout that I do for a local museum and it is very light
and easy to work with. It also seems to be plenty strong enough to
hold trains and scenery, however, don't plan to stand on it. Foam
board comes in a variety of thicknesses and comes in 2' x 8' and 4' x
8' sheets. Pieces can be stacked to build up mountains and you can
poke holes right through it for electrical connections. Lastly, it
reduces the train noise without roadbed, or you could probably use
rubber roadbed or homasote on top of it. To use the foam board you
need to build a frame to place it in with supports underneath. I
used 1" x 2" pine for the frame and supports. The foam board can be
glued to the supports or have track or roadbed glued to it with
liquid nails. Thought you might be interested in an alternative to
plywood.

Thanks,
Art
Group: S-Trains Message: 21824 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Sets and boxes
Try "THE ALMOST COMPLETE GUIDE TO AMERICAN FLYER S GAUGE SETS" by Robert
Tufts......Has A lot of them...Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Koenig" <mdgineok@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:09 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Sets and boxes


> Hi All,
>
> Is there a resource out there where you can look up a car number and
> see what sets it came in? I'm in the process of going through my
> Flyer to see what sets I can recreate. Also about 10 years ago I
> bought a bunch of plain white boxes to protect my boxless flyer
> items. I can't remember where/who I bought them from. They came in
> two sizes and for a particular price I got an assortment of each.
> Does anyone know where I can get boxes to put my loose cars in?
>
> "S"incerely,
>
> Mark Koenig
> Roseville, MN
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21825 From: Ted Larson Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Headers
I have uploaded a file describing how to read e-mail headers when you
want to see what domain that virus message REALLY came from.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/headers.txt

=====
Ted Larson

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21826 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Wood for Train Board
Art,
Have you used any other glue than liquid nails to put the track and roadbed
on the foam board? How hard is it to remove if you want to change the track
plan?

Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "aag_rlg" <aag_rlg@...>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:10 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Wood for Train Board


> Hi:
>
> I would also look into the possibility of not using plywood at all,
> but using insulating foam board instead. I have used this on a
> Christmas layout that I do for a local museum and it is very light
> and easy to work with. It also seems to be plenty strong enough to
> hold trains and scenery, however, don't plan to stand on it. Foam
> board comes in a variety of thicknesses and comes in 2' x 8' and 4' x
> 8' sheets. Pieces can be stacked to build up mountains and you can
> poke holes right through it for electrical connections. Lastly, it
> reduces the train noise without roadbed, or you could probably use
> rubber roadbed or homasote on top of it. To use the foam board you
> need to build a frame to place it in with supports underneath. I
> used 1" x 2" pine for the frame and supports. The foam board can be
> glued to the supports or have track or roadbed glued to it with
> liquid nails. Thought you might be interested in an alternative to
> plywood.
>
> Thanks,
> Art
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21827 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Sets and boxes
Yes, the "Almost Complete Guide" is definitely the one to get. I am
using it to recreate sets from 1946....Excellent guide....John B.



--- In S-Trains@y..., "robert allen conner" <rcon7@b...> wrote:
> Try "THE ALMOST COMPLETE GUIDE TO AMERICAN FLYER S GAUGE SETS" by
Robert
> Tufts......Has A lot of them...Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Koenig" <mdgineok@a...>
> To: <S-Trains@y...>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:09 AM
> Subject: [S-Trains] Sets and boxes
>
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Is there a resource out there where you can look up a car number
and
> > see what sets it came in? I'm in the process of going through my
> > Flyer to see what sets I can recreate. Also about 10 years ago I
> > bought a bunch of plain white boxes to protect my boxless flyer
> > items. I can't remember where/who I bought them from. They came
in
> > two sizes and for a particular price I got an assortment of each.
> > Does anyone know where I can get boxes to put my loose cars in?
> >
> > "S"incerely,
> >
> > Mark Koenig
> > Roseville, MN
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@Y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
Group: S-Trains Message: 21828 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Wood for Train Board
To build on the below: We have built modules using homasote roadbed over
foam and I have used both cork and homasote roadbed, plus some AF
rubber, over foam on my home layout. Good combination! Make sure you
get the pink or blue foam. It can be carved with a knife without making
an excessive mess.

aag_rlg wrote:
>
> Hi:
>
> I would also look into the possibility of not using plywood at all,
> but using insulating foam board instead. I have used this on a
> Christmas layout that I do for a local museum and it is very light
> and easy to work with. It also seems to be plenty strong enough to
> hold trains and scenery, however, don't plan to stand on it. Foam
> board comes in a variety of thicknesses and comes in 2' x 8' and 4' x
> 8' sheets. Pieces can be stacked to build up mountains and you can
> poke holes right through it for electrical connections. Lastly, it
> reduces the train noise without roadbed, or you could probably use
> rubber roadbed or homasote on top of it. To use the foam board you
> need to build a frame to place it in with supports underneath. I
> used 1" x 2" pine for the frame and supports. The foam board can be
> glued to the supports or have track or roadbed glued to it with
> liquid nails. Thought you might be interested in an alternative to
> plywood.
>
> Thanks,
> Art
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21829 From: Alex Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Faster on AC than DC question
Hi Tom:

It is possible that the higher PIV-rated bridge uses series-connected diodes
internally. This stacked configuration would cause a 0.7 volt per diode
internal drop, thus the lower operating voltage at the bridge's output.

== Alex in Maine
AI2Q .-.-.

-----Original Message-----
From: jarcho@... [mailto:jarcho@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 10:55 AM
To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Faster on AC than DC question


Why would a field wound motor (or is it a wound field motor?) run faster
with a 50 PIV diode bridge than with a 100PIV bridge? Can someone explain
this?

Tom Jarcho



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21830 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Revolving Beacons
Any suggestions as to why my revolving beacons do not rotate on the
bulb? I have the correct bulbs with the dimple on top for the lense
housing to sit in but it just refuses to rotate. Thanks,John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21831 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Revolving Beacons
Check to see if the vanes are correctly set...Heat rising from the bulb
causes the Beacon to turn...Really never worked real well for me....Need to
get bulb hot...use higher voltage....don't burn it out though...Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Brockmann" <hcopter51@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 2:41 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Revolving Beacons


> Any suggestions as to why my revolving beacons do not rotate on the
> bulb? I have the correct bulbs with the dimple on top for the lense
> housing to sit in but it just refuses to rotate. Thanks,John B.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21832 From: Bruce Papky Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Lionel Sawmill.
If anyone is looking for Lionel's AF Sawmill as a Christmas gift, I
still have one available, NIB, never been opened. Contact me off list.
Thanks.

Bruce.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21833 From: Gary Chidester Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Back from Roswell.
I made it back from Roswell, NM without finding any aliens or Flyer. I did
make it to the International UFO Museum, interesting and glad it was free!
On a train related note; I saw more trains in a stretch along the old route
66 between Albuquerque and Gallup, NM than I have seen in months! Very
exciting to see a consist of almost 60 cars barreling along at 80MPH.

Yes, Area 51 is in Nevada, as suspected by many. There seems to be a close
relation between Roswell and Area 51 however.

gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 21834 From: Gary Chidester Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Display shelves?
Does anyone know where I could get some aluminum display shelves?

I purchased 5 from my nearest A.F. Dealer, but he is gone and I would like
to add a couple more shelves that look the same. They look almost like a
chalk tray, and hold about 5-7 cars.

Thanks.

gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 21835 From: Gary Chidester Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Display shelves?
Does anyone know where I could get some aluminum display shelves?

I purchased 5 from my nearest A.F. Dealer, but he is gone and I would like
to add a couple more shelves that look the same. They look almost like a
chalk tray, and hold about 5-7 cars.

Thanks.

gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 21836 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Display shelves?
Rail Rax system is what I use.
Here is thier site:
http://www.railrax.net/

Carl



-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Chidester [mailto:GChidester@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 6:29 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Display shelves?


Does anyone know where I could get some aluminum display shelves?

I purchased 5 from my nearest A.F. Dealer, but he is gone and I would like
to add a couple more shelves that look the same. They look almost like a
chalk tray, and hold about 5-7 cars.

Thanks.

gary


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21837 From: Sam and Judy Williamson Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Revolving Beacons
I too have problems with the revolving beacons not working. I have gone thru
3 heads, don't know how many bulbs, washed the bulbs with alcohol, bent the
vanes (broke serveral) and no luck.

My theory regarding why they don't work is that the new generation of bulbs
presently on the market are made with a smaller gauge filament wire than the
originals. Thus, for a given voltage, they produce less heat. Nothing can
be done to force it except raise the operating voltage and buy a lot of
dimple bulbs.

Any comments?

Sam Williamson


----- Original Message -----
From: "robert allen conner" <rcon7@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "John Brockmann" <hcopter51@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Revolving Beacons


> Check to see if the vanes are correctly set...Heat rising from the bulb
> causes the Beacon to turn...Really never worked real well for me....Need
to
> get bulb hot...use higher voltage....don't burn it out though...Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Brockmann" <hcopter51@...>
> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 2:41 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] Revolving Beacons
>
>
> > Any suggestions as to why my revolving beacons do not rotate on the
> > bulb? I have the correct bulbs with the dimple on top for the lense
> > housing to sit in but it just refuses to rotate. Thanks,John B.
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21838 From: mlmarmer Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Display shelves?
Gary,

Have you ever considering making shelves out of wood for the trains?

Bob Tufts told me how he made his and I did the same. Painted the shelves
white, with the wall being white also. The colors of the trains really
stand out with the white paint and your eye is not drawn to the metal
aluminum shelving.

I can send you a few pictures, via email, if you would like and tell you how
Bob told me to put the shelving up.

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Chidester" <GChidester@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 6:29 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Display shelves?


> Does anyone know where I could get some aluminum display shelves?
>
> I purchased 5 from my nearest A.F. Dealer, but he is gone and I would like
> to add a couple more shelves that look the same. They look almost like a
> chalk tray, and hold about 5-7 cars.
>
> Thanks.
>
> gary
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21839 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Display shelves?
When I built my shelf units ( 3 ) I used 1 x 4's at 4" clearance between
shelves....I used A 1 x 4 at the ends...the size was 6' long, 8' long, 9'
long....I then painted all Batttleship gray for A ballast color....I then
covered the back with 1/4" prefinished paneling that was white...then nailed
thru the paneling with small nails to support the shelves....they have
worked fine for 17 years.....Going to move them soon to the new train room
as is....Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@...>
To: "Gary Chidester" <GChidester@...>; <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Display shelves?


> Gary,
>
> Have you ever considering making shelves out of wood for the trains?
>
> Bob Tufts told me how he made his and I did the same. Painted the shelves
> white, with the wall being white also. The colors of the trains really
> stand out with the white paint and your eye is not drawn to the metal
> aluminum shelving.
>
> I can send you a few pictures, via email, if you would like and tell you
how
> Bob told me to put the shelving up.
>
> Mike
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Chidester" <GChidester@...>
> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 6:29 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] Display shelves?
>
>
> > Does anyone know where I could get some aluminum display shelves?
> >
> > I purchased 5 from my nearest A.F. Dealer, but he is gone and I would
like
> > to add a couple more shelves that look the same. They look almost like
a
> > chalk tray, and hold about 5-7 cars.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > gary
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21840 From: JConn444@aol.com Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Display Shelves
Try this one: <A HREF="http://gsds.com/">Welcome to Glenn Snyder Display Systems (GSDS) - Toy Train
Display Shelves</A>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21841 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Dept. Store 1950's AF layout for sale.
Jeff Faust called me tonight to let me know that Frank Ligocki, who
owned the Sibley's Department Store American Flyer layout, has passed
away and the layout is for sale. It is 7 x 16 feet and was built by A C
Gilbert Co. for the Sibley store in Rochester NY in the 50's. Jeff did
a feature article about the layout in the May 1998 Classic Toy Trains.
It is virtually a twin to the AF Boy's Club Layout. This is a rare item
and the price should be significant. He mentioned going as high as 20
thousand, but I think the difficulty in having space for such an item
will mitigate the price significantly.

For more information contact Jeff by phone at 585 244 8624. Jeff would
also like to know if any museums would be interested.
--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21842 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Revolving Beacons
In a message dated 11/12/02 7:38:03 PM, seaboard@... writes:

<< I too have problems with the revolving beacons not working. <snip> Any
comments? Sam Williamson >>

Doug Peck of Port Lines Hobbies has a beacon top and bulb, which if bought
and used together, he will guarantee to rotate. I've used his combination and
it works well.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 21843 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Re: Revolving Beacons
Thanks for all the info on the beacons. I have contacted Doug. Thanks
also for the help and info on my 322 Hudson. This group is great!
John B.

--- In S-Trains@y..., rbubeck327@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/12/02 7:38:03 PM, seaboard@a... writes:
>
> << I too have problems with the revolving beacons not working.
<snip> Any
> comments? Sam Williamson >>
>
> Doug Peck of Port Lines Hobbies has a beacon top and bulb, which if
bought
> and used together, he will guarantee to rotate. I've used his
combination and
> it works well.
>
> RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 21844 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/12/2002
Subject: Rail Rax & Chalk trays....
<<((Rail Rax system is what I use.
Here is their site:
http://www.railrax.net/ ))>>

I was planning to buy some of these at one time,..and still might,..
but speaking of chalktrays,...working at a school has paid off again,...over the
summer I scored three-ten foot lengths of chalk trays!! Free! Yes Dewey, FREE!!
Haven't got them up yet but soon.


Rick.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21845 From: Victor Bereskin Date: 11/13/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1644
Iif all other fators in the diode bridges are equal, the Peak Inverse
Voltage rating will have no effect on how fast the motor will turn at a
given supply voltage. If, however, the 100 PIV bridge is also designed for
a higher current rating, then the voltage drop across the diodes will be
smaller at a given current. The actual difference in running still would
most likely be imperceptable.

Vic Bereskin

> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:55:23 -0500
> From: jarcho@...
> Subject: Faster on AC than DC question
>
> Why would a field wound motor (or is it a wound field motor?) run faster
> with a 50 PIV diode bridge than with a 100PIV bridge? Can someone explain
> this?
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21846 From: Doug Peck Date: 11/13/2002
Subject: -stes and boxes
<<<Is there a resource out there where you can look up a car number and
see what sets it came in? I'm in the process of going through my
Flyer to see what sets I can recreate. Also about 10 years ago I
bought a bunch of plain white boxes to protect my boxless flyer
items. I can't remember where/who I bought them from. They came in
two sizes and for a particular price I got an assortment of each.
Does anyone know where I can get boxes to put my loose cars in?
>>>

There is a soft-cover "set book" available for $15, by Bob Tufts. We have it
in stock.

We also stock repro red&white boxes in three different sizes, repro blue &
yellow boxes in 3 sizes, and repro set boxes in 2 sizes.
All are listed in our website Parts Catalog.

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supplies
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
New Shop Hours - Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays: 2-5 PM (EST), and 7-9 PM.
Saturdays: 2-5 PM.
Closed Sundays, Mondays, and Fridays.
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-Free; orders only, please)
<http://www.portlines.com/>
doug@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 21847 From: David Date: 11/13/2002
Subject: Re: Sets and boxes
I made a software package a few years back that enabled me to look up
sets by loco or car. I had them for sale for $25 a pop with few
takers. Everyone was all pumped up on the TrainTracker junkware, and
wanting to pay each year for updated prices and seeing photos of
stuff when they already knew what it looked like. Now I have no more
for sale, and do not plan on making any more as they are not Windows
2000 compatible. I can look up some sets and send you a spread sheet
with the set data for each if you don't have too many. This was also
a function the software performed. The output is in .WKS format and
will open in current versions of Excel.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21848 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/13/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1644
Now we're getting somewhere. All we need to do now is explain why it
was perceptible.

Victor Bereskin wrote:
>
> Iif all other fators in the diode bridges are equal, the Peak Inverse
> Voltage rating will have no effect on how fast the motor will turn at a
> given supply voltage. If, however, the 100 PIV bridge is also designed for
> a higher current rating, then the voltage drop across the diodes will be
> smaller at a given current. The actual difference in running still would
> most likely be imperceptable.
>
> Vic Bereskin
>
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:55:23 -0500
> > From: jarcho@...
> > Subject: Faster on AC than DC question
> >
> > Why would a field wound motor (or is it a wound field motor?) run faster
> > with a 50 PIV diode bridge than with a 100PIV bridge? Can someone explain
> > this?
> >
> > Tom Jarcho
> >
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21849 From: Don Thompson Date: 11/13/2002
Subject: Re: Train Fest report
I have been trying to get caught up and have not had a chance to
give a Milwaukee Train Fest report from last weekend. This was our
first time at this show. They are now in a beautiful new convention
center. The facility is very nice and it was easy to load and unload
for set up. I was very happy to see that we were set up next door to
the Badgerland's club layout. This is a big plus if you are a S scale
mfg. We had two 10 x 10 booths. We used set up three concentric loops
of S Trax and ran our new passenger warbonnet Santa Fe F-7 pulling a
string of our latest cars on the outer loop. The inside loop featured
one of our starter sets showing all of the components. S was also
represented by Des Plaines Hobbies and Scenery Unlimited. Both had
large booths and seemed to be doing a good business. Ron Sebastian had
a new kit for sale, a 20' Bulktainer (DPS-358 UP & DPS-359 Alaska West
Express) these include decals and sell for $9.98 each (to order by phone
call 800-264-1956).
I also saw some neat graffiti decals from "Scale Rail Graphics"
Bill said he would make these in S scale for $6 per set and he has
several types. You can check these out at:
http://www.scalerailgraphics.com/graffiti1.htm
and
http://www.scalerailgraphics.com/31047a.htm

A new PRR book was just released by Highland Station (publishers of
Model Railroading). "Track Side on the PRR" is 95 pages long and
written by Jeff Scherb and cost $16.95. Every SPF will be interested in
getting a copy.

We also saw the worlds nicest trees. We had reported on these in
September after seeing them at the International Hobby and Model show in
Chicago. At that time they were expecting a November delivery. Well,
they are now on there way in a container. If you have not visited their
site, you should take a look as some really great deciduous trees at:

http://www.scaletrees.com/scaletrees.html

One last note. I did not realize how different this show is
compared to other shows until I had a chance to walk around. There is
no used trains for sale. At first I thought it was due to the policy of
only allowing hobby shops and mfgs. to have tables or booths. Later, I
was told that it is the show policy that the hobby shops not sell used
trains. I guess the best thing about this show is the 18,000 visitors
that we were able to promote S scale. We are planning on returning next
years, except we will bring more literature ( we ran out after a few
hours on Saturday morning), more starter sets (we did not have enough of
these to sell either) and I am hoping to have the 2004 catalog by then
too.
Don
PS I would like to thank the Badgerland club for coming a day early and
being next to our display (don't forget to register for the NASG 2003
convention that they are hosting) and the regular crew of volunteers who
are so kind to help Mike and I - Will Holt, Bill Bateman, Sam McCoy and
Joel Lebovitz (also Ron and Susan Sebastian for helping with those ever
so important logistics).


-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
2002 Christmas Car, 2 & 3 bay PS-2s & Composite hoppers are now
shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/3bayps2_in_stock.html
http://www.showcaseline.com/2bayps2_in_stock.html
http://www.showcaseline.com/CompositeHoppers/compositehoppers.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 21850 From: trzp1800 Date: 11/13/2002
Subject: ACSG Layout @ Neuse River Show - Raleigh
Hi:
Just wanted to let everyone know that the Atlantic Coast S-Gaugers
will be operating, with the public's help, a modular layout at the
Neuse River Train Show. The show is at the North Carolina State Fair
grounds in Raleigh, NC, in the Kerr-Scott Building. Show times are 9-
5 on Saturday and Sunday, 11/16/ & 11/17. This is a nice show run by
a good group. Come on by and say hi, bring a train to run or push one
of our operating buttons and load a gondola full of barrels.

Regards,
Ted
Group: S-Trains Message: 21851 From: Dayna Warner Date: 11/13/2002
Subject: Coming soon to your corner
The Master Maker gnome that I keep in the cave has finally finished the masters for the cast iron downtown structure. Two of them actually. There will be one for the middle of the block like the Arther Arms and Siegel building but we also did a corner one that can be used as either a left or right hand corner. This one will also be a great one to kitbash into a larger SOHO style building using a couple of kits. I plan on doing one myself and will post pictures when it is done. I am holding up releasing this one for a couple of weeks because I will be training a new gnome on how to make molds and cast next week and that will be our first project.
The prototype CN station will be ready next week and as soon as I have a display model finished I will put it out on the site. Next month will be that Downtown Hotel that you guys have been requesting. You know...the one that rents rooms by the hour cheap. MAYBE in time for Christmas.
Dayna Warner CEO
Trainstuff LLC
www.trainstuffllc.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21852 From: TCS Date: 11/13/2002
Subject: Info About A Hoax Within YahooGroups
Don't know if the is true or not, but I passing it on to everyone else.

Tom Stolte


> Hi All! I saw this posted and thought I'd share it here too. Someone
> has been joining communities with the nickname YAHOO COMMUNITY
> MONITOR, and then posting the following:
>
> Yahoo Community Monitor says:
>
> Yahoo Group Managers have been receiving a few complaints about
> your group. I am required to join your site and monitor it for about
> one month. I will not do anything to damage or ruin your site, I am
> only required to monitor it. The only thing required of you is to
> accept my application and make me a Manager of your group for the
> time I am there. If you cannot meet these requirements, Yahoo will
> have to shut your group down.
> __________________________ X ____________________________
>
> DO NOT!! make this person a manager! SHE/HE is a fake, and has been
> deleting groups once made a manager. BAN the member immediately.
> Please let other groups know about this problem.
> __________________________ X ____________________________
Group: S-Trains Message: 21853 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/13/2002
Subject: Re: Info About A Hoax Within YahooGroups
What next? Don't people have anything better to do? Pity! John B.



--- In S-Trains@y..., "TCS" <oddballdecal@l...> wrote:
> Don't know if the is true or not, but I passing it on to everyone
else.
>
> Tom Stolte
>
>
> > Hi All! I saw this posted and thought I'd share it here too.
Someone
> > has been joining communities with the nickname YAHOO COMMUNITY
> > MONITOR, and then posting the following:
> >
> > Yahoo Community Monitor says:
> >
> > Yahoo Group Managers have been receiving a few complaints about
> > your group. I am required to join your site and monitor it for
about
> > one month. I will not do anything to damage or ruin your site, I
am
> > only required to monitor it. The only thing required of you is to
> > accept my application and make me a Manager of your group for the
> > time I am there. If you cannot meet these requirements, Yahoo
will
> > have to shut your group down.
> > __________________________ X ____________________________
> >
> > DO NOT!! make this person a manager! SHE/HE is a fake, and has
been
> > deleting groups once made a manager. BAN the member immediately.
> > Please let other groups know about this problem.
> > __________________________ X ____________________________
Group: S-Trains Message: 21854 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/13/2002
Subject: Re: Faster on AC than DC question
Tom Jarcho asks:
>Why would a field wound motor (or is it a wound field motor?) run faster
>with a 50 PIV diode bridge than with a 100PIV bridge? Can someone >explain
this?

As to which it is, field wound or wound field, apparently the world does not
agree. There are as many sources calling it the first as the second. I've
always heard "Field Wound", but it makes more sense that it be "Wound Field"
since the field winding is offered as an alternative to a permanent magnet.
Field Wound sounds like it was not made in the shop but in the meadow!

This from Fluke: All motors work by passing a current through a piece of
wire surrounded by a magnetic field. The action of passing a current though
the wire generates a magnetic field which opposes the surrounding field -
hence there is movement. It is the way this surrounding field is generated
that divides motors into different categories.

The three main types of DC motors are: Permanent Magnet, Shunt wound, and
Series wound.

Permanent Magnet

These motors have a permanent magnet which generates a magnetic field.
Rotating in this field is the armature through which current is passed. The
armature will be wound from only a few turns of quite thick copper, giving
it a low resistance. When a voltage is applied this will draw a very large
current from the battery. When the motor starts to rotate the current will
drop due to an effect called "back EMF". This is the voltage generated by
the armature as if the motor was a dynamo. . . . If load is applied to
the motor the speed of rotation would drop, this would also cause the back
EMF voltage to drop, and hence the drive voltage to the armature to
increase. This increase in armature current would then cause the motor to
try and speed up. i.e. the motor will try and maintain a constant speed.

Shunt wound

These are very similar to a permanent magnet except the magnetic field is
supplied by passing a current through a fixed coil positioned around the
armature. Operation is exactly the same as the permanent magnet motor,
except these motors also have the possibility of field current control. If
the field current is reduced the motor speeds up. If the field current is
reduced the magnetic field will drop causing the back EMF voltage to drop.
This increase in the drive voltage to the armature will cause the motor to
speed up until the back EMF is once again at its previous level. However,
by using a high field current the motor will turn quite slowly but with very
high torque.

Series Wound (American Flyer Universal Motors)

In a series wound motor the field coil is in series with the armature coil.
The field coil is wound from thick wire to cope with the large armature
current and has a resistance of only a few ohms. The advantage of this type
of motor is its high torque output. Consider a series motor running with a
given load. If the load is now increased the motor will slow causing the
back EMF to drop. As with the previous type of motor the current drawn will
be the difference between the voltage applied and the back EMF produced.
This large increase in current will cause both the armature and the field
magnetic strength to increase, resulting in a very high output torque. Hence
this motor is used in high torque situation i.e. starter motors. The
disadvantages are the large current drawn will soon flatten batteries, and
if run for prolonged periods the motor will soon overheat. The other point
that should be noted is the motor without substantial modification will only
run in one direction as reversing the armature current will also reverse the
field current.

As you can impute from the above paragraph, the wiring of the reverse unit
in a Flyer locomotive acts to change the relationship of the field coil and
armature. This "substantial modification" is what reverses the motor
direction. This motor works in both AC and DC because it depends upon the
relationship of two windings and the complementary or opposing forces
created by either type of electricity in those windings. However, its
speed, and torque, will be affected by the type and voltage of the power
used. Conversion of AC to DC can result in losses due to resistance,
reactance and inductance. While voltage in converted DC may be higher than
the source AC, the available current may be lower. Solid state devices,
such as full wave bridges, can be a source of impedance to the flow of
electrons. PIV, or Peak Inverse Voltage, is only a measure of the maximum
allowable AC potential working against the stopping or valving action of the
diode prior to failure. Simplified, DC is created when the diode only
passes the part of a wave that is positive while stopping the part that is
negative, thus arresting the alternating action of AC. It does so within
limits. If the water pushing against the dam is more powerful than the
structure, it breaks. PIV is a measure of where it breaks.

I suspect that the 100 PIV rectifier in question was not rated for as much
current capacity as the 50 PIV, so it burned off, in heat energy, some of
the power applied to it. You need to look at all the specs of the bridge
you use. It is not inconceivable that a small, lightweight, low current
bridge has a high PIV while a big, sturdy one has a lower PIV.

How's that for an answer?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21855 From: Gary Chidester Date: 11/13/2002
Subject: Thanks
Thanks for all of the ideas for shelving. I appreciate the new ideas and
the answer to my question.

gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 21856 From: Spots350SL@aol.com Date: 11/13/2002
Subject: Train Display Case
hello-
A few Years ago I was naive and I ran HO trains, when I was enlightened by S
gauge I wanted to find a way to still enjoy the appearance of my HO yet not
run them. So I built a Wall mountable Train display case with the Brass HO
track built into the shelves. It was a pain to make since I could not install
the shelve until I nailed down the track and I could not nail down the track
until I varnished the shelves anyway, I have uploaded a PIC of my case, here
it is, <A HREF="http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/s-trains/vwp?.dir=/Michael+T%27s+Train+table.&.src=gr&.dnm=HO+train+Display+Case.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/s-trains/lst%3f%26.dir=/Michael%2bT%2527s%2bTrain%2btable.%26.src=gr%26.view=t">Yahoo! Photos - Train Case</A> If this link does not work, I have it in
the photo section under Michael T's Train Table, it is the last PIC on the
folder (#17). Hope it inspires you, Thanks
Michael T
Chicago, IL


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21857 From: Dayna Warner Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: window project
Hi all - I am working on some window graphics for one of the kits (Vollano Vistas,a corner cast iron front structure) and have been told that the following are all real live S scale modelers. Now since this is an S scale structure I thought it would be fun to use actual S scale professionals/modelers in the office windows. (Livingstone Towers has dealers and manufacturers in the windows with their permission of course)
If any of the following people are on this list and will allow me to use their names I would appreciate it. Just send me an email. If there are any other doctors/lawyers/indian chiefs that would like to see their name added you are welcome.
James Soberman D.D.S. - dentist
Gary Klimen D.D.S. - dentist
Gary Copenhaver D.D.S. - dentist
Geoffrey Graber M.D. - cardio-vascular surgeon
Richard Rooney M.D. - vascular surgeon
Jeffrey Freeman Esq. - lawyer
Larry Sokol Esq. - lawyer
Charles Taylor Esq. - lawyer
Michael Anderson Ph. D. - psychologist
Donald DeWitt Ph. D. - physiologist
Thanks
Dayna Warner CEO
Trainstuff LLC
www.trainstuffllc.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21858 From: Don Thompson Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: Train Display Case
Dear Michael,
Is the case wide enought for S scale flat cars and gondolas?
Don

Spots350SL@... wrote:

> hello-
> A few Years ago I was naive and I ran HO trains, when I was enlightened by S
> gauge I wanted to find a way to still enjoy the appearance of my HO yet not
> run them. So I built a Wall mountable Train display case with the Brass HO
> track built into the shelves. It was a pain to make since I could not install
> the shelve until I nailed down the track and I could not nail down the track
> until I varnished the shelves anyway, I have uploaded a PIC of my case, here
> it is, <A HREF="http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/s-trains/vwp?.dir=/Michael+T%27s+Train+table.&.src=gr&.dnm=HO+train+Display+Case.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/s-trains/lst%3f%26.dir=/Michael%2bT%2527s%2bTrain%2btable.%26.src=gr%26.view=t">Yahoo! Photos - Train Case</A> If this link does not work, I have it in
> the photo section under Michael T's Train Table, it is the last PIC on the
> folder (#17). Hope it inspires you, Thanks
> Michael T
> Chicago, IL

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
2002 Christmas Car, 2 & 3 bay PS-2s & Composite hoppers are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/3bayps2_in_stock.html
http://www.showcaseline.com/2bayps2_in_stock.html
http://www.showcaseline.com/CompositeHoppers/compositehoppers.html



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21859 From: mlmarmer Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: A.C. Gilbert
Good Morning Mr. Yardley,

I saw in the Washington Post this morning your review on a biography on A.C. Gilbert. I was the one who notified the S List group on Yahoo, last year, about your story on Gilbert's American Flyer trains and many from the list wrote to you. I think we all tried to get you to become a member of the list, but you politely turned us down.

Well, I will have to let the list know about your writing in the Post today about the book.

Thanks for reviewing the book, as I, 47 and a collector of AF, know very little about him, so I will have to get the book, after I finish the Ambrose book on the Trans Continental RR that really changed American.

I did see several TV interviews with Tom Brokaw, about his new book. The book sounds really interesting also.

Sincerely,

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21860 From: mlmarmer Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: The Erector Set's Inventor, Working Hard at Play (washingtonpost.co
Link to Mr. Yardley's review on A.C. Gilbert's biography.

Mike

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51911-2002Nov13.html


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21861 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: Train Display Case
All I could find at the link was a picture of a train table.

Spots350SL@... wrote:
>
> hello-
> A few Years ago I was naive and I ran HO trains, when I was enlightened by S
> gauge I wanted to find a way to still enjoy the appearance of my HO yet not
> run them. So I built a Wall mountable Train display case with the Brass HO
> track built into the shelves. It was a pain to make since I could not install
> the shelve until I nailed down the track and I could not nail down the track
> until I varnished the shelves anyway, I have uploaded a PIC of my case, here
> it is, <A HREF="http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/s-trains/vwp?.dir=/Michael+T%27s+Train+table.&.src=gr&.dnm=HO+train+Display+Case.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/s-trains/lst%3f%26.dir=/Michael%2bT%2527s%2bTrain%2btable.%26.src=gr%26.view=t">Yahoo! Photos - Train Case</A> If this link does not work, I have it in
> the photo section under Michael T's Train Table, it is the last PIC on the
> folder (#17). Hope it inspires you, Thanks
> Michael T
> Chicago, IL
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21862 From: David Dewey Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: A.C. Gilbert
I have only read part of the book so far, but I think that Bruce Watson's
review seems to be "spot on." I don't know about the rest of the list
members, but I don't recall having problems assembling the erector set
stuff, except a lack of the "right" pieces, and wishing I had the 12-1/2
set! The other building toy, seldom mentioned, is/was Tinkertoy, which my
childhood friend had a LOT of--except purple rods, we didn't have those. I
remember building Ferris wheels and all sorts of operating things with them.
They didn't have the realism of the erector set parts, but we still got to
create things. That's what I see missing in most toys today, the only
creating seems to be done on a computer screen.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21863 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: The Erector Set's Inventor, Working Hard at Play (washingtonpo.
In a message dated 11/14/02 7:18:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mlmarmer@... writes:

<< Link to Mr. Yardley's review on A.C. Gilbert's biography.

Mike

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51911-2002Nov13.html >>


A less than glowing review -- which you will notice if you read to the end of
it. I enjoyed the book thoroughly, but Yardley is correct in the sense that
one is left wanting more in terms of research and detail than what was
covered. The review in the Forbes Nov. 11 issue was more enthusiastic, if a
bit kinky in how in begins.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 21864 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Non train toys
David Dewey said,
The other building toy, seldom mentioned, is/was
Tinkertoy
what I see missing in most toys today, the only
creating seems to be done on a computer screen.

There is at least one current toy where a child can be
creative, that's LEGGO. And I think someone IS trying
to revive Erector Sets at long last. Tinkertoy and
Lincoln Logs are out again, perhaps there is some hope
for the youth in the future.

jfred


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21865 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: A.C. Gilbert
David,
You are right on the money. We are not teaching our children to have and
use an imagination OR to use their hands and minds to create things. It is
one thing to make something on a screen, entirely different to actually do it
"Hands On". The computer may be the the downfall of an entire generation, if
we are not careful.
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21866 From: Mark Koenig Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: 938 Caboose Trucks/Couplers
Hi all,

This may have been asked and answered before, but does anyone know
why some 938 caboose's have one of the couplers missing? They appear
to have been cut off and I've seen it on 5 different ones now. Did
the factory cut the coupler mounting tabs off the trucks so they only
had to put a coupler on the one end? Are there other cars like
this? Any thoughts????

"S"incerely
Mark
Roseville, MN
Group: S-Trains Message: 21867 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys
Hi:
I think Leggos were available in the 50's.
Rance Velapoldi

JFrederick Roberts wrote:

>David Dewey said,
>The other building toy, seldom mentioned, is/was
>Tinkertoy
>what I see missing in most toys today, the only
>creating seems to be done on a computer screen.
>
>There is at least one current toy where a child can be
>creative, that's LEGGO. And I think someone IS trying
>to revive Erector Sets at long last. Tinkertoy and
>Lincoln Logs are out again, perhaps there is some hope
>for the youth in the future.
>
>jfred
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21868 From: jack nichol Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Original shipping box?
Hi all!

I just picked up some LN/M Flyer items that came in a larger cardboard box.
Is there any way I can confirm whether or not it is the original shipping
box for the 10 accessories (the wooden non-operating accessories) and 5205W
set? The boxes fit in this box very well so I'm thinking maybe it is
original to the contents.

There is a stamp on the box stating that it originated/was made in Chicago
and there is some lettering "F-L-53332". Does anyone know if this is an
original? It does not have the Flyer name on it anywhere, but it smells old
and looks old. I know that doesn't mean it's related to the items but I
thought it might help.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks!

www.NicksTrains.com



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Group: S-Trains Message: 21869 From: Don Thompson Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] SHS Composite Hoppers
Dear Tom,
Thank you for the nice product mention. As one of our dealers, you should
know that the PRR and LV are now sold out (as well as the fc red unlettered
cars). We will be running new numbers for the PRR and LV as well as making
more of the undecs and adding two new roadnames, Monon and Clinchfield.
Don
PS Christmas cars are now all spoken for too! (only 6 days after we unloaded
the container, boy did I misjudge the demand on these items.).

"t.hawley" wrote:

> The new S scale composite hoppers from S Helper Service are out, and they
> look pretty good. The composite cars were the cars with steel framework but
> wood planking for sides. I just finished converting an Ann Arbor car to
> scale, a matter of simply changing wheelsets and putting on the KD couplers.
>
> All the brake parts appear to be there in 3-D, including a brake pipe that
> runs along the bottom of the car on the right side where you can see it..
> When you take one of these cars out of the Styrofoam and want to put it
> back, be sure the brake wheel is to the right. Extra stirrups included,
> just in case.
>
> The discharge chute doors actually open, although the real car latches that
> hold them closed are there but non-functioning; the doors are held closed by
> something else that doesn't show when they're closed.
>
> I tried it with and without the spacers that replace the AF-type couplers,
> and both ways the couplers seem to be just slightly too high. Maybe I'm
> doing something wrong.
>
> You will be able to see this car on the Southeastern Michigan S Gaugers'
> layout at the train show at the MSU Pavilion this coming Sunday. Someone
> may even have some for sale.
>
> Tom Hawley -- Lansing Mich

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
2002 Christmas Car, 2 & 3 bay PS-2s & Composite hoppers are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/3bayps2_in_stock.html
http://www.showcaseline.com/2bayps2_in_stock.html
http://www.showcaseline.com/CompositeHoppers/compositehoppers.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 21870 From: Paul Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Train Shelf
I needed more shelf space so I built one from Popular.
I did not stain it, just gave it 3 coats of polly.

http://s-scale.org/mod.php?mod=userpage&page_id=28
I included a picture and a diagram.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21871 From: Steve Blancard Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: MTH Semaphore
Has anyone tried using the MTH semaphore with AF? I read a positive
review of it here:

http://www.thelynx.com/railscan/articles/reviews/mthsemaphore/

It may be a little large, but the price is right and the reliability
sounds rock solid. Can it be wired up to work properly ?

Thanks,
Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 21872 From: Paul Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Train Shelf - new link (oops)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21873 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys
As I remember, my sister and I played with the trains for hours on end using
a plastic brick named American Bricks I think. These were the hard plastic
much like Legos and came in different kits for houses and such.
Can anyone remember those and if that is the right name for them.
Howard

>Hi:
>I think Leggos were available in the 50's.
>Rance Velapoldi
>
>JFrederick Roberts wrote:
>
>>David Dewey said,
>>The other building toy, seldom mentioned, is/was
>>Tinkertoy
_______________________________________________________________________
Internet Access, Shared & Dedicated Web Hosting.
Colocation and Domain Name Registration at http://www.lanset.net
Group: S-Trains Message: 21874 From: jack nichol Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: Original shipping box?
Hi!

I've provided a photo of the proposed shipping box. Follow (or copy and
paste) the link below:

http://members.cox.net/nickstrains/AmerFlyer.htm

Again, any help is appreciated!

Thanks!



Today's shortcut:
Ctrl key + C = copy highlighted text
Ctrl key + V = paste copied text


>From: "jack nichol" <trainspeak@...>
>CC: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [S-Trains] Original shipping box?
>Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:27:05 +0000
>
>Hi all!
>
>I just picked up some LN/M Flyer items that came in a larger cardboard box.
>Is there any way I can confirm whether or not it is the original shipping
>box for the 10 accessories (the wooden non-operating accessories) and 5205W
>set? The boxes fit in this box very well so I'm thinking maybe it is
>original to the contents.
>
>There is a stamp on the box stating that it originated/was made in Chicago
>and there is some lettering "F-L-53332". Does anyone know if this is an
>original? It does not have the Flyer name on it anywhere, but it smells
>old
>and looks old. I know that doesn't mean it's related to the items but I
>thought it might help.
>
>Any help is appreciated.
>
>Thanks!
>
>www.NicksTrains.com
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
>s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


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Group: S-Trains Message: 21875 From: JConn444@aol.com Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys American Bricks
I remember the American Bricks. I still have mine but no box or instructions.
They were molded in red plastic and about the size of dominoes. There were
also the half size ones. Windows were molded in white plastic and could be
hinged on the red bricks. The doors I do not remember much about. Seems like
there was also a card stock green roof material. You are right, you sure
could spend hours playing with those. I had mine in the early to mid 1950s.
John Conn


>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21876 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: Train Shelf
The same shelf can be built using 1 x 4....why rip off 1/4"? the grooves
are nice but I found I never needed them....cars set fine on the shelf
without them...I painted mine gray to look like ballast....and at 8' long
when the paneling is added to the back ( prefinished ) they are quite
strong....without the grooves I can display other things....MTH Mallets,
etc...Airplane kits....Trucks....Etc...Don't make A major project when
something simple will do fine...These have worked fine for 17 years and will
be moved into the new train room this winter......Bob...( don't you have a
photo of my shelves in one of your pics? )
Group: S-Trains Message: 21877 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys
In a message dated 11/14/02 8:05:58 PM, hjinrosvle@... writes:

<< As I remember, my sister and I played with the trains for hours on end
using
a plastic brick named American Bricks I think. These were the hard plastic
much like Legos and came in different kits for houses and such.
Can anyone remember those and if that is the right name for them.
Howard >>

You remember the bricks and the name correctly, Howard. There also was a
wooden precursor (nearly identical in shape and function), as well. A
neighbor friend of mine when I was young used American Bricks on his flyer
layout, too.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 21878 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Semaphore
In a message dated 11/14/02 7:46:56 PM, splitdorf@... writes:

<< Has anyone tried using the MTH semaphore with AF? I read a positive
review of it here: >>

I have been using one in a 0 gauge modular layout environment activated with
a Lionel IR controller. The signal has operated flawlessly for hours on end.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 21879 From: David Dewey Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: 938 Caboose Trucks/Couplers
Mark,
I believe it was a cost-cutting measure. One of the 938s that came with
my brothers' sets (one a 307, the other a 355 powered, bottom-line sets) is
like that, but the other has both couplers. Yep, it's factory!
S'
David D.
PS the streamline obs car is that way too, no rear couplers on any!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21880 From: David Dewey Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys
Howard,
Yep, my Godmother had those, I played with them a lot, as they wouldn't
let me play with their daughter's AF (with the barrel loader!). The bricks
were the wooden ones. Years later I tried to buy the trains, but their
father didn't want me to have them, so set the price way above market, or
anything I could afford--I only learned later that he did that so I wouldn't
get them; his daughter told me about it, and that she still didn't really
forgive him for that, as she thought I should have gotten them. I don't know
where they went. He did let me buy all their rubber roadbed though.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21881 From: Bill Lane Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Southwind B & O EM-1
Hi All,

Jettie asked me to announce that the shipment of the B & O EM-1 arrived
today. He is going to start shipping them early next week after all the
models are completely inspected. Please call him directly with any
questions. 813-752-1696

I am getting 2 major new pieces in about 1 month. Life is VERY good!

Thanks
Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 21882 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Semaphore
No, but I've had lot of fun using Z-Stuff IR detectors to control
Highway Flashers at a crossing on one of our club modules. The IR sure
simplifies wiring! The detectors have red and green LEDs and are
rudimentary signals in themselves. Their output is put into a Z-Stuff
relay to operate the flashers. Could just as easily be a semaphore.

rbubeck327@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/14/02 7:46:56 PM, splitdorf@... writes:
>
> << Has anyone tried using the MTH semaphore with AF? I read a positive
> review of it here: >>
>
> I have been using one in a 0 gauge modular layout environment activated with
> a Lionel IR controller. The signal has operated flawlessly for hours on end.
>
> RB
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
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--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21883 From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: "Portable" Layout Questions
Greetings,

I've read some posts this week concerning bench work for portable
layouts. I do a layout each Christmas season at church, and try to
increase it each year. My goal for '02 is 4 loops with a cow-on-track
separate loop.

In my mind, I want to build 4 tables 2'X8'. Assemble them in a large "O"
making an 8'X12' table with an open center. (Future expansion)

Reading about the foam board tempts me, but I think it would get to beat
up from moving and storing. I'm considering an 11/32" CD grade of
plywood, split lengthwise, then mounting it on a 1X4 frame with 1X3
crosspieces. When assembled, the end tables would dowel and bolt to the
side tables allowing a flat, solid surface.

I haven't tried yet, but can I run 4 parallel loops of Flyer tracks on 2'
wide tables? From the wealth of experience of this group, someone surely
has tried this.

Okay - Your comments, please.

BTW - David - I'm planning on using the 1X3s as they were FREE!

Thanks in advance,

Bill

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Group: S-Trains Message: 21884 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Northerns
Fellow Esser's,
Did all Northerns have pul-mor rims? If not, Can the new vulcanized rims be
put on the ones without pul-mors.
Lastly, does anyone have a northern for sale. If anyone has one for sale,
would you please send your e-mail to Frank Timko at FTIMKO@.... Thanks
for the help

Chris The Trainnut


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21885 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: "Portable" Layout Questions
HI Bill
I use a similar method to the one you describe for my portable show layout.
As it gets put in the back of my pickup and tavels a lot of miles to shows,
I can say that the 1x4 frame and plywood top has held up great. I have 2 peices
that are 2.6 feet by 8 feet each that hinge on commercial door hinges in the
middle to fold for storage or travel. I thought I would use the hinges to take
it apart by removing the pins, but have found that I don't have trouble puting
it in by myself off a dolly in one piece. I run three loops of track with a
little room to spare using AF in the middle, then SHS and AM on the outer loops
to show people the different types in action. I covered the top with a cheap
green outdoor carpet from Home Depot that looks good and keeps the sound down.

Good Luck
Howard


>Greetings,
>
>I've read some posts this week concerning bench work for portable
>layouts.
_______________________________________________________________________
Internet Access, Shared & Dedicated Web Hosting.
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21886 From: David Dewey Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: "Portable" Layout Questions
Bill,
Hmm, good work!! My favorite four-letter word!
As for the table tops, have you considered MDO plywood? This has a paper
face on at least one side for signs, etc. I get it here at the damaged goods
place fairly cheaply, and it is often 7-ply instead of 5-ply. We use it to
build museum displays, it paints like a sheet rock wall, so make a very nice
finish.
S'
David
PS some 70 degrees and sunny here this afternoon!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21887 From: stargate7@cox.net Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys American Bricks
At 08:35 PM 11/14/2002, John Conn wrote:
>I remember the American Bricks. I still have mine but no box or instructions.
>They were molded in red plastic and about the size of dominoes. There were
>also the half size ones. Windows were molded in white plastic and could be
>hinged on the red bricks. The doors I do not remember much about. Seems like
>there was also a card stock green roof material. You are right, you sure
>could spend hours playing with those. I had mine in the early to mid 1950s.

I remember those too ! I was a little kid in the mid-60's and had a blast
with them. I remember a plastic train I had, similar in size to O scale,
and my dad would temporarily put down double strips of masking tape to
represent "rails" for my train. I remember using American Bricks to make
(among other things) a signal "bridge" .... then, there were angled pieces
I would stick on the cross piece to represent the "hoods" of the signal lights.

I also had a large set of plastic "steel" girders which you could build up
into a small skyscraper .... then there were assorted window panels that
snapped onto the outside.

I loved both of those sets .... the girder set and the American Bricks....
and now wish I had them for my younger children (three babies -- not
triplets), and my grandchildren that are beginning to spring forth from my
older children. If only such things were still made ....... but alas, the
toy world nowadays is flooded with meaningless stuff that leaves little or
nothing to children's imagination(s). I wish I had those bricks and
girders now ....

- Dave G.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21888 From: David Dewey Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys American Bricks
Hey Dave G.
I still have my Kenner Girder & Panel, Bridge & Turnpike set! The
plastic panels have become very brittle though. I played with mine soo much
that I asked my mom to hide it for two weeks so I would do other things
instead! I used to use it on my winter layouts as an industrial park, don't
know if I have any pictures of that now. I recently found most of the "guts"
to one set at a yard sale, but these girders are not "primer red" like mine,
think they're blue? Can't dig them out right now to find them.
This also brings back a memory that Christmas morning, I opened this
set, and no batteries for the motor! Had to wait two days before a store was
open to get them! My friend with all the tinkertoys also got the same Kenner
set that year (we also both got etch-a-sketches, wonder if our parents
compared gift lists?)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21889 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: Re: Plastic toy bricks....
**(((As I remember, my sister and I played with the trains for hours on end using
a plastic brick named American Bricks I think. These were the hard plastic
much like Legos and came in different kits for houses and such.
Can anyone remember those and if that is the right name for them)))**


I too, remember little red and white building bricks,...not sure of the Brand name though.

Rick.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21890 From: David Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys American Bricks
I had those too! I looked for ages for a replacement as well. I wore
mine out I played with it so much. I finally after several years
found a set in the tube at Renningers - Allentown, PA at a toy
dealer. Brought back memories dumping that tube out... :)



--- In S-Trains@y..., JConn444@a... wrote:
> I remember the American Bricks. I still have mine but no box or
instructions.
> They were molded in red plastic and about the size of dominoes.
There were
> also the half size ones. Windows were molded in white plastic and
could be
> hinged on the red bricks. The doors I do not remember much about.
Seems like
> there was also a card stock green roof material. You are right, you
sure
> could spend hours playing with those. I had mine in the early to
mid 1950s.
> John Conn
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21891 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Bob's Shelf was Re: [S-Trains] Train Shelf
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/robertc/robert_conner.html
--- robert allen conner <rcon7@...> wrote:
> The same shelf can be built using 1 x 4....why rip
<SNIP>
> winter......Bob...( don't you have a
> photo of my shelves in one of your pics? )
>


=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 21892 From: Knight, Gene Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys
Do you guys remember the Remco Project Yankee Doodle rocket launcher? It had 5 or 6 rockets that rose from under two clear doors...a warning siren etc. The rockets actually shot from the launcher. I had one of those and I loved it. I see one on Ebay once in a while and will get one sooner or later. Remco also made a Bulldog Tank and Fighting Lady Battleship. I had those too.....great toys! They'd never sell them today though. I also had the red bricks being talked about. I had great parents that bought me all the neat stuff. I am still running the 21084 they got me too.

Gene

> ----------
> From: David Dewey
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 9:13 PM
> To: hjinrosvle@...; Rance and Bente Velapoldi; JFrederick Roberts; s-trains@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Non train toys
>
> Howard,
> Yep, my Godmother had those, I played with them a lot, as they wouldn't
> let me play with their daughter's AF (with the barrel loader!). The bricks
> were the wooden ones. Years later I tried to buy the trains, but their
> father didn't want me to have them, so set the price way above market, or
> anything I could afford--I only learned later that he did that so I wouldn't
> get them; his daughter told me about it, and that she still didn't really
> forgive him for that, as she thought I should have gotten them. I don't know
> where they went. He did let me buy all their rubber roadbed though.
> S'
> David D.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21893 From: John G Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Semaphore
I have been using a different MTH semaphore - the tinplate version
number: 30-1075 (I believe it may be replica of the Lionel 151).

See:

http://www.krrb.com/krrbtrains/mthrailop.html

This semaphore even looks a little like the original Flyer semaphore,
however it operates very differently. It only has 1 solenoid and
stays in the lower (red) position only when continually energized.
When power is removed, a spring returns the arm to the up position.
The unit is made of die cast metal & is well constructed.

The Flyer semaphore had two solenoids, so it could stay in either
position after momemtary application of power. The Flyer semaphore
also had a switch contactor built in which this MTH does not.

I'm using the MTH semaphore with a Lionel IR controller to add some
action to the layout - it essentially operates as the train passes by.

John Gasal


--- In S-Trains@y..., Steve Blancard <splitdorf@1...> wrote:
> Has anyone tried using the MTH semaphore with AF? I read a positive
> review of it here:
>
> http://www.thelynx.com/railscan/articles/reviews/mthsemaphore/
>
> It may be a little large, but the price is right and the reliability
> sounds rock solid. Can it be wired up to work properly ?
>
> Thanks,
> Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 21894 From: theodore weiler Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: Plastic toy bricks....
Thanks all for the trip down memory lane. The wooden ones were red and
yellow, at least mine were. Wonder where they went??

Ted W.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21895 From: David Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys
YES! I had that rocket base toy too, and the tank. Dad was a vet, so
those types of toys appealed to him for me. I just recently went back
and watched the old home movied we had converted to VHS. Boy I wished
I had a lot of those toys back in EX condition now. I never got my
American Flyer train, but in 1964 I did get an Aurora slot car set.
That too was used so much as to make it useless. Today I have a huge
race track in the basement and a ton of cars. My original cars are
replaced two times over. Still tons of fun!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 21896 From: Ron Inscho Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: Plastic toy bricks....& other stuff Where they went ?
I know where most of our neat stuff went. As I caught My mom in the act of
throwing out all of my flyer& some other stuff that she decided I no longer
needed. How wrong she was !!!!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "theodore weiler" <flier61@...>
To: "Rick Evans" <comic@...>
Cc: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: Plastic toy bricks....


Thanks all for the trip down memory lane. The wooden ones were red and
yellow, at least mine were. Wonder where they went??

Ted W.



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Group: S-Trains Message: 21897 From: mark.p.baker@bt.com Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: KING'S CROSS RAILWAY BOOK FAIR
A note to let you know that it is time for the Autumn 2002 King's Cross
Railway Book Fair again, which will be held at Keen House, the headquarters
of the Model Railway Club (http://www.themodelrailwayclub.org/index.html),
at 4, Calshot Street, London, N1, on Saturday 23rd November 2002 between
11:00 and 15:30. Admission is just £1 and refreshments will be available all
day from the Club's licensed bar. Further details are available from me
direct and details of other similar events may be found on the ProRail Tony
Hillman's 'Railway Collectors Events Diary' at
http://www.prorail.co.uk/events/index.htm.


Mark P. Baker.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21898 From: Gregg Mummert Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: American Hi Rail Doodlebug
Does anyone have any information on these?
I saw them at York and liked what I saw, but there was no one around to get
any info. I also wrote to them several weeks ago, but no response (which
makes me reluctant to order).
Thanks
Gregg Mummert




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Group: S-Trains Message: 21899 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: CTT's Give-a-way...
Well,...as usual, no "S" products offered with the new CTT give-a-way!!
Gee,...I can't wait to enter!!
Yeah, I know,....more "O" people out there, yadda-yadda-yadda,...heard it all before...
still,...why can't they offer, maybe for at least TWO prizes,...the option of "O" or "S" ??
Can't be THAT hard!!
My gripe for the day!

Rick.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21900 From: Ron Inscho Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: American Hi Rail Doodlebug
I have 1 of these & it looks really good, It is powered by the same motor /
truck as used it the Aero train, it comes without couplers on either end, so
I installed an American models frt.knuckle coupler on the rear & pulla 1
coach with no problem. And yes they & Tom Hodgeson are both hard to get a
hold of, just keep trying.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg Mummert" <gmummert@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 1:05 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] American Hi Rail Doodlebug


Does anyone have any information on these?
I saw them at York and liked what I saw, but there was no one around to get
any info. I also wrote to them several weeks ago, but no response (which
makes me reluctant to order).
Thanks
Gregg Mummert




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Group: S-Trains Message: 21901 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: American Hi Rail Doodlebug
where can I see A picture? Don't remember it at York....where was it? Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Inscho" <ronnat@...>
To: "S Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] American Hi Rail Doodlebug


> I have 1 of these & it looks really good, It is powered by the same motor
/
> truck as used it the Aero train, it comes without couplers on either end,
so
> I installed an American models frt.knuckle coupler on the rear & pulla 1
> coach with no problem. And yes they & Tom Hodgeson are both hard to get a
> hold of, just keep trying.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gregg Mummert" <gmummert@...>
> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 1:05 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] American Hi Rail Doodlebug
>
>
> Does anyone have any information on these?
> I saw them at York and liked what I saw, but there was no one around to
get
> any info. I also wrote to them several weeks ago, but no response (which
> makes me reluctant to order).
> Thanks
> Gregg Mummert
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
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>
>
>
>
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> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
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>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21902 From: V KOSOBIECKI Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Non trains
Hi; Talking about bricks and blocks...... Did you know that A. C. Gilbert Co. made a "Anchor Blocks" and "Erector-Brik" ?? I believe it was in the early 50's.... I think they almost the same. They also made a Domino set............ Vin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21903 From: John G Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Semaphore
=> Steve wrote: ..... but was concerned about keeping the solenoid
powered for long periods for fear of burning it out. Do you use yours
only to hold a train for a short period ?

Steve,

The MTH 30-1075 semaphore comes with a simple gravity powered
switch. So yes, if you stop your train on it, it could burn up the
solenoid after a while.

My fix was to control it using a Lionel infrared controller # 153IR.
This unit will time out even if a train is stopped in front of the
controller. I use several of the Lionel infrared controllers on my
layout to control crossing gates, danger bells, etc so they do not
burn out. The controllers sell for about $25.

I wouldn't recommend buying the MTH infrared controllers. The ones I
used were easily fooled by ambient light and will not time out if a
train is stopped in front of it. Plus they are made of plastic
(Lionel is diecast).

Also, this version of the MTH semaphore cannot control trains like
the old Flyer semaphores - it has no switching capabilities.

Hope this helps!

John
Group: S-Trains Message: 21904 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, November 17, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page http://s-scale.org/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21905 From: mlmarmer Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Wronged Side of the Tracks (washingtonpost.com)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56984-2002Nov14.html

This is not really related to model trains, but is something that many of you do, I am sure, taking rail trips, and getting pictures of the train as it goes by. It talks about police scrutiny with these trips due to terrorism.

I thought it might be of interest to some of you.

Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21906 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: Wronged Side of the Tracks (washingtonpost.com)
Guys and Gals...You know it is really getting sad how our FREEDOM is getting
erroded.......I love, not only trains (God and Wife first) but
airplanes.....planes and trains of all types, sizes,
locations...etc....After reading the article I wonder about the places I
go...Lately I messed around the old BC&G Dundon yards in Clay....I walked
around the back of A hanger not to long ago to get a good look at an F86 and
Mig15 parked side by side...I like to go down into the New River gorge where
the road crosses the tracks at the river...Haven't encountered A train
yet....To think that soon all of the Train Viewing areas, Airports, Etc will
be OFF LIMITS to me and you makes me sick...I know we have to have security
in these times....I recently felt that uneasy feeling...Getting gas near
Richmond during the time of the shootings...I now find I do feel a little
better with my .380 semi auto in my pocket as I travel around (I am
LEGAL...have A CCL License )....We talk of toys when we were kids....I had
them to....we played cowboys and indians....we built forts....played tag and
hide n go seek ,till late in the night under the street light....We felt
safe...and in going to school I had A choice of paying .15 for the bus to
school or make better time by walking, by myself, thru the B&O yards, Thru
the NYC yards, thru the roughest section of the black part of town out the
other side to my high school....Never was I Afraid....early in the am or
late at night...People didn't bother you then...That was the 50's.....Now we
all have fears.....Some People are nuts.....I guess it goes back to the
current educational system..."If you place A bad apple in with good ones, it
will become good too", "Or a violent person in with peace loving they will
become peaceful," "Or if you take a bucket 1/2 full of water and punch a
hole in it....it will fill up!!!"...Life is not like that.....SORRY.....Now
we have bad apples, violent people, and we are out of
patience....(water)...You guys can throw me off the list if you like....But
I WANT PEACE.....I just want to let of some of my frustrations at not being
able to do what I like doing as long as no one is harmed by my
actions..........Just my 2 cents.....And in those days 2 cents got some good
candy.....I guess I need to watch some old Twilight Zones!!!!!!.....S O R R
Y.......Bob Conner
Group: S-Trains Message: 21907 From: David Dewey Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: Plastic toy bricks....& other stuff Where they went ?
Ron,
What about the rest of the story--did you save your AF from the
Mom-o-Tossit?
I know that's what happened to all of our comic books. Fortunately she
did know that I wanted the AF! How could she not know, with me spending all
my high school winters (or at least most of them) building my layout in
cabin 14?--and then setting up three-loop layouts under the Christmas tree
when I'd come home for college break!
I even had some AF on my dorm desk shelf; definitely not being "cool"--if
I'd only had pocket protectors, I'd have been a nerd!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21908 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: Plastic toy bricks....& other stuff Where they went ?
Dave,
I've seen cabin 14. Have they removed the crime scene tape yet? :)
Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21909 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: Plastic toy bricks....& other stuff Where they went ?
Dave & ALL,
I really have been to Dunsmuir & cabin 14 is really in
a nice area. A place to stop if ever traveling on I-5 north of Lake Shasta.
Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21910 From: Doug Peck Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: for Chris the Train-nut
Hey Chris---
I could answer some questions for you once in awhile if you didn't have me
on your "banned" list !!!
What's that all about??? Any email I send you bounces with the notation you
have me "banned".
Geezzz...I'm getting a complex here!
<<G>>

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours - Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays: 2-5 PM (EST), and 7-9 PM.
Saturdays: 2-5 PM.
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please.)
Website: www.portlines.com
E-mail: doug@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 21911 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Gearing Down the LTI?AF power truck.
The stock Lionel/AF power truck has very poor low speed performance due to
it's gearing. This is a simple modification that uses a replacement Lionel
motor that drops right in and a gear from one of their other engines with a
simple bracket that is easy to make.

The low end speed and starting performance is much smoother. The high end is
scale speed.

Here is a link that shows the modification.
http://www.tuveson.com/geargp/gearing_down_lti__american_flyer.htm

Enjoy...

Carl
Group: S-Trains Message: 21912 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys American Bricks
Oooh, me too, me too!

Actualy, not. I never had no stinkin' bricks.
All I had was American Flyer trains.
Anybody know if there's a list where I can talk about those?

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21913 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/15/2002
Subject: plastic toy bricks
I used the plastic brick blocks as dwarf signals. Painted the outside
black, and the two inner square locking tabs red and green.

I called them "block signals".

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21914 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/16/2002
Subject: Talk about AF Trains....??
Yeah Chris,...check the little toy red brick site,...probably talking about Flyer right now!! ;-)


Rick.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21915 From: Gregg Mummert Date: 11/16/2002
Subject: Re: American Hi Rail Doodlebug
Thanks for the reply.
They were at York in the White Hall near John Wicks (?) table but no one was
around. This was on Saturday - I missed them on Friday if they were out.
Gregg

> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:55:37 -0500
> From: "Ron Inscho" <ronnat@...>
>Subject: Re: American Hi Rail Doodlebug
>
>I have 1 of these & it looks really good, It is powered by the same motor /
>truck as used it the Aero train, it comes without couplers on either end,
>so
>I installed an American models frt.knuckle coupler on the rear & pulla 1
>coach with no problem. And yes they & Tom Hodgeson are both hard to get a
>hold of, just keep trying.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Gregg Mummert" <gmummert@...>
>To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 1:05 PM
>Subject: [S-Trains] American Hi Rail Doodlebug
>
>
>Does anyone have any information on these?
>I saw them at York and liked what I saw, but there was no one around to get
>any info. I also wrote to them several weeks ago, but no response (which
>makes me reluctant to order).
>Thanks
>Gregg Mummert
>


_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21916 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/16/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys American Bricks
In a message dated 11/16/02 1:31:17 AM, busyboy@... writes:

<< I never had no stinkin' bricks. All I had was American Flyer trains.
Anybody know if there's a list where I can talk about those? Chris >>

Sure beats the bloody long string of crummy ebay posts. <g>

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 21917 From: becks@ia4u.net Date: 11/16/2002
Subject: American Hi Rail Doodlebug
Can someone please provide pictures, cost and contact info?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21918 From: Al Paolozzi Date: 11/16/2002
Subject: Re: plastic toy bricks
My First building for my Flyer toy train layout was a log cabin. Made out
of, you got it, Lincoln Logs. I haven"t heard anybody mention them, or did
I miss it. Al Paolozzi
----- Original Message -----
From: <jarcho@...>
To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 11:17 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] plastic toy bricks


> I used the plastic brick blocks as dwarf signals. Painted the outside
> black, and the two inner square locking tabs red and green.
>
> I called them "block signals".
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21919 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/16/2002
Subject: bricks, logs, & Flyer...
I looked again at the picture of me at Christmas 1962,...(there is a pic at S-Trains and is in CTT's "Toy Train Memories" book),..besides the Plasticville buildings, there is a Lincoln log house in the pic, as well as (or so it looks), two red brick buildings!!


Rick.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21920 From: Bill Sandrus Date: 11/16/2002
Subject: remove me temporarily
going in the hospital for a short while


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21921 From: THOMAS E HILLERY Date: 11/16/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1648
Group:
You guys have forced me to do it again. I went to my mom's house and
dug out my set of American Plastic Bricks by Elgo ( a 290 piece set#725).
I don't know what would look good on the test layout but I am going
to build something.
Mom throw out my comic books, broke my 3 shaft motorized model PT boat,
and my handmade B-17 and the only reason I had my AF was they were put
away in my Dad's shop. My son wants a PlaystationII and
this weeks computer. Why can't they be like we were -perfect in every
way- Tom Hillery
Group: S-Trains Message: 21922 From: Ron Inscho Date: 11/16/2002
Subject: Hodgson List
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21923 From: waldootten Date: 11/16/2002
Subject: Howdy from a newbie
Just a note to say hey from a new member of this group. I live in the
Chicago suburbs and regularly attend trains shows from both the
Midwest TCA and the GATS at DuPage County Fairgrounds once a month.
It is nice to be able to find a group of fellow Flyer nuts online --
there is a lot of valuable information here for me. Both of those
shows are nice, but way toooo much Lionel and not enough AF.

Just a thought -- has anyone ever/recently made an attempt to buy the
American Flyer brand from Lionel -- someone that would really do
something with it? Seems to me Lionel might be holding down the
number of AF products to place greater importance on and lead new
collectors to its own stuff.

Any thoughts?

PK
Group: S-Trains Message: 21924 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/16/2002
Subject: Re: Howdy from a newbie
***(((Just a thought -- has anyone ever/recently made an attempt to buy the
American Flyer brand from Lionel -- someone that would really do
something with it? Seems to me Lionel might be holding down the
number of AF products to place greater importance on and lead new
collectors to its own stuff.)))***

Welcome aboard!!!
And yes,....it has been mentioned many, many, many, many times before!!
They (Lionel) are getting out a few more AF items then in the past,..a few.


Rick.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21925 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: For Doug Peck Hope this works
>
> >> Doug, I'm sorry. I was getting some really bad pornography e-mails
>> somehow and couldn't get them stopped. I had blocked all e-mails from all
>> strangers by putting everyone I wanted e-mails from on my OK list. For
>> some reasons, a few e-mails wouldn't come through. I have changed to open
>> all e-mails again. The brief time I had things blocked must have worked
>> because I'm not getting those e-mails now. I didn't mean to make you
>> paranoid Doug. Thanks for the concern though.   
>>
>> Chris The Trainnut
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21926 From: David Dewey Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: Banned recipients--Was: For Doug Peck Hope this works
I once won an eBay auction, and never heard from the guy, even after
repeated emailings. About three weeks after the auction, in a last-ditch
effort to reach the seller, I found an alternative email address for him. He
posted back that he had sent me many emails, and was wondering why I didn't
respond! We finally figured out that his usual email address was from a
domain that my ISP had decided to block because of virus infected emails
that originated there! I have the choice of no blocking, but went to the
blocking info site, and they block LOTS of other stuff I have no interest in
recieving, so I live with it. I still get some I don't need, things like
enlargening certain parts of one's anatomy, but that's what the "delete" key
is for!
Required train content: The eBay auction was for some American Flyer
stuff!
Oops, wait, then this is about eBay and trains...
Oops.
How about, "Don't forget flyer chat tonite, when we can talk about Rick's
BBQ and other important stuff??"
OOps. . .
Gotta go, helpin' fixin' brunch today at Church (Get the box, I'm HELPING!)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21927 From: Bob Tufts Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: Re: Original shipping box?
Jack -

I'm fairly certain the box is not one from the Gilbert factory. For one
thing, it came from Chicago and that is too far for Gilbert to go for
something so easily found as cardboard boxes. Second, Gilbert put either
their own name and address on the boxes, or they numbered the boxes for
specific uncatalogued sets (such as 9991, 9992, etc.). Third, Gilbert never
used five digit box numbers starting with a "5". Those numbers were
reserved for Gilbert Appliances. Its probably just an old box that someone
found to be the right side to store the buildings and the 5205W

Bob Tufts

-----Original Message-----
From: jack nichol <trainspeak@...>
Cc: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, November 14, 2002 12:30 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Original shipping box?


>Hi all!
>
>I just picked up some LN/M Flyer items that came in a larger cardboard box.
>Is there any way I can confirm whether or not it is the original shipping
>box for the 10 accessories (the wooden non-operating accessories) and 5205W
>set? The boxes fit in this box very well so I'm thinking maybe it is
>original to the contents.
>
>There is a stamp on the box stating that it originated/was made in Chicago
>and there is some lettering "F-L-53332". Does anyone know if this is an
>original? It does not have the Flyer name on it anywhere, but it smells
old
>and looks old. I know that doesn't mean it's related to the items but I
>thought it might help.
>
>Any help is appreciated.
>
>Thanks!
>
>www.NicksTrains.com
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21928 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, November 17, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page http://s-scale.org/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21929 From: William Porter Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: Meters
Hi Folks,

Does anyone know of a source for panel meters? I am interested in AC both current and voltage. I can find AC panel meters at The Little Shack of radios, but, the range is not too convenient for toy trains. Of course, there are amply many DC meters available with decent ranges. In the old days, I knew that any meter can be made to do the job with the correct connections and a few other parts. Alas, I have no idea what those connections and parts might be. For me, the best bet seems to be the purchase of a couple of properly wired panel meters.

Any idea would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Brother Bill Porter

wpporter@...

561 791 1781

15212 79th Court N
Loxahatchee, FL 33470


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21930 From: rkuepper Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: Re: Meters
Hi Bill -

I would start with http://www.allelectronics.com/

I generally find most of what I need there.

Dick

----- Original Message -----
From: "William Porter" <wpporter@...>
To: "S-Trains List" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 6:16 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Meters


> Hi Folks,
>
> Does anyone know of a source for panel meters? I am interested in AC both
current and voltage. I can find AC panel meters at The Little Shack of
radios, but, the range is not too convenient for toy trains. Of course,
there are amply many DC meters available with decent ranges. In the old
days, I knew that any meter can be made to do the job with the correct
connections and a few other parts. Alas, I have no idea what those
connections and parts might be. For me, the best bet seems to be the
purchase of a couple of properly wired panel meters.
>
> Any idea would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Brother Bill Porter
>
> wpporter@...
>
> 561 791 1781
>
> 15212 79th Court N
> Loxahatchee, FL 33470
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21931 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: "Looking for a reason to switch to "S" gauge"..
Interesting thread on the OGR forum..

"Looking for a reason to switch to "S" gauge"..

http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=63160042&f=57660482&m=8646079561


Carl
Group: S-Trains Message: 21932 From: lou342ac Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: AM Switches
I'm thinking about re-doing my layout. With some recent purchases of
American Models sets I now have accumulated enough 'AM' track to do
two loops. I've been looking at the 'AM' switches and they appear to
have a long insulated gap at the frog of the switch.

Does anyone on this list use 'AM' switches and operate 'LTI' built AF
Diesel engines. If you do operate these engines, do you have a
problem of losing power when going through the frog of this switch?

Does any one manufacture a track pin to connect 'AM' track to 'AF'
switches?

My present layout I use Gargraves track with 'AF' switches.
Lou
Group: S-Trains Message: 21933 From: Gregg Mummert Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: Re: American Hi Rail Doodlebug
> Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:43:34 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
> From: becks@...
>Subject: American Hi Rail Doodlebug
>
>Can someone please provide pictures, cost and contact info?
>
I wrote to Tom Hodgson at:
American Hi Rail
37695 N. Jeanette Ct.
Spring Grove, IL 60081

As I recall from the ones I saw at York, the PRR was about $235, the NYC
slightly higher, and the NH slightly higher than the NYC - probably due to
the paint schemes.
Let us know if you have any success.
Gregg Mummert

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21934 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: Re: AM Switches
Lou,
I use AM turnouts and have very few problems with the gap. I have a fix for
the LTI AF power truck that lengthens it's pickup and will improve it's
reliability at:

http://www.tuveson.com/GeepTruckMod/AF-GPTruckFix.htm

Carl

-----Original Message-----
From: lou342ac [mailto:lou342ac@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 7:24 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] AM Switches


I'm thinking about re-doing my layout. With some recent purchases of
American Models sets I now have accumulated enough 'AM' track to do
two loops. I've been looking at the 'AM' switches and they appear to
have a long insulated gap at the frog of the switch.

Does anyone on this list use 'AM' switches and operate 'LTI' built AF
Diesel engines. If you do operate these engines, do you have a
problem of losing power when going through the frog of this switch?

Does any one manufacture a track pin to connect 'AM' track to 'AF'
switches?

My present layout I use Gargraves track with 'AF' switches.
Lou




S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21935 From: mlmarmer Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: Bob Board Layout
Hello all,

Does anyone know if Bob Board still runs his layout during the Christmas season? It has been years, since I have been by Lancaster, PA and saw his layout in full operation.

Thanks,

Mike




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21936 From: Michael T Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: Atlantic shells
Anyone out there have extra Atlantic shells? (Preferably plastic).
After seeing some of these monster locos I was inspired to create my
very own. I already have a 303 and a 307 and I had considered merging
them but their shells are in very good condition with perfect #'s (I
could not hurt them). plus I would feel better starting on a fair
condition body, I don't care if the #'s are gone. well, if you have
any old shells contact me and maybe we can make a deal. thanks.

Michael T
Chicago, IL
Group: S-Trains Message: 21937 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: Plastic Atlantic shells
Anyone out there have extra Atlantic shells?
(Preferably plastic).
After seeing some of these monster locos I was
inspired to create my
very own. I already have a 303 and a 307 and I had
considered merging
them but their shells are in very good condition with
perfect #'s (I
could not hurt them). plus I would feel better
starting on a fair
condition body, I don't care if the #'s are gone.
well, if you have
any old shells contact me and maybe we can make a
deal. thanks.

Michael T
Chicago, IL

Hobby Surplus still has them

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21938 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: K-Line S Gauge
Well folks, we can move the K-Line rumor to fact.
K-Line will be coming out with S gauge in their next
catalogue. I ran into Maury Klein at the Neuse River
Model Railroad Show in Raleigh yesterday and he would
not deny the rumor, and said to look for their next
catalog. One of his distribution-center employees,
who sells K-Line at shows, went further to indicate
this is indeed true. Also, one of Maury's best
friends, who is an American Flyer collector and also
was a vendor at the show and with whom Maury spent a
considerable amount of time st the show, beamed with
joy when I asked him about the K-Line rumor.

In talking with another individual, it was indicated
that this might be current K-Line cars with S gauge
trucks. However, some of their cars are based on 3/16
inch cars.

I encouraged Maury to offer a beginner set. The
dealer mentioned the Bershire and Big Boy. I guess we
will just have to wait and see.

Maury spent some time walking along and admiring the
26 by 38 foot S gauge layout in operation by the
Carolinas Division of the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers,
although he did not stop and talk with any of our
members.

Finally, the K-Line production of AF track is finally
completed and sitting in a warehouse in China. Maury
indicated that it will arrive in time for Christmas,
but this seems unlikely. K-Line has been out of the
track (straight, wide radius curve, and extra long
straights) for about 6 months.

Joe

=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21939 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 11/17/2002
Subject: Re: "Looking for a reason to switch to "S" gauge"..
Carl and all,
Interesting to the max! I briefly scanned it but everything I read was
positive. You almost feel they want to jump ship.
Oh Boy! Trains!...................Herky1950
Obie Bell
Group: S-Trains Message: 21940 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Re: AM Switches
Hi Carl:
Thanks very much for all your help to so many people on this list, and
the great information you have been packing into your web-site. It
never ceases to amaze me when I look at your answers and site to see how
much you are accomplishing and trying, and how useful the information is.
Rance Velapoldi

Carl Tuveson wrote:

>Lou,
>I use AM turnouts and have very few problems with the gap. I have a
fix for
>the LTI AF power truck that lengthens it's pickup and will improve it's
>reliability at:
>
>http://www.tuveson.com/GeepTruckMod/AF-GPTruckFix.htm
>
>Carl
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21941 From: wintermutedm Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Re: "Looking for a reason to switch to "S" gauge"..
I noticed in the thread someone mentioned the rumor that K-Line might
buy out the American Flyer name from Lionel.
Combined with Mr. Haenne's confirmation of K-Line getting into S-
gauge, maybe they will...

How exciting!

Denny


--- In S-Trains@y..., Carl Tuveson <carl@w...> wrote:
> Interesting thread on the OGR forum..
>
> "Looking for a reason to switch to "S" gauge"..
>
> http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?
a=tpc&s=63160042&f=57660482&m=8646079561
>
>
> Carl
Group: S-Trains Message: 21942 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Re: "Looking for a reason to switch to "S" gauge"..
In a message dated 11/18/02 10:50:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
dmerritt@... writes:

<< I noticed in the thread someone mentioned the rumor that K-Line might buy
out the American Flyer name from Lionel. Combined with Mr. Haenne's
confirmation of K-Line getting into S-gauge, maybe they will...>>

K-Line getting into S gauge is apparently going to happen (probably using
some of their 0-27 tooling). The unfounded rumer on the OGRR board about
Lionel selling the AF line is not a likely occurrence.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 21943 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Re: Original shipping box?
Hi,
Did Gilbert ever use a box that they used DECALS on??I found one that
Has American Flyer Then under it on a separate decal 785 coal loader.
there are no other marks(Like Mfg or Made in, Etc) Looks like it may have
fit in a master shipping carton. Mike S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21944 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line S Gauge
I just sent this e-mail to K-Line...why don't we all start it....Maybe it
will do some more good...Bob Conner

"Where do I send my 200.00 Deposit for the new "s" guage items...Engines and
Cars....Please let me know so I can send the cc info...Thanks

Robert Allen Conner"


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Haenn" <joestrainrepair@...>
To: "S Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 12:20 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] K-Line S Gauge


> Well folks, we can move the K-Line rumor to fact.
> K-Line will be coming out with S gauge in their next
> catalogue. I ran into Maury Klein at the Neuse River
> Model Railroad Show in Raleigh yesterday and he would
> not deny the rumor, and said to look for their next
> catalog. One of his distribution-center employees,
> who sells K-Line at shows, went further to indicate
> this is indeed true. Also, one of Maury's best
> friends, who is an American Flyer collector and also
> was a vendor at the show and with whom Maury spent a
> considerable amount of time st the show, beamed with
> joy when I asked him about the K-Line rumor.
>
> In talking with another individual, it was indicated
> that this might be current K-Line cars with S gauge
> trucks. However, some of their cars are based on 3/16
> inch cars.
>
> I encouraged Maury to offer a beginner set. The
> dealer mentioned the Bershire and Big Boy. I guess we
> will just have to wait and see.
>
> Maury spent some time walking along and admiring the
> 26 by 38 foot S gauge layout in operation by the
> Carolinas Division of the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers,
> although he did not stop and talk with any of our
> members.
>
> Finally, the K-Line production of AF track is finally
> completed and sitting in a warehouse in China. Maury
> indicated that it will arrive in time for Christmas,
> but this seems unlikely. K-Line has been out of the
> track (straight, wide radius curve, and extra long
> straights) for about 6 months.
>
> Joe
>
> =====
> Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
> 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
> Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
> Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
> American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
> Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
> joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa
>
> __________________________________________________
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> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21945 From: Knight, Gene Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Availabilty of American Flyer
It is no wonder there aren't more people into American Flyer and S gauge in general. The past few weekends I went to a number of hobby stores carrying trains. The walls were filled with Lionel. The shelves were filled with other O and O-27 manufacturers. In two shops.....I saw ONE American Flyer car. Being a part of Lionel...you'd think you would see at least a moderate amount of cares etc on a shelf or something. How can anyone get interested in S gauge and buy S gauge if they don't even see it? No...I didn't ask the owner and I know I was wrong for that but I was really angry. I will go back to them in the next weeks for other supplies etc.

Gene
Group: S-Trains Message: 21946 From: mark.p.baker@bt.com Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: KING'S CROSS RAILWAY BOOK FAIR
A note to let you know that it is time for the Autumn 2002 King's Cross
Railway Book Fair again, which will be held at Keen House, the headquarters
of the Model Railway Club (http://www.themodelrailwayclub.org/index.html),
at 4, Calshot Street, London, N1, on Saturday 23rd November 2002 between
11:00 and 15:30. Admission is just £1 and refreshments will be available all
day from the Club's licensed bar. Further details are available from me
direct and details of other similar events may be found on Tony Hillman's
'Railway Collectors Events Diary' at
http://www.prorail.co.uk/events/index.htm.


Mark P. Baker.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21947 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Re: Availabilty of American Flyer
**(( How can anyone get interested in S gauge and buy S gauge if they don't even see it?))**

That is one of the problems of getting new people into "S",...we S'ers know where to look, (SHS, AM, Etc.)...
But to have someone walk into a train store and say,..."Oooo,...I like THAT size!"...and walk out
with some S gauge goodies is tough when not many stores carry S !!!

Rick.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21948 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1650
A.C. Meters. Purchase one 0-20 volt meter, use a 1 ohm, 10 watt,
resistor in series with the test track, and measure the voltage across
the resistor meter reading will = amps ( 2.5 volts = 2.5 amps )drawn.
This works for short periods, as the resistor heats up it will affect the
reading.

Jerry 77-11644

________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21949 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: More on K-Line S Gauge
I just received the following information from K-Line.
Not as promising as I would like, but might be a step
in the right direction. I pleaded with Maury on
Saturday for an entry-level S gauge set. Apparently,
not just yet.

<Hi: It appears we are doing multi road names on a
<boxcar and a tank car. These are our small series
<freights for which we have updated and designed S
<gauge trucks and couplers. We have no locomotive in
<the works now nor will the Big Boy be offered in S
<gauge. The cars are larger than Gilbert, but should
<find acceptance at some level-perhaps entry.
<
<
<
<Nick Ladd
<Director of Sales

Now it will be up to the S gauge community to see if
they support this effort and, unlike Lionel, perhaps
make it grow--or whether they will dismiss it as more
Lionel "O gauge with S trucks".

Joe


=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21950 From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Re: More on K-Line S Gauge
Yo:

That's a bummer. I really don't like the idea of taking an existing k-line
o-gauge car and converting it to S-gauge. I actually don't really like even
Lionel's S-gauge stuff.

The stuff coming out of all the other S-gauge manufactures (S-Helper,
American Models, Des Planes just to name a few is the stuff they should be
comparing with and building like.

I'm a hi-rail operator and have purchased a ton of stuff over the past 4
years. Prior to that I was purchasing a ton of stuff in O-gauge. I really
like the direction that S is going, more detail, better quality, better
operating reliability.

Build a K-line on S-wheels doesn't cut it for me. I my opinion, if K-line
does that they will fail in the S market.

Tommy

-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Haenn [mailto:joestrainrepair@...]
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 4:01 PM
To: S Trains
Subject: [S-Trains] More on K-Line S Gauge


I just received the following information from K-Line.
Not as promising as I would like, but might be a step
in the right direction. I pleaded with Maury on
Saturday for an entry-level S gauge set. Apparently,
not just yet.

<Hi: It appears we are doing multi road names on a
<boxcar and a tank car. These are our small series
<freights for which we have updated and designed S
<gauge trucks and couplers. We have no locomotive in
<the works now nor will the Big Boy be offered in S
<gauge. The cars are larger than Gilbert, but should
<find acceptance at some level-perhaps entry.
<
<
<
<Nick Ladd
<Director of Sales

Now it will be up to the S gauge community to see if
they support this effort and, unlike Lionel, perhaps
make it grow--or whether they will dismiss it as more
Lionel "O gauge with S trucks".

Joe


=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com

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All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21951 From: AF336 Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Fw: Check out the Christmas Express link
President and Mrs. Richard M. Nixon Plate: $17Something that should have been S.....

----- Original Message -----
From: MSN Featured Offers
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21952 From: david.avedesian@limbachinc.com Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Thanksgiving in Jackson, MI
I am going to be at my brother-in-law's home in Jackson, MI for
Thanksgiving. I would love to see some operating layouts. Does anyone in
the area know of layouts that are open in any gauge and S-Gauge in
particular? Friday is my open day for visiting.

Also, are there any train shows on Friday? And if all else fails, can
someone suggest some train stores within an hour's drive.

We travel back to MD by car on Saturday. It takes us 9 hours on Thursday
AM to get to MI and if we left on Sunday, it would take us a week to get
home. Therefore we leave to go back on Saturday. Travel is a little more
sane on Saturday.

Thank you, David



************************************************************************
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************************************************************************
Group: S-Trains Message: 21953 From: AF336 Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Check out the Christmas Express link
The link was with a picture and it stripped the whole thing....here is the
link to the train.

http://www.eshop.msn.com/eshopframe.aspx?merchId=2862&catId=0&u=http%3a%2f%2
fwww.collectiblestoday.com%2fct%2fproduct%2fprdid-49039.jsp


----- Original Message -----
From: "keith kuzma" <keefer1_us@...>
To: "AF336" <AF336@...>
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Fw: Check out the Christmas Express link


> Hey I need a plate,can you give me a link? Keith
> --- AF336 <AF336@...> wrote:
> > President and Mrs. Richard M. Nixon Plate:
> > $17Something that should have been S.....
Group: S-Trains Message: 21954 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Re: Howdy from a newbie
Wellcome to the list. I live in the western Suburbs and also
regularly attend the gats at Dupage. I collect and operate
only "true" flyer made by ACG. Sorry, but i have no desire to own any
AF made by LTI. Just my preference, John B.




--- In S-Trains@y..., "waldootten" <waldootten@a...> wrote:
> Just a note to say hey from a new member of this group. I live in
the
> Chicago suburbs and regularly attend trains shows from both the
> Midwest TCA and the GATS at DuPage County Fairgrounds once a month.
> It is nice to be able to find a group of fellow Flyer nuts online --

> there is a lot of valuable information here for me. Both of those
> shows are nice, but way toooo much Lionel and not enough AF.
>
> Just a thought -- has anyone ever/recently made an attempt to buy
the
> American Flyer brand from Lionel -- someone that would really do
> something with it? Seems to me Lionel might be holding down the
> number of AF products to place greater importance on and lead new
> collectors to its own stuff.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> PK
Group: S-Trains Message: 21955 From: Steve Blancard Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Dead switch
I’ve got a switch that appears to be dead. It does nothing when moving
the controller arm to any position. The controller lights work, so I
swapped the switch with another and that one works fine. So I know the
controller is OK. I don’t have any specs on the switch wiring and coil
so I hope you guys can help me out.

I pulled the coil out of the switch housing and made sure all wires were
well soldered. The coil has 3 connections: one on each end and one in
the middle. With a multimeter I read 3.4 ohms from one end connection
to the other. From the middle connection to one end I read 1.7 ohms.
But from the middle connection to the other end I read an OPEN. I
assume this should read about the same as the other side – about 1.7
ohms. Is this correct? It seems one half of the coil is open.

If this is correct and the coil is bad, does anyone have a “parts”
switch with a good usable coil to spare?

Thanks,
Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 21956 From: David Dewey Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line S Gauge
Robert,
Uh, what if the new item is a $1400 loco?? I'd be hard pressed to follow
up my deposit!!
Still, I like yer style!
S'
David "el cheapo" Dewey
Group: S-Trains Message: 21957 From: schnoodely_odiliy_o Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: I'm in Atlanta
Hi Guys!
I'm in Atlanta and my hotel has free internet access! Cool!
Steve Pendleton, who lives here, is supposed to get in touch with
me. Where are you, Steve??????

I'm in the Renaissance Hotel on West Peachtree. The phone number is
(404) 881-6000. I'm in Room 702. Call me, Steve!

We went to the Coca-Cola Museum today. The K-Line hand cars and Coke
freight set are for sale in the gift shop along with an HO trolley on
a straight track with an auto-reverse mechanism. The Coke buildings,
reminiscent of Dept. 56 and LeMax were also for sale. I've seen them
locally in Sears. There was a Bowling Alley that was real cool with
chasing lights. Check it out. They also had a book of Coke related
cars, trucks and trains which included an American Flyer set of
passenger cars and locomotive dating to 1929. The logo said Coca-
Cola was as pure as, I don't remember, maybe mountain springs, vestal
virgins, something. They gave a value of $1800 for the set with the
box and said it was extremely difficult to find. The cars were the
little 6 inchers like the "Joy Line" ones we see so much of.

That's it for now. I will check in every day to the Yahoo Groups
site and view the posted list. I can't get e-mail here, but I can
see posts and answer them.

Steve, where are ya?

Ta,
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21958 From: Dan Brindell Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: Re: Availabilty of American Flyer
Gene, you are exactly right about the lack of S in train shops being a
problem. You were also right when you said that we all need to ask the
owners for more S. Maybe if they get enough requests from paying customers,
it will get their attention.

Your post reminded me of seeing the December issue of "Classic Toy Trains"
magazine. Near the front there was a full-page ad from S-Helper Service. A
few pages later there was another full-page ad with the heading "NASG and
S-Scale Today". This page was a grouping of ads from NASG and certain S
suppliers. IMHO, grouping all the ads on one page was a great idea which
really makes the point that new products are coming out in S.

Best of all was an article by Mark Edwards that illustrated how to build a
portable around-the-tree layout using foam board and S-Trax. It was a
creative idea for a very cool-looking small layout, and the article made me
want to go right out and build one. (Of course, the editors had to point
out in a sidebar that it could also be built with O gauge RealTrax, but so
what? The point about S was made.)

The individuals responsible for these ads/articles deserve our thanks for
helping to put S on the map.

Dan Brindell

----- Original Message -----
From: "Knight, Gene" <knight@...>
To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 12:49 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Availabilty of American Flyer


> It is no wonder there aren't more people into American Flyer and S gauge
in general. The past few weekends I went to a number of hobby stores
carrying trains. The walls were filled with Lionel. The shelves were filled
with other O and O-27 manufacturers. In two shops.....I saw ONE American
Flyer car. Being a part of Lionel...you'd think you would see at least a
moderate amount of cares etc on a shelf or something. How can anyone get
interested in S gauge and buy S gauge if they don't even see it? No...I
didn't ask the owner and I know I was wrong for that but I was really angry.
I will go back to them in the next weeks for other supplies etc.
>
> Gene
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21959 From: eric.reis Date: 11/18/2002
Subject: 2 extra cars for sale
I have one extra of theSHS Nickel Plate NASG convention cars I will let go
to the first $50 (slow USPS shipping included to USA)
This is the 52002 number version New in Box.


I have an RSSVP SHS IGA Refer cars that I will let out for $45 shipped
to USA. New in box

Thanks

Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21960 From: jack nichol Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: 586 station
Hi!

I have a 586F platform station but my label has a blue stamped "F" rather
than a label with a red font "F" like most others that I have seen.

Any clue why that might be? Also did one of these 586's come without a
cart?

A photo can be seen via this link:

http://members.cox.net/nickstrains/AmerFlyer.shtml (the box is actually
under the 273 station).

Thanks!

Greg


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Group: S-Trains Message: 21961 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line S Gauge
I know its a gamble....but who knows!!!! Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
To: "S Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "Joseph Haenn"
<joestrainrepair@...>; "robert allen conner" <rcon7@...>
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] K-Line S Gauge


> Robert,
> Uh, what if the new item is a $1400 loco?? I'd be hard pressed to
follow
> up my deposit!!
> Still, I like yer style!
> S'
> David "el cheapo" Dewey
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21962 From: Victor Bereskin Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1650
Try Mouser Electronics (www.mouser.com).


----- Original Message ----- Message: 5
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:16:24 -0500
From: "William Porter" <wpporter@...>
Subject: Meters

Hi Folks,

Does anyone know of a source for panel meters? I am interested in AC both
current and voltage. I can find AC panel meters at The Little Shack of
radios, but, the range is not too convenient for toy trains. Of course,
there are amply many DC meters available with decent ranges. In the old
days, I knew that any meter can be made to do the job with the correct
connections and a few other parts. Alas, I have no idea what those
connections and parts might be. For me, the best bet seems to be the
purchase of a couple of properly wired panel meters.

Any idea would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Brother Bill Porter
Group: S-Trains Message: 21963 From: SMASTER636@aol.com Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: 293/21099 Steam Locomotive
Group:

What is the difference between an AF 293 Steam Engine and a 21099 Steam
Engine? Thank you.

Joe Fariello
Cooper City, Florida



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21964 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: Re: 293/21099 Steam Locomotive
About $100, for the later model 293

Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: SMASTER636@...
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 7:19 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] 293/21099 Steam Locomotive


Group:

What is the difference between an AF 293 Steam Engine and a 21099 Steam
Engine? Thank you.

Joe Fariello
Cooper City, Florida



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21965 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: Re: 293/21099 Steam Locomotive
About 300.00....bob
----- Original Message -----
From: <SMASTER636@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 7:19 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] 293/21099 Steam Locomotive


> Group:
>
> What is the difference between an AF 293 Steam Engine and a 21099 Steam
> Engine? Thank you.
>
> Joe Fariello
> Cooper City, Florida
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21966 From: Alex Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: Re: Dead switch
Hi Steve:

It's been awhile since I did one, but re-winding the switch coil is a snap.

Get the correct wire, then uncoil the open or burned-up coil. You can use
the bad wire to ascertain the length of the new wire you'll need. The length
isn't critical, so if you lose or gain a turn or two it's nothing to worry
about. Wind your new coil, re-install it, and have fun.

== Alex in Maine
AI2Q .-.-.



-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Blancard [mailto:splitdorf@...]
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 7:51 PM
To: S- Trains list
Subject: [S-Trains] Dead switch


I’ve got a switch that appears to be dead. It does nothing when moving
the controller arm to any position. The controller lights work, so I
swapped the switch with another and that one works fine. So I know the
controller is OK. I don’t have any specs on the switch wiring and coil
so I hope you guys can help me out.

I pulled the coil out of the switch housing and made sure all wires were
well soldered. The coil has 3 connections: one on each end and one in
the middle. With a multimeter I read 3.4 ohms from one end connection
to the other. From the middle connection to one end I read 1.7 ohms.
But from the middle connection to the other end I read an OPEN. I
assume this should read about the same as the other side – about 1.7
ohms. Is this correct? It seems one half of the coil is open.

If this is correct and the coil is bad, does anyone have a “parts”
switch with a good usable coil to spare?

Thanks,
Steve Blancard




S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21967 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1651
DEAD SWITCH

Steve, get a copy of Bob Hannon's" ( he is a member of this group)
"S-Gauge reference manual", it lists the specs on Flyer switch coils, It
is very easy to wind a new coil. I use a long bolt, chucked up in an
electric screwdriver to hold the coil.
Jerry 77-11644

________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 21968 From: knockbill Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: dead switch
Hi Steve.. I would look at a couple things with your switch coil
It seems you read twice as much resistance through the 2 coils,, Is
it possible you are putting your meter leads in different spots on
one coil when you read thru both?? Maybe your coil isn't open, but
just has a cold solder joint, and when you read thru both coils , you
measured past the bad joint and thru the 2nd coil......
Maybe, (I've seen this, usually on armatures), there is a cold joint
in the middle, and the reading is intermittant...
Did you check to see if the coils short out to the core or frame of
the switch....
If you do have a break in the coil wire , it could be near the end ,
& taking a wrap or 2 off & making a good connection, will be all you
need to do...
If all else fails just measure the wire & re wind it...
Good luck
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 21969 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: 283/21099
293: end commutator motor, four step reverse unit in tender, 5 wires
between loco and tender, plug and panel or direct wired green/gray/black.

21099: side commutator motor, two step reverse unit in loco, two prong
plastic plug from loco to tender, tender shell mold modified to accommodate
socket.
A few transition 293's may be found with 21099 mechanisms, or parts.

Tom jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 21970 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: Re: dead switch
If he is getting a reading at 3.4 thru the coil & 1.7 thru one side & then
an open thru the other there must be a cold joint. You cannot get a reading
thru the whole coil & not read an open on a side. If one side was open the
whole coil would read open. There has to be an error somewhere. Mike S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21971 From: Jay E. Mellon Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: For Sale - On30 Set
Semi-Blatant Ad:
I have a On30 Bachmann DRGW freight set for sale. Includes 2-6-0 steam engine in the "Bumble Bee" scheme; gondola; box car; flat car; caboose; DC power pack; loop of EZ HO gauge track (nickle silver in plastic roadbed); VHS tape with instructions. It is a beautiful set and has been test-run only. Am asking $100 (MSRP, $260). Yes, I know, this is not S. But it is close in physical dimensions.. it's main attraction. Buyer pays shipping + insurance. If interested, please contact off-list (jmellon@...).

Jay Mellon
New Orleans, LA
Group: S-Trains Message: 21972 From: Steve Blancard Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: Dead switch? It's alive!
Thanks to everyone who responded to my plea of help for my dead switch.
Under a magnifying glass I found a bad solder joint on one coil
connection from a previous owner's repair. He apparently didn't scrape
the coating from the magnet wire before attempting to dsolder it. Also
one of the terminal solder joints had a big glob of solder causing a
short the steel backing plate.

Regards,
Steve
Group: S-Trains Message: 21973 From: Steve Blancard Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: Magnet wire source
Someone who responded to my "dead switch" problem asked if I had a
source of magnet wire for rewinding coils. Sorry, but I forgot who it
was and deleted the e-mail. Anyway, here's a source of one pound
spools:

http://www.elexp.com/cbl_mg30.htm

Steve Blancard
Crustyfour
Group: S-Trains Message: 21974 From: THOMAS E HILLERY Date: 11/19/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1651
RE: the 293/21099
The 21099 has two position reverse switch on back of cab; air chime
whistle in tender; drawbar connected to trailing truck.
293 has 4 position reverse in tender,no whistle and separate drawbar
to screw on chassis. I also think there is a difference of commutator
types : disc or drum-- Tom Hillery
Group: S-Trains Message: 21975 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: Backdrop scenes
Hi All:
Has anyone used backdrops from Backdropwarehouse? How are they? I am
looking for some suggestions as to which are the best one or two to use
for ATSF type backgrounds, dry climate type, etc. Any suggestions? I
am checking their various pictures and have some ideas. Just would like
some verification from people who have actually used them. Tx in advance.
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)
Group: S-Trains Message: 21976 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: trains
Hi all
I misplace Jetties phone number in Florida. Can anyone give it to me.
Thanks
Howard
_______________________________________________________________________
Internet Access, Shared & Dedicated Web Hosting.
Colocation and Domain Name Registration at http://www.lanset.net
Group: S-Trains Message: 21977 From: HOWARD WESLEYIII Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: Gargraves S Gauge Switches
Hi Folks,
I am thinking of using Gargraves switches and track when building my new AF layout. Do any members use the switches and are there any problems with them? Thank you for your help. Carl

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21978 From: Gary Chidester Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: This has got to be rare?
I have never seen a caboose with a mother inside, isn't this very rare?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1788130203

gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 21979 From: Doug Peck Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] MicroMark
<<< From: "IronHorse" <cofa@...>
Subject: Modeling tools

I just got a real good catalog in the mail today.
It is called "Micro-Mark.
The company sells mini-tools of all kinds.
Great for us modelers that frequently work with small parts.

I never heard of the company until today.

It is 96 page catalog. The catalog is aimed at us modelers.

The Phone number for getting a copy is 800-225-1066

I have hundreds of catalogs. This would be one of the best ones.
>>>

Micro-Mark has been around for a long time.
Their quality is very good, and their service is good/quick.
A bit pricey....no big deals....but dependable.
I've bought product/tools from them for some time.

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours - Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays: 2-5 PM (EST), and 7-9 PM.
Saturdays: 2-5 PM.
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please.)
Website: www.portlines.com
E-mail: doug@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 21980 From: JConn444@aol.com Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: 1/64 Scale Cars at K-Mart
This may be old news to most but I just came back from our local K-Mart. I
always watch the diecast toys for my grandson. They have a 1/64 line of cars
made especially for K-Mart. Hoods and trunks open and they look pretty good.
Cars like 1958 Impala, 1963 Ford, 1957 Chrysler, 1969 GTO, etc. They are
individually packaged under the store brand of "Route 66." Prices were 2.99 -
4.99. John Conn


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21981 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: Re: This has got to be rare?
I must be missing something. Where is the Mother in the pictures?
John B.



--- In S-Trains@y..., Gary Chidester <GChidester@m...> wrote:
> I have never seen a caboose with a mother inside, isn't this very
rare?
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1788130203
>
> gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 21982 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: Gabe
Hey folks, does the AF Gabe have the same connections as the LTI one
does? If so, can anyone send me a copy or email me a picture? I will
pay for postage. Thanks,John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21983 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: Re: Gargraves S Gauge Switches
The older and newer Gargraves switches seem to be totally different
animals.

Older: I have lots of positive experience with the older Gargraves which
are a very gentle angle, some reasonably high switch number like 6 or
so. I even run some AM scale flange diesels thru them. They need a lot
of throw, like an NJ or Tortoise switch machine. I'm using NJ but would
prefer Tortoise for any new installations.

Newer: Seem like a low switch number (large angle). I have one but
never installed it- ought it for a specific spot and found I needed the
gentler angle of the older type so used one I had on hand. Switch
machine and controller integrated nicely. Can anyone comment on these
newer switches?

Are the older ones still available?

HOWARD WESLEYIII wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
> I am thinking of using Gargraves switches and track when building my new AF layout. Do any members use the switches and are there any problems with them? Thank you for your help. Carl
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 21984 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: Re: This has got to be rare?
I think he means motor, refering to the light socket

Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Brockmann" <hcopter51@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 5:56 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: This has got to be rare?


> I must be missing something. Where is the Mother in the pictures?
> John B.
>
>
>
> --- In S-Trains@y..., Gary Chidester <GChidester@m...> wrote:
> > I have never seen a caboose with a mother inside, isn't this very
> rare?
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1788130203
> >
> > gary
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21985 From: Wayne and Alice Beachy Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: Train Contest
Hi All,

I am working on a contest that RSSVP models has on their web page. It's a word scramble contest for train related words and lots of fun. Plus, you can win a model with this contest. Click on: http://www.rssvpmodels.com/index.html and then click on the contest.

Wayne


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21986 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: A. F. Rarity
Those of you who are looking for an early holiday gift might want to
check out Lloyd Ralston Gallery's auction this Sat. Nov. 23. There
are some nice Flyer items up for bid. The most interesting piece is
a 24794 Jefferson passenger car. My Greenberg guide (2001 edition)
lists it at $2300 in excellent condition. Now if anyone on the list
would like to buy it for me I wouldn't object! Check out the
following:

http://www.lloydralstontoys.com/catalogpages/catalog23.html

Scroll down to item number 446.

Jim Duncan
Group: S-Trains Message: 21987 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: 755 Talking Station
Anyone have a problem with getting the train to stop when the station
is activated? I have wired it as per instructions but train will not
stop in insulated section. I have engine locked in forward as
suggested also. Any ideas? Thanks in advance,John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21988 From: TCS Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals
730 L&N 4 bay coal car. Painted black with yellow lettering

731 SL-SF Bi-Centennial caboose set. Set will letter 3 cabooses. One is
red, white and blue. One is red and dark blue. One is painted light blue
and red. $6.25 N & HO scale, $12.25 S & O scale.

732 SL-SF gondola (built 9-19) Painted black with white lettering. Set
will letter 2 gons.

733 SL-SF gondola (6-36) Painted black or tuscon red. Set will letter 2
gons.

734 MKT 24 inch heralds. (pre deramus era) Set has 50 heralds on a
sheet. Red, white and black herald.

Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-.
N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These
should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so.

If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N,
HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $2.00 for p&h. You buy this catalog once,
then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring
binder.

---
---
Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals
N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals for prototype models
26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054
Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@...
Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/
Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/
NMRA Member #121756
Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
MPHS web site http://mopac.org/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21989 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 11/20/2002
Subject: Can motors for American Flyer Diesel Locos
The time has finally arrived. We will begin accepting your AC Gilbert Diesel
(both Geeps and Alcos) for can motor conversion on Jan 2, 2003.

There will be NO modifications to your locos. We will return all the original
parts (reverse unit, armature, field) to you. If you don't want them back, we
will make you a swap deal for them.

It is necessary to replace the reverse unit with a Dallee #400 electronic
reverse unit. You're going to love them.

All options are the installed price.
The options are as follows:
1. Single motor Geep or Alco ..................................$109.95
2. Dual motor Alco...................................................$149.95
3. Chassis rebushing...............................................$19.95
per truck
4. Directional LED headlights.................................$14.95 per
pair
5. Replacement pullmor wheels...(tentative)..........$19.95 per pair

Any axle gears that need replacing will be included in the rebushing price
but you will pay the cost of the gear.

You will also be responsible for shipping both ways.

Any questions, call 208-376-1159 or write to us here at Boss31@...

Dealer inquiries welcomed.

Thanks.....Steve & Sam......S-'n-S Trains....Boise, Idaho



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21990 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Re: This has got to be rare?
Hi all:
Since it is an AF 977 operating caboose, he probably is referring to the
solenoid that shoves the man out on the platform.
Rance Velapoldi

Jim Hannawald wrote:

>I think he means motor, refering to the light socket
>
>Jim
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John Brockmann" <hcopter51@...>
>To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 5:56 PM
>Subject: [S-Trains] Re: This has got to be rare?
>
>
>>I must be missing something. Where is the Mother in the pictures?
>>John B.
>>
>>
>>
>>--- In S-Trains@y..., Gary Chidester <GChidester@m...> wrote:
>>
>>>I have never seen a caboose with a mother inside, isn't this very
>>>
>>rare?
>>
>>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1788130203
>>>
>>>gary
>>>
Group: S-Trains Message: 21991 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: I want my smoke back
I believe by posting this, my intellect will take a pounding all the way from the sublime to the sarcastic, but here goes:

Flyer smoke units don't work very well on DC current. This conclusion is the result of my experiments testing all my steamers on DC vs. AC. The results vary a little, but in every case, smoke pours out on AC and at best dribbles out on DC. I've tried numerous loco wiring schemes with the same results.

Have at it guys.

Tim Brown

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21992 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Re: I want my smoke back
Tim

Were you using filtered DC (pure DC), Half wave or fullwave rectified DC?.
Each will be a different effective wattage (heat) with the same voltage
meter measurement. This may be what you are experiencing with your
experimenting.

Carl



-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Brown [mailto:Timboy@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 8:19 AM
To: S-List
Subject: [S-Trains] I want my smoke back


I believe by posting this, my intellect will take a pounding all the way
from the sublime to the sarcastic, but here goes:

Flyer smoke units don't work very well on DC current. This conclusion is
the result of my experiments testing all my steamers on DC vs. AC. The
results vary a little, but in every case, smoke pours out on AC and at best
dribbles out on DC. I've tried numerous loco wiring schemes with the same
results.

Have at it guys.

Tim Brown

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 21993 From: IronHorse Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Modeling tools
I just got a real good catalog in the mail today.
It is called "Micro-Mark.
The company sells mini-tools of all kinds.
Great for us modelers that frequently work with small parts.

I never heard of the company until today.

It is 96 page catalog. The catalog is aimed at us modelers.

The Phone number for getting a copy is 800-225-1066

I have hundreds of catalogs. This would be one of the best ones.

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 21994 From: dwightlehnhoff Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: DC smoke
I use a bridge rectifier at the transformer and run all my engines on
that DC-from Radio Shack- and have tons of smoke. I do unwind
several turns on the nichrome wire so that they smoke at a lower
voltage.

Dwight
PS Still haven't found smoke to match the late lamented LVS product.
Group: S-Trains Message: 21995 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Re: I want my smoke back
Hi,

I am using the full-wave bridge rectifiers (4 amp at 50 volts) I bought at Radio Shack.

Thanks,

Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Tuveson
To: 'Tim Brown' ; S-List
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 8:35 AM
Subject: RE: [S-Trains] I want my smoke back


Tim

Were you using filtered DC (pure DC), Half wave or fullwave rectified DC?.
Each will be a different effective wattage (heat) with the same voltage
meter measurement. This may be what you are experiencing with your
experimenting.

Carl



-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Brown [mailto:Timboy@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 8:19 AM
To: S-List
Subject: [S-Trains] I want my smoke back


I believe by posting this, my intellect will take a pounding all the way
from the sublime to the sarcastic, but here goes:

Flyer smoke units don't work very well on DC current. This conclusion is
the result of my experiments testing all my steamers on DC vs. AC. The
results vary a little, but in every case, smoke pours out on AC and at best
dribbles out on DC. I've tried numerous loco wiring schemes with the same
results.

Have at it guys.

Tim Brown

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21996 From: Rhett T. George Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Dead switch
- GreetingS -

Steve Blancard asked a good question about bad switch coils. Reviewing
what he sent, "The coil has 3 connections: one on each end and one in
the middle. With a multimeter I read 3.4 ohms from one end connection
to the other. From the middle connection to one end I read 1.7 ohms.
But from the middle connection to the other end I read an OPEN."

The total resistance is 3.4 ohms which is the sum of 1.7 for one coil
and 1.7 for the other. The inconsistency is between OPEN for one and
3.4 ohms for both. I suspect that the different directions of force
applied to the red and green terminals cause the circuit to make when
measuring end-to-end and cause one of the two to open when measruing
black to red or green.

Hope this helps.

Cheer*S*
Rhett
Group: S-Trains Message: 21997 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Re: Non train toys American Bricks
Dear List:
Since I am (as usual) about two weeks behind, I wasn't going to
chime in.

However:
If it has been on my layout to contribute buildings and other items
for the AF to run around, under, into, or through, then I am interested in
talking about it here.
I can walk to my two Kenner Panel Builder sets. I moved them two
weeks ago. They have steel blue girders. (The reissue several years later
had primer-red.) In the late 1960s they, a good AF pacific, red light
bulbs, and red tissue paper provided a smoking building on fire for my
Matchbox fire station's Matchbox fire trucks to go to!
In the late '70s my Lego provided a functional bridge spanning a 12
inch gap in the bench work. I always worried the weight of a 336 would
collapse it but it never did.
Signal bridges and even RR cars can be built with Lego. (The
flanges are as AF Switch incompatible as Ertl's.)
Packing tape and later adding machine tape provided roads. Adding
machine tape still provides roads.
My engine house from 1972 - 1978 was built from wooden blocks. A
piece of plywood provided the roof for this two track engine house. I had
working catenary running into it! Best engine house I have ever had! (Now
I have a scale model but the blocks were more fun.)
Plasticville provided more buildings.
Life-Like provided trees.
I haven't but others have built accessories with Erector sets. (And
with six sets, I could too.) I do have a Erector track cleaning car under
construction and it will use Flyonel trucks from 1989.

I did not use the American Logs, Tinker Toys, Montini, nor Lionel Blocks
with the trains so they are 'off topic'. (American Logs look like square
Lincoln Logs. Lionel Blocks are an early 1960s imitation Lego. They are
compatible.)

And NONE of these items came from the Train Lines of the A.C. Gilbert
company!

But because they were used with my AF, they are, to me, 'on topic' for this
discussion list.

Opinionated as ever,
Thorin

P.S. The Kenner Panel Builder set is available again. But someone else had
the molds.
________________________________________________________________________

Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 01:30:07 -0500
From: Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...>
Subject: Re: Non train toys American Bricks

Oooh, me too, me too!

Actually, not. I never had no stinkin' bricks.
All I had was American Flyer trains.
Anybody know if there's a list where I can talk about those?

Chris Zizzo



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 21998 From: schnoodely_odiliy_o Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Thick as a Brick
My post about the American Bricks was a lighthearted shot following
the drubbing I got on my E-Bay posts. A sense of humor is a good
thing to have. Get one soon!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 21999 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Getting more smoke
Out of curiosity I swapped a 4 amp full wave bridge rectifier out for a 6 amp one. Since I house the rectifiers in my tenders, the swap is easy. I noticed this loco now puts out more smoke. It's not spectacular, like test running it on AC (bypassing the tender), but it's a definite improvement. Don't know why. I suppose I should go get some diodes and experiment with half wave rectified DC. Has anyone on this list already done that? If so, how's your smoke? (I'm ruling out defective smoke units, as I've already test for that).

Tim Brown

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22000 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Re: Getting more smoke
Tim, I have done some experimenting. Had a similar problem for the
short time my 21145 ran on DC. Now that it's back on an original 2 step
reverse unit with AC it runs faster and smokes better.

1) As to rectifiers, it seems not all are created equal. I don't know
how to measure the effective resistance but from several installations
over the years with a random assortment of rectifiers I can see
variations, particularly from loco to loco. This means the variation is
in the rectifier I put in the motor, not from my power supply..

2) DC power supply voltage output will improve significantly if you put
a large capacitor (2000mfd is my suggestion) on the DC output to the
track. This will be quite noticeable. Install the cap. with the 2
leads across the DC before the reversing switch because they are
polarized. This smoothes out the unfiltered DC to a considerably higher
filtered average voltage. Not sure where to buy these capacitors
today. Mine have been around since the stone age.

Tim Brown wrote:
>
> Out of curiosity I swapped a 4 amp full wave bridge rectifier out for a 6 amp one. Since I house the rectifiers in my tenders, the swap is easy. I noticed this loco now puts out more smoke. It's not spectacular, like test running it on AC (bypassing the tender), but it's a definite improvement. Don't know why. I suppose I should go get some diodes and experiment with half wave rectified DC. Has anyone on this list already done that? If so, how's your smoke? (I'm ruling out defective smoke units, as I've already test for that).
>
> Tim Brown
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 22001 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: DC & Smoke
If you want to run on DC and get good smoke, then go
to DCC. You then put full voltage to the track and the
DCC controller takes care of the speed and direction.
that should give you plenty of smoke.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus � Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 22002 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Re: Getting more smoke
You have a couple of options..

If you are putting the rectifier in the tender run the smoke unit off of the
AC side of the bridge.

You can add diodes in series with the loco's motor only, either by making
the bridge with mutliple diodes in series, or adding them in series with one
motor lead with a set or sets of diodes in parallel, (anode to cathode,
cathode to anode) to drop it's voltage in relation to the smoke unit. Each
set of diodes will drop the voltage to the motor about .7 volts. You will
run the loco at a little higher throttle setting but the smoke unit will get
hotter.

Carl

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Brown [mailto:Timboy@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 12:20 PM
To: S-List
Subject: [S-Trains] Getting more smoke


Out of curiosity I swapped a 4 amp full wave bridge rectifier out for a 6
amp one. Since I house the rectifiers in my tenders, the swap is easy. I
noticed this loco now puts out more smoke. It's not spectacular, like test
running it on AC (bypassing the tender), but it's a definite improvement.
Don't know why. I suppose I should go get some diodes and experiment with
half wave rectified DC. Has anyone on this list already done that? If so,
how's your smoke? (I'm ruling out defective smoke units, as I've already
test for that).

Tim Brown

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22003 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Re: Thick as a Brick
Dear Chris,
Where did you get your sense of humor? I wouldn't want
to get mine from the same place(Tounge in cheek:) Still have yours? Mike S.



PS: I WAS ONLY KIDDING


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22004 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: diode bridge questions
I have electronic questions related to diode bridges.

In a DC setup such as most of you describe, the polarities of BOTH rails
are reversed to change train direction. You run AC into the AC inputs of a
diode bridge, and then run the DC outputs, with or without a capacitor,
through a DPDT switch to the track.

Now, in a DC COMMON RAIL system, the common rail is a ground, and the
polarity of only ONE rail, called the control rail, is changed from + to -
to reverse trains. (Except, of course, for reverse loops and wyes.) The
advantages of a DC common rail system are, briefly, half as many rail gaps,
half as much block section wiring, and better power distribution throughout
the layout.

My question is, should a diode bridge be tapped (connected) differently
when powering a DC common rail system? Should the ground rail be a third
output connection ? Should two diode bridges be used? Or should the four
diodes in the bridge be configured differently?

The kind of system that interests me the most is the double power source
supply system, where one source supplies the + and the other supplies the
-. Could two diode bridges be used from one AC source, with the + of one
conected to the - of the other and both connected to the ground rail? Or
would it be better to use two AC sources? If so, must they be in phase?
And what about capacitors?
\
The trouble is, the diagrams I have are so old that the power supplies are
shown as batteries in the schematics.

If you know the answers, please pitch in!

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 22005 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: GETTING MORE SMOKE BLANTANT AD
If you want better smoke volume, use better fluid. Like mine. Please write
me off list for details. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22006 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Re: This has got to be rare?
Jim, Gary, and all
He probably does mean motor, but not because of the light socket but the
solenoid to activate the action brakeman figure as this is a 977
caboose.
I have heard that some railroads did allow passengers to ride along, so
maybe the brakeman did have his mother inside.
Oh Boy! Trains!..................Herky1950
Obie Bell



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22007 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] diode bridge questions]
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] diode bridge questions
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:32:24 -0500
From: Chuck Smith <cesmith@...>
To: jarcho@...
References: <v01540b00ba029fae869e@[209.122.225.50]>

I have solved the problem of using a common AC base post rail along with
DC by using a different power supply for the DC. I switch track power
from the AC supply to the DC supply by means of a DPDT power selector
switch. This allows the AC and DC to share a common wire but does not
cause a short because the 2 circuits only share one wire. Thus they are
both separate. This allows 15V AC to power action cars in a train that
is running on DC. I have never been able to use DC polarity on a common
base rail system with a single power supply without causing problems
when reversing track polarity on DC. By common base rail I mean a bus
that runs from a Flyer transformer through the layout, and thus I get
base post power from the nearest switch w/o going all the way back to
the control panel.

I use a standard bridge and a DPDT reversing switch after the bridge
(and capacitor if used). The separate power supply use is not required
if you are merely powering one output to all the track with no other
connections than the single set of power leads. I got into all this
initially by trying to maintain the base rail for a Flyer airchime
whistle. Now I have added rail sound buttons, locomatic from SHS, plus
homemade sound buttons and everything works. One proviso- multiple
transformers need phasing to share the common base bus.

jarcho@... wrote:
>
> I have electronic questions related to diode bridges.
>
> In a DC setup such as most of you describe, the polarities of BOTH rails
> are reversed to change train direction. You run AC into the AC inputs of a
> diode bridge, and then run the DC outputs, with or without a capacitor,
> through a DPDT switch to the track.
>
> Now, in a DC COMMON RAIL system, the common rail is a ground, and the
> polarity of only ONE rail, called the control rail, is changed from + to -
> to reverse trains. (Except, of course, for reverse loops and wyes.) The
> advantages of a DC common rail system are, briefly, half as many rail gaps,
> half as much block section wiring, and better power distribution throughout
> the layout.
>
> My question is, should a diode bridge be tapped (connected) differently
> when powering a DC common rail system? Should the ground rail be a third
> output connection ? Should two diode bridges be used? Or should the four
> diodes in the bridge be configured differently?
>
> The kind of system that interests me the most is the double power source
> supply system, where one source supplies the + and the other supplies the
> -. Could two diode bridges be used from one AC source, with the + of one
> conected to the - of the other and both connected to the ground rail? Or
> would it be better to use two AC sources? If so, must they be in phase?
> And what about capacitors?
> \
> The trouble is, the diagrams I have are so old that the power supplies are
> shown as batteries in the schematics.
>
> If you know the answers, please pitch in!
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 22008 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Tim Browns comments on Smoke
In a message dated 11/21/2002 10:54:23 AM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:

> Flyer smoke units don't work very well on DC current. This conclusion is
> the result of my experiments testing all my steamers on DC vs. AC. The
> results vary a little, but in every case, smoke pours out on AC and at best
> dribbles out on DC. I've tried numerous loco wiring schemes with the same
> results.
>
> Have at it guys.
>
> Tim Brown
>

Which is exactly why we run full track power AC to smoke/headlight units and
DC to the can motor in our conversion processes.

Steve & Sam.....S-'n-S Trains.....Boise


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22009 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: AC/DC/DPDT/AC common
Tom J. Wrote "> I have  electronic questions related to diode bridges.
>
> In a DC setup such as most of you describe, the polarities of BOTH rails
> are reversed to change train direction.  You run AC into the AC inputs of a
> diode bridge, and then run the DC outputs, with or without a capacitor,
> through a DPDT switch to the track."

Then Chuck S writes back "I have solved the problem of using a common AC base
post rail along with
DC by using a different power supply for the DC.  I switch track power
from the AC supply to the DC supply by means of a DPDT power selector
switch.  This allows the AC and DC to share a common wire but does not
cause a short because the 2 circuits only share one wire. Thus they are
both separate. This allows 15V AC to power action cars in a train that
is running on DC. 

CB says "I'm glad I am switching to DCC!" You guys confuse me!!! :}


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22010 From: Don Abrams Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Warning -- ebay post -- Delete, Delete, Delete!!!
Well, at the risk of being flamed, here goes.
What the heck have we got here?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1788604470&category=480
Anyone familiar with this freight car?
Didn't know that LTI Flyer brought this kind of dough!
Don
Group: S-Trains Message: 22011 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Re: Warning -- ebay post -- Delete OR READ
Hi Don & All,
I have never seen that car. But I bought one that is
an Unpainted one from LTI in hopes of retiring, wait I'm already retired.
Mike S.
PS: No flames


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22012 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Re: warning ebay post
Fellow Nasg members correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is one
of the cars which was converted from the 0700 1981 NASG car. I
believe the NASG bought 2000 of that orange box car and when sales
flattened out a number of them were converted into this tool car. I
remember seeing these at York years ago. Jim Duncan
Group: S-Trains Message: 22013 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: tool car
Bought one of these from Central NY S Gaugers many years ago. Think they were
a club project. I now have two having bought one from a local club member.
I've never seen one in price guides, York or any train meet.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22014 From: mlmarmer Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Girder & Panel and Bridge & Turnpike Heaven - Photo Gallery
http://www.busybeebaskets.com/Girder&Panel/Gallery.htm

Allot of you were talking about sets of toy bricks you all had as kids.

This is a pretty neat website on the Kenner Bridge and Turnpike sets that I started to get in 1962.

There is a history of this toy, as it goes back to 1956, so, maybe some of you had these sets. The booklet for different bridges and buildings has some really great photo's. They do show H.O. trains being used along these things to build.

Toys were so different back then!

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22015 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: AD FOR LIONEL BRIDGE
ANYONE ON THE LIST WANT TO BUY A all steel lionel s girder bridge in good
cond ready for repaint Contact me off list $25 shipping included OR an Offer
MIKE S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22016 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: center tap
Yes, that's exactly my question. How do you get a center tap DC source
from a diode bridge or series of diodes?

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 22017 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Re: center tap
Tom,

Here is a drawing that shows how to do it with two transformers one bridge.

http://www.tuveson.com/Plus-Minus-supply.jpg

The track power polarity the drawing it reversible with the switch.
You could use two train transformers and each variable output would control
the plus and minus independently or you could use a variac on the AC input
to control both simultaneously.

Carl

-----Original Message-----
From: jarcho@... [mailto:jarcho@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 9:50 PM
To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] center tap


Yes, that's exactly my question. How do you get a center tap DC source
from a diode bridge or series of diodes?

Tom Jarcho



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Group: S-Trains Message: 22018 From: Michael T Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Custom Locos
hi all,

I am going to begin the creation of my monster loco, anyone out there
have pics of their creations? I have Atlantic and Pacific shells now,
so the examples can be Atlantic or pacific based, or both. I am
especially interested in an Atlantic Pacific combo, Thanks

Michael T.
Chicago IL
Group: S-Trains Message: 22019 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/21/2002
Subject: Re: tool car
In a message dated 11/21/02 9:25:03 PM, marpack57@... writes:

<< I've never seen one in price guides, >>

Nor will one. These are non-factory repaints. The inclusion of repaints
(e.g., there is a series of boxcars done for the TCA Museum that do not get
listed) would open a Pandora's box. One would have to chase down every Downs
repaint of a Gilbert shell for completeness. This is not to denigrate the
sentimental and collector value of these pieces to their owners, but repaints
are no longer a branded factory product.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 22020 From: jahoozdumm Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: Can motors for American Flyer Diesel Locos
Steve & Sam wrote:

>The time has finally arrived. We will begin accepting your AC
>Gilbert Diesel (both Geeps and Alcos) for can motor conversion on
>Jan 2, 2003.


But, but... if "the time has arrived," why do we have to wait 'til
Jan 2, 2003? (Doncha just love how S gaugers are so picky?)

AND...

Will there be pix of these new conversions on your website soon?

What's the cost per truck if the customer does the work?


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22021 From: mark.p.baker@bt.com Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: King's Cross Railway Book Fair
A note to remind you that the Autumn 2002 King's Cross Railway Book Fair,
which will be held at Keen House, the headquarters of the Model Railway Club
(http://www.themodelrailwayclub.org/index.html), at 4, Calshot Street,
London, N1, tomorrow, Saturday 23rd November 2002, between 11:00 and 15:30.
Admission is just £1 and refreshments will be available all day from the
Club's licensed bar. Further details are available from me direct and
details of other similar events may be found on Tony Hillman's 'Railway
Collectors Events Diary' at http://www.prorail.co.uk/events/kingscross.htm.


Mark P. Baker.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22022 From: castironv8@aol.com Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Bob Board Layout
Mike,

Yes, the Bob Board "All Aboard Rail Road" runs during the Christmas season in
Lancaster, PA. The season starts on November 30th and runs weekends only
until December 26th when it is open daily through and including December
31st, 1 to 4:30 PM. You can reach them at (717) 392-1568

I ran across this jewel of a layout almost by accident about 3 years ago.
Since that time I make the 80 mile drive at least 2 times a season. The
layout displays and OPERATES, some of the finest Gilbert locomotives,
accessories, and rolling stock.

They also run some American Models stuff on the layout. All Aboard Rail Road
is an American Models dealer as well as Lionel and MTH

On the walls, in display cases, are some fine examples of complete vintage AF
sets.

If you are into AF, or even if you like an interesting layout, you owe it to
yourself to stop in and see it.

Regards,
Curtis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22023 From: castironv8@aol.com Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Magnet wire source
Steve,

Another source for magnet wire can be found at

www. electromechanicsonline.com.

http://www.electromechanicsonline.com/default.asp?cat=Wire%2C+Magnet

They may seem a little pricey in some cases, but they offer a very wide
selection of gauges and thermal ranges.

Regards,
Curtis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22024 From: Mark Preman Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: S Gauge Thomas the Tank Engine
Thomas has arrived. Comes is AC highrail or DC
highrail ready to run on your American Flyer track
with your transformer. $65 plus $4 S&H in the
contiguous 48. Picture at http://www.americanflyertrains.com

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22025 From: castironv8@aol.com Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Bob Board Layout II
Dear Group:

For those who have asked, I am not aware of a dedicated web site for the "All
Aboard Rail Road"; however, pages 50 and 51 of the September 2002 Classic Toy
Trains Magazine has 1 photograph of a portion of the layout.

They do not allow people to video the layout. I am not sure about photos.
The lighting is not too friendly for good photos considering my level of
photographic expertise or equipment. I'm sure that someone with a good
camera could take some good shots (with permission of course). For a
couple of photos, take a look at:

<A HREF="http://www.trainweb.org/s-displays/">http://www.trainweb.org/s-displays/</A>

You will find a photo or two of the "All Aboard Rail Road" .

Regards,
Curtis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22026 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: Outdoor Model Railroading in the North Country
Dear Jim:
Here is an e-mail I sent to Dave Johnson, owner / operator of the
REAL Iowa Traction Railroad almost a year ago. I don't know how it will do
with trains of our size.

Thorin
________________________________________________________________________

From: Marty.Thorin
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 12:38 PM
To: Dave Johnson (Home) (E-mail)
Subject: Track de-icing

Dear Dave:

A friend of mine sent me this web site for de-icing track.

I thought I should pass it on to you.

Thorin

<http://nasatech.com/Spinoff/spinoff2001/ps3.html>
________________________________________________________________________

Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 14:07:01 -0600
From: "Jim Kindraka" <raisinone@...>
Subject: Outdoor Model Railroading in the North Country

A bit off S scale here (but still trains...). A friend asked if anyone
knows of anything you can use on outdoor trackwork (garden railways) improve
operation when it gets frosty in the north country. Operating in snow can
be done, but late evening dew settling to icy frost is an issue - any
ideas?? Years ago there were some indoor RR track cleaning/ coating agents
people used for better operation (Wahl Oil?????). Would something like this
coat the track and make it less likely to ice up??

Thought I'd ask the experts...
Jim

River Raisin Models
http://www.riverraisinmodels.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22027 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: 293/21099 Steam Locomotive
Dear Joe:
The answer is



20806






21099 - 293 = 20806. ;-)

Glad I could help.
Thorin
________________________________________________________________________

Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:19:07 EST
From: SMASTER636@...
Subject: 293/21099 Steam Locomotive

Group:

What is the difference between an AF 293 Steam Engine and a 21099 Steam
Engine? Thank you.

Joe Fariello
Cooper City, Florida



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22028 From: david.avedesian@limbachinc.com Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Desperately Seeking Layouts
I had posted earlier.

Can anyone help me. I will be at my brother's-in-law home for Thanksgiving
in the Jackson, MI. My wife, her mother and the other women of the group
will be shopping all day of Black Friday.

My brother-in-law, Bill and I are hoping to go layout touring instead of
being drag around town by the ladies. Is there anyone in a 75 mile radius
of the Jackson area that will take pity on us? I can be reached at 301 938
1811 cell.

Please help, signed desperate David



************************************************************************
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22029 From: Lori Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: tinkering
I want to encourage those who have trains to (if you actually know you are mechanically inclined, which I find so many are:) to actually work on your trains, if you have a problem. (I don't want to be accused if you open up a train that is mint condition and look at it. Not that anyone would be that silly). I am not a train collector, but my husband is. I bought a "junk" deal off of Ebay awhile ago for my husband & ever since then has actually looked at his trains. FYI-He collects only American FLyer postwar trains. He had a problem with one loco. and fixed it by "opening" it up and looking at it (of course he didn't do anything blindly but has diagrams and such). But I was happy to see him actually get into his trains and KNOW them....:) Lori

PS. the "junk" I got was a slighty rusty 740 handcar and a Sam the Semaphore man (of course both needed some serious work).
Group: S-Trains Message: 22030 From: Alan C Udy Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1654
Let's see if some questions can be answered.

My question is, should a diode bridge be tapped (connected) differently
when powering a DC common rail system?

NO, no reason to. Take each dc output and connect one lead to the
common rail, regardless of the polarity (and they can be switched).

Should the ground rail be a third output connection?

There is no third output connection. Remember 2 rail.

Should two diode bridges be used?

Only if you are using two transformers. three rectifiers for three
transformers, etc.

Or should the four diodes in the bridge be configured differently?

It's hard to reconfigure a bridge rectifier that was built that way at
the factory.

The kind of system that interests me the most is the double power source
supply system, where one source supplies the + and the other supplies the
-. Could two diode bridges be used from one AC source, with the + of one
conected to the - of the other and both connected to the ground rail?

If you have a center tapped transformer you could do just like you say,
only use single diodes and not bridge rectifiers. Otherwise, no. You'll
have a short circuit through the rectifiers.

Or would it be better to use two AC sources?

Definately, use two separate transformers, each with its own rectifier
bridge.

If so, must they be in phase?

No, you don't need to worry about phasing the ac sources if you are
connecting the dc outputs.

And what about capacitors?

Add away, observing the positive and negative polarities. The more
microfarads the less ac ripple. You can add batteries too if you want
even smoother power, and to be able to continue operating during a power
outage.

Sparky

________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22031 From: mlmarmer Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: Bob Board Layout
Curtis,

Thank you for the response to my question about Bob Board's layout and
letting me know it is still in operation during the holidays.

I have seen the layout, running, a couple of times in the mid 1990's, and
you don't see any mention of the running anywhere, just a ad for his smoke
fluid, so I wanted to make sure it was still in operation, before I go up
there.

I believe the reason, he doesn't allow video cameras is because he does have
a video of his own for sale, which I have, plus it is cramped in that area
between the layout and the walls of his trains on display. I did take
photo's one time and he didn't have a problem with that. And you are right,
the ligthing is not friendly for film. Even his own video is grainy, but
okay. I have the pictures buried somewhere and will try to find them.

You mention another layout, but didn't tell where it is. Is that the layout
I was told about in Fleming, N.J.?

Bob's layout is worth a trip for anyone within reasonable driving distance.
Also, makes a great weekend in the Lancaster area, with the TCA museum and
train ride. We did stay once at the Red Caboose hotel, which is an
experience with all the rooms being actual Cabooses!

Bob does have a shop and does have old AF, as well as new items from the
other makers of S products, just be prepare to pay premium price, if you
really want that item. Price is firm.

Thanks Carl,

Mike
Group: S-Trains Message: 22032 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Smoke & AC/DC
Thanks to all who responded with some splendid (as usual) suggestions and angles to pursue on the recent discussion thread concerning smoke units on AC vs. DC voltage.

I'm going back full circle. I'm restoring all my locos to AC and restoring the track current to AC as well. I want to have my Flyer layout as pure as possible and run them the way God and Gilbert intended. The challenge is to get everything I have up to as close to factory spec as possible as gently as possible. No added electronics and no repaints. It's a happy little place where I'm at right now.

Thanks,
Tim Brown

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22033 From: mark.p.baker@bt.com Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: King's Cross Railway Book Fair
> A note to remind you that the Autumn 2002 King's Cross Railway Book Fair,
> which will be held at Keen House, the headquarters of the Model Railway
> Club (http://www.themodelrailwayclub.org/index.html), at 4, Calshot
> Street, London, N1, tomorrow, Saturday 23rd November 2002, between 11:00
> and 15:30. Admission is just £1 and refreshments will be available all day
> from the Club's licensed bar. Further details are available from me direct
> and details of other similar events may be found on Tony Hillman's
> 'Railway Collectors Events Diary' at
> http://www.prorail.co.uk/events/kingscross.htm.
>
>
> Mark P. Baker.
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22034 From: Alex Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: Magnet wire source
When choosing enameled magnet wire, try and find the type that has a red
finish that simply burns off when soldering to it or tinning it with solder.
It's much easier to use than the hard Formvar finish type, and that means
you won't have to scrape or sand the wire's insulation to get it off, or
risk nicking it.

== Alex in Maine


-----Original Message-----
From: castironv8@... [mailto:castironv8@...]
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 9:10 AM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Magnet wire source


Steve,

Another source for magnet wire can be found at

www. electromechanicsonline.com.

http://www.electromechanicsonline.com/default.asp?cat=Wire%2C+Magnet

They may seem a little pricey in some cases, but they offer a very wide
selection of gauges and thermal ranges.

Regards,
Curtis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Group: S-Trains Message: 22035 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: IATR 53 and TTC 2
Dear List:
Last time I wrote up something about Iowa Traction, I miss-posted it
to these lists. (These are supposed to be S Gauge trains and related.
Monographs about existing, full size, traction equipment is a bit off
topic.)
I then apologized for the miss-post. I received a LARGE number of
responses thanking me for the miss-post.

I have written up something about former Texas Electric 801 and 952. Both
of these motors still exist and are both owned by railroads that can use
them. (Not a museum.)

Who wants a copy? If I get a large number of requests, I will post it and
future Iowa Traction monographs to the S gauge lists.

Thorin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22036 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: 1/64 Scale Cars at K-Mart
Hello John and All,
I have some of these "Route 66" cars that you mention in your post.
Seems to me that these are Ertl "American Muscle" cars in different
color schemes and packaging. American Flyer has caused me to also become
a 1/64 scale die-cast vehicle collector and these are some of the best
detailed models yet. Even the license plates are reproduced on these
models.
Oh Boy! Trains!....................Herky1950
Obie Bell
Group: S-Trains Message: 22037 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: Smoke & AC/DC
Glad to hear it. IMHO this is the only way to go!! All my smokers
smoke-locos that is. And I do mean smoke...The only thing that is not
original flyer is the repro roadbed. Nothing touched up,repainted or
re-chromed. All original AF Track, switches, and accessories. How
sweet it is!!! John B.


--- In S-Trains@y..., "Tim Brown" <Timboy@a...> wrote:
> Thanks to all who responded with some splendid (as usual)
suggestions and angles to pursue on the recent discussion thread
concerning smoke units on AC vs. DC voltage.
>
> I'm going back full circle. I'm restoring all my locos to AC and
restoring the track current to AC as well. I want to have my Flyer
layout as pure as possible and run them the way God and Gilbert
intended. The challenge is to get everything I have up to as close
to factory spec as possible as gently as possible. No added
electronics and no repaints. It's a happy little place where I'm at
right now.
>
> Thanks,
> Tim Brown
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22038 From: Don Abrams Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: Warning -- ebay post -- Delete, Delete, Delete!!!
Unbelievable!
The tool car went for $314.00 ! ! !
Don
Group: S-Trains Message: 22039 From: schnoodely_odiliy_o Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: DC Polarity
Carl:
I looked over your diagram and I see that you are drawing the common
reference rail from the center tap created by series wiring two
transformers, essentially creating one larger transformer. I have
several questions about the efficacy of such a setup.

First: the center tap is a pre-bridge reference point on the AC coils
of the transformer. The point of this common-rail exercise is to
create a zero-point against which the opposing rail will measure
either negative or positive. How does this DC bypassed point add up
to that?

Second: what method is used to control the speed of trains? Since
this system relies on two transformers, will one of them be wired
through the variable posts? If so, which one?

Third: If, indeed, this system is viable, couldn't the same goal be
accomplished using one transformer, wiring the bridge to the base and
fixed 17VAC posts and wiring the common rail to the variable post?
If the speed handle is set in dead center, is this not the same set-
up? Then, if the handle is moved one way or another, it would vary
the voltage difference of the common rail to the fixed, whichever the
fixed happened to be, thus controlling speed, regardless of direction.

However, I do not believe this sytem will work because the reference
rail is AC and the bridge DC circuit is incomplete. Try it out, if
you wish, but don't blow up your trains!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 22040 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Tool Car
Considering that the 0700 goes for about $100 and these tool cars
were made from the 0700 cars the CNYSG couldn't sell, maybe it's time
to convert more of these cars over so they could be worth 3 times as
much! How ridiculous is this? Personally, I think the seller (who
sells a ton of trains on ebay) is guilty of deception. They should
have clearly stated in the bid that this is not a factory car. I
received a nice email about this car from a CNYSG club member. They
made sure that anyone who bought the car was informed that this was
not a AF/Lionel car and that it was converted from cars the CNYSG
club had leftover from the convention. Jim Duncan
Group: S-Trains Message: 22041 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, November 24, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page http://s-scale.org/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 22042 From: Walt Danylak Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: Tool Car
--- In S-Trains@y..., "kenwoodies1" <kenwoodies@a...> wrote:
Considering that the 0700 goes for about $100 and these tool cars
were made from the 0700 cars the CNYSG couldn't sell, maybe it's time
to convert more of these cars over so they could be worth 3 times as
much! How ridiculous is this? Personally, I think the seller (who
sells a ton of trains on ebay) is guilty of deception. They should
have clearly stated in the bid that this is not a factory car. I
received a nice email about this car from a CNYSG club member. They
made sure that anyone who bought the car was informed that this was
not a AF/Lionel car and that it was converted from cars the CNYSG
club had leftover from the convention. Jim Duncan

Jim,

Being the person in charge of all the 0700 repaints, I can confirm
that they were NEVER advertised as factory production. As you stated,
it was a way for our club to recoup some of the money invested in the
cars. In case anyone is interested, I'll list the repaints we
offered, as best as I can remember:

D&H 'I Love NY' - AC Gilbert/AC Gilbet Co. Birthday/Anniversary
(both sides of the car are different) - MR 50th Anniversary - RMC
50th Anniversary - Conrail - TTCS/NYC Pacemaker - Tool Car

No more than 100 of each roadname was repainted. In many cases far
less than 100 were made. I should have kept accurate records of each
car, but I didn't. In addition we repainted a few as NASG Convention
cars for the Buffalo (1983?) and near Boston (1984?). We sold a few
cases of cars to the CVSG in Cleveland and they offered a Burning
River car.

If anyone has any questions, I'll do my best to answer them.

Walt Danylak
Group: S-Trains Message: 22043 From: kenwoodies1 Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: Tool car
Walt, Thanks for more info on the cars. I remember seeing these cars
at trains meets and when I inquired about them, the people who had
the cars for sale went out of their way to point out who made them
and where they orginated. You knew what you were buying ahead of
time. Unfortunately, this car on ebay had very little info about it
and the people bidding it may think it is a rare factory car. Then
again, maybe they knew exactly what it was and just wanted it. If
that is the case, I have a couple of originals I would like you to
convert!!! Jim
Group: S-Trains Message: 22044 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: DC Polarity
Chris,

Tom was looking for a way to make a power supply that would provide a common
with a plus and minus output using two transformers. At least that is what I
assumed he was trying to do. The circuit (
http://www.tuveson.com/Plus-Minus-supply.jpg )does that but as you point
out, and as I stated in the original post, if you use the variable outputs,
one transformer will control the positive and the other will control the
negative. Not really a desirable solution. The best way then is to use a
variac in the primary of the transformers to adjust transformer's outputs
simultaneously.

The circuit, if you analyze it, is a center tap transformer with two
fullwave rectifiers, one making positive and the other negative using a
bridge as the rectifiers. This will and does work. I use it to make my plus
and minus 12 volts for my switch machines and signals. There is no AC
between the common and the outputs, just fullwave DC.

I see no way of using the variable out as the common. It would be a variable
center tap that would un-balance the fullwave output??

Carl





-----Original Message-----
From: schnoodely_odiliy_o [mailto:busyboy@...]
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 6:34 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] DC Polarity


Carl:
I looked over your diagram and I see that you are drawing the common
reference rail from the center tap created by series wiring two
transformers, essentially creating one larger transformer. I have
several questions about the efficacy of such a setup.

First: the center tap is a pre-bridge reference point on the AC coils
of the transformer. The point of this common-rail exercise is to
create a zero-point against which the opposing rail will measure
either negative or positive. How does this DC bypassed point add up
to that?

Second: what method is used to control the speed of trains? Since
this system relies on two transformers, will one of them be wired
through the variable posts? If so, which one?

Third: If, indeed, this system is viable, couldn't the same goal be
accomplished using one transformer, wiring the bridge to the base and
fixed 17VAC posts and wiring the common rail to the variable post?
If the speed handle is set in dead center, is this not the same set-
up? Then, if the handle is moved one way or another, it would vary
the voltage difference of the common rail to the fixed, whichever the
fixed happened to be, thus controlling speed, regardless of direction.

However, I do not believe this sytem will work because the reference
rail is AC and the bridge DC circuit is incomplete. Try it out, if
you wish, but don't blow up your trains!

Chris Zizzo


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Group: S-Trains Message: 22045 From: David Dewey Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: Magnet wire source
Hi All,
I would have to disagree with Alex! One of the problems we have with AF
windings today is that ACG did use an "easysolder" type of wire for a while.
AF motors sometimes run hot, and coils frequently do! I use the highest
temperature wire I can find, good for 180 degrees C. Yes, it's a pain to
prepare for soldering, but I think that the windings will also be VERY
difficult to burn out. Fortunately, I picked up a bunch from a friend and
some from a relative who worked in the aerospace industry (that wire I don't
really have specs on, but I do have some I bought that I do, and both
insulations require physical removal for soldering.
Later!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22046 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: DC Polarity
If you are selecting between two DC outputs with a SPDT switch, you can
have a rehostat in the line between the SPDT switch and the control rail
that could regulate train speed, right?

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 22047 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: DC Polarity
Absolutely.

jarcho@... wrote:
>
> If you are selecting between two DC outputs with a SPDT switch, you can
> have a rehostat in the line between the SPDT switch and the control rail
> that could regulate train speed, right?
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 22048 From: Alex Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: Magnet wire source
David may be right, but the heat of a running motor shouldn't be *that*
hot---not as hot as molten solder!

== Alex

-----Original Message-----
From: David Dewey [mailto:djdewey@...]
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 9:59 PM
To: alexmm@...; S-Trains (E-mail)
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Magnet wire source


Hi All,
I would have to disagree with Alex! One of the problems we have with AF
windings today is that ACG did use an "easysolder" type of wire for a while.
AF motors sometimes run hot, and coils frequently do! I use the highest
temperature wire I can find, good for 180 degrees C. Yes, it's a pain to
prepare for soldering, but I think that the windings will also be VERY
difficult to burn out. Fortunately, I picked up a bunch from a friend and
some from a relative who worked in the aerospace industry (that wire I don't
really have specs on, but I do have some I bought that I do, and both
insulations require physical removal for soldering.
Later!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22049 From: Spots350SL@aol.com Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: Re: Magnet wire source
you never know, my 290 almost caught fire.

Michael
Group: S-Trains Message: 22050 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 11/22/2002
Subject: S-Video Volume VI
A reminder to all that Volume, VI in the "S-Gauge Model Railroading" will
begin shipping on Monday morning. There is very good coverage of the NASG
convention in Cleveland this year and a very excellent coverage of the
Cincinnati 1/64 scale layout of the city circa 1943? at the museum.
Paul Yorke is the author of that segment and did an excellent job of bringing
you the whole picture. Don't miss this one if you want to see the Cincy
Museum layout. There is more coverage of Sam Rapp's layout under construction
including the turntable up and running. A very excellent job done here too
with a LOT of "how to" information.
Same old price....$14 ppd. We have a lot of them left. There won't be any
more in this series until Thanksgiving 2003 with Vol. VII

Steve & Sam....S-'n-S Trains....Boise


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22051 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/23/2002
Subject: Turnouts & Switches (asking for your input)
I would like to create a page (if one does not already
exist) that lists all the currently available switches
for S.
I would like to include Highrail and scale. It should
include :
Price:
Kit or Ready to run:
Photo:(or drawing or diagram)
Compatibility (scale/highrail)
Rail Height:
Rail code:
Who makes em:
Who sells em:
Is there a waiting period:
Radius of curve
Contacts? (electrical that is)
Open Frog or closed
and anything else that I should have included but
did'nt>
Please send me your input (off list) and I will try
and get something going in the lext couple weeks.
Pictures are good, good pictures are even better.
It would be good to have a comment section of Pros and
Cons.


=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22052 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 11/23/2002
Subject: Diesel can motor follow up
We need to clarify the pricing of the Can motor conversion process of Gilbert
Geeps and Alcos. If you are already running DC, you of course do not need the
Dallee reverse unit. If that's your circumstance, just subtract $44.95 from
the price published.

Thanks to all that inquired.

Steve & Sam.....S-'n-S Trains.....Boise


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22053 From: Bill Lane Date: 11/23/2002
Subject: Waiting for the Southwind EM-1
Hi All,

I have not received my EM-1 yet. The shipping insurance states that all
boxes must be inspected before any can be shipped. I have talked to Jettie
almost every day this week, like a 5-year-old waiting for the sun to rise on
Christmas morning. Did it ship yet!? I expect to be making another posting
about the EM-1 next week. Stay tuned.....

Thanks
Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 22054 From: David Dewey Date: 11/23/2002
Subject: Re: Smoke & AC/DC--doin' it ACG's way
Bretheren:
Ah, you have seen the light!! The monastary welcomes you aboard!
FFU forever! (Flyer Fanatics United)
Uh, pay no attention to those SHS locos in my fleet!! (You wouldn't want me
to pull my WP CZ with PAs would you???)
;-)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22055 From: Tom Pennington Date: 11/23/2002
Subject: Re: Girder & Panel and Bridge & Turnpike Heaven - Photo Gallery
When I was about 7 we got one of the girder and panel sets, had a ball with
it, and used it as buildings on our
HO train layout. Would have used on the Flyer (what did we care about
scale back then), except most of the
engines we had were dead, trying to find parts. Amazing to me that 40
years later, my 82 year old dad has them
running again with NOS or repro parts. Toys were made to last back in
those days I guess.


At 09:37 PM 11/21/02 -0500, mlmarmer wrote:


> http://www.busybeebaskets.com/Girder&Panel/Gallery.htm
>
>Allot of you were talking about sets of toy bricks you all had as kids.
>
>This is a pretty neat website on the Kenner Bridge and Turnpike sets that
>I started to get in 1962.
>
>There is a history of this toy, as it goes back to 1956, so, maybe some of
>you had these sets. The booklet for different bridges and buildings has
>some really great photo's. They do show H.O. trains being used along
>these things to build.
>
>Toys were so different back then!
>
>Mike Marmer
>Germantown, MD
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
>s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 22056 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 11/23/2002
Subject: FREDERICK HOME TRAIN SHOW
The North Penn S Gaugers had a
great time at the Frederick Mennonite
Home Train Show. Many retirement
homes bused their residents to this
show.

Here are some of the pictures from our
show on November 15th & 16th.

http://kulpritterpics.homestead.com/frederickhome.html

Bob Paul will be loading the rest on our club
website:
North Penn S Gaugers (local Club) at:
http://npsg3.homestead.com/files/npsgi.htm
Richard Robinson, Fort Washington S layout:
http://kulpritterpics.homestead.com/robinsonrr.html
Paul Yorke's links:
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/
S Helper Service:
http://www.showcaseline.com
Roy Hoffman's (NASG President) website:
http://www.s-scaletrains.com/
Atlantic Coast S Gaugers on Homestead:
http://www.homestead.com/waynestrains/acsg.html
Badgerland S Gaugers on Trainweb
http://www.trainweb.org/bsg/
Bristol S Gaugers at Trainweb
http://www.trainweb.org/bristol-s-gauge/index.html
American Flyer Trains at:
http://www.s-scaletrains.com/saf.htm
Crossroads of America RR museum:
http://www.travel.to/cofa
John & Robin Vanacore:
http://www.afstrains.com/index.html
Southeastern Michigan S Gaugers
http://www.southeastmichigansgaugers.org

Glenn
Group: S-Trains Message: 22057 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/23/2002
Subject: replacement circuit breakers
Has anyone on list ever tried one of the repro circuit breakers for Lionel
KW and ZW transformers, in an AF turret transformer?

Thanks.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 22058 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 11/24/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1657
REPLACEMENT CIRCUIT BREAKERS.

Tom,
The LIONEL breakers are not all that reliable. I use a 6 amp (holds 6
amps breaks at 12 amps)
polySwitch, Available thru Digi-Key 2 thru 6 amp, 30 volt.
www.digikey.com, They run about $1 each. Very reliable.

Jerry 77-11644

________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22059 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 11/24/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, November 24, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page http://s-scale.org/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 22060 From: tomsmitty2001 Date: 11/24/2002
Subject: test
test post to see if this thing works now !
Group: S-Trains Message: 22061 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/24/2002
Subject: turnout and switches
Visit
http://66.111.44.40/~pyorke/albums/view_album.php?set_albumName=album27
That is my newest album.

It is a repository for information and pictures about
switches and turnouts.

I hope you can help me populate it with pictures and
comments about the switches and trunouts avilable for
S-scale and Highrail.

PS- My yorke@... is going away, so please update
your address book to s_trains at yahoo.com
thats s underscore trains at yahoo.com

Thanks to those who have already sent stuff.

=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus � Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22062 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/24/2002
Subject: Chat
Could not get to the chat. What is the procedure now?John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22063 From: Rhett T. George Date: 11/25/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1656
- Paul -

Thanks for undertaking this turnout summary. It will be valuable to all.

My only comment thus far.
Gargraves - model which moves only the switch points. The fixed frog is
not friendly to all AF wheel sets (which have gauge variations).
Gargraves - model which has points and frog wing rails made as a unit
(like AF) works very well.

Cheer*S*
Rhett
Group: S-Trains Message: 22064 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 11/25/2002
Subject: LVM Poultry Car - HELP!!
Good morning S-trains,

I am attempting to build the LVM poultry car and am having problems
with the lack of detail in the instructions. Does anyone have any
photos of a completed LVM poultry car that you can post or email to
me? The bottom of the car seems to be the most difficult to envision
based on the written instructions. Thanks for your help!

BG1
Group: S-Trains Message: 22065 From: Gary Chidester Date: 11/25/2002
Subject: Running two locos?
Is there a problem running two locos at a time on a loop? I have been
wanting to run my two UP Geeps to pull a longer consist, but worry that it
could damage the motors somehow.

Thanks,

g
Group: S-Trains Message: 22066 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/25/2002
Subject: Re: Running two locos?
As long as both locos are healthy,serviced and run about the same speed they
will run MUed just fine. I run them that way a lot.

Carl

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Chidester [mailto:GChidester@...]
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 9:46 AM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Running two locos?


Is there a problem running two locos at a time on a loop? I have been
wanting to run my two UP Geeps to pull a longer consist, but worry that it
could damage the motors somehow.

Thanks,

g


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All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22067 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 11/25/2002
Subject: IATR 53
Dear List:

I received about 10 requests for this article and requests for future
articles, so here it is. Unless taken to task by the moderators, I will
post any future monographs on the equipment of my favorite prototype.

Read and enjoy -- then hit <delete>,
Else, just <delete>!

Thorin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marty.Thorin
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 1:22 PM
> To: Glenn Johnson (E-mail); Dave Johnson (home) (E-mail);
> IowaInterurbansandStreetRailways (E-mail)
> Subject: IATR 53
>
> Dear Glenn:
> To answer your question, the CERA books "Iowa Trolleys" and "Texas
> Electric" both say her Texas Electric number is 801. (I do not have any
> direct knowledge of the Texas Electric.)
> 801 is a Class A motor was built in the 1920s from TE 314. She has
> 800 and 802 as sisters. All three were 600 / 1200 Volt motors with a 400
> ton capacity.
> When the TE shut down in 1949 800 and 802 were scrapped. 801 was
> sold to the Charles City Western in Charles City, Iowa. This 1200 volt
> line repainted and renumbered her 303. In 1963 the Charles City Western
> was sold to the Iowa Terminal Railroad and became the Charles City
> Division. (The other half was the Mason City Division.) 303 was
> repainted and renumber to 53, the number she has today. In 1968 the wire
> of the Charles City division was taken down. The TE was brought to Mason
> City. I remember hearing about the first time Ed Allen raised the pole on
> 53 in Mason City. After first going to the electrical cabinet and
> throwing the switch from 1200 volts to 600 volts, Ed raised the pole.
> Nothing happened. There was an immediate cloud of blue smoke but that was
> the paint curling in response to the language used! Investigation
> revealed that all of the 600 volt wiring had been removed during her stay
> in Charles City. 53 was rewired for Mason City's 600 volts. (I wonder if
> Ed ripped out the 1200 volt wiring while rewiring for 600 volts. Will the
> same paint curl from her new Master Mechanic if she is ever lucky enough
> to see 1200 volts again?)
> Today 53 is alive and well and stored in operating condition. (Put
> up the pole and she will go.) She is inside the butter plant (AMPI) in
> Mason City.
>
> Meanwhile, still in Texas...
> Texas Transportation Company #2 is former TE 952. She was built in
> 1929 from 353. Sister Class C locomotive 951 was built from 352 and was
> scrapped in 1949. The Class C have a much smaller capacity at 275 tons.
> IATR 53 has the length you would normally expect in a steeple cab -- less
> than forty feet. 352 and 353 both look like they retained not only the
> electricals from the parent interurban car, they also retained the frame.
> They have a normal, steeplecab sized cab on top with very long 'porches'
> on both ends. Maybe they do have 352 and 353's frames... but that would
> be pure conjecture.
>
> Thorin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22068 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/25/2002
Subject: The secrit of Sam the Semaphore
There have been a couple posts recently about wiring up a semaphore. I recently converted my layout to the AC (base post) common rail system Gilbert advocated and included Sam the Semaphore on one of the control blocks. The wiring was a little tricky, but here is what I've discovered: On a common rail system, the variable post rail is the rail that is broken using fiber pins to create separate control blocks. The base post rail remains unbroken throughout the layout and the transformer base posts are wired together after the transformers are put in phase. Yet Sam is constructed for the common base post rail to be broken. No problem. I thought of it as a semaphore control block within a control block. A section or two away from each end of the control block (where I wanted Sam) where the variable post rails broke, I broke the base post rails. I thought it best to avoid having the fiber pins side-by-side on the same track joint or the loco may stall there when the tender wheels hit that spot. I connected Sam's lead to the track onto the base post rail within that base post rail break. Then I powered up Sam with a #697 track trip. On a common base post rail system, the wiring in of Sam the Semaphore is one instance where the base post rails are broken. Does anyone disagree with this procedure?

Tim Brown

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22069 From: Charles Messinger Date: 11/25/2002
Subject: 751 log loader
Hello! Can anyone tell me where I might be able to get an exploded
view of the 751? Got one with missing parts and need to see what I
need. Never had one before so I'm in the dark. A suggestion of a book
I should buy for this and other accessories would also be
appreciated! Thanks.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22070 From: John G Date: 11/25/2002
Subject: Re: The secret of Sam the Semaphore
"Tim Brown" <Timboy@a...> wrote:

=> On a common base post rail system, the wiring in of Sam the
Semaphore is one instance where the base post rails are broken.

Tim,

Your scheme seems reasonable to me. You may want to run a jumper
wire around the base rail block to help preserve the continuity of
the base rail system.

Some thoughts if you want to run a block on the variable voltage rail:

I looked at the insides of my Sam the Semaphore Man to see if it
could be altered to break the variable voltage rail. Didn't appear
to be very easy. You could reconnect the frame of Sam to the
variable voltage and get the switching you want, but it would mess up
the grounding for the lamp. A workaround would be to have Sam
control a 12 volt relay so you can switch the other rail.

I did something like this for the Cow on Track. I didn't want the
full track current to possibly melt the plastic on the accessory, so
I had it control a 12 volt relay which then controlled the train.
Fairly simple to make with Radio Shack parts (12 volt DC relay,
rectifier to convert the ac to dc for the relay coil, and a 10 ohm 10
watt bleed resistor to keep the E unit from cycling). I had to
disconnect one side of the 10 ohm resistor in Cow on Track so the
bleed through current wouldn't prevent the relay from releasing.

In closing, I will share with you my wife's logic about my Flyer
hobby. If she smells smoke, she knows I'm probably running the
trains. If she hears a loud pop or bang and then smells smoke, she
know's I'm working on the layout wiring!

John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 22071 From: Uncle Thor Date: 11/26/2002
Subject: New Fun Layouts for Kids Posted
Just posted some fun track plans for kids. These are easy to set up,
easy to scenick, and offer lots of action. There are four basic
plans for each track type: American Flyer S, Atlas O, O tubular, O27,
MTH O, Standard Gauge, #1 gauge / G scale, and HO. All of the O
layouts and S layouts also show an example of using Plasticville
buildings. The HO plans show generic buildings in use. For scale
modelers, please note that these layouts are more for fun than for
serious scale model railroading. You can easily build, scenick and
wire them in a few hours.

There are actually eight plans for S. One set is for plain wiring.
The other has a section that requires wiring for a reverse loop. You
can easily substitute S-Helper's S Trax for American Flyer track, for
these plans.

Plans are in the O/O27 and S sections of my website, listed as "Fun
Layouts for Kids." http://www.thortrains.net

Happy Thanksgiving, everybody!

Thor
Group: S-Trains Message: 22072 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/26/2002
Subject: Was Gilbert pure?
Hi S-listers:

Here's something maybe someone on the list would know:

Does anyone have evidence that Gilbert technicians used non-factory electronics to enhance the train operations on the display layouts they built in the Gilbert Hall of Science. I'm not referring to lighting or other environmental effects, but more the use of capacitors, diodes, resistors, rectifiers, etc. to influence the operation of the actual trains, rolling stock and accessories.

I figure that if they did use those things, then that set the precedence for us to use them too and still have a "pure" Flyer layout.

Curious,
Tim Brown

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22073 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/26/2002
Subject: purity
The concept of "purity" is useless in terms of Gilbert Flyer trains. Many
parts and subassemblies were made by outside contractors, especially
electronic parts such as those involved in the whistles, horns, etc. For
example, in trying to find replacement circuit breakers for Flyer
transformers, I have learned that the originals were made by Klixon and
Wilcolator. Almost all Flyer transformers have breakers from one company
or the other.

It would be impossible to draw a clear line between what is "pure Gilbert"
and what is not.

I use the entire Gilbert track and electrical system, because everything
works so well together, and the system is ideally suited for creating
excellent temporary layouts quickly. Philosophy has nothing to do with it.
Results are what count.

Tom Jarcho

P.S.: I have heard that the Hall of Science layout ran on DC.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22074 From: John Brockmann Date: 11/26/2002
Subject: Re: New Fun Layouts for Kids Posted
Great layouts!!! I will try one just as soon as I tear up my X-Mass
layout. These are just what I have been looking for.....Thanks,John B.

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Uncle Thor" <allgauge@b...> wrote:
> Just posted some fun track plans for kids. These are easy to set
up,
> easy to scenick, and offer lots of action. There are four basic
> plans for each track type: American Flyer S, Atlas O, O tubular,
O27,
> MTH O, Standard Gauge, #1 gauge / G scale, and HO. All of the O
> layouts and S layouts also show an example of using Plasticville
> buildings. The HO plans show generic buildings in use. For scale
> modelers, please note that these layouts are more for fun than for
> serious scale model railroading. You can easily build, scenick and
> wire them in a few hours.
>
> There are actually eight plans for S. One set is for plain
wiring.
> The other has a section that requires wiring for a reverse loop.
You
> can easily substitute S-Helper's S Trax for American Flyer track,
for
> these plans.
>
> Plans are in the O/O27 and S sections of my website, listed as "Fun
> Layouts for Kids." http://www.thortrains.net
>
> Happy Thanksgiving, everybody!
>
> Thor
Group: S-Trains Message: 22075 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/26/2002
Subject: Re: purity
Tom,

By "pure", I mean it was sold from the Gilbert factory as a finished product, whether they subbed some parts out or not. It would be ridiculous to imagine that the factory made EVERYTHING they used to make up their Flyer line. They weren't a paper mill, or a plastics mill or a steel mill. But their name was stamped on the things they sold.

Thanks,
Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: jarcho@...
To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:52 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] purity


The concept of "purity" is useless in terms of Gilbert Flyer trains. Many
parts and subassemblies were made by outside contractors, especially
electronic parts such as those involved in the whistles, horns, etc. For
example, in trying to find replacement circuit breakers for Flyer
transformers, I have learned that the originals were made by Klixon and
Wilcolator. Almost all Flyer transformers have breakers from one company
or the other.

It would be impossible to draw a clear line between what is "pure Gilbert"
and what is not.

I use the entire Gilbert track and electrical system, because everything
works so well together, and the system is ideally suited for creating
excellent temporary layouts quickly. Philosophy has nothing to do with it.
Results are what count.

Tom Jarcho

P.S.: I have heard that the Hall of Science layout ran on DC.




S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22076 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/26/2002
Subject: Clarification on Gilbert pure
I just wondered if they "cheated" and made their trains and accessories operate better on their display layouts with elements that they didn't design into the trains for mass market.

Tim Brown

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22077 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/26/2002
Subject: Re: purity
Tom J....I think the term "Purity" refers to using only A C Gilbert
products....Ac didn't make structures...but they were sold under the AC
name, Jeeps were by Tootsietoy ( Warning...only the ones with the thick
trailer hitch are AC's) The thin ones are general 5 and 10 items...I once
spent several hours with Mike Kolosis ( misspelled no doubt)..Every thing he
had on that GREAT LAYOUT was from Gilbert...Except plaster and paint.....He
even used A real circus set to set up....Not A Greenburg repro...A lot of
Erector was used..He had both ac and dc.....I remember how smooth it all
worked....Only one wreck....I forgot about the reverse on the 0-6-0 and RAN
IT OFF THE TRACK.....

Thats why, when I start my new layout this winter...A 24" wide shelf around
the 9'-6" x 13'-6" room I am considering going back to all AC stuff.....I do
think I will run one wall with Lemax buildings....I also feel Plasticville
goes with Flyer...Remember Lyingonel sold it as a product....Given time AC
would probley have added it...this might be the reason for the Buildings he
sold...He couldn't get rights to repackage Plasticville or Littletown...

Bob Conner
----- Original Message -----
From: <jarcho@...>
To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:52 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] purity


> The concept of "purity" is useless in terms of Gilbert Flyer trains. Many
> parts and subassemblies were made by outside contractors, especially
> electronic parts such as those involved in the whistles, horns, etc. For
> example, in trying to find replacement circuit breakers for Flyer
> transformers, I have learned that the originals were made by Klixon and
> Wilcolator. Almost all Flyer transformers have breakers from one company
> or the other.
>
> It would be impossible to draw a clear line between what is "pure Gilbert"
> and what is not.
>
> I use the entire Gilbert track and electrical system, because everything
> works so well together, and the system is ideally suited for creating
> excellent temporary layouts quickly. Philosophy has nothing to do with
it.
> Results are what count.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> P.S.: I have heard that the Hall of Science layout ran on DC.
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22078 From: trainman634 Date: 11/26/2002
Subject: Windows for caboose
I have a question I hope you folks can answer for me. I am thinking
of buying a American Flyer New Caboose from Hobby Surplus. I want
windows in the caboose like a lighted caboose. Are the windows glued
in the caboose? Does someone make the windows for American Flyer
cabooses? Is there someone in this group that would do this job fof
me for a fee? Thank you for your help.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22079 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 11/26/2002
Subject: Oil Depot Photos
Hi everyone,

I have posted some photos of my LVM oil depot with four extra Lionel
oil tanks. You can find them at:

http://66.111.44.40/~pyorke/albums/view_album.php?
set_albumName=album43

I hope you enjoy them.

BG1
Group: S-Trains Message: 22080 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/26/2002
Subject: Re: Oil Depot Photos
Bull, your link got broken, try
http://66.111.44.40/~pyorke/albums/
then navigate to Model Trains > Photos From Our S
Friends > Bull Gator
--- bull_gator_1 <bull_gator_1@...> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I have posted some photos of my LVM oil depot with
> four extra Lionel
> oil tanks. You can find them at:
>
> http://66.111.44.40/~pyorke/albums/view_album.php?
> set_albumName=album43
>
> I hope you enjoy them.
>
> BG1
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories
> too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 22081 From: theheadliner Date: 11/26/2002
Subject: Re: 1/64 Scale Cars at K-Mart
John,

I noticed your letter about the 1/64 scale cars at K-Mart. I stopped in our
K-Mart and looked at them. Drove across the highway and looked at Wal-Mart.
They have the same identical line there. However the $2.99 ones at K-Mart
were $2.74 at Wal-Mart and the K-M $4.99 ones were $2.88 at Wal-Mart,
slightly over half as much. In addition Wal-Mart had pickups with gooseneck
lowboy trailers, semis, and Ertle's full line of tractors and similar
implements. In fact they had sets of 5 cars for $9.84. For $7.96 you can get
the ones with a vintage and recent model car with a highway billboard
included. Wal-Mart had at least 10 models to choose from for every one
K-Mart had, all in 1/64th scale. You need to look around.

Jerry

---------------

JConn444@... writes:

> This may be old news to most but I just came back from our local K-Mart. I always watch the diecast toys for my grandson. They have a 1/64 line of cars made especially for K-Mart. Hoods and trunks open and they look pretty good. Cars like 1958 Impala, 1963 Ford, 1957 Chrysler, 1969 GTO, etc. They are individually packaged under the store brand of "Route 66." Prices were 2.99 - 4.99.

John Conn

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get your free email at http://quickmail.quickhosts.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 22082 From: Knight, Gene Date: 11/26/2002
Subject: boilerplate problem on a 312
I have a 312 that keeps losing the boilerplate. On the right side.....there is what seems to be a little tab with a dop of solder on it. Could I just put a drop of new solder on it to make it tight once again? There was nothing on the left side and nothing is broken.

Thanks!

Gene
Group: S-Trains Message: 22083 From: David Dewey Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Re: Windows for caboose
No windows in the HSS AF caboose, but ACG's windows were small pieces of
clear plastic glued in. LTI made a one-piece window insert that should fit,
part #40-8702-025, I don't know if they are still available.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22084 From: Don Thompson Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Re: SHS China Report
Mike and I are back from our China trip just in time for
Thanksgiving. We had a great trip (other than the fact it that I have
been up from 4:30 AM as I cannot sleep...Jet Lag?) and discussed many
current and future project with our engineers and the design team. The
first thing was an update on the progress of all of our project in
production. Most of our next run of reefers/rebuilts and the 10" track
left this week and are expected in the next three weeks. The rest of
our reefers/rebuilts are due to be shipped in two weeks with most of the

F-7s and 5" track/bumpers. The balance of the reefers/rebuilts for
other clients, AT&SF passenger F-7s, uncouplers, 5" outside third rail
and 5" uncoupler will scheduled to leave right before Christmas. We saw

and approved the color proofs of the 2003 catalogs and we will have 1600

FedEx in to be mailed next week. The rest will go by container later
this month.
One priority of ours was to see the progress on the #3 switch
modifications. We have had several tooling changes that will allow our
#3 switch to operate both the AF compatible and code 110 wheels. We now

have a "swing nose" on the frog that makes it self guarding and has
eliminated the need for guard rails. This should greatly help with the
problem of out of gauge wheelsets. We had hoped to produce check gages
once we found the numbers needed to allow AF compatible wheelsets to use

open frogs, but it was very frustrating as no one knew the exact numbers

needed for check gage or back to back that AC Gilbert used during
production. Other enhancements include using a relay circuit for 2
train/ reg. operation instead of the points for electrical contact. The

points are now hard wired to the stock rail. A limiting circuit has
been added to the switch controller to prevent coil overheating. Extra
spikes have been added to all short rails for reinforcement. A new
keyed connector for the extension wires to prevent the wires from being
plugged out of phase and damaging the coil. We saw 4 hand made
engineering samples of our #3 switch and saw the testing that they had
conducted. We approved these samples and they will now make new pcbs
for the electronics and submit them for our approval. They are planning

to start production after the new year and ship these out to us after
the Chinese New Year. I am very sorry we will not have this product in
time for Christmas, but we felt these modifications were too important
to rush and I am sure everyone will be very happy with these
enhancements.
We next saw production of our F-7s. I guess their is something
mystical about standing in the middle of the production line and seeing
what seems like hundreds of people working on your project. They were
assembling D&RGW F-7s. It is a joyful din seeing sub assemblies moving
towards the end of the line where they are being packaged. Right before

packaging you can hear the horn and bell as each engine is tested for
sound, lights and operation. We also saw more samples of the final
finish on the AT&SF passenger warbonnet F-7s as well as the final
samples of the 5" track project and decorated samples for the next
hopper.
Back to the design room for the real work, going over the drawings.
We spent some time on the #5 switch, now that the #3 switch enhancements

have been approved, the #5 drawings could be updated. We were told
tooling could start in February. We went over the ore car in great
detail. I had e-mailed corrections the week before so we only had to
answer questions. The revised drawings are expected next month. If
corrections to the revised drawings are minimal, tooling can start in
February. Same with the 2-8-0, we went over the needed changes in the
backhead, gave them drawings from the Loco Cycs and also prototype
photos that I had on my constant companion, not Mike, but my G-3
Powerbook. It is it's second trip to China (same as Mike). At the end,

I gave them a zip disc with all of the images. We also had O scale
brass parts to help with some of the backhead details. Lastly, we
worked on the E-7 drawings. Still a lot of work needed here as the E-7s

had many modifications. It seems that every railroads E-7s was unique
in some way, roof vents, side vents, car bodies, steam heat variations,
pilots, window shape....Yikes!
During our visit, we talked about new projects. With the 5" track
project completed (5" track, bumper, outside third rail and uncoupler)
and #5 switch being ready to be tooled, it was time to go over the
proposals and start the design of the next track project, crossings. We

will start with a 90° and 30° crossings. The 90° will be 5" x 5" and
come with 2.5" track sections so a 10" section can be made. The 30°
will be 10" long on each leg and will allow a #3 switch to cross the
adjacent mainline. This should make for some interesting layouts. We
are hoping to see drawings early next year. Future motive power and
freight cars were discussed as well as some railroad structures we would

like to see produced.
Part of the fun of going to China, is who you may end up seeing on
the visit. We ran in to Maury Kline the first day in China and had
dinner with him at our hotel. I guess I have known Maury for as long as

anyone else in the business, meeting him at York years ago when Robin
and I had Train Stuff. He has always been a lot of fun to talk with and

more than happy to help answer questions and be a huge help with
theory. I think one of the neater things about being an S gauge train
mfg. is that companies in other scale do not see you as a threat and are

willing to talk. I always thought that they must think we are nuts to
be in S scale as the market is so small. After dinner, it was back to
the design room for more discussions. The first night we left at 10 PM.

The meetings are actually very tedious. We would discuss some
aspect of the design or drawings we would like changed. Present our
case with images on the laptop, drawings or samples then listen as
several engineers, computer design draftsman, the translator and the
managers talk 10-20 minutes in Chinese about your point. Every now and
then, our senior engineer asks a question and then goes back to discuss
my answer. While they talk, I get the next set of samples drawings,
images, etc. ready and wait. Finally, the engineers looks over and
indicates OK and we go on to the next revision. This goes on for hours
and for this trip, three day. I think Mike realizes how truly committed

I have become (or should truly be committed).
But, it is not all work. The food is great, but by the end of the
trip, McDonalds does start to look good. On Saturday, we ate at an
Outback in Hong Kong. Like McDonalds, that food is exactly the same as
here. On the trip to China, we got to ride the train and the way back
the turbo jet ferries. We shopped for our kids and wives on Saturday
and went to Macau with Mr. Ting on Sunday (more Turbo Jets). Monday we
left and again the G-3 Powerbook came through as I watch the Spiderman
DVD that Robin had bought for me before I left and Rush Hour with Mike.
It helps make the 14 hours in the air (12 between Hong Kong and China
and 2 more from Chicago to Newark) go by a little easier.
I only took a few digital photos as I was having battery problems.
Don
PS We were able to Air Freight a few production F-7s that had been
completed back with us from China. We have a few Locomatic AC/DC sound
single A units, B&M #1 and #2, PRR #1 and MP #2 and PRR A-A unit sets.
If you have these on order from us, you may see a package in the next
few days.



-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
2002 Christmas Car, 2 & 3 bay PS-2s & Composite hoppers are now
shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/3bayps2_in_stock.html
http://www.showcaseline.com/2bayps2_in_stock.html
http://www.showcaseline.com/CompositeHoppers/compositehoppers.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 22085 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Re: SHS China Report
Don,

A facinating letter. A Big THANK YOU for all you are doing for "S" gauge.

Carl

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Thompson [mailto:robin@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 8:00 AM
To: Showcaseline; S Scale group; S-Train
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: SHS China Report


Mike and I are back from our China trip just in time for Thanksgiving.
We had a great trip (other than the fact it that I have been up from 4:30 AM
as I cannot sleep...Jet Lag?) and discussed many current and future project
with our engineers and the design team. The first thing was an update on
the progress of all of our project in production. Most of our next run of
reefers/rebuilts and the 10" track left this week and are expected in the
next three weeks. The rest of our reefers/rebuilts are due to be shipped in
two weeks with most of the

F-7s and 5" track/bumpers. The balance of the reefers/rebuilts for other
clients, AT&SF passenger F-7s, uncouplers, 5" outside third rail and 5"
uncoupler will scheduled to leave right before Christmas. We saw

and approved the color proofs of the 2003 catalogs and we will have 1600

FedEx in to be mailed next week. The rest will go by container later this
month.
One priority of ours was to see the progress on the #3 switch
modifications. We have had several tooling changes that will allow our #3
switch to operate both the AF compatible and code 110 wheels. We now

have a "swing nose" on the frog that makes it self guarding and has
eliminated the need for guard rails. This should greatly help with the
problem of out of gauge wheelsets. We had hoped to produce check gages once
we found the numbers needed to allow AF compatible wheelsets to use

open frogs, but it was very frustrating as no one knew the exact numbers

needed for check gage or back to back that AC Gilbert used during
production. Other enhancements include using a relay circuit for 2 train/
reg. operation instead of the points for electrical contact. The

points are now hard wired to the stock rail. A limiting circuit has been
added to the switch controller to prevent coil overheating. Extra spikes
have been added to all short rails for reinforcement. A new keyed connector
for the extension wires to prevent the wires from being plugged out of phase
and damaging the coil. We saw 4 hand made engineering samples of our #3
switch and saw the testing that they had conducted. We approved these
samples and they will now make new pcbs for the electronics and submit them
for our approval. They are planning

to start production after the new year and ship these out to us after the
Chinese New Year. I am very sorry we will not have this product in time for
Christmas, but we felt these modifications were too important to rush and I
am sure everyone will be very happy with these enhancements.
We next saw production of our F-7s. I guess their is something mystical
about standing in the middle of the production line and seeing what seems
like hundreds of people working on your project. They were assembling D&RGW
F-7s. It is a joyful din seeing sub assemblies moving towards the end of
the line where they are being packaged. Right before

packaging you can hear the horn and bell as each engine is tested for sound,
lights and operation. We also saw more samples of the final finish on the
AT&SF passenger warbonnet F-7s as well as the final samples of the 5" track
project and decorated samples for the next hopper.
Back to the design room for the real work, going over the drawings. We
spent some time on the #5 switch, now that the #3 switch enhancements

have been approved, the #5 drawings could be updated. We were told tooling
could start in February. We went over the ore car in great detail. I had
e-mailed corrections the week before so we only had to answer questions.
The revised drawings are expected next month. If corrections to the revised
drawings are minimal, tooling can start in February. Same with the 2-8-0,
we went over the needed changes in the backhead, gave them drawings from the
Loco Cycs and also prototype photos that I had on my constant companion, not
Mike, but my G-3 Powerbook. It is it's second trip to China (same as Mike).
At the end,

I gave them a zip disc with all of the images. We also had O scale brass
parts to help with some of the backhead details. Lastly, we worked on the
E-7 drawings. Still a lot of work needed here as the E-7s

had many modifications. It seems that every railroads E-7s was unique in
some way, roof vents, side vents, car bodies, steam heat variations, pilots,
window shape....Yikes!
During our visit, we talked about new projects. With the 5" track
project completed (5" track, bumper, outside third rail and uncoupler) and
#5 switch being ready to be tooled, it was time to go over the proposals and
start the design of the next track project, crossings. We

will start with a 90° and 30° crossings. The 90° will be 5" x 5" and come
with 2.5" track sections so a 10" section can be made. The 30° will be 10"
long on each leg and will allow a #3 switch to cross the adjacent mainline.
This should make for some interesting layouts. We are hoping to see
drawings early next year. Future motive power and freight cars were
discussed as well as some railroad structures we would

like to see produced.
Part of the fun of going to China, is who you may end up seeing on the
visit. We ran in to Maury Kline the first day in China and had dinner with
him at our hotel. I guess I have known Maury for as long as

anyone else in the business, meeting him at York years ago when Robin and I
had Train Stuff. He has always been a lot of fun to talk with and

more than happy to help answer questions and be a huge help with theory. I
think one of the neater things about being an S gauge train mfg. is that
companies in other scale do not see you as a threat and are

willing to talk. I always thought that they must think we are nuts to be in
S scale as the market is so small. After dinner, it was back to the design
room for more discussions. The first night we left at 10 PM.

The meetings are actually very tedious. We would discuss some aspect of
the design or drawings we would like changed. Present our case with images
on the laptop, drawings or samples then listen as several engineers,
computer design draftsman, the translator and the managers talk 10-20
minutes in Chinese about your point. Every now and then, our senior
engineer asks a question and then goes back to discuss my answer. While
they talk, I get the next set of samples drawings, images, etc. ready and
wait. Finally, the engineers looks over and indicates OK and we go on to
the next revision. This goes on for hours and for this trip, three day. I
think Mike realizes how truly committed

I have become (or should truly be committed).
But, it is not all work. The food is great, but by the end of the trip,
McDonalds does start to look good. On Saturday, we ate at an Outback in
Hong Kong. Like McDonalds, that food is exactly the same as here. On the
trip to China, we got to ride the train and the way back the turbo jet
ferries. We shopped for our kids and wives on Saturday and went to Macau
with Mr. Ting on Sunday (more Turbo Jets). Monday we left and again the G-3
Powerbook came through as I watch the Spiderman DVD that Robin had bought
for me before I left and Rush Hour with Mike. It helps make the 14 hours in
the air (12 between Hong Kong and China and 2 more from Chicago to Newark)
go by a little easier.
I only took a few digital photos as I was having battery problems. Don
PS We were able to Air Freight a few production F-7s that had been
completed back with us from China. We have a few Locomatic AC/DC sound
single A units, B&M #1 and #2, PRR #1 and MP #2 and PRR A-A unit sets. If
you have these on order from us, you may see a package in the next few days.



-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
2002 Christmas Car, 2 & 3 bay PS-2s & Composite hoppers are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/3bayps2_in_stock.html
http://www.showcaseline.com/2bayps2_in_stock.html
http://www.showcaseline.com/CompositeHoppers/compositehoppers.html



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Group: S-Trains Message: 22086 From: Don Abrams Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Purity?
Well, if they did use DC on the display layout in the Hall of Science -- was
the DC pure?
Or was it merely half wave or full wave?
Tongue Firmly Planted in Cheek.
Don
Group: S-Trains Message: 22087 From: Steve Blancard Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Any train shops in Hawaii ?
I'm going to Honolulu and a Pearl Harbor on a business trip December
2-7. Are there any S friendly train shops or interesting train
places to visit ?

Thanks,
Steve Blancard
Crustyfour
Group: S-Trains Message: 22088 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1660
Living in Colorado I didn't have the opportunity to see the Gilbert
display in N.Y.C., only pictures, I would assume that the train equipment
running on the layout was stock ( right off the production line )
remember if it quit, or gave some trouble the person (s) in charge just
went to the "spring" and dipped out a new piece of equipment. For
several years I had set up a large operating Christmas display in the
visitors lobby of the Coors brewing Co. First with LIONEL and FLYER
equipment owned by myself and other employees, it was disastrous,
running 8 hours, 6 days, Nov. thru Jan. Wheels were run off at the axles
( mostly LIONEL ), axles run out bearings, motor brushes would wear
groves into the armatures, motors would over heat, cars wheels warn so
bad they wouldn't stay on the track, fix and repair every evening.
Second year I set up a layout using LB. It is still around the Christmas
tree today. The use can motors, good motor and wheel bearings and wheel
configuration of todays models run much better. Yes I do have a large
layout in my basement 13' x 35' , 4 loops running "O" FLYER, "S" FLYER,
Sheller, some scale D.C., even a little LIONEL (it was a gift from my
cousins, their first train), but I don't run them, 8 hours, 6 days. I
like any type of toy train. I appreciate what the "S" manufactures are
doing for us today in the hobby, and I enjoy being part of this group.

Jerry 77-11644

________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22089 From: Steve Blancard Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: LED Headlamp...again
I know this has been discussed in the past but I can't seem to find
the message. Someone told about an a LED that is a perfect
replacement for the headlamp lens. Remove the lens and the LED fits
in from the back perfectly. Does anyone know exactly which LED this
would be?

I'm resuurecting/customizing a 300 diecast Atlantic and it's headlamp
bulb bracket is broken. Along with a can motor and new paint I
figure its a good candidate for an LED headlamp.

Thanks,
Steve Blancard
Crustyfour
Group: S-Trains Message: 22090 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: best wishes to all
Happy Turkey Day to all S gauge turkeys. May you gobble up the eats!

It's train season now!

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 22091 From: knockbill Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: best wishes to all
Thanks, Tom.. The same to you...... and everyone else
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 22092 From: knockbill Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: best wishes to all
Thanks, Tom.. The same to you...... and everyone else
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 22093 From: waldootten Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: LWT12 in Frederick layout
Hello, List --

I see what looks like an EMD LWT12 streamline locomotive in a few of
the photos recently posted by the North Penn S Gaugers of their
marvelous layout at the Frederick Mennonite Home Train Show.

http://kulpritterpics.homestead.com/frederickhome.html

Glenn said "That is the 50s unit train. One was made for the Pennsy.
One of our members bought it at York a few weeks ago for $300. It is
S gauge but I don't have the manufacturers label."

So know I am turning to this wonderful list for help.

I grew up about a mile from the LaGrange, Ill. Electro Motive plant.
They had a model of an LWT12 scaled down to fit on an automobile
chassis for running in local parades (the WGN-TV-televised LaGrange
Pet Parade, for one) for publicity purposes. EMD also had a steam
locomotive model for parades, too -- also mounted on a vehicle
chassis. Have no idea whatever happened to them. You knew they were
coming because one could hear the horns and the whistle a mile away.
I have read that only three of the protos were produced (too hard a
ride) and a couple finished their run in commuter service on the Rock
Island.

The model LTW12 in the photos -- Is it S-Gauge? (I assume it is
judging by the track and the sponsor of the layout.) Who manufactured
it? Where might I get one?

Thanks,

Phil K
Group: S-Trains Message: 22094 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Re: FREDERICK HOME TRAIN SHOW
The special train on my website is manufactured
by American Hi Rail, R.Tom Hodgson's
phone / fax number is (847)587-1116.
These were made in 2001 and only a limited
number are left. Hope this helps.

American Hi-Rail
R.Tom Hodgson
37695 Jeanette Ct.
Spring Grove, Il. 60081
Phone / Fax (847)587-1116

Here are some of the pictures from our
show on November 15th & 16th.

http://kulpritterpics.homestead.com/frederickhome.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 22095 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1660
Gilbert made wide radius track for the second floor Hall of Science layout.
The trains in
the New York first floor display had no reverse units. --- Nick


>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:37:29 -0500
> From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>
>Subject: Was Gilbert pure?
>
>Hi S-listers:
>
>Here's something maybe someone on the list would know:
>
>Does anyone have evidence that Gilbert technicians used non-factory
>electronics to enhance the train operations on the display layouts they
>built in the Gilbert Hall of Science. I'm not referring to lighting or
>other environmental effects, but more the use of capacitors, diodes,
>resistors, rectifiers, etc. to influence the operation of the actual
>trains, rolling stock and accessories.
>
>I figure that if they did use those things, then that set the precedence
>for us to use them too and still have a "pure" Flyer layout.
>
>Curious,
>Tim Brown
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
Group: S-Trains Message: 22096 From: Steve Blancard Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: The Tioga Lumber Co. gets a new teakettle
In my constant search for new and interesting loads for my S converted
Bachmann freight cars I came up with this. I saw a photo of a similar load in
a book on old railroads and figured a little narrow gauge Porter would be fun
to do. The Porter is from Bachmann as well as the flatcar. It is pulled by
my custom AF Franklin 4-4-0.

I've posted two photos in the "Bachmann ON30 conversion" folder, Files section
of the Yahoo S-trains web site. Here are links to each photo:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Bachmann%20ON30%20Conversion/Tioga1.jpg

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Bachmann%20ON30%20Conversion/Tioga2.jpg



Hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed building it. I'm sure the Tioga Lumber
Co. will be glad when it arrives!

Happy Thanksgiving to all

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 22097 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1660
They made the wide radius track by dissassembling a curve section and gently
rebending to the new radius...then reapplying the ties....track was also cut
to length as required...As for the reverse units..this seems very
logical...no odd reversing!!!!!!...Or did they simply use the "lock out"
under the tender......Bob Conner
Group: S-Trains Message: 22098 From: Bill Lane Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Southwind S Scale B & O EM-1
Hi All,

I am very happy to announce that the Southwind Models EM-1 has arrived. I
currently have 2 of them here to photograph. I will be getting another
version after Jettie is finished shipping the orders. He said the balance
should be shipped in a few days.

I had them running around my dinky loop that has mid - 50" radius. They went
around just fine. The boiler overhang was pretty substantial though.

Here are a few photos. I made them a little on the large side on purpose. I
wanted you to be able to "climb around it". I really like the 3/4 view.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/EM-1_side.jpg

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/EM-1_3_4_View.jpg

Again, if you ordered one, you will be getting it soon. If you have not
ordered one, there are still a few available. Please give Jettie a call @
813-752-1636. However, the post-shipping price does apply at this time.

Enjoy!

Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 22099 From: Tom Pennington Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Pikemaster Adaptor Pins
Does anyone know if the pikemaster adaptor pins would work with American
Models track? I have never seen these up close, but the basic premise
would be the same as between pikemaster and older AF track.
Also, does anyone know of a source for pre-formed cork roadbed for S, or do
most just use the O scale stuff. Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Tom


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22100 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1660
Hi,

That's interesting. Bending track rails is not adding extraneous electronics. Neither is "hot wiring" the loco to run permanently in one direction. Doesn't sound like they had their trains on any kind of electronic steroids. Good to know. Thanks for the information.

Happy "pure" Thanksgiving!

Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: Nick and Becky Colleran
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1660


Gilbert made wide radius track for the second floor Hall of Science layout.
The trains in
the New York first floor display had no reverse units. --- Nick


>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:37:29 -0500
> From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>
>Subject: Was Gilbert pure?
>
>Hi S-listers:
>
>Here's something maybe someone on the list would know:
>
>Does anyone have evidence that Gilbert technicians used non-factory
>electronics to enhance the train operations on the display layouts they
>built in the Gilbert Hall of Science. I'm not referring to lighting or
>other environmental effects, but more the use of capacitors, diodes,
>resistors, rectifiers, etc. to influence the operation of the actual
>trains, rolling stock and accessories.
>
>I figure that if they did use those things, then that set the precedence
>for us to use them too and still have a "pure" Flyer layout.
>
>Curious,
>Tim Brown
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________



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All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22101 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Re: Pikemaster Adaptor Pins
Tom Pennington wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if the pikemaster adaptor pins would work with American
> Models track? I have never seen these up close, but the basic premise
> would be the same as between pikemaster and older AF track.
I have seen them up close and don't think they would work. AM rail is
significantly shorter in height. I have connected them by soldering
braided wire between the 2. Needs a high wattage iron, lots of solder
and flux for steel. Clean AM rail to shiny brass and AF to shiny steel
where the wire attaches.
> Also, does anyone know of a source for pre-formed cork roadbed for S, or do
> most just use the O scale stuff.
I use 1/2 of an O with 1/2 of an HO to get the proper width. You can do
this because they're the same thickness. Also. I think Scenery
Unlimited now sells cork at the proper S width.
>Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving to all.
>
> Tom
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 22102 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Re: The Tioga Lumber Co. gets a new teakettle
Hello Steve and All,
Great idea for a load Steve, you did a fine job. Where do you get the
chain to lash that little beast down?..............................
To All, Happy Thanksgiving!.....................

Oh Boy! Trains!..................Herky 1950....
Obie Bell
Group: S-Trains Message: 22103 From: TCS Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: YAHOO GROUPS - Sorry off topic post - Please read - Don't delete
I don't know if this will affect us, but you all better update your
profiles on Yahoo or our groups might just get deleted witout warning.
Better to be safe than sorry.

Subject: YAHOO GROUPS



For Owner/Mod/Members,
This friend gave me his site, and Please read this very important
because Yahoo Group has set up for new rules on new year day.
Click this: http://www.angelfire.com/bc2/ggdoll/yahoogroups.html

---
---
Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals
N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals for prototype models
26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054
Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@...
Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/
Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/
NMRA Member #121756
Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
MPHS web site http://mopac.org/
---
---
Group: S-Trains Message: 22104 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Thanksgiving wishes
Happy Thanksgiving everyone. We hope you are all safe and with loved ones.

The first shipment of "S-Gauge Model Railroading" Volume, VI has been sent.
We only have 5 copies left. The lab is going to print us some more the first
week of January.

Steve & Sam...S'nS Trains....Boise




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22105 From: TCS Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Re: [freightcarworld] YAHOO GROUPS - Sorry off topic post - Please
Sorry, just wanted to make sure. Feel free to flame me and not the list,
I'll just delete it.
---
---
Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals
N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals for prototype models
26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054
Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@...
Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/
Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/
NMRA Member #121756
Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
MPHS web site http://mopac.org/



Tom, I just went to Yahoo (even though I can't stand the place) and
looked
around for something to confirm this. I couldn't find anything that
appeared to be about this. It just looks to me like somebody's trying
to
get more people to enter more information into the Yahoo database, which
is
mined on a regular basis to develop spamming techniques (probably by
Yahoo
itself as much as third parties).

The pages the link takes you to aren't written in a style I believe
would be
used by Yahoo. The grammar isn't very believable.

Personally, I don't like to list that much information about myself in
public places >on purpose.< I realize that a whole lot of information
is
collected every time I boot up and log on, but I can't help that, much.
Unless somebody can vouch for this being legit, I'm not going there.

And since when is freightcarworld an adults-only list. That's pretty
lame.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22106 From: Rick Evans Date: 11/27/2002
Subject: Re: The Tioga Lumber Co. gets a new teakettle
***(((In my constant search for new and interesting loads for my S converted
Bachmann freight cars I came up with this. I saw a photo of a similar load in
a book on old railroads and figured a little narrow gauge Porter would be fun
to do. The Porter is from Bachmann as well as the flatcar. It is pulled by
my custom AF Franklin 4-4-0.)))***

Very cool Steve!!!

Rick.









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22107 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 11/28/2002
Subject: Height
Hi all:
Taking a brief survey. How high did you make the benchwork for your
layouts, and would you change it after you have lived with it for a
while. I know with multilayered tracks, it is somewhat variable, but do
you have some suggestions as to main yards, etc. ? 40", 45", higher,
lower, etc. I currently am planning on having a main height at around
40", with a higher track somewhat above. There will be tracks from
level 1 to level 2, so it is really not two independent levels. I may
even put a yard on a third level lower than the two I am now planning.
(Note: as I am getting a little older, I am not too fond of crawling
around under low benchwork!!!)
Tx for info and I know that this thread went before, but what is your
latest thinking?
Rance Velapoldi
Group: S-Trains Message: 22108 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/28/2002
Subject: Re: Height
Rance.....I too am not foud of crawling under benchwork...My new shelf
layout will have A base height of 32"....It will be made of 1 x 4's with 1 x
4's at 24" o. c. cross members and bolted to the wall...Room is 9'6" x
13'-6" with a 24" shelf and A 12" +- shelf 6" above. This will just clear
the tops of my cataloge file cabinets...After I work out the track plan, I
plan to add 4" of styrofoam so I can do away with the totally flat
look...Carve as I please....One section will have A base height of about
12"....(4' long high trestle).....I plan to glue supports for A second level
about 6" above the first....As for the wiring...My round the wall layout
will be 2' wide....I plan to use a long drill to go through the foam and
1/4" plywood table...Attach the wires and drop them down...reach under with
a stick with a hook on it and the pull the wires thru the exposed front
table rail ( predrilled holes at 24" o. c. ) at about 1" below the
plywood....then after STANDING UP and connecting my wires I am going to run
them along the table front to my panel...Then cover the wiring with A nice
strip type cover of some kind...BTW if any body has any good plans for this
shape...let me know...At 64 I think this will be the last time I start over
on A layout...But who Knows? Bob Conner
Group: S-Trains Message: 22109 From: Doug Peck Date: 11/28/2002
Subject: Re: PM adaptor pins, & cork roadbed
<<< Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 22:15:08 -0500
From: Tom Pennington <tjpennington@...>
Subject: Pikemaster Adaptor Pins

Does anyone know if the pikemaster adaptor pins would work with American
Models track? I have never seen these up close, but the basic premise
would be the same as between pikemaster and older AF track.
Also, does anyone know of a source for pre-formed cork roadbed for S, or do
most just use the O scale stuff. Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving to all.
>>>

The PM adaptor pins will not work with AM. They INSERT into the rails on
both ends.
The SHS adaptor pins might be usable, however, even though it is code 125
rail.
(I'm asuming you want to mate AM and AF track?)

Scenery Unlimited offers cork roadbed in S, and we stock it here as well.

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supplies
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please).
http://www.portlines.com
doug@...
VISA -MC-DISCOVER-AMEX-PAYPAL Accepted.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22110 From: David Dewey Date: 11/28/2002
Subject: Happy T-Day !
Happy Thanksgiving to all!
S'
David Dewey
Group: S-Trains Message: 22111 From: mlmarmer Date: 11/28/2002
Subject: Re: Height
Hi Rance,

Happy Thanksgiving to you in Norway and everybody else here in the States.

From the book, "HO Railroad that Grows" from Kalmbach books, 1972 version,
they have a great plan for a table that I built back then, and the legs were
38" high. I believe this book is still in print.

Also, the table is a very well design, which I will adapt for a 12' x 8'
layout someday. If anybody wants me to scan this, I can. It was very
strong and sturdy.

By the book was two dollars in 1972 and the first edition was 1958.

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rance and Bente Velapoldi" <velapoldi@...>
To: "S-trains yahoo" <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>; "s-scale yahoo"
<s-scale@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 8:46 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Height


> Hi all:
> Taking a brief survey. How high did you make the benchwork for your
> layouts, and would you change it after you have lived with it for a
> while. I know with multilayered tracks, it is somewhat variable, but do
> you have some suggestions as to main yards, etc. ? 40", 45", higher,
> lower, etc. I currently am planning on having a main height at around
> 40", with a higher track somewhat above. There will be tracks from
> level 1 to level 2, so it is really not two independent levels. I may
> even put a yard on a third level lower than the two I am now planning.
> (Note: as I am getting a little older, I am not too fond of crawling
> around under low benchwork!!!)
> Tx for info and I know that this thread went before, but what is your
> latest thinking?
> Rance Velapoldi
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22112 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/28/2002
Subject: Re: Happy T-Day !
Don't gobble to much, turkey!

Happy Thanksgiving!

Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: David Dewey
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 11:32 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Happy T-Day !


Happy Thanksgiving to all!
S'
David Dewey


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22113 From: Ted Larson Date: 11/28/2002
Subject: Mainline Modeler
The July 2002 Mainline Modeler has several articles of interest to S
scale modelers.

- Wisconsin Station - EXCELLENT article on scratch building a small
railroad station. Has many good structure scratchbuilding techniques.
Especially interesting is the recommendation to use Delta Ceramcoat paint
due ease of use, wide variety of colors, water clean-up, and low price.

- Pullman Standard 60' Auto Parts Car - Large scale production of these
started in 1965, early enough to be of interest to many S scale modelers.

- Lightweight Module - Many good suggestions applicable to S-MOD module
construction.

- Detailing Diecast Models - Many good techniques applicable to detailing
AF steam engines.

- Milwaukee Road GP35's - Info for detailing the AM GP-35 for the
Milwaukee Road

Ted Larson
Buy American,
The job you save may be your neighbors!

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22114 From: afjeff_56 Date: 11/28/2002
Subject: Turkey Day!!!
Happy Thanksgiving!!!
Keep on S Gauging>>>>>>>>
<afjeff56> S......
Group: S-Trains Message: 22115 From: Mark Preman Date: 11/29/2002
Subject: Reproduction Reproducers Are In!
The long awaited reproduction of the Gilbert talking
station speaker/needle assembly, commonly referred to
as the "reproducer", is in. I have 100 in stock at $45
each, including delivery in the USA. Mark
http://www.americanflyertrains.com

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22116 From: William Porter Date: 11/29/2002
Subject: Test Message
Test due to brainwashing of computer - I should have tried it on myself :-)

Bill Porter


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22117 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 11/29/2002
Subject: Stocking Stuffer
If you're still dropping hints about what you'd like for Christmas, here's something you might consider asking for. Several years ago, my wife gave me an "ultra-microfiber" cleaning cloth, and I'll guarantee that it's the ultimate in spiffing up old Flyer stuff.

The particular product I have is called TRASAN, but there may be other microfiber products which work as well (info at www.trasan.com). Mine looks like an ordinary green shop towel except that it has a feeling like velour. (I have absolutely no connection with the company or any of its distributors, but I'm sold on this product.)

We all know the story in the collectable toy train market: appearance is practically everything. We've all noticed the mars, paint splatters, and ancient greasy spots on an otherwise nice piece, and we've downgraded the value of the piece because of them. Although we've cleaned with water and mild soap, we can't remove the stains and mars with solvents or wire brushes without damaging the finish�until now.

I used my cloth to clean ancient black crayon off of a green crackle roof, to remove red paint from the orange sides of a 947 NP boxcar (it looked like it had bounced around in a box with something red), to remove ancient greasy fingerprints, and to polish enamel-painted surfaces which were showing wear. All of these pieces now shine, and have improved their condition a full grade. I even tried the cloth on some light rust on the bottom of a sheet-metal chassis, and it was clean in a few seconds.

I don't want to mislead you�you'll have to use some elbow grease on stubborn stains such as the crayon on the crackle roof. Be patient, keep rubbing away (checking frequently to be sure you're not removing the original finish), and you'll have good results.

The secret is in the fiber, which is a blend of polyester and nylon. We are cautioned to use no cleaners or chemicals, and to allow the "ultra-microfibers" to collect and absorb the offending particles and dirt using hot water only. It works! After some particularly strenuous uses, I noticed that my cloth had picked up a faint coloring of pigment from some of my models along with the stain, but you'd never know it from looking at the original paint. If anything, it will make the rest of the paint look somewhat dingy, so I lightly rub the rest of the piece to make it shine. When the cloth looks dirty, just throw it in the wash (detergent only, no bleach or fabric softener).

The cloths aren't cheap (at least mine wasn't), but it's more than paid for itself by enabling me to upgrade the condition of my old AF pieces. Again, I have no connection with anyone selling these products, but I thought I'd pass the word about what I consider to be a winner.

YourS,
John Eichmann
RMHR
Boise


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22118 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 11/29/2002
Subject: S-Video Vol. VI...OOPS
The first shipment of "S-Gauge Model Railroading" Volume, VI has been sent.
We only have 5 copies left.  The lab is going to print us some more the first

week of January.

OOPS, let's make that the first week in December...Sorry.....Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22119 From: Mark Preman Date: 11/29/2002
Subject: American Flyer trains For sale
The new list is posted at:
http://www.americanflyertrains.com

Ho Ho Ho !

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22120 From: Peter Ervin Date: 11/29/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1662
Rance Velapoldi wants to know the ideal height for benchwork. I don't
presently have a layout, but when I build one I need to think about my back
and neck as much as anything else. I'm planning on first building a "body
caddy" for lack of a better term which will be a padded board with chair
casters for wheels and an adjustable "inverted V" shaped paddled
upright. I'll be able to sit on the board and lean against the upright
while pushing myself around under the benchwork. The angle between the
board and the upright will be adjustable so I can change it according to my
needs and when 1 position starts to bother my back or neck. I'll also rig
up a light source, perhaps that Black & Decker one with the long flexible
neck that can be twisted into a position and it will stay there. All I'll
need after that is a beer holder.

Peter Ervin
Group: S-Trains Message: 22121 From: Roy Inman Date: 11/29/2002
Subject: CTT layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 22122 From: Jim Armstrong Date: 11/29/2002
Subject: Set box packing scheme for 4904T set
Can anyone describe how the parts of the 4904T set with 282 loco are
packed in the set box? I have a very nice set with all the parts, and
the original set box, and would like to pack it like the original. Also,
are the transformers (a No. 2 in this case) always packed separately?
Jim Armstrong
Group: S-Trains Message: 22123 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/29/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1662
You could also try a mechanic's creeper.

Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Ervin
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1662


Rance Velapoldi wants to know the ideal height for benchwork. I don't
presently have a layout, but when I build one I need to think about my back
and neck as much as anything else. I'm planning on first building a "body
caddy" for lack of a better term which will be a padded board with chair
casters for wheels and an adjustable "inverted V" shaped paddled
upright. I'll be able to sit on the board and lean against the upright
while pushing myself around under the benchwork. The angle between the
board and the upright will be adjustable so I can change it according to my
needs and when 1 position starts to bother my back or neck. I'll also rig
up a light source, perhaps that Black & Decker one with the long flexible
neck that can be twisted into a position and it will stay there. All I'll
need after that is a beer holder.

Peter Ervin



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22124 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 11/29/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, December 1, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page http://s-scale.org/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 22125 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: K-Line RTR
Hi
Just stopped by Hobby Lobby. K-Line is selling 50
year old Marks trains to somoeone. Why sell new S
when you can sell junk.

Jim Sleeth

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22126 From: castironv8@aol.com Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Height
Hello Rance, et al

RE: Height

I made my bench work out of good old 2x4 dimensional lumber and 1/2 exterior
grade plywood. The platform height is 36" from the floor. This allow me a
good working height and the ability to sit on the floor under the table to
work underneath. I would imagine that taller folks would make theirs higher
for both the "leaning over" and working underneath (I am 5'11"). I like the
suggestion of some of the other contributors who suggested using a dolly or a
mechanics creeper to roll around underneath. I did this when my old layout
was on a concrete floor, but small wheels don't roll too nicely on carpet,
which is what my layout sits on today.

A lesson learned though:

My layout is roughly in the shape of an "L" using just shy of 4 sheets of
4'x8' plywood and all original Gilbert trackage with Gilbert and reproduction
rubber roadbed. If I derail back in the corner next to the wall (a
plausible and often experienced thing with a 6 year old in control) it is a
real "pain" to climb up on the benchwork to fix things. In a nutshell, It is
best if you have the ability to reach out, at arm's length, to every point on
the layout where accidents might occur. I am considering adding a trap door
so that I can climb out to get at things. If I did it over again, I would
modify the benchwork or the position in the room to allow arm's length
access. This may come to pass!

It sounds like you have a very interesting and aggressive plan in mind. Good
luck!!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22127 From: John Swinderman Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Buying New Track
If you were starting fresh with new track for a mixed consist of older AF and
later S scale what kind would you recommend?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22128 From: John Swinderman Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Buying New Track
If you were starting fresh with new track for a mixed consist of older AF and
later S scale what kind would you recommend?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22129 From: Walt Danylak Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: K-Line Big Boy
Group,

Has anyone seen the K-Line Big Boy that is reported to be built to
1/64 scale (S gauge) according to the review in the January issue of
CTT? I sent K-Line an email asking if they had any plans to offer the
Big Boy as a complete S gauge locomotive. If I recieve a reply, I'll
post it.

To convert one to S gauge looks like a far amount of work. Judging
from the photos in CTT, the front end looks like it would need at
least a new steam chest. Again from the photos, the steam chest
appears to near HO size. On the plus side if the model is designed to
go around O-31 curves (15.5" radius) it should have no trouble with
AF curves (19" radius) except for the overhang of the boiler.

Any comments?

Walt Danylak
Group: S-Trains Message: 22130 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Re: Height
Now you guys know why I am going to a 24" wide round the wall layout...I can
reach what I want..And I can reach my shelves which mount above the layout
for displays.My present 4'-4" x 8'-0" layout has wheels on it so I can pull
it out frrom the wall as needed....I also saw an article about using 1x4's
with 2x wood doors for a top...Could be too noisy...Also just getting up and
down on a creeper it too much work....why not consider my wiring idea I
posted earlier....Bob Conner
Group: S-Trains Message: 22131 From: seg60133 Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Leventon
Is there a new web address for Leventon's Hobby Supply? The link on
Yorke's site doesn't work, and Leventon's hasn't advertised in the S
Gaugian for at least the past 3 issues. Is he still in business?
Thanks.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22132 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Anther "S" Discussion on the OGR forum
Here is another new "S" discussion on the OGR fourm.

http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=63160042&f=57660482&m=8106059371

Getting interesting.

Carl
Group: S-Trains Message: 22133 From: eric.reis Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Re: Leventon
Rons website is: ( I checked it out and it is working.)


http://www.americanflyerparts.com


eric reis
Kenmore, Wa

-----Original Message-----
From: seg60133 [mailto:seg@...]
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 10:26 AM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Leventon

Is there a new web address for Leventon's Hobby Supply? The link on
Yorke's site doesn't work, and Leventon's hasn't advertised in the S
Gaugian for at least the past 3 issues. Is he still in business?
Thanks.


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Group: S-Trains Message: 22134 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Re: Buying New Track
John:
Do you mean that you are running AF as well as scale equipment, or later
s-gauge hi-rail??
Rance Velapoldi

John Swinderman wrote:

>If you were starting fresh with new track for a mixed consist of older AF and
>later S scale what kind would you recommend?
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22135 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Re: Buying New Track
Assuming you mean AF and hirail I'd use either AM code 149 or SHS code
125 system. If you mean scale and AF then you need either track with BK
closing frog turnouts of the same rail height. One proviso- I'd ask
both SHS and AM when their scale compatible switches are due out.

John Swinderman wrote:
>
> If you were starting fresh with new track for a mixed consist of older AF and
> later S scale what kind would you recommend?
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 22136 From: robert allen conner Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line Big Boy
Yes ....I have seen A couple...while there was no flyer near to compare...I
felt they were just A little larger than 1/64...Its just A feeling you
get...they are big...I have thought about it....you could replace the
drivers with flyer ones for insulation....grind down the frame slightly from
both sides...cut the steam chests down at the center....weld together
someway..redrill new holes..replace tender trucks about the same way and rig
flyer type pickups....Remember this has been done, in reverse, with 0n 30
stuff....Bob Conner
Group: S-Trains Message: 22137 From: Tim Brown Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Train Table Height
Hi,

It may be possible to design a front console panel all along the front of the tables. It could have long hinged lids and would hide all the wiring, yet permit easy access without removing a trim strip that has been nailed or screwed on to the front. This would take some decent finished carpentry work to pull off, but might be worth it.

Tim Brown

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22138 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Caig
Hey boyz:
Remember back a few months when we put in that order for Caig M260Cp
Cramolin paste? No? Where were you???

36 of you got a jar of the stuff and now the boyz on the TCA toytrains list
are having a go at it. I've gotten checks from 26 of them so far and it
looks like another big order. Some of you missed the train last time and
might like a second shot. Others of you have used the stuff to poison
in-laws and may be fresh out! So, if you'd like a jar, $25 ought to do it,
in a check or money order, made out to me,

Chris Zizzo
85 Scudder Place
Northport, NY 11768-3026

If you would like to know more about this product, go to www.caig.com .
Here is a recent post from the toytrains list to explain the basics to
anyone who has no clue what I'm rambling about.
_____________________________________

Repost from toytrains@yahoogroups.com
_____________________________________

Recently, I brought to a halt all the S-Trains list discussion on Wahl's
Clipper Oil and other cleaning and lubricating remedies by challenging
everyone to try Caig Labs Cramolin Paste (now called M260Cp). This is a
conductive lubricant INTENDED for commutators and other moving contacts. It
improves contact, lengthens life, reduces ozone, eliminates most sparking
and, in general, is a panacea for whatever ails your trains electrically.
Use it on e-units, transformer wipers, track surfaces, wheels, bearings that
conduct electrically, live catenary and pantographs, you name it.

So the boys on the S-list called my bluff and I ended up ordering about 36
jars of the stuff from Caig. They were very nice and included paperwork and
a note on use for trains. They put in a sample of their De-Oxit 5 cleaner
for everybody and I wrote up something and included it. It was shipped to
me in bulk and I Priority Mailed it out to everyone who sent me a check.
After all costs, $25 per unit was the final price. For my troubles, I got a
free jar. I hardly need it, since the original tin I got in 1961 is only
half empty, and I use on everything! (It flavors soups nicely.) The
original instructions call for a "Vapor Thin" coating.

If youse guys want to do something similar, I will contact the nice lady I
dealt with at Caig and see if the price is still the same. If so, let's do
it. I'm game. Just stop using oils and volatiles on electrical contacts.
Alcohol should NEVER be applied to a running commutator. It could flash
over to any you spilled or which is still on the applicator and start a fire
that would peel your skin off. Oil will ruin the insulation between
commutator segments and destroy the motor. It can also flash and burn.

Let me know if you want to try this. Go to www.caig.com to see their
products. Remember, our best product is M-260Cp. The site has a lot of
stuff. The De-Oxit 5 would be an excellent contact cleaner, but so is
isopropyl alcohol (applied with the power OFF!). The Cramolin will improve
your railroad like it does the prototypes.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 22139 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/30/2002
Subject: Re: Train Table Height
On my layout I have the wiring running along the front edge suspended
from hooks wherever possible. For access I simply lift the cloth skirt
and work on it. This works well because over all of my 8' x 25' layout
no wiring is ever more than 2' away from an edge. This works because I
have 2' wide operating pits. Several sections are 2' wide. Pieces that
are 4' wide are wired within 2' of an outboard or pit edge.

Tim Brown wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> It may be possible to design a front console panel all along the front of the tables. It could have long hinged lids and would hide all the wiring, yet permit easy access without removing a trim strip that has been nailed or screwed on to the front. This would take some decent finished carpentry work to pull off, but might be worth it.
>
> Tim Brown
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 22140 From: Ted Larson Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: FLAT
FLAT!

What a simple yet elusive word. A few months back I rebuilt several
S-MOD modules and also built a new one. Now that outdoor activity is
slowed down, I started installing sub-roadbed this weekend. Yah,
started. Thought I would get that done in a short morning and start
laying roadbed, maybe even get some ties down. Instead I found that all
that nice straight wood that I had framed with had mysteriously produced
non-flat module tops! Several hours of shimming, planing, and sanding
later, I'm half done!

Purpose of this message, when building modules or benchwork, double check
your flatness at each stage. I discovered an amazing number of locations
where flatness was elusive. In one case, two sheets of plywood that I
used for the module top were of different thickness! In others, it
appears that the wood bowed a bit. Seems there is simply NO ROOM for
assumptions; gotta double check everything to avoid nasty surprises.
Things gotta be level all the way up to have the railheads flat and
parallel so that the wheelsets track and the couplers stay coupled.

This is probably "old hat" to many people, but I have built several
modules without this surprise, so just sharing the caution with anybody
thinking of starting some modules or benchwork.

Progress on MHRR eastern division is going a bit slower than planned!

Ted Larson

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22141 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Re: Caig
I've had some questions about jar size and price. I posted this data back
in March and June, but I should have repeated it this time.

It's an 8 oz jar: @$18.95 each for a case of twelve, then shipping to me in
bulk, then priority mail out to you. $25 just about covers it. Actually,
about $24.50.

I make 50 to 60 cents for my trouble. Last time, that translated into a
free jar for me. It probably will again and I will sell the jar since I
have enough to last me. It is shaping up to be another 36 jar order. I
have 26 checks now. I can go ahead with it once I have 34 confirmed (check
in hand). That ought to happen by the end of this week.

Search the S-Trains archives for "Sparking" and for "Caig". That ought to
bring you up to speed on all the posts that happened earlier this year on
the subject. I'm sure I'm leaving something out, but we covered the ground
well back then.

Once you have this stuff, you can use your Wahl Clipper Oil to oil your Wahl
clipper, which is what it was designed to do. Your trains will thank you.

Send $25 check made out to:
Chris Zizzo
85 Scudder Place
Northport, NY 11768-3026

Chris Z.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22142 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Caig bonus
But Wait!!!!!
If you order now, you get this FREE bonus!!!!!

When my wife and I tried to have a baby
some years back we injected an awful lot of hormones into her backside. We
never got lucky and I am finally dumping the drugs (worth thousands, but
outdated). I also have a ton of hypodermic syringes (brand new in wrap)
that make excellent oilers and smoke fluid applicators. If you guys want
one, I will enclose one in each package. Just cut off the needle point with
a wire cutter and voila! Don't try to use the syringe with the paste!!!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 22143 From: trzp1800 Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Re: Buying New Track
Dear John:
You should really try and hold some of the track in your hands before
you make a large purchase. That will give you the best input as to
what you want to see on your layout. Also, the advice about scale
wheel/turnout compatibility will be a big determinant. What "look"
you are after with your layout is the other biggie? Is it supposed to
look like a toy train or do you want to pretend it's real? A friend
of mine ordered the minimum amount of about five different types of
track. In the end i think he's decided to use gargraves stainless
steel where it won't show, and low maintenance is a plus, and two
other manufacturer's track depending on whether he wants a "well
maintained main line look" or a variable tie width and spacing
yard/siding look. All of the preceding is of course in the eye of the
beholder. Just ask a scaler about hand laid track and turnouts!

The NASG "This is S Gauge" brochure has a nice picture of five track
options on it's back page. Remember, it's your layout, there is no
right or wrong. It's just for fun!

Regards,
Ted
Group: S-Trains Message: 22144 From: Neimanis,V. [NCR] Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Re: Bench Height
The bench I have built is at 40 inches off the floor and built with 2x6
support lumber.

This height seems to be a good viewing height from the spectators who sit on
swivel on bar stools. To help me with all the wiring, I use 2 garage
creepers. One for me and one for my suite of tools and wires which I need.

V.Neimanis
Ottawa, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 22145 From: David Dewey Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Re: FLAT
Ah Ted,
You have discovered the joys of working with modern "pond-dried" lumber!
Whoever thought plywood can't warp because of the alternating layers with
grain orientation, WUZ WRONG!!
Going to the lumber store is, for me, a very frustrating experience.
They're selling wood that, in the old days, would have been sent to the
chipper or to the tepee burner to make more steam to cut good lumber! Used
to be #1 meant clear grain, kiln dried; now it is some formula of a
"limited" number of knots per foot! AAUGH!!
S'
David D.
(Who remembers in the old days, if "Mother Mc Cloud" found you walking on
the cut lumber, you were fired--on the spot!)
Group: S-Trains Message: 22146 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Re: Caig
Good point, Ted. Let's hear what the consumer has to say. I haven't gotten
much feedback.
Chris Zizzo


----- Original Message -----
From: "trzp1800" <trzp1800@...>
To: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: Caig bonus


> Hi all:
> What say you owners of this miracle product now that you've owned it
> 6 months? Let's hear a few testimonials from the 35 initiates.
>
> Thanks,
> Ted
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22147 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Microfiber Cloths
Thanks for the tip, John. I went to www.trasan.com and added it to my
Favorites so I can get back there again. I have been looking for these
cloths.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 22148 From: David Dewey Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Re: Caig--A Testemonial
Gather 'round Brethern, I have seen the light!! And it is Caig products!!
This stuff does work miracles!
I use it on contacts, including transformer wipers, commutators, reverse
unit drums, and automobile window switches (you know, the ones that work
sparadocally!--not anymore!). And like that old faithful, Burma Shave, a jar
lasts a looooong time! I can't even really see any dent I've made into mine
yet! I use a toothpick most of the time to apply it, it takes that little!
It not only cuts down on arcing, it is designed to help prevent furthur
corrosion. This ain't no snake oil, although the claim make sound like one!
It's the REAL STUFF!!
Gee, I shouldn't be telling you all this, I won't have any trains to repair
if you all get some. . .
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22149 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Re: Caig--A Testemonial
David,

If this is an electrically-conductive grease, then applying it on the commutator would cause arcing from one segment to the other(s), wouldn't it? What if it gets in the slots? On the reverse unit, wouldn't it again cause arcing between the strips? Hmmm. I just ran downstairs and stuck both probes of a continuity tester into the grease and it is not conductive. If it is not conductive, how does it promote conductivity? I'm confused over the proper use of this product. Maybe I've been overlooking it out of misunderstanding. Can you clear this up?

Thanks,
Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: David Dewey
To: trzp1800 ; Chris Zizzo
Cc: slist
Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 4:13 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Caig--A Testemonial


Gather 'round Brethern, I have seen the light!! And it is Caig products!!
This stuff does work miracles!
I use it on contacts, including transformer wipers, commutators, reverse
unit drums, and automobile window switches (you know, the ones that work
sparadocally!--not anymore!). And like that old faithful, Burma Shave, a jar
lasts a looooong time! I can't even really see any dent I've made into mine
yet! I use a toothpick most of the time to apply it, it takes that little!
It not only cuts down on arcing, it is designed to help prevent furthur
corrosion. This ain't no snake oil, although the claim make sound like one!
It's the REAL STUFF!!
Gee, I shouldn't be telling you all this, I won't have any trains to repair
if you all get some. . .
S'
David D.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22150 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, December 1, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page http://s-scale.org/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 22151 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Re: Caig--A Testemonial
Tim:

You are taking this a little too literally. Cramolin paste supports
conductivity without being conductive itself. If it were conductive, it
would cause short circuits and create capacitive environments. It does not.
It improves conductivity where actual conductive contact is made. I almost
said "metallic" conductive contact, but I remember using it on WABC's Studio
8A audio control board which had developed noise in it's conductive plastic
potentiometers. We applied Cramolin one time in the 1980's. Those pots are
still quiet.

I understand your trepidation, even your skepticism, but when you've got a
panacea, you've got a panacea.

It is a lubricant. It will affect slippage on grades. What can I tell you?
You cannot operate your trains upside-down with the track nailed to the
ceiling. Cramolin paste cannot help there.

It can help with sporadic reverse units and with poor switch contacts and
transformer wipers and commutators and any moving electrical contact.
Switches, relays, potentiometers, contactors, wipers, you name it. Try it
in a wider theater. You've got problems and here is a solution. Use it!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 22152 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: MMT/Rusti/Downs Trains
I met up with Marlon from Manheim Machine and Tool at York and bought a Rich
Food tanker and 4 more cars for my TankTrain set. He just called me to let
me know that my cars are ready and he is shipping them. The $50 TT cars
have become $70 because of cost increases but they are still as beautiful as
ever and it is amazing that they are.

If you are not aware, Marlon bought the company from Russ Downs about 2
years ago. He was running a large machine shop at the time and was
employing people to fill big contracts. He had a sudden and disastrous
health downturn, and like most entrepreneurs, was a hands-on boss whose
business was synonymous with him. When he went down, no one could keep the
contracts up. He lost the machine shop and damn near lost the train
business.

Now, his entire focus is on the trains. Marlon's health is improved, though
his ongoing medical bills are enormous. But this is not a charity case.
No one is asking for a handout. This man makes beautiful S-gauge trains,
but he is a little guy with a handful of devoted followers, and I, for one,
don't intend to lose him. S-gauge needs MMT tankers. And the problem is,
if we don't start buying them soon, to get this small manufacturer over a
hump, then they won't be there when it's more convenient for us to lay out
some money for new cars.

It would only take the purchase of one car by each of us to make a gigantic
difference. There are 600 of us lurking around here. Man, 600 cars @ $70 =
$42,000. We are all going to buy lots of cars this year. Here is one
purchase that is an investment in the future of our gauge. Let's do it!

Write or call for his 2002 catalog. It has pictures (B&W):
MMT Model Railroad
311 South Broad Street
Lititz, Pennsylvania 17543
(717) 627-3980 (Voice & Fax)
e-mail mmttrains@...

Swamp him with mail, then with orders. Help keep S-Gauge alive and well.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 22153 From: David Dewey Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Re: Caig--A Testemonial--and a question!
TIM
I worried about those things too, so I tested it on some of my own stuff.
WOW!! it is amazing. I believe by putting it on transformer wipers, I will
reduce wear and extend their lives a LOT longer. Considering that
transformers are going to become harder and harder to find as time goes on,
that's a really good thing IMHO.
I do have one question, though: would this be good on carbon rollers?
S'
David D.
PS I just used some to save my Mazda's door window switch--a dealer-only
item! It works great now!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22154 From: Robert Jackson Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] FLAT
Ted Larson wrote:

> FLAT!
>
> What a simple yet elusive word.

Ain't nuthin' elusive about FLAT! It describes my wallet, my bank account,
and my affect about this time of year.
Bob Jackson
Group: S-Trains Message: 22155 From: rxman46321@aol.com Date: 12/1/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1664
The Big Boy's steam chests are attached to the front gear cover box. Both
cover boxes need to be narrowed as there is not much play on the back
drivers. Then who knows what's inside.

I measured the drivers, they scaled out at 75 inches in S but like a dummy I
forgot about measuring the tender width and when I remembered it had be sold.

Looks like a lot of work and definitely for an experienced person

It did look nice and really didn't seem to be too much over S gauge.

John Griffin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22156 From: jahoozdumm Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: That time again...
It's the last day of Thanksgiving weekend, which means it's also time
for Christmas layouts. The plan for today was to get a visiting
friend to help me haul our 4' x 6'10" layout board from the garage to
the living room. (I can't move the 100+ lb. thing by myself.) That
event did take place, but not before we all went to lunch, and then
scoured a few hobby and toy stores for "1/64th scale" (more or less)
radio control cars. After looking over several brands our friend and
his wife-unit decided on the Microsizers label. (My wife-unit and I
have each bought one car for each other, but we're not supposed to
know about it until Dec. 25. It's complicated.)

But this post is about trains. S trains. S Christmas layouts. It's
good to see that big old board back in the living room. The cat seem
to like it as well. Track and electricals are all permanently
attached, but it will still take a couple of days to get all the
various pieces-parts unpacked and in place. That is, if we go slowly
and "savor" the experience. Funny thing, after last Christmas we
waited 'til July to take the thing down. I figured there would be no
big rush to get it going this year, but the wife has been hinting
about it since September. Gotta love a woman like that.

So, has anyone else chosen Thanksgiving weekend to set up their annual
holiday layout? Posted any new pix? What say y'all?


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22157 From: Walt Danylak Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line Big Boy
Thanks for the replies I received regarding the Big Boy. Many seem to
think that the locomotive is not build to 1/64 scale but to some
slightly larger scale (1/5X). Maybe the easiest and fastest way to
determine its size would be to place it next to a Sunset S scale Big
Boy that was imported in brass in the late 80's. This should answer
any questions as to its size.

I received a reply from K-Line. Standard answer #27. I'll forward the
reply to the group.

Walt
Group: S-Trains Message: 22158 From: Pat O'Sullivan Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: American Flyer Items for Sale
Dear S-Trains Group Members,

As a result of reorganizing my garage, I'd like to sell some American Flyer train items. Please find a list of these items below.

Regards,

Patrick O'Sullivan

(760) 940-8355


Index

Category

Sub-Category

Description

Qty.

1

Transformer.

Single control, small.

American Flyer, No. 1 1/2B

1

2

Transformer.

Dual control, large.

Lionel, Type-KW.

1

3

Locomotive.

Diesel.

Santa Fe.

1

4

Locomotive.

Diesel.

New Haven.

1

5

Locomotive.

Steam.

American Flyer Lines, w/attached coal tender, w/spare shell.

1

6

Rail car.

Passenger.

American Flyer Lines, Jefferson, 961.

1

7

Rail car.

Passenger w/freight.

American Flyer Lines, Jefferson, 960.

1

8

Rail car.

Passenger w/observation level.

American Flyer Lines, Hamilton 962.

1

9

Rail car.

Passenger, end car.

American Flyer Lines, Washington 963.

1

10

Rail car.

Mail w/remote pick up.

Railway Express Agency, New Haven.

1

11

Rail car.

Caboose.

American Flyer Lines, 979.

1

12

Rail car.

Caboose.

American Flyer Lines, 638.

1

13

Rail car.

Flat, w/motorized rocket.

USAF.

1

14

Rail car.

Tanker.

Gulf, 625G.

1

15

Rail car.

Box car.

Illinois Central, 623.

1

16

Rail car.

Open freight.

Frisco, 641.

1

17

Track.

Curved, 10".

71

18

Track.

Curved, short lengths.

7

19

Track.

Straight, 10".

26

20

Track.

Straight, short lengths.

15

21

Track, accessory.

Fixed 4 port 90 degree cross.

2

22

Track, accessory.

Raised road crossing.

1

23

Track, accessory.

Switch, 3 port, right.

2

24

Track, accessory.

Switch, 3 port, left.

2

25

Track, accessory.

Track trip.

American Flyer 26671.

1

26

Track, accessory.

Track terminal.

American Flyer 707.

3?

27

Track, accessory.

Assorted.

9

28

Prop., static.

Billboard.

2

29

Prop., static.

Billboard w/diesel horn.

1

30

Prop., static.

Garage.

1

31

Prop., static.

Rail road crossing w/lights.

1

32

Prop., static.

Citizens.

Plasticville 1619, in original box.

1

33

Prop., static.

Church.

Plasticville 1600, in original box.

1

34

Prop., static.

Factory.

Plasticville 1906, in original box.

1

35

Prop., static.

Automobile.

Plastic.

3

36

Switch control.

Dual lever.

American Flyer. (Levers missing).

1

37

Switch control.

Dual lever w/lights.

American Flyer.

1

38

Switch control.

One button.

American Flyer, mail pickup.

1

39

Switch control.

Two button.

American Flyer, cow on track.

1

40

Switch control.

One button.

American Flyer, uncoupler.

1

41

Misc., cow.

Remotely controlled.

American Flyer.

1

42

Misc., trestle set.

Track supports.

18 pieces in set.

1

43

Misc., crossing guard.

Remotely controlled.

(Roof missing).

1




---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22159 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: New link to LVM Oil Depot Photos
Hello Group,

I posted several photos of my LVM oil depot that I modified to
include four Lionel vertical storage tanks to the photo gallery last
week. Unfortunately the link I gave in the post to this group was
broken and caused trouble for some. If you would like to view the
photos, try:

http://66.111.44.40/~pyorke/albums/

then navigate to Model Trains > Photos From Our S
Friends > Bull Gator

The photos also include several 1/64 scale AHL oil trucks and my 322
steam engine.

Sorry for any inconvenience the broken link may have caused.

BG1
Group: S-Trains Message: 22160 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: Caig Follow-Up
I was worried that there might have been a price increase on Cramolin paste,
so I begged a little. I just got this response:
_________________________________________
Hi Chris:

It looks as though we will be able to provide the same pricing for this
order.

Happy Holidays!

Susan
_________________________________________

Whew!

I've got 30 checks so far. The names follow. If you are not on this list
and you want in, send the check right away. I'm going to close this this
week.

Send $25 made out to:
Chris Zizzo
85 Scudder Pl.
Northport, NY 11768-3026

Join these guys and gals:

Scott A. Adams
Malcolm R. Berger
Robert M. Blackson
Barry H. Bley
Roy K. Bock
Donald F. Brace
Foster B. Cooper III
Gerald M. Dzara
Paul M. Finerty
Alfred T. Galli
James G. Herdt
Raymond M. Hobin
Barbara A. Jones
Ken Keki
Chad C. Kono
Joseph F. Korczynski, Jr.
Joseph H. Lechner
James J. Lott
Patrick A. Maher
Michael J. Maloney
Lester H. Mathis
Alan F. Nash
James J. Nicholson
Stephen L. Radakovits
Donald E. Rodems
Art Shifrin
Arthur Shor
Christopher Uchrin
Raymond E. Zawislak
Paul S. Zelinger

Thanx,
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 22161 From: Ted Larson Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: loco amps
At train shows, I like to run 3-5 AM or SHS units lashed together. We
use an AF transformer running through a 5 amp bridge rectifier, so no
shortage of power, however since the AF xfmrs don't kick in until about 7
volts, starts are a bit jerky. I would like to get a conventional DC
power supply that starts at 0 volts. Does anybody know how many amps or
VA I need for AM (or SHS) diesels?

S-trains guys, please cc: me directly.

Thanks, Ted Larson



________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22162 From: Peter Ervin Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: Recommended switches for scale and hi-rail
After 5 or 6 years of collecting S gauge trains, I'm about ready to start
building a layout. I have all AF except for the American Models B&O
Pacific passenger set in scale. Are there any AF switches that will handle
the AF and AM equally well? If not, are there any new switches made that
accomplish this?

Thanks,

Peter Ervin
Group: S-Trains Message: 22163 From: Lance McCold Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: S-scale car layout?!
Now Mark has something really different than I have ever heard of.

Imagine a car AND train layout with scenery and both the trains and the cars operating.

This could take model railroading to a whole new level.

Lance McCold
Knoxville, Tennessee

>Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 00:31:15 EST
> From: markstoybox2001@...
>Subject: hello to all, and new members! and wellcome!!
>
>just to give you a little back ground, my name is mark (duh) ive been
>building customs in 1/64 scale since i was 5, i have never been happy with
>just leaving a stock production diecast alone. there is always something you
>can do to make it better. as little as painting the head lights, blinkers,
>and grill can really change the way a piece can look. i say start small and
>work your way up. dont run out and start cutting up $25.00 speccast trucks
>right out the chute. i "mess" with almost all of my diecast. i will cut up
>2-3 trucks and build 1 custom out of it. i sell a few of my customs to help
>me buy more stuff for my layout. if my prices seem a little up there, just do
>the math: average truck is $3-$5 if i need 2 or 3 of them, plus my time to
>build it...well it doesn't take long to add up. if you haven't already please
>join the yahoo group : <A HREF="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MARKSTOYBOX">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MARKSTOYBOX</A>
>
>and share ideas, and pictures of your layout and diecast. a few of us do have
>trains on our layout so train pictures are cool too.
>
> as for layouts, my first layout was on a poker table in my bed room,
>with cooking flour as snow (moms idea) now its over 125 square foot in a 20
>foot x 20 foot room. and we have operating sessions like model railroaders
>(we play cars!) we have houses, cars and most of us build a business to run.
>but most of the time we just drive around the layout. i have made the roads
>wide enough and the corner radius big enough to drive a 53 foot speccast semi
>around with out hitting anything. if your interested in seeing more of my
>collection i would offer to you a copy of my magazine "MARKSTOYBOX" the CD
>ROM based web zine. a copy go's for $2.50 with shipping per 50 megabytes of
>pictures and video. most are of the 1/64 collection from our members, as well
>as my layout and diecast. again welcome!
>
>thanks, your friend, mark
Group: S-Trains Message: 22164 From: Ted Larson Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: Re: loco amps
THANKS,
Ted

On Mon, 2 Dec 2002 20:01:14 -0500 Carl Tuveson writes:
> Each unit will normally never use more than an Amp each. Typically .7
> amps.
>
> Carl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ted Larson
> Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 6:32 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] loco amps
>
>
> At train shows, I like to run 3-5 AM or SHS units lashed together.
> We
> use an AF transformer running through a 5 amp bridge rectifier, so
> no
> shortage of power, however since the AF xfmrs don't kick in until
> about 7
> volts, starts are a bit jerky. I would like to get a conventional
> DC
> power supply that starts at 0 volts. Does anybody know how many
> amps or VA I need for AM (or SHS) diesels?
>
> S-trains guys, please cc: me directly.
>
> Thanks, Ted Larson
>

________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 22165 From: jnr59@aol.com Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: American Models 80' Streamline U.P. Coach Wanted buy/trade
Wanted: An American Models 80' Union Pacific Smoothside/Streamliner Coach.
Will buy or trade an American Models Southern Pacific Daylight 80' Smoothside
Coach new in box.

Please contact individually.

Jack Riely


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22166 From: Doug Peck Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: Re: MTH unpainted figure sets
For those who are still looking for them, we FINALLY received a shipment of
these bags of 120 unpainted MTH figures (which are really S scale). I think
we have about 6 bags of them left, and I've already re-ordered AGAIN!
(We also received the new MTH 774 Floodlight Towers (an AF 774 repro).
You'll find both items on our website, on the MTH page.)

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours - Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays: 2-5 PM (EST), and 7-9 PM.
Saturdays: 2-5 PM.
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please.)
Website: www.portlines.com
E-mail: doug@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 22167 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: Re: Recommended switches for scale and hi-rail
My AM Pacific handles all my AF switches well. The only caveat is I
found I needed to
(1) open up the trailing truck pivot hole a bit so it can have more
angular freedom while turning in order to follow switch parts when
backing up, because frog to rail match is crude on a Flyer switch,
and
(2) Make sure the switch is level with the entry and exit tracks (no
humps or dips).

Peter Ervin wrote:
>
> After 5 or 6 years of collecting S gauge trains, I'm about ready to start
> building a layout. I have all AF except for the American Models B&O
> Pacific passenger set in scale. Are there any AF switches that will handle
> the AF and AM equally well? If not, are there any new switches made that
> accomplish this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Peter Ervin
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 22168 From: Roy Inman Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: Re: S-scale car layout?!
I just noticed at my local HyVee grocery that the 1/64th (more or less)
operating R/C cars are $9.95. Similar to the Radio Shack/Hobby Shop versions
selling for $19.95-29.95.
How about pulling your 1/64th (more or less) scale car to the AF crossing,
Northern whizzes by, car streaks off across the tracks to meet the train on
the other side...
Roy Inman

> From: Lance McCold <lancemccold@...>
> Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 21:36:28 -0500
> To: S-Trains <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>, S-Scale Group
> <s-scale@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [S-Trains] S-scale car layout?!
>
> Now Mark has something really different than I have ever heard of.
>
> Imagine a car AND train layout with scenery and both the trains and the cars
> operating.
>
> This could take model railroading to a whole new level.
>
> Lance McCold
> Knoxville, Tennessee
>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 00:31:15 EST
>> From: markstoybox2001@...
>> Subject: hello to all, and new members! and wellcome!!
>>
>> just to give you a little back ground, my name is mark (duh) ive been
>> building customs in 1/64 scale since i was 5, i have never been happy with
>> just leaving a stock production diecast alone. there is always something you
>> can do to make it better. as little as painting the head lights, blinkers,
>> and grill can really change the way a piece can look. i say start small and
>> work your way up. dont run out and start cutting up $25.00 speccast trucks
>> right out the chute. i "mess" with almost all of my diecast. i will cut up
>> 2-3 trucks and build 1 custom out of it. i sell a few of my customs to help
>> me buy more stuff for my layout. if my prices seem a little up there, just do
>> the math: average truck is $3-$5 if i need 2 or 3 of them, plus my time to
>> build it...well it doesn't take long to add up. if you haven't already please
>> join the yahoo group : <A
>> HREF="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MARKSTOYBOX">http://groups.yahoo.com/grou
>> p/MARKSTOYBOX</A>
>>
>> and share ideas, and pictures of your layout and diecast. a few of us do have
>> trains on our layout so train pictures are cool too.
>>
>> as for layouts, my first layout was on a poker table in my bed room,
>> with cooking flour as snow (moms idea) now its over 125 square foot in a 20
>> foot x 20 foot room. and we have operating sessions like model railroaders
>> (we play cars!) we have houses, cars and most of us build a business to run.
>> but most of the time we just drive around the layout. i have made the roads
>> wide enough and the corner radius big enough to drive a 53 foot speccast semi
>> around with out hitting anything. if your interested in seeing more of my
>> collection i would offer to you a copy of my magazine "MARKSTOYBOX" the CD
>> ROM based web zine. a copy go's for $2.50 with shipping per 50 megabytes of
>> pictures and video. most are of the 1/64 collection from our members, as well
>> as my layout and diecast. again welcome!
>>
>> thanks, your friend, mark
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22169 From: Don Thompson Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: Re HallMark 1958 FL Duo-Glide Harley-Davidson Motorcyle
Has anyone seen these yet? I think they are similar to motorcycles
offered in past years. They seem to be the correct size and proportions
for S scale. The item number is 04346 and the cos was $7.95
Don

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
2002 Christmas Car, 2 & 3 bay PS-2s & Composite hoppers are now
shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/3bayps2_in_stock.html
http://www.showcaseline.com/2bayps2_in_stock.html
http://www.showcaseline.com/CompositeHoppers/compositehoppers.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 22170 From: eric.reis Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: Re: Re HallMark 1958 FL Duo-Glide Harley-Davidson Motorcyle
Go to the Hallmark site below and click on the cycle (actually there are 2
but the other is bigger) The lower message pops up along with an order
form.


http://www.hallmark.com/hmk/Website/AboutHallmark/fi_article_1.jsp?BV_Sessio
nID=@@@@1260190027.1038892164@@@@&BV_EngineID=jadcfkkejlmdbedcfchcgj.0&CONTE
NT_KEY=HARLEY_2002&CONTENT_TYPE=ARTICLE&fromPage=




1958 FL Duo-Glide(tm)
Miniature Harley-Davidson(r) Motorcycles. Fourth in the Series.
In 1958, Harley-Davidson added rear suspension to its Big Twin touring bike
and introduced "The Glad Ride, the Glide Ride." The unique color scheme on
this highly detailed ornament reflects an experimental treatment. Although
it was not offered as a production option in 1958, it does appear on a 1958
Duo-Glide in the company's archives.
Die-cast metal. Wheels turn. Measures 5/8" H x 1" W.
Sculpted by Don Palmiter.
Dated.
(c) 2002 H-D, All Rights Reserved. Manufactured by Hallmark under license
from Harley-Davidson Motor Company.
Find our entire Harley-Davidson gift collection at your local Hallmark Gold
Crown store.

Price: $7.95 plus delivery cost

That would make it about 40 inches high by 64 inches wide in 1/64 How big
was the real thing?


Eric Reis
In Dry, Sunny, Parched, Kenmore, Washington.



-----Original Message-----
From: Don Thompson [mailto:robin@...]
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 8:43 PM
To: S Scale group; S-Train; Showcaseline
Subject: [S-Trains] Re HallMark 1958 FL Duo-Glide Harley-Davidson Motorcyle

Has anyone seen these yet? I think they are similar to motorcycles
offered in past years. They seem to be the correct size and proportions
for S scale. The item number is 04346 and the cos was $7.95
Don

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
2002 Christmas Car, 2 & 3 bay PS-2s & Composite hoppers are now
shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/3bayps2_in_stock.html
http://www.showcaseline.com/2bayps2_in_stock.html
http://www.showcaseline.com/CompositeHoppers/compositehoppers.html



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All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22171 From: Dayna Warner Date: 12/2/2002
Subject: Hallmark/ 1954 Ford Pickup/ Pennsy
Picked up a really nice Pennsy ford put out by the Matchbox Collectibles
tonight at my local Hallmark store. 1:63 close enough for S scale. Nice
looking truck for anyone interested in Pennsy.
Dayna Warner CEO
Trainstuff LLC
www.trainstuffllc.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 22172 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/3/2002
Subject: Re: S-scale car layout?!
Lance said,,
**((Imagine a car AND train layout with scenery and both the trains and the cars operating.
This could take model railroading to a whole new level.))**

Yep! I've made several comments in the past on the ol' list here about diggin' out my
HO racing track set, and use it with my trains....maybe a drag strip, oval raceway,...or just a road or freeway!!


Rick.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22173 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/3/2002
Subject: Re: Re HallMark 1958 FL Duo-Glide Harley-Davidson Motorcyle
Subject: [S-Trains] Re HallMark 1958 FL Duo-Glide Harley-Davidson Motorcyle
**((( Has anyone seen these yet? I think they are similar to motorcycles
offered in past years. They seem to be the correct size and proportions
for S scale. The item number is 04346 and the cos was $7.95))***

Yep Don,..I posted about this a while back, offered an email pic for those that wanted to take a look.

Rick.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22174 From: Ingram-James4 Date: 12/3/2002
Subject: AF Atlantic Pnt-to-Pnt Display
SUBJECT: American Flyer Atlantic point to point operating display

This past weekend at a train show in Williamsport PA,
we operated an American Flyer Atlantic on a small display layout
that operated point to point.

The Atlantic is one of those modified by Chick's Hobby Shop (Gibbstown NJ)
with the DC can motor and slower-speed gearing.
Soundtraxx DCC sound decoder and speaker in the tender,
extra light on tender, flickering firebox led,
new tender floor w/8-wheel pickup using S-Helper caboose trucks,


A prehistoric 386 laptop computer controls the slowdown,
pause, and reversing at the end of the track,
plus controls the bell and whistle.

There is a photo and several MPEG videos of this display
in the Susquehanna S Gaugers eGroups 'files' area at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ssg-announce/files/021201-atlantic/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For further information on S gauge computer-operated displays,
visit the S-Helper website at
http://www.showcaseline.com/ ,
and look in the "Tips And Tricks" section for the last link titled
"Computer Controlled DCC S-Gauge".

- Jim Ingram
--
________________________________
James R. Ingram, Williamsport PA
Voice Mail 570-477-2520
<http://www.track2.com>
Power MacIntosh G3/266, OS 9.1
Group: S-Trains Message: 22175 From: Dayna Warner Date: 12/3/2002
Subject: Releases at show this weekend
We will be at the CT Eastern Railroad Museum Model Train Show this weekend at Windham High School in Willimantic, CT. All ready for the show will be the prototype S scale CN station and Livingstone Towers (cast iron front downtown structure). Am trying to get the Vollano Vistas ready but I will be gone for two days this week since one of my kid brothers is getting married so won't make any guarantee. I have heard from the master maker gnome and the masters for the Downtown Hotel that you S scale guys have been asking for are on there way to me now. I'll probably get them on Wednesday. I won't have enough time to get molds made and parts cast but they should be ready soon. Hope to see some of you at the show.
Dayna Warner CEO
Trainstuff LLC
www.trainstuffllc.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22176 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/3/2002
Subject: Photos of a new module
Take a look at this URL for photos of a newly scenicked module from the
RASG.
--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 22177 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/3/2002
Subject: Photos of a new module
Take a look at the URL: http://www.trainweb.org/rasg/layout/layout.html
for pictures of a module of the RASG layout.

Chuck Smith wrote:
>
> Take a look at this URL for photos of a newly scenicked module from the
> RASG.
> --
> Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
> and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
>
> "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
> than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
>
> To see or post Photos visit
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
> or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
> To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 22178 From: Mike Vana Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Pull mor tire bands
I know this is an S gauge list but I have an American Flyer
HO question that somebody here might be able to answer.
I need some Pull-Mor tire bands for an H-O 4-6-4. Does anybody
know of anybody who sells them?

It seems like the S gauge AF collectors are a lot more
visible than AF/Gilbert HO collectors, for whatever reason.

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22179 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Front pilot trucks
Hi,

A lot of people are digging out their vintage trains and setting up holiday displays. If you are having a problem with a steamer derailing frequently, one cause may be the front pilot truck. There should be a conical spring that forces the front pilot truck down onto the rails. Often this spring is missing, broken or badly worn. Replacement parts are available through our parts dealers. Replacement is a bit tedious, I think. I recommend removing the front pilot truck and winding the spring on carefully from one end until it seats perfectly. Hope this helps makes your holiday layout more enjoyable.

Tim Brown

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22180 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Re: Front pilot trucks
I find that not all Flyer front trucks came with a spring. Haven't
figured out yet how to tell if one is missing or was never there
originally. Anyone know?

Tim Brown wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> A lot of people are digging out their vintage trains and setting up holiday displays. If you are having a problem with a steamer derailing frequently, one cause may be the front pilot truck. There should be a conical spring that forces the front pilot truck down onto the rails. Often this spring is missing, broken or badly worn. Replacement parts are available through our parts dealers. Replacement is a bit tedious, I think. I recommend removing the front pilot truck and winding the spring on carefully from one end until it seats perfectly. Hope this helps makes your holiday layout more enjoyable.
>
> Tim Brown
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 22181 From: David Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Re: Front pilot trucks
In most cases the one that came with the spring also had a washer. If
you have a washer and no spring, your missing the spring. I've also
found that springs were used on earlier locos, and then ones with
cast pilot trucks only.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22182 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Re: Front pilot trucks
What made me suspicious was that I have a 290 with cast pilot and no
trace of a spring. It never derailed until after the wheel fell off and
I replaced it with an AM wheelset. Can't remember whether I replaced the
wheelset again but I recall I had to be sure the AF wheelset leads.

David wrote:
>
> In most cases the one that came with the spring also had a washer. If
> you have a washer and no spring, your missing the spring. I've also
> found that springs were used on earlier locos, and then ones with
> cast pilot trucks only.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 22183 From: David Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Re: Front pilot trucks
Chuck, I think you'll find that there is no washer on the 290 truck.
Basic locos with cast pilot trucks but the stamped Atlantic type
crosshead guide assembly did not get this added parts group of spring
and washer. The 293 may be an exception there I don't have one to
look at here. Cost savings for ACG I guess.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22184 From: rfgiardina Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Re: Pull mor tire bands
We make the Pull-Mor tires for all the "S" and the "HO" Gilbert
engines.

RFG

www.rfgco.com


--- In S-Trains@y..., Mike Vana <amflyer@r...> wrote:
> I know this is an S gauge list but I have an American Flyer
> HO question that somebody here might be able to answer.
> I need some Pull-Mor tire bands for an H-O 4-6-4. Does anybody
> know of anybody who sells them?
>
> It seems like the S gauge AF collectors are a lot more
> visible than AF/Gilbert HO collectors, for whatever reason.
>
> Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22185 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Re: Front pilot trucks
Hi,

I believe a given vintage Flyer steamer will track better with a front pilot spring, whether it originally had one or not. Of course, adding one would not be "stock", so a "purist" must take that into consideration.

Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Smith
To: Tim Brown
Cc: S-Trains
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Front pilot trucks


I find that not all Flyer front trucks came with a spring. Haven't
figured out yet how to tell if one is missing or was never there
originally. Anyone know?

Tim Brown wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> A lot of people are digging out their vintage trains and setting up holiday displays. If you are having a problem with a steamer derailing frequently, one cause may be the front pilot truck. There should be a conical spring that forces the front pilot truck down onto the rails. Often this spring is missing, broken or badly worn. Replacement parts are available through our parts dealers. Replacement is a bit tedious, I think. I recommend removing the front pilot truck and winding the spring on carefully from one end until it seats perfectly. Hope this helps makes your holiday layout more enjoyable.
>
> Tim Brown
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22186 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Layout height
Time for my two cents worth.

In my youth, I always had 24 inch wide bench work at about 36 inches. Great
for a kid. It also had a section that was 48 inches wide so I could turn
around in my AF trains. To reach a derailment, I had to climb onto the
bench work: again fine for a kid.

When I moved to Connecticut I widened the bench work to 30 inches. I can
reach 24 without help and with a Rubbermaid stool I can reach the last 6
inches for re-railing, wiring, etc. I also made the layout double-decked at
the heights of 34 and 46. The lower level was for a staging yard. One
corner of the lower level had a reverse loop and the bench work in the area
was accordingly wider. To reach the back of this corner I had to climb
underneath.

Now I am in Wisconsin and older. I still hate duckunders and avoid bridges
whenever possible. I have three double-deck sections. I am finding I am
not using the back six inches of the lower levels: I just can't reach them
like I could when I was 30. The upper levels remain easily accessible with
my Rubbermaid stools.
Access to the back of the reverse loop remains a problem and I don't
have a solution. (It is 34 inches off the floor on bench work 4 1/2 inches
tall making it a 29 1/2 inch duck under. Very low.)

Today I am reducing from around-the-room to around-half-a-room. I am
building bridges so I can get into and out of the 'layout loop' while still
standing up. Today (December 4, 2002) I am building a triple bridge: upper
level, lower level, and the ramp from lower to upper. If anyone is
interested, I can truly describe it and how it all works.

My answers on layout height:
I use 46 inches great for standing. 34 inches (12 inches less) is
great for sitting and watching.

Good luck!

Thorin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22187 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Hallmark Flyer
I guess S-Gauge has to take it's little victories where it can, like the
time at York when the Lionel guys forgot the smoke fluid and ended up buying
Supersmoke in cedar scent at the show. The Lionel tent sure smelled
familiar!

Today I was looking through the Hallmark "Dream Book" of Christmas
ornaments, and there on page 46 was the latest Lionel miniature offering, a
teeny sized General and it's tender. For background on the page, the
photographer positioned a matted photograph of Christmas past and a little
piece of HO track, all fuzzy and soft focus. The picture in the frame,
however, is of a man holding a young boy on his lap as he operates trains on
a table layout. They are American Flyer trains. 2 rail roadbedded track
with some Plasticville structures, a single Santa Fe PA pulling freight. I
can make out a yellow and a green car. Both appear to be boxcars.
Strangely, they look like Railbox and BN cars, so this particular Christmas
may not be all that far in the past.

Whoa! I just put on my super magnifiers and I don't think the engine is a
PA.. It might be an F unit. And the station building is definitely not
P'ville. Maybe one of you can ID it. For the life of me, I cannot see the
switch machine. It is clearly an AF turnout and frog but no big box
attached.

Go to a Hallmark dealer and get one of these books. Let's solve this
mystery. Who knows, maybe somone here knows this guy in the picture!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 22188 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Caig Follow-Up
I currently have 42 checks in my possession. Several more people have sent
e-mails promising checks. This thing has gotten huge. We may actually go
over 48 (4 cases).

Here is the current list of paid subscribers:

Scott A. Adams
Malcolm R. Berger
Robert M. Blackson
Stephen F. Blancard
Barry H. Bley
Roy K. Bock
Jonathan W. Bonds
Eric R. Boudreau
Donald F. Brace
Edward J. Burshnick
James T. Carnes
Foster B. Cooper III
Gerald M. Dzara
Paul M. Finerty
Alfred T. Galli
Dennis J. Gold
J. Douglas Gordon
James G. Herdt
Raymond M. Hobin
Barbara A. Jones
Ken Keki
Chad C. Kono
Joseph F. Korczynski, Jr.
Joseph H. Lechner
James J. Lott
Patrick A. Maher
Michael J. Maloney
Lester H. Mathis
Ronald S. Morris
Alan F. Nash
James J. Nicholson
Stephen L. Radakovits
Stuart W. Rankin
Stanley F. Rinkunas
Donald E. Rodems
Art Shifrin
Arthur Shor
Jack R. Sink
Christopher Uchrin
Gregory F. Weselak
Raymond E. Zawislak
Paul S. Zelinger

If you want a jar of M260Cp, get a check out now:
Chris Zizzo
85 Scudder Place
Northport, NY 11768-3026

CZ
Group: S-Trains Message: 22189 From: IronHorse Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Plaster HAAaalp
I am desperate. How desperate may you ask?
I feel like puting my head in a loco boiler door and screaming my lungs out
from frustration. And maybe slam it a few times
while my head is still in there.
Oh Dear!, what has got this guy so upset you may ask?

Nice of you to ask. ;o)

I am frustrated because plaster dries so *&^%$ fast. Pardon my
language.

I tried the milk trick years ago. The plaster dried just as fast. Unless
I did something wrong.
Some guys say use milk but omit how to go about it. The same guys never
tried it.

Anyway I have to make mountains 40' long up to the ceiling. I am on a time
crunch. I need to work fast.
I need to mix a large amount of plaster (a gallon at a time) that won't set
for an hour or so.

Does anyone realy and truly know how to slow down the drying time of plaster
??? I tried Hydracal.
Same drying time.

I know you are a great bunch of guys. I hope someone can help.

Well -- I shall pull my head out of the boiler for know. Perhaps I need
therapy. Is there a support group
for people like me?? Chuckle chuckle.

Swing and Sway the S Gauge way.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 22190 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Re: Plaster HAAaalp
Hello to all too.
I wonder how the premixed light weight wall joint compound that you use for
dry wall would work. I use it in my projects at work and it dries slower than
plaster and sands easily.
Two types are available. The normal "wet type" that is heavier and tends to
leave cracks when used in too thick of layers, and the pre mixed "light weight"
type that is lighter and drier to use but not as easy to work. The normal "wet"
type that has been around for umpity ump years is easier to mold with and comes
in pre mix or various faster dry times in the dry mix form that you add water
to. I suppose you could use the light weight for build up and finish details
with plaster or wet type compound too.
Anyone try either of these on layout building???
Howard


>I am desperate. How desperate may you ask?
>I feel like puting my head in a loco boiler door and screaming my lungs out

>from frustration. And maybe slam it a few times
>while my head is still in there.
>Oh Dear!, what has got this guy so upset you may ask?
>
>Nice of you to ask. ;o)
>
>I am frustrated because plaster dries so *&^%$ fast. Pardon my
>language.
>
>I tried the milk trick years ago. The plaster dried just as fast. Unless

>I did something wrong.
>Some guys say use milk but omit how to go about it. The same guys never
>tried it.
>
>Anyway I have to make mountains 40' long up to the ceiling. I am on a time

>crunch. I need to work fast.
>I need to mix a large amount of plaster (a gallon at a time) that won't set

>for an hour or so.
>
>Does anyone realy and truly know how to slow down the drying time of plaster

>??? I tried Hydracal.
>Same drying time.
>
>I know you are a great bunch of guys. I hope someone can help.
>
>Well -- I shall pull my head out of the boiler for know. Perhaps I need
>therapy. Is there a support group
>for people like me?? Chuckle chuckle.
>
>Swing and Sway the S Gauge way.
>
>Roger
>
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>
>
>
_______________________________________________________________________
Internet Access, Shared & Dedicated Web Hosting.
Colocation and Domain Name Registration at http://www.lanset.net
Group: S-Trains Message: 22191 From: Knight, Gene Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: plaster help
I too pondered and thought and thought what I wanted to use to make mountains etc. I did not want to use plaster for the reasons you mention plus the weight etc. So I tried the blue insulation board for houses...which I got from Lowe's at a discount for broken pieces. I also bought a foam cutting tool from www.scenicexpress.com which works like you wouldn't believe for 30 dollars. Now...I am FAR from any kind of artist..scenery builder and I impressed myself with the results. I used nothing but the foam boatd..painted it and used some scenery supplies and it looks great. An article I read says you can build the rough parts with the insulation board and then use a thin layer of plaster on top to finish it off but the way I did it looks good enough for me. You can cover a lot with scenery foam ;) It is not as messy as plaster and you use liquid nail for projects to hold it together. The regular liquid nail melts the foam.

Gene
Group: S-Trains Message: 22192 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Tonka S gauge Vehicles???
Hi all,

I stopped by Target this afternoon and checked out the Tonka die cast
vehicles. I checked the Tonka 1934 hot rod Ford against a Johnny
Lightning 1/64 1932 Ford and they looked real close to the same size
in the blister packs. I also checked the Tonka 1956 Thunderbird
against a Johnny Lightning 1965 Mustang and again they looked real
close in the blister packs. So I bought one each of the Tonkas and
brought them home. When I compared them to my collection of 1/64
Johnny Lightning and American Muscle, etc. vehicles, they are very
close matches.

You guys might want to check them out. They have three "collections"
each with over 50 vehicles. And you can't go wrong at $0.82 each!

BG1
Group: S-Trains Message: 22193 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Layout height
Just a regular person. Great!

I started in S scale in 1964. I tried HO and O in 1974 - 1977. (My father
is in On3.) My conclusion:
HO is too darn small and
O is too darn large.
I returned to S and have never looked back. (Exceptions: the brass HO
steeple cabs have a special place as does the A-B-A set of O Scale C-Liners.
I kitbashed the B Unit.) Recently I sold all of the other O scale.

On3 is really renegade S standard -- its the same size, weight, and
operating.

As for flexibility when 80! Ed Lomax (sp) in California has double-duck
unders and he negotiates them as if they weren't even there. I'm still
under 45 and I am finding duck unders to be a challenge. I like walk-overs
best. (This is where you tunnel under the stairs.) I had this until I
started down sizing a few weeks ago and am now switching to bridges.

Good luck on getting some track down. I understand the frustrations of not
having a layout. For starts I suggest either AF, AM, or SHS track. This
sectional track will get you going NOW. Later you can learn the fine art of
hand laying track. It's easier to build than it looks, gives better
results, and goes down much faster than you would expect. I also find I
only need to spike on about every fourth tie.

Let us know how it goes!
Thorin

-----Original Message-----
From: jha [mailto:mjjarm@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 8:19 PM
To: Marty.Thorin
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Layout height


Nope. Probably further down the line. In S,Sn3, & N, Have
modeled in every gauge & ridden 208 railroads tho. Hope to get some track
down this year. Debating level. JA

----- Original Message -----
From: Marty.Thorin
To: 'jha'
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 4:42 PM
Subject: RE: [S-Scale] Layout height


THE John Armstrong?
Of the layout design fame?
Or someone who is probably down at my level? (Pun intended)
Thorin
-----Original Message-----
From: jha [mailto:mjjarm@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 3:48 PM
To: Marty.Thorin
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Layout height


Wait until you are 80. John Armstrong
----- Original Message -----
From: Marty.Thorin <thorin.marty@...>
To: S-Scale (E-mail) <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com>; S-Trains (E-mail)
<S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 3:00 PM
Subject: [S-Scale] Layout height


> Time for my two cents worth.
>
> In my youth, I always had 24 inch wide bench work at about 36 inches.
Great
> for a kid. It also had a section that was 48 inches wide so I could turn
> around in my AF trains. To reach a derailment, I had to climb onto the
> bench work: again fine for a kid.
>
> When I moved to Connecticut I widened the bench work to 30 inches. I can
> reach 24 without help and with a Rubbermaid stool I can reach the last 6
> inches for re-railing, wiring, etc. I also made the layout double-decked
at
> the heights of 34 and 46. The lower level was for a staging yard. One
> corner of the lower level had a reverse loop and the bench work in the
area
> was accordingly wider. To reach the back of this corner I had to climb
> underneath.
>
> Now I am in Wisconsin and older. I still hate duckunders and avoid
bridges
> whenever possible. I have three double-deck sections. I am finding I am
> not using the back six inches of the lower levels: I just can't reach
them
> like I could when I was 30. The upper levels remain easily accessible
with
> my Rubbermaid stools.
> Access to the back of the reverse loop remains a problem and I don't
> have a solution. (It is 34 inches off the floor on bench work 4 1/2
inches
> tall making it a 29 1/2 inch duck under. Very low.)
>
> Today I am reducing from around-the-room to around-half-a-room. I am
> building bridges so I can get into and out of the 'layout loop' while
still
> standing up. Today (December 4, 2002) I am building a triple bridge:
upper
> level, lower level, and the ramp from lower to upper. If anyone is
> interested, I can truly describe it and how it all works.
>
> My answers on layout height:
> I use 46 inches great for standing. 34 inches (12 inches less) is
> great for sitting and watching.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Thorin



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22194 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Steam Loco Tester
Hi,

One of my steamer locos decided to quit running the other day so I developed a handy device for testing to see if the problem was with the reverse unit in the tender or the loco motor.
All I did was nail three pieces of wood together into a trough to hold the loco, and then cover it with an old terry towel.

Two alligator clips on wires attach to a transformer; one on the variable post and one on the base post.

The other ends of the wires are attached to the terminals at one end of a DPDT switch.

Wires from a four-prong male plug attaches to the terminals at the middle and other end of a DPDT switch as follows: a field wire on one side and a brush wire in the middle of the same side; the other field wire to the other side and the other brush wire to the other middle.

The four-pronged plug attaches to the loco jack panel (after removing the tender).

The DPDT knife switch is cross-wired underneath and is used to test the loco motor in forward and reverse.

If the loco runs okay, then I know the problem is with the reverse unit in the tender.

Caution; don't leave the knife switch in the "up" position. Have it locked on one side or the other and quickly throw it back and forth when testing. You don't want to have current running only through the field and not the brushes at the same time or you may burn out the field.

Here is a link to a pic of my tester:

http://home.att.net/~timboy/LocoTest.html

If someone can improve upon this tester, please let us all know.

Oh, my problem was a loose wire in the reverse unit.

Thanks,

Tim Brown


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22195 From: jahoozdumm Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Re: Plaster HAAaalp
Roger wrote:

>I am frustrated because plaster dries so *&^%$ fast. I tried the
>milk trick years ago. The plaster dried just as fast. Some guys say
>use milk but omit how to go about it. The same guys never tried it.


I never tried the milk trick, but I have used the vinegar trick.

Instead or using water only to mix your plaster, use a solution of
vinegar and water. Start with a 50/50 mix of vinegar/water, make a
small batch of plaster mud, and see how long it takes to begin
setting up. More vinegar = longer working time.

You should be able to at least double your working time this way.
BTW, use WHITE (colorless) vinegar, not the yellow stuff. Happy
mountaineering.



Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22196 From: Spots350SL@aol.com Date: 12/4/2002
Subject: Re: Plaster HAAaalp
When I built my mountain (you can see it in the photo folder under Michael
T's train table) I used only products that I was able to find in the
basement. To built the frame of the mountain I used wooden supports and a
heavy wire mesh forming the actual shape of the mountain. I then laid wet
Scott towels over the wire structure to keep the "plaster" from slipping
between the mesh holes. as a "plaster" I mixed one part plaster of Paris with
three parts Brown grout, then I added some graphite powder and charcoal to
give it more of a darker color. After it dried and I was finished "making it
darker" i mixed 1 part Elmer's glue with one part water and I brushed it over
the structure this keeps it from cracking and chipping. It also keeps any
brushed on charcoal from blowing away. The mountain was completed a year ago
and it has not deteriorated at all. I have pictures of each step, from frame
to finish. if you want more pics just email me and i will send them along.


-Michael Tomsa
Chicago, IL
Group: S-Trains Message: 22197 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/5/2002
Subject: Please get back to trains...
I have always tried to moderate with a light hand.
Often posting messages about off topic stuff only
generates more off topic stuff.
When I have an issue with a person I take it too that
person. If they ignore me I have some tools to get
there attention.
I try to be fair and even handed.
I don't always have enough time to read all the posts
from both lists and I am glad that several of you have
come forward to help me 'stand behind the curtain'.
(Thanks Ted & David)
I often feel proud reading the great stories and
helpful notes posted on the lists.

If you have a question about the list please feel free
to send me a note or call me.

The rules have not changed:
1) No virus warnings posted, send them to me if you
feel you must.
2) No attacks on another member.
3) No religion or politics.
4) Selling is OK. If we feel like a member is using
the list as a spam tool, we will let them know. In
other words if someone sent out a sales pitch every
week, I would ask them to back off. Sales info
included in the footer of a helpful note does not
count as spam.
5) the main topic is model trains, that allows for
models, trains, some toys, and lots of other stuff.
When someone goes to far afield we will discretely
remind them of the topic.

I have been doing this for years and feel like you
guys are some of my best friends, and in that spirit I
ask, lets move on the then next train related topic.

Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.

=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22198 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/5/2002
Subject: Website is Down (again ?!%#*&@#)
S-Scale.org is currently off line
Photo Album is off line

I am in the process of rebuilding, and I am moving to
a different (hopefully better) provider.

Chat room is currently at
http://66.246.35.207/~pyorke/forum/
but It will be moving after Sunday Night Chat.
I will keep you posted.

Sorry for the inconvience.

=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22199 From: IronHorse Date: 12/5/2002
Subject: Re: Plaster HAAaalp
HTTP://www.travel.to/cofa
----- Original Message -----
From: Howard Sheffield <hjinrosvle@...>
To: IronHorse <cofa@...>; <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>;
<S-Scale@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 12:14 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Plaster HAAaalp


> Hello to all too.
> I wonder how the premixed light weight wall joint compound that you use
for
> dry wall would work. I use it in my projects at work and it dries slower
than
> plaster and sands easily..

My train room gets freezing at night. So I have to take that into
consideration.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 22200 From: Robert Jackson Date: 12/5/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Plaster HAAaalp
IronHorse wrote:

> I am frustrated because plaster dries so *&^%$ fast. Pardon my
> language.

Do you mean plaster as that stuff which is used in building construction to
cover walls, or do you mean plaster of paris which has among its uses the
forming of casts for broken bones and such?
Bob Jackson
Group: S-Trains Message: 22201 From: lou342ac Date: 12/5/2002
Subject: Re: Plaster HAAaalp
Roger,
I remember someone telling me or reading article that you could
slow the drying process down by adding white vinegar to the mix. I
recommend performing a small comparison test to see if it does makes
a difference. What I don't recall is how much vinegar to put in the
mix. Give us some feedback on the results if you perform the test.

Lou



--- In S-Trains@y..., "IronHorse" <cofa@t...> wrote:
> I am desperate. How desperate may you ask?
> I feel like puting my head in a loco boiler door and screaming my
lungs out
> from frustration. And maybe slam it a few times
> while my head is still in there.
> Oh Dear!, what has got this guy so upset you may ask?
>
> Nice of you to ask. ;o)
>
> I am frustrated because plaster dries so *&^%$ fast. Pardon my
> language.
>
> I tried the milk trick years ago. The plaster dried just as
fast. Unless
> I did something wrong.
> Some guys say use milk but omit how to go about it. The same guys
never
> tried it.
>
> Anyway I have to make mountains 40' long up to the ceiling. I am
on a time
> crunch. I need to work fast.
> I need to mix a large amount of plaster (a gallon at a time) that
won't set
> for an hour or so.
>
> Does anyone realy and truly know how to slow down the drying time
of plaster
> ??? I tried Hydracal.
> Same drying time.
>
> I know you are a great bunch of guys. I hope someone can help.
>
> Well -- I shall pull my head out of the boiler for know. Perhaps
I need
> therapy. Is there a support group
> for people like me?? Chuckle chuckle.
>
> Swing and Sway the S Gauge way.
>
> Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 22202 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 12/5/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1667
In a message dated 12/05/2002 6:52:29 PM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:

> Chuck, I think you'll find that there is no washer on the 290 truck.
> Basic locos with cast pilot trucks but the stamped Atlantic type
> crosshead guide assembly did not get this added parts group of spring
> and washer. The 293 may be an exception there I don't have one to
> look at here. Cost savings for ACG I guess.
>

Dave, the 293 has the spring/washer combo. At least all four of mine do.

Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22203 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 12/5/2002
Subject: Plaster drying question
In a message dated 12/05/2002 6:52:29 PM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:

> Does anyone really and truly know how to slow down the drying time of
> plaster
> ??? I tried Hydracal.
> Same drying time.
>
> I know you are a great bunch of guys. I hope someone can help.
>
Try drywall mud. Takes a long time to set up. Gives you plenty of time to
shape it and mess around.

Steve



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22204 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/5/2002
Subject: Plaster
Plaster of Paris dries rapidly and produces a great deal of heat. When I
use it for stuctural repairs in home remodeling, I mix it with regular
weight (green lid) joint compound. Make a cratered mountain of joint
compound on a board. Into the crater pour plaster and water. Mix with a
hand trowel, folding the compound into the plaster and water.

The resultant mix will handle like compound, but set up faster. It will be
considerably slower than plaster alone.

Cracking may still result where it is applied heavily. Fix it with plain
joint compound after it dries.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 22205 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/6/2002
Subject: Caig
I've gotten a ton of e-mails (a virtual mass of weightless electrons)
promising checks in the mail (One of the three great lies. The other two
are "You can hardly notice the middle rail" and "I promise I won't snipe
your bid.").

I will keep this thing going for as long as kernels are popping with a
reasonable frequency. Once the activity drops off, the popcorn is done.

Anybody who is sending a check and who sent me an e-mail will get in on the
order. I wanted to cut it off today, but I got 5 e-mails yesterday. (No
snail-mail checks though, with the snow. Whatever happened to "Neither rain
nor snow nor gloom of night . . . "?)

I've got 42 now and a bunch coming. We could go to 5 cases. Both the TCA
and Yorke S-Train lists are in on it now. Guys who missed out last time are
taking this shot.

Send the $25 checks made out to:
Chris Zizzo
85 Scudder Place
Northport, NY 11768-3026

If you want to look at the cycle of posts on this subject:
On toytrains list search for "Caig" and for "Commutator Cleaning"
On S-Trains list search for "Caig" and for "Excessive Sparking"

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 22206 From: Ted Larson Date: 12/6/2002
Subject: General "plaster" info
I forwarded Roger's plaster question to a local scenery expert. Here
is his reply so that all of you can see it. Ted Larson

December 4th, 2002
To: Roger cofa@
From: Dick Senges, Victor, NY
RE: Plaster Drying Time
Roger -

I have been using plaster for some years and the drying or curing time
is relatively fast. I am also a Master Builder - Scenery via the
Achievement Program of the NMRA.

Hydrocal - Used for making mountains. Very strong and very hard! Too
hard for rock castings. Price is good - $22.00 for 100 pounds. The
fastest is Hydrocal in that it is a chemical reaction and not drying
per se. You can slow it down a very little by using very cold water
(like with ice), don't stir it a lot, and also vinegar added to the
mix. But this will not slow it down for one hour, maybe just a minute
or two.

Molding Plaster - Use for making rock castings. Hard, but not as hard
as Hydrocal. Price is OK - $12.00 for 50 pounds. Takes acrylic stains
well. It also drys fast and the castings can be removed from the mold
in a bout 20 minutes. So this would not work for you.

Sculptamold - Used for contouring your mountains. A mix of paper mache
and plaster. Relatively expensive - $38.00 for 25#. Nice to work
with since you can mix somewhat dry and put a ball of the stuff in your
hands. This also drys some what fast though slower that Hydrocal. It
can be spread with your fingers. Nice stuff if price is not an issue.


I use the three above and if I was making a 40 foot mountain (not the
rock castings but the form) I would use the Hydrocal. It is very hard,
strong and cheap. I would have one person mixing, one person
spreading the Hydrocal, and one person washing the buckets. I would
work fast on each batch. The mix would be about 1.5 of Hydrocal water
to 1.0 of water. This is a little soopy and will give you a litte
longer working time. Do not over stir. Use very cold water. I did
some extensive scenery for the Medina Railroad Museum in Medina, NY,
this summer and that is how we did the plaster. Covered a very large
area in one day.

If using rock casting, I would use molding plaster and make the
castings off site, and install at your leisure.

One of my friends, Matt Kovacic of Fairport, NY, does use a plaster
that is slow. It is Durabond 45, ie, 45 minutes working time. There
is also Durabond 60, and 90, which extend the working time to 60 and 90
minutes. I have not used these materials. I believe that he
purchases these at Home Depot here in Victor. I believe that they are
expensive in small quantities, but maybe can be purchaed in large
quantities. I can get his e-mail if your want.

GOOP - Another solution is to use GOOP. This has been used by the
Rochester (Rochester, NY) Model Rail Club and others over the years.
It is a mixture of white glue, brown paint, Perma-Scene (a vermiculite
like material) and paper mache. It will take days to dry! It can even
be stored for weeks in a covered can or jar. It mixes up to a
consistency of peanut butter and you spread it on. The only problem is
that you can not get perma-Scene anymore, but you probably could
substitute finely gound vermiculite purchased from a garden store.
The other problem is that the paper mache is expensive. But is it VERY
SLOW drying.
So, if slow drying time is the number one critera, this is your stuff!


You can pass this note to anyone you wish.

Dick Senges
Victor, NY

=====
Ted Larson

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22207 From: castironv8@aol.com Date: 12/6/2002
Subject: Plaster HAAaalp
Hello all,
RE: Plaster

My two cents.

I have used, with very good success, setting type drywall joint compounds
such as, but not necessarily limited to, Sheet Rock brand DURABOND 90. The
stuff is cheap, available at your local Home Depot or Lowes, requires that
you only mix with water, and it allows a long, 90 or so minutes, working
time. It is made for filling deep joints, so it does not tend to crack as it
dries.

I also add some painter's tint such as Burnt Umber (also available at Home
Depot or any paint store) in order to add color to the mix. This saves some
painting time and also aids in cases of subsequent damage after scenery. The
damage does not stand out as much since the color is throughout the mix.

Regards,
Curtis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22208 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/6/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, December 8, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page http://s-scale.org/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 22209 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/6/2002
Subject: Caig Follow-up
Wow! I got 15 checks today. 57 people are signed up. Eight are S-Trains
list guys. $1425 collected so far. Ooh, what I could buy!

Here are the names:

Scott A. Adams
David A. Avedesian
Malcolm R. Berger
Robert M. Blackson
Stephen F. Blancard
Richard L. Blanding
Barry H. Bley
Roy K. Bock
Jonathan W. Bonds
Eric R. Boudreau
Donald F. Brace
Edward J. Burshnick
James T. Carnes
Foster B. Cooper III
Gerald M. Dzara
Paul M. Finerty
Joel Fugazzotto
Alfred T. Galli
Dennis J. Gold
J. Douglas Gordon
Phil Gurile
Joseph Haenn
James N. Heikkala
James G. Herdt
Raymond M. Hobin
Barbara A. Jones
Ken Keki
Chad C. Kono
Joseph F. Korczynski, Jr.
Joseph H. Lechner
James J. Lott
Patrick A. Maher
Michael J. Maloney
Lester H. Mathis
Wallace D. McLean
Ernest Mennecke
Ronald S. Morris
Alan F. Nash
James J. Nicholson
Douglas Peck
Stephen L. Radakovits
Stuart W. Rankin
Stanley F. Rinkunas
Donald E. Rodems
Donald J. Rosa
Art Shifrin
Joseph M. Shirrell
Arthur Shor
Jack R. Sink
Dr. Russell E. Trahan, Jr.
David L. Tyner
Christopher Uchrin
David G. Wecker
James Weide
Gregory F. Weselak
Raymond E. Zawislak
Paul S. Zelinger

There are still quite a few list members who sent e-mails today that they
were mailing checks. If you want a jar of this stuff, send now please.

$25 made out to:

Chris Zizzo
85 Scudder Pl.
Northport, NY 11768-3026

CZ
Group: S-Trains Message: 22210 From: IronHorse Date: 12/7/2002
Subject: Trestle
Boy what a project! Making the cliff behind the Frankenstein trestle is almost as
complicated as the trestle. I am making it as accurate as I can so it looks like the actual cliff. I use a number of strange of strange techniques to put it all together.
I used the following. Wood strapping, Dowels, Cloth, Plaster, styrafoam, food skwers, and Sheet rock screws. Each has its own purpose.
According to old pictures which show the trestle and cliff, The Franklin loco and passenger cars are perfect for the scene.
I will post a picture after I finish up.

Later

Roger

HTTP://www.travel.to/cofa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22211 From: Ted Larson Date: 12/7/2002
Subject: module gotchas
I reported last week some module construction benchwork "gotchas" that I
had not previously seen........

arrgghhh,
I just came across another! I bought 2' x 4' x 1/4" flakeboard (similar
to plywood) for module tops. My modules are 2-1/2' wide, so I cut up a
5th 2'x4' section for the remaining 6 inches of each module. After
getting everything level last week, I thought all was fine until I
discovered that the thickness of the flakeboard sections varies. Double
check everything................ preferably BEFORE you nail, screw, and
glue it together.

O well, an hour with the belt sander and all's well......

Ted

________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22212 From: Paul Date: 12/7/2002
Subject: Chat Room Relocated
I won't bore you with the details, here is the bottem line.
The link has changed.
Go to http://S-Scale.org/forum/ to get to chat.
There will be a chat room there or a link to the chat room.
If you are an AOL8 user you better use Internet Explorer.

Sunday Night 8PM EST
Group: S-Trains Message: 22213 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/7/2002
Subject: Caig - Closing the list
I now have 66 names with checks. 6 cases is 72 containers. Over the next
day or so I will get the 6 remaining checks, I'm sure. I don't want to go
to 7 cases. This is going to be a lot of packing to do as it is. So I am
cutting off subscriptions at this point.

If I don't already have your e-mail promise of a check, hold off sending it.
If I have a spot for another, I'll post it here.

I am posting 3 lists below, the paid-up subscribers and the promises. Look
for your name. I will accept checks from the 17 people listed only. I may
be able to get a split case so all of you can get on board. My guess is
only about 6 of you will get a check in, so we'll be done. I will order the
6 cases this week.

Paid:
Scott A. Adams
David A. Avedesian
Malcolm R. Berger
Robert M. Blackson
Stephen F. Blancard
Richard L. Blanding
Barry H. Bley
Roy K. Bock
Jonathan W. Bonds
Eric R. Boudreau
Donald F. Brace
Edward J. Burshnick
James T. Carnes
Foster B. Cooper III
Gerald M. Dzara
Paul M. Finerty
Joel Fugazzotto
Alfred T. Galli
Dennis J. Gold
J. Douglas Gordon
Charles L. Grover III
Phil Gurile
Joseph Haenn
James N. Heikkala
James G. Herdt
Raymond M. Hobin
Ron L. Inscho
Ronald Jacobek
Barbara A. Jones
Ken Keki
Chad C. Kono
Joseph F. Korczynski, Jr.
Joseph H. Lechner
James J. Lott
Patrick A. Maher
Michael J. Maloney
Lester H. Mathis
Wallace D. McLean
Ernest Mennecke
Charles L. Messinger Jr.
Ronald S. Morris
Alan F. Nash
James J. Nicholson
Douglas Peck
Stephen L. Radakovits
Stuart W. Rankin
Stanley F. Rinkunas
Donald E. Rodems
Donald J. Rosa
Art Shifrin
Joseph M. Shirrell
Arthur Shor
Jack R. Sink
Robert A. Taylor
Dr. Russell E. Trahan, Jr.
David L. Tyner
Christopher Uchrin
David G. Wecker
James Weide
Gregory F. Weselak
David F. White
James W. Whitlock
Darryl Woods
Roy P. Yost
Raymond E. Zawislak
Paul S. Zelinger

Checks Promised, not yet received:
Don Abrams
Jim Armstrong
Dennis Back
Ted Calcut
Marty Cook
Tom Jarcho
Michael McConnell
Jacques Ollivier
Roger V. Petrella Jr.
Russell A. Rawling
Roy Truesdale
Alan Udy
Roger Walton
Bill Zide

There also were inquiries from:
Bob Mayer
Gary Nachman
Frank Rowan

If you want one, send your $25 check made out to:
Chris Zizzo
85 Scudder Pl.
Northport, NY 11768-3026

Thanx,
CZ
Group: S-Trains Message: 22214 From: Ted Larson Date: 12/7/2002
Subject: Module Planning Question
I have some module trackwork planning questions.

What is the closest you recommend placing switch points to the end of a
module (assuming bridge rails are 4" long, 2" on each module)?

What is the closest you recommend placing the switch points of one switch
to the frog of an adjacent switch?

S-trains replies, please cc: me directly.

Thanks,
Ted Larson

________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22215 From: Steve Roche Date: 12/7/2002
Subject: 752 Seaboard Coal Loader
Happy Holidays to everybody. I am in the final thro's (sp?) of my xmas layout. My one last dilema is my Seaboard Coal Loader.
My previos field went bad so I bought a new dual winded field from Doug Peck. My question is how to wire it up. Please help. Steve Roche


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22216 From: srgriggs Date: 12/8/2002
Subject: Re: module gotchas
My module building experience has told me to use thick material for
the module tops, and the possibly use an open-frame construction. I
originally built my layout modules with 3/8" A-C grade plywood. As I
found out after I had the homabed roadbed and track laid, this
plywood makes a terrific acoustic diaphram when the trains run over
it (that's bad if you want to hear the choo choo of your
locomotives). As part of my noise reduction effort, I had to custom
cut 3/8" plywood doubler panels to go underneath each module, between
the 1x4 crossmembers. If I had it to do over, I would cut to the
chase and use high grade 3/4" plywood for the table tops because it
is eight times stiffer than the single 3/8" I initially used and
makes for a very straight and level running surface.

As a second step to reduce the noise, I also took up all the track
and inserted 1/16" thick cork automotive gasket material between the
track and homabed to further dampen vibrations before they reach the
layout structure. Overall, it has worked pretty well and you can
hear the trains much better than before. I think the next step will
be to make sure the basement train room of our next house is
carpetted and possibly has sound-absorbing ceiling tiles to reduce
room reverberations.

Scott

--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, Ted Larson <mhrreast1@j...> wrote:
> I reported last week some module construction benchwork "gotchas"
that I
> had not previously seen........
>
> arrgghhh,
> I just came across another! I bought 2' x 4' x 1/4" flakeboard
(similar
> to plywood) for module tops. My modules are 2-1/2' wide, so I cut
up a
> 5th 2'x4' section for the remaining 6 inches of each module. After
> getting everything level last week, I thought all was fine until I
> discovered that the thickness of the flakeboard sections varies.
Double
> check everything................ preferably BEFORE you nail, screw,
and
> glue it together.
>
> O well, an hour with the belt sander and all's well......
>
> Ted
Group: S-Trains Message: 22217 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/8/2002
Subject: Re: module gotchas (noise)
You want modules to be fairly light. Our club constructed modules using
1x4 frames and cross braces, with 1/4" luaun tops. There is 3/4"
carveable blue or pink foam subroadbed (optional to do whole surface)
over that. Homasote or cork roadbed is glued over the foam, with AM
flextrack glued to the roadbed. This combination is fairly quiet and
lightweight to schlepp.
Unfortunately, when I built them I used diluted white glue to ballast
the AM flextrack and that generates a little noise. Now I know that
matte medium or acrylic floor wax would make better ballast cement that
doesn't harden so much and resonate a little. The sound level, though,
is not what I'd call too loud, the modules are nice and light, and have
survived many train shows.

"srgriggs " wrote:
>
> My module building experience has told me to use thick material for
> the module tops, and the possibly use an open-frame construction. I
> originally built my layout modules with 3/8" A-C grade plywood. As I
> found out after I had the homabed roadbed and track laid, this
> plywood makes a terrific acoustic diaphram when the trains run over
> it (that's bad if you want to hear the choo choo of your
> locomotives). As part of my noise reduction effort, I had to custom
> cut 3/8" plywood doubler panels to go underneath each module, between
> the 1x4 crossmembers. If I had it to do over, I would cut to the
> chase and use high grade 3/4" plywood for the table tops because it
> is eight times stiffer than the single 3/8" I initially used and
> makes for a very straight and level running surface.
>
> As a second step to reduce the noise, I also took up all the track
> and inserted 1/16" thick cork automotive gasket material between the
> track and homabed to further dampen vibrations before they reach the
> layout structure. Overall, it has worked pretty well and you can
> hear the trains much better than before. I think the next step will
> be to make sure the basement train room of our next house is
> carpetted and possibly has sound-absorbing ceiling tiles to reduce
> room reverberations.
>
> Scott
>
> --- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, Ted Larson <mhrreast1@j...> wrote:
> > I reported last week some module construction benchwork "gotchas"
> that I
> > had not previously seen........
> >
> > arrgghhh,
> > I just came across another! I bought 2' x 4' x 1/4" flakeboard
> (similar
> > to plywood) for module tops. My modules are 2-1/2' wide, so I cut
> up a
> > 5th 2'x4' section for the remaining 6 inches of each module. After
> > getting everything level last week, I thought all was fine until I
> > discovered that the thickness of the flakeboard sections varies.
> Double
> > check everything................ preferably BEFORE you nail, screw,
> and
> > glue it together.
> >
> > O well, an hour with the belt sander and all's well......
> >
> > Ted
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 22218 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/8/2002
Subject: 752 seaboard coaler field wiring
From memory, with mistakes possible, the coaler field is wired as follows.

There are two windings on the field. There are three leads coming from it.
One is double, consisting of one end of each of the two field coils. This
double connection is wired to the motor brush that is NOT wired to the base
post (black wire). The two single leads are connected to the red and green
wires. Remember to scrape the enamel insulation off the ends of the field
winding wires before making connections.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 22219 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/8/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, December 8, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

Weekly Chat at S-Trains Chat Page http://s-scale.org/forum/
Group: S-Trains Message: 22220 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 12/8/2002
Subject: Parts help
Greetings to all! Am looking for a "tired" 651 shell that is intact.
Paint/lettering is not a concern. If anyone can help, please contact me
off-list. Thanks and best wishes, Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 22221 From: elinashusband Date: 12/9/2002
Subject: Replacement transformer
I recently inherited an AF set from 1947, which apart from a dead
transformer, is in excellent shape. (after about 8 hours of cleaning
and lubricating train and cleaning track.)

Now I have a Tech II 1400 from about 13-14 years ago (from my
childhood set which was sadly damaged beyond hope while in storage)
that is able to run the train (barely) but I'm looking for something
with enough power to run it with the lighted caboose, whistling
billboard, #751 Log loader, Water tower, a couple of switches, etc...

Anyway, my real question is this... As I'm a bit squeamish in the
first place about running a 50+ year old transformer (even if it did
work), and I'm looking to probably get a new loco in a few years, so
that the current one can move to lighter duty, and hopefully run for
a good long time.... What should I be looking for? Should I be
looking for something like the MRC AC Power line?
(http://www.modelrectifier.com/catalog/item39.html) Should I stick
with DC? If so, what can I get that would have enough power?

Any suggestions would be helpful. My thought had been either the Pure
Power AC or the Throttle Pack 027. Realizing of course that the
buttons for sound would do me no good right now.

Luis Matthews
Group: S-Trains Message: 22222 From: splitdorf@1bigred.com Date: 12/9/2002
Subject: Re: Replacement transformer
Why not buy a good used American Flyer transformer from one of the reputable dealers? Someone like Doug Peck at Portlines or Joe at Joe's Trains can sell you a good original that has been tested and ready for many more years of good use. These will be much less expensive than one of those fan-dancy newfangled models and give your locos the type of electricity they were designed for.

Steve Blancard

----- Original Message -----
From: elinashusband
Sent: 12/9/2002 12:01:54 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Replacement transformer

> I recently inherited an AF set from 1947, which apart from a dead
> transformer, is in excellent shape. (after about 8 hours of cleaning
> and lubricating train and cleaning track.)
>
> Now I have a Tech II 1400 from about 13-14 years ago (from my
> childhood set which was sadly damaged beyond hope while in storage)
> that is able to run the train (barely) but I'm looking for something
> with enough power to run it with the lighted caboose, whistling
> billboard, #751 Log loader, Water tower, a couple of switches, etc...
>
> Anyway, my real question is this... As I'm a bit squeamish in the
> first place about running a 50+ year old transformer (even if it did
> work), and I'm looking to probably get a new loco in a few years, so
> that the current one can move to lighter duty, and hopefully run for
> a good long time.... What should I be looking for? Should I be
> looking for something like the MRC AC Power line?
> (http://www.modelrectifier.com/catalog/item39.html) Should I stick
> with DC? If so, what can I get that would have enough power?
>
> Any suggestions would be helpful. My thought had been either the Pure
> Power AC or the Throttle Pack 027. Realizing of course that the
> buttons for sound would do me no good right now.
>
> Luis Matthews
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22223 From: John Foley Date: 12/9/2002
Subject: SHS E-7's
Hi Folks
Well according to SHS's 2003 we have E-7's
in our future. WOW!!! new things in S all the time
lately.
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 22224 From: John Foley Date: 12/9/2002
Subject: Fwd: [S-Scale] SHS E-7's
>
>Hi Folks
> Well according to SHS's 2003 catolog we have E-7's
>in our future. WOW!!! new things in S all the time
>lately.
>John
>
>
>To see or post Photos visit
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/
>or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/
>To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22225 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/9/2002
Subject: Caig - finalizing
I heard from Caig today. They will handle split cases at the same price, so
even though I have 75 checks and 72 is an even case lot, everybody still
gets one.

I will accept whatever checks get to me by Friday of this week. If it's
already in the mail, you're in. If not, don't send it. This has to end
somewhere.

These are the names of confirmed subscribers as of today. Look for your
name.

Donald P. Abrams
Scott A. Adams
Steve Allen
David A. Avedesian
Dennis L. Back
Malcolm R. Berger
Robert M. Blackson
Stephen F. Blancard
Richard L. Blanding
Barry H. Bley
Roy K. Bock
Jonathan W. Bonds
Eric R. Boudreau
Donald F. Brace
Edward J. Burshnick
James T. Carnes
Foster B. Cooper III
Gerald M. Dzara
Paul M. Finerty
Joel Fugazzotto
Alfred T. Galli
Dennis J. Gold
J. Douglas Gordon
Charles L. Grover III
Phil Gurile
Joseph Haenn
James N. Heikkala
James G. Herdt
Raymond M. Hobin
Ron L. Inscho
Ronald Jacobek
Thomas Jarcho
Barbara A. Jones
Ken Keki
Chad C. Kono
Joseph F. Korczynski, Jr.
Joseph H. Lechner
James J. Lott
Patrick A. Maher
Michael J. Maloney
Lester H. Mathis
Wallace D. McLean
Ernest Mennecke
Charles L. Messinger Jr.
Ronald S. Morris
Alan F. Nash
James J. Nicholson
Jacques H. Ollivier
Douglas Peck
Roger V. Petrella
Stephen L. Radakovits
Stuart W. Rankin
Stanley F. Rinkunas
Donald E. Rodems
Donald J. Rosa
Art Shifrin
Joseph M. Shirrell
Arthur Shor
Jack R. Sink
Robert A. Taylor
Dr. Russell E. Trahan, Jr.
David L. Tyner
Christopher Uchrin
Alan C. Udy
Roger B. Walton
David G. Wecker
James Weide
Gregory F. Weselak
David F. White
James W. Whitlock
Darryl Woods
Roy P. Yost
Raymond E. Zawislak
Paul S. Zelinger
William J. Zide

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 22226 From: ljack70117@adelphia.net Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] AM Alco FA2 to FA1 conversion
IIRC the FA1 Is 4 feet shorter than the FA2, besides all the detail differences.
Thank you
Larry Jackman

Kelvin White wrote:

Greetings from across the pond.
AM Alco FA2 to FA1 conversion

I have an American Models FA2 (undec) and lots of BTS detailing parts that may be looking for a new home?
As my early era modelling is now decided as Florida 1954 it's a bit out of place. One possible salvation is
to convert it to a SAL FA1.

Has anybody done this conversion?

I seem to recall an article but can't find it?

Any advise?

Thanks

Kelvin White
WHITEOAK MODELS
UK importer of American S Scale
Whiteoak Models Turnouts.
16 Brogden Close
North Hinksey
Oxford OX2 9DS
England
Group: S-Trains Message: 22227 From: Ted Larson Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: forwarded scenery note
Forwarded Note:
=========================
I am surprised nobody suggested GOOP. Good for mountains, not for
castings. GOOP will take about 2-3 days to dry. There is a whole
chapter in the new Kalmbach book "Basic Scenery" by Lou Sassi.

Dickm S

=====
Ted Larson

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 22228 From: Roy Inman Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: Amtrak
To railfans of all stripes:
This morning at 7:35, and for the first time since December 1, 1985, a
regularly scheduled passenger train arrived at Union Station Kansas City,
boarded passengers and fifteen minutes later, headed for Chicago.
Pete and Carolyn McMasters, the couple who bought the last ticket for the
last train out of the Station, bought the first ticket this morning.
Not to put too dramatic a point on it, but for railfans it was a magic
moment.
And in that blue, hazy morning light, not a bad photo opportunity.
Trains are back in Union Station.
Cheers :)
Roy Inman
Group: S-Trains Message: 22229 From: John Foley Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: Virus
Hi Folks
I am not a computer wiz, but I would like
to tell you what just happen to me. One of
those emails selling Viagra showed up again.
I didn't open it but I did click on where it said
it would remove my email address from farther
ads from them. It took me to a page that said
your email has be removed, the instant I closed
that page, bang a virus called Exception Exploit
Virus showed up. Luckily my Norton's anti-virus
program intersected it. So all I can think is if
you ask to have your email address removed
from their mailing list this is revenge ????
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 22230 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: The Man who Saved Christams
Hello, Boys!

The link below will take you to cbs.com and the previews for "The Man Who
Saved Christmas". Considerable license with history, it seems, but the core
plot element -- the War Production Board committee hearing during WW I -- is
essentially true. Passing this along from Andy Jugle.

Enjoy. Merry, merry!

RB

http://www.cbs.com/primetime/movies_specials/mas_man_who_saved_christmas.shtml




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22231 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: Loader Noise
My 751 log loader makes a racket when mechanism is activated to lift
a log into the pick up. Any way to quiet it down? How about Caig?
Thanks,John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22232 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: loader noise
An accessory with a noisy solenoid can be quieted to some extent by
operating it on DC instead of AC. Insert a 5 amp diode bridge between the
accessory and transformer.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 22233 From: David Engle Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Virus
John Foley wrote:

I have heard/read a number of times that trying to go through that
deletion process merely lets these people know you are indeed out there
and they can hit you again, or pass you on to others. Once again, the
good old delete key is the best to go. DJE
Group: S-Trains Message: 22234 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Virus
Only delete after you have hit the block sender button...Replying in any way
shows its A valid address...Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Engle" <ironhors@...>
To: "John Foley" <foley164@...>
Cc: "S-Scale@egroups" <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com>; "s-trains@egroups"
<S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 4:34 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: [S-Scale] Virus


> John Foley wrote:
>
> I have heard/read a number of times that trying to go through that
> deletion process merely lets these people know you are indeed out there
> and they can hit you again, or pass you on to others. Once again, the
> good old delete key is the best to go. DJE
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22235 From: mythunder2000 Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: "DC" loco question
Hi,
I apologize in advance for likely an "easy" question for you all.
But since I'm ignorant about these matters, better to ask that prove
yourself foolish!

I am soon to receive as a gift a "DC" locomotive. Do I need a
special transformer (or other equipment) to run it with my standard
AF setup?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Cordially,
Glenn õ¿õ
Group: S-Trains Message: 22236 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: Re: "DC" loco question
You will need a DC supply or rectify the output of your AC transformer,
which is quite easy to do. Go to Radio Shack and get a bridge rectifier
of about 5-6 amps. Hook the two legs of the bridge with the sine wave
symbols to the transformer variable output. Hook the DC output to the
track. Now you have DC power but no directional control. For directional
control hook the DC to the center terminals of a DPDT switch. Cross
wire the two outside pairs of terminals (forms an x). Add a pair of
wires from the outside terminals on one end of the switch to the track.
Now your transformer is putting out variable DC with the ability to
polarity reverse.

Speaking practically, if your DC engine only draws an amp or 2 (which
means it has what we call a can motor) it probably draws 2 amps or less
and it may be easier to just get a DC power supply. These are quite
commonly sold used at some train stores. Just be sure you get one with
a variable 12 volt output of 24VA or higher. If the DC motor draws more
than a couple amps you're better off converting the transformer to DC
output as described above because transformers of 50W (50VA in DC) are
quite common.

"mythunder2000 " wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I apologize in advance for likely an "easy" question for you all.
> But since I'm ignorant about these matters, better to ask that prove
> yourself foolish!
>
> I am soon to receive as a gift a "DC" locomotive. Do I need a
> special transformer (or other equipment) to run it with my standard
> AF setup?
>
> Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
> Cordially,
> Glenn õ¿õ
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 22237 From: Dan Brindell Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: Re: Replacement transformer
Luis,
I did some research on this awhile ago and concluded that:
1. Running an S-scale locomotive with a modern DC can motor requires about
1 amp or 15 watts, and
2. Running a Flyer locomotive with an AC motor requires about 3 amps or 45
watts.
(I would appreciate any feedback from other members of the list who can
either confirm or refute these numbers).

MRC makes a 60 VA, DC powerpack that is intended for use with G scale
trains. See http://www.modelrectifier.com/catalog/item52.html
However, if my numbers above are correct, that is just a little more than
the requirement to run one Flyer, leaving you almost nothing left over for
accessories. So I wouldn't recommend it unless you are really sold on DC
operation.

The Pure Power AC model is rated at 130 watts, and the Throttle Pack 027 is
100 watts, so either one could do the job. But if you want AC, I think the
best choice of all is an old Flyer transformer such as a 15B. They produce
plenty of power AND they have the deadman control which is very cool, not to
mention more prototypical than the others.

You wrote:
"As I'm a bit squeamish in the first place about running a 50+ year old
transformer..." but I wouldn't worry about it. The Flyer units are quite
sturdy and well-built, as long as you get one that hasn't been abused.
Probably the best thing is to purchase one from a reputable dealer who
checks the internals before selling.

Dan B.


----- Original Message -----
From: <ghoti@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 12:01 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Replacement transformer


> I recently inherited an AF set from 1947, which apart from a dead
> transformer, is in excellent shape. (after about 8 hours of cleaning
> and lubricating train and cleaning track.)
>
> Now I have a Tech II 1400 from about 13-14 years ago (from my
> childhood set which was sadly damaged beyond hope while in storage)
> that is able to run the train (barely) but I'm looking for something
> with enough power to run it with the lighted caboose, whistling
> billboard, #751 Log loader, Water tower, a couple of switches, etc...
>
> Anyway, my real question is this... As I'm a bit squeamish in the
> first place about running a 50+ year old transformer (even if it did
> work), and I'm looking to probably get a new loco in a few years, so
> that the current one can move to lighter duty, and hopefully run for
> a good long time.... What should I be looking for? Should I be
> looking for something like the MRC AC Power line?
> (http://www.modelrectifier.com/catalog/item39.html) Should I stick
> with DC? If so, what can I get that would have enough power?
>
> Any suggestions would be helpful. My thought had been either the Pure
> Power AC or the Throttle Pack 027. Realizing of course that the
> buttons for sound would do me no good right now.
>
> Luis Matthews
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22238 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: replacement transformer
Dan, I think you underestimate the power requirements of a Gilbert Flyer train.

In my experience, most Flyer trains from the three digit period need at
least 75 watts to perform well. You need to consider the motor, lights,
smoke unit, reverse unit, all draw power and are not new. Plus there is
some power loss through the track, unless you want to attach eight million
feeder wires to same. Double motor diesels and larger metal steam locos
require more. Gilbert recommended a minimum of a 100 watt transformer for
these, and that has proved to be a correct extimate in my view. A 100 watt
transformer is the minimum I would consider for Gilbert Flyer, unless I
were running a small plastic loco around a small loop. For double motor
diesels and large steamers, I would recommend a 175 watt transformer or
more.

The Baldwin, handcar, docksider, Casey Jones, and other 5 digit items,
including the large steamers, use less power and in fact can be damaged by
the largest Flyer transformers. If you just give them the power they need
to run, and service them when they get sluggish instead of applying more
juice, they should be all right.

Tom Jarcho.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22239 From: Don Thompson Date: 12/10/2002
Subject: Re: replacement transformer
Dear Tom,
We could not agree with you more. When customers call looking for the next
bigger transformer to operate their AF and our stuff too (even scale DCC) we
recommend vintage AC Gilbert AF transformers. We warn them about the 50+ year old
power cords and to purchase from someone who can upgrade and repair these great and
inexpensive power sources.
Don T.

jarcho@... wrote:

> Dan, I think you underestimate the power requirements of a Gilbert Flyer train.
>
> In my experience, most Flyer trains from the three digit period need at
> least 75 watts to perform well. You need to consider the motor, lights,
> smoke unit, reverse unit, all draw power and are not new. Plus there is
> some power loss through the track, unless you want to attach eight million
> feeder wires to same. Double motor diesels and larger metal steam locos
> require more. Gilbert recommended a minimum of a 100 watt transformer for
> these, and that has proved to be a correct extimate in my view. A 100 watt
> transformer is the minimum I would consider for Gilbert Flyer, unless I
> were running a small plastic loco around a small loop. For double motor
> diesels and large steamers, I would recommend a 175 watt transformer or
> more.
>
> The Baldwin, handcar, docksider, Casey Jones, and other 5 digit items,
> including the large steamers, use less power and in fact can be damaged by
> the largest Flyer transformers. If you just give them the power they need
> to run, and service them when they get sluggish instead of applying more
> juice, they should be all right.
>
> Tom Jarcho.

-- -- Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
1.800.465.0303
2002 Christmas Car, 2 & 3 bay PS-2s & Composite hoppers are now shipping!
http://www.showcaseline.com/3bayps2_in_stock.html
http://www.showcaseline.com/2bayps2_in_stock.html
http://www.showcaseline.com/CompositeHoppers/compositehoppers.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 22240 From: Thomas Stoltz Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: digest
Am I having trouble receiving the digest? The last one I received was #1670 dated 12/09/02.

This is the second time I've written with this problem.

Tom


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22241 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: Re: replacement transformer
In a message dated 12/11/2002 1:47:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,
robin@... writes:

> When customers call looking for the next
> bigger transformer to operate their AF and our stuff too (even scale DCC)
> we
> recommend vintage AC Gilbert AF transformers.

This is how I run my stuff both old and new, too. An alternative to consider,
if one wants a new power source and has the money to spend, is the new Lionel
ZW, which runs Flyer well and runs Flyonel better than the vintage Gilbert
supplies. The whistle and bell buttons are useful for new Flyer and the
314AW, too.

RB


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22242 From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: Re: replacement transformer
Yo:

One could even take the next step and use Lionel's TMCC, in conventional
mode. This would give you wireless control. No reason why this would not
work.

Tommy

-----Original Message-----
From: rbubeck327@... [mailto:rbubeck327@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:08 AM
To: robin@...; jarcho@...
Cc: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] replacement transformer


In a message dated 12/11/2002 1:47:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,
robin@... writes:

> When customers call looking for the next
> bigger transformer to operate their AF and our stuff too (even scale DCC)
> we
> recommend vintage AC Gilbert AF transformers.

This is how I run my stuff both old and new, too. An alternative to
consider,
if one wants a new power source and has the money to spend, is the new
Lionel
ZW, which runs Flyer well and runs Flyonel better than the vintage Gilbert
supplies. The whistle and bell buttons are useful for new Flyer and the
314AW, too.

RB


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Group: S-Trains Message: 22243 From: elinashusband Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: Re: replacement transformer
Thank you to everyone who has responded so far. (I will at some point
email everyone back individually, but it's been a crazy week so far.)
At the suggestion of Paul Yorke I plan to compile all of the answers
I recieve both privately and on the board, and post it back to the
group.

I'm glad I posted my question in the first place, because I have
already recieved a lot of useful information. The last time I had a
bad transformer was for my late 70's/ early 80's Lionel set and the
answer was simple then, just go out and buy a new one. As I'm finding
out the answer is not quite as simple this time.

Actually the first thing I did after getting the trains is to do as
much research online as I could, and I must say that information on
powering American Flyers is hard to find. (other than some very good
information on checking to make sure they are in functional
condition.) Most everything else I needed to find out I was able to
find online. That coupled with a friend who has a couple of old
Greenberg's books and an original manual (although his manual is
about 10 years newer than this train) meant that I was able to get
things running with relative ease. (although a good bit of elbow
grease)

In any event anyone other information on the subject will be welcomed
and assuming that things die down by early next week, you can all
expect a compiled list sometime around then. If you sent information
via the board, I will be attributing your information to you. If you
sent it privately but not on the board, I will likely be contacting
you before doing so.

Thanks again
Luis

ps. I apologize for any poor spelling. Didn't have much time and was
typing quickly.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22244 From: Dan Brindell Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: Re: replacement transformer
Thanks, Tom. These are very good points that you make. When I wrote that
Flyer steamers require 3 amps or 45 watts, I was thinking of the motor only.
If one is thinking of operating smoke units, switches, accessories, etc.,
then I agree that 100 watts is the bare minimum. So that would leave us
with a choice between the MRC "Pure Power AC" model and a used Flyer
transformer. Again, I don't think there is too much need to worry about the
old transformers, as they were quite well built. I do think it is
worthwhile to open them up and check for problems such as cracked cords or
homegrown modifications, and maybe replacing the carbon roller (if so
equipped). If one is not comfortable doing this oneself, then a reputable
dealer is the best way to go.

Dan B.

----- Original Message -----
From: <jarcho@...>
To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 11:02 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] replacement transformer


> Dan, I think you underestimate the power requirements of a Gilbert Flyer
train.
>
> In my experience, most Flyer trains from the three digit period need at
> least 75 watts to perform well. You need to consider the motor, lights,
> smoke unit, reverse unit, all draw power and are not new. Plus there is
> some power loss through the track, unless you want to attach eight million
> feeder wires to same. Double motor diesels and larger metal steam locos
> require more. Gilbert recommended a minimum of a 100 watt transformer for
> these, and that has proved to be a correct extimate in my view. A 100
watt
> transformer is the minimum I would consider for Gilbert Flyer, unless I
> were running a small plastic loco around a small loop. For double motor
> diesels and large steamers, I would recommend a 175 watt transformer or
> more.
>
> The Baldwin, handcar, docksider, Casey Jones, and other 5 digit items,
> including the large steamers, use less power and in fact can be damaged by
> the largest Flyer transformers. If you just give them the power they need
> to run, and service them when they get sluggish instead of applying more
> juice, they should be all right.
>
> Tom Jarcho.
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22245 From: John Foley Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: Virus
Hi Folks
Thanks to all the folks who replied with excellent advice
about viruses. I did learn not to ask to be removed anymore.
Thanks again
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 22246 From: lampert5@earthlink.net Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: A Storey about A.C. Gilbert
If you are interested, 'THE MAN WHO SAVED XMAS'
will be on CBS this Sunday Dec. 15,2002 at 9 ET/PT time.
A storey about A.C. Gilbert....
This new heartwarming drama, based on the life of innovative inventor
and toymaker A.C. Gilbert, tells the true story of how one man helped a
country at war rediscover the joy of the holiday season.
Check out the web site
http://www.cbs.com/primetime/movies_specials/mas_man_who_saved_christmas.shtml

Aaron


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22247 From: allan V EISENHAUR Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: Digest
Happy Holidays to the Group.

Is there a problem with yahoo as I haven't received any digest since 12/9
digest # 1670.

Thanks Al

________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 22248 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: Re: A Storey about A.C. Gilbert
Just as I posted about a month ago, Jason Alexander was on the CBS Letterman show last night, ostensibly to hawk his upcoming CBS AC Gilbert special. I tuned in a little late and it seemed as though they were more interested in talking about how "wonderful" Alexander is, rather than the special. They finally got around to mentioning it at the end. I didn't see a trailer. I hope this isn't an omen.

Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: lampert5@...
To: S-Scale@egroups ; s-trains@egroups ; S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 12:01 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] A Storey about A.C. Gilbert


If you are interested, 'THE MAN WHO SAVED XMAS'
will be on CBS this Sunday Dec. 15,2002 at 9 ET/PT time.
A storey about A.C. Gilbert....
This new heartwarming drama, based on the life of innovative inventor
and toymaker A.C. Gilbert, tells the true story of how one man helped a
country at war rediscover the joy of the holiday season.
Check out the web site
http://www.cbs.com/primetime/movies_specials/mas_man_who_saved_christmas.shtml

Aaron


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22249 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: Re: replacement transformer
Check the link off Paul Yorke's web site for testing a transformer before plugging it in as well as putting it in phase with the other transformers on your layout. I believe there is similar advice on Doug's site at Portlines Hobby.

Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Brindell
To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com ; jarcho@...
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] replacement transformer


Thanks, Tom. These are very good points that you make. When I wrote that
Flyer steamers require 3 amps or 45 watts, I was thinking of the motor only.
If one is thinking of operating smoke units, switches, accessories, etc.,
then I agree that 100 watts is the bare minimum. So that would leave us
with a choice between the MRC "Pure Power AC" model and a used Flyer
transformer. Again, I don't think there is too much need to worry about the
old transformers, as they were quite well built. I do think it is
worthwhile to open them up and check for problems such as cracked cords or
homegrown modifications, and maybe replacing the carbon roller (if so
equipped). If one is not comfortable doing this oneself, then a reputable
dealer is the best way to go.

Dan B.

----- Original Message -----
From: <jarcho@...>
To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 11:02 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] replacement transformer


> Dan, I think you underestimate the power requirements of a Gilbert Flyer
train.
>
> In my experience, most Flyer trains from the three digit period need at
> least 75 watts to perform well. You need to consider the motor, lights,
> smoke unit, reverse unit, all draw power and are not new. Plus there is
> some power loss through the track, unless you want to attach eight million
> feeder wires to same. Double motor diesels and larger metal steam locos
> require more. Gilbert recommended a minimum of a 100 watt transformer for
> these, and that has proved to be a correct extimate in my view. A 100
watt
> transformer is the minimum I would consider for Gilbert Flyer, unless I
> were running a small plastic loco around a small loop. For double motor
> diesels and large steamers, I would recommend a 175 watt transformer or
> more.
>
> The Baldwin, handcar, docksider, Casey Jones, and other 5 digit items,
> including the large steamers, use less power and in fact can be damaged by
> the largest Flyer transformers. If you just give them the power they need
> to run, and service them when they get sluggish instead of applying more
> juice, they should be all right.
>
> Tom Jarcho.
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22250 From: roberte613@aol.com Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: Re: Replacement Transformer
I use a lot of vintage gilbert power, 30B, 18B etc, BUT I did buy an MTH
Z4000 2 years ago, and I must say it performs beautifully and has an easy
walk-around remote option.

Happy Holidays
Robert E.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22251 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert film
Jason Alexander appeared on the Howard Stern show to promote this movie. He
never mentioned A.C. Gilbert, just referred to him as the "guy who invented
the Erector set." Never mentioned Flyer either. Did talk about girls and
sex, but, that's just Howard.

CZ
Group: S-Trains Message: 22252 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: link coupler device
Didn't someone once make a little device that would keep AF cars with link
couplers coupled together? Is it still available?

Thanks.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 22253 From: Robert E. Yablonski Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1671
Hi all,

I am looking for a SHS 2002 Xmas car.

Anyone know where I can buy one?

Robert E. Yablonski
Group: S-Trains Message: 22254 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: Re: replacement transformer
TMCC is an excellent Idea..

You can use the "Cab-1" Remote controller and several Powermaster modules,
up to nine I think, that will allow you wireless control of 9 conventional
engine blocks . You can us a Lionel Powerhouse module or any transformer
that puts out 14-18 volts with sufficient wattage on the accessory terminals
to power the Powermaster modules. TMCC Powermaster modules are fully
compatible with the LTI/American Flyer Railsounds Bell and Horn. This does
not require any modification to the Locos but if you decide later to go
whole hog and convert some of your engines to "Command Mode" with a TMCC
receiver in them you can add a Command Base and power it with the same
transformer.

I have this set up with both conventional and Command Mode A.F. engines on
my layout all powered with a MTH Z-4000 (which also has a remote wireless
control available).

If you are curious here is a link that explains TMCC.
http://www.coilcouplers.com/tmc/tmc.html

Big boys and their S gauge toys...

Carl

-----Original Message-----
From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas) [mailto:trobicha@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:13 AM
To: 'rbubeck327@...'; robin@...; jarcho@...
Cc: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [S-Trains] replacement transformer


Yo:

One could even take the next step and use Lionel's TMCC, in conventional
mode. This would give you wireless control. No reason why this would not
work.

Tommy

-----Original Message-----
From: rbubeck327@... [mailto:rbubeck327@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:08 AM
To: robin@...; jarcho@...
Cc: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] replacement transformer


In a message dated 12/11/2002 1:47:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,
robin@... writes:

> When customers call looking for the next
> bigger transformer to operate their AF and our stuff too (even scale DCC)
> we
> recommend vintage AC Gilbert AF transformers.

This is how I run my stuff both old and new, too. An alternative to
consider,
if one wants a new power source and has the money to spend, is the new
Lionel
ZW, which runs Flyer well and runs Flyonel better than the vintage Gilbert
supplies. The whistle and bell buttons are useful for new Flyer and the
314AW, too.

RB


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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s-trains-unsubscribe@...

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22255 From: aglorince Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: train show pittsburgh, pa
there will be a train show on sunday dec 15 at sheardon four points
hotel pittsburgh north on pa route 19 in warrendale ( sometimes
called mars)
i will be there with american models ho and some ho.
andy lorince
Group: S-Trains Message: 22256 From: William Lange Date: 12/11/2002
Subject: 2 Trains on 1 loop
I've seen several devices that allow you to run 2 trains on one loop
like the AF 26671 Track Trip or RFG's 1202.

Any advice on the best way to do this? It would make m Christmas layout
much more exciting!

Thanks

Bill Lange



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22257 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Train Show Saturday
There is a NEW, first time Train Show in Millersville PA, on Saturday the
14th. It is being held at and by St Phillips Catholic Church, Men's Class.
St Phillips is at the
intersection of PA Rts 999 and 741. Time is 9 AM to 2 PM. Space may still
be available, contact Chris Sauer at 717-898-6618 or e-mail
"mstp741@..."
Jim Lyle




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22258 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Baggage loader
Thanks for the help with the loader noise. Any suggestions as to how
to better move the "Packages" down the chute of the baggage loader?
And exactly what should be on the chute? What did the loader come
with when first shipped? Just curious,John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22259 From: louis glumac Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Re: train show pittsburgh, pa
hi andy,,,, i will be there to,selling off some extra stuff,,if anyone is
close to that area stop by, i always enjoy that show,,,usually find some
good stuff there,,,,,,i will be there with my 25 year old daughter if
anyone stops bye say hi, thanks lou
----- Original Message -----
From: <alorince@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 9:43 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] train show pittsburgh, pa


> there will be a train show on sunday dec 15 at sheardon four points
> hotel pittsburgh north on pa route 19 in warrendale ( sometimes
> called mars)
> i will be there with american models ho and some ho.
> andy lorince
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22260 From: afsgauge@aol.com Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: AC Gilbert Show
Here is an address to see the CBS promo for the show including clip out
takes. It looks like it should be a pretty good program to plan to watch.

http://www.cbs.com/primetime/movies_specials/mas_man_who_saved_christmas.shtml


<A HREF="http://www.cbs.com/primetime/movies_specials/mas_man_who_saved_christmas.shtml">CBS promo</A>

John


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22261 From: Roy Plotnick Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Re: link coupler device
At
>Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 14:36:52 -0500
> From: jarcho@...
>Subject: link coupler device
>
>Didn't someone once make a little device that would keep AF cars with link
>couplers coupled together? Is it still available?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Tom Jarcho
Dave Garrigues made them and I believe they are still available from him .
-Roy Plotnick
Group: S-Trains Message: 22262 From: Jim Armstrong Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: "Device" for Keepin link couplers hooked together
The best little device I've ever found was the small rubber bands that are sold at drug stores, used for girls' pigtails and such. Just hook one on one coupler pin, swing it over the top of the couplers and drop it over the other pin. Works like a champ (except no automatic uncoupling)! JimA


Message: 7
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 14:36:52 -0500
From: jarcho@...
Subject: link coupler device

Didn't someone once make a little device that would keep AF cars with link
couplers coupled together? Is it still available?

Thanks.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 22263 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Re: "Device" for Keepin link couplers hooked together
I would be skeptical of any device that would prevent link couplers from separating. The links must be free to move laterally across the bar, as well as vertically (up & down). IMHO, the BEST way to prevent links for uncoupling is to meticulously make sure the track lies flat and there are no appreciable dips - such as the transition to or from grade. I often remove the links and ream out the holes with a round file, then reattach to the bar. The links must be free to move up & down. What sometimes happens is, a link will move up on a dip and stay there if it isn't free to fall back down. This dis-engages the cars. Again, IMHO, there is absolutely no reason why link couplers can't work as smoothly as the best knuckle couplers, if maintained well and adjusted correctly. So far as I know, they worked well when they left the factory 50 years ago. Why not just restore them back to spec.

Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Armstrong
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 1:40 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] "Device" for Keepin link couplers hooked together


The best little device I've ever found was the small rubber bands that are sold at drug stores, used for girls' pigtails and such. Just hook one on one coupler pin, swing it over the top of the couplers and drop it over the other pin. Works like a champ (except no automatic uncoupling)! JimA


Message: 7
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 14:36:52 -0500
From: jarcho@...
Subject: link coupler device

Didn't someone once make a little device that would keep AF cars with link
couplers coupled together? Is it still available?

Thanks.

Tom Jarcho




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22264 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Caig Final
I have 81 checks. I ordered 7 cases of 12 jars. That's 84. I'm sure there
are at least 3 checks still making their way through the postal system. If
there are more, earliest postmark wins.

Here are the ones I have now:
Donald P. Abrams
Scott A. Adams
Steve Allen
James B. Armstrong
David A. Avedesian
Dennis L. Back
Robert V. Belyea
Malcolm R. Berger
Robert M. Blackson
Stephen F. Blancard
Richard L. Blanding
Barry H. Bley
Roy K. Bock
Jonathan W. Bonds
Eric R. Boudreau
Donald F. Brace
Edward J. Burshnick
Ted J. Calcut
James T. Carnes
Foster B. Cooper III
Gerald M. Dzara
Paul M. Finerty
Joel Fugazzotto
Alfred T. Galli
Dennis J. Gold
J. Douglas Gordon
Charles L. Grover III
Phil Gurile
Joseph Haenn
James N. Heikkala
James G. Herdt
Raymond M. Hobin
Ron L. Inscho
Ronald Jacobek
Thomas Jarcho
Barbara A. Jones
Ken Keki
Chad C. Kono
Joseph F. Korczynski, Jr.
Phil Kosin
Joseph H. Lechner
James J. Lott
Patrick A. Maher
Michael J. Maloney
Lester H. Mathis
Michael S. McConnell
Wallace D. McLean
Ernest Mennecke
Charles L. Messinger Jr.
Ronald S. Morris
Alan F. Nash
James J. Nicholson
Jacques H. Ollivier
Douglas Peck
Roger V. Petrella
Stephen L. Radakovits
Stuart W. Rankin
Russell A. Rawling
Stanley F. Rinkunas
Donald E. Rodems
Donald J. Rosa
Art Shifrin
Joseph M. Shirrell
Arthur Shor
Jack R. Sink
Robert A. Taylor
Dr. Russell E. Trahan, Jr.
David L. Tyner
Christopher Uchrin
Alan C. Udy
Roger B. Walton
David G. Wecker
James Weide
Gregory F. Weselak
David F. White
James W. Whitlock
Darryl Woods
Roy P. Yost
Raymond E. Zawislak
Paul S. Zelinger
William J. Zide


Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 22265 From: Neil A Becker Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Replacement Transformer & CBS Movie
My .02

For engines I use original AF transformers on one layout and MRC Dual 027 on
another. Both are High Rail.

The layout that uses AF transformers requires one transformer for each track
loop and a transformer for lights, switches and other accessories for good
performance.

The layout which uses the MRC transformers never is used above 40% of power
to operate trains (only original AF (without sound), later AM and SHS are
run). Original AF transformers are used for switches and accessories.

Many track power feeds are used to reduce the loss through the original AF high rail track.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22266 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Caig Communications
Susan Prenatt of Caig answered my e-mail with this:
>Given the holiday schedule, and that this order will be custom blended with
>copper particles, you are looking at the first week of January for a ship
>date.

How do you like that? We ordered so much, we're getting our own batch!

Oh, no! Don't actually USE the stuff. Keep it, in it's original container
AND the original shipping box. It was a limited run of only 84 containers,
shipped in January of 2003. The name on the label matches one of the names
on the original dated e-mail list! E-Bay, can you hear me calling you???
$500 reserve. Yes!

BTW: I actually have enough hypodermic syringes (I counted them) to send one
to everyone on the list. Refresher: it's not for the Caig paste. It's for
oiling and for smoke fluid. I have a variety of needles, 16 ga. thru 22 ga.
It comes as it comes. The tubes are plastic and I don't what deleterious
effects these chemicals will have on them. As usual, test an inconspicuous
area first.

These hypos are a free bonus but you may not want one for some religious or
moral reason. If so, let me know. No requests for "16 gauge, please".
You gets the one I grab next. And no junkies. If you have track marks in
your arms that weren't caused by carrying track in a shortsleeve shirt,
forget it! No hypo for you!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 22267 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: link couplers
Thanks to all for the replies. Very helpful.

Tim, there is a very good reason why link couplers are not as likely to
work well as knuckle couplers. Link couplers were made of acetate plastic
with a stearic acid mold release agent mixed into it. The acetate plastic
has shrunk considerably over time, especially with the migration of the
stearic acid to the surface (that white stuff). Knuckle couplers were
made of styrene which is only now beginning to shrink very slightly
sometimes. In short, link couplers tend to shrink around their pins and
bind, and coupler knuckles do not tend to shrink around their rivets, but
move freely.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 22268 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Re: Baggage loader
The packages should "shoot" down the chute from the force of the man throwing them down. If they don't, then perhaps you need to connect the device to a transformer with a higher voltage output (30b), or use a 14 gauge stranded wire to run your power leads (if the leads are longer than a couple feet) so there isn't as much line drop of voltage. If that doesn't help, maybe the coil needs rewound (my last resort). Keep the chute clean, a little furniture paste wax may help, wiped back off after it hardens. I would first do all my testing with the loader connected directly to a testing transformer on my work bench with short power leads. It's amazing how fast switches will snap doing a bench test, and how poorly they sometimes work on the layout. That is why I recommend a heavier gauge wire on the layout to conduct current better for a longer distance. After I got it working good, I'd see how it works on the layout, in it's place.

Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: John Brockmann <hcopter51@...>
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 9:57 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Baggage loader


Thanks for the help with the loader noise. Any suggestions as to how
to better move the "Packages" down the chute of the baggage loader?
And exactly what should be on the chute? What did the loader come
with when first shipped? Just curious,John B.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22269 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Re: link couplers
Hi Tom,

I believe that plastic shrinkage can be remedied by removing the link, reaming out the hole a little and re-connecting it to the pin so it rotates freely again. I have done just that lots of times with splendid results. Most of the time I can reuse the link bar. I also clean the plastic link very thoroughly, removing all the white residue until it looks pretty new again. I run a lot of original link cars and after I do the above maintenance, they work just fine. Don't know how long that will last - maybe another 50 years?

Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: jarcho@...
To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 6:02 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] link couplers


Thanks to all for the replies. Very helpful.

Tim, there is a very good reason why link couplers are not as likely to
work well as knuckle couplers. Link couplers were made of acetate plastic
with a stearic acid mold release agent mixed into it. The acetate plastic
has shrunk considerably over time, especially with the migration of the
stearic acid to the surface (that white stuff). Knuckle couplers were
made of styrene which is only now beginning to shrink very slightly
sometimes. In short, link couplers tend to shrink around their pins and
bind, and coupler knuckles do not tend to shrink around their rivets, but
move freely.

Tom Jarcho



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22270 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: 770 loading platform
You can put something under the edge of the accessory farthest from the
track to tilt it slightly and increase the downhill slope of the ramp.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 22271 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Re: 770 loading platform
Good one! I do the same thing with my Flyer sawmill to help the lumber slide out. I also think that lumber made from hardwood would work best. Does anybody have any experience on EXACTLY what kind of wood to use for the lumber planks?

Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: jarcho@...
To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 6:22 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] 770 loading platform


You can put something under the edge of the accessory farthest from the
track to tilt it slightly and increase the downhill slope of the ramp.

Tom Jarcho



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22272 From: Jim Armstrong Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: 501T set dilemma
Well, this was a good week, landing a couple of boxed sets. But the 501t
SET poses a sort of problem. The 302 loco was converted over to knuckle
couplers (yep, that's plural!). Sure, I can replace the cars with link
couplers and retro the tender coupler. The issue is that the loco has a
fairly workmanship-like front coupler setup. My question is, izzat of
more value to someone as is? Or, should I just convert it back? Whatcha
think? JimA
Group: S-Trains Message: 22273 From: rpd5@aol.com Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Connector for Link Couplers
Dave Garrigues sells a strip of about ten connectors (little plastic pieces
with two holes in them) that slip over the pins on the link couplers as you
couple them. Price at a show I think was $1.00. Sorry but I don't have any
address for Dave. He lives in the Chicago area.

Roger Delthony


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22274 From: pushpinss Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop
Has anyone tried doing this. Has anyone used the AF 26671 or the RFG
1202?

--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, William Lange <blange3@c...> wrote:
> I've seen several devices that allow you to run 2 trains on one loop
> like the AF 26671 Track Trip or RFG's 1202.
>
> Any advice on the best way to do this? It would make m Christmas
layout
> much more exciting!
>
> Thanks
>
> Bill Lange
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22275 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Re: 501T set dilemma
Jim...Depends on the condition...maybe someone wants to swap with
you.....Tell me more about the engine....might be interested....Bob Conner
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Armstrong" <jarmstro@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 6:29 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] 501T set dilemma


> Well, this was a good week, landing a couple of boxed sets. But the 501t
> SET poses a sort of problem. The 302 loco was converted over to knuckle
> couplers (yep, that's plural!). Sure, I can replace the cars with link
> couplers and retro the tender coupler. The issue is that the loco has a
> fairly workmanship-like front coupler setup. My question is, izzat of
> more value to someone as is? Or, should I just convert it back? Whatcha
> think? JimA
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22276 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Re: 770 loading platform
Don't forget to make sure it is slick....the ramp..I think there is A
product that sprays on to make things sliker...not oil....Also you might put
A small chip of "speed" in the mans mouth!!!! Bob

BTW....You know when A womans on Speed?

"She folds her dirty laundry"......( I caught one of my ex girlfriends doing
just that !!! )( I also used to give her A pair of nail clippers....let her
mow to front yard...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 22277 From: John G Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Melting Plastic from engine's headlight light bulbs
I just bought a # 499 New Haven engine.

When I removed the plastic shell, I noticed that there was slight
melting of the plastic above each of the headlamp light bulbs. The
melting was not enough to disfigure the external plastic (at least so
far).

Is there any remedy to mitigate this? I was considering gluing a
small piece of heavy tin foil in the area to dissipate the heat.

John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 22278 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Re: Melting Plastic from engine's headlight light bulbs
Make sure you're using the correct bulb. Does anyone have any experience
with the recommended lamp doing this?

"John G " wrote:
>
> I just bought a # 499 New Haven engine.
>
> When I removed the plastic shell, I noticed that there was slight
> melting of the plastic above each of the headlamp light bulbs. The
> melting was not enough to disfigure the external plastic (at least so
> far).
>
> Is there any remedy to mitigate this? I was considering gluing a
> small piece of heavy tin foil in the area to dissipate the heat.
>
> John Gasal
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 22279 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: melting plastic from engine's headlight bulb
I believe Gilbert discovered the hard way that there should be a piece of
aluminum foil over each headlight in the New Haven electrics. The 499
didn't have them, but its successor, the 21573, did.

Cut pieces from an aluminum takeout food container to fit inside the hoods
over the bulbs. Glue them in place with dots of silicone (the sealer, not
the WD-40.)

Always use 18 volt bulbs in diesels, especially GP-7s, and New Haven
electrics. These run cooler than the 14 volt ones. Try to find the old
1447 bulbs, which are shorter than the current imports.

Blatant commercial: I can repair most bulb damage to plastic bodies.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 22280 From: Jim Armstrong Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: 302 loco followon question
I've found that the tender trucks on my newly-acquired 302 are worn
enough that the frames drag, and that has to be fixed before it will
operate satisfactorily.

I've put bushings in cast truck sideframes in the past to remedy this
problem. But, these are sheet metal. Any suggestions? Jim Armstrong
Group: S-Trains Message: 22281 From: David Dewey Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert film
He also appeared on the David Letterman show and talked about everything
else until the last two minutes of the two-commercial long interview. I
think it got about 20 seconds of time! And I stayed up late to see
THAT???!!! AAAUGH!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22282 From: David Dewey Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Re: 770 loading platform
Tim,
My original ACG ones look like maple, and appear very smooth, maybe even
waxed! I have made replacements from birch and maple, work better than the
LTI or even MTH lumber.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22283 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Christmas car Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1672
There were two of these cars sitting on the shelf at
Chesterfield Hobbies, Midlothian, VA last Saturday,
December 7th. Here's their web address:

http://www.chesterfieldhobbies.com/

Good luck! --- Nick


>Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 16:59:22 -0800
> From: "Robert E. Yablonski" <yabo@...>
>Subject: RE: Digest Number 1671
>
>
>
>Hi all,
>
>I am looking for a SHS 2002 Xmas car.
>
>Anyone know where I can buy one?
>
>Robert E. Yablonski
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22284 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 12/12/2002
Subject: Sawmill Lumber
Tim, the paddles you get to stir a gallon of paint are usually a hardwood,
maple in our area, and make great sawmill lumber. The thickness is correct
on the thinner paddles and cut into strips 7/16" by 2 13/16" will work well
in the sawmill. Sand all sides with a fine grade sandpaper, 220, until very
smooth. These have worked well even in the basement humidity. Good Luck
and best to all. Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 22285 From: David Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: Melting Plastic from engine's headlight light bulbs
The foil shield will definitely help. I believe that Gilbert sent
those locos out with a #1449 14V bulb installed. Swap that out for a
#1447 18V lamp which burn duller with less heat. This problem is also
common with the GP locos as well.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22286 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Train America Studios
I just sent this note to Train America Studios, the makers of the Cab
control devices we would need in using TMCC. Their site is fascinating and
helpful, but it falls a little short. These were my suggestions:
Chris Zizzo
_______________________________________________________

Sirs:
Recent discussions on the S-Trains mail list have been positive with respect
to using TMCC or the new MTH system to enhance control of our 2-rail AC
hi-rail trains. Many of our locomotives are older American Flyer universal
motors. Newer Flyer as well as the engines made by S-Helper Service and
American Models usually use DC motors with a rectifier. Our preferred track
power is 17VAC.

Our list is comprised of approximately 600 members. I am constantly
surprised when I meet S-gaugers in my travels and they tell me they don't
subscribe to the list. The S market is far larger than most manufacturers
realize. Large production runs of cars and locos frequently sell out
because of underestimation by the makers. S-Gauge now has its own category
in E-Bay, and I find modern S-gauge rolling stock on the shelves of even
small Mom & Pop hobby stores in out of the way locations.

Your website seems like it could be the clearinghouse for an S-gauge foray
into TMCC. Since none of our engines come equipped for command operation,
we would need to buy it all from you. We can buy the basics off the shelf
anywhere, but we would need the UCUBs and UCABs and any other materials you
might deem necessary.

Here is what I am asking you to do. Please address S-Gauge in your website.
As you have set up 0 3-rail and 0 2-rail and G, please set up a section for
S. To me, 0 2-rail means DC operation. For S-Scalers, who use DC, this
info would be useful, though most use DCC. For S-Hi-Railers, AC operations
in 2 rail may change some of the parameters, and you will need to address
this.

A little research and a bit of repurposing of your existing inventory to our
needs, as well as adding a few pages to your website, is all that would be
required for you to open a new market segment for your fine products.

I look forward to your reply and I trust you will take my suggestions to
heart.

Thank you,

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 22287 From: rodgers_carl Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop
I've used both, with good results. They both hook up the same way.
The RFG is solid state with a fuse, while the AF will burn out if you
get a de-railment and done cut the power.

Carl


--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, William Lange <blange3@c...> wrote:
> I've seen several devices that allow you to run 2 trains on one loop
> like the AF 26671 Track Trip or RFG's 1202.
>
> Any advice on the best way to do this? It would make m Christmas
layout
> much more exciting!
>
> Thanks
>
> Bill Lange
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22288 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop
Ok, how does the track trip allow you to run two trains on the same
loop? John B.



--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "rodgers_carl <rodgers_carl@h...>"
<rodgers_carl@h...> wrote:
> I've used both, with good results. They both hook up the same way.
> The RFG is solid state with a fuse, while the AF will burn out if
you
> get a de-railment and done cut the power.
>
> Carl
>
>
> --- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, William Lange <blange3@c...> wrote:
> > I've seen several devices that allow you to run 2 trains on one
loop
> > like the AF 26671 Track Trip or RFG's 1202.
> >
> > Any advice on the best way to do this? It would make m Christmas
> layout
> > much more exciting!
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Bill Lange
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22289 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: Transformer phasing
Roger Petrella says:
> I was looking through some of the archived messages and found a bunch on
> transformer phasing with your name on them. Would you please tell me why
> you would need more than one transformer on a layout for operation of the
> trains themselves (I understand why you may need additional for
> accessories, lights, etc.)? If there are separate transformers in
> different electrically isolated sections of the layout, does that mean you
> have to change over to using a different transformer to run the train in
> each section? Wouldn't this get confusing? Is there a way to have one
> large layout in one continuous loop with several transformers to give it
> more available power?
_________________________________________________________

Roger:
It never occurred to me that someone would ask this, and it's a good
question. With your permission, I would like to post your question and my
answer for the S-Trains group to discuss. Please let me know if that's OK
with you.

Using multiple transformers to control isolated sections, or blocks, of
track does imply separate transformer control in those blocks. I don't
think it would be all that confusing for the practiced operator unless you
were running a half dozen trains on the same loop and had to watch them all
yourself. For one or two train operation, there should be no problem, and
when some friends are over for a session, many more trains could be run.

In this case, each operator would have control over his block. By varying
the voltage, this "block operator" would be signalling the invisible
engineers of trains in his block to follow orders as to speed and direction,
stopping and going. If a second train entered the block, both trains would
receive the same orders.

Recently, on the S-Trains list, discussions have pointed out the advantages
of Lionel TMCC for operation in Hi-Rail S gauge. For the operator who has
broken his layout down into power blacks using several phased transformers,
TMCC is a no-brainer installation. In full command mode you can switch the
track power from the variable voltage post to the fixed voltage post as it
will no longer be varied. Secondly, in operation, the block operator
disappears and you become the engineer.

As you drive your train through each block, control remains in your hands.
Other trains operate independently, either under the control of other
engineers, or under your control from a second remote. You can also get a
train started, then on the same remote, choose another, get it started, then
revert to the first for fine tuning, then back again. Get six trains going
and you had better be paying attention!

The advantage of all the transformers is power, lots of it! Asking a 30B to
power 75 -100 feet of track length may be OK, but asking it to handle 15-20
feet is no sweat. Trains run smoothly, all lights blazing, and as soon as a
second train enters the power block, the first one is on it's way out to
another unloaded transformer. Smooth transitions from block to block are
achieved with proper phasing. I won't go into phasing here as you have
already read that material, except to say this won't work without it.

Could you, without using TMCC, utilize several transformers in one layout
and keep control centralized? Well, yes, but it ain't pretty. You could
buy a big variac of 1000 watts, or better, 2000 watts, and plug the
transformer power strip into it. This would lower the voltage input to all
transformers uniformly. The theoretical result would be a uniform output
voltage drop. Thus you could control train speed through all blocks from 1
rheostatic type control. Others on this list have offered variacs as a
solution before.

Here is the big problem with this approach. Know the power law. (Volts
times Amps = Power; VA=W. Power is usually expressed in Watts, although
recent practice for transformers and other inductive circuits is to use VA,
VoltAmps) Voltage and current are inverse values. A given transformer
rated in VA (Watts, kinda) does not change its power requirement, which
means, Watts (the Volts X Amps product) remains a constant. If you drop the
voltage, you increase the amperage proportionately. At only a few volts
output from the variac, the input lines, the power strip, the 50 year old
transformer primaries, would all be subjected to enormously high currents,
well above their rated capacity. Well, actually, the fuse or breaker in the
power strip would blow first (hopefully.)

Variacs are best used to regulate line voltage. If your appliances require
120 volts to operate and your line is 125VAC, you can use a variac to adjust
it. It works the other way too. A low line can be raised to as much as
106% of value using a 2K variac. (Some 1K's are equipped with this feature
as well.) One good use of variacs is to set limits on the maximum secondary
output of your train transformers. Setting a slightly lower line voltage,
say 110VAC, will reduce the maximum output of a Lionel ZW and make it more
American Models friendly. The power law still applies, but within
acceptable limits. These transformers were designed to be operated on
anything from 107VAC to 125VAC and with a safety margin beyond that. As
they get older and the insulation dries out, those margins start to narrow.
Use a variac to control train speed from 0 to Notch 8 and you will soon see
how narrow.

Train America Studios just announced the release of their UCUB II and UCUB
compatible with Railsounds. These items may make TMCC and the MTH Command
system much more desirable for S-Gaugers. Go to www.tastudios.com/ and read
up on it yourself. I think you might have an answer here.

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 22290 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Black Power
While the enfranchisement of minorities continues to bring racial harmony
throughout the land, my use of the phrase "power blacks" was nothing more
than a boo-boo. It should, of course, read as "power blocks". (And that
got through two, count 'em, two proof-reads!)

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 22291 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: 770 loading platform
Thanks to all for the suggestions. Does anyone know exactly
what "Packages" are supposed to be on the chute? John B.

--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "robert allen conner" <rcon7@b...>
wrote:
> Don't forget to make sure it is slick....the ramp..I think there is
A
> product that sprays on to make things sliker...not oil....Also you
might put
> A small chip of "speed" in the mans mouth!!!! Bob
>
> BTW....You know when A womans on Speed?
>
> "She folds her dirty laundry"......( I caught one of my ex
girlfriends doing
> just that !!! )( I also used to give her A pair of nail
clippers....let her
> mow to front yard...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 22292 From: rodgers_carl Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop
It's really simple and both are done the same way. You start by using
fibre pins to divide the loop into three blocks. Then you hook the
appropriate wires to each section. One engine controls the other
engine like a domino, so they can't catch up to each other. One
section of the loop is a (on off) block, another is the block that
controls it and the remainder is a free section. The RFG unit comes
with a diagram and instructions for that and other things.




--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "John Brockmann <hcopter51@a...>"
<hcopter51@a...> wrote:
> Ok, how does the track trip allow you to run two trains on the same
> loop? John B.
>
>
>
> --- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "rodgers_carl <rodgers_carl@h...>"
> <rodgers_carl@h...> wrote:
> > I've used both, with good results. They both hook up the same
way.
> > The RFG is solid state with a fuse, while the AF will burn out if
> you
> > get a de-railment and done cut the power.
> >
> > Carl
> >
> >
> > --- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, William Lange <blange3@c...>
wrote:
> > > I've seen several devices that allow you to run 2 trains on one
> loop
> > > like the AF 26671 Track Trip or RFG's 1202.
> > >
> > > Any advice on the best way to do this? It would make m
Christmas
> > layout
> > > much more exciting!
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Bill Lange
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22293 From: rodgers_carl Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: Sawmill Lumber
You can do the same thing with a 2x4 and a band saw, plainer and
about 10 hours work. But wait, why eliminate the growing and cutting
down of the tree? Or you could call your AF parts dealer and with the
extra time you've saved, find a good substitute for electricity.

Is it any wonder there are't more "S" Manufacturers?




--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, Charlie&Edith <Chancock@m...> wrote:
> Tim, the paddles you get to stir a gallon of paint are usually a
hardwood,
> maple in our area, and make great sawmill lumber. The thickness is
correct
> on the thinner paddles and cut into strips 7/16" by 2 13/16" will
work well
> in the sawmill. Sand all sides with a fine grade sandpaper, 220,
until very
> smooth. These have worked well even in the basement humidity.
Good Luck
> and best to all. Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 22294 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: TA Studios
I already got a reply from Mike Reagan, President of TA Studios.
I will quote from it, but not in its entirety, as he said some things in
confidence and asked me to not repeat them. Pretty exciting already, eh?

Chris Zizzo
_____________________________________________________

Chris,
I understand your position and agree with you entirely. The problem here is
that we have just announced the O 2-Rail and G 2-Rail products as of June.
The demand for this is overwhelming. . . . Once we have [dealt with this
demand] we do in fact plan on addressing the S gauge market.

You must remember that it is not as simple as just updating or creating new
pages on the site, but there is an extensive amount of time and effort that
goes into testing, instruction writing, and so many other facets . . ..

As I said, we do plan on addressing the S gauge and scale markets in 2003.
Please check the site out from time to time as you will eventually see the S
gauge products you are so looking forward to.

Thank you for your suggestions.
Mike Reagan
President, TAStudios
Group: S-Trains Message: 22295 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: NY Times article, Today's issue
Andrew Jugle, mentioned in the article, posts regularly on the Toytrains
list.
Chris Z.



ANTIQUES
A Perfect Toy for a Nation of Inventors
By WENDY MOONAN


Introduced nearly a century ago, the Erector set was the new toy for a new
age. Initially packed in sturdy red wooden boxes, Erector sets included
tools, equipment (screws, nuts and bolts and steel girders) and all the
plans that boys needed to construct models of sleek planes, streamlined
trains, steamboats and modern skyscrapers.

A. C. Gilbert (1884-1961), the visionary who produced the Erector set in
1913, was not the first man to make such kits. Toy manufacturers like
Meccano in England began making metal construction kits in 1901, and
companies in Germany, Italy and France soon followed them. Nonetheless, in
no other country was the metal construction kit such a hit.

"Between 1913 and 1966, Gilbert sold more than 30 million Erector sets,
earning its nickname as `the world's greatest toy,' "Bruce Watson writes in
his new biography of Gilbert: "The Man Who Changed How Boys and Toys Were
Made: The Life and Times of A. C. Gilbert, the Man Who Saved Christmas"
(Viking, 2002, $24.95). "But it's hard to consider it a toy."

Noel Barrett, president of the Antique Toy Collectors of America and a
frequent guest on "Antiques Roadshow" on television, said: "Erector sets
come from a time when kids could spend a lot more time working on toys.
Construction with an Erector set is not easy; it's tedious work. But it's a
classic toy, from a time when toys really taught planning."

L. Andrew Jugle is a Midwestern collector who owns enough old Erector sets
to fill up a tractor trailer, which he does when he wants to take his
collection to a convention or a collectors' meeting. His Erector archive
includes old ads, manuals, photos, letters and other materials.

"Gilbert built toys you could learn something from even if you didn't
realize it," he said. "Gilbert was making toys for kids 10 to 15 years old.
No one does that anymore because kids are adults at age 11 now." (A
television review of "The Man Who Saved Christmas," a program about Gilbert
on CBS Sunday night, is on Page 38.)

William Brown, the director of the Eli Whitney Museum in Hamden, Conn.,
said, "These toys were preparation for real life." He described the Erector
set as "an instrument of invention." His museum, devoted to inventions, has
several models of Gilbert's Erector sets, gifts from Gilbert relatives in
nearby New Haven.

Unlikely inventions have come out of the hands of Erector set tinkerers. Mr.
Brown said the origin of the artificial heart in 1948 was a device made with
an Erector set and a motor at the Yale Medical School in New Haven. "Dr.
Bill Glenn, a teacher there, backed the idea as part of student Bill
Sewell's research project for a medical degree," he said. Sewell built a
bypass device outside an animal's body by using Erector set parts and an
Erector set motor to pump blood to the heart.

In his biography of Gilbert, Mr. Watson cites another example. In the early
1990's, Mark Summers was asked to invent a virtual-reality attraction for
California Adventure, Disney's newest theme park in Anaheim. He designed a
ride called "Soarin' Over California" on his computer, but he couldn't get
the apparatus to do what he wanted on his computer screen, namely, have the
seats fly over the screen.

Finally, he took his old Erector set out of the attic and bolted together a
frame with pulleys and wheels and suspended seats. He took this to his
bosses to show how the seats could be made to soar over the theater screen.
(The younger engineers called it "Flintstone engineering.") The model showed
that the ride could be built, and it made its debut in the spring of 2001.

Today, Erector sets are still made (see Erectorworld.com), but the thousands
of American collectors of vintage Erector sets are interested in those made
before the company was bought in the mid-1960's. After several changes in
ownership, it now belongs to Brio, a Swedish-owned company based in
Germantown, Wis. "The new Erector sets are less complex and use plastic,"
Mr. Watson said. "They include human figures. They are not about rebuilding
the industrial world."

Most collectors are men, and the range of prices is wide, from a few hundred
dollars to $15,000 for a vintage Erector set from the 1920's. Mr. Jugle said
that buyers tend to fall into two groups, those in their 40's and successful
people in their 60's and 70's. "Of the second group, I'd say about 90
percent of the people have advanced degrees; they are the doctors,
scientists and engineers," he said. "Then there are the men who have a
million dollars they are willing to spend on their Erector set collections."

The top collectors around the country include Bill Bean and Dan Yett of
Ohio, Ted Howard of New Jersey, John Drury of Chicago, the magician David
Copperfield and Mr. Jugle.

Mr. Jugle goes to the Toy Collectors Association meetings twice a year and
attends the annual meeting of the A. C. Gilbert Heritage Society, which
numbers a few hundred members. "The best old sets tend to be in places where
there was money," he said. "New York was rich; Denver had mining; Texas had
oil; and Wichita and Kansas City had a lot of railroad building."

The old sets have wonderful names: "The Crazy Inventor Series," "Dirigible
Airship," "The Musical Ferris Wheel," "Super Excavator." The only trouble
is, children are not supposed to use them. "Nowadays, you cannot sell old
Erector sets to children because they have sharp edges," Mr. Jugle said.
"The consumer protection people think children will eat the nuts and bolts.
Each set must be marked with a label reading: `This is an adult collectible,
not a toy.' "

Not that collectors plan to use the vintage sets they buy. Value is linked
to condition. "That's the irony of it," Mr. Juble said. "The Erector sets
that were used got cruddy and rusted. The only ones that survived were never
used. Collectors want only the virgin sets that are untouched."

Mr. Barrett said: "Erector sets only get into serious value when they are in
near-perfect shape. They should be in their original box, preferably the red
wooden box, with all the pieces wired down to their original retaining
plates, and with all the original papers and the lithograph inset in the
lid." He conducts two auctions a year in Lambertville, N.J.

Why are Erector sets still so appealing? "Magic was the key to every toy
Gilbert sold," Mr. Watson writes. "And each worked a kind of magic back when
most Americans made things instead of just selling them, and when industry,
not information, was the label of the age. Gilbert boys together built
America. They built the roads, factories, dams, buildings, cars, trucks and
tractors, the simple gadgets and rocket science that brought the country out
of the 19th century and hurled it toward the 21st."
Group: S-Trains Message: 22296 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop
What is the RFG website? Would like to order a trip. Any reason it
cannot be used in conjunction with an af trip? John B.

--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "rodgers_carl <rodgers_carl@h...>"
<rodgers_carl@h...> wrote:
> It's really simple and both are done the same way. You start by
using
> fibre pins to divide the loop into three blocks. Then you hook the
> appropriate wires to each section. One engine controls the other
> engine like a domino, so they can't catch up to each other. One
> section of the loop is a (on off) block, another is the block that
> controls it and the remainder is a free section. The RFG unit comes
> with a diagram and instructions for that and other things.
>
>
>
>
> --- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "John Brockmann <hcopter51@a...>"
> <hcopter51@a...> wrote:
> > Ok, how does the track trip allow you to run two trains on the
same
> > loop? John B.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "rodgers_carl
<rodgers_carl@h...>"
> > <rodgers_carl@h...> wrote:
> > > I've used both, with good results. They both hook up the same
> way.
> > > The RFG is solid state with a fuse, while the AF will burn out
if
> > you
> > > get a de-railment and done cut the power.
> > >
> > > Carl
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, William Lange <blange3@c...>
> wrote:
> > > > I've seen several devices that allow you to run 2 trains on
one
> > loop
> > > > like the AF 26671 Track Trip or RFG's 1202.
> > > >
> > > > Any advice on the best way to do this? It would make m
> Christmas
> > > layout
> > > > much more exciting!
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > Bill Lange
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22297 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: TA Studios
Chris,

What's their web address?

Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
To: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 1:05 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] TA Studios


> I already got a reply from Mike Reagan, President of TA Studios.
> I will quote from it, but not in its entirety, as he said some things in
> confidence and asked me to not repeat them. Pretty exciting already, eh?
>
> Chris Zizzo
> _____________________________________________________
>
> Chris,
> I understand your position and agree with you entirely. The problem here
is
> that we have just announced the O 2-Rail and G 2-Rail products as of June.
> The demand for this is overwhelming. . . . Once we have [dealt with this
> demand] we do in fact plan on addressing the S gauge market.
>
> You must remember that it is not as simple as just updating or creating
new
> pages on the site, but there is an extensive amount of time and effort
that
> goes into testing, instruction writing, and so many other facets . . ..
>
> As I said, we do plan on addressing the S gauge and scale markets in 2003.
> Please check the site out from time to time as you will eventually see the
S
> gauge products you are so looking forward to.
>
> Thank you for your suggestions.
> Mike Reagan
> President, TAStudios
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22298 From: wintermutedm Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: S Gauge Thomas the Tank Engine
Are there still AC Thomas engines available?


--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, Mark Preman <amerflyer@y...> wrote:
> Thomas has arrived. Comes is AC highrail or DC
> highrail ready to run on your American Flyer track
> with your transformer. $65 plus $4 S&H in the
> contiguous 48. Picture at http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>
> =====
> Mark B. Preman
> AmericanFlyerTrains.com
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 22299 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop
Found the website. Still would like to know if the two (RFG and AF)
can be used together. Thanks,John B.

--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "John Brockmann <hcopter51@a...>"
<hcopter51@a...> wrote:
> What is the RFG website? Would like to order a trip. Any reason it
> cannot be used in conjunction with an af trip? John B.
>
> --- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "rodgers_carl <rodgers_carl@h...>"
> <rodgers_carl@h...> wrote:
> > It's really simple and both are done the same way. You start by
> using
> > fibre pins to divide the loop into three blocks. Then you hook
the
> > appropriate wires to each section. One engine controls the other
> > engine like a domino, so they can't catch up to each other. One
> > section of the loop is a (on off) block, another is the block
that
> > controls it and the remainder is a free section. The RFG unit
comes
> > with a diagram and instructions for that and other things.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "John Brockmann
<hcopter51@a...>"
> > <hcopter51@a...> wrote:
> > > Ok, how does the track trip allow you to run two trains on the
> same
> > > loop? John B.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "rodgers_carl
> <rodgers_carl@h...>"
> > > <rodgers_carl@h...> wrote:
> > > > I've used both, with good results. They both hook up the same
> > way.
> > > > The RFG is solid state with a fuse, while the AF will burn
out
> if
> > > you
> > > > get a de-railment and done cut the power.
> > > >
> > > > Carl
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, William Lange <blange3@c...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > I've seen several devices that allow you to run 2 trains on
> one
> > > loop
> > > > > like the AF 26671 Track Trip or RFG's 1202.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any advice on the best way to do this? It would make m
> > Christmas
> > > > layout
> > > > > much more exciting!
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill Lange
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22300 From: tomsmitty2001 Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: 770 baggage loader
John Brockman asked what sort of "packages" were found with the
loader, mine came with four rectangular cast-metal "boxes", what was
in 'em I don't know, they were heavy and if there was anything inside
that might break, after almost 50 years of loading and unloading and
other rough handling, well.......I hate to think about the insurance
claims that will be bandied about IF they ever get to their
destination !

There was good advice for successful operation of this accessory, one
of the most important is the voltage going to it. After much
experimenting I ended up with a couple of resistors in-line. I
figured this out by attaching the leads to the variable output posts
until the activation button would reliably "just" send the boxes into
the box car. This is't so important when you use a gondola to load
into, but I found for the boxcar this was critical. Too little
voltage, obviously, might not even get the boxes to the end of the
ramp, but too much voltage was just as bad as the boxes would rebound
off the back side of the ramp mechansim and sometimes bounce right
out of the car ! The other thing that required some fine adjustment
was the flip-down end of the ramp. With the string loose and the flip-
down all the way down, it's height was less than that of the ramp in
the box car, and often the edge of the "package" would catch the ramp
and get all cattywompus, either not going in at all, or if it did, it
would hang up. I solved this little bugaboo by taking a very thin
strip of shim stock and placing it between the end of the ramp and
the hinge-end of the flip-down so that the flip-down wouldn't hang
down all the way. Yes, I did check the car for problems, like a bent
or altered frame, I was using vintage ACG track at the time, and
there was nothing apparently wrong with the loader itself ~ other
than the height between the two was off a little. Anyway, it turned
into a good-working piece, take your time experimenting to get it
reliable.

Regard'S',

Smitty
Group: S-Trains Message: 22301 From: rodgers_carl Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop
I suppose they could be, but you only need one to set up the 2 trains
on one track.



--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "John Brockmann <hcopter51@a...>"
<hcopter51@a...> wrote:
> Found the website. Still would like to know if the two (RFG and AF)
> can be used together. Thanks,John B.
>
> --- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "John Brockmann <hcopter51@a...>"
> <hcopter51@a...> wrote:
> > What is the RFG website? Would like to order a trip. Any reason
it
> > cannot be used in conjunction with an af trip? John B.
> >
> > --- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "rodgers_carl
<rodgers_carl@h...>"
> > <rodgers_carl@h...> wrote:
> > > It's really simple and both are done the same way. You start by
> > using
> > > fibre pins to divide the loop into three blocks. Then you hook
> the
> > > appropriate wires to each section. One engine controls the
other
> > > engine like a domino, so they can't catch up to each other. One
> > > section of the loop is a (on off) block, another is the block
> that
> > > controls it and the remainder is a free section. The RFG unit
> comes
> > > with a diagram and instructions for that and other things.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "John Brockmann
> <hcopter51@a...>"
> > > <hcopter51@a...> wrote:
> > > > Ok, how does the track trip allow you to run two trains on
the
> > same
> > > > loop? John B.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "rodgers_carl
> > <rodgers_carl@h...>"
> > > > <rodgers_carl@h...> wrote:
> > > > > I've used both, with good results. They both hook up the
same
> > > way.
> > > > > The RFG is solid state with a fuse, while the AF will burn
> out
> > if
> > > > you
> > > > > get a de-railment and done cut the power.
> > > > >
> > > > > Carl
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, William Lange
<blange3@c...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > I've seen several devices that allow you to run 2 trains
on
> > one
> > > > loop
> > > > > > like the AF 26671 Track Trip or RFG's 1202.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any advice on the best way to do this? It would make m
> > > Christmas
> > > > > layout
> > > > > > much more exciting!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill Lange
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22302 From: rkuepper Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Re: Train America Studios
I had contacted TA about 3 weeks ago inquiring about using their products in
S. They responded by inviting me to bring down a couple of AF engines
(they're only about 50 minutes from me), and they would give them a try. I
haven't had the time yet, but hope to do so during or right after the
holidays. I'll let you know what happens.

Gotta go finish the layout under the tree! Happy Holidays!

Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...>
To: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 10:11 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Train America Studios


> I just sent this note to Train America Studios, the makers of the Cab
> control devices we would need in using TMCC. Their site is fascinating
and
> helpful, but it falls a little short. These were my suggestions:
> Chris Zizzo
> _______________________________________________________
>
> Sirs:
> Recent discussions on the S-Trains mail list have been positive with
respect
> to using TMCC or the new MTH system to enhance control of our 2-rail AC
> hi-rail trains. Many of our locomotives are older American Flyer
universal
> motors. Newer Flyer as well as the engines made by S-Helper Service and
> American Models usually use DC motors with a rectifier. Our preferred
track
> power is 17VAC.
>
> Our list is comprised of approximately 600 members. I am constantly
> surprised when I meet S-gaugers in my travels and they tell me they don't
> subscribe to the list. The S market is far larger than most manufacturers
> realize. Large production runs of cars and locos frequently sell out
> because of underestimation by the makers. S-Gauge now has its own
category
> in E-Bay, and I find modern S-gauge rolling stock on the shelves of even
> small Mom & Pop hobby stores in out of the way locations.
>
> Your website seems like it could be the clearinghouse for an S-gauge foray
> into TMCC. Since none of our engines come equipped for command operation,
> we would need to buy it all from you. We can buy the basics off the shelf
> anywhere, but we would need the UCUBs and UCABs and any other materials
you
> might deem necessary.
>
> Here is what I am asking you to do. Please address S-Gauge in your
website.
> As you have set up 0 3-rail and 0 2-rail and G, please set up a section
for
> S. To me, 0 2-rail means DC operation. For S-Scalers, who use DC, this
> info would be useful, though most use DCC. For S-Hi-Railers, AC
operations
> in 2 rail may change some of the parameters, and you will need to address
> this.
>
> A little research and a bit of repurposing of your existing inventory to
our
> needs, as well as adding a few pages to your website, is all that would be
> required for you to open a new market segment for your fine products.
>
> I look forward to your reply and I trust you will take my suggestions to
> heart.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Chris Zizzo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22303 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: 2 trains on one loop
A single protected block, such as you get from an AF semaphore or the RFG
unit, will allow you to run two trains on one loop, but there are
drawbacks.

For one thing, the two trains must run at approximately equal speed. This
is done by using similar locos and/or adding and subtracting cars from the
two trains.

For another, there is what Carl Rodgers just called a "free section", in
which collisions may occur unless the trains are adjusted as above.

Next year I hope to publish a series of circuits in the S Gaugian
Roundhouse column that will describe a completely protected block system
for running two trains around a large loop. Trains could be of various
lengths and run at different speeds without problems. Every part of the
loop would be protected against collision.

I am not familiar with the RFG device . I think my system will be roughly
analogous to using three RFG devices on a single loop, with several
important added features and variations and add-ons.

I want to build it and debug it before I publish it, though.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 22304 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: American Flyer with TMCC
It is very encouraging that Train America Studios is considering
retrofitting S gauge equipment. TMCC has the definite advantage that DCC
doesn't have of being able to be mixed with Legacy equipment on the same
layout. You can take a TMCC equipped engine and still run it on your buddy's
conventional layout and it will run like a non-TMCC engine by automatically
switching itself to run in the conventional mode. I hope that the evolution
of the TMMC receivers continues shrink in size and so it will fit in SHS and
AM equipment and have railsounds too.

In the meantime if you want to play on your own with TMCC here are some
conversion I have done using the original non railsound LCRU receiver. I had
to figure out make the receivers reliable with two rail track and also how
to convert it to run DC motors and not lose directional control. It is
explained in detail at the links below.

An American Models FP-7
http://www.tuveson.com/LCRU/tmcc.htm

An American Flyer Hudson
http://www.tuveson.com/LCRU/af_tender_lcru.htm

An LIT/American Flyer Geep
http://www.tuveson.com/LCRU/AFGPlcru/AFGPTMCC.htm

An American Flyer 0-8-0 with operating electocouplers.
http://www.tuveson.com/0-8-0/0-8-0.htm

And a soon to be completed LTI / American Flyer NYC PA set with
electrocouplers on both units using a LCRX unit in the second "A" unit for
it's lighting and coupler control.

It would be nice it there was a bolt on conversion kit and/or a place to
send in engines for conversion.


Carl
Group: S-Trains Message: 22305 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: Crossing gate
Does anyone have an internal wiring diagram for the 591 Crossing Gate?

Thanks,
Tim Brown

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22306 From: William Lange Date: 12/13/2002
Subject: 2 Trains on 1 loop
Far be it from me to ask for advice and then disappear! I've been
learning about block control, raiding the junk box and now have 2 trains
on one loop all for the price of some dirty hands and a few hours of
frustraion.

I have a roof-less 'Sam the Semaphore Man' and a couple of 696 track
trips keeping me on the edge of my seat! The kids and wife love it and
eventually I'll get some more reliable gear. But for now we're having
fun.

Thanks to all who responded! Even Keith with his on-and-off list
wise-cracks!

Now if I can just figure out how to wire a smoke-in-tender unit!

Bill Lange



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22307 From: Bill Lane Date: 12/14/2002
Subject: Southwind Models update
Hi All,

I am very happy to announce that the Southwind Models website
www.southwindmodels.com has been updated with more photos of the S Scale B &
O EM-1 and B & O I-5 caboose. Please give it a look. The site is being added
to almost daily, so check back often. I have 2 boxes of models to be
photographed that will be added soon. Contact info@... with
any questions you may have.

Thank You
Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 22308 From: rfgiardina Date: 12/14/2002
Subject: Re: 2 trains on one loop
The speed of each train does not need to be approximately equal, in a
properly set up system. If the control section is made long enough to
accomodate a train that runs at even half the speed of the other
engine, there won't be a problem. Engines should be in good running
order, even if your not running this system.

The idea of the RFG 1202 is an easy an inexpensive way to get more
action in a small space. Complicated systems may be more fool proof,
but at what cost, both time and money.

We've added a diagram to our website http://www.rfgco.com , click on
the Electronic Devices in the lower right and then on the "Run 2
trains on the same track".

RFG


--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, jarcho@r... wrote:
> A single protected block, such as you get from an AF semaphore or
the RFG
> unit, will allow you to run two trains on one loop, but there are
> drawbacks.
>
> For one thing, the two trains must run at approximately equal
speed. This
> is done by using similar locos and/or adding and subtracting cars
from the
> two trains.
>
> For another, there is what Carl Rodgers just called a "free
section", in
> which collisions may occur unless the trains are adjusted as above.
>
> Next year I hope to publish a series of circuits in the S Gaugian
> Roundhouse column that will describe a completely protected block
system
> for running two trains around a large loop. Trains could be of
various
> lengths and run at different speeds without problems. Every part
of the
> loop would be protected against collision.
>
> I am not familiar with the RFG device . I think my system will be
roughly
> analogous to using three RFG devices on a single loop, with several
> important added features and variations and add-ons.
>
> I want to build it and debug it before I publish it, though.
>
> Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 22309 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 12/14/2002
Subject: New page added dedicated to S-Gauge TMCC
It has been suggested that I add a section to my web site dedicated to the
use of TMCC in S gauge.

So.. I did

It will be dynamic and I hope filled with exciting news of future releases
and tips and links.
Please if you have any suggestions, ideas, experiences, or new links to add,
contact me.

It can be accessed from the side bar "TMCC for S Gauge" on my home page at.
http://www.tuveson.com

or at the direct link:
http://www.tuveson.com/TMCC/s_gauge_and_tmcc.htm


Carl
Group: S-Trains Message: 22310 From: BARRY SEEL Date: 12/14/2002
Subject: S gauge layout on ebay
Due to declining health I am forced to sell my layout.I case any of
you are interested you can view it at:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3100327817

Barry
Group: S-Trains Message: 22311 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/14/2002
Subject: Re: S gauge layout on ebay
Barry...You have A beautiful layout...I know how you hate to part with
it...At 64 I am in that boat too...I started to put an opening bid of 2000
on it as its well worth it...but being in Florida, all I could use is the
equipment...My room is only 9'-6" x 13'-6"....Wish you the best of
luck...Bob Conner
----- Original Message -----
From: <CROSLEY19@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 9:23 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] S gauge layout on ebay


> Due to declining health I am forced to sell my layout.I case any of
> you are interested you can view it at:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3100327817
>
> Barry
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22312 From: Michael T Date: 12/14/2002
Subject: Corvette transporter 24578
ANYONE out there have a Corvette transporter (#24578)? Including the
car?


thanks,
Michael Tomsa
Chicago, IL
Group: S-Trains Message: 22313 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 12/14/2002
Subject: 770 Loader "Packages"
John Brockman asked what sort of "packages" were found
with the 770 Baggage Loader. I received a 770 and
operating green baggage car with my first AF train
set. This was a used 1947 set consisting of a 312 SIT
PRR K-5 with New Haven passenger cars plus a pair of
740 switches, remote uncoupler, whistling billboard,
and one button Sam the Semaphore Man.

My 770 Loader came with two different types of
"packages". First, there was the common PA11180
Carton/Cube, which also came with the 750 operating
boxcar. This is just basically a small block of lead
painted black. It also came with the XA11520 square
flat bottom milk can, which is an assembly. Both of
these "packages" are available as reproductions.

Joe


=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22314 From: Alan Bennett Date: 12/15/2002
Subject: S gauge trains at the Oregon State Capitol
Hi all,

After a 1 year hiatus due to the subdued holiday decorations at the Oregon
State Capitol following the tragedy of 9/11/01, the American Flyer train is
back this year meandering through the snow covered historical Salem, Oregon
area scale structures under the big tree in the Rotunda. With the one
exception, we've run there for most of December every year since 1984. I
live in nearby Keizer, Oregon, and our little newspaper ran a nice article
that I thought you all might find of interest. Here is the website of the
article:

http://www.keizertimes.com/news/story.cfm?story_no=4108

The little girl and her grandmother just showed up while we were talking.
The paper also ran a picture of me holding an engine, but this picture is
much better!

My only regret is that he didn't give enough credit to Don Curtis who not
only supervised the initial project by the inmates, but is the real genius
behind the realism of the structures and layout. The reporter wanted the
Keizer boy makes good(?) angle, I guess. I guess they wanted to do this
feature on me because the Chair of the Capitol decorating committee is a
neighbor of ours in Keizer, and she mentioned my name in connection with the
model train in an article that appeared Thanksgiving weekend.

Merry Christmas and a prosperous train filled New Year!

Alan Bennett
Group: S-Trains Message: 22315 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 12/15/2002
Subject: Gilbert 1951 Catalog Online
Hello All,

I have posted on my web site the entire American Flyer Trains / Gilbert
1951 catalog in high resolution 1024 x 768 form. Great for viewing and
downloading / printing. The text is easily read, so take a look. A nice
way to look at a catalog you don't own, or save some wear and tear on
one you do!

In addition to American Flyer Trains, all of the other Gilbert toys of
that time are shown.

http://www.myflyertrains.org is the place...

Thanks, Chuck
Group: S-Trains Message: 22316 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/15/2002
Subject: Gilbert special
Hey guys,

Don't forget about the Gilbert special tonight. Alexander said he didn't know why the producer cast him for the part of AC either. I think I do. With his stage presence, he can project the wonderment we all had of the toys back in that era, yet also express the consternations of a frustrated inventor/manufacturer. That's my take on it. We'll see.

Tim Brown

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22317 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 12/15/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert 1951 Catalog Online
Hi Chuck:
That was great to see it. Tx.
Rance Velapoldi

Chuck Harrington wrote:

>Hello All,
>
>I have posted on my web site the entire American Flyer Trains / Gilbert
>1951 catalog in high resolution 1024 x 768 form. Great for viewing and
>downloading / printing. The text is easily read, so take a look. A nice
>way to look at a catalog you don't own, or save some wear and tear on
>one you do!
>
>In addition to American Flyer Trains, all of the other Gilbert toys of
>that time are shown.
>
>http://www.myflyertrains.org is the place...
>
>Thanks, Chuck
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22318 From: Dennis Back Date: 12/15/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert 1951 Catalog Online QUESTION
http://www.myflyertrains.org

Chuck, thanks for posting the above.

My question is...on page 29, there are TWO roadside
diners. The small one I would think is HO. Why was
this listed here, side by side?

Happy Holidays to all. I haven't posted to the list
in ages, but I am still here lurking.

Regards,
Dennis
Miami

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22319 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/15/2002
Subject: Good News
http://S-Scale.org is back online

http://S-Scale.org/albums/ <-- Photo Albums

http://S-Scale.org/forum/ <--chat room

http://PaulYorke.com <--Bookstore and other stuff

no changes to S-Trains

Maybe now I can find some time for site maintenance.

Enjoy the Season!!

=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22320 From: louis glumac Date: 12/15/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert special
hi all,,,,,,i have some new flyer cars in the boxes for sale, $25 each plus
shipping,48321 1994 xmas,48319 1993 xmas, 48323 1995 xmas, 48316 bagor &
aroostook,48806 railway exspress,48609 delware & hudson hopper,48807 nickel
plate road, thanks lou
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>
To: "S-List" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 12:17 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Gilbert special


> Hey guys,
>
> Don't forget about the Gilbert special tonight. Alexander said he didn't
know why the producer cast him for the part of AC either. I think I do.
With his stage presence, he can project the wonderment we all had of the
toys back in that era, yet also express the consternations of a frustrated
inventor/manufacturer. That's my take on it. We'll see.
>
> Tim Brown
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22321 From: trainman634 Date: 12/15/2002
Subject: American Flyer Reproduction Boxes
Can I buy American Flyer reproduction train boxes?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22322 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/15/2002
Subject: Gilbert Special
Bravo!!! Spectacular!!! I wouldn't change a thing!!!

Tim Brown

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22323 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 12/15/2002
Subject: Gilbert Special
No American Flyer, the story ended 20 years before Gilbert got the train co.

>Bravo!!! Spectacular!!! I wouldn't change a thing!!!

Tim Brown <

I second that.

jfred




---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22324 From: David Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert special
It was an OK account of Gilberts early years. But the movie was full
of omissions and mistakes. They made NO mention of his two daughters
at all. They had him retrieving unsold Erector sets at the beginning
of the movie at a time when cars did not exist. This is too early as
he did not invent Erector until 1913, and cars were well established
by then. They never mentioned the name of the company, Mysto
Manufacturing. He actually started out with magic, and they showed
him doing some tricks, but neglected ALL of that part of History
which lead up to him getting into toys and Erector in the first
place. His home was wrong, he had a Tudor style home. If you really
want to get pickey the electric fans in the factory were late 40's
vintage. Further, A.C. was a tall skinny man, and Jason Alexander
didn't even come close to his physical make up as he is shorter and
pudgey. Of course the movied ended well before A.C. approached
Coleman about American Flyer so all we got as train fans was a brief
mention at the end that he later got into toy trains. Nice story, but
lacking a lot.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22325 From: Steve Blancard Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert special
The Gilbert special was never intended, nor advertised to be an
authentic biography of AC. It was simply intended to be a warm
hearted Christmas special "based on actual events". Sure there were
lots of inaccuracies, but as a Christmas season movie I think it did
a good job of portraying AC's boyish spirit and reviving many
memories of Erector sets from years past. The film was a bit
predictable and Ed Asner's protrayal of AC's curmudgonly father was a
bit overdone and I'm no fan of Jason Alexander, but despite his lack
of physical similarity, I was pleased with his portrayal.

I bet the sales of modern Erector sets jump this year.

Steve Blancard
Crustyfour

--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "David <Dave0616@A...>"
<Dave0616@A...> wrote:
> It was an OK account of Gilberts early years. But the movie was
full
> of omissions and mistakes. They made NO mention of his two
daughters
> at all. They had him retrieving unsold Erector sets at the
beginning
> of the movie at a time when cars did not exist. This is too early
as
> he did not invent Erector until 1913, and cars were well
established
> by then. They never mentioned the name of the company, Mysto
> Manufacturing. He actually started out with magic, and they showed
> him doing some tricks, but neglected ALL of that part of History
> which lead up to him getting into toys and Erector in the first
> place. His home was wrong, he had a Tudor style home. If you really
> want to get pickey the electric fans in the factory were late 40's
> vintage. Further, A.C. was a tall skinny man, and Jason Alexander
> didn't even come close to his physical make up as he is shorter and
> pudgey. Of course the movied ended well before A.C. approached
> Coleman about American Flyer so all we got as train fans was a
brief
> mention at the end that he later got into toy trains. Nice story,
but
> lacking a lot.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22326 From: Doug Peck Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer Reproduction Boxes
<< From: "trainman634 <carl4260@...>" <carl4260@...>
Subject: American Flyer Reproduction Boxes

Can I buy American Flyer reproduction train boxes?
>>

Yes....red & white, and blue & yellow.
Visit our website Parts Catalog.

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours - Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays: 2-5 PM (EST), and 7-9 PM.
Saturdays: 2-5 PM.
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please.)
Website: www.portlines.com
E-mail: doug@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 22327 From: JConn444@aol.com Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Sunday Night Chat
Since joining the group I have been unable to get into the chat room. After I
enter my user ID and password, a "canceled action" page comes up. Is there
something I am missing? John Conn


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22328 From: Mike Vana Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: 1951 catalog?
Chuck,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that looks like the 1952 catalog
you scanned. K325, K335 and knuckle couplers are a giveaway.
You did an excellent job scanning it, though.

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22329 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Chat room
Since joining the group I have been unable to get into the chat room. After I

enter my user ID and password, a "canceled action" page comes up. Is there
something I am missing? John Conn


Don't feel bad John, When I sign in, it sends me back to the sign on page
again. I have tried all the trouble shooting tips and still can't get in. I
just gave it up. Chris B


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22330 From: Roy Inman Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert special
This was my reaction as well.
But I was not prepared for anything else from commercial TV.
It was a more or less sappy, warm and fuzzy holiday family relationship love
story. And I am a sucker for those.
For a documentary of A.C.'s life, we need PBS to step up.
And just BTW, is there any comprehensive book, short story, etc., that
details Gilbert's toy train years?
Cheers :)
Roy Inman

> From: "David <Dave0616@...>" <Dave0616@...>
> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 12:51:41 +0000
> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Gilbert special
>
> Nice story, but
> lacking a lot.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22331 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: Chat room
Chris and John...at first I had A little trouble....but got it working....It
works fine for me now...Keep trying...Its A great group of guys...Last night
was kinda short though...Maybe some of the Computer guru's out there can
help more....Bob Conner
----- Original Message -----
From: <Cbtrainnut1@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 10:28 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Chat room


> Since joining the group I have been unable to get into the chat room.
After I
>
> enter my user ID and password, a "canceled action" page comes up. Is there
> something I am missing? John Conn
>
>
> Don't feel bad John, When I sign in, it sends me back to the sign on page
> again. I have tried all the trouble shooting tips and still can't get in.
I
> just gave it up. Chris B
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22332 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: 1951 catalog?
Mike....Sorry...while I have not checked all the pics....I just checked my
Mint 1951 Catalog......Thats what he shows...However he must have some kind
of Different catalog as mine has the date 1951 printed on the cover, by the
factory, just above the hudson smoke stack....Bob Conner
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Vana" <amflyer@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 9:58 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] 1951 catalog?


> Chuck,
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but that looks like the 1952 catalog
> you scanned. K325, K335 and knuckle couplers are a giveaway.
> You did an excellent job scanning it, though.
>
> Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22333 From: stanley Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: Chat room
Don,t feel bad when I joined I haven't been able to get into the chat room
either stanley
----- Original Message -----
From: <Cbtrainnut1@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 10:28 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Chat room


> Since joining the group I have been unable to get into the chat room.
After I
>
> enter my user ID and password, a "canceled action" page comes up. Is there
> something I am missing? John Conn
>
>
> Don't feel bad John, When I sign in, it sends me back to the sign on page
> again. I have tried all the trouble shooting tips and still can't get in.
I
> just gave it up. Chris B
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22334 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Track trips, electronic
A while back there was a brief discussion on types of track trips, IR,
etc. Any comments on pros and cons with the various products out there,
e.g., the RFG 1202 track sensing device vs others?
Info is appreciated. tx
Rance Velapoldi
Group: S-Trains Message: 22335 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: 1951 catalog?
Hey guys...Please forgive me...When you are in pain ( My knee hurts
something awful ) your mind is not in gear....YES IT IS A 1952 Catalog...I
really messed up on that last comment....But anyway, its A great scan...How
About the rest? Bob Conner
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Vana" <amflyer@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 9:58 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] 1951 catalog?


> Chuck,
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but that looks like the 1952 catalog
> you scanned. K325, K335 and knuckle couplers are a giveaway.
> You did an excellent job scanning it, though.
>
> Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22336 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: 1951 catalog? NO 1952!
Thanks for all the emails regarding the catalog. I messed up, and posted
it as a 1951, when it had sets in it whose set numbers started with 52 !
I have made corrections, and it is now properly represented as 1952.

Thanks, Chuck

robert allen conner wrote:

>Hey guys...Please forgive me...When you are in pain ( My knee hurts
>something awful ) your mind is not in gear....YES IT IS A 1952 Catalog...I
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22337 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: Track trips, electronic
I used a pair of "Z Stuff" IR detectors and a relay to power flashers at
a crossing on our modular layout. They are a little out of scale but
work great. They detect the physical presence of a train so no wiring
of blocks is required. This is ideal in a modular layout where the
flashers need to start operating a few feet before the train gets
there. I can never be sure exactly which module precedes the one with
the flasher so block wiring was not desirable in that application.

Minus:
1) Not to scale
2) They won't scan across both tracks of the dual mainline so we became
direction sensitive. Trains had to run right handed. I mean to check
with Z stuff to find out if we can add 2 more detectors to avoid
direction sensitivity.

Plus:
This taught me how well IR detectors work. I have seen plans to make
them and bury them in the track. This would be the ideal way to go for
IR.

Rance and Bente Velapoldi wrote:
>
> A while back there was a brief discussion on types of track trips, IR,
> etc. Any comments on pros and cons with the various products out there,
> e.g., the RFG 1202 track sensing device vs others?
> Info is appreciated. tx
> Rance Velapoldi
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 22338 From: Jim Armstrong Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: partial boxes
I have quite a few boxes with one or more flaps missing, usually
including the one with the car identification. I have been just
gathering them over in a corner, but I guess I gotta ask the question -
are they worth anything to anyone? Or should I just toss them? JimA
Group: S-Trains Message: 22339 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: AOL8 and PHP Chat Room
The chat room is not compatible with AOL8.0 browser.
Like all the other chat rooms this one has it's
problems.
If you are an AOL user you can still use the chat
room, you just need to use the Microsoft Internet
Explorer browser that came with windows (or some other
browser).

Log onto the internet using AOL in the usual way.
then
Minimize (not shutdown ) the AOL browser.

Then
Start IE, it should bring you to a microsoft webpage,
then type in s-scale.org/forum in the 'Address'window.
That should take you to the login screen.
Type in your username and password, and the chat room
should pop up.

Warning: I am not an AOL user and have never tried
this, if someone has better instructions please step
forward.


=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22340 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Oil Depot Photos Posted to the S-Trains Gallery
Hello Group,

I have posted several photos of my oil depot constructed using the
LVM28 Bulk Oil Depot kit plus several Lionel vertical tanks. The oil
depot has a rail car unloading station capable of unloading 5
different fluids. The fluids are transferred via color coded piping
to either vertical storage tanks, horizontal storage tanks or to the
truck loading station. The various trucks are all AHL 1/64 scale
vehicles. I have also included a couple of photos of the 322 steam
locomotive steaming past the oil depot.

You can view these photos in Paul Yorke's gallery at:

http://66.246.35.207/~pyorke/albums/albums.php

Chose the Model Railroading Album, then the Photos From Our S Friends
Album and then the BullGator Album.

I hope you enjoy the photos. I also hope this plants the seed for
more of you to post your own photos!!

BG1
Group: S-Trains Message: 22341 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: 2 trains on one loop
Well Tom, Got trains running on one loop with two 697's and 761
semaphore. I had to do just as you described,using similar locos and
playing with amount of cars on each . Works tho, only have to
separate the trips more now. Then speed does not make much dif. John
B.


--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, jarcho@r... wrote:
> A single protected block, such as you get from an AF semaphore or
the RFG
> unit, will allow you to run two trains on one loop, but there are
> drawbacks.
>
> For one thing, the two trains must run at approximately equal
speed. This
> is done by using similar locos and/or adding and subtracting cars
from the
> two trains.
>
> For another, there is what Carl Rodgers just called a "free
section", in
> which collisions may occur unless the trains are adjusted as above.
>
> Next year I hope to publish a series of circuits in the S Gaugian
> Roundhouse column that will describe a completely protected block
system
> for running two trains around a large loop. Trains could be of
various
> lengths and run at different speeds without problems. Every part
of the
> loop would be protected against collision.
>
> I am not familiar with the RFG device . I think my system will be
roughly
> analogous to using three RFG devices on a single loop, with several
> important added features and variations and add-ons.
>
> I want to build it and debug it before I publish it, though.
>
> Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 22342 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop
Thanks for bringing up the subject.Learned alot. Also having fun
watching for rear-enders.John B.

--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, William Lange <blange3@c...> wrote:
> Far be it from me to ask for advice and then disappear! I've been
> learning about block control, raiding the junk box and now have 2
trains
> on one loop all for the price of some dirty hands and a few hours of
> frustraion.
>
> I have a roof-less 'Sam the Semaphore Man' and a couple of 696 track
> trips keeping me on the edge of my seat! The kids and wife love it
and
> eventually I'll get some more reliable gear. But for now we're
having
> fun.
>
> Thanks to all who responded! Even Keith with his on-and-off list
> wise-cracks!
>
> Now if I can just figure out how to wire a smoke-in-tender unit!
>
> Bill Lange
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22343 From: Howell S Jobbins Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: Oil Depot Photos Posted to the S-Trains Gallery
BG1,

Nice work, I left a note asking about your technique for constructing the
wire fencing. I note in a previous picture you had two runs, and turned
the corner. Would like info on it's construction. Thanks, SteveJay.

PS: You guys should add some pictures too. See ya'
Group: S-Trains Message: 22344 From: rodgers_carl Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Real or Repro?
I have been told that this car is a repro, anyone have any idea?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&category=480&item=1926218200&rd=1
Group: S-Trains Message: 22345 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: 761 Semaphore
Now that I have the two trains running on the same loop with my 761
any problem with it switching frequently? Overheating? Thanks to all
for helping me do this. John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22346 From: Bull Gator Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: Oil Depot Photos Posted to the S-Trains Gallery
SteveJay,
The fencing is mosquito screen fabric from Walmart. If you look closely at the photos, you can see the fabric is woven in a running bond, not the typical 45 degree pattern. This makes the pattern difficult to cut. If you get to close to a cross in the pattern, the fabric will fray and unravel. The fence sections are 1.5 inches high (8 feet scale) by anywhere from 6 inches to 14 inches long. The posts are somewhat longer to fit into holes drilled in the base. The posts are located 1.5 inches apart (8 feet scale). The fabric pieces are 1.5 inches by the required running length. Even cutting them out very slowly and carefully, I averaged one good section for every four I started.
The fence posts and rails are 0.035 inch styrene rod. They were assembled using Testors Liquid Cement. I assembled the rails and poles for a given section of fencing on a flat surface for better alignment, then spray painted the assembly. I laid a piece of plastic cove molding to serve as a berm and mounted the fence along the centerline of the berm by drilling holes into the molding. I then just slipped the completed post and rail sections into the holes and glued them in while maintaining a 1.5 inch height on the rails.
I then attached the fence fabric one section at a time by taking some of the fabric "threads" and tying the fence fabric to the posts and rails. If you take a look at real chain link fence you can see how it is done. This is tedious work and you must be extremely careful not to catch any of the cut ends of the fence fabric or it will unravel and you are back to square one.
The last step was to glue the ballast stone to the berm. The ballst stone was used to help keep the posts and the fencing in a nice, straight line.
Just like real chain link fencing, the fabric does not turn corners. It is stopped at the end of each run and a new section begins around the corner. I thought about inserting rods at the end of each run just like on real chain link fencing, but you've got to stop somewhere .
I have looked at the hobby shop kits that use wedding veil type fabric for the fence material. The fabric is white and must be attached to the rails/posts, then stretched, then painted. I think my system is about the same amount of work but the end result is, IMHO, far superior to the kits. Not only that - you can make tons of fence with a $6 roll of screen versus $12 for a few feet with the kits!
Good luck with your fencing projects!
BG1
Howell S Jobbins <hsjobbins@...> wrote:BG1,

Nice work, I left a note asking about your technique for constructing the
wire fencing. I note in a previous picture you had two runs, and turned
the corner. Would like info on it's construction. Thanks, SteveJay.

PS: You guys should add some pictures too. See ya'


---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22347 From: Paul Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Cry for Help!
In my recent server swap, I misplaced the 'Turnout & Switch" albums.
Please visit them and see what I am missing. I rebuilt what I recall,
but I know of atleast one ablum that is missing.
Please resend me any good switch/turnout pictures that you might have.

Also Please feel free to add comments to the pictures, folks want to
know about compatibility, pros & cons
Group: S-Trains Message: 22348 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Gilbert movie
The Gilbert special was accurate in what mattered. I really don't believe
that the pole vault
or the type of trains in the display would have added to the movie as some
on the O gauge
group, otherwise know as TCA, would have you believe. It had a good feel
and was certainly
far superior to the Gilbert special that they did not run last year, or the
year before, or the
year before. No doubt some folks will look for an Erector set to buy this
year. --- Nick

PS Personally I loved the movie and I can list even more "inaccuracies"
than have been cited.

At 02:07 PM 12/16/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 23:21:03 -0500
> From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>
>Subject: Gilbert Special
>
>Bravo!!! Spectacular!!! I wouldn't change a thing!!!
>
>Tim Brown
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
Group: S-Trains Message: 22349 From: William Lange Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop
My pleasure John! I've learned quite a bit as well.

Thanks again to Tom and Keith and everyone else who chimed in. I've had
this running a couple of days now and have had to tune and adjust the
696's several times. I've never used a 697 but they look more reliable.
Can anyone confirm that as fact?

I'm also thinking of wiring in the 'Sam' control button in parallel to
the trips for an override when they occasionally stick.

Bill Lange


-----Original Message-----
From: John Brockmann <hcopter51@...> [mailto:hcopter51@...]
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 2:42 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop


Thanks for bringing up the subject.Learned alot. Also having fun
watching for rear-enders.John B.

--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, William Lange <blange3@c...> wrote:
> Far be it from me to ask for advice and then disappear! I've been
> learning about block control, raiding the junk box and now have 2
trains
> on one loop all for the price of some dirty hands and a few hours of
> frustraion.
>
> I have a roof-less 'Sam the Semaphore Man' and a couple of 696 track
> trips keeping me on the edge of my seat! The kids and wife love it
and
> eventually I'll get some more reliable gear. But for now we're
having
> fun.
>
> Thanks to all who responded! Even Keith with his on-and-off list
> wise-cracks!
>
> Now if I can just figure out how to wire a smoke-in-tender unit!
>
> Bill Lange
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Group: S-Trains Message: 22350 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert movie
The movie was accurate to me in that, as a child during WWII, all of us
kids had an Erector set, a Lionel train, Lincoln Logs and a chemistry
set, usually by Gilbert, though Lionel also sold a few. Seeing vintage
Lionel running over Erector bridges looked right to me. If the era was
WWI then I assume the Lionel was std. gauge and don't know about the
vintage accuracy of the particular trains shown. S gauge was almost 40
years away yet!

Nick and Becky Colleran wrote:
>
> The Gilbert special was accurate in what mattered. I really don't believe
> that the pole vault
> or the type of trains in the display would have added to the movie as some
> on the O gauge
> group, otherwise know as TCA, would have you believe. It had a good feel
> and was certainly
> far superior to the Gilbert special that they did not run last year, or the
> year before, or the
> year before. No doubt some folks will look for an Erector set to buy this
> year. --- Nick
>
> PS Personally I loved the movie and I can list even more "inaccuracies"
> than have been cited.
>
> At 02:07 PM 12/16/2002 +0000, you wrote:
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >Message: 8
> > Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 23:21:03 -0500
> > From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>
> >Subject: Gilbert Special
> >
> >Bravo!!! Spectacular!!! I wouldn't change a thing!!!
> >
> >Tim Brown
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >________________________________________________________________________
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 22351 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert Movie
That's my point exactly. I found myself getting misty eyed. I would much
rather watch a show that captures the feel and emotion than worry about
how tall the actor should be! This was a great Christmas show. --- Nick

At 03:08 AM 12/17/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 25
> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 22:02:19 -0500
> From: Chuck Smith <cesmith@...>
>Subject: Re: Gilbert movie
>
>The movie was accurate to me in that, as a child during WWII, all of us
>kids had an Erector set, a Lionel train, Lincoln Logs and a chemistry
>set, usually by Gilbert, though Lionel also sold a few. Seeing vintage
>Lionel running over Erector bridges looked right to me. If the era was
>WWI then I assume the Lionel was std. gauge and don't know about the
>vintage accuracy of the particular trains shown. S gauge was almost 40
>years away yet!
>
>Nick and Becky Colleran wrote:
> >
> > The Gilbert special was accurate in what mattered. I really don't believe
> > that the pole vault
> > or the type of trains in the display would have added to the movie as some
> > on the O gauge
> > group, otherwise know as TCA, would have you believe. It had a good feel
> > and was certainly
> > far superior to the Gilbert special that they did not run last year, or the
> > year before, or the
> > year before. No doubt some folks will look for an Erector set to buy this
> > year. --- Nick
> >
> > PS Personally I loved the movie and I can list even more "inaccuracies"
> > than have been cited.
> >
> > At 02:07 PM 12/16/2002 +0000, you wrote:
> > >________________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > >Message: 8
> > > Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 23:21:03 -0500
> > > From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>
> > >Subject: Gilbert Special
> > >
> > >Bravo!!! Spectacular!!! I wouldn't change a thing!!!
> > >
> > >Tim Brown
> > >
> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >________________________________________________________________________
> > >________________________________________________________________________
Group: S-Trains Message: 22352 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1678
In a message dated 12/16/2002 8:10:28 PM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:

>
> From: "robert allen conner" <rcon7@...>
> Subject: Re: Chat room
>
> Chris and John...at first I had A little trouble....but got it
> working....It
> works fine for me now...Keep trying...Its A great group of guys...Last
> night
> was kinda short though...Maybe some of the Computer guru's out there can
> help more....Bob Conner
>

Bob, if you're on AOL you can try till you turn blue. You ain't gettin there
with 8.0. I have tried about 20 times, changing names and passwords. I just
get the same old back to the sign on page again and again. I too, gave up.

Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22353 From: David Dewey Date: 12/16/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert Movie
While there were tremendous inaccuracies, and some of them would have added
to the movie if they'd been correct, it was an OK movie. Not a Frank Cappra
movie, but an attempt at one. At least they mentioned the forward thinking
benefits that ACG provided their workers.
One true part that many viewers probably didn't believe was the letters.
I myself wrote letters to the Gilbert Company--not to praise them for their
toys, but to get parts for my much-abused 307 engine. Not only did I get a
reply from my handwritten letters, I got a parts list and when I ordered
them, the parts! What company today would do that?? Somewhere I have one
such letter, when I find it again, I'll scan it and post it (Gilbert
returned it with their response).
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22354 From: John Gibson Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: What is this stuff & how to attach bulbs (X-post)
Greetings:

Got my AM scale trainmasters yesterday and took one apart to see
what I need for my decoder installation. It looks like clear
silicon was used to attach the LEDs to the body and the wiring
harness to the engine. Is that what the stuff is?

Second question. I am replacing the LED's and adding a second
headlight and lights for the number boards (all bulbs). What is the
recommended way to attach these bulbs to the body shell?

Thank you for your advice.

John Gibson
Rocklin, CA

This message was also posted on the S-scale list.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22355 From: David Dewey Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert Movie
Hmm,
As has been pointed out to me, and somehow I'd overlooked it, there ARE two
companies today who DO answer customers' questions--interesting that they're
both S manufacturers; SHS and AM. And I'm certain that most, if not all, of
the S manufacturers do respond well to questions.
So I will rephrase the question--"What large, household-word type, company
would do that today?"
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22356 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop
The 697 trips, I feel, are more reliable. The electric track trips are more reliable still. I have about 7 trips wired into my layout so the trains can throw their own switches and activate a semaphore. I can run two trains at once without intervention and watch them wind through the various loops of my layout. I have all the track trip power leads running through a toggle switch. One flip of the switch cuts out all the trips and I can run the trains by hand.

Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: William Lange
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 9:27 PM
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop


My pleasure John! I've learned quite a bit as well.

Thanks again to Tom and Keith and everyone else who chimed in. I've had
this running a couple of days now and have had to tune and adjust the
696's several times. I've never used a 697 but they look more reliable.
Can anyone confirm that as fact?

I'm also thinking of wiring in the 'Sam' control button in parallel to
the trips for an override when they occasionally stick.

Bill Lange


-----Original Message-----
From: John Brockmann <hcopter51@...> [mailto:hcopter51@...]
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 2:42 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop


Thanks for bringing up the subject.Learned alot. Also having fun
watching for rear-enders.John B.

--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, William Lange <blange3@c...> wrote:
> Far be it from me to ask for advice and then disappear! I've been
> learning about block control, raiding the junk box and now have 2
trains
> on one loop all for the price of some dirty hands and a few hours of
> frustraion.
>
> I have a roof-less 'Sam the Semaphore Man' and a couple of 696 track
> trips keeping me on the edge of my seat! The kids and wife love it
and
> eventually I'll get some more reliable gear. But for now we're
having
> fun.
>
> Thanks to all who responded! Even Keith with his on-and-off list
> wise-cracks!
>
> Now if I can just figure out how to wire a smoke-in-tender unit!
>
> Bill Lange
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22357 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: MODEL RAILROAD POWER
Our North Penn S Gaugers club has been running
our modular layout with an 18B AC Gilbert transformer
and a Kurtz Craft DC system. Lately the Gilbert AC
has been overheating on the long hall and failed
two weeks ago. Now we can run old Gilbert on
DC but we also run AM and SHS engines with
sound units. Last weekend I bought a Model Rectifier
Dual control 270 watt unit. Some of the men are
concerned that MRC's unit with an output of over
20 volts will fry their sound boards. What capacitors
or resisters are best to hold the maximum AC output
to 15 volts? What rectifiers are best to convert to DC
when needed?

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn
Group: S-Trains Message: 22358 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1678
No, I am not on AOL...I use the computer for my work...At first I was on
Mediaone cable....It was too slow...I have been on DSL for the past two
years....And its tooo slow now...I visited friends up north...they have
AOL...wow...seems like yo wait forever for anything to happen...DSL is just
click...click...click..you have seen the ad where the guy goes thru the
net...and runs out!!!I can send out A large plot file in 20 seconds...other
forms would take 20 minutes....But it does cost 45.00 month...Anyone use the
Sat. System...Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: <boss31@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1678


> In a message dated 12/16/2002 8:10:28 PM Mountain Standard Time,
> S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
> >
> > From: "robert allen conner" <rcon7@...>
> > Subject: Re: Chat room
> >
> > Chris and John...at first I had A little trouble....but got it
> > working....It
> > works fine for me now...Keep trying...Its A great group of guys...Last
> > night
> > was kinda short though...Maybe some of the Computer guru's out there can
> > help more....Bob Conner
> >
>
> Bob, if you're on AOL you can try till you turn blue. You ain't gettin
there
> with 8.0. I have tried about 20 times, changing names and passwords. I
just
> get the same old back to the sign on page again and again. I too, gave up.
>
> Steve
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22359 From: Bull Gator Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Re: Oil Depot Photos Posted to the S-Trains Gallery
Roger,
The screen fabric I used is actually a woven wire fabric. I tried a couple of different craft adhesives that were supposed to stop frays, but they didn't work. I think probably because the wire is so fine and the "weave" is open, so there isn't much surface for the adhesive to attach. The next time I'm in the craft store, I'll look for some Fray Check and give it a try.
Thanks,
BG1
"Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@...> wrote:Here's a tip to help you with the fraying. Go to the fabric store and get
a little bottle of "Fray Check". My wife uses it all the time in her
sewing stuff. Just apply a little to the area and let dry BEFORE you cut
and you shouldn't have a problem.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO



> [Original Message]
> From: Bull Gator
> To: Howell S Jobbins
> Cc:
> Date: 12/16/2002 5:15:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Oil Depot Photos Posted to the S-Trains Gallery
>
>
> SteveJay,
> The fencing is mosquito screen fabric from Walmart. If you look closely
at the photos, you can see the fabric is woven in a running bond, not the
typical 45 degree pattern. This makes the pattern difficult to cut. If
you get to close to a cross in the pattern, the fabric will fray and
unravel. The fence sections are 1.5 inches high (8 feet scale) by anywhere
from 6 inches to 14 inches long. The posts are somewhat longer to fit into
holes drilled in the base. The posts are located 1.5 inches apart (8 feet
scale). The fabric pieces are 1.5 inches by the required running length.
Even cutting them out very slowly and carefully, I averaged one good
section for every four I started.
> The fence posts and rails are 0.035 inch styrene rod. They were
assembled using Testors Liquid Cement. I assembled the rails and poles for
a given section of fencing on a flat surface for better alignment, then
spray painted the assembly. I laid a piece of plastic cove molding to
serve as a berm and mounted the fence along the centerline of the berm by
drilling holes into the molding. I then just slipped the completed post
and rail sections into the holes and glued them in while maintaining a 1.5
inch height on the rails.
> I then attached the fence fabric one section at a time by taking some of
the fabric "threads" and tying the fence fabric to the posts and rails. If
you take a look at real chain link fence you can see how it is done. This
is tedious work and you must be extremely careful not to catch any of the
cut ends of the fence fabric or it will unravel and you are back to square
one.
> The last step was to glue the ballast stone to the berm. The ballst
stone was used to help keep the posts and the fencing in a nice, straight
line.
> Just like real chain link fencing, the fabric does not turn corners. It
is stopped at the end of each run and a new section begins around the
corner. I thought about inserting rods at the end of each run just like on
real chain link fencing, but you've got to stop somewhere .
> I have looked at the hobby shop kits that use wedding veil type fabric
for the fence material. The fabric is white and must be attached to the
rails/posts, then stretched, then painted. I think my system is about the
same amount of work but the end result is, IMHO, far superior to the kits.
Not only that - you can make tons of fence with a $6 roll of screen versus
$12 for a few feet with the kits!
> Good luck with your fencing projects!
> BG1
> Howell S Jobbins wrote:BG1,
>
> Nice work, I left a note asking about your technique for constructing the
> wire fencing. I note in a previous picture you had two runs, and turned
> the corner. Would like info on it's construction. Thanks, SteveJay.
>
> PS: You guys should add some pictures too. See ya'
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>






---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22360 From: jnr59@aol.com Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: '37 Ford Convertible in 1/64?
Does anyone know who makes this and how available it is? Its on ebay....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3100738890&category=16509


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22361 From: theodore weiler Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] '37 Ford Convertible in 1/64?
I think this is a Johnny Lightning issue of a couple of years ago.

Ted W.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22362 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop
Since I started I also have had to fine tune the 697's. I found that
the trip with the green wire has to be set just right in order for
the trip with the red wire to release properly.Wish I had room so I
could add more trips for switches and stuff. If I did that now I
would not be able to keep up with all the switching going on. John B.


--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, William Lange <blange3@c...> wrote:
> My pleasure John! I've learned quite a bit as well.
>
> Thanks again to Tom and Keith and everyone else who chimed in. I've
had
> this running a couple of days now and have had to tune and adjust
the
> 696's several times. I've never used a 697 but they look more
reliable.
> Can anyone confirm that as fact?
>
> I'm also thinking of wiring in the 'Sam' control button in parallel
to
> the trips for an override when they occasionally stick.
>
> Bill Lange
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Brockmann <hcopter51@a...> [mailto:hcopter51@a...]
> Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 2:42 PM
> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [S-Trains] Re: 2 Trains on 1 loop
>
>
> Thanks for bringing up the subject.Learned alot. Also having fun
> watching for rear-enders.John B.
>
> --- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, William Lange <blange3@c...> wrote:
> > Far be it from me to ask for advice and then disappear! I've been
> > learning about block control, raiding the junk box and now have 2
> trains
> > on one loop all for the price of some dirty hands and a few hours
of
> > frustraion.
> >
> > I have a roof-less 'Sam the Semaphore Man' and a couple of 696
track
> > trips keeping me on the edge of my seat! The kids and wife love it
> and
> > eventually I'll get some more reliable gear. But for now we're
> having
> > fun.
> >
> > Thanks to all who responded! Even Keith with his on-and-off list
> > wise-cracks!
> >
> > Now if I can just figure out how to wire a smoke-in-tender unit!
> >
> > Bill Lange
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22363 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Re: Oil Depot Photos Posted to the S-Trains Gallery
I don't know how delicate the edges of the fabric need to be you are working with in this application, but I do know that sometimes tailors will use pinking shears to cut a fabric so the ends don't fray.

Tim Brown

----- Original Message -----
From: Bull Gator
To: rogerpjr@... ; Howell S Jobbins
Cc: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Oil Depot Photos Posted to the S-Trains Gallery



Roger,
The screen fabric I used is actually a woven wire fabric. I tried a couple of different craft adhesives that were supposed to stop frays, but they didn't work. I think probably because the wire is so fine and the "weave" is open, so there isn't much surface for the adhesive to attach. The next time I'm in the craft store, I'll look for some Fray Check and give it a try.
Thanks,
BG1
"Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@...> wrote:Here's a tip to help you with the fraying. Go to the fabric store and get
a little bottle of "Fray Check". My wife uses it all the time in her
sewing stuff. Just apply a little to the area and let dry BEFORE you cut
and you shouldn't have a problem.

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO



> [Original Message]
> From: Bull Gator
> To: Howell S Jobbins
> Cc:
> Date: 12/16/2002 5:15:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Oil Depot Photos Posted to the S-Trains Gallery
>
>
> SteveJay,
> The fencing is mosquito screen fabric from Walmart. If you look closely
at the photos, you can see the fabric is woven in a running bond, not the
typical 45 degree pattern. This makes the pattern difficult to cut. If
you get to close to a cross in the pattern, the fabric will fray and
unravel. The fence sections are 1.5 inches high (8 feet scale) by anywhere
from 6 inches to 14 inches long. The posts are somewhat longer to fit into
holes drilled in the base. The posts are located 1.5 inches apart (8 feet
scale). The fabric pieces are 1.5 inches by the required running length.
Even cutting them out very slowly and carefully, I averaged one good
section for every four I started.
> The fence posts and rails are 0.035 inch styrene rod. They were
assembled using Testors Liquid Cement. I assembled the rails and poles for
a given section of fencing on a flat surface for better alignment, then
spray painted the assembly. I laid a piece of plastic cove molding to
serve as a berm and mounted the fence along the centerline of the berm by
drilling holes into the molding. I then just slipped the completed post
and rail sections into the holes and glued them in while maintaining a 1.5
inch height on the rails.
> I then attached the fence fabric one section at a time by taking some of
the fabric "threads" and tying the fence fabric to the posts and rails. If
you take a look at real chain link fence you can see how it is done. This
is tedious work and you must be extremely careful not to catch any of the
cut ends of the fence fabric or it will unravel and you are back to square
one.
> The last step was to glue the ballast stone to the berm. The ballst
stone was used to help keep the posts and the fencing in a nice, straight
line.
> Just like real chain link fencing, the fabric does not turn corners. It
is stopped at the end of each run and a new section begins around the
corner. I thought about inserting rods at the end of each run just like on
real chain link fencing, but you've got to stop somewhere .
> I have looked at the hobby shop kits that use wedding veil type fabric
for the fence material. The fabric is white and must be attached to the
rails/posts, then stretched, then painted. I think my system is about the
same amount of work but the end result is, IMHO, far superior to the kits.
Not only that - you can make tons of fence with a $6 roll of screen versus
$12 for a few feet with the kits!
> Good luck with your fencing projects!
> BG1
> Howell S Jobbins wrote:BG1,
>
> Nice work, I left a note asking about your technique for constructing the
> wire fencing. I note in a previous picture you had two runs, and turned
> the corner. Would like info on it's construction. Thanks, SteveJay.
>
> PS: You guys should add some pictures too. See ya'
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
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>
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>






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22364 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Re: 770 loading platform
Thanks to all for the advice on the loader. I sprayed the chute with
wd-40, attached power to its own transformer, and now the boxes
just "fly" off the chute. Now I only have to keep the moving end of
the chute from hitting the trains as they pass. Thanks again
everyone,John B.

--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "robert allen conner" <rcon7@b...>
wrote:
> Don't forget to make sure it is slick....the ramp..I think there is
A
> product that sprays on to make things sliker...not oil....Also you
might put
> A small chip of "speed" in the mans mouth!!!! Bob
>
> BTW....You know when A womans on Speed?
>
> "She folds her dirty laundry"......( I caught one of my ex
girlfriends doing
> just that !!! )( I also used to give her A pair of nail
clippers....let her
> mow to front yard...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 22365 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: chain link fence
For those of you looking to build model chain link fence, i saw a product
in a store this week that might work well. It was an HO chain link fence
kit by Plastruct,, and was priced at approx. $8.00. It contained a mexh
made of plastic, plus other fitttings.

Plastruct products are sold at hobby and art supply stores that cater to
architects and draftsmen, and by mail order from hobby suppliers.

Please let me know if you use it successfully.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 22366 From: fleskovitz@aol.com Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Gilbert movie
My family and I enjoyed The Man Who Saved Christmas very much.
Hey--Gilbert's also The Man Who Lived in Paradise! Hopefully, the movie will
be back again next Christmas--and each year after that! Anything that
introduces A.C. Gilbert to a wider audience can only be good. By the way, I
thought the most glaring error was the text at the very end of the movie
which referred to Gilbert's "erector sets" without capitalizing "Erector" as
it should be. Someone should have proofed that.

Seasons greetings to all!

Frank Leskovitz



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22367 From: Knight, Gene Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: plastic repair
Anyone know of a product for repairing plastic mounting posts? I got an engine at a train how that needs a post repaired. I saw one page that mentions using a plastic resin and a straw for a form. All I need is the product......the only one I found was $80 for a kit and I don't need quite that much!

Thanks!

Gene
Group: S-Trains Message: 22368 From: Gerry Siegel Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Re: plastic repair
Gene,
You might want to look into a product called cyanopoxy. I have had very good luck with it in a variety of applications. It is available from Mike Rose whose site is www.mrhobby.com.
Gerry Siegel
Mountville PA

Knight, Gene wrote:

> Anyone know of a product for repairing plastic mounting posts? I got an engine at a train how that needs a post repaired. I saw one page that mentions using a plastic resin and a straw for a form. All I need is the product......the only one I found was $80 for a kit and I don't need quite that much!
>
> Thanks!
>
> Gene
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 22369 From: knockbill Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: plastic repair
I've had good luck with JB weld... you can get it at Pep Boys, or
some hardware stores... it drills & taps well, and drys dark gray to
black for plastic engine repairs....
Good luck
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 22370 From: Knight, Gene Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: thanks!
Thank you for all the ideas and fast replies!

Gene
Group: S-Trains Message: 22371 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1679
In a message dated 12/17/2002 10:48:23 AM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:

>
> From: jnr59@...
> Subject: '37 Ford Convertible in 1/64?
>
> Does anyone know who makes this and how available it is? Its on ebay....
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3100738890&
> category=16509
>

Wow, it's at $16+. They were made by Racing Champions about 3-4 yr ago. They
sold for $3.99 at that time. (at Target) I have a few of them. Hard to
believe they have quadrupled in value in that short a time. Somebody must
really want one badly.

Steve.....S-'n-S



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22372 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Columbus, OH Area
I will be taking a little time off and traveling to
the Columbus, Ohio area during Christmas week. Does
anyone know of any good S friendly hobby stores or
layouts in the Columbus area?

Thanks,
Joe


=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 22373 From: Chris Zizzo Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert Movie
"What large, household-word type, company
would do that today?"

SHS and American Models are household words, in my warped litle household .
. . and yours, too!

Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 22374 From: Howard Sheffield Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: F-7 Offer
Hi group
Due to an unfortunate situation, a customer of mine has had to cancel his pre-purchase
of an ABB set of SHS F-7's.
If anyone out there is interested in taking advantage of the $25 per unit gift
certificate originally offered by SHS on this pre order and order a set of F-7's
can contact me off list. Obviously, the total gift certificates on this deal
is $75 and can be for any 3 F-7 units per SHS agreement. The first person to
commit and send a check for $150 will get this deal.
My thanks to SHS for helping this customer and offering to change the road name
to whatever another customer wants.

Howard Sheffield
Howard' S Trains
_______________________________________________________________________
Internet Access, Shared & Dedicated Web Hosting.
Colocation and Domain Name Registration at http://www.lanset.net
Group: S-Trains Message: 22375 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: Water Tower
Greetings to all! Santa brought an early Christmas gift, a Marx bubbling
water, just like the one we had 50 years ago. Unfortunately, it is missing
the wires and bulb. My questions for the group ... I know one wire attaches
to the socket base, where does the second wire connect? What voltage bulb
should be used? Was this designed to work off of track power or wired
directly to the Base/16V post? Thanks for any help you can provide!
Best Wishes, Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 22376 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 12/17/2002
Subject: chat
One more here for giving up on the chat. I was successful at getting my name
on the list of chatters but was always linked back to the sign in page. I'm
on compuserve (which by the way owns AOL now also). I'd love to participate
in chat again if it becomes accessable.

Jacques
Group: S-Trains Message: 22377 From: IronHorse Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: chain link fence
I make my chainlink fence out of window screen using wire for the posts.

Roger Hinds
HTTP://www.travel.to/cofa
Group: S-Trains Message: 22378 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Gilbert 1949 Catalog now online...
Hello Again,

To continue the expansion of my website, I have added to the 1949 catalog
to the 1952 catalog I posted a few days ago. (I know people will let me
know if the catalog is not 1949.) :-)

Like the previous catalog, this one is in high resolution 1024 x 768 form.
Great for viewing and downloading / printing. The text is easily read, so
take a look. A nice way to look at a catalog you don't own, or save some
wear and tear on one you do!

In addition to American Flyer Trains, all of the other Gilbert toys of
that time are shown.

http://www.myflyertrains.org is the place...

Thanks again, Chuck
Group: S-Trains Message: 22379 From: WNHOLCOMB@aol.com Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Florida Train Shows
Anyone know of any train shows during January and February in the Tampa/St.
Pete/Bradenton/Sarasota areas?

Neil Holcomb


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22380 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: Florida Train Shows
Several...look in model railroader...bob
----- Original Message -----
From: <WNHOLCOMB@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 10:57 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Florida Train Shows


> Anyone know of any train shows during January and February in the
Tampa/St.
> Pete/Bradenton/Sarasota areas?
>
> Neil Holcomb
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22381 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert 1949 Catalog now online...
Chuck....Its A 1944....HA HA...All joking aside...ITS
GREAT....MORE!!!!!!!!!! Now I can leave my mint ones in the
folders.....Looking for more.....Also how do you do them...I have several
catalogs, like Bild A Set, Etc that I would like to do...We also need
Instruction sheets too
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Harrington" <myflyertrains@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 10:49 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Gilbert 1949 Catalog now online...


> Hello Again,
>
> To continue the expansion of my website, I have added to the 1949 catalog
> to the 1952 catalog I posted a few days ago. (I know people will let me
> know if the catalog is not 1949.) :-)
>
> Like the previous catalog, this one is in high resolution 1024 x 768 form.
> Great for viewing and downloading / printing. The text is easily read, so
> take a look. A nice way to look at a catalog you don't own, or save some
> wear and tear on one you do!
>
> In addition to American Flyer Trains, all of the other Gilbert toys of
> that time are shown.
>
> http://www.myflyertrains.org is the place...
>
> Thanks again, Chuck
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22382 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: Gilbert 1949 Catalog now online...
Very nicely done. Could you scan some instruction sheets for
accessories? Gabe for instance? Thanks,John B.


--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Harrington
<myflyertrains@c...> wrote:
> Hello Again,
>
> To continue the expansion of my website, I have added to the 1949
catalog
> to the 1952 catalog I posted a few days ago. (I know people will
let me
> know if the catalog is not 1949.) :-)
>
> Like the previous catalog, this one is in high resolution 1024 x
768 form.
> Great for viewing and downloading / printing. The text is easily
read, so
> take a look. A nice way to look at a catalog you don't own, or save
some
> wear and tear on one you do!
>
> In addition to American Flyer Trains, all of the other Gilbert toys
of
> that time are shown.
>
> http://www.myflyertrains.org is the place...
>
> Thanks again, Chuck
Group: S-Trains Message: 22383 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: AF catalogs on line
Chuck: this is really enjoyable stuff. Keep it up!!!

I think it would be fun for us as a group to take a look at each catalog as
it appears and post any interesting things we notice.

Here's mine: 1952 was the year the turret transformers first appeared, and
the 1952 turret transformers were different from later years. The red and
green lamps did not have covers; colored bulbs were used. In fact, the
holes in the transformer case for the bulbs are smaller, and the covers
will not fit. Also, there was a different decorative plate featuring a
steam loco and a diesel, rather than the red and blue shield logo with
stripes. Bob Tufts alerted me to this. As it happens, the roller arm
design and the wiring of the circuit breakers were changed after 1952 too.

What do you guys see?

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 22384 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Real or Repro?
**((I have been told that this car is a repro, anyone have any idea?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&category=480&item=1926218200&rd=1))**


The link didn't work for me!

Rick.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22385 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: Real or Repro?
Link did not work for me either.
John B

--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Evans" <comic@d...> wrote:
> **((I have been told that this car is a repro, anyone have any idea?
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
> ViewItem&category=480&item=1926218200&rd=1))**
>
>
> The link didn't work for me!
>
> Rick.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22386 From: John G Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: MODEL RAILROAD POWER
=> What capacitors or resisters are best to hold the maximum AC
output to 15 volts?

You can use a bridge rectifier to drop the AC voltage by 1.6 volts
and still get AC output by wiring it a special way. The way the
rectifiers work, they give a constant volt drop regardless of load.
Resistors also give a drop, but its drop varies depending on the
load, which is probably not desireable for what you want. Also, you
could add 2 bridge rectifiers in series to get a drop of 3.2 volts.

I did this with my 16B transformer to lower the 18 volt output of the
fixed post. I used a single 25 amp 50 volt bridge rectifier from
Radio Shack (part 276-1185). You need to bolt this rectfier to a
heat sink or it will get very hot.

If anyone is interested, I could post a sketch of how this works.

John Gasal




>
> Staying on the NPSG branchline
> of NASG track, Glenn
Group: S-Trains Message: 22387 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: Real or Repro?
copy the number...paste it into the search...i have looked at it...It looks
good....it is too straight for me...almost every 46 I have seen has some
warp...this one looks like brand new which makes me wonder...I would only
buy it if I could have somekind of return after examination...Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: <hcopter51@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 5:47 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Real or Repro?


> Link did not work for me either.
> John B
>
> --- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Evans" <comic@d...> wrote:
> > **((I have been told that this car is a repro, anyone have any idea?
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
> > ViewItem&category=480&item=1926218200&rd=1))**
> >
> >
> > The link didn't work for me!
> >
> > Rick.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22388 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: AF catalogs on line
In a message dated 12/18/02 4:04:02 PM, jarcho@... writes:

<< What do you guys see? >>

The "Silver Streak" No. 405 appears in 1952 only. It is shown with red,
purple, and yellow name decals on its sides (red on pages 14 and 20, purple
on page 3, and yellow on the cover). For extra credit, which variations were
actually built? For some more extra credit, what was the originally intended
road name for the 405 before Gilbert changed it solely to "American Flyer"?

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 22389 From: eric.reis Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: S stuff I have for sale on ebay
I put the following SHS and Flyer cars on ebay


ShS Refer IGS (RSSVP)

The following finds the refer from there you can use “sellers other
auctions”

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=16509&item=3100930069
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=16509&item=310093006
9>

The following 2 are pretty rare

Canadian National Boxcar (seltzers)

Southern Pacific Boxcar (Seltzers) ( with Ace frame and trucks)

Pair of 921 C,B,&Q hoppers AF


All high rail with knuckles but if someone asks I will send along scale
wheels and Kadees …Well not for the AF hoppers and you would have to find
your own floor for the CN as it is Flyer. Or I’ll knock a couple bucks off
shipping for anyone on the list here. And that applies to the books, too.


I also have a Convention SHS NKP refer no. 52002 new in box for $50
shipped anywhere USA.

Thanks for looking.


Eric Reis,
Kenmore, Wa.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22390 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: MTH Checkerboard Tower
Hello everyone,

I have been off the list since April...but now am back in the "train
mood" full speed ahead. I have a question for you all. I went to the
hobby store last week and got the lastest MTH catalog, the 2003 version.


In the Accessory section it shows the "Checkerboard Water Tower" of
American Flyer fame....with a plastic shack! Are they really making
this now??

I know they made the one with the metal shack last year to compete with
Lionels version. But I knew nothing about the "plastic shack" version.

OR did they just use the wrong picture in the catalog?

Thanks in advance,

Wayne
Golden Spike American Flyer Club
Group: S-Trains Message: 22391 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Checkerboard Tower
In a message dated 12/18/02 9:50:10 PM, afvair@... writes:

<< ....with a plastic shack! Are they really making this now?? >>

Yup! They're in stores.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 22392 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Checkerboard Tower
Thanks RB for the information. WOW can you imagine that are real
Checkerboard Tower with a shack...all brand new!! Do they look exactly
the same?

I was a little dissappointed with my Lionel version. It has a big fat
yellow tub in it, instead of the original thin white one. Mine
wouldn't even bubble. I had to take it in to an authorized Lionel
repair place already.

Wayne

RBubeck327@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/18/02 9:50:10 PM, afvair@... writes:
>
> << ....with a plastic shack! Are they really making this now?? >>
>
> Yup! They're in stores.
>
> RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 22393 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Checkerboard Tower
In a message dated 12/18/02 11:19:23 PM, afvair@... writes:

<< WOW can you imagine that are real Checkerboard Tower with a shack...all
brand new!! Do they look exactly the same? >>

Close enough for horseshoes and hand grenades. There are minor differences
that will distinguish the vintage from the new. The black portions (roof) are
shinier and the checkerboard has a whiter white and redder red on the new
issues.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 22394 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Checkerboard Tower
In a message dated 12/18/02 11:19:23 PM, afvair@... writes:

<< WOW can you imagine that are real Checkerboard Tower with a shack...all
brand new!! Do they look exactly the same? >>

Close enough for horseshoes and hand grenades. There are minor differences
that will distinguish the vintage from the new. The black portions (roof) are
shinier and the checkerboard has a whiter white and redder red on the new
issues.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 22395 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Checkerboard Tower
<< WOW can you imagine that are real Checkerboard Tower with a shack...all
brand new!! Do they look exactly the same? >>

Close enough for horseshoes and hand grenades. There are minor differences
that will distinguish the vintage from the new. The black portions (roof) are
shinier and the checkerboard has a whiter white and redder red on the new
issues.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 22396 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Checkerboard Tower
I see that AOL wants to send multiple messages tonight!!!

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 22397 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/18/2002
Subject: Christmas Trains are finally running!!!
Well,...better late then never!!
Just tonight, I finally set up the Christmas village and got two trains running. My Bachmann On30,
"NORTH POLE EXPRESS",...is doing a little off center oval, if that makes sense,...my Flyer 303 loco is smokin' around the On30 on a 18-piece square. The On30 doesn't run parallel to the Flyer loop, is what I am trying to say! The 303 is pulling three Bachmann On30 cars that have been converted with SHS trucks,...tomorrow I will dig out my Flyer Christmas cars.
And of course I'll be running my good ol' 282 loco,...it's been 40 years since that first picture of
me with the 282 loco! (as seen, of course in the "TOY TRAIN MEMORIES" Christmas book,..page 33....oh, I've mentioned that before?? :^)
Hope all is well with everyone this holiday season!! And to the chat folks,...sorry I have been missing chat,....not that you miss me, but I miss you guys!!

Merry Christmas.....and keep the trains running!!


Rick.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22398 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: HEY.....BIG SALE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just got back from Lowes Building Center....They have A line of Buildings
called "Carol Towne"...Some of the boxes still have the makers name on the
back "LeMax"...( they are as good as dept 56 ) NOW FOR THE GOOD
PART......1/2 PRICE !!!!! went on sale yesterday....Picked up several nice
Stores for 6.00+ EACH...found nice stop lights two for 3.00...Little big,
but could be cut down...The salesman said if I wanted any more I had better
come back fast as they expected to sell out today....Bob Conner
Group: S-Trains Message: 22399 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: By Popular demain, another year's catalog posted...
I just added the Gilbert catalog for the year 1941 to my web site. You
guys need to look at this one! Yes, I know, S did not start until 1946,
right? Well, some of you are going to be real surprised to see what A.C.
was selling in 1941!

http://www.myflyertrains.org
Group: S-Trains Message: 22400 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Re: By Popular demain, another year's catalog posted...
In a word-"fascinating"! So he sold some of the same accessories for
both "o" and "s"? Don't know why that surprises me. Got any more
catalogues to post? Keep em comming. Great Job,John B.

--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Harrington
<myflyertrains@c...> wrote:
> I just added the Gilbert catalog for the year 1941 to my web site.
You
> guys need to look at this one! Yes, I know, S did not start until
1946,
> right? Well, some of you are going to be real surprised to see what
A.C.
> was selling in 1941!
>
> http://www.myflyertrains.org
Group: S-Trains Message: 22401 From: Thomas Stoltz Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: detectors
Train Gang,

I'm trying to get a MTH infrared detector to work. I'm coming to the conclusion that it won't work in a sun lit room. I've tried shading it and/or filtering the light, but nothing seems to work. It's either on all the time (too much light) or off (too much shading).

In the past, I've had it working on my layout but this is for the Xmas layout and the room is bright during the day.

Any ideas? Thanks guys.

Tom


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22402 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Loop wiring
Ok wiring experts,question. How do you wire two loops for independent
train operation when they are connected by switches? I think I know
the answer but would like more input from the Experts before I try
it. Thanks in advance,John B.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22403 From: Rhett T. George Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Control the volts
- SeaSon'S GreetingS -

Glenn asked a fine question about keeping the voltage low enough to
avoid worry. John Gasal came up with a great suggestion of putting
a bridge rectifier in series with one transformer lead. Use AC pins
on the bridge for current in and current out, short the + pin to the
- pin. This gives 1.6 V drop per bridge put in series with the AC
termianls on the transformer.

Yes, I have tired out a transformer or two. Looks like I need to
measure the wire gauges, lay in a small supply, and set up the lathe
to count the old windings, secondary and primary, as they come off,
then count the new ones as they go on.. I have one old 100 W tranny
that used to run a pair of 7 or 8 hr days at a show with no problem.
Now it is too hot after 1 hr.

Somewhere, likely a ham radio fleamarket (hamfest), I bought a control
transformer for industrial use, rated at 16 VAC, about 200 VA (over
10 A). This has run most or all the accessories at several shows
without getting more than 10 or 20 F higher than the ambient temp.
It is fused and at least twice fuses have blown because of a mis-
wired accessory. Keep the accessory current out of the transformer
and have longer transformer life.

For problem chasing and for getting information about a locomotive
or accessory, a clamp-on ammeter snapped around one wire in an active
AC circuit will tell you the current demand. Find one with a 6 A or
lesser range for equipment operating properly. A 12 A to 60 A range
may be needed for trouble shooting. Number one electrical help wizard
at train shows, good wife Joanna, gave me the RS version of clamp-on
AC ammeter for Christmas maybe 8 - 10 years ago.

CheerS and Merry ChristmaS.

Rhett
Group: S-Trains Message: 22404 From: keith kuzma Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: plastic buildings
I just got a junk lot that has a bunch of Plasticville
style building parts.Instead of pins like Plasticville
it uses slots and tabs.Each wall has a slot halfway
and then a tab on the other half.The buildings are
decent and came with a large lot of Flyer.Can anyone
tell me who made them? Happy Holidays!! Keith

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22405 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Re: plastic buildings
Try Littletown...However some of Plasticville had that system as they bought
out Littletown in the 50's...Bob Conner
----- Original Message -----
From: "keith kuzma" <keefer1_us@...>
To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 2:54 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] plastic buildings


> I just got a junk lot that has a bunch of Plasticville
> style building parts.Instead of pins like Plasticville
> it uses slots and tabs.Each wall has a slot halfway
> and then a tab on the other half.The buildings are
> decent and came with a large lot of Flyer.Can anyone
> tell me who made them? Happy Holidays!! Keith
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22406 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Re: Real or Repro?
There are straight ones out there, I have one and I know John Pyfer has the
painted version with the missing line (which is pictured on page 184 of the
last edition of the G.B. AF book) and I have seen others. The black print
on the painted version looks darker than that on the unpainted version.
This is the rarer version with that line missing.
Harwood


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22407 From: eric reis Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Re: HEY.....BIG SALE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I went into Lowes in my area (Lynnwood, Wa) today and they have the same deal
and have literally over hundred "carol town" buildings and many more of the
people, boats,etc. the buildings seem closer to s gauge (roughly)than the
people appear to be. They also have a lot of the Coca-Cola series buildings
which seen a little larger

The Michaels chain stores have the Leemax stuff for 40% off this week but are
cleaned out.

One tip about Michaels is that they have a ad in the sunday paper (they have
extras in the store) each giving 40% off any one item. I use these for x-acto
saws, Knives, paint and all the other crafts things I use. They have these
coupons all year.

Happy Holidays

Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa.



On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 10:20:23 -0500 robert allen conner <rcon7@...>
wrote:

> I just got back from Lowes Building
> Center....They have A line of Buildings
> called "Carol Towne"...Some of the boxes still
> have the makers name on the
> back "LeMax"...( they are as good as dept 56 )
> NOW FOR THE GOOD
> PART......1/2 PRICE !!!!! went on sale
> yesterday....Picked up several nice
> Stores for 6.00+ EACH...found nice stop lights
> two for 3.00...Little big,
> but could be cut down...The salesman said if I
> wanted any more I had better
> come back fast as they expected to sell out
> today....Bob Conner
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and
> accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22408 From: eric reis Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Re: HEY.....BIG SALE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I went into Lowes in my area (Lynnwood, Wa) today and they have the same deal
and have literally over hundred "carol town" buildings and many more of the
people, boats,etc. the buildings seem closer to s gauge (roughly)than the
people appear to be. They also have a lot of the Coca-Cola series buildings
which seen a little larger

The Michaels chain stores have the Leemax stuff for 40% off this week but are
cleaned out.

One tip about Michaels is that they have a ad in the sunday paper (they have
extras in the store) each giving 40% off any one item. I use these for x-acto
saws, Knives, paint and all the other crafts things I use. They have these
coupons all year.

Happy Holidays

Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa.



On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 10:20:23 -0500 robert allen conner <rcon7@...>
wrote:

> I just got back from Lowes Building
> Center....They have A line of Buildings
> called "Carol Towne"...Some of the boxes still
> have the makers name on the
> back "LeMax"...( they are as good as dept 56 )
> NOW FOR THE GOOD
> PART......1/2 PRICE !!!!! went on sale
> yesterday....Picked up several nice
> Stores for 6.00+ EACH...found nice stop lights
> two for 3.00...Little big,
> but could be cut down...The salesman said if I
> wanted any more I had better
> come back fast as they expected to sell out
> today....Bob Conner
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and
> accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22409 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: holiday layout
Hi guys,

My class delivered an American Flyer Christmas layout to a local senior
center yesterday. A month-and-a-half of volunteer lunch half-hours and a
nonrunning 307 donated by a TCA member turned into a beautiful foam
under-the-tree layout built according to the plans in December's Collecting
Toy Trains. It included handpainted buildings, a gift box flatcar, a boxcar,
a caboose, and several Christmas trees. The kids worked their hearts out.

We delivered the layout, treats, and the kids even sang Christmas tunes
(unaided by their talentless teacher). It was pretty cool to watch today's
6th graders do something for someone else without thinking about themselves.

Happy holidays,
Jacques
Group: S-Trains Message: 22410 From: pushpinss Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Re: Real or Repro?
VERY RARE and produced in 1982, I was told.



--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, HOwingsiii@a... wrote:
> There are straight ones out there, I have one and I know John Pyfer
has the
> painted version with the missing line (which is pictured on page
184 of the
> last edition of the G.B. AF book) and I have seen others. The
black print
> on the painted version looks darker than that on the unpainted
version.
> This is the rarer version with that line missing.
> Harwood
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22411 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Re: HEY.....BIG SALE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Eric.....40% works...use them all the time...Got my Airbrush that way....But
if something is already on sale they won't honer it....The building are by
Lemax I think as I found that name on some of the stuff I bought
today....But at 6.00 per building....CHEAP...Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: " eric reis" <finnhill@...>
To: "robert allen conner" <rcon7@...>
Cc: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>; <s-scale@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] HEY.....BIG SALE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


> I went into Lowes in my area (Lynnwood, Wa) today and they have the same
deal
> and have literally over hundred "carol town" buildings and many more of
the
> people, boats,etc. the buildings seem closer to s gauge (roughly)than the
> people appear to be. They also have a lot of the Coca-Cola series
buildings
> which seen a little larger
>
> The Michaels chain stores have the Leemax stuff for 40% off this week but
are
> cleaned out.
>
> One tip about Michaels is that they have a ad in the sunday paper (they
have
> extras in the store) each giving 40% off any one item. I use these for
x-acto
> saws, Knives, paint and all the other crafts things I use. They have
these
> coupons all year.
>
> Happy Holidays
>
> Eric Reis
> Kenmore, Wa.
>
>
>
> On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 10:20:23 -0500 robert allen conner
<rcon7@...>
> wrote:
>
> > I just got back from Lowes Building
> > Center....They have A line of Buildings
> > called "Carol Towne"...Some of the boxes still
> > have the makers name on the
> > back "LeMax"...( they are as good as dept 56 )
> > NOW FOR THE GOOD
> > PART......1/2 PRICE !!!!! went on sale
> > yesterday....Picked up several nice
> > Stores for 6.00+ EACH...found nice stop lights
> > two for 3.00...Little big,
> > but could be cut down...The salesman said if I
> > wanted any more I had better
> > come back fast as they expected to sell out
> > today....Bob Conner
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor:
> > http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the Flyer you desire...books and
> > accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> > s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22412 From: Paul Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Email Address Change - final notice
This (s_trains at yahoo.com) is my primary address, my old
yorke@... account, is being shutdown after years of faitfull
service. They eliminated the local dialup number. One of the
disadvantages of rural living.
Have a happy Holiday, hope to see you at the Sunday night chat.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22413 From: John G Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Re: detectors
Tom,

I had similar problems with a couple of MTH detectors. My room
wasn't sun lit, but had overhead lights that would mess up
detection. I ended up replacing them with Lionel infrared detectors
that work much better and look nicer.

John Gasal


--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Stoltz" <tstoltz@g...> wrote:
> Train Gang,
>
> I'm trying to get a MTH infrared detector to work. I'm coming to
the conclusion that it won't work in a sun lit room. I've tried
shading it and/or filtering the light, but nothing seems to work.
It's either on all the time (too much light) or off (too much
shading).
>
> In the past, I've had it working on my layout but this is for the
Xmas layout and the room is bright during the day.
>
> Any ideas? Thanks guys.
>
> Tom
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22414 From: Ted Larson Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: AF and S-MOD
The RASG (Rochester NY) has S-MOD modules with AF accessories on some
sidings for showing off toy trains at train shows. Does anybody have
experience with how to wire AF accessories so that they are compatible
with S-MOD wiring standards?

Ted Larson
Buy American,
The job you save may be your neighbors!

________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22415 From: Dan Brindell Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Checkerboard Tower
Just in case you haven't seen it already: you should also check out the
Water Tower by Gilbert Reproductions at:
http://www.ssstrains.com/GilbertReproductions1.htm

Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne Broadhead" <afvair@...>
To: "S Trains" <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 9:48 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] MTH Checkerboard Tower


> Hello everyone,
>
> I have been off the list since April...but now am back in the "train
> mood" full speed ahead. I have a question for you all. I went to the
> hobby store last week and got the lastest MTH catalog, the 2003 version.
>
>
> In the Accessory section it shows the "Checkerboard Water Tower" of
> American Flyer fame....with a plastic shack! Are they really making
> this now??
>
> I know they made the one with the metal shack last year to compete with
> Lionels version. But I knew nothing about the "plastic shack" version.
>
> OR did they just use the wrong picture in the catalog?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Wayne
> Golden Spike American Flyer Club
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22416 From: colleenandrob Date: 12/19/2002
Subject: Question about AF 326 Hudson
Hello,

I bought my childhood engine the 326 Hudson on ebay a couple of
months ago and it runs great. My question has to do with the
tender. The tenders wheel frame looks like the one on the 325 and
the 322. In my AF repair book the picture shows a different wheel
frame as well as a different trailing truck frame. I'm pretty sure I
have an original piece and not a 322 renumbered as a 326...at least I
hope so. Does anyone into American Flyer know it different wheel
frames might have been used? There is another 326 Hudson on ebay
right now that has the same tender wheel frame as mine so I'm
wondering. Any thoughts on this?...and thanks for all possible help!

Rob
Group: S-Trains Message: 22417 From: waldootten Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: AM track and insulated blocks
Getting set to build the BIG layout.

How would you break an oval to install RFG's 1202 automation device
on American Models track? I just bought a ton of AM track (over 400
feet) and I know on the original AF you'd use fiber pins to separate
blocks. AM track has metal rail joiners and no non-conducting
alternative. Am I missing something here?

Also, without using an original Flyer 90-degree crossover, how would
you install a set of diamonds using AM track?

Thanks in advance,

Phil K
Group: S-Trains Message: 22418 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: AF scale wheel conversion parts???
I bought a junk box because I saw some S truck parts
(aluminum wheels). Well it looks like there are 2
sized drivers in white metal and 2 types of valve
gear. The wheels have 2 holes and there are 2 sizes
of weights that fit the wheels. I have some axles,
but they don�t look insulated. So the brase tires
would need to be insolated. What did I buy?

Thanks in advance Jim Sleeth
PS I also need a small power unit for my 4-4-0-engine
project. A one-axle unit would do.


__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22419 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: AF and S-MOD
Ted,
Just finished a Flyer/S-helper layout for display tonight and tomorrow
night. Why not make the "accessories" a separate circuit with separate power
on one or two modules. AS long as you have isolated track power bars, you
should be OK. Your sidings could easily be isolated from the operating
trackage. We fought with the log loader (car) for two nights before placing
it back in its box. The problem is/was a cross feed somewhere not easily
found in the time we didn't have.
So now the children of all ages can push buttons to light lights, blow
horns and whistles etc. Ooops, forgot the sawmill by Flyonel. Motive power
will be A/F and possibly AM. Freights by S-Helper as they produce almost
zero drag and have much detail. Don, Thanks for your help.
By the way, we are in "Grasselville" suburban Conestoga in southern
Lancaster Co, PA. Open 6:30 til 8:30 tonight and tomorrow night. 91
Hilltop Dr., Conestoga.
Forgot to mention the two outdoor trains we will be hauling pasengers on.
Open cars, weather permitting.
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22420 From: Mike Vana Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: AF Steam Loco Axles
I have a 332AC whose rear drivers slip on the axle,
which, of course, is the one with the gear. So it
sits still and won't move (like a smoke in the boiler
version of a smoke in tender steamer in neutral).
I imagine the splines on the axle and/or the drivers
are worn smooth. Super glue didn't work. I have
plenty of axles from previously junked steamers,
especially Atlantics. My easiest source of an axle
would be a set of drivers from an engine like a
Franklin where the bottom of the frame unscrews and
drivers come out together. Are all the geared axles
on AF S gauge steam locos the same? I know that I've
seen plastic and metal drivers on the same steam loco,
so I would guess they are.

Has anybody else had this problem? I've had loose
wheels and loose tires before, but this is the first
time I've seem a steam loco just quit moving like this!

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22421 From: tomsmitty2001 Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: slipped drivers
Mike.....before you give up completely on re-using the original
driver centers, give it one more try but instead of using super glue
( which I personally have never had anny success at other than
sticking my fingers together ) go to a good auto parts place and get
a small bottle of Loc-Tite. This is the industrial world's answer to
acc, and when the surfaces are properly prepared, you'll not be able
to get the wheels off the axles. Loc-Tite comes in several
formulations, the 262 would be fine. Clean the mating surfaces of
the axle and the wheel center using small files to get all the old
oils, greases and acc gone, you really need CLEAN surfaces for this
to work! Finish up with lacquer thinner and q-tips until there is no
discoloration on the cotton. One drop of Loc-Tite on the wheel's hole
and another on the axle and press together. The beauty of your
situation is that the Loc-Tite gives you some working time to get
everything lined up and quartered correctly. That's been my bugaboo
in the past doing as you are contemplating now. I would hazard to
guess that originally, only the axle was splined, the wheel center
was not, and slightly undersize to boot. As the wheel was pressed
onto the axle, the splines on the axle made mating splines in the
wheel, holding the wheel tight and setting up the 90 deg. quartering
necessary for the engine to run smoothly. It'd be only by chance
that you'd end up with another set of wheel centers where the
orientation of their splines would match the orientation that was
there originally and thus keep your drivers properly quartered. Give
it a try and if it fails, well then shame on me and a hearty round
of "I told you so's"

Regard'S',

Smitty
Group: S-Trains Message: 22422 From: Rhett T. George Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Accessory power
- SeasonS GreetingS -

On the home layout, the log loader spur has one rail which is shared by the
track circuit and the loader circuit. The power comes from two transformers
and thanks to the conductive isolation which most transformers provide,
neither circuit knows the other is there. The common rail is the one on
which the metal wheels of the log unloader car roll. The track circuit is
rectified to DC, switched for polarity reversing, and connected to the two
rails, The unloader/loader circuit runs from its own transformer (usually
a small AF transformer with a broken p;ointer knob or a badly grooved top
winding layer).

Transformers (except autotransformers are wonderful for isolating circuits
on the layout.

CheerS and merry ChristmaS.

Rhett
Group: S-Trains Message: 22423 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: AF Steam Loco Axles
Hi,

I can't answer your question directly and sincerely hope someone else can. However, here's an idea. I use epoxy to fix wheels that are broken away from the whitewall hubs. Before you replace the axel, you might consider mixing up an epoxy and trying that. Allow plenty of time past what the manufacturer suggests as a cure time. It just might hold, and if you're going to replace the axel anyway, what do you have to lose? Does anyone on this list have a good reason why this guy shouldn't try my idea before replacing the axel?

I recently bought a cherry 332AC at the York, PA show last fall for one sweet deal. I love it, even though it's the early model without the whistle and without the pulmor. It's Classic Flyer to me.

Good luck!
Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Vana
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 9:40 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] AF Steam Loco Axles


I have a 332AC whose rear drivers slip on the axle,
which, of course, is the one with the gear. So it
sits still and won't move (like a smoke in the boiler
version of a smoke in tender steamer in neutral).
I imagine the splines on the axle and/or the drivers
are worn smooth. Super glue didn't work. I have
plenty of axles from previously junked steamers,
especially Atlantics. My easiest source of an axle
would be a set of drivers from an engine like a
Franklin where the bottom of the frame unscrews and
drivers come out together. Are all the geared axles
on AF S gauge steam locos the same? I know that I've
seen plastic and metal drivers on the same steam loco,
so I would guess they are.

Has anybody else had this problem? I've had loose
wheels and loose tires before, but this is the first
time I've seem a steam loco just quit moving like this!

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22424 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: AF Steam Loco Axles
More likely, the hole in the wheel is oversized. Sometimes CAREFULLY applied
Loc-Tite will solve the problem. Be aware that the Loc-tite can also ooze
onto the frame and lock it all up.
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22425 From: retiredradiodj Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: AF Smoke Oil
I am trying to locate some original Cedar smelling smoke oil for my
AF Smokers. I remember some being on the market a while back, and
someone gave me the formula for making my own using essential Cedar
oil, but I lost the formula. Anyone know what it is? I operate all
AF "S", "HO" and the original 3 rail Flyer stuff. the 027 is the
outer layout, "S" is slightly raised, and the "HO" is on top of the
Mountain. Thanx and Regards, Chuck
Group: S-Trains Message: 22426 From: Ron Inscho Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: AF Steam Loco Axles
Your problem is not the axles but the wheels THEY ARE SHOT replace them &
quarter all the wheels & all should be OK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Vana" <amflyer@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 9:40 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] AF Steam Loco Axles


I have a 332AC whose rear drivers slip on the axle,
which, of course, is the one with the gear. So it
sits still and won't move (like a smoke in the boiler
version of a smoke in tender steamer in neutral).
I imagine the splines on the axle and/or the drivers
are worn smooth. Super glue didn't work. I have
plenty of axles from previously junked steamers,
especially Atlantics. My easiest source of an axle
would be a set of drivers from an engine like a
Franklin where the bottom of the frame unscrews and
drivers come out together. Are all the geared axles
on AF S gauge steam locos the same? I know that I've
seen plastic and metal drivers on the same steam loco,
so I would guess they are.

Has anybody else had this problem? I've had loose
wheels and loose tires before, but this is the first
time I've seem a steam loco just quit moving like this!

Mike Vana Omaha, NE.

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 22427 From: Roy Hoffman Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: AF and S-MOD
Sounds like a job for the NASG S-Mod Layout Coordinator.

Trouble is, we don't have one yet since no one has volunteered.

Roy

--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, Ted Larson <mhrreast1@j...> wrote:
>
> The RASG (Rochester NY) has S-MOD modules with AF accessories on
some
> sidings for showing off toy trains at train shows. Does anybody
have
> experience with how to wire AF accessories so that they are
compatible
> with S-MOD wiring standards?
>
> Ted Larson
> Buy American,
> The job you save may be your neighbors!
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
> Only $9.95 per month!
> Visit www.juno.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 22428 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: loose drive wheels
Last time this topic came up WE came up with 6, that's right, SIX!!!
different methods of fixing it, all of which probably work great. One of
the list's greatest moments.

Tom Jarcho

(and by the way, AF steam loco geared axles ARE interchangeable, and most
Flyer drivers are quartered at 88 degrees, not 90 degrees.)

Here are the six methods, plus info on fixing loose tires too:

Steam Loco Wheels

Subject: [S-Trains] 322 Hudson loose wheel

I have had good luck replacing loose drive wheels using steel filled epoxy.
There's gotta be a post on this in the archives.

LOOSE WHEEL
- Remove all rods.
- Remove loose wheel and clean and degrease splined area of axle and wheel
hole and surrounding area. ~91% Isopropyl alcohol is ok for this. Clean
axle splines with a wire brush.
-Push a file into axle splines to try to raise some metal. Cut many gouges
into the wheel hole with the tip of a needle file, also to raise metal, and
give the epoxy something to grab.
-Punch a hole in the center of a small (1"x2")piece of index card; cut a
slit from the hole to the edge with a sharp knife. This piece of card is
to catch excess epoxy in back of the wheel, before the stuff can get into
the alxe hole. It is to be torn away after glueing -- hence the slit.
-Position a make up mirror on the far side of the chassis. Place the
small piece of card on the axle and then finger press the loose wheel part
way into place. The drive wheels must be quartered correctly. All the
wheels on one side of the loco must be 88 degrees ahead of all the wheels
on the other side, or the rods will jam the wheels.Position the loose wheel
so that it is correctly lined up with the other wheels on the loco. Take
your time and get it right. The makeup mirror allows you to see both sides
of the chassis at once.
-Mix up a small amount of steel filled epoxy and apply it to the splined
area of the axle and the unfilled part of the wheel hole with a toothpick.
Work it in well.
-Push the loose wheel into final position on the axle with a c clamp or vise.
-When the epoxy begins to set (2 min or so), yank out the little piece of
card. If there's a drop of epoxy on the outer end of the axle, wipe it
off.
-you can apply mild heat, up to 150 degrees F , to the joint with a lamp
for an hour or 2 while the epoxy is curing. Let the epoxy cure overnight.
-If the wheel isn't quartered properly, pul it off with a wheel puller,
remove the epoxy with a wire brush, etc, and redo the process.

LOOSE TIRE
For loose tires, i recommend Slo Zap adhesive. This has two advantages
over crazy glue :it fills gaps and doesn't set instantly. Pull a loose
tire all the way inward toward the chassis, clean out both sides of the
joint with q-tips, alcohol, fantastik, or whatever, apply Slo Zap with a
toothpick, and pry the tire into place with a flat tipped screwdriver. Now
here's the key: while the zap hasn't set yet, turn the chassis upside down
and finger spin or run the motor so the wheel turns: this makes it easy to
see any shimmy in the tire and correct it
so the tire is straight. If you don't get this right the loco will wobble
down the track like a pregnant duck.

Tom Jarcho

From: "donabrams" <donabrams@...>
Subject: [S-Trains] Loose drivers:

All,
I haven't seen this solution posted yet -- it's how I fix them.
Remove the loose driver. Place it on the flat anvil part of your bench vise.
Take a hammer and hit the center metal part of the driver. Use your best
judgement here as to how hard or how many times. The metal is maleable
enough to reduce the size of the hole so that it will grab the axle good and
tight when requartered and pressed back on. I've had no repeat failures.
Don


From: boss31@...

Run a 1/8" tap through the wheel hub and it will re-spine itself when you put
it back on. Make sure you have it quartered correctly. Make sure the wheel
and axle are perfectly free of grease/oil (fingernail polish remover and a
Q-tip works good) use a drop of super glue (gel type) now and it should last
another 30 yrs.
I do them all the time like this.

Regards....Steve


From: david_horn@...

Loose rim - - as already recommended be sure clean and grease free. I apply
ZapAGap or Future Glue with a Micro brush, to the exposed surface of the
white insulator, then lift the metal rim to seat evenly around on white
insulalator with two screwdrivers from underneath (gently) or a wheel
puller. With the armature removed you can check to see how true the rim is
right away. Slower setting glue probably helps, but I can't find any slow
set Z-A-G around here.

Loose hub - - remove all the way off axle, clean axle and inside surface of
hub with 91% pure Isoprophl alcohol, lightly set wheel on axle's end in
properly quartered location, "paint" inside surface of hub with ZapAGap (use
Microbrush not Q-tip, no fuzz left behind), close vise across hubs and axle
to set fully onto axle, be certain to measure correct gauge (distance
between wheels, 18.5-18.75 mm back of flange to back of flange). I allow
overnight drying just to be sure fully cured. If you can slip the hub back
onto the axle real easily with your hand, then other measures recommended
work OK. I sometimes find it helps to remove the other side's driver, and
swap sides (left driver to the right side, right to the left). Follow the
same procedures as above. Quarter one side, thinly coat inside survface of
hub with glue, and set with vise. Come back later and do the other. The
swapping of sides for the drivers gives them both a "fresher" seat on the
axle. You'll probably see that right away when you try to press them on
with your hand in their new quarter position.

From: "Rhett T. George" <rtg@...>

- Greeting`S' -

Like Philip Johnson, I have had one wheel loosen on the axle (along
with many tires loosen on the wheels). As Chris suggests, I clean
away oil, grease, and dirt with a solvent. Since the wheel is loose,
it can be removed from the axle for cleaning. Then I used "LocTite"
`Stud and Bearing Sealer,' careful to have it contact only the axle
and hole of the wheel and careful to get the wheel quartered. That
was for or five years ago on a 332 - no problems since.

Cheer`S'
Rhett

From: loubaldi@...

I have found Devcon makes an excellent product for
repairing loose 'AF' drive wheels. I used this product to
repair a loose wheel on a '312' engine last year.
This product is also used by the Utility I work for and is
specifically made for these types of repair.
It is similiar to Loctite but rated better.
It comes in two strengths. Superlock '2609' General Purpose and
Superlock '2680' High Strength. Their web site is listed below.
http://www.devcon.com/sitemapframe.html




X-eGroups-Return:
sentto-26283-11335-980318177-jarcho=rcn.com@...
From: Gerald R Dobbs <grdobbs@...>


A quick and easy way to tighten a lose wheel to the axle.

Using a small brass shim .001" or thicker as required, around the axle,
shim should extend out beyond the axle and pinched (and twist ) together
to form a point to guide the wheel on the axle, quarter the wheel and
press the wheel on the axle. Shim stock assortments are available at
auto supply stores and/or hardware stores.

Jerry 77-11644

From: SMITTY@...

Hi Tom........... a while back there was a lengthy thread about loose
wheels, and in one of your messages, you made mention of quartering
the wheels to 88 degrees. I would like to know how this comes
about. I know I've read this same statement by others in the past,
and I also know I've read that it's not true ! Perhaps in the world
of ACG s-gauge, it works, and works well, after all, the front ends
of the side rods are considerably elongated. But as someone who does
steam locomotive restoration and maintenance for a living, the 1:1
stuff uses 90 deg. EXACTLY for quartering. The only thing I can
think of for where the 88 deg. comes from is perhaps ( and I'm not
certin about this because none of the locmotives I've ever worked on
have Baker or Walschart valve gear ) from the positioning of the
crank arm for out-side valve gear ( the crank that mounts on the main
crank pin ). The 2 deg. difference on our s-gauge chooch's works
out to about 0.011", not a lot, and since I don't do a lot of s-gauge
requartering, I'm not sure if it makes a difference in the way they
run or not. So that's my 2 cents-worth on the subject ! Oh, yes, and
I much favor NOT upsetting the axles or wheel holes, it can make the
wheels wobble if the upsetting is over done and if the axles are re-
worked too much, they don't go thru the frame holes very well.
Loctite 272 is the ticket, it doesn't set up as fast as "SuperGlue",
you don't end up with your fingers stuck together or to the parts,
and when the surfaces are properly prepared, it's about a zillion
times stronger. So there, now I've got in 3 cents worth !

Regard"s",

Smitty
Group: S-Trains Message: 22429 From: joe messinger Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Steamer axels
The ends of the axels on steam locomotives are "parallel knurled" which
produces raised ridges of steel around the circumference of the axel.
"Splines" are the reverse of parallel knurling where groves are cut.

Steamer wheels are die cast with a relative soft metal. The holes for the
axels are slightly smaller than the diameter of the the axel. When the
wheels are pressed on to the axels, the knurling cuts into the wheel and
forms a mechanical lock (axel to wheel) which allows the axel torque to turn
the wheel(s).

When the parallel knurling on the axel becomes worn,usually caused by wheel
removal,replacement and wheel slippage,the only permanent fix I have had
success with is to replace the axel. I have tried using a small chisel to
reform the knurling but have had only limited success with that. After
repeated removal,replacement and slipping, the wheel's axel holes become
worn and enlarged to a point where they will slip even on new axels.
Sometimes, the axel holes can be repaired by placing a 3/8" dia. steel ball
bearing over the hole and tapping it with a hammer. Support the wheel
center on a solid base like an anvil or vise flat and hold the bearing with
needle nose pliers.

Adhesives will work,I'm sure, but if both the wheel hole and the axel's
knurling are badly worn, I think replacement of the axel and wheel center is
the only long lasting alternative. Even a little slippage will throw the
drivers out of quarter which causes a hammering effect on the wheel's axel
holes speeding up the slipping process.

If the tires slip on the wheel centers, try drilling through the
tire,whitewall insulator and into the wheel center with a 1/16" drill bit.
Drill two holes 180* opposed and use a 1/16" plastic (polystyrene) rod
(available at hobby stores) with a drop of CAC glue on it to fill the hole.
Clip the rod off flush with the tire. Don't use anything metal to make the
repair as that will cause an electrical short.

Merry Christmas!

Joe Messinger


_________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22430 From: trainman634 Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: American Flyer Uncouplers
How many different uncouplers did American Flyer make?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22431 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer Uncouplers
I'm aware of five:

1) Metal tab on original Flyer made in Chicago

2) Knife coupler - unweighted

3) Knife coupler - weighted

4) Knuckle coupler

5) Pikemaster coupler (a dummy knuckle)

Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: trainman634 <carl4260@...>
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 12:23 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] American Flyer Uncouplers


How many different uncouplers did American Flyer make?


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All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22432 From: pushpinss Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: loose drive wheels
Now this really is RE-inventing the wheel. So much time, with so
little to do!

--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, jarcho@r... wrote:
> Last time this topic came up WE came up with 6, that's right, SIX!!!
> different methods of fixing it, all of which probably work great.
One of
> the list's greatest moments.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> (and by the way, AF steam loco geared axles ARE interchangeable,
and most
> Flyer drivers are quartered at 88 degrees, not 90 degrees.)
>
> Here are the six methods, plus info on fixing loose tires too:
>
> Steam Loco Wheels
>
> Subject: [S-Trains] 322 Hudson loose wheel
>
> I have had good luck replacing loose drive wheels using steel
filled epoxy.
> There's gotta be a post on this in the archives.
>
> LOOSE WHEEL
> - Remove all rods.
> - Remove loose wheel and clean and degrease splined area of axle
and wheel
> hole and surrounding area. ~91% Isopropyl alcohol is ok for this.
Clean
> axle splines with a wire brush.
> -Push a file into axle splines to try to raise some metal. Cut
many gouges
> into the wheel hole with the tip of a needle file, also to raise
metal, and
> give the epoxy something to grab.
> -Punch a hole in the center of a small (1"x2")piece of index card;
cut a
> slit from the hole to the edge with a sharp knife. This piece of
card is
> to catch excess epoxy in back of the wheel, before the stuff can
get into
> the alxe hole. It is to be torn away after glueing -- hence the
slit.
> -Position a make up mirror on the far side of the chassis. Place
the
> small piece of card on the axle and then finger press the loose
wheel part
> way into place. The drive wheels must be quartered correctly. All
the
> wheels on one side of the loco must be 88 degrees ahead of all the
wheels
> on the other side, or the rods will jam the wheels.Position the
loose wheel
> so that it is correctly lined up with the other wheels on the
loco. Take
> your time and get it right. The makeup mirror allows you to see
both sides
> of the chassis at once.
> -Mix up a small amount of steel filled epoxy and apply it to the
splined
> area of the axle and the unfilled part of the wheel hole with a
toothpick.
> Work it in well.
> -Push the loose wheel into final position on the axle with a c
clamp or vise.
> -When the epoxy begins to set (2 min or so), yank out the little
piece of
> card. If there's a drop of epoxy on the outer end of the axle,
wipe it
> off.
> -you can apply mild heat, up to 150 degrees F , to the joint with a
lamp
> for an hour or 2 while the epoxy is curing. Let the epoxy cure
overnight.
> -If the wheel isn't quartered properly, pul it off with a wheel
puller,
> remove the epoxy with a wire brush, etc, and redo the process.
>
> LOOSE TIRE
> For loose tires, i recommend Slo Zap adhesive. This has two
advantages
> over crazy glue :it fills gaps and doesn't set instantly. Pull a
loose
> tire all the way inward toward the chassis, clean out both sides of
the
> joint with q-tips, alcohol, fantastik, or whatever, apply Slo Zap
with a
> toothpick, and pry the tire into place with a flat tipped
screwdriver. Now
> here's the key: while the zap hasn't set yet, turn the chassis
upside down
> and finger spin or run the motor so the wheel turns: this makes it
easy to
> see any shimmy in the tire and correct it
> so the tire is straight. If you don't get this right the loco will
wobble
> down the track like a pregnant duck.
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
> From: "donabrams" <donabrams@h...>
> Subject: [S-Trains] Loose drivers:
>
> All,
> I haven't seen this solution posted yet -- it's how I fix them.
> Remove the loose driver. Place it on the flat anvil part of your
bench vise.
> Take a hammer and hit the center metal part of the driver. Use your
best
> judgement here as to how hard or how many times. The metal is
maleable
> enough to reduce the size of the hole so that it will grab the axle
good and
> tight when requartered and pressed back on. I've had no repeat
failures.
> Don
>
>
> From: boss31@a...
>
> Run a 1/8" tap through the wheel hub and it will re-spine itself
when you put
> it back on. Make sure you have it quartered correctly. Make sure
the wheel
> and axle are perfectly free of grease/oil (fingernail polish
remover and a
> Q-tip works good) use a drop of super glue (gel type) now and it
should last
> another 30 yrs.
> I do them all the time like this.
>
> Regards....Steve
>
>
> From: david_horn@b...
>
> Loose rim - - as already recommended be sure clean and grease
free. I apply
> ZapAGap or Future Glue with a Micro brush, to the exposed surface
of the
> white insulator, then lift the metal rim to seat evenly around on
white
> insulalator with two screwdrivers from underneath (gently) or a
wheel
> puller. With the armature removed you can check to see how true
the rim is
> right away. Slower setting glue probably helps, but I can't find
any slow
> set Z-A-G around here.
>
> Loose hub - - remove all the way off axle, clean axle and inside
surface of
> hub with 91% pure Isoprophl alcohol, lightly set wheel on axle's
end in
> properly quartered location, "paint" inside surface of hub with
ZapAGap (use
> Microbrush not Q-tip, no fuzz left behind), close vise across hubs
and axle
> to set fully onto axle, be certain to measure correct gauge
(distance
> between wheels, 18.5-18.75 mm back of flange to back of flange). I
allow
> overnight drying just to be sure fully cured. If you can slip the
hub back
> onto the axle real easily with your hand, then other measures
recommended
> work OK. I sometimes find it helps to remove the other side's
driver, and
> swap sides (left driver to the right side, right to the left).
Follow the
> same procedures as above. Quarter one side, thinly coat inside
survface of
> hub with glue, and set with vise. Come back later and do the
other. The
> swapping of sides for the drivers gives them both a "fresher" seat
on the
> axle. You'll probably see that right away when you try to press
them on
> with your hand in their new quarter position.
>
> From: "Rhett T. George" <rtg@e...>
>
> - Greeting`S' -
>
> Like Philip Johnson, I have had one wheel loosen on the axle (along
> with many tires loosen on the wheels). As Chris suggests, I clean
> away oil, grease, and dirt with a solvent. Since the wheel is
loose,
> it can be removed from the axle for cleaning. Then I used "LocTite"
> `Stud and Bearing Sealer,' careful to have it contact only the axle
> and hole of the wheel and careful to get the wheel quartered. That
> was for or five years ago on a 332 - no problems since.
>
> Cheer`S'
> Rhett
>
> From: loubaldi@a...
>
> I have found Devcon makes an excellent product for
> repairing loose 'AF' drive wheels. I used this product to
> repair a loose wheel on a '312' engine last year.
> This product is also used by the Utility I work for and is
> specifically made for these types of repair.
> It is similiar to Loctite but rated better.
> It comes in two strengths. Superlock '2609' General Purpose and
> Superlock '2680' High Strength. Their web site is listed below.
> http://www.devcon.com/sitemapframe.html
>
>
>
>
> X-eGroups-Return:
> sentto-26283-11335-980318177-jarcho=rcn.com@...
> From: Gerald R Dobbs <grdobbs@j...>
>
>
> A quick and easy way to tighten a lose wheel to the axle.
>
> Using a small brass shim .001" or thicker as required,
around the axle,
> shim should extend out beyond the axle and pinched (and twist )
together
> to form a point to guide the wheel on the axle, quarter the wheel
and
> press the wheel on the axle. Shim stock assortments are available
at
> auto supply stores and/or hardware stores.
>
> Jerry 77-11644
>
> From: SMITTY@t...
>
> Hi Tom........... a while back there was a lengthy thread about
loose
> wheels, and in one of your messages, you made mention of quartering
> the wheels to 88 degrees. I would like to know how this comes
> about. I know I've read this same statement by others in the past,
> and I also know I've read that it's not true ! Perhaps in the world
> of ACG s-gauge, it works, and works well, after all, the front ends
> of the side rods are considerably elongated. But as someone who
does
> steam locomotive restoration and maintenance for a living, the 1:1
> stuff uses 90 deg. EXACTLY for quartering. The only thing I can
> think of for where the 88 deg. comes from is perhaps ( and I'm not
> certin about this because none of the locmotives I've ever worked on
> have Baker or Walschart valve gear ) from the positioning of the
> crank arm for out-side valve gear ( the crank that mounts on the
main
> crank pin ). The 2 deg. difference on our s-gauge chooch's works
> out to about 0.011", not a lot, and since I don't do a lot of s-
gauge
> requartering, I'm not sure if it makes a difference in the way they
> run or not. So that's my 2 cents-worth on the subject ! Oh, yes,
and
> I much favor NOT upsetting the axles or wheel holes, it can make the
> wheels wobble if the upsetting is over done and if the axles are re-
> worked too much, they don't go thru the frame holes very well.
> Loctite 272 is the ticket, it doesn't set up as fast as "SuperGlue",
> you don't end up with your fingers stuck together or to the parts,
> and when the surfaces are properly prepared, it's about a zillion
> times stronger. So there, now I've got in 3 cents worth !
>
> Regard"s",
>
> Smitty
Group: S-Trains Message: 22433 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: New AF NP Boxcar...
I just had to share,....yesterday I bought a new AF -NP "Share in Freedom" red-white-blue, boxcar. Now that in it's self,...isn't actually exciting, however I bought it from my local train store! I popped in to buy my friend a
gift certificate and was about to leave and the owner said, "Here is something you might be interested in!" She then set a box on the counter. I swear, through the storm clouds we've had lately, a bright ray of light, beamed out of the heavens and directly onto this familiar blue and yellow box!
Could it be? A piece of American Flyer rolling stock? In THIS store?? I picked it up and admired the boxcar,...the owner's husband said,..."Whatta ya think?". I looked at the $54.95 price tag and said, "Not bad for thirty bucks!",....he said I could have it for $39.99,.....before I could say anything, he then said, "Ok,... $38.50!" ..of course I said I'd take it! They had ordered it for a fella that thought it was a larger scale car, and were about to send it back. They have ordered SHS for me,( after I hinted they need some quality "S" stuff, they will order but not stock as of yet).. they also handle MTH, and I forgot, they do have some Lionel. (The are mainly a HO and N store). I mentioned the AF Christmas cars, and she said that of course we
can order them. I'm not really sure how long they have handled Lionel,...I never thought to order new Flyer
through them! I have ordered a 2003 Christmas car,...EARLY! Still need a 2002!

I always joke when I pop into the store,..."Was that the American Flyer truck I saw just leaving?" I did buy my Bachmann On30 set through
them,...but I never imagined I would walk out of their store with an AF piece!!

Speaking of AF Christmas cars,...I need to get 'em out and run 'em! I do have one gripe about the 2001 Christmas car,...you need a magnifying
glass to see the "2001",...and it doesn't say "American Flyer"!!!!



HO-HO-HO

Rick

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22434 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer Uncouplers
Excluding prewar;
1. Thin shank link coupler (no weight) - 1946
2. Thick shank link coupler (no weight) - 1947, approx.
3. Thick shank link w/brass weight - 1948, approx.
4. Thick shank link w/black weight 1949-52, approx.
5. Early knuckle coupler attached by a rivet - 1952, ( came on early
production K325 and K335 sets, engines and cars.)
6. Standard operating knuckle coupler 1952 - 62
7. Non operating solid knuckle coupler (Used on some cheaper cars) 1958-59
8. Pikemaster coupler - 1960-66


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22435 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: AF UNcouplers
AT LAST I find a group of guys whose eyesight is worse than mine!!!

Question was about UNCOUPLers, and I count 6 different AF ones in S.

Uncoupling track, 1946 or 7
Metal remote control uncoupler with the little box, yellow or green, with
leads or terminal posts
metal manual uncoupler with the red push button
Black plastic remote control uncoupler
Black plastic manual uncoupler
Pikemaster uncoupler.

If there are more than one type of Pikemaster uncoupler, I don't know about
it. Never used Pikemaster.

Incidentally the strike blades on the two black plastic models are hot ,
I.e. connected to one rail, which can cause some extra arcing sometimes.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 22436 From: bilfrazier@aol.com Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: Rail joiners
For the insulated rail joiners, Atlas is producing some code 148 ones for
their O scale line, part # 7093, $2.35 a package of 16. I have some on order
at my local hobby shop but they are not yet available from Atlas. Walthers
shows them as backordered.
For the diamonds, AM announced some a LONG time ago, but has not produced
them yet. I'm still waiting for some too. Maybe if enough of us ask Ron about
them he will get them out.

Bill Frazier

In a message dated 12/20/02 8:20:33 AM Eastern Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:

> Message: 20
> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 08:21:58 -0000
> From: "waldootten <waldootten@...>" <waldootten@...>
> Subject: AM track and insulated blocks
>
> Getting set to build the BIG layout.
>
> How would you break an oval to install RFG's 1202 automation device
> on American Models track? I just bought a ton of AM track (over 400
> feet) and I know on the original AF you'd use fiber pins to separate
> blocks. AM track has metal rail joiners and no non-conducting
> alternative. Am I missing something here?
>
> Also, without using an original Flyer 90-degree crossover, how would
> you install a set of diamonds using AM track?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Phil K
>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22437 From: HOWARD WESLEYIII Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] AF UNcouplers
----- Original Message -----
From: "HOWARD WESLEYIII" <carl4260@...>
To: <jarcho@...>
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] AF UNcouplers


> Hi Tom,
> Do you know the model number of the black plastic manual uncoupler? I
> remember seeing them in magazines years ago. But I never see any for sale
on
> Ebay. Thanks for your help. Carl
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <jarcho@...>
> To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 5:06 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] AF UNcouplers
>
>
> > AT LAST I find a group of guys whose eyesight is worse than mine!!!
> >
> > Question was about UNCOUPLers, and I count 6 different AF ones in S.
> >
> > Uncoupling track, 1946 or 7
> > Metal remote control uncoupler with the little box, yellow or green,
with
> > leads or terminal posts
> > metal manual uncoupler with the red push button
> > Black plastic remote control uncoupler
> > Black plastic manual uncoupler
> > Pikemaster uncoupler.
> >
> > If there are more than one type of Pikemaster uncoupler, I don't know
> about
> > it. Never used Pikemaster.
> >
> > Incidentally the strike blades on the two black plastic models are hot ,
> > I.e. connected to one rail, which can cause some extra arcing sometimes.
> >
> > Tom Jarcho
> >
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22438 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Royal Blue
I recently acquired a Royal Blue cast hand rail version #350. My
questions is it has The Royal Blue printed on both the engine & tender,
and does anyone know how rare this might be? According to the TM price
guide it is a "5" in rarity, but no price given. Can anyone help me? Did
the Royal Blue come with this printing on both the wire hand rail & cast
hand rail versions like mine?

Thanks!

Mike Leahy
Group: S-Trains Message: 22439 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: Pregnant Ducks
Tom....I am curious....How does A pregnant Duck waddle....Does she go to the
left...or to the right...I would think that with the CG modified she would
go straight, but nod up and down...Bob

CG= center of gravity
Group: S-Trains Message: 22440 From: lou342ac Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: Rail joiners
Bill/Phil,
I have recently purchased Atlas #7093 insulated rail joiners &
#7091 nickel silver rail joiners. I purchased them from 'The Forrest
Hill Station' Rt 24 & Jarretsville RD, Forrest Hill MD 21050.
Tel: 410-893-1089. These rail joiners work well with American Models
track.
By the way this shop keeps a fair amount of s gauge equipment in
stock and is owned by Charlie Getscher a first rate guy.
Lou


By the way
--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, bilfrazier@a... wrote:
> For the insulated rail joiners, Atlas is producing some code 148
ones for
> their O scale line, part # 7093, $2.35 a package of 16. I have some
on order
> at my local hobby shop but they are not yet available from Atlas.
Walthers
> shows them as backordered.
> For the diamonds, AM announced some a LONG time ago, but has not
produced
> them yet. I'm still waiting for some too. Maybe if enough of us ask
Ron about
> them he will get them out.
>
> Bill Frazier
>
> In a message dated 12/20/02 8:20:33 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
> > Message: 20
> > Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 08:21:58 -0000
> > From: "waldootten <waldootten@a...>" <waldootten@a...>
> > Subject: AM track and insulated blocks
> >
> > Getting set to build the BIG layout.
> >
> > How would you break an oval to install RFG's 1202 automation
device
> > on American Models track? I just bought a ton of AM track (over
400
> > feet) and I know on the original AF you'd use fiber pins to
separate
> > blocks. AM track has metal rail joiners and no non-conducting
> > alternative. Am I missing something here?
> >
> > Also, without using an original Flyer 90-degree crossover, how
would
> > you install a set of diamonds using AM track?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Phil K
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22441 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: In Search of Chicks!
Hello Group,

As some of you are aware, I am assembling the LVM poultry car in my
somewhat limited spare time. One end of the car is a bunch of
chicken cages. Paul Yorke was kind enough to send me several Ertl
1/64 scale chickens for this car, but I need more chicks!!

I've looked in all sorts of stores, hobby shops, on eBay, you name
it - but no chicks have been located yet. I'd really like to load it
up with chickens, so I'm looking for close to 100 more chickens! So
if only 1 in every 6 of you in this group were to send me 1 chicken
each - I'd have all I need!! But seriously, if anyone has some 1/64
chicks you'd be willing to part with, please contact me off-list.

Thanks for your help!

BG1
Group: S-Trains Message: 22442 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: In Search of Chicks!
Well Bull,....yer asking the wrong man here! I've been single for six years!
Badda-Boom,...tough room,...but really folks, all seriousness aside,...
Plasticville sells a repro farm set,..."chicks" and things,...I bought one on sale at my local train
store,...AH!,...another score at my local store that sells a lot of ,...ugh!..HO!!

I had the set as a kid,...lost it along the way,....so I couldn't pass this one up for 1/2 price!

Send me your snail mail,....and just maybe I could let go a couple of my Ertl "Chicks".


Rick.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22443 From: starr4274 Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: K-Line 0 Guage 1/64 scale 4-8-8-4 Big Boy
Does anyone have any ideas on how to convert this engine so it will
operate on s-guage track? If so, I would like to hear from you at
starr007@.... Thanks, J.R.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22444 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: multiple transformers(was transformer phasing)
Roger Petrella asked Chris Zizzo why one would want more than one
transformer, connected in phase of course, powering the track.

Well Roger, one reason is that you might want to run trains different ways
on the same layout.


Here's a simple example: say you have a big figure eight. now you add
some switches and curves so that if you throw the switches right you get
two oval routes out of the two halves of the eight, skipping the crossing..
To run separate trains on them you need two linked transformers. When you
throw the switches so you have a figure eight route, either transformer can
power it.

There are many situations like this that arise when layouts start to get
complex. Using a common ground sytem and power switching AF turnouts with
sense switches implanted, handles them effortlessly without a lot of block
section wiring..

Hope this helps.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 22445 From: David Dewey Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: AF UNcouplers
One more, rather rare variation, I believe to be of around 1950 production.
It looks like the standard clip-on uncoupler with connection nuts (not just
wire leads) but the box is black, and often brass, not steel. Also the
lifting bars are rolled over on their top surface.
Don'tcha just love trivia!!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22446 From: David Dewey Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: loose drive wheels
Before anyone tries switching split chassis axles with regular production,
there IS a difference (sorry Tom, you were probably thinking about that
Futon when you posted!)
The split chassis drive axles are not stepped like the regular production
ones are (regular production axles are larger in diameter on one side of the
gear splining). The wheel splined area is the same on all the axles, though,
so you could put plastic drive wheels on the earlier axles, and vice-versa.
I would change out the axle, as the splines must be at least worn. If
you change out wheels and tires, be aware that there are two different
diameter drive wheels, and the difference is in the flanged tire. They are
(basically) pre-pullmor and pullmor.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22447 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: In Search of Chicks!
BG1, do you have any Tractor Sales Corp.(TSC) stores in your area, they have
plenty.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22448 From: waldootten Date: 12/20/2002
Subject: Re: Rail joiners
> For the insulated rail joiners, Atlas is producing some code 148
ones for their O scale line, part # 7093, $2.35 a package of 16. I
have some on order at my local hobby shop but they are not yet
available from Atlas. Walthers shows them as backordered.
> For the diamonds, AM announced some a LONG time ago, but has not
produced them yet. I'm still waiting for some too. Maybe if enough
of us ask Ron about them he will get them out.
>
> Bill Frazier


************
Thanks, Bill -- Hey, if we're going to make requests to Ron for
diamonds, might as well ask for both 90- and 45-degree, right?

Just a thought.

Phil K
************
Group: S-Trains Message: 22449 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] Digest Number 459 and switch radii
Hi Don:
Are these the newly designed switches that will take both scale and
high-rail wheels? I assume these are a direct replacement for the AF
switches and thus have a radius for the curved part of about 19"??? I
also understand that two larger size switches are in the works. Which
are they and will they have the recommendations from the NMRA for curve
radii (thanks to Mike Scivoletti comments some time ago) as per the
following table:

Switch Number 4 5 6 7
Curve radius (in) 21 36 58 67

I seem to remember an earlier e-mail discussion about the radii of
turnouts, but anything over yesterday tends to get lost, stored in a
file that I can't find, or is readily accessible (however, with a little
searching I found Mike's comments on where to find the information in
the table above.)!
Tx for info.
Rance Velapoldi

Don Thompson wrote:

>Dear Wallace.,
> The #3 switches have been ordered and we will make twice as many
>manual switches. We expect the final engineering sample in the next few
>days. Production will begin after Chinese New Year and we were told
>that they would leave the factory later that month.
>
>Don
>
>Wallace Tabor wrote:
>
>
>
>> Please make a large production run on the #3 switches.
>>
>>Wally Tabor
>>
>>
>>
>
>-- -- Don Thompson
>S Helper Service Inc.
>http://www.showcaseline.com
>1.800.465.0303
>2002 Christmas Car, 2 & 3 bay PS-2s & Composite hoppers are now
>shipping!
>http://www.showcaseline.com/3bayps2_in_stock.html
>http://www.showcaseline.com/2bayps2_in_stock.html
>http://www.showcaseline.com/CompositeHoppers/compositehoppers.html
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>showcaseline-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22450 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line 0 Guage 1/64 scale 4-8-8-4 Big Boy
I think this would be interesting to all, so please post on the group
list. However, I do think someone sent in an e-mail with the info on
it! I checked my locomotive e-mail files, but don't have it. Anyone
else remember reading something about this?
Rance Velapoldi

starr4274 wrote:

>Does anyone have any ideas on how to convert this engine so it will
>operate on s-guage track? If so, I would like to hear from you at
>starr007@.... Thanks, J.R.
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22451 From: Walt Danylak Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line 0 Guage 1/64 scale 4-8-8-4 Big Boy
Rance and List Members,

I sent an email to K-Line a few weeks ago regarding the Big Boy.
Their reply was that they would forward the information to their R&D
department. Since that time I've heard through the grapevine that K-
Line will produce about 300 full S gauge versions of the Big Boy. I
have no idea if this is true or not. If anyone on the list has more
info, please share it with us.

Walt Danylak
Group: S-Trains Message: 22452 From: srgriggs Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line 0 Guage 1/64 scale 4-8-8-4 Big Boy
--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "starr4274 <starr007@f...>"
<starr007@f...> wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone have any ideas on how to convert this engine so it will
> operate on s-guage track? If so, I would like to hear from you at
> starr007@f... Thanks, J.R.

I haven't seen one in person yet. One big factor is whether the
drivers are insulated. 3 rail O gauge locomotives and rolling stock
are typically difficult to convert to 2 rail operation because the
outer rails are electrically common in 3 rail operation.

Does anyone know if the driver centers on the K-Line Big Boy are die
cast metal or injection molded plastic? If they are metal,
conversion would be a lot tougher because you would have to figure
out a way to isolate the axles and side rods to prevent a dead short
(if you wanted to re-use the O gauge driving wheels).
Group: S-Trains Message: 22453 From: Bill Lane Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Pennsy S Models Update
Hi All,

We have updated our website www.pennsysmodels.com for our S Scale X-29.
Please give it a look. There are some new detail photos on the pilot model
page. We realize that it has far too long to get this project to completion.
However, I can say with complete confidence that we are going to produce the
cars as I have envisioned, without compromise, and detail for detail. We
were not satisfied with our builder's ability to make castings. So, we have
been contracting with American brass master makers and casters at an EXTREME
added cost to compliment the awesome sheet metal skills of our builder.

We still have room for your order for any of the versions. Here is the PDF
file for the order form. http://www.pennsysmodels.com/X29%20Order%20Form.pdf
We are approximately 80% sold out at this point. Contact us at
info@... with any questions you have.

Dan and I would like to thank you for your patience, and wish you Happy
Holidays

Thank You,

Bill Lane
Dan Mastrobuono

Pennsy S Models
Group: S-Trains Message: 22454 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: American Flyer Uncouplers Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1683
There are at least three variations on the 52-62 knuckle coupler:
6A with hole, 6B with slot for retrofit to link, 6C no hole or slot

I only pay attention to this when restoring an otherwise near
perfect car with a damaged coupler. I have also noticed some
are more rounded while others seem to square off. (Obviously I
had a lot of time on my hands when I noticed this!) --- Nick

At 04:03 AM 12/21/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 15
> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 16:15:44 EST
> From: HOwingsiii@...
>Subject: Re: American Flyer Uncouplers
>
>Excluding prewar;
>1. Thin shank link coupler (no weight) - 1946
>2. Thick shank link coupler (no weight) - 1947, approx.
>3. Thick shank link w/brass weight - 1948, approx.
>4. Thick shank link w/black weight 1949-52, approx.
>5. Early knuckle coupler attached by a rivet - 1952, ( came on early
>production K325 and K335 sets, engines and cars.)
>6. Standard operating knuckle coupler 1952 - 62
>7. Non operating solid knuckle coupler (Used on some cheaper cars) 1958-59
>8. Pikemaster coupler - 1960-66
Group: S-Trains Message: 22455 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: AF Steam Loco Axles Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1683
I had the same problem except it was the gear slipping on the axle.
The only cure was to take one off another "junk" chassis. They are
interchangeable but I had to make a tool to center the gear. I own,
and recommend, the quartering tool from Tom Seccia at Tripple "S"
to get the wheels properly gauged and "quartered". (Tom Jarcho
has already mentioned quartering may actually be 88 degrees.)

On the topic of slipping rims, drilling and pegging with plastic rod
was mentioned. This was the technique Gilbert used but with
wood dowels. Look at some 1947 vintage engine wheels. This was
the in-the-field fix when the plastic shrunk. --- Nick

At 04:03 AM 12/21/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 08:40:11 -0600
> From: Mike Vana <amflyer@...>
>Subject: AF Steam Loco Axles
>
>I have a 332AC whose rear drivers slip on the axle,
>which, of course, is the one with the gear. So it
>sits still and won't move (like a smoke in the boiler
>version of a smoke in tender steamer in neutral).
>I imagine the splines on the axle and/or the drivers
>are worn smooth. Super glue didn't work. I have
>plenty of axles from previously junked steamers,
>especially Atlantics. My easiest source of an axle
>would be a set of drivers from an engine like a
>Franklin where the bottom of the frame unscrews and
>drivers come out together. Are all the geared axles
>on AF S gauge steam locos the same? I know that I've
>seen plastic and metal drivers on the same steam loco,
>so I would guess they are.
>
>Has anybody else had this problem? I've had loose
>wheels and loose tires before, but this is the first
>time I've seem a steam loco just quit moving like this!
>
>Mike Vana Omaha, NE.
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
Group: S-Trains Message: 22456 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: 6 Gilbert / AF Catalogs online now
Hello and thanks to everyone who has been trying out my AF Catalogs
online. I have added several more in the last day or so, so you may
wish to check them out.

Years: 1941, 1949, 1952, 1953, 1959, 1961 now online!

http://www.myflyertrains.org

Happy Holiday!

Chuck
Group: S-Trains Message: 22457 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: American Flyer Uncouplers Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1683
Yes Nick, you are right, did not think it was too important to mention
variation of the knuckle couplers. Have noticed in the past that someone had
done some repros, but these must have been done many years ago. I'm still
looking for some of those pinned on knuckle coupler cars from 52, i.e. 925,
931, Harwood


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22458 From: David Dewey Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Complete S layout on eBay
Hey all,
Anyone know who this is? I hope we're not loosing an S Gauger!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3100327817&category=480

S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22459 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: Complete S layout on eBay
**((Anyone know who this is? I hope we're not loosing an S Gauger!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3100327817&category=480
David D.))**

Geee....24"x12" ???? Sure looks bigger in the pics!!! :^)

I wish the room went along with the layout!! I need room!!

Rick.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22460 From: Kielek Family Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: AF steam loco information(21139 and 21105)
Hello from Calgary!!!

I am wondering how uncommon(valuable?)the 21105
Atlantic is with plastic driver centres and aluminum rims. I own one and it is just like the one shown in A.C Gilbert's
Heritage book p.26(Heimberger House publishing). Also, the 21139 Challenger, did it have a smoke stack with white painted interior and red plastic stack or unpainted(black) with metal (brass?) stack insert?
Thanx AL


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22461 From: Tom Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Fw: Q & A Feb 2003 Issue
Hi Guys,

I sent the following email to CTT. Lets see if we get an apology.

Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom
To: nbesougloff@...
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 3:06 PM
Subject: Q & A Feb 2003 Issue


Dear Editor:

Holy Expletive deleted!! You told the Lionel guy who purchased the American Flyer 16B transformer that it was not normal for 4 volts to be passing through the variable terminals when the transformer was "off". .

The 16B had a "dead man" control. You had to lift the handle completely to cycle the reverse units (Flyer guys never say "E-Unit"). If you simply turned the rheostat handle to "0 mph", there would still be 4 volts coming through the variable terminal compared to base (to use Flyer terminology again). Thus, you could stop a train at a station, and then start it again in the same direction without cycling through the reverse unit. This works fine with original Flyer, because the engine will not run at 4 volts, but the reverse unit will not cycle. With SHS or AM engines, however, while the reverse unit will not cycle, the newer can motors may still allow the engine to creep along.

When will you learn to talk to a "Flyer guy" before you answer a question about Flyer!!!!? If the Lionel guy doesn't want that 16B, have him send it to me.

Your credibility with Flyer operators is now at an all time low. We want an apology and a vow to sin no more.

Tom Gerbasi


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22462 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Q & A Feb 2003 Issue
Hear! hear! good for you. Thats why I dropped my sub. years ago. No one up
there knows anything about any Flyer and does not care to know.
H


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22463 From: William Lange Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Favorite D.I.Y. Tools and materials
Is this a great hobby or what?

I made my first post to the list a few weeks ago about 2 trains on 1
loop and I learned so much that I raided the project box and got a Sam
the Semaphore Man and two 696 trips to give a bit of basic block
control. The 696's stick and I have 697's waiting in the wings once
holiday preparations are done.

The trains looked so good, but I was ready for more and I remembered the
project box had a 312 SIT just dying to be resurrected. And with the
help of Tom Jarcho and some pictures from Keith, I tackled the next
project. A great experience, I made new friends and I learned 'brushes
go in series with the field.' I'll never need another wiring diagram
again! I even restored the smoke unit; de-gunked the wick and rewound
the element and got so much smoke that I thought the smoke alarm might
sound as I finished up at 2:30 am last night.

The new project looked great, I just needed some tubing because smoky
tenders look pretty funky. And I was going to title this post just
'Favorite D.I.Y. materials.'

After about 30 minutes of on and off running time there came the dreaded
'clunk.' The 312 SIT went out of quarter. So looks like I'll be pulling
some wheels and sampling the six ways to repair loose wheels that Tom
posted the other day. But I'm sure I'll wait until I get something good
to pull the wheels with.

So what I'm asking is: 1) What are your favorite tools for this and
other jobs, and are there any I can get in a local hardware/automotive
store?

2) What are your favorite DIY materials like
tubing for the smoke in tender, or some sort of rubber band for pullmore
wheels, etc. etc..

My apologies to Doug and the other vendors but my train passion is high
at the moment, but the pockets are getting empty!

Bill Lange



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22464 From: pushpinss Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: Favorite D.I.Y. Tools and materials
I'm sure someone on this list has found a way of cutting down a
garden hose into a smoke tube, or using your gandmothers old false
teeth as a wheel puller.

Anyone reading the posts on this list would no doubt assume there was
an embargo on. Sounds like South America in the 1940's. BMW's with
Chevy rear ends bouncing down the road.


--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, William Lange <blange3@c...> wrote:
> Is this a great hobby or what?
>
> I made my first post to the list a few weeks ago about 2 trains on 1
> loop and I learned so much that I raided the project box and got a
Sam
> the Semaphore Man and two 696 trips to give a bit of basic block
> control. The 696's stick and I have 697's waiting in the wings once
> holiday preparations are done.
>
> The trains looked so good, but I was ready for more and I
remembered the
> project box had a 312 SIT just dying to be resurrected. And with the
> help of Tom Jarcho and some pictures from Keith, I tackled the next
> project. A great experience, I made new friends and I
learned 'brushes
> go in series with the field.' I'll never need another wiring diagram
> again! I even restored the smoke unit; de-gunked the wick and
rewound
> the element and got so much smoke that I thought the smoke alarm
might
> sound as I finished up at 2:30 am last night.
>
> The new project looked great, I just needed some tubing because
smoky
> tenders look pretty funky. And I was going to title this post just
> 'Favorite D.I.Y. materials.'
>
> After about 30 minutes of on and off running time there came the
dreaded
> 'clunk.' The 312 SIT went out of quarter. So looks like I'll be
pulling
> some wheels and sampling the six ways to repair loose wheels that
Tom
> posted the other day. But I'm sure I'll wait until I get something
good
> to pull the wheels with.
>
> So what I'm asking is: 1) What are your favorite tools for this and
> other jobs, and are there any I can get in a local
hardware/automotive
> store?
>
> 2) What are your favorite DIY materials like
> tubing for the smoke in tender, or some sort of rubber band for
pullmore
> wheels, etc. etc..
>
> My apologies to Doug and the other vendors but my train passion is
high
> at the moment, but the pockets are getting empty!
>
> Bill Lange
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22465 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Q & A Feb 2003 Issue
I was wondering when someone was going to blow the whistle on CTT. It's a glaring error. Heads should roll.

Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com ; showcaseline@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 3:14 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Fw: Q & A Feb 2003 Issue


Hi Guys,

I sent the following email to CTT. Lets see if we get an apology.

Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom
To: nbesougloff@...
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 3:06 PM
Subject: Q & A Feb 2003 Issue


Dear Editor:

Holy Expletive deleted!! You told the Lionel guy who purchased the American Flyer 16B transformer that it was not normal for 4 volts to be passing through the variable terminals when the transformer was "off". .

The 16B had a "dead man" control. You had to lift the handle completely to cycle the reverse units (Flyer guys never say "E-Unit"). If you simply turned the rheostat handle to "0 mph", there would still be 4 volts coming through the variable terminal compared to base (to use Flyer terminology again). Thus, you could stop a train at a station, and then start it again in the same direction without cycling through the reverse unit. This works fine with original Flyer, because the engine will not run at 4 volts, but the reverse unit will not cycle. With SHS or AM engines, however, while the reverse unit will not cycle, the newer can motors may still allow the engine to creep along.

When will you learn to talk to a "Flyer guy" before you answer a question about Flyer!!!!? If the Lionel guy doesn't want that 16B, have him send it to me.

Your credibility with Flyer operators is now at an all time low. We want an apology and a vow to sin no more.

Tom Gerbasi


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22466 From: John G Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Electromagnetic Crane loads
I'm having the neighbor kids over in a couple days to see & operate
my Flyer layout & accessories.

The trianglar shaped window glazing points, that came with the 583
electromagnetic crane don't seem to be the best load. They tend to
stick to the magnet & are sharp to the touch.

Does anybody have any suggestions for other loads?



John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 22467 From: Roy Inman Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: CTT S layout
Just curious:
How many have put together an S tree skirt layout based on the one in CTT
last month?
I recall there was a group of caring and sharing youngsters who put one
together for a senior center (and bravo to them!! ;)
I have the pieces, but won't get it done this year.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22468 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Q & A Feb 2003 Issue
I was just about to send the same info. It shows they don't know AF.

jfred



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22469 From: Don Abrams Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: Loose driver wheel on axle
Mike,
Tom kindly included my fix for loose drivers. Just whack the hole with a
hammer while it's on the flat surface of the vise. It's been foolproof for
me in 25+ years of repairing AF trains. Just used it again last week on 2
repairs. I repair for 3 hobby shops.
Can't beat the price or the complexity level! I do use a small ball peen
hammer and just strike the front and back of the wheel center.
I requarter by eyeball. Remove all rods & linkage and have the chassis out
of the shell.
My 'press' is a 2" drill press vise. I them because the jaws ride on
outboard 'rails' to minimize wobble.
Once you have the wheel where you want it just squeeze the jaws slightly,
loosen the vise and turn the wheel & axle 90 degrees, then squeeze again.
Repeat this until the wheel is all the way on. It will be as straight and
true as a factory job.
Hope this helps,
Don
Group: S-Trains Message: 22470 From: Don Abrams Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: A matter of degree
>(and by the way, AF steam loco geared axles ARE interchangeable, and most
>Flyer drivers are quartered at 88 degrees, not 90 degrees.)
>Tom Jarcho

I've seen this posted before and always wondered what is the source of the
'88 degree' quartering spec?
By eyeballing driver replacement I've had no trouble in 25+ years of Flyer
repair. I always deal with a barebones chassis. When done quartering I
install the side rods and just push the chassis back and forth on a few feet
of straight track feeling for binds.
The front set of drivers has an elongated hole in the side rod and allows
quite a bit of play between the first and second set of drivers.
I could be wrong on this, but isn't the 88 degree quartering what was done
on actual steam engines to eliminate a 'dead spot' where (when at rest) the
loco couldn't go in either direction because there would be no mechanical
advantage available to the steam cylinder on either side???
Just wondering . . . .
Happy Holidays to all on S-Trains
Peace,
Don
Group: S-Trains Message: 22471 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: Electromagnetic Crane loads
Cut up pieces of Flyer rail are excellent. Also old tinplate wheels ala
Marx.

"John G " wrote:
>
> I'm having the neighbor kids over in a couple days to see & operate
> my Flyer layout & accessories.
>
> The trianglar shaped window glazing points, that came with the 583
> electromagnetic crane don't seem to be the best load. They tend to
> stick to the magnet & are sharp to the touch.
>
> Does anybody have any suggestions for other loads?
>
> John Gasal
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 22472 From: MARVD6848@aol.com Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: Favorite D.I.Y. Tools and materials
<PRE>if any one has any junk engines s gauge 1/64 scale that are dead or broke i
am looking for a project i had a start of one but it had a bad case of
deteriating crumbles the # of that engine is 572 it is a o gauge but it can
be convereted very easy if i had a s gauge body for it the wheel arangement
is a 4 8 4also need a tender to match help please thanks marv d
Group: S-Trains Message: 22473 From: David Dewey Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: Favorite D.I.Y. Tools and materials
William,
You have probably opened Pandora's box. Perhaps it is because of the
many years of few factory replacement parts for AF (not true now, but "back
when", like the "dark days of 1975" parts were at a bit of a premium), but
AF guys seem to be most ingenious at finding something else to do what we
need done! This is not always a good thing, either!! ;-)
My wheel puller is a very crude-looking apparatus, made back when I had a
car restoration shop and all its tools (this may soon happen again, we have
some hopes) and is wood and metal brazed, welded and bolted together. It
works too! What I like about my tool is that it pulls the wheels from the
center, not the rim, so the plastic insulator isn't strained (much).
As to your question on smoke tubing, here's my solution, although it may be
as esoteric as genuine ACG tubing! I use player piano tracker bar tubing,
very thin, and I suspect the same place ACG got theirs! Check in the phone
book for a piano tuner! The little bit you'll need is almost nothing,
compared to what a piano takes! It is also very flexible too, but be careful
routing it around the field coil, that it doesn't get smashed, so the smoke
doesn't come out!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22474 From: David Dewey Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Q & A Feb 2003 Issue
This from the mag that paid me (rather well too) for an AF article, and then
NEVER printed it! I think we should flood them with similar emails! Maybe
they'd realize we DO EXIST!
I gave up the mag years ago too.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22475 From: David Dewey Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: A matter of degree
Don,
The 88 degrees shows up somewhere in manufacturing specifications, I
forget where, maybe Tom J. knows--but! Existing ACG quartering fixtures
prove the 88 degree quartering. I, too, quarter by eyeball, so can't swear
to what degrees I've found factory quartering. One of the tricks to know
about ACG steamers, is the siderods DO have a front and back. The "bump" you
see behind the center hole is there to represent a pivot link on the
prototype (prototype axles are sprung, so the side rods have to have some
"give" in the horizontal plane). This "bump" goes to the rear, which puts
that elongated hole to the front--and you thought it was just wear in the
siderod! This trick was covered in one of my "Fixin' Flyer" columns in The
Dispatch (Blatant plug). ;-)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22476 From: David Dewey Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Re: AF steam loco information(21139 and 21105)
I believe that is a rather uncommon variation, as the aluminum rims were
pretty much reserved for the Hudson locos (and red-centered drivers for the
Frontiersman ones).
I think all the later locos had red plastic stacks, but the white paint was
sometimes not done, I have a 21085 without the paint. Probably a factory
boo-boo?
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22477 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: degree of quarter
I think the early locos like the SIT ones were quartered to 90 degrees.
When they changed over I do not know.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 22478 From: eineke2001 Date: 12/21/2002
Subject: Fwd: The Toy Train Barn's First Anniversary !
--- In AmericanFlyerTrains@yahoogroups.com, overworkedwsor@w... wrote:
Today December 15 marks the first anniversary of The Toy Train Barn in
Argyle WI.

Congratulations to the proud owners Buck & Jan Guthrie on a successful
and special year !

Also special thanks to all who donated their time, labor and materials
during the past year !

And also to all of you who came to visit during the past year !

The Toy Train Barn is currently all decked out in Christmas decorations
to celebrate the holidays. Some new projects which are currently under
way are the building of a large improved Standard gauge layout and once
again expanding the ever growing main feature American Flyer Layout. The
toy train layouts and displays have now taken over the entire first
floor of the former dairy barn ( which is now painted Milwaukee Road
orange ) which they call home. The Toy Train Barn features operating
layouts ranging from tiny Z scale to large metal antique standard gauge
trains. The largest layout of which is the American Flyer layout which
features numerous operating steam and diesel freight and passenger
trains, action scenes, trolley buses, a subway and much much more .....

Work through the winter will also continue on the 12" Grand Scale
equipment used by the outside railroad ...... the " Argyle Zephyr " and
the GCG Circus Train. The " Green County Gulch Railroad " began
operating this past Fall after over a year of extensive roadbed
construction, track laying, landscaping and the building of a large
wooden trestle. Additional trackage will be added to the GCG next Spring
when better weather allows for outside work to resume. Eventually the
Green County Gulch Railroad will cover the better part of some 18 acres.

The Toy Train Barn is open year round, Daily from 10 a.m. to 5 p.m.

2003 will be another exciting year full of changes for The Toy Train
Barn !
Come pay a visit !
http://www.whrc-wi.org/trainbarn


The Toy Train Barn
W9141 Hwy 81
Argyle, WI 53504 ( 608 ) 966 - 1464

Robert Eineke
GCG RR
--- End forwarded message ---
Group: S-Trains Message: 22479 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: K-LINE & S MODEL RAILROADING
Last weekend at the Fort Washington, PA
Greenberg Train Show the regional manager,
Al Passman introduced me to his son, Norm.
Norm works for K-Line and said they are
working on a full S set. They don't want to
come out with just an engine but a full set.
He was not sure what the first engine
would be. Norm is a S operator so he
has a vested interest in our scale. I saw
their Big Boy and their Allegheny, which
are much smaller than their standard "O"
steam engines. I did not check the wheels
but they would have to work out that detail.

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn

>Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 13:49:29 -0000
> From: "Walt Danylak <waltdanylak@...>" <waltdanylak@...>
>Subject: Re: K-Line 0 Guage 1/64 scale 4-8-8-4 Big Boy
>
>Rance and List Members,
>
>I sent an email to K-Line a few weeks ago regarding the Big Boy.
>Their reply was that they would forward the information to their R&D
>department. Since that time I've heard through the grapevine that K-
>Line will produce about 300 full S gauge versions of the Big Boy. I
>have no idea if this is true or not. If anyone on the list has more
>info, please share it with us.
>
>Walt Danylak
>Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 14:06:01 -0000
> From: "srgriggs <sgriggs@...>" <sgriggs@...>
>Subject: Re: K-Line 0 Guage 1/64 scale 4-8-8-4 Big Boy
>
>
>I haven't seen one in person yet. One big factor is whether the
>drivers are insulated. 3 rail O gauge locomotives and rolling stock
>are typically difficult to convert to 2 rail operation because the
>outer rails are electrically common in 3 rail operation.
>
>Does anyone know if the driver centers on the K-Line Big Boy are die
>cast metal or injection molded plastic? If they are metal,
>conversion would be a lot tougher because you would have to figure
>out a way to isolate the axles and side rods to prevent a dead short
>(if you wanted to re-use the O gauge driving wheels).
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22480 From: srgriggs Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: K-Line Big Boy Dimensions
I came across these posts on the O Gauge Railroading forum:

http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?
a=tpc&s=63160042&f=57660482&m=8676071251&r=9186013251#9186013251


http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?
a=tpc&s=63160042&f=57660482&m=9716079361&r=7246015561#7246015561


In both cases, take a look at the comments of a poster named klazys.
Looks like the Big Boy is 1/64 scale to me.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22482 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Q & A Feb 2003 Issue
I don't think there is a magic Silver Bullet to our problem with CTT. It must be a damn Circus Train in their editing rooms! This most recent case of Flyer bashing gives me the Royal Blues.

Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: David Dewey
To: kgerbasi@... ; S-Trains@yahoogroups.com ; showcaseline@yahoogroups.com ; HOwingsiii@...
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 11:46 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Fw: Q & A Feb 2003 Issue


This from the mag that paid me (rather well too) for an AF article, and then
NEVER printed it! I think we should flood them with similar emails! Maybe
they'd realize we DO EXIST!
I gave up the mag years ago too.
S'
David D.


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All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22483 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Houston A.F.?
I am headed to Houston this week and was wondering if there were any can't
miss train shops in the area where they might have some A.F. stuff? Any
suggestions would be appreciated.

Mike Leahy

P.S. Got 2 replies on my #350 Royal Blue with "The Royal Blue" written on
both the engine & tender! Does anyone in the group have one of these?
Mine is the cast hand rail (1950?) version. No idea what it is worth.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22484 From: pushpinss Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: Loose driver wheel on axle
Is that a 5lb. or a 10lb. hammer?


--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, Don Abrams <donabrams@c...> wrote:
> Mike,
> Tom kindly included my fix for loose drivers. Just whack the hole
with a
> hammer while it's on the flat surface of the vise. It's been
foolproof for
> me in 25+ years of repairing AF trains. Just used it again last
week on 2
> repairs. I repair for 3 hobby shops.
> Can't beat the price or the complexity level! I do use a small ball
peen
> hammer and just strike the front and back of the wheel center.
> I requarter by eyeball. Remove all rods & linkage and have the
chassis out
> of the shell.
> My 'press' is a 2" drill press vise. I them because the jaws ride on
> outboard 'rails' to minimize wobble.
> Once you have the wheel where you want it just squeeze the jaws
slightly,
> loosen the vise and turn the wheel & axle 90 degrees, then squeeze
again.
> Repeat this until the wheel is all the way on. It will be as
straight and
> true as a factory job.
> Hope this helps,
> Don
Group: S-Trains Message: 22485 From: pushpinss Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Q & A Feb 2003 Issue
You're too kind! CTT should drop the facade and rename the
magazine "LIONEL TOY TRAINS". What a disservice to the entire toy
train collecting and operating community.


--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Brown" <Timboy@a...> wrote:
> I don't think there is a magic Silver Bullet to our problem with
CTT. It must be a damn Circus Train in their editing rooms! This
most recent case of Flyer bashing gives me the Royal Blues.
>
> Tim Brown
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David Dewey
> To: kgerbasi@w... ; S-Trains@yahoogroups.com ;
showcaseline@yahoogroups.com ; HOwingsiii@a...
> Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 11:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Fw: Q & A Feb 2003 Issue
>
>
> This from the mag that paid me (rather well too) for an AF
article, and then
> NEVER printed it! I think we should flood them with similar
emails! Maybe
> they'd realize we DO EXIST!
> I gave up the mag years ago too.
> S'
> David D.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-
unsubscribe@Y...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22486 From: rkuepper Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: Electromagnetic Crane loads
Check out the magnetic crane pictures and descriptions on

http://www.trainweb.org/crocon/scraig.html

Verrrrry interesting!

Dick


----- Original Message -----
From: <NotColdEnough@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 7:11 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Electromagnetic Crane loads


> I'm having the neighbor kids over in a couple days to see & operate
> my Flyer layout & accessories.
>
> The trianglar shaped window glazing points, that came with the 583
> electromagnetic crane don't seem to be the best load. They tend to
> stick to the magnet & are sharp to the touch.
>
> Does anybody have any suggestions for other loads?
>
>
>
> John Gasal
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22487 From: tomsmitty2001 Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: matter of degrees
The full-scale steam locomotives do indeed have their drivers
quartered at 90 deg. With the existance of original ACG quartering
jigs at 88 deg., one can only wonder why they were done this way.
Having the crankpins at 90 ( on the 1:1 stuff ) does insure that
there will be no dead-spot, for as the axle rotates, the crankpins
are constantly receiving a varying amount of thrust from the
connecting rods. For example, imagine standing at the right side of a
locomotive and facing the drivers. Start with the crankpin on this
side at 12 o'clock. Now imagine you have x-ray vision and are still
standing on the right side, still facing the engine, the crankpin on
the left side would be at the 9 o'clock postion ( this is known
as "right-hand" quartering ). This means that the crankpin on the
right is now able to transmit the most torque to the axle, while the
one on the left, being in line with the axle, can transmit no torgue
whatsoever. So as the locomotive begins to move forward, the crankpin
on the right begins a circular decent and as it gets closer to the
plane of the axle is able to transmit less torque, but at the same
time the crankpin on the left is beginning a circular rise away from
the plane of the axles and as it approaches being directly over the
top of the axle is able to transmit more and more torque, thus taking
over for the crankpin on the right side.

This trading of delivering torque from side to side of a set of
drivers happens four times trough each revolution of the axle, and
because the pistons are double acting ~ that is, they receive steam
on their fronts and their backs as they cycle back and forth, there
are four power impulses to the axles each revolution, and as long as
the axles remain quartered and the events of the valves are in turn
properly timed to the axles, the engine can not get on dead-center.

The foregoing applies to almost all steam locomotives, some European
as well as a few domestic locomotives had three cylinders tied to the
main axle which meant their quartering was at 60 deg. Mallet
locomotives with four cylinders were actually two locomotives under
one boiler and thus the sequence described above still applies. Then
if you are talking about the Pennsy locomotives, their drivers were
quartered "left-hand", that is to say, when the crankpin on the right
was a 12 o'clock, the one on the left was at 3 o'clock ! Just had to
be different for some reason. Then there's Shays, Climaxes
and .........

The short of it is, unless the crankpins are at 90 deg., the
sequential, even, sharing of thrust from side to side cannot take
place smoothly and evenly. Even when they are at 90, sometimes the
weight distribution on the drivers is not enough compared to the
amount of thrust given to the crankpins, and along with insufficient
counter weighting, the engine will nose from side to side as it
powers it's way down the tracks.

Regard'S',

Smitty
Group: S-Trains Message: 22488 From: Don Abrams Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Electromagnetic Crane loads
I've got an original batch of these. They seem to be the punch outs from
making erector girders.
Don

>The triangular shaped window glazing points, that came with the 583
>electromagnetic crane don't seem to be the best load. They tend to
>stick to the magnet & are sharp to the touch.

John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 22489 From: Don Abrams Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: A matter of degree
Dave,
Oh yeah -- I knew about the front/rear hole difference in the side rods.
I wonder why the necessity of an elongated hole at the lead axle's driver?
The Lionels I have don't do this, even those with worm drive to the rear
axle that rely on the side rods to power the other wheels.
Hmmmmmmm? Something else to ponder.
Take care,
Don



-----Original Message-----
From: David Dewey [mailto:djdewey@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 12:01 AM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com; Don Abrams
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] A matter of degree


Don,
The 88 degrees shows up somewhere in manufacturing specifications, I
forget where, maybe Tom J. knows--but! Existing ACG quartering fixtures
prove the 88 degree quartering. I, too, quarter by eyeball, so can't swear
to what degrees I've found factory quartering. One of the tricks to know
about ACG steamers, is the siderods DO have a front and back. The "bump" you
see behind the center hole is there to represent a pivot link on the
prototype (prototype axles are sprung, so the side rods have to have some
"give" in the horizontal plane). This "bump" goes to the rear, which puts
that elongated hole to the front--and you thought it was just wear in the
siderod! This trick was covered in one of my "Fixin' Flyer" columns in The
Dispatch (Blatant plug). ;-)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22490 From: Don Abrams Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: K-LINE & S MODEL RAILROADING
Oh my! An s gauge Allegheny? Not a scale brass one for about $2K?
I'm getting excited!
I've been looking at the one in Henry Ford's Greenfield Village Museum since
I was a kid.
Never could afford the 'O' scale or highrail ones.
'S' and under a grand I can probably do.
Don


Last weekend at the Fort Washington, PA
Greenberg Train Show the regional manager,
Al Passman introduced me to his son, Norm.
Norm works for K-Line and said they are
working on a full S set. They don't want to
come out with just an engine but a full set.
He was not sure what the first engine
would be. Norm is a S operator so he
has a vested interest in our scale. I saw
their Big Boy and their Allegheny, which
are much smaller than their standard "O"
steam engines. I did not check the wheels
but they would have to work out that detail.

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn
Group: S-Trains Message: 22491 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1685
A.F. couplers:

Don't forget about the early laminated knuckle coupler.

Jerry 77-11644

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22492 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1683
Wheel quartering:
In an early service publication I had read that Early Flyer locomotives
were quartered at 90 degrees. Later flyer locomotives were quartered at
( 88 degrees ? ) I had read it to be 87Degrees. The reasoning behind
it, real steam driven engines are quartered at 90 degrees for equal
timing around the driving wheel. toy trains driven by an electric motor
push the valve gear and has a tendency to balk or lock up at 90 degrees.

Jerry 77-11644

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22493 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: matter of degrees
I liked the part about me having "X-ray vision"!

Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: tomsmitty2001 <strider1102@...>
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 1:31 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] matter of degrees


The full-scale steam locomotives do indeed have their drivers
quartered at 90 deg. With the existance of original ACG quartering
jigs at 88 deg., one can only wonder why they were done this way.
Having the crankpins at 90 ( on the 1:1 stuff ) does insure that
there will be no dead-spot, for as the axle rotates, the crankpins
are constantly receiving a varying amount of thrust from the
connecting rods. For example, imagine standing at the right side of a
locomotive and facing the drivers. Start with the crankpin on this
side at 12 o'clock. Now imagine you have x-ray vision and are still
standing on the right side, still facing the engine, the crankpin on
the left side would be at the 9 o'clock postion ( this is known
as "right-hand" quartering ). This means that the crankpin on the
right is now able to transmit the most torque to the axle, while the
one on the left, being in line with the axle, can transmit no torgue
whatsoever. So as the locomotive begins to move forward, the crankpin
on the right begins a circular decent and as it gets closer to the
plane of the axle is able to transmit less torque, but at the same
time the crankpin on the left is beginning a circular rise away from
the plane of the axles and as it approaches being directly over the
top of the axle is able to transmit more and more torque, thus taking
over for the crankpin on the right side.

This trading of delivering torque from side to side of a set of
drivers happens four times trough each revolution of the axle, and
because the pistons are double acting ~ that is, they receive steam
on their fronts and their backs as they cycle back and forth, there
are four power impulses to the axles each revolution, and as long as
the axles remain quartered and the events of the valves are in turn
properly timed to the axles, the engine can not get on dead-center.

The foregoing applies to almost all steam locomotives, some European
as well as a few domestic locomotives had three cylinders tied to the
main axle which meant their quartering was at 60 deg. Mallet
locomotives with four cylinders were actually two locomotives under
one boiler and thus the sequence described above still applies. Then
if you are talking about the Pennsy locomotives, their drivers were
quartered "left-hand", that is to say, when the crankpin on the right
was a 12 o'clock, the one on the left was at 3 o'clock ! Just had to
be different for some reason. Then there's Shays, Climaxes
and .........

The short of it is, unless the crankpins are at 90 deg., the
sequential, even, sharing of thrust from side to side cannot take
place smoothly and evenly. Even when they are at 90, sometimes the
weight distribution on the drivers is not enough compared to the
amount of thrust given to the crankpins, and along with insufficient
counter weighting, the engine will nose from side to side as it
powers it's way down the tracks.

Regard'S',

Smitty


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22494 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: 289 loco
Today I saw a plastic Pacific numbered 289 at a train show. What is that ,
and from when????

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 22495 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: 289 loco
it was around 1956...uncommon....bob
----- Original Message -----
From: <jarcho@...>
To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 4:23 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] 289 loco


> Today I saw a plastic Pacific numbered 289 at a train show. What is that
,
> and from when????
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22496 From: Kielek Family Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: 5 digit steamer info
Just want to say a big thank to Dave and David for the info. You have helped immensely by sharing some of the history of these trains. Al


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22497 From: nyc17819@aol.com Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: D.I.Y. tools
Pulling Drivers

For pulling drivers, I often use a faucet handle puller, available from good
hardware stores. This has a screw with a small diameter stem that is smaller
than an AF axle and will therefore fit into the driver hole when pushing the
axle out.

Although the arms of the puller can pull directly on the driver rim, they can
also be modified to pull on the loco frame so the frame pushes on the center
of the wheel.

I've used it on Wide Gauge, O Gauge, and S without problems.

Chris Harding
Group: S-Trains Message: 22498 From: nyc17819@aol.com Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: K-Line 3/16" 0 gauge
Lest we forget, many of the AF S gauge engines and cars started out before
W.W.II as 3/16" 0 gauge, made by A. C. Gilbert. So there is a
well-established precedent for converting 0 gauge to S gauge.

Some of the advertising for 3/16" 0 gauge touted the fact that 3/16" did not
need 72" diameter curves and that more layout could be built in a given space
using 3/16" scale rather than 1/4" scale 0 gauge. Let's hope the new train
doesn't require large radius curves for S gauge.

Chris Harding
Group: S-Trains Message: 22499 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: looking for GPs for kitbashing
Greetings,

Anyone out there is S-gauge land have any flyer/AM Geeps in their parts
bins. Since it is colder out I thought I would try building an S gauge UP
Centennial diesel over the winter.

It would be a lot easier if AM sold undecorated shells then I could use a
GP-35 nose and other body parts. I can always build a metal frame out of
this or that.

Jeff Tangeman

ps. I finally saw the K-Line Big boy at a local retailer. If and when it
come with S trucks, I'll have to decide between that and a new oak floor
for my kitchen:)
Group: S-Trains Message: 22500 From: Kielek Family Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: 5 digit steamer info
David(Dave0616@com...)

I was wondering if you could call me
at (403)281-4445. More in depth AF questions
Thanx Al


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22501 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: Quartering
>This trading of delivering torque from side to side of a set of
drivers happens four times trough each revolution of the axle, and
because the pistons are double acting ~ that is, they receive steam
on their fronts and their backs as they cycle back and forth, there
are four power impulses to the axles each revolution, and as long as
the axles remain quartered and the events of the valves are in turn
properly timed to the axles, the engine can not get on dead-center. <

This is also why a steam loco pounds the rail head. It's much harder on the rails than the same amount of electeic traction power (diesel or line power).

jfred





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22502 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: 289
Tom,

My Greenberg's shows : 289 CNW 4-6-2 Pacific, 56 u



jfred



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22503 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: K-Line Big Boy Dimensions
Just a thought: I do hope that if K-Line is thinking about producing
the big boy in S gauge, they put in the right valve gear, rods, etc.
Rance Velapoldi

srgriggs wrote:

>I came across these posts on the O Gauge Railroading forum:
>
>http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?
>a=tpc&s=63160042&f=57660482&m=8676071251&r=9186013251#9186013251
>
>
>http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?
>a=tpc&s=63160042&f=57660482&m=9716079361&r=7246015561#7246015561
>
>
>In both cases, take a look at the comments of a poster named klazys.
>Looks like the Big Boy is 1/64 scale to me.
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22504 From: Chris Foden Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Interested in contacting 'S' gauge modelers in Ontario, Canada...
Season's Greetings to All,

I'm in Ontario, Canada, and interested in learning more about 'S' Gaugers in
the province. I live just west of Toronto. There is very little
information on clubs/groups in Southwestern Ontario and I'm new to this chat
service, as well as, the gauge.

If you are interested in sharing you insight with a newbie. I'd appreciate
your time and understanding.

Thanks,

Chris
Group: S-Trains Message: 22505 From: William Lange Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Favorite D.I.Y. Tools and materials
Thanks to all for their suggestions!

My 312 problem has been resolved, an eccentric crank slipped out of
position and locked-up. I can take my time shopping for a gear puller
now. I do have a 300 that needs quartering, but that will be a future
project. So many choices in the project box, 355, 301's 2's 7's, a 308,
and another 312. To bad I have to work for a living.

I'm learning quite a bit from this list Thanks to all who take so much
time explaining this great hobby!

Bill Lange



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22506 From: bilfrazier@aol.com Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: Couplers
In a message dated 12/22/02 8:16:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:

>
> Message: 12
> Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 12:55:22 -0700
> From: Gerald R Dobbs <grdobbs@...>
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 1685
>
>
> A.F. couplers:
>
> Don't forget about the early laminated knuckle coupler.
>
> Jerry 77-11644
>
>
Jerry:

If you are talking about the laminated coupler mentioned on page 204 of
Greenberg's Vol 1, fourth edition, these were actually made by Perma-Bilt for
use with their kits, and not by Gilbert. I came across a pair wth the
original instruction sheet and supplied the info to Greenberg for the
correction on page 229 in the fifth edition. As far as I know, Gilbert never
had a laminated coupler.

As the S Gauge Herald used to say: "Knowledge Is Valueless Until Shared"

Bill Frazier


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22507 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: DIY TOOLS
Hi Guys,
The best "Gearpuller" I have found is a Handle puller from
the plumbing supply or hardware store. I has a very thin rod that goes in the
screw hole on a faucet & had the legs? or parts that go under the handle that
will go under the wheel easily. The rod goes on the axle & is the exact size
to pull the wheel. You might need to adjust the bent part that fits under the
wheel but is easy to do. I hope this is not to confusing. Next time you are
at a hardware store look at one, you will see what I can't describe. The run
about 12-14 bucks, Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22508 From: WJJIM@aol.com Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: Favorite D.I.Y. Tools and materials
Everyone,
I have used, for several yrs, a specially made "wheel puller" from
www.ehobbytools.com. Or call Marv Laster @ 1-888-469-0404. Works like a
charm and I am not affiliated in any way. AND Northwest Shortline (NSL)
makes a great little HO puller that does truck wheels nicely. Marv probably
has that also.
Jim Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22509 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: Couplers
A.F. couplers:


How about the bar on the front of the 342? Or the same bar on both ends of a 370? The 370 was the only link diesel to couple on both ends. So far as I can tell it was not till the KC's came out that there were any A-A Alco sets.

jfred



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22510 From: Marty Lindower Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Milk car repair (newbie!)
Hi all-

First, let me say hi - I'm new to this list, and new/old to s-trains. At
the insistence of my 10 year old daughter, I finally dragged my Flyer
vintage 1960 set that my dad bought me as a kid, up from the basement. It
hadn't seen daylight in 30 or so years, but actually ran the first time I
twisted the dial - even with smoke! So now, I'm hooked again like I was when
I was 10. We're getting more track, a new transformer, etc.

Here's my question: I have a white automatic milk car #25019, that's
barely able to open the door and eject a milk can. I oiled whatever I could
reach with a pinpoint oiler; it's better but it's still very sluggish. Part
of it seems to be the door itself sticking; if I disengage the actuator from
the hole in the door, it sticks, but quite a bit less. I'd like to do
something to make it work, but how on earth do I take it apart? There are 2
screws on the bottom, but I'm pretty sure they just anchor the innards to
the bottom. (pardon my lame description - I'm sure there's an "official"
name for these parts ;-) Any other suggestions would be very welcome!

Thanks in advance,

Marty Lindower
martyl@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 22511 From: MARVD6848@aol.com Date: 12/22/2002
Subject: Re: Houston A.F.?
In a message dated 12/22/2002 9:46:00 AM Mountain Standard Time,
ruth.leahy@... writes: as always the first 3 conditions of all
models as to value is condition condition condition so if it is a
runner or is it a mint or is it a basket the value is in the eye of the
buyer and that is for the seller to be able to know a rule of thumb is $ 36
IS A START THE OTHER END IS AT A$ 75+ BUT I STILL HAVENT TOLD YOU ANY THING
but maybe the least it may be valued atis in the numbers if it has good paint
if the motor is sound if the wheels track ok wellit can go on&on
--------------- never ben to houston looking for trains but i would look up
g.a,t.t.s.to see whats going on at shows then locate all the shops that you
can hit and ask good luck the quest is the best part of trains marvd
Group: S-Trains Message: 22512 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: Re: Milk car repair (newbie!)
Hi,

Sight unseen, it's difficult to diagnose. The shell of the car comes off by removing four knurled pressure pins, one at each corner. They are carefully extracted with a good pair of needle nose pliers. If you disassemble the car, I suggest you do it over a white sheet, so you can easily spot a tiny part if it slips from the pliers and goes shooting off to Mexico. Sometimes stubborn pressure pins can be loosened with the brief and careful touch of the tip of a soldering iron to soften the surrounding plastic. Loose pressure pins can be "tightened" with a little dab of superglue. After the shell is off, you can see what is sticking more clearly. Sometimes the actuator is just a little bent or there is some corrosion you couldn't see with the shell on. The door should slide freely. The metal tracks may be a bit corroded or dirty. I often times get an action piece to operate better by hooking it up to a transformer that delivers more voltage to the piece. In any case, make sure the track trip is connected to the fixed post, not the variable post. I suggest before you try to take the car apart, wait a couple days to see if someone else on the list can be of further help. Meanwhile, you could try cleaning and lubricating all moving parts within your reach with a little rubbing alcohol and light oil, being careful not to get any on the coil.

Happy Holidays,
Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: Marty Lindower
To: S-trains
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 11:07 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Milk car repair (newbie!)


Hi all-

First, let me say hi - I'm new to this list, and new/old to s-trains. At
the insistence of my 10 year old daughter, I finally dragged my Flyer
vintage 1960 set that my dad bought me as a kid, up from the basement. It
hadn't seen daylight in 30 or so years, but actually ran the first time I
twisted the dial - even with smoke! So now, I'm hooked again like I was when
I was 10. We're getting more track, a new transformer, etc.

Here's my question: I have a white automatic milk car #25019, that's
barely able to open the door and eject a milk can. I oiled whatever I could
reach with a pinpoint oiler; it's better but it's still very sluggish. Part
of it seems to be the door itself sticking; if I disengage the actuator from
the hole in the door, it sticks, but quite a bit less. I'd like to do
something to make it work, but how on earth do I take it apart? There are 2
screws on the bottom, but I'm pretty sure they just anchor the innards to
the bottom. (pardon my lame description - I'm sure there's an "official"
name for these parts ;-) Any other suggestions would be very welcome!

Thanks in advance,

Marty Lindower
martyl@...


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22513 From: david.avedesian@limbachinc.com Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: K-Line Big Boy
Mel Nielsen of Ballston Locomotive Works, 508 584 1090 w, is currently
converting an O-Ga big boy to S-Ga. He is going through the process for a
client. He is working through the issues and believes that the conversion
is possible.

David



************************************************************************
This e-mail is the property of the Limbach Inc. and/or its relevant affiliate and may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient (s). Any review, use, distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender and delete all copies of the message. This e-mail (and any attachments hereto) are not intended to be an offer (or an acceptance) and do not create or evidence a binding and enforceable contract betweenLimbach Inc. (or any of its affiliates) and the intended recipient or any other party, and may not be relied on by anyone as the basis of a contract by estoppel or otherwise. Thank you.
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22514 From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: contacting 'S' modelers in Canada...
To Chris Foden and any others interested in making S contacts in
Canada, if you e-mail me I will send you some names and addesses.
Joe Pereira


email: sigma@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 22515 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: Re: Milk car repair (newbie!)
Another important consideration is to not over oil. Many action cars
work better when not gunked up with oil, especially where one part
slides over another. You have to experiment to see whether wiping off
excess oil helps or hurts the particular car you're working on.

Tim Brown wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Sight unseen, it's difficult to diagnose. The shell of the car comes off by removing four knurled pressure pins, one at each corner. They are carefully extracted with a good pair of needle nose pliers. If you disassemble the car, I suggest you do it over a white sheet, so you can easily spot a tiny part if it slips from the pliers and goes shooting off to Mexico. Sometimes stubborn pressure pins can be loosened with the brief and careful touch of the tip of a soldering iron to soften the surrounding plastic. Loose pressure pins can be "tightened" with a little dab of superglue. After the shell is off, you can see what is sticking more clearly. Sometimes the actuator is just a little bent or there is some corrosion you couldn't see with the shell on. The door should slide freely. The metal tracks may be a bit corroded or dirty. I often times get an action piece to operate better by hooking it up to a transformer that delivers more voltage to the piece. In any case, make
> sure the track trip is connected to the fixed post, not the variable post. I suggest before you try to take the car apart, wait a couple days to see if someone else on the list can be of further help. Meanwhile, you could try cleaning and lubricating all moving parts within your reach with a little rubbing alcohol and light oil, being careful not to get any on the coil.
>
> Happy Holidays,
> Tim Brown
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marty Lindower
> To: S-trains
> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 11:07 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] Milk car repair (newbie!)
>
> Hi all-
>
> First, let me say hi - I'm new to this list, and new/old to s-trains. At
> the insistence of my 10 year old daughter, I finally dragged my Flyer
> vintage 1960 set that my dad bought me as a kid, up from the basement. It
> hadn't seen daylight in 30 or so years, but actually ran the first time I
> twisted the dial - even with smoke! So now, I'm hooked again like I was when
> I was 10. We're getting more track, a new transformer, etc.
>
> Here's my question: I have a white automatic milk car #25019, that's
> barely able to open the door and eject a milk can. I oiled whatever I could
> reach with a pinpoint oiler; it's better but it's still very sluggish. Part
> of it seems to be the door itself sticking; if I disengage the actuator from
> the hole in the door, it sticks, but quite a bit less. I'd like to do
> something to make it work, but how on earth do I take it apart? There are 2
> screws on the bottom, but I'm pretty sure they just anchor the innards to
> the bottom. (pardon my lame description - I'm sure there's an "official"
> name for these parts ;-) Any other suggestions would be very welcome!
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Marty Lindower
> martyl@...
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG)
and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains Message: 22516 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: Re: MTH Checkerboard Tower
Thank you Dan I had no idea anyone else was making the Tower. I would
bet there are probably no "surprises" like the big fat yellow tube on
the Lionel version.

Wayne

Dan Brindell wrote:
>
> Just in case you haven't seen it already: you should also check out the
> Water Tower by Gilbert Reproductions at:
> http://www.ssstrains.com/GilbertReproductions1.htm
>
> Dan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wayne Broadhead" <afvair@...>
> To: "S Trains" <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 9:48 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] MTH Checkerboard Tower
>
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I have been off the list since April...but now am back in the "train
> > mood" full speed ahead. I have a question for you all. I went to the
> > hobby store last week and got the lastest MTH catalog, the 2003 version.
> >
> >
> > In the Accessory section it shows the "Checkerboard Water Tower" of
> > American Flyer fame....with a plastic shack! Are they really making
> > this now??
> >
> > I know they made the one with the metal shack last year to compete with
> > Lionels version. But I knew nothing about the "plastic shack" version.
> >
> > OR did they just use the wrong picture in the catalog?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Wayne
> > Golden Spike American Flyer Club
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
Group: S-Trains Message: 22517 From: Steve Blancard Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: "burnt wood" scent smoke fluid
Have any of you tried the new "burnt wood" scent smoke fluid from
MEGA-STEAM? It sounds perfect for a Franklin. They also have a
variety of interesting other scents. The say they are working
on "coal" and "diesel" scents too.

Their web site is WWW.JTTRAINS.NET

Steve Blancard
Crustyfour
Group: S-Trains Message: 22518 From: elinashusband Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: Compiled Transformer Suggestions
Better late then never I suppose, but I finally got around to
compiling those suggestions for powering vintage Flyer Locomotives.
As for my situation, I'm currently runing on a borrowed 4b, and plan
to either get my 12b repaired, and/or get another vintage Gilbert
Transformer sometime in early '03.

Transformer Suggestions for American Flyer Trains

The following information has been pieced together based on
information provided by the following people.

Steve Blancard, Dan B., Tom Jarcho, Don T, RB, Tommy, Robert E, Carl


First some background power information: It was suggested that

"I did some research on this awhile ago and concluded that:
1. Running an S-scale locomotive with a modern DC can motor requires
about 1 amp or 15 watts, and
2. Running a Flyer locomotive with an AC motor requires about 3 amps
or 45 watts." - Dan B

This was for motor power only.

"In my experience, most Flyer trains from the three digit period
need at least 75 watts to perform well. You need to consider the
motor, lights, smoke unit, reverse unit, all draw power and are not
new. Plus there is some power loss through the track, unless you want
to attach eight million feeder wires to same. Double motor diesels
and larger metal steam locos require more. Gilbert recommended a
minimum of a 100 watt transformer for these, and that has proved to
be a correct extimate in my view. A 100 watt transformer is the
minimum I would consider for Gilbert Flyer, unless I were running a
small plastic loco around a small loop. For double motor diesels and
large steamers, I would recommend a 175 watt transformer or more.

The Baldwin, handcar, docksider, Casey Jones, and other 5 digit items,
including the large steamers, use less power and in fact can be
damaged by the largest Flyer transformers. If you just give them the
power they need to run, and service them when they get sluggish
instead of applying more juice, they should be all right." - Tom
Jarcho

1) The most popular suggestion was to use vintage AC Gilbert AF
transformers, but only after checking it for safety (or better yet
having it checked out by someone who knows how) Information on
checking transformers can be found on Paul Yorke's site
(http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/) {My brain is fried and I
can't
seem to find the link} or at Port Lines Hobby Supplies' web site
(http://www.portlines.com/portlinesclinic6.htm)
2) The second most popular suggestion (but also the most
expensive) was to take the plunge and go with TMCC. Information on
TMCC can be found at
http://www.tuveson.com/TMCC/s_gauge_and_tmcc.htm.
3) Several folks suggested that the MTH Z-4000 worked pretty
well.
4) "An alternative to consider,
if one wants a new power source and has the money to spend, is the
new Lionel
ZW, which runs Flyer well and runs Flyonel better than the vintage
Gilbert
supplies." – RB
5) Finally several suggested that the MRC Throttle Pack O27 and
Pure Power AC (http://www.modelrectifier.com/catalog/item39.html)
Packed enough juice for many vintage flyers, however everyone who
suggested either of these was to go with a vintage Gilbert
transformer instead.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22519 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1688
Bill Fraxier
"Knowledge is valueless until shared"
I agree with that, I have acquired many a tip and a lot of excellent
information from this group. Now back to the laminated coupler, It
looks similar to the photo, It has a #5 cast on the top of the shank, it
is all plastic except for the rivet, weight and lift lock, also it seams
to have some type of a metal reinforcement in the shank at the hole for
the split river. From the picture at the bottom of the same page, the
truck on the right looks like the same coupler.

Thanks for the information.

Jerry 77-11644

________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22520 From: Mark Preman Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: Great American Train Show - This Weekend - Tampa
Tampa Fairgrounds...11am to 5pm Saturday and Sunday!

=====
Mark B. Preman
AmericanFlyerTrains.com

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22521 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: Re: my (3) pre-1953 AF sets(w/link couplers)
Hi,

1). IMHO, it makes you all three!

2). Which track you use is a big decision. There are lots of pros and cons for whatever you wish to use. There may be one commonality, tho'. If you are going to run some vintage Flyer, then you will need to stay with the hi-rail track and not the scale track. I personally stuck with Flyer track - buying cheap, dirty track and cleaning it up. It's more difficult (not impossible) to have a smooth running layout this way - but I viewed it as a challenge to stay totally Flyer. Flexible track, however, allows you to make wider radius curves and longer runs between rail connections. Some people say it looks more realistic, but I say Flyer track can be made to look realistic enuf with roadbed or wooden ties used as fillers. Flyer switches can be a problem to maintain and operate and the curved part is a little sharp - so switch placement on the layout is critical to smooth running trains. Try to avoid "S" curves, especially with the bigger locos. Maybe you could go to a couple shows where there are operating layouts and examine the different ways guys run their trains. Or, try to find an S-gauge club in your area. I encourage you to attend the NASG summer convention in Wisconsin this year. The layout tours of home layouts can be very inspiring and informative. You already made a great decision by joining an online list. Here is a link to the S-gauge list, where there are over 600 members:
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

3) Not sure how to answer this one. I doubt you will be taking your layout with you to club meetings, so any module you build can be to the standard, but your home layout can be to whatever standard you set, I think.

If you wish, you can visit my website, for further insights into the way I chose to set up my layout:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html

I'd like to read other opinions from other guys on the list.

Happy holidays!
Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: X3C12
To: rfgamericanflyer@...
Cc: X3C12
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 3:27 PM
Subject: my (3) pre-1953 AF sets(w/link couplers)


I'm just getting started again after fifty years and have a few questions. My intent is to use all original equipment for my lay-out. (#1 Does that make me a "tin-plater", a "Hi-Railer", a "collector" or an "operator"?) #2 In lieu of chasing down more original track and switches, should I break down and start using the new Universal Track System (or equal)parts 'n pieces? It doesn't appear they look the same! I only have 20 straight, 42 curved and 2 switches of original Code 220. In surfing the net and looking at "compatible" tracks & accessories, I'm getting confused with flexible track, other than the standard 10" long straight pieces and the multitude of different radiused curved sections!
#3 If a stay "original", is it advisable to build my layout to the S-Mod specifications in case I decided to really "get involved"?

Thanks for any help.

Bill in Rochester.

PS Watch for cattle, keep your tracks dry 'n clean and go slow on the curves...........

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22522 From: trainman634 Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: Rating A.F. 722 Manual Switches
I am thinking of using #722 Manual Switches for a small layout. How
would you rate these switches? How well do they hold up? Can they be
repaired? What are the problems with them? Thanks everyone for your
help.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22523 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: Re: Rating A.F. 722 Manual Switches
Hi,

If they are the ones I think they are (the older switches with the separation between the end of the curve section and the straight section), I don't like them, personally. I prefer the newer 722A manual switches (solid platform). The reason I don't like the old 722 is that they often lose electrical continuity on the broken rail when the frog is moved one way or the other due to wear and tear on the little electrical contacts underneath over the years. That can be fixed, but it's not pretty. Test your rails with a continuity tester when the frog is throw either way. If everything is okay, then fine. I believe the newer 722A switches were improved electrically and are much more dependable over the long haul. Anyone else agree/disagree?

Happy holidays,
Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: trainman634 <carl4260@...>
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 6:55 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Rating A.F. 722 Manual Switches


I am thinking of using #722 Manual Switches for a small layout. How
would you rate these switches? How well do they hold up? Can they be
repaired? What are the problems with them? Thanks everyone for your
help.


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22524 From: Kielek Family Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: AF 2 step reverse units
Hello everyone..
Just curious if anybody might have a couple of tips on servicing these 2 step reverse units(5digit engines)
Thanx Al


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22525 From: JRKRrdd@aol.com Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: Tools & Methods
Just made a casting for repairing one of my AF engines (a skirt ) and was
pleased with the outcome.
Thanks to a comment or 2 that I have seen ----the method was:
I used "Mortite" a grayish somewhat sticky like caulking substance much like
glazing compound (hardware store item) to create a mold (by impression).
Then using that mold, I mixed a batch of JB Weld and "poured" a cast.
I have a few lead AF figurines made of lead --one had no base. Same
procedure ---use a good one to create a base mold for the bad one. I'm sure
it will work--or so I hope as this repair involves dissimilar metals as well.
JB Weld has been a good experience for me.

John R


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22526 From: William Lange Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] DIY TOOLS
A winner!

Went to Home Depot today and saw one for $8.99. Made by BrassCraft,
#T168. Works perfect on flnged wheels. I had to resist pulling
everything apart in the project box! Not quite perfect for the
flangeless drive wheels though. The legs are too thick to get between
the frame and the wheel, need to get some wiggle room with a wedge
first. I'll play around with it and see if I discover any tricks.

Bill Lange


-----Original Message-----
From: anormal1@... [mailto:anormal1@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 9:07 PM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] DIY TOOLS


Hi Guys,
The best "Gearpuller" I have found is a Handle puller
from
the plumbing supply or hardware store. I has a very thin rod that goes
in the
screw hole on a faucet & had the legs? or parts that go under the handle
that
will go under the wheel easily. The rod goes on the axle & is the exact
size
to pull the wheel. You might need to adjust the bent part that fits
under the
wheel but is easy to do. I hope this is not to confusing. Next time you
are
at a hardware store look at one, you will see what I can't describe. The
run
about 12-14 bucks, Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 22527 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: Re: DIY TOOLS
What we used to use was A Battery Puller....You had to grind the legs thin
to slip under the wheel....Then you removed the cup from the screw...drilled
A hole in the end for A short piece of nail....Bingo...works every time...I
think the drawings came from the old Barker Book...BTW...Mine is still
working since 1982...Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Lange" <blange3@...>
To: "S-Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 8:22 PM
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] DIY TOOLS


> A winner!
>
> Went to Home Depot today and saw one for $8.99. Made by BrassCraft,
> #T168. Works perfect on flnged wheels. I had to resist pulling
> everything apart in the project box! Not quite perfect for the
> flangeless drive wheels though. The legs are too thick to get between
> the frame and the wheel, need to get some wiggle room with a wedge
> first. I'll play around with it and see if I discover any tricks.
>
> Bill Lange
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: anormal1@... [mailto:anormal1@...]
> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 9:07 PM
> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [S-Trains] DIY TOOLS
>
>
> Hi Guys,
> The best "Gearpuller" I have found is a Handle puller
> from
> the plumbing supply or hardware store. I has a very thin rod that goes
> in the
> screw hole on a faucet & had the legs? or parts that go under the handle
> that
> will go under the wheel easily. The rod goes on the axle & is the exact
> size
> to pull the wheel. You might need to adjust the bent part that fits
> under the
> wheel but is easy to do. I hope this is not to confusing. Next time you
> are
> at a hardware store look at one, you will see what I can't describe. The
> run
> about 12-14 bucks, Mike
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22528 From: John G Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: electromagnetic crane loads - summary of responses
Here is a compilation of the various responses I got to my question
regarding what to use for a load for the magnetic crane. Thanks to
all of you that replied!

John Gasal



Cut up pieces of Flyer rail are excellent. Also old tinplate wheels
ala Marx.

I use Erector set wheels and gears for my crane to load. They come in
interesting shapes and are large enough to be dramatic. Plus they're
Gilbert-made : )

try flat washers and lock washers and some squared pieces of a metal
from a coffee can will work (file the edges).

How about BB's??

Go to your friendly neighborhood Machine shop and see what scrap
pieces they will let you have. Lots of small shapes that will work
fine. You may have to clean the Oil off of them though

Check out the magnetic crane pictures and descriptions on
http://www.trainweb.org/crocon/scraig.html Verrrrry interesting!

How about little steel nuts and bolts, about the size found in an
Erector Set.

I've got an original batch of these. They seem to be the punch outs
from making erector girders.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22529 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: CRANE LOADS
Hi Guys,
I don't know if the gears from an erector set are brass or
not. but they make nice loads for flats & gons. Short pieces of thin tubing
(Steel) also are nice. The BB's & ball bearings are Ok but might pose a
"Roll-A-Round" issue. You might take the Knock outs from an elect. box & make
them look like man hole covers. They would look cool in a foundry yard
setting with a crane. You could get a bit of HO track & some of the On-30 ore
cars with a small docksider as a yard goat to make it look good. Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22530 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: CRANE LOADS/ & BLANTANT AD
Hi Guys,
I don't know if the gears from an erector set are brass or
not. but they make nice loads for flats & gons. Short pieces of thin tubing
(Steel) also are nice. The BB's & ball bearings are Ok but might pose a
"Roll-A-Round" issue. You might take the Knock outs from an elect. box & make
them look like man hole covers. They would look cool in a foundry yard
setting with a crane. You could get a bit of HO track & some of the On-30 ore
cars with a small docksider as a yard goat to make it look good. Mike S.
PS I FOR GOT TO MENTION I am selling my fluid now in a 4oz size for $10.00
+ $2.50 shipping With larger sizes coming, to refill. Postage & the cost of
small bottles has caused this change


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22531 From: Charlie&Edith Date: 12/23/2002
Subject: Transformer
Greetings to all! Need the help of our electrically inclined folks. Was
given the following and am wondering if it can be used in any way with train
operation? The following information is listed on the back of the
transformer; Plug-in, Class 2 transformer - PRI 120V 60HZ 0.45A - Sec 16.5
VAC 40 VA - BE156240CAA 0002 - A9710 - Basler Electric. This is cordless
and plugs into a wall outlet like a Timer. There are 2 screw terminals on
the end opposite the plug-in prongs. Any help or suggestions would be
greatly appreciated. Thanks and best wishes for a safe and enjoyable
holiday! Charlie
Group: S-Trains Message: 22532 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: Re: electromagnetic crane loads - summary of responses
Hi John:
Are you talking about some of the plastic parts painted grey and used
for the electromagnetic crane? Maybe they are magnetic (metallic?)
plastics.
Rance Velapoldi (Norway)
ps: what does the "notcoldenough" refer to? Come to Norway if you are
"not cold enough"!

John G wrote:

>Here is a compilation of the various responses I got to my question
>regarding what to use for a load for the magnetic crane. Thanks to
>all of you that replied!
>
>John Gasal
>
>
>
>Cut up pieces of Flyer rail are excellent. Also old tinplate wheels
>ala Marx.
>
>I use Erector set wheels and gears for my crane to load. They come in
>interesting shapes and are large enough to be dramatic. Plus they're
>Gilbert-made : )
>
>try flat washers and lock washers and some squared pieces of a metal
>from a coffee can will work (file the edges).
>
>How about BB's??
>
>Go to your friendly neighborhood Machine shop and see what scrap
>pieces they will let you have. Lots of small shapes that will work
>fine. You may have to clean the Oil off of them though
>
>Check out the magnetic crane pictures and descriptions on
>http://www.trainweb.org/crocon/scraig.html Verrrrry interesting!
>
>How about little steel nuts and bolts, about the size found in an
>Erector Set.
>
>I've got an original batch of these. They seem to be the punch outs
>from making erector girders.
>
>
>
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22533 From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Tom) Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: Happy Holidays
Yo:

As we here in New England prepare for a white Christmas I want to wish
everyone a safe and happy holiday season.

Season Greetings!

Tommy
Group: S-Trains Message: 22534 From: Bill Porter Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: Fixin' Flyer
Hello Fellow S Folk,

I noticed this closing comment from Brother Dewey in a recent
posting..."This trick was covered in one of my "Fixin' Flyer" columns in
The Dispatch (Blatant plug). ;-) S' David D."

Have these columns ever been combined into a published unit?

Merry Christmas,

Bill Porter
15212 79th Court N
Loxahatchee, FL 33470

wpporter@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 22535 From: MARVD6848@aol.com Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: (no subject)
<A HREF="http://www.3000toys.com/catalog/item_list.asp?start=101&osql=instr(blob,'Farm')>0:OB:ldesc;&setup=">Catalog Search Results</A>

<A HREF="mailto:toys@...">toys@...</A> this co has a very nice scale colection they keep
changing
all with new stuff




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22536 From: trainman634 Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: First Train Set
My first train set was a American Flyer set. It had a 300 or 300AC
Diecast Steam Engine, metal Reading tender, A.F. metal log car and a
630 Reading caboose. The caboose had a light inside. The set had a
metal black transformer. It was purchased by my father in 1946,1947
or 1948. I am not sure of the year because I was very young. Does
anyone have any idea what the name of my first train set? Happy
Holidays to all toy train lovers.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22537 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: 1:64 scale toy is the hotest Chrismas Present
Read todays USA Today page 3B. I saw some at a Mall
being sold out of a push cart. There was a powered
car for the last 2 years, but I don't think it had the
control that this has. So now race your train to the
crossing gate.

I would like to see us tie into the hot 1:64 car
market. That makes 1:64 the fasted growing scale!!!
Why not invite all collectors to our events? They
need places to meet and we could share the space or
rent.
Anyone in Nashville who is interested to trying a tie
in let me know.
Jim Sleeth

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22538 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: Re: First Train Set
**((My first train set was a American Flyer set. It had a 300 or 300AC
Diecast Steam Engine, It was purchased by my father in 1946,1947
or 1948.))**

Does/did, your Atlantic have smoke and choo-choo?? 1948, they came with smoke and
choo-choo. But in 1949, the 300AC came without smoke and choo-choo.

Rick.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22539 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: WHISTLE CONTROL
<A HREF="http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=480&item=1925217124&rd=1">eBay item 1925217124 (Ends Dec-14-02 19:09:56 PST ) - WFL AMERICAN FLYER
ELECTRONIC WHISTLE CONT.</A> Anyone know the # for this unit & the benefit of
it over the Fiber tube types. I imagine that the Vac. Tube would give a
better sound than the Fiber Vibrator type. I may make a few of these, if the
Vac Tube is avail. & they perform better. Mike S
PS: I have to take it apart to replace the cord so I'll try to make a
drawing of the few parts it contains. anyone know how to hook it up It has A
black & 2 yellow wires coming out & says AC & DC


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22540 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: Re: WHISTLE CONTROL
I believe they used a 117sn7 amplifier tube, probably very hard to find now
as it had a line voltage filament. They did have a very nice sound using a
couple of neon tube oscillators. You could use a more common tube by using a
filament transformer your design.

Carl

-----Original Message-----
From: anormal1@... [mailto:anormal1@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 6:40 PM
To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] WHISTLE CONTROL


<A
HREF="http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=480&item=19
25217124&rd=1">eBay item 1925217124 (Ends Dec-14-02 19:09:56 PST ) - WFL
AMERICAN FLYER
ELECTRONIC WHISTLE CONT.</A> Anyone know the # for this unit & the benefit
of
it over the Fiber tube types. I imagine that the Vac. Tube would give a
better sound than the Fiber Vibrator type. I may make a few of these, if
the
Vac Tube is avail. & they perform better. Mike S
PS: I have to take it apart to replace the cord so I'll try to make a
drawing of the few parts it contains. anyone know how to hook it up It has A

black & 2 yellow wires coming out & says AC & DC


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22541 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: First set
Fifty-two years ago tomorrow I tore open what was to become my first Flyer
set. A 290 with 3 green passenger cars. Still have it and it runs under the
tree every year. Hope all have a Happy ans safe Holiday. Ed & Jeanne in Fla


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22542 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas to all from Steve & Sam at S-'n-S Trains. We hope 2003 finds
you all healthy, wealthy, and wise.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22543 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: Reminder - Merry Christmas - Test Event
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Merry Christmas - Test Event

Date: Wednesday, December 25, 2002
Time: 12:00AM EST (GMT-05:00)

Because we failed to get a chat message last week, I added this
note to test our Yahoo Calendar Event notfication.
Hope your trains are running today.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22544 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 12/24/2002
Subject: Re: Reminder - Merry Christmas - Test Event
And a Merry Christmas to you too Paul, also to Steve and Sam and all.
Oh Boy! Trains!.....................Herky 1950
Obie Bell
Group: S-Trains Message: 22545 From: Walt Danylak Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: Re: WHISTLE CONTROL
--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, Carl Tuveson <carl@w...> wrote:
I believe they used a 117sn7 amplifier tube, probably very hard to
find now ...

Carl,

As far as I know, you can still special order tubes from Radio Shack.
Stop by your nearest RS and ask if the tube is still available.

Merry Christmas to all.

Walt
Group: S-Trains Message: 22546 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: Re: WHISTLE CONTROL
Walt,

Correction on the tube type. I dug mine out and it has a 117N7-GT in it.
It was a hard tube to fine in the 60's.

Does anybody have any track wiring info on the vacuum tube airchime
electronic controller. As I recollect there were a couple of ways to wire
them to the track.

Merry Christmas and Peace to all,
Carl

-----Original Message-----
From: Walt Danylak <waltdanylak@...>
[mailto:waltdanylak@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 7:03 AM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Re: WHISTLE CONTROL


--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, Carl Tuveson <carl@w...> wrote:
I believe they used a 117sn7 amplifier tube, probably very hard to
find now ...

Carl,

As far as I know, you can still special order tubes from Radio Shack.
Stop by your nearest RS and ask if the tube is still available.

Merry Christmas to all.

Walt



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Group: S-Trains Message: 22547 From: John G Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: Out of round traction tire
My 499 New Haven EP5 wobbles a bit when running. After some
measurements & visual inspection, I determined that a traction tire
was molded on "off center". See photo.

http://members.trainorders.com/notcoldenough/jg/ep5.jpg

The axle seems to be straight.

The Pullmore rubber tire in this case seems to be molded into the
wheel, so I am guessing I cannot simply replace the tire and will
have to replace the entire wheel.

Any ideas on how to fix this?

Merry Christmas

John Gasal
Group: S-Trains Message: 22548 From: John Swinderman Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: My First Flyer
Fifty-two years ago I woke up to the sight of a Royal Blue chugging around the
base of our Christmas tree. That same engine is under my tree right now. It's
been a life long joy to watch it run.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22549 From: John Foley Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: Merry Christmas
Hi Folks

Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and here's to
hoping for peace in the coming years.
John
Group: S-Trains Message: 22550 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: Re: My First Flyer
May I suggest running it clockwise one year and counter-clockwise the following so the wear & tear remains even.

Happy Holidays!
Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: John Swinderman <johnandrew002@...>
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 11:10 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] My First Flyer


Fifty-two years ago I woke up to the sight of a Royal Blue chugging around the
base of our Christmas tree. That same engine is under my tree right now. It's
been a life long joy to watch it run.


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All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22551 From: Jollivier4@cs.com Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: what d'ya get?
Remember when you were a kid? The first thing after opening presents was to
call everyone up and compare loot.

What choo choo stuff did you guys get?

I got the MTH Flyer log loader and a train thermometer for my cold, cold
garage train room (It was from the garage mice according to the card. Do you
think they were trying to tell me something?)

Merry Christmas,
Jacques
Group: S-Trains Message: 22552 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: Re: what d'ya get?
Okay. I got a Silver Flash loco, a Silver Bullet loco, a Guilford Station and car, an Operating Water Tank, a Package Loader, some track trips, parts and possibly a Mystic Station (if Doug has it in stock); all in E- condition. My wife always says I am trained. This year, she is right.
HO! HO! HO!

Happy Holidays!
Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: Jollivier4@...
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 3:18 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] what d'ya get?


Remember when you were a kid? The first thing after opening presents was to
call everyone up and compare loot.

What choo choo stuff did you guys get?

I got the MTH Flyer log loader and a train thermometer for my cold, cold
garage train room (It was from the garage mice according to the card. Do you
think they were trying to tell me something?)

Merry Christmas,
Jacques

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22553 From: theheadliner Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: Merry Christmas to All
Merry Christmas fellow AF collectors. Click on the link below:

http://holidays.blastcomm.com/

Jerry


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get your free email at http://quickmail.quickhosts.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 22554 From: Roy Inman Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: Re: WHISTLE CONTROL
Carl, et al,
another source might be Antique Electronic Supply at: 408-820-5411, fax
800-706-6789 or
www.tubesandmore.com.
Happy holidays :)
Roy Inman

> From: "Walt Danylak <waltdanylak@...>" <waltdanylak@...>
> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 12:02:33 +0000
> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [S-Trains] Re: WHISTLE CONTROL
>
> --- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, Carl Tuveson <carl@w...> wrote:
> I believe they used a 117sn7 amplifier tube, probably very hard to
> find now ...
>
> Carl,
>
> As far as I know, you can still special order tubes from Radio Shack.
> Stop by your nearest RS and ask if the tube is still available.
>
> Merry Christmas to all.
>
> Walt
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22555 From: Carl Tuveson Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: Re: WHISTLE CONTROL
Good Call...

I have their catalog and they have both the 117N7-GT $6.60 and the 117P7-GT
$4.95 listed.


Carl


-----Original Message-----
From: Roy Inman [mailto:rinphoto@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 6:43 PM
To: Walt Danylak <waltdanylak@...>; S-trains
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: WHISTLE CONTROL


Carl, et al,
another source might be Antique Electronic Supply at: 408-820-5411, fax
800-706-6789 or
www.tubesandmore.com.
Happy holidays :)
Roy Inman

> From: "Walt Danylak <waltdanylak@...>" <waltdanylak@...>
> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 12:02:33 +0000
> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [S-Trains] Re: WHISTLE CONTROL
>
> --- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, Carl Tuveson <carl@w...> wrote:
> I believe they used a 117sn7 amplifier tube, probably very hard to
> find now ...
>
> Carl,
>
> As far as I know, you can still special order tubes from Radio Shack.
> Stop by your nearest RS and ask if the tube is still available.
>
> Merry Christmas to all.
>
> Walt
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22556 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: Ertl geep for kitbashing project...
Happy holidays all,

It was suggesdted to me that I try and find a couple of Ertl geeps that
nearly everyone on this list talks about (I've never seen one) to kitbash
into a DD40AX Centennial rather than do radical surgery on any AF models
(makes sense to me). All I know about them is that they are battery
powered, S scale and could be had a farm stores somewhere at some point in
time.

sooooo...

Does anyone out there in S-land have any or can give me a lead or two in
obtaining a number of these engines?

Now to find eight wheeled power trucks:)

Jeff
Group: S-Trains Message: 22557 From: Steve Blancard Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: Re: Out of round traction tire
Weird. Could it be trued up in a lathe?

Steve Blancard


"John G " wrote:

> My 499 New Haven EP5 wobbles a bit when running. After some
> measurements & visual inspection, I determined that a traction tire
> was molded on "off center". See photo.
>
> http://members.trainorders.com/notcoldenough/jg/ep5.jpg
>
> The axle seems to be straight.
>
> The Pullmore rubber tire in this case seems to be molded into the
> wheel, so I am guessing I cannot simply replace the tire and will
> have to replace the entire wheel.
>
> Any ideas on how to fix this?
>
> Merry Christmas
>
> John Gasal
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 22558 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: out of round pulmor wheel
You should replace the wheel . Repros made by Neil Trump, who is on this
list, are now or soon will be available from Joe Haenn and Doug Peck. You
reuse the nylon insulator or replace it with a new one. The old wheel
should be pulled straight off with a wheel puller. The new wheel should be
squeezed straight on with a C clamp or vise.

You could also use an original wheel of course if you can find one.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 22559 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: Re: what d'ya get?
I got a 293 loco, and a 772 tower sss repro...

Life is good...
Group: S-Trains Message: 22560 From: MARVD6848@aol.com Date: 12/25/2002
Subject: (no subject)
<PRE> there is a time in everyone's life that good fortune shines on them it
seems for some not as lucky i my self from a family of 8 we went into
christmas with my father down with a sicknes that would not let him get up
for 4 years there was no income at this timeother than for milking the 5 or
6 milk cows it gave us a little money for the main foods no extras not a
new toy or any new clothes cause that winter the milk money was taken by the
land lady of which we was suposed to recive there now was no money and the
house that that we lived in caught fire the fire men put the fire out but
it left the house pretty bad off what with the smoke in the housestained
It' pretty bad then the land lady said we either pay the rent or get out of
this burned out house there wasent enough beds my brother slept in the top
cupboard of the clothes closet the fire department made a drive and brought
us a load of FRUITand christmas food &of old used toys, dolls but no train
we stayed till spring then moved to another rental Dad got better and my
mother came down with hepatitus so it was another christ mas with out any
toys. they make fun of the saying if you'r not good all you will get is
a chunk of coal well let me tell you that if we had gotten a chunk of coal i
would have been verry happy cause at least i would have had a night of being
verry warm any how i finely started gathering trains when i injured my
back and having two back surgery's i am able to run trains and none other
than gilbert flyer i had no idea of a american flyer gilbert so to all
even tho after all of the other christmas i dont work i am on social
security and a supplement i am still verry pleased to have some flyer in
my power thanks for letting me tell my storry merrychristmas
-----------------------------------------
Group: S-Trains Message: 22561 From: waldootten Date: 12/26/2002
Subject: Re: My First Flyer
--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "John Swinderman
<johnandrew002@y...>" <johnandrew002@y...> wrote:
> Fifty-two years ago I woke up to the sight of a Royal Blue
>chugging around the base of our Christmas tree. That same engine is
>under my tree right now. It's been a life long joy to watch it run.

___________________________________________________________

THANKS, John, for the memories. Christmas Day 2002 marked the
51st anniversary of my opening an A.C. Gilbert box containing set
No. 501T -- the reliable old 302AC, 640, 642 and 638 crummy.

It was a huge thrill for a 2-year-old, one that's stayed with me all
these years. Sadly, the set was given away without my knowledge
about 25 years ago and it had bothered me ever since. Making a
reassessment of my life after the 9/11 attacks, I decided to attempt
rekindling the joys of my youth, however simple they might be. It
took me about a month to find a 501T set matching my own set's LN
condition.

I couldn't stop there, so I've accumulated quite a bit of Flyer
stuff in the past 14 months. A few weeks ago, my wife said "Why
don't you take the trains out of the boxes and set up a huge layout
in the basement?"

At that point, I knew once again that I had picked the right lady.

Merry Christmas all,

Phil K.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22562 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 12/26/2002
Subject: Merry Christmas to all!
To all of my friends,
May I wish you a happy Winter Solstice holiday, by whatever name you
call it!

(Notice to my fellow Christians: December 25th is a ROMAN holiday. Current
research says Jesus was born in FEBRUARY.)

Happy Holidays!
Thorin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22563 From: Knight, Gene Date: 12/26/2002
Subject: What did I get?
One of the things I got was a TTUX that I can't eun because it won't go through the tunnels :)

Happy Holidays to you all!

Gene
Group: S-Trains Message: 22564 From: Bill Lane Date: 12/26/2002
Subject: interior kits for sale/trade
Hi All,

I am in the middle of reorganizing my massive parts and detail box. I have 4
Building and Structure boxcar interior wood kits up for grabs. (One pack has
a note on it - door missing) They were designed for the River Raisin PRR
round roof brass boxcars, but they could work in any boxcar. They are nice
thin scribed wood that is peel n stick. Sweet! I have them left over from my
custom painting days. I paid $15.95 each for them. Who wants them - want do
you want to give for them? I am very open to suggestions and trades. A good
start could be STOCK looking vehicles that are 1/64th and are pre 1957. I am
especially in need of pre 1950.

I have had a change of opinion on most brass cars. That is why the above are
now not needed. I solder hatches and doors shut because it scratches paint
and weathering jobs. There are plenty of opening doors on the S Helper
Service cars etc.

I recently set a record. I soldered SIX doors shut on 1 boxcar! The PRR X33a
has 2 opening ends doors. I just finished decaling it. I will post a photo
when it is completed.

Thanks
Bill
Group: S-Trains Message: 22565 From: Doug Peck Date: 12/26/2002
Subject: Re: PULLMOR WHEELS
We don't have those diesel PM wheels yet, but it shouldn't be long. Awaiting
shipment.
With them, we expect a new supply of the steam PM rins, and the MTH 785
pulleys. Both have been very popular items.

----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----
Subject: out of round pulmor wheel

You should replace the wheel . Repros are now or soon will be available
from Joe Haenn and Doug Peck. You
reuse the nylon insulator or replace it with a new one. The old wheel
should be pulled straight off with a wheel puller. The new wheel should be
squeezed straight on with a C clamp or vise.

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours - Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays: 2-5 PM (EST), and 7-9 PM.
Saturdays: 2-5 PM.
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please.)
Website: www.portlines.com
E-mail: doug@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 22566 From: srgriggs Date: 12/26/2002
Subject: Re: Ertl geep for kitbashing project...
--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, Jeffrey Tangeman <jt12313@n...>
wrote:
> Happy holidays all,
>
> It was suggesdted to me that I try and find a couple of Ertl geeps
that
> nearly everyone on this list talks about (I've never seen one) to
kitbash
> into a DD40AX Centennial rather than do radical surgery on any AF
models
> (makes sense to me). All I know about them is that they are battery
> powered, S scale and could be had a farm stores somewhere at some
point in
> time.
>
> sooooo...
>
> Does anyone out there in S-land have any or can give me a lead or
two in
> obtaining a number of these engines?
>
> Now to find eight wheeled power trucks:)
>
> Jeff

I think I remember seeing the Ertl Geep sets for sale in the Scenery
Unlimited catalog.

Scenery Unlimited/Heimburger House contact info:

http://www.heimburgerhouse.com/contact.htm

Scott
Group: S-Trains Message: 22567 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 12/26/2002
Subject: THE "S" TRAINS I GOT!
Twas the night before Christmas when
my daughter visited us and gave me the
most thoughtful gift. She went on Ebay
and found an excellent condition, in box,
629 Missouri Pacific Stock Car. Of the
hundreds of Flyer items I did not have
that one.

My wife blessed me with two S-Helper Service
3 Bay PS-2, Reading Hopper cars. Two boxes
came to her from S- Helper and she thought
the hoppers were sent seperately so imagine
my surprise when the first box I opened contained
hundreds of rail joiners meant for someone else.
I hope they got their trains running since I got their
rail joiners by mistake.

My first Flyer as you may remember was set 5004
with a 342 AC. My uncle in 1952 had updated
the set with brand new knuckle couplers.

May you be blessed this holiday season.

Staying on the NPSG branchline
of NASG track, Glenn
NASG Secretary
Group: S-Trains Message: 22568 From: trainman634 Date: 12/26/2002
Subject: AF/LTI Pennsylvania Boxcars
How many different Pennsylvania boxcars did Lionel make? Thanks for
your help.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22569 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 12/26/2002
Subject: Re: what d'ya get?
From Jeffery Madden <nasgdispatch@...>

"Chuck --- forward this to S groups - I had trouble. "

First Christmas trains set was about 1949 from my parents - a Lionel
3-rail O gauge freight set. A year later my uncle in Pennsylvania (we
had Christmas in Pennsylvania that year) gave me an AF Circus Train set
with cupola bridge, cattle loader and car, Mystic Station and Beacon
Tower. I sold the Lionel set in my teens to buy HO. I kept the Flyer
the longest - sold it during my college years to buy an electric
guitar. I never learned to play the guitar very well - serves me
right. Then HO and some O for many years. Finally, to S Scale in
1993-4. Flyer was always my favorite tinplate since it was more
realistic and had two rail.

Jeff M



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22570 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 12/26/2002
Subject: What did'ya get?
S-friends,

This year nothing from others. But, it is the first year to have the Putt docksider running around the tree. It's small enough to not look odd on the 31 inch circle of PikeMaster track. In a 14 foot wide manufactured home, space is at a premium, but a docksider was built for tight curves. I also bought my first Flyer Christmas car, so it's going around the tree now.

So, I'm happy. I have a train going, puffing smoke, and all's well.

jfred



---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22571 From: jahoozdumm Date: 12/26/2002
Subject: Re; What did'ya get?
Since my train tastes are a bit finicky, family members usually opt
to send cash my way rather than try to figure out what the heck kind
of train thing I might want. Haven't decided what to spend the cash
on yet, BUT... I did get some 1/64 diecast vehicles, one of which is
radio controlled! It doesn't seem to have any trouble charging over
various objects that I thought would stop it, so it may even get over
Flyer re-railers. Who knows, we could be playing 1/64th
scale "chicken" with the SD60 soon. 8^D


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22572 From: Marty.Thorin Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: 727 is back at Emery
To all:
I have received an e-mail from Dave Johnson, owner of the Iowa
Traction Railroad, that 727 is now resting comfortably in the Iowa Traction
shops at Emery. 727 has been the center of a lengthy fight. Dave wants to
fix a faulty bearing and get her running. (He has the replacement bearing.)
My guess is the Mason City and Clear Lake Historical Society wanted to keep
her as she was the center piece of their collection.
At every step of the way, every judge has found the MC&CL HS in
violation of their purchase agreement for 727 which allows Dave Johnson the
right to purchase her and take possession. (She must be run at least once
per year. She has not moved for over three years.)
Photos of this move were taken by my father, Soph Marty, when she
moved on December 26th. I am sure they are still in his camera. They will
be slides when they are developed. Soph has a slide scanner. Maybe he will
send out a shot or two.
727 was built in the 1920s for the Chicago, North Shore, and
Milwaukee railroad. When the North Shore shut down in December of 1963, 727
was sold to the Iowa Chapter of the National Railway Historical Society and
moved to Centerville, Iowa. She was sold (with strings attached) to Iowa
Terminal in 1968. The sale of Iowa Terminal to Iowa Traction did not
include 727. Instead, these strings were pulled to force her sale to the
Mason City and Clear Lake Historical Society. The strings remained
attached. Again the strings were pulled and now she belongs to the Iowa
Traction Railroad. I expect the strings are still attached and Dave has an
excellent relationship with the Iowa Chapter.
Dave has plans to repair what needs repairing. He hopes to have her
running in May or June. He is hoping to discuss restoration with the Iowa
Chapter of the National Railway Historical Society for the interior floor,
heaters, seats, as well as the exterior. (I believe she is currently
wearing Iowa Traction colors and numbered 102.)

Well, I now know what I got for Christmas! I hope your holiday brought you
as many smiles as this has brought to me.
Thorin



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22573 From: Steve Blancard Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: Re; What did'ya get?
Radio controlled 1/64" cars?? Cool! That opens all kinds of possibilities. I
wonder if the bodies of other vehicle could be used on the radio controlled chassis?

What is the brand/type of car? Where did Santa get it? Gotta picture??

Steve Blancard

"jahoozdumm " wrote:

> Since my train tastes are a bit finicky, family members usually opt
> to send cash my way rather than try to figure out what the heck kind
> of train thing I might want. Haven't decided what to spend the cash
> on yet, BUT... I did get some 1/64 diecast vehicles, one of which is
> radio controlled! It doesn't seem to have any trouble charging over
> various objects that I thought would stop it, so it may even get over
> Flyer re-railers. Who knows, we could be playing 1/64th
> scale "chicken" with the SD60 soon. 8^D
>
> Chuck F.
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 22574 From: X3C12@aol.com Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: (2) Questions about my pre-1953 AF's
1. I'm going to use all original Code 220 track (.535") top of rail to
bottom of tie) in my layouts. In looking on E-Bay at the "original" tracks,
switches, etc.; they never list the Code! If people who are selling this
stuff are claiming "original", what's the chances of it being Code 220 or do
I have to ask each time out? Or do you think I'm better off looking for
track, switches, etc. through the clubs, Dealers, etc.?

2. The original AF instruction manual shows a "make it yourself" track bed
with tapered 1/2" thick slats covered with slate surfaced roofing paper.
Anyone have any experience with the wood and roofing paper? Or is there a
better way?

Thanks for your help.

Bill Adams
Group: S-Trains Message: 22575 From: johnbraker@webtv.net Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1685
side rod questions On 12/21
David Dewey states side rods should be installed with the oval hole
towards the chassis front,and the"bump"towards the rear.
My problem is I rely heavily on the K-line black book service
manual.This book shows me the opposite with the exception of the 316 on
page 56. Various pictures agree with Mr. Dewey except for the 293 which
has the bump in the front.
Does the positioning of the bump vary from model to model? Which way
was the bump facing when installed at the factory,as I try to be as
accurate as possible.
Any and all info is welcome.
Thanks,
John Braker
Group: S-Trains Message: 22576 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: My first American Flyer
Flyer fans,
My first American Flyer arrived 54 years ago on Christmas morning
1948. It was a New York Central Hudson freight outfit bearing
locomotive number 322. It had a Missouri Pacific cattle car, floodlight

car, another car type unknown (54 years is a long time), and a Reading
caboose. Since I always awoke early on Christmas morning in those days,

my dad and one of his employees were just putting the last sections of
track into the oval as I descended the stairs and looked into the living

room that morning. My dad bought Schuylkill Haven (PA) Cab Company in
the spring of 1948 and left his employment at the Reading Locomotive
Shop in Reading, PA in early summer of the same year. At 11 years of
age I was looking forward to A.C. Gilbert trains for a long time.
The next year saw a 322AC Hudson with red New Haven coaches and an
operating mail car. But throughout the years the 322 has always
remained my favorite. My dad would be 100 on 16 January of 2003, but I
will never forget that morning and still can see him putting the final
track sections together.
As we here in Orwigsburg, PA dig out from our white Christmas, I
want to thank John and Phil for sharing their "first" Flyer stories.
W. Thomas Boussum

"If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch you must start by
creating the universe." Carl Sagan in "Cosmos."
Group: S-Trains Message: 22577 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1692
Up Dating Accessories.

Over the holidays I reworked a couple of interesting accessories. My
LIONEL fueling station, a nice addition to Flyer, but the operation, was
radical. I added limit switches at each end of the attendants run, one
button brings the attendant to the locomotive with a fuel hose, the
second button sends him back to the house. I rebuilt a LIONEL operating
semaphore (coil had been burn out) a coil from an old LIONEL e-unit, it
runs cooler than the original. My next project is to re power or re gear
the LIONEL operating control tower, the attendants spin to fast. My
operating layout has a variety of operating equipment from different
manufactures and many from the junk boxes at train shows, the price is
right , and repainting, kit bashing salvages a lot of other wise lost
train equipment.

Jerry 77-11644


________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22578 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: My first Flyer...2
I still have my first American Flyer set...It was the 1948 302ac with 3
passenger cars. oval of track...no trans....I used the transformer I had
gotten with the 1945 671 Lionel freight set.....My second set was the 1950
5004 set with the rare die cast generator car and A cattle loader and A set
of switches...I set it up on A 4 x 8 plywood table in my room...Played with
it for years...in 1952 I put A coal loader on lay a way for 14.95...Took all
my lunch money for A long time...I still have all of it, and they all still
work...The items are all still very nice, except for the 302...I used model
airplane dope to paint the tender and put C & O decals on it....Still
there....and A bent cowcatcher where the loco jumped off the table and
landed on the tile hearth by the gas fireplace...Even the 671 set
works...but it is displayed on the shelf....I do remember wanting the 312
set with the log loader in 1952 or 53...But it would be many years before I
got one...its suprising how one keeps stuff...I also still have A small
rubber squeek toy dog...One of my baby toys and my bronze shoes...but almost
no pictures of any thing back then...I still remember going to "Jacks Place"
to look at the trains almost every day...AND DREAMING....Those were good
times.....The 40's and 50's....Bob Conner
Group: S-Trains Message: 22579 From: William Lange Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Let's make them really run well!
I'm sure this is a newbie syndrome, get them together, get them running,
then figure out how they work!

At least I seem to have it.

Now that the Christmas rush is over and it's time to enjoy the holiday
season at a more leisurely pace, I'd like to take some time to tune up
my engines and rolling stock and get them running at their peak. The
engines have been lubed recently, although I'd like some input on an
ongoing maintenance schedule. My first inclination is to get the wheels
and trucks set correctly. I know there is a spec for gapping the wheels
on locomotives and rolling stock, but I haven't stumbled on it during a
morning of "S" site surfing. Can someone point me in the right
direction?



Bill Lange



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22580 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: (2) Questions about my pre-1953 AF's
Hi,

I'm not sure how to answer your question. Vintage Flyer two rail track is all the same code, whatever that is. No one ever lists the code of the original track when they sell it on eBay 'cuz they prob'ly don't know. If you buy all vintage Flyer two rail track, it will all match to vintage Flyer 2 rail switches, crosses, etc. I find the cheapest source of vintage Flyer track at local train shows - usually dirty and somewhat rusted, for $.25 to $.50 per section. There is a link off Paul Yorke's site for cleaning up track. I knock the rust off with a wire brush, then spray paint it flat black. After it dries, I whisk off the top and inside edges of the rails on my bench grinder with a wire wheel. It's a bit tedious to do a lot, but worth it when I buy it for $.25/section.

I've never tried Gilbert's technique of making wooden roadbed. I think the hard part would be to cut the 20" radius sections, then bevel them. I guess a circle cutting jig on a band saw and a chamfered bit on a router would do the job. Seems to me the finished product would be a bit noisy, tho'. Maybe using homosote that way would work better. Of course, there's always the vintage roadbed - usually a little expensive and often not in very good shape, plus there will be color variations from different lots stored under different conditions. Doug at Portlines sells Johnson repro rubber roadbed. You might want to check that out. Or, you could simply paint a right-of-way on top of your homosote-covered plywood train table, then run the track "naked" on that. I've cut little wooden filler ties and painted them - makes the track look like Gargraves and gives a pretty nice appearance. A little scenic gravel sprinkled around that and held down with some mastic could finish it off nicely.

The only limits I can see is one's imagination and budget.

Have fun!
Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: X3C12@...
To: s-trains@...
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 10:45 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] (2) Questions about my pre-1953 AF's


1. I'm going to use all original Code 220 track (.535") top of rail to
bottom of tie) in my layouts. In looking on E-Bay at the "original" tracks,
switches, etc.; they never list the Code! If people who are selling this
stuff are claiming "original", what's the chances of it being Code 220 or do
I have to ask each time out? Or do you think I'm better off looking for
track, switches, etc. through the clubs, Dealers, etc.?

2. The original AF instruction manual shows a "make it yourself" track bed
with tapered 1/2" thick slats covered with slate surfaced roofing paper.
Anyone have any experience with the wood and roofing paper? Or is there a
better way?

Thanks for your help.

Bill Adams

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22581 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1692
Hi,

I agree with kit-bashing and repainting to the extent that the stuff would otherwise be thrown out. Flyer pieces should never be thrown out, IMHO. Since most Erector Set parts are corroded and ugly looking by now, I kit-bash that stuff into bridges, ramps, etc. I'm now in the process of kit-bashing an electro-magnetic crane using Erector Set parts-is-parts. I'll custom paint it when I'm done and use it on my vintage Flyer layout. You can see some Erector Set bridges, etc. on my layout at my web site:
http://home.att.net/~timboy/home.html

Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: Gerald R Dobbs
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1692



Up Dating Accessories.

Over the holidays I reworked a couple of interesting accessories. My
LIONEL fueling station, a nice addition to Flyer, but the operation, was
radical. I added limit switches at each end of the attendants run, one
button brings the attendant to the locomotive with a fuel hose, the
second button sends him back to the house. I rebuilt a LIONEL operating
semaphore (coil had been burn out) a coil from an old LIONEL e-unit, it
runs cooler than the original. My next project is to re power or re gear
the LIONEL operating control tower, the attendants spin to fast. My
operating layout has a variety of operating equipment from different
manufactures and many from the junk boxes at train shows, the price is
right , and repainting, kit bashing salvages a lot of other wise lost
train equipment.

Jerry 77-11644


________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22582 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: RC CARS & OTHER USES
Hi All,
My plan for the use of a RC car is to take it apart & use the RC
parts for ??? Can you think of some uses for the RC servos etc. Like a garage
door opener for your other RC car to come out of. There must be other things
they can be used for. I'm talking about the cheaper 3-7 dollar ones.
Mike S.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22583 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: What did You get?
The only train related thing I got was a set of lighted street lights with
little red bows on them for my Christmas layout. They were a gift from my
partner Sam. It is virtually impossible for my wife or kids or grandchildren
to give me anything S-gauge related because my train room is packed floor to
ceiling with way more than I can use now. One of these days I'm going to sell
about 1,000 lb. of it.

Happy new year to all.

Steve Blackburn....S-'n-S Trains....Boise, Idaho


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22584 From: Gale Hall Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: trades
Hey to ya,

Got a few things I'm interested in trading off:
1) a very late production 632 LNE hopper shell, painted gray, all steps, no trucks. this is the shell used in the 900 hoppers with a rivet holding the truck in position

2)five blind AF drivers from the Hudson or Pacific, no crank pins, just the drivers, insulators good and tight to tires and hub....again no crank pins.

3)two AF DC fields for steam engine, just like a normal field, except no windings and has a couple brass plates riveted in their place.

4)several Miller diesel hirail dummy wheel sets, no armature or split wheels, these are just wheels and axles, brass tires insulated both sides, can be bridged for power pickup...interested in trading for the same in scale flanges

5)three AF 947 NP reefers, one car weak lettering on one side, boxcar red paint touched up on this car, repair on truck sideframes, one good, one good repair on sideframe, has early fiber brake wheel, paint weak on ends from factory

6)fleet of IC reefers 9 cars and three shells all road numbers, many never run.

7) an Alantic boiler, multipart bolier only, no whistle, bell or handrails, just the boiler

Interesed in AF double or triple hopper shells, Miller scale diesel wheelsets or junk scale items you might have around.

Thanks for looking

Contact off list

gale hall


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22585 From: Dan Brindell Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: 1/64 RC cars
The 1/64 RC cars were supposed to be the "hot" toy this Christmas, or at
least that's what the retailers were hoping. Radio Shack sells them, among
many other places. Even the Modell's sporting goods store near me was
selling them. The Shack calls them ZipZaps. They cost about $20 list,
although you will undoubtedly see them on sale after Christmas. Check out:
http://www.radioshack.com/Partners/ZipZaps/ZipZapsHome.asp

Just one caution if you are planning to run them on your train layout: the
steering control is not very "fine" or "granular". So if you want to run
your 1/64 car on a 1/64 road, good luck. You'll have a lot of crashes
unless your "fine" motor skills are a lot "finer" than mine. However, they
are fun to race on a hard floor (not carpet).

Dan B.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Blancard" <splitdorf@...>
To: <eighthmile@...>
Cc: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re; What did'ya get?


> Radio controlled 1/64" cars?? Cool! That opens all kinds of
possibilities. I
> wonder if the bodies of other vehicle could be used on the radio
controlled chassis?
>
> What is the brand/type of car? Where did Santa get it? Gotta picture??
>
> Steve Blancard
>
> "jahoozdumm " wrote:
>
> > Since my train tastes are a bit finicky, family members usually opt
> > to send cash my way rather than try to figure out what the heck kind
> > of train thing I might want. Haven't decided what to spend the cash
> > on yet, BUT... I did get some 1/64 diecast vehicles, one of which is
> > radio controlled! It doesn't seem to have any trouble charging over
> > various objects that I thought would stop it, so it may even get over
> > Flyer re-railers. Who knows, we could be playing 1/64th
> > scale "chicken" with the SD60 soon. 8^D
> >
> > Chuck F.
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22586 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: 1/64 RC cars
This is really interesting stuff.

Would it be possible to replace/reprogram the RC steering mechanism so the
car would follow a silver line of magnetic paint or something similar?

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 22587 From: Gale Hall Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: trades additional items wanted
Sorry I forgot these items that I am looking for 3 Min Lindy Chevy Vegas and any Marnold parts panels or controls.

gale hall


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22588 From: Dan Brindell Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: 1/64 RC cars
Tom, I don't know about the magnetic paint, but before you get too excited,
you should keep in mind one other limitation of these cars: batteries. They
have an on-board, rechargable NiMH battery that is good for three to nine
minutes. After that, you have to pick up the car and put it in the
re-charging cradle for 45 to 90 seconds; then you get another three to nine
minutes, and so on.

I suppose there just isn't room in these cars for any more battery capacity
than that. The websites are:
http://www.zipzaps.com
and
http://www.microsizers.com
Of the two, the Microsizers seem more versatile. The manufacturer makes
parts and "hop-up" kits so you can change tires, gear ratios, etc. Sizes of
the cars (for those who are really into scale operation) are shown on the
website. They are about the same size as Hot Wheels cars, but they have a
wire antenna that sticks up an inch or so.

A detailed review of these cars can be found at
http://www.rcuniverse.com/reviews.php?s=&action=show_review&reviewid=50%20

Dan B.

----- Original Message -----
From: <jarcho@...>
To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 4:56 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] 1/64 RC cars


> This is really interesting stuff.
>
> Would it be possible to replace/reprogram the RC steering mechanism so the
> car would follow a silver line of magnetic paint or something similar?
>
> Tom Jarcho
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22589 From: Don Thompson Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: SHS today's shipment
The following items arrived today:
40' Rebuilt boxcars -
http://www.showcaseline.com/rebuiltboxcars_in_stock.html
01010 Canadian National #1
01011 Canadian National #2
01012 Seaboard Air Line "Orange Blossum Special"
01013 Seaboard Air Line "Silver Meteor"
01014 AT&SF "The Super Chief"

40' Wood side reefers -
http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
01000 Pacific Fruit Express #1 "double herald"
01001 Pacific Fruit Express #2 "double herald"
01006 NRCC Banana Car
01007 URTC 92132 Schlitz Beer Car
01017 Century Beer Car
01015 Fruit Growers Express #1 "double deck"
01016 Fruit Growers Express #2 "double deck"

PS Jon, please add this to our What's New column -
http://www.showcaseline.com/whatsnew.html

Best regards and Happy New Year,
Don Thompson
http://www.showcaseline.com/
Group: S-Trains Message: 22590 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: PM Rims and 785 Pulley
Joe's Train Repair still has plenty of the repro
PulMor rims for steam locos in stock. Also still
stock the replacement pulley for the MTH 23785 Coal
Loader. Diesel rims are expected shortly.

Joe


=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22591 From: Joseph Haenn Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Christmas
This Christmas I received the book, American Flyer
Classic Toy Trains by Gerry and Janet Souter. This is
an excellent tabletop book with tons of pictures and
covers American Flyer from its founding in Chicago
through today. Although it contains several factual
errors, I highly recommend it.

BTW, the author states that the Royal Blue was
"aguably American Flyer's...best-looking locomotive"
followed by the 370 GM GP-7. I disagree and believe
that the Alco PAs were arguably the best looking
locomotives (especially the Santa Fes) followed by the
B6b 0-6-0 PRR switcher with slope-back tender. What
do you guys think?

Joe

=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 22592 From: Steve Blancard Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: 1/64 RC cars
I looked at both sites. The ZipZap site shows one vehicle that could be used in the
transition era, the rest are modern cars. The usuable one is a jeep, but the cartoon
character definately needs to be removed. I wonder if the body could be swapped out
with an older style, maybe a sedan delivery or a model A.

Steve

Dan Brindell wrote:

> Tom, I don't know about the magnetic paint, but before you get too excited,
> you should keep in mind one other limitation of these cars: batteries. They
> have an on-board, rechargable NiMH battery that is good for three to nine
> minutes. After that, you have to pick up the car and put it in the
> re-charging cradle for 45 to 90 seconds; then you get another three to nine
> minutes, and so on.
>
> I suppose there just isn't room in these cars for any more battery capacity
> than that. The websites are:
> http://www.zipzaps.com
> and
> http://www.microsizers.com
> Of the two, the Microsizers seem more versatile. The manufacturer makes
> parts and "hop-up" kits so you can change tires, gear ratios, etc. Sizes of
> the cars (for those who are really into scale operation) are shown on the
> website. They are about the same size as Hot Wheels cars, but they have a
> wire antenna that sticks up an inch or so.
>
> A detailed review of these cars can be found at
> http://www.rcuniverse.com/reviews.php?s=&action=show_review&reviewid=50%20
>
> Dan B.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <jarcho@...>
> To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 4:56 PM
> Subject: [S-Trains] 1/64 RC cars
>
> > This is really interesting stuff.
> >
> > Would it be possible to replace/reprogram the RC steering mechanism so the
> > car would follow a silver line of magnetic paint or something similar?
> >
> > Tom Jarcho
> >
> >
> >
> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> > All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22593 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: Christmas
I lean towards the New Haven with the pentagrams. Wish I had one in E- or better condition!

Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Haenn
To: S Trains
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 9:16 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Christmas


This Christmas I received the book, American Flyer
Classic Toy Trains by Gerry and Janet Souter. This is
an excellent tabletop book with tons of pictures and
covers American Flyer from its founding in Chicago
through today. Although it contains several factual
errors, I highly recommend it.

BTW, the author states that the Royal Blue was
"aguably American Flyer's...best-looking locomotive"
followed by the 370 GM GP-7. I disagree and believe
that the Alco PAs were arguably the best looking
locomotives (especially the Santa Fes) followed by the
B6b 0-6-0 PRR switcher with slope-back tender. What
do you guys think?

Joe

=====
Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines
American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions
Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International
joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22594 From: bellokdaka@webtv.net Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: Best looking locomotives
My picks, Diesel: Santa Fe Alco PA .........
Steam: U.P. 4-8-4....................................
Obie
Group: S-Trains Message: 22595 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Best look?
>followed by the
B6b 0-6-0 PRR switcher with slope-back tender. What
do you guys think?<



I like the NYC&StL switcher myself.

jfred




---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22596 From: john swinderman Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Best looking locomotive
Royal Blue....hands down


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22597 From: Spots350SL@aol.com Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: 1/64 RC cars
Speaking of mini RC cars, Sharper Image has a two cool cars, the new hummer
H2 and the New Chevy SSR, I know they are new designs and all but they are
surprisingly detailed and scaled properly. They come in sets of two, a yellow
hummer H2 and the blue chevy. they can be run at teh same time if desired,
ive been terrorizing the dog all day. The set is only $39.99 and they charge
in two minutes.

-Michael
Chicago, IL


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22598 From: Don Thompson Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: Best look?
I agree with J Fred, the 0-8-0 is the best looking, with the Hudson
and UP 4-8-4 a close second. The flat roof hurts the PA as does the
oversized trucks on the GP-7 and cab on the Baldwin. I guess the best
non-steam engine would have to be the electric New Haven EP-5.
Don

JFrederick Roberts wrote:

>>followed by the
>>
>>
>B6b 0-6-0 PRR switcher with slope-back tender. What
>do you guys think?<
>
> I like the NYC&StL switcher myself.
>
>jfred
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22599 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: BEST LOOK
For me the 343's are the best looking then the Blue & Yellow Santa Fe's
Mike S.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22600 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: PULLMORE & 343's
Anyone know if the 342 came with Pullmore & did the 343's all come with
Pullmore? Mike S.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22601 From: Spots350SL@aol.com Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: BEST LOOK
my favorites are the 4-8-4's and the santa fe ABA locos, the red/silver and
the blue/yellow.

-Michael
Chicago, IL


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22602 From: Gary Chidester Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: What I got...Then and now.
Hope I'm not too late to share.

In 1964 I was five years old and I got the 20766 Mohawk. My uncle that is
ten years or so older than I brought down his 944 crane for me to use with
my set. I was in heaven!

Since then I have added to my collection and this Christmas my Mom added to
it as well. She found, with the help of my Aunt in Aberdeen, Washington, a
302AC, 640, 639, 628, and 638 all in excellent condition with boxes,
instructions and inspection papers for each car. I'm not one to need or
even seek boxes, but this was really neat to get this set in such great
shape! It was like getting a brand new set for Christmas! Not one of the
most collectible sets, but it came from my mom and it was like being a kid
again!

gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 22603 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Side Rod question.
In a message dated 12/27/2002 8:37:05 PM Mountain Standard Time,
S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes:

>
> From: johnbraker@...
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 1685
>
> side rod questions On 12/21
> David Dewey states side rods should be installed with the oval hole
> towards the chassis front,and the"bump"towards the rear.
> My problem is I rely heavily on the K-line black book service
> manual.This book shows me the opposite with the exception of the 316 on
> page 56. Various pictures agree with Mr. Dewey except for the 293 which
> has the bump in the front.
> Does the positioning of the bump vary from model to model? Which way
> was the bump facing when installed at the factory,as I try to be as
> accurate as possible.
> Any and all info is welcome.
> Thanks,
> John Braker
>
> John,
All of the 4-6-X American Flyer Locos came from the factory with the "bump"
on the side rods to the rear of the loco and the "elongated" hole to the
front. The ones you are seeing otherwise are ones that have been taken apart
by someone and put back together incorrectly. Mr. Dewey is right on this one.
(will miracles never cease)? {8>)

Steve Blackburn...S-'n-S Trains...Boise


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22604 From: jahoozdumm Date: 12/27/2002
Subject: Re: Re; What did'ya get?
Several folks asked:

>What is the brand/type of car?

We got the "Microsizer" brand. $15 at Target, although the very next
day they were up to $30 at the same store. They're licensed by
Tomica, and cost $50 for the same thing under the Tomica name. There
are also "Z Cars" that come with an egg-shaped transmitter/charger
which also serves as a storage case. Then again,for $20 there's
another brand that comes on a bubble-topped pedestal. All these use
the same basic stucture for the cars. Alternate gear ratios and
motors are available for the Microsizers. A friend put the lowest
gears in his, which made the car considerably more driveable. We've
seen them at upscale toy stores, at Target, and at hobby stores.

The cars are current designs, and are not strictly to scale, being a
bit shortened on the order of the "Muscle Machines" line of diecast
collectibles. The controls are not proportional. The steering is
left/center/right, and the throttle is forward/stop/reverse. Still,
it's much better than the "back-up-to-turn" control of older designs.
So far, I've seen them offered in four different frequencies.

I did happen across another brand at Robinson's/May. Only two were
left. They were very accurate looking modern pick-ups, with about
twice the wheel base of the others. Unfortunately, I'd already shot
my Christmas wad...

These things have been VERY big sellers, even without any TV show to
go with them. No wonder, they're just plain FUN! I expect to see the
technology improve rapidly.


Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22605 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Re: Re; What did'ya get?
Hi,

Concerning incorporating trains with slot cars: One way to handle a grade crossing would be with the "jump" section of roadway. I think there is also a "which lane chicane" section and a "loop the loop section". How cool and dramatic would it be to jump the cars over the trains! Wouldn't THAT get the attention of people at a show!!! And all with AC Gilbert stuff.

Have fun!
Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: eighthmile
To: Tim Brown
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 1:48 AM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re; What did'ya get?


Tim,

I've been exploring a similar idea with our collection of HO (actually much closer to 1/64) scale slot cars. The most complex issue would be a working grade crossing, of course. I'm hoping the RC cars used with the trains in a public display will get the attention of younger visitors. Couldn't hurt, I guess.

Take care.

Chuck F.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22606 From: Roy Hoffman Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Re: Best looking locomotive
How about the Silver Rocket with the optional B unit added.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22607 From: Roy Inman Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] Re: Best looking locomotive
The Silver Flash has my vote.
As a toy train fantasy from the '50's, it had no equal.
Roy Inman :)

----------
>
>
> How about the Silver Rocket with the optional B unit added.
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22608 From: keefer1_us Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Rerailers
Doug Peck has some repro rerailers listed on ebay.At $17.95 it looks
like a good value.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22609 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Christmas goodies....
No new trains for Christmas, (well, I did buy myself a piece of Lionel AF rolling stock!),.. but a few train related items. I got a couple more buildings
and a Lemax mountain for the Christmas layout,..and a record from 1972 called, "Steel Rails
Under Thundering Skys". Sounds of steam locos with thunder and rain sounds thrown in! Now I have two old records with the sounds of old steam locos! I would like to copy them to CD in the future.
I hope for my birthday in January, that good ol' mom renews my S-Gaugian subscription, since she missed it for Christmas! She's 83 so I cut her a LITTLE slack! :^)

Soon will be packing up the Christmas layout, after New Years, not much time left...so I'd better get in some train time!!

Rick.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22610 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Re: Best looking locomotive
For absolute toy train distinctiveness, how 'bout the Wild, Wild West - you know, The Franklin.

Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: Roy Inman
To: S-trains
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 8:31 AM
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] Re: Best looking locomotive


The Silver Flash has my vote.
As a toy train fantasy from the '50's, it had no equal.
Roy Inman :)

----------
>
>
> How about the Silver Rocket with the optional B unit added.
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22611 From: keith kuzma Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: test
just testing

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22612 From: David A. Highfield Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Re: Re; What did'ya get?
In addition to the Souter book, I also received Charles Ditlefsen's "Those
Magnificent Trains" block calendar for 2003. There's a different color
picture of various engines for each day.
January 1 - C&O E unit #4026, 1961.
January 7 - Pennsy K4 #612 steam, 1957.
February 24 - UP #9000, 4-12-2, 1956.
And so forth!
It comes from the Cedco Publishing Co., 100 Pelican Way, San Rafael, CA
94901. www.cedo.com.
My son stumbled across this calendar in a D.C. area bookstore. A year-long
delight for $12.99.
Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 22613 From: keith kuzma Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Ebay item
I just bought a reproduction rerailer from ebay seller
Portlines.He has another listed. Item number
3103567504.I think this item should go over well.The
price seems reasonable at $17.95 plus shipping. I
imagine you could contact Doug direct if you didn't
want to wait for the auction to end.Keith

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22614 From: Mark Kiner Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Reverse unit in dual motor diesel
A couple of years ago I bought my first original AF diesel. This unit is a
satin Rocket 474.

The reverse unit has always been a little ornery in this diesel.

I have a few LTI diesels and several steam original AF engines.

Anyway this was my first experience with an original AF twin motor diesel.

On with the Story...


I decided to do a rebuild on this unit. I have always prided myself in how
smooth my reverse units work in all my steamers and how well they all run,
but this diesel is eating my lunch.

I turned the armatures and put new brushes in the motors and then lubed
everything up. I have a little chassis wear in the axle bushings, but not
bad so elected not to do this rebuild.

The reverse unit looked reasonably good so I polished the drum, made sure
everything was free in the ratchet mechanism and set the fingers so they had
minimal drag on the drum, but still provided good contact. There were a
couple of dings in the drum between contacts, but the didn't look bad and I
deburred the craters so they wouldn't be as apt to catch the fingers.

Well the unit didn't improve much. It pulls better, runs cooler and draws
less amps, but the reverse unit is not as silky smooth as my steamers.

(What I mean by this is low voltage to drive the ratchet solenoid for the
drum and no movement of the engine to create the shift.)

Well, I pulled the unit back apart and put in a new drum, and new original
fingers (I think the originals are a little less stiff than the repros I
have). Ok so I now have done everything I know. New drum, check coil
resistance and compare force to a good working reverse unit from a steamer,
smooth everything on mechanism.

Test operation with the unit suspended where the wheels don't touch the
ground would still require more of a hit with transformer voltage to shift
than I think is proper.

The reverse unit shifts nicely when the wires are unsoldered to the two
drive motors/fields.

My conclusion after messing with this all this time is that there is
sufficient voltage drop/current draw to the motors that this is just the way
an old dual motor chassis works. This shows up in a more positive shift with
from neutral to power than from either powered position to neutral.

So what am I missing here?

I thought about running a wires up to the coil on the reverse units from the
contact shoes thinking that this would to some extent reduce the voltage
drop through the normal path, and provide track voltage direct to the coil,
but haven't tried it yet.

Does anyone have one of these dual motor diesel chassis that shifts like a
steamer?
Group: S-Trains Message: 22615 From: Steve Blancard Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: "wood stove" smoke fluid
Last week I asked if anyone had tried the "burnt wood" scented smoke
fluid by MEGA-STEAM. The actual name is "wood stove". I order some and
tried it out yesterday. It seems to smoke very well in my Franklin and
has a distinctive burnt pine smell, quite appropriate for the Franklin.
I won't use it in my coal burners, but for the Franklin its fine. Would
also be good for smoke units in a caboose or building or maybe a hobo
fire. They expect to have "coal" fluid available in a couple weeks.

Steve Blancard
Group: S-Trains Message: 22616 From: keith kuzma Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: rerailers and best looking
Check out the great price on the new REPRO RERAILERS
Doug Peck is offering on ebay.$17.97 plus shipping.I
watched too many rusty originals sell for around $30
to pass up on this deal.Best looking,a Hudson pulling heavyweights.Keith

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22617 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Re: FW: [S-Trains] Re: Best looking locomotive
The 1946 PRR K5 No. 312 with "Pennsylvania" on the tender and with the smoke box front in the correct position before its boiler was lengthened to accommodate SIB -- classic Pennsy through and through. The '46 322 NYC J3a Hudson is a close second two for me.

(BTW, the '46 versions of all the vintage Gilbert steamers are to be preferred because they have a correct roadname painted on their tenders. The porportions of the K5, the USRA 0-8-0, and the Atlantic were lengthened and spoiled a wee bit with the advent of SIB in 1948).

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 22618 From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Best looking
I gotta say the Washington engine is the best looking. I don't mean size or
proportion. Just the colors and paint job. Then I like the Silver Bullet.
After that the 4-8-4 the 4-6-4 then those PA's. Oh heck, I don't know. I like
em all except the blue docksider. Yucky.

Chris The Trainnut


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22619 From: Steve Roche Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Dallas train layout
Today a friend invited me to see the annual Christmas train layout at North Park Mall in Dallas. It was a beautiful layout with 32 separate trains running at a time. Scenery was spectacular, a modelers dream. They were running mostly O gauge, but nobodies perfect. However, the truly most impressive thing about this layout is that it has generated over $600,000.00 over the years for the local Ronald McDonald house which provides over half its annual operating budget. If you get a chance you should check it out. Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22620 From: Steve Roche Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Layout suggestions
Put together my first modular layout under and around the tree this year I had (4) 4 x 8 sheets 0f 1/2" plywood and ran 4 tracks as well as a bunch of accessories. Worked well but looking to improve for next year. The layout is up 6 weeks a year before the wife wants the living room back (we have no basements in Texas, and running trains in a non air conditioned garage during summer is not an option)
On the plywood I laid down felt cloth to simulate snow and nailed my flyer track down (mostly with roadbed)
Looking for some comments.
Ground covering- since this is put up around Christmas I want to stay with the Christmas theme. I would like something a bit more realistic than my felt cloth but I do need something durable as many areas need to be stepped on to assist errant trains.
Linking modules together-Track was secured in place except for a piece closest to each edge. I would butt modules together and then connect the two pieces of loose track (one on each module together) Any better ideas.
Controls- exclusivly flyer push buttons. They worked fine, but any other ideas.
I appreciate any feedback. Steve Roche


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22621 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: GATS show
Went to GATS show today in Tampa Fl. Very crowded, and not much Flyer. What
Flyer was there was high priced but premium stuff. Managed to pick up a
Southern Pacific obs. Now need vista and coach to complete the set. Would
like to extend an invitation to anyone planning on visiting the Fla west
coast, to call or email me and come by to talk Flyer. I'm in St. Petersburg
Fl and my # is 727-327-3115 in the eves.
Anyone on the list belong to TTOS?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22622 From: Jim Hannawald Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Stock yard cattle
I just acquired a stock yard and the cattle are in need of some new feet. I think this has been discussed in the past but I can't locate any of the old messages.

What is being used to replace the worn out material on the bottom to the cattle? Is there a source of this material or what is a good substitute??


Jim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22623 From: bull_gator_1 Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Rare American Flyer S Gauge #728 Rerailer ??????????????
Hello Group,

I've just returned from spending Christmas in Florida. The good news
is I was away from work the entire time. The bad news is I was away
from my AF the entire time.

When I got back home, I looked for some AF after Christmas sales on
eBay and was floored to see:

Rare American Flyer S Gauge #728 Rerailer
Item # 3101767529
Final Sales Price: $76.75

Weren't rerailers going for about $25 just last week? Have all Flyer
prices tripled in the last week??? If so, I'm about to list all my
American Flyer and retire early!!!!!!!

BG1
Group: S-Trains Message: 22624 From: mlmarmer Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Re: Stock yard cattle
Jim,

Go back to November, 1999, as my wife was in screams of laughter when
checking email, that week, around November 17, and all the talk about the
cows, as the emails, help relieve her stress as I was recovering from a 3rd
back surgery from that day! The way you all described getting the cows to go
up the ramps and everything, was really funny stuff. And what happens to
the cows after they get their destination! Steaks! We remember those
emails about the cows very well, since what was going in our lives at that
time and those emails helped us allot.

By the way, the trains are half hers, as she loves York and other train
shows.

We when up to Ellicott City today, near Baltimore to see the "Garden"
layouts in O , ugh, gauge, in the train station, now museum.

Having dinner tonight at Chic-Fil A, where no cows where harmed.

Hope everyone had a great Christmas,

Mike Marmer
Germantown, MD
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Hannawald" <jhannawa@...>
To: "S-Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 9:19 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Stock yard cattle


> I just acquired a stock yard and the cattle are in need of some new feet.
I think this has been discussed in the past but I can't locate any of the
old messages.
>
> What is being used to replace the worn out material on the bottom to the
cattle? Is there a source of this material or what is a good substitute??
>
>
> Jim
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22625 From: mlmarmer Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Re: Rare American Flyer S Gauge #728 Rerailer ??????????????
It is the box! LOL!

Not getting involved with this one again!

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: <bull_gator_1@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 9:25 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Rare American Flyer S Gauge #728 Rerailer ??????????????


> Hello Group,
>
> I've just returned from spending Christmas in Florida. The good news
> is I was away from work the entire time. The bad news is I was away
> from my AF the entire time.
>
> When I got back home, I looked for some AF after Christmas sales on
> eBay and was floored to see:
>
> Rare American Flyer S Gauge #728 Rerailer
> Item # 3101767529
> Final Sales Price: $76.75
>
> Weren't rerailers going for about $25 just last week? Have all Flyer
> prices tripled in the last week??? If so, I'm about to list all my
> American Flyer and retire early!!!!!!!
>
> BG1
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22626 From: boss31@aol.com Date: 12/28/2002
Subject: Can motor for diesels project
Hi everybody,
Just a reminder that the can motor replacement program for Gilbert diesels is
about to begin. We start accepting locos for conversion as of Jan. 2, 2003.
Here is the schedule of charges again for those of you that may have missed
it.

> There will be NO modifications to your locos. We will return all the
> original parts (reverse unit, armature, field) to you. If you don't want
> them back, we will make you a swap deal for them.
>
> It is necessary to replace the reverse unit with a Dallee #400 electronic
> reverse unit. You're going to love them.
>
> All options are the installed price.
> The options are as follows:
> 1.  Single motor Geep or Alco ..................................$109.95
> 2.  Dual motor
> Alco...................................................$149.95. 
3. Chassis rebushing...............................................$19.95
per trk
> 4. Directional LED headlights.................................$14.95 per
> pair
> 5. Replacement pullmor wheels...(tentative)..........$19.95 per pair
>
> Any axle gears that need replacing will be included in the rebushing price
> but you will pay the cost of the gear.
>
> You will be responsible for shipping both ways.


> Also a reminder that we still have a few copies of "S-Gauge Model
> Railroading" VOL. VI remaining, and the "set" (Vol.'s 1-5) are still
> available for $60. These are ones that did not sell at S-West.
>
> Any questions, call 208-376-1159 or write to us here at Boss31@...
>
> Dealer inquiries welcomed.
>
> Thanks.....Steve & Sam......S-'n-S Trains....Boise, Idaho
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22627 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: 316 4-6-2 Pacific
Hi Guys,
Is the #316 4-6-2 a K5? Did it come with Knuckle couplers?
ALSO Did they come with a speaker in the tender? Thanks in Advance, Mike
PS: Thanks to all that answered the 342- 343 PM question


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22628 From: waldootten Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: On "rare" rerailers -- and a few other things.....
>I looked for some AF after Christmas sales on eBay and was floored
to see: >
> Rare American Flyer S Gauge #728 Rerailer
> Item # 3101767529
> Final Sales Price: $76.75
>
> Weren't rerailers going for about $25 just last week? Have all
Flyer prices tripled in the last week??? If so, I'm about to list
all my American Flyer and retire early!!!!!!!

__________________________________________________________

And that auction's still not closed yet... do I hear $80, $90...
who'll make it one hundred???

I saw the same thing tonight and could not believe my eyes. Silly,
ain't it? Hope everything is on the up-and-up with that auction. ;-)

I picked up the same rerailer about eight months ago NOS w/OB for
about $32.00. Also on eBay.

While on the online auction topic, someone's selling a "rare 302"
set over there, too. Wow!

Seriously, like it or not, eBay is providing a valuable service to S-
gauge, in a backhanded sort of way. People with no other opportunity
for exposure can get quite an education on S-gauge by simply
observing the auctions -- remember, it costs nothing to look and no
one is forcing you to buy. I learned an awful lot about the values
and availablity of American Flyer by visiting there frequently over
the last 18 months. Some people outside of metro areas get virtually
no exposure to train sales except for places like eBay.

It also showed me that the "authoratative" AF price guides can be
way off -- the one by TM Books is closer to reality than
Greenberg's -- but it's high time TM gets updated. I think the last
issue was in 2000. Things have changed a lot since then.

Living in the Chicago area, we're lucky to have a monthly GATS show
at the DuPage County Fairgrounds. It's about 85% full of that three-
rail stuff, but most weekends there is a reasonable selection of
Flyer available from guys like Mike Farner and John Heck.

We also have a local Midwest TCA meet once a month, but there isn't
a lot of Flyer stuff -- at the one earlier this month, I found a few
cars here and there but only one set for sale. Of course, I bought
it for myself for Christmas. ;-)

But the GATS show, the TCA meet and the recent Lionel Club Christmas
Train Show in the suburbs really packed 'em in. It was teriffic to
see so many KIDS there. K-I-D-S. I've read the prognostications for
the future of the toy train hobby by the so-called "experts" in a
couple of publications. All of them speak of an impending doom, that
the hobby has already peaked and once us older Boomers die off, the
hobby will die, too.

Well, far be it for me to ever express an opionion, but I think
those "experts" are full of themselves. This isn't Wall Street. It's
kids. My guess is that today's kids will eventually get bored with
their video games (how far -- technically - can they keep going?)
and look for something else -- something more hands-on, something
more real, something they can hear and smell and touch and feel the
heat. Toy trains!

I did an informal survey of six or seven hobby shops in the area
before Christmas, and all of them said they had either completely
sold out of train sets -- or were close. Yes, maybe they didn't
order as many due to the economy, but isn't it just as possible that
the "kids pendulum" is starting to swing the other direction? The
downfall of Gilbert and Lionel in the early 1960s has been widely
blamed on the emergence of television, then a brand new distraction
for boys who once ran their trains in the evening. Don't be shocked
if the heavy activity at train shows and hobby shops this Christmas
signals the beginning of a resurgence of interest in the hobby.
Don't expect it to happen overnight, but I think it is incumbent on
all of us to do whatever we can to expidite the "swing."

As an aside, I have over 80 cable channels and I can't tell you how
many times I can't find one program I'm interested in watching. Kids
are no different.

It would also be nice if the government -- which heavily subsidizes
roads and airports -- would give a financial boost to train travel
in this country. America was built by The Big Iron, yet the owners
of railroads are left to fend for themselves. If the romance of long
distance train travel could make a bit of a comeback, think of the
ripple effect on our hobby.

Finally, I'd like to pass along a big "attaboy" to Doug Peck for
selling his repro rerailer at a fair price. I also ran into Dave
Garrigues at the Midwest TCA meet and bought a bunch of his Link-
Coupler Hold-Together Plastic Clips. I think they were 10 for $1.50
(I bought 40) and he didn't charge me for shipping. They're black,
and really hard to see unless you know what you're looking for.

Sorry for rambling, but I drank a whole pot o'coffee tonight and
couldn't fall asleep. Plus, I usually get paid by the word. ;-)

Cheers,

Phil
Group: S-Trains Message: 22629 From: waldootten Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Sorry...
"Authoratative" and "expidite."

Sorry, bad fingers. Late hour.

Beleive it or not, I can spel gude. ;-)

Phil K
Group: S-Trains Message: 22630 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: Re; What did'ya get?
Amazon Books also sells it.
Charles Ditlefsen's Those Magnificent Trains Daily
2003
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0768357764/paulyorkeA/

--- "David A. Highfield" <davidh@...> wrote:
> In addition to the Souter book, I also received
> Charles Ditlefsen's "Those
> Magnificent Trains" block calendar for 2003.
> There's a different color
> picture of various engines for each day.
> January 1 - C&O E unit #4026, 1961.
> January 7 - Pennsy K4 #612 steam, 1957.
> February 24 - UP #9000, 4-12-2, 1956.
> And so forth!
> It comes from the Cedco Publishing Co., 100 Pelican
> Way, San Rafael, CA
> 94901. www.cedo.com.
> My son stumbled across this calendar in a D.C. area
> bookstore. A year-long
> delight for $12.99.
> Dave
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories
> too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22631 From: David Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: 316 4-6-2 Pacific
Yes Mike, the 316 was a K5 and had all of the features available. Pul-
Mor, Light, 4 Pos reverse, KC, horn, and lighted smoke.

--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, anormal1@a... wrote:
> Hi Guys,
> Is the #316 4-6-2 a K5? Did it come with Knuckle
couplers?
> ALSO Did they come with a speaker in the tender? Thanks in Advance,
Mike
> PS: Thanks to all that answered the 342- 343 PM question
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22632 From: Doug Peck Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: ReRailers
Regarding the original rerailer on Ebay for >$75....that one floored me as
well! Wow!

I also want to thank Keith for his comments about the repro rerailer
availability, making all of you aware of it. Several have sold on EBAY
already, in just the first 24 hours! You'll still find them listed on EBAY,
or you can contact me direct. I have plenty of them, at the same price
($17.95).
I CANNOT guarantee that the price will hold in the future.....but I
certainly expect it to remain under $20.
They're very nice reproductions, and I think you'll like them!

And...until SHS comes out with their own version....I see no reason that one
of these cannot be used with the SHS S-Trax system as well. All you need are
the S-Trax/AF Conversion pins, which I can also supply you!

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours - Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays: 2-5 PM (EST), and 7-9 PM.
Saturdays: 2-5 PM.
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please.)
Website: www.portlines.com
E-mail: doug@...
VISA--MASTERCARD--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22633 From: John M McAlonan Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1693
BTW, the author states that the Royal Blue was
"aguably American Flyer's...best-looking locomotive"
followed by the 370 GM GP-7. I disagree and believe
that the Alco PAs were arguably the best looking
locomotives (especially the Santa Fes) followed by the
B6b 0-6-0 PRR switcher with slope-back tender. What
do you guys think?

Joe

_________________________________________________


A Smokin', chuffin' 332 with a full consist of heavyweight pullmans in tow!!
Mac
Group: S-Trains Message: 22634 From: rbubeck327@aol.com Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: On "rare" rerailers -- and a few other things.....
<< It also showed me that the "authoratative" AF price guides can be
way off -- the one by TM Books is closer to reality than
Greenberg's -- but it's high time TM gets updated.>>

This has been mentioned before, but an updated version of the TM AF Guide does exist in Traintracker 5.0, the inventory program. Many prices were updated and some interesting variations were added this past fall. Hope this helps in the near term.

Bob Bubeck
Group: S-Trains Message: 22635 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: Rare American Flyer S Gauge #728 Rerailer ??????????????
***((( Rare American Flyer S Gauge #728 Rerailer
> Item # 3101767529
> Final Sales Price: $76.75
>Weren't rerailers going for about $25 just last week? Have all Flyer
> prices tripled in the last week??? If so, I'm about to list all my
> American Flyer and retire early!!!!!!!)))***

About a year ago, probably more,...they were going for around $50 on ebay. I sold one,..it didn't quite reach $30!! And mine was new old stock!! Box and all!!

Rick.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22636 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1693
My vote is for the 0-8-0 switcher....At least we know the position of the
Casey jones!!!! Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "John M McAlonan" <macflyer@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 11:31 AM
Subject: RE: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1693


>
> BTW, the author states that the Royal Blue was
> "aguably American Flyer's...best-looking locomotive"
> followed by the 370 GM GP-7. I disagree and believe
> that the Alco PAs were arguably the best looking
> locomotives (especially the Santa Fes) followed by the
> B6b 0-6-0 PRR switcher with slope-back tender. What
> do you guys think?
>
> Joe
>
> _________________________________________________
>
>
> A Smokin', chuffin' 332 with a full consist of heavyweight pullmans in
tow!!
> Mac
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22637 From: Chuck Harrington Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: Best Loco Vote
I vote for the 0-8-0 switcher as well!

robert allen conner wrote:

>My vote is for the 0-8-0 switcher....At least we know the position of the
>Casey jones!!!! Bob
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22638 From: rj4010d Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: layouts
My brother-in-law received an S Helper set for Christmas. Please
list best sites for 4x8 layouts. Thanks in advance
Group: S-Trains Message: 22639 From: Don Thompson Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: layouts
Dear RJ,
Please send us your brothers snail address and I will send a free
2001 SHS catalog that has several 4 X 8 layouts diagrammed.
Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.

rj4010d wrote:

>My brother-in-law received an S Helper set for Christmas. Please
>list best sites for 4x8 layouts. Thanks in advance
>
>
>
>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
>All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22640 From: John L. Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: GATS SHOWS SCHEDULE & LOCATIONS
Does any one have the 2003 GATS show schedules and locations - or how to
find out where and when they are? I had the opportunity of going to one
near Seattle in November, and enjoyed it very much, and was impressed to
see the support given to O gauge and the small emphasis given to HOHO
gauge. S gauge was supported too by a few dealers - way better than
anything Id seen in Canada. Im particularly interested in any show there
may be around the Great Lakes area.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22641 From: eric.reis Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: GATS SHOWS SCHEDULE & LOCATIONS
WWW.gats.com will get you to their schedule. Portland in February 15/16,
Seattle in March 15/16 (i think in the new Stadium Expo center, Salem, Ore.
in mar 29/30, Spokane in June 28/29.

There is a monthly one in Chicago area.

Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa.

-----Original Message-----
From: John L. [mailto:larry.asp@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 11:37 AM
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [S-Trains] GATS SHOWS SCHEDULE & LOCATIONS


Does any one have the 2003 GATS show schedules and locations - or how to
find out where and when they are? I had the opportunity of going to one
near Seattle in November, and enjoyed it very much, and was impressed to
see the support given to O gauge and the small emphasis given to HOHO
gauge. S gauge was supported too by a few dealers - way better than
anything Id seen in Canada. Im particularly interested in any show there
may be around the Great Lakes area.


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Group: S-Trains Message: 22642 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Train Shows.....
I would like to comment about Train Shows....Having gone to Hundreds since
1982...And having put on shows myself back in the 80's ( Was A good way to
make money )...I find that shows like the GATS, Greenburg, York, TCA Shows,
Etc. all have some stuff...But when I go there I really don't expect to find
much and I rarely do!!!!...However just about every time I find A lot of
good stuff it is at one of the small Shows....This is where the people seem
to come out of the "Hills or woodwork as some would say"...Tables are
cheap...10 - 20 instead of 50 - 75....Like at Daytona about 3 years
ago...499 in the box...200...Cattle loader in the box 75...spent 800.00
before I left him...Ocala...out of 5 or 6 visits I have spent anywhere from
700 - 1000 at these shows....The last show produced an 342 dc...nice for 300
( no dc on cab)...I remember passing A 21084 and 21085 for 100 for both not
too long ago....was grabbing to much other stuff from the guy....Nice 970 in
ob - 30 cars 5-8 etc....Besides another guy had offered me all his flyer at
1/2 off earlier.....To sum it all up....If you are looking for good
deals...FIND AND TRY THE SMALL SHOWS !!! Get and look at the model
railroader or railroad model craftsman mags for show schedules...You just
never know what will turn up where...Hit A real good pile of Lionel, and
bought all at A GUN SHOW once...I bet most of the other guys have the same
experience too....Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "John L." <larry.asp@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 2:36 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] GATS SHOWS SCHEDULE & LOCATIONS


> Does any one have the 2003 GATS show schedules and locations - or how to
> find out where and when they are? I had the opportunity of going to one
> near Seattle in November, and enjoyed it very much, and was impressed to
> see the support given to O gauge and the small emphasis given to HOHO
> gauge. S gauge was supported too by a few dealers - way better than
> anything Id seen in Canada. Im particularly interested in any show there
> may be around the Great Lakes area.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22643 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: New poll for S-Trains
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
S-Trains group:

What do you think was Gilbert/Flyer's
best looking DIESEL locomotive?

o UP PA
o Comet PAs
o Silver Streak PA
o Santa Fe PA
o Silver Flash PA
o Northern Pacific PA
o NH PA
o New Haven - Electric GE (499)
o Chicago North Western Baldwin Switcher
o Seaboard Baldwin Switcher
o T & P Baldwin Switcher
o M-StL Baldwin Switcher
o GM GP-7
o T & P GP-7
o other


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/surveys?id=1018854

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22644 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: New poll for S-Trains
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
S-Trains group:

What do you think is the best looking
STEAM locomotive Gilbert/Flyer ever made?

o Atlantic
o 312 Pacific
o 32X Hudsons
o 33X Northerns
o 0-8-0 Switchers
o Royal Blue
o Circus Loco
o Silver Bullet
o 0-6-0 Switcher (21004)
o 0-6-0 Docksider


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/surveys?id=1018858

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22645 From: Roy Inman Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Best looking
I guess I am about the only guy who thought the boxy look of the Alco PAs
was, well, boxy-looking, as in not very attractive.
But the unique livery and pop culture aspect of the Silver Flash overcame
the not so streamlined looks of the Alco.
The Northern 4-8-4 ain't bad.
Cheers :)
Roy Inman


BTW, the author states that the Royal Blue was
"arguably American Flyer's...best-looking locomotive"
followed by the 370 GM GP-7. I disagree and believe
that the Alco PAs were arguably the best looking
locomotives (especially the Santa Fes) followed by the
B6b 0-6-0 PRR switcher with slope-back tender. What
do you guys think?

Joe
Group: S-Trains Message: 22646 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
Here we go Again...I don't exist!!!!! Bob

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/surveys?id=1018854
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22647 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: Train Shows.....
Hi,

I couldn't agree with you more about small train shows - that's where you find the gems fresh out of the attic. However, any given train show... That's why I think it's a great hobby to go to them all (within reasonable driving distance). You just never know what you will find and where. That's the fun of it!

Train shows are fun!
Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: robert allen conner
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com ; John L.
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 3:11 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Train Shows.....


I would like to comment about Train Shows....Having gone to Hundreds since
1982...And having put on shows myself back in the 80's ( Was A good way to
make money )...I find that shows like the GATS, Greenburg, York, TCA Shows,
Etc. all have some stuff...But when I go there I really don't expect to find
much and I rarely do!!!!...However just about every time I find A lot of
good stuff it is at one of the small Shows....This is where the people seem
to come out of the "Hills or woodwork as some would say"...Tables are
cheap...10 - 20 instead of 50 - 75....Like at Daytona about 3 years
ago...499 in the box...200...Cattle loader in the box 75...spent 800.00
before I left him...Ocala...out of 5 or 6 visits I have spent anywhere from
700 - 1000 at these shows....The last show produced an 342 dc...nice for 300
( no dc on cab)...I remember passing A 21084 and 21085 for 100 for both not
too long ago....was grabbing to much other stuff from the guy....Nice 970 in
ob - 30 cars 5-8 etc....Besides another guy had offered me all his flyer at
1/2 off earlier.....To sum it all up....If you are looking for good
deals...FIND AND TRY THE SMALL SHOWS !!! Get and look at the model
railroader or railroad model craftsman mags for show schedules...You just
never know what will turn up where...Hit A real good pile of Lionel, and
bought all at A GUN SHOW once...I bet most of the other guys have the same
experience too....Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "John L." <larry.asp@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 2:36 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] GATS SHOWS SCHEDULE & LOCATIONS


> Does any one have the 2003 GATS show schedules and locations - or how to
> find out where and when they are? I had the opportunity of going to one
> near Seattle in November, and enjoyed it very much, and was impressed to
> see the support given to O gauge and the small emphasis given to HOHO
> gauge. S gauge was supported too by a few dealers - way better than
> anything Id seen in Canada. Im particularly interested in any show there
> may be around the Great Lakes area.
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22648 From: trzp1800 Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
Hey!

Ya left off the Rocket AA!



--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> S-Trains group:
>
> What do you think was Gilbert/Flyer's
> best looking DIESEL locomotive?
>
> o UP PA
> o Comet PAs
> o Silver Streak PA
> o Santa Fe PA
> o Silver Flash PA
> o Northern Pacific PA
> o NH PA
> o New Haven - Electric GE (499)
> o Chicago North Western Baldwin Switcher
> o Seaboard Baldwin Switcher
> o T & P Baldwin Switcher
> o M-StL Baldwin Switcher
> o GM GP-7
> o T & P GP-7
> o other
>
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/surveys?id=1018854
>
> Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
> web site listed above.
>
> Thanks!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22649 From: anormal1@aol.com Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: YAHOO SIGN IN
I give up I tried for 30 min to sign in New ID & Code no good. Mike S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22650 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: YAHOO SIGN IN
Don't feel too bad. I gave up signing in a loooooong time ago.

Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: anormal1@...
To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 4:33 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] YAHOO SIGN IN


I give up I tried for 30 min to sign in New ID & Code no good. Mike S


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!

To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22651 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
I restarted the survey with Rocket PA
--- "trzp1800 <trzp1800@...>"
<trzp1800@...> wrote:
> Hey!
>
> Ya left off the Rocket AA!
>
>
>
> --- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com,
> S-Trains@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> >
> > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been
> created for the
> > S-Trains group:
> >
> > What do you think was Gilbert/Flyer's
> > best looking DIESEL locomotive?
> >
> > o UP PA
> > o Comet PAs
> > o Silver Streak PA
> > o Santa Fe PA
> > o Silver Flash PA
> > o Northern Pacific PA
> > o NH PA
> > o New Haven - Electric GE (499)
> > o Chicago North Western Baldwin Switcher
> > o Seaboard Baldwin Switcher
> > o T & P Baldwin Switcher
> > o M-StL Baldwin Switcher
> > o GM GP-7
> > o T & P GP-7
> > o other
> >
> >
> > To vote, please visit the following web page:
> >
> >
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/surveys?id=1018854
>
> >
> > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll
> votes are
> > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to
> the Yahoo! Groups
> > web site listed above.
> >
> > Thanks!
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor:
> http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories
> too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
> s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 22652 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Book
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2151419244&ssPageName=ADME:B:RECO:US:2

Perhaps a CZ fan would like to get this.

jfred



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22653 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Tonight's chat
It so far looks like Paul is not getting notices out, so just in case someone needs it I copied this from his letter back on the 15th:

http://S-Scale.org/forum/ <--chat room

jfred



---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22654 From: David Dewey Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: layouts
Neat,
That's the kind of service old ACG provided!
Cool
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22655 From: David Dewey Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: Train Shows.....
Hey Bob, don't give out ALL the secrets!!! ;-)
S'
David "cheapskate" Dewey
Group: S-Trains Message: 22656 From: stanley Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
I think it's the 0-8-0 stan
----- Original Message -----
From: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 3:29 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] New poll for S-Trains


>
> Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> S-Trains group:
>
> What do you think is the best looking
> STEAM locomotive Gilbert/Flyer ever made?
>
> o Atlantic
> o 312 Pacific
> o 32X Hudsons
> o 33X Northerns
> o 0-8-0 Switchers
> o Royal Blue
> o Circus Loco
> o Silver Bullet
> o 0-6-0 Switcher (21004)
> o 0-6-0 Docksider
>
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/surveys?id=1018858
>
> Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
> web site listed above.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Group: S-Trains Message: 22657 From: Gerald R Dobbs Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1693
Best looking locomotive.
0-8-0 switcher only because it was my first 2 rail flyer I purchased.
back in "49". A 342 it didn't have pulmor, so I glued a strip of
neoprene .010 thickness to each wheel, worked fine over the years.

Jerry 77-11644

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22658 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Sunday Chat

Date: Sunday, December 29, 2002
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00)

This is our weekly chat session.
http://S-Scale.org/forum/
Note to AOL8 users, try using Internet Explorer as your browser.
8 PM EST
Group: S-Trains Message: 22659 From: Roger Hinds Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
Oh Dear ! How to vote on this? I think all of them are great.
AC Gilbert did a wonderful job on all the locos.

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 22660 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: NMRA SITE
While looking for 1894 bb guns....I found this site....WHAT IS THAT IN THE
BACKGROUND?...I thought nmra was all Ho....Bob

http://www.searchhippo.com/r3.php?i=9&q=%2Bdaisy+%2Bmodel+%2B1894+%2Bspitten
+%2Bimage.&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nmra.org%2F
Group: S-Trains Message: 22661 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: Train Shows.....
Dewey....U R Right....I engaged my fingers before I thought....Now I won't
find nothing...Bob
Group: S-Trains Message: 22662 From: John G Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: Train Shows.....
I found that another good source for trains is your cousin!

Thirty years ago I gave or loaned my rather mundane 283 steamer to my
cousin since I grew older and lost interest in trains. About 3 years
ago, I became interested in trains again. So I went to back to my
cousin to get my 283 back. He still had it, but it was in about 20
pieces - a complete basket case.

He then said, do you want to take these other engines with you that
he had as a kid. He then pulled out some original boxes which
revealed the three unit set of beautiful Sante Fe blue & yellow
diesels with the 21910 numbers from 1958. He then pulled out a 0-8-0
switcher numbered 21145.

The funny thing about this is that I had no clue these engines were
on the "high end" of desireable - so they sat in my basement for a
year or so. Eventually, I pulled out my cousin's engines and
repaired them back to running order and began to appreciate them for
what they are.

Gee, I hope my cousin doesn't get a wild hair and decide to get back
into model railroading again and request his engines back!

John Gasal


--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Brown" <Timboy@a...> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I couldn't agree with you more about small train shows - that's
where you find the gems fresh out of the attic. However, any given
train show... That's why I think it's a great hobby to go to them
all (within reasonable driving distance). You just never know what
you will find and where. That's the fun of it!
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22663 From: David Dewey Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Finding Trains- Cousins.
Wow John, so what car did you get with the engines? Oh to have such a
cousin! Well, actually, I sorta did; my "Scene-a Rama dept store special set
and my silver bullet came from one cousin, another cousin had the 312 1947
set, so I guess I can't be too jealous!
Group: S-Trains Message: 22664 From: jahoozdumm Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Re: NMRA SITE
Bob wrote:

>While looking for 1894 bb guns....I found this site....WHAT IS THAT
>IN THE BACKGROUND?...I thought nmra was all Ho....


If you mean the cover pic for the website, that's a shot down Gilbert
Blvd. on our C+D System Mountain Division (our Christmas layout.) The
loco is a Gilbert 302 Atlantic from 1948.

I had posted the pic in a Christmas layout thread on Railroad
Forums.com. Somebody from the NMRA (the webmaster, I think) saw the
pic there and asked me if it could be posted on their site for the
rest of the year. It's been there since 12/16.

The same pic (and several others) is posted in Paul York's S
scale.org site.



Chuck F.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22665 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 12/29/2002
Subject: Painting Article
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/On30conspiracy/files/DC-01painting.txt

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22666 From: JAMES SLEETH Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: long long ago.
Hi
I got a 300 Atlantic in 1948. My girl friends yuppy
family just bought over $500 in little wooden trains.
She would not let me show him mine, because it might
ruined his X mass. So he will play with them for one
year. We have played with ours for 50 years.

I think trains will die off. If Lionel can't get in
toy stores how can any one else. So we have $29 Light
Brights and little wooden trains!!!
Jim Sleeth

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22667 From: rkuepper Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Accessory Labels
A while back, someone posted a link to a site that had labels or stickers to cover the "L" word when using their accessories (the magnetic crane was one) with AF. I thought I had bookmarked it, but did not. I believe it was an individual rather than a train/decal shop. Anyone have the site?

Thanks, and have a safe and Happy New Year!

Dick


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22668 From: AF336 Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Re: Accessory Labels
http://rapidrail.homestead.com/cranesign.html


----- Original Message -----
From: "rkuepper" <rkuepper@...>
To: "S-Trains" <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 6:07 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Accessory Labels


> A while back, someone posted a link to a site that had labels or stickers
to cover the "L" word when using their accessories (the magnetic crane was
one) with AF. I thought I had bookmarked it, but did not. I believe it was
an individual rather than a train/decal shop. Anyone have the site?
>
> Thanks, and have a safe and Happy New Year!
>
> Dick
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22669 From: John L. Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Train Shows
Thanks to everyone who responded about the GATS shows and other shows. I
have a couple of other questions about train shows -

1. Since I live about 1.5 hours from Buffalo New York (Guelh Ontario) -
are there any shows (or flea markets) in the Buffalo area.

2. Has anyone or clubs started a web site where train shows / flea
markets are listed? I know a ham radio group in southern ontario has one
for area ham fests and its great - gives the dates and times and links
to web sites for addresses etc.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22670 From: keith kuzma Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: rerailer track
Doug responded this morning.Rails are either replated
used,or new stock.Keith

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22671 From: dicklong14052 Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Rare rerailer?
I think people on E-bay overuse the word "rare". Maybe the rerailer
that I posted photos of in the Photo section would qualify as rare.
I bought it years ago from a Gilbert factory
employee that worked in the plastic molding dept.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22672 From: MARVD6848@aol.com Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: yuppie servivle
ok so if you have to deal with the yuppies then accept there rules if you
cant then you will need to find a s gauge girl freind that is compatable with
2 rail of your liking
good luck ps you can also take
the alternate rout and
do your part to convert show him that the s gauge is for the serious minded
opperator
Group: S-Trains Message: 22673 From: G C Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Long Long Time Ago
Jim and S Friends,

Lionel or AF, in the end does it really matter? Some people like steak, some like pork chops. What does matter is that we have fun and contribute to the well being of the hobby in genera?.

My wife and I like to go to the movies, but our taste doesn't always run with that of the pack. We will call a movie establisment only to find that what was advertised has indeed been pulled because it had no draw. I use this analogy to explain the state of of both O and S, but S particular. Stuff just doesn't get on the shelf at many hobby shops. Why? because the shop owners are afarid they will have to just keep it on the shelf.

I went to one rather large model railroad store in the Wilmington, DE area. They had advertised that their inventory included S. My wife and I took a day trip from where we live just north of Towson MD, only to find that when I asked where the S stuff was I was greeted with a blank expression. The guy behind the counter finally responded when I pressed a little to say that Oh Yea, we have some track over there. Well, I went over to the proverbial "there", but didn't find a thing. Another hobby shop/train store called S "the dinosaur" So there you go!

I love S because I find it to be the perfect size for my hands, my eyes, and even for the space that I have. Also, I love railroad history and enjoy scratchbuilding and kit mangling a grat deal. Roy Hoffman was kind enough to allow me to visit his wonderful layout. Roy, as well as others, has certainly done a great job.

I also see a definite lack on the part of the major model railroad mags to include articles on S in their fare. True, this may reflect in some cases a lack on the part of we in the hobby to submit material for publication.

In the meantime, what we CAN DO is support our interests by example. By that I mean attend shows where S is featured, join groups like NASG, and support the small buisness providers of S items. At the least, this will keep S at a status quo. May be, we will never be a major player as it were of the habby, but we sure can have fun with what we do. I know that I am.

Sorry, if the length of this doesn't fit the mainstream of postsor the general order of things, but then again, I never do many things in a usual or "run with the pack" sort of way. Think about it, I'm in "S".

Thanks,

Gene Cimino (Hydes, MD)



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22674 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Re: Train Shows
I have A site which I hope to have running by summer...It's called
HOBBYANDTRADESHOWS.COM, or.org, or .net...I am presently trying to get the
site set up...If anyone knows of someone who does this...let me know...I
already have all the address .com, etc. and the Corporation is being set up
in January....What I want to list is shows of all types, locations, etc...I
plan to have it set so you can enter in "where you will be and when" and it
will tell you whats up...or you can select A list of just shows in an
area...to plan on dates....About A yaer ago I was in Richmond....After
coming back to Fla....I found out I was within 3 miles of A nice TCA meet
while I was there...keep an eye open for mor details as they develope...Bob
Conner
----- Original Message -----
From: "John L." <larry.asp@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 9:35 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Train Shows


> Thanks to everyone who responded about the GATS shows and other shows. I
> have a couple of other questions about train shows -
>
> 1. Since I live about 1.5 hours from Buffalo New York (Guelh Ontario) -
> are there any shows (or flea markets) in the Buffalo area.
>
> 2. Has anyone or clubs started a web site where train shows / flea
> markets are listed? I know a ham radio group in southern ontario has one
> for area ham fests and its great - gives the dates and times and links
> to web sites for addresses etc.
>
>
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22675 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Re: Fw: Q & A Feb 2003 Issue
Glad to see that others realize what CTT is all about. Also gave up
on them years ago. Everyone on list should send them an email!!!John
B.


--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "David Dewey" <djdewey@c...> wrote:
> This from the mag that paid me (rather well too) for an AF article,
and then
> NEVER printed it! I think we should flood them with similar emails!
Maybe
> they'd realize we DO EXIST!
> I gave up the mag years ago too.
> S'
> David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22676 From: keith kuzma Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: RE-RAILER
I got my re-railer today.Looks great,works great! A+
Doug! Keith

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22677 From: John Brockmann Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] Re: Best looking locomotive
Yessir! The 312 and 354 Silver Bullet pulling 355 passenger cars are
my favorites cause they were my first trains! Got x-mas and birthday
present for the next two years earlier this year: Original Gabe and
21155 with smoke. John B.

--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, rbubeck327@a... wrote:
> The 1946 PRR K5 No. 312 with "Pennsylvania" on the tender and with
the smoke box front in the correct position before its boiler was
lengthened to accommodate SIB -- classic Pennsy through and through.
The '46 322 NYC J3a Hudson is a close second two for me.
>
> (BTW, the '46 versions of all the vintage Gilbert steamers are to
be preferred because they have a correct roadname painted on their
tenders. The porportions of the K5, the USRA 0-8-0, and the Atlantic
were lengthened and spoiled a wee bit with the advent of SIB in 1948).
>
> RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 22678 From: ctbigboy Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Classic Trains
Added American "S" Gauge Track to website: www.classictrains.com
Will be posting original American Flyer, Lionel LTI, American Models,
and S-Helper Service over the next month in the S-Gauge section.

Happy Holidays & Happy New Year to all

Nick Mescher
Classic Trains
American "S" Gauge
Group: S-Trains Message: 22679 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Re: Choo choo problem?
Hi and welcome aboard!

The chugging sound your refer to is actually more like a chuffing sound to simulate the choo-choo sound a real steamer makes. It is created in the smoke unit by the same hole that allows the air to be pushed passed the heated element wrapped around the wick saturated with smoke fluid in the smoke box. A piston (inside a cylinder) on a geared cam is what makes the air flow. If you are getting good smoke, then it's probably working. The smoke should puff out - slowly at slow speeds and faster at higher speeds; same with the chuffing sound. If the smoke is just lazily wafting out rather than being blown out, then it's possible the hole in the smoke cylinder is clogged or the piston is disengaged from the cam. You'd have to take the loco shell off to get to the smoke unit to clean or repair it. An Atlantic is very easy to work on and dare I say the whole process is intuitive?

Another group you can join is the S-list, an online bulletin board with about 600 members whose knowledge base ranges from beginner to expert. Here's a link to join up:
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Good luck!
Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: americanflyer302
To: rfgamericanflyer@...
Cc: americanflyer302
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 3:36 PM
Subject: Choo choo problem?


Hello, my name is Chris Simmonds. I am new to American Flyer trains and am very excited about this hobby. I purchased an old 302 atlantic and it smokes like a charm but doesnt seem to make any chugging noise. Is there a way to test or repair this? Does anyone have a sound file of the chugging unit so I can hear what it sounds like? Thanks in advance.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22680 From: Mark Kiner Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: 20 Mule team borax
Well I got a little tired of watching the trains go around the tree and opened up the project box.

About this time last year I bought a slow speed SnS can motor conversion, and yesterday I stuffed it in a 343 I bought off ebay a couple of years ago w/o a motor or reverse unit. It is a really clean looking unit, just minus the guts.

The installation went smooth, but the back of the motor case does rub pretty solidly against the drawbar crossmember. This unit runs VERY slow. The speed is really below what I can get either my rev. boiler 343 or my 342 to run without stalling; but all hooked together at slow speeds they are a near perfect match at this slow speed. You can see slack both ways in all of the couplers at very regular intervals.

Well I got such a kick at seeing this go around the loop very predictably at speeds where the conventional AF a/c motors would stall that I hooked up my NASG and S-helper 20 mule team borax hoppers and if my son didn't have the digital camera borrowed you would be looking at pictures off a different kind of "mule team" hauling borax out of death valley.


Still grinnin'

MK

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22681 From: marpack57@aol.com Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: looking
Would like to purchase the Mt. St. Helens hopper put out many years ago.
Anyone?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22682 From: colleenandrob Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Question about AF 283
Hello,

I recently purchased a "cast metal" AF 283. It has not arrived yet.
I've been told that they only came in plastic. Does anyone know if
the 283 ever was producded in metal? Also does every 283 have smoke
and choo choo? The man I purchased the engine from has no way to test
it. I believe they do but just need confirmation. Any help greatly
appreciated.

Thanks,

Rob
Group: S-Trains Message: 22683 From: robert allen conner Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Re: looking
with or without trucks...mine doesn't have trucks...bob
----- Original Message -----
From: <marpack57@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 9:26 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] looking


> Would like to purchase the Mt. St. Helens hopper put out many years ago.
> Anyone?
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com
> All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too!
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to
s-trains-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 22684 From: G C Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: The Stars Behind The Counter
Tom and Dave:

Yeppers, You were correct re: the M word. It looked like a wonderful store, IF YOU COULD FIND WHAT THE HECK YOU WERE LOOKING FOR. Well, anyway thanks for the response. This looks like a fun group to be in.

Gene



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22685 From: Bill Porter Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Reference Request
Hi Folks,

Please bear with me as I ask about AC Gilbert, American Flyer trains that
are not quite up to our normal size. I recently received a stack of Classic
Toy Trains magazines from a few years ago. (Curiously, there are numerous
articles on American Flyer S and other gauges - post war and other eras. It
seems like pretty good coverage when I review several years in just a few
sittings.) In the December 1999 issue, there is an article on a Flyer
collector. In his collection are a pair of HO scale Americans. One is
painted just like my Franklin. I have not seen nor heard of these little
things, before.

Is there any reference material on American Flyer HO stuff?

Happy New Year,

Bill Porter
15212 79th Court N
Loxahatchee, FL 33470

wpporter@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 22686 From: Gary Chidester Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Finally getting close!
I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and it could be a train!

I was hoping I could get some input, pros and cons, on different ways to
make a table to start a layout. I know there has been ideas passed around
on the list and I would hope that this wouldn't be a burden to have them
sent directly to me and not bother everyone. I thought I was a long way off
from doing this so I didn't save them, but now I have a room ready to start
the table and then the layout!

What would you do different if you were starting all over?

What did you do that worked as well as you had hoped?

Thanks for your help!

gary
Group: S-Trains Message: 22687 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Re: Reference Request
Hey Bill, there is a pretty good hardback book that came out a few years ago.
It has color and black/white pics. I will have to go out to my train
building and check for it and get back to you. I think the arthur's name
was Gary Klein but not real sure. Great reference book on Gilbert HO.

Harwood


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22688 From: HOwingsiii@aol.com Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Re: Question about AF 283
Rob, all the 283s I have ever seen came with both smoke/choo-choo. and were
painted semiflat black over black plastic. Maybe the seller thinks it's
metal because it is heavy and thick casting of plastic.

Harwood


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22689 From: jarcho@rcn.com Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: AF mail bag blues
How come mailbags for the AF mail pick up car (called the "Fwopping car" in
my family) were red, white, and green? What's up with that? Did the Post
Office classify mail in color coded classes back then? Is it something to
do with wartime mail? Or did one of the fine Italian-American craftsmen
who have peopled New Haven, CT from that day to this, feel like saluting
the old country?

Anyway, next time I order parts, I'm getting a green mailbag and painting
it BLUE. USPS blue, to be exact.

While I'm at it, maybe I should paint the cow in the "cow on the track"
accessory blue also, and name it Babe. it's big enough.

Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains Message: 22690 From: eric.reis Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Re: Reference Request
I have one of Gary's books and it is excellent.He may still have some. They
were about $45. He comes to the TCA division meets in Chehalis, Wa. and
trades flyer S and HO.

Gary Klein
P.O. Box 305
Eugene, Oregon. 97440

I have 2 emails for him, I am not sure which is newer.

gklein@...
Ggklein2@...


Eric Reis
Kenmore, Wa.

-----Original Message-----
From: HOwingsiii@... [mailto:HOwingsiii@...]
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 7:43 PM
To: wpporter@...; S-TRAINS@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Reference Request


Hey Bill, there is a pretty good hardback book that came out a few years
ago.
It has color and black/white pics. I will have to go out to my train
building and check for it and get back to you. I think the arthur's name
was Gary Klein but not real sure. Great reference book on Gilbert HO.

Harwood


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Group: S-Trains Message: 22691 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Re: Question about AF 283
Hi,

I had a 283 with a plastic shell. It did not have smoke or choo-choo.

Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: colleenandrob <colleenandrob@...>
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 9:46 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Question about AF 283



Hello,

I recently purchased a "cast metal" AF 283. It has not arrived yet.
I've been told that they only came in plastic. Does anyone know if
the 283 ever was producded in metal? Also does every 283 have smoke
and choo choo? The man I purchased the engine from has no way to test
it. I believe they do but just need confirmation. Any help greatly
appreciated.

Thanks,

Rob


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: S-Trains Message: 22692 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Re: Reference Request
Hi,

Lots of the Gilbert catalogs have a section devoted to the HO line. One of our members, Chuck Harrington, had uploaded quite a few Gilbert catalogs to his web site at:
http://www.myflyertrains.org/

Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Porter
To: s-trains List
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 10:13 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Reference Request


Hi Folks,

Please bear with me as I ask about AC Gilbert, American Flyer trains that
are not quite up to our normal size. I recently received a stack of Classic
Toy Trains magazines from a few years ago. (Curiously, there are numerous
articles on American Flyer S and other gauges - post war and other eras. It
seems like pretty good coverage when I review several years in just a few
sittings.) In the December 1999 issue, there is an article on a Flyer
collector. In his collection are a pair of HO scale Americans. One is
painted just like my Franklin. I have not seen nor heard of these little
things, before.

Is there any reference material on American Flyer HO stuff?

Happy New Year,

Bill Porter
15212 79th Court N
Loxahatchee, FL 33470

wpporter@...


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Group: S-Trains Message: 22693 From: Tim Brown Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Re: Layout suggestions
Hi,

I like using the old style HO switch controllers for my Flyer switches. They are three-wire, so I just drop the yellow wire from the switches down to a separate light circuit that I run from the variable post of a separate transformer set a little low to save on the bulbs. Actually, I run the black wire from the switches to the common rail wire, too. That just leaves the red and green leads to run from the HO switch controllers - and I do that with 14 gauge stranded wire from a separate transformer that delivers about 20 volts, so the switches really snap fast (but don't hold the button down for longer than an instant). The HO controllers have no lights to burn out and work perfectly every time - dirt cheap, too and don't take up much space. Plus, they can be ganged with only one "hot" wire to one of the controllers. The controllers don't need to be "grounded" as the black wire from the switches to the common rail wire suffices. It's about the only thing on my layout that isn't pure Flyer - but I figure a control panel is fair game. I believe Gilbert used some toggle switches on their panels.

Tim Brown
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Roche
To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 7:45 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Layout suggestions


Put together my first modular layout under and around the tree this year I had (4) 4 x 8 sheets 0f 1/2" plywood and ran 4 tracks as well as a bunch of accessories. Worked well but looking to improve for next year. The layout is up 6 weeks a year before the wife wants the living room back (we have no basements in Texas, and running trains in a non air conditioned garage during summer is not an option)
On the plywood I laid down felt cloth to simulate snow and nailed my flyer track down (mostly with roadbed)
Looking for some comments.
Ground covering- since this is put up around Christmas I want to stay with the Christmas theme. I would like something a bit more realistic than my felt cloth but I do need something durable as many areas need to be stepped on to assist errant trains.
Linking modules together-Track was secured in place except for a piece closest to each edge. I would butt modules together and then connect the two pieces of loose track (one on each module together) Any better ideas.
Controls- exclusively flyer push buttons. They worked fine, but any other ideas.
I appreciate any feedback. Steve Roche


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Group: S-Trains Message: 22694 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Mail Bags
Tom Jarcho wrote, How come mailbags for the AF mail pick up car were red, white, and green? What's up with that?

I think Gilbert did that so when the car dropped of a bag, as it picked one up, you could see that it was a different bag. Pick up a green, drop off a red. Next time, pick up a white, and drop the green. It aws clear you'd picked up the bag, not just knocked it off of the hook.

jfred



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Group: S-Trains Message: 22695 From: JFrederick Roberts Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Blue for mailbags?
I think the proper color for RPO mailbage would be brown, as in leather. Or, perhaps grey as in dirty canvas, but not blue. Remember, RPO cars ran back when mailboxes and Post Office trucks were painted "olive drab", using military surplus paint.

jfred



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Group: S-Trains Message: 22696 From: keith kuzma Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: blue mailbags ,daylight lti set
I did some in red,white and blue like the priority
boxes,but they got lost.I have a mint SP Daylight A-A
with 4 cars for sale or trade.Contact me off list if
you have an interest.Keith

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22697 From: David Dewey Date: 12/30/2002
Subject: Re: Question about AF 283
OK guys, quick lesson in ACG locomotive number system, three digit steam
locos. This is based on texts I have read and personal observations
In GENERAL (after all, there are always exceptions):
Last digit:
0=no smoke, no choo choo
1= Choo Choo only
2=smoke & Choo-Choo
3= Smoke & Choo Choo, Pullmor, KC
4=S&CC, not used often, believe original planned use was for the motorized
whistle unit
5=S&CC, early electronic whistle
6=S& CC, later "air chime" whistle, Pullmor, KC too
7=no smoke, no choo choo. Pullmor, KC too
Group: S-Trains Message: 22698 From: waldootten Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: Superb Flyer loco reference
I found this web page while surfing one night. It appears to be a
pretty complete reference regarding the attributes of American Flyer
locomotives. I have it bookmarked and use it quite often.

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/locospecs.html

Phil K

_________________________________________________________________


--- In S-Trains@yahoogroups.com, "colleenandrob
<colleenandrob@y...>" <colleenandrob@y...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I recently purchased a "cast metal" AF 283. It has not arrived
yet.
> I've been told that they only came in plastic. Does anyone know if
> the 283 ever was producded in metal? Also does every 283 have
smoke
> and choo choo? The man I purchased the engine from has no way to
test
> it. I believe they do but just need confirmation. Any help greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rob
Group: S-Trains Message: 22699 From: Doug Peck Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: Re: Refernce request (Gilbert HO)
Bill--
There are only two reference books available on Gilbert HO....one
hard-cover, and one soft-cover.
We stock the latter.
It lists all the Gilbert HO that was produced, including the usual
Greenberg-like information (it is NOT a Greenberg publication) such as
dates, variations, etc. Pictures are included, but not of every item.
Price-guide values are given, although the data is several years old. There
has been no revision since.
Despite being a few years old, it is still a decent reference, and it's only
$10.

<<<Is there any reference material on American Flyer HO stuff?>>>

Doug Peck
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Shop Hours - Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays: 2-5 PM (EST), and 7-9 PM.
Saturdays: 2-5 PM.
978-465-8798
1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please.)
Website: www.portlines.com
E-mail: doug@...
VISA--MASTERCARD--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted.
Group: S-Trains Message: 22700 From: Roger Hinds Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: 20 Mule team borax model
Speaking of the Borax 20 mule team. I have a model of the team wagons and all. I also have a matching poster. But the real good news is I think the model is very close to "S" gauge specs. Make a great background display (or foreground) for an old pioneer RR setting. I should work it into a Railroad diorama. :o)
Group: S-Trains Message: 22701 From: IronHorse Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: AC Gilbert
Someone recorded the movie with AC Gilbert "The Man Who Saved Christmas".
So I finaly got to see it.

A realy good movie. I can't find fault with the movie as some seem to
have.
The point of the movie is, Don't you mess with the kids Christmas. Not even
during bad times. Point well made.
What I want to get to is, how many of us see a little bit of ourselves in
AC Gilbert.
I am a person that built a museum around his toys. I don't make much money
at it,
but I enjoy seeing peoples eyes light up at my displays. I just wish I had
one of everything
for everyone to see. I don't remember seeing many of his products when I
was a kid.
Just a few train items in a hobby shop in the next town over.
Oh well, me and my dream. As long as I can make some kids
happy.............

Roger Hinds
Group: S-Trains Message: 22702 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: 282/283
Rob asks: Does anyone know if the 283 ever was produced in metal?
>>>

Rob, as David "Darth" Dewey says, there are always exceptions. My first locomotive bore the number "283" on the cab. Dad purchased it new in 1953 from a local hobby shop. However, it came with a converted knuckle coupler and had a sheet-metal tender, unlike the plastic tender everybody else's 283 has. The boiler was plastic.

Now that I understand the hobby and the practices of ACG, it was obviously a leftover 282 which had its original number removed in favor of the newer 283, and its link coupler changed over to the new knuckle during that transition year. The number had been rubber stamped, and was a serif type, not sans-serif as on the production 283. It had smoke and choo-choo, and, I'm pleased to say, it still runs like a champ. Actually, it has the sweetest choo-choo sound of all my AF steamers. That's one loco that will NEVER be sold, as we go back together nearly 50 years.

Happy New Year to all from the Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers!

YourS,
John Eichmann
Boise
Group: S-Trains Message: 22703 From: MARVD6848@aol.com Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: (no subject)
OK SO IF EVERY BODY HAS THERE TRAINS FIGURED OUT THEN TELL ME WHAT WAS AND
WHAT IS THE REASONING BEHIND THE NICKEL PLATING ON MY ENGINE. THAT WAS
PAINTED AND THE PAINT RECEIVED A BIT OF MOISTURE WHILE IN STORAGE. Causing
THE PAINT TO FLAKE OFF SO I TOOK ALL OF THE PARTS OF THE ENGINE AND THEN
CLEANED WITH MILD SOAP AND WARM WATER AND THE MORE I SCRUBBED THE MORE I GOT
A NICKEL PLATED ENGINE SO NOW IT IS a VERY CLEAN NICKEL PLATED 322 OR A 326
BUT NICKEL. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW ABOUT THIS MYSTERY !!!! YOUR HELP IS
APPRECIATED marv d


















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Group: S-Trains Message: 22704 From: Ron Inscho Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: Re: (no subject)
This sounds interesting, I have heard of some flyer engs. being plated as
they were to be used as a special presentation to someone like suppliers &
other contractors. Can you post a picture ?
----- Original Message -----
From: <MARVD6848@...>
To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 3:04 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] (no subject)


OK SO IF EVERY BODY HAS THERE TRAINS FIGURED OUT THEN TELL ME WHAT WAS AND
WHAT IS THE REASONING BEHIND THE NICKEL PLATING ON MY ENGINE. THAT WAS
PAINTED AND THE PAINT RECEIVED A BIT OF MOISTURE WHILE IN STORAGE. Causing
THE PAINT TO FLAKE OFF SO I TOOK ALL OF THE PARTS OF THE ENGINE AND THEN
CLEANED WITH MILD SOAP AND WARM WATER AND THE MORE I SCRUBBED THE MORE I GOT
A NICKEL PLATED ENGINE SO NOW IT IS a VERY CLEAN NICKEL PLATED 322 OR A
326
BUT NICKEL. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW ABOUT THIS MYSTERY !!!! YOUR HELP IS
APPRECIATED marv d


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Group: S-Trains Message: 22705 From: dfg30087 Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: Identification help
Hi,

I have two American Flyer Locomotives, fairly old. I acquired both at
the same time and do not know which locomotive goes with which
tender. Can anybody identify which tender goes which locomotive?
Pictures of these can be seen at:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Dale_Katinka/af.htm

Thanks for the help,

Dale
Group: S-Trains Message: 22706 From: David Dewey Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: Happy New Year
Happy New Year to all.
Going to a steam friend's house for the night, it's his b-day too. Might not
do anything with trains, but will see a new automobile steam engine (small
auto, like a 1900 Locomobile).
Wishing you all a safe New Years, and many more S trains!
S'
David Dewey
Group: S-Trains Message: 22707 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: More photos added tp S-Scale albums - Thanks guys
New Albums and Photos:
S Module Graphics see -- Corner Modules
http://s-scale.org/albums/view_album.php?set_albumName=album45

Steve Roche - Living room Christmas layout
http://s-scale.org/albums/view_album.php?set_albumName=album41

More images added to Turnout-Switch Album (we still
need need more)
http://s-scale.org/albums/view_album.php?set_albumName=album33

'Must See' pictures from BullGator
http://s-scale.org/albums/view_album.php?set_albumName=album27

Thomas Hawley's (just for fun) Trailer Train car
http://s-scale.org/albums/view_album.php?set_albumName=album44

S n S Trains (Steve & Sam) (including my recently
rebuilt 312s)
http://s-scale.org/albums/view_album.php?set_albumName=album32

If you have trouble with these links try.
http://s-scale.org/albums/

Hint: Each album tells when the last update was made,
so if you visit the site every once in a while you can
keep an eye out for updates.

Want a photo album for your pictures? Just let me
know.
Contact me 'off list'.


=====
Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com
Photography - Computers - Trains

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22708 From: Richard Alexander Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: switch specs needed
I am attaching my left-handed switch and would love it
if someone has the specs (instruction manual).
The markings are ...
American Flyer
MGG by The A.G. Gilbert Co.
New Haven, Conn U.S.A
It has a nob that says "2 Train oper" and " Reg oper".
It has 4 posts (green, yellow, red and black).
And a light unit.

Thanks


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Group: S-Trains Message: 22709 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: Blue "Babe"...
**(((While I'm at it, maybe I should paint the cow in the "cow on the track"
accessory blue also, and name it Babe. it's big enough.)))***


Hah! Good one Tom!!

Rick.





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Group: S-Trains Message: 22710 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: Re: 282/283
**((Now that I understand the hobby and the practices of ACG, it was obviously a leftover 282 which had its original number removed in favor of the newer 283, and its link coupler changed over to the new knuckle during that transition year. The number had been rubber stamped, and was a serif type, not sans-serif as on the production 283.))**

The 282 also came with a sheet metal tender or the plastic tender,.. link or knuckle coupler. My 282 is dated 1953, and came with the plastic tender, but still had the link coupler, which my dad switched to knuckle in '62 when I got the train.

Rick.



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Group: S-Trains Message: 22711 From: Rick Evans Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: No gig tonight,...but trains!!
Well another New Years Eve and no gig,....it was canceled!! I'll still thump the
bass though. And the good news is,...I'll be home to run the trains at the stroke of midnight!! Well, unless I get a better offer to go somewhere,..if not, I'll watch the ol' ball drop in NY and smoke up the living room with my 282!!!

Happy New Year to all!!!!!!

Rick.

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Group: S-Trains Message: 22712 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 12/31/2002
Subject: bubbling tubes
Hello everyone,

I was looking at the bubbling tube on my Checkerboard tower and noticed
that the top tip is red....yet the bubbling tube on my oil derrick is
clear or kind of yellowish.

Is the tube different for the Checkerboard tower? How about the water
tower with the" red shack top", does it also have its own kind of tube?
I need to buy a replacement, for a used and broken checkerboard tower
that I bought... must I order a specific tube for the checkerboard
tower?

Also, where can I order one from? About how much are they?

Thanks,

Wayne
Golden Spike Club